From owner-glass Wed Sep 1 07:05:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 06:20:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us!gonzalj From: Jim Gonzalez To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Notes from Patina seminar Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:36:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep1.53610.0> Precedence: bulk Here are my notes from Joe Porcelli's Saturday seminar on patina. Disclaimer: These are my notes from Joe's seminar. It's been over 25 years since I've sat in a college classroom and had to take notes and the papers I have in front of me prove it. They are covered with boxes and lines as well as writing that I'm having a hard time reading. Preface: Joe said many times that these are his methods/recommendations. If you are unsure of something test it first with a scrap piece. Joe was very candid and answered every question presented (there were quite a few). General: The following lists the ability of various metals used by SG artist to accept a patina (from worst to best): lead tin brass copper bronze This is why a 60/40 solder takes a patina better than 50/50. Safety note, Joe gave no additional safety warnings other then to say that all the chemicals he mentions are relatively safe (as well as relatively dangerous) but manufacturer safety recommendations should always be followed. Oxidation is the villain of patina, oxidized pieces yield unpredictable results (everyone is familiar with the white chalky powdery oxidation that appears on solder lines). It is best to patina right after soldering but if you can't Joe recommends that the cleaned/dry piece be placed in a plastic bag to protect it from oxidizing elements. If the piece becomes lightly oxidized Joe recommended cleaning with 0000 steel wool to remove the oxidation. For heavily oxidized pieces he recommends a chemical cleaner (Jax Metal Cleaner). Joe stressed many times that the process of applying a patina is a chemical reaction and any material other then the solder and patina could produce unexpected results. Joe recommends the following: 1. Use only a water soluble flux and water soluble patinas. 2. Clean with only water - no soaps or chemicals as they may leave a residual which could produce undesired results. I can't say how many times he said this. In response to every question on the subject he gave the same answer - Use water soluble flux; wash with water. Everyone asked him about this cleaning method or that chemical, but his response was always the same. Joe said to be careful with iridescent glass as fluxes/patinas could cause the glass to cloud as they react with the metals in the iridescent glass. If you have a piece that this has happened to, he suggests trying to cover the piece with a light coat of satin finish laquar - Use a high quality laquar. This might return the luster to the iridescent glass. Best to test with a piece of scrap glass before applying chemicals. Black Patina: Do NOT use Simichrome polish on pieces with black patina - it will remove the patina. Use a paste wax instead. If the black patina flakes off as it's being applied STOP. Clean up the piece using 0000 steel wool, wash and dry. Cut the patina with a little water to weaken the solution and apply. For a deeper black add a pinch of salt. You know those Italian cooks it's always a pinch of this and a pinch of that. Brown Patina: To get a brown patina Joe recommends that two patinas be layered (not mixed) as follows: 1. When finished soldering clean the piece with water and dry. 2. Apply a copper sulfate patina. 3. Wash with water and dry. 4. Cut a black patina 4 to 1 with water (4 parts patina/ 1 part water). 5. Apply cut black patina to darken the copper, when desired color is reached rinse with water. Green/Brown Patina: The commercial green patinas will only work on Copper and Bronze, to get a green patina we must first apply a copper coat to our piece. There are 2 ways to do this: 1. Electroplate - Take your cleaned piece to a metal plater and ask them to apply a 4 mil thickness of copper plating. Look in the yellow pages - he recommends someone who is use to working with antiques as they are more likely to recognize the one of a kind nature of Stained Glass art and provide the necessary precautions. Be careful with iridescent glass as the metal in the finish could cause the entire piece of iridescent glass to become plated. Test first. After plating apply the Green patina. Wash and dry. Mix 8oz of Brown patina with 1 tsp. white vinegar and apply to piece. When desired color is reached rinse and dry. 2. Chemical - This is a multi-step process that can be done in the shop or home. Joe recommends 3 products - Jax Copper Plating Solution, Jax Green Patina and Jax Brown Patina. The process is: a. Clean, rinse and dry the piece. b. Apply the Copper plating solution. When you are done it will look awful (a blotchy pink and copper color). Rinse and dry. c. Use 0000 steel wool to remove ALL the finish just applied. Return the piece to bare metal. Rinse and dry. d. Apply a second coat of Copper plating solution, the piece should look like a new penny when done. Rinse and dry. e. Apply the green patina, it could take 10 to 15 minutes for a color change. Stop when desired color is reached. Rinse and dry. f. Apply the Brown patina (without the vinegar described above). It could take 20 to 30 minutes to see color change. When desired color rinse and dry. Repeat as needed. g. Apply a light coat of high grade Semi-gloss laquar to seal color as it can be rubbed off. Wax and buff. That was about all from Saturday. I did not attend the seminar on Sunday but believe he did add some items to his talk. Jim ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 1 07:26:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 06:29:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us!gonzalj From: Jim Gonzalez To: Suzanne Gunn Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Joe Porcelli's patina workshop Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:45:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep1.54553.0> References: <<1999Aug31.123920.0>> Precedence: bulk Suzanne, See you also posted your notes and it looks like we agree. That's good, I was beginning to worry when I promised to send them and couldn't read my writing. I also posted the recipes he gave for brown and green/brown. Let us know if your notes indicate any differences. Jim ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 1 07:40:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 06:33:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!ACASADO From: ACASADO@webtv.net (ALI CASADO) To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Starfire Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:33:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep1.53310.0> Precedence: bulk Does anyone out there know what starfire is and how its used, and can it be fused? Someone a couple of weeks ago asked about it, but no one responded. They had mentioned that when fired it has a silver cast, but that was all. Evidently they did not know where to find it. I am always looking for the different and unusual. Thanks. Ali ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 1 08:09:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 07:22:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: Howard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: my post on "critiquing" Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 10:20:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep1.62036.0> References: <<1999Aug31.12423.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Howard wrote: > > Has it gone through? > sent it twice and I have not seen it return via the list? > weaver51@teleport.com > Elaine and Howard > best lamps on the "net": > http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it's on the list, i've seen this one and the other one. i guess you got misplaced... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 1 08:37:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 07:51:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Magnolia pattern Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:48:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep1.64847.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Rebecca Wickline" > Anybody know of a magnolia pattern? I have a window to do for a friend and I can't find a pattern in my collection. I'm going to make the trip out to the real world this weekend. the surgery has me housebound for now. Thanks for the help.< For a good magnolia blossoms (not the full flower) try "A Touch of Tiffany" by Patrice Lampton, published by Carolyn Kyle of CKE Publications. Nice flower book with good photographs. Christie Wood/Art Glass Ensembles 405 E. Walnut St. Rear North Wales, PA 19454 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 1 10:07:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:35:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie_Spitzer From: "Spitzer, Charlie" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: FW: Starfire Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:30:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep1.83039.0> Precedence: bulk i don't know if it's the same, but there's a canadian company that makes sheet glass for fish tanks that is called 'starfire'. it's an optically clear glass, unlike regular float glass which has a greenish tinge. about 2-3x the cost of regular float glass as i recall. regards, charlie phx, az -----Original Message----- From: ACASADO@webtv.net [mailto:ACASADO@webtv.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 6:33 AM To: Glass@bungi.com Subject: Starfire Does anyone out there know what starfire is and how its used, and can it be fused? Someone a couple of weeks ago asked about it, but no one responded. They had mentioned that when fired it has a silver cast, but that was all. Evidently they did not know where to find it. I am always looking for the different and unusual. Thanks. Ali ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 1 14:09:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:44:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mtcon.net!shigbee From: "Shari" To: "Bungi" Subject: Fw: Notes from Patina seminar Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:55:40 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Sep1.75540.0> Precedence: bulk I'll post this to the list to see if anyone has any additional input on Jax copper plating... p.s. Thanks again to Jim for posting his notes for us unlucky souls who didn't make Glass Visions. Shari ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Gonzalez To: Shari Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 11:49 AM Subject: Re: Notes from Patina seminar > On Wed, 1 Sep 1999, Shari wrote: > > Jim: Thanks so much for your work to post this info for un unlucky souls who > > couldn't make Glass Visions. I have a question and wonder if it was > > addressed... I was recently told to use Jax copper plating for all my copper > > patinas because it's much better. Does it always take 2 tries? One that > > turns out really ugly and then you steel wool it off and do it again and > > then it turns out great? > > Shari in SLC > Shari, > You are very welcome, glad I could do something for those unable to > attend. I've never tried it but Joe made it sound like that was the case. > I seem to remember him saying that the Jax Copper Plating has hydorchloric > acid in it that helps the patina to penerate into the solder. > Sorry I couldn't be more helpful. Perhaps a post to the group asking > about Jax Copper Plating may yield some information. > > I just did a quick scan of my bungi archives and found only one reference. > An email from Mike S who said it was very difficult to put on, but once > on, it stays for a very long time. > > Hope this helps, > Jim > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 1 15:11:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:25:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne Gunn To: Shari Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Fw: Notes from Patina seminar Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 16:19:09 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep1.11199.0> References: <<1999Sep1.75540.0>> Precedence: bulk I wrote in my notes it is sulfuric acid. ;o) Suzanne > I seem to remember him saying that the Jax Copper Plating has hydorchloric > > acid in it that helps the patina to penerate into the solder. > > Sorry I couldn't be more helpful. Perhaps a post to the group asking > > about Jax Copper Plating may yield some information. -- Suzanne ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Choosing is only difficult for those with imagination ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 1 15:38:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:27:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne Gunn To: Shari , glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Fw: Notes from Patina seminar Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 16:20:48 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep1.112048.0> References: <<1999Sep1.75540.0>> Precedence: bulk Shari, Joe said 2 times. First time it will *always* look awful. > I was recently told to use Jax copper plating for all my > copper > > > patinas because it's much better. Does it always take 2 tries? One that > > > turns out really ugly and then you steel wool it off and do it again and > > > then it turns out great? -- Suzanne ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Choosing is only difficult for those with imagination ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 1 15:45:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:47:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: heesun.com!keane From: "Robert & Jeanne" To: "Shari" , "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Notes from Patina seminar Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:38:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep1.133844.0> Precedence: bulk Here's what is written on the bottle as far as chemical makeup JAX Copper Plating Solution : Contains Copper Sulfate and Sulfuric Acid. For the most part the majority of our patinas that we use are JAX......they cost a bit more but are well worth the money. As far as application we have never had a problem applying it. Clean the solder well with 0000 steel wool or the white "glass safe" scotchbrite pads and patina away. Robert Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd. http://www.heesun.com Custom Design Studio, Supplies & Classes for Stained & Fused Glass & Mosaics -----Original Message----- From: Shari To: Bungi Date: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 5:16 PM Subject: Fw: Notes from Patina seminar >I'll post this to the list to see if anyone has any additional input on Jax >copper plating... > >p.s. Thanks again to Jim for posting his notes for us unlucky souls who >didn't make Glass Visions. >Shari > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Jim Gonzalez >To: Shari >Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 11:49 AM >Subject: Re: Notes from Patina seminar > > >> On Wed, 1 Sep 1999, Shari wrote: >> > Jim: Thanks so much for your work to post this info for un unlucky souls >who >> > couldn't make Glass Visions. I have a question and wonder if it was >> > addressed... I was recently told to use Jax copper plating for all my >copper >> > patinas because it's much better. Does it always take 2 tries? One that >> > turns out really ugly and then you steel wool it off and do it again and >> > then it turns out great? >> > Shari in SLC >> Shari, >> You are very welcome, glad I could do something for those unable to >> attend. I've never tried it but Joe made it sound like that was the case. >> I seem to remember him saying that the Jax Copper Plating has hydorchloric >> acid in it that helps the patina to penerate into the solder. >> Sorry I couldn't be more helpful. Perhaps a post to the group asking >> about Jax Copper Plating may yield some information. >> >> I just did a quick scan of my bungi archives and found only one reference. >> An email from Mike S who said it was very difficult to put on, but once >> on, it stays for a very long time. >> >> Hope this helps, >> Jim >> >> > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 1 16:10:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:34:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: There here! Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 18:31:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep1.143123.0> Precedence: bulk Well, Elisabeth and friend, Jenny have arrived safely, have been installed in their little cottage next to mine, and we're giving serious consideration to "what's for dinner"! Recognized E. immediately and even without the Viking helmet! We haven't found a suitable gift to add to the Viking attire (we felt metal breast-plates were perhaps a bit much!), but did manage to find some Scullsplitter ale direct from = the Orkneys which you'll recall from your history lessons was inhabited by the Vikings. Be forewarned.... they have heavy suitcases! Other than that, plan on having a blast!! Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 1 16:25:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:39:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Candy shop Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 18:24:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep1.142436.0> Precedence: bulk Well, I am like a kid in a candy shop, unwrapping ALL the glass and wondering where to start. Also adding some one and two inch square bevels to the bits from the bevel cluster (no, I really don't know what it was, but I'd bet a flower of some kind...explanation: Stuart Goldman did a seminar at Glass visions on using Bevel Clusters in different ways. I was one of the luckiest volunteers. I got to hug Goldman and I got to bring my bevel cluster home)...adding bevels to make a couple of small panels and maybe a clock. Have to design a clock anyway! Thank you to the Warners. Ignore Pierre's insinuations. Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 1 16:39:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:52:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Fw: Notes from Patina seminar Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 18:51:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep1.145141.0> References: <<1999Sep1.75540.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Shari wrote: > > I'll post this to the list to see if anyone has any additional input on Jax > copper plating... > > p.s. Thanks again to Jim for posting his notes for us unlucky souls who > didn't make Glass Visions. > Shari > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim Gonzalez > To: Shari > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 11:49 AM > Subject: Re: Notes from Patina seminar > > > On Wed, 1 Sep 1999, Shari wrote: > > > Jim: Thanks so much for your work to post this info for un unlucky souls > who > > > couldn't make Glass Visions. I have a question and wonder if it was > > > addressed... I was recently told to use Jax copper plating for all my > copper > > > patinas because it's much better. Does it always take 2 tries? One that > > > turns out really ugly and then you steel wool it off and do it again and > > > then it turns out great? > > > Shari in SLC > > Shari, > > You are very welcome, glad I could do something for those unable to > > attend. I've never tried it but Joe made it sound like that was the case. > > I seem to remember him saying that the Jax Copper Plating has hydorchloric > > acid in it that helps the patina to penerate into the solder. > > Sorry I couldn't be more helpful. Perhaps a post to the group asking > > about Jax Copper Plating may yield some information. > > > > I just did a quick scan of my bungi archives and found only one reference. > > An email from Mike S who said it was very difficult to put on, but once > > on, it stays for a very long time. > > > > Hope this helps, > > Jim > > > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass yeah, jax is a real pain to apply. it's very picky. the surface needs to be very clean. i've been thinking over the reason why you would need to apply it twice, and it finally occured to me why. the patina contains the nasty acid, maybe the acid is cleaning the solder. i found using denatured alchohol gives me a good finish (to clean off the surface). i'll have to try the tricks with the green patina. not quite sure if i have apply the brown patina with the green. or if it'll work with just the green. the last time i tried it with just the green was with the japanese garden. the surface wasn't clean enough, and nothing took. the green patina turned kind of white. but i left it, because it still looked pretty good. the best thing about using jax is that it says shiney. i have a project that must be at least 7 years old. it still looks like copper, as it ages it turns red. inland patina turns brown or black over time. the worst things about jax, is the price, and how dangerous it is to use. hydrachloric acid is nasty, you need a respirator to use it safely. gloves and so forth are also needed. ..not pretty. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 1 16:53:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:09:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: NG? Glass Visions Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:26:45 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <199909012227.RAA28737@relay.acns.nwu.edu> Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk Just an FYI to let y'all know I made it home safely. Stopped off in Connellsville to drop a few more $$. (After having seen the factories at Kokomo and Spectrum, I find it almost impossible to believe that Youghiogheny can make their beautiful product in such a small space!) Also made a side trip to see some Tiffany lamps at the Ruthmere mansion in Indiana. Can't add much to the praises already stated for Glass Visions. It was truly a wonderful weekend and Marianne and Charles deserve all the credit. I probably would never have considered the trip if it hadn't been for their bringing Elisabeth (and the subsequent E-Tour hype). Now that I know about the great sale prices and the terrific workshops, I'll be wanting to go every year. (One suggestion for next year: please see what you can do about requisitioning cooler :- ) weather!) It was great meeting bungis. Ordinarily I'd be uncomfortable and shy at this kind of thing (unlike a certain person from Tulsa). But with Bungi and the love of glass in common, it was easy to feel at home with the group. Everyone was so friendly and interesting (in spite of mostly NOT being what I'd pictured they'd look like). Let's see how many more bungis we can "unmask" next year! Kaye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 1 17:08:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:34:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Fw: Notes from Patina seminar Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 19:33:34 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep1.153334.0> References: <<1999Sep1.11199.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Suzanne Gunn wrote: > > I wrote in my notes it is sulfuric acid. ;o) > Suzanne > > > I seem to remember him saying that the Jax Copper Plating has hydorchloric > > > acid in it that helps the patina to penerate into the solder. > > > Sorry I couldn't be more helpful. Perhaps a post to the group asking > > > about Jax Copper Plating may yield some information. > > -- > Suzanne > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Choosing is only difficult > for those with imagination > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i just checked my bottles, copper has the sulfuric (like that's any better). and the pewter has the hydrochloric. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 1 17:40:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:41:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Fw: Notes from Patina seminar Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 19:39:35 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep1.153935.0> References: <<1999Sep1.112048.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Suzanne Gunn wrote: > > Shari, > > Joe said 2 times. First time it will *always* look awful. > > > I was recently told to use Jax copper plating for all my > > copper > > > > patinas because it's much better. Does it always take 2 tries? One that > > > > turns out really ugly and then you steel wool it off and do it again and > > > > then it turns out great? > > -- > Suzanne > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Choosing is only difficult > for those with imagination > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass did he mention letting it soak onto the solder? it sounds like the acid is etching the metal until it finds something to grab onto. i know when i soak something it comes out shiney. though it tends to use quite a bit up. the sky city dome - i soaked sheets of paper towel with the patina. layed the soaked towels on the surface and just let it sit. i squished the wet towel into the solder to give it some bite. it was the only way, most of the solder was to oxidized... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 1 17:56:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:08:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne Gunn To: Kaye Sodt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG? Glass Visions Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 19:10:12 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep1.141012.0> References: <<199909012227.RAA28737@relay.acns.nwu.edu>> Precedence: bulk Im still waiting to the meet the "Fonz" ;o) and Sparks flaming red hair... Emeraldine and Pierre were certainly as expected. Whew! Some one told me they were really disapointed I didnt show up in that miniskirt and boots. rofl..were they a glutton for punishment or what? > Everyone was so friendly and interesting (in > spite of mostly NOT being what I'd pictured they'd look like). Let's > see how many more bungis we can "unmask" next year! -- Suzanne ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Choosing is only difficult for those with imagination ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 1 20:13:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 19:18:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: go.com!the_wright_light From: wright To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Subject: Re:Glass Visions Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 19:14:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep1.121435.0> Precedence: bulk Had a wonderful vacation and learned so much. Started out at Falling Water which is falling and not a lot of water flowing. Went to Connelsville to factory and shop and dropped a bundle but should have gotten more. Next to shop is a glass blowing studio where we watched a couple artists. Next was a week at the grandkids with a visit to Curtis Publishing and Tiffany mosiac. It was breath taking! There were 100,000 pieces of glass. Then to Glass Visions and met some nice people and learned so much from vendors and workshops. I really learned alot from the man at the Morton table like how to cut inside curves a lot easier. We have had the system for many years but didn't know how to use it right. Now I have to practice to get the tight curves he did. My husband carries around a tape player so we have the workshops we went to on tape. We also won a crate of glass that took 4 guys to get in car. My husband and I had to unlode it at our sons and cut off bottom to get trunk shut. We then stopped at Corning on way home and spent 4 hours there and still didn't get to spend enough time in museum. Thanks to all who made GV such a success and to Elizebeth for listening to all my husbands questions. Also it was nice to visit Christys shop and see the famous Pigs. Maggie in Michigan the_wright_light@g0.com ________________________________________________________ ____ Get your Free GO Network Email address at http://mail.go.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 1 21:43:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 21:01:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne Gunn To: Mike Savad Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Fw: Notes from Patina seminar Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 23:03:20 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep1.18320.0> References: <<1999Sep1.153935.0>> Precedence: bulk > did he mention letting it soak onto the solder? No, he stressed Clean, Clean, Clean, rinse, rinse, rinse, patina...then wax. If Joe had a bumper sticker it would say "Fight Oxidation" :o) -- Suzanne ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Choosing is only difficult for those with imagination ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 1 23:40:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:51:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Glass Visions pictures Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 22:49:06 -0700 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990901224906.0097a100@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> Precedence: bulk Brenda Marhon took pictures at Glass Visions and generously offered to share them with the group. I've uploaded them to http://www.villagesoftsmith.com/glass_visions. At that location, you'll also find a captions file so you don't have to guess who's who! (If I misidentified anyone, most humble apologies and let me know ASAP.) Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 2 00:13:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 23:24:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tir.com!jazzykid From: "jazzykid" To: "ALI CASADO" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Starfire Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 02:23:38 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep1.222338.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Ali, I know a stained glass studio close by in another town uses it for making their own bevels. There, really is a sparkling and shiny difference between their bevels and some of the others bevels that I have seen for sale commercially. Where they get the glass I have no idea. But, they said that they loved it and it great to work with. Jill Next time I'm over that way I'll stop in an ask. Sometimes, they give helpful hints and other times...ah...that's a secret. So cross your fingers. -----Original Message----- From: ALI CASADO To: Glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 11:00 AM Subject: Starfire >Does anyone out there know what starfire is and how its used, and can it >be fused? >Someone a couple of weeks ago asked about it, but no one responded. >They had mentioned that when fired it has a silver cast, but that was >all. >Evidently they did not know where to find it. >I am always looking for the different and unusual. >Thanks. >Ali > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 2 06:47:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 06:15:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!ACASADO From: ACASADO@webtv.net (ALI CASADO) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Glass Visions Pictures Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:14:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep2.51431.0> Precedence: bulk Steve, The pictures are wonderful. What technology!!!! I'm a new bungian, and thrilled to death to be here. I'm meeting so many neat and knowledgeable people that really want to help each other. I had several people from the Uk. send me messages saying that didn't necessarily have the answers I needed, but they just wanted to wish me luck in finding the answers I needed. I had another person (Steve), from the Uk.that was very knowledgeable, and gave me a ton of info. I am so proud to be part of the bungi family, and hope to meet you next year at Glass Visions. Ali ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 2 07:15:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 06:03:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Fw: Notes from Patina seminar Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:03:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep2.5314.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Shari" >I was recently told to use Jax copper plating for all my copper patinas because it's much better. Does it always take 2 tries? One= that turns out really ugly and then you steel wool it off and do it again and then it turns out great?< I tried a single coat of Jax Copper Plating Solution and it did just as Joe said it would...it was very splotchy and quite yucky looking. Silly me didn't know to steel wool and do it again. Now I will. Christie Wood/Art Glass Ensembles 405 E. Walnut St. Rear North Wales, PA 19454 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 2 08:16:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 07:22:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mtcon.net!shigbee From: "Shari" To: "Bungi" Subject: Re: Jax Patina Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:33:58 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Sep2.23358.0> References: <<1999Sep1.153935.0>> Precedence: bulk > did he mention letting it soak onto the solder? it sounds like the acid > is etching the metal until it finds something to grab onto. i know when > i soak something it comes out shiney. though it tends to use quite a bit > up. the sky city dome - i soaked sheets of paper towel with the patina. > layed the soaked towels on the surface and just let it sit. i squished > the wet towel into the solder to give it some bite. it was the only way, > most of the solder was to oxidized... > > ---Mike Savad > I had a small panel to repair last night, so I scrubbed off the original copper patina and tried the Jax for the first time. It seems to work better if you "scrub" it into the solder. I used a new flux brush and where I lightly brushed the patina on the solder and let it just sit, it didn't do anything, but when I went back over it and brushed fairly hard over and over, the copper took hold. The more brushing, the better the patina. It is a little pinkish compared to the other copper patina I've used. I'm interested to see it turning red, as Mike S. says, over time. Shari ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 2 09:16:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:40:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Jax Patina Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 11:31:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep2.73159.0> References: <<1999Sep2.23358.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Shari wrote: > > > did he mention letting it soak onto the solder? it sounds like the acid > > is etching the metal until it finds something to grab onto. i know when > > i soak something it comes out shiney. though it tends to use quite a bit > > up. the sky city dome - i soaked sheets of paper towel with the patina. > > layed the soaked towels on the surface and just let it sit. i squished > > the wet towel into the solder to give it some bite. it was the only way, > > most of the solder was to oxidized... > > > > ---Mike Savad > > > > I had a small panel to repair last night, so I scrubbed off the original > copper patina and tried the Jax for the first time. It seems to work better > if you "scrub" it into the solder. I used a new flux brush and where I > lightly brushed the patina on the solder and let it just sit, it didn't do > anything, but when I went back over it and brushed fairly hard over and > over, the copper took hold. The more brushing, the better the patina. > > It is a little pinkish compared to the other copper patina I've used. I'm > interested to see it turning red, as Mike S. says, over time. > > Shari > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it must be the acid in it. it's not quite red, but it's more of a copper red. in either case it lasts longer then other patina's. don't know if it's any more durable though. like if used on a light switch, i don't know how long it would take to wear off. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 2 09:39:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:43:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: heesun.com!keane From: "Robert & Jeanne" To: "Shari" , "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Jax Patina Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:38:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep2.73810.0> Precedence: bulk We use cotton balls to apply the JAX and we lightly scrub it into the solder and this leaves a nice coppery finish no splotches, just make sure the solder lines are clean, scrub them well to ensure all oxidation is removed. Also as the cotton ball gets dirty replace it with a new one. If you want to use the flux brush try cutting the bristles so they're not so long, this will give you a better scrubbing ability. Robert Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd. 888-508-5595 http://www.heesun.com Custom Design Studio , Supplies & Classes for Stained & Fused Glass & Mosaics -----Original Message----- From: Shari To: Bungi Date: Thursday, September 02, 1999 11:24 AM Subject: Re: Jax Patina >I had a small panel to repair last night, so I scrubbed off the original >copper patina and tried the Jax for the first time. It seems to work better >if you "scrub" it into the solder. I used a new flux brush and where I >lightly brushed the patina on the solder and let it just sit, it didn't do >anything, but when I went back over it and brushed fairly hard over and >over, the copper took hold. The more brushing, the better the patina. > >It is a little pinkish compared to the other copper patina I've used. I'm >interested to see it turning red, as Mike S. says, over time. > >Shari > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 2 11:45:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:05:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!ACASADO From: ACASADO@webtv.net (ALI CASADO) To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: mold for glass menorah Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 14:02:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep2.10234.0> Precedence: bulk Does anyone know if there is a mold for slumping a glass menorah. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 2 12:47:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:08:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie_Spitzer From: "Spitzer, Charlie" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: mold for glass menorah Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:02:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep2.11226.0> Precedence: bulk don't know, but there is a multipage article on all sorts of different jewish religious art pieces in a recent glass craftsman magazine. i was just reading it last night, but i'm about 4 months behind on my periodical pile. it's not yet on their web site (http://www.glasscraftsman.com) so i'd guess it's in the recent aug/sept issue. regards, charlie phx, az > -----Original Message----- > From: ACASADO@webtv.net [mailto:ACASADO@webtv.net] > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 11:03 AM > To: Glass@bungi.com > Subject: mold for glass menorah > > > Does anyone know if there is a mold for slumping a glass menorah. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 2 13:17:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:32:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: heesun.com!keane From: "Robert & Jeanne" To: "ALI CASADO" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: mold for glass menorah Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:26:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep2.11268.0> Precedence: bulk I don't remember seeing one but you can always make your own with a product like Hydroperm or have a potter make one out of bisque. We get a lot of our molds from a local potter. We simply meander through her bisque that she has, then drill a vent hole or two coat with kiln wash and fire away. I have quite a few molds with 20 - 30 firings and still no cracks, and the cost is great. There are also several fiber blanket products that you can use, like Moist pack, or Fiber blanket with fiber mold hardener. In a pinch we have even slumped into molds made out of plain old Plaster of Paris. You might want to check out The Fused Glass Handbook by Gil Reynolds or Kiln Firing Glass by Boyce Lundstrom both are excellent books. Hope this helps. Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd. 888-508-5595 keane@heesun.com http://www.heesun.com Custom Design Studio , Supplies & Classes for Stained & Fused Glass & Mosaics -----Original Message----- From: ALI CASADO To: Glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, September 02, 1999 2:53 PM Subject: mold for glass menorah >Does anyone know if there is a mold for slumping a glass menorah. > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 2 14:53:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:59:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!christkaiser From: Chris Kaiser To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Bisque Molds omg! =) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:56:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep2.65630.0> Precedence: bulk Ok, I am suddenly very very excited! We moved into a house with a complete ceramic studio including hundreds of bique molds! I had no idea I could cast glass in them. I am an absolute complete newbie in this area. Keeping this in mind, can anyone suggest a book for me to get, or better yet, steer me towards a good studio that offers courses near Berkeley. I wanted to look into slumping and fusing, and had done lots of reading up on the web, but this adds a whole new facet to it! Thanks, Chris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 2 17:03:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:08:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: heesun.com!keane From: "Robert & Jeanne" To: "Chris Kaiser" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Bisque Molds omg! =) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:03:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep2.15323.0> Precedence: bulk I don't know about casting glass into bisque molds as they are extremely susceptible to thermal shock but I do know that slumping into them works just fine. Robert Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd. 888-508-5595 keane@heesun.com http://www.heesun.com Custom Design Studio , Supplies & Classes for Stained & Fused Glass & Mosaics ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 2 17:25:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:30:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!ACASADO From: ACASADO@webtv.net (ALI CASADO) To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: stainless steel former Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:29:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep2.152953.0> Precedence: bulk I was told to heat the floral former in order that the kiln wash will adhere without rolling down the sides. I did this, but it needs at least one or two more coats. Do I reheat the mold after every coat? I tried to put a second coat without heating it and it took it, but not too well. Ali ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 2 18:22:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:47:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Glass Visions pictures Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:43:47 -0400 Message-ID: <199909030042.UAA23984@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 9/2/99 1:49 AM Steve Wernecke steve@villagesoftsmith.com Brenda and Steve, Thanks for the great pictures. Particularly loved the one with Tulsa Suzanne and Bob Oddy. Some people have all the luck! You got everybody right. Suzanne A. >Brenda Marhon took pictures at Glass Visions and generously offered to >share them with the group. I've uploaded them to >http://www.villagesoftsmith.com/glass_visions. At that location, you'll >also find a captions file so you don't have to guess who's who! (If I >misidentified anyone, most humble apologies and let me know ASAP.) > >Steve >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > suzanne albright suzy@comcat.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 2 19:59:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:56:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: heesun.com!keane From: "Robert & Jeanne" To: "ALI CASADO" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: stainless steel former Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 21:51:13 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep2.175113.0> Precedence: bulk Yes continue to reheat and apply the kiln wash until you have a good coating on the mold. We like to use an airbrush to apply the kilnwash as it tends to apply a much smoother and uniform coating. Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd. 888-508-5595 http://www.heesun.com Custom Design Studio Supplies & Classes for Stained & Fused Glass & Mosaics -----Original Message----- From: ALI CASADO To: Glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, September 02, 1999 8:31 PM Subject: stainless steel former >I was told to heat the floral former in order that the kiln wash will >adhere without rolling down the sides. >I did this, but it needs at least one or two more coats. Do I reheat >the mold after every coat? >I tried to put a second coat without heating it and it took it, but >not too well. >Ali > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 2 20:16:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:59:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary From: Hilary To: Steve Wernecke Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Glass Visions pictures Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 22:05:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep2.1855.0> References: <<3.0.3.32.19990901224906.0097a100@mail.villagesoftsmith.com>> Precedence: bulk What a treat to get the pictures from Glass Visions! I am so sorry that I had to miss the party, not to mention the sale! Life was very crowded that weekend. Thanks for posting them! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 2 20:27:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:04:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne Gunn To: "suzy@comcat.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Glass Visions pictures with Bob Oddy ;o) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 21:06:28 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep2.16628.0> References: <<199909030042.UAA23984@uz.ComCAT.COM>> Precedence: bulk lol...some girls have all the luck! :o) You wouldn't believe the mail I've gotten..saying just that! ;o) Luck doesnt just happen! I grabbed that man! :o) And said "Take it quick before he gets away!" :o) T Suz > Brenda and Steve, > > Thanks for the great pictures. Particularly loved the one with Tulsa > Suzanne and Bob Oddy. Some people have all the luck! You got everybody > right. > Suzanne A. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 2 22:01:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 21:23:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: iconn.net!tbyrnes From: Tim Byrnes To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Thanks for the pictures Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 00:24:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep2.202417.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Steve, Thanks for the pictures, and captions now I have a better idea of who's who. I wish I had meet alot more of you folks. Well now it's time to work, work my nimble fingers to the bone, so I can have a showing and sale around the 1st. of Dec. here on Pine Street. Peace to all, Tim Byrnes ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 3 09:13:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:04:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!morgan0789 From: Morgan Stewart To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: creative block Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:03:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep3.1325.0> Precedence: bulk Hello everyone... My name is Morgan and I've been lurking for a while now. :) I hope someone has some helpful advice for my problem. I've been doing glass for over 10 years but for about the last 6 months or so I've run into a sort of "creative block." I can't come up with ideas and I have no motivation to create. It's driving me nuts. Do any of you ever have this happen? Got any tips to help combat this problem? Help help help! Morgan Glass, Etc. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 3 09:31:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:13:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: MIT.EDU!mmancuso From: marc mancuso To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: "Wholeo" is a 14-foot diameter SG dome Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:12:14 -0400 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Hi all, I came across this amazing bit of SG art. "Wholeo" is a 14-foot diameter SG dome. Follow the link to pictures and information. Have a colorful labor day holiday, everyone! http://www.sito.org/exhibits/wholeo/index.html Enjoy, Marc Marc Mancuso Senior Staff Assistant Publishing Services Bureau email: mmancuso@mit.edu phone: 617.258.9380 fax: 617.258.9390 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 3 10:27:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:55:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!dro From: "Daniel" To: "Morgan Stewart" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: creative block Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:58:28 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep3.25828.0> Precedence: bulk "creative block." I can't come up with ideas and I have no >motivation to create. It's driving me nuts. Do any of you ever have >this happen? Got any tips to help combat this problem? Help help >help! > >Morgan >Glass, Etc. ==================================================== Try to get a copy of "The Artist's Way" by Julia Cameron. This book is a wonderful way to deal with just that...and a lot more. There is usually an ongoing maillist and discussion group via the net... do a search for it. Daniel in Oregon ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 3 10:44:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:57:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: combining copperfoil and lead Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:56:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep3.8563.0> Precedence: bulk -------------Forwarded Message----------------- From: INTERNET:jsloan@vgernet.net, INTERNET:jsloan@vgernet.net To: Dani Greer, GreerStudios = Date: 9/3/99 2:27 AM RE: RE: combining copperfoil and lead = There's nothing wrong with waxing stained glass, particularly for a = window someone wants to display in their home. It won't hurt = anything. As with waxing anything, you've got to watch out for = build-up, and cleaning off the build-up would be a pain, but could be = done with ammonia, water, and picks. There's no benefit to waxing = panels to be installed in an architectural setting. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Julie L. Sloan, Vice-president Cummings Stained Glass Studios, Inc. PO Box 427, North Adams, MA 01247 (413) 664-6578; fax (413) 664-6570 ----------------------- Internet Header -------------------------------- Sender: jsloan@vgernet.net Received: from vger.vgernet.net (vgernet.net [205.219.186.1]) by spamgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.3) with ESMTP id FAA18171 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 05:27:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from julie (3com160.vgernet.net [140.186.115.160]) by vger.vgernet.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA27437 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 06:15:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909031015.GAA27437@vger.vgernet.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Julie L. Sloan" To: Dani Greer Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 05:13:27 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=3DUS-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: combining copperfoil and lead Reply-to: jsloan@vgernet.net Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 3 10:55:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:03:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: Morgan Stewart Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: creative block Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 13:02:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep3.9239.0> References: <<1999Sep3.1325.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Morgan Stewart wrote: > > Hello everyone... > > My name is Morgan and I've been lurking for a while now. :) I hope > someone has some helpful advice for my problem. I've been doing glass > for over 10 years but for about the last 6 months or so I've run into a > sort of "creative block." I can't come up with ideas and I have no > motivation to create. It's driving me nuts. Do any of you ever have > this happen? Got any tips to help combat this problem? Help help > help! > > Morgan > Glass, Etc. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass a block is simply telling you your mind wants to rest and take a break. to clear it, look around. if you make 3-d stuff - make random sketches of 3-d things, or think how you would build it. for panels - look around outside, in books and so forth for ideas and inspirations... or of couse you can visit my site at http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/ - not to boast, but many people have said that my work inspired them to either build stuff, or re-start stained glass. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 3 11:01:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:40:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netins.net!sae From: Scott Evans To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: creative block Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 11:32:36 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep3.63236.0> Precedence: bulk What I've always tried when coming up against that dreaded creative block is to try something totally new. When I was having a hard time coming up with a while ago, I decided to try doing a 3-d piece (a church) which turned out very nice. To be honest, it didn't really help with my creative block elsewhere, but it did help focus me in the hobby for a while. Scott ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 3 11:08:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:49:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: "Modiano, Victor" To: 'bungi' , 'Morgan Stewart' Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: creative block Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:27:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep3.82747.0> Precedence: bulk Morgan My first suggestion is stop lurking. Helping other bungians may get things going again. Kinda like listening to the waterfall and then looking for a bathroom. If you had sent this a month ago I'd have recommend a trip to Glass Visions. If the show didn't get the creative juices going the lunatics at breakfast would have. You may also want try some less challenging stuff. Make a bunch of sun catchers for Christmas gifts. Or even for Halloween. Try something different. Maybe one of the lead castings Warner Crivellaro offers; or a stepping stone, or a mosaic or any of the other things mentioned in this group. Realize not every piece needs to be a creative masterpiece and a step up from the last one. Sometimes it is fun to go back and do things you've done before. I redid my first piece about 5 years ago. What took four weeks the first time took a couple of days the second. Finally, and hopefully you've done this already, look at what is going on in your life. Is this just a problem with glass or reflective of the direction your life is currently taking. Is your health OK? How about the people you are close to? Happy at work? Remember that anything creative reflects our attitude as a whole not just how we feel about a craft. Vic M. vmodian@ctronsoft.com -----Original Message----- From: Morgan Stewart [mailto:morgan0789@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 11:03 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: creative block Hello everyone... My name is Morgan and I've been lurking for a while now. :) I hope someone has some helpful advice for my problem. I've been doing glass for over 10 years but for about the last 6 months or so I've run into a sort of "creative block." I can't come up with ideas and I have no motivation to create. It's driving me nuts. Do any of you ever have this happen? Got any tips to help combat this problem? Help help help! Morgan Glass, Etc. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 3 11:56:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:11:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!ACASADO From: ACASADO@webtv.net (ALI CASADO) To: glass@bungi.com (Morgan) Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Creative Block Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 14:07:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep3.10739.0> Precedence: bulk Morgan, Everyone at one time or another has creative block or "Burn-out". What area of the glass have you been doing? Maybe another area of the glass industry. There are so many different and exciting areas ie. fusing, slumping, hotglass, etc. Good luck, and if you have any questions, just Email . Ali ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 3 12:27:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:58:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne Gunn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: creative block Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 13:56:56 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep3.85656.0> References: <<1999Sep3.9239.0>> Precedence: bulk Im not sure exactly what you mean. You just dont feel like messing with glass? Or you arent coming up with any ideas that excite you? I would suggest if it is just a matter of not coming up with ideas...visit a museum, listen to music that moves you, look at beautiful things and think about how you can express that in glass. Keep a drawing pad, pencil and good eraser nearby. Just start drawing. Having just returned from Glass Visions, meeting people I really enjoyed, seeing soooooo much glass all in one spot, getting really excited, I've had a couple of dreams that have been all about glass in one way or another. Although I havent been able to remember the dreams in any kind of detail, they have left me with sort of abstract ideas. For the last two days, I have barely touched glass, but have spent alot of time with pencil in hand trying to get the feeling on paper before I lose it altogether. One dream I had was like an erotic glass dance. Way cool. ;o) Would have been the perfect dream for a hot glass person. Since Im not that.. Im working on making it flat. Still with pencil in hand...waiting for Mr. UPS man. I bet he wonders what's in those boxes, I'm always so happy to see him. Kicking myself that I only bought 5 sheets of yough. Should have bought twice that. -- Suzanne ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Choosing is only difficult for those with imagination ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 3 12:58:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:25:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: creative block Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:46:36 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <199909031747.MAA17509@relay.acns.nwu.edu> Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk Hi Morgan-- Always glad to see a lurker speak up! I've been doing glass (as a hobby) for about the same length of time, but can't say I've yet to run into a major block. There are short periods when I just don't feel like it, but I have enough projects lined up to last quite awhile--I just have to find the time. I have only a couple of suggestions. One would be to maybe try something totally different. Lead if you've done only coppper foil (or vice versa). Mosaics? Stepping stones? Etching? Some technique to stretch your skills. The other thing that jump-starts me is to find (and buy) a really cool piece of glass. Sometimes the glass itself will do it---either inspire a specific use, or compel me to make something (anything) just to use it! Kaye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 3 14:00:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:27:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!kristc From: "Kris" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: creative block Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 16:24:06 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep3.12246.0> References: <<1999Sep3.1325.0>> Precedence: bulk Maybe you need a vacation? Just close the door to your studio and don't even open it for a week, don't even think about glass. Use this time to rest, read, take walks, whatever makes you feel recharged and energized. You have to take care of yourself and be sure your batteries are charged before you can give and create. Is there anything else going on in your life in the last 6 months that might be draining you? Maybe when you go back to the studio, something as simple as cleaning everything, sorting your glass, getting your environment comfortable and inviting would help. Good luck and check back in, let us know how it is going. Kris > > My name is Morgan and I've been lurking for a while now. :) I hope > someone has some helpful advice for my problem. I've been doing glass > for over 10 years but for about the last 6 months or so I've run into a > sort of "creative block." I can't come up with ideas and I have no > motivation to create. It's driving me nuts. Do any of you ever have > this happen? Got any tips to help combat this problem? Help help > help! > > Morgan > Glass, Etc. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 3 17:08:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:53:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: erols.com!deethom From: Dee Thompson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: creative block Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 19:11:48 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990903191146.00985424@pop.erols.com> Precedence: bulk I've had those spells too. The one thing I find that will stop me cold if my motivation is already low, is allowing my work table to get cluttered. Try cleaning up and rearranging your supplies, take some pattern books and just look through them with some colored pencils in hand...ever used those watercolor pencils? A fresh coat of white paint on the walls is always a brightener for me as well. Sometimes I put sheets of glass in windows around the house just to enjoy the glass for itself without any pattern in mind. Go to a museum and get someone elses color and pattern swirling in your mind...take a little sketch pad for any new ideas. Do something small...get one of those little christmas presents, say for your not to close neighbor or for the mailman done! Do a pinecone wreath for your door, plant a bunch of wonderful fall colored chrysanthemums... Just keep doing something and you'll get through it. The Artist's Way is a book that has helped me, too. Dee ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 3 17:24:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 16:00:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: creative block Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 18:55:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep3.145531.0> Precedence: bulk Yikes......close your studio for a week??? In the real world we don't have that luxury. Not allowed to have creative blocks and vacations are few and far between these days. But it is all about grounding yourself and being focused. Once you let your focus go you are in trouble. We are lucky to have some really magnificent interior designers and architects who we collaborate with. They challenge us with our creativity and help us to stayed focused. We also have deadlines and nothing more focusing than that. my best, pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists Member AIA -----Original Message----- From: Kris To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, September 03, 1999 5:12 PM Subject: Re: creative block >Maybe you need a vacation? Just close the door to your studio and don't even >open it for a week, don't even think about glass. Use this time to rest, >read, take walks, whatever makes you feel recharged and energized. You have >to take care of yourself and be sure your batteries are charged before you >can give and create. Is there anything else going on in your life in the >last 6 months that might be draining you? Maybe when you go back to the >studio, something as simple as cleaning everything, sorting your glass, >getting your environment comfortable and inviting would help. Good luck and >check back in, let us know how it is going. >Kris >> >> My name is Morgan and I've been lurking for a while now. :) I hope >> someone has some helpful advice for my problem. I've been doing glass >> for over 10 years but for about the last 6 months or so I've run into a >> sort of "creative block." I can't come up with ideas and I have no >> motivation to create. It's driving me nuts. Do any of you ever have >> this happen? Got any tips to help combat this problem? Help help >> help! >> >> Morgan >> Glass, Etc. > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 3 18:12:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 17:15:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Glass painting group Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 20:13:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep3.16130.0> Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, Well, everyone is doing remarkably well in the little glass painting session here at the Greer Studios.... besides Elisabeth and her friend, Jenny from UK, we have = with us Candy Thurman, Claudette Jaramillo, Petra Bigger (check her work out on the IGGA home page... she's cool artist of the month), and various other stained glass artists who are dropping in and out to check progress. They = are all working on a sundial window, designed by Michael, and inspired by several similar still intact in England. When the window is completed, it will be auctioned off on eBay to benefit the International Guild of Glass Artists (I think we're all members).... so, watch for word on its = completion and posting on the auction site! I'll let you know. I'm also getting photos to send to Pam B-T to post on the E-Tour site. It's = going to be mega cool! You should see the gnomon on this one!! Cheers to all and I'll have Elisabeth post a few more memoirs over the weekend. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 3 18:29:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 17:16:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: capecod.net!jaugusta From: Joseph Augusta To: Morgan Stewart Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: creative block Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 19:33:43 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep3.153343.0> References: <<1999Sep3.1325.0>> Precedence: bulk Morgan Stewart wrote: > I've been doing glass > for over 10 years but for about the last 6 months or so I've run into a > sort of "creative block." I can't come up with ideas and I have no > motivation to create. Stop feeling sorry for yourself--here's what to do: Quit! and do something else! Believe me, you'll live---try selling cars, making bagels, running a newstand, doing tie-dyed t-shirts, or balloon animals at the craft fair. Dig clams, shuck oysters, or work at the local ASPCA. Do charity work for old folks--volunteer for something---move to New York and work for Hillary! Well, maybe not that! Best wishes, Joseph ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 3 19:46:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 19:00:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!atayloreddesign From: Delores Taylor To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: stainless steel former Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:29:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199909031729.NAA07608@spdmraaa.compuserve.com> Precedence: bulk Similar process but lower tech...you can use an ordinary spray bottle full of a thin shelf wash preparation. Shake frequently and spray the metal former. When you kiln wash gets thick it tends to clog the spray bottle. Also keep the bottle full for best results. > >Yes continue to reheat and apply the kiln wash until you have a good coating >on the mold. We like to use an airbrush to apply the kilnwash as it tends >to apply a much smoother and uniform coating. >Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd. >888-508-5595 >http://www.heesun.com >Custom Design Studio >Supplies & Classes for Stained & Fused Glass & Mosaics >-----Original Message----- >From: ALI CASADO >To: Glass@bungi.com >Date: Thursday, September 02, 1999 8:31 PM >Subject: stainless steel former > > >>I was told to heat the floral former in order that the kiln wash will >>adhere without rolling down the sides. >>I did this, but it needs at least one or two more coats. Do I reheat >>the mold after every coat? >>I tried to put a second coat without heating it and it took it, but >>not too well. >>Ali >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 3 20:49:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 19:44:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!ACASADO From: ACASADO@webtv.net (ALI CASADO) To: glass@bungi.com (Dani Greer) Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Painting on glass Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:37:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep3.183721.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Dani, Iam really interested in painting on glass, but not with glass paint. I would like to use transparant enamel powder mixed with water friendly medium and water. I understand the colors, when fired, are more brilliant than the glass paint. Also, have you ever painted with the fine frit. I was told it could look like watercolors I am really excited about trying these different mediums to achieve dramatic and unique pieces. Being more experienced with glass than I am, could you tell me if you have used the above mentioned mediums, and what your opinion is of them? Thanks in advance Ali ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 3 22:14:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 21:14:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!ACASADO From: ACASADO@webtv.net (ALI CASADO) To: Glass@bungi.com (Delores Taylor) Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Stainless Steel Former Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 00:10:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep3.201026.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Delores, Don't you heat the former before spraying on the kiln wash? Even with heating the former, I had to put many coats of thin wash and still there are streaks where you can still see the steel (slight as they may be). Do have an explanation as to why? Thanks Ali ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 3 22:27:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 21:23:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne Gunn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: my patina woes... Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 23:21:50 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep3.182150.0> Precedence: bulk I talked to Joe Porcelli about the problem I have had getting brass ball chain to take patina well. It flakes off to bare metal unevenly, looking pretty ugly and creating more work. The only fix I had found was to patina, wipe off all I could, patina, wipe, patina, wipe...then spray the chains with clear lacquer. According to Joe, Brass should take a patina better than lead, so I was really confused why I dont have problems with solder but really do with brass. He said it sounds like my patina is too strong, try watering it down. I tried it today, on a bunch of pulls. I just went out to my studio..and found that it worked on some, not on others. They were all black...but some *are flaking. My guess is that the ones that are flaking, I must not have rinsed well enough so the patina continued working on them. Will continue experimenting with it...and will let you know how it goes. Just so you know...the watered down patina that was strong enough for my brass chain would only turn the solder (60/40) ugly gray. I had to use full strength on that area. Looks like I can water down the patina even more for the brass! Suzanne ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Choosing is only difficult for those with imagination ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 4 07:50:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 07:08:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: workspace Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 07:59:42 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990904075942.0081a610@pop.racsa.co.cr> Precedence: bulk Hi friends! Well, Morgan... try working on a deadline with construction under, over and around you while doing this! Out of the blue, my mother got a little inheritance, and decided to make our joint studio bigger.... she does oil painting.. we both have students in now and then. So.... she is building a new studio for herself, with a bedroom attached for daytime napping when needed (she is 71 and her house is UPHILL 127 steps). Then, in between (with doors to keep out noxious things) will be a joint room with a kitchenette and table etc... to collapse to when we are tired and are in need of refreshments. I get ALL the old studio. Then we discovered (well, we knew but weren't thinking about it - we couldn't do anything about it) that the old one is riddled with termites. So... while I finish some commissions (my biggest to date... a large oval for a door, and two sets of four panels each on each side of the door... each four panel set measures 1 and a half by 1 meter) they are building a new higher roof overhead, and replacing two walls... they will also finish my mother's part and move her out... then... I will have to do a shuffle while they replace the remaining wall... and guess what? the floor... oh I forgot to say we are the second floor! So, having put you sort of in the picture, any ideas? paint colors for walls, skylights or not, etc... I have a glass storage cabinet that I like, but need more room... any ideas better than what I have? I can have windows across the front... most of the other walls probably won't have windows... will have a large back porch? that I can have a hose, and sink and or soldering table in. Still trying to figure good exhaust systems......don't care for my little Hakko extractor fan much... you have to have it right on top of your work, and the filters cost alot and seem unobtainable here. Put a large wall extractor fan in, and it helps, but again... only right in front. =20 a while back I made a long light table, and connected to it a cutting surface, and under the cutting surface and light table I have two places to store glass, and 15 drawers... glad to share the specifics with anyone interested... it has worked well.... I would like a library corner...... also a place to do my glass and tile painting (just hobby stuff with Pebeo paints baked in a 300 degree oven) well any ideas for your dream studio send them on! Meg =BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA= =BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA= =BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA= =BA =BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA RICHARD AND MEG LAVAL Apdo 24-5655 Monteverde COSTA RICA PHONE 645-5052 or 645-5419 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 4 08:48:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 08:19:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: capecod.net!jaugusta From: Joseph Augusta To: glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Try this Black! Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 09:58:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep4.55831.0> Precedence: bulk For listees who inquired about carbon black---here's a better one, in some respects, and quite authentic: http://www.ebonex.com/ Best wishes, Joseph ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 4 09:48:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 09:00:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: Re: creative block Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 07:28:44 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990904072844.007cebe0@pop.racsa.co.cr> References: <<1999Sep3.1325.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi Morgan, In my experience, artists always get a block sooner or later.... let it be, get interested in other things... you are probably incubating a new direction, and when it is ready, you will want to create again... maybe some other art form for a while, to shake you loose? a local course in something or other? Best wishes, Meg At 08:03 AM 9/3/99 -0700, you wrote: >Hello everyone... > >My name is Morgan and I've been lurking for a while now. :) I hope >someone has some helpful advice for my problem. I've been doing glass >for over 10 years but for about the last 6 months or so I've run into a >sort of "creative block." I can't come up with ideas and I have no >motivation to create. It's driving me nuts. Do any of you ever have >this happen? Got any tips to help combat this problem? Help help >help! > >Morgan >Glass, Etc. > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > =BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA= =BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA= =BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA= =BA =BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA RICHARD AND MEG LAVAL Apdo 24-5655 Monteverde COSTA RICA PHONE 645-5052 or 645-5419 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 4 12:20:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 11:50:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: ALI CASADO , Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Painting on glass Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 13:20:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep4.92047.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by ALI CASADO > I would like to use transparant enamel powder mixed with water friendly medium and water. I understand the colors, when fired, are more< What you have described IS traditional glass painting which is precisely what we are demonstrating this past few days. Today, the group is experimenting with various carriers (we use gum arabic and water) that are less traditional.... beer, wine, and Sprite all of which will probably work just fine, the beer and wine, of course, working best due to the spirits. Some of the paints like to reject water, so the alcohol = is particularly successful as mixing medium... and the sugar plays the same role as the gum arabic. Also, have you ever painted with the fine frit. = I don't care for frits, they're too grainy for my taste. And, the technique we use with glass painters stains and enamels (we use mostly high-fire enamels on colored cathedrals) is more akin to drawing than painting. The tracery is like painting, = but the matting used to model and detail is applied over the entire surface very finely, then tooled out when dry, more like reductive drawing technique. A good book to acquire is "The Art of Painting on Glass" by Albinus Elskus... out-of-print and hard to find, but well worth the effort. Hope that helps! Best regards, Dani Greer = Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 4 12:49:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 11:51:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!cecnralph From: Cecily and Ralph Wood To: Bungi Glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Subject: tallow as flux Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 14:57:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep4.105751.0> Organization: Grendel Studios Precedence: bulk Hi Elisabeth, I was one of your Meredith students and am interested in the use of the tallow "candles" on the lead came as flux - and not even roughing up the came with a wire brush. No nasty chemicals there (unless you can inhale cholesteral). I thought the wire brushing was to help remove a waxy or some other kind of finish from the came as it comes from the manufacturer. I'm sure other kinds of came (copper, zinc, brass) have some sort of protective coat, just from the looks of it before and after using 0000 steel wool - and from the way they responds to the soldering process. Does US lead came have a coating and perhaps GB came does not? Although it certainly seemed to do the job on my panel and we were working with a US came from Cascade. Also, can the tallow be used on other than lead? And if so, why all the fancy fluxes with all the chemicals? Or is everyone convinced they will get mad cow disease by handling the tallow? Maybe you could write us an informative lecture on the use of tallow? I've certainly not seen anything like it in the books I have. I checked out the web and saw that the tallow "candles" could be had from British suppliers. For those of you who weren't in her classes, she broke up a tallow candle (which has no wick, so technically not a candle) and gave each of us pieces, which we were to rub at junctions of the came which are the solder joints. The tallow was good and hard - very like modern wax candles, and you didn't need much rubbed/flaked off to do the trick. Thanks - incurably curious Cecily -- ********************************************************************* * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) ********************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 4 13:52:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 13:20:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: NG Fiction - Emeraldine on the Tiffany Studios Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 15:07:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep4.11717.0> Precedence: bulk Friends, it=92s good to be back home. About two weeks ago, Senhor Jay Ja= y called me. The Museum of Translucence and Light is planning an exhibit on the =93Forgotten Workers of the Tiffany Studios=94 and they had asked = him if he had any papers or information on his great-grandmother. She had worked as a Tiffany designer. The Senhor had trunks of materials in his attic and thought I might be kind enough to help sort them. He thought we might then take a look at whichever of the completed windows we could find. The Senhor had never looked at all the material. One of the first intriguing items we found was a note: =93Jaynie, Don=92t know what I=92d= do without you. Louie.=94 As we arranged the papers and, yes, even glass samples, we began to put together her story. To whet your appetite for the upcoming exhibit, I thought you=92d like to hear some of it. Senhora Jayne Jane was a respected artist before she went to work for Tiffany. If you look at the fashion magazines of the day, such as IN Sync, you=92ll find many of her paintings gracing the cover. She realized, however, that as a young widow, she needed a secure source of income, and as a painter, well, she wasn=92t dead. Tiffany was rather new at the window biz and needed someone who could design the monumental pieces he was trying to do, and supervise the painting of the faces and hands and feet on the religious designs. Snha JJ not only seemed instinctively to know how to do the work, but was responsible for many of the things we associate with Tiffany windows. Her designs were more intricate than those of other designers. She helped experiment with copper foil so that her exacting designs could be created. She was involved in finding the exact color and section of glass to place in each section of her cartoon. While standing in front of several glass panels, tipped up on framework for better examination in front of a window, a glass cutter came in carrying a large section of glass, to ask a question. The cutter put the glass down so that it overlapped one of the previous panels and Snha JJ immediately realized that she was seeing the color she wanted. From that was developed the layering technique that became so characteristic of her designs. As painter, used to mixing her colors, she found that she no longer had to settle for close enough. She became a master (mistress?) of layering. She was well loved by the other workers in the studio. When you closely examine windows that she designed, you will find extraordinary workmanship and most interestingly, decorative soldering. Part of that soldering became an in-joke. Many of her designs were of biblical scenes, and of course, the figures were always barefooted. Except for the Holy Family, whenever a barefoot was soldered, a little fancy soldering was applied. At certain time of day, when the light is falling just right, for about ten minutes those bare feet look like they have long toenails. I hear Pierre at the door. I hope you will make an effort to see the exhibit when it is ready. Emeraldine S P O I L E R Emeraldine may be asked to help mount the exhibit=85 If she can only find the time. . ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 4 14:23:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 13:25:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: Suzanne Gunn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: my patina woes... Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 16:18:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep4.121824.0> References: <<1999Sep3.182150.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Suzanne Gunn wrote: > > I talked to Joe Porcelli about the problem I have had getting brass ball > chain to take patina well. It flakes off to bare metal unevenly, > looking pretty ugly and creating more work. > > The only fix I had found was to patina, wipe off all I could, patina, > wipe, patina, wipe...then spray the chains with clear lacquer. > > According to Joe, Brass should take a patina better than lead, so I was > really confused why I dont have problems with solder but really do with > brass. > > He said it sounds like my patina is too strong, try watering it down. > > I tried it today, on a bunch of pulls. I just went out to my > studio..and found that it worked on some, not on others. > > They were all black...but some *are flaking. My guess is that > the ones that are flaking, I must not have rinsed well enough so the > patina continued working on them. > > Will continue experimenting with it...and will let you know how it goes. > > Just so you know...the watered down patina that was strong enough for my > brass chain would only turn the solder (60/40) ugly gray. I had to use > full strength on that area. Looks like I can water down the patina even > more for the brass! > > Suzanne > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Choosing is only difficult > for those with imagination > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the other things i'd try would be: cleaning all the oxidation on the ball chain. and remove any possible laquer that may still be on the ball chain when you got it. some companies may spray their chair to keep them shiney. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 4 18:09:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 17:08:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig From: "Mike Figgy" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: subscribe Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 18:09:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep4.14955.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BEF700.B1172FA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable subscribe Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2 = (Tel:416-252-6868) Canada's first and yes, still its only officially sanctioned stained = glass supplier. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BEF700.B1172FA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
subscribe
Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, = Canada, M8Y 1L2=20 (Tel:416-252-6868)
Canada's first and yes, still its only officially=20 sanctioned stained glass supplier.
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BEF700.B1172FA0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 4 20:17:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 20:01:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: xy2y92becker.net!bender9 From: bender9@xy2y92becker.net To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit Subject: Search Engine Registration adv Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 10:54:32 +0900 Message-ID: <199909050154.KAA15319@sccnet.sh.cn> Precedence: bulk I saw your listing on the internet. I work for a company that submits websites to search engines. We can submit your website to over 350 of the worlds best search engines and directories for a one time charge of only $39.95. If you would like to put your website in the fast lane and receive more traffic call me on our toll-free number listed below. All work is verified! Sincerely, Mike Davidson (888) 892-7537 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 4 21:47:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 21:30:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Search Engine Registration adv Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 21:27:23 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep4.142723.0> Precedence: bulk Now that I think of it I have never turned up bungi in a web search. Just as well. Mike Savad is the one to see if you want to move a web site up on the list. Bob in SOCAL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 5 04:22:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 04:11:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: Family Account Subject: Re: NG Fiction - Emeraldine on the Tiffany Studios Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 06:50:20 +0000 Message-ID: <199909051049.GAA08645@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > The Museum of Translucence and Light is > planning an exhibit on the =93Forgotten Workers of the Tiffany > Studios=94 and they had asked = him if he had any papers or > information on his great-grandmother. She had worked as a Tiffany > designer. Now, we *are talking "fiction" here, right? This is a charming and interesting story, but it's totally made up, am I correct in my thinking on that? Albert Albert Lewis, Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. A 501(c)(6) not-for-profit association 54 Cherry St., PO Box 1809, North Adams MA 01247-1809 (413) 663-7946 Fax: (413) 663-7167 _____________________________________________ Home page http://igga.org/ Member Studios http://igga.org/guildtop.htm Sources Guide http://igga.org/guide.htm Guild Library http://aiap.com/amazon/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 5 07:26:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 07:12:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mars.ark.com!wmunro From: wmunro@mars.ark.com (Wayne Munro) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Mosaic Form Help Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 07:07:48 -0700 Message-ID: <199909051407.HAA04212@ark.com> Precedence: bulk Hi gang.....Hope everyone has had a good summer and are getting back to the 'glass stuff'. I am trying to make some small coaster mosaics (the shape of a star) and I am haveing a horrible time cutting the vinyl to shape to fit the mold. I am wasting more vinyl than I am getting to use. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to measure & cut the vinyl to fit the different molds properly? Any suggestions for this and any other shapes for this problem would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.....Wayne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 5 08:56:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 07:51:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG Fiction - Emeraldine on the Tiffany Studios Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 10:19:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep5.61951.0> References: <<199909051049.GAA08645@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk Yes, complete fiction. I did NO research, just happened to be having my car repaired near two churches that had Tiffany windows when Emeraldine started talking to me. By the way, if you see a church with interesting windows and you knock on the office door and ask nicely to see the windows, you'll often get a guided tour. (My brakes gave up in Uniontown PA...in the mountains, no less. Suddenly screaching!) Dorothy Albert Lewis wrote: > > The Museum of Translucence and Light is > > planning an exhibit on the =93Forgotten Workers of the Tiffany > > Studios=94 and they had asked = him if he had any papers or > > information on his great-grandmother. She had worked as a Tiffany > > designer. > > Now, we *are talking "fiction" here, right? This is a charming and > interesting story, but it's totally made up, am I correct in my > thinking on that? > > Albert > > Albert Lewis, Executive Director > International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. > A 501(c)(6) not-for-profit association > 54 Cherry St., PO Box 1809, North Adams MA 01247-1809 > (413) 663-7946 Fax: (413) 663-7167 > _____________________________________________ > Home page http://igga.org/ > Member Studios http://igga.org/guildtop.htm > Sources Guide http://igga.org/guide.htm > Guild Library http://aiap.com/amazon/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 5 11:44:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 11:20:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: go.com!the_wright_light From: wright To: wmunro@mars.ark.com (Wayne Munro), glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Mosaic Form Help Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 11:02:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep5.4236.0> Precedence: bulk Put glass face down on sticky side. Push down pieces so they are secure then cut around pattern with an exactoknife and remove excess contact paper (or whatever you use). Lay into mold that has been coated with vasoline then pour cement over. I learned at Glass Visions you could use pam as a release agent or WD40 but put vasoline under pattern to keep it from slipping. Has anyone ever heard if WD40 changes the color of the cement? Maggie ________________________________________________________ ____ Get your Free GO Network Email address at http://mail.go.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 5 12:06:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 11:22:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mosaic Form Help Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 14:23:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep5.102351.0> References: <<199909051407.HAA04212@ark.com>> Precedence: bulk Try this Cut the contact paper bigger than your mold. Place it over a reversed version of your pattern, sticky side up. Put the glass down on the contact paper 'right" side down. Push down so glass is secure on the contact paper. Now trim around the glass with a sharp blade/craft knife. I don't do coasters, but do garden stones. Used to put the pieces on the pattern and then try to stretch the contact peper over the glass. It took two people and was still difficult. Wayne Munro wrote: > Hi gang.....Hope everyone has had a good summer and are getting back to the > 'glass stuff'. > I am trying to make some small coaster mosaics (the shape of a star) and I > am haveing a horrible time cutting the vinyl to shape to fit the mold. I am > wasting more vinyl than I am getting to use. > Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to measure & cut the vinyl to fit > the different molds properly? > Any suggestions for this and any other shapes for this problem would be > greatly appreciated. > > Thanks.....Wayne > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 5 12:44:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 12:30:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne Gunn To: wright Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mosaic Form Help Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 14:31:36 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep5.93136.0> References: <<1999Sep5.4236.0>> Precedence: bulk There is a professional mold release called 880 (what I use)that is also used to clean your forms. Works great, it only takes a tiny bit. Sorry, I dont know the manufacturers name. I buy it from someone else who pours it into whatever container I bring to collect it with. Let me know if you want me to, and I can make a phone call Tues to find out for you. -- Suzanne ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Choosing is only difficult for those with imagination ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 5 13:15:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 12:36:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne Gunn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mosaic Form Help Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 14:34:30 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep5.93430.0> References: <<1999Sep5.102351.0>> Precedence: bulk > I don't do coasters, but do garden stones. Used to put the pieces on the > pattern and then try to stretch the contact peper over the glass. It took two > people and was still difficult. > I have my glass on the cartoon, cut the contact paper, fold it in half sticky side down, lay the fold on the middle of the glass, slowly lowering the contact paper. (It helps eliminate air bubble behind the glass) Then burnish the contact paper to the glass, flip it over and trip as close to the glass as I can get with a razor blade. Try it several ways and decide what works best for you. -- Suzanne ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Choosing is only difficult for those with imagination ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 5 13:45:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 13:04:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: go.com!the_wright_light From: wright To: wmunro@mars.ark.com (Wayne Munro), glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Mosaic Form Help Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 11:02:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep5.4236.0> Precedence: bulk Put glass face down on sticky side. Push down pieces so they are secure then cut around pattern with an exactoknife and remove excess contact paper (or whatever you use). Lay into mold that has been coated with vasoline then pour cement over. I learned at Glass Visions you could use pam as a release agent or WD40 but put vasoline under pattern to keep it from slipping. Has anyone ever heard if WD40 changes the color of the cement? Maggie ________________________________________________________ ____ Get your Free GO Network Email address at http://mail.go.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 5 16:47:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 16:16:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: go.com!the_wright_light From: wright To: wmunro@mars.ark.com (Wayne Munro), glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Mosaic Form Help Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 11:02:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep5.4236.0> Precedence: bulk Put glass face down on sticky side. Push down pieces so they are secure then cut around pattern with an exactoknife and remove excess contact paper (or whatever you use). Lay into mold that has been coated with vasoline then pour cement over. I learned at Glass Visions you could use pam as a release agent or WD40 but put vasoline under pattern to keep it from slipping. Has anyone ever heard if WD40 changes the color of the cement? Maggie ________________________________________________________ ____ Get your Free GO Network Email address at http://mail.go.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 5 17:53:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 17:12:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: go.com!the_wright_light From: wright To: wmunro@mars.ark.com (Wayne Munro), glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Mosaic Form Help Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 17:10:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep5.101032.0> Precedence: bulk I did forget to say that you need to trace your pattern on the back and use this side to lay your face down pieces on. Maggie ________________________________________________________ ____ Get your Free GO Network Email address at http://mail.go.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 5 20:47:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 20:31:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!ACASADO From: ACASADO@webtv.net (ALI CASADO) To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Pate De Verre Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:30:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep5.193051.0> Precedence: bulk I hear it referred to all the time, but I'm not really sure what exactly it is. When and how is it used? Ali ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 5 22:51:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 22:20:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "ALI CASADO" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Pate De Verre Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 21:52:09 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep5.14529.0> Precedence: bulk >>I hear it referred to all the time, but I'm not really sure what exactly it is. When and how is it used? Ali<< Pate de verre (translates to paste of glass) is a technique for making glass castings whereby glass is ground to a coarse powder, made into a paste with water and binder and heated in a mold to yield a casting. "Glass Casting and Moldmaking" by Boyce Lundstrom has an excellent section on this interesting method of forming glass. The size, color and PLACEMENT of the glass pieces determine much of the beauty of the piece which may have a painterly quality. It was popular a 100 years ago as well as in Egyptian times. Bob in SOCAL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 6 06:41:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 05:56:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Mosaic Form Help Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 08:43:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep6.44347.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Wayne Munro >I am trying to make some small coaster mosaics (the shape of a star) and= I am haveing a horrible time cutting the vinyl to shape to fit the mold. I = am wasting more vinyl than I am getting to use. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to measure & cut the vinyl to fit the different molds properly? < Put the mold on top of the vinyl/contact paper. Trace around it using a sharpie pen or some other felt-tip pen. Cut out the pattern on the inside of your tracing - be generous with cutting a 1/2 inch or so on the inside of your tracing. Christie Wood/Art Glass Ensembles 405 E. Walnut St. Rear North Wales, PA 19454 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 6 07:42:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 07:00:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: scc.net!oddjob From: "Susan C. Reitmann" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: Sprinkler Instructions Ready Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 08:59:29 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep6.35929.0> Precedence: bulk For all of you that requested the instructions for the water sprinkler, they are now ready and can be found at http://members.tripod.com/Northernlights/Sprinkler/index.html (a special thanks to Tracy for allowing this to be posted to her website) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 6 08:35:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 08:10:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pacbell.net!rrkerr From: rrk To: "Susan C. Reitmann" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Sprinkler Instructions Ready Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 08:10:22 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep6.11022.0> References: <<1999Sep6.35929.0>> Precedence: bulk "Susan C. Reitmann" wrote: >=20 > For all of you that requested the instructions for the water sprinkler, > they are now ready and can be found at > http://members.tripod.com/Northernlights/Sprinkler/index.html >=20 > (a special thanks to Tracy for allowing this to be posted to her websit= e) BRAVO! Bien fait ... vraiment excellent. First class job. =20 Excellent work. Thanks for putting this up ... and for doing such a good job of it. Well-done. --=20 HAVE FUN .......... ez ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 6 11:39:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:00:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!ACASADO From: ACASADO@webtv.net (ALI CASADO) To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: fusing glass on a drinking cup Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:50:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep6.95053.0> Precedence: bulk Hi guys, I have been wanting to fuse glass on a ceramic set of cups and saucers with raised daisys around the perimeter of each piece. I clear glazed each piece and now I would like to fuse pieces of stained glass or frit on the daisys only. How can I fuse the glass on the cups and prevent the glass from running down the sides when it starts melting? Of course, the saucers are no problem as they are flat. I hope someone can help, as I have been wanting to do this for a while. Thanking you in advance. Ali ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 6 13:11:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 12:48:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: iconn.net!tbyrnes From: Tim Byrnes To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Church Windows Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 15:47:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep6.114720.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Folks, Just a little info on an Episcopal church, here in New Haven, CT. The windows in Christ Church at 84 Broadway, were made in England in the 1800's and shipped here and installed. I don't have the exact dates, but should be able to find out. There are other windows in some of the churchs on and around the campus of YALE University, that are very beautiful. When I get the chance to photograph some of these I will post them. Now that most of the buildings are open it will be easier to go in and photograph, cause during the summer months alot of the building are closed. I would like to thank Sue for posting the info about the Stained Glass Sprinkler and an excellent job it is. Peace, Tim Byrnes ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 6 13:33:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 12:32:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ukonline.co.uk!brian.shepherd From: "Brian Shepherd" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:30:28 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Sep6.213028.0> Precedence: bulk Please note my new address is brian.shepherd@ukonline.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 6 14:13:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:42:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!barbaraelmore From: barbara elmore To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: glass bracelets Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:39:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep6.63917.0> Precedence: bulk I seem to remember there was a thread going on about glass bracelets a few months ago, but without much conclusion. Here in North Carolina, the PBS network features Vicki Payne's Glass program, and recently she had a guest named Jane Perisco (forgive me if I have misspelled it!) and I believe her company was called JP Glassworks. She fused dichroic, etc., glass and then slumped and formed over what looked like a stainless steel oval mounted on two "saw horses" (so you could slide the bracelet off when completed), using a special scissor-like mandrel to complete the oval shape of the glass while hot. Does anyone have any clue about further information and supplies available to complete these bracelets? And/or their durability? It was impressive! Thanks! Barbara Elmore __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 6 14:42:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:12:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: wright Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Mosaic Form Help Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:55:18 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep6.115518.0> Precedence: bulk We use Downy Fabric Softener as a mold release for cement = sculptures, particularly when using a flexible rubber mold. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 6 15:41:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:13:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pacbell.net!rrkerr From: rrk To: Tim Byrnes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Church Windows Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 14:36:30 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep6.73630.0> References: <<1999Sep6.114720.0>> Precedence: bulk Tim Byrnes wrote: >=20 > Hi Folks, > Just a little info on an Episcopal church, here in New Haven, CT. The > windows in Christ Church at 84 Broadway, were made in England in the > 1800's and shipped here and installed. I don't have the exact dates, bu= t > should be able to find out. There are other windows in some of the > churchs on and around the campus of YALE University, that are very > beautiful. When I get the chance to photograph some of these I will > post them. Now that most of the buildings are open it will be easier to > go in and photograph, cause during the summer months alot of the > building are closed. > I would like to thank Sue for posting the info about the Stained Glass > Sprinkler and an excellent job it is. > Peace, Must be some kind of psychic resonance at work here. I was JUST looking at a URL that mentions Yale. Some (at least) of the Yale windows have been "restored" ...=20 see=20 http://stainedglass.org/sourcebook/SB99_Studios/Rohlf/rol_992.html You might consider emailing the proprietor. He might have something to add, like specifics on the history of individual windows, or before/after photos, or ... who knows? Might be interesting. Please do post these photos somewhere, my wife did her postdoc (chem eng) there and loved both New Haven and Yale and New England in general [a love that is completely opaque to myself, the archetypal Southwesterner , just the IDEA of a NE winter gives me chills, not to mention all those YANKEES all in one area .... ;) ] which is why the mention of New Haven and Yale got my attention. I mentioned this to her and she got a big smile on her face. There might be others who would appreciate the pics as well. Later ...... --=20 HAVE FUN .......... ez (aka Bob) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 6 19:42:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 19:10:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram From: "Claudette Jaramillo" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Painting, Painting, Painting Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 19:46:45 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Sep6.134645.0> Precedence: bulk I really enjoyed the glass painting class by Michael Greer. I was overwhelmed with the talent that surrounded me this weekend. Everyone was so intensively concentrating on brush strokes, mixing, applying, firing and trying to be serious novices. I kept telling my husband how glad I was that I came for many, many reasons. I enjoyed all the photographs that E. and Jenny shared of everyone from bungi at Glass Visions. I was pleased to see that everyone was having a wonderful time off line. Dani and Michael were very gracious in inviting us to learn, eat, and get to know one another. Dani marvelled at dinner that it was so-o-o cool that we had all met through bungi, and here we were enjoying each others friendship. I came home and did 16 2x2" tracery squares, and designed a piece for their immediate use. I am firing the silver stain as we speak. I wanted to do something with this new information bubbling in my head, before I forget everything I learned. I only had a haik brush....sad I had to leave Mike's badger brush behind. But in a pinch it worked ....just ok. I think I put too much gum arabic in my first batch of tracing black...I will have to buy the powder, liquid is too strong. But the succeeding batches I mixed came out better. I don't have a good painter's spatula, so I am using a plastic kitchen one...works easier in some ways, but the plastic absorbs...not good. Again, I want to thank Glenna, for providing for us a smaller more friendly world of glass people. I think I am so fortunate to meet people such as Dani & Michael...and the rest of the bungi gang, E, Jenny, & Candy. I was picking Candy's fusing brain all Saturday , and I am sure I will learn a lot from her this year, too. Warmest regards, Claudette ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 7 05:04:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 04:29:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Leadlines From: Leadlines@aol.com To: oddjob@scc.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Sprinkler Instructions Ready Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 07:28:38 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep7.112838.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks for the sprinkler instructions, it looks great. Luanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 7 06:36:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 05:46:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Mar333Wood From: Mar333Wood@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Help on Experimental Workshop info Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 08:44:22 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep7.124422.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all, I received a request that I have no knowledge of, can anyone out there help out? My name is julie chapman , Iam currently working on some stained glass for the Art House Hotel in Glasgow . I was wondering if you had any info on a magazine company in New York called EXPERIMENTAL WORKSHOP. I don't have a contact and wondered if you could help. Boyce Lundstrm glass fusing book 1 had them listed but no no e mail. Can you help please? Thanks Any information would be appreciated. Marti Woodmar@Bigfoot.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 7 06:52:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 06:01:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pobox.com!Northernlights From: "Northernlights (Tracy Reitmann)" To: Leadlines@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Sprinkler Instructions Ready Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 07:52:56 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep7.25256.0> References: <<1999Sep7.112838.0>> Precedence: bulk Thanks Luanne....I was wondering what people thought of it...it's the first time I've put something like that together on a web page and I tried to make it as easy as possible for people to get around in it...also tried to make it so each page will fit on one page when it's printed. Hopefully that's the case! Leadlines@aol.com wrote: > Thanks for the sprinkler instructions, it looks great. > Luanne > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 7 07:37:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 07:02:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: Mar333Wood@aol.com Subject: Re: Help on Experimental Workshop info Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:00:58 +0000 Message-ID: <199909071359.JAA16834@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk The New York Experimental Glass Workshop was founded 'way back in the dark ages of the 1970s by Richard Yelle and a few other people. I had the distinct honor of helping them start a publication in 1979 ... the National Endowment funded me going there for a month to do that -- I stayed 6 months for the same thousand dollars. But The New York Experimental Glass Workshop was long ago renamed "UrbanGlass," and this is what I have on them: UrbanGlass, 647 Fulton Street, Brooklyn NY 11217. Phone: (718) 625-3685. Fax: (718) 625-3889. E-mail: urbanglass@aol.com Classes in glassblowing, casting, lampworking, coldworking, neon, stained glass, fusing and slumping. Continuing education connections with a BFA program in Product Design at the Parsons School of Design; credit classes at New York University and Long Island University. We received a number of brochures and flyers about their programs ... the Spring 1996 lineup (this is typical of Fall workshops, too) included workshops in: neon, glassblowing, kiln cast glass, lampworking, advanced stained glass, fundamentals of stained glass, slumped glass, mosaics, glass casting, and advanced workshops in perfume bottles, and goblet making. Weekend workshops covered beadmaking, hotcasting, paperweights, an introduction to glassblowing, and neon. UrbanGlass is in a 17,000-square-foot space in Brooklyn; they rent time and space to artists at reasonable rates ($22/hr. for glassblowing, $10/hr. for neon, for example). UrbanGlass, their magnificent magazine is $28/year in the USA, US$33 in Canada and Mexico, $48 everywhere else. Back issues are $7. Hope that helps. Albert Albert Lewis, Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. A 501(c)(6) not-for-profit association 54 Cherry St., PO Box 1809, North Adams MA 01247-1809 (413) 663-7946 Fax: (413) 663-7167 _____________________________________________ Home page http://igga.org/ Member Studios http://igga.org/guildtop.htm Sources Guide http://igga.org/guide.htm Guild Library http://aiap.com/amazon/ > I received a request that I have no knowledge of, can anyone out > there help out? > > My name is julie chapman , > Iam currently working on some stained > glass > for the Art House Hotel in Glasgow . > I was wondering if you had any info on a magazine company in New > York called EXPERIMENTAL WORKSHOP. I don't have a contact and > wondered if you could help. Boyce Lundstrm glass fusing book 1 had > them listed but no no e mail. Can you help please? Thanks > > Any information would be appreciated. > Marti > Woodmar@Bigfoot.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 7 09:09:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 08:29:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: "Modiano, Victor" To: 'bungi' , "'Susan C. Reitmann'" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Sprinkler Instructions Ready Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:20:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep7.62049.0> Precedence: bulk Susan The instructions are great but what is the purpose of the Special Adapter and Bushing? I'm also wondering if you can use PVC instead of copper pipe for the octagon. For the dimensions listed it should be rigid enough. It is easier to work with than copper and it can be painted to match the glass used. The only draw back is you can not solder to it. Epoxy putty/glue might be strong enough to hold. I don't expect you to have the answers but thought some one out there might have some ideas on how to attach the glass to PVC. Thanks again for the instructions. If it ever gets made (with PVC) will post the details. Vic M. vmodiano@ctronsoft.com -----Original Message----- From: Susan C. Reitmann [mailto:oddjob@scc.net] Sent: Monday, September 06, 1999 9:59 AM To: 'glass@bungi.com' Subject: Sprinkler Instructions Ready For all of you that requested the instructions for the water sprinkler, they are now ready and can be found at http://members.tripod.com/Northernlights/Sprinkler/index.html (a special thanks to Tracy for allowing this to be posted to her website) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 7 12:00:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:09:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Mar333Wood From: Mar333Wood@aol.com To: alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Help on Experimental Workshop info Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:06:20 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep7.18620.0> Precedence: bulk Albert, Thank you so very much. I knew if anyone would have the information I needed, it would be someone from the Bungi group. Again I realize what a wealth of knowledge we have in our group. Thank you again, Marti ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 7 12:15:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:11:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Mar333Wood From: Mar333Wood@aol.com To: alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Help on Experimental Workshop info Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:06:20 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep7.18620.0> Precedence: bulk Albert, Thank you so very much. I knew if anyone would have the information I needed, it would be someone from the Bungi group. Again I realize what a wealth of knowledge we have in our group. Thank you again, Marti ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 7 14:07:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:11:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Claudette Jaramillo" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Painting, Painting, Painting Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:34:18 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep7.103418.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Claudette Jaramillo" >I really enjoyed the glass painting class by Michael Greer. I was overwhelmed with the talent that surrounded me this weekend. Everyone wa= s so intensively concentrating on brush strokes, mixing, applying, firing a= nd trying to be serious novices. I kept telling my husband how glad I was that I came for many, many reasons.< Wait until you see the sundial window they all worked on... with a special surprise for Patrick Kelly included!! We'll keep you posted, but just for your info, it will be auctioned off on eBay as a benefit for The International Guild of = Glass Artists. Stay tuned! Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 7 20:07:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:56:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: wolf.net!dimitrovich From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: New to Glass Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:24:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep7.172451.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01BEF977.6BEA6360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi everyone. I happened upon this list 2 days ago and immediately = subscribed. Then I went through several archives and found more = information that I have in all my books combined. I am impressed with = the level of information that all of you provide. I look forward to = utilizing the tips and techniques I find on this list. Until I can get into a beginner's class (October 19th) I am trying to = teach myself how to work with both the foil and lead. I made a small = picture frame over the weekend (foiled) and have cut the pieces for a = small panel (lead). I must say, I have an awful lot to learn.=20 All of you sound extremely experienced and I hope that you don't mind = questions from someone as green as myself. I really need the advice = though.=20 I have been yearning to learn to work with stained glass for over 20 = years. Now that the kids are grown and gone and I am home all the time = now, I have the time. I went out and bought nearly everything I need = last Friday plus a few square feet of glass. I think I am ending up with = more materials for mosaics than panels!=20 I am having a very difficult time cutting. I have a Toyo cutter (the one = with the clear pistol grip handle). My curved scores don't always go = where I intend them too. They wander a bit, then I end up with a small = strip of glass to deal with to get to my original cutting line - which I = also find difficult to remove. I have all the required pliers yet I am = not sure as to the proper way to cut and when to remove which excesses = with which pliers - or to grind. ?? I have been scouring the internet for various hints and tips. I haven't = found what I need yet on cutting curves (outer and inner). I bought the = Inland Wiz grinder but am afraid that my poor cutting skills leaves me = with too much glass to remove on the grinder. I'll be going through too = many bits if I don't learn this soon. Having never actually watched = someone cut several pieces and fit them to a pattern, I have no idea how = long it should be taking me to prepare a piece of glass that is cut to = the right shape/size. Please do not be too critical of me for my elementary questions and = comments. I really need help. I am quite accomplished at many other = crafts/arts and am self taught in all of these. So, you are not dealing = with someone who is unable to grasp concepts and apply them.=20 I was criticized quite harshly at the store where I purchased my initial = motherlode of glass "toys" for thinking I could learn this on my own. (I = had every intention of taking a class - just not at that store) I almost = returned everything for a refund and was going to give up the dream of = creating those wonderful stained glass works I desire to learn to make. = But, no. I have been wanting to do this for far too long to let one = person crush me like that. So, I read everything I can, then practice what I read. I have improved = a little from my first hours at this. But, right now my questions deal = with the actual cutting of the glass. Does anyone know of a web site = with good pictures or can someone detail to me some hints that I may = need? I am sure everyone who cut glass for the first time had some = questions like me.=20 I appreciate any information anyone can provide. I look forward to = reading all of your postings. Thanks. Pamela ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01BEF977.6BEA6360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi everyone. I = happened upon=20 this list 2 days ago and immediately subscribed. Then I went through = several=20 archives and found more information that I have in all my books = combined. I am=20 impressed with the level of information that all of you provide. I look = forward=20 to utilizing the tips and techniques I find on this list.
 
Until I can = get into a=20 beginner's class (October 19th) I am trying to teach myself how to work = with=20 both the foil and lead. I made a small picture frame over the weekend = (foiled)=20 and have cut the pieces for a small panel (lead). I must say, I have an = awful=20 lot to learn.
 
All of you = sound extremely=20 experienced and I hope that you don't mind questions from someone as = green as=20 myself. I really need the advice though.
 
I have been = yearning to=20 learn to work with stained glass for over 20 years. Now that the kids = are grown=20 and gone and I am home all the time now, I have the time. I went out and = bought=20 nearly everything I need last Friday plus a few square feet of glass. I = think I=20 am ending up with more materials for mosaics than panels!
 
I am having a = very difficult=20 time cutting. I have a Toyo cutter (the one with the clear pistol grip = handle).=20 My curved scores don't always go where I intend them too. They wander a = bit,=20 then I end up with a small strip of glass to deal with to get to my = original=20 cutting line - which I also find difficult to remove. I have all the = required=20 pliers yet I am not sure as to the proper way to cut and when to remove = which=20 excesses with which pliers - or to grind. ??
 
I have been = scouring the=20 internet for various hints and tips. I haven't found what I need yet on = cutting=20 curves (outer and inner). I bought the Inland Wiz grinder but am afraid = that my=20 poor cutting skills leaves me with too much glass to remove on the = grinder. I'll=20 be going through too many bits if I don't learn this soon. Having never = actually=20 watched someone cut several pieces and fit them to a pattern, I have no = idea how=20 long it should be taking me to prepare a piece of glass that is cut to = the right=20 shape/size.
 
Please do not = be too=20 critical of me for my elementary questions and comments. I really need = help. I=20 am quite accomplished at many other crafts/arts and am self taught in = all of=20 these. So, you are not dealing with someone who is unable to grasp = concepts and=20 apply them.
 
I was = criticized quite=20 harshly at the store where I purchased my initial motherlode of glass=20 "toys" for thinking I could learn this on my own. (I had every = intention of taking a class - just not at that store) I almost returned=20 everything for a refund and was going to give up the dream of creating = those=20 wonderful stained glass works I desire to learn to make. But, no. I have = been=20 wanting to do this for far too long to let one person crush me like=20 that.
 
So, I read = everything I can,=20 then practice what I read. I have improved a little from my first hours = at this.=20 But, right now my questions deal with the actual cutting of the glass. = Does=20 anyone know of a web site with good pictures or can someone detail to me = some=20 hints that I may need? I am sure everyone who cut glass for the first = time had=20 some questions like me.
 
I appreciate = any information=20 anyone can provide. I look forward to reading all of your postings.=20 Thanks.
 
Pamela
------=_NextPart_000_0054_01BEF977.6BEA6360-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 7 21:40:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:31:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: Pamela Dimitrovich Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: New to Glass Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 23:26:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep7.192629.0> References: <<1999Sep7.172451.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Pamela Dimitrovich wrote: btw i had to use the view source to read this, it did'nt come up in my browser... i forget if i have cutting tips on my page http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/ i might... it's really best to take some kind of class. you need to see and hear what a score sounds like. start with the straight lines. then go to curves. when cutting curves your wrist stays locked, and you move your arm, body etc. the cutter must be perpendicular to the glass. kind of like a caligriphic (sp? little sleepy) marker. the wheel itself can't angle from side to side (like leaning on a bike). you have to focus an even pressure over the wheel (be sure to use a cutting oil solution in the cutter or dip it). don't push to hard, don't push to light. after awhile you'll gain the muscle tone to cut the glass. ideally though you really should take some kind of class, or a video tape (vicki payne series is good), you may be able to rent it. it's kind of hard to explain a particular technique. though i'm pretty sure i typed most of this stuff in somewhere in my tips section, so check it out there... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 7 22:41:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:32:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Pamela Dimitrovich" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: New to Glass Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:25:18 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep7.142518.0> Precedence: bulk >>So, I read everything I can, then practice what I read. I have improved = a little from my first hours at this. But, right now my questions deal = with the actual cutting of the glass. << Here is what I did to start learning to cut. 1. Get some 1/8" ordinary window glass and cut to pieces that are about 1" wide. 2. Draw gently waving lines with a magic marker at least 1/2" apart. 3. Using even pressure, score the glass to the left or right side of the edge of one of these lines. Be sure to start and end the score within 1/8" of each end of the glass. Let the cutter talk a little as you score but not screech. Do not tilt the cutter from side to side. 4. Use your running pliers (the ones with the jaws that curve where the glass is inserted and have a line that lines up with the score line) to gently run the score from one end. Turn the glass and start and completely run the score. 5. Examine the edges of the cut glass. Have you cut on the very edge of the magic marker or not? Did the cutter leave a nice EVEN row of tooth like marks the length of the score? 6. Now score the next line and try to correct mistakes from the previous score. 7. Do this for about three 20 minute sessions a day for a week and you should be able to cut to the edge of a line with a high degree of accuracy. Bob in SOCAL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 7 22:42:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:36:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: wolf.net!dimitrovich From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Cutting Help Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 00:10:06 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep7.20106.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BEF98E.817A49E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Mike Savad for your quick response to my questions. I was = fortunate enough to stumble upon your site a few days ago and have = printed off most of your pages. Good night time reading when I'm = tuckered out. I even read several items to my husband. I am impressed = with your history in this craft. Your site has a lot of helpful info. = Thank you and please keep it coming.=20 I am curious about something. How long does it "normally" take to cut = and shape a piece, say, approximately 2" x 3" with maybe a straight line = and a couple of not so tiny curves? Or maybe even a piece of a flower? = Just wondering. Maybe I'm too much of a perfectionist and spend way too = much time getting it "just right". But in my seamstress work, perfect = piecing makes for a better piece overall. I assume the same holds for = stained glass. I wouldn't think that there is any room for any pieces = being "just a little bit off".=20 However, like I said, when I cut a piece, I miss the mark and cannot = seem to get my score right where I intended it to go, then I end up = taking that piece away and am left with many much smaller pieces to get = rid of. I have been practicing with the breaking pliers - to grab it and = pull it off, and the grozing pliers. It just seems like an awful lot of = work to go through when I think maybe I should have been able to cut it = perfectly the first time! Sometimes my running pliers fail to run the = score yet my score is perfectly there, I heard it and I can see it. What = gives with that? Since I can't re-score it, what to do, what to do? BTW, I have been reading past archives for the last couple of hours and = I cannot thank all of you enough for such fabulous info. Major kudos to = the owner of this list!!! I own a Weller 100 and saw many postings in = the archives about it. Thanks for all the tips on the tips. It will come = in handy.=20 I am going to take a class with a co-worker of my husband's and her = daughter. I will be printing off messages in this list for her too. (No = computer of her own).=20 I will look into getting a video, maybe from Delphi. They are close and = shipping should be cheap. I have seen Vicki Payne on crafting shows but = I do not get the PBS show of hers here. At least I have never caught it = if it is aired in the Detroit area. Anyone know if it is?=20 And, thanks Tina for your response too. I agree about the pushiness and = rudeness. I have seen a bit of that. I am totally not that way and I get = a little (quite a bit, actually) sensitive when people treat me like = that. I find that the nicest people I have encountered in this craft are = right here on this list! Hope to see some of you some day at a show or = class or something. Sorry for being so long winded, but I'm just busting with questions!=20 'Night. Pamela ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BEF98E.817A49E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Mike = Savad for your=20 quick response to my questions. I was fortunate enough to stumble upon = your site=20 a few days ago and have printed off most of your pages. Good night time = reading=20 when I'm tuckered out. I even read several items to my husband. I am = impressed=20 with your history in this craft. Your site has a lot of helpful info. = Thank you=20 and please keep it coming.
 
I am curious = about=20 something. How long does it "normally" take to cut and shape a = piece,=20 say, approximately 2" x 3" with maybe a straight line and a = couple of=20 not so tiny curves? Or maybe even a piece of a flower? Just wondering. = Maybe I'm=20 too much of a perfectionist and spend way too much time getting it = "just=20 right". But in my seamstress work, perfect piecing makes for a = better piece=20 overall. I assume the same holds for stained glass. I wouldn't think = that there=20 is any room for any pieces being "just a little bit off".=20
 
However, like = I said, when I=20 cut a piece, I miss the mark and cannot seem to get my score right where = I=20 intended it to go, then I end up taking that piece away and am left with = many=20 much smaller pieces to get rid of. I have been practicing with the = breaking=20 pliers - to grab it and pull it off, and the grozing pliers. It just = seems like=20 an awful lot of work to go through when I think maybe I should have been = able to=20 cut it perfectly the first time! Sometimes my running pliers fail to run = the=20 score yet my score is perfectly there, I heard it and I can see it. What = gives=20 with that? Since I can't re-score it, what to do, what to = do?
 
BTW, I have = been reading=20 past archives for the last couple of hours and I cannot thank all of you = enough=20 for such fabulous info. Major kudos to the owner of this list!!! I own a = Weller=20 100 and saw many postings in the archives about it. Thanks for all the = tips on=20 the tips. It will come in handy.
 
I am going to = take a class=20 with a co-worker of my husband's and her daughter. I will be printing = off=20 messages in this list for her too. (No computer of her own). =
 
I will look = into getting a=20 video, maybe from Delphi. They are close and shipping should be cheap. I = have=20 seen Vicki Payne on crafting shows but I do not get the PBS show of hers = here.=20 At least I have never caught it if it is aired in the Detroit area. = Anyone know=20 if it is?
 
And, thanks = Tina for your=20 response too. I agree about the pushiness and rudeness. I have seen a = bit of=20 that. I am totally not that way and I get a little (quite a bit, = actually)=20 sensitive when people treat me like that. I find that the nicest people = I have=20 encountered in this craft are right here on this list! Hope to see some = of you=20 some day at a show or class or something.
 
Sorry for = being so long=20 winded, but I'm just busting with questions!
 
'Night.
 
Pamela
------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BEF98E.817A49E0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 06:05:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 05:41:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mediaone.net!embee From: "Mary" To: "Pamela Dimitrovich" , Subject: Re: New to Glass Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:32:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.4324.0> References: <<1999Sep7.172451.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi, Pamela... I also started stained glass before taking a class. I bought the Isenberg's book, read it, propped it up on my table, and started cutting. Before my first class, I made a small panel with a couple of curved lines, but mostly straight. The worst thing I did was apply too much pressure to both the score when cutting, and with the running pliers when breaking. Both resulted in the score running off the line, which caused me to have to try to re-break the score line incrementally. As Bob said, you want to hear a slight noise when scoring, but not really harsh (shouldn't sound like bacon frying). It should feel sort of fluid, and if you use your entire upper body in one motion, you tend to stay on the line better. You don't use just the wrist as you would when drawing. When using the running pliers, unless it's a very short distance from one end of the score to the other, I use them on both ends of the score. I listen for a slight popping sound on one end, go to the other and apply there. This is especially important on long distance scores. Apply the pressure very gradually at first until you're used to the amount that is necessary to cause the break. This is especially important when first cutting curves. Don't try to break the curve from one end of the score line only. Some can be done that way, but it takes experience to know which ones. I would definitely do what Bob suggested. Take a piece of glass, make gentle curves spaced apart at least 1", and break each one. It's also important to check the cut edge for those marks he described. This will tell you if you are applying the right amount of pressure to the score. I believe the Isenberg's book really describes it well. I think you described it correctly, but it bears mentioning how to use breaking/grozing pliers. The motion is not to pull the glass down, but outward. I hold the glass close to my body and use the pliers to pull the scored section away from that piece. The more experienced I became, the less I used the pliers to break. I use the running pliers for most breaks, except for very small sections with narrow widths. I also purchased the Morton Glass Shop. It contains a button which is placed on the Morton cutting surface (a white hard plastic grid where the glass shards and chips falls down into the tiny squares within the grid). The button works like a fulcrum, with a piece to apply the pressure. No need to describe it fully here, as you can look at it at the glass shop. I use this button method when cutting multiple strips so that I don't even have to remove the glass from the table, just slide to to the button, zap it with the "pusher" and the piece is broken clean. Check that out. I really like it. I strongly suggest that you find a glass class in a stained glass shop, as opposed to a community college. Shop owners have tons of experience, and they will teach you tips and tricks you can't imagine. You also develop a working relationship with the owner that will prove to be priceless as you grow in your ability. You will also meet other experienced glass artists, who will most likely share ideas with you as well. Mike Savad's page was one that helped me tremendously. Read all his tips and tricks. He has a very clear way of describing techniques. *Thanks, Mike*! Feel free to email me privately anytime you wish also. I have only done glass for a few months, so I'm always learning new things, and remember very clearly the steps you are taking right now! Good luck! Mary Barry ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 06:22:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 05:44:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mediaone.net!embee From: "Mary" To: "Bungi" Subject: New to Glass/Mortonglass site Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:34:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.4340.0> Precedence: bulk Also, Pamela, check out Mortonglass.com. You'll see the tools I described in my first post, with some explanations. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 07:07:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 06:52:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: "Modiano, Victor" To: 'bungi' , 'Pamela Dimitrovich' Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Cutting Help Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:21:01 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.5211.0> Precedence: bulk Pamela How long it takes depends on how well you cut. The more experienced you are, the better you cut it and the faster it goes. My first project had 39 pieces and it took about five nights of cutting and almost as long foiling. When I did the same pattern 5 years later, it was cut and foiled in less than two nights. Don't get discouraged. Like any skill it takes time and patients to learn. A carpenter/woodworking friend described his skills over the years: "In the beginning my Mom liked what I made. By the end of the first year it looked somewhat decent. By the end of the third year people were willing to pay money for it. By the end of the fifth year I started thinking about it as a profession." I can't remember the rest but it concludes with "After about fifty years I think I finally understood what I was doing and then I actually became good." Vic M. vmodiano@ctronsoft.com -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Dimitrovich [mailto:dimitrovich@wolf.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 12:10 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Cutting Help I am curious about something. How long does it "normally" take to cut = and shape a piece, say, approximately 2" x 3" with maybe a straight line = and a couple of not so tiny curves? Or maybe even a piece of a flower? = Just wondering. Maybe I'm too much of a perfectionist and spend way too = much time getting it "just right". But in my seamstress work, perfect = piecing makes for a better piece overall. I assume the same holds for = stained glass. I wouldn't think that there is any room for any pieces = being "just a little bit off". Sorry for being so long winded, but I'm just busting with questions!=20 'Night. Pamela ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 08:09:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 07:33:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: New to Glass Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:52:52 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.45252.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Pamela Dimitrovich" >I am having a very difficult time cutting. I have a Toyo cutter (the one= =3D with the clear pistol grip handle). My curved scores don't always go =3D where I intend them too. They wander a bit, then I end up with a small =3D= strip of glass to deal with to get to my original cutting line - which I = =3D also find difficult to remove. I have all the required pliers yet I am =3D= not sure as to the proper way to cut and when to remove which excesses =3D= with which pliers - or to grind. ??< A few suggestions for improving your cutting: - make sure the Toyo cutter head is lubricated with oil. Most Toyos leak over time, and we stop filling up the clear handle with the oil. Just keep a small container of oil close by and dip the cutter's head in the oil occassionally. - I use two different types of pliers - one called a breaker/runner and another called a grozier. The breaker/runner has a thickening in the middle of the lower jaw, which acts as a fulcrum when you place the glass in it after scoring. When you press down on the pliers, they apply equal pressure on either side of the score line, snapping the glass along the score. When doing curves, make sure to allign the end of the score just the same as if it were a straight line - i.e. score line perpendicular to the breaker/runner's jaws, right in the middle. Gently "pump" the plier's handles to start the run. Then go to the other end of the score line and "pump" the pliers again to finish the run. You can do this several times to get the score to break cleanly on a curve. This method is especially good for long curved lines. - The grozier is used completely differently from the breaker/runner pliers. The grozier is used to nibble or pull off small chunks of glass from along side a score line. Hold the glass you want to keep in one hand. Bring the grozier in parallel to the score line but do not go over or on top of the score line. Now, with both hands, pull the excess glass away & slightly down from the score line. This is used for removing thin lines and excess glass from inside curves. - Groziers are also used to nibble glass in minute chunks with or without a score line. Let's say you're doing a circle and have scored the circle and all breaking away lines, and have removed the majority of excess glass, but you're left with some little points jutting out from the outside curve. Use the grozier to nibble or gnash away at the little points, just as if you were gnashing your teeth. Sometimes I groze out an entire inside curve area like this without even scoring the inside curve. - All these techniques require practice. But with practice you'll find your time at the grinder becomes less & less, and that is always a good thing! Christie Wood/Art Glass Ensembles 405 E. Walnut St. Rear North Wales, PA 19454 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 09:19:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:32:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: Pamela Dimitrovich Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Cutting Help Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 11:26:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.72615.0> References: <<1999Sep7.20106.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Pamela Dimitrovich wrote: Thanks Mike Savad for your quick response to my questions. I was = fortunate enough to stumble upon your site a few days ago and have = printed off most of your pages. Good night time reading when I'm = tuckered out. I even read several items to my husband. I am impressed = with your history in this craft. Your site has a lot of helpful info. = Thank you and please keep it coming.=20 I am curious about something. How long does it "normally" take to cut = and shape a piece, say, approximately 2" x 3" with maybe a straight line = and a couple of not so tiny curves? Or maybe even a piece of a flower? = Just wondering. Maybe I'm too much of a perfectionist and spend way too = much time getting it "just right". But in my seamstress work, perfect = piecing makes for a better piece overall. I assume the same holds for = stained glass. I wouldn't think that there is any room for any pieces = being "just a little bit off".=20 However, like I said, when I cut a piece, I miss the mark and cannot = seem to get my score right where I intended it to go, then I end up = taking that piece away and am left with many much smaller pieces to get = rid of. I have been practicing with the breaking pliers - to grab it and = pull it off, and the grozing pliers. It just seems like an awful lot of = work to go through when I think maybe I should have been able to cut it = perfectly the first time! Sometimes my running pliers fail to run the = score yet my score is perfectly there, I heard it and I can see it. What = gives with that? Since I can't re-score it, what to do, what to do? BTW, I have been reading past archives for the last couple of hours and = I cannot thank all of you enough for such fabulous info. Major kudos to = the owner of this list!!! I own a Weller 100 and saw many postings in = the archives about it. Thanks for all the tips on the tips. It will come = in handy.=20 I am going to take a class with a co-worker of my husband's and her = daughter. I will be printing off messages in this list for her too. (No = computer of her own).=20 I will look into getting a video, maybe from Delphi. They are close and = shipping should be cheap. I have seen Vicki Payne on crafting shows but = I do not get the PBS show of hers here. At least I have never caught it = if it is aired in the Detroit area. Anyone know if it is?=20 And, thanks Tina for your response too. I agree about the pushiness and = rudeness. I have seen a bit of that. I am totally not that way and I get = a little (quite a bit, actually) sensitive when people treat me like = that. I find that the nicest people I have encountered in this craft are = right here on this list! Hope to see some of you some day at a show or = class or something. Sorry for being so long winded, but I'm just busting with questions!=20 'Night. Pamela it's hard to say about how long, since i never timed that part before. if it's all straight cuts, and the jig is set up, a few seconds, 5-10 maybe. if it's curved like a petal, then it may be more like 10-15 seconds. it depends how tired i am, how sharp the cutter is, how hard the glass is, and so forth. as to following the line that takes practice. since your a seamstress, you'll have most of the hand eye cooridination to follow the lines on the glass. as extra practice, do these 2 things: 1. grab a pen and trace things. it's like making doodles. but it makes those circuts in your brain better. 2. cut things in your head, it actually helps. when cutting, your not looking right at the cutting wheel, your looking at the wheel, and a few inches above. i hold my cuttter like a steak knife, but for extra guidence i put my finger on the cutter head over the wheel. this allows me to get even more accurate. i avoid using the running pliers most of the time. it doesn't give a very good break. ringstar pliers are meant for curves, and they work pretty well, as well as that M-80 that morton makes. most piece are broken by hand. the breaking/grozers, you don't pull, not completly any way. you grab on, and break downward. like breaking a graham cracker. and i found it works best with the curved side up. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 09:42:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:46:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: capecod.net!jaugusta From: Joseph Augusta To: glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Unfair question? Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 11:18:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.71820.0> Precedence: bulk Who, in your opinion, is the "Dale Chihuly" of stained glass? Be honest now, even if the answer is "me"! Web site URL? Best wishes, Joseph ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 10:46:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:06:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Pamela Dimitrovich" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Cutting Help Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:03:30 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.3330.0> Precedence: bulk >>Sometimes my running pliers fail to run the = score yet my score is perfectly there, I heard it and I can see it. What = gives with that? Since I can't re-score it, what to do, what to do?<< It could be that you are using running pliers and do not have the alignment line on the top jaw up and the score up also. In this position the pliers do not pry the glass apart and so nothing happens. It also helps if you score to within 1/8" of the edge. Bob in SOCAL Ps: In a previous post I said something to the effect that you could get scrap 1/8" ordinary window glass for practice and cut it into 1" wide strips. That should have read "one foot wide strips". The idea is to learn to score and run scores that are about one foot long. Be sure to allow about 1/2" of clearance from the edge of the glass to help the run to break off in one piece. After a while you will be able to cut closer to the edge. Pss: Do as Mike said and use a finger to help guide the cutting wheel. It helps and is never considered cheating here. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 11:08:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:06:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stmassociates.com!shigbee From: "Shari Higbee" To: "Bungi" Subject: Lead Repair Completed Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:25:50 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.32550.0> Precedence: bulk Just wanted to send a follow-up on my lead repair project. Decided to tackle it last weekend, deciding the lifting or cutting the lead and just replacing the one piece was obviously the easiest way to go. I must have spent at least an hour trying to lift the lead with absolutely no success. I tried everything I could think of but couldn't get underneath it with anything strong enough to bend it out of place. Then I went for the cutting idea--and had the same lack of success. My little razor knife was no where near strong enough to cut through the lead came. Finally, just seconds away from bagging the whole project and taking it to the "professionals" to fix, I decided to try to long version of repair. I cut the zinc frame on both sides and pried the top 1' off, then loosened the sides to where I could get the broken piece out. I broke one add'l piece in the process, but replaced both and didn't have much trouble putting it all back together. Now, other than the ugly soldering on the zinc (which is pretty much covered in the installation) you can't tell it was ever operated on. A photo of the panel (pre-repair) is located at http://www.intrastar.net/~ssuter/shari/LeadProject1.jpg The panel is about 5' tall and 2' wide. The broken piece is the pointed crown shaped piece at the top of the 2nd quadrant from the top. The small 4-pt star under it broke during the process. Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions. Any ideas on what I did wrong on the "lifting" concept. What do you use to get under the lead to lift after you've cemented? Shari ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 11:12:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:39:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: capecod.net!jaugusta From: Joseph Augusta To: glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Blenko psychology tips? Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 13:37:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.93711.0> Precedence: bulk Anyone have any tips on dealing with Blenko? It's been a while since I placed an order with them and "they'll try to get to it this week" for at least the 3rd week in a row. Of course, they told me I'm welcome to "come by and pick it up for yourself" ---I'm on Cape Cod---and yes, they do know that! Best wishes, Joseph ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 11:31:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:41:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stmassociates.com!shigbee From: "Shari Higbee" To: "Bungi" Subject: Lead Repair Completed Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:25:50 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.32550.0> Precedence: bulk Just wanted to send a follow-up on my lead repair project. Decided to tackle it last weekend, deciding the lifting or cutting the lead and just replacing the one piece was obviously the easiest way to go. I must have spent at least an hour trying to lift the lead with absolutely no success. I tried everything I could think of but couldn't get underneath it with anything strong enough to bend it out of place. Then I went for the cutting idea--and had the same lack of success. My little razor knife was no where near strong enough to cut through the lead came. Finally, just seconds away from bagging the whole project and taking it to the "professionals" to fix, I decided to try to long version of repair. I cut the zinc frame on both sides and pried the top 1' off, then loosened the sides to where I could get the broken piece out. I broke one add'l piece in the process, but replaced both and didn't have much trouble putting it all back together. Now, other than the ugly soldering on the zinc (which is pretty much covered in the installation) you can't tell it was ever operated on. A photo of the panel (pre-repair) is located at http://www.intrastar.net/~ssuter/shari/LeadProject1.jpg The panel is about 5' tall and 2' wide. The broken piece is the pointed crown shaped piece at the top of the 2nd quadrant from the top. The small 4-pt star under it broke during the process. Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions. Any ideas on what I did wrong on the "lifting" concept. What do you use to get under the lead to lift after you've cemented? Shari ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 11:39:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:26:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Joseph Augusta Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Unfair question? Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:24:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.92415.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Joseph Augusta >Who, in your opinion, is the "Dale Chihuly" of stained glass?< Who is Dale Chihuly? LOL. Ask most folks in Europe and they'll give you a blank look. Heck, ask most folks in America and they'll give you a blank look! Makes you re- consider the expression, "internationally renowned". Best regards, Dani Greer Internationally unknown glass artist ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 11:46:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:27:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet From: "Karen" To: "Bungi List" Subject: Re: Cutting Help Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:20:28 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.82028.0> Precedence: bulk Pam, I live south of Holland.. If you are not too far away you could stop by someday and I could work with you on cutting.. I am far from a pro but have been doing glass since 1995.. Also Vicki Paynes show is on at 1:30 on Sat afternoons here, CH 35/54 Karen -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Dimitrovich <dimitrovich@wolf..net> To: glass@bungi..com <glass@bungi..com> Date: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 12:57 AM Subject: Cutting Help >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.. > >------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BEF98E..817A49E0 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >Thanks Mike Savad for your quick response to my questions.. I was = >fortunate enough to stumble upon your site a few days ago and have = >printed off most of your pages.. Good night time reading when I'm = >tuckered out.. I even read several items to my husband.. I am impressed = >with your history in this craft.. Your site has a lot of helpful info.. = >Thank you and please keep it coming..=20 > >I am curious about something.. How long does it "normally" take to cut = >and shape a piece, say, approximately 2" x 3" with maybe a straight line = >and a couple of not so tiny curves? Or maybe even a piece of a flower? = >Just wondering.. Maybe I'm too much of a perfectionist and spend way too = >much time getting it "just right".. But in my seamstress work, perfect = >piecing makes for a better piece overall.. I assume the same holds for = >stained glass.. I wouldn't think that there is any room for any pieces = >being "just a little bit off"..=20 > >However, like I said, when I cut a piece, I miss the mark and cannot = >seem to get my score right where I intended it to go, then I end up = >taking that piece away and am left with many much smaller pieces to get = >rid of.. I have been practicing with the breaking pliers - to grab it and = >pull it off, and the grozing pliers.. It just seems like an awful lot of = >work to go through when I think maybe I should have been able to cut it = >perfectly the first time! Sometimes my running pliers fail to run the = >score yet my score is perfectly there, I heard it and I can see it.. What = >gives with that? Since I can't re-score it, what to do, what to do? > >BTW, I have been reading past archives for the last couple of hours and = >I cannot thank all of you enough for such fabulous info.. Major kudos to = >the owner of this list!!! I own a Weller 100 and saw many postings in = >the archives about it.. Thanks for all the tips on the tips.. It will come = >in handy..=20 > >I am going to take a class with a co-worker of my husband's and her = >daughter.. I will be printing off messages in this list for her too.. (No = >computer of her own)..=20 > >I will look into getting a video, maybe from Delphi.. They are close and = >shipping should be cheap.. I have seen Vicki Payne on crafting shows but = >I do not get the PBS show of hers here.. At least I have never caught it = >if it is aired in the Detroit area.. Anyone know if it is?=20 > >And, thanks Tina for your response too.. I agree about the pushiness and = >rudeness.. I have seen a bit of that.. I am totally not that way and I get = >a little (quite a bit, actually) sensitive when people treat me like = >that.. I find that the nicest people I have encountered in this craft are = >right here on this list! Hope to see some of you some day at a show or = >class or something.. > >Sorry for being so long winded, but I'm just busting with questions!=20 > >'Night.. > >Pamela > >------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BEF98E..817A49E0 >Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> ><HTML> ><HEAD> > ><META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = >http-equiv=3DContent-Type> ><META content=3D'"MSHTML 4..72..3110..7"' name=3DGENERATOR> ></HEAD> ><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> ><DIV><FONT color=3D#008080 face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>Thanks Mike = >Savad for your=20 >quick response to my questions.. I was fortunate enough to stumble upon = >your site=20 >a few days ago and have printed off most of your pages.. Good night time = >reading=20 >when I'm tuckered out.. I even read several items to my husband.. I am = >impressed=20 >with your history in this craft.. Your site has a lot of helpful info.. = >Thank you=20 >and please keep it coming.. </FONT></DIV> ><DIV><FONT color=3D#008080 face=3D"Arial Narrow" = >size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> ><DIV><FONT color=3D#008080 face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>I am curious = >about=20 >something.. How long does it &quot;normally&quot; take to cut and shape a = >piece,=20 >say, approximately 2&quot; x 3&quot; with maybe a straight line and a = >couple of=20 >not so tiny curves? Or maybe even a piece of a flower? Just wondering.. = >Maybe I'm=20 >too much of a perfectionist and spend way too much time getting it = >&quot;just=20 >right&quot;.. But in my seamstress work, perfect piecing makes for a = >better piece=20 >overall.. I assume the same holds for stained glass.. I wouldn't think = >that there=20 >is any room for any pieces being &quot;just a little bit off&quot;..=20 ></FONT></DIV> ><DIV><FONT color=3D#008080 face=3D"Arial Narrow" = >size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> ><DIV><FONT color=3D#008080 face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>However, like = >I said, when I=20 >cut a piece, I miss the mark and cannot seem to get my score right where = >I=20 >intended it to go, then I end up taking that piece away and am left with = >many=20 >much smaller pieces to get rid of.. I have been practicing with the = >breaking=20 >pliers - to grab it and pull it off, and the grozing pliers.. It just = >seems like=20 >an awful lot of work to go through when I think maybe I should have been = >able to=20 >cut it perfectly the first time! Sometimes my running pliers fail to run = >the=20 >score yet my score is perfectly there, I heard it and I can see it.. What = >gives=20 >with that? Since I can't re-score it, what to do, what to = >do?</FONT></DIV> ><DIV><FONT color=3D#008080 face=3D"Arial Narrow" = >size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> ><DIV><FONT color=3D#008080 face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>BTW, I have = >been reading=20 >past archives for the last couple of hours and I cannot thank all of you = >enough=20 >for such fabulous info.. Major kudos to the owner of this list!!! I own a = >Weller=20 >100 and saw many postings in the archives about it.. Thanks for all the = >tips on=20 >the tips.. It will come in handy.. </FONT></DIV> ><DIV><FONT color=3D#008080 face=3D"Arial Narrow" = >size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> ><DIV><FONT color=3D#008080 face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>I am going to = >take a class=20 >with a co-worker of my husband's and her daughter.. I will be printing = >off=20 >messages in this list for her too.. (No computer of her own).. = ></FONT></DIV> ><DIV><FONT color=3D#008080 face=3D"Arial Narrow" = >size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> ><DIV><FONT color=3D#008080 face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>I will look = >into getting a=20 >video, maybe from Delphi.. They are close and shipping should be cheap.. I = >have=20 >seen Vicki Payne on crafting shows but I do not get the PBS show of hers = >here..=20 >At least I have never caught it if it is aired in the Detroit area.. = >Anyone know=20 >if it is? </FONT></DIV> ><DIV><FONT color=3D#008080 face=3D"Arial Narrow" = >size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> ><DIV><FONT color=3D#008080 face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>And, thanks = >Tina for your=20 >response too.. I agree about the pushiness and rudeness.. I have seen a = >bit of=20 >that.. I am totally not that way and I get a little (quite a bit, = >actually)=20 >sensitive when people treat me like that.. I find that the nicest people = >I have=20 >encountered in this craft are right here on this list! Hope to see some = >of you=20 >some day at a show or class or something..</FONT></DIV> ><DIV><FONT color=3D#008080 face=3D"Arial Narrow" = >size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> ><DIV><FONT color=3D#008080 face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>Sorry for = >being so long=20 >winded, but I'm just busting with questions! </FONT></DIV> ><DIV><FONT color=3D#008080 face=3D"Arial Narrow" = >size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> ><DIV><FONT color=3D#008080 face=3D"Arial Narrow" = >size=3D2>'Night..</FONT></DIV> ><DIV><FONT color=3D#008080 face=3D"Arial Narrow" = >size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> ><DIV><FONT color=3D#008080 face=3D"Arial Narrow"=20 >size=3D2>Pamela</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> > >------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BEF98E..817A49E0-- > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi..com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi..com >Archives available at http://www..bungi..com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 11:52:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:58:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stmassociates.com!shigbee From: "Shari Higbee" To: "Bungi" Subject: Lead Repair Completed Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:25:50 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.32550.0> Precedence: bulk Just wanted to send a follow-up on my lead repair project. Decided to tackle it last weekend, deciding the lifting or cutting the lead and just replacing the one piece was obviously the easiest way to go. I must have spent at least an hour trying to lift the lead with absolutely no success. I tried everything I could think of but couldn't get underneath it with anything strong enough to bend it out of place. Then I went for the cutting idea--and had the same lack of success. My little razor knife was no where near strong enough to cut through the lead came. Finally, just seconds away from bagging the whole project and taking it to the "professionals" to fix, I decided to try to long version of repair. I cut the zinc frame on both sides and pried the top 1' off, then loosened the sides to where I could get the broken piece out. I broke one add'l piece in the process, but replaced both and didn't have much trouble putting it all back together. Now, other than the ugly soldering on the zinc (which is pretty much covered in the installation) you can't tell it was ever operated on. A photo of the panel (pre-repair) is located at http://www.intrastar.net/~ssuter/shari/LeadProject1.jpg The panel is about 5' tall and 2' wide. The broken piece is the pointed crown shaped piece at the top of the 2nd quadrant from the top. The small 4-pt star under it broke during the process. Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions. Any ideas on what I did wrong on the "lifting" concept. What do you use to get under the lead to lift after you've cemented? Shari ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 12:10:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:16:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: Joseph Augusta Subject: Re: Unfair question? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:15:52 +0000 Message-ID: <199909081814.OAA09333@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Who, in your opinion, is the "Dale Chihuly" of stained glass? Be > honest now, even if the answer is "me"! Web site URL? James ("Jamie") Carpenter, hands down. How about domes of dichroic glass that span entire city blocks? Oh, waitaminnit ... Bryan Clarke: entire city blocks covered with glass; lives next door to Paul & Linda McCartney; very successful ... make that *hugely successful: $$$ expensive work. There's not much about him online except his gallery representation, no images that I could find except http://www.stainedglass.org/main_pages/magazine_pages/abbaye.html Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 13:12:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:34:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Shari Higbee" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Lead Repair Completed Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:01:22 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.11122.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Shari Higbee" >I tried everything I could think of but couldn't get underneath it with anything strong enough to bend it out of place. Then I went for the cutting idea--and had the same lack of success. My little razor knife was no where near strong enough to cut through the lead came. < If the lead had a very narrow leaf, it is very difficult to = lift.... and you really must have a dremel tool with cut-off wheels to efficiently cut through the lead.... or a very very sharp lead knife like in the olden days. Anything else is just an exercise in frustration.... The dried cement must be scraped out from under the lead as much as possible before attempting to lift the lead leaf. We often spray the edges of the lead with WD-40 to slightly soften the cement if possible and make it easier to remove. If nothing seems to budge the cement, you are dealing with a batch that originally contained Portland cement in its mixture and hardly anything will budge that... precisely why so many windows of this century are in such poor condition = and very difficult to repair. Don't worry about the ugly = solder joint on the zinc.... better to solder as best you can since solder joints tend to fail more rapidly on zinc than on lead. Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 13:43:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:00:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "bungi" Subject: Fw: Unfair question? Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:29:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.92911.0> Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: Linda Jo Letscher To: Joseph Augusta Date: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 1:28 PM Subject: Re: Unfair question? >I think I have to wait until the person dies before I decide if their work >is great. Isn't that how it works. IMHO art is in the eye of the beholder. >Linda Jo > > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 14:04:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:08:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "bungi" Subject: Fw: Unfair question? Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:29:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.92911.0> Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: Linda Jo Letscher To: Joseph Augusta Date: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 1:28 PM Subject: Re: Unfair question? >I think I have to wait until the person dies before I decide if their work >is great. Isn't that how it works. IMHO art is in the eye of the beholder. >Linda Jo > > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 14:47:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:05:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie_Spitzer From: "Spitzer, Charlie" To: "'Mary'" , Pamela Dimitrovich , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: New to Glass Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:40:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.10405.0> Precedence: bulk > -----Original Message----- > From: Mary [mailto:embee@mediaone.net] > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 5:32 AM > To: Pamela Dimitrovich; glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: New to Glass > > I strongly suggest that you find a glass class in a stained > glass shop, as > opposed to a community college. Shop owners have tons of > experience, and > they will teach you tips and tricks you can't imagine. You > also develop a > working relationship with the owner that will prove to be > priceless as you > grow in your ability. You will also meet other experienced > glass artists, > who will most likely share ideas with you as well. well, i take issue with the above statement. you really don't have any idea who is teaching at a community college, let alone know near where the recipient is located. as a matter of fact, i would hazard a guess that college teachers might know more about it than someone working in a shop, depending upon the shop. after all, their livelihood is dependent upon actually selling some art, and not selling supplies. the teachers i've come across teaching in college are usually artists not affiliated with any particular shop, and ones who might know more about s.g. because they're more interested in sharing with people, and may not be more interested in making some sale of whatever is fashionable to have for supplies. dani greer comes to immediate mind. she's pretty active in teaching at a college in colorado springs, but doesn't have a retail shop and probably doesn't sell supplies. as an example, there are 3 shops within a 30 mile radius of my house, in different directions. the closest is also owned by the grouchiest. in speaking with the owner of the 2nd, he stated that the owner of the first one is his best cause of business. unfortunately, the 3rd is the nicest, but is also about 50% more expensive than the first. the artist's i learned from were at my local community college. it also was much cheaper taking a class there. regards, charlie phx, az ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 15:07:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:25:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!ACASADO From: ACASADO@webtv.net (ALI CASADO) To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: hairline crack Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:21:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep8.132131.0> Precedence: bulk I just finished refusing a double layer of 14" diameter fusable glass. The first time I fused it, it fused fine except the edges were not fully rounded, (that was at 1350 & held for 5 minutes). Thinking that was not hot enough to fully round the edges, I fused it to 1400 and held it for 5 minutes. I just took it out of the kiln and there is a hairline crack across the piece. You cannot feel it, but you definately can see it. Do you think the temp. was too high? Also, how can I rectify the situation & cover it up? I also wanted to slump it in a shallow platter, but do you think this will break the glass completely? This plate took me alot of time to do, and I used dichroic glass between the two glasses. So it was costly also. Please help. Thanks Ali ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 15:16:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:53:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet From: "Karen" To: "Bungi List" Subject: Cutting Help Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:48:46 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.124846.0> Precedence: bulk For those of you who didn't get a clear message, I am resending this. Pam, I live south of Holland. If you are not too far away you could stop by someday and I could work with you on cutting. I am far from a pro but have been doing glass since 1995. Also Vicki Paynes show is on at 1:30 on Sat afternoons here, CH 35/54 Karen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 15:32:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:30:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stmassociates.com!shigbee From: "Shari Higbee" To: "Bungi" Subject: NG test Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:32:57 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.73257.0> Precedence: bulk I got 3 copies of my last email I sent to Bungi, so I'm sending another msg to see if the same thing happens. Any idea why it (my computer / system / server / ISP) would send it 3 times? Did others get it 3 times? Shari ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 15:52:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:34:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie_Spitzer From: "Spitzer, Charlie" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: New to Glass Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:46:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.104614.0> Precedence: bulk musician to new york bystander: 'how do i get to carnegie hall?' response: practice it's probably not possible to learn this with only a few hours of work. it can take weeks, months, or even years. it's just something that gets easier, better, and faster the more you do it. likewise, it's much easier to climb the learning curve watching someone else do it than to try to learn from books or descriptions from people here. i'm not saying it's impossible to do so (my wife taught herself to sail pretty well from reading books and practicing), but it is a lot harder to do it that way. regards, charlie phx, az ps: please turn off the mime and html in your mail sender. it's really hard to read that version. > -----Original Message----- > From: Pamela Dimitrovich [mailto:dimitrovich@wolf.net] > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 6:25 PM > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: New to Glass > > Hi everyone. I happened upon this list 2 days ago and immediately = > subscribed. Then I went through several archives and found more = > information that I have in all my books combined. I am > impressed with = > the level of information that all of you provide. I look forward to = > utilizing the tips and techniques I find on this list. > > Until I can get into a beginner's class (October 19th) I am > trying to = > teach myself how to work with both the foil and lead. I made a small = > picture frame over the weekend (foiled) and have cut the > pieces for a = > small panel (lead). I must say, I have an awful lot to learn.=20 > > All of you sound extremely experienced and I hope that you > don't mind = > questions from someone as green as myself. I really need the advice = > though.=20 > > I have been yearning to learn to work with stained glass for over 20 = > years. Now that the kids are grown and gone and I am home all > the time = > now, I have the time. I went out and bought nearly everything I need = > last Friday plus a few square feet of glass. I think I am > ending up with = > more materials for mosaics than panels!=20 > > I am having a very difficult time cutting. I have a Toyo > cutter (the one = > with the clear pistol grip handle). My curved scores don't always go = > where I intend them too. They wander a bit, then I end up > with a small = > strip of glass to deal with to get to my original cutting > line - which I = > also find difficult to remove. I have all the required pliers > yet I am = > not sure as to the proper way to cut and when to remove which > excesses = > with which pliers - or to grind. ?? > > I have been scouring the internet for various hints and tips. > I haven't = > found what I need yet on cutting curves (outer and inner). I > bought the = > Inland Wiz grinder but am afraid that my poor cutting skills > leaves me = > with too much glass to remove on the grinder. I'll be going > through too = > many bits if I don't learn this soon. Having never actually watched = > someone cut several pieces and fit them to a pattern, I have > no idea how = > long it should be taking me to prepare a piece of glass that > is cut to = > the right shape/size. > > Please do not be too critical of me for my elementary questions and = > comments. I really need help. I am quite accomplished at many other = > crafts/arts and am self taught in all of these. So, you are > not dealing = > with someone who is unable to grasp concepts and apply them.=20 > > I was criticized quite harshly at the store where I purchased > my initial = > motherlode of glass "toys" for thinking I could learn this on > my own. (I = > had every intention of taking a class - just not at that > store) I almost = > returned everything for a refund and was going to give up the > dream of = > creating those wonderful stained glass works I desire to > learn to make. = > But, no. I have been wanting to do this for far too long to let one = > person crush me like that. > > So, I read everything I can, then practice what I read. I > have improved = > a little from my first hours at this. But, right now my > questions deal = > with the actual cutting of the glass. Does anyone know of a web site = > with good pictures or can someone detail to me some hints that I may = > need? I am sure everyone who cut glass for the first time had some = > questions like me.=20 > > I appreciate any information anyone can provide. I look forward to = > reading all of your postings. Thanks. > > Pamela ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 15:52:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:08:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "glass" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Fw: Unfair question? Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 16:39:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.123929.0> Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: pj friend To: Joseph Augusta Date: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 4:38 PM Subject: Re: Unfair question? >Well I don't know if he is a Dale whodoolie or not. But I really admire his >work and his talent. >Take a look and tell me what you think. >Paul probably has a different choice but this one is mine. >John K. Clark >http://members.aol.com/clarkglass/index.html > > >my best, > >pj > >Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. >www.waterw.com/~artglass >Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America >Member International Guild of Glass Artists >Associate Member AIA >-----Original Message----- >From: Joseph Augusta >To: glass >Date: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 1:05 PM >Subject: Unfair question? > > >>Who, in your opinion, is the "Dale Chihuly" of stained glass? Be honest >>now, even if the answer is "me"! Web site URL? >> >>Best wishes, >>Joseph >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 16:23:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:26:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: New to Glass Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 18:27:52 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.142752.0> References: <<1999Sep7.172451.0>> Precedence: bulk Pamela, There are some wonderful glass artists who are self taught. (Isn't Bob Oddy self-taught?...Pamela, go find his Web page immediately for inspiration http://www.servtech.com/~rnoddy), but I suspect the technical part will be easier with some classes. Still and all, practice always improves one, so be patient. Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 16:40:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:53:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mediaone.net!embee From: "Mary" To: "Bungi" Subject: College vs. Studio Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:44:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.144454.0> Precedence: bulk I feel that I must apologize for my remarks concerning whether to attend a college course or learn stained glass in a studio setting. I have been called to task for my remark by two people, and I certainly understand their viewpoint. While I still feel that I have received the better instruction by finding professionals who give classes in their studios, I recognize that there are many fine teachers in college art courses. My opinion is based upon the fact that both the pottery and stained glass classes offered at our community college are not nearly as thorough as the ones I took from artists who made their living in those fields. They tended to be geared more toward the "craft" aspect of the art rather than the intricacy of the technique. Certainly this is my own opinion, and I will be more careful in the future to preface my remarks. Sincerely, Mary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 16:51:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:54:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Blenko psychology tips? Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 18:32:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.143216.0> References: <<1999Sep8.93711.0>> Precedence: bulk Cape Cod to W VA....hmm, just hop and skip away. Of course, this thread title is the kind of thing that awakens Emeraldine. Dorothy Joseph Augusta wrote: > Anyone have any tips on dealing with Blenko? It's been a while since I > placed an order with them and "they'll try to get to it this week" for > at least the 3rd week in a row. Of course, they told me I'm welcome to > "come by and pick it up for yourself" ---I'm on Cape Cod---and yes, they > do know that! > > Best wishes, > Joseph > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 16:56:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:28:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Spitzer, Charlie" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: New to Glass Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:26:22 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.142622.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Spitzer, Charlie" >nip> > I strongly suggest that you find a glass class in a stained = > glass shop, as > opposed to a community college.< I also disagree since I teach at a community college on occasion.... the college level will often give you more professional training since they haven't any particular vested interested in keeping you forever as a student.... you may also have pre-requisites like Drawing or Design courses as well as Fine Arts History.... this = additional knowledge will make you a better artist, = and most certainly a better professional if you choose to make a living at stained glass. Folks may like to believe that art is in the eye of the beholder, but formal training goes a long way toward giving you the edge over the competition.... don't let anyone tell you otherwise. There are no Michelangelos today because few have the opportunity for that quality of training from such a young age. Further, many college instructors are "adjunct faculty" which means they make their livings doing what they teach in the college classroom.... so you get the best of both worlds: real life experience and someone who is good enough at teaching to teach at the higher education level. My philosophy of teaching is this: Train your competition. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.igga.org/greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 17:14:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:28:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: "Linda Jo Letscher" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Unfair question? Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:22:48 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.82248.0> References: <<1999Sep8.92911.0>> Organization: weaver51@teleport.com Precedence: bulk How about Paul and Howard Paul Crist....SINGLE-HANDEDLY responsible for ALL of us being able to make ACCURATE (to the original) shades and a lot of research as well as quality hardware. Howard Worden ALLOWING the masses to afford to make shades (usually stylized a bit). A GRAB at a specific part of MY anatomy for finding yet another technology to export to the countries where the cost of labor is almost zero, so as to have them come back to us as a CHEAP assembled product. Do not overlook the sending of OUR bronze and antique lamp bases, so those too, can be reproduced a cheap "copies".....One notable thing about the castings, there seems to be NO bottom to the lack of quality. I for one, probably benefit, as those who see a lot of GARBAGE imports, and can afford one of mine, tend to appreciate the difference and EVEN buy one occasionally. YES they both get my vote!!!!! enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com Elaine and Howard best lamps on the "net": http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 17:19:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:37:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: Joseph Augusta Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Unfair question? Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 17:47:43 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.134743.0> References: <<1999Sep8.71820.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Joseph Augusta wrote: > > Who, in your opinion, is the "Dale Chihuly" of stained glass? Be honest > now, even if the answer is "me"! Web site URL? > > Best wishes, > Joseph > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i believe i fit that role: http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/ however tiffany is a better example since chihuly does blown glass - unless that's what you meant. or if we were comparing ourselves to chihuly that would mean that we don't build it, someone else does, we just take the credit for having the vision... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 17:23:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 16:06:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Brian Shepherd" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Unfair question? Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:09:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.1493.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Brian Shepherd" >I think the question was who is his equivalent in stained glass!< Now here is a loaded question.... who is his better in stained glass? For that matter, forget Dale Chihuly... who do you think is the BEST stained glass artist alive today?? Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 17:37:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 16:38:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ghostman.com!candy From: "Candy Thurman" To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Unfair question? Date: Wed, 08 Sep 99 05:30:09 Message-ID: <199909082336.RAA05928@mantis.privatei.com> Precedence: bulk What, not Quagliata??? Candy On Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:15:52 +0000, Albert Lewis wrote: > >> Who, in your opinion, is the "Dale Chihuly" of stained glass? Be >> honest now, even if the answer is "me"! Web site URL? > >James ("Jamie") Carpenter, hands down. How about domes of dichroic >glass that span entire city blocks? > >Oh, waitaminnit ... Bryan Clarke: entire city blocks covered with >glass; lives next door to Paul & Linda McCartney; very successful ... >make that *hugely successful: $$$ expensive work. There's not much >about him online except his gallery representation, no images that I >could find except > >http://www.stainedglass.org/main_pages/magazine_pages/abbaye.html > > > >Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 17:53:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:04:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "ALI CASADO" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: hairline crack Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 16:29:44 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.92944.0> Precedence: bulk >>). Thinking that was not hot enough to fully round the edges, I fused it to 1400 and held it for 5 minutes. I just took it out of the kiln and there is a hairline crack across the piece. You cannot feel it, but you definately can see it. Do you think the temp. was too high? Also, how can I rectify the situation & cover it up?<< It sounds like you went up to fast on the second firing and that cracked the glass. When re firing it is necessary to take into account the new increased thickness of the glass and slow the heating schedule. High temperatures do not crack glass. Due to the glass becoming plastic it is impossible to crack glass over about 950'F. I have poor results in trying to heat repair objects of this type. Better to see what you can do to use the fragments or use as a display piece. You can still slump the piece but the crack will still show and is not likely to heal perfectly at even high fusing temperatures. Bob in SOCAL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 18:40:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:41:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Unfair question? Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 20:34:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.163457.0> References: <<1999Sep8.1493.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Dani Greer wrote: > > Message text written by "Brian Shepherd" > >I think the question was who is his equivalent in stained glass!< > > Now here is a loaded question.... who is his better > in stained glass? For that matter, forget Dale > Chihuly... who do you think is the BEST stained > glass artist alive today?? > > Best, > > Dani Greer > Greer Gallery & Studios > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass that would be me again... :) http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/ ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 19:30:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:39:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: capecod.net!jaugusta From: Joseph Augusta To: Family Account Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Blenko psychology tips? Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 20:34:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.163420.0> References: <<1999Sep8.143216.0>> Precedence: bulk Family Account wrote: > Cape Cod to W VA....hmm, just hop and skip away. Of course, this thread > title is the kind of thing that awakens Emeraldine. > Dorothy > Huh? And it's 808.6 miles as the crow drives. Best wishes, Joseph ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 20:02:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:09:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "Mike Savad" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Unfair question? Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:01:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.1818.0> Precedence: bulk Thats funny mike!!! >> Now here is a loaded question.... who is his better >> in stained glass? For that matter, forget Dale >> Chihuly... who do you think is the BEST stained >> glass artist alive today?? >> >> Best, >> >> Dani Greer >> Greer Gallery & Studios >> >> ---- >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > >that would be me again... :) http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/ > >---Mike Savad > >-- >Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos >http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 >2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance >Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification >too and A Look at Sky City >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 20:26:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:10:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Mary" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: College vs. Studio Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:16:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.171624.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Mary" >I feel that I must apologize for my remarks concerning whether to attend= a college course or learn stained glass in a studio setting.< Don't apologize on my account, Mary, though I certainly appreciate your sensitivity and manners! My guess is that each situation must be judged independently.... = there are lousy teachers and good teachers and they show up everywhere... and not necessarily in colleges or universities. I just feel that the curriculum requirements in a higher education environment will enable students to get some information that they might not ordinarily receive by their own choice.... like art history... and drawing.... LOL. Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 20:48:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:17:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!ARTIZ01 From: ARTIZ01@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Shipping and packaging Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:14:07 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep9.2147.0> Precedence: bulk I am bidding on a large order of stained glass windows. It consists of 15 to 20 windows. They will have to be shipped, They will be insulated and each would weigh approx.35 - 50# Has anyone ever crated and shipped this many windows, if so, How should I crate them? Do you know how to figure crating charges? Do you know how much room to allow for each window. Also what is the best packing? Any help would very much be appreciated. I am just new to Bungi so hope this gets where it is to go. Thanks Bunny ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 21:05:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:30:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!cecnralph From: Cecily and Ralph Wood To: Bungi Glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Subject: Re: New to Glass Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 22:37:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.183748.0> Organization: Grendel Studios Precedence: bulk Summation paragraph first - read the rest if you are interested: To get started, yes take a class or two, and take it from the handiest source - the easiest location to get to, the cheapest or most affordable, from someone whose work you admire or someone who is upbeat and a great encourager. Then, if you have a hunger to go on and get more training, you will know enough to know what you need and where to find it. You may be lucky enough to find a community college that has classes in stained glass. In Michigan, you might find those classes offered by the local school system. In Maryland, the community colleges sometimes also do the "evening classes" offered in schools because the public schools don't. Some community colleges in Maryland don't do any of that, and in California they cannot, by law, offer classes to college graduates! Another source of beginning instruction can be your local Parks and Rec programs. That is how my daughter and I got involved, and once we got into it we realized we were "naturals". We took further classes from our original instructor, and I have since taken classes from some of the local shops whose work we've admired. I've also made it a point to go to the really high quality juried shows and look at what the successful people are doing ( and talk to them if they have a slack moment). Check out the glass places in your area, and then take classes from those you admire. You may find that your beginning classes and instructor(s) specialize in things you don't particularly care for. That's fine. Most places can get you started, and once you know you want to continue, you can go in any direction you want. Remember - you don't have to do "fine art", you don't have to be a designer, you don't have to specialize (although that may be cheaper in the long run), you don't have to open a shop, make crafts, become "Production Lady" with 500 of the same trinket, or even sell anything, but you do need to get a whale of a bang at the final product. I derive much satisfation from designing my own works, and I'm drawn to larger panels, windows, and want to know it all so I can incorporate a lot of various techniques into my work. But at my age, I don't really need the backgrounding in art. I'm confident and I'm good and getting better. For me, I need the techniques. On the other hand, my daughter is very much more modest in designing, and either uses published designs, adapts quilt designs, or other ready-made materials. In time I think she too will design her own, but she isn't ready yet. Still, she is by far the better craftsman. She cuts better than I, she solders better, etc. I think she'd like more formal art training. Of course, both of use work full time, and pay mortgages, etc. so what we actually get and accomplish is nothing like what we'd like. Good luck and have fun! - Cec -- ********************************************************************* * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) ********************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 21:07:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:46:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!mschatee From: mschatee@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: A ? about Flux Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 22:37:38 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep9.23738.0> Precedence: bulk I have a few questions. Does Flux have a shelf life? How long is too long to have a bottle on the shelf. How often should you change the brush? I'm wondering because I bought my supplies 2 years ago and still haven't finished my first bottle of flux ( I'm just a hobbyist), should I buy a fresh bottle? I did a lot of glass this summer since last summer I didn't do any. I decided that the basement was the coolest place in the house and it inspired me to work on glass. I plan on doing it regularly now and was even thinking today that I need to start working on Christmas presents already. Oh by the way, any of you with young children here's an idea for your kids teachers as gifts. Yesterday was our first day of school ( I am a teacher) and I made and gave 9 red apple suncatchers to all the teachers in my department and welcome gifts for a few of the new teachers in the school. Well you would have thought I gave them a big raise or something, they were so excited especially knowing that I made them myself. I also wrote their names on them with a gold marking pen. Now we all have apples in our windows in the hallway (can you tell I am proud of myself). They were so easy, I just drew an apple from my head. Used scrap glass for the stems and leaves and bingo....teacher gifts. Remember that for Christmas and end of year gifts. I know as a teacher I would have loved to have received one of them from my kids. Thanks for the answers to the flux questions. Back to lurking. Caren ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 21:19:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:10:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "Candy Thurman" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Unfair question? Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:29:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.172939.0> Precedence: bulk Narcissus Quagliata's new work is pretty incredible. Although not really classified as stained glass. More painted and fused. pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists Associate Member AIA -----Original Message----- From: Candy Thurman To: glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 8:59 PM Subject: Re: Unfair question? >What, not Quagliata??? >Candy > >On Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:15:52 +0000, Albert Lewis wrote: > >> >>> Who, in your opinion, is the "Dale Chihuly" of stained glass? Be >>> honest now, even if the answer is "me"! Web site URL? >> >>James ("Jamie") Carpenter, hands down. How about domes of dichroic >>glass that span entire city blocks? >> >>Oh, waitaminnit ... Bryan Clarke: entire city blocks covered with >>glass; lives next door to Paul & Linda McCartney; very successful ... >>make that *hugely successful: $$$ expensive work. There's not much >>about him online except his gallery representation, no images that I >>could find except >> >>http://www.stainedglass.org/main_pages/magazine_pages/abbaye.html >> >> >> >>Albert > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 8 21:36:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:10:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "Joseph Augusta" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Fw: Unfair question? Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:18:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.17180.0> Precedence: bulk Don't have a clue to what is statement of the Falklands is. But his artistic ability is quite interesting to say the least. BTW, I personally think d.c. is overrated and there are much better hot glass artist than him. Its just his marketing ability that sells his work. And all that mystique. So as for John Clark. I happen to enjoy looking at his work and would really like to meet him personally to converse about his glass painting techniques and his views on glass in the new millieumn. Unlike d.c. whom I have met and conversed with and really walked away quite empty from it. Oh well. Just the reason there is vanilla , chocolate and pistachio. I happen to be a pistachio lover. I also think that describing his work (John Clark) as a bit arcane is a tad arcane. So do tell mr. augusta who is your dale choohoolie of stained glass? my best, pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists Associate Member AIA -----Original Message----- From: Joseph Augusta To: pj friend Cc: glass Date: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 8:31 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Unfair question? >pj friend wrote: > >> . >> >Take a look and tell me what you think. >> >Paul probably has a different choice but this one is mine. >> >John K. Clark >> >http://members.aol.com/clarkglass/index.html > >Interesting, though a bit arcane. His Falklands panel--does this refer to the >brief skirmish between the UK and Argentina? > >Best wishes, >Joseph > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 00:07:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:04:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: wolf.net!dimitrovich From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Thank You! Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 01:07:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.2178.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01BEFA5F.A3B46BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I cannot tell you how touched I am that so many of you responded to my = message with such optimism and love of stained glass. I received so many = helpful and detailed tips from so many of you. Too numerous to list = here. I will be trying out all of these tips out tomorrow.=20 I did go to a shop today where I will be taking a class and the owner is = fabulous. He demonstrated some other cutters for me and showed me the = proper way to hold them, etc. He made it look so easy! (23 years of = doing that tends to make it look that way!) I bought a pencil grip = cutter and I am having a little more success - however, ... Practice makes perfect, right? My husband came home from work today and = saw all the pieces that I have been painstakingly cutting out over the = last 3 days for a small panel and he just loved it. He even told me to = stick with this - he'll fund my hobby. (I don't think he realizes what = he just promised! I won't tell if you won't!!) He really likes all the = pattern photos I have shown him and I think he is a little anxious for = me to get better at this so he can reap the fruits of my labor! He wants = some pieces for his offices. Anyway, when I fit the pieces of my panel = together the 2 center elongated diamond shapes just don't fit right. = Bummer! So tomorrow it's either back to the grinder or I may just cut 2 = new pieces.=20 With all the helpful tips and wonderful encouragement from all of you I = am sure I get the hang of this soon. Thank you all so very much. This is = the best group I have ever subscribed to. !!!!!!!!!! I will keep you all posted and let you know how it's going. Pamela ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01BEFA5F.A3B46BE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I cannot tell = you how=20 touched I am that so many of you responded to my message with such = optimism and=20 love of stained glass. I received so many helpful and detailed tips from = so many=20 of you. Too numerous to list here. I will be trying out all of these = tips out=20 tomorrow.
 
I did go to a = shop today=20 where I will be taking a class and the owner is fabulous. He = demonstrated some=20 other cutters for me and showed me the proper way to hold them, etc. He = made it=20 look so easy! (23 years of doing that tends to make it look that way!) I = bought=20 a pencil grip cutter and I am having a little more success - however,=20 ...
 
Practice makes = perfect,=20 right? My husband came home from work today and saw all the pieces that = I have=20 been painstakingly cutting out over the last 3 days for a small panel = and he=20 just loved it. He even told me to stick with this - he'll fund my hobby. = (I=20 don't think he realizes what he just promised! I won't tell if you = won't!!) He=20 really likes all the pattern photos I have shown him and I think he is a = little=20 anxious for me to get better at this so he can reap the fruits of my = labor! He=20 wants some pieces for his offices. Anyway, when I fit the pieces of my = panel=20 together the 2 center elongated diamond shapes just don't fit right. = Bummer! So=20 tomorrow it's either back to the grinder or I may just cut 2 new pieces. =
 
With all the = helpful tips=20 and wonderful encouragement from all of you I am sure I get the hang of = this=20 soon. Thank you all so very much. This is the best group I have ever = subscribed=20 to. !!!!!!!!!!
 
I will keep = you all posted=20 and let you know how it's going.
 
Pamela
------=_NextPart_000_003C_01BEFA5F.A3B46BE0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 00:25:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:19:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: wolf.net!dimitrovich From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" To: Subject: Oddy Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 01:52:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.21523.0> Precedence: bulk I Am inspired! What gorgeous work!!! Oh, to one day be even a fraction as good as that! That is what I find so amazing about all of this - to create just beautiful "paintings" with glass pieces. To me, it takes much more talent to be able to do that in glass. As a painter, I know. Thanks for the url, Dorothy. It was just what I needed! -----Original Message----- From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 8:43 PM Subject: Re: New to Glass >Pamela, >There are some wonderful glass artists who are self taught. (Isn't Bob >Oddy self-taught?...Pamela, go find his Web page immediately for >inspiration http://www.servtech.com/~rnoddy), but I suspect the >technical part will be easier with some classes. Still and all, >practice always improves one, so be patient. > >Dorothy > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 00:40:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:54:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: wolf.net!dimitrovich From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Thank You! Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 01:07:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep8.2178.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01BEFA5F.A3B46BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I cannot tell you how touched I am that so many of you responded to my = message with such optimism and love of stained glass. I received so many = helpful and detailed tips from so many of you. Too numerous to list = here. I will be trying out all of these tips out tomorrow.=20 I did go to a shop today where I will be taking a class and the owner is = fabulous. He demonstrated some other cutters for me and showed me the = proper way to hold them, etc. He made it look so easy! (23 years of = doing that tends to make it look that way!) I bought a pencil grip = cutter and I am having a little more success - however, ... Practice makes perfect, right? My husband came home from work today and = saw all the pieces that I have been painstakingly cutting out over the = last 3 days for a small panel and he just loved it. He even told me to = stick with this - he'll fund my hobby. (I don't think he realizes what = he just promised! I won't tell if you won't!!) He really likes all the = pattern photos I have shown him and I think he is a little anxious for = me to get better at this so he can reap the fruits of my labor! He wants = some pieces for his offices. Anyway, when I fit the pieces of my panel = together the 2 center elongated diamond shapes just don't fit right. = Bummer! So tomorrow it's either back to the grinder or I may just cut 2 = new pieces.=20 With all the helpful tips and wonderful encouragement from all of you I = am sure I get the hang of this soon. Thank you all so very much. This is = the best group I have ever subscribed to. !!!!!!!!!! I will keep you all posted and let you know how it's going. Pamela ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01BEFA5F.A3B46BE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I cannot tell = you how=20 touched I am that so many of you responded to my message with such = optimism and=20 love of stained glass. I received so many helpful and detailed tips from = so many=20 of you. Too numerous to list here. I will be trying out all of these = tips out=20 tomorrow.
 
I did go to a = shop today=20 where I will be taking a class and the owner is fabulous. He = demonstrated some=20 other cutters for me and showed me the proper way to hold them, etc. He = made it=20 look so easy! (23 years of doing that tends to make it look that way!) I = bought=20 a pencil grip cutter and I am having a little more success - however,=20 ...
 
Practice makes = perfect,=20 right? My husband came home from work today and saw all the pieces that = I have=20 been painstakingly cutting out over the last 3 days for a small panel = and he=20 just loved it. He even told me to stick with this - he'll fund my hobby. = (I=20 don't think he realizes what he just promised! I won't tell if you = won't!!) He=20 really likes all the pattern photos I have shown him and I think he is a = little=20 anxious for me to get better at this so he can reap the fruits of my = labor! He=20 wants some pieces for his offices. Anyway, when I fit the pieces of my = panel=20 together the 2 center elongated diamond shapes just don't fit right. = Bummer! So=20 tomorrow it's either back to the grinder or I may just cut 2 new pieces. =
 
With all the = helpful tips=20 and wonderful encouragement from all of you I am sure I get the hang of = this=20 soon. Thank you all so very much. This is the best group I have ever = subscribed=20 to. !!!!!!!!!!
 
I will keep = you all posted=20 and let you know how it's going.
 
Pamela
------=_NextPart_000_003C_01BEFA5F.A3B46BE0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 05:22:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 05:03:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Leadlines From: Leadlines@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Teaching/creative block Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:58:55 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep9.115855.0> Precedence: bulk On the subject of teachers... best advice is to be open to all, you never know where you will find the most help until you find it. I have met some of the most interesting people teaching stained glass and in addition to sharing what I know about glass I have learned a lot from my students. Some of the most unlikely people in this world can teach you a lot. I have re-taught many students who were unhappy with classes/instructors in their past that have become talented and happy glass artists. Open up to the world out there, who knows one day you may be teaching someone what you know. I have been criticized by many for educating the competition, I always call it sharing my love for glass. A little late here on the subject of creative block.......... Bungi is the greatest help for this subject. All those S/G web sites that people recommend are very good places to start. I bookmark every site and when I have time I browse through them. I have many favorites. This is a great way to become inspired, spend a few minutes or hours searching through these. I also keep a note book handy to write or sketch ideas in, I always date the entry. It is years sometimes before I have time to develop one of those ideas but when one is burned out by commission work or production work, working on a project from the sketch book can really be exhilarating. Luanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 05:38:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 05:06:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Leadlines From: Leadlines@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Teaching/creative block Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:58:55 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep9.115855.0> Precedence: bulk On the subject of teachers... best advice is to be open to all, you never know where you will find the most help until you find it. I have met some of the most interesting people teaching stained glass and in addition to sharing what I know about glass I have learned a lot from my students. Some of the most unlikely people in this world can teach you a lot. I have re-taught many students who were unhappy with classes/instructors in their past that have become talented and happy glass artists. Open up to the world out there, who knows one day you may be teaching someone what you know. I have been criticized by many for educating the competition, I always call it sharing my love for glass. A little late here on the subject of creative block.......... Bungi is the greatest help for this subject. All those S/G web sites that people recommend are very good places to start. I bookmark every site and when I have time I browse through them. I have many favorites. This is a great way to become inspired, spend a few minutes or hours searching through these. I also keep a note book handy to write or sketch ideas in, I always date the entry. It is years sometimes before I have time to develop one of those ideas but when one is burned out by commission work or production work, working on a project from the sketch book can really be exhilarating. Luanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 06:19:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 05:57:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Teaching/creative block Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:49:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep9.44954.0> Precedence: bulk In regards to where to be find the best education. I can only say from the experience of hiring people to work in the studio who are trained. Those who are self trained or learned from a night school class or supplier class were the least well adjust or able to take criticism. Their creative ability was limited and their motivation skills non-existent. Those who had a academic background and were formally trained in design were a blessing to have work for us. Paul has been working with the Stained Glass Association of America to have a four year program in place at a major university. This degreed program will allow an individual to graduate with a degree in fine art with a concentration in stained glass. During this four years degreed program the student will spend the last year of studies working in a studio environment. Learning the real workings of a studio. There is a major shortage of qualified glass artists in this country to work in the studio environment. If this shortage exists there will be no one to create the monumental work that will be here for future generations. And personally I am tired of seeing mediocre work in this country. my best, pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists Associate Member AIA -----Original Message----- From: Leadlines@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, September 09, 1999 8:37 AM Subject: Teaching/creative block >On the subject of teachers... >best advice is to be open to all, you never know where you will find the most >help until you find it. I have met some of the most interesting people >teaching stained glass and in addition to sharing what I know about glass I >have learned a lot from my students. Some of the most unlikely people in >this world can teach you a lot. I have re-taught many students who were >unhappy with classes/instructors in their past that have become talented and >happy glass artists. Open up to the world out there, who knows one day you >may be teaching someone what you know. I have been criticized by many for >educating the competition, I always call it sharing my love for glass. > A little late here on the subject of creative block.......... Bungi is >the greatest help for this subject. All those S/G web sites that people >recommend are very good places to start. I bookmark every site and when I >have time I browse through them. I have many favorites. This is a great way >to become inspired, spend a few minutes or hours searching through these. >I also keep a note book handy to write or sketch ideas in, I always date the >entry. It is years sometimes before I have time to develop one of those >ideas but when one is burned out by commission work or production work, >working on a project from the sketch book can really be exhilarating. >Luanne >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 07:21:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:50:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: "Modiano, Victor" To: 'bungi' , "'mschatee@juno.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: A ? about Flux Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:44:38 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep9.44438.0> Precedence: bulk Karen You have let the genie out of the bottle and there is no putting it back now. I made an apple with a worm (WC catalog # 8300-97/98 pg. 94) for my niece to give her preschool teacher in 1989. It hasn't stopped yet. Every mothers day Uncle Vic delivers his apples for his niece and nephews teachers. This past year my four year old helped me make them for his teachers too. With the genie also came that wonderful feeling you get when you see other people admiring your work. IMHO that after all is what art is really about. Vic M. vmodiano@ctronsoft.com PS I used my original bottle of flux for about 4 years. -----Original Message----- From: mschatee@juno.com [mailto:mschatee@juno.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 10:38 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: A ? about Flux Oh by the way, any of you with young children here's an idea for your kids teachers as gifts. Yesterday was our first day of school ( I am a teacher) and I made and gave 9 red apple suncatchers to all the teachers in my department and welcome gifts for a few of the new teachers in the school. Well you would have thought I gave them a big raise or something, they were so excited especially knowing that I made them myself. I also wrote their names on them with a gold marking pen. Now we all have apples in our windows in the hallway (can you tell I am proud of myself). They were so easy, I just drew an apple from my head. Used scrap glass for the stems and leaves and bingo....teacher gifts. Remember that for Christmas and end of year gifts. I know as a teacher I would have loved to have received one of them from my kids. Thanks for the answers to the flux questions. Back to lurking. Caren ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 07:48:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:07:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: shipping Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:01:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep9.6123.0> Precedence: bulk >They (stained glass windows) will be insulated and each = would weigh approx.35 - 50# Has anyone ever crated and shipped this many= = windows, if so, How should I crate them? Do you know how to figure crati= ng charges?< I ship stained glass window inserts for kitchen cabinets through UPS, but I pack/crate them myself. When you say they will be insulated, does that mean the stained glass window will be encased between 2 sheets of safety glass & sealed to form one solid window? I'm assuming this is the case. They will be much stronger for shipping than just packing a single layer stained glass panel, which is what I have to do. In any case you are going to need to at least double box each window. You will need to order new corrigated boxes of a dimension at least 5 inches larger in each direction than your panel. Have one per window. You can order these from packaging companies such as Uline or a local packaging company. Here's how I pack mine: - wrap panel in corregated cardboard sheets, in effect, making an inside box. you don't have to wrap the ends. thoroughly tape this tightly. - construct your new corrigated larger box, using fiber-reinforced mailing tape to tape up all edges. - fill the bottom of the box with packing peanuts - put the inside box (containing the panel) in the middle of the outside box and fill with packing peanuts. overstuff this box with peanuts. - seal up the outside box with more fiber-reinforced mailing tape. - label the box Since you're sending them all at once (I assume) it might pay for you to send them through a shipping/trucking company rather than through UPS. You'll have to investigate this yourself. With UPS you can get their hundredweight reduced rate for shipping this much weight at the same time to the same location. Christie Wood/Art Glass Ensembles 405 E. Walnut St. Rear North Wales, PA 19454 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 07:52:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:27:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!ACASADO From: ACASADO@webtv.net (ALI CASADO) To: Leadlines@aol.com, Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Glass fusing Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:27:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep9.62736.0> Precedence: bulk Luanne I saw your response to Creative Block, and was very impressed as to your extremely positive attitude. In addition to stained glass do you do any glass fusing and slumping? I just started doing it 5 months ago and I love it, but I have so much to learn and I want to know yesterday. Being the positive person you are, do you have any helpful hints? In Miami, there are no sources for fusing info. The glass suppliers sell the fusing supplies, but know nothing or very little about it and obviously they are not interested in learning. I have to depend on reading books (Gil Reynolds and Boyce Lundstrom) and the wonderful bungians have been very helpful in answering my many questions. Thanking you in advance, Ali ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 08:30:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:48:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: mschatee@juno.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: A ? about Flux Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 09:43:02 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep9.5432.0> References: <<1999Sep9.23738.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk mschatee@juno.com wrote: > > I have a few questions. Does Flux have a shelf life? How long is too > long to have a bottle on the shelf. How often should you change the > brush? I'm wondering because I bought my supplies 2 years ago and still > haven't finished my first bottle of flux ( I'm just a hobbyist), should I > buy a fresh bottle? > I did a lot of glass this summer since last summer I didn't do any. I > decided that the basement was the coolest place in the house and it > inspired me to work on glass. I plan on doing it regularly now and was > even thinking today that I need to start working on Christmas presents > already. > > Oh by the way, any of you with young children here's an idea for your > kids teachers as gifts. Yesterday was our first day of school ( I am a > teacher) and I made and gave 9 red apple suncatchers to all the teachers > in my department and welcome gifts for a few of the new teachers in the > school. Well you would have thought I gave them a big raise or > something, they were so excited especially knowing that I made them > myself. I also wrote their names on them with a gold marking pen. Now we > all have apples in our windows in the hallway (can you tell I am proud of > myself). They were so easy, I just drew an apple from my head. Used > scrap glass for the stems and leaves and bingo....teacher gifts. > Remember that for Christmas and end of year gifts. I know as a teacher I > would have loved to have received one of them from my kids. > > Thanks for the answers to the flux questions. Back to lurking. > > Caren > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Get the Internet just the way you want it. > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass as long as the flux works there should'nt be any problems. i think my flux is at least 2-3 years oold, and i don't notice anything bad. just don't dip the brush into the original container, and you'll be fine. the brush should be replaced when there isn't a brush left. i use a cheap paint brush for my fluxing needs. over time it will bend back and the bristles disapear, that's when i get a new one. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 09:05:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:22:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!atayloreddesign From: Delores Taylor To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: E Tour Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:59:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199909091459.KAA08338@hpdmraaa.compuserve.com> Precedence: bulk Who is going to the Seattle E-Tour? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 09:25:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:37:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!atayloreddesign From: Delores Taylor To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Shipping and packaging Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:36:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199909091536.LAA24450@hpdmraaa.compuserve.com> Precedence: bulk ARTIZ01@aol.com wrote: Has anyone ever crated and shipped this many >windows, if so, How should I crate them? Call your local carrier such as Yellow Freight, Consolidated Freightways, whoever is listed in your phone book and is a reputible company. Ask for inside sales or rates. Rates is really the info you want but sales might be more accomodating to provide you with info on packaging as they will want to set you up as a customer, establish pricing structure (it's all negotiable and about volume and repeat business) and help your with rate quotes. Have them fax you a copy of the NMFC guidelines for shipping your stained glass windows which will carry a specific NMFC item number which will refer to the minimum type of packaging required. The NMFC also outlines specific guidlines for boxes or in this case crates. These will be the minimum requirements so you can beef it up more if you feel it is necessary. If you have damage and you don't package your goods according to the NMFC your claim will be declined. So while it may be a bit bother... it will give you very specific information on the minimum shipping requirements of any product and save you hassles should any damage occur. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 09:46:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:09:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ceps.nasm.edu!jellison From: PJ Jellison To: Stained Glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: NG: Elephant trunks again Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 12:12:06 -0400 Message-ID: <37D7DC48.1E570919@ceps.nasm.edu> Organization: Smithsonian Institution Precedence: bulk For what it's worth --- I got intrigued by the discussion of elephant trunk positions in stained glass and other art and decided to look into it a bit. So far I've found one folklorist who says that the "trunk up for good luck" fashion started in the USA in the 1920's and 1930's when elephants became kind of a craze, and that "trunk down" did not mean bad luck -- just like a four-leaf clover is good luck but a regular three-leafer is not bad luck. He also told me that the whole elephant thing started during the late Victorian era with a fascination for things related to the British Colonial experience in India, including Ganesh (elephant-headed Hindu god of luck and prosperity -- whose iconography usually shows him with trunk down!). >From personal experience, I've collected elephant knicknacks for many years and have many with trunk raised, and an equal number with trunk lowered. I've also had the privilege of working in close proximity to African elephants for many years, and I can tell you I'd rather see them with trunk (and ears) down than up -- unless they're browsing for food, an African elephant with trunk up is often an upset elephant! So maybe this will help someone if a client gives you grief about a trunk in the "wrong" position... Cheers! PJ Jellison ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 09:54:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:16:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!ACASADO From: ACASADO@webtv.net (ALI CASADO) To: keane@heesun.com, Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Thank you Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:09:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep9.8937.0> Precedence: bulk Dear Robert and Jeanne, Thank you so much for your very helpful info. It really touches me as to the caring of trying to help others that have less knowledge and experience as you. I truly appreciate it. Thanks again Ali P. S. Infinite Visions is not all that far from me. I am in Miami. How did you hear about them living in Maryland ? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 10:09:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:27:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!ACASADO From: ACASADO@webtv.net (ALI CASADO) To: Leadlines@aol.com, Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary=WebTV-Mail-32433-2575 Subject: Fwd: Glass fusing Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:23:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep9.82338.0> Precedence: bulk --WebTV-Mail-32433-2575 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit --WebTV-Mail-32433-2575 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from mailsorter-102-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.98) by postoffice-151.iap.bryant.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:05:12 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from daver.bungi.com (daver.bungi.com [207.126.97.2]) by mailsorter-102-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.adl.990907) with ESMTP id IAA09416; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:05:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:27:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!ACASADO From: ACASADO@webtv.net (ALI CASADO) To: Leadlines@aol.com, Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Glass fusing Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:27:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep9.62736.0> Precedence: bulk Luanne I saw your response to Creative Block, and was very impressed as to your extremely positive attitude. In addition to stained glass do you do any glass fusing and slumping? I just started doing it 5 months ago and I love it, but I have so much to learn and I want to know yesterday. Being the positive person you are, do you have any helpful hints? In Miami, there are no sources for fusing info. The glass suppliers sell the fusing supplies, but know nothing or very little about it and obviously they are not interested in learning. I have to depend on reading books (Gil Reynolds and Boyce Lundstrom) and the wonderful bungians have been very helpful in answering my many questions. Thanking you in advance, Ali ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass --WebTV-Mail-32433-2575-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 10:27:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:59:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!christkaiser From: Chris Kaiser To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0-2044897763-936896293=:12916" Subject: Fwd: Fw: 3D Tip from Eni Oken: Copyright law Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:58:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep9.25813.0> Precedence: bulk --0-2044897763-936896293=:12916 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hi All, My hubby is a 3D Graphic artist, and recieved this email a few days ago. He forwarded it to me, because it contains information that is universal to any copyright, and after reading it, I just thought I would pass it along to my fellow Bungians in case anyone might not know about this area. =) Note: forwarded message attached. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com --0-2044897763-936896293=:12916 Content-Type: message/rfc822 X-Apparently-To: christkaiser@yahoo.com via mdd1102.mail.yahoo.com Received: from unknown (HELO prince.nstate.net) (63.192.99.152) by mta112.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 1999 21:30:16 -0700 Received: from c382815a ([24.9.163.79]) by prince.nstate.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id 216 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 21:37:10 -0700 Message-ID: <001b01bef5c5$27a77180$4fa30918@pinol1.sfba.home.com> From: "Stardreamer" To: Subject: Fw: 3D Tip from Eni Oken: Copyright law Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 21:30:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Content-Length: 2180 ----- Original Message ----- From: Eni Oken To: Christine T Rowe Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 2:19 PM Subject: 3D Tip from Eni Oken: Copyright law > Hi Everybody! > > The last message sent out to you raised an interesting question from some readers: the issue of copyright. One member of the list who was about to release his new website was concerned about copyrighting his images. > > While doing a little research, I came across an interesting document that all of you should read: > > http://www.eff.org/pub/CAF/law/ip-primer > > It describes copyright laws in detail, specifically regarding multimedia, but applies to any type of work > . > In short, it determines that copyright protection is automatic as soon as an original work of authorship (songs, images, words) is fixed in a tangible medium of expression. The author then explains the subtleties and meaning of the words "original" and "fixed". > > Assigning the traditional mark 'copyright' onto an image is optional, since all authored work is protected even if it doesn't show it, but its good practice since that usually serves as a gentle reminder that the work is protected. > > A second important point: registration at the Copyright office is optional, but you have to register before filing for an infringement suit, and if you have registered way in advance, more than 6 months before the law suit, you are also entitled to certain amounts of money such as attorney's fees and damages. > > What kinds of works are protected? Any thing that was created by you, an author or artist. Exceptions are: if you are an employee for a company, then the copyright is owned by the company. Also, if you are a contractor performing a "work for hire", then the copyright is of the client, unless stated otherwise. > > An interesting point: certain exceptions apply, such as works that have fell into public domain because they were made more than 100 years ago, such as Shakespeare's plays and such. > > For more details, consult the following page: > http://www.fplc.edu/tfield/ipbasics.htm > > Take care, > --- > Eni Oken > ~3D Digital Artist~ > http://www.oken3d.com > --0-2044897763-936896293=:12916-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 10:53:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:23:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Mike Savad Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Unfair question? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:19:06 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep9.9196.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Mike Savad > that would be me again... :) http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/ ---Mike Savad< You are such a jokester, Savad! Cracks me up... but, really.... some newer folks on bungi may actually take you seriously!!! LOL. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.igga.org/greer/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 11:09:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:22:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: comox.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@comox.island.net (synergyglass) To: Delores Taylor Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: E Tour Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:39:13 -0700 Message-ID: <199909091639.JAA32078@mimas.island.net> Precedence: bulk >Who is going to the Seattle E-Tour? Myself, Cheryl Parrott and Pamela Burns-Tappan that I know of at this point. C. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 11:22:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:26:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!christkaiser From: Chris Kaiser To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: So you want to be a hero? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:35:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep9.23535.0> Precedence: bulk Dear Bungians, I'm writing this letter to talk about some very exciting news! As some of you may recall, I sent a letter to the group about 2 weeks ago regarding sorting the information from the Bungi archives into more manageable "topic" pages. The responses I received were very, very positive. Jim Gonzalez (my new partner in crime) immediately offered his valuable expertise, and we have been working behind the scenes to coordinate this effort. We were generously offered as much webspace as needed to house the information by Dave Rand. So, this project is "A Go"!! Now what we are asking for is other people to volunteer to go through as little, or as many archives as they choose to, to give us a hand with the massive amount of text that exists. Our process will be fairly simple. I will quote from Jim who master-minded this process; ~Go through the files in any text editing program (I use Wordpad) and remove all posts which contain no usable information and keep those that have something of value. For those posts which remain, strip out all extraneous information (ie. quotes from previous messages, personal greetings, etc.). Finally, add a concise subject to each post. For example: "Soldering" We will give each 'editor' an exact list of subject text to use. (Note: I have edited some of the 1995 posts, and found each month to take about 2 hours. The later years files are much larger, so will take proportionately more time.) ~When all the monthly files have been completed and returned run a program against them to extract each post and write it to a file by subject (all the posts on soldering will end up together in one file and so on). ~These subject files will then have to be reviewed and cleaned up. ~Then they will be posted and available to everyone! As you can see, this will be a huge amount work. Jim and I are totally committed to it, and will see it through to the end, but the more people that help, the less time it takes for this wonderful information to be useable for all. Everyone that lends a hand will be given proper credit on the finished page, and will go down in history as a stained glass hero! *grin* Please e-mail Myself or Jim directly if you want to lend a helping hand. Warm Regards, ChrisTKaiser, christkaiser@yahoo.com gonzalj@freenet.tlh.fl.us __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 11:24:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:36:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: Dani Greer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Unfair question? Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 13:32:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep9.9327.0> References: <<199909091319_MC2-843B-78D1@compuserve.com>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Dani Greer wrote: > > Message text written by Mike Savad > > > that would be me again... :) http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/ > > ---Mike Savad< > > You are such a jokester, Savad! Cracks me > up... but, really.... some newer folks on bungi > may actually take you seriously!!! LOL. > > Best regards, > > Dani Greer > Greer Gallery & Studios > http://www.igga.org/greer/ oh.... very well then... even better.... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 11:45:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:14:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: airmail.net!orbiter1 From: orbiter1 To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: New to glass Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 11:51:19 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990909115119.007bfe50@mail.airmail.net> Precedence: bulk Like Pamela, when I first started in glass 4 years ago, cutting was my weakness. I did not think that I would ever get the hang of cutting. I ran thru a lot of glass. At one time, one of the professionals on bungi said that you should not hardly have to use a grinder. When I read it at the time, I about died laughing. My grinder was the only thing getting the pieces to fit in the pattern. Didn't think things would change. I have been amazed this year - my glass cutting skills have improved dramatically. It has been like others have said - I have gotten to where I use my grinder much less. Still probably more than I should, but my cutting has been much, much more accurate this year. Because of that fact, I have been able to move on to more complicated projects this year. I have lurked on bungi for a long time, but have learned an immense amount. My bungi notes binders are overflowing with emails that I have printed out over time. I just wanted to say thank you for all of the valuable help, tips, and information that has been provided by bungi. Bungi has been a better classroom than any of the classes that I have taken. Thanks, Shelley E. Preble ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 11:53:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:18:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:ARTIZ01@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Shipping and packaging Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:19:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep9.9198.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:ARTIZ01@aol.com >Has anyone ever crated and shipped this many = windows, if so, How should I crate them? Do you know how to figure crati= ng charges?< If you have a glazing company (plain ol' glass) near you, = ask them if you can see a shipment received... crates attached to pallets.... and then ask them if they would be willing to sell/give you both. Large glass companies have a real time trying to unload crates and pallets sometimes. And, you'll be able to see exactly how the glass needs to be packaged for shipping. Then start calling trucking companies and getting cwt costs. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 12:05:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:01:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "bungi group" , "Bob Duchesneau" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Teaching/creative block Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:54:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep9.95444.0> Precedence: bulk -pj wrote>>> >>>>>Those who are self trained or learned from a night school class or >supplier >class were the least well adjust or able to take criticism. Their creative >ability was limited and their motivation skills non-existent. > >Those who had a academic background and were formally trained in design were >a blessing to have work for us.<<<< > >I near choked when I read this. It sounds like you are working with small >numbers. If so it explains how one could come to the opinion that informally >trained glass workers were greatly inferior to formally trained workers. >Where the statement, "Their creative >ability was limited and their motivation skills non-existent." comes from I >am at a loss to understand. Sorry to have you choking Bob, but its reality.We are not a large working studio you are correct. But I can give you the names of many large professinal studios I have spoken with who feel the same way. A person who has a college education and an artitstic background just works better in a studio setting. And I can name a half a dozen working studios that feel the same way. >The quoted material smacks of the same sort of thinking that allows many of >us to put down whole classes of people sight unseen. Not true. Has nothing to do with whole classes of people. Don't try to put a slant on what I said. I also know of some suppliers who have no business teaching glass. They are only it the business of selling supplies. Now that is frightening. And haven't a clue. > >I, for one, know people in stained glass that have no formal training and >produce award winning work. Check out: >http://glass.intrastar.net/bobby/indexpage1.htm for one! >Several of these artists sell their work and others do not. People that get >criticism from me ASK FOR IT. I do NOT TEACH but do offer free advice for >those seeking it. Now that I think of it I am not sure that the few formally >trained people I have met are anything special to this area of art. In fact, >I can think of few formally trained artists of note.>> Sorry to hear that Bob. And I on the other hand have met numerous artists who are professionally trained and tremendiously successful with their work. And are more than special to the art of stained glass. Did you happen to check out John clark's website???? He's formally trained. http://members.aol.com/clarkglass/index.html. And an excellant craftman as well as an artist. People who copy designs are not artists.......and that a whole other debate. Selling your work does not make you a good artist or any kind of artist. We are a country with Home Shopping Club and QVC which does billions of dollars selling crap. And there will always be people to buy crap. I have seem plenty of stained glass that is horrid sold. Mediocre work that wouldn't hold up ten years let alone a hundred. Personally it does a diservice to the whole craft. And nothing artistic about any of it. > >There is nothing wrong with formal training but it has its limitations. It >is certain that a piece of parchment does not an artist make. Perhaps it >should only be considered as a licence to learn. You are right a piece of parchment does not make an artist. But it hopefully will have given you the tools to survive in this world. And the responsibility of creating work that will last for decades. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 13:25:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:55:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Chris Kaiser Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Fwd: Fw: 3D Tip from Eni Oken: Copyright law Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:17:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep9.101744.0> Precedence: bulk A good source of copyright information is always the US government copyright office which has a website.... you can download = all the forms you will ever need for copyrighting your work! Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 13:58:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:24:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Pamela Dimitrovich" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Oddy Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:19:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep9.91911.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Pamela Dimitrovich" >I Am inspired! What gorgeous work!!! Oh, to one day be even a fraction a= s good as that! That is what I find so amazing about all of this - to creat= e just beautiful "paintings" with glass pieces. To me, it takes much more talent to be able to do that in glass. As a painter, I know. Thanks for t= he url, Dorothy. It was just what I needed! < Another place to see some marvelous work is on the IGGA home page.... click on "Light Show"... http://www.igga.org/ Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 14:21:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:46:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: bye albert Date: Thu Sep 9 13:45:18 1999 Message-ID: <1999Sep10.112318.0> Organization: taylor'd Expressions Precedence: bulk albert you will be grately missed, but hope your new ventures are rewarding. keep in touch with us! thanx debbie debbie taylor kleeman@one.net http://www.taylordexpressions.com your complete stained glass supply source 1-888-488-9616 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 14:32:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:55:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Bob Duchesneau Subject: Re: hairline crack Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:49:14 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Sep9.224914.0> References: <<1999Sep8.92944.0@?>> Precedence: bulk Bob, Do you think the dichoric in between the other sheets may have had an effect on the crack? Ali, Is the crack along or does it start beside the piece of dichoric? If it does, there may be an incompatibility between the glasses. Steve In message <1999Sep8.92944.0@?>, Bob Duchesneau writes >>>). Thinking that was not >hot enough to fully round the edges, I fused it to 1400 and held it for >5 minutes. I just took it out of the kiln and there is a hairline crack >across the piece. You cannot feel it, but you definately can see it. >Do you think the temp. was too high? Also, how can I rectify the >situation & cover it up?<< > >It sounds like you went up to fast on the second firing and that cracked the >glass. When re firing it is necessary to take into account the new increased >thickness of the glass and slow the heating schedule. > >High temperatures do not crack glass. Due to the glass becoming plastic it >is impossible to crack glass over about 950'F. > >I have poor results in trying to heat repair objects of this type. Better to >see what you can do to use the fragments or use as a display piece. > >You can still slump the piece but the crack will still show and is not >likely to heal perfectly at even high fusing temperatures. > >Bob in SOCAL > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 14:57:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:18:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!christkaiser From: Chris Kaiser To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: my 2 cents Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:50:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep9.65037.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all, Chris the semi lurker here =) I just wanted to state my personal opinion. I am not a professional, nor will ever be a professional. Im sure that some people would take one look at some things I have made and call it crap. But...making stained glass, and sandblasting on glass, gives me much enjoyment. The people I either give my work to, or sell for a small price (mostly to friends to cover my costs) enjoy it as well, and appreciate the fact that I made it with my own two hands. And being constructive helps me to grow as a person. I think its important to realize that this list is not only for professionals, but for hobbyists and beginners as well, and I for one have walked away after reading a few posts with a negative feeling for not being a "true artist". To be fair, that happens very infrequently on Bungi, more so in other places like newsgroups. I was very reluctant to even post this, my personal philosophy is to live and let live, and I generally let negativity roll off my back, but it was something I felt would be beneficial to toss out there. *braces herself for a spanking* =) chris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 15:32:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:56:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: wolf.net!dimitrovich From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" To: Subject: Storing Came Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:30:34 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep9.133034.0> Precedence: bulk I'm sure everyone else without a real studio does this too, but if not, here it is... When I was at my supplier this morning, I bought several pieces of came and noticed that the box he keeps it in was nearly empty. I asked him for the empty box and he gladly gave it to me. He just placed the 4 remaining pieces into another box. I would have bought them if I had to. I wanted that box!. Now I have a safe place to store my came. To keep my different sizes separate, I will ask him if he would give me a few more. I just didn't think of it at the time. Pam ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 16:03:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:28:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: wolf.net!dimitrovich From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" To: Subject: NG - IMHO? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:02:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep9.14210.0> Precedence: bulk What does IMHO stand for? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 16:33:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:46:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: wolf.net!dimitrovich From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" To: Subject: Cement System Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:20:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep9.142029.0> Precedence: bulk Last Friday I bought a small container of Inland Cement System for lead. When I opened it the oil was all sitting on the top and the cement was nearly rock hard. It wasn't dried out, there just wasn't much of the oil mixed in it. I tried like heck to attempt to stir it but no luck. Rather than go through the hassle of exchanging it, I got it all out (not too easy, mind you) and put it into a large bowl I use for mixing up all kinds of goopy things for crafts. I mashed it and mixed it with an old fork as best as I could until it was blended and fairly smooth. Then I used an old rubber spatula and put it back into the original container. (That spatula is now commandeered for cement) Question - was this cement going bad? Or does it get like that after a period of time, but is still usable? If so, how long does it take to nearly solidify like that? Thanks, Pam ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 16:44:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:59:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: Pamela Dimitrovich Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Storing Came Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 18:52:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep9.145221.0> References: <<1999Sep9.133034.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Pamela Dimitrovich wrote: > > I'm sure everyone else without a real studio does this too, but if not, here > it is... > > When I was at my supplier this morning, I bought several pieces of came and > noticed that the box he keeps it in was nearly empty. I asked him for the > empty box and he gladly gave it to me. He just placed the 4 remaining pieces > into another box. I would have bought them if I had to. I wanted that box!. > Now I have a safe place to store my came. To keep my different sizes > separate, I will ask him if he would give me a few more. I just didn't think > of it at the time. > > Pam > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass another method to try is what plumbing vans use. get a long piece of pvc pipe about 3-4" in diameter. get a cap on one end, glue it if you want. the other end needs a screw on cap and it's adapter. put the came, rods, tubing etc, in that, and it will stay dry and clean. and if your in a flood prone area, even better. different lenghts for different sizes. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 17:32:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 16:35:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pacbell.net!rrkerr From: rrk To: Pamela Dimitrovich Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: NG - IMHO? Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 16:39:29 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep9.93929.0> References: <<1999Sep9.14210.0>> Precedence: bulk Pamela Dimitrovich wrote: >=20 > What does IMHO stand for? IMHO =3D In My Humble Opinion IMO =3D In My Opinion Of course, for many (perhaps most) people when they use this, its a reliable and accurate marker that they're not being humble at all, merely flying false colors to lure you to come into shooting range ... then if you contradict them or disagree with their "humble opinion" in any way, they hoist up the Jolly Roger and give you a broadside, but thats another story . --=20 HAVE FUN .......... ez ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 18:15:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:22:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Pamela Dimitrovich" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Cement System Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:19:37 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep9.161937.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Pamela Dimitrovich" >Question - was this cement going bad? Or does it get like that after a period of time, but is still usable? If so, how long does it take to near= ly solidify like that?< It always does this after a period of time.... takes some elbow muscle to get it integrated again, but it will be okay. We make our own from scratch and use a good thick stir stick of wood to re-mix, then usually add more = ingredients to make a new, larger batch. Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 18:42:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:28:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: "Pamela Dimitrovich" Subject: Re: NG - IMHO? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:11:29 +0000 Message-ID: <199909100010.UAA12180@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > What does IMHO stand for? In my humble opinion, IMHO stands for "in my humble opinion." Nevermind, I've still not figured out LOL, but love ROTFLMHO. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 18:54:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:28:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: Pamela Dimitrovich Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG - IMHO? Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 19:28:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep9.152820.0> References: <<1999Sep9.14210.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Pamela Dimitrovich wrote: > > What does IMHO stand for? > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass In My Humble Opinion for all the other's go to http://www.mtnds.com/af/default2.asp ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 19:19:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:01:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pacbell.net!rrkerr From: rrk To: Chris Kaiser Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: my 2 cents Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 17:50:24 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep9.105024.0> References: <<1999Sep9.65037.0@mta1.snfc21.pbi.net>> Precedence: bulk Chris Kaiser wrote: >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > Chris the semi lurker here =3D) I just wanted to state my personal > opinion. I am not a professional, nor will ever be a professional. = Im > sure that some people would take one look at some things I have mad= e > and call it crap. But...making stained glass, and sandblasting on > glass, gives me much enjoyment. The people I either give my work to= , or > sell for a small price (mostly to friends to cover my costs) enjoy = it > as well, and appreciate the fact that I made it with my own two han= ds. > And being constructive helps me to grow as a person. I think its > important to realize that this list is not only for professionals, = but > for hobbyists and beginners as well, and I for one have walked away > after reading a few posts with a negative feeling for not being a "= true > artist". To be fair, that happens very infrequently on Bungi, more = so > in other places like newsgroups. I was very reluctant to even post > this, my personal philosophy is to live and let live, and I general= ly > let negativity roll off my back, but it was something I felt would = be > beneficial to toss out there. > *braces herself for a spanking* =3D) Chris, You are talking about your own feelings, an emotional reaction to certain attitudes and points of view posted here on this list about t= he value and meaning of education, degrees, and training in art. These feelings are your own, are valid in and of themselves, and as such require no justification. However, these feelings should be noted by those on this list. I would like to note that your reaction is a common one. In today's anti-intellectual and anti-achievement environment there is constant propaganda from the mass media that "we're all the same" and "anybody can do anything" and "everybody's opinion is valid" (amongst numerous other obviously false propositions). The political foundations of Th= e Age of the Common Man that we are currently in have been applied to domains in which they are not applicable, and the result is the above nonsensical and false propositions. Unfortunately, in point of fact,= we are NOT all the same, we're all very different from one another. Not everybody can do whatever they want ... some people are extremely talented and others have to take their shoes off to count above 10.= =20 Everyone's opinion is NOT valid. Skill levels vary tremendously.= =20 Innate ability varies quite a lot. =20 It is a common feeling that someone who actually HAS achieved a certa= in level of proficiency in a given area, and then has the audacity to actually state that they have achieved something to be proud of and should be given a certain respect in that area, runs into negative reactions due to the constant propaganda of the mass media of the notions elucidated above. This is primarily an American thing, its m= ore pronounced here in the USA that is, though these attitudes/reactions = are showing up more often in Europe, particularly the countries of Northe= rn Europe. The mediterranean countries as a general rule have never pai= d much more than lip service to the ideas underlying the common man the= sis anyway. I have a wallfull of degrees (in non-art related subjects) and understand the phenomenon extremely well from experiencing it first-h= and on both sides of the big pond. Winning arguments by authority isn't = a good way to go in the USA today for the most part, depending on the subject of course (not too many folks are stupid enough to argue with their surgeon when they've got appendicitis though there ARE some tha= t will ). The person who invoked the method of winning arguments by authority here on this list probably made a mistake due to the mixed character of this list. Unfortunately, "art" is a subject in which m= any (most) people think an untutored opinion is just as good as a highly trained one, due to the fallacy of the Kantian notion that "beauty is= in the eye of the beholder" and therefore the intrinsic value of all art= is relative. This ain't so ... there ARE absolute criteria (independent= of opinion) by which one can judge both the value and the efficacy of wo= rks of art ... but I ain't go time to discuss it right now either .... ma= ybe another time.=20 If I were in your shoes, I'd let it go. The remarks were not meant t= o offend or make you feel bad (at least I don't think so ) but rathe= r to give weight to certain remarks and set the remarks apart from mere untutored opinion and put them into the realm of judgments rendered b= y a trained professional. Whydoncha just take the good with the bad and move on? Gotta keep movin' ...... later .....=20 --=20 HAVE FUN .......... ez ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 19:48:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:30:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Chris Kaiser , Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: my 2 cents Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:19:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep9.161939.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Chris Kaiser >this list is not only for professionals,< Actually, Chris, most of this list is = hobbyists. The professionals have long been insulted off of it for offering their opinions, knowledge, education, etc. free of charge to folks whose egos could not take constructive = criticism or advice. It is a shame because we have lost some marvelous resources, like Pawel, the conservator from Poland who could have even taught old dawgs like me a = thing or two. My philosophy is simple: teach everything you know and learn what you don't. No room for hurt feelings there. We all have things to teach someone who knows less than we do, and we all have things to learn from folks who know more. If you want to improve (and some people don't) compare yourself to lots of other glassers, objectively determine how you stack up to them, then figure = out what you need to do to achieve their level. If you just want to do it for kicks, well, then ignore all the improvement = advice. Maybe we should have a code under the subject line like our NG code for non-glass. EDU for education, maybe, so that you know a real lesson is involved in that post? Just a thought. That way the people who are teachers at heart and really love helping others along can do their thing without offending the people who think we are getting too uppity. And the people who really are here to learn, improve, and maybe even have secret dreams of making a living creating art glass can get a pretty darn fabulous education for nothing.... for that matter, you can get that in the archives and skip participating on the list..... I must say it is nice, though, having just given a glass painting workshop to a select group of bungians, to meet some of these folks and to have the pleasure of making real friends with them. The human interaction has its benefits.... as well as its downside. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 19:52:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:31:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mediaone.net!embee From: "Mary" To: "Bungi" Subject: Re: Storing Came Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:07:27 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep9.16727.0> References: <<1999Sep9.133034.0>> Precedence: bulk HI all! I store my came in a very unusual place... underneath my cabinet, on the floor, where the molding forms a kick area. You know what I mean.. where, if you're standing facing your cabinet, that place where the toe of your shoe fits. It keeps them straight and out of my way. I'm crossing my fingers that somebody won't have information that says it's harmful to the came to store this way. Mary ----- Original Message ----- From: Pamela Dimitrovich To: Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 5:30 PM Subject: Storing Came > I'm sure everyone else without a real studio does this too, but if not, here > it is... > > When I was at my supplier this morning, I bought several pieces of came and > noticed that the box he keeps it in was nearly empty. I asked him for the > empty box and he gladly gave it to me. He just placed the 4 remaining pieces > into another box. I would have bought them if I had to. I wanted that box!. > Now I have a safe place to store my came. To keep my different sizes > separate, I will ask him if he would give me a few more. I just didn't think > of it at the time. > > Pam > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 20:10:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:59:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!ACASADO From: ACASADO@webtv.net (Ali Casado) To: jansen1@the-beach.net (D&K JANSEN) Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Glass fusing Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:57:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep9.175755.0> References: <> Precedence: bulk Hi, What is your first name? Yes, I live in Miami and have had a difficult time finding anyone that has an extensive amount of knowledge in fusing and slumping glass. I have been doing it for 3 months and really have learned quite abit by reading and asking questions whenever and wherever I can. Also I experiment quite alot and sometimes I get good results and sometimes not so good. I also work out of my home. Where in Miami do you live? Where do you purchase your glass and fusing supplies? Looking forward to hearing from you. Ali =) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 20:16:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:33:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mediaone.net!embee From: "Mary" To: "Pamela Dimitrovich" , Subject: Re: Cement System Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:09:27 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep9.16927.0> References: <<1999Sep9.142029.0>> Precedence: bulk I use an egg beater attached to my drill to mix the cement when it's separated. Before using the drill, however, I use the handle of a wooden spoon to start the process. If I know I am not going to be using lead for awhile, I will open the container and mix it ever now and then, so it doesn't go back to that hard mess. Mary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 20:27:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:00:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: comox.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@comox.island.net (synergyglass) To: "Pamela Dimitrovich" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Storing Came Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:54:47 -0700 Message-ID: <199909100054.RAA11045@mimas.island.net> Precedence: bulk >I'm sure everyone else without a real studio does this too, but if not, here >it is... > >When I was at my supplier this morning, I bought several pieces of came and >noticed that the box he keeps it in was nearly empty. I asked him for the >empty box and he gladly gave it to me. He just placed the 4 remaining pieces >into another box. I would have bought them if I had to. I wanted that box!. >Now I have a safe place to store my came. To keep my different sizes >separate, I will ask him if he would give me a few more. I just didn't think >of it at the time. Even those of us with a real studio do it too! It's just we have more than one box. I keep mine across a row of old kitchen cabinets I installed to hold bevels and stuff. A tip...seal the box and open an end only. It exposes less of the came to air and oxidation...just pull what you need out of the end. C. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 21:42:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:48:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon From: BMarhon@aol.com To: alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: NG - IMHO? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:44:43 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep10.34443.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 9/9/99 9:43:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net writes: << I've still not figured out LOL, but love ROTFLMHO. >> I thought it was ROTFLMAO ? Brenda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 9 22:05:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:20:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!ACASADO From: ACASADO@webtv.net (Ali Casado) To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Came Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:19:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep9.201928.0> Precedence: bulk What is came? I have been hearing the word constantly, and I'm frustrated not knowing and it seems like everyone else does. Ali =) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 00:03:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:06:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!cecnralph From: Cecily and Ralph Wood To: Bungi Glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Subject: Re: My Two Cents Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 02:13:25 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep9.221325.0> Organization: Grendel Studios Precedence: bulk When 99 and 44/100s percent of the US population is addicted to sports and anti-intellectualism - we few involved with creating things of beauty shouldn't be sniping at each other. We are a continuum of glass, much as waves are a continuum of the physical universe, from slow to fast, large to small, cold to hot, invisible to sound to light. I'm new to Bungi, and what I hope to get out of this is practical help when I need it, and in return I hope I can help others. I also want to think, to grow, and to be inspired. Most of us ascribe to the notion that if a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing well. I should hope Bungi is a major resource for us all. You never can predict who will stick with glass by their proficiency. We do so simply because we love glass and are continually captivated and fascinated and delighted with it. I think we should also remember that quote about how nobody ever erected a statue of a critic. This is not a good media for critiquing. One of the reasons teachers will never be replaced by computers is that teachers are devious, and they work at a psychological level. Although we come to know each other well on a list like this, I doubt we achieve the level of knowledge necessary for teacher manipulation of student. Another thing to remember is that a student cannot absorb what he/she is not ready for. In some ways, the web encourages this remote criticism, because many of us can now act as our own publisher in a world arena, and in the long run, that may be detrimental to progress made a little less publicly. -- ********************************************************************* * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) ********************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 00:28:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:45:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!ACASADO From: ACASADO@webtv.net (Ali Casado) To: cecnralph@home.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Came Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 02:45:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep9.22456.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Cecily and Ralph, Thank you so much for clearing up the mystery of came for me. You drew a picture for me that I can truly understand . I can't begin to tell you how much a part of the bungi family I feel. All of you have been nothing short of wonderfully kind and so very helpful. Thanks again, Ali =) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 01:27:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:31:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cyf-kr.edu.pl!zekarasz From: "Pawel Karaszkiewicz" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Subject: re: my 2 cents Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:29:30 +0200 Message-ID: <199909100728.JAA24677@kinga.cyf-kr.edu.pl> Precedence: bulk Dani,=20 I am still here, lurking. No time for active collaboration but if = something intetersting appears I am always ready. Best regards Pawel from Poland ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 05:51:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 04:34:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: enterprise.net!robertcbullock From: "Robert. C. Bullock." To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Re: Teaching / Creative Block. Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:18:54 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Sep10.121854.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BEFB7E.443C34C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, =20 Robert - another semi lurker here. =20 I am a professional stained glass artist and have been for many years. = The following are my personal experiences and opinions.=20 =20 I have had no academic training in stained glass. I taught myself the = basics and then spent my own money to learn at the elbow of a very old = and experienced stained glass artist. One of the most valuable pieces of = advice he gave to me was, 'Follow the basic rules but if my way doesn't = work for you then do it your way - try new ways and experiment'. =20 I have taught higher education, (not stained glass), and have witnessed = the straight jacket of academic bigotry leading tutors to insist that = students do it their way, actively discouraging free thinking and = experimentation. In many cases the tutors ego surmounts the needs of the = student with the result that students are churned out as tutor clones. =20 Some of the people with academic training who have worked for me, have = been blighted by their educational experiences and have exhibited a lack = of motivation, due mainly to a confusion about working in the real = world. Their creative abilities stem from the formal training they have = been spoon fed and it is doubtful if they will ever stumble upon an = original idea.=20 Others have benefited greatly from the education they have received, and = exhibit great confidence which is grounded in their learning. =20 Some other people, without academic training, exhibit a refreshing, = multi faceted attitude and are highly motivated to learn techniques and = to experiment with new ideas. Others never progress beyond the = enthusiastic hobbyist.=20 No two people are the same and neither is the education they receive. = Everybody deserves the opportunity to try their hand at whatever they = feel like and develop their skills as far as they possibly can. This = requires that they learn. What they learn and where they learn depends = on the individual, their attitude, and their opportunity to encounter = some meaningful experiential learning. No matter how clever, successful, or educated a person is, nobody should = ever think that they know it all. We are all continuously learning and = should seek out those that are prepared to share their experiences with = us, and (hopefully) are able to criticise in a helpful and unbiased = manner on the technical aspect of our work.=20 We should put our pride to one side and accept helpful criticism so that = the work we produce is of the highest possible standard. You won't find much helpful artistic criticism beyond the basics because = all of us have, as a result of our experiences, either educationally or = observationally, developed an individual bias and prejudice. =20 =20 Back to lurking. =20 Regards, =20 Robert. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BEFB7E.443C34C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
 
Robert - another semi lurker = here.
 
I am a professional stained glass = artist and=20 have been for many years. The following are my personal experiences and=20 opinions.
 
I have had no academic training in = stained=20 glass. I taught myself the basics = and then=20 spent my own money to learn at the elbow of a very old and experienced = stained=20 glass artist. One of the most valuable pieces of advice he gave to me = was,=20 'Follow the basic rules but if my way doesn't work for you then do it = your way -=20 try new ways and experiment'.
 
I have taught higher education, (not = stained=20 glass), and have witnessed the straight jacket of academic bigotry = leading=20 tutors to insist that students do it their way, actively discouraging = free=20 thinking and experimentation. In many cases the tutors ego surmounts the = needs=20 of the student with the result that students are churned out as tutor=20 clones.
 
Some of the people with academic = training who=20 have worked for me, have been blighted by their educational experiences = and have=20 exhibited a lack of motivation, due mainly to a confusion about working = in the=20 real world. Their creative abilities stem from the formal training they = have=20 been spoon fed and it is doubtful if they will ever stumble upon an = original=20 idea.
Others have benefited greatly from = the education=20 they have received, and exhibit great confidence which is grounded in = their=20 learning.
 
Some other people, without academic training, = exhibit a=20 refreshing, multi faceted attitude and are highly motivated to learn = techniques=20 and to experiment with new ideas. Others never progress beyond the = enthusiastic=20 hobbyist.
 
No two people are the same and = neither is the=20 education they receive. Everybody deserves the opportunity to try their = hand at=20 whatever they feel like and develop their skills as far as they possibly = can.=20 This requires that they learn. What they learn and where they learn = depends on=20 the individual, their attitude, and their opportunity to encounter some=20 meaningful experiential learning.
No matter how = clever,=20 successful, or educated a person is, nobody should ever think that they = know it=20 all. We are all continuously learning and should seek out those that are = prepared to share their experiences with us, and (hopefully) are able to = criticise in a helpful and unbiased manner on the technical aspect of = our work.=20
We should put our pride to one side and accept = helpful=20 criticism so that the work we produce is of the highest possible=20 standard.
You won't find much helpful artistic criticism = beyond the=20 basics because all of us have, as a result of our experiences, either=20 educationally or observationally, developed an individual bias and=20 prejudice.  
 
 
Back to lurking.
 
Regards,
 
Robert.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BEFB7E.443C34C0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 11:56:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 05:35:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Leadlines From: Leadlines@aol.com To: ACASADO@webtv.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Glass fusing Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:32:17 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep10.123217.0> Precedence: bulk Ali, Sorry I have no experience with fusing or slumping. Did make some glass beads way back when....but found that too time consuming at the time. Would like to fuse some glass jewelry one of these days.......it's in the book. Good luck. Luanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 12:03:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 05:38:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Leadlines From: Leadlines@aol.com To: Awbaxter@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Teaching/creative block Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:14:30 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep10.121430.0> Precedence: bulk Ann, It's Gilbertson's..........www.stainedartglass.com Luanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 12:03:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 06:24:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Artists or not? was Re: Teaching/creative block Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:12:05 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep10.13125.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 9/9/99 3:06:39 PM, artglass@waterw.com writes: >People who copy designs are not artists....... I've been trying to come to terms with that idea (and the inferiority complex I got from it) for quite a while. I grew up in an "artsy" family - my mom's a fiber artist specializing in church banners, and one of my brothers is a computer graphic design professional. I've always loved art of all kinds but have struggled with a lack of the "creative juices" that give rise to truly original work, not just in the arts but in other areas as well. My strength lies in resourcefulness and problem-solving and mechanical ability rather than "creativity" per se, and in the hands-on construction of a piece of art. In my current situation (working for Christie Wood off-and-on for almost 3 years now, recently it's been a steady 3 days a week and going to 4 as of next week) I've finally begun to make peace with the fact that there's an important place in this world for folks like me who consider ourselves artisans rather than "true artists." OK, so I'm not a designer, but I'm getting pretty good at the fabrication end of things (If I may say so myself) and I get a tremendous satisfaction out of it (in fact, this is the only job I've ever had that's worth commuting 45 minutes one way on a motor scooter in almost any kind of weather!). It's also a situation that fits my personality and work style very well. I'm a back-office "leave-me-alone-and let-me-work" type. I hate having to deal with the public on a regular basis (I can do it reasonably well if I have to, but it beats the hell out of my psyche), and while I like being *around* people when I work, I generally don't particularly work *with* them. I'm at my best when I can see what needs to be done, head for the workbench, and chug away contentedly for several hours. (What? 6:00 already? Time to clean up and go home, I guess......) So....... an artist I'm not (except for the occasional flash of inspiration from left field somewhere), but an artisan (at least in the making) I am, and proud of it! We now return you to your regularly scheduled program already in progress. Sparks (weird bird without art degree) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 12:03:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 05:59:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Leadlines From: Leadlines@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: bye albert Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:39:19 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep10.123919.0> Precedence: bulk What did I miss? Where is Albert going? Luanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 12:15:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 06:42:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Cement System Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:12:09 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep10.13129.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 9/9/99 7:34:42 PM, dimitrovich@wolf.net writes: >Question - was this cement going bad? Or does it get like that after a >period of time, but is still usable? If so, how long does it take to nearly >solidify like that? It always settles like that until it's practically impossible to mix up. The longer it sits, the harder it gets. As far as I know, it's not "gone bad" until it's completely dried out. As long as it's still a little "wet," you can thin it with some boiled linseed oil and turpentine and keep right on using it. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 12:22:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:17:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Fw: my 2 cents Date: Fri Sep 10 10:15:03 1999 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.7533.0> Organization: taylor'd Expressions Precedence: bulk > well chris > this is one professional that had not yet been insulted off, but getting > close > > since i am not considered a professional or artist on this list, you are > welcome to e-mail me at kleeman@one.net and i will gladly answer any > question you might have! > > debbie > > taylor'd Expressions > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dani Greer > To: Chris Kaiser ; Everyone > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 8:19 PM > Subject: my 2 cents > > > > Message text written by Chris Kaiser > > >this list is not only for professionals,< > > > > Actually, Chris, most of this list is = > > > > hobbyists. The professionals have > > long been insulted off of it for offering > > their opinions, knowledge, education, > > etc. free of charge to folks whose > > egos could not take constructive = > > > > criticism or advice. It is a shame because we have lost > > some marvelous resources, like Pawel, > > the conservator from Poland who could > > have even taught old dawgs like me a = > > > > thing or two. My philosophy is simple: > > teach everything you know and learn > > what you don't. No room for hurt feelings > > there. We all have things to teach someone > > who knows less than we do, and we all > > have things to learn from folks who know > > more. If you want to improve (and some > > people don't) compare yourself to lots > > of other glassers, objectively determine > > how you stack up to them, then figure = > > > > out what you need to do to achieve their > > level. If you just want to do it for kicks, > > well, then ignore all the improvement = > > > > advice. Maybe we should have a code > > under the subject line like our NG code > > for non-glass. EDU for education, > > maybe, so that you know a real lesson > > is involved in that post? Just a thought. > > That way the people who are teachers > > at heart and really love helping others > > along can do their thing without offending > > the people who think we are getting too > > uppity. And the people who really are > > here to learn, improve, and maybe even > > have secret dreams of making a living > > creating art glass can get a pretty darn > > fabulous education for nothing.... for > > that matter, you can get that in the > > archives and skip participating on the > > list..... I must say it is nice, though, having > > just given a glass painting workshop to > > a select group of bungians, to meet some > > of these folks and to have the pleasure of > > making real friends with them. The human > > interaction has its benefits.... as well as its > > downside. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Dani Greer > > Greer Gallery & Studios > > http://www.igga.org/greer/ = > > > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 12:32:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:06:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cs.com!RCall10713 From: RCall10713@cs.com To: GreerStudios@compuserve.com, christkaiser@yahoo.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: my 2 cents Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:04:04 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep10.1844.0> Precedence: bulk I all the time I've spent learning from this list, I don't think I've ever "heard" the concept expressed, as well. When I somehow stumbled upon this list, one of the first things I, a self-taught hobbyist, at the time ,was taken by was, "My God, here are real artists, experts, if you will, who are answering my and other folks sometimes odd questions, FOR FREE!!!!. What a concept!!! Who said there is no free lunch? There certainly is here! I, for one have grown both artistically and temperamentally (i.e., seeing art or craft for its own sake) in geometric proportion. Like Dani, I used to shudder, when I saw nasty, or mean spirited responses, constructive suggestions taken in an immature way, and all the other parts of what has often been termed "man's inhumanity to man" take place on this list. Like Dani mentioned, I too, saw that some very neat and exceptionally artistic people began to participate less, and some just dropped out. After all folks, it's good to keep one's expectations low when dealing with people as a whole, but this has some limits. Why should someone who has a wealth of information, or a caring love for the art continue to give, and give (for free yet), and have to take a bunch of @!#$ from others for doing so? Even the kindest heart will begin to harden, at that. I think all of us who participate, should realize what we have had, and still do have, and try to keep it intact, at all costs. Let this art form become one of joy and relaxation, leave your ax for grinding in the garage, or your frustrations elsewhere. I'm sure there are support lists for manic depressives, or paranoids, to be found, elsewhere. If I've offended anyone, that was not my intent. I just think the message that is being imparted here should be heeded. Richard Glassics Artglass Studio Valencia, CA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 12:42:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:21:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: Ali Casado Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Came Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:17:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep10.61723.0> References: <<1999Sep9.201928.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Ali Casado wrote: > > What is came? I have been hearing the word constantly, and I'm > frustrated not knowing and it seems like everyone else does. > > Ali =) > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass came is commonly the lead channel that goes in between the pieces of glass. commonly seen in church windows. it's profile looks generally like an H or a C. they make came out of lead, brass, copper, and plastic. brass is used alot in bevel doors. copper is used alot in border frames. and plastic is used by idiots... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 12:51:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:02:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Storing Came Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:09:23 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <199909101510.KAA09882@relay.acns.nwu.edu> Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk Forgive me if I've mentioned this before, but in the studio where I'm known to hang out (at least one evening a week), the guy stores zinc (and some other stuff, but not came) in long cardboard tubes. The clever thing, I thought, was that when he was remodeling, he left open the end of a divider wall. Don't know exactly how he configured the studs to accommodate this, but the tubes are stacked inside the wall. Kaye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 13:20:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:02:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "ALI CASADO" , "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Fw: hairline crack Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:31:38 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep10.23138.0> Precedence: bulk >>>Bob, > Do you think the dichoric in between the other sheets may have >had an effect on the crack?<< > >I was hoping that question would not come up because the answer is so >uncertain. It could well be that one of the glasses (dichoric ?) is >incompatible either at the start or as a result of the firing program(s). >This multi layer 12" disk was fired twice and is reported to have cracked on >the second firing. My simple answer is that the second firing was to fast. I >would not go at a higher rate of advance than 300'F with a top firing kiln >or 200'F with a side firing kiln. > >Then there is the problem of the colored glass stealing heat which >introduced strain and cracked the glass. The only remedy I know for this is >to go slow. Not having done much work with dichoric I can only guess that it >has a set of problems of its own when fused in larger pieces. > >Whatever happened occurred on the way up and not on the way down. Downside >cracks are sharp and in my experience always go all the way through the >glass. Even a small downside crack will complete itself soon. > >Bob in SOCAL > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 13:20:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:03:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: erols.com!deethom From: Dee Thompson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Storing Came Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:46:35 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990910094633.0098f06c@pop.erols.com> Precedence: bulk my work table is 4x8, and there is a shelf under it for the wooden shipping boxes...prior to ever getting a whole box, I got the heavy cardboard rolls from a carpet outlet, sawed to length, and then in half lengthways. Then hung them with straps under the table...They are out of the way in and easy to pull one at a time when you want it. cutting the tubes in half lengthways made it easy to just lay the came in. They rolls were free and the same ones are still being used 10 years later. Dee ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 13:31:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:17:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Cecily and Ralph Wood Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: My Two Cents Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:16:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep10.11163.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Cecily and Ralph Wood >When 99 and 44/100s percent of the US population is addicted to sports and anti-intellectualism -< Is this true or did you make it up? I find it an interesting statistic because several = years ago when I was still having art shows every six week in my gallery and was very involved with promoting the arts in my city, I sat down and crunched some numbers. I came to the conclusion that, at the very most, one percent of the population of my city frequents a live art-related event on some regular basis, say once a month. In my county, that would be about 5,000 people. Probably only 10% of = those folks regularly buy original art. A group = of gallery owners sat down one day, pooled their customer lists, and estimated our real customer base was about 500 people! The same folks over and over.... everyone talks a great line about supporting the arts, but = hardly anyone puts their money where there mouth is. For a long time, I had a sign in my shop that read: "Support the arts... buy some." Raised a few eyebrows! LOL. Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 13:49:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:19:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Robert. C. Bullock." Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Teaching / Creative Block. Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:16:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep10.111611.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Robert. C. Bullock." >No matter how clever, successful, or educated a person is, nobody should= =3D ever think that they know it all.< I absolutely agree with this.... and, in fact, when I first joined bungi years ago a discussion of = cement formulas for leaded panels came up. I had my first bungi lesson from some real pros.... that our practice of adding Portland cement and plaster of Paris to the cement mix had been shown by conservators to be very damaging to windows! We stopped doing that almost immediately... it did not take a lot of convincing. On the other hand, I have enough knowledge and intelligence to know that waxing a stained glass window is not adding any value to my work so I'm not going to be suckered into buying yet another nicely packaged product. There = may be perfectly valid uses of wax, but not on church windows. Having said all that, I will assert that a good teacher will insist on a foundation of tried-and- true basics, before cutting a student loose to do their own thing. And for those of you new to the list, try to remember that part of my personal reason for contributing time and = energy to this list is to train the next generation of professionals.... even if only a handful = amongst you is in that group. We all have a responsibility to pass the baton.... = Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 13:52:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:33:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Artists or not? was Re: Teaching/creative block Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:30:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep10.11300.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com >So....... an artist I'm not (except for the occasional flash of inspiration = from left field somewhere), but an artisan (at least in the making) I am,= and = proud of it! < Ta Da! Congratulations. And you know what, Sparks. = I still like you just as much, maybe more. I like the receptionist next door, too, even if she is not the "customer service professional" that my bank has to answer the phone. Besides, you swing a mean Viking axe... I've seen those pics! Best regards, Dani Greer Internationally unknown glass artist whose husband is going fire her along with the computer if she doesn't do = some real work soon..... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 14:06:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:32:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: "Modiano, Victor" To: 'bungi' , "'Witchdoc3@aol.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Artists or not? Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:35:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep10.113559.0> Precedence: bulk Sparks You are selling yourself way short. Granted you may not be an artist, but an artisan is frequently more creative than the artist. The artist may have the "VISION" but who is it that gives that vision life. Often overcoming problems and obstacles the artists never thinks about. (That is not a criticism of Christie. We met briefly at Glass Visions and that was it. Not a good basis for professional criticism.) Look at the fabled work of Tiffany. He designed some of it, picked glass occasionally and actually built none of it. There are a number of artist who create by directing their apprentices. Their hands never touch the brush. But it is their name on the "canvas" and check. Sparks, you may not be able to create your own pattern but what you do with other peoples patterns is creative. The glass that you pick, the section of it that you use for each piece, even the way you solder it all together shows your creativity. You I did talk to at Glass Visions. And you very much have that creative fire in you. The problem has always been finding you own talents. Vic M. who also can't draw worth a damn but has learned to deal with it. vmodino@ctronsoft.com -----Original Message----- From: Witchdoc3@aol.com [mailto:Witchdoc3@aol.com] Sent: Friday, September 10, 1999 9:12 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Artists or not? was Re: Teaching/creative block In a message dated 9/9/99 3:06:39 PM, artglass@waterw.com writes: >People who copy designs are not artists....... I've been trying to come to terms with that idea (and the inferiority complex I got from it) for quite a while. .... So....... an artist I'm not (except for the occasional flash of inspiration from left field somewhere), but an artisan (at least in the making) I am, and proud of it! We now return you to your regularly scheduled program already in progress. Sparks (weird bird without art degree) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 14:39:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:56:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "jazzykid" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: NG:Art was Re: my 2 cents Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:16:01 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep10.11161.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "jazzykid" > And, I can say this after... someone planted a real pipe bomb where I wor= k yesterday. And 2 more phone calls of bomb scares today. So,please, Be Kind!< Good grief, Jill... glad to hear you're okay. Glad to hear from you, period, you lurker you! Many years ago when I was a fledgling oil painter, I read in some book that "artists are the harbingers of hope in a society". I've long since forgotten the title or the auther and even the exact words, but the spirit of that statement remains with me. I made a conscious decision at that point that I would stop creating work that was considered by my peers and superiors as cutting-edge cool... and I would engage in beauty. Not negative social comment. Not shock. Not schlock. Just beauty. Art that spoke of what society and humanity could and should be, as Ayn Rand pointed out.... not what it is. Will I ever acquire national renown? Probably not. Will I bring a smile to lots of faces? Daily. To everyone who has ever bought my work. That is precisely *why they buy my work. It makes them feel good. Ironically, a good = many of them are professional artists! .... and some of them very cutting edge! Go figure.... And, just for the record, I'm also asked to jury work that is considered contemporary and cutting edge... because studying art history tends to make you kinda objective when judging art. Yes, indeed, having historic knowledge does make you a better judge. It is not just a matter of taste. = Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 15:02:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:59:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!cecnralph From: Cecily and Ralph Wood To: Dani Greer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Subject: Re: My Two Cents Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:03:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep10.1335.0> References: <<199909101516_MC2-8464-3713@compuserve.com>> Organization: Grendel Studios Precedence: bulk I must admit I made that up (does anyone remember the Ivory soap commercial?). It would be interesting to see - of the many people who use Excite/Netscape/AOL, etc and actually customize their come-up page, the statistics for people like my husband and me who actually jettison the whole category of sports! Speaking of statistics, may I jump to the topic of formal education vs pick-me-up and informal. Statistics I really did read show that fewer than half (I think WAY fewer) of all college graduates actually work in their major and minor fields. The same article also pointed out that during the last 30 years or so, a large number of people change fields/careers, whatever in mid-life. Dani Greer wrote: > Message text written by Cecily and Ralph Wood > >When 99 and 44/100s percent of the US population is addicted to sports > and anti-intellectualism -< > > Is this true or did you make it up? I find it > an interesting statistic because several > years ago when I was still having art shows > every six week in my gallery and was very involved > with promoting the arts in my city, I sat down > and crunched some numbers. I came to the > conclusion that, at the very most, one percent > of the population of my city frequents a live > art-related event on some regular basis, say > once a month. In my county, that would be > about 5,000 people. Probably only 10% of > those folks regularly buy original art. A group > of gallery owners sat down one day, pooled > their customer lists, and estimated our real > customer base was about 500 people! The > same folks over and over.... everyone talks > a great line about supporting the arts, but > hardly anyone puts their money where there > mouth is. For a long time, I had a sign in my > shop that read: > > "Support the arts... buy some." Raised a few > eyebrows! LOL. > > Best, > > Dani Greer -- ********************************************************************* * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) ********************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 15:08:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:39:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: "Modiano, Victor" To: 'bungi' , "'Witchdoc3@aol.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Artists or not? Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:35:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep10.113559.0> Precedence: bulk Sparks You are selling yourself way short. Granted you may not be an artist, but an artisan is frequently more creative than the artist. The artist may have the "VISION" but who is it that gives that vision life. Often overcoming problems and obstacles the artists never thinks about. (That is not a criticism of Christie. We met briefly at Glass Visions and that was it. Not a good basis for professional criticism.) Look at the fabled work of Tiffany. He designed some of it, picked glass occasionally and actually built none of it. There are a number of artist who create by directing their apprentices. Their hands never touch the brush. But it is their name on the "canvas" and check. Sparks, you may not be able to create your own pattern but what you do with other peoples patterns is creative. The glass that you pick, the section of it that you use for each piece, even the way you solder it all together shows your creativity. You I did talk to at Glass Visions. And you very much have that creative fire in you. The problem has always been finding you own talents. Vic M. who also can't draw worth a damn but has learned to deal with it. vmodino@ctronsoft.com -----Original Message----- From: Witchdoc3@aol.com [mailto:Witchdoc3@aol.com] Sent: Friday, September 10, 1999 9:12 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Artists or not? was Re: Teaching/creative block In a message dated 9/9/99 3:06:39 PM, artglass@waterw.com writes: >People who copy designs are not artists....... I've been trying to come to terms with that idea (and the inferiority complex I got from it) for quite a while. .... So....... an artist I'm not (except for the occasional flash of inspiration from left field somewhere), but an artisan (at least in the making) I am, and proud of it! We now return you to your regularly scheduled program already in progress. Sparks (weird bird without art degree) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 15:31:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:55:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Artists or not? was Re: Teaching/creative block Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:26:40 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <199909102027.PAA12375@relay.acns.nwu.edu> Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk Thanks, Sparks. Again you've articulately stated how many of us feel (well, me anyway). So often I see newbies come into the studio who fancy themselves "artists" and they fight every instruction as an insult to their creativity. Drives me nuts! They can't be bothered with a "beginner" panel (and the guy offers a variety to choose from) which incorporates a copper foiled center into a leaded panel. They know practically nothing about glass, but impatiently push the envelope at every step. While I recognize (and often admire) the character traits of the creative types, I can't abide those who want to run before they can walk, and treat everyone else as an impediment (even those from whom they are supposed to be learning). Reminds me of the time a friend wanted me to teach her to sew. Cotton was too boring---she had to start with something filmy. Then she couldn't wait until I got there and started on her own. Unfortunately she didn't know the difference between a "facing" and "interfacing." Made a big mess and announced upon my arrival that the pattern instructions had to be wrong. Uh huh. I've "designed" a few projects, but I'm generally perfectly content (at this stage) to execute the patterns of those who have some drawing ability. My "creative capacity" gets sufficient exercise in choosing just the right glass, improving my cutting & soldering skills, and satisfying my handful of customers. While I hope to continue to grow at this craft, I know I'll never be an Oddy-caliber artist. Still, I know I can create beautiful, unique things for myself and others. And that's just fine! Kaye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 15:53:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:56:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!cecnralph From: Cecily and Ralph Wood To: Bungi Glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Subject: Re: Artists or not: Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:09:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep10.13933.0> Organization: Grendel Studios Precedence: bulk In a message dated 9/9/99 3:06:39 PM, artglass@waterw.com writes: >People who copy designs are not artists....... If you look at that in musical terms you will see that is not so. If Danial Berenboim (sp?) only plays other people's compositions or conducts them, is he not a musician? Reducto ad absurdum. -- ********************************************************************* * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) ********************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 15:58:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:30:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: My Two Cents Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:29:35 +0000 Message-ID: <199909102228.SAA18568@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > people like my husband and me who > actually jettison the whole category of sports! Yesssssss! People after mine own heart. Sports? Nah; read a book. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 16:13:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:43:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: ODP: Pawel Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:55:50 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep10.125550.0> Precedence: bulk I am forwarding the following from our bungi friend, Pawel, in Poland who is a conservator.... with some = comments I felt were pertinent to = the group and some recent threads. Best~Dani Greer -------------Forwarded Message----------------- From: Pawel Karaszkiewicz, INTERNET:zekarasz@cyf-kr.edu.pl To: "'Dani Greer'", GreerStudios = Date: 9/10/99 12:51 PM RE: ODP: Pawel Dani, Nothing to do with clairvoyancy - I read your letter mentioning my name a= nd = responded. For the time being I am only lurking bungi due to lack of time. But waxing.. I remember this thread. For a sh= ort = time and on modern stable glass it does not matter. But wax layer will = cach dirt much faster than clean glass and to clean it one must use = solvent which is always danegerous and may weaken or even dissolve seale= r = in leading. Finally, panel will get dull and weaker. We know that olde= r, = not stable glasses may react with linseed oil from putty. Maybe it can = happen to wax too - this I do not know. In general it is safer in long = range not to use any organic "protective layers" on glass - in real windo= w = they always deteriorate and may even foster corrosion accumulating water = in = small fissures. But it may not happen in our life. I am sitting at computer desk writing lectures for Summer Conservation = School (NG) I have on Monday. Pawel ---------- Od: Dani Greer Wys?ano: 10 wrze?nia 1999 21:16 Do: Pawel Karaszkiewicz Temat: Pawel Message text written by "Pawel Karaszkiewicz" >< Pawel, you must be clairvoyant! I just mentioned your name on bungi yesterday and what a loss it was that you were no longer participating on the list. We did recently have a somewhat conservation related question.... regarding the American practice of waxing stained glass windows! What is your professional opinion of waxing a stained glass window to make it shine? I would love to forward your comments to bungi. More later.... a customer just walked in. It is so very good to hear from you! Best regards, Dani Greer ----------------------- Internet Header -------------------------------- Sender: zekarasz@cyf-kr.edu.pl Received: from info.cyf-kr.edu.pl (info.cyf-kr.edu.pl [149.156.4.11]) by spdmgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.5) with ESMTP id PAA02230 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:50:59 -0400 (EDT)= Received: from kinga.cyf-kr.edu.pl (kinga.cyf-kr.edu.pl [149.156.2.32]) by info.cyf-kr.edu.pl (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA22723 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:50:52 +0200 (METD= ST) Received: from 205.asp.krakow.pl ([149.156.19.25]) by kinga.cyf-kr.edu.pl (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA19896 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:50:21 +0200 (METD= ST) Received: by 205.asp.krakow.pl with Microsoft Mail id <01BEFBD6.78327B60@205.asp.krakow.pl>; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:50:17 +-20= 0 Message-ID: <01BEFBD6.78327B60@205.asp.krakow.pl> From: Pawel Karaszkiewicz To: "'Dani Greer'" Subject: ODP: Pawel Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:50:15 +-200 Encoding: 48 TEXT ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 16:48:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:31:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: My Two Cents Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:19:11 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep10.91911.0> Precedence: bulk >People who copy designs are not artists.......<< Sounds like an over simplified general statement. I would tend to agree that exact and close copies are more a demonstration of technical skill than artistic ability. Beyond that the statement is open to question. A painter, bronze worker or stained glass person that makes a flower found in nature is surely making a copy. They are just using a different medium. I say they are eligible to be considered as artists even if they copy from each other. Gainsborough copied "Pinky" and rare is the person that would not call him a great artist. Truth is, he had a lot of help from the dress maker and the child. Cutting edge art has a market. The problem is that it may be out of favor in a few years. So......... if you buy any of it be sure that you like it and are not banking on some future value. Stained glass can last a long time and more conventional approaches may well be the best way to go. Besides our "art" has it's limitations. By that I mean that there is a limit to what is reasonable of accomplishment is glass. Do not be discouraged by the "art" work sold at the Home Depot. It is for the masses and serves to raise the art outlook of some. It is a low end market that we can not serve. A very few of these people will become our future clients. IMO, the overall effect is positive for stained glass. Bob (who needs to divide his blue iris so they can be copied in the spring) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 17:50:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:16:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: capecod.net!jaugusta From: Joseph Augusta To: glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Tech tip? Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:32:02 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep10.15322.0> Precedence: bulk Here's a simple question that's looking for an answer. You have 3 chunks of blown glass--transparent red, yellow and green--2 or 3 inches thick-- irregular shaped--like rounded polygons. You want to place them into a composition with a lot of black between them, then frame the entire thing to hang from the ceiling in front of a window. Any how-to ideas? Best wishes, Joseph ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 18:22:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:47:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne Gunn To: Cecily and Ralph Wood , glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: My Two Cents Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:42:37 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep10.124237.0> References: <<1999Sep10.1335.0>> Precedence: bulk > Speaking of statistics, may I jump to the topic of formal education vs > pick-me-up and informal. Statistics I really did read show that fewer > than half (I think WAY fewer) of all college graduates actually work in > their major and minor fields. The same article also pointed out that > during the last 30 years or so, a large number of people change > fields/careers, whatever in mid-life. one of the facts I was taught while in College studying society and our rules and laws...was that the average person changes careers in a major way about 7 times. Of course. It has been 19 years since I graduated from college...so Im sure it has changed...probably gone up. Suzanne, who would have majored in Art, but I HATED my art history classes and changed my major so I could drop those classes and take something I liked...like basket weaving and ceramics. California State Univ at Fresno, had some great basket weaving classes by the way (at least in the '70's). ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 18:55:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:44:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: Joseph Augusta Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Tech tip? Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:03:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep10.17341.0> References: <<1999Sep10.15322.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Joseph Augusta wrote: > > Here's a simple question that's looking for an answer. You have 3 > chunks of blown glass--transparent red, yellow and green--2 or 3 inches > thick-- irregular shaped--like rounded polygons. You want to place them > into a composition with a lot of black between them, then frame the > entire thing to hang from the ceiling in front of a window. > > Any how-to ideas? > > Best wishes, > Joseph > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass chihuly wraps wire around the necks of his pieces. though without a picture of some kind, it's hard to imagine... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 19:56:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:36:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Bob Duchesneau" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: My Two Cents Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:33:27 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep10.183327.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Bob Duchesneau" >Bob (who needs to divide his blue iris so they can be copied in the spring)< Ooohh, send me some and I'll copy some for you, too. I do a mean iris in soft pastel... to die for! Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 20:16:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:36:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Kaye Sodt" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Artists or not? was Re: Teaching/creative block Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:33:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep10.183320.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Kaye Sodt" >Thanks, Sparks. = Again you've articulately stated how many of us feel (well, me = anyway). So often I see newbies come into the studio who fancy = themselves "artists" and they fight every instruction as an insult to = their creativity. Drives me nuts! They can't be bothered with a = "beginner" panel (and the guy offers a variety to choose from) which = incorporates a copper foiled center into a leaded panel. They know = practically nothing about glass, but impatiently push the envelope = at every step. < And double thanks from me to both of you.... I was beginning to think it was a sin to have standards! Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 20:30:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:51:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Modiano, Victor" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Artists or not? Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:41:22 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep10.164122.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Modiano, Victor" >He designed some of it, picked glass occasionally and actually built none of it.< And some would also say that there were many better artists, too... I would be one of them. He was a moderately accomplished = painter, though downright terrible at figurative work. He did, however, put his money (and his father's) where his mouth was, and helped raise the profile of stained glass in America then and thereafter.... All said looking at history from a comparative standpoint. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & STudios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 20:44:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:57:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Suzanne Gunn Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: My Two Cents Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:53:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep10.185330.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Suzanne Gunn >but I HATED my art history classes< Wow, and those classes are the only ones I feel really did me any good in preparing me for a career in art! I resent most of the time and money I spent on studio classes... learning things like the difference between the mark I make when I sign a check and the mark I make when I draw a portrait. '60's mental gymnastics. I'm = still learning on my own... everything from drawing well to developing enough skill to draw from memory. I spent an entire summer drawing nothing but hands and feet every day because they are the hardest = thing about the human figure and nobody made me do it! I can count on one hand the number of really good art teachers I had... and I can count my careers on one hand, too! Only three... and Michael has been a stained glass artist since out of school with only a short stint as a textile designer. Well, that proves it... we're real oddballs, and with no intention of ever retiring by choice. That's what happens when you find your life's work and can make a good living at it! Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 21:01:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:24:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Cecily and Ralph Wood Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Artists or not: Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:33:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep10.183323.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Cecily and Ralph Wood >is he not a musician?< No, but he is not a songwriter. Just as one can be a very good craftsman or artisan, and not necessarily an artist. Correct terminology and understanding of the definitions just creates clear communication and understanding. Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 21:18:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:41:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: heesun.com!keane From: "Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd." To: "Joseph Augusta" , "glass" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Tech tip? Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:01:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep10.18115.0> Precedence: bulk Why not an epoxy system like one used for Dalle de verre, Key epoxy resin company produces it and it is marketed through Blenko. This would allow you to cast these three pieces into a panel which could then be framed and hung. Just a thought Robert . Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd. 888-508-5595 http://www.heesun.com Custom Design Studio , Supplies & Classes for Stained & Fused Glass & Mosaics -----Original Message----- From: Joseph Augusta To: glass Date: Friday, September 10, 1999 8:56 PM Subject: Tech tip? >Here's a simple question that's looking for an answer. You have 3 >chunks of blown glass--transparent red, yellow and green--2 or 3 inches >thick-- irregular shaped--like rounded polygons. You want to place them >into a composition with a lot of black between them, then frame the >entire thing to hang from the ceiling in front of a window. > >Any how-to ideas? > >Best wishes, >Joseph > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 21:39:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:54:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mediaone.net!embee From: "Mary" To: Subject: Re: My Two Cents Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:10:01 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep10.18101.0> References: <<1999Sep10.124237.0>> Precedence: bulk I had somewhat of a different route to art. My brother, who has died, was a fine artist... both by talent and by education. He achieved his PhD in Poetry and was awarded his diploma posthumously. Since he was so incredibly talented in many different media, I shied away from evey attempting any form of art. I couldn't pick up a pencil and just draw as effortlessly as he did, so I assumed I was simply not destined to be artistic. Occasionally in my life, I drew this and that, and found that I was marginally gifted, but still felt insecure enough to avoid any serious approach. In my forties, I just decided to do whatever caught my fancy, and started in pottery. Since then, I have gone from that to painting in acrylics, to charcoal, pencil, and finally stained glass. In our family, the "girls" weren't allowed to go away to college, so I chose hairstyling, since I had enormous natural ability. Though I hate that I missed out on formal education beyond some college classes, I have been extremely happy in my profession, owning two businesses and still looking forward to going to work each day. Stained glass is one of those arts that I had always fantasized about making. I find myself almost obsessed with planning, cutting and constructing all manner of glass items, from windows to free hanging panels to boxes. I feel I have learned a great amount from being on this list, and for that I am appreciative. Just wanted to say thank you to all the people who take the time to contribute toward this love affair I am having with glass! You're all very generous! Mary Barry ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 21:53:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:09:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summitstudio From: Mike Peck To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: The E-Tour in Kansas City Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:10:43 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep10.181043.0> References: <<199909102349.XAA23618@saturn.nildram.co.uk>> Organization: Summit Stained Glass (http://www.summitstudio.com) Precedence: bulk Hi Everybody, The E-Tour has now progressed to Kansas City and tomorrow (Saturday) it will be full swing. I am currently staying with Mike Peck (erstwhile - but not currently on Bungi)and his family. Yesterday we had a look in a couple of churches in KC with (one at least signed) Mayer glass from the Munich Studio in Germany and the other one reputedly also from Mayer / Munich Studio. Both of the locations displayed the same symptoms; The black tracery painting is seriously flaking and peeling off.The matt painting appeared to wear better, but higher up in the panels there were some signs of sad looking bald patches. When I say flaking and peeling off, I literally mean just that. You could scrape it off with your finger nails. It was rather sad, because the artistry itself is exquisite. The cathedral church itself in K.C. is very badly affected (The Cathedral of The Immaculate Conception).The paint is flaking off to such an extent that in about 10-20 years there will be a cathedral with only muddy looking ghost glass. Any ideas of what might have happened?? Today Mike took me to a convent with some panels by Henry Keck. I have not heard of him before and not seen any work by him (as a result). But I was totally floored by his use of paints, glass, colours and creating depth. WOW!! Tomorrow (Saturday) is Workshop day. There are about 13 or 14 happy (?) victims lined up, but I don't know how many from Bungi. Wish me luck, dear friends (or the victims..... whichever standpoint you have).On Monday morning, it will be travel time again; I will leave Kansas City at about 5 in the morning and after about 4 flight changes I will arrive at Carol Swann's round about 11 at night?? (Carol: Please keep any replies into Bungi to my mail, as I won't be able to see any here... please.... thanks!!) Oh, I have seen some of the "famous" teaching videos so many of you have been talking about over the years.... I was highly amused to notice that Vicky Payne held her grozer pliers the wrong way up when grozing; tsk! tsk! tsk! As regards some of the other videos.... hmm, I think I'd better keep my big mouth shut. Take care - all of you, I'll catch up with you from Carol Swann's. Elisabeth (missing Toby in UK) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 22:04:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:31:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne Gunn To: Joseph Augusta , glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Tech tip? Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:34:38 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep10.163438.0> References: <<1999Sep10.15322.0>> Precedence: bulk Sounds like a classroom assignment. Does it matter what the black is made of? Suzanne Joseph Augusta wrote: > > Here's a simple question that's looking for an answer. You have 3 > chunks of blown glass--transparent red, yellow and green--2 or 3 inches > thick-- irregular shaped--like rounded polygons. You want to place them > into a composition with a lot of black between them, then frame the > entire thing to hang from the ceiling in front of a window. > > Any how-to ideas? > > Best wishes, > Joseph > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Suzanne ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Choosing is only difficult for those with imagination ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 10 22:34:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:21:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cyf-kr.edu.pl!zekarasz From: "Pawel Karaszkiewicz" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Subject: Re: artist or not Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:19:50 +0200 Message-ID: <199909110518.HAA05109@kinga.cyf-kr.edu.pl> Precedence: bulk There are some mixed thoughs concerning last treads on artist and = newbies =20 Anybody can be an artist if she/he has an creative approach to the work = of any kind. Everybody knows cooks, tailors etc creating and inventing = new things. They are artists in their proffession. In stained glass the situation is similar: someone, putting together = pieces of glass according to pattern is just a stained glass maker - a = skilfull craftsmen. In the history of stained glass this divison was = always clear (cf. Cennino Cennini's book about painting from early = Renessaince period). Such a craftsman - artisan is a very important = member of any stained glass studio but an artist can learn stained glass = making and non creative craftsmen cannot learn arts - this is maybe the = main diffrence. Creative approach always looks for new solutions, = methods, creation. Craftsman - like one sticks to familiar, skilfully = developed techniques. =20 So, everybody must decide himself wheather he/she is an artist or = artisan or craftsman. The succes or lack of it will show, if the choice was right or not. And = of course it is better to be a good craftsmen that poor artist.=20 Newbies: I deal with them for years since I lecture at the Academy of = Fine Arts. Funny enough I teach conservation science to students of = Conservation Dept (stained glass conservation is my second profession). = This is normal that at the very beginnig they are eager to do something = special, interesting, new. It is the curiosity - a very important = feature of any creative person. But, after some failures, another = approach should develope: patient, hard work. If it not appears - such a = person either gives up or he/she will be always a poor hobbyist. The questions newbies ask are very basic and sometimes sound naive or = even stupid. But, we proffesionals are also a craftsmen using our own = tips we are familiar with and accustomed to. Simple basic questions = force us to come back to roots of our profession and, sometimes,. they = show new posiibilities and a new approach to methods which we apply = mechanically. Pawel (at 4.AM) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 02:41:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 02:02:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!tifstyorig From: Diane W Manchester To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Unfair question? Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:01:12 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep10.15112.0> Precedence: bulk Gee Dani, I have been on this list for awhile and I still took Mike seriously. :>) I think he deserves some credit. ;>) After all, he is definately not afraid to try new things. Diane Manchester ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 05:14:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 04:04:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!ARTIZ01 From: ARTIZ01@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: cleaning Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:02:26 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep11.11226.0> Precedence: bulk I am new to bungi, I really am enjoying this group. Can you tell me from start- to -finish the proper way to clean. I bought a small stained glass business and we manufacture windows and door lites etc. Since this was a previous business, all the methods of building and cleaning were set. Our employees do wonderful work and the windows are beautifully cleaned and shiny. But oh it really takes long to clean one window. Any tips would be appreciated. After we clean we also insulate and there cannot be any finger prints or smudges. Has anyone ever tried a lustre brush, from PZAFF. I was thinking about ordering one to make the process go quicker. Would appreciate any help. And also thank you for the shipping and packaging tips ,and as soon as these 15 windows get cleaned we will be able to ship. Thanks Bunny ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 05:24:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 04:17:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: capecod.net!jaugusta From: Joseph Augusta To: glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Who am I? Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:11:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.31140.0> Precedence: bulk Talk about defining yourself as an artist, craftsman, beginner etc. and working with stained glass as either an art or craft or hobby points to the deeper issue of knowing who you are as a distinct, entirely unique, individual and being comfortable with that discovery. Individuals who are fortunate enough to have learned to savor who they are become the lucky ones--and succeed in whatever endeavor they choose--despite what anyone else may think! This is where you want to be--all the rest follows. Best wishes, Joseph ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 05:32:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 04:22:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: capecod.net!jaugusta From: Joseph Augusta To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Tech tip? Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:19:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.31924.0> References: <<37D9BFBE.8E8F0F9A@ix.netcom.com>> Precedence: bulk Suzanne Gunn wrote: > Sounds like a classroom assignment. Does it matter what the black is > made of? > > The black can be anything--recently working with tinted hydrocal white > however, so I know my way around that material pretty well. If it matters, I'm not a student. Joseph > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 05:40:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 04:26:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: capecod.net!jaugusta From: Joseph Augusta To: glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Tech tip help-- Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:22:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.32230.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks for all your help! Now if I can find someone to do the work for me while I watch the tennis finals this weekend.....:-) Go Serena! Best wishes, Joseph ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 08:25:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:54:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Artists or not? Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:53:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.65351.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Modiano, Victor" >The artist may have the "VISION" but who is it that gives that vision life. Often overcoming problems and obstacles the artists never thinks about. (That is not a criticism of Christie. We met briefly at Glass Visions and= that was it. Not a good basis for professional criticism.)< Gee, thanks for the caviat. Glad to know I'm not getting dissed here. Vic - it was good to meet you at the Glass Visions thing, but I must beg off on that whole weekend since I was running the IGGA booth and setting up IGGA reviews of new products & publications, etc. BTW, whatever happened to somebody's suggestions about the ?weekly? critique session? I'm perfectly willing to put up one of my "Visions" for criticism, as long as it's of the constructive type. As to me & Sparks....we are both artisans. I also happen to be the owner/artist of my stained glass business. And for the record, I have a Bach. of Music Education degree, with a couple of basic college-level courses in art. My stained glass training has strictly been one class from the local stained glass retail store, and then the rest self-taught. Much learning from bungi and IGGA, as well as some experimentation on my own. I also occassionally take private art lessons from a professional painter (oils) associated with the Philadelphia Museum of Art. This helps with my focus and drawing skills. Christie Wood/Art Glass Ensembles 405 E. Walnut St. Rear North Wales, PA 19454 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 08:33:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:19:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "bungi group" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: artist or not Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:12:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.71246.0> Precedence: bulk On that same lines, A person who knows how to play chopsticks on a piano is not a pianist. A person who knows how to add numbers is not a mathematician. It is the formal education that makes them a pianist and a mathematician. Whether they can play wonderfully or solve problems better than someone who hasn't had a formal education doesn't matter. They have studied the technical and historical information needed to accomplish what makes them an artist in their field. It is not a title that defines what you are. It is what you bring to the table of life. And hopefully that is more than what can be learned . my best, pj (whose formally education in art is in ceramics and isn't called a ceramist.Thank goodness.) Although I don't know what all the hang up with title of "artist" is I do know that just because you can copy a pattern and cut glass it does not make you a stained glass artist. Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists Associate Member AIA -----Original Message----- From: Pawel Karaszkiewicz To: glass@bungi.com Date: Saturday, September 11, 1999 1:52 AM Subject: Re: artist or not >There are some mixed thoughs concerning last treads on artist and = >newbies =20 > >Anybody can be an artist if she/he has an creative approach to the work = >of any kind. Everybody knows cooks, tailors etc creating and inventing = >new things. They are artists in their proffession. >In stained glass the situation is similar: someone, putting together = >pieces of glass according to pattern is just a stained glass maker - a = >skilfull craftsmen. In the history of stained glass this divison was = >always clear (cf. Cennino Cennini's book about painting from early = >Renessaince period). Such a craftsman - artisan is a very important = >member of any stained glass studio but an artist can learn stained glass = >making and non creative craftsmen cannot learn arts - this is maybe the = >main diffrence. Creative approach always looks for new solutions, = >methods, creation. Craftsman - like one sticks to familiar, skilfully = >developed techniques. =20 >So, everybody must decide himself wheather he/she is an artist or = >artisan or craftsman. >The succes or lack of it will show, if the choice was right or not. And = >of course it is better to be a good craftsmen that poor artist.=20 > >Newbies: I deal with them for years since I lecture at the Academy of = >Fine Arts. Funny enough I teach conservation science to students of = >Conservation Dept (stained glass conservation is my second profession). = >This is normal that at the very beginnig they are eager to do something = >special, interesting, new. It is the curiosity - a very important = >feature of any creative person. But, after some failures, another = >approach should develope: patient, hard work. If it not appears - such a = >person either gives up or he/she will be always a poor hobbyist. > >The questions newbies ask are very basic and sometimes sound naive or = >even stupid. But, we proffesionals are also a craftsmen using our own = >tips we are familiar with and accustomed to. Simple basic questions = >force us to come back to roots of our profession and, sometimes,. they = >show new posiibilities and a new approach to methods which we apply = >mechanically. > >Pawel (at 4.AM) >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 08:38:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:56:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Artists or not? Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:53:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.65353.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Modiano, Victor" >Sparks, you may not be able to create your own pattern but what you do with other peoples patterns is creative. The glass that you pick, the section = of it that you use for each piece, even the way you solder it all together shows your creativity.< Now look....Just to set the record straight on this....When Sparks is working for me I do all the designing and glass selection. And we both work on the entire project's construction from cutting through to packing and sweeping the floor. Everyone can express their own creativity in their own fashion. But the Art Glass Ensembles product line is MINE. When Sparks designs and executes her own designs, then they are HERS. Christie Wood/Art Glass Ensembles 405 E. Walnut St. Rear North Wales, PA 19454 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 10:21:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:47:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: artist or not Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:46:14 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.24614.0> Precedence: bulk >>It is the formal education that makes them a pianist and a mathematician. Whether they can play wonderfully or solve problems better than someone who hasn't had a formal education doesn't matter. They have studied the technical and historical information needed to accomplish what makes them an artist in their field.<< IMO, this will only be true when a formal licence is necessary to create art. Bob in SOCAL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 10:32:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:48:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Fw: Unfair question? Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:47:06 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.2476.0> Precedence: bulk >>>Gee Dani, I have been on this list for awhile and I still took Mike >seriously. :>) I think he deserves some credit. ;>) After all, he is >definately not afraid to try new things. >Diane Manchester<< > >And may I add, new things that are a joy to many others. > >All he needs to do is to SELL and make lots of money and we will consider >him an artist in his lifetime. Otherwise we may have to wait for him to be >"discovered" at some future date. > >I have met a few people with real artistic ability as measured by their >ability to draw in a creative way. Most of these people are otherwise not >suitable for the artistic environment of a four year art school. None of >them could expect to be hired and teach art. Artistic ability and anything >formal do not seem to go together, at least easily. > >If Mike comes up with a patron he will be enabled to quit his day job and >really go to work. We might just call him an artist then. Perhaps we could >advance him to the rank of inventor now. > >Bob in SOCAL (an artisan at best) > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 10:50:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:52:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: enterprise.net!robertcbullock From: "Robert. C. Bullock." To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Paint Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:49:51 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.184951.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BEFC7E.0C749B80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Elisebeth wrote; 'Yesterday we had a look in a couple of churches in KC with (one at = least signed) Mayer glass from the Munich Studio in Germany and the other one reputedly also from Mayer / Munich Studio. Both of the locations displayed the same symptoms; The black tracery painting is seriously flaking and peeling off.The matt painting appeared to wear better, but higher up in the panels there were some signs of sad looking bald patches. When I say flaking and peeling off, I literally mean just that. You could scrape it off with your finger nails.' Probably caused by inconsistency in the firing process - mostly = underfiring. Also borax may have been used in the paint medium or too = much adhesive (gum arabic or treacle) which makes the paint 'fry'. Condensation may have accelerated the deterioration - the underfired = paint having a coarser surface retains more moisture. Regards, Robert. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BEFC7E.0C749B80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Elisebeth wrote;
 
'Yesterday we had a look in a couple of churches in = KC with=20 (one at least
signed) Mayer glass from the Munich Studio in Germany = and the=20 other one
reputedly also from Mayer / Munich Studio. Both of the=20 locations
displayed the same symptoms;
The black tracery painting = is=20 seriously flaking and peeling off.The matt
painting appeared to wear = better,=20 but higher up in the panels there were
some signs of sad looking bald = patches. When I say flaking and peeling
off, I literally mean just = that. You=20 could scrape it off with your
finger nails.'
 
Probably caused by inconsistency in the firing = process -=20 mostly underfiring. Also borax may have been used in the paint medium or = too=20 much adhesive (gum arabic or treacle) which makes the paint = 'fry'.
Condensation may have accelerated the deterioration = - the=20 underfired paint having a coarser surface retains more = moisture.
 
Regards,
Robert.
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BEFC7E.0C749B80-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 11:59:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:17:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:ARTIZ01@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: cleaning Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:11:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.101140.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:ARTIZ01@aol.com >But oh it really takes long to clean one window.< It takes us about 45 minutes each side to cement and clean one largish window... of course, we never insulate or sandwich a cemented panel - that's begging for a mess and headaches down the road. = Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 12:11:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:17:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Christie A. Wood" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Artists or not? Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:11:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.101148.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Christie A. Wood" >I also occassionally take private art lessons from a professional painter (oils) associated with the Philadelphia Museum of Art. This helps with my focus and drawing skills.< I rest my case.... it makes a difference, no? Best, Dani ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 12:21:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:28:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: bungi group Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: artist or not Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:27:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.102716.0> References: <<1999Sep11.71246.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk pj friend wrote: > > On that same lines, > > A person who knows how to play chopsticks on a piano is not a pianist. > A person who knows how to add numbers is not a mathematician. > > It is the formal education that makes them a pianist and a mathematician. > Whether they can play wonderfully or solve problems better than someone who > hasn't had a formal education doesn't matter. They have studied the > technical and historical information needed to accomplish what makes them an > artist in their field. > > It is not a title that defines what you are. It is what you bring to the > table of life. And hopefully that is more than what can be learned . > > my best, > pj (whose formally education in art is in ceramics and isn't called a > ceramist.Thank goodness.) > > Although I don't know what all the hang up with title of "artist" is I do > know that > just because you can copy a pattern and cut glass it does not make you a > stained glass artist. > > Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. > www.waterw.com/~artglass > Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America > Member International Guild of Glass Artists > Associate Member AIA > -----Original Message----- > From: Pawel Karaszkiewicz > To: glass@bungi.com > Date: Saturday, September 11, 1999 1:52 AM > Subject: Re: artist or not > > >There are some mixed thoughs concerning last treads on artist and = > >newbies =20 > > > >Anybody can be an artist if she/he has an creative approach to the work = > >of any kind. Everybody knows cooks, tailors etc creating and inventing = > >new things. They are artists in their proffession. > >In stained glass the situation is similar: someone, putting together = > >pieces of glass according to pattern is just a stained glass maker - a = > >skilfull craftsmen. In the history of stained glass this divison was = > >always clear (cf. Cennino Cennini's book about painting from early = > >Renessaince period). Such a craftsman - artisan is a very important = > >member of any stained glass studio but an artist can learn stained glass = > >making and non creative craftsmen cannot learn arts - this is maybe the = > >main diffrence. Creative approach always looks for new solutions, = > >methods, creation. Craftsman - like one sticks to familiar, skilfully = > >developed techniques. =20 > >So, everybody must decide himself wheather he/she is an artist or = > >artisan or craftsman. > >The succes or lack of it will show, if the choice was right or not. And = > >of course it is better to be a good craftsmen that poor artist.=20 > > > >Newbies: I deal with them for years since I lecture at the Academy of = > >Fine Arts. Funny enough I teach conservation science to students of = > >Conservation Dept (stained glass conservation is my second profession). = > >This is normal that at the very beginnig they are eager to do something = > >special, interesting, new. It is the curiosity - a very important = > >feature of any creative person. But, after some failures, another = > >approach should develope: patient, hard work. If it not appears - such a = > >person either gives up or he/she will be always a poor hobbyist. > > > >The questions newbies ask are very basic and sometimes sound naive or = > >even stupid. But, we proffesionals are also a craftsmen using our own = > >tips we are familiar with and accustomed to. Simple basic questions = > >force us to come back to roots of our profession and, sometimes,. they = > >show new posiibilities and a new approach to methods which we apply = > >mechanically. > > > >Pawel (at 4.AM) > >---- i have to disagree, art training does'nt make you any more of an artist. all the dead painters, they were artist, some were self taught. piano players, the dead one's mainly, are considered masters, but many of them weren't formaly trained. like which one was it who wrote the symphony when he was like 6 or 9? ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 12:31:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:29:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Robert. C. Bullock." Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Paint Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:28:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.102853.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Robert. C. Bullock." >Probably caused by inconsistency in the firing process - mostly =3D underfiring. Also borax may have been used in the paint medium or too =3D= much adhesive (gum arabic or treacle) which makes the paint 'fry'. Condensation may have accelerated the deterioration - the underfired =3D paint having a coarser surface retains more moisture. < My immediate reaction would be the same.... except we are talking about the Franz Mayer company and I would think they would have been able to discern that pretty readily.... and I would think their world reputation would have been guarded a bit more closely. I mean, I would hate for my studio to have the reputation of shipping out shoddy work to a client half way around the world! Perhaps we could have Julie Sloan makes some comments about possibilites... Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 12:35:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:30:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Bob Duchesneau" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Fw: Unfair question? Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:28:50 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.102850.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Bob Duchesneau" > >All he needs to do is to SELL and make lots of money and we will conside= r >him an artist in his lifetime. Otherwise we may have to wait for him to = be >"discovered" at some future date. >< My guess is he could sell and makes lots of money.... if he ever develops the courage to hang his shingle out. That's what it takes to be a successful working artist, = which is surely part of MY equation. To make a lovely living doing what I love and what I do best... making art. This is how I want to spend every day of my life until I die. Once I figured it out and made the decision, it all just fell into place. = Artistic ability and anything >formal do not seem to go together, at least easily. > I know a heck of a lot of full-time practicing artists in various media who are formally trained who seem to have brought the two together quite naturally and gracefully.... dancers, actors, painters, glass artists, musicians, etc. It's interesting to me that many of them (and most of them my age 40's - 50's) also find themselves again in the formal arena - they are now teaching their art or craft themselves... passing the baton, as it were. Helping build the foundations.... and no less uncomfortable on = the other side of the lectern than when they were students (some of us went to school together). So that's my experience for what it's worth, which is probably not much to a good many people! Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 12:43:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:06:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: foxinternet.net!lin From: "lin" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: traveling Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:07:19 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.5719.0> References: <<1999Sep11.2476.0>> Precedence: bulk hello all! i am leaving for vacation in a couple of week.... going to the Costa del Sol (Spain), Morocco, and the Frankfurt (Germany) area. I'd love any suggestions as to what i need to see while in any of those areas...... glass manufacturers(?!?!), particularly nice windows, or really anything else (although if non-glass reply to me offlist)...... TIA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 13:05:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:15:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: enterprise.net!robertcbullock From: "Robert. C. Bullock." To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Paint Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:13:31 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.211331.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BEFC92.1EA4E3A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck - etc! Regards, Robert. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BEFC92.1EA4E3A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If it looks like a duck and quacks = like a duck -=20 etc!
 
Regards,
Robert.
------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BEFC92.1EA4E3A0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 13:26:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:33:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne Gunn To: Bob Duchesneau , glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: artist or not Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:35:00 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.9350.0> References: <<1999Sep11.24614.0>> Precedence: bulk > >>It is the formal education that makes them a pianist and a mathematician. > Whether they can play wonderfully or solve problems better than someone who > hasn't had a formal education doesn't matter. They have studied the > technical and historical information needed to accomplish what makes them an > artist in their field.<< > I have a Bachelor of Science degree, and Im sure not a scientist. -- Suzanne ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Choosing is only difficult for those with imagination ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 15:02:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:39:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Dani Greer Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Paint Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:38:32 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.133832.0> Precedence: bulk Regarding the flaking paint on the Franz Mayer windows - is it possible = that there had been a repair over the years that utilized cold color instead of fired paints? Can you get close enough to the damage to really tell what kind of paint was used? Just some more thoughts.... Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 15:31:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:40:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Suzanne Gunn Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: artist or not Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:38:38 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.133838.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Suzanne Gunn >I have a Bachelor of Science degree, and Im sure not a scientist.< And I'll bet you're not a bachelor either!! Now don't get me started on BS degrees! ;-D Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 15:35:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:40:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "lin" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: traveling Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:38:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.133836.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "lin" >and the Frankfurt (Germany) area. I< Oh, lucky you.... too bad you are not nearer to Munich. You could visit the Franz Mayer Studios and just north in Augsburg, you can see the oldest intact painted stained glass in existence at the = Augsburg Dom. But, not to worry, everywhere you turn in Germany, you will see stained glass worth seeing!! I am so jealous! Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 15:47:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:41:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Mike Savad Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: artist or not Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:38:27 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.133827.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Mike Savad >piano players, the dead one's mainly, are considered masters, but many of them weren't formaly trained. like which one was it who wrote the symphony when he was like 6 or 9?< Huh? Have you checked a history book lately??? Good grief. Where do you get this stuff? Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 15:48:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:56:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "rrk" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: artist or not Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:50:38 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.135038.0> Precedence: bulk I was speaking historically. I was speaking of things as they are today = in the real world. Sorry you don't get it. And its not my theory. Just reality. pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists Associate Member AIA -----Original Message----- From: rrk To: pj friend Cc: bungi group Date: Saturday, September 11, 1999 5:45 PM Subject: Re: artist or not > > >pj friend wrote: >> >> On that same lines, >> >> A person who knows how to play chopsticks on a piano is not a pianist. >> A person who knows how to add numbers is not a mathematician. >> >> It is the formal education that makes them a pianist and a mathematici= an. >> Whether they can play wonderfully or solve problems better than someon= e who >> hasn't had a formal education doesn't matter. They have studied the >> technical and historical information needed to accomplish what makes t= hem an >> artist in their field. >> >> It is not a title that defines what you are. It is what you bring to = the >> table of life. And hopefully that is more than what can be learned . > > >Uh huh ... right ... sure. >OK ... you've stated your theory. >Lets fill it in with some data >and see if it fits the real world >and not just the museum world >of art critics [who are NOT >creators of anything and about >as useful in the art world >as the dead yeast in beer]. > >Theory guides, experiment decides. > >Where would Leonardo da Vinci >fit in to this theory by the way? >As I recall, he had no formal education >of ANY type other than just reading >and writing. About to the level of >what we'd call 4th grade today (1999). > >At what point does formal education >enable a naturally talented >artistically inclined person >to hang the label "artist" on themselves? >4th grade? >High school diploma? >4 year Bachelor degree? >Master's level? >Doctoral level? > >Does this theory only apply >to artists of the >second half of the 20th century? > >How about the artists of the >first half of the 20th century? > >How about the 19th century? > >How about the 15th century >before the invention of schools >as we have them today? > >Just asking questions in the spirit >of helping you to refine your theory. >Your answer, assuming you do, >should be interesting. > >-- >HAVE FUN .......... ez > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 17:09:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:23:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: comox.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@comox.island.net (synergyglass) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: test Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:21:32 -0700 Message-ID: <199909112321.QAA08169@mimas.island.net> Precedence: bulk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 18:10:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:21:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: artists Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:57:24 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.125724.0> Organization: SBWSA Precedence: bulk I believe Mike was possibly referring to Mozart who wrote his first minuet at age 6, his first symphony before his was 9 and started touring at age 15. He was either a musical genius or an idiot savant, but the amount of works he composed in his short lifetime was amazing. I don't believe he had any formal training other than what his father gave him, who recognized his son's genius. Carol T ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 19:21:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:40:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: wolf.net!dimitrovich From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" To: Subject: Re: Artist or Not - Let Webster Decide! Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:13:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.171344.0> Precedence: bulk My 2 Cents: According to Webster's Dictionary... ARTIST: 1. a. one who professes and practices an art in which conception and execution are governed by imagination and taste. 1. b. person skilled in one of the fine arts. ARTISAN: 1. one trained to manual dexterity or skill in a trade CRAFTSMAN: 1. a workman who practices a trade or handicraft - "artisan" (Webster's synonym, not mine) 2. a workman in any skilled occupation Therefore, with my background in English and Language Studies, I am inclined to agree with those who feel that an artist is one who, through utilization of the imagination, applies the learned skills and creative slant to the art form - not merely applying the mechanics of the skills to the work. Read ARTIST 1.a. This should help decide this issue. However, if one takes a stained glass pattern and applies their imagination and taste to the selection of glass, the choice of came or foil, to frame or not to frame, etc., does this not also put an artistic slant to the work? While I don't think I would call it the work of an artist in this case, I would say that it takes some artistic talent to be able to visualize the final piece and make it a successful reality. To repetitively copy another person's work in the same media, colors, etc. (such as with furniture and many other products) is basically the work of a craftsman. The original designer is the artist. Artists are used to design the work but it takes skilled artisans or craftsmen (craftspersons?) to faithfully execute copies of the work. Thanks for listening. Pamela ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 19:35:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:29:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!mschatee From: mschatee@juno.com To: Glass@bungi.com Subject: Pawel's Explanation Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:25:05 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep12.1255.0> Precedence: bulk I sat here reading the different interpretations of the previous statement about " People who copy designs are not artists......." I think Pawel hit the nail on the head when he described the differences between the artist, the craftsmen and the artisan. I myself am definitely what he called a stained glass maker, a crafts women so to speak. And I am quite proud of it. We all have to start somewhere and strive to reach further heights. Someday I will be an Artisan, I believe that I can reach that goal. Will I ever be an artist? I doubt it....growing up I was very well rounded, I played sports, I was in the band, I was in the honors classes. But I was never the fastest, never the best musician, or the smartest in the class and it didn't matter because I am well rounded can do a lot and have talents in many areas. Art was never one of them even though I came from an Artistic family (my grandmother is 85 and still paints). I am very happy making stained glass panels from a pattern, why do I need to reinvent the wheel when there are so many other talented artists out there. I could copy patterns for a lifetime and never run out of beautiful designs. Will I ever be a professional stained glass artist? No, but I love it and it is my passion. I am a hobbyist tried and true and love it just the way it is. Pawel thank you for explaining it so well the different levels. There is quite a diverse group of stained glass enthusiasts out there, whatever we call ourselves. Please everyone continue to share your experiences, your wealth of knowledge and your talent. We all learn from each other. Thanks Bungians, back to lurking for me. Caren ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 21:01:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:34:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: Dani Greer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: artist or not Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:33:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.193359.0> References: <<199909111738_MC2-8483-80A0@compuserve.com>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Dani Greer wrote: > > Message text written by Mike Savad > >piano > players, the dead one's mainly, are considered masters, but many of them > weren't formaly trained. like which one was it who wrote the symphony > when he was like 6 or 9?< > > Huh? Have you checked a history book lately??? > Good grief. Where do you get this stuff? > > Dani Greer > Greer Gallery & Studios i never sai di was a historian. but i distictly remember one of the "great" piano musicians, wrote a song at a very young age... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 21:21:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:36:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: Carol Tombro Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: artists Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:35:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.193554.0> References: <<1999Sep11.125724.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Carol Tombro wrote: > > I believe Mike was possibly referring to Mozart who wrote his first > minuet at age 6, his first symphony before his was 9 and started touring > at age 15. He was either a musical genius or an idiot savant, but the > amount of works he composed in his short lifetime was amazing. I don't > believe he had any formal training other than what his father gave him, > who recognized his son's genius. > > Carol T > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass yeah that's the guy.. i personally can't stand classical music, but that's one guy i can actually remember, not by name though... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 21:31:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:13:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: thesilvers.com!eric From: "Eric M Silver" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Spectrum Glass and Fusion Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:01:38 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.14138.0> Precedence: bulk We are quite new to Glass fusion and we just bought our kiln. Very happy with. Anyway I am now starting to accumulate 90 COE glass for our projects but I also know that Spectrum is having a line of glass at 96 COE. Has anyone on the list used the Spectrum glass and if so what do I need to watch for. I have read that Spectrum says 85% of its glass is called compatible but what has been the reality of this statement to the common man. Eric Silver Kirkland, WA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 22:34:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:24:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!cecnralph From: Cecily and Ralph Wood To: Dani Greer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Subject: Re: Artists or not: Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 01:31:52 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.213152.0> References: <<199909102233_MC2-8474-6654@compuserve.com>> Organization: Grendel Studios Precedence: bulk We are rapidly descending into the pits of semantics from whence we may never emerge. That doesn't stop me from this diatribe. Be thankful that I didn't send my last two rants. Part of our problem stems from the fact that the business/craft/art of stained glass seems to have fewer terms to designate specialties. In music we have terms like songwriter, composer, librettist, arranger, conductor, performer, accompanist, soloist - all of whom are considered real musicians. The art/craft etc. of blown glass also seems to have many more terms for the various functions/roles. Another part of our problem is that only in the last two, three hundred years has even such a concept as "practical arts" or "decorative arts" been invented and this category was inferior to that of "fine art". Until then, glass working of any sort, along with goldsmithing, silversmithing, engineering and architecture (masonry) were all regarded as a practical business. The medieval guilds and the apprentice systems were to insure quality work/craftsmanship, not high art. If one were lucky the person you were apprenticed to had a natural feeling for art and design. We now look back on much art and can only attribute it to the master of this workshop or that, but in many instances we do not know who the designer was. The opening of the Victoria and Albert Museum was one of the first formal recognitions that these objects were also art. The notion of fine arts also is fairly recent invention. After all, most universities did not teach any art other than literature until several hundred years ago. Academic music education at the university/college level is only about 150 years old here in the U.S. and modeled on the German example which wasn't much older than that. The formation of the royal academies of this and that, around the same time, were supposed to uphold the high ideals of fine art - and we all know how many of the really great painters in the last several hundred years were ostracized for years, if not for life, for not coloring within the lines, so to speak. Frank Lloyd Wright is arguably the greatest American architect and unarguably the greatest of this century, at least. He apprenticed as a draftsman, and never had a degree in architecture - or engineering (sometimes that last shows, although he was a "natural"). Was he an architect. Certainly. Was he an artist? Yes, and not just for his buildings, but for the drawings themselves, and for the design of the practical arts involved with the building's design (including designing the clothes he made his first wife wear in the Forest Park house he had designed and built). My father graduated from the University of Michigan School of Architecture, and worked as an industrial designer. He designed several homes. Was he an architect? Not really, although I literally teethed on architecture books and magazines. Was he an artist? Did drawing of airplanes, munitions, and refrigerators make him an artist? More of an engineer than artist. But was he an artist? Yes. My mother, sisters and I all display wonderful drawings, sketches, etchings, woodcuts, pastels, water colors, oils and acrylics in our homes. Was he a famous artist? Obviously not. Was he a great artist? No, a minor one, but an artist nevertheless. I was a college librarian in the late sixties, and we were to get a new library. I walked into the director's office to find her puzzling over the just approved drawings - upside down. So I turned them around and we started exploring them. What I discovered was that there was no janitors' closet in the building - anywhere. Now at least once a semester someone upchucks all over. Were we to have to run to the next building to get bucket , water, soap and mop etc.? There was a highly touted dumb waiter which would hold exactly one library cart. The workrooms were on the lowest level of this 8 floor building. The first two floors were normal academic ones, but the top levels were what are known as "stacks". These cram two floors into what is the normal height for one, and have tiny stairs that are protected by fire doors, and each flight has a landing halfway up and then the next set of steps doubles back on the first. In the first years of the use of the building, the upper floors were to be used as faculty offices, and eventually all floors would be used for books etc.. There was no elevator. We were supposed to prepare the books etc. on the bottom floor, push the cart onto the dumb waiter, send it to the proper floor, and then we were supposed to run up some 8 flights of stairs so we could get the bloody cart off the dumb waiter and shelve things? We finally were forced to take the plans to the state health department so they would refuse to grant a building permit. We did that by showing that if a faculty member who'd huffed up 8 flights to his office had a heart attack up there, it was impossible to get a gurney or even a litter up to the person, let alone carry him down in anything other than a fireman's carry. Was the designer an architect? Unfortunately, according to his university and the state licensing commission, yes. Was he a great anything? Yes - an idiot. Now, I come from a long line of scholars and academicians, with 4 generations of teachers, and I value education highly, both my husband and I worked for school systems (I still do), and he is now teaching in college. My modus operandi is to get all the literature I can and take as many courses as I can (afford). If I were going to hire an architect, I would want one with formal training. But that doesn't mean that in some professions there are no other paths to your objective. I got into computing with a library degree - a common back door. And I don't want to take a semester of this that or the other because I already know three quarters of it. What I need is the one day to one week intensive course not offered by your normal academic institution, or if offered so expensive I cannot afford it. And on a final note, most universities and a great many colleges offer music, theatre, and art majors for bachelor degrees, and for masters and doctorates. Yet the majority of national and world class performers, or creators of art come from a very small number of institutions, many with great emphasis on performance/production - places like Peabody or Curtis or Parsons where the emphasis is on the doing. And in almost any of the faculties of any school that really produces doers, they have to "lower" their academic standards (accept a masters degree rather than a doctorate, for instance - and in some cases no degree at all) to get an effective faculty. And what happens to the rest of those who have music or art degrees and work in their fields? They are historians, musicologists, technologists and theorists. They are the staffs of orchestras and museums. They are art restorers. They are necessary, and their education is necessary for the roles they play. But they are not artists or musicians. Dani Greer wrote: > Message text written by Cecily and Ralph Wood > >is he not a musician?< > > No, but he is not a songwriter. Just as one can > be a very good craftsman or artisan, and not > necessarily an artist. Correct terminology and > understanding of the definitions just creates > clear communication and understanding. > > Best regards, > > Dani Greer -- ********************************************************************* * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) ********************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 23:03:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:54:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summitstudio From: Mike Peck To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Day 1. Workshop Kansas City Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 00:56:16 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.195616.0> References: <<1999Sep11.133838.0>> Organization: Summit Stained Glass (http://www.summitstudio.com) Precedence: bulk Hi All, Well another bunch of people have survived their first day of NOT running for the grinders..... and.... NO.... Elisabeth did NOT go to the bathroom this time either! I am beginning to feel that USA and England are two countries, divided by the difference of leading technique (to paraphrase the original author). It's been very interesting for me. Sue and Bill from Bungi in Iowa arrived and joined the fun and have done very well. And, no Sue, I have decided not to tell on you.... Everybody is virtually ready for leading up tomorrow; Gene Roper has taken LOTS of pictures. However, under the guise of going to see the stained glass, Gene and Darlene Roper took us to The Station Casino later in the evening. Oh boy, that was wild! So was the stained glass. Did I fritter my money away?? Moi? Nope, played 5 dollars and came away with with that plus 7 dollars more. I am hoping that the photos I took of the stained glass in the Casino will turn out. Gotta run now, the valet is just about to bring around the limo to take me back..... ;-) Elisabeth ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 23:13:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:33:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!cecnralph From: Cecily and Ralph Wood To: Eric M Silver Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Subject: Re: Spectrum Glass and Fusion Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 01:41:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.21414.0> References: <<1999Sep11.14138.0>> Organization: Grendel Studios Precedence: bulk I just did a piece where I took a Spectrum opalescent grey - just one of their ordinary line, used frit and topped it with multi confetti - a Bullseye, or maybe Uraboros flake/streamer 90 coe - my notes are downstairs. Worked beautifully. We flash fired it around 1500º, if I recall correctly, rapidly took it back to about 1100, but let it anneal over night. I tested it in my friend's little Rapid Fire, and then did the real pieces in her larger kiln. These pieces were foiled and used in a large panel. Eric M Silver wrote: > We are quite new to Glass fusion and we just bought our kiln. Very happy > with. > > Anyway I am now starting to accumulate 90 COE glass for our projects but I > also know that Spectrum is having a line of glass at 96 COE. > > Has anyone on the list used the Spectrum glass and if so what do I need to > watch for. > > I have read that Spectrum says 85% of its glass is called compatible but > what has been the reality of this statement to the common man. > > Eric Silver > Kirkland, WA > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- ********************************************************************* * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) ********************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 23:23:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:33:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summitstudio From: Mike Peck To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: message/rfc822 Subject: Re: Paint] Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 00:35:36 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.193536.0> Organization: Summit Stained Glass (http://www.summitstudio.com) Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <37DB3858.267F@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 00:21:28 -0500 From: Mike Peck Reply-To: summitstudio@worldnet.att.net Organization: Summit Stained Glass (http://www.summitstudio.com) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-WorldNet (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dani Greer CC: glass@bungi, com, toby@northlights.co.uk Subject: Re: Paint References: <1999Sep11.133832.0> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Dani et al, Mike Peck has re-subscribed again to Bungi, so I have got half a thread today. Yep, got close enough to the paint. First of all, IF there had been a "cold-colour repair", that would mean that the "hot-colour" would have flaked off even earlier; Secondly, as I mentioned, it seem to affect the black tracery first and worst. Thirdly, the paint flaked off and disintegrated into powder, rather than "peeled" off. One of the 2 windows I saw with my own eyes was signed. Hence no doubt. Which is what makes it so incredibly sad. The gum arabic theory: Interesting, but would that not have been instantly evident, once the glass came out of the kiln??? Another theory I have heard, is that American glass of the time was used, painted and fired in Germany and that the European paints just were not totally compatible with the (then) American glass.... Ideas please? Next : Anyone has any ideas how to arrest the process? Spray-fixatives? Plastisizers?? My Very Best Elisabeth Dani Greer wrote: > > Regarding the flaking paint on the > Franz Mayer windows - is it possible = > > that there had been a repair over the > years that utilized cold color instead of > fired paints? Can you get close enough > to the damage to really tell what kind of > paint was used? Just some more thoughts.... > > Best regards, > > Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 11 23:36:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:12:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: thesilvers.com!eric From: "Eric M Silver" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Spectrum Glass and Fusion Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:59:37 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep11.155937.0> References: <<37DB3CD3.57ABE2B8@home.com>> Precedence: bulk That's wild! If I understand you took glass that was rated at 96 (Spectrum) and mixed it with 90 COE rated pieces and you got no cracks or stress failure. Maybe if you are using frit and streamer these pieces are so small and "already" fractured that the stree is not there? Any tought on that. Also when you say flash fires at 1500º how did it took for you your kiln to reach this temperature. I am progressing at about 280 degrees per hour until I reach the 1450 degrees point. I am curious to find out how fast/slow other fusers are reaching the temperature. Just curious Eric -----Original Message----- From: Cecily and Ralph Wood [mailto:cecnralph@home.com] Sent: Saturday, September 11, 1999 10:41 PM To: Eric M Silver Cc: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Spectrum Glass and Fusion I just did a piece where I took a Spectrum opalescent grey - just one of their ordinary line, used frit and topped it with multi confetti - a Bullseye, or maybe Uraboros flake/streamer 90 coe - my notes are downstairs. Worked beautifully. We flash fired it around 1500º, if I recall correctly, rapidly took it back to about 1100, but let it anneal over night. I tested it in my friend's little Rapid Fire, and then did the real pieces in her larger kiln. These pieces were foiled and used in a large panel. Eric M Silver wrote: > We are quite new to Glass fusion and we just bought our kiln. Very happy > with. > > Anyway I am now starting to accumulate 90 COE glass for our projects but I > also know that Spectrum is having a line of glass at 96 COE. > > Has anyone on the list used the Spectrum glass and if so what do I need to > watch for. > > I have read that Spectrum says 85% of its glass is called compatible but > what has been the reality of this statement to the common man. > > Eric Silver > Kirkland, WA > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- ********************************************************************* * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) ********************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 01:37:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 01:00:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Eric M Silver Subject: Re: Spectrum Glass and Fusion Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 08:41:56 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Sep12.94156.0> References: <<1999Sep11.14138.0@?>> Precedence: bulk Eric, In my experience Spectrum is easy to fuse with certain limitations. In message <1999Sep11.14138.0@?>, Eric M Silver writes .cut..... > >Anyway I am now starting to accumulate 90 COE glass for our projects but I >also know that Spectrum is having a line of glass at 96 COE. > >Has anyone on the list used the Spectrum glass and if so what do I need to >watch for. > I have found that spectrum cathedrals fuse very well. The Baroque "hot" colours need care - they should spend almost no time soaking at high temperatures, or they devitrify. So above the plastic point the temp. should be taken up as fast as practical for the project (see the spectrum web site http://www.spectrumglass.com/index.html), then crash cooled to the top strain point. This may be applied to all spectrum colours, but is not necessary. What is necessary is to test all combinations of glass before starting the main project. Spectrum are producing a clear glass against which all their other glass can be tested (don't remember the code at the moment). However, many of the wispies and all of the opals (except red) devitrify. To use them, you must put a clear sheet over them, or fuse them upside down (although you then get kiln shelf markings). The Spectrum iridescence fires off at fusing temperatures, but not slumping temps. Use Bullseye or Uroboros if you want iridescent colours in fusing. >I have read that Spectrum says 85% of its glass is called compatible but >what has been the reality of this statement to the common man. > I'd say this is probably true. The question is which 85% and how consistently. This is why testing is always necessary. Mark the tested sheets and reserve them. Steve -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 03:19:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 02:42:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: the-beach.net!jansen1 From: "D&K JANSEN" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Pawel's Explanation Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 05:41:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep12.14140.0> References: <<1999Sep12.1255.0>> Precedence: bulk I DON'T OFTEN SAY MUCH HERE, BUT I HAVE 6 YEARS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF CINCINNATI SCHOOLOF DESIGN, ART, ARCHITECTURE AND PLANNING AND 6 YEARS EXPERIENCE TEACHING MIDDLE AND HIGH SCHOOL ART. I STILL HOLD ONE CONCEPTUAL BELIEF CLOSE TO THE HEART AND AM DRIVEN BY THE CONCEPT "CREATIVITY IS DEFINED BY ME AS PROBLEM SOLVING" AND I T IS ACTUALLY JUST THAT BASIC AND PURE! KATE ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, September 11, 1999 9:25 PM Subject: Pawel's Explanation > I sat here reading the different interpretations of the previous > statement about > " People who copy designs are not artists......." > > I think Pawel hit the nail on the head when he described the differences > between the > artist, the craftsmen and the artisan. I myself am definitely what he > called a stained glass maker, a crafts women so to speak. And I am quite > proud of it. We all have to start somewhere and strive to reach further > heights. Someday I will be an Artisan, I believe that I can reach that > goal. Will I ever be an artist? I doubt it....growing up I was very > well rounded, I played sports, I was in the band, I was in the honors > classes. But I was never the fastest, never the best musician, or the > smartest in the class and it didn't matter because I am well rounded can > do a lot and have talents in many areas. Art was never one of them even > though I came from an Artistic family (my grandmother is 85 and still > paints). I am very happy making stained glass panels from a pattern, why > do I need to reinvent the wheel when there are so many other talented > artists out there. I could copy patterns for a lifetime and never run > out of beautiful designs. Will I ever be a professional stained glass > artist? No, but I love it and it is my passion. I am a hobbyist tried > and true and love it just the way it is. > Pawel thank you for explaining it so well the different levels. There is > quite a diverse group of stained glass enthusiasts out there, whatever we > call ourselves. Please everyone continue to share your experiences, your > wealth of knowledge and your talent. We all learn from each other. > > Thanks Bungians, back to lurking for me. > > Caren > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Get the Internet just the way you want it. > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 04:54:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 04:13:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10 From: Barbara To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Pawel's Explanation Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 07:06:31 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990912070631.00701aac@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> References: <<1999Sep12.1255.0>> Precedence: bulk That's good... I like that. You can call me whatever you like; artist, craftsperson, lurker.... I will still do it that same way tomorrow.... except a little better because I learned something yesterday. Barbara At 05:41 AM 9/12/99 -0400, you wrote: >I DON'T OFTEN SAY MUCH HERE, BUT I HAVE 6 YEARS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF >CINCINNATI SCHOOLOF DESIGN, ART, ARCHITECTURE AND PLANNING AND 6 YEARS >EXPERIENCE TEACHING MIDDLE AND HIGH SCHOOL ART. I STILL HOLD ONE CONCEPTUAL >BELIEF CLOSE TO THE HEART AND AM DRIVEN BY THE CONCEPT "CREATIVITY IS >DEFINED BY ME AS PROBLEM SOLVING" >AND I T IS ACTUALLY JUST THAT BASIC AND PURE! >KATE >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Saturday, September 11, 1999 9:25 PM >Subject: Pawel's Explanation > > >> I sat here reading the different interpretations of the previous >> statement about >> " People who copy designs are not artists......." >> >> I think Pawel hit the nail on the head when he described the differences >> between the >> artist, the craftsmen and the artisan. I myself am definitely what he >> called a stained glass maker, a crafts women so to speak. And I am quite >> proud of it. We all have to start somewhere and strive to reach further >> heights. Someday I will be an Artisan, I believe that I can reach that >> goal. Will I ever be an artist? I doubt it....growing up I was very >> well rounded, I played sports, I was in the band, I was in the honors >> classes. But I was never the fastest, never the best musician, or the >> smartest in the class and it didn't matter because I am well rounded can >> do a lot and have talents in many areas. Art was never one of them even >> though I came from an Artistic family (my grandmother is 85 and still >> paints). I am very happy making stained glass panels from a pattern, why >> do I need to reinvent the wheel when there are so many other talented >> artists out there. I could copy patterns for a lifetime and never run >> out of beautiful designs. Will I ever be a professional stained glass >> artist? No, but I love it and it is my passion. I am a hobbyist tried >> and true and love it just the way it is. >> Pawel thank you for explaining it so well the different levels. There is >> quite a diverse group of stained glass enthusiasts out there, whatever we >> call ourselves. Please everyone continue to share your experiences, your >> wealth of knowledge and your talent. We all learn from each other. >> >> Thanks Bungians, back to lurking for me. >> >> Caren >> >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> Get the Internet just the way you want it. >> Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! >> Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. >> ---- >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >> > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 05:29:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 04:42:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!tifstyorig From: Diane W Manchester To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Artists or not: Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 07:37:24 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep12.03724.0> Precedence: bulk Wow Cec, long post but very enlightening, and which illustrates an experience I had about 10 years ago or so. Our local "art" museum was having a juried "art" show, not the kind with booths and sales, just one in which we submitted a piece of "art" to be judged and ribbons were rewarded to the best "art". I submitted a 3-d piece of stained glass that I had designed and made. I received a call the next day to come pick up my work because "stained glass was considered a craft, not art." They considered "art" to be painting, drawing and the like but not pottery or glass or other such "crafts". Needless to say I was flabergassed. So there you have it, your post, Cec, hits the nail on the head for me. Diane Manchester ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 06:02:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 05:41:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pd.jaring.my!shakabe From: "Shakeel Abedi" To: "bungi" , "Cecily and Ralph Wood" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Spectrum Glass and Fusion Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:27:04 +0800 Message-ID: <1999Sep12.4274.0> Precedence: bulk >I just did a piece where I took a Spectrum opalescent grey - just one of >their ordinary line, used frit and topped it with multi confetti - a >Bullseye, or maybe Uraboros flake/streamer 90 coe - my notes are downstairs. >Worked beautifully. We flash fired it around 1500=BA, if I recall correctly, >rapidly took it back to about 1100, but let it anneal over night. I tested >it in my friend's little Rapid Fire, and then did the real pieces in her >larger kiln. These pieces were foiled and used in a large panel. A Spectrum was taken and Bulleseye / Uroboros frit was fused to it. And it was successful. Am I missing something. Shakeel ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 07:54:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 07:40:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Artists or not: Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:38:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep12.63847.0> References: <<1999Sep12.03724.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Diane W Manchester wrote: > > Wow Cec, long post but very enlightening, and which illustrates an > experience I had about 10 years ago or so. Our local "art" museum was > having a juried "art" show, not the kind with booths and sales, just one > in which we submitted a piece of "art" to be judged and ribbons were > rewarded to the best "art". I submitted a 3-d piece of stained glass > that I had designed and made. I received a call the next day to come > pick up my work because "stained glass was considered a craft, not art." > They considered "art" to be painting, drawing and the like but not > pottery or glass or other such "crafts". Needless to say I was > flabergassed. So there you have it, your post, Cec, hits the nail on the > head for me. > > Diane Manchester > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i would personally start screaming personally. is a tiffany window considered art or craft? it seems this topic appears in one group of mine about every 2-3 months... so i've had some time to think about it. basically what confuses people most is the way one word is trying to describe many things. art, artist, artistic, craft, craftsman, etc - all different. ART can descibe anything that was original and made by you. it can be mass produced, but each one need to made by scratch. prints you see sold in the library aren't art, their embossed paper. the original one could be considered art. or art may just be a specialized skill that other' don't posess. or where something needs to be passed down from person to person. an ARTIST is someone who creates from with in, something from the heart and the soul. it does'nt have to be great for it to be art. being ARTISTIC is having the ability to add the "right touch" to something. putting a little bit of yourself in a project. even if it's stenciling a wall, you may have an artistic idea, that other's haven't tried yet. it's the other half of being creative, where creative maybe using a different material for an untried idea. CRAFT - this is very tricky. i think anything that can be used by someone else can be a craft. anything that can be or was used as a profession. something a person can open a store for. a shaker hat box can be a craft, a stained glass box a craft... and only because it wsa made by hand. other people can consider it art. and it may be an art to create certain things. a CRAFTSMAN is anyone who works with their hands and creates useful objects by hand. a cabinet maker could be considered a craftsman. a craftsman is the artist of this world. or a true craftsman is anyway, putting detail's in like fancy dovetails or inlaid area's, to give it a touch of elegance. but getting back to the show, i would ask to see who can enter and who can't. if they say only paintings and the like, they'll have to have it written. otherwise they need to leave the box in. does'nt matter if THEY think it's fine art or not. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 10:50:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:32:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Mike Savad Subject: Re: Artists or not: Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:08:17 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Sep12.19817.0> References: <<1999Sep12.63847.0@?>> Precedence: bulk An awful lot of strong opinions on this one. Strange we don't get much of such strong opinions on techniques, methods, quality, etc. as well :-) Steve -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 11:50:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:24:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Carol Tombro Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: artists Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:21:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep12.102139.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Carol Tombro >other than what his father gave him,< I would not be able to give anyone musical training since I don't have any to speak of myself. What is the father's background? Could it be that he gave his son formal training... grounding... a solid foundation? Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 12:07:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:28:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!OKYNURS From: OKYNURS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: mailing list Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:26:59 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep12.182659.0> Precedence: bulk please remove me from your mailing list. The mail is excessive and repetitive. Thank you. Have a nice day Tina ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 12:28:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:02:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Pamela Dimitrovich" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Artist or Not - Let Webster Decide! Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:00:52 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep12.11052.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Pamela Dimitrovich" >are governed by imagination and taste.< Oh-oh.... I know some contemporary artists who don't fit that definition very well!! LOL. I agree, dictionary input is always a good way to add clarity to an argument.... = Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 12:39:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:02:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Diane W Manchester Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Artists or not: Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:01:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep12.1117.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Diane W Manchester >I received a call the next day to come pick up my work because "stained glass was considered a craft, not art." = < It happens all the time.... we are some of the most well-know artists in the area, have owned galleries showing everyone's work in town, but the CS Arts Guild which is kind of a Sunday painters group (nothing wrong with that) won't show our stained glass, because it's craft, dontcha know? It's kind of a shame, too, = because some of the fine craft being made in this area is hands-down better than some of the so-called fine art! = Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 12:49:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:21:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "bungi group" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: mailing list Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:14:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep12.111455.0> Precedence: bulk I think that is the first time we have been called excessive and repetitive. And politely too. That is funny. pj -----Original Message----- From: OKYNURS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, September 12, 1999 3:17 PM Subject: mailing list >please remove me from your mailing list. The mail is excessive and >repetitive. Thank you. >Have a nice day >Tina >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 13:20:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:01:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "bungi group" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Artists or not: Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:54:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep12.115411.0> Precedence: bulk Well we found the way to get around that. We submit our water color transparencies. For some reason the artwork of stained glass is art but the finished work is not. Its craft. Puzzling to say the least. But at least it works. pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists Associate Member AIA -----Original Message----- From: Dani Greer To: Diane W Manchester Date: Sunday, September 12, 1999 3:52 PM Subject: Re: Artists or not: >Message text written by Diane W Manchester >>I received a call the next day to come >pick up my work because "stained glass was considered a craft, not art." = >< > >It happens all the time.... we are some of the most >well-know artists in the area, have owned galleries >showing everyone's work in town, but the CS Arts >Guild which is kind of a Sunday painters group (nothing >wrong with that) won't show our stained glass, because >it's craft, dontcha know? It's kind of a shame, too, = > >because some of the fine craft being made in this >area is hands-down better than some of the so-called >fine art! = > > >Best regards, > >Dani Greer >Greer Gallery & Studios >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 13:41:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:12:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: mailing list Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:09:44 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep12.6944.0> Precedence: bulk >>please remove me from your mailing list. The mail is excessive and repetitive. Thank you. Have a nice day Tina ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass<< You could help this situation if you followed the instructions at the bottom of every bungi post when subing/unsubing. Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 14:02:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:21:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!ACASADO From: ACASADO@webtv.net (Ali Casado) To: Eric@thesilvers.com, Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Spectrum Glass & Fusion Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:10:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep12.71050.0> Precedence: bulk Eric, I am also new to fusing, however, I believe there may have been a misunderstanding. I don't believe that 90 COE and 96COE were used together. I have been told from the beginning that the COE have to be only 1-2 point difference in order for the glass to be compatible. The same with the frit. When I fuse now (after finding out the hard way), in a side firing kiln, (which is what I have), to go up slowly (200' per hour) to (depending on how many layers of glass you are fusing) 1350' and hold it for 10 minutes. That has worked well for me, but like everyone has said, and they are right, you have to test and experiment. I slumped a piece of Spectrum 90 COE black baroque iridized glass and the iridescent quality stayed in tact, however it had a texture to the touch. But, it still looked beautiful. Ali =) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 14:15:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:31:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Eric M Silver" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Spectrum Glass and Fusion Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:29:45 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep12.62945.0> Precedence: bulk >>Has anyone on the list used the Spectrum glass and if so what do I need to watch for.<< Go to: http://www.spectrumglass.com and read the entire site. It has been updated and now contains the most extensive information I know of from a manufacturer on the fusing of their glass. If you have any questions please bring them back here. Steve Richard and I and perhaps others have fused a ton (actually more) of Spectrum glass. Bob in SOCAL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 14:27:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:38:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: gte.net!ddoran From: Dennis To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: mailing list Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:32:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep12.123257.0> Precedence: bulk Please remove me from mailing list. Thank you. Dennis ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 14:59:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:00:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Artists or not: Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:59:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep12.125915.0> References: <> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Steve Richard wrote: > > An awful lot of strong opinions on this one. > > Strange we don't get much of such strong opinions on techniques, > methods, quality, etc. as well > > :-) > > Steve > -- > Steve Richard > Verrier Art Glass Ltd > s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk that's mainly because there's always more then one way of doing things, and not just 1 way will work for something. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 15:24:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:47:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Eric M Silver" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Spectrum Glass and Fusion Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:42:38 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep12.64238.0> Precedence: bulk >>That's wild! If I understand you took glass that was rated at 96 (Spectrum) and mixed it with 90 COE rated pieces and you got no cracks or stress failure. Maybe if you are using frit and streamer these pieces are so small and "already" fractured that the stree is not there? Any thought on that.<< Fusing COEs of 90 and 96 is just asking for trouble, if not today then tomorrow. IMO, to sell such an item is a fraud on the public. I have had 1/8" square pieces of 90 on 96 crack the base glass in tests. Smaller non touching frit might work but why take the chance. I have learned to make my own frit and so am only a few hammer blows away from having cheap compatible frit of my choice. Making streamers is only a matter of having a propane torch and two pair of pliers. Confetti can also be made with a torch and a home made miniature blowpipe. Bob in SOCAL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 15:27:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:23:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Leadlines From: Leadlines@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: mailing list Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:22:16 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep12.212216.0> Precedence: bulk I think that is the first time we have been called excessive and repetitive. And politely too. That is funny. Ditto! PJ! I was ROTFL over that one! I had 88 bungi messages today and was laughing enough over all the opinions re: ARTIST/ARTISANS. I always considered myself an artist, even before glass, now I'm a glass artist. It will take a lot more than that for me to unsubscribe. Luanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 16:00:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:32:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Bob Duchesneau" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Spectrum Glass and Fusion Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:28:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep12.142855.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Bob Duchesneau" > Go to: http://www.spectrumglass.com and read the entire site. It has been= updated and now contains the most extensive information I know of from a manufacturer on the fusing of their glass. If you have any questions plea= se bring them back here. Steve Richard and I and perhaps others have fused a= ton (actually more) of Spectrum glass. < How about an article for Common Ground: Glass = detailing your experiences and giving us your opinions about fusing with Spectrum? We don't pay nothin' but you get a by-line ;-D ! Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 16:56:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:32:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: mailing list Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:28:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep12.152829.0> References: <<1999Sep12.212216.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Leadlines@aol.com wrote: > > I think that is the first time we have been called excessive and repetitive. > And politely too. > > That is funny. > > Ditto! PJ! I was ROTFL over that one! I had 88 bungi messages today and was > laughing enough over all the opinions re: ARTIST/ARTISANS. I always > considered myself an artist, even before glass, now I'm a glass artist. It > will take a lot more than that for me to unsubscribe. > Luanne > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it shows how touchy some pople can be. i'm assuming they thought there was going to be glass lectures everyday or something. who knows.... it's better they drop, then to complain about so called non sg articles, even thought it was related. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 17:26:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:03:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass From: "K See" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: NG-thought for the day Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:58:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep12.155839.0> Precedence: bulk With the recent thread of artist or not, I had to send this out. This is an interesting thought.... Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark. Professionals built the Titanic. KSee "It is not true that life is one damn thing after another..it's one damn thing over and over." Edna St. Vincent Millay (1892-1952) ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 18:27:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:56:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: enterprise.net!robertcbullock From: "Robert. C. Bullock." To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Mailing list. Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:52:34 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Sep13.15234.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01BEFD82.44343300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tina Wrote; 'Please remove me from your mailing list. The mail is = excessive and=20 repetitive. Thank you. Have a nice day Tina' Repetitive - how true! Funny - how sad! This thread of 'artist or not' has clearly demonstrated the vast and = deep seated insecurity of so many on the list, be they academically = trained artists or not. Get off the analysts couch of the list, get your heads out of your = navels, step outside yourselves and take a long, hard look. If you like = what you see then fine, if you don't, then do something about it.=20 Whatever you decide to do can only come from within yourselves. In this = life we have to be who we are. We have to discover ourselves and come to = terms with that truth - as hard as it may seem. If we don't like what we = see, then perhaps we have either to accept who and what we are or to = strive to change ourselves. We won't find the tools to change in the = diatribe currently being expounded on this list. Talk is cheap and some = on the list seem to like the sounds of their own voices. When it comes down to advising people to seek the advise of Webster's to = define themselves - well frankly, it's sad. Deep in our hearts we all know who and what we are at this moment in = time. Recognise that and believe that all of us has the ability to = become more than we are and stop looking for the affirmation of others = that we are, or are not, artists.=20 If we can't draw or design then buy some books, take a course - or look = at nature and the people who inhabit this world. Look and learn - don't = just discuss it ad nauseum until utter confusion reigns. If somebody tells you that stained glass is not an art form then kick = them in the arse (verbally or otherwise) and tell them what you believe. If somebody criticises your work technically then take it on board and = use that advise the next time you sit down to design or construct a = piece. If somebody criticises your work artistically, and that criticism is = true, you will know, if you are being truthful with yourself, if that = person is right or not, and learn from it. At the end of the day we decide on what we want, and need to do and get = out there and do it. If not, then don't do it. Life is short and hard but the sun comes up every morning - and there is = time to get out there, look at it, wonder at the joy of life and come to = terms with ourselves. Regards. Robert. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01BEFD82.44343300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Tina Wrote; 'Please remove me from your mailing list. The mail is = excessive=20 and
repetitive. Thank you.
Have a nice day
Tina'
 
 
Repetitive - how true!
Funny - how sad!
 
This thread of 'artist or not' has clearly demonstrated the vast = and deep=20 seated insecurity of so many on the list, be they academically trained = artists=20 or not.
 
Get off the analysts couch of the list, get your heads out of your = navels,=20 step outside yourselves and take a long, hard look. If you like what you = see=20 then fine, if you don't, then do something about it.
 
Whatever you decide to do can only come from within yourselves. In = this=20 life we have to be who we are. We have to discover ourselves and come to = terms=20 with that truth - as hard as it may seem. If we don't like what we see, = then=20 perhaps we have either to accept who and what we are or to strive to = change=20 ourselves. We won't find the tools to change in the diatribe currently = being=20 expounded on this list. Talk is cheap and some on the list seem to like = the=20 sounds of their own voices.
 
When it comes down to advising people to seek the advise of = Webster's to=20 define themselves - well frankly, it's sad.
 
Deep in our hearts we all know who and what we are at this moment = in time.=20 Recognise that and believe that all of us has the ability to become more = than we=20 are and stop looking for the affirmation of others that we are, or are = not,=20 artists.
 
If we can't draw or design then buy some books, take a course - or = look at=20 nature and the people who inhabit this world. Look and learn - don't = just=20 discuss it ad nauseum until utter confusion reigns.
 
If somebody tells you that stained glass is not an art form then = kick them=20 in the arse (verbally or otherwise) and tell them what you = believe.
 
If somebody criticises your work technically then take it on board = and use=20 that advise the next time you sit down to design or construct a = piece.
If somebody criticises your work artistically, and that criticism = is true,=20 you will know, if you are being truthful with yourself, if that person = is right=20 or not, and learn from it.
 
At the end of the day we decide on what we want, and need to do and = get out=20 there and do it. If not, then don't do it.
 
Life is short and hard but the sun comes up every morning - and = there is=20 time to get out there, look at it, wonder at the joy of life and come to = terms=20 with ourselves.
 
Regards.
Robert.
 
 

 
------=_NextPart_000_005A_01BEFD82.44343300-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 18:57:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:19:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!ACASADO From: ACASADO@webtv.net (Ali Casado) To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Mailing list Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:18:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep12.17182.0> Precedence: bulk Hi All, I am one of the newest bungians, and I must say (maybe I'm weird), but I really enjoy the camaraderie and all the different opinions that we all have as individuals. This makes for a well rounded group of people. That is how you grow and learn (in one area or the other). I for one, read every post, pertaining to me or not. I have learned many things that I could apply to my own work or general knowledge. Everyone has been very helpful and thats what its all about. People helping each other. You never know (I don't care how knowledgeable or experienced) when you are going to need someone else's help. Best regards, Ali =) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 19:30:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:02:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: iconn.net!tbyrnes From: Tim Byrnes To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Pattern of a Bluebird Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:02:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep12.18211.0> Precedence: bulk Hi, Can someone help me in finding a pattern of a Bluebird. Thank you in advance, Tim Byrnes ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 20:01:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:23:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: non-glass Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:21:13 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep12.122113.0> Organization: weaver51@teleport.com Precedence: bulk L'Shana Tova to my friends. Enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com Elaine and Howard best lamps on the "net": http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 20:36:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:19:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: banet.net!gmanning From: Goldpaws To: Howard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: non-glass Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:10:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep12.191012.0> References: <<1999Sep12.122113.0>> Precedence: bulk Howard, I love it you finally did an NG. What did your message mean? Goldpaws Howard wrote: > > L'Shana Tova to my friends. > > Enjoy, > H > weaver51@teleport.com > Elaine and Howard > best lamps on the "net": > http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 21:07:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:28:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summitstudio From: Mike Peck To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: artists Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:15:15 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep12.171515.0> References: <<1999Sep12.102139.0>> Organization: Summit Stained Glass (http://www.summitstudio.com) Precedence: bulk Hi All, Good old Daddy Leopold Mozart, a composer in his own right.....A highly trained musician who played in the "top band" of the country in his time.(I may be wrong, but was he a specialist in the wind or brass section? Sparks? Christie?). I can assure you Mike, that little Wolfgang had the most superb grounding from the best in the land and was exposed to the most famous and best trained and the greatest international stars by the time he was 5-6 years old. Wolfgang's music has lasted 300 years or so - worldwide. I dare say that a lot of "songwriters/composers" these days are here today and gone tomorrow. You might not "like the guy" (Mozart), but none of us could touch him for genius, inventiveness, talent, artistry, craftsmanship, durability or versatility, if measured in OUR metier - stained glass. Part of being an Artist, is also being aware of other forms of art to that of your own. One of these days, I hope that guys like yourself, wake up and take a real part in your own heritage of the so called "Western Civilization" and (as Dani wondered) spend a little time checking up where you (and us) came from in terms of history and culture. The World doesn't stop on the East or West Coast of USA, Mike!! Come and join the rest of Western History, Civilization, Arts and Humanity.... Take care now! A very displaced Elisabeth ('n absent Toby) almost en route to Comox Dani Greer wrote: > > Message text written by Carol Tombro > >other than what his father gave him,< > > I would not be able to give anyone musical > training since I don't have any to speak of > myself. What is the father's background? > Could it be that he gave his son formal training... > grounding... a solid foundation? > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 22:06:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:48:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!cecnralph From: Cecily and Ralph Wood To: Eric M Silver Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Subject: Re: Spectrum Glass and Fusion Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:55:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep12.205545.0> References: <> Organization: Grendel Studios Precedence: bulk I suspect that the size of the kiln determines how fast you can ramp up the temperatures. On the little flash kiln, it took hmmmm, maybe 45 minutes. On the larger kiln it seemed like it took forever and I was in a hurry, so it probably took closer to an hour and a half. Both kilns use an ordinary household circuit (120). The pieces were small. The largest was probably 2" x 2.5". I deliberately made the top piece about an eighth of an inch smaller than the bottom piece, and then foiled the bottom piece so that the top was raised above the panel. What I was doing was creating the grandstands, filled with people at a race track. In front went my newly-married-into the-family nephew's race car. That side of the family are all involved in racing, the wedding had a racing theme, and this panel was a wedding present. Since I am a flower person, I couldn't believe I was doing that, but I thought they'd like it, and indeed they did. I thought the most successful part of the whole panel was the pointelist fused pieces which really do get translated in your mind into that multi-colored spotty look of an audience. Eric M Silver wrote: > That's wild! > > If I understand you took glass that was rated at 96 (Spectrum) and mixed it > with 90 COE rated pieces and you got no cracks or stress failure. Maybe if > you are using frit and streamer these pieces are so small and "already" > fractured that the stree is not there? Any tought on that. > > Also when you say flash fires at 1500º how did it took for you your kiln to > reach this temperature. > > I am progressing at about 280 degrees per hour until I reach the 1450 > degrees point. > > I am curious to find out how fast/slow other fusers are reaching the > temperature. Just curious > > Eric > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cecily and Ralph Wood [mailto:cecnralph@home.com] > Sent: Saturday, September 11, 1999 10:41 PM > To: Eric M Silver > Cc: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Spectrum Glass and Fusion > > I just did a piece where I took a Spectrum opalescent grey - just one of > their ordinary line, used frit and topped it with multi confetti - a > Bullseye, or maybe Uraboros flake/streamer 90 coe - my notes are downstairs. > Worked beautifully. We flash fired it around 1500º, if I recall correctly, > rapidly took it back to about 1100, but let it anneal over night. I tested > it in my friend's little Rapid Fire, and then did the real pieces in her > larger kiln. These pieces were foiled and used in a large panel. > > Eric M Silver wrote: > > > We are quite new to Glass fusion and we just bought our kiln. Very happy > > with. > > > > Anyway I am now starting to accumulate 90 COE glass for our projects but I > > also know that Spectrum is having a line of glass at 96 COE. > > > > Has anyone on the list used the Spectrum glass and if so what do I need to > > watch for. > > > > I have read that Spectrum says 85% of its glass is called compatible but > > what has been the reality of this statement to the common man. > > > > Eric Silver > > Kirkland, WA > > > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > -- > ********************************************************************* > * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood > * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) > ********************************************************************* -- ********************************************************************* * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) ********************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 12 23:25:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:14:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: email.msn.com!crzylynna From: "Lynn Alchin" To: "glass@ bungie.com" Subject: test Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:13:29 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep12.151329.0> Precedence: bulk I seem not to be able to receive any message postings... Thanks Lynn In A Glass of It's Own... Chandler, Az. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 03:39:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 03:01:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: mailing list Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:58:01 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Sep13.11581.0> Precedence: bulk At 13:09 12/09/99 -0700, Bob wrote: >You could help this situation if you followed the instructions at the bottom >of every bungi post when subing/unsubing. > But unfortunately no-one seems to read that bit! Maybe that line should be changed to say : To unsubscribe or change subscription, please email to: glass-request@bungi.com this might get more attention and save them still getting the messages they object to after emailing the list asking to be taken off! EliZabeth in Bournemouth http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 04:11:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 03:49:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones From: "B. S. Jones" To: "'Glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Storing Came Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:48:08 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Sep13.12488.0> Precedence: bulk >When I was at my supplier this morning, I bought several pieces of came and >noticed that the box he keeps it in was nearly empty. I asked him for the >empty box and he gladly gave it to me. He just placed the 4 remaining pieces >into another box. I would have bought them if I had to. I wanted that box!. >Even those of us with a real studio do it too! It's just we have more than >one box. I keep mine across a row of old kitchen cabinets I installed to >hold bevels and stuff. >A tip...seal the box and open an end only. It exposes less of the came to >air and oxidation...just pull what you need out of the end. I use a length of plastic drain pipe with caps on the end. Lots of building fitters,plumbers here in the uk use them tied to the top of their pick up trucks to transport pieces of pipe and so on. I use one just for when I go to get a few new lengths of came and transfer the came from their boxes in the shop over to my pipe which I then just throw in the back of the car.The Pipe only needs to be a few inches in dia and six feet long or so. Brandon UK ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 04:45:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 04:00:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones From: "B. S. Jones" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Elephant trunks again(NG) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:59:34 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Sep13.125934.0> Precedence: bulk years, and I can tell you I'd rather see them with trunk (and ears) down than up -- unless they're browsing for food, an African elephant with trunk up is often an upset elephant! So maybe this will help someone if a client gives you grief about a trunk in the "wrong" position... Apparently the most dangerous position an elephant presents to a human is head down.This usually means if he is coming towards you in this way at speed he may be in the mode where he intends to kill you by crushing you onto the floor. Brandon UK ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 06:13:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 05:56:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: NG: Mozart Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:51:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep13.45124.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Elisabeth (via Mike Peck) >Good old Daddy Leopold Mozart, a composer in his own right.....A highly trained musician who played in the "top band" of the country in his time.(I may be wrong, but was he a specialist in the wind or brass section? Sparks? Christie?).< Strings section actually. Leopold was a very successful composer and "band leader" (at that time it was a small orchestra). But when his children were born he turned them (Wolfgang Mozart & his sister were both violin & keyboard child virtuosos) into a traveling musical side show for the rich and influential. Sister didn't continue with the musical heritage since she was female, but Wolfgang was expected to. To be fair to poppa Leopold, little Wolfgang was a musical genius who would have done music no matter what. But Leopold made sure Wolfgang had all the formal musical training he could get. Studied with Haydn. Just a little musical historical excursion for us bungians. Christie Wood/Art Glass Ensembles 405 E. Walnut St. Rear North Wales, PA 19454 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 06:43:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:21:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: lamp forms Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:13:09 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990913071309.007ab620@pop.racsa.co.cr> Precedence: bulk Dear friends, Advice needed. ..... although I have done several panels lamps, I have never done a tiffany style lamp. More and more of my clients are asking about them, so I thought I might by a form and pattern... you know odessey or worden or some such I see that Whitmore Durgin has their own too. What I want to know, is which is easier to work with, and best buy for the money... seems that one should be able to reuse them with other designs, but some systems appear to need a new form for every design... also there is the styrofoam versus other longer lasting material part.... also, is that movable head holder thing a great necesity? I have a friend who is a metal worker, was wondering how easy it would be to make something similar, and steal one of my husbands photographic tripods....???? Well, would appreaciate any words of advice, meanwhile hammering still going on over our heads while we work. The actual studio hasn't started coming down yet! meg =BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA= =BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA= =BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA= =BA =BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA RICHARD AND MEG LAVAL Apdo 24-5655 Monteverde COSTA RICA PHONE 645-5052 or 645-5419 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 07:13:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:43:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: "Glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Mike's Stained Glass Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:42:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep13.54242.0> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk for all who that are intrested my page http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/ has been updated. i have new tips section including how to make your own glass filigree.i also updated the Sky City pictures. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 07:42:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:16:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Good old Daddy Leopold Mozart, was Re: artists Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:13:45 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep13.141345.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 9/13/99 12:08:50 AM, summitstudio@worldnet.att.net (A very displaced Elisabeth) writes: >Good old Daddy Leopold Mozart, a composer in his own right.....A highly >trained musician who played in the "top band" of the country in his >time.(I may be wrong, but was he a specialist in the wind or brass >section? Papa Mozart was a widely respected composer, violinist, teacher, and author of several treatises on music theory. Incidentally, his primary education was in philosophy and law - and he was kicked out of college for cutting too many classes. Must have spent too much time fiddling around - sorry, couldn't resist - but he didn't have any trouble getting a post as valet and court musician to a local nobleman, and his musical career took off from there (at 24 he was appointed violin teacher to the choirboys of Salzburg Cathedral - not too shabby!). Eventually he gave up his public career almost completely in favor of educating (and exploiting) his children, particularly Wolfie ("the musical miracle of Salzburg"). Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 07:43:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:51:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us!gonzalj From: Jim Gonzalez To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: non-glass Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:08:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep13.6821.0> References: <<1999Sep12.191012.0>> Precedence: bulk On Sun, 12 Sep 1999, Goldpaws wrote: > Howard, > I love it you finally did an NG. > What did your message mean? > Goldpaws > > Howard wrote: > > > > L'Shana Tova to my friends. > > > > Enjoy, Think he's saying Happy New Year to bungi! Jim ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 08:06:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:15:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: RE: Elephant trunks again(NG) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:13:52 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep13.141352.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 9/13/99 7:45:37 AM, b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk writes: >Apparently the most dangerous position an elephant presents to a human is >head down.This usually means if he is coming towards you in this way at >speed he may be in the mode where he intends to kill you by crushing you >onto the floor. Or with bayonets in place, intent on turning you into shish kebab (or maybe scooping you up and tossing you into a tree)......... I wouldn't care to have my structural integrity tested in either fashion. =8-O Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 08:50:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:07:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: NG- Mozart Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:08:50 +0000 Message-ID: <199909131507.LAA16763@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Wolfie > ("the musical miracle of Salzburg"). Yes, I *love the movie and Tom H as the irrepressible young W.Mozart. That laugh *kills me! The music always thrills me and the Requiem evokes tears always. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 09:10:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:22:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ceps.nasm.edu!jellison From: PJ Jellison To: Witchdoc3@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Elephant trunks again(NG) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:23:58 -0400 Message-ID: <37DD1703.22E568B8@ceps.nasm.edu> References: <<1999Sep13.141352.0>> Organization: Smithsonian Institution Precedence: bulk Heh heh. If he is coming towards you "at speed" you need NO other indicator -- he/she has malice aforethought, and you're toast! PJ Jellison Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/13/99 7:45:37 AM, b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk writes: > > >Apparently the most dangerous position an elephant presents to a human is > >head down.This usually means if he is coming towards you in this way at > >speed he may be in the mode where he intends to kill you by crushing you > >onto the floor. > > Or with bayonets in place, intent on turning you into shish kebab (or maybe > scooping you up and tossing you into a tree)......... I wouldn't care to have > my structural integrity tested in either fashion. =8-O > > Sparks > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 10:16:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:38:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "bungi group" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Fw: artist or not Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:30:27 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep13.83027.0> Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: pj friend To: rrk Date: Monday, September 13, 1999 12:29 PM Subject: Re: artist or not >First of all if you bothered to pay attention to anything you would know >that I am not Paul but pj friend. Who happens to be a female. > >Secondly, my notes are short and to the point because I don't have time for >this redundant bantering. > >And last I never give and credence to anyone who doesn't even have the >manners to sign their email. > > >BTW.......I hope you have better things to do. You sure don't belong on a >glass list. > >pj > >Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. >www.waterw.com/~artglass >Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America >Member International Guild of Glass Artists >Associate Member AIA >-----Original Message----- >From: rrk >To: pj friend ; Bungi Glass List >Date: Monday, September 13, 1999 11:44 AM >Subject: Re: artist or not > > >> >> >>pj friend wrote: >>> >>> I was speaking historically. I was speaking of things as they are today >= >>> in >>> the real world. >>> Sorry you don't get it. >>> >>> And its not my theory. Just reality. >> >> >> >>Sorry I didn't get back to this earlier. >>Sunday was busy ... fishing with my son, >>watching the NFL, beer and bbq with friends, >>a load of personal and business correspondence, >>taking care of the wife, etc etc etc. >> >>Your response is approximately what I expected. >> >>You throw out a confused ill-stated one-line theory >>that formal certification is somehow required >>for a person to be an "artist". >> >>I asked you to fill in the blanks. >>To PROVE your theory, such that you >>could SEE that your statements >>are nothing more than a confused >>ill-stated one-line theory with >>no justification or support whatsoever. >> >>You could not do that and responded >>with another confused ill-stated one-liner >>that was, moreover, internally contradictory. >> >>Stick with creating art. >>>From your website you seem to be good at it. >>You are not so good at writing. >>I'd stick to speaking of techniques >>on this list if I were you, at least >>you know how to describe what it is >>you actually do. >> >>A work of art is a communication through >>a medium from one human being to another. >>An artist is trying to say something >>to others. This something may be an emotion >>or an idea or both. A great work of art >>is not necessarily a thing of beauty. >>The film Schindler's List contains very >>little that could be called beautiful >>(except for maybe John William's score), >>yet it is one of the most powerful and >>most moving cinemagraphic works ever made. >>I saw that film when it first came out >>and had to walk out of the theatre several times >>and had nightmares for days afterwards >>and I'm not even Jewish. That was one >>helluva powerful movie, but not beautiful. >>That guy Spielberg really does well. >>My old man (who is an excellent artist btw) >>was on Omaha beach and though I (the eldest son) >>am the only one of the family he has >>EVER spoken to about the war, including my mother >>and his own mother, and his brothers, everyone >>that is ... I don't think I really understood >>that man till I saw that movie. Another film >>that was a great work of art ... >>but NOT beautiful. >> >>An artist creates works of art. >>Dani Greer did not suddenly become an artist >>because some professor types [*] decided >>she'd jumped through sufficient hoops >>to now be deemed an artist. >>Dani Greer is an artist because she >>creates works of art. Her academic >>training increased her depth of >>understanding and exposed her to >>techniques she may not have otherwise >>been exposed to, but it did NOT >>make her an artist. That is, the PROCESS >>of becoming educated help her grow faster >>and learn faster, but did not make her >>an artist. Thats the entire point of >>school ... to learn faster than you could >>on your own ... not to "get a degree". >> >>[* As a former professor, and in Europe >>where being a professor still actually >>MEANS something, I can label this process >>for what it is with complete authority.] >> >>Formal credentials from an institution >>are mostly good for adding weight to your >>opinion when selling to the uninitiated. >>Its a bureaucratic thing too. These >>formal credentials may help when bullshit >>is required to sell a work (which is what I suspect >>you actually meant when you referred to "reality"), >>in addition to the power of the work itself >>but the credentials, the certification that is, >>do NOT make a person an artist. >> >>The Websters definitions put forth on the list >>completely support what I just said. >>These definitions do NOT support >>what YOU said. >> >>Gotta go ..... I have better things >>to do than instruct a grown man on >>elementary reasoning. >> > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 11:05:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:56:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Christie A. Wood" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: NG: Mozart Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:54:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep13.95420.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Christie A. Wood" > But Leopold made sure Wolfgang had all the formal musical training he could get. Studied with Haydn. Just a little musical historical excursion for us bungians.< So, Christie, are you saying that maybe a = little formal training/education might have made a difference? ;-D Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 11:35:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:23:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: go.com!the_wright_light From: wright To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Subject: Robert Lennox Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:18:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep13.41852.0> Precedence: bulk My husband and I spent Saturday at a workshop at Delphi in East Lansing with Robert Lennox. Learned some and enjoyed hearing him. He showed slides of some of his work. He is presently working on restoring windows in a cathedryl in Manhatten. The next day my daughter and husband took a class from him on restoring windowsand learned a lot also. Does anyone know of a glass show that is going to be in Chicago next June? I think he said he is going to be there. Maggie ________________________________________________________ ____ Get your Free GO Network Email address at http://mail.go.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 12:10:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:48:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ceps.nasm.edu!jellison From: PJ Jellison To: Stained Glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Glass and "the museum world" -- and new exhibit at Renwick Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:22:54 -0400 Message-ID: <37DD40E3.9FA46B03@ceps.nasm.edu> Organization: Smithsonian Institution Precedence: bulk A word from "the museum world:" For folks in the Washington,D.C. area, there's a new exhibit at the Smithsonian's Renwick Gallery -- "Glass, Glorious Glass" -- opens Sept.24, remains through Jan 30, 2000. And please -- for whomever wrote the bit about "the museum world of art critics" below (I'm sorry I can't correctly attribute it, but I've gotten lost in all the ">" marks) -- I would suggest that such blanket statements aren't very accurate, nor are they useful. I work at the Smithsonian Institution (not in an art museum although I have friends and colleagues who do). Our art staff includes art historians, conservators and professionals in many art-related fields -- and many of them are talented artists (AND degreed professionals) in their own right, who show in galleries and compete in juried shows. As in all endeavors, there are many types and qualities of "critics," but you'll not find a more creative, involved and professional bunch than in these museums. "Nuff said. Pax! PJ Jellison >OK ... you've stated your theory. >Lets fill it in with some data >and see if it fits the real world >and not just the museum world >of art critics [who are NOT >creators of anything and about >as useful in the art world >as the dead yeast in beer]. > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 13:41:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:24:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Kauriee From: Kauriee@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Liability Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:21:00 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep13.20210.0> Precedence: bulk At which point does the liability of the artist end, and the commercial installer begin? What is the best way to protect myself? Thanks, klw ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 14:13:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:40:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: ceramic soldering guns Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:47:13 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep13.64713.0> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk I am thinking about buying an inta-heat ceramic soldering iron. Any pro's or con's guys? Anyone had any experience with this iron? Thanks in advance. Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 14:48:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:40:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Please resubscribe Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:47:10 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep13.64710.0> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk New intranet service is lower case sensitive. So please change my address to balloch@bridgenet.net. Thanks, Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 14:58:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:47:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Liability Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:47:21 +0000 Message-ID: <199909132046.QAA03843@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > At which point does the liability of the artist end, and the > commercial installer begin? What is the best way to protect myself? By spelling it out in a contract ... although that's not necessarily a guarantee, but what is, given lawyers' propensity to sue? Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 16:00:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:13:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: heesun.com!keane From: "Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd." To: "Shirley Balloch" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: ceramic soldering guns Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:54:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep13.135439.0> Precedence: bulk Don't know about the Insta Heat but I use a Hakko 456 and love it. It's light, comfortable, and heats up quick and really holds its heat....but it's not cheap and your rheostat needs to be able to accept three prong plugs. Robert Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd. 888-508-5595 http://www.heesun.com Custom Design Studio , Supplies & Classes for Stained & Fused Glass & Mosaics -----Original Message----- From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, September 13, 1999 5:17 PM Subject: ceramic soldering guns >I am thinking about buying an inta-heat ceramic soldering iron. Any >pro's or con's guys? Anyone had any experience with this iron? >Thanks in advance. >Shirley B >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 16:28:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:27:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: lamp forms Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:26:22 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep13.142622.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Richard LaVal >also, is that movable head holder thing a great necesity? I have a friend who is = a metal worker, was wondering how easy it would be to make something simila= r, and steal one of my husbands photographic tripods....????< It is not a necessity. You can tack solder the outside of the lampshade when it's on the form. Then carefully remove it off the form. Place the lampshade inside a cardboard box filled with rags. Now solder the inside of the lampshade, gently turning the lampshade so that you have a section which is "flat" upon which you solder. Solder, turn, solder, turn, solder, turn, etc until all lines on the inside are soldered. Now turn the shade over (still inside the box) and do the outside. Solder, turn, solder, turn, etc. Don't need that holder. Christie Wood/Art Glass Ensembles 405 E. Walnut St. Rear North Wales, PA 19454 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 17:54:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:27:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: Dani Greer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG: Mozart Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:05:13 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep13.13513.0> References: <<1999Sep13.95420.0@[207.126.97.2]>> Organization: SBWSA Precedence: bulk Just fyi, Wolfgang could sight read and improvise at the age of 6. That's hard for an adult with years of training to do. I wouldn't ascribe too much to Leopold's influence, except that he certainly encouraged his child prodigies and also exploited them. Being born into a family that was involved in music didn't hurt, but this is the first place I've seen where people believe Leopold could have in any way taught Wolfgang to do the things he could do at such an early age, when Leopold himself was not able to do many of the things Wolfgang was capable of doing. It's kind of like saying Any Warhohl was born into an artistic family, when we know he wasn't, or Truman Capote was born into a literary family; again we know he wasn't. Just examples. There are exceptional people who do exceptional things without being born into an environment that nurtures their talents. Why a 13 year old will graduate from MIT and his parents are just plain ole folks with normal IQ's. Tiz a puzzle. Carol T Carol T Dani Greer wrote: > Message text written by "Christie A. Wood" > > But Leopold made > sure Wolfgang had all the formal musical training he could get. > Studied with Haydn. Just a little musical historical excursion for us > bungians.< > > So, Christie, are you saying that maybe a = > > little formal training/education might have > made a difference? ;-D > > Best, > > Dani Greer > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 18:18:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:43:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: massed.net!wmagdycz From: Elaine To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: ceramic soldering guns Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:40:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep13.164012.0> References: <<1999Sep13.64713.0>> Precedence: bulk Shirley - I have the Inland Insta-Heat ceramic soldering iron and I love it. It's very light (important to me), takes about a minute, maybe a little less, to heat up. It depends, of course, on how hot you want it to get. Elaine Shirley Balloch wrote: > > I am thinking about buying an inta-heat ceramic soldering iron. Any > pro's or con's guys? Anyone had any experience with this iron? > Thanks in advance. > Shirley B > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 18:51:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:15:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!atayloreddesign From: Delores Taylor To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Liability Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:08:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199909140108.VAA01940@spdmraaa.compuserve.com> Precedence: bulk I'm not an attorney but if there is one in the group I'd be interested to see if my general liability experience is accurate for this particular question. If the contract bectween the customer and the artist includes installation then the customer would come to you and you would look to the installer for any liability issues. So you would (if it got that far) request the suit include the installer for breech of contract issues. If however you only do the glass, it would be in your best interest to recommend good installers to the customer and let them deal with installation problems/breaches of contract directly with the installer. IMHO (although my experience was in representing insured's in litigation situations and working with attorneys in transportation contract law has common thread rules) Sender: owner-glass@daver.bungi.com >X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis >From: "Albert Lewis" >To: glass@bungi.com >Subject: Re: Liability >Summary: Authenticated sender is >Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:47:21 +0000 > > >> At which point does the liability of the artist end, and the >> commercial installer begin? What is the best way to protect myself? > >By spelling it out in a contract ... although that's not necessarily >a guarantee, but what is, given lawyers' propensity to sue? > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 19:09:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:33:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ezl.com!stepsue From: Sue Prullage To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: E-tour in Kansas Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:47:00 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Sep13.13470.0> Organization: stainedglassdesign.com Precedence: bulk OK Elizabeth I will come clean on my own. I am not a great student and often like to do things my own way. When we were allowed one pattern only to produce our panel I wondered how we were going to cut glass. We were to place our glass over our only pattern and cut it without making lines on the glass and just following the lines on the pattern. Well I tried it a whole 2 times then said heck "no" this isn't for me. I traced my lines on my glass then cut. But I did use the grinding stone the whole first day. I rebelled on the second day and demanded the grinder. Once the grinder was turned on though there was a run for it. Elizabeth is a wonderful teacher and I wouldn't been able to finish the panel without her. I am sure it will be with the pictures of the E tour. It was 58 pieces and oval. Just shows you how silly a person who has never leaded before can be. But is is lovely. Elizabeth when you read this post I want some English flux, English knifes and English glass cleaner. Please email me when you get home. Thanks for a great weekend. Sue and Bill ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 20:55:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:12:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cros.net!soraya From: "Soraya" To: "Delores Taylor" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Liability Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:11:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep13.19115.0> References: <<199909140108.VAA01940@spdmraaa.compuserve.com>> Precedence: bulk I do not personally have the answers to your legal questions...but I know where you can find them.... The Personal Law Forum on Delphi is ran, and staffed, by lawyers, who are willing to answers questions and give feed back. You can find it at http://forums.delphi.com/perlaw/start Soraya ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 21:15:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:12:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: "Christie A. Wood" Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: lamp forms Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:09:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep13.13957.0> References: <<1999Sep13.142622.0>> Precedence: bulk Christie you gave a really good explanation of tack soldering a lamp form and then removing it from the form and soldering it from the inside out. When you tack solder do you completely fill in solder between pieces or just tacking the pieces together. I have always soldered the outside in final form before removing it from the form. I was wondering if just tack soldering made it easier to remove from the form. Peggy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 22:57:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:16:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!mschatee From: mschatee@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Thanks Vic Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:58:13 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep14.05813.0> References: <> Precedence: bulk What a fantastic idea. I will ask my grandmother if she has any artwork that would be conducive for stained glass. She paints in a Rubenesque style, very abstract but she could probably come up with something. I can't believe I never thought of it before. THanks Vic. See this is why I love Bungi! Caren ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 13 23:26:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:43:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!cecnralph From: Cecily and Ralph Wood To: Bungi Glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Subject: physics of glass Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:51:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep13.215128.0> Organization: Grendel Studios Precedence: bulk The new October 99 Discover magazine has an interesting article on "The Physics of ... Glass" by Robert Kunzig on page 45. It hasn't hit the website yet. -- ********************************************************************* * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) ********************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 14 06:08:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 05:39:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: Re: Elephant trunks again(NG) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:49:44 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990913174944.00808c10@pop.racsa.co.cr> References: <<1999Sep13.141352.0>> Precedence: bulk Not always!!! When we were in Kenya we inadvertently drove between a bull elephant and its herd.... it chased our little car down the road several hundred yards... I was watching it's knee caps in the back window!!! BUT I am definitely NOT toast (yet!) Meg At 11:23 AM 9/13/99 -0400, you wrote: >Heh heh. If he is coming towards you "at speed" you need=20 >NO other indicator -- he/she has malice aforethought, and >you're toast! > >PJ Jellison > >Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote: >>=20 >> In a message dated 9/13/99 7:45:37 AM, b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk writes: >>=20 >> >Apparently the most dangerous position an elephant presents to a human= is >> >head down.This usually means if he is coming towards you in this way at >> >speed he may be in the mode where he intends to kill you by crushing you >> >onto the floor. >>=20 >> Or with bayonets in place, intent on turning you into shish kebab (or= maybe >> scooping you up and tossing you into a tree)......... I wouldn't care to have >> my structural integrity tested in either fashion. =3D8-O >>=20 >> Sparks >> ---- >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > =BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA= =BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA= =BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA= =BA =BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA=BA RICHARD AND MEG LAVAL Apdo 24-5655 Monteverde COSTA RICA PHONE 645-5052 or 645-5419 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 14 06:38:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 06:01:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!HiimLaura From: HiimLaura@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: NG: Help with show table covers Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:59:53 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep14.125953.0> Precedence: bulk Hello everyone I need help! The one thing that I can't stand at craft shows is putting table covers on! I use sheets and they always seem to be too long on one or two ends and it takes me forever to clip them up underneath with clothespins to make them look decent. This is extremely frusturating, since I always feel that I am wasting time messing with these. But most shows want you to have them to touch the ground (which I know looks best anyway, and that's where I store my boxes). I've seen that you can order ones that are custom made, but way to expensive for me. Any hints here? thanks in advance, Laura HiimLaura@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 14 07:14:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 06:29:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: lamp forms Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:27:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep14.52721.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Peggy W. Johnsen" >Christie you gave a really good explanation of tack soldering a lamp for= m and then removing it from the form and soldering it from the inside out. When you tack solder do you completely fill in solder between pieces or just tacking the pieces together. I have always soldered the outside in final form before removing it from the form. I was wondering if just tack soldering made it easier to remov= e from the form. Peggy< I don't do a full solder on the outside before removing it from the form. I do a pretty good tack solder. The reason why I don't do a full finished solder on the outside before removing it from the form is because the inside soldering usually has some drip-throughs. And I just find it easier to not worry about the drip-throughs while doing the inside soldering, because I know I'll take care of them when I'm doing the final finish soldering on the outside. As to whether just tack soldering makes it easier to remove from the form...yes, marginally. If you're doing a full finished solder outside before removing it from the form, you might have some drip-throughs which melt into the form if it is styrofoam. This shortens the life of the form and makes it just a little bit harder to remove. But either way is OK. Christie Wood/Art Glass Ensembles 405 E. Walnut St. Rear North Wales, PA 19454 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 14 09:02:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:22:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: erols.com!deethom From: Dee Thompson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: NG: Help with show table covers Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:01:49 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990914110130.00aae208@pop.erols.com> Precedence: bulk twin size bedspread in a heavy cotton solid color with a lace tablecloth on top...looks nice...slightly padded. the spread was hemmed to fit...straight line on the sewing machine, nothing fancy. Try it on your table, pin to fit, sew a couple straight lines with your machine and no more foot tripping cloth on the floor...take it off, wash and back in the show box for next time. I kept a rubbermaid tub with all that sort of stuff, so there wasn't a last minute scramble (since i put things off!) Dee At 08:59 AM 9/14/99 EDT, HiimLaura@aol.com wrote: > >Hello everyone >I need help! > >The one thing that I can't stand at craft shows is putting table covers on! >I use sheets and they always seem to be too long on one or two ends and it >takes me forever to clip them up underneath with clothespins to make them >look decent. This is extremely frusturating, since I always feel that I am >wasting time messing with these. But most shows want you to have them to >touch the ground (which I know looks best anyway, and that's where I store my >boxes). I've seen that you can order ones that are custom made, but way to >expensive for me. Any hints here? > >thanks in advance, >Laura >HiimLaura@aol.com >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 14 10:07:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:22:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ceps.nasm.edu!jellison From: PJ Jellison To: HiimLaura@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG: Help with show table covers Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:24:58 -0400 Message-ID: <37DE76C5.F23FDAF2@ceps.nasm.edu> References: <<1999Sep14.125953.0>> Organization: Smithsonian Institution Precedence: bulk Can you use your own table, or do you have to take what they provide at the show? PJ Jellison HiimLaura@aol.com wrote: > > Hello everyone > I need help! > > The one thing that I can't stand at craft shows is putting table covers on! > I use sheets and they always seem to be too long on one or two ends and it > takes me forever to clip them up underneath with clothespins to make them > look decent. This is extremely frusturating, since I always feel that I am > wasting time messing with these. But most shows want you to have them to > touch the ground (which I know looks best anyway, and that's where I store my > boxes). I've seen that you can order ones that are custom made, but way to > expensive for me. Any hints here? > > thanks in advance, > Laura > HiimLaura@aol.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 14 12:12:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:16:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us!gonzalj From: Jim Gonzalez To: Shirley Balloch Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: ceramic soldering guns Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:31:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep14.10315.0> References: <<1999Sep13.64713.0>> Precedence: bulk On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, Shirley Balloch wrote: > I am thinking about buying an inta-heat ceramic soldering iron. Any > pro's or con's guys? Anyone had any experience with this iron? > Thanks in advance. > Shirley B > ---- I bought one of these (100w) and was disappointed with it. It does not have the staying power. I start down a long joint and it seems to run out of heat and stops. I have to wait while it heats up again. It has a small tip so not much heat 'storage'. At first I thought it might be my temp controller but I put an ammeter between the iron and controller and current was always flowing. I'm thinking about looking for a larger tip or new iron. Any suggestions?? This has been my experience. Jim ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 14 12:39:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:40:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: "Christie A. Wood" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: lamp forms Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:40:01 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep14.4401.0> References: <<1999Sep14.52721.0>> Organization: weaver51@teleport.com Precedence: bulk Seems to me tacking the outside and removing the shade may cause it to lose some of its contour when it is subject to the weight of the glass and solder and of course gravity, if one is not careful. Second observation is seems like it is almost twice the labor to tack and remove and final solder the outside. Once over should be enough on the outside. as for bleed solder through, ways to protect the styroform a bit. as for setting up the shade on a holder (recommended by H. Rubin), should be rigid ( final bead soldered on the outside) other wise will probably get out of round. I have been doing ONLY Odyssey so the bleed through is not a factor.......I solder in the ring (NOTE: LEVEL the shade BEFORE soldering the ring.....shim the ring to keep the shade level) and then attach the shade to the leveler and solder the inside....easy, NO? weaver51@teleport.com Elaine and Howard best lamps on the "net": http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 14 13:44:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:02:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: Lee Boe To: CRAFTUSA@aol.com, hotglass@list.bb.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: DeQuervain's or Carpal Tunnel - see the doctor Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:57:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep14.115742.0> References: <> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk No, Sarasota is on the west coast of Florida, we will get some rain and wind, but that's (luckily) all. The storm is wider than the length of Florida, about 600 miles wide. Already done all the stuff, water, batteries, food, took the back patio plants around to the sheltered front, and getting ready to 'batten down the hatches' nevertheless. Thanks for inquiring, I know several are on the east coast, Linda Abbott, and several others, Art Glass house in Cocoa, where it is expected to take a direct hit. The East coast and middle of Florida is in for a really bad time with it. Disneyworld, (first time ever closed) Epcot, and all fights into and out of Florida (at least American Airlines) are canceled, and schools closed. Going to try to get some sleep now, as when it is closer, will have to be up, monitoring everything. Plus the extra pain in my foot, leg, hip, and back make sleep impossible then. Lee Boe :-0 CRAFTUSA@aol.com wrote: > > Lee, > I forgot to ask.......are you in the path of hurican Floyd? I hope not. If > so maybe you won't even get this e-mail......evacuated? > Take Care, > Diane ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 14 14:42:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:59:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: ceramic soldering guns Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:57:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep14.125729.0> References: <<1999Sep14.10315.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Jim Gonzalez wrote: > > On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, Shirley Balloch wrote: > > I am thinking about buying an inta-heat ceramic soldering iron. Any > > pro's or con's guys? Anyone had any experience with this iron? > > Thanks in advance. > > Shirley B > > ---- > I bought one of these (100w) and was disappointed with it. It does > not have the staying power. I start down a long joint and it > seems to run out of heat and stops. I have to wait while it heats up > again. It has a small tip so not much heat 'storage'. At first I thought > it might be my temp controller but I put an ammeter between the iron and > controller and current was always flowing. I'm thinking about looking for > a larger tip or new iron. Any suggestions?? > This has been my experience. > > Jim > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i use an ungar with the 1 piece screw on heater... light, and works well. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are also a lot of new Sky City pictures. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 14 15:08:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:50:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim Atwood" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NG - IMHO? Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:49:31 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep14.64931.0> References: <<1999Sep10.34443.0>> Organization: Holtenwood Studios Precedence: bulk And the newest one I have seen in this series: ROTFLSHIWMP (Rolling On The Floor Laughing So Hard I Wet My Pants) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 8:44 PM Subject: Re: NG - IMHO? > In a message dated 9/9/99 9:43:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net writes: > > << I've still not figured out LOL, but love ROTFLMHO. >> > > I thought it was ROTFLMAO ? > Brenda > ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 14 16:48:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:05:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ceps.nasm.edu!jellison From: Pat Jellison To: HiimLaura@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG: Help with show table covers Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:04:49 -0400 Message-ID: <37DED48D.E3E327DE@ceps.nasm.edu> References: <> Precedence: bulk Hi Laura, I thought that was probably the situation but didn't want to assume. The idea I had was to make an adjustable top and skirt: 1. Use a flat piece of cloth to cover the tabletop (size it generously to accommodate tables of different lengths/widths -- the overhang won't show when your done with it. 2. Measure the height of your own tables. Add an allowance on top and bottom for hemming, and maybe a skootch extra; that's "skirt measurement A." Also guesstimate the perimeter of the longest table you're likely to encounter and add a skootch for hemming; that's "skirt measurement B." 3. Get another flat rectangle of cloth that measures "Skirt Measurement A" x "Skirt Measurement B." Hem both long sides and both short sides. 4. Get some sticky-backed velcro stripping. Stick a length of the fuzzy half of it onto one long end of the skirt. It's best to run it the full length rather than to space short pieces. 5. Don't stick the "hooked" half of the velcro to anything. Keep the backing on. Just cut a generous length, several inches longer than "skirt measurement B." 6. To assemble the cover onto a table: a. Spread the top cover on, with overhang on all sides b. Wrap your hooked velcro strip, hooked side out, around the edge of the tabletop and secure it in back with a diaper pin. (I love diaper pins.) If it's a big table, you can use a couple more diaper pins to secure the velcro strip in front so it won't slip down. c. Stick the skirt onto the top via the velcro. Have the two ends at the back of the table where they won't show; fold any extra length over and secure it with ...more diaper pins. Email me offlist if anything isn't clear, and I'll try to help. I use this method for party tables, and it does work and it's quick. (I've even used a solid color for the top, and patterned fabric for the skirt.) What makes it work is that most tables are of a pretty standard height, so your skirt will always fall just right. And any gap or foldover in back won't show to the public (but it will make a nice access for you to get to your boxes.) Another option, by the way, is to plan on using a fresh piece of "hooked-side" velcro each time or two, and then you can just stick it directly to the top fabric along the table edge. (This is even faster to set up; it just means that you'd have to replace that velcro strip after it loses its stickiness.) Hope this helps! Cheers, PJ Jellison HiimLaura@aol.com wrote: > > That is why I am having these problems - sometimes I use my own tables, other > times I use those provided by the show. I'm looking for ideas that are > versale for these different tables > thanks, > Laura ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 14 20:33:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:34:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: wolf.net!dimitrovich From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" To: Subject: test Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:05:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep14.18547.0> Precedence: bulk no messages in awhile. maybe everyone is busy. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 14 20:53:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:40:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!cecnralph From: Cecily and Ralph Wood To: Bungi Glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Subject: Re: ceramic soldering guns Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:28:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep14.182824.0> References: <<1999Sep14.10315.0>> Organization: Grendel Studios Precedence: bulk I've got 3 irons, the ordinary Weller, and Esico (with a wonderful slanted oval tip that lets me run a looong bead), and the Inland ceramic (lighter and smaller tip). ALL my irons cycle on and off like Jim mentioned - and it gets worse around 11/12 and on into the night, when you'd think it would be stronger and more steady since nobody much is using electricity then. (I've often thought that we have "low electric pressure" the way we have low water pressure.) It is most mystifying, and irritating. I also have a good rheostat, which helps some but not all. I've been told that it is not necessary to use one with the Inland because the ceramic is supposed to hold it at a steady temperature. Talking about irons, has any one tried the soldering gun type that is supposed to automatically feed the solder? I've seen it but never in use? How does the solder feed? You hand push it to the iron tip? I just can't envision how it could work. - Cec Jim Gonzalez wrote: > On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, Shirley Balloch wrote: > > I am thinking about buying an inta-heat ceramic soldering iron. Any > > pro's or con's guys? Anyone had any experience with this iron? > > Thanks in advance. > > Shirley B > > ---- > I bought one of these (100w) and was disappointed with it. It does > not have the staying power. I start down a long joint and it > seems to run out of heat and stops. I have to wait while it heats up > again. It has a small tip so not much heat 'storage'. At first I thought > it might be my temp controller but I put an ammeter between the iron and > controller and current was always flowing. I'm thinking about looking for > a larger tip or new iron. Any suggestions?? > This has been my experience. > > Jim > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- ********************************************************************* * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) ********************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 14 21:09:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:01:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: soltec.net!tamis From: "Tami Siddens" To: Subject: NG: Table covers Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:38:45 -0000 Message-ID: <1999Sep14.203845.0> Precedence: bulk Laura, I love cloth table skirts, but hate the pinning. I found a cloth table skirt with Velcro, fits over a tablecloth with Velcro. Looks great if you can find someone to make one for you or make one yourself. I use bed sheets for these types of projects, plain or patterned. They wash and dry well and are already hemmed. Tami ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 14 21:27:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:15:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: wolf.net!dimitrovich From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" To: Subject: Hello? Did I get unsubcribed? Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:47:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep14.18478.0> Precedence: bulk OK. I just tested my email server and it is working fine. Did I inadvertently get removed from the list? If so, please put me back! :) I'm not getting any messages at all. Even one that I sent to the list. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 14 22:36:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:43:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!ACASADO From: ACASADO@webtv.net (Ali Casado) To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Cracked glass Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:37:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep14.203722.0> Precedence: bulk Hi All, Hope someone can help me solve a mystery. I slumped a piece of 16x16 (I believe Armstrong streaky amber). The glass studio where I bought it wasn't quite sure. I cut it into a circle by using a circle cutter, then tapping the score to remove the excess . I then slumped the circle over a 7" stainless steel floral former. I ramped it up slowly (200' per hour) to 1175. Flashed vented, closed the kiln lid and let it cool slowly (approx 4-5 hours) to room temp. When I removed it, I was crushed. On one side of this otherwise beautiful piece , was cracked from the bottom edge almost to the top. You cannot feel it. It is as smooth as the rest of the glass. Do you think the tapping could have caused a small fracture which could not be seen until after firing? I had already slumped 2 other pieces of glass on the same floral former (1/Uro the other Spectrum). Same ramp speed; same temp.; same everything with the exception that I didn't cut them into circles. I kept them square, but slightly free-formed the edges. That was the ONLY difference and absolutely no problem. I hope someone can give me an idea of what the problem could have been. Thanking you in advance Ali =) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 14 23:11:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:11:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Cecily and Ralph Wood" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: ceramic soldering guns Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:11:20 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep14.151120.0> Precedence: bulk > ALL my irons cycle on and off like Jim mentioned - and it >gets worse around 11/12 and on into the night, when you'd think it would be >stronger and more steady since nobody much is using electricity then. (I've >often thought that we have "low electric pressure" the way we have low water >pressure.) It is most mystifying, and irritating. It does sound like you have low voltage at night. A voltmeter would prove it one way or the other. A difference of two or three volts can make a big difference in the heating rate of your iron. If you don't have a voltmeter you might try boiling a pan of measured water on an electric stove. If it takes longer at night you likely have lower voltage. Your power company may well buy/sell power at different times of the day to other companies and this could be the root cause of the problem. >I also have a good rheostat, which helps some but not all. I've been told >that it is not necessary to use one with the Inland because the ceramic is >supposed to hold it at a steady temperature. True but after a few hours of no load the tip tends to loose its platting and leaving it on overnight means tip replacement. I know- I did it. >Talking about irons, has any one tried the soldering gun type that is >supposed to automatically feed the solder? I've seen it but never in use? >How does the solder feed? You hand push it to the iron tip? I just can't >envision how it could work. - Cec The solder is fed by pulling a trigger after you feed in a length you precut to about one foot. The tip is bent at a right angle and the solder is pushed into it by the action of the trigger. I have one but it is more of a novelty. It is handy when you want to hold the object to be soldered and so only have one hand left for soldering. Bob in SOCAL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 15 00:08:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:16:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tir.com!jazzykid From: "jazzykid" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Tampa Florida Classes Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 02:15:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep14.221519.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all, Is anyone going to the Glass Crafters classes Sept 30 thru Oct 3? Please email me if you are Jill jazzykid@tir.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 15 06:16:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 05:18:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!cecnralph From: Cecily and Ralph Wood To: Bob Duchesneau Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Subject: Re: ceramic soldering guns Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:26:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep15.4260.0> References: <<00db01beff38$c21bb600$d1e6fdd1@default>> Organization: Grendel Studios Precedence: bulk Even if I do prove I have low voltage at night, what can be done about it? (Other than using the BG&E bitchline which I doubt would get me anywhere.) Bob Duchesneau wrote: > > ALL my irons cycle on and off like Jim mentioned - and it > >gets worse around 11/12 and on into the night, when you'd think it would be > >stronger and more steady since nobody much is using electricity then. > (I've > >often thought that we have "low electric pressure" the way we have low > water > >pressure.) It is most mystifying, and irritating. > > It does sound like you have low voltage at night. A voltmeter would prove it > one way or the other. A difference of two or three volts can make a big > difference in the heating rate of your iron. If you don't have a voltmeter > you might try boiling a pan of measured water on an electric stove. If it > takes longer at night you likely have lower voltage. Your power company may > well buy/sell power at different times of the day to other companies and > this could be the root cause of the problem. > > >I also have a good rheostat, which helps some but not all. I've been told > >that it is not necessary to use one with the Inland because the ceramic is > >supposed to hold it at a steady temperature. > > True but after a few hours of no load the tip tends to loose its platting > and leaving it on overnight means tip replacement. I know- I did it. > > >Talking about irons, has any one tried the soldering gun type that is > >supposed to automatically feed the solder? I've seen it but never in use? > >How does the solder feed? You hand push it to the iron tip? I just can't > >envision how it could work. - Cec > > The solder is fed by pulling a trigger after you feed in a length you precut > to about one foot. The tip is bent at a right angle and the solder is pushed > into it by the action of the trigger. I have one but it is more of a > novelty. It is handy when you want to hold the object to be soldered and so > only have one hand left for soldering. > > Bob in SOCAL -- ********************************************************************* * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) ********************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 15 08:19:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 06:30:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: NG - IMHO? Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:28:21 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep15.132821.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 9/14/99 6:09:58 PM, atwoods@aisl.bc.ca writes: >ROTFLSHIWMP >(Rolling On The Floor Laughing So Hard I Wet My Pants) Then there's ROFLMAOSDHICSIAM (Rolling on the floor laughing my a** off so d***ed hard I can't stand it any more) Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 15 08:23:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 06:42:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Low electric pressure? was Re: ceramic soldering guns Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:41:46 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep15.134146.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 9/14/99 11:54:12 PM, cecnralph@home.com writes: >ALL my irons cycle on and off like Jim mentioned - and it >gets worse around 11/12 and on into the night, when you'd think it would be >stronger and more steady since nobody much is using electricity then. (I've >often thought that we have "low electric pressure" the way we have low >water pressure.) It is most mystifying, and irritating. A lot of electric companies do cut back on the power output around the end of the "normal" working day precisely because demand goes down (at least in theory). Out here in the 'burbs west of Phila. PA I've noticed that I have to turn my (already blazing) iron up another notch around 4:30 pm. I could almost set my watch by the old backup power box on our computer - it beeped around 4:30. Occasionally our lights flicker a bit. Sparks (not affiliated with the electric company or any other utility) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 15 08:23:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 06:30:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: lamp forms Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:26:32 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep15.132632.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 9/14/99 10:16:39 AM, Ensembles@compuserve.com writes: >As to whether just tack soldering makes it easier to remove >from the form...yes, marginally. If you're doing a full finished >solder outside before removing it from the form, you might >have some drip-throughs which melt into the form if it is >styrofoam. This shortens the life of the form and makes it >just a little bit harder to remove. Not to mention that if you hold your glass pieces in place with straight pins, and if you've got a pin or two here or there pushed in all the way to hold a piece in just the right position, and you don't remember that you did that when you solder that area, and you go ahead and do a full solder, you just might end up with a half-finished lamp pinned securely to the mold. Not that I'm speaking from personal experience, of course....... :-) Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 15 09:59:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 06:30:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: lamp forms Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:26:32 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep15.132632.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 9/14/99 10:16:39 AM, Ensembles@compuserve.com writes: >As to whether just tack soldering makes it easier to remove >from the form...yes, marginally. If you're doing a full finished >solder outside before removing it from the form, you might >have some drip-throughs which melt into the form if it is >styrofoam. This shortens the life of the form and makes it >just a little bit harder to remove. Not to mention that if you hold your glass pieces in place with straight pins, and if you've got a pin or two here or there pushed in all the way to hold a piece in just the right position, and you don't remember that you did that when you solder that area, and you go ahead and do a full solder, you just might end up with a half-finished lamp pinned securely to the mold. Not that I'm speaking from personal experience, of course....... :-) Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 15 09:59:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 06:30:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: NG - IMHO? Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:28:21 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep15.132821.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 9/14/99 6:09:58 PM, atwoods@aisl.bc.ca writes: >ROTFLSHIWMP >(Rolling On The Floor Laughing So Hard I Wet My Pants) Then there's ROFLMAOSDHICSIAM (Rolling on the floor laughing my a** off so d***ed hard I can't stand it any more) Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 15 10:28:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 06:42:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Low electric pressure? was Re: ceramic soldering guns Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:41:46 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep15.134146.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 9/14/99 11:54:12 PM, cecnralph@home.com writes: >ALL my irons cycle on and off like Jim mentioned - and it >gets worse around 11/12 and on into the night, when you'd think it would be >stronger and more steady since nobody much is using electricity then. (I've >often thought that we have "low electric pressure" the way we have low >water pressure.) It is most mystifying, and irritating. A lot of electric companies do cut back on the power output around the end of the "normal" working day precisely because demand goes down (at least in theory). Out here in the 'burbs west of Phila. PA I've noticed that I have to turn my (already blazing) iron up another notch around 4:30 pm. I could almost set my watch by the old backup power box on our computer - it beeped around 4:30. Occasionally our lights flicker a bit. Sparks (not affiliated with the electric company or any other utility) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 15 10:30:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:19:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: excite.com!carolyn_boring From: "Carolyn " To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: no email Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:18:18 PDT Message-ID: <937405098.8930.666@excite.com> Precedence: bulk I'm not getting any mail...have I been dumped from bungi? ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 15 10:42:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:32:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us!gonzalj From: Jim Gonzalez To: Cecily and Ralph Wood Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: ceramic soldering guns Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:46:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep15.64653.0> References: <<1999Sep15.4260.0>> Precedence: bulk On Wed, 15 Sep 1999, Cecily and Ralph Wood wrote: > Even if I do prove I have low voltage at night, what can be done about it? > (Other than using the BG&E bitchline which I doubt would get me anywhere.) > If you do have low voltage the power company is obligated to correct it, you may just have a bad ground. Having said that I doubt the voltage would be lower at night. The electric system load in general is lower at night and power companies have excess power so the voltage tends to rise. The voltage would be lower during high load periods of the day, the morning load pickup ( 6am -> 11am) and during the evening (5pm -> 7pm). Jim ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 15 10:53:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:44:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: ceramic soldering guns Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:42:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep15.64233.0> References: <<1999Sep15.4260.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Cecily and Ralph Wood wrote: > > Even if I do prove I have low voltage at night, what can be done about it? > (Other than using the BG&E bitchline which I doubt would get me anywhere.) > > Bob Duchesneau wrote: > > > > ALL my irons cycle on and off like Jim mentioned - and it > > >gets worse around 11/12 and on into the night, when you'd think it would be > > >stronger and more steady since nobody much is using electricity then. > > (I've > > >often thought that we have "low electric pressure" the way we have low > > water > > >pressure.) It is most mystifying, and irritating. > > > > It does sound like you have low voltage at night. A voltmeter would prove it > > one way or the other. A difference of two or three volts can make a big > > difference in the heating rate of your iron. If you don't have a voltmeter > > you might try boiling a pan of measured water on an electric stove. If it > > takes longer at night you likely have lower voltage. Your power company may > > well buy/sell power at different times of the day to other companies and > > this could be the root cause of the problem. > > > > >I also have a good rheostat, which helps some but not all. I've been told > > >that it is not necessary to use one with the Inland because the ceramic is > > >supposed to hold it at a steady temperature. > > > > True but after a few hours of no load the tip tends to loose its platting > > and leaving it on overnight means tip replacement. I know- I did it. > > > > >Talking about irons, has any one tried the soldering gun type that is > > >supposed to automatically feed the solder? I've seen it but never in use? > > >How does the solder feed? You hand push it to the iron tip? I just can't > > >envision how it could work. - Cec > > > > The solder is fed by pulling a trigger after you feed in a length you precut > > to about one foot. The tip is bent at a right angle and the solder is pushed > > into it by the action of the trigger. I have one but it is more of a > > novelty. It is handy when you want to hold the object to be soldered and so > > only have one hand left for soldering. > > > > Bob in SOCAL > > -- > ********************************************************************* > * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood > * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) > ********************************************************************* > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass don't know. over here we have higher then normal voltage. at about 125 to 129 volts. bulbs are burning out everywhere. and i think the higher voltage was the reason my electronic flourescent caught fire (thank god i was there when it did). the electric company claims that's within acceptable limits... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are also a lot of new Sky City pictures. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 15 11:06:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:39:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net (synergyglass) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: NG: Help with show table covers Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:37:43 -0700 Message-ID: <199909151637.JAA23835@mimas.island.net> Precedence: bulk Laura...here's what I used to do when I was starting out. I went to my fabric store and bought about 10 yards of an unbleached heavy cotton that was 45" wide. I chose something with a kind of nubbly texture so wrinkles wouldn't show. Prewash and dry the fabric. I used this in many different ways and forms when I was starting and sometimes still use the fabric if I need a plain backdrop at a show, or to cover a pile of boxes at outdoor shows. To cover a table, cut a piece long enough to cover one side and 2 ends of an 8 ft table (that way you'll have an open back to store stuff under), and the selvage provides a premade hem, which means no sewing. Over time the torn edges provide a neat fringe on the ends, so no sewing ever. I hate sewing. Make sure you plan for an 8 ft table, even if you're using a 6 ft table now...increases the flexibility for reuse. Okay, so at this point the cloth is too wide to run from the floor to the table edge...no problem. Put the selvage edge level with the floor and fold the excess over the top of the table and miter the corners like you were wrapping the end of a package. Take duct tape (every show person's favorite tool!) and tape in place. Cut another piece of fabric long enough to cover the length of the table and drape over the ends. This will form a tablecloth that covers your taping. Again, no sewing because the selvage edge is showing. There's a couple of places where it's a bit uneven but no one will ever notice...remember they're looking at your work anyway. Presto bingo...a skirted table with clean classic looks instead of a frilly ruffled look. When you get up into the professional show circuit you can order predraped tables to be present in your booth when you get there...cuts down on the setup time and how much stuff you have to lug to another city. Good luck C. > >Hello everyone >I need help! > >The one thing that I can't stand at craft shows is putting table covers on! >I use sheets and they always seem to be too long on one or two ends and it >takes me forever to clip them up underneath with clothespins to make them >look decent. This is extremely frusturating, since I always feel that I am >wasting time messing with these. But most shows want you to have them to >touch the ground (which I know looks best anyway, and that's where I store my >boxes). I've seen that you can order ones that are custom made, but way to >expensive for me. Any hints here? > >thanks in advance, >Laura >HiimLaura@aol.com >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 15 11:40:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:44:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: NOT GLASS Date: Wed Sep 15 09:44:03 1999 Message-ID: <1999Sep16.7223.0> Organization: taylor'd Expressions Precedence: bulk anyone that is in the path of floyd that needs a place to go, i am in cincinnati, and you are welcome to come to my home ... you can contact me at the phone number listed below . i am sorry for the non glass message debbie taylor'd Expressions "Your complete art glass supply source." kleeman@one.net http://www.taylordexpressions.com/ 1-888-488-9616 (toll free) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 15 11:48:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:23:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: MAIL.AOC.STATE.KY.US!KitW From: "Walden, Kit" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: NG-lead poisoning question Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:24:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep15.92459.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all. I guess it is time I quit lurking and start by thanking you all for your supportive and helpful encouragement to those of us who are relatively new to this. I've been doing stained glass for awhile now but have recently opened my own business and have a quick question for everyone. I understand the lead poisoning issue as it pertains to me and fumes and melting and cutting lead, but how does it affect those who buy stained glass? Most importantly, how much exposure are they getting from a suncatcher, ornament, or nightlight made with lead? How are children affected? Should I have a warning on everything to keep them out of the hands of children. For things I know that are going to children, should I copper foil them instead (please say no)? Any ideas, hints, experience in this are would be great appreciated. Thanks so much. I really enjoy your camaraderie and hope to be able to contribute soon. kit Tuilelaith's Stained Glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 15 12:09:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:01:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us!gonzalj From: Jim Gonzalez To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: The E-Tour in Kansas City Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:17:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep15.101711.0> Precedence: bulk > On: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:10:43 -0500 >Elisabeth Spoke through Mike Peck > > Today Mike took me to a convent with some panels by Henry Keck. I have > not heard of him before and not seen any work by him (as a result). But > I was totally floored by his use of paints, glass, colours and creating > depth. WOW!! > > Elisabeth (missing Toby in UK) Here is a short history of the Henry Keck Studio taken from: Henry Keck Stained Glass Studio 1915 - 1974; Edited by Cleota Reed, Syracuse University Press 1985 The Keck Studio (Syracuse, NY) - an American Regional glass studio - maintained an exceptionally high level of work from it's founding in 1913 to its closing in 1974. The studio produced a variety of artwork in a period of near constant change and turmoil. The years 1913 to 1974 were marked by two world wars, the depression, undreamed of advances in science and technology and tremendous social upheavals. Through this the Keck Studio responded flexibly to changing styles, tastes and economic conditions that its output represents quite clearly the range of change in the entire stained glass industry. In 1880 Henry Keck left Germany with his family and father who had owned a millwork shop in Giessen. In America Henry Sr found work in the Tiffany studio making sash and installing windows. In 1887 when an apprenticeship opened up at the Tiffany studio Henry Jr. aged 14, applied and was hired. Henry Jr's apprenticeship exposed him to all aspects of stained glass making. In his own words he was involved with "some of the most beautiful work that firm ever turned out" and he decided to devote his life to the creation of stained glass. In his off hours he reportedly attended the Art Students' League and the Academy of Design. In 1895 Henry left Tiffany to return to Germany to study art in Munich. While in Europe he broadened his knowledge through travel. In 1897 he returned to find America in the midst of an economic slump. After traveling from city to city working on a free-lance basis he returned to New York City where he found work at J and R Studio and then later in the art department of the Montague Castle Stained Glass Studio. Sometime between 1909 and 1911 Keck accepted a position with Pike Stained Glass Studio in Rochester, NY. Keck had been an apprentice glazier with Pike at Tiffany Glass Company many years before. Pike put him in charge of the studio's art work. In 1913 Keck opened his own stained glass studio in Syracuse, NY at the age of 40. Keck followed the practice of most 20th century stained glass firms in dividing up the work along the lines of studio and shop. The artist in the studio designed the windows, produced watercolor sketches and drawings, selected glass colors and/or painted glass. The craftsmen in the shop cut glass pieces, fired the kilns, leaded the windows and installed them. By 1918 Keck's reputation as a superb craftsman was well established. A Syracuse newspaper of that year proclaimed that Keck's "fame" for stained glass was nationwide. In time most of the churches of the Syracuse area were to have windows made by Henry Keck. Including some in the church I attend, the book even has a picture of one window being painted. The book has a chapter with information on all major employees of the studio, including one Stanley Worden who was hired in 1929 as an artist apprentice. Through skill, study, diligence, and the love of his work Worden would advance to succeed Keck as studio director. Another chapter describes in detail the Keck windows of St. Mary's church in Amsterdam NY, a small city 30 miles northwest of Albany on the Mohawk river. Finally a list of the most significant installations of the Keck Studio is included. The list includes the location of the windows and the names of the window artist. Worden noted: "..while at times some of the windows were painted entirely by one person, this would be on rare occasions. Usually everyone in the art department did some painting on each window...". Finally the book has some excellent information on the Arts and Craft movement in Upstate NY around the turn of the century (the last one). This has gotten rather long and as I read through it a tad disjointed, but the book from which I shamelessly stole all this information is an excellent reference unfortunately I had to leave out much. Jim ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 15 13:17:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:17:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: "Walden, Kit" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG-lead poisoning question Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:15:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep15.111544.0> References: <<1999Sep15.92459.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Walden, Kit wrote: > > Hi all. I guess it is time I quit lurking and start by thanking you all for > your supportive and helpful encouragement to those of us who are relatively > new to this. I've been doing stained glass for awhile now but have > recently opened my own business and have a quick question for everyone. > > I understand the lead poisoning issue as it pertains to me and fumes and > melting and cutting lead, but how does it affect those who buy stained > glass? Most importantly, how much exposure are they getting from a > suncatcher, ornament, or nightlight made with lead? How are children > affected? Should I have a warning on everything to keep them out of the > hands of children. For things I know that are going to children, should I > copper foil them instead (please say no)? Any ideas, hints, experience in > this are would be great appreciated. > > Thanks so much. I really enjoy your camaraderie and hope to be able to > contribute soon. > > kit > Tuilelaith's Stained Glass > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass lead can be absorbed by the skin or the mouth. it should be kept away from children. and should'nt be handled for long periods of time... maybe spraying it with laquer would help... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are also a lot of new Sky City pictures. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 15 16:45:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:14:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!gwood From: one.net!gwood To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Re: NG-lead poisoning question Date: Wed Sep 15 16:12:53 1999 Message-ID: <1999Sep16.135053.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BEFFAD.E8BA4860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I get this 'exposure to lead' question a lot from my students. =20 Here is a link. = http://www.osha-slc.gov/OshStd_data/1910_1025_APP_A.html This is OSHA's take on lead. I mean, if you can believe OSHA. =20 The bottom line is if you don't eat it, that means don't hand the baby = the sun catcher for a teether, don't grind it into dust and snort it, don't heat it to over 1500 degrees C and huff the vapor, then you don't have much of a problem. Only lead in organic compound form (such as the old lead additive to gasoline) can be absorbed through the skin. Lead in its elemental form (i.e. lead came or lead in solder) can NOT be absorbed through the skin. Ingestion can occur from handling lead & other objects and placing those objects near and in the mouth. Smoking, make-up, Twinkies, stirring = your coffee with your finger, etc. while handling lead & before washing your hands is bad. Don't do that. =20 The most common form of contamination is from inhaling the dust. For = the 'most' part, lead dust in not prevalent in SG artistry. This obviously depends on technique. There are a lot of people using dry steel wool to clean their lead lines before patina. This is probably the worst thing you can do. =20 As for the danger of the finished product on the consumer, it is = extremely slight. ALTHOUGH considerable handling of a leaded sun catcher & performing any of the afore mentioned no-no's associated with it is as bad for them as for you. =20 Once lead/solder lines has been patinaed (sp?), unless the patina is scratched off, the physical exposure to lead is totally negligible = making panels safe. =20 IMHO Suncatchers are dangerous in any form with or without lead :) (OK, I'm kidding, but let the flames begin...) =20 I'm not saying lead isn't as dangerous as 'they' say. Let loose to contaminate the environment is the first step in the ingestion process. The insidious cumulative nature of lead and it's ability to stay in its form and never go away along with the slow acting damage on humans makes it a very significant problem and should be = handled with care. The sneaky nature of the beast & the problems it causes = along with a misunderstanding of the facts is what causes all of the lead paranoia. All of the warnings about burying in your back-yard, placing = in land fills, dumping in water, etc. should be taken VERY seriously and = lead in any form should be handled in the proper manner. Just understand = what the proper manner really is. DON'T JUST PITCH IT IN THE TRASH. -G > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Walden, Kit > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 1:24 PM > Subject: NG-lead poisoning question >=20 >=20 > Hi all. I guess it is time I quit lurking and start by thanking you = all for > your supportive and helpful encouragement to those of us who are > relatively > new to this. I've been doing stained glass for awhile now but have > recently opened my own business and have a quick question for = everyone. > > I understand the lead poisoning issue as it pertains to me and fumes = and > melting and cutting lead, but how does it affect those who buy stained > glass? Most importantly, how much exposure are they getting from a > suncatcher, ornament, or nightlight made with lead? How are children > affected? Should I have a warning on everything to keep them out of = the > hands of children. For things I know that are going to children, = should > I > copper foil them instead (please say no)? Any ideas, hints, = experience > in > this are would be great appreciated. > > Thanks so much. I really enjoy your camaraderie and hope to be able = to > contribute soon. > > kit > Tuilelaith's Stained Glass > ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BEFFAD.E8BA4860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I get this 'exposure to lead' question a lot from my = students.
 
Here is a link. http://= www.osha-slc.gov/OshStd_data/1910_1025_APP_A.html
This=20 is OSHA's take on lead.  I mean, if you can believe = OSHA.
 
The=20 bottom line is if you don't eat it, that means don't hand the baby = the
sun=20 catcher for a teether, don't grind it into dust and snort it, = don't
heat it=20 to over 1500 degrees C
and huff the vapor, then you don't have much = of a=20 problem.

Only lead in organic compound form (such as the old lead = additive to
gasoline) can be absorbed through the skin.  Lead in = its=20 elemental form
(i.e. lead came or lead in solder) can NOT be absorbed = through=20 the skin.

Ingestion can occur from handling lead & other = objects and=20 placing those
objects near and in the mouth.  Smoking, make-up,=20 Twinkies, stirring your
coffee with your finger, etc.
while = handling lead=20 & before washing your hands is bad.  Don't do = that.
 
The=20 most common form of contamination is from inhaling the dust.  For=20 the
'most' part, lead dust in not prevalent in SG artistry.  = This=20 obviously
depends on technique.  There are a lot of people using = dry=20 steel wool to
clean their lead lines before patina.  This is = probably=20 the worst thing
you can do.
 
As for the danger of the = finished=20 product on the consumer, it is extremely
slight.   ALTHOUGH = considerable handling of a leaded sun catcher &
performing any = of
the=20 afore mentioned no-no's associated with it is as bad for them as=20 for
you.
 
Once lead/solder lines has been patinaed (sp?), = unless=20 the patina is
scratched off, the physical exposure to lead is totally = negligible making
panels safe.
 
IMHO Suncatchers are = dangerous in=20 any form with or without lead :)
(OK, I'm kidding, but let the flames = begin...)
 
I'm not saying lead isn't as dangerous as 'they'=20 say.  Let loose to
contaminate the environment is the first step = in the=20 ingestion process.
The insidious cumulative nature of lead and=20 it's
ability to stay in its form and never go away along with the = slow=20 acting
damage on humans makes it a very significant problem and = should be=20 handled
with care.  The sneaky nature of the beast & the = problems it=20 causes along
with a misunderstanding of the facts is what causes all = of the=20 lead
paranoia.  All of the warnings about burying in your = back-yard,=20 placing in
land fills, dumping in water, etc. should be taken VERY = seriously=20 and lead
in any form should be handled in the proper manner.  = Just=20 understand what
the proper manner really is. DON'T JUST PITCH IT IN = THE=20 TRASH.

 -G

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: = Walden,=20 Kit <KitW@MAIL.AOC.STATE.KY.US&g= t;
>=20 To: <glass@bungi.com>
> Sent:=20 Wednesday, September 15, 1999 1:24 PM
> Subject: NG-lead poisoning = question
>
> 
> Hi all.  I guess it is time = I quit=20 lurking and start by thanking you all
for
> your supportive and = helpful=20 encouragement to those of us who are
> relatively
> new = to =20 this.  I've been doing stained glass for awhile now but = have
>=20 recently opened my own business and have a quick question for=20 everyone.
>
> I understand the lead poisoning issue as it = pertains=20 to me and fumes and
> melting and cutting lead, but how does it = affect=20 those who buy stained
> glass?  Most importantly, how much = exposure=20 are they getting from a
> suncatcher, ornament, or nightlight made = with=20 lead?  How are children
> affected?  Should I have a = warning on=20 everything to keep them out of the
> hands of children.  For = things I=20 know that are going to children, should
> I
> copper foil = them=20 instead (please say no)?  Any ideas, hints, experience
> = in
>=20 this are would be great appreciated.
>
> Thanks so = much.  I=20 really enjoy your camaraderie and hope to be able to
> contribute=20 soon.
>
> kit
> Tuilelaith's Stained=20 Glass
>
------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BEFFAD.E8BA4860-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 15 17:07:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:14:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: wolf.net!dimitrovich From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" To: Subject: Soldering Questions Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:48:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep15.144859.0> Precedence: bulk Hi everyone. At what temperature does 60/40 solder melt? At what temperature does 50/50 solder melt? How high is the temperature on a Weller 100 soldering iron? I am using the broad flat tip that came with it. Thanks. Pamela ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 15 20:35:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:05:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!Beadnik3 From: Beadnik3@webtv.net (J B) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Fusing Question Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:05:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep15.18511.0> Precedence: bulk After annealing, at what temperature is it safe to take the top off the kiln to allow pieces to cool more rapidly??? And, at what temp. is it OK to take the entire shelf out to make room for a new shelf full of stuff to be fired? I am fusing very small pieces..... no larger than 1" X 2.5". Thanks. Joan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 15 20:56:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:35:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!cecnralph From: Cecily and Ralph Wood To: "Walden, Kit" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Subject: Re: NG-lead poisoning question Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:42:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep15.184257.0> References: <<1999Sep15.92459.0>> Organization: Grendel Studios Precedence: bulk This fits into the do I need to polish thread that was running a week or so ago, with more people being against it than for it. I was told to polish the small suncatchers, boxes, panels, etc (we use urethane car polish) and give it 3 coats. The idea is that casual handling of the object would not pose a problem. I'm finding I also need a small handout (You have just axquired a fine work of stained glass...) where I tell them to keep it out of the hands/mouths of babies, how to clean it (soft cloth & rub, or mild dish detergent & dry) and also how to handle larger pieces (hold by edges, never put pressure on the glass itself) and how to store it (on edge). "Walden, Kit" wrote: > Hi all. I guess it is time I quit lurking and start by thanking you all for > your supportive and helpful encouragement to those of us who are relatively > new to this. I've been doing stained glass for awhile now but have > recently opened my own business and have a quick question for everyone. > > I understand the lead poisoning issue as it pertains to me and fumes and > melting and cutting lead, but how does it affect those who buy stained > glass? Most importantly, how much exposure are they getting from a > suncatcher, ornament, or nightlight made with lead? How are children > affected? Should I have a warning on everything to keep them out of the > hands of children. For things I know that are going to children, should I > copper foil them instead (please say no)? Any ideas, hints, experience in > this are would be great appreciated. > > Thanks so much. I really enjoy your camaraderie and hope to be able to > contribute soon. > > kit > Tuilelaith's Stained Glass > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- ********************************************************************* * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) ********************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 15 21:28:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:29:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: NG: Help with show table covers Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:53:18 -0400 Message-ID: <199909160251.WAA24918@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk Laura, Before I had skirts I used two tablecloths - one draped to the floor in front, the other overlapping the top and draping to the back. I used thumbtacks to secure them to the table. Imagine you could do the same with sheets. >Hello everyone >I need help! > >The one thing that I can't stand at craft shows is putting table covers on! >I use sheets and they always seem to be too long on one or two ends and it >takes me forever to clip them up underneath with clothespins to make them >look decent. suzanne albright suzy@comcat.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 15 21:45:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:34:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pd.jaring.my!shakabe From: "Shakeel Abedi" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Kiln Wash Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:38:08 +0800 Message-ID: <1999Sep15.19388.0> Precedence: bulk I have a question folks. Is there any difference between the kiln wash used in glass and ceramics? What? Warm Regards Shakeel Abedi shakeel@tm.net.my Rainbow Stained Glass 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Malaysia Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489 Fax: +607-7733313 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 16 05:53:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 05:22:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summitstudio From: Mike Peck To: Jim Gonzalez Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: The E-Tour in Kansas City Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:24:26 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep16.22426.0> References: <<1999Sep15.101711.0>> Organization: Summit Stained Glass (http://www.summitstudio.com) Precedence: bulk Jim, Thanks for the exerpts from the Keck book. Also, if anyone is interested, there are some nice photos of Keck's work on my website. Go to http://summitstudio.com/page9.html. Take a good look at the close ups of Christ's head from the Gethsemane window, and the sky in the Ascension window. These works should make you a big fan of Henry Keck! Mike Peck Jim Gonzalez wrote: > > > On: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:10:43 -0500 > >Elisabeth Spoke through Mike Peck > > > > Today Mike took me to a convent with some panels by Henry Keck. I have > > not heard of him before and not seen any work by him (as a result). But > > I was totally floored by his use of paints, glass, colours and creating > > depth. WOW!! > > > > Elisabeth (missing Toby in UK) > > Here is a short history of the Henry Keck Studio taken from: Henry Keck > Stained Glass Studio 1915 - 1974; Edited by Cleota Reed, Syracuse > University Press 1985 > > The Keck Studio (Syracuse, NY) - an American Regional glass studio - > maintained an exceptionally high level of work from it's founding in > 1913 to its closing in 1974. The studio produced a variety of artwork > in a period of near constant change and turmoil. The years 1913 to 1974 > were marked by two world wars, the depression, undreamed of advances in > science and technology and tremendous social upheavals. Through this the > Keck Studio responded flexibly to changing styles, tastes and economic > conditions that its output represents quite clearly the range of change in > the entire stained glass industry. > > In 1880 Henry Keck left Germany with his family and father who had owned > a millwork shop in Giessen. In America Henry Sr found work in the Tiffany > studio making sash and installing windows. In 1887 when an apprenticeship > opened up at the Tiffany studio Henry Jr. aged 14, applied and was hired. > Henry Jr's apprenticeship exposed him to all aspects of stained glass making. > In his own words he was involved with "some of the most beautiful work that > firm ever turned out" and he decided to devote his life to the creation of > stained glass. In his off hours he reportedly attended the Art Students' > League and the Academy of Design. > > In 1895 Henry left Tiffany to return to Germany to study art in Munich. > While in Europe he broadened his knowledge through travel. In 1897 he > returned to find America in the midst of an economic slump. After > traveling from city to city working on a free-lance basis he returned to > New York City where he found work at J and R Studio and then later in the > art department of the Montague Castle Stained Glass Studio. > > Sometime between 1909 and 1911 Keck accepted a position with Pike Stained > Glass Studio in Rochester, NY. Keck had been an apprentice glazier with > Pike at Tiffany Glass Company many years before. Pike put him in charge of > the studio's art work. In 1913 Keck opened his own stained glass studio in > Syracuse, NY at the age of 40. > > Keck followed the practice of most 20th century stained glass firms in > dividing up the work along the lines of studio and shop. The artist in the > studio designed the windows, produced watercolor sketches and drawings, > selected glass colors and/or painted glass. The craftsmen in the shop cut > glass pieces, fired the kilns, leaded the windows and installed them. > > By 1918 Keck's reputation as a superb craftsman was well established. A > Syracuse newspaper of that year proclaimed that Keck's "fame" for stained > glass was nationwide. In time most of the churches of the Syracuse area > were to have windows made by Henry Keck. Including some in the church I > attend, the book even has a picture of one window being painted. > > The book has a chapter with information on all major employees of the studio, > including one Stanley Worden who was hired in 1929 as an artist apprentice. > Through skill, study, diligence, and the love of his work Worden would advance > to succeed Keck as studio director. Another chapter describes in detail the > Keck windows of St. Mary's church in Amsterdam NY, a small city 30 miles > northwest of Albany on the Mohawk river. Finally a list of the most > significant installations of the Keck Studio is included. The list > includes the location of the windows and the names of the window artist. > Worden noted: "..while at times some of the windows were painted entirely > by one person, this would be on rare occasions. Usually everyone in the > art department did some painting on each window...". > > Finally the book has some excellent information on the Arts and Craft movement > in Upstate NY around the turn of the century (the last one). > > This has gotten rather long and as I read through it a tad disjointed, but > the book from which I shamelessly stole all this information is an excellent > reference unfortunately I had to leave out much. > > Jim > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 16 06:53:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:01:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!mbwalker From: Brad Walker To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Fusing Question Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 09:01:18 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep16.5118.0> References: <<1999Sep15.18511.0>> Precedence: bulk With the top off, how long does it take for your kiln to cool from 750 degrees F to room temperature? Very small pieces (up to 2", 3/8" thick) adjust to changing temperatures very quickly and can withstand a cooling rate of 1000 degrees/hour or more -- that's 35 minutes or so to get to room temperature. If your kiln takes that long with the lid off, then just take it off at anything below 750. If it falls to room temp in less than half an hour, then wait a while longer before removing the lid. (I usually wait until below 500-600.) Assuming you don't burn yourself, you can safely take very small pieces out of the kiln by 200 degrees and slide in another shelf of equally small pieces. The risk of thermal shock is quite low for pieces of this size. You might even be able to be more aggressive than what I've described, but I'd rather be conservative than cracked. If, however, you're talking larger pieces, then you have to take it more slowly. They will crack if you cool -- or heat -- them too fast. Brad Walker J B wrote: > After annealing, at what temperature is it safe to take the top off the > kiln to allow pieces to cool more rapidly??? And, at what temp. is it > OK to take the entire shelf out to make room for a new shelf full of > stuff to be fired? I am fusing very small pieces..... no larger than 1" > X 2.5". > > Thanks. > > Joan > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 16 07:31:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:51:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!gwood From: "Gregg Wood" To: "Pamela Dimitrovich" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Soldering Questions Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 09:42:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep16.54253.0> References: <<1999Sep15.144859.0>> Precedence: bulk 60% tin/40% lead - Melts 374 oF 50% tin/40% lead - Melts 421 oF I'm assuming the iron your talking about is not one of their regulated tip irons. The temperature at the tip of an unregulated iron depends mostly on the thermal load. That is, if the iron is sitting in a stand, tip down, in dead calm air, convection cooling will keep the tip around 900-950 oF. If its pointed up it will get hotter. If there is a 'wind' (HVAC, exhaust fan, etc.) moving air across it, the temperature will be lower. (This is also dependant on the temperature of the air, obviously.) The temperature will drop when you place the iron on a cooler surface like solid solder or the copper or lead in a panel. How much it drops in that case is a function of things like the mass of the tip & barrel the tip is in and the efficiency of the heater in the iron. The bottom line, under normal operating conditions, trying to run a solder line down 8 - 12 inches of a glass panel at 'room' temperature, the temperature of the tip should not drop below about 850 - 875 oF. Your mileage, however, may vary. -G ----- Original Message ----- From: Pamela Dimitrovich To: Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 6:48 PM Subject: Soldering Questions > Hi everyone. > > At what temperature does 60/40 solder melt? > > At what temperature does 50/50 solder melt? > > How high is the temperature on a Weller 100 soldering iron? I am using the > broad flat tip that came with it. > > Thanks. > > Pamela > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 16 08:32:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:47:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: jewelry boxes Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:46:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep16.6464.0> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk this is sort of a survey: - a new thread if anything else. i've been making boxes for quite some time. and i can only guess as to what can go inside of them. i don't know too many people with jewelry. what i need to know is what kind of jewelry do you put in a jewelry box, glass, wood, etc? rings? rings in boxes, bracelets, necklaces, other? it would be nice to know. this way i can redesign trays, drawers, etc. are there any features you would like to see in a box? eg., hooks, built in mirrors, more trays, drawers, etc. are there any features that you never use, or find cumbersome and why? and are there any features that you like best - eg., has the most space, built in things in the doors, a hidden drawer, a unique feature? ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are also a lot of new Sky City pictures. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 16 08:59:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:12:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: artglassconcepts.com!delores From: "Art Glass Concepts - Delores Taylor" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Kiln Wash Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:03:20 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep16.1320.0> References: <<1999Sep15.19388.0>> Precedence: bulk Hot Line makes a kiln wash for glass which is good but seems to stick to the back of the glass at higher temperatures. I tried my local pottery store in Seattle and liked their shelf wash (in ceramics here kiln and shelf wash are two different formulas) so I buy it in 10 pound bags. The kiln wash is for protecting the firebricks from meltdowns (careful to avoid the heating elements or you'll toastyour elements) while their shelf wash is for normal day to day fusing or ceramics. Try several brands til you get what you like. From: Shakeel Abedi [mailto:shakabe@pd.jaring.my] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 8:38 PM To: bungi Subject: Kiln Wash I have a question folks. Is there any difference between the kiln wash used in glass and ceramics? What? Warm Regards Shakeel Abedi shakeel@tm.net.my Rainbow Stained Glass 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Malaysia Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489 Fax: +607-7733313 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 16 10:53:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:26:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!gwood From: "Gregg Wood" To: "Pamela Dimitrovich" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Soldering Questions Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:20:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep16.92048.0> References: <<002101bf0058$81fb10e0$8cc545d1@4591>> Precedence: bulk Run throughs are a problem for everybody. OK, maybe not everybody, but drip happens. It's just less of a concern for most people after a while. Sounds like I use the same Weller iron that you use. Select the tip & set the heat. Those irons come with a 700 oF tip & I have to say they work pretty well. (For foil that is.) Being able to control the 'power' to the iron for lead is almost mandatory as the melting temperature of lead is 556 oF. The trick is to just fill the gap with solder & don't worry about getting pretty with it. Just fill it up as best you can to that its about level with its surroundings. Then let it cool. Bone cold. Well, OK room temperature. After the gap has cooled, go back & add another layer of 'finishing' solder over the gap. Same solder, different, doesn't matter. Use the same because just easier. The trick is to heat the underlying solder to the temperature where the new solder will stick but not so hot that it will melt. You don;t have much time to dilly-dally around trying to get it perfect. But you do have a good deal of time. Actually the larger the gap, the more the solder in the gap, the more time you have to work in that area. Everyone will warn you not to poke around in the same spot or you could crack your glass. Same concept here, just worse because you don't want to melt the underlying solder. Some techniques that will help. 1) Flux the existing cool solder location. This will help the new solder flow. 2) Don't actually touch the iron to the cool underlying solder. Hold it just above the spot your working on. 3) Run the new solder into the iron tip & let it form a pool over the cool solder. The heat of the new molten solder will heat the cool solder enough to allow it to bond. 4) If the area is so large you can move the iron about to help heat the entire area. 5) This has the added advantage of creating a nice smooth even surface in the new solder. 6) (Be careful with this one.) Place a damp paper towel folded into quarters under the joint you're working on. This will help keep the old cool solder from melting so soon. It will eventually melt but this will slow it down. You have to be careful doing this because it will also exacerbate the problem of uneven heating in the surrounding glass which is what causes cracks. 7) If you hover about to long in one place and the solder melts though, STOP. Let the location cool down completely. The warmer the spot is, the less time you will have to work before the solder melts again. 7) A little practice & patience. This does not come with out a little pain. (WARNING: Extended diatribe on WHY) The problem isn't really in the absolute temperatures. It really is a function of thermal load and thermal mass. Just because you place a 700 oF iron on a piece of solder that melts @ 374 oF your instantly going to melt it. At that point of contact at that instant, the solder will start to heat & the iron will start to cool. For a split second the very small area where they touch will actually become the same temperature which is halfway between the temperature of the tip & the temperature of the solder. The rest of the mass of the solder surrounding that point of contact will start to conduct heat and carry it away, effectively keeping the temperature at the contact point below the melting point. As the heat travels away from the point of contact it radiates to the surrounding air effectively cooling the solder allowing it 'draw' more heat from the contact point. The larger the area of solder in contact with the air, the faster this happens. When the tip of the iron cools it will start to conduct heat from the mass of surrounding tip effectively keeping the tip temperature up. With the heater in the iron adding energy (heat) to the mass of the tip. If there is not enough energy (heat) going into this 'system' the heat simply flows from the iron through the solder and into the air until a happy equilibrium is reached some where below the melting point of the solder. This is why you can't really use a 40 watt iron to do SG work. Even tho the iron will heat up to 700 oF, it can't supply enough energy to overcome the losses and get the solder up to the melting temperature. It may 'start' to melt the solder, but as you move the iron and new, cool solder comes in contact with the iron, there is not enough energy coming into the system to compensate and the iron cools down and stops melting the solder. If you've ever tried to use a small iron you'll see how if you hold it in place long enough the solder will melt around it, but not very far. Then when you move the iron, the spot where you were hardens almost instantly and the spot you moved it to doesn't, leaving you with your iron soldered down to your panel and you have to hold it there until the new spot melts. That's why it is important to select an iron with a good efficient (or just big) heater & a tip with some significant mass to it. It will dramatically improve making long solder lines smoothly. (OK: End of extended diatribe on WHY) Any all rebuffs welcome. -G ----- Original Message ----- From: Pamela Dimitrovich To: Gregg Wood Sent: Thursday, September 16, 1999 11:31 AM Subject: Re: Soldering Questions > Thanks for your replies. I went to Inland's site and got a lot of good > information from there. I appreciate links like that. That is what makes > this list so absolutely wonderful. > > MY problem with this soldering is that I am very new to this and my cutting > skills leave a bit to be desired. I'm working on my 4th piece, a panel about > 10"x16". It has 22 pieces and is a combination of straight cuts and some > curves. It is an art deco flower in the center. My flower areas have a few > gaps. Someone from the list suggested I fill with 50/50 then lower the temp > and run my bead in 60/40. > > If my iron is around 850 degrees + then the 50/50 will melt again too. I > tried using the iron as it is with no rheostat. The Weller 100 seems like a > good iron, but I have no control of the temp. It is supposed to be regulated > per the tip I use. > > Is it possible, with a rheostat, to work this final bead of 60/40 at a temp > lower than the melting point of the 50/50. Can you work at such a low > temperature. > > These questions are probably dumb, but I don't have anyone else to ask. This > list has given me so much help as to keep me addicted to working with > stained glass until I can get into my class in October. I'm one of these - > gotta do it now, gotta know all I can, gotta try and learn this myself, kind > of people. :) > > Thanks again. > > BTW, I'm in Michigan - you? > > Pamela > -----Original Message----- > From: Gregg Wood > To: Pamela Dimitrovich > Date: Thursday, September 16, 1999 12:00 PM > Subject: Re: Soldering Questions > > > >60% tin/40% lead - Melts 374 oF > >50% tin/40% lead - Melts 421 oF > > > >I'm assuming the iron your talking about is not one of their regulated tip > >irons. > >The temperature at the tip of an unregulated iron depends mostly on the > >thermal load. > >That is, if the iron is sitting in a stand, tip down, in dead calm air, > >convection cooling > >will keep the tip around 900-950 oF. If its pointed up it will get hotter. > >If there is a > >'wind' (HVAC, exhaust fan, etc.) moving air across it, the temperature will > >be lower. > >(This is also dependant on the temperature of the air, obviously.) > > > >The temperature will drop when you place the iron on a cooler surface like > >solid solder > >or the copper or lead in a panel. How much it drops in that case is a > >function of things > >like the mass of the tip & barrel the tip is in and the efficiency of the > >heater in the iron. > > > >The bottom line, under normal operating conditions, trying to run a solder > >line down > >8 - 12 inches of a glass panel at 'room' temperature, the temperature of > the > >tip should > >not drop below about 850 - 875 oF. Your mileage, however, may vary. > > > >-G > > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 16 13:54:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:31:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mediaone.net!embee From: "Mary" To: "Mike Savad" , "Bungi" Subject: Re: jewelry boxes Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:11:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep16.12119.0> References: <<1999Sep16.6464.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi, Mike... I love jewelry boxes, and have a few that I really love. I will list the things I look for : 1. Small areas for placing one or two rings (approx. 2" x 2"). 2. A large area for bangle bracelets ( 3" x 3") 3. Lots of small 1.5 x 1.5 areas for earrings to be separated. 4. One rather large area (at least 5" x 5") for clunky bracelets or necklaces. 5. If possible, it would be great if you could lift up the top, then unfold two side trays, which could be for the small sections. 6 It would probably have to be lined in some way, felt or synthetic velvet so the jewelry wouldn't scratch. One note: Women tend to really like little "secret" compartments or niches. It adds to the charm of the box, and distinguishes it from others. Mary ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Savad To: Sent: Thursday, September 16, 1999 10:46 AM Subject: jewelry boxes > this is sort of a survey: - a new thread if anything else. > > i've been making boxes for quite some time. and i can only guess as to > what can go inside of them. i don't know too many people with jewelry. > > what i need to know is what kind of jewelry do you put in a jewelry box, > glass, wood, etc? > > rings? rings in boxes, bracelets, necklaces, other? it would be nice to > know. this way i can redesign trays, drawers, etc. > > are there any features you would like to see in a box? eg., hooks, built > in mirrors, more trays, drawers, etc. > > are there any features that you never use, or find cumbersome and why? > > and are there any features that you like best - eg., has the most space, > built in things in the doors, a hidden drawer, a unique feature? > > > ---Mike Savad > > -- > Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > 9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making > your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are > also a lot of new Sky City pictures. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 16 14:28:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:03:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: atlnet.com!cravenna From: "Cindy Ravenna" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Patterns with Music Themes Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:56:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep16.125630.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_015B_01BF0064.6C598940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! Any one know of a good source of patterns with music themes (notes, = instruments, etc?).=20 Thanks, Cindy=20 Roswell, GA ------=_NextPart_000_015B_01BF0064.6C598940 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi!  Any one know of a good = source of=20 patterns with music themes (notes, instruments, = etc?). 
 
Thanks,
Cindy
Roswell, = GA
------=_NextPart_000_015B_01BF0064.6C598940-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 16 14:45:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:03:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mindspring.com!pigznpawz From: "Jerri" To: "Mike Savad" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: jewelry boxes Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:00:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep16.1309.0> References: <<1999Sep16.6464.0>> Precedence: bulk Well, as a girl who doesn't wear much jewelry, I do wear earrings. I have both french hooks and posts, and would like some way to keep them organized. I have friends that probably have over 100 pairs of earrings just because they are cheap, and you can often finds something whimsical that you like like cats, dogs, holiday themes.......... My ideal box would have something like dowels for haning french hook earrings on, and then maybe a tray with many small slots for posts. Jerri > this is sort of a survey: - a new thread if anything else. > > i've been making boxes for quite some time. and i can only guess as to > what can go inside of them. i don't know too many people with jewelry. > > what i need to know is what kind of jewelry do you put in a jewelry box, > glass, wood, etc? > > rings? rings in boxes, bracelets, necklaces, other? it would be nice to > know. this way i can redesign trays, drawers, etc. > > are there any features you would like to see in a box? eg., hooks, built > in mirrors, more trays, drawers, etc. > > are there any features that you never use, or find cumbersome and why? > > and are there any features that you like best - eg., has the most space, > built in things in the doors, a hidden drawer, a unique feature? > > > ---Mike Savad > > -- > Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > 9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making > your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are > also a lot of new Sky City pictures. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 16 15:37:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:53:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: portable glass shop Date: Thu Sep 16 14:52:34 1999 Message-ID: <1999Sep17.123034.0> Organization: taylor'd Expressions Precedence: bulk i have a question for those of you that use the portable glass shop by morton ... do you set up the angles using the quick angle kit, or do you do the math, or do you lay the pattern down on the board ? i have tried it each way, but would like to know what the majority of you do .... okay, all you lurkers, outta the wood work .... give me an answer he ... you can answer me privately if you would like... kleeman@one.net thanx ... have a GREAT evening debbie debbie taylor kleeman@one.net http://www.taylordexpressions.com your complete stained glass supply source 1-888-488-9616 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 16 16:10:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:27:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Jerri" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: jewelry boxes Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:24:44 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep16.82444.0> Precedence: bulk >>My ideal box would have something like dowels for hanging french hook earrings on, and then maybe a tray with many small slots for posts. Jerri<< Now there is a new market that may sell like crazy. How about a wall hanging like a small medicine cabinet for a jewelry box? Could be a winner. Bob in SOCAL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 16 17:16:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:23:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: jewelry boxes Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:20:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep16.152053.0> References: <<1999Sep16.12119.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Mary wrote: > > Hi, Mike... > I love jewelry boxes, and have a few that I really love. > > I will list the things I look for : > > 1. Small areas for placing one or two rings (approx. 2" x 2"). > > 2. A large area for bangle bracelets ( 3" x 3") > > 3. Lots of small 1.5 x 1.5 areas for earrings to be separated. > > 4. One rather large area (at least 5" x 5") for clunky bracelets or > necklaces. > > 5. If possible, it would be great if you could lift up the top, then unfold > two side trays, which could be for the small sections. > > 6 It would probably have to be lined in some way, felt or synthetic velvet > so the jewelry wouldn't scratch. > > One note: Women tend to really like little "secret" compartments or niches. > It adds to the charm of the box, and distinguishes it from others. > > Mary > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mike Savad > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 1999 10:46 AM > Subject: jewelry boxes > > > this is sort of a survey: - a new thread if anything else. > > > > i've been making boxes for quite some time. and i can only guess as to > > what can go inside of them. i don't know too many people with jewelry. > > > > what i need to know is what kind of jewelry do you put in a jewelry box, > > glass, wood, etc? > > > > rings? rings in boxes, bracelets, necklaces, other? it would be nice to > > know. this way i can redesign trays, drawers, etc. > > > > are there any features you would like to see in a box? eg., hooks, built > > in mirrors, more trays, drawers, etc. > > > > are there any features that you never use, or find cumbersome and why? > > > > and are there any features that you like best - eg., has the most space, > > built in things in the doors, a hidden drawer, a unique feature? > > > > > > ---Mike Savad > > > > -- > > Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos > > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > > 9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making > > your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are > > also a lot of new Sky City pictures. > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass so far most of my trays have a maximun size of about 1-1/4" though the height is usually about 1". i'm not sure how effective it would be if it were say a 1/2" tall - i can stick a few trays in that space. i've thought about trying to make the tackle box type lid. but it would tricky and delicate. hidden things i've thought of is: -having a removable tray with a lidded box in the center. -a removable pocket mirror, hidden somewhere. doors are good, but delicate, i've been thinking cubbies, with the door resting on the table when open. or lids that open like an upside down garage door. or an area for perfume... it get's tricky after a while. i've seen tiny cup hooks inside of large wooden boxes - does anyone use them? are they easy to get at? ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are also a lot of new Sky City pictures. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 16 17:35:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:31:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: portable glass shop Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:24:42 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep16.92442.0> References: <<1999Sep17.123034.0>> Organization: weaver51@teleport.com Precedence: bulk because the panels are NOT prescribed for specifically marked angles by Morton, but rather trapezoids, I do NOT have to play with the angles. Math I have to do, and then come out close on the grid. For bands around lamps, also not an angle they pre-set, but one I have to determine. For repetitive, accurate and fast SRTAIGHT LINE cutting, I would NEVER be without it! enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com Elaine and Howard best lamps on the "net": http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 16 17:53:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:07:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mediaone.net!embee From: "Mary" To: , Subject: Re: portable glass shop Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:17:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep16.151741.0> References: <<1999Sep17.123034.0>> Precedence: bulk Debbie, I use the Quick Angle Kit occasionally. Sometimes, though, I'm not in the mood to set it up and fiddle around with it, so I just draw it myself. Mary, grateful Floyd didn't care for North Florida ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 16 18:35:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:55:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: moswoodmountainltd.com!Pam From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Tami Siddens Hired As New Director of Marketing Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:26:45 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep16.102645.0> Organization: MM LTD Precedence: bulk Dear Bungians, I would like to congratulate Ms. Tami Siddens on her new position with The Stained Glass Artists. We are very pleased to be working with this great professional and look forward to the exciting changes that will be happening at the SGA in the future. Congratulations Tami!! Pam (whose off to see the great E in Seattle tomorrow and a few other bungians)! -- Ms. Pamela Burns-Tappan Moswood Mountain Ltd. http://www.moswoodmountainltd.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 16 19:35:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:12:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mediaone.net!embee From: "Mary" To: "Mike Savad" , "Bungi" Subject: Re: jewelry boxes Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:51:27 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep16.175127.0> References: <<1999Sep16.152053.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi, Mike... I'll give you my opinion on each one: > so far most of my trays have a maximun size of about 1-1/4" though the > height is usually about 1". i'm not sure how effective it would be if it > were say a 1/2" tall - i can stick a few trays in that space. 1/2" tall would be fine for the most part, but since some earrings rings have large stones or decorations, you will definitely need a few that are deeper. 1" should suffice. > > -having a removable tray with a lidded box in the center. > -a removable pocket mirror, hidden somewhere. I think the removable tray would be very nice, though I'm not so sure a mirror is necessary. If there were to be one, it needs to be placed someplace where the person can view themselves without having to hold it. A mirror comes in handy for checking out earrings, necklaces, etc. > > doors are good, but delicate, i've been thinking cubbies, with the door > resting on the table when open. Sounds great, and different from most boxes I've seen. > or an area for perfume... I doubt most women would actually store their perfume there, so I wouldn't spend too much time on it, but on the other hand it IS a good selling feature, if only for the fact that it's novel, and probably unique to your box. I might advertise it as a perfume holder or possibly an aromatherapy vial. > > i've seen tiny cup hooks inside of large wooden boxes - does anyone use > them? are they easy to get at? > Cup hooks are terrific for hanging necklaces so that they don't get tangled. I think you've got a good handle on it, Mike. Just make it unique and intricate, so that it stands out from the rest. Good luck! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 16 22:18:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:39:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pro-ns.net!jdahlin From: "J. Dahlin" To: Shirley Balloch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: ceramic soldering guns Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:31:27 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep16.173127.0> References: <<1999Sep13.64713.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi Shirley: I have had one of the ceramic soldering irons for about seven years and have been very satisfied with it. I recently bought a second one to have on hand in case my old one goes, and also since I do most of my work at our lake home, I will be able to keep one soldering iron in both places rather than haul them back and forth all summer. I also noted that Robert Odde purchased one of them at Glass Visions and he too was buying it as a spare. He said he uses that kind regularly. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 17 07:10:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 06:13:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ceps.nasm.edu!jellison From: PJ Jellison To: Mike Savad , Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: jewelry boxes Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:13:59 -0400 Message-ID: <37E23E94.1861CA89@ceps.nasm.edu> References: <<1999Sep16.175127.0>> Organization: Smithsonian Institution Precedence: bulk I don't know whether there's much of a market for it, but what I've always longed for as a jewelry collector is a way to display my nicest pieces. The stuff is so pretty (I collect copper art jewelry) that when I'm not wearing it I'd still like to look at it. I've tried the little glass vitrines that you hang on the wall, but all they have is shelves so you have to go to a lot of work mounting each piece so it will show (and re-doing it each time I remove or replace a piece). It would be really neat to have a glass case with a variety of hooks, pegs, platforms and/or shelves to display different pieces. Even a little light inside would be nice. Come to think of it, such a thing would work for all kinds of collectibles, not just jewelry. Cheers, PJ Jellison ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 17 09:34:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:42:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: surferie.net!efish From: "Cybermom" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Newbie Question Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:40:38 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep17.74038.0> Precedence: bulk I have been "lurking" on bungi for almost a year.I am coming out for a quick question. I recently took a class on lampworking, but it turned out that the teacher only knows marbles. I worked for a goldsmith for 6 years ( am used to "playing with fire") and took the class intending to learn beadmaking( I also talked my former boss...now, good friend,...into taking the class with me). We were both facinated with the art, and actually made several marbles(which turned out fine). We would like to try beadmaking and were wondering if someone could recommend a "How-To" book? Or are we being crazy to think that we can teach ourselves this? The "Marble Man" said that beads were easier than marbles. Is this so? I have only been doing stained glass for a little over a year and have learned much of what I know from this group. I respect your opinions. TIA for any help you can give me. Edie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 17 11:28:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:02:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: PJ Jellison Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: jewelry boxes Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:59:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep17.85955.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by PJ Jellison >I don't know whether there's much of a market for it, but what I've always longed for as a jewelry collector is a way to display my nicest pieces. The stuff is so pretty (I collect copper art jewelry) that when I'm not = wearing it I'd still like to look at it.< Yes, something lovely to hang next to an oil painting in the living room.... Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 17 18:31:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 18:02:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: wolf.net!dimitrovich From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" To: Subject: Light Box Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:35:52 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep17.163552.0> Precedence: bulk Does anyone know of a site on the Internet that gives detailed plans for building a light box? I would like to build a nice one but do not know the dimensions, material used on the top surface, type of wood (frame) used, sizes, type of light, where to place the light, and how to mount it, etc. Any info will be greatly appreciated. I hope to go to Home Depot tomorrow (Saturday) and purchase the materials so I can build it tomorrow. Thanks. Pamela ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 17 19:58:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:35:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!ACASADO From: ACASADO@webtv.net (Ali Casado) To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Slumping edges Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:34:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep17.183429.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all, How can I get around not having rounded edges on my slumping projects? Since slumping temps. are lower than fusing, do I have to full fuse (even one layer of glass) in order to have fully rounded edges and then slump the piece? Is there another way to have rounded edges without 2 firings? Hope to hear from you soon. Ali =) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 17 21:29:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:44:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Ali Casado" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Slumping edges Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:43:18 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep17.134318.0> Precedence: bulk >>How can I get around not having rounded edges on my slumping projects?<< A cut edge will not round at normal slumping temperatures of 1100-1200'F. Spray A seems to help but it is still necessary to go to 1375'F or above to get a nice fire rounded edge. It is possible to fuse/edge round the glass, reduce the heat and transfer the hot glass to a slumping mold. To do this you will need adequate room in the kiln and Zentex gloves. Bob in SOCAL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 18 06:09:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 05:28:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: hotmail.com!mrsdesigns From: "Michele Spruill" To: one.net!kleeman@daver.bungi.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Subject: Re: portable glass shop Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 05:26:32 PDT Message-ID: <1999Sep18.122632.0> Precedence: bulk This is a pretty funny question to me, as I've been unhappy with how I do this...I use the quick angle kit, and then I don't trust it. I check with a protractor and adjust to accuracy! I have tried all the things you have, but plan to go to a Morton demonstration as soon as I can, since I feel I have an under-utilized tool. Michele >From: one.net!kleeman@daver.bungi.com >To: glass@bungi.com >Subject: portable glass shop >Date: Thu Sep 16 14:52:34 1999 > >i have a question for those of you that use the portable glass shop by >morton ... >do you set up the angles using the quick angle kit, or do you do the math, >or do you lay the pattern down on the board ? i have tried it each way, >but would like to know what the majority of you do .... > >okay, all you lurkers, outta the wood work .... give me an answer he ... >you >can answer me privately if you would like... kleeman@one.net > >thanx ... have a GREAT evening >debbie > >debbie taylor >kleeman@one.net >http://www.taylordexpressions.com >your complete stained glass supply source >1-888-488-9616 > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 18 07:12:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 06:37:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: jewelry boxes Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:32:45 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep18.133245.0> Precedence: bulk Mike Savad's enquiring mind wants to know: >what kind of jewelry do you put in a jewelry box Necklaces are the only jewelry I wear, so I vote for a tall box with doors and several of those rotating tie-rack things for chains, and a drawer or two or three with several 3" square compartments for coiling up "strung" necklaces - I don't store those hanging up, because I don't want their strings stretching from the weight. The hanging-stuff compartment needs to be at least 15" high, because I have several "big clunky" pendants on 24" chains. I like Bob Du's "medicine cabinet" idea! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 18 07:43:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 07:05:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: portable glass shop (and NG Ugly Boy Floyd) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:05:27 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep18.14527.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 9/18/99 9:11:00 AM, mrsdesigns@hotmail.com writes: >I use the quick angle kit, and then I don't trust it. I check with a >protractor and adjust to accuracy! I'm so relieved to know I'm not the only paranoid one in the bunch =8-O BTW, we survived the himmicane, got 10" of rain but not a lot of wind, had a little water in the house and no electricity on Thursday night, but it could have been much worse......... Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 18 09:14:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 08:30:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: jewelry boxes Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:29:58 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep18.72958.0> References: <<1999Sep18.133245.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote: > > Mike Savad's enquiring mind wants to know: > > >what kind of jewelry do you put in a jewelry box > > Necklaces are the only jewelry I wear, so I vote for a tall box with doors > and several of those rotating tie-rack things for chains, and a drawer or two > or three with several 3" square compartments for coiling up "strung" > necklaces - I don't store those hanging up, because I don't want their > strings stretching from the weight. > > The hanging-stuff compartment needs to be at least 15" high, because I have > several "big clunky" pendants on 24" chains. I like Bob Du's "medicine > cabinet" idea! > > Sparks > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass that would be a pretty tall box, but i think i can think of ideas for it... mainly when i make a box, i make it for myself. because i store junk or nothing at all in it. but now i can figure out other types of boxes to make... btw, about how wide would a necklace holder be if it was 1 rack wide? or what whould be the most narrow it could be? nimble fingers, etc. as a side question - (for anyone) - what feature do you use most in a box: trays - with or without dividers drawers - same as above ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are also a lot of new Sky City pictures. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 18 10:14:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:43:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: jewelry boxes Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:39:42 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep18.23942.0> Precedence: bulk >>The hanging-stuff compartment needs to be at least 15" high, because I have several "big clunky" pendants on 24" chains. I like Bob Du's "medicine cabinet" idea! Sparks<< Now here's a girl that not only wears chains around her neck but actually agrees with me! Let the jewelry medicine cabinet have a set of doors that open in the middle and several draws across the bottom. Bob in SOCAL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 18 17:24:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 16:31:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Rickola From: Rickola@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Light Box ideas Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 19:29:53 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep18.232953.0> Precedence: bulk Here are some options. http://gracefulbee.com/tipsheet/tip001.html Some good, some not-so-good. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 18 20:56:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:28:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary From: Hilary To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: NG:Missing Elisabeth Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:24:13 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep18.192413.0> Precedence: bulk I don't know about the rest of you, and even though I was at Meredith as part of the E-Tour, and even though I enjoyed every moment and wished it was a week and not two days, I am not liking the E-tour right now. Elisabeth has been too silent for too long and it is just not part of her personality to be this silent...and it is not part of mine to spend this much time not totally agreeing with every word or thinking that she has just come out with drivel. Am I alone here or is anyone else having Elisabeth withdrawal? When's this blasted tour over? Sigh, Hilary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 18 23:19:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:07:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!ACASADO From: ACASADO@webtv.net (Ali Casado) To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Mica flakes Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 02:05:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep18.22549.0> Precedence: bulk I just made a test with mica flakes (which I never used before). I used a scrap piece of Spectrum black opal water glass as the base, I sprinkled some turquoise flakes and placed a piece of clear Bullseye glass on top. The second piece, did the same thing except I used silver/gold flakes. I full fused the 2 pieces at the same time (Mfr. said flakes can be full fused). The one with the turquoise flakes completely lost its color and you could feel the texture of it (like I never put the clear glass over it). The other piece (with the gold/silver flakes) came out fine . Did not lose color and you only felt the smoothness of the clear glass over it. Has anyone worked with the mica flakes. If so, what was he outcome? Ali =) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 19 01:24:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 01:01:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: Lee Boe To: Hilary , glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG:Missing Elisabeth Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 03:28:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep18.232836.0> References: <<1999Sep18.192413.0>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi Hilary, Lee boe here, Elisabeth is in Seattle now, and soon (Monday night) will be winging her way toward Florida. The big Hurricane ( Floyd) was smart enough to get out of the way of the 'Wicked Viking" I am very much looking forward to a couple of personal days with her, before I get into surgery for my foot. ( The HMO has dinked around for 3 months with this approval, that condition, Lack of the best surgeon for this being 'on the preferred list' and on and on.) In the meantime, I am a complete grouch, irritable with constant pain, and generally the only thing I can look forward to is this visit. By the time I get approval, I may want to get out of this life. Ah the joys of being disabled, on a social security disability pension, and scraping by month after month. Medicare is better than nothing, but not much. She should be 'chiming' in from Cheryl's, sometime this weekend. I guess this visit is all that has kept me from going crazy this summer ( I mean more than normal). Sorry for the digression, I am up in the middle of the night, waiting for meds to kick in. I know several on this list and on the hotglass list are in the same, or worse, than I am. Carol Swan is having a go round with ostio - arthritis, in her hip and knee. She probably needs new joints, and hip replacement. So about the time I feel sad and sorry for my self, I slap me up along side the head, and remind me that others are going through the same or> glass@bungi.com worse too. Good luck Lee Hilary wrote: > > I don't know about the rest of you, and even though I was at Meredith as > part of the E-Tour, and even though I enjoyed every moment and wished it > was a week and not two days, I am not liking the E-tour right now. > Elisabeth has been too silent for too long and it is just not part of > her personality to be this silent...and it is not part of mine to spend > this much time not totally agreeing with every word or thinking that she > has just come out with drivel. > > Am I alone here or is anyone else having Elisabeth withdrawal? > > When's this blasted tour over? > > Sigh, > Hilary > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 19 02:01:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 01:13:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: kermode.net!sherdana From: sherry To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Jewelry box Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 00:29:04 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep18.17294.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Mike: I realize you want to know what should be put into boxes for compartment size and complexity but instead I thought that I would send you a vision of my idea of a jewelry box and the reason behind it. I have have a pearl necklace that I would like to display when not wearing it. I have bought a suction cup ornaments that I have attached to my bathroom mirror and draped it around that. It looked very elegant. However one day I came in to find that the suction cup let go and it and my necklace fell into the sink. It broke one of the enamel pearl beads. What I intend to do sometime is build a jewelry box for my counter and have a oyster shell inside the box, and line with a bit of cotton so the necklace can lay in it. My idea is to use the wavy parts of water glass to make the stained glass shell. I also want to put a couple of stand-up fish in it (I haven't decided if I want them in the front of the box or loose) and build them in such a way that one has a hollow body and a screen insert in the hollow area to hold earrings on posts. The other fish will have a hollowed area but with 1/8" rods to hold the hook type earrings. I've also been thinking of completing the aquarium effect by making the back look like seaweed. Along the back of the seaweed scene I would solder in cup hooks so that the rest of my necklaces can be folded in half and draped down into the box, this also takes care of rings. I have been thinking about putting the fish that hold the earrings on the front panel of the box and just have the oyster shell lose inside. Please feel free to input Sherry from Terrace, BC Canada ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 19 08:05:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 07:52:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: sherry Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Jewelry box Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:52:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep19.65221.0> References: <<1999Sep18.17294.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk sherry wrote: > > Hi Mike: > > I realize you want to know what should be put into boxes for compartment > size and complexity but instead I thought that I would send you a vision > of my idea of a jewelry box and the reason behind it. > > I have have a pearl necklace that I would like to display when not > wearing it. I have bought a suction cup ornaments that I have attached > to my bathroom mirror and draped it around that. It looked very > elegant. However one day I came in to find that the suction cup let go > and it and my necklace fell into the sink. It broke one of the enamel > pearl beads. What I intend to do sometime is build a jewelry box for my > counter and have a oyster shell inside the box, and line with a bit of > cotton so the necklace can lay in it. > > My idea is to use the wavy parts of water glass to make the stained > glass shell. I also want to put a couple of stand-up fish > in it (I haven't decided if I want them in the front of the box or > loose) and build them in such a way that one has a hollow body and a > screen insert in the hollow area to hold earrings on posts. The other > fish will have a hollowed area but with 1/8" rods to hold the hook type > earrings. I've also been thinking of completing the aquarium effect by > making the back look like seaweed. Along the back of the seaweed scene > I would solder in cup hooks so that the rest of my necklaces can be > folded in half and draped down into the box, this also takes care of > rings. I have been thinking about putting the fish that hold the > earrings on the front panel of the box and just have the oyster shell > lose inside. > > Please feel free to input > > Sherry from Terrace, BC Canada > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass another idea is to make a large flat box. make it a little larger then the necklace is. the box should be square. make the top half about 1" tall. in the center, make a circle, and put a lid on it. that lid can have a sand dollar, or some other element in it. make the main lid with a large hole in it (just large enough to go over the small box in the middle. the middle box can be about 1/4-3/8" higher then the normal box. the small boc in the middle can hold onto the earrings. and the main box can hold the displayed pearls. the inside of the mainl box should either be flocked, or covered in black velvet. the main lid should be in the clear family, preferable a GNA or FNA clear. the main lid should be copper, the rest, maybe black. below the main comp, there should be a drawer, with dividers. so at the end, you have the shell in the lid, a display for the necklace, and an area for other things at the bottom. if i were making this specalized box, that's probably how i'd do it. now if i had to price it... that would be harder, my only weak point. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are also a lot of new Sky City pictures. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 19 09:46:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:54:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: moswoodmountainltd.com!Pam From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Just Returned From Seattle and the gracious E! Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:50:14 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep19.15014.0> Organization: MM LTD Precedence: bulk Hello all! Had to cut my Seattle trip short due to my upcoming class schedule. So as I write the folks are just arriving at Northwest Art Glass where they are getting ready to finish their panels. 2 participants are doing panels in Sunderland glass or better known as the old Hartley Wood. And let me tell you the Sunderland is very, very nice glass. Beautiful in color, easy to cut and extremely expensive. Terry Oakes is doing his panel in some Fremont that is gorgeous. Lynn, an employee of Northwest is doing her whole panel in Sunderland using clear, Rose Amber and gold and green amber accents. Cheryl is doing a lovely Iris panel using St. Just and a bit of Kokomo and I can't remember what else she had in there :) And Delores has a fabulous design in bevels, antique Ruby Rondels from England, clear glass and a really cool jewel. Elisabeth, of course, is teaching tips, tricks and everything is going well and the participants are having a great time. I took alot of pictures and hope to get them developed very soon. Elisabeth is a fine teacher with tons of patients and a loving touch. Exquisite! And boy, does the wine flow in the evening! I'm sure you all of you hosts and hostesses remember that! Cheryl was the loveliest hostess I could imagine. Her home is beautiful and located in Bothell Washington. More on Chihuly and the E-Tour will be coming your way in an upcoming Common Ground Glass article to be written by Carol and I. I think I'll get over my hangover before I even start writing that! Pam P.S. Glenna could you please subscribe Pam@moswoodmountainltd.com thanks!! -- Ms. Pamela Burns-Tappan Moswood Mountain Ltd. http://www.moswoodmountainltd.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 19 10:54:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:54:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: moswoodmountainltd.com!Pam From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Just Returned From Seattle and the gracious E! Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:50:14 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep19.15014.0> Organization: MM LTD Precedence: bulk Hello all! Had to cut my Seattle trip short due to my upcoming class schedule. So as I write the folks are just arriving at Northwest Art Glass where they are getting ready to finish their panels. 2 participants are doing panels in Sunderland glass or better known as the old Hartley Wood. And let me tell you the Sunderland is very, very nice glass. Beautiful in color, easy to cut and extremely expensive. Terry Oakes is doing his panel in some Fremont that is gorgeous. Lynn, an employee of Northwest is doing her whole panel in Sunderland using clear, Rose Amber and gold and green amber accents. Cheryl is doing a lovely Iris panel using St. Just and a bit of Kokomo and I can't remember what else she had in there :) And Delores has a fabulous design in bevels, antique Ruby Rondels from England, clear glass and a really cool jewel. Elisabeth, of course, is teaching tips, tricks and everything is going well and the participants are having a great time. I took alot of pictures and hope to get them developed very soon. Elisabeth is a fine teacher with tons of patients and a loving touch. Exquisite! And boy, does the wine flow in the evening! I'm sure you all of you hosts and hostesses remember that! Cheryl was the loveliest hostess I could imagine. Her home is beautiful and located in Bothell Washington. More on Chihuly and the E-Tour will be coming your way in an upcoming Common Ground Glass article to be written by Carol and I. I think I'll get over my hangover before I even start writing that! Pam P.S. Glenna could you please subscribe Pam@moswoodmountainltd.com thanks!! -- Ms. Pamela Burns-Tappan Moswood Mountain Ltd. http://www.moswoodmountainltd.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 19 13:07:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:47:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Pamela Burns-Tappan Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Just Returned From Seattle and the gracious E! Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:46:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep19.114616.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Pamela Burns-Tappan >Elisabeth is a fine teacher with tons of patients < Is this a Freudian slip?? LOL> Best, Dani ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 19 23:14:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:18:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tir.com!jazzykid From: "jazzykid" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Veteran Bungians Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 00:30:02 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep19.20302.0> Precedence: bulk I am helping to index our huge archives with Chris and the others and am editing "The Stepping Stone" saga. PJ's friend was sending her mosaic method of stepping stones to all who asked. I had a copy but that computer has come and gone. PJ are you back from vacation yet? Does anyone still have a copy that they could send to me? If I remember correctly, they were excellent explicit instructions. So, if you could please check your files? It was an attachment to email. I don't remember the subject line...but stepping stones or mosaic stepping stones I would guess. Thanks Jill ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 20 05:53:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 04:58:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cs.com!Rcollin1 From: Rcollin1@cs.com To: jazzykid@tir.com, Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Veteran Bungians Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 07:55:54 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep20.115554.0> Precedence: bulk I'm new to this list and would also like a copy about Step Stones if anyone can dig it up Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 20 07:10:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:45:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Stepping Stone advice from old bungi posting Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:44:35 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990920144435.007ac620@mailhost.stainedglass.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Is this the posting you are looking for? It will need editing as the line breaks are in odd places. EliZabeth in Bournemouth http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ============================= >From: Shirley Balloch >To: glass@bungi.com >Subject: Re: First Stepping Stone need advice >Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 08:55:32 -0800 >Organization: Maiden Concepts > >I pour my own. I prefer that. You have more control and it is less >expensive. >I have never used diamondcrete, but have seen the finninshed product and >it looks very nice. >First off. Concrete is a mix of cement, sand, gravel. You can buy >pre-mix or ready mix(in my area right now)in 90lb bags for $2.79. >90lbs. will make 3 fouteen inch dia./2 inch thich stones. Pre-mix is >notoriously chinzy with the cement. So it wouldn't hurt to reinforce it >with some cement called Portland Type II & III. 48 oz. of it to a bag >of cement is a pretty good mixture. If you use too much, then the top >of your stone will act like clay and it is hard to smooth out. >Also don't use chicken wire to reinforce your stone. First off; a piece >of concrete that small, really does not need it. But I like to use a >product called fiber mesh. You buy it at your local ready mix(where the >cement trucks come from)retailer. It comes in 8-14 oz bags. It looks >like thick dirty angel hair that you decorate at christmas with. It is >10 times stronger than chicken wire, and six times cheaper. One 14 oz >bag will make 40 14"dia./2" deep stones. The cost is around $5 a bag >and all you do it simply throw in a handful as you mix your concrete. >I mix my concrete in a small plastic wheel barrow. I use a kids >shovel(real wooden handle, metal shovel)to mix with. >Try a small stone until you get the feel of working in concrete. >Concrete is like cooking. The mixture should feel like molded cookie >dough or breaded hamburger that you are going to make meatballs with. >Like making pastry, a little water goes a long way. And like fudge. >Never on a rainy day. >Drying time depends on the weather. I live on the oregon coast and I >bring mine in the house to dry. If you have them in 72degrees, 14" dia. >will dry in 12 hours. Smaller ones, say, 8" dia. will dry in 9 hours. >Or you can leave them for 3 days. But once you have taken them out, then >put them on a couple of 2X4's so the air can get to all sides. >Do not confuse dry with cure. Concrete does dry by evaporation but it >is cured because of a chemical reaction. And that takes 30 days. So >you really should not plant them for at least 30 days. >When you do plant them. This is very important. Plant them on 1 1/2 >inches of clean sand. You can't run down to the beach and get some >sand. Concrete has been known to chemically react with the salt in the >sand. Don't ask me what kind of reaction, I have only read that it can >happen. You don't want any debris in your sand, because it can act like >a fulcrum and break the stone over time. Best results would be to plant >the stone flush with the ground. If you plant it correctly, you can >drive on them. I would love to see someone do a driveway with these. >And as for molds. Anything plastic will work. So go down to your local >2nd time around and look for tupperware. Loaf pans make great bricks. >Cake pans are great 8" rounds. I use plastic potted plant drip catcher. >The 16" dia. ones make perfect 14" dia. stones. The plastic is a little >soft, so put it on a board that is large enough to support the concrete >filled mold and still light enough for you to carry. Then carry the >board not the filled mold. You can also make your own mold from wood. >And if you want something unique, you can use plastic molds sold in kids >beach toy kits, or cake or jello molds. >Be sure you do this on a level surface. Someplace that is easy to clean >up. Wear clothes you never plan to wear again. And protect your hands. >And be prepared to get wet. Clean up will require a hose with a power >nozzle. And I have never figured out how not to spray myself during this >process! Concrete can cause burns. So if you get it on your skin wash >it off immediatley. Your hands will tolerate it better than other parts >of your body. I use cheap garden gloves, the ones that have the little >plastic bumps on the palm side. And I wear latex gloves inside those. >Concrete does not stick to plastic, if you clean up right away, your >mold will never look like you have used it. And those bumpy gloves help >get the concrete off. >There is also a recipe called the 1-2-3 method. I believe it means one >part cement to 2 parts sand to 3 parts water. But I would not swear to >it. If you use sandblasting sand, you can get a very nice looking >stone. But to me the other way is cheaper and the stone is under the >ground so what difference does it make? >Good Luck and if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. >Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 20 09:39:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:10:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne Gunn To: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Stepping Stone advice from old bungi posting Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:28:15 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep20.42815.0> References: <<3.0.5.32.19990920144435.007ac620@mailhost.stainedglass.co.uk>> Precedence: bulk > >There is also a recipe called the 1-2-3 method. I believe it means one > >part cement to 2 parts sand to 3 parts water. But I would not swear to > >it. If you use sandblasting sand, you can get a very nice looking > >stone. But to me the other way is cheaper and the stone is under the > >ground so what difference does it make? > >Good Luck and if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. > >Shirley B The numbers are backwards...you use 3 parts sand to one part cement. Water to consistancy you want/need. That's an important ratio. Suzanne -- Suzanne ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Choosing is only difficult for those with imagination ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 20 13:13:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:03:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!WoodsViewArt From: WoodsViewArt@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: foil/solder of glass to hold water. Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:00:55 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep20.20055.0> Precedence: bulk Does anyone know how to use foil/solder or other source to attach beveled glass which will hold water and not leak? I would like to know for a project that I am working on. WoodsViewArt@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 20 13:38:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:44:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: email.msn.com!bird_cage From: "Doug Parrott" To: "Hilary" , Subject: Re: NG:Missing Elisabeth Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:48:56 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep20.34856.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all...we've been keeping Elisabeth so BUSY that she hasn't had time to get online and post. She spent 3 days up in Canada with me, then the Seattle workshop just ended last night. As we speak, she's in the air winging her way towards Florida. She'll be jet lagged (and more) when she gets there...you know what that means if you've met her!!! She'll be in Florida for a week or so so maybe she'll get back on line then...Cheryl is writing a message about the Seattle workshop, so stay tuned. Chihuly studios also gave her a tour of their facilities which was mindboggling. See you all later. Carol Swann (on Cheryl Parrott's machine) -----Original Message----- From: Hilary To: glass@bungi.com Date: Saturday, September 18, 1999 9:03 PM Subject: NG:Missing Elisabeth >I don't know about the rest of you, and even though I was at Meredith as >part of the E-Tour, and even though I enjoyed every moment and wished it >was a week and not two days, I am not liking the E-tour right now. >Elisabeth has been too silent for too long and it is just not part of >her personality to be this silent...and it is not part of mine to spend >this much time not totally agreeing with every word or thinking that she >has just come out with drivel. > >Am I alone here or is anyone else having Elisabeth withdrawal? > >When's this blasted tour over? > >Sigh, >Hilary >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 20 14:14:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:39:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Just Returned From Seattle and the gracious E! Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:31:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep20.123155.0> References: <<1999Sep19.114616.0>> Precedence: bulk Dani Greer wrote: > Message text written by Pamela Burns-Tappan > >Elisabeth is a fine > teacher with tons of patients < > > Is this a Freudian slip?? LOL> > > Best, > > Dani I doubt it. We've been wondering about the funereals of those students who didn't survive the classes! Dorothy (who had a very good craft fair this weekend and has to work insanely this week for the next.) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 20 14:33:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:53:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: email.msn.com!bird_cage From: "Doug Parrott" To: Subject: Last leg of e-tour Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:55:41 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep20.65541.0> Precedence: bulk Florida, get ready the queen of glass is in route your way. It has only been 6 hours since E departed for Florida with hopefully only one brief change of planes in St Louis. I have to say I am missing her already. I knew what a fantastic artist E is but I had absolutely no idea what a "nut" she is!!! We have been up quite late every night she has been here laughing and sharing about glass and life. We haven't had more than five hours a sleep a night. Last night it was 3 1/2 hours. After a long day teaching at the workshop we came home and worked on glass. At midnight she decided to walk up to the store to get a little something to drink. I live in Edmonds Washington. A small suburb of Seattle. I am in an urban area. Not necessarily the safest for walking alone in the middle of the night especially for a woman. There now is one car lot just a few blocks from my house that is missing a bouquet of balloons. Miss E decided I needed the balloons much more that the car lot. So, she burned the string with her cigarette and proceeded on down a major highway at midnight, walking all alone, to deliver these balloons. I don't think I ever laughed so hard as I did when I saw her walk into my house. E I love you!!! I wish I had the ability to express to all you bungie people that were not able to spend time with E what a wonderful, passionate, knowledgeable, loving, full of life person she is. After spending a weekend with her, there is no way that you could come away without growing in imagination, feeling, and passion for glass and life along with being a better glass craftsperson and artist. E you are wonderful and I am going to miss you so much. If it is not too late to sign up for the last workshop I encourage you to stop what you are doing and get there. You will learn so much and appreciate the art of stained glass after spending the two days with her. I am absolutely exhausted. I feel so very fortunate in having this time with E and Carol Swann and Pam Burns-Tappan. This was a true gift to me. Carol is so inspiring with her intuitive abilities and transferring it into her art. There are not enough words to explain the amount of energy I have received from these women. Pam is also so full of energy and love. Pam I am so very happy we were able to finally get together. I was also fortunate in getting to know Delores and Terry who also took the class. It was great to meet them and see what they are doing. Also, for anyone interested in the flux that E uses, you can get that through Jax Stained Glass in Redmond WA through Terry Owens shop. Terry is one of fellow bungians . Terry, can you post your e-mail address. What a great week this has been. The Dale Chihuly tour was magnificent. The studio treated E with the respect that she deserves. They were very gracious to us. We were so fortunate to be able to see how his work comes together. For those of us that were involved in the Seattle link of the e-tour our only regret is that the glass artist community, which this area is known for,didn't come out and welcome E. With the exception of the Chihuly tour she was not able to see all that this area has to offer for glass artists. For that I am sorry and very disappointed. For Elisabeth, Pam, Carol, Lynn, Delores and Terry- how is the cement going!!!! (inside joke!!!) Cheryl Parrott The Glass Parrott Edmonds WA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 20 14:49:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:10:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: wolf.net!dimitrovich From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" To: Subject: Stained Glass Clip Art Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:46:01 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep20.12461.0> Precedence: bulk Does anyone know of a site that has nice stained glass clip art images? Thanks, Pamela ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 20 15:16:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:11:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: xtra.co.nz!TMacnicol From: Tina Booth To: Glass List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Glass Magic software Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:17:57 +1200 Message-ID: <1999Sep21.211757.0> References: <<37E63D2F.62C59AE1@massed.net>> Precedence: bulk Hi Elaine I managed to dig up 5 people so far. The demo is very limited the address again is...http://users.megasoftnet.com/~mglass or try http://www.123.net/~mglass/ Dick Reardon's email was microglass@juno.com but now is listed as mglass@megasoftnet.com Let me know how it works out. Tina Elaine wrote: > Hi Tina...Did anything ever happen with this? I couldn't find a demo > to download. I emailed them about it, but they never replied. Could > you send me the URL for the download of the demo version please? > Thanks, Elaine wmagdycz@massed.net > > Elaine wrote: > > > > Hi Tina...I would definitely be interested for $16. Please let me know > > if this turns into a go. Thanks, Elaine > > > > Tina Booth wrote: > > > > > > > I did find one program that has 3-d capabilities. Glass Magic. It has a very > > > > limited demo to download. URL http://users.megasoftnet.com/~mglass I e-mailed > > > > Micro Glass about it and Dick Reardon mailed back and said if I bought 10 or > > > > more copies I could get them for $16 US each (maybe he saw an opening in New > > > > Zealand?) but when I enquired at Delphi they were charing US$136.95! that's a > > > > big difference. > > > > > > > May as well try and find some others.. Layla > > > > > > If anyone else is interested let me know.... > > > > > > -Tina Booth- > > > -Knowledge is true opinion- > > > -Plato- > > > > > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 20 15:20:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:12:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: xtra.co.nz!TMacnicol From: Tina Booth To: Glass List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Veteran Bungians Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:03:36 +1200 Message-ID: <1999Sep21.21336.0> References: <<1999Sep20.115554.0>> Precedence: bulk Please send me a of stepping stones too. Thanks -- -Tina Booth- -Knowledge is true opinion- -Plato- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 20 15:40:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:18:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: email.msn.com!bird_cage From: "Doug Parrott" To: Subject: Flux at Jax's Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:20:35 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep20.72035.0> Precedence: bulk it is Terry Oakes not Owens at Jax's Stained Glass in Bellevue Wa that has the flux which Elisabeth uses. Sorry Terry. Cheryl ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 20 15:45:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:20:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: email.msn.com!bird_cage From: "Doug Parrott" To: Subject: e-tour no grinders. Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:08:12 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep20.7812.0> Precedence: bulk There was so much that I learned this weekend. One of the biggest was grozing. it was great getting through the workshop without a grinder. No longer will my grinder be a key tool for me. It will be helpful from time to time, but it is not a necessary tool. you can get along with out it and still produce beautiful work, including with copper-foil. I say this as someone who specializes in copperfoil with small 3-d pieces. I am a bit of a perfectionist with my glass with a I to detail and I am still saying that you do not need a grinder for your everyday use with everything you do. There is a time and place for it but not for every cut. I did not feel this way a week ago. I am now totally convinced. Just like E and Dani and all the others say, it is in the cutting. As E says your pattern is your Bible you live by it, you cut by it. don't change it. If you work on your cutting, learn to groze you won't need the grinder for every day useage. In learning to cut properly and groze and look at the pattern as it is the "bible" as e says I have also gained a lot of confidence in my abilities. For me the grinder has really been a crutch keeping me from gaining confidence in my abilities. Folks, give the grinder up and trust yourself. E and Carol, thanks again for the gift of spreading all your knowledge and your passion with me. Cheryl ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 20 16:14:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:05:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: capecod.net!jaugusta From: Joseph Augusta To: Pamela Dimitrovich Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Stained Glass Clip Art Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:50:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep20.13503.0> References: <<1999Sep20.12461.0>> Precedence: bulk Pamela Dimitrovich wrote: > Does anyone know of a site that has nice stained glass clip art images? > Thanks, > Pamela > Try this: go to Alta Vista's image search and type in +stained +glass no space between + stained then 1 space then +glass with no space If you don't find anything you like try the same search elsewhere like Webcrawler, Metafinder, Yahoo etc---type it exactly as above. (it's a trick!) Best wishes, Joseph ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 20 17:17:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:37:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!christkaiser From: Chris Kaiser To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Bungi Archive Project Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:46:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep20.9464.0> Precedence: bulk __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 20 17:42:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:02:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!christkaiser From: Chris Kaiser To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Bungi Archive Project #2 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:10:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep20.101025.0> Precedence: bulk Sorry about that empty post, I zigged when I should have zagged =P Anyway, I wanted to update everyone regarding the Bungi Archive Project. Since my initial post about a month or so ago, 13 other gluttons for punishment have volunteered their time and expertise to this project. We spent quite a bit of time planning and refining our plans before we actually started editing to cut down on snafus, and so far it has been great! Everyone had valuable input and was very forthcoming with ideas and questions. We have been doing the actual nitty gritty editing for a little less than a week now, and realistically will be at it for approx. another month. I persoanlly have worked in excess of 100 hours so far. I wanted to post the names of the brave volunteers to give them a bit of the glory they all very much deserve. =) *hearty round of applause to*: Ann Baxter Pat Jim Gonzalez Chris Kaiser Mary Barry Robin Shari Brian Sheperd Tami Siddens Steve Richard K See Bob Duchesneau Diane Manchester Jill Ok back to editing! Chris =) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 20 17:47:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:34:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: xtra.co.nz!TMacnicol From: Tina Booth To: Glass List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Glass Magic software Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:41:08 +1200 Message-ID: <1999Sep22.0418.0> References: <<003e01bf03c2$8f43fec0$652c4acf@oemcomputer>> Precedence: bulk Does anyone have suggestions as to how this could be executed? payments, mail outs etc. as I live in New Zealand it would be the longest round trip ever! Karen wrote: > Tina, > > Hi, I am mostly a lurker on Bungi these days, name is Karen. I would > like a copy of this software too. If you don't mind but I am going to > forward this to 2 other glass lists I'm on. I think you might be able to > get the total of 10 people you need to order. For $16 think it would be > worth that. Please let me know if its okay with you to send this to the > other lists. > > Thanks. > > Karen ^òò^ > giapet@softhouse.com > > Hi Elaine > > I managed to dig up 5 people so far. > The demo is very limited the address again > is...http://users.megasoftnet.com/~mglass or > try http://www.123.net/~mglass/ > Dick Reardon's email was microglass@juno.com but now is listed as > mglass@megasoftnet.com > > Let me know how it works out. > > Tina > > Elaine wrote: > > > Hi Tina...Did anything ever happen with this? I couldn't find a demo > > to download. I emailed them about it, but they never replied. Could > > you send me the URL for the download of the demo version please? > > Thanks, Elaine wmagdycz@massed.net > > > > Elaine wrote: > > > > > > Hi Tina...I would definitely be interested for $16. Please let me > know > > > if this turns into a go. Thanks, Elaine > > > > > > Tina Booth wrote: > > > > > > > > > I did find one program that has 3-d capabilities. Glass Magic. > It has a very > > > > > limited demo to download. URL > http://users.megasoftnet.com/~mglass I e-mailed > > > > > Micro Glass about it and Dick Reardon mailed back and said if I > bought 10 or > > > > > more copies I could get them for $16 US each (maybe he saw an > opening in New > > > > > Zealand?) but when I enquired at Delphi they were charing > US$136.95! that's a > > > > > big difference. > > > > > > > > > May as well try and find some others.. Layla > > > > > > > > If anyone else is interested let me know.... > > > > > > > > -Tina Booth- > > > > -Knowledge is true opinion- > > > > -Plato- > > > > > > > > -- -Tina Booth- -Knowledge is true opinion- -Plato- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 20 17:52:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:38:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us!gonzalj From: Jim Gonzalez To: Chris Kaiser Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Bungi Archive Project Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:44:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep20.164425.0> References: <<1999Sep20.9464.0>> Precedence: bulk Say what?? On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Chris Kaiser wrote: > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 20 18:36:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:00:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Tina Booth Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Glass Magic software Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:56:50 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep20.165650.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Tina Booth >I could get them for $16 US each (maybe he saw an opening in New > > > > Zealand?) but when I enquired at Delphi they were charing US$136.95!< wow, I would do a bit more research on = this first.... that's a huge difference between those two prices!! My immediate reaction is, "Why"? I would be interested in learning more... Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 20 18:59:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:21:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summitstudio From: Mike Peck To: WoodsViewArt@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: foil/solder of glass to hold water. Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:07:55 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep20.15755.0> References: <<1999Sep20.20055.0>> Organization: Summit Stained Glass (http://www.summitstudio.com) Precedence: bulk Go to a pet shop and ask for adhesive that is used to repair aquariums. I don't think it's silicone based, but sure holds glass watertight. Mike peck WoodsViewArt@aol.com wrote: > > Does anyone know how to use foil/solder or other source to attach beveled > glass which will hold water and not leak? I would like to know for a project > that I am working on. > > WoodsViewArt@aol.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 20 19:28:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:16:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: foil/solder of glass to hold water. Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:15:34 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep20.181534.0> References: <<1999Sep20.15755.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Mike Peck wrote: > > Go to a pet shop and ask for adhesive that is used to repair aquariums. > I don't think it's silicone based, but sure holds glass watertight. > > Mike peck > > WoodsViewArt@aol.com wrote: > > > > Does anyone know how to use foil/solder or other source to attach beveled > > glass which will hold water and not leak? I would like to know for a project > > that I am working on. > > > > WoodsViewArt@aol.com > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass aquarium silicone is silicone - it's just water safe. i guess plain silicone releases somwething in the water. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are also a lot of new Sky City pictures. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 20 20:59:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:51:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: xtra.co.nz!TMacnicol From: Tina Booth To: Glass List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Glass Magic software Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:59:27 +1200 Message-ID: <1999Sep22.35927.0> References: <<199909202057_MC2-859D-3A08@compuserve.com>> Precedence: bulk I will contact Dick Reardon again to confirm his offer that he made by e-mail of 10 copies for US$16 each. And let you all know the results. Dani Greer wrote: > Message text written by Tina Booth > >I could get them for $16 US each (maybe he saw an opening in New > > > > > Zealand?) but when I enquired at Delphi they were charing > US$136.95!< > > wow, I would do a bit more research on > this first.... that's a huge difference between > those two prices!! My immediate reaction is, > "Why"? I would be interested in learning more... > > Best regards, > > Dani Greer > Greer Gallery & Studios -- -Tina Booth- -Knowledge is true opinion- -Plato- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 21 05:29:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 04:36:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: massed.net!wmagdycz From: Elaine To: Tina Booth , glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Glass Magic software Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:34:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep21.33417.0> References: <<1999Sep22.35927.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi Tina...I am still interested in the Glass Magic Design software, as I said in my last email to you. I think, however, that you have the software and prices confused. In the Delphi catalog, The Glass Eye is $136.95, the Glass Magic is $29.95 and the Glass Magic upgrade is $16.95. There is a big difference in the 2 software packages. Elaine Tina Booth wrote: > > I will contact Dick Reardon again to confirm his offer that he made by > e-mail of 10 copies for US$16 each. And let you all know the results. > > Dani Greer wrote: > > > Message text written by Tina Booth > > >I could get them for $16 US each (maybe he saw an opening in New > > > > > > Zealand?) but when I enquired at Delphi they were charing > > US$136.95!< > > > > wow, I would do a bit more research on > > this first.... that's a huge difference between > > those two prices!! My immediate reaction is, > > "Why"? I would be interested in learning more... > > > > Best regards, > > > > Dani Greer > > Greer Gallery & Studios > > -- > -Tina Booth- > -Knowledge is true opinion- > -Plato- > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 21 06:39:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 05:39:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: technology21.com!lsg From: To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Re: Glass Magic Software Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:32:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep21.43248.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF040B.E2DF4E60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It appears that the full version of this software actually retails for = $29.95. Sold by Glass Crafters. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF040B.E2DF4E60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It appears that the full version of this software = actually=20 retails for $29.95. Sold by Glass Crafters.
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF040B.E2DF4E60-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 21 07:07:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 06:19:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bardstown.com!glassx From: "Glass Expressions" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: help on electroplating Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:22:30 +0800 Message-ID: <1999Sep21.162230.0> Precedence: bulk We have a two entry door and two sidelights- that we need brass plated- I've called arounf and all the larger town s close to us say they can't do brass plating on lead- can some one please enlighten me on this and why its so hard to find some one to do this We usually do the brass capped lead already made and use the gold marker to fill in the solder joints - however an employee is recovering from surgury and time is of the esssence we can do the lead much faster- should i ask for another process other than brass plating - the customer just wanted the shine of the brass capped - please! any info whould be greatly appreciated- I've tried louisville ky and lexington- they said possibly indianapolis or cincinnati- is it really this difficult to find people? thanks in advance ricky ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 21 09:13:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:37:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Kauriee From: Kauriee@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Installing windows Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:35:07 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep21.14357.0> Precedence: bulk Hello- I am a new bungian, so be gentle with me! I am having some S.G. windows installed for a church by a local flat glass shop. The original windows will remain in place, with the S.G. panels being set up and secured in the frame. The drawing that was sent to me for approval on the installation has the window being set up on several 4" sections of 1/2 " x 1/2 channel with 7" spaces in between each for venting. (The overall dimensions are 5 1/2' wide by 5' tall). My question is with the leaded glass sitting up on the 4" spacers with the 7" between each, could the window possibly not be supported enough along the 7" gap to cause damage in the future from sagging? Does there need to be a continuous piece of support along the bottom edge? The other thing is they have the molding that is going to be holding the window in, coming up exactly even with my lead, leaving no reveal line. How important is the reveal line? What could happen if there isn't one? I have already asked if they can use a smaller molding. (I am using 1/2" H-Lead for the perimiter) I hope all of this makes sense! Thank you, Kauriee ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 21 09:33:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:39:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: artglassconcepts.com!delores From: "Art Glass Concepts - Delores Taylor" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: NG E Tour Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:31:48 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep21.03148.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks E for all the insight, quality and energy you put forth in your class. For those who saw a thread about supplies at Jax in Bellevue it was a special tip cleaner that E uses to keep her iron clean. That and ton's more tricks were discussed. I think everyone has returned to their studios with new tricks and carb stones in tow and a multitude of backlog to try new approaches on. It took me some time to get to e-mail so I'm sorry for the delay but I want to thank everyone. I agree with Cheryl that Seattle should have had a stronger turn out and missed a fine opportunity for personal growth. It was so nice to see the quality each brought to the class and the "no holds barred" sharing that went on....it was a great weekend and collaboration with many talanted folks....thanks to all. Delores Taylor Art Glass Concepts ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 21 09:43:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:21:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie_Spitzer From: "Spitzer, Charlie" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: FW: foil/solder of glass to hold water. Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:14:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep21.81451.0> Precedence: bulk bzzt. thank you for playing our game, good luck next time. there are different kinds of silicone that can be purchased. i'm not quite sure what you mean by 'water safe'. silicone that can normally be purchased cures over about 24 hours, mostly by releasing acetic acid (vinegar) vapors. i'm pretty sure you don't want acid to be poured over your nice shiny soldering. it's probably ok to use for lead, but i would imagine that the acid released would weaken joints such that over a period of many years would cause a failure. there are 2 different kinds of commonly available silicones. they are most commonly used for caulking or sealing, not so much for adhesion. the main difference is that one contains a fungicide and the other doesn't. if it says 'aquarium safe' then it doesn't and is also food safe after curing. the one containing fungicide is meant for bathroom use, and is not food safe. go to your local hardware store and buy it there. it's the same stuff that you get at fish stores, but instead of $4 for 3-4 ounces, you'll only pay maybe $2.50 for a couple pounds of it. make sure you read the label. btw: the silicone that aquarium makers use is a separate GE product that isn't commonly available. it has a much higher adhesion instead. you'd probably have to either special order it, or perhaps find it at a plastic or window glass distributor. regards, charlie phx, az -----Original Message----- From: Mike Savad [mailto:esavad@home.net] Sent: Monday, September 20, 1999 7:16 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: foil/solder of glass to hold water. Mike Peck wrote: > > Go to a pet shop and ask for adhesive that is used to repair aquariums. > I don't think it's silicone based, but sure holds glass watertight. > > Mike peck > > WoodsViewArt@aol.com wrote: > > > > Does anyone know how to use foil/solder or other source to attach beveled > > glass which will hold water and not leak? I would like to know for a project > > that I am working on. > > > > WoodsViewArt@aol.com aquarium silicone is silicone - it's just water safe. i guess plain silicone releases somwething in the water. ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 21 10:19:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:43:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Kauriee From: Kauriee@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Safety glass Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:41:50 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep21.164150.0> Precedence: bulk Anyone...help!? I thought at one point I had heard that as long as an individual piece of glass inside a stained glass panel was no larger than one square foot that the panel was considered "tempered" as far as safety reasons. The lowest panel I am making will be installed at floor level and 5 feet high. Will it be necessary to install a piece of safety glazing over the lower most panel? If not, is there any documentation I can use to show the installer that it is not required? Thank you, Kauriee ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 21 10:54:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:23:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: WoodsViewArt@aol.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: foil/solder of glass to hold water. Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:21:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep21.32147.0> References: <<1999Sep20.20055.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi Woodsview: Not a good ideal. Foil and solder will hold water for awhile but one will never know when the seal will break and you have leakage. How about aquarium sealant? Peggy On Mon, 20 Sep 1999 WoodsViewArt@aol.com wrote: > Does anyone know how to use foil/solder or other source to attach beveled > glass which will hold water and not leak? I would like to know for a project > that I am working on. > > WoodsViewArt@aol.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 21 11:25:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:03:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Glass Expressions" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: help on electroplating Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:00:20 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep21.4020.0> Precedence: bulk >>We have a two entry door and two sidelights- that we need brass plated- I've called around and all the larger towns close to us say they can't do brass plating on lead- can someone please enlighten me on this and why its so hard to find some one to do this << Pure crap. I have had brass plated on lead more than a few times and never a problem. The platter might give the lead a flash coat of copper first but the plating of brass on lead is routine for him. I have noticed, on small sample, that platters are, in general, a hard lot to deal with. Perhaps they should wear some sort of respiratory protection. Bob in SOCAL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 21 12:20:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:57:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net (synergyglass) To: "Bob Duchesneau" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: help on electroplating Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:56:11 -0700 Message-ID: <199909211856.LAA05258@mimas.island.net> Precedence: bulk >I have noticed, on small sample, that platters are, in general, a hard lot >to deal with. Perhaps they should wear some sort of respiratory protection. Well said. You could add my experience to that sample, and I thought exactly the same thing. :) Also, size of the piece to be plated may be a factor, depending on the size of the dipping tank the plater has. Perhaps that's where some of the problem comes in. C. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 21 12:51:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:11:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: help on electroplating Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:11:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep21.11114.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Glass Expressions" >We have a two entry door and two sidelights- that we need brass plated- I've called arounf and all the larger town s close to us say they can't do bra= ss plating on lead- can some one please enlighten me on this and why its so= hard to find some one to do this < Gee, I just pulled out the yellow pages of my phone book and found two sources close to my studio (within 45 minute's drive) who do brass, nicke= l and chrome electroplating on lead. Don't know why your local electroplat= er can't do it. There was one requirement from our electroplater - that for= panels we solder on copper hanging loops. Seems the panels go through their electrobath vertically, suspended by the loops. So after the electroplating we snip off the loops. Good luck in finding someone locally. If you're unable to find one, I can give you the name, address, phone# of mine and you cou= ld ship the panels to them UPS. Christie Wood/Art Glass Ensembles 405 E. Walnut St. Rear North Wales, PA 19454 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 21 13:21:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:50:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net (synergyglass) To: "Glass Expressions" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: brass came was Re: help on electroplating Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:50:16 -0700 Message-ID: <199909211850.LAA03243@mimas.island.net> Precedence: bulk >We have a two entry door and two sidelights- that we need brass plated- I've >called arounf and all the larger town s close to us say they can't do brass >plating on lead- can some one please enlighten me on this and why its so >hard to find some one to do this We usually do the brass capped lead >already made and use the gold marker to fill in the solder joints - however >an employee is recovering from surgury and time is of the esssence we can do >the lead much faster- should i ask for another process other than brass >plating - the customer just wanted the shine of the brass capped - please! >any info whould be greatly appreciated- I've tried louisville ky and >lexington- they said possibly indianapolis or cincinnati- is it really this >difficult to find people? thanks in advance ricky Ricky: This is a great opportunity to train another employee in working with the brass capped lead, so you don't run into this position again. I find the brass capped lead and regular lead about equal to work with. Use a dremel tool to make the cuts you would use nippers for and it goes quite quickly. Then you only have the joint painting to do. My experience is that the gold marker rubs off over time when it is used on mirror frames or kitchen cabinet doors where the work is cleaned often. I have found that spray cans of glossy brass paint from a paint store have more lasting power. Just shake well, spray some paint into a cup and apply with a paint brush. I find it much easier to get a good looking paint job without smearing gold paint on the glass using a brush instead of the marker nib. Maybe these tipe will help you get the project done efficiently. C. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 21 14:26:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:03:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!gcanvas From: "James C. Kelly" To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Panel repairs Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:01:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep21.1314.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all, a question about repairs-- I know how to remove cracked glass and have previously done several single piece replacements. Now I have a panel with multiple broken glass pieces. Four pieces, approx. 4 inch by 6 inch, in a foiled panel approx 6 square feet. Should I remove all broken glass and then replace or is it smarter to remove one, replace it, remove another, replace it, etc. = What are your recommendations for the safest way to go? Jim Jim Kelly Virginia Beach VA gcanvas@compuserve.com Tuesday, September 21, 1999 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 21 14:56:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:23:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: penn.com!MAILER-DAEMON From: John Jaynes To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Structural help please Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:21:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep21.122141.0> Precedence: bulk Hi, I'm building a leaded (not foil) panel to fit an opening 48" high x 20" wide. I have two questions. One, how much room should I leave for expansion. The panel will feature a zinc U-channel around the outside of it. Secondly, what should I be doing in terms of reinforcement to prevent sag? Thanx in advance, John Jaynes ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 21 15:25:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:35:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Stained Glass Clip Art Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:15:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep21.131533.0> References: <<1999Sep20.13503.0>> Precedence: bulk There might be some at the Spectrum Glass site. I got clip art from them before there was a World Wide Web, so they may have posted it. Dorothy Joseph Augusta wrote: > Pamela Dimitrovich wrote: > > > Does anyone know of a site that has nice stained glass clip art images? > > Thanks, > > Pamela > > > > Try this: go to Alta Vista's image search and type in +stained +glass > > no space between + stained then 1 space then +glass with no space > > If you don't find anything you like try the same search elsewhere like > Webcrawler, Metafinder, Yahoo etc---type it exactly as above. (it's a > trick!) > > Best wishes, > Joseph > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 21 15:45:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:08:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: xtra.co.nz!TMacnicol From: Tina Booth To: Glass List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------94BCEC18E2FEE24342C29093" Subject: Re: Glass Magic software Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:14:43 +1200 Message-ID: <1999Sep22.221443.0> References: <<37E76D39.26535FD7@massed.net>> Precedence: bulk --------------94BCEC18E2FEE24342C29093 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all. I have recently got e-mail confirming the sale of 10 or more Glass magic software disks for $15.00 per copy. Dick Reardon wrote: > Hi Tina > Was not sure if I sent you an evaluation copy of Glass Magic in the > mail. If not I would be glad to do so. By mid Oct we will be able to > start shipping the 5.0 version of Glass Magic. The new feature for 5.0 if > a bevel window form. The user will be able to select 1", 1.5", 2", or > 3" width bevels and then adjust the window size up to 40" high x 39" > wide. For each size selected there are 7 different bevel arrangements to > select from. The full size window can then be printed with an ink jet > printer on 81/2 x 11 sheets of paper. The user will also be able to > select foil or lead came construction. The print out will be slightly > larger for the lead came construction. > With 5.0 the cost of multiple copies will be just $15.00 ea. Also as we > have done with Finns Stained Glass Sydney ,we will split the shipping > cost. > Thanks Elaine for checking out the prices. I was only going by the price Delphi e-mailed me. > I think, however, that you have the software and prices confused. In the > Delphi catalog, The Glass Eye is $136.95, the Glass Magic is $29.95 and the Glass Magic > upgrade is $16.95. There is a big difference in the 2 software packages. Elaine > So far I have the following people down for a copy- please correct me if I am wrong. Tina Booth Brian Shepard Laya "Lin" Elaine Shelley E. Preble Michael from LSG. Sandra I. Gustafson Karen The two URL's are:http://users.megasoftnet.com/~mglass or try http://www.123.net/~mglass/ Regards Tina --------------94BCEC18E2FEE24342C29093 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all.

I have recently got e-mail confirming the sale of 10 or more Glass magic software disks for $15.00 per copy.

Dick Reardon wrote: 

Hi Tina
Was not sure if I sent you an evaluation copy of Glass Magic in  the
mail. If not I would be glad to do so. By mid Oct we will be able to
start shipping the 5.0 version of Glass Magic. The new feature for 5.0 if
a bevel  window form. The user will be able to select  1", 1.5", 2", or
3" width bevels and then adjust the window size up to 40" high x 39"
wide. For each size selected there are 7 different bevel arrangements to
select from. The full size window can then be printed with an ink jet
printer on 81/2 x 11 sheets of paper. The user will also be able to
select foil or lead came construction. The print out will be slightly
larger for the lead came construction. 
With 5.0 the cost of multiple copies will be just $15.00 ea.  Also as we
have done with Finns Stained Glass Sydney ,we will split the shipping
cost.


Thanks Elaine for checking out the prices.  I was only going by the price Delphi e-mailed me. 

I think, however, that you have the software and prices confused. In the
Delphi catalog, The Glass Eye is $136.95, the Glass Magic is $29.95 and the Glass Magic
upgrade is $16.95. There is a big difference in the 2 software packages. Elaine
So far I have the following people down for a copy- please correct me if I am wrong.
Tina Booth
Brian Shepard
Laya "Lin"
Elaine
Shelley E. Preble
Michael from LSG.
Sandra I. Gustafson
Karen

The two URL's are:http://users.megasoftnet.com/~mglass or
try http://www.123.net/~mglass/

Regards
Tina --------------94BCEC18E2FEE24342C29093-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 21 15:55:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:13:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: xtra.co.nz!TMacnicol From: Tina Booth To: Glass List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Glass Magic software Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:17:00 +1200 Message-ID: <1999Sep22.22170.0> References: <<000501bf042b$b5de1ac0$cf4247d1@mike>> Precedence: bulk Michael you are right. What I recalled as a very limited downloadable demo is actually a very limited online demo. lsg@technology21.com wrote: > > The demo is very limited the address again > is...http://users.megasoftnet.com/~mglass or > > try http://www.123.net/~mglass/ > > I went to this page and did not see an offer for a demo. > > I would be interested, if the $16 is for the full version. > > Michael from LSG. -- -Tina Booth- -Knowledge is true opinion- -Plato- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 21 16:11:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:35:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Stained Glass Books Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:31:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep21.143145.0> Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, I just noticed in the Dover catalog two of the better beginning stained glass books = for sale: How to Design Stained Glass by Jennie French $9.95 #27753-4 Pa. Stained Glass Craft by J.A.F. Divine $4.95 #22812-6 Pa. I don't believe Dover has a website, but you can contact them for orders by writing: Dover Publications, Inc. 32 E. 2nd Street Mineola, NY 11501 They do NOT take telephone or credit card orders. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 21 16:25:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:45:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net (synergyglass) To: "James C. Kelly" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Panel repairs Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:00:48 -0700 Message-ID: <199909212200.PAA05078@mimas.island.net> Precedence: bulk >>Four pieces, approx. 4 inch by 6 inch, >in a foiled panel approx 6 square feet. > >Should I remove all broken glass >and then replace or is it smarter to >remove one, replace it, remove another, >replace it, etc. = > > >What are your recommendations >for the safest way to go? Hi James, I would first make a rubbing of the area to be repaired to provide a template to work from, then remove all broken pieces and work the repair as one area. Doing it one piece at a time would be a lot of extra work as you would be duplicating a lot of effort. C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 21 16:41:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:02:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Editing Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:59:33 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep21.85933.0> Precedence: bulk Posted below is a post that came to me on another board. Being in the mist of editing bungi archives it rings a loud bell with me. I really liked the "slob e-mailery" thing. Hope you do to! ____________________________________________ > #1: It would be -greatly- appreciated if we could > practice a little better 'Net-Etiquette and -EDIT- > our postings to eliminate repeating -allllllllll- > of everyone else's postings... it's difficult to find > the "wheat" amongst the "chaff" when you've > seen the same note umpitty-ump times, ya' know? I concur most vociferously... there is, on this particular List, already an unfortunately high "noise to signal ratio," and without interfering with anyone's "fun" or sense of informal-let-your-hair-down Community, it would improve exponentially if List members didn't just hit the reply button and fire off a "Yeah, what he (or she) said!" response without trimming all but the operative information. It's "slob e-mailery" at it's worst, and as Moderators and Leaders, we might consider the examples we can set and the good "Netiquette" we can get into the habit of practicing. Having amplified Ms. Griffith's comments, I would add another related one of my own: Along with trimming your responses, consider changing the subject header as well, when the thread has branched away from the original subject. _________________________________ Bob in SOCAL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 21 16:55:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:21:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: John Jaynes Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Structural help please Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:20:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep21.92024.0> References: <<1999Sep21.122141.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi John. For your 20"x48" panel you will probably want vertical reinforcement...I would think two spaced across your panel. I haven't used the new reinforcement clips but that may be your best bet to follow a vertical line up through your panel and bend rebar ever so slightly to follow the lead lines and position them into the clips which are soldered to the lead lines. The rebar fits into the clips and can be soldered to the clips. Peggy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 21 17:27:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:50:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Panel repairs Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:48:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep21.154830.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "James C. Kelly" >Should I remove all broken glass and then replace or is it smarter to remove one, replace it, remove another, replace it, etc. What are your recommendations for the safest way to go?< If by removing all the broken pieces at one time you jepordize the strength and rigidity of the remainder of the panel, then do it one at a time. However, if you think you can safely remove all the broken pieces without causing more harm, then I would do it that way. Christie Wood/Art Glass Ensembles 405 E. Walnut St. Rear North Wales, PA 19454 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 21 18:01:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:51:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: help on electroplating Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:48:22 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep21.154822.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Debbie Taylor" >i would be interested in this information .. i live not to far from ricky, and i can attest that i do not have anyone = to do electroplating around here .. the only electroplating i know of that i= s being done by anyone in cincinnati, they are taking it to chicago ..< OK. I get my stuff electroplated at: North Penn Polishing & Plating Inc. phone 215-257-4945 fax 215-257-4943 They do the following plating: cadmium, zinc, chrome, tin, nickel, brass, and ?I think? copper. They are a government-approved plater. Do a lot of government work. Tell 'em I sent ya. (ha) Christie Wood/Art Glass Ensembles 405 E. Walnut St. Rear North Wales, PA 19454 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 21 19:32:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:48:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Bob Duchesneau" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Editing Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:47:25 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep21.174725.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Bob Duchesneau" >__________________________________________ > #1: It would be -greatly- appreciated if we could > practice a little better 'Net-Etiquette and -EDIT- > our postings to eliminate repeating -allllllllll- > of everyone else's postings... it's difficult to find > the "wheat" amongst the "chaff" when you've > seen the same note umpitty-ump times, ya' know? < Bob, haven't you noticed that some folks simply don't care as long as things are convenient for them?... you would think = they'd figure out it's no way to make friends. I feel particularly bad for our overseas friends who have to pay by the second to download repeats! Very bad manners.... Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 21 20:32:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:58:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass From: "K See" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: NG: E's first post on bungi Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:09:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep21.17957.0> Precedence: bulk While working on the archives can across this post. Thought you'd get a kick from Toby's first post with bungi. Check out her advise on grinder tongs. KSee Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 02:19:27 +0000 Hi, am dipping my toe into the water here for the first time, a little nervously. I got those messages too and could for the life of me not understand what was going on. At least - IT WASN'T ME !! Re: Smiling suns and sunrays ideas: Ed Sibbeett in his prolific pattern books have one or two in his "suncatcher" books, at least as a starting point; Another source - and don't laugh - are children's colouring-in books (they are also cheap!). I find them great for ideas for all sorts of things, including stylized animals....and their suns are always smiling. Once I get some scanning facilities working, I hope I can contribute more visual offerings of help and ideas. Re: Grinder tongs: I think you either cut / trim glass, or you have nails.... not both - at least not professionally. My Computer Guru has put together my WWW "Home Page" for me, which is already up and running (if as yet not quite complete). It will tell you more about me and my work. Am enjoying the discussions..you sound a great bunch. Bye for now. Tobynco ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 21 21:38:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:13:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bardstown.com!glassx From: "Glass Expressions" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: electroplating/putty Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:09:57 +0800 Message-ID: <1999Sep22.7957.0> Precedence: bulk ok heres a dumb question for a first time electroplating project. first thanks for those who responed for my plea of help - still searching this area-i think they think i'm a little off when asked for this process. now my other question is tdo you go ahead and putty the window so it will be sturdy or do i have to take a chance they will not harm it before puttying? thanks for the help for this newbie in this field- Ricky ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 21 21:57:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:53:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!cecnralph From: Cecily and Ralph Wood To: Bungi Glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Subject: Glass supplies in London? Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:59:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep21.195941.0> Organization: Grendel Studios Precedence: bulk Hi - I have the wonderful luck to have a week in London in October, and thought I might have fun poking around a stained glass supply shop, pick up some of those tallow candles, etc., but probably won't have a lot of time. Can anyone point me to a shop in Bloomsbury - on down toward the V&A? We are staying in Russell Square, but will be heading to the V&A at least 1 day. Too bad I wasn't into stained glass when we went the first time - we were at Ely Cathedral and didn't go to the stained glass museum (kicking myself). We intend to hit Westminster Abby again, and I seem to recall it was one of the few places Cromwell's thugs didn't trash (cause he wanted to be buried there, I suspect). What are some other MUST-SEEs for stained glass in London? The only things outside central London will be Hampton Court, Windsor, and Greenwich. Thanks - Cec -- ********************************************************************* * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) ********************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 21 22:42:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:17:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Glass Expressions" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: electroplating/putty Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:16:10 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep21.151610.0> Precedence: bulk >>or do i have to take a chance they will not harm it before puttying?<< My windows for electroplating are puttied before plating. The big thing I have found is to make very sure the soldering job is top notch. Any sloppy joints show up like a sore thumb when plated with bright brass. Also make sure that any irrodized glass you use is non electro conducting. Can't remember if it is Spectrum or Bullseye that plated over. No big deal because the plating can be cut with a matt knife and peeled off. I would not care to do this if there was a lot of glass involved. I understand there is a large demand for plating automobile bumpers and so the vats are large. The process involves an acid bath for cleaning, plating the steel with copper and then nickle and then chrome. Seems chrome does not readily plate to steel or copper and nickle does not like to plate to steel. Just know it works. Nickle plating is what those good looking sun catchers have. If you look hard enough you will find a platter that plates in gold. It may only take fifty cents worth of gold for a sun catcher but expect to pay far more. Bob in SOCAL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 22 00:44:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:59:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tir.com!jazzykid From: "jazzykid" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Books Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 02:57:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep21.22579.0> Precedence: bulk I have recently borrowed a book from my local library. Stained Glass Crafting by Donatella Zaccaria, published in 1998. I was amazed by the "welder" she used for soldering on foil. It looked like a hatchet with a smaller copper blade. I have never seen this before..could someone explain please. Jill ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 22 01:15:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 00:48:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: enterprise.net!robertcbullock From: "Robert. C. Bullock." To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Re: Glass Magic software. Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:47:41 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Sep22.94741.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BF04D7.21710D00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tina, Please add my name to the list for the Glass Magic software.=20 Would you let me know who and when to pay. Many thanks.=20 Regards. Robert. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BF04D7.21710D00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Tina,
 
Please add my name to the list for the Glass Magic=20 software. 
Would you let me know who and when to = pay.
Many thanks. 
 
Regards.
 
Robert.
------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BF04D7.21710D00-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 22 02:16:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 01:31:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Stained Glass Books Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:29:10 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Sep22.102910.0> Precedence: bulk At 18:31 21/09/99 -0400, Dani wrote: >I just noticed in the Dover catalog two of the better beginning stained glass books for sale: >How to Design Stained Glass by Jennie French $9.95 #27753-4 Pa. >Stained Glass Craft by J.A.F. Divine $4.95 #22812-6 Pa. Yes Dani - these are both worthwhile books - we have stocked the Divine book since we opened our shop, and were happy to add the French one a couple of years ago when it travelled across to the UK. I imagine most stained glass retailers would carry them as a norm, and may not be any moer expensive than buying elsewhere particularly if a postal charge was being added to the price! Regards EliZabeth in Bournemouth http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 22 03:47:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 03:15:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Diffusing your flash, was Re: thanks Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:11:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Aug25.61130.0> References: <<1999Aug25.125533.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 8/24/99 11:09:04 PM, esavad@home.net writes: > > >maybe a piece of wax paper... > > Tracing paper or translucent drafting paper is better than wax paper - no wax > to melt. But you still need to be careful not to overheat the paper, because > it's thin and will char and burn easily (and once it starts to char, you'll > be taking all your pictures in an ugly brownish light). > > Some people use baker's parchment, but if you do, you need to make sure it's > really *bright white* or it may give a yellowish cast to your pictures. > > Sparks > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass actually all this is pretty silly. glass would work better. youg white stipple. or clear window glass that's been etched, or blasted. or maybe a better diffuser - it might look strange but maybe clear granite, or ripple. you could even solder something up to slip over the flash. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 22 04:18:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 03:35:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!cecnralph From: Cecily and Ralph Wood To: Bungi Glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Subject: E-Tour panel photos Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 00:14:22 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep21.201422.0> Organization: Grendel Studios Precedence: bulk I finally got my film developed and can scan and upload a picture of my panel from the Meredith class. Is there an email address where they are to be sent? -- ********************************************************************* * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) ********************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 22 04:52:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 04:23:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Diffusing your flash, was Re: thanks Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:11:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Aug25.61130.0> References: <<1999Aug25.125533.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 8/24/99 11:09:04 PM, esavad@home.net writes: > > >maybe a piece of wax paper... > > Tracing paper or translucent drafting paper is better than wax paper - no wax > to melt. But you still need to be careful not to overheat the paper, because > it's thin and will char and burn easily (and once it starts to char, you'll > be taking all your pictures in an ugly brownish light). > > Some people use baker's parchment, but if you do, you need to make sure it's > really *bright white* or it may give a yellowish cast to your pictures. > > Sparks > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass actually all this is pretty silly. glass would work better. youg white stipple. or clear window glass that's been etched, or blasted. or maybe a better diffuser - it might look strange but maybe clear granite, or ripple. you could even solder something up to slip over the flash. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 22 05:18:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 04:55:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Jaaquets From: Jaaquets@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Step Stones Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:54:14 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep22.115414.0> Precedence: bulk I would also like a copy of step stones, if anyone has found it. Thank you. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 22 06:18:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 05:57:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne Gunn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Step Stones Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:56:40 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep22.25640.0> References: <<1999Sep22.115414.0>> Precedence: bulk > I would also like a copy of step stones, if anyone has found it. Thank you. I have gotten alot of requests again since the last time I shared my instructions...so thought I would post again. face mask or respirator rubber gloves, that go up your arm large bucket plenty of water, you will probably use more than you expected to... White portland cement fine light colored sand--be sure it is very clean sand industrial blast sand--be sure it is very clean sand stealth fiber mold release (I use 880, available from concrete supply) transparent contact paper paper and pencil Preparing the glass I Use any stained glass pattern. I cut the pattern out with my copper foil shears. Lead shears would probably be better, but I dont have them. I do grind all my glass. You dont have to have huge gaps, but you dont want your glass butt up against each other. Lay your glass out on your cartoon, cut your contact paper about an inch bigger than your glass all the way around. Peel off the paper, turn your sticky side toward your glass and fold the non sticky side up toward you. Center the contact paper over your glass and gently lay the center on the glass and slowly lower it onto the glass both sides at the same time. Then starting in the middle rub the contact paper onto the glass smoothing out any air bubbles as you smooth, then burnish it well. Be careful not to cut your contact paper on edges of glass. Then turn your glass over, and cut the contact paper as close to the edge of the glass as possible, I use a razor blade. Prepare your mold with mold release. Doesnt take much at all. I use a piece of terry cloth to apply it. Storing your cement I bought a big rubbermaid tub with a fitted lid for storing my cement. That is really a good idea, as it will absorb alot more moisture if left in the bag, then it will get lumpy and won't mix well. I suggest you start by looking in the yellow pages and trying to find a decorative concrete company. If you cant find one by looking in the phone book call construction contractors for a recommendation of a decorative concrete guy. The reason I say that ...is it may be alot easier to buy sand, fiber and release from him, as he buys in huge quantities. It is really hard to find the right stuff from home depot, lowes etc..... I havent found it elsewhere. I ran out of sand before my show and my concrete guy was on his honeymoon. The sand from home depot was awful. I buy my portland white cement from a concrete supplier here in Tulsa. The home repair stores dont carry it because it is expensive compared to gray, so nobody buys it. The quality of your sand will make a huge difference in the texture of your stones. Every concrete guy I have talked to on the phone was very nice and more than willing to talk to me or give me advice. I dont think they are used to people being interested in what they do or how they do it, and you arent their competition. I understand they are *very* competitive amonst themselves. I measure my cement and sand with measuring cups, and mix with my hands in the bucket. I dig my hand to the bottom and mix mix mix. I put it in the molds with my hands, and smooth etc with my hands. I bought a trowel, and used it once, tossed it down, went back to my hands and havent used it since. The correct mix is 3 parts sand to 1 part cement. You add water to the consistancy you prefer to work with. I use a pretty thin pour compared to other stained glass people, again this was the recommendation of the concrete guy. I have also found I like the my stones better this way, as I have mixed a little thicker as well. Most sg people say the topping mix should be like frosting...I go thinner. I can scoop it up with my hands hands...but it will not hold its' shape. Think melting icecream easy to stir. I mix the concrete a little thicker but not that much. The only difference between my topping mix and my concrete is the sand. I use only fine sand in the topping mix, then half fine, half blast for the concrete. There is no way you could form it into a ball. (most sg people tell you to do that) Mix your sand and cement together dry, until you feel like each grain of sand has cement on it. A concrete book I have says to think of your cement as glue and that your sand is what you are gluing together. You cannot over mix concrete. Also, concrete people cure slowly. The slower you cure your concrete the stronger it will become. The temperature is important when you are making stones. It should ideally be at least 60 degrees. If the temperature drops to 40 degrees or below curing stops. It will also mix easier if the cement and sand is warm. I unmold my stones after about 12 hours, and clean the top/glass. I use a straight edge razor blade. I have never scratched the glass this way. If you have little air holes you can mix up a little topping mix and rub the top of the stone. Then just wipe it off. I very rarely make only one stone at a time, so I unmold one at a time, clean it up, then start on the next one, once they are all cleaned up, then if there are any little air bubbles I want to work on I either do it then or anytime after that. Clean up your stone immediately after unmolding, if you wait until it is dry, you wont be able to clean up your glass. It gets stronger every minute the air is touching it. Professional concrete people have fogging rooms to keep the cement damp. They say that the longer it is wet the stronger. My concrete guy suggested that I soak my stones completely submerged for 24 hours the day after I take them out of the molds. Sometimes I do, sometimes I dont...depends on if I have time or space. I do squirt them down regularly with water from a squirt bottle for at least a day or two. Concrete will continue to strengthen for up to 50 years, I am told. They wont be cured enough for our purposes for at least 30 days. The strength of the stone will be obvious to you...when you have a stone a month old or older and a freshly made green stone. Be gentle with your new stones. Set them down gently, or you could chip off edges (even though it is on the back) and will look sloppy if you intend to sell them. I dont baby them taking them out of the molds, however. You can turn the mold upside down and hold it 3-4 inches over your table and drop it. That usually pops it right out. You can hold it upside down on your table, one edge of the mold on the table while holding the other edge, then press in the center with your other hand. (sort of like an ice cube tray) As far as the amount of fiber to use... Go for about 2 tbsp at first, mix it with your dry sand and cement. When your stone is out of the mold, and you look across the backside of the concrete, the side that will go to the ground you should see some hairs sticking up..if you dont, add more next time. topping mix 3 parts *all* fine sand 1 part cement stealth fiber concrete 3 parts sand (I mix this 1/2 fine and 1/2 blast) 1 part concrete stealth fiber If I need 8 pounds of concrete, I mix 6 (3 fine + 3 blast) cups sand with 2 cups cement. Think of the cement as glue, and the sand as what you are gluing together. Mix well to the point that you are confident that every grain of sand is coated in cement, then start adding water. I use a big bucket that bird seed comes in. And have plently of water ready to pour in as needed. I add a little at a time to get the consistancy I want. Experiment with the consistancy. I got excellent results by my 2nd pour. The biggest problems I had, was I didnt trim my contact paper close enough to my glass at first. I use a straight edge razor, and trim the contact paper as close to the glass as possible. For an 8x4 inch paver you need 2 cups topping mix 3 cups concrete for a 14" round 7 cups topping mix 14 cups concrete for an 8x8 square 3 cups topping 6-7 cups concrete For a 16 inch Hex stone you will need 9 cups of topping mix 19 cups concrete Stained glass people say that the dryer your mix the stronger your stone. That is the opposite of the advice I have gotten when reading about concrete and from talking to my concrete guy. I decided to take his advice, mainly because he has been doing this for a long time, and concrete is his entire business. I figure he knows more about it. I think I have covered all the basics here. If you have any questions or think of something I left out...email me. It really is easy, and a pretty good work out! ;o) Enjoy. Let me know if you have any questions. Suzanne -- Suzanne ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Choosing is only difficult for those with imagination ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 22 06:59:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 06:19:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: electroplating/putty Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:17:33 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep22.131733.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 9/22/99 1:43:17 AM, bobdu@prodigy.net writes: >Also make sure that any irrodized glass you use is non electro conducting. >Can't remember if it is Spectrum or Bullseye that plated over. No big deal >because the plating can be cut with a matt knife and peeled off. I would >not care to do this if there was a lot of glass involved. I should say not! Joe Porcelli got a chuckle out of his audience at Glass Visions when he said that people have been known to send out iridized-glass lampshades for copper plating (the first step in getting that greenish-brown Tiffany patina), only to get back something that looked like it was made of solid copper. He suggested coating any iridized glass with Vaseline before plating or applying patina. (NOTE: this works only if your plater is using a cold-bath process; a warm bath will melt the Vaseline off.) Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 22 07:22:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 06:34:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summitstudio From: Mike Peck To: Kauriee@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Installing windows Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:35:45 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep22.33545.0> References: <<1999Sep21.14357.0>> Organization: Summit Stained Glass (http://www.summitstudio.com) Precedence: bulk Kaurie, A 7" space doesn't seem like much, but I think you're wise to be concerned by it. I'd be more comfortable with continuous support along the bottom of any panel. But, that is not to say that you want all the weight resting on the bottom. Be sure to provide some good attachment of the sides and top, or the internal stress from compression could cause some early bowing/warping, especially if the panel is even slightly out of plumb. Good Luck, Mike Peck Kauriee@aol.com wrote: > > I am having some S.G. windows installed for a church by a local flat glass > shop. The original windows will remain in place, with the S.G. panels being > set up and secured in the frame. The drawing that was sent to me for approval > on the installation has the window being set up on several 4" sections of 1/2 > " x 1/2 channel with 7" spaces in between each for venting. (The overall > dimensions are 5 1/2' wide by 5' tall). My question is with the leaded glass > sitting up on the 4" spacers with the 7" between each, could the window > possibly not be supported enough along the 7" gap to cause damage in the > future from sagging? Does there need to be a continuous piece of support > along the bottom edge? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 22 09:31:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:00:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: E-Tour panel photos Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:58:44 -0700 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990922085844.0098cce0@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> References: <<1999Sep21.201422.0>> Precedence: bulk At 12:14 AM 9/22/99 -0400, Cecily and Ralph Wood wrote: >I finally got my film developed and can scan and upload a picture of my >panel from the Meredith class. Is there an email address where they are >to be sent? > You can send them to me if you'd like. I'm providing temporary storage on the web until E gets a chance to grab them for her student project archive. Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 22 14:22:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:54:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: enterprise.net!robertcbullock From: "Robert. C. Bullock." To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Glass Magic software. Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:51:52 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Sep22.225152.0> Precedence: bulk Tina, Not sure what you meant - 'Your post was empty Robert'. Below is copy of original or did you require my personal e mail address which is; (robertcbullock@enterprise.net) (Please add my name to the list for the Glass Magic software. Would you let me know who and when to pay. Many thanks. Regards. Robert.) Robert. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 22 15:27:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:52:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: enterprise.net!robertcbullock From: "Robert. C. Bullock." To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Glass supplies in London. Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:01:54 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Sep22.23154.0> Precedence: bulk Try James Hetley & Co. Ltd. Address is; Schoolhouse Lane, London, E1 9JA. Telephone numbers (from London); 01717802343 & 01717902333 Web site is; http://www.hetleys.co.uk Regards, Robert. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 22 15:56:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:32:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Stained Glass Clip Art Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:26:25 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep22.142625.0> References: <<1999Sep21.131533.0>> Precedence: bulk Well, I had some time to look, and couldn't find any. Sorry about that. Dorothy Family Account wrote: > There might be some at the Spectrum Glass site. I got clip art from them > before there was a World Wide Web, so they may have posted it. > > Dorothy > > Joseph Augusta wrote: > > > Pamela Dimitrovich wrote: > > > > > Does anyone know of a site that has nice stained glass clip art images? > > > Thanks, > > > Pamela > > > > > > > Try this: go to Alta Vista's image search and type in +stained +glass > > > > no space between + stained then 1 space then +glass with no space > > > > If you don't find anything you like try the same search elsewhere like > > Webcrawler, Metafinder, Yahoo etc---type it exactly as above. (it's a > > trick!) > > > > Best wishes, > > Joseph > > > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 22 16:56:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:40:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie_Spitzer From: "Spitzer, Charlie" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: FW: Stained Glass Clip Art Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:35:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep22.153528.0> Precedence: bulk dover books sells cdroms and books with lots of clip art. you might try getting their catalog. dover books has no web presence. regards, charlie phx, az -----Original Message----- From: Family Account [mailto:shad@mail2.nai.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 3:26 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass Clip Art Well, I had some time to look, and couldn't find any. Sorry about that. Dorothy Family Account wrote: > There might be some at the Spectrum Glass site. I got clip art from them > before there was a World Wide Web, so they may have posted it. > > Dorothy > > Joseph Augusta wrote: > > > Pamela Dimitrovich wrote: > > > > > Does anyone know of a site that has nice stained glass clip art images? > > > Thanks, > > > Pamela > > > > > > > Try this: go to Alta Vista's image search and type in +stained +glass > > > > no space between + stained then 1 space then +glass with no space > > > > If you don't find anything you like try the same search elsewhere like > > Webcrawler, Metafinder, Yahoo etc---type it exactly as above. (it's a > > trick!) > > > > Best wishes, > > Joseph > > > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 22 21:29:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:05:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: nettally.com!gypsy2 From: "Sandy Gustafson" To: Subject: Stained glass sprinkler Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:00:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep22.20024.0> Precedence: bulk Hi, Could someone please send me the url address for the sprinkler system. Some how I deleted the url before I could print it out. TIA Sandy in FL Remember: Be kind to everyone, because everyone is having a hard time. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 23 04:12:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 03:48:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!LMCCDC From: LMCCDC@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: restoration of windows Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 06:47:43 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep23.104743.0> Precedence: bulk I am starting a glass business and am interested in doing repair and restoration work. Does anyone know of any web sites or other sources of information that would be helpful to me? Also, what is the market rate, on an hourly basis, for this type of work. Thank you. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 23 04:45:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 04:20:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: citynet.net!khupp From: Kathy To: jazzykid Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Books Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:07:56 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep23.3756.0> References: <<1999Sep21.22579.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi Jill, I received the same book as a gift. The welder she uses looks terribly clumsy to operate. And by the looks of her soldering lines, I'd say it is. Did you notice the recipe she uses for leading? She lists plaster, grout or putty powder and vinyl glue. I'm really glad I received this book AFTER I had already learned the correct way. I could of really messed some panels up. The book says it was orginally published in Italy in 1996. Maybe they do things different over there? But I suspect she just does it her own way. Sorry I wasn't much help, but I'd been wondering about the techniques in this book too. Kathy jazzykid wrote: > I have recently borrowed a book from my local library. Stained Glass > Crafting by Donatella Zaccaria, published in 1998. I was amazed by the > "welder" she used for soldering on foil. It looked like a hatchet with a > smaller copper blade. I have never seen this before..could someone explain > please. > > Jill > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 23 05:13:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 04:43:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mediaone.net!embee From: "Mary" To: "Bungi" Subject: Fantastic Tip! Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:35:56 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep23.33556.0> Precedence: bulk I learned this from an owner of a glass shop. When you're soldering and you do not want solder to touch a surface, such as a brass lamp cap or a hinge on a box, use White Out. It absolutely works! Mary Barry ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 23 05:58:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 05:08:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ns.sympatico.ca!heinze.g From: heinze.g@ns.sympatico.ca (Gail HeinzeMiline) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Canadian or Northern Workshops? Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:21:55 -0300 Message-ID: <1999Sep23.62155.0> Organization: Glass with Class Precedence: bulk I would love to attend a 2-3 day workshop on advanced stained glass techniques, like what I've been reading about the E- tour. I have been looking for something in Canada- I'm in Nova Scotia, or nearby. I read Glass Craftsman but haven't been able to find anything in the "upcoming " listings. Any ideas? Thanks! Gail in Nova Scotia ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 23 06:25:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 05:46:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: capecod.net!jaugusta From: Joseph Augusta To: LMCCDC@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: restoration of windows Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:11:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep23.3113.0> References: <<1999Sep23.104743.0>> Precedence: bulk LMCCDC@aol.com wrote: > I am starting a glass business and am interested in doing repair and > restoration work. Does anyone know of any web sites or other sources of > information that would be helpful to me? Also, what is the market rate, on > an hourly basis, for this type of work. Thank you. Can't help you with the information you seek--but asking around shows you're on the right track--no point in starting up a new venture with eyes closed. Another thing to do is to visit glass shops in your area to see how, and what they're doing--and get an idea of their rates. Please remember to resist the urge to undercut established shops' prices--there's enough of this coming from Asia and elsewhere to make all of us quite sick enough! Best wishes, Joseph ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 23 08:13:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:19:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mediaone.net!embee From: "Mary" To: "Bungi" Subject: New project/ Editing files Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:32:56 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep23.33256.0> Precedence: bulk OK, I'm taking a break from editing Bungi files to share a new project I just completed. It took me all of 1/2 hour, and ended with a new coffee table! I found a very old, completely intact blonde rattan coffee table, sans top, at a "junk warehouse". The owner gave me a gorgeous beveled mirror which was about 1" longer than the table, but had an entire corner broken out. I trimmed that end of the mirror to fit the length of the table, and curved the corner break to resemble the ends of flower petals so that it appeared that the flower center was at the corner, with the petals laying on the table. I used 3 shades of turquoise in clear, textured glass, make definitions in the flower so that each looked like a separate petal, foiled and soldered it onto the mirror. I used reinforcement between all solder lines, and purposely built the lines to be larger than necessary. The result is really wonderful, and if I can find my digital camera in this mess, I'll take a pic. Nothing extraordinary, but a terrific conversation piece, as well as a functional table. Editing files: Now onto the editing. We have to remove extraneous salutations and closings (such as the word "OK" at beginning of this post) as well as little "artwork" which is usually found in signature lines. There is a person who posts frequently who merely has two dashes (--) below her name which have to b removed. Would you all check your signature lines and remove extra "stuff" so that we don't have to point, highlight, delete quite as often? On another note, when this archive comes out, you're going to be simply amazed at the wealth of information gathered in these files! You'll be able to choose a subject and find all posts regarding it. It will be wonderful! Thanks for helping out! (We delete those niceties too, but IMHO, they're necessary in civilized communication). Mary Barry ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 23 08:43:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:01:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Kauriee From: Kauriee@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: (no subject) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:00:14 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep23.15014.0> Precedence: bulk > I am starting a glass business and am interested in doing repair and > restoration work. Does anyone know of any web sites or other sources of > information that would be helpful to me? Also, what is the market rate, on > an hourly basis, for this type of work. Thank you. Have you read the book by Julie L. Sloan...."Conservation of Stained Glass in America"? it is a great book on the subject of restoration. The SGAA Reference & Technical Manual (although expensive) has a section on restoration as well. Hope this helps! Good Luck! Kauriee Wood (another Wood!) The Looking Glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 23 09:12:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:26:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: "Joseph Augusta" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: restoration of windows Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:23:39 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep23.12339.0> References: <<1999Sep23.3113.0>> Organization: weaver51@teleport.com Precedence: bulk try contacting insurance companies to see if they any one on file who does this. It may be a long hunt to get through the red-tape and levels of non-decision making drones. enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com Elaine and Howard best lamps on the "net": http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 23 09:58:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:12:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Fantastic Tip! Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:16:37 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep23.71637.0> References: <<1999Sep23.33556.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Mary wrote: > > I learned this from an owner of a glass shop. When you're soldering and you > do not want solder to touch a surface, such as a brass lamp cap or a hinge > on a box, use White Out. It absolutely works! > Mary Barry > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass paint markers work pretty well also.... as for the white out make sure it's the liquid kind with the brush. the pen kind won't work well, and the tape kind won't work at all. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are also a lot of new Sky City pictures. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 23 13:07:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:13:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie_Spitzer From: "Spitzer, Charlie" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Editing files Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:08:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep23.11836.0> Precedence: bulk the use of dashes is an internet standard. it is supposed to signify that the signature block immediately follows the dashes. unfortunately, a) not all people have a signature block and their mailer puts in nothing after the standard set of dashes, or b) not everyone know this and puts their signature block immediately after their message with no dashes. both are incorrect. regards, charlie phx, az > -----Original Message----- > From: Mary [mailto:embee@mediaone.net] > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 4:33 AM > To: Bungi > Subject: New project/ Editing files > > > Editing files: > > Now onto the editing. > We have to remove extraneous salutations and closings (such > as the word "OK" > at beginning of this post) as well as little "artwork" which > is usually > found in signature lines. There is a person who posts > frequently who merely > has two dashes (--) below her name which have to b removed. > Would you all > check your signature lines and remove extra "stuff" so that > we don't have to > point, highlight, delete quite as often? > On another note, when this archive comes out, you're going to > be simply > amazed at the wealth of information gathered in these files! > You'll be able > to choose a subject and find all posts regarding it. It will > be wonderful! > Thanks for helping out! (We delete those niceties too, but > IMHO, they're > necessary in civilized communication). > Mary Barry ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 23 13:34:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:20:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!Beadnik3 From: Beadnik3@webtv.net (J B) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Acid etch resist??? Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:19:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep23.111942.0> Precedence: bulk I have gotten excellent results using Dip n etch on fused glass pieces. I have some fused glass faces that I would like to etch, but i want to keep the "features"... i.e. eyes, mouth, hair, non-etched. As you can imagine, these are tiny pieces and raised, so I do not think using vinyl resist is appropriate. It occured to me that painting on nail polish, and then removing it afterwards, might work. Has anyone tried this, or do you have any other suggestions on what I can use as a resist on teeny little areas. Thanks. Joan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 23 16:27:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:58:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "J B" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Acid etch resist??? Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:18:10 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep23.81810.0> Precedence: bulk >>It occurred to me that painting on nail polish, and then removing it afterwards, might work. Has anyone tried this, or do you have any other suggestions on what I can use as a resist on teeny little areas.<< You can try painting on a coat of Elmer's Glue. Let dry and use your acid dip. Be sure to TEST ON SCRAP FIRST. Elmer's even works for very light sandblasting!!!!!!!!!! Bob in SOCAL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 23 19:00:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:21:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aug.com!barbieri From: "Barbieri" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: The E-Tour Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:18:20 -0400 Message-ID: <199909240119.VAA14785@sandia.aug.com> Precedence: bulk Dear Friends, It hardly seems possible...... but I am just a week away from my return to England, after two months meeting with you all across the United States. What wonderful memories you have all given me; what incredible hospitality, friendship and laughs. And.... hey... Cheryl.... don't even start mentioning the word "balloons"..... What stained glass I have seen, what wonderful workshop corners dug out by so many of you in homes, basements, sheds, garages, and various studios. Great dedication to stained glass. I have attended YOUR classes, workshops, restoration sites, To ALL of you across USA, thank you for sharing yourselves, your homes, your passion, your family with me. I am now secluded down with "family" in St.Augustine in Florida for my last leg. It's been truly wonderful (and I am looking forward to seeing you come trickling over to UK over the next couple of years.). I am travelling down to Sarasota this weekend and will spend a day or so with Lee Boe. By the way..... there appears to be one signed Tiffany panel here in St.Augustine. Do you know if there are more authentic ones?? Whewn I get back to UK, I will summarize my trip far better, in far greater detail and hope to keep you all informed. In the meantime, if you are communicating about Keck info, kiln info or if the latest development about the romance between Emeraldine and Pierre, please remember to send me a copy back to UK to toby@northlights.co.uk, as I remain unsubscribed at Bungi until my return.... I would hate to miss things..... The archives ARE somewhat cumbersome.... Glenna..... I am so sorry to have missed you in Seattle. I hope your eye-surgery went OK. Please communicate with me and let me know how you are. Elisabeth 'n absent Toby - currently in Florida..... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 23 19:20:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:23:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cs.com!RCall10713 From: RCall10713@cs.com To: Kauriee@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: (no subject) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:18:15 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep24.11815.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all, One thing the person starting, especially in restoration will learn, (after reading and refering to Julie Sloan's book, - a must) is that you never know what you will encounter. Recently, I completed restoration and releading on two large windows, apparently of a set, both more than 100 yrs old. The one in the worst apparent shape was by far the easier to do. Both were very time consuming, as both were over 600 pieces. My initial bid to do the first of these was windows was WAY low, which a frequent contributor to this list pointed out. Boy was she right. Many times, it will be more cost effective to make a new panel. But if restoration / rebuilding is what is wanted, it is worth AT LEAST $250.00 per sq ft, done right! Probably, like me, you'll see first hand what it is really worth, by doing it, Really no other way to realize the value. Richard Glassics ArtGlass Studio Valencia, CA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 23 19:33:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:51:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!ARTIZ01 From: ARTIZ01@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: BEVELS IN LARGE QUANITY Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:38:20 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep24.13820.0> Precedence: bulk Yes does anyone know where I can get bevels of custom size in large quanity? like 9 1/2" X 11 1/2" with a 1" Bevel? And at a reasonably rate? Mabe like 200. Thanks, Bunny ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 24 05:48:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 05:30:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: city-net.com!dany From: "Daniela Birkelbach" To: "Bob Duchesneau" , "Bungi" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Acid etch resist??? Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:29:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep24.42924.0> Precedence: bulk I was in a workshop last night to learn photo etching. This is etching photo-copied designs onto metal. We used a ferric chloride solution to etch. And nail-polish was one of the materials used to draw on a design. Sharpie Marker , Gold-Pen were others. Dany Daniela Birkelbach Kennebec, Inc. Custom Software Development Internet Solutions http://www.kennebec-inc.com http://www.city-net.com/~dany -----Original Message----- From: Bob Duchesneau To: Bungi ; J B Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 7:28 PM Subject: Re: Acid etch resist??? >>>It occurred to me that painting on nail polish, >and then removing it afterwards, might work. Has anyone tried this, or >do you have any other suggestions on what I can use as a resist on teeny >little areas.<< > >You can try painting on a coat of Elmer's Glue. Let dry and use your acid >dip. Be sure to TEST ON SCRAP FIRST. Elmer's even works for very light >sandblasting!!!!!!!!!! > >Bob in SOCAL > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 24 07:23:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 06:35:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!gwood From: "Gregg Wood" To: "Daniela Birkelbach" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Acid etch resist??? Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:31:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep24.53149.0> References: <<1999Sep24.42924.0>> Precedence: bulk > We used a ferric chloride solution Where does one get ferric chloride? -G (Look at me editing out all of the extraneous stuff.) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 24 11:29:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:47:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: city-net.com!dany From: "Daniela Birkelbach" To: "Gregg Wood" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Acid etch resist??? Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:32:01 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep24.9321.0> Precedence: bulk It is called PCB Etchant - stuff that is used for PC boards. You can get it at Radio Shack for $3.50. Dany >> We used a ferric chloride solution > >Where does one get ferric chloride? > >-G > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 24 11:59:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:30:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!mbwalker From: Brad Walker To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Fletcher Cutter Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:26:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep24.102639.0> Precedence: bulk Does anyone know what would be a good price to pay for a Fletcher Heavy-Duty Glass Cutting Machine? I'm talking about the kind of machine that is vertically oriented and that many hardware stores have for cutting glass. My local hardware store is going out of business and is offering their Fletcher Cutter for sale -- it's mounted to the back side of an eight foot high, 5 or so foot wide glass storage rack and appears to be in very good shape. The model number is 7554 -- any suggestions on what it's worth? Thanks. Brad Walker ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 24 12:17:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:21:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: The E-Tour Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:18:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep24.101815.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Barbieri" >The archives ARE somewhat cumbersome.... < Yes, but there is a great team working to organize them and I would think they will have an E-Tour category, no? Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Sep 24 17:07:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:47:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!AbbieN2Glass From: AbbieN2Glass@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: ng,Hi Group Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:44:39 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep24.234439.0> Precedence: bulk Hey everybody.....I am up and running again {Abbie in Va} I am looking forward to my bungi lessons once more....Thanks for being there! Abbie in VA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 25 03:55:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 03:41:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glasscutter From: Gerry Phibbs To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Fletcher Cutter Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 03:39:59 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Sep25.33959.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Brad, Those Fletcher cutting rigs have a wholesale price of somewhere around $1200 to $1500 new. I don't have my CR Lawrence catalogue handy, but if you wanted to check for current pricing on that particular model, I'd give them a call. If the unit is in good shape, and isn't too badly worn (check the plastic bushings that ride the vertical rails for play), the unit used, would be valued somewhere in the $400 to $500 range, perhaps less, perhaps a bit more. Much depends if the unit uses the little carbide wheel inserts which are replaceable (and how many of those come with the unit), or if the machine uses a more conventional glass cutter held into place. Newer units also have a rotating head, that can hold a plastic cutting blade, and that sort of unit will command a higher price. Good luck with your acquisition. Peace -Gerry ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 25 10:05:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:46:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: The E-Tour Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:40:28 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep25.164028.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 9/24/99 3:18:57 PM, GreerStudios@compuserve.com writes: >there is a great team working to >organize them and I would think they will >have an E-Tour category, no? And if they do, I hope they LEAVE IN the stuff about the sword fight, the liberation of the balloons, etc.! :-) Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 25 10:35:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:03:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: help on electroplating Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:57:19 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep25.165719.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 9/21/99 10:08:38 AM, glassx@bardstown.com writes: >We usually do the brass capped lead >already made and use the gold marker to fill in the solder joints - however >an employee is recovering from surgury and time is of the esssence we can >do the lead much faster If you're working with brass-capped (or solid brass) lead a lot, get yourself a good chop saw. Makes working with the stuff a breeze! Sparks (MORE POWER!) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 25 11:06:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:33:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tir.com!jazzykid From: "jazzykid" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Archives and E-tour Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 13:33:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep25.9334.0> Precedence: bulk Hey Sparks, I'm sure we will keep all the E-tour archives...but it's up to Chris and Jim.. I don't think they have figured out what keyword to place it under maybe, Keyword: Funny Stuff or Keyword: Famous Artists or Keyword: Classes or Keyword: Mad Viking from England!!! Of course, I don't think we will hear all the "stories" from the tour but... never know may come out later in the year. May the secrets all be revealed...LOL Jill ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 25 11:35:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:22:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cs.com!RCall10713 From: RCall10713@cs.com To: mbwalker@ix.netcom.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Fletcher Cutter Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:21:02 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep25.18212.0> Precedence: bulk Brad, I have no idea what it is worth, but I'd really grab it, if the price is sems remotely fair to you. The advantages of being able to easily square up large pieces. As I do a lot of geometric work, I can see the value of having one , but if you have the room to mount it, and it's reasonable, go for it! Richard Glassics Artglass Valencia, Ca. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 25 12:09:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:44:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne Gunn To: jazzykid Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Archives and E-tour Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 13:44:31 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep25.84431.0> References: <<1999Sep25.9334.0>> Precedence: bulk Maybe someday. Statutes of limitations have to run out first! ;o) Suzanne > Of course, I don't think we will hear all the "stories" from the tour but... > never know may come out later in the year. May the secrets all be > revealed...LOL > > Jill ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 25 12:39:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:34:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!Beadnik3 From: Beadnik3@webtv.net (J B) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Acid Etch Resist??? Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 15:34:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep25.11341.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks to all who replied to my acid etch query. I tried a few different methods suggested..... the glue seemed to work the best... it was easily applied with a toothpick (I'm talking teeny pieces here) and it peeled off very easily after I rinsed the etching solution off the glass. I'm pleased with the result of the shiny features against the matte background of the face. Now.... does anyone want to buy some REALLY ugly nail polish??? Joan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Sep 25 20:55:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:44:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: Lee Boe To: Pamela Burns-Tappan , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Just Returned From Seattle and the gracious E! Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 23:39:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep25.193957.0> References: <<1999Sep19.15014.0>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hello All, Last leg of my US trip and just spent a couple of days with Lee Boe in Sarasota. Next week it's back to England and back to my regular teaching. I have had a wonderful time and have been delighted in meeting so many of you face to face and spending time with you. Of course, a very special and precious memory of those of you who have welcomed me in your homes. I will spend many pleasant winter evenings "talking" to you from England, when it's dark and wet.... Lee's beads are awesome and I have enjoyed watching her. Her surgery will now follow very soon after I have left, so help me to keep her busy and thought of. I hope to post one last message before next Thursday (when I leave from Orlando) and let you know how I solved the problem of tucking the kiln under my arm that I bought in USA to bring back to UK with me on the flight (yep! go figure!!). Best wishes from us here in Sarasota... Lee Boe, Jenny and myself!! Elisabeth ('n grumpy , absent Toby!) Pamela Burns-Tappan wrote: > > Hello all! > > Had to cut my Seattle trip short due to my upcoming class schedule. So > as I write the folks are just arriving at Northwest Art Glass where they > are getting ready to finish their panels. 2 participants are doing > panels in Sunderland glass or better known as the old Hartley Wood. And > let me tell you the Sunderland is very, very nice glass. Beautiful in > color, easy to cut and extremely expensive. Terry Oakes is doing his > panel in some Fremont that is gorgeous. Lynn, an employee of Northwest > is doing her whole panel in Sunderland using clear, Rose Amber and gold > and green amber accents. Cheryl is doing a lovely Iris panel using St. > Just and a bit of Kokomo and I can't remember what else she had in there > :) And Delores has a fabulous design in bevels, antique Ruby Rondels > from England, clear glass and a really cool jewel. > > Elisabeth, of course, is teaching tips, tricks and everything is going > well and the participants are having a great time. I took alot of > pictures and hope to get them developed very soon. Elisabeth is a fine > teacher with tons of patients and a loving touch. Exquisite! > > And boy, does the wine flow in the evening! I'm sure you all of you > hosts and hostesses remember that! Cheryl was the loveliest hostess I > could imagine. Her home is beautiful and located in Bothell Washington. > > More on Chihuly and the E-Tour will be coming your way in an upcoming > Common Ground Glass article to be written by Carol and I. I think I'll > get over my hangover before I even start writing that! > > Pam > > P.S. Glenna could you please subscribe Pam@moswoodmountainltd.com > thanks!! > > -- > > Ms. Pamela Burns-Tappan > Moswood Mountain Ltd. > http://www.moswoodmountainltd.com > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 26 09:54:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:47:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Two glass questions Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:53:54 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep26.25354.0> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk Hi group, My local stained glass retailer just told me, that no american glass company is making glue chip anymore. Is that right? And I have finally tried canfield solder(50/50)and it goes mushy on me. Do I have my solder gun too hot or too cold? Thanks in advance. Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 26 10:25:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 10:10:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: Shirley Balloch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Two glass questions Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:08:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep26.989.0> References: <<1999Sep26.25354.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Shirley Balloch wrote: > > Hi group, > My local stained glass retailer just told me, that no american glass > company is making glue chip anymore. Is that right? > And I have finally tried canfield solder(50/50)and it goes mushy on me. > Do I have my solder gun too hot or too cold? > Thanks in advance. > Shirley B > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass not sure about the gluechip, but i doubt it. if it's out of the country it would get very pricey, and the last i checked the price wasn't that bad. canfield's 50-50 melts at a lower temerature then the other solders. i heard that you can even use the 50-50 instead of 60-40 when beading. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are also a lot of new Sky City pictures. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 26 10:58:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 10:22:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net (synergyglass) To: Shirley Balloch Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Two glass questions Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 10:21:44 -0700 Message-ID: <199909261721.KAA07019@mimas.island.net> Precedence: bulk >Hi group, >My local stained glass retailer just told me, that no american glass >company is making glue chip anymore. Is that right? My wholesale catalog indicates that ZDR colored glue chip glass uses Vegla Sahara glass for the base colors and the actual glue chipping texture is done in the USA. Seems that there IS a new clear glue chip that comes from China that is much more reasonably priced than US made clear glue chip, so that's what my wholesaler carries in 3mm thickness. They do list a 5 mm clear glue chip as made in the USA, but all the 3mm stuff seems to be made in China. Type A clear glue chip has a more consistent pattern than Type B clear glue chip. It's also more expensive. Second...I can't visualize what mushy solder looks like. Does it peak? If so, your iron is too cold. Do you have enough flux? You may have to turn your iron up a bit as I think 50/50 has a slightly higher melting point than 60/40. C. >And I have finally tried canfield solder(50/50)and it goes mushy on me. >Do I have my solder gun too hot or too cold? >Thanks in advance. >Shirley B >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 26 11:31:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:11:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mediaone.net!izzy3 From: Michael Smoucha To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Re: restoration of windows Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:09:26 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep26.8926.0> References: <<1999Sep23.104743.0>> Precedence: bulk --------------06324DB4256FE752106FF8E4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LMCCDC@aol.com wrote: > I am starting a glass business and am interested in doing repair and > restoration work. Does anyone know of any web sites or other sources of > information that would be helpful to me? Also, what is the market rate, on > an hourly basis, for this type of work. Thank you. > ---- > If you need to ask these questions you have no business doing this work professionaly ms --------------06324DB4256FE752106FF8E4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

LMCCDC@aol.com wrote:

I am starting a glass business and am interested in doing repair and
restoration work.  Does anyone know of any web sites or other sources of
information that would be helpful to me?  Also, what is the market rate, on
an hourly basis, for this type of work. Thank you.
----
 
If you need to ask these questions you have no business doing this work professionaly

ms
  --------------06324DB4256FE752106FF8E4-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 26 12:34:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:07:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ragingbull.com!bw91k From: "Stewart" To: toyou87@bluewin.ch Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: Big money....No risk!!!! Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 14:33:19 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep26.93319.0> Precedence: bulk Hello!Yes, less than ten percent of you who see this letter will take any action on it. That's cool! Those of you who DO take action will be blessed beyond your wildest hopes. The following was sent to me a month or so ago. After reading it, I just couldn't pass it up. I know that a lot of people wish they could stay at home and make thousands of dollars. Well...here is the program to do just that! You may have seen the feature story about this program on a major network TV show several months ago. The network TV show determined that the program explained below is a service and is 100% legal. Take a few minutes to read over all of the information enclosed, MAKE A COPY, then read it again. You won't be sorry! Good Luck! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Like a lot of people, I was looking for additional income by replying to various advertisements on the Internet and in newspapers. Having worked most of my adult life in the financial profession, I was very impressed by the following proposal: A few weeks ago I received a letter from a fellow attorney that said:=94I am a retired attorney and about two years ago a man came to me with a letter.=94 The letter he brought to me is the same letter you have before you now. He asked me to review its contents to determine if the letter was legal. I told him I would look it over and get back to him with my opinion. When I first read the letter I thought it was an "off the wall" idea to make money. A week later, I met with my client to discuss the issue. I told him the letter as originally given to me was not 100% legal. Naturally, I was curious about the letter, so he told me how it worked. After hearing the explanation, I decided it was a "long shot", so I decided against participating. However, before my client left my office, I asked him to keep me updated as to his results. About two months later, he called to tell me that he had received more than $800,000 in cash!! Well, I didn't believe him, of course, so he asked me to try the plan and see for myself. I thought about it for a few days and decided that there was not much to lose. I followed the instructions exactly and mailed out 200 letters. Sure enough...the money started coming in! It came slowly at first, but after three weeks, I was getting more mail than I could open in a day. After about 13 weeks, the money stopped coming. I kept a precise record of my earnings and at the end it totaled $868,439.00! I earn a good living as an attorney, but as anyone in the legal profession will tell you, there's a lot of stress that comes with the territory. I decided if things worked out, I would retire from my practice and play golf. This time I sent out 500 letters. Well...a little more than three months later, I totaled $2,344,178.00!! I met my old client for lunch to find out exactly how it works. He told me that there were a few similar letters going around. What made this one different is the fact that there are seven names on the letter...not five like the others. That factor alone resulted in more returns. The other factor was the advice I gave him in making certain the whole thing was perfectly legal, since no one wants to risk doing anything illegal. I know you must be curious about the little changes I advised him to make for the letter to be legal. Well, when sending out a letter like this one, to be legal, you must sell something if you expect to receive something in return. So, when you send a dollar to each of the seven names on the list, you MUST include a slip of paper saying: "PLEASE ADD ME TO YOUR MAILING LIST" and include YOUR NAME, MAILING ADDRESS, AND E-MAIL ADDRESS. This is the key to the program. The item you will receive is THIS LETTER and the right to earn thousands. =46ollow the simple instructions EXACTLY, and in about three months, you should receive MORE THAN $800,000 IN COLD, HARD CASH!!! 1) IMMEDIATELY send $1.00 to each of the seven names listed below. The SOONER you send the "$1.00 LETTERS", the SOONER you will start getting a return! Wrap the dollar in a note saying: "Please add me to your mailing list". Include YOUR NAME, MAILING ADDRESS, AND E-MAIL ADDRESS. You will receive expert tips on promoting this letter and some excellent BULK EMAIL resources. *Remember...If you don't ask for this service, use of this letter will be illegal for you! 1. David Wong,2 Thayer St.Apt.#5B,New York,NY 10040 2. A. Colon,PO Box 290,Bronx,NY 10463 3. T.=46rank,N78W 14573 Appleton Ave.,#227,Menomonee =46alls,WI 53051 4. J. Russell,5201 Kingston Pk.,#6-315,Knoxville,TN 37919 5. E-Solutions 101, PO Box 6411, Providence, RI 02940-6411 6. L. Marsden, 273 Gregory St. Unit 4, Aurora, IL 60504 7. B. Jones II, 2220-2d Point West Dr., =46ort Wayne, IN 46808 NAME & ADDRESS NEXT TO #1. at the top of the list and MOVE the other names(#2 thru #7) UP ONE POSITION. Then place YOUR NAME & ADDRESS in the #7 spot. Be careful when you type the addresses. It is suggested that you PROO=46READ to MAKE CERTAIN the names and addresses are correct. 3) When you have completed the above instructions, you may market the letter using the following options: 1. Bulk email 2. U.S. Postal Service 3. =46lyers 4. Post =46REE Classified Ads on the Internet 5. Newsgroups This letter has been proven perfectly legal for all of the above means, as long as you follow the instructions; because you are purchasing membership in an exclusive mailing list. To mail this letter out over the Internet, you can browse through ours and find people to send it to. All you have to do is cut and paste e-mail addresses wherever you are on the Internet. Another method of marketing the letter is using a Bulk E-Mail Service to mail out letters in large volume for you. We suggest using the Bulk E-Mail approach. When you mail your $1 letters you will receive a few recommendations for bulk email companies that will supply you with fresh email addresses. Posting =46REE CLASSI=46IED ADS on the Internet can also achieve results. Simply go to a search engine(e.g. Yahoo, Hot Bot, Lycos, Excite, Infoseek, etc. and type in =46REE CLASSI=46IED ADS. You'll get a list of over 80,000 sites where you can post ads. Remember to use a catchy title like =46REE MONEY, and post your e-mail address. When you get an inquiry, simply e-mail a copy of this letter. The more you send, the more you will make. It's a lot of work...so that's why we recommend using a Bulk E-mail Service. We strongly encourage you to mail this letter to your family and friends. They'll be grateful!! THIS IS A SERVICE AND IS 100% LEGAL. You may refer to: Title 18, Section 1302 & 1342 of the U.S. Postal & Lottery Statute; or check it out with the U.S. Postal Service if you have questions. Let's assume, for example, you get a 7.5% return rate. My first attempt, however, was 9.5%, and my second was more than 11%. 1) When you send out 200 letters, 15 people send you $1.00 ($15.00) 2) Those 15 people mail out 200 letters and 225 people send you $1.00 ($225.00) 3) Those 225 people mail out 200 letters and 3,375 people send you $1.00 ($3,375.00) 4) Those 3,375 people mail out 200 letters, and 50,625 people send you $1.00($50,625.00) 5) Those 50,625 people mail out 200 letters, and 759,375 people send you $1.00 ($759,375.00) 6) At this level, your name drops off the list. Think about it. Look at what you will have received before your name drops off the list. It looks unbelievable, I know. Do the math...see for yourself! Just DO IT and you'll happily believe because you'll receive proof in the form of MANY ONE-DOLLAR BILLS!!! Just make certain that you send a dollar to each of the seven names on the list; including the note asking to be added to their mailing list. Together we will all prosper! Well...you've read this far, so let me ask you a question: Q: What do you have to lose? A: Only $7.00 Don't throw this letter away. Keep it...think about it...and after awhile...YOU WILL TRY IT! I looked at it for over two months, and then I said: "It's only $7...I have to be nuts not to do it". ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// // Reomve at: mailto:linbm@angelfire.com?subject=3Dremove ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// // ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 26 13:07:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:40:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: restoration of windows Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:37:38 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep26.53738.0> References: <<1999Sep26.8926.0>> Precedence: bulk That seems a bit harsh. Everyone started somewhere. At least they are asking questions. Seems to me most of the failed businesses I know are the ones that were too proud (or too dumb) to admit they did not know everything and ask questions. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Smoucha To: Sent: Sunday, September 26, 1999 11:09 AM Subject: Re: restoration of windows ... > > If you need to ask these questions you have no business doing this work > professionaly > ... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 26 13:37:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:21:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ghostman.com!candy From: "Candy Thurman" To: "glass@bungi.com" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Two glass questions Date: Sun, 26 Sep 99 02:12:16 Message-ID: <199909262019.OAA29748@mantis.privatei.com> Precedence: bulk Shirley, Mt Airy in SC and GA both make wonderful gluechip. Call them and ask prices for their 'domestic gluechip' and say hi for me Candy (used to be CandyGlass in Augusta, ga.. haven't talked to them for almost 10 yrs.) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 26 14:08:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:55:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cs.com!RCall10713 From: RCall10713@cs.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_768aa145.251fe1ec_boundary" Subject: Fwd: restoration of windows Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:54:04 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep26.20544.0> Precedence: bulk --part1_768aa145.251fe1ec_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For obvious reasons, I wanted my post to go to all, but clicked on the wrong arrow. Richard --part1_768aa145.251fe1ec_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: RCall10713@cs.com From: RCall10713@cs.com Full-name: RCall10713 Message-ID: <6da171c6.251fe14d@cs.com> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:51:25 EDT Subject: Re: restoration of windows To: atwoods@aisl.bc.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: CompuServe 2000 32-bit sub 65 I'd agree with you that it is rather harsh, and terribly judgmental to say to someone, on this forum, "...........you have no businesses doing this work professionally". If all of the people who do, using that criteria, have a right to do this work professionally, were as judgmental, and ,therefore, withheld years of experience and expertise, from the group, where would we be? It would seem that an enlightened artist or craftsperson who seeks knowledge from this forum, regardless of business acumen or experience, is miles ahead as such, of one who would attempt to pass judgment, or become the arbiter of who is entitled to do what. Excuse me, but I seem to have read somewhere that people over time have gone to great lengths to be free of such oppression. Richard Glassics Artglass Studio Valencia, CA --part1_768aa145.251fe1ec_boundary-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 26 16:38:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:23:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: J B Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Acid etch resist??? Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:22:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep26.92241.0> References: <<1999Sep23.111942.0>> Precedence: bulk Joan: Try Elmer's glue as resist on small areas. Peggy On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, J B wrote: > I have gotten excellent results using Dip n etch on fused glass pieces. > I have some fused glass faces that I would like to etch, but i want to > keep the "features"... i.e. eyes, mouth, hair, non-etched. As you can > imagine, these are tiny pieces and raised, so I do not think using vinyl > resist is appropriate. It occured to me that painting on nail polish, > and then removing it afterwards, might work. Has anyone tried this, or > do you have any other suggestions on what I can use as a resist on teeny > little areas. > > Thanks. > > Joan > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 26 19:18:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:49:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Kauriee From: Kauriee@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: (no subject) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:48:19 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep27.14819.0> Precedence: bulk I agree! We all had to start somewhere! At least one has the presence of mind to research something before blindly leaping into it! Kauriee Wood ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 26 19:43:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:56:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!cecnralph From: Cecily and Ralph Wood To: Bungi Glass , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Subject: Re: Big money....No risk!!!! [NG] Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 22:03:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep26.18336.0> Organization: Grendel Studios Precedence: bulk I assume that dear "Stewert" is not a bungi member? I have previously received this mailing but not from Bungi. I do rather believe it is not only spam, but also illegal - it certainly looks like a chain letter to me. You might be interested in The Spam Recycling Center spamrecycle@ChooseYourMail.com which is a consortium of biggies on the internet. They make certain these junk emailings are brought to the attention of the real ISPs. I'm pleased to say I have had responses where ISPs tell me they have canceled someone's account for violating their spam rules. Incidentally, spam experts say you should NEVER reply to the unsubscribe message to get off their list - many of these groups automatically subscribe you TO their lists this way. - Cecily -- ********************************************************************* * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) ********************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 26 20:17:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 19:53:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon From: BMarhon@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: SPAM [NG] Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 22:49:15 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep27.24915.0> Precedence: bulk I've heard the same thing about not replying. I never do and I get hardly any spam. Not my boss - he always replies to take him off and he gets more spam and x-rated stuff than regular e-mail (and he gets a ton of regular email). Brenda << Incidentally, spam experts say you should NEVER reply to the unsubscribe message to get off their list - many of these groups automatically subscribe you TO their lists this way. >> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 26 20:50:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:36:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!cecnralph From: Cecily and Ralph Wood To: Bungi Glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Subject: Re: Glass supplies in London? Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:39:02 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep26.19392.0> References: <<007301bf0594$a52c3620$c3c628c3@default>> Organization: Grendel Studios Precedence: bulk Thanks to those to sent information. I think we'll manage to get to both of the mentioned places. The Hetley place is on your way to Docklands, not too far east from Tower, and appears to be one of the MAJOR suppliers of glass in the UK (including for eyeglasses!). Their website is neat because they have a history of the businees (150 years or some such). They have a map on their site. The Lead & Light is not too far from Vauxhall bridge - up a bit and a little west. I had to join Mapquest (www.mapquest.com) in order to find where they are located, but did find it. (I'd even gone to Barnes & Noble and would have purchased a map book, down to the street address level, of London but none to be had). Brian Shepherd wrote: > Hetley are the major London suppliers but if you are looking for a better > excursion try Lead & Light 35a Hartland Road London NW1 4BD Tel 0171 485 > 0997 They are a lot smaller than Hetley but as you are flying I guess you > probably won't be buying sheets of glass! Friendly place run by a Canadian > chap (might be American!) > > Most importantly they are very near Camden Lock which will be real fun for > you! This area is quite famous as a market and small trader environment. I > just know you will like it! > > If it's mail order supplies you want then try Kansa Craft > stainedglass@kansacraft.co.uk they can probably send you your tallow etc and > save your baggage allowance! (So can hetley of course!) > "Robert. C. Bullock." wrote: > Try James Hetley & Co. Ltd. > > Address is; > Schoolhouse Lane, > London, > E1 9JA. > > Telephone numbers (from London); 01717802343 & 01717902333 > > Web site is; http://www.hetleys.co.uk > > > -- > > ********************************************************************* > > * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood > > * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) > > ********************************************************************* > > > > > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > -- ********************************************************************* * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) ********************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 26 21:07:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:35:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!cecnralph From: Cecily and Ralph Wood To: Bungi Glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Subject: Stained Glass in San Francisco??? Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:43:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep26.194354.0> Organization: Grendel Studios Precedence: bulk I get a Friday and Saturday in SF. Never been there. What is MUST SEE for glass, or suppliers? -- ********************************************************************* * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) ********************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 26 21:22:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:54:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!patrickkelly1 From: patrick kelly To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Subscribe Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:10:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep26.141058.0> Precedence: bulk Glenna, Please subscribe me again with this email account. Thanks in advance Patrick Roses and Rainbows __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Sep 26 22:23:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:51:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aug.com!barbieri From: "Barbieri" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: The E-Tour in Florida Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 00:01:58 -0400 Message-ID: <199909270403.AAA19740@sandia.aug.com> Precedence: bulk Hi Cecily, Good to hear from you!! Glad you can hang in there with the strange and weird Bungi Group! Have just spent a day at the Morse Museum at Winter Park; wonderful experience. But.... it is somewhat smaller than I imagine it to be. The lady that met us in the entrance just happened to be English.... she was sooooo pleased to strike up a conversation with folks from England..... so complimentary.... that she "hoiked out" one of the curators to give me and Jenny a special tour of the Museum. The "Docent" tssk-tssk-tssk'd - when I pointed my camera at certain objects (but didn't actually and actively forbade me to push the "clicker".... so I DID!!!). YES!! I was able to run my hands down that georgeous drapery glasss, inspect the plating and feel the cold-painting technique of the Madonna and Child (which - they think - was added on as an afterthought...) This immediately reminded me of the Henry Keck experience in Kansas City. The Madonna and Child Window at the Morse Museum had some elements in it that had been cold-painted (i.e. not fired) OK, it was designed as an interior panel. Yup!! True Tiffany!! Is there ANY connection between the unfired cold-paint Tiffany panel at the Morse Museum (the non-fired bits were only the green on a gown...) and the Henry Keck windows in Kansas City....??? Could it be, that Keck (a Tiffany apprentice) thought that it was OK to leave paint un-fired??? ....After all...., he might think.... if Master Louis did it, .... then it's good enough for me... ????? Speculating only...?? I will ponder on this mystery for a very long time.... But the cold-painted panel at the Morse Museum did intrigue me. Mike... Are you there ???? Another panel I have never seen before (in deed - there are only 3 in existance.) is the "Pebble Panel", a delightful s.g. panel with about 50 percent made up out of beach stone pebbles. There were no photographic representations of it in the Museum Shop, no slides, no nothing. When I DID sneak back after the "personalized" super-tour to take a picture of it with my camera, mysteriously a woman in dark blue trousers, pale blue shirt and dark blue tie turned up from nowhere and told me "Ma'm, you are not allowed to take photographs here!". At which point, I looked at her with my most pleading, apologetic and "grovelling" eyes, apologized and crept away quietly. The "Docent" had - by then - already left Jenny and myself to our own devices...... My journey to Florida could have had a workshop attached to it, we tried to find a venue down here for one to take place. At the end of the day, it was more to do with a kind of a pilgrimmage to put a smile on the face of a great s.g. lady who has been fun, positive, creative on Bungi for quite a few years now, but who will now need every thought, communication from ALL of us around the Bungi World for the next 6 (SIX) months or so.... You all surrounded me, helped me, encouraged me about 3.5 years ago for someone I needed to help in the UK. NO Group could have been greater, more caring, more informative, more helpful, more supportive!! I myself would not have been here in USA, had it not been for ALL of you. I would now like to re-focus thoughts, attention to the imminent surgery of Lee Boe. Again, I will ask ALL of you to join me in a protracted long-term healing process. You have been there with me before... We'll do it again!! And no.... it won't be a 30 second remembering thing,.... it'll be a 30 week or 30 month thing.... or however long it takes.... Laylah, a great s.g. lady with a fighting spirit, positive mind, make-up to kill, finger nails to die for and a wicked glint in her eye, with a very human and loving personality and a GREAT artist. This is for you! I will draw all and every individual of Bungi to concentrate their energy on you for the next 6 months or more. You SHALL walk! You SHALL be without pain! You SHALL have surgery!! You SHALL be able to enjoy the full capacity of your ability in stained glass/ hot glass. You SHALL achieve your spiritual potentials! Thank you for the last couple of days. I may not make beads... but I'll certainly experiment with door-knobs, cabinet knobs and similar items. Go On! You will have about 1,000 people behind you!!! You can do it! You WILL do it!!! Folks, believe it or not.... I have ONLY 4 (FOUR) days left in USA. The weather in Florida has decided to acclamitize me for what I will have to face in UK..... it's been "PPPPpppp...ii.ss..ouring" down with rain - all the way from Sarasota to St.Augustine. I feel very humble.... the love and generosity you have all shown me in person has been quite something.... Every single one of you I have met in person has been exactly as I have known you for these years. ......And More.... I fully expect to receive the first tentative programmes of your (YES!! Y O U !!! ) pending visit to England. My home is as much yours as YOU have made me feel at home with you. And Glenna.... Thank You.... good to hear about your eyes. I did miss you in Seattle.... Probably the penultimate posting in USA from the Mad Viking Elisabeth 'n Toby from UK (currently in VERY rainy) Florida > The Charles Hosmer Morse Museum of American Art in Winter Park - near Orlando > specializes in Tiffany. And if one is a stained glass artist who knows what > she is talking about, she should be able to talk them into letting you see > them up close - maybe even hands on, as my friend did. Much of this > collection was salvaged by Tiffany's daughter after his home burned, and was > sent to the Morse for preservation. > > www.inusa.com/tour/fl/orlando/morse.htm > > Barbieri wrote: I am travelling down to Sarasota this weekend and will > > > spend a day or so with Lee Boe. > > > > By the way..... there appears to be one signed Tiffany panel here in > > St.Augustine. Do you know if there are more authentic ones?? > > Elisabeth 'n absent Toby - currently in Florida..... > > -- > ********************************************************************* > * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood > * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) > ********************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 27 00:57:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 00:28:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Shirley Balloch Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Two glass questions Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 00:37:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep26.20374.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Shirley Balloch >that no american glass company is making glue chip anymore. < Get serious! I know for sure that Monarch Shower Door in Denver is making glue chip... heck, we make glue chip at our studio now and then.... Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 27 04:58:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 04:37:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: erols.com!nadinesfolly From: nadinesfolly@erols.com To: patrick kelly , glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="X-X-X-X-X-X--NeoPlanet-MIME-TEXTandHTML--X-X-X-X-X-X-X1074097-X-X" Subject: re: Subscribe Date: 27 Sep 99 07:40:54 -0500 Message-ID: <199909271136.HAA28237@smtp4.erols.com> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --X-X-X-X-X-X--NeoPlanet-MIME-TEXTandHTML--X-X-X-X-X-X-X1074097-X-X Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding:7bit Patrick! Where've you been??? We've missed you? Did you get the package? Nadine www.nadinesfolly.com --X-X-X-X-X-X--NeoPlanet-MIME-TEXTandHTML--X-X-X-X-X-X-X1074097-X-X Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding:7bit Patrick!

Where've you been??? We've missed you?
Did you get the package?

Nadine

www.nadinesfolly.com --X-X-X-X-X-X--NeoPlanet-MIME-TEXTandHTML--X-X-X-X-X-X-X1074097-X-X-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 27 05:29:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 05:16:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netaxs.com!maruca From: maruca@netaxs.com To: Dani Greer Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: directios for glue chipping? Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:14:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep27.41436.0> References: <<1999Sep26.20374.0>> Precedence: bulk On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Dani Greer wrote: > Get serious! I know for sure that Monarch > Shower Door in Denver is making glue chip... > heck, we make glue chip at our studio now > and then.... > Reading this thread I thinking, don't I know somebody who does this? Isn't it fairly easy? Now Dani jumps up to confirm my suspicions! Dani, would you be so kind as to share the method with us? TIA Mary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 27 06:31:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 06:26:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: S*bscribe Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:24:58 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep27.132458.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 9/27/99 12:24:20 AM, patrickkelly1@yahoo.com writes: >Please s*bscribe me again with this email account. HE'S BA-A-A-A-A-A-ACK! YA-A-A-A-A-AAAAY! Anybody been keeping count of how many bios he owes us now? Sparks ducking and running to hide behind my pet excuse of needing to gt a life before I send in a bio ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 27 10:08:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:32:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!Charlie_Spitzer From: "Spitzer, Charlie" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: FW: directions for glue chipping? Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:28:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep27.82811.0> Precedence: bulk i used to have a better link on how to do this, but i can't find it anymore. try http://home.connexus.net.au/~bruceja/tech/gluechip.htm there's probably a better link in the archives. it's come up before. regards, charlie phx, az -----Original Message----- From: maruca@netaxs.com [mailto:maruca@netaxs.com] Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 5:15 AM To: Dani Greer Subject: directios for glue chipping? On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Dani Greer wrote: > Get serious! I know for sure that Monarch > Shower Door in Denver is making glue chip... > heck, we make glue chip at our studio now > and then.... > Reading this thread I thinking, don't I know somebody who does this? Isn't it fairly easy? Now Dani jumps up to confirm my suspicions! Dani, would you be so kind as to share the method with us? TIA Mary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 27 10:40:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:34:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: , Subject: Re: S*bscribe Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:25:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep27.8255.0> Precedence: bulk Yep, I think he owes us his great bio. Welcome back Patrick. Linda Jo -----Original Message----- From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, September 27, 1999 9:37 AM Subject: Re: S*bscribe > >In a message dated 9/27/99 12:24:20 AM, patrickkelly1@yahoo.com writes: > >>Please s*bscribe me again with this email account. > >HE'S BA-A-A-A-A-A-ACK! YA-A-A-A-A-AAAAY! > >Anybody been keeping count of how many bios he owes us now? > > >Sparks > ducking and running to hide behind my pet excuse > of needing to gt a life before I send in a bio >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 27 11:11:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:39:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: solder question Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:46:44 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep27.34644.0> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk OK group, Thank you Gregg who wrote: Flux will change the flow characteristics in the liquidus state but not have much effect in that pasty range. (End of Diatribe, resume normal speed)This is great advise by the way!!! There is alot more to my problem I fear. But this statement has me asking more questions. When my solder is pasty(I am mostly beading the edge of a faerie wing right now)I keep going and then reflux and go back over with the iron and the whole thing will smooth out. I am using a rheostat, but I also have a tip that is burning out, I mean it has one of those canker like sores on it. I suspect I am loosing heat from it and that is why I am having the trouble soldering. Meanwhile I will turn up the heat. I have been keeping it on the 8 setting. I don't know the name of the solder I was using. I get it from my local welding supply shop. It is made by J.W. Harris Co. in Cincinnati. It does flow easier but seems to get dirtier faster. I used to use it with my weller and a number 7 tip. But many times of going to bed and leaving the iron on, shorten the poor things life. Thank you all for answering my question. The intelligence in this group always astounds me. Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 27 11:13:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:19:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!gwood From: one.net!gwood To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Two glass questions Date: Mon Sep 27 10:18:00 1999 Message-ID: <1999Sep28.7560.0> References: <<1999Sep26.25354.0>> Precedence: bulk > And I have finally tried canfield solder(50/50)and it goes mushy on me. What have you used in the past? Make & Mixture Are you using a rheostat? I suspect so. Your iron is probably 'just a bit' on the too cold/under powered side. (WARNING: Yet another diatribe on solder why's) The 'melting point' of any solder other 63/37 is a bit of a misnomer. All other solders have a point where they melt and become fluid and a different higher temperature where they become solid again. For all temperatures in between, it is at a 'pasty' stage. The 50/50 alloy does become a fluid at a higher temperature that 60/40 and 60/40 higher than 63/37. All three begin to melt at the same temperature. The temperature at which solder begins to melt is called the solidus and the temperature at which it is completely liquid is called the liquidus. Alloy Solidus Liquidus 63/37 361 361 60/40 361 374 50/50 361 421 All temperatures are in degrees F The higher the percentage lead, the wider the range of the pasty state. As solder cools through this pasty state lead crystals form giving it that cloudy appearance. The longer it takes to cool the more lead crystals form before reaching the solidus giving a dull appearance and a weaker joint. Many manufactures add other metals such as antimony or proprietary ingredients to change a solders characteristics. Flux will change the flow characteristics in the liquidus state but not have much effect in that pasty range. (End of Diatribe, resume normal speed) -G ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 27 11:40:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:12:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!christkaiser From: Chris Kaiser To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Glue Chipping Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:12:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep27.41225.0> Precedence: bulk Here a better link =) http://www.glassmart.com/gluechip.html ps...it IS very easy to do, but watch the safety notations from this page, they are very valid. chris --- "Spitzer, Charlie" wrote: > i used to have a better link on how to do this, but > i can't find it anymore. > try __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 27 12:42:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:28:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: heesun.com!keane From: "Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd." To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Test Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:21:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep27.11210.0> Precedence: bulk ISP just changed mail servers, just checking to make sure everything's ok. Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd. http://www.heesun.com Custom Design Studio Supplies & Classes for Stained & Fused Glass & Mosaics ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 27 14:53:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:27:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pobox.com!Northernlights From: "Northernlights (Tracy Reitmann)" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: testing Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:27:34 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep27.112734.0> Precedence: bulk new ISP so I'm testing to see if I actually get this on the big post! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 27 15:57:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:18:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Shirley Balloch" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Soldering irons Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:13:34 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep27.81334.0> Precedence: bulk >>I am using a rheostat, but I also have a tip that is burning out, I mean it has one of those canker like sores on it. I suspect I am losing heat from it and that is why I am having the trouble soldering.<< When the cladding on the soldering iron tip breaks through it is time to buy a new tip. I suggest you bring the iron with you and have the stained glass store install the new tip. That way you will get the correct tip or they can order the correct tip. Also it is not unusual for the tip to freeze in the iron. The store should have a better chance of getting the old one out than the average solderer. If this service is not free- shop somewhere else. Bob in SOCAL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 27 17:27:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:02:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!MicheleRoberts3 From: MicheleRoberts3@aol.com To: christkaiser@yahoo.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Glue Chipping Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:00:32 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep28.0032.0> Precedence: bulk please remove me from this mailing list ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 27 17:58:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:03:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!MicheleRoberts3 From: MicheleRoberts3@aol.com To: Northernlights@pobox.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: testing Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:01:18 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep28.0118.0> Precedence: bulk please remove me from your mailing list ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 27 18:44:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:53:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: moswoodmountainltd.com!Pam From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Stained Glass Apprenticeship Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:52:00 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep27.10520.0> Precedence: bulk Would anyone have a full time apprenticeship position open in the state of New Jersey? E-mail me personally please. Thanks! Pam -- Ms. Pamela Burns-Tappan Moswood Mountain Ltd. http://www.moswoodmountainltd.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 27 19:34:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:14:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!cecnralph From: Cecily and Ralph Wood To: Elisabeth & Toby Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Subject: Re: The E-Tour in Florida Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:22:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep27.182241.0> References: <<199909270403.AAA19740@sandia.aug.com>> Organization: Grendel Studios Precedence: bulk Speaking of the drapery glass, I've seen some and felt it. How in the world do you cut it? (And don't tell me "with difficulty" or "very carefully" ) It must be VERY expensive. The only way I can think of handling it would be with a band or ring saw because it's really 3-d with an inch or two inches in the depth of the folds. Did Tiffany's minions have a band saw? Elisabeth wrote: > I was > able to run my hands down that georgeous drapery glasss, inspect the > plating and feel the cold-painting technique of the Madonna and Child > (which - they think - was added on as an afterthought...) -- ********************************************************************* * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) ********************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 27 19:51:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:57:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary From: Hilary To: Cecily and Ralph Wood Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Stained Glass in San Francisco??? Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:03:01 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep27.1831.0> References: <<1999Sep26.194354.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi, Cecily, Finish your panel yet? Head down the coast a little to Santa Cruz. Oceana Glass is there. Maybe someone has a real address for them. I don't think that they have a web site. Hilary PS It isn't glass, but the Monterey Bay Aquarium is unbeatable and certainly inspirational. > I get a Friday and Saturday in SF. Never been there. What is MUST SEE > for glass, or suppliers? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 27 19:58:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:24:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!cecnralph From: Cecily and Ralph Wood To: Bungi Glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Subject: apology (NG) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:26:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep27.18264.0> Organization: Grendel Studios Precedence: bulk For most of the years I've been online, I've had an account in my name, and my work account is in my name, so I am constantly forgetting to sign my messages, now that my husband's name is also on the account. Pardon, please. I hit the send button and then it's too late to undo. Any postings to Bungi are from Cecily, not Ralph. -- ********************************************************************* * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) ********************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 27 20:19:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:45:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ghostman.com!candy From: "Candy Thurman" To: "glass@bungi.com" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: solder question Date: Mon, 27 Sep 99 08:36:32 Message-ID: <199909280243.UAA04170@mantis.privatei.com> Precedence: bulk to the group: I was experiencing a lot of pitting and 'canker sores' on my irons, and early burnout. A friend talked me into trying a weller with built in rheostat, and putting my little independent rheo away. Surprise!! No more pitting... and the soldering goes better. But I will have to experiment with different tips.. tho she says I 'shouldn't be using 50/50 on anything anymore!!!" Candy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 27 20:27:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:16:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: Cecily and Ralph Wood Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: The E-Tour in Florida Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:14:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep27.191445.0> References: <<1999Sep27.182241.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Cecily and Ralph Wood wrote: > > Speaking of the drapery glass, I've seen some and felt it. How in the world > do you cut it? (And don't tell me "with difficulty" or "very carefully" > ) It must be VERY expensive. The only way I can think of handling it > would be with a band or ring saw because it's really 3-d with an inch or two > inches in the depth of the folds. Did Tiffany's minions have a band saw? > > Elisabeth wrote: > > > I was > > able to run my hands down that georgeous drapery glasss, inspect the > > plating and feel the cold-painting technique of the Madonna and Child > > (which - they think - was added on as an afterthought...) > > -- > ********************************************************************* > * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood > * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) > ********************************************************************* > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass besides bandsaw, which is what i would use. i think the method i heard was this: use an old duller glass cutter. score the peaks, then tape it out so the connect. the glass should be cradled on a dense foam of some kind. foiling it however would be much more of a challange, and of course storing it - a real pain i'm sure - eventually i'll have to get some. though i've only seen it at Warner criv, and it's kind of pricy... some day i guess... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are also a lot of new Sky City pictures. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Sep 27 21:03:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:35:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Stained Glass in San Francisco??? Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:32:55 -0700 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990927203255.009938c0@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> References: <<1999Sep26.194354.0>> Precedence: bulk Oceana is more than a little side trip from SF. It'll take you close to 2 hours to get from SF to Santa Cruz. If you decide to do it, you also should check ahead since they don't keep normal office hours. If you're interested, Cecily, let me know and I'll send you their address, phone number, and even a map. I wish I could help you with the SF part of your trip, but I'm not a city boy. Hilary got it right recommending the Monterey Bay Aquarium. Steve At 10:03 PM 9/27/99 -0400, Hilary wrote: >Hi, Cecily, > >Finish your panel yet? > >Head down the coast a little to Santa Cruz. Oceana Glass is there. Maybe >someone has a real address for them. I don't think that they have a web site. > >Hilary > >PS It isn't glass, but the Monterey Bay Aquarium is unbeatable and >certainly inspirational. > > >> I get a Friday and Saturday in SF. Never been there. What is MUST SEE >> for glass, or suppliers? >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 28 00:30:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 00:19:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: Rita Tidwell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: thanks Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 22:36:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Aug24.18365.0> References: <<1999Aug24.161146.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Rita Tidwell wrote: > > Thanks for the help on foil problem. Will try the trick with flash next > time I use the camera. Wonder if a piece of scotch tape would work? Has > anyone seen a pattern for the "End of the Trail" and a bulldozer or > john deere? > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i would'nt try that with the tape. the flash can get very hot (ever get your finger in the way? the tape may stick on and you may never get it off. maybe a piece of wax paper... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 28 03:03:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 02:37:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glasscutter From: Gerry Phibbs To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Subject: Re: solder question Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 02:35:38 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Sep28.23538.0> References: <<1999Sep27.34644.0>> Precedence: bulk For Shirley Balloch, I suspect that you're witnessing what happens to a copper alloy soldering iron tip, after you've melted way too much solder with it. That "canker" you refer to, is where the copper has actually been dissolved in the liquid solder, and thus removed from the tip of the iron. Of course there are a number of remedies possible, but I'll suggest that you simply dress up the tip of your iron with a file. Do it while the iron is cold, and use the file to simply reform the wedge shape that it had originally. You can then reheat the iron, and "tin" the tip once more, and you should be back in business. Most tips can stand this sort of dressing a few times, but eventually they just get too small to bother with. One of the advantages of the Weller stained glass specific irons, is that their tips are iron plated, so that this sort of erosion of the underlying copper doesn't happen nearly as quickly. Dressing up an iron plated tip, will remove that protective iron plating, and get you back to a solid copper alloy tip. Over the years, I've used some solid copper rod to make my own replacement tips, a foot or so of the right diameter will probably outlast your needs, and it's relatively easy to cut and fit in a new tip - just as long as you can get the blasted set screw out of the iron! I'll suggest you try dressing up your tip, and re-tinning it, and see if that doesn't dramatically improve your results. Peace -Gerry ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 28 07:09:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 06:48:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!barbaraelmore From: barbara elmore To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: glue chipping in the US Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 06:48:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep27.234821.0> Precedence: bulk Carolina Glue Chip is in my own backyard, so to speak, in North Wilkesboro, NC, and they make a ton of glue chip and even chip other manufacturers glass. They also own a factory in China. I was given a short tour of how glue chipping is done, and doubt if I will ever try it at home. It literally stinks from the glue! The drying room where the chipping actually occurs is fascinating to "listen" to as the chips fly off! Barbara Elmore __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 28 07:45:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 07:07:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: Candy Thurman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: solder question Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:06:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep28.6616.0> References: <<199909280243.UAA04170@mantis.privatei.com>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Candy Thurman wrote: > > to the group: > > I was experiencing a lot of pitting and 'canker sores' on my irons, and early burnout. A > friend talked me into trying a weller with built in rheostat, and putting my little > independent rheo away. > > Surprise!! No more pitting... and the soldering goes better. But I will have to experiment > with different tips.. tho she says I 'shouldn't be using 50/50 on anything anymore!!!" > > Candy > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass 50-50 has nothing to do with it (unless it has an acid core or something). flux is the major source for corsion. not keeping the iron clean, or tinned before putting it away is also bad. it can cause the iron to rust in the drawer. my ungar will pit after a while of using it. that's it's "pitfall" - don't mind the pun. but solder itself has nothing in it to make an iron pit, its the opposite - the solder can act as a barrier for the iron and prevent the corosion. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are also a lot of new Sky City pictures. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 28 08:12:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 07:47:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: chalcot.com.au!chalcot From: "Gordon Newell" To: "glass" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Backlighting a cabinet Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 00:48:35 +1000 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.104835.0> Precedence: bulk G'Day, Originally our new entertainment unit had two doors with plain glass inserts. I have since replaced these with a circular copper foil rose on a frosted glass background, with the rest of the panel leaded up with the original clear glass cut into quarters. Now it looks fine during the day, but I would like to 'backlight' it in the evening. Does the group have any suggestions, ideas, do's/don'ts? Regards Gordon. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 28 08:48:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:32:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: Gordon Newell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Backlighting a cabinet Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:29:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep28.72931.0> References: <<1999Sep29.104835.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Gordon Newell wrote: > > G'Day, > > Originally our new entertainment unit had two doors with plain glass > inserts. I have since replaced these with a circular copper foil rose on a > frosted glass background, with the rest of the panel leaded up with the > original clear glass cut into quarters. > > Now it looks fine during the day, but I would like to 'backlight' it in the > evening. > > Does the group have any suggestions, ideas, do's/don'ts? > > Regards > > Gordon. > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass maybe a painting light would work. it's a small lamp about 6" wide shines downward. the main thing you have to be most concerend about is the heat build up. flourecent would work, but may look ugly. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are also a lot of new Sky City pictures. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 28 10:16:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:39:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: chalcot.com.au!chalcot From: "Gordon Newell" To: "glass" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: FW: Backlighting a cabinet Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 02:40:37 +1000 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.124037.0> Precedence: bulk Mike, There are two adjustable shelves in each section, I thought of decreasing their depth and putting a small flouro at the back of each shelf. This way the lights themselves won't be seen. I'll have to check and see if I can get some small ones. Gordon. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Savad [mailto:esavad@home.net] Sent: Wednesday, 29 September 1999 1:30 AM To: Gordon Newell Subject: Re: Backlighting a cabinet Gordon Newell wrote: > > G'Day, > > Originally our new entertainment unit had two doors with plain glass > inserts. I have since replaced these with a circular copper foil rose on a > frosted glass background, with the rest of the panel leaded up with the > original clear glass cut into quarters. > > Now it looks fine during the day, but I would like to 'backlight' it in the > evening. > > Does the group have any suggestions, ideas, do's/don'ts? > > Regards > > Gordon. > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass maybe a painting light would work. it's a small lamp about 6" wide shines downward. the main thing you have to be most concerend about is the heat build up. flourecent would work, but may look ugly. ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 28 11:42:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:19:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim Atwood" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Backlighting a cabinet Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:16:53 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep28.41653.0> References: <<1999Sep29.124037.0>> Precedence: bulk There are several different florescent fixtures designed specifically for what you describe. Standard retail lighting stores may not carry them though. They are generally ordered by cabinet makers direct. Try calling some of the wholesale lighting outlets. Or call some cabinet makers. Many cabinet makers will have catalogues full of lights designed for use inside cabinets. Many will let you look at their catalogues and they may even include it in an order of theirs for you. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gordon Newell To: glass Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 9:40 AM Subject: FW: Backlighting a cabinet > Mike, > > There are two adjustable shelves in each section, I thought of decreasing > their depth and putting a small flouro at the back of each shelf. This way > the lights themselves won't be seen. I'll have to check and see if I can get > some small ones. > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 28 12:11:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:19:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim Atwood" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Backlighting a cabinet Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:10:33 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep28.41033.0> References: <<1999Sep28.72931.0>> Precedence: bulk Colour balanced fluorescent bulbs are available for almost every size of lamp. You will pay $8.00 to $40.00 rather than $1.29 to $15.00 depending on the bulb size. But with stained glass, it is well worth the extra cost. For where I want a "warm" feeling to the light, I use a 3500 degree Kelvin fluorescent (about the colour warmth of a halogen incandescent). For my studio and sometimes the gallery where exact colour rendering is important I use 4000 to 5000 degree Kelvin flourescents (5000 degree is the colour balance of light from a northern sky that painters value so much). My current favourites are Phylips UltraLume. Not a true "full spectrum" because they do not have colour frequencies that the human eye can not detect. Instead they concentrate the colour spectrum on those colours that the human eye is most sensitive to. As a result they appear to give off more light for the wattage. They also seem to result in deeper, richer more vibrant colours than almost any other colour balanced fluorescent I have tried. You may be able to get what you need from a regular lighting store, but probably not. In my experience some retail lighting stores are great. But most do not know anything besides fancy fixtures and may even tell you that colour balanced flourescents do not even exist. If you get this sort of crap, just back out the door and go somewhere else. Instead I would suggest calling around to wholesale lighting stores that concentrate on selling to contractors. Many (not all) will happily sell retail also. The good ones will have (or order) exactly what you need without any problem and the price will be better too (which is important on these higher priced speciality bulbs). ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Savad To: Gordon Newell Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 8:29 AM Subject: Re: Backlighting a cabinet > ... > > the main thing you have to be most concerend about is the heat build > up. flourecent would work, but may look ugly. > ... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 28 12:47:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:09:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mtcon.net!shigbee From: "Shari" To: "Bungi" Subject: re: lights Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:23:34 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Sep28.72334.0> Precedence: bulk While we're talking about lights, I am in need of some small "up lights" that you see on the decorating shows these days--often in plants (indoor) or to shine on pictures, etc. Does anyone have a web site or catalog source for this type of light? Shari in SLC ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 28 13:47:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:10:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: horizon-research.com!liz From: "E.Hammond" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Site of New Orleans Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:10:04 -0400 Message-ID: <199909282009.QAA12525@smtp7.atl.mindspring.net> Precedence: bulk I'll be in New Orleans for a few days. Any good and glassy sites to see? TK Horizon Research, Inc. ph: 919-489-1725 111 Cloister Court, Suite 220 fx: 919-493-7589 Chapel Hill, NC 27514 web: ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 28 14:51:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:36:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Craft fair lesson Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:37:35 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep28.133735.0> Precedence: bulk (1), Yes, I found the craft fair. (2), Don't pack up early unless you really have to. We were having a rotten day. Working real hard for a few sales. First time we did this show, although we'd heard sales were excellent last year. Well, they weren't this year. Maybe the weather was TOO good. Anyway, at 4 the fair ended. John and I sighed and sat down and stuck out our feet and joked about how we wouldn't have to work too hard this week. Suddenly people starting coming up and buying things! In the half hour after the show ended, we did 2/5 of our sales for the day! So we have to work, but not insanely. We need, among other things, to make nightlights, angels, butterflies, crosses...our smaller stuff. John is foiling right now. When I tried some 50/50 solder, BTW, that I had been given, I didn't notice much difference between it and 60/40, but then, I solder really hot and fast, anyway. Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 28 16:12:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:53:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: access.net.au!annieg From: "agregory" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Stained Glass Clip Art Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:50:59 +1000 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.185059.0> References: <<1999Sep20.12461.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi Pamela, Not sure if this will be any help or not but I just received this information in an email from Tipworld: TIP: LOOKING FOR CLIP ART? September 24th, 1999 If you're looking for clip art to liven up a document or presentation, you might want to check out Pedago Clips Clip Art Searcher. This site provides you with handy forms you can fill out to search for clip art on Lycos, Hot Bot, Filez, and Alta Vista. Drop-down boxes make choosing search options offered by each engine easy. http://www.pedagonet.com/clipart/clipart.eht Cheers Anne ----- Original Message ----- From: Pamela Dimitrovich To: Sent: Tuesday, 21 September 1999 6:46 AM Subject: Stained Glass Clip Art > Does anyone know of a site that has nice stained glass clip art images? > Thanks, > Pamela > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 28 19:43:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:21:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzy To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Drapery Glass Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:21:31 -0400 Message-ID: <199909290220.WAA19370@smu0102.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk Speaking of drapery glass: I was given some by a client about a month ago to cut and "throw in one of his windows somewhere." I tried to cut it with my trusty Toyo. Big mistake. The Toyo slipped and a big dagger of it fell, right onto the back of my 13-year-old cat (who was winding around my legs at the time). She received an inch-deep wound right beside her backbone. Had surgery and stitches. The wound is clearing up nicely but the trauma has left her with a (hopefully) lung infection. I say hopefully because if antibiotics don't clear it up, we won't want to know the alternative. Big lesson learned: Use a bandsaw, and be careful. This has caused me untold sadness. >Cecily and Ralph Wood wrote: >> >> Speaking of the drapery glass, I've seen some and felt it. How in the world >> do you cut it? (And don't tell me "with difficulty" or "very carefully" >> ) It must be VERY expensive. The only way I can think of handling it >> would be with a band or ring saw because it's really 3-d with an inch or two >> inches in the depth of the folds. Did Tiffany's minions have a band saw? > >besides bandsaw, which is what i would use. i think the method i heard >was this: use an old duller glass cutter. score the peaks, then tape it >out so the connect. the glass should be cradled on a dense foam of some >kind. > >foiling it however would be much more of a challange, and of course >storing it - a real pain i'm sure - eventually i'll have to get some. >though i've only seen it at Warner criv, and it's kind of pricy... some >day i guess... > >---Mike Savad > >-- >Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos >http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 >9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making >your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are >also a lot of new Sky City pictures. >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 28 20:10:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:27:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: twinwolf.net!dimitrovich From: "Dimitrovich" To: Subject: Foiler Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:02:52 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep28.18252.0> Precedence: bulk Does anyone have any comments - positive and negative on these two foilers: Inland EdgeMaster II Foiler and the Glasfoiler? I'd like to hear some opinions regarding these. I'm buying one of them tomorrow. Thanks so much. Pamela ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 28 20:13:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:50:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: to clarify Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:57:40 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep28.125740.0> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk I have another tip, I know I need a new tip. The solder gun came with two, but I got organized and now can't remember where I put the special allen wrench that came with it. Yes my retailer will be glad to help me. The other solder I was using was for stained glass. The owner of the welding shop does glass himself and keeps it on hand special for the rest of us. He has the lowest prices in town, cause he can buy bulk( I mean really bulk!!) I have been switching fluxes lately, cause I just don't like any as yet. Next to try is canfield flux. I don't like Gladstar it feels sticky on my hands(I know I should wear gloves). I am using Laco-brite(something like that)right now and it is too watery. I have tried the paste, but it just falls off. I haven't got the hang of it and don't have the patience to learn. Well back to making faeries. When this next 4 day show is over, then I can take my iron in and have a new tip put on it. Thanks for all the advise. Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 28 22:14:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:02:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!cecnralph From: Cecily and Ralph Wood To: Bungi Glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Subject: Re: glue chipping in the US Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 01:10:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep28.211031.0> References: <<1999Sep27.234821.0>> Organization: Grendel Studios Precedence: bulk I know that animal glue is used, and I know you can get a large chipped effect or a small one. Is horse glue used for the larger chip effect and rabbit glue used for the smaller? I know (back in the old days) when we used to make canvas flats for theatre sets we used horse glue, and for canvases for oil painting (real ART ), using essentially the same technique, used the finer rabbit glue. And to prepare either glue you had to take the sprinkles (kind of like dried coffee only butterscotch color) and boil it and you had to keep it warm, and smmeeeeelllllll......gak! Describe the sound. please. Is it a pixilated sound, or click/tick, or a susurration? Interesting. barbara elmore wrote: > Carolina Glue Chip is in my own backyard, so to speak, > in North Wilkesboro, NC, and they make a ton of glue > chip and even chip other manufacturers glass. They > also own a factory in China. > > I was given a short tour of how glue chipping is done, > and doubt if I will ever try it at home. It literally > stinks from the glue! The drying room where the > chipping actually occurs is fascinating to "listen" to > as the chips fly off! > > Barbara Elmore > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- ********************************************************************* * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) ********************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Sep 28 22:45:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:10:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!cecnralph From: Cecily and Ralph Wood To: Gordon Newell , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Subject: Re: Backlighting a cabinet Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 01:18:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep28.211819.0> References: <<1999Sep29.104835.0>> Organization: Grendel Studios Precedence: bulk I think I'd be inclined to use Xmas tree lights - the tiny clear fairy light ones (NOT twinkling). Either do them around the edges and shelf at the back, or just make a tangle. I saw a high class/high priced stained glass exhibit at one of the big international craft shows, and the gal had simply left the lights in a tangle (au natural) behind her panels, and it was spectacular. Also there would be very little heat at all. Plus super simple and cheap. Gordon Newell wrote: > G'Day, > > Originally our new entertainment unit had two doors with plain glass > inserts. I have since replaced these with a circular copper foil rose on a > frosted glass background, with the rest of the panel leaded up with the > original clear glass cut into quarters. > > Now it looks fine during the day, but I would like to 'backlight' it in the > evening. > > Does the group have any suggestions, ideas, do's/don'ts? > > Regards > > Gordon. > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- ********************************************************************* * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) ********************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 00:17:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:55:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net (synergyglass) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: teaching help please Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:05:38 -0700 Message-ID: <199909290505.WAA23185@mimas.island.net> Precedence: bulk Well, all. I just got home from teaching my first s.g. class. What a blast it is to watch people's eyes light up when that first score works, or when they dig out a deep inside curve successfully! I have two women in their late 50s that are having problems with the cutter. Neither one of them seems to be able to apply enough pressure or to turn their wrists enough to make the deep scores for an inside curve. With one woman her cutter skittles across the glass partway through the curve. I showed them both the fist grip as an alternative to the regular cutting hold and they seemed able to get a little more pressure but not much control. I tried everything I could think of...body position and followthrough, holding my hand over hers on the cutter to show her what it would feel like to make the cut successfully, etc. One woman tried my pistol grip cutter and liked it, the other didn't like it at all. I'm wondering what suggestions more experienced teachers might have? Thanks in advance C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 02:16:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 01:53:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.bright.net!joyce From: glasscc To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: teaching help please Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:55:43 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990929045542.0069b7e0@mail.bright.net> Precedence: bulk >I have two women in their late 50s that are having problems with the cutter. >Neither one of them seems to be able to apply enough pressure or to turn >their wrists enough to make the deep scores for an inside curve. With one >woman her cutter skittles across the glass partway through the curve. I >showed them both the fist grip as an alternative to the regular cutting hold >and they seemed able to get a little more pressure but not much control. I >tried everything I could think of...body position and followthrough, holding >my hand over hers on the cutter to show her what it would feel like to make >the cut successfully, etc. > >One woman tried my pistol grip cutter and liked it, the other didn't like it >at all. > >I'm wondering what suggestions more experienced teachers might have? How about playing some soothing music during class to relieve stress? I find that using the thumb of my opposite hand to guide the wheel helps on curves. How about letting her go into another room, where no one is watching her, and let her practice? How about standing up so that she can put her body weight into it, instead of the fingers only. I usually only offer the women the pistol grip cutters because I think that less is involved with them....but to each his own! I really think that her problem is psychological, and until she overcomes her fear of cutting glass, all our suggestions aren't going to help too much. I think practice, practice practice is in order! And then if all else fails, cheat with the grinder. Joyce Garden of Glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 06:16:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 05:46:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzy To: "synergyglass" , "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: teaching help please Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:43:48 -0400 Message-ID: <199909291242.IAA21535@smu0102.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk >I have two women in their late 50s that are having problems with the cutter. (snip) >I'm wondering what suggestions more experienced teachers might have? Hi Carol, I haven't taught anyone who can't get used to the pistol grip. And I've taught people in their late 70's. Are they cutting against a pattern to keep their cutter on target? The only suggestion I can think of is to send them home with some pattern pieces and thin scrap glass (some nice mouth-blown antique would be easy, haha) and a pistol grip and ask them to practice. Make sure they understand the cutter must be perpendicular to the glass and pressure steady. Regards, Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 07:18:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 05:46:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: suzy To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: to clarify Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:47:14 -0400 Message-ID: <199909291245.IAA21772@smu0102.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk >I have been switching fluxes lately, cause I just don't like any as >yet. Next to try is canfield flux. I don't like Gladstar it feels >sticky on my hands(I know I should wear gloves). I am using >Laco-brite(something like that)right now and it is too watery. I have >tried the paste, but it just falls off. I haven't got the hang of it >and don't have the patience to learn. Try a gel flux, it's halfway between watery and paste. Flex=o-Matic comes to mind, but there's another, cheaper one that works just as well. Regards, Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 07:21:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 06:11:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: glue chipping in the US Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:09:47 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep29.13947.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 9/29/99 1:18:47 AM, cecnralph@home.com writes: >Describe the sound. please. Is it a pixilated sound, or click/tick, or >a susurration? Interesting. > >barbara elmore wrote: > >> [...] The drying room where the >> chipping actually occurs is fascinating to "listen" to >> as the chips fly off! Yeah, my enquiring mind wants to know too! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 07:45:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 06:55:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ceps.nasm.edu!jellison From: PJ Jellison To: synergyglass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: teaching help please Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:55:41 -0400 Message-ID: <37F21A5C.DB958AA5@ceps.nasm.edu> References: <<199909290505.WAA23185@mimas.island.net>> Organization: Smithsonian Institution Precedence: bulk Hi Carol, I'm not a S.G. teacher, in fact I'm a beginner but I had the same problem as your two students -- I have very weak wrists and shoulders due to old injuries. I found that confidence *was* a big part of it but so was the table height -- I got much better at cutting as soon as I lowered my work surface, lower than seems right to most people. It let me get that control that I needed. (Now that I've got a bit more experience, I can use a regular workbench.) Hope this helps! Best of luck with your class -- to me, teaching of any kind is the most totally satisfying occupation possible (a warning here, it's also highly addictive! ) From the first bit of your post, I'll wager you're going to be very good at it. Cheers, PJ Jellison synergyglass wrote: > > Well, all. I just got home from teaching my first s.g. class. What a blast > it is to watch people's eyes light up when that first score works, or when > they dig out a deep inside curve successfully! > > I have two women in their late 50s that are having problems with the cutter. > Neither one of them seems to be able to apply enough pressure or to turn > their wrists enough to make the deep scores for an inside curve. With one > woman her cutter skittles across the glass partway through the curve.. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 07:45:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 06:29:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: heesun.com!keane From: "Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd." To: "glasscc" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: teaching help please Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:22:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.5229.0> Precedence: bulk A few things to check on, make sure the tables aren't too high for them as this can really make cutting a bear. Also if the cutter skittles (slides) across the glass through a curve , they are allowing the cutter to lean and the cutting wheel is no longer perpendicular to the glass and thus it has a tendency to slide across the glass. This can be easily determined by observing their technique either from the front or the rear and paying particular attention to the cutters angle as it progresses through the curve. Even with a lot of pressure the cutter will slide if it is allowed to move away from being perpendicular to the glass. Get them to practice long gradual curves and as they master those progress them up to more drastic curves, making sure they master each "level" before progressing to the next. You might also consider trying the Thomas Grip Supercutter by Toyo as its compact size makes it easy to hold and is sometimes not as cumbersome. Also there is a new cutter out from Toyo expected to hit distributors in October that is a Thomas grip design only the saddle is adjustable and the cutting head is the tap head design. We recently had a chance to try it out at a show and loved it. Should work great whether one has large or small hands. As far as cutters go we also usually have about 5-6 different cutters for they class to try before they purchase their own, this allows them to find a cutter that best suits them. We put out Toyo Pistol Grip, Toyo Acrylic Supercutter, Toyo Thomas Grip Supercutter, Fletcher "Gold Tip" Designer II, Fletcher Gold Tip ( die cast ), and the Toyo Brass Supercutter. This seems to work well as most will find a cutter that suits them and they can try many until they are happy. We teach a lot of seniors and usually have them all cutting not only straight lines but some pretty nice curves after about 2 hours of practice. If all else fails there are two cutters on the market which require very little effort to use, the Score One by Inland and The Cutters Mate. Neither is inexpensive and should be used only as a last resort as the Cutters Mate runs about $225.00 and the Score One about $72.00. Hope this helps. Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd. 888-508-5595 http://www.heesun.com Custom Design Studio ,Supplies & Classes for Stained & Fused Glass & Mosaics ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 07:49:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 07:23:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: synergyglass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: teaching help please Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:23:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.6233.0> References: <<199909290505.WAA23185@mimas.island.net>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk synergyglass wrote: > > Well, all. I just got home from teaching my first s.g. class. What a blast > it is to watch people's eyes light up when that first score works, or when > they dig out a deep inside curve successfully! > > I have two women in their late 50s that are having problems with the cutter. > Neither one of them seems to be able to apply enough pressure or to turn > their wrists enough to make the deep scores for an inside curve. With one > woman her cutter skittles across the glass partway through the curve. I > showed them both the fist grip as an alternative to the regular cutting hold > and they seemed able to get a little more pressure but not much control. I > tried everything I could think of...body position and followthrough, holding > my hand over hers on the cutter to show her what it would feel like to make > the cut successfully, etc. > > One woman tried my pistol grip cutter and liked it, the other didn't like it > at all. > > I'm wondering what suggestions more experienced teachers might have? > > Thanks in advance > > C. > Carol Swann > Synergy Glass & Creative > www.igga.org/synergy > seaspray@island.net > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass as with anything it takes practice. when i was aiding in the summer workshop, we had kids. alot of them quite short and it was difficult to get a good score. but over time they got better. you might want to give them a shorter table, or a box to stand on. it will let them get pressure on the glass. tell them to lean on the cutter using their shoulder. wrist kept locked in place. elbow allowed to move a little. and when doing a curve, move your whole body. when cutting a deep curve, posistion the glass so the curve is towards you, and guide your thumb with your other thumb. as a steering guide. or of course, they may simply not be ready for deep inside curves. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are also a lot of new Sky City pictures. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 08:15:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 07:37:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Fluxes Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:34:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.63423.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Shirley Balloch >I have been switching fluxes lately, cause I just don't like any as yet. Next to try is canfield flux.< I've been trying out the new non-zinc Canfield flux, which they were giving away as samples at the recent Warner-Crivellaro "Glass Visions" and Studio Design "Open House" events. I LOVE this liquid flux. So do my 2 assistants. Works well on both copper foil and lead. Next to nothing fumes. Almost no bubbling. Very easy cleanup. What's not to like? Can't wait till they put it on the market. Christie Wood/Art Glass Ensembles 405 E. Walnut St. Rear North Wales, PA 19454 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 08:18:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 07:16:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: Cecily and Ralph Wood Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: glue chipping in the US Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:15:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.61551.0> References: <<1999Sep28.211031.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Cecily and Ralph Wood wrote: > > I know that animal glue is used, and I know you can get a large chipped > effect or a small one. Is horse glue used for the larger chip effect > and rabbit glue used for the smaller? I know (back in the old days) > when we used to make canvas flats for theatre sets we used horse glue, > and for canvases for oil painting (real ART ), using essentially the > same technique, used the finer rabbit glue. And to prepare either glue > you had to take the sprinkles (kind of like dried coffee only > butterscotch color) and boil it and you had to keep it warm, and > smmeeeeelllllll......gak! > > Describe the sound. please. Is it a pixilated sound, or click/tick, or > a susurration? Interesting. > > barbara elmore wrote: > > > Carolina Glue Chip is in my own backyard, so to speak, > > in North Wilkesboro, NC, and they make a ton of glue > > chip and even chip other manufacturers glass. They > > also own a factory in China. > > > > I was given a short tour of how glue chipping is done, > > and doubt if I will ever try it at home. It literally > > stinks from the glue! The drying room where the > > chipping actually occurs is fascinating to "listen" to > > as the chips fly off! > > > > Barbara Elmore > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > -- > ********************************************************************* > * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood > * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) > ********************************************************************* > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass single glue chip is made up by putting the hot glue on sand blasted glass. double gluechip, is simply doing that a second time over the first chipping. i'd personally like to see it done, i've seen windows that were partly chipped, and the rest blasted, pretty neat. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are also a lot of new Sky City pictures. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 08:57:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 07:17:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: Dimitrovich Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Foiler Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:17:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.61723.0> References: <<1999Sep28.18252.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Dimitrovich wrote: > > Does anyone have any comments - positive and negative on these two foilers: > Inland EdgeMaster II Foiler and the Glasfoiler? > > I'd like to hear some opinions regarding these. I'm buying one of them > tomorrow. > > Thanks so much. > > Pamela > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i think i heard that the inland one was junk, kept mis tracking the pieces. the other one i never heard of. the best i heard of is the diegal (sp) foiler, made in germany, fairly expensive, but well built. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are also a lot of new Sky City pictures. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 09:21:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:35:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne Gunn To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: to clarify Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:34:01 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.5341.0> References: <<199909291245.IAA21772@smu0102.ComCAT.COM>> Precedence: bulk I use Canfields blue glass flux. It is thin..but it works wonderfully, is water soluable, and clean up is a breeze. I prefer it over glastar flux. T Suzanne > I have been switching fluxes lately, cause I just don't like any as > >yet. Next to try is canfield flux. I don't like Gladstar it feels > >sticky on my hands(I know I should wear gloves). ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 09:32:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:03:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: "Modiano, Victor" To: Bungi Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: Fluxes Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:40:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.74051.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF0A91.02F6F35C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I tried it once and while there were no fumes the smell awful. Every thing else was great though. Haven't tried it again. Vic M. -----Original Message----- From: Christie A. Wood [mailto:Ensembles@compuserve.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 10:34 AM To: Bungi Subject: Fluxes Message text written by Shirley Balloch >I have been switching fluxes lately, cause I just don't like any as yet. Next to try is canfield flux.< I've been trying out the new non-zinc Canfield flux, which they were giving away as samples at the recent Warner-Crivellaro "Glass Visions" and Studio Design "Open House" events. I LOVE this liquid flux. So do my 2 assistants. Works well on both copper foil and lead. Next to nothing fumes. Almost no bubbling. Very easy cleanup. What's not to like? Can't wait till they put it on the market. Christie Wood/Art Glass Ensembles 405 E. Walnut St. Rear North Wales, PA 19454 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF0A91.02F6F35C Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: Fluxes

I tried it once and while there were no fumes the smell awful.
Every thing else was great though. Haven't tried it again.

Vic M.

-----Original Message-----
From: Christie A. Wood [mailto:Ensembles@compuserve.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 10:34 AM
To: Bungi
Subject: Fluxes


Message text written by Shirley Balloch
>I have been switching fluxes lately, cause I just don't like any as
yet.  Next to try is canfield flux.<

I've been trying out the new non-zinc Canfield flux, which they were
giving away as samples at the recent Warner-Crivellaro "Glass
Visions" and Studio Design "Open House" events.  I LOVE this
liquid flux.  So do my 2 assistants.  Works well on both copper
foil and lead.  Next to nothing fumes.  Almost no bubbling.  Very
easy cleanup.  What's not to like?  Can't wait till they put it on
the market.

Christie Wood/Art Glass Ensembles
405 E. Walnut St. Rear
North Wales, PA 19454
http://www.igga.org/wood/
----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

------_=_NextPart_001_01BF0A91.02F6F35C-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 10:03:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:24:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: "Modiano, Victor" To: 'bungi' Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: teaching help please Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:44:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.7448.0> Precedence: bulk Any word on this from the retailers on the list. Am anxiously waiting to get one. Vic M. -----Original Message----- From: Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd. [mailto:keane@heesun.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 9:22 AM To: glasscc; glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: teaching help please Also there is a new cutter out from Toyo expected to hit distributors in October that is a Thomas grip design only the saddle is adjustable and the cutting head is the tap head design. We recently had a chance to try it out at a show and loved it. Should work great whether one has large or small hands. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 10:32:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:51:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!christkaiser From: Chris Kaiser To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: glue chipping sound Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:06:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep29.2640.0> Precedence: bulk Its been awhile since I gluechipped...but if I remember right, it makes a zipper sound, then a "pink" sound as it pops off...just like popcorn too! Right up in the air. =P ps...Bunny Glue!?! :-O Its all horse glue, you adjust the recipe for different effects. > > >Describe the sound. please. Is it a pixilated > sound, or click/tick, or > >a susurration? Interesting. > > > > > >> [...] The drying room where the > >> chipping actually occurs is fascinating to > "listen" to > >> as the chips fly off! > > Yeah, my enquiring mind wants to know too! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 10:54:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:08:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net (synergyglass) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: THANKS for the suggestions Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:08:31 -0700 Message-ID: <199909291708.KAA13312@mimas.island.net> Precedence: bulk Hi all. Bungi is like magic! I love being part of this group, and I can't tell you all how helpful you've been over the last 2 1/2 years. I guess it's the time difference between east coast/west coast, but while I slept the answers poured on line. Thanks all so much for replying, I've read them all twice. Your replies have been helpful in two ways. First, I tried many of the suggestions during the course working with these women so your posts reinforce for me that I am ready to be teaching. I was a little worried I might get a post that says...if you have to ask that question, you shouldn't be teaching :) :) I don't think table height is an issue here...they're nice and low, too low for my taste, but it is possible to get lots of leverage. I'm teaching in the basement of our local community center and the tables we use are standard hall issue with collapsible legs. The local broomball group plays over our heads, followed by the cadets marching and drilling. I think I WILL take some soothing music next week. These 2 women were the only ones getting frustrated, and the first took to the pistol grip like a duck to water...problem solved. I also suggested people take breaks if they felt themselves becoming frustrated and kept an eagle eye out to make sure I got to people having problems. The second woman is the one I really worked with...she didn't like the pistol grip or the barrel toyo I had available so we stayed with the basic cutter I included in their materials kit. I checked her arm position and her cutter position at the moment in the curve the skidding always started...sure enough it wasn't vertial, so we did another cut with my hand over hers so she could feel the difference. I drew another gentler cut for her to work on. I feel it's important that my students have early successes, not early frustrations. As for teaching, I think it's in my blood. My dad is a retired high school metalwork teacher who now handcrafts classical guitars as a hobby. I've always loved showing people whatever I'm doing in my work life, be it marine biology or glass. Guess it's a passion of mine. Elisabeth...you'll be proud of me. No grinders (yet). They will do their first project start to finish without a grinder. It's a star with all straight cuts. Once they've learned it's a tool not a crutch I'll bring the grinder in for touching up pieces. I have 2 students who've had classes a few years ago and they looked quite worried and asked for the grinder a couple of times while they were working on the practice cuts I gave them. Again, thanks all for your suggestions and for the positive reinforcement you've given me in my knowledge. C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 12:21:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:29:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Teaching help please Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:26:19 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.32619.0> Precedence: bulk >>you might want to give them a shorter table, or a box to stand on. << I have work tables that are are about 4' X 8' x 36 1/2" high. I also have a portable step that is 1' X 8' X 4" high that goes on the floor to effectively lower the table for shorter people. It is simply a piece of 3/4" plywood with two strips of wood screwed on to make the step. I have had many people thank me for introducing them to the Toyo Pistol Grip Supercutter. I like mine too. Bob in SOCAL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 13:38:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:13:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: directios for glue chipping? Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:11:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.11114.0> Precedence: bulk Sorry, everyone, I forgot to forward the following to the group...... ~ Dani -------------Forwarded Message----------------- From: Dani Greer, = To: INTERNET:maruca@netaxs.com, INTERNET:maruca@netaxs.com = Date: 9/27/99 2:09 PM RE: directios for glue chipping? Dear Mary, Here's how you do custom glue chipping - very nice, for example, around etched/sand- blasted areas of a window: The basis method - frost the glass using a = sandblaster. Then soak hide glue in water, heat it until it stinks to high heaven (melts), apply it to the frosted side of the glass, and let it dry. It will chip by itself... brush off the glue and glass chips when completely dry. Other details - the usual proportion of glue to water is 2 parts glue to 1 part water **by weight. Put glue into water and let it soak up all the water. Heat in a double boiler. Use any old brush that you don't care about to brush on the glue. Typically, a coating depth of about 1/16 to 1/8 inch is suitable. Variables that effect the results are coarseness and depth of the frost, temperature of the glass when the glue is applied (warm is good), the type of glue used (you can use rabbit skin, fish, or hide glue in various strengths - all somewhat difficult but not impossible to obtain at places like art supply stores, glass suppliers, glue companies, etc.). Other variables are the proportion of glue to water, the temperature at which the glue is applied, and whether you boiled the glue (or not, which is = preferrable). And harder to control, is the temperature and humidity in the room in which you are doing the chipping. Last but not least, perverse quirks of cosmic fate also effect the chipping process! What this should tell you is that it is almost impossible to match a glue chip texture from one batch (or one company) to the next. A note of caution, if you have areas of glass that are not to be chipped, be sure and mask well as often even un-frosted glass will chip somewhat....... also, when the glue starts popping off the glass, it is quite dramatic and starts flinging glue chips across the room! We usually do this procedure before leaving for the day, to find the process complete the next morning. Well, there it is, probably more than you asked for thanks to my beloved... He also thinks glue-chipping is a fortuitous mistake of some artist who was trying to prime a piece of glass to use as a canvas for painting. Anyone know how/why glue chip was really invented? Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 13:40:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:14:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Christie A. Wood" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Fluxes Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:10:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.111057.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Christie A. Wood" > I've been trying out the new non-zinc Canfield flux, which they were giving away as samples at the recent Warner-Crivellaro "Glass Visions" and Studio Design "Open House" events. I LOVE this liquid flux. So do my 2 assistants. Works well on both copper foil and lead. Next to nothing fumes. Almost no bubbling. Very easy cleanup. What's not to like? Can't wait till they put it on the market. < Can you contact Canfield for some samples and do a review on this for CGG? We'll let them know when we publish the article and perhaps they will buy an ad also... let me know what you think. Best, Dani ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 14:20:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:39:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: heesun.com!keane From: "Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd." To: "Modiano, Victor" , "'bungi'" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: New Toyo Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:32:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.113255.0> Precedence: bulk From: Modiano, Victor To: 'bungi' Date: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 1:43 PM Subject: RE: teaching help please >Any word on this from the retailers on the list. >Am anxiously waiting to get one. Just checked with our supplier and they are predicting end of October beginning of November due in part to the fact that these are imported from Asia and we all know how customs can be. BTW the cost is said to be about the same as the Toyo pistol grip. Robert (Whose already got a list of customers waiting for them.) Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd. 888-508-5595 http://www.heesun.com Custom Design Studio , Supplies & Classes for Stained & Fused Glass & Mosaics ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 18:08:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:39:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: heesun.com!keane From: "Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd." To: "Modiano, Victor" , "'bungi'" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: New Toyo Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:32:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.113255.0> Precedence: bulk From: Modiano, Victor To: 'bungi' Date: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 1:43 PM Subject: RE: teaching help please >Any word on this from the retailers on the list. >Am anxiously waiting to get one. Just checked with our supplier and they are predicting end of October beginning of November due in part to the fact that these are imported from Asia and we all know how customs can be. BTW the cost is said to be about the same as the Toyo pistol grip. Robert (Whose already got a list of customers waiting for them.) Hee Sun Stained Glass, Ltd. 888-508-5595 http://www.heesun.com Custom Design Studio , Supplies & Classes for Stained & Fused Glass & Mosaics ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 18:12:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:31:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!gcanvas From: "James C. Kelly" To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Foil/Lead Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:30:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.123015.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all, A question about panels in which both foil and lead have been utilized. What is the usual finish you use on the foil part of these projects? Meaning if you plan to use black cement on the lead do you always patina the foil solder black? Or do you ever leave the foil solder shiny and still use a dark lead cement? Or do you use an other than black = cement on the lead when you plan to leave the foil solder shiny? Hope this is not too stupid or too many questions. I am doing a panel with the interior foiled and the bevel periphery in lead and would like to leave the interior foil with a shiny appearance but am not sure how to properly finish the lead portion. = Your responses are always appreciated. JIm Jim Kelly Virginia Beach VA gcanvas@compuserve.com Wednesday, September 29, 1999 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 18:17:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:35:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: synergyglass Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: THANKS for the suggestions Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:33:06 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.12336.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by synergyglass >No grinders (yet). They will do their first project start to finish without a grinder. It's a star with all straight cuts. Once they've learned it's a tool not a crutch I'll bring the grinder in for touching up pieces.< Go, girl! I'm proud of you, too. We need more teachers with your attitude. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 18:36:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:05:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass From: "K See" To: "Dimitrovich" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Foiler & flux Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:02:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.1427.0> References: <<1999Sep28.18252.0>> Precedence: bulk I have two models. The Inland & the Glastar, both were given to me. I just can't get comfortable with either one. They are both probably the first version of each. With both you have to put your glass into a slot guide, no adjustment. There is another foiler out there where it has a pin guide that you adjust for glass. Who out there has this one? I use a Glastar Hand Foiler. All the suppliers carry it & it's under $10 comes in three sizes. I have always used Fluxomatic-SG. It goes a long way. It is a "colorless semi-liquid. Fumeless, non-acid, non-evaporating & water wash off" you can use it with mirror without the mirror rot. My Common Ground is here so I have to go.....quick run through then on to finish a commission to be delivered tomorrow night. KSee "It is not true that life is one damn thing after another..it's one damn thing over and over." Edna St. Vincent Millay (1892-1952) ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 19:02:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:00:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: coyote.chilcotin.bc.ca!rosemary From: rosemary neads To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: teaching help please Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:00:20 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.9020.0> Precedence: bulk Hi, I have muscle problems also, as I have FMS. The pistol grip definitely works better for me--some people just need to get used to it. For control, sometimes people use a finger on their other hand to help guide the cutter, especially on those inside cuts. And you might try having your ladies take a few slow deep breaths first to relax and then make their cut JUST after an exhalation and before inhaling. Make sure they don't have a death grip on the cutter! and that their hands are warm. Good luck! Rosemary, Precipice Valley, B.C. > *********************** Humans divorced from nature lose their vital juices --Bruce Hutchison *********************** ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 19:16:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:07:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: twinwolf.net!dimitrovich From: "Dimitrovich" To: Subject: Vicki Payne TV Show - Flint, Michigan Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:40:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.154036.0> Precedence: bulk I just found out we have Flint PBS on our cable here in the Detroit area. Does anyone in the Flint, Michigan area know when "Stained Glass with Vicki Payne" is on? Thanks, Pamela ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 19:27:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:08:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Dani Greer" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: directios for glue chipping? Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:02:51 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.10251.0> Precedence: bulk >>Anyone know how/why glue chip was really invented?<< Yes, My great grandfather Robert Duchesneau discovered glue chipping is 1878 in Providence, RI. According to my grandfather, Joseph Duchesneau, great grandfather was working in his wagon wheel repair shed one August day and spilled some horsehide glue on a piece of glass. The next morning the glass was chipped very nicely. He showed it to my great grandmother Louise and she said, "Go back to work you old fool. We got enough troubles now." A couple of years later another Frenchman had the same accident but no wife. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 *The future ain't what it used to be and it never will be again.* Check it out: http://glass.intrastar.net/bob/indexpage1.htm ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 19:47:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:17:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pro-ns.net!jdahlin From: "J. Dahlin" To: "Christie A. Wood" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Fluxes Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:43:24 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.134324.0> References: <<1999Sep29.63423.0>> Precedence: bulk I also got a sample of the new product at Glass Visions, but I thought it was just for zinc and as the projects I was working on were all with lead or foil, I haven't tried it yet. After hearing your comments I am anxious to try it this weekend. I have liked using the Canfield Blue flux but have found it to leave a milky residue on the solder afterward. It also seems to build up a residue quickly on lead came that I don't particularly like. Thanks for sharing your comments. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 20:22:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:09:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!vlg From: "Vincent LaGreca" To: "Dani Greer" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: directios for glue chipping? Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:09:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.18915.0> Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Date: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 6:06 PM Subject: directios for glue chipping? >preferrable). And harder to control, is the temperature >and humidity in the room in which you are doing the >chipping. Last but not least, perverse quirks of cosmic >fate also effect the chipping process! What this should >tell you is that it is almost impossible to match a glue >chip texture from one batch (or one company) to the >next. A note of caution, if you have areas of glass >that are not to be chipped, be sure and mask well as >often even un-frosted glass will chip somewhat....... >also, when the glue starts popping off the glass, it >is quite dramatic and starts flinging glue chips across >the room! We usually do this procedure before leaving >for the day, to find the process complete the next >morning. Dani: I live in the NE on a lake front property. The humidity and moisture here is a constant problem. I could wait forever for hide glue to dry enough to chip glass. To solve this problem, I have used large plastic leaf/garbage bags to enclose the pieces and placed desiccant in the bag with them. It has worked out well for me. The chipping glass stays in the bag and away from my dogs mouth. Ciao Vic > >>---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 20:25:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:47:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "James C. Kelly" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Foil/Lead Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:44:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.174412.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Jim, Haven't heard from you in a while! When we combine lead and foil in one panel, = we just cement the entire panel and the cement seems to patina the copperfoil in the same step.... it all ends up looking very integrated, very nice. And the secret to really nice looking copperfoil is to polish like crazy with a soft flannel cloth or a = cloth diaper.... polishes up a fair treat as Elisabeth would say! Now, if you want the interior to remain silver, you must go back in with steel wool and rub off the darkening. Hope that helps! Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 20:59:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:31:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass From: "K See" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Common Ground Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:27:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.182729.0> Precedence: bulk Kudos to all who participated in this issue of the Common Ground -Glass Summer 1999. Love all the articles, letters. This has to be one of best issues yet!!!! KSee "It is not true that life is one damn thing after another..it's one damn thing over and over." Edna St. Vincent Millay (1892-1952) ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 21:21:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:46:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!cecnralph From: Cecily and Ralph Wood To: Dimitrovich , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Subject: Re: Foiler Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:53:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.185317.0> References: <<1999Sep28.18252.0>> Organization: Grendel Studios Precedence: bulk I like the Diegel (sp?). I do have the Inland - thought it would be easier for when I draft my husband into foiling - on family projects like Xmas presents, because it seems to guide the glass and help keep it perpendicular to the foil, but instead, the guides are so close that it is nearly impossible to pull the glass through along with the foil. It also purports to help push the foil down on the sides, but I find it crumples rather than smoothly turn the edges down. I considerably improved it by taking the guides off and over to my ring saw, where I chewed a larger curving entrance path for the glass - made the opening V'd at the front and also top down. I made one guide for thicker glass and wider foil, and the other one somewhat smaller for thinner pieces. Dimitrovich wrote: > Does anyone have any comments - positive and negative on these two foilers: > Inland EdgeMaster II Foiler and the Glasfoiler? > > I'd like to hear some opinions regarding these. I'm buying one of them > tomorrow. > > Thanks so much. > > Pamela > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- ********************************************************************* * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) ********************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 21:31:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:55:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!cecnralph From: Cecily and Ralph Wood To: synergyglass , Bungi Glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Subject: Re: teaching help please Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 23:03:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.19320.0> References: <<199909290505.WAA23185@mimas.island.net>> Organization: Grendel Studios Precedence: bulk They probably have arthritic hands (or carpel tunnel) and those of us with that problem often have little hand strungth and it fades after heavy use. I like the pistol grip cutter from Inland - it has an extra little bump that just fits the underside of the forefinger knuckle where the finger joins the hand, and allows extra pressure to be exerted without finger strength. Another cutter is the cute little one with a sort of saddle top effect, and I've used it holding it in various positions and have seen others do the same. Whatever works. A very expensive alternative and not one for beginners who don't want (shouldn't) to invest a great deal in something they may not stick with, is the Cutter's Mate. It takes some getting used to, but requires very little strength because the head is weighted. It also maintains the perpendicular, both side to side and front to back, which also may plague these women because they probably have arthritic wrists also. Or carpel tunnel. synergyglass wrote: > Well, all. I just got home from teaching my first s.g. class. What a blast > it is to watch people's eyes light up when that first score works, or when > they dig out a deep inside curve successfully! > > I have two women in their late 50s that are having problems with the cutter. > Neither one of them seems to be able to apply enough pressure or to turn > their wrists enough to make the deep scores for an inside curve. With one > woman her cutter skittles across the glass partway through the curve. I > showed them both the fist grip as an alternative to the regular cutting hold > and they seemed able to get a little more pressure but not much control. I > tried everything I could think of...body position and followthrough, holding > my hand over hers on the cutter to show her what it would feel like to make > the cut successfully, etc. > > One woman tried my pistol grip cutter and liked it, the other didn't like it > at all. > > I'm wondering what suggestions more experienced teachers might have? > > Thanks in advance > > C. > Carol Swann > Synergy Glass & Creative > www.igga.org/synergy > seaspray@island.net > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- ********************************************************************* * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) ********************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 22:02:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:56:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: teaching help please Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:55:53 -0700 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk > >>>I have two women in their late 50s that are having problems with the cutter. I found folks more nervous/cautious on their *first* time trying cutting glass. And growth in their confidence and strength really seem noticable by just the second time... Have fun with it...teaching:) Cindy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Sep 29 23:32:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:56:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: twinwolf.net!dimitrovich From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" To: Subject: Ring Saw vs Band Saw Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 01:28:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep29.212847.0> Precedence: bulk As always, I pose the question to the group to get feedback on products. Which is better and/or what are the major differences/positives/negatives of a ring saw Vs band saw? I'm looking at a Diamond Laser 3000 band saw and a Taurus II.2 ring saw. All diatribes will be welcomed. Thanks. Pamela ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 05:26:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 05:12:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Fluxes Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:11:01 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.4111.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Dani Greer >Can you contact Canfield for some samples and do a review on this for CGG? We'll let them know when we publish the article and perhaps they will buy an ad also... let me know what you think.< I did that in an email to them today. Am awaiting their reply, plus the MSDS on it too. Christie Wood/Art Glass Ensembles 405 E. Walnut St. Rear North Wales, PA 19454 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 05:58:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 05:41:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Foil/Lead Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:37:51 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep30.123751.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 9/29/99 11:27:07 PM, GreerStudios@compuserve.com writes: >the secret >to really nice looking copperfoil is to polish >like crazy with a soft flannel cloth or a >cloth diaper.... polishes up a fair treat as >Elisabeth would say! I've found that a natural-bristle shoe brush (another of E's suggestions) works even better, especially for getting the last of the polish-residue haze off the glass right next to the solder bead. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 06:27:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 05:49:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!gwood From: "Gregg Wood" To: "Glass @ Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Foiler Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:47:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.44740.0> References: <<1999Sep29.185317.0>> Precedence: bulk (edit... edit...edit...edit...edit...edit...) > > Does anyone have any comments - positive and negative on these two foilers: > > Inland EdgeMaster II Foiler and the Glasfoiler? (End of edit...edit...edit...edit...edit...) I have the Inland. The little flip down 'guides' mangle more than anything else. I tried modifications but none seems adequate. I took them off & pitched'em the box & haven't seen'em since. I just use the slot in the wheel. This works fine for most glass but with glass 'just a little bit wider than the slot, it tends to CUT the foil instead of folding it over. Oh, well. With a few adjustments on my technique it seems to work fine for me. I don't let it fold the foil down completely and go over it with a Qwik-Crimp afterward. It leaves the foil a 'bit' wrinkled but it's under the solder and the visible edge itself is smooth. Saves me a lot of time. -G ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 07:01:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 06:39:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mindspring.com!pigznpawz From: "Jerri" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: first time teaching experience Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:39:27 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.53927.0> Precedence: bulk The local glass shop has asked me about teaching a beginning class, maybe in January. They asked me to figure out what supplies will be needed, what I wanted for a fee............... I have no idea of what to charge for me. For those of you that have taught, do you pay yourself hourly or what? Also, do you think there should be a supply fee or that supplies should be provided. I think I could keep the supply fee low, except for the didyium glasses, but then I would hate for someone to have to buy them (they're what? about $40?) and then find out they hate lampwork and don't want to do it. I've never done kind of thing before. I was thinking, the next time someone asks about my beads, I'm going to tell them I give private lessons from home. I couldn't teach a class at home, but I sure could take one student at a time. Any thoughts, suggestions, opinions? Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 08:02:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:14:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: Pamela Dimitrovich Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:09:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.6915.0> References: <<1999Sep29.212847.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Pamela Dimitrovich wrote: > > As always, I pose the question to the group to get feedback on products. > > Which is better and/or what are the major differences/positives/negatives of > a ring saw Vs band saw? I'm looking at a Diamond Laser 3000 band saw and a > Taurus II.2 ring saw. > > All diatribes will be welcomed. > > Thanks. > > Pamela > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i'll be doing a page on this soon - here's the basic outline: ringsaw pros: - cut's in all directions - cut's very quickly - has a large worksurface and deep throat - has a large water supply - water does'nt pile up on the glass - blade doesn't twist like other's - blade isn't as expensive as other's cons: - the blade is thicker then a bandsaw blade, more glass is wasted. it would be bad if you were cutting expensive dichro, or cutting apart fused jewelry. - you need to buy replacement bushings, which can be expensive. - it's loud, i wear hearing protectors for it. - the blade is round, which means you may need to grind smooth areas due to bumps. a plain bandsaw (any kind): pro: - thin blade design allows for accurate cut's and not alot of waste. - i think they're a bit quieter - less maintance - just needs blade - most have removbable water tray, making it easier to simply dump out. the ringsaw needs to be carried and dumped to clean it out. cons: - blades can easily twist and break - blades can loose track easily, there is never enough tension on the blade, it can move out on you when backing out of a cut. - you can't take a slight edge off a piece of glass, the blade is too flexible. - the blades are more expensive to replace. - the work surface, though can be large, is often not as large as the ringsaw. my vote still goes for the ringsaw. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are also a lot of new Sky City pictures. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 08:31:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:17:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: hotmail.com!marybdaily From: "Mary B" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Subject: Common Ground Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:15:28 EDT Message-ID: <1999Sep30.141528.0> Precedence: bulk I have been lurking in the bungi background for the past several months and have very much enjoyed the threads posted and learned a lot about sg, as well as e-mail groups. Being relatively new to the cyberworld and sg, my learning curve is somewhat broad. Could you please explain the meaning of "Common Ground?" Thanks! MarybinVA ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 08:50:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:07:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mindspring.com!pigznpawz From: "Jerri" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: first time teaching experience Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:05:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.7557.0> References: <<000d01bf0b55$2f3fcfa0$301056d1@hal>> Precedence: bulk I left out a piece of important information. This would be a beginning *beadmaking* class. I'd bettter get some more coffee. Jerri > > > > The local glass shop has asked me about teaching a beginning class, maybe > in > > January. > > They asked me to figure out what supplies will be needed, what I wanted > for > > a fee............... I have no idea of what to charge for me. For those > of > > you that have taught, do you pay yourself hourly or what? > > > > Also, do you think there should be a supply fee or that supplies should be > > provided. I think I could keep the supply fee low, except for the didyium > > glasses, but then I would hate for someone to have to buy them (they're > > what? about $40?) and then find out they hate lampwork and don't want to > do > > it. > > > > I've never done kind of thing before. I was thinking, the next time > someone > > asks about my beads, I'm going to tell them I give private lessons from > > home. I couldn't teach a class at home, but I sure could take one student > > at a time. > > > > Any thoughts, suggestions, opinions? > > > > Jerri > > > > > > > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 09:28:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:13:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: questions about castings Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:21:39 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.22139.0> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk Hi group, I recently got my new catalog from Mad Dog and they had a new page of castings. They are from a company called Casting Connections. They say their castings are made of pewter. Now I like all the new designs and can't wait to make them up. Here is my question. What is pewter? I have worked alot with Flight into Fantsy and their castings must be lead. I mean if you accidently touch the hook on the back of the hummingbird with your solder iron it melts away immediately. No where on the package does it tell you what the metal is. Now Metal Monster castings seem to be of something a little different, cause they take a little more effort to get the solder to stick. So does anyone know what these metals are and are they pewter also? And if they are not pewter, what differnces(if any)will I have soldering to pewter? I have a customer that wants one of Metal Monster's faeries on a rod to put in his garden. I was wondering if I sprayed the thing with varnish, would that be enough to stop it from oxidizing? OH! what about marine varnish? And one last question. Does anyone make Flight into Fansty's angel castings? And if so, how well do they sell? I am thinking about making a bunch for my christmas shows. Thanks in advance. Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 09:51:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:50:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: directions for glue chipping? Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:49:00 -0700 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk >>>>heat it until it stinks to high heaven (melts)<<<< Hide glue doesn't smell if held not higher than 150'F (20 minutes is the length of time I will cook to). I've not done sheets of it, but I've done a fair amount of controlled chipping in certain areas of the glass. Never once has my glue smelled. If using a resist to mask off an area, recut around the edge once the glue has started to gel. This will prevent underchipping of the glass in areas you don't want. I do use a plastic bag to contain my work and dessecate (SP) and it's an interesting popping noise (after it's air dried first). Who would figure hide glue would be strong enough to rip chunks of glass. Cindy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 09:59:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:27:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: artglassconcepts.com!delores From: "Delores Taylor" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: FW: What's Common Ground Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:18:08 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.2188.0> Precedence: bulk It is a publication of IGGA. To join IGGA and get the publication go to IGGA.org. This month's on Landing a Gallery, Retail Craft Fairs, Construction of a Glass Easel, Buying/Selling over the internet, Source 99, Mosaic Glue, Pricing SG work, Stepping Stone pointers and foot controllers for torches. MarbinVA wrote: Could you please explain the meaning of "Common Ground?" Thanks! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 10:16:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:46:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ghostman.com!candy From: "Candy Thurman" To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Glass-for Paragon kiln users Date: Wed, 29 Sep 99 22:37:41 Message-ID: <199909301645.KAA28920@mantis.privatei.com> Precedence: bulk Just got this from Paragon.. have been wandering their site lately.. Candy ****************** PARAGON QUIKNEWS Volume Six Welcome to the Paragon newsletter on firing and maintaining electric kilns and related topics. TOPICS 1. New electronic controller: DTC 1000 2. How to crimp a push-on connector 3. A quick thermocouple check 4. "Resolving Conflict in the Family Business" 5. New bulletin board: ask questions about kilns 6. Paragon in-plant kiln maintenance seminar Oct. 1 - 2, 1999 1. NEW ELECTRONIC CONTROLLER: DTC 1000 The DTC 1000--fourth generation TouchnFire controller--has just replaced the DTC 800 series. The DTC 1000 fits in the same switch box opening as the earlier series. Upgrade in only minutes. The new controller uses the familiar Cone-Fire and Ramp-Hold modes. Operation is so similar to the DTC 800 series that you may not even notice the difference. You can access most new features with the Options key. If you don't need the options, they remain hidden. New features Cone-Fire "Pre-Heat" Cone-Fire now includes Pre-Heat for drying greenware. Pre-Heat is useful for hand-built stoneware and for firing during humid seasons, when greenware is difficult to dry. Select Pre-Heat from the Options (0) key. Enter a hold time up to 99 hours and 99 minutes. At the beginning of Cone-Fire, the kiln will heat at 60 deg. F rate per hour to 200 deg. F, then hold for the time you specified. Cone-Fire Cone Offsets In the earlier DTC 800C Cone-Fire, the thermocouple can be calibrated from 38 deg. F cooler to 20 deg. F hotter than the factory setting. The DTC 1000 extends this range of calibration: now you can raise or lower temperature 1-49 deg. F for each pyrometric cone using "Cone Offsets." Example: if a cone 018 firing bends the cone to six o'clock, yet a cone 05 firing does not bend the 05 cone at all, you can raise the heat of the 05 firing. Changing the firing of one cone has no affect on the temperatures of the other cones. Thermocouple Offset In addition to adjusting each individual cone, you can also raise or lower the temperature of the thermocouple itself 1-50 deg. F. This affects all the cones in Cone-Fire and all Ramp-Hold firings. Select "Thermocouple Offset" through the Options key. In multiple-zone firing (see end of this entry), you can adjust each thermocouple individually. Ramp-Hold 16 segment firing As with the DTC 800 series, the DTC 1000 stores up to six user programs and fires in eight segments. However, it also comes with 16 segment firing, selected through the Options key. If you never need 16 segment firings, this feature will remain hidden from view. Circuit board temperature display Temperatures higher than 155 deg. F can damage the controller circuit board. Due to the switch box design, the board ordinarily remains well within safe operating temperature. But on hot summer days, the switch box gets hotter than usual. To check circuit board temperature during firing, press PRESENT STATUS (5). Circuit board temperature will display, followed by the set point (temperature the controller is trying to reach) and segment number. PRESENT STATUS works in both Cone-Fire and Ramp-Hold. Multiple zone firing The DTC 1000 is a multiple-zone board. It can be factory- configured for one, two or three zone firing. Most standard digital Paragon kilns will remain single zone. Each zone in a multiple-zone kiln uses a separate thermocouple. Heating elements for each zone fire independently, maintaining even temperature between zones. Multiple-zone firing was designed for porcelain and sensitive glazes, such as low-fire lead-free glazes. All 8, 10 and 12-sided TnF kilns are now available with optional DTC 1000 multiple-zone firing. Call or fax for pricing. Multiple-zone features 1. The DTC 1000 can display the temperature of each zone separately. 2. The display shows when each zone cycles on and off. Zones are represented by lighted display dots. 3. You can adjust the allowable temperature difference between zones. 4. For a faster firing, adjust the controller to turn on multiple- zone firing only during the last segment of firing. 2. HOW TO CRIMP A PUSH-ON CONNECTOR In crimping a push-on connector to an electrical lead wire, a common mistake is placing part of the wire insulation inside he crimp sleeve. This results in a loose connection, which can cause electrical arcing hot enough to burn off the push-on connector. Squeeze the indentation onto the smooth side of the push-on connector sleeve, not the side with the seam. Always test the new connection by pulling the connector firmly while holding the wire. 3. A QUICK THERMOCOUPLE CHECK The thermocouple is the small rod that projects into the firing chamber of digital kilns. It is the sensor that the controller uses to read temperature. Firing problems with digital kilns frequently stem from the thermocouple. Be sure the thermocouple is protruding into the firing chamber far enough. Bumping the thermocouple while loading can push it out of the firing chamber. New-style Paragon thermocouples with 1/8" metal sleeve should protrude into the firing chamber 3/4". Keep shelves, posts and ware at least 1" away from the thermocouple. Since ceramic bodies act as a heat sink during firing, placing them too close to the thermocouple can alter the temperature reading. 4. "RESOLVING CONFLICT IN THE FAMILY BUSINESS," a message from John R. Hohenshelt, President of Paragon Industries, Inc. www.ParagonWeb.com/html/family_business.html 5. NEW BULLETIN BOARD: ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT KILNS Visit the new bulletin board at www.paragonweb.com. Ask questions about kilns, respond to articles in this newsletter, or give us your opinion on any Paragon product. We look forward to hearing from you! 6. PARAGON IN-PLANT KILN MAINTENANCE SEMINAR OCT. 1 - 2, 1999 The next Paragon Kiln Maintenance seminar will be October 1 & 2 at the Paragon factory in Mesquite, Texas. It will cover diagnostics and repair of Paragon and Duncan kilns; basic electricity; and kiln safety. The $90 seminar fee includes lunch on both days, dinner the first evening, service manuals and a seminar certificate. Call or email for more information. We hope to see you there! Past issues are available at http://www.paragonweb.com/newsletter/signup.html. Please send comments on this newsletter to webmaster@paragonweb.com. To unsubscribe, send an email to alderaan@worldnet.att.net with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. If you have received this email in error, please accept our apologies. Paragon Industries, Inc. We Fire the Imagination 2011 S. Town East Blvd. Mesquite, TX 75149 972.288.7557 800.876.4328 Fax: 972.222.0646 Toll Free Fax: 1.888.222.6450 ParagonInd@worldnet.att.net http://www.ParagonWeb.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 10:29:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:56:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: capecod.net!jaugusta From: Joseph Augusta To: kbang@loop.com, glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: glass slumping w/ elementary students Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:54:43 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.85443.0> References: <<37F3227E.8CD6AE4F@loop.com>> Precedence: bulk kbang wrote: > I am attempting to conceive and coordinate a glass slumping project for > 600 1st - 5th graders (3 different sessions over the school year, 200 > each time). I have access to a kiln and would optimally like to design > a way for each student to create one small piece. I am also considering, > as an alternative, one collaborative tableau/relief per classroom (30 > classrooms). > > Have any members had experience working with small glass projects with > this age student? > > Any experienced advice would be welcome. Can anyone offer some advice to this person? (she's a teacher on another list) You can post a message directly to her at kbang@loop.com---- Best wishes, Joseph > > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 11:02:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:29:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Paragon Kilns Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:25:59 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.32559.0> Precedence: bulk Here is some info from Paragon: ------------------------------------------------------------------ 5. NEW BULLETIN BOARD: ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT KILNS Visit the new bulletin board at www.paragonweb.com. Ask questions about kilns, respond to articles in this newsletter, or give us your opinion on any Paragon product. We look forward to hearing from you! 6. PARAGON IN-PLANT KILN MAINTENANCE SEMINAR OCT. 1 - 2, 1999 The next Paragon Kiln Maintenance seminar will be October 1 & 2 at the Paragon factory in Mesquite, Texas. It will cover diagnostics and repair of Paragon and Duncan kilns; basic electricity; and kiln safety. The $90 seminar fee includes lunch on both days, dinner the first evening, service manuals and a seminar certificate. Call or email for more information. We hope to see you there! ------------------------------------------------------------ I would go the seminar just for the food alone if it was not so far. The price of the two day seminar leads me to believe that they know that an educated consumer is likely to become a good customer. I do not have a controlling interest in Paragon! Bob in SOCAL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 11:38:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:14:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!barbaraelmore From: barbara elmore To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: double glue chipped glass Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:06:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Sep30.4647.0> Precedence: bulk While at Carolina Glue Chip, I got the impression that the double glue chip glass was a way to "recover" from badly single chip glass..........it hid the mistakes by covering them up! They also told us that all the chips didn't always come off totally, and soaking the glass in very warm water would soften the glue enough to scrubbie off completely. Carolina Glue Chip prides themselves as being able to provide their customers with a distinct pattern that they can duplicate and one that is their "signature". Of course, the environment is very strictly controlled. The imported glue chip is NOT the same pattern, very different, as is the glass that is used. They collect the chips that fly off the glass, and melt them down to separate the glass from the glue (somehow) and reuse it again and again. Barbara Elmore ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 12:10:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:27:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Joseph Augusta" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: glass slumping w/ elementary students Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:24:29 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.42429.0> Precedence: bulk I have an idea that a fusing and not a slumping project is desired. I suggest that each student use stringer broken into pieces to make their last initial on a plaque. All letters should be placed according to class seating. If desired, boys could be one color, girls another and perhaps the teacher could have all his/her initials. Bob in SOCAL -----Original Message----- From: Joseph Augusta To: kbang@loop.com ; glass Date: Thursday, September 30, 1999 10:48 AM Subject: Re: glass slumping w/ elementary students >kbang wrote: > >> I am attempting to conceive and coordinate a glass slumping project for >> 600 1st - 5th graders (3 different sessions over the school year, 200 >> each time). I have access to a kiln and would optimally like to design >> a way for each student to create one small piece. I am also considering, >> as an alternative, one collaborative tableau/relief per classroom (30 >> classrooms). >> >> Have any members had experience working with small glass projects with >> this age student? >> >> Any experienced advice would be welcome. > >Can anyone offer some advice to this person? (she's a teacher on another >list) You can post a message directly to her at kbang@loop.com---- > >Best wishes, >Joseph ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 12:34:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:28:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net (synergyglass) To: "Mary B" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Common Ground Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:47:43 -0700 Message-ID: <199909301647.JAA19934@mimas.island.net> Precedence: bulk >I have been lurking in the bungi background for the past several months and >have very much enjoyed the threads posted and learned a lot about sg, as >well as e-mail groups. Being relatively new to the cyberworld and sg, my >learning curve is somewhat broad. Could you please explain the meaning of >"Common Ground?" Thanks! Common Ground: Glass is the quarterly journal of the International Guild of Glass Artists published for its members. More information on the Guild can be obtained at www.igga.org Some bungi members also belong to the guild so I guess that's why the name was just tossed out like that C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 12:42:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:45:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Slumping problem Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:44:46 PDT Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, I bought a 9" sagger mold and have only managed to have one successful piece. The ones that fail all used 1 layern martigra glass, 1 layer clear and sandwiched beween 3 -5 small glass shapes. The top layer cracks at 400-500 degrees. Am I bringing the temp up too fast? How many degrees can I go in 1 hr. and how high should I go with the sagging method? Should I do this in 2 stages - first fusing the project together - flat and then sagging in a 2nd process? Thanks guys... -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 13:02:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:22:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "barbara elmore" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Glue chipped glass Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:18:28 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.51828.0> Precedence: bulk >>They collect the chips that fly off the glass, and melt them down to separate the glass from the glue (somehow) and reuse it again and again. Barbara Elmore<< Easy, the glass chips sink to the bottom and the glue can be poured off. BTW, these glass chips are about the sharpest things around and great care should be taken to dispose of them properly. I pack them in a cardboard box. They cut right through a plastic bag. My instructions say to heat the glue to 140'F in a double boiler (I use my grand fathers glue pot) and keep a close watch with a candy thermometer. Also it states that the glue "begins to be destroyed at temperatures above 150'F". My book is "Glue-Chipped Glass Signs" by Robert R. Mitchell. I don't think it is in print. Bob in SOCAL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 13:33:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:58:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Jerri" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: first time teaching experience Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:56:35 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.115635.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Jerri" >For those of you that have taught, do you pay yourself hourly or what? < I make somewhere between $22 - $24/ hour when I teach at the college.... all tools are supplied by = the college, but the students have to buy about = $50 or more in supplies. I would also recommend you ask them to get a book as part of their = requirement.... something like Randy Wardell's stained glass book which has pretty accurate information (though I wish they had given credit for some of the nicer glass examples to the = appropriate artists). Good luck, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 13:57:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:59:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Ring Saw vs Band Saw Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:56:52 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.115652.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Pamela Dimitrovich" > Which is better and/or what are the major differences/positives/negatives= of a ring saw Vs band saw? I'm looking at a Diamond Laser 3000 band saw and = a Taurus II.2 ring saw.< If you can't cut it by hand, don't cut it with a saw. It's not worth the money or the aggravation in the long run.... any other salty old dawgs out there want to corroborate that? ;-) Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 14:03:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:59:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Mary B" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Common Ground Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:56:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.115633.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Mary B" > Could you please explain the meaning of = "Common Ground?" Thanks! < Oops, sorry. Common Ground:Glass is the magazine/newsletter of the International Guild of Glass Artists. You can check it out at the guild's website http://www.igga.org/ Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 14:25:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:40:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Bob Duchesneau" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Glue chipped glass Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:38:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.12385.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Bob Duchesneau" >My book is "Glue-Chipped Glass Signs"< You know, I bet you could still create a business around just this one product.... sandblasted letters in various styles with glue-chip surround... very attractive. Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 14:32:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:11:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:09:22 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.13922.0> References: <<1999Sep30.115652.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Dani Greer wrote: > > Message text written by "Pamela Dimitrovich" > > > Which is better and/or what are the major differences/positives/negatives= > > of > a ring saw Vs band saw? I'm looking at a Diamond Laser 3000 band saw and = > a > Taurus II.2 ring saw.< > > If you can't cut it by hand, don't cut it with > a saw. It's not worth the money or the > aggravation in the long run.... any other > salty old dawgs out there want to corroborate > that? ;-) > > Best regards, > > Dani Greer > Greer Gallery & Studios > www.igga.org/greer/ = > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass some cuts are better with a bandsaw. if the piece is small, it won't crack when flexed. the bandsaw allows more creative freedom. i'm glad i have it. i used it quite a bit in sky city. those impossible cuts, thick glass, and so forth. i would never rely just on the saw however. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are also a lot of new Sky City pictures. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 15:03:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:30:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!bobdu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Fw: Glue chipped glass/Copyright Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:25:47 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.72547.0> Precedence: bulk >>> >My book is "Glue-Chipped Glass Signs"< > >>>You know, I bet you could still create a business >around just this one product.... sandblasted letters >in various styles with glue-chip surround... very >attractive. > >Best, Dani Greer<< >------------------------------------------------------------ >There is no doubt in my military mind that this is true. The pictures of >signs in the book are to die for. One simply can not pass them by without >stopping to look. The start up investment is slight. The only trouble is >that one must have the interest and courage to try. Learning to follow exact >directions is also necessary for successful glue chipping in the several >ways that are known to be available. > >There is a picture of an old time popcorn cart that has much chipping. It is >at our zoo and does a better business than many stained glass shops. The >author can control the chipping down to 1/8" in letters. Of course gilding >is used on the chip from time to time. > >This brings up a question. What does one do when a book that was never >widely distributed is out of print? Does the author's right of copyright >allow him/her to effectively hold the contents in secret? It seems so. > >Bob in SOCAL > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 15:33:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:58:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: capecod.net!jaugusta From: Joseph Augusta To: glass Content-Type: multipart/mixed; Subject: [Fwd: glass slumping w/ elementary students] Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:53:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.135314.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6B72AB796F5EA8749F575780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Forwarding another message---can anyone help her out? Best wishes, Joseph --------------6B72AB796F5EA8749F575780 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: by mailhost for jaugusta (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.21 1997/08/10) Thu Sep 30 17:51:40 1999) X-From_: kbang@loop.com Thu Sep 30 17:51:25 1999 Received: from stevie.loop.com (stevie-inet.loop.com [207.211.60.71]) by mailhost.capecod.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id RAA04690 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:51:24 -0400 Received: from loop.com (p16.hwts13.loop.net [207.211.62.181]) by stevie.loop.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA14837 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:53:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37F36C09.7DA58869@loop.com> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:57:22 +0100 From: kbang Reply-To: kbang@loop.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joseph Augusta Subject: Re: glass slumping w/ elementary students References: <37F3227E.8CD6AE4F@loop.com> <37F396BE.A379831E@capecod.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Hello Joseph - Thank you for posting my message to a glass list. I am a total novice in this medium. Any and all advice will be enormously enriching and appreciated. Here is some additional information that may be helpful: The students are studing art in relation to nature and will be looking at images of 'Seaforms' by Dale Chihuly. Though I know his works are blown glass and that is certainly not going to be an experience the children can have, what I am emphasizing in the lesson is the fluidity of glass, its 'liquid' properties and the ways in which it transmits light. It is a sculpture lesson, so the project needs to be 3-D, minimally a simple relief, or a miniature sculpture. With this in mind, could artists describe a possible project? Thanks again for your help. Lynn Robb Joseph Augusta wrote: > Hi Lynn! > > I posted your request to a glass list I subscribe to--they should have some > advice for you since there are many slumpers in the group. :-) They'll > send any help directly to you at your loop.com address. > > Best wishes, > Joseph --------------6B72AB796F5EA8749F575780-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 16:02:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:33:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Bob Duchesneau" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Fw: Glue chipped glass/Copyright Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:32:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.143220.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Bob Duchesneau" >The >author can control the chipping down to 1/8" in letters. Of course gildi= ng >is used on the chip from time to time.< Yes, and the gilding makes it even nicer. Truly, Bob, you ought to consider this.... heck you can do all the lettering on the computer... have a sign shop make the mask for = you. Practice on half a dozen with the chipping.... it's not that big a deal, really. The gilding would be the hardest part, because there's a real trick to that part of it. And, you don't have to give up your day job.... just do your own company sign first as a sample! As far as copyright on your book... beats me, but I wonder if Dover or Lee Valley wouldn't consider doing a reprint. I'd sure buy a copy... Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & STudios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 16:07:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:08:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: twinwolf.net!dimitrovich From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" To: "Dani Greer" , Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:34:35 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.133435.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks for all the replies. All of them either went with the ring saw "hands down" or not to use a saw at all. I am tending to agree with many of the replies that I get about doing as much by hand as possible. There are obvious benefits to that. However, for that occasional expensive holiday gift, I think the ring saw may be the one if I go after a saw at all. They are a bit pricey, but with the one "big present" it sure would be a nice one! I'm awaiting Mike's page on this subject. It should be interesting. I do agree that the ring saw would be much more versatile with all the cutting directions, etc. The two I was looking at are basically the same price. The blade for the ring saw was cheaper too. I'm hoping Dani's call to the "salty old dawgs" elicits some interesting responses. Thanks so much for all the replies. I told my husband to watch how fast I get such great and informative responses from the group. He is amazed. Way to go Bungi! As always, I'm glad to have so many friendly voices out there who are so willing to help. Pamela -----Original Message----- From: Dani Greer To: glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, September 30, 1999 5:15 PM Subject: Ring Saw vs Band Saw >Message text written by "Pamela Dimitrovich" >> >Which is better and/or what are the major differences/positives/negatives= > >of >a ring saw Vs band saw? I'm looking at a Diamond Laser 3000 band saw and = >a >Taurus II.2 ring saw.< > >If you can't cut it by hand, don't cut it with >a saw. It's not worth the money or the >aggravation in the long run.... any other >salty old dawgs out there want to corroborate >that? ;-) > >Best regards, > >Dani Greer >Greer Gallery & Studios >www.igga.org/greer/ = > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 16:35:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:33:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:32:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.143211.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Mike Savad >those impossible cuts, thick glass, and so forth.< Those impossible cuts will stress fracture over the years.... tell me you like saw work ten years from now when you've had to do a lot of repairs! Tour de Force cuts are never a wise decision.... they weren't in = medieval days when those impossible cuts were done by hand.... they are not today = when anyone can buy a saw. Do some restoration work for a few years.... you'll learn what I'm talking about..... Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 17:06:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:28:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Ring Saw vs Band Saw Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:24:43 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.152443.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Dani Greer >If you can't cut it by hand, don't cut it with a saw. It's not worth the money or the aggravation in the long run.... any other salty old dawgs out there want to corroborate that? ;-)< Sorry Dani, but I LOVE my Taurus II ring saw. Only use it occassionally (maybe 5% of the time), but there are some of my things that I can't do by hand-cutting. And right now I'm working on a commission whereby I estimated I would need 4 sheets of this one lovely Youghiogheny glass as background, but there were only 2 available for sale....So I'm using the Ring Saw to cut in very tight places since I'm using every square inch of the 2 sheets I've got. Not nearly as much wasted glass as hand-cutting. But then, you pay for that by more time spent at the ring saw. Christie Wood/Art Glass Ensembles 405 E. Walnut St. Rear North Wales, PA 19454 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 17:33:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:46:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "Pamela Dimitrovich" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:39:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.153921.0> Precedence: bulk Yes I do agree. If you can't cut it by hand. It don't cut it with a saw. Unless you are using it for fusing or slumping work. But those stained glass cuts you really have to watch. You could also use that wonderful saw for dalle de verre.....now I would buy a saw for that. Chipping just takes wayyyy to long. my best, pj (who is not salty at all!! Old maybe.) Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists Associate Member AIA -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Dimitrovich To: Dani Greer ; glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, September 30, 1999 7:37 PM Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw >Thanks for all the replies. All of them either went with the ring saw "hands >down" or not to use a saw at all. I am tending to agree with many of the >replies that I get about doing as much by hand as possible. There are >obvious benefits to that. However, for that occasional expensive holiday >gift, I think the ring saw may be the one if I go after a saw at all. They >are a bit pricey, but with the one "big present" it sure would be a nice >one! I'm awaiting Mike's page on this subject. It should be interesting. I >do agree that the ring saw would be much more versatile with all the cutting >directions, etc. The two I was looking at are basically the same price. The >blade for the ring saw was cheaper too. > >I'm hoping Dani's call to the "salty old dawgs" elicits some interesting >responses. > >Thanks so much for all the replies. I told my husband to watch how fast I >get such great and informative responses from the group. He is amazed. Way >to go Bungi! As always, I'm glad to have so many friendly voices out there >who are so willing to help. > >Pamela > >-----Original Message----- >From: Dani Greer >To: glass@bungi.com >Date: Thursday, September 30, 1999 5:15 PM >Subject: Ring Saw vs Band Saw > > >>Message text written by "Pamela Dimitrovich" >>> >>Which is better and/or what are the major differences/positives/negatives= >> >>of >>a ring saw Vs band saw? I'm looking at a Diamond Laser 3000 band saw and = >>a >>Taurus II.2 ring saw.< >> >>If you can't cut it by hand, don't cut it with >>a saw. It's not worth the money or the >>aggravation in the long run.... any other >>salty old dawgs out there want to corroborate >>that? ;-) >> >>Best regards, >> >>Dani Greer >>Greer Gallery & Studios >>www.igga.org/greer/ = >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 17:42:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:45:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pro-ns.net!jdahlin From: "J. Dahlin" To: Pamela Dimitrovich Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:38:21 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.123821.0> References: <<1999Sep30.133435.0>> Precedence: bulk Glass Crafters is selling the Taurus 2.2 WITH the accessory package for $389.00 in their current fall flyer. They have the Accessory Package for $54.95. WC advertises that they will meet competitive prices, so you might want to check with them. WC had the Taurus at Glass Visions for $350 (without the accessory package, which wasn't available at that time). I have a Taurus, but don't use it anywhere near as much as I expected to. I need to get back to using it. It was my Christmas present to myself last year. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 17:54:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:55:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:40:25 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.154025.0> References: <<1999Sep30.143211.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Dani Greer wrote: > > Message text written by Mike Savad > >those impossible cuts, thick > glass, and so forth.< > > Those impossible cuts will stress fracture > over the years.... tell me you like saw work > ten years from now when you've had to > do a lot of repairs! Tour de Force cuts are > never a wise decision.... they weren't in = > > medieval days when those impossible cuts > were done by hand.... they are not today = > > when anyone can buy a saw. Do some > restoration work for a few years.... you'll > learn what I'm talking about..... > > Best regards, > > Dani Greer > Greer Gallery & Studios > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it's not used everywhere. large pieces in a panel will most likly break over time. even smaller pieces, panels flex too much. a box, or a lamp there's a greater chance of piece survival. and of course mosaic work, it will never crack (from that). cutting our drapery or extra thick glass. or using it in the case of my glass filligree. the band saw doesn't always have to be for deep curves or impossible cuts. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are also a lot of new Sky City pictures. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 18:37:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:02:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig From: "Mike Figgy" To: "Dimitrovich" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Vicki Payne TV Show - Flint, Michigan Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:01:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.1718.0> References: <<1999Sep29.154036.0>> Precedence: bulk Who cares? From: Dimitrovich To: Sent: September 29, 1999 7:40 PM Subject: Vicki Payne TV Show - Flint, Michigan > I just found out we have Flint PBS on our cable here in the Detroit area. > Does anyone in the Flint, Michigan area know when "Stained Glass with Vicki > Payne" is on? > > Thanks, > > Pamela > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 19:03:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:02:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig From: "Mike Figgy" To: "Dimitrovich" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Vicki Payne TV Show - Flint, Michigan Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:01:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.1718.0> References: <<1999Sep29.154036.0>> Precedence: bulk Who cares? From: Dimitrovich To: Sent: September 29, 1999 7:40 PM Subject: Vicki Payne TV Show - Flint, Michigan > I just found out we have Flint PBS on our cable here in the Detroit area. > Does anyone in the Flint, Michigan area know when "Stained Glass with Vicki > Payne" is on? > > Thanks, > > Pamela > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 19:21:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:05:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Christie A. Wood" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Ring Saw vs Band Saw Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:04:38 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.17438.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Christie A. Wood" >So I'm using the Ring Saw to cut in very tight places since I'm using every square inch of the 2 sheets I've got.< Okay, I can see where that might come in handy... but, the fact that you tell me you use it only 5% of the time, also tells me you are proficient at cutting by hand and don't NEED the saw in most cases. And I can see having one if you use a lot of drapery glass (which I think is one of Tiffany's cheesier = inventions), which we don't. But, for the most part, a saw is a waste of good money that could be spent on good glass. How much did each sheet of the Yough cost ya? How many more could you have purchased (if it was available) for the cost of the saw? Just another point of view..... LOL. Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 19:27:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:07:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!mbwalker From: Brad Walker To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw (One Dawg's Perspective) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:06:22 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.17622.0> References: <<1999Sep30.143211.0>> Precedence: bulk Dani Greer wrote: If you can't cut it by hand, don't cut it with a saw. It's not worth the money or the aggravation in the long run.... any other salty old dawgs out there want to corroborate that? ;-) and Dani also wrote: > Those impossible cuts will stress fracture > over the years.... tell me you like saw work > ten years from now when you've had to > do a lot of repairs! Tour de Force cuts are > never a wise decision.... Dani, I gave up stained glass for fusing a couple of years ago. Your comments may be correct for stained glass, but not for kilnwork. For one thing, it's nearly impossible to cut three fused layers of glass by hand. Sometimes I can cut a straight line or gentle curve (with the help of my Morton safety break) by hand, but most of the time I have to resort to my saw, especially if I'm cutting anything more intricate than a slight curve. I'd love to cut by hand, but haven't found the cutter yet that can handle 3/8" or thicker fused glass. Also, some of my fused work involves very intricate cuts (puzzle piece shapes, circles, earlobes, etc.) that are created from previously fused items. Again, it's impossible to make those cuts without a saw. Moreover, when these "impossible" cuts are fused again, the resulting glass is strong enough to last at least a couple hundred years. Long as I'm on the subject, my experience is that the band saw (I have a Gryphon) is preferable to the ring saw for working with fused glass. The ring saw takes out too much glass for small items like jewelry (especially, as Mike Savad mentions, for expensive glass like dichroic) and the band saw is more accurate (and I think faster, but I haven't tested this) than the ring saw. Just a few thoughts from the fuser's perspective.... Brad Walker ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 19:33:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:14:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Mike Savad Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:12:37 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.171237.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Mike Savad >large pieces in a panel will most likly break over time. even smaller pieces, panels flex too much. = < There are thousands of windows in Europe with large and small pieces of glass that are hundreds of years old and are completely intact... have never broken even though they are installed = against the elements (with wind-bracing, of course). Breakage in a stained glass window is not = inevitable if the design and craftmanship is good... and if they're not subject to bombing and other acts of vandalism. I hope we have not reached a stage in stained glass history where we are communicating to customers that our work is bound to break eventually. With care, it's simply not true. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 19:39:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:17:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!mbwalker From: Brad Walker To: kbang@loop.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: glass slumping w/ elementary students Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:16:58 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.171658.0> References: <<1999Sep30.85443.0>> Precedence: bulk If I were working with a group of elementary kids, I would try a fusing project that would allow each kid to make their own coaster. I'd cut some squares (about 3 1/2 by 3 1/2 inches) of assorted colors and also cut some random shapes (rectangles, triangles, etc.) from my scrap glass pile. I'd also supply some stringers and perhaps some frit as well. Then I'd let the kids pick their base color and lay out a pattern of their chosing on top of the base square. When they're done, just fuse to about 1500, let soak about 10 minutes, and cool. Voila! Instant coasters. One last thought: get a Sharpie pen or similar pen that writes on glass & let the kid's sign their "artwork" on the bottom when it's done. Hope this helps. Brad Walker Joseph Augusta wrote: > kbang wrote: > > > I am attempting to conceive and coordinate a glass slumping project for > > 600 1st - 5th graders (3 different sessions over the school year, 200 > > each time). I have access to a kiln and would optimally like to design > > a way for each student to create one small piece. I am also considering, > > as an alternative, one collaborative tableau/relief per classroom (30 > > classrooms). > > > > Have any members had experience working with small glass projects with > > this age student? > > > > Any experienced advice would be welcome. > > Can anyone offer some advice to this person? (she's a teacher on another > list) You can post a message directly to her at kbang@loop.com---- > > Best wishes, > Joseph > > > > > > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 19:49:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:03:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: "[unknown]" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:01:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.18151.0> References: <<199909302112_MC2-872E-605C@compuserve.com>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Dani Greer wrote: > > Message text written by Mike Savad > >large pieces in a panel will most likly break > over time. even smaller pieces, panels flex too much. > < > > There are thousands of windows in Europe with > large and small pieces of glass that are hundreds > of years old and are completely intact... have > never broken even though they are installed > against the elements (with wind-bracing, of course). > Breakage in a stained glass window is not > inevitable if the design and craftmanship is good... > and if they're not subject to bombing and other > acts of vandalism. I hope we have not reached > a stage in stained glass history where we are > communicating to customers that our work is > bound to break eventually. With care, it's simply > not true. > > Best regards, > > Dani Greer > Greer Gallery & Studios you can't be stuck in old ways. new tools change how art is born. i can almost here the critics saying way back then - why are you making it out of glass, glass will break over time. if you design it properly, it won't break. making something with a bandsaw, doesn't have to mean that it will break over time. the customer owns a piece of glass, glass breaks, they have to know that. even the best made designs crack over time. if it's built right, if it's designed right, it won't break. today's artform is different then yesteryears. bandsaw is another way to let the creative freedom come out. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are also a lot of new Sky City pictures. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 20:04:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:31:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: twinwolf.net!dimitrovich From: "Pamela Dimitrovich" To: "Mike Figgy" , Subject: Re: Vicki Payne TV Show - MY REPLY TO YOURS Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:04:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.18455.0> Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: Mike Figgy To: Dimitrovich ; glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, September 30, 1999 9:00 PM Subject: Re: Vicki Payne TV Show - Flint, Michigan >Who cares? Mike, That wasn't very nice. Everyone has different opinions and being a part of a group should allow for those differences without put downs. I asked the question because I wanted to know the answer. You didn't need to reply if that is how you feel - especially in that fashion. As a matter of fact, I care. Vicki Payne was nice enough to mail me 3 of her videos - for free, out of the kindness of her heart; to help me see how some basic techniques are performed. I really appreciated that and it has helped me tremendously in learning how to work with stained glass. She did this for me simply because I had sent her an email inquiring as to when her program may be broadcast in my area. I happened to mention that I was experiencing some frustration in cutting and she replied with "help is on the way". 2 days later her videos arrived. So, in answer to your question of "who cares?" - I do! Remember that when you reply to people's questions like that, you keep the lurkers lurking and may even cause others to unsubscribe - which would be a shame. By the way, thank you to those of you who did actually answer my question. I appreciate it as I do all the replies that I receive from the group. Pamela -----Original Message----- From: Mike Figgy To: Dimitrovich ; glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, September 30, 1999 9:00 PM Subject: Re: Vicki Payne TV Show - Flint, Michigan >Who cares? >From: Dimitrovich >To: >Sent: September 29, 1999 7:40 PM >Subject: Vicki Payne TV Show - Flint, Michigan > > >> I just found out we have Flint PBS on our cable here in the Detroit area. >> Does anyone in the Flint, Michigan area know when "Stained Glass with >Vicki Payne" is on? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Pamela ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 20:36:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:04:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Brad Walker Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw (One Dawg's Perspective) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 23:01:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.19131.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Brad Walker >Your comments may be correct for stained glass, but not for kilnwork. < This is also very true.... you can use a saw just fine for fused work because stress fracturing is not as much of an issue... if at all. I guess I should say for traditional panel work and lamps, saws can spell disaster. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 20:52:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:14:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: Mike Savad To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 23:13:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.19133.0> References: <<1999Sep30.17438.0>> Organization: Mike's Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Dani Greer wrote: > > Message text written by "Christie A. Wood" > >So I'm using > the Ring Saw to cut in very tight places since I'm using > every square inch of the 2 sheets I've got.< > > Okay, I can see where that might come in handy... > but, the fact that you tell me you use it only 5% of > the time, also tells me you are proficient at cutting > by hand and don't NEED the saw in most cases. > And I can see having one if you use a lot of drapery > glass (which I think is one of Tiffany's cheesier = > > inventions), which we don't. But, for the most part, > a saw is a waste of good money that could be spent > on good glass. How much did each sheet of the > Yough cost ya? How many more could you have > purchased (if it was available) for the cost of the saw? > Just another point of view..... LOL. > > Best, > > Dani Greer > Greer Gallery & Studios > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass every tool in the box is helpful. you may not need to use running pliers constantly either, but you probably have them in case you need them. i have a small kiln, i don't use that much either, but i'm glad i have it. i have an electric came saw, don't use that much either, but i'm glad i have it. i have a bevel grinder - a piece of junk - does'nt bevel very well, but i'm glad i have it. you can get a tool and not use it very often. i'm glad i do have the saw. if i need to use it, i can. whether in an emergancy, for accent, or for fun... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 9-12-99 - New Pages Added: 3 new Tips sections - Reader's Tips, Making your own Glass Filigree, and Cutting Different types of glass. There are also a lot of new Sky City pictures. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Sep 30 22:33:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:08:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!cecnralph From: Cecily and Ralph Wood To: Pamela Dimitrovich , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Subject: Re: Ring Saw vs Band Saw Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 01:16:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Sep30.211642.0> References: <<1999Sep29.212847.0>> Organization: Grendel Studios Precedence: bulk Well...you want both! (Yes! Alright already, I am not a classicist and I cheat by using grinders and saws. My cutting gets better and better, but I still use these new fangled things! So there! :-p ) If you can only afford one now...get the ring saw because it is the more versatile (and about half the price of the band saw). Because you can feed the glass into the ring saw from any direction, it is possible to make cuts that the band saw cannot. The beauty of it is that the blade is a loop of round wire, with the cutting material (diamond dust I suppose) entirely surrounding all the surface so it doesn't make any difference if you push the glass through from front to back or vice versa, from side to side or somewhere inbetween. This makes it more responsive for small curves or dramatic changes in direction or when your glass is a shape that will not be able to be cut on the band saw because it bumps into the arm that holds the blade. I almost never use the smallest grinder heads because I just touch up the little things with the ring saw, although I still use the large head on the grinder. Another good thing - you can give yourself a whale of a friction burn but you can't cut yourself with a ring saw. The downside to the ring grinder is that the grid top is very sensitive to heat and mine sags on both sides from being too close to a halogin lamp, so I have to be careful not to exert any downward pressure or I break the glass. We've also found that because the grid top is so soft, glass scars and cuts it when you are pushing glass, Then those cuts interfere with the smoothness with which you feed subsequent glass. I also find it difficult to cut a smooth straight line. It also cuts a wider swath than the band saw. The band saw takes a smaller swath, and makes a far finer, smoother cut. I think it is easier to control the glass, and it is possible to cut two layers of glass at once (if you can get them stuck together so they don't slide). It also cuts much faster, although you shouldn't expect using a saw is going to significantly speed up your work. Here the blade is flat, again made in a loop and the inside edge of the blade faces the inside of the loop, with the cutting edge on the outside. You cannot make as deep or small curves as the ring saw, nor can you change directions at too sharp an angle. Don't force the glass through any saw - let it set its own pace. And DON'T forget to wear eye protection! I have resorted to saws when cutting backgrounds of baroque or grained glass so that the flow of the glass from piece to piece makes it look as though you'd used one large piece (sometimes, indeed that is just what I've done). They are also very helpful when faced with having to use every last bit of glass, making the placement of the pieces impossible to cut in the normal fashion. Pamela Dimitrovich wrote: > As always, I pose the question to the group to get feedback on products. > > Which is better and/or what are the major differences/positives/negatives of > a ring saw Vs band saw? I'm looking at a Diamond Laser 3000 band saw and a > Taurus II.2 ring saw. > > All diatribes will be welcomed. > > Thanks. > > Pamela > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- ********************************************************************* * Cecily Taylor Cummings Wood and/or Ralph Bernard Wood * Grendel Studio (Glass, Graphics, Gardens, Genealogy) ********************************************************************* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass