From owner-glass Fri Oct  1 04:06:07 1999
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From: "K See" <kseeglass@netzero.net>
To: "Glenna Rand" <gjr@bungi.com>,
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Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 06:39:01 -0400
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First I have to point out that I have not fused, yet!!
I just attended a seminar at Glen Echo MD  where a group of glass artists
shared what they learned/did at various workshops this summer. Two of this
group attended a class at Urban Glass, NYC which was conducted by Dorothy
Hafner. (do a search for her work, its fantastic)

They fused 6 layers of glass. This was done by fusing two sets of three,
then fusing these together. One of the things they were told to do was to
cut the third (top) piece of glass before fusing. This was to help with the
stress and also helped with bubbles.



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From owner-glass Fri Oct  1 04:25:53 1999
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Subject: Re: Vicki Payne TV Show - MY REPLY TO YOURS
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 06:40:06 EDT
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Mike   read it too and have to agree with Pam.  The remark was rude and crude 
which was my initial reaction.  Shirley
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From owner-glass Fri Oct  1 08:06:00 1999
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From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 10:12:19 -0400
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Cecily and Ralph Wood wrote:
> 
> Well...you want both!    (Yes!  Alright already, I am not a classicist and I
> cheat by using grinders and saws.  My cutting gets better and better, but I
> still use these new fangled things!  So there!   :-p  )
> 
> If you can only afford one now...get the ring saw because it is the more
> versatile (and about half the price of the band saw).  Because you can feed the
> glass into the ring saw from any direction, it is possible to make cuts that
> the band saw cannot.  The beauty of it is that the blade is a loop of round
> wire, with the cutting material (diamond dust I suppose) entirely surrounding
> all the surface so it doesn't make any difference if you push the glass through
> from front to back or vice versa, from side to side or somewhere inbetween.
> This makes it more responsive for small curves or dramatic changes in direction
> or when your glass is a shape that will not be able to be cut on the band saw
> because it bumps into the arm that holds the blade.  I almost never use the
> smallest grinder heads because I just touch up the little things with the ring
> saw, although I still use the large head on the grinder.  Another good thing -
> you can give yourself a whale of a friction burn but you can't cut yourself
> with a ring saw.
> 
> The downside to the ring grinder is that the grid top is very sensitive to heat
> and mine sags on both sides from being too close to a halogin lamp, so I have
> to be careful not to exert any downward pressure or I break the glass.  We've
> also found that because the grid top is so soft, glass scars and cuts it when
> you are pushing glass,  Then those cuts interfere with the smoothness with
> which you feed subsequent glass.  I also find it difficult to cut a smooth
> straight line.  It also cuts a wider swath than the band saw.
> 
> The band saw takes a smaller swath, and makes a far finer, smoother cut.  I
> think it is easier to control the glass, and it is possible to cut two layers
> of glass at once (if you can get them stuck together so they don't slide).  It
> also cuts much faster, although you shouldn't expect using a saw is going to
> significantly speed up your work.  Here the blade is flat, again made in a loop
> and the inside edge of the blade faces the inside of the loop, with the cutting
> edge on the outside.  You cannot make as deep or small curves as the ring saw,
> nor can you change directions at too sharp an angle.
> 
> Don't force the glass through any saw - let it set its own pace.  And DON'T
> forget to wear eye protection!
> 
> I have resorted to saws when cutting backgrounds of baroque or grained glass so
> that the flow of the glass from piece to piece makes it look as though you'd
> used one large piece (sometimes, indeed that is just what I've done).  They are
> also very helpful when faced with having to use every last bit of glass, making
> the placement of the pieces impossible to cut in the normal fashion.
> 
> Pamela Dimitrovich wrote:
> 
> > As always, I pose the question to the group to get feedback on products.
> >
> > Which is better and/or what are the major differences/positives/negatives of
> > a ring saw Vs band saw? I'm looking at a Diamond Laser 3000 band saw and a
> > Taurus II.2 ring saw.
> >
> > All diatribes will be welcomed.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Pamela

just as a side note..... IT'S NOT CHEATING.... that's all.

any new tool is simply an enhancement of the current craft. it all
depends on what your comparing it too.  are you comparing it to tiffany?
or to the old church windows. if it's the latter, is using a tungsten
carbide cutter cheating? or do you want to burn a string to get pieces
out. do you use solid colors? the old stuff were all clear colors. are
you using electricity to run you soldering iron? then your cheating, you
should be using a heated copper, to solder with. 

just because someone else does'nt use it doesn't make it cheating. i
don't use the kiln much. other's might use it to make their own shades
of glass with. or use sans carving, etc. never think of it as cheating.
if it makes you faster, more efficiant, safer, and so forth... it isn't
cheating....



---Mike Savad

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your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are
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From owner-glass Fri Oct  1 08:35:16 1999
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From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
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Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw (One Dawg's Perspective)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 10:02:23 -0400
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Dani Greer wrote:
> 
> Message text written by Brad Walker
> >Your
> comments may be correct for stained glass, but not for kilnwork. <
> 
> This is also very true.... you can use a saw just
> fine for fused work because stress fracturing is
> not as much of an issue... if at all.  I guess I should
> say for traditional panel work and lamps, saws can
> spell disaster.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Dani Greer
> Greer Gallery & Studios
> ----
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if it's designed right the bandsaw is not  a factor. i've seen many
architectural installations that have been cut in this manner. though
they may not have used  a bandsaw, they may have used a water saw. and
they saw no problems....


---Mike Savad

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Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
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From owner-glass Fri Oct  1 08:35:53 1999
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From: "Gregg Wood" <gwood@one.net>
To: "Glass @ Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw (One Dawg's Perspective)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:07:23 -0400
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From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
> they may have used a water saw. and they saw no problems....

Ba-Dump Bump.  
That's it folks, I'm here all week. Thank you and goodnight...

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From owner-glass Fri Oct  1 09:35:48 1999
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From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" <dimitrovich@twinwolf.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Comments to Bungi
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:30:57 -0400
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I just wanted to share a few things; about Vicki Payne, learning stained
glass, and a note to Bungi.

By watching Vicki Payne work - since I have not been able to get any
one-on-one instruction yet (class doesn't start for another 2 weeks), I have
learned some valuable skills.

I can now cut glass properly. (You all remember my first posts just a couple
of weeks ago - I was stressing!)
I can break out a score with my bare hands (I began using the running pliers
for nearly every one) I am not afraid of the glass anymore because seeing
how Vicki breaks it I was able to see proper hand placement and sort of
gauge how she did it. After my first try with my hands (eyes closed!) I did
it. Now that is how I break out my scores - with confidence.
I can use the breaking pliers successfully for those smaller areas.
I learned a lot about soldering. I identified what I was doing wrong. Now I
can make beautiful solder lines without rework. I am going to try out
decorative soldering today.
And many other techniques that I am refining.
I must say that I feel that I have caught on to this very quickly - like a
duck to water. Plus, with being able to buy all of the tools and gadgets I
want, it has made it easier for me.
So...
When I first joined Bungi I had the confidence to try teaching myself and I
did well enough to stick with it and now I'm addicted (just bought 300
pounds of glass yesterday!). But I can see how classes are invaluable - as
well as hooking up with others who do stained glass. For all those of you
who are very, very new to stained glass - Don't get discouraged. I am very!
new too but have made several projects that turned out very well. Only my
first piece was a disaster (very uneven cuts). I saved it anyway. Every time
I look at it I can see my improvement. With the proper tools and practice,
you too will feel confident and proud of your work.

I have always tried to design all my own projects - no matter what the art
or craft. I begin doing ready made patterns until I learn the mechanics and
engineering principles behind it. Once learned, I prefer to make my own. I
hope to expand my skills in glass and one day get into fusing, bead making,
and painting on glass. I love stained glass. It is a lasting work (just look
at all those old church windows!), it is breathtaking to view, it has a feel
like no other piece of art (I love touching the Yough glass - hubby is
quickly getting addicted to that glass too!), and with practice and
imagination the designs are limitless. (I'm saving my crate of Yough for
something really special)

I humbly bow in gracious thanks to all those Bungians who have been there
for me quickly answering my questions so I didn't have to stew in my own
stress about not knowing something. I know I always have a network of
friends ready and willing to help and offer advice. You have provided so
many wonderful tips and techniques as well as useful information. You are
wonderful!

Pamela



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From owner-glass Fri Oct  1 12:41:53 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 15:02:26 -0400
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Message text written by Mike Savad
>every tool in the box is helpful.<

Ha!  Most tools in any toolbox are
superfluous!  Go to a garage sale
sometime....  The best thing about
alot of those new gadgets is that =

they're making somebody rich... but
they're not making anybody a better
glass artist.  I may be old-fashioned, =

but until someone can prove to me
that I can make more money than I
am right now buying all those thingies,
I'm keepin' my cash in the bank!  And,
if you can prove to me I'll be a better
and more creative artist with all those
gadgets, then I'll spend the dough.  So
far, the only thing I would consider buying
that improves my job that they didn't have
in medieval times is a boom lift.... as Sparks
would say, POWER baby!!!  But you can =

keep the saws, the foilers, the grinders,
etc.  I'm doing an awful lot of good work
without them... and making a good living, too.
Life is good.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios =

http://www.igga.org/greer/
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From owner-glass Fri Oct  1 14:41:32 1999
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From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 17:16:52 -0400
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Organization: Mike's Stained Glass
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Dani Greer wrote:
> 
> Message text written by Mike Savad
> >every tool in the box is helpful.<
> 
> Ha!  Most tools in any toolbox are
> superfluous!  Go to a garage sale
> sometime....  The best thing about
> alot of those new gadgets is that =
> 
> they're making somebody rich... but
> they're not making anybody a better
> glass artist.  

>I may be old-fashioned, 

--yes--

> but until someone can prove to me
> that I can make more money than I
> am right now buying all those thingies,
> I'm keepin' my cash in the bank!  And,
> if you can prove to me I'll be a better
> and more creative artist with all those
> gadgets, then I'll spend the dough.  So
> far, the only thing I would consider buying
> that improves my job that they didn't have
> in medieval times is a boom lift.... as Sparks
> would say, POWER baby!!!  But you can =
> 
> keep the saws, the foilers, the grinders,
> etc.  I'm doing an awful lot of good work
> without them... and making a good living, too.
> Life is good.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Dani Greer
> Greer Gallery & Studios =
> 
> http://www.igga.org/greer/
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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from wahat i can tell, you make just church windows. in order to make
those, you don't need alot of creativity. church windows are chunky at
best. the only real creative thing that you need is the ability to
paint, and maybe see the spiritual side of things. 

church windows don't need bandsaw cuts, they are large pieces, slathered
in paint. they don't need grinding, because they are so large, and
becasue the are came'd. 

us the foilers - the creative ones :) - need the bandsaw, grinders, etc,
due to the many curves. and type of glass used. we use harder to cut
glass. unlike the church window cathedrals, which are quite soft. 

your looking at it from a very narrow point of view.


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making
your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are
also a lot of new Sky City pictures.
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From owner-glass Fri Oct  1 15:43:44 1999
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From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie_Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: FW: opinions
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 18:16:55 -0400 
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i'd suggest, when you've had a successful glass business that has been your
sole source of salary for quite a number of years, that you'd be competent
to state this. in the meantime, you're wrong, having personally seen what
they do and what they work with and on in their shop. have you?

you state the below as facts, without any basis at all. they are actually
your opinions, and are incorrect.

charlie
phx, az

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Savad [mailto:esavad@home.net] 
Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 2:17 PM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw


Dani Greer wrote:
> 
> Message text written by Mike Savad
> >every tool in the box is helpful.<
> 
> Ha!  Most tools in any toolbox are
> superfluous!  Go to a garage sale
> sometime....  The best thing about
> alot of those new gadgets is that =
> 
> they're making somebody rich... but
> they're not making anybody a better
> glass artist.  

>I may be old-fashioned, 

--yes--

> but until someone can prove to me
> that I can make more money than I
> am right now buying all those thingies,
> I'm keepin' my cash in the bank!  And,
> if you can prove to me I'll be a better
> and more creative artist with all those
> gadgets, then I'll spend the dough.  So
> far, the only thing I would consider buying
> that improves my job that they didn't have
> in medieval times is a boom lift.... as Sparks
> would say, POWER baby!!!  But you can =
> 
> keep the saws, the foilers, the grinders,
> etc.  I'm doing an awful lot of good work
> without them... and making a good living, too.
> Life is good.
> ----

from wahat i can tell, you make just church windows. in order to make
those, you don't need alot of creativity. church windows are chunky at
best. the only real creative thing that you need is the ability to
paint, and maybe see the spiritual side of things. 

church windows don't need bandsaw cuts, they are large pieces, slathered
in paint. they don't need grinding, because they are so large, and
becasue the are came'd. 

us the foilers - the creative ones :) - need the bandsaw, grinders, etc,
due to the many curves. and type of glass used. we use harder to cut
glass. unlike the church window cathedrals, which are quite soft. 

your looking at it from a very narrow point of view.


---Mike Savad
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From owner-glass Fri Oct  1 16:42:33 1999
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From: Joseph Augusta <jaugusta@capecod.net>
To: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
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Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 19:00:54 -0400
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Could we get some recommendations on the best (matter of opinion I know)
ring saw--with perhaps a website address to browse to?

Best wishes,
Joseph

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From owner-glass Fri Oct  1 17:00:28 1999
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From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" <dimitrovich@twinwolf.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 18:43:12 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct1.144312.0>
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Uh oh!   ;)

>Mike Savad wrote (to Dani Greer):
>from wahat i can tell, you make just church windows. in order to make
>those, you don't need alot of creativity. church windows are chunky at
>best. the only real creative thing that you need is the ability to
>paint, and maybe see the spiritual side of things.
>
>us the foilers - the creative ones :) - need the bandsaw, grinders, etc,
>due to the many curves. and type of glass used. we use harder to cut
>glass. unlike the church window cathedrals, which are quite soft.
>
>your looking at it from a very narrow point of view.
>
>
>---Mike Savad




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From owner-glass Fri Oct  1 17:11:19 1999
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From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: FW: opinions
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 19:27:00 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct1.15270.0>
References: <<1999Oct1.141655.0>>
Organization: Mike's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

Spitzer, Charlie wrote:
> 
> i'd suggest, when you've had a successful glass business that has been your
> sole source of salary for quite a number of years, that you'd be competent
> to state this. in the meantime, you're wrong, having personally seen what
> they do and what they work with and on in their shop. have you?
> 
> you state the below as facts, without any basis at all. they are actually
> your opinions, and are incorrect.
> 
> charlie
> phx, az
> 

there based on my skill as a stianed glass artistian. i know many
artists with successful businesses that use those tools. some might be
silly, i personally don't believe in foilers. but i do believe in
grinders and bandsaws. grinders allos for perfect fitting piece with
exact eveness. you can imidiatly tell who does'nt have a grinder when
you see these pieces. 

basically what you said in the second paragraph is an oxymoron. and what
your stating is fact? have you even tried these tools? do you have a web
site so we can see the work you do? 

you also don't know if i actually do this for a living. and regardless
your foolish for assuming it anyway. 

when a proffesional artist paints, is it ok to use a computer for
reference or help of any kind? the great masters never needed it, why
should todays artists use such things?

do YOU use an electric iron? or glass cutter? modern equipment? someone
who did'nt have it, and may still not use it may be posing the same
questions to you... 


---Mike Savad

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Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
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your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are
also a lot of new Sky City pictures.
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From owner-glass Fri Oct  1 17:17:57 1999
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From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: Joseph Augusta <jaugusta@capecod.net>
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Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 19:29:15 -0400
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Organization: Mike's Stained Glass
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Joseph Augusta wrote:
> 
> Could we get some recommendations on the best (matter of opinion I know)
> ring saw--with perhaps a website address to browse to?
> 
> Best wishes,
> Joseph


i don't know of any particular ringsaw or bandsaw site. i like the
ringsaw due to the reasons i mentioned earlier. the gemeni (sp) site
would have examples of the possibilities of this saw. the links are on
my links page 2 i think. and eventually i'll be putting my own review on
my page.


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making
your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are
also a lot of new Sky City pictures.
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From owner-glass Fri Oct  1 17:31:27 1999
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 16:51:08 -0700
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Precedence: bulk


Hey people ... simmer down. [You too Dani. <G>]

Glass saws exist.
Glass saws cut glass just fine.
Glass saws work.
Glass saws are not going to disappear.
Glass saws cut glass more slowly than regular cutters.
Glass saws allow you to cut some pieces more easily.
Glass saws are not going to replace regular glass cutters anytime soon.
Glass saws have their place.

Get over it.

JHC ... give me a BREAK.

[pun intended ... <smile>]

Regards to all ....... Bob [the younger ...   ;)]


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From owner-glass Fri Oct  1 17:41:21 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie_Spitzer@stratus.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: FW: opinions
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:43:51 -0400
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Message text written by "Spitzer, Charlie"
>i'd suggest, when you've had a successful glass business that has been
your
sole source of salary for quite a number of years, that you'd be competen=
t
to state this. in the meantime, you're wrong, having personally seen what=

they do and what they work with and on in their shop. have you?

you state the below as facts, without any basis at all. they are actually=

your opinions, and are incorrect.

Thanks, Charlie!  I always say a picture is worth =

a thousand words and you can look at a few
pieces of our work at http://www.igga.org/greer/ --
for all you oldtimers, haven't changed the site
in ages so you'll see the same stuff.... but, it ages
well! LOL.

Now, if you want to see some **really good glass,
each window with about a gazillion pieces, check
out medieval glass in any history book.  =


Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
<

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From owner-glass Fri Oct  1 17:53:24 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 15:13:01 +0000
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Back in UK after an eventful trip.
Missing you all!!
Kiln travelled too. Still to unpack.
Going to bed now
Talk to you all later.
Elisabeth 'n excuberant Toby in UK
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Fri Oct  1 18:06:53 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: E-Tour Finale (non SG ??)
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Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 01:10:16 +0000
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Hi everybody,

Friday evening, a couple of hours sleep, mert up with family and 
friends for an hour or so.

A telephone call arrived  a couple of hours ago:

Another little Old English Male Puppy HAS BEEN born about 2 weeks 
ago, reserved for Toby and Elisabeth.

I had hoped that a little companion would have been born in October, 
to rejuvinate Toby. The Deed is already DONE!!!!

Anyone out there in my wonderful s.g.  family in USA,  who can come 
up with a suitable NAME for the new "baby" .?????
 
Prerequisite: The Name HAS to have a USA connotation - to reflect 
these last 2 wonderful  months of the E-Tour.
REWARD!!!!!   To successful Candidate: Hospitality with Toby Tobias 
and "baby" in UK for 1 week + plus "nomination ceremony".
DEADLINE for receipt of "baptismal offerings": 15th October

Remebering you ALL!!!!
Elisabeth, Jenny, Toby ....and (nameless) new-born OES mutt ...;->>
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Fri Oct  1 19:11:48 1999
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X-Path: waterw.com!artglass
From: "pj friend" <artglass@waterw.com>
To: "Pamela Dimitrovich" <dimitrovich@twinwolf.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:49:22 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct1.174922.0>
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Church windows are chunky???  The only "real" ability??? uhoh is right.

pj

Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc.
www.waterw.com/~artglass
Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America
Member International Guild of Glass Artists
Associate Member AIA
-----Original Message-----
From: Pamela Dimitrovich <dimitrovich@twinwolf.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Friday, October 01, 1999 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw


>Uh oh!   ;)
>
>>Mike Savad wrote (to Dani Greer):
>>from wahat i can tell, you make just church windows. in order to make
>>those, you don't need alot of creativity. church windows are chunky at
>>best. the only real creative thing that you need is the ability to
>>paint, and maybe see the spiritual side of things.
>>
>>us the foilers - the creative ones :) - need the bandsaw, grinders, etc,
>>due to the many curves. and type of glass used. we use harder to cut
>>glass. unlike the church window cathedrals, which are quite soft.
>>
>>your looking at it from a very narrow point of view.
>>
>>
>>---Mike Savad
>
>
>
>
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Fri Oct  1 20:11:18 1999
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From: Hilary <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: NG: The Name Game
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 22:39:28 -0400
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> Anyone out there in my wonderful s.g.  family in USA,  who can come
> up with a suitable NAME for the new "baby" .?????
> 
> Prerequisite: The Name HAS to have a USA connotation - to reflect
> these last 2 wonderful  months of the E-Tour.

Geezzzeeee, this is too much fun! But October 15 doesn't give us much
time to play....

My first suggestion is Toity, in recognition of the un-use of one when
the grinder was needed. Toby and Toity has a nice ring.

It is very nice to have messages from across the pond coming to us. Your
conversation has been missed...well, at least by me! <vbg>

Love to Jenny and Toby and Toity and you!
Hilary
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From owner-glass Fri Oct  1 20:24:52 1999
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From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" <dimitrovich@twinwolf.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Tiffany Window
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 22:04:04 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct1.1844.0>
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If anyone has a book about Tiffany's windows, could you please see if there
is one that is a peacock (c. 1910)? If so, what is the original size?

Thank you.

Pamela


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From owner-glass Fri Oct  1 20:39:34 1999
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From: "Mary" <embee@mediaone.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw... ENOUGH ALREADY
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 22:38:01 -0400
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Why does it seem that any subject, whose answer is an opinion, rather than a
fact, ends up being a lengthy battle of words? These word fencings usually
go on until one side offends the other with personal attacks, resulting in
several posts calling the offender to task.
I hope this subject respectfully ends with all realizing that there are
those who love their saws, those who use them occasionally, and those who
see no reason to have one in the studio. All three opinions are valid, and
the person who originally asked the question can glean whatever information
he or she requested from all sides.
It gets tiring sometimes!
Respectfully,
Mary


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From owner-glass Fri Oct  1 20:42:27 1999
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>, Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: E-Tour Finale (non SG !!)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 23:26:50 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct1.192650.0>
References: <<199910020019.AAA30502@saturn.nildram.co.uk>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

To keep the literary naming of your critters (Tobias for Smollett?), how
about O'Henry, the American short story writer?  He it was who wrote the
incredibly sappy and unhappy story about the Xmas presents where the gal
sold her hair to buy a fob for her guy's watch and he sold the watch to
buy an ornament for her hair.  BUT he also wrote one of the funniest
short stories ever: The Ransom of Red Chief, about the kidnapping of an
innovative brat who brings the kidnappers to their knees.

For short, call him Henry but use his full name when full names are
appropriate: "Oohhh, Henry! - Baaaad Dog! :-(  "

(Our Toby was a cat, but our Henry was an American Cocker Spaniel, so
this is a tested name!  It works.)

I take it Old English = Sheepdog?  I always wanted a herding dog for
family outings - like keeping everyone together when we take
out-of-towners (staters) to Washington DC!!!    - Cecily (the Meredith
class in Aug)

Toby wrote:

> Hi everybody,
>
> Friday evening, a couple of hours sleep, mert up with family and
> friends for an hour or so.
>
> A telephone call arrived  a couple of hours ago:
>
> Another little Old English Male Puppy HAS BEEN born about 2 weeks
> ago, reserved for Toby and Elisabeth.
>
> I had hoped that a little companion would have been born in October,
> to rejuvinate Toby. The Deed is already DONE!!!!
>
> Anyone out there in my wonderful s.g.  family in USA,  who can come
> up with a suitable NAME for the new "baby" .?????
>
> Prerequisite: The Name HAS to have a USA connotation - to reflect
> these last 2 wonderful  months of the E-Tour.
> REWARD!!!!!   To successful Candidate: Hospitality with Toby Tobias
> and "baby" in UK for 1 week + plus "nomination ceremony".
> DEADLINE for receipt of "baptismal offerings": 15th October
>
> Remebering you ALL!!!!
> Elisabeth, Jenny, Toby ....and (nameless) new-born OES mutt ...;->>
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Fri Oct  1 20:56:59 1999
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From: Leslye Nelson <leslye2@earthlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 22:57:56 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct1.185756.0>
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I love my ringsaw.  I don't use it often, but when I need it, it is great.  I
highly recommend one.
Leslye



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From owner-glass Fri Oct  1 22:44:36 1999
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From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Joseph Augusta <jaugusta@capecod.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw  (quality and service)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 01:39:33 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct1.213933.0>
References: <<1999Oct1.15054.0>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

I may have seen an ad for something BIG (real table sized) that sure
sounded like a ring saw, but the only manufacturer I know  is the Gemini,
with the Ring Saw.  They make a I version where the top comes off the water
resevoir, and the II version where it is attached. but the I is far more
expensive (when you can get them - pretty scarce).  I just got an offer
from Gemini to upgrade my old II to the new version plus the attachments
(includes a lite that shines at the cutting spot - nice idea)!.  $150.  My
friend has dealt with them and says that they give very good service.  Back
when I was pricing it, it was about half the cost of the Diamond Tech band
saw.

(My friend Sallie has a studio, teaches a lot,  sells her students glass
and supplies, and also lets them come work with her tools on projects in a
sort of seminar mode, so she is always looking at new equipment before
recommending it to students, or to let them use or try before buying.  When
she has large classes I often help teach, and have several times taken over
when she has been sick..  Thus I've been lucky to be able to try a number
of different products and compare them.)

My band saw (Diamond Laser 3000) (great price used) is getting bundled up
for sending back to Diamond Tech International where they will refurbish it
for $75!  Diamond Tech has been very helpful on the phone.  My friend also
has one and concurs - their service is great.

Sallie also has a the cute red Diamond Tech band saw and we weren't as
happy with that one as their Laser 3000 - although it was good, did the
trick, and was cheaper.  I haven't tried the Inland one but Sallie is not
fond of it, and I'm a bit reluctant to buy the bigger Inland products
because of a bad experience dealing with them (got a lemon of a grinder and
it still isn't right after sending it back to them twice, where they
claimed nothing was wrong with it.  The shaft is so eccentric the large
flat wheel is totally unusable.).

I also have a small chop saw for dealing with zinc - awful stuff - and for
making wood frames - bought it after borrowing Sallie's.  It is a Gryphen
Miter Saw and has made life easier.  I haven't needed service so can't tell
you about it.  My friend also got one of the cute red Diamond Tech chop
saws, and it does the job.  We prefer the  Gryphen  one, though, because
you can screw the strip you are about to cut to the cutting guides, leaving
one hand to move the saw head and the other to hold the other end of the
material.  This is lacking on the Diamond Tech  The Diamond Tech came with
settings wrong so when assembled, it would have chopped the guides.
However Sallie said the phone support was excellent, and she had the thing
apart and together correctly in one phone call.  She has an old Inland saw
(looks much like the ones they are recently advertising) for cutting came
and wood, and it is built like a table saw, with the circular blade
extending up from the surface of the table (about the size of an
grinder).   Let me tell you, there was a reason for inventing the chop saw!

Hope this helps! - Cecily

Joseph Augusta wrote:

> Could we get some recommendations on the best (matter of opinion I know)
> ring saw--with perhaps a website address to browse to?
>
> Best wishes,
> Joseph
>
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


----
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From owner-glass Sat Oct  2 05:48:25 1999
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X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro
From: Carol Tombro <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>
To: Mary <embee@mediaone.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw... ENOUGH ALREADY
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 06:39:37 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct1.233937.0>
References: <<1999Oct1.18381.0@[207.126.97.2]>>
Organization: SBWSA
Precedence: bulk

I have to agree l00% with Mary.  This thread is old, old, old and tiresome.
Those of us who use a saw or a grinder are as much stained glass artists as
those who choose to do without.  It's a personal choice and no one should be put
down because they choose to use modern sg tools.  Let's give up on this one
because no one is going to back down on their opinions, nor should they, but
that's what they are; opinions only.

Carol T

Mary wrote:

> Why does it seem that any subject, whose answer is an opinion, rather than a
> fact, ends up being a lengthy battle of words? These word fencings usually
> go on until one side offends the other with personal attacks, resulting in
> several posts calling the offender to task.
> I hope this subject respectfully ends with all realizing that there are
> those who love their saws, those who use them occasionally, and those who
> see no reason to have one in the studio. All three opinions are valid, and
> the person who originally asked the question can glean whatever information
> he or she requested from all sides.
> It gets tiring sometimes!
> Respectfully,
> Mary
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Sat Oct  2 09:52:11 1999
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: NG Re: s*bscribe
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 12:26:04 EDT
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In a message dated 10/1/99 8:54:36 PM, toby@northlights.co.uk writes:

>Back in UK after an eventful trip.

Glad to hear of your safe arrival back home! Hope all your Viking 
accoutrements arrived safely too :-)

>Elisabeth 'n excuberant Toby in UK

I'll bet you didn't need a shower to wash all the travel grime off you 
(although you might have needed one to wash all the dog-sloober off you once 
Toby got done with you!)..........


Sparks
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From owner-glass Sat Oct  2 10:22:01 1999
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X-Path: mars.ark.com!wmunro
From: wmunro@mars.ark.com (Wayne Munro)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: directios for glue chipping?
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 10:05:20 -0700
Message-ID: <199910021705.KAA28910@ark.com>
Precedence: bulk

Hi gang...Norm Dobbins of Professional Glass Consultants has a kit with
directions for glue chipping your own glass for $34.95 US. His phone
is--505-473-9203 Fax--505-473-9218.
His web page is --www.etchmaster.com and e-mail is --etchmaster@aol.com.

Hope this is of help. I can scan the info page and e-mail it to anyone who
may want to look at it first. 'No Biggie!'

( Safety Warning!!!) "DON'T EAT THE GLUE!"

Bye for now......Wayne  


Wayne Munro 'Snail mail' address
2960 Suffield Road,
Courtenay, B.C. Canada   V9N-3V5

ICQ # 2762376
Phone and Fax-- (250) 338-5507  
 "Call before sending a fax so setup is complete"

----
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From owner-glass Sat Oct  2 10:36:45 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: Pamela Dimitrovich <dimitrovich@twinwolf.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Tiffany Window
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 11:57:35 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct2.75735.0>
References: <<1999Oct1.1844.0>>
Organization: Mike's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

Pamela Dimitrovich wrote:
> 
> If anyone has a book about Tiffany's windows, could you please see if there
> is one that is a peacock (c. 1910)? If so, what is the original size?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Pamela
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


ahh found it - 111 1/2" x 29 3/4" c. 1912


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making
your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are
also a lot of new Sky City pictures.
----
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From owner-glass Sat Oct  2 10:52:03 1999
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X-Path: mars.ark.com!wmunro
From: wmunro@mars.ark.com (Wayne Munro)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Vicki Payne TV Show - MY REPLY TO YOURS
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 10:14:18 -0700
Message-ID: <199910021714.KAA29540@ark.com>
Precedence: bulk


>
>Good for you, girl! As a matter of fact, Mike, I care too as I liked
watching her as well. It was a good question, even glass related, (unlike
'who cares?') In my book, that is 2 votes to your 1 and even in your
country, you lose!   
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Mike Figgy <mfig@netcom.ca>
>>To: Dimitrovich <dimitrovich@twinwolf.net>; glass@bungi.com
>><glass@bungi.com>
>>Date: Thursday, September 30, 1999 9:00 PM
>>Subject: Re: Vicki Payne TV Show - Flint, Michigan
>>
>>>Who cares?
>>
>>Mike,
>>That wasn't very nice. Everyone has different opinions and being a part of a
>>group should allow for those differences without put downs. I asked the
>>question because I wanted to know the answer. You didn't need to reply if
>>that is how you feel  - especially in that fashion. As a matter of fact, I
>>care. Vicki Payne was nice enough to mail me 3 of her videos - for free, out
>>of the kindness of her heart; to help me see how some basic techniques are
>>performed. I really appreciated that and it has helped me tremendously in
>>learning how to work with stained glass. She did this for me simply because
>>I had sent her an email inquiring as to when her program may be broadcast in
>>my area. I happened to mention that I was experiencing some frustration in
>>cutting and she replied with "help is on the way". 2 days later her videos
>>arrived. So, in answer to your question of "who cares?" - I do! Remember
>>that when you reply to people's questions like that, you keep the lurkers
>>lurking and may even cause others to unsubscribe - which would be a shame.
>>
>>By the way, thank you to those of you who did actually answer my question. I
>>appreciate it as I do all the replies that I receive from the group.
>>
>>Pamela
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Mike Figgy <mfig@netcom.ca>
>>To: Dimitrovich <dimitrovich@twinwolf.net>; glass@bungi.com
>><glass@bungi.com>
>>Date: Thursday, September 30, 1999 9:00 PM
>>Subject: Re: Vicki Payne TV Show - Flint, Michigan
>>
>>
>>>Who cares?
>>>From: Dimitrovich <dimitrovich@twinwolf.net>
>>>To: <glass@bungi.com>
>>>Sent: September 29, 1999 7:40 PM
>>>Subject: Vicki Payne TV Show - Flint, Michigan
>>>
>>>
>>>> I just found out we have Flint PBS on our cable here in the Detroit area.
>>>> Does anyone in the Flint, Michigan area know when "Stained Glass with
>>>Vicki Payne" is on?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Pamela
>>
>>
>>
>>----
>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>
>>
>


Wayne Munro 'Snail mail' address
2960 Suffield Road,
Courtenay, B.C. Canada   V9N-3V5

ICQ # 2762376
Phone and Fax-- (250) 338-5507  
 "Call before sending a fax so setup is complete"

----
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From owner-glass Sat Oct  2 16:59:34 1999
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X-Path: capecod.net!jaugusta
From: Joseph Augusta <jaugusta@capecod.net>
To: glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Hot wire cutting?
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 19:21:32 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct2.152132.0>
Precedence: bulk

I was down in the neon studio this afternoon and remembered that we have
a glass cutter down there we use for difficult cuts.  It's a small  loop
of nichrome wire, connected to a power source--the loop is flexible and
fits right over the glass tubing.  You score the glass with a file, then
fit the loop over the tubing, turn on the electricity and click! A
perfect cut!  Wouldn't this work with flat glass--especially with
difficult cuts?

Best wishes,
Joseph

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From owner-glass Sat Oct  2 22:01:35 1999
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: moswoodmountainltd.com!Pam
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <Pam@moswoodmountainltd.com>
To: Elisabeth <toby@northlights.co.uk>, "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: E-Tour Website Update & participant comments
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 21:40:55 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct2.144055.0>
Organization: MM Ltd.
Precedence: bulk

To: Bungians, Kris and Elisabeth,

The E-Tour Website has received a face lift! It is now an archive for
bungians to refer too but better yet is a great marketing tool for
Elisabeth to use in the future. I have added photos from Gene's, am
working on the photos that Dani took and also some others.

I am also asking all of you who had the opportunity to meet or
participate in the workshops to send me a brief email telling me about
your experience. I would like to include participant comments in her
site so be as detailed as possible but also brief in your reply to me
please.

I believe all who met Elisabeth will surely agree that she is truly one
in a million and everything I ever expected and more. And I will say
this, the unity of the bungians that I had the pleasure to meet was
exceptional.

Oh and Elisabeth the photos on disc I had no idea who anybody was :) I
know, you had the sticky note attached but it must have gotten lost
someplace! So if all of you would go to the workshop highlight area at
the site and browse under Gene's please let me know who you are!
http://members.xoom.com/GlassArt1/index.html

Sincerely,

Pam



--

Ms. Pamela Burns-Tappan
Moswood Mountain Ltd.
http://www.moswoodmountainltd.com


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From owner-glass Sat Oct  2 22:31:43 1999
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X-Path: moswoodmountainltd.com!Pam
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <Pam@moswoodmountainltd.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Apprenticeship Position Ohio
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 21:50:41 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct2.145041.0>
Organization: MM Ltd.
Precedence: bulk

Hello all,

Anyone have a position open in or around Bridgeport Ohio?

Thanks,

Pam



--

Ms. Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director
The Stained Glass Artists
A Division of: Moswood Mountain Ltd.
http://www.moswoodmountainltd.com


----
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From owner-glass Sun Oct  3 00:05:49 1999
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X-Path: clnotesszc1.computerland.pl!naipaiseu24
From: naipaiseu24@clnotesszc1.computerland.pl (foiserw)
To: naipaiseu24@clnotesszc1.computerland.pl
Subject: find your unreached... internet--leads
Summary: Authenticated sender is <naipaiseu24@clnotesszc1.computerland.pl>
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 11:48:36 +0500
Message-ID: <19991002681CAA55672@deosie.samtel.ru>
Precedence: bulk


 IS YOUR MARKET BEING REACHED OR LIMITED BY:

   * Geographic boundaries or location
   * lack of NEW leads
   * lack of NEW exposure

 There are over 60 million Internet users with thousands
 joining each day. Have you reached them?

 DO YOU BELIEVE YOU HAVE A VIABLE PRODUCT OR SERVICE ?

 Did you know that there is a method of marketing that costs pennies
 but have the same effect as direct postal mail? This can be made 
 possible through recent Internet technology breakthroughs. You can 
 now compete with the big boys, with exposure in MASSIVE NUMBERS,
 without expensive investments such as those associated with
 television commercials, radio advertising, direct postal mail, or 
 telemarketing.

 THE SOLUTION - Direct E-mail Marketing

 Direct E-mail marketing is a proven method to reach a global market
 with a small investment. It is more advantageous than conventional
 marketing and the risk is minimal. The prospects are millions and can
 be reached for much less than conventional methods. We specialize in
 Direct E-mail and can send your Ad to thousands or millions of
 GENERAL or TARGETED leads, nationwide or worldwide.

 For details send a fax to  781..240..7780

 ** inlcude your   -name  -tel#   -email
 ** inlcude your   -name  -tel#   -email

 Reach em before competition does.......
      

----
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From owner-glass Sun Oct  3 05:09:40 1999
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	for rglass-42; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 04:45:32 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: capecod.net!jaugusta
From: Joseph Augusta <jaugusta@capecod.net>
To: Chris Kaiser <christkaiser@yahoo.com>, glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Hot wire [neon]
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 07:04:54 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct3.3454.0>
References: <<19991003023931.13019.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Chris Kaiser wrote:

> Hi Joeseph,
>
> I love and am totally facinated by neon! Please talk
> about it as much as you want =)....

Chris and others interested in neon---here's the best neon site on the
net:

http://www.neonshop.com/

Best wishes,
Joseph

----
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From owner-glass Sun Oct  3 06:10:56 1999
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	for rglass-42; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 05:49:42 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry
From: "Bud Britt" <computerministry@unitytustin.org>
To: <hotglass@list.bb.net>,
Subject: NON GLASS  Want a Refund on your Out-of-State CALIFORNIA DMV Smog Impact Fee ???
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 05:45:13 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct2.224513.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hello Everyone,

Mom gave me a cutting out of the paper today, I will put it in verbatim.

If you live in California, or have friends in California, this might be
helpful to you or them.


(Start of Article)

Orange County Register

$300 DMV fee on used cars thrown out

The Associated Press

SACRAMENTO -- A state appeals court Friday overturned the $300 "smog impact"
fee charged by California each year to hundreds of drivers who register used
vehicles they bought in other states.

Vehicle owners who have paid fees since September 1992 can apply for
refunds. The lawyer who successfully challenged the fee urged eligible
owners to file claims with the DMV as soon as possible.

However, the refunds are required only for those vehicle owners who apply
for them, the 3rd District Court of Appeal said.

Leonard Simon, and attorney for vehicle owners who filed the suit, said the
state would have to refund about $250 million if all eligible owners filed
claims. The fees totaled about $90 million in the most recent year on
record, or $300 each from 300,000 drivers, Simon said.

A 1990 state law authorized the $300 fee for California registration of most
vehicles that were last registered outside the state. The rationale was
that the new vehicles sold in California have to meet tougher emissions
standards, making them more expensive to buy and operate while reducing
health-care costs for all residents.

The suit was filed in 1995 by four owners of used vehicles.

Sacramento County Superior Court Judge Joe Gray ruled that the fee
discriminated against interstate commerce because it treated out-of-state
vehicles differently without justification. He ordered DMV to notify owners
who were eligible for refunds and establish a fund to pay refunds.


FOR REFUNDS

Information about filing for a refund can be obtained by calling (877)
SMOG-FEE toll-free on Monday or later, or by visiting

www.wyca.com

on the Internet where downloadable claim forms are available.

(End of Article)

So if you are in this bunch of folks (or know someone who is) who have paid
the $300 "impact fee", since September 1992, better get the process started
and file the claim form, and/or pass the information on to your California
friends.


Sincerely,
Bud Britt

computerministry@unitytustin.org


----
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From owner-glass Sun Oct  3 06:40:39 1999
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X-Path: mediaone.net!embee
From: "Mary" <embee@mediaone.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Frank Lloyd Wright Pictures
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 07:19:57 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct3.31957.0>
Precedence: bulk

Does anyone know of a site that shows examples of Frank Lloyd Wright stained
glass? I have a client who is interested in a large window based on his
designs, so even if it is a pattern, that would be fine. I will alter it to
suit her taste, but would love to be able to email some examples to her.
Thanks,
Mary


----
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From owner-glass Sun Oct  3 07:46:44 1999
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: island.net!seaspray
From: seaspray@island.net (synergyglass)
To: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: NG naming Toby's brother
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 07:17:04 -0700
Message-ID: <199910031417.HAA16902@mimas.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

>Anyone out there in my wonderful s.g.  family in USA,  who can come 
>up with a suitable NAME for the new "baby" .?????
> 
>Prerequisite: The Name HAS to have a USA connotation - to reflect 
>these last 2 wonderful  months of the E-Tour.

Woke up this am with the following names rolling around in my head...

Canyon (Yon for short...I think that's also Dutch for John).  How many times
did you fly over the Grand Canyon?  How long did Jenny vacation there?

Or how about Floyd.  You missed the real thing in Florida by just 2 days AND
puppies are known for their destructive abilities!

C.
Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

----
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From owner-glass Sun Oct  3 08:51:32 1999
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X-Path: home.com!kristc
From: "Kris" <kristc@home.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: E-Tour Website Update & participant comments
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 10:56:16 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct3.65616.0>
References: <<1999Oct2.144055.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Is this for me? I did not get to meet Elisabeth. She stayed with Lee Boe and
Lee didn't call me, didn't even have me over for five minutes. I'm still
very hurt and angry, had been so looking forward to it for many months. I'm
only minutes away and Janice could practically walk there. Neither of us got
to meet her :( If would have travelled to a workshop if there was any way I
could have afforded it but I couldn't, and there wasn't one in FL, and I
missed out. I'm sorry but that is all I have to report.....  :(

Kris


> To: Bungians, Kris and Elisabeth,
 <snip>
> I am also asking all of you who had the opportunity to meet or
> participate in the workshops to send me a brief email telling me about
> your experience.  >
> Pam


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From owner-glass Sun Oct  3 09:55:01 1999
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From: seaspray@island.net (synergyglass)
To: "Kris" <kristc@home.com>
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Subject: Re: E-Tour Website Update & participant comments
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 09:10:32 -0700
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>Is this for me? I did not get to meet Elisabeth. She stayed with Lee Boe and
>Lee didn't call me, didn't even have me over for five minutes. I'm still
>very hurt and angry, had been so looking forward to it for many months. I'm
>only minutes away and Janice could practically walk there. Neither of us got
>to meet her :( If would have travelled to a workshop if there was any way I
>could have afforded it but I couldn't, and there wasn't one in FL, and I
>missed out. I'm sorry but that is all I have to report.....  :(
>
>Kris

Kris

I'm very sorry you were disappointed that there was no workshop in Florida.
I know that this post probably won't help much, but here's a little
background.  People on the organizing team must have contacted at least half
a dozen studios and we couldn't find one single studio that was willing to
host a workshop.  So without a workspace things were pretty much dead in the
water.

I also know Elisabeth was exhausted when she left Seattle and probably
needed the time to recuperate and prepare for a hectic fall teaching
schedule when she got back to England.

Personally I do understand your disappointment.  After months of helping her
plan the etour my knee and hip were so sore I wasn't healthy enough to take
the Seattle workshop.  I did manage to get her down to Seattle (imagine
having a crazed Swede who's used to driving on the opposite side of the road
driving your truck for you!), but was unable to attend the workshop.  It was
up a flight of steep stairs.  Talk about disappointment.  

C.
Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net


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From owner-glass Sun Oct  3 11:24:05 1999
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From: "Kathy Mather" <katmath@hotmail.com>
To: embee@mediaone.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw... ENOUGH ALREADY
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 08:59:05 PDT
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Well said Mary, thanks!
                     Kathy


>From: "Mary" <embee@mediaone.net>
>To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
>Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw... ENOUGH ALREADY
>Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 22:38:01 -0400
>
>Why does it seem that any subject, whose answer is an opinion, rather than 
>a
>fact, ends up being a lengthy battle of words? These word fencings usually
>go on until one side offends the other with personal attacks, resulting in
>several posts calling the offender to task.
>I hope this subject respectfully ends with all realizing that there are
>those who love their saws, those who use them occasionally, and those who
>see no reason to have one in the studio. All three opinions are valid, and
>the person who originally asked the question can glean whatever information
>he or she requested from all sides.
>It gets tiring sometimes!
>Respectfully,
>Mary
>
>
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From owner-glass Sun Oct  3 12:24:02 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Mary" <embee@mediaone.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Frank Lloyd Wright Pictures
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 14:46:44 -0400
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Message text written by "Mary"
>Does anyone know of a site that shows examples of Frank Lloyd Wright
stained
glass? I have a client who is interested in a large window based on his
designs, so even if it is a pattern, that would be fine. I will alter it =
to
suit her taste, but would love to be able to email some examples to her.
Thanks,
Mary<

Just for everyone's information, the Frank Lloyd Wright =

Foundation has given license to Anderssen Windows to
produce and market numerous of the architect's designs.
The good news is that, at last price-check, they were
running about $135 s.f.  So, if you design windows in the
"Wright Spirit" without copying them, you can certainly be
competitive.  =


Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios

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From owner-glass Sun Oct  3 13:52:04 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!mbwalker
From: Brad Walker <mbwalker@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Frank Lloyd Wright Pictures
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 16:01:45 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct3.12145.0>
References: <<1999Oct3.31957.0>>
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Try the following.

http://www.oakbrookesser.com/flw.html

http://www.powerscourt.com/jmg/jmgallry.htm

http://207.175.11.28/glass2u/store/Deptwright.hmx?UID=29587%2D36244%2D1141&CID=

There are a lot of Lloyd Wright links at:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/1469/flwlinks.html#general

Hope one of these helps.

Brad Walker


Mary wrote:

> Does anyone know of a site that shows examples of Frank Lloyd Wright stained
> glass? I have a client who is interested in a large window based on his
> designs, so even if it is a pattern, that would be fine. I will alter it to
> suit her taste, but would love to be able to email some examples to her.
> Thanks,
> Mary
>
> ----
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From owner-glass Sun Oct  3 14:07:36 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu
From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Dani Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Frank Lloyd Wright Pictures
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 13:15:19 -0700
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>>Foundation has given license to Anderssen Windows to
produce and market numerous of the architect's designs.
The good news is that, at last price-check, they were
running about $135 s.f.  So, if you design windows in the
"Wright Spirit" without copying them, you can certainly be
competitive.  =<<

And you can look for the Anderssen brochure! No copying now! One nice thing
is that the Anderssen people are likely to have stock sizes made up in the
Orient. Any other sizes can come from you.

Bob in SOCAL

Ps: Met Kris, her hubby and daughter in FL a few months ago. A real treat.


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From owner-glass Sun Oct  3 15:52:59 1999
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From: "Mary" <embee@mediaone.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Dani Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Frank Lloyd Wright Pictures
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 17:59:09 -0400
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Thanks to all.. I think I have found enough information!
Mary Barry


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From owner-glass Sun Oct  3 17:23:24 1999
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From: "Claudette Jaramillo" <cpjaram@7cities.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Naming pup
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 17:18:55 -0600
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My nomination is "Grinder".  That way we can say that E. loves her grinder!
cj

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From owner-glass Sun Oct  3 18:25:13 1999
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Subject: Re: Naming pup
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 20:38:51 -0400
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>My nomination is "Grinder".  That way we can say that E. loves her grinder!
>cj

Oooh, you are wicked! :)
Suzanne

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From: "Mary" <embee@mediaone.net>
To: "Claudette Jaramillo" <cpjaram@7cities.net>, "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: NG.....Re: Naming pup
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 20:25:47 -0400
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Oh my gosh! What an adorable name!
Bravo!
Mary

> My nomination is "Grinder".  That way we can say that E. loves her
grinder!
> cj
>
> ----
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From owner-glass Sun Oct  3 18:54:40 1999
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X-Path: juno.com!mschatee
From: mschatee@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: E-Tour Finale (non SG ??)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 21:05:46 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Oct4.1546.0>
References: <<199910020019.AAA30502@saturn.nildram.co.uk>>
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This puppy name may be a little late, but how about Bungi!

Welcome back Elizabeth and Toby and whoever.

___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
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From owner-glass Sun Oct  3 19:29:41 1999
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Subject: Re: Naming pup
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 22:07:21 -0400
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> My nomination is "Grinder".  That way we can say that E. loves her grinder!

Love it, love it, love it!!!!

I remove Toity from contention, Grinder is a vastly superior name!!!

And! it gets the same feeling across!

Gee, Elisabeth, are you seeing a pattern here? Think we all caught on
that you aren't fond of the grinder?

Hilary
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From owner-glass Sun Oct  3 20:56:57 1999
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I second the "Bungi" name for the new pup!
Kauriee
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From owner-glass Sun Oct  3 21:09:09 1999
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Subject: Stained Glass - Sorta
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 23:26:46 -0400
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Hi Bungians:
Did anyone else see "Outer Limits" on SciFi tonight? (With Jeff and
Lloyd Bridges.) I don't know who played Jeff's wife, but it's the first
time I've ever seen a movie where an actor/actress made stained glass
for a living. Jeff played an out of work scientist, and his wife
produced stained glass art. There were some really nice pieces in it. 
Just kinda interesting. 
Carolyn
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Subject: Tutu =)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 21:01:48 -0700 (PDT)
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I suggested "Tutu" but never saw it come up...wonder
if my mail is being naughty again?
chris =)



--- Hilary <hilary@voicenet.com> wrote:
> 
> > My nomination is "Grinder".  That way we can say
> that E. loves her grinder!
> 
> Love it, love it, love it!!!!
> 
> I remove Toity from contention, Grinder is a vastly
> superior name!!!
> 
> And! it gets the same feeling across!
> 
> Gee, Elisabeth, are you seeing a pattern here? Think
> we all caught on
> that you aren't fond of the grinder?


=====

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From owner-glass Sun Oct  3 21:43:55 1999
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From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: Naming pup
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 20:32:57 -0700
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did you get down to San Diego and Sea World? How about Shamu (as in the
whale?) I think OES are the same color scheme....

Liz (not too good at naming pets as most of mine came with names and the
rest got named by other people before I could think of anything)
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From owner-glass Sun Oct  3 21:58:53 1999
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From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Backlighting a cabinet
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 20:56:53 -0700
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I know this is an old message, but saw these at the home show. And I've been
rather curious about these for glass applications for *all around* back
lighting.
This product is called plug and go, sof- touch flexible system, lighting
choice for architectural and feature focus.
It's indoor or outdoor lighting, bendable flexible solid PVC extrusion with
1" bulb spacing, over all 3/8" diameter. 20,000 hour average bulb life and
is repairable. Applications seem endless and will run (in Canada 5.00 a
ft.or prepackaged),
With 5.13 watts per foot, it's not throwing off alot of heat. 
For the layman it's just a plastic tubing w/ little lights spaced 1" apart,
can be stapled in place.
Cindy

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From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen)
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Subject: NG.....Re: Naming pup
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 20:57:03 -0700
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Well, I think the name will fit...considering what *Grinder* could do to the
furniture:)
Cindy


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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: non glass (my surgery)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 21:34:18 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct3.143418.0>
Organization: weaver51@teleport.com
Precedence: bulk

Went in the hospital on Tuesday the 28 for total hip replacement surgery.

All went ok......MAJOR pain. turned out to be even more of a task than the
surgeon anticipated as some parts had been locked up and immobile for YEARS.

Was set to be released on Friday, but due to the severity it was easily oked
to stay over one more day.
 Saturday worked out well, as Elaine was trained by the pt staff to be able
to assist me (heavily) in doing the exercises. From session to session (3x
day) I can see improvement.
I am dependent on chemicals to get the most out of the pt and most of the
normal things, eating, sleeping, moving around, dressing ALL have to be
planned carefully and I have to make the best of the time when the pain is
ebbing.
Perhaps after a few month this will only be a memory...but from a recent
participant pain has been present most of the time (perhaps not from an
arthritic joint), but from muscles, tendons, and other body parts that have
not stretched in years.

That is all the energy I have for now, so............enjoy, H
weaver51@teleport.com
Elaine and Howard
best lamps on the "net":
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard

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From owner-glass Sun Oct  3 22:29:14 1999
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X-Path: bungi.com!gjr
From: Glenna Rand <gjr@bungi.com>
To: mschatee@juno.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: E-Tour Finale (non SG ??)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 21:15:09 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct3.14159.0>
References: <<1999Oct4.1546.0>>
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mschatee@juno.com wrote:
> 
> This puppy name may be a little late, but how about Bungi!
> 
> Welcome back Elizabeth and Toby and whoever.


I'm in favor!  Would this make me an Auntie?  "^)

Glenna Rand
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From owner-glass Sun Oct  3 23:02:45 1999
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X-Path: cs.com!RCall10713
From: RCall10713@cs.com
To: embee@mediaone.net, glass@bungi.com, GreerStudios@compuserve.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Frank Lloyd Wright Pictures
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 01:20:39 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Oct4.52039.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,

Just a word of caution. Be certain that you use the words "inspired by the, 
or a, design of Frank Lloyd Wright. The name is copyrighted, but the designs 
are not.

I have done several FLW "inspired" panels and lamps. Patterns, which I have 
used, and highly recommend are done by Dennis Casey, in No. California. Don't 
have the rest of his info, just now, but I'll look it up. when in the shop 
tomorrow. His books explain the cautionary needs, as well.

Richard
Glassics Artglass
Valencia, CA
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From owner-glass Sun Oct  3 23:31:28 1999
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X-Path: neuron3.psych.ubc.ca!teso25
From: teso25@neuron3.psych.ubc.ca (kisoek)
To: teso25@neuron3.psych.ubc.ca
Subject: happy columbus day
Summary: Authenticated sender is <teso25@cortex.psych.ubc.ca>
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 13:51:34 +0800
Message-ID: <199910031426WAA42057@kisoek.wise.net.my>
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happy columbus day 0

happy columbus day 0

happy columbus d
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From owner-glass Mon Oct  4 00:06:38 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu
From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: <kbang@loop.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Kiln class project
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 23:25:23 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct3.162523.0>
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>>I have no experience in working with glass ( I am relying on information
from
more experienced persons). Could you explain fusing to me in more lay terms?
What is stringer, what kind of plaque (material) would it be placed upon?

The students will be looking at images of work by Dale Chihuly.<<

I do not see much in common between blown (Chihuly) and fused glass. It is
sort of like comparing horses and anteaters because they are both mammals.

The Spectrum Glass Company site http://www.spectrumglass.com is excellent
for making the mysteries of fused glass clear. I recommend you review this
site.

Stringer is thin rods of glass that may be broken between the fingers into
lessor lengths. By plague I mean a piece of colored glass about 8 by 10
inches that the stringer pieces could be fused to. This would make a project
about as simple as one can get without getting into problem areas.

Bob

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From owner-glass Mon Oct  4 01:09:25 1999
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From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Frank Lloyd Wright Pictures
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 00:24:03 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct3.17243.0>
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Go to: http://builderremodeler.andersenwindows.com/WhatsNew/np9.stm to see
line drawings of the four Frank Loyd Wright windows that Andersen Windows is
offering. Frankly, these designs leave me cold.

Bob in SOCAL

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From owner-glass Mon Oct  4 05:03:18 1999
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From: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
To: RCall10713@cs.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Frank Lloyd Wright Pictures
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 04:28:59 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct3.212859.0>
References: <<1999Oct4.52039.0>>
Precedence: bulk



RCall10713@cs.com wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Just a word of caution. Be certain that you use the words "inspired by the,
> or a, design of Frank Lloyd Wright. The name is copyrighted, but the designs
> are not.
>
> I have done several FLW "inspired" panels and lamps. Patterns, which I have
> used, and highly recommend are done by Dennis Casey, in No. California. Don't
> have the rest of his info, just now, but I'll look it up. when in the shop
> tomorrow. His books explain the cautionary needs, as well.

I put all the FLW-inspired stuff into a series.

TheWrightStuff_1
TheWrightStuff_2
TheWrightStuff_3
and so on.

Gets the point across to those who know who FLW is in the first place (a smaller
number than his fans might think) without getting into infringement issues.

I mostly do my own designs so there aren't many "inspired by" pieces of FLW or
anybody else.

Other people might consider a similar dodge. <G>

Copying one of his pieces directly will get you into trouble ... so its best to
CYA.  From all reports (I've not had any run-in's with them myself) FLW's estate
is quite proactive in "protecting" Wrights designs and ideas, and they don't
appear to be of sound mind and body at the 100% level ... of course money would
have NOTHING whatsoever to do with this <G>.  Word to the wise.

Regards ..... Bob


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From owner-glass Mon Oct  4 05:26:01 1999
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X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones
From: "B. S. Jones" <b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk>
To: 'Joseph Augusta' <jaugusta@capecod.net>, "'glass@bungi.com'"
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Hot wire cutting?
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:27:13 +0100 
Message-ID: <1999Oct4.132713.0>
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Subject: Hot wire cutting?


I was down in the neon studio this afternoon and remembered that we have
a glass cutter down there we use for difficult cuts.  It's a small  loop
of nichrome wire, connected to a power source--the loop is flexible and
fits right over the glass tubing.  You score the glass with a file, then
fit the loop over the tubing, turn on the electricity and click! A
perfect cut!  Wouldn't this work with flat glass--especially with
difficult cuts?

Best wishes,
Joseph

This was the method I was taught years ago in labs to cut off glass tubing.
The score makes the breakage path (you hope) and the hot wire causes thermal
expansion stress in the glass and causes the break. It was done this way for
safety reasons as it was a very controlled way of breaking the tube. Doing
it by hand you risked a nasty dangerous break or so I was told. I think the
problem is how would you put the hot wire on the line of the score.I must
admit that I do not have the foggiest idea of whether it would work or not
so I am just waffling here.

Brandon (UK)
 
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From owner-glass Mon Oct  4 06:09:59 1999
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X-Path: ezl.com!stepsue
From: Sue Prullage <stepsue@ezl.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Which burner to buy for beads
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 06:55:25 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Oct4.05525.0>
Organization: stainedglassdesign.com
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I want to start making beads.  When I looked at the equipment I was
unsure which burner I would need.  When I took the class on beads we
used the major burner, but is this really necessary?  I was intriqued by
the hot head which attached to a gas that did not need O2 mixed into
it.  Is this a good thing or should I just bite the bullet and go for
the most expensive burner.  Thanks ahead of time. 
Sue
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From owner-glass Mon Oct  4 09:03:42 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!mbwalker
From: Brad Walker <mbwalker@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Hot wire cutting?
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:08:33 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct4.7833.0>
References: <<1999Oct4.132713.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Those hot wire cutters work well for neon because the glass is thin and the wire
totally encircles the tube.  It's not generally used for solid rods because the
crack wouldn't necessarily break the way you want it to (if it broke through at
all).  I'd think that using a hot wire cutter for cutting flat glass would be
difficult because the glass can be thicker and the wire might even have to
somehow wrap its way around the entire piece.  It'd also be awkward for
difficult cuts because the wire would have to be shaped somehow, then held
exactly in place on a previously made score .  Besides, the technology already
exists to cut flat glass with steel, with diamonds, with lasers, and with jets
of water.  This might be a better mouse trap, but I'm not smart enough to figure
out how to get it to work.

Intriguing thought, though....

"B. S. Jones" wrote:

> Subject: Hot wire cutting?
>
> I was down in the neon studio this afternoon and remembered that we have
> a glass cutter down there we use for difficult cuts.  It's a small  loop
> of nichrome wire, connected to a power source--the loop is flexible and
> fits right over the glass tubing.  You score the glass with a file, then
> fit the loop over the tubing, turn on the electricity and click! A
> perfect cut!  Wouldn't this work with flat glass--especially with
> difficult cuts?
>
> Best wishes,
> Joseph
>
> This was the method I was taught years ago in labs to cut off glass tubing.
> The score makes the breakage path (you hope) and the hot wire causes thermal
> expansion stress in the glass and causes the break. It was done this way for
> safety reasons as it was a very controlled way of breaking the tube. Doing
> it by hand you risked a nasty dangerous break or so I was told. I think the
> problem is how would you put the hot wire on the line of the score.I must
> admit that I do not have the foggiest idea of whether it would work or not
> so I am just waffling here.
>
> Brandon (UK)
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Mon Oct  4 09:33:25 1999
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X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye
From: "Kaye Sodt" <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: NG:  Puppy Names
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:34:54 CST 6CDT
Message-ID: <199910041536.KAA24448@relay.acns.nwu.edu>
Organization: GSA-ORSP
Precedence: bulk

The two that occur right off the top of my head:

How about Warner, or Charlie?

Or Louis (Louie) for LCT?

Kaye
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From owner-glass Mon Oct  4 10:10:47 1999
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X-Path: ceps.nasm.edu!jellison
From: PJ Jellison <jellison@ceps.nasm.edu>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Naming pup (NG)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 12:26:46 -0400
Message-ID: <37F8D531.BC462037@ceps.nasm.edu>
References: <<1999Oct7.133257.0>>
Organization: Smithsonian Institution
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The first name that came to my mind is "Yough"
(pronounce it Yokk) -- like the glass -- it's what 
Pittsburghers call the eponymous Youghiogheny River.  

But I like "Bungi" too!

Cheers,
PJ Jellison
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From owner-glass Mon Oct  4 11:09:22 1999
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From: NEICYDENN@aol.com
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: eagle pattern
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 13:20:36 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Oct4.172036.0>
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Does anyone know of any websites that have pictures of eagle heads? I have 
found several books on the net that contain eagles, but they don't show 
pictures.
thanks in advance,
denise
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From owner-glass Mon Oct  4 11:39:44 1999
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From: "Soraya" <soraya@cros.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: eagle pattern
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 14:22:52 -0400
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> Does anyone know of any websites that have pictures of eagle heads? I have
> found several books on the net that contain eagles, but they don't show
> pictures

If you are looking for just pictures of ealges....and not patterns...try
www.eagles.org

Soraya

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From owner-glass Mon Oct  4 11:59:53 1999
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From: "Northernlights (Tracy Reitmann)" <Northernlights@pobox.com>
To: Kaye Sodt <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>
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Subject: Re: NG:  Puppy Names
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 12:45:37 -0500
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There's always Tutu.  :>

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From owner-glass Mon Oct  4 12:10:27 1999
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From: "Taminah Gallery" <taminah@xmission.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 13:12:48 -0600
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF0E6A.27EC8F00
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Taminah Gallery, Is currently seeking Artist working in fine art glass,=20
Taminah Gallery is Located in Park City, Utah. Park City is an =
internationly acclaimed ski resort and home to many of the events for =
the 2002 Winter Olympic Games. The Gallery Features work by some of the =
nations finest Artist a Partial list of Artist includes, Painters Zhang =
Wen Xin,Dean Mitchell, Jim  Wilcox.Sculptors Sandy Scott and Richard =
McDonald Please mail Photos or slides of work with artist info and =
Resume along with a stamed returned envelupe      to Douglas John Mathis =
c/o Taminah Gallery PO Box 2342 Park City UT 84060 Thank you Doug Mathis =


------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF0E6A.27EC8F00
Content-Type: text/html;
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Taminah Gallery, Is currently =
seeking Artist=20
working in fine art glass,&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Taminah Gallery is Located in Park =
City, Utah.=20
Park City is an internationly acclaimed ski resort and home to many of =
the=20
events for the 2002 Winter Olympic Games. The Gallery Features work by =
some of=20
the nations finest Artist a Partial list of Artist includes, Painters =
Zhang Wen=20
Xin,Dean Mitchell, Jim&nbsp; Wilcox.Sculptors Sandy Scott and Richard =
McDonald=20
Please mail Photos or slides of work with artist info and Resume along =
with a=20
stamed returned envelupe&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; to Douglas John =
Mathis=20
c/o Taminah Gallery PO Box 2342 Park City UT 84060 Thank you Doug Mathis =

</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF0E6A.27EC8F00--

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From owner-glass Mon Oct  4 12:29:39 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Frank Lloyd Wright Pictures
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 14:56:29 -0400
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Message text written by INTERNET:RCall10713@cs.com
> The name is copyrighted, but the designs =

are not.<

If you ever have concern about this issue, contact
Bruce Pfeiffer at the Frank Lloyd Wright Foundation
1-602-860-2700.  He will be happy to tell you if you
have an issue with copyright infringement.  We are
particularly cautious since Wright's granddaughter,
Elizabeth Wright Ingraham, is a practicing architect
here in town!

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Mon Oct  4 12:43:48 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Frank Lloyd Wright Pictures
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 14:56:32 -0400
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Message text written by "Bob Duchesneau"
>Frankly, these designs leave me cold.<

They  weren't brilliant pieces of design to
begin with.... but they certainly architecturally
suited their environment which was the whole
point.... that the entire environment be integrated.
By themselves, they are as you say, somewhat
mediocre.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Mon Oct  4 15:48:49 1999
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From: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
To: Brad Walker <mbwalker@ix.netcom.com>
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Subject: Re: Hot wire cutting?
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 15:29:07 -0700
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Brad Walker wrote:

> Those hot wire cutters work well for neon because the glass is thin and the wire
> totally encircles the tube.  It's not generally used for solid rods because the
> crack wouldn't necessarily break the way you want it to (if it broke through at
> all).  I'd think that using a hot wire cutter for cutting flat glass would be
> difficult because the glass can be thicker and the wire might even have to
> somehow wrap its way around the entire piece.  It'd also be awkward for
> difficult cuts because the wire would have to be shaped somehow, then held
> exactly in place on a previously made score .  Besides, the technology already
> exists to cut flat glass with steel, with diamonds,

>

> with lasers,

Brad,

Lasers?

Got any references of commercially available laser-based glass cutting systems?

URL's, printed literature, company name ... anything will do.

I don't think this animal exists.

Bob

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From owner-glass Mon Oct  4 16:18:28 1999
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From: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
To: Joseph Augusta <jaugusta@capecod.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Hot wire cutting?
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 15:46:47 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct4.84647.0>
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Joseph Augusta wrote:

> I was down in the neon studio this afternoon and remembered that we have
> a glass cutter down there we use for difficult cuts.  It's a small  loop
> of nichrome wire, connected to a power source--the loop is flexible and
> fits right over the glass tubing.  You score the glass with a file, then
> fit the loop over the tubing, turn on the electricity and click! A
> perfect cut!  Wouldn't this work with flat glass--especially with
> difficult cuts?

Joseph,

This would probably work, but might be more trouble than its worth on flat
glass.  First you'd have to design a system where the heat from the nichrome
wire was evenly applied to the score directly on the glass at all points
along the score.  I rather suspect that the wire would have to physically
touch the glass at all points for even application of the heat; easy to
accomplish with a tube, not so easy (but not impossible) with a flat
surface.  The system would have to be "bendable" as well to accomodate
different curves; each cut would be different in artistic sg work.

I have no experience in neon tubes.

Tell me, when you use this method to cut neon tubes, when does it not work?
When does it screw up?  [Don't tell me it NEVER screws up <G>]

When it screws up, what exactly is the result?

Is this method dependent on having an even score?

Is this method dependent on having an even thickness of glass?

Is this method dependent on having a homogeneous glass composition?

Do you have to adjust the voltage/amperage and/or heating rate when you use
different tubes from different mfg's?

Routine questions from a person who is nothing if not analytical <G>.

Bob


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From owner-glass Mon Oct  4 16:40:54 1999
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From: barbara elmore <barbaraelmore@yahoo.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: warming-prior to patina
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:47:02 -0700 (PDT)
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Has anyone ever tried to "artificially" heat a
finished stained glass project of reasonable size by
placing it on, for instance, a heating pad prior to
patina?  I know that the patina works better when the
project is warm, but how do you KEEP it warm?  Copper
is a big problem for blotches, but goes on like a
shiny penny when the solder is still hot from the
iron!

Am I asking for problems using a heating pad? 

Barbara Elmore





=====

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From owner-glass Mon Oct  4 16:49:06 1999
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From: Joseph Augusta <jaugusta@capecod.net>
To: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
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Subject: Re: Hot wire cutting?
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 18:50:35 -0400
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rrk wrote:

> Tell me, when you use this method to cut neon tubes, when does it not work?
> When does it screw up?  [Don't tell me it NEVER screws up <G>]

It often doesn't work when the cut is too close to the end of the tube---say
less than half an inch.  The quality of the score isn't a factor, nor is the
temp. of the wire--in fact, there's no temp. control on the cutter.  It must fit
tite around the tube--there's a clamp-like connection to do this.  Neon tubing
is manufactured commercialy with precise tolerances in wall thickness, diameter
etc. as well as composition--generally, it's a lead glass mix, though soda-lime
glass is also used for the red, blue, green and yellow colors.

But I'll tell you ---when the nichrome wire cutter won't cut the glass, applying
some oral h20 in the form of spit to the score sometimes works!

Best wishes,
Joseph



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From owner-glass Mon Oct  4 18:21:46 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: e-tour finale
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 01:32:57 +0000
Message-ID: <199910050042.AAA30459@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
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Hi You ALL,

Oh! I DO miss you!!!
Day 1 of the "Real World"..... Yyyucckkk!!
First class a total chaos. Forgotten half the stuff to bring.
I expected beginners.... instead... the entire troup of last terms 
students turned up with eager and expectant faces.
4 beginners
2 from a mental handicapped residential home ( including Stephen - 
photographs of whom and his work I sowed many of you...).
3 suitcases unpacked... 5 still to go.

Am finding lots of YOUR wonderful offerings to me
I turn them over, ....and over.... remembering and re-savouring the 
moment you and I had; .... a little copperfoil mouse here, a 
beutifully tooled and varnished wooden brush stand there, a sea-shell 
elsewhere..... a piece of Freemont glass sample, some samples of 
dichroic glass carefully wrapped and packed in amongst soft & 
protective dirty washing, a little drawing....a copperfoil 
project..... a packet of special bisquits.... a blue plastic toy for 
Toby, a Fletcher brass cutter (WOW!!) a a spectacle repair kit, 
Lenore's sun-glass arm, a stitch-cutter from a hysterectomy 
operation, little glass rods, cascade and premier lead 
samples, pieces of rocks, a special T-shirt, stones, fossils, 
shells........ and many, many more  very individual little memories 
of YOU. I turn them over and over, touch them all one by one,  seeing 
you all right in front of me, hearing your voices,.....as I unpack my 
suitcases......

There were so many emotions exchanged when we met, that I was 
probably putting up a "stiff upper lip" face. Now - I'm on my own and 
unwrapping all these wonderful little keepsakes from you. I'm weeping 
buckets and have my ear twisted by Jenny to pull myself together. 
Hey, we had a wonderful time! I am still savouring every second of 
what we did, saw, discussed, argued and, worked together.!!!!!


"Thank You"

is hardly an expression I would like to  come up with...........what 
I    would prefer is to  be able to look forward to pick you up at 
"a" London airport and  spoil you as much as you have spoilt ME....
NOW!!!!!
Whenever!!!  And to give you a great big HUG!
My next task will be to get the UK bunginians to share and enjoy 
what you have treated me to, .... then my students.... then to..... 
wherever.    ....A wonderful prospect....
Thank You is a very narrow concept of what I feel of all the richness 
you have given me.
So just let's talk of what we can do NEXT........

Tomorrow..... unpacking suitcase No. 5.....and more memories.....

Puppy: GRINDER?! No Deal!!!!
Much Love....
..

Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

 (Tuesday NO teaching - Wednesday and Thursday 
next session ....)

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Mon Oct  4 19:52:58 1999
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From: Hilary <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: e-tour finale
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 22:31:38 -0400
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> Puppy: GRINDER?! No Deal!!!!


Geeeeezzzzeee, Elisabeth, you don't like Grinder? America is a
democracy. Can we vote? <vbg>

Suggestions from Philly:

Maxfield.  (As in Parrish)
Benjamin. (As in Franklin)
William. (As in Penn)


The list could go on forever, but none will be as good as Grinder (also
the word for a hoagie, submarine type sandwich. In fact you could name
the little tyke Hoagie or Big Mac or Whopper...but maybe that's way too American.)

We miss you too, Elisabeth. And lots of love to Jenny too. I'd like to
meet her dry sometime. <g>

Hilary
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From owner-glass Mon Oct  4 20:54:47 1999
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From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: e-tour finale
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 19:46:36 -0700
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Hilary wrote:
> 
> > Puppy: GRINDER?! No Deal!!!!
>
> 
> Suggestions from Philly:
> 
> Maxfield.  (As in Parrish)
> Benjamin. (As in Franklin)
> William. (As in Penn)


suggestion from Idaho (not quite over the state line to Spokane WA)

Buehner (as in Jay) also known as "the Bone" (what a name for a dog:))

Liz
> 
>
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From owner-glass Mon Oct  4 21:30:09 1999
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Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 22:38:11 -1000
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From: D Uyehara <mickeypalz@juno.com>
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>>> WARNING No. 1
>>> If you receive any CELCOM Screen Saver Pls. do not install it!!!!!! 
>=
>This
>>> screensaver is very cool. It shows a NOKIA handphone, with time =
>messages.
>>>
>>> After it is activated, the PC cannot boot up at all. It goes very =
>slow.
>>It
>>> destroys your hard disk. The filename is CELLSAVER.EXE
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>> WARNING No. 2
>>> Beware! if someone named <SandMan> asks you to check out his page. 
>DO
>>NOT!
>>> It is at  www.geocities.com/vienna/6318
>>> This page hacks into your C:\drive.DO NOT GOTHERE... FOWARD THIS 
>MAIL =
>TO
>>> EVERYONE YOU KNOW
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>> Warning No. 3
>>> WARNING: If you get an E-mail titled : "Win A Holiday" DO NOT open 
>=
>it.
>>> Delete it immediately. Microsoft just announced yesterday. It is a
>>malicious
>>> virus that WILL ERASE YOUR HARD DRIVE . At this time there is no
>>> remedy.Forward this to everyone IMMEDIATELY!!
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>> Warning No. 4
>>> If you receive an e-mail titled JOIN THE CREW or PENPALS,  DO NOT =
>open
>>> it!!!!!  It will erase EVERYTHING on your hard drive! PENPAL 
>appears =
>to
>>be a
>>> friendly letter asking you if you are interested in a 
>penpal.....but =
>by
>>the
>>> time you read this letter it is TOO late.  The Trojan horse virus =
>will
>>have
>>> already infected the boot sector of your harddrive, destroying all 
>=
>the
>>data
>>> present. It is a self-replicating virus, and once the message is 
>read =
>it
>>> will AUTOMATICALLY forward itself to anyone who's e-mail address is
>>present
>>> in your box!!!  This virus will destroy your hard drive and  holds 
>=
>the
>>> potential to DESTROY the hard drive of anyone whose mail is  in 
>your =
>box
>>and
>>> whose mail is in their box and so on and on!!!!!!   So delete any =
>message
>>> titled PENPAL or JOIN THE CREW this virus can do major DAMAGE to
>>worldwide
>>> networks!!!
>>>
>>> PLEASE PASS THIS ALONG TO ALL YOUR FRIENDS AND PEOPLE IN YOUR =
>MAILBOXES.
>>AOL
>>> HAS SAID THIS IS A VERY DANGEROUS VIRUS AND THERE IS NO REMEDY FOR 
>=
>THIS
>>YET.
>>> FORWARD THIS MESSAGE TO ALL YOUR ON-LINE FRIENDS A.S.A.P.!
>>>
>>
>
>--part1_b98c7e7b.25268816_boundary--

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From owner-glass Tue Oct  5 04:05:57 1999
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X-Path: arrakis.es!kiram
From: "Kira Mason" <kiram@arrakis.es>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Naming Pup
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:25:51 +0200
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------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BF0F24.619A3A80
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How about, Yankie, Uncle Sam, Triple S (for Stars, Stripes and Stained).
Kira
Madrid

------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BF0F24.619A3A80
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>How about, Yankie, Uncle Sam, Triple =
S (for=20
Stars, Stripes and Stained).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Kira</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Madrid</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Tue Oct  5 04:28:43 1999
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From: "Kira Mason" <kiram@arrakis.es>
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Hi,
I am a lurker and just received this message.  I live in Spain so =
hopefully it won't effect me but all of you in the States, I thought I =
should pass this on.

I try to minimize sending mass e-mails, but this one seemed to be =
horrendous
enough to pass on.

>> > THIS IS A MUST READ...AND PASS IT ON!
>> >=20
>> > =20
>> >=20
>> > Recently on Inside Edition there was an article
>> > about several new scams to abduct women.
>> >=20
>> >  In one, a man comes up to a woman in a Mall or
>> > Shopping Center and asks if she likes Pizza. When she says she =
does, he
offers her  $100.00 to shoot a commercial for Pizza, but they need to go
outside where the lighting is better. When the woman goes out of  the =
mall
she is abducted and assaulted.
>> >=20
> > Another ploy is a very nicely dressed man asks a woman if she would =
be
in a Public Service announcement to discourage drug use. The man
explains that they don't want professional actors or celebrities they =
want
the average mother to do this. Once she leaves the mall she is a victim.
>> >=20
>> > > >
> The third ploy, and the most successful, a very frantic man comes
running in and asks a woman to please help him, his baby is not
breathing. She runs out of the mall following him and also becomes a
victim.
>> >=20
These have been happening in well lit parking areas, in daylight as well
as night time, all over the country. The abductor usually uses a van to
abduct the woman.
>> >=20
> 'Inside Edition' set up a test in a Mall and 10 out of 15 women  went =
out
of the Mall on the Pizza and the PSA scam. All of them went out of the
Mall on baby scam.
>> >=20
> Please pass this along to your friends and family as now that it has
been shown on nationwide TV there are bound to be copy cats of  this.
>> >=20
>=20
>> A woman was shopping at the Tuttle Mall in Columbus. She came
out to her car and saw she had a flat. She got her jack, spare out of =
the
trunk. A man in a business suit came up and started to help her. When
the tire had been replaced, he asked for a  ride to his car on the
opposite side of the Mall.
>> >=20
>>Feeling uncomfortable about doing this, she stalled for a while, but =
he
kept pressing her. She finally asked why he was on this side of  the  =
Mall
if his car was on the other. He claimed he had been talking to friends.
Still uncomfortable, she told him that she had just remembered something =
she
had forgotten to pick up at the mall and she left him and went back =
inside
the mall. She reported the incident to the mall security and they went =
out
to her car. The man was nowhere in sight.
>> >=20
>>  Opening her trunk, she discovered a brief case the man had set
inside her trunk while helping her with the tire. Inside were rope and a
butcher knife. And, when she took the tire to be fixed, the mechanic
informed her that there was nothing wrong with her tire, that it was =
flat
because the air had been let out of it.
>> >=20
>> > > >
>> >=20
>> > > > PLEASE BE SAFE AND NOT SORRY! JUST A WARNING
>> TO
>> > ALWAYS BE ALERT
>> >=20
>> > AND USE
>> >=20
>> > > > YOUR HEAD!!!
>> >=20
>> > > >
>> >=20
>> > > > Pass this along to every woman you have access
>> > to. Never let your guard down.



   =20

------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BF0F24.BB88B080
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Hi,</DIV>
<DIV>I am a lurker and just received this message.&nbsp; I live in Spain =
so=20
hopefully it won't effect me but all of you in the States, I thought I =
should=20
pass this on.<BR><BR>I try to minimize sending mass e-mails, but this =
one seemed=20
to be horrendous<BR>enough to pass on.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; THIS IS A =
MUST=20
READ...AND PASS IT ON!<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp; =
<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Recently on Inside Edition there was an=20
article<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; about several new scams to abduct =
women.<BR>&gt;&gt;=20
&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp; In one, a man comes up to a woman in a Mall =

or<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Shopping Center and asks if she likes Pizza. When =
she says=20
she does, he<BR>offers her&nbsp; $100.00 to shoot a commercial for =
Pizza, but=20
they need to go<BR>outside where the lighting is better. When the woman =
goes out=20
of&nbsp; the mall<BR>she is abducted and assaulted.<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; =
<BR>&gt;=20
&gt; Another ploy is a very nicely dressed man asks a woman if she would =

be<BR>in a Public Service announcement to discourage drug use. The=20
man<BR>explains that they don't want professional actors or celebrities =
they=20
want<BR>the average mother to do this. Once she leaves the mall she is a =

victim.<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; The third =
ploy, and=20
the most successful, a very frantic man comes<BR>running in and asks a =
woman to=20
please help him, his baby is not<BR>breathing. She runs out of the mall=20
following him and also becomes a<BR>victim.<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; <BR>These =
have been=20
happening in well lit parking areas, in daylight as well<BR>as night =
time, all=20
over the country. The abductor usually uses a van to<BR>abduct the=20
woman.<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; 'Inside Edition' set up a test in a =
Mall and 10=20
out of 15 women&nbsp; went out<BR>of the Mall on the Pizza and the PSA =
scam. All=20
of them went out of the<BR>Mall on baby scam.<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; =
Please=20
pass this along to your friends and family as now that it has<BR>been =
shown on=20
nationwide TV there are bound to be copy cats of&nbsp; this.<BR>&gt;&gt; =
&gt;=20
<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; A woman was shopping at the Tuttle Mall in =
Columbus. She=20
came<BR>out to her car and saw she had a flat. She got her jack, spare =
out of=20
the<BR>trunk. A man in a business suit came up and started to help her.=20
When<BR>the tire had been replaced, he asked for a&nbsp; ride to his car =
on=20
the<BR>opposite side of the Mall.<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt;&gt;Feeling=20
uncomfortable about doing this, she stalled for a while, but he<BR>kept =
pressing=20
her. She finally asked why he was on this side of&nbsp; the&nbsp; =
Mall<BR>if his=20
car was on the other. He claimed he had been talking to =
friends.<BR>Still=20
uncomfortable, she told him that she had just remembered something =
she<BR>had=20
forgotten to pick up at the mall and she left him and went back =
inside<BR>the=20
mall. She reported the incident to the mall security and they went =
out<BR>to her=20
car. The man was nowhere in sight.<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; =
Opening=20
her trunk, she discovered a brief case the man had set<BR>inside her =
trunk while=20
helping her with the tire. Inside were rope and a<BR>butcher knife. And, =
when=20
she took the tire to be fixed, the mechanic<BR>informed her that there =
was=20
nothing wrong with her tire, that it was flat<BR>because the air had =
been let=20
out of it.<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; =

<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; PLEASE BE SAFE AND NOT SORRY! JUST A=20
WARNING<BR>&gt;&gt; TO<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; ALWAYS BE ALERT<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; =

<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; AND USE<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
YOUR=20
HEAD!!!<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;=20
<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Pass this along to every woman you have=20
access<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; to. Never let your guard=20
down.<BR><BR><BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BF0F24.BB88B080--

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From owner-glass Tue Oct  5 05:32:41 1999
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 05:11:48 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: ix.netcom.com!mbwalker
From: Brad Walker <mbwalker@ix.netcom.com>
To: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Hot wire cutting - lasers
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 08:12:27 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct5.41227.0>
References: <<37F92A33.87B959B6@pacbell.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Bob --

Oh, ye of little faith.....

Laser cutting research article at
http://www.laurin.com/Content/june99/techScoring.html

Commercial availability (Didn't know about this one until I did a search.
Admittedlly, they're only drilling borosilicate currently, but I'd bet that more's to
come.) at: http://www.laserage.com/drilling.htm

(Knew I remembered that Corning article from somewhere.  Amazed I could still find
it.)

Brad


rrk wrote:

> Lasers?
>
> Got any references of commercially available laser-based glass cutting systems?
>
> URL's, printed literature, company name ... anything will do.
>
> I don't think this animal exists.
>
> Bob

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From owner-glass Tue Oct  5 07:04:45 1999
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: icsp.net!rballard
From: rballard@icsp.net (Robin Ballard)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: Virus warnings...]
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 13:43:55 GMT
Message-ID: <1999Oct5.134355.0>
References: <<1999Oct4.74455.0>>
Precedence: bulk

A little research at Symantec's Anti-Virus Center
(http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/hoax.html)
revealed that all 4 of these are hoaxes.  Please take a few minutes to
investigate these types of e-mails before you forward them to the
list.

Thanks.
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From owner-glass Tue Oct  5 07:35:06 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com, Elisabeth -n-Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Naming puppy
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 08:55:35 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Oct5.35535.0>
Precedence: bulk

In keeping with the festive time we all had during the e tour, I think 
"Vinny" (vino personified) would be an appropriate name. :o)  

If he were a girl I woud vote for Margarita! :o)

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Tue Oct  5 09:34:06 1999
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:19:31 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Ali Casado <ACASADO@webtv.net>
Subject: Re: Cracked glass
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:17:00 +0100
Message-ID: <1999Oct5.18170.0>
References: <<1999Sep14.203722.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

Ali,
  You need to find the annealing temperature of the glass you are
treating.  There is an article on the archives which I posted some time
ago that tells you how to determine it.  Bob has good advice on the
archives on ramp temperatures and annealing, and good advice on rate
rises for glass draped on top of forms.
Steve

In message <1999Sep14.203722.0@?>, Ali Casado <ACASADO@webtv.net> writes
>Hi All,
>Hope someone can help me solve a mystery.
>I slumped a piece of 16x16 (I believe Armstrong streaky amber). The
>glass studio where I bought it wasn't quite sure.  I cut it into a
>circle by using a circle cutter, then tapping the score to remove the
>excess .  I then slumped the circle over a 7" stainless steel floral
>former.
>I ramped it up slowly (200' per hour) to 1175.
>Flashed vented, closed the kiln lid and let it cool slowly (approx 4-5
>hours) to room temp.  When I removed it, I was crushed.  On one side of
>this otherwise beautiful piece , was cracked from the bottom edge almost
>to the top.  You cannot feel it.  It is as smooth as the rest of the
>glass.
>Do you think the tapping could have caused a small fracture which could
>not be seen until after firing?
>I had already slumped 2 other pieces of glass on the same floral former
>(1/Uro the other Spectrum).  Same ramp speed; same temp.;
>same everything with the exception that I didn't cut them into circles.
>I kept them square, but slightly free-formed the edges. That was the
>ONLY difference and absolutely no problem.
>I hope someone can give me an idea of what the problem could have been.
>Thanking you in advance
>
>Ali =)
>
>----
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Tue Oct  5 10:10:55 1999
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X-Path: waterw.com!artglass
From: "pj friend" <artglass@waterw.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>, "Elisabeth -n-Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Naming puppy
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:43:13 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct5.84313.0>
Precedence: bulk

I think she ought to name him something like Union (it took a union of souls
to get her here) or how about Meric for America? Or, Lucky we are  lucky to
have met her.  Or, Amerix . Or, Fletcher as in cutter???  I got more!

my best,
pj (n mr. bean, anais, and tasche, her yorkies)



Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc.
www.waterw.com/~artglass
Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America
Member International Guild of Glass Artists
Associate Member AIA
-----Original Message-----
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>; Elisabeth -n-Toby
<toby@northlights.co.uk>
Date: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 11:00 AM
Subject: Naming puppy


>In keeping with the festive time we all had during the e tour, I think
>"Vinny" (vino personified) would be an appropriate name. :o)
>
>If he were a girl I woud vote for Margarita! :o)
>
>Suzanne
>----
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Tue Oct  5 10:39:46 1999
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X-Path: mail.bright.net!joyce
From: glasscc <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Websites
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 12:21:18 -0400
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19991005122117.007b21a0@mail.bright.net>
Precedence: bulk

Does anyone know of a website that shows a sample of Bronze GNA?  I'm
trying to describe this to a friend, and have tried searching for one with
no results.

Thanks in advance!

Garden of Glass
Joyce Moran
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From owner-glass Tue Oct  5 10:46:01 1999
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X-Path: island.net!seaspray
From: seaspray@island.net (synergyglass)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: what to do with plastic solder spools?
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:49:31 -0700
Message-ID: <199910051549.IAA06781@mimas.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all.  I've got several dozen of the empty solder spools hanging around
the studio, and they MUST be good for something but I can't figure out what.
Actually I went to recycle them and my depot doesn't take unnumbered
plastics, so I'm stuck with them.  I used one for spooling up my fine box
chain, but they're too small for larger chain.  

They make great cat toys. Yeah, I know they have lead residue, no need to
point that out.  The cat toy thing only happened once by accident.  

So what do all the creative bungians do with their spools?

C.
Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

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From owner-glass Tue Oct  5 11:05:56 1999
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: J B <Beadnik3@webtv.net>
Subject: Kiln characteristics (was Fusing Question)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:36:51 +0100
Message-ID: <1999Oct5.183651.0>
References: <<1999Sep15.18511.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

Joan,
  I'd say test it!  I have been in a hurry upon occasion and have taken
the shelf out at 200 C (ca. 400 F).  Hotter than that and you run the
risk of very serious burns through your gloves.  The cooling can be
speeded up from about 50 degrees C (100 F) below the lower strain point.
It is probable (although you don't mention anything about your kiln or
its natural cooling rate below about 500 C) that you could remove the
top entirely at lower strain point minus 50 C.

For others on the list - it is important to learn and record the
characteristics of your kiln and its heating and cooling rates.
To start this off I would suggest these are some of the things you
should know and have recorded about your kiln.
- hot and cool spots
- relation of the thermocouple temperature recording and the temperature
at the shelf at various heights in the kiln.  E.g. the glass is (or may
be) higher in the kiln when slumping than when fusing, so the
temperature is higher, as hot air stays near the top of the kiln; or the
kiln heats from the top down.
- temperature rise at various settings (if you don't have a controller)
- temperature falls from top temperature (with and without 1 hour holds
at the top)
- natural temperature falls through the annealing t4e4mperatures (ca 600
to 500 C, or 1250 to 950 F) with the kiln closed and with vents or lid
cracked open

These should all be recorded, and put into a from easily found when
needed.

Steve

In message <1999Sep15.18511.0@?>, J B <Beadnik3@webtv.net> writes
>After annealing, at what temperature is it safe to take the top off the
>kiln to allow pieces to cool more rapidly???  And, at what temp. is it
>OK to take the entire shelf out to make room for a new shelf full of
>stuff to be fired?  I am fusing very small pieces..... no larger than 1"
>X 2.5".
>
>Thanks.
>
>Joan
>
>----
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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X-Path: teleport.com!dro
From: "Daniel" <dro@teleport.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Naming puppy
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:48:18 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct5.34818.0>
References: <<1999Oct5.84313.0>>
Precedence: bulk

How about 

Liberty

===============

Daniel in Oregon

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From owner-glass Tue Oct  5 11:39:09 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu
From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Cutter help
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:53:31 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct5.35331.0>
Precedence: bulk

Here is an idea copied from the newsgroup rec.crafts.glass:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
BTW, a two-inch section of half-inch garden hose fits snugly around a Toyo
pencil-grip cutter and almost makes it easy to hold and apply pressure with.
I of course use a Toyo pencil-grip style cutter because it looks cooler and
costs more than those old green Fletchers with the convenient ridges. Works
for me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-

Bob in SOCAL

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X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu
From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Cracked glass
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:38:41 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct5.33841.0>
Precedence: bulk

>I ramped it up slowly (200' per hour) to 1175.
>Flashed vented, closed the kiln lid and let it cool slowly (approx 4-5
>hours) to room temp.  When I removed it, I was crushed.  On one side of
>this otherwise beautiful piece , was cracked from the bottom edge almost
>to the top.  You cannot feel it.  It is as smooth as the rest of the
>glass.

The flash venting may well have caused the glass to contract on the steel
mold before the steel had contracted and the crack was the result. Flash
venting should not be necessary for a slump that only went to 1175'F.

Even though the glass has folded it has not fused and so may be treated as
one layer of glass. Most kilns have a normal cooling rate that is adequate
to anneal one layer of nominal 1/8" glass.

Bob in SOCAL


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X-Path: twinwolf.net!dimitrovich
From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" <dimitrovich@twinwolf.net>
To: "synergyglass" <seaspray@island.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: what to do with plastic solder spools?
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:46:46 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct5.94646.0>
Precedence: bulk

Post a message to one of the craft sites. Those people can find a use for
anything and everything!

Pamela

-----Original Message-----
From: synergyglass <seaspray@island.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 2:06 PM
Subject: what to do with plastic solder spools?


>Hi all.  I've got several dozen of the empty solder spools hanging around
>the studio, and they MUST be good for something but I can't figure out
what.
>Actually I went to recycle them and my depot doesn't take unnumbered
>plastics, so I'm stuck with them.  I used one for spooling up my fine box
>chain, but they're too small for larger chain.
>
>They make great cat toys. Yeah, I know they have lead residue, no need to
>point that out.  The cat toy thing only happened once by accident.
>
>So what do all the creative bungians do with their spools?
>
>C.
>Carol Swann
>Synergy Glass & Creative
>www.igga.org/synergy
>seaspray@island.net
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


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From owner-glass Tue Oct  5 12:12:57 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: NG - shortcuts windows
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 14:18:19 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct5.101819.0>
Organization: Mike's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

does anyone here know of a program preferably freeware or shareware,
that will check all my short cuts, and remove the bad ones?

i messed up big time by deleting nonsense directories in the registry.
apparently if you erase those dir's, you also have to get rid of the LNK
files hidden throught the system. the machine keeps crashing. file
explorer doesn't open, norton crashes when it hit's one, the find
crashes... it's really getting on my nerves. 


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making
your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are
also a lot of new Sky City pictures.
----
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From owner-glass Tue Oct  5 12:36:23 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: what to do with plastic solder spools?
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 14:15:52 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct5.101552.0>
References: <<199910051549.IAA06781@mimas.island.net>>
Organization: Mike's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

synergyglass wrote:
> 
> Hi all.  I've got several dozen of the empty solder spools hanging around
> the studio, and they MUST be good for something but I can't figure out what.
> Actually I went to recycle them and my depot doesn't take unnumbered
> plastics, so I'm stuck with them.  I used one for spooling up my fine box
> chain, but they're too small for larger chain.
> 
> They make great cat toys. Yeah, I know they have lead residue, no need to
> point that out.  The cat toy thing only happened once by accident.
> 
> So what do all the creative bungians do with their spools?
> 
> C.
> Carol Swann
> Synergy Glass & Creative
> www.igga.org/synergy
> seaspray@island.net
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

i throw them away. 

1 spool has chain on it. another has came wrapped around it. 

i suppose you could wrap string around it for recycling or kite flying.
but other then that, they're garbage.


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making
your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are
also a lot of new Sky City pictures.
----
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From owner-glass Tue Oct  5 12:37:50 1999
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X-Path: ll.mit.edu!cogen
From: David Cogen <cogen@ll.mit.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Stainless steel and hot glass.
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:13:35 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <199910051911.PAA13475@ll.mit.edu>
Precedence: bulk

I haven't been a frequent poster, but I do value the wisdom here. I'd like to
get some opinions on this and share some experiences:

I have this kit for making glass cabinet knobs. It consists of stainless steel
inserts which are tapped with an 8-32 thread. This is screwed onto a mandrel,
then the knob is formed by lampworking, building up the glass knob around the
threaded insert. When the knob is finished, it anneals in the kiln, either
with the mandrel still attached, or quickly unscrewing the knob and insert
from the mandrel with gloves and/or pliers first.

We've made a couple, and they *seem* to be OK, but something doesn't seem
right to my scientific mind: Isn't the C.O.E. of stainless steel too different
from glass? Shouldn't something break, or loosen, when it cools?

We've been using borosilicate glass, but would also be using Moretti at some
point. 

Thinking I was really being clever, I tried making some inserts of my own, out
of brass tubing which I cut into short segments and tapped with threads. What
was I thinking? Temporary absent-mindedness; I should have realized that brass
melts at well under the working temperature of glass!


-- DavidC
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From owner-glass Tue Oct  5 13:46:53 1999
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X-Path: one.net!gwood
From: "Gregg Wood" <gwood@one.net>
To: "Glass @ Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: what to do with plastic solder spools?
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:03:31 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct5.12331.0>
References: <<199910051549.IAA06781@mimas.island.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Stack'em up end to end, wrap heavy guage wire around'em
hook'em up to a really big power supply & controller and fire
steel ball bearings through brick walls.  Well, it's what we did.

Maybe not what you had in mind?

> Hi all.  I've got several dozen of the empty solder spools hanging around
> the studio, and they MUST be good for something but I can't figure out
what.
> Actually I went to recycle them and my depot doesn't take unnumbered
> plastics, so I'm stuck with them.  I used one for spooling up my fine box
> chain, but they're too small for larger chain.


----
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From owner-glass Tue Oct  5 15:00:36 1999
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X-Path: yahoo.com!patrickkelly1
From: patrick kelly <patrickkelly1@yahoo.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: NG: Puppy Name & Special T-shirt
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:18:33 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1999Oct5.71833.0>
Precedence: bulk


I think the puppy should be named "Hornsby" because
"E" sprouted her horns when she was here. No
grinder....indeed.

I hope the "Special T-shirt" she is refering to is the
one that I gave her with my picture on it doing the
"Full Monty". It may not do much for her but it gave a
much needed breath of fresh air to parts that needed
it.

uh oh now I have two canines to watch for..... there
is something that is getting my shoe all wet...... get
away..... the pup is getting his revenge already. (8-)


PS. Glad you are home safe and sound "E". Who else
would I be able to pick on so much.


Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

 

=====

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
----
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From owner-glass Tue Oct  5 15:23:49 1999
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: physics of glass
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 17:23:13 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct5.132313.0>
References: <<57rqTLAOHi+3EwR1@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

It's the featured story on their web page now:   www.discovery.com

This is the company that produces the  Discovery Channel, which is cable
based.

Steve Richard wrote:

> As those of us who live outside the USA do not have access to this
> magazine, could you post the website address to me, so I can look for
> the article?
> If the answer is yes, Thanks.  :-)
>
> Steve
>
> In message <1999Sep13.215128.0@?>, Cecily and Ralph Wood
> <cecnralph@home.com> writes
> >The new October 99 Discover magazine has an interesting article on "The
> >Physics of ... Glass" by Robert Kunzig on page 45.  It hasn't hit the
> >website yet.
> >
> >--
> >*********************************************************************
> >*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
> >*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
> >*********************************************************************
> >
> >
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
> --
> Steve Richard
> Verrier Art Glass Ltd
> s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


----
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From owner-glass Tue Oct  5 15:51:10 1999
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X-Path: heesun.com!keane
From: "Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd." <keane@heesun.com>
To: "David Cogen" <cogen@ll.mit.edu>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Stainless steel and hot glass.
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:55:59 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct5.125559.0>
Precedence: bulk

Got this off another list.

Robert

Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd.
888-508-5595
http://www.heesun.com
Custom Design Studio
Supplies & Classes for Stained & Fused Glass & Mosaics
-

<SNIP>
>We've made a couple, and they *seem* to be OK, but something doesn't seem
>right to my scientific mind: Isn't the C.O.E. of stainless steel too
different
>from glass? Shouldn't something break, or loosen, when it cools?
>
>We've been using borosilicate glass, but would also be using Moretti at
some
>point.

>-- DavidC


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From owner-glass Tue Oct  5 16:08:08 1999
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Kuuipo <vidinhaa001@hawaii.rr.com>, Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: Virus warnings...]
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 18:18:01 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct5.14181.0>
References: <<1999Oct4.74455.0>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

Number one is a myth.  Number two is a myth.  Number three is a myth.  Number
4 is a myth.

Get a clue:    http://kumite.com/myths/email/#sendclue

Always check out a piece of virus hysteria before sending any warning to
others.  Instead of being Chicken Little, worry about something real - like
when you hard drive fails, do you have any backups!

Kuuipo wrote:

>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: Fwd: Virus warnings...
> Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 22:38:11 -1000
> From: D Uyehara <mickeypalz@juno.com>
> To: Prple1rose@aol.com, jazzmorisawa@hotmail.com, enagaoka@aol.com,
>      dkn101@aol.com, gnakao@aol.com, chriso@hawaiian.net,
>      CPERK10175@aol.com, hsakakida@hotmail.com, LSakakida@juno.com,
>      kseward@pixi.com, dee-n-yosh@juno.com, peters@lava.net,
>      W726E46@aol.com, ElsieHT@aol.com, J5D12@aol.com, luchima@hotmail.com,
>      Vidinhaa001@hawaii.rr.com, cyogi@gte.net
> References: <b98c7e7b.25268816@aol.com>
>
> >>> WARNING No. 1
> >>> If you receive any CELCOM Screen Saver Pls. do not install it!!!!!!
> >=
> >This
> >>> screensaver is very cool. It shows a NOKIA handphone, with time =
> >messages.
> >>>
> >>> After it is activated, the PC cannot boot up at all. It goes very =
> >slow.
> >>It
> >>> destroys your hard disk. The filename is CELLSAVER.EXE
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------
> >>> WARNING No. 2
> >>> Beware! if someone named <SandMan> asks you to check out his page.
> >DO
> >>NOT!
> >>> It is at  www.geocities.com/vienna/6318
> >>> This page hacks into your C:\drive.DO NOT GOTHERE... FOWARD THIS
> >MAIL =
> >TO
> >>> EVERYONE YOU KNOW
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------
> >>> Warning No. 3
> >>> WARNING: If you get an E-mail titled : "Win A Holiday" DO NOT open
> >=
> >it.
> >>> Delete it immediately. Microsoft just announced yesterday. It is a
> >>malicious
> >>> virus that WILL ERASE YOUR HARD DRIVE . At this time there is no
> >>> remedy.Forward this to everyone IMMEDIATELY!!
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------
> >>> Warning No. 4
> >>> If you receive an e-mail titled JOIN THE CREW or PENPALS,  DO NOT =
> >open
> >>> it!!!!!  It will erase EVERYTHING on your hard drive! PENPAL
> >appears =
> >to
> >>be a
> >>> friendly letter asking you if you are interested in a
> >penpal.....but =
> >by
> >>the
> >>> time you read this letter it is TOO late.  The Trojan horse virus =
> >will
> >>have
> >>> already infected the boot sector of your harddrive, destroying all
> >=
> >the
> >>data
> >>> present. It is a self-replicating virus, and once the message is
> >read =
> >it
> >>> will AUTOMATICALLY forward itself to anyone who's e-mail address is
> >>present
> >>> in your box!!!  This virus will destroy your hard drive and  holds
> >=
> >the
> >>> potential to DESTROY the hard drive of anyone whose mail is  in
> >your =
> >box
> >>and
> >>> whose mail is in their box and so on and on!!!!!!   So delete any =
> >message
> >>> titled PENPAL or JOIN THE CREW this virus can do major DAMAGE to
> >>worldwide
> >>> networks!!!
> >>>
> >>> PLEASE PASS THIS ALONG TO ALL YOUR FRIENDS AND PEOPLE IN YOUR =
> >MAILBOXES.
> >>AOL
> >>> HAS SAID THIS IS A VERY DANGEROUS VIRUS AND THERE IS NO REMEDY FOR
> >=
> >THIS
> >>YET.
> >>> FORWARD THIS MESSAGE TO ALL YOUR ON-LINE FRIENDS A.S.A.P.!
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >--part1_b98c7e7b.25268816_boundary--
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Get free e-mail you don't need Web access to use --
> Or get full, reliable Internet access from Juno Web!
> Download your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagh.

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


----
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From owner-glass Tue Oct  5 16:34:19 1999
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X-Path: xtra.co.nz!TMacnicol
From: Tina Booth <TMacnicol@xtra.co.nz>
To: Glass List <glass@bungi.com.>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: painting on glass
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 11:37:02 +1300
Message-ID: <1999Oct7.0372.0>
Precedence: bulk

I have a keen interest in painting on glass and even after my hours of
searching the net I can't seem to track down any good web pages
discussing the art.  It is the fired method that I am looking for not
the air or oven dry paints.


--
     -Tina Booth-
-Knowledge is true opinion-
       -Plato-


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From owner-glass Tue Oct  5 17:30:43 1999
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X-Path: mail.netbistro.com!pom
From: pom@mail.netbistro.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Remembering our friend
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:19:02 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct5.9192.0>
Precedence: bulk

Today is a sad day!...........
We lost our pet Debbie Dog of 17years,  she gave us so much 
unconditional love, and I would like to make a stained glass 
stepping stone for her at her little resting place in our yard!......
Does anyone in the group have a pattern of a pomeranian they 
could send me? 
I would be so appreciated!.....
Thank-you in advance
Jennifer
----
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From owner-glass Tue Oct  5 18:37:44 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!mbwalker
From: Brad Walker <mbwalker@ix.netcom.com>
To: Tina Booth <TMacnicol@xtra.co.nz>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: painting on glass
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 20:15:10 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct5.161510.0>
References: <<1999Oct7.0372.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Don't know of much on the net about painting on glass, either.  The
British Society of Master Glass Painters does have some references and
other info about traditional painting on their web site:
http://www.bsmgp.org.uk/lit.html    Also, Aurora Glass has some very basic
info on their web site:  http://www.auroraglass.com/painting.html

Bettina Eberle's book CREATIVE GLASS TECHNIQUES has some information on
more contemporary (less traditional) painting techniques.  It also has
some info on fusing and lampworking, but the painting section is the best.

Hope some of this helps.  If you find a decent on-line site, I'd love to
hear about it.

Brad Walker


Tina Booth wrote:

> I have a keen interest in painting on glass and even after my hours of
> searching the net I can't seem to track down any good web pages
> discussing the art.  It is the fired method that I am looking for not
> the air or oven dry paints.
>
> --
>      -Tina Booth-
> -Knowledge is true opinion-
>        -Plato-
>
> ----
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X-Path: one.net!gwood
From: one.net!gwood
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: physics of glass
Date: Tue Oct  5 17:27:29 1999
Message-ID: <1999Oct6.15529.0>
References: <<1999Oct5.132313.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Um, I've looked all over Discovery.com and I can't find it.
Could you supply a more specific URL?

-G

Subject: Re: physics of glass
> It's the featured story on their web page now:   www.discovery.com


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From: barbara elmore <barbaraelmore@yahoo.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: cutter help
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:30:25 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1999Oct5.103025.0>
Precedence: bulk

Lowe's, Home Depot, etc., carry hollow plastic line
that is clear tubing, is cheaper than the hose
thingie, and easier to cut because the people at the
hardware store cut them for you! 

The different sizes make for different uses.  I use
one to enlarge the barrel of my Toyo cutter because I
hold it like an ice pick.  I use another of a smaller
diameter and about 1 1/2 inches long to go over the
cutter head to protect it during transport.

As you can tell from my description, I am no Tool Time
lady!

Barbara Elmore


=====

__________________________________________________
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Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
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From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: physics of glass
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:29:00 -0700
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References: <<1999Oct5.132313.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I think the url should have been: http://www.discover.com/ (no "y").
----- Original Message -----
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: physics of glass


> It's the featured story on their web page now:   www.discovery.com
>
> This is the company that produces the  Discovery Channel, which is cable
> based.
>
> Steve Richard wrote:
>
> > As those of us who live outside the USA do not have access to this
> > magazine, could you post the website address to me, so I can look for
> > the article?
> > If the answer is yes, Thanks.  :-)
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > In message <1999Sep13.215128.0@?>, Cecily and Ralph Wood
> > <cecnralph@home.com> writes
> > >The new October 99 Discover magazine has an interesting article on "The
> > >Physics of ... Glass" by Robert Kunzig on page 45.  It hasn't hit the
> > >website yet.
> > >
> > >--
> > >*********************************************************************
> > >*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
> > >*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
> > >*********************************************************************
> > >
> > >
> > >----
> > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> > --
> > Steve Richard
> > Verrier Art Glass Ltd
> > s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
>
> --
> *********************************************************************
> *  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
> *  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
> *********************************************************************
>
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Naming Toby's new friend
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 18:19:42 -0500
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 Budweiser, Bud for short.

Good all American name.;o)

Suzanne
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Subject: Naming pup
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 18:20:16 -0500
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How many submissions are we limited to? ;o)
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From owner-glass Tue Oct  5 20:14:51 1999
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X-Path: heesun.com!keane
From: "Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd." <keane@heesun.com>
To: "Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd." <keane@heesun.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Stainless steel and hot glass.
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:00:26 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct5.17026.0>
Precedence: bulk

Forgot to paste the chart.



What I can find for low temp COE's for stainless...
431 = 57
446 = 59
304 = 96...very common
347 = 93
316 = 89
309 = 83
310 = 80
Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd.
324 Main Street 
Reisterstown , MD 21136
410-833-3007 or 888-508-5595
keane@heesun.com
http://www.heesun.com
Custom Design Studio 
Supplies & Classes for Stained & Fused Glass & Mosaics


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From owner-glass Tue Oct  5 21:14:44 1999
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From: Michael Smoucha <izzy3@mediaone.net>
To: RCall10713@cs.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Fwd: restoration of windows
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 20:23:54 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Oct5.152354.0>
References: <<1999Sep26.20544.0>>
Precedence: bulk




> I'd agree with you that it is rather harsh, and terribly judgmental to say to
> someone, on this forum, "...........you have no businesses doing this work
> professionally".

I was speaking specifically of restoration work which requires many years of
specialized experience in order to do properly. It is inherently unfair to the
client and to the field in general to perform substandard work and to call it
restoration. I still feel that if you need to ask questions as basic as those
asked in the post you should study as an apprentice under qualified restoration
professionals in order to gain the experience necessary to properly execute
"restoration" and not cause more irreparably damage to other art work. On the
contrary I may not have been harsh enough.

>
>
> If all of the people who do, using that criteria, have a right to do this
> work professionally, were as judgmental, and ,therefore, withheld years of
> experience and expertise, from the group, where would we be?

I believe that gaining experience before you "start a restoration buisness" is
what I would suggest.

>
>
>
>
> Richard
> Glassics Artglass Studio
> Valencia, CA

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From owner-glass Tue Oct  5 21:40:33 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Tina Booth <TMacnicol@xtra.co.nz>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: painting on glass
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:00:21 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct5.17021.0>
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Message text written by Tina Booth
>I have a keen interest in painting on glass and even after my hours of
searching the net I can't seem to track down any good web pages
discussing the art.  It is the fired method that I am looking for not
the air or oven dry paints.
<

Tina, I have a series of glass painting articles in
Common Ground: Glass that might be helpful.
Also, rumor has it that the book, The Art of Painting
on Glass by Albinus Elskus is going into re-print....
this is the bible for glass painters.  I'll post on bungi
if I get the word.... =


Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/
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From: RiHepcats@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE:  box hinges
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:26:21 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Oct6.22621.0>
Precedence: bulk

Someone told me you shouldn't use a solid piece of glass for the top of a box 
because the hinge couldn't hold it unless you put a lip around the lid.  Any 
ways to get around this?

Any recommendations for books that include discussions of structural 
strength, etc?

Thank you

Sarah
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From: Brad Walker <mbwalker@ix.netcom.com>
To: daver!one.net!gwood@ix.netcom.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: physics of glass
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 22:51:34 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct5.185134.0>
References: <<1999Oct6.15529.0>>
Precedence: bulk

http://school.discover.com/oct_99/gthere.html?article=physics.html


daver!one.net!gwood wrote:

> Um, I've looked all over Discovery.com and I can't find it.
> Could you supply a more specific URL?
>
> -G
>
> Subject: Re: physics of glass
> > It's the featured story on their web page now:   www.discovery.com
>
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Oct  5 22:12:06 1999
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X-Path: pro-ns.net!jdahlin
From: "J. Dahlin" <jdahlin@pro-ns.net>
To: synergyglass <seaspray@island.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: what to do with plastic solder spools?
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 21:11:25 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Oct5.161125.0>
References: <<199910051549.IAA06781@mimas.island.net>>
Precedence: bulk

I hang them on the wall and use them for storing things like rings,
twisted wire, etc.  Keeps these items handy, but stores them fairly
neat.  I don't have a "beautiful" working area, but it is functional.

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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Gregg Wood <gwood@one.net>, Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: physics of glass
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 00:15:13 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct5.201513.0>
References: <<002301bf0f90$f1a6a200$8a11890a@gsw>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

http://school.discover.com/ - click on Supercooled Sand or go directly
to it

http://school.discover.com/oct_99/gthere.html?article=physics.html

Sorry for the wild goose chase.  My computer bombed just as I went to
send the first message, and so when I got back into Netscape, I did the
URL from memory.  hmmmm.

Gregg Wood wrote:

> Um, I've looked all over Discovery.com and I can't find it.
> Could you supply a more specific URL?
>
> -G
>
> Subject: Re: physics of glass
> > It's the featured story on their web page now:   www.discovery.com

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Wed Oct  6 06:47:38 1999
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: what to do with plastic solder spools?
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:01:43 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Oct6.13143.0>
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In a message dated 10/5/99 1:47:23 PM, seaspray@island.net writes:

>I went to recycle them and my depot doesn't take unnumbered
>plastics

Not that trashing them is a good thing, but recycling them might not be such 
a good idea either because of the lead residue on them. There's no guarantee 
that traces of that lead wouldn't be carried on into their next "incarnation" 
(which might be something that comes into direct contact with food or small 
children).

Wild-ass idea: collect them up and when you've got a box full, send them back 
to the manufacturer to be re-used?


Sparks
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: physics of glass
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:01:42 EDT
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In a message dated 10/5/99 10:35:08 PM, atwoods@aisl.bc.ca writes:

>I think the url should have been: http://www.discover.com/ (no "y").

Yeah, that's right. They're the same folks who publish Discover magazine (one 
of my faves - I almost always read the thing through cover to cover as soon 
as it arrives). The magazine article is fascinating!


Sparks
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From owner-glass Wed Oct  6 07:55:26 1999
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X-Path: ll.mit.edu!cogen
From: David Cogen <cogen@ll.mit.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Stainless steel and hot glass.
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:59:47 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <199910061357.JAA16025@ll.mit.edu>
Precedence: bulk

> What I can find for low temp COE's for stainless...
> 431 = 57
> 446 = 59
> 304 = 96...very common
> 347 = 93
> 316 = 89
> 309 = 83
> 310 = 80

So that puts the COE for stainless greater than borosilicate (in the 30's I
think), but less than (but closer too) Moretti (104).

So I think the steel insert, shrinking more than the glass, should separate
(loosen) from the surrounding glass, with borosilicate. I haven't observed
this happening yet.

With the Moretti the insert, shrinking less than the glass, should cause the
surrounding glass to crack as the glass tries to shrink faster. I haven't
tried Moretty yet.

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From owner-glass Wed Oct  6 13:54:53 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!Kauriee
From: Kauriee@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: pup name
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:18:37 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Oct6.201837.0>
Precedence: bulk

How about "Liberty"?  "Libby" for short.

Kauriee
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From owner-glass Wed Oct  6 14:54:24 1999
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From: Joseph Augusta <jaugusta@capecod.net>
To: Kauriee@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: pup name
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 17:06:06 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct6.1366.0>
References: <<1999Oct6.201837.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Kauriee@aol.com wrote:

> How about "Liberty"?  "Libby" for short.
>
> Kauriee

Let's give the pup a more practical name, more in keeping with puppy
behavior, such as: "Didyoudothat?"  "Getdown!"  and one last one:
"Takethatoutofyourmouth!".

Best wishes,
Joseph

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From owner-glass Wed Oct  6 16:24:25 1999
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Subject: Manhattan Apartment Rentals
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You either asked for information previously (in the past year) or your information was provided to us as someone interested in Manhattan (New York City) Apartment Rentals. 
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From owner-glass Thu Oct  7 06:10:06 1999
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X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: Re: what to do with plastic solder spools?
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 06:28:57 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19991006062857.008084b0@pop.racsa.co.cr>
References: <<199910051549.IAA06781@mimas.island.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Would washing the spools, and then spray painting them with a non-toxic
make them safe for other uses...like cat toys?



At 02:15 PM 10/5/1999 -0400, you wrote:
>synergyglass wrote:
>>=20
>> Hi all.  I've got several dozen of the empty solder spools hanging around
>> the studio, and they MUST be good for something but I can't figure out
what.
>> Actually I went to recycle them and my depot doesn't take unnumbered
>> plastics, so I'm stuck with them.  I used one for spooling up my fine box
>> chain, but they're too small for larger chain.
>>=20
>> They make great cat toys. Yeah, I know they have lead residue, no need to
>> point that out.  The cat toy thing only happened once by accident.
>>=20
>> So what do all the creative bungians do with their spools?
>>=20
>> C.
>> Carol Swann
>> Synergy Glass & Creative
>> www.igga.org/synergy
>> seaspray@island.net
>>=20
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>i throw them away.=20
>
>1 spool has chain on it. another has came wrapped around it.=20
>
>i suppose you could wrap string around it for recycling or kite flying.
>but other then that, they're garbage.
>
>
>---Mike Savad
>
>--=20
>Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
>http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
>9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making
>your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are
>also a lot of new Sky City pictures.
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=
=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=
=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=
=BA
=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA
RICHARD AND MEG LAVAL
Apdo 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA

PHONE 645-5052 or 645-5419
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From owner-glass Thu Oct  7 07:57:43 1999
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X-Path: yahoo.com!patrickkelly1
From: patrick kelly <patrickkelly1@yahoo.com>
To: pom@mail.netbistro.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Remembering our friend
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 06:45:30 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1999Oct6.234530.0>
Precedence: bulk


Debbie, I will check this weekend. I think I do.

Sorry for your loss, I have 4 Old English Sheepdogs
buried in the back yard. Each lived long, wonderful
lives.

Patrick
Roes and Rainbows

PS... Don't tell "E" that I am so sentimental about
Old English Sheepdogs it will ruin the crusty patina I
have worked so hard to maintain with her.....shhhhhh




--- pom@mail.netbistro.com wrote:
> Today is a sad day!...........
> We lost our pet Debbie Dog of 17years,  she gave us
> so much 
> unconditional love, and I would like to make a
> stained glass 
> stepping stone for her at her little resting place
> in our yard!......
> Does anyone in the group have a pattern of a
> pomeranian they 
> could send me? 
> I would be so appreciated!.....
> Thank-you in advance
> Jennifer
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to:
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> 


=====

__________________________________________________
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Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
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From owner-glass Thu Oct  7 08:26:05 1999
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X-Path: one.net!gwood
From: "Gregg Wood" <gwood@one.net>
To: "Glass @ Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: what to do with plastic solder spools?
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:47:16 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct7.54716.0>
References: <<3.0.6.32.19991006062857.008084b0@pop.racsa.co.cr>>
Precedence: bulk

Lead is one of those insidious things.  It gets into the smallest
nooks & crannies.  It's not water or detergent soluble and if covered
with paint, will only adhere to the paint when it chips off.  And it will
chip
off the plastic those spools are made of.  It's very difficult to get any
sort of paint to adhere to that type of plastic and the spools are flexible
and the paint is not.  At least the paint most people would use anyway.

In addition, for cats in this case, the entire spool becomes what OSHA
calls a 'mouthable surface' and sharp pointy little kitty teeth can damage
almost anything.
(OK, maybe not ANYTHING, but between teeth & claws they can damage
everything in MY house)

-G

From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
(Edit...  Edit... Edit...)
> Would washing the spools, and then spray painting them with a non-toxic
> make them safe for other uses...like cat toys?
(End of Edit...  Edit... Edit...)

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From owner-glass Thu Oct  7 08:40:12 1999
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From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: glass@bungi.com, Joseph Augusta <jaugusta@capecod.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: pup name
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:13:04 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct11.0134.0>
References: <<1999Oct6.1366.0>>
Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
Precedence: bulk

Joseph Augusta wrote:
> 
> Kauriee@aol.com wrote:
> 
> > How about "Liberty"?  "Libby" for short.
> >
> > Kauriee
> 
> 

I used to work for a vet and we actually had a client with a  cat named
"Underfoot".

Liz
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From owner-glass Thu Oct  7 09:22:41 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: RiHepcats@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: box hinges
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 10:44:56 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct7.64456.0>
References: <<1999Oct6.22621.0>>
Organization: Mike's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

RiHepcats@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Someone told me you shouldn't use a solid piece of glass for the top of a box
> because the hinge couldn't hold it unless you put a lip around the lid.  Any
> ways to get around this?
> 
> Any recommendations for books that include discussions of structural
> strength, etc?
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Sarah
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


a solid lid needs strong foil strength. most of my boxes have 5 piece
lids. this gives me good solder points. but i've had very good luck with
the foil holding up. a pretty good way to get around this is to have a
multi piece lid. with atleast one vertical seam pointing at the hinge.
the hinge would attach to that, in addtion to the other points. 


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making
your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are
also a lot of new Sky City pictures.
----
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From owner-glass Thu Oct  7 12:00:09 1999
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From: Don Scott <dsscott@city.lethbridge.ab.ca>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: NG - RE: pup name
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:28:35 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Oct7.62835.0>
Organization: Lethbridge Fire Department
Precedence: bulk

Our dog, (Golder retriever) has many names.  One of them is "Speedbump" 
because she chooses the most inappropriate places to lie down and we always 
seem to be stepping over her.

Don Scott

-----Original Message-----
From:	Elizabeth Arakelian [SMTP:glshorse@ior.com]
Sent:	Monday, October 11, 1999 8:13 AM
To:	glass@bungi.com; Joseph Augusta
Subject:	Re: pup name

Joseph Augusta wrote:
>
> Kauriee@aol.com wrote:
>
> > How about "Liberty"?  "Libby" for short.
> >
> > Kauriee
>
>

I used to work for a vet and we actually had a client with a  cat named
"Underfoot".

Liz
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From owner-glass Thu Oct  7 13:00:11 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!mbwalker
From: Brad Walker <mbwalker@ix.netcom.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: NG - RE: pup name
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 15:24:34 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct7.112434.0>
References: <<1999Oct7.62835.0>>
Precedence: bulk

We used to call our pup "Puddles."   Thankfully, she didn't grow up to be
"Rivers."  (Or worse, "Atlantic Ocean.")

Also once had a dog named "Cat."  He used to come when you called "Here, Kitty,
Kitty...."

Sure hope this pup gets a name soon...

Brad Walker

Don Scott wrote:

> Our dog, (Golder retriever) has many names.  One of them is "Speedbump"
> because she chooses the most inappropriate places to lie down and we always
> seem to be stepping over her.
>
> Don Scott
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:   Elizabeth Arakelian [SMTP:glshorse@ior.com]
> Sent:   Monday, October 11, 1999 8:13 AM
> To:     glass@bungi.com; Joseph Augusta
> Subject:        Re: pup name
>
> Joseph Augusta wrote:
> >
> > Kauriee@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > > How about "Liberty"?  "Libby" for short.
> > >
> > > Kauriee
> >
> >
>
> I used to work for a vet and we actually had a client with a  cat named
> "Underfoot".
>
> Liz
> ----
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>
> ----
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From owner-glass Thu Oct  7 13:32:43 1999
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X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods
From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
To: <RiHepcats@aol.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: box hinges
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:27:54 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct7.52754.0>
References: <<1999Oct6.22621.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Yes, without foil line(s) running from the spot where the hinges are
attached into the interior of the lid, the foil where the hinges are
attached will tend to pull away from the glass.  The hinges simply place too
much torque on a standard width foil edge and they will twist it way from
the glass.

Some solutions I have used or seen are listed below.  Which ones will work
depend very much on the size of the lid, construction methods (such as foil
width, bead thickness), quality of the hinges (how smooth functioning they
are = how much torque they place on the foil), and probably several other
factors.  You may have to experiment on your particular application.

- Knife hinges with the leaves down the sides of the lid (rather than pin
hinges on the edge of the lid).

- Hinges with "flanges" extending some distance out onto the lid on at least
one, preferably both, sides.  Usually glued to the glass, though sometimes
held by spring pressure between the leaves.  Can be constructed or purchased
from cabinet hardware catalogues.

- Extra wide foil (at least 1/2 inch) with a well thickened solder bead for
strength.  This essentially creates flanges to hold against the torque.
Depending on lid size/weight and hinge quality this may be enough.

- Other hinge attachment methods besides soldered to foil on glass.  I know
one person that uses a high temperature epoxy to glue the hinges directly to
the glass.  Then ends the foil against the hinge and solders the foil to the
already attached hinge for a continuous appearence.  She insists she has
never had a hinge separate.

----- Original Message -----
From: <RiHepcats@aol.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 7:26 PM
Subject: RE: box hinges


> Someone told me you shouldn't use a solid piece of glass for the top of a
box
> because the hinge couldn't hold it unless you put a lip around the lid.
Any
> ways to get around this?
>
> Any recommendations for books that include discussions of structural
> strength, etc?
>
> Thank you
>
> Sarah
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Thu Oct  7 14:31:17 1999
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Ali Casado <ACASADO@webtv.net>
Subject: Re: Slumping edges
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:50:38 +0100
Message-ID: <1999Oct7.225038.0>
References: <<1999Sep17.183429.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

In message <1999Sep17.183429.0@?>, Ali Casado <ACASADO@webtv.net> writes
>Hi all,
>How can I get around not having rounded edges on my slumping projects?
>Since slumping temps. are lower than fusing, do I have to full fuse
>(even one layer of glass) in order to have fully rounded edges and then
>slump the piece?  Is there another way to have rounded edges without 2
>firings?

You can polish, but it might take more labour

Steve

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Thu Oct  7 17:59:05 1999
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X-Path: juno.com!nbg3755
From: Nancy B Gildersleeve <nbg3755@juno.com>
To: Witchdoc3@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: what to do with plastic solder spools?
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:58:45 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct7.115845.0>
Precedence: bulk

Sending them back to the mfg. is a great idea, Sparks.  I'm all in favor
of re-using things and they seem easily re-used!  I'm going to contact
Canfield and see if this is possible.

Nancy G
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From owner-glass Thu Oct  7 19:33:39 1999
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X-Path: pro-ns.net!jdahlin
From: "J. Dahlin" <jdahlin@pro-ns.net>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Canfield's New Flux
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 19:39:03 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Oct7.14393.0>
References: <<1999Sep21.154830.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I used it last weekend and was extremely pleased with the results.  The
bead I got on copper foil was really smooth, more so than with the
Canfield blue flux I have been using.  The new flux did smoke though for
me.  That is what I have like the best about the Canfield blue, no
smoke.  I am looking forward to using the new flux on a panel.



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From owner-glass Thu Oct  7 20:54:26 1999
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From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>,
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Re: what to do with plastic solder spools?
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 22:56:47 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct7.185647.0>
References: <<3.0.6.32.19991006062857.008084b0@pop.racsa.co.cr>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk


--------------2B03BEFB4882BC491346C561
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Doubt it.  Problem is the paint won't stick, so the cat or dog or kid ends up
eating the paint.

Richard LaVal wrote:

> Would washing the spools, and then spray painting them with a non-toxic
> make them safe for other uses...like cat toys?
>
>

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Doubt it.&nbsp; Problem is the paint won't stick, so the cat or dog or
kid ends up eating the paint.
<p>Richard LaVal wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>Would washing the spools, and then spray painting
them with a non-toxic
<br>make them safe for other uses...like cat toys?
<br>&nbsp;
<br><a href="http://www.bungi.com/glass"></a>&nbsp;</blockquote>

<p>--
<br>*********************************************************************
<br>*&nbsp; Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood&nbsp; and/or&nbsp; Ralph Bernard
Wood
<br>*&nbsp; Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
<br>*********************************************************************
<br>&nbsp;</html>

--------------2B03BEFB4882BC491346C561--

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From owner-glass Fri Oct  8 03:41:42 1999
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From: "Michele Spruill" <mrsdesigns@hotmail.com>
To: toby@northlights.co.uk, glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Puppy name?
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 03:07:19 PDT
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What about King?

As in Viking dog?

Your student,
Michele

______________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Fri Oct  8 06:11:25 1999
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X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram
From: "Claudette Jaramillo" <cpjaram@7cities.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: painting on glass
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:00:45 -0600
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I bought the book by AE, and I read the articles, but absolutely nothing
takes the place of learning from a master, like Mike Greer.  It makes you
realize that this art form takes many, many years of practice.  I am
constantly practicing...I will probably end up  with the world's largest
collection of 2" squares in recorded history...but I am improving.   Also, I
am considering getting a second mortgage on the house to buy a badger brush
(grin!)   I have my husband building me a light table and I made an easel.
So, if you start this, remember it will consume you!!!!!!!!!
warmest regards,
claudette

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From owner-glass Fri Oct  8 09:52:11 1999
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From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: glass@bungi.com, Michele Spruill <mrsdesigns@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Puppy name?
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:41:51 -0700
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Michele Spruill wrote:
> 
> What about King?
> 
> As in Viking dog?
> 
> Your student,
> Michele
> 
> ______________________________________________________
>  or as in Stephen? great American author that he is?

Liz
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From owner-glass Fri Oct  8 10:57:04 1999
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From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Claudette Jaramillo" <cpjaram@7cities.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: painting on glass
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:20:16 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct8.32016.0>
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>>Also, I
am considering getting a second mortgage on the house to buy a badger brush
(grin!) <<

Buy a $7.00 badger spray brush and use the money to buy glass. Hard to beat
a nice even sprayed coat of glass paint. Make sure you wear a respirator
that is adequate.

Bob in SOCAL

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From owner-glass Fri Oct  8 11:50:28 1999
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From: ACASADO@webtv.net (Ali Casado)
To: Glass@bungi.com (bungians)
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Wire Wrapping
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:04:32 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1999Oct8.10432.0>
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Hey all,
I hope someone out there can help me.  I fuse my own pendants, but I
wanted to learn the art of wire wrapping.  There are several videos and
books on them i.e. (Jane Persico's video, or Hot and Wired by Linda
Abbot).  As a beginner wire wrapper, which do you think would be more
beneficial for me.  I have set my stones in PMC (Precious Metal Clay)
silver, and have dabbled  in sterling silver settings.  So I have used
the required jewelers tools, but I do not have a clue about wire
wrapping.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

Ali :=)

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From owner-glass Fri Oct  8 12:19:39 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: painting on glass
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:54:27 -0400
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Message text written by "Bob Duchesneau"
>Hard to beat
a nice even sprayed coat of glass paint.<

I wouldn't trade my $200 badger brush for
any airbrush set-up!  Wouldn't work with the
glass painting technique I use anyway.... I
do my oil painting with a brush, too!  All my
painting, come to think of it.... this is one of
those situations where the very best tool =

does make a huge difference.  Kind of like
the difference between really expensive water
color paper and the cheap stuff....

Best regards,

Dani Greer (who has a good airbrush languishing
in a box somewhere.... I think....)
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From owner-glass Fri Oct  8 13:22:39 1999
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X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: ACASADO@webtv.net (Ali Casado), glass
Subject: Re: Wire Wrapping
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:28:20 PDT
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[In the message entitled "Wire Wrapping" on Oct  8, 14:04, Ali Casado writes:]

> I hope someone out there can help me.  I fuse my own pendants, but I
> wanted to learn the art of wire wrapping.  There are several videos and
> books on them i.e. (Jane Persico's video, or Hot and Wired by Linda

I have taken classes from both of these teachers at the Las Vegas
show last year.  I haven't seen their videos but I know I was glad
to be there in person...it's hard explaining on video I think.
I'd advice you to take a class with either of them if possible.
It's truly worth it.
Patience is the key to wire wrapping!

-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Fri Oct  8 14:18:15 1999
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X-Path: mtcon.net!shigbee
From: "Shari" <shigbee@mtcon.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Wire Wrapping
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:23:18 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Oct8.82318.0>
References: <<1999Oct8.10432.0>>
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Ali:

I tried to learn wire wrapping from several different books, and everything
I tried came out looking terrible. I finally bit the bullet and signed up
for a 3-hr class at a local bead shop and it's amazing what a difference
that made. Just the simple act of how to hold the pliers in which hand and
pull against what while pulling which end which direction--I couldn't  have
figured it out on my own in a million years. It was $25 and about 20 minutes
of instruction and 2 1/2 hrs of practicing while she corrected my every move
and suddenly it all makes sense and is easy as pie. So, do you have a local
bead store that might teach a class?

The other thing I learned: we have 3 bead stores in town, which all claim to
sell and teach wire wrapping. Only one, however, sells the expensive
sterling silver and 14 kt gold wire, findings, etc. The other two stores had
people who were obviously guessing just like I was on how to wire wrap and
make it look good. (And their stuff looked as if I had wrapped it
pre-class.) The expensive store had the expert.

Good luck and have fun! I love it now.
Shari in Salt Lake City

----- Original Message -----
From: Ali Casado <ACASADO@webtv.net>
To: bungians <Glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 12:04 PM
Subject: Wire Wrapping


> Hey all,
> I hope someone out there can help me.  I fuse my own pendants, but I
> wanted to learn the art of wire wrapping.  There are several videos and
> books on them i.e. (Jane Persico's video, or Hot and Wired by Linda
> Abbot).  As a beginner wire wrapper, which do you think would be more
> beneficial for me.  I have set my stones in PMC (Precious Metal Clay)
> silver, and have dabbled  in sterling silver settings.  So I have used
> the required jewelers tools, but I do not have a clue about wire
> wrapping.
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Ali :=)
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


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From owner-glass Fri Oct  8 14:47:46 1999
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From: "Shari" <shigbee@mtcon.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Wire Wrapping
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:04:35 -0600
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> Patience is the key to wire wrapping!
>


I agree--patience, practice, and seeing it in person.
Shari



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From owner-glass Fri Oct  8 22:26:07 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu
From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Delores Taylor" <delores@artglassconcepts.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: painting on glass
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 21:39:51 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct8.143951.0>
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>>I'm curious about over spray and general clean up since air brushes throw
fine particles of mist into the air. <<

Over spray need not be a problem for clean up because the glass can be
removed to a proper area for spraying. A respirator is necessary whenever
toxic materials are sprayed unless something like a vacuumed sandblast booth
is used.

I use a $7.00 air brush from Central Pneumatic #6131. Use this same model
air brush for spraying kiln wash and Spray A.

Bob in SOCAL

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From owner-glass Sat Oct  9 10:06:16 1999
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From: "Candy Thurman" <candy@ghostman.com>
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Subject: is bungi down?
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 99 22:19:32 
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or is everyone out doing glass!!

Candy

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From owner-glass Sat Oct  9 15:41:29 1999
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From: alipearson@webtv.net (alipea)
To: candy@ghostman.com (Candy Thurman)
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Subject: Re: is bungi down?
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 17:57:06 -0400 (EDT)
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I've been out seling the glass we made yesturday, & trying to drum up
sales?

We've been selling what we make by word of mouth, until we get a web
site. Do you know of any stained glass or glass in general "malls" on
the web? And if you do, is it cheap? 

Ali

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Subject: Re: is bungi down?
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 18:29:31 -0400 (EDT)
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We've (my husband parke & i) have been out selling what we made
yesturday & getting more orders.  Does anyone know of any web malls we
could join cheap?

Ali

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>...  Does anyone know of any web malls we
>could join cheap?
 I don't even know what you are talking about!
Dee
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Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 19:37:45 -0400
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BF128D.C2E772A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Is there a way to send drawings to each other?  I am in need of a =
pattern for an elephant lightcatcher.  I owe a friend a BIG favor and =
would like to make her one.

I'm new to this group and wonder how it works.


Jim

------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BF128D.C2E772A0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Is there a way to send drawings to each other?&nbsp; =
I am in=20
need of a pattern for an elephant lightcatcher.&nbsp; I owe a friend a =
BIG favor=20
and would like to make her one.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I'm new to this group and wonder how it =
works.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Jim</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BF128D.C2E772A0--

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From owner-glass Sat Oct  9 21:03:27 1999
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X-Path: xtra.co.nz!TMacnicol
From: Tina Booth <TMacnicol@xtra.co.nz>
To: Glass List <glass@bungi.com.>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Copyrite and double glazing
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 16:39:43 +1300
Message-ID: <1999Oct11.53943.0>
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Hi all,

I am in the proceeds of designing a large window for a gable end in a
log cabin.  I have two questions:

1. Does drawing from a photo breech copyrite?

2. The owner wants the gable end window double glazed.  Do I put the
window infront of the glazed unit and if so will it condesate up?

I am on the understanding that the copyrite is not a problem but I do
want to ya all's opinion.  And I have had suggestions by an sg studio to
place the sg panel inside the double glazed unit. But to me, that seems
akward.  Surely that would make the insulation value drop and the glass
infont of the panel would be distracting.

All your thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks
--
     -Tina Booth-
-Knowledge is true opinion-
       -Plato-


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X-Path: moswoodmountainltd.com!Pam
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <Pam@moswoodmountainltd.com>
To: Glass Talk <glass@intrastar.net>, "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Call For Art: Artist/Survivors of Trauma
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 21:48:37 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct9.144837.0>
Organization: MM Ltd.
Precedence: bulk

Thought there might be some of you who would be interested in this.

Pam


Visual Art, Photography, Sculpture, Crafts, Poetry, et al.
                               "Women and Children of the New
Millennium" a Multi-Media
                                             Art Exhibition
                                         by Survivors Art Foundation,
                                      In Honor of Women's History Month
                                   Southampton Cultural Center,
Southampton, NY
                                      March 17th through March 27th 2000

                                       Submission Deadline April 1st
2000

                                     Healing through Art ... Art through
Healing

                               Dedicated to encourage healing through
the arts, Survivors Art
                                  Foundation is a non-profit
organization committed to
                                 empowering Visual, Literary and
Performing Artists with
                                 effective expressive outlets, via Web
Gallery, National
                                Exhibitions, Outreach Programs and
Publications. Our goals
                               are to provide entertainment, education,
exposure to the arts,
                                and raising public awareness, while
mainstreaming trauma
                                survivors with physical and mental
disabilities into the arts.

                                      The SAF Internet Art Gallery is
located
                                (http://www.survivorsartfoundation.org)
Exhibitors cross all
                                cultures, genders, ages and religions.
They are survivors,
                               working through their personal journeys
which span physical
                                and domestic violence, holocaust and
war-related trauma,
                               rape, illness such as AIDS and cancer,
MS, mental illness, and
                                            other disabilities.

                                It is our goal to enable the artists to
display and market their
                                 works to give them recognition, hope
and direction by
                                  implementing this innovative approach
to healing.

                                       Please contact us for guidelines
at:
                                          Survivors Art Foundation
                                      PO Box 383, Westhampton, NY 11977
                                      email:
safe@survivorsartfoundation.org
                                    URL:
http://www.survivorsartfoundation.org



--

Ms. Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director
The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.stainedglassartists.com
A Division of: Moswood Mountain Ltd.
http://www.moswoodmountainltd.com


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From owner-glass Sun Oct 10 10:53:28 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
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Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:09:15 -0400
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Message text written by Dee Thompson
>>...  Does anyone know of any web malls we
>could join cheap?
 I don't even know what you are talking about!
Dee
----<

Have you tried eBay?  This is the largest (as far
as I know) auction site on the internet...

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios (still at work and back to slave pits...)
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From owner-glass Sun Oct 10 13:48:49 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: NG: Puppy Name & Special T-shirt
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 01:08:32 +0000
Message-ID: <199910102010.UAA04179@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Full Monty...????

Have been looking EVERYWHERE on the T-shirt to find it. Can't have 
been big enough !!
In any case, was considering making a flag out of the T-shirt and 
hang it out for next year's St.Patrick's day.

By the way... puppies have VERY sharp teeth and need constant 
feeding.
What has happened to the Bios???

POMERANIAN designs: give me 24 hours... I think I may have one for 
Mummy of "Debbie Dog". Only just got back on line after having been 
late paying my service provider subs.
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK


> 
> I think the puppy should be named "Hornsby" because
> "E" sprouted her horns when she was here. No
> grinder....indeed.
> 
> I hope the "Special T-shirt" she is refering to is the
> one that I gave her with my picture on it doing the
> "Full Monty". It may not do much for her but it gave a
> much needed breath of fresh air to parts that needed
> it.
> 
> uh oh now I have two canines to watch for..... there
> is something that is getting my shoe all wet...... get
> away..... the pup is getting his revenge already. (8-)
> 
> 
> PS. Glad you are home safe and sound "E". Who else
> would I be able to pick on so much.
> 
> 
> Patrick
> Roses and Rainbows
> 
>  
> 
> =====
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sun Oct 10 14:02:54 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: chat, ebay
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 16:07:20 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct10.12720.0>
Precedence: bulk



-------------Forwarded Message-----------------

From:	Dee Thompson, INTERNET:deethom@erols.com
To:	Dani Greer, GreerStudios
	=

Date:	10/10/99 10:18 AM

RE:	chat, ebay

 =

>
>Have you tried eBay?  This is the largest (as far
>as I know) auction site on the internet...

ahhh, ok. I just never heard it called a mall.  I was envisioning a web
site with links to related stores or something!
No I haven't used e bay...Has anyone on this list used it to sell any gla=
ss?  =

Dee




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From owner-glass Sun Oct 10 14:19:37 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: painting on glass
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Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 01:08:32 +0000
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Precedence: bulk


Right Folks;

Have now managed to unpack the final suit-case....
By co-incidence... today is a week ago since I arrived back in UK. 
Still (!) have body-clock problems; i.e. going to bed at 3 in the 
morning and waking up at about noon.
Shocking!!

This week-end have promised Jenny to be "gofer"-person at one of her 
antiques fairs. So will be humping furniture and smile sweetly at 
arrogant punters.....

Found my Elskus book, found my Reyntiens book.... all ready and eager 
to get going....
I WILL send an e-mail to Marty at Jen-Kiln for advice, but in the 
meantime - please could you advice me how to patch up the cosmetic 
"gouges" off the exterior of my kiln. ?????
One hinge slightly bent, lid - as a result - slightly askew..
Have carefully scooped up all the powdery kiln brick chips that got 
dislodged during transport. 
Have beemn thinking of using UK produced fire-proof cement to mix it 
all up and touch it up.
On the other hand; during my travels, I noticed great big chunks 
missing out of the kilns of folks showing me their kilns and kiln 
work.
AM I being a pernickety perfectionist, or are my concerns 
legitimate???  I would like to start off using a perfect kiln, 
without  scuff marks and ground-away bits of the exterior.

Some years ago, there was a book written by the English Nobel Prize 
Winner Graham Greene (also related to a family of Brewers connected 
to my particular county in UK!!),  called "Travels With My Aunt".
Dani has "leant" on me somewhat to write an article about  "Travels 
With My Kiln". I will do that in due course for the IGGA....
I do however want to pluck up enough courage to have it up and 
running..... and working.....    and I WANT TO PLAY !!!!!

I have already been teaching 3 evenings this last week; I am 
positively BURSTING to get up and running.
What fire-proof compound can I use to touch up the exterior of my 
precious , hand-carried kiln...? (Pending Marty's advice....)


Which reminds me, I promised to forward a reference to Debbie Dog, 
the Pomeranian. I brought back with me a couple of pattern books of 
dogs. One of which is called "Dog'Gone de Mello", by Randy de Mello
(cost USD. 11.95) On page  44/45, there is a Pomeranian design.
ISBN: 0-9615939-4-6.
Published by Hixson Studios, P.O.Box. 3202, Grass Valley, CA 
95945-3202
I hope that Mummy of Debbie Dog can make use of this.........
Much Love to you. In UK there is a saying....."A Dog is for LIFE, and 
not just for Christmas......"

Much Love to you all.
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

> I wouldn't trade my $200 badger brush for
> any airbrush set-up!  Wouldn't work with the
> glass painting technique I use anyway.... I
> do my oil painting with a brush, too!  All my
> painting, come to think of it.... this is one of
> those situations where the very best tool =
> 
> does make a huge difference.  Kind of like
> the difference between really expensive water
> color paper and the cheap stuff....
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Dani Greer (who has a good airbrush languishing
> in a box somewhere.... I think....)
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sun Oct 10 14:49:46 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: chat, ebay
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 16:24:10 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Oct10.112410.0>
References: <<1999Oct10.12720.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Ive sold on ebay, and I know other have as well.
There are places like what you were thinking of though.  In fact I ran
across one the other day.  I just cant remember where.  Karen? Jerri? 
Didnt we talk about it?

Do you remember.

Suzanne

Dani Greer wrote:
> 
> -------------Forwarded Message-----------------
> 
> From:   Dee Thompson, INTERNET:deethom@erols.com
> To:     Dani Greer, GreerStudios
>         =
> 
> Date:   10/10/99 10:18 AM
> 
> RE:     chat, ebay
> 
>  =
> 
> >
> >Have you tried eBay?  This is the largest (as far
> >as I know) auction site on the internet...
> 
> ahhh, ok. I just never heard it called a mall.  I was envisioning a web
> site with links to related stores or something!
> No I haven't used e bay...Has anyone on this list used it to sell any gla=
> ss?  =
> 
> Dee
> 
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> Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:38:57 -0400
> To: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
> From: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
> Subject: chat, ebay
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"
> 
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From owner-glass Sun Oct 10 15:03:32 1999
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From: alipearson@webtv.net (alipea)
To: GreerStudios@compuserve.com (Dani Greer)
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: chat, ebay
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 17:23:31 -0400 (EDT)
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References: <<GreerStudios@compuserve.com>>
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someone i knew a year ago hed set up an craftr/artisan mall.
unfrtunately i don't have his number or web address.  His first name was
perry.

Ali

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From owner-glass Sun Oct 10 15:24:36 1999
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X-Path: waterw.com!artglass
From: "pj friend" <artglass@waterw.com>
To: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: painting on glass
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 17:52:44 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct10.135244.0>
Precedence: bulk

E!!!!!!

So??? Did you name that poor puppy yet???

I would wait before you patch anything on that kiln.  See what Marty has to
say.
He might just be able to send you a new hinge and a few fire bricks.
I can't imagine what the airlines did to that poor kiln.

Oh btw, please recant your statement!!! lol ..........Not "Everyone's" kiln
has big chunks out of it!!!!
Our coffin kiln is in purrrfect condition!!!

I can't wait to hear the article "Traveling with my kiln".  I am sure it
will be a best seller!!!

Good to hear you voice again!
my best,
pj



Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc.
www.waterw.com/~artglass
Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America
Member International Guild of Glass Artists
Associate Member AIA
-----Original Message-----
From: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Sunday, October 10, 1999 5:35 PM
Subject: Re: painting on glass


>
>Right Folks;
>
>Have now managed to unpack the final suit-case....
>By co-incidence... today is a week ago since I arrived back in UK.
>Still (!) have body-clock problems; i.e. going to bed at 3 in the
>morning and waking up at about noon.
>Shocking!!
>
>This week-end have promised Jenny to be "gofer"-person at one of her
>antiques fairs. So will be humping furniture and smile sweetly at
>arrogant punters.....
>
>Found my Elskus book, found my Reyntiens book.... all ready and eager
>to get going....
>I WILL send an e-mail to Marty at Jen-Kiln for advice, but in the
>meantime - please could you advice me how to patch up the cosmetic
>"gouges" off the exterior of my kiln. ?????
>One hinge slightly bent, lid - as a result - slightly askew..
>Have carefully scooped up all the powdery kiln brick chips that got
>dislodged during transport.
>Have beemn thinking of using UK produced fire-proof cement to mix it
>all up and touch it up.
>On the other hand; during my travels, I noticed great big chunks
>missing out of the kilns of folks showing me their kilns and kiln
>work.
>AM I being a pernickety perfectionist, or are my concerns
>legitimate???  I would like to start off using a perfect kiln,
>without  scuff marks and ground-away bits of the exterior.
>
>Some years ago, there was a book written by the English Nobel Prize
>Winner Graham Greene (also related to a family of Brewers connected
>to my particular county in UK!!),  called "Travels With My Aunt".
>Dani has "leant" on me somewhat to write an article about  "Travels
>With My Kiln". I will do that in due course for the IGGA....
>I do however want to pluck up enough courage to have it up and
>running..... and working.....    and I WANT TO PLAY !!!!!
>
>I have already been teaching 3 evenings this last week; I am
>positively BURSTING to get up and running.
>What fire-proof compound can I use to touch up the exterior of my
>precious , hand-carried kiln...? (Pending Marty's advice....)
>
>
>Which reminds me, I promised to forward a reference to Debbie Dog,
>the Pomeranian. I brought back with me a couple of pattern books of
>dogs. One of which is called "Dog'Gone de Mello", by Randy de Mello
>(cost USD. 11.95) On page  44/45, there is a Pomeranian design.
>ISBN: 0-9615939-4-6.
>Published by Hixson Studios, P.O.Box. 3202, Grass Valley, CA
>95945-3202
>I hope that Mummy of Debbie Dog can make use of this.........
>Much Love to you. In UK there is a saying....."A Dog is for LIFE, and
>not just for Christmas......"
>
>Much Love to you all.
>Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
>
>> I wouldn't trade my $200 badger brush for
>> any airbrush set-up!  Wouldn't work with the
>> glass painting technique I use anyway.... I
>> do my oil painting with a brush, too!  All my
>> painting, come to think of it.... this is one of
>> those situations where the very best tool =
>>
>> does make a huge difference.  Kind of like
>> the difference between really expensive water
>> color paper and the cheap stuff....
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Dani Greer (who has a good airbrush languishing
>> in a box somewhere.... I think....)
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>
>>
>----
>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
>----
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

----
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From owner-glass Sun Oct 10 15:52:19 1999
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X-Path: email.msn.com!bird_cage
From: "Doug Parrott" <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
To: "bungi group" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: chat, ebay
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 15:14:41 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct10.81441.0>
Precedence: bulk

Suzanne,

Were you successful with e-bay?   Did you set up a reserve?   How long did
it take you to receive payment.   I have been thinking of using e-bay as
well.

Cheryl
The Glass Parrott
bird_cage@msn.com



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From owner-glass Sun Oct 10 17:20:03 1999
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X-Path: waterw.com!artglass
From: "pj friend" <artglass@waterw.com>
To: "Dani Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: chat, ebay
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 19:31:55 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct10.153155.0>
Precedence: bulk

There is a site at www.wholesale.com.  Check it out.  I think its what you
are looking for.

my best,
pj

Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc.
www.waterw.com/~artglass
Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America
Member International Guild of Glass Artists
Associate Member AIA
-----Original Message-----
From: alipea <alipearson@webtv.net>
To: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
Date: Sunday, October 10, 1999 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: chat, ebay


>someone i knew a year ago hed set up an craftr/artisan mall.
>unfrtunately i don't have his number or web address.  His first name was
>perry.
>
>Ali
>
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Sun Oct 10 17:39:25 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Doug Parrott <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: chat, ebay
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 18:42:40 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Oct10.134240.0>
References: <<1999Oct10.81441.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I havent had any problem with payment arriving.  I now only accept money
orders or cashier checks, however.  The bank explained there just isnt a
good way to know when a particular check clears.

I start my bids at my botttom line acceptable price.  For some that
would be their wholesale price, I guess.  I havent put anything on in
quite awhile, but really need to.  I had some of my fan pulls on, and
although none of those were specifically bid on, I sold a couple dozen
to a few people who emailed me asking 
if I would sell to them in quantity! ;o)  One wanted special colors. 
She chose the designs she wanted, and colors, sent the check and I had
them made when the check arrived! 

One was a gallery owner.  She and I have done business since.

I've played around a little with what catagory I list things in.  Maybe
home furnishings, stained glass, offered by artist...etc...using
counters on the pages to see which would get most hits.

I dont use a reserve price anymore, because you pay more for the ad, and
it is frustrating for the buyer IMHO because they have no clue what is
acceptable to you.  I'd rather it just be all out in the open.  This is
what I want...let's go from there kind of thing.  My starting bid is my
reserve. 

If I can help Cheryl, let me know.  Honesty.com offers free counters.  I
upload my pictures to a geocities/yahoo site.

Suzanne

Doug Parrott wrote:
> 
> Suzanne,
> 
> Were you successful with e-bay?   Did you set up a reserve?   How long did
> it take you to receive payment.   I have been thinking of using e-bay as
> well.
> 
> Cheryl
> The Glass Parrott
> bird_cage@msn.com
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Sun Oct 10 18:05:58 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Doug Parrott" <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: chat, ebay
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 20:11:20 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct10.161120.0>
Precedence: bulk

We're talking about putting some =

IGGA products on eBay.... our IGGA
t-shirts and our new and very cool logo
aprons.  Will let you knowwhen we do =

and how it turns out.....

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
International Guild of Glass Artists
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From owner-glass Sun Oct 10 18:54:11 1999
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X-Path: juno.com!mschatee
From: mschatee@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: PA Retailer
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 20:56:10 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Oct11.05610.0>
Precedence: bulk

I'm going to be in Feasterville, PA in 2 weeks.  My friend is buying a
house and I would like to make a stained glass panel for a house warming
gift.  What I would like to do is take him to a stained glass
retailer/supplier so that he can pick out the glass he wants for the new
house, he won't be moving until December and I won't know the exact
shades..
Anyway I'd like to do business with a Bungian, rather than a stranger. 
It's weird even though I've never met any of you I know that if I came
into your store I would get the royal treatment.  Especially after
hearing of all the comraderie on the E-tour.  So if any of you have a
retail store that's open on Saturdays and Sundays and are in the vicinity
of Feasterville, Southhampton, WIllow Grove, Hatboro, Horsham ( I think
those are the only towns in the area I know the names of) please send me
the names and addresses and phone numbers, also the hours you're open on
Saturdays and Sundays.

Thanks,
Caren

___________________________________________________________________
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Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
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From owner-glass Sun Oct 10 20:09:25 1999
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X-Path: home.com!kristc
From: "Kris" <kristc@home.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: chat, ebay
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 22:38:19 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct10.183819.0>
References: <<1999Oct10.134240.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I second everything Suzanne said! Be sure you have your money before you
ship and charge the buyer for insured shipping. Once in a while you get some
turkey.

It seems to me that most work goes for wholesale prices because people who
shop there are looking for bargains. A friend of mine has had some success
though, especially when she hits on something that generates interest. Then
she emails all the other bidders and offers them the item ("I just happen to
have one more...")  She, like Suzanne, has also developed relationships that
have resulted in other business.

We have a lot of ebay experience, not with glass but other stuff. If we can
help anyone let me know. I can also host pictures if anyone needs a place to
put them. Some auctions include a link to the person's website. That way if
the person likes what they see but maybe don't want that particular item,
they can go look at more of your work and maybe see something else they
would buy.

Kris

 >
> I start my bids at my botttom line acceptable price.  For some that
> would be their wholesale price, I guess.
> Suzanne


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From owner-glass Sun Oct 10 22:02:42 1999
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: chat, ebay
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 21:30:53 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct10.143053.0>
References: <<1999Oct10.183819.0>>
Organization: weaver51@teleport.com
Precedence: bulk

I have been using ebay both buying and selling.....(not proud of it, but
have gotten as much as $30 EACH for some of the beanie-baby bears in full
bags of 12).
I also try to get "checks ok" somewhere in the title, as it is an incentive
to the buyer not to have to get a money order. You can wait as long as 10
days to see if the personal check clears
IMHO how you list the stuff you have for sale is VERY important.
Take some time and play with the site....search for stuff, look at the
listings, and see what gets your attention

I do not do a reserve when  list an item, but start at the minimum I would
take for the item I have listed when selling.

When buying, you have to decide how much you will pay to start, is it worth
it and at what point do you stop bidding. Easy to get caught up in "I have
to have it".

When buying, I usually bid low where there is a reserve and e-mail the
seller privately if the minimum is not realized.

It is also a good idea to contact the second and third bidders if their bid
is close to the wining one. Sell to them for the highest bid price, too.

SHIPPING and INSURANCE is ALWAYS expected to be paid by the winning bidder.
USPS Priority Insured is cheap and easy and the PO even supplies a range of
boxes FREE!

One more note: USE EBAY often, I have stock in the company!

enjoy, H

weaver51@teleport.com
Elaine and Howard
best lamps on the "net":
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard

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From owner-glass Mon Oct 11 05:49:54 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!AbbieN2Glass
From: AbbieN2Glass@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Itty bitty paint for glass?
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:28:15 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Oct11.112815.0>
Precedence: bulk

 Hey group, Is there a special paint I need to use for a stray seagull or 
blade of grass I want to add to my nightlights that will be fairly durable? 
Thanks in advance...Abbie in Va.
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From owner-glass Mon Oct 11 06:02:59 1999
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X-Path: juno.com!mschatee
From: mschatee@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Funny looking iron tip
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 08:31:45 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Oct11.123145.0>
Precedence: bulk

My solder iron tip is starting to look funny.  The bottom is mostly ok,
it's tinned but there appears to be a dead spot in it.  I turn it over so
it's not really bothering me.  But the upper part of the tip is looking
like leopard spots all over it.  Is this something that needs to be taken
care of?  One more question, I have Sal Ammoniac acid, do I clean the tip
hot or cold?

Thanks,
Caren

(who you've noticed has come out of lurking twice within 24 hours)

___________________________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Mon Oct 11 07:33:56 1999
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X-Path: heesun.com!keane
From: "Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd." <keane@heesun.com>
To: <AbbieN2Glass@aol.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Itty bitty paint for glass?
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:02:16 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct11.6216.0>
Precedence: bulk

You can use either Porcelaine 150 or Liquid Crystal  both by pebeo.  Both
can also be baked.  The 150 claims " Remarkable dishwasher resistance and
excellent resistance to common detergents and solvents"  The 150 can be
baked in an oven at 300 degrees F.  The liquid crystal can be baked in an
oven at 200 degrees F for 40 minutes and is said to " Aquires all its
physio-chemical properties after one week's drying".  Both products have a
relatively nice color selection available.

Hope this helps.
Robert
Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd.
888-508-5595
http://www.heesun.com
Custom Design Studio , Supplies & Classes for Stained & Fused Glass &
Mosaics
-----Original Message-----
From: AbbieN2Glass@aol.com <AbbieN2Glass@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Monday, October 11, 1999 8:54 AM
Subject: Itty bitty paint for glass?


> Hey group, Is there a special paint I need to use for a stray seagull or
>blade of grass I want to add to my nightlights that will be fairly durable?
>Thanks in advance...Abbie in Va.
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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>

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From owner-glass Mon Oct 11 11:13:13 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: chat, ebay
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:37:43 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct11.93743.0>
Precedence: bulk



-------------Forwarded Message-----------------

From:	"Bill Warren", INTERNET:bwarren@qni.com
To:	"Dani Greer", GreerStudios
	=

Date:	10/11/99  6:27 AM

RE:	Re: chat, ebay

 =

I have used e-bay very succesfully in the past.  the real trick is to hav=
e 2
or 3 good digital photos of your work along with solid contact informatio=
n.
e-bay will walk you through the process of setting up your auction and ev=
en
allow links to your web site ( If you have one).  Remember e-bay is an
auction. In general prices are slightly lower than you might get from you=
r
studio directly.  You do have the ability to place a price minumum (calle=
d a
protect) on your austion item.  I have sold about 15 pieces on e-bay.  So=
me
auctions have been slightly lower than what I had hoped for but about 1/3=
 of
my auctions actually got a bidding war started resulting in a much higher=

final selling price.

I would suggest you start off with a couple of small pieces before you
really jump in.  Look around the site and see if you are interested.  e-b=
ay
can be a real money maker, but there are some risks involved.

Best regards
Bill Warren
----- Original Message -----
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 10, 1999 3:07 PM
Subject: chat, ebay


>
>
> -------------Forwarded Message-----------------
>
> From: Dee Thompson, INTERNET:deethom@erols.com
> To: Dani Greer, GreerStudios
> =3D
>
> Date: 10/10/99 10:18 AM
>
> RE: chat, ebay
>
>  =3D
>
> >
> >Have you tried eBay?  This is the largest (as far
> >as I know) auction site on the internet...
>
> ahhh, ok. I just never heard it called a mall.  I was envisioning a web=

> site with links to related stores or something!
> No I haven't used e bay...Has anyone on this list used it to sell any g=
la=3D
> ss?  =3D
>
> Dee
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------- Internet Header -------------------------------=
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> for <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:18:06 -0400 (EDT=
)=3D
>
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> Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:38:57 -0400
> To: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
> From: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
> Subject: chat, ebay
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D3D"us-ascii"
>
> ----
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From: "Bill Warren" <bwarren@qni.com>
To: "Dani Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
References: <1999Oct10.12720.0>
Subject: Re: chat, ebay
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:39:58 -0500
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From owner-glass Mon Oct 11 11:42:02 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd." <keane@heesun.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Itty bitty paint for glass?
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:37:45 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct11.93745.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by "Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd."
>You can use either Porcelaine 150 or Liquid Crystal  both by pebeo.  Bot=
h
can also be baked.  The 150 claims " Remarkable dishwasher resistance and=

excellent resistance to common detergents and solvents"  The 150 can be
baked in an oven at 300 degrees F.  The liquid crystal can be baked in an=

oven at 200 degrees F for 40 minutes and is said to " Aquires all its
physio-chemical properties after one week's drying".  Both products have =
a
relatively nice color selection available.
<

I have also heard that you can use plain ol' acrylics (the
tube kind from an art supply store) and bake those at
350 degrees for the same results.  Have no experience
with this, but thought I would mention to anyone who
is interested in saving some money...

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/ =

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From owner-glass Mon Oct 11 12:42:33 1999
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X-Path: technology21.com!lsg
From: <lsg@technology21.com>
To: "Wayne Parks" <bigcreek@aracnet.net>,
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: LOOK  !!!
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:52:28 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct11.105228.0>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BF13F8.3CE32700
Content-Type: text/plain;
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> > To: officestaff@frontline-vcf.org (Victory Christian Fellowship =
Office
> Staff)
> > To: pastorjohn@frontline-vcf.org (Pastor John Nuzzo)
> > To: sgamboa1@yahoo.com (Suzette Gamboa)
> >
> >
> > << Subject: FW: Microsoft and AOL Merger
> >
> > I don't usually pass on emails to friends but this one is =
interesting and
> has
> > no attachment to cause any harm so in the event that it might be =
real, I
> am
> > forwarding it to you. I am sure Microsoft can track it by the =
subject and
> I
> > am sure they have enough money to do this. I hope it is not a trick =
or
> hoax
> > but what do we have to lose?
> >
> >  > > > > > >
> >  > > > > > >I am forwarding this because the person who sent it to
> >  > > > > > >me is a good friend and does not send me junk.
> >  > > > > > >Microsoft and AOL are now the largest Internet company
> >  > > > > > >and in an effort make sure that Internet explorer
> >  > > > > > >remains the most widely used program, Microsoft and AOL
> >  > > > > > >are running an e-mail beta test. When you forward this
> >  > > > > > >e-mail to friends, Microsoft can and will track it (if
> >  > > > > > >you are a Microsoft Windows user) for a two week time
> >  > > > > > >period. For every person that you forward this e-mail
> >  > > > > > >to, Microsoft will pay you $245.00, for every person
> >  > > > > > >that you sent it to that forwards it on, Microsoft will
> >  > > > > > >pay you $243.00 and for every third person that
> >  > > > > > >receives it, you will be paid $241.00. Within two
> >  > > > > > >weeks, Microsoft will contact you for your address
> >  > > > > > >and then send you a check.  I thought this was a scam
> >  > > > > > >myself, but two weeks after receiving this e-mail
> >  > > > > > >and forwarding it on, Microsoft contacted me for my
> >  > > > > > >e-mail and within days, I received a check for
> >  > > > > > >$24800.00.
> >  > >  >>
> >
>=20
>=20

------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BF13F8.3CE32700
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3401" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&gt; &gt; To: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:officestaff@frontline-vcf.org">officestaff@frontline-vcf.o=
rg</A>=20
(Victory Christian Fellowship Office<BR>&gt; Staff)<BR>&gt; &gt; To: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:pastorjohn@frontline-vcf.org">pastorjohn@frontline-vcf.org=
</A>=20
(Pastor John Nuzzo)<BR>&gt; &gt; To: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:sgamboa1@yahoo.com">sgamboa1@yahoo.com</A> (Suzette =
Gamboa)<BR>&gt;=20
&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;&lt; Subject: FW: Microsoft and AOL=20
Merger<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I don't usually pass on emails to =
friends but=20
this one is interesting and<BR>&gt; has<BR>&gt; &gt; no attachment to =
cause any=20
harm so in the event that it might be real, I<BR>&gt; am<BR>&gt; &gt; =
forwarding=20
it to you. I am sure Microsoft can track it by the subject and<BR>&gt; =
I<BR>&gt;=20
&gt; am sure they have enough money to do this. I hope it is not a trick =

or<BR>&gt; hoax<BR>&gt; &gt; but what do we have to lose?<BR>&gt; =
&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;=20
&gt; &gt;I am forwarding this because the person who sent it to<BR>&gt;=20
&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;me is a good friend and does not =
send me=20
junk.<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;Microsoft and AOL =
are now=20
the largest Internet company<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;and=20
in an effort make sure that Internet explorer<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;=20
&gt; &gt; &gt;remains the most widely used program, Microsoft and =
AOL<BR>&gt;=20
&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;are running an e-mail beta test. =
When=20
you forward this<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;e-mail =
to=20
friends, Microsoft can and will track it (if<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;=20
&gt; &gt; &gt;you are a Microsoft Windows user) for a two week =
time<BR>&gt;=20
&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;period. For every person that =
you=20
forward this e-mail<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;to,=20
Microsoft will pay you $245.00, for every person<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt; =
&gt;=20
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;that you sent it to that forwards it on, Microsoft=20
will<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;pay you $243.00 and =
for=20
every third person that<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;receives=20
it, you will be paid $241.00. Within two<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt;=20
&gt; &gt;weeks, Microsoft will contact you for your address<BR>&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp;=20
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;and then send you a check.&nbsp; I thought =
this was=20
a scam<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;myself, but two =
weeks=20
after receiving this e-mail<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt;and=20
forwarding it on, Microsoft contacted me for my<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &gt; =
&gt;=20
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;e-mail and within days, I received a check =
for<BR>&gt;=20
&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;$24800.00.<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; =
&gt;=20
&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; =
</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Mon Oct 11 14:12:42 1999
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: mschatee@juno.com
Subject: Re: Funny looking iron tip
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:32:39 +0100
Message-ID: <1999Oct11.223239.0>
References: <<1999Oct11.123145.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

Caren
        Others may have different methods for cleaning their soldering
bits.  Here is mine.  I clean my soldering bit when it is hot with a
brass wire brush (steel wire is too harsh).  Then I re-tin it.  If this
is not enough, I put it (still full on) onto the sal ammoniac block and
rub it until the block is smoking and the bit looks bright, use the
brush again, and then melt some solder onto the block and roll the
solder under the bit.  It takes time but works.  Others I have heard
make a solution of the sal ammoniac and plunge the iron's bit into it
while hot  -  sounds dangerous to me.

Steve
-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Mon Oct 11 14:42:24 1999
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X-Path: capecod.net!jaugusta
From: Joseph Augusta <jaugusta@capecod.net>
To: glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Crystal clear epoxy?
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:29:27 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct11.132927.0>
Precedence: bulk

Anyone know of a manufacturer of crystal clear glass to glass, glass to
metal epoxy?

Best wishes,
Joseph

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From owner-glass Mon Oct 11 16:45:49 1999
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From: Brad Walker <mbwalker@ix.netcom.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Hot wire cutter
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:24:18 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct11.152418.0>
Precedence: bulk

Does anyone have instructions that would help me build a hot wire cutter
that's capable of cutting through styrofoam?  I'm thinking of a straight
wire that I can somehow heat up (rheostat and what else?).  A lightning
bug has more electrical skill than I do, but I'm willing to try anything
once --just need someone with enough knowledge to keep me from
electrocuting myself.

(Yes, this is a glass post.  I'm want to make styroform molds to make my
own murrini.)

Brad Walker

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From owner-glass Mon Oct 11 17:14:30 1999
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From: Jaaquets@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Itty bitty paint for glass?
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:38:52 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Oct11.233852.0>
Precedence: bulk

"You can use plain ol' acrylics (the tube kind from an art supply store) and 
bake those at 350 degrees for the same results."       I do know that this 
works on glazed ceramics, the same method should work on glass.
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From owner-glass Mon Oct 11 17:31:16 1999
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X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods
From: "Tim Atwood" <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Crystal clear epoxy?
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:49:56 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct11.94956.0>
References: <<1999Oct11.132927.0>>
Organization: Holtenwood Studios
Precedence: bulk

How long and under what conditions do you need before it yellows?  I have
not yet found one that stays crystal clear for more than a couple of years
if exposed to strong sun.

Also, my experience is that most will yellow almost instantly if exposed to
anything close to standard soldering temperatures.  I am working on getting
information from a friend for one that the friend says does not have this
problem.  When I have the brand I will post it to bungi.  Someone else asked
for it also - I have that message saved and I will post the answer to you
when I have it.

For mosaic work, the best glue for crystal clarity over a long period and
resisting "lightbulb" (lamp) temperatures still seems to be Bond 527.  It is
not an epoxy, but it sure seems to work.  Bond 527 is pretty toxic until it
dries though.  If you want a good scare, just read the MSDS on Bond 527.

----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Augusta <jaugusta@capecod.net>
To: glass <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 2:29 PM
Subject: Crystal clear epoxy?


> Anyone know of a manufacturer of crystal clear glass to glass, glass to
> metal epoxy?
>
> Best wishes,
> Joseph
>
> ----
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From owner-glass Mon Oct 11 17:49:46 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu
From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Brad Walker" <mbwalker@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Hot wire cutter
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:11:46 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct11.101146.0>
Precedence: bulk

>>Does anyone have instructions that would help me build a hot wire cutter
that's capable of cutting through styrofoam? <<

Not a very good idea. You would need a piece of nichrome resistance wire of
the correct resistance for the heat desired. Just to hard to do safely.

How about heating your wire on the kitchen stove burner. Cheap and only a
burn hazard from which you will recover much more reliably than electrical
shock.

Bob in SOCAL

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From owner-glass Mon Oct 11 19:19:40 1999
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X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods
From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Joseph Augusta" <jaugusta@capecod.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Epoxies
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:37:17 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct11.113717.0>
References: <<19991009205212.22606.rocketmail@web219.mail.yahoo.com>>
Precedence: bulk

OK, here are the answers:

My friend has been using Epoxies Etc. 20-3300 heat cure (2 hours @ 145
Celsius) 1:1 two part epoxy.  Water clear.  No noticeable degradation
heating bonded metal to soldering temperatures.  Bonds to most materials.
Tensile strength 7500 psi, compressive strength 20,000 psi.

Epoxies Etc.: 1-800-EPOXIES or http://www.epoxies.com.  These people make
literally hundreds of epoxy formulations.  My friend is getting the 20-3300
from a third-party industrial electronics supplier so has not checked if
Epoxies Etc. themselves have anything else easier to use.

The 2 hour cure time seems a bit fiddly and costly to me.  The 1:1 mix is
easy though and it appears proportioning does not have to be too exact.  My
research also seems to indicate that in general an epoxy that handles high
temperatures will also be a high temperature cure.

There are a few clear room temperature cure clear epoxies that claim decent
heat resistance listed below.  I have not tried all of them out though.

Crystal Clear Epoxies:

There is of course the standard Devcon "2-Ton Epoxy" available almost
everywhere.  Tends to yellow in sunlight though and will not withstand high
temperatures.  Also yellows over time in dishwashers.  For indoor
applications without direct sun it can not be beat for ease of use,
versatility, strength, and adequate clarity.

Hysol 609 is ultra clear without yellowing.  They are targeting aircraft
cockpit lighting panel repairs so they guarantee continued clarity for
something like 20 years.  Good chemical resistance.  5 minute cure.
Excellent bond to most materials.  Shear strength 2800 psi. Maximum service
temp 82 Celsius.  This is what I use when I need a crystal clear epoxy.
http://hysol.com .

Nexus Adhesive Corp.'s Nexbond 7xxx series for fibre optic applications is
the ultimate in absolute crystal clarity for years.  Optically clear with
>99% transmission from 349 to 1600 nm in a 0.01-in. bondline.  Nexbond 7000
has the higher temperature ratings, adhesion, and strength.  Nexbond 7200 is
apparently lower odor and safer to work with but at a compromise in
strength.  I suspect these are pretty pricey though and I could not find a
web site.

----- Original Message -----
From: barbara elmore <barbaraelmore@yahoo.com>
To: <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 1999 1:52 PM
Subject: epoxy on box hinge


<snip>
>Could you please check with your
> friend and ask her/him what brand of epoxy they use?
<snip>

----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Augusta <jaugusta@capecod.net>
To: glass <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 2:29 PM
Subject: Crystal clear epoxy?


> Anyone know of a manufacturer of crystal clear glass to glass, glass to
> metal epoxy?
<snip>

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From owner-glass Mon Oct 11 19:49:36 1999
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X-Path: ghostman.com!candy
From: "Candy Thurman" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Tim Atwood" <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Crystal clear epoxy?
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 99 07:01:18 
Message-ID: <199910120108.TAA24534@mantis.privatei.com>
Precedence: bulk


Tim, how about just posting it to Bungi when you get the results?

Candy
On Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:49:56 -0700, Tim Atwood wrote:

>Also, my experience is that most will yellow almost instantly if exposed to
>anything close to standard soldering temperatures.  I am working on getting
>information from a friend for one that the friend says does not have this
>problem.  When I have the brand I will post it to bungi.  Someone else asked
>for it also - I have that message saved and I will post the answer to you
>when I have it.

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From owner-glass Mon Oct 11 20:15:54 1999
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X-Path: mediaone.net!izzy3
From: Michael Smoucha <izzy3@mediaone.net>
To: Tina Booth <TMacnicol@xtra.co.nz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Copyrite and double glazing
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:59:05 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Oct11.15595.0>
References: <<1999Oct11.53943.0>>
Precedence: bulk



Tina Booth wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I am in the proceeds of designing a large window for a gable end in a
> log cabin.  I have two questions:
>
> 2. The owner wants the gable end window double glazed.  Do I put the
> window infront of the glazed unit and if so will it condesate up?

Dry set the panel to the interior allowing space all around for air
convection. This if done properly should alleviate condensation. To execute
use a foam setting tape cutting one inch gaps every 8"-12" all around at the
parting stop.Use the foam tape to the finish stop gapping in same areas.
make sure the panel is installed on setting blocks. Do not seal the
interior. If you like you can put either filter material or fine brass
hardware cloth at the gaps to stop insect infiltration.

ms

>
>

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From owner-glass Mon Oct 11 20:33:01 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: chat, ebay
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:47:42 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct11.184742.0>
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Here's another one:

Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Tue Oct 12 01:59:14 1999
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From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Hot wire cutter
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:16:51 +0100
Message-ID: <1999Oct12.101651.0>
Precedence: bulk

At 17:11 11/10/99 -0700, Bob in SOCAL wrote:
>>>Does anyone have instructions that would help me build a hot wire cutter
>that's capable of cutting through styrofoam? <<
>
>Not a very good idea. You would need a piece of nichrome resistance wire of
>the correct resistance for the heat desired. Just to hard to do safely.
Have you tried your nearest hobby/craft shop?
We bought ours a couple of years ago and it only cost a few pounds.
Works well and with the BSS mark you know it has been tested for safety.
EliZabeth in Bournemouth
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk

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From owner-glass Tue Oct 12 05:35:50 1999
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X-Path: capecod.net!jaugusta
From: Joseph Augusta <jaugusta@capecod.net>
To: Brad Walker <mbwalker@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Hot wire cutter
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:01:56 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct12.4156.0>
References: <<1999Oct11.152418.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Brad Walker wrote:

> Does anyone have instructions that would help me build a hot wire cutter
> that's capable of cutting through styrofoam?

Don't electrocute yourself!  The Dick Blick catalog has a styrofoam cutter
called the Wonder Cutter for about $8 that runs on batteries and cuts to 2"
thick--800-447-8192.

Best wishes,
Joseph

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From owner-glass Tue Oct 12 07:10:53 1999
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X-Path: one.net!gwood
From: "Gregg Wood" <gwood@one.net>
To: "Brad Walker" <mbwalker@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Hot wire cutter
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:46:42 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct12.54642.0>
References: <<1999Oct12.4156.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hot wire cutters do not use lethal or even mildly jolting voltage levels.
They run on low voltage (5v - 24v) high current usually DC which, unless
you do something terribly penetrating to yourself, does not pose any
type of threat.

Nickel-Chromium wire is a rather poor conductor of electricity.
That's why it gets hot.  The resistance is based on the specific alloy
and the diameter of the wire.  Nichrome is typically 80% Nickel and
20% Chromium.  At a .01 in diameter it's resistance is approximately
.580 ohms per inch of wire.

If you want to cut through 2 inches of foam you will probably want at least
3
inches of wire.  This will give a total resistance of about 1.74 ohms.

Applying 12v across this 3 inch wire will provide a little over 80 watts of
heat.
I have no idea how much wattage you need to cut 2 inches of Styrofoam.
although I assume 80 watts is WAY over kill.  This is where a little
experimentation comes in.  When the wire get hot, it will loose its strength
so it is a careful balancing act between enough heat and not

As the Nichrome heats up, it's resistance will drop.  As it's resistance
drops,
it will heat up more.  Vicious cycle.  This is limited by the power source
you
use to drive it.  Ideally it should be a current controlled source, but a
simple
variable DC supply capable of 12V at 3-7 amps.  Again, 7 amps is probably
overkill.  I'm thinking 3 would be fine.

THIS IS BASED ON A SPECIFIC DIAMETER WIRE.  If that changes so
does everything else.  If you are interested in the specific calculations
let me know & I'll poof some up for you.  The math is pretty simple.

Don't worry about electrocution.  Just stay away from the pointy end of
plug that goes into the wall and stay away from anything over 12 volts.

-G

Here is a link to a nichrome supplier:
http://www.sisweb.com/ms/sis/wire3.htm
This is just one I found.

> > Does anyone have instructions that would help me build a hot wire cutter
> > that's capable of cutting through styrofoam?



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From owner-glass Tue Oct 12 11:50:16 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!Benwyd
From: Benwyd@aol.com
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: classes
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:18:56 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Oct12.181856.0>
Precedence: bulk

Interested in learning how to make stained glass.
Any idea of classes in the New York area?
Thanks for the help.
Ben Wydra
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From owner-glass Tue Oct 12 12:46:41 1999
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X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods
From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Epoxies
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:08:47 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct12.5847.0>
Precedence: bulk

I forgot to mention:

If you decide you need the absolute clarity of an optically clear epoxy such
as the one list below, make sure you order the version without added dye.
For fibre optic applications they are often sold with colour coded dyes
added so that different connections can be recognized by the colour coding.
The dyes only reflect certain light frequencies not used in fibre optics,
but they add visual colour and they would sure mess you up if you did not
want this.

The exact same epoxies are generally sold without added dyes for medical and
chemical equipment (i.e. spectral analysis, etc.).  If you want to find
something like this, I might try medical and chemical equipment suppliers.
You might also try Edmund Scientific and other such suppliers.  I also
suspect camera clubs, specialty photo suppliers and astronomy clubs might
have or know about something very similar for attaching lenses and view
finder prisms.

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim & Adriana Atwood <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>; Joseph Augusta <jaugusta@capecod.net>; barbara
elmore <barbaraelmore@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 6:37 PM
Subject: Epoxies


<snip>
> Nexus Adhesive Corp.'s Nexbond 7xxx series for fibre optic applications is
> the ultimate in absolute crystal clarity for years.  Optically clear with
> >99% transmission from 349 to 1600 nm in a 0.01-in. bondline.  Nexbond
7000
> has the higher temperature ratings, adhesion, and strength.  Nexbond 7200
is
> apparently lower odor and safer to work with but at a compromise in
> strength.  I suspect these are pretty pricey though and I could not find a
> web site.
<snip>


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From owner-glass Tue Oct 12 13:56:15 1999
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X-Path: isis7.de!sewing
From: sewing@isis7.de
To: sewing@isis7.de
Subject: Unsold Orders of SEW & Serge Sewing Machines!
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:03:35 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <199910122003.NAA24266@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Precedence: bulk



There isn't any need to reply to this message to be 
removed from our mailing list. This is a 1 time mailing, 
you will not be contacted again. Thank You for your patience.  
 
 


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To View the Machine Click Below
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or Visit
http://216.33.255.28/ak3/sew123
_________________________________
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From owner-glass Tue Oct 12 14:16:37 1999
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X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen
From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Copyrite and double glazing
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:23:25 -0700
Message-ID: <E11b8SC-000ItX-00@mail2.uniserve.com>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Tina,
There has been alot of good info on copyright laws in the archives, but this
is what I know...

A photograph has an effective copyright of 50 years after the negative has
been made. A General copyright is 50 years *plus* the creators life. After
this time the works are in the public's domain.
Sometimes as artists we breach the rights of other artists, but there is a
right and wrong way to use other people's material. 
-You can copy material for private study, research and review(newspaper
summary).
-You can reproduce the forms of buildings, as long as you don't reproduce
the architectural design or plans.
-You are allowed to make use of sketches, models, casts, or plans if you do
not repeat or imitate the main design of the original design.
-You can also reproduce artistic work which is situated in a public place
FOR EXAMPLE you can photograph a sculpture outside City Hall.
-Computer programs are considered literary works regardless of medium of
expression. You may make backup copies and modify the program for your needs
BUT sharing your program is a NO-NO.

Canada is a Berne Convention country, which means copyright is automatic (as
in any Berne country), here all you need, is to produce the work and you are
automatically protected. In the USA and some others, it's an Universal
Copyright Convention country...where your work must have the copyright
symbol, year of the creation, his or her name conspicously in place or
offically registered in that country, otherwise considered to be in the
public domain. So watch yourself if you think your work will reach other
shores or borders.

>From what I know and understand, in areas of the world not under any
Convention, they have the most prosperous *grey markets* (imitations/copies).
 
These guidelines are basic and just for general information and should not
replace professional council (copyright lawyer). Copyright infringement is
serious business! The information that I have supplied is from courses I've
taken in visual arts pertinent to artists preparing for exhibition,
contracts and gallery representations four years ago. Hopefully my info is
not outdated and again no substitute for legal consultation.
Last but not least (don't mean to bore or sound pompous), ya can't copyright
an idea...only *fixed* work can be copyrighted. 
A performance is not considered fixed and can not be copyrighted, but a
video or choreography of the performance can be.
Have a great day!
Cindy

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From owner-glass Tue Oct 12 14:53:21 1999
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X-Path: waterw.com!artglass
From: "pj friend" <artglass@waterw.com>
To: "Candy Thurman" <candy@ghostman.com>, "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Crystal clear epoxy?
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:22:04 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct12.13224.0>
Precedence: bulk

We use to very powerful adhesives.  One is hextal.  A two part adhesive with
a curing time of seven days.  At a controlled temperature.  Does an
unbelievable job.  We use to make glass furniture with 1 inch plate glass.
Worked like a charm and does not yellow.  I will have to look up who sells
it now.  Conservation Materials use to handle it but I think they sold out
to someone.
We also use a ultra violet adhesive from Dewey.  I swear by it.  Industrial
strenght.  But you need a real ultra violet light to use with it.  The lamp
alone will run you about a couple hundred dollars.  But again ....doesn't
yellow and works.

Let me know if you want me to list the phone numbers for these.

my best,
pj

Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc.
www.waterw.com/~artglass
Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America
Member International Guild of Glass Artists
Associate Member AIA
-----Original Message-----
From: Candy Thurman <candy@ghostman.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>; Tim Atwood <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
Date: Monday, October 11, 1999 11:11 PM
Subject: Re: Crystal clear epoxy?


>
>Tim, how about just posting it to Bungi when you get the results?
>
>Candy
>On Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:49:56 -0700, Tim Atwood wrote:
>
>>Also, my experience is that most will yellow almost instantly if exposed
to
>>anything close to standard soldering temperatures.  I am working on
getting
>>information from a friend for one that the friend says does not have this
>>problem.  When I have the brand I will post it to bungi.  Someone else
asked
>>for it also - I have that message saved and I will post the answer to you
>>when I have it.
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>

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From owner-glass Tue Oct 12 15:44:36 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: NG- Help me contact someone
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:05:10 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct12.14510.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone,

Sorry this is not glass-related.... I am
having trouble reaching Pamela =

Dimitrovich.  Pamela all your mail is
bouncing... could you get in touch  with
me?  Thanks.

Best,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Tue Oct 12 16:03:48 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Epoxies
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:04:57 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct12.14457.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by "Tim & Adriana Atwood"
>I might try medical and chemical equipment suppliers.
You might also try Edmund Scientific and other such suppliers.<

The Conservator's Emporium sells various glues including
Hxtal NYL-1 which is "of exceptionally light color and =

yellows the least of any epoxy known.  The primary use
of Hxtal is glass and china mending"....It is also exceptionally
expensive and used most often in the museum environment.
They have all kinds of other cool stuff, too.... like gold leaf,
and hide glue, and oleic acid, and dry pigments.... <sigh>

Address is: 100 Standing Rock Circle, Reno, NV 89511
(702)852-0404.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Tue Oct 12 18:16:52 1999
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X-Path: webtv.net!ACASADO
From: ACASADO@webtv.net (Ali Casado)
To: GreerStudios@compuserve.com (Dani Greer), Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: NG- Help me contact someone
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 20:31:41 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1999Oct12.163141.0>
References: <<GreerStudios@compuserve.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Danie,
I'm  getting really worried about Pamela.  Last week she and I Emailed
each other 4-5 times a day.   We had alot to discuss and she asked for
my phone # and she gave me hers.  We spoke over email Friday night and
she said she was going to call me early evening Saturday.  I never heard
from her.  I Emailed her last night, as I was concerned about her, and I
haven't heard one word.  I even mentioned it to my husband.  We were
"speaking" non-stop and then nothing.
She mentioned a person by the name of Pat who is a bungian lives 4 miles
from her.  Do you know who she is talking about?  Maybe someone who
lives close enough to her can check up on her.  I'm really worried.
Danie, if you hear anything, please let me know.

Ali :=)

----
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From owner-glass Tue Oct 12 18:51:29 1999
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X-Path: waterw.com!artglass
From: "pj friend" <artglass@waterw.com>
To: "bungi group" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: !!!!!! ~ International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. Merchandise Available Now ~ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:34:27 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct12.173427.0>
Precedence: bulk

                    Do You Holiday Shopping Early+ACEAIQAhACEAIQAh-
        Looking for a Gift for Your Favorite Glass Artist ?????
                              (or just for yourself)

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The International Guild of Glass Artist is proud to announce a new
line of merchandise available exclusively today to our online members.


+ACEAIQAhACEAIQ-This months' featured items +ACEAIQAh-

Artistic 50+ACU- cotton-50+ACU- polyester white t-shirts silk-screened with
our IGGA logo and mission statement. Featuring in full +AFs-four+AF0- color
the artwork of IGGA founding Chairman Gerry Phibbs.

Available in sizes Medium, Large, X-Large and XX-Large

+ACQ-20.00 USD plus 4.00 shipping and handling.

International Orders please ask for shipping charges

Please email Christie Wood and reserve your T-shirt today at
ensembles+AEA-compuserve.com



Wonderful Basic Black Work Aprons with IGGA logo in titanium white.
A must for every Glass Artist.

This 3/4 length +ACI-can't be without+ACI- apron has an adjustable neck and
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International orders please ask for shipping charges.



To reserve your apron today please email Christie Wood at
ensembles+AEA-compuserve.com - Dani Greer at greerstudios+AEA-compuserve.com
or pj friend at artglass+AEA-waterw.com


Or send your check or money order with a copy of this email to:



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phone/ 215.699.9131

fax/ 215.699.1678



Visa and MasterCard Accepted on phone orders only



Money raised from sale of all merchandise to benefit the  IGGA
publication of Common Ground Glass.





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From owner-glass Tue Oct 12 21:52:09 1999
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X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve
From: Steve Wernecke <steve@villagesoftsmith.com>
To: ACASADO@webtv.net, Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: NG- Help me contact someone
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:32:36 -0700
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991012213236.00971a20@mail.villagesoftsmith.com>
Precedence: bulk

If Pamela lives in Michigan, there's a bungi Pat whose e-mail address is
CncptThnkr@aol.com.

Steve

At 08:31 PM 10/12/99 -0400, Ali Casado wrote:
>Danie,
>I'm  getting really worried about Pamela.  Last week she and I Emailed
>each other 4-5 times a day.   We had alot to discuss and she asked for
>my phone # and she gave me hers.  We spoke over email Friday night and
>she said she was going to call me early evening Saturday.  I never heard
>from her.  I Emailed her last night, as I was concerned about her, and I
>haven't heard one word.  I even mentioned it to my husband.  We were
>"speaking" non-stop and then nothing.
>She mentioned a person by the name of Pat who is a bungian lives 4 miles
>from her.  Do you know who she is talking about?  Maybe someone who
>lives close enough to her can check up on her.  I'm really worried.
>Danie, if you hear anything, please let me know.
>
>Ali :=)
>

----
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From owner-glass Tue Oct 12 22:22:50 1999
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X-Path: xtra.co.nz!TMacnicol
From: Tina Booth <TMacnicol@xtra.co.nz>
To: Glass List <glass@bungi.com.>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Hot wire cutter
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:45:25 +1300
Message-ID: <1999Oct13.24525.0>
References: <<1999Oct11.152418.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Brad,

I bought a very basic kitset styrofoam cutter for just a few dollars, from a
hobby and model shop a few years back.  It used a battery and a simple
circuit with a metal plate that I pushed down to connect the system and heat
the wire.  Maybe a store near you will have one that, at the very least you
can view for ideas??

Good Luck
--
     -Tina Booth-
-Knowledge is true opinion-
       -Plato-


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From owner-glass Tue Oct 12 23:53:58 1999
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X-Path: island.net!seaspray
From: seaspray@island.net (synergyglass)
To: ACASADO@webtv.net (Ali Casado)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: NG- Help me contact someone
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:14:41 -0700
Message-ID: <199910130514.WAA18672@mimas.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

>Danie,
>I'm  getting really worried about Pamela.  Last week she and I Emailed
>each other 4-5 times a day.   We had alot to discuss and she asked for
>my phone # and she gave me hers.  We spoke over email Friday night and
>she said she was going to call me early evening Saturday.  I never heard
>from her.  I Emailed her last night, as I was concerned about her, and I
>haven't heard one word.  I even mentioned it to my husband.  We were
>"speaking" non-stop and then nothing.
>She mentioned a person by the name of Pat who is a bungian lives 4 miles
>from her.  Do you know who she is talking about?  Maybe someone who
>lives close enough to her can check up on her.  I'm really worried.
>Danie, if you hear anything, please let me know.

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to phone?  It's very likely that she's just
had a computer crash.  I think it's overreacting for someone to go charging
over to check up. I would consider it an invasion of privacy whether I was
doing the checking or being checked up upon.

C.
Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

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From owner-glass Wed Oct 13 07:09:06 1999
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X-Path: twinwolf.net!dimitrovich
From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" <dimitrovich@twinwolf.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: NG- Help me contact someone
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:23:05 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct13.5235.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone!

I'm here! Actually, I do appreciate the fact that Ali was concerned like
that. My husband often goes away on business trips and one time I was alone
and ended up in the hospital. No one knew.

I just had a bad migraine attack. They are very serious in my case often
requiring me to go to the hospital. There is a high risk for complications
that has caused the deaths of several of the females in my family. It's a
genetic thing. They scare me very much. I have to be very careful to avoid
the "triggers" that can set them off.

So, with me being alone a lot of the time with my medical problems, I for
one, never take someone checking up on me as an invasion. I can see where
most people would but because of my personal situation I appreciate it and
was very touched. My bungi friends are turning out to be a greater bunch
that I could have hoped for. It's really nice and comforting to know that
someone I had never laid eyes on cares so much. There are some fantastic
people in this world and I'm thankful the computer allows us to know them
where geographical distances would not.

Thank you all.

Pamela (still here and ready to grab my cutter!)

-----Original Message-----
From: synergyglass <seaspray@island.net>
To: Ali Casado <ACASADO@webtv.net>
Date: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 3:07 AM
Subject: Re: NG- Help me contact someone


>>Danie,
>>I'm  getting really worried about Pamela.  Last week she and I Emailed
>>each other 4-5 times a day.   We had alot to discuss and she asked for
>>my phone # and she gave me hers.  We spoke over email Friday night and
>>she said she was going to call me early evening Saturday.  I never heard
>>from her.  I Emailed her last night, as I was concerned about her, and I
>>haven't heard one word.  I even mentioned it to my husband.  We were
>>"speaking" non-stop and then nothing.
>>She mentioned a person by the name of Pat who is a bungian lives 4 miles
>>from her.  Do you know who she is talking about?  Maybe someone who
>>lives close enough to her can check up on her.  I'm really worried.
>>Danie, if you hear anything, please let me know.
>
>Wouldn't it be more appropriate to phone?  It's very likely that she's just
>had a computer crash.  I think it's overreacting for someone to go charging
>over to check up. I would consider it an invasion of privacy whether I was
>doing the checking or being checked up upon.
>
>C.
>Carol Swann
>Synergy Glass & Creative
>www.igga.org/synergy
>seaspray@island.net
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


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From owner-glass Wed Oct 13 08:18:43 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Webomall introductory
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:01:00 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct13.610.0>
Precedence: bulk

Someone was asking about web malls.  Here's one from an aquantance of min=
e.
I am not endorsing anything, nor advertising it per say.  Just passing al=
ong the
info.  If you want to get info about this very low cost web mall, email a=
n inquiry
to: artifacteria@email.msn.com (Patricia Bennett) or visit the mall web s=
ite
at www.WEBOMALL.com

Christie Wood/Art Glass Ensembles=
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From owner-glass Wed Oct 13 08:47:00 1999
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X-Path: waterw.com!artglass
From: "pj friend" <artglass@waterw.com>
To: "bungi group" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: My Apologies
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:51:02 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct13.6512.0>
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Bungi Group,

My apologies for the garble that you received in my IGGA Merchandise
message.
For some reason my email program has been coding things.
I guess its my computer illiterate showing through.
Again I apologize and will not send any more memos until I see that they
will be received professionally.

Thank you.
my best,
pj

Paul Friend Architectural Glass +ACY- Design, Inc.
www.waterw.com/+AH4-artglass
Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America
Member International Guild of Glass Artists
Associate Member AIA

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From owner-glass Wed Oct 13 09:06:22 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!mbwalker
From: Brad Walker <mbwalker@ix.netcom.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Crystal clear epoxy?
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:52:16 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct13.65216.0>
References: <<1999Oct12.13224.0>>
Precedence: bulk

HIS Glassworks sell hxtal and their site has some good info about using it and
using UV glues.  These aren't cheap, but just about everything I've read says
that hxtal is the best glass epoxy available.

Link at: http://www.hisglassworks.com/glue.html

Brad Walker


pj friend wrote:

> We use to very powerful adhesives.  One is hextal.  A two part adhesive with
> a curing time of seven days.  At a controlled temperature.  Does an
> unbelievable job.  We use to make glass furniture with 1 inch plate glass.
> Worked like a charm and does not yellow.  I will have to look up who sells
> it now.  Conservation Materials use to handle it but I think they sold out
> to someone.
> We also use a ultra violet adhesive from Dewey.  I swear by it.  Industrial
> strenght.  But you need a real ultra violet light to use with it.  The lamp
> alone will run you about a couple hundred dollars.  But again ....doesn't
> yellow and works.
>
> Let me know if you want me to list the phone numbers for these.
>
> my best,
> pj
>
> Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc.
> www.waterw.com/~artglass
> Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America
> Member International Guild of Glass Artists
> Associate Member AIA
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Candy Thurman <candy@ghostman.com>
> To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>; Tim Atwood <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
> Date: Monday, October 11, 1999 11:11 PM
> Subject: Re: Crystal clear epoxy?
>
> >
> >Tim, how about just posting it to Bungi when you get the results?
> >
> >Candy
> >On Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:49:56 -0700, Tim Atwood wrote:
> >
> >>Also, my experience is that most will yellow almost instantly if exposed
> to
> >>anything close to standard soldering temperatures.  I am working on
> getting
> >>information from a friend for one that the friend says does not have this
> >>problem.  When I have the brand I will post it to bungi.  Someone else
> asked
> >>for it also - I have that message saved and I will post the answer to you
> >>when I have it.
> >
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
>
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Wed Oct 13 10:43:29 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!mbwalker
From: Brad Walker <mbwalker@ix.netcom.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Hot wire cutter
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:11:48 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct13.91148.0>
References: <<004401bf14b8$38168080$34319782@controlware.ra.rockwell.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Thanks to everyone who replied to my query about hot wire cutters with dozens of
suggestions to keep me from electrocuting myself.  I went to my local craft
store (Michael's) and found something called a Wonder Cutter by a company named
FloraCraft.  After the coupon I used, it costs four dollars and change
(batteries not included), more than ten times the cost of the materials and less
than one tenth of what it would have cost me to make something like it.

It slices through styrofoam like the proverbial hot knife -- now if only I could
find a glass cutter that cost so little and worked so well.

Brad



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From owner-glass Wed Oct 13 11:53:45 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Epoxies
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:04:30 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct13.10430.0>
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-------------Forwarded Message-----------------

From:	Dani Greer, INTERNET:GreerStudios@compuserve.com
To:	"Tim & Adriana Atwood", INTERNET:atwoods@aisl.bc.ca
	=

Date:	10/12/99  4:09 PM

RE:	Re: Epoxies

Message text written by "Tim & Adriana Atwood"
>I might try medical and chemical equipment suppliers.
You might also try Edmund Scientific and other such suppliers.<

The Conservator's Emporium sells various glues including
Hxtal NYL-1 which is "of exceptionally light color and =3D

yellows the least of any epoxy known.  The primary use
of Hxtal is glass and china mending"....It is also exceptionally
expensive and used most often in the museum environment.
They have all kinds of other cool stuff, too.... like gold leaf,
and hide glue, and oleic acid, and dry pigments.... <sigh>

Address is: 100 Standing Rock Circle, Reno, NV 89511
(702)852-0404.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Wed Oct 13 14:52:16 1999
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X-Path: xtra.co.nz!TMacnicol
From: Tina Booth <TMacnicol@xtra.co.nz>
To: Glass List <glass@bungi.com.>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Copyrite and double glazing
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:20:27 +1300
Message-ID: <1999Oct14.232027.0>
References: <<E11b8SC-000ItX-00@mail2.uniserve.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Thanks to everyone with their comments on the copy write issue.  I thought I
should explain a little clearer as to what I am doing.

The sg window is going in the gable end of a log cabin.  The window will actually
be made up of four triangular panels fitting within the log truss (inside or in
front of the double glazed unit).  The client wants an uncluttered design the
meanders through the four panels.  It is to include at least two New Zealand
native birds, some branches and leaves.  The birds are going to have to be a
little bigger than life size as the bottom of the truss is about 4 meters off the
ground floor.  The window gets the light most of the day (north facing) and is a
large feature of the living room (great room) and can be seen from the entrance,
dining and breezeway (bridge linking upstairs rooms) and second floor Library.
The window will be eye level to the second floor rooms, even though they are
minimum of 5m away.

The copy write issue was regarding the birds which I have traced from photos and
styled to suit sg.

The clients are my parents.  I designed the home for them and it is about 6
months away from being completed  (it has taken two years to date).  Log cabins
are unusual in NZ as our weather conditions makes design considerations quite
specific.  They have had many visitors already and I am presuming there will be
more to come as we get closer to completion date.

I would like to post my preliminary designs soon, and get your opinions on the
layout etc.

Any further comments is appreciated.
--
     -Tina Booth-
-Knowledge is true opinion-
       -Plato-


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From owner-glass Wed Oct 13 22:38:32 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!Rickola
From: Rickola@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Copyright info
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 00:51:18 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Oct14.45118.0>
Precedence: bulk

I was surprised to hear that the U. S. was no longer a signatory to the Berne 
Convention.   

I was also shocked to learn that the copyright symbol is once again required 
for a work to be protected.  

My surprise and shock stemmed from the inaccuracy of the information that was 
conveyed.  

While the advice was well-meaning, wrong advice just does not cut it.   

The USA has been a Berne signatory since 1988, and since that time the 
copyright symbol has been unnecessary in order to establish a copyright.  
Under Berne, copyright vests at the moment a copyrightable work is created.  
Thus, it's not necessary to use the copyright symbol.  Nevertheless, using 
the symbol and a date helps support your claim in cases of infringement.  
Advice? The best thing to do is register your work ASAP.

Here's some better advice: Take a look at a good site with plenty of accurate 
copyright information and issue discussions.

http://www.cni.org/Hforums/cni-copyright/about.html

Also, check out the US site for copyright registration details.

One more small thing, "Copywrite" is something an ad writer does.  
"Copyright" is the law that secures the exclusive right to profit from a 
work.  
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From owner-glass Wed Oct 13 23:08:48 1999
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To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: US Copyright Office Home Page
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 01:16:32 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Oct14.51632.0>
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Here's the URL.
http://lcweb.loc.gov/copyright/
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From owner-glass Thu Oct 14 01:13:21 1999
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From: Tina Booth <TMacnicol@xtra.co.nz>
To: Glass List <glass@bungi.com.>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Glass Magic software
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:25:50 +1300
Message-ID: <1999Oct15.92550.0>
References: <<3.0.5.32.19991014021104.007b31b0@mail.airmail.net>>
Precedence: bulk

To all those interested in Glass Magic software:

I have been sent an pre-release version of the glass magic program.  It is on CD
Rom.  I have been fairly busy with architectual work lately so my sg work has been
limited to thinking, planning and daydreaming.  So far I have only been able to play
with this new program for an hour or so.  I was hoping to write a bit of an
evaluation to post on bungi with the cost (US$15), probable postage plan and postage
cost.  So for those who are still keen, I haven't forgotten you.  I will endevour to
complete the review and post it over the weekend, and we shall be on our way.
Apparently it was going to be ready for release mid october.

So see you then.

--
     -Tina Booth-
-Knowledge is true opinion-
       -Plato-


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From owner-glass Thu Oct 14 01:40:26 1999
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From: Tina Booth <TMacnicol@xtra.co.nz>
To: Glass List <glass@bungi.com.>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Copyrite 
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:28:50 +1300
Message-ID: <1999Oct15.92850.0>
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Precedence: bulk

Silly me...... I suppose none of this copyrite stuff applies in NZ anyway and I
have to research NZ's laws the hard way (the non-bungi way)!
--
     -Tina Booth-
-Knowledge is true opinion-
       -Plato-


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From owner-glass Thu Oct 14 03:36:45 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: Gordon Newell <chalcot@chalcot.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Backlighting a cabinet
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:29:31 -0400
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References: <<1999Sep29.104835.0>>
Organization: Mike's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

Gordon Newell wrote:
> 
> G'Day,
> 
> Originally our new entertainment unit had two doors with plain glass
> inserts. I have since replaced these with a circular copper foil rose on a
> frosted glass background, with the rest of the panel leaded up with the
> original clear glass cut into quarters.
> 
> Now it looks fine during the day, but I would like to 'backlight' it in the
> evening.
> 
> Does the group have any suggestions, ideas, do's/don'ts?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Gordon.
> 
> ----
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maybe a painting light would work. it's a small lamp about 6" wide
shines downward. 

the main thing you have to be most concerend about is the heat build
up.  flourecent would work, but may look ugly.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making
your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are
also a lot of new Sky City pictures.
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From owner-glass Thu Oct 14 04:09:22 1999
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From: ARTIZ01@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: backlighting old stained glass window
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 06:38:25 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Oct14.103825.0>
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Old stained glass painted church windows was brought into my shop. The 
complete back of it is painted a flat black  The church wants a cabinet built 
that would be about 12" deep  and and would have lights in it, and  with 
opening for the bulbs. The
3 piece window is in cathedral style with 3 separate windows, the whole 
window is 45" x 90" . Now my question is
What kind of lights do I use so the beauty  will show through?  We laid 1 
part of the window on my 8 ft. light box that holds 2 double flourescent 
bulbs and it didn't show through very much. Any suggestions would be 
appreciated.

Thank You,
Bunny
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From owner-glass Thu Oct 14 11:00:04 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:ARTIZ01@aol.com" <ARTIZ01@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: backlighting old stained glass window
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:13:30 -0400
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Message text written by INTERNET:ARTIZ01@aol.com
>The =

complete back of it is painted a flat black <

What exactly does this mean??  The stained glass itself
is painted flat black?  Why?  That would obscure the =

light.  Please explain this further so we can give you some
good advice.  If you are referring to kiln-fired glass painting,
that is one animal.  If the paint is some other kind, it's a
whole 'nother situation.  Look forward to getting some more
details about this situation....

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
http://www.igga.org/greer
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From owner-glass Thu Oct 14 12:36:51 1999
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From: seaspray@island.net (synergyglass)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: scotty dog pattern?
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:14:31 -0700
Message-ID: <199910141714.KAA18516@mimas.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

Does anyone have a scotty dog pattern they could share with me?  I have an
order for a suncatcher and can't find a pattern or photo to work from.  Have
tried library and kid's coloring books.

Thanks

C.
Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

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From owner-glass Thu Oct 14 12:42:19 1999
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From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" <dimitrovich@twinwolf.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Elskus Book: The Art of Painting on Glass
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:22:38 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct14.92238.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone,

If anyone is interested, I found a source for this book (The Art of Painting
on Glass by Albinas Elskus) that is out of print now. They have about 6
copies left. I just ordered one.

You can find it at Hudson Glass in NY. Call 1-800-431-2964

The cost is $19.95 + just a couple of dollars for shipping. They take credit
cards so shipping could be same day if you pay that way.

Just wanted to let everyone know.

Pamela


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From owner-glass Thu Oct 14 13:15:06 1999
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From: Tina Booth <TMacnicol@xtra.co.nz>
To: Glass List <glass@bungi.com.>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: backlighting old stained glass window
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:40:41 +1300
Message-ID: <1999Oct15.214041.0>
References: <<1999Oct14.103825.0>>
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Where in the church did they come from and why were they painted black and....
what with?  These things may give you a clue as to what could work and what
probably will not.

--
     -Tina Booth-
-Knowledge is true opinion-
       -Plato-


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From owner-glass Thu Oct 14 18:17:45 1999
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From: ARTIZ01@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: painted black old glass
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:59:11 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Oct15.05911.0>
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Thanks for trying to help me. I know this sounds really goofy but the glass 
is painted and kiln fired on the inside with a beautiful scene, and the glass 
is painted a flat black on the outside. During sunlight hours the glass on 
the inside is beautiful with all the colors showing through, but on the 
outside of the church the glass is just an ugly black.  At night they put 
spotlights on the inside to show it off on the outside, then the inside is 
the ugly black. They want a frame made of oak and lights installed inside, I 
am afraid this will not work ,as I said before 4 flourescent light did 
nothing for it.  

Thanks for any help,
Bunny       Artiz01@aol.com
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From owner-glass Thu Oct 14 18:48:13 1999
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From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" <dimitrovich@twinwolf.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Elskus Book
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:57:36 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct14.165736.0>
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Hey everyone! I'm glad that my little find has helped so many of you out. I
guess they are sold out by now.

Don't you think they should have sent me mine free for that free advertising
I gave them?! I told the woman who took my order I was posting a notice to
this list because the book had been a topic of discussion a few times. She
doubted whether it would generate any sales for them. Hah!

I can't wait to get mine.

Pamela


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From owner-glass Thu Oct 14 19:56:48 1999
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From: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
To: ARTIZ01@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: painted black old glass
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 19:11:03 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct14.12113.0>
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ARTIZ01@aol.com wrote:

> Thanks for trying to help me. I know this sounds really goofy but the glass
> is painted and kiln fired on the inside with a beautiful scene, and the glass
> is painted a flat black on the outside. During sunlight hours the glass on
> the inside is beautiful with all the colors showing through, but on the
> outside of the church the glass is just an ugly black.  At night they put
> spotlights on the inside to show it off on the outside, then the inside is
> the ugly black. They want a frame made of oak and lights installed inside, I
> am afraid this will not work ,as I said before 4 flourescent light did
> nothing for it.

Have you considered paint remover?  [for the black paint <G>]

If that doesn't work, what about sandblasting the black paint off?

Bob


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From owner-glass Thu Oct 14 21:22:42 1999
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X-Path: twinwolf.net!dimitrovich
From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" <dimitrovich@twinwolf.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Printing Patterns
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:20:01 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct14.19201.0>
Precedence: bulk

What is the easiest way to print out a large pattern from my computer?

My imaging program will allow me to select sections of my blown up image to
print and then I can piece them together, but if I don't select the areas
just right it's a pain to piece it together after it's printed.

I'm hoping there is a small shareware program that will take any size image
and automatically print out the image (tiled) on however many sheets of
paper are necessary without any intervention from me. Then I can just fit
them together like a puzzle and go from there.

Am I dreaming?

Pamela


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From owner-glass Thu Oct 14 22:21:48 1999
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From: "russ hilleke" <russ_hilleke1@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Subject: I wanna beveled spider!
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:58:15 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Oct15.25815.0>
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I have a gif file of a neat stained glass window that features a
spider made from clear beveled glass.  I would like to make a
window incorporating such a beastie but I don't have the equipment
needed to create bevels.  Does anyone know of a supplier that
carries beveled spiders?

Thanks

Russ

______________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Fri Oct 15 06:02:53 1999
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From: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
To: Pamela Dimitrovich <dimitrovich@twinwolf.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Printing Patterns
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 05:37:39 -0700
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Pamela Dimitrovich wrote:

> What is the easiest way to print out a large pattern from my computer?
>
> My imaging program will allow me to select sections of my blown up image to
> print and then I can piece them together, but if I don't select the areas
> just right it's a pain to piece it together after it's printed.
>
> I'm hoping there is a small shareware program that will take any size image
> and automatically print out the image (tiled) on however many sheets of
> paper are necessary without any intervention from me. Then I can just fit
> them together like a puzzle and go from there.
>
> Am I dreaming?

No you are not dreaming.

There are two ways to go.

The first way is to find the large graphic shop in your area.  Every large
metropolitan area has at least one, but rarely more than two shops that are the
primo graphics shops of the area.  In the Silicon Valley its San Jose
Blueprint, in Houston its Texas Graphics Supply.  Just call them up, tell them
what you want, and see if they can do it.  Normally people take their files in
on zip discs these days.  Floppies will do but have very little space.  Many
places you can just email your file to them as an attachment with exact
instructions as to what you want and you'll just go pick it up ... but call
them first.  Generally they can print any file type you want.

Some file types are better than others.  TIFF and TGA are usually the best.
JPEG and GIF are NOT very good file types for this, do NOT bother with these
file types for this kind of work.

The second way to go is the CAD print shops who have large plotters and
sometimes printers.  Generally they're set up to do specific types of files
only, and you must call them.

To find these shops, just pick up the yellow pages, look up art supply, and
call the one with the biggest ads.

Don't bother with Kinko's et.al.

Oh,  be sure to ask about the price, this stuff usually isn't cheap, but it can
be done.

And another thing, 36 inches is usually the largest dimension available.  The
other dimension depends on the printing process used.  If their device uses a
roll of paper (like plotters do) then 36" by whatever length you want (the
length of the roll of paper).  Be sure to ask about this part.

And another thing ... color is expensive.  If you're just going to use this as
a pattern, make the image b/w with just lines ..... one helluva lot cheaper.

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.

Good luck.

Regards ...... Bob (the younger <G>)


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From owner-glass Fri Oct 15 06:34:44 1999
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: painted black old glass
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:54:21 EDT
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In a message dated 10/14/99 10:58:22 PM, ezbongo2@pacbell.net writes:

>[...] what about sandblasting the black paint off?

=8-O

YIKES!!!!!!!

I hope that suggestion wasn't meant seriously! Paint remover (suggested 
facetiously) might do some serious damage, but I shudder to think of what 
sandblasting would do........


Sparks
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From owner-glass Fri Oct 15 07:25:49 1999
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From: ATFSI@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re:Re:Printing Patterns
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:46:52 EDT
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2 cents..have found that the local archetects and surveyors all seem to have 
these plotters and are not usually that busy...bring coffee and cookies and 
they might run one off for you now and then..most like to play with the "big" 
plotter!

Jack
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From owner-glass Fri Oct 15 09:16:34 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: "Pamela Dimitrovich" <dimitrovich@twinwolf.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Printing Patterns
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:32:31 +0100
Message-ID: <199910151559.PAA15801@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
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Dear Pamels,

No, you are not dreaming!
However, I don't know of any shareware programme as such.
But "GlassEye" by Drafonfly is a s.g. software, which will do 
precisely what you ask.
You can check out the demo on their web-site http//:www.dfly.com

My Best Wishes
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
 (who has now over 200 e-mails to reply to and about 25 snail-
letters to do, as well as a few extra Toby T-shirts to print and send 
Across The Pond)

> What is the easiest way to print out a large pattern from my computer?
> 
> My imaging program will allow me to select sections of my blown up image to
> print and then I can piece them together, but if I don't select the areas
> just right it's a pain to piece it together after it's printed.
> 
> I'm hoping there is a small shareware program that will take any size image
> and automatically print out the image (tiled) on however many sheets of
> paper are necessary without any intervention from me. Then I can just fit
> them together like a puzzle and go from there.
> 
> Am I dreaming?
> 
> Pamela
> 
> 
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 


----
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http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Fri Oct 15 09:45:35 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Albinas Elskus book on glass painting
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:58:14 +0100
Message-ID: <199910151559.PAA15805@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk


Dear All,

At various requests (including from Dani), I have approached 
Hetley's in London to find out if they have any copies.
Regretably, they have none.

They too have more requests for it than they care to count. Hetley's 
have also approached the publishers to ask when it will be 
reprinted and were told that there are no plans to reprint it in the 
near future.

How about if we ALL bombarded the publishers with requests for a 
re-print??
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK (sorry to be the bearer of bad news!)
----
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North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Fri Oct 15 09:47:32 1999
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From: kinkeade@moscow.com (Tim Kinkeade)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Historic Stainglass
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:55:09 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <199910151455.HAA14889@whale.fsr.net>
Precedence: bulk

Greetings,
I am new to this list and I hope that my questions are relevant to this
list.  If it is not please forgive my intrusion. 

I bought an old home a few years ago that houses, among many other fine
fixtures, a large stainglass window (apprx 6x4).  It has protective glass on
the exterior and some frame work to stabilize it (also on the exterior).
It is bowing at the base where it apparently was not correctly stabilized.
The place of installation faces the west and it gets partial heat and
sunlight in the afternoon and evening.  
Of course this gives the window an opportunity to showcase itself.   
The home was built in 1865 and then under went a large scale remodel around
1900.  I suspect the window was installed at the later date? 

My neophyte questions......

How can I date the glass and identify the artist?

How can I value the glass for insurance purposes?

How can I better care for the glass to slow or arrest the bowing at the
bottom?  
Is that bowing correctable?

I do have pictures of the window I can send as an attachment if anyone is
interested in seeing the it.
I did not want to clog everyone's email with it. 

Thanks!

Tim Kinkeade


From owner-glass Fri Oct 15 10:23:12 1999
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X-Path: city-net.com!dany
From: "Daniela Birkelbach" <dany@city-net.com>
To: "Pamela Dimitrovich" <dimitrovich@twinwolf.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Printing Patterns
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:50:36 -0400
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There is also the GlassEye Program (the purchased version) that allows you
to bring an image into the program as a background and the print command
will tile your image into the appropriate number of sheets.

You can look at it at www.dfly.com

Dany

Daniela Birkelbach
Kennebec, Inc.
Custom Software Development
Internet Solutions
http://www.kennebec-inc.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Pamela Dimitrovich <dimitrovich@twinwolf.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Friday, October 15, 1999 12:23 AM
Subject: Printing Patterns


>What is the easiest way to print out a large pattern from my computer?
>
>My imaging program will allow me to select sections of my blown up image to
>print and then I can piece them together, but if I don't select the areas
>just right it's a pain to piece it together after it's printed.
>
>I'm hoping there is a small shareware program that will take any size image
>and automatically print out the image (tiled) on however many sheets of
>paper are necessary without any intervention from me. Then I can just fit
>them together like a puzzle and go from there.
>
>Am I dreaming?
>
>Pamela
>
>
>----
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>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Fri Oct 15 10:47:33 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:ARTIZ01@aol.com" <ARTIZ01@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: painted black old glass
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:27:37 -0400
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Message text written by INTERNET:ARTIZ01@aol.com
>but on the =

outside of the church the glass is just an ugly black. <

Are you sure this is not just a dark cathedral and the
reflected light is making it look black??  I cannot =

imagine how light could be transmitted if the piece is
truly painted black on the back......?

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery &Studios
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From owner-glass Fri Oct 15 11:18:07 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!mbwalker
From: Brad Walker <mbwalker@ix.netcom.com>
To: Pamela Dimitrovich <dimitrovich@twinwolf.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Printing Patterns
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:05:32 -0400
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References: <<1999Oct14.19201.0>>
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Pamela,

Whenever I need to do a specialized task like this I go to the ZDNET library of
shareware and poke around for possible programs.  You didn't say what kind of
computer you have or what kind of file it is, but the shareware linked to below
might work.

http://hotfiles.zdnet.com/cgi-bin/texis/swlib/hotfiles/info.html?fcode=0010G1&b=

If it doesn't, you might want to browse around the site a while and see what
else you can find.

Hope this helps.  If nothing else, the price is right.

Brad Walker


Pamela Dimitrovich wrote:

> What is the easiest way to print out a large pattern from my computer?
>
> My imaging program will allow me to select sections of my blown up image to
> print and then I can piece them together, but if I don't select the areas
> just right it's a pain to piece it together after it's printed.
>
> I'm hoping there is a small shareware program that will take any size image
> and automatically print out the image (tiled) on however many sheets of
> paper are necessary without any intervention from me. Then I can just fit
> them together like a puzzle and go from there.
>
> Am I dreaming?
>
> Pamela
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Fri Oct 15 11:44:26 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Pamela Dimitrovich" <dimitrovich@twinwolf.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Elskus Book
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:27:42 -0400
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Message text written by "Pamela Dimitrovich"
>Hey everyone! I'm glad that my little find has helped so many of you out=

From owner-glass Fri Oct 15 12:24:54 1999
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From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" <dimitrovich@twinwolf.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: More Elskus Books
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:18:07 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct15.10187.0>
Precedence: bulk

I just spoke with Hudson Glass and they tell me they sold 7 copies yesterday
(to Bungians! has to be!) Wow. They tell me they have about 20 left. Did
they break open a new box? Or was the woman who told me yesterday that they
only had 6 misinformed?

Anyway, I have gotten emails from most of you who ordered one. I just wanted
everyone to know that while this well has water, get your book while you
can. (The Art of Painting on Glass by Albinus Elskus) It is at Hudson Glass
in NY 1-800-431-2964. They said I should have mine tomorrow so a 2 day
delivery time is pretty quick! Oh, it sells for $19.95 + a few $ shipping.
And no, in case you're wondering, I do not have any financial interest in
this. I'm just trying to help my fellow Bungians. They tell me too that they
are limiting 1 per person so trying to grab them up and selling them on the
"black market" after they are all gone won't work. :)

While searching the Internet for information on this book I found that there
are dozens of people out there looking for it. If you belong to another
newsgroup or list, try posting this message out there. Even if it helps one
person find what they've been looking for (one email I received said she'd
been looking for it for 2 years!), then it is worth the effort.

Just wanted everyone to know...

Pamela


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From owner-glass Fri Oct 15 12:52:18 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Albinas Elskus book on glass painting
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:43:22 -0400
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Message text written by "Toby"
>Regretably, they have none.
<

Not a big surprise to me.... let's all pray
for that possible re-print.... rumor has it
there's one in the works.... can't tell you
who told me and they won't tell me who
the possible publisher is.... and I don't =

care, if it's the same book!  I have to tell
you, when Pamela posted that Hudson
Glass had six copies, it was all I could do
to keep myself from calling them and =

ordering all six!!  Had to slap myself upside
the head and tell myself not to be greedy!
;-D

Best,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Fri Oct 15 16:49:19 1999
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From: "agregory" <annieg@access.net.au>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Printing Patterns
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 09:24:49 +1000
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Hiya,

I was eagerly awaiting replys to the printing patterns problem as its
something that's been bugging me for ages as well, but I never thought to
ask.  Anyway I ended up asking my computer guru partner, (which I probably
should have thought of eons ago as well) and he assures me that any Desk Top
Publishing software (ie. Microsoft Publisher) which has a poster printing
function should do the job.  Apparently this should break up and divide the
pattern evenly and even lets you select the amout of overhang there is on
each page to enable you to stick it together.  I'm only repeating what I've
been told at this stage, but will let you know if I can get it working.

Sorry I didn't come up with any answers regarding Shareware, but with
minimum requirements like this needed from software you should be able to
get an old outdated copy rather cheap.  (Well that's what I'm planning on
doing anyway)

Cheers
Anne

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From owner-glass Fri Oct 15 17:17:54 1999
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X-Path: pacbell.net!ezbongo2
From: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: painted black old glass
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:05:20 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct15.9520.0>
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Precedence: bulk



Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 10/14/99 10:58:22 PM, ezbongo2@pacbell.net writes:
>
> >[...] what about sandblasting the black paint off?
>
> =8-O
>
> YIKES!!!!!!!
>
> I hope that suggestion wasn't meant seriously! Paint remover (suggested
> facetiously) might do some serious damage, but I shudder to think of what
> sandblasting would do........

Well Sparks ... clearly the back black surface has to come off.

Doesn't seem reasonable that a glass painter would kiln fire a nice glass
painting WITH a back surface of black.  So I can only assume that the black
paint is NOT kiln fired, but some type of house paint or enamel or something
along those lines.  Seems clear that the black 'whatever', I assume paint,
was put on at some later date by one of those "the lights are on but nobody's
home" types.

So, exactly what would you suggest?

Prayer and medication ..... errrr ... meditation that is? <G>

Perhaps we could all have a cyber-meeting and wring our hands together.  LOL

Seriously, other than chemical removal (paint remover or whatever) or some
physical method (sandblasting seems the best of those methods), what *IS*
there to do what this person said they wanted to do?

I'm no expert on 'restoration', but this doesn't seem to BE a case of
'restoration', but a case of obstacle removal.  Black paint on the back
indeed.

Of course one could just make a frame, charge the customer, give it back, and
be done with it.

Anyway ...... regards ..... Bob


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From owner-glass Fri Oct 15 18:54:44 1999
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X-Path: mediaone.net!embee
From: "Mary" <embee@mediaone.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Printing Patterns
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:24:26 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct15.172426.0>
References: <<1999Oct16.192449.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Do you remember the software I described, called "Pattern Wizard"? It also
prints large patterns, with overhangs on each page. It's worth a try.
Mary


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From owner-glass Fri Oct 15 19:21:40 1999
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From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" <dimitrovich@twinwolf.net>
To: "agregory" <annieg@access.net.au>, <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Printing Patterns
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:59:07 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct15.16597.0>
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Thanks Anne,

You are right about that poster printing function. I had forgotten about
that. I do have several desktop publishing programs such as Publisher too. I
received another message that Corel 6 also can tile print larger images. I
have that program as well but haven't used it in quite some time. Guess it's
time to reinstall it.

Pamela

-----Original Message-----
From: agregory <annieg@access.net.au>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Friday, October 15, 1999 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: Printing Patterns


>Hiya,
>
>I was eagerly awaiting replys to the printing patterns problem as its
>something that's been bugging me for ages as well, but I never thought to
>ask.  Anyway I ended up asking my computer guru partner, (which I probably
>should have thought of eons ago as well) and he assures me that any Desk
Top
>Publishing software (ie. Microsoft Publisher) which has a poster printing
>function should do the job.  Apparently this should break up and divide the
>pattern evenly and even lets you select the amout of overhang there is on
>each page to enable you to stick it together.  I'm only repeating what I've
>been told at this stage, but will let you know if I can get it working.
>
>Sorry I didn't come up with any answers regarding Shareware, but with
>minimum requirements like this needed from software you should be able to
>get an old outdated copy rather cheap.  (Well that's what I'm planning on
>doing anyway)
>
>Cheers
>Anne
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


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From owner-glass Fri Oct 15 19:28:34 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: painted black old glass
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:41:06 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct15.17416.0>
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Message text written by rrk
> So I can only assume that the black
paint is NOT kiln fired, but some type of house paint or enamel or
something
along those lines.<

I cannot imagine any light transmitting with that kind
of paint on the back.... makes no sense.  I suspect =

there is no paint on the back.... it just appears that
way with reflected light.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Fri Oct 15 19:51:41 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: painted black old glass
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:41:04 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct15.17414.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by rrk
>Well Sparks ... clearly the back black surface has to come off.<

I would guess that it just LOOKS like the back is
painted because it's a dark cathedral.... on the light
box it would have that illusion.... the painted side =

would also feel smooth, the side that was fired side
down would have a bit of texture from the kiln shelf,
giving even more of that painted illusion on the back.

I'm also wondering if Joseph could give us some =

feedback about using neon in the light box instead
of flourescent.... would be brighter, no?

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 16 09:38:53 1999
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From: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
To: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: painted black old glass
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 09:10:30 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct16.21030.0>
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Precedence: bulk



Dani Greer wrote:

> Message text written by rrk
> >Well Sparks ... clearly the back black surface has to come off.<
>
> I would guess that it just LOOKS like the back is
> painted because it's a dark cathedral.... on the light
> box it would have that illusion.... the painted side =
>
> would also feel smooth, the side that was fired side
> down would have a bit of texture from the kiln shelf,
> giving even more of that painted illusion on the back.

Dani,

Could be, all I can go by is what the original poster actually said :

>>>>>>>>>>
Subject:          backlighting old stained glass window
   Date:          Thu, 14 Oct 1999 06:38:25 -0400 (EDT)
   From:          ARTIZ01@aol.com
     To:          glass@bungi.com

Old stained glass painted church windows was brought into my shop. The
complete back of it is painted a flat black.

[rest of msg deleted]

>>>>>>>>>>

I can only assume that she's bright enough to tell the difference
between painted glass and dark colored glass.

A test area of 5 mm x 5 mm  near a corner should suffice for testing.
Should take a couple of minutes on the outside [pun intended <G>].

Regards ..... Bob

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From owner-glass Sat Oct 16 10:08:33 1999
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: painted black old glass
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 12:29:35 EDT
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In a message dated 10/15/99 8:19:03 PM, ezbongo2@pacbell.net writes:

>Well Sparks ... clearly the back black surface has to come off.
>
>[...]
>
>So, exactly what would you suggest?

Definitely NOT sandblasting! At the very least you'd end up with a 
strange-looking "frosted" surface on the glass, besides damaging (if not 
outright removing) any fired-on paint that's part of the design in the first 
place (if it's on the same side of the glass, that is - duh.....).

Paint remover of some sort is a far better idea - it's more likely to leave 
any fired-on paint untouched, and won't rough up the surface of the glass. 
TEST ON A VERY SMALL INCONSPICUOUS AREA FIRST!!!!! (yeah, I'm shouting) to 
make sure the painted design really is fired on and not "just paint" of some 
kind (or badly fired and deteriorated and likely to flake off with very 
little provocation).

Another thought: I wonder if the "black paint" isn't paint at all, but years 
of accumulated gunk and grime from Life in the Big Bad City? Unlike paint, 
that would allow *some* light to shine through, but would look black in 
reflected light.

A while back, a customer who had a pair of leaded panels taken out of the 
front doors of a late-19th-century house brought them into Christie's place 
for repair. There was so much accumulated brownish-black crud on them, we 
literally couldn't tell what color the glass was under it all. We figured it 
was probably all those "drab late-Victorian" colors. Between that crud and 
the heavy oxidation of the lead, we couldn't get solder to stick. Scraping, 
scrubbing with flux and steel wool, you name it, nothing worked.

Finally in desperation and on a hunch that a lot of the crud was petrified 
cooking grease and oil- or coal-furnace residue, I got out the "Dad's Easy 
Spray" paint remover (which we had used previously to get a thick coat of 
ancient paint off the lead lines on another window - why someone got it into 
their head to paint their lead blue, I'll never know!) and (with the boss's 
consent, of course!) tried a little tiny bit of that on one of the joints. It 
took the grime right off, and where it touched the glass next to the lead, it 
revealed a lovely deep turquoise! More careful cleaning uncovered a 
surprising array of brilliant jewel colors, including a bright pink-purple 
that we'd guessed was a light brown!

We did *not* have any painted-on design to contend with here, but my point is 
that paint remover *does* have its uses at times. Use it sparingly, test it 
on a small inconspicuous area first (that word of caution can't be repeated 
enough!), be sure to wear proper protective gear (Dad's is NASTY STUFF - it 
will eat your skin right off!), etc. etc. It's not the first thing to try in 
any case......

Of course, having said all that, the very first thing to do is pick up a copy 
of Julie Sloan's book "Conservation of Stained Glass in America," which 
includes a section on cleaning old glass.


Sparks
----
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 16 10:38:55 1999
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Non glass, a plea by Howard!
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 10:09:03 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct16.393.0>
Organization: weaver51@teleport.com
Precedence: bulk

My wife teaches 2nd and 3rd grade blend. In order to support the geography
lessons meant for 3rd grade, and to keep the 2nd graders interested, the 2/3
blend team is asking for postcards from around the world. Would you be
willing to send a postcard from wherever you are or wherever you're going?
Include something of interest about the place on the postcard - history,
weather, happenings, etc.

send to:
            Mrs. Rubin's Class
            Sam Case Elementary School
            459 NE 12th Street
            Newport, OR 97365
                    USA



weaver51@teleport.com
Elaine and Howard
best lamps on the "net":
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard

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From owner-glass Sat Oct 16 13:17:57 1999
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X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: NG - Definitely; Howard 'n Toby
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 20:41:50 +0100
Message-ID: <199910161942.TAA18055@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk



Dear All,
Dear Howard,

I will be delighted to send post cards to the kids in your wife's 
class of  all sorts of historic places here in England with a brief 
little history. For all your sage advice over the years and the regret 
that we were not destined to meet during my visit in USA..........
There may even be a postcard of my "Sleeping Partner" Toby as 
well.


Which elegantly leads me to Toby.... and his 4 weeks old great 
nephew.... and Toby's long car journey today....

Great Nephew is 7 inches long, a round little barrel and his feet are 
the size of a 25 cent piece (compare THAT with the feet of the 
Toby T-shirt!!). One of his ears is black. He has 13 brothers and 
sisters. He and I were introduced for the first time today. My friend 
Jenny came with me the round trip of 250 miles.

Great Nephew is already registered with the British Kennel Club 
and in addition to its breeder name has now been given 2 other 
names, the second of which is Monterey (to commemorate all my 
friends in California who made my entry and acclamitization to 
USA so easy and enjoyable - and to reconfirm my  deep affinity 
with the sea and its creatures). Great Nephew's first name  I will let 
you know after the weekend, because I need to go through the list 
of YOUR suggestions (about 40 of them!!), because I think that 
there is a Winner there!!!!! No, it's NOT "Uncle Sam"! Nor is it 
Grinder!!
And - yes - there is a photograph of the First Meeting!!! To be 
developed shortly....

Watch This Space!!!

Elisabeth 'n (broody) Toby in UK

----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 16 16:50:09 1999
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X-Path: twinwolf.net!dimitrovich
From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" <dimitrovich@twinwolf.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Book Arrival
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 13:59:16 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct16.95916.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone,

I just received my book "The Art of Painting on Glass" It arrived in 2 days
just like Hudson Glass promised.

After a quick flip-through, I find the photos and descriptions are the best!
I hope everyone else who ordered it is as happy as I am right now!

Now for some heavy reading and learning...

Pamela


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From owner-glass Sat Oct 16 19:26:30 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!ARTIZ01
From: ARTIZ01@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: black of glass painted black
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 22:00:43 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Oct17.2043.0>
Precedence: bulk

We rubbed a corner of the back of the painting and you could see the brush 
marks.
A man from the church said he heard someone painted this window during one of 
the wars. Have you ever heard of this before?
Bunny
----
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 16 20:29:56 1999
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X-Path: twinwolf.net!dimitrovich
From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" <dimitrovich@twinwolf.net>
To: <ARTIZ01@aol.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: black of glass painted black
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 22:25:44 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct16.182544.0>
Precedence: bulk

Makes sense if they were in "black out conditions" during the wars. It was
common to paint windows black if they didn't have "black out curtains".
(Prevents the "enemy" from seeing the lights at night so they can't locate
neighborhoods and buildings to bomb - info tid bit for you younger lurkers"

Can you determine what type of paint it might be? I haven't been reading
this thread as closely as I should have but if you can nail down the
location of it during the wars you may be able to do a little historical
research to see what types of paints/methods were employed for this purpose
at that time. Chemical formulas change over the years and sometimes you can
"date" products with a little research. It may help in determining your plan
of action. If you need help in getting some historical research let me know.
There are a few sources I have in mind if indeed it is a "blackout" issue.

Pamela


>We rubbed a corner of the back of the painting and you could see the brush
>marks.
>A man from the church said he heard someone painted this window during one
of
>the wars. Have you ever heard of this before?
>Bunny
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


----
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 16 21:01:10 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu
From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Pamela Dimitrovich" <dimitrovich@twinwolf.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Book Arrival
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 20:14:44 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct16.131444.0>
Precedence: bulk

>>I just received my book "The Art of Painting on Glass" It arrived in 2
days
just like Hudson Glass promised.

After a quick flip-through, I find the photos and descriptions are the best!
I hope everyone else who ordered it is as happy as I am right now!<<

Here is an opinion that may increase your happiness. The book is very
redundant. One can skim along and still get a good idea of what is
presented. Of course, you can go back and review an area in detail.

Happy mahl stick, bridge and palette box making.

Bob in SOCAL

----
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 16 21:33:55 1999
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X-Path: xtra.co.nz!TMacnicol
From: Tina Booth <TMacnicol@xtra.co.nz>
To: Glass List <glass@bungi.com.>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Glass Magic Review & order info.
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 16:27:51 +1300
Message-ID: <1999Oct18.52751.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hello to all those interested in the Glass Magic software offer.  I have
spent part of the weekend have a bit of a play with the Glass Magic 5.0
software.  Following is a bit of a review.

Glass Magic v5.0

-CD Rom format.
-Supports Imperial measurment only.
-30 peices of sg compatable clipart come with it.  Any clipart can be
cut and pasted onto any pattern piece.
-3 sg friendly font styles


1.    Lamp shade design:
        Three styles of lampshdes to choose from.
        1.Crown, collar and panels
        2.Crown, collar, panels and skirt
        3.Crown, collar, panels, band and skirt.
    The height, base and collar diameter and collar angles are fully
adjustable.  As are the number of panels.  The program allows you to
view an elevation of the lampshade to sensure you are happy with the
proportions.  Each piece is viewable and clip art can be inserted onto
any piece and coloured (it uses MS paint for this).  For patterns
without the skirt, there are 15 styles you may add to the base of the
panels or paste in your own clipart.  Patterns using a skirt have a
choice of 30 designs.  Each pattern piece is viewable before printing
and prints to scale.

2.Box Design.
        There are 3 square boxes, 3 hexagonal, 3 circular and 2 oval
boxes.  Each box has adjustable height, width (or dia.) lid to base
proportions, number of side panels and angle of lid pieces (if it is to
be domed).  Clip art is able to be pasted to any piece.  Prints out
correct scale patterns for each different piece.

3.Window, Mosaic, and bevels.
    The height, and width of each window is adjustable.  A border is
easliy applied.  A circluar or hexagonal template can be overlaid for
windows or mosaics of that shape.  Bevels have adjusment facility for
lead or copper construction.  30 clip art images already loaded as well
as 3 font styles.  Any clipart can be pasted into your design.  Then
coloured (using MS paint).

The program is availabe for US$15 per copy plus $3.00 postage (from
manufacturer to me, then back to you.)I have 12 or 13 names on the list
who wanted a copy.  I will be checking with you over the next few days
to see if you are still interested.
Payment should be sent to me asap.  I would like to have all payments
in, within 14 days so I can make one order of 13 (or what ever) copies.
Then I will post them all out to you.
Please Email me privately if you've got any comments about payments etc.



Bye for now.

--
     -Tina Booth-
-Knowledge is true opinion-
       -Plato-


----
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 16 21:40:34 1999
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X-Path: ilnk.com!andor
From: "Linda Jo Letscher" <andor@ilnk.com>
To: <ARTIZ01@aol.com>,
Subject: Re: black of glass painted black
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 23:18:38 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct16.191838.0>
Precedence: bulk

I am curious what war that would be?  Revoluntary, Civil.... 1812  WW1
WW2??  I forget if you said how old you thought these windows were.    This
is so interesting, I hope you find a way to get these windows back to there
original beauty.
Linda Jo
-----Original Message-----
From: ARTIZ01@aol.com <ARTIZ01@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Saturday, October 16, 1999 10:29 PM
Subject: black of glass painted black


>We rubbed a corner of the back of the painting and you could see the brush
>marks.
>A man from the church said he heard someone painted this window during one
of
>the wars. Have you ever heard of this before?
>Bunny
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


----
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 16 21:55:51 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!MATRONA
From: MATRONA@aol.com
To: ARTIZ01@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: black of glass painted black
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 23:35:53 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Oct17.33553.0>
Precedence: bulk

YOu know... I think that guy is talking about blackouts.  We had those in the 
second world war.  But (even though I have just joined this newsletter, and I 
didn't hear the beginning of this story,) I can't believe they would just 
leave it like that til now--unless they just couldn't figure out how to undo 
it.  Where is this window anyway?
have you asked anyone directly?  I mean in an old established studio?
This just seems too wierd.
Anne Anson
Stained Glass by Anne Anson
----
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From owner-glass Sun Oct 17 09:19:07 1999
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X-Path: qni.com!bwarren
From: "Bill Warren" <bwarren@qni.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Printing Patterns
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 10:13:14 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Oct17.51314.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hello,
Been reading a while, but don't write much.  This time I do have something
to say.

The advice of having an outside source plot your pattern in one sheet is
very good.  I would like to ad some comments that may further assist you in
your quest.

Are you friends with an Engineer, Surveyor or Architect?  All of these
people use large format plotters on a daily basis and could assist you with
a minimal amount of headache.  If not, try a local reprographics house that
serves the engineering industry.   Look in the Yellow pages under
Engineering products and supplies. I'm certain you will find many sources if
you live in a community larger than 50,000 people.

Many of these firms offer e-mail download of the design and they will ship
the finished print.  You need not leave your studio.  Also the advice of
file type is very true.  Jpeg and such images are not very good for plot
outputs.  *.bmp (bitmap) and *.tif  (tiff) files generally can be worked
with ok.  The real industry standard is an Autocad format *.dwg file.  This
drawing file will work very well for all third party plotters.

If you are in the following states I can pass along names and contact people
of reliable firms that can assist you:
Missouri, Kansas, Colorado, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, North Dakota or South
Dakota.

Sorry, I have never heard of a shareware program that accurately tiles a
design for printing on a smaller format printer.

Best regards
Bill Warren

PS.  If you plan on a lot of larger desing work, many engineering firms have
old slower pen plotters that you could pick up cheap! ($75.00 to $150.00)
If interested I will pass you on to people in the know.

----
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From owner-glass Sun Oct 17 12:58:55 1999
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X-Path: xtra.co.nz!TMacnicol
From: Tina Booth <TMacnicol@xtra.co.nz>
To: vwrona1@airmail.net, Glass List <glass@bungi.com.>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Glass Magic Questions
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:32:35 +1300
Message-ID: <1999Oct18.213235.0>
References: <<mS/11ctMP-000FSKS@mail.airmail.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Vicki,

Yes there is a web site with a very limited demo on the site. It
is:http://users.megasoftnet.com/~mglass or try http://www.123.net/~mglass/  I haven't visited
this site for a while.  I'm not sure if it displays v5.0 or the older v4.0.

Yes you are able to scan in pictures.  It uses MS paint which is on almost every PC now.  So
what ever you can do in MS paint you can do in Glass Magic.  It does not have a edge finding
capacity, like dome programs do.  You must physically trace the line using MS Paint.  Any clip
art can be cut and pasted in to this program.  Clip art contains 4 sections, Flowers,
Holidays, Birds, and Misc.  Items include witch, butterfly, ballerina, cat, dove, santa claus,
etc.  These images are clip art not finished patterns.  You decide where they are place in
your piece and how to connect the surrounding glass around them.  All patterns can be named
and saved.

--
     -Tina Booth-
-Knowledge is true opinion-
       -Plato-


----
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From owner-glass Sun Oct 17 14:09:40 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!Awbaxter
From: Awbaxter@aol.com
To: ARTIZ01@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: black of glass painted black
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 16:10:36 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Oct17.201036.0>
Precedence: bulk

Re:  blackout windows
It's not that uncommon in large cities.  There are a number of buildings and 
churches in Detroit whose stained glass windows, transoms and cupolas were 
painted black on the outside in the 1940's, during World War II.  After all, 
a lot of airplane, war machine,  and industrial manufacturing took place here 
in those years.
Ann
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From owner-glass Sun Oct 17 14:38:11 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!Awbaxter
From: Awbaxter@aol.com
To: MATRONA@aol.com, ARTIZ01@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: black of glass painted black
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 16:20:25 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Oct17.202025.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 10/17/99 12:56:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
MATRONA@aol.com writes:

<< I can't believe they would just 
 leave it like that til now--unless they just couldn't figure out how to undo 
 >>
 
I apologize, I should have included this in the last post.  
After the war, removing the paint was not a first priority, and many times it 
was just  forgotten.  Future generations just didn't know what gems were in 
those buildings, accepting the appearance of the windows as they were.  I am 
now working with an old church whose skylight was completely painted over, 
and not until a caretaker was walking above the ceiling near it, and his foot 
went through a pane, did the current parishoners realize it was colored glass 
and not black plastic inserts 30 feet above their heads!  BTW, these panels 
were not leaded, further obscuring their identity.  Just cathedral glass 
panels laid in a steel matrix.  We are now working out designs for something 
spectacular (and safe!).
----
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From owner-glass Sun Oct 17 14:43:06 1999
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X-Path: xtra.co.nz!TMacnicol
From: Tina Booth <TMacnicol@xtra.co.nz>
To: Glass List <glass@bungi.com.>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Glass Magic postage info.
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:55:26 +1300
Message-ID: <1999Oct18.215526.0>
References: <<004701bf18b2$df368240$230c7ed1@warren>>
Precedence: bulk

Hello again.

The price and postage is based on $US as it is being posted from the US to me
in NZ, then I'm posting it back to you all out there in cyber land. The cost
(investment) is worked out as follows:

Glass magic is costing me US$15.00 per copy.  It will cost me US$10 postage
from the supplier for 13 or whatever copies.  If I charge US$3.00 to get them
back to you (NZ$6.00) I should be o.k.  My NZ bank said overseas cheques are
o.k but may take as long as 3 weeks to clear.  It's o.k with me if it's o.k
with you to wait that long.  In New Zealand a draft or a money order is about
NZ$10-15.00 so I am conscious of rapidly rising cost for you on the other end
if money orders and drafts are a similar price.  The only other way I can
think of getting it here and back to you quicker is if, you send you checks to
a US address (fellow bungian -maybe) they are cleared then one money order or
draft is sent (reducing costs) to me.  But I'm not sure how much time that
would actually save.  Any suggestions are welcome.

My snail mail address is:

Tina Booth
30a Hall Street
Kihi Kihi
New Zealand

Regards
--
     -Tina Booth-
-Knowledge is true opinion-
       -Plato-


----
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From owner-glass Sun Oct 17 17:22:07 1999
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	for rglass-42; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 16:35:03 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: xtra.co.nz!TMacnicol
From: Tina Booth <TMacnicol@xtra.co.nz>
To: Glass List <glass@bungi.com.>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Glass Magic postage info.
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:43:07 +1300
Message-ID: <1999Oct19.1437.0>
References: <<1999Oct18.215526.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hello again;

Sorry about all this bits and pieces of information.  I have never arranged this
type of thing before.  If you intend to send a cheque please ensure you either
write US dollars on it somewhere or convert it into NZ dollars at the correct
exchage rate on the day.
Cheques are o.k with me but do bear in mind the delay it creates waiting for it to
clear (3 weeks in NZ)  Money order or draft are o.k too.  I am aware that they are
expensive (in NZ).  If you want a draft let me know via my own e-mail so I can
give you the acc. no.

Tina Booth wrote:

> Hello again.
>
> The price and postage is based on $US as it is being posted from the US to me
> in NZ, then I'm posting it back to you all out there in cyber land. The cost
> (investment) is worked out as follows:
>
> Glass magic is costing me US$15.00 per copy.  It will cost me US$10 postage
> from the supplier for 13 or whatever copies.  If I charge US$3.00 to get them
> back to you (NZ$6.00) I should be o.k.  My NZ bank said overseas cheques are
> o.k but may take as long as 3 weeks to clear.  It's o.k with me if it's o.k
> with you to wait that long.  In New Zealand a draft or a money order is about
> NZ$10-15.00 so I am conscious of rapidly rising cost for you on the other end
> if money orders and drafts are a similar price.  The only other way I can
> think of getting it here and back to you quicker is if, you send you checks to
> a US address (fellow bungian -maybe) they are cleared then one money order or
> draft is sent (reducing costs) to me.  But I'm not sure how much time that
> would actually save.  Any suggestions are welcome.
>
> My snail mail address is:
>
> Tina Booth
> 30a Hall Street
> Kihi Kihi
> New Zealand
>
> Regards
> --
>      -Tina Booth-
> -Knowledge is true opinion-
>        -Plato-
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

--
     -Tina Booth-
-Knowledge is true opinion-
       -Plato-


----
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To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Sun Oct 17 18:32:03 1999
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com
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	for rglass-42; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 17:33:38 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: mailcty.com!newyou
From: <newyou@mailcty.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: LOSE 30 POUNDS IN 30 DAYS, GUARANTEED!
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 12:55:24
Message-ID: <856.241921.883494@mail01.homewknow.com>
Precedence: bulk

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directions (1 Month Supply,  Absolutely Free ) ...With these capsules
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----
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Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Sun Oct 17 19:08:42 1999
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com
	via smail with stdio
	id <m11d19s-0000JPa@daver.bungi.com>
	for rglass-42; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 18:00:16 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:Awbaxter@aol.com" <Awbaxter@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: black of glass painted black
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 20:10:58 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct17.161058.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by INTERNET:Awbaxter@aol.com
>After the war, removing the paint was not a first priority, and many tim=
es
it =

was just  forgotten.  Future generations just didn't know what gems were =
in

those buildings, accepting the appearance of the windows as they were.<

Now, let's think this through logically and, perhaps, speculate
a bit.  Imagine yourself in a war situation having to black-out
these precious church windows.  Would not the caretakers
use a paint that would be removable in the future?  I would.
Particularly, if the windows were meaningful and/or expensive.
I have tried to find more information about this situation of
blacked-out windows and find no mention in glass books...
was it such an uncommon practice?  Or are most of the
windows already cleaned/restored? One would think that
restoration and conservation studios have some experience
with this particular situation.  =


Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
----
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From owner-glass Mon Oct 18 02:21:54 1999
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	id <m11d8V6-0000Q3a@daver.bungi.com>
	for rglass-42; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 01:50:40 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones
From: "Jones B.S." <b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk>
To: "'Glass@bungi.com'" <Glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: black of glass painted black
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:44:15 +0100
Message-ID: <1999Oct18.104415.0>
Precedence: bulk

>>Subject: Re: black of glass painted black


>>Now, let's think this through logically and, perhaps, speculate
>>a bit.  Imagine yourself in a war situation having to black-out
>>these precious church windows.  Would not the caretakers

This is interesting but..local to me there are dozens of small churches and
chapels.From the outside the windows on some of them "look"  just like they
have black matt on the outside. I say "look" as in reality it is industrial
grime so thick it looks like paint. I have never understood why they leave
the windows like this maybe it is just finance but the effect to the windows
from the inside must be the same in the form of a loss of light that stops
the sparkle of clean glass.
Yes the whole of the area I live in was bombed heavily during the war but
they used to simply curtain up the windows as far as I know.

Brandon (UK)
----
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From owner-glass Mon Oct 18 05:55:07 1999
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	id <m11dBfJ-0002BWa@daver.bungi.com>
	for rglass-42; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 05:13:25 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: sprintmail.com!BillJeas
From: "William C. Jeas" <BillJeas@sprintmail.com>
To: Glenna Rand <gjr@bungi.com>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Subscription Cancellation & Cancel me from Your Mailing List
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 07:15:11 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct18.31511.0>
References: <<m11d3hj-00022rC@daver.bungi.com>>
Precedence: bulk


--------------F5269E26C9604FBAEB2E1430
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

TO: Glenna RAND
TO: Glass@bungi.com

FROM: William C. Jeas <billjeas@sprintmail.com>

PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM ALL MAILING LISTS.

PLEASE CANCEL MY SUBSCRIPTION. It is no longer needed.

Thank You
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Glenna Rand wrote:

> [In the message entitled "Subscription Request- Add me to Your Mailing List" on Oct 17, 16:16, "William C. Jeas" writes:]
> > Please add me to your Mailing List.
> >
> Hi,
>
> You are on the stained glass email mailing list.  There have been
> some technical changes.
>
> As a reminder to all, the stained glass list is intended to be a resource
> that people can use to discuss issues related to glass work.  It is not for
> discussing the personal habits of people, or their probably parentage.  We
> *do not* want to moderate this list.  We feel that people should have the
> ability to express their ideas openly.
>
> Please; this list goes to over 400 people, all around the world.  There
> *will* be differences of opinion.  If so, please take it offline.  To that
> end, I have made a technical change in how the list works.  Before, replying
> would automatically send to the stained glass list.  Now, replying will send
> the message back only to the originator.  If your reply is meant for the
> list as well, you will need to change the To: address to glass@bungi.com.
>
> Hopefully, this minor change will both help avoid the recent flame-fests,
> and help people stay in a positive frame of mind.
>
> Let us know if you have any questions.
>
> Dave & Glenna Rand
>
> --
> Glenna Rand
> gjr@bungi.com

--------------F5269E26C9604FBAEB2E1430
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
TO: Glenna RAND
<br>TO: Glass@bungi.com
<p>FROM: William C. Jeas &lt;billjeas@sprintmail.com>
<p><b>PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM ALL MAILING LISTS.</b>
<p><b>PLEASE CANCEL MY SUBSCRIPTION</b>. It is no longer needed.
<p>Thank You
<br>
<hr WIDTH="100%">
<p>Glenna Rand wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>[In the message entitled "Subscription Request- Add
me to Your Mailing List" on Oct 17, 16:16, "William C. Jeas" writes:]
<br>> Please add me to your Mailing List.
<br>>
<br>Hi,
<p>You are on the stained glass email mailing list.&nbsp; There have been
<br>some technical changes.
<p>As a reminder to all, the stained glass list is intended to be a resource
<br>that people can use to discuss issues related to glass work.&nbsp;
It is not for
<br>discussing the personal habits of people, or their probably parentage.&nbsp;
We
<br>*do not* want to moderate this list.&nbsp; We feel that people should
have the
<br>ability to express their ideas openly.
<p>Please; this list goes to over 400 people, all around the world.&nbsp;
There
<br>*will* be differences of opinion.&nbsp; If so, please take it offline.&nbsp;
To that
<br>end, I have made a technical change in how the list works.&nbsp; Before,
replying
<br>would automatically send to the stained glass list.&nbsp; Now, replying
will send
<br>the message back only to the originator.&nbsp; If your reply is meant
for the
<br>list as well, you will need to change the To: address to glass@bungi.com.
<p>Hopefully, this minor change will both help avoid the recent flame-fests,
<br>and help people stay in a positive frame of mind.
<p>Let us know if you have any questions.
<p>Dave &amp; Glenna Rand
<p>--
<br>Glenna Rand
<br>gjr@bungi.com</blockquote>
</html>

--------------F5269E26C9604FBAEB2E1430--

----
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From owner-glass Mon Oct 18 06:25:11 1999
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Received: by daver.bungi.com
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	for rglass-42; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 04:57:45 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: aol.com!gtrs11
From: gtrs11@aol.com
To: brnt3@aol.com
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
Subject: Get Debt Free With This Simple Investment!
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 99 07:54:18 Eastern Daylight Time
Message-ID: <199910181145.UAA18786@mail.APEL.NE.JP>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_018C_01BD9940.715D52A0
Content-Type: text/html;

<HTML>
<BODY>

<FONT face="MS Sans Serif">
<FONT size=3>
<FONT color="#000080"> Dear Friend,<BR>
<BR>
This letter is about an opportunity to make an incredible amount of Money (</FONT>
<FONT color="#000080"><B> CASH</B></FONT>
<FONT color="#000080"> !!!) <BR>
in a very short time.  The cost is only $6.00!  This is the 16th day since I started receiving <BR>
$ cash, and so far I have received $5,845 (in $1 Bills)...so I guess this is really working <BR>
already!  Give it a try!  All I did was follow the instructions in the letter that I received below, <BR>
and send out some e-mail to people that responded to my ads.<BR>
<BR>
Here is a testimony from one of the thousands that have benefited from this get-rich-quick <BR>
plan.<BR>
<BR>
"I'm a retired attorney, and about a year ago a man came to me with a letter.  The letter <BR>
he brought to me is the same letter before you now.  He asked me to verify that this <BR>
letter was legal.  I told him that I would review it and get back to him.  When I first <BR>
read the letter, I thought it was some off the wall idea to make money.  A week later<BR>
 I met again with my client to discuss the issue.  I told him that the letter will be all right.  <BR>
I was curious about the letter, so he told me how it worked.  I thought it was a long <BR>
shot, so I decided against participating.  Before my client left, I asked him to keep <BR>
me updated as to his results.  About two months later he called me to tell me that <BR>
he had received more than $800,000.00 in cash!  I didn't believe him so he asked <BR>
me to try the plan and see for myself."<BR>
<BR>
"I thought about it for a few days and decided that there was not much to lose. <BR>
 I followed the instructions exactly and mailed out 200 letters.  Sure enough the <BR>
money started coming in!  It came slowly at first, but after three weeks I was getting <BR>
more than I could open in a day.  After three months the money stopped coming. <BR>
 I kept a precise record of my earnings and at the end it totaled $868,439.00.  I <BR>
earn a good living as an attorney, but as anyone in the legal profession will tell <BR>
you, there is a lot of stress that comes with the territory.  I decided if things worked <BR>
out, I would retire from practice and play golf.  This time I sent out 500 letters.  <BR>
Well, three months later, I had totaled $2,344,178.00."<BR>
<BR>
"I met my old client for lunch to find out exactly how it works.  He told me that <BR>
there were a few similar letters going around.  What made this one different is <BR>
the fact that there were six names on the letter, not three like most others.  That <BR>
act alone resulted in more returns.  The other factor was the advice I gave him <BR>
in making sure the whole thing was perfectly legal, since no one wants to risk <BR>
doing anything illegal.  I bet now you are curious about what little changes I <BR>
told him to make.  Well, if you send a letter like this one out, to be legal, you <BR>
must sell something if you expect to received a dollar.  I told him that anyone <BR>
sending a dollar must received something in RETURN.  So when you send <BR>
a dollar to each of the six names on the list, you must include a slip of paper <BR>
saying, "Please add me to your mailing list" and include your name and mailing <BR>
address.  This is the key to the program.  The item you <BR>
will received for your dollar sent, is THIS letter and the right to earn thousands."<BR>
<BR>
Follow the simple instructions EXACTLY, and in less than three months you <BR>
should receive MORE THAN $800,000.00 IN COLD HARD CASH!<BR>
<BR>
          1)  IMMEDIATELY send $1.00 (US$) to each of the six people listed below.           <BR>
               SOONER YOU SEND THE "$1.00 LETTERS" THE SOONER YOU CAN <BR>
               START GETTING A RETURN!  Wrap the dollar (in order to prevent <BR>
               thievery) in a note saying "PLEASE ADD ME TO YOUR MAILING LIST". <BR>
               <BR>
          <BR>
           1.   Mike C., P.O. Box 24127 St. Louis MO 63130<BR>
<BR>
           2.   Nick R.  RR 6 Box 38 Kirksville, MO 63501<BR>
<BR>
           3.   Ai Ling NG, 834 Woodlands St. 83, #10-85, Singapore 730834<BR>
<BR>
           4.   Kurt Rumley  1714 Willow Dr Fortuna, CA 95540 <BR>
<BR>
           5.   Billie Anderson 2452 #2 Newburg Rd  Fortuna, CA 95540<BR>
<BR>
           6.   William B. , PO BOX 947 Fortuna, CA.  95540<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
           2)   REMOVE the NAME and ADDRESS NEXT to #1 at the top of the list and  <BR>
                 move the rest of the names UP one position.  Then place YOUR name<BR>
                 in the #6 spot.  This is best done by saving this to a file and enter in your <BR>
                 information on the line #6.  Be careful when you type the addresses. <BR>
                 Don't forget to PROOFREAD them.  Make SURE that the names and <BR>
                 addresses are correct.  <BR>
<BR>
           3)   When you have COMPLETED the above instructions, you have several <BR>
                 options on how you market the letter - through the Postal Service, through<BR>
                 E-mail, through posting in "FREE CLASSIFIED ADS" and "NEWSGROUPS" <BR>
                 ON THE INTERNET, or through whatever way you deem is legal.<BR>
<BR>
To send this letter out to thousands of people and increase your profits, I suggest you<BR>
use a Bulk E-mail company.  Call </FONT>
<FONT color="#000080"><B> 207-896-7915</B></FONT>
<FONT color="#000080">  to have your letter emailed.<BR>
100,000 emailings costs just $89.00 and they are running a special now of 50,000<BR>
FREE!!!<BR>
<BR>
This letter has been proven perfectly legal for all of the above as long as you follow the <BR>
instructions, because you are purchasing membership in our exclusive mailing list.  <BR>
The more you send out, the more YOU will make.  We strongly <BR>
encourage you to mail this letter to family, friends, and relatives as well.<BR>
<BR>
THIS IS A SERVICE AND IS 100% LEGAL.  (Refer to title 18, section 1302 &1341 <BR>
of the US Postal and Lottery Laws)<BR>
<BR>
Assume for example you get a 8% return rate.<BR>
<BR>
1)  When you mail out 200 letters, ONLY 16 people send you $1.00<BR>
<BR>
2)  Those 16 people mail out 200 letters, (3200 letters) and ONLY 256 people <BR>
send you $1.00<BR>
<BR>
3)  Those 256 people mail out 200 letters, (51,200 letters) and ONLY 4, 096 <BR>
people send you $1.00<BR>
<BR>
4)  Those 4,096 people mail out 200 letters (812,200 letter) and ONLY 65,536 <BR>
people send you $1.00<BR>
<BR>
5)  Those 69,536 people mail out 200 letters (13,107,200 letters) and ONLY <BR>
1,048,576 people send you $1.00.  At the Next level your name-drops off the list.<BR>
<BR>
Think about it.  Look what you WILL have BEFORE your name-drops off the list!  <BR>
I know this looks and sounds unbelievable.  Just try it, and you will be happy <BR>
that you did because you will received proof when THOUSANDS of <BR>
ONE-DOLLAR BILLS start to pile up!<BR>
<BR>
***MAKE SURE you send One US dollar to each of the six names on the list.  <BR>
(This is VERY IMPORTANT), with a note saying "PLEASE ADD ME TO YOUR MAILING LIST"<BR>
<BR>
    P.S.  You've read this far, so let me as you one simple question,<BR>
<BR>
    WHAT HAVE YOU GOT TO LOSE?<BR>
<BR>
Even with a 1% return you will still get $100,000.00 in 90 DAYS!!!  What you can <BR>
gain is an income, like the example in this letter.  You will have a very small <BR>
expense, but you will reap HUGE potential returns. What do you have to lose?  <BR>
I invite you to JOIN our mailing list RIGHT NOW!<BR>
<BR>
Thanks you for your time.  GOOD LUCK & BEST WISHES TO YOU !!!<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>


----
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From owner-glass Mon Oct 18 07:00:49 1999
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	for rglass-42; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 05:54:01 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: m3.mail.net!manager
From: Manager <manager@m3.mail.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: hello
Date: 18 Oct 1999 13:47:21 -0000
Message-ID: <1999Oct18.134721.0>
Precedence: bulk


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From owner-glass Mon Oct 18 08:30:00 1999
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
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Subject: Re: black of glass painted black
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:46:06 EDT
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In a message dated 10/17/99 10:10:28 PM, GreerStudios@compuserve.com writes:

>Would not the caretakers
>use a paint that would be removable in the future?  I would.

I hadn't thought of the blackout thing, but then I'm only 46. (My mom and dad 
were 8 and 10 when Pearl Harbor was bombed, and they don't talk much about 
what went on during the war. Mom was living on the northern California coast 
at the time, and she says they did have to do the blackout thing.)

I wonder, though, if a durable-but-removable paint would have been readily 
available in war time, or if the people involved were sufficiently more 
alarmed over the possibility of being bombed that they just wanted to get 
everything covered up, pronto.

Does anyone have Julie Sloan's e-mail address? We really ought to ask her 
about this. (I volunteer - my enquiring mind wants to know!)


Sparks
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From owner-glass Mon Oct 18 10:32:09 1999
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Please remove my name from the Email list.
Thank you.
Ben Wydra
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From owner-glass Mon Oct 18 11:37:28 1999
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Subject: Re: black of glass painted black
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:37:58 -0700
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Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 10/17/99 10:10:28 PM, GreerStudios@compuserve.com writes:
>
> >Would not the caretakers
> >use a paint that would be removable in the future?  I would.
>
> I hadn't thought of the blackout thing, but then I'm only 46. (My mom and dad
> were 8 and 10 when Pearl Harbor was bombed, and they don't talk much about
> what went on during the war. Mom was living on the northern California coast
> at the time, and she says they did have to do the blackout thing.)
>
> I wonder, though, if a durable-but-removable paint would have been readily
> available in war time, or if the people involved were sufficiently more
> alarmed over the possibility of being bombed that they just wanted to get
> everything covered up, pronto.
>
> Does anyone have Julie Sloan's e-mail address? We really ought to ask her
> about this. (I volunteer - my enquiring mind wants to know!)

Hadn't thought of blackouts either ... but I guess I'm in good company <G>.

One thing is certain, it was not a 'water-based paint' of the latex or acrylic
variety since they didn't exist at that time; such paints date from the 1960's.
So it was very likely an oil based paint ... where the oils polymerize to form
the hardened layer and the color comes from pigments (usually finely ground metal
oxides) either trapped inside the newly formed polymer or chelated to the
polymer.  What we'd call an enamel paint today prolly.

If this is the case, repeat IF, then any commercial paint remover, essentially
methylene chloride and maybe a little methylethylketone mixed with a bit of low
MW polystrene should do the trick.

I don't know what such stuff would do to kiln fired glass paint, since its on the
opposite side of the glass, shouldn't do anything.

Anyway ... little time ... regards .... Bob


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From owner-glass Mon Oct 18 12:07:26 1999
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Subject: RE: black of glass painted black
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:59:37 -0400
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This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
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Being slightly younger than Sparks my knowledge is also second hand but...

Windows were blacked out with whatever was available. War time shortages
were widespread and not limited to food and gasoline. Time was a factor in
compliance. Unlike today where you have six month to comply blackout
conditions generally went into effect yesterday. You didn't have a lot of
time to shop around.

If the window was of European origin there is a second possibility. The
window may have been painted in an attempt to hide it from the Germans. In
at least one church the stained glass windows were replaced with wood panels
from the walls. The windows were reversed, painted over and replaced the
wood panels. It was hoped the RHSA, the branch of the Gestapo charged with
"protecting valuable artworks" and other things from looters, would miss or
not question the fact the walls were painted glass.

Vic M.

-----Original Message-----
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com [mailto:Witchdoc3@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 10:46 AM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: black of glass painted black



In a message dated 10/17/99 10:10:28 PM, GreerStudios@compuserve.com writes:

>Would not the caretakers
>use a paint that would be removable in the future?  I would.

I hadn't thought of the blackout thing, but then I'm only 46. (My mom and
dad 
were 8 and 10 when Pearl Harbor was bombed, and they don't talk much about 
what went on during the war. Mom was living on the northern California coast

at the time, and she says they did have to do the blackout thing.)

I wonder, though, if a durable-but-removable paint would have been readily 
available in war time, or if the people involved were sufficiently more 
alarmed over the possibility of being bombed that they just wanted to get 
everything covered up, pronto.

Does anyone have Julie Sloan's e-mail address? We really ought to ask her 
about this. (I volunteer - my enquiring mind wants to know!)


Sparks
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<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2448.0">
<TITLE>RE: black of glass painted black</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Being slightly younger than Sparks my knowledge is =
also second hand but...</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Windows were blacked out with whatever was available. =
War time shortages were widespread and not limited to food and =
gasoline. Time was a factor in compliance. Unlike today where you have =
six month to comply blackout conditions generally went into effect =
yesterday. You didn't have a lot of time to shop around.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>If the window was of European origin there is a =
second possibility. The window may have been painted in an attempt to =
hide it from the Germans. In at least one church the stained glass =
windows were replaced with wood panels from the walls. The windows were =
reversed, painted over and replaced the wood panels. It was hoped the =
RHSA, the branch of the Gestapo charged with &quot;protecting valuable =
artworks&quot; and other things from looters, would miss or not =
question the fact the walls were painted glass.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Vic M.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Witchdoc3@aol.com [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:Witchdoc3@aol.com">mailto:Witchdoc3@aol.com</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 10:46 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: glass@bungi.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: Re: black of glass painted black</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated 10/17/99 10:10:28 PM, =
GreerStudios@compuserve.com writes:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;Would not the caretakers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;use a paint that would be removable in the =
future?&nbsp; I would.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I hadn't thought of the blackout thing, but then I'm =
only 46. (My mom and dad </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>were 8 and 10 when Pearl Harbor was bombed, and they =
don't talk much about </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>what went on during the war. Mom was living on the =
northern California coast </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>at the time, and she says they did have to do the =
blackout thing.)</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I wonder, though, if a durable-but-removable paint =
would have been readily </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>available in war time, or if the people involved =
were sufficiently more </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>alarmed over the possibility of being bombed that =
they just wanted to get </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>everything covered up, pronto.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Does anyone have Julie Sloan's e-mail address? We =
really ought to ask her </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>about this. (I volunteer - my enquiring mind wants =
to know!)</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sparks</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>For subscription changes, please mail to: =
glass-request@bungi.com</FONT>
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HREF=3D"http://www.bungi.com/glass" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.bungi.com/glass</A></FONT>
</P>

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From owner-glass Mon Oct 18 14:27:54 1999
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I have tried to reach glassrequest@bungi.com but the Email did not go 
through. Please advise how to get my name off the mailing list?
Thank you.
Ben Wydra
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From owner-glass Mon Oct 18 14:57:46 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: black of glass painted black
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:12:16 -0400
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Message text written by rrk
>
One thing is certain, it was not a 'water-based paint' of the latex or
acrylic
variety since they didn't exist at that time;<

Actually, I believe casein paints are older and were
water-based.... though they are a trick to remove.
My guess is somebody mixed up some barn paint
and dyed it with lampblack.  Probably would have
held up against the weather pretty well.

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Mon Oct 18 19:00:49 1999
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You may also want to check with your local newspaper to see if they offer 
image output. One of my job responsibilities at our small town newspaper is 
imaging digital files for our newspaper and a customer base. Many printers 
now offer output services also.

______________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Mon Oct 18 19:31:07 1999
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Subject: Re: black of glass painted black
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:49:47 -0400
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Certainly the blackouts would have been the cause of painting the window
black.  The cost of painting windows would have been miniscule compared
with trying to curtain them, because most fabric wasn't meant to stop all
light from penetrating.  As I recall, the special blackout fabric was
expensive and hard to work with.  Black paint WAS commercially available
in the U.S. and in the early years I doubt if it was rationed, and yes it
probably would have been an ordinary cheap oil based paint - nothing
fancy.

My daughter bought a row house built around 1900 that had stained glass
transoms above the living room window and the entry door (with the house
number on it).  The guys that had begun to restore the house removed a
fake ceiling to discover the original stained glass, entirely painted on
both sides in several coats of white paint.  They unboarded the outside
of the transoms, and took the windows out, soaked them in paint remover
(what did they know and it couldn't have looked any worse than it already
did), and then gently scrubbed them with brushes and ungently scraped
them with razors and knives.  The windows came out looking pretty darned
good.  There were only a a few places where the paint simply wouldn't
come off - especially rough spots (flaws).  I don't recall that it harmed
the leading or cemented fill, although the came was never nice and smooth
and shiney - probably just ordinary oxidation, though.  Of course, these
windows were not painted/fired.  Thery were a mixture of opalescent and
cathedral - maybe Kokomo.  At least that's what she and I used to
recreate door panels that "matched" and looked like the real thing.

If this window is in the U.S., I suspect you may not have a hard time
getting the paint off - just time consuming and it will need some elbow
grease.
--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Tue Oct 19 05:38:32 1999
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Subject: Bentrup Controller
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 05:12:06 -0700 (PDT)
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Does anyone have experience using the Bentrup 405/30
kiln controller.  I need help!


=====

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From owner-glass Tue Oct 19 06:08:18 1999
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Subject: Re: black of glass painted black
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:25:52 EDT
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I have had pretty good luck with soaking the whole panel in soilax water for 
a while, and this seems to loosen a lot of stuff and then the grout comes 
away, too for a great job of regrouting.  But if they're this old, do they 
not need releading?
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From owner-glass Tue Oct 19 10:44:31 1999
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
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Subject: idea for christmas sales
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:10:52 -0700
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Hi Group,
I like to do castings, esp. the Metal Monster's fairies.
Well the sitting one is the most popular.  And I am going to make large
copper rings and solder them to the fairy's bottom.  Then the ring can
be slid onto a tree brach and she can be a christmas tree decoration.
Mad Dog is selling out cardinal castings and they would work also.
Flight into Fantasy has cherubs and hummingbirds that I want to try too.
The only real draw back of this idea; is that the bodies are made of
lead and they will need to be supported by large branches.  They will be
more expensive than your usual tree ornament and then there is the fact
they are made of lead and glass.  Small hands in the christmas tree??
Just a thought, in case any of you would like to try this at your
christmas shows.
And no I do not own stock in any of these companies.
Shirley B
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From owner-glass Tue Oct 19 11:14:12 1999
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To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: follow-up on soldering gun tip
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:03:20 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct19.3320.0>
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Hi group,
If you remember I was having trouble getting my tip off my new soldering
gun, because I had carefully put away the small allen wrench that came
with it.
Well I finally went down to my local supplier and he got out his set of
allen wrenches and determined the size to be 2mm.  He was going to let
me borrow it, until he said I could go to the local hardware and buy
one.
I was surprized that this small item would be sold here in our
backwaters hardware. But he assured me it would be.
So I cheerfully headed off to the hardware.  I hate the attitude that
the male salemen have to women in harewares and try to avoid them at all
costs.  Well I went up and down the tool aisle three times before I gave
in and asked if they had it.  "Oh! sure." says the guy, "Follow me."  So
off we go to the nuts and bolts aisle.  Ya know where they have all
those boxes with small drawers in them stacked on top of each other.
And sure enough there was a drawer full of small allen wrench and I got
the last 2mm one.
My point of telling you this story, is so, if you ever need a small
allen wrench you will know where to look!!!
Oh! and it only cost 40 cents.
Shirley B
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From owner-glass Wed Oct 20 01:25:27 1999
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To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: ideas needed
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 01:11:08 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct19.18118.0>
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OK Gang,
Anyone want to put on your creative caps and help me with a design?
I live 2 blocks off the Oregon Coast.  I have built raised flower boxes
from informal entry(backdoor)to formal entry(front door) and they are
decaying.
Now you must know by now that I make stepping stones with aggregate in
the background.  I have decided to make concrete blocks and use them for
the wall of the flower boxes.  Since concrete is heavy, I am thinking
that each block will be approx. 2'X2 1/2'. The wall is approx.(actually
it is 7 2X4's high, stacked on the 4" width)2 1/2' tall, in a 4'
section, a 6' section(going around the deck), a 18' section(in front of
the house), a 10' section along the side going to the other deck, two
small 3' sections on either side of the stairs and then a 16' sections
beside the other deck.
Now I have your typical two toned grey-blue(at the ocean)house, with
white trim.  So I will be using white rock in the back ground of this
wall. But I am at a lost for a running design.  Something oceany or
something floral.  Maybe geometric.  Nothing is coming to my mind.
Anyone have any suggestions on design?
Anyone have any suggestions on concrete wall work?
Thanks in advance.
Shirley B
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From owner-glass Wed Oct 20 07:59:53 1999
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X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>, glass
Subject: Re: ideas needed
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:14:42 PDT
Message-ID: <m11dwVm-0000VjC@daver.bungi.com>
Precedence: bulk

[In the message entitled "ideas needed" on Oct 20,  1:11, Shirley Balloch writes:]
> Anyone have any suggestions on design?
> Anyone have any suggestions on concrete wall work?

I think shells are pretty to put in concrete.  Have some sort
of pattern repeat using the shells.


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Wed Oct 20 09:12:16 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: NG!   Drumrolls Please!!   Winner of Puppy Name!
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:11:14 +0100
Message-ID: <199910201518.PAA07012@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk



Hello All Puppy Friends in Bungiland!

Jenny and I took bets on who suggested the final name for the 
puppy.
Jenny thought it was Hilary.... I thought it was Christie.
We were both wrong.

The funniest suggestions
Carol :                                        Jetlag - Jet for short
Suzanne G.                                 Margarita for a girl (except the    
                                                  poor thing might have been         
                                                  called Git for short, which is a     
                                                  colloquialism for nerd in              
                                                  England);
Claudette                                    Grinder  (oh yes; also suggested 
                                                  by someone else, considering    
                                                  what he might do to furniture)
Tracy Reitman                             Tutu (also suggested by Ann)

In the running:

There were quite a number suggestions.

On the short-list:
Ann                                            Uncle Sam - Sam for short
Christie Wood                              Bartholomew Braybark von Toby
                                                  (Bart, for short)
PJ                                               (A) Meric (a)

Start the drum-rolls here!!!!!

Theeee  Winnnnning Selection Isssss!!!:

                            Arunadur ( = kennel's name), Meric, Monterey
                                                 Meric - for short

Step forward PJ!!   Congratulations!!
 Select your week and don't leave it until puppy is no longer puppy!!!

Meric will take up his new residence the weekend of 20/21st 
November. In the meantime I'm collecting newspapers!!!

Thanks everybody for the wonderful suggestions!!!

Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK





----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Wed Oct 20 09:36:56 1999
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X-Path: erols.com!deethom
From: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: ideas needed
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:59:05 -0400
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19991020115904.009a0824@pop.erols.com>
Precedence: bulk


I like the shells, too, but I absolutely love sand castings...maybe with
just a very light touch of color to shade the imprints.
Dee
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From owner-glass Wed Oct 20 10:03:07 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu
From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: ideas needed
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:25:33 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct20.22533.0>
Precedence: bulk

>>I think shells are pretty to put in concrete.  Have some sort
of pattern repeat using the shells.<<

And throw in a lot of blue wave shapes for water.

Bob in SOCAL

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From owner-glass Wed Oct 20 10:32:55 1999
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: addition to ideas needed
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:55:11 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct20.25511.0>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

Hi group,
I neglected to point out that I also have an unobstructed back side view
of the Yaquina Light House.
I was thinking about tying that in, but with it just two blocks down the
road, would that be over kill?
Thanks in advance.
Shirley B
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From owner-glass Wed Oct 20 12:04:56 1999
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X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye
From: "Kaye Sodt" <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Hey Howard???
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 13:10:21 CST 6CDT
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Organization: GSA-ORSP
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Is it too late to send the postcard to your wife's class?  I finally 
remembered to pick one up and now I don't know what I did with 
the address.  If they'd like a card from Chicago, please send the 
address again.

Kaye
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From owner-glass Wed Oct 20 12:33:00 1999
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie_Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie_Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Prescott Arizona Glass Artists studio tour
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:48:11 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct20.104811.0>
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Someone was asking recently about Arizona Glass events. I just received the
following notice:
----------------------------------
Subject: Arizona Designer Craftsmen Open Studio Tour
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:32:42 -0700
From: "rowena" <rowenabeads@email.msn.com>

Arizona Designer Craftsmen Open Studio Tour has several glass blowing
studios on it's tour as well as Lampwork bead makers and jewelry
designers  - Thanksgiving Weekend Friday, Nov 26 and Sat. Nov 27 from 9am to
5 pm.  Brochures and maps can be picked up in Prescott at Arts Prescott,
Artemisia, both on Whiskey Row and Artist Workshop in Cottonwood.  If you
wish to be on the mailing list e-mail me.  Rowenabeads@emailmsn.com

Come meet some of Arizona's most talented professional artisans in an
informal setting.  Demonstrations all day.  Watch for our "ADC" signs and
magenta and black ballons along the way of the self guided tour.
----------------------------------
regards,
charlie
phx, az
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From owner-glass Wed Oct 20 12:33:05 1999
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X-Path: island.net!seaspray
From: seaspray@island.net (synergyglass)
To: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: addition to ideas needed
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:25:57 -0700
Message-ID: <199910201825.LAA19582@mimas.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

>Hi group,
>I neglected to point out that I also have an unobstructed back side view
>of the Yaquina Light House.
>I was thinking about tying that in, but with it just two blocks down the
>road, would that be over kill?
>Thanks in advance.
>Shirley B

I think it would probably look incredibly tacky...sort of like having
dwarves in your yard!  Casual elegance is a look I always go
for...understated, yet well designed.

Don't forget those gorillas to move the big slabs into place!

C.
Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

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From owner-glass Wed Oct 20 12:59:36 1999
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X-Path: nso.uchc.edu!kalahan
From: "Kalahan,Dorothy" <kalahan@nso.uchc.edu>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: NG Toxins
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:31:25 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct20.113125.0>
Precedence: bulk

I've been lurking and reading off another computer because my computer
crashed (heavily) at an exrememly inconvenient time (think daughter with
bunches of college papers to do, for one thing).  But I could not resist
this:  just bumped into some articles describing the chemistry of a group of
toxins (one said snake toxin) called

BUNGAROTOXINS

(So what do we think the symptoms of poisoning are?
An irrisistable urge to cut glass?
Soldering to exhaustion?
Compulsively wrapping things in copper foil?)

Dorothy 

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From owner-glass Wed Oct 20 14:14:12 1999
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X-Path: sympatico.ca!tandg.higson
From: Anthony Higson <tandg.higson@sympatico.ca>
To: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: NG!   Drumrolls Please!!   Winner of Puppy Name!
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:32:42 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Oct20.113242.0>
References: <<199910201518.PAA07012@saturn.nildram.co.uk>>
Precedence: bulk

Hello,
Where I come from in England git is a short form for basket or in other words bastard.

Don't know if I'd want to call a puppy by that name but one never knows.
Gillian H.

Toby wrote:

> Hello All Puppy Friends in Bungiland!
>
> Jenny and I took bets on who suggested the final name for the
> puppy.
> Jenny thought it was Hilary.... I thought it was Christie.
> We were both wrong.
>
> The funniest suggestions
> Carol :                                        Jetlag - Jet for short
> Suzanne G.                                 Margarita for a girl (except the
>                                                   poor thing might have been
>                                                   called Git for short, which is a
>                                                   colloquialism for nerd in
>                                                   England);
> Claudette                                    Grinder  (oh yes; also suggested
>                                                   by someone else, considering
>                                                   what he might do to furniture)
> Tracy Reitman                             Tutu (also suggested by Ann)
>
> In the running:
>
> There were quite a number suggestions.
>
> On the short-list:
> Ann                                            Uncle Sam - Sam for short
> Christie Wood                              Bartholomew Braybark von Toby
>                                                   (Bart, for short)
> PJ                                               (A) Meric (a)
>
> Start the drum-rolls here!!!!!
>
> Theeee  Winnnnning Selection Isssss!!!:
>
>                             Arunadur ( = kennel's name), Meric, Monterey
>                                                  Meric - for short
>
> Step forward PJ!!   Congratulations!!
>  Select your week and don't leave it until puppy is no longer puppy!!!
>
> Meric will take up his new residence the weekend of 20/21st
> November. In the meantime I'm collecting newspapers!!!
>
> Thanks everybody for the wonderful suggestions!!!
>
> Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
>
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Wed Oct 20 14:39:23 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: ideas needed
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:51:01 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct20.12511.0>
References: <<1999Oct19.18118.0>>
Organization: Mike's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

Shirley Balloch wrote:
> 
> OK Gang,
> Anyone want to put on your creative caps and help me with a design?
> I live 2 blocks off the Oregon Coast.  I have built raised flower boxes
> from informal entry(backdoor)to formal entry(front door) and they are
> decaying.
> Now you must know by now that I make stepping stones with aggregate in
> the background.  I have decided to make concrete blocks and use them for
> the wall of the flower boxes.  Since concrete is heavy, I am thinking
> that each block will be approx. 2'X2 1/2'. The wall is approx.(actually
> it is 7 2X4's high, stacked on the 4" width)2 1/2' tall, in a 4'
> section, a 6' section(going around the deck), a 18' section(in front of
> the house), a 10' section along the side going to the other deck, two
> small 3' sections on either side of the stairs and then a 16' sections
> beside the other deck.
> Now I have your typical two toned grey-blue(at the ocean)house, with
> white trim.  So I will be using white rock in the back ground of this
> wall. But I am at a lost for a running design.  Something oceany or
> something floral.  Maybe geometric.  Nothing is coming to my mind.
> Anyone have any suggestions on design?
> Anyone have any suggestions on concrete wall work?
> Thanks in advance.
> Shirley B
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


how about this:

forget about making slabs. instead get marine plywood, and cement board.
make a box, glue the glass to that and build it like a mosiac. it should
last for a pretty long time. and you could probably cover the whole
thing in glass. 


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making
your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are
also a lot of new Sky City pictures.
----
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From owner-glass Wed Oct 20 16:27:31 1999
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From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: ideas needed
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:51:01 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct20.12511.0>
References: <<1999Oct19.18118.0>>
Organization: Mike's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

Shirley Balloch wrote:
> 
> OK Gang,
> Anyone want to put on your creative caps and help me with a design?
> I live 2 blocks off the Oregon Coast.  I have built raised flower boxes
> from informal entry(backdoor)to formal entry(front door) and they are
> decaying.
> Now you must know by now that I make stepping stones with aggregate in
> the background.  I have decided to make concrete blocks and use them for
> the wall of the flower boxes.  Since concrete is heavy, I am thinking
> that each block will be approx. 2'X2 1/2'. The wall is approx.(actually
> it is 7 2X4's high, stacked on the 4" width)2 1/2' tall, in a 4'
> section, a 6' section(going around the deck), a 18' section(in front of
> the house), a 10' section along the side going to the other deck, two
> small 3' sections on either side of the stairs and then a 16' sections
> beside the other deck.
> Now I have your typical two toned grey-blue(at the ocean)house, with
> white trim.  So I will be using white rock in the back ground of this
> wall. But I am at a lost for a running design.  Something oceany or
> something floral.  Maybe geometric.  Nothing is coming to my mind.
> Anyone have any suggestions on design?
> Anyone have any suggestions on concrete wall work?
> Thanks in advance.
> Shirley B
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


how about this:

forget about making slabs. instead get marine plywood, and cement board.
make a box, glue the glass to that and build it like a mosiac. it should
last for a pretty long time. and you could probably cover the whole
thing in glass. 


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making
your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are
also a lot of new Sky City pictures.
----
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From owner-glass Wed Oct 20 17:33:12 1999
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: duplicate messages
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:51:16 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct20.155116.0>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

I remember someone else wondering about this some time ago but never saw
any answer:

I get duplicate messages quite a lot.  I suppose it is possible that
messages sometimes get sent twice when you are not certain the message
went because of some glitch or so, but constantly?

I also get blank messages and then I see replies to those messages, so
there must have been something there.
I expect some of them come from hitting the send key before typing the
message (yup-I've done that) but many times?  And especially when others
seem to see something?

I'm running a Mac G3 (MacOS 8.6) with LOTS of RAM and 40 Mb specifically
for Netscape 4.7, so I can't imagine why this happens.  Anyone else?
It's just on Bundi. - Cecily

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Wed Oct 20 19:02:06 1999
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X-Path: ceps.nasm.edu!jellison
From: Pat Jellison <jellison@ceps.nasm.edu>
To: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: duplicate messages
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:21:16 -0400
Message-ID: <380E6A8B.9940E971@ceps.nasm.edu>
References: <<1999Oct20.155116.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I get the blank messages and duplicate messages too.  It
happens both on my Mac G3 and on my Windows machine.  Also
only on Bungi.

PJ Jellison (jellison@ceps.nasm.edu)

Cecily and Ralph Wood wrote:
> 
> I get duplicate messages quite a lot. 
... 
> I also get blank messages and then I see replies to those messages, so
> there must have been something there.
...
> I'm running a Mac G3 (MacOS 8.6) with LOTS of RAM and 40 Mb specifically
> for Netscape 4.7, so I can't imagine why this happens.  Anyone else?
> It's just on Bundi. - Cecily
>
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From owner-glass Wed Oct 20 19:38:10 1999
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From: patrick kelly <patrickkelly1@yahoo.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Glass in El Paso Texas
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:48:02 -0700 (PDT)
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Next month I'll be going to El Paso, TX for 4 days.
Anybody know of any good glass places to visit?

TIA

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Wed Oct 20 20:03:03 1999
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Subject: Need pictures
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 99 07:39:48 
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of the stained glass windows in either the cathedral of Saint Petronius in Bologna or in 
the chapel of the Bentivoglio palace.

Can anyone help me out?

Candy

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From owner-glass Wed Oct 20 20:37:33 1999
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From: alipearson@webtv.net (alipea)
To: cecnralph@home.com (Cecily and Ralph Wood)
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Subject: Re: duplicate messages
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:56:50 -0400 (EDT)
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Sometimes the blank ones are text color is a really dark color & if you
highlight  all or select all (Control A),  cut (control c) & paste it
(control v) into any word processing or Email, the color will usually be
readable.
About doubles, the first time I posted i wasn't sure if it worked so i
posted again (sorry 'bout that).  Sometimes spams arrive twice?

Ali of 
Blue Moon Glass Works blmoonglasswrks@webtv,net

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From owner-glass Wed Oct 20 22:03:23 1999
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Subject: Re: duplicate messages
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:14:55 -0700
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Cecily and Ralph Wood wrote:

> I remember someone else wondering about this some time ago but never saw
> any answer:
>
> I get duplicate messages quite a lot.  I suppose it is possible that
> messages sometimes get sent twice when you are not certain the message
> went because of some glitch or so, but constantly?
>
> I also get blank messages and then I see replies to those messages, so
> there must have been something there.
> I expect some of them come from hitting the send key before typing the
> message (yup-I've done that) but many times?  And especially when others
> seem to see something?
>
> I'm running a Mac G3 (MacOS 8.6) with LOTS of RAM and 40 Mb specifically
> for Netscape 4.7, so I can't imagine why this happens.  Anyone else?
> It's just on Bundi. - Cecily

Its not your client program... but the server-side listserv program used to
'relay' the message.

I could give you a long complex explantion of why ... but ... in everyday
language  ... essentially, the listserv prog used for Bungi burps a lot.
[where burps =  programmer jargon for 'screws up'].

I'd write more but my girl wants me to read to her.  Maybe another time.

The bottom line : its not you, its the program used to relay msg's to the
entire list, and changing clients won't help.

Bob






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From owner-glass Thu Oct 21 01:41:08 1999
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From: seaspray@island.net (synergyglass)
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Subject: quick help pls...question on kitchen cabinets
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 00:02:01 -0700
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One thing about this business...new things pop up all the time!

Kitchen cabinet frames were delivered to me tonight from a new (to me)
cabinet shop.  Instead of having the frames with properly squared off
rabbetts at the corners, these are rounded off instead, therefore the square
corners of the brass came border will NOT properly fit the frames. Any other
cabinet panels I've done have had square corners so the panels slip in easily.

The panels haven't been built yet (was going to start tonight) and I'm
wondering what suggestions y'all have.  The only one I can come up with at
midnight is to send them back and have the corners squared properly.  Any
other suggestions?  Am I missing something obvious? If I was using lead came
I could round the glass and shave away the 1/2" H came, but doing that with
1/2" brass U came would look terrible and weaken the corner substantially also.

The history behind this project is already horrendous, and is turning into a
"piggy project" before I even cut glass.  For instance here's today's little
surprise...I bid on rectangular windows and the client ended up going with a
Colonial style top...straight on the top with a hump in the middle
section...bending the brass came to fit that little hump is going to be fun
(and is going to cost them extra).

Oh, and of course they want them yesterday after messing around for 2 months!

Thanks in advance for the help.
Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

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From owner-glass Thu Oct 21 04:13:24 1999
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From: Gerry Phibbs <glasscutter@earthlink.net>
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Hi Shirley,
  Don't try to put the lighthouse in the design.  Put some of the light
*from* that lighthouse in there.
  Peace  -Gerry
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From owner-glass Thu Oct 21 06:11:05 1999
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Bungirot...This is what you get when you drink the coffee, the flux brush was 
in :D ......Abbie in VA
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From owner-glass Thu Oct 21 10:44:52 1999
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Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:05:12 -0400
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Please place me back in the list.=A0 I am back.

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From owner-glass Thu Oct 21 12:29:08 1999
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Subject: kitchen cabinets...thanks
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:33:04 -0700
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Thanks to all who gave suggestions.  I phoned the cabinet company and
they're going to square out the corners for me.  Better them than me, in
case a chisel slips!!

C.
Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

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From owner-glass Thu Oct 21 13:31:52 1999
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From: Brad Walker <mbwalker@ix.netcom.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>, Pat Jellison <jellison@ceps.nasm.edu>
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Pat Jellison wrote:

> I get the blank messages and duplicate messages too.  It
> happens both on my Mac G3 and on my Windows machine.  Also
> only on Bungi.
>

Yeah, there are a couple of other things that happen "only on Bungi."

For example, I get a lot of e-mail that's directed from one Bungi member
to another (but not to the bungi list) -- it just mysteriously shows up in
my inbox, having gone through the "daver.bungi.com" interface.  (So be
careful what you say about me behind my back -- I might accidently
get the e-mail. <g>).

One other thing:  since joining Bungi the amount of junk mail I get has
increased dramatically.  Anyone else notice this?

And finally, Bungi is the only list I belong to where junk mail actually
appears ON the list.

I guess the glass talk makes it worthwhile, but the wasted bandwidth (not
to mention my time spent reading and deleting) is sure a pain.

Brad Walker


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From owner-glass Thu Oct 21 14:35:04 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu
From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "synergyglass" <seaspray@island.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: quick help pls...question on kitchen cabinets
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:20:40 -0700
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>>Kitchen cabinet frames were delivered to me tonight from a new >>(to me)
cabinet shop.  Instead of having the frames with >>properly squared off
rabbetts at the corners, these are >>rounded off instead, therefore the
square corners of the >>brass came border will NOT properly fit the frames.
Any other >>cabinet panels I've done have had square corners so the >>panels
slip in easily.

>>The panels haven't been built yet (was going to start tonight) >>and I'm
wondering what suggestions y'all have.  The only one I >>can come up with at
>>midnight is to send them back and have the corners squared >>properly.
Any other suggestions?  Am I missing something obvious?

I say round off the brass frame stock and next time make sure the cabinet
shop knows what you expect.

>>If I was using lead came I could round the glass and shave >>away the 1/2"
H came, but doing that with 1/2" brass U came >>would look terrible and
weaken the corner substantially also.

Strength in the corners should not be a big thing in an installed panel.

>>The history behind this project is already horrendous, and is >>turning
into a "piggy project" before I even cut glass.

That is another good reason for you to bite the bullet and get the job done.

>>For instance here's today's little surprise...I bid on rectangular
>>windows and the client ended up going with a Colonial style
>>top...straight on the top with a hump in the
middlesection...bending the brass came to fit that little hump is going to
be fun (and is going to cost them extra).

Again, better communication with the cabinet shop is in order.

>>Oh, and of course they want them yesterday after messing >>around for 2
months!

Cabinet shops can deliver you several orders a month. With this in mind it
is important to work closely with them so that there are no hang ups in the
jobs. If you cause them rework, they are likely to take their business
elsewhere.

Bob in SOCAL


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From owner-glass Thu Oct 21 16:58:29 1999
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To: "Brad Walker" <mbwalker@ix.netcom.com>, <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: duplicate messages
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:49:44 -0700
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> > I get the blank messages

I used to think the blanks were server side.   But they have gone away ever
since I upgraded to MS Outlook Express 5 (comes with IE 5).  So it must be
client side.

> > and duplicate messages too.

The duplicates are definitely a burp on the bungi list server.  I have
traced them back and they were always sent out from the daver.bungi.com
twice at different times.

> For example, I get a lot of e-mail that's directed from one Bungi member
> to another (but not to the bungi list) -- it just mysteriously shows up in
> my inbox, having gone through the "daver.bungi.com" interface.  (So be
> careful what you say about me behind my back -- I might accidently
> get the e-mail. <g>).

I have never made sense of this one.  The couple of times I traced the
message, there was always a "BCC" (Blind Carbon Copy) to bungi.  But I don't
think the senders intended this.  Where the heck this come from is a total
mystery to me.

Also, the newest thing - messages from the bungi list server without the
normal four lines of contact email addresses on the end.  Since my email
client sorts bungi messages into a different folder based on this stuff,
these messages end up in the wrong place.  I read them out of sequence and
boy am I confused.

> One other thing:  since joining Bungi the amount of junk mail I get has
> increased dramatically.  Anyone else notice this?

The constant increase in junk mail seems to be just a function of the longer
you have been sending emails on the 'net.  I blamed bungi at first too.  But
now that I have my own domain name I am able to set up multiple email
accounts for different purposes.  The email address I use for bungi has
actually generated significantly less junk mail than many of the other email
addresses I use.

The worst by far was actually a BBS message on American Bevel's Designer
forum that had an email address in it.  One of the search engines stupidly
picked up and indexed the entire forum including this message.  Bingo -
hundreds of emails from the spam-bots.

There may have also been a time when the bungi archives were open to
spam-bots.  But to all appearences this is no longer the case.

> And finally, Bungi is the only list I belong to where junk mail actually
> appears ON the list.

This is a function of the number of web pages out there with the link to the
bungi list web page on them.  I think it is also due to the fact that the
bungi list web page does not appear to have any robot exclusion protocols.
The spam-bots keep linking to this page.  Since they don't see a robot
exclusion meta command or a robots.txt file excluding the page, even those
that are following the new U.S. anti-spam legislation go ahead and search
the page.  The spam-bot picks up the bungi address and bing-bang-boom we got
junk.

It has also been suggested bungi become "subscriber only".  But this messes
up any time someone is travelling and uses a different e-mail to send a
message.  Messages from an non-subscribed email would be rejected.  This
appears to cause more problems than simply hitting the "delete" button on
the junk mail, so it was left as it always was.


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From owner-glass Thu Oct 21 17:19:23 1999
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From: "Michele S" <mrsdesigns@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Subject: Re: duplicate messages/Bungi-isms
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:02:40 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Oct21.23240.0>
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I believe that sometimes the messages that were meant for personal viewing 
come from the fact that someone hits their "reply to all" button without 
realizing it.

I also recieve very little mail at this address besides Bungi and don't 
notice an inordinate amount of spam.  I don't want any spam, but it's only 1 
or 2 once in a while.

These are little glitches to me as compared to all of the information I have 
gained from subscribing to this list.

Michele

>From: Brad Walker <mbwalker@ix.netcom.com>
>To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>, Pat Jellison 
><jellison@ceps.nasm.edu>
>Subject: Re: duplicate messages
>Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:40:56 -0400
>
>
>
>Pat Jellison wrote:
>
> > I get the blank messages and duplicate messages too.  It
> > happens both on my Mac G3 and on my Windows machine.  Also
> > only on Bungi.
> >
>
>Yeah, there are a couple of other things that happen "only on Bungi."
>
>For example, I get a lot of e-mail that's directed from one Bungi member
>to another (but not to the bungi list) -- it just mysteriously shows up in
>my inbox, having gone through the "daver.bungi.com" interface.  (So be
>careful what you say about me behind my back -- I might accidently
>get the e-mail. <g>).
>
>One other thing:  since joining Bungi the amount of junk mail I get has
>increased dramatically.  Anyone else notice this?
>
>And finally, Bungi is the only list I belong to where junk mail actually
>appears ON the list.
>
>I guess the glass talk makes it worthwhile, but the wasted bandwidth (not
>to mention my time spent reading and deleting) is sure a pain.
>
>Brad Walker
>
>
>----
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

______________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Thu Oct 21 17:20:28 1999
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X-Path: chalcot.com.au!chalcot
From: "Gordon Newell" <chalcot@chalcot.com.au>
To: "glass" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: FW: quick help pls...question on kitchen cabinets
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 07:57:33 +1000
Message-ID: <1999Oct22.175733.0>
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Don't round of anything. Send em back, and then they will KNOW what you
expect! Otherwise they will know you can do it with rounded cut outs and
since it's easier for them, that's what you'll get.

Gordon.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Duchesneau [mailto:bobdu@prodigy.net]
Sent: Friday, 22 October 1999 5:21 AM
To: Bungi; synergyglass
Subject: Re: quick help pls...question on kitchen cabinets


[snip]

>>The panels haven't been built yet (was going to start tonight) >>and I'm
wondering what suggestions y'all have.  The only one I >>can come up with at
>>midnight is to send them back and have the corners squared >>properly.
Any other suggestions?  Am I missing something obvious?

I say round off the brass frame stock and next time make sure the cabinet
shop knows what you expect.

[snip]

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From owner-glass Thu Oct 21 18:19:48 1999
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: [Fwd: duplicate messages]
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:49:04 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct21.16494.0>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

Thought others might be interested since I got a number of replies.



> Cecily Wood wrote:
>
>
> > I get duplicate messages quite a lot.  I suppose it is possible that
> > messages sometimes get sent twice when you are not certain the message
> > went because of some glitch or so, but constantly?

Bob (rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net> replied:

Its not your client program... but the server-side listserv program used to
'relay' the message.

I could give you a long complex explantion of why ... but ... in everyday
language  ... essentially, the listserv prog used for Bungi burps a lot.
[where burps =  programmer jargon for 'screws up'].

The bottom line : its not you, its the program used to relay msg's to the
entire list, and changing clients won't help.


>
> >
> > I also get blank messages and then I see replies to those messages, so
> > there must have been something there.
> > I expect some of them come from hitting the send key before typing the
> > message (yup-I've done that) but many times?  And especially when others
> > seem to see something?


 Ali (alipearson@webtv.net (alipea)) of
Blue Moon Glass Works blmoonglasswrks@webtv,net   replied


Sometimes the blank ones are [color related]... if you
highlight  all or select all,  cut & paste it into any word processing or
Email,
the color will usually be readable.

>
> >
> > It's just on Bundi. - Cecily
>

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Thu Oct 21 18:50:26 1999
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X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary
From: Hilary <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: NG!   Drumrolls Please!!   Winner of Puppy Name!
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:11:57 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct21.171157.0>
References: <<199910201518.PAA07012@saturn.nildram.co.uk>>
Precedence: bulk

Elisabeth-

Hummmm, I like it.  Well, the Monterey part best. Monty for short. Ahhh!
The full Monty for when he's grown!!! <vbg>

Love to Jenny and little Toby too. Has he let you out of his sight yet?

Hilary


>Arunadur ( = kennel's name), Meric, Monterey
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From owner-glass Thu Oct 21 19:50:55 1999
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Soldering Irons
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:55:08 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1999Oct21.11558.0>
Precedence: bulk


Help, Please.  I usually recommend the Weller SP80 for beginning students.
Tonight I had a call from a student who said, "someone" said the SP80 was
the worst soldering iron around and suggested she get a Hakko 455 or
the Insta-Inland.  Except both cost about twice as much as the SP80, what
are the pros and cons of the three soldering irons.  I would especially
like to hear from those of you who use these irons.  Thanks you, Peggy

----
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From owner-glass Thu Oct 21 20:22:57 1999
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X-Path: twinwolf.net!dimitrovich
From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" <dimitrovich@twinwolf.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Printing Patterns Solution
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:17:21 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct21.181721.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone.

I just checked my printer properties in Windows and there is an option for
"enlarge for poster printing". The printer I use the most is an NEC
SuperScript 860 laser.

It appears my problems are solved in this matter. I can print up to 6 pages
wide by 6 pages long. a 36 page square pattern should satisfy my current
requirements so I'm set.

It seems that until we need to utilize a specific feature/option on hardware
or software, we don't always know what it can do. I've had this printer for
3 years and never used that. I've always used the reducing feature. If I
need to print out text just for reference I usually print 4 pages on 1 to
save toner and paper.

Thanks to all you wonderful Bungians who offered such great advice and tips.

Pamela


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From owner-glass Thu Oct 21 21:56:15 1999
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X-Path: foxinternet.net!lin
From: "lin" <lin@foxinternet.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: quiet list?!
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:14:50 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct21.141450.0>
Precedence: bulk

i just realized that i haven't been getting messages since i returned from
vacation...... wondering if all is really this quiet or if something fritzed
in my system while i was gone?!?!?!?!?!?!?
layla


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From owner-glass Fri Oct 22 05:06:23 1999
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From: Joseph Augusta <jaugusta@capecod.net>
To: glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Cutting oil formula?
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 07:34:45 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct22.33445.0>
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Anyone have a no-fail home formula for cutting oil?

Best wishes,
Joseph

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From owner-glass Fri Oct 22 08:51:07 1999
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X-Path: moscow.com!kinkeade
From: kinkeade@moscow.com (Tim Kinkeade)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Historic Glass
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 07:56:57 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <199910221456.HAA22124@whale.fsr.net>
Precedence: bulk

Greetings,
I wanted to take a moment to thank the list for your help with my questions
on historic stain glass.
Your a very friendly & helpful bunch.
Thanks!
:-)

Tim Kinkeade




Tim Kinkeade
Advantage America Mortgage
121 East Third Street
Moscow, ID 83843
phone: 208-882-4530
FAX: 208-882-4992
email: kinkeade@moscow.com



From owner-glass Fri Oct 22 09:12:42 1999
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: question and comment
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:14:24 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct22.11424.0>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

Hi Group,
I have asked this before, but........
Does anyone know of a good inexpensive glue that glues glass to glass.
I am trying the E-6000 and waiting 24-72 hours is frustrating.
And I used some oops to remove the adhesive gum off a suncatcher for a
customer a show or so ago.  Well I swear it did not only get the goo off
with one gentle swipe it also brighten up the solder seams.
Thanks in advance.
Shirley B
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From owner-glass Fri Oct 22 09:37:57 1999
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From: mschut@nbnet.nb.ca (mschut)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Hobby Came
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:07:32
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991022110732.19a799d2@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>
Precedence: bulk

This may be a really dumb question, but I once was told the only dumb
question is the one that isn't asked.

I just started working with hobby came for jewelry boxes, and the finish on
it is a very dull grey.  How do I get it to be the same shiny silver as the
63/37 solder?  Is this done by tinning it?
Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & Devin Schut
Moncton, New Brunswick
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From owner-glass Fri Oct 22 10:18:00 1999
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To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re:Membership
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:20:16 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Oct22.162016.0>
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Hello,

Can you please remove me from your mailing list for now.  I appreciated the 
inforamton I received but for the time being, Please remove me from your list.

Thank you,

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From owner-glass Fri Oct 22 11:20:44 1999
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X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods
From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: question and comment
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:37:12 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct22.33712.0>
References: <<38107F50.81A@netbridge.net>>
Precedence: bulk

So long as you follow the safety precautions, Bond 527 is pretty good and
fairly inexpensive.  You really must follow the "good ventilation" rules.
Also keep it off your hands and/or use a good barrier cream.  Not
appropriate for food contact.

Bond 527 seems to be something with significant quantity discounts.  A
single tube from a retail hobby store costs a fair amount.  A case of tubes
from a wholesaler seems to 1/5th and sometimes as little as 1/10th the
retail price.

What you use also depends on what you are doing with it.  Bond 527 is NOT
conservator grade glue.  I have never had it yellow yet, but it also comes
with no guarantees in this regard.  But you said "inexpensive", so I am also
taking it that you are using it in circumstances where "inexpensive" is
appropriate.

----- Original Message -----
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Cc: <glass@intrastar.net>
Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 8:14 AM
Subject: question and comment


> Hi Group,
> I have asked this before, but........
> Does anyone know of a good inexpensive glue that glues glass to glass.
> I am trying the E-6000 and waiting 24-72 hours is frustrating.
> And I used some oops to remove the adhesive gum off a suncatcher for a
> customer a show or so ago.  Well I swear it did not only get the goo off
> with one gentle swipe it also brighten up the solder seams.
> Thanks in advance.
> Shirley B

----
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From owner-glass Fri Oct 22 11:44:46 1999
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: RE: Soldering Irons
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:18:09 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct22.9189.0>
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This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_001_01BF1CB1.69D4B500
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"

My SP80 is over 10 years old and still works.
Gone through a few tips but that's to be expected.

Vic M.

-----Original Message-----
From: Peggy W. Johnsen [mailto:edupjohn@slonet.org]
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 9:55 PM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Soldering Irons



Help, Please.  I usually recommend the Weller SP80 for beginning students.
Tonight I had a call from a student who said, "someone" said the SP80 was
the worst soldering iron around and suggested she get a Hakko 455 or
the Insta-Inland.  Except both cost about twice as much as the SP80, what
are the pros and cons of the three soldering irons.  I would especially
like to hear from those of you who use these irons.  Thanks you, Peggy

----
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<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2448.0">
<TITLE>RE: Soldering Irons</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>My SP80 is over 10 years old and still works.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Gone through a few tips but that's to be expected.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Vic M.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: Peggy W. Johnsen [<A HREF="mailto:edupjohn@slonet.org">mailto:edupjohn@slonet.org</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 9:55 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: glass@bungi.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: Soldering Irons</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Help, Please.&nbsp; I usually recommend the Weller SP80 for beginning students.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Tonight I had a call from a student who said, &quot;someone&quot; said the SP80 was</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>the worst soldering iron around and suggested she get a Hakko 455 or</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>the Insta-Inland.&nbsp; Except both cost about twice as much as the SP80, what</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>are the pros and cons of the three soldering irons.&nbsp; I would especially</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>like to hear from those of you who use these irons.&nbsp; Thanks you, Peggy</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To send to the list,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; please mail to: glass@bungi.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Archives available at <A HREF="http://www.bungi.com/glass" TARGET="_blank">http://www.bungi.com/glass</A></FONT>
</P>

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From owner-glass Fri Oct 22 11:47:08 1999
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
Subject: Re: Soldering Irons
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 19:02:07 +0100
Message-ID: <1999Oct22.2027.0>
References: <<1999Oct21.11558.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

We have had Weller 100s running full bore for years with no
difficulties.  The 80 watt version is a bit under powered and has no
temperature control.  (I don't like reostats)
Steve

In message <1999Oct21.11558.0@?>, Peggy W. Johnsen <edupjohn@slonet.org>
writes
>
>Help, Please.  I usually recommend the Weller SP80 for beginning students.
>Tonight I had a call from a student who said, "someone" said the SP80 was
>the worst soldering iron around and suggested she get a Hakko 455 or
>the Insta-Inland.  Except both cost about twice as much as the SP80, what
>are the pros and cons of the three soldering irons.  I would especially
>like to hear from those of you who use these irons.  Thanks you, Peggy

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
----
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From owner-glass Fri Oct 22 13:55:32 1999
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X-Path: socent.org!atf
From: "ATF Distribution Center-K. See" <atf@socent.org>
To: bungi <glass@bungi.com>, "glass@intrastar.net" <glass@intrastar.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: NEA Funding
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:25:38 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct22.112538.0>
Organization: SOC Enterprises
Precedence: bulk

This was just received,  I hope this is current info.

David and Dale Barnes wrote:

> This is an urgent message from the Arts Council K.SEE for you to see and
> pass on. Thanks
> db
>
> Subject: NEA Funding
>
> > To:  Arts Groups in Fairfax County
> >
> > Re: Funding for the National Endowment for the Arts - ACTION NEEDED!
> >
> > From:   Thomas L. Birch, Legislative Counsel, National Association of
> State
> > Arts Agencies
> >
> > Presidential Veto Likely on Interior Appropriations Bill
> > Action Needed to Urge Arts Increase
> >
> > Action has been called off on the FY 2000 Interior Appropriations Bill,
> > which includes no increase for the National Endowment for the Arts. With
> > the refusal of the leading Democrats on the House-Senate conference
> > committee to sign the final, drafted agreement, the bill cannot move
> > forward to the House floor for a final vote.
> >
> > Both Rep. Norm Dicks (D-WA), ranking member on the Interior Appropriations
> > Subcommittee, and Rep. David Obey (D-WI), ranking member on the
> > Appropriations Committee, indicated that their decision not to sign the
> > conference report was based at least in part on the failure to increase
> > funds for the NEA. At the same time, the Republican leaders in the House
> do
> > not appear to have enough votes from their own party members to pass the
> > bill, due to opposition on environmental issues in the bill.
> >
> > In the background is the motion proposed by Dicks and adopted by the House
> > on October 4, directing the House conferees to accept the additional $5
> > million for the NEA passed in the Senate bill. While the motion was
> > nonbinding, its approval by 218 House members (including 31 Republicans)
> > indicates a significant level of support for additional funds to NEA.
> >
> > It is generally understood that if the Interior bill passes Congress in
> its
> > current form, President Clinton will veto the bill. It is important that
> > his objections to the bill include the lack of increased arts funding.
> > Calls to the White House, urging the president to include increased funds
> > to the NEA in his requirements for the Interior Appropriations Bill, would
> > help to remind the president of his commitment at the beginning of the
> year
> > to growth in the arts endowment's budget.
> >
> > Action:  Please take a moment to call the White House switchboard to
> > register your support for an increase in NEA funds in the president's
> > requirements for the Interior Appropriations Bill. You may call the White
> > House at 202-456-1414.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

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From owner-glass Fri Oct 22 15:22:37 1999
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From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: Joseph Augusta <jaugusta@capecod.net>
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Subject: Re: Cutting oil formula?
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:18:50 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct22.131850.0>
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Joseph Augusta wrote:
> 
> Anyone have a no-fail home formula for cutting oil?
> 
> Best wishes,
> Joseph
> 
> ----
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i use a 50-50 mixture of kerosene and 3-in-1 oil.


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making
your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are
also a lot of new Sky City pictures.
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From owner-glass Fri Oct 22 15:55:35 1999
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From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: mschut <mschut@nbnet.nb.ca>
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Subject: Re: Hobby Came
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:22:29 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct22.132229.0>
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mschut wrote:
> 
> This may be a really dumb question, but I once was told the only dumb
> question is the one that isn't asked.
> 
> I just started working with hobby came for jewelry boxes, and the finish on
> it is a very dull grey.  How do I get it to be the same shiny silver as the
> 63/37 solder?  Is this done by tinning it?
> Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & Devin Schut
> Moncton, New Brunswick
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for starters, came isn't meant for boxes.

came is grey, the only way to make it shiny silver is to plate it with
either nickel or silver. you can use brass came for a box (still not a
real looker), but that can be polished afterwards. although there would
be silver corners.


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making
your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are
also a lot of new Sky City pictures.
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From owner-glass Fri Oct 22 16:03:10 1999
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Subject: Re: Cutting oil formula?
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:19:27 -0400
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I use a combination of 3& 1 and kerosene...I've had the jar of it for so
long, I don't remember the proportions.  Since the level is finally getting
low, I'm interested in hearing about others home brews as well.
Dee


At 07:34 AM 10/22/99 -0400, Joseph Augusta wrote:
>Anyone have a no-fail home formula for cutting oil?
>Joseph

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From owner-glass Fri Oct 22 16:23:46 1999
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Subject: Re: Cutting oil formula?
Date: Fri Oct 22 14:44:41 1999
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> Anyone have a no-fail home formula for cutting oil?

Kerosene.  None better.  Spectrum supports the claim.

-G

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From owner-glass Fri Oct 22 16:44:16 1999
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From: Joseph Augusta <jaugusta@capecod.net>
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Subject: Oingo's glass links
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:17:15 -0400
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Have you seen oingo's list of glass links?  Take a look:

http://www.oingo.com/topic/16/16370.html

Best wishes,
Joseph

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From owner-glass Fri Oct 22 18:03:06 1999
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>> In the background is the motion proposed by Dicks and adopted by the
House on October 4, directing the House conferees to accept the additional
$5 million for the NEA passed in the Senate bill.<<

I called but the president was busy. They would not even tell me what he was
doing. I will try again later.

Something most people do not understand is the fact that it is necessary to
make cuts in other budget areas when trying to increase one area in a
ceiling controlled budget.

In this case, an increase of $5,000.000.00 is requested for the arts. Now I
happen to know that the follow on to the Submarine Seawolf program is the
NSSN program which is to be followed by the Whale class of submarines. These
submarines as presently drafted are 365 feet long and will cost
$365,000,000.00 each. By simply redrawing only one of these submarines to
360 feet there will be a savings of $5,000,000.00 which can easily be sent
to NEA.

Let me know if you need any more help,

Bob in SOCAL (former submariner)



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From owner-glass Fri Oct 22 21:35:33 1999
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Subject: RE: Soldering Irons
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 99 09:14:33 
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Peggy

I've gone thru lots (about 10 before I quit buying them) of SP80's

I now have (at a friend's insistance) a Weller 100 watt temptrol and it's holding up fine. 
4th month and counting

so, I guess MY jury's still out

Candy

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From owner-glass Fri Oct 22 21:49:45 1999
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From: Tina Booth <TMacnicol@xtra.co.nz>
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Subject: Re: Cutting oil formula?
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 17:16:27 +1300
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By cutting oil do you mean what we put into the glass cutter?

--
     -Tina Booth-
-Knowledge is true opinion-
       -Plato-


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From owner-glass Fri Oct 22 22:14:03 1999
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From: Tina Booth <TMacnicol@xtra.co.nz>
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Subject: Re:question on kitchen cabinets
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 17:20:50 +1300
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I have never seen a panel made with brass came, even though it is listed in my
local suppliers catalog! I do note the equipment needed to work with it seems
expensive. -benders etc.  I have only ever used lead.  What benefits are there
to using anything other than lead and in what circumstances would I use it?
--
     -Tina Booth-
-Knowledge is true opinion-
       -Plato-


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From owner-glass Sat Oct 23 01:22:20 1999
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Sorry and thanks.
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 23 01:50:31 1999
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Dear Future Associate,

You Can Work At Home & Set Your Own Hours.  Start earning Big 
Money in a short time
       
                                    NO Newspaper Advertising!

Your job will be to stuff and mail envelopes for our company. You 
will receive $.25 for each and every envelope you stuff and mail 
out.

Just follow our simple instructions and you will be making money 
as easy as
1… 2… 3

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$50.00. Stuff and mail 1000 and you will receive $250.00. Stuff 
and mail 2000 and you will receive $500.00 and more 

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Our Company's Home Mailing Program is designed for people with 
little or no experience and provides simple, step by step 
instructions.  

There is no prior experience or special skills necessary on your 
part, Just stuffing envelopes.

We need the help of honest and reliable home workers like you.  
Because we are overloaded with work and have more than our staff 
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Our system of stuffing and mailing envelopes is very simple and 
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There are no quotas to meet, and there no contracts to sign. You 
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Here is what you will receive when you get your first Package.  
Inside you will find 100 envelopes, 100 labels and 100 sales 
letters ready to stuff and mail

As soon as you are done with stuffing and mailing these first 
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Our sales literature which you will be stuffing and mailing will 
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information outlining our highly informative manuals that we are
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Plus you will get your own special code number, so that we will 
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We are giving you this free bonus because we want you to be 
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business with you for a long time.

Benefits Of This Job:

1. You do not have to quit your present job, to earn more money 
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2. You can make between $2,500 to $4,500 a month depending on the 
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3. This is a great opportunity for the students, mothers, 
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To secure your position and to show us that you are serious about 
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fee of $35.00.
This fee covers the cost of your initial start up package,  which 
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Money Back Guarantee!

We guarantee that as soon as you stuff and mail your first 300 
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Many of you wonder why it is necessary to pay a deposit to get a 
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to work from home.  

*  If 3.000 people told us they wanted to start working from home 
and we sent out 3.000 packages free to every one.  And then half 
of the people decided not to work, this would be a potential loss 
of more than $60,000 in supply's and shipping that we have sent 
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To Get Started Today Please Enclose Your Registration Fee of $35
Check Or Money Order and fill out the application below and 
mail to:

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For all orders, please allow seven (7) days for delivery and up 
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 23 04:45:18 1999
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From: Joseph Augusta <jaugusta@capecod.net>
To: Tina Booth <TMacnicol@xtra.co.nz>
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Subject: Re: Cutting oil formula?
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 07:13:58 -0400
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Tina Booth wrote:

> By cutting oil do you mean what we put into the glass cutter?
>

Yes.  Kerosene seems to be favorite.

Best wishes,
Joseph

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From owner-glass Sat Oct 23 05:50:02 1999
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Subject: Re: Soldering Irons
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 08:01:17 EDT
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The W100 Soldering iron i have is at least eight years old.  probably older.  
I also have a couple of Haakos.  I like them too, but my workhorse is the 
weller .  I never take it off the table.
Anne
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 23 08:21:44 1999
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Subject: Re: question on kitchen cabinets
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 07:28:57 -0700
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Tina Booth wrote:

> I have never seen a panel made with brass came, even though it is listed in my
> local suppliers catalog! I do note the equipment needed to work with it seems
> expensive. -benders etc.  I have only ever used lead.  What benefits are there
> to using anything other than lead and in what circumstances would I use it?

There is a company here in the USA (I'll look for the name later, they're online I
do believe, they're in Los Angeles, Cal area as I recall), who are making LOTS of
doors, solid good quality doors, many of which have stained and/or beveled glass
insets that are made with brass (I think).  This company's doors are starting to
be carried by every reasonable contractor supplier in the USA.  I've seen them
everywhere from Home Depot to high-priced places.  I know you live in NZ, but you
might want to look in similar places for an examples.  I saw a couple and the
glass work was good quality.

There is a lot of home renovation going on right around our house.  Location wise
this is a primo area for the Silicon Valley, but a lot of the older houses (50 to
75 years old) here are ... shall we say ... less than fabulous.  So, they're
tearing down the old houses (no great loss, trust me on that) and putting up new
ones.  Now, since the old houses go for $325,000 USD to $450,000 USD ... this is
kind of expensive with the 'new homes' going for $800,000 USD to $1,500,000 USD
for 2,500 to 3,500 sq ft homes.

A lot of these people, as in almost all of them, are putting in doors and/or
windows and/or entryways etc with beveled glass or stained glass; most are using
beveled glass sometimes with glue chip ... its the "style of the 90's" around
here.  All prefab stuff ... but still they're doing it.  All the work is going
through the "architects" and the contractors.

Brass is much stiffer and more long lasting than lead but harder to work with.

Gotta go ..... later .... Bob

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From owner-glass Sat Oct 23 09:21:31 1999
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Hobby Came
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 11:37:12 -0400
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Message text written by mschut
>How do I get it to be the same shiny silver as the
63/37 solder?  Is this done by tinning it?<

Or getting it electroplated shiney nickel or shiney chrome.
Lead came, no matter what size it is, will never be shiney.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
North Wales, PA U.S.A.
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 23 09:41:16 1999
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Subject: Re:question on kitchen cabinets
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 11:37:17 -0400
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Message text written by Tina Booth
>I have never seen a panel made with brass came, even though it is listed=

in my
local suppliers catalog! I do note the equipment needed to work with it
seems
expensive. -benders etc.  I have only ever used lead.  What benefits are
there
to using anything other than lead and in what circumstances would I use
it?<

I make about 2 kitchen cabinet panels per day.  We offer them in
traditional lead,
in brass came, in heart-of-brass came (a lead came with its heart
containing a brass
piece to give the lead more rigidity), and with or without electroplating=

(nickel, brass,
copper, and chrome).  Brass came (except for the 1/8" came) is actually
brass-capped
lead.  It is much stiffer than lead, but can be bent by hand into gentle
curves.  But it does
not take very tight curves well, as the brass will buckel.

We combine lead & brass came sometimes due to the aforementioned problem.=

Right now we just completed a panel with a center flower theme which had =
a
small
circle & some small tight curves which the brass came could not accomodat=
e.
 So
we made the center flower using thin lead came, and finished the rest in
brass came.
The whole thing is being sent off to the electroplater for a complete
bright brass
finish.  I don't have the expensive came benders.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
North Wales, PA U.S.A.
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 23 09:59:28 1999
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X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Leaving
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 08:44:08 PDT
Message-ID: <m11f3Kz-0000GlC@daver.bungi.com>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all,

I will be leaving Sunday evening to Maui.  I will not return until Thursday
night.  I will not be reading my mail so any subscription changes will have
to wait till I return.  
Aloha


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 23 11:02:36 1999
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X-Path: sympatico.ca!tandg.higson
From: Anthony Higson <tandg.higson@sympatico.ca>
To: Candy Thurman <candy@ghostman.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Soldering Irons
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 12:58:45 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Oct23.75845.0>
References: <<199910230321.VAA14256@mantis.privatei.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi
I've used a Weller 100 watt for 4 years and I like it . I use the 80 watts when I teach a
class,mainly because I couldn't afford more 100 watt irons
Gillian

Candy Thurman wrote:

> Peggy
>
> I've gone thru lots (about 10 before I quit buying them) of SP80's
>
> I now have (at a friend's insistance) a Weller 100 watt temptrol and it's holding up fine.
> 4th month and counting
>
> so, I guess MY jury's still out
>
> Candy
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Sat Oct 23 11:33:29 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu
From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Joseph Augusta" <jaugusta@capecod.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Cutting oil formula?
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 10:22:27 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct23.32227.0>
Precedence: bulk

>>> By cutting oil do you mean what we put into the glass cutter?
>

Yes.  Kerosene seems to be favorite.

Best wishes,
Joseph<<

Not with me! Kero is much to thin for an oil feed cutter and is apt to make
a smelly mess. The 50/50 kero and 3 in 1 oil has a better viscosity but why
not buy it ready made. A bottle costs $1.40 retail here and lasts for more
than a year.

If you must use kero then do yourself a favor and buy a bottle of
scented/unscented lamp oil. It is highly refined kero and does not have much
of the kero smell.

Bob in SOCAL

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From owner-glass Sat Oct 23 12:00:47 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Tina Booth <TMacnicol@xtra.co.nz>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Cutting oil formula?
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 13:29:32 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct23.92932.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by Tina Booth
>By cutting oil do you mean what we put into the glass cutter?<

Now there's a statement of the times!  Haha....
Some people still put their oil in a jar and dab
their cutter into it.!!

Best,

Dani Greer
----
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 23 12:13:16 1999
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X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods
From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: black of glass painted black
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 10:34:26 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct23.33426.0>
References: <<1999Oct18.33758.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I know this is a little late, but I thought I should pass on some more
information about paint strippers.  I also know I sometimes sound like a
broken record in regards to material safety.  Because I started out working
in wood rather than glass, I have probably had a lot more exposure to this
stuff than many of you pure glass types.  But I also know that because of my
past carelessness with many of these compounds I have developed
sensitivities and other problems which make it very hard for me to continue
in woodworking. And who knows how many more health problems will show up
because I was stupid about this in the past.

Methylene chloride is a suspected carcinogen and methylethylketone is a
confirmed carcinogen.  They also evaporate quickly, causing a rapid buildup
of vapors.  The vapors rapidly affect the body's supply of oxygen.  People
with heart or lung problems should never use methylene chloride strippers
under any circumstances.  Even the healthiest people should only use them
with excellent ventilation including a good supply of fresh air from outside
the stripping area.  Standard cartridge-style respirators are NOT affective
against methylene chloride.

A safer alternative which is almost as rapid acting and universal as
methylene chloride is N-methyl pyrrolidone (NMP).  The main problem with NMP
based strippers is that NMP is very expensive to manufacture.  NMP based
strippers generally cost two to three times as much as methylene chloride
strippers.

It is also sometimes not very clear which strippers are NMP based because of
some of the unusual marketing strategies some of these companies have
developed to overcome the higher price.  Almost all of the "citrus scent"
(d-limonene) strippers actually have NMP as the main active stripping agent.
The "Citristrip" family of products are actually NMP based strippers.

Note that there is no such thing as a completely safe finish stripper.
Caution and proper ventilation must still be used with NMP based strippers.
The only exception to this might be 3M's dibasic ester (DBE) based "Safest
Stripper".  But in my experience the DBE based strippers do not work very
well with paint either.

The October 1999 issue of "Fine Woodworking" magazine (Taunton Press) has an
excellent article on the pros and cons of the various types of finish
strippers available.  Although this article is targeted at woodworking, much
of it would still apply to the paint on the back of the glass being talked
about.

----- Original Message -----
From: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
To: <Witchdoc3@aol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: black of glass painted black


<snip>
> methylene chloride and maybe a little methylethylketone mixed with a bit
of low
> MW polystrene should do the trick.
<snip>



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From owner-glass Sat Oct 23 12:38:17 1999
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X-Path: warner-criv.com!charles
From: "Charles Warner" <charles@warner-criv.com>
To: "Tina Booth" <TMacnicol@xtra.co.nz>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: question on kitchen cabinets
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 14:28:11 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct23.102811.0>
References: <<1999Oct24.62050.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Tina:

Brass and Zinc are frequently used for panels which are 
primarily made of beveled glass, or special uses where
reinforcement is necessary (such as door panels) and
rebar would not be appropriate.

For example:
One of my uses of zinc was in a garden window with an 
open-work glass trellis built into it.  The zinc framed 
each of the open areas providing strength without bringing 
special attention to itself since the zinc blended into 
the lead came used in the rest of the window.  In the 
finished window the zinc and the lead came were the same 
size/color and style.  Lead came by itself did not have 
the necessary strength, and rebar would have been 
overpowering in this application.

Brass is sometimes used just to add brass color to a 
project.

The only special tool that is necessary for general use
of brass and zinc is a hacksaw.  Love to sell you those 
other special tools though...

Charles Warner
Warner-Crivellaro
http://www.warner-criv.com/

>I have never seen a panel made with brass came, even though it
>is listed in my local suppliers catalog! I do note the equipment 
>needed to work with it seems expensive. -benders etc.  I have 
>only ever used lead.  What benefits are there to using 
>anything other than lead and in what circumstances would I use it?

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From owner-glass Sat Oct 23 13:16:10 1999
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From: Tina Booth <TMacnicol@xtra.co.nz>
To: Glass List <glass@bungi.com.>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Cutting oil formula?
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 08:15:40 +1300
Message-ID: <1999Oct24.211540.0>
References: <<199910231329_MC2-8A2A-3E4A@compuserve.com>>
Precedence: bulk

So it seems that kero is used in the cutters either with or without 3 in
1 oil.  I have never been told about kero and have always added just 3
in 1.  What is the benifit of adding kerosene?


Dani Greer wrote:

> Message text written by Tina Booth
> >By cutting oil do you mean what we put into the glass cutter?<
>
> Now there's a statement of the times!  Haha....
> Some people still put their oil in a jar and dab
> their cutter into it.!!
>
> Best,
>
> Dani Greer

--
     -Tina Booth-
-Knowledge is true opinion-
       -Plato-


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From owner-glass Sat Oct 23 13:37:28 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu
From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Debbie Taylor" <kleeman@one.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: NEA Funding
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 12:25:47 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct23.52547.0>
Precedence: bulk

>>HUH?
>>debbie jo taylor

OK, what should be cut to provide more funding for the NEA?

And while you are at it consider that other programs want more money and are
likely to look at NEA funding as a source.

Just screaming for more money does not cut it. It is also necessary to
justify what has already been provided and show where more funding will
produce even better results. After all, public funding entails public
review. I do not believe the posters of the original message understand
this.

Bob in SOCAL



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From owner-glass Sat Oct 23 14:21:05 1999
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From: Tina Booth <TMacnicol@xtra.co.nz>
To: Glass List <glass@bungi.com.>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Archives
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 09:01:19 +1300
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Are the new and improved archives ready yet? How are the going????? When
can I dive in to the new bungi knowlege pit instead of asking all these
questions?

--
     -Tina Booth-
-Knowledge is true opinion-
       -Plato-


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From owner-glass Sat Oct 23 15:22:28 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: Tina Booth <TMacnicol@xtra.co.nz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Cutting oil formula?
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 16:34:35 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct23.123435.0>
References: <<1999Oct24.211540.0>>
Organization: Mike's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

Tina Booth wrote:
> 
> So it seems that kero is used in the cutters either with or without 3 in
> 1 oil.  I have never been told about kero and have always added just 3
> in 1.  What is the benifit of adding kerosene?
> 
> Dani Greer wrote:
> 
> > Message text written by Tina Booth
> > >By cutting oil do you mean what we put into the glass cutter?<
> >
> > Now there's a statement of the times!  Haha....
> > Some people still put their oil in a jar and dab
> > their cutter into it.!!
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Dani Greer
> 
> --
>      -Tina Booth-
> -Knowledge is true opinion-
>        -Plato-
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i think it mainly thins it out, and helps cut the oil, making it easier
to remove off the glass. 3-in-1 may not wick into the cutter properly. 


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making
your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are
also a lot of new Sky City pictures.
----
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 23 15:40:41 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Tina Booth <TMacnicol@xtra.co.nz>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re:question on kitchen cabinets
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 17:32:39 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct23.133239.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by Tina Booth
>I have never seen a panel made with brass came,<

In America, there sold by the thousands as pre-fab
entryways (sandwiched in insulated units) at mainstream
hardware conglomerates like Home Depot.

Best,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 23 16:04:55 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Tina Booth <TMacnicol@xtra.co.nz>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Cutting oil formula?
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 17:32:35 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct23.133235.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by Tina Booth
>By cutting oil do you mean what we put into the glass cutter?<

Now there's a statement of the times!  Haha....
Some people still put their oil in a jar and dab
their cutter into it.!!

Best,

Dani Greer
----
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 23 16:25:43 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: question on kitchen cabinets
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 17:32:47 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct23.133247.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by rrk
>I saw a couple and the
glass work was good quality.
<

I agree.  For the price, you can't beat
it.  I wouldn't even try to compete.  My
only complaint is that the pieces are
sandwiched which, of course, visually =

diminishes the beauty of the bevels and
design work.  But, it's pretty nice for =

mainstream and a heck of a lot better =

than SGO!!

Best,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 23 18:49:38 1999
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: cutter oil
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 18:30:43 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19991023183043.007f01f0@pop.racsa.co.cr>
Precedence: bulk

Before someone gave me a bottle of the "real" stuff, I was using with
equally good results, Mennen's baby oil, and a lot less toxic, on skin and
nose it is too!  meg
=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=
=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=
=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=
=BA
=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA
RICHARD AND MEG LAVAL
Apdo 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA

PHONE 645-5052 or 645-5419
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 23 20:43:51 1999
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Candy Thurman <candy@ghostman.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: RE: Soldering Irons
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 19:32:40 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1999Oct23.123240.0>
References: <<199910230321.VAA14256@mantis.privatei.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Thanks Candy.  You have gone through about 10 SP80's?  Over what period of
time.  I have really thought long and hard about changing from SP80 for
student use because I do use the rheostat to teach them that different
soldering requires different temperatures.  What I am finding is that the
SP80 with rheostat is about the same as W100 and I am still in a quandry
about which one is more feasible.  Like you said, my jury is still out.
Thanks for your reply, Peggy.

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From owner-glass Sat Oct 23 21:03:35 1999
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X-Path: netaxs.com!maruca
From: maruca@netaxs.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Cutting oil formula?
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 23:08:35 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1999Oct23.19835.0>
References: <<1999Oct23.133235.0>>
Precedence: bulk



On Sat, 23 Oct 1999, Dani Greer wrote:

> Message text written by Tina Booth
> >By cutting oil do you mean what we put into the glass cutter?<
> 
> Now there's a statement of the times!  Haha....
> Some people still put their oil in a jar and dab
> their cutter into it.!!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Dani Greer


If you are taking a poll, I'm in the dabbing group.

Mary


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From owner-glass Sat Oct 23 22:31:47 1999
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From: "Candy Thurman" <candy@ghostman.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Need large cones for kiln
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 99 10:32:14 
Message-ID: <199910240439.WAA09354@mantis.privatei.com>
Precedence: bulk

Hi,

I recently bought an old but well taken care of  X14J kiln.. and Denver doesn't have in 
stock the large 019, 020, 022 cones I need.

Anyone out there help me?

Candy

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From owner-glass Sun Oct 24 04:45:59 1999
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X-Path: clientes.euskaltel.es!elere
From: "Elena Rodríguez" <elere@clientes.euskaltel.es>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re:Weller Soldering Irons
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 12:51:05 +0200
Message-ID: <1999Oct24.14515.0>
References: <<1999Oct23.123240.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hello everyone
I am now using my 2nd W100 in 5 years, which I use a lot  and I am happy with.
I thought it would not be off the topic mentioning one thing I find about
them,-and the reason why I broke my first one-, and that is that, since they
have no flexible cable-cover where the handle ends, after a while the cables
break  because of all the moving and twisting when soldering; you can't see
it, so to find out where they broke you have to peel the outer cable after
dismantling the iron. There are some very delicate parts inside it and I must
have broken one when putting it together or taking it apart; nevertheless I
managed to mend it 2 or 3 times before I blew it. I am curious to know, why
did your Wellers stop working?
 Best regards
Elena in Spain

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Peggy W. Johnsen escribió:

> Thanks Candy.  You have gone through about 10 SP80's?  Over what period of
> time.  I have really thought long and hard about changing from SP80 for
> student use because I do use the rheostat to teach them that different
> soldering requires different temperatures.  What I am finding is that the
> SP80 with rheostat is about the same as W100 and I am still in a quandry
> about which one is more feasible.  Like you said, my jury is still out.
> Thanks for your reply, Peggy.
>
> ----
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From owner-glass Sun Oct 24 06:58:51 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Expensive came benders, was Re: question on kitchen cabinets
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 09:25:20 EDT
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In a message dated 10/23/99 12:42:23 PM, Ensembles@compuserve.com writes:

>I don't have the expensive came benders.

I guess that makes me the Inexpensive Came Bender (sorry, couldn't resist <g>)

But seriously, even this hardcore Gadget Freak wonders if those came benders 
are really worth it........ any of you big-time lead folks out there have 
them? How often do you use them, and under what circumstances?


Sparks
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From owner-glass Sun Oct 24 07:59:56 1999
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From: vwrona1@airmail.net
To: mschut@nbnet.nb.ca (mschut),
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Hobby Came
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 09:15:52 -0500
Message-ID: <mT/11fOWE-000BzrT@mail.airmail.net>
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If you want to use a bright came in your pieces try Symphony Ultra Came by Fry 
Metals, which is lead free and very bright and shiny.  I have used the U channel for 3D 
angels and nativities (last year's Christmas presents) and I understand that they also 
have an H channel so you can use this in a panel like lead came.  It is not as wide as 
lead and so your glass cuts may have to be a little more precise.  Also, it melts at a 
lower temperature so you will need a temperature controller on your soldering iron (I 
set mine at about 50% or 55% with a Weller 100 iron).  It is a little trickier than lead 
came but I feel well worth it!  I do not know how the strength of this came compares to 
lead, but it has held up great on the pieces I have used this on.

I orderered this came from Glass Crafters (it comes on spools of 10 lbs, so it is easier 
to store than lead).  They sell the came by the foot if you don't want the whole spool.  

Hope this helps!
Vicki Wrona

On 22 Oct 99, at 11:07, mschut wrote:

This may be a really dumb question, but I once was told the only dumb
question is the one that isn't asked.

I just started working with hobby came for jewelry boxes, and the finish on
it is a very dull grey.  How do I get it to be the same shiny silver as the
63/37 solder?  Is this done by tinning it?
Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & Devin Schut
Moncton, New Brunswick
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From owner-glass Sun Oct 24 08:29:09 1999
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From: AbbieN2Glass@aol.com
To: Witchdoc3@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Expensive came benders, was Re: question on kitchen cabinets
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 10:40:49 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Oct24.144049.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Sparks, My husband said if I ever get into using came that he would lend 
me one of his cleats from the sailboat....it is used to keep lines 
taught...has teeth???? I guess you could call them...gonna try it one day...I 
don't think they cost very much and they could be mounted on a work bench 
real easy....Can be found at most marine stores and in marine 
catalogs.....take care, Abbie in Va
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From owner-glass Sun Oct 24 09:14:30 1999
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From: Hilary <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: Witchdoc3@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Expensive came benders, was Re: question on kitchen cabinets
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:14:21 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct24.71421.0>
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Precedence: bulk

The only time I ever used a came bender was with zinc. I needed an 18"
circle. It worked beautifully. I can't imagine needing it for lead.

Hilary


> But seriously, even this hardcore Gadget Freak wonders if those came benders
> are really worth it........ any of you big-time lead folks out there have
> them? How often do you use them, and under what circumstances?
----
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From owner-glass Sun Oct 24 10:56:21 1999
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X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig
From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: cutter lubricants
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 12:36:58 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct24.83658.0>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0087_01BF1E1C.76AE1160
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Here's a copy of one of several tech sheets we've done over the years- =
this one addresses the debate over cutter lubricants...

Dad said you really never learn to swear until you learn to drive. =
That=92s not true- it=92s when glass cutting. with the wrong lubricant. =
Yes folks, it=92s true. The type and the quality of lubrication is =
critical to successful glass cutting.

Glass is a strange material- it=92s not a solid, nor a liquid, but a =
vitreous solution- something exhibiting traits of both and none of =
either- never mind- read FigHelper # 7 for an explanation, we have to =
move on. The only thing you need to concern yourself with for the =
purpose of this discussion here is that the outside skin of glass is in =
a state of =91tension=92 (sort of like Ed=92s home=85), holding the =
middle in =91compression=92. When making a score with your glass cutter, =
the wheel only penetrates the surface of the glass by a mere 1/1000th on =
an inch (less than that in centimeters=85helpful Ed), into the area of =
tension, but, at the same time it drives a crack well into the deeper =
compression layer. Using a lubricant will minimize excess surface =
fractures as your wheel rolls along the glass. A lubricant literally =
=91oils=92 the score line reducing surface damage, ands as a bonus it =
reduces the tendency of the score to heal itself (Earnest Ainsley=92s =
job=85Mikey). The lubricant best suited to this job? Kerosene!=20

Now, while you might be a better person for understanding the principle =
behind making a score, you=92re not really any closer to finding out why =
we want you to use kerosene. After all, why put oil (which kerosene is) =
on glass that=92s already clean? This means we=92ll have to clean the =
glass before copperfoiling people whine. Oh, the horror. Hey, if we =
analyze the purpose of a lubricant we could theoretically use any liquid =
(don=92t go there Ed). After all, it=92s the presence of a liquid =
that=92s important, not the type. Sounds kind of like Deja Moo- the =
feeling that you=92ve heard this bull before.

But why kerosene.? Let me illustrate the ways;

1) Well, most importantly it is a liquid.

2) It "facilitates the smoothest penetration of the glass surface, =
keeping microscopic chipping to a minimum" according to the experts.

3) It=92s cheap and widely available. At Fantasy In Glass it even comes =
in a cute little noxema blue glass bottle with enclosed dropper

4) Its=92 oil base prevents cutters from corrosion unlike many of the =
synthetic cutter lubricants that make unscrupulous retailers lots of =
money

5) It evaporates almost totally, leaving little residue

Let=92s (...)...

Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2 =
(Tel:416-252-6868)
Canada's first and yes, still its only officially sanctioned stained =
glass supplier.



------=_NextPart_000_0087_01BF1E1C.76AE1160
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3401" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>
<P><FONT size=3D3>Here's a copy of one of several tech sheets we've done =
over the=20
years- this one addresses the debate over cutter =
lubricants...</FONT></P>
<P>Dad said you really never learn to swear until you learn to drive. =
That=92s not=20
true- it=92s when glass cutting. with the wrong lubricant. Yes folks, =
it=92s true.=20
The type and the quality of lubrication is critical to successful glass=20
cutting.</P>
<P>Glass is a strange material- it=92s not a solid, nor a liquid, but a =
vitreous=20
solution- something exhibiting traits of both and none of either- never =
mind-=20
read FigHelper # 7 for an explanation, we have to move on. The only =
thing you=20
need to concern yourself with for the purpose of this discussion here is =
that=20
the outside skin of glass is in a state of =91tension=92 (sort of like =
Ed=92s home=85),=20
holding the middle in =91compression=92. When making a score with your =
glass cutter,=20
the wheel only penetrates the surface of the glass by a mere =
1/1000</FONT><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D1>th</FONT><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
size=3D2> on an=20
inch (less than that in centimeters=85helpful Ed), into the area of =
tension, but,=20
at the same time it drives a crack well into the deeper compression =
layer. Using=20
a lubricant will minimize excess surface fractures as your wheel rolls =
along the=20
glass. A lubricant literally =91oils=92 the score line reducing surface =
damage, ands=20
as a bonus it reduces the tendency of the score to heal itself (Earnest=20
Ainsley=92s job=85Mikey). The lubricant best suited to this job? =
Kerosene! </P>
<P>Now, while you might be a better person for understanding the =
principle=20
behind making a score, you=92re not really any closer to finding out why =
we want=20
you to use kerosene. After all, why put oil (which kerosene is) on glass =
that=92s=20
already clean? This means we=92ll have to clean the glass before =
copperfoiling=20
people whine. Oh, the horror. Hey, if we analyze the purpose of a =
lubricant we=20
could theoretically use any liquid (don=92t go there Ed). After all, =
it=92s the=20
presence of a liquid that=92s important, not the type. Sounds kind of =
like Deja=20
Moo- the feeling that you=92ve heard this bull before.</P>
<P>But why kerosene.? Let me illustrate the ways;</P>
<P>1) Well, most importantly it is a liquid.</P>
<P>2) It "facilitates the smoothest penetration of the glass surface, =
keeping=20
microscopic chipping to a minimum" according to the experts.</P>
<P>3) It=92s cheap and widely available. At Fantasy In Glass it even =
comes in a=20
cute little noxema blue glass bottle with enclosed dropper</P>
<P>4) Its=92 oil base prevents cutters from corrosion unlike many of the =
synthetic=20
cutter lubricants that make unscrupulous retailers lots of money</P>
<P>5) It evaporates almost totally, leaving little residue</P>
<P>Let=92s (...)...</P>
<P></FONT><FONT size=3D3>Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, =
Canada, M8Y=20
1L2 (Tel:416-252-6868)<BR>Canada's first and yes, still its only =
officially=20
sanctioned stained glass supplier.<BR></P></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0087_01BF1E1C.76AE1160--

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From owner-glass Sun Oct 24 15:09:03 1999
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X-Path: fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us!gonzalj
From: Jim Gonzalez <gonzalj@freenet.tlh.fl.us>
To: Tina Booth <TMacnicol@xtra.co.nz>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Archives
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:49:44 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1999Oct24.134944.0>
References: <<1999Oct24.22119.0>>
Precedence: bulk

On Sun, 24 Oct 1999, Tina Booth wrote:
> Are the new and improved archives ready yet? How are the going????? When
> can I dive in to the new bungi knowlege pit instead of asking all these
> questions?
> 
Tina & all of Bungi,

The work of streamlining the Bungi archives is well under way,  So far 22
months worth of emails have been stripped and indexed with keywords.
About 30 more months still need to be done.  The volunteers have been
working at a feverish pace to complete this task.  When we have completed
the process of editing the files and adding keywords (so far about 150
keywords have been used) to each email we will combine all the emails of
the same subject together.  Some final editing will then be required to
clean up these subject files.

I don't expect the final product to be completed until some time during
the first quarter of 2000.

Jim

ps - If anyone still wants to volunteer, many hands make the task lighter
for all.

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From owner-glass Sun Oct 24 15:40:38 1999
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X-Path: netrax.net!rejones
From: Bob Jones <rejones@netrax.net>
To: AbbieN2Glass@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Expensive came benders, was Re: question on kitchen cabinets
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:54:02 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct24.13542.0>
References: <<1999Oct24.144049.0>>
Precedence: bulk

A lead vise from a SG store will be a lot cheaper than the cam cleats.  I have
replaced enough cam cleats to know!  The cam cleats will also crush the lead
beyond recognition.  The more you pull the tighter their grip.  And you must pull
backwards to get them to open again.

AbbieN2Glass@aol.com wrote:

> Hi Sparks, My husband said if I ever get into using came that he would lend
> me one of his cleats from the sailboat....it is used to keep lines
> taught...has teeth???? I guess you could call them...gonna try it one day...I
> don't think they cost very much and they could be mounted on a work bench
> real easy....Can be found at most marine stores and in marine
> catalogs.....take care, Abbie in Va
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Sun Oct 24 18:10:34 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu
From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Expensive came benders
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:19:43 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct24.101943.0>
Precedence: bulk

>>The only time I ever used a came bender was with zinc. I needed an 18"
circle. It worked beautifully. I can't imagine needing it for lead.

Hilary
<<

The only came bender I know of is the Cascade Came Bender. I have one and
Use it for zinc, brass and rebar bending. Due to the nature of the machine
it is best when used only to make circles and segments of circles. Trying to
make compound curves is at best trying.

I have made a large number of circular frames for stained glass from 1/2"
brass U-cap. Circles up to three feet in diameter are well supported by the
brass. Use of the came bender allows me to make a strong circular frame for
less than $5.00.

IMO, all commercial studios should have one and offer bending services to
crafters. I will bend a circular frame for free when the materials are
purchased here. Customers like that service.

Bob in SOCAL

Ps: I heat anneal brass came that must be bent for complex work in the
interior of w. Still far more of a chore than using lead but good results
are possible without the use of a came bender.

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From owner-glass Sun Oct 24 18:41:23 1999
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X-Path: erols.com!deethom
From: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: cutter lubricants
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 21:17:20 -0400
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19991024211717.009b2e08@pop.erols.com>
Precedence: bulk

>4) Its=92 oil base prevents cutters from corrosion unlike many of the =
>synthetic cutter lubricants that make unscrupulous retailers lots of =
>money

so true..I used one of those water based lubricants and ruined a pistol
grip some years ago...handle cracked and the head rusted.
DEE

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From owner-glass Sun Oct 24 21:45:31 1999
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From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: London visit
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 00:10:43 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct24.201043.0>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

Well, we DID London and I am destroyed, but it was great fun.  We did
get to James Hetley, the glass supply place in London, but not to Lead
and Light, which I regret.  The day we did Hetley we also did Greenwich
and that was miles and miles of walking.  We had gotten the weekly
transportation pass (trains, busses and tube) - a very good savings
since we had no car and went ALL over.  We took the underground to
Waterloo and then went east on the train to Greenwich.  There's a fair
hike to the station, passing a Hawksworth church were Tomas Tallis was
organist (in previous older church) and was buried.  Then hiked up a
long hill to the observatory, looked at all the beautiful astronomy and
navigation apparatus, went up to the dome, and back down.  Stood with
one foot on either side of the prime meridian.  Then down to the Queen's
house and naval college, and went flitted into the naval museum to see
the royal barges (Handel's Watermusic).  Then hiked long and hard to the
waterfront where the pedestrian tunnel under the Themes is.  It croses
to the Isle of Dogs (docklands - Canery Warf etc.).  The escalator
wasn't working on the down side, but fortunately it was on the up side
north of the river.  We then discovered that the Docklands Light Rail
wasn't working to the final stop and had to hike to get a bus to the
next stop.

We should have gotten off at Limehouse - a short walk to James Hetley,
but we took the next one cause on the map it certainly didn't seem to
matter.  It matters.  We walked a long way thru what would be considered
The Projects over here, but they were nowhere near as dreadful as ours -
nor as scary - tho it was a dumb thing to do.  We saw lots of women
completely shrouded in the muslim manner - not something you encounter
here too often (Baltimore Maryland).  My husband took a photo of me
standing next to the GlassHouse Fields street sign and unter the Hetley
sign - which is really the old glass company sign and Hetley put on top
of it.  Then around to the next street (SchoolHouse).  We walked right
by it.  The shop is not directly on the street.  You enter the
industrial driveway, with oodles of boxes of glass and other things
helter skelter, and the shop has no storefront to it at all - just a
door into a grubby industrial building.  So we went in and there is this
tiny display area and sales desk.  They had a St. Just display which was
about as sparten as you could imagine, and a glassed display case with
some mundane metal castings in it.  There was a display area in the
sales desk, but it simply had a few soldering irons and such.

They let me wander all through the glass area, though and they had a
wonderful selection of glass.  Lots of St. Just, and lots of
Sunderland.  MIND BLOWING beauty.  I bought a flashed red and flashed
blue small piece and a piece of pink Sunderland - each about 14" x 22":
£99!!!  Also bought the tallow candles for soldering lead.  They had an
excellent selection of Youghiagheny, Kokomo, Wismach, and Spectrum - a
really large supply of Spectrum.  I was amazed that they would have
taken a tiny hunk out of a huge sheet for me, or they would have let me
take almost all, leaving them with only a tiny hunk.  Here they won't do
that.  There were other hobbiests in there and a professional or two.
But what struck us was a total lack of display sense, of
commercialization, or advertising.  We hauled the wrapped glass back to
the hotel and put it in the box I'd brought the panel for the wedding
in.  It arrived here safely and is downstairs right now wating for

The only other glass thing we did was a friend and I went to the V&A
(Victoria and Albert Museum) and found one of the glass halls (211?) and
spent hours looking.  Full windows are displayed on the walls back lit,
of course.  And then fragments of really old stuff, are displayed in
slanted desks (glass topped) so you can really see them - see how the
burshwork was accomplished.  There were two small hinks from Nonesuch.
I didn't know anything survived Nonesuch's.  One was a glorious Tudor
rose and crown - dark red flashed glass with dark blue background and
silver-gold on a more modern looking crown for the Tudor arms.  But bits
from Chartre, St. Dennis, St. Chappelle, etc.  Exciting to see right
close up like that.

And now a question for you.  A lot of the pubs over there have very
impressive etched glass windows.  Here in the states, that is often
accomplished by beveling and two stage carving or multi-stage deep
carving by sandblasting.  Now I believe I was told that heating
something deeped carved would melt the glass enough to melt and become
clear again, and I suppose that could have been done, but it looked more
like the clear incised parts had been achieved with the help of an
engraving wheel.  I didn't see much with multi stage deep carving nor
anthing like the intricate bevel clusters used here, but did see a lot
of two stage blasting.  So, does anyone know?

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Sun Oct 24 21:58:28 1999
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From: "Byron Wells" <byronw@fastlane.net>
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Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Expensive came benders, was Re: question on kitchen cabinets
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 22:08:31 -0500
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From owner-glass Sun Oct 24 23:20:23 1999
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
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Subject: NG I didnt mean to leave the list
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 00:32:31 -0500
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Only after a couple of people emailed me asking me why I was leaving the
list, and My bud Bob, asked if I was getting mail....did I realise my
last email was mistaken as a request to be taken off list! :o(

I was testing my new folder's set up.  

Hope Im back now..this is another test, I just wanted to be real clear
this time~! :o)

Tulsa Suzanne
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From owner-glass Sun Oct 24 23:34:32 1999
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From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Cecily and Ralph Wood" <cecnralph@home.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: London visit
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 22:28:37 -0700
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>>And now a question for you.  A lot of the pubs over there have very
impressive etched glass windows.  Here in the states, that is often
accomplished by beveling and two stage carving or multi-stage deep
carving by sandblasting.  Now I believe I was told that heating
something deeped carved would melt the glass enough to melt and become
clear again, and I suppose that could have been done, but it looked more
like the clear incised parts had been achieved with the help of an
engraving wheel.  <<

There is a machine for engraving glass that works like a milling machine.
With the proper bit it bevels the glass. It is mostly used for straight line
work and letters but could be used to engrave a beveled bevel pattern in the
middle of a sheet of glass.

Healing a sandblasted surface requires high heat which causes the side of
the glass laying on the kiln shelf to be marked. Coating the sandblasted
surface with a low melting suspension of glass can be used to overcome this
to a large degree.

You may also have seen glass that had been slumped over a mold that left the
pattern in the glass.

Bob in SOCAL

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From owner-glass Mon Oct 25 00:49:48 1999
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From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: NG Good post Joseph
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 01:49:59 -0500
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I just came across this, and really liked it.  Thanks Joseph. :o)
I think I should print it and put it on the fridge!
Bummed to learn Im not subcribed, at least until Glenna returns..

Suzanne in Tulsa

> Talk about defining yourself as an artist, craftsman, beginner etc. and
> working with stained glass as either an art or craft or hobby points to
> the deeper issue of knowing who you are as a distinct, entirely unique,
> individual and being comfortable with that discovery.
> 
> Individuals who are fortunate enough to have learned to savor who they
> are become the lucky ones--and succeed in whatever endeavor they
> choose--despite what anyone else may think!
> 
> This is where you want to be--all the rest follows.
> 
> Best wishes,
> Joseph
>
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From owner-glass Mon Oct 25 02:24:06 1999
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X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com, "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Soldering Irons
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:35:48 +0100
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Dear Peggy,

Still trying to catch up.............
I have had the Weller 75 / 80 irons now for almost 15 years in my 
teaching situation. I still have my first Weller that I bought 20 odd 
years ago and have never had any problems. None of them have 
rheostats, most of them have suffered student abuse (burnt through 
wires etc), all of them have had many new tips through the years 
(another student abuse). Every siongle one of them ( about 6) still 
work perfectly OK. I also have 2-3 Weller 100 W for student use. 
They are a bit heavier in weight than the smaller one and  some of 
my older students find them a bit too heavy.
Then I have my little Oryx iron, that I brought to USA to show off, 
which is a very lightweight one, but a beuty.

Stick with the Weller 80 for beginners, and you can't go wrong. It's 
a good beginner's iron, not too expensive (in USA!!).
Over here in UK, there is another soldering iron, manufactured by a 
British tool manufacturer (Draper), 100W, which is relatively small 
and light-weight. It also has the advantage that it is less than half 
the price in UK than the Weller irons (UK Sterling 12, as opposed 
to UK Sterling 26 - 30 for a Weller 75 / 80). 

Which leads me (sneakily) to welcome Alan who is not only a 
Bungi lurker, but also a new student of mine at Oaklands College 
in St.Albans in UK. Come out of lurkerdom Alan and let us all hear 
from you!! You might also like to investigate the Draper soldering 
iron. Gomms in St.Albans should either have it, or be able to order 
it for you..... Alan has been doing lamps in the past and is now 
having a go at working with lead.  No doubt, there will be a lot of 
my USA workshops survivors who can tell Alan just what a dragon I 
am...  ;->

Missing you all! .....And Peggy,  will get back to you and Wayne, 
once I've got my act together!

Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK


> 
> Help, Please.  I usually recommend the Weller SP80 for beginning students.
> Tonight I had a call from a student who said, "someone" said the SP80 was
> the worst soldering iron around and suggested she get a Hakko 455 or
> the Insta-Inland.  Except both cost about twice as much as the SP80, what
> are the pros and cons of the three soldering irons.  I would especially
> like to hear from those of you who use these irons.  Thanks you, Peggy
> 
> ----
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> 


----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Mon Oct 25 05:52:02 1999
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X-Path: erols.com!nadinesfolly
From: nadinesfolly@erols.com
To: Witchdoc3@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
Subject: re: Expensive came benders, was Re: question on kitchen cabinets
Date: 25 Oct 99 08:08:03 -0500
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Hi Sparks!

I have one, have had it for years. I use it
to bend zinc for borders on round or arched
panels.  Couldn't live without it.  How often 
I use it depends on what kind of work I'm doing.
I can only say that if you are doing curvy things,
you need it!

Nadine



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From owner-glass Mon Oct 25 06:21:29 1999
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: question and comment
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:38:00 -0400
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Message text written by INTERNET:balloch@netbridge.net
>How long does it take to set and where do I find it.  I want to try it
too!
Thanks, Shirley B

Christie A. Wood wrote:
> =

> Message text written by Shirley Balloch
> >Does anyone know of a good inexpensive glue that glues glass to glass.=
<
> =

> GE Silicon II clear.  Great!
> =


GE Silicon II clear can be purchased in tube form at just about any home
improvement center.  It sets up pretty well within 10 minutes, and fully
cures
within 24 hours.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles
North Wales, PA U.S.A.
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From owner-glass Mon Oct 25 07:23:43 1999
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Subject: Re: Expensive came benders, was Re: question on kitchen cabinets
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:24:29 EDT
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Thanks for the info...I doubt if I ever use one because I like using 
foil.....My husband was just trying to be helpful...Abbie in Va
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From owner-glass Mon Oct 25 10:21:59 1999
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Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: FW: Expensive came benders, was Re: question on kitchen cabinets
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:22:02 -0400
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actually, cleats don't have teeth. what he meant was a rope clutch, which
looks like the toothed end of a came stretcher. however, if you think glass
tools are expensive, try buying boating hardware. nothing is inexpensive.

regards,
charlie (first day back from mexico from a sailing trip)
phx, az

-----Original Message-----
From: AbbieN2Glass@aol.com [mailto:AbbieN2Glass@aol.com] 
Sent: Sunday, October 24, 1999 7:41 AM
To: Witchdoc3@aol.com; glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Expensive came benders, was Re: question on kitchen
cabinets


Hi Sparks, My husband said if I ever get into using came that he would lend 
me one of his cleats from the sailboat....it is used to keep lines 
taught...has teeth???? I guess you could call them...gonna try it one
day...I 
don't think they cost very much and they could be mounted on a work bench 
real easy....Can be found at most marine stores and in marine 
catalogs.....take care, Abbie in Va
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From owner-glass Mon Oct 25 13:23:50 1999
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From: bcnl@sprynet.com
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Subject: Re: Carol Swann
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:26:32 -0400
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Sorry Carol--Not the Cindy you're looking for... but since you asked-- my moves are just fine except for a few aches and pains here and there! Actually, I've been a lurker for quite some time and just here to absorb all the wonderful information you folks are so willing to share. It's funny to think,I feel as I almost know you all. You even get to know everyones different personalities just sitting here on the sidelines. My name is Cindy Davis from Texas. I say I am new to stain glass even though I've been at it for years. I get so side tracked with wanting to learn all I can from the internet,that time hasn't allowed me to do as many projects as I would like. But, you can be sure,I have all kinds of projects and ideas just waiting to come alive!! I learn so much from all of you, I figured I would spend some time learning from your mistakes and successes before I venture too deeply into the art. Thanks so much for allowing me to learn from you all. I only wish more pictures we!
!
re available of both projects and the people on the list. I enjoyed the e-tour pictures. For some reason?, I thought Elizabeth would look more like Mrs. Santa Claus!?She always comes across as a jolly person...and for a long time I thought Toby was her husband.---Back to the sidelines, listening and learning!--Cindy
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From owner-glass Mon Oct 25 13:53:08 1999
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From: Joseph Augusta <jaugusta@capecod.net>
To: glass <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Macho lead came?
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:48:53 -0400
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Thanks to everyone who responded to my question on cutting oil!  My next
question--pardon me for being a pest-- but I know neon and will answer
any questions on that medium--BUT, where can I get some some 7/8" U or H
lead came for the small dalles I'm making?  Dalles are hand-blown and
vary in thickness from 7/8"--1".  Is there such an animal in lead came?

Best wishes,
Joseph

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From owner-glass Mon Oct 25 14:56:18 1999
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Subject: Cindy/Elisabeth
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:02:39 CST 6CDT
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I thought Elizabeth would look more like Mrs. Santa Claus!?
She always comes across as a jolly person...

Funny, Cindy.  I had pictured the stereotypical statuesque blond 
Scandinavian.  Thankfully I'd seen a picture on her website before 
she arrived, so I didn't make a (complete) fool of myself when I met 
her in Allentown!

Kaye
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From owner-glass Mon Oct 25 16:26:26 1999
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
Subject: Etched London Pub Windows (was London visit)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:41:17 +0100
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References: <<1999Oct24.201043.0@?>>
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In message <1999Oct24.201043.0@?>, Cecily and Ralph Wood
<cecnralph@home.com> writes
...cut.....
>And now a question for you.  A lot of the pubs over there have very
>impressive etched glass windows.  Here in the states, that is often
>accomplished by beveling and two stage carving or multi-stage deep
>carving by sandblasting.  Now I believe I was told that heating
>something deeped carved would melt the glass enough to melt and become
>clear again, and I suppose that could have been done, but it looked more
>like the clear incised parts had been achieved with the help of an
>engraving wheel.  I didn't see much with multi stage deep carving nor
>anthing like the intricate bevel clusters used here, but did see a lot
>of two stage blasting.  So, does anyone know?
>
>--
Well now.  I don't *know*, because I haven't seen which windows you may
be talking about, but I can make some guesses.

A great number of pub windows were done until the 1960's using a
combination of brilliant cutting and other techniques.  Brilliant
cutting can be described by other people better than I can, I'm sure.
But it is a process where by the glass is suspended in balance and
applied to cutting wheels, followed by polishing wheels.  The most
accomplished people could provide great detail and even a number of
strong curves (difficult to do with the technique)

Sandblasting was not a popular technique over here until after the
second world war (although I have seen an illustration of a 1920's steam
driven sandblaster - no don't ask me how it worked).  Most etching of
glass was done with acids.  The general ground was done with white acid
or by grinding.  Strong acids were used to provide a cut into the glass
and give a clearer area or emphasis to designated parts.  Normally this
was called French embossing in the UK (I did an article on a modern
adaptation of this technique in an issue of Common Ground)

The heating process you mention is used in another area of glass work.
The quick way to polish cut crystal is to immerse it in strong
Hydrochloric (not hydrofluoric) acid heated to at least 40 degrees C.
This is the process used to get a polish on the cut crystal you buy in
the stores.  It can be distinguished by those in the know from the hand
polished (both by sight - much smoother - , and by price - much more
expensive).  Hand polished cut glass will be found only on commissioned
pieces produced by studios, not by commercial firms.

I hope this all does not create more questions than it answers.

Steve

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
----
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From owner-glass Mon Oct 25 17:55:36 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Imagining Elisabeth
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:21:28 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Oct25.132128.0>
References: <<002101bf1f3e$6ec4fc20$96e5fdd1@default>>
Precedence: bulk



I imagined this really amazing Viking woman, and I wasnt disapointed.
:o)
Tulsa Suzanne
> 
> I thought Elizabeth would look more like Mrs. Santa Claus!?
> She always comes across as a jolly person...
> 
> Funny, Cindy.  I had pictured the stereotypical statuesque blond
> Scandinavian.  Thankfully I'd seen a picture on her website before
> she arrived, so I didn't make a (complete) fool of myself when I met
> her in Allentown!
> 
> Kaye
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Mon Oct 25 18:58:13 1999
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig
From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: cutter lube- again w/formating off 
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 20:59:51 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct25.165951.0>
Precedence: bulk

Here's a copy of one of several tech sheets we've done over the years- th=
is
one addresses the debate over cutter lubricants...

Dad said you really never learn to swear until you learn to drive. That=92=
s
not true- it=92s when glass cutting. with the wrong lubricant. Yes folks,=
 it=92s
true. The type and the quality of lubrication is critical to successful
glass cutting.

Glass is a strange material- it=92s not a solid, nor a liquid, but a vitr=
eous
solution- something exhibiting traits of both and none of either- never
mind- read FigHelper # 7 for an explanation, we have to move on. The only
thing you need to concern yourself with for the purpose of this discussio=
n
here is that the outside skin of glass is in a state of =91tension=92 (so=
rt of
like Ed=92s home=85), holding the middle in =91compression=92. When makin=
g a score
with your glass cutter, the wheel only penetrates the surface of the glas=
s
by a mere 1/1000th on an inch (less than that in centimeters=85helpful Ed=
),
into the area of tension, but, at the same time it drives a crack well in=
to
the deeper compression layer. Using a lubricant will minimize excess surf=
ace
fractures as your wheel rolls along the glass. A lubricant literally =91o=
ils=92
the score line reducing surface damage, ands as a bonus it reduces the
tendency of the score to heal itself (Earnest Ainsley=92s job=85Mikey). T=
he
lubricant best suited to this job? Kerosene!

Now, while you might be a better person for understanding the principle
behind making a score, you=92re not really any closer to finding out why =
we
want you to use kerosene. After all, why put oil (which kerosene is) on
glass that=92s already clean? This means we=92ll have to clean the glass =
before
copperfoiling people whine. Oh, the horror. Hey, if we analyze the purpos=
e
of a lubricant we could theoretically use any liquid (don=92t go there Ed=
).
After all, it=92s the presence of a liquid that=92s important, not the ty=
pe.
Sounds kind of like Deja Moo- the feeling that you=92ve heard this bull
before.

But why kerosene.? Let me illustrate the ways;

1) Well, most importantly it is a liquid.

2) It "facilitates the smoothest penetration of the glass surface, keepin=
g
microscopic chipping to a minimum" according to the experts.

3) It=92s cheap and widely available. At Fantasy In Glass it even comes i=
n a
cute little noxema blue glass bottle with enclosed dropper

4) Its=92 oil base prevents cutters from corrosion unlike many of the
synthetic cutter lubricants that make unscrupulous retailers lots of mone=
y

5) It evaporates almost totally, leaving little residue

Let=92s (...)...

Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2
(Tel:416-252-6868)
Canada's first and yes, still its only officially sanctioned stained glas=
s
supplier.


Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2
(Tel:416-252-6868)
Canada's first and yes, still its only officially sanctioned stained glas=
s
supplier.

----
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From owner-glass Mon Oct 25 19:30:17 1999
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: Etched London Pub Windows (was London visit)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 21:39:06 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct25.17396.0>
References: <<1999Oct26.04117.0>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

Thank you Steve.  Very interesting.  Love this list!  My life is filled with
ponderables and imponderables.  It's a treat to have answers once in a
while!

So I probably was right about the etching wheel.  Sometimes it was apparent
that acid etch had been done - that unevenness - but sometimes it looked
like a first blasting for the more dense frosting, and then just a quick
dusting for the lighter parts.  Anyway, they are beautiful.  Whatever they
used for resist was certainly excellent because there was a lot of extremely
fine detail in the etched parts.

It wasn't the heated acid treatment I remember seeing and hearing about, but
that is very interesting.  What I remember was a smallish rectangle in which
lettering had been deep carved, and then I think they'd heated it in a
kiln.  When I saw it they were taking it out of the kiln and putting it in
an annealer.  I later saw the finished work and the lettering was clear.
Next time I'm in Great Panes I'll ask.

The idea of messing about with hydrochloric acid at 104º F is unthinkable.
And hydrofluoric acid (used in acid etching) at any temperature is even
scarier.  And sandblasting can getcha too - silicosis.  Not to mention lead
and other heavy metals and chemicals.  And glass cuts.  And messing about
with hot glass or soldering irons...  Don't know how glass is so right for
me when I'm a total wimp when it comes to pain, and a scardy cat with
danger. - Cec

Steve Richard wrote:

> In message <1999Oct24.201043.0@?>, Cecily and Ralph Wood
> <cecnralph@home.com> writes
> ...cut.....
> >And now a question for you.  A lot of the pubs over there have very
> >impressive etched glass windows.  Here in the states, that is often
> >accomplished by beveling and two stage carving or multi-stage deep
> >carving by sandblasting.  Now I believe I was told that heating
> >something deeped carved would melt the glass enough to melt and become
> >clear again, and I suppose that could have been done, but it looked more
> >like the clear incised parts had been achieved with the help of an
> >engraving wheel.  I didn't see much with multi stage deep carving nor
> >anthing like the intricate bevel clusters used here, but did see a lot
> >of two stage blasting.  So, does anyone know?
> >
> >--
> Well now.  I don't *know*, because I haven't seen which windows you may
> be talking about, but I can make some guesses.
>
> A great number of pub windows were done until the 1960's using a
> combination of brilliant cutting and other techniques.  Brilliant
> cutting can be described by other people better than I can, I'm sure.
> But it is a process where by the glass is suspended in balance and
> applied to cutting wheels, followed by polishing wheels.  The most
> accomplished people could provide great detail and even a number of
> strong curves (difficult to do with the technique)
>
> Sandblasting was not a popular technique over here until after the
> second world war (although I have seen an illustration of a 1920's steam
> driven sandblaster - no don't ask me how it worked).  Most etching of
> glass was done with acids.  The general ground was done with white acid
> or by grinding.  Strong acids were used to provide a cut into the glass
> and give a clearer area or emphasis to designated parts.  Normally this
> was called French embossing in the UK (I did an article on a modern
> adaptation of this technique in an issue of Common Ground)
>
> The heating process you mention is used in another area of glass work.
> The quick way to polish cut crystal is to immerse it in strong
> Hydrochloric (not hydrofluoric) acid heated to at least 40 degrees C.
> This is the process used to get a polish on the cut crystal you buy in
> the stores.  It can be distinguished by those in the know from the hand
> polished (both by sight - much smoother - , and by price - much more
> expensive).  Hand polished cut glass will be found only on commissioned
> pieces produced by studios, not by commercial firms.
>
> I hope this all does not create more questions than it answers.
>
> Steve
>
> --
> Steve Richard
> Verrier Art Glass Ltd
> s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


----
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From owner-glass Mon Oct 25 22:28:21 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: NG Good post Joseph
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 00:28:31 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct25.202831.0>
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Message text written by Suzanne Gunn
>
> Individuals who are fortunate enough to have learned to savor who they
> are become the lucky ones--and succeed in whatever endeavor they
> choose--despite what anyone else may think!<

And then there are folks like me who are constantly =

raising their own bar by fearlessly comparing their =

works to those who are better!  Am at a national =

conference on art and architecture and, wow, am
I humbled by all the incredible work around me... a
good number of the heavy-hitters like Kenneth von
Roehen, David Wilson, Sara Hall, Elizabeth Devereaux,
our own Paul and pj Friend, Botti Studios, Rambusch,
Conrad Scmitt Studios are there.  Whew.  Humbled.  Back to
the drawing board.... and the next step up.  No time
to get too full of myself!  =


Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
----
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From owner-glass Mon Oct 25 23:02:31 1999
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X-Path: hotmail.com!vinchenza
From: "Vinchenza Sweet" <vinchenza@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Subject: please take me off the mailing list
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 22:11:15 PDT
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I do not wish to be on the mailing list .  Please take me off of it.  There 
are too many messages overunning my e-mail. I cannot read them all and they 
are not to me anyhow.
Thank you very much.
Vinchenza@hotmail.com

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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From owner-glass Tue Oct 26 01:01:21 1999
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X-Path: inter-prog.co.uk!alan
From: "Alan Faiers" <alan@inter-prog.co.uk>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Survivors of E-Tour (was Soldering Irons)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:16:21 +0100
Message-ID: <1999Oct26.91621.0>
References: <<199910250843.IAA05315@saturn.nildram.co.uk>>
Precedence: bulk


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
>...  No doubt, there will be a lot of 
> my USA workshops survivors who can tell Alan just what a dragon I 
> am...  ;->

Y-You m-m-mean there ARE some?

Alan


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From owner-glass Tue Oct 26 08:36:19 1999
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X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve
From: Steve Wernecke <steve@villagesoftsmith.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Survivors of E-Tour (was Soldering Irons)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 07:41:28 -0700
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991026074128.009726a0@mail.villagesoftsmith.com>
References: <<199910250843.IAA05315@saturn.nildram.co.uk>>
Precedence: bulk

Yes!  And we're all richer for the experience.   You can do it Alan!!!

Steve

At 08:16 AM 10/26/99 +0100, Alan Faiers wrote:
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
>>...  No doubt, there will be a lot of 
>> my USA workshops survivors who can tell Alan just what a dragon I 
>> am...  ;->
>
>Y-You m-m-mean there ARE some?
>
>Alan
>

----
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From owner-glass Tue Oct 26 10:10:22 1999
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From: "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
To: 'Toby' <toby@northlights.co.uk>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: RE: Soldering Irons
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:18:23 -0400
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This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_001_01BF1FCD.BA760D1E
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"

There were survivors? Thought you took care of them with the sword and
battle axe.
Must have missed a few.

At least you can use them to keep Alan in line.

Vic M.

-----Original Message-----
From: Toby [mailto:toby@northlights.co.uk]
Sent: Monday, October 25, 1999 4:36 AM
To: glass@bungi.com; Peggy W. Johnsen
Subject: Re: Soldering Irons


 No doubt, there will be a lot of 
my USA workshops survivors who can tell Alan just what a dragon I 
am...  ;->


Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

------_=_NextPart_001_01BF1FCD.BA760D1E
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2448.0">
<TITLE>RE: Soldering Irons</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>There were survivors? Thought you took care of them with the sword and battle axe.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Must have missed a few.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>At least you can use them to keep Alan in line.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Vic M.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: Toby [<A HREF="mailto:toby@northlights.co.uk">mailto:toby@northlights.co.uk</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Monday, October 25, 1999 4:36 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: glass@bungi.com; Peggy W. Johnsen</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: Re: Soldering Irons</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp;No doubt, there will be a lot of </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>my USA workshops survivors who can tell Alan just what a dragon I </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>am...&nbsp; ;-&gt;</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK</FONT>
</P>

</BODY>
</HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01BF1FCD.BA760D1E--
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From owner-glass Tue Oct 26 12:10:53 1999
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Mike Figgy <mfig@netcom.ca>
Subject: Re: cutter lube- again w/formating off
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:35:09 +0100
Message-ID: <1999Oct26.19359.0>
References: <<1999Oct25.165951.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

I can only ask, Mike.
Why is any lubricant needed now for our cutters when glass was cut dry
for centuries?

Steve
In message <1999Oct25.165951.0@?>, Mike Figgy <mfig@netcom.ca> writes
>Here's a copy of one of several tech sheets we've done over the years- th=
>is
>one addresses the debate over cutter lubricants...
>
>Dad said you really never learn to swear until you learn to drive. That=92=
>s
>not true- it=92s when glass cutting. with the wrong lubricant. Yes folks,=
> it=92s
>true. The type and the quality of lubrication is critical to successful
>glass cutting.
>
>Glass is a strange material- it=92s not a solid, nor a liquid, but a vitr=
>eous
>solution- something exhibiting traits of both and none of either- never
>mind- read FigHelper # 7 for an explanation, we have to move on. The only
>thing you need to concern yourself with for the purpose of this discussio=
>n
>here is that the outside skin of glass is in a state of =91tension=92 (so=
>rt of
>like Ed=92s home=85), holding the middle in =91compression=92. When makin=
>g a score
>with your glass cutter, the wheel only penetrates the surface of the glas=
>s
>by a mere 1/1000th on an inch (less than that in centimeters=85helpful Ed=
>),
>into the area of tension, but, at the same time it drives a crack well in=
>to
>the deeper compression layer. Using a lubricant will minimize excess surf=
>ace
>fractures as your wheel rolls along the glass. A lubricant literally =91o=
>ils=92
>the score line reducing surface damage, ands as a bonus it reduces the
>tendency of the score to heal itself (Earnest Ainsley=92s job=85Mikey). T=
>he
>lubricant best suited to this job? Kerosene!
>
>Now, while you might be a better person for understanding the principle
>behind making a score, you=92re not really any closer to finding out why =
>we
>want you to use kerosene. After all, why put oil (which kerosene is) on
>glass that=92s already clean? This means we=92ll have to clean the glass =
>before
>copperfoiling people whine. Oh, the horror. Hey, if we analyze the purpos=
>e
>of a lubricant we could theoretically use any liquid (don=92t go there Ed=
>).
>After all, it=92s the presence of a liquid that=92s important, not the ty=
>pe.
>Sounds kind of like Deja Moo- the feeling that you=92ve heard this bull
>before.
>
>But why kerosene.? Let me illustrate the ways;
>
>1) Well, most importantly it is a liquid.
>
>2) It "facilitates the smoothest penetration of the glass surface, keepin=
>g
>microscopic chipping to a minimum" according to the experts.
>
>3) It=92s cheap and widely available. At Fantasy In Glass it even comes i=
>n a
>cute little noxema blue glass bottle with enclosed dropper
>
>4) Its=92 oil base prevents cutters from corrosion unlike many of the
>synthetic cutter lubricants that make unscrupulous retailers lots of mone=
>y
>
>5) It evaporates almost totally, leaving little residue
>
>Let=92s (...)...
>
>Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2
>(Tel:416-252-6868)
>Canada's first and yes, still its only officially sanctioned stained glas=
>s
>supplier.
>
>
>Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2
>(Tel:416-252-6868)
>Canada's first and yes, still its only officially sanctioned stained glas=
>s
>supplier.
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
----
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From owner-glass Tue Oct 26 12:41:39 1999
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X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig
From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
To: "Steve Richard" <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: cutter lube- again w/formating off
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:39:10 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct26.103910.0>
References: <<k3wtgFANZeF4Ew2B@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>>
Precedence: bulk




> I can only ask, Mike.
> Why is any lubricant needed now for our cutters when glass was cut dry
> for centuries?

Do you drive to work by horse and buggy or by car? A crude analogy to
illustrate my point but one I will stick with for now-

Just because it was done that way in the past (and I'm not so sure that your
comment is a true one as 'for centuries' would include a substantial period
of time when cutters in the conventional sense were not used, and I would
like to know your reference to prove if indeed glass was cut without
lubricants) in no way
makes it valid. We burnt people at the stake too but stopped doing that as
the result of better knowledge.

----
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From owner-glass Tue Oct 26 13:42:36 1999
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X-Path: island.net!seaspray
From: seaspray@island.net (synergyglass)
To: Steve Wernecke <steve@villagesoftsmith.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Survivors of E-Tour (was Soldering Irons)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:56:00 -0700
Message-ID: <199910261956.MAA11815@mimas.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

You're all missing the most important thing...underneath the Viking with the
sword and helmet lies a very gentle, very generous soul.  The dragon and
Viking thing is all for show!!  Sorry E., your secret's out :)

C.

>Yes!  And we're all richer for the experience.   You can do it Alan!!!
>
>Steve
>
>At 08:16 AM 10/26/99 +0100, Alan Faiers wrote:
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
>>>...  No doubt, there will be a lot of 
>>> my USA workshops survivors who can tell Alan just what a dragon I 
>>> am...  ;->
>>
>>Y-You m-m-mean there ARE some?
>>
>>Alan
>>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

----
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From owner-glass Tue Oct 26 14:13:45 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!mbwalker
From: Brad Walker <mbwalker@ix.netcom.com>
To: Mike Figgy <mfig@netcom.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: cutter lube- again w/formating off
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:17:35 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct26.121735.0>
References: <<1999Oct26.103910.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Actually, Mike, Steve asks a good question.  Why do we need to use oil at all?

Aside from an occasional drop on the tip, I've been cutting without oil for
years.  In THE FUSED GLASS HANDBOOK author Gil Reynolds writes "It is best to
drain all the oil out of your oil cutter.... I have been using a "dry" oil
cutter for years with no ill effects."

So tell me again:  with all the carcinogens and nasty substances in the world
today, why should I willingly expose myself to a flammable, greasy, and smelly
lubricant when cutting without one works just fine?

Brad Walker

Mike Figgy wrote:

> > I can only ask, Mike.
> > Why is any lubricant needed now for our cutters when glass was cut dry
> > for centuries?
>
> Do you drive to work by horse and buggy or by car? A crude analogy to
> illustrate my point but one I will stick with for now-
>
> Just because it was done that way in the past (and I'm not so sure that your
> comment is a true one as 'for centuries' would include a substantial period
> of time when cutters in the conventional sense were not used, and I would
> like to know your reference to prove if indeed glass was cut without
> lubricants) in no way
> makes it valid. We burnt people at the stake too but stopped doing that as
> the result of better knowledge.
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

----
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From owner-glass Tue Oct 26 14:31:55 1999
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X-Path: MAIL.AOC.STATE.KY.US!KitW
From: "Walden, Kit" <KitW@MAIL.AOC.STATE.KY.US>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: cutter lube- again w/formatting off
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:03:42 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct26.12342.0>
Precedence: bulk

Mike,

If your response was tongue-in-cheek, then I guess I missed that, but you
sounded awfully snooty about it.  I don't think he was questioning your
information but asking a legitimate and curiosity-based question that
interests more than one of us.  More information doesn't help us understand
how they did things the way they did, which I find interesting.  How did
they cut without lubricants?  Did it affect the cuts?  Did they cutters last
longer or die quickly?

kit

Kit Walden
 Tuilelaith's Stained Glass
> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Mike Figgy [SMTP:mfig@netcom.ca]
> Sent:	Tuesday, October 26, 1999 2:39 PM
> To:	Steve Richard
> Subject:	Re: cutter lube- again w/formating off
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > I can only ask, Mike.
> > Why is any lubricant needed now for our cutters when glass was cut dry
> > for centuries?
> 
> Do you drive to work by horse and buggy or by car? A crude analogy to
> illustrate my point but one I will stick with for now-
> 
> Just because it was done that way in the past (and I'm not so sure that
> your
> comment is a true one as 'for centuries' would include a substantial
> period
> of time when cutters in the conventional sense were not used, and I would
> like to know your reference to prove if indeed glass was cut without
> lubricants) in no way
> makes it valid. We burnt people at the stake too but stopped doing that as
> the result of better knowledge.
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Tue Oct 26 14:41:39 1999
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X-Path: crosswinds.net!debbiesgarden
From: DebbieT <debbiesgarden@crosswinds.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: NG-Non Glass MCI internet possible scam?
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:51:14 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct26.125114.0>
Precedence: bulk

Please forgive me for posting non-glass but I am at wit's end. I've been
a Bungi reader for a few years and have always been inspired and humbled
by the people here. Bungi is part of the reason I have remained an
active Internet user.

In July my husband and I were contacted by an MCI telemarketer who
offered us a fairly good deal. If we became MCI long distance customers
we could get the Internet for a $3. per month discount of $16.95 per
month. My husband asked the usual questions including was it unlimited.
He was told yes. We have a separate phone line just for the internet
which the 6 of us in my family and I use, and for my real estate
business. It is on virtually all day. Two weeks after we signed on we
got an apparently prorated bill for $12. I didn't get anything the next
month (August) but last month I got a bill for $721. for Internet
service. Thinking there was a huge mistake I immediately called MCI
World.Com.  No mistake I was told. They said they didn't have unlimited
service and after 150 hours we were charged .99 per min. I told them my
husband asked and was told it was unlimited and there was absolutely no
mention of 150 hours. Basically they said tough, luck pay up. We
appealed and were just told the appeal was denied. They said they would
force us to pay by legal action if necessary. They also said they had
sent us several letters, including the denial, yet we have not received
a single correspondence from them except the above mentioned bills.

Right now I am gathering information for a possible fight in court. I am
sending letters to the FCC, the Postal Fraud unit and my local Consumer
protection office. I am trying to gather information about others who
may have been taken in by this apparent scam. Please ask around and if
you or anyone you know has had this situation with MCI World.Com please
contact me OFF LIST.

I deeply apologize for this non glass topic. Please do not flame me. I
am truly desperate and this is a huge base of people I consider my
friends. Any comments please send off list. Thank you!

Debbie Tenhoff, Baltimore MD.

----
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From owner-glass Tue Oct 26 15:02:38 1999
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X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: <glass@bungi.com>, "Alan Faiers" <alan@inter-prog.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Survivors of E-Tour (was Soldering Irons)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:42:23 +0100
Message-ID: <199910262050.UAA17482@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Nice to see that you got out of "lurker-dom" Alan!!
Yep, there appear to be at least one or two survivors!!
Don't forget, you are let off for good behaviour THIS week (i.e. half 
term!).
UK changes the clock this coming week-end (   :-<    )
We'll be losing one hour until next March.
Hate it!
Take care folks!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
> >...  No doubt, there will be a lot of 
> > my USA workshops survivors who can tell Alan just what a dragon I 
> > am...  ;->
> 
> Y-You m-m-mean there ARE some?
> 
> Alan
> 
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 


----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Tue Oct 26 15:13:45 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Imagining Elisabeth
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:42:23 +0100
Message-ID: <199910262050.UAA17479@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

....Aided and abetted by a certain plastic apparel kindly bestowed 
on me in Solvang, by a certain Peggy - who shall remain 
nameless, ...... then augmented by further bits of plastic apparels 
wished upon me by people with larger imagination than is good for 
them... all apparel of which now resting in the hallway outside my 
bedroom, waiting a final resting home somewhere (i.e. I ACTUALLY 
managed to transport swords, hatchets etc to UK - never mind the 
KILN!!!).

Viking helmets,  hatchets and swords (albeit plastic!) await you 
here in UK  my brave Bungi friends!!

Nostaligcally yours,
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

> 
> 
> I imagined this really amazing Viking woman, and I wasnt disapointed.
> :o)
> Tulsa Suzanne
> > 
> > I thought Elizabeth would look more like Mrs. Santa Claus!?
> > She always comes across as a jolly person...
> > 
> > Funny, Cindy.  I had pictured the stereotypical statuesque blond
> > Scandinavian.  Thankfully I'd seen a picture on her website before
> > she arrived, so I didn't make a (complete) fool of myself when I met
> > her in Allentown!
> > 
> > Kaye
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 


----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Tue Oct 26 15:28:32 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: NG Good post Joseph
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:42:23 +0100
Message-ID: <199910262050.UAA17485@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

............
Sounds about how I felt after my week in Colorado Springs with 
Dani and Michael.......
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Dani wrote:
> 
> And then there are folks like me who are constantly =
> 
> raising their own bar by fearlessly comparing their =
> 
> works to those who are better!  Am at a national =
> 
> conference on art and architecture and, wow, am
> I humbled by all the incredible work around me... a
> good number of the heavy-hitters like Kenneth von
> Roehen, David Wilson, Sara Hall, Elizabeth Devereaux,
> our own Paul and pj Friend, Botti Studios, Rambusch,
> Conrad Scmitt Studios are there.  Whew.  Humbled.  Back to
> the drawing board.... and the next step up.  No time
> to get too full of myself!  =
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Dani Greer
> Greer Gallery & Studios
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 


----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Tue Oct 26 15:37:45 1999
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X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig
From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
To: "Brad Walker" <mbwalker@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: cutter lube- again w/formating off
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:12:44 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct26.131244.0>
References: <<38160C5E.BDE10CEA@ix.netcom.com>>
Precedence: bulk




> Actually, Mike, Steve asks a good question.  Why do we need to use oil at
all?

Well Steve, I think I went over that in my lengthy posting from one of our
FigTech Sheets yesterday...

> Aside from an occasional drop on the tip, I've been cutting without oil
for
> years.  In THE FUSED GLASS HANDBOOK author Gil Reynolds writes "It is best
to
> drain all the oil out of your oil cutter.... I have been using a "dry" oil
> cutter for years with no ill effects."

'Firstly, 'To no ill effects' is a subjective term that comes from someone
(who while I respect for his work/knowledge on fusing) whose criteria for
cutting is totally different from a stained glass craftsperson.
Secondly, his argument against lubricants is for a completely different
reason- one relating to keeping contaminents off glass to lessen the
problems of devitrification.
>
> So tell me again:  with all the carcinogens and nasty substances in the
world
> today, why should I willingly expose myself to a flammable, greasy, and
smelly
> lubricant when cutting without one works just fine?

I guess sex is out then for you too...

I thought I did a good job exactly explaining why...
>
> Brad Walker


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From owner-glass Tue Oct 26 16:18:26 1999
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From: "Modiano, Victor" <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
To: 'bungi' <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Survivors of E-Tour (was Soldering Irons)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:13:16 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct26.131316.0>
Precedence: bulk

You let the secret out. Boy are you in trouble.
And Toby is breaking in his new buddy too....

Vic M.

-----Original Message-----
From: seaspray@island.net [mailto:seaspray@island.net]
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 3:56 PM
To: Steve Wernecke
Subject: Re: Survivors of E-Tour (was Soldering Irons)


You're all missing the most important thing...underneath the Viking with the
sword and helmet lies a very gentle, very generous soul.  The dragon and
Viking thing is all for show!!  Sorry E., your secret's out :)

C.

>Yes!  And we're all richer for the experience.   You can do it Alan!!!
>
>Steve
>
>At 08:16 AM 10/26/99 +0100, Alan Faiers wrote:
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
>>>...  No doubt, there will be a lot of 
>>> my USA workshops survivors who can tell Alan just what a dragon I 
>>> am...  ;->
>>
>>Y-You m-m-mean there ARE some?
>>
>>Alan
>>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

----
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From owner-glass Tue Oct 26 16:47:17 1999
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From: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
To: Bungi Group <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: cutter lube- again w/formating off
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:02:13 -0700
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Precedence: bulk



Brad Walker wrote:

> Actually, Mike, Steve asks a good question.  Why do we need to use oil at all?

>From Figgy's original post

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
2) It "facilitates the smoothest penetration of the glass surface, keeping
microscopic chipping to a minimum" according to the experts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>




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From owner-glass Tue Oct 26 16:52:01 1999
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Mike Figgy <mfig@netcom.ca>
Subject: Re: cutter lube- again w/formating off
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:00:09 +0100
Message-ID: <1999Oct27.009.0>
References: <<015601bf1fe1$67583580$4854b5cf@netcom.ca>>
Precedence: bulk

I guess my question was put too curtly.  I was looking for information
rather than assertion.
Apologies
Steve
In message <015601bf1fe1$67583580$4854b5cf@netcom.ca>, Mike Figgy
<mfig@netcom.ca> writes
>
>
>
>> I can only ask, Mike.
>> Why is any lubricant needed now for our cutters when glass was cut dry
>> for centuries?
>
>Do you drive to work by horse and buggy or by car? A crude analogy to
>illustrate my point but one I will stick with for now-
>
>Just because it was done that way in the past (and I'm not so sure that your
>comment is a true one as 'for centuries' would include a substantial period
>of time when cutters in the conventional sense were not used, and I would
>like to know your reference to prove if indeed glass was cut without
>lubricants) in no way
>makes it valid. We burnt people at the stake too but stopped doing that as
>the result of better knowledge.
>

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
----
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From owner-glass Tue Oct 26 17:21:33 1999
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie_Spitzer
From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie_Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: "'bungi'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: NG-Non Glass MCI internet possible scam?
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:02:20 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct26.14220.0>
Precedence: bulk

when you signed up, didn't they send you any paperwork to sign? hopefully
you still have it and can find in there whether it was unlimited or not. the
verbal contract you made over the phone is worth the paper you signed. make
them produce the tape recording that shows you accepted the deal, and what
the deal was at that time.

you also should contact the appropriate state governing board that licenses
telephone companies. in arizona, it would be the state corporation
commission. they are the ones to talk to about phone company problems.

you might also ask mci whether they sent you the dunning letters registered,
and if so, what the signature states. if they can't produce this, then you
didn't get them since they can't prove that you did.

furthermore, $.99/minute is highway robbery. another mci plan is $.05/min
7pm-7am, with $.35 as off peak charges.

regards,
charlie
phx, az

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DebbieT [mailto:debbiesgarden@crosswinds.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 1:51 PM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: NG-Non Glass MCI internet possible scam?
> 
> 
> Please forgive me for posting non-glass but I am at wit's 
> end. I've been
> a Bungi reader for a few years and have always been inspired 
> and humbled
> by the people here. Bungi is part of the reason I have remained an
> active Internet user.
> 
> In July my husband and I were contacted by an MCI telemarketer who
> offered us a fairly good deal. If we became MCI long distance 
> customers
> we could get the Internet for a $3. per month discount of $16.95 per
> month. My husband asked the usual questions including was it 
> unlimited.
> He was told yes. We have a separate phone line just for the internet
> which the 6 of us in my family and I use, and for my real estate
> business. It is on virtually all day. Two weeks after we signed on we
> got an apparently prorated bill for $12. I didn't get 
> anything the next
> month (August) but last month I got a bill for $721. for Internet
> service. Thinking there was a huge mistake I immediately called MCI
> World.Com.  No mistake I was told. They said they didn't have 
> unlimited
> service and after 150 hours we were charged .99 per min. I 
> told them my
> husband asked and was told it was unlimited and there was 
> absolutely no
> mention of 150 hours. Basically they said tough, luck pay up. We
> appealed and were just told the appeal was denied. They said 
> they would
> force us to pay by legal action if necessary. They also said they had
> sent us several letters, including the denial, yet we have 
> not received
> a single correspondence from them except the above mentioned bills.
> 
> Right now I am gathering information for a possible fight in 
> court. I am
> sending letters to the FCC, the Postal Fraud unit and my 
> local Consumer
> protection office. I am trying to gather information about others who
> may have been taken in by this apparent scam. Please ask around and if
> you or anyone you know has had this situation with MCI 
> World.Com please
> contact me OFF LIST.
> 
> I deeply apologize for this non glass topic. Please do not flame me. I
> am truly desperate and this is a huge base of people I consider my
> friends. Any comments please send off list. Thank you!
> 
> Debbie Tenhoff, Baltimore MD.
 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Oct 26 18:48:16 1999
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X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig
From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
To: "Steve Richard" <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: cutter lube- again w/formating off
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:50:53 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct26.155053.0>
References: <<oL5u$XApRiF4Ew0O@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>>
Precedence: bulk

No Steve, I didn't take the question as 'curt', that might be too
flattering. You say you were looking for information, well, I think if you
actually read what I wrote you would have found about two pages of
information answering the very question you asked, as you seem to have just
done again.
Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2
(Tel:416-252-6868)
Canada's first and yes, still its only officially sanctioned stained glass
supplier.

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Mike Figgy <mfig@netcom.ca>
Cc: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: October 26, 1999 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: cutter lube- again w/formating off


> I guess my question was put too curtly.  I was looking for information
> rather than assertion.
> Apologies
> Steve
> In message <015601bf1fe1$67583580$4854b5cf@netcom.ca>, Mike Figgy
> <mfig@netcom.ca> writes
> >
> >
> >
> >> I can only ask, Mike.
> >> Why is any lubricant needed now for our cutters when glass was cut dry
> >> for centuries?
> >
> >Do you drive to work by horse and buggy or by car? A crude analogy to
> >illustrate my point but one I will stick with for now-
> >
> >Just because it was done that way in the past (and I'm not so sure that
your
> >comment is a true one as 'for centuries' would include a substantial
period
> >of time when cutters in the conventional sense were not used, and I would
> >like to know your reference to prove if indeed glass was cut without
> >lubricants) in no way
> >makes it valid. We burnt people at the stake too but stopped doing that
as
> >the result of better knowledge.
> >
>
> --
> Steve Richard
> Verrier Art Glass Ltd
> s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
>

----
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From owner-glass Tue Oct 26 19:14:08 1999
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X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig
From: "Mike Figgy" <mfig@netcom.ca>
To: "Walden, Kit" <KitW@MAIL.AOC.STATE.KY.US>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: cutter lube- again w/formatting off
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:16:31 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct26.161631.0>
References: <<1999Oct26.12342.0>>
Precedence: bulk


Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2
(Tel:416-252-6868)
Canada's first and yes, still its only officially sanctioned stained glass
supplier.

----- Original Message -----
From: Walden, Kit <KitW@MAIL.AOC.STATE.KY.US>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Sent: October 26, 1999 4:03 PM
Subject: RE: cutter lube- again w/formatting off


> Mike,
>
> If your response was tongue-in-cheek, then I guess I missed that, but you
> sounded awfully snooty about it.

It was a snooty tongue-in-cheek...

I don't think he was questioning your
> information but asking a legitimate and curiosity-based question that
> interests more than one of us.

Sorry Kit, that doesn't wash. I've been lurking on bungi for quite awhile
popping up occassionally with a comment or some information with the purpose
of trying to help/clarifying points made by others. It frustrates me greatly
when people put pen to paper (or in this case finger to keyboard) with the
sole intent of 'spouting' off on the pretense that they actually have
something to say. Someone asking why do we need cutter lube when I just
finished writing why we do seems kind of pointless, no?

More information doesn't help us understand
> how they did things the way they did, which I find interesting.
I don't get it? 'More information doesn't help' you say?

How did
> they cut without lubricants?  Did it affect the cuts?  Did they cutters
last
> longer or die quickly?

I thought I answered these questions. Firstly, centuries ago they didn't use
cutters as we know them today (actually a hot iron and spit- hey- does that
constitute a lubricant?- was an early form of glass cutting), and secondly,
when cutters were introduced who said they didn't use lubricants?

I need a drink...
>
> kit



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From owner-glass Tue Oct 26 19:47:52 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!mbwalker
From: Brad Walker <mbwalker@ix.netcom.com>
To: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: cutter lube- again w/formating off
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:44:35 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct26.164435.0>
References: <<1999Oct26.8213.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Sorry, I still don't understand.  The original question still stands.  What
difference does "keeping microscopic chipping to a minimum" make?  Is the integrity
compromised?  Will my work fall apart if I don't use oil?  Is "microscopic chipping"
so extreme a problem that minimizing it is absolutely necessary?

And more questions:  does grinding reduce or increase "microscopic chipping?"  I
would think that fusing eliminates it, but does it?  What about the impact of a
glass saw?  Does covering the edges with copper foil and then soldering create a
bond that's stronger than "microscopic chipping"?  Does wrapping the edge in lead
came and then glazing have an impact?  Or is "microscopic chipping" so insidious a
factor that it's to be avoided no matter what?

Sheesh.  All I did was ask why oil was so important, since I can't tell any
difference in the work that's done with or without oil in the cutter.  "Chipping"
may be a factor at the "microscopic" level, but it's not clear to me why it's a
problem in the finished work.

Still looking for information,
Brad Walker


rrk wrote:

> Brad Walker wrote:
>
> > Actually, Mike, Steve asks a good question.  Why do we need to use oil at all?
>
> >From Figgy's original post
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> 2) It "facilitates the smoothest penetration of the glass surface, keeping
> microscopic chipping to a minimum" according to the experts.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

----
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From owner-glass Tue Oct 26 20:00:38 1999
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From: Hilary <hilary@voicenet.com>
To: Joseph Augusta <jaugusta@capecod.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Macho lead came?
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:07:46 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct26.18746.0>
References: <<1999Oct25.104853.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Having no experience with this, it is pretty cheeky of me to answer this
post, but...

The UU Church in Philly just restored the Tiffany rose window. (It's
spectacular.) I went to the dedication where the man in charge of the
restoration spoke. He said that the drapery glass ranged from 1/4" to 1"
in depth. They used a T-shaped came on both sides so that the difference
in depths could be accommodated. Exactly the technique? I'm clueless.
But it is a place to start.

Anyone know how this works? I have an inquiring mind, too!

Hilary


> ... where can I get some some 7/8" U or H
> lead came for the small dalles I'm making?  Dalles are hand-blown and
> vary in thickness from 7/8"--1".  Is there such an animal in lead came?
----
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From owner-glass Tue Oct 26 20:54:44 1999
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From: Carolyn Noel <glasscat@infinet.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Clown pattern
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:41:29 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct26.184129.0>
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Hi Bungians:
I need my fellow Bungians help. A clown face pattern (the "old
fashioned" kind--as in Emmett Kelly), to fit in an area just shy of 6"H
x 9"W. I have some clown patterns, but nothing like that. Anybody out
there have anything available? Really appreciate it. 
Thanks in advance,
Carolyn
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From owner-glass Tue Oct 26 21:49:38 1999
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From: rrk <ezbongo2@pacbell.net>
To: Brad Walker <mbwalker@ix.netcom.com>, Bungi Group <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: cutter lube- again w/formating off
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:07:29 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct26.14729.0>
References: <<1999Oct26.164435.0@mta2.snfc21.pbi.net>>
Precedence: bulk



Brad Walker wrote:

> Sorry, I still don't understand.  The original question still stands.  What
> difference does "keeping microscopic chipping to a minimum" make?  Is the integrity
> compromised?  Will my work fall apart if I don't use oil?  Is "microscopic chipping"
> so extreme a problem that minimizing it is absolutely necessary?
>
> And more questions:  does grinding reduce or increase "microscopic chipping?"  I
> would think that fusing eliminates it, but does it?  What about the impact of a
> glass saw?  Does covering the edges with copper foil and then soldering create a
> bond that's stronger than "microscopic chipping"?  Does wrapping the edge in lead
> came and then glazing have an impact?  Or is "microscopic chipping" so insidious a
> factor that it's to be avoided no matter what?
>
> Sheesh.  All I did was ask why oil was so important, since I can't tell any
> difference in the work that's done with or without oil in the cutter.  "Chipping"
> may be a factor at the "microscopic" level, but it's not clear to me why it's a
> problem in the finished work.

Brad,

Hey guys ... lets simmer down.

I was just pointing out that Mike Figgy had already addressed the question in his first
post.

In fact, I don't agree with the reason given.  [Sorry Mike <G>]

The reason to use a lubricant on a glass cutter wheel, is to keep the wheel from wearing
out and keep the wheel as sharp as possible.  The sharper the tool, the better it cuts
... or in our case, the sharper the cutting wheel, the better it scores.

The function of the kerosene is to dilute the oil.

Not much oil is actually required to diminish the wear on the wheel.  The more viscous
undiluted oil accumulates dirt and glass particulates and other crud in and on the wheel
whereas oil diluted with kerosene doesn't.  Just to mention that oil left on the glass
after cutting has to be wiped or washed off the glass or adhesives don't adhere to the
glass very well.

Today (1999) most cutting wheels (by no means all) are coated with the extremely hard
substance, carbide, and probably don't require lubrication as much as a stainless steel
cutting wheel.  Stainless steel cutters wear out faster by an order of magnitude (at
least) which is why carbide coated cutting wheels are preferred.

Carbide coated cutting wheels are relatively recent and only started becoming common
around the late 1970's (I think).  Can't be too much before then because Union Carbide
only figured out how to do it cheaply enough at a hobbyist level for this application
around that time.  Before then, carbide coated cutting wheels weren't exactly cheap, as
I recall.

Using oil and/or a kerosene/oil mix is more or less a holdover from the days before
carbide coated cutting wheels became cheaply available.

Very unusual for me to check this list twice in one day ... later guys.

Regards to all ..... Bob (the younger <G>)

PS ... I owe you a response on that laser thing and will get around to it soon.  First
time I wrote it this computer blitzed out before I pushed the SEND button and I didn't
get around to redoing it.


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From owner-glass Tue Oct 26 22:14:31 1999
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: cutter lube-
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:07:08 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct26.2078.0>
References: <<1999Oct26.164435.0>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

He did mention also that the "cut" takes longer to heal with lubricant.  This gives you
more time to break a particularly tricky cut.  In truth, you do get a better cut when
you use the lubricant.  To those to whom the use of a grinder is an anathema, this is
important.  If you are doing glass for a living and need accuracy and speed, this is
also a good thing.

I've also been told it makes your cutting tip last longer, and makes for a better cut
since it floats away the glass residue that otherwise would gum up the tip.  If true,
that certainly ought to interest us because of the cost savings.

However, I'm curious whether in the long run it affects the stability of the glass
after it is set into a piece.  If this minute cutting irregularity is harmful, wouldn't
you think grozing would be even more so?  Maybe (probably) when I groze I'm not doing
it correctly, but I get glass all OVER!  When I grind, at least I can somewhat contain
the mess.

And why would grozing not harm, but grinding would?  In that case all that beautiful
Waterford crystal or those English pub windows done with the cutting and polishing
wheels would be piles of cullet, wouldn't you think?  Curioser and curioser. - Cecily

Brad Walker wrote:

> Sorry, I still don't understand.  The original question still stands.  What
> difference does "keeping microscopic chipping to a minimum" make?  Is the integrity
> compromised?  Will my work fall apart if I don't use oil?  Is "microscopic chipping"
> so extreme a problem that minimizing it is absolutely necessary?
>
> And more questions:  does grinding reduce or increase "microscopic chipping?"  I
> would think that fusing eliminates it, but does it?  What about the impact of a
> glass saw?  Does covering the edges with copper foil and then soldering create a
> bond that's stronger than "microscopic chipping"?  Does wrapping the edge in lead
> came and then glazing have an impact?  Or is "microscopic chipping" so insidious a
> factor that it's to be avoided no matter what?
>
> Sheesh.  All I did was ask why oil was so important, since I can't tell any
> difference in the work that's done with or without oil in the cutter.  "Chipping"
> may be a factor at the "microscopic" level, but it's not clear to me why it's a
> problem in the finished work.
>
> Still looking for information,
> Brad Walker
>
> rrk wrote:
>
> > Brad Walker wrote:
> >
> > > Actually, Mike, Steve asks a good question.  Why do we need to use oil at all?
> >
> > >From Figgy's original post
> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > 2) It "facilitates the smoothest penetration of the glass surface, keeping
> > microscopic chipping to a minimum" according to the experts.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Tue Oct 26 22:26:53 1999
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From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: Macho lead came?
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:19:04 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct26.20194.0>
References: <<1999Oct26.18746.0>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

OK - I've heard of high heart came, U came, H came, but not T came.  But the
drapery glass poses a different problem from dalles, doesn't it?  I thought
dalles generally were set with mastic, or cement/grout of some sort.

Hilary wrote:

> Having no experience with this, it is pretty cheeky of me to answer this
> post, but...
>
> The UU Church in Philly just restored the Tiffany rose window. (It's
> spectacular.) I went to the dedication where the man in charge of the
> restoration spoke. He said that the drapery glass ranged from 1/4" to 1"
> in depth. They used a T-shaped came on both sides so that the difference
> in depths could be accommodated. Exactly the technique? I'm clueless.
> But it is a place to start.
>
> Anyone know how this works? I have an inquiring mind, too!
>
> Hilary
>
> > ... where can I get some some 7/8" U or H
> > lead came for the small dalles I'm making?  Dalles are hand-blown and
> > vary in thickness from 7/8"--1".  Is there such an animal in lead came?
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Wed Oct 27 08:23:13 1999
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From: ACASADO@webtv.net (Ali Casado)
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Full Fuse
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:26:59 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1999Oct27.62659.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,
I have a question for any of you professional fusers.  I wanted to full
fuse 2 Uroboros 1/8" thick clear glass sandwiching dichroic pieces
inbetween.  I fired it to 1350'F and held for 5 minutes.  The edges did
not fully round.  My question is, do I re-fire again to 1350 and hold it
for 10 or more minutes, or fire to 1400'F and hold it for 5 or more
minutes or not hold at all?
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

Ali :=)

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From owner-glass Wed Oct 27 11:20:54 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu
From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Ali Casado" <ACASADO@webtv.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Full Fuse
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:29:46 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct27.32946.0>
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>>I wanted to full
fuse 2 Uroboros 1/8" thick clear glass sandwiching dichroic pieces
in between.  I fired it to 1350'F and held for 5 minutes.  The edges did
not fully round.  My question is, do I re-fire again to 1350 and hold it
for 10 or more minutes, or fire to 1400'F and hold it for 5 or more
minutes or not hold at all?
<<

You are firing about 75'F to low.

Firing to 1430'F at a rate of advance of 300'F per hour and holding for 10
minutes gives a nicely rounded edge with Spectrum.

The above formula is for a previously unfired project. Because your current
project is 1/4"+ thick reduce rate of advance to 100'F per hour, go to
1420'F and hold for 10 minutes.

Bob in SOCAL

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From owner-glass Wed Oct 27 14:23:10 1999
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From: suzy <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: NG: My Cat
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:25:27 -0400
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Precedence: bulk

Just wanted to let you all know my cat is alive and doing well. The 
accident apparently triggered rapid-onset asthma, and she will be taking 
prednisone the rest of her life, but at least she *has* a rest to her 
life!

Thanks to all who expressed concern. It helped.

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Wed Oct 27 15:24:52 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Macho lead came?
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:22:17 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct27.132217.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by Cecily and Ralph Wood
>I've heard of high heart came,<

High-heart came is not nearly as high as Joseph =

requested... almost one inch.  I think about 3/16
is what's commonly available through wholesalers.
I know some mills will custom mill lead to customer
specification, but I don't have any names to pass
on.  Would be interested in knowing though.

Best,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Thu Oct 28 06:57:26 1999
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Macho lead came?
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:59:18 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Oct28.125918.0>
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In a message dated 10/27/99 6:26:59 PM, GreerStudios@compuserve.com writes:

>High-heart came is not nearly as high as Joseph
>requested... almost one inch.  I think about 3/16
>is what's commonly available through wholesalers.
>I know some mills will custom mill lead to customer
>specification, but I don't have any names to pass
>on.  Would be interested in knowing though.

>From a recent issue of Stained Glass Magazine:

DHD Metals: their display ad shows several different "oddball" came profiles 
(including a right-angle one) and says "We specialize in manufacturing 
Restoration Grades of Lead Came to order." They're also listed in the latest 
IGGA Sources Guide.
    PO Box 165
    Convers, GA, US 30207
    Telephone: (770) 760-9404
    Facsimile: (770) 760-9032
    Toll Free: (800) 428-6693 (from Canada and the U.S.)
    (sorry, doesn't look like they've got a web site.)

Mayfield Manufacturing Co. (makers of Premier lead came)
    PO Box 19397
    Birmingham, AL 35219
    Telephone: (205) 942-4242
    Facsimile: (205) 945-8704
    Toll Free: (800) 749-6061 (from the U.S. only)
    (no web site here either.)

Hope that helps!


Sparks

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From owner-glass Thu Oct 28 07:28:23 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Position open in the Rosen Group
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:02:42 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct28.5242.0>
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The following full-time position is open at the Rosen Group - the
management
organization which produces the world's largest wholesale craft shows.  T=
he
International Guild of Glass Artists (IGGA) recently participated in the
Summer
1999 "Buyers Market of American Crafts" show in Philadelphia.  The Rosen
Group
is a highly-respected organization in the wholesale crafts market.

WANTED: EXHIBITS REP =

Immediate opening at the Rosen Group's Baltimore office for a glass
exhibits
rep. Duties include artist interaction, application processing,
floorplanning and more. Fax your resume to 410.889.1320 or email
<ExhibitsRep@rosengrp.com>.

Christie A. Wood, IGGA Exec. Director
Art Glass Ensembles
North Wales, PA U.S.A.
----
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From owner-glass Thu Oct 28 08:29:06 1999
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X-Path: ll.mit.edu!cogen
From: David Cogen <cogen@ll.mit.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Macho lead came?
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:27:46 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <199910281424.KAA00290@ll.mit.edu>
Precedence: bulk

Coran-Sholes in Boston Mass. used to make custom lead shapes last time I was
there. I believe the minimum order was fairly large though.

-- DavidC
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From owner-glass Thu Oct 28 08:59:29 1999
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From: jones96@mailcity.com
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit
Subject: More Internet Traffic    adv
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:30:43 +0800 (CST)
Message-ID: <199910281430.WAA27115@public.jninfo.net.cn>
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Do you need more traffic to your web site?

The company I work with submits web sites
to search engines for only 11 cents per 
engine.  We will submit your site to
over 350 search engines for a one time 
charge of only $39.95!  To get listed 
in the major search engines and
get more traffic to your web site
call me on our toll-free number listed
below.
   

All work is verified!
 
Sincerely,
 
Mike Davidson
(888) 892-7537


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From owner-glass Thu Oct 28 09:34:46 1999
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X-Path: mtcon.net!shigbee
From: "Shari" <shigbee@mtcon.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Las Vegas glass
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:40:32 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Oct28.34032.0>
Precedence: bulk

Besides the Bellagio, does anyone know of any glass sites in Las Vegas?
(I.e., stores, suppliers, etc.)
Thanks,
Shari


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From owner-glass Thu Oct 28 10:02:10 1999
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From: "Spitzer, Charlie" <Charlie_Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: "'bungi'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: FW: Macho lead came?
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:00:56 -0400
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i was just reading the oct/nov 99 issue of glass craftsman last night and
found an ad for mayfield manufacturing (http://www.mayfieldmfg.com) that
states they have over 50 lead profiles available and will make custom
profiles.

regards,
charlie
phx, az

-----Original Message-----
From: David Cogen [mailto:cogen@ll.mit.edu] 
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 7:28 AM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Macho lead came?


Coran-Sholes in Boston Mass. used to make custom lead shapes last time I was
there. I believe the minimum order was fairly large though.

-- DavidC
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----
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From owner-glass Thu Oct 28 21:35:22 1999
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>, Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: Imagining E in costume [NG]
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:37:26 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct28.193726.0>
References: <<199910262050.UAA17479@saturn.nildram.co.uk>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

Not as a final resting place, but at least Sunday evening, it belongs ON
you.  And you also need a sack (burlap - over-the-shoulder) for pillaging
and then you go a viking.  You knock on your neighbor's doors and announce
"Trick or Treat", and if they don't fork over goodies, you take soap and
mark on their windows.

Or of course you could hold a party and have everyone come in costume.  It
is turning out that Halloween in the US is second only to Christmas in
popularity.  If so, the proper drink is cider - no not the bottled kind,
but fresh - maybe with just a sting of alcohol as it becomes "hard".  And
one of the proper foods to serve is doughnuts - not the raised ones but the
cake kind - with or without powered sugar.  You can bob for apples (put
apples in a tub of water and attempt to get one without using your hands)
or make jack-o-lanterns by carving scary faces into pumpkins, and then
putting a candle inside (after removing the slimy seedy guts).  And the
proper decoration, aside from the jack-o-lanterns, is cornstalks (not
wheat/hay but maize).  Bonfires of fall leaves used to be a part of the
ritual, but pollution controls have ended that here.  So I guess you'd have
to toast your marshmallows in the fireplace instead.

I think this is sort of like Guy Fawkes day for you - and almost nobody
here has even heard of him. - Cecily (a Meredith student - who finished and
survived!)

Toby wrote:

> ....Aided and abetted by a certain plastic apparel kindly bestowed
> on me in Solvang, by a certain Peggy - who shall remain
> nameless, ...... then augmented by further bits of plastic apparels
> wished upon me by people with larger imagination than is good for
> them... all apparel of which now resting in the hallway outside my
> bedroom, waiting a final resting home somewhere (i.e. I ACTUALLY
> managed to transport swords, hatchets etc to UK - never mind the
> KILN!!!).
>
> Viking helmets,  hatchets and swords (albeit plastic!) await you
> here in UK  my brave Bungi friends!!
>
> Nostaligcally yours,
> Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
>
> >
> >
> > I imagined this really amazing Viking woman, and I wasnt disapointed.
> > :o)
> > Tulsa Suzanne
> > >
> > > I thought Elizabeth would look more like Mrs. Santa Claus!?
> > > She always comes across as a jolly person...
> > >
> > > Funny, Cindy.  I had pictured the stereotypical statuesque blond
> > > Scandinavian.  Thankfully I'd seen a picture on her website before
> > > she arrived, so I didn't make a (complete) fool of myself when I met
> > > her in Allentown!
> > >
> > > Kaye
> > > ----
> > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
>
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


----
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From owner-glass Fri Oct 29 07:11:49 1999
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X-Path: heesun.com!keane
From: "Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd." <keane@heesun.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: New Toyo cutter
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:35:29 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct29.53529.0>
Precedence: bulk

I know I mentioned the new cutter from Toyo a while back...............well
in this issue of Stained Glass News it's there.  Look on page 4 under New
Products and there is a small write up and picture of the new Toyo Custom
Grip Supercutter.......

Robert
Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd.
 888-508-5595
http://www.heesun.com
Custom Design Studio , Supplies & Classes for Stained & Fused Glass &
Mosaics

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From owner-glass Fri Oct 29 17:22:26 1999
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From: ACASADO@webtv.net (Ali Casado)
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
Subject: What to charge
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:45:31 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1999Oct29.154531.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,
I've gotten an order to cut (with my ring saw), 40 circles a little
larger than a silver dollar.  The glass, although I haven't seen it, is
exotic and heavily textured.  What do I charge for something like that?
Per piece, by the hour, based on the difficulty of cutting it?  Also,
the person who this is for, said the glass is iridized and doesn't want
the glass to be rubbing on the work surface scratching the iridized
finish.  He suggested I apply masking tape on the iridized side to
protect it.  Wouldn't that harm the blade of the saw?  (The residue of
the adhesive from the masking tape).
Do I cut the glass with the texture up, or facing the work surface? 
Any suggestion, would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

Ali :=)

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From owner-glass Fri Oct 29 17:37:57 1999
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X-Path: aol.com!Machiu
From: Machiu@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Looking for glass in Munich
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:35:06 EDT
Message-ID: <1999Oct29.23356.0>
Precedence: bulk

A lurker emerges.....please forgive me if I don't post this according to 
proper bungi procedures.....

My husband has a wonderful opportunity to work in Munich for a year, so we're 
going to pack up our lives here in Boston and head to Germany in January.  
Does anyone know of any Stained Glass sights that I can't miss?  How about 
any SG studios that would like a volunteer a few days a week?  I've been 
doing SG (lead and foil) as a hobby for about 5 years, and would love to gain 
more experience.  Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Thanks!  
-Maren
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From owner-glass Fri Oct 29 19:27:46 1999
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X-Path: fastlane.net!byronw
From: "Byron Wells" <byronw@fastlane.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Blasting box
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:30:32 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Oct29.153032.0>
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Hey All...

Now that I've finally built my new shop I'm looking to buy a new blasting
setup.... I've been looking at the Glastar Glasspasser and the
MiniPasser...There is quite a difference in size and price of course... I
think the minipasser would do everything I need...Any opinions one way or
another would be appreciated...

Byron..
Wells Glassworks

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From owner-glass Fri Oct 29 19:57:11 1999
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From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: Ali Casado <ACASADO@webtv.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: What to charge
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:12:32 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct29.181232.0>
References: <<1999Oct29.154531.0>>
Organization: Mike's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

Ali Casado wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> I've gotten an order to cut (with my ring saw), 40 circles a little
> larger than a silver dollar.  The glass, although I haven't seen it, is
> exotic and heavily textured.  What do I charge for something like that?
> Per piece, by the hour, based on the difficulty of cutting it?  Also,
> the person who this is for, said the glass is iridized and doesn't want
> the glass to be rubbing on the work surface scratching the iridized
> finish.  He suggested I apply masking tape on the iridized side to
> protect it.  Wouldn't that harm the blade of the saw?  (The residue of
> the adhesive from the masking tape).
> Do I cut the glass with the texture up, or facing the work surface?
> Any suggestion, would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Ali :=)
> 
> ----
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that's a toughie. 

first making perfect circles with the ringsaw. there is a kit that's
new, haven't seen it in a store yet. 

the tape should'nt effect it too much. you should test it first though.
masking tape is kind of tough, packing tape may work better. though it
may be more difficult to remove. 

a lens cutter may actually be better. though that's a big maybe. 

as for price. i would charge per piece. first i'd try cutting a few
circles with a heavy textured piece of my own. i would do textured side
up because the lumps could mess up the cut. but since it's up, it will
be hard to trace a circle on the glass. 

maybe $2 to $5 per circle. i'm wondering why they can't do it themselves
and what it's going to be for. actually $3.00 per piece may be a fair
price.


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making
your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are
also a lot of new Sky City pictures.
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From owner-glass Fri Oct 29 20:32:06 1999
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X-Path: heesun.com!keane
From: "Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd." <keane@heesun.com>
To: "Byron Wells" <byronw@fastlane.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Blasting box
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:38:39 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct29.183839.0>
Precedence: bulk

Check out this site.  There is some neat information on building your own
box......Believe me it's a lot cheaper and you can get exactly what you
want.

Robert
Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd.
888-508-5595
http://www.heesun.com
Custom Design Studio , Supplies & Classes for Stained & Fused Glass &
Mosaics
-----Original Message-----
From: Byron Wells <byronw@fastlane.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Friday, October 29, 1999 10:29 PM
Subject: Blasting box


>Hey All...
>
>Now that I've finally built my new shop I'm looking to buy a new blasting
>setup.... I've been looking at the Glastar Glasspasser and the
>MiniPasser...There is quite a difference in size and price of course... I
>think the minipasser would do everything I need...Any opinions one way or
>another would be appreciated...
>
>Byron..
>Wells Glassworks
>
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Fri Oct 29 20:46:22 1999
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From: "Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd." <keane@heesun.com>
To: "Byron Wells" <byronw@fastlane.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Blasting Box URL
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:40:31 -0400
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Whoops hit the send key too quick.....
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/6937/

Robert
Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd.
888-508-5595
http://www.heesun.com
Custom Design Studio , Supplies & Classes for Stained & Fused Glass &
Mosaics

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From owner-glass Fri Oct 29 22:57:46 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu
From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Byron Wells" <byronw@fastlane.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Blasting box
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:06:01 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct29.1561.0>
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That's right! Go to: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/6937/
for all the info you need on building your own blasting cabinet. You'll be
glad you did and able to celebrate by buying about 50 full sheets of glass.

Bob in SOCAL

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From owner-glass Fri Oct 29 23:57:33 1999
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X-Path: webtv.net!alipearson
From: alipearson@webtv.net (alipea)
To: keane@heesun.com (Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd.)
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Blasting box
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 02:08:46 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1999Oct29.22846.0>
References: <<keane@heesun.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Is a blasting box a kiln? I've never heard of one? (I am a newbie.

Ali of 
Blue Moon Glass Works blmoonglasswrks@webtv,net

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From owner-glass Sat Oct 30 01:02:53 1999
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From: "jazzykid" <jazzykid@tir.com>
To: "Bungi" <Glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Medieval and Renaissance Stained Glass website
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 02:52:12 -0400
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Nice website from Detroit Institute of Art

http://www.dia.org/frameset.html

Jill

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From owner-glass Sat Oct 30 04:35:02 1999
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X-Path: mediaone.net!embee
From: "Mary" <embee@mediaone.net>
To: "Ali Casado" <ACASADO@webtv.net>, <Glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: What to charge
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 06:32:14 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct30.23214.0>
References: <<1999Oct29.154531.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I would use the masking tape on the shelf of the ringsaw instead of on the
glass itself. If it wouldn't stay after the water soaks it, I would even
safety pin a small square of lightweight cloth so that the glass rides on
something smooth.
Good luck...
Mary


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From owner-glass Sat Oct 30 06:38:00 1999
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Subject: Re: What to charge
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 08:39:12 EDT
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There's nothing quite as useful as a good circle cutter.
Make it worth you time.  This will not be fun.
Anne
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 30 08:46:38 1999
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X-Path: home.com!cecnralph
From: Cecily and Ralph Wood <cecnralph@home.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Re: Blasting box
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:39:08 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct30.6398.0>
References: <<1999Oct29.1561.0>>
Organization: Grendel Studios
Precedence: bulk

Chauglie (I think that's the spelling) is very helpful and I see he's updated
his website.  Email him with your questions, and he'll steer you right.

Bob Duchesneau wrote:

> That's right! Go to: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/6937/
> for all the info you need on building your own blasting cabinet. You'll be
> glad you did and able to celebrate by buying about 50 full sheets of glass.
>
> Bob in SOCAL
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

--
*********************************************************************
*  Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood  and/or  Ralph Bernard Wood
*  Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy)
*********************************************************************


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From owner-glass Sat Oct 30 09:04:04 1999
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From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: What to charge
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:48:55 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct30.64855.0>
References: <<1999Oct30.23214.0>>
Organization: Mike's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

Mary wrote:
> 
> I would use the masking tape on the shelf of the ringsaw instead of on the
> glass itself. If it wouldn't stay after the water soaks it, I would even
> safety pin a small square of lightweight cloth so that the glass rides on
> something smooth.
> Good luck...
> Mary
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


the main problem is that the grit coming off of the blade can get under
and scratch the glass that way...


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making
your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are
also a lot of new Sky City pictures.
----
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 30 09:41:27 1999
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From: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: What to charge
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 11:57:40 -0400
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Make one and time it, this is not something I'd want!!! charge to make
money...consider the time on you and your blade. good luck.
Dee
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 30 10:13:59 1999
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X-Path: mars.ark.com!wmunro
From: wmunro@mars.ark.com (Wayne Munro)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Moose Elk Pattern for clock.
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 09:10:02 -0700
Message-ID: <199910301610.JAA26741@ark.com>
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone. 
I need a pattern for a moose or elk that will be suitable for a clock. Or
easy to adapt to one. I am looking at about 14 inches by 20 inches total
size.?? (Or in that size range). Has anyone got something like that I can
'borrow'?

Thanks and have a good day.......Wayne


Wayne Munro 'Snail mail' address
2960 Suffield Road,
Courtenay, B.C. Canada   V9N-3V5

ICQ # 2762376
Phone and Fax-- (250) 338-5507  
 "Call before sending a fax so setup is complete"

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From owner-glass Sat Oct 30 11:15:16 1999
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Travels with my kiln
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 18:05:31 +0100
Message-ID: <199910301713.RAA12617@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk



Well folks,

This is it!!!


My precious kiln, hand carried all the way from USA is now up and 
running! Wired into the electrical cooker supply,  2 doors away 
from my cottage,   my friend Jenny and I bought that property a few 
months back,  to convert to a larger Studio for both of us. She has 
got bitten by the glass-bug!       I blame YOU lot!!   ;->

2 of my students - 1 a metal worker, the other an electrician - 
came along one evening and checked the kiln out for me, 
straightened out the hinge that got bent, , unbent other minor 
details for me (and were rewarded with dinner) and then presented 
me with a tin of pale coloured fire cement to patch up the minor 
external blemishes that the kiln had been subjected to during its 
long journey Across The Pond.

The Kiln and I have had our first quite emotional acquaintance;  I 
followed the Spectrum Web-site guide-lines and had my first 
"fusing session" - simple stuff, nothing grand, just to get to know 
this little (or not so little) beauty.  So I will experiment for a while 
with fusing and slumping - before I attempt to fire anything painted.
This is a totally different experience from what I was learning about 
kiln work 20 odd years ago - and much more fun.

As regards slumping, which will be my next learning curve after 
playing about with fusing a bit more, I read about clay molds. On 
my first fusing session my other friend - Susan (the potter) - was 
with me.
We discussed the possibility of making our own clay molds. She 
has researched the different clays and which ones would take the 
temperature that glass slumping would require.

My question is, for glass  slumping AND when  making your own 
clay molds - how THICK should these molds be????

Delores, many, many thanks for your earlier firing input! I will get 
back to you.

Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK - having fun on a rainy autumn day


----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 30 13:11:14 1999
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From: "jazzykid" <jazzykid@tir.com>
To: "Bungi" <Glass@bungi.com>, "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Travels with my kiln
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 15:10:47 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct30.111047.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Elisabeth,

I took a fusing and slumping class this fall.  The instructor mentioned that
you could use stainless steel cooking pot,pans etc. that you might find at a
rummage sale as molds for slumping.

Jill
-----Original Message-----
From: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Saturday, October 30, 1999 2:34 PM
Subject: Travels with my kiln


>
>
>Well folks,
>
>This is it!!!
>
>
>My precious kiln, hand carried all the way from USA is now up and
>running! Wired into the electrical cooker supply,  2 doors away
>from my cottage,   my friend Jenny and I bought that property a few
>months back,  to convert to a larger Studio for both of us. She has
>got bitten by the glass-bug!       I blame YOU lot!!   ;->
>
>2 of my students - 1 a metal worker, the other an electrician -
>came along one evening and checked the kiln out for me,
>straightened out the hinge that got bent, , unbent other minor
>details for me (and were rewarded with dinner) and then presented
>me with a tin of pale coloured fire cement to patch up the minor
>external blemishes that the kiln had been subjected to during its
>long journey Across The Pond.
>
>The Kiln and I have had our first quite emotional acquaintance;  I
>followed the Spectrum Web-site guide-lines and had my first
>"fusing session" - simple stuff, nothing grand, just to get to know
>this little (or not so little) beauty.  So I will experiment for a while
>with fusing and slumping - before I attempt to fire anything painted.
>This is a totally different experience from what I was learning about
>kiln work 20 odd years ago - and much more fun.
>
>As regards slumping, which will be my next learning curve after
>playing about with fusing a bit more, I read about clay molds. On
>my first fusing session my other friend - Susan (the potter) - was
>with me.
>We discussed the possibility of making our own clay molds. She
>has researched the different clays and which ones would take the
>temperature that glass slumping would require.
>
>My question is, for glass  slumping AND when  making your own
>clay molds - how THICK should these molds be????
>
>Delores, many, many thanks for your earlier firing input! I will get
>back to you.
>
>Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK - having fun on a rainy autumn day
>
>
>----
>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
>----
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

----
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 30 14:06:39 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:Machiu@aol.com" <Machiu@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Looking for glass in Munich
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 14:46:10 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct30.104610.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by INTERNET:Machiu@aol.com
>
My husband has a wonderful opportunity to work in Munich for a year, so
we're =

going to pack up our lives here in Boston and head to Germany in January.=
  =

Does anyone know of any Stained Glass sights that I can't miss? <

There is stained glass everywhere in Germany, but
a must-not-miss is this:  About 100 kilometers north
of Munich is a town named Augsburg and in the =

Augsburg Cathedral is the oldest intact painted stained
glass in existence today..... these windows are in all
the history books.  Also in the area are the Frauenkirche
and the Ulmer Muenster.... magnificent both.  What a =

marvelous opportunity!  Why don't you stay in touch
with us and let us know the latest sights you've seen?
As far as apprenticing somewhere.... try the Franz Mayer
Studios.... I believe they are still headquartered in Munich.
And be prepared to do alot of cementing!  LOL.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 30 14:21:07 1999
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X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu
From: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Clay molds
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:51:39 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct30.55139.0>
Precedence: bulk

>>My question is, for glass  slumping AND when  making your own clay molds -
how THICK should these molds be????<<

One eight of an inch would be ideal and on the order of what professional
clay molds are. One quarter of an inch is alright and necessary for molds
greater than about 16"s in diameter.

The big thing is to have an even thickness throughout your clay mold- a mold
that is uneven in thickness will heat and cool unevenly and may thereby
yield poor results.

Remember that clay molds are to be slumped INTO and metal molds are to be
draped OVER- otherwise the mold may trap the work.

Clay molds for glass work need only be fired to bisk. The best clay will be
one with the lowest percentage of shrinkage. A well made and cared for clay
mold will last for at least hundreds of firings. They are most often lost
due to dropping or thermal shock.

Bob in SOCAL

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From owner-glass Sat Oct 30 18:16:06 1999
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Bob Duchesneau" <bobdu@prodigy.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Clay molds
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 20:11:35 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct30.161135.0>
Precedence: bulk

And, remember that clay fires at a *higher
temperature than glass you are slumping.
There is always confusion in this regard
because the lower the cone number, the
higher the firing temperature.  In fact, the
art chair at the state university just told me
he didn't think I would want the 6 foot coffin
kiln they are unloading because it only fired
to cone five!  <sigh>  Perfectly adequate for
glass work and we're going to go look at
it on Monday.... I hope it's exactly what we're
looking for.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 30 18:31:22 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "jazzykid" <jazzykid@tir.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Travels with my kiln
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 20:03:33 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct30.16333.0>
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Message text written by "jazzykid"
>Hi Elisabeth,

I took a fusing and slumping class this fall.  The instructor mentioned
that
you could use stainless steel cooking pot,pans etc. that you might find a=
t
a
rummage sale as molds for slumping.

Jill<

Hi everyone,

The first issue of the year 2000 Common Ground: Glass
will deal exclusively with Hot/Warm glass.... it comes out
in the Spring.  Email me off-bungi and I'll give you =

subscription information.... or it's included in the cost
of International Guild of Glass Artists membership.

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios

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From owner-glass Sat Oct 30 18:46:59 1999
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X-Path: juno.com!cald4him
From: Carla K Caldwell <cald4him@juno.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: re:bi-plane pattern
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 17:57:11 -0700
Message-ID: <1999Oct30.105711.0>
Precedence: bulk

We're new to this but I thought I would give this a try.  My 12 year old
son is in his second year of stained glass with 4-H and is looking for a
pattern of a bi-plane that he can make with copper foil.  It needs to be
a flat design.  I have looked at several web-sites hoping to find one but
had no luck.  Can somebody lead me in the right direction?  

I can receive e-mail at cald4him@juno.com and attachments can be sent to 
cald4him@netzero.net.

Thank you for your help.  Carla
___________________________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 30 19:14:55 1999
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Everyone <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Clay molds
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 21:29:53 -0400
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-------------Forwarded Message-----------------

From:	Dani Greer, INTERNET:GreerStudios@compuserve.com
To:	"Bob Duchesneau", INTERNET:bobdu@prodigy.net
	=

Date:	10/30/99  5:22 PM

RE:	Clay molds

And, remember that clay fires at a *higher
temperature than glass you are slumping.
There is always confusion in this regard
because the lower the cone number, the
higher the firing temperature.  In fact, the
art chair at the state university just told me
he didn't think I would want the 6 foot coffin
kiln they are unloading because it only fired
to cone five!  <sigh>  Perfectly adequate for
glass work and we're going to go look at
it on Monday.... I hope it's exactly what we're
looking for.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
----
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 30 19:53:35 1999
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From: ACASADO@webtv.net (Ali Casado)
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
Subject: What to Charge/Thanks
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 21:52:28 -0400 (EDT)
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I want to thank everyone for their in-put on what  and how to charge
this client. Also, how to carefully cut this unknown glass and protect
the iridized finish.  I got the distinct impression, that NO-ONE would
want this job.   I guess I'm a glutton for punishment.  It will be an
interesting project.  And, Dee, believe me, I will charge to make money,
or not do the job at all.  Mike, that is a good idea to cut a few
circles of heavily textured glass of my own, before taking on his
expensive glass.  What he wants to do with 40 circles, I haven't a clue,
some project he's working on.  He's one of these eccentric, very
creative, "Arteests" who works with all kinds of mediums in creating a
piece of work, (ceramic with glass, wood, crystals,etc.)Very interesting
guy.  

Ali :=)

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From owner-glass Sat Oct 30 20:59:48 1999
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X-Path: home.net!esavad
From: Mike Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: Carla K Caldwell <cald4him@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: bi-plane pattern
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 22:53:22 -0400
Message-ID: <1999Oct30.185322.0>
References: <<1999Oct30.105711.0>>
Organization: Mike's Stained Glass
Precedence: bulk

Carla K Caldwell wrote:
> 
> We're new to this but I thought I would give this a try.  My 12 year old
> son is in his second year of stained glass with 4-H and is looking for a
> pattern of a bi-plane that he can make with copper foil.  It needs to be
> a flat design.  I have looked at several web-sites hoping to find one but
> had no luck.  Can somebody lead me in the right direction?
> 
> I can receive e-mail at cald4him@juno.com and attachments can be sent to
> cald4him@netzero.net.
> 
> Thank you for your help.  Carla
> ___________________________________________________________________
> Get the Internet just the way you want it.
> Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
> Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


as a flat design it may not look like anything. i would modify a
bi-plane kaliedoscope design. it would require a bit of wire work
though. 


---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making
your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are
also a lot of new Sky City pictures.
----
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From owner-glass Sat Oct 30 21:29:56 1999
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X-Path: fastlane.net!byronw
From: "Byron Wells" <byronw@fastlane.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Blasting box
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 22:31:31 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Oct30.173131.0>
Precedence: bulk

Thanks for the info... Its an informative site... I noticed in some of the
pictures that he seems to be using some of the Harbor Freight pressure
blasters... They are only about $90... I bought one last year but never had
any time or room to try it out yet....

I also had forgotten about buying a set of blastbox plans,gloves etc from
Tip Tools last year(found the stuff today while moving stuff into the new
shop),must be early senility!! Believe I'll just build my own large box... I
have a small benchtop unit that works nicely with my siphon blaster for
small projects....

Byron...
Wells Glassworks
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Duchesneau <bobdu@prodigy.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>; Byron Wells <byronw@fastlane.net>
Date: Saturday, October 30, 1999 12:09 AM
Subject: Re: Blasting box

>That's right! Go to: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/6937/
>for all the info you need on building your own blasting cabinet. You'll be
>glad you did and able to celebrate by buying about 50 full sheets of glass.
>
>Bob in SOCAL
>

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From owner-glass Sat Oct 30 22:03:51 1999
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From: anzqdjqdhxosjgoj@hotbot.com
To: yaaghggxqepbbkfa@aol.com
Subject: Fantastic 14000 Dollars Opportunity                                                   nsjmo
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 99 12:32:47 +0800
Message-ID: <m11hmK2-0001tsC@daver.bungi.com>
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Dear Fellow Netter,

Want to make $500 next month and $1000 the month after that?

Join the Hottest Business Opportunity in the century.

This is the EASIEST and the BEST online business today. 

Virtually a SELF-RUN ONLINE BUSINESS. 

It's on the INTERNET! 
It's on NEWSPAPER! 
It's on the RADIO! 

It's TWICE voted as the #1 online business. 

You can make $10,000 per month in your SPARE time. 

No more working for the next 40 years. 

Just visit the web site below:
http://216.32.170.11/craftoids/wart44/lead.html

If busy try here:
http://3493332528

It only take a minute to find out and you'll be glad
you did.

Best Wishes,
Steve

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From owner-glass Sun Oct 31 01:29:41 1999
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From: anzqdjqdhxosjgoj@hotbot.com
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Subject: Fantastic 14000 Dollars Opportunity                                                   nsjmo
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 99 15:53:49 +0800
Message-ID: <m11hpSY-0002CVC@daver.bungi.com>
Precedence: bulk

Dear Fellow Netter,

Want to make $500 next month and $1000 the month after that?

Join the Hottest Business Opportunity in the century.

This is the EASIEST and the BEST online business today. 

Virtually a SELF-RUN ONLINE BUSINESS. 

It's on the INTERNET! 
It's on NEWSPAPER! 
It's on the RADIO! 

It's TWICE voted as the #1 online business. 

You can make $10,000 per month in your SPARE time. 

No more working for the next 40 years. 

Just visit the web site below:
http://216.32.170.11/craftoids/wart44/lead.html

If busy try here:
http://3493332528

It only take a minute to find out and you'll be glad
you did.

Best Wishes,
Steve

----
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From owner-glass Sun Oct 31 01:00:22 1999
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne Gunn <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: arts and ctafts malls online
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 01:50:47 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Oct30.205047.0>
Precedence: bulk

Someone asked about this not too long ago...

Here are some links you might check out.
http://www.artcraftmall.com/
http://directory.netscape.com/Shopping/Online_Malls/Craft_Malls

Maybe you will find something there that fits your needs.

Tulsa Suzanne
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From owner-glass Sun Oct 31 12:47:24 1999
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: UK glass news site
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 19:44:37 +0000
Message-ID: <1999Oct31.194437.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hello all UK bungians.
I have just stumbled across a site devoted to UK news, etc.

http://www.stainedglassnews.co.uk/

It is sometimes a bit slow in loading its pages, but worth a look.  I
don't know who is running it, as there is no ownership statement.  I
have my suspicions, but I wish the owners would stand up and name
themselves.

It might become a good site if people send information to them.

Steve
-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Sun Oct 31 18:58:29 1999
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From: "Mary B" <marybdaily@hotmail.com>
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Subject: Workshop Suggestions
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 21:06:39 EST
Message-ID: <1999Nov1.2639.0>
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I am in the process of revamping my sg workshop which is in the basement of 
my home. Currently I only have a 3x5 space with small countertop allocated 
to my sg and will be converting a corner of my basement which is 
approximately 6x10 into a workshop. I will need to build my own 
couter/pegboard and am on a limited budget; therefor, I need to get the most 
efficiency for every dollar spent.

Can anyone give me advice and/or suggest where I may find a materials list 
for a workbench-type design? Any assistance would very much be appreciated!

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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From owner-glass Sun Oct 31 23:55:14 1999
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X-Path: twinwolf.net!dimitrovich
From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" <dimitrovich@twinwolf.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Paperweights
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 21:40:00 -0500
Message-ID: <1999Oct31.16400.0>
Precedence: bulk

Questions...

I was just looking at some of Paul Stankard's work on the Internet and was
intrigued by the florals/botanicals, etc. suspended in his paperweights and
glass forms.

How are those made? My real question is how are those objects suspended in
the glass and not burned up? I've never seen these before and think they are
beautiful. I am always wondering how things are made when I see them.

Thanks,

Pamela


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From owner-glass Mon Nov  1 00:10:07 1999
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X-Path: fastlane.net!byronw
From: "Byron Wells" <byronw@fastlane.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Workshop Suggestions
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 22:15:09 -0600
Message-ID: <1999Oct31.16159.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Mary..
I just finished building a new shop and also built several new benches...My
old benches were just made out of 2x6 frames and a 3/4" hardwood plywood
top.... I always hated the 'bouncy' areas between the 2x6s tho... This time
I did the frames with 2x6 and 2x4s but I put plain old 3/4 plywood on it
then the 3/4 hardwood plywood on top of that... No bounce or anything now...
You could park a car on them...
I screwed the plain pine plywood to the frame then scewed the top piece on
from underneath so there are no screws on top to bend the horseshoe nails..

Byron...
Wells Glassworks

-----Original Message-----
From: Mary B <marybdaily@hotmail.com>
To: Glass@bungi.com <Glass@bungi.com>
Date: Sunday, October 31, 1999 9:07 PM
Subject: Workshop Suggestions


>I am in the process of revamping my sg workshop which is in the basement of
>my home. Currently I only have a 3x5 space with small countertop allocated
>to my sg and will be converting a corner of my basement which is
>approximately 6x10 into a workshop. I will need to build my own
>couter/pegboard and am on a limited budget; therefor, I need to get the
most
>efficiency for every dollar spent.
>
>Can anyone give me advice and/or suggest where I may find a materials list
>for a workbench-type design? Any assistance would very much be appreciated!
>
>______________________________________________________
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For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Mon Nov  1 00:23:42 1999
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com
	via smail with stdio
	id <m11iAfe-0001KPa@daver.bungi.com>
	for rglass-42; Sun, 31 Oct 1999 22:10:22 -0800 (PST)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: daehoair.co.kr!845145ld
From: 845145ld@daehoair.co.kr
To: 845145ld@daehoair.co.kr
Subject: Save up to 75% on International Calling
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 99 00:16:45 EST
Message-ID: <1999Nov1.51645.0>
Precedence: bulk

		Save Up To 75% on International Calling

..for residents inside AND outside the USA

Here is a sample of our rates To/From the USA:

Rates(US$)    COUNTRY

0.14/min.  Australia
0.23/min.  Brazil - Sao Paolo
0.12/min.  Canada
0.36/min.  China
0.14/min.  France
0.12/min.  Germany
0.10/min.  Hong Kong
0.14/min.  Japan - Tokyo
0.29/min.  Russia - Moscow
0.12/min.  UK

- Rates apply 24 hrs/day, 7 days per week
- NO sign-up fees, NO monthly fees, and NO surcharges
- Billing is in 6 second increments
- You DO NOT have to SWITCH your current provider
- Ideal for Home and Business
- For residents OUTSIDE the USA, we have INT'L CALLBACK

Agents Wanted Worldwide:	  

We are looking for agents worldwide to market our services. 
Attractive commissions!

Contact us for more information and complete rate table at:

			wend55@bigfoot.com

For service information, please type "info" in the subject line.

For agent information, please type "agent" in the subject line.
Please include your full name when requesting agent information.

Thank You!

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For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass