From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 04:51:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 03:40:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: NG-trouble in ISP land Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 06:39:42 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.13942.0> Precedence: bulk I'm having lots of trouble with my ISP, but when I can get on, there's little e-mail from the list. Are all of you having troubles too? (Like being shut down by Melissa and Papa?) I can only get on at 6;30 am...not in the evening as is my normal wont. Ah, well, I did get that soldering done. Tonight...work on nightlights. Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 08:57:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 07:50:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: NG-trouble in ISP land Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 07:48:10 -0800 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990401074810.0092fad0@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> References: <<1999Apr1.13942.0>> Precedence: bulk At 06:39 AM 4/1/99 -0500, Dorothy wrote: >I'm having lots of trouble with my ISP, but when I can get on, there's >little e-mail from the list. Are all of you having troubles too? (Like >being shut down by Melissa and Papa?) I can only get on at 6;30 >am...not in the evening as is my normal wont. Ah, well, I did get that >soldering done. Tonight...work on nightlights. > Same story here. It started on Tuesday for me. Connecting to my ISP hasn't been too bad but I've had a lot of failures (unusual) trying to connect to the mail server to get my messages. I blamed in on those viruses clogging mail channels. Bungi traffic has seemed lighter than normal. There was a period of about 4 hours Tuesday afternoon when no new messages arrived, which is pretty suspicious. Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 09:17:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 07:56:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Family Account Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG-trouble in ISP land Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 10:01:30 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.4130.0> References: <<1999Apr1.13942.0>> Precedence: bulk Dorothy... I have been having lots of trouble getting on, although I finally got through on the phone to them yesterday,and they swear there is no problem. Nobody had reported any. I told him...consider this a report. Driving me nuts. If it werent for so many other people telling me they are having trouble I would be just about ready to change ISPs. T Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 09:38:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:18:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Updated Who's Where in Bungi-Land list Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:17:50 -0800 Message-ID: <199904011617.IAA05551@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk Hi Steve Thanks for the time you put in to update the who's where list and also to add the where's who section... I think that since spring is here the real answer to who's where is that everybody's outside gardening! C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 10:18:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 09:41:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stmassociates.com!shigbee From: "Shari Higbee" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Matching Youghigany ice Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:44:52 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.34452.0> Precedence: bulk Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 09:56:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: stepping stones Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:55:01 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.7551.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Val Dvorak >Help! Is there any way to repair a piece of cracked glass in a stepping stone? The stepping stone I just finished came out with a crack in a large piece of the glass. This has never happen before, don't even know why it happen now. LOL. Am I asking for to much?< Sorry, Val, but no way to repair. You have to pour another stone. The crack probably happened as a result of different shrinkage rates between the concrete and the glass. I've seen it happen before, particularly to thicker pieces of glass. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 12:24:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:17:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "bungi.com" Subject: Re: stepping stones Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:02:11 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.9211.0> Precedence: bulk Val, There could have been a mark on the glass that cused it to crack too. Put that stone in your yard and eventually you will have a nice collection of what I call "test stones." I am really sorry it happend but I have had the same thing happen in reverse, the glass looked fine but the edge of the stone broke off when unmolding, on that stone I was lucky, I was able to pick out the glass and clean and repour. I did have a piece break/just crack, small as it was, it bugged me, but the stone looks fine and it was a gift so I didn't even call attention to it. Had it be a comission stone I would have redone it. Linda Jo -----Original Message----- From: Christie A. Wood To: Bungi Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 1:53 PM Subject: stepping stones >Message text written by Val Dvorak >>Help! Is there any way to repair a piece of cracked glass in a stepping >stone? The stepping stone I just finished came out with a crack in a >large piece of the glass. This has never happen before, don't even know >why it happen now. LOL. Am I asking for to much?< > >Sorry, Val, but no way to repair. You have to pour another stone. >The crack probably happened as a result of different shrinkage >rates between the concrete and the glass. I've seen it happen >before, particularly to thicker pieces of glass. > >Christie A. Wood >Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, >P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 >http://www.igga.org/wood/ >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 12:54:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:31:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.megsinet.net!pjnelson From: Paula Nelson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Matching Youghigany ice Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 13:12:49 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.71249.0> Precedence: bulk Shari sez >Well, not being one to hide my stupidity /snip/ Yes, a smart person would have checked >this out before starting on a big project Ummmm, well... call me a dummy, 'cuz I did a similar thing last weekend. I wasn't thinking when I started a wall mosaic and didn't have enough of the background. Luckily it was just a plain white background that my local store had a half-sheet of.... Paula Nelson uitland@glassdogstudio.com The Glass Dog Studio http://www.glassdogstudio.com/TGDS.htm vom Uitland Rottweilers http://www.glassdogstudio.com/uitland.htm ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 13:16:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:04:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim Atwood" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: stepping stones Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:06:53 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.4653.0> Precedence: bulk Repair for strength or appearance? In my experience, you will never get the crack to disappear completely. Some of the UV glues will make it less noticeable. They are also surprisingly strong. I have never used them on a stepping stone though and I do not know if they would hold up to that sort of punishment. You will want to use a two part UV resin glue. The one part UV glues are water soluble and would not be appropriate for an outdoor stepping stone. Several IGGA supporting suppliers carry two part UV glue. You will also want to check the consistency of whichever glue you use. I am guessing you want to flow the glue into the existing crack without being able to take the pieces of glass out. Some of the glues are about the consistency of water and this is what you want for it to flow into the crack. Depending on use, I have also used "Hot Stuff" super glue. Hot Stuff is again about the consistency of water so it will flow into cracks where most cyanoacrylic (sp.?) super glues will not. However, you can only expect about 5 years life from these glues and the will start yellowing before then. In a wet application such as a stepping stone, mildew will also start attacking a super glue and breaking it down. -----Original Message----- From: Val Dvorak To: glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 12:46 AM Subject: stepping stones >Hi All, >Help! Is there any way to repair a piece of cracked glass in a stepping >stone? The stepping stone I just finished came out with a crack in a >large piece of the glass. This has never happen before, don't even know >why it happen now. LOL. Am I asking for to much? >Thanks. >Val > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 13:29:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:25:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Matching Youghigany ice Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:10:06 -0500 Message-ID: <199904012006.PAA28405@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 4/1/99 12:44 PM Shari Higbee shigbee@stmassociates.com >My question is this. What are the chances of being able to match my >yellowish ice? If I sent a small piece to one of the major glass suppliers, >would they be willing to hunt for another piece or two that matches closer >than what I've got? Whadd'ya think? > Shari, they should be. I've had the same trouble with Yough ice, there is a very light yellow that is close to the ice, but it's a different color. However, I think you need to find out where it came from, and have the invoice, and then call whoever you got it from first. Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 14:00:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 13:18:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "bungi.com" Subject: lead stretcher Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:13:45 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.111345.0> Precedence: bulk I don't seem to have an area in my garage/studio to put the holding end of my lead stretcher. I tried on my new workbench but when I start to pull I move the workbench. So then I took it out on a flower bed that is brick and the small lip on the stretche is enough to grab and pull but if I even give it the least little angle up off it comes. So do any of you have a suggestion where to put it? What I did do was I screwed it to a big tree in my front yard for now. I am using vise grips for the other end which works ok, sometimes it bites a little hard into the lead and breaks but oh well...!! Linda Jo ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 15:00:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:21:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: "suzy@comcat.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Matching Youghigany ice Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 16:24:29 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.102429.0> References: <<199904012006.PAA28405@uz.ComCAT.COM>> Precedence: bulk Shari.. Todd in Warner Criv's glass dept is a prince! He helps me out all the time. I can describe a color and he comes up with a number off the top of his head. He is a nice guy to boot. Bet he could help you out. You'd have to ask him. Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 16:04:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:13:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stmassociates.com!shigbee From: "Shari Higbee" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: re: lead stretcher Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:15:15 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.91515.0> Precedence: bulk Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:25:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.megsinet.net!pjnelson From: Paula Nelson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: lead stretcher Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 17:18:09 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.11189.0> Precedence: bulk Linda sez: >I don't seem to have an area in my garage/studio to put the holding end of >my lead stretcher. I tried on my new workbench but when I start to pull I >move the workbench. Oh, oh, oh..... No! Been there, done that, and went to the ER for it. Don't go there! I had the end give out of the clamp/pliers two years ago and I went flying into boxes and you don't want to know the rest. Go buy a Stanten (sp) stretcher or similar make and get a 6 foot 2x4 and attach it. Some are made to go on tables.... I think they might get in your way - this way it stands in a corner till you need it. Paula Nelson uitland@glassdogstudio.com The Glass Dog Studio http://www.glassdogstudio.com/TGDS.htm vom Uitland Rottweilers http://www.glassdogstudio.com/uitland.htm ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 16:37:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:46:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: lead stretcher Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:45:10 -0800 Message-ID: <199904012345.PAA18142@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >I don't seem to have an area in my garage/studio to put the holding end of >my lead stretcher. I tried on my new workbench but when I start to pull I >move the workbench. Linda...for years I had it on one end of my workbench...I then braced my leg against the opposite end so I offered resistance as I pulled the lead which I had laid aross the top of the workbench. Two weeks ago I got the idea to screw it to the window ledge instead...doesn't move the bench, but the pulled lead sagged as soon as I stretched it without the workbench top beneath it. So, it'll be moved back to the workbench prior to my next leading project. I like the support the bench surface gves to the pulled lead. C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 17:30:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:37:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Shari Higbee" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: re: lead stretcher Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:35:49 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.143549.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Shari Higbee" > Linda Jo: I have mine on one end of my table, and then stretch the came clear across the table. I actually brace myself while I am pulling by putting one foot up on the table leg, which keep the table from being pulled towards me. Does that make sense? Anyway, when it does break, I tend to g= o flying. Otherwise, it works great! < That's how we do it..... and keep that other leg braced behind you so you= don't land on your caboose! Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 17:48:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:49:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: lead stretcher Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:45:18 EST Message-ID: <1999Apr2.04518.0> Precedence: bulk Also sprach Linda Jo:: >I don't seem to have an area in my garage/studio to put the holding end of >my lead stretcher. I tried on my new workbench but when I start to pull I >move the workbench. Uhhhhhhhhh.......... yeah. Like the first time I used the one at Lenore's place and forgot that not only was it attached to one of those folding "banquet tables," but the table itself was raised up on blocks 6 or 8" high. I gave the thing a yank and the entire table pulled off the blocks and crashed straight down...... Madame Pele *and* Saint Luke (not to mention whoever's the patron saint of the occasionally *very* uncoordinated; being a Baptist, I'm new to this saint stuff) must have been with me that day; fortunately the table came down so straight that the table legs held and nothing on the table broke or even got knocked over! >What I did do was I screwed it to a big tree in my front yard for now. I am >using vise grips for the other end which works ok, sometimes it bites a >little hard into the lead and breaks but oh well...!! Hey, it may look strange, but if it works........... :-) Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 18:00:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:12:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.megsinet.net!pjnelson From: Paula Nelson To: Linda Jo Letscher , glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: lead stretcher Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 18:56:41 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.125641.0> Precedence: bulk >Ok it is becoming more clear all the time. I have the 6 foot 2x4, was going >to chuck it yesterday, glad I saved it. Is the stretcher you are talking >about the vise type one that our friends at W-C sell for a couple of bucks? >So when I am not using it I will just shove it somewhere. The Stanton is a pully device with it's own vice. Put that on one end and your little one on the other and there it is. I think the Stanton is about $44.... but it's worth the but-for-God fractured ankle and busted shoulder... I also did the foot against the table - that's how I got the velocity . For the price it was/is worth it - and it stretchs lead sweet -;) Paula Nelson uitland@glassdogstudio.com The Glass Dog Studio http://www.glassdogstudio.com/TGDS.htm vom Uitland Rottweilers http://www.glassdogstudio.com/uitland.htm ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 18:30:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:56:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!barbaraelmore From: barbara elmore To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Bevels and Glue chip matching? Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:54:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1999Apr1.95421.0> Precedence: bulk Tonight, when I finished my 6th panel (yes, I'm counting), I realized that I had cut and placed the glue chip **pieces** into the panel with the glue chip side on the back. But, the glue chip ** bevels ** have the glue chip side on the front. Should glue chip side on the glass match glue chip side on the bevels? Reading this over sounds like a Laurel & Hardy routine! Barbara Elmore _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 19:59:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:04:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: barbara elmore Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Bevels and Glue chip matching? Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 22:05:11 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.17511.0> References: <<1999Apr1.95421.0>> Precedence: bulk barbara elmore wrote: > > Tonight, when I finished my 6th panel (yes, I'm counting), I realized > that I had cut and placed the glue chip **pieces** into the panel with > the glue chip side on the back. But, the glue chip ** bevels ** have > the glue chip side on the front. > > Should glue chip side on the glass match glue chip side on the bevels? > > Reading this over sounds like a Laurel & Hardy routine! > > Barbara Elmore > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it all depends on what want. generally looking straight at it no one will notice. it's only when the reflection is seen, does it matter. most of my things have the glue chip on the back, it's just easier to do it that way instead of reversing it. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 20:29:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:36:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!gcanvas From: "James C. Kelly" To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: stepping stones Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 22:33:50 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.173350.0> Precedence: bulk Val asked: >>Hi All, Help! Is there any way to repair a piece of cracked >>glass in a stepping stone? The stepping stone I just finished >>came out with a crack in a large piece of the glass. This has >>never happen before, don't even know why it happen now. LOL. = >>Am I asking for to much? Thanks. Val I made several stones for my children. One suffered too much from the shock of four grandsons running over them and getting gravel between their Nike's and the stones. Surprisingly, only one piece has broken. Not knowing I probably would not be successful, I attempted to remove the broken piece. I ran many score lines on the broken piece expecting it to just fall out cleanly. It didnt.... I chipped it out with a screwdriver tip slowly but surely and have replaced the piece. But to tell = you the truth, I agree with others comments.... I would let a gift piece rest with the = broken piece as is unless it = broke out some parts and had sharp edges. If it was a sold piece and I felt in any way = responsible for the breakage, I would redo the piece before I would go thru the chip process = again. If you try to chip it out, wear safety glasses.... the concrete and glass will fly all over the place. This is not an April Fools's joke. Best of luck Jim Kelly Virginia Beach VA gcanvas@compuserve.com Thursday, April 01, 1999 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 20:42:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:47:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mediaone.net!izzy3 From: Michael Smoucha To: barbara elmore Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Bevels and Glue chip matching? Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 21:47:30 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.154730.0> References: <<1999Apr1.95421.0>> Precedence: bulk barbara elmore wrote: > Tonight, when I finished my 6th panel (yes, I'm counting), I realized > that I had cut and placed the glue chip **pieces** into the panel with > the glue chip side on the back. But, the glue chip ** bevels ** have > the glue chip side on the front. > > Should glue chip side on the glass match glue chip side on the bevels? > > Reading this over sounds like a Laurel & Hardy routine! > > Barbara Elmore > > _________________________________________________________ The only rule is there are no rules! ms ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 20:53:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:51:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Arnold and Giraffe joos Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 21:56:59 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.155659.0> Precedence: bulk The first time I ever saw Arnold online was way before I joined Bungi. He was offering someone advice on a glass board somewhere. By the time I joined Bungi, I was well aware that Arnold was a nice guy. He wasnt pushing to make a sale, ever. He was just a helpful nice guy. I wish I had met Arnold a long time ago. He was a good friend, that I didnt have for long. I'm very thankful that I emailed him privately and he let me be a friend. The first thing I saw him talk about was giraffe joos. He swore by the stuff. I had/have never seen it anywhere. The day Arnold died, I recieved a package with a big bottle of giraffe joos, and a big bottle of Kwik clean. I have never heard anyone else ever say anything about giraffe joos. Arnold couldnt beleive that everyone didnt use it. ;o) Well, I have used it every day since I got it...and man...it is almost too easy. Kwik Clean too. This stuff is great. Just wanted to tell you guys, Arnold was right. I love this stuff. I dont have the experience like he did to tell you it lasts for ? period of time...but, I really like it. Arnold said it lasts for as long as 10 yrs. I was reminded yesterday (wont tell you how) that I have some very good friends that I found here. I am thankful for all of you. T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 20:59:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:55:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: sssnet.com!classi From: "Karen F." To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Shade repair near Wilkes-Barre? Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 22:51:03 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.17513.0> Precedence: bulk Hi again from a lurker. I have a guest visiting here in Ohio who mentioned that he has a lamp with a stained glass shade that has two panel broken. It was purchased in NYC as an antique in 1973. The value may or may not be extremely high, but the most important thing to my friend is that the pieces be replaced. Anyone near Wilkes-Barre or Kingston, PA willing to look at the shade and replace panels or advise where they may be replaced? Thanks in advance for any help. We will be around the net off and on over the weekend. Regards and Happy Easter to all of you. Karen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 21:32:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:30:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: cool stuff, sorta glass Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 22:35:56 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.163556.0> Precedence: bulk Things are going well with my giftshop guys. Day before yesterday, I took some things to show them..and they bought everything. :o) Called this morning and said they sold one of my fan lamps for $65. Wish I could do that! :o) Oh, and they keep calling me an artist! ;o) I always wanted to be one of those. hahaha... ...and my brother in law, yesterday told my husband "cut her some slack, she's an artist." Guess I do my best work when I am out there just squirrelin around! My son this evening was sitting in my workshop talking to me while I was working. He kept saying "me wanna be a mommy." I said, "dont you mean you want to be a daddy?" He said "nope, me wanna be a mommy" I asked him well why would he rather be a mommy than a daddy? He said..."Me wanna be a mommy, make glass!" Too Cool! ;o) T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 21:52:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:40:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "barbara elmore" Subject: Re: Bevels and Glue chip matching? Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:38:19 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.123819.0> Precedence: bulk >>Tonight, when I finished my 6th panel (yes, I'm counting), I realized that I had cut and placed the glue chip **pieces** into the panel with the glue chip side on the back. But, the glue chip ** bevels ** have the glue chip side on the front. Should glue chip side on the glass match glue chip side on the bevels? << You got it right. There is no law but most glue chip is displayed with the smooth side on the primary viewing side with the exception of bevels. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. -----Original Message----- From: barbara elmore To: glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 6:42 PM Subject: Bevels and Glue chip matching? >Tonight, when I finished my 6th panel (yes, I'm counting), I realized >that I had cut and placed the glue chip **pieces** into the panel with >the glue chip side on the back. But, the glue chip ** bevels ** have >the glue chip side on the front. > >Should glue chip side on the glass match glue chip side on the bevels? > > >Reading this over sounds like a Laurel & Hardy routine! > >Barbara Elmore > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 22:01:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:51:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: nettally.com!gypsy2 From: "Sandy Gustafson" To: Subject: Re: stepping stones Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 23:49:52 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.184952.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Jim, What did you use to place the new glass piece in the already harden mortar and cement. Please explain the process you used. Thanks----------Sandy G. Be kind to everyone, because everyone is having a hard time. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 22:14:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:59:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: nettally.com!gypsy2 From: "Sandy Gustafson" To: Subject: Cement Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 23:58:19 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.185819.0> Precedence: bulk Hi ya all, I am looking for the lightest (in weight) cement that can be found. Anyone? I have an idea rolling around in this old head of mine. I will let everyone know if it works. Thanks---------Sandy G. in FL Be kind to everyone, because everyone is having a hard time. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 1 22:33:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 21:34:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: Suzanne Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Arnold and Giraffe joos Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 21:35:10 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.133510.0> References: <<1999Apr1.155659.0>> Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk T Suz wrote: PASS THE TISSUE PLEASE! Suzanne, what in tarnation are you doing! I'm sitting at my puter, working away, in comes this teardrop from heaven!! Bang! O.K. now that I'm not balling anymore, I sincerely thank you for your openness, sweetness and being. You have brought many a smile to my face too even though my mascara is running now darn it :) Life is too short not to tell the ones you care about how you feel about them & I'm glad Arnold knew how you felt about him :) I've met some here at bungi who will never leave my mind, who have taught me great lessons about life and friendship. So from me to you a big ole squishy hug and to the bungians who have touched my life thanks to you too. O.k. back to work :) Pam ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 00:31:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 23:35:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: townsqr.com!tinkerbell From: "tinkerbell" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: newbie Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 01:36:36 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.173636.0> Precedence: bulk Am new to this list, and new to stained glass. Am taking classes, have taken four classes and have two more to go. I love it!! Have stuff ready to make my first stepping stones, although class is not on stepping stones I just fell for them the first time I saw them. I live on a small farm in the Ozarks, am an LPN, and a grandmother. Would love some info on sites with patterns, very few available locally. Wishing everyone lots of luck with all their projects. Some of it sounds very wonderful. light and love, tinkerbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 01:03:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 00:07:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: K See Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 02:13:08 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.20138.0> Precedence: bulk I just tried to email you and it bounced back...fatal errors...that sort of thing. Do you have a new email address? I was inquiring as to your plans for Glass Visions and E tour. T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 04:15:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 03:16:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass From: "K See" To: "Suzanne" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: K See Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 06:14:58 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.11458.0> Precedence: bulk Here I am. Yes, I decided to try this free service. Didn't like AOL. So far so good. You no what they say..you get what you pay for. I'm a happy camper for now. Look forward to hearing from you. K See "Art is the only way to run away without leaving home." Twyla Tharp -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 4:12 AM Subject: K See >I just tried to email you and it bounced back...fatal errors...that sort >of thing. Do you have a new email address? > >I was inquiring as to your plans for Glass Visions and E tour. > >T Suz >-- >"Winning isn't always finishing first. >Sometimes winning is just finishing." >Manuel Diotte >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 04:40:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 03:25:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass From: "K See" To: "Suzanne" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: cool stuff, sorta glass Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 06:22:49 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.12249.0> Precedence: bulk Kind of makes you giddy, doesn't it. How about giving them an "artists profile" so they can give it to the people with the greatest taste in OK? I was asked to provide one at the gallery were I have boxes and still haven't come up with one yet! K See "Art is the only way to run away without leaving home." Twyla Tharp -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 12:42 AM Subject: cool stuff, sorta glass >Things are going well with my giftshop guys. Day before yesterday, I >took some things to show them..and they bought everything. :o) Called >this morning and said they sold one of my fan lamps for $65. Wish I >could do that! :o) > >Oh, and they keep calling me an artist! ;o) I always wanted to be one >of those. hahaha... ...and my brother in law, yesterday told my husband >"cut her some slack, she's an artist." Guess I do my best work when I >am out there just squirrelin around! > >My son this evening was sitting in my workshop talking to me while I was >working. He kept saying "me wanna be a mommy." I said, "dont you mean >you want to be a daddy?" He said "nope, me wanna be a mommy" I asked >him well why would he rather be a mommy than a daddy? He said..."Me >wanna be a mommy, make glass!" Too Cool! ;o) > >T Suz > > >-- >"Winning isn't always finishing first. >Sometimes winning is just finishing." >Manuel Diotte >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 04:51:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 04:00:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: re:stepping stone Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 06:41:33 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.14133.0> Precedence: bulk Last year i unpacked at a crack fair and found that one of my garden stones (I don't encourage stepping on them), had a good scratch across one of the smaller pieces. So I made a big sign that said "Scratch sale", put it on the stone near the scratch and marked it substantially...and it sold quickly! (can't figure out how that scratch got there. probably got a rock or something in the padding materials when I packed at one show.) Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 06:53:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 04:00:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: re:stepping stone Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 06:41:33 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.14133.0> Precedence: bulk Last year i unpacked at a crack fair and found that one of my garden stones (I don't encourage stepping on them), had a good scratch across one of the smaller pieces. So I made a big sign that said "Scratch sale", put it on the stone near the scratch and marked it substantially...and it sold quickly! (can't figure out how that scratch got there. probably got a rock or something in the padding materials when I packed at one show.) Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 07:15:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 04:13:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'tinkerbell'" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: newbie Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 07:15:36 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.21536.0> Precedence: bulk tink, welcome. go here: http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/ MIke is on this list and has links to almost every place on the web. lots of good info too. LInda -----Original Message----- From: tinkerbell [SMTP:tinkerbell@townsqr.com] Sent: Friday, April 02, 1999 4:37 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: newbie Am new to this list, and new to stained glass. Am taking classes, have taken four classes and have two more to go. I love it!! Have stuff ready to make my first stepping stones, although class is not on stepping stones I just fell for them the first time I saw them. I live on a small farm in the Ozarks, am an LPN, and a grandmother. Would love some info on sites with patterns, very few available locally. Wishing everyone lots of luck with all their projects. Some of it sounds very wonderful. light and love, tinkerbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 07:54:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 06:38:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Bevels and Glue chip matching? Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:34:20 EST Message-ID: <1999Apr2.143420.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/1/99 9:30:44 PM, barbaraelmore@yahoo.com wrote: >Should glue chip side on the glass match glue chip side on the bevels? Good question..... a while back I was at a party and noticed that the host's windows had the same thing - glue chip glass with the smooth side "up," and glue chip bevels with the glue chip side up. It did look a little odd, but obviously you're not the only one who's doing it that way! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 08:20:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 06:38:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Arnold and Giraffe joos Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:34:18 EST Message-ID: <1999Apr2.143418.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/1/99 11:54:28 PM, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com wrote: >The first thing I saw him talk about was giraffe joos. So, what *is* giraffe joos, what is it supposed to do, etc.? It sounds like something the folks at QVC might be hawking, between the spray-on hair and the cubic-zirconia replica of the Princess Diana tiara! Now Patrick, don't go whippin' out the ol' credit card just yet....... :-) Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 08:26:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 07:16:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: tinkerbell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: newbie Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 10:15:45 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.51545.0> References: <<1999Apr1.173636.0>> Precedence: bulk tinkerbell wrote: > > Am new to this list, and new to stained glass. Am taking classes, have taken > four classes and have two more to go. I love it!! Have stuff ready to make > my first stepping stones, although class is not on stepping stones I just > fell for them the first time I saw them. > I live on a small farm in the Ozarks, am an LPN, and a grandmother. Would > love some info on sites with patterns, very few available locally. > Wishing everyone lots of luck with all their projects. Some of it sounds > very wonderful. light and love, tinkerbell > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass go to http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/ links page 3. there's a bunch of links for free patterns there. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 09:05:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 07:29:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: re: lead stretcher Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 07:28:21 -0800 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Shari, I'm rolling on the floor in pure chuckling form, as I can just picture you (sort of) doing the balancing act with the table and the floor!! My vise is also on the work table, I tend to give my lead little tugs until it stretches with the finial stretch breaking the lead...ALWAYS I have this surprize feeling!!!... I know it's going to happen, but when it does I'm like sayin'.... "OH???":):):)...we're done now. Decided once to bring it in the house...had no where really to put it, but since I lived in a log house the only place was on the house!!! Thanks for the smile! Cindy PS...Linda Jo, anywhere on the house can you put it???GRIN. >From Linda Jo. > > >Linda Jo: I have mine on one end of my table, and then stretch the came >clear across the table. I actually brace myself while I am pulling by >putting one foot up on the table leg, which keep the table from being pulled >towards me. Does that make sense? Anyway, when it does break, I tend to go >flying. Otherwise, it works great! > >S > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 09:31:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 07:37:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stmassociates.com!shigbee From: "Shari Higbee" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Arnold and Giraffe joos Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:40:06 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.1406.0> Precedence: bulk I have never heard anyone else ever say anything about >giraffe joos. Arnold couldnt beleive that everyone didnt use it. ;o) >Well, I have used it every day since I got it...and man...it is almost >too easy. Kwik Clean too. This stuff is great. > I remember hearing about this stuff a year or so ago, but I don't even remember what it was used for. Also, I remember asking my local supplier about it and they'd never heard of it. Would you mind telling us again what Giraffe Joos is and where one can purchase it? Shari ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 09:36:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 07:43:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass From: "K See" To: "tinkerbell" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: newbie Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 06:41:15 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.14115.0> Precedence: bulk Welcome Tinkerbell. There are ton's of sites out there...here are a few http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/links2.htm http://www.dodgestudio.com/links.htm http://www.penrose.com/glass/ http://www.gate.net/~heyou/glaslink.htm from these sites you will find oddles of great things. For patterns you can get many from the suppliers for starters. I've check out every site and have bookmarked the one's I go to a lot. K See "Art is the only way to run away without leaving home." Twyla Tharp -----Original Message----- From: tinkerbell To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 3:39 AM Subject: newbie >Am new to this list, and new to stained glass. Am taking classes, have taken >four classes and have two more to go. I love it!! Have stuff ready to make >my first stepping stones, although class is not on stepping stones I just >fell for them the first time I saw them. >I live on a small farm in the Ozarks, am an LPN, and a grandmother. Would >love some info on sites with patterns, very few available locally. >Wishing everyone lots of luck with all their projects. Some of it sounds >very wonderful. light and love, tinkerbell > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 09:52:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 07:52:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Where are all the Bungians? Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 07:52:18 PST Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Hi there, I'd like to add myself onto the list for the who live where project. Glenna Rand - San Jose, CA Where do we view everyone's info? -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 09:56:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:18:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" , Subject: Re: newbie Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 07:15:50 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr1.231550.0> Precedence: bulk Hello Tinker, Here is a page where they list many places to find free patterns. http://members.aol.com/sgbds/free.html This ought to be a good start, then you can use a search term in a search engine, I have put one below, that I have a book mark for. I like using SavySearch. http://www.savvysearch.com/search?q=stained+glass+patterns&op=p&cat= Sincerely, Bud Britt Unity Church of Tustin computerministry@unitytustin.org http://www.unitytustin.org 14402 South Prospect Ave. Tustin, CA 92780 714-730-3444 -----Original Message----- From: tinkerbell To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 12:40 AM Subject: newbie |Am new to this list, and new to stained glass. Am taking classes, have taken |four classes and have two more to go. I love it!! Have stuff ready to make |my first stepping stones, although class is not on stepping stones I just |fell for them the first time I saw them. |I live on a small farm in the Ozarks, am an LPN, and a grandmother. Would |love some info on sites with patterns, very few available locally. |Wishing everyone lots of luck with all their projects. Some of it sounds |very wonderful. light and love, tinkerbell | | |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 10:16:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:03:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Happy Easter Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:03:28 -0800 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Hi all!! Just wishing you all a very Happy Easter. In a world of so much saddness and hardship and wars, every little bit helps make the world a better place and that's where you guys come in! I have seen so much caring and sharing since I've joined and it really warms my soul. Thanks for allowing me to be apart of this group. Best wishes!!! Cindy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 10:27:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:36:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: re:stepping stone Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 08:34:16 -0800 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990402083416.009ab480@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> References: <<1999Apr2.14133.0>> Precedence: bulk At 06:41 AM 4/2/99 -0500, Dorothy wrote: >Last year i unpacked at a *crack* fair [clip] lol...I'm sorry...this just doesn't fit my image of you as a new Grandma ;-) Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 10:45:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:52:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Re: lead stretcher Diagram Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:39:28 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.03928.0> Precedence: bulk I have posted a diagram for a lead stretcher that I saw in a old magazine. For someone who can use a hand saw, and a drill, and a screwdriver, it ought to be pretty simple to make one, for real cheap. http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ Sincerely, Bud Britt Unity Church of Tustin computerministry@unitytustin.org http://www.unitytustin.org 14402 South Prospect Ave. Tustin, CA 92780 714-730-3444 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 10:59:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:21:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stmassociates.com!shigbee From: "Shari Higbee" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Thanks to all! Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:22:59 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.32259.0> Precedence: bulk In case y'all haven't heard this recently, I just wanted to say thanks. It's so nice to have "friends" out there with the same interests as me. Even better, it's great to have a place to turn for a quick answer to some dumb question or other. I've been doing glass for a couple of years, and I'm a complete addict. It's my hobby, my therapy, my escape, etc. I spend most evenings and all weekend long in the garage with my "books-on-tape" going and just glassing up a storm! But I don't know anyone else in the area who shares my passion. Also have nowhere to turn for Q&As except the local vendors, and they are a bit "snobbish" with information. (I.e., pay for another class and we'll tell you..." attitude.) So I appreciate everyone's willingness to share and answer questions (without judgment!) and help a beginner along. Shari in SLC ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 11:23:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:16:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Stepping Stone & the fix Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 09:16:29 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.11629.0> Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk IMHO, Two solutions exist for the stepping stone fix. 1. You can "fix it" by chipping it out. Yikes! 2. Scream, cuss and have a glass of wine. I would go with number 2 and have done so successfully a few times. After your second glass of wine the crack looks much better by the way. After the 3rd glass, well who cares! If you pour your own stones, sometimes during the curing process your glass will crack. How do you prevent it from happening or lessen it from happening? Well what you have is a shrinkage problem I would say. And who likes to have one of those ;o I believe it all has to do with the mixture. If you add too much water you get shrinkage and your glass cracks. Don't use any more water than you have to and when your first pouring your own this will be an experimental process until you find the right formula. It doesn't matter if you use diamondcrete or your own formula for stones the concept is still the same. That has been the hardest part of stones for me, the right formula. Same goes with the way I make my stones. I use pre made pavers and grout. The grouting part was the hardest. It wasn't the design, the glass cutting etc. it was the grout mixture part. A concrete company when loading a truck will take a test sample to ensure the pour will be good and the right one for the job. Different jobs require different concrete mixtures I believe. So they test it to make sure the mixture is correct and will withstand the job. Same with stones, your pour or mixture must be perfect. One of the best sites on the net about mortar is Cole's place. http://www.gi.alaska.edu/crc/staff/cole/mine/index.html He really knows what he is talking about and he's a nice guy too :) If you have any questions that he doesn't answer on his pages you surely can e-mail him and I'm sure he would answer you politely and promptly. Tell him I sent you his way if your reluctant to e-mail him. But get your mixture "right" and your cracking will lessen considerably. Pam -- ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 11:37:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:33:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: Mosfunland@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: stepping stone/crackfair Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:28:11 EST Message-ID: <1999Apr2.172811.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/2/99 7:52:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, shad@mail2.nai.net writes: << Last year i unpacked at a crack fair and found >> YIKES!!!!! We have crack fairs in Philly, but everything comes in little vials.... Maureen....still chuckling ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 12:01:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:55:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: Mosfunland@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: crackfairs..... Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:51:34 EST Message-ID: <1999Apr2.175134.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/2/99 7:52:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, shad@mail2.nai.net writes: << Last year i unpacked at a crack fair and found >> YIKES!!!!! We have crack fairs in Philly, but everything comes in little vials.... Maureen....still chuckling ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 12:13:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:08:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: sprintmail.com!MollysGlass From: "Molly Keys" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: NG; blue tutu sighting Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:10:04 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.6104.0> Precedence: bulk I know there was much concern for Patrick before St. Patrick's day. I want to set all minds at ease and let you know I saw him yesterday and I'm not sure but I believe he was looking for the Easter Bunny (so they could co-ordinate their outfits). Bye the way he does look good in blue. Happy Easter to all, Molly ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 12:49:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:36:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Shari Higbee Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Arnold and Giraffe joos Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 12:41:26 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.64126.0> References: <<1999Apr2.1406.0>> Precedence: bulk Shari Higbee wrote: > > I have never heard anyone else ever say anything about > >giraffe joos. Arnold couldnt beleive that everyone didnt use it. ;o) > >Well, I have used it every day since I got it...and man...it is almost > >too easy. Kwik Clean too. This stuff is great. > > > > I remember hearing about this stuff a year or so ago, but I don't even > remember what it was used for. Also, I remember asking my local supplier > about it and they'd never heard of it. Would you mind telling us again what > Giraffe Joos is and where one can purchase it? > > Shari > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass The bottle says it is a hydrophobic :o) polymer coating. You use it instead of wax or polish. Says it lasts for looooonngg time. Then to clean you just wipe with Damp cloth. You just wipe it on with a cloth, let it dry then buff. Easy as pie. I love it. Arnold was the only one I know for sure that carried it. If you would like, I bet Mary-Anne his wife would be of help finding it, and I could ask her. Not in a hurry to bring it up with her though. I'd like to give her a little time. Dont know what she is going to do with his business, or if one of his kids might take it over. They may all be pretty well established as I beleive the youngest was 42. The bottle only says "Another great product from The Glass Giraffe". Pa. Suzanne says she thinks they are in Florida. Any Florida Bungians know any more about it? I still polish like I used to if I am not going to patina...but with patina..you betcha I use the giraffe joos! Tulsa Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 13:16:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:45:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ucdavis.edu!krmcdonald From: "Kathe R. Mc Donald" To: "'Glenna Rand'" , "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Where are all the Bungians? Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:50:14 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.65014.0> Organization: SOM - Office of Curricular Support Precedence: bulk Kathe McDonald - Sacramento, CA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 13:25:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:46:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Arnold and Giraffe joos Date: Fri Apr 2 10:45:06 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.8236.0> Precedence: bulk sparks here is what my catalog says "a hydro-phobic polymer coating for art glass that leaves no residue of any kind and lasts for years. Used properly, it virtually eliminates flux corrosion and oxidation from all types of stained glass projects and out performs wax-type products 10 to 1. quite simply the best finish to use when it really matters." any other questions? oh yeah, comes in 8 and 16oz okey dokey? debbie taylor kleeman@one.net http://www.taylordexpressions.com your complete stained glass supply source Taurus II Ring Saw $399.00 plus shipping 1-888-488-9616 -----Original Message----- From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 11:32 AM Subject: Re: Arnold and Giraffe joos > >In a message dated 4/1/99 11:54:28 PM, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com wrote: > >>The first thing I saw him talk about was giraffe joos. > >So, what *is* giraffe joos, what is it supposed to do, etc.? It sounds like >something the folks at QVC might be hawking, between the spray-on hair and >the cubic-zirconia replica of the Princess Diana tiara! > >Now Patrick, don't go whippin' out the ol' credit card just yet....... :-) > > >Sparks > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 13:50:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:15:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim Atwood" To: "Sandy Gustafson" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Cement Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:21:59 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.12159.0> Precedence: bulk What sort of strength and wear characteristics? Cement as in a stepping stone or came cement? The way to make cement lighter weight is to add what are usually called "micro-balloons". Looks like a powder or fine sand. But they are really little tiny plastic balloons filled with air. They will work in cement same as fine sand, but they weigh almost nothing. They are almost as strong as sand. Cement made this way will wear almost as well as regular cement though I have noticed it developing a smooth shine in heavy traffic areas. I wish I was near my shop so I could give you exact brand names, but I'm not. I get mine direct from a local epoxy manufacturer - they are commonly used to make extremely light weight epoxy laminates for ultra-light aircraft. I know Lee Valley Tools catalogue has them. Movie prop houses use them to make light weight "stones" for applications which will be walked on (i.e. Styrofoam will not work). A large cement supplier probably would carry it. Possibly the big home improvement centres might have it, but I do not know. You mix micro-balloons in the same proportions (by volume) to the cement as you would fine sand or any other "filler" material. Of course, you pay a higher price for special stuff like this. So you will probably want to figure your costs to decide if it is worth it. -----Original Message----- From: Sandy Gustafson To: glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 11:20 PM Subject: Cement > Hi ya all, > >I am looking for the lightest (in weight) cement that can be found. Anyone? >I have an idea rolling around in this old head of mine. >I will let everyone know if it works. > >Thanks---------Sandy G. in FL > > >Be kind to everyone, because everyone is having a hard time. > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 14:09:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:16:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Linda Jo Letscher Subject: Re: lead stretcher Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 20:04:54 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.21454.0> References: <<1999Apr1.111345.0@?>> Precedence: bulk Linda Jo, I have my lead vice on the end of an 8-foot table. This is just longer than the calme that I have supplied. I put one foot behind me, my hip against the table edge and pull firmly. Bob D. has pointed out several times (and at least once to me) that you can over-stretch the calme, which actually weakens the lead. You can observe this as a kind of alligator skin pattern on the surface of the calme. Second. I use a large (8" pair of pliers) to draw the calme. This is large enough to grip the calme easily and still get it comfortably into my hand. The action of holding the handles of the pliers in you hand(s) while pulling works the same way as the lead vice. The harder you pull the tighter the pliers grip. To clamp the free end in vice grips is, in my opinion, asking for trouble through breakage - not so much the calme as your own bones as you fall. Firm, steady drawing of the calme toward yourself is the rule. You aren't trying to get more length out of the calme, you are trying to straighten it. After you have straightened it, dress the leaves by using your stopping knife to press the leaves of the calme down on the table top. This helps to temper the lead and makes it easier to lift the glass into the channel, especially on round lead calme. Steve In message <1999Apr1.111345.0@?>, Linda Jo Letscher writes >I don't seem to have an area in my garage/studio to put the holding end of >my lead stretcher. I tried on my new workbench but when I start to pull I >move the workbench. >So then I took it out on a flower bed that is brick and the small lip on the >stretche is enough to grab and pull but if I even give it the least little >angle up off it comes. So do any of you have a suggestion where to put it? >What I did do was I screwed it to a big tree in my front yard for now. I am >using vise grips for the other end which works ok, sometimes it bites a >little hard into the lead and breaks but oh well...!! >Linda Jo > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 14:29:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:20:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: About the Updated Who's Where in Bungi-Land list Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:20:29 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.92029.0> Precedence: bulk Wonderful, Steve, what a great reference. Thanks, Linda Campbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 16:13:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:39:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Links Pages for Patterns, Ideas, Etc. Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:26:27 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.42627.0> Precedence: bulk http://www.gi.alaska.edu/crc/staff/cole/mine/studios.html http://aries27.uwaterloo.ca/nglass/index.html Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 16:35:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:40:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Las Vegas Convention??? Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:27:38 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.42738.0> Precedence: bulk Does anyone know when the stained glass convention in Las Vegas is??? Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 17:17:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:57:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Molly Keys Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG; blue tutu sighting Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 15:59:26 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.95926.0> References: <<1999Apr2.6104.0>> Precedence: bulk Molly Keys wrote: > > I know there was much concern for Patrick before St. Patrick's day. I want > to set all minds at ease and let you know I saw him yesterday and I'm not > sure but I believe he was looking for the Easter Bunny (so they could > co-ordinate their outfits). Bye the way he does look good in blue. > > Happy Easter to all, > Molly > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass I was laughing with my gift shop guys the other day discussing how I could dress them up! ;o) Told them about Patricks Tutu...and they all want to meet him! lol..before I left one bent down and asked me quietly if my friend in Texas was really a drag queen! I laughed sooo hard. This guy is such a hoot! Think we will end up good friends. T Suz They had me rolling. Before I left -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 17:47:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:04:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Little quick Challenge Project,,, Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:16:26 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.41626.0> Precedence: bulk Hello Everyone, On the page listed below is a little quick challenge project, took me about 2-3 hours to do, it is a Escher optical illusion, see if you can make the cuts without using a grinder. Did all of them expect one, the first try, that one took three try's, and it was the smallest one, and the one that looked the simplest, it helped me to learn more about glass. I used scrap to make mine, it's not that big, basically a suncatcher. I got the design from a font that I found on the net. Brought it into Corel, resized it, and printed. To make it faster downloading, I shrunk it, my finished one is about the size of a 8.5x11 sheet of paper. Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 18:04:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:19:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: lead stretcher Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 17:27:13 +0000 Message-ID: <199904022219.RAA13465@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > you can > over-stretch the calme, which actually weakens the lead. I've been keeping mum waiting for someone to point that out. If the came breaks, you've pulled too hard. You've missed the point of came stretching entirely. It isn't a subset of the Olympics. I should have known that Steve would be the one to say it. Perhaps the maxim should be, "One must keep calm whilst stretching calme." Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 18:37:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:53:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: crackfairs..... Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 17:52:30 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.125230.0> References: <<1999Apr2.175134.0>> Precedence: bulk Okay, you try to type at 6:30 am! BTW, I'm online at 5:45 pm! Dorothy Mosfunland@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/2/99 7:52:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, > shad@mail2.nai.net writes: > > << Last year i unpacked at a crack fair and found >> > > YIKES!!!!! We have crack fairs in Philly, but everything comes in little > vials.... > > Maureen....still chuckling > ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 19:12:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:02:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: stepping stone Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 18:00:29 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.13029.0> References: <<1999Apr2.14133.0>> Precedence: bulk Family Account wrote: > Last year i unpacked at a crack fair and found that one of my garden .......................................craft!!!!! Okay? > stones (I don't encourage stepping on them), had a good scratch across > one of the smaller pieces. So I made a big sign that said "Scratch > sale", put it on the stone near the scratch and marked it down (left out a word too) > substantially...and it sold quickly! (can't figure out how that scratch > got there. probably got a rock or something in the padding materials > when I packed at one show.) > > Dorothy It's been a long week (but a good one...you all know that the University of Connecticut men's basketball team won the National Championship, too, this week, don't you?) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 21:23:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 17:46:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Myna Bird Pattern Needed Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 20:42:30 EST Message-ID: <1999Apr3.14230.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Guys, I would like to make a myna bird for a dying woman. She had one for years and I would like to hang it from the ceiling on a perch, close to her bed so she may view it. I do not own any bird books and can't see myself doing anymore birds in the near future. Does anyone have a pattern handy that could be scanned or sent snail mailed to me? I am told that the bird is basically black with a yellow or orange beak and a mask under its eyes extending to the side of its head. If anyone has a color photo, I could draw my own pattern from it, no problem. Thanks in advance to anyone in bungiland who can help me. Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 22:00:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 18:21:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cyberportal.net!dmj From: "Dean Johnson" To: "Bungi List" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Arnold and Giraffe joos Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 21:18:24 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.161824.0> References: <<1999Apr2.64126.0>> Precedence: bulk >Suzanne says she thinks they are in Florida. Any Florida Bungians > know any more about it? The Glass Giraffe is run by a great guy, Jeff Eckes. He is a regular on the hotglass list (hotglass@list.bb.net). I don't know if Jeff has a website, but here is his email address: glassgiraffe@earthlink.net Drop him a line! Elizabeth Johnson dmj@cyberportal.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 22:27:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 18:28:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: scci.net!melissah From: Melissa Hall To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Lead vs foil Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 21:20:05 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19990502212005.006ad818@scci.net> Precedence: bulk Hi All, Here's another newbie question. I have noticed that many of you seem to do leaded panels as opposed to foiled panels. The lady who gave my intro class was very biased toward foil and didn't even seem too interested in discussing lead. Is there anything I can do in lead that I can't do in foil? When would I want to use one instead of the other or is it just personal preference? I am guessing that a leaded panel would stand up better when exposed to the elements... Just wondering, Melissa ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 23:18:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:16:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!barbaraelmore From: barbara elmore To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: lead stretcher Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:13:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1999Apr2.111326.0> Precedence: bulk I, too, do not have the room to stretch the full length of lead came. I solved the problem by attaching the stretcher to the end of my work bench, but I **cut** the lead came in half before I stretch it. Dealing with half the length seems to solve my problem of where to lay the came to keep it straight after it is stretched. Barbara _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 23:33:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:19:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: stretching lead Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:16:30 -0800 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk So if you stretch lead came and it breaks at where you held our pliers at, (at the end)... you've gone too far? Doesn't happen all the time but sometimes it does. I've always thought it was from holding on to the pliers too tight and stretching the came narrow at the pliers, hence it snaps there. Cindy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 2 23:46:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:21:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!gcanvas From: "James C. Kelly" To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: stepping stones Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 22:21:22 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.172122.0> Precedence: bulk Sandy G. asked, >>Hi Jim, >>What did you use to place the new glass piece in the already >>harden mortar and cement. Please explain the process you >>used. >>Thanks----------Sandy G. I hate reliving this experience. I won't do it again. But since you asked, I chipped the glass out with the screwdriver tip, then chipped enough of the = underlying cement to allow room for a new piece of glass and some silicone cement, = clear silicone obvoiusly since the piece I was replacing was clear irridized, a dragonfly wing, Now the next and most important step was to threaten all grandchildren with bodily harm if they ran over the steps again, just kidding. Actually, I have been lying, I carefully instructed my wife in = the manly art of concrete chipping and she chipped out the glass and cement. Hate to admit that. So far the replacement is still in place and the kids run over the stones anyway. I highly = recommend never calling these things stepping stones. Advertise them as garden decorations, or garden stones. You will decrease calls for replacing broken glass, calls for fixing broken legs from slipping = on wet stones and probably add ten years to the life span of the stone and reduce the likelihood = of old friends never speaking to you again.. Enough. Jim Kelly Virginia Beach VA gcanvas@compuserve.com Friday, April 02, 1999 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 10:12:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 21:29:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: crackfairs..... Date: Fri Apr 2 21:29:21 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.19721.0> Precedence: bulk see, you wouldn't be so affected if you hadn't done all those crack fairs! debbie taylor kleeman@one.net http://www.taylordexpressions.com your complete stained glass supply source 1-888-488-9616 -----Original Message----- From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 9:47 PM Subject: Re: crackfairs..... >Okay, you try to type at 6:30 am! BTW, I'm online at 5:45 pm! >Dorothy > >Mosfunland@aol.com wrote: > >> In a message dated 4/2/99 7:52:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, >> shad@mail2.nai.net writes: >> >> << Last year i unpacked at a crack fair and found >> >> >> YIKES!!!!! We have crack fairs in Philly, but everything comes in little >> vials.... >> >> Maureen....still chuckling >> ---- > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 10:12:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 21:06:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: glass@intrastar.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Glass notes Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 21:06:17 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.13617.0> References: <<002701be7d8c$cc526d40$3c669cd1@default>> Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk Whoa, cool Bob! Great site! Thanks! Pam Bob E Duchesneau wrote: > Go to: http://www.glassnotes.com/index.html for hot glass info > including a chart for Bullseye glass, compatability tests, a hot > glass E-mail list, etc.. Bob > > Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 > Think glass: have class. -- ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 10:12:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 22:14:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" Subject: Myna bird Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 22:12:34 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.141234.0> Precedence: bulk I just now read the text that came with the myna bird pic. Made my blood run cold. Never know what a search engine is going to turn up. http://www.anusha.com/mynabird.htm Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 10:13:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 20:48:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Shirley's List" Subject: Glass notes Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 20:45:26 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.124526.0> Precedence: bulk Go to: http://www.glassnotes.com/index.html for hot glass info including a chart for Bullseye glass, compatability tests, a hot glass E-mail list, etc.. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 10:14:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 22:05:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , Subject: Re: Myna Bird Pattern Needed Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 22:01:13 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.14113.0> Precedence: bulk Try: http://www.anusha.com/mynabird.htm I have downloaded the pic and will send to you by seperate message. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 10:19:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 00:54:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Melissa Hall" Subject: Re: Lead vs foil Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 00:18:36 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.161836.0> Precedence: bulk >>When would I want to use one instead of the other or is it just personal preference? << Older classic designs seem to enjoy the regularity of lead. Geometric designs and bevel clusters and bevel borders are also thought by many to be best done in lead. Designs with fine detail look good in foil. 3-D items are mostly best done in foil. Sometimes both methods are combined in one panel, so........ the borders would be lead and the roses in the middle foil. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 10:27:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 01:07:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: , Subject: Re: Arnold and Giraffe joos Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 23:12:12 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr2.151212.0> Precedence: bulk So who is the supplier??? Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: daver!one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 01:42 PM Subject: Re: Arnold and Giraffe joos |sparks |here is what my catalog says | "a hydro-phobic polymer coating for art glass that leaves no residue of |any kind and lasts for years. Used properly, it virtually eliminates flux |corrosion and oxidation from all types of stained glass projects and out |performs wax-type products 10 to 1. quite simply the best finish to use |when it really matters." |any other questions? |oh yeah, comes in 8 and 16oz |okey dokey? | |debbie taylor |kleeman@one.net |http://www.taylordexpressions.com |your complete stained glass supply source |Taurus II Ring Saw $399.00 plus shipping |1-888-488-9616 |-----Original Message----- |From: Witchdoc3@aol.com |To: glass@bungi.com |Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 11:32 AM |Subject: Re: Arnold and Giraffe joos | | |> |>In a message dated 4/1/99 11:54:28 PM, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com wrote: |> |>>The first thing I saw him talk about was giraffe joos. |> |>So, what *is* giraffe joos, what is it supposed to do, etc.? It sounds like |>something the folks at QVC might be hawking, between the spray-on hair and |>the cubic-zirconia replica of the Princess Diana tiara! |> |>Now Patrick, don't go whippin' out the ol' credit card just yet....... :-) |> |> |>Sparks |> |>---- |>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass |> | |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 10:29:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 04:12:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!rwl50 From: Rick To: barbara elmore , glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: lead stretcher Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 04:09:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1999Apr2.20955.0> Precedence: bulk Barb, thats exactly what I do and was going to suggest, you beat me to it. I rarely need a full length of 6 foot lead at one time. Rick === http://home.fuse.net/crafts _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 10:33:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 07:47:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: nettally.com!gypsy2 From: "Sandy Gustafson" To: Subject: Re: stepping stones Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:19:45 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.51945.0> References: <<1999Apr2.172122.0>> Precedence: bulk > and some silicone cement, = Jim Kelly said, Now the next and most > important step was to threaten > all grandchildren with bodily > harm if they ran over the steps > again, Did you really? just kidding. > Actually, I have been lying, Now comes the truth. > I carefully instructed my wife in = the manly art of concrete chipping > and she chipped out the glass > and cement. Hate to admit that. Do you think I could get my husband to do that for me? Not. Your wife is a keeper. > So far the replacement is still > in place and the kids run over the > stones anyway. I highly = > > recommend never calling these > things stepping stones. I learned this when first showing the stones. People kept saying, "They are too pretty to step on." From them on I called them garden stones. For decoration only. > Advertise them as garden > decorations, or garden stones. > You will decrease calls for > replacing broken glass, calls for > fixing broken legs from slipping = > > on wet stones and probably add > ten years to the life span of the > stone and reduce the likelihood = > > of old friends never speaking to you > again.. Thanks Jim for your remeberance and advice. Sandy G. in ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 10:33:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 08:55:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: sk.sympatico.ca!dbarker From: "The Barker Family" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Myna Bird Pattern Needed Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:51:52 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.45152.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Lenore~ Here's a whole bunch of mynah birds for you... http://www.mynahbird.com/multimedia/photos/photos.html Good luck.... : ) Dawn Marie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 11:47:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:58:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Melissa Hall Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Lead vs foil Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:55:00 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.8550.0> Precedence: bulk Melissa, stained glass windows rarely have to stand up to the elements these days..... there are, however, various considerations when deciding whether to use lead or foil, most of them either practical or aesthetic. If you've designed a window that = is very organic, = such as intricate and numerous flowers, you might decide that foil is a better choice because it is easier to manipulate around all those curved and little pieces of glass. If you designed a very geometric window, lead would give you crisper, straighter lines than foil, and you could incorporate various lead widths thus adding another design element to your windows. Furthermore, a cemented window would also give your mor= e structural integrity in a design with lots of straight lines. We sometimes use both= lead and foil in the same window.... a very nice effect when used appropriately. And we often use various widths of lead in the same window. About 90% of our work is in lead and that may be because we do a lot of liturgical work, which is almost always lead. Oh,= and another thing to consider is the style of your window... if it's a Victorian, lead woul= d be indicated... if a Tiffany look, then copper foil might be more appropriate. Hope that= helps. Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 12:02:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:05:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Arnold and Giraffe joos Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:07:25 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.7725.0> Precedence: bulk mmmmmmm cubic zirconians now were talkin'. Tried the instant hair thing and looked like an 8 ball from the local billiard parlor. Think I'll stick to the carnuba wax for the head....smile -----Original Message----- From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 10:30 AM Subject: Re: Arnold and Giraffe joos > >In a message dated 4/1/99 11:54:28 PM, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com wrote: > >>The first thing I saw him talk about was giraffe joos. > >So, what *is* giraffe joos, what is it supposed to do, etc.? It sounds like >something the folks at QVC might be hawking, between the spray-on hair and >the cubic-zirconia replica of the Princess Diana tiara! > >Now Patrick, don't go whippin' out the ol' credit card just yet....... :-) > > >Sparks > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 12:15:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:40:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: "Linda Jo Letscher" , "bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: lead stretcher Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 12:41:31 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.64131.0> Precedence: bulk Linda Jo, Try hanging it on your rafters. Make a frame of 2x4s connected to to the rafters at a comfortable height, attach it. Once attached you can pull down instead of horizontally. I've been planning on trying this myself. Seems like it would be safer also. -----Original Message----- From: Linda Jo Letscher To: bungi.com Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 4:08 PM Subject: lead stretcher >I don't seem to have an area in my garage/studio to put the holding end of >my lead stretcher. I tried on my new workbench but when I start to pull I >move the workbench. >So then I took it out on a flower bed that is brick and the small lip on the >stretche is enough to grab and pull but if I even give it the least little >angle up off it comes. So do any of you have a suggestion where to put it? >What I did do was I screwed it to a big tree in my front yard for now. I am >using vise grips for the other end which works ok, sometimes it bites a >little hard into the lead and breaks but oh well...!! >Linda Jo > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 12:23:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:14:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: "Molly Keys" , "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NG; blue tutu sighting Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:16:08 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.7168.0> Precedence: bulk You caught me Molly. I was looking for the Easter Bunny to make Hasenpfher (sp)....mmmmmmmm -----Original Message----- From: Molly Keys To: Bungi Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 2:32 PM Subject: NG; blue tutu sighting >I know there was much concern for Patrick before St. Patrick's day. I want >to set all minds at ease and let you know I saw him yesterday and I'm not >sure but I believe he was looking for the Easter Bunny (so they could >co-ordinate their outfits). Bye the way he does look good in blue. > >Happy Easter to all, >Molly > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 12:38:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:35:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bio # 98 Rachel Ammann Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:36:43 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.73643.0> Precedence: bulk My name is Rachel Ammann & I live in St Louis, Missouri. I have had an art glass & jewelry business for about ten years now. I am formally trained as a master jeweler, including goldsmithing, diamond grading, and colored stone work. I also have degrees in engineering so I am generally good at technical problems. I took up stained glass as a hobby about 20 years ago, but lost interest after I had more stained glass lamps and windows than would fit in my house. I have been fusing for about ten years. Started with jewelry pieces and have moved up to big bowls and plates. Fusing is a pretty technical subject (there are so many things that can go wrong) so it suits me pretty well. I have been trained in flameworking but never enjoyed it very much. Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 12:58:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:45:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bio #99 Eleni Drafts Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:43:39 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.74339.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Patrick, I definitely don't want misery to befall me so I will make an attempt to write a somewhat interesting (hopefully) bio about a very uninteresting person. My name is Elleni (e-lane-e). It is a Greek name even though we are not Greek. My aunt was dating a Greek doctor when I was born and he suggested the name. I am the third of six children with two older sisters and three younger brothers. My father was a policeman for 28 years - so I had to be very good growing up. I married my wonderful husband, Robert, at the tender age of 18. He was in the Air Force and we moved around a good bit for the next 20 years. Then we settled back near our home town in South Carolina. We will celebrate our 36th wedding anniversary in May. We have three children - a son in Georgia, a daughter in Tennessee and another son in Ohio. We also have two beautiful grand-daughters, Kandis 12 and Trish 11. Over the past 30+ years I have tried a number of hobbies starting with crocheting, knitting, cake decorating, cross stitch, needlepoint, etc. At the ripe old age of 45 I decided to try my hand at painting. Bob Ross on the educational tv channel made it look soooooo easy. I'm not great at it, but I do enjoy it and people seem to love to get my paintings for gifts. This past January I was visiting my sister who just moved to Florida. We were watching HGTV and some woman was on there doing a glass mosaic around a picture frame. We immediately looked up a glass shop and went to buy some scrap glass to do a mosaic with. (This was two days after rushing out to buy stuff to make envelopes with because they had done a segment on envelope making. I've made a total of two envelopes.) We did a small candle holder with nuggets and didn't much like the mess the grout made. I had bought enough scrap glass to do a bathroom window for my hubby's bathroom so I felt like I "had to do it" when I got home. My mother-in-law saw it and wanted one for her bathroom. So I pulled out our local phone book to locate a glass shop. A few weeks later I stopped in only to find out she doesn't sell her scrap glass - she gives it to students to practice on between classes. Students????? Classes?????? I ended up staying three hours that day and taking my first class. I love Lois's one-on-one teaching. You go whenever you want and stay as long as you want. I've done a lot of projects since then. It is truly a passion with me. I would love to be able to sell some of my work one day. I have learned so much since I've been on this list. I thank you all for your help when I've needed it. So many times a minor comment one of you makes can make a big difference to a beginner. Especially when we don't yet know the questions to ask. So thanks again to all of you. Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 13:09:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:56:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Artist's giving back Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:57:58 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.75758.0> Precedence: bulk There is an idea in the Asian culture that roughly speaking translates to "Giving Back". Basically, as I understand it, because you have been graced with life, you must pass on something. This Thursday I will be hosting an Auction to raise funds for the local Public Television Station. I contacted some of our local artisans and asked for a donated piece. All were forthcoming, I would like to thank, Molly Keys, Marti Woodard, and Judy Novak (and of course the girls at Glass and Goodies) for taking the time and expense to help. Additionally, I contacted artists from other media and they to are going to donate. Artisans are very special people. These are the kind of people that are on our list. Caring, busy people who give back. On a business note I will be describing the process and the expense of materials. This might help customers understand the cost in time and materials it takes to produce a work of art. PS: They frowned upon the idea of me wearing my TuTu. What a bunch of conservatives. Hmmmmm maybe today I'll get my ear pierced and put a cubic zicornian in it. Happy Easter to All. Happy Spring to all others. Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 13:32:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 12:39:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Cindy Pesonen Subject: Re: stretching lead Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 21:31:28 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.223128.0> References: <> Precedence: bulk Cindy, there are two possibilities. 1 - you are holding the pliers too tight 2- that as you guess you are pulling too much. Stiff lead may stretch only an inch or two. If I pull really hard I can get my soft 1/2 inch lead to stretch about 10 inches, but that comes close to failure of the calme. So both your suggestions may be right. Steve In message , Cindy Pesonen writes >So if you stretch lead came and it breaks at where you held our pliers at, >(at the end)... you've gone too far? >Doesn't happen all the time but sometimes it does. I've always thought it >was from holding on to the pliers too tight and stretching the came narrow >at the pliers, hence it snaps there. >Cindy > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 14:00:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 12:55:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: NG; edible Easter bunny Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 16:01:10 +0000 Message-ID: <199904032053.PAA26929@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > You caught me Molly. I was looking for the Easter Bunny to make > Hasenpfher (sp)....mmmmmmmm I had to smile. My son and I were in a pet store once, just looking. A rabbit in a cage intended to be sold as a pet, I guess. My son and I were chatting. I observed that it would be delicious on a bed of rice with mushrooms and sour cream. Turned slightly to my right only to discover that I'd been overheard by a woman and her young daughter. They were horrified. Shocked, ah say, shocked! Well, heck. I've raised rabbits (and chickens) to eat, not pet! I know for a fact that meat doesn't materialize in this life complete with Saran wrap on a styrofoam tray. Lots of people apparently don't realize that. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 14:57:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:51:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: microsoft.com!a-damont From: "Damon Torgerson (Solutions IQ)" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: seattle glass artist Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:50:24 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.55024.0> Precedence: bulk Hello I'm writing this for my friend, I am looking for a glass artist in, I think, the greater Seattle area. He has been featured on the Discovery Channel. I don't recall his name, company, or anything else other than the fact that he has a patch over one eye. He also has curly fuzzy hair. She would love to visit his studio and watch him work. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Damon Damon Torgerson MSN A&B (425) 703 2255 x.22942 - office (425) 985 6233 - wireless ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 15:26:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 14:19:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Rachel Amman bio Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 13:51:18 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.55118.0> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk Rachel, I grew up in StLouis, west County actually.. altho I now live in Northern Idaho. Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 15:42:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 14:40:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Giraffe goos Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 16:45:26 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.104526.0> Precedence: bulk I emailed Jeff Eckes, producer of Giraffe Joos. He sent me this url as a place where Giraffe Joos can be found. http://www.glasswarehouse.com/ All you supplies suppliers on list could always carry some. I can give you Jeffs phone number if you are interested in carrying it. T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 15:59:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 15:10:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cyberhighway.net!specfam From: Sprecher To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: polarized film Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 15:06:29 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.7629.0> Precedence: bulk I am trying to find a place to buy some polarized film to make my own stress testers for fused glass. I would appreciate any help. Thank you. Lynda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 16:49:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 15:49:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Pkelly" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Artist's giving back Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 18:46:25 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.134625.0> Precedence: bulk We give to numerous charities on a regular basis, but one of our faves is= the public tv art auction every April.... not only is it a good cause, your friends and= family get to see your work on the tube! Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 17:01:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 15:58:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Damon Torgerson (Solutions IQ)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: seattle glass artist Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 18:56:41 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.135641.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Damon Torgerson (Solutions IQ)" > I don't recall his name, company, or anything else other than the fact that he has a patch over on= e eye. He also has curly fuzzy hair. < Um, I think the name is something like Stale Pachouli....who said that!? = = I mean Dale Chihuly! All this snow must be making me feel a tad irreverant! Albert Lewis can = probably tell you whether his studio is open to the public and if some of= his assistants would be willing to demonstrate to a guest. Best regards, Dani G. www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 17:19:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 16:20:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Sprecher Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: polarized film Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 19:17:57 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.141757.0> References: <<1999Apr3.7629.0>> Precedence: bulk Sprecher wrote: > > I am trying to find a place to buy some polarized film to make my own > stress testers for fused glass. I would appreciate any help. Thank > you. > > Lynda > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i don't know if they have a site, probably do, try edmund scientifics. they have that kind of crazy stuff. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 17:53:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 16:53:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!normglass From: norm hanson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: polarized film and Re: failure notice Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 16:55:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1999Apr3.8556.0> Precedence: bulk --- MAILER-DAEMON@mailhost.cyberhighway.net wrote: > Hi. This is the qmail-send program at > mailhost.cyberhighway.net. > I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to > the following addresses. > This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it > didn't work out. > > : > Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.1.1) > > --- Below this line is a copy of the message. > > Return-Path: > Received: (qmail 21529 invoked from network); 3 Apr > 1999 17:50:44 -0700 > Received: from smtp1.cyberhighway.net (209.161.0.33) > by spool2.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 3 Apr 1999 > 17:50:44 -0700 > Received: (qmail 21749 invoked from network); 3 Apr > 1999 17:50:42 -0700 > Received: from web704.mail.yahoo.com (128.11.23.24) > by smtp2.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 3 Apr 1999 > 17:50:42 -0700 > Message-ID: > <19990404005214.23496.rocketmail@web704.mail.yahoo.com> > Received: from [206.124.71.91] by > web704.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 03 Apr 1999 16:52:14 PST > Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 16:52:14 -0800 (PST) > From: norm hanson > Subject: Re: polarized film > To: Sprecher > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > www.edmundscientific.com > (edmund scientific corp) > (or some variation!!! - search on "dogpile" if this > is not exactly > right) > > --- Sprecher wrote: > > I am trying to find a place to buy some polarized > > film to make my own > > stress testers for fused glass. I would > appreciate > > any help. Thank > > you. > > > > Lynda > > > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: > > glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: > > glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 18:08:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 17:07:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: seattle glass artist Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:02:52 EST Message-ID: <1999Apr4.1252.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/3/99 5:58:20 PM, a-damont@microsoft.com wrote: >I am looking for a glass artist in, I think, the greater Seattle area. He >has been featured on the Discovery Channel. I don't recall his name, >company, or anything else other than the fact that he has a patch over one >eye. He also has curly fuzzy hair. That can only be the legendary Dale Chihuly. Check him out at (where else?): http://www.chihuly.com/ My son is visiting me this week...... I think maybe one day we'll just motor on down to Wilmington, DE and see the "Baskets" exhibit.......... Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 18:18:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 17:11:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Happy holidays! Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:08:17 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.15817.0> Precedence: bulk Wishing everyone a wonderful Easter and Passover.... we're headed home to= make = Easter hags (ugly eggs) for 14 nieces and nephews! Best to all, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 18:24:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 17:25:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: "Damon Torgerson (Solutions IQ)" Subject: Re: seattle glass artist Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:15:14 +0000 Message-ID: <199904040107.UAA01034@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > I am looking for a glass artist in, I think, the greater Seattle > area. He has been featured on the Discovery Channel. I don't > recall his name, company, or anything else other than the fact that > he has a patch over one eye. He also has curly fuzzy hair. Hi, Damon. You're talking about Dale Chihuly, who can be contacted at: Pilchuck Glass School 315 Second Avenue South #200 Seattle WA 98104 - 2618 Phone: ( 206 ) 621 - 8422 Fax: (206) 621-0713 Email: pilchuck-info@pilchuck.com Website: http://www.pilchuck.com/ Have fun! Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 18:28:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 17:11:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: erols.com!nadinesfolly From: Nadine Beth Schneider To: "Bob E Duchesneau" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="X-X-X-X-X-X--NeoPlanet-MIME-TEXTandHTML--X-X-X-X-X-X-X45671750-X-X" Subject: re: Myna bird Date: 03 Apr 99 20:12:44 -0800 Message-ID: <199904040117.UAA15952@smtp2.erols.com> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --X-X-X-X-X-X--NeoPlanet-MIME-TEXTandHTML--X-X-X-X-X-X-X45671750-X-X Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob. . . . You are absolutely right--it's amazing what sometimes comes up. I read about the mynah bird and the original story, then about the different people. We used to live in the Philippines, around the time of the Aquino assassination. I found the story of the missing wife incredible. Sure makes you think! Nadine > ** Original Subject: Myna bird > ** Original Sender: "Bob E Duchesneau" > ** Original Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 22:12:34 -0800 > ** Original Message follows... > > I just now read the text that came with the myna bird pic. Made > my blood run cold. Never know what a search engine is going to > turn up. > http://www.anusha.com/mynabird.htm Bob > > Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 > Think glass: have class. > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >** --------- End Original Message ----------- ** > www.nadinesfolly.com --X-X-X-X-X-X--NeoPlanet-MIME-TEXTandHTML--X-X-X-X-X-X-X45671750-X-X Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bob. . . .

You are absolutely right--it's amazing what sometimes comes up.
I read about the mynah bird and the original story, then about the
different people.  We used to live in the Philippines, around the
time of the Aquino assassination. I found the story of the missing
wife incredible.  Sure makes you think!

Nadine


> ** Original Subject: Myna bird
> ** Original Sender: "Bob E Duchesneau" <>BOBDU@prodigy.net>
> ** Original Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 22:12:34 -0800

> ** Original Message follows... 

>
> I just now read the text that came with the myna bird pic. Made
> my blood run cold. Never know what a search engine is going to
> turn up.
> http://www.anusha.com/mynabird.htm    Bob
> 
> Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
> Think glass: have class.
> 
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

>** --------- End Original Message ----------- **

> 

www.nadinesfolly.com --X-X-X-X-X-X--NeoPlanet-MIME-TEXTandHTML--X-X-X-X-X-X-X45671750-X-X-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 18:35:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 17:11:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: seattle glass artist Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:07:46 EST Message-ID: <1999Apr4.1746.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/3/99 8:01:44 PM, GreerStudios@compuserve.com wrote: >Um, I think the name is something like Stale Pachouli.... No, that's his evil twin, whose picture you can see at: http://www.chihuly.com/bib lio/media014B.html Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 20:24:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 19:17:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!chitchay From: Shay Friel To: Al & Carla , Chad Price , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Ways to Have Fun At WalMart Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 22:18:13 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.171813.0> Precedence: bulk Ways to Have an Extra-Special Fun Time At WalMart! 1. Take shopping carts for the express purpose of filling them and stranding them at strategic locations. 2. Get boxes of condoms and randomly put them in peoples carts when they aren't looking. 3. Set all the alarm clocks to go off at ten minute intervals throughout the day. 4. Run up to an employee (preferably a male) while squeezing your legs together and practically yell at him "I need some tampons". 5. Try on bras over top of your clothes. 6. Make a trail of orange juice on the ground, leading to the restrooms. 7. Walk up to an employee and tell him in an official tone, "I,think we've got a Code 3 in housewares," and see what happens. 8. Tune all the radios to a polka station; then turn them all off and turn the volumes to "10." 9. Challenge other customers to duels with tubes of gift wrap. 10. Redress the mannequins as you see fit. 11. Test the fishing rods and see what you can "catch" from the other aisles. 12. Put M&M's on layaway. 13. Move "Caution: Wet Floor" signs to carpeted areas. 14. Set up a tent in the camping department; tell others you'll only invite them in if they bring pillows from Bed and Bath. 15. Contaminate the entire auto department by sampling all the spray air fresheners. 16. Nonchalantly "test" the brushes and combs in Cosmetics. 17. When someone asks if you need help, begin to cry and ask, "Why won't you people just leave me alone?" 18. Look right into the security camera, and use it as a mirror while you pick your nose. 19. Take up an entire aisle in Toys by setting up a full scale battlefield with G.I. Joes vs. the X-Men. 20. Ask other customers if they have any Grey Poupon. 21. While handling guns in the hunting department, suddenly ask the clerk if he knows where the antidepressants are. 22. Switch the men's and women's signs on the doors of the restrooms. 23. Dart around suspiciously while humming the theme from "Mission Impossible." 24. Set up a "Valet Parking" sign in front of the store. 25. In the auto department, practice your "Madonna" look with various funnels. 26. Hide in the clothing racks and when people browse through, say things like "pick me !! pick me!!" and scare them into believing that the clothes are talking to them. 27. When an announcement comes over the loudspeaker, assume the fetal position and scream, "No, no! It's those voices again!" 28. Go to an empty checkout stand and try to check people out. 29. Drag a lounge chair on display over to the magazines and relax. If the store has a food court, buy a soft drink; explain that you don't get out much, and ask if they can put a little umbrella in it. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 20:51:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 19:54:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cyberhighway.net!specfam From: Sprecher To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: thank you Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 19:48:54 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.114854.0> Precedence: bulk Thank you for the information regarding polarized film. I will give it a try. Lynda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 3 21:24:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 20:14:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ezl.com!stepsue From: Sue Prullage To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Happy Easter Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 22:58:32 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr3.165832.0> Precedence: bulk Happy Easter and Passover everyone. Try not to eat too many chocolate eggs. Sue ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 05:29:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 04:43:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: NG Re: Happy holidays! Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 07:42:14 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr4.114214.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/3/99 9:18:52 PM, GreerStudios@compuserve.com wrote: >Easter hags (ugly eggs) That's toooooooo funny! Happy holidaze, everyone! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 05:49:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 04:43:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Stale Patchouli Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 07:42:17 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr4.114217.0> Precedence: bulk Oops, the URL for the picture of Chihuly's evil twin got kind of messed up in my last message........ let's try that again......... http://www.chihuly.com/biblio/media014B.html We now return you to your regularly scheduled program already in progress. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 06:00:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 04:44:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: NG Happy Easter Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 07:42:12 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr4.114212.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/4/99 12:25:29 AM, stepsue@ezl.com wrote: >Try not to eat too many chocolate eggs. Awwwwwwwww, that's easy, there's no such thing as too many chocolate eggs! Li'l ol' Baptist me is indulging in Manischewitz fudgey nut brownie macaroons, and I have it on good authority that the Easter Bunny is bringing my Jewish other half a great big bar of Tropical Source Dark Chocolate with Hazelnuts and Espresso Beans! Happy happy! Sparks, up *way* too early this morning 'cause I've got to be in the city at 8:30 - which my body insists is really 7:30 - for choir rehearsal....... setting the clocks ahead last night made this morning a "sunrise service" by definition :-\ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 06:01:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 04:53:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Bevels and Glue chip matching? Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 07:51:18 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr4.115118.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Barbara, You as the artist determine the correct side of the glue chip glass. I follow no rules of what the standard is or isn't, as it depends on the individual piece you are making. If anyone would question you, you can ALWAYS say that it BELONGS that way as you made that decision while placing panel pieces together. Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 07:01:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 06:00:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass From: "K See" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: NG:It's a Bad one! Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 08:58:43 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.45843.0> Organization: See Glass Precedence: bulk Have another giggle or two. K See "Art is the only way to run away without leaving home." Twyla Tharp ----- Original Message ----- From: David Barnes To: K See Sent: Sunday, April 04, 1999 2:18 AM Subject: Fw: It's a Bad one! | K.See: | Here is the funny thing that Jean Lee sent this week as an attachment. We | opened it(she puts attachment within attachments sometimes it's like a | puzzle to get to them) so I am just forwarding it that way hope it shows up. | Dale | | | | | > | > Subject: It's a Bad one! | > | > | > > > . . . It's a BAD ONE! . . . | > > > | > > >Finally a virus warning I can believe... | > > > | > > >Watch out for "Badtimes"! If you receive an email entitled "Badtimes," | > > >delete it immediately. Do not open it! Apparently this one is pretty | > > >nasty. | > > > | > > >It will not only erase everything on your hard drive, but it will also | > > >delete anything on disks within 20 feet of your computer. It | > > >demagnetizes | > > >the stripes on ALL of your credit cards. It reprograms your ATM access | > > >code, screws up the tracking on your VCR and uses subspace field | > > >harmonics | > > >to scratch any CD's you attempt to play. It will re-calibrate your | > > >refrigerator's coolness settings so all your ice cream melts and your | > > >milk | > > >curdles. It will program your phone AutoDial to call only your | > > >mother-in-law's number. | > > > | > > >This virus will mix antifreeze into your fish tank. It will drink all | > > >your | > > >beer. It will leave dirty socks on the coffee table when you are | > > >expecting | > > >company. Its radioactive emissions will cause your toe jam and | > > >bellybutton | > > >fuzz (be honest, you have some) to migrate behind your ears. It will | > > >replace your shampoo with Nair and your Nair with Rogaine, all while | > > >dating | > > >your current boy/girlfriend behind your back and billing their hotel | > > >rendezvous to your Visa card. It will cause you to run with scissors | and | > > > | > > >throw things in a way that is only fun until someone loses an eye. It | > > >will | > > >give you Dutch Elm Disease and Tinea. It will rewrite your backup | files, | > > > | > > >changing all your active verbs to passive tense and incorporating | > > >undetectable misspellings that grossly change the interpretations of | key | > > > | > > >sentences. | > > > | > > >If the "Badtimes" message is opened in a Windows95/98/NT environment, | it | > > > | > > >will leave the toilet seat up and leave your hair dryer plugged in | > > >dangerously close to a full bathtub. It will not only remove the | > > >forbidden | > > >tags from your mattresses and pillows but it will also refill your skim | > > >milk with whole milk. It will replace all your luncheon meat with Spam. | > > >It | > > >will molecularly rearrange your cologne or perfume, causing it to smell | > > >like dill pickles. It is insidious and subtle. It is dangerous and | > > >terrifying to behold. It is also a rather interesting shade of mauve. | > > >These | > > >are just a few signs of infection. | > > > | > > | > | > | | ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 07:14:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 06:02:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass From: "K See" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Fw: hamsterdance Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:01:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.5110.0> Organization: See Glass Precedence: bulk I think some people have too much time on their hand. Wait till this loads up sound. K See "Art is the only way to run away without leaving home." Twyla Tharp ----- Original Message ----- From: David Barnes To: K See ; Beverly Schindler ; Jean Lee Sent: Sunday, April 04, 1999 2:43 AM Subject: Fw: hamsterdance | Hi! Gang: | Here is something cute that my brother send to us! | Dale | | | To: David Barnes | Sent: Saturday, April 03, 1999 9:05 PM | Subject: hamsterdance | | | Take a look at this site http://www.hamsterdance.com/ | | ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 08:00:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 07:19:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "Eleanor Walsh" , "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Bevels and Glue chip matching? Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 10:13:44 -0400 Message-ID: <199904041414.KAA05752@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 4/4/99 7:51 AM Eleanor Walsh Yegnim@aol.com >Hi Barbara, >You as the artist determine the correct side of the glue chip glass. I >follow no rules of what the standard is or isn't, as it depends on the >individual piece you are making. If anyone would question you, you can >ALWAYS say that it BELONGS that way as you made that decision while placing >panel pieces together. >Lenore OR - another way of putting it - "artistic license." I've had to use that when questioned why my dragonflies don't look exactly like dragonflies!! Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 09:29:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 08:38:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: scci.net!melissah From: Melissa Hall To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Bevels and Glue chip matching? Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 11:35:52 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19990404113552.0069f704@scci.net> References: <<199904041414.KAA05752@uz.ComCAT.COM>> Precedence: bulk Hi all, I had the validity of my work questioned by a woman who had worn a plaid flannel pajama top to work the same day I had brought in a tiny little lamp for my desk. That put a lot of things into perspective for me! hee hee! Melissa At 10:13 AM 4/4/99 -0400, suzy@comcat.com wrote: >4/4/99 7:51 AM Eleanor Walsh Yegnim@aol.com > >>Hi Barbara, >>You as the artist determine the correct side of the glue chip glass. I >>follow no rules of what the standard is or isn't, as it depends on the >>individual piece you are making. If anyone would question you, you can >>ALWAYS say that it BELONGS that way as you made that decision while placing >>panel pieces together. >>Lenore > >OR - another way of putting it - "artistic license." I've had to use that >when questioned why my dragonflies don't look exactly like dragonflies!! >Suzanne > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 10:00:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:06:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bullwhack.com!jackdaws From: To: Subject: EMAIL ADVERTISING WORKS FOR YOU   ADV:384541 Date: Sun,4 Apr 1999 02:36:13 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk E-MAIL-IT SPECIAL Ends april 8th, 1999 ADVERTISING THAT WORKS FOR YOU We Will Assist You in Developing Your Entire Campaign WE CAN CREATE YOUR AD FOR YOU Whether You Are Looking For Sales, Leads or Exposure WITH CB You Can Monitor Your Campaign As It Happens OR We Can Forward Your Responses To You CB OFFERS General Mailings With Fresh Addresses Always ONE WEEK SPECIAL 100,000 $125 200,000 $199 500,000 $375 1 MILLION $695 For More Information Email 4cbmail@usa.net Please Provide Your Name and Contact EMail ==================================================== Under Bill s.1618 TITLE III passed by the 105th U.S. Congress this letter can not be considered spam as long as we include: Contact information & a Remove Link For Removal: nomoreCB@usa.net ================================================ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 10:21:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:12:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: a-znet.com!royalpane From: "Michael Bruno" To: Subject: Seattle Glass Master Dale.... Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 11:09:10 -0500 Message-ID: <199904041619.MAA04040@mail.a-znet.com> Precedence: bulk His studio is called the Boat House and rightly so as it is a converted boat builders house. It is open to the public and info can be found on the internet. The pilchuck school is the hot glass mecca of the world. Key word for a search is Chihuly. I had the opportunity to see him speak and then I met him at a book signing. He is WILD! Also, if you are going to the Las Vegas convention, go to the Beligio (I hope I spelt that right). It has quite the example of Chihuly. Michael The Royal Pane Stained Glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 10:30:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:41:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: A color from PierreRe: NG:It's a Bad one! Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 12:40:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.84047.0> References: <<1999Apr4.45843.0>> Precedence: bulk K See wrote: > Have another giggle or two. > > K See > It is insidious and subtle. It is dangerous and > | > > >terrifying to behold. It is also a rather interesting shade of mauve. > | > > >These > | > > >are just a few signs of infection. This sounds like a color Pierre got when trying to reconstruct the Alicia glass. it is so ugly he only sells it, at large mark up, to people he doesn't like. Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 11:00:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 10:05:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!rwl50 From: Rick To: Dani Greer , Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Happy holidays! Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 10:04:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr4.3431.0> Precedence: bulk Happy Hilidays to all...the house is clean...for awhile anyway until they all show up!! Rick updated4/4/99 === http://home.fuse.net/crafts _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 12:01:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 11:01:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Melissa Hall Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Bevels and Glue chip matching? Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 13:06:16 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.8616.0> References: <<3.0.2.32.19990404113552.0069f704@scci.net>> Precedence: bulk > Hi all, > I had the validity of my work questioned by a woman who had worn a plaid > flannel pajama top to work the same day I had brought in a tiny little lamp > for my desk. That put a lot of things into perspective for me! hee hee! > > Melissa Now, now, I work in my jammers all the time! ;o) Just ask the neighbors! ;o) And I hear there is this really cool English chick that solders in the buff! ;o) T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 12:13:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 11:08:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: NG Happy Easter Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 13:13:04 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.8134.0> Precedence: bulk Happy Easter, Everybody. Wouldnt it be fun if we could *all* get together for an Easter picnic with all families in tow, and each of us bring a stained glass trinket (sp?) to hide for a hunt. Hope everyone is well and happy today. It is a beautiful day, and I am behind in every aspect of my life, as usual, but all is well with my little part of the world. Happy Day to you all. T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 12:25:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 11:20:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Sprecher Subject: Re: polarized film Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 08:07:40 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.9740.0> References: <<1999Apr3.7629.0@?>> Precedence: bulk Lynda, Large photographic suppliers or lighting experts have a wide range of films for covering lights. One of these films is polarised. You must buy in large sheets as they are designed to cover those large lights used in theatres, etc. In the UK a half sheet (about 15 inches square costs 56.00 UK pounds) Steve In message <1999Apr3.7629.0@?>, Sprecher writes >I am trying to find a place to buy some polarized film to make my own >stress testers for fused glass. I would appreciate any help. Thank >you. > >Lynda > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 13:07:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:03:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: northnet.org!frogplay From: "Pamela A. Gilbert" To: glass@intrastar.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Fw: hamsterdance Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 15:03:29 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.8329.0> References: <<00c501be7e9b$3737ff80$cfcf0f04@oemcomputer>> Precedence: bulk I love it, it is so cute and the music makes you want to laugh all over. What a great Easter surprise. Pam G. K See wrote: > I think some people have too much time on their hand. > > Wait till this loads up sound. > > K See > > "Art is the only way to run away without leaving home." > Twyla Tharp > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Barnes > To: K See ; Beverly Schindler ; > Jean Lee > Sent: Sunday, April 04, 1999 2:43 AM > Subject: Fw: hamsterdance > > | Hi! Gang: > | Here is something cute that my brother send to us! > | Dale > | > | > | To: David Barnes > | Sent: Saturday, April 03, 1999 9:05 PM > | Subject: hamsterdance > | > | > | Take a look at this site http://www.hamsterdance.com/ > | > | > > ________________________________________________________ > NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? > Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at > http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 14:05:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 13:23:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: scci.net!melissah From: Melissa Hall To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Bevels and Glue chip matching? Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 16:20:20 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19990404162020.0069f420@scci.net> References: <> Precedence: bulk Hi Linda Jo, It could be a long story and the woman is quite odd (hence the flannel shirt in central FL - It's almost 90 today!) but she takes great pleasure in commenting on how I could improve on anything that I ever bring into work with me. Here's the only example I can think of off the top of my head. I made a tiny little wreath out of wire that had four glass leaves. She proceeds to tell me that I should have made it an odd number of leaves. She tells me that that is the rule. Of course, I proceeded to tell her rules smules and went on my merry way. It was just scrap glass anyway. I was playing. Anyway, before anyone jumps on me for asking her opinion, I don't. Occasionally I bring things to work to remind me through the day that if I continue working I can buy glass! (Among other things like food and doggie treats :) ) Anyway, to make a long story even longer my point was that everyone's a critic! Your own opinion is the only one that really matters in the long run. Oh well, that's too heavy. Onto brighter topics... I'm spending the Easter weekend resurrecting a small panel I cut out a few months after my first class. I was having to grind outside on the porch because I was afraid I would make the neighbors mad if I did it inside the apartment. I snagged the board it was on carrying it back inside and broke a number of pieces. I put it away after that but now I think I'm going to finish it. Last night I was laying it back out to get an idea of what was going to have to be recut and I realized that I sure have come a far way in my cutting skills. Yeah! Silver lining and all that :) I hope you are having a nice Easter! Melissa At 01:29 PM 4/4/99 -0400, you wrote: >Melissa, >Often times people are just jealous that someone they work with has a talent >they don't have. Shine them on. What do you mean the validity of your >work? Did she think you had Chinese slaves in your basment doing it for >you? That since you didn't roll the glass yourself it wasn't valid work? I >am curious?? >Linda Jo > >-----Original Message----- >From: Melissa Hall >To: glass@bungi.com >Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 12:29 PM >Subject: Re: Bevels and Glue chip matching? > > >>Hi all, >> I had the validity of my work questioned by a woman who had worn a plaid >>flannel pajama top to work the same day I had brought in a tiny little lamp >>for my desk. That put a lot of things into perspective for me! hee hee! >> >>Melissa >> >>At 10:13 AM 4/4/99 -0400, suzy@comcat.com wrote: >>>4/4/99 7:51 AM Eleanor Walsh Yegnim@aol.com >>> >>>>Hi Barbara, >>>>You as the artist determine the correct side of the glue chip glass. I >>>>follow no rules of what the standard is or isn't, as it depends on the >>>>individual piece you are making. If anyone would question you, you can >>>>ALWAYS say that it BELONGS that way as you made that decision while >placing >>>>panel pieces together. >>>>Lenore >>> >>>OR - another way of putting it - "artistic license." I've had to use that >>>when questioned why my dragonflies don't look exactly like dragonflies!! >>>Suzanne >>> >>>---- >>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >>> >>> >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 18:22:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 16:17:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Las Vegas Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 17:35:36 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.113536.0> Precedence: bulk There are four of us going to Vegas next weekend. I am really glad you recommend the classes. That was my main motivation. Since I live in rural NM, it means to learn, I have to go somewhere. We talked to one of the wholesalers we order a lot of supplies from, Bendiem (sp?), and they say they do not attend the show in Vegas, they go to the one in Long Beach. They say there is a better turn out. I will be taking Fusing with a Twist on Friday. I hope it is good. At $250.00....I consider this an investment. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 18:39:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 16:22:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Lead vs foil Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 14:58:22 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.75822.0> Precedence: bulk The Bungi group has had some very active discussions in the past on this one. Opinions differ widely on came versus foil. You may want to look at the Bungi archives at http://www.bungi.com/glass - The new index (search engine) for the archives is on the IGGA web site http://www.igga.org/search.htm . Most of the controversy is over the long-term durability of foil panels when exposed to stress and the elements (building shifting, temperature expansion/contraction, wind, etc.). Lead came panels are somewhat more flexible than foil and it is argued this makes them better able to absorb stresses over time and they are therefore less likely to develop cracked pieces. The point has also been made that the techniques of leading windows have been developed over hundreds of years experience with the durability of these windows. It is also argued that the techniques for re-cementing and later restoration of lead came windows is better developed than foiled panels. We are talking about 50 to hundreds of years here, so if the panels we are talking about are not expected to be around that long I think you can ignore this. The glues used in modern foil have only been around for a few decades and it is argued they may not hold up. It is well known how came cements will hold up for weather resistance over scores of years. The position has been taken that the glue backing of foil (which maybe contributes to preventing the window from leaking) will fail over time causing a leaky window. On the other hand it has also been argued the glue on foil serves no purpose after soldering (as evidenced by foiled panels from the Tiffany studios which used a bees wax mixture to hold the foil in place until the soldering was done). I personally prefer foil. I find it fits better with my free-style methods. Plus I do not enjoy all the fitting and later cementing when using came. I do however use came when the design calls for the stronger, more structural lines of came. I also use came around the outside of panels to give something for the frame to grab against. "H" came around the outside also makes the panel more adjustable for final fitting into an existing window frame (H-came can be trimmed around the edges). I have argued that the glues used in backing lead foil have been tested in accelerated weather testing. I also feel the glue is not as important in a foiled panel as cement is in a came panel. The added stiffness of a foil panel is a concern in absorbing future stress, but I feel these concerns are better addressed with proper framing techniques. It is on my list to put together two identically designed windows, one with cemented came and the other with foil. I then intend to subject them both to varying stresses to see if I can get an idea how much difference there really is. However, since I currently have five commissions and a gallery show to get done, I doubt it will be any time soon. Hope this all helps you with your decision. I say it is a matter of personal preference, but I know many here disagree with that. Of course, if there weren't these differences of opinion, this list would become pretty boring after a while. Welcome to Bungi! -----Original Message----- From: Melissa Hall To: glass@bungi.com Date: Saturday, April 03, 1999 12:35 AM Subject: Lead vs foil >Hi All, > Here's another newbie question. I have noticed that many of you seem to >do leaded panels as opposed to foiled panels. The lady who gave my intro >class was very biased toward foil and didn't even seem too interested in >discussing lead. Is there anything I can do in lead that I can't do in >foil? When would I want to use one instead of the other or is it just >personal preference? I am guessing that a leaded panel would stand up >better when exposed to the elements... >Just wondering, >Melissa > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 18:54:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 16:56:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NG Happy Easter,Suzanne.... Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 19:56:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.155623.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks for the sunny light you are radiating today , shine on Suzanne, Happy day to you and your family this special day, take care, Abbie in Va. -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 3:22 PM Subject: NG Happy Easter >Happy Easter, Everybody. > >Wouldnt it be fun if we could *all* get together for an Easter picnic >with all families in tow, and each of us bring a stained glass trinket >(sp?) to hide for a hunt. > >Hope everyone is well and happy today. It is a beautiful day, and I am >behind in every aspect of my life, as usual, but all is well with my >little part of the world. > >Happy Day to you all. > >T Suz >-- >"Winning isn't always finishing first. >Sometimes winning is just finishing." >Manuel Diotte >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 18:58:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 16:42:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: nbnet.nb.ca!mschut From: mschut@nbnet.nb.ca (mschut) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 19:48:28 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990404194828.273fd7de@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca> Precedence: bulk My wife has just recently taken up the fine art of stained glass after watching me do it for the past nine years. She is currently 4 months pregnant. Can anyone tell me if the fumes from soldering are in any way harmful to the baby? She is really worried about it. I am wondering if it is well ventilated during the process, would it really be a problem? This is a great forum for getting answers to many questions I have had over the years. Thanks in advance to anyone who responds. Mike, Pam, Jonathan & Kayla Schut Moncton, New Brunswick ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 19:07:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:08:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: NG Happy Easter Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 21:06:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.17619.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com >setting the clocks ahead last night< Gave me the creeps this morning when I turned on the 'puter and it gave m= e a message that it had re-set the clock without me..... I hate this machine... it ac= ts like its smarter than me. Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 19:18:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:08:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: NG Re: Happy holidays! Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 21:06:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.17617.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com > >Easter hags (ugly eggs) That's toooooooo funny! Happy holidaze, everyone! < It was too hysterical.... we almost died laughing when I opened the egg cartons and inside were dozens of little tan heads with black hair.... looked like we'd been= experimenting with head shrinking.... and with some success I might add. I think every kid should have a = hopelessly irreverant aunt and uncle. ;-) Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 19:23:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:09:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!mschatee From: mschatee@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 21:06:52 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr5.1652.0> Precedence: bulk Hi All, An interesting story I think occured to me yesterday. I was visiting my family on Long Island (NY). I live 5 hours away in Upstate NY and only have access to one stained glass studio and supplier. Well my sister, whose birthday is next week, just redid her dining room and kitchen. So of course I decided that her beautiful full length windows need some decorating. So we figured I would make her two 12 x 30" panels, one for each window. We went to a stained glass supplier that wasn't too far away so she could pick out a pattern and the exact glass she wanted and I would buy it, take it home upstate and make it. Well this store had some BEAUTIFUL pieces on display ( I was literally drooling). And in the back by the pattern books the owner had several patterns tacked to the walls. Well my sister saw one that she absolutely loved, I loved it, my mother loved it. Now all you business owners think about this and let me know your opinion. I was going to buy enough glass to make those 2 panels 12 x30 and probably more. I asked him if he would sell me a copy of the pattern on the wall and he said NO. That these were patterns that he let his students use and that if I wanted to use one I'd have to take his class. I explained to him that I lived 5 hours away and that I've taken classes and I would be happy to pay for a copy of it. He was so damn rude, arrogant and obnoxious, he shrugged his shoulders said "I told you take my class" and turned away. We walked out and I will never go back even though his prices were very reasonable. I just didn't like his attitude. I understand that people design their own patterns for personal use and he actually had 3 different panels hanging in the showroom of that pattern, and if I lived locally I could see he wanted to keep it to himself....but I live 5 hours away and the pattern was drawn and a piece of parchment paper and obviously used many times. He was so rude that if he decided to give it to me now I'd probably tell him to shove it. So the moral of the story is he lost a potential customer since my local supplier is very small, this guy had probably 5 times the amount of stock for glass, tools, foils, etc. and I go to Long Island about 5 or 6 times a year to visit. My supplier is so wonderful he doesn't make us buy books. If we see a pattern we like he says take it with you copy it and bring the book back. He knows we will bring it back and then buy the supplies to make it so the $9.95 for the book sale is irrelevant. I assume that all you suppliers out there in Bungiland are more like my supplier not that arrogant *#@* please say its so! So if anyone thinks I am wrong please tell me. Caren ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 19:32:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:09:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Melissa Hall Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Bevels and Glue chip matching? Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 21:06:22 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.17622.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Melissa Hall > Your own opinion is the only one that really matters in the long run. < Until you go pro.... and then everyone's opinion matters to some degree (because you learn to listen objectively with the idea that you might learn something from someone else) especially your client's who's providing your livelihood. Just another point of view.... Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 19:36:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:18:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Soldering..... Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 21:18:34 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.171834.0> Precedence: bulk This could be hazardous to your health or skin anyway! abbie in Va. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 19:48:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:34:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NG Re: Happy holidays! Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 21:35:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.173539.0> Precedence: bulk Funny.....lol,lol -----Original Message----- From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 8:36 AM Subject: NG Re: Happy holidays! > >In a message dated 4/3/99 9:18:52 PM, GreerStudios@compuserve.com wrote: > >>Easter hags (ugly eggs) > >That's toooooooo funny! Happy holidaze, everyone! > > >Sparks > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 20:00:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 19:13:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Evelyn C Mason Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG Happy Easter,Suzanne.... Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 21:09:16 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.16916.0> References: <<1999Apr4.155623.0>> Precedence: bulk you are such a sweet person, Abbie. ;o) Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 20:22:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:52:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re;Stretcher... Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 20:24:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.162459.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Dani, I read in an article where a cam cleat , like ones used on sailboats, made great stretchers for lead. Have you heard of this before? Take care, Abbie in Va. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 20:31:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 19:28:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: scci.net!melissah From: Melissa Hall To: Dani Greer Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Bevels and Glue chip matching? Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 22:22:47 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19990404222247.00699638@scci.net> References: <<199904042107_MC2-7094-B987@compuserve.com>> Precedence: bulk Touche! Instruction criticism under consideration. ;) Best Regards, Melissa At 09:06 PM 4/4/99 -0400, Dani Greer wrote: >Message text written by Melissa Hall >> Your own opinion is the only one that really matters in the long >run. < > >Until you go pro.... and then everyone's opinion matters to some degree >(because you >learn to listen objectively with the idea that you might learn something >from someone >else) especially your client's who's providing your livelihood. Just >another point of >view.... > >Best, > >Dani Greer > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 20:43:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 19:46:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Dani Greer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG Re: Happy holidays! Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 21:48:15 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.164815.0> References: <<1999Apr4.17617.0>> Precedence: bulk Dani Greer wrote: > > Message text written by INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com > > > >Easter hags (ugly eggs) > > That's toooooooo funny! Happy holidaze, everyone! > < > > It was too hysterical.... we almost died laughing when I opened the egg > cartons and inside > were dozens of little tan heads with black hair.... looked like we'd been= > > experimenting with > head shrinking.... and with some success I might add. I think every kid > should have a = > > hopelessly irreverant aunt and uncle. ;-) > > Best, > > Dani Greer > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass That is so fun Dani! I think you are right, we (me included) all need such aunts and uncles making our lives more fun and memorable. My grandfather was like that. Brought me a *huge bullfrog one time, as a gift! lol...was quite a surprise, as he was also the one that gave me a wonderful quarter horse for a gift. A bull frog was the last thing I was expecting to find in the back of his truck! ;o) They will always have happy memories of you. T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 20:58:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 19:48:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Hi Caren...similar experience..... Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 22:48:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.184847.0> Precedence: bulk I had the same experience when I started out 2 yrs ago....The little shop I went to for information was more interested in selling me something instead of answering my questions on supplies and tools etc. I know everyone is in business to sell but like you said there is some who carry it too far....I don't go there any more......Abbie in Va ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 21:00:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 20:00:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: mschatee@juno.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 22:03:30 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.17330.0> References: <<1999Apr5.1652.0>> Precedence: bulk Well Caren... I am not a retailer..but I tell you what....he was sure rude in my book. I might go back if he was giving glass away, but that is about it. He obviously doesnt need your business, and doesnt care whether he has it one way or the other. What a jerk. T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 21:30:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 20:20:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: eatumup.com!byronwells From: byronwells@eatumup.com (Byron Wells) To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Strip/Circle Cutters? Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 21:24:35 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.152435.0> Precedence: bulk Anyone know of any 'decent' Strip/Circle cutters available?? I've had an old Inland for about 5 years and it's about had it...I ordered a Glastar strip cutter and it's real piece of work.. All plastic, and its warped to boot...I'll be seeing about sending it back... I use a strip cutter quite a bit for diamond pattern doors and such.... Byron... Wells Glassworks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 22:02:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 20:53:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , Subject: Re: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 20:53:35 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.135335.0> Precedence: bulk >>I was going to buy enough glass to make those 2 panels 12 x30 and probably more. I asked him if he would sell me a copy of the pattern on the wall and he said NO. That these were patterns that he let his students use and that if I wanted to use one I'd have to take his class. << I can well understand refusing to sell a pattern but he is already selling this one to his students. Seems like he should have quoted you a price in-as-much as you are from out of town. Bob Ps: Also you said that a dealer let people take books home and copy patterns. I don't do that because it would pi** me off to no end if someone did that with patterns I had made. I've lost more than one sale with this policy. Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 22:33:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 21:21:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "mschut" Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 21:20:23 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.142023.0> Precedence: bulk >>She is currently 4 months pregnant. Can anyone tell me if the fumes from soldering are in any way harmful to the baby? She is really worried about it. I am wondering if it is well ventilated during the process, would it really be a problem?<< I do not have a clear answer for this one and I doubt that you will ever find one. The only real answer is to play it safe and quit the soldering part of stained glass for the time being. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 22:45:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 21:32:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Henry Halem and Glass Notes Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 21:31:30 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.143130.0> Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk I e-mailed Mr. Halem to ask him a few questions the other day. He mentioned that he is also building a site that some of you might be interested in. It's a glass/business site that hosts your web site for a fee. You can get all the bells and whistles it looks like, e-commerce, business plans etc. and so on. Don't know who might be interested but thought I would pass along the info. It will cost ya but price isn't mentioned for everything as it's still in the development stage. It will be spendy though I'm assuming :) I am glad we have another glass resource place on the net, it helps. http://glassinfo.com/business In a past post Bob passed along Mr. Halem's hot glass web site that was very nice also. Pam -- ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 23:31:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 22:39:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ipa.net!gecko From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 00:38:24 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.193824.0> Precedence: bulk I hear ya Caren! You wouldn't catch me dead in that glass store after a display like that. It was stupid of him to insist you take his class to get the pattern, given the circumstances. Obviously, his business is so good he doesn't need your business. I'm sure it won't stay that way. My closest glass store is approx. an hour away. It's a pretty drive, so it really wasn't that bad... but I have now sworn them off. The first few times I was there, I got the impression that the owner of the shop just really disliked me. (I am not an animal!!! I'm a glass artist!) I'm a pretty easy going customer, and I have racked my brain trying to figure out what beef this lady has with me. I've spend hundreds of dollars there. But now I spend hundreds of dollars using mail order, since I've quit using her. I've also told other local glass people, when I happen upon them, what a rude place it is. I have even driven 3 hours to Oklahoma City just to buy glass. Why not!? I just make a day of it! At least there, I'll have a nice selection of glass, and friendly people to take my money. I think you should print your email, and mail it to his shop. I'd make sure he knows what kind of list it was posted on. And then I'd forget him! Well.. that's MY .02 anyway! Hope all's well for everyone in Bungi-land! Take care you guys. Blake :-) >Hi All, >An interesting story I think occured to me yesterday. I was visiting my >family on Long Island (NY). I live 5 hours away in Upstate NY and only >have access to one stained glass studio and supplier. Well my sister, >whose birthday is next week, just redid her dining room and kitchen. So >of course I decided that her beautiful full length windows need some >decorating. So we figured I would make her two 12 x 30" panels, one for >each window. >We went to a stained glass supplier that wasn't too far away so she could >pick out a pattern and the exact glass she wanted and I would buy it, >take it home upstate and make it. Well this store had some BEAUTIFUL >pieces on display ( I was literally drooling). And in the back by the >pattern books the owner had several patterns tacked to the walls. Well >my sister saw one that she absolutely loved, I loved it, my mother loved >it. Now all you business owners think about this and let me know your >opinion. I was going to buy enough glass to make those 2 panels 12 x30 >and probably more. I asked him if he would sell me a copy of the pattern >on the wall and he said NO. That these were patterns that he let his >students use and that if I wanted to use one I'd have to take his class. >I explained to him that I lived 5 hours away and that I've taken classes >and I would be happy to pay for a copy of it. He was so damn rude, >arrogant and obnoxious, he shrugged his shoulders said "I told you take >my class" and turned away. We walked out and I will never go back even >though his prices were very reasonable. I just didn't like his attitude. > I understand that people design their own patterns for personal use and >he actually had 3 different panels hanging in the showroom of that >pattern, and if I lived locally I could see he wanted to keep it to >himself....but I live 5 hours away and the pattern was drawn and a piece >of parchment paper and obviously used many times. He was so rude that if >he decided to give it to me now I'd probably tell him to shove it. >So the moral of the story is he lost a potential customer since my local >supplier is very small, this guy had probably 5 times the amount of stock >for glass, tools, foils, etc. and I go to Long Island about 5 or 6 times >a year to visit. My supplier is so wonderful he doesn't make us buy >books. If we see a pattern we like he says take it with you copy it and >bring the book back. He knows we will bring it back and then buy the >supplies to make it so the $9.95 for the book sale is irrelevant. I >assume that all you suppliers out there in Bungiland are more like my >supplier not that arrogant *#@* >please say its so! >So if anyone thinks I am wrong please tell me. >Caren > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 4 23:58:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 23:12:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Strip/Circle Cutters? Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 23:10:19 -0700 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990404231019.009c8100@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> References: <<1999Apr4.152435.0>> Precedence: bulk At 09:24 PM 4/4/99 -0600, you wrote: >Anyone know of any 'decent' Strip/Circle cutters available?? I've had an old >Inland for about 5 years and it's about had it...I ordered a Glastar strip >cutter and it's real piece of work.. All plastic, and its warped to >boot...I'll be seeing about sending it back... I use a strip cutter quite a >bit for diamond pattern doors and such.... > >Byron... >Wells Glassworks > I'm sold on Morton's portable glass shop for cutting strips and anything geometric. You're lucky you got 5 years out of your Inland strip/circle cutter. I had to take mine back the next day because the embedded nut pulled out immediately. Store readily exchanged it with, "This happens all the time." Hmmm... Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 00:26:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 23:34:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Hamsterdance for those who would like to ,,, Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 23:22:55 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.162255.0> Precedence: bulk http://www.newgrounds.com/assassin/hamster/index.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 00:41:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 23:42:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 01:44:28 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr4.204428.0> References: <<1999Apr5.193824.0>> Precedence: bulk > But now I spend hundreds of dollars using mail order, since I've quit using > her. I've also told other local glass people, when I happen upon them, what > a rude place it is. I have even driven 3 hours to Oklahoma City just to buy > glass. Why not!? I just make a day of it! At least there, I'll have a > nice selection of glass, and friendly people to take my money. > You never told *me* that before! Surely you havent done it lately? Next time take the road that goes northwest, instead of straight west... You'll come to a small city that is much prettier than OKC...and a very nice gal to go glassing with. She might even pop for a beer, or make you a margarita, if you play your cards right. T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 03:50:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 03:15:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 06:19:05 +0000 Message-ID: <199904051014.GAA19701@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk Back in July '96, Monona had this to say: I am a resource person on two national pregnancy hotlines. I advise women working with lead to know what their blood lead counts are before they even get a glint in their eye. We know that lead easily crosses the placental barrier. We also know that children with blood leads of 10 micrograms per deciliter (ug/dl) have somewhat reduced mental acuity. The fetus' brain and nervous system are probably even more sensitive to damage from lead. If a mother has a blood lead of 10 to 15 ug/dl, she can give birth to a fine healthy baby. But if she wants to give her child the very best start in life she can, she should try to keep her blood lead as low as she can manage. Monona > >>She is currently 4 months pregnant. Can anyone tell me if the > fumes from > soldering are in any way harmful to the baby? She is really > worried about it. > > I am wondering if it is well ventilated during the process, would it > really be a problem?<< > > I do not have a clear answer for this one and I doubt that you > will ever find one. The only real answer is to play it safe and quit > the soldering part of stained glass for the time being. Bob > > Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 > Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 04:03:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 03:15:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Las Vegas Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 06:19:04 +0000 Message-ID: <199904051014.GAA18484@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Bendiem (sp?), and they say they do not attend the show in Vegas, > they go to the one in Long Beach. They say there is a better turn > out. Oh, that's just politics. Years ago, before there even *was a new stained glass industry, the people who started the Las Vegas show (not the people running it now) had the IDEA for a show. There was no industry to speak of at the time, but their show CREATED (or helped create) the industry as it's now known. A few years later, AGSA was formed, started its own show, and encouraged loyalty to its show rather than to the previous show. That's what you've met with: loyalty to one show over another for political reasons (not to mention financial ones). Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 04:51:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 04:06:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass From: "K See" To: "Albert Lewis" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 07:04:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.3441.0> References: <<199904051014.GAA19701@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Organization: See Glass Precedence: bulk Where I took classes they have this statement "Pregnant women and nursing mothers should consult their physicians prior to enrolling in class" I think this says volumes K See "Art is the only way to run away without leaving home." Twyla Tharp ----- Original Message ----- From: Albert Lewis To: Sent: Monday, April 05, 1999 2:19 AM Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy | Back in July '96, Monona had this to say: | | I am a resource person on two national pregnancy hotlines. I advise | women working with lead to know what their blood lead counts are | before they even get a glint in their eye. | | We know that lead easily crosses the placental barrier. We also know | that children with blood leads of 10 micrograms per deciliter (ug/dl) | have somewhat reduced mental acuity. | | The fetus' brain and nervous system are probably even more sensitive | to damage from lead. If a mother has a blood lead of 10 to 15 ug/dl, | she can give birth to a fine healthy baby. But if she wants to give | her child the very best start in life she can, she should try to keep | her blood lead as low as she can manage. | | Monona | | | > >>She is currently 4 months pregnant. Can anyone tell me if the | > fumes from | > soldering are in any way harmful to the baby? She is really | > worried about it. | > | > I am wondering if it is well ventilated during the process, would it | > really be a problem?<< | > | > I do not have a clear answer for this one and I doubt that you | > will ever find one. The only real answer is to play it safe and quit | > the soldering part of stained glass for the time being. Bob | > | > Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 | > Think glass: have class. | ---- | For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com | To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com | Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass | ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 05:20:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 04:32:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr From: CncptThnkr@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 07:31:05 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr5.11315.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/5/99 6:55:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net writes: > Back in July '96, Monona had this to say: > > I am a resource person on two national pregnancy hotlines. I advise > women working with lead to know what their blood lead counts are > before they even get a glint in their eye. Thank you Albert for stating it so succinctly, I took my first stained glass class when I was almost 9 mos. pregnant. They would not let me solder or even watch the soldering, at the time I was irked, however now I realize they were correct. I didn't drink, watched what I ate and "followed" all the rules for a healthy baby, avoiding lead was also logical even though I did not realize it at the time. The "baby" is 19 now and more artistic than his mother can ever dream of being, but I can't get him interested in glass, his interest lies in making jewelry. Pat ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 06:23:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 05:33:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ezl.com!stepsue From: Sue Prullage To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: how not to gain business Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 07:16:58 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.11658.0> Precedence: bulk Caren, The owner was very stupid. He could have sold alot of glass and you probably would have paid for a copy of the pattern. But you will do him no favors if you don't tell him how he lost your business. He probably won't care, but he should know how much anry he made you. A letter is appropriate. There is a stained glass man in this area that is as equally rude. He does the local shows and I have tried to talk to him before and he just walks away from me. No wonder I never see him sell anything. He was semi nice until he found out I did glass and then he turned into a jerk. But of course his business is the one to suffer. Sue P ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 06:52:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 05:52:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: How not to gain my business Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 08:34:37 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.13437.0> Organization: SBWSA Precedence: bulk I couldn't/wouldn't do business with a store owner who treated me that way and I really wouldn't let him know how you feel about the way you were treated. He's his own worst enemy when it comes to doing business and pretty soon people will stop going to his shop. At least it happened that way here. We're only 2 l/2 years old and starting to thrive businesswise, thanks in many ways to people like the man you encountered. Customers come from 3-4 hours away, not only because we have what many consider to be a great artglass selection, but also because we're always willing to show someone what they might be doing wrong as far as soldering, cutting inside curves, etc. If there is a pattern that they see and isn't in one of our books because it was discontinued or is an original done by us, they are welcome to copy it on the spot by tracing it. Then "they buy glass" for it. Good business sense if I must say so myself. These people are repeat customers, coming at least once a month, and they can shop locally, but because of the attitude in their local stores, they chose to travel to us. Just my one cent's worth. Carol T ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 07:24:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 06:45:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: wt.net!sbross From: "Sarah Bross" To: "Bungi Glass List (E-mail)" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:39:09 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.3399.0> References: <<199904051014.GAA19701@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk In a similar discussion, Monona warned against grinding glass. (I hope she doesn't mind me paraphrasing as I can't find the original post). Basically she said that some pretty nasty stuff was used to color glass (I think arsenic was one of the nastys). She said that breathing in the dust from the grinder can be as much/more of a hazard than solder fumes. She also added that bringing a child into the world is absolutely the most artistic thing a woman can do. Isn't it great having someone this knowledgeable and caring available to answer our questions?!?! Thanks again Monona! Sarah -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis [mailto:alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net] Sent: Monday, April 05, 1999 1:19 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Back in July '96, Monona had this to say: I am a resource person on two national pregnancy hotlines. I advise women working with lead to know what their blood lead counts are before they even get a glint in their eye. We know that lead easily crosses the placental barrier. We also know that children with blood leads of 10 micrograms per deciliter (ug/dl) have somewhat reduced mental acuity. The fetus' brain and nervous system are probably even more sensitive to damage from lead. If a mother has a blood lead of 10 to 15 ug/dl, she can give birth to a fine healthy baby. But if she wants to give her child the very best start in life she can, she should try to keep her blood lead as low as she can manage. Monona > >>She is currently 4 months pregnant. Can anyone tell me if the > fumes from > soldering are in any way harmful to the baby? She is really > worried about it. > > I am wondering if it is well ventilated during the process, would it > really be a problem?<< > > I do not have a clear answer for this one and I doubt that you > will ever find one. The only real answer is to play it safe and quit > the soldering part of stained glass for the time being. Bob > > Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 > Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 07:38:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 06:21:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!103462.2164 From: Ray Nicholas <103462.2164@compuserve.com> To: Byron Wells Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Strip/Circle Cutters? Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:19:37 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.51937.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Byron Wells >Anyone know of any 'decent' Strip/Circle cutters available??< I have used the Morton System for ten years along with Mortons package for all shapes (straight edge,ruler guide, angle guides, etc) It is called the Morton Maxi surface, and the kit is called the Morton Portable Glass Shop. The straight edge is an aluminum bar which your gla= ss cutter follows for straight lines, whether they be angled or perpendicula= r. Hasn't failed yet. = Warmly, Ray Nicholas = Creator's Stained Glass Mfg. Cutter's Mate ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 07:53:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 06:49:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:48:49 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr5.134849.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/4/99 9:24:16 PM, mschatee@juno.com wrote: >My supplier is so wonderful he doesn't make us buy >books. If we see a pattern we like he says take it with you copy it and >bring the book back. He knows we will bring it back and then buy the >supplies to make it so the $9.95 for the book sale is irrelevant. On the other hand, the designer of the book loses out......... :-( Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 07:55:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 06:32:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:26:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.5268.0> Precedence: bulk I guess there are two ways to look at this scenario. The first being his point of view .....if this person makes their livelihood from teaching classes.Selling you a pattern in actuality is taking money out of his pocket. And imagine if ten people came in and did the same thing. Just think about yourself creating a work. You take your work to a show or hang it someplace visible to sell. Someone comes up to you and asks if you happen to have the pattern for that work......they want to make it themselves. Now remember you have designed and created this piece yourself. What would your reaction be? Now arrogance is another story....you don't have to be rude to be tactful. And he probably figured that you lived five hours away and weren't coming back for supplies. Or he had a bad day. Always give people the benefit of the doubt. If you happen to stop in again and he acts the same towards you then he is just a bad attitude in the wrong business. The second being your point of view.........which really doesn't matter because you already stated that your not going back there. My other thought is...why couldn't you go home a design the window yourself. You know what it looks like all you have to do is reproduce it to the correct size you need. Take his design and make it better. my best, pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: mschatee@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 10:36 PM Subject: How not to gain my business 101 >Hi All, >An interesting story I think occured to me yesterday. I was visiting my >family on Long Island (NY). I live 5 hours away in Upstate NY and only >have access to one stained glass studio and supplier. Well my sister, >whose birthday is next week, just redid her dining room and kitchen. So >of course I decided that her beautiful full length windows need some >decorating. So we figured I would make her two 12 x 30" panels, one for >each window. >We went to a stained glass supplier that wasn't too far away so she could >pick out a pattern and the exact glass she wanted and I would buy it, >take it home upstate and make it. Well this store had some BEAUTIFUL >pieces on display ( I was literally drooling). And in the back by the >pattern books the owner had several patterns tacked to the walls. Well >my sister saw one that she absolutely loved, I loved it, my mother loved >it. Now all you business owners think about this and let me know your >opinion. I was going to buy enough glass to make those 2 panels 12 x30 >and probably more. I asked him if he would sell me a copy of the pattern >on the wall and he said NO. That these were patterns that he let his >students use and that if I wanted to use one I'd have to take his class. >I explained to him that I lived 5 hours away and that I've taken classes >and I would be happy to pay for a copy of it. He was so damn rude, >arrogant and obnoxious, he shrugged his shoulders said "I told you take >my class" and turned away. We walked out and I will never go back even >though his prices were very reasonable. I just didn't like his attitude. > I understand that people design their own patterns for personal use and >he actually had 3 different panels hanging in the showroom of that >pattern, and if I lived locally I could see he wanted to keep it to >himself....but I live 5 hours away and the pattern was drawn and a piece >of parchment paper and obviously used many times. He was so rude that if >he decided to give it to me now I'd probably tell him to shove it. >So the moral of the story is he lost a potential customer since my local >supplier is very small, this guy had probably 5 times the amount of stock >for glass, tools, foils, etc. and I go to Long Island about 5 or 6 times >a year to visit. My supplier is so wonderful he doesn't make us buy >books. If we see a pattern we like he says take it with you copy it and >bring the book back. He knows we will bring it back and then buy the >supplies to make it so the $9.95 for the book sale is irrelevant. I >assume that all you suppliers out there in Bungiland are more like my >supplier not that arrogant *#@* >please say its so! >So if anyone thinks I am wrong please tell me. >Caren > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 08:06:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 06:56:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:55:01 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr5.13551.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/4/99 9:27:21 PM, mschut@nbnet.nb.ca wrote: >She is currently 4 months pregnant. Can anyone tell me if the fumes from >soldering are in any way harmful to the baby? She is really worried about >it. > >I am wondering if it is well ventilated during the process, would it really >be a problem? If I were in her shoes, I wouldn't take any chances. I'd stick with cutting, grinding and foiling and let you do the soldering *when she's not around.* it doesn't take much heavy metal to do nasty things (like mental retardation, various tremor disorders and so-called "behavioral" things) to a nervous-system-in-the-making. I'm sure Monona will agree! Monona, are you lurking? Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 08:27:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 07:34:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tir.com!jazzykid From: "jazzykid" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Garden Stakes Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:27:48 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.32748.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all, I hope everyone had a nice holiday. The catalogs are out and my relatives, are interested in the stained glass butterflies. Does anyone know if they are using brazing rods for the stake? Has anyone made these and do you have any helpful hints? Thanks Jill Medlyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 08:43:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 07:41:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ibm.net!croch From: croch@ibm.net To: "Glass" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bigger Windows Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 07:46:08 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.0468.0> Precedence: bulk Hi I am about to embark on a major (for me) project for the home remodel we are doing. We want three tall narrow stained glass windows in one long wall. Either of these dimensions for each window will fit the space we're looking at... 60"x18" or 60"x15" My question is: Is there a geometric or "rule-of-thumb" for dimensions that are more appealing to the eye? or for construction strength? Know what I'm asking? Thanks for all your help in advance. I love reading all the responses to questions posed each day. Namaste' Carol ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 08:55:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 07:54:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: soltec.net!tamis From: "Tami Siddens" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Business sense Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:51:43 -0000 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.85143.0> Precedence: bulk Carol T, good for you. You definitely have the gift for business. What excellent customer services you provide. People buy from people they like! Tami ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 09:12:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:17:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: copying patterns Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:24:23 +0000 Message-ID: <199904051516.LAA22819@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk Not to mention that it's a violation of copyright and against the law. Think of it this way: you put together 30 designs you're really proud of. A publisher offers to publish them as a book, paying you 10% of the retail price for each copy of the book sold. But the retailers buy only one copy of the book each and allow their customers to make copies of the entire book or selected patterns. How would you feel about that? Ripped off? Maybe yes. You have invested time, energy and talent in the patterns. The publisher has invested cold, hard cash. Both of you have been robbed by a "wonderful supplier." Not so wonderful by my lights. Albert > >My supplier is so wonderful he doesn't make us buy > >books. If we see a pattern we like he says take it with you copy > >it and bring the book back. He knows we will bring it back and > >then buy the supplies to make it so the $9.95 for the book sale is > >irrelevant. > > On the other hand, the designer of the book loses out......... :-( > > > Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 09:59:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:16:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Cost per sq foot, or item? Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:04:44 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.2444.0> Precedence: bulk Good Morning Everyone, I took the Angel Eternity Bridge panel to church yesterday to show one of my friends. She is a great artist in oils, and does angels and forest scenes and stuff like that. Well some people wanted to buy the panel, were not happy when they could not, because it was Mom's birthday gift. Kept asking what the price would be to make one for them. I do not know what a honest price would be for the panel. One friend said that in Colorado, she worked for a company that charged $100.00 per square foot of finished panel. This would put the panel in the $150.00 to $175.00 range. She also said that since I had used iridescence glass on the angel, that it would drive the price higher. How do you figure the selling price for a panel or 3-d object? Also, the bookstore manager asked about making some angels for the store to sell on consignment, ones 5 to 7 inches high and ones about 8 to 12 inches high. Does anyone know what the selling price might be on items these sizes? Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 10:29:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:31:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: re: stained glass during pregnancy Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 09:09:31 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.2931.0> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk you know, I have been "hoping" to have another child (not likely at my age) but I think I have just found the silver lining to the black cloud...it seems just about "everything" I do for relaxation will be off limits...no horses, no skiing, no glass....guess I can sit around and knit booties or something if I ever get so lucky...oh well. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 11:01:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:02:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr From: CncptThnkr@aol.com To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: copying patterns and retailers who offend customers Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:00:20 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr5.17020.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/5/99 12:41:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net writes: > Not to mention that it's a violation of copyright and against the law. Once again Albert has pointed out the exact same thing I wanted to mention. It is sad when retailers who have to know better allow designers and publishers to be robbed of their rightful profits. I know everyone does not share my moral code, but everyone should follow the applicable laws. Speaking of morals, the retailer I used to deal with had his employees sort the trash baskets after classes to sort out all the scrap big enough to sell, just think of the possibilities, he could sell scrap from glass a student paid for to another student and when the scrap from that student hit the trash sell it again!!! It would have been nice for the instructors to mention to the students the benefits of saving scrap glass. This was before the recent upswing in the popularity of mosaic but in my mind scrap glass has always been worth saving. Basically, what he accomplished was making me realize I'd rather drive 45 minutes to deal with someone I like over 5 minutes to shop with him. Pat ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 11:26:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:23:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY From: JJKIRBY@aol.com To: artglass@waterw.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:21:02 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr5.17212.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/5/99 7:56:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, artglass@waterw.com writes: << The first being his point of view .....if this person makes their livelihood from teaching classes.Selling you a pattern in actuality is taking money out of his pocket. >> Let me get this straight? Selling a pattern, that the retailer gives away in a class is taking money out his pocket. If the retailer owns the pattern, his incremental cost to sell a copy is 0, so to sell a copy is pure profit to the retailer. His development cost for the pattern has already been recovered (or at least accounted for) by the revenues from the class. Consider also the corollory revenue associated with the sale.. a couple hundred in supplies. I don't get how this is a good business decision. If the decision was an artistic decision, i.e. protecting the uniqueness of a given piece of work, that is a different matter... but the post didn't indicate that. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 11:32:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:38:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: selune.demon.co.uk!jc From: jerry cullingford To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text Subject: Re: Cost per sq foot, or item? Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:38:43 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <199904051838.SAA00472@selune.demon.co.uk> References: <<1999Apr5.2444.0>> Precedence: bulk > > How do you figure the selling price for a panel or 3-d object? > Professionals can probably give a better answer, but here's how I'd do it.., First, work out how much the materials you'd use cost. That gives you an absolute minimum. Then, add on anything for power/wear on grinders, bits or whatever, to get a more realistic minimum. Then, figure out how long it actually takes you to make - including setup and tidying up. Now, decide how much you want to get paid per hour (if you'd like to make the same thing again) or how much you'd want per hour _not_ to do something else you'd rather do :-) multiply that by the time, and add that on to get a personal minimum that you would be happy with - then compare that with market prices to see if you could charge more and still be competitive. If you're coming out cheaper than market prices, you may also want to consider that some people do this for a living - which means that they need to set prices high enough to pay the bills, which opens up the can of worms about amateur/professional prices :-) -Jerry ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 11:54:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:49:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: jazzykid Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Garden Stakes Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 12:50:43 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.75043.0> References: <<1999Apr5.32748.0>> Precedence: bulk jazzykid wrote: > > Hi all, > > I hope everyone had a nice holiday. The catalogs are out and my relatives, > are interested in the stained glass butterflies. Does anyone know if they > are using brazing rods for the stake? Has anyone made these and do you have > any helpful hints? > > Thanks > Jill Medlyn > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass Jill, I dont know what catalog you are speaking of, or what butterflies, but I have made some, and I used braising rods. I used black patina. They were used for floral arrangements. The braising rod disapears in the arrangement, so it just looks like a stained glass butterfly flying through. My gift shop guys loved them. 4 peices of glass, 2 antennae, attach, and I sold them for $12 each wholesale. T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 12:02:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:05:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "bungi group" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:59:58 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.95958.0> Precedence: bulk >Let me get this straight? Selling a pattern, that the retailer gives away in >a class is taking money out his pocket.>> Thats pretty simple......he makes x number of dollars on classes and more on supplies for those classes and builds up a relationship with his students. As opposed to selling this pattern one time to a person he will never see again. If the person who buys the pattern decides they want to sell the work they have create.....in reality yes it has taken money out of his pocket. This supplier also had these panels in his store for sale. And the person who wanted to buy the pattern wasn't going to purchase supplies from this retailer. > >If the retailer owns the pattern, his incremental cost to sell a copy is 0, >so to sell a copy is pure profit to the retailer. > >His development cost for the pattern has already been recovered (or at least >accounted for) by the revenues from the class. How can you know this? It takes time and materials to copy a pattern. And in this business time is money. > >Consider also the corollory revenue associated with the sale.. a couple >hundred in supplies. I didn't know how much her supplies were going to run for the work. >I don't get how this is a good business decision. No one said it was a good business decision. But it is his right to do with his pattern whatever he wants. > >If the decision was an artistic decision, i.e. protecting the uniqueness of a >given piece of work, that is a different matter... but the post didn't >indicate that. No it didn't. I don't agree with what this supplier did.....but it is his decision to do what he wants within his business. pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 12:27:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:24:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!billy8986 From: To: glass@bungi.com Subject: re your web site Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 07:43:25 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Email removal 800-771-2003, Monday thru Friday 8-5 Pacific Time IMMEDIATELY INCREASE YOUR SITES EXPOSURE We'll Submit Your Web Site To Over 900 Search Engines, Directories, & Indices For A Cost Of Only $ 14.95 (*) 100% Money Back Guarantee READ THIS TESTIMONIAL We have been a subscriber to a service that analyzes the "hits" to our web site. 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Minimum 12 month term required. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 12:36:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:33:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'CncptThnkr@aol.com'" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: copying patterns and retailers who offend customers Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:34:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.103453.0> Precedence: bulk Similar situation....Local shop owner had a nicely done gumball machine on display. I asked it I could buy the pattern. She said it was out of print and would not let me use her personal copy of the pattern book. I was disappointed but I had to respect her and I knew that I would like doing business with her because she would be just as fair and honorable in her dealing with me and mine. Linda -----Original Message----- From: CncptThnkr@aol.com [SMTP:CncptThnkr@aol.com] Sent: Monday, April 05, 1999 1:00 PM To: Glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: copying patterns and retailers who offend customers In a message dated 4/5/99 12:41:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net writes: > Not to mention that it's a violation of copyright and against the law. Once again Albert has pointed out the exact same thing I wanted to mention. It is sad when retailers who have to know better allow designers and publishers to be robbed of their rightful profits. I know everyone does not share my moral code, but everyone should follow the applicable laws. Speaking of morals, the retailer I used to deal with had his employees sort the trash baskets after classes to sort out all the scrap big enough to sell, just think of the possibilities, he could sell scrap from glass a student paid for to another student and when the scrap from that student hit the trash sell it again!!! It would have been nice for the instructors to mention to the students the benefits of saving scrap glass. This was before the recent upswing in the popularity of mosaic but in my mind scrap glass has always been worth saving. Basically, what he accomplished was making me realize I'd rather drive 45 minutes to deal with someone I like over 5 minutes to shop with him. Pat ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 12:56:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:41:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: mschut Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:39:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.103928.0> Precedence: bulk I would skip the stained glass hobby while pregnant or nursing the baby..= .. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 13:07:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:03:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Bigger Windows Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 12:00:14 -0700 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990405120014.0091b430@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> References: <<1999Apr5.0468.0>> Precedence: bulk At 07:46 AM 4/5/99 -0700, you wrote: >Hi I am about to embark on a major (for me) project for the home remodel we >are doing. >We want three tall narrow stained glass windows in one long wall. >Either of these dimensions for each window will fit the space we're looking >at... 60"x18" or 60"x15" >My question is: > Is there a geometric or "rule-of-thumb" for dimensions that are more >appealing to the eye? or for construction strength? >Know what I'm asking? >Thanks for all your help in advance. I love reading all the responses to >questions posed each day. >Namaste' Carol Ancient Greeks liked to use the Golden Rectangle in architecture. They thought it had "perfect" proportional. It had some interesting mathematical properties, too. Whatever the case, in a Golden Rectangle the ratio of short to long sides is about 0.618. Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 13:14:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:42:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:mschatee@juno.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:39:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.103931.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:mschatee@juno.com >I asked him if he would sell me a copy of the pattern on the wall and he said NO.< Are patterns are original with copyright Greer Studios and because we do mostly one-of-a- kind commission work, our patterns are not for sale either.... they may b= e plastered over every square inch of my studio walls, and customers do see them.... but, they a= re not for sale for private use. I would tell a potential customer the above, and if they ha= d a problem with it, = gladly refer them to another stained glass studio that might be more accomodating.... someone who sold canned patterns and pattern books and made that part of their business. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 13:33:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:44:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Albert Lewis" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Las Vegas Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:39:37 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.103937.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Albert Lewis" > Oh, that's just politics. Years ago, before there even *was a new = stained glass industry, the people who started the Las Vegas show = (not the people running it now) had the IDEA for a show. There was = no industry to speak of at the time, but their show CREATED (or = helped create) the industry as it's now known. A few years later, AGSA was formed, started its own show, and = encouraged loyalty to its show rather than to the previous show. = That's what you've met with: loyalty to one show over another for = political reasons (not to mention financial ones). = < I love it.... Albert know all the good dirt! Give us more!! Best, Dani = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 13:33:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:07:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: nettally.com!sford From: sford@nettally.com (Steven Ford) To: GLASS@BUNGI.COM Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 15:02:38 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.11238.0> Precedence: bulk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 13:38:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:10:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re;copying patterns Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:10:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.111028.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all, Copyright laws are not exactly something I know anything about so.... When you see,lets say, a small picture of a half moon on a greeting card and you enlarge it ,then incorporate it into a design with other objects you have drawn and or copied in the same manner[ now the question...]Do you consider this " glass plagiarism? If you use any or part of another persons work[direct copies], copyright laws apply ,correct? What if you draw them from another's designs? Thanks for input ,Abbie in Va. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 13:50:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:45:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "Dani Greer" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:39:13 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.103913.0> Precedence: bulk Amen! Message text written by "pj friend" >Take his design and make it better. < Even better.... create your own design and make it better than his.... Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 13:57:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:15:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re;pricing Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:16:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.11164.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Bud asgitp@earthlink.net might be helpful in your pricing of objects if no one has posted this yet...take care, Abbie in Va. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 13:57:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Shirley's List" , "Bungi" Subject: Hang it Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:48:15 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.44815.0> Precedence: bulk Idea! Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. -----Original Message----- From: MikeFirth Newsgroups: rec.crafts.glass Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 9:41 PM Subject: Project in any kind of glass > Recently, there appeared in (another department of) our hardware store, a >pottery vase about 4" tall and 1.5" inches in diameter with an indentation in >the >back into which a magnet had been glued. Not far away, the same sized magnet >appeared on a peg (2 pieces for $1.99, 3/8" x 7/8" x 1 7/8" ceramic block >magnet, >part # 07044 from The Magnet Source, Castle Rock, Colorado 80104) > This product seems to yell out for use with glass, hot or cold. Silicone >adhesive >would hold it in place. Torch or furnace workers and kiln workers would have >to >make a wooden or metal block the shape of the magnet to form the indentation as > >too much heat destroys magnetic qualities, but stained glass workers would have > >merely to allow for the place for the magnet in their design and consider >whether >they would have to put a liquid tight tube inside if it were to hold flowers. > > Holding the glass in 3-D away from the surface of a refrigerator would allow >light >to pass through the glass in a most interesting way. This strong a magnet >might >also back a hook shaped glass support from which a glass shape might hang >and swing decoratively. > > Mike Firth, Hot Glass Bits furnace glassblowing newsletter > MikeFirth@compuserve.com Firthgm@concentric.net MikeFirth@AOL.com > Home Page: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MikeFirth > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 14:10:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:10:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: jazzykid Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Garden Stakes Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 16:09:58 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.12958.0> References: <<1999Apr5.32748.0>> Precedence: bulk jazzykid wrote: > > Hi all, > > I hope everyone had a nice holiday. The catalogs are out and my relatives, > are interested in the stained glass butterflies. Does anyone know if they > are using brazing rods for the stake? Has anyone made these and do you have > any helpful hints? > > Thanks > Jill Medlyn > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass yep, tinned brazing rods. brass rods would be the smartest to use. stiff enough so that they don't flop around. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 14:28:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:10:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 16:07:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.12714.0> References: <<1999Apr5.5268.0>> Precedence: bulk pj friend wrote: > > I guess there are two ways to look at this scenario. > The first being his point of view .....if this person makes their livelihood > from teaching classes.Selling you a pattern in actuality is taking money out > of his pocket. And imagine if ten people came in and did the same thing. > Just think about yourself creating a work. You take your work to a show > or hang it someplace visible to sell. Someone comes up to you and asks if > you happen to have the pattern for that work......they want to make it > themselves. Now remember you have designed and created this piece yourself. > What would your reaction be? > > Now arrogance is another story....you don't have to be rude to be tactful. > And he probably figured that you lived five hours away and weren't coming > back for supplies. Or he had a bad day. Always give people the benefit of > the doubt. If you happen to stop in again and he acts the same towards you > then he is just a bad attitude in the wrong business. > > The second being your point of view.........which really doesn't matter > because you already stated that your not going back there. > > My other thought is...why couldn't you go home a design the window yourself. > You know what it looks like all you have to do is reproduce it to the > correct size you need. Take his design and make it better. > > my best, > pj > > Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. > www.waterw.com/~artglass > Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America > Member International Guild of Glass Artists > -----Original Message----- > From: mschatee@juno.com > To: glass@bungi.com > Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 10:36 PM > Subject: How not to gain my business 101 > > >Hi All, > >An interesting story I think occured to me yesterday. I was visiting my > >family on Long Island (NY). I live 5 hours away in Upstate NY and only > >have access to one stained glass studio and supplier. Well my sister, > >whose birthday is next week, just redid her dining room and kitchen. So > >of course I decided that her beautiful full length windows need some > >decorating. So we figured I would make her two 12 x 30" panels, one for > >each window. > >We went to a stained glass supplier that wasn't too far away so she could > >pick out a pattern and the exact glass she wanted and I would buy it, > >take it home upstate and make it. Well this store had some BEAUTIFUL > >pieces on display ( I was literally drooling). And in the back by the > >pattern books the owner had several patterns tacked to the walls. Well > >my sister saw one that she absolutely loved, I loved it, my mother loved > >it. Now all you business owners think about this and let me know your > >opinion. I was going to buy enough glass to make those 2 panels 12 x30 > >and probably more. I asked him if he would sell me a copy of the pattern > >on the wall and he said NO. That these were patterns that he let his > >students use and that if I wanted to use one I'd have to take his class. > >I explained to him that I lived 5 hours away and that I've taken classes > >and I would be happy to pay for a copy of it. He was so damn rude, > >arrogant and obnoxious, he shrugged his shoulders said "I told you take > >my class" and turned away. We walked out and I will never go back even > >though his prices were very reasonable. I just didn't like his attitude. > > I understand that people design their own patterns for personal use and > >he actually had 3 different panels hanging in the showroom of that > >pattern, and if I lived locally I could see he wanted to keep it to > >himself....but I live 5 hours away and the pattern was drawn and a piece > >of parchment paper and obviously used many times. He was so rude that if > >he decided to give it to me now I'd probably tell him to shove it. > >So the moral of the story is he lost a potential customer since my local > >supplier is very small, this guy had probably 5 times the amount of stock > >for glass, tools, foils, etc. and I go to Long Island about 5 or 6 times > >a year to visit. My supplier is so wonderful he doesn't make us buy > >books. If we see a pattern we like he says take it with you copy it and > >bring the book back. He knows we will bring it back and then buy the > >supplies to make it so the $9.95 for the book sale is irrelevant. I > >assume that all you suppliers out there in Bungiland are more like my > >supplier not that arrogant *#@* > >please say its so! > >So if anyone thinks I am wrong please tell me. > >Caren > > > >___________________________________________________________________ > >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > >---- i guess my reaction would be not to give them the pattern. but i'd tell them why, i'd say that i want to keep my work original. at least that's what i say when people want to buy my patterns of the stuff i have online. to keep something original you have to keep the design. however this guy was simply a yutz. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 14:43:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:41:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Local suppliers Re: Hi Caren...similar experience..... Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 16:39:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.123959.0> References: <<1999Apr4.184847.0>> Precedence: bulk On the other hand, I have my choice of local suppliers. The nearest one, where I took lessons all those years ago, is great about answering questions, finding stuff for me, ordering glass, whatever. If she sees something she thinks we'll be interested in, she shows us. If she thinks what we think we want is cr**, she'll tell us why. She gives us a discount after all these years, too. We spend a lot there, although we certainly don't shop exclusively there. (Now I have to sepnd some time trying to get the numbers on my taxes come up consistently the same...well, Schedule A is done!) Dorothy Evelyn C Mason wrote: > I had the same experience when I started out 2 yrs ago....The little shop I > went to for information was more interested in selling me something instead > of answering my questions on supplies and tools etc. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 15:16:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:11:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: mschut Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:25:01 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.11251.0> References: <<3.0.1.16.19990404194828.273fd7de@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>> Precedence: bulk The primary element in deciding what to do is to pay attention to health warnings. Go see your doctor for advice. My advice is to stay away from the glass working studio until feeding is completed. Steve In message <3.0.1.16.19990404194828.273fd7de@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>, mschut writes >My wife has just recently taken up the fine art of stained glass after >watching me do it for the past nine years. > >She is currently 4 months pregnant. Can anyone tell me if the fumes from >soldering are in any way harmful to the baby? She is really worried about >it. > >I am wondering if it is well ventilated during the process, would it really >be a problem? > >This is a great forum for getting answers to many questions I have had over >the years. > >Thanks in advance to anyone who responds. >Mike, Pam, Jonathan & Kayla Schut >Moncton, New Brunswick >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 15:31:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:17:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: "Evelyn C Mason" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Re;copying patterns Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:15:06 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.7156.0> Precedence: bulk I think the example you give is in that gray area where I would have a difficult time deciding. Direct copying of a design is wrong without the permission of the designer (and against the law too). Incorporating an idea you saw somewhere else into an original design of your own is OK. In fact I do not think there are very many people in the world who can say they truly design in a vacuum without incorporating ideas they have seen elsewhere. I would have to say that enlarging the image and copying it directly is a violation of copyright law even if you combine it with other items. However, re-drawing the general image from memory and altering it to some degree probably is not. So why not work on your design and drawing skills by redrawing the moon image and see if you can improve it a bit? Then as you add the other design elements you will be more comfortable adjusting the design even more for a unified image. With some practice I think you will find you end up with a better and more personal design this way and you won't have any worries about plagiarism. -----Original Message----- From: Evelyn C Mason To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 2:45 PM Subject: Re;copying patterns >Hi all, Copyright laws are not exactly something I know anything about >so.... When you see,lets say, a small picture of a half moon on a greeting >card and you enlarge it ,then incorporate it into a design with other >objects you have drawn and or copied in the same manner[ now the >question...]Do you consider this " glass plagiarism? If you use any or part >of another persons work[direct copies], copyright laws apply ,correct? What >if you draw them from another's designs? Thanks for input ,Abbie in Va. > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 15:38:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:23:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!ellenid From: Elleni Drafts To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: copying patterns Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:23:39 -0400 Message-ID: References: <<199904051516.LAA22819@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk >Think of it this way: you put together 30 designs you're really proud >of. A publisher offers to publish them as a book, paying you 10% of >the retail price for each copy of the book sold. Do the designers really only get 10% of the price for their work?? That's terrible. Elleni ellenid@earthlink.net South Carolina - Smiling Faces - Beautiful Places ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 15:46:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:57:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: copying patterns Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:03:18 +0000 Message-ID: <199904052055.QAA27333@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > When you see,lets say, a small picture of a half moon > on a greeting card and you enlarge it ,then incorporate it into a > design with other objects you have drawn and or copied in the same > manner[ now the question...]Do you consider this " glass plagiarism? If the half moon inspired you to draw a half moon and incorporate that into your own design, no ... that's not copyright infringement. If you take the entire design and make it bigger or smaller or in a different ratio, but it's still the same design ... that is an infringement. > If you use any or part of another persons work[direct copies], > copyright laws apply ,correct? What if you draw them from another's > designs? Any part? No. Part? Maybe. A large part? Yes. Even if you redraw them from another's design. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 15:54:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:56:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: copyrights Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:03:18 +0000 Message-ID: <199904052055.QAA27334@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > [Our] patterns are original with copyright Greer Studios In any case, the "Copyright (c) Greer Studios" isn't necessary for the patterns (any patterns) to be copyrighted. Under present law, the notation affixed to the work is no longer necessary. Still, it's a good idea to attach it to work, as well as to register the copyrights ($20 per pattern and the Library of Congress forms to LofC), since without the registration no monetary damages can be collected. Oh, you can get infringers to *stop infringing, but you can't collect any money. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 16:02:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:57:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:54:52 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.65452.0> Precedence: bulk There is never an excuse for being rude in business. This person definitely failed in providing good service here. I understand that sometimes one needs to make rules about what one will sell and how. As both a gallery owner and running a stained glass studio I have had some pretty strange business propositions put to me. (Not to say yours was strange - it sounds reasonable to me). But even when I need to refuse a request, I still patiently tell the person why and see if we can work out something different. I never do understand how these people stay in business. One of the Vancouver glass suppliers tends to be rude and give poor service. I too will drive extra hours or order mail order just to avoid dealing with them. -----Original Message----- From: mschatee@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 8:30 PM Subject: How not to gain my business 101 >Hi All, >An interesting story I think occured to me yesterday. I was visiting my >family on Long Island (NY). I live 5 hours away in Upstate NY and only >have access to one stained glass studio and supplier. Well my sister, >whose birthday is next week, just redid her dining room and kitchen. So >of course I decided that her beautiful full length windows need some >decorating. So we figured I would make her two 12 x 30" panels, one for >each window. >We went to a stained glass supplier that wasn't too far away so she could >pick out a pattern and the exact glass she wanted and I would buy it, >take it home upstate and make it. Well this store had some BEAUTIFUL >pieces on display ( I was literally drooling). And in the back by the >pattern books the owner had several patterns tacked to the walls. Well >my sister saw one that she absolutely loved, I loved it, my mother loved >it. Now all you business owners think about this and let me know your >opinion. I was going to buy enough glass to make those 2 panels 12 x30 >and probably more. I asked him if he would sell me a copy of the pattern >on the wall and he said NO. That these were patterns that he let his >students use and that if I wanted to use one I'd have to take his class. >I explained to him that I lived 5 hours away and that I've taken classes >and I would be happy to pay for a copy of it. He was so damn rude, >arrogant and obnoxious, he shrugged his shoulders said "I told you take >my class" and turned away. We walked out and I will never go back even >though his prices were very reasonable. I just didn't like his attitude. > I understand that people design their own patterns for personal use and >he actually had 3 different panels hanging in the showroom of that >pattern, and if I lived locally I could see he wanted to keep it to >himself....but I live 5 hours away and the pattern was drawn and a piece >of parchment paper and obviously used many times. He was so rude that if >he decided to give it to me now I'd probably tell him to shove it. >So the moral of the story is he lost a potential customer since my local >supplier is very small, this guy had probably 5 times the amount of stock >for glass, tools, foils, etc. and I go to Long Island about 5 or 6 times >a year to visit. My supplier is so wonderful he doesn't make us buy >books. If we see a pattern we like he says take it with you copy it and >bring the book back. He knows we will bring it back and then buy the >supplies to make it so the $9.95 for the book sale is irrelevant. I >assume that all you suppliers out there in Bungiland are more like my >supplier not that arrogant *#@* >please say its so! >So if anyone thinks I am wrong please tell me. >Caren > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 16:07:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:58:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cyberbeach.net!dayle From: Dayle To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------36FB6E570BD90505899ED60F" Subject: Re: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 16:57:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.125712.0> References: <<1999Apr5.5268.0>> Organization: Celestial Luminosities Precedence: bulk --------------36FB6E570BD90505899ED60F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit pj friend wrote: > I guess there are two ways to look at this scenario. > The first being his point of view .....if this person makes their livelihood > from teaching classes.Selling you a pattern in actuality is taking money out > of his pocket. And imagine if ten people came in and did the same thing. > Just think about yourself creating a work. I agree with this but since it was a pattern created for use by students, if she was willing to buy the pattern.....why not sell it to her? > You take your work to a show > or hang it someplace visible to sell. Someone comes up to you and asks if > you happen to have the pattern for that work......they want to make it > themselves. Now remember you have designed and created this piece yourself. > What would your reaction be? Ooooooooh, I'd be upset! (and it has happened......something you have to get used to in this business though.) I had one shop owner (that I sold wholesale to) who had a friend of hers recreate several of my original gift items for resale in her store. What upset me the most was that the technique was horrible!!!! and I was very concerned that her clientele would assume it was my work! She was also selling them at the same price even though the materials used were much cheaper. After confronting her about it she just said her friend charged her less so she made more money on her stuff. Needless to say, we no longer do business with one another. Is it fair to say that most people want something for nothing? > Now arrogance is another story....you don't have to be rude to be tactful. > And he probably figured that you lived five hours away and weren't coming > back for supplies. Or he had a bad day. Always give people the benefit of > the doubt. If you happen to stop in again and he acts the same towards you > then he is just a bad attitude in the wrong business. There is never any excuse to be rude! If she was insisting on having the pattern as a freebie and not taking "no" for an answer then I could see why patience could run thin....but if she was willing to pay for it, buy the glass supplies to make it and lived 5 hours away....then what's the problem? > The second being your point of view.........which really doesn't matter > because you already stated that your not going back there. If it's really upsetting her then perhaps she should convey to him how she views her shopping experience. > My other thought is...why couldn't you go home a design the window yourself. > You know what it looks like all you have to do is reproduce it to the > correct size you need. Take his design and make it better. > > my best, > pj Exactly......the pattern most likely had to be resized anyway. Redesign it's theme from memory thereby making it different, more unique and she'd feel much more satisfied upon completion. Just my 2 cents. > > My supplier is so wonderful he doesn't make us buy > >books. If we see a pattern we like he says take it with you copy it and > >bring the book back. He knows we will bring it back and then buy the > >supplies to make it so the $9.95 for the book sale is irrelevant. I definitely don't agree with this. He's supposed to be selling these pattern books in good faith having acquired them from a distributor. How would you feel if it was your pattern book?Dayle --------------36FB6E570BD90505899ED60F Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

pj friend wrote:

I guess there are two ways to look at this scenario.
The first being his point of view .....if this person makes their livelihood
from teaching classes.Selling you a pattern in actuality is taking money out
of his pocket.  And imagine if ten people came in and did the same thing.
Just think about yourself creating a work.
I agree with this but since it was a pattern created for use by students, if she was willing to buy the pattern.....why not sell it to her?
You  take your work  to a show
or hang it someplace visible to sell.  Someone comes up to you and asks if
you happen to have the pattern for that work......they want to make it
themselves. Now remember you have designed and created this piece yourself.
What would your reaction be?
Ooooooooh, I'd be upset!  (and it has happened......something you have to get used to in this business though.)  I had one shop owner  (that I sold wholesale to) who had a friend of hers recreate several of my original gift items for resale in her store.  What upset me the most was that the technique was horrible!!!! and I was very concerned that her clientele would assume it was my work!  She was also selling them at the same price even though the materials used were much cheaper.  After confronting her about it she just said her friend charged her less so she made more money on her stuff.  Needless to say, we no longer do business with one another.  Is it fair to say that most people want something for nothing?
Now arrogance is another story....you don't have to be rude to be tactful.
And he probably figured that you lived five hours away and weren't coming
back for supplies. Or he had a bad day.  Always give people the benefit of
the doubt.  If you happen to stop in again and he acts the same towards you
then he is just a bad attitude in the wrong business.
There is never any excuse to be rude!  If she was insisting on having the pattern as a freebie and not taking "no" for an answer then I could see why patience could run thin....but if she was willing to pay for it, buy the glass supplies to make it and lived 5 hours away....then what's the problem?
The second being your point of view.........which really doesn't matter
because you already stated that your not going back there.
If it's really upsetting her then perhaps she should convey to him how she views her shopping experience.
My other thought is...why couldn't you go home a design the window yourself.
You know what it looks like all you have to do is reproduce it to the
correct size you need. Take his design and make it better.

my best,
pj

Exactly......the pattern most likely had to be resized anyway.  Redesign it's theme from memory thereby making it different, more unique and she'd feel much more satisfied upon completion.  Just my 2 cents.
>  My supplier is so wonderful he doesn't make us buy
>books.  If we see a pattern we like he says take it with you copy it and
>bring the book back.  He knows we will bring it back and then buy the
>supplies to make it so the $9.95 for the book sale is irrelevant.
I definitely don't agree with this.  He's supposed to be selling these pattern books in good faith having acquired them from a distributor.  How would you feel if it was your pattern book?Dayle
  --------------36FB6E570BD90505899ED60F-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 16:09:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:58:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: How not to get business... Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:54:59 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <199904052057.PAA15098@relay.acns.nwu.edu> Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk I think the point here is not so much whether one sells a pattern or not, but how he/she goes about it. I would respect anyone's refusal (with "faulty" reasoning, or even with no explanation) as long as the person was at least moderately pleasant. What I have trouble understanding is why anyone in business would be blatantly rude to a customer. Kaye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 16:29:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:41:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Hang it Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:35:25 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.73525.0> Precedence: bulk The design possibilities of these strong magnets are endless! I suspect from the description of the strength, these are what are called "rare earth" magnets. The particular ones I use are neodymium alloy with nickel plating. I order mine through Lee Valley Tools catalogue (www.leevalley.com). They have a full selection of sizes, special ferrous cups and washers which redirect and amplify the magnetic force, etc. (And no, I am not a Lee Valley Tools share holder. I am sure other people carry them also - this is just the one I know). I use these rare earth magnets to hold tools to the walls, to hold down jigs for repeated designs, and many other applications in my shop. We are also working on a design for hanging pictures and other works on the gallery walls this way. I am currently finishing out a three dimensional chess set where the moveable attack boards are held in place by rare earth magnets (goncalvo alves wood frame, etched deep blue flash glass boards, cast bronze pieces). When it is done, I will post a picture on my web site and describe what I did with the magnets. -----Original Message----- From: Bob E Duchesneau To: Shirley's List ; Bungi Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 3:04 PM Subject: Hang it >Idea! > >Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 >Think glass: have class. >-----Original Message----- >From: MikeFirth >Newsgroups: rec.crafts.glass >Date: Sunday, April 04, 1999 9:41 PM >Subject: Project in any kind of glass > > >> Recently, there appeared in (another department of) our >hardware store, a >>pottery vase about 4" tall and 1.5" inches in diameter with an >indentation in >>the >>back into which a magnet had been glued. Not far away, the same >sized magnet >>appeared on a peg (2 pieces for $1.99, 3/8" x 7/8" x 1 7/8" >ceramic block >>magnet, >>part # 07044 from The Magnet Source, Castle Rock, Colorado >80104) >> This product seems to yell out for use with glass, hot or >cold. Silicone >>adhesive >>would hold it in place. Torch or furnace workers and kiln >workers would have >>to >>make a wooden or metal block the shape of the magnet to form the >indentation as >> >>too much heat destroys magnetic qualities, but stained glass >workers would have >> >>merely to allow for the place for the magnet in their design and >consider >>whether >>they would have to put a liquid tight tube inside if it were to >hold flowers. >> >> Holding the glass in 3-D away from the surface of a >refrigerator would allow >>light >>to pass through the glass in a most interesting way. This >strong a magnet >>might >>also back a hook shaped glass support from which a glass shape >might hang >>and swing decoratively. >> >> Mike Firth, Hot Glass Bits furnace glassblowing newsletter >> MikeFirth@compuserve.com Firthgm@concentric.net >MikeFirth@AOL.com >> Home Page: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MikeFirth >> > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 16:29:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:53:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!75054.2542 From: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@compuserve.com> To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: (Fwd) Re: Stained Glass Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:50:35 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.135035.0> Precedence: bulk ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- If I were in her shoes, I wouldn't take any chances. I'd stick with cutting, grinding and foiling and let you do the soldering *when she's not around.* it doesn't take much heavy metal to do nasty things (like mental retardation, various tremor disorders and so-called "behavioral" things) to a nervous-system-in-the-making. I'm sure Monona will agree! Monona, are you lurking? Sparks ---------------------------------------------- I can't lurk because I'm not on bungi. I get too many inquiries a day to pick up a whole forum. But anytime anyone forwards a post to me I'll answer. I already answered this question in another form and I think Albert will forward it to bungi. But I will reiterate that no lead is good lead for the fetus. Anyone who works with lead and wants to get pregnant should know what their regular blood lead tests show. They owe this to the baby. The Centers for Disease Control says the new "normal" adult blood lead is 0-10ug/dL. However, they note that 2.1ug/dL is the mean average for U.S. adults. So when you are above 2, you know you are getting some from your work or environment. I live in NYC in an very old building and I am usually at about 3+ug/dL. The problem is we don't have all the answers about what happens to the fetus when a pregnant woman's blood is at 10ug/dL? The fetus' blood will be almost at this same level. We also know that a reduction in IQ can be seen in young children at 10ug/dL. And the younger the child, the more damage lead causes. So, although there is no data because you can't test the IQ of a fetus, it would seem there may be a reduction in mental acuity associated with some children born to mothers at this level, too. In any case, mothers with blood leads of 10ug/dL certainly give birth to apparently normal healthy babies. But most mothers want to give their babies the very best start they possibly can. In that case, I'd stay away from lead not only during pregnancy, but for some time before and all during breast feeding. And before a woman even gets a glint in her eye, it would be wise to get her blood tested and get advice if she was at 10 or above. And never, and I really mean never, work with lead at home if you plan a family or have young children. A couple of tiny little flakes on a sticky little finger, a little dust tracked into the babies room, and you can raise the little one's blood lead. You never want an actual source of lead inside the house when there are kids about, or there's about to be kids. Monona Rossol Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety 181 Thompson St., # 23 NYC NY 10012-2586 212/777-0062 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 16:45:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:43:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!slsheldon From: "Sharon Sheldon" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: copying patterns Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:47:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.144746.0> Precedence: bulk Hi All, While on the subject of photocopying patterns, I recently purchased a pair of oak bookends and a pattern book for the inserts on the bookends. When I received my supplies the 'book' was actually a xeroxed copy of a book! It was maybe 10 pages but you could tell it was copied from something more than xeroxed pages. I was quite surprised and when I called the company in question received a haughty 'that's the way we do it.' I can't find a date on the pattern book (I've put them aside and haven't done anything) but wondered what basis they had to do this, and even more to the point: why wasn't it advertised as such? I felt ripped off. I am new to stained glass and it's a hobby so perhaps I'm just not informed about such things. Can anyone advise? Thanks, Sharon No. VA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 17:04:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:51:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: clientside-viennasys.com!sfairbairn From: Steve Fairbairn To: 'Stained Glass Mailing List' Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Copper patina Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:54:08 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.8548.0> Precedence: bulk While applying a copper patina to a panel that I recently finished, I recalled an old high-school lab project where we used a copper sulfate solution to electroplate iron nails. If my memory serves me correctly (its been about 25 years...) we had a copper sulfate solution in a small aquarium tank with a copper electrode inserted into the tank. The electrode was connected to one terminal of a 12 volt battery. The object to be plated (a nail) had a wire connected to it which was connected to the other terminal of the battery. The nail was inserted into the tank and after a few moments, presto - the nail had a nice copper plate on it. Now for my dumb question of the day. Has anyone tried applying this technique to a stained glass panel (foil or came) ? It seems to me to be a lot less work than the conventional method of applying the patina. Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 17:22:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:57:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Denver job opportunity Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:34:50 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.133450.0> Precedence: bulk Hi everyone- This notice appeared in the Glass Artists Fellowship Newsletter and I thought I would post it to bungi in case anyone is moving to the Denver area soon! We're glassy eyed and need help! Dear ambitious and budding stained glass artists, Please come talk to us. We're looking for entry level, freelance talente= d people who are not only anxious to improve fabrication skills but are on a quest to lear= n more about glass design, traditional and avant garde. True, a lot of the work will be rote, assembly fabrication. (Ah, but of exciting, gallery- bound art, so no whining please.) Both of us are award winning artists. We have a lot to offer. Also, one= of us has a = heavy marketing background, just in case you want to learn how to sell those master- pieces. And as your work improves, we'll also take it to market. Call Kelly Williams: 303-980-8732 Cheryl Meyer: 303-831-4341 Good luck to anyone who is interested! I have never heard of these award-winners myself... Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 17:43:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:01:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!StndGlass1 From: StndGlass1@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:59:52 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr5.225952.0> Precedence: bulk At the risk of starting a war, I'm going to give you an answer that contradicts everyone else. I just had a baby 2-1/2 months ago, and I continued my stained glass (as it is my job) throughout the pregnancy. (FYI, my mother did stained glass as a career throughout her pregnancy with myself and my sister as well and we're doing great!) I did so with my doctors permission. I think it is unfair for people to blanket say that you cannot do this and you must not really want the best for your child if you do. Throughout my pregnancy I had my lead levels monitored, and used the UTMOST in safety precautions. I wore rubber gloves ANY time I handled lead or solder, and kept a strong HEPA filtering fan right next to my work area which sucked in all of the fumes. My lead levels never rose once throughout my entire pregnancy, and I'm happy to say I have a perfectly alert and interactive baby boy! I am not saying you should not take precautions, because you ABSOLUTELY should, but don't feel like you have to give everything up! Jenna Meredith-Sanders Meredith Stained Glass www.meredithglass.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 17:58:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:09:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: , "Dr Stacey" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Fwd: Telephone warning Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:59:33 -0400 Message-ID: <199904052300.TAA17210@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk > ******************FORWARDED MESSAGE ************************* > Interesting warning to pass on! > > This can happen at home and at work, everyone should be aware...I sent > this > to all my friends last Friday night and I've already had 3 email me to say > that it's already happened to them. > > I received a telephone call from an individual identifying himself as an > AT&T Service Technician that was running a test on our telephone lines. He > stated that to complete the test we should touch nine (9), zero (0), pound > sign (#) and hang up. Luckily, we were suspicious and refused. > > Upon contacting the telephone company we were informed that by pushing 90# > you end up giving the individual that called you access to your telephone > line > and allows them to place a long distance telephone call, with the charge > appearing on your telephone bill. We were further informed that this scam > has > been originating the local jails/prisons. I have verified with UCB Telecomm > that this actually happens. > > I called GTE Security this morning and verified that this is definitely > possible and DO NOT press 90# for ANYONE. It will give them access to your > phone line to make long distances calls ANYWHERE!!!! The GTE Security > department told me to go ahead and share this information with EVERYONE I > KNOW!!! > Could you PLEASE pass this on. If you have mailing lists and/or > newsletters > from organizations you are connected with, I encourage you to include this > information. > Jimmi, your private address. :-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 18:15:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:42:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!ezcomezgo From: rrk To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: copyrights Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 16:40:00 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.9400.0> References: <<199904052055.QAA27334@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis wrote: > Oh, you can get infringers to *stop infringing, but you can't collect > any money. Albert, This is not true. The damages rewarded by the court, assuming legal action was taken and won, might or might not be very much depending on the damages actually done and recognized, but you *can* sue for and receive damages for copyright infringement. To take a famous case that many of those on the list might be familiar with : Ask George Harrison, author of the song "My Sweet Lord", if copyright infringement isn't collectible. I think he ultimately paid something in the 10's of millions. Most software (any type, pick your poison) is not patented but copyrighted. Go try to copy the GUI design of Microsoft Corp.'s Windows for a new OS, and see what happens ... won't be long before MS is knocking at your door. Ditto for any other of MS's products, Word, Excel, Access ... and so on. Just like patents and trademarks though, a copyright is only as good as your ability to defend it, which is only as good as the money you have to hire attorney's to sue infringers. Anyway .... later .... Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 18:25:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:47:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "K See" Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:46:46 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.94646.0> Precedence: bulk >>Where I took classes they have this statement "Pregnant women and nursing mothers should consult their physicians prior to enrolling in class" I think this says volumes K See<< This bothers me. They are just shoving the responsibility of saying NO off on to the doctor. It makes it sound as if there could be different answers for different women. Pregnant and nursing women are not different in regards to lead and ALL should recieve the same advice on lead. Bob (not a doctor but with his head screwed on straight) Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 18:52:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:00:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Evelyn C Mason" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re;copying patterns Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:34:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.133446.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Evelyn C Mason" >What if you draw them from another's designs? < Often it depends on whether the design is still under copyright or is in the public domain.... and images like a crucifix or a crescent moon are not copyright-able anyw= ay because anyone would be hard-pressed to prove they conceived the idea to begin with..plus you cannot copyright an idea. If you lift a specific image, like Mickey Mouse, no matter how strong your sense of ownership, you're breaking the law and doing something unethical. It doesn't matter if you had a Mickey bedroom growing up.....= = Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 18:54:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:14:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy (more) Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 20:21:06 +0000 Message-ID: <199904060013.UAA02223@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk In response to Sparks' question as to whether Monona's lurking: I can't lurk because I'm not on bungi. I get too many inquiries a day to pick up a whole forum. But anytime anyone forwards a post to me I'll answer. I already answered this question in another form and I think Albert will forward it to bungi. But I will reiterate that no lead is good lead for the fetus. Anyone who works with lead and wants to get pregnant should know what their regular blood lead tests show. They owe this to the baby. The Centers for Disease Control says the new "normal" adult blood lead is 0-10ug/dL. However, they note that 2.1ug/dL is the mean average for U.S. adults. So when you are above 2, you know you are getting some from your work or environment. I live in NYC in an very old building and I am usually at about 3+ug/dL. The problem is we don't have all the answers about what happens to the fetus when a pregnant woman's blood is at 10ug/dL? The fetus' blood will be almost at this same level. We also know that a reduction in IQ can be seen in young children at 10ug/dL. And the younger the child, the more damage lead causes. So, although there is no data because you can't test the IQ of a fetus, it would seem there may be a reduction in mental acuity associated with some children born to mothers at this level, too. In any case, mothers with blood leads of 10ug/dL certainly give birth to apparently normal healthy babies. But most mothers want to give their babies the very best start they possibly can. In that case, I'd stay away from lead not only during pregnancy, but for some time before and all during breast feeding. And before a woman even gets a glint in her eye, it would be wise to get her blood tested and get advice if she was at 10 or above. And never, and I really mean never, work with lead at home if you plan a family or have young children. A couple of tiny little flakes on a sticky little finger, a little dust tracked into the babies room, and you can raise the little one's blood lead. You never want an actual source of lead inside the house when there are kids about, or there's about to be kids. Monona Rossol Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety 181 Thompson St., # 23 NYC NY 10012-2586 212/777-0062 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 19:10:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:14:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: copying patterns Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 20:21:06 +0000 Message-ID: <199904060013.UAA02226@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Do the designers really only get 10% of the price for their work?? > That's terrible. That's how book publishing works: Author (designer, in this case): 10% Publisher: 10% Retailer: 40% Distributor: 20% Production costs: 20% Cost of book: 100% In other words, when the publisher discovers what any book will cost to produce, that cost is multiplied by five to arrive at the cover price. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 19:12:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:14:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 20:21:06 +0000 Message-ID: <199904060013.UAA02244@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk Monona adds: ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- I would add this: 1. The new "normal" standard for adult blood leads is 0-10ug/dL. But the mean average for adults is 2.1ug/dL. This is an important figure because if you are over this level, it is clear you are getting more lead than the average person from some activity or source. For pregnant women, I'd really like to see them as close to 2 as they can get. 2. The lead fumes this woman is worried about are most worrisome if they are generated in the home. The fume is bad enough when the solderer inhales it during work. But then the rest floats and settles all over the house. While it is small in amount, the longer you do this the more lead is present in the dust throughout the house. Not a good idea for pregnant women, rug rats, or ankle biters. Monona --------------------Back in July '96, Monona had this to say: I am a resource person on two national pregnancy hotlines. I advise women working with lead to know what their blood lead counts are before they even get a glint in their eye. We know that lead easily crosses the placental barrier. We also know that children with blood leads of 10 micrograms per deciliter (ug/dl) have somewhat reduced mental acuity. The fetus' brain and nervous system are probably even more sensitive to damage from lead. If a mother has a blood lead of 10 to 15 ug/dl, she can give birth to a fine healthy baby. But if she wants to give her child the very best start in life she can, she should try to keep her blood lead as low as she can manage. Monona > >>She is currently 4 months pregnant. Can anyone tell me if the > fumes from > soldering are in any way harmful to the baby? She is really > worried about it. > > I am wondering if it is well ventilated during the process, would it > really be a problem?<< > > I do not have a clear answer for this one and I doubt that you > will ever find one. The only real answer is to play it safe and quit > the soldering part of stained glass for the time being. Bob > > Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 > Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 19:26:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:41:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!mschatee From: mschatee@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Why he won't get my business Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 20:34:04 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr6.0344.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks everyone for all the responses. I wouldn't have imagined that such discussions would ensue. Let me respond to many of your responses. There were so many that I figured I would wait and of course I forgot a lot of what I was thinking so I will start from scratch. The owner of the store had some original designs that he himself created (he said) for his students use. So he didn't have a problem with keeping the designs original. He said if I took his class I could use them, now here's the original problem I had. It wasn't that he wouldn't let me use his pattern, I totally respect that, it's his pattern he can do anything he wanted with it...but what he did was be rude to me in front of my family and other customers in his store. I don't appreciate being embarrassed or patronize by a stranger. Besides that I was sooo impressed with his work, his store, his variety of supplies and his prices that I thought I was in glass heaven. Since I have only been doing glass for a year and a half and have only shopped at my local supplier I wasn't aware of how nice other stores could be. So he just shot me down, took the wind out of my sails and burst my bubble all in one instant. It wasn't that he wouldn't sell me his pattern it was his rude obnoxious attitude that if I didn't bother taking classes from him I wasn't good enough for his business. It obviously didn't matter to him that I lived far away and would potentially return for more business. Okay onto the next thread. My glass supplier doesn't have a supply of books to sell. He has his personal copies that he purchased, at the studio for us to use. As far as copyright infringement I don't understand. Don't all of you make copies of the patterns that you will use. I was taught to make 2 copies, one to cut up and one to laminate. So how do we do that without photocopying them. It shouldn't matter if he bought the book or I bought the book. I assumed that if the pattern is in a book it's for public use. Next issue: I have no talent for drawing. I thought I could draw my own but it would take me so much time and effort and I'm so busy at work right now that I don't have time ( as soon as I get off the computer it's back to work for me). I will continue looking for a pattern that I think she would like. Then I will go to my local supplier who I adore and treats all his customers with respect and sincerity. I haven't used mail order yet. I'm an impulse type of buyer and like to see and feel the glass, compare and contrast, hold them up to the light together. You know how it is! Someday when I am more than just a hobbyist and have more money to spend I will probably buy my supplies mail order. As it is now I run over pick up a roll of solder, a foot of glass here or there and it doesn't seem to cost much. But when I buy alot at once I feel in it the wallet and really can't afford it right now. I have found that stained glass is a very expensive addiction for a hobbyist who doesn't sell anything. But the rush is worth it, all addicts get some kind of high don't they. Of course I'm addicted or I wouldn't be on this list, right? So thanks everyone for all your input. I'm sure there will be more to read. Caren ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 19:51:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:19:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!gcanvas From: "James C. Kelly" To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Lawn mower proof? Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:17:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.171714.0> Precedence: bulk Abbie in Va asked >>Hi Jim, do you cut the grass around the stones with a lawn >>mower or weedeater? = Actually I don't have any garden stones, as a matter of fact I have no grass. I live in a condo, by choice, so I do not have to cut grass and all those other things to do in the garden. Not that I dont like doing it, I just have reached that point in life that I feel like I have cut enough grass. But, my relatives who have my garden stones cut around them = with a lawn mower or have = placed them in a bed surrounded by mulch. I personally think the lawnmower will have little effect on the stones no matter where you put them. The weedeater on the other hand might eventually = do some damage. Remember that if someone is going to step on them, they should be placed in one to two inches of sand and the = stone shifted back and forth during initial placement so as to allow the sand to act as a firm foundation. Enjoy them. Jim Kelly Virginia Beach VA gcanvas@compuserve.com Monday, April 05, 1999 = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 20:31:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:17:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: scci.net!melissah From: Melissa Hall To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: test tubes Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 22:13:32 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19990405221332.006a1f68@scci.net> Precedence: bulk Hi all, Does anyone out there in bungi land know where I could buy small lots of plain test tubes? Especially those without the maker's name screen printed on them. I found one place but you had to buy them in lots of 500. Thanks, Melissa ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 21:05:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:58:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Don495 From: Don495@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: copyright mudding the waters Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:55:37 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr6.25537.0> Precedence: bulk To make copyright even more confusing. If the image you derive at can be recognized by the casual viewer as coming form a copyrighted image, it's infringment. Don ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 22:26:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:32:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cros.net!soraya From: "Soraya" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: test tubes Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 00:30:58 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.203058.0> References: <<3.0.2.32.19990405221332.006a1f68@scci.net>> Precedence: bulk >>Does anyone out there in bungi land know where I could buy small lots of >>plain test tubes? Especially those without the maker's name screen printed >>on them. I found one place but you had to buy them in lots of 500. Believe it or not...try a restaurant supply house...especially one that caters to the night clubs (you many have to call around)....they should have both glass and plastic test tubes for sale in various quantities. I case any one is really wondering....."Test Tube Shots" or drinks while very popular several years ago....are still available in many places. Take care, Soraya (the former Bartender) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 22:51:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:36:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:35:05 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.14355.0> Precedence: bulk >>I wore rubber gloves ANY time I handled lead or solder, and kept a strong HEPA filtering fan right next to my work area which sucked in all of the fumes.<< I gotta get off this subject but before I do I must get a shot in at HEPA filters. IMO the HEPA filters offered to the public at -$200.00 are a joke and dangerously missleading. On the few occasions I have been asked about the very small ones that are offered for use while working with stained glass I give the following lecture. Save your money for something worthwhile. The filters only capture a fraction of the fumes from soldering and then recirculate the air. Unless the filter media, not cheap, is changed frequently the amount of air filtered becomes much smaller than rated capacity which almost always is insufficient for the space to be filtered anyways. As a practical matter the stained glass person needs a hood and EXHAUST fan that take a suction over the area where soldering is being performed. I have yet to see a stained glass studio that had such a hood and fan assembly. Some do have arrangements that do a fair job. In a previous life I worked with a noxious item called Otto fuel. Learned a bit about filtering and exhaust systems. Not an easy job. Bob Ps: Went to a meeting this evening where a mother bought her defective child. No need to sugar coat it here- this dear child will not lead a normal life. Sad, have no idea what caused the problem. Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 23:05:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:59:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: eatumup.com!byronwells From: byronwells@eatumup.com (Byron Wells) To: "Steve Wernecke" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Strip/Circle Cutters? Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 00:04:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.1948.0> Precedence: bulk I had the same prob with the old Inland cutter... A couple drops of super glue fixed that tho... I emailed Glastar about it yesterday but no reply yet... I'll wait a couple days before sending it back to my supplier ... >I'm sold on Morton's portable glass shop for cutting strips and anything >geometric. You're lucky you got 5 years out of your Inland strip/circle >cutter. I had to take mine back the next day because the embedded nut >pulled out immediately. Store readily exchanged it with, "This happens all >the time." Hmmm... > >Steve > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 23:23:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:01:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: eatumup.com!byronwells From: byronwells@eatumup.com (Byron Wells) To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Strip/Circle Cutters? Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 00:05:52 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.19552.0> Precedence: bulk Will this system cut full 24x48 sheets and larger? Byron.. -----Original Message----- From: Ray Nicholas <103462.2164@compuserve.com> To: Byron Wells Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 3:44 AM Subject: Strip/Circle Cutters? >Message text written by Byron Wells >>Anyone know of any 'decent' Strip/Circle cutters available??< >I have used the Morton System for ten years along with Mortons >package for all shapes (straight edge,ruler guide, angle guides, etc) >It is called the Morton Maxi surface, and the kit is called the Morton >Portable Glass Shop. The straight edge is an aluminum bar which your gla= >ss >cutter follows for straight lines, whether they be angled or perpendicula= >r. >Hasn't failed yet. = > > >Warmly, >Ray Nicholas = > > > Creator's Stained Glass Mfg. Cutter's Mate > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 5 23:24:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:05:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Shirley's List" Subject: Fw: Borax Overglaze Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:05:39 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.15539.0> Precedence: bulk Very important reading for fusers interested in overglazes. Guess I will have to stop taking credit for inventing/mixing a tablespoon of borax in a cup of distilled water and spraying on Spectrum as a preventive for devitrification. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. -----Original Message----- From: O Pato Newsgroups: rec.crafts.glass Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 2:07 AM Subject: Re: Borax Overglaze >In glass fusing overglazes are applied to the glass assemblage prior to >firing in the interest of eliminating surface crystallization -- also >referred to as devitrification. The tendency of any glass to crystallize >depends on its composition and the time/temperature treatment it is >given. Some glasses, like float glass or certain opal glasses readily >devitrify when exposed to a "fusing" firing as the readers here might >imagine. The overglaze on the surface of the article is a softer glass by >nature. That is, for a given temperature the overglaze will be less >viscous (more fluid) than the glass hosting it. The precise mechanism by >which overglazes work is unclear, but we could speculate that the >overglaze presents an environment in which anything that might >crystallize out of the host glass is amply soluble. > >Using Borax to avoid Devit was originated by Ray Ahlgren. He found that >this worked particularly well with Spectrum's glasses, but with the >others, too. Spectrum published a pamphlet featuring Ray's technique, >which involves spraying a hot saturated solution of borax onto the work >prior to firing. Borax will melt to glass by itself at modest >temperatures and fuses before the host glass to resist crystallization. >It's a bit of a pain in the ass as a method, but has been shown to be >wholly successful in many applications. We should note that with the >Borax method there are no heavy metal issues for the tableware people. > >>Do these use Borax as an ingredient too. Is there reason to worry regarding durability on outdoor pieces with >either of these clear >glazes? I am far more concerned with quality and durability than with >saving a couple >of bucks short term. > >All frits (powdered glasses) which you might use to avoid surface >devitrification probably contained borax in the batch from which they >were made. All frits used in fusing overglazes are based on soft >borosilicate glasses, and borax serves to introduce the "boro" part, if >you will. One isn't aware that any fritmaker in the US is melting for the >sole purpose of making overglaze for fused glass. Seems like a year's >consumption for these ends would be a few hours production. Rather, >ceramic overglaze frits have been adapted to fused glass. > >Commercial frits are compounded by highly competent individuals with high >chemical durability in mind. Nothing like having your frit dissolve away >in use to lose good customers, you know. > >Spray "A" is (was?) Drakenfeld 61500 clear overglaze. The 615xx series of >ceramic overglazes were staple production for Drakenfeld for many years. >Of course, Drakenfeld has been through a number of changes in the past 20 >years or so and the firm, now merged with Degussa, is now known as >Cerdec. In this the nature of the offerings have changed and it is >possible that the basic clear overglaze frit used for a Spray "A" sort >of product has changed, too. Probably to a version using less PbO and >more ZnO -- this would probably describe the harder of the overglazes >mentioned in a prior post. Enamels based on these and similar series of >ceramic overglaze produced by a variety of makers are all applicable to >all manner of baked glass processes. > >The harder (higher firing) overglaze might reasonably be expected to >provide the highest durability -- this is a general rule, with notable >exceptions, of course. Choose an overglaze that will be sufficiently >fluid at the peak temperature required for the effects you want and the >glasses you use. What matters is that the overglaze fuses well onto the >surface of the ware. Underfired overglaze, if it contains PbO, may leach >Pb in amounts exceeding a variety of Standards of concern to people >making tableware. It is also possible that underfired overglaze will be >more susceptible to atmospheric attack than a well melted film -- there >are a couple reasons for this I'm not interested in going into right now. >It's late. > >In fact, very little is known about the absolute durability of fused >glass surfaces produced by overglazing. One has seen several examples of >corroded overglazed fused glass outdoors, but really very few and most >showing poor technique in making or installation. > >Really, it would be better if the glassmakers simply made glasses that >don't devitrify so easily. It's not that hard to do. > >O Pato na beira da Praia > > >-- >"It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that isn't so. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 00:23:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:08:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Artists giving back..Kosovo Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 01:13:57 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr5.201357.0> Precedence: bulk I dont watch a whole lot of TV. I just watched more than I could handle about the people fleeing Kosovo...Saw these poor little kids that had homes a couple of days ago. Now many of them dont even have parents. Over whelmingly sad to me. I sold my latest fan lamp today, and the check is in my purse. Watching that show made me realise, I dont need it so much...I wouldnt really miss it and could live with myself much better if I just go ahead and send it on to Unicef. I hope *most of you will feel the same way and send some to them too. I did read that 100% of the donation to unicef will go directly to aid in Kosovo. http://www.unicefusa.org/alert/emergency/kosovo_alert/help.html http://www.savethechildren.org/kosovo/index.html Tulsa Suzanne "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 02:56:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:44:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: copyrights Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 04:51:57 +0000 Message-ID: <199904060844.EAA06708@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > > Oh, you can get infringers to *stop infringing, but you can't > > collect any money. > This is not true. The damages rewarded by the court, assuming legal > action was taken and won, might or might not be very much depending > on the damages actually done and recognized, but you *can* sue for > and receive damages for copyright infringement. I'm not sure you understood, Bob, that I was making the difference clear between automatically copyrighted creative output (anything and everything one makes is copyrighted) and output the copyright for which has been *registered. It's my understanding that only *registered copyrights can be enforced with damages (money) awarded. All copyrights can be enforced, but enforcement of unregistered copyrights can only result in getting the infringing parties to stop doing so. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 03:11:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:45:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 04:51:57 +0000 Message-ID: <199904060844.EAA06701@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > At the risk of starting a war, I'm going to give you an answer that > contradicts everyone else. Congrats on the healthy baby, Jenna, and on the fact that you were able to continue working with lead throughout your pregnancy without any as-yet discernable side effects. Since you run a rather largish stained glass retail and studio outlet, though, it's not surprising that you'd test working with lead throughout your pregnancy. I'm just wondering, though, if you'd feel the same about smoking and pregnancy. Perhaps if you were a member of the Reynolds family? Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 03:23:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:46:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 04:51:58 +0000 Message-ID: <199904060844.EAA06691@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > I have yet to see a stained glass studio that had > such a hood and fan assembly. Hi, Bob. You simply must, then, at some point, visit Cummings Studios here in North Adams. The unzipping room's tables have large heavy-duty vacuum systems over them, big tubes that can be moved to right over the work being done. The room is sealed off from the rest of the studio, the craftspeople wear respirators ... the whole nine yards. As far as I know, it's the only American studio that takes such steps. They have in general a very serious approach to the whole question: all craftspeople wear fresh coveralls every day, shower at end of day and the coveralls are picked up weekly by Hazmat cleaners. Lead tests are mandatory every six months and if any employees should go over a certain mark, they're off the bench and assigned other duties until the blood lead level drops back to acceptable. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 06:31:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 05:26:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ipa.net!gecko From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Re: test tubes Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:24:50 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.22450.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BE80C7.B90AE9E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well Melissa, I never cease to be amazed by www.ebay.com I went there and typed in test tubes and found, to my big surprise, = several items listed. I've included a few of the links that I thought sounded = like what you are looking for. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D87282721 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D87283702 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D87284487 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D87304118 I noticed that one of the above auction items does have the = manufacturer's name printed on it, but I would bet that a moment or two with a bit of = steel wool, and some determination would alleviate that problem. Ok... now for the important part..... WHAT'RE YOU GONNA MAKE?! No wait... lemme guess... you've worked out a formula for growing sheets of stained glass under closely monitored laboratory conditions!? oh wait... an army of miniature Patrick clones, marching onto the Kosovo front, resplendent in their bejeweled glass battle skirts!! Oh the mind just runs amok! (which is a problem that's been addressed = with me before!) Hope this helps you out!!! Blake :-) -----Original Message----- From: Melissa Hall To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 10:36 PM Subject: test tubes >Hi all, > Does anyone out there in bungi land know where I could buy small lots = of >plain test tubes? Especially those without the maker's name screen = printed >on them. I found one place but you had to buy them in lots of 500. > >Thanks, >Melissa > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BE80C7.B90AE9E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well Melissa, I never cease to be amazed by www.ebay.com

I went there and = typed in=20 test tubes and found, to my big surprise, several
items listed.  = I've=20 included a few of the links that  I thought sounded like
what = you are=20 looking for.

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D87282721

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D87283702

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D87284487

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D87304118

I=20 noticed that one of the above auction items does have the = manufacturer's
name=20 printed on it, but I would bet that a moment or two with a bit of = steel
wool,=20 and some determination would alleviate that problem.

Ok... now = for the=20 important part.....
WHAT'RE YOU GONNA MAKE?!
No wait... lemme=20 guess...

you've worked out a formula for growing sheets of = stained glass=20 under
closely monitored laboratory conditions!?

oh = wait...

an=20 army of miniature Patrick clones, marching onto the Kosovo = front,
resplendent=20 in their bejeweled glass battle skirts!!

Oh the mind just runs=20 amok!  (which is a problem that's been addressed with
me=20 before!)

Hope this helps you=20 out!!!
Blake
:-)


-----Original Message-----
From: = Melissa=20 Hall <melissah@scci.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Monday, = April 05,=20 1999 10:36 PM
Subject: test tubes


>Hi all,
> Does = anyone=20 out there in bungi land know where I could buy small lots = of
>plain test=20 tubes?  Especially those without the maker's name screen = printed
>on=20 them.  I found one place but you had to buy them in lots of=20 500.
>
>Thanks,
>Melissa
>
>----
>For= =20 subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
&g= t;To send=20 to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives = available at=20 http://www.bungi.com/glass
<= /BODY> ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BE80C7.B90AE9E0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 06:51:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 05:39:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mindspring.com!pigznpawz From: "Jerri" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: nice site Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 08:38:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.43836.0> Precedence: bulk I just stumbled across this site. Some very nice work. I know I've seen the belly dancer on another (SGB?) site. There's a beautiful peacock screen, and check out the soldered sculptured dragons. They put the creative casting type pieces to shame! Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 07:03:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 05:56:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Albert Lewis Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 08:00:44 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.3044.0> References: <<199904060844.EAA06691@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk Monona's mail is pretty scary. I feel like a walking contaminant. Now I feel like Graham shouldnt even be allowed to walk through my workshop. I have been using the same vacuum cleaner in my work shop as in the rest of the house. When Graham was about a year his lead level was up a little, and since I was breastfeeding I got his pediatrician to test my blood too. Mine is higher than the average person, but wouldnt be attributed to glass work, since I hadnt gotten back to it yet. More likely it was caused by living in a home that was built in 1924. I am due for yearly Dr appts, will be interesting to see if my lead level has gone up now that I am doing glass again. Think I will get Grahams levels checked again too..to make sure his arent going up. It was pretty terrifying when they told me his lead level was up. I really watched where he put his mouth, and filtered all our drinking water. His levels did drop. Pretty helpless feeling though. Now it would be *my fault. T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 07:21:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 06:01:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Garden Stakes Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:01:29 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr6.13129.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/5/99 10:27:44 AM, jazzykid@tir.com wrote: >[...] stained glass butterflies. Does anyone know if they >are using brazing rods for the stake? I think that's what's usually used. They do tend to become brittle in winter though, so I'd advise folks to bring them inside when the weather starts to get nippy. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 07:34:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 06:02:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'Tim & Adriana Atwood'" , Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Hang it Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:01:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.5154.0> Precedence: bulk Thank you for the info on Lee Valley. I have gone to their site, ordered the catalog and really enjoyed myself reading their recent correspondence, especially the Rx for Bag Balm. Use the stuff all the time - good for the "occasional" glass cut. Linda The particular ones I use are neodymium alloy with nickel plating. I order mine through Lee Valley Tools catalogue (www.leevalley.com). ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 08:03:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 06:22:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aries17.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: re: Copyright... software Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:20:37 -0400 Message-ID: <199904061320.JAA00843@aries17.uwaterloo.ca> Precedence: bulk Bob claims: | Most software (any type, pick your poison) is not patented but | copyrighted. Go try to copy the GUI design of Microsoft Corp.'s Windows | for a new OS, and see what happens ... won't be long before MS is Bob, you're mixing concepts. The "look and feel" of an application is a very cloudy area in which some companies have been able to succesfully sue other, but many have not. I don't remember if it actually falls into copyright. Cases about it are Microsoft vs. Apple. Lotus vs. Borland. Software --for bizarre reasons, and I believe, because of the interests of the software companies-- is considered a "literary work". Therefore, it is protected in the same way that a book. You cannot make copies of it and redistribute them, either by profit or not. When you buy a copy of Word, you don't buy Word, you buy a licence to use Word. With regard to the patterns and patterns books, there is what is known as "fair use", that allows you to use a small section of a work into another. The problem is how to define small in this area. :) | Just like patents and trademarks though, a copyright is only as good as | your ability to defend it, which is only as good as the money you have | to hire attorney's to sue infringers. Totally true. It is, in a way, a moral responsibility not to steal from somebody else. -- Daniel M. German "And the world, to each individual, means the part of it with which John Stuart Mill -> he comes in contact." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 09:33:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 06:22:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aries17.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: re: Copyright... software Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:20:37 -0400 Message-ID: <199904061320.JAA00843@aries17.uwaterloo.ca> Precedence: bulk Bob claims: | Most software (any type, pick your poison) is not patented but | copyrighted. Go try to copy the GUI design of Microsoft Corp.'s Windows | for a new OS, and see what happens ... won't be long before MS is Bob, you're mixing concepts. The "look and feel" of an application is a very cloudy area in which some companies have been able to succesfully sue other, but many have not. I don't remember if it actually falls into copyright. Cases about it are Microsoft vs. Apple. Lotus vs. Borland. Software --for bizarre reasons, and I believe, because of the interests of the software companies-- is considered a "literary work". Therefore, it is protected in the same way that a book. You cannot make copies of it and redistribute them, either by profit or not. When you buy a copy of Word, you don't buy Word, you buy a licence to use Word. With regard to the patterns and patterns books, there is what is known as "fair use", that allows you to use a small section of a work into another. The problem is how to define small in this area. :) | Just like patents and trademarks though, a copyright is only as good as | your ability to defend it, which is only as good as the money you have | to hire attorney's to sue infringers. Totally true. It is, in a way, a moral responsibility not to steal from somebody else. -- Daniel M. German "And the world, to each individual, means the part of it with which John Stuart Mill -> he comes in contact." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 09:53:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 06:24:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: copyrights Date: Tue Apr 6 06:23:54 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.4154.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE802E.2EC8610C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To take a famous case that many of those on the list might be familiar with : Ask George Harrison, author of the song "My Sweet Lord", if copyright infringement isn't collectible. I think he ultimately paid something in the 10's of millions. Anyway .... later .... Bob There was another case where IBM claimed copyright on the term "bookshelf" as applied to documentation/books on electronic media. It happened over 7 years ago and I don't remember hearing a court ruling. As with so much else, copyright seems to depend on how good your lawyer is. Vic M. vmodiano@ctronsoft.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE802E.2EC8610C Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: copyrights

To take a famous case that many of those on the list = might be familiar
with : Ask George Harrison, author of the song = "My Sweet Lord", if
copyright infringement isn't collectible. = <G>  I think he ultimately
paid something in the 10's of millions.

Anyway .... later .... Bob

There was another case where IBM claimed copyright on = the term "bookshelf" as applied to documentation/books on = electronic media. It happened over 7 years ago and I don't remember = hearing a court ruling.

As with so much else, copyright seems to depend on = how good your lawyer is.

Vic M.
vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE802E.2EC8610C-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 10:00:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 06:31:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: copying patterns Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:28:51 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr6.132851.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/5/99 5:38:39 PM, ellenid@earthlink.net wrote: >Do the designers really only get 10% of the price for their work?? That's >terrible. Terrible as it seems, that's the general rule across the publishing industry. My other half, who's a composer, gets 10% on everything of his that sells directly (but 50% on rentals such as orchestral parts, because the publisher can "sell" the same printed materials several times). The rest of the price gets eaten up in printing, advertising, and distribution. That's why Carolyn Kyle, the Wardells, et al. have their own publishing companies. They make out far better that way, because they get not only the artist's cut but the publisher's, the distributor's, etc. Between the economics (including widely available, affordable professional-quality desktop publishing tools; I just love my 1200 dpi tabloid-size laser printer) and the fact that the web gives them widespread, inexpensive advertising exposure, more and more folks these days are deciding that self-publishing is the way to go. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 10:07:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 06:32:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: business 101 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 07:10:43 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.11043.0> Precedence: bulk Because I live so far from anything!!! One of the joys of going somewhere is visit the local glass shop. There are about a dozen of us that do glass in my town, we have formed a guild, and when someone goes somewhere it is almost required for them to visit a glass shop and share with us, new pattern books, glass, tools, etc. I get out of town shops email addresses if they have them, and order from them, if they have something I can't find anywhere else. The more anyone shares with me in terms of time and information, the more pleasant the visit. I am more likely to remember them, they are more likely to remember me, and we are more likely to do business. I think being a "nice" person always pays off. Business should not change that. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 10:20:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 06:33:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Long Beach for B. Britt Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 07:16:55 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.11655.0> Precedence: bulk There are two in one. Vicki Payne's Glass Extravaganza, june 11,12,& 13. and Festival of Art Glass June 13 at Long Beach Convention Center, Long Beach California. extravaganza@worldnet.att.com www.agsa.org ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 10:21:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 07:14:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Fw: Re: Interesting-Y2K and your VCR Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 07:02:50 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.0250.0> Precedence: bulk Veerrry Interesting.... Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ >From: Dtbears@aol.com >Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 00:57:45 EST >To: Dtbears@aol.com >Subject: Re: Interesting-Y2K and your VCR >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 > ><< > > RE: New VCR setting for 2000 > > > > Here is something I bet you hadn't thought would be an issue for Y2K. > > You won't be able to use the programed recording feature. > > > > " Do not throw away your VCR in the year 2000. Set it on 1972 because > > the days will be the same. Please pass this on because you know the > > manufacturer will not share this information. They will want you to buy > > a new one that is Y2K compliant." > > > >> Ron Schroeder rons@fea.net They are not long, the days of wine and roses: Out of a misty dream Our path emerges for a while, then closes, Within a dream. Vitae Summa Brevis - Ernest Dowson ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 10:23:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 07:21:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:15:37 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr6.141537.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/5/99 7:44:12 PM, StndGlass1@aol.com wrote: >Throughout my pregnancy I had my lead >levels monitored, and used the UTMOST in safety precautions. I wore rubber >gloves ANY time I handled lead or solder, and kept a strong HEPA filtering >fan right next to my work area which sucked in all of the fumes. Having worked in the chemical industry (including several months in a facility that makes catalytic converters..... platinum, vanadium, all kinds of nasties), I can (and do) say that it's possible to work safely with almost any hazardous material PROVIDED THAT PROPER SAFETY PRECAUTIONS ARE TAKEN AND ALL HANDLING PROTOCOLS ARE FOLLOWED TO THE LETTER (I am now done shouting.) As a pro, you (and your mother before you) know how to handle the materials to minimize your risk. You have to, because you're around the stuff all day every day and you depend on it for your livelihood. Ironically, often it's the hobbyist who can get into trouble by treating the stuff too casually. "How dangerous can it be, people do it at home all the time," etc. If you don't have proper safety equipment *and* a place to work that's isolated from your living areas (for instance, my garage doesn't even have a door leading into the rest of the house, and what I *really* wish I could do is put up one of those prefab sheds out at the back of the yard), it's best to err on the side of caution. Sparks p.s. to our pregnant hobbyist: How about using the next few months to develop your design skills? That way ou'll have plenty of original stuff to work on when the coast is clear! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 10:37:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 06:57:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Hang it Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:50:56 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr6.135056.0> Precedence: bulk Also sprach Tim Atwood: >Lee Valley Tools catalogue (www.leevalley.com) Hooboy, I found these guys on the net and promptly ordered a catalog from them. Slobber, slobber! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 10:37:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 07:23:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Re;copying patterns Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:21:11 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr6.142111.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/5/99 8:52:53 PM, GreerStudios@compuserve.com wrote: >If you lift a specific image, like Mickey >Mouse, no matter >how strong your sense of ownership, you're breaking the law and doing >something >unethical. It doesn't matter if you had a Mickey bedroom growing up..... Mickey is back........ Recently I read in one of the national news magazines that Disney's copyright on him was due to expire in 2003, and recently the company went after (and got) a 20-year extension of that copyright (contrary to "normal" copyright law; just goes to show you what you can do if you have enough money and hardball tactics to throw at the supposed "powers that be").... Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 10:42:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 07:32:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Strip/Circle Cutters? Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:30:10 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr6.143010.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/6/99 1:24:57 AM, byronwells@eatumup.com wrote: >Will this [Morton] system cut full 24x48 sheets and larger? You can now get a longer bar for the Morton System that will take a full 24" wide sheet when used on a Maxi Surface. I just picked one up recently. Pricey but worth it IMO, because I don't have any full-sheet sized storage space and frequently have to cut full sheets of glass in half to fit in my undercounter bin. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 10:50:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 07:33:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Lawn mower proof? Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:25:30 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr6.142530.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/5/99 9:52:22 PM, gcanvas@compuserve.com wrote: >I personally think the lawnmower will have little effect >on the stones no matter where you put them. Oh, but what those stones will do to your lawn mower blade if they're not sunk into the ground and you run over one!!!!!! =8-O OTOH, I don't think the weedwhacker will do a thing to them, especially if you're using high-quality concrete like Rapidset (R). Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 10:51:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 07:46:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Now *that's* safety precautions! Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:38:56 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr6.143856.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/6/99 5:24:05 AM, Albert wrote: >You simply must, then, at some point, visit Cummings Studios here in >North Adams. [...] As far as I >know, it's the only American studio that takes such steps. [...] Sounds like the catalytic-converter manufacturer I worked for. The hell of it was, they only used those precautions on the manufacturing side. All of us poor slobs on the R&D side were pretty much on our own; the company didn't take *our* hazards seriously at all, I guess because we weren't working with tons of the stuff. The dust was everywhere though. And I used to get razzed mercilessly for trotting out coveralls, respirator, hood, etc. and running around looking like a space invader when I had to get into something messy. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 10:53:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 08:05:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mindspring.com!pigznpawz From: "Jerri" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: nice site-----------oops Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:04:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.7454.0> Precedence: bulk You people are so picky. I tell you about a nice site, and you want me to provide the address too! Sorry. (See why I don't post much?) My charming computer skills at work. Here's the address: http://home.earthlink.net/~asgitp/ Jerri >I just stumbled across this site. Some very nice work. I know I've seen the belly dancer on another (SGB?) site. There's a beautiful peacock screen, and check out the soldered sculptured dragons. They put the creative casting type pieces to shame! Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 11:07:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:34:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Artists giving back..Kosovo Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 08:41:50 -0700 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990406084150.009b6570@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> References: <<1999Apr5.201357.0>> Precedence: bulk At 01:13 AM 4/6/99 -0500, Tulsa Suzanne wrote: >I dont watch a whole lot of TV. I just watched more than I could handle >about the people fleeing Kosovo...Saw these poor little kids that had >homes a couple of days ago. Now many of them dont even have parents. >Over whelmingly sad to me. > >I sold my latest fan lamp today, and the check is in my purse. Watching >that show made me realise, I dont need it so much...I wouldnt really >miss it and could live with myself much better if I just go ahead and >send it on to Unicef. > >I hope *most of you will feel the same way and send some to them too. > >I did read that 100% of the donation to unicef will go directly to aid >in Kosovo. > >http://www.unicefusa.org/alert/emergency/kosovo_alert/help.html >http://www.savethechildren.org/kosovo/index.html > >Tulsa Suzanne > >"Winning isn't always finishing first. >Sometimes winning is just finishing." >Manuel Diotte Thanks for the wake-up call, Suzanne. I just made an on-line donation. It's easy, folks. Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 11:09:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:40:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.megsinet.net!pjnelson From: Paula Nelson To: CncptThnkr@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: copying patterns and retailers who offend customers Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 09:47:06 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.4476.0> Precedence: bulk >Speaking of morals, the retailer I used to deal with had his employees sort >the trash baskets after classes to sort out all the scrap big enough to sell, >just think of the possibilities, he could sell scrap from glass a student >paid for to another student and when the scrap from that student hit the >trash sell it again!!! It would have been nice for the instructors to >mention to the students the benefits of saving scrap glass. This was before >the recent upswing in the popularity of mosaic but in my mind scrap glass has >always been worth saving. That's a really 'trashy' way to treat anyone - no pun intended, but it does work, doesn't it . The instructor of my masters class told us to save everything over the size of a quarter. I have plastic shoeboxes that are filled by specific type, and for some colors I don't use much of - I haven't needed to cut a large piece in years... Paula Nelson uitland@glassdogstudio.com The Glass Dog Studio http://www.glassdogstudio.com/TGDS.htm vom Uitland Rottweilers http://www.glassdogstudio.com/uitland.htm ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 11:20:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:41:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: giraffe-joos Date: Tue Apr 6 09:39:46 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.71746.0> Precedence: bulk hi guys just talked to jeff eckes, who makes giraffe-joos i have it available in 8oz bottles if anyone is looking for it...contact me off list thanx debbie taylor kleeman@one.net http://www.taylordexpressions.com your complete stained glass supply source 1-888-488-9616 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 11:23:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:11:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: clientside-viennasys.com!sfairbairn From: Steve Fairbairn To: 'Stained Glass Mailing List' Content-Type: text/plain Subject: RE: copyrights Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:13:01 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.3131.0> Precedence: bulk You absolutely must defend your patents and copyrights. During the Microsoft vs. Apple wars where Apple was suing Microsoft for "look and feel" of Windows and some mouse technology, Xerox, who invented the mouse, the concept of "floating resizable windows" and the GUI interface, decided to sue Apple. This was some 5 or 6 years after the Apple Lisa (Mac predecessor) first came out. The judge would not hear the case because Xerox had waited too long to sue and buy not defending their intellectual property lost the ownership of that property. It did, however, put to bed many of the issues that Apple had with Microsoft. On the flip side, Lotus successfully sued Paperback Software, who produced a spreadsheet with similar pull-down menus to Lotus 123, for "look and feel" and as a result put Paperback Software out of business. Steve -----Original Message----- From: rrk [mailto:ezcomezgo@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, April 05, 1999 4:40 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: copyrights Just like patents and trademarks though, a copyright is only as good as your ability to defend it, which is only as good as the money you have to hire attorney's to sue infringers. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 11:34:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:34:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:41:10 +0000 Message-ID: <199904061733.NAA12495@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > When stained glass > is your business, however, you do not automatically have to stop. > Just my opinion. Yes, Jenna. And I didn't mean to be unfair, just to point out that we all pick our poisons and when to take them. When my ex was carrying my youngest, she stopped smoking *and drinking the whole time she carried him. Granted, t'was only cigarettes and wine, but still. He's turned out okay ... and might have in any case (who ever knows?) apart from the fact that he's 17 and thus unbearably more intelligent and wider read and more knowledgeable on every subject than either I am or his mother to boot. Or that's what *he thinks, in any case. I'd just think the same kind of caution would apply where lead is concerned, but as you say ... it's only MY opinion and quite obviously, it's a decision I'll never have to make, given my gender. Best regards always, Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 11:50:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:43:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:51:14 +0000 Message-ID: <199904061743.NAA12631@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Ironically, often it's the hobbyist who can get into trouble by > treating the stuff too casually. "How dangerous can it be, people do > it at home all the time," etc. Not to mention the retailers who gloss over the subject, or ignore it, or (worst of all) deny its existence. Somebody's going to get hit with some enormous legal bills at some point and perhaps those attitudes (where they exist) will change. Similarly, many full-bore studios for a long time denied or discounted lead (and other) hazards to their employees. Then even in its malnourished and underfunded state, OSHA showed up, shut them down, made them clean up (their acts) ... and those studios are now some of the loudest proclaimers of how important those concerns are. Nothin' like tappin' the ol' wallet to get one's attention. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 11:54:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:45:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: copying patterns Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:51:14 +0000 Message-ID: <199904061743.NAA12670@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > That's why Carolyn Kyle, the Wardells, et al. have their own > publishing companies. They make out far better that way, because > they get not only the artist's cut but the publisher's, the > distributor's, etc. But only when they sell direct to the end users ... and both Kyle and Wardell sell mostly to the distributors, as I understand it. Is it possible to buy directly from either of them? A ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 12:11:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:22:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mindspring.com!pigznpawz From: "Jerri" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: site address Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:23:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.92317.0> Precedence: bulk I think I sent this already, but if I didn't, here it is again: http://home.earthlink.net/~asgitp/ Let's just say, it's a good thing I majored in nursing instead of computers. Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 12:18:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:49:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Re;copying patterns Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:55:40 +0000 Message-ID: <199904061748.NAA12707@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > and recently the company went after (and got) a 20-year extension of > that copyright (contrary to "normal" copyright law; just goes to > show you what you can do if you have enough money and hardball > tactics to throw at the supposed "powers that be").... Hm! I thought they'd gotten the law changed for *everyone, not just for themselves (although it was certainly themselves they were interested in, of course). A ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 12:20:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:50:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: Sharon Sheldon Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: copying patterns Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:49:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr6.3496.0> References: <<1999Apr5.144746.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi Sharon: You were asking why the company sent you copies of the pattern book instead of the book for patterns to go along with your bookends. Actually you should feel very pleased with the company because the folk who make the bookends no longer include the pattern book with their product. Unless the company had a book, they would not have anything to send you. My supplier sells "copies" of the patterns for the bookends when you order the bookends. Peggy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 12:50:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:03:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tir.com!jazzykid From: "jazzykid" To: "Jerri" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: nice site-----------oops Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:01:42 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.8142.0> Precedence: bulk Great site. But, what caught my interest is the "Miracle Mud" Has anyone tried it? I love to lead, but I don't because I hate the putty now available, the smell will leave me with a sore throat and keep me sneezing for days! Jill Medlyn -----Original Message----- From: Jerri To: glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 11:05 AM Subject: nice site-----------oops >You people are so picky. I tell you about a nice site, and you want me to >provide the address too! > >Sorry. (See why I don't post much?) My charming computer skills at work. > >Here's the address: > > >http://home.earthlink.net/~asgitp/ > >Jerri > > > > >>I just stumbled across this site. Some very nice work. I know I've seen >the belly dancer on another (SGB?) site. There's a beautiful peacock >screen, and check out the soldered sculptured dragons. They put the >creative casting type pieces to shame! > >Jerri > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 13:11:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:08:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 12:04:30 -0700 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990406120430.009ba7c0@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> Precedence: bulk At 01:41 PM 4/6/99 +0000, Albert wrote: > >Yes, Jenna. And I didn't mean to be unfair, just to point out that we >all pick our poisons and when to take them. When my ex was >carrying my youngest, she stopped smoking *and drinking the whole >time she carried him. Granted, t'was only cigarettes and wine, but >still. He's turned out okay ... and might have in any case (who ever >knows?) apart from the fact that he's 17 and thus unbearably more >intelligent and wider read and more knowledgeable on every subject >than either I am or his mother to boot. Or that's what *he thinks, in >any case. > You're in for a thrill, Albert. You're going to get a *lot* smarter in the next couple of years! Funny thing...happens to every parent around the same time. ;-) Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 13:19:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:11:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'Witchdoc3@aol.com'" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Rapidset was:Lawn mower proof? Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:13:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.111324.0> Precedence: bulk Where do you folks get Rapidset? All I see in the home stores around here is Quickcrete. Linda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 13:36:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:43:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pobox.com!Northernlights From: "Northernlights (Tracy Reitmann)" To: Paula Nelson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: saving scraps of glass Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 14:41:58 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.94158.0> References: <<1999Apr6.4476.0>> Organization: http://members.tripod.com/Northernlights/index.html Precedence: bulk FYI......surfing through EBay on-line last night I did a search of things for sale relating to stained glass....pretty interesting in general BUT I noticed someone auctioning off scraps of glass, something like 5 pounds worth, "perfect for a beginner or anyone working with mosaics." I'm not sure how much the bidding is up to yet on her/his auction, but I'll keep track of it. Guess there's always a way to make a buck in this world. (I'm wondering when/if she/he's going to start selling scraps of lead by the pound too!) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 13:50:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:27:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "bungi group" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:21:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.112141.0> Precedence: bulk Back in the stone ages when we didn't know how bad things were for you I was a potter. A pregnant potter. (cute ) I mixed my own glazes and probably did tons of stuff that was really unsafe. Fired plenty of things in my kiln without thinking of an exhaust fan. Although I was a vegetarian , a non-smoker and non-drinker I think that what I did extra probably outweighed the negative stuff I did. My daughter has always been around glass, lead, frits, enamels, glass paints you name it. And thankfully she is quite healthy. We all make sure that we get blood work done once a year. And have for years. I do think that common sense probably saved a lot of us in those days. We never ate in a contaminated areas. Changed out clothing as soon as we left the studio and made sure that we cleaned up after . What a quite gentler time that was. Now we have more vents, exhausts, filters, gloves, work clothes and detergents than we know what to do with. What can't get hosed down gets hepa filtered cleaned. What can't be vacuumed get disposed of in containers that would make Green Peace proud. We spend as much time cleaning out studio as we do working in it. We just installed an airbush cabinet for painting with a hood filter and exhaust that probably costs more than my first car. I know that the new kiln and hood did. But better safe than sorry. my best, pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis To: glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 2:53 PM Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy >> When stained glass >> is your business, however, you do not automatically have to stop. >> Just my opinion. > >Yes, Jenna. And I didn't mean to be unfair, just to point out that we >all pick our poisons and when to take them. When my ex was >carrying my youngest, she stopped smoking *and drinking the whole >time she carried him. Granted, t'was only cigarettes and wine, but >still. He's turned out okay ... and might have in any case (who ever >knows?) apart from the fact that he's 17 and thus unbearably more >intelligent and wider read and more knowledgeable on every subject >than either I am or his mother to boot. Or that's what *he thinks, in >any case. > >I'd just think the same kind of caution would apply where lead is >concerned, but as you say ... it's only MY opinion and quite >obviously, it's a decision I'll never have to make, given my gender. > >Best regards always, > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 14:05:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:31:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Albert Lewis" Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:30:37 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.53037.0> Precedence: bulk Albert wrote, in part: Hi, Bob. You simply must, then, at some point, visit Cummings Studios here in North Adams. The unzipping room's tables have large heavy-duty vacuum systems over them, big tubes that can be moved to right over the work being done. The room is sealed off from the rest of the studio, the craftspeople wear respirators ... the whole nine yards. As far as I know, it's the only American studio that takes such steps.<< And visit I shall should I retire and get to traveling. New England is my old stamping grounds. Cummings Studios is the exception when it comes to safety when working with stained glass. Certainly I can make no claim to good safety practices at my studio but I have seen far worse. Stained glass is sort of a "pick up" art and many studios do what is convient or what they "think" is safe. There is an overall lack of knowledge of good safety practices. Anyway, with pregnant women I just play safe and discourage them from working with lead. Have even refused to sell it to them. There is plenty of other stained glass work that may be safely done. Seems a small inconvience over the alternative of taking an unknown chance with a fetus that you are going to have to nuture for the next eighteen to fifty years. My sister spends forty hours a week assisting with the care of eighteen disabled childen that are wards of the state. Something went wrong with these children and it can never be corrected. I do not subscribe or countersign to anyone that has taken the chance and got away with it. I take plenty of chances with my own body but do not feel that attidude should extend to the unborn. Bob Ps: I promise to get off this subject. Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 14:13:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:06:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY From: JJKIRBY@aol.com To: artglass@waterw.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: How not to gain my business 101 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:03:09 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr6.2039.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/5/99 11:04:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, artglass@waterw.com writes: << Thats pretty simple......he makes x number of dollars on classes and more on supplies for those classes and builds up a relationship with his students. As opposed to selling this pattern one time to a person he will never see again. In the case under discussion, he was going to sell pattern and supplies. I further assume, since the buyer had a friend/relative some chance for repeat business existed. If the person who buys the pattern decides they want to sell the work they have create.....in reality yes it has taken money out of his pocket. So the retailer has lost theoretical money by selling the pattern, if the buyer decides to reproduce the piece for sale. What do you think the odds would be, that they were competing for the same customer? Real money, e.g. from the sale of the pattern pays bills. The bank won't take the lost opportunity money. This supplier also had these panels in his store for sale. And the person who wanted to buy the pattern wasn't going to purchase supplies from this retailer. >> Using your logic then, the retailer's special relationship students will really rob him blind, since they are local and have free access to his patterns. I hope he figured this lost opportunity into his class costs. To me, a pattern is a "potential" piece of art/craft. A craftsperson has a right to withold it, in order to limit the production of the piece. On the other hand, to sell to some and not others, or to attempt to limit production - for "personal use", has always seemed bogus, capricious and unreasonable. More and more, I find myself using patterns for ideas and deriving my own patterns. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 14:24:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:13:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!ezcomezgo From: rrk To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: copyrights Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 13:02:21 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.6221.0> References: <<1999Apr6.3131.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi folks, Most of my experience is in patents (chemical, mechanical, and computing) mainly because I either have patents in those domains or are working on them presently. In spite of that, I do have some knowledge of trademarks and copyright law. However, IANAL and don=92t take my word= for it if you have any serious questions about any of this. Most of copyright law is straightforward, compared with patent law, *especially* US patent law, which is a total can of worms with those =93obviousness=94= and =93date of conception=94 and =93diligent pursuit=94 criteria. There = are MANY good books on the subject that can be found in any public library or bookstore. Note that there were sweeping reforms of the copyright laws in 1989 so don=92t bother with books printed before 1990. One of th= e reforms was that a copyright is now the life of the author + 75 years and can be extended by the author=92s estate up to two times for 50 (or 100, not certain) years each time. Prior to 1989 a copyright had a life of only 26 years. I=92m not 100% certain of those numbers, but I know they=92re very close . There were also some provisions for extentions= of copyrights established prior to 1989 for currently living authors to the new copyright laws. The provisions were somewhat detailed, and cost some money, so they didn=92t really apply to anyone but big name artists and/or creators. The =93its legal to reproduce portions of=94 part of current copyright la= w was intended for the critics (of whatever medium) to be able to quote from a literary work, musical work, opera, plastic arts, and so on, in a review without being sued. A pattern for stained glass work is intended to stand alone as an independent creation even if it is included as part of a larger collection. So, I would bet cash money that reproducing a stained glass pattern would stand up in court as copyright infringement even if the pattern is only a single part of a larger collection. For example, Robert Oddy has copyrighted (lets pick one out of the hat) that picture of the bamboo and the moon (most of the people here on this list know that work I=92ll betcha ). Now if someone copied that *exact* pattern, or even modified the pattern such that it was slightly different but still recognizable as originating from Robert Oddy, he would have the right to sue that person for copyright infringement. It seems unlikely that Mr. Oddy would sue for a single copy (assuming he even found out about it). Now if someone was offering something like a limited edition set of copies (say 1000 copies) for sale at, lets take a stab at it, $250 each, now we=92re talking about a business proposition worth $250,000 USD, then Mr. Oddy could do something about it, rightfully so, and it would be worth his while. Just guessing .... but compensatory damages would likely be on the order of 10 to 25%, or $25,000 to $62,500 + court costs, so it would be worth it to him to do that and thats not even considering punitive damages. Albert said : <<<< It's my understanding that only *registered copyrights can be enforced with damages (money) awarded. All copyrights can be enforced, but enforcement of unregistered copyrights can only result in getting the infringing parties to stop doing so. >>>>> A copyright is deemed to exist automatically upon creation of the work, with no registration being necessary. If a copyright is registered with the Copyright Office (which technically is part of the Library of Congress), on any copyrightable material, a certificate of registration will be granted without examination as to the work=92s novelty. That is,= the offensive rights granted by the US government to the author(s) of copyrightable materials are not dependent on the actual registration of the copyrightable materials with the Copyright Office. A copyright registration strengthens any case of an author against any infringement, but the offensive rights of the author are not attendant upon registration with the Copyright Office. The only thing a registration does is establish an unambiguous date of creation. = However, such a date may be established by a variety of other methods; registration of a copyrightable work with the Copyright Office is only one. = Patents are an entirely different story altogether. Getting a patent costs between $3,000 to $100,000 USD depending on how you go about it, where you=92re applying (US, France, Japan, etc), and who prepares it. = This is a long complex subject and one that has little application/interest currently in the stained glass biz, certainly not for this list , so I=92ll stop here on patents. Albert said : <<<< I'm not sure you understood, Bob, that I was making the difference clear between automatically copyrighted creative output (anything and everything one makes is copyrighted) and output the copyright for which has been *registered. >>>>> I understood perfectly Albert. But what I said earlier applies : A copyright is deemed to exist automatically upon creation of the work, with no registration being necessary. However, as I recall, the intent to copy plays a role in the litigation as well. That is, if I created a scene in stained glass substantially similar to some other person=92s but I could demonstrate that I had never= been exposed to the work (for example, if the work was part of a private home not open to the public), I would not be infringing the other=92s copyright even if it was virtually identical. Anyway ... gotta keep movin=92 .... lets get back to glass. Regards to all ..... Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 14:39:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:13:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!ezcomezgo From: rrk To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Copyright... software Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 13:08:09 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.689.0> References: <<199904061320.JAA00843@aries17.uwaterloo.ca>> Precedence: bulk Charles Spitzer wrote: > well, almost. micro$oft copied their gui from apple, who took them to c= ourt > over 'look and feel' similarities, and lost. Charles, = Apple did *not* lose, the case was settled out of court. The desktop GUI that we have today was first conceived and the rudiments developed at Xerox's Palo Alto Research Center (called XPARC, or just The PARC by those in the field) in the 1970's though the general idea for a GUI actually dates back to the 1950=92s (back in John von Neuman=92= s time). The patent for the mouse was filed in 1968 btw. Mr. Steve Jobs et.al. at Apple Computer in Cupertino, California (just down the road from Palo Alto) got ahold of that work and eventually marketed as the MacIntosh computer. There were a lot of things in the Mac (of 1984) that were not in STAR (Xerox=92s original version of the GUI we have today). Mr. William Gates and Mr. Steve Ballmer of the then fledgling Microsoft Corp. in Redmond, Washington believed that this graphic user environment and the attendant operating system was the way of the future and they bet the farm on it. So, they pretty much copied the entire user environment (Mac and Star), renamed it Windows, and started selling it along with a few other computer programs to make the OS/GUI actually good for something such as word processing and so on. Apple Computer immediately recognized this as a knock off copy and took them to court on it. The case took some years to get through the process and a lot of other things were happening in the computer biz. Xerox Corp. got involved, saying that THEY invented it (which was only partially true) and weakened Apple=92s case. Actually, Xerox tried to sue both Apple Computer and Microsoft Corp. but the judge said they'd waited too long and told em to take a hike (I've translated liberally from the legalese ). Microsoft Corp. was gathering steam and settled out of court with Apple. The computer biz was moving SO fast that it simply wasn't worth pursuing. Apple's sales were by then dependent on having Mac-compatible versions of Word and Excel ... so settling the case out of court was in their interest as well. I'm sure all this historical stuff on the development of the PC is available on the web in more detail than I have recounted here, I=92ve included some references for those interested. Actually a LOT of stuff either came out of XPARC or from people who were trained there. For example, Dr. Bob Deering (a great guy I=92ve actually= met), now the resident egghead at Cisco, and the man in charge of IPV6, worked at XPARC and was essentially trained there. Then he went to the U.Cal.Berkeley where he got his Ph.D. and was also a professor ... where he was the leader of the group that developed the sockets paradigm used today as the basis for the internet. It was a government contract from ARPA that UCB got. When the US invaded Grenada, the military folks found they had all these computers that couldn=92t talk to one another. = So ... Pres. Reagan went through the roof, and MADE the military develop ways such that their computers could talk to one another .... the UCB contract was the result ... and following that ... the internet resulted =2E.. and we have our glass list . Anyway ... Lets get back to glass stuff. Best regards .......... Bob Some links for the history : = http://www.ambridge.nl/apple-history/GUI.html http://www.ambridge.nl/apple-history/GUIdiscussion.html http://www.ambridge.nl/apple-history/horn1.html http://www.ambridge.nl/apple-history/raskin1.html http://www.ambridge.nl/apple-history/horn2.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 14:52:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:47:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:52:47 +0000 Message-ID: <199904062045.QAA16140@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > My sister spends forty hours a week > assisting with the care of eighteen disabled childen that are wards > of the state. Something went wrong with these children and it can > never be corrected. Yes. My daughter-in-law is an RN who specializes in such kids up in Alaska. Must be a hard thing to deal with so much lost potential. A ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 15:15:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:08:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Tue Apr 6 14:07:51 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.114551.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE806E.8354F5F6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: Steve Wernecke [mailto:steve@villagesoftsmith.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 3:05 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy At 01:41 PM 4/6/99 +0000, Albert wrote: > >Yes, Jenna. And I didn't mean to be unfair, just to point out that we >all pick our poisons and when to take them. When my ex was >carrying my youngest, she stopped smoking *and drinking the whole >time she carried him. Granted, t'was only cigarettes and wine, but >still. He's turned out okay ... and might have in any case (who ever >knows?) apart from the fact that he's 17 and thus unbearably more >intelligent and wider read and more knowledgeable on every subject >than either I am or his mother to boot. Or that's what *he thinks, in >any case. > You're in for a thrill, Albert. You're going to get a *lot* smarter in the next couple of years! Funny thing...happens to every parent around the same time. ;-) Steve ---- Steve You think it starts in their teens? My almost 4 year old thinks he knows more than Mom and Dad already. Vic M. vmodiano@ctronsoft.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE806E.8354F5F6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: Stained Glass during pregnancy

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Wernecke [mailto:steve@villagesoftsmith.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 3:05 PM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy


At 01:41 PM 4/6/99 +0000, Albert wrote:
>
>Yes, Jenna. And I didn't mean to be unfair, just to point out that we
>all pick our poisons and when to take them. <smile> When my ex was
>carrying my youngest, she stopped smoking *and drinking the whole
>time she carried him. Granted, t'was only cigarettes and wine, but
>still. He's turned out okay ... and might have in any case (who ever
>knows?) apart from the fact that he's 17 and thus unbearably more
>intelligent and wider read and more knowledgeable on every subject
>than either I am or his mother to boot. Or that's what *he thinks, in
>any case.
>

You're in for a thrill, Albert.  You're going to get a *lot* smarter in the
next couple of years!  Funny thing...happens to every parent around the
same time. ;-)

Steve
----

Steve

        You think it starts in their teens?
        My almost 4 year old thinks he knows more than Mom and Dad already.

Vic M.
vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE806E.8354F5F6-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 15:34:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:12:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" Subject: What would you do? Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:10:52 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.71052.0> Precedence: bulk Ten days ago I made a house call to close the deal on a stained glass window. Seemed like a sure sale. Everything went well until the end. When I quoted my price I was told that they would have to get back to me. A few minutes ago the homeowner was in and said that they had a couple of other bids that were lower than mine and would I lower my price. They did not give me any idea of the other design or the price. I politely declined and recommended they go with the low bid(s). So, what would you do? I know that if I lowered my bid I would resent doing the job. I've been down that road before and do not like it. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 15:53:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:51:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Unacknowledged lead hazards Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 22:25:45 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990406222545.007b1940@mailhost.stainedglass.co.uk> References: <<199904061743.NAA12631@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk At 13:51 06/04/99 +0000, Albert wrote: >Similarly, many full-bore studios for a long time denied or >discounted lead (and other) hazards to their employees. Then even in >its malnourished and underfunded state, OSHA showed up, shut them >down, made them clean up (their acts) ... and those studios are now >some of the loudest proclaimers of how important those concerns are. >Nothin' like tappin' the ol' wallet to get one's attention. > Yes the same kind of thing happened several years ago in our area where one worker at a local glaziers was taken off work for a long time till his high lead level went down. The ironic fact was that he worked for a franchise of Stained Glass Overlay (SGO) which is only stickon lead - not lead came. His employer hadnt thought that the precautions should be applied to imitation stained glass work as much as to the real thing and got a hefty fine and had to reorganise the workshop to quite an expensive extent. What worries me at the moment is that I caught a showing on one of our Cable TV shopping channels over the holiday weekend offering rolls of stickon permaled at a fairly cheap price to the home DIYer/crafter with no mention that as it was *real lead* strip there might be a health hazard that needed precautions to be taken.!! We have sent off for a roll to see if any warnings are sent with the product and if not then a phone call to our local Health and Safety office will be in order I think. Plus a letter to the programme producers too if I can find an address. EliZabeth in Bournemouth http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 15:53:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:38:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: (no subject) Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 14:10:27 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.71027.0> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk In that case, I'd stay away from lead not only during pregnancy, but for some time before and all during breast feeding. oh man, that could be OVER TWO YEARS away from glass...personally I think I just found another good reason to boost the profits of the good folks at enfamil if I ever had another baby..I would think too...if a mother has been doing glass all along prepregnancy..she might have elevated lead in her milk anyway....formula is not as bad as some of the nuts out there make it out to be..... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 16:10:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:52:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: thanks to all,copyright... Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:52:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.135216.0> Precedence: bulk I am going to be more diligent and draw these perfect little moons myself.....I don't want to take someone elses designs that they worked so hard on.....this way they will be mine....thanks to all...Abbie in Va ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 16:21:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:54:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Miracle Mudd (was: nice site-----------oops) Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 22:25:50 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990406222550.0079fdc0@mailhost.stainedglass.co.uk> References: <<1999Apr6.8142.0>> Precedence: bulk At 15:01 06/04/99 -0700, Jill wrote: >Great site. >But, what caught my interest is the "Miracle Mud" Has anyone tried it? >I love to lead, but I don't because I hate the putty now available, the >smell will leave me with a sore throat and keep me sneezing for days! >From what I have heard it is a great product and easy to use. Unfortunately no-one in UK imports it yet so we cant try it for ourselves. EliZabeth in Bournemouth http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 16:59:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:01:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: What would you do? Date: Tue Apr 6 16:00:41 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.133841.0> Precedence: bulk i would not lower my bid unless it was just a couple dollars, and that depends on the $ amount of the bid. just like at shows when people offer you something for a piece, i am sorry i do not barter and this is not a flea market, it is an art. i thought when i got into the larger shows this would stop, but it doesn't. i also thought when i got my own studio i would not have people ask me to do that, but it does. my standard answer is that when you can get walmart to sell you something at the price you want them too, i will also. i know there is such a thing as a price war, but the glass industry is not big enough to have to do this. these people will get what they pay for. they will not get the quality and beauty of work you could give them,bob. even when i just started out and felt like i needed to find pennies on the street, i did not lower my price. and you will probably get the repair job, any way >bg< my useless $02 worth debbie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 17:23:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:04:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: scci.net!melissah From: Melissa Hall To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: test tubes Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 19:00:37 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19990406190037.0069edf0@scci.net> References: <<1999Apr7.22450.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi all, Thanks for all the good test tube suggestions suggestions - especially the eBay one. I had never been to that site before. That was just way cool! And for those of you who are curious, I wanted to make some sort of contraption to hold a tiny bouquet of flowers as well as a place card for a table setting. The test tube is to insert to hold the flowers since soldered joints aren't water tight. Thanks again, Melissa ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 17:25:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:06:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:mschatee@juno.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Why he won't get my business Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:02:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.15241.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:mschatee@juno.com >I don't appreciate being embarrassed or patronize by a stranger.< I don't blame you and that is unexcusable on the part of the owner.... Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 17:38:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:16:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: "Bob E Duchesneau" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: What would you do? Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:17:44 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.91744.0> Precedence: bulk IMHO you did right by not lowering your price........If you think the design has been radically changed (simpler) offer to re-bid on the "new" design. There is usually someone who will do it cheaper, or just to "get supplies" or just to exchange labor for minimum wage. I usually over the phone quote $300.00 per square foot as a ROUGH estimate of what I charge for a window sight un-seen. I prefer lamps and do not care if I never get a window to do, and it is true, I rarely get a window for a commission. If that price does not seem outrageous, I will then look at a design, location, or what the potential client wants. Currently have 2 lamps to do. neither one is a "give-a-way" or for busy work. enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com Elaine and Howard best lamps on the "net": http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 17:41:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:48:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!charles_spitzer From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What would you do? Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 16:44:09 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990406164409.00bc38b0@atlas2.az.stratus.com> References: <<"1999Apr6.71052.0*"@MHS>> Precedence: bulk At 02:10 PM 4/6/99 -0700, you wrote: >Ten days ago I made a house call to close the deal on a stained glass >window. Seemed like a sure sale. Everything went well until the end. >When I quoted my price I was told that they would have to get back to >me. > >A few minutes ago the homeowner was in and said that they had a couple >of other bids that were lower than mine and would I lower my price. >They did not give me any idea of the other design or the price. I >politely declined and recommended they go with the low bid(s). > >So, what would you do? I know that if I lowered my bid I would resent >doing the job. I've been down that road before and do not like it. Bob > >Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 >Think glass: have class. well, if i needed the money to eat, then i might have suggested something not quite as elaborate, or less quality glass, and cut the price somewhat. if you don't, then them asking if you'd match means they want you rather than the others and are just shopping for price. if you say no, then they might ask you to do it anyway if they perceive you as 'better' than the others. after all, i've asked for discounts in some odd places, and found that there are some hidden ones. if you don't ask, you don't get. you might only have to get close, and not match the low bids. when i replaced my $5k a/c unit, i went with a place that was initially higher than low bid, but matched so that it was only a couple hundred dollars away. the perceived value to that company over the low bidders' was worth (to me) the extra amount. regards, charlie phx, az ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 18:00:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:52:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:mschatee@juno.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Why he won't get my business Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:02:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.15244.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:mschatee@juno.com >So how do we do that without photocopying them. < We do it the old-fashioned way.... we do a scale original, then draft a full-size panel by hand, then trace a second (if necessary... we also English cut) using huge shee= ts of carbon paper. Yes, I know I should get a scanner and print them out.... but, look at it= this way. Next January when everyone else is dealing with Y2K challenges, I'll be catching up on= all my pattern drafting! ;-) best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 18:08:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:26:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: vvm.com!ktjude From: judy novak To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: scrap glass Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 18:27:29 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.132729.0> Organization: calumet farm and studios/glass & goodies Precedence: bulk Digging out scrap glass to sell to students and repeating the process........ I thought I would share our use of 'scrap glass'. We put the usable student scrap glass (they are given all the needed glass for their first project with the cost of the class - no matter how much they break incorrectly) into bins where we keep our scrap glass and the students may get their choice of glass from the bins to make additional 'sun catcher' patterns they wish to make outside of class for extra practice for $2.00 including 2 copies of a suncatcher pattern of their choice. They may purchase as many of these "packages" as they choose. The smaller pieces are placed into large plastic tubs with lids and donated to the art departments of local schools. They really seem to enjoy it and they make great stuff with it! This works for us........ keeps us happy and we sleep good at night! Ah, nothing like a good nights sleep! judy n ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 18:16:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:55:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What would you do? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 20:01:17 +0000 Message-ID: <199904062353.TAA20094@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > price. They did not give me any idea of the other design or the > price. I politely declined and recommended they go with the low > bid(s). Perfect answer, Bob, for two reasons: 1. If they were trying to "snow" you, they're stuck unless they come back and say "oh, we found out the lower bidders can't do it," or something like that. 2. You shouldn't work for less than you're worth anyway. Or for less than what you carefully figured the job *should cost. Don't let 'em grind you down. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 18:32:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:32:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Steve Wernecke Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:31:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.153157.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Steve Wernecke > You're in for a thril< Well, there's got to be some benefit to getting old.... ooops, who said that! Best regards, The Brat ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 18:33:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:33:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Bob E Duchesneau" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: What would you do? Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:32:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.15324.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Bob E Duchesneau" >I politely declined and recommended they go with the low bid(s).< There are lots of folks who work for less than we do.... I don't lower my= prices ever. I do, = however, make sure I mention my minimum price per s.f. very early on in o= ur conversations, and make sure they know what the MINIMUM price on that window of theirs might be before I do any serious designing. If they're going to gag at the price,= might as well be up front than after I've spent a bunch of time on them! best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 18:34:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:33:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "jazzykid" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: nice site-----------oops Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:31:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.153153.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "jazzykid" >I hate the putty now available, the smell will leave me with a sore throat and keep me sneezing for days! < Most all the putty should be basically the same ingredients: Whiting, boiled linseed oil, turp or mineral spirits, and I'm pretty sure most of the commercial mixes= include plaster of Paris, too, which archivally is a no-no. Some might also contain Japa= n drier. My guess is your allergic to the linseed oil... it's quite common among oil painters. Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 18:51:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:48:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Elizabeth Arakelian Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Lead, pregnancy, breastfeeding. Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 18:54:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.13548.0> References: <<1999Apr6.71027.0>> Precedence: bulk > In that case, I'd stay away from > lead not only during pregnancy, but for some time before and all during > breast feeding. > > oh man, that could be OVER TWO YEARS away from glass... .personally I > think I just found another good reason to boost the profits of the good > folks at enfamil if I ever had another baby..I would think too...if a > mother has been doing glass all along prepregnancy..she might have > elevated lead in her milk anyway....formula is not as bad as some of >the nuts out there make it out to be..... .... but breastfeeding *is as good for the baby as they say it is, whereas Formula is not. Formula does not/cannot carry *specific antibodies for the individual childs needs. Breastmilk can and does. There are lots of reasons to breastfeed. If anyone wants some good information comparing benefits of breastmilk compared to formula in a non confrontational or judgmental forum, I will be more than happy to direct them to some good sources of information. Off list. I am *not looking to debate here. If anyone cares to educate *them selves so they can make an intelligent decision based on fact, not advertising, I will be happy to direct them to resources of reliable information, regarding the feeding of babies. I think you would be wise to listen to the World heath organization rather than to Carnation or enfamil however. No one should be judged by another for the choice to breastfeed or not to breastfeed their child. If a woman cannot or chooses not to, that is fine by me. I dont think Bungi is the forum to debate the benefits of breastfeeding or not to breastfeed. This has come up several times recently, and felt that each time women who breastfeed were called names. I held my mouth as long as I could. I like you Elizabeth, that is why I didnt say anything before....but it is too hard for me to continue. Tulsa Suzanne who never really minded being different, different makes you special, and several who love me compliment me by calling me a nut! ;o) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 18:53:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:21:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: glass@bungi.com, alewis@adelphia.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: (no subject) Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 17:00:29 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.10029.0> References: <<199904062353.TAA20109@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis wrote: > > > think I just found another good reason to boost the profits of the > > good folks at enfamil if I ever had another baby..I would think > > too...if a mother has been doing glass all along prepregnancy..she > > might have elevated lead in her milk anyway....formula is not as bad > > as some of the nuts out there make it out to be..... > > Nuts come and nuts go. I was born during a phase of "breast feeding > is bad for the baby." (Huh?) So I and my five brothers were all > bottle fed. Let's see: I'm doing okay. One of my brothers is a legal > eagle in Beijing with an international telco and lives there with his > wife and six daughters (and one son). The rest of us seem okay, too. > Ecclesiastes (I think it was) said it a long time ago: "there's > nothing new under the sun." Heck, my 17-year-old's wearing bell > bottoms! > > Formula's good. > > Albert Yes Albert, that is sort of the sentiment of my husband...his life was SAVED by formula...his mother had ulcerative colitis (geez and she was BREASTFED too..how could THAT have happened....) and she just couldnt do it....husband was ten weeks premature and they had to feed him the stuff by the dropperful....nowadays I am sure there would be some politically correct nurse trying to shame his mother into breastfeeding especially given the family medical history, or trying to get them to buy milk from a milk bank or even find a wet nurse (now THATS a concept especially in this day and age of AIDS..and dont EVEN get me going on the crap I saw a few weeks ago denying the risk of HIV transmission by breastfeeding to try and even get HIV positive mothers to try it)..I am sure they would be saying that if it could theoretically be done then she would be lazy and selfish not to do it, no matter what the personal cost to herself or her comfort level. dont get me wrong, its good women have been given more options but IMHO this whole "breast is best" thing has just gone way way WAY too far...also IMHO I think that it is a collective guilt on the part of those who were so hostile to nursing for so long that they (medical establishment and others) have just done a complete 180 to try and made amends for their past actions...there is a saying in psych circles that 180 degrees of sick is still sick and I think that that well applies here...going from one extreme to the other is almost always just as bad..I wasnt going to say anything in bungi about this subject further since I am sure most people in here really could care one way or another as long as the baby gets fed but since you brought it up.... \ Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 19:06:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:58:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: email.msn.com!eastgatexx From: "Alan Terry" To: "Bungi" Subject: Re: What would you do? Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:58:10 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.105810.0> Precedence: bulk Congratulations! You and you alone know what price is going to motivate and compensate you. Lowering your bid is fine if you are motivated and empowered by the creativity/site/prestege/whatever of the job, or if you decide for YOUR reasons to do so. It's hell otherwise. My opinion... Best, Alan -----Original Message----- From: Bob E Duchesneau To: Bungi Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 3:39 PM Subject: What would you do? >Ten days ago I made a house call to close the deal on a stained glass >window. Seemed like a sure sale. Everything went well until the end. >When I quoted my price I was told that they would have to get back to >me. > >A few minutes ago the homeowner was in and said that they had a couple >of other bids that were lower than mine and would I lower my price. >They did not give me any idea of the other design or the price. I >politely declined and recommended they go with the low bid(s). > >So, what would you do? I know that if I lowered my bid I would resent >doing the job. I've been down that road before and do not like it. Bob > >Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 >Think glass: have class. > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 19:30:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:51:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Hang it Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:02:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.15236.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Tim & Adriana Atwood" >I order mine through Lee Valley Tools catalogue (www.leevalley.com). < I've ordered magnets from them three times and they won't ship them into the U.S. The only other thing I'll say about Lee Valley is this: If you don't get= their catalog, sign up, they're the coolest ever..... Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 19:40:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:20:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uswest.net!jeriksen From: erik b eriksen To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: unsubscribe Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 20:20:12 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.152012.0> Precedence: bulk -- Your Account Information 8/3/1998 7:14 PM ______________________________________________________________ Name: Provider: USWEST.net Dialup access number: (515) 241-9180 Login name: jeriksen Login password: DKRVkBER Email address: jeriksen@uswest.net Email password: DKRVkBER SMTP server: pop.desm.uswest.net POP server: pop.desm.uswest.net News (NNTP) server: news.uswest.net Domain name: desm.uswest.net Primary DNS server: 207.108.32.1 Secondary DNS server: 204.147.80.5 Modem: Motorola ModemSURFR 56K External Other information: Provider's technical support number: 1-888-777-9569 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 19:56:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:37:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!75054.2542 From: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@compuserve.com> To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: (Fwd) Re: Stained Glass Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:32:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.173216.0> Precedence: bulk ----------------forward------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 08:00:44 -0500 From: Suzanne Reply-to: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com To: Albert Lewis Cc: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy SNIP > When Graham was about a year his lead level was up a little, and since > I was breastfeeding I got his pediatrician to test my blood too. Mine > is higher than the average person, but wouldnt be attributed to > glass work, since I hadnt gotten back to it yet. More likely it was > caused by living in a home that was built in 1924. < ----------------------------------------------- It also could be a phenomena we see with women who have a pretty good amount of lead stored in their bones. These women can cease all lead exposure and still see their blood leads rise a bit as they mobilize calcium--and hence the lead as well--from their bones during pregnancy and during breast feeding. Monona Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety 181 Thompson St., # 23 New York NY 10012-2586 212/777-0062 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 20:36:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:32:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: judy novak Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: scrap glass Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 21:38:15 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.163815.0> References: <<1999Apr6.132729.0>> Precedence: bulk > I thought I would share our use of 'scrap glass'. > We put the usable student scrap glass (they are given all the needed > glass for their first project with the cost of the class - no matter how > much they break incorrectly) into bins where we keep our scrap glass and > the students may get their choice of glass from the bins to make > additional 'sun catcher' patterns they wish to make outside of class for > extra practice for $2.00 including 2 copies of a suncatcher pattern of > their choice. They may purchase as many of these "packages" as they > choose. > The smaller pieces are placed into large plastic tubs with lids and > donated to the art departments of local schools. They really seem to > enjoy it and they make great stuff with it! > This works for us........ keeps us happy and we sleep good at night! Ah, > nothing like a good nights sleep! > > judy n > Not only is that more than fair Judy, it is very generous. Way to go! ;o) T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 21:09:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 20:10:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Monona Rossol <75054.2542@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: Stained Glass Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 22:16:50 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.171650.0> References: <<1999Apr6.173216.0>> Precedence: bulk Monona Rossol wrote: > > ----------------forward------------------ > Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 08:00:44 -0500 > From: Suzanne > Reply-to: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com > To: Albert Lewis > Cc: glass@bungi.com > Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy > > SNIP > > > When Graham was about a year his lead level was up a little, and since > > I was breastfeeding I got his pediatrician to test my blood too. Mine > > is higher than the average person, but wouldnt be attributed to > > glass work, since I hadnt gotten back to it yet. More likely it was > > caused by living in a home that was built in 1924. < > ----------------------------------------------- > > It also could be a phenomena we see with women who have a pretty good amount > of lead stored in their bones. These women can cease all lead exposure and > still see their blood leads rise a bit as they mobilize calcium--and hence > the lead as well--from their bones during pregnancy and during breast feeding. > > Monona > > Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety > 181 Thompson St., # 23 > New York NY 10012-2586 212/777-0062 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass In my situation, I hadn't done any stained glass work for at least 15 yrs prior to my pregnancy/breastfeeding. I didnt resume until after he was weaned. T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 21:23:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:54:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!ellenid From: Elleni Drafts To: "Northernlights (Tracy Reitmann)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: saving scraps of glass Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:54:57 -0400 Message-ID: References: <<1999Apr6.4476.0>>> Precedence: bulk >FYI......surfing through EBay on-line last night I did a search of things for >sale relating to stained glass....pretty interesting in general BUT I noticed >someone auctioning off scraps of glass, something like 5 pounds worth, >"perfect >for a beginner or anyone working with mosaics." The first glass I bought was glass scraps for mosiacs. It was $1.50 a pound at a glass shop in Florida. Elleni ellenid@earthlink.net South Carolina - Smiling Faces - Beautiful Places ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 21:41:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 20:29:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cyberportal.net!dmj From: "Dean Johnson" To: "Bungi List" , "Sprecher" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: polarized film Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 23:04:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.19445.0> References: <<1999Apr3.7629.0>> Precedence: bulk Lynda: You can buy a set (you need 2 pieces) of 6" x6" polarizing filters from C&R Loo for $13.90. If these aren't shown on their website http://crloo.com, (not all their catalog items, especially tools, are on the site) then phone them at 800-227-1780. Edmund Scientific does have a website: http://www.edsci.com/ Elizabeth Johnson dmj@cyberportal.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 22:40:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:27:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Off to Las Vegas Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:25:10 PDT Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, I am off to Las Vegas tomorrow. I doubt I'll be reading any email so if anyone needs any subscription changes done,...it'll have to wait till probably Sunday night. Sorry. Hope to soak up as much info as I can...see you there! -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 22:51:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:30:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!CWWSLW From: CWWSLW@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: saving scraps of glass Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 00:28:50 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr7.42850.0> Precedence: bulk The local glass shop here sells scraps for $1.00 pound. You pick it out yourself from their "scrap boxes". Lets see...$39.00 for 5 lbs, or $5.00 for 5 lbs......... Susan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 6 23:49:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:34:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" Subject: Breast feeding Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:32:59 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.153259.0> Precedence: bulk If God wanted mothers to feed their children formular He would have issued them can openers. Bob (just last year my mother told me she hired a wet nurse when she was sick. Explains a lot.) Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 00:14:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 23:11:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cros.net!soraya From: "Soraya" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: saving scraps of glass Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 02:09:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr6.22917.0> References: <<1999Apr7.42850.0>> Precedence: bulk > The local glass shop here sells scraps for $1.00 pound. You pick it out > yourself from their "scrap boxes". Same way here.....and let me tell you...Ben's (the owners) definition of a pound is very heavy!! Need just a few pieces of a colour you are not likely to use again or to match something you may have 'goofed'? He'll tell you to take it....free. These are among the reasons why he get 95% of my glass dollars. Take Care, Soraya ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 03:58:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 03:14:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'Melissa Hall'" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: test tubes Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:16:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.21657.0> Precedence: bulk Sorry, I must have missed this thread first time around but if it's test tubes you want, did you try: http://sciplus.com/ American Science and Surplus They have EVERYTHING at discount prices. Linda -----Original Message----- From: Melissa Hall [SMTP:melissah@scci.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 7:01 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: test tubes Hi all, Thanks for all the good test tube suggestions suggestions - especially the eBay one. I had never been to that site before. That was just way cool! And for those of you who are curious, I wanted to make some sort of contraption to hold a tiny bouquet of flowers as well as a place card for a table setting. The test tube is to insert to hold the flowers since soldered joints aren't water tight. Thanks again, Melissa ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 04:58:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 04:04:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: a-znet.com!royalpane From: "Michael Bruno" To: Subject: Test Tubes Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:05:18 -0500 Message-ID: <199904071116.HAA30985@mail.a-znet.com> Precedence: bulk You might want to get a catalog from a high school science teacher for test tubes. A lot of the vendors will sell in less than 500 piece lots. Michael Royal Pane Stained Glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 05:59:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 05:12:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: ctombro@InfoAve.Net Subject: Re: Stained Glass during pregnancy Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:18:52 +0000 Message-ID: <199904071211.IAA26781@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Just out of curiosity Albert, to your knowledge have any of these > worker's blood levels exceeded l0, especially with all of these > precautions which cost wise are probably beyond the reach of most of > us. I know you can't put a price on our lives or a baby's life, so I > am curious as to the effectiveness of these precautions. Since I was speaking of Cummings Studios, which is located in Massachusetts, it's that state's standard that governs. A booklet published by the State reads, in part: "The Lead Standard, written by OSHA, requires employers to do a number of things to make certain the workplace is safe. No employee should be exposed to lead at or above 50 micrograms per cubic meter of air (mcg per cubic meter) in an 8-hour day, the OSHA Permissible Exposure Limit (PEL). Clean showers, change rooms and lunchrooms must be provided and used. The Standard also requires air sampling for lead exposures, methods for reducing lead in the workplace, medical testing of employees to determine whether their bodies are taking in too much lead, and paid removal from the job in cases of lead poisoning." To answer your question about Cummings employees and whether any of them had ever had blood lead levels in excess of 10, I gave them a call. Sure, they said, but in the last 12 years, the time during which they've had rigid protective measures in place, only one employee has ever exceeded the mandated limit, which isn't surprising given the amount of restoration they do. Unzipping old windows is the largest source of lead being tossed into the air. I tried to get hold of Monona Rossol to see whether 10 is a reasonable number to expect even in major metro areas, but she wasn't available when I called. I'll copy this to her to see what she might have to say about that. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 06:59:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:00:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'Lou Deskins'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Bag Balm Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:02:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.5246.0> Precedence: bulk Lou, Bag Balm is an utter cream for cow teats that is sold in farm supply and garden stores. It is also sold in sewing catalog for use by quilters who often prick fingers with needles. It is a petroleum base like vasoline with antiseptic. My Nany swore by it and it does seem that small cuts and hurts are much better by morning if Bag Balm is used. Try it, you will like it. A little goes a long way. Comes in an attractive square green tin. The small size (1 oz.) usually runs about $6-7 but heck you can get a 1 pound can for about $10. I have one of each and refill the small from the large. Glad you asked and hope you don't mind that I answered to the group as well. Linda Hi Linda - What is "Bag Balm" ??? I cut myself yesterday (just banged my knuckle on the edge of a piece of glass.....) and wonder if this is something that will help all those layers of skin that I took off grow back? >especially the Rx for Bag Balm. Use the stuff all the time - good for the >"occasional" glass cut. > >Linda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 07:17:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:06:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: What would I do? Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:25:03 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.1253.0> Precedence: bulk I guess because I live in a mainly hispanic community, the culture respects and appreciates bartering as an art form. This does not mean that one has to lower their prices during the barter. If you believe in yourself and your product, then when the customer wants you to lower the price, what they may truly want you to do, is educate them as to why your product is worth the extra dollar. I tend to like high-end products in general. I don't have a lot of money (I am a school teacher), but when investing in things that will last me as long as a stained glass window will....I think as a customer I would enjoy being reminded that this is not a product to "price" shop for. Albert is right, the reason the customer came back and made an attempt at trying to get you to lower your price is that they did prefer your work over the other bids. What they may have needed was an education. I went to Howard's web page, and he does this very eloquently by discussing the quality of glass that is used in all his work. Would I really want to buy a lamp, with Spectrum glass? I don't think so. But I need Howard to tell me why! Most people do not understand glass, stained glass, and what is involved. Don't be afraid to promote yourself... In terms of the bartering, if you imply to your customer that your work is superior for whatever the reason, then the customer wins by paying the extra price. That is what bartering in about. Both the provider and the consumer must feel like they are winning...when bartering is done right it is splendid! By the way, Wal-mart does barter...they will match any other merchant's price. But it really doesn't apply here...art is different. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 07:32:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:07:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: hotmail.com!katmath From: "Kathy Mather" To: BOBDU@prodigy.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: What would you do? Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 06:06:12 PDT Message-ID: <1999Apr7.13612.0> Precedence: bulk Bob, You know what your work is worth, to lower your price if you think that your price is fair would only be selling your self short. Let them go with the lower price, hold with what you think that you know your work is worth. Kathy >From: "Bob E Duchesneau" >To: "Bungi" >Subject: What would you do? >Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:10:52 -0700 > >Ten days ago I made a house call to close the deal on a stained glass >window. Seemed like a sure sale. Everything went well until the end. >When I quoted my price I was told that they would have to get back to >me. > >A few minutes ago the homeowner was in and said that they had a couple >of other bids that were lower than mine and would I lower my price. >They did not give me any idea of the other design or the price. I >politely declined and recommended they go with the low bid(s). > >So, what would you do? I know that if I lowered my bid I would resent >doing the job. I've been down that road before and do not like it. Bob > >Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 >Think glass: have class. > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 07:41:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:22:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: hotmail.com!katmath From: "Kathy Mather" To: ktjude@vvm.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: scrap glass Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 06:21:20 PDT Message-ID: <1999Apr7.132120.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all, When I started doing stained glass, the gentleman that I bought my supplies from alway gave me scrapes of glass for those small areas in a pattern that otherwiss I would have had to buy a whole sheet for. He saved me a fair amount of money over the course of a few years and kept me coming back to his shop even though there were other places that I could have gone. Along with the glass went his advice and expertise, and even though I never took a class from him, he would sit with me and help me with whatever problem that I was trying to work out. He is the only reason that I am still doing glass. Ok, that's enough from me, Kathy >From: judy novak >To: "glass@bungi.com" >Subject: scrap glass >Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 18:27:29 -0500 > > Digging out scrap glass to sell to students and repeating the >process........ > >I thought I would share our use of 'scrap glass'. >We put the usable student scrap glass (they are given all the needed >glass for their first project with the cost of the class - no matter how >much they break incorrectly) into bins where we keep our scrap glass and >the students may get their choice of glass from the bins to make >additional 'sun catcher' patterns they wish to make outside of class for >extra practice for $2.00 including 2 copies of a suncatcher pattern of >their choice. They may purchase as many of these "packages" as they >choose. >The smaller pieces are placed into large plastic tubs with lids and >donated to the art departments of local schools. They really seem to >enjoy it and they make great stuff with it! >This works for us........ keeps us happy and we sleep good at night! Ah, >nothing like a good nights sleep! > >judy n > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 08:41:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:34:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: copying patterns Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:40:31 +0000 Message-ID: <199904071433.KAA28587@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > sell. Finnally the question what is the hobbiest to do when the > studio/shop won't sell or help the hobbiest get this pattern?? Punt? No, seriously, you could take a good, stare at the pattern, commit it to memory, go home and draw it yourself. It'd be a great learning experience ... and you'd *own the pattern. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 09:11:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:34:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What would I do? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:40:31 +0000 Message-ID: <199904071433.KAA28586@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > respects and appreciates bartering as an art form. This does not > mean that one has to lower their prices during the barter. If you > believe in yourself and your product, then when the customer wants > you to lower the price, what they may truly want you to do, is > educate them as to why your product is worth the extra dollar. Note worth considering: Most cities and states inviting bids on a project will throw *out the highest and lowest bids, since it's assumed the highest is gouging (charging too much) and the lowest might have shaved profits so closely that they might go out of business before the contract's completed. It's possible that taking low bid is a bad idea, therefore, not to mention that it's OKAY to make a profit ... in fact, you HAVE to make a profit to stay in business (unless you're non-profit) Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 09:13:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:45:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bugformance.com!bugs From: To: Subject: Reduce Your Debt, Increase Cash Flow Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 02:36:13 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Creditors calling...Bills stacking up? It happens to the best businesses, but we can help! We contact your creditors so they stop calling you, & negotiate your debts down to manageable terms to repair your credit and restore your financial health. We can even help you obtain financing for steady cash flow, regardless of credit or business history. Start concentrating on making your business prosper instead of worrying about paying your bills. Carta Finance will make it easy for you. Call us: 208-687-6262 Visit http://www.cartafinance.com or Mailto:cartafinance@apexmail.com ==================================================== Under Bill s.1618 TITLE III passed by the 105th U.S. Congress this letter can not be considered spam as long as we include: Contact information & a Remove Link For Removal:MAILTO:REMOVE@NEW4UTODAY.COM ==================================================== ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 09:50:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:33:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!vlg From: "Vincent LaGreca" To: "Bob E Duchesneau" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: What would you do? Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:15:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.7150.0> Precedence: bulk Only you can determine how you will price your work. I can only speak for myself, but a lot has to be based on how busy or well you are doing. If you find that you are not getting enough work to be make being in business profitable then perhaps you could adjust your prices. Personally I try to negotiate for everything. Money is not the issue, it's the GAME I love. I have found through experience that most things are negotiable and depend on timing as well as quality. For example contractors quote differently when they are slow then when they are busy. Buying a Harley is cheaper in the winter in the northeast then in the summer and the same applies for boats etc. I just got estimates for stone work for my home, the contractor I am going with was smart enough to give me two quotes, one for now and a cheaper one for August when he slows down. My point is that you if you are successful and getting enough work at your price level then don't cut your prices if not you need to reevaluate your business plan. The artist that made the low bid may not be less talented than you, just hungrier. Ciao, Vic -----Original Message----- From: Bob E Duchesneau To: Bungi Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 6:53 PM Subject: What would you do? >Ten days ago I made a house call to close the deal on a stained glass >window. Seemed like a sure sale. Everything went well until the end. >When I quoted my price I was told that they would have to get back to >me. > >A few minutes ago the homeowner was in and said that they had a couple >of other bids that were lower than mine and would I lower my price. >They did not give me any idea of the other design or the price. I >politely declined and recommended they go with the low bid(s). > >So, what would you do? I know that if I lowered my bid I would resent >doing the job. I've been down that road before and do not like it. Bob > >Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 >Think glass: have class. > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 10:17:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:57:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!MD6868 From: MD6868@aol.com To: gjr@bungi.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Off to Las Vegas Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:54:15 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr7.155415.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Folks, I know it's last minute, but I had to cancel my plans to go to Vegas, as we planned a visit right after, with one of my military kids, whose duty schedule has been altered because of the Kosovo refugee thing (eastern europeans to Guantanamo Bay Cuba?),and we have to leave three days earlier. I prepaid for two seats at a Fri Am business seminar, and one seat at a Sat Am advanced leading class. Since there are no refunds after 3/5.Can anyone use these seats/passes, free of charge? I am assuming that the show company would allow this? Hate to see this wasted, let me know, if anyone can use them. Richard Glassics Art Glass Valencia, Ca. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 10:28:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:37:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: scrap glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:44:58 +0000 Message-ID: <199904071537.LAA00437@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > He saved me a fair amount of money over the course of a few > years and kept me coming back to his shop even though there were > other places that I could have gone. Now there's a fellow with the right idea. "Whatever as ye sow, so shall ye reap," I think it goes. A big difference from treating the customers badly: "If it weren't for the customers, this'd be a good business" is all too often the attitude. Once is too often. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 10:48:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:45:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tir.com!jazzykid From: "jazzykid" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Miracle Mud II Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:44:44 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.44444.0> Precedence: bulk I emailed the Miracle Mud people and this was their reply. For those that might be interested. Miracle Mudd is sold in quantity, only to qualified distributors. Those distributors are: Lincoln Distributors, Art Glass House, Artisans Wholesale & Sunshine Glassworks. We do not sell it retail, or in any quantity other than six case minimums. Jill Medlyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 10:56:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:54:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: "Albert Lewis" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: What would I do?/bartering Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:52:43 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.25243.0> Precedence: bulk General rule for bartering is a "retail value" for "retail value" Costs and labor should not be compared for un-like products and services. What you pay for that service or item in a store tends to set the value. If you have a chance to "barter".......give the VERY best you can do for the VERY best you can get (or need). I have been bartering for the past 18+ years for my stuff. Some were necessities and other stuff banal and or impulse items......I usually look for the best (my judgement) of what I (I always includes my wife getting first choice) like. Most of the "junk-art-craft-stuff" I own I would NOT have PURCHASED..........but do indeed enjoy having them. Most of the shades I have traded to others are still captives. As an aside, I have never seen a hearse go by with a U-Haul attached, nor are there pockets in a shroud. So much for my trinkets/treasures. enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com Elaine and Howard best lamps on the "net": http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 11:12:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:58:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Light Box Diagram and Instructions Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:54:34 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr7.165434.0> Precedence: bulk Hello, I want to let all who requested light box instructions know that I have not forgotten you. I have your addresses and am ready to send instructions as soon as I can figure out why my scanner isn't scanning. Sorry for the delay, but they WILL be coming. If you are in a big hurry, send me your snail mail address and I will snail mail them to you. Once again, sorry for the delay. Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 11:32:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:15:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Linseed oil, was Re: nice site-----------oops Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:14:08 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr7.17148.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/6/99 8:35:48 PM, GreerStudios@compuserve.com wrote: >My >guess is your allergic to the linseed oil... it's quite common among oil >painters. I second that. My mom started out as an oil painter and had to give it up when we moved away from sunny southern California where she could paint outside or with the windows wide open. She actually passed out a couple of times from the fumes. (She's now a fiber artist). I'd say go get yourself one of those organic vapor canister filter masks, post haste! Sparks (who still thinks linseed oil smells like home, but then so does motor oil, thanks to all the greasemonkeys in the family) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 11:45:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:16:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What would I do? Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:14:12 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr7.171412.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/7/99 9:18:23 AM, cpjaram@7cities.net wrote: >By the way, Wal-mart does barter...they will match any other merchant's >price. But it really doesn't apply here...art is different. Of course not. The only thing Wal-Mart has in common with art is the last 3 letters! Sparks, off to the Chihuly show at the Delaware Art Museum ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 12:07:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:51:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Mynah Bird Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:47:41 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr7.174741.0> Precedence: bulk Thank you all who helped me find photos of the mynah bird. I now have enough to draw a decent bird. I really appreciate your effort and thoughtfulness. Will let you know how it turns out and what she thinks about it. Planning on trying to get it to rock back and forth on a perch. Wish me luck! Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 12:21:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:03:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: "Bob E Duchesneau" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: rambling to negotiating Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:55:11 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.35511.0> Precedence: bulk I truly AGREE..........USUALLY there is no bottom price and the fun is in the negotiating not the BUYING. I used to be a garage to garage wholesaler, IE peddler (wagon jobber) and I deeply enjoyed the "wheeling and dealing" involved in getting into a new account or wresting it from an established jobber. I ENJOY a hearty give and take with my product, which included (long time ago) cold canvassing Rodeo Drive, Pasadena, and SF and a few other "posh" areas. The ethnic make up was of people whose heritage was bargaining (as is mine) and we all "got into the spirit" of negotiating. Sold a lot of expensive shades for MONEY now.....promises later! Spent a few weeks in the desert southwest (our country) and even found places to negotiate for Indian items, (made by them but not sold by them). I found a few "cousins" and they seemed to miss playing the game. Also have been to Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Greece and Spain and Mexico and had some "very" spirited bargaining and many shopkeepers offered refreshments and seemed quite pleased by the game played by an "American". The seller always has the option to "just say no", as the buyer has the choice to walk away.......... I never do anything out of desperation, neither buy or sell. I used to also do a guest "speak" for the local SBA on the "art of negotiation" (my terminology). It went over well and I do believe a few students actually learned a few techniques from both sides of the negotiations. One of my goals is to deal on a Saturn.....I really want to see if the price is rigid......The dealing will be on a valueless trade-in... a 1983 Toyota, rusty and with 179,000 miles on it........should be worth at least $2,500 as a trade in (ha ha). enjoy (if you want to).............H weaver51@teleport.com Elaine and Howard best lamps on the "net": http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 12:51:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:07:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: "jazzykid" Subject: Re: Miracle Mud II Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:12:02 +0000 Message-ID: <199904071804.OAA02819@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > I emailed the Miracle Mud people and this was their reply. For > those that might be interested. Oh, heck. What's this "miracle mud" agan? I suspect it's dirt-in-a-box, something one can do oneself, but it would lack labels and packaging at 1/100th of the cost. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 12:57:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:22:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "glass bungi com" Subject: Re: scrap glass Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:20:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.102021.0> Precedence: bulk Kathy, And you know what that bit of glass and glass talk that he gave you, came back to him 10 fold. You both benifited from the arangement. Sounds like a good retailer to me. Linda Jo -----Original Message----- From: Kathy Mather To: ktjude@vvm.com ; glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 10:40 AM Subject: Re: scrap glass >Hi all, > When I started doing stained glass, the gentleman that I bought my >supplies from alway gave me scrapes of glass for those small areas in >a pattern that otherwiss I would have had to buy a whole sheet for. >He saved me a fair amount of money over the course of a few years >and kept me coming back to his shop even though there were other >places that I could have gone. > Along with the glass went his advice and expertise, and even though >I never took a class from him, he would sit with me and help me with >whatever problem that I was trying to work out. He is the only reason >that I am still doing glass. > Ok, that's enough from me, > Kathy > > >>From: judy novak >>To: "glass@bungi.com" >>Subject: scrap glass >>Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 18:27:29 -0500 >> >> Digging out scrap glass to sell to students and repeating the >>process........ >> >>I thought I would share our use of 'scrap glass'. >>We put the usable student scrap glass (they are given all the needed >>glass for their first project with the cost of the class - no matter >how >>much they break incorrectly) into bins where we keep our scrap glass >and >>the students may get their choice of glass from the bins to make >>additional 'sun catcher' patterns they wish to make outside of class >for >>extra practice for $2.00 including 2 copies of a suncatcher pattern >of >>their choice. They may purchase as many of these "packages" as they >>choose. >>The smaller pieces are placed into large plastic tubs with lids and >>donated to the art departments of local schools. They really seem to >>enjoy it and they make great stuff with it! >>This works for us........ keeps us happy and we sleep good at night! >Ah, >>nothing like a good nights sleep! >> >>judy n >> >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 13:15:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:25:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "glass bungi com" Subject: Re: Miracle Mud II Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:23:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.102347.0> Precedence: bulk Jill, It worked good I don't have any complaint and my retail guy carries it. Give it a try. Just ask your retailer to get some next time they order from the wholesale hosue. Linda Jo -----Original Message----- From: jazzykid To: Bungi Date: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 1:48 PM Subject: Miracle Mud II >I emailed the Miracle Mud people and this was their reply. For those that >might be interested. > >Miracle Mudd is sold in quantity, only to qualified distributors. Those >distributors are: Lincoln Distributors, Art Glass House, Artisans Wholesale >& >Sunshine Glassworks. We do not sell it retail, or in any quantity other than >six case minimums. > >Jill Medlyn > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 13:32:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:02:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What would I do? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:09:14 +0000 Message-ID: <199904071901.PAA03867@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Of course not. The only thing Wal-Mart has in common with art is the > last 3 letters! Well said. Biz is biz, whether it's Walmar or Moi, Inc. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 13:55:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:17:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pobox.com!Northernlights From: "Northernlights (Tracy Reitmann)" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Scrap Glass Auction Update Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 14:17:18 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.91718.0> References: <<199904071537.LAA00437@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Organization: http://members.tripod.com/Northernlights/index.html Precedence: bulk Looks like she's asking $39.00 for 5 pounds of glass with the buyer to pay shipping costs....just FYI! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 14:40:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:14:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bungi list... Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:14:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.12145.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Albert, The first time I downloaded the Bungi list everything went fine but the last update did not take....can you steer me to site...all previous e-mails of bungi have been deleted ....thanks for your time ...take care, Abbie in Va ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 15:03:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:17:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Miracle Mud II Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:24:20 +0000 Message-ID: <199904072016.QAA05229@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Albert...What is your problem??? We have been using MM for a long > time and have no complaints..It is not dirt... Its a very good > product...Sometimes I just can not understand your outlook??? T'was a joke, Walter. Mud .. dirt .. just add water? Still don't know what it is, where it's from. Vic gave me a URL, but it was broken. Still looking forward to more info. My outlook? Geez, it's around here somewhere. Lemmee look. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 15:10:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:20:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval From: Richard LaVal To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: lead stretcher Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 19:54:26 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990406195426.007d2af0@pop.racsa.co.cr> References: <<1999Apr3.64131.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi All, Someone suggested this a year or so ago, and I have had mine there ever since...works pretty well, if you get the teeth well engaged before you pull. Meg At 12:41 PM 4/3/1999 -0600, you wrote: >Linda Jo, > >Try hanging it on your rafters. Make a frame of 2x4s connected to to the >rafters at a comfortable height, attach it. Once attached you can pull down >instead of horizontally. I've been planning on trying this myself. Seems >like it would be safer also. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Linda Jo Letscher >To: bungi.com >Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 4:08 PM >Subject: lead stretcher > > >>I don't seem to have an area in my garage/studio to put the holding end of >>my lead stretcher. I tried on my new workbench but when I start to pull I >>move the workbench. >>So then I took it out on a flower bed that is brick and the small lip on >the >>stretche is enough to grab and pull but if I even give it the least little >>angle up off it comes. So do any of you have a suggestion where to put it? >>What I did do was I screwed it to a big tree in my front yard for now. I >am >>using vise grips for the other end which works ok, sometimes it bites a >>little hard into the lead and breaks but oh well...!! >>Linda Jo >> >> >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > RICHARD AND MEG LAVAL Apdo 24-5655 Monteverde COSTA RICA PHONE 645-5052 or 645-5419 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 15:32:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:49:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: net-magic.net!tcn From: tcn@net-magic.net (Boatwright, Walter) To: "glass bungi com" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Miracle Mud II Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:55:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.125551.0> Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: Linda Jo Letscher To: glass bungi com Date: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 4:21 PM Subject: Re: Miracle Mud II >Jill, > >It worked good I don't have any complaint and my retail guy carries it. >Give it a try. Just ask your retailer to get some next time they order from >the wholesale hosue. > >Linda Jo > >Ask your local retailer to stock MM...If not I'll be glad to ship you some Walter >-----Original Message----- >From: jazzykid >To: Bungi >Date: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 1:48 PM >Subject: Miracle Mud II > > >>I emailed the Miracle Mud people and this was their reply. For those that >>might be interested. >> >>Miracle Mudd is sold in quantity, only to qualified distributors. Those >>distributors are: Lincoln Distributors, Art Glass House, Artisans Wholesale >>& >>Sunshine Glassworks. We do not sell it retail, or in any quantity other >than >>six case minimums. >> >>Jill Medlyn >> >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 15:46:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:55:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Neat site if you got the time ;-) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:43:49 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.64349.0> Precedence: bulk http://www.mcphee.com/index0401.html Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 16:06:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:23:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Miracle Mud II Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:31:19 +0000 Message-ID: <199904072123.RAA06543@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Try http://home.earthlink.net/~asgitp/page4.htm Boy, there's not a whole lot of information there. I asked for an MSDS. We'll see. Thanks for the URL, Vic! Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 16:17:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:24:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Miracle Mud II Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:31:19 +0000 Message-ID: <199904072123.RAA06340@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > You are right in a way Albert. It is a carton of dry stuff and a > bottle of liquid. ... I would like to save where I can if anyone has a > way to make up the dry and just add linseed oil or whatever to the > dry that would be great. I'll see if I can't dig up a recipe for you. Naturally, putty's been being made for a few (hundred) years. It's only recently that someone had the idea to put it in a box for you. Next: potting clay in a box! Just add water, mix and go to the wedging table. Of course, true porcelain would take a couple of generations to age properly. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 16:23:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:02:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass during preganancy Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:12:03 +0000 Message-ID: <199904072004.QAA04910@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk Monona responds! ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- > Since I was speaking of Cummings Studios, which is located in > Massachusetts, it's that state's standard that governs... The OSHA standard was written in 1978 and even in the preamble, OSHA said that their standard was not protective against reproductive damage since the removal provisions only kick in at 50 ug/dL. OSHA said that a blood lead of 30 ug/dL was probably a reproductive hazard to both men and women. And remember, that was in 1978. Now they know so much more. OSHA wants to change the regulation to make it more protective. > ... isn't > surprising given the amount of restoration they do. Unzipping old > windows is the largest source of lead being tossed into the air. < That sure is the most hazardous part of stained glass restoration. > I tried to get hold of Monona Rossol to see whether 10 is a > reasonable number to expect even in major metro areas, but she > wasn't available when I called. I'll copy this to her to see what > she might have to say about that. < The Centers for Disease Control has tabulated the last few years of adult blood lead test data and they now say that 0-10 ug/dL is the new "normal" for adults and that the mean average blood lead in non-lead working adults country wide is 2.1 ug/dL. I live in an old (as you know Albert) apartment in a part of the city that never sleeps and my blood lead is usually around 3 ug/dL. If I can do it, anyone can. Monona ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 16:35:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:41:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "jazzykid" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Miracle Mud II Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:39:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.133951.0> Precedence: bulk Yes, but what is IN Miracle Mudd? I'm not using it to cement my windows unless I know the ingredients are archival. Does it contain Portland cement and= plaster of Paris? Does anyone know? Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 16:52:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:41:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:MD6868@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Off to Las Vegas Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:39:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.133955.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:MD6868@aol.com > I prepaid for two seats at a Fri Am business seminar, and one seat at a S= at Am advanced leading class. Since there are no refunds after 3/5.Can anyon= e = use these seats/passes, free of charge? < That's awfully generous of you, Richard. Hope someone can take advantage= of such a great opportunity. best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 17:33:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:47:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Albert Lewis" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Miracle Mud II Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:45:43 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.144543.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Albert Lewis" > > Albert...What is your problem??? We have been using MM for a long > time and have no complaints..It is not dirt... Its a very good > product...Sometimes I just can not understand your outlook??? = T'was a joke, Walter. Mud .. dirt .. just add water? Still = don't know what it is, where it's from. Vic gave me a URL, but it was = broken. Still looking forward to more info. < Seems to me I am asking the same questions.... why? Because I build pric= ey windows and I better know that the ingredients of my windows are gonna outlive me= ! = What the heck IS Miracle Mudd? What is in it? Just answer that question, and I'l= l be able to tell you if it's something a professional would use on one of their commission= s. I don't = understand the hostility here. We're just being responsible merchants an= d craftsmen, that's all. Anyone who cares a shred about preservation asks these questions. Best regards, Dani Greer www.igga.org/greer/ "Craft is just art that has to work for a living." ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 17:41:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:57:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , Subject: Re: What would you do? Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:56:32 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.85632.0> Precedence: bulk >>Bob, I think you made the right choice. They may not have even had other bids. Just trying to get the lowest price.<< Many, many thanks for all the inputs I have received. I think the above sums it up best. The potential clients do not in any way lack for money judging by their home, furnishings and cars. Begining to wonder if one or both are lawyers. What bothers me about the whole thing is that there was no hint that there would be other bids sort. They then said that they had two bids from a nearby town. I know the only two stained glass people there. One would not likely have bid on the job and if he did his price would have been much higher. The other person likely would have bid lower but they IMO are not up to a window of this nature. I like to barter but like to know when I am doing so. The bid I gave was a fair one and will not be changed. Should they come back I think I will take the job. No need to cut off my nose to spite my face. Bob Ps: Off to Vegas in the morning. Staying at Cricus Circus RV lot. Will wear bungi cord when I do the Convention Center Saturday. Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 17:41:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:48:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Richard LaVal Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: lead stretcher Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:45:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.144546.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Richard LaVal >f you get the teeth well engaged before you pull. Meg< Also clamp the lead in so the heart is facing up... it'll grip better. Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 18:04:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:28:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "Albert Lewis" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Miracle Mud II Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:23:18 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.152318.0> Precedence: bulk I am interested to see what this is. We mix our own cement and it is stored in two parts. I am curious as to what makes this a Miracle. If anyone happens to catch the Discovery Channel Giveme Shelter program. The mansion of the beach at Loveladies is one of our clients. What a house. It is not to be missed. We have another house in Philadelphia that should be on there soon. my best, pj (waiting on word of Miracle Mud....Paul asked if it was a facial cream) Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis To: glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 7:21 PM Subject: RE: Miracle Mud II > >> Try http://home.earthlink.net/~asgitp/page4.htm > >Boy, there's not a whole lot of information there. I asked for an >MSDS. We'll see. Thanks for the URL, Vic! > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 18:17:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:39:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: Gloria and George <3hounds@usaor.net> To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: what's up ??? Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 07:32:22 -0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.63222.0> Precedence: bulk I Miss My Bungi !!! Have I been accidently disconnected ?? If so, please reinstate me. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 18:38:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:58:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: bungi--Richard's LV tickets Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:12:45 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.131245.0> Precedence: bulk I will forward your generous offer to my other traveling companions. I am in class all day Friday. Since I will be signing off until Monday, I won't be able to get back to you....I am assuming that if one of the other glass-alcoholics that are obsesssing with me this weekend, wants it, they can just show with a copy of your email. ** I'll advise that someone else may claim it. First come, first served?! ** ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 19:03:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:04:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: What I would do? Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:22:55 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.132255.0> Precedence: bulk I am truly embarrassed...I meant dickering or haggling....not bartering! God english is a hard language. I guess Wal-Mart doesn't barter...(sonsa, sonsa, sonsa *translation is fool ...she says to herself!) ps I will put bungi.com on my name badge for LV. Please say hi. cj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 20:05:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:01:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Bob E Duchesneau" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: What would you do? Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:00:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.18012.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Bob E Duchesneau" > Should they come back I think I will take the job. No need to cut off my nose to spite my face. Bob< You got the right attitude, Bob! Have fun in Vegas.... Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 7 23:35:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:42:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What would you do? Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:41:28 -0700 Message-ID: <199904080541.WAA25641@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >What bothers me about the whole thing is that there was no hint that >there would be other bids sort. I'm with you on that one, Bob. I think it's only fair that people let you know that they're shopping around. My price doesn't change, I just don't invest much time in design work until I'm sure I've got the job. I also want to make sure the the client needs to understand they're going to be comparing apples and oranges if the designs are different degrees of complexity and if one design is lead, the other foil. >I like to barter but like to know when I am doing so. Unlike several others who've posted to bungi, bartering is something I have a huge amount of difficulty handling. When someone comes to me and wants to cut a deal, I find it very difficult to stay mentally present and pleasant since I feel personally attacked. I feel that they are devaluing my work and my skills, accusing me of unfair pricing, or in some way making a personal criticism. To me, this is the absolute worst part of my stained glass work, and it always turns out these are folk with money doing it...I dunno for the sport I guess. For me, being accosted like this is far worse than mudding, which I think won the "least favorite part of stained glass" title a few weeks ago. I've appreciated the comments on this thread...they've given me a new way of looking at people's tendency to bully around money...maybe some people are just doing what comes naturally to them rather than taking a pot shot at me. I will try and look at this as an opportunity for education rather than mentally putting up the protective gauntlets. Thanks. C. PS. While I don't lower my prices for these clients, I usually lose these sales because I find it almost impossible to be graceful under this kind of pressure...and these folk don't want to hear "no". Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 00:09:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:27:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!"gunnx4@" From: Suzanne <"gunnx4@"@ix.netcom.com> To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: oops! Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 01:34:14 -0500 Message-ID: <199904080627.BAA22706@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> Precedence: bulk I have had computer problems all evening after having a power outage. Had to uninstall all my online software, and reinstall... well...the good news is it works now...the bad news for me is I lost everything in my address book. So, if anyone cares for me to have their email address...please email me. :o( Tulsa Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 00:35:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:30:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!"gunnx4@" From: Suzanne <"gunnx4@"@ix.netcom.com> To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: never mind the oops! Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 01:36:11 -0500 Message-ID: <199904080629.BAA22844@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> Precedence: bulk Im sorry, you guys...but please dont email me after all. :o) I have 700 some odd messages in my box, so most of your addresses are probably there! Thanks anyway! T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 00:46:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:45:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!"gunnx4@" From: Suzanne <"gunnx4@"@ix.netcom.com> To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: message/rfc822 Subject: [Fwd: would you pass this onto to bungi. Thanks] Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 01:51:09 -0500 Message-ID: <199904080644.BAA24025@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> Precedence: bulk Return-Path: Received: from nbserver.netbridge.net (mail.npt.clipper.net [216.116.36.12]) by ixmail6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7/(NETCOM v1.01)) with SMTP id PAA09296; for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:19:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [216.116.36.198] by nbserver.netbridge.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id oa496822 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:18:06 -0700 Message-ID: <370BDB1C.1D78@netbridge.net> Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 15:24:28 -0700 From: Shirley Balloch Reply-To: balloch@netbridge.net Organization: Maiden Concepts X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-nnie30 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com Subject: would you pass this onto to bungi. Thanks References: <37007DF5.7C26@ix.netcom.com> <3702BD45.51A3@netbridge.net> <3702BEEA.18B1@ix.netcom.com> <3702C072.461D@netbridge.net> <3702C242.7C99@ix.netcom.com> <3702C44E.4F0B@netbridge.net> <3702C514.79AB@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com id BAA24025 This article is directed at smokers, but I thought it might be food for thought for us solderers. Vitamins Could Reduce Lead Levels in Smokers' Blood=20 April 7, 1999 (NYT Syndicate) - A new study suggests that vitamin supplements can reduce the elevated levels of lead found in the blood of heavy smokers.=20 Earl B. Dawson and colleagues from the department of obstetrics and gynecology at the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston measured the blood-lead levels of 75 men, ages 20 to 30, who smoked at least one pack of cigarettes a day. In an article published in the current issue of the Journal of the American College of Nutrition, the researchers reported that none of the participants had toxic levels of lead in their blood. However, some participants had lead concentrations above the national average for healthy adults and may have had mild symptoms associated with this higher level.=20 The researchers divided the participants into three groups and provided each with a four-week supply of vitamins or dummy vitamins. One group received a daily dose of 200 milligrams of vitamin C, a second received a daily dose of 1,000 milligrams of vitamin C and a third received the placebo.=20 After four weeks, vitamin C levels had dipped slightly for participants on placebo pills and had more than doubled for both groups taking the supplements. When researchers looked at lead, levels had slipped slightly in the placebo group and the lower-dose vitamin group. In the group taking the 1,000-milligram dose, blood-lead concentrations plunged by 81 percent in one week and continued to decline slightly for the rest of the study period.=20 The results of the study confirm previous reports that vitamin C reduces lead levels by decreasing its absorption in the intestines.=20 According to a 1997 government report, even mildly elevated blood-lead levels are associated with an increase in blood pressure. In high concentrations, lead exposure can damage the heart, brain, liver and kidneys. In children, moderate increases in lead levels have been linked to a decline in intelligence test scores.=20 But vitamin C may offer other advantages to smokers besides reducing blood-lead levels. In a 1996 article published in the journal Circulation, researchers observed that injecting chronic smokers with vitamin C neutralized oxidants, chemicals found in cigarette smoke that have been associated with narrowed arteries that lead to stroke and heart attack.=20 According to one of that study's researchers, Dr. Thomas Munzel of the University of Freiburg in Germany, injections of vitamin C helped smokers' clogged arteries to widen, lessening the risks of heart attack and stroke.=20 However, since the release of the Munzel report, the effects of vitamin C pills in smokers have been hotly contested, with some doctors suggesting that any oral form of the supplement would be insufficient to effectively widen narrowed arteries over time.=20 According to Darrel C. Bjornson, an associate professor of pharmaco-epidemiology at Drake University in Des Moines, Iowa, the jury is still out when it comes to evaluating the therapeutic effects of vitamin C in smokers.=20 In an interview, Bjornson said it would be difficult to evaluate the effects lowered lead levels had on the health of heavy smokers.=20 "Taking daily vitamin supplements of 1,000 milligrams won't cause any harm and may have some therapeutic effects," he said. "But it is difficult to measure the extent of those benefits. We do know that vitamin C is not a panacea and will not cancel out the damage caused by smoking. The best advice for smokers remains the same: Quit."=20 Journal of the American College of Nutrition (1999;18:166-170)=20 Copyright 1999 The New York Times Syndicate. All rights reserved.=20 Help | About Us | Register | Change Profile | Contact Us | Advertising | Professional Network=20 =A91996-1999 Inteli-Health, Inc. All rights reserved. Al= l information is intended for your general knowledge only and is not a substitute for medical advice or treatment for specific medical conditions. You should seek prompt medical care for any specific health issues and consult your physician before starting a new fitness regimen. Use of this online service is subject to the disclaimer and the terms and conditions . "InteliHealth" and "The Trusted Source" are trademarks of Inteli-Health, Inc. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 02:03:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 01:09:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: hotmail.com!winstonga From: "Winston Winston" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: What would I do? Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 01:09:48 PDT Message-ID: <1999Apr8.8948.0> Precedence: bulk One of the emails on this particular thread said that they would not buy a Tiffany lamp that was made with spectrum glass. I am new to stained glass work and live in an area that does not offer classes and I have not found a local expert yet. Why would you not buy a lamp made with Spectrum glass? I bought a Glass pattern magazine recently and wanted to make a pattern that called for Chicago glass. I called several of the mail order places, but they had a small collection of Chicago glass and could not help me. I assume that Chicago is a company that makes glass. How would you rank order the various glass manufacturers? I am not sure that my "newbie" eyes would see a difference in the glass. I have only made a couple of pieces, suffered minor cuts-so far, and have been really enjoying myself. I did take a beginners class, but I had to drive a couple of hours to Salt Lake City. Buck _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 04:09:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 03:23:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: Winston Winston Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: What would I do? Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 06:05:24 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr7.23524.0> References: <<1999Apr8.8948.0@[207.126.97.2]>> Organization: SBWSA Precedence: bulk Winston, I've seen lamps that use Spectrum along with art glass that I really love. You might like to try Armstrong glass. They have some wonderful looking glass that would give great effects in lamp shades IMHO. Not as expensive either as other art glass. Carol T Winston Winston wrote: > One of the emails on this particular thread said that they would not > buy a Tiffany lamp that was made with spectrum glass. I am new to > stained glass work and live in an area that does not offer classes > and I have not found a local expert yet. Why would you not buy a > lamp made with Spectrum glass? I bought a Glass pattern magazine > recently and wanted to make a pattern that called for Chicago glass. > I called several of the mail order places, but they had a small > collection of Chicago glass and could not help me. I assume that > Chicago is a company that makes glass. How would you rank order the > various glass manufacturers? I am not sure that my "newbie" eyes > would see a difference in the glass. I have only made a couple of > pieces, suffered minor cuts-so far, and have been really enjoying > myself. I did take a beginners class, but I had to drive a couple of > hours to Salt Lake City. > Buck > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 05:09:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 04:28:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: nbnet.nb.ca!mschut From: mschut@nbnet.nb.ca (mschut) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Stained Glass during Pregnancy Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 07:12:45 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990408071245.21d71712@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca> Precedence: bulk Many thanks to all who have responded to my inquiry. My wife and I have talked it over and as it turns out, she would rather take up quilting :-) and she wants me to try it to. She says that it would probably be very relaxing. just kidding. Because of all of your input, she has decided to put the stained glass aside for now and try a few patio stones. I haven't tried these yet and they look like a lot of fun. Does anyone know of any websites which may give insight on how to put these together, and can you make your own molds or are you better to buy the plastic ones in the shops? Would a teflon baking pan do the same thing? Once again thanks to everyone for their input. This is a very informative list with very informative people. Have a great day. Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & ????? Schut Moncton, New Brunswick ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 05:42:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 04:57:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Glass Quality was: What would I do? Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:26:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.32620.0> Precedence: bulk I am repost this message from Buck so it would not get lost in another thread. I too am interested in Buck's question. How about it Howard, Albert.....others.... Linda -----Original Message----- From: Winston Winston [SMTP:winstonga@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 4:10 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: What would I do? One of the emails on this particular thread said that they would not buy a Tiffany lamp that was made with spectrum glass. I am new to stained glass work and live in an area that does not offer classes and I have not found a local expert yet. Why would you not buy a lamp made with Spectrum glass? I bought a Glass pattern magazine recently and wanted to make a pattern that called for Chicago glass. I called several of the mail order places, but they had a small collection of Chicago glass and could not help me. I assume that Chicago is a company that makes glass. How would you rank order the various glass manufacturers? I am not sure that my "newbie" eyes would see a difference in the glass. I have only made a couple of pieces, suffered minor cuts-so far, and have been really enjoying myself. I did take a beginners class, but I had to drive a couple of hours to Salt Lake City. Buck ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 07:07:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 06:02:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Glass Quality was: What would I do? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:09:18 +0000 Message-ID: <199904081301.JAA17369@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > How about it > Howard, Albert.....others.... > One of the emails on this particular thread said that they would not > buy a Tiffany lamp that was made with spectrum glass. Okay, my 2c worth: It's a subjective decision, one that each person would have to make. By my lights, though, no pun intended, Spectrum's got less "character" than other more textured glass like Uroboros, Chicago Art Glass and so on. Since a lamp's glass functions (or should) both in reflective light (when it's off) and in transmitted light (when it's on), glass that's livelier, more interesting, and changes character in either case is to be preferred. Besides, one inspects "objects" more closely, since they're close at hand. A window usually contains much more glass than a lamp, so cost of glass is a serious consideration; a lamp uses less glass, but it should be of a higher quality for the reasons stated above. My reasons, admittedly. Spectrum Glass is "machine made," that is roll-fed and that's good for many applications: it's predictable, easy to cut, can be used to assemble vast areas of glass (like windows) but for those same reasons lacks the "life" and "character" of hand-cast glass, which Uroboros, Bullseye, Chicago Art Glass and glass from other manufacturers have. Hand cast glass is more difficult to deal with than rolled sheet, but not that difficult. Lamps that are made with it are richer in color and texture, giving clients their money's worth in pleasure and use. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 07:25:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 06:03:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Neat site if you got the time ;-) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:01:45 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr8.13145.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/7/99 5:47:37 PM, computerministry@unitytustin.org wrote: >http://www.mcphee.com/index0401.html HUH????????? This is what came up: Thank you for visiting the IRS Voluntary Audit Page By logging on to this page, you have volunteered to be one of the thousands of American taxpayers who are audited each year. Volunteering for an audit saves the IRS the time and expense of manually selecting auditees, and consequently saves your tax dollars too! =8-O I don't think so............................. Sorry, Uncle Sam, you'll have to catch me first! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 07:37:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 06:03:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: scrap glass, and keeping customers (and sometimes getting them Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:02:15 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr8.13215.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/7/99 12:33:12 PM, alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net wrote: >"If it weren't for the customers, this'd be a good >business" is all too often the attitude. Once is too often. Once I walked into a bank where, mounted next to each teller's window, was a plaque reading: "Customers are not an interruption of our work. They ARE our work." At the time, I was head teller at another bank, having to deal daily with two subordinates whose surly attitudes were prime examples of "what gives generation X a bad name." I wished to God I could put up one of those signs at each of their stations (or maybe tattoo it on their foreheads)...... I like the way Christie handles it when customers come in. She might be up to her elbows in something messy, or sitting behind the computer where she can barely be seen, and she may be having the Day From Hell, but as soon as anyone walks in the door, she always has a cheery "Hello....... If you have any questions about anything, please ask........" or something like that. You never know who's going to place a big ol' custom order after having "just wandered in off the street"................ Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 07:40:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 06:03:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What would I do?/bartering Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:02:21 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr8.13221.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/7/99 12:58:49 PM, weaver51@teleport.com wrote: >Most of the "junk-art-craft-stuff" I own I would NOT >have PURCHASED..........but do indeed enjoy having them. I'll admit I've actually bought a few pieces of "junk-art-craft-stuff"..... Those "guilty pleasures," those "hate-to-admit-I-love-it" things, ultimately feed your soul as much in their own way as the "real works of art" do! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 08:04:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 06:51:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [Fwd: would you pass this onto to bungi. Thanks] Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 06:50:14 -0700 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Thanks for that info. Cindy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 08:10:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:17:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What would I do? Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 15:14:02 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.16142.0> Precedence: bulk At 01:09 08/04/99 PDT, Winston wrote: >One of the emails on this particular thread said that they would not >buy a Tiffany lamp that was made with spectrum glass. I am new to >stained glass work and live in an area that does not offer classes >and I have not found a local expert yet. Why would you not buy a >lamp made with Spectrum glass? I think the point that was being made was that the cheap imported stained glass lamps made in the Far East or Mexico and sold in the USA and Europe in lighting shops etc are made mostly of "standard" Spectrum and Armstrong glass. Often you see many designs all using the same three or four colours of glass making them less interesting to the stained glass afficianado (sp?) who prefers the more interesting and dramatic look of the more handmade less regular glass such as Yough, Uroboros, Chicago, Bullseye etc etc. Many stained glass lampshade makers have found that to use the more unusual glass means they can compete on the quality and individuality of the shades rather than trying to come down to the low prices the imports sell for - which when you think that the workers in the factories may not be getting paid more than subsistence wages they cannot do. We often try to show customers that by using the more interesting (but more expensive) glass for, say, an intricate many pieced "Tiffany" lookalike shade will often result in the customer being willing to pay twice as much as if they used the more ordinary glass. This way the crafter can often obtain something like a living wage for the time spent, or at least get proportionally more profit even after accounting for the higher cost of materials. However there is nothing wrong with Spectrum glass. They offer a consistent and wide range of colours and textures and we think the glass is one of the easiest to learn to cut accurately on - so tend to steer our beginner students and customers to Spectrum for its cutability qualities. Elizabeth Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 08:35:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:04:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: NG: rambling to negotiating Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:45:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.5458.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Howard" >The dealing will be on a valueless trade-in... a 1983 Toyota, rusty and with 179,000 miles on it........should be worth at least $2,500= as a trade in (ha ha).< Man, I had my 1983 Toyota Corolla with 113,000 miles on it STOLEN while rehearsing a music gig. It was the BEST car I ever owned. I'm still sad over it. I would gladly give you $2,500 for your "worthless" 1983 Toyota. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 08:43:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:10:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:45:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.54511.0> Precedence: bulk Ranking of glass manufacturers, from low-end to high-end.... (remember, this is just my own judgement) Spectrum (too smooth & plastic looking, but I do use a lot of it) Visa & Pilkington (mostly textured clears; easy to cut; some excellent textures) Kokomo (sorry to offend anyone, but it looks flat & lifeless to me) Armstrong (tends to shatter when cutting, but more interesting to look at= than Spectrum) Wissmach (better cutting than Armstrong, more interesting textures) Bullseye (expensive, but very nice patterns/color combinations) Youghiogheny (I'm a BIG fan of this company; lots of great colors, very hard to cut though) Uroborus (expensive, but extremely interesting specialty glass) Lambert (very expensive, but each piece is like looking inside a dream) Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 08:50:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:11:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mpx.com.au!ktsplash From: "ktsplash" To: "Bungi List" Subject: Re: scrap glass and karma Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:19:34 +1000 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.81934.0> Precedence: bulk I couldn't agree more, Albert. I went in to pay my supplier the other day, asked for the total owing, and got told it was about $100 less than I'd expected. I thought they'd made a mistake and told them so. Sure enough, a little bit of checking and it was discovered that a keying entry had been made when I sent my last cheque. The owner, who was standing there while this was going on, ended up giving me a free pattern book, but even if he hadn't, I'd still be glad I told them. These guys give me excellent service, whether it's finding the perfect bit of glass or extending my payment term if I need it.....! They've always done the right thing by me, hurrah the good supplier, for all the great customers i may have in the future, the supplier makes my day. Katie. > >"Whatever as ye sow, so >shall ye reap," I think it goes. A big difference from treating the >customers badly: "If it weren't for the customers, this'd be a good >business" is all too often the attitude. Once is too often. > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 09:07:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:23:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: scrap glass, and keeping customers (and sometimes getting the Date: Thu Apr 8 08:21:49 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.55949.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE81D0.ED79C034 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Salesman also have to learn not to prejudge customers. I was shopping with a friend a few years back at her regular jewelry store. The new salesman behind the counter pawned us off on a coworker after suggesting we might be out of our price range. It seems sneakers, denim cut offs and a tank top did not fit his image of upscale clientele(pronounced big commission). He realized his mistake when the head jeweler/owner of the store came out, gave my friend a big hug and waited on her personally. The end result was the coworker got a nice commission and he got a pink slip. It seems most of the stores regulars did not fit this mans image of upscale. Nor did the salesman fit the owners idea that he should be selling both the high and low end merchandise. Vic M. vmodiano@ctronsoft.com -----Original Message----- From: Witchdoc3@aol.com [mailto:Witchdoc3@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 9:02 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: scrap glass, and keeping customers (and sometimes getting them In a message dated 4/7/99 12:33:12 PM, alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net wrote: >"If it weren't for the customers, this'd be a good >business" is all too often the attitude. Once is too often. Once I walked into a bank where, mounted next to each teller's window, was a plaque reading: "Customers are not an interruption of our work. They ARE our work." At the time, I was head teller at another bank, having to deal daily with two subordinates whose surly attitudes were prime examples of "what gives generation X a bad name." I wished to God I could put up one of those signs at each of their stations (or maybe tattoo it on their foreheads)...... I like the way Christie handles it when customers come in. She might be up to her elbows in something messy, or sitting behind the computer where she can barely be seen, and she may be having the Day From Hell, but as soon as anyone walks in the door, she always has a cheery "Hello....... If you have any questions about anything, please ask........" or something like that. You never know who's going to place a big ol' custom order after having "just wandered in off the street"................ Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE81D0.ED79C034 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: scrap glass, and keeping customers (and sometimes getting = them

Salesman also have to learn not to prejudge = customers.

I was shopping with a friend a few years back at her = regular jewelry store.
The new salesman behind the counter pawned us off on = a coworker after suggesting we might be out of our price range. It = seems sneakers, denim cut offs and a tank top did not fit his image of = upscale clientele(pronounced big commission).

He realized his mistake when the head jeweler/owner = of the store came out, gave my friend a big hug and waited on her = personally. The end result was the coworker got a nice commission and = he got a pink slip. It seems most of the stores regulars did not fit = this mans image of upscale. Nor did the salesman fit the owners idea = that he should be selling both the high and low end = merchandise.

Vic M.
vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com [mailto:Witchdoc3@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 9:02 AM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: scrap glass, and keeping customers (and = sometimes getting
them



In a message dated 4/7/99 12:33:12 PM, = alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net wrote:

>"If it weren't for the customers, this'd be = a good
>business" is all too often the attitude. = Once is too often.

Once I walked into a bank where, mounted next to each = teller's window, was a
plaque reading:

"Customers are not an interruption of our = work.
They ARE our work."

At the time, I was head teller at another bank, = having to deal daily with two
subordinates whose surly attitudes were prime = examples of "what gives
generation X a bad name." I wished to God I = could put up one of those signs
at each of their stations (or maybe tattoo it on = their foreheads)......

I like the way Christie handles it when customers = come in. She might be up to
her elbows in something messy, or sitting behind the = computer where she can
barely be seen, and she may be having the Day From = Hell, but as soon as
anyone walks in the door, she always has a cheery = "Hello....... If you have
any questions about anything, please = ask........" or something like that. You
never know who's going to place a big ol' custom = order after having "just
wandered in off the = street"................


Sparks

----
For subscription changes, please mail to: = glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      = please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE81D0.ED79C034-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 09:26:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:05:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Fw: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:52:24 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.05224.0> Precedence: bulk Hello All, This was a April Fool Page, if you follow the confirm, decline, or cancel buttons, it will take you to a companies page, where you can order a catalog that might have some stuff that could be useful to a glass artist... Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 07:35 AM Subject: Re: Neat site if you got the time ;-) | |In a message dated 4/7/99 5:47:37 PM, computerministry@unitytustin.org wrote: | |>http://www.mcphee.com/index0401.html | |HUH????????? This is what came up: | | Thank you for visiting the IRS Voluntary Audit Page | | By logging on to this page, you have volunteered to be one of | the thousands of American taxpayers who are audited each year. | Volunteering for an audit saves the IRS the time and expense | of manually selecting auditees, and consequently saves | your tax dollars too! | |=8-O I don't think so............................. Sorry, Uncle Sam, you'll |have to catch me first! | | |Sparks | |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 09:39:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:31:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Glass Quality was: What would I do? Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:26:26 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr8.152626.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/8/99 9:08:04 AM, alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net wrote: >Spectrum Glass is "machine made," that is roll-fed and that's good >for many applications: it's predictable, easy to cut, can be used to >assemble vast areas of glass (like windows) but for those same >reasons lacks the "life" and "character" of hand-cast glass, which >Uroboros, Bullseye, Chicago Art Glass and glass from other >manufacturers have. Hey!!!!!!!! I didn't see that before I sent my reply -- honest! Guess I've been hangin' out with the wrong people for too long Sparks (still trying to figure out what I can say about the Chihuly baskets exhibit that won't earn my posting a rating somewhere between PG-13 and NC-17) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 09:41:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:09:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What would I do? Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:06:35 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr8.15635.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/8/99 3:36:23 AM, winstonga@hotmail.com wrote: >Why would you not buy a >lamp made with Spectrum glass? Depends on the lamp. A "real Tiffany" style lamp requires glass with "character." It's a matter of texture, color, translucency/opalescence, thickness, all the things that make handmade "art glass" something close to a work of art in itself. Spectrum glass is machine-made for consistency of color, thickness, and "cuttability." It's great for beginners because it's so well-behaved, and pros (Bob Oddy and Ichiro Tashiro come to mind immediately) do some pretty amazing things with it, but a lot of people don't like it for lamps because it isn't "opalescent" -- that is to say, it doesn't diffuse the light the way some other glasses do -- it tends to show "hot spots"; it's either transparent or opaque, and Spectrum opaques are generally very "flat-looking." (OTOH, lamps are among the amazing things Ichiro Tashiro does with it; I suspect he's deliberately looking for a "flat" look in his work, which I'd characterize as equal parts of "traditional Japanese natural" and "stylized contemporary interpretation"..... must be a Zen thang.) >I bought a Glass pattern magazine >recently and wanted to make a pattern that called for Chicago glass. There's a good reason why so many designs call for specific kinds of glass. A high-end glass can be something approaching "an end in itself" in some designs -- the medium really is the message, maybe to a greater extent than in any other art form. Some people "design around" a piece of glass that "spoke to them." Substituting glass is a "black art" requiring an experienced eye and "feel" (see below). I suspect that if you make "the same thing" out of Spectrum, you'll be disappointed......... >I assume that >Chicago is a company that makes glass. Yup, their web site is at http://www.chicagoartglass.co m/index.html Delphi Stained Glass carries some Chicago glass: http://www.delphiglass.com/ and sells direct to the public. It's not cheap, around $15-$20 a square foot, but I'll bet it's worth it! (BTW, I've seen a "Chicago Art Glass" book at Borders. Lots of wonderful enormous off-the-wall modern windows etc. Once I and my wallet have recovered from buying the "Chihuly Baskets" book and the "River of Glass" video yesterday............) >I am not sure that my "newbie" eyes >would see a difference in the glass. Fear not, it won't take you long to be able not only to see the difference, but to *feel* the difference as well. One of the best things that ever happened to me was getting involved in that huge mosaic project, where we spent several weeks doing nothing but cutting and grinding 40,000+ mosaic tiles of all kinds of glass (and several more weeks working on the assembly and installation). The variety of (surface) textures and consistencies (physical properties) of glass equals the variety of colors. I was amazed at how some glass felt "soft" to the touch, some was hard and tough, some hard and brittle, some cut like butter in spite of being "hard" while some had a mind of its own, some felt almost "crumbly" in spite of being hard, some cut like "hard" glass but ground like "soft" glass, etc. etc. Glass is a truly sensuous material! >I did take a beginners class, but I had to drive a couple of >hours to Salt Lake City. Now that's either dedication or instanity! (I approve, whichever it is.) Anyhoo......... it's up to you what kind of glass you use for anything, but if you're going to put dozens or hundreds of hours into something that's going to live in your house (or someone else's) for decades, why not (assuming you can afford it) go for the glass that's going to send you into erotic meltdown every time you look at it? Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 09:52:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:33:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What would I do? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:40:27 +0000 Message-ID: <199904081532.LAA19073@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > However there is nothing wrong with Spectrum glass. > They offer a consistent and wide range of colours and textures and > we think the glass is one of the easiest to learn to cut accurately Oops! I didn't mean to imply that there's anything wrong with Spectrum glass, just that it has its uses and applications that (might be) are different than other glass. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 09:53:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:11:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: socent.org!atf From: "ATF Distribution Center-K. See" To: bungi , "glass@intrastar.net" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Smithsonian Craft Show plus Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 11:11:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.71120.0> Organization: SOC Enterprises Precedence: bulk two other shows in Virginia that are highlighted in today's Washington Post. Since some aren't going to Vegas here are some sites to learn from or even go to. Stuck at work on this beautiful spring day! They have a picture of "Robert Toensing's glass vessel uses a copper-foil technique from Louis Comfort Tiffany" here is the article http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1999-04/08/261l-040899-idx.html Does anyone know about this guy? and where I can find some more of his work? I tried searching but no luck so far. K See http://www.si.edu/youandsi/craftshow/start.htm http://www.artofglass.org/main.htm http://www.chrysler.org/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 10:07:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:51:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mpx.com.au!ktsplash From: "ktsplash" To: "Bungi List" Subject: Mermaid Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 01:48:26 +1000 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.114826.0> Precedence: bulk seen this page of women portrayed in glass? if not, check it out beautiful designs and future designs http://kaneida.home.texas.net/ be warned - husbands will be more appreciative of some of these designs than your garden variety federation style! and don't take your kids to this site! tut tut, that owner looks too young to be creating this sort of thing! on second thought... maybe age has something to do with it! ;-) Katie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 10:21:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:16:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: scrap glass, and keeping customers (and sometimes getti Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:22:07 +0000 Message-ID: <199904081614.MAA19287@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > seems sneakers, denim cut offs and a tank top did not fit his image > of upscale clientele(pronounced big commission). There's a famous story about Grace Slick (lead singer of the Jefferson Airplane at the time) during the '60s, walking into an auto showroom (BMWs, Mercedes, etc.) and the salesman giving her the cold shoulder, 'cause you KNOW how she was dressed! I'd love to have seen his face when she bought an $80,000 car (or something like that) and took the cash out of her purse. Someone *else got that commission. Prejudging clients, ain't good. Heck, I have a friend who's one of the heirs to the Xerox fortune. She has $5 million a year in disposable income, but you'd never know it to look at her. Dressed down? You bet. Regular ol' car? Uh-huh. Nice, salt-o-the-earth person. Yes to that, too. Salesmen would make a mistake in her case, too. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 10:36:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:30:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Stepping Stones,,, Just a bunch of links I looked at,,, Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:19:03 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.2193.0> Precedence: bulk Hello to whom ever it was that wanted to change over to stepping stones for the time being because of the baby coming. I did a search on SavySearch http://www.savvysearch.com/search And came up with the following links that I have looked at, and found a lot of good information. http://www.glass-stones.com/construction.html http://www.rebeccasgarden.com/howto/items/98step11.html http://www.rebeccasgarden.com/howto/items/98ston01.html http://www.colebrothers.com/stainedglass/ http://www.colebrothers.com/wwwboard/ http://www.walkons.com/ http://www.komaromi.com/wwwboard/statuary/messages/1218.html http://www.oncapecod.net/glassgraphics/ http://www.theperfectsolution.com/stasup.htm http://www.castlestainedglass.com/stepping.htm http://www.glass-stones.com/ http://www.vcn.com/~slvr/steppingstones.html http://www.papillonpublications.com/index.html http://www.aerovisions.com/mutti/stones.html http://glassicarts.com/stepping.htm http://www.rebeccasgarden.com/ Hope this helps ya all to get started, and good luck with the changing over from lead to cement, watch out for the lime, and them lungs and hands,,, Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 10:44:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:18:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!MD6868 From: MD6868@aol.com To: Witchdoc3@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What would I do?/bartering Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:16:24 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr8.161624.0> Precedence: bulk I couldn't agree more. My mother,was a great collector of "hate to admit I love it" junk crafts. If anyone at work was making anything, no matter how "tacky", Eunice would buy it, and always find a place for it. I know that stuff "fed her soul", as she was, in life, a remarkably kind and fun - loving person, but boy, some of that stuff!! Even now, when my wife and I see that stuff, she'll say,(in the So. California vernacular) Oh, My, God, wouldn't Eunice just love that stuff.. All craft work has a purpose, in my case, the "junk" stuff I see helps keep a good woman's memory alive for me. Richard Glassics Art Glass Valencia, Ca. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 10:49:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:44:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones From: "B. S. Jones" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: famous at last Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:47:18 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.144718.0> Precedence: bulk Famous at last (Well almost) Germain has put one of my pieces of work in the Bungi gallery http://aries27.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/glass/gallery/index.php3?state=gallery Brandon S. Jones ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 11:04:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:51:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'Christie A. Wood'" , Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:52:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.85251.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks, I printed that for future reference Linda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 11:21:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:02:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Glass Manufacturers Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:58:45 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <199904081701.MAA11568@relay.acns.nwu.edu> Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk I visited the Spectrum factory (in Woodinville, WA which is close to where I grew up and where most of my family still is) a couple of years ago. They were very nice and it was fascinating. In a few weeks I'm going on a day trip/bus tour (sponsored by one of the suburban Chicago studios I frequent) to Kokomo. I've taken the "tour" on their website, but am really looking forward to seeing the real thing (and contrasting their process with Spectrum's). Envy those who took the Warner/Criv trip to the Youghiogheny (sp?) factory. According to the "hierarchy," (was it Christie?) maybe someday I'll eventually work my way up to the top of the list.... Kaye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 11:41:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:35:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stmassociates.com!shigbee From: "Shari Higbee" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Quality of glass Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:37:41 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.53741.0> Precedence: bulk Sparks said: why not (assuming you can afford it) go for the glass that's going to send you into erotic meltdown every time you look at it? ----------------- Well said!! I spend $200 on glass every time I step foot into my local retailer, buying pieces I fall in love with and have no idea in mind of where I will use them. In fact, I have a few that are just simply "too beautiful to use" in anything! Most of my friends/family say I am sick. But I don't think I've ever heard it said better! Thank you Sparks! Erotic meltdown! I love it! Shari ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 12:03:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:10:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: "Albert Lewis" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Glass Quality was: What would I do? Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:09:56 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.3956.0> Precedence: bulk First a MINOR observation.......there are NO TIFFANY LAMPS made with Spectrum glass...........There are MANY REPRODUCTIONS made with Spectrum and like type glass where the only factor is CHEAPNESS! As for using "good" or hand made glass and being able to get 2x as much for the shade as an imported one............still does not compute.......an import for $199.oo you do the same (assuming you can do as poorly) for $400.oo will still not get you a "living wage". I make ALL my panel production shades (100's of 'em) with Spectrum, (cheap, consistent, available, and matchable) and have NO qualms with using it. The old adage "the right tool for the job" is applicable here. Look at a few sheets of(do NOT use a cathedral) "art glass", preferably curious, end of day or un-cats (terms for non-production glass) from Bullsye, Uroborus and Yogo. Get someone to put them on a light table(do not forget to light it) and then, when you are finished DROOLING. switch it for a piece of Spectrum or other machine made glass. See a difference?????? My Tiff Repros have as much and sometimes more life than an original, due to the wider availability of "art glass", the tools to do a clean fit and neat soldering. Some of my shades are soft and subtle, others are LOUD. I do not feel MY shades should be lost in a decor, but stand out as a focal point. Time has not been a factor in my making shades, although IMHO I am pretty fast. Most shades are laid out (in pieces) on a large light table and I can see what I will have before I assemble it. enjoy H weaver51@teleport.com Elaine and Howard best lamps on the "net": http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 12:09:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:17:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: What would I do? Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:14:01 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <199904081715.MAA22523@relay.acns.nwu.edu> Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk >>...why not (assuming you can afford it) go for the glass that's going to send you into erotic meltdown every time you look at it?<< I have a couple pieces of Youghiogheny that I'm tempted to frame as is--can't yet imagine anything I could do to it that wouldn't diminish its awesome uncut beauty! Kaye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 12:18:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:39:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cros.net!soraya From: "Soraya" To: "Bungi List" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:37:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.93711.0> References: <<1999Apr9.114826.0>> Precedence: bulk > beautiful designs and future designs > http://kaneida.home.texas.net/ Wonderful work! It is nice to see someone doing something different. > and don't take your kids to this site! tut tut, that owner looks too young > to be creating this sort of thing! I find nothing offensive at this site....yes....artwork with nudity...but nothing my child could not see and deal with...but then I take her to museums and we look at 'classic' statues and paintings with similar themes.... Soraya ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 12:19:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:53:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: ktsplash Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 10:32:10 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.33210.0> References: <<1999Apr9.114826.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk ktsplash wrote: > > seen this page of women portrayed in glass? if not, check it out > beautiful designs and future designs > http://kaneida.home.texas.net/ > be warned - husbands will be more appreciative of some of these designs than > your garden variety federation style! > and don't take your kids to this site! tut tut, that owner looks too young > to be creating this sort of thing! > on second thought... maybe age has something to do with it! ;-) > > Katie > > ---- > oh this stuff is VERY nice...but I SWEAR I thought I was looking at a copy of "tattoo flash" magazine (my other preferred art medium besides glass). Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 12:44:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:05:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: erols.com!deethom From: Dee Thompson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: bargaining Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 14:16:51 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990408141648.00771e28@pop.erols.com> Precedence: bulk >>What bothers me about the whole thing is that there was no hint that >>there would be other bids sort. THat always throws me off balance too. However, I can't blame people for checking around, I do it when I shop for an expensive item. Prices do vary, usually because of skill, pattern and the work involved....i do not leave the pattern with people unless they have paid for it. If they them choose to go with someone else using my design, I still got paid for my work, and for me, that's ok too... I like to design. If presented with a negotiation when not expected, I'm a little less off balance now a days...been surprised before and learned from the experiences. I tell them that is the price on the design and glass as presented, but if they wish a lower cost we can easily do some changes...then I offer cheaper glass, fewer pieces in the pattern, clear glass instead of bevels, etc. I can whip out a pencil, get a new sheet of paper and streeeetch the design so it has fewer pieces,, or take a leaf and make it one piece of glass instead of two or three, sure a little of the line is dulled and less interesting, but if they are happy, it's ok. It also teaches them to compare like designs and materials. I had a man offer less at a show than I wanted and responded to his offer of 250 on a 350 piece with 450. He was surprised and irritated. Well, ok, really p.o.'d and ready to fight. I kept smiling and said very nicely, that was the price before I knew we going to negotiate. Now I'm ready to bargain with you.;-) He came back later and bought the piece for 325...I felt comfortable giving him his pride at that discount. Dee ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 13:07:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:06:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What would I do? Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 10:20:22 -0700 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990408102022.009b3bd0@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> References: <<1999Apr8.15635.0>> Precedence: bulk At 11:06 AM 4/8/99 EDT, Sparks wrote: > >[clip] > >etc. Glass is a truly sensuous material! > >{clip] > >(assuming you can afford it) go for the glass that's going to send you into >erotic meltdown every time you look at it? > Going for a cold shower now. ;-) Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 13:26:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:29:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: clientside-viennasys.com!sfairbairn From: Steve Fairbairn To: 'Stained Glass Mailing List' Content-Type: text/plain Subject: RE: Mermaid Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:32:55 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.53255.0> Precedence: bulk I found nothing offensive or even slightly pornographic about his work. In fact, I was very impressed by his designs. Did anyone checking out his site notice that he is paralyzed and has been living in a wheelchair for the past 7 years? Steve -----Original Message----- From: ktsplash [mailto:ktsplash@mpx.com.au] Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 8:48 AM To: Bungi List Subject: Mermaid seen this page of women portrayed in glass? if not, check it out beautiful designs and future designs http://kaneida.home.texas.net/ be warned - husbands will be more appreciative of some of these designs than your garden variety federation style! and don't take your kids to this site! tut tut, that owner looks too young to be creating this sort of thing! on second thought... maybe age has something to do with it! ;-) Katie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 13:45:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:35:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Erotic meltdown.... Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:35:25 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.113525.0> Precedence: bulk I always wondered what that was called...yep, thats it!!!!! Abbie in Va. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 14:42:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:58:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: clientside-viennasys.com!sfairbairn From: Steve Fairbairn To: 'Stained Glass Mailing List' Content-Type: text/plain Subject: RE: RE: Mermaid Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:02:23 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.7223.0> Precedence: bulk His links page lists a spinal cord injury site and the description of the site mentions that he is paralyzed and been in a wheelchair for 7 years. His picture page shows him sitting in a wheelchair. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Nadine Beth Schneider [mailto:nadinesfolly@erols.com] Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 2:48 PM To: Steve Fairbairn Subject: re: RE: Mermaid I just went to his bio and it says he just graduated from UT. Did I miss something? Nadine > ** Original Subject: RE: Mermaid > ** Original Sender: Steve Fairbairn > ** Original Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:32:55 -0700 > ** Original Message follows... > > I found nothing offensive or even slightly pornographic about his work. > In fact, I was very impressed by his designs. Did anyone checking out > his site notice that he is paralyzed and has been living in a wheelchair > for the past 7 years? > > Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: ktsplash [mailto:ktsplash@mpx.com.au] > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 8:48 AM > To: Bungi List > Subject: Mermaid > > seen this page of women portrayed in glass? if not, > check it out > beautiful designs and future designs > http://kaneida.home.texas.net/ > be warned - husbands will be more appreciative of some > of these designs than > your garden variety federation style! > and don't take your kids to this site! tut tut, that > owner looks too young > to be creating this sort of thing! > on second thought... maybe age has something to do with > it! ;-) > > Katie > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: > glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: > glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >** --------- End Original Message ----------- ** > www.nadinesfolly.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 15:06:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:09:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Witchdoc3@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: What would I do? Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 16:13:54 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.111354.0> References: <<1999Apr8.15635.0>> Precedence: bulk > The variety of (surface) > textures and consistencies (physical properties) of glass equals the variety > of colors. I was amazed at how some glass felt "soft" to the touch, some was > hard and tough, some hard and brittle, some cut like butter in spite of being > "hard" while some had a mind of its own, some felt almost "crumbly" in spite > of being hard, some cut like "hard" glass but ground like "soft" glass, etc. > etc. Glass is a truly sensuous material! Wow, Sparks...Perfectly said some thoughts I was having earlier today. I had downloaded mail quickly and hadnt seen your post yet, but saw that someone had said that glass was sensuous. That's an understatement to me. While I was thinking about that I thought just what you said above! you expressed it well. > why not (assuming you can afford it) go for the glass that's going to >send you into erotic meltdown every time you look at it? Wow, everytime? I wanna know where you shop, girlfriend! ;o) T Suz > > Anyhoo......... it's up to you what kind of glass you use for anything, but > if you're going to put dozens or hundreds of hours into something that's > going to live in your house (or someone else's) for decades, > > > Sparks -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 15:25:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:11:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Glass Quality was: What would I do? Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:28:00 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.6280.0> Precedence: bulk I agree with Albert. Spectrum is very consistent, predictable and easy to cut. But somehow it lacks depth and character. These are hard properties to define, but when I stand a sheet of Uroboros, Bullseye, etc. up next to a sheet of Spectrum, they simply have more depth and richness than the Spectrum. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 15:36:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:11:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: What would you do? Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:29:01 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.4291.0> Precedence: bulk I would do pretty much the same as you did. I find I never do as good a job when I resent what I am doing. It is not that I am purposefully trying to do a lower quality job - it is simply that my heart just isn't in it so I am not as focused. There are a few cases where I might still go with a lower price for my work. They are all cases where I would be getting something else for it. If a project is exceptionally interesting or it allows me to learn about new techniques or expand my skills I might still go with it. Same thing where the piece will be in an exceptionally good spot for "advertising" and the owner has agreed to have a plaque with my name and/or some other method for people to contact me if the like the piece. And there are always those cases where someone has done me an exceptionally big favor and I am repaying them with a lower price. But if it was just a case of doing the same old thing for an average client and house, I would simply tell them to go with the lower bids like you did. Life is too short to waste my time being underpaid on something which does not expand my horizons. Even when business is short I would still do an interesting piece on speculation rather than selling myself short. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 15:46:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:11:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: What would I do?/bartering Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:55:43 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.65543.0> Precedence: bulk >>Most of the "junk-art-craft-stuff" I own I would NOT >>have PURCHASED..........but do indeed enjoy having them. > >I'll admit I've actually bought a few pieces of "junk-art-craft-stuff"..... >Those "guilty pleasures," those "hate-to-admit-I-love-it" things, ultimately >feed your soul as much in their own way as the "real works of art" do! > I don't even know what "real works of art" are. I personally prefer hand made items which have some undefineable quality I call "soul" or "feel". So this is what are gallery tries to carry and what I try to make. But I also know many people don't feel this way - nor even understand what I am talking about. I say that if a set of four exactly matching mugs from Walmart makes one feel better than some mismatched hand-thrown ones with character - then go for it. High art - low art - real - junk - all those labels aren't worth crap. The important thing is whether something brings you pleasure or not. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 16:07:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:12:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Hang it Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:58:20 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.45820.0> Precedence: bulk I knew they could not be shipped by air. Supposedly they are strong enough to mess up aircraft instrumentation. However, I did not know this stopped them from shipping to the U.S. I believe they have set up a U.S. distribution warehouse in the last year. So maybe they will be able to start shipping the magnets direct from there soon. -----Original Message----- From: Dani Greer To: Tim & Adriana Atwood Cc: Bungi Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 5:14 PM Subject: Re: Hang it >Message text written by "Tim & Adriana Atwood" >>I order mine through Lee Valley Tools catalogue (www.leevalley.com). < > >I've ordered magnets from them three times and they won't ship them into >the U.S. >The only other thing I'll say about Lee Valley is this: If you don't get >their catalog, >sign up, they're the coolest ever..... > >Best regards, > >Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 16:28:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:11:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: iconn.net!tbyrnes From: Tim Byrnes To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Second Notice/ Add me to your List Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 18:11:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.14114.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Folks, Could you please add me to the Bungi list again. Thank you, Tim Byrnes [tbyrnes@iconn.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 16:38:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:25:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Glass Manufacturers Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 18:19:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.141936.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Kaye Sodt" >Envy those who took the Warner/Criv trip to the Youghiogheny = (sp?) factory. According to the "hierarchy," (was it Christie?) = maybe someday I'll eventually work my way up to the top of the = list....< Actually, Lambert glass is top of my list, and that's from only working with one sheet of it. But, boy, what a sheet of glass! Saw another one (I think it was at W-C) that was so darn pretty it would be a sin to even think of cutting it. Just make a frame around the sheet of glass and hang it. But Youghiogheny and Urorborus are neck-in-neck for my everyday work. Love the life in that Uroborus heavy ripple. Hate cutting it. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 17:07:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:23:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: prejudice against customers........ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 19:19:08 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr8.23198.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/8/99 12:22:22 PM, alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net wrote: >Prejudging clients, ain't good. I can't remember which snooty Ivy League school it was that wouldn't accept a skillion-dollar donation for a proposed new building from a bedraggled country-bumpkin-looking mom and pop who wanted the school to name the building in memory of their son. So mom and pop got miffed, moved out to California, built a whole freakin' university, and named it after their son: Leland Stanford, Jr. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 17:41:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:54:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 19:54:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.155444.0> References: <<1999Apr8.54511.0>> Precedence: bulk Christie A. Wood wrote: > Youghiogheny (I'm a BIG fan of this company; lots of great colors, very > hard to cut though) I too love their colors. When I got home from work today, I found my husband busy cutting some Yough...so far it was a six bandage day....I have a box just for Yough scraps, which I use for suncatchers and nightlights. Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 18:00:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:36:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!survey From: To: Subject: Vote YES or NO to SPAM Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:41:01 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Vote YES or NO to SPAM! Dear Friend: Thank you for joining our opt-in list to receive this survey. This is not a SPAM. If you prefer to be excluded from our surveys, feel that this email has reached you in error, or if someone submitted your email address to us by mistake, please reply and type "exclude" in the subject header. You will immediately be excluded from participation on all of our future surveys. The hottest issue on the Internet today is unsolicited email, also referred to as SPAM. Some people believe that stopping SPAM would be an infringement on one's right to free speech, as well as freedom of the press. The guarantee of these rights outweighs the elimination of SPAM they receive in their email. People on the other side of the issue say that unsolicited email is an invasion of privacy and a nuisance. They also believe that SPAM should be illegal, as technically, they are paying the cost to receive it (via hourly ISP charges and increasing monthly charges) every time they log into their email. Which side are you on? Most of you are aware of the battle in the US Courts involving the legality of this issue. It is our intention for this survey to have an impact on the outcome of those decisions. The results of this survey will be published in national publications, submitted to the major commercial servers like AOL and CompuServe, submitted to television media for broadcasting, and submitted directly to legislators in Washington, DC. By taking part in this national survey, you will be helping to decide what outcome the law will have on this issue and help to offset the cost of publishing these results. Let your opinion be known! To participate, call: 1-900-737-0034 to vote "Yes" to SPAM, and 1-900-737-0035 to vote "No" to SPAM. You will be charged $1.99 for your call (which will help offset the cost of publishing the results) and you must be at least 18 years old to participate. VOTE - VOTE - VOTE - VOTE - VOTE - VOTE - VOTE - VOTE - VOTE Survey brought to you by the Internet Polling Committee, Miami, Florida ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 18:11:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:36:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What would I do?/bartering Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 18:35:23 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr8.223523.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/8/99 4:11:02 PM, atwoods@aisl.bc.ca wrote: >some undefineable quality I call "soul" or "feel". Next best thing to erotic meltdown........ and you can do it in front of the kids.... Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 18:26:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:39:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!ellenid From: Elleni Drafts To: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What would I do?/bartering Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 19:40:03 -0400 Message-ID: References: <<1999Apr8.65543.0>> Precedence: bulk >about. I say that if a set of four exactly matching mugs from Walmart makes >one feel better than some mismatched hand-thrown ones with character - then >go for it. > >High art - low art - real - junk - all those labels aren't worth crap. The >important thing is whether something brings you pleasure or not. > Bravo!!!!! Very well said!!!! Elleni ellenid@earthlink.net South Carolina - Smiling Faces - Beautiful Places ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 18:31:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:47:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: Soraya Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 16:26:02 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.9262.0> References: <<1999Apr8.93711.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk > I find nothing offensive at this site....yes....artwork with nudity...but > nothing my child could not see and deal with...but then I take her to > museums and we look at 'classic' statues and paintings with similar > themes.... I tend to agree Soraya...its a shame that people think "nude" is the same as "pornography" they are NOT one and the same...porn is designed to degrade and objectify real people whereas I think art is appreciative of the inherant beauty in the human form. Liz > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 18:40:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:14:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: The touch, the feel... Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 20:13:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.161339.0> Precedence: bulk Every now and then I find a glass that's wonderful to the touch...usually from the scrap bin and often I don't have a clue what it is. But I'll make a suncatcher out of it and then find myself at craFT fairs, standing next to the exhibit, fingering the glass. Erotic or what? And in public, for a real thrill... Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 18:55:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:56:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: infinet.com!glasscat From: Carolyn Noel To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Rapid Set Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 20:54:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.165424.0> Precedence: bulk --------------08543C641678E5D7EC5D9BFA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone: Rapid Set (concrete) has been mentioned quite a few times in the past, and I thought a web site had been listed. Local concrete suppliers have never heard of the stuff, so I was wondering if someone knew the site address or how to contact the manufacturer so I could see if there's a distributor in western Ohio somewhere. Thanks! Carolyn --------------08543C641678E5D7EC5D9BFA Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone:
Rapid Set (concrete) has been mentioned quite a few times in the past, and I thought a web site had been listed.  Local concrete suppliers have never heard of the stuff, so I was wondering if someone knew the site address or how to contact the manufacturer so I could see if there's a distributor in western Ohio somewhere.
Thanks!
Carolyn --------------08543C641678E5D7EC5D9BFA-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 19:23:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 18:17:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: erols.com!deethom From: Dee Thompson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Vote YES or NO to SPAM Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 21:29:43 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990408212941.00774ca0@pop.erols.com> Precedence: bulk Not only is this spam, but they now charge you for saying you don't want spam!!! what a world this internet is! DEE At 03:41 PM 4/8/99, survey@netzero.net wrote: >Vote YES or NO to SPAM! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 20:39:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 19:46:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.megsinet.net!pjnelson From: Paula Nelson To: Bob E Duchesneau , Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What would you do? Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 21:10:01 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.16101.0> Precedence: bulk >So, what would you do? I know that if I lowered my bid I would resent >doing the job. I've been down that road before and do not like it. I think that after overcoming the shock of having them ask me to relook my price... I would have said the same thing. Knowing that my rates are fair, and that I'm a perfectionist - I hope they can live with what they get. Paula Nelson uitland@glassdogstudio.com The Glass Dog Studio http://www.glassdogstudio.com/TGDS.htm vom Uitland Rottweilers http://www.glassdogstudio.com/uitland.htm ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 21:13:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:22:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: vvm.com!ktjude From: judy novak To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: tv tutu sighting! Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 22:20:23 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.172023.0> Organization: calumet farm and studios/glass & goodies Precedence: bulk Let it be know that our very own Patrick Kelly was seen on public television! He did a fine job of representing stained glass in our local area. I personally want to thank you Patrick for your involvement in our community and your hours of dedication. You are the kind of people that make our community and hence our country so great! Thanks so much! The jewels on the fringed edges of the cobalt blue tutu added such a sparkle. I was in total awe of your gracefulness, your poise......... until the very end when you threw that old lady to the floor and wrestled the mike from her screaming "I want to tell them, I want to tell them!!!!!!!!" and they cut to commercial. judy n ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 8 21:24:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:24:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Mar333Wood From: Mar333Wood@aol.com To: deethom@erols.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Vote YES or NO to SPAM Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 23:15:21 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr9.31521.0> Precedence: bulk >Hi. This is the NetZero mail server. >I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. >This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. : >Account closed due to violation of user policy I replied with "exclude" in the subject line and this is the response. Makes one wonder about SPAM! Marti ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 03:44:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 02:34:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!rwl50 From: Rick To: survey@netzero.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Vote YES or NO to SPAM Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 02:35:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr8.193520.0> Precedence: bulk Why did I get this BS thru bungi? === http://home.fuse.net/crafts _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 04:43:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 03:55:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Vote YES or NO to SPAM Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:02:04 +0000 Message-ID: <199904091054.GAA04313@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Why did I get this BS thru bungi? Because this particular scam is itself spam. Note that you have to call a 900 number, thus *paying to complain about having received the message. Whoever sent it is both cynical and greedy, taking advantage of people's anger at having received it, then bilking them when (if) they call to complain. There's a single key on everyone's keyboard that takes care of such messages: DEL ... lower right-hand corner of PC keyboards. There isn't any more reason to be outraged by messages like these than to be upset that the smiling faces on Publishers Clearing House envelopes arrive in your smail box. What do you do with those? Write an angry letter? No, you just round-file them without a second thought. Same thing with spam. Just say delete and trouble yourself no more about it. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 05:14:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 04:13:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr From: CncptThnkr@aol.com To: ktjude@vvm.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: tv tutu sighting! Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:11:28 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr9.111128.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/9/99 12:14:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ktjude@vvm.com writes: > cobalt blue tutu Hey Judy, How much are you selling copies of the tape for???? I love cobalt blue, excellent choice Patrick. Thanks for making me smile Judy. IA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 05:42:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 05:01:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: It's Red...... Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:00:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.4040.0> Precedence: bulk The glass is from Youghiogheny...It's red and it's beyond words.....looks like fluid blood running through it ....it is wild.....wonder if it would scan.....you got to see it! Makes your heart pound.....abbie in Va. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 06:11:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 05:07:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: lol...Patrick... Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:07:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.4720.0> Precedence: bulk Made my day....LOL.....great job Patrick....Abbie In Va. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 06:32:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 05:22:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: famous at last Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:20:33 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr9.122033.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Brandon, Very nice work! You certainly put great effort into it with all of the individual pieces for the wings!!! Lots of patience! Tell us, is this a personal piece or did you sell it on commission? Lenore P.S. I suggest others check out the bungi gallery too. http://aries27.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/glass/gallery/index.php3?state=gallery P.S.S. Thanks Daniel for your work of posting the photos of bungi members' work!!! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 06:50:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 05:26:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!ezcomezgo From: rrk To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Vote YES or NO to SPAM Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 05:20:23 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr8.222023.0> References: <<1999Apr8.193520.0>> Precedence: bulk Rick wrote: > > Why did I get this BS thru bungi? Because whoever wrote this is pretty sharp thats why. Who could POSSIBLY be against an ANTI-SPAM project? It would be like being against Santa Claus, or the Easter Bunny. EVERYBODY hates spam right? As to why they did it in the first place .... remember what good old P.T. Barnum said about one being born every minute? These days its probably more like one every 5 milliseconds or so. Lessee ... approximately 50 million ppl on the internet (just using a round number for easy guesstimating, probably double or triple that nowadays). assume 25% of the ppl on the internet are recipients and further assume 0.5% of recipients respond (call the number). .... 50,000,000 x 0.25 x 0.005 x $2.00 USD = $125,000 USD Cost of the email : ZERO dollars (or almost) thats a pretty good profit for a VERY small investment ... and practically zero chance of legal actions ... I mean this isn't even ILLEGAL. I'll bet you cash money, at 10 to 1 odds, that there is no law on the books prohibiting this even though it is obviously a scam. could be even better actually .... if you assume that it reaches 50% of all internet users, and you have a 1% response rate (fairly typical I do believe) ... and you keep them on the phoneline for a longer period than "advertised ... say $5.00 USD worth .... 50,000,000 x 0.50 x 0.01 x $5.00 USD = $1,250,000 USD Don't know what their take is, but whatever it is, since the investment is low, this scheme would be referred to in the common parlance as "profitable". I admire original crooks though ... as long as its a victimless crime (non-violent that is) ... like the guy who did the very first skyjacking ... the one who got $250,000 bucks and jumped out of the airplane over the Rockies, the one who was never caught? Have to admire him in a way ... original thinking and all that. Regards to all ........... Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 07:14:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 05:59:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us!gonzalj From: Jim Gonzalez To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Vote YES or NO to SPAM Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:12:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr9.51225.0> References: <<199904091054.GAA04313@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk > > Why did I get this BS thru bungi? > You got this because some clever person wrote an internet bot (short for robot) to retrieve web pages from all over the internet and look for the 'mailto' tag. By extracting the email address one could assemble quite an address book. If even 1% of those addresses hit a mail exploder like bungi that sends the spam to 500+ real addresses then BINGO they hit paydirt. So as Albert says: >There's a single key on everyone's keyboard that takes care of such >messages: DEL ... lower right-hand corner of PC keyboards. You should NEVER reply to them as it just adds one more valid email address to their address list. Email lists like snail lists can be bought and sold for real money. Jim ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 07:22:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 06:20:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:17:38 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.51738.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "The Banker's House" >I may have made a mistake in my last post.... lamp shade work.... isn't lampworking something in hot glass? No hot glass here yet.... didn't mea= n to be confusing.< Lampworking is also known as flameworking. It is when you create artwork by melting glass rods in an open flame. BTW, you are mistaken that there is no hot glass here yet. There are several bungians (for example, pj friend) who are primarily hot glass artists. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 07:39:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 06:22:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Rapid Set Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:17:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.51751.0> Precedence: bulk Contact Barbara Jack, owner of Inspirations, Inc. stained glass retail supply store. That's where I get my Rapid Set. Her husband is a big-time concrete contractor and gets the stuff. He will know who the distributors are for your area. 610-630-0933 Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 07:55:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 06:22:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:17:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.51749.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "The Banker's House" >Where are Visa & Pilkington and Lamberts manufactured? I am unfamiliar with them.> I believe they are ?South American? manufactured. They are carried by Rainbow Art Glass/Studio J (wholesale distributor & retail store) in Wall, NJ. Nice line of mostly textured clears. I use their Morisco frequently. Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 06:29:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Rapid Set Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:28:38 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr9.132838.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/8/99 8:56:15 PM, glasscat@infinet.com wrote: >Rapid Set (concrete) has been mentioned quite a few times in the past, >and I thought a web site had been listed. Local concrete suppliers have >never heard of the stuff, so I was wondering if someone knew the site >address or how to contact the manufacturer so I could see if there's a >distributor in western Ohio somewhere. http://www.rapidset.com/ Their web site doesn't have a distributors list but they do have a toll-free number: CTS Cement Manufacturing Co 800-929-3030 Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 08:19:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 06:32:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Vote YES or NO to SPAM Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:30:15 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr9.133015.0> Precedence: bulk >At 03:41 PM 4/8/99, survey@netzero.net wrote: > >>Vote YES or NO to SPAM! I vote NO on this SCAM! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 08:33:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 06:36:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: tv tutu sighting! Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:34:37 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr9.133437.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/8/99 11:14:24 PM, ktjude@vvm.com wrote: >Let it be know that our very own Patrick Kelly was seen on public >television! He did a fine job of representing stained glass in our >local area. Well, well, well! We have a celebrity in our midst! Patrick, I *do* hope you remembered to polish up that tutu before you went on camera. Fingerprints on your skirt are every bit as much a fashion no-no as "static klingons." (Fortunately Kem-O-Pro smells a lot better than Static Guard!) Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 08:44:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:50:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "judy novak" , Subject: Rapid Set concrete Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:38:03 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.0383.0> Precedence: bulk http://www.rapidset.com/ http://www.savvysearch.com/search?q=Rapid+Set+concrete&op=p&cat= In my opinion, which is sometimes like obnoxious, this is the best search engine,,, http://www.savvysearch.com/ Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: judy novak To: glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 09:21 PM Subject: tv tutu sighting! |Let it be know that our very own Patrick Kelly was seen on public |television! He did a fine job of representing stained glass in our |local area. |I personally want to thank you Patrick for your involvement in our |community and your hours of dedication. You are the kind of people that |make our community and hence our country so great! Thanks so much! |The jewels on the fringed edges of the cobalt blue tutu added such a |sparkle. I was in total awe of your gracefulness, your poise......... |until the very end when you threw that old lady to the floor and |wrestled the mike from her screaming "I want to tell them, I want to |tell them!!!!!!!!" and they cut to commercial. | |judy n | |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 08:50:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:26:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: tv tutu sighting! Date: Fri Apr 9 07:24:29 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.5229.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE8292.7DDCBA2A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I fully expect this to be included with the E-Tour tape. After all every serious subject deserves some levity. Vic M. vmodiano@ctronsoft.com -----Original Message----- From: judy novak [mailto:ktjude@vvm.com] Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 11:20 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: tv tutu sighting! Let it be know that our very own Patrick Kelly was seen on public television! He did a fine job of representing stained glass in our local area. I personally want to thank you Patrick for your involvement in our community and your hours of dedication. You are the kind of people that make our community and hence our country so great! Thanks so much! The jewels on the fringed edges of the cobalt blue tutu added such a sparkle. I was in total awe of your gracefulness, your poise......... until the very end when you threw that old lady to the floor and wrestled the mike from her screaming "I want to tell them, I want to tell them!!!!!!!!" and they cut to commercial. judy n ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE8292.7DDCBA2A Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: tv tutu sighting!

I fully expect this to be included with the E-Tour tape.
After all every serious subject deserves some levity.

Vic M.
vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

-----Original Message-----
From: judy novak [mailto:ktjude@vvm.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 11:20 PM
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: tv tutu sighting!


Let it be know that our very own Patrick Kelly was seen on public
television!  He did a fine job of representing stained glass in our
local area.
I personally want to thank you Patrick for your involvement in our
community and your hours of dedication. You are the kind of people that
make our community and hence our country so great!  Thanks so much!
The jewels on the fringed edges of the cobalt blue tutu added such a
sparkle. I was in total awe of your gracefulness, your poise.........
until the very end when you threw that old lady to the floor and
wrestled the mike from her screaming "I want to tell them, I want to
tell them!!!!!!!!" and they cut to commercial.

judy n

----
For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE8292.7DDCBA2A-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 09:02:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:55:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" , Subject: Re: Vote YES or NO to SPAM Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:42:59 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.04259.0> Precedence: bulk Well, it sounds like a generic garbage answer, just to throw you to left field, that you really gave them a valid email address, for them to sell. It is better not to respond to Spam, all you are really doing most of the time is providing verification that the email address is valid. Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: Mar333Wood@aol.com To: deethom@erols.com ; glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 09:32 PM Subject: Re: Vote YES or NO to SPAM |>Hi. This is the NetZero mail server. |>I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. |>This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. | |: |>Account closed due to violation of user policy | | I replied with "exclude" in the subject line and this is the response. Makes |one wonder about SPAM! |Marti | |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 09:10:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:30:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: NOT GLASS-TORNADO Date: Fri Apr 9 07:29:24 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.5724.0> Precedence: bulk good morning everyone just wanted to take a minute to ask for prayers for cincinnati this morning. we were hit with a devastating tornado early this morning, and hale with 50 mile an hour winds to occur in the next couple hours also. for the amount of damage, the fatalities are low and the injuries are low. cincinnati hasn't seen anything like this since the xenia tornado 25 years ago. thank you, and i will apologize now for anyone who is affended by this posting... again, thank you p.s. if anyone has family or friends here, and you would like to e-mail me off list, i will do what i can to get information for you, or make phone calls for you! debbie taylor kleeman@one.net http://www.taylordexpressions.com your complete stained glass supply source 1-888-488-9616 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 09:13:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:02:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: Erotic Meltdown Date: Fri Apr 9 08:00:57 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.53857.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE8297.D8205DE8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" In a message dated 4/8/99 4:11:02 PM, atwoods@aisl.bc.ca wrote: >some undefineable quality I call "soul" or "feel". Next best thing to erotic meltdown........ and you can do it in front of the kids.... Sparks Fair warning Sparks, If my wife ends up pregnant because of this thread you'll hear from my liar... er lawyer. Could this be the first maternity suit? Vic M. vmodiano@ctronsoft.com PS Don't worry I'll settle for a new soldering iron and some glass. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE8297.D8205DE8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: Erotic Meltdown

In a message dated 4/8/99 4:11:02 PM, atwoods@aisl.bc.ca wrote:

>some undefineable quality I call "soul" or "feel".

Next best thing to erotic meltdown........ and you can do it in front of the
kids....


Sparks


Fair warning Sparks,

If my wife ends up pregnant because of this thread you'll hear from my liar... er lawyer.
Could this be the first maternity suit?

Vic M.
vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

PS Don't worry I'll settle for a new soldering iron and some glass.

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE8297.D8205DE8-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 09:41:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:35:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: What would I do?/bartering Date: Fri Apr 9 07:35:19 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.51319.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE8294.41E3919A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >I say that if a set of four exactly matching mugs from Walmart makes >one feel better than some mismatched hand-thrown ones with character - then >go for it. > >High art - low art - real - junk - all those labels aren't worth crap. The >important thing is whether something brings you pleasure or not. > I disagree. The labels are important. You just need to understand them. High art is what brings you pleasure (erotic meltdowns and lesser feelings) just looking at it or knowing it is there. Low art is the stuff that matches the couch. Junk art is the stuff that critics rave about but no one understands with out a detailed explanation. And let's not forget: Real art. Real art is art that makes you think and gets a reaction from you. You like it, you hate it, it makes you laugh, cry, want to hug someone... Please note, if you don't understand it, it is not real. Vic M. vmodiano@ctronsoft.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE8294.41E3919A Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: What would I do?/bartering

>I say that if a set of four exactly matching mugs = from Walmart makes
>one feel better than some mismatched hand-thrown = ones with character - then
>go for it.
>
>High art - low art - real - junk - all those = labels aren't worth crap.  The
>important thing is whether something brings you = pleasure or not.
>

I disagree. The labels are important. You just need = to understand them.

High art is what brings you pleasure (erotic = meltdowns and lesser feelings) just looking at it or knowing it is = there.

Low art is the stuff that matches the couch.

Junk art is the stuff that critics rave about but no = one understands with out a detailed explanation.

And let's not forget: Real art. Real art is art that = makes you think and gets a reaction from you. You like it, you hate it, = it makes you laugh, cry, want to hug someone... Please note, if you = don't understand it, it is not real.

Vic M.
vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE8294.41E3919A-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 09:48:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:17:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Classydad From: Classydad@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Suggestions for a stop Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:15:16 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr9.151516.0> Precedence: bulk What type of material (preferably wood) do any of you recommend for a stop to be placed in front of a 19" round beveled glass piece to hold the panel in? The panel will be installed into a solid wood front door of a home. I've seen Home Depot-type "leaded" doors that have what looks like a 1/4" thick curved wood strip put inside the round opening to hold the panel in. Wonder if it isn't really wood. Would think that pine or other wood would break before it would bend to that opening. I plan to place a clear piece of glass in front of the leaded panel to protect it from outside elements, but not a clear piece to complete the sandwich on the inside of the door. That's where I need the stop. It will be painted over, so doesn't really matter what the material is made of. Thanks for any suggestions. Keith ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 10:05:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:23:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:29:28 +0000 Message-ID: <199904091521.LAA05737@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > >Where are Visa & Pilkington and Lamberts manufactured? Don't know "Visa," but Pilkington's English and Lamberts is German. > Anyone care to comment on English Muffle, or Desag Um, English Muffle's made by ... Armstrong? Desag's out of business, but was German. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 10:06:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:26:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: It's Red...... Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:25:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.72540.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Evelyn C Mason" >The glass is from Youghiogheny...It's red and it's beyond words.....look= s like fluid blood running through it ....it is wild.....wonder if it woul= d scan.....you got to see it! Makes your heart pound..< I'm using it in a Victorian set of 3 windows right now. Very dark. I'm also using the Youghiogheny blood red with blue streaks in the same window, as well as the Yough dark ripple green, the Yough ice (both plain and ripple textures), Yough medium green in ice, and Bullseye cream/brown. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 10:14:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:09:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE: scrap glass, and keeping customers (and sometimes getti Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 17:08:04 +0000 Message-ID: <199904091609.QAA11311@saturn> Precedence: bulk Hi All, I seem forever having to apologize about my absence recently... Lurker appears to have become my second name...:-< Have had my hands full, sorting out the hot water tank that burst and flooded my study, made the dining room ceiling collapse and subsequently flooded my dining room also.... Hot water tank now finally installed (....and costing US Dollars approx. 450); my study normally looks like a bomb-site.... but now it looks like TWO bomb-sites after pouring rain. Mopping up continues, carpet cleaning likewise.... a friend of mine talks to me through the hole in the dining room and tells me why don't I rip the whole lot down, because there appears to be some really old ceiling beams hidden underneath all this "wattle and daub". The ensuing mess just makes me feel faint and I call back to say that, "the house-sitting team" is most welcome to amuse themselves with this task in the summer during my absence in USA...... Back to Albert's point about never to judge a book by its covers; many years ago when my husband Brian and I were turning an old bakehouse into a residential home, I stumbled on an extraordinarily togged up strange visitor on the building site one day. There was this middle-aged woman in green woollen tights, bright red skirt, bright orange cardigan with holes in, and an old, ripped purple scarf. Her shoes were old, worn women's brogues and she looked a total tramp who had picked up reject clothes from a charity shop and then waded through mud in them. I was not a little surprised seeing her scrambling around the bake-oven opening. I asked her very politely if I could be of assistance. She explained to me in both language and accent that totally belied her appearance that she was very interested in what was going on in the village, especially any new projects - such as the Old Bakery ( which had stood disused since 1948). I ended up offering to take her around the building site to explain to her what we had in mind, which she accepted eagerly and followed me round the entire site. At the end of the "tour" she thanked me most graciously and apologized that she had not introduced herself right from the start. She told me that she was Rachel Bowes-Lyon and lived "down the road". She omitted to mention that she was in fact Lady Rachel Bowes-Lyon and a sister-in-law to the Queen Mother and that "down the road" is in fact a huge Estate where the Queen Mother used to spend a considerable time, when she was more "sprightly". The Queen Mother was in fact also baptized in the local little village church. .....And have I been "To Tea"?? Oh yes, several times! .....AND met the Queen Mother a couple of times there! Lady Bowes-Lyon was as eccentric as the "tramp" I found wandering around the building site, but a very shrewed lady, and enormously gracious and generous. A lesson in deed of how not to judge by appearances........ Back to "lurker-mode" and mopping up! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK > Albert wrote: > > seems sneakers, denim cut offs and a tank top did not fit his image > > of upscale clientele(pronounced big commission). > > There's a famous story about Grace Slick (lead singer of the > Jefferson Airplane at the time) during the '60s, walking into an auto > showroom (BMWs, Mercedes, etc.) and the salesman giving her the cold > shoulder, 'cause you KNOW how she was dressed! > > I'd love to have seen his face when she bought an $80,000 car (or > something like that) and took the cash out of her purse. Someone > *else got that commission. > > Prejudging clients, ain't good. Heck, I have a friend who's one of > the heirs to the Xerox fortune. She has $5 million a year in > disposable income, but you'd never know it to look at her. Dressed > down? You bet. Regular ol' car? Uh-huh. Nice, salt-o-the-earth > person. Yes to that, too. Salesmen would make a mistake in her case, > too. > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 10:19:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:50:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:44:43 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.74443.0> Precedence: bulk Lamberts in manufactured in Germany. S.A. Benheims in Passaic and California are their US distributor. Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: Christie A. Wood To: Bungi Date: Friday, April 09, 1999 11:13 AM Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines >Message text written by "The Banker's House" >>Where are Visa & Pilkington and Lamberts manufactured? I am unfamiliar >with >them.> > >I believe they are ?South American? manufactured. They >are carried by Rainbow Art Glass/Studio J (wholesale >distributor & retail store) in Wall, NJ. Nice line of mostly >textured clears. I use their Morisco frequently. > > >I forgot about Oceana. Don't know Lins. I would also rank >Oceana up there with Bullseye. I've only worked with a few >of the blue/green mottled and streaky Oceana pieces, but >they did cut well for me. > >Anyone care to comment on English Muffle, or Desag, or >any other glass manufacturers I've left off my little list? > >Christie A. Wood >Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, >P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 >http://www.igga.org/wood/ >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 10:31:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:24:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:19:24 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr9.161924.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/9/99 9:56:49 AM, Ensembles@compuserve.com wrote: >Anyone care to comment on English Muffle Isn't English Muffle a Wissmach line? Sparks (who also digs those Oceana blue-greens and is greatly amused by the name stamped in near the edge of the glass; it makes a fun addition to a mosaic piece) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 10:41:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:32:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!ezcomezgo From: rrk To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Wholesale glass prices for a House of Glass Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 09:32:15 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.23215.0> Precedence: bulk Can anyone give me an idea of wholesale prices for stained glass? Say, a mixed case (464 sq ft)? Shipping to either California or Texas. iknowiknowiknowiknowiknow ..... it varies with color, number of colors, and so on. BUT .... some idea would be helpful. Even just a general rule-of-thumb percent reduction would be helpful. Feel free to send any replies by direct email instead of the list if you don=92t want to shout it to the world for business reasons. I=92m thinking about, strongly considering that is, building a =93house o= f glass=94 back home, on an isolated lake of course . A place to ge= t away from it all for now and retire to later. The walls would essentially be two sets of Japanese-style sliding glass doors with an outer set (facing the weather) being clear glass and the inner set being stained glass. Maybe some European style rolling shutters from floor to ceiling to close the place up tight when we're not there. A few partitions on the inside ... one does need privacy for, ahem, certain things ... couldn't be THAT expensive to build. Just trying to estimate costs. Thanks ............ Bob Compiled from previous posts Armstrong Bullseye = Chicago Art Glass Desag English Muffle Kokomo Lambert Lins Oceana = Spectrum Uroboros Visa & Pilkington = Wissmach Youghiogheny ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 11:11:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:14:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Erotic Meltdown Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:19:20 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr9.161920.0> Precedence: bulk Also sprach Vic M: >If my wife ends up pregnant because of this thread As a former Planned Parenthood education volunteer, I can advise you on lots of ways to avoid that :-) (Yeah, yeah, another former life...........) >Could this be the first maternity suit? Naaaaaahhhhhhhh........ maternity suits are what they sell in the "Mother's Work" mail-order clothing catalog. Honi soit qui mal y pense. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 11:33:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:16:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: hotmail.com!kseeglass From: "K See" To: ktjude@vvm.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: tv tutu sighting! Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 10:16:01 PDT Message-ID: <1999Apr9.17161.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks Judy for this great image. Hey Patrick if & when you get down here to Alexandria, I ask that you bare with me (no pun intended) while I try to hold a straight face. Ok..I have to ask How did the glass tutu start? K See (laughing till I had tears) >From: judy novak >To: "glass@bungi.com" >Subject: tv tutu sighting! >Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 22:20:23 -0500 > >Let it be know that our very own Patrick Kelly was seen on public >television! He did a fine job of representing stained glass in our >local area. >I personally want to thank you Patrick for your involvement in our >community and your hours of dedication. You are the kind of people that >make our community and hence our country so great! Thanks so much! >The jewels on the fringed edges of the cobalt blue tutu added such a >sparkle. I was in total awe of your gracefulness, your poise......... >until the very end when you threw that old lady to the floor and >wrestled the mike from her screaming "I want to tell them, I want to >tell them!!!!!!!!" and they cut to commercial. > >judy n > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 11:43:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:26:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!charles_spitzer From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Suggestions for a stop Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 10:22:33 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990409102233.0095f280@atlas2.az.stratus.com> Precedence: bulk well, if it's a curved piece of wood, you want a hardwood. you might be able to do this with red oak, but you'd have to steam bend it, which is not a trivial task in itself. you might want to talk to a local woodworker about this. regards, charlie phx, az >Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:15:16 -0400 >Subject: Suggestions for a stop >Sender: Classydad@aol.com >From: Classydad@aol.com >To: glass@bungi.com > >What type of material (preferably wood) do any of you recommend for a stop to >be placed in front of a 19" round beveled glass piece to hold the panel in? >The panel will be installed into a solid wood front door of a home. I've >seen Home Depot-type "leaded" doors that have what looks like a 1/4" thick >curved wood strip put inside the round opening to hold the panel in. Wonder >if it isn't really wood. > >Would think that pine or other wood would break before it would bend to that >opening. I plan to place a clear piece of glass in front of the leaded panel >to protect it from outside elements, but not a clear piece to complete the >sandwich on the inside of the door. That's where I need the stop. It will >be painted over, so doesn't really matter what the material is made of. > >Thanks for any suggestions. > >Keith >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 12:00:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:27:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: "Christie A. Wood" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: It's Red...... Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:20:38 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.32038.0> Precedence: bulk I also like the red yogo..........wonderful for lamps, as the red does NOT go/get muddy....... the red mixed with ice white does adapt well for flowers. enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com Elaine and Howard best lamps on the "net": http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 12:01:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:31:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig From: "Mike Figgy" To: "Albert Lewis" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:29:52 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.92952.0> References: <<199904091521.LAA05737@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk How about Swiss Cheesed GlassWerks? > > > >Where are Visa & Pilkington and Lamberts manufactured? > > Don't know "Visa," but Pilkington's English and Lamberts is German. > > > > Anyone care to comment on English Muffle, or Desag > > Um, English Muffle's made by ... Armstrong? Desag's out of business, > but was German. > > Albert > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 12:12:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:39:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Albert Lewis" , Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:27:49 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.32749.0> Precedence: bulk Are you sure Desag is out of Business? They were/are part of Schott Glass, and from what I have heard from the West Coast Manager, they are still around. Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, April 09, 1999 10:19 AM Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines | |> >Where are Visa & Pilkington and Lamberts manufactured? | |Don't know "Visa," but Pilkington's English and Lamberts is German. | | |> Anyone care to comment on English Muffle, or Desag | |Um, English Muffle's made by ... Armstrong? Desag's out of business, |but was German. | |Albert |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 12:33:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:08:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!nbg3755 From: Nancy B Gildersleeve To: alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Vote YES or NO to SPAM Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:43:56 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.64356.0> Precedence: bulk Actually, I knew someone who would stuff all the junk mail into the postage paid envelope provided and sent it back to the sender. That way the sender would at least have to pay for it twice. It is irritating to have already fat e-mail postings made even fatter by spam, though (and I'm sorry in advance for this contribution to the problem). Nancy G ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 12:42:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:37:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:Classydad@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Suggestions for a stop Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:37:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.10374.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:Classydad@aol.com > Would think that pine or other wood would break before it would bend to that = opening. I plan to place a clear piece of glass in front of the leaded panel = to protect it from outside elements, but not a clear piece to complete th= e = sandwich on the inside of the door. That's where I need the stop. It wi= ll be painted over, so doesn't really matter what the material is made of. < Someone on bungi a long time ago posted that there was a vinyl molding available, but we've never tried any... you could use the time-honored technique of dyed= or stained rope (needs to be pretty thick.) And you can steam-bend your stops if yo= u want to go to all that trouble. = Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 13:02:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:38:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Rapid Set Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:36:56 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.103656.0> Precedence: bulk I just notice a 60 pound of Quickcrete from Home Depot costs just under $= 2 in the last sale flier.... makes you wonder what they do to that concrete before= they box it for stepping stones to justify the cost y'all pay..... Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 13:15:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:05:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: nettally.com!gypsy2 From: "Sandy Gustafson" To: Subject: NG: Y2K VCR SETTINGS Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:51:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.105141.0> Precedence: bulk Subject: Y2K VCR SETTINGS What do you all think of this? Here is something I bet you hadn't thought would be an issue for Y2K. Some, if not most, VCR's won't be able to use the programmed advanced recording feature. "Do not throw away your VCR in the year 2000. Set the year on 1972 because the calendar days of the week and month will be the same as the year 2000. Please pass this on because you know the manufacturer will not share this information. They will want you to buy a new one that is Y2K compliant. Sandy G. in FL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 13:22:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:40:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Christie A. Wood" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:36:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.103653.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Christie A. Wood" >comment on English Muffle, or Desag,< English muffle is nice in its place.... I think Wissmach has the license = to manufacture it now.... I know it's not coming out of Australia anymore. Desag mouthblown is not being manufactured anymore... the kids got rid of that factory (too much work, I guess) but pj tells us the old Desag staff is coming on board with Lamberts (is that right pj?) to start up a second location. I'd be interested in hearing more about that and also what the latest is with Hartley Wood in England..... Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & STudios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 13:30:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:42:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Christie A. Wood" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:36:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.103651.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Christie A. Wood" >Lamberts manufactured?< Glashutte Lamberts is manufactured in West Germany and is probably the nicest glass this side of heaven. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & STudios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 13:41:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:42:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Suggestions for a stop Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:05:22 -0700 Message-ID: <199904091705.KAA27480@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >What type of material (preferably wood) do any of you recommend for a stop to >be placed in front of a 19" round beveled glass piece to hold the panel in? Keith Try one of the plastic moldings that are available at the lumberyard. I've used them success on transom windows of 30" diamater and don't see why they wouldn't conform to a smaller radius curve. They come in "natural" wood grain and white. I suggest this since you are going to paint the door. If it was an expensive handmade door for a real upscale kind of installation where the natural beauty of the wood is important,I'd probably suggest getting a woodworker to do some kind of custom stop (like steaming the stop to shape) since the plastic would look tacky in that instance. C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 13:46:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:52:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: tv tutu sighting! NG Date: Fri Apr 9 11:52:16 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.93016.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE82B8.07BDFCFC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Ok..I have to ask How did the glass tutu start? K See (laughing till I had tears) Patrick I leave this one to you. Remember most of it but your version has to be better. May be Toby will accept it in place of a Bio this weekend? Vic M. vmodiano@ctronsoft.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE82B8.07BDFCFC Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: tv tutu sighting! NG

Ok..I have to ask How did the glass tutu start?

K See (laughing till I had tears)


Patrick

I leave this one to you.
Remember most of it but your version has to be better.

May be Toby will accept it in place of a Bio this weekend?

Vic M.
vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE82B8.07BDFCFC-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 13:53:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:56:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: rrk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Wholesale glass prices for a House of Glass Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:53:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.105347.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by rrk >Can anyone give me an idea of wholesale prices for stained glass?< Well, Spectrum starts at under $2 s.f. and Lambert's can shoot up to over= $29 s.f. Dichroic is priced by the square inch so what does that tell you? These are wholesale prices. You can buy an awful lot of glass for between $5 and $= 10 a s.f., but that's still a heck of a price range. For a healthy budget, figure 500 s.f. at $5 for a $2,500 bill. That should get you a wholesale account somewhere with a business card, some letterhead, and business checking account. Bu= y from a wholesaler in California or Texas... Bendheims and Houston S.G. come to= mind.... to reduce shipping costs. And be sure to check building codes i= n your area! Glass houses are tough to get built - you might end up having= to sandwich that nice stained glass between two layers of laminated safety glass and, wow, that'll knock the price even more into orbit. Yikes. best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 14:07:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:41:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: net-port.com!columbine From: Ken & Barbara Larie To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Mailing list Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 14:29:24 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.92924.0> Organization: Columbine Stained Glass Company Precedence: bulk I was down for a week and I have over 300 messages waiting, mostly from bungi.com. Please take me off the mailing list ASAP. I can't deal with this kind of traffic, no time. Thank you for putting me on, and Thank you even more for taking me off. Barbara Larie columbine@net-port.com. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 14:14:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:03:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 16:01:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.12131.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Dani Greer >Glashutte Lamberts is manufactured in West Germany and is probably the nicest glass this side of heaven.< Yes, folks, I do know that Lamberts is manufactured in Germany, not South America. I just didn't read the original post correctly. Vasa is manufactured in Argentina. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 14:21:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:02:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: It's Red...... Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 16:01:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.12129.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Howard" >I also like the red yogo..........wonderful for lamps, as the red does N= OT go/get muddy....... the red mixed with ice white does adapt well for flowers.< Yes, I like that Yough red in ice very much. However, I have this weakness for the gold/pink in ice ripple. Don't know why I keep making things hard for myself, but I just can't help picking the ripple texture over the plain texture every time. Sparks will verify that I'm a sucker for that ripple stuff. She calls the Yough pure cathedral red ripple the "666" glass (as in the mark of the beast from Revelations). But I like it. Guess that makes me the glass cutter from h*ll. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 14:32:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:31:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Rapid Set Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 16:31:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.123114.0> References: <<1999Apr9.103656.0>> Precedence: bulk But Rapid Set ain't Quickcrete! Dorothy Dani Greer wrote: > I just notice a 60 pound of Quickcrete from Home Depot costs just under $= > 2 > in the > last sale flier.... makes you wonder what they do to that concrete before= > > they box it > for stepping stones to justify the cost y'all pay..... > > Best, > > Dani Greer > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 14:44:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:38:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: ktsplash Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:37:31 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.223731.0> References: <<1999Apr9.114826.0@?>> Precedence: bulk I know I'll get a few brick bats about this but... I don't find the gushing approval for the works on this site justified. To me it shows the use of the image of women as means to get attention. Steve In message <1999Apr9.114826.0@?>, ktsplash writes >seen this page of women portrayed in glass? if not, check it out >beautiful designs and future designs >http://kaneida.home.texas.net/ >be warned - husbands will be more appreciative of some of these designs than >your garden variety federation style! >and don't take your kids to this site! tut tut, that owner looks too young >to be creating this sort of thing! >on second thought... maybe age has something to do with it! ;-) > >Katie > > > > > > > > > > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 15:00:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:41:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 16:31:01 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr9.20311.0> Precedence: bulk Bud Britt's enquiring mind wants to know: >Are you sure Desag is out of Business? They were/are part of Schott Glass, >and from what I have heard from the West Coast Manager, they are still >around. Lemme see, somebody posted about that not too long ago......... Yup, found it, here's what's happenin' with Desag (according to pj friend, March 19, 1999): ------------------------------------------------- Desag is owned by Shultz Glass. About six months ago or so they stopped making hand-blown glass. Shut down the studio completely. So the Desag before was all hand-blown . Lamberts built a new studio and hired all the Desag guys and are going to reproduce the hand-blown again. All those great colors......I can't wait. ------------------------------------------------- Sounds to me like Desag may still be out there but not doing hand-blown any more????? Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 15:14:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:17:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: red.... Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 17:15:06 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.13156.0> Precedence: bulk It is beautiful...... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 15:33:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:35:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Pa. glass... Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 17:35:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.13357.0> Precedence: bulk I picked mine up last summer on a trip up to Youg. Station.....I didn't get to tour plant...it was Sunday....I really want to go back.....maybe a side trip from WC'S "Vissions" weekend????? Abbie in Va. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 15:44:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:39:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 22:38:12 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990409223812.007a53f0@mailhost.stainedglass.co.uk> References: <<1999Apr9.103653.0>> Precedence: bulk At 14:36 09/04/99 -0400, Dani wrote: I'd be interested in hearing more about >that and also >what the latest is with Hartley Wood in England..... Hartley Wood is dead but the new company being set up in its place (we hope) is to be known as Sunderland Glass I hear. Our supplier is expecting delivery of stocks of glass any day now and has promised to let us know soonest just what has arrived and whether it is as good as the old HW glass. Fingers crossed! EliZabeth Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 15:57:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:50:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: iconn.net!tbyrnes From: Tim Byrnes To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Thank you to All Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 17:48:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.134810.0> Precedence: bulk Hi , Just wanted to ackowledge to everyone that I appreciated, all the responses to my reguest to be added to the list. Thank you again, Tim Byrnes ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 16:09:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:59:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Ken & Barbara Larie Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Mailing list Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 17:43:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.134323.0> Precedence: bulk You'll have to wait until Monday since the list administrator, Glenna Ran= d is in = Las Vegas at the Glass Expo. Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 16:14:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:01:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: Ensembles@compuserve.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Re: It's Red...... Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 17:47:35 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr9.214735.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/9/99 4:22:40 PM, Ensembles@compuserve.com wrote: >Sparks >will verify that I'm a sucker for that ripple stuff. She calls the >Yough pure cathedral red ripple the "666" glass (as in >the mark of the beast from Revelations). But I like it. Guess >that makes me the glass cutter from h*ll. Hey, I love the way it looks! I'm also generous enough not to deny you the sheer pleasure of cutting it all yourself :-) Actually, the Yough pink ice was the "original 666 glass." I think we got hold of a particularly tough sheet of the stuff during the CHOP mosaic project. Wouldn't break straight to save its life. The red ripple cathedral is nasty in a different way - it's some of the *splinteriest* stuff.......... Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 16:24:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:06:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: glass@bungi.com, Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 14:43:47 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.74347.0> References: <<1999Apr9.223731.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk Steve Richard wrote: > > I know I'll get a few brick bats about this but... > I don't find the gushing approval for the works on this site justified. > To me it shows the use of the image of women as means to get attention. > > um, Steve, isnt the point that MOST works of art are designed to "get attention"...??? I mean if someone uses some bright colors in a way no one else has before or an unusual design or something isnt the whole point to get attention??? I see "getting attention" as something that can be good in this way or it can be bad in a sort of juvenile sense...is that what you mean, that this guy is just acting like a horny 13 year old who has just discovered girls???? Or that he just wants to shock and upset people??? It seems if someones goal is to shock and upset people they could go about it in a lot more blatant manner....dont get me wrong, I think there are "artists" out there who have a whole ax to grind with society and that rather than pumping out works that seem to just scream out "f...you" to the world they might spend their time more wisely getting to the bottom of their anger and their need to artisticly speaking flip the world the bird.....but I dont think thats what this guy is doing here...actually his works in glass reminded me of Nagel....dont remember his first name but I seem to have seen an awful lot of his paintings all over the place of beautiful women, admittedly clothed as opposed to unclothed, but this stuff seemed to be in about the same spirit..... Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 16:44:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:44:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ipa.net!gecko From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Mailing list Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:51:54 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.125154.0> Precedence: bulk >I can't deal with >this kind of traffic, no time. Thank you for putting me on, and Thank >you even more for taking me off. Barbara Larie columbine@net-port.com. Sounds like a personal problem to me. Being that this backhanded thank you is the only post I ever saw from the woman, I can confidently say *I'm* glad we won't be hearing more from her. Next time I post.. I'll be nicer. Promise!! Blake :-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 17:04:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:54:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cros.net!soraya From: "Soraya" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:52:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.145224.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D1_01BE82BA.1B5C14E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am really torn about responding to this....but since I originally = replied I guess I should..... >>I know I'll get a few brick bats about this but... Oh, I doubt brick bats.......(*S*) Maybe just a few foam rubber = opinions?!? >>I don't find the gushing approval for the works on this site = justified. While I personally like this style of work, I don't think stating my = personal opinion that I do, counts as 'gushing approval'. =20 >>To me it shows the use of the image of women as means to get = attention. This I do not understand. A "means to get attention"? Are you saying = that all artwork that uses the form of women (nude or not?) is just an = attention ploy by the artist? (That discounts at least 50% most museum = collections.) and many of pieces. While the popular media sometimes = inappropriately pushes 'sex' to sell what ever product they are hawking = this week....I do not think the use of sensuous themes is a 'ploy'...but = more an issue the artist is exploring for the piece of art work. To = me...there is a big difference. (This is a comment about art in = general...not only about this site.)=20 I thoroughly understand that this style may not be to your liking, and I = respect your choices in that regard. However I found it most refreshing = to see someone trying to capture other artistic styles in glass. Quite = frankly, I am sick of (though I do like many of them) all the flowers, = birds and landscapes you see in stained glass. Variety is the spice of = life!!=20 Take Care, Soraya PS: See! No brick bats! Is it my turn to start ducking? (LOL) ------=_NextPart_000_00D1_01BE82BA.1B5C14E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am really torn about responding to = this....but=20 since I originally replied I guess I should.....
 
>>I know I'll get a few brick bats about this but...
 
Oh, I doubt brick = bats.......(*S*)  =20 Maybe just a few foam rubber opinions?!?

>>I don't find the gushing approval for the works on this = site=20 justified.
While I personally like this style of work, I don't = think stating my=20 personal opinion that I do, counts as 'gushing approval'. 
 
>>To me it shows the use of the = image of=20 women as means to get attention.
 
This I do not understand. A "means to = get=20 attention"? Are you saying that all artwork that uses the form of women = (nude or=20 not?) is just an attention ploy by the artist? (That discounts at least = 50% most=20 museum collections.) and many of pieces. While the popular media = sometimes=20 inappropriately pushes 'sex' to sell what ever product they are hawking = this=20 week....I do not think the use of sensuous themes is a 'ploy'...but more = an=20 issue the artist is exploring for the piece of art work. To me...there = is a big=20 difference. (This is a comment about art in general...not only about = this site.)=20

I thoroughly understand that this style may not be to your liking, = and I=20 respect your choices in that regard. However I found it most refreshing = to see=20 someone trying to capture other artistic styles in glass. Quite frankly, = I am=20 sick of (though I do like many of them) all the flowers, birds and = landscapes=20 you see in stained glass. Variety is the spice of life!! =

Take Care,
Soraya
 
PS:  See! No brick bats!  Is = it my turn=20 to start ducking? (LOL)
------=_NextPart_000_00D1_01BE82BA.1B5C14E0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 17:47:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 16:24:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Family Account Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Rapid Set Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 19:18:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.151851.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Family Account >But Rapid Set ain't Quickcrete! Dorothy < Okay, everybody, I know that Rapid Set is not Quickcrete! My point is...= From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 17:59:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 16:06:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 19:00:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.15039.0> Precedence: bulk Hartley wood laid off all its workers and closed the factory. There was such a clamor that people wanted the glass that they reopened the factory. The older workers who were the masters behind the glass decided that they rather liked retirement and when asked to come back declined. So its all new people doing the work. From what I heard....not anything near the old Hartley Wood. What a pity. my best, pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: studio@stainedglass.co.uk To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, April 09, 1999 6:56 PM Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines >At 14:36 09/04/99 -0400, Dani wrote: > I'd be interested in hearing more about >>that and also >>what the latest is with Hartley Wood in England..... > >Hartley Wood is dead but the new company being set up in its place (we >hope) is to be known as Sunderland Glass I hear. >Our supplier is expecting delivery of stocks of glass any day now and has >promised to let us know soonest just what has arrived and whether it is as >good as the old HW glass. >Fingers crossed! >EliZabeth >Bournemouth Stained Glass >http://www.stainedglass.co.uk >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 18:10:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 17:01:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cyberportal.net!dmj From: "Dean Johnson" To: "Bungi List" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Suggestions for a stop Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 19:58:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.155831.0> References: <<1999Apr9.151516.0>> Precedence: bulk > Wonder > if it isn't really wood. Could be. I bought a large round oak frame which came with a piece of wicker (like the stuff used to make furniture) to use as a stop to hold in the panel. It is about 1/4" in diameter and bends to a round shape readily, but since it would rather be straight it provides outward pressure against the sides of the frame. Perhaps you could pick some up where they sell supplies for caning chairs, or from someone who does chair caning. Just a thought. Elizabeth Johnson dmj@cyberportal.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 20:46:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:14:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Arnie Bazensky" , Subject: Desag Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 17:52:26 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.105226.0> Precedence: bulk Hello Everyone, I just looked up some literature that Mr. Arnie Bazensky (West Coast Manager of Schott Glass, Germany) gave me. On the back page, it reads DESAG with their logo, and below it, "A Schott Group Company" The contact info is: Deutsche Spezialglass AG P.O. Box 2032 W-3223 Grunenplan Germany Telephone (0 51 87) 7 71-530 Telefax (0 51 87) 771547 Telex 175187810 desag d Teletex 5187810=DESAG I do not know if the mouthblown glass is still being made, although I am sure that if you would like to contact Arnie directly, he would be able to find out, and perhaps get a lead on some for you. Arnie Bazensky E-mail Address(es): ajb.sgt-west@worldnet.att.net Arnie, folks from the Bungi Stained Glass mailing list, might be asking about the DESAG glass. Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 21:06:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:15:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:01:55 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.11155.0> Precedence: bulk Not sure if anyone followed his favorite links,,, It would seem that his material comes from this subject area, EROTIC FANTASY Most of the stuff is airbrush work,,, Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, April 09, 1999 04:36 PM Subject: Re: Mermaid |Steve Richard wrote: |> |> I know I'll get a few brick bats about this but... |> I don't find the gushing approval for the works on this site justified. |> To me it shows the use of the image of women as means to get attention. |> |> |um, Steve, isnt the point that MOST works of art are designed to "get |attention"...??? I mean if someone uses some bright colors in a way no |one else has before or an unusual design or something isnt the whole |point to get attention??? I see "getting attention" as something that |can be good in this way or it can be bad in a sort of juvenile |sense...is that what you mean, that this guy is just acting like a horny |13 year old who has just discovered girls???? Or that he just wants to |shock and upset people??? It seems if someones goal is to shock and |upset people they could go about it in a lot more blatant manner....dont |get me wrong, I think there are "artists" out there who have a whole ax |to grind with society and that rather than pumping out works that seem |to just scream out "f...you" to the world they might spend their time |more wisely getting to the bottom of their anger and their need to |artisticly speaking flip the world the bird.....but I dont think thats |what this guy is doing here...actually his works in glass reminded me of |Nagel....dont remember his first name but I seem to have seen an awful |lot of his paintings all over the place of beautiful women, admittedly |clothed as opposed to unclothed, but this stuff seemed to be in about |the same spirit..... | |Liz |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 21:16:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:52:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Soraya Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 20:58:23 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.155823.0> References: <<1999Apr9.145224.0>> Precedence: bulk I think it is clear that he likes the female form...and exploring ;o) it artistically. Seems like a pretty alright thing for a 24 yr old young man to be doing to me. I enjoyed the site. T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 21:28:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 19:51:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 22:21:48 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr10.22148.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/9/99 4:45:04 PM, s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk wrote: >I know I'll get a few brick bats about this but... >I don't find the gushing approval for the works on this site justified. >To me it shows the use of the image of women as means to get attention. I'm not crazy about the "contemporary graphic art" style of the designs; that style in general is rather too hard-edged to qualify as really "sexy" in my POV. Aside from that, I think they're well done and *way* more tasteful than the hostile shock-em-if-you-can't-rock-em stuff you see coming from a lot of post-punk-grunge-and-anime influenced "younger" artists. Just my 2 brass farthings' worth.......... Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 21:40:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 19:51:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Pa. glass... Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 22:38:25 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr10.23825.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/9/99 5:33:44 PM, ABBIE23875@prodigy.net wrote: >I really want to go back.....maybe a side >trip from WC'S "Vissions" weekend????? Abbie in Va. It''d be quite a side trip....... Yough is south of Pittsburgh, WC is north of Philly. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 21:46:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 19:54:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr From: CncptThnkr@aol.com To: gecko@ipa.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Mailing list Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 22:51:50 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr10.25150.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/9/99 7:44:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gecko@ipa.net writes: > I can't deal with > >this kind of traffic, no time. Thank you for putting me on, and Thank > >you even more for taking me off. Barbara Larie columbine@net-port.com. > > > Sounds like a personal problem to me. Being that this backhanded thank you > is the only post I ever saw from the woman, I can confidently say *I'm* glad > we won't be hearing more from her. > Hey Blake, "Thank you for putting me on, and Thank you even more for taking me off. That was my favorite part, it sounded as though she thought bungi reached out and grabbed her........there is quite a difference between being embraced and being grabbed isn't there? IA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 21:51:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 20:00:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr From: CncptThnkr@aol.com To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Suggestions for a stop Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 22:59:09 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr10.2599.0> Precedence: bulk n a message dated 4/9/99 12:48:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Classydad@aol.com writes: > Would think that pine or other wood would break before it would bend to that > opening. Hey Keith, You can't bend pine unless you wanted to laminate very thin strips together, which imho really wouldn't be worth it for your project. I have a book on making oval and round picture frames and I assume the same technique would work for your project. The method they used is to miter short lengths of wood (you need to decide the cutting angle and number of pieces based on the size of the circle you are trying to achieve) and glue them together in a "circular" shape. You can use a saw to make a perfect circle both inside and out, then router the inside top edge to take the "sharp" edge off. If you want better directions, let me know, I'll dig out the book. IA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 22:05:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 20:12:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: hotmail.com!winstonga From: "Winston Winston" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Must Leave the State Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 20:11:02 PDT Message-ID: <1999Apr10.3112.0> Precedence: bulk Thank you for the great response on my question about the quality of the various types of glass and the use of spectrum in tiffany lamps. Those sheets of glass that are compared to "erotic meltdown" probably cannot be legally purchased in the state of Utah. So I am wearing dark glasses, an overcoat, and heading out of state. ;-) I noticed an article in the new Glass Craftsman about Monona Rossol. Is this the same Monona who has contributed to this list on lead safety? It is a nice article, but was too short. Buck _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 9 23:04:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 22:00:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cros.net!soraya From: "Soraya" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 01:00:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.2103.0> References: <<1999Apr9.11155.0>> Precedence: bulk This will be the last I say on the subject....as I guess my view points are not the main stream (well...I kinda knew that all ready! (*G*) )...but ..... I personally...for me and my family only.... do not, can not, find anything on this site offensive....erotica in art has a long, honest history (shall we talk about the Pompeian mosaics?)....but if it bothers anyone...all I can recommend is don't look....He states up frount and direct that this material is there....(the person who posted the link also mentioned this)...Sorry if that seems harsh and I guess I should apologize...but it is how I feel this late at night. If this was exploitive, hardcore pornography being directed at children...I would not be saying this.....but I make a distinction. His stained glass is unique in my opinion............I don't care what his favorite links are...I did not look at them all (surfed to a few) but did see "Mike's Stained Glass" ....we all need to watch out for that one!! lol) I am just glad that we all live in a world where we can safely have different opinions. Take Care, Soraya ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ The Witches' Thicket at http://www.cros.net/soraya ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Knock on the sky and listen to the sound! --Zen Saying ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 00:09:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 23:12:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 23:11:58 -0700 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk *Images* of nudity portraited artistically are within the realms of real life. (But much like pornagraphic books lying on shelfs everywhere)...if it offends you DON'T PICK IT UP/TURN A BLIND EYE. Artistically a woman decided to build a shadow box of her aboration(SP?) (somewhat) naturally of a child,... the last shadow box showed a used tampon!!! This piece of art had much disgust thru out BC, Canada...some parts would not regonially accept her acclaimed work thru the noted ARTISTS realm.... Cindy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 01:09:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 00:16:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: , Subject: Re: Suggestions for a stop Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 22:20:07 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr9.15207.0> Precedence: bulk I just looked in the BELVELDINE CAME CRAFT INC. catalog (714) 894-8779, and they sell a frame stop. From catalog. Panel Retainer Cord A flexible easy to use cord that can be stapled or nailed in place to hold your glass panel securely in frame. Especially good for curved frames. Available in lengths of 50 FT ($18.00) and 100 Ft. ($32.00) dimensions 1/4" by 1/4" It looks like quarter round in side view. I buy most of my glass from them, they got the best selection that I have found, and they work with me on cost, since I can't afford a lot at a time, since I am on disability. Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: CncptThnkr@aol.com To: Glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, April 09, 1999 10:03 PM Subject: Re: Suggestions for a stop |n a message dated 4/9/99 12:48:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Classydad@aol.com |writes: | |> Would think that pine or other wood would break before it would bend to |that |> opening. | |Hey Keith, | |You can't bend pine unless you wanted to laminate very thin strips together, |which imho really wouldn't be worth it for your project. I have a book on |making oval and round picture frames and I assume the same technique would |work for your project. The method they used is to miter short lengths of |wood (you need to decide the cutting angle and number of pieces based on the |size of the circle you are trying to achieve) and glue them together in a |"circular" shape. You can use a saw to make a perfect circle both inside and |out, then router the inside top edge to take the "sharp" edge off. If you |want better directions, let me know, I'll dig out the book. | |IA | | |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 03:40:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 02:47:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Monona Rossol Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 05:53:22 +0000 Message-ID: <199904100945.FAA22775@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > I noticed an article in the new Glass Craftsman about Monona Rossol. > Is this the same Monona who has contributed to this list on lead > safety? Yep. There's only *one Monona. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 04:11:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 02:48:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Desag Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 05:53:22 +0000 Message-ID: <199904100945.FAA22848@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Deutsche Spezialglass AG That's where the name of the glass comes from: DE (is the contraction for Germany in German) S (for special glass) and AG for (Aktiengesellschaft ... "incorporated" in other words) Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 05:11:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:07:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: computerministry@unitytustin.org, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Neat site if you got the time ;-) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 07:05:27 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr10.11527.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/7/99 10:47:35 PM !!!First Boot!!!, Bud Britt writes: << Subj: Neat site if you got the time ;-) > What a SITE to send fellow bungians!!! Trying to really SHAKE US UP, Bud?! Woah! IRS! Don't want to go there, no way, no how!! Thanks for the belated April Fool's joke! Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 05:19:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:12:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: scci.net!melissah From: Melissa Hall To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 07:07:57 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19990410070757.006a0364@scci.net> References: <<1999Apr9.11155.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi all, This guy really needs to join the list! I know if a site of mine was generating this long of a thread I'd want to be here enjoying it! Melissa ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 06:14:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 05:02:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: nbnet.nb.ca!mschut From: mschut@nbnet.nb.ca (mschut) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: help with soldering Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:09:28 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990410080928.2d3fc8be@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca> Precedence: bulk i have been doing stained glass for a while using the copper foil technique, but I can't seem to get my solder joints very smooth. Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong? Am I using too much flux or is the 7/32" foil too thick for glass? This has really been bugging me for a while. I mostly do suncatchers and larger (18 x 24) window units. I have done some windows, serving trays and fan lamps also, but run into the same problem with every one. I use the weller 100 watt temp controlled iron with a #7, 1/4" tip. Any insight on this from anyone? Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & ????? Schut Moncton, New Brunswick ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 07:16:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 06:05:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: The E-tour Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 14:03:44 +0000 Message-ID: <199904101304.NAA25081@saturn> Precedence: bulk Hi all, Getting quite a number of messages like this one from "Blake" and am very much looking forward to meeting up with you. Pamela Burns-Tappan is working hard on updating the E-Tour web site as things are happening. So do keep visiting it..... (Pam.....by the way.... can you help me with turning the "up-dates" into black on white for me, as you did the first few pages for print-outs....). May I also draw your attention to the fact that the list of studios sponsoring me (and The E-Tour) has now been added to by our very own Dani and Michael Greer and that I am very excited about meeting up with them as well. (Though she turned down my job application, sniffed at my broom, made some strange comments about something called a "chuck-wagon" and then reined in my services to a local touring theatre company..... or was it a circus?? Ah well..., I will have a lot to look forward to!) Please All, keep on posting who will be attending where, as it will also help me to know where I will be likely to meet up with whom. I have been a proud "Bunginian" for 3.5 years now and this will also be MY chance of meeting so many of you - face to face- that I have got to know so well during these years. Excited?? ME??? NAHHH!! 'Course not!! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK In response to: > From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" > To: "Bungi" > Subject: The E-tour > Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:34:44 -0600 > Wouldn't ya know it.... the DAY AFTER, I spent all my money upgradgin my > computer, the e-tour is finished and ready to accept reservations!! Aaghhh! > > So... providing there are still reservations available for Kansas City, MO, > by my next paycheck... (living hand to mouth is hell, aint it?)... that is > where I plan to attend the E-tour workshop. > > I haven't seen any others of you out there mentioning the Kansas City > workshop. Any of you planning on going to that one? > > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 07:28:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 06:05:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: tv tutu sighting! Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 14:03:44 +0000 Message-ID: <199904101304.NAA25088@saturn> Precedence: bulk Hi All, I am delighted to hear that Patrick is seriously considering the dress-rehearsal (pun intended!) for the E-Tour. However, I am just a little concerned......; DO I pack a white coat with fetching leather straps in my luggage?? Will my budget stretch to cover the cost of a personal body-guard?? Has Patrick had his anti-rabies vaccination this year?? jus' wondering.... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK (The former = The "E-Tour"!) judy novak wrote: > Let it be know that our very own Patrick Kelly was seen on public > television! He did a fine job of representing stained glass in our > local area. > I personally want to thank you Patrick for your involvement in our > community and your hours of dedication. You are the kind of people that > make our community and hence our country so great! Thanks so much! > The jewels on the fringed edges of the cobalt blue tutu added such a > sparkle. I was in total awe of your gracefulness, your poise......... > until the very end when you threw that old lady to the floor and > wrestled the mike from her screaming "I want to tell them, I want to > tell them!!!!!!!!" and they cut to commercial. > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 07:42:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 06:12:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Pa. glass... Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 09:12:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.51217.0> References: <<1999Apr10.23825.0>> Precedence: bulk But it's all highway, I believe, including a tunnel under the mountains (went through it once with a semi on my tail...fun?). I am thinking about going to Connelsville (or the area) in the week before Glass Visions, as a vacation. Dorothy Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/9/99 5:33:44 PM, ABBIE23875@prodigy.net wrote: > > >I really want to go back.....maybe a side > >trip from WC'S "Vissions" weekend????? Abbie in Va. > > It''d be quite a side trip....... Yough is south of Pittsburgh, WC is north > of Philly. > > Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 08:27:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 07:06:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "bungi group" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: RE: Mermaid Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 09:57:38 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.55738.0> Precedence: bulk I am impressed and Paul says those are the things he has wanted to do for years. For a guy of such a young age he is quite talented. And after I rethink that sentence .......skip the age....for someone working in glass this guy is really talented. I don't know how this work could offend anyone. Loved the guys Halloween outfits!!! pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. PJ and Paul Friend www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: Steve Fairbairn To: 'Stained Glass Mailing List' Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 6:03 PM Subject: RE: RE: Mermaid >His links page lists a spinal cord injury site and the description of >the site mentions that he is paralyzed and been in a wheelchair for 7 >years. His picture page shows him sitting in a wheelchair. > >Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nadine Beth Schneider >[mailto:nadinesfolly@erols.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 2:48 PM > To: Steve Fairbairn > Subject: re: RE: Mermaid > > I just went to his bio and it says he just graduated >from UT. > Did I miss something? > > Nadine > > > > ** Original Subject: RE: Mermaid > > ** Original Sender: Steve Fairbairn > > > ** Original Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:32:55 -0700 > > > ** Original Message follows... > > > > > I found nothing offensive or even slightly >pornographic about his work. > > In fact, I was very impressed by his designs. Did >anyone checking out > > his site notice that he is paralyzed and has been >living in a wheelchair > > for the past 7 years? > > > > Steve > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ktsplash >[mailto:ktsplash@mpx.com.au] > > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 8:48 AM > > To: Bungi List > > Subject: Mermaid > > > > seen this page of women portrayed in >glass? if not, > > check it out > > beautiful designs and future designs > > http://kaneida.home.texas.net/ > > be warned - husbands will be more >appreciative of some > > of these designs than > > your garden variety federation style! > > and don't take your kids to this site! >tut tut, that > > owner looks too young > > to be creating this sort of thing! > > on second thought... maybe age has >something to do with > > it! ;-) > > > > Katie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail >to: > > glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail >to: > > glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at >http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: >glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: >glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > >** --------- End Original Message ----------- ** > > > > > www.nadinesfolly.com >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 09:44:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:18:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: NG: TuTu Sighting Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:20:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.5208.0> Precedence: bulk <> Well she wouldn't let go of the mike. I was holding my own until she (unfairly) picked up her walker and hit me with it, then the fight was on. Earlier she made a rude comment about my attire, something about how unbecoming it was for a man to wear fringe. Don't let that blue hair fool you ... she was wiry. I still have the marks on my neck from her trying to strangle me with those support hose. She tried to pull my hair but all she got was a hand full of scalp. Her twin sister joined the fray and it was inhumane what they did to me. Blue hair, walkers, print dresses, crocheted collars, fringe, glass, mike cords, etc. The TV crew finally had to break us up.... just when I was getting the upper hand..... . Oh well, as the Terminator says, "Next time baby". Beware this was a warm-up for when that "Brit Chick" visits. Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 09:47:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:35:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Same Monona? Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:33:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.7330.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Winston Winston" >I noticed an article in the new Glass Craftsman about Monona Rossol. = Is this the same Monona who has contributed to this list on lead = safety? It is a nice article, but was too short.< Yes, indeed, 'tis she. She's also on the Board of Advisors of IGGA (International Guild of Glass Artists). Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 10:02:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:48:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: mschut Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: help with soldering Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:47:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.74728.0> References: <<3.0.1.16.19990410080928.2d3fc8be@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>> Precedence: bulk mschut wrote: > > i have been doing stained glass for a while using the copper foil > technique, but I can't seem to get my solder joints very smooth. Can > anyone tell me what I am doing wrong? Am I using too much flux or is the > 7/32" foil too thick for glass? This has really been bugging me for a while. > > I mostly do suncatchers and larger (18 x 24) window units. I have done > some windows, serving trays and fan lamps also, but run into the same > problem with every one. I use the weller 100 watt temp controlled iron > with a #7, 1/4" tip. Any insight on this from anyone? > Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & ????? Schut > Moncton, New Brunswick > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it could be a bunch of things: - too much flu - too little flux - not enough heat - the foil may be old and it's not letting the flux work - the flux may be too old - the flux may be contaminated (using a new bottle pour it in to a smaller one and use it from that. - the solder may not be pure (don't use plumber's grade) - you may be pulling it too fast and not letting the heat build up could you explain what the solder looks like after it's done? this will help with the diagnoses. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 10:20:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 09:01:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Update on PBS Auction Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:03:12 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.6312.0> Precedence: bulk The Auction went well. I'll post more when I know more. Words, of course, cannot describe the beauty of these pieces. I was mesmerized by each one. But I thought I would tell everyone what wonderful people and great artist helped: Glass and Goodies (Judy Novak, Trish Baker, Linda Goodenough), Temple, TX Large framed CKE pattern of the Teddy Bears cuddling I think its called Cuddle Time. Job glass for the couch, different browns for each bear, the paws had black pads glue to the bottoms. Just....WOW! Molly Keys, Copperas Cove, TX A 3D floral arrangement with Irises, a Bluebonnet (state flower of Texas), a bird, and a rose, all set in a beveled glass frame. It was just gorgeous. Marti Woodard, Harker Heights, TX Cobalt blue star design with an oval bevel in the middle, a fused and painted bluebonnet on the oval, decorative soldered seams.....exciting to the eyes. Patrick(me) of course A brown cowboy boot, with a white diamond design, set alongside a flowering cactus. The brown boot was textured glass, the green cactus was Wissmach (textured), red flowers at the top, all surrounded by jade baroque, and framed in solid oak. My thanks to all my friends and fellow artist who helped. The hours and hours of work and expense is truly appreciated by myself and the local community. You really made it a success. Even the people answering the telephones were bidding on the glass. Again ..... Thanks for all the help and the exquisite masterpieces you donated. Now back to my cantankerous old self. Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 11:22:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:05:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Erotic Meltdown and preg Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:09:47 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.7947.0> References: <<1999Apr10.53857.0>> Precedence: bulk > Fair warning Sparks, > > If my wife ends up pregnant because of this thread you'll hear from my > liar... er lawyer. > Could this be the first maternity suit? > > Vic M. > vmodiano@ctronsoft.com > > PS Don't worry I'll settle for a new soldering iron and some glass. > Lol..Vic, if it takes Bungi to create that risk, your wife might just want to send us a thank you note! ;o) Not to mention a plea for us to email you more often! T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 13:52:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:56:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: High art/Low art Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:54:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.115441.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@localhost > High art is what brings you pleasure (erotic meltdowns and lesser feeling= s) just looking at it or knowing it is there. Low art is the stuff that matches the couch. < Mmmmm, I might argue with you on that one since I've made my reputation o= n sofa paintings.... deliberately and somewhat irreverantly I'll admit. About half my work is owned by other artists, a good number of them so-called "cutting edge". = I think the difference between high art and low art deals in large part with several factors: 1. Is it original 2. Is it well-rendered (does it show some skill) 3. How wou= ld it stack up = hanging in a museum next to some masterpieces? There are more, but that'= s a start. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios "Craft is art that has to work for a living..." ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 14:23:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:57:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: High art/Low art Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:54:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.115446.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@localhost >if you don't understand it, it is not real. = < I have a lot of art history under my belt from college, and I'll be the first to admit I don't understand much of it... but, I would be very hesitant to say it is not real! History will make that determination. Frank Lloyd Wright's visionary homes left entir= e neighborhoods aghast... and times haven't changed that much. Wright's granddaughter, L= iz Ingraham, is a practicing architect in my town and continues the family pattern of breaking tradition. A few years ago, we donated a jacuzzi window to the Holiday House fundraiser and the folks who bought the house were up-in-arms because Liz was designing the home on a nearby property - and it was going to include in it's design several out-buildings! Broke the neighborhood pattern of honker-house-with-four-car-attached-garage. My, my.... Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 14:40:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:59:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: tv tutu sighting! NG Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:54:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.115451.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@localhost >May be Toby will accept it in place of a Bio this weekend? < Hey, did we ever get a bio from Patrick? Maybe we should all start hounding HIM! Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 14:53:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 13:00:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: High art/low art Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:54:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.115448.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@localhost >You like it, you hate it, it makes you laugh, cry, want to hug someone.< How about if it makes you throw up? Is it still art? Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 14:58:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 13:03:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bio # 98 Shiela H. Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:04:33 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.10433.0> Precedence: bulk Well Mr. Kelly I figured I had better get this bio to you before you bust that tutu you have been wearing. Hello to everyone! I have been a major lurker on bungi for about 9 months now. My name is Sheila H. and I now reside in the state of Ohio. Southeastern Ohio to be exact. I have been and still am happily married for 14 yrs. to a wonderful man...have to stroke the male egos here....and have three children...rugrats...pain in the butts...oh excuse me that is on bad days only...two boys and one girl whom I might add is very spoiled by her daddy of course. I got into doing stain glass about 4 years ago when we were living in Texas. Hubby was a military man for 25 yrs. before we...noticed I said we....retired two yrs. ago and came home to raise the kids. Anyways...while in Texas my hubby took a stain glass class and I became hooked! Had him take the classes and then he came home and retaught me everything he had learned. I still consider myself a hobbyist. I do sell some of my work but mostly just do glass for personal relaxation and gifts. While in Texas I did a few commissions but since returning to Ohio I have been a little lax in doing glass as I took a job this yr. at my daughters school and glass has been put on the back burner so to speak. I have self taught myself how to do mosaics and love doing them. Hey it uses up alot of my scrap glass what can I say. At the present time I am working on my first lamp....yes I said first one! It is a prairie lamp that is really coming along nicely if I do say so myself. I also have done several 3d birdhouses and hummingbirds that I sell. These items keep me supplied with glass. I want all the bungians to know how much I enjoy this forum. I truely have learned and laughed alot from this group. Please keep up the good work. Still lurking in Ohio Sheila Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 15:06:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 13:07:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bio # 99 Mary Austin Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:09:24 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.10924.0> Precedence: bulk I think you have mine but here goes. I live in Greenwood Indiana and have been doing stained glass now for about 5 years. I'm disabled and this was my saving grace after a surgery losing my large. intestine and colon. I died on the table on them. I have several serious illness in which I can not work out side the home.I'm also legally blind, but thankfully the company my husband works for donated a large. magnifying light for me to see by and that helps alot. We have one daughter stationed in England in the air force. She's been overseas for the last 6 years. She will be coming state side this June and I'll be grateful for that. My husband is a machinist and a good one. He does woodworking on the side. WE sell very little and most end up as gifts. But that's OK too. One day I hope to be able to sell to the public more than what I do now. I just need the self confidence that I do it good enough. But I have taken 1st in the fairs I've entered here so that's a good start. We have one adopted son who also works with my husband. I'm blessed by the Good Lord in that he is allowing me to pursue the art that I majored in in high school. What a chance given to me. Now to get off my butt and use it. I truly enjoy reading and learning from each and every one in this group. Mary Austin Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 15:31:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 14:20:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Pkelly" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: NG: TuTu Sighting Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:17:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.131742.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Pkelly" >Blue hair, walkers, print dresses, crocheted collars, fringe, glass, mike cords, etc.< Don't forget the chuck wagons... E. is quaking in her shoes! Patrick, we really should have you out to visit us in Colorado while Elisabeth is here.... Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 15:43:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 14:23:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: mschut Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: help with soldering Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:17:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.131729.0> Precedence: bulk The Weller 100 doesn't retain heat long enough to do any kind of long solder runs.... it's great for lead joints and small foil jobs. But, for= larger panels we use the Weller SP-175, a much beefier iron.... for really big panels you can't beat the Hexacon irons. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 16:27:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:15:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: High art/low art Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:13:55 +0000 Message-ID: <199904102206.SAA01429@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > How about if it makes you throw up? Is it still art? Especially then, particularly if it's priced over $50,000. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 16:40:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:16:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: discover.earthlink.net!leslye2 From: Leslye Nelson To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: anyone take credit cards? Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:15:56 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.141556.0> Precedence: bulk Do any of you that do art shows take credit cards? If so, who is your bankcard service provider? I looked on the net and have no idea who is good (& to trust) and who is not. Thanks, Leslye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 16:50:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:21:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "Pkelly" , Subject: Re: Bio # 98 Shiela H. Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:08:02 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.1482.0> Precedence: bulk Shiela, Welcome, this is a great group of very talented people. Linda Jo -----Original Message----- From: Pkelly To: glass@bungi.com Date: Saturday, April 10, 1999 5:58 PM Subject: Bio # 98 Shiela H. >Well Mr. Kelly I figured I had better get this bio to you before you >bust that tutu you have been wearing. > >Hello to everyone! I have been a major lurker on bungi for about 9 >months now. My name is Sheila H. and I now reside in the state of >Ohio. Southeastern Ohio to be exact. I have been and still am happily >married for 14 yrs. to a wonderful man...have to stroke the male egos >here....and have three children...rugrats...pain in the butts...oh >excuse me that is on bad days only...two boys and one girl whom I might >add is very spoiled by her daddy of course. I got into doing stain >glass about 4 years ago when we were living in Texas. Hubby was a >military man for 25 yrs. before we...noticed I said we....retired two >yrs. ago and came home to raise the kids. Anyways...while in Texas my >hubby took a stain glass class and I became hooked! Had him take the >classes and then he came home and retaught me everything he had >learned. I still consider myself a hobbyist. I do sell some of my >work but mostly just do glass for personal relaxation and gifts. While >in Texas I did a few commissions but since returning to Ohio I have been >a little lax in doing glass as I took a job this yr. at my daughters >school and glass has been put on the back burner so to speak. I have >self taught myself how to do mosaics and love doing them. Hey it uses >up alot of my scrap glass what can I say. At the present time I am >working on my first lamp....yes I said first one! It is a prairie lamp >that is really coming along nicely if I do say so myself. I also have >done several 3d birdhouses and hummingbirds that I sell. These items >keep me supplied with glass. I want all the bungians to know how much >I enjoy this forum. I truely have learned and laughed alot from this >group. Please keep up the good work. > >Still lurking in Ohio >Sheila > >Patrick >Roses and Rainbows > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 16:58:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:29:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: Subject: Re: Bio # 99 Mary Austin Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:29:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.14294.0> Precedence: bulk Mary, I admire your strength to continue to do what you love to do. You are an inspiration. Glass is my escape too. I love reading what the diverse folks in this group have to say and share. I have learned a lot from folks so willing to share their expertise. Linda Jo -----Original Message----- From: Pkelly To: glass@bungi.com Date: Saturday, April 10, 1999 6:08 PM Subject: Bio # 99 Mary Austin >I think you have mine but here goes. I live in Greenwood Indiana and >have been doing stained glass now for about 5 years. I'm disabled and >this was my saving grace after a surgery losing my large. intestine and >colon. I died on the table on them. I have several serious illness in >which I can not work out side the home.I'm also legally blind, but >thankfully the company my husband works for donated a large. magnifying >light for me to see by and that helps alot. We have one daughter >stationed in England in the air force. She's been overseas for the last >6 years. She will be coming state side this June and I'll be grateful >for that. My husband is a machinist and a good one. He does >woodworking on the side. WE sell very little and most end up as gifts. >But that's OK too. One day I hope to be able to sell to the public more >than what I do now. I just need the self confidence that I do it good >enough. But I have taken 1st in the fairs I've entered here so that's a >good start. We have one adopted son who also works with my husband. I'm >blessed by the Good Lord in that he is allowing me to pursue the art >that I majored in in high school. What a chance given to me. Now to get >off my butt and use it. I truly enjoy reading and learning from each >and every one in this group. > >Mary Austin > >Patrick >Roses and Rainbows > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 17:30:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:16:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Pkelly" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Bio # 99 Mary Austin Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:10:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.151059.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Pkelly" >What a chance given to me. Now to get off my butt and use it.< Don't feel alone, Mary. I feel this way more times than I care to count!= = Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 17:59:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:43:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Albert Lewis Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: High art/low art Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:49:01 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.13491.0> References: <<199904102206.SAA01429@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte Albert Lewis wrote: > > > How about if it makes you throw up? Is it still art? > > Especially then, particularly if it's priced over $50,000. > > Albert I'm gonna have to raise my prices! You are the second person today to tell me that the higher the price the more it is valued. I guess I truly am an odd character...as if something touches me it has value regardless of the price. My question to you then Albert, if the same peice were $20, $50, $100 would it then be trash? Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 18:27:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:01:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: High art/low art Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:08:49 +0000 Message-ID: <199904110001.UAA02933@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > My question to you then Albert, if the same peice were $20, $50, > $100 would it then be trash? That's certainly how some folks would determine "art" vs. "non-art." You've heard my story about the mugs I used to make and the reaction to $5 per and $25 per? Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 18:40:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:50:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: help with soldering Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:22:50 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.92250.0> Precedence: bulk I would say your iron is too cold. I stopped using the Weller 100 with those weird temperature control tips because I just could not get the heat right. If I remember the tip numbers, a number 7 is just too cold (and most glass suppliers don't seem to carry the number 8). Those temperature control tips just take the control out of your hands and put it into the hands of some guy in a lab hundreds of miles away who thinks he knows what is best for you. Bull crap! You need to control the temperature yourself to match the solder and foil or came thickness. How does some engineer know what temperature is best for the work your doing? Personally I prefer a simple powerful 150 to 175 watt iron with a rheostat control. Run it hot and move fast. For delicate work, just turn down the rheostat. Simple, dependable, infinitely controllable. -----Original Message----- From: mschut To: glass@bungi.com Date: Saturday, April 10, 1999 7:21 AM Subject: help with soldering >i have been doing stained glass for a while using the copper foil >technique, but I can't seem to get my solder joints very smooth. Can >anyone tell me what I am doing wrong? Am I using too much flux or is the >7/32" foil too thick for glass? This has really been bugging me for a while. > >I mostly do suncatchers and larger (18 x 24) window units. I have done >some windows, serving trays and fan lamps also, but run into the same >problem with every one. I use the weller 100 watt temp controlled iron >with a #7, 1/4" tip. Any insight on this from anyone? >Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & ????? Schut >Moncton, New Brunswick >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 18:53:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:13:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Bio # 98 Shiela H. Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:17:44 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.141744.0> References: <<1999Apr10.10433.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi Shiela... Thanks for coming out of lurkerdom..so we can meet you. I love prairie style lamps. ;o) Tulsa Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 18:54:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:50:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Suggestions for a stop Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:48:36 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.94836.0> Precedence: bulk As a wood worker, I can tell you oval or circular stops (or for that matter the entire oval frame) are a real pain to make in wood. It is the sort of thing a big shop can set up with repeating jigs and such. But if you are just doing one, it is rarely worth it in wood. If you are going to paint over it, I would go with the flexible plastic stops. This is what most of the production doors you see use because of the difficulty doing it in wood. Some other suggestions for curved stops I have used in the past to avoid the time and problems of curving real wood: Flexible copper tubing (like they sell for propane gas tubing and also some plumbing applications). Zinc or Brass "U" came. Face the channel opening against the inside of oval frame and it will look like it's solid. Lead "H" came edging right on the panel. Be as accurate as possible in assembly (slightly oversized is better than undersized). Then trim the outside walls of the H slightly for a perfect fit. The outer wall of the H came can be bent backwards, screws set through the inner wall into the wood frame, then the lead can be bent back to cover the screw heads. If you insist on real wood, the three possibilities are as follows. Describing any of them in detail would require pages. If you really want to do this I would suggest reading back issues of wood working magazines (such as Fine Woodworking) or books. 1. Build up an oval out of short sections of straight wood (build a polygon). Then round off the corners, usually on the router or shaper table. You will need special jigs both to glue the polygon and do the final shaping accurately. 2. Bent laminate thin strips of wood. You will need special clamping forms. You will also be working with large amounts of glue. Usually fairly hazardous epoxy resins. 3. Steam bend wood. Many woods do not steam bend well - you definitely do NOT want to use pine for steam bending - I would suggest reading up on what woods are best. You will need a steamer - a section of plastic sewer pipe with caps on each end then attached to a kettle can be made to work. There are also chemicals (mainly ammonia) which improve the bending characteristics of wood. You will need to use full safety precautions (concentrated ammonia steam can really do a number on your eyes and skin). ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 19:01:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:34:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: Witchdoc3@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:13:19 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.101319.0> References: <<1999Apr10.22148.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/9/99 4:45:04 PM, s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk > wrote: > > >I know I'll get a few brick bats about this but... > >I don't find the gushing approval for the works on this site justified. > >To me it shows the use of the image of women as means to get attention. > > I'm not crazy about the "contemporary graphic art" style of the designs; that > style in general is rather too hard-edged to qualify as really "sexy" in my > POV. Aside from that, I think they're well done and *way* more tasteful than > the hostile shock-em-if-you-can't-rock-em stuff you see coming from a lot of > post-punk-grunge-and-anime influenced "younger" artists. > > Just my 2 brass farthings' worth.......... > > Sparks > > ---- >yeah, I guess its the sort of stuff you either like or you dont...I noticed he had some links to some Japanese animation stuff...which you either like or you dont, I happen to like it, so that may very well be why I liked this guys stuff too....I just find it interesting to see someone doing something "different" with glass than the usual stuff.... Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 19:13:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:42:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: Cindy Pesonen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:20:37 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.102037.0> References: <> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk Cindy Pesonen wrote: > > *Images* of nudity portraited artistically are within the realms of real > life. (But much like pornagraphic books lying on shelfs everywhere)...if it > offends you DON'T PICK IT UP/TURN A BLIND EYE. > Artistically a woman decided to build a shadow box of her aboration(SP?) > (somewhat) naturally of a child,... the last shadow box showed a used > tampon!!! This piece of art had much disgust thru out BC, Canada...some > parts would not regonially accept her acclaimed work thru the noted ARTISTS > realm.... > Cindy > > call me judgemental but I am not sure that I classify a shadow box with a used tampon in it "artistic". There seems to be a school of thought out there that if you can come up with something that is going to "shock" people then you are a true cutting edge artist...there is no technical talent involved, no real effort other than staying up late at night to try and think of something "more" shocking than anyone else has ever come up with before....yes, I suppose this woman "is" telling us what is going on in her inner psyche and I "suppose" that is some of what art is supposed to do, and no, art does not always have to be "pretty" but I just get a sense about people who do things like this that there is something going on there that rubs me the wrong way...... not to open up a can of worms here but somehow I thought of this whole discussion I had years back with a fellow waitron where I used to work, a woman who fancied herself a writer and she was going on and on and ON about Sylvia Plath and how wonderful she was..I just found her life so very sad,what a waste, to die like that...and she shoots back...well....would you rather have a HAPPY Danielle Steele or a MISERABLE Sylvia Plath, I was like, well, I'll take the happy Danielle Steele thank you...the idea of artist/writer/whatever as someone who has to have this miserable tragic life to have something of any importance to say just did not seem quite right to me....anyway...this really digresses from glass here...but I guess since we ARE talking about art or whatever.... Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 19:29:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:42:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: Melissa Hall Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:21:19 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.102119.0> References: <<3.0.2.32.19990410070757.006a0364@scci.net>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk Melissa Hall wrote: > > Hi all, > This guy really needs to join the list! I know if a site of mine was > generating this long of a thread I'd want to be here enjoying it! > > Melissa > >has anyone emailed him an invite? Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 19:32:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:11:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!rwl50 From: Rick To: Pkelly , glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Bio # 99 Mary Austin Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:09:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr10.11930.0> Precedence: bulk "I just need the self-confidence".....Mary, what a wonderful story of self-determination. One thing I learned a long time ago, and what I passed on to my son who now pitches on a college baseball team, is that the only person you have to impress is yourself. If you feel good about your work, that is all that matters. I am my own worst critic, but I won't let that stop me from doing the work I enjoy, with the patterns and glass colors I enjoy. I think my work is better than some here, and can't hold a candle to others in my opinion, but that really doesn't matter in the big scheme of things. You keep on keepin' on!!!! Rick === http://home.fuse.net/crafts _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 20:33:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:26:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "bungi.com" Subject: TEST Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:25:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.182515.0> Precedence: bulk it seems that I posted earlier but never saw my post so I thought I would test from this end. LJ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 21:04:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:55:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Albert Lewis Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: High art/low art Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:00:01 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.1701.0> References: <<199904110001.UAA02933@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis wrote: > > > My question to you then Albert, if the same peice were $20, $50, > > $100 would it then be trash? > > That's certainly how some folks would determine "art" vs. "non-art." > You've heard my story about the mugs I used to make and the reaction > to $5 per and $25 per? > > Albert Im sorry, I must have missed it. If it was recent, I have really been behind on email. Let me guess, they wouldnt sell at $5 but at $25 you ran out fast? If that's the case, I'm raising my prices... Only thing is, remember I live in Oklahoma now, home of the 10% tipper! ;o) No offense to *real Okies. My mother gets so mad at me for saying things like that, she was born and raised in Ok. (it *is true though) T Suz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 21:36:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:05:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" , Subject: Angel Design, and just made a box Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:53:39 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.125339.0> Precedence: bulk For the small pieces in the Angel design, No, not really, the small pieces are part of the robe, and they alternate in color. Just got done making a box. It is a triangle with a cut off point facing you. Stands about 4 inches high. The top is done with iridescent marbles, with a black glass with iridescent finish as the sides of the top. The bottom is the same black glass iridescent, with iridescent marbles as feet. Took me about 7 hours, I do not know how you can make a living doing glass. Using a formula that I found on one of the members pages, I would guess that it would work out to about 30.00 to 40.00, and that does not even come close to the amount that I think I got in it. Well lets see,,, Sheet of black iridescent glass 8.00 Foil 1.00 Solder 3.00 Iridescent Marbles 2.00 Hinge 1.50 Equipment wear/Electricity 1.00 Total 16.50 So if I charge 40.00 for the box, then my hourly wage would be,,, 23.50 / 7 = 3.36 per hour That's way below the minimum wage, how do you all make a living at doing stained glass? I made a angel the other day, took about 8 hours, it's 6"x8" in size, bunch of small pieces, can not even imagine someone paying for the time and materials that I figure is in the angel. It would be around 70.00 to 90.00 And Mom thinks that I ought to put some stuff for sale in the church bookstore, says that there is a lot of money in Orange County, and some people spend it like others drink water. I wish I could figure out how to price my projects, that would pay for my time and materials, and still be in a sellable range. Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 10 23:33:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:03:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ipa.net!gecko From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: High art/low art Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:11:05 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.19115.0> Precedence: bulk >> You've heard my story about the mugs I used to make and the reaction >> to $5 per and $25 per? >> Albert -------------------------- >Im sorry, I must have missed it. If it was recent, I have really been >behind on email. >Let me guess, they wouldnt sell at $5 but at $25 you ran out fast? >If that's the case, I'm raising my prices... >Only thing is, remember I live in Oklahoma > now, home of the 10% tipper! ;o) No offense to *real Okies. >My mother gets so mad at me for saying things like that, she was born >and raised in Ok. (it *is true though) >T Suz ------------------------ Hhahhahahah! I know exactly how you feel! I'm just 2 hours from you, here in Arkansas. You can swing a cat and hit Oklahoma from here. We frequently do... great sport, that! Nothing personal to Ok's or Arks... but people here just don't spend money on nice things. And local waitstaff seems shocked at the 20 odd % tip! Most of my roots are from Oklahoma... but I'll still back you up on that one 100 percent, Suzanne! I'm curious to know the answer too... they wouldn't sell at 5.00 but you couldn't keep 'em in stock at 25.00?!?! Where is this? Obviously closer to civilization than small town Fort Smith, Arkansas! My local Scottish Festival is coming up on May 8th. I *think* I've built a decent stockpile of inventory. I'm still vascillation on my pricing, but trying to stick with $2.00 per piece of glass, unless I just don't think I can get that for it. But I keep going back to the fact that people here just seem a bit chinzier than, say, Houston Tx, or larger cities. I built my booth today!!! I'm very excited about that. It's 8'x8', with lots of room for sun to shine in, and a means of putting a tarp on top just in case of rain. (it *wont* rain... it *wont* rain....!!!) It breaks down into 8' boards, and can be assembled with carriage bolts in about 20 minutes. I'll post a pic of myself, in my glass booth, in my great-kilt.... (hopefully making money hand over fist), after the festival. G'nite all! Blake :-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 02:09:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 00:38:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: High art/low art Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 02:41:55 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr10.214155.0> References: <<1999Apr11.19115.0>> Precedence: bulk lol...what've you been drinkin' Blake? ;oP You got me grinnin...you sound like a happy camper! So, you decided to wear the kilt for sure? I cant wait to see a pic! The booth sounds great. ;o) T Suz > I'll post a pic of myself, in my glass booth, in my great-kilt.... > (hopefully making money hand over fist), after the festival. > > G'nite all! > Blake > :-) > -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 04:39:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 03:25:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: High art/low art Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 06:32:36 +0000 Message-ID: <199904111025.GAA09275@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Let me guess, they wouldnt sell at $5 but at $25 you ran out fast? > If that's the case, I'm raising my prices... Yup. When I ran a hot glass studio (those who've heard this story can drop off to sleep now), my overhead and cost of materials was so low that I was able to make a very good profit selling lug-handled, winged, iridescent blown glass mugs at $5 each retail. But the customers wouldn't buy them, because they immediately began to compare in their minds what $5 would buy at the local dimestore. When I marked the mugs at $25 each, they flew off the shelves of the museum stores where they were on offer. At $25, each mug became something special, something extraordinary in the true meaning of that word: out of the ordinary. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 06:08:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 04:41:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: nbnet.nb.ca!mschut From: mschut@nbnet.nb.ca (mschut) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Help with soldering Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 07:46:25 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990411074625.21f75a2e@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca> Precedence: bulk Thank you for the responses so far, a couple of you needed a little more information in order to possibly assist me. here it is: I use Clasic 60 solder from Fry Metals 60/40 and Classique 2050 Soldering Liquid Flux. Both items purchased recently from my local supplier. The solder joints turn out bulging and almost all of the joints have ripples. Also, when I finish the project, I clean off the flux with Classique 5000 Flux remover and clean the solder with 000 steel wool, but the solder still shows quite a dull finish. Hope this is the additional information you needed from me. Thanks for your help. Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & ????? Schut Moncton, New Brunswick ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 07:39:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 06:06:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: scci.net!melissah From: Melissa Hall To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:00:18 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19990411090018.006a26c0@scci.net> References: <<3.0.2.32.19990410070757.006a0364@scci.net>> Precedence: bulk At 05:21 PM 4/10/99 -0700, Elizabeth Arakelian wrote: >Melissa Hall wrote: >> Hi all, I'll send him an invite right now. Melissa >> Hi all, >> This guy really needs to join the list! I know if a site of mine was >> generating this long of a thread I'd want to be here enjoying it! >> >> Melissa >> >>has anyone emailed him an invite? > > >Liz >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 07:58:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 06:13:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: scci.net!melissah From: Melissa Hall To: kaneida@texas.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Mermaid Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:10:10 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19990411091010.006a26c0@scci.net> Precedence: bulk Hi Steven, You don't know me but I am in a glass news group called bungi. We've been looking at and discussing your site, so I though I'd extend an invitation for you to join the news group if you would like. No pressure! It's a bunch of stained glass people of all different talents who talk back and forth about a entire host of topics and your work has generated quite a lot of talk. One small warning though - you will get quite a bit of email. Some people seem to like that and some don't. I've snipped some text on the bottom telling you how to join: Join Bungi.com It's an E-mail based chat group just about stained glass. Great for beginners and advanced crafter's. Highly recommended, we discuss tips, and many other types of questions. You can either go directly to their page or e-mail it from here glass-request@bungi.com. There's also an archive of all the messages that were discussed from day one. Melissa Hall >X-Delivered: at request of mail on gdi4 >X-Path: ior.com!glshorse >From: Elizabeth Arakelian >To: Melissa Hall >Subject: Re: Mermaid >Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:21:19 -0700 >Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian > >Melissa Hall wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> This guy really needs to join the list! I know if a site of mine was >> generating this long of a thread I'd want to be here enjoying it! >> >> Melissa >> >>has anyone emailed him an invite? > > >Liz >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 11:15:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 06:49:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "bungi group" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Angel Design, and just made a box Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:42:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.54236.0> Precedence: bulk Good morning Bud, I would say that in seven hours we could probably do a design that could bring us in a few thousand dollars. That is how we make a living at it. The box you mentioned might take us a half hour at the most. A sheet of iridescent glass might cost us 22.00 for a whole sheet. So our supply cost is minimal. We could probably make the box of scrap glass. That is what twenty some years does for you. But........remember we all started somewhere. And I am sure that when we started it took us awhile to make a box. In this craft practice makes perfect and makes you faster. That is all it is. Patience and time. You will get there. Put a few of your pieces in the bookshop. That is sounds like a great idea. You can price your pieces high to begin with and if they don't sell. Lower them. Remember you can always lower your prices. Raising them tends to turn customers away at the beginning. I personally think that pricing is an individual thing. While a beginner might charge $45.00 a square foot. He is in essence is being paid while he learns. Which is not bad. A studio with a reputation for excellence and notable installations could charge up to $600.00 a square foot. And no one would blink an eye. You are not only paying for the work from the known studio you are paying for their reputation and years of experience. So there are no rules for pricing. I think that you have the pricing down rather well. You know to price for your time and materials. And the hourly wage will increase over time as you are able to complete more pieces within that seven hour period. Gee, sounds just like a real job doesn't it? For some of us it is. You are definitely on the right track.......good luck!!! my best, pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: Bud Britt To: Bungi Date: Sunday, April 11, 1999 1:01 AM Subject: Angel Design, and just made a box >For the small pieces in the Angel design, No, not really, the small pieces >are part of the robe, and they alternate in color. > >Just got done making a box. It is a triangle with a cut off point facing >you. Stands about 4 inches high. The top is done with iridescent marbles, >with a black glass with iridescent finish as the sides of the top. The >bottom is the same black glass iridescent, with iridescent marbles as feet. > >Took me about 7 hours, I do not know how you can make a living doing glass. >Using a formula that I found on one of the members pages, I would guess that >it would work out to about 30.00 to 40.00, and that does not even come close >to the amount that I think I got in it. Well lets see,,, > >Sheet of black iridescent glass 8.00 >Foil 1.00 >Solder 3.00 >Iridescent Marbles 2.00 >Hinge 1.50 >Equipment wear/Electricity 1.00 >Total 16.50 > >So if I charge 40.00 for the box, then my hourly wage would be,,, > >23.50 / 7 = 3.36 per hour > >That's way below the minimum wage, how do you all make a living at doing >stained glass? > >I made a angel the other day, took about 8 hours, it's 6"x8" in size, bunch >of small pieces, can not even imagine someone paying for the time and >materials that I figure is in the angel. It would be around 70.00 to 90.00 > >And Mom thinks that I ought to put some stuff for sale in the church >bookstore, says that there is a lot of money in Orange County, and some >people spend it like others drink water. > >I wish I could figure out how to price my projects, that would pay for my >time and materials, and still be in a sellable range. > > >Sincerely, >Bud Britt > >computerministry@unitytustin.org >page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, >http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ > > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 11:31:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 07:02:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "bungi group" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Mermaid and shock art??? Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:56:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.55614.0> Precedence: bulk Cindy wrote, >> Artistically a woman decided to build a shadow box of her abortion(SP?) >> (somewhat) naturally of a child,... the last shadow box showed a used >> tampon!!! >> For those of us living near Philadelphia home of the "Olde City Shock Art District". We know all to well of what you speak. I used to own an Art Gallery in the Olde City section of Philadelphia. Where we have lots of co-ops filled with folks who think that the only thing art has to do is shock you. Installations were the rage at the time......my all time favorite was the woman who butchered baby dolls and laid them strategically throughout the three blocks of the art district. This was her installation. This was her art. This was her statement. I think that there will always be this type of statement to be made by some. There always has been this is nothing new. Its just that years ago they used to keep it inside the galleries. Now the just keep it in your face. One thing though, this artist has the right to express his/her self. And that you can not ever censure. I may not agree with the art. But I agree with the right to create it. On the topic of the mermaid ..........I think that this work is tastefully done. Nothing offense about it. And I really like the fact that he does warn the public about the content of the work.. Good for him. Shows responsibility as an artist. I definitely like that. I also happened to have an extensive collection of nude art. So maybe that is why I like his work. And the fact that it is really well. my best, pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: Cindy Pesonen Date: Saturday, April 10, 1999 10:28 PM Subject: Re: Mermaid > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 11:42:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 07:36:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Bud Britt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Angel Design, and just made a box Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:36:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.6368.0> References: <<1999Apr10.125339.0>> Precedence: bulk Bud Britt wrote: > > For the small pieces in the Angel design, No, not really, the small pieces > are part of the robe, and they alternate in color. > > Just got done making a box. It is a triangle with a cut off point facing > you. Stands about 4 inches high. The top is done with iridescent marbles, > with a black glass with iridescent finish as the sides of the top. The > bottom is the same black glass iridescent, with iridescent marbles as feet. > > Took me about 7 hours, I do not know how you can make a living doing glass. > Using a formula that I found on one of the members pages, I would guess that > it would work out to about 30.00 to 40.00, and that does not even come close > to the amount that I think I got in it. Well lets see,,, > > Sheet of black iridescent glass 8.00 > Foil 1.00 > Solder 3.00 > Iridescent Marbles 2.00 > Hinge 1.50 > Equipment wear/Electricity 1.00 > Total 16.50 > > So if I charge 40.00 for the box, then my hourly wage would be,,, > > 23.50 / 7 = 3.36 per hour > > That's way below the minimum wage, how do you all make a living at doing > stained glass? > > I made a angel the other day, took about 8 hours, it's 6"x8" in size, bunch > of small pieces, can not even imagine someone paying for the time and > materials that I figure is in the angel. It would be around 70.00 to 90.00 > > And Mom thinks that I ought to put some stuff for sale in the church > bookstore, says that there is a lot of money in Orange County, and some > people spend it like others drink water. > > I wish I could figure out how to price my projects, that would pay for my > time and materials, and still be in a sellable range. > > Sincerely, > Bud Britt > > computerministry@unitytustin.org > page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, > http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well, you would'nt look at the price for one box... first of all as you get better, you get faster. for a box i do about 7 pieces an hour. the materials can be used for other projects. the glass you bought for that box may be enough to complete 3 boxes, a part of a lamp, and a few suncatchers. the solder and foil would be used in other projects as well. you were over charged for the hinge. tube hinge is about 50 cents a piece or a set (i can't remember which). and a door type hinge is about $20.00 for about 500 (in hudson stained glass catalog). basically the materials you used came out to atleast half of that. i would'nt count the foil, solder, and some of the glass. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 11:45:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 07:40:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: mschut Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Help with soldering Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:41:25 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.64125.0> References: <<3.0.1.16.19990411074625.21f75a2e@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>> Precedence: bulk mschut wrote: > > Thank you for the responses so far, a couple of you needed a little more > information in order to possibly assist me. here it is: > > I use Clasic 60 solder from Fry Metals 60/40 and Classique 2050 Soldering > Liquid Flux. Both items purchased recently from my local supplier. > > The solder joints turn out bulging and almost all of the joints have ripples. > > Also, when I finish the project, I clean off the flux with Classique 5000 > Flux remover and clean the solder with 000 steel wool, but the solder still > shows quite a dull finish. > > Hope this is the additional information you needed from me. Thanks for > your help. > Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & ????? Schut > Moncton, New Brunswick > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i think i see the problem. stop using the clasique 2050 flux. the stuff does'nt work at all well. i was using a iron that is 1100 degrees, and the solder melted as if i were using a match. the flux is too gooey and it absorbs the heat as it's boiled away. the solder does'nt have a real chance to melt. i use canfield soldermate II, so far it's the best flux i've ever used. though don't get it on your bare hands. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 11:58:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 08:19:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: A person's castle, was Re: High art/Low art Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:17:47 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr11.151747.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/10/99 4:26:46 PM, GreerStudios@compuserve.com wrote: >Broke the neighborhood pattern of >honker-house-with-four-car-attached-garage. My, my.... Don't tell me, let me guess - there's also a local ordinance saying something like: all drapes have to be white backed and no colored glass is allowed in the windows; only neutral colors are allowed on the outside of your house; your lawn has to be grass (as opposed to dichondra, pachysandra, ivy, desert landscaping/"xeriscaping," Japanese gardens, or other low-maintenance and non-waterhungry groundcovers that are far more appropriate in many parts of the country); you can't park your boat, trailer, or RV on your property; clotheslines, fences and outbuildings are prohibited (the latter mostly aimed at keeping those cheap metal sheds from popping up everywhere, but also ruling out detached garages)...... I've encountered every one of those laws in places I've lived. If people want to live with all that regulatory bull----, they might as well just live in apartments or condos............ Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 12:02:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 08:23:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: High art/low art Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:21:22 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr11.152122.0> Precedence: bulk Dani Greer's enquiring mind wants to know: >How about if it makes you throw up? Is it still art? Actually, there are some people out there who might count that reaction (especially if it occurred in the gallery) as "performance art"; then you'd really be in trouble, 'cuz they might try to make you a part of the installation......... Sparks, turning a little sickly green around the edges at the thought ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 12:09:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 08:58:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:57:06 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr11.15576.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/10/99 8:36:13 PM, glshorse@ior.com wrote: >I guess its the sort of stuff you either like or you dont...I noticed he had some >links to some Japanese animation stuff...which you either like or you dont, I happen >to like it, so that may very well be why I liked this guys stuff too....I just >find it interesting to see someone doing something "different" with glass than >the usual stuff.... Don't get me wrong, I like the "anime" graphic style itself (I nearly flunked 7th grade English because I spent most of my time in class drawing Astroboy et al.); what I hate is how anti-Utopian punk-and-grunge-violence gets into the mix, and especially the level of violence-as-sex and sex-as-violence. (OTOH, I absolutely *love* "friendly" erotica along the lines of the now-defunct "Yellow Silk" magazine....... sad to say, sex without violence, or at least without a kind of throwaway impersonality that tips over all to readily into exploitation, doesn't seem to have much of a market these days.........) What I'd really like to see is a few operas -- the Ring cycle, Magic Flute, any of the mythological or fairytale-based ones, but also any of the "Asian" themed ones like Turandot and Madame Butterfly -- done up as anime features (but *please* leave the explicit blood and guts to the imagination; didn't those people learn *anything* from Hitchcock?!). Now *that* would almost make opera interesting! I'd also settle for seeing operas in '40s to '50s classic Disney style a la Cinderella/Sleeping Beauty, before the company decided it had to put at least one sappy slapstick animal sidekick (Jiminy Cricket must be whirling in his grave over the dragon in Mulan =8-O ) and a half dozen out-of-character way-too-sugary pop-playlist songs (Peabo Bryson as Aladdin? Vanessa Williams as Pocahontas? gimme a break!) into every show. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 12:13:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:07:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: High art/low art Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:06:31 -0700 Message-ID: <199904111606.JAA30536@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >in Arkansas. You can swing a cat and hit Oklahoma from here. We frequently >do... great sport, that! Nothing personal to Ok's or Arks... but And you don't think the CATS take it personally???? :) Meeeeoooooowwww! C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 12:16:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:08:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: help with soldering Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:06:33 -0700 Message-ID: <199904111606.JAA30543@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >The Weller 100 doesn't retain heat long enough to do any kind of long >solder runs.... it's great for lead joints and small foil jobs. But, for= Or...if the heavier weight of the iron (I tried a 200 w) bothers you, get 2 100 watt Wellers and alternate them...one reheating while you use the other. Works for me. C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 12:23:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:08:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: scci.net!melissah From: Melissa Hall To: mschut@nbnet.nb.ca, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Help with soldering Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:05:29 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19990411120529.0069c340@scci.net> References: <<3.0.1.16.19990411074625.21f75a2e@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>> Precedence: bulk Hi Mike, Do you wax after you finish cleaning your solder lines? Melissa At 07:46 AM 4/11/99, you wrote: >Thank you for the responses so far, a couple of you needed a little more >information in order to possibly assist me. here it is: > >I use Clasic 60 solder from Fry Metals 60/40 and Classique 2050 Soldering >Liquid Flux. Both items purchased recently from my local supplier. > >The solder joints turn out bulging and almost all of the joints have ripples. > >Also, when I finish the project, I clean off the flux with Classique 5000 >Flux remover and clean the solder with 000 steel wool, but the solder still >shows quite a dull finish. > >Hope this is the additional information you needed from me. Thanks for >your help. >Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & ????? Schut >Moncton, New Brunswick >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 12:24:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:10:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: help with soldering Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:07:39 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr11.16739.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/10/99 8:41:06 PM, atwoods@aisl.bc.ca wrote: >I would say your iron is too cold. I stopped using the Weller 100 with >those weird temperature control tips because I just could not get the heat >right. [...] > >Personally I prefer a simple powerful 150 to 175 watt iron with a rheostat >control. Run it hot and move fast. For delicate work, just turn down the >rheostat. Simple, dependable, infinitely controllable. I'm with you on the "too cold" thang. I use a Weller Temptrol 100, run hot, move fast, and use 50/50 as filler if necessary because it's less likely to melt through than 60/40. Another question for the original sender: How are you holding your iron? I started out using the "pencil grip" and found that hard to control. (I've heard that a lot of people tend to sort of "dab the solder on" when they hold the iron that way, as if they were sketching something, and that results in a lot of roughness. I sure had that problem!) It was also tiring. Got cured of it *real fast* when I absent-mindedly tried to "choke up" a bit and hit the hot part of the iron! YYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEOWWWWWWWWWWCH! Fortunately I dropped the thing immediately and so only ended up with a smallish blister. Switched my grip and almost immediately started having better luck with it. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 12:30:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:29:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: gjr@bungi.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Please take me off the list .......for now. Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:26:58 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr11.162658.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Glenna and Bungians, Hope you had a wonderful trip and learned lots in Vegas!!! My husband, boys and myself will be traveling to Disney World from Monday until Friday. Please take me off of the list a.s.a.p. When I arrive home, I will notify you to return me back on at once. Thank you!!! Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 12:35:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:30:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bellsouth.net!mjulson From: Marion Julson To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:31:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.83119.0> Precedence: bulk Hi My name is Marion and I just joined the list a few days ago. I have been doing stained glass for about 3 years and am really enjoying it. My question is "what are the pro's & con's of band vs ring saws". I have never used a saw, but I am ready to purchase one now. I talked to a local couple who told me that they prefer the band saw over the ring saw. They told me that they heard of people who had the "Taurus II Ring saw" and that the motor seized up and the company would not back it up. I thought that this group was the place to get the right feedback, so would appreciate the help of everyone. Thanks Marion Ft. Lauderdale, FL mjulson@bellsouth.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 12:41:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:33:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass From: "K See" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Neon Site Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:45:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.84520.0> Precedence: bulk In my local paper today. Check this out http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1999-04/11/152l-041199-idx.html http://craigkraftstudio.com/ K See Art is the only way to run away without leaving home. Twyla Tharp ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 12:58:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:39:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: scci.net!melissah From: Melissa Hall To: mschut@nbnet.nb.ca, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Help with soldering Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:36:21 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19990411143621.006a1e9c@scci.net> References: <<3.0.2.32.19990411120529.0069c340@scci.net>> Precedence: bulk Hi, I have two different kinds. 1) Stained Glass Finishing Compound made by Kem-O-Pro and 2) The Ulitmate made by Shards Glashaus. My retailer said that the 2nd one I listed is the better one. After I use the patina and dry everything off, I use the wax and everything comes out looking nice and shiny. Hope this helps, Melissa PS When I first started I tried paste car wax and that seemed to be ok but not quite as nice as this finishing compound. At 02:16 PM 4/11/99, you wrote: >Hi Melissa, > >No, I do not wax after cleaning my solder lines. What type of wax do you >use? How do you apply it? > >Thanks for your help. > > >At 12:05 04-11-1999 -0400, you wrote: >>Hi Mike, >> Do you wax after you finish cleaning your solder lines? >> >>Melissa >> >>At 07:46 AM 4/11/99, you wrote: >>>Thank you for the responses so far, a couple of you needed a little more >>>information in order to possibly assist me. here it is: >>> >>>I use Clasic 60 solder from Fry Metals 60/40 and Classique 2050 Soldering >>>Liquid Flux. Both items purchased recently from my local supplier. >>> >>>The solder joints turn out bulging and almost all of the joints have >ripples. >>> >>>Also, when I finish the project, I clean off the flux with Classique 5000 >>>Flux remover and clean the solder with 000 steel wool, but the solder still >>>shows quite a dull finish. >>> >>>Hope this is the additional information you needed from me. Thanks for >>>your help. >>>Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & ????? Schut >>>Moncton, New Brunswick >>>---- >>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >>> >>> >> >> >Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & ????? Schut >Moncton, New Brunswick > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 13:08:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:42:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: outdoor booths Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:08:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.987.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" >I built my booth today!!! I'm very excited about that. It's 8'x8', wit= h lots of room for sun to shine in, and a means of putting a tarp on top ju= st in case of rain.< So what's a little rain to stained glass? Why have a tarp at all? It will just cover any light. And a little rain really won't hurt the glass. I'ld say, throw away the tarp. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 13:11:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:44:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Angel Design, and just made a box Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:08:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.985.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Bud Britt" >I made a angel the other day, took about 8 hours, it's 6"x8" in size, bunch of small pieces, can not even imagine someone paying for the time and materials that I figure is in the angel. It would be around 70.00 to 90.0= 0< Well, Bud, you've hit the nail on the head with this one example. Let's analyze it. I also have a standard angel pattern, 5" tall x 9" wide, but= = I produce it so that it sells for $30. How am I able to do it? 1.) simplify the design down to no more than 10 pieces. 5 is better. 2.) make the pieces easy to cut - i.e. no hard inside curves 3.) use easy-to-cut, inexpensive glass (clear cathedrals and Spectrum are my first choices) 4.) don't do them one at a time. Do them in batches of 10 at a time. This saves time setting up/cleaning up/changing from one task to another, and we all know time is money! 5.) simplify so that you CAN do on average, 1 per hour. 6.) get yourself set up to do wholesale supply purchasing to reduce the cost of materials. But you have to be a legit business to do this. Some wholesale distributors have very rigid requirements you must meet in order to purchase from them wholesale. 7.) at minimum, get registered with your state tax authority so that you get a resale number and you don't have to pay sales tax on your supplies, even if you are purchasing them at retail prices. 8.) improve your skills so that it takes you less time to create the item. Practice your cutting skills. I eliminated having to grind one full line of products simply by improving my cutting skills so that grinding was no longer necessary. That eliminates a lot of time and produces greater profits. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 13:20:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:51:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Life, death and art, was Re: Mermaid Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:49:08 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr11.18498.0> Precedence: bulk Not long ago, glshorse@ior.com wrote: >call me judgemental but I am not sure that I classify a shadow box with >a used tampon in it "artistic" I'd hardly call it "art" in any commonly understood aesthetic sense either (well, unless you count Dada - thanks to my other half, who I showed this to before sending it, and his take on it was: "That's found art; it's straight out of Duchamp!") but as one who's eagerly counting the days until menopause, I sure can relate!!!!!!!!! =8-O OK, now I'm done with that sicko train of thought, except to say that I've never understood "women's art" as such anyway, most of it leaves me completely cold. The one and only "feminine inner-space visual yoni-imagery" I've ever seen that I can honestly say hits me where I live is created by a pudgy, frizzy-haired 50-something male with a patch over one eye and a penchant for throwing pieces of his work into the nearest body of water for a swim before assembling the final structure - now that's a birth-and-baptism image for ya! (I'm referring, of course, to the Chihuly basket sets - anyone within screaming distance of Wilmington, Delaware, run don't walk! Admission is free from 4 to 9 pm on Wednesdays!) On to our story............ >well....would you rather have a HAPPY Danielle Steele or a >MISERABLE Sylvia Plath, I was like, well, I'll take the happy Danielle >Steele thank you... As someone who's lived all my life with moderate to severe depression, I can relate to some of Sylvia Plath's work, especially *The Bell Jar* which is a semi-autobiographical (I think) novel. She put into words a lot of what I couldn't and helped me get a bit of a handle on my own psyche at a time in my life when I thought I might go down in flames. (Thank God it didn't happen to me - way down inside I've got a streak of hope that's way too stubborn to give up and keeps poking its head through the cracks in the sidewalk like the proverbial tree that grows in Brooklyn. Between that and the fact that my inner child is a 5-year-old existentialist whose favorite line is "Hey mom! Hey dad! The Emperor's naked!" and who never takes anything entirely seriously because the one thing she knows for sure is that all adults are messed up and can be *very* ridiculous, I'm still here - be afraid. Be very afraid.... ) OTOH, I think it's a sickness of a different and dangerous kind to quasi-worship the self-indulgently self-destructive Lord (and Lady) Byrons of the world. It's one thing for an artist in any medium to draw on the experience of suffering and communicate some understanding of that experience and its impact on our shared humanity and "life on the planet as we know it"; it's quite another for that artist or his/her audience to believe the big lie that the experience is only valid if it destroys the sufferer in the process, or to think that misery is a necessary condition for creativity, or to hold up an artist's suicide as some sort of worthwhile "ultimate sacrifice for their art." It seems to me that the social mythology of the "tragic artist" relates way to the prevailing public image of the artist as somehow "different from the rest of us peons" and that a particular talent in any "creative or performing art" raises its possessor up into the ranks of heroes or even demigods (look no further than the operatic "diva" - literally, "goddess"!). Another nod at this point to my other half, who says, "The 'tragic artist' is a 19th and 20th century concept. It's all the fault of people like Beethoven's biographers [who held up his early deafness as one of life's great tragedies *and* as the necessary thing that gave him his own musical voice because he no longer had external input to interfere with what he heard in his mind's ear, and who also viewed his degenerate living habits and disagreeable personality as signs of another "new concept," that eccentricity and dysfunctionality are necessary components of true genius] and Goethe's *Werther.*" And of course *real* heroes and demigods always die spectacular deaths, it's part of the formula. (The rest of us just die little tiny deaths, including the one I fight with all the time over my lack of confidence in my own creativity, that "if I can do it, it must be trivial; it can't possibly be 'real art' because I'm just a 'regular person'!" Never mind that I live and work among professional artists and musicians and know firsthand that we all put our pants on one leg at a time and we all have to open the bathroom window after we've dropped a big one, just like everyone else!) (Lest we think that artists are the only gods out there..... forget not that "[O]n we worked, and waited for the light,/And went without the meat, and cursed the bread,/And Richard Cory, late one summer night,/Went home and put a bullet through his head." So much for tycoon-worship too! OTOH, nobody sane is saying that all those bankers who took the dive out the window in 1929 were making an "artistic statement." Not much of a saving grace, but FWIW.......) A violent death is always a tragedy, whether the body in question is a suicidal "artist," a child hit by a stray bullet in a war, or a pedestrian hit by an out-of-control car; the fact that a creative person did it to him/herself doesn't make it a creative act. Dying "before your time" sucks, period. Ain't nothing "artistic" about it. IMO, "artistic" self-destruction is meaningless, hopeless, useless, either giving up in depair or an act of displaced defiance akin to a spoiled toddler's "holding my breath until I turn blue," which most of us eventually grow out of - the main difference with the latter being that while a little kid can't usually make good on the threat, a grown-up has access to effective means of doing so. That and gratuitous-violence-and-ugliness-as-"art" are nothing but an overgrown 2-year-old's temper tantrums, and they deserve about as much attention. There's a lot of art-born-of-suffering out there today that chooses instead to communicate the strength and resilience of the human spirit in the face of living hells (war, famine, disease, "mental" illness, life on the mean streets, whatever), or the message that *all* of our humanity is violated by those living hells. Not only the pen, but the paintbrush, the camera, the VCR, the stage, the sculptor's chisel, the glass furnace, the sewing machine, the orchestra and chorus (to name a few) are mightier than the sword if they succeed in any way in confronting our complacent fat asses with the real tragedies out there. There's plenty of horrific impact in Picasso's "Guernica" or Penderecki's "Threnody: Hiroshima" or the children's poetry of Terezin (which several composers have set to music) or any of a number of less well-known works. (I almost hate to admit it, but knowing what I know about the history of institutional religion's inhumanity to humanity, I can even see the famous/infamous Serrano crucifix in the jar in that way.) To make a long story short, allusions to violence do have their place in the service of self-expression *against* violence (I suppose the same could be said regarding such ostensibly self-destructive acts like Buddhist monks setting themselves on fire in protest against oppressive governments, pacifists going on hunger strikes in jail, etc.). They say things words can't say and make us see and hear things we "can't look at or listen to" otherwise. IMO, if those expressions kick us upside the head and knock us into awareness and compassion, they're art. Otherwise they're a waste. And ultimately, one person's art is another person's garbage, and vice versa. We now return you to your regularly scheduled program already in progress. Sparks (who's never understood what the big deal is about Danielle Steele either.........) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 13:33:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:54:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: You take the high art, and I'll take the low art, and I'll be in Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:50:23 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr11.185023.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/11/99 1:33:54 AM, gecko@ipa.net wrote: >I'll post a pic of myself, in my glass booth, in my great-kilt.... Watch out, Patrick, looks like you've got competition in the "Mr. Great Legs" competition! >(hopefully making money hand over fist), Good luck! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 13:36:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:56:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Help with soldering Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:54:47 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr11.185447.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/11/99 10:44:06 AM, esavad@home.net wrote: >i use canfield soldermate II, so far it's the best flux >i've ever used. though don't get it on your bare hands. Flux-O-Matic (Inland, I think) is good stuff too. And make sure you keep your iron clean - invest in some Nokorode paste flux for those "bad solder days." Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 14:10:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:13:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Help with soldering Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:13:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.121336.0> References: <<3.0.2.32.19990411120529.0069c340@scci.net>> Precedence: bulk Melissa Hall wrote: > > Hi Mike, > Do you wax after you finish cleaning your solder lines? > > Melissa > > At 07:46 AM 4/11/99, you wrote: > >Thank you for the responses so far, a couple of you needed a little more > >information in order to possibly assist me. here it is: > > > >I use Clasic 60 solder from Fry Metals 60/40 and Classique 2050 Soldering > >Liquid Flux. Both items purchased recently from my local supplier. > > > >The solder joints turn out bulging and almost all of the joints have ripples. > > > >Also, when I finish the project, I clean off the flux with Classique 5000 > >Flux remover and clean the solder with 000 steel wool, but the solder still > >shows quite a dull finish. > > > >Hope this is the additional information you needed from me. Thanks for > >your help. > >Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & ????? Schut > >Moncton, New Brunswick > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass usually. sometimes if it's going to be a real pain not to wax, i won't. but so it looks professional i usually put the wax on it. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 14:22:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:15:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Angel Design, and just made a box Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:13:43 -0700 Message-ID: <199904112013.NAA11426@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >That's way below the minimum wage, how do you all make a living at doing >stained glass? Bud, I think this is a quesiton often asked by hobbyists wondering about making a living from selling their glass. And there's no easy answer to your question, but here's a few points to consider. 1) pros buy in quantity, therefore have a wholesale discount and materials costs are less. Where you might buy 1 pound of solder, a studio would buy a case of 25. 2) choose your patterns carefully...fewer pieces in a design make for quicker fabrication. For example, on your box, make a flat top instead of putting sides on it..eliminates 4 pieces and some soldering. There are a lot of patterns around I'd never consider making for sale, even if it would use up some of my scraps...they just take too darn long. 3) consider the large custom panel market rather than the small gift market...my experience is that this is where I can make a decent living, not in the small gift market. Christie and Dorothy may have a different input on this, however. 4) experience improves working speed, and figuring out time saving tricks like jigs and such helps speed up production. 5) decide if you REALLY want to make $3.35 an hour for your work...selling at this price devalues your own work and also makes it difficult for full time artists to compete in the marketplace as it artificially deflates the prices of glass. Good luck C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 14:39:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:25:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: outdoor booths Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:24:17 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr11.202417.0> Precedence: bulk Christie's enquiring mind wants to know: >Why have a tarp at all? Maybe because he's afraid his gnomon will shrink if it rains? or that his great kilt will smell like wet Toby for weeks? or that great kilt will shrink into a miniskirt and leave his gnomon bare for the world to see? I any case, if it's an outdoor show, make sure you've got lots of shower curtain weights sewn into your hem in case a windstorm comes up, laddie! Best to leave all the lassies wonderin' if it's true "what they don't wear beneath the kilt" =8-O Sorry, couldn't resist. I'm whackin' out waiting for MacInTax to download.... Sparkz-z-z-z-z-z-z-zzzz........... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 14:51:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:48:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: You take the high art, and I'll take the low art... Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:48:05 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr11.20485.0> Precedence: bulk Oops, the full title of that was: "You take the high art, and I'll take the low art, and I'll be in Scotland afore ye" I hope to Gawd this silly software gets done downloading soon, for all o' your sakes! Sparks, waiting to see if Blake's legs are as good-lookin' as Patrick's :-) p.s. AWWWWWWWW, FR*T!!!!!!!!!!!! My download just hung up! I shoulda kept my fat trap shut........ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 15:08:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:58:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:seaspray@island.net" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: High art/low art Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:56:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.12569.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:seaspray@island.net >And you don't think the CATS take it personally???? :) Meeeeoooooowwww!<= And, PPfffsssst-hiss, too! The cat owners are taking it = personally! Best, Dani Greer (and mother to five lovely felines!) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 15:19:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:05:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Marion Julson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:56:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.125612.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Marion Julson >My question is "what are the pro's & con's of band vs ring saws".< We don't use saws, so will let someone else answer that question. However, one big warning.... if you cannot make the cut by hand, don't think you can get away with it using a saw. In a few years, your work will start getting stress fractures, especially on deep inside curves. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 15:31:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:10:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "Marion Julson" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:01:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.13149.0> Precedence: bulk My question is....if you have been doing glass for three years without it..why do you need it now? my best, pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: Marion Julson To: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, April 11, 1999 3:49 PM Subject: Band Saw vs Ring Saw >Hi > >My name is Marion and I just joined the list a few days ago. I have >been doing stained glass for about 3 years and am really enjoying it. >My question is "what are the pro's & con's of band vs ring saws". > >I have never used a saw, but I am ready to purchase one now. I talked >to a local couple who told me that they prefer the band saw over the >ring saw. They told me that they heard of people who had the "Taurus II >Ring saw" and that the motor seized up and the company would not back it >up. > >I thought that this group was the place to get the right feedback, so >would appreciate the help of everyone. > >Thanks > >Marion >Ft. Lauderdale, FL >mjulson@bellsouth.net > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 16:41:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:42:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: NG: TuTu Sighting Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:36:24 +0000 Message-ID: <199904112237.WAA30673@saturn> Precedence: bulk > > Well she wouldn't let go of the mike. I was holding my own until she > (unfairly) picked up her walker and hit me with it, then the fight was on. > Earlier she made a rude comment about my attire, something about how > unbecoming it was for a man to wear fringe. Don't let that blue hair fool > you ... she was wiry. I still have the marks on my neck from her trying to > strangle me with those support hose. She tried to pull my hair but all she > got was a hand full of scalp. Her twin sister joined the fray and it was > inhumane what they did to me. Blue hair, walkers, print dresses, crocheted > collars, fringe, glass, mike cords, etc. The TV crew finally had to break us > up.... just when I was getting the upper hand..... . Oh well, as the > Terminator says, "Next time baby". > > Beware this was a warm-up for when that "Brit Chick" visits. > > Hi there! This is another Brit Chick calling - an observer from a Scottish planet (how does that grab you?) What's all this c..p about your noman (however it's spelt in Irish ?) and this stained glass tutu (what's it stained by anyway?) Have you ever been to Co Laios? If you had, you'd know how they really do it over there! I gather you're going to romance the original Brit Chick over dinner - How can you do that with all those fragile appendiges! You have to be very careful when there's a table between you as well!! (Well, what could you do with a Brit Chick, a table and fragile appendiges - the mind boggles!) That's enough for a first encounter! I'm a wood person, by the way, so would preferably welcome a mahogany reply. Luv, Marguerite (disclaimer by Elisabeth - never mind Toby) This is an alias - what's yours? > > Patrick > Roses and Rainbows > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 17:11:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:57:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: outdoor booths Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:56:37 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.145637.0> References: <<1999Apr11.987.0>> Precedence: bulk The PEOPLEselling the stained glass need the shade...or industrial strength sun block! Dorothy Christie A. Wood wrote: > Message text written by "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" > >I built my booth today!!! I'm very excited about that. It's 8'x8', wit= > h > lots of room for sun to shine in, and a means of putting a tarp on top ju= > st > in case of rain.< > > So what's a little rain to stained glass? Why have a tarp > at all? It will just cover any light. And a little rain really > won't hurt the glass. I'ld say, throw away the tarp. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 17:43:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:51:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ipa.net!gecko From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: High/Low Art in Tarp Covered Outdoor Booths Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:00:03 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.1403.0> Precedence: bulk >Maybe because he's afraid his gnomon will shrink if it rains? or that his MY gnomon is shrink-proof, water-resistant & machine washable, made from the sturdiest tungsten carbide available. I am... ... The Gnomonator! "I'll be back!" >great kilt will smell like wet Toby for weeks? or that great kilt will shrink >into a miniskirt and leave his gnomon bare for the world to see? >I any case, if it's an outdoor show, make sure you've got lots of shower >curtain weights sewn into your hem in case a windstorm comes up, laddie! Best >to leave all the lassies wonderin' if it's true "what they don't wear beneath >the kilt" I have to share my great-kilt adventure with you!! None of you will be any better for it, but at least I won't suffer alone any longer!! I constructed the great-kilt this last year for the Texas Renaissance Festival. We decided to go with a medieval Scottish theme. At the last minute before the festival, in the car, I made a daring decision. What kind of self respecting medieval Scotsman would be caught dead in modern briefs! I opted for authenticity, and a nice breeze. After all... I had 9 yards of tartan, bound tightly to my body by a 4" leather belt that made Xena's belt look like only so much lingerie. Thousands attend the festival. And I in the great big middle of 'em all... enjoying my naughty little scottish secret.... when the belt broke. I felt a draft from behind. I readjusted. I noticed a draft from the front... ...I realized that my Titanic was indeed sinking. I was gathering and clutching, and walking in a crouch... calling for my friends in a panic! Tungsten carbide hold up under the toughest conditions, but can shatter under extreme embarrassment. The kilt was wrapped in such a way that strategic clutching was of little use. Terror stricken, I hobbled along to any leather shops I could find... only to find that none of them had brought any tools with them. I tried to buy another belt, but alas, I'm 6'3"... well over 300lbs... I don't exactly shop off the shelf. With my hands going numb from clutching, I finally found a shop that gave me a piece of rope sturdy enough to handle the job. I looked like a cross between Rob Roy McGregor and Jethro Clampitt. For THIS particular festival, I'll be wearin' considerably more than a bonnie blue ribbon beneath my kilt! I'm too old for FEAR like that anymore. As to the kitty-swingin' referece... well... call it a weakness. I too am a cat lover. My own cat, Allegro, who frequently helps me type, stood up and left the room when I wrote that letter. Everyone's a critic. But truly, I am not a sadistic cat hating monster... I would never consider swingin' a kitty who wasn't at least looking for a thrill anyway. http://users2.ipa.net/~blakey/pets.html I offer as proof of my complete compliance to the feline code of conduct for human subordinates, the above webpage. As you can see... Al is a bit of a show-off. Well, I've rambled pointless for long enough. Hope you bungians have a great Sunday evening. Merry Part! Blake :-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 18:14:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:10:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: , Subject: Re: You take the high art, and I'll take the low art... Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:09:35 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.16935.0> Precedence: bulk Sorry about your download cutting off. Hope you got it the second time. LJ -----Original Message----- From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, April 11, 1999 5:49 PM Subject: Re: You take the high art, and I'll take the low art... >Oops, the full title of that was: > >"You take the high art, and I'll take the low art, and I'll be in Scotland >afore ye" > >I hope to Gawd this silly software gets done downloading soon, for all o' >your sakes! > > >Sparks, waiting to see if Blake's legs are as good-lookin' as Patrick's :-) > >p.s. AWWWWWWWW, FR*T!!!!!!!!!!!! My download just hung up! I shoulda kept my >fat trap shut........ > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 18:26:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:21:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "Marion Julson" , Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:19:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.161955.0> Precedence: bulk Marion, Listen to PJ and Dani. I have a saw but have been doing glass 12 years and just got it as a gift Valentine's Day. Dani presented to me something that sounds so logical and I am making glass windows now that I do want to last and don't want stress cracks cropping up unexpectedly. So I took her advice and very seldom if ever use the saw for cutting glass for a window. I do some small pet memorial stones and use the saw on the letters for those and it works just fine. I have a Taurus 2.2 and have no complaints. It works great for my purpose, small letters and numbers. My boyfriend bought the saw from my local retailer (plug for you Walter) and had one little problem that he took care of right away. So I have no complaints. I don't know about the other saw. But since Dani brought up the stress cracks I think long and hard before I would use a saw on a window that I was going to sell to someone. I must say I know a lady that has a Taurus 2.2 saw and does ALL her glass cutting with the saw. So go figure. You do what you want but learn your glass cutting then use the saw for fun. Linda Jo -----Original Message----- From: pj friend To: Marion Julson ; glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, April 11, 1999 6:28 PM Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw >My question is....if you have been doing glass for three years without >it..why do you need it now? > >my best, >pj >Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. >www.waterw.com/~artglass >Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America >Member International Guild of Glass Artists >-----Original Message----- >From: Marion Julson >To: glass@bungi.com >Date: Sunday, April 11, 1999 3:49 PM >Subject: Band Saw vs Ring Saw > > >>Hi >> >>My name is Marion and I just joined the list a few days ago. I have >>been doing stained glass for about 3 years and am really enjoying it. >>My question is "what are the pro's & con's of band vs ring saws". >> >>I have never used a saw, but I am ready to purchase one now. I talked >>to a local couple who told me that they prefer the band saw over the >>ring saw. They told me that they heard of people who had the "Taurus II >>Ring saw" and that the motor seized up and the company would not back it >>up. >> >>I thought that this group was the place to get the right feedback, so >>would appreciate the help of everyone. >> >>Thanks >> >>Marion >>Ft. Lauderdale, FL >>mjulson@bellsouth.net >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 19:14:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:17:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: email.msn.com!belliveau-gerald From: "Gerry Belliveaau" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: whichdoc3 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:17:25 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.111725.0> Organization: Microsoft Corporation Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just opened my mail and no wonder there was 32 new messages, 9 came = from whichdoc3@aol.com. Get a life and try to combine all messages by = day into one at least. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I just opened my mail and no wonder = there was 32=20 new messages, 9 came from whichdoc3@aol.com. Get a life and = try to=20 combine all messages by day into one at = least.
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 19:44:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:34:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ezl.com!stepsue From: Sue Prullage To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: re: E-tour Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:17:44 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.141744.0> Organization: stainedglassdesign.com Precedence: bulk My husband and I will be at Summitt Glass to meet Elisabeth. We are really excited. We also want to learn some new methods. See you there. Sue and Bill from Alton, Illinois ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 19:58:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:37:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ezl.com!stepsue From: Sue Prullage To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: stone protection? Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:19:30 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.141930.0> Organization: stainedglassdesign.com Precedence: bulk What do any of you recommend putting on your stepping stone after they are finished to help seal and protect them. I know Ed Hoy has several types of stuff for sale, but I do not know what is best. Any recommendations? Thanks ahead of time. Sue P ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 20:16:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:44:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: High/Low Art in Tarp Covered Outdoor Booths Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:43:56 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.154356.0> Precedence: bulk Blake, I think I have a picture of that......LOL. If I can find it I'll post it to the newsgroup. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 21:14:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 19:56:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!ezcomezgo From: rrk To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 19:55:42 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.125542.0> References: <<1999Apr11.125612.0>> Precedence: bulk Dani Greer wrote: > Message text written by Marion Julson > >My question is "what are the pro's & con's of band vs ring saws".< > > We don't use saws, so will let someone else answer that question. > However, one big warning.... if you cannot make the cut by hand, > don't think you can get away with it using a saw. In a few years, > your work will start getting stress fractures, especially on deep > inside curves. Marion, Could you please kindly give us a real-life example from your own experience of this "stress fracture" bit you're talking about. I believe you'll find that any stress fractures were due to improperly cut glass, and not to the actual shape of the glass. The pieces of a stained glass panel should be properly cut with the pieces fitting together snugly, There should be no major deviations from the original design lines that have to be compensated for by the binding metal. Stress fractures should only occur when the glass is not correctly cut. How the glass is actually cut to achieve a close fit is irrelevant. In fact, since the cuts are much more precise with a glass bandsaw, the fit should be better, and there should be fewer stress fractures, if any, with a stained glass panel made with a bandsaw. Regards ............ Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 21:26:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:07:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ipa.net!gecko From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: whichdoc3 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:15:27 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.171527.0> Precedence: bulk >I just opened my mail and no wonder there was 32 new messages, 9 came = >from whichdoc3@aol.com. Get a life and try to combine all messages by = >day into one at least. Well I for one ENJOY witchdoc3's posts!! Keep 'em coming Sparks!!! The more posts I get from you each day, the more chuckles I get! Blake :-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 21:35:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:13:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ipa.net!gecko From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: giraffe joos Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:21:53 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.172153.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0230_01BE8532.DE331020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok. Suzanne or any other bungian in the know... Did we ever determine who is offering Giraffe Joos for sale? If we did, I prolly wouldn't know it due to all the down time I've had = lately... and since I've wiped my hard drive clean 3.... count 'em... 3 = times in as many weeks... sure wouldn't have a record of it anymore!! I'd like to order some. So please... if you're a purveyor of this = wonder polymer... please lemme know so I can order. Thanks! Blake :-) ------=_NextPart_000_0230_01BE8532.DE331020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ok.  Suzanne or any other = bungian in the=20 know...
 
Did  we ever determine who is = offering=20 Giraffe Joos for sale?
If we did, I prolly wouldn't know it = due to all=20 the down time I've had lately... and since I've wiped my hard drive = clean 3....=20 count 'em... 3 times in as many weeks... sure wouldn't have a record of = it=20 anymore!!
 
I'd like to order some.  So = please... if=20 you're a purveyor of this wonder polymer... please lemme know so I can=20 order.
 
Thanks!
Blake
:-)
------=_NextPart_000_0230_01BE8532.DE331020-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 21:44:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:39:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netaxs.com!maruca From: maruca@netaxs.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: whichdoc3 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:38:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr11.193839.0> References: <<1999Apr11.111725.0>> Precedence: bulk While we are complaining, could you kindly learn to post to email lists in plain text only? On Sun, 11 Apr 1999, Gerry Belliveaau wrote: > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > I just opened my mail and no wonder there was 32 new messages, 9 came = > from whichdoc3@aol.com. Get a life and try to combine all messages by = > day into one at least. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > http-equiv=3DContent-Type> > > > > >
I just opened my mail and no wonder = > there was 32=20 > new messages, 9 came from href=3D"mailto:whichdoc3@aol.com">whichdoc3@aol.com. Get a life and = > try to=20 > combine all messages by day into one at = > least.
> > ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860-- > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 22:25:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:19:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: banet.net!gmanning From: Goldpaws To: Gerry Belliveaau Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: whichdoc3 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:14:50 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.201450.0> References: <<1999Apr11.111725.0>> Precedence: bulk Your message came through blank. You sent it in mime. Gerry Belliveaau wrote: ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 22:45:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:30:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: banet.net!gmanning From: Goldpaws To: Gerry Belliveaau Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: whichdoc3 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:27:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.202746.0> References: <<1999Apr11.111725.0>> Precedence: bulk You really counted how many posts that came from 1 address! Wow, that's cool I wish I had time to do that. Maybe it's you that should get a life. Gerry Belliveaau wrote: ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 22:53:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:42:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: "Gerry Belliveaau" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: whichdoc3 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:43:22 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.184322.0> Precedence: bulk Obviously you are new or something. We don't allow personal attacks on this list. -----Original Message----- From: Gerry Belliveaau To: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, April 11, 1999 9:28 PM Subject: whichdoc3 >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >I just opened my mail and no wonder there was 32 new messages, 9 came = >from whichdoc3@aol.com. Get a life and try to combine all messages by = >day into one at least. > >------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860 >Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > >http-equiv=3DContent-Type> > > > > >
I just opened my mail and no wonder = >there was 32=20 >new messages, 9 came from href=3D"mailto:whichdoc3@aol.com">whichdoc3@aol.com. Get a life and = >try to=20 >combine all messages by day into one at = >least.
> >------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860-- > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 23:14:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:58:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: banet.net!gmanning From: Goldpaws To: Gerry Belliveaau Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: whichdoc3 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:56:01 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.20561.0> References: <<1999Apr11.111725.0>> Precedence: bulk Sorry, You wanted all posts in one. Your message came through blank. You sent it in mime. I always enjoy and learn from Witchdoc3 posts. You really counted how many posts that came from 1 address! Wow, that's cool I wish I had time to do that. Maybe it's you that should get a life. Goldpaws Gerry Belliveaau wrote: ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 23:22:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:08:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Gerry Belliveaau Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: whichdoc3 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:12:06 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.19126.0> References: <<1999Apr11.111725.0>> Precedence: bulk > I just opened my mail and no wonder there was 32 new messages, 9 came > from whichdoc3@aol.com. Get a life Gerry, So nice to meet you too. If you only got 32 email messages today, and 9 were from Sparks, consider yourself blessed. I personally found your email the most unpleasant to hit my box today. T Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 11 23:44:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:48:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "bungi.com" Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 01:48:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.214816.0> Precedence: bulk Gee, I have been getting e-mail from bungi for about 6 months, and it seems that the object of a e-mail page is e-mail. If you don't like a post just delete it. This is a great place, a wonderful resource for many of us. And I don't feel put off by a person posting e-mails as many times as they wish. Linda Jo ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 00:14:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:02:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Back From Vegas Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:02:28 PDT Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, Well I'm back from Las Vegas. :^) Thanks to all those who needed subscription changes/addition. etc. for being so patient. I just got home and am trying to get through all the mail. I had a excellent time at the show! The teachers I had I thought were fantastic. Tommy G, Newy Fagan, Linda Abbott and Jayne Persico have all insired me to no end!! Wonderful instructors! I didn't win the gallery of excellence but was told buy the manager I only lost by 2 votes. That made me pretty good. I've only been at this 4 yrs. The winners had been doing this for many years. One was even a teacher. Now my mind won't stop thinking of what my next project is going to be. I even picked up a kiln...:^) I may never be able to sleep...... -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 00:23:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:05:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Teachers Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:03:56 PDT Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Ooopps I forgot to mention Cathy Claycomb,,,. -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 01:45:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:38:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mpx.com.au!ktsplash From: "ktsplash" To: "Bungi List" Subject: Re: outdoor booths Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:14:01 +1000 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.3141.0> Precedence: bulk Rain might not hurt the glass, but it can sure make the day no fun for you! I've spent hours at a craft market without the foresight to bring a tarp "just in case"! cold, wet, and then the wind picked up! Suncatchers swinging wildly, and a borrowed golf umbrella doing it's best to "Poppins" me away, and knock over my stand with panels as well. And the market announcer, standing a few metres away, cackling away and announcing over the microphone to everyone "ha! ha! looks like young katie is having a bit of trouble over there with our little summer storm! ha! ha!" Trust me. Take the tarp! katie. -----Original Message----- From: Christie A. Wood To: Bungi Date: Monday, 12 April 1999 6:13 Subject: outdoor booths >Message text written by "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" >>I built my booth today!!! I'm very excited about that. It's 8'x8', wit= >h >lots of room for sun to shine in, and a means of putting a tarp on top ju= >st >in case of rain.< > >So what's a little rain to stained glass? Why have a tarp >at all? It will just cover any light. And a little rain really >won't hurt the glass. I'ld say, throw away the tarp. > >Christie A. Wood >Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, >P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 >http://www.igga.org/wood/ >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 02:00:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:39:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mpx.com.au!ktsplash From: "ktsplash" To: "Gerry Belliveaau" , Subject: Re: whichdoc3 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:36:18 +1000 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.33618.0> Precedence: bulk I, also, find whichdoc3's posts always amusing and often thought-provoking. I'd rather get 9 of these a day than ANY amount of grousing. you can always use your inbox assistant or some other filter to not receive messages from a particular sender, if you'd prefer, but it's rather poor form to insult that person ("get a life"??), don't you think? Katie -----Original Message----- From: Blake, Wayne, & Susan To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, 12 April 1999 14:31 Subject: Re: whichdoc3 >>I just opened my mail and no wonder there was 32 new messages, 9 came = >>from whichdoc3@aol.com. Get a life and try to combine all messages by = >>day into one at least. > > >Well I for one ENJOY witchdoc3's posts!! >Keep 'em coming Sparks!!! >The more posts I get from you each day, the more chuckles I get! > >Blake >:-) > > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 02:16:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:54:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep From: "Brian Shepherd" To: "Gerry Belliveaau" , Subject: Re: whichdoc3 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:47:07 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.9477.0> Precedence: bulk Well I had to hunt but there was a message in the garbage and that was garbage as well! I think you might be on the wrong list.. BtB -----Original Message----- From: Gerry Belliveaau <belliveau-gerald@email..msn..com> To: glass@bungi..com <glass@bungi..com> Date: 12 April 1999 03:17 Subject: whichdoc3 >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.. > >------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447..8D3A3860 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >I just opened my mail and no wonder there was 32 new messages, 9 came = >from whichdoc3@aol..com.. Get a life and try to combine all messages by = >day into one at least.. > >------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447..8D3A3860 >Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4..0 Transitional//EN"> ><HTML><HEAD> ><META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = >http-equiv=3DContent-Type> ><META content=3D"MSHTML 5..00..2014..210" name=3DGENERATOR> ><STYLE></STYLE> ></HEAD> ><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> ><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I just opened my mail and no wonder = >there was 32=20 >new messages, 9 came from <A=20 >href=3D"mailto:whichdoc3@aol..com">whichdoc3@aol..com</A>.. Get a life and = >try to=20 >combine all messages by day into one at = >least..</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> > >------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447..8D3A3860-- > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi..com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi..com >Archives available at http://www..bungi..com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 02:22:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 01:23:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones From: "B. S. Jones" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: help with soldering Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:07:24 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.10724.0> Precedence: bulk >Those temperature control tips just take the control out of your hands and >put it into the hands of some guy in a lab hundreds of miles away who thinks >he knows what is best for you. Bull crap! You need to control the >temperature yourself to match the solder and foil or came thickness. How >does some engineer know what temperature is best for the work your doing? The temperature control keeps the iron at a fixed temperature when the iron is standing by not being used.It does not matter what the power of the iron is. The heavier the job ie more heat needed the more powerful the iron required. Keeping the bit at a fixed temperature is mainly to save the iron bit itself. If it wasn't then with the more powerful irons the bit temperature would be too high and the bit would self destruct by oxidation of the metal.Without the thermostat the only way you can keep the temperature of the bit down is by continueous use soldering on the job or by placing the iron bit in a heat sink when not in use. Its why some of us use irons without thermostats but use simple controllers to turn the power down into the the iron. I use a light bulb dimmer control on a plain cheap iron, when I need the extra output I simply turn up the control. Brandon UK ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 02:37:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 01:24:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: Witchdoc3@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Life, death and art, was Re: Mermaid Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:06:34 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.15634.0> References: <<1999Apr11.18498.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk As someone who's lived all my life with moderate to severe depression, I can relate to some of Sylvia Plath's work, especially *The Bell Jar* which is a semi-autobiographical (I think) novel. She put into words a lot of what I couldn't and helped me get a bit of a handle on my own psyche at a time in my life when I thought I might go down in flames. yes Sparks, I too have struggled with some serious depression...but I also have desperately wanted to climb out of it and while its always good to know your not the only one...seeing someone slide down deeper and deeper like that makes it worse, not better.... Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 02:53:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 01:24:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: Witchdoc3@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mermaid Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:03:21 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.15321.0> References: <<1999Apr11.15576.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk > but *please* leave the explicit blood and guts to the imagination; didn't > those people learn *anything* from Hitchcock?!). Now *that* would almost make > opera interesting! now now, you are saying this to someone who hangs on just about every word Stephen King ever wrote..... Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 03:56:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 01:57:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 05:03:31 +0000 Message-ID: <199904120855.EAA24535@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > I believe you'll find that any stress fractures were due to > improperly cut glass, and not to the actual shape of the glass. Really, Bob? How about L-shaped pieces of glass? I've seen work that included such shapes and almost every one of them had cracked. I think one has to allow for the nature of the material when working in any medium and there *are some shapes that one just shouldn't cut into glass, no? Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 04:54:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 02:58:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!rwl50 From: Rick To: rrk , glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 02:54:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr11.195423.0> Precedence: bulk Bob, you beat me too it. I would like to hear about real life examples of stress cracking due to saw cuts. I have used a saw on designs I chose to keep in one piece rather than to break it up with cit lines. I agree with your comment around glass that has a poor fit, be it cut with a band saw or a carbide cutter. I'm pretty sure the saw manufacturers have their own perspective on the subject too. I would think one would be more careful making all sweeping statements regarding the after effects of a saw cut piece. To another point, Marion asked for a simple comaparison of ring vs band saw, not rather or not she should use a saw or not. Since I have only used a band saw, I can't make that comparison, but I have yet to read a reply that makes one. All I have seen is the poor woman geting beat up on for asking the question. Well you know what they say about opinions, and thats what makes this group so great, every one gets to express them. Rick === http://home.fuse.net/crafts _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 06:17:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 04:30:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr From: CncptThnkr@aol.com To: belliveau-gerald@email.msn.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: whichdoc3 aka Witchdoc3 (lest we get our witches confused with our Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:28:27 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr12.112827.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/11/99 10:14:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, belliveau-gerald@email.msn.com writes: > Get a life and try to combine all messages by day into one at least. Hey Gerald, Correct me if I am wrong, but combining "all messages into one at least" means more than one is acceptable. Possibly you meant combine all messages into only one. Oh well, that is just semantics. What I really wanted to say was I appreciate Sparks sending multiple messages. If I am not interested in a thread I can delete the messages based on the subject line. Wish everyone was as conscientious as Sparks regarding using the subject line to convey what the message is regarding. Keep up the good work Sparks. Oh, Gerald almost forgot, pleased to meet ya, feel free to share your own fantastic glass ideas, we are always willing to hear them. IA (last in a long line of Spark's groupies) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 07:06:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 05:31:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Patina and wax, was Re: Help with soldering Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:29:44 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr12.122944.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/11/99 4:10:58 PM, esavad@home.net wrote: >Melissa Hall wrote: >> >> Hi Mike, >> Do you wax after you finish cleaning your solder lines? > >usually. sometimes if it's going to be a real pain not to wax, i won't. >but so it looks professional i usually put the wax on it. One notable exception: if you're going for a really ***BLACK*** patina. I did a repair a while back on a small lampshade with that really black patina and tried what someone had suggested not too long before, applying the patina carefully to keep it as much on the solder as possible (to avoid discoloring the glass), not rubbing it at all, and leaving it for a couple of hours. Then I rinsed and dried the piece thoroughly and instead of polishing the whole thing, I took a rag that had a little bit of polish residue left on it from an earlier job and just wiped the fingerprints off. I suppose time will tell if it holds up as well as the original, but I for one couldn't tell by looking where the repair left off and the original began. Speaking of putting the patina on the solder and not on the glass, I now have a new tool in the toolbox. (I hope you'll all excuse me if I mentioned this before.) Christie will be the first to tell you I'm among the world's sloppiest patina-ers, and a few weeks ago we were running low on black and had a whole big panel to finish. So I brought in one of those sponge-top applicator bottles, the kind they use in offices to "lick" envelopes, half-filled it, and was utterly amazed at how little patina solution it took to do the entire panel. That little 50-cent bottle paid for itself immediately! An empty "glue pen" bottle works great too. Sparks (now in round 3 with the MacInTax download and have to bag it because a big thunderstorm just blew in and I have to leave for a gig anyway, grrrrrrrrrrrr!) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 07:35:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 05:33:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pobox.com!Northernlights From: "Northernlights (Tracy Reitmann)" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: support question Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:35:26 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.23526.0> Precedence: bulk (...we interrupt this e-mail to bring the following announcement, "btw I've loved all the posts on who considers what art, topless booths at art/craft fairs, etc. that's what makes bungi so interesting and lively -- all the diversity of topics!"....we now return you to the lurker e-mail already in progress...) Last night I started designing two long, narrow leaded panels that are going to be hanging side by side -- each one measures 14" x 34.5" . Dutiful me started thinking right away "okay, draw in where the horizontal support's going to go," and then I began to re-think it. I started thinking that at 14" it might be narrow enough that I don't need horizontal support. I don't know that I've ever heard any kind of "rule of thumb" on support, just basically "use your own best judgment." Does anyone have any thoughts on this? The piece is going to be basically geometric, 2" outside border, with 2" square bevels in the corners, next inside border is going to be 1" with 1" square bevels on the inside corners so the area where the design is going to go winds down to 8" x 27.75". I figured I'd better post this before I finally came up with a design I fell in love with only to find out I have to re-draw it with a support line! Thanks! P.S. Keep up all the posts Sparks, et al., I love them all! And if, by chance, there are posts I don't like or care to read (ahem, Mr. Gerry Belliveaau), there's always the one great gift Bill Gates gave us....that good old delete key! If anyone has a problem finding that particular key on their keyboard, I know there's a few folks here who would be more than happy to "walk you through" finding it. :> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 07:37:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 05:43:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:48:56 +0000 Message-ID: <199904121241.IAA26013@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Bob, you beat me too it. I would like to hear about > real life examples of stress cracking due to saw cuts. Before I get beat up on, too, I'd like to note that my comment about L-shaped pieces and other shapes that are inappropriate to glass had nothing to do with saws, band or otherwise. Saws make it possible to cut any shape, but IMHO not all shapes are appropriate, since some shapes will inevitably break regardless of whether they've been sawn out or painstakingly grozed out. And by "inevitably" I mean "there's just no way around it: they'll break eventually." Nature of the material. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 08:06:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 06:05:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: maruca@netaxs.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: whichdoc3 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:46:36 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.14636.0> References: <<1999Apr11.193839.0@[207.126.97.2]>> Organization: SBWSA Precedence: bulk I second that motion for anyone who posts in mime. I automatically delete those, but I read Gary's (have to go to View and then Page Source, a real PIA). Keep the posts coming Sparks. I love em. BTW re ring saw. My husband decided I needed a Taurus Ring Saw last Oct. It's still sitting in the box and probably will be sent back. I haven't had a need for it yet, so if I can't cut a particular cut by hand, then it shouldn't be done. Just MHO. Carol T maruca@netaxs.com wrote: > While we are complaining, could you kindly learn to post to email lists in > plain text only? > > On Sun, 11 Apr 1999, Gerry Belliveaau wrote: > > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > > > ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860 > > Content-Type: text/plain; > > charset="iso-8859-1" > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > I just opened my mail and no wonder there was 32 new messages, 9 came = > > from whichdoc3@aol.com. Get a life and try to combine all messages by = > > day into one at least. > > > > ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860 > > Content-Type: text/html; > > charset="iso-8859-1" > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > > > > > http-equiv=3DContent-Type> > > > > > > > > > >
I just opened my mail and no wonder = > > there was 32=20 > > new messages, 9 came from > href=3D"mailto:whichdoc3@aol.com">whichdoc3@aol.com. Get a life and = > > try to=20 > > combine all messages by day into one at = > > least.
> > > > ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860-- > > > > > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 08:29:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 06:33:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "bungi group" , "rrk" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:25:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.52548.0> Precedence: bulk Geez Bob...i only asked her a question. And I do think I know a little about cutting glass into irregular shapes. Your reasoning for using a bandsaw is a tad misguided. Luddite ?? I think not. my best, pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: rrk To: pj friend Cc: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, April 11, 1999 10:44 PM Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw > > >pj friend wrote: > >> My question is....if you have been doing glass for three years without >> it..why do you need it now? > >PJ, > >Well geez PJ, women washed clothes by hand for 10's of thousands of years, >why should they want a washing machine? People walked everywhere on foot for >most of recorded history with only the elite having the alternative of >animal-drawn conveyances, why would anyone want a bicycle? Or an >automobile? Furthermore, if God had wanted man to fly, he would have given >him wings right? > >Following the above reasoning, in our domain, then why use a grinder? Why >not just use a carborundum stone and smooth the glass edges only by hand? > >The glass bandsaw is a definite advance in glass cutting and a good tool to >have for anyone cutting flat glass into irregular shapes. It is not the only >tool, and shouldn't be the only tool a craftsman uses, but it is a good one >since it allows designs previously difficult to impossible to achieve by >other means to actually be realized. Stained glass is an extremely >heterogeneous mixture with the hardness, grain structure, and thickness >varying quite a bit even within a single pane of glass. As everyone on this >list knows, this renders glass cutting somewhat unpredictable. A glass >bandsaw removes a great deal of this unpredictability and this is >particularly important for pieces with inside curves. > >This bungi glass list has a definite Luddite flavor at times ... none more >apparent than in this particular response. This neo-luddite strain is >particularly amusing on this email list since we're all communicating though >computers. > >Regards .......... Bob > >PS ... I'm switching back and forth between computers, thanks to all that >responded to my question about wholesale glass prices. I'll write during the >next week to those that responded. > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 08:40:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 06:41:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "Suzanne" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: whichdoc3 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:37:51 -0400 Message-ID: <199904121338.JAA09113@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 4/12/99 1:12 AM Suzanne gunnx4@ix.netcom.com >> I just opened my mail and no wonder there was 32 new messages, 9 came >> from whichdoc3@aol.com. Get a life > > >Gerry, > >So nice to meet you too. >If you only got 32 email messages today, and 9 were from Sparks, >consider yourself blessed. >I personally found your email the most unpleasant to hit my box today. ...and I fully agree with Suzanne. Everything Sparks has to say is worth reading, unlike your post. Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 08:53:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 06:51:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: net-magic.net!tcn From: tcn@net-magic.net (Boatwright, Walter) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Plug Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:58:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.55844.0> Organization: The Glass Safari Precedence: bulk Hi Linda Jo...Thanks for the plug about the saw and your local Retailer..Just need a few hundred more..HeHe.. THANKS Walter ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 09:09:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 06:56:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Curves and stress, was Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:55:58 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr12.135558.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/11/99 11:15:15 PM, ezcomezgo@earthlink.net wrote: >Stress fractures should only occur when the glass is not >correctly cut. They tend to occur over time especially in large windows/panels, as the window settles (and eventually sags if it's not properly maintained). Julie Sloan's book has a good photo of a star made of 5 deeply curved "interwoven" pieces, and every piece is cracked through the curve in almost exactly the same place. No matter how well they're cut, pieces (especially long ones) with deep curves are particularly subject to inward or outward stresses at the curves. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 09:15:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:00:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: giraffe joos Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:57:33 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr12.135733.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/11/99 11:36:18 PM, gecko@ipa.net wrote: >Did we ever determine who is offering Giraffe Joos for sale? I seem to remember reading recently that you can get it from one of our own: debbie taylor kleeman@one.net http://www.taylordexpressions.com your complete stained glass supply source 1-888-488-9616 No, I don't get a percentage........ Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 09:39:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:04:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ipa.net!gecko From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: High/Low Art in Tarp Covered Outdoor Booths Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:02:50 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990412090250.00696464@popd.ipa.net> References: <> Precedence: bulk Aye! I DO grow a beard for the festivals!! I just started my upcoming festival beard this last weekend. Unfortunately, for the 'flaming red' part, I'd have to borrow some Miss Clairol from one of my roommies. Hmmmmm...... Nah! I seriously doubt that Rob Roy had black roots! At 09:57 AM 4/12/99 EDT, you wrote: > >In a message dated 4/11/99 7:44:31 PM, you wrote: > >>I looked like a cross between Rob Roy McGregor and Jethro Clampitt. > > > >Then again, with 9 yards of good wool plaid, even a big guy like you could >probably construct a convincing toga in an emergency! > >What my enquiring mind wants to know is: do you grow a great flamin' red >beard for these festivals? > > >Sparks > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 10:14:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:31:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Get a life Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:37:24 +0000 Message-ID: <199904121429.KAA27252@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Oh, Gerald almost forgot, pleased to meet ya, feel free to share > your own fantastic glass ideas, we are always willing to hear them. D'you really thing we'll ever hear from Gerald again? I think he was an MS-log-on-bitch-cumudgeonly-log-off-one-shot wonder. He ID'd himself as being from Microsoft Corporation, so he probably has his hands full meeting his daily quota of calls. (Ouch! That was mean-spirited of me, wasn't it?) Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 10:35:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:31:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: have to bag it Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:37:23 +0000 Message-ID: <199904121429.KAA27192@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Sparks (now in round 3 with the MacInTax download and have to bag it > because a big thunderstorm just blew in and I have to leave > for a gig anyway, grrrrrrrrrrrr!) Please allow me to highly recommend cable modems. If you have cable TV, I suspect that your cable company offers cable modem service at speeds (in my case) of 55 times faster than dialup 28.8 baud modems. Zoweeee! (love it!). Hereabouts, the cable company *gives the modem to you (a $350 value, they say), installation is about $50 (spread over 3 months here), monthly cost is about $30 (I eliminated at $26/month dedicated modem phone line to offset that) and you're ALWAYS ON LINE ( just like your TV set if you're on cable ... turn it on, you're connected; launch your email tool or your web browser, you're connected ... no dialup, no cutoffs. In the past 5 months, I've NEVER been cut off. My cable supplier is Adelphia ... see http://powerlink.adelphia.net/ if you're interested). Download times are unbelievably fast. Security is just as good; rock solid. Albert P.S. Sparks, what're you doing dl'ing tax software NOW, three days before the deadline? I did that about 2 weeks ago, realized that I'd NEVER figurer out that IRS mess, called an accountant, took all my stuff to him. I specialize in ANYTHING but taxes; that's what HE does. So I turned it over to him. Sleeping better now. A. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 10:39:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:27:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: post.queensu.ca!seguinr From: "Rachelle Seguin" To: "Bungi Glass" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: full lamp forms Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:24:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.72423.0> Precedence: bulk I recently purchased a 16" full lamp form. I have a pattern for a lamp (Worden system) that required a sectional form and you do this six times. I'm wondering if there is some way to use this pattern with a full form rather than just a sectional. It seems to me there must be some way to do it. Can anyone help? Rachelle Seguin M.A. Research Associate Department of Family Medicine Queen's University ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 10:58:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:00:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Stress Fractures,,, Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:47:46 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.04746.0> Precedence: bulk Good Morning Bungi'ans, I have been thinking also about buying one of the ring or band saws. And have read the posts about stress fractures, and wondered about them. The edges that I see from the samples at the glass store seem to look like they have just been ground, with a little flaking like someone used a fast bit. Now I understand that some of us on the list, think of glass as a medium that ought to last for decades, if not longer. And some of us might think that once the piece has left our shop or bench, or it has been around for a few years, that it has perhaps served its useful visual/artistic life, or perhaps is not our problem anymore, maybe is/might even be about planned obsolescence. Thinking about how the saw blade is traveling through the glass sheet body (vertically, instead of in parallel), I can see that very small, perhaps microscopic cracks could be being introduced into the edge wall of the saw blade kerf. Now, I am not a glass expert by any stretch of the imagination, only I could see that with this introduction of the small cracks, even just a few microscopic ones, that with the effects of thermal heating and cooling (from being in a window), that the expansion and contraction could place the needed and required stress's on the glass to make or help those small or microscopic cracks to enlarge, into the visual detection range. Just my two cheap machine made glass marbles worth,,, ;-) And no, I still have not decided one way or the other. Only am willing to look more in-depth at the possibilities of what is offered. Oh, almost forgot, anybody know if $1.50 per pound is a good price for original handrolled glass sheets??? A local glass blower has offered me that cost on buying sheets of glass from them. I have looked at some samples, and like the glass. Only do not know if the cost/quality is good. Mainly because I have only used machine made glass. Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 11:05:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:30:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: glass saw, yes or no Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:37:51 +0000 Message-ID: <199904121530.LAA27900@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > BTW re ring saw. My husband decided I needed a Taurus Ring Saw last > Oct. It's still sitting in the box and probably will be sent back. > I haven't had a need for it yet, so if I can't cut a particular cut > by hand, then it shouldn't be done. I'll second *that emotion! If it can't be cut by hand, it shouldn't be cut. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 11:20:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:32:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: townsqr.com!tinkerbell From: "tinkerbell" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: witchdoc Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:35:45 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.33545.0> Precedence: bulk I also enjoy the posts from Witchdoc...was hoping to see 9 more today hehehehe tinkerbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 11:26:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:38:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netphase.net!deskins From: "Lou Deskins" To: bungi glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: whichdoc3 aka Witchdoc3 (lest we get our witches confused with Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:38:54 -0400 Message-ID: <199904121538.LAA10630@www.netphase.net> Precedence: bulk IA (last in a long line of Spark's groupies) not last IA.... but one of many who agree with you, and love Spark's posts !!! If you don't like getting so much email - don't sign up to a mailing list duhhhh >In a message dated 4/11/99 10:14:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >belliveau-gerald@email.msn.com writes: > >> Get a life and try to combine all messages by day into one at least. > >Hey Gerald, > >Correct me if I am wrong, but combining "all messages into one at least" >means more than one is acceptable. Possibly you meant combine all messages >into only one. Oh well, that is just semantics. What I really wanted to say >was I appreciate Sparks sending multiple messages. If I am not interested in >a thread I can delete the messages based on the subject line. Wish everyone >was as conscientious as Sparks regarding using the subject line to convey >what the message is regarding. Keep up the good work Sparks. > >Oh, Gerald almost forgot, pleased to meet ya, feel free to share your own >fantastic glass ideas, we are always willing to hear them. > >IA (last in a long line of Spark's groupies) > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 11:32:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:10:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Tim & Adriana Atwood" Subject: Re: Suggestions for a stop Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:23:52 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.172352.0> Precedence: bulk >>3. Steam bend wood. Many woods do not steam bend well - you definitely do NOT want to use pine for steam bending - I would suggest reading up on what woods are best. You will need a steamer - a section of plastic sewer pipe with caps on each end then attached to a kettle can be made to work. There are also chemicals (mainly ammonia) which improve the bending characteristics of wood. You will need to use full safety precautions (concentrated ammonia steam can really do a number on your eyes and skin).<< Let me add a couple of pointers that came my way while steam bending frames for a boat. Use green oak, not kiln dried oak, as fresh from the tree as possible. Bend over a form that is shaped to the inside of your oval and use a flexable steel backing plate to prevent splintering. The backing plate is bent on the outside of the wood and holds the wood to the form. An easier and better way out might be to pay the necessary price to have a high class wood shop make you sawn molding. I have never seen stops for an oval that did not overlap the face of the door. These stops are best sawn, joined and routed. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 11:50:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:42:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: whichdoc3 Date: Mon Apr 12 09:41:21 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.71921.0> Organization: Taylor'd Expressions Precedence: bulk boy i must be lucky....i get about 150 e-mails a day---with the extra ones from sparks, i get about 20 a day from "her" --- funny how luck i am can make someone else feel imposed upon....hummmmm oh well, again, my insane opinion.... debbie jo taylor kleeman@one.net www.taylordexpressions.com your complete stained glass supply source 1-888-488-9616 On Sunday, April 11, 1999 9:17 PM, Gerry Belliveaau [SMTP:belliveau-gerald@email.msn.com] wrote: > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > I just opened my mail and no wonder there was 32 new messages, 9 came = > from whichdoc3@aol.com. Get a life and try to combine all messages by = > day into one at least. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > http-equiv=3DContent-Type> > > > > >
I just opened my mail and no wonder = > there was 32=20 > new messages, 9 came from href=3D"mailto:whichdoc3@aol.com">whichdoc3@aol.com. Get a life and = > try to=20 > combine all messages by day into one at = > least.
> > ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE8447.8D3A3860-- > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 12:06:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:50:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Fw: Desag Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:37:11 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.23711.0> Precedence: bulk Everyone, Arnie has said that he will check on the DESAG glass for us. Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: Arnie Bazensky To: Bud Britt Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 08:22 AM Subject: Re: Desag |Bud, | |I will contact my sources at Schott Corporation in new York, the distributor |of Dersag's product line. I will inform you when I have some interesting |info! | |Thanks, | |Arn |-----Original Message----- |From: Bud Britt |To: Arnie Bazensky ; Bungi |Date: Friday, April 09, 1999 6:13 PM |Subject: Desag | | |>Hello Everyone, |> |>I just looked up some literature that Mr. Arnie Bazensky (West Coast |Manager |>of Schott Glass, Germany) gave me. On the back page, it reads DESAG with |>their logo, and below it, "A Schott Group Company" |> |>The contact info is: |> |>Deutsche Spezialglass AG |>P.O. Box 2032 |>W-3223 Grunenplan |>Germany |> |>Telephone (0 51 87) 7 71-530 |>Telefax (0 51 87) 771547 |>Telex 175187810 desag d |>Teletex 5187810=DESAG |> |>I do not know if the mouthblown glass is still being made, although I am |>sure that if you would like to contact Arnie directly, he would be able to |>find out, and perhaps get a lead on some for you. |> |>Arnie Bazensky |>E-mail Address(es): |> ajb.sgt-west@worldnet.att.net |> |>Arnie, folks from the Bungi Stained Glass mailing list, might be asking |>about the DESAG glass. |> |> |>Sincerely, |>Bud Britt |> |>computerministry@unitytustin.org |>page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, |>http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ |> |> |> | ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 12:12:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:54:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: , Subject: Re: giraffe joos Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:42:26 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.24226.0> Precedence: bulk >From what she told me, she gives everyone on the list a bulk discount, that is, passes the bulk prices on in the form of the single unit prices. I guess you might think of that as getting a percentage, only the result goes to the buyer, not the lead giver. Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 09:30 AM Subject: Re: giraffe joos | |In a message dated 4/11/99 11:36:18 PM, gecko@ipa.net wrote: | |>Did we ever determine who is offering Giraffe Joos for sale? | |I seem to remember reading recently that you can get it from one of our own: | | debbie taylor | kleeman@one.net | http://www.taylordexpressions.com | your complete stained glass supply source | 1-888-488-9616 | |No, I don't get a percentage........ | | |Sparks | |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 12:33:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:28:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Art: High Low and The Simpsons Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:26:10 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.32610.0> Precedence: bulk Considering the recent discussions of High Art, Low Art, Junk Art, Shock Art - I think this is pertinent. I know it is only marginally related to glass, but I hope you will all forgive my little transgression. Did any of you see the new episode of the Simpsons? I don't know when you get the Simpsons where you are, but this episode said it better than I ever could. Homer becomes instantly famous for his "Outsider Art". Pokes fun at just about every form of art there is - has all the artistic pretensions - snobbish gallery owners - museums - Euro-trash - Andy Warhol - Dada. The image of Picasso writing nasty cubist letters to the editor was great. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 12:43:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:39:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Angel Design, and just made a box Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:20:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.92026.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:seaspray@island.net >3) consider the large custom panel market rather than the small gift market...my experience is that this is where I can make a decent living, not in the small gift market. Christie and Dorothy may have a different input= on this, however.< Well, Carol, I guess you've seen my reply to Bud by now. But as to whether to do the small gift market verus doing the large custom panel market, I say you can do both. I do. About 55% of my income is from large custom panels. Then 40% from the small gift market, and the rest from retail sales of other artists' works in my store. Different strokes for different folks. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 13:17:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:40:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: outdoor booths Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:20:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.92028.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Family Account >The PEOPLEselling the stained glass need the shade...or industrial strength sun block!< You got it - sun block! Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 13:20:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:47:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Help with soldering Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:20:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.92021.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Melissa Hall >Hi Mike, Do you wax after you finish cleaning your solder lines? Melissa< Sorry about this, but the first image that popped into my demented little mind was one of Mike waxing his legs after soldering. Oh! You mean waxing the stained glass panel! Now if this question was aimed at Patrick, we would all know what was being waxed (she said with a wicked gleem in her eye). Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 13:48:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:55:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Albert Lewis" , Subject: Re: Get a life Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:42:06 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.3426.0> Precedence: bulk Well, one of my friends at the church has a daughter that works for MS, and she (her daughter) is in major physical body upset (acid stomach, shakes, etc.) right now. Seems that she has to give a computer software demonstration for Mr. Bill, and is worried about his reaction if the software does not work perfectly. Seems something happened awhile back about/during a major PR event, and some buggy software that Mr. Bill himself demonstrated, and it bugged out on him. Perhaps with that kind of stress, them MS folks, want everything just so so, sweet to the point, with out any of the sights and sounds and smells, and learning, along the way,,, Seems like a pretty drab and un-communicative way to live, enjoy, celebrate, experience, just plain share life with everyone else !!! It's amazing what a little thing like a brain aneurysm will do to someone's outlook on life, and no, I do not wish a similar event or occurrence on anyone, only some times, it takes what it takes to wake someone up to what life is about................. Maybe if he chooses to stick around, and share, and read, and experience, and learn that he already belongs when he chooses to,,, Just a hope,,, ;-) Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 10:30 AM Subject: Re: Get a life | |> Oh, Gerald almost forgot, pleased to meet ya, feel free to share |> your own fantastic glass ideas, we are always willing to hear them. | |D'you really thing we'll ever hear from Gerald again? I think he was |an MS-log-on-bitch-cumudgeonly-log-off-one-shot wonder. He ID'd |himself as being from Microsoft Corporation, so he probably has his |hands full meeting his daily quota of calls. (Ouch! That was |mean-spirited of me, wasn't it?) | |Albert |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 13:53:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:00:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Gnomon Testimonies Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:23:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.92316.0> Precedence: bulk Whoever has failed to follow this thread has surely missed some of the most hysterically humorous and fabulous writing in the history of mankind= ! Even the cats forgive you, Blake.... I am still wiping tears from my eyes= ! Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 14:01:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:07:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Get a life Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:15:22 +0000 Message-ID: <199904121807.OAA01432@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > computer software demonstration for Mr. Bill, and is worried about > his reaction if the software does not work perfectly. MS software work perfectly? In what world? Not in this one! Fat, buggy code, overweening arrogance ... it all adds up to MS on top, OS-wise, and Mr. Bill buying yet another thousand companies, but it trickles down to people like the aforementioned MS hacker's attitude, I'm afraid. I wonder if he has any idea how much furor his disdainful comments have evoked. Probably not, since I suspect he shot his wad, so to speak, and won't be back again. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 14:15:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:17:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stress Fractures,,, Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:23:16 +0000 Message-ID: <199904121815.OAA01709@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > once the piece has left our shop or bench, or it > has been around for a few years, that it has perhaps served its > useful visual/artistic life ... Even badly made work will survive its maker. Well-built work should not need repairs/restoration for 150 years. But all work should be well enough thought of by makers to take that into consideration IMHO. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Louis T himself is looking down and roaring with laughter and amazement that what he considered "decoration" (and thus disposable, a la the Las Vegas casinos' use of glass) is being treated with the awe and respect that he never intended. > introduction of the small cracks, even just a few microscopic ones, > that with the effects of thermal heating and cooling (from being in > a window), that the expansion and contraction could place the needed > and required stress's on the glass to make or help those small or > microscopic cracks to enlarge, into the visual detection range. Forget about the effect of expansion and contraction of the glass; it's so small as to be negligible. It has no effect at all. The introduction of microscopic cracks (or subliminal scores, if you will) is an interesting idea that deserves some thought and research. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 14:21:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:27:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cyberbeach.net!dayle From: Dayle To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Get a life Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:26:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.102615.0> References: <<199904121429.KAA27252@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Organization: Celestial Luminosities Precedence: bulk Can we just let it go? I enjoy Sparks' commentaries as much as anyone but I thought someone also said we weren't supposed to get personal. What goes around comes around so let's just stick to using the many times mentioned "delete" button. Just my opinion. ..................Now let's get back to those glass tutu's etc. (never really wondered what was worn underneath them.....oops, I'm getting a visual...gotta go!) Albert Lewis wrote: > > Oh, Gerald almost forgot, pleased to meet ya, feel free to share > > your own fantastic glass ideas, we are always willing to hear them. > > D'you really thing we'll ever hear from Gerald again? I think he was > an MS-log-on-bitch-cumudgeonly-log-off-one-shot wonder. He ID'd > himself as being from Microsoft Corporation, so he probably has his > hands full meeting his daily quota of calls. (Ouch! That was > mean-spirited of me, wasn't it?) > > Albert > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 14:42:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:35:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: glass saw, yes or no Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:28:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.10287.0> Precedence: bulk I third that emotion. pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 2:29 PM Subject: Re: glass saw, yes or no >> BTW re ring saw. My husband decided I needed a Taurus Ring Saw last >> Oct. It's still sitting in the box and probably will be sent back. >> I haven't had a need for it yet, so if I can't cut a particular cut >> by hand, then it shouldn't be done. > >I'll second *that emotion! >If it can't be cut by hand, it shouldn't be cut. > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 15:02:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:19:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Gerry Belliveaau" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: whichdoc3 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:17:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.111755.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Gerry Belliveaau" >Get a life and try to combine all messages by =3D day into one at least. < Gerry, we request people do NOT do this because many of us only read the threads = we are interested in and delete those we are not. If you post everything= on one then we're all forced to read the whole shebang and that takes more time than some of us would like to spend. I even delete all mail from people who refuse= to edit. This is just good list manners. P.S. Are you new to the list... haven't notic= ed any contributions from you before? Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 15:03:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:19:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Rick Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:18:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.11189.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Rick >Well you know what they say about opinions, and thats what makes this group so great, every one gets to express them. < And it's nice to see some newcomers (or lurkers) commenting now and then,= too. Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 15:29:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:19:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Rick Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:18:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.11187.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Rick >ll I have seen is the poor woman geting beat up on for asking the question.< When Marion comes back to us in a few years, the pros on this list will kindly tell her how to re-design the pieces so she can cut them by hand..= From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 15:30:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:20:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "bungi group" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Get a life Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:35:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.93519.0> Precedence: bulk Is there something in the air today??? or did we all get up on the wrong side of bed??? My best, pj (fluffing her aura) From: Albert Lewis To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 1:35 PM Subject: Re: Get a life > >> Oh, Gerald almost forgot, pleased to meet ya, feel free to share >> your own fantastic glass ideas, we are always willing to hear them. > >D'you really thing we'll ever hear from Gerald again? I think he was >an MS-log-on-bitch-cumudgeonly-log-off-one-shot wonder. He ID'd >himself as being from Microsoft Corporation, so he probably has his >hands full meeting his daily quota of calls. (Ouch! That was >mean-spirited of me, wasn't it?) > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 15:37:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:20:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Glenna Rand Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Back From Vegas Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:18:01 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.11181.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Glenna Rand >I may never be able to sleep......< Oh, oh... you're in trouble now, gal! Say, did you every present your neighbors = with that lovely window you rebuilt for them? What did they say? Best, Dani ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 15:54:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:20:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Rick Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:18:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.11184.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Rick >Bob, you beat me too it. I would like to hear about real life examples of stress cracking due to saw cuts.< Again, get your hands on the book "Conservation of Stained Glass in America, A Manual for Studios and Caretakers" and look on page 86 for a great exampl= e. And, the other option is to go into serious repair business and fix about 1,00= 0 o' them stress fractures! = Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 15:58:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:21:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: rrk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:17:58 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.111758.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by rrk >I believe you'll find that any stress fractures were due to improperly cut glass, and not to the actual shape of the glass. < Absolutely not, it's the shape of the glass. If you can get your hands o= n a copy of Julie Sloan's book, "Conservation of Stained Glass in America", there is = a marvelous example on page 86. The caption underneath reads, "Pieces cut with deep inside curves are very likely to break as the window settles." Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 17:46:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:20:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Glenna Rand Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Back From Vegas Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:18:01 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.11181.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Glenna Rand >I may never be able to sleep......< Oh, oh... you're in trouble now, gal! Say, did you every present your neighbors = with that lovely window you rebuilt for them? What did they say? Best, Dani ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 17:59:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:20:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Rick Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:18:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.11184.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Rick >Bob, you beat me too it. I would like to hear about real life examples of stress cracking due to saw cuts.< Again, get your hands on the book "Conservation of Stained Glass in America, A Manual for Studios and Caretakers" and look on page 86 for a great exampl= e. And, the other option is to go into serious repair business and fix about 1,00= 0 o' them stress fractures! = Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 18:14:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:21:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: rrk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:17:58 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.111758.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by rrk >I believe you'll find that any stress fractures were due to improperly cut glass, and not to the actual shape of the glass. < Absolutely not, it's the shape of the glass. If you can get your hands o= n a copy of Julie Sloan's book, "Conservation of Stained Glass in America", there is = a marvelous example on page 86. The caption underneath reads, "Pieces cut with deep inside curves are very likely to break as the window settles." Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 18:30:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:00:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: email.msn.com!belliveau-gerald From: "Gerry Belliveaau" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Get a life Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:52:05 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.5525.0> Organization: Microsoft Corporation Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BE84E3.444EA540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I use the e-mail to read advice on glass subjects and not atbs thats = coming through. If you have a personel message for someone to read use = the reguliar e-mail. Thought this was just for items pertaining to = glass and hoppies. If I spent all my time on the computer coming up with all kinds of = other subjects I would not have time to work on my glass projects.=20 If you think this is rude so be it. Gerry =20 ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BE84E3.444EA540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I use the e-mail to read advice on = glass=20 subjects and not atbs thats coming through. If you have a personel = message for=20 someone to read use the reguliar e-mail. Thought this was just for = items=20 pertaining to glass and hoppies.
 If I spent all my time on the = computer=20 coming up with all kinds of other subjects I would not have time to work = on my=20 glass projects. 
If you think this is rude so be = it.
Gerry  
------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BE84E3.444EA540-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 18:31:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:35:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Albert Lewis" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Get a life Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:32:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.113226.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Albert Lewis" >D'you really thing we'll ever hear from Gerald again? I think he was = an MS-log-on-bitch-cumudgeonly-log-off-one-shot wonder. He ID'd = himself as being from Microsoft Corporation, so he probably has his = hands full meeting his daily quota of calls. (Ouch! That was = mean-spirited of me, wasn't it?) < You're a stinker, shame on you! The guy probably is just constipated or= something.... could be worse.... he could be getting a divorce or something and then telling us to do anatomically impossible things! Best, Dani (in hysterics over this whole thread.... good grief!) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 18:31:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:35:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Albert Lewis" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: glass saw, yes or no Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:32:35 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.113235.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Albert Lewis" >I'll second *that emotion! If it can't be cut by hand, it shouldn't be cut. < I third it and am stuffing the ballot box!! Best, Dani ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 18:56:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:11:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Art: High Low and The Simpsons Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:07:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.12753.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Tim & Adriana Atwood" > Did any of you see the new episode of the Simpsons? I don't know when yo= u get the Simpsons where you are, but this episode said it better than I ev= er could. Homer becomes instantly famous for his "Outsider Art". Pokes fun= at just about every form of art there is - has all the artistic pretensions = - snobbish gallery owners - museums - Euro-trash - Andy Warhol - Dada. The= image of Picasso writing nasty cubist letters to the editor was great. < Been there, done that, too old now.... speaking of outsider art, we recently juried an art auction for the Alzheimers Assn. Memories in the Making program here. A good friend of ours administers the program at Alzheimers facilities, man= y artists friends donate their time to conduct the "classes", a frameshop donated t= he framing, and 34 pieces auctioned for over $50,000! Almost $1500 per piece and in = a town where the average sales price of an original piece is about $300. There'= s a really bizarre dynamic going in this scenario.... I haven't quite figured it out= yet. It's not just pure philanthropy either.... Best, Dani Greer (who doesn't watch TV except for Brother Cadfael.) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 18:59:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:22:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Get a life Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:28:02 +0000 Message-ID: <199904122020.QAA04236@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Dani (in hysterics over this whole thread.... good grief!) Yeah, the guy at MS doesn't know what he's missin' Thread's at least as good as tutus and gnomens. A ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 19:05:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:19:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Angel Design, and just made a box Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:18:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.131811.0> References: <<1999Apr12.92026.0>> Precedence: bulk > Message text written by INTERNET:seaspray@island.net > >3) consider the large custom panel market rather than the small gift > market...my experience is that this is where I can make a decent living, > not > in the small gift market. Christie and Dorothy may have a different input= > > on > this, however.< > Remember that I do not make a living out of this. I work full timeand I sell at craft fairs. However, my husband is now able to spend more time on stained glass and has big plans....We are going into more highend things (not just suncatchers), but frankly, I don't have the room to make anything much over 2' by 3' (not that I do that often, anyway.) I do make angels every year and my best selling angel is a simple thing. I am working right now on an angel nightlight...almost have the design... Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 19:08:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:51:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bellsouth.net!mjulson From: Marion Julson To: "Christie A. Wood" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:50:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.135059.0> References: <<199904121321_MC2-7182-FAEE@compuserve.com>> Precedence: bulk Thank you for your kind reply. And thank you to the rest of you for your replies also. I asked for your input as it seems that I too have a husband who thinks that I should have a saw which will make my life in stained glass easier :) I worked up a pattern which includes leaves similar to chrysanthemum leaves which I felt could not be done by hand but I could try to do it with a saw. I also thought it would be easier to cut long curved pieces on a saw than doing it by hand. I don't know if I've read too much of the literature put out by the companies and I expect it to cut, grind and practically foil for me too but except for the woman who told me that the motor ceased on her and the company wouldn't do anything, I felt that the ring would be great. I was able to try out two band saws at a local shop but they had no ring saw for me to try. I'll have to try elsewhere. Thanks again. Marion Christie A. Wood wrote: > Hi there. Welcome to the land of bungi. > > I own a Taurus II Ring Saw, and purchased it after carefully > considering pros & cons of ring saw versus band saw. > I've been using my Taurus II for about 8 months now. I did > have to replace the blade, after it broke due to too much > pressure being applied. But I've never had any trouble > with the motor or any mechanisms, and I've certainly never > had any problems with the company. In fact, their instructions > on replacing the blade are quite straight-forward. > > The reasons why I chose the ring saw over the band saw > are: > > - able to cut in any direction > - nice work surface area > - able to cut most materials, not just glass > > Christie A. Wood > Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, > P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 > http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 19:16:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:05:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Albert Lewis" Subject: Re: Get a life Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:04:36 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.8436.0> Precedence: bulk >>I wonder if he has any idea how much furor his disdainful comments have evoked. Probably not, since I suspect he shot his wad, so to speak, and won't be back again.<< Albert<< Look at it this way Albert: Spark's friends are coming out of the wood work. If I were Sparks I would consider a repost every time I needed cheering up. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 19:25:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:40:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: scci.net!melissah From: Melissa Hall To: atwoods@aisl.bc.ca, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Art: High Low and The Simpsons Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:30:15 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19990412173015.0069db70@scci.net> References: <<1999Apr12.32610.0>> Precedence: bulk At 10:26 AM 4/12/99 -0700, you wrote: >Did any of you see the new episode of the Simpsons? Oh that was a really good one! I feel much better knowing that I'm not the only one watching the Simpsons! And to that Gerry person - Don't have a cow man! Melissa ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 19:26:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:42:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: net-magic.net!tcn From: tcn@net-magic.net (Boatwright, Walter) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Giraffe JOOOSSS Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:50:01 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.13501.0> Organization: The Glass Safari Precedence: bulk Hi Guys...For those of you in the South...The Glass Safari carries a full line of supplies including Giraffee Joos Ask your local retailer to stock it..I'm sure he would be glad to. Thanks Walter ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 19:30:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:44:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Bud Britt" Subject: Re: Stress Fractures,,,(buying no name glass) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:44:05 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.7445.0> Precedence: bulk >>Oh, almost forgot, anybody know if $1.50 per pound is a good price for original handrolled glass sheets??? A local glass blower has offered me that cost on buying sheets of glass from them. I have looked at some samples, and like the glass. Only do not know if the cost/quality is good. Mainly because I have only used machine made glass. Sincerely, Bud Britt<< Larger pieces of scrap glass are often sold for $1.50 to $2.00 a pound and so you are on to a good thing if the quality is good. Generaly speaking, if the glass cuts well and it passes the test of your visual inspection then the quality is there. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 19:44:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:49:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Bud Britt" Subject: Re: Stress Fractures,,, Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:46:42 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.74642.0> Precedence: bulk >>I have been thinking also about buying one of the ring or band saws. << Save your money to buy glass with. Check the archives for many posts that will support that idea. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 19:51:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:32:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: Lee Boe To: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: High art/low art Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:21:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.142141.0> References: <<1999Apr11.19115.0>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Yes , please do post a pic, your booth sounds really great. I've recently had to quit doing even indoor shows, my health is just too shaky anymore, for the physical strain, and mental and physical stress. Even with partners, it has gotten impossible. Sometime in the next couple weeks I will be getting my ankle operated on again (scar tissue from the original ankle fusion has entrapped nerves on both sides of the foot). Owwwwww ichhinginnnnnnn. Hurts all the way up into my back. One of the reasons I've gone into lurking mode. Also I'm on 3 glass e-mail lists, and one ArtMetal list, the volume of e-mail is overwhelming. Just now getting all of Februarys mail read, filed and deleted as need be. Just now 156 messages came in when I logged one. Yelp!!!! We really do need some rain down here in Florida. Fires breaking out all over again. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations Unlurking for a while > > My local Scottish Festival is coming up on May 8th. I *think* I've built a > decent stockpile of inventory. I'm still vascillation on my pricing, but > trying to stick with $2.00 per piece of glass, unless I just don't think I > can get that for it. But I keep going back to the fact that people here > just seem a bit chinzier than, say, Houston Tx, or larger cities. > > I built my booth today!!! I'm very excited about that. It's 8'x8', with > lots of room for sun to shine in, and a means of putting a tarp on top just > in case of rain. (it *wont* rain... it *wont* rain....!!!) It breaks down > into 8' boards, and can be assembled with carriage bolts in about 20 > minutes. I'll post a pic of myself, in my glass booth, in my great-kilt.... > (hopefully making money hand over fist), after the festival. > > G'nite all! > Blake > :-) > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 19:51:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:59:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!chitchay From: Shay Friel To: Stained Glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Tiffany Exhibit Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:01:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr11.16148.0> Precedence: bulk http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/031699_tiff16.htm ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 19:58:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:35:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: First surface mirror's Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:37:17 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.73717.0> Precedence: bulk Does anyone know where one might buy decent priced first surface mirror's? I have heard that this is the kind that you want to use if you are going to make kaleidoscopes. I found some in the Edmund catalog, only they want $12.50 for a 50mm x 50mm piece. That seems a little high for that small of a piece of glass. Be a pretty short scope also. Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 20:15:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:06:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bungi family.... Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:04:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.16442.0> Precedence: bulk Please be assured that this group is welcome to everyone.Many think of it as an extension of their"family". In the course of posting tips and even full directions on all aspects of the art of stained glass, personel comments and many messages may come from only a few of us at any given time.At other times , we all are quite literate. If this is not what you expected,then maybe you should "unsubscribe". Take care, Abbie in Va. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 20:16:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:25:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stress Fractures,,, Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:31:44 +0000 Message-ID: <199904130024.UAA08690@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Glass is a different material However if the theory holds, sawn > and/or glass with a ground edge should have superior strength over > hand cut glass. Yes, but as you say: glass is a different material. Not metal. A ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 20:35:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:53:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Dani Greer" Subject: Re: Band Saw vs Ring Saw Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:50:54 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.115054.0> Precedence: bulk >>Again, get your hands on the book "Conservation of Stained Glass in America, A Manual for Studios and Caretakers" and look on page 86 for a great example.<< And note the curvature of the breaks. Almost a dead give away of a stress crack. Bob Footer for Gerald only: Having been out of town ON GLASS BUSINESS I request permission to exceed nine transmission limit. Now going deep without signal. Will assume pergra unless signaled otherwise prior to exceeding nine msg limit. FOC Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 21:07:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:51:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Linda Jo Letscher" , Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Stress Fractures Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:50:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.185021.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Linda Jo Letscher" >Dani, I am still looking for lamp black so the odds of finding the book your refer to here in town is about a billion to one.< You can order the book from the IGGA web site and/or Art in Architecture Press and every studio should have a copy... it's the latest on conservation an= d a very interesting read, too. = Try a hardware store for the lamp black or black cement color. Lamp blac= k is harder = to find... though didn't someone post on bungi a while back that they use= it for = something related to guns? Have you tried a gun shop? If push comes to shove, I'll mail you a box from my hardware store.... but, I'm sure you'll be ab= le to locate it somewhere. Best, Dani = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 21:32:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:10:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Albert Lewis" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Get a life Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:06:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.19626.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Albert Lewis" >Thread's at least as good as tutus and gnomens.< Hey, some hysterically funny writing going on here... I'm enjoying the laughs immensely... really - you don't know what you're missing. Best, Dani ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 21:51:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:12:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: hotmail.com!mrsdesigns From: "Michele Spruill" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Mail and Message Quantities Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:12:14 PDT Message-ID: <1999Apr13.31214.0> Precedence: bulk Greetings everyone! I'm mostly a lurker here to soak up all the good information I get from reading your posts. I finally can't stand to sit this one out! If you notice I have a hotmail address. I opted to subscribe to this list separate from my family's mail so I don't clog the home e-mail. There are tons of free e-mail services out there! I also appreciate the posts being separated by subject matter as I search out subject matters as I read the mail. Hope this idea helps anyone worried about their mail volume... Michele _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 22:03:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:14:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netaxs.com!maruca From: maruca@netaxs.com To: Gerry Belliveaau Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Get a life Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:12:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr12.191241.0> References: <<1999Apr12.5525.0>> Precedence: bulk On Mon, 12 Apr 1999, Gerry Belliveaau wrote: > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BE84E3.444EA540 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > I use the e-mail to read advice on glass subjects and not atbs thats = > coming through. If you have a personel message for someone to read use = > the reguliar e-mail. Thought this was just for items pertaining to = > glass and hoppies. ^^^^^^ Hoppies? Maybe if Mr. Personality would spend less time avec ses lapins he could learn how to switch to plain text! Ever call M$ Corp? This is the fella who tells you how to make your sofware work! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 22:12:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:52:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Shirley's List" , "Bungi" Subject: Glass Craft Expo '99 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:51:34 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.125134.0> Precedence: bulk I attended Glass Craft Expo '99 in Las Vegas on Saturday, April 10, 1999. Here are my impressions. Please remember that these are just my thoughts. The Expo was divided into two parts composed of workshops for fee and an exhibit hall. I did not attend any workshops but observed that they appeared to be well attended and students on break were enthusiastic. The exhibit area had about 100 exhibits ranging from small studios to major stained glass manafactures. Many would call the number of exhibitors small but there was plenty to see. Unfortunately my suppliers were mostly absent and no doubt will show up at the large show in Long Beach in June. Perhaps 50% of the exhibitors featured or at least had some dichroic glass. Not being a jewelry maker or torch worker I personaly find little use for this interesting glass. There were a dozen or more exhibits of stepping stones and the cement(?) used to make them. Again this is not my area of interest but anyone working in this area would have been well rewarded. There was a very nice garden bench that I considered buying but chickened out because I could make one for about 10% of the price. Now there is a hint! There were about fifteen wholesalers of tools and the like. Try as I might I did not see anything that was new or unavailable to me. For someone new to stained glass this would have been a gold mine. There were very few actual stained glass or sandblasted pieces. Only one drew my attention for long. This was a very finely cut panel at the Spectrum Glass booth that Jim Matthews explained was grouted. It stopped several people while I chatted fusing with Jim. He was very high on Spectrum 100SFS which is a new devitrification resistant clear glass ment for fusing over other Spectrum glass. I will try this just as soon as it becomes available to me. My beveling equipment and design software suppliers both had booths but must have stepped out when they saw me coming. Too bad, I had some good things to say. I was looking to see what might be the wave of the future. Sorry, if I saw it, I did not know it. All in all this was a nice show that could be done in half a day or less. Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 22:21:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:01:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: gentle reminder Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:01:55 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.13155.0> Precedence: bulk Glass????do we do that here, too! (at least the word "GLASS" is in this post) Personal assaults are fine when they get to the personal to whom they are meant for! My personal "inbox assistant" has a lot more room for "DELETE OFF SERVER" designees.........Membership in this club is easy to apply for. enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com Elaine and Howard best lamps on the "net": http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 22:32:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:08:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Gerry Belliveaau" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Get a life Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:06:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.19624.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Gerry Belliveaau" >nd not atbs thats =3D coming through. < You could just try reading the bungi archives for the past three years an= d not waste your time dealing with us bores on a daily basis.... just a thought= From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 22:36:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:46:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: Melissa Hall Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Art: High Low and The Simpsons Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:24:41 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.132441.0> References: <<3.0.2.32.19990412173015.0069db70@scci.net>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk Melissa Hall wrote: > > At 10:26 AM 4/12/99 -0700, you wrote: > >Did any of you see the new episode of the Simpsons? > > Oh that was a really good one! I feel much better knowing that I'm not the > only one watching the Simpsons! > > And to that Gerry person - Don't have a cow man! > > Melissa > > now can you only imagine what they could do on South Park?????? Lets see..Kenny gets killed by a falling piece of glass art decapitating him??????hmmmm??? a school craft fair with a booth filled with stained glass MrHanky ornaments?????? Oh just shoot me now...I am getting REALLY bad here...... Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 22:42:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:47:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: Witchdoc3@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: giraffe joos Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:19:09 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.13199.0> References: <<1999Apr12.135733.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk a dumb question: what is giraffe joos??? BTW..very cute spelling on that there..... Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 22:55:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:14:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: giraffe joos Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:12:27 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr13.41227.0> Precedence: bulk >a dumb question: what is giraffe joos??? BTW..very cute spelling on that >there..... > > >Liz For anyone who missed the beginning of this thread a coupla weeks ago: ------------ Debbie Taylor (who carries the stuff in her catalog, and no, I still don't get a percentage) quotes their blurb: "a hydro-phobic polymer coating for art glass that leaves no residue of any kind and lasts for years. Used properly, it virtually eliminates flux corrosion and oxidation from all types of stained glass projects and out performs wax-type products 10 to 1. quite simply the best finish to use when it really matters." ------------ Suzanne de Tulsa sez: The bottle says it is a hydrophobic :o) polymer coating. You use it instead of wax or polish. Says it lasts for looooonngg time. Then to clean you just wipe with Damp cloth. You just wipe it on with a cloth, let it dry then buff. Easy as pie. I love it. [...] The bottle only says "Another great product from The Glass Giraffe". [...] I still polish like I used to if I am not going to patina...but with patina..you betcha I use the giraffe joos! ------------ I wonder if it's anything like "Rain Dance" finish for cars.......... Sparks (who Turtle-Waxed a glass piece last week when I didn't have the Kem-O-Pro handy) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 23:10:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:52:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Classydad From: Classydad@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Memory is failing Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:47:22 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr13.34722.0> Precedence: bulk I forget, on a leaded panel, is it: A: Solder, patina, cement, polish; or, B: Solder, cement, patina, then polish? Thanks. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 23:12:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:54:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: have to bag it Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:49:11 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr13.34911.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/12/99 12:36:40 PM, alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net wrote: >Please allow me to highly recommend cable modems. [...] Awwwwwwwwwww, maaaaaaaaaaaan, you're makin' me sick! Until we win the Publishers' Clearing House (or I come up with a string of x-thousand dollar masterpieces and/or Rob gets a string of x-thousand dollar musical commisions, we're making do with a good set of rabbit-ears and a pokey 56k modem. As for A-O-Bloody-Hell, it's still the only way we know of to be "5 people for the price of one" (and that's only counting our *present* lives ). >P.S. Sparks, what're you doing dl'ing tax software NOW, three days >before the deadline? Running ahead of last year =8-O At least I got the DL to work this morning! Sparks, wishin' I could afford an accountant too....... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 23:32:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:54:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: full lamp forms Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:49:07 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr13.3497.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/12/99 12:40:11 PM, seguinr@post.queensu.ca wrote: >I'm wondering if there is some way to use this pattern with a full form >rather than just a sectional. I don't see why not. Seems to me you'd need to try the pattern on the full form in order to make sure it actually fits and to be able to adjust things if it doesn't. Then go to it! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 23:34:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:01:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: NG Re: Get a life Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:49:03 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr13.3493.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/12/99 8:31:46 PM, belliveau-gerald@email.msn.com wrote: >Thought this was just for items pertaining to glass and hoppies Oh, a geek list, huh? Not this one! Now play nice, or we'll do any or all of the following: Sic' Elisabeth's Toby (who, although he's rumored to have a taste for "Irish butt," is omnivorous like most canine critters and would hardly turn down a nice Amurrican burger) on you (on second thought, never mind, we wouldn't want to poison him.........) Send a you a "singing telegram" at the office - Patrick (occasionally known as "Irish butt") in his sparkly blue glass tutu, QVC Princess Diana Tiara, and with freshly waxed legs and gleaming pate (you'll know him by the wafting aroma of "eau de Kem-O-Pro" or is that Kem-O-Preau?), will sing and dance to "Walking on Broken Glass" for you until you cough up a bio (of which he has to post two every weekend lest he become a snack for the aforementioned Toby) Call down "Jethro MacGregor the Gnomonator" in his great kilt (with either rope belt or one suspender as the mood moves), with his black-rooted red-henna beard bristling and the rest of his face painted blue a la "Braveheart," roarin' curses in Scots Gaelic with a southern twang and brandishing his Mighty Claymore in one hand and his huntin' rifle full o' buckshot in the other.......... maybe we can even get him to toss a caber or two in your general direction =8-O Y'see, we *have* a life (most of us do, anyway). Stick around, it could happen to you too! And if you're *really* nice, I just might dust off the old cauldron, dig into my precious supply of eye of newt, and go rummaging through my extensive library of arcana to find that rarely-used spell for turning a toad back into a human! Dr. Sparks, Witch Doctor, retreating into my gingerbread house, knowing I'm gonna regret this tomorrow, but what the hey........... p.s. What's a hoppy? p.p.s. I think that's only 4 from me today. Feel better? p.p.p.s. If you do have something glass-related to say, post away! Chances are very good you'll actually get a serious answer! (In fact, it works *way* better than pitching a hissy if you want to get us back on topic.) p.p.p.p.s. to all my bungi-budz out there - thank yew fer yer support! :-) We now return to our regularly scheduled program already in progress...... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 23:36:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:01:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Tiffany Exhibit Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:55:35 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr13.35535.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks for the Tiffany alert! A "Lamps of Tiffany" exhibit is coming to the Delaware Art Museum (which also has a permanent exhibit of Pre-Raphaelite art that I didn't see because I was too busy lusting after the Chihuly baskets) early this summer too. Gotta catch this one too! Sparks p.s. haven't forgotten the promised "review" of the Baskets exhibit...... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 23:48:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:38:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ghostman.com!candy From: "Candy Thurman" To: "glass@bungi.com" , "Glenna Rand" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Back From Vegas Date: Mon, 12 Apr 99 21:35:45 Message-ID: <199904130436.WAA16746@mantis.privatei.com> Precedence: bulk >I didn't win the gallery of excellence but was told buy the manager I only lost by 2 votes. That made me pretty good. I've only been at this 4 yrs. The winners had been doing this for many years. One was even a teacher. Glenna, what'd you put in the gallery? Is it posted somewhere where we can see it? Candy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 23:51:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:11:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: "Candy Thurman" , Subject: Re: Back From Vegas Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:10:46 PDT Message-ID: Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "Re: Back From Vegas" on Apr 12, 21:35, "Candy Thurman" writes:] > >I didn't win the gallery of excellence but was told buy the manager > I only lost by 2 votes. That made me pretty good. I've only > been at this 4 yrs. The winners had been doing this for many years. > One was even a teacher. > > Glenna, what'd you put in the gallery? Is it posted somewhere where we can see it? I have one of my entries on my webpage at http://www.bungi.com/glass/glenna/index.html "Keeping an Eye on Your Money" My Techno-tude isn't up yet,...I'm trying to get Dave on it.. -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 12 23:56:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:05:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Michele Spruill" Subject: Re: Mail and Message Quantities Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:04:59 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr12.16459.0> Precedence: bulk Michele writes, in part: >>I'm mostly a lurker here to soak up all the good information I get from reading your posts. I finally can't stand to sit this one out!<< OK, so you're out of the closet! How about a bio? You can start out with name, rank and service number. It would also be nice to know what you do in the glass area. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 04:57:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 03:24:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'Bud Britt'" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: First surface mirror's Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 06:25:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.22541.0> Precedence: bulk Around here the shops sell it for about $12 for a 8" x 12" sheet so I usually figure $1/inch for a length suitable for a scope. I have also seen it in the American Science and Surplus catalog. They are on line but I would recommend the local shop even if they ahve to order it. LInda -----Original Message----- From: Bud Britt [SMTP:computerministry@unitytustin.org] Sent: Monday, April 12, 1999 5:37 PM To: Bungi Subject: First surface mirror's Does anyone know where one might buy decent priced first surface mirror's? I have heard that this is the kind that you want to use if you are going to make kaleidoscopes. I found some in the Edmund catalog, only they want $12.50 for a 50mm x 50mm piece. That seems a little high for that small of a piece of glass. Be a pretty short scope also. Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 06:27:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 04:57:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Ranking of glass manufacturer's product lines Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:54:05 +0000 Message-ID: <199904131155.LAA09262@saturn> Precedence: bulk .....not entirely correct, PJ, >From what I understand through an interview broadcast on a radio programme I listened to recently, there were at least 3 of the old Hartley Wood staff who had joined the set-up at Sunderland Glass Centre and they had taken on some apprentices to train up. I wouldn't perhaps expect the FIRST new batch to turn out like the stuff we know, but I live in hope. Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK PJ wrote: > Hartley wood laid off all its workers and closed the factory. > There was such a clamor that people wanted the glass that they reopened the > factory. The older workers who were the masters behind the glass decided > that they rather liked retirement and when asked to come back declined. > So its all new people doing the work. From what I heard....not anything > near the old Hartley Wood. What a pity. > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 06:54:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 05:46:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Patina-ing lead? was Re: Memory is failing Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:45:59 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr13.124559.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/13/99 1:11:06 AM, Classydad@aol.com wrote: >I forget, on a leaded panel, is it: > >A: Solder, patina, cement, polish; > >or, B: Solder, cement, patina, then polish? Uhhhhhhh...... the hard-core "lead-o-philes" will know for sure, but I thought it was solder, putty, whiting. The whiting does "dual duty" by setting up the putty and serving as a fine-grained polishing agent. And from what I've seen, the process of cementing a window does a pretty good job of dulling the surface of new lead. Don't know why you'd want to patina lead unless you're doing a repair on something with odd-colored existing lead and trying to match it. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 07:20:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 05:47:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Back From Vegas Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:46:07 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr13.12467.0> Precedence: bulk Also sprach Glenna, our faithful and devoted listmomma: >I didn't win the gallery of excellence but was told by the manager >I only lost by 2 votes. Congradjitations! I like your use of found stuff. I'm collecting up a bunch of "stuff" too; one o' these ole daze I'll go out and mess with it and see what I can come up with. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 07:25:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 05:50:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Get a life Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:47:53 +0000 Message-ID: <199904131249.MAA12604@saturn> Precedence: bulk Hi all, You got it Bob! Just love Sparks' "saucy" comments and observations! I don't care how many if she posts 9 or 90 messages a day. Gee, there is me occasionally feeling GUILTY, cause if I'm pressed for time, I try and cram several replies into ONE message, which I think can some times be confusing. Take no notice Sparks, but thanks for your great and fun reply. It certainly made me chuckle on an April day full of rain, hailstorms and snow. Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK > >>I wonder if he has any idea how much furor his disdainful comments > have evoked. Probably not, since I suspect he shot his wad, so to > speak, and won't be back again.<< > > Albert<< > Bob replied: > Look at it this way Albert: Spark's friends are coming out of the wood > work. If I were Sparks I would consider a repost every time I needed > cheering up. > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 07:42:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 05:50:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Memory is failing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:47:53 +0000 Message-ID: <199904131249.MAA12607@saturn> Precedence: bulk Hi Classydad 'n all, Simple solution: c: solder, cement, polish (why patina?!! - Use grate polish). Which reminds me, Christie... haven't forgotten! Roll on August! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Classydad wrote: > I forget, on a leaded panel, is it: > > A: Solder, patina, cement, polish; > > or, B: Solder, cement, patina, then polish? > > Thanks. > ---- ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 07:55:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 06:06:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Get a life Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:49:28 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.14928.0> References: <<1999Apr12.5525.0@[207.126.97.2]>> Organization: SBWSA Precedence: bulk Yes this is a list for glass and hoppies. Hop you have a nice. day. Carol T Gerry Belliveaau wrote: ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 08:29:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:06:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: NG Re: Get a life Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:06:33 -0700 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk >Sparks has said; > p.p.p.s. If you do have something glass-related to say, > post away! Chances are very good you'll actually get a > serious answer! (In fact, it works *way* better than > pitching a hissy if you want to get us back on topic.) > That certainly comes from a good heart and how very true!!! Sometimes when things get slow (glass wise) some folks still wanna talk. I for one don't mind it at all. It makes life interesting and enjoyable. Cindy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 08:57:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:14:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Michele Spruill" , Subject: Re: Mail and Message Quantities Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:01:45 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.0145.0> Precedence: bulk Yeah I do the same thing, got lets see, 5 different addresses setup just for the purpose of getting email. Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: Michele Spruill To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 10:07 PM Subject: Mail and Message Quantities |Greetings everyone! | |I'm mostly a lurker here to soak up all the good information I get |from reading your posts. I finally can't stand to sit this one out! | |If you notice I have a hotmail address. I opted to subscribe to this |list separate from my family's mail so I don't clog the home e-mail. |There are tons of free e-mail services out there! I also appreciate |the posts being separated by subject matter as I search out subject |matters as I read the mail. | |Hope this idea helps anyone worried about their mail volume... | |Michele | |_______________________________________________________________ |Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 09:28:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:22:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: full lamp forms Date: Tue Apr 13 07:21:47 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.45947.0> Organization: Taylor'd Expressions Precedence: bulk just make sure that they are both globe or cone....globe pattern will not fit cone form and vice versa thanx debbie jo taylor kleeman@one.net www.taylordexpressions.com your complete stained glass supply source 1-888-488-9616 On Monday, April 12, 1999 11:49 PM, Witchdoc3@aol.com [SMTP:Witchdoc3@aol.com] wrote: > > In a message dated 4/12/99 12:40:11 PM, seguinr@post.queensu.ca wrote: > > >I'm wondering if there is some way to use this pattern with a full form > >rather than just a sectional. > > I don't see why not. Seems to me you'd need to try the pattern on the full > > form in order to make sure it actually fits and to be able to adjust > things > if it doesn't. Then go to it! > > > Sparks > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 09:30:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:28:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: soltec.net!tamis From: "Tami Siddens" To: Subject: Back from Vegas Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:22:49 -0000 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.92249.0> Precedence: bulk Glenna - congratulations! I love your "Keeping An Eye On Your Money" piece. I had seen it before when I visited your site. Great colors, and a thought-provoking design. Tami ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 09:55:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:18:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: NG Get a life Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:14:04 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <199904131516.KAA22813@relay.acns.nwu.edu> Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk >>Call down "Jethro MacGregor the Gnomonator"<< Oh Sparks! Good thing I was alone in the office when I read this one! Had anyone been here they'd be putting me on the bus with the wire windows (ROFLMAO is not consistent with my professional "image"). Kaye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 10:17:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:46:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: email.msn.com!EastGateXX From: "EastGateXX@msn.com" To: "Bungi" Subject: Re: Glass Craft Expo '99 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:32:38 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.13238.0> Precedence: bulk Bob, Thanks for your impressions of LV show. I had wanted to go, and found I couldn't. I'm glad to hear what I missed and appreciate your concise and erudite assessment. I was thinking about Long Beach, and am now sure I'll make it - since I'm sure I'd see and learn a lot. -----Original Message----- From: Bob E Duchesneau To: Shirley's List ; Bungi Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 10:20 PM Subject: Glass Craft Expo '99 >I attended Glass Craft Expo '99 in Las Vegas on Saturday, April 10, >1999. Here are my impressions. Please remember that these are just my >thoughts. > >The Expo was divided into two parts composed of workshops for fee and >an exhibit hall. I did not attend any workshops but observed that they >appeared to be well attended and students on break were enthusiastic. > >The exhibit area had about 100 exhibits ranging from small studios to >major stained glass manafactures. Many would call the number of >exhibitors small but there was plenty to see. Unfortunately my >suppliers were mostly absent and no doubt will show up at the large >show in Long Beach in June. > >Perhaps 50% of the exhibitors featured or at least had some dichroic >glass. Not being a jewelry maker or torch worker I personaly find >little use for this interesting glass. > >There were a dozen or more exhibits of stepping stones and the >cement(?) used to make them. Again this is not my area of interest but >anyone working in this area would have been well rewarded. There was a >very nice garden bench that I considered buying but chickened out >because I could make one for about 10% of the price. Now there is a >hint! > >There were about fifteen wholesalers of tools and the like. Try as I >might I did not see anything that was new or unavailable to me. For >someone new to stained glass this would have been a gold mine. > >There were very few actual stained glass or sandblasted pieces. Only >one drew my attention for long. This was a very finely cut panel at >the Spectrum Glass booth that Jim Matthews explained was grouted. It >stopped several people while I chatted fusing with Jim. He was very >high on Spectrum 100SFS which is a new devitrification resistant clear >glass ment for fusing over other Spectrum glass. I will try this just >as soon as it becomes available to me. > >My beveling equipment and design software suppliers both had booths >but must have stepped out when they saw me coming. Too bad, I had some >good things to say. > >I was looking to see what might be the wave of the future. Sorry, if I >saw it, I did not know it. All in all this was a nice show that could >be done in half a day or less. > >Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 >Think glass: have class. > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 10:29:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:04:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Julie Sloan's book Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:38:23 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <199904131440.JAA21310@relay.acns.nwu.edu> Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk ...>>Julie Sloan's book, "Conservation of Stained Glass in America", there is = a marvelous example on page 86. The caption underneath reads, "Pieces cut with deep inside curves are very likely to break as the window settles."<< I've had a copy on order at Amazon for six weeks. They said it usually ships in 4-6 weeks but may not be available at all. Tried a search on a used book locator, but no hits. Anybody know a source? Kaye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 10:53:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:10:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net To: Classydad@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Memory is failing Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:09:50 -0700 Message-ID: <199904131609.JAA26665@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >I forget, on a leaded panel, is it: > >A: Solder, patina, cement, polish; > >or, B: Solder, cement, patina, then polish? B wins the prize behind door #1! Although in reality patinaing is not necessary...lots of polishing with a natural bristle brush brings out a lovely deep pewterish burnished color on the lead. C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 12:01:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:24:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Chihuly in Va! Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:25:06 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.9256.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Sparks, How are you, I am fine....{enough for personal} Chihuly Exhibit is coming to Va Beach this weekend for a month...they have a web site if anyone is interested....I think KSEE posted the address but here goes again...It's really nice...www.artofglass.org.....his associates will be there through part of the summer ,I believe. Did I read somewhere that parts of his work and other artist work may be done by associates? Take care, Abbie in VA. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 12:26:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:39:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Carol Tombro Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Get a life Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:35:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.93523.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Carol Tombro >glass and hoppies.< What the heck are hoppies????? Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 12:33:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:40:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:Classydad@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Memory is failing Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:35:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.93510.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:Classydad@aol.com >A: Solder, patina, cement, polish; < On a leaded panel, you solder then cement. Period. There is no patina o= r polish as that is accomplished as an inherent part of the cementing process. Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 12:47:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:48:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'Kaye Sodt'" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Julie Sloan's book Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:51:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.95131.0> Precedence: bulk Barnesandnoble.com say they have more books in stock that amazon. Linda -----Original Message----- From: Kaye Sodt [SMTP:kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 11:38 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Julie Sloan's book ...>>Julie Sloan's book, "Conservation of Stained Glass in America", there is = a marvelous example on page 86. The caption underneath reads, "Pieces cut with deep inside curves are very likely to break as the window settles."<< I've had a copy on order at Amazon for six weeks. They said it usually ships in 4-6 weeks but may not be available at all. Tried a search on a used book locator, but no hits. Anybody know a source? Kaye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 13:03:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:54:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: have to bag it Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:35:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.93512.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com > >P.S. Sparks, what're you doing dl'ing tax software NOW, three days = >before the deadline? < You're still way ahead of me, gal! = Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 13:07:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:05:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: glass@bungi.com, "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Art: High Low and The Simpsons Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:43:54 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.34354.0> References: <<051101be85a8$ae3d3780$29abdacd@kindred>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk > HhahHAHAAHAHAhahhahaaaa! > I LOVE it!!!! I wonder how much trouble I'd get in for hawking Mr. Hankey > suncatchers at the festival?!?! It's a GREAT idea! > I love the Simpsons, but hardly ever catch them anymore. And I don't even > answer my phone if Southpark is on!! > > 'NO KITTY! This is MY pot pie!!!!' > > Blake > :-) oh my husband just thinks South Park is the sickest thing he ever saw..the first episode I ever watched was the one where they were going to have a bris for the jewish kids little brother and the boys kidnapped him and sent him to Nebraska so they wouldnt "cut off his wee wee" as they thought was going to happen...given my relatives are all Jewish, I was HOWLING....cant say I manage to catch every episode, I always forget that its going to be on but the ones I have seen are funny funny funny.... Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 14:04:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:45:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Get a life Date: Tue Apr 13 12:44:29 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.102229.0> Precedence: bulk Hobbies for rabbits?? -----Original Message----- From: Dani Greer [mailto:GreerStudios@compuserve.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 1:35 PM To: Carol Tombro Subject: Re: Get a life Message text written by Carol Tombro >glass and hoppies.< What the heck are hoppies????? Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 14:37:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:21:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: have to bag it Date: Tue Apr 13 13:20:05 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.10585.0> Organization: Taylor'd Expressions Precedence: bulk this is when i can honestly say the $75 to the accountant is worth it! i paid $200 around christmas for the peachtree accounting package, printed it all out, took it to the account, paid him $75....all done well worth every penny haven't tried the other accounting packages, but i really like peachtree debbie debbie jo taylor kleeman@one.net http://www.taylordexpressions.com your complete stained glass supply source 1-888-488-9616 On Tuesday, April 13, 1999 1:35 PM, Dani Greer [SMTP:GreerStudios@compuserve.com] wrote: > Message text written by INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com > > > >P.S. Sparks, what're you doing dl'ing tax software NOW, three days = > > >before the deadline? > < > You're still way ahead of me, gal! = > > > Best, > > Dani Greer > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 15:05:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:04:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: citynet.net!khupp From: Kathy To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: L shaped cuts Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:01:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.12157.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all, I got the book Windwatchers and rushed through and made my first weathervane. I cut it Saturday, foiled it Sunday, soldered it Monday, and today I got it up in the yard. A beautiful rooster. Works great. Everyone wants one. And today, the L shaped leg broke. I knew that pattern was designed with a saw in mind. You could just tell by some of the cuts. I managed to cut and grind mine out. And I knew better. No more crazy shapes for me. Thank goodness that was the only dumb cut I made. My husband noticed I had changed others and thought I should not have. I told him they were impossible cuts and I no longer ever have the desire to own a bandsaw. (When I first started I REALLY wanted one.) I'm over it now. Mostly thanks to Bungian warnings. This is going to stay in my yard, so I'll just live with it. But boy are they hard to attach to the hardware. Makes me not so anxious to build another, but I know I will. They really are nice. Happy glassing! Kathy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 15:07:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:04:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!Blusdog From: "FRANK STEELE" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: glass kilns Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:17:27 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.31727.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BE858E.72C64800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I recently took a glass fusing class from Dan Fenton, and are looking = into purchasing a kiln. If anyone has a suggestion or information that = could help in making a good decision I would greatly appreciate the = advice.=20 Thank you=20 Tammy Steele ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BE858E.72C64800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I recently took a glass fusing class from Dan Fenton, and are = looking=20 into purchasing a kiln.  If anyone has a suggestion or information = that=20 could help in making a good decision I would greatly appreciate the=20 advice. 
 
Thank you
Tammy Steele
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BE858E.72C64800-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 15:31:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:46:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Julie Sloan's book Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:35:22 +0000 Message-ID: <199904132027.QAA22116@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Barnesandnoble.com say they have more books in stock that amazon. Well, let me put on my Art in Architecture Press hat ... Barnes & Noble can just say anything they want now, can't they? In point of fact, from our experience with both Amazon and Barnes & Noble: 1. Neither one stocks Julie Sloan's book; they order to fill orders. 2. Amazon orders 10-15 copies a month in quantities of 1-3. 3. BarnesandNoble.com has *never placed an order. 4. Barnes & Noble brick-and-mortar stores have ordered it, but 5. Barnes & Noble's accounting department's a *wreck! 6. Amazon.com's accounting department is A-okay. >From here, BarnesAndNoble.com can brag all they want, but it's just words, not actions. My 2c worth. Albert Art in Architecture Press, Inc. 54 Cherry Street, North Adams MA 01247 (413) 663-5512 Fax: (413) 663-7167 http://www.aiap.com/ [Home Page] http://www.aiap.com/amazon/ [2700+ Glass Books!] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 15:32:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:24:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ipa.net!gecko From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: re: Get a Life Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:23:10 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990413162310.0069e448@popd.ipa.net> Precedence: bulk I am culturally EMBARRASSED that my fellow bungians didn't realize that he was indeed referring to the 'Hoppy Indians'; A proud and noble people that occupied this great land (the Americas) before the white folk came and behaved quite badly. Unfortunately Garry, this is not a mailing list for Hoppy crafting. Perhaps you could find that in the Onelist menu. ....err... uhmmmm.. wait a minute... this just in.... OH!! Thats HOPIE Indian........ Well that's very different. Never mind! Blake (please, forgive me my digression!) :-) At , you wrote: >Hobbies for rabbits?? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dani Greer [mailto:GreerStudios@compuserve.com] > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 1:35 PM > To: Carol Tombro > Subject: Re: Get a life > > Message text written by Carol Tombro > >glass and hoppies.< > > What the heck are hoppies????? > > Best, > > Dani Greer > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: >glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 15:58:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:25:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!HiimLaura From: HiimLaura@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: re: Get a Life Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:22:12 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr13.212212.0> Precedence: bulk Dani Greer wrote: [[What the heck are hoppies????? Best, Dani Greer]] I think that's what they use to make that beer that guy's been drinking HiimLaura ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 16:04:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:39:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: What are hoppies? was RE: Get a life Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:37:19 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr13.213719.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/13/99 4:05:05 PM, daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@aol.com wrote: >Hobbies for rabbits?? Nervous hippies? Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 16:19:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:18:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: Mosfunland@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: not glass/hoppie though Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:17:29 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr13.211729.0> Precedence: bulk Hoppies are: what you might sprinkle in your best stew.... what your feet do on hot sand, what the brewmaster adds after a few too many samples, what that hot solder does when it drips, what makes you sleepy in the late afternoon....ooops thats poppies... Maureen..... who all too well remembers the hoppies of the late sixties, and early 70s..... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 16:30:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:47:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Finding Julie Sloan's book Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:45:01 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <199904132147.QAA22813@relay.acns.nwu.edu> Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk Thanks to all for your assistance. Mission accomplished! Kaye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 16:41:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:53:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ppp04.math.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Tiffany's lamp exhibit Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:49:12 -0400 Message-ID: <199904132249.SAA01319@ppp04.math.uwaterloo.ca> Precedence: bulk Following Sparks comment, I searched on the Net. Here is what I got: Delaware Art Museum i 2301 Kentmere Pkwy Wilmington DE 1-302-571-9590 The Lamps of Tiffany: Highlights from the Egon And Hildegard Neustadt Collection Oct. 8 through Jan. 2 -- Daniel M. German http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 17:04:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:16:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stainedglassartists.com!Pam From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: New Web Addy for The Artist Site Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:14:05 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.8145.0> Organization: Stained Glass Artists/MML Precedence: bulk Hi All, For all the bungians who visit The Stained Glass Artist site, we've moved. Our new addy is: http://www.stainedglassartists.com/ The old addy will still work you will just be redirected automatically. See ya, Pam -- ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://www.stainedglassartists.com/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 17:14:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:39:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Memory is failing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:36:40 +0000 Message-ID: <199904132238.WAA15881@saturn> Precedence: bulk Hi Classydad 'n all, What is grate polish....? Well, in them good ole' days folks did not have gas or electricity to cook their food... they used old fashioned cast iron stoves wherein they burned anything from coal, logs, old boots, mattresses to provide the cooking of their food. The cast iron stove was therefore a very important feature of every household, cottage, croft and mansion. The Stove needed looking after, maintaining, cleaning and polishing. Some of these old cooking stoves had polished brass features. But on the whole, the important thing was to keep the rust at bay, making it look nice, black, clean and sparkling. Enter the grate polish. In Europe it has many names and probably as many ingredients. I have come across it in the deepest corners of Eastern Europe as well as in South of France, Belgium, Austria and Germany. I once earned my board and lodgings as a student in Germany working night shifts at a catholic Old Peoples' Home near Bonn. The basement of this home was taken up by this gigantic kitchen, totally monopolized by this ginormous cast iron cooking stove. One of my duties was to clean it and polish it every evening to a shine and sparkle to pass muster of the Chief Chef when she arrived at 7 am in the morning to start delegating the cooking of breakfast. ...,.And by God.... if that stove was not black, shining and sparkling enough...... I sweated blood!! That was my introduction to stove/grate polish. On training in stained glass in London at Goddards and Gibbs with the old trembly boys, relics from the Victorian era, they too introduced me to the English version of the "grate polish". If you look through the Bungi archives of yesteryear, you will find me waxing lyrical about "Zebrite/Zebo". That is what "traditional" stained glass folks Across the Pond use for polishing, gleaming, blackening the lead, making the solder joints "melt" into the lead visually, cleaning the glass. It's messy stuff, comes in a tube. Goodness knows what it consists of, but it's traditional for cast iron and lead and works a treat. I said at the time of my original posting, that I was quite sure that you Over There (in USA) must surely have an equivalent old-fashioned stove polish that lead-workers traditionally use. I AM bringing some samples with me. As it stands.....I am going to need some strong arm and argumentative soul to bribe/kill/tempt/corrupt the US Customs and Excise folks when I arrive with my already long "wish-list" from you folks. Any offers???? Roll on August!!!! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Keith wrote: > In a message dated 4/13/99 9:43:41 AM Central Daylight Time, > toby@northlights.co.uk writes: > > << (why patina?!! - Use grate polish) >> > > Haven't heard of grate polish back here in the U.S. What is it? > > I just want all the lead came and solder to be as black as possible to accent > the bevel and glass pieces, not distract from them. Only way I knew to do it > was use black patina prior to polishing.> ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 17:41:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:42:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Kathy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: L shaped cuts Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:40:13 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.144013.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Kathy >I knew that pattern was designed with a saw in mind.< Doesn't matter if you use a saw or not... they'll still stress fracture eventually. And I imagine a lot sooner than = later on a weather vane!! Good grief. Better you found out now, than after you sold a bunch of them... I swear some folks are drummin' up repair business on purpose! Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 17:43:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:46:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ppp04.math.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Do you want less bungi messages? Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:42:20 -0400 Message-ID: <199904132342.TAA01762@ppp04.math.uwaterloo.ca> Precedence: bulk For some time I have being reading one or two messages a day with the collection of the messages posted during it ("digest" version of bungi). I configure this list to avoid to deal with every single message. Since the configuration is done already, and working, anybody who wants can try it. If you want to receive it, send a message to majordomo@csgrs6k1.uwaterloo.ca In the body of the message write: subscribe bungi-digest
where
is your email address. Messages are sent at 24:00, every day. Or more often if there are many postings. dmg -- Daniel M. German http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 18:02:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:51:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stmassociates.com!shigbee From: "Shari Higbee" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: have to bag it Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:55:20 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.105520.0> Precedence: bulk >this is when i can honestly say the $75 to the accountant is worth it! >i paid $200 around christmas for the peachtree accounting package, printed >it all out, took it to the account, paid him $75....all done >well worth every penny >haven't tried the other accounting packages, but i really like peachtree >debbie > ------------ Hubby just called to say he just picked up our taxes from the accountant (we're running a good day and a half ahead of our usual schedule!) and we owe a mere $9000 this year. After I started breathing again, I suggested he go back and politely ask the accountant to try again... Keep your fingers crossed. Otherwise, that's a lot of suncatchers and stepping stones I have to make and sell tomorrow... Anyone know anyone who'd like to pay in advance for a $9000 custom panel...? Shari ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 18:22:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:06:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Get a Life Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:59:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.145946.0> Precedence: bulk my ancestors are turning in their graves!!!!! Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: Blake, Wayne, & Susan To: glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 6:57 PM Subject: re: Get a Life >I am culturally EMBARRASSED that my fellow bungians didn't realize >that he was indeed referring to the 'Hoppy Indians'; A proud and noble >people that occupied this great land (the Americas) before the white folk >came and behaved quite badly. > >Unfortunately Garry, this is not a mailing list for Hoppy crafting. >Perhaps you could find that in the Onelist menu. > >....err... uhmmmm.. wait a minute... this just in.... >OH!! Thats HOPIE Indian........ >Well that's very different. >Never mind! > >Blake (please, forgive me my digression!) >:-) > > > >At , you wrote: >>Hobbies for rabbits?? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Dani Greer [mailto:GreerStudios@compuserve.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 1:35 PM >> To: Carol Tombro >> Subject: Re: Get a life >> >> Message text written by Carol Tombro >> >glass and hoppies.< >> >> What the heck are hoppies????? >> >> Best, >> >> Dani Greer >> ---- >> For subscription changes, please mail to: >>glass-request@bungi.com >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 19:18:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:49:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: amazed! ng:glass Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:49:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.154911.0> Precedence: bulk This group is too much.....Take care,Abbie in Va. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 21:28:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:49:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: amazed! ng:glass Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:49:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.154911.0> Precedence: bulk This group is too much.....Take care,Abbie in Va. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 21:44:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:01:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: re: Get a Life Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:00:02 -0700 Message-ID: <199904140000.RAA03436@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >Unfortunately Garry, this is not a mailing list for Hoppy crafting. >Perhaps you could find that in the Onelist menu. I just figured the guy was dyslexic and didn't know the difference between his p's and b's. hobbies??? C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 21:51:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:01:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" , Subject: Re: What are hoppies? was RE: Get a life Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:48:43 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.94843.0> Precedence: bulk Come on ya all, give the guy a break, I bet not one of us hasn't had FAT fingers once in a while,,, Well, perhaps we ought to,,, Nah, better stay out of that realm,,, Some of them voices said that he was poking fun at the hippies,,, Among other things,,, Made another box last night and this morning, a black iridescent with white wispy iridescent, with iridescent marbles in a six sided ring, ringing a yinyang symbol in the lid with the same kind of marbles for feet and patiana'ed copper. Looks pretty great to me, the girlfriend thinks that I ought to sell it in the bookstore. Told her that no one would pay for what time I got in it, that I am most likely making my Christmas presents early this year. Good to see that Sparks is Sparking again, and Again, and AGAIN !!! Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 04:17 PM Subject: What are hoppies? was RE: Get a life | |In a message dated 4/13/99 4:05:05 PM, daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@aol.com |wrote: | |>Hobbies for rabbits?? | |Nervous hippies? | | |Sparks | |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 21:55:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:11:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: infinet.com!glasscat From: Carolyn Noel To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Thank you!! Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:08:18 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.16818.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks, everyone, for the info on Rapid Set. Knew I could count on you! Thanks again, Carolyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 22:07:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:50:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: L shaped cuts Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:56:00 +0000 Message-ID: <199904140048.UAA27424@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > some folks are drummin' up repair business on purpose! You just copped to that? There're lots of studios that have 20-year plans. Some have 10-year and 5-year plans, the latter using "pure" solder, of course. A ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 22:09:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:57:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ghostman.com!candy From: "Candy Thurman" To: "glass@bungi.com" , "Glenna Rand" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Back From Vegas Date: Tue, 13 Apr 99 17:55:07 Message-ID: <199904140056.SAA24525@mantis.privatei.com> Precedence: bulk very interesting use of quarters! Candy On Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:10:46 PDT, Glenna Rand wrote: >http://www.bungi.com/glass/glenna/index.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 22:20:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:21:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ghostman.com!candy From: "Candy Thurman" To: "glass@bungi.com" , "Linda Campbell" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Julie Sloan's book Date: Tue, 13 Apr 99 18:19:46 Message-ID: <199904140120.TAA25692@mantis.privatei.com> Precedence: bulk On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:51:31 -0400, Linda Campbell wrote: >ulie Sloan's book, "Conservation of Stained Glass in America" Hey, guys, a lurker here ( ;-) ) got a suggestion and have already contacted a favorite site of mine for this book.. she'll contact either the list or me..... goto: www.whitehouse-books.com.... got some hard to find ,,, very neat books there.. and yes, they were GLASS.. Candy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 22:21:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:21:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: infinet.com!glasscat From: Carolyn Noel To: Dani Greer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: High art/low art Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:14:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.171430.0> References: <<1999Apr11.12569.0>> Precedence: bulk Me, too, Dani....ppffssst...hisssssssss. I'm momma to 35 of the little critters. Carolyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 22:22:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:48:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mindspring.com!pigznpawz From: "Jerri" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: L shaped cuts Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:17:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.171744.0> References: <<1999Apr13.144013.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi Dani, How L-shaped do you mean? I've pretty much always assumed that if I can cut it (by hand) then it won't stress fracture. Is this true? Would a rounded L shape stress fracture? Jerri > Message text written by Kathy > >I knew that > pattern was designed with a saw in mind.< > > Doesn't matter if you use a saw or not... they'll still stress > fracture eventually. And I imagine a lot sooner than = > > later on a weather vane!! Good grief. Better you found > out now, than after you sold a bunch of them... I swear > some folks are drummin' up repair business on purpose! > > Best, > > Dani Greer > Greer Gallery & Studios > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 22:33:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:23:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ghostman.com!candy From: "Candy Thurman" To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: L shaped cuts Date: Tue, 13 Apr 99 18:22:01 Message-ID: <199904140122.TAA25844@mantis.privatei.com> Precedence: bulk Geez if I keep commenting like this I'll have to give up my lurker status.. ANYway, I saw those neat 'windcatchers' and thought of the windstorms here at my house (2 days last week exceeded 100mph)(yes, the number is correct) and then there's the frequent hailstorms... guess they're for interior decoration for me... Candy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 22:33:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:27:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ghostman.com!candy From: "Candy Thurman" To: "glass@bungi.com" , "Toby" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Memory is failing Date: Tue, 13 Apr 99 18:24:40 Message-ID: <199904140125.TAA25933@mantis.privatei.com> Precedence: bulk Grate polish?? I want some!! How about going thru the mail? You can get it thru by stating that it's a 'gift'... Candy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 22:35:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:16:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: stove blacking Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:14:40 -0700 Message-ID: <199904140214.TAA04152@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk Goodness knows what it >consists of, but it's traditional for cast iron and lead and works a >treat. I said at the time of my original posting, that I was quite >sure that you Over There (in USA) must surely have an equivalent >old-fashioned stove polish that lead-workers traditionally use. I have a jar of stove blacking that I use on my woodstove to keep it nice and shiny (also stops it from rusting in the summer when the dog comes in covered with salt water and shakes in front of it). Bought it at my local hardware store...it's easy to find. Never thought about using it in stained glass though...would it replace black patina on copper foil work? all the elbow grease that produces a black patina on lead came? C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 22:46:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:22:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: "Christie A. Wood" , "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Help with soldering Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:23:02 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.16232.0> Precedence: bulk Well yes Christie et al, I do wax you all know how shaving your legs and bikini lines leave stubble. <> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 22:48:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:37:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: bs jones-- famous? Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:57:24 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.145724.0> Precedence: bulk I loved your glass. I had not been to the gallery in six months. I forgot about a lot of the projects and I hadn't seen others. It is nice to see the work of people who lurk and spark here. cj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 22:49:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:37:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig From: "Mike Figgy" To: "Bud Britt" , "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Desag Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:38:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.183820.0> References: <<1999Apr12.23711.0>> Precedence: bulk Just had Karsten Bartels, head of customer product management for DEutsche Spezialglas AG (hence Desag) visit with one of their distributors today. He confirms that they have closed their full antique (actually compressor blown rather than mouth blown antique) glass facility due to economics. The facility space was quite small and limiting and expansion didn't make sense given their output compared to their other products. Remember the Schott group is a company with revenues in excess of $6 billion. As an aside, they are now shipping a great red GNA, not a brownish one like the MNA version, (from St. Just) and are beginning to produce a teal (their antique # was 5109) Arnie's info is correct. Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2 (Tel:416-252-6868) Canada's first and yes, still its only officially sanctioned stained glass supplier. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bud Britt To: Bungi Sent: April 12, 1999 12:37 PM Subject: Fw: Desag > Everyone, Arnie has said that he will check on the DESAG glass for us. > > Sincerely, > Bud Britt > > computerministry@unitytustin.org > page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, > http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Arnie Bazensky > To: Bud Britt > Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 08:22 AM > Subject: Re: Desag > > > |Bud, > | > |I will contact my sources at Schott Corporation in new York, the > distributor > |of Dersag's product line. I will inform you when I have some interesting > |info! > | > |Thanks, > | > |Arn > |-----Original Message----- > |From: Bud Britt > |To: Arnie Bazensky ; Bungi > |Date: Friday, April 09, 1999 6:13 PM > |Subject: Desag > | > | > |>Hello Everyone, > |> > |>I just looked up some literature that Mr. Arnie Bazensky (West Coast > |Manager > |>of Schott Glass, Germany) gave me. On the back page, it reads DESAG with > |>their logo, and below it, "A Schott Group Company" > |> > |>The contact info is: > |> > |>Deutsche Spezialglass AG > |>P.O. Box 2032 > |>W-3223 Grunenplan > |>Germany > |> > |>Telephone (0 51 87) 7 71-530 > |>Telefax (0 51 87) 771547 > |>Telex 175187810 desag d > |>Teletex 5187810=DESAG > |> > |>I do not know if the mouthblown glass is still being made, although I am > |>sure that if you would like to contact Arnie directly, he would be able to > |>find out, and perhaps get a lead on some for you. > |> > |>Arnie Bazensky > |>E-mail Address(es): > |> ajb.sgt-west@worldnet.att.net > |> > |>Arnie, folks from the Bungi Stained Glass mailing list, might be asking > |>about the DESAG glass. > |> > |> > |>Sincerely, > |>Bud Britt > |> > |>computerministry@unitytustin.org > |>page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, > |>http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ > |> > |> > |> > | > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 22:58:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:46:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: iconn.net!tbyrnes From: Tim Byrnes To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Don McDonald Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:45:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.194548.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Folks, Does anyone know how I can get in touch with Don McDonald, the last address I had for him was [don@Chescom.net] Thank you in advance, Tim Byrnes ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 22:58:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:39:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" , Subject: Zebrite??? Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:26:47 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.132647.0> Precedence: bulk Hello Wendy, I am a member of a an email newsgroup called Bungi. It is for Stained Glass Artists. There is a group of persons looking for a product called "Zebrite", and I found it listed on your web site. At the following page, http://www.acrossthepondimports.com/prod02.htm Do you carry this product? And if you do, how much is it, and in what quantity's? Thank you for your time and effort in filling this request for information. Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 23:09:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:41:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Mike Figgy" , Subject: Re: Desag Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:29:10 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.132910.0> Precedence: bulk I also got a call from Arnie today, he confirms what you wrote. Also, he states that they are now making similar glass that is machine made (once again the economics). Will have a catalog for me in a couple of weeks. Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: Mike Figgy To: Bud Britt ; Bungi Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 07:26 PM Subject: Re: Desag |Just had Karsten Bartels, head of customer product management for DEutsche |Spezialglas AG (hence Desag) visit with one of their distributors today. He |confirms that they have closed their full antique (actually compressor blown |rather than mouth blown antique) glass facility due to economics. The |facility space was quite small and limiting and expansion didn't make sense |given their output compared to their other products. Remember the Schott |group is a company with revenues in excess of $6 billion. |As an aside, they are now shipping a great red GNA, not a brownish one like |the MNA version, (from St. Just) and are beginning to produce a teal (their |antique # was 5109) |Arnie's info is correct. |Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2 |(Tel:416-252-6868) |Canada's first and yes, still its only officially sanctioned stained glass |supplier. | |----- Original Message ----- |From: Bud Britt |To: Bungi |Sent: April 12, 1999 12:37 PM |Subject: Fw: Desag | | |> Everyone, Arnie has said that he will check on the DESAG glass for us. |> |> Sincerely, |> Bud Britt |> |> computerministry@unitytustin.org |> page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, |> http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ |> -----Original Message----- |> From: Arnie Bazensky |> To: Bud Britt |> Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 08:22 AM |> Subject: Re: Desag |> |> |> |Bud, |> | |> |I will contact my sources at Schott Corporation in new York, the |> distributor |> |of Dersag's product line. I will inform you when I have some interesting |> |info! |> | |> |Thanks, |> | |> |Arn |> |-----Original Message----- |> |From: Bud Britt |> |To: Arnie Bazensky ; Bungi | |> |Date: Friday, April 09, 1999 6:13 PM |> |Subject: Desag |> | |> | |> |>Hello Everyone, |> |> |> |>I just looked up some literature that Mr. Arnie Bazensky (West Coast |> |Manager |> |>of Schott Glass, Germany) gave me. On the back page, it reads DESAG with |> |>their logo, and below it, "A Schott Group Company" |> |> |> |>The contact info is: |> |> |> |>Deutsche Spezialglass AG |> |>P.O. Box 2032 |> |>W-3223 Grunenplan |> |>Germany |> |> |> |>Telephone (0 51 87) 7 71-530 |> |>Telefax (0 51 87) 771547 |> |>Telex 175187810 desag d |> |>Teletex 5187810=DESAG |> |> |> |>I do not know if the mouthblown glass is still being made, although I am |> |>sure that if you would like to contact Arnie directly, he would be able |to |> |>find out, and perhaps get a lead on some for you. |> |> |> |>Arnie Bazensky |> |>E-mail Address(es): |> |> ajb.sgt-west@worldnet.att.net |> |> |> |>Arnie, folks from the Bungi Stained Glass mailing list, might be asking |> |>about the DESAG glass. |> |> |> |> |> |>Sincerely, |> |>Bud Britt |> |> |> |>computerministry@unitytustin.org |> |>page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, |> |>http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ |> |> |> |> |> |> |> | |> |> |> ---- |> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass |> | ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 23:15:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:42:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Pamela Burns-Tappan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: New Web Addy for The Artist Site Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:39:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.193912.0> Precedence: bulk Nice new site, Pam.... good job! I also took the time to explore the link to The British Society of Master Glass Painters.... wow, was that ever a treat. And from there, I linked to the William Morris Museum site .... it was all too glorious. Everyone, you must take these little trips to England! http://www.stainedglassartists.com/ Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios P.S. Pam -- thanks for the nice link to our page, too. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 13 23:21:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:10:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: weather vanes was Re: L shaped cuts Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:17:49 -0700 Message-ID: <199904140217.TAA04857@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >Message text written by Kathy >>I knew that >pattern was designed with a saw in mind.< > >Doesn't matter if you use a saw or not... they'll still stress >fracture eventually. And I imagine a lot sooner than = > >later on a weather vane!! Good grief. Better you found >out now, than after you sold a bunch of them... I swear >some folks are drummin' up repair business on purpose! > There's one of these weather vanes in the Spring GPQ that just arrived the other day...it's a horse and its legs look pretty fragile. It's a smart looking gift item and may just need all its patterns redesigned for durability (or a tag saying for display/decorative purposes only). By the way, where does one buy the hardware for these? C Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 03:33:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 01:53:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: hotmail.com!winstonga From: "Winston Winston" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Fwd: weather vanes was Re: L shaped cuts Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 01:46:19 PDT Message-ID: <1999Apr14.84619.0> Precedence: bulk You can buy the hardware at Glass Crafters. It was on sale last month. I have almost finished making the horse weather vane and after reading all of the message traffic on L shaped cuts have started worrying about the L shaped glass in the pattern. Buck > >By the way, where does one buy the hardware for these? > >C > >Carol Swann >Synergy Glass & Creative >http://www.igga.org/synergy >seaspray@island.net > >check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: >http://come.to/The_E-Tour > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 06:59:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 04:52:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: stove blacking Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:47:34 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.134734.0> Precedence: bulk At 23:36 13/04/99 +0000, EliSabeth wrote: If you look through >the Bungi archives of yesteryear, you will find me waxing lyrical >about "Zebrite/Zebo". That is what "traditional" stained glass folks >Across the Pond use for polishing, gleaming, blackening the lead, >making the solder joints "melt" into the lead visually, cleaning the >glass. It's messy stuff, comes in a tube. We have switched our allegiance from Zebo to Stovax. Same kind of stuff but cleans up easier, with much less residue left to come off on your hands when handling a newly completed lead panel. EliZabeth and Sam in Bournemouth ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 07:31:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 05:28:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Fwd: weather vanes was Re: L shaped cuts Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:32:22 +0000 Message-ID: <199904141224.IAA04820@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > You can buy the hardware at Glass Crafters. It was on sale last > month. I have almost finished making the horse weather vane and > after reading all of the message traffic on L shaped cuts have > started worrying about the L shaped glass in the pattern. Shoot! Now I feel bad, even though it's true that certain shapes are inimical to glass, given its properties. I didn't mean to keep you up worrying! Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 08:02:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 05:28:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Albert taken to task Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:32:23 +0000 Message-ID: <199904141224.IAA04812@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk HelIo, bungians! received a message this morning berating me for my language (presumedly "bad") and attitude (ditto) in my recent comments regarding the phantom poster who chided Sparks for posting more than one message day. Which words those were, exactly, wasn't spelled out, but I assume that "female dog" used as a euphemism for "complain" might have been one of them; "curmudgeon" might have been another. Dunno. Wasn't said. What *was said was that this complainant would never (as a result) join IGGA and her friends in glass would also be encouraged never to join. That's unfortunate, because I have a tendency to wake up in the middle of the night worrying about whether I've offended anyone (thanks, Mom!), but I was sleeping soundly on this one. Apparently this participant in bungi found my language offensive -- particularly given my high position as Executive Director of IGGA ... even though my unpaid job is to act as the Chief Clerk of the organization, keeping track of members (who move all the time, like most Americans ... well, a third of them, according to the Post Office, move every year). I also maintain the web site and get the newsletter/magazine out quarterly. If any one else was offended, my apologies. T'was meant in jest and should have been read in the same spirit. Also: my posts signed with merely my name are my personal comments; those signed as ExecDir are more "official," for whatever that's worth. Obviously, I'm a "better" ExecDir than individual person. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 08:36:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 06:08:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: vvm.com!ktjude From: judy novak To: seaspray@island.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Get a Life Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:08:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.388.0> References: <<199904140000.RAA03436@oceanus.island.net>> Organization: calumet farm and studios/glass & goodies Precedence: bulk I'm dyslexic and I know the difference between my pp's and my bb's! judy n seaspray@island.net wrote: > >Unfortunately Garry, this is not a mailing list for Hoppy crafting. > >Perhaps you could find that in the Onelist menu. > > I just figured the guy was dyslexic and didn't know the difference between > his p's and b's. hobbies??? > > C. > > Carol Swann > Synergy Glass & Creative > http://www.igga.org/synergy > seaspray@island.net > > check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: > http://come.to/The_E-Tour > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 08:41:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 06:11:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: vvm.com!ktjude From: judy novak To: seaspray@island.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: weather vanes was Re: L shaped cuts Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:15:07 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.3157.0> References: <<199904140217.TAA04857@oceanus.island.net>> Organization: calumet farm and studios/glass & goodies Precedence: bulk Carol, I got the hardware from D&L to carry in the store. But will use them for personal use I imagine. They are very expensive! And I would suggest having your local welder torch cut some from plate steel and enamel them black. That is what I plan to do for several. Yes, the brass is lovely but............ I hate to polish it - especially after paying that much for it! judy n seaspray@island.net wrote: > >Message text written by Kathy > >>I knew that > >pattern was designed with a saw in mind.< > > > >Doesn't matter if you use a saw or not... they'll still stress > >fracture eventually. And I imagine a lot sooner than = > > > >later on a weather vane!! Good grief. Better you found > >out now, than after you sold a bunch of them... I swear > >some folks are drummin' up repair business on purpose! > > > > There's one of these weather vanes in the Spring GPQ that just arrived the > other day...it's a horse and its legs look pretty fragile. It's a smart > looking gift item and may just need all its patterns redesigned for > durability (or a tag saying for display/decorative purposes only). > > By the way, where does one buy the hardware for these? > > C > > Carol Swann > Synergy Glass & Creative > http://www.igga.org/synergy > seaspray@island.net > > check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: > http://come.to/The_E-Tour > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 09:09:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 06:37:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: whitehouse-books.com!elizabeth From: Julia Whitehouse To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Conservation of Stained Glass Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:36:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.53620.0> Precedence: bulk Candy Thurman just sent me an email telling me that you are looking for the book Conservation of Stained Glass in Americ by Julie Sloan. The book is available in soft cover at $24.95 plus shipping. I can supply as many copies as you need. On an order of 10 or more I can offer a 20% discount. Please let me know how I can be of service. Sincerely, Julia Whitehouse-Books.com 90 West Market St. Corning NY 14830 607/936-8536 fax 936-2465 www.whitehouse-books.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 09:45:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:00:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: citynet.net!khupp From: Kathy To: seaspray@island.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: weather vanes was Re: L shaped cuts Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:57:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.55733.0> References: <<199904140217.TAA04857@oceanus.island.net>> Precedence: bulk > By the way, where does one buy the hardware for these? > > C > I got everything I needed at the local hardware store.Except for brazing rods. I picked them up at the automotive parts store. It's very basic supplies. Copper pipe in 3/4 & 1/2 inch sizes, a couple of fittings, a bolt and some brazing rod. Kathy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 09:49:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:15:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: L shaped cuts Date: Wed Apr 14 07:14:54 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.45254.0> Precedence: bulk candy i thought the same thing! we had a tornado friday morning that hit 650 homes and 100 businesses.... wonder how many went over the rainbow that day debbie taylor kleeman@one.net http://www.taylordexpressions.com your complete stained glass supply source 1-888-488-9616 -----Original Message----- From: Candy Thurman To: glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 1:42 AM Subject: Re: L shaped cuts >Geez if I keep commenting like this I'll have to give up my lurker status.. > >ANYway, I saw those neat 'windcatchers' and thought of the windstorms here at my >house (2 days last week exceeded 100mph)(yes, the number is correct) and then >there's the frequent hailstorms... > >guess they're for interior decoration for me... > >Candy > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 11:14:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:59:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: sff.net!steph From: Stephanie To: "Albert Lewis" ,glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Albert taken to task Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:45:15 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.54515.0> References: <<199904141224.IAA04812@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk I wouldn't worry about it, Albert, as you well know some people just have to be curmudgeonly and bitch about something. :-) Steph ~ Albert wrote: > received a message this morning berating me for my language >(presumedly "bad") and attitude (ditto) in my recent comments >regarding the phantom poster who chided Sparks for posting more than >one message day. > >Which words those were, exactly, wasn't spelled out, but I assume >that "female dog" used as a euphemism for "complain" might have been >one of them; "curmudgeon" might have been another. Dunno. Wasn't ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 11:41:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:10:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "Albert Lewis" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Albert taken to task Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:05:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.859.0> Precedence: bulk Good afternoon, Maybe we should explain that bungi.com has nothing to do with the International Guild of Glass Artists. Our presence here is because we all joined the mailing list. Nothing more. If anyone has issue with language or opinions to direct them at an entire organization is ludicrous. Neither myself as Chair, Dani as Treasurer, Christie as Vice Chair present ourselves here on behalf of the IGGA. We are here because we are glass artists first . If the person whom wrote the message is not interested in joining IGGA it would be their lose. And directing people whom might be interested away from IGGA all for one comment that was made seems to be a tad extreme. Our positions at IGGA are all volunteer . None of us gets anything but self satisfaction from the job we are undertaking trying to make the glass community more accessible to everyone. As with Albert my name signed with just pj and our studio url means that when I answer I am not answering on behalf of any organization. Or even my other half. Its a shame that things that are done in the spirit of jest......(which you know that if you work day to day in a studio in solitude it can relieve some of the pressure)...can be blown out of context by a few. It sound to me that this person has more issues than this one to behave in such a manner. (and that is a side personal comment. my best, PJ Friend Chair International Guild of Glass Artists Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis To: glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 11:37 AM Subject: Albert taken to task >HelIo, bungians! > > received a message this morning berating me for my language >(presumedly "bad") and attitude (ditto) in my recent comments >regarding the phantom poster who chided Sparks for posting more than >one message day. > >Which words those were, exactly, wasn't spelled out, but I assume >that "female dog" used as a euphemism for "complain" might have been >one of them; "curmudgeon" might have been another. Dunno. Wasn't >said. What *was said was that this complainant would never (as a >result) join IGGA and her friends in glass would also be encouraged >never to join. That's unfortunate, because I have a tendency to wake >up in the middle of the night worrying about whether I've offended >anyone (thanks, Mom!), but I was sleeping soundly on this one. > >Apparently this participant in bungi found my language offensive -- >particularly given my high position as Executive Director of IGGA ... >even though my unpaid job is to act as the Chief Clerk of the >organization, keeping track of members (who move all the time, like >most Americans ... well, a third of them, according to the Post >Office, move every year). I also maintain the web site and get the >newsletter/magazine out quarterly. > >If any one else was offended, my apologies. T'was meant in jest and >should have been read in the same spirit. Also: my posts signed with >merely my name are my personal comments; those signed as ExecDir are >more "official," for whatever that's worth. Obviously, I'm a >"better" ExecDir than individual person. > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 11:46:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:24:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Albert taken to task Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:47:25 -0700 Message-ID: <199904141547.IAA16351@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >HelIo, bungians! > > received a message this morning berating me for my language >(presumedly "bad") and attitude (ditto) in my recent comments >regarding the phantom poster who chided Sparks for posting more than >one message day. > >Which words those were, exactly, wasn't spelled out, but I assume >that "female dog" used as a euphemism for "complain" might have been >one of them; "curmudgeon" might have been another. Dunno. Wasn't >said. What *was said was that this complainant would never (as a Well Albert...gotta say I haven't seen you post anything offensive about the phantom poster...you were merely giving your opinion. Gotta say that if anyone was offended they must be living in some kind of rarified environment, and that they've certainly never been in a blue collar working environment! I'm sure they'd blanch and keel over in a fit of the vapours there. I also think it's just another example of this PC (politically correct) b*ll sh*% going too far! It's too bad though that they have extrapolated their displeasure with you to include IGGA...too bad they can't seem to separate an organization from an individual. There's actually a lot of good people and good info there...even if we do get "uppity" once in a while. C. (another curmudgeon ducking) Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 12:45:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:41:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Do you want less bungi messages? Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:38:45 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr14.173845.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/13/99 8:44:11 PM, dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca wrote: >For some time I have being reading one or two messages a day with the >collection of the messages posted during it ("digest" version of >bungi). I configure this list to avoid to deal with every single >message. [...] I hereby nominate our barefoot boy for "Official Patron Saint of Lurkers" (and of us other folks who sometimes can't seem to get anything done because we're forever checking for just *one* more message before we shut down..... I don't know anyone who does that, do you??????)! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 13:15:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:42:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: L shaped cuts Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:38:53 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr14.173853.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/14/99 1:23:26 AM, pigznpawz@mindspring.com wrote: > How L-shaped do you mean? I've pretty much always assumed that if I can >cut it (by hand) then it won't stress fracture. Is this true? I don't really know how the stresses from sawing compare to the stresses from regular cutting, but my own instinct would be to think the opposite, that a hand-cut piece might fracture more readily than an identical sawn piece because it's already been broken either by "trying to bend it," being jarred by tapping, or both. >Would a rounded L shape stress fracture? Yup, it would tend to, because the bend creates a fulcrum that focuses the pressure and directs it unevenly and inward or outward toward the ends instead of evenly along the length/width of the piece, and the more acute the bend, the less actual pressure it takes to create an unmanageable stress. Maybe somebody who's more up on mechanical engineering than I am could explain exactly how that works, but the main point I think the conventional cutting advocates are trying to make here is: If you need a saw to cut a shape successfully because of its curviness, *the stress vulnerability inherent in the shape itself* is likely to cause problems in the future. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 13:42:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:19:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Jerri" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: L shaped cuts Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:18:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.101828.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Jerri" > Would a rounded L shape stress fracture? < Not as easily, but remember, the deeper the inside curve, the more potential for fracture. Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 13:50:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:46:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Albert taken to task Date: Wed Apr 14 11:46:09 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.9249.0> Precedence: bulk Albert I'm ashamed of you. You should know the only acceptable obscenity on this list is "Oh Frit!!!!". Vic M. Executive Director for Nothing in Particular and Acceptable Curses. Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com PS Wouldn't worry about that person. Anyone who finds what you write offensive would be offended by anything. They probably never even looked at the mermaid site. -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis [mailto:alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 4:32 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Albert taken to task HelIo, bungians! received a message this morning berating me for my language (presumedly "bad") and attitude (ditto) in my recent comments regarding the phantom poster who chided Sparks for posting more than one message day. Which words those were, exactly, wasn't spelled out, but I assume that "female dog" used as a euphemism for "complain" might have been one of them; "curmudgeon" might have been another. Dunno. Wasn't said. What *was said was that this complainant would never (as a result) join IGGA and her friends in glass would also be encouraged never to join. That's unfortunate, because I have a tendency to wake up in the middle of the night worrying about whether I've offended anyone (thanks, Mom!), but I was sleeping soundly on this one. Apparently this participant in bungi found my language offensive -- particularly given my high position as Executive Director of IGGA ... even though my unpaid job is to act as the Chief Clerk of the organization, keeping track of members (who move all the time, like most Americans ... well, a third of them, according to the Post Office, move every year). I also maintain the web site and get the newsletter/magazine out quarterly. If any one else was offended, my apologies. T'was meant in jest and should have been read in the same spirit. Also: my posts signed with merely my name are my personal comments; those signed as ExecDir are more "official," for whatever that's worth. Obviously, I'm a "better" ExecDir than individual person. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 14:12:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:19:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Candy Thurman" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: L shaped cuts Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:18:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.101830.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Candy Thurman" > ANYway, I saw those neat 'windcatchers' and thought of the windstorms her= e at my = house (2 days last week exceeded 100mph)(yes, the number is correct) and then = there's the frequent hailstorms... < I had the same thoughts, Candy! I don't think Colorado is the place for glass weather vanes. Although I have to repeat that those weather vanes really are kinda neat looking. Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 14:21:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:20:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Mike Figgy" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Desag Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:18:35 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.101835.0> Precedence: bulk Sir Figgy is still with us! Thanks for sharing the info on Desag.... and especially the tidbits about full antique... compressor blown, huh? Now what do you know about Lambert's new facility and the Desag crew joining up? Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 14:27:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:20:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Albert Lewis" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Albert taken to task Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:18:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.101842.0> Precedence: bulk Albert, dear director, given what we pay you at IGGA (nothing), you have as much right to make personal comments on bungi as anyone else. For those of you who don't realize, the entire board of IGGA and the executive director donate their time to run the organization. The biggest jobs, of course, are the web site, the Common Ground: Glass magazine, and representing IGGA at various functions on the planet. Just for the record, Albert has as much class off-bungi as in print... he's no Nixon, so don't worry that he's a questionable representative of IGGA. Now, off to drum up more members for IGGA.... my personal goal is to double world membership in the next year! Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer Member International Guild of Glass Artists IGGA Board member and Treasurer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 14:48:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:20:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:seaspray@island.net" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: weather vanes was Re: L shaped cuts Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:18:37 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.101837.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:seaspray@island.net >By the way, where does one buy the hardware for these?< I think they come in kits that you buy from your supplier.... Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 14:55:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:20:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Jerri" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: L shaped cuts Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:18:25 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.101825.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Jerri" > How L-shaped do you mean? I've pretty much always assumed that if I can cut it (by hand) then it won't stress fracture.< Not so, Jerri.... even before *real machinery was invented, young glazier= s were trying to out-cut each other and could do some really amazing things! Th= ey were called Tour de Force cuts, show-off works, and they were just as likely to develop stress fractures as saw-cut pieces. It's important to understand the medium.... and ultimately, to respect it as much for its limitations = as for its abilities. Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 14:55:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:20:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:seaspray@island.net" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: stove blacking Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:18:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.101833.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:seaspray@island.net >Bought it at my local hardware store...it's easy to find.< Not in America... even the stuff they sell mail order at Cumberland General Store isn't the same as what E.'s talking about.... any ideas out there? I don't even want to try it unless I know I can get a steady supply of it.... and easily. Best, Dani Greer(from clousy Colorado - yuck!) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 15:02:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:49:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Hello... Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:41:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.104124.0> References: <<1999Apr13.124559.0>> Precedence: bulk I don't know if this is customary on this list but here goes... My name is Jeff Eckes. Some of you may know me from the work that I do in glass. I am the president of Giraffe Enterprises Inc, which does business in this industry as The Glass Giraffe ( a registered trademark). We (my wife and I) market a series of stained glass instructional videos, as well as the finishing chemical called 'giraffe joos', which I understand has been getting a bit of attention on this list of late. We also have a retail glass operation west of Asheville, NC where I also live. Some of you may have heard that the business and building are form sale...they are. We are moving back to NY in order for Karen to pursue her old career. I am also a torch artist, known for my unique marbles, beads and ornaments. I teach all over the country at times and will be doing the marble-making demo at GAS in Tampa this year, as well as a pre-conference marble class at Art Glass House the week before. Because of the move, my next class will be at Urban Glass in NY in November. As if that was not enough, some of you might recognize my name from the articles that I write for Glass Craftsman and Glass Patterns Quarterly magazines. I truly enjoy teaching people about glass of all kinds and I hope to be able to contribute to this list as much as possible. You will however begin to notice that I have VERY strong opinions about things and that I am NOT afraid to voice them, so some of you will like me and some will hate me I am sure. If you have a specific question for me or you need to contact me PLEASE do so directly to this email: glassgiraffe@earthlink.net I only get to read the list responses in my spare time (ha!) and sometimes don't get to do this for weeks at a time. Hope this gives you folks an idea of who I am. If you have any more questions, please feel free to ask. Peace! Jeff Eckes "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 15:26:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:25:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Candy Thurman" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: Julie Sloan's book Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:18:22 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.101822.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Candy Thurman" >goto: www.whitehouse-books.com.... < I think they are also still giving a portion of their proceeds to IGGA.... is that correct, Albert? And they do have = fabulous glass books and will do searches on out-of-prints. This would be one source for the ever-harder-to-find Elskus book on glass painting.... Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 15:29:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:59:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: erols.com!nadinesfolly From: Nadine Beth Schneider To: Julia Whitehouse , glass@bungi.com Subject: re: Conservation of Stained Glass Date: 14 Apr 99 14:59:56 -0500 Message-ID: <199904141857.OAA12618@smtp1.erols.com> Precedence: bulk I, for one, would be interested in buying a copy. How do we go about this? Nadine www.nadinesfolly.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 15:47:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:59:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Patina-ing lead? Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:51:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.105139.0> References: <<1999Apr13.124559.0>> Precedence: bulk We do this; Cement (not usually putty)-patina-whiting-let cure-clean-giraffe joos. Because the joos does not necessarily impart a shine, it works well for lead. We use the patina because we have found that we get a more even color that way, similar to using lamp black without the mess. Quite a few of our panels go into insulated units (we kind of specialize in that) so we need to be sure that these things are super clean as they will never again be touched by human hands. Jeff Eckes -----Original Message----- From: Witchdoc3@aol.com [mailto:Witchdoc3@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 8:46 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Patina-ing lead? was Re: Memory is failing In a message dated 4/13/99 1:11:06 AM, Classydad@aol.com wrote: >I forget, on a leaded panel, is it: > >A: Solder, patina, cement, polish; > >or, B: Solder, cement, patina, then polish? Uhhhhhhh...... the hard-core "lead-o-philes" will know for sure, but I thought it was solder, putty, whiting. The whiting does "dual duty" by setting up the putty and serving as a fine-grained polishing agent. And from what I've seen, the process of cementing a window does a pretty good job of dulling the surface of new lead. Don't know why you'd want to patina lead unless you're doing a repair on something with odd-colored existing lead and trying to match it. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 15:51:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:49:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:seaspray@island.net" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Albert taken to task Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:47:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.114746.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:seaspray@island.net > Gotta say that if anyone was offended they must be living in some kind of= rarified environment, and that they've certainly never been in a blue collar working environment! I'm sure they'd blanch and keel over in a fit of th= e vapours there. < I would like to take the opportunity to comment that one of the things I really appreciate about the bungi list these days is the *civility that w= e exhibit even in the heat of disagreement. Rarely is foul language = displayed, do I guess this is a rarified forum! And of course, there's the understanding that Glenna would boot us into the ozone if we did pollute.... Nevertheless, we prove every day, by choice and common understanding, that foul language is unnecessary to communicate effectively with one another. It's simply not required by relatively intelligent and educated human beings, right? = Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 16:12:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:09:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Do you want less bungi messages? Date: Wed Apr 14 13:08:23 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.104623.0> Precedence: bulk Sparks Just wondering if you are OK. This is only the second message I got from you today. Forget the wieners and complainers!!! Some of us need the entertainment. Vic M. Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com PS I'll second the nomination. -----Original Message----- From: Witchdoc3@aol.com [mailto:Witchdoc3@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 1:39 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Do you want less bungi messages? In a message dated 4/13/99 8:44:11 PM, dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca wrote: >For some time I have being reading one or two messages a day with the >collection of the messages posted during it ("digest" version of >bungi). I configure this list to avoid to deal with every single >message. [...] I hereby nominate our barefoot boy for "Official Patron Saint of Lurkers" (and of us other folks who sometimes can't seem to get anything done because we're forever checking for just *one* more message before we shut down..... I don't know anyone who does that, do you??????)! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 16:15:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:32:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig From: "Mike Figgy" To: "Dani Greer" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Desag Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:20:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.12209.0> References: <<199904141418_MC2-71ED-1984@compuserve.com>> Precedence: bulk If I told ya I'd have to kill ya... Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2 (Tel:416-252-6868) Canada's first and yes, still its only officially sanctioned stained glass supplier. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dani Greer To: Mike Figgy Cc: Bungi ; Bud Britt Sent: April 14, 1999 2:18 PM Subject: Re: Desag > Sir Figgy is still with us! Thanks for sharing > the info on Desag.... and especially the tidbits > about full antique... compressor blown, huh? > > Now what do you know about Lambert's new > facility and the Desag crew joining up? > > Best, > > Dani Greer > Greer Gallery & Studios > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 18:11:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:57:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: socent.org!atf From: "ATF Distribution Center-K. See" To: bungi Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------E69704DF1DDE581D17FF9834" Subject: USA vs import Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:19:34 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.111934.0> Organization: SOC Enterprises Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E69704DF1DDE581D17FF9834 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone. I've been boppin' around ebay and there is a company selling SG. I went to their web site. I believe they are called wholesalestainedglass.com anyway I asked them if their SG was american made or imports, based on the prices they would have to be imports. K See This is the reply I received. --------------E69704DF1DDE581D17FF9834 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by dcfree.net (8.9.0/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA26023 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 01:24:14 -0400 (EDT) From: STAINEDG@aol.com Received: from STAINEDG@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id dSQSa27562 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 00:47:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 00:47:31 EDT Subject: Re: Are these products To: atf@socent.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Reply-To: STAINEDG@aol.com Hello and thank you for your interest........These products are made in the US and in Tecate, Mexico. They are made by the La Costa family, a Mexican family of 23 who all craft stained glass work full time! Now here where it gets tricky :) 7 of the 23 family members live in Bonita, CA ... this is 4 miles from the Mexican border & 8 mile from Tecate. And Tecate is 4 mile from the border as well..... Stained glass is made in both country's at a 8 mile difference in distance..... Only in California :) Every piece of glass made to use our in products is exported from the US to mex (100% American made) handcrafted and then sent back to the US. and about 30% of the glass in crafted in the US...... Sounds weird huh? But its the truth :) Thats why I have such a beautiful inventory at such a great price!! We also do a full line of custom work, with a 12 day turn around on most pieces.. thanks again for your interest.... Anymore questions? just ask.....Derek --------------E69704DF1DDE581D17FF9834-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 18:33:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:00:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: L shaped cuts Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:55:42 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <199904142058.PAA16769@relay.acns.nwu.edu> Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk >>Maybe somebody who's more up on mechanical engineering than I am<< Sparks, are you *sure* you haven't done mechanical engineering in a former life? : - ) If you need a saw to cut a shape successfully because of its curviness, *the stress vulnerability inherent in the shape itself* is likely to cause problems in the future. I'll not soon forget a wonderfully long, thin, curvy piece I cut (by hand) and was SOOOO proud of my skill. My instructor said something like "very nice--show it off to the rest of the class and then go cut it in half because you're begging for a stress fracture." Sure took the wind outa my sails! Kaye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 18:53:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:28:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "Jeff Eckes" , Subject: Re: Hello... Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:14:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.141417.0> Precedence: bulk Welcome Jeff!! Yep, you missed it, we hashed over Giraffe joos over good. I like opinionated people. Exchange of ideas is what this is all about. I am open minded, will listen to anyone, and I will pipe up when I have something to say. Hope your move from NC back to NY goes well. Linda Jo -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Eckes To: glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 6:04 PM Subject: Hello... >I don't know if this is customary on this list but here goes... > >My name is Jeff Eckes. Some of you may know me from the work that I do in >glass. I am the president of Giraffe Enterprises Inc, which does business >in this industry as The Glass Giraffe ( a registered trademark). We (my >wife and I) market a series of stained glass instructional videos, as well >as the finishing chemical called 'giraffe joos', which I understand has been >getting a bit of attention on this list of late. >We also have a retail glass operation west of Asheville, NC where I also >live. Some of you may have heard that the business and building are form >sale...they are. We are moving back to NY in order for Karen to pursue her >old career. > >I am also a torch artist, known for my unique marbles, beads and ornaments. >I teach all over the country at times and will be doing the marble-making >demo at GAS in Tampa this year, as well as a pre-conference marble class at >Art Glass House the week before. Because of the move, my next class will be >at Urban Glass in NY in November. > >As if that was not enough, some of you might recognize my name from the >articles that I write for Glass Craftsman and Glass Patterns Quarterly >magazines. > >I truly enjoy teaching people about glass of all kinds and I hope to be able >to contribute to this list as much as possible. You will however begin to >notice that I have VERY strong opinions about things and that I am NOT >afraid to voice them, so some of you will like me and some will hate me I am >sure. > >If you have a specific question for me or you need to contact me PLEASE do >so directly to this email: glassgiraffe@earthlink.net >I only get to read the list responses in my spare time (ha!) and sometimes >don't get to do this for weeks at a time. > >Hope this gives you folks an idea of who I am. If you have any more >questions, please feel free to ask. > >Peace! > >Jeff Eckes > > > >"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little > temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." > >Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania > > > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 18:55:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:34:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: email.msn.com!EastGateXX From: "EastGateXX@msn.com" To: "Bungi" Subject: Re: Albert taken to task Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:33:19 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.83319.0> Precedence: bulk I'm totally engaged and enrolled by Albert's responsable and integerous response. I for one am going to join IGGA now... Go Albert express yourself! You're eloquent, masterful, and damn nice! -----Original Message----- From: Dani Greer To: Albert Lewis Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 2:34 PM Subject: Albert taken to task >Albert, dear director, given what we pay you at IGGA >(nothing), you have as much right to make personal >comments on bungi as anyone else. For those of >you who don't realize, the entire board of IGGA >and the executive director donate their time to run >the organization. The biggest jobs, of course, are >the web site, the Common Ground: Glass magazine, >and representing IGGA at various functions on the >planet. Just for the record, Albert has as much class >off-bungi as in print... he's no Nixon, so don't worry >that he's a questionable representative of IGGA. > >Now, off to drum up more members for IGGA.... my >personal goal is to double world membership in >the next year! > >Best regards, > >Dani Greer >Greer Gallery & Studios >www.igga.org/greer >Member International Guild of Glass Artists >IGGA Board member and Treasurer >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 19:08:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:02:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Hello... Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:00:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.15059.0> References: <<1999Apr14.104124.0>> Precedence: bulk Now how can we harrass Jeff for a bio? Dorothy Jeff Eckes wrote: > I don't know if this is customary on this list but here goes... > > My name is Jeff Eckes. Some of you may know me from the work that I do in > glass. I am the president of Giraffe Enterprises Inc, which does business > in this industry as The Glass Giraffe ( a registered trademark). etc... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 19:15:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:48:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: re: Conservation of Stained Glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:46:58 +0000 Message-ID: <199904142339.TAA16985@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > I, for one, would be interested in buying a copy. How do we go > about this? It's for sale just about everywhere: http://www.white-housebooks.com/ http://www.amazon.com/ http://www.igga.org/ (the Guild's site) and, of course, http://www.aiap.com/ (the publisher), as well as Archetype Publishers & Booksellers, London, England - (071) 380-0800 ; The Corning Museum of Glass, Corning NY - (607) 937-5371; Delphi Stained Glass - (517) 482-2617; Ed Hoy's International, Naperville IL - (708) 420-0890; Franciscan Glass Company, Mountain View CA - (415) 948-6666; Franklin Art Glass Studios, Columbus OH - (614) 221-2972; La Galerie du Vitrail, Chartres, France - 1 (373) 610 03; Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York NY - (212) 650-2913; Potterton Books, Sessay Thirsk, England - 1(184) 501-218; Prairie Avenue Bookshop, Chicago, IL - (312) 922-8311 There's an info sheet on it at http://www.aiap.com/sloan.htm Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 19:20:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:03:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mindspring.com!pigznpawz From: "Jerri" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bungi post Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:35:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.143549.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Jeff, Do you have a web site? I took a bead making class recently and loved it. I'd love to see your work. Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 19:28:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:39:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "Jeff Eckes" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Hello... Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:36:35 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.143635.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Jeff, Glad to see you here. I was just wondering if this product is the same thing as Evershield made by Fry? And what is the cost for a 8 oz bottle. retail. And don't worry about having strong opinions. Most of us do. my best, pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Eckes To: glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 6:27 PM Subject: Hello... >I don't know if this is customary on this list but here goes... > >My name is Jeff Eckes. Some of you may know me from the work that I do in >glass. I am the president of Giraffe Enterprises Inc, which does business >in this industry as The Glass Giraffe ( a registered trademark). We (my >wife and I) market a series of stained glass instructional videos, as well >as the finishing chemical called 'giraffe joos', which I understand has been >getting a bit of attention on this list of late. >We also have a retail glass operation west of Asheville, NC where I also >live. Some of you may have heard that the business and building are form >sale...they are. We are moving back to NY in order for Karen to pursue her >old career. > >I am also a torch artist, known for my unique marbles, beads and ornaments. >I teach all over the country at times and will be doing the marble-making >demo at GAS in Tampa this year, as well as a pre-conference marble class at >Art Glass House the week before. Because of the move, my next class will be >at Urban Glass in NY in November. > >As if that was not enough, some of you might recognize my name from the >articles that I write for Glass Craftsman and Glass Patterns Quarterly >magazines. > >I truly enjoy teaching people about glass of all kinds and I hope to be able >to contribute to this list as much as possible. You will however begin to >notice that I have VERY strong opinions about things and that I am NOT >afraid to voice them, so some of you will like me and some will hate me I am >sure. > >If you have a specific question for me or you need to contact me PLEASE do >so directly to this email: glassgiraffe@earthlink.net >I only get to read the list responses in my spare time (ha!) and sometimes >don't get to do this for weeks at a time. > >Hope this gives you folks an idea of who I am. If you have any more >questions, please feel free to ask. > >Peace! > >Jeff Eckes > > > >"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little > temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." > >Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania > > > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 19:29:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:49:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: erols.com!nadinesfolly From: Nadine Beth Schneider To: Dani Greer Subject: re: Re: L shaped cuts Date: 14 Apr 99 19:34:10 -0500 Message-ID: <199904142339.TAA15803@smtp2.erols.com> Precedence: bulk I, personally, thought they meant strictly for decoration. . . like in a family room or on a dining table. But, I've only seen the one in GPQ.. .haven't seen the book yet. Nadine www.nadinesfolly.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 19:39:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:32:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Albert taken to task Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:15:32 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.121532.0> Organization: SBWSA Precedence: bulk Albert, I don't think you could offend anyone if you tried, you have such a golden tongue when it comes to expressing yourself :<). Someone, evidently, had a bad hair day when they wrote that to you. Carol T ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 19:45:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:03:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Just One More... Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:03:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.16348.0> Precedence: bulk Heck, Sparks, I was almost late for work last night because I thought I was going to miss that" just one more" message....LOL, going to see Chihuly Sat....take care, Abbie in Va. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 19:47:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:18:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: L shaped cuts Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:16:58 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.171658.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com > If you need a saw to cut a shape successfully because of its curviness, *the stress vulnerability inherent in the shape itself* is likely to cause problems in the future. < This is well said.... and in addition, just keep in mind that not every awkwardly cut piece of glass will stress fracture.... it's just that there is a greater risk that it will. When you're selling commissions, the risk is the artist's, not the customer's. Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 19:57:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:14:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: High their your Giraffitude! Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:08:29 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr15.0829.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/14/99 6:04:10 PM, glassgiraffe@earthlink.net wrote: >My name is Jeff Eckes. Some of you may know me from the work that I do in >glass. I am the president of Giraffe Enterprises Inc, which does business >in this industry as The Glass Giraffe ( a registered trademark). Welcome aboard, your lofty and speckled eminence! Indeed, your "Giraffe Joos" has been getting a lot of airplay recently..... So...... the question for all the rest of you boyz 'n' grrlz out there is: Are we feeling mellow and charitable enough to let this count toward Patrick's weekly quota of bios? I say, why not? he's been working overtime rehearsing in case we need that singing telegram....... Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 19:59:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:57:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "bungi.com" Subject: cement vs. putty Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:33:27 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.153327.0> Precedence: bulk I was talking to a new person to glass like 3 months, and she has just started with foil, and I was explaining how I learned and most folks I know do lead. (note: I am by no means an expert but like working with lead as much as foil) So I got to the point where I said I cement the window. She corrected me and said "no you use putty." I said "no I use cement (not like you pour in the driveway)", and this person started correcting me saying "the book" said......... I told here there were many books on how to do stained glass but.............. Well gee wizz...... I have been working in and trying to learn more about glass for over 10 years, I think I do good work, I think I learn well and remember what I have read and was taught. OK, I did mention to her that what we do isn't the same as what a glazier does with puttying a window (regular window pane in wood mullion or whatever) with putty, but what we are doing isn't the same. I tried to explain that it cements the gap between the glass and lead and makes the window stronger, and just part of the way a window is done. This person insisted that what I was doing was wrong (gosh and I just spent a couple days looking for all the supplies to make my own cement, still haven't found lamp black) and I am a bit frustrated, and need to reload. Give me some ammo guys for a know it all. If I need to be puttying my windows instead of cementing please advise ASAP!!! :-) Note: This is the same person that cuts ALL her glass with a Taurus saw. Hey I am not going to but in, in how she does her glass but would like to have her know what is the correct way if and when she ever tries lead. Why who knows maybe she will figure out a way to not cement, and even how not to solder but use glue or something. Thanks for listening I am just frustrated. Linda Jo ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 20:03:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:27:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!rwl50 From: Rick To: Albert Lewis , glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Albert taken to task Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:28:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr14.112825.0> Precedence: bulk Albert, I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep over those comments, I have determined a long time ago certain people will bitch even if they were hung with a NEW rope. Regards, Rick === http://home.fuse.net/crafts _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 20:12:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:18:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: NG Paging Dr. Sparks? was RE: Do you want less bungi messages? Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:17:08 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr15.0178.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/14/99 7:06:32 PM, daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@aol.com wrote: >Sparks > >Just wondering if you are OK. >This is only the second message I got from you today. >Forget the wieners and complainers!!! Some of us need the entertainment. and I'm still here, but between taking care of a sick mom (some kind of stomach bug, I had it yesterday but kicked it pretty quick, maybe something we ate but we can't figure out what) and having to come up with a creative excuse for a tax return........... you get the idea........ Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 20:13:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:26:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: Witchdoc3@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Do you want less bungi messages? Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:08:56 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.13856.0> References: <<1999Apr14.173845.0@[207.126.97.2]>> Organization: SBWSA Precedence: bulk I second the motion. Need my message fix every hour on the hour. Carol T Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/13/99 8:44:11 PM, dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca wrote: > > >For some time I have being reading one or two messages a day with the > >collection of the messages posted during it ("digest" version of > >bungi). I configure this list to avoid to deal with every single > >message. [...] > > I hereby nominate our barefoot boy for "Official Patron Saint of Lurkers" > (and of us other folks who sometimes can't seem to get anything done because > we're forever checking for just *one* more message before we shut down..... I > don't know anyone who does that, do you??????)! > > Sparks > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 20:43:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:38:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ghostman.com!candy From: "Candy Thurman" To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Albert taken to task Date: Wed, 14 Apr 99 19:33:21 Message-ID: <199904150234.UAA15884@mantis.privatei.com> Precedence: bulk Personally, Albert, I'd rather hear comments right up front, playful and otherwise, than the polite disdain I've experienced both online and off!! So, everyone, just spout on, and if you're out of line, I'm sure at least one of us will speak out!! Candy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 21:04:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:44:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------6AC610E55274" Subject: [Fwd: Re: Hello...] Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:48:16 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.164816.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6AC610E55274 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit oops! Sorry PJ, that you're gettin this twice! --------------6AC610E55274 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <37155341.6CF7@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:47:29 -0500 From: Suzanne Reply-To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pj friend Subject: Re: Hello... References: <1999Apr14.143635.0> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > And don't worry about having strong opinions. Most of us do. > Ditto that sentiment. (second that emotion) You probably wouldnt fit in around here if you didnt! ;o) Hey, you sell that stuff in bigger bottles? ;o) I'm lovin it! T Suz... -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte --------------6AC610E55274-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 21:14:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:44:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ticnet.com!rjlcon From: "Jak N Wolfy" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Get a Life Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:51:13 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.165113.0> Precedence: bulk Isn't Hoppie what the Lone Ranger and Tonto called Hopalong Cassidy,, or did I miss an episode,,,, Jackie -----Original Message----- From: seaspray@island.net To: glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 11:46 PM Subject: re: Get a Life > >>Unfortunately Garry, this is not a mailing list for Hoppy crafting. >>Perhaps you could find that in the Onelist menu. > >I just figured the guy was dyslexic and didn't know the difference between >his p's and b's. hobbies??? > >C. > >Carol Swann >Synergy Glass & Creative >http://www.igga.org/synergy >seaspray@island.net > >check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: >http://come.to/The_E-Tour > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 21:26:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:53:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "ATF Distribution Center-K. See" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: USA vs import Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:52:38 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.185238.0> Precedence: bulk Sounds like a great set-up for them and their customers.... wish they were closer - I'd send them all the cabinet door requests we've been getting for the past week! Gack! Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 21:36:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:00:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ticnet.com!rjlcon From: "Jak N Wolfy" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Fw: Virus Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:06:56 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.17656.0> Precedence: bulk This just came in from my son-in-law, sounds like another one ... Jackie -----Original Message----- From: Rob Stacy To: VIRGIL R Mills ; Vicki Bekins ; Steve E Harlos ; Stacy, Darryl ; Ronald Holder ; Ed & Nancy Roebuck ; Robert Triplett ; Randy White ; Jeff&Kim Pyper ; Janice F Hunter ; Jak N Wolfy ; Gregg & Suzanne Grimaud ; Anthony Gizborne ; cindy souza ; Brown Family ; Brian & Bambi Bekins Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 4:08 PM Subject: Fw: Virus > >-----Original Message----- >From: Barry Simmonds >To: Don David ; Pastor Russell >; Rob Stacy ; Robert >Triplett ; Tammie Pacholke ; Terry >and Sandy Hess ; Terry Hess ><363f15c.ccf@psab.aorcentaf.af.mil> >Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 3:16 PM >Subject: Fw: Virus > > >> >> >>---------- >>> From: thess@micron.net >>> To: Barry W. Simmonds >>> Subject: Fw: Virus >>> Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 12:59 PM >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------- >>> > From: Jessie Saxton >>> > To: eirelav98@aol.com; snaretev@aol.com; heathers4God@hotmail.com; >>> RKBartle@micron.net; Thess@micron.net >>> > Subject: Fwd: Virus >>> > Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 8:49 AM >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > From: Hannah E Kemp >>> > To: lweegee@juno.com, erinebeth@juno.com, >>> sonesfamily1@juno.com,allison@bitstreet.com, lwright@juno.com, >>> RE-Laddusaw@juno.com,JosiahLB@aol.com, sweetygirl15@kltymail.com, >>> mnm15@swbell.net,bcbailey@bitstreet.com, littlehands@hotmail.com, >>> tedodson@hsutx.edu,r-foreman1@ti.com, dgregory@swconnect.net, >>> pete112@juno.com,hotawana@integrityonline2.com, Tuegels@aol.com, >>> jessa19@hotmail.com,kkemp@lyon.edu, bastropian@classic.msn.com, >>> revdrev@juno.com,mattkemp@juno.com, Maaatha@ibm.net, >>> KempBJ@airmail.net,arkansas17@hotmail.com, pmekadnil@juno.com, >>> jskemp@juno.com >>> > Subject: Virus >>> > Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 07:47:41 -0600 >>> > >>> > >>> > Hannah Elizabeth Kemp >>> > hkemp13@juno.com >>> > The truth, the whole truth and probably more truth than you wanted to >>> > hear.> >>> >>> > >>> > >>> > > >>>WARNING! >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>>If you receive an email titled "It Takes Guts to Say 'Jesus"" >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>>DO NOT open it. It will erase everything on your hard drive. >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>>Forward this letter out to as many people as you can. >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>>This is a new, very malicious virus and not many people know about >> >>> > > it. >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>>This information was announced yesterday morning from IBM; >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>>please share it with everyone that might access the Internet. >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>>Once again, pass this along to EVERYONE in your address book so >>that >>> > >>> > > >this >>> > > >>>may be stopped. Also, do not open or even look at any mail that >>says >>> > > >>>"RETURNED OR UNABLE TO DELIVER." >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>>This virus will attach itself to your computer components and >>render >>> > > >>>them useless. >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>>Immediately delete any mail items that say this. >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>>AOL has said that this is a very dangerous virus and that there is >>> > NO >>> > > >>remedy >>> > > >>>for it at this time. >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>>Please practice cautionary measures and forward this to all your >>> > > >online >>> > > >>>friends ASAP. >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>>P.S. Checked this out with IBM this AM- and this is a real one, >>> > > >>>apparently aimed at Christians. Heed or look for a new hard drive. >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>>Dora Hempling >>> > > >>>Division Secretary >>> > > >>>Business & Computer Science Division/SCC >>> > > >>>J122 972/881-5846 >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >>From the Desk of: Mr. Fareed M. H. Elian(WhiteJEdi) >>> > > >>Email: fareed@gateway.net >>> > > >>May the Lord Bless you Always! :-) ----|-------------- >> >>> > > >>Home Page: >>> > > >>http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Labyrinth/6410 >>> > > >> >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >______________________________________________________ >>> > > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ______________________________________________________ >>> > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >>> > > --------- End forwarded message ---------- >>> > > >>> > > ________________________________________________________________ >>> > > Get secure free e-mail that you don't need Web access to use >>> > > from Juno, the world's second largest online service. >>> > > Download your free software at http://www.juno.com/getit.b.html. >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > .................................... >>> > Get your own free email account from >>> > http://www.klty.com >>> > >>> > ________________________________________________________________ >>> > Get secure free e-mail that you don't need Web access to use >>> > from Juno, the world's second largest online service. >>> > Download your free software at http://www.juno.com/getit.b.html. >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________________________ >>> > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 21:43:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:22:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: Albert taken to task Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 23:22:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.192221.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@localhost > Vic M. Executive Director for Nothing in Particular and Acceptable Curses.< Somewhere I have a marvelous list of Ye Old English curses that will really snazz up Albert's foul language.... Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 21:55:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:10:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cros.net!soraya From: "Soraya" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Albert taken to task Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 23:08:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.19848.0> References: <<1999Apr14.83319.0>> Precedence: bulk From: EastGateXX@msn.com > I'm totally engaged and enrolled by Albert's responsable and integerous > response. I for one am going to join IGGA now I haven't considered membership in the IGGA before (I do not feel I am at the level of artist.) But may have to rethink that stance....any group that as leadership that, by their simple act of being great, emotionally complete humans, can keep away the too easily offended ....well...that is a group for me! Thanks Albert! Take Care, Soraya ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Soraya Can be reached at... soraya@cros.net ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Soraya's Witches' Thicket is at... http://www.cros.net/soraya ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Not failure, but low aim, is crime. --James Russell Lowell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 22:06:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:40:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Linda Jo Letscher" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: cement vs. putty Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 23:36:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.19369.0> Precedence: bulk Well, Linda Jo, technically it's called "cementing" though alot of folks use the terms interchangeably. The dark ooze that's the consistency of treacle/ pancake batter/honey, worked into the channels, and cleaned up with whiting is called "cement". There is a thing called "thumb putty" that you can buy to work into the lead channels, and maybe that is what this newbie has used. We don't use it because it takes longer and it doesn't put as nice a patina on the lead. And then, of course, there's the sash putty that you mentioned to her which we = absolutely do not advise folks to use in their lead channel, thinned down or not. Tell her to pick up a copy of Introduction to Stained Glass by the Wardell's....page 35 has a half-page on "cementing". Three pictures, too.... ;-D Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery &STudios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 23:15:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:58:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: L shaped cuts Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 00:56:40 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr15.45640.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/14/99 9:34:19 PM, kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU wrote: >Sparks, are you *sure* you haven't done mechanical engineering in >a former life? : - ) Yup....... but I did date a MechE all through college (now *that's* a former life for ya! but back then I was an uptight little preacher's kid trying really hard to stay that way). Musta got some of it by osmosis........ wasn't getting much of anything else back in those days =8-O But I also remember (vaguely, a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away) having to work out a physics problem in which a car got stuck in a ditch and the owner happened to have a strong rope handy, tied one end to a tree trunk and the other to the front bumper, pushed sideways as hard as he could at the midpoint of the rope, and managed to barely budge the car. I forget how the math worked, but the sideways stresses generated by pushing on the apex of the angle were pretty incredible! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 23:27:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:14:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: NG Bungians and their Maledictions, was RE: Albert taken to task Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 01:10:06 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr15.5106.0> Precedence: bulk >>Vic M. >>Executive Director for Nothing in Particular and Acceptable Curses. I think I'm going to start compiling a list of "Famous Bungians I have Known"..... Bob the Dinosaur (aka "King of the Wedgies") was only the beginning......... And Dani sez: >Somewhere I have a marvelous list of Ye Old English curses >that will really snazz up Albert's foul language.... Hey Dani, when you find that list, send me a copy, willya? Sparks, Certified Tax Non-Expert ....thinking that a nice glass of red wine would taste really good right now, but oh what that would do to my arithmetic! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 14 23:45:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:22:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Fw: Virus Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 01:21:18 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr15.52118.0> Precedence: bulk Also sprach Jak 'n' Wolfy: >This just came in from my son-in-law, sounds like another one ... Everybody relax, it's another hoax...... see the following: http://www.stiller.com/guts.htm http://chekware.simplen et.com/hoaxfaq.htm#Jesus http://www.av.ibm.co m/BreakingNews/HypeAlert/Guts/ http://kumite.com/myths/myths/ http://www.gerlitz.com/virus hoax/hoax2.htm http://www.umich.edu/~wwwit d/virus-busters/ Sparks (Taxes? What taxes?) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 00:16:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:48:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Albert, Here is a Page For You,,, Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:35:45 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.153545.0> Precedence: bulk http://members.xoom.com/streetgerman/Fluchen.html Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: Soraya To: Bungi Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 09:53 PM Subject: Re: Albert taken to task | |From: EastGateXX@msn.com | |> I'm totally engaged and enrolled by Albert's responsable and integerous |> response. I for one am going to join IGGA now | |I haven't considered membership in the IGGA before (I do not feel I am at |the level of artist.) But may have to rethink that stance....any group that |as leadership that, by their simple act of being great, emotionally complete |humans, can keep away the too easily offended ....well...that is a group |for me! | |Thanks Albert! | |Take Care, |Soraya | |~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ |Soraya Can be reached at... |soraya@cros.net |~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ |Soraya's Witches' Thicket is at... |http://www.cros.net/soraya |~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ |Not failure, but low aim, is crime. --James Russell Lowell | | |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 00:35:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:53:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Jak N Wolfy" , Subject: Re: Virus Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:39:19 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr14.153919.0> Precedence: bulk >From what Symantec says, this is a HOAX. http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/jesus-hoax.html Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: Jak N Wolfy To: glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 09:46 PM Subject: Fw: Virus |This just came in from my son-in-law, sounds like another one ... | |Jackie |-----Original Message----- |From: Rob Stacy |To: VIRGIL R Mills ; Vicki Bekins |; Steve E Harlos ; Stacy, Darryl |; Ronald Holder ; Ed |& Nancy Roebuck ; Robert Triplett |; Randy White ; Jeff&Kim Pyper |; Janice F Hunter ; Jak N Wolfy |; Gregg & Suzanne Grimaud ; Anthony |Gizborne ; cindy souza ; |Brown Family ; Brian & Bambi Bekins | |Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 4:08 PM |Subject: Fw: Virus | | |> |>-----Original Message----- |>From: Barry Simmonds |>To: Don David ; Pastor Russell |>; Rob Stacy ; Robert |>Triplett ; Tammie Pacholke ; Terry |>and Sandy Hess ; Terry Hess |><363f15c.ccf@psab.aorcentaf.af.mil> |>Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 3:16 PM |>Subject: Fw: Virus |> |> |>> |>> |>>---------- |>>> From: thess@micron.net |>>> To: Barry W. Simmonds |>>> Subject: Fw: Virus |>>> Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 12:59 PM |>>> |>>> |>>> |>>> ---------- |>>> > From: Jessie Saxton |>>> > To: eirelav98@aol.com; snaretev@aol.com; heathers4God@hotmail.com; |>>> RKBartle@micron.net; Thess@micron.net |>>> > Subject: Fwd: Virus |>>> > Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 8:49 AM |>>> > |>>> > |>>> > |>>> > |>>> > |>>> > |>>> > From: Hannah E Kemp |>>> > To: lweegee@juno.com, erinebeth@juno.com, |>>> sonesfamily1@juno.com,allison@bitstreet.com, lwright@juno.com, |>>> RE-Laddusaw@juno.com,JosiahLB@aol.com, sweetygirl15@kltymail.com, |>>> mnm15@swbell.net,bcbailey@bitstreet.com, littlehands@hotmail.com, |>>> tedodson@hsutx.edu,r-foreman1@ti.com, dgregory@swconnect.net, |>>> pete112@juno.com,hotawana@integrityonline2.com, Tuegels@aol.com, |>>> jessa19@hotmail.com,kkemp@lyon.edu, bastropian@classic.msn.com, |>>> revdrev@juno.com,mattkemp@juno.com, Maaatha@ibm.net, |>>> KempBJ@airmail.net,arkansas17@hotmail.com, pmekadnil@juno.com, |>>> jskemp@juno.com |>>> > Subject: Virus |>>> > Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 07:47:41 -0600 |>>> > |>>> > |>>> > Hannah Elizabeth Kemp |>>> > hkemp13@juno.com |>>> > The truth, the whole truth and probably more truth than you wanted to |>>> > hear.> >>> |>>> > |>>> > |>>> > > >>>WARNING! |>>> > > >>> |>>> > > >>>If you receive an email titled "It Takes Guts to Say 'Jesus"" |>>> > > >>> |>>> > > >>>DO NOT open it. It will erase everything on your hard drive. |>>> > > >>> |>>> > > >>>Forward this letter out to as many people as you can. |>>> > > >>> |>>> > > >>>This is a new, very malicious virus and not many people know |about |>> |>>> > > it. |>>> > > >>> |>>> > > >>>This information was announced yesterday morning from IBM; |>>> > > >>> |>>> > > >>>please share it with everyone that might access the Internet. |>>> > > >>> |>>> > > >>>Once again, pass this along to EVERYONE in your address book so |>>that |>>> > |>>> > > >this |>>> > > >>>may be stopped. Also, do not open or even look at any mail that |>>says |>>> > > >>>"RETURNED OR UNABLE TO DELIVER." |>>> > > >>> |>>> > > >>>This virus will attach itself to your computer components and |>>render |>>> > > >>>them useless. |>>> > > >>> |>>> > > >>>Immediately delete any mail items that say this. |>>> > > >>> |>>> > > >>>AOL has said that this is a very dangerous virus and that there |is |>>> > NO |>>> > > >>remedy |>>> > > >>>for it at this time. |>>> > > >>> |>>> > > >>>Please practice cautionary measures and forward this to all your |>>> > > >online |>>> > > >>>friends ASAP. |>>> > > >>> |>>> > > >>>P.S. Checked this out with IBM this AM- and this is a real one, |>>> > > >>>apparently aimed at Christians. Heed or look for a new hard |drive. |>>> > > >>> |>>> > > >>>Dora Hempling |>>> > > >>>Division Secretary |>>> > > >>>Business & Computer Science Division/SCC |>>> > > >>>J122 972/881-5846 |>>> > > >>> |>>> > > >>> |>>> > > >>> |>>> > > >>> |>>> > > >> |>>> > > >> |>>> > > >> |>>> > > >> |>>> > > >> |>>> > > >>From the Desk of: Mr. Fareed M. H. Elian(WhiteJEdi) |>>> > > >>Email: fareed@gateway.net |>>> > > >>May the Lord Bless you Always! :-) ----|-------------- |>> |>>> > > >>Home Page: |>>> > > >>http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Labyrinth/6410 |>>> > > >> |>>> > > > |>>> > > > |>>> > > >______________________________________________________ |>>> > > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com |>>> > > |>>> > > |>>> > > ______________________________________________________ |>>> > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com |>>> > > --------- End forwarded message ---------- |>>> > > |>>> > > ________________________________________________________________ |>>> > > Get secure free e-mail that you don't need Web access to use |>>> > > from Juno, the world's second largest online service. |>>> > > Download your free software at http://www.juno.com/getit.b.html. |>>> > > |>>> > > |>>> > |>>> > |>>> > |>>> > |>>> > .................................... |>>> > Get your own free email account from |>>> > http://www.klty.com |>>> > |>>> > ________________________________________________________________ |>>> > Get secure free e-mail that you don't need Web access to use |>>> > from Juno, the world's second largest online service. |>>> > Download your free software at http://www.juno.com/getit.b.html. |>>> > |>>> > |>>> > _______________________________________________________________ |>>> > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com |> |> |> |> | |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 00:48:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 23:26:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Van Gogh exhibit and Gamble house Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 23:24:38 -0700 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990414232438.009fee00@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> Precedence: bulk I just got back from visiting my college-age son in LA. We were lucky enough to get tickets for the Van Gogh exhibit at the LA County Museum of Art. Tremendous show...I recommend it highly for anyone visiting the area in the next month. Buy tickets ASAP, however. It's very popular. Also make sure you rent the audio tour, which is top notch. You can get details at http://www.lacma.org. The next day we headed to Pasadena to tour the Gamble house, which is an Arts and Crafts residence designed by Greene and Greene for the second half of the Proctor and Gamble duo. The Gamble house is now a national historic monument. Alas, it is only open for tours Thursday through Sunday so we missed out. We got to walk around the outside, however, and got a good view of numerous stained glass panels, lamps, and lanterns. We could also see both sides of the incredible wood and glass front door. Next to the Gamble house is a bookstore filled with amazing stuff on art, architecture, and some glass. I need to start playing (and winning) the lottery before I return so I can afford all books I would have liked to buy. I'm not sorry to have missed that nasty little get-a-life thread. I resisted the temptation to send a belated me-too reply but count another supporter in Sparks' camp. Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 01:49:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 23:52:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Bob E Duchesneau Subject: Long Beach show in June Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:35:20 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr13.223520.0> References: <<1999Apr12.125134.0@?>> Precedence: bulk In message <1999Apr12.125134.0@?>, Bob E Duchesneau writes >I attended Glass Craft Expo '99 ...cut...... >The exhibit area had about 100 exhibits ranging from small studios to >major stained glass manafactures. Many would call the number of >exhibitors small but there was plenty to see. Unfortunately my >suppliers were mostly absent and no doubt will show up at the large >show in Long Beach in June. Apologies to Bob (using his message to piggyback a question) Bob mentions a glass show in Long Beach in June. As it is just possible that I may be coming to USofA this summer, perhaps someone could give me more information on this exhibition. Dates, place, etc. Any comment on its "worthwhileness" as opposed to the Vegas show (which you all seem to like a lot) would be helpful. (Nobody seems to mention gambling in their reviews - is this just assumed as an additional reason for going?) Steve -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 02:22:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 00:55:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep From: "Brian Shepherd" To: "Jak N Wolfy" , Subject: Re: Virus Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:41:01 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.9411.0> Precedence: bulk Hello I understood that this is another one of those cons! But just in case don't open the file if it comes your way anyway but I wouldn't bother to clag up the bandwidth with warnings! It's the chain letter freaks at it again! BtB ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 02:31:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 01:06:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Jerri Subject: Re: L shaped cuts Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:14:44 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.91444.0> References: <<1999Apr13.171744.0@?>> Precedence: bulk Jerri, The answer to your question is - YES Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but eventually. Steve In message <1999Apr13.171744.0@?>, Jerri writes >Hi Dani, > > How L-shaped do you mean? I've pretty much always assumed that if I can >cut it (by hand) then it won't stress fracture. Is this true? Would a >rounded L shape stress fracture? > >Jerri > > > >> Message text written by Kathy >> >I knew that >> pattern was designed with a saw in mind.< >> >> Doesn't matter if you use a saw or not... they'll still stress >> fracture eventually. And I imagine a lot sooner than = >> >> later on a weather vane!! Good grief. Better you found >> out now, than after you sold a bunch of them... I swear >> some folks are drummin' up repair business on purpose! >> >> Best, >> >> Dani Greer >> Greer Gallery & Studios >> ---- >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 04:24:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 02:55:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: cement vs. putty Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 06:01:34 +0000 Message-ID: <199904150953.FAA25037@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > I cement the window. She corrected me and said "no you use > putty." I said "no I use cement (not like you pour in the > driveway)", and this person started correcting me saying "the book" > said......... I believe this is a question of semantics ... or of vocabulary, at least. The words are interchangeable to a degree: you cement a window with putty ... or with cement. You describe the process of cementing a leaded panel correctly, Linda Jo. The neophyte reminds me of my 17-year-old son; he knows just enough to get himself into trouble argumentively speaking. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 04:52:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 02:54:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Albert, Here is a Page For You,,, Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 06:01:34 +0000 Message-ID: <199904150953.FAA25069@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > http://members.xoom.com/streetgerman/Fluchen.html Couldn't get to it, Bud. But I speak German, so I can tell it has to do with low-German street obscenities. Thanks (I think) Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 04:55:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 02:55:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Albert taken to task Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 06:01:34 +0000 Message-ID: <199904150953.FAA25009@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Go Albert express yourself! You're eloquent, masterful, and damn > nice! Thanks to all of you who responded in the forum and privately in similar vein to the above. Turns out that the offending phrase had to do with the wadding used in black-powder blunderbusses, etc. S'funny, but a search on the internet using the phrase turns up steel shot and components for shotshell reloading and not much else except sites for players of the game, Doom. I've also heard the phrase (not repeated here for fear of ... well, you know) used in the context, say, of someone who goes to Las Vegas, bets the ranch, and loses. Anyway, what with German fluchen and old English scatologocal dictionaries now available, thanks to Bud and Dani, I can now carefully vet each word in my messages to avoid offense. Thanks for the high-fives, backslaps, cheers and altogether nice and encouraging things you've all said. You're a great group of people. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 05:09:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 02:55:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Long Beach show in June Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 06:01:34 +0000 Message-ID: <199904150953.FAA25026@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Bob mentions a glass show in Long Beach in June. As it is just > possible that I may be coming to USofA this summer, perhaps someone > could give me more information on this exhibition. Hi, Steve. That sort of thing is usually (always?) searchable on the Guild's database, although in this instance you'd have to enter "June" and "Long Beach" as the keywords, since you don't know much more than that. Events are also listed on http://www.stainedglassbiz.com/ But to answer your question: June 9 - 13, 1999 - Source'99: International Art Glass Suppliers Trade Show More than just a trade event, Source'99 begins with over 200 hours of retail and studio education, including business seminars and hands-on technical workshops. There is a variety of classes - all tailored to help buyers make bigger profits! June 9: Registration and seminars; June 10: Exhibitor move-in and seminars; June 11: Wholesale members' "Sneak Preview" of the show, seminars and keynote address; June 12: Exhibits open; June 13: Show opens to public. Location: Long Beach Convention & Entertainment Center, Long Beach, California. For more information or to attend, contact Art Glass Suppliers Association Int'l. (AGSA) PO Box 3388, Zanesville OH 43702 - 3388. Phone: ( 740 ) 452 - 4541 Fax: (740) 452-2552. Email: agsa.info@offinger.com Website: http://www.agsa.org/ Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 05:11:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 02:55:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: NG - Preacher's kids Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 06:01:34 +0000 Message-ID: <199904150953.FAA24624@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > back then I was an uptight little > preacher's kid trying really hard to stay that way). You, too? Not sure whether it's a curse or a blessing. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 05:47:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 04:18:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: "Conservation of Stained Glass in America" Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:25:06 +0000 Message-ID: <199904151117.HAA25770@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk Aw, I just noticed that some of the phone numbers in the list of those who carry "Conservation of Stained Glass in America" are out of date. An updated list of sources with up-to-date phone numbers has been installed at http://www.aiap.com/sloan.htm Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 06:37:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 05:07:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Albert taken to task Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 05:06:34 -0700 Message-ID: <199904151206.FAA31463@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >Message text written by INTERNET:seaspray@island.net >> >Gotta say that if anyone was offended they must be living in some kind of= > >rarified environment, and that they've certainly never been in a blue >collar >working environment! I'm sure they'd blanch and keel over in a fit of th= >e >vapours there. >< > >I would like to take the opportunity to comment that one of the things I >really appreciate about the bungi list these days is the *civility that w= >e >exhibit even in the heat of disagreement. Rarely is foul language = > >displayed, do I guess this is a rarified forum! And of course, there's >the understanding that Glenna would boot us into the ozone if we >did pollute.... Nevertheless, we prove every day, by choice and >common understanding, that foul language is unnecessary to >communicate effectively with one another. It's simply not required >by relatively intelligent and educated human beings, right? = Just want to make it clear that I wasn't suggesting we change the tone of bungi...I was only making a comment about how sensitive some folk are...hypersensitive and uncalled for in my opinion...one of the overdone strengths of being politically correct. C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 07:15:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 05:39:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Steve Richard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: L shaped cuts Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:44:21 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.24421.0> References: <<1999Apr15.91444.0>> Precedence: bulk So, sounds to me that a tight inside curve, even if managable to hand cut, poses the same threat of breakage at some later date? I've never heard anyone say anything about that...I always thought if if you could get it...well then, YEEEEEHAAAAA! What about it? Tulsa Suzanne > Jerri, > > The answer to your question is - YES > Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but eventually. > Steve > > In message <1999Apr13.171744.0@?>, Jerri > writes > >Hi Dani, > > > > How L-shaped do you mean? I've pretty much always assumed that if I can > >cut it (by hand) then it won't stress fracture. Is this true? Would a > >rounded L shape stress fracture? > > > >Jerri -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 08:12:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 06:26:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: NG Bungians and their Maledictions, was RE: Albert taken to task Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 06:24:36 -0700 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk > Well I'll be darned:) maledictions...I just learnt a new word, thanks! You'd never quess what I thought it was...grin. And Albert, not to worry and don't lose sleep over it! Had a very postive speech all ready...yesterday:) But it's way to earlier today for my brain to kick in...double:) You have always been very informative and most helpful and geez, is it really a non paying job!? Well yikes, if that doesn't beat all! And yes I still wanna join...where do I send my cheque?...while I still have some money:)..aka: starving artist. >>Sparks, Certified Tax Non-Expert >> ....thinking that a nice glass of red wine >> would taste really good right now, but >> oh what that would do to my arithmetic!...... Hey Sparks, wouldn't that round out the numbers nicely?? Cindy...now trying to put together 2 shows at the same time! Who's wondering is there rest for the wicked...hmmm, I think not:) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 08:51:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:24:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: "Jak N Wolfy" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Virus < Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:15:25 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.61525.0> References: <<1999Apr14.17656.0>> Precedence: bulk >>>This just came in from my son-in-law, sounds like another one ... Jackie THIS IS A HOAX!!!!!!!!!!! Another urban legend. If you call the number at the end of this email (please don't bother her unless you need to) for Dora Hempling you will be told that she sent this out to her associates before she knew it was a hoax. If you EVER have any questions about this type of thing, contact the virus research institute at: http://www.avertlabs.com and send them the text (NO HEADERS!!!) of the message OR the virus itself. Usually within 48 hours you will receive a message as to the validity of the, as well as a cure, if one is available. This is a division of NAI, who put out McAfee anti-virus, a GREAT program. If you like it, buy it. Meanwhile, let's understand that the REAL virus here is the forwarding of these types of messages (with attendant HUNDREDS of headers!!!) to everyone, WITHOUT checking the validity of the message. Peace! Jeff Eckes (glass artist and sometime computer nerd!) " I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. Corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the prejudices of the people, until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the Republic destroyed" Abraham Lincoln ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 09:29:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:59:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: NG Bungians and their Maledictions, was RE: Albert taken to task Date: Thu Apr 15 07:58:53 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.53653.0> Organization: Taylor'd Expressions Precedence: bulk i think next year we should all send out income taxes in frames in stained glass......at least we would get their attention... debbie debbie jo taylor kleeman@one.net http://www.taylordexpressions.com your complete stained glass supply source 1-888-488-9616 On Thursday, April 15, 1999 1:10 AM, Witchdoc3@aol.com [SMTP:Witchdoc3@aol.com] wrote: > > >>Vic M. > >>Executive Director for Nothing in Particular and Acceptable Curses. > > > > I think I'm going to start compiling a list of "Famous Bungians I have > Known"..... Bob the Dinosaur (aka "King of the Wedgies") was only the > beginning......... > > And Dani sez: > > >Somewhere I have a marvelous list of Ye Old English curses > >that will really snazz up Albert's foul language.... > > Hey Dani, when you find that list, send me a copy, willya? > > > Sparks, Certified Tax Non-Expert > ....thinking that a nice glass of red wine > would taste really good right now, but > oh what that would do to my arithmetic! > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 10:04:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:28:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: NG Bungians and their Maledictions Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:27:04 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr15.15274.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/15/99 11:12:48 AM, cpesonen@uniserve.com writes: << Well I'll be darned:) maledictions...I just learnt a new word, thanks! You'd never quess what I thought it was...grin. >> Oh yes I would! =8-O << Hey Sparks, wouldn't [a glass of wine] round out the numbers nicely?? >> I dunno, but the accumulated effects over time are sure rounding out my figure (not so nicely, I'm afraid) :-\ Somebody pass me some of those maledictions, willya? My hard drive is going wonky on me! Thank Gawd for warranties - and filing extensions! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 10:25:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:30:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: NG - Preacher's kids Date: Thu Apr 15 08:29:33 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.6733.0> Precedence: bulk It's a little bit of both. Vic M. The Rabbi's Grandson Only difference between preachers and rabbis is the rabbis use more guilt. -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis [mailto:alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net] Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 2:02 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: NG - Preacher's kids > back then I was an uptight little > preacher's kid trying really hard to stay that way). You, too? Not sure whether it's a curse or a blessing. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 10:28:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:35:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: NG Bungians and their Maledictions Date: Thu Apr 15 08:34:03 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.6123.0> Precedence: bulk Sparks Have you no class? It is white wine with taxes. If the Internal Revenue Sharks see a red stain on your return they think it is blood and go into a feeding frenzy. Vic M. AKA the True King of all Phisdom (among other things) -----Original Message----- From: Witchdoc3@aol.com [mailto:Witchdoc3@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 1:10 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: NG Bungians and their Maledictions, was RE: Albert taken to task >>Vic M. >>Executive Director for Nothing in Particular and Acceptable Curses. I think I'm going to start compiling a list of "Famous Bungians I have Known"..... Bob the Dinosaur (aka "King of the Wedgies") was only the beginning......... And Dani sez: >Somewhere I have a marvelous list of Ye Old English curses >that will really snazz up Albert's foul language.... Hey Dani, when you find that list, send me a copy, willya? Sparks, Certified Tax Non-Expert ....thinking that a nice glass of red wine would taste really good right now, but oh what that would do to my arithmetic! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 10:47:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:37:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: , Subject: Generator for Albert, Hey Dani !!! Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:24:49 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.12449.0> Precedence: bulk Goood Morning, Well, another one of the Minister kids, surfing for curses on the Internet,,, Found a few links that some of us might be interested in,,, Random Elizabethan Curse Generator http://www.tower.org/insult/insult.html Insult a Conservative an easy process, now made easier! http://www.tower.org/insult/conservative.html ASK CAPTAIN JACK http://www.tower.org/insult/captainjack.html Purity100 The 100 point purity test for non-virgins http://www.tower.org/purity/purity1.html Mild Curses of Religious and Other Origins in the Swedish Language http://users.bart.nl/~sante/enginv08.htm Cursing in Dutch http://www.santesson.com/enedcurs.htm Cursing in Afrikaans http://www.santesson.com/eafrcurs.htm Dirty Joke (Actually pretty clean, but funny) http://home.worldonline.nl/~sante/jokes/start.htm Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 10:49:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:42:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: NG Bio count Date: Thu Apr 15 08:40:16 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.61816.0> Precedence: bulk Ask not do we feel charitable, ask when has Toby been fed last. Vic M. Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com Are we feeling mellow and charitable enough to let this count toward Patrick's weekly quota of bios? I say, why not? he's been working overtime rehearsing in case we need that singing telegram....... Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 10:59:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:48:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Wayne Manning" , Subject: PRESS RELEASE Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:35:42 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.13542.0> Precedence: bulk PRESS RELEASE ! ENERGIZER BUNNY DIES!!! APR 15, 1999 - The Energizer Bunny, known best for "going and going and going..." passed away last evening at 12:42am. Upon completion of the autopsy early this morning, the chief medical examiner ruled that the death was caused by acute cardiac arrest, induced by sexual over-stimulation. Apparently, someone put the battery in backwards and the bunny kept coming, and coming and coming... Foul play has not been ruled out. Sincerely, ;-) Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 11:07:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:50:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Dumpster Diving Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:38:11 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.13811.0> Precedence: bulk http://www.connect-time.com/cgi-bin/dumpdive Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 11:08:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:52:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: net-port.com!columbine From: Ken & Barbara Larie To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Glass Giraffe Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:50:59 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.65059.0> Organization: Columbine Stained Glass Company Precedence: bulk Ken and I would like to complement Jeff Eckes and his wife on their videos. We have rented several from the Stained Glass Place in Grand Rapids, MI, and enjoyed them very much. We like the method, as well as the personalities. We thought they were most helpful and informative, much better than others we had looked at. We won't mention any names, as we don't wish to labeled as having a personal problem, or being prejudice, but we are we like that Glass Giraffe guy very much. Thanks. Barb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 11:16:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:21:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: L shaped cuts Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:19:52 +0000 Message-ID: <199904151612.MAA00512@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > I've never heard anyone say anything about that...I always thought > if if you could get it...well then, YEEEEEHAAAAA! "Nope," he said as laconically as Jimmy Stewart. A ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 11:32:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:24:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: su260.ast.lmco.com!thurman From: Candace Thurman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: snow in Colorado-NG! Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:18:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr15.41848.0> Precedence: bulk Hey, guys, got 7" of snow last night.. worried about the peonies and blooms on the plum tree and the little bleeding hearts just ready to open.. the bulbs will be fine.. they like this stuff.. Hey Dani, how much did you get down in the Springs? Candy Thurman Contractor to L/M ****************** Renovate your life and the Universe is Yours!-the old myths say from This Much I Know is True by Wally Lamb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 11:50:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:36:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: "I still wanna join" Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:42:34 +0000 Message-ID: <199904151635.MAA01269@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Well I'll be darned:) maledictions...I just learnt a new word, > yes I still wanna join...where do I send my cheque?...while I still > have some money:)..aka: starving artist. Hi, Cindy. Since you asked this in the open forum (if I'm reading the header correctly) I'll answer you and anyone else who's interested. Joining the Guild is a Good Thing. To read about the benefits, see http://www.igga.org/benefits.htm Be sure to notice that a subscription to Common Ground: Glass can be ordered separately from membership, but that the subscription is *included in membership at whatever leve you might choose. There are links from there to the application form, which shouldn't be considered some way of separating wheat from chaff ... or "artists" from "hobbyists." The Guild terms everyone who works with glass either "artist" or "craftsperson" and makes no judgements on experience or quality of work. All are welcome, as the little medium in Poltergeist puts it, although the spirits in the Guild's case are all living. Glad to hear you love words; so do I. A malediction is a curse; its corollary is a benediction ... a blessing. Language is cool. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 12:02:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:00:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: NG: Taxes done :-) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:59:37 -0700 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990415095937.00957820@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> Precedence: bulk Tough to get the forms into the mailbox this year even though it was a "revenue neutral" experience. The great but greedy state of California got all but $3 of my federal refund. I'm ready to party anyhow. Do the Canadian and British bungians have a similar day to commemorate the thrill of victory or the agony of defeat? Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 12:18:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:51:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Bud Britt" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Albert, Here is a Page For You,,, Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:49:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.9494.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Bud Britt" >Fluchen< Hi Bud - Albert probably knows all those already! ;-D Best, Dani ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 12:29:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:51:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Cindy Pesonen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: NG Bungians and their Maledictions, was RE: Albert taken to task Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:49:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.94914.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Cindy Pesonen >You have always been very informative and most helpful and geez, is it really a non paying job!? Well yikes, if that doesn't beat all! And yes I still wanna join...where do I send my cheque?...while I still have some money:)..aka: starving artist. = < Hooray, Cindy, join the crowd! And stop thinking that "starving artist" stuff.... the sooner you think "prosperous artist", the sooner you'll get there! Trust me! Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 12:41:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:51:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: NG Bungians and their Maledictions, was RE: Albert taken to task Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:49:02 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.9492.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com > ....thinking that a nice glass of red wine would taste really good right now, but oh what that would do to my arithmetic!< Let the wine take care of the math.... you can always offer = the nice IRS agent a glass while you're getting audited! Hahaha... I'll send the words when I find them.... Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 12:47:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:51:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: L shaped cuts Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:43:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.94330.0> References: <<199904140048.UAA27424@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk I have been following this thread for some time and I have a few comments (oh nooooo....) then I HAVE TO go do marbles! 1. Those who say that a "L" shaped cut WILL eventually fracture are wrong 2. Those who say that an "l" shaped cut MAY eventually fracture are correct. I have seen 100 year old glass panels with perfectly intact "l" shoped cuts (and WORSE!) as well as 2 week old panels with the same cut that is cracked in the obvious place. It depends as much on how you distribute the internal stresses in a panel as to what shapes you cut. ALSO: if you want to determine what kind of stresses are present in a particular piece of glass, just use a polariscope to find out (try it on some of your favorite glass to see if it is annealed properly, you might be surprised!) the same as if you where fusing. KEEP THIS IN MIND: glass is a FLUID which is usually encountered in its frozen state (on the planet Mercury it would be liquid, like mercury is solid on this planet but not on Neptune. Truly an issue of perspective, no?) Therefore most of the dynamics of solid mechanics goes out the window. Look to FLUID mechanics (hydraulic) for the true skinny on glass. For this reason, tapping, running, sawing et al, have very little effect on the glass once it has been finished (you can STILL crack it by hitting too hard, duh!) This is not to say that there is NOT a problem with the stresses INTERNAL to a panel. If there are enough of them, it will crack ANY piece of glass that is in the way, awkward shapes especially. HOWEVER, the same shape, left on a table for 1,000 years WILL NOT crack due to the shape! THIS is the reason that we need to consider REINFORCEMENT of our panels (the larger, the more essential!) to be the TRUE mark of the PROFESSIONAL glass artist. Now, getting this reinforcement to LOKK GOOD is a whole 'nother thing! Gee, I have been considering a video/book on this subject. Whattaya think? Jeff Eckes The Glass Giraffe (notice the signature is attached to my company. Yes, this is "official", so slam me if you must!) HA! "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis [mailto:alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 4:56 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: L shaped cuts > some folks are drummin' up repair business on purpose! You just copped to that? There're lots of studios that have 20-year plans. Some have 10-year and 5-year plans, the latter using "pure" solder, of course. A ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 13:00:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:52:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Do you want less bungi messages? Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:43:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.94326.0> References: <<199904132342.TAA01762@ppp04.math.uwaterloo.ca>> Precedence: bulk I have a question for the list momma, Can you configure the list so that it always comes "from" glass@bunji.com ? If you could it would be a MAJOR boon to thise of us who configure our mail clients to 'dump' mailings from different lists directly into a separate file. As it is now, I need to go through all the mail and separate out the bunji stuff. If you need some info on configuration, please feel free to email me. :) Jeff Eckes -----Original Message----- From: Daniel M. German [mailto:dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca] Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 7:42 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Do you want less bungi messages? For some time I have being reading one or two messages a day with the collection of the messages posted during it ("digest" version of bungi). I configure this list to avoid to deal with every single message. Since the configuration is done already, and working, anybody who wants can try it. If you want to receive it, send a message to majordomo@csgrs6k1.uwaterloo.ca In the body of the message write: subscribe bungi-digest
where
is your email address. Messages are sent at 24:00, every day. Or more often if there are many postings. dmg -- Daniel M. German http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 13:01:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:52:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:seaspray@island.net" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Albert taken to task Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:49:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.94911.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:seaspray@island.net >one of the overdone strengths of being politically correct. C.< Yes, but better too formal than too lax.... around here you can go to the most expensive restaurant in town and still get an earful of the F-word. More than I care to pay for.... Best, Dani ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 13:19:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:53:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Albert Lewis" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Albert taken to task Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:49:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.9497.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Albert Lewis" >You're a great group of people.< And you're a great people, too! Guess nobody likes to see anyone messin' with our Albert! Best, Dani = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 13:21:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:53:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Get a life Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:43:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.94328.0> References: <<1999Apr13.93523.0>> Precedence: bulk Believe it or not a good friend of mine is NAMED hoppy....go figure,..? Also another friend (not related to the other) used to own a restaurant and called his sorta-calzone things-you guessed it. The end result is that I am now REALLY confused... Think I'll hoppy on down and make some marbles... Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Dani Greer [mailto:GreerStudios@compuserve.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 1:35 PM To: Carol Tombro Subject: Re: Get a life Message text written by Carol Tombro >glass and hoppies.< What the heck are hoppies????? Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 13:30:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:02:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pobox.com!Northernlights From: "Northernlights (Tracy Reitmann)" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: horizontal support Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:01:36 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.8136.0> Organization: http://members.tripod.com/Northernlights/index.html Precedence: bulk I'm wondering if my message got buried in people's e-mails.....just in case it did, here it is.... I started designing two long, narrow leaded panels that are going to be hanging side by side -- each one measures 14" x 34.5" . Dutiful me started thinking right away "okay, draw in where the horizontal support's going to go," and then I began to re-think it. I started thinking that at 14" it might be narrow enough that I don't need horizontal support. I don't know that I've ever heard any kind of "rule of thumb" on support, just basically "use your own best judgment." Does anyone have any thoughts on this? The piece is going to be basically geometric, 2" outside border, with 2" square bevels in the corners, next inside border is going to be 1" with 1" square bevels on the inside corners so the area where the design is going to go winds down to 8" x 27.75". I figured I'd better post this before I finally came up with a design I fell in love with only to find out I have to re-draw it with a support line! Thanks! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 13:56:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:31:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: NG Bungians and their Maledictions Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:24:22 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr15.192422.0> Precedence: bulk Dixit Vic M, AKA the True King of all Phisdom (among other things): >Have you no class? >It is white wine with taxes. >If the Internal Revenue Sharks see a red stain on your return they think >it is blood and go into a feeding frenzy. Well, excu-u-u-u-u-use me! I'm sticking with red, it gives me a better chance of avoiding the heart attack I'm going to have when I see the bottom line......... Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 14:31:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:20:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: clientside-viennasys.com!sfairbairn From: Steve Fairbairn To: 'Stained Glass Mailing List' Content-Type: text/plain Subject: RE: Do you want less bungi messages? Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:18:23 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.61823.0> Precedence: bulk If you are using Outlook or Exchange to read email, you can use your Rules Wizard to search for strings in the message for sorting purposes. I have a rule configured to search for 'bunji.com' in the body of the message. If it finds the string, it dumps the message into my Bunji folder. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Eckes [mailto:glassgiraffe@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 10:43 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Do you want less bungi messages? I have a question for the list momma, Can you configure the list so that it always comes "from" glass@bunji.com ? If you could it would be a MAJOR boon to thise of us who configure our mail clients to 'dump' mailings from different lists directly into a separate file. As it is now, I need to go through all the mail and separate out the bunji stuff. If you need some info on configuration, please feel free to email me. :) Jeff Eckes -----Original Message----- From: Daniel M. German [mailto:dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca] Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 7:42 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Do you want less bungi messages? For some time I have being reading one or two messages a day with the collection of the messages posted during it ("digest" version of bungi). I configure this list to avoid to deal with every single message. Since the configuration is done already, and working, anybody who wants can try it. If you want to receive it, send a message to majordomo@csgrs6k1.uwaterloo.ca In the body of the message write: subscribe bungi-digest
where
is your email address. Messages are sent at 24:00, every day. Or more often if there are many postings. dmg -- Daniel M. German http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 15:00:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:22:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: L shaped cuts Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:28:35 +0000 Message-ID: <199904152020.QAA05436@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > 1. Those who say that a "L" shaped cut WILL eventually fracture are > wrong 2. Those who say that an "l" shaped cut MAY eventually > fracture are correct. Absolutely on the money, Jeff. > KEEP THIS IN MIND: glass is a FLUID which is usually encountered in > its frozen state (on the planet Mercury it would be liquid, like > mercury is solid on this planet but not on Neptune. But this I disagree with. Glass exhibits the properties of both fluids and solids (this is a topic we thrashed out a while back -- a year or so ago?), but falls into neither group. It's a substance all its own (as if we didn't know that). > For this reason, tapping, running, sawing et al, have very little > effect on the glass once it has been finished I disagree with that, too. Stresses can be (and often are) introduced to glass after it has been perfectly annealed and is otherwise stable. > THIS is the reason that we need to consider REINFORCEMENT of our > panels (the larger, the more essential!) to be the TRUE mark of the > PROFESSIONAL glass artist Sorry, I'm going to be disagreeable again: reinforcement serves the purpose of defeating the effect of gravity on the lead* and the rest of the structure. If the structure sags (and it will, despite reinforcement even, although reinforcement will greatly *slow the effect of gravity), the glass will begin breaking. Even non-L shapes. Albert * or copper ... or brass, zinc ... whatever ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 15:04:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:32:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stmassociates.com!shigbee From: "Shari Higbee" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Taxes done :-) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:40:36 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.74036.0> Precedence: bulk We are having a live "gunman shooting innocent people in downtown Salt Lake City" incident going on right now. I'm guessing the gunman had a tax surprise similar to our $9K... Now would not be the best time to put a gun in my hands, in case anyone was going to offer... In fact, sharp objects (like glass) should be kept away for awhile too. Steve--at least you came out "lunch" ahead! Good for you! Shari in exciting but bloody SLC > The great but greedy state of California got >all but $3 of my federal refund. > >I'm ready to party anyhow. Do the Canadian and British bungians have a >similar day to commemorate the thrill of victory or the agony of defeat? > >Steve > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 15:22:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:46:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: NG Well, I guess that I have angered the Bungi GODS Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:32:48 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.63248.0> Precedence: bulk Sorry to all those who thought that they were on a JOKE/Personal Mass Mailing list. I was following the Albert malediction thread, and thought that I might go surfing for some material on the subject of the thread, and decided to just post to the list. I forgot/neglected to preface the subject with NG for Non-Glass, and perturbed/angered/spammed the ones on Bungi who are here for Glass Information/Discussion Only. Will try to remember the NG, and if some have kill filtered me, well, I guess that it happens,,, ;-) Personally, I enjoy the NG discussion that goes on. I guess that it might be because perhaps I might be thought as someone without a life, at least not the life that I once had, or perhaps thought I had, a lot of them thoughts are missing now. Working on a new Butterfly, got a whole bunch of pieces, it's looking pretty !!! Also, working on a new section for the church website "Kid's Corner", playing with them PhotoShop filters, making some colorful links!!! Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 15:34:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:46:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Jeff Eckes" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: L shaped cuts Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:19:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.121920.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Jeff Eckes" >1. Those who say that a "L" shaped cut WILL eventually fracture are wron= g< No one said they *WILL fracture, Jeff. But most pros agree that = there is a much much greater risk and, therefore, a concientious (and probably older!) artist might be inclined to create a good design that does not rely on Tour de Force cuts. The gist of this thread usually boils down to this: if you can't make the cut by hand, you're probably better off not "getting away with it" using a saw especially if it's commission work. Unless, of course, = you're trying to drum up repair work on an unsuspecting public! ;-D That's a whole 'nother thread. Welcome aboard to bungi. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 16:01:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:22:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: All in one (making bungi safe for the timid) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:19:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.13199.0> Precedence: bulk (1) My husband is soldering. Pavarotti is blaring out of the workroom CD player is how I can tell...Well, I have soldering to do, too, but I guess I have to wait my turn. Maybe I'll design, or cut, or goof off... (2) I feel quite righteous. My taxes were mailed April 13. I needed caffeine rather than alcohol. I'm getting a small federal return, which means my withholding worked out about right. (3) But I've already spent it. I'm going to the Olympic Penisula (near Seattle WA) at the end of May for a family party and bit of vacation. I wonder if my family would like to see Spectrum? (Note to people in southern New England...I saved $400 by flying out of Providence rather than Hartford!) (4) I have to start writing on my SASE's to craft fairs which fair it was. I just got an envelope back with NOTHING but my pictures in it, and no return address, either. postmarked from a town in which I have never applied for a show! Fortunately, not too many envelopes out there right now, and I just got my bank statement and know what checks have been cashed. (5) I have 3 craft fairs in 7 days in May (not the week I'm gone, so I guess I can't tell my husband to do them without me...) Sunday, Friday, Saturday.... so I really do need to solder. Or cut. Or design. Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 16:10:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:08:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Northernlights (Tracy Reitmann)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: horizontal support Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:07:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.1374.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Northernlights (Tracy Reitmann)" >I don't know that I've ever heard any kind of "rule of thumb" on support, just basically "use your own best judgment." Does anyone have any thoughts on this? < Hi Tracy- I think you got caught in the "we-just-had-that-thread" trap! There should be quite a bit of stuff recently in the archives.... but, here's what we do/ to make it easier for you: The AIA recommends (used to anyway, haven't checked in a while) reinforcing windows on anything over 14 perimeter feet. Now, keep in mind that your design will also dictate reinforcement/support bars. If you have a very narrow window with one horizontal line right smack in the middle, might be wise to do something to keep the window from folding in half! If the window is a very organic design, and especially if it is installed against existing glazing, you'll probably be okay. Use some Strongline if you're feeling insecure about it.... it's been our experience that windows are often over-built. And remember, if you're adding bar support/rebar, those bars will extend into the window frame to support the S.G. Don't just add rebar and leave it hanging there thinking you're adding = strength when all you've really done is add weight. Some of = you may shake your heads and laugh.... but, we've seen it happen. Does that help? Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 16:20:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:08:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: NG Bungians and their Maledictions, was RE: Albert taken to task Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:07:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.1377.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:daver!one.net!kleeman@localhost >i think next year we should all send out income taxes in frames in stain= ed glass......at least we would get their attention... debbie < Yikes, I spend enough time on this stuff already.... I say it's time for a flat tax so I can spend the time doing some real work! I bet I spend at least 100 hours a year on accounting just so I can file a tax return.... how many more stained glass windows could I make in that time? Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 16:32:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:08:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG - Preacher's kids Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:39:05 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.6395.0> References: <<1999Apr16.6733.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk <> naaaah....I grew up Jewish and converted to christianity as an adult...from what I have heard from friends who grew up Catholic, well, the Catholics have truly cornered the market on guilt...perhaps this is why Catholic priests do not marry....to prevent that intense concentration of guilt......LOL.... Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 16:36:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:33:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: L shaped cuts Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:40:16 +0000 Message-ID: <199904152232.SAA08168@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > > > I've never heard anyone say anything about that...I always > > > thought if if you could get it...well then, YEEEEEHAAAAA! > > "Nope," he said as laconically as Jimmy Stewart. > lol, Albert! Just Nope? > Nope, it wont crack, or nope it wont keep? Well, as Jeff pointed out (correctly) a while ago, glass wants to be cut in certain ways true to its nature and while you *can force the issue, shapes inimical to its nature are "accidents" waiting to happen; they're more likely to fail than properly shaped pieces. And as Dani pointed out, anything any craftsperson makes and sells carries with it an implied warranty (not to mention a sense of personal responsibility) that the work will outlast the client (and the craftsperson). So, while a "daring" cut is impressive (though less so when a saw is used), it's not "ethical" in the sense that it's not true to the material. I know, I know ... someone's going to say that Frank Lloyd Wright used L-shaped pieces. So? He also built houses that leaked and, when the clients pointed that out, he suggested moving the furniture. Point! Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 17:05:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:10:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!dankarney From: "dan karney" To: "Bungi list" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: NG - First MBTI Letters, then Sun signs, now PKs'? Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:52:56 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.135256.0> Precedence: bulk This lurker can't resist signing in as another PK (preacher's kid). dk in PA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 17:14:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:25:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: clientside-viennasys.com!sfairbairn From: Steve Fairbairn To: 'Stained Glass Mailing List' Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Do you want less bungi messages? Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:22:49 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.82249.0> Precedence: bulk >From Outlook, click on the Tools menu, then click Rules Wizard. Steve The trouble with being in the rat race is that even if you win, you're still a rat. - Lily Tomlin -----Original Message----- From: K See [mailto:kseeglass@netzero.net] Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 2:58 PM To: Steve Fairbairn Subject: Re: Do you want less bungi messages? This sounds good. Where do I find Rules Wizard? K See Art is the only way to run away without leaving home. Twyla Tharp ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Fairbairn To: 'Stained Glass Mailing List' Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 4:18 PM Subject: RE: Do you want less bungi messages? | If you are using Outlook or Exchange to read email, you can use your | Rules Wizard to search for strings in the message for sorting purposes. | I have a rule configured to search for 'bunji.com' in the body of the | message. If it finds the string, it dumps the message into my Bunji | folder. | | Steve | | -----Original Message----- | From: Jeff Eckes [mailto:glassgiraffe@earthlink.net] | Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 10:43 AM | To: glass@bungi.com | Subject: RE: Do you want less bungi messages? | | I have a question for the list momma, | | Can you configure the list so that it always comes | "from" glass@bunji.com ? | If you could it would be a MAJOR boon to thise of us who | configure our mail | clients to 'dump' mailings from different lists directly | into a separate | file. As it is now, I need to go through all the mail | and separate out the | bunji stuff. If you need some info on configuration, | please feel free to | email me. :) | | Jeff Eckes | | | | | -----Original Message----- | From: Daniel M. German [mailto:dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca] | Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 7:42 PM | To: glass@bungi.com | Subject: Do you want less bungi messages? | | | | For some time I have being reading one or two messages a | day with the | collection of the messages posted during it ("digest" | version of | bungi). I configure this list to avoid to deal with | every single | message. Since the configuration is done already, and | working, anybody | who wants can try it. | | If you want to receive it, send a message to | majordomo@csgrs6k1.uwaterloo.ca | | In the body of the message write: | | subscribe bungi-digest
| | where
is your email address. | | | | Messages are sent at 24:00, every day. Or more often if | there are many | postings. | | dmg | | | -- | Daniel M. German | http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html | dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca | | | ---- | For subscription changes, please mail to: | glass-request@bungi.com | To send to the list, please mail to: | glass@bungi.com | Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass | | ---- | For subscription changes, please mail to: | glass-request@bungi.com | To send to the list, please mail to: | glass@bungi.com | Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass | ---- | For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com | To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com | Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass | ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 17:53:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:11:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Taxes done :-) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:10:07 -0700 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990415161007.009f06a0@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> References: <<1999Apr15.74036.0>> Precedence: bulk At 01:40 PM 4/15/99 -0600, you wrote: >We are having a live "gunman shooting innocent people in downtown Salt Lake >City" incident going on right now. I'm guessing the gunman had a tax >surprise similar to our $9K... Now would not be the best time to put a gun >in my hands, in case anyone was going to offer... In fact, sharp objects >(like glass) should be kept away for awhile too. > >Steve--at least you came out "lunch" ahead! Good for you! > >Shari in exciting but bloody SLC > > >> >The great but greedy state of California got >>all but $3 of my federal refund. >> >>I'm ready to party anyhow. Do the Canadian and British bungians have a >>similar day to commemorate the thrill of victory or the agony of defeat? >> >>Steve >> Shari...you haven't been to California for a while, I guess. Three bucks here barely covers the cafe latte! Keep your head down. Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 18:06:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:41:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mindspring.com!pigznpawz From: "Jerri" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: L-shaped cuts Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:38:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.143847.0> Precedence: bulk I keep wondering why my posts don't show up. Maybe if I sent them to the group instead of the individual. Now there's a plan! Sorry Suzanne! Here's what I thought I sent: Now I'm worried about gifts I"ve given in the past! Perhaps the receipients have been to nice to tell me they broke. Are there any "rules of thumb" for cutting without stress fractures? What about c-type cuts? I did a panel a few years ago from the *Simply Flowers* book by Suzanne Cooper. It was two tulips, and there was a piece that was long and skinny, sort in the middle of the piece, and then it widened back out. (Hard to describe, but it's the orange tulip with the yellow bud on my panel's page if you want to see what I'm talking about: www.mindspring.com/~roey ) The piece I'm talking about is on the left between the border and the tulip leaf. I was using stipple glass for the background, so I thought it was just me, but it wasn't until I broke three pieces that I noticed that the pattern had that piece as one, but in the photo of a completed panel, it was TWO pieces. Argh! What about it? Any guidelines for what will stress fracture? Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 18:36:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:47:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "Dani Greer" , Subject: Re: NG Bungians and their Maledictions, was RE: Albert taken to task Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:44:52 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.154452.0> Precedence: bulk I agree flat tax or national sales tax. Something other than what the IRS does now would be an improvement. But at 53 I don't think I am going to live to see the change. Linda Jo -----Original Message----- From: Dani Greer To: glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, April 15, 1999 7:22 PM Subject: RE: NG Bungians and their Maledictions, was RE: Albert taken to task >Message text written by INTERNET:daver!one.net!kleeman@localhost >>i think next year we should all send out income taxes in frames in stain= >ed > >glass......at least we would get their attention... >debbie >< > >Yikes, I spend enough time on this stuff already.... I say it's time >for a flat tax so I can spend the time doing some real work! I >bet I spend at least 100 hours a year on accounting just so I >can file a tax return.... how many more stained glass windows >could I make in that time? > >Best, > >Dani Greer >Greer Gallery & Studios >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 20:38:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:26:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NG Bio count Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:27:38 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.162738.0> Precedence: bulk ssshhhh ..... Let sleeping wet Old English Sheepdogs lie LOL -----Original Message----- From: daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@mail.n-link.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, April 15, 1999 1:06 PM Subject: RE: NG Bio count > Ask not do we feel charitable, ask when has Toby been fed >last. > > Vic M. > Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com > > Are we feeling mellow and charitable enough to let this >count toward > Patrick's weekly quota of bios? I say, why not? he's been >working overtime > rehearsing in case we need that singing telegram....... > > > Sparks > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: >glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 21:09:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:02:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Steve Fairbairn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: Do you want less bungi messages? Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:42:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.184254.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Steve Fairbairn >search for 'bunji.com'< but, be sure and spell it right, or you won't get far.... bungi.com Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 21:25:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:03:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Albert Lewis" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: L shaped cuts Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:43:01 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.18431.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Albert Lewis" > So, while a "daring" cut is impressive (though less so when a saw is = used), it's not "ethical" in the sense that it's not true to the = material. I know, I know ... someone's going to say that Frank Lloyd = Wright used L-shaped pieces. So? He also built houses that leaked = and, when the clients pointed that out, he suggested moving the = furniture. Point! < Two points, I say! Best, Dani ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 22:06:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:47:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: "I still wanna join" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:45:49 -0700 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Thanks, Albert, I've just wrote to Christie asking for the form to be sent snail mail. This feels very good and I shall feel very proud to be part of a group that bonds to the love for glass that I've had and will have for a long time coming. I did do this open forum and hope that I've not stepped on any toes. Many thanks again, Cindy > >> Well I'll be darned:) maledictions...I just learnt a new word, > >> yes I still wanna join...where do I send my cheque?...while I still >> have some money:)..aka: starving artist. > >Hi, Cindy. > >Since you asked this in the open forum (if I'm reading the header >correctly) I'll answer you and anyone else who's interested. Joining >the Guild is a Good Thing. To read about the benefits, see >http://www.igga.org/benefits.htm Be sure to notice that a >subscription to Common Ground: Glass can be ordered separately from >membership, but that the subscription is *included in membership at >whatever leve you might choose. There are links from there to the >application form, which shouldn't be considered some way of >separating wheat from chaff ... or "artists" from "hobbyists." The >Guild terms everyone who works with glass either "artist" or >"craftsperson" and makes no judgements on experience or quality of >work. All are welcome, as the little medium in Poltergeist puts it, >although the spirits in the Guild's case are all living. > >Glad to hear you love words; so do I. A malediction is a curse; its >corollary is a benediction ... a blessing. Language is cool. > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 22:17:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:05:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: NG Well, I guess that I have angered the Bungi GODS Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:02:10 -0700 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk My Dear BUD, You have to be jesting:) seems to me that you have an extremely full life and I for one sit back and take note! BUT...I have to agree, at first the idea of filtering Cindy seemed very RUDE:) And I almost died from the thought:):):) PLEASE keep up the good work and let us know!! Cindy:) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 22:28:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:45:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Bud Britt" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: NG Well, I guess that I have angered the Bungi GODS Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:42:58 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.184258.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Bud Britt" >f some have kill filtered me< If they did, they're missing out on a lot of smiles and it's their loss.... I for one hope you share your wonderful self on bungi for a long time, Bud. Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 15 22:37:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:28:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Jerri" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: L-shaped cuts Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 00:00:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr15.20015.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Jerri" >What about it? Any guidelines for what will stress fracture?< Anything with a deep *inside curve (much less an angle!) has a greater risk of fracturing from stress. And, of course, long skinny pieces, although that probably less from stress than = lack of strength.... Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 06:18:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 05:07:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: All in one (making bungi safe for the timid) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:06:09 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr16.1269.0> Precedence: bulk Dorothy's enquiring mind wants to know: >I wonder if my family would like to see Spectrum? Why not? My son (who has zero interest in glass in general) thought the Chihuly exhibit was pretty cool, had a lot of questions about "how do they do that?" and was fascinated by the video that was playing. Drag the whole family along and let the glass work its magic! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 06:53:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 05:39:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Reinforcement/overbuilt? Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:37:38 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr16.123738.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/15/99 7:12:02 PM, GreerStudios@compuserve.com writes: >it's been our experience that windows are often over-built. I had to laugh at this one. It reminded me of the first original design I ever made, a free-hanging semi-abstract sunburst in a square about a foot across. About 80 pieces, lots of solder lines, and I Re-Stripped the heck out of the thing internally and put Re-Strip all the way around the outside, because the sun's rays extended beyond the square "frame" and I was taking no chances on one of those points breaking off if the thing got bumped. Since then the piece has been bumped any number of times and once I even dropped it on the floor, and it's still intact - but what a lot of work! When I put the next one together I'm going to leave out all the internal reinforcement and just Re-Strip the outside to protect the points. CCW "suspenders and belt and carrying a piece of rope just in case" Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 07:26:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 05:59:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Memory is failing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:58:52 +0000 Message-ID: <199904161300.NAA24999@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hi Candy, Hi all, I gather that sending chemicals like that is deeply frowned on a) by the postal authorities and b) by Customs 'n Excise people. Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK > Grate polish?? I want some!! > > How about going thru the mail? You can get it thru by stating that it's a 'gift'... > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 07:55:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 06:00:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Long Beach show in June Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:58:52 +0000 Message-ID: <199904161300.NAA24996@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Steve, might you hang around long enough in USA for you and I to catch up with each other?? That would be fun! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK As it is just possible > that I may be coming to USofA this summer, perhaps someone could give me > more information on this exhibition. > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 07:59:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 06:00:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: L-shaped cuts Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:58:22 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.45822.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Jerri" >What about it? Any guidelines for what will stress fracture?< Got nailed it when you noticed that any piece which has a narrow part in the middle will invariably break right at the skinniest part. Perfect example of stress fractures just waiting to happen. Even if you manage to cut that type of shape out, foil it, place it into the panel, solder it, frame it, etc., sure as you bleed when cut, that piece will eventually break due to the stresses inherant in it. Moral of the story...beware of pieces with skinny mid-sections, and beware of L-shaped pieces. C-shaped pieces are less likely to have fatal stress fractures, since the stress is more evenly distributed along the curve, rather than concentrated in the bend of the "L". Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 08:29:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 06:00:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: horizontal support Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:58:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.45812.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Dani Greer >And remember, if you're adding bar support/rebar, those bars will extend into the window frame to support the S.G. Don't just add rebar and leave it hanging there thinking you're adding strength when all you've really done is add weight. Some of you may shake your heads and laugh.... but, we've seen it happen.< I recently saw a prime example of this sort of very poor support. This is in a recently-built TGI Friday's restaurant in my town of North Wales. It has a wanking* large circular window (maybe 5' across) with lots of jewels and heavy opaque glass in the Victorian style. Has about 7 heavy horizontal steel support bars across it. Unfortunately, none of the steel bars goes into the window frame. They stop just short of the frame. I thought about leaving my business card with the manager for future repairs. Maybe I'll do that anyway, as they also have tons of stained glass lamps, many of which will be subject to the wear & tear of a public bar scene. *for those of you who need an explanation of the Commonwealth term, "wanking", let's say it's a ?mild? expletive used as a descriptor when you are astonished at something. Learned it on my 2-year stay in New Zealand.* Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 12:17:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 06:00:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: horizontal support Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:58:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.45812.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Dani Greer >And remember, if you're adding bar support/rebar, those bars will extend into the window frame to support the S.G. Don't just add rebar and leave it hanging there thinking you're adding strength when all you've really done is add weight. Some of you may shake your heads and laugh.... but, we've seen it happen.< I recently saw a prime example of this sort of very poor support. This is in a recently-built TGI Friday's restaurant in my town of North Wales. It has a wanking* large circular window (maybe 5' across) with lots of jewels and heavy opaque glass in the Victorian style. Has about 7 heavy horizontal steel support bars across it. Unfortunately, none of the steel bars goes into the window frame. They stop just short of the frame. I thought about leaving my business card with the manager for future repairs. Maybe I'll do that anyway, as they also have tons of stained glass lamps, many of which will be subject to the wear & tear of a public bar scene. *for those of you who need an explanation of the Commonwealth term, "wanking", let's say it's a ?mild? expletive used as a descriptor when you are astonished at something. Learned it on my 2-year stay in New Zealand.* Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 13:04:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 06:00:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Albert taken to task Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:58:52 +0000 Message-ID: <199904161300.NAA24967@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hello Albert and other friends, I will most gladly join in the chorus in support of Albert. A nicer guy on line is hard to find, especially when it's combined with such a lovely sense of humour and fun. Thanks Albert!! Just keep it coming! I for one will be more determined than ever to come over clutching my subscription in my little hands to join the IGGA for a few years (seeing since I s t i l l do not possess credit/charge cards!). That's what I was referring to a while back now to you off-group. So don't worry about declining membership because of some disgruntled "person".... you lose some, but you also win some..... Take care now! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK (terribly behind in catching up on "things-to-do") > Albert said > received a message this morning berating me for my language > (presumedly "bad") and attitude (ditto) in my recent comments > regarding the phantom poster who chided Sparks for posting more than > one message day. > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 13:05:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 06:00:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: stove blacking Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:58:52 +0000 Message-ID: <199904161300.NAA24982@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hi All, Yes Carol, that sounds like the stuff! I never use patina on lead, only Zebrite/Zebo and brush it in with a soft large shoebrush, which then also polishes up the glass a treat. The only difficulty I experience is when the glass has small "pitmarks" or irregularities. The Zebo gets stuck in there and I have to flush it out with white spirit or methylated spirit. Sometimes I cover up such irregularities with a strip of masking tape to prevent the polish getting in there in the first place. I have never found it hard work, but rather very satisfying. Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK >>. I said at the time of my original posting, that I was quite > >sure that you Over There (in USA) must surely have an equivalent > >old-fashioned stove polish that lead-workers traditionally use. > Carol Swann wrote: > I have a jar of stove blacking that I use on my woodstove to keep it nice > and shiny (also stops it from rusting in the summer when the dog comes in > covered with salt water and shakes in front of it). > > Bought it at my local hardware store...it's easy to find. > > Never thought about using it in stained glass though...would it replace > black patina on copper foil work? all the elbow grease that produces a black > patina on lead came? > > check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: > http://come.to/The_E-Tour > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 13:11:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 06:45:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!tifstyorig From: Diane W Manchester To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Oceana Glass Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:45:43 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.54543.0> Precedence: bulk Our wholesale glass supplier does not carry Oceana glass (the company located in Soquel/Santa Cruz area). I am traveling to the area in June and wondered if any bungi members from Calif. (ie., Glenna or Steve W.) have ever visited the factory? Do they offer tours or sell glass from the factory? Would it be possible to go to Oceana in person? Just thought it would be fun! Thanks, Diane Manchester Tiffany Styled Originals Carthage, NC ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 13:34:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 06:22:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!tifstyorig From: Diane W Manchester To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: NG-Funny Dream! Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:23:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.52333.0> Precedence: bulk I woke up with a chuckle in my mind that I thought I'd share. Last night I had a dream that I was finishing a copper foil panel and learned (in my dream) that chewing tobacco could be rubbed on the solder lines to achieve a strong, black patina. Then I thought of the stove-blackening stuff that you all have been talking about and wondered if you could use that to rub on the solder lines to get a patina? And on my thoughts wondered to what other materials could be used to "rub" on a patina besides the usual chemicals??!! Now that I'm awake from the dream.....I almost feel inspired to give the chewing tobacco a try. :>) Diane Manchester Tiffany Styled Originals Carthage, NC ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 13:35:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:39:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: socent.org!atf From: "ATF Distribution Center-K. See" To: bungi , "glass@intrastar.net" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Bead site Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:38:13 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.63813.0> Organization: SOC Enterprises Precedence: bulk http://www.mazeltovjewelry.com/main_gallery.htm just found this neat site on beads ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 13:42:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:21:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: "I still wanna join" Date: Fri Apr 16 07:20:43 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.45843.0> Organization: Taylor'd Expressions Precedence: bulk Cindy welcome aboard! hope you find it as informative and rewarding as i have! debbie debbie jo taylor kleeman@one.net http://www.taylordexpressions.com your complete stained glass supply source 1-888-488-9616 On Thursday, April 15, 1999 11:46 PM, Cindy Pesonen [SMTP:cpesonen@uniserve.com] wrote: > Thanks, Albert, > I've just wrote to Christie asking for the form to be sent snail mail. > This feels very good and I shall feel very proud to be part of a group > that > bonds to the love for glass that I've had and will have for a long time > coming. > I did do this open forum and hope that I've not stepped on any toes. > Many thanks again, Cindy > > > > >> Well I'll be darned:) maledictions...I just learnt a new word, > > > >> yes I still wanna join...where do I send my cheque?...while I still > >> have some money:)..aka: starving artist. > > > >Hi, Cindy. > > > >Since you asked this in the open forum (if I'm reading the header > >correctly) I'll answer you and anyone else who's interested. Joining > >the Guild is a Good Thing. To read about the benefits, see > >http://www.igga.org/benefits.htm Be sure to notice that a > >subscription to Common Ground: Glass can be ordered separately from > >membership, but that the subscription is *included in membership at > >whatever leve you might choose. There are links from there to the > >application form, which shouldn't be considered some way of > >separating wheat from chaff ... or "artists" from "hobbyists." The > >Guild terms everyone who works with glass either "artist" or > >"craftsperson" and makes no judgements on experience or quality of > >work. All are welcome, as the little medium in Poltergeist puts it, > >although the spirits in the Guild's case are all living. > > > >Glad to hear you love words; so do I. A malediction is a curse; its > >corollary is a benediction ... a blessing. Language is cool. > > > >Albert > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 13:52:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:11:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: L shaped cuts /now different ones Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:10:34 -0700 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Hi guys, I've seen this quite often in others works and looks impressive BUT...(let's see if I can describ it, grin). Take a piece of glass and I *assume* saw a line into it, wide enough to insert a strip of lead came. (The line doesn't exit anywhere on the glass.) To me this seems scary...and is asking alot out of the glass. Cindy...who doesn't own a saw...(thinks they are kinda neat BUT doubt that I would ever buy one.) > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 13:57:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:13:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: (Fwd) Assistance Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:03:05 +0000 Message-ID: <199904161455.KAA20922@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk Anyone have an answer for this person? Might as well answer on the forum, so everyone else has the answer, too. Thanks! -- Albert ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: Farmhs1@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:45:26 EDT Subject: Assistance To: alewis@adelphia.net Reply-to: Farmhs1@aol.com I would appreciate some help in locating Black Creek Enterprises. I have seen their ads in Glass Patterns Q, however, there is no phone #, address, etc. I have made a fused piece that would look wonderful in one of their frames. Also, do you know of any other companies making mounting frames like theirs ? I would appreciate any assistance you can offer. Thank You, Susan Slack Farmhouse Creations Farmhs 1@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 14:01:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:15:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bellatlantic.net!elsiemt From: elsie turqman To: glass Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------0062575AE1DFB760BF244CF1" Subject: NG something to think about Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:19:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.61914.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0062575AE1DFB760BF244CF1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Two men, both seriously ill, occupied the same hospital room. One > > man was allowed to sit up in his bed for an hour each afternoon to > > help drain the fluid from his lungs. His bed was next to the room's > only > > window. > > > > The other man had to spend all his time flat on his back. > > > > The men talked for hours on end. They spoke of their wives and > families, their homes, their jobs, their involvement in the military > service, where they had been on vacation. And every afternoon when > > the man in the bed by the window could sit up, he would pass the time > > by describing to his roommate all the things he could see outside the > > window. > > > > The man in the other bed began to live for those one-hour periods > > where his world would be broadened and enlivened by all the activity > > and color of the world outside. The window overlooked a park with a > > lovely lake. Ducks and swans played on the water while children sailed > their > > model boats. Young lovers walked arm in arm amidst flowers of every > > color of the rainbow. Grand old trees graced the landscape, and a fine > view > > of the city skyline could be seen in the distance. As the man by the > > window described all this in exquisite detail, the man on the other > > side of the room would close his eyes and imagine the picturesque > scene. > > > > One warm afternoon the man by the window described a parade passing > > by. Although the other man couldn't hear the band -he could see it in > > his mind's eye as the gentleman by the window portrayed it with > > descriptive words. > > > > Days and weeks passed. One morning, the day nurse arrived to bring > > water for their baths only to find the lifeless body of the man by the > > window,who had died peacefully in his sleep. She was saddened and > > called the hospital attendants to take the body away. As soon as it > seemed > > appropriate, the other man asked if he could be moved next to the > > window. > > The nurse was happy to make the switch, and after making sure he was > > comfortable, she left him alone. Slowly, painfully, he propped himself > up > > on one elbow to take his first look at the world outside. > > > > Finally, he would have the joy of seeing it for himself. He strained > > to slowly turn to look out the window beside the bed. It faced a blank > > wall. > > The man asked the nurse what could have compelled his deceased > > roommate who had described such wonderful things outside this window. > > The nurse responded that the man was blind and could not even see the > wall. She said, > > "Perhaps he just wanted to encourage you." > > Epilogue. . . .There is tremendous happiness in making others happy, > > despite our own situations. Shared grief is half the sorrow, but > > happiness when shared, is doubled. If you want to feel rich, just count > all of the things you have that money can't buy. "Today is a gift, > that's why it > > is called the present." > > > > To realize the value of one year: > > Ask a student who has failed a final exam. > > > > To realize the value of one month: > > Ask a mother who has given birth to a premature baby. > > > > To realize the value of one week: > > Ask an editor of a weekly newspaper. > > > > To realize the value of one hour: > > Ask the lovers who are waiting to meet. > > > > To realize the value of one minute: > > Ask a person who has missed the train, bus or plane. > > > > To realize the value of one second: > > Ask a person who has survived an accident. > > To realize the value of one millisecond: > > Ask the person who has won a silver medal in the Olympics. > > > > Time waits for no one. Treasure every moment you have. You will > > treasure it even more when you can share it with someone special. > > > > The origin of this letter is unknown, but it brings good luck to > > everyone who passes it on. Forward it to five of your friends to > > whom you wish good luck. You will see that something good happens to > > you four days from now. > > --------- End forwarded message ---------- > > --------------0062575AE1DFB760BF244CF1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail4.bellatlantic.net ([151.197.0.38]) by immta1.bellatlantic.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with ESMTP id <19990414182241.SKSP22870@mail4.bellatlantic.net> for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:22:41 -0400 Received: from m14.boston.juno.com (m14.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.193]) by mail4.bellatlantic.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00068 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:22:37 -0500 (EST) Received: (from ftj1@juno.com) by m14.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D77ELHRV; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:15:36 EDT To: pjahacich@ucnsb.net, jdavern@juno.com, BVL1@worldnet.att.net, CSTONE@ICANECT.NET, HPJG47A@PRODIGY.COM, JIMDUNTON@PRODIGY.COM, ELSIEMT@BELLATLANTIC.NET, Hester@Bard.edu, Ruthb33@Prodigy.net, nassidaj@earthlink.net, BBeamon@worldnet.att.net, rkgrant1@juno.com Cc: bgaylog@bestweb.net, charval@juno.com Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:10:00 -0400 Subject: A good story! Message-ID: <19990414.141352.16670.9.ftj1@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-17,19-20,22-24,26-35,37-40,42-56,58-91 From: Fred T Johnson > Two men, both seriously ill, occupied the same hospital room. One > man was allowed to sit up in his bed for an hour each afternoon to > help drain the fluid from his lungs. His bed was next to the room's only > window. > > The other man had to spend all his time flat on his back. > > The men talked for hours on end. They spoke of their wives and families, their homes, their jobs, their involvement in the military service, where they had been on vacation. And every afternoon when > the man in the bed by the window could sit up, he would pass the time > by describing to his roommate all the things he could see outside the > window. > > The man in the other bed began to live for those one-hour periods > where his world would be broadened and enlivened by all the activity > and color of the world outside. The window overlooked a park with a > lovely lake. Ducks and swans played on the water while children sailed their > model boats. Young lovers walked arm in arm amidst flowers of every > color of the rainbow. Grand old trees graced the landscape, and a fine view > of the city skyline could be seen in the distance. As the man by the > window described all this in exquisite detail, the man on the other > side of the room would close his eyes and imagine the picturesque scene. > > One warm afternoon the man by the window described a parade passing > by. Although the other man couldn't hear the band -he could see it in > his mind's eye as the gentleman by the window portrayed it with > descriptive words. > > Days and weeks passed. One morning, the day nurse arrived to bring > water for their baths only to find the lifeless body of the man by the > window,who had died peacefully in his sleep. She was saddened and > called the hospital attendants to take the body away. As soon as it seemed > appropriate, the other man asked if he could be moved next to the > window. > The nurse was happy to make the switch, and after making sure he was > comfortable, she left him alone. Slowly, painfully, he propped himself up > on one elbow to take his first look at the world outside. > > Finally, he would have the joy of seeing it for himself. He strained > to slowly turn to look out the window beside the bed. It faced a blank > wall. > The man asked the nurse what could have compelled his deceased > roommate who had described such wonderful things outside this window. The nurse responded that the man was blind and could not even see the wall. She said, > "Perhaps he just wanted to encourage you." > Epilogue. . . .There is tremendous happiness in making others happy, > despite our own situations. Shared grief is half the sorrow, but > happiness when shared, is doubled. If you want to feel rich, just count all of the things you have that money can't buy. "Today is a gift, that's why it > is called the present." > > To realize the value of one year: > Ask a student who has failed a final exam. > > To realize the value of one month: > Ask a mother who has given birth to a premature baby. > > To realize the value of one week: > Ask an editor of a weekly newspaper. > > To realize the value of one hour: > Ask the lovers who are waiting to meet. > > To realize the value of one minute: > Ask a person who has missed the train, bus or plane. > > To realize the value of one second: > Ask a person who has survived an accident. > To realize the value of one millisecond: > Ask the person who has won a silver medal in the Olympics. > > Time waits for no one. Treasure every moment you have. You will > treasure it even more when you can share it with someone special. > > The origin of this letter is unknown, but it brings good luck to > everyone who passes it on. Forward it to five of your friends to > whom you wish good luck. You will see that something good happens to > you four days from now. --------- End forwarded message ---------- ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] --------------0062575AE1DFB760BF244CF1-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 14:07:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:18:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ezl.com!stepsue From: Sue Prullage To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: craft booth Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:00:41 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.4041.0> Organization: stainedglassdesign.com Precedence: bulk To all you crafters, can you help me. I contacted a carpenter to draw up a design that would work as a booth for inside and outside craft fairs. I wanted it mobile about 60 inches across and 48 inches tall and would fold. I thought I might need a couple of these, maybe even three until the price was quoted. The price came in at $400.00. Did you all really spend that kind of money on your booth. If not how did you design it? any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks Sue P ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 14:12:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:29:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: NG - First MBTI Letters, then Sun signs, now PKs'? Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:55:34 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <199904161457.JAA02153@relay.acns.nwu.edu> Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk My husband got a double whammy. A PK and a Navy brat! (Dad was a chaplain.) Kaye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 14:31:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:41:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Reinforcement/overbuilt? Date: Fri Apr 16 10:41:01 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.8191.0> Precedence: bulk Just what Jethro MacGregor the Gnomonator needs Vic M. Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com CCW "suspenders and belt and carrying a piece of rope just in case" Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 14:34:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:26:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: L shaped cuts Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:18:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.101826.0> References: <<199904152020.QAA05436@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk Hmmmm...interesting points here Albert. Some thoughts... >>> KEEP THIS IN MIND: glass is a FLUID which is usually encountered in > its frozen state (on the planet Mercury it would be liquid, like > mercury is solid on this planet but not on Neptune. But this I disagree with. Glass exhibits the properties of both fluids and solids (this is a topic we thrashed out a while back -- a year or so ago?), but falls into neither group. It's a substance all its own (as if we didn't know that).<<< The BEST comparison I can see is that of ice to glass. I don't think that ANYONE would call ice anything but a 'fluid'. Webster's Unabridged Dictionary defines a 'fluid' this way: "Any substance that can flow" and "Able to move and change shape without separating..." Now to be fair, it ALSO calls it a 'liquid', so I would say that my statement that glass is a "...fluid in a frozen (or solid) state is as accurate as it gets! The point is that YOU are also correct in saying that it is NEITHER....BUT, it DOES exhibit MORE qualities of a fluid than a solid when working it. How's THAT for REALLY confusing the issue? >>> For this reason, tapping, running, sawing et al, have very little > effect on the glass once it has been finished I disagree with that, too. Stresses can be (and often are) introduced to glass after it has been perfectly annealed and is otherwise stable.<<< THIS you will have to PROVE to me SCIENTIFICALLY Albert. Other than heat stress and the stress incurred internally from construction and installation, I don't see any other possibility for stresses. As I said, "...a piece cut and left on a table for 100 years will be unbroken.." or something to that effect. I stand by this until proven wrong. > THIS is the reason that we need to consider REINFORCEMENT of our > panels (the larger, the more essential!) to be the TRUE mark of the > PROFESSIONAL glass artist Sorry, I'm going to be disagreeable again: reinforcement serves the purpose of defeating the effect of gravity on the lead* and the rest of the structure. If the structure sags (and it will, despite reinforcement even, although reinforcement will greatly *slow the effect of gravity), the glass will begin breaking. Even non-L shapes. Again, I agree with you in principle....to a point. Tell me something, if the panel is HUNG instead of set into a frame, would not you be using gravity to your advantage? Think about this! Our predecessors in glass KNEW this and for all intents HUNG their glass from metal bars! Why have we forgotten how to do this? Those that did not hang their panels suffered the ravages of time, those that did hang them, for the most part, did not. Sooo.... Your point is essentially true! EVENTUALLY the glass will fail. But if effective support (ie. HANGING the panel, even WITHIN an installation) will postpone the inevitable for say 500-1,000 years, have you 'effectively' eliminated the stress problem? I say you have! Albert, this can boil down to such MINOR differences in construction. For instance: one panel with vertical rebar, installed with the panel resting on a sill. Panel one has the rebar extending JUST PAST THE FRAME to the bottom of the sill so that it rests on the REBAR. Panel two has the rebar stop at the edge of the frame (sometimes even cut back at angle to facilitate installation) and rests on the FRAME. Which panel will last longer, with less problems? Panel one. Without a doubt. Panel two does stabilize the PANEL, but panel one actually stabilizes the INSTALLATION by 'hanging' the panel from the rebar! Again, you will need to 'prove' this to me. Sorry to be so contrary, but I HAVE done quite a bit of research on this as well as observation of "successes" and "failures" in the field, as I am sure you have as well. Just 'show me the proof' Peace! Jeff Eckes -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis [mailto:alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net] Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 12:29 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: L shaped cuts ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 15:06:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:26:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: L shaped cuts Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:18:18 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.101818.0> References: <<3.0.6.32.19990415131140.014b1900@atlas2.az.stratus.com>> Precedence: bulk Charles, I believe what you remember is a quote relating to glass a "liquid". Some folks use this instead of 'fluid'. Lokk in a good encyclopedia and you will find that glass is a "...fluid in a solid state..." Not that doesn't confuse the issue even more! Jeff Eckes (by the way, I MEANT to write that mercury was a LIQUID here and a SOLID on Neptune. Sorry) -----Original Message----- From: Charles Spitzer [mailto:charles_spitzer@stratus.com] Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 9:12 AM To: glassgiraffe@earthlink.net Subject: RE: L shaped cuts i believe, in the last couple of years, that i read somewhere that glass is neither fluid or solid, but 'something else'. the reason is that it exhibits properties of both, sometimes at the same time. i don't have a recent url tho that points to this. regards, charlie At 01:43 PM 4/15/99 -0400, you wrote: >I have been following this thread for some time and I have a few comments >(oh nooooo....) then I HAVE TO go do marbles! > >1. Those who say that a "L" shaped cut WILL eventually fracture are wrong >2. Those who say that an "l" shaped cut MAY eventually fracture are correct. > >I have seen 100 year old glass panels with perfectly intact "l" shoped cuts >(and WORSE!) as well as 2 week old panels with the same cut that is cracked >in the obvious place. >It depends as much on how you distribute the internal stresses in a panel as >to what shapes you cut. > >ALSO: if you want to determine what kind of stresses are present in a >particular piece of glass, just use a polariscope to find out (try it on >some of your favorite glass to see if it is annealed properly, you might be >surprised!) the same as if you where fusing. > >KEEP THIS IN MIND: glass is a FLUID which is usually encountered in its >frozen state (on the planet Mercury it would be liquid, like mercury is >solid on this planet but not on Neptune. Truly an issue of perspective, >no?) Therefore most of the dynamics of solid mechanics goes out the window. >Look to FLUID mechanics (hydraulic) for the true skinny on glass. -- Charles Spitzer Stratus Computer, Inc Speaking from Stratus, not for Stratus, Ascend, or Lucent ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 15:15:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:27:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: horizontal support >>myth based on eronious observation<< [here I go again!] Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:18:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.101814.0> References: <<1999Apr15.8136.0>> Precedence: bulk Well here I go again opening my big mouth.... If you really apply some critical thinking to this subject of 'horizontal support', you will realize that what you REALLY need is VERTICAL support! As the old saying goes, "gravity works', and it 'works' forever! Now I know that some of you will say "...but what about all those ancient 30' tall bishopric windows in all the cathedrals with the horizontal bars...?" Well guess what, those windows have NO horizontal support, that's right NONE! The 'horizontal' bars that you find on these windows are actually VERTICAL support! Now before you start throwing the email equivalent of the rotten veggies let me explain. The 'horizontal' bars that are found on these windows are embedded into the masonry of the building BEFORE the windows are installed. Then the windows are literally 'hung' from these bars with wire giving, you guessed it, VERTICAL SUPPORT to said window! Even with the more modern 'fin' system, the MAIN objective is to give VERTICAL support to the window. Now to answer your question more directly.... If you make your windows with AT LEAST a 1/2" ZINC or hard metal border (I prefer 3/4" zinc) you can attach said panel directly to the wood window frame with screws. This works for either a weather barrier type window (you simply cover the screws with putty) OR a window that will be installed in front of a clear glazing (make the panel a little larger). Now think about this. By screwing the panel into the existing frame every 8"-12" you are relieving the stress on the bottom of the window and distributing it THROUHOUT the panel. As you can see, a little critical thought on a subject like this can yield some interesting results. Now for those of you that think I don't know a damn about anything, FLAME AWAY! Jeff Eckes The Glass Giraffe ] "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered...The issuing power [for currency] should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." ` Thomas Jefferson [commenting on privately held central banks like the Bank of England and our Federal Reserve Bank] Subject: horizontal support I'm wondering if my message got buried in people's e-mails.....just in case it did, here it is.... I started designing two long, narrow leaded panels that are going to be hanging side by side -- each one measures 14" x 34.5" . Dutiful me started thinking right away "okay, draw in where the horizontal support's going to go," and then I began to re-think it. I started thinking that at 14" it might be narrow enough that I don't need horizontal support. I don't know that I've ever heard any kind of "rule of thumb" on support, just basically "use your own best judgment." Does anyone have any thoughts on this? The piece is going to be basically geometric, 2" outside border, with 2" square bevels in the corners, next inside border is going to be 1" with 1" square bevels on the inside corners so the area where the design is going to go winds down to 8" x 27.75". I figured I'd better post this before I finally came up with a design I fell in love with only to find out I have to re-draw it with a support line! Thanks! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 15:17:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:28:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: "Ken & Barbara Larie" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Glass Giraffe >>thanks<< Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:18:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.101857.0> References: <<1999Apr15.65059.0>> Precedence: bulk Thank you Barb, ( the check's in the mail) Actually, we did these videos for just this reason. We where tired of the misinformation (not to mention the presentation) of what was available on the market. We do have plans to put out more on specific subjects as soon as we get settled in NY. Thanks again! Jeff Eckes PS any suggestions on what kind of titles we should do, anyone? Keep in mind that our videos are SKILLS BASED, not project based. (for instance: "reinforcement considerations for leaded panels" vs. "How to build a green box") -----Original Message----- From: Ken & Barbara Larie [mailto:columbine@net-port.com] Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 12:51 PM To: Subject: Glass Giraffe Ken and I would like to complement Jeff Eckes and his wife on their videos. We have rented several from the Stained Glass Place in Grand Rapids, MI, and enjoyed them very much. We like the method, as well as the personalities. We thought they were most helpful and informative, much better than others we had looked at. We won't mention any names, as we don't wish to labeled as having a personal problem, or being prejudice, but we are we like that Glass Giraffe guy very much. Thanks. Barb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 15:47:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:35:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: sending Chemicals in the mail Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:24:56 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.102456.0> References: <<199904161300.NAA24999@saturn.nildram.co.uk>> Precedence: bulk If what you are talking about is 'giraffe joos', it can be sent anywhere through the mail. FYI Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Toby [mailto:toby@northlights.co.uk] Sent: Friday, April 16, 1999 9:59 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Memory is failing Hi Candy, Hi all, I gather that sending chemicals like that is deeply frowned on a) by the postal authorities and b) by Customs 'n Excise people. Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK > Grate polish?? I want some!! > > How about going thru the mail? You can get it thru by stating that it's a 'gift'... > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 16:19:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:54:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bardstown.com!glassx From: "Glass Expressions" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Fw: NEA, PBS, NPR Petition Fwd: NEA, PBS, NPR Petition (fwd) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:56:06 +0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.22566.0> Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: Kirk Schlea To: Alexander, Valene ; Amis, AB ; Barnett, Janet ; Berg, Margaret ; Blake, Malcolm ; Brown, Rob ; Carlick, Jeff ; Christopher, Bryan ; Clark, Kathy ; Cullens, Al ; Docekal, Gail ; Drake, Kenneth/Bonnie ; Dwyer, Nadine and Joe ; Fiamengo, Matt/Liv ; Forbes, Joan ; Foxall, Art ; Frankel, Tracy ; Fribush, Dora ; Graybill, Rose ; Greiser, Bob/Georgia/MJ ; Hardin, Gary ; Hetrick, Mary ; Joanne ; Johnson, Diane ; Johnson, Joe/Louise ; Keeler, Karl ; Kittredge, Chris ; Klein, John ; LeMaitre, Jeff/Grace ; Lewis, Kelly ; Marchettoni, Tev ; Marcy, Larry ; Marguccio, David ; McClintock, Jean/John ; McMann, Dan ; Menning, Kathleen ; Moore, Mike ; Nanda, Puneet ; Nordstrom, Deb ; Patronite, Joe ; Patterson, James ; Peabody, Judy ; Pilling, Rich ; Platner, Esther ; Prichard, Aaron ; Reese, Lou ; Richmond, Anita/Rick ; Riise, Joan ; Schlea, Brent ; Scott, Robin/Mark ; Smith, Don ; Snider, Jane ; Sole, Terry ; Steinman, Jay ; Stout, G.G. ; Taylor, Merinda ; Traffis, Brenda ; Tucker, Deb ; Waldman, Linda ; Watts, John/Marilyn ; Wayne, Lauren ; Wellburn, Doug/Sue ; Whitson, Gail Date: Saturday, April 17, 1999 12:49 AM Subject: Fwd: NEA, PBS, NPR Petition Fwd: NEA, PBS, NPR Petition (fwd) >Dear friends, > >I dont' usually forward these things, but I feel this one is >worth it. Please, if you have the time and inclination, pass it >along. Many thanks, Linda > >Subject: NEA, PBS, NPR Petition (fwd) > > >> >> >> On NPR Morning Edition this morning, Nina Tottenberg said that if the Supreme Court supports Congress, it is in effect the end of NEA, the National Endowment for the Arts. > >Then, there's the question of Congressional funding: Funding for NPR/NEA >& PBS. PBS, NPR (National Public Radio), and the arts are facing major >cutbacks in funding. In spite of the efforts of each station to reduce >spending costs and streamline their >services, some government officials believe that the funding currently >going to these programs is too large a portion of funding for something >which is seen as not worthwhile. > >Currently, taxes from the general public for PBS equal $1.12 per person >per year, and the National Endowment for the Arts equals $.64 a year. A >January 1995 CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll indicated that 76% of Americans >wish to keep funding for PBS, third only to national defense and law >enforcement as the most valuable programs for federal funding. > >Each year, the Senate and House Appropriations committees each have 13 >subcommittees with jurisdiction over many programs and agencies. Each >subcommittee passes its own appropriation bill. The goal each year is to >have each bill signed by the beginning of the fiscal year, which is >October 1. > >The only way that our representatives can be aware of the base of >support for PBS and funding for these types of programs is by making our >voices heard. > >Please add your name to this list and forward it to friends who believe >in what this stands for. This list will be forwarded to the President of >the United States, the Vice President of the United States, and >Representative Newt Gingrich, who is the >instigator of the action to cut funding to these worthwhile programs. > >This petition is being passed around the internet. Please add your name >to it so that funding can be maintained for the NEA, NPR & PBS. > >Please keep this petition rolling. Do not reply to me. Please sign and >forward to others to sign. If you prefer not to sign please send to the >e-mail address indicated. This is being forwarded to several people at >once to add their names to the petition. It won't matter if many people >receive the same list as the names are being managed. This is for anyone >who thinks NPR/PBS is a worthwhile expenditure of >$1.12/year of their taxes, a petition follows. > >If you sign, please forward on to others. If not, please don't kill it >- send it to the email address listed here: > >wein2688@blue.univnorthco.edu or >kubi7975@blue.univnorthco.edu > >****If you happen to be the 150th, 200th, 250th, etc. signer >of this petition, please forward a copy to: >wein2688@blue.univnorthco.edu. > >This way we can keep track of the lists and organize them. Forward this >to everyone you know, and help us to keep these programs alive. > >Thank you. > >NOTE: It is preferable that you SELECT the entirety of this letter and >then COPY it into a new outgoing message, rather than simply forwarding >it. In your new outgoing message, add your name to the bottom of the >list, then send it on. Or if option is >available, do a SEND AGAIN. > >>> > 651) Andrea Wickham, New York, NY >>> > >>> > 652) Jessica Wickham, Brooklyn, NY >>> > >>> > 653) Mary H. Lorimer, W Long Branch, NJ >>> > >>> > 654) Janis Jolcuvar, Santa Monica, CA >>> > >>> > 655) Nancy A. Kist, Jersey City, NJ >>> > >>> > 656) Bruce T. Herbert, Seattle, WA >>> > >>> > 657) Anne Albritton, Madrid, Spain >>> > >>> > 658) Richard Stephens, Madrid, Spain >>> > >>> > 659) Jonathan Forgash, NYC, NY >>> > >>> > 660) Barbara Glaser, Austin, TX >>> > >>> > 661) Jim Blomquist, Chicago, IL >>> > >>> > 662) Amy Rechenmacher, Evanston, IL >>> > >>> > 663) Jayne Flores, Agana, Guam >>> > >>> > 664) Jim Renza >>> > >>> > 665) Ramon A Noya, Atlanta, GA >>> > >>> > 666) Visitacion A Noya, Atlanta, GA >>> > >>> > 667) Geoff Baker, Atlanta, GA >>> > >>> > 668) Richard Gann, Atlanta, GA >>> > >>> > 669) Anthony Thompson, LA, CA >>> > >>> > 670) Carol Cetrone, LA, CA >>> > >>> > 671) Debra Spinelli LA, CA >>> > >>> > 672) Rika Ohara, Los Angeles, CA >>> > >>> > 673) Alan Rich, Los Angeles, CA >>> > >>> > 674) Tina Pelikan, New York, NY >>> > >>> > 675) Juan Gomez, Los Angeles, CA >>> > >>> > 676) Fredrik Nilsen, Los Angeles, CA >>> > >>> > 677) Jackie Sharp, Los Angeles, CA >>> > >>> > 678) Kathleen Frasca, Burbank, CA. >>> > >>> > 679) Ilayne Lucas, Burbank, CA >>> > >>> > 689) Thomas Lucas, Burbank. CA >>> > >>> > 690) Abbe Kanter Jaye, Van Nuys, CA >>> > >>> > 691) Billie Shane, Los Angeles, CA >>> > >>> > 692) Frank Chindamo, L.A., CA >>> > >>> > 693) Erik Liberman, LA, CA >>> > >>> > 694) Jacob Liberman, Basalt, CO >>> > >>> > 695) Marsha Boros, Coral Springs, FL >>> > >>> > 696) Gina Liberman, San Francisco, CA >>> > >>> > 697) Sharon Scruggs, NYC, NY >>> > >>> > 698) Steven Skybell, NYC, NY >>> > >>> > 699) Joseph Skibell, Austin, TX >>> > >>> > 700) Barbara Freer Skibell, Austin TX >>> > >>> > 701) Kerry Fried, Seattle, WA >>> > >>> > 702) Kimberly Burns, West Hollywood, CA >>> > >>> > 703) Howard Tharsing, San Francisco, CA >>> > >>> > 705) Brian Basinger, San Francisco, CA >>> > >>> > 706) David Murray, Chicago, IL >>> > >>> > 707) James E. McPherson, Chicago, IL >>> > >>> > 708) Katherine W. Laughlin, Seattle, WA >>> > >>> > 709) Timothy L. Murray, Seattle, WA >>> > >>> > 710) Beth Moore Haines, Nevada City, CA >>> > >>> > 711) Eric Salzman, Brooklyn & East Quogue NY >>> > >>> > 712) Kevin Guess, Houston, TX >>> > >>> > 713) David Gompper, Iowa City, IA >>> > >>> > 714) Ching-chu Hu, Ann Arbor, MI >>> > >>> > 715) David Maki, Ann Arbor, MI >>> > >>> > 716) David G. Stevens, East Islip, NY >>> > >>> > 717) Rebecca Korn, East Meadow, NY >>> > >>> > 718) John McNeur, Glen Head, NY >>> > >>> > 719) Michael Salzman, Plainview, NY >>> > >>> > 720) Frank Cassara, NY, NY >>> > >>> > 721) Dean Drummond, Upper Nyack, NY >>> > >>> > 722) Patricia Spencer, New York, NY >>> > >>> > 723) Ardith Bondi, New York, NY >>> > >>> > 724) Yeou-Cheng Ma, Fresh Meadows, NY >>> > >>> > 725) Michael Dadap, Fresh Meadows, NY >>> > >>> > 726) Helaine Fiedler, Douglaston, NY >>> > >>> > 727) Merrilee Fiedler, New York, NY >>> > >>> > 728) Jeanne Chin, New York, NY >>> > >>> > 729) Ben Berry, New York, NY >>> > >>> > 730) Pam Coar, North Babylon, NY >>> > >>> > 731) Marie Ingellis, East Northport, NY >>> > >>> > 732) Alice Cavanagh, Binghamton, NY >>> > >>> > 734) Joseph Andrews, Endicott, NY >>> > >>> > 735) Amy Short, Vestal, NY >>> > >>> > 736) Michael Davis, New York, NY >>> > >>> > 737) Jim Walsh, Binghamton, NY >>> > >>> > 738) Zachary Roberts, Binghamton, NY >>> > >>> > 739) Dave Siegel, Palo Alto, CA >>> > >>> > 740) Stephanie Tuerk, Stanford, CA >>> > >>> > 741) Jeanne S. Tuerk, Annapolis, MD >>> > >>> > 742) Carl E. Tuerk, Jr. , Annapolis, Md >>> > >>> > 743) Ivan Rubin, Brooklyn, NY >>> > >>> > 744) Maryann H. Long , Summit, NJ >>> > >>> > 745) Pat Weeden, Oergon, WI >>> > >>> > 746) Tracey Nelson, Oregon, WI >>> > >>> > 747) Alanna Nelson, Brodhead, WI >>> > >>> > 748) Mourad Chaouch, Brodhead, WI >>> > >>> > 749) Diane Epstein, Tiburon, CA >>> > >>> > 750) Alan Epstein, Tiburon, CA >>> > >>> > 751) Frank Avruch,Newton, MA >>> > >>> > 752) Betty Avruch,Newton,MA >>> > >>> > 753) Thomas J. Cottle,BROOKLINE, MA >>> > >>> > 754) Kay Cottle, BROOKLINE, MA >>> > >>> > 755) LANE K. CONN, WEST NEWTON, MA >>> > >>> > 756) Sarah A. Conn, West Newton, MA >>> > >>> > 757) Patricia Morgan, Oregon City, OR >>> > >>> > 758) Lloyd Marbet, Boring, OR >>> > >>> > 759) Lynn Sims, Portland, OR >>> > >>> > 760) Will O'Bryan, Portland, OR >>> > >>> > 761) Rupert Kinnard >>> > >>> > 762) Tim Miller >>> > >>> > 763) W. James Richards, Knoxville, TN >>> > >>> > 764) Dale Goins, Knoxville, TN >>> > >>> > 765) Jane Carter, Columbus, OH >>> > >>> > 766) Arline McCarthy, Athens, OH >>> > >>> > 767) Cliff McCarthy, Athens, OH >>> > >>> > 768) Joyce Richardson, Athens, OH >>> > >>> > 769) Phil Richardson, Athens, OH >>> > >>> > 770) Becky Ramsay, Ellijay, GA >>> > >>> > 771) Christopher Rose, Chicago, IL >>> > >>> > 772) Gladys Chmiel, Brookfield, WI >>> > >>> > 773) Tony Clements, Milwaukee, WI >>> > >>> > 774) Gary Briggle,Mpls,MN >>> > >>> > 775) Wendy Lehr, Mpls,MN >>> > >>> > 776) Jarrod Cafaro,NYC >> >>> > >>> > 777) Jim Dulaney >>> > >>> > 778) Nathan Durham, Freeport, IL >>> > >>> > 779) Kaethe Durham, Freeport, IL >>> > >>> > 780) Dulcy Perkins, Cottonwood, AZ >>> > >>> > 781) Dan Levine N.Y. NY >>> > >>> > 782) Sara Dillon N.Y. NY>> >>> > >>> > 783) RIchard Vitale >>> > >>> > 784) Lee Greene, NY, NY >>> > >>> > 785) Alison Young, Houston, TX >>> > >>> > 786) Holly Mentzer >>> > >>> > 787) William Holab, NY, NY >>> > >>> > 788) Peter Slutsker, Towaco, NJ >>> > >>> > 789) Ben Whiteley NY, NY >>> > >>> > 790) Joel Fram NY, NY >>> > >>> > 791) John Tirro, Knoxville, TN >>> > >>> > 792) Sam Gay, Nashville, TN >>> > >>> > 793) Templeton Thompson, Nashville, TN >>> > >>> > 794) Kyle Frederick, Nashville, TN >>> > >>> > 795) Claire Davidson, Nashville, TN >>> > >>> > 796) Dwight Liles, Mt. Pleasant, TN >>> > >>> > 797) Barbara Conrad, Columbia, TN >>> > >>> > 798) Patricia Conrad, Westwood, KS >>> > >>> > 799) Jami Schaefer, Kansas City, MO >>> > >>> > 800) Curtis E. Hartenberger, Topeka, KS >>> > >>> > 801) Heather Craig-Oldsen, Ponca, NE >>> > >>> > 802) Modesto E. Abety; Miami, FL >>> > >>> > 803) Mireya Novo, Coral Gables, Fl. >>> > >>> > 804) Susan Pierres, Miami, FL. >>> > >>> > 805) Joan Iaconetti, New York, NY >>> > >>> > 806) Linda Waldman, Closter NJ >>> > >>> > 807) Kirk Schlea, Gravel Switch, KY >>> > >>> > 808) Jolee Schlea, Gravel Switch, KY > >----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- > > >"The only difference between genius and stupidity is >that genius has limits." > -- Albert Einstein ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 19:15:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:54:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bardstown.com!glassx From: "Glass Expressions" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Fw: NEA, PBS, NPR Petition Fwd: NEA, PBS, NPR Petition (fwd) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:56:06 +0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.22566.0> Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: Kirk Schlea To: Alexander, Valene ; Amis, AB ; Barnett, Janet ; Berg, Margaret ; Blake, Malcolm ; Brown, Rob ; Carlick, Jeff ; Christopher, Bryan ; Clark, Kathy ; Cullens, Al ; Docekal, Gail ; Drake, Kenneth/Bonnie ; Dwyer, Nadine and Joe ; Fiamengo, Matt/Liv ; Forbes, Joan ; Foxall, Art ; Frankel, Tracy ; Fribush, Dora ; Graybill, Rose ; Greiser, Bob/Georgia/MJ ; Hardin, Gary ; Hetrick, Mary ; Joanne ; Johnson, Diane ; Johnson, Joe/Louise ; Keeler, Karl ; Kittredge, Chris ; Klein, John ; LeMaitre, Jeff/Grace ; Lewis, Kelly ; Marchettoni, Tev ; Marcy, Larry ; Marguccio, David ; McClintock, Jean/John ; McMann, Dan ; Menning, Kathleen ; Moore, Mike ; Nanda, Puneet ; Nordstrom, Deb ; Patronite, Joe ; Patterson, James ; Peabody, Judy ; Pilling, Rich ; Platner, Esther ; Prichard, Aaron ; Reese, Lou ; Richmond, Anita/Rick ; Riise, Joan ; Schlea, Brent ; Scott, Robin/Mark ; Smith, Don ; Snider, Jane ; Sole, Terry ; Steinman, Jay ; Stout, G.G. ; Taylor, Merinda ; Traffis, Brenda ; Tucker, Deb ; Waldman, Linda ; Watts, John/Marilyn ; Wayne, Lauren ; Wellburn, Doug/Sue ; Whitson, Gail Date: Saturday, April 17, 1999 12:49 AM Subject: Fwd: NEA, PBS, NPR Petition Fwd: NEA, PBS, NPR Petition (fwd) >Dear friends, > >I dont' usually forward these things, but I feel this one is >worth it. Please, if you have the time and inclination, pass it >along. Many thanks, Linda > >Subject: NEA, PBS, NPR Petition (fwd) > > >> >> >> On NPR Morning Edition this morning, Nina Tottenberg said that if the Supreme Court supports Congress, it is in effect the end of NEA, the National Endowment for the Arts. > >Then, there's the question of Congressional funding: Funding for NPR/NEA >& PBS. PBS, NPR (National Public Radio), and the arts are facing major >cutbacks in funding. In spite of the efforts of each station to reduce >spending costs and streamline their >services, some government officials believe that the funding currently >going to these programs is too large a portion of funding for something >which is seen as not worthwhile. > >Currently, taxes from the general public for PBS equal $1.12 per person >per year, and the National Endowment for the Arts equals $.64 a year. A >January 1995 CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll indicated that 76% of Americans >wish to keep funding for PBS, third only to national defense and law >enforcement as the most valuable programs for federal funding. > >Each year, the Senate and House Appropriations committees each have 13 >subcommittees with jurisdiction over many programs and agencies. Each >subcommittee passes its own appropriation bill. The goal each year is to >have each bill signed by the beginning of the fiscal year, which is >October 1. > >The only way that our representatives can be aware of the base of >support for PBS and funding for these types of programs is by making our >voices heard. > >Please add your name to this list and forward it to friends who believe >in what this stands for. This list will be forwarded to the President of >the United States, the Vice President of the United States, and >Representative Newt Gingrich, who is the >instigator of the action to cut funding to these worthwhile programs. > >This petition is being passed around the internet. Please add your name >to it so that funding can be maintained for the NEA, NPR & PBS. > >Please keep this petition rolling. Do not reply to me. Please sign and >forward to others to sign. If you prefer not to sign please send to the >e-mail address indicated. This is being forwarded to several people at >once to add their names to the petition. It won't matter if many people >receive the same list as the names are being managed. This is for anyone >who thinks NPR/PBS is a worthwhile expenditure of >$1.12/year of their taxes, a petition follows. > >If you sign, please forward on to others. If not, please don't kill it >- send it to the email address listed here: > >wein2688@blue.univnorthco.edu or >kubi7975@blue.univnorthco.edu > >****If you happen to be the 150th, 200th, 250th, etc. signer >of this petition, please forward a copy to: >wein2688@blue.univnorthco.edu. > >This way we can keep track of the lists and organize them. Forward this >to everyone you know, and help us to keep these programs alive. > >Thank you. > >NOTE: It is preferable that you SELECT the entirety of this letter and >then COPY it into a new outgoing message, rather than simply forwarding >it. In your new outgoing message, add your name to the bottom of the >list, then send it on. Or if option is >available, do a SEND AGAIN. > >>> > 651) Andrea Wickham, New York, NY >>> > >>> > 652) Jessica Wickham, Brooklyn, NY >>> > >>> > 653) Mary H. Lorimer, W Long Branch, NJ >>> > >>> > 654) Janis Jolcuvar, Santa Monica, CA >>> > >>> > 655) Nancy A. Kist, Jersey City, NJ >>> > >>> > 656) Bruce T. Herbert, Seattle, WA >>> > >>> > 657) Anne Albritton, Madrid, Spain >>> > >>> > 658) Richard Stephens, Madrid, Spain >>> > >>> > 659) Jonathan Forgash, NYC, NY >>> > >>> > 660) Barbara Glaser, Austin, TX >>> > >>> > 661) Jim Blomquist, Chicago, IL >>> > >>> > 662) Amy Rechenmacher, Evanston, IL >>> > >>> > 663) Jayne Flores, Agana, Guam >>> > >>> > 664) Jim Renza >>> > >>> > 665) Ramon A Noya, Atlanta, GA >>> > >>> > 666) Visitacion A Noya, Atlanta, GA >>> > >>> > 667) Geoff Baker, Atlanta, GA >>> > >>> > 668) Richard Gann, Atlanta, GA >>> > >>> > 669) Anthony Thompson, LA, CA >>> > >>> > 670) Carol Cetrone, LA, CA >>> > >>> > 671) Debra Spinelli LA, CA >>> > >>> > 672) Rika Ohara, Los Angeles, CA >>> > >>> > 673) Alan Rich, Los Angeles, CA >>> > >>> > 674) Tina Pelikan, New York, NY >>> > >>> > 675) Juan Gomez, Los Angeles, CA >>> > >>> > 676) Fredrik Nilsen, Los Angeles, CA >>> > >>> > 677) Jackie Sharp, Los Angeles, CA >>> > >>> > 678) Kathleen Frasca, Burbank, CA. >>> > >>> > 679) Ilayne Lucas, Burbank, CA >>> > >>> > 689) Thomas Lucas, Burbank. CA >>> > >>> > 690) Abbe Kanter Jaye, Van Nuys, CA >>> > >>> > 691) Billie Shane, Los Angeles, CA >>> > >>> > 692) Frank Chindamo, L.A., CA >>> > >>> > 693) Erik Liberman, LA, CA >>> > >>> > 694) Jacob Liberman, Basalt, CO >>> > >>> > 695) Marsha Boros, Coral Springs, FL >>> > >>> > 696) Gina Liberman, San Francisco, CA >>> > >>> > 697) Sharon Scruggs, NYC, NY >>> > >>> > 698) Steven Skybell, NYC, NY >>> > >>> > 699) Joseph Skibell, Austin, TX >>> > >>> > 700) Barbara Freer Skibell, Austin TX >>> > >>> > 701) Kerry Fried, Seattle, WA >>> > >>> > 702) Kimberly Burns, West Hollywood, CA >>> > >>> > 703) Howard Tharsing, San Francisco, CA >>> > >>> > 705) Brian Basinger, San Francisco, CA >>> > >>> > 706) David Murray, Chicago, IL >>> > >>> > 707) James E. McPherson, Chicago, IL >>> > >>> > 708) Katherine W. Laughlin, Seattle, WA >>> > >>> > 709) Timothy L. Murray, Seattle, WA >>> > >>> > 710) Beth Moore Haines, Nevada City, CA >>> > >>> > 711) Eric Salzman, Brooklyn & East Quogue NY >>> > >>> > 712) Kevin Guess, Houston, TX >>> > >>> > 713) David Gompper, Iowa City, IA >>> > >>> > 714) Ching-chu Hu, Ann Arbor, MI >>> > >>> > 715) David Maki, Ann Arbor, MI >>> > >>> > 716) David G. Stevens, East Islip, NY >>> > >>> > 717) Rebecca Korn, East Meadow, NY >>> > >>> > 718) John McNeur, Glen Head, NY >>> > >>> > 719) Michael Salzman, Plainview, NY >>> > >>> > 720) Frank Cassara, NY, NY >>> > >>> > 721) Dean Drummond, Upper Nyack, NY >>> > >>> > 722) Patricia Spencer, New York, NY >>> > >>> > 723) Ardith Bondi, New York, NY >>> > >>> > 724) Yeou-Cheng Ma, Fresh Meadows, NY >>> > >>> > 725) Michael Dadap, Fresh Meadows, NY >>> > >>> > 726) Helaine Fiedler, Douglaston, NY >>> > >>> > 727) Merrilee Fiedler, New York, NY >>> > >>> > 728) Jeanne Chin, New York, NY >>> > >>> > 729) Ben Berry, New York, NY >>> > >>> > 730) Pam Coar, North Babylon, NY >>> > >>> > 731) Marie Ingellis, East Northport, NY >>> > >>> > 732) Alice Cavanagh, Binghamton, NY >>> > >>> > 734) Joseph Andrews, Endicott, NY >>> > >>> > 735) Amy Short, Vestal, NY >>> > >>> > 736) Michael Davis, New York, NY >>> > >>> > 737) Jim Walsh, Binghamton, NY >>> > >>> > 738) Zachary Roberts, Binghamton, NY >>> > >>> > 739) Dave Siegel, Palo Alto, CA >>> > >>> > 740) Stephanie Tuerk, Stanford, CA >>> > >>> > 741) Jeanne S. Tuerk, Annapolis, MD >>> > >>> > 742) Carl E. Tuerk, Jr. , Annapolis, Md >>> > >>> > 743) Ivan Rubin, Brooklyn, NY >>> > >>> > 744) Maryann H. Long , Summit, NJ >>> > >>> > 745) Pat Weeden, Oergon, WI >>> > >>> > 746) Tracey Nelson, Oregon, WI >>> > >>> > 747) Alanna Nelson, Brodhead, WI >>> > >>> > 748) Mourad Chaouch, Brodhead, WI >>> > >>> > 749) Diane Epstein, Tiburon, CA >>> > >>> > 750) Alan Epstein, Tiburon, CA >>> > >>> > 751) Frank Avruch,Newton, MA >>> > >>> > 752) Betty Avruch,Newton,MA >>> > >>> > 753) Thomas J. Cottle,BROOKLINE, MA >>> > >>> > 754) Kay Cottle, BROOKLINE, MA >>> > >>> > 755) LANE K. CONN, WEST NEWTON, MA >>> > >>> > 756) Sarah A. Conn, West Newton, MA >>> > >>> > 757) Patricia Morgan, Oregon City, OR >>> > >>> > 758) Lloyd Marbet, Boring, OR >>> > >>> > 759) Lynn Sims, Portland, OR >>> > >>> > 760) Will O'Bryan, Portland, OR >>> > >>> > 761) Rupert Kinnard >>> > >>> > 762) Tim Miller >>> > >>> > 763) W. James Richards, Knoxville, TN >>> > >>> > 764) Dale Goins, Knoxville, TN >>> > >>> > 765) Jane Carter, Columbus, OH >>> > >>> > 766) Arline McCarthy, Athens, OH >>> > >>> > 767) Cliff McCarthy, Athens, OH >>> > >>> > 768) Joyce Richardson, Athens, OH >>> > >>> > 769) Phil Richardson, Athens, OH >>> > >>> > 770) Becky Ramsay, Ellijay, GA >>> > >>> > 771) Christopher Rose, Chicago, IL >>> > >>> > 772) Gladys Chmiel, Brookfield, WI >>> > >>> > 773) Tony Clements, Milwaukee, WI >>> > >>> > 774) Gary Briggle,Mpls,MN >>> > >>> > 775) Wendy Lehr, Mpls,MN >>> > >>> > 776) Jarrod Cafaro,NYC >> >>> > >>> > 777) Jim Dulaney >>> > >>> > 778) Nathan Durham, Freeport, IL >>> > >>> > 779) Kaethe Durham, Freeport, IL >>> > >>> > 780) Dulcy Perkins, Cottonwood, AZ >>> > >>> > 781) Dan Levine N.Y. NY >>> > >>> > 782) Sara Dillon N.Y. NY>> >>> > >>> > 783) RIchard Vitale >>> > >>> > 784) Lee Greene, NY, NY >>> > >>> > 785) Alison Young, Houston, TX >>> > >>> > 786) Holly Mentzer >>> > >>> > 787) William Holab, NY, NY >>> > >>> > 788) Peter Slutsker, Towaco, NJ >>> > >>> > 789) Ben Whiteley NY, NY >>> > >>> > 790) Joel Fram NY, NY >>> > >>> > 791) John Tirro, Knoxville, TN >>> > >>> > 792) Sam Gay, Nashville, TN >>> > >>> > 793) Templeton Thompson, Nashville, TN >>> > >>> > 794) Kyle Frederick, Nashville, TN >>> > >>> > 795) Claire Davidson, Nashville, TN >>> > >>> > 796) Dwight Liles, Mt. Pleasant, TN >>> > >>> > 797) Barbara Conrad, Columbia, TN >>> > >>> > 798) Patricia Conrad, Westwood, KS >>> > >>> > 799) Jami Schaefer, Kansas City, MO >>> > >>> > 800) Curtis E. Hartenberger, Topeka, KS >>> > >>> > 801) Heather Craig-Oldsen, Ponca, NE >>> > >>> > 802) Modesto E. Abety; Miami, FL >>> > >>> > 803) Mireya Novo, Coral Gables, Fl. >>> > >>> > 804) Susan Pierres, Miami, FL. >>> > >>> > 805) Joan Iaconetti, New York, NY >>> > >>> > 806) Linda Waldman, Closter NJ >>> > >>> > 807) Kirk Schlea, Gravel Switch, KY >>> > >>> > 808) Jolee Schlea, Gravel Switch, KY > >----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- > > >"The only difference between genius and stupidity is >that genius has limits." > -- Albert Einstein ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 19:28:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:14:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Julie's Book on Glass Conservation Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:15:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.121520.0> Precedence: bulk Albert, I ordered the book on the 13th from barnesandnoble.com and it came just now (3 day UPS just like the promised). So they have sold one book that I know of. It shipped exactly when they said, so I am pleased. Good weekend reading. Linda Jo ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 19:38:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:06:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Albert taken to task Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:14:02 +0000 Message-ID: <199904162106.RAA27598@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > So don't worry about declining membership because of some > disgruntled "person".... you lose some, but you also win some..... Count me now among the gruntled. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 19:43:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:21:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: scc.net!oddjob From: "Susan C. Reitmann" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: Tacky Wax Removal Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:18:11 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.121811.0> Precedence: bulk Am in process of completing the "lamp from hell". This was done using a custom made form ( from wood, shaped like a giant funnel). Because I thought I may want to reuse the form in the future I covered it with masking tape before drawing the design on it. Was necessary to use tacky wax as push pins wouldn't go into the wood. After flat soldering the outside, I had to put the whole thing in the oven at 250 degrees for about 20 minutes in order to remove the shade from the form . Now have the inside flat soldered as well. It now has enough strength so it maintains it shape as I start to build up the bead on the solder lines. Now for the questions: 1.How do I go about removing the taxy wax that now has formed a thin film over most of the inside surface of the glass? 2.Is it correct to remove the wax at this point, or should I continue to build the solder bead before removing the wax? ( I eventually want to use black patina for the finishing). All help most appreciated. I could have saved myself alot of time if I hadn't covered it with the tape first. I will never reuse this form.......far too much work!!!!! Will post a photo on Daniel's site when finished. ( if ever!!) Sue Reitmann ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 19:55:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:26:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr From: CncptThnkr@aol.com To: elsiemt@bellatlantic.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: NG something to think about (aka chain letter) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:20:45 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr16.222045.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/16/99 5:01:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, elsiemt@bellatlantic.net writes: > The origin of this letter is unknown, but it brings good luck to > > everyone who passes it on. Forward it to five of your friends to > > whom you wish good luck. You will see that something good happens to > > you four days from now. Lovely story, probably totally fabricated, however I want to also let you know I personally do not appreciate the Internet chain letters I receive. You may want to cut the send this on for good luck portion in the future. Don't you think it detracts from the actual story? I do. IA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 19:58:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:03:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: (Fwd) Assistance Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:00:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.15048.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Albert Lewis" >Black Creek Enterprises. I have seen their ads in Glass Patterns Q, however, there is no phone #, address, etc.< Wow, is this a clever new marketing technique, or what! Bet = none of us ever forgets Black Creek Enterprises... Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 19:58:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:03:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Christie A. Wood" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: horizontal support Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:00:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.15051.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Christie A. Wood" >. Unfortunately, none of the steel bars goes into the window frame. They stop just short of the frame. < Yikes! Well, that's what you get when you go with the lowest bid.... do you really want that repair, Christie? Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 20:08:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:04:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Jeff Eckes" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Liquid glass and movement Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:00:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.15053.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Jeff Eckes" >Lokk in a good encyclopedia and you will find that glass is a "...fluid = in a solid state..." Not that doesn't confuse the issue even more! < And then there's that age-old argument that glass panels over a long = period of time will gravitate southward... and to prove it they're thicke= r on the bottom pane. Wrong. I think it was recently proven that the downward movement is negligible. Albert, you might fill in the = scientific nitty-gritty here. *I think alot of those windows have = thicker glass on the bottom because the glazier believed the thicker glass gave more structural support and intentionally built the = windows that way. Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 20:08:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:39:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: L shaped cuts Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:35:27 +0000 Message-ID: <199904162227.SAA28853@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > The BEST comparison I can see is that of ice to glass. I don't > think that ANYONE would call ice anything but a 'fluid'. Water is a fluid, but glass isn't. See http://www.desy.de/user/projects/Physics/glass.html > said, "...a piece cut and left on a table for 100 years will be > unbroken.." or something to that effect. I stand by this until > proven wrong. Okay, I just laid a piece of glass on the table. Am now waiting 100 years. Actually, I've seen them spontaneously crack much sooner than that. > Tell me something, if the panel is HUNG instead of set into a frame, > would not you be using gravity to your advantage? Think about this! > Our predecessors in glass KNEW this and for all intents HUNG their > glass from metal bars! Our predecessors (as well as the current crop of profession studios and craftspeople) insert the bars into the surround, then wire the window to the bars. The bars support the windows, not the other 'way 'round. Always have, always should. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 20:09:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:41:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: L shaped cuts Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:35:27 +0000 Message-ID: <199904162227.SAA00305@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > I believe what you remember is a quote relating to glass a "liquid". > Some folks use this instead of 'fluid'. Lokk in a good encyclopedia > and you will find that glass is a "...fluid in a solid state..." > Not that doesn't confuse the issue even more! Charles is right on this one, I'm afraid. See http://www.desy.de/user/projects/Physics/glass.html Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 20:22:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:12:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Mar333Wood From: Mar333Wood@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Glass Pattern Servicen Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:08:54 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr16.23854.0> Precedence: bulk This is an interesting site on a glass pattern service if anyone is interested. Good details and he is willing to work with whatever is needed. Don Sabourin Red Mountain Stained Glass http://members.aol.com/sgpattern Until later, Marti ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 20:24:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:25:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: scci.net!wmh From: Melissa Hall To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: horizontal support Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:03:54 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19990416190354.006a8134@scci.net> References: <<1999Apr16.45812.0>> Precedence: bulk I think I'd definitely leave my business card at TGI Friday's. Any TGI Friday's or Bennigan's I've ever been in has had at least one broken lamp. (Usually more!) tsk tsk tsk... Melissa At 08:58 AM 4/16/99 -0400, Christie A. Wood wrote: >Message text written by Dani Greer >>And remember, if you're adding bar support/rebar, those bars >will extend into the window frame to support the S.G. Don't just >add rebar and leave it hanging there thinking you're adding >strength when all you've really done is add weight. Some of >you may shake your heads and laugh.... but, we've seen it happen.< > >I recently saw a prime example of this sort of very poor >support. This is in a recently-built TGI Friday's restaurant >in my town of North Wales. It has a wanking* large circular >window (maybe 5' across) with lots of jewels and heavy >opaque glass in the Victorian style. Has about 7 heavy >horizontal steel support bars across it. Unfortunately, none >of the steel bars goes into the window frame. They stop >just short of the frame. I thought about leaving my business >card with the manager for future repairs. Maybe I'll do that >anyway, as they also have tons of stained glass lamps, >many of which will be subject to the wear & tear of a public >bar scene. > >*for those of you who need an explanation of the Commonwealth >term, "wanking", let's say it's a ?mild? expletive used as a >descriptor when you are astonished at something. Learned it >on my 2-year stay in New Zealand.* > >Christie A. Wood >Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, >P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 >http://www.igga.org/wood/ >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 20:28:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:48:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Jeff Eckes" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: horizontal support >>myth based on eronious observation<< [here I go again!] Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:10:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.151033.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Jeff Eckes" >If you make your windows with AT LEAST a 1/2" ZINC or hard metal border = (I prefer 3/4" zinc)< We refuse to use zinc because the solder joints fail more readily over a long period of time than lead joints.... also, since we install almost all of our work, it's nice to be able to plane down the outside border as needed to fit the window opening... ain't hardly anything square on this planet. There has also been considerable discussion on this forum that zinc creates a problem for students who are using cheaper soldering irons - the zinc contamination raises the eutectic point of the solder and those student irons just aren't running hot enough to = melt the solder. = Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 20:29:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:31:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ameritech.net!garys From: "GARY SCHROEDER" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: thoughts from an observer Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:54:37 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.155437.0> Precedence: bulk Bungarians Are Like Taters Some are very bossy and like to tell everyone what to do, But don't want to soil their own hands. They are called "Dict Tators." Some never seem motivated to participate, But are content to just watch while others do. They are called "Speck Tators." Some never do anything to help, But are gifted at finding fault with the way others do things. They are called "Comment Tators." Some are always looking to cause problems They ask others to agree with them, "That is too cold or too hot. Don't you agree?" They are called the "Aggie Tators." Some are always say they will, But somehow never get around to anything. They are called "Hezzie Tators." Some put on a front. They act like someone they are not. They are called "Emma Tators." Then there are those who live what they talk. They are always prepared to stop what they are doing to lend a hand, They bring real sunshine into others lives. You might call them "Sweet Tators." 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) back to "observing" Gary - burned and bleeding fingers ain't glass wonderful ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 20:34:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:08:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: nettally.com!vford From: vford@nettally.com (Ford, Vanesa) To: "glass" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: subscribe Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:09:50 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.17950.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008D_01BE884D.774C48E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_000_008D_01BE884D.774C48E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
------=_NextPart_000_008D_01BE884D.774C48E0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 20:35:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:48:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: (Fwd) Assistance Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:46:57 -0700 Message-ID: <199904170046.RAA00792@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >Anyone have an answer for this person? Might as well answer on the >forum, so everyone else has the answer, too. Thanks! -- Albert > > >------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- >From: Farmhs1@aol.com >Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:45:26 EDT >Subject: Assistance >To: alewis@adelphia.net >Reply-to: Farmhs1@aol.com > >I would appreciate some help in locating Black Creek Enterprises. I >have seen their ads in Glass Patterns Q, however, there is no phone #, >address, etc. I have made a fused piece that would look wonderful in >one of their frames. Also, do you know of any other companies making >mounting frames like theirs ? > I would appreciate any assistance you can offer. Before anyone asks, there has to be 2 Black Creeks since there's no business by that name here. McNeill Woodworks also makes frames, or you could have a custom woodworker make something up for you. C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 20:39:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:06:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: NG-Funny Dream! Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:52:09 -0400 Message-ID: <199904162153.RAA02804@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 4/16/99 9:23 AM Diane W Manchester tifstyorig@juno.com >Now that I'm awake from the dream.....I almost feel inspired to give the >chewing tobacco a try. :>) Hey, why not? Somebody...(who?) discovered what...(the carbon atom?) by dreaming of a snake biting its own tale. You never know, and it can't hurt. Just don't try chewing the stuff, it tastes awful!!! Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 22:03:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:37:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!ellenid From: Elleni Drafts To: Farmhs1@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: (Fwd) Assistance Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:15:38 -0400 Message-ID: References: <<199904161455.KAA20922@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk According to Switchboard.com this is the address and phone number for Black Creek Enterprises. Black Creek Enterprises Inc Dandridge, TN 37725 Phone: (423)397-1391 >------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- >From: Farmhs1@aol.com >Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:45:26 EDT >Subject: Assistance >To: alewis@adelphia.net >Reply-to: Farmhs1@aol.com > >I would appreciate some help in locating Black Creek Enterprises. I >have seen their ads in Glass Patterns Q, however, there is no phone #, >address, etc. I have made a fused piece that would look wonderful in >one of their frames. Also, do you know of any other companies making >mounting frames like theirs ? > I would appreciate any assistance you can offer. > >Thank You, > >Susan Slack >Farmhouse Creations >Farmhs 1@aol.com >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass Elleni ellenid@earthlink.net South Carolina - Smiling Faces - Beautiful Places ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 22:12:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:41:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: message/rfc822 Subject: [Fwd: Re: horizontal support] Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 22:48:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.17488.0> Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <37180461.1D10@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 22:47:45 -0500 From: Suzanne Reply-To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Melissa Hall Subject: Re: horizontal support References: <<1999Apr16.45812.0>> <3.0.2.32.19990416190354.006a8134@scci.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Having been a traveling trainer for TGI Fridays, for several years, ...in one of my former lives..I would be willing to bet Fridays isnt gonna pay the money for a lamp repair...they would be paying more for the repair than they did for the lamp. Chances are, they would buy a new one rather than repair. T Suz Melissa Hall wrote: > > I think I'd definitely leave my business card at TGI Friday's. Any TGI > Friday's or Bennigan's I've ever been in has had at least one broken lamp. > (Usually more!) tsk tsk tsk... > > Melissa > > At 08:58 AM 4/16/99 -0400, Christie A. Wood wrote: > >Message text written by Dani Greer > >>And remember, if you're adding bar support/rebar, those bars > >will extend into the window frame to support the S.G. Don't just > >add rebar and leave it hanging there thinking you're adding > >strength when all you've really done is add weight. Some of > >you may shake your heads and laugh.... but, we've seen it happen.< > > > >I recently saw a prime example of this sort of very poor > >support. This is in a recently-built TGI Friday's restaurant > >in my town of North Wales. It has a wanking* large circular > >window (maybe 5' across) with lots of jewels and heavy > >opaque glass in the Victorian style. Has about 7 heavy > >horizontal steel support bars across it. Unfortunately, none > >of the steel bars goes into the window frame. They stop > >just short of the frame. I thought about leaving my business > >card with the manager for future repairs. Maybe I'll do that > >anyway, as they also have tons of stained glass lamps, > >many of which will be subject to the wear & tear of a public > >bar scene. > > > >*for those of you who need an explanation of the Commonwealth > >term, "wanking", let's say it's a ?mild? expletive used as a > >descriptor when you are astonished at something. Learned it > >on my 2-year stay in New Zealand.* > > > >Christie A. Wood > >Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, > >P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 > >http://www.igga.org/wood/ > >---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 22:27:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:43:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Glass Expressions" Subject: Re: NEA, PBS, NPR Petition Fwd: NEA, PBS, NPR Petition (fwd) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:41:50 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.134150.0> Precedence: bulk >>Please add your name to this list and forward it to friends who believe >in what this stands for. This list will be forwarded to the President of >the United States, the Vice President of the United States, and >Representative Newt Gingrich, who is the >instigator of the action to cut funding to these worthwhile programs.<< Some of us actualy read this SPAM. The text says that PBS is the third most popular progeam for funding in the country already. What are we to do- try to shoot for number uno! I doubt that the President has time to read this, don't care if the VP does or not and Newt is out of office. If we get to debating funding for the arts, this time I am going to be on the side of beefing up their budget. Going to shoot for $10.00 per head per year. Heck, that is only about three cents a day. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 22:35:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:52:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RepitionRepitionRepitionRepition Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 23:49:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.194929.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all - I really believe the best commissions are church jobs, but I gotta tell ya, building the same pattern over and over gets a wee tad boring after about six panels... I'm on #7... three more to go. Same window over and over. And that's only the bottom half. Then we get to do the top halves... all the same except the medallions are different. I'm = going to be totally crazy by Monday AM. Help. Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 23:08:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:46:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Shirley's List" , "Bungi" Subject: Fw: Learn How to Market Your Crafts Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:38:36 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.143836.0> Precedence: bulk I don't know anything about this but you might be interested. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. -----Original Message----- From: Acraftbiz Newsgroups: rec.crafts.glass Date: Friday, April 16, 1999 11:43 AM Subject: Learn How to Market Your Crafts >Free Newsletter first issue is out to receive yours go to: > >Acraftbiz@aol.com Subject NEW JOIN, and I will get one right our to you. > >I will publish every 3 weeks > >Marie Young >Acraftbiz@aol.com >Marie Young >The National Arts & Crafts Resource Network >http://www.delphi.com/Acraftbiz >mailto: Acraftbiz@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 16 23:17:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:52:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: L shaped cuts /now different ones Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 22:50:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.18507.0> References: <> Precedence: bulk Cindy, What you describe sounds like "overlay". The lead is the thing cut in half, then soldered and to the glass. No saw required! Jeff Eckes -----Original Message----- From: Cindy Pesonen [mailto:cpesonen@uniserve.com] Sent: Friday, April 16, 1999 11:11 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: L shaped cuts /now different ones Hi guys, I've seen this quite often in others works and looks impressive BUT...(let's see if I can describ it, grin). Take a piece of glass and I *assume* saw a line into it, wide enough to insert a strip of lead came. (The line doesn't exit anywhere on the glass.) To me this seems scary...and is asking alot out of the glass. Cindy...who doesn't own a saw...(thinks they are kinda neat BUT doubt that I would ever buy one.) > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 00:08:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 22:43:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: NG-Funny Dream! Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 22:50:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.185010.0> References: <<1999Apr16.52333.0>> Precedence: bulk The question is: Can you rub on a tobacco chewer...? (better have a gun if you do it down here in the south!) Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Diane W Manchester [mailto:tifstyorig@juno.com] Sent: Friday, April 16, 1999 9:24 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: NG-Funny Dream! I woke up with a chuckle in my mind that I thought I'd share. Last night I had a dream that I was finishing a copper foil panel and learned (in my dream) that chewing tobacco could be rubbed on the solder lines to achieve a strong, black patina. Then I thought of the stove-blackening stuff that you all have been talking about and wondered if you could use that to rub on the solder lines to get a patina? And on my thoughts wondered to what other materials could be used to "rub" on a patina besides the usual chemicals??!! Now that I'm awake from the dream.....I almost feel inspired to give the chewing tobacco a try. :>) Diane Manchester Tiffany Styled Originals Carthage, NC ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 03:12:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 01:52:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Liquid glass and movement Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 04:58:34 +0000 Message-ID: <199904170850.EAA09894@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > *I think alot of those windows have = > thicker glass on the bottom because the glazier believed the thicker > glass gave more structural support and intentionally built the > windows that way. It's easier to see through the thinner portion? Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 03:42:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 02:14:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Glass Giraffe >>thanks<< Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 22:50:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.18505.0> References: <> Precedence: bulk Steve, The titles available right now are: Cutting techniques 1 Foiling Soldering You can get them at: www.stainedglasswarehouse.com Ask for Cliff and tell him I said hi. Jeff (in a laconic voice) thanks for your support -----Original Message----- From: Steve Fairbairn [mailto:sfairbairn@clientside-viennasys.com] Sent: Friday, April 16, 1999 6:44 PM To: 'Jeff Eckes' Subject: RE: Glass Giraffe >>thanks<< Hi Jeff, I have not seen any of your videos at the local suppliers' and was wondering if you had a catalogue or list that you could send me (with pricing) via email. I can send you my snail-mail address if need be. I consider myself a newbie as I was a fairly serious hobbyist about for a few years but then (for various reasons I won't go into) set it aside for 18 years. I've just gotten back into it in the past few months and am working on relearning everything that I'd forgotten. Regards, Steve -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Eckes [mailto:glassgiraffe@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, April 16, 1999 11:19 AM To: Ken & Barbara Larie; glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Glass Giraffe >>thanks<< Thank you Barb, ( the check's in the mail) Actually, we did these videos for just this reason. We where tired of the misinformation (not to mention the presentation) of what was available on the market. We do have plans to put out more on specific subjects as soon as we get settled in NY. Thanks again! Jeff Eckes PS any suggestions on what kind of titles we should do, anyone? Keep in mind that our videos are SKILLS BASED, not project based. (for instance: "reinforcement considerations for leaded panels" vs. "How to build a green box") -----Original Message----- From: Ken & Barbara Larie [mailto:columbine@net-port.com] Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 12:51 PM To: Subject: Glass Giraffe Ken and I would like to complement Jeff Eckes and his wife on their videos. We have rented several from the Stained Glass Place in Grand Rapids, MI, and enjoyed them very much. We like the method, as well as the personalities. We thought they were most helpful and informative, much better than others we had looked at. We won't mention any names, as we don't wish to labeled as having a personal problem, or being prejudice, but we are we like that Glass Giraffe guy very much. Thanks. Barb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 04:35:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 03:26:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: RepitionRepitionRepitionRepition Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 11:22:49 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.122249.0> Precedence: bulk At 23:49 16/04/99 -0400, Dani wrote: >Hi all - > >I really believe the best commissions are >church jobs, but I gotta tell ya, building the >same pattern over and over gets a wee tad >boring after about six panels... I'm on #7... >three more to go. Same window over and >over. And that's only the bottom half. Then >we get to do the top halves... all the same >except the medallions are different. I'm = > >going to be totally crazy by Monday AM. >Help. > At least I hope they havent insisted on a discount for quantity like housing developers are prone to do. I often suggest we should ADD a percentage for every repeat over two to compensate for the boredom factor!! EliZabeth Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 04:47:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 03:27:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: w****ing Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 11:22:48 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.122248.0> Precedence: bulk At 08:58 16/04/99 -0400, Christie wrote: >*for those of you who need an explanation of the Commonwealth >term, "wanking", let's say it's a ?mild? expletive used as a >descriptor when you are astonished at something. Learned it >on my 2-year stay in New Zealand.* > Not in UK English-speak I am afraid - it is a rude term used to describe the activity once also I think referred to as the sin of Onan. I shall leave it up to one of our male members to describe it more fully if necessary. :-0 EliZabeth in Bournemouth ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 06:44:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 05:34:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: NG-Funny Dream! Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 08:21:27 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr17.122127.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/16/99 11:40:02 PM, suzy@ComCAT.COM writes: >Hey, why not? Somebody...(who?) discovered what...(the carbon atom?) by >dreaming of a snake biting its own tale. The ring structure of benzene. Sparks, ex-chemist ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 07:20:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 06:01:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: horizontal support >>myth based on eronious observation<< [here I go again!] Date: Sat Apr 17 06:00:04 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.3384.0> Organization: Taylor'd Expressions Precedence: bulk i agree with the usage of zinc, but not with the larger width zinc. i believe the large zinc gives less support because all you are adding is a larger air pocket. the 1/4" zinc has more metal and less air space, which has more strength debbie debbie jo taylor kleeman@one.net http://www.taylordexpressions.com your complete stained glass supply source 1-888-488-9616 On Friday, April 16, 1999 7:11 PM, Dani Greer [SMTP:GreerStudios@compuserve.com] wrote: > Message text written by "Jeff Eckes" > >If you make your windows with AT LEAST a 1/2" ZINC or hard metal border > >= > (I > prefer 3/4" zinc)< > > We refuse to use zinc because the solder joints fail > more readily over a long period of time than lead > joints.... also, since we install almost all of our work, > it's nice to be able to plane down the outside border > as needed to fit the window opening... ain't hardly > anything square on this planet. There has also > been considerable discussion on this forum that > zinc creates a problem for students who are using > cheaper soldering irons - the zinc contamination > raises the eutectic point of the solder and those > student irons just aren't running hot enough to = > > melt the solder. = > > > Best, > > Dani Greer > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 07:51:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 05:43:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!tifstyorig From: Diane W Manchester To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: NG-Thanks for the Debate Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 08:45:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.44546.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks to Jeff and Albert for the ongoing "CrossPoint" SG discussions. I am learning alot and appreciate the efforts of their thoughts and expertise. Diane Manchester Tiffany Styled Originals Carthage, NC ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 08:14:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 06:37:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: TGI Fridays lamps Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:36:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.53659.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Suzanne >I would be willing to bet Fridays isnt gonna pay the money for a lamp repair...they would be paying more for the repair than they did for the lamp. Chances are, they would buy a new one rather than repair.< Then maybe I could just ask them to throw away the broken lamp in my direction, then I can repair it and sell it! Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 08:23:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 07:00:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: L shaped cuts /now different ones Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:58:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.55857.0> References: <> Precedence: bulk I have seen what I think you're talking about. It is lead with the heart cut out and epoxied to the glass, so it looks like a lead line to nowhere. Dorothy Cindy Pesonen wrote: > Hi guys, > I've seen this quite often in others works and looks impressive BUT...(let's > see if I can describ it, grin). > Take a piece of glass and I *assume* saw a line into it, wide enough to > insert a strip of lead came. (The line doesn't exit anywhere on the glass.) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 08:28:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 06:38:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: craft booth Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:36:50 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.53650.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Sue Prullage >To all you crafters, can you help me. I contacted a carpenter to draw up a design that would work as a booth for inside and outside craft fairs. I wanted it mobile about 60 inches across and 48 inches tall and would fold. I thought I might need a couple of these, maybe even three until the price was quoted. The price came in at $400.00. Did you all really spend that kind of money on your booth. If not how did you design it? any suggestions would be helpful.< I think it's the requirement that it fold, plus the fact that it will be built out of wood instead of PVC pipe or metal fencing posts, which drives up the price quoted to you. I paid $500 for a 10' x 8' booth made of oak planks and bed furniture slat hardware. It is quite heavy, but withstands the outdoor gails one encounters frequently at shows. It takes 2 people to put it up/take it down. On the other hand, since it is constructed out of bed furniture slat hardware, no screws/screwdrivers are required for assembly. You should investigate constructing the booth so that it is modular to assemble, rather than folds. Also, why not use the PVC pipe or metal fencing posts for construction? Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 09:01:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 07:38:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: L shaped cuts /now different ones Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 07:36:18 -0700 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Thanks Carol, Deb and Jeff... (with an embrassing smile) Having seen it in a fellow's *up town and real classy* brochere, I really thought it had been done to the glass. If it hadn't been for you guys, I'd be still thinking that, grin...thanks! Excuse me *please* for any unnecessary comments on saws and as for dumb questions, I could have some more. (but hopefully not soon) Cindy:) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 09:36:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 07:52:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: YEAH Bio #100 Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:53:33 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.45333.0> Precedence: bulk Congratulations to all of us... Bio #100 has been posted. It has been a long, hard road..... but we did it. We have (I'll blame it everybody) teased, threatened, pleaded, and begged for bios. Send me your bio for posting ...... Please, we are very interested in you. Now for a word from our sponsor....... I need bios from all the lurkers, lurkerettes {yeah chauvanistic (8-)} I need them now. You have been satisfying your voyeuristic tendencies and now you can enjo= y your exhibitionist side. P.S. I have developed a worm that when not fed bios it bites its own tail. (see other thread by chemist (ex) Sparks). It a terrible thing to watch. BTW I have found my photo of what I think is Blake's attempt at wearing a self fashioned kilt. It is a little risqu=E9 but I will send it to anyone= who asks.... except Blake.....LOL Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 09:53:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 08:25:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: horizontal support >>myth based on eronious observation<< [here I go again!] Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 22:49:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.184954.0> References: <<199904161910_MC2-725D-1D0@compuserve.com>> Precedence: bulk Hmmm... I DO agree with you about solder joints breaking...BUT only when installed in a MOVABLE situation, like a door. Again, I use the same method of H shaped lead for most of my installations...but NOT when it needs to be something else. Limiting yourself to only one thing by rote is bad for you AND your customer! There is always a place to use a certain method...correctly identifying which is which is the mark of a professional. Jeff Eckes -----Original Message----- From: Dani Greer [mailto:GreerStudios@compuserve.com] Sent: Friday, April 16, 1999 7:11 PM To: Jeff Eckes Cc: [unknown] Subject: RE: horizontal support >>myth based on eronious observation<< [here I go again!] Message text written by "Jeff Eckes" >If you make your windows with AT LEAST a 1/2" ZINC or hard metal border (I prefer 3/4" zinc)< We refuse to use zinc because the solder joints fail more readily over a long period of time than lead joints.... also, since we install almost all of our work, it's nice to be able to plane down the outside border as needed to fit the window opening... ain't hardly anything square on this planet. There has also been considerable discussion on this forum that zinc creates a problem for students who are using cheaper soldering irons - the zinc contamination raises the eutectic point of the solder and those student irons just aren't running hot enough to melt the solder. Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 10:09:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 08:25:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: "Lee Boe" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Schott glass Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 22:50:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.185024.0> References: <<3714FFE1.EEC1B1FE@home.com>> Precedence: bulk Lee, I have never seen the colors from Schott, would have to look into it (you can BET I will!) I have 5mm, 8mm, and 10mm rods as well as a rare (in this country) 7.7mm capillary tubing that I make ornaments with (I can send a reprint of the article on how to do it if you like). For color I much prefer to use Optul, Reichenbach and Bullseye. I have a variety pack of frits or powders if you would like to try them. I THINK that they are about $18 each, but call John in the store at: 888-456-6665 and ask him. The Schott is $8.95 per pound retail (pretty cheap, considering that Hoy is now over $6 for WHOLESALE) and we do wholesale with the usual ID and minimums. If you come to GAS, get on over to the marble contest for the "open torch" that I am hosting. You can try some of the colors that I mentioned (sitting down ). Let me know if I can help you any more, Jeff Eckes -----Original Message----- From: Lee Boe [mailto:leestat7@home.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 4:52 PM To: Jeff Eckes Subject: Schott glass Hi Jeff, I was just about to call around for some Schott clear rod, & maybe a color or two. Can you get some for me too? A couple pounds of clear, 3 mm , 6 mm and 10 mm rods? What colors do they handle ? The Schott catalog lists blue, yellow, green , purple and pink. Or is that just the optic crystal, or they the same. And have never worked the Optul glass , is it some thing I should try? I am trying to put off the foot surgery till after the GAS in Tampa, but may not be able too. If I can will just come up as a spectator maybe on sat. Let me know- Lee Boe rain-Boe's Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 10:21:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 08:58:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: craft booth Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 10:29:13 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.62913.0> References: <<1999Apr16.4041.0>> Precedence: bulk My husband built the units we are using now, prices for wood ran from perhaps $50 to $70. The first unit he built has a footprint of 2x3 and it is 6 feet tall. It does not collapse, but straps to the top of our car and is very sturdy. It has three sides, rectangles with three rows of dowels across. We have shelves clamped over the dowels...small corner shelves at the top, larger corners in the center, shelf on the lowest set of dowels, full shelf across the bottom. The whole thing is painted and must be repainted every couple of years. WE use push pins in the frame to hang glass, shower curtain rings over th dowels. Our second unit had to collapsible (no more room on the roof of the station wagon) and is 3 x 4 x 6. Same dowel construction, but have hinges with removable pins. There are only a couple of graduated shelves that go full length, plus a base. They are fitted to the dowels and removable, of course. We often arrange the shelves so that there's a large space at the bottom of the rack so that we can put some of our plastic packing boxes there, cover them and use them as small table. We also have two folding tables and an accordian hinged piece that we can hang items from. It gives a lot of variety and allows us do shows with a variety of spaces. Dorothy Sue Prullage wrote: > To all you crafters, can you help me. I contacted a carpenter to draw > up a design that would work as a booth for inside and outside craft > fairs. I wanted it mobile about 60 inches across and 48 inches tall and > would fold. I thought I might need a couple of these, maybe even three > until the price was quoted. The price came in at $400.00. Did you all > really spend that kind of money on your booth. If not how did you > design it? any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks Sue P > ---- > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 11:16:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 10:10:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: TGI Fridays lamps Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 13:08:29 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr17.17829.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/17/99 11:14:43 AM, Ensembles@compuserve.com writes: >Then maybe I could just ask them to throw away the >broken lamp in my direction, then I can repair it and >sell it! Hmmmmmmm...... I was thinking along very similar lines...... Just shows to go ya, I've been haning out with the wrong people for too long Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 12:18:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 10:47:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , Subject: Re: RepitionRepitionRepitionRepition Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 10:45:36 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.34536.0> Precedence: bulk >>At least I hope they havent insisted on a discount for quantity like housing developers are prone to do. I often suggest we should ADD a percentage for every repeat over two to compensate for the boredom factor!! EliZabeth Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk<< While I can subscribe to the above idea there is another side to the coin. A commission to do twelve large church windows with only the medalions different has cretain advantages, such as: 1. Necessary staging for all twelve windows is likely the same. 2. Temporary closures can be reused as the job progresses. 3. Things like lead can be ordered several cases at a time, 4. Replacement glass or new glass is as easy to obtain for twelve windows as one, 4. Only one design is necessary, 5. A production schedule for several weeks can be worked out, and 6. The work tends to go faster with each window. Still, while I will give a good discount for volume work, I tend to dread doing more than two of the same window. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 12:55:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 11:16:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: pkelly;kilt request.. Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 14:16:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.101633.0> Precedence: bulk By all means , please send me a copy...Abbie in Va ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 13:46:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:29:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Jeff Eckes" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: Glass Giraffe >>thanks<< Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:27:52 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.112752.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Jeff Eckes" > (in a laconic voice) thanks for your support < How about in an Elvis voice, "Thanka-vair-much...." Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 14:00:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:29:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Bob E Duchesneau" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: NEA, PBS, NPR Petition Fwd: NEA, PBS, NPR Petition (fwd) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:27:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.112746.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Bob E Duchesneau" > If we get to debating funding for the arts, this time I am going to be on the side of beefing up their budget. Going to shoot for $10.00 per head per year. Heck, that is only about three cents a day. Bob < Hey, Bob, I might argue the pro side this time, too, just for yucks! Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 14:12:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:29:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Jeff Eckes" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: L shaped cuts /now different ones Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:27:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.112748.0> Precedence: bulk I thought Cindy maybe meant v-groove wheel- cutting but can't figure out how the lead comes into the picture.... Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 14:18:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:30:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Jeff Eckes" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: What is a professional? Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:28:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.11289.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Jeff Eckes" >correctly identifying which is which is the mark of a professional. Jeff Eckes < Here's what I think is the mark of a professional: Someone who is a good artist and is able to render original work with a high degree of artistic merit, and who is also a good craftsman and thus uses the = best proven materials and methods to ensure the archival quality of the work. Both require continuing education... staying up on all the latest and = continually testing the new against the proven from history. For example, like many stained glass artists of this century, we long used Portland cement in our cement recipe.... until we joined = IGGA, got our hands on a copy of "Conservation of Stained Glass in America", and learned = how terribly damaging that old technique really was. Stopped doing that immediately. On the other hand, I still don't see any good reason to invest in a saw. All IMPO of course! Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ "Craft is art that has to work for a living." ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 14:38:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 13:05:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ipa.net!gecko From: "a 6'3\", 300 lb. woman... definately not Blake" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: picture of a great kilt Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 14:24:29 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.92429.0> Precedence: bulk >BTW I have found my photo of what I think is Blake's attempt at wearing a >self fashioned kilt. It is a little risqu=E9 but I will send it to anyone= > who >asks.... except Blake.....LOL >Patrick >Roses and Rainbows (painfully high pitched voice) Well *I* for one would LOVE to have that picture Mr. Kelly! I have just discovered your wonderful page, and would love to take you up on your generous offer of a Scotsman in a great-kilt. (.... pulling the veil up a little higher on hi... err... HER face...) Why THANK you Mr. Kelly, You're TOO kind! Blacinda :-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 14:52:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 13:22:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: RepitionRepitionRepitionRepition Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:27:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.112755.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" > At least I hope they havent insisted on a discount for quantity like housing developers are prone to do. I often suggest we should ADD a percentage f= or every repeat over two to compensate for the boredom factor!! EliZabeth< No discounts, Elizabeth, but it never occurred to me to charge premium for boredom.... thanks for the great tip! Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 15:21:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 14:14:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: "Susan C. Reitmann" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Tacky Wax Removal Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 17:13:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.131345.0> References: <<1999Apr16.121811.0>> Precedence: bulk Susan C. Reitmann wrote: > > Am in process of completing the "lamp from hell". This was done using a > custom made form ( from wood, shaped like a giant funnel). Because I > thought I may want to reuse the form in the future I covered it with > masking tape before drawing the design on it. Was necessary to use tacky > wax as push pins wouldn't go into the wood. > After flat soldering the outside, I had to put the whole thing in the oven > at 250 degrees for about 20 minutes in order to remove the shade from the > form . Now have the inside flat soldered as well. It now has enough > strength so it maintains it shape as I start to build up the bead on the > solder lines. Now for the questions: > > 1.How do I go about removing the taxy wax that now has formed a thin film > over most of the inside surface of the glass? > 2.Is it correct to remove the wax at this point, or should I continue to > build the solder bead before removing the wax? ( I eventually want to use > black patina for the finishing). > All help most appreciated. I could have saved myself alot of time if I > hadn't covered it with the tape first. I will never reuse this > form.......far too much work!!!!! > Will post a photo on Daniel's site when finished. ( if ever!!) > Sue Reitmann > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i found the best way to remove the gunk is to use oops latex paint remover. acetone should work too. i would wait till the end since any scrubbing may distort the shade. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 16:23:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:16:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: "Jeff Eckes" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: What is a professional??guess I am NOT one........ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:10:16 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.81016.0> Precedence: bulk Because, according to the below identification of doing ORIGINAL WORK, my reproductions of Tiffany lamps take me out of the "professional" category! Next, how do you qualify "good artist"? I feel my craftsmanship is good, and EVEN paying clients seem to think so, too! Is hand made glass better at ensuring archival survival than machine made glass? Perhaps Jeff has left out a few more "qualifiers", such as being paid and making a living at it............I could care less about a title and whether it is craft or art.......JUST so the check clears the bank........Working on a 22" Nasturtium REPRODUCTION that has been ordered for MORE than $7,000.00 without a base and the client probably feels that I am a professional. Nice thing about an internet forum..........one need not know fully what one is talking about to expound on an interpretation. enjoy, H Message text written by "Jeff Eckes" >correctly identifying which is which is the mark of a professional. Jeff Eckes < Here's what I think is the mark of a professional: Someone who is a good artist and is able to render original work with a high degree of artistic merit, and who is also a good craftsman and thus uses the = best proven materials and methods to ensure the archival quality of the work. Both require continuing education... staying up on all the latest and = continually testing the new against the proven from history. For example, like many stained glass artists of this century, we long used Portland cement in our cement recipe.... until we joined = IGGA, got our hands on a copy of "Conservation of Stained Glass in America", and learned = how terribly damaging that old technique really was. Stopped doing that immediately. On the other hand, I still don't see any good reason to invest in a saw. All IMPO of course! Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ "Craft is art that has to work for a living." weaver51@teleport.com Elaine and Howard best lamps on the "net": http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 16:53:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:37:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: "Dani Greer" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: RepitionRepitionRepitionRepition....repair, repair, ETC.! Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:37:25 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.83725.0> Precedence: bulk Should you be in a position to "quote" a price on a repetitive process................ look to be able to set it for jig cutting, using cutoffs, switching pieces to make different colored products, but the same size and shape............Price each one as a separate entity............ MONEY to be earned (professionally?) at our rates for multiplies of the same item, but done in different colors.......An 8 panel 8 piece lamp in less than 2 hours start to finish is within the range for me! Slightly more detailed ones using the cutoffs from one shade for another is also easy and fast and lucrative................ I do not price to try to go below the import stuff, but figure the prices at a (professional?) rate that will make me glad I have 20 or so shades to build! As for fixing broken stuff.........ONLY mine and at a value that makes it worth while. Had a 20" Dragonfly come back with close to a third of the shade damaged. It was very close as to a new one or a repair. Removal of hurt areas without causing more damage is time consuming and tricky as well as trying to match the glass (hand-made of course) and then to re-assemble and so on is also sometimes more time consuming than one from "scratch"......perhaps a few "professionals*" can assist me if I have erred here. *Those who work from an original design! I may have to look at my tax return to see if I do this or qualify as a "professional". Enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com Elaine and Howard best lamps on the "net": http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 17:24:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:54:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr From: CncptThnkr@aol.com To: gecko@ipa.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: picture of a great kilt NG Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 18:49:54 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr17.224954.0> Precedence: bulk unknownsender@unknown.domain To: glass@bungi.com X-Path: ipa.net!gecko From: "a 6'3\", 300 lb. woman... definately not Blake" To: I love it Blacinda IA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 17:38:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:08:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Howard" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: What is a professional??guess I am NOT one........ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 19:06:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.15636.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Howard" >Nice thing about an internet forum..........one need not know fully what= one is talking about to expound on an interpretation. enjoy, H < And sometimes folks just drop a few gems to get a good conversation going again! ;-) Some good = questions you brought up Howard... does work have to be original before one is counted an artist? I = have a friend who is a professional copyist... best oil painter I know. Is she an artist or craftsman...or both? Seems like some of the fine craftsman = through history would put some "fine" artists of today to shame. And, yes, I would say that I agree getting paid and making a living at it puts one into the professional category. So what other qualifiers? Let's try to define the word "professional". And then we can define the word "hobbyist" because I have some opinions about that, too. And, yes, this conversation does relate to glass! Best regards, Dani Greer (working on the last bloody red window...) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 17:56:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:42:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netcom.ca!mfig From: "Mike Figgy" To: "Susan C. Reitmann" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Tacky Wax Removal Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 19:29:27 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.152927.0> References: <<1999Apr16.121811.0>> Precedence: bulk 'Goof Off' - not a joke altho' my wife sometimes wonders... A real product- a solvent cleaner available at 'Home Depot'... Fantasy In Glass, 703 The Queensway, Toronto, Canada, M8Y 1L2 (Tel:416-252-6868) Canada's first and yes, still its only officially sanctioned stained glass supplier. ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan C. Reitmann To: Sent: April 16, 1999 6:18 PM Subject: Tacky Wax Removal : > > 1.How do I go about removing the taxy wax that now has formed a thin film > over most of the inside surface of the glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 18:31:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:57:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass From: "K See" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Common Ground/Source Guide Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 19:46:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.154612.0> Precedence: bulk I received my copy today and it is packed with great information as it is also the 1999 Sources Guide too. So much info in one great book. Thanks Albert, the Board and all those who help put this together. As I've been in printing for 20 years I know the work that went into this. Everyone one should have this issue!! Great Work. K See ps. Dani, looking forward to you next part on painting. Wish I lived closer... Art is the only way to run away without leaving home. Twyla Tharp ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 19:33:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 18:02:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: "suzy@comcat.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG-Funny Dream! Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 17:40:20 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.104020.0> References: <<199904162153.RAA02804@uz.ComCAT.COM>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk > Hey, why not? Somebody...(who?) discovered what...(the carbon atom?) by > dreaming of a snake biting its own tale. You never know, and it can't > hurt. it was the benzene ring...do not know the name...its been a LONG time since I was in college Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 19:44:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 18:27:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!rwl50 From: Rick To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: What is a professional??guess I am NOT one........ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 18:26:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr17.112623.0> Precedence: bulk I guess I too would now have to count myself as a non-professional for the following reasons: 1) I use zinc on my frames, various sizes 2) I have, GASP!! used a glass cutting band saw once 3) I have a medium priced soldering iron 4) I think I might have even cut an "L" shape once and put it in a clients piece... BUT I have made some original designs and I do charge for my work, not to make a living from it yet mind you, I still have a "day-job". I do some very good repairs and restorations for a local studio,(at least the customers think so) and yes, I have a copy of "the book". So while I don't fit the "professional" definition in some peoples eyes, I am fully satisfied with what I am and what I do. Interestingly enough, the same thread runs through the woodworking community, power tools verses chisels and hand saws. Some choose the more traditional method (read old) vs. the wonders of technology. I consider the furniture I make with my table saw and router as good if not better than that made by hand tools, but it doesn't necessarily make me any more or any less a craftsman. The same applies to glass. My opinion. Rick === http://home.fuse.net/crafts _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 22:07:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 20:38:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: "Howard" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: What is a professional??guess I am NOT one........ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 23:30:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.193015.0> References: <<005f01be891f$13d88120$44231ad8@howardru>> Precedence: bulk Allow me to rephrase the statement...ah hell, you got me anyway. I do stand by my comment as far as it goes. It was dealing with a specific subject...ie. Reinforcement, and as such it remains true. Obviously if you do lamps for a living, other criteria would be applied as it would for mosaics, fusing, et al. The point is I think that a professional continues to learn, without prejudice to the source and also has a keen eye for critical observation. BTW...I feel, unlike some, that 'art' is in the craftsmanship as well as the original design. As it has been said "God is in the details" and THAT sums up how I feel about art! (this includes "reproduction artists" as well, so don't feel as if you are "left out". I have been 'working' on a lotus bell lamp for 3 years now, definitely NOT my cup of tea, but I have enormous respect for those that do. Peace! Jeff Eckes -----Original Message----- From: Howard [mailto:weaver51@teleport.com] Sent: Saturday, April 17, 1999 6:10 PM To: Jeff Eckes; Dani Greer; glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What is a professional??guess I am NOT one........ Because, according to the below identification of doing ORIGINAL WORK, my reproductions of Tiffany lamps take me out of the "professional" category! Next, how do you qualify "good artist"? I feel my craftsmanship is good, and EVEN paying clients seem to think so, too! Is hand made glass better at ensuring archival survival than machine made glass? Perhaps Jeff has left out a few more "qualifiers", such as being paid and making a living at it............I could care less about a title and whether it is craft or art.......JUST so the check clears the bank........Working on a 22" Nasturtium REPRODUCTION that has been ordered for MORE than $7,000.00 without a base and the client probably feels that I am a professional. Nice thing about an internet forum..........one need not know fully what one is talking about to expound on an interpretation. enjoy, H Message text written by "Jeff Eckes" >correctly identifying which is which is the mark of a professional. Jeff Eckes < Here's what I think is the mark of a professional: Someone who is a good artist and is able to render original work with a high degree of artistic merit, and who is also a good craftsman and thus uses the = best proven materials and methods to ensure the archival quality of the work. Both require continuing education... staying up on all the latest and = continually testing the new against the proven from history. For example, like many stained glass artists of this century, we long used Portland cement in our cement recipe.... until we joined = IGGA, got our hands on a copy of "Conservation of Stained Glass in America", and learned = how terribly damaging that old technique really was. Stopped doing that immediately. On the other hand, I still don't see any good reason to invest in a saw. All IMPO of course! Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ "Craft is art that has to work for a living." weaver51@teleport.com Elaine and Howard best lamps on the "net": http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 22:17:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 20:38:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: "Bud Britt" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: sending Chemicals in the mail Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 23:30:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.193031.0> References: <<006401be888f$b71bb5e0$4689dfd1@imagine>> Precedence: bulk The retail price for an 8 oz. joos is $8.95. Wholesale by the case (24) only. You might try www.stainedglasswarehouse.com for small quantities. Cliff is a great guy and truly believes in customer service. Also Debbie Taylor (on this list) should have some very soon. Buying wholesale? Try Houston, Art Glass House...OR call your regular supplier and DEMAND that he carry it ...or ask real nice :)... Jeff Eckes -----Original Message----- From: Bud Britt [mailto:computerministry@unitytustin.org] Sent: Saturday, April 17, 1999 1:04 AM To: Jeff Eckes Subject: Re: sending Chemicals in the mail So how much do you charge for a bottle of the joos? Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Eckes To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, April 16, 1999 07:17 PM Subject: RE: sending Chemicals in the mail |If what you are talking about is 'giraffe joos', it can be sent anywhere |through the mail. | |FYI | |Jeff | |-----Original Message----- |From: Toby [mailto:toby@northlights.co.uk] |Sent: Friday, April 16, 1999 9:59 AM |To: glass@bungi.com |Subject: Re: Memory is failing | |Hi Candy, Hi all, |I gather that sending chemicals like that is deeply frowned on a) by |the postal authorities and b) by Customs 'n Excise people. | |Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK | |> Grate polish?? I want some!! |> |> How about going thru the mail? You can get it thru by stating that it's a |'gift'... |> |---- |As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" |North Lights Stained Glass - homepage |http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm |---- |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass | |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 22:28:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 20:39:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: "Dani Greer" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: What is a professional??guess I am NOT one........ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 23:30:18 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.193018.0> References: <<199904171906_MC2-7260-FEAF@compuserve.com>> Precedence: bulk This is where we digress...I DO NOT believe that 'getting paid' or 'making a living from it' qualifies ANYONE as a professional! I see (and repair! *&#%^$) more glass made by 'professionals' than that made by amateurs! The definition needs to be MUCH narrower than that for my taste! Jeff (just getting a conversation going ;-) Eckes -----Original Message----- From: Dani Greer [mailto:GreerStudios@compuserve.com] Sent: Saturday, April 17, 1999 7:07 PM To: Howard Cc: [unknown]; Jeff Eckes; Dani Greer Subject: Re: What is a professional??guess I am NOT one........ Message text written by "Howard" >Nice thing about an internet forum..........one need not know fully what one is talking about to expound on an interpretation. enjoy, H < And sometimes folks just drop a few gems to get a good conversation going again! ;-) Some good questions you brought up Howard... does work have to be original before one is counted an artist? I have a friend who is a professional copyist... best oil painter I know. Is she an artist or craftsman...or both? Seems like some of the fine craftsman through history would put some "fine" artists of today to shame. And, yes, I would say that I agree getting paid and making a living at it puts one into the professional category. So what other qualifiers? Let's try to define the word "professional". And then we can define the word "hobbyist" because I have some opinions about that, too. And, yes, this conversation does relate to glass! Best regards, Dani Greer (working on the last bloody red window...) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 22:36:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 20:41:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: horizontal support >>myth based on eronious observation<< [here I go again!] Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 23:32:18 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.193218.0> References: <<1999Apr18.3384.0>> Precedence: bulk Good point Debbie, The reason I use a 3/4" zinc in this situation is that I am screwing the frame directly to the wood surround of the window. The extra space in the zinc is exactly what I want. Jeff Eckes -----Original Message----- From: daver!one.net!kleeman [mailto:daver!one.net!kleeman] Sent: Saturday, April 17, 1999 2:00 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: horizontal support >>myth based on eronious observation<< [here I go again!] i agree with the usage of zinc, but not with the larger width zinc. i believe the large zinc gives less support because all you are adding is a larger air pocket. the 1/4" zinc has more metal and less air space, which has more strength debbie debbie jo taylor kleeman@one.net http://www.taylordexpressions.com your complete stained glass supply source 1-888-488-9616 On Friday, April 16, 1999 7:11 PM, Dani Greer [SMTP:GreerStudios@compuserve.com] wrote: > Message text written by "Jeff Eckes" > >If you make your windows with AT LEAST a 1/2" ZINC or hard metal border > >= > (I > prefer 3/4" zinc)< > > We refuse to use zinc because the solder joints fail > more readily over a long period of time than lead > joints.... also, since we install almost all of our work, > it's nice to be able to plane down the outside border > as needed to fit the window opening... ain't hardly > anything square on this planet. There has also > been considerable discussion on this forum that > zinc creates a problem for students who are using > cheaper soldering irons - the zinc contamination > raises the eutectic point of the solder and those > student irons just aren't running hot enough to = > > melt the solder. = > > > Best, > > Dani Greer > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 22:46:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 21:09:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Jeff Eckes" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: What is a professional/Amateurs?.... Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 00:08:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.2088.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Jeff Eckes" >Jeff (just getting a conversation going ;-) Eckes < Someday, if I ever retire, I'm going to be an amateur glass artist. Why? So I have the luxury of time to spend on a window. And, so I can build a piece with 3,000 pieces and not worry about wasting glass or meeting a deadline. It's always been my opinion that an amateur who has worked in glass for a number of years should be leaving the pros in the dust... their works should be the = masterpieces. = Just finished the last bloody window on this bloody church job.... well, at least the bottom halves. Now to finish firing the medallions, then start building the top halves for nine windows and a baptistry window. Has to be installed on Tuesday.... someday.... no more deadlines . What do you think would happen if I told a customer I can't give them a delivery date.... it'll get done whenever... I'll let them know when it's ready for install! ;--)) Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 23:09:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 22:06:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Jeff Eckes" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: What is a professional??guess I am NOT one........ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 00:08:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.2085.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Jeff Eckes" > I see (and repair! *&#%^$) more glass made by 'professionals' than that made by amateurs! Hmmm... you might have a point there... we've had the same = experience. Fortunately, we're very happy to send repairs = elsewhere these days. It'll be interesting to see if we can sort of agree on a definition in this thread! For me, a picture = is worth a thousand words. I had a young man in Hawaii send me his portfolio for review... he wanted a journeyman position with us. I told him his work was good enough to hang out his own shingle.... he didn't need to work for = anyone else anymore. His work had "professional" written all over it. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 17 23:42:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 22:09:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!glasslass2 From: glasslass2@webtv.net (Val Dvorak) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: craft show booths Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 01:02:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr17.2121.0> Precedence: bulk Hi All, I have never done craft show yet, I mostly sell out of little craft shops and garden centers. My question is it worth all the trouble setting up, packing, being in a booth all weekend long? I've been thinking about trying to do one. Any advice would be appricated. Thanks Val ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 00:14:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 23:03:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------6C91400B79F3" Subject: kewl link Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 22:40:29 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.154029.0> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6C91400B79F3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit howdy....for those of you who are celtic art fans I just discovered a WONDERFUL web site.....hopefully the link will come thru....this is not stained glass design per se...but I suspect the pen and ink designs transfer to many mediums, including glass...I discovered this via a tattoo artists home page.....enjoy:) Liz --------------6C91400B79F3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii; name="welcome.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="welcome.html" Content-Base: "http://www.wdi.co.uk/celtic/welcome.ht ml" Welcome to Celtic Art.com

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--------------6C91400B79F3-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 01:46:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 00:24:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: pro? hobbiest? me? Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 02:19:49 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.211949.0> Precedence: bulk I'm a damn good student! ;o) T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 02:39:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 01:02:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Val Dvorak" Subject: Re: Craft show booths Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 01:01:14 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.18114.0> Precedence: bulk >>I have never done craft show yet, I mostly sell out of little craft shops and garden centers. My question is it worth all the trouble setting up, packing, being in a booth all weekend long? I've been thinking about trying to do one. Any advice would be appricated. Thanks Val<< Could be worthwhile but only if you have a saleable product and are willing and able to sell it. A lot of people make their living this way. There must be something to it. Some observations: 1. Your product needs to fit in with the tone of the craft show. It is not likely that high end windows will sell well at a craft show where the average price of offerings is $20.00. Displaying one or two high end items is a good idea though, 2. You must sell yourself before your crafts. Sitting around with earphones on will not do much to entice sales. People will tend to not disturb you, 3. You simply must be at ease with making strangers welcome and playing the roll of the salesperson. If you do you should make a fair share of the sales available. 4. You need a display that fits in well with others at the fair. A couple of boxes thrown together will not normaly do. If the above is not a good fit with you then perhaps you know someone that has these talents. There is no reason why a good craftsperson can not employ a good salesperson. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 04:10:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 02:39:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: excite.com!bigblast1999 From: To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Blast Your Advertisement to 1-5-10-or 25 Million Recipiants !!! Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 01:58:39 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk We Can Mail For You Now, while these prices last !!! *First time customer Special !!! *Advertise to 1 Million people for $999 SALE $699.00 *Advertise to 5 Million people for $2999 SALE $1999.00 *Advertise to 10 Million people for $4999 SALE $2999.00 ( the Blast ) *Advertise to 25 Million people for $9999 SALE $4999.00 ( the Big Blast ) Targeted Mailing is possible at a rate of $199 per 25,000 (A $25 set up fee for all mailings under a million) (FOR MORE INFOMATION OR ORDERING PLEASE CALL US @ 504 957 1037) or (800) 242-0363 EXT. 2427 ORDERING OR INFO _________________________________________________________________ WANT TO DO IT YOURSELF _________________________________________________________________ 2 Million eMail Address + FREE Bulk Mailer........... $199.00 5 Million eMail Address + FREE Bulk Mailers.......... $299.00 15 Million eMail Address + FREE Bulk Mailer........... $499.00 (very fresh) (TARGETED OR REGIONAL LIST PRICING PLEASE CALL 504 957 1037 !!!) or (800) 242-0363 EXT. 2427 If this e-mail was an inconvenience to you we appologize. We are a Member of National Organization of Internet Commerce. To have your name added to our universal remove list please go to remove@noic.org and the name will be added and distributed to all of our members. winner-2 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 05:40:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 04:16:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "Elizabeth Arakelian" , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Re: kewl link Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:15:37 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.31537.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE896B.41D16320 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry Liz, No link came through on this end. Linda Jo -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, April 18, 1999 3:15 AM Subject: kewl link howdy....for those of you who are celtic art fans I just discovered a WONDERFUL web site.....hopefully the link will come thru....this is not stained glass design per se...but I suspect the pen and ink designs transfer to many mediums, including glass...I discovered this via a tattoo artists home page.....enjoy:) Liz ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE896B.41D16320 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sorry Liz, No link came through on = this=20 end.
Linda = Jo
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: = glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date:=20 Sunday, April 18, 1999 3:15 AM
Subject: kewl=20 link

howdy....for those of you who are celtic = art fans I=20 just discovered a
WONDERFUL web site.....hopefully the link will = come=20 thru....this is not
stained glass design per se...but I suspect = the pen=20 and ink designs
transfer to many mediums, including glass...I = discovered=20 this via a
tattoo artists home=20 page.....enjoy:)

Liz
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE896B.41D16320-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 06:41:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 05:13:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!ezcomezgo From: rrk To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG-Funny Dream! Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 05:17:36 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.221736.0> References: <<1999Apr17.104020.0>> Precedence: bulk Elizabeth Arakelian wrote: > > Hey, why not? Somebody...(who?) discovered what...(the carbon atom?) by > > dreaming of a snake biting its own tale. You never know, and it can't > > hurt. > > it was the benzene ring...do not know the name...its been a LONG time > since I was in college The man's name was Friedrich Kekule and he lived in the mid-19th century in what we would now call Germany. The modern state of "Germany" didn't exist until bloody Bismark's time, starting around 1870, by which time Kekule was dead. Chemistry was not well developed at that time to say the least. Quantum theory was not yet developed and neither was most of what we would call modern chemistry. One of the big problems confronting chemists of the time was "aromaticity". There were essentially 2 groups of chemically pure substances containing only carbon and hydrogen. One group had set A of physical properties and were called "aromatic" and the other group had set B of physical properties. Nobody had any explanation that held water as to why they were different. Kekule proposed that the aromatics had a flat rigid cyclic structure with some of the electrons that formed the chemical bonds between the carbon atom being in a ring above the flat ring of bonded carbon atoms. According to him, he was on a bus one day and fell into a daydream. In his dream he saw a snake swallowing its own tail. This dream inspired him to propose his theory. And his theory turned out to be true, to accurately model that which is. To this day chemists call the stick drawings of hexagons with alternating double lines Kekule structures. It is now known that aromaticity is due to molecular orbital hybridization and so on ... but Kekule was essentially right. Anyway ... you asked. Regards .......... Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 09:42:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 08:11:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: What is a professional/Amateurs?.... Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 08:10:08 -0700 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990418081008.00a0b100@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> References: <<1999Apr17.2088.0>> Precedence: bulk At 12:08 AM 4/18/99 -0400, Dani Greer wrote: > >Someday, if I ever retire, I'm going to be an >amateur glass artist. Why? So I have the >luxury of time to spend on a window. And, >so I can build a piece with 3,000 pieces and >not worry about wasting glass or meeting a >deadline. It's always been my opinion that >an amateur who has worked in glass for a >number of years should be leaving the pros >in the dust... their works should be the >masterpieces. You've said something here that really resonates with me. I find myself curiously detached from the various amateur/pro/efficiency threads. They certainly convince me I've got a long way to go before I could consider myself a pro with even a teeny, weeny 'p'. But I don't feel badly about that. I like working with glass, and it doesn't bother me that I'm not a speed demon. I've got terrible work habits. I switch from cutting to foiling to soldering whenever I feel like it. Hell, I even throw in a little guilt-free grinding now and again! My piece per hour rate may be in the 10th percentile for the group, but I'm sure having fun. I'm having a bit of a mid-life career crisis these days, and one of my fantasies is to bid software writing adieu and to try to make a living doing glass. But then I begin to wonder if such a move would lessen my love of glass. After I finished with taxes, my first instinct was to give myself the rest of the day off to work on glass. I realized how strongly that sentiment marked my current position on the amateur-professional continuum. If I were a pro, my first instinct might have been to do anything *but* glass that afternoon. Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 10:18:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 08:56:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: msn.com!JuraB From: "Jura Burdinik" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: stained glass exposure Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:44:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.74441.0> Precedence: bulk If I install a copper foil stained glass window in my bathroom, what effect will steam and water have on 60-40 solder, black patina and kem-pro polish? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 10:55:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 09:34:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bardstown.com!glassx From: "Glass Expressions" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: magnolia pattern Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:35:21 +0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.193521.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE898F.8AA43AE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi i'm the newbie who now knows not to put letter in caps and hope that = our format in now in regular text not mimi if so please advise of where = i can find this and how to change (thanks for all the support and help) = i've tried searching pattern search for a magnolia floal pattern = however no luck could someone suggest a nice one for a beginner to start = with if not maybea more complicated one can be revised alittle. i enjoy = all the messages and info that come with the web page. Thanks so much = in advance for all your help- ricky ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE898F.8AA43AE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
hi i'm the newbie who now knows not = to put=20 letter in caps and hope that our format in now in regular text not mimi = if so=20 please advise of where i can find this and how to change (thanks for all = the=20 support and help)  i've tried searching  pattern search for a = magnolia=20 floal pattern however no luck could someone suggest a nice one for a = beginner to=20 start with if not maybea more complicated one can be revised = alittle.  i=20 enjoy all the messages and info that come with the web page.  = Thanks so=20 much in advance for all your help- ricky
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE898F.8AA43AE0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 11:22:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 09:46:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: What is a professional??guess I am NOT one........ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:43:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.8439.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Dani Greer >And, yes, I would say that I agree getting paid and making a living at it puts one into the professional category. So what other qualifiers? Let's try to define the word "professional". And then we can define the word "hobbyist" because I have some opinions about that, too. And, yes, this conversation does relate to glass!< I'm too busy with commissions to get into this conversation too deeply. Signing off now to go do something professional.... like earn a living... Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 11:55:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:15:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "Val Dvorak" , "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: craft show booths Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:09:36 -0400 Message-ID: <199904181710.NAA26454@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 4/18/99 1:02 AM Val Dvorak glasslass2@webtv.net >Hi All, >I have never done craft show yet, I mostly sell out of little craft >shops and garden centers. My question is it worth all the trouble >setting up, packing, being in a booth all weekend long? I've been >thinking about trying to do one. Any advice would be appricated. Pick your shows carefully. Try to find ones that have a strong local following with good crafts, not "crows on a stick" as Christie says. Stay away from flea markets, people are only looking for bargains. Bob's advice was good. Stay "up" and alert, be happy and others will feel it. Have someone to relieve you for lunch and a couple of breaks. I find best sellers at our local craft fairs run in the 10-25 dollar range. But have a couple of spectacular items if you can. Be sure to take your "brag book," it stops people and gets them thinking. Yes it's a lot of work and as I get older it gets harder - but my last one in December netted me $500 and that was definitely worth it. Good luck, and let us know how you do. Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 12:10:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:19:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "bungi.com" Subject: pro vs. non-pro Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:05:25 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.9525.0> Precedence: bulk LJ's 2 1/2 cents Was Vincent VanGogh a professional artist since he never sold a work in his lifetime? Maybe drawing it up and cranking out work and making money at it isn't the only criteria for an artist. I have known several wonderful, talented artists that have never sold a piece but I still consider them artists in every sense of the word. (but then what do I know) I can think of one woman that is beyond just talent, and sits and does pencil drawings while watching TV, and maybe a 1/2 dozen people have even seen her portfolio. I consider her an artist, her drawings are...............well as great as anything I have paid big $$$ for. Women for a couple hundred years have made quits which are wonderful pieces of art, but there are some old stand by standard quilt patterns that I hear every quit person does in their quilting career. Some of those 100 year old quilts are still wonderful pieces of art. Oh no!!, can't be because they didn't draw up the pattern originally........ or sell the quilt. Every time this subject comes up I am going to pipe up yet again. Art is in the eye of the beholder and not every person is seeing the same thing, or valuing the same thing. I think some folks are enamoured with their status in the art community, cut some of us lesser beings a little slack. If someone sells their original design and fabricated work to Wal-mart is it not art because ...............and why is that???????? They designed it, and made and they are selling it.......... And someone bought it. Oh maybe that is "low art." The way artists are nurtured surely isn't to beat them down because they don't sell, don't work fast or whatever or don't do it your way. If we know something (whatever it is) we should share and bring up the ones that are coming behind..... Folks you are too tied up in High Art, Low Art, Pro, Non-pro. Why not embrace everyone's art. I have seen big time doo doo out there, but someone thinks it is art and it is in national galleries, so I say to myself, oh well...... and press on... I don't bother thinking of what type of art it is. I find glass a wonderful medium, however we do it, blow it, cut it, heat it, torch it, and I think everyone creates what they can, what they like, what they can sell or give away. Linda Jo Linda Jo ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 12:21:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:06:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Jeff Eckes Subject: Re: L shaped cuts Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 17:40:15 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.184015.0> References: <<1999Apr16.101818.0@?>> Precedence: bulk Some scientists describe glass as an amorphous solid (as opposed to fluid or supercooled liquid). This gets into the right area of thinking. Steve In message <1999Apr16.101818.0@?>, Jeff Eckes writes >Charles, >I believe what you remember is a quote relating to glass a "liquid". >Some folks use this instead of 'fluid'. >Lokk in a good encyclopedia and you will find that glass is a "...fluid in a >solid state..." Not that doesn't confuse the issue even more! > >Jeff Eckes > >(by the way, I MEANT to write that mercury was a LIQUID here and a SOLID on >Neptune. Sorry) > >-----Original Message----- >From: Charles Spitzer [mailto:charles_spitzer@stratus.com] >Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 9:12 AM >To: glassgiraffe@earthlink.net >Subject: RE: L shaped cuts > >i believe, in the last couple of years, that i read somewhere that glass is >neither fluid or solid, but 'something else'. the reason is that it >exhibits properties of both, sometimes at the same time. i don't have a >recent url tho that points to this. > >regards, >charlie > >At 01:43 PM 4/15/99 -0400, you wrote: >>I have been following this thread for some time and I have a few comments >>(oh nooooo....) then I HAVE TO go do marbles! >> >>1. Those who say that a "L" shaped cut WILL eventually fracture are wrong >>2. Those who say that an "l" shaped cut MAY eventually fracture are >correct. >> >>I have seen 100 year old glass panels with perfectly intact "l" shoped cuts >>(and WORSE!) as well as 2 week old panels with the same cut that is cracked >>in the obvious place. >>It depends as much on how you distribute the internal stresses in a panel >as >>to what shapes you cut. >> >>ALSO: if you want to determine what kind of stresses are present in a >>particular piece of glass, just use a polariscope to find out (try it on >>some of your favorite glass to see if it is annealed properly, you might be >>surprised!) the same as if you where fusing. >> >>KEEP THIS IN MIND: glass is a FLUID which is usually encountered in its >>frozen state (on the planet Mercury it would be liquid, like mercury is >>solid on this planet but not on Neptune. Truly an issue of perspective, >>no?) Therefore most of the dynamics of solid mechanics goes out the >window. >>Look to FLUID mechanics (hydraulic) for the true skinny on glass. > >-- >Charles Spitzer >Stratus Computer, Inc >Speaking from Stratus, not for Stratus, Ascend, or Lucent > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 12:47:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:06:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Jeff Eckes Subject: Re: Do you want less bungi messages? Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 17:12:47 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.181247.0> References: <<1999Apr15.94326.0@?>> Precedence: bulk Not every one on Bungi would be happy with your suggested change, Jeff. Steve In message <1999Apr15.94326.0@?>, Jeff Eckes writes >I have a question for the list momma, > >Can you configure the list so that it always comes "from" glass@bunji.com ? >If you could it would be a MAJOR boon to thise of us who configure our mail >clients to 'dump' mailings from different lists directly into a separate >file. As it is now, I need to go through all the mail and separate out the >bunji stuff. If you need some info on configuration, please feel free to >email me. :) > >Jeff Eckes > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Daniel M. German [mailto:dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca] >Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 7:42 PM >To: glass@bungi.com >Subject: Do you want less bungi messages? > > > >For some time I have being reading one or two messages a day with the >collection of the messages posted during it ("digest" version of >bungi). I configure this list to avoid to deal with every single >message. Since the configuration is done already, and working, anybody >who wants can try it. > >If you want to receive it, send a message to >majordomo@csgrs6k1.uwaterloo.ca > >In the body of the message write: > >subscribe bungi-digest
> >where
is your email address. > > > >Messages are sent at 24:00, every day. Or more often if there are many >postings. > >dmg > > >-- >Daniel M. German >http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html >dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 12:57:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:24:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: What is a professional?? >defined by attitude/quality more than ability to make $$< Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:15:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.101529.0> References: <<011301be8960$90980460$44231ad8@howardru>> Precedence: bulk Howard, Doing something as a "profession" and 'being a professional' are two VERY distinct and separate things. I know lots of people in all kinds of 'professions' that I emphatically DO NOT consider 'professional' by ANY definition. On the other hand, as Danny points out, I have known a few (VERY FEW) 'amateurs' that could easily wear the mantle of 'professional'. We can agree to disagree here if you wish, but I have VERY strong views here. I think Dani comes close to the mark in by relating it to the quality of the work. Excelent work denotes a certain attitude toward the craft AND the customer that TRULY defines "professional' for me. Just because someone can 'make a living' doing something DOES NOT mean that they are a professional in my book. When I get back from the GAS conference I want to address this thread and write down all of my 'qualifications' that I think define a professional. Unfortunately, right now I need to make marbles! Peace! Jeff Eckes -----Original Message----- From: Howard [mailto:weaver51@teleport.com] Sent: Sunday, April 18, 1999 1:59 AM To: Jeff Eckes Subject: Re: What is a professional??guess I am NOT one........ what is the criteria you use to qualify a professional. How many people bring to you "amateur or hobby work" to fix? If their Aunt Martha made it and it fell apart would you get to see it, or is it just hidden away? How much of the "professional" work had failed from incorrect assembly, rather than from abuse. IMHO work commissioned and pay received that equates to a living wage (here we separate a hobbiest who works just to pay for their habit) even if part time does this "professionally". One who takes a few years to do a shade and decides to put it up for sale and gets someone to buy it (usually cheap) is not a professional (IMHO). It is the ability to sell it, the repeat sales, people asking you to do something for pay, touting you to others, showing and or selling in and to galleries and stores, making reasonable commitments (and keeping them) and so on does qualify you as doing this professionally.......with experience you do improve quality, BUT lack of quality or skill does not preclude you doing this a profession, just re-enforces that there is someone out there who will buy "anything" enjoy, h weaver51@teleport.com Elaine and Howard best lamps on the "net": http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 13:14:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:25:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: horizontal support >>myth based on eronious observation<< [here I go again!] Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:15:32 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.101532.0> References: <<199904180617.XAA05942@oceanus.island.net>> Precedence: bulk In my neck of the woods, if I get a panel that close to the window and/or don't leave air space behind the frame, it tends to get quite a bit of condensation between the panel and the window. What I would check out for possibilities is a zinc profile called 'special h'. it looks like a 'small h' and would allow you to get it closer to the glazing, at a sacrifice to strength. Send me a self addressed and stamped envelope and I will send you a small piece if you need it. Send to: The Glass Giraffe 37 Depot St Waynesville, NC 28786 ATTN: Jeff Good luck! Jeff Eckes -----Original Message----- From: seaspray@island.net [mailto:seaspray@island.net] Sent: Sunday, April 18, 1999 2:17 AM To: Jeff Eckes Subject: RE: horizontal support >>myth based on eronious observation<< [here I go again!] >Good point Debbie, >The reason I use a 3/4" zinc in this situation is that I am screwing the >frame directly to the wood surround of the window. The extra space in the >zinc is exactly what I want. Jeff...here's a similar question for you. Lately I've been running into a lot of vinyl windows that have a second 1/2" lip about 1/2" in from the glass...so I can't install the stained glass very close at all to the outer window. This tends to really reduce the visibility of the glass from outside and a couple of my clients have been less than happy. How do you handle this inner lip...is there a way to get the s.g. panel up closer to the outer window? C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 13:33:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:25:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: FW: glass as fluid/solid [was] L shaped cuts Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:15:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.101526.0> Precedence: bulk Feel pretty stupid, Sent this to "gungi.com"..... Oh well, better late than never Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Eckes [mailto:glassgiraffe@earthlink.net] Sent: Saturday, April 17, 1999 11:31 PM To: Albert Lewis; glass@gungi.com Subject: RE:glass as fluid/solid [was] L shaped cuts The site does not respond...will try later though. I may stand corrected...that's what it means to "learn" though. Am also looking up the matter from my own sources. I guess I spend so much time working with molten glass that it just seems natural to view it as a fluid. Will let you know what I learn if different. Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis [mailto:alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net] Sent: Friday, April 16, 1999 2:35 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: L shaped cuts > I believe what you remember is a quote relating to glass a "liquid". > Some folks use this instead of 'fluid'. Lokk in a good encyclopedia > and you will find that glass is a "...fluid in a solid state..." > Not that doesn't confuse the issue even more! Charles is right on this one, I'm afraid. See http://www.desy.de/user/projects/Physics/glass.html Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 13:34:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:32:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Steve Wernecke Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: What is a professional/Amateurs?.... Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:29:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.102933.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Steve Wernecke > It's always been my opinion that >an amateur who has worked in glass for a >number of years should be leaving the pros >in the dust... their works should be the >masterpieces.< There's a marvelous full-page add that Wissmach Glass Co. has used forever, and they use it again in the Spring 99 issue of Profitable Glass Quarterly. In full color is a floral oval window by the K.M. Phillips Studio in Pittsburgh, PA. It's a fabulous piece and it's exactly what I'm talking about when I say that amateurs can aspire to the finest level of stained glass. This is the type of work that most professional glass artists will not do simply because the labor costs make it prohibitive... most of the public simply would not pay what this window is worth. Even my spec pieces can't be that involved or I would never get two dozen pieces together for a show! = Best, Dani Greer (if you don't hear from me for a few days.... you know what I'= m doing!) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 13:47:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:56:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "Jura Burdinik" , "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: stained glass exposure Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:51:51 -0400 Message-ID: <199904181852.OAA03086@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 4/18/99 11:44 AM Jura Burdinik JuraB@msn.com >If I install a copper foil stained glass window in my bathroom, what effect >will steam and water have on 60-40 solder, black patina and kem-pro polish? > I had one hanging right next to the tub. Over time the water, or acid in the water, stained the glass and I haven't been able to remove it. Any magic solutions out there? Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 13:49:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:39:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Jeff Eckes Subject: Re: L shaped cuts Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 17:10:21 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.181021.0> References: <<1999Apr15.94330.0@?>> Precedence: bulk Jeff, Why would glass be a liquid on Mercury? Is the surface temperature that high? Ignorance is not bliss. From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 13:53:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:42:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Christie A. Wood" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: What is a professional??guess I am NOT one........ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:40:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.10407.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Christie A. Wood" >Signing off now to go do something professional.... like earn a living... < Haha... boy can I relate to that! Working on Sunday and in the mud room, no less! Best, Dani ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 14:11:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:16:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mindspring.com!pigznpawz From: "Jerri" To: "Glass Expressions" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: magnolia pattern Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 15:14:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.111451.0> References: <<1999Apr18.193521.0>> Precedence: bulk There's one of a round panel in the book "Tropical Gardens" by Leslie Gibbs. I made if for a gift. It came out nice. Jerri > > hi i'm the newbie who now knows not to put letter in caps and hope that = > our format in now in regular text not mimi if so please advise of where = > i can find this and how to change (thanks for all the support and help) = > i've tried searching pattern search for a magnolia floal pattern = > however no luck could someone suggest a nice one for a beginner to start = > with if not maybea more complicated one can be revised alittle. i enjoy = > all the messages and info that come with the web page. Thanks so much = > in advance for all your help- ricky > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 14:30:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:43:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: pro vs. non-pro Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 15:49:35 +0000 Message-ID: <199904181941.PAA05871@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Was Vincent VanGogh a professional artist since he never sold a work > in his lifetime? I agree with you, Linda Jo. There are lots of artists who never sell their work, which doesn't mean they're "lesser" artists at all. But as soon as they sell their work to support themselves, they've become "professional." Michael Jordan as a kid was perhaps an excellent basketball player. When he was offered (and accepted) payment to pay basketball, he became a "professional." Obviously, he wouldn't have been offered anything if he hadn't been an "artist" at what he does, but the money makes him professional. Those who do anything without payment are, in this sense of the definitions, "amateurs." But it used to be a requirement that those who participated in the Olympics be amateurs. They were still the best in the world; they just weren't *paid. That's what separated them from "professionals." Now, none of the above means that all "professional" artists make a living at what they do; they just charge for their work. It doesn't necessarily make them good at it, either. Just paid. If they're not paid enough, they can't continue being professional, 'cause they go out of business. If they weren't charging enough, they were being "unbusinesslike," which is a whole 'nother topic. So if one's an amateur, in this sense, what's to be ashamed of? Nothing: you're right up there with the Olympians of the past. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 14:43:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:45:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: What is a professional??guess I am NOT one........ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:43:42 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.54342.0> Precedence: bulk I think the North American tax people would say a professional was someone doing work with the intent of making money. I know the U.S.A. - I.R.S. guideline as of about 15 years ago was that you had to make a profit at least on year out of every three. Otherwise they would call you a hobbyist and tell you that you could not deduct what you were doing. Now, for everyone else who is not an income tax auditor... I personally feel a "professional attitude" has to do with wanting to seriously do the job right - no matter what it is your doing. Therefore a "crafts person" with a "professional attitude" would be trying to perform their craft with quality and attention to detail. If part of what they were doing was also customer service, then a professional attitude would also include wanting to treat the customer right. (Hey, I suppose if one was a con-artist then a professional attitude would be doing a good job of ripping people off? :-) Now as to what a "professional artist" is, I don't know. I can't even begin to define what an artist is, so how could I know what a professional artist is? When I create a piece which evokes some emotion in people or makes them see the world in a new light, then I would say I was an artist that day. This is true even if my craft was below par or the piece was transient in nature. So, if you are the tax people: then I'm a professional (truly I am!... I have the receipts here to prove it... just hold on a sec...) Otherwise, I just do what I do and try to do the best job I can. The labels be damned. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 15:00:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:31:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Steve Wernecke" , Subject: Re: What is a professional/Amateurs?.... Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:19:07 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.6197.0> Precedence: bulk Thank you for writing. I too have a so-called low piece per hour rate. Just got done doing a butterfly with about 90 pieces, took about three days, fits on a 8.5" x 11" sheet of paper, some on the list have said in previous emails that something that small would only take a few hours for them, and that that much detail is not worth it in a small project. I love the details that I take the time to include in a piece, the angel bridge panel that I did for Mom's birthday, includes the shadows on the bridge from the children's legs, and the small edges of the boards, to maintain the 3-dimensional look of the boards on the bridge. And it is not a big panel, only 16" across (circle panel). It sounds like we work on stuff, about the same, and it works for me also. Thank you once again for writing, to be honest, was feeling like somehow I was not measuring up to the bar that seems to be being placed, by certain threads, only that is a personal thing, not about the threads. Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, April 18, 1999 11:39 AM Subject: RE: What is a professional/Amateurs?.... |At 12:08 AM 4/18/99 -0400, Dani Greer wrote: |> |>Someday, if I ever retire, I'm going to be an |>amateur glass artist. Why? So I have the |>luxury of time to spend on a window. And, |>so I can build a piece with 3,000 pieces and |>not worry about wasting glass or meeting a |>deadline. It's always been my opinion that |>an amateur who has worked in glass for a |>number of years should be leaving the pros |>in the dust... their works should be the |>masterpieces. | |You've said something here that really resonates with me. I find myself |curiously detached from the various amateur/pro/efficiency threads. They |certainly convince me I've got a long way to go before I could consider |myself a pro with even a teeny, weeny 'p'. But I don't feel badly about |that. I like working with glass, and it doesn't bother me that I'm not a |speed demon. | |I've got terrible work habits. I switch from cutting to foiling to |soldering whenever I feel like it. Hell, I even throw in a little |guilt-free grinding now and again! My piece per hour rate may be in the |10th percentile for the group, but I'm sure having fun. | |I'm having a bit of a mid-life career crisis these days, and one of my |fantasies is to bid software writing adieu and to try to make a living |doing glass. But then I begin to wonder if such a move would lessen my |love of glass. After I finished with taxes, my first instinct was to give |myself the rest of the day off to work on glass. I realized how strongly |that sentiment marked my current position on the amateur-professional |continuum. If I were a pro, my first instinct might have been to do |anything *but* glass that afternoon. | |Steve |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 15:17:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:56:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What is a professional/Amateurs?.... Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:54:57 -0700 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990418135457.00a094f0@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> References: <<002f01be89d8$b85e94a0$5e89dfd1@imagine>> Precedence: bulk At 01:19 PM 4/18/99 -0700, Bud Britt wrote: > >Thank you once again for writing, to be honest, was feeling like somehow I >was not measuring up to the bar that seems to be being placed, by certain >threads, only that is a personal thing, not about the threads. > Don't worry about measuring up. I've seen bars at a lot of levels in this group. There's surely one at the right height! Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 15:32:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:53:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Fantastic Glass Dome !!! Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 21:49:31 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.144931.0> Precedence: bulk Check This OUT !!! http://caroling.holyoak.com/Trips/Wholeo/GlassDome/sito/exhibits/wholeo/whGI FColoredLight.html Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 15:46:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:15:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: L shaped cuts Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 17:23:01 +0000 Message-ID: <199904182115.RAA07598@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Why would glass be a liquid on Mercury? Is the surface > temperature that high? Nope. Five seconds' search on askjeeves.com reveals, "The surface temperature of Mercury is characterized by major fluctuations. The daytime side of the planet reaches over 400 degrees C (752 degrees F)." You could burn a cake badly, but glass wouldn'tslump, fuse, melt, boil ... nothing. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 16:01:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:29:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: celtic art link Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:07:28 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.7728.0> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk okay, heres the deal...what I found on my post to the group is that it attached the top page of the URL....apparently when you press the "enter here" thingie it DOES put you into the web site, not exactly a "link" the same way other people have done them but I believe it is accessible thru what I posted.......I am BARELY computer literate so I am amazed I got this far:) let me know if this works..if not I will fish around and get the URL. I put his in my bookmark folder on netscape and somehow it doesnt give you back the URL...and since I accessed it via a link on yet another page...somehow I cannot find the actual URL.. Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 17:47:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 16:42:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cros.net!soraya From: "Soraya" To: "Elizabeth Arakelian" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: kewl link Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 19:40:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.154049.0> References: <<1999Apr17.154029.0>> Precedence: bulk Welcome to Celtic Art.comThe addy to the site is: http://www.wdi.co.uk/celtic/1.htm Davis' work is used on alot of the books I have around here (history, mytholgy, folklore, religios texts....etc etc etc)....very easy style to pick out after awhile.....I have wanted to do some knot work in glass...but just drawing the knots out makes my eyes cross!! Not to mention, I would think it would best be done in copper foil and I prefer working with lead came....so...another project to put on hold!! Take Care, Soraya ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 18:17:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 17:09:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass From: "K See" To: "Elizabeth Arakelian" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: celtic art link Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 19:58:32 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.155832.0> References: <<1999Apr18.7728.0>> Precedence: bulk I was able to get in without a problem. You can always copy a URL and than paste it to you email. K See Art is the only way to run away without leaving home. Twyla Tharp ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: Sent: Sunday, April 18, 1999 5:07 PM Subject: celtic art link | okay, heres the deal...what I found on my post to the group is that it | attached the top page of the URL....apparently when you press the "enter | here" thingie it DOES put you into the web site, not exactly a "link" | the same way other people have done them but I believe it is accessible | thru what I posted.......I am BARELY computer literate so I am amazed I | got this far:) let me know if this works..if not I will fish around and | get the URL. I put his in my bookmark folder on netscape and somehow it | doesnt give you back the URL...and since I accessed it via a link on yet | another page...somehow I cannot find the actual URL.. | | Liz | ---- | For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com | To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com | Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass | ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 18:35:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 16:55:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Albert Lewis" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: pro vs. non-pro Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 19:53:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.155328.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Albert Lewis" > Obviously, he wouldn't have been offered anything if he hadn't been = an "artist" at what he does, but the money makes him professional. = Those who do anything without payment are, in this sense of the = definitions, "amateurs." But it used to be a requirement that those who participated in the = Olympics be amateurs. They were still the best in the world; they = just weren't *paid. That's what separated them from "professionals."< I guess the above is also a top criteria for me.... if the person is making a living at it, even if it's schmalz they're selling, well than they are "professionals" (although sometimes professional "what"? is debatable!) And, equally important to me, does the person act professionally.... are they following a professional code of conduct... perhaps it's not written, but it's certainly understood amongst the group members. Just some more thoughts. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 18:49:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 17:19:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "bungi group" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Fw: Made In USA Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 20:13:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.161354.0> Precedence: bulk I just read this one on a news group. I guess the Rosen group have now become the product police. Odd that they would do this.......since many of their Crafters at the Buyers market are from Canada. my best, pj -----Original Message----- From: M. R. Daniels Newsgroups: alt.crafts.professional Date: Friday, April 16, 1999 9:57 PM Subject: Made In USA >The Rosen group just announced that in the year 2000 we must all have >"Made in USA" on our products. Anyone know the exact legality of this? >Does "art" need this stamp, too? How is everyone complying with this? (I >understand it is a govt. thing...........I really do need to go live on >an island somewhere.) >M.R. Daniels > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 19:49:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 18:17:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" , Subject: Fantastic Glass Dome !!! Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 16:17:14 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.91714.0> Precedence: bulk I just sent you the link again, went to the page and sent it from there. The problem was most likely that Express sometimes break the link text with a line break carriage return. http://caroling.holyoak.com/Trips/Wholeo/GlassDome/sito/exhibits/wholeo/whGI FColoredLight.html Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: Carol Tombro To: Bud Britt Date: Sunday, April 18, 1999 03:33 PM Subject: Re: Fantastic Glass Dome !!! |I can't get to that site Bud. Can you check out the URL again? Thanx | |Carol T | |Bud Britt wrote: | |> Check This OUT !!! |> |> http://caroling.holyoak.com/Trips/Wholeo/GlassDome/sito/exhibits/wholeo/whGI |> FColoredLight.html |> |> Sincerely, |> Bud Britt |> |> computerministry@unitytustin.org |> page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, |> http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ |> |> ---- |> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass | ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 20:03:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 18:24:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: L shaped cuts Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 21:15:52 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.171552.0> References: <<1999Apr18.181021.0>> Precedence: bulk I stand corrected Steve, I misread the passage on temp. to be "...up to 750 degrees C..." it was actually "...up to 750 degrees F.." A bit of a difference there, I admit....;-) Jeff Eckes -----Original Message----- From: Steve Richard [mailto:s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, April 18, 1999 12:10 PM To: Jeff Eckes Subject: Re: L shaped cuts Jeff, Why would glass be a liquid on Mercury? Is the surface temperature that high? Ignorance is not bliss. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 18 23:50:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 22:23:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: pro vs. non-pro Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 21:16:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.171644.0> References: <<1999Apr18.9525.0>> Precedence: bulk Here here, Wonderfully stated! JE -----Original Message----- From: Linda Jo Letscher [mailto:andor@ilnk.com] Sent: Sunday, April 18, 1999 1:05 PM To: bungi.com Subject: pro vs. non-pro LJ's 2 1/2 cents Was Vincent VanGogh a professional artist since he never sold a work in his lifetime? Maybe drawing it up and cranking out work and making money at it isn't the only criteria for an artist. I have known several wonderful, talented artists that have never sold a piece but I still consider them artists in every sense of the word. (but then what do I know) I can think of one woman that is beyond just talent, and sits and does pencil drawings while watching TV, and maybe a 1/2 dozen people have even seen her portfolio. I consider her an artist, her drawings are...............well as great as anything I have paid big $$$ for. Women for a couple hundred years have made quits which are wonderful pieces of art, but there are some old stand by standard quilt patterns that I hear every quit person does in their quilting career. Some of those 100 year old quilts are still wonderful pieces of art. Oh no!!, can't be because they didn't draw up the pattern originally........ or sell the quilt. Every time this subject comes up I am going to pipe up yet again. Art is in the eye of the beholder and not every person is seeing the same thing, or valuing the same thing. I think some folks are enamoured with their status in the art community, cut some of us lesser beings a little slack. If someone sells their original design and fabricated work to Wal-mart is it not art because ...............and why is that???????? They designed it, and made and they are selling it.......... And someone bought it. Oh maybe that is "low art." The way artists are nurtured surely isn't to beat them down because they don't sell, don't work fast or whatever or don't do it your way. If we know something (whatever it is) we should share and bring up the ones that are coming behind..... Folks you are too tied up in High Art, Low Art, Pro, Non-pro. Why not embrace everyone's art. I have seen big time doo doo out there, but someone thinks it is art and it is in national galleries, so I say to myself, oh well...... and press on... I don't bother thinking of what type of art it is. I find glass a wonderful medium, however we do it, blow it, cut it, heat it, torch it, and I think everyone creates what they can, what they like, what they can sell or give away. Linda Jo Linda Jo ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 00:21:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 22:53:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: townsqr.com!tinkerbell From: "tinkerbell" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: newbie question Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 00:43:40 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr17.174340.0> Precedence: bulk I would like to make some garden markers, and am wondering if lead rusts if the piece is left outside. Have finished my class, but am willing to take the foil class if I need to. sorry if this is a dumb question, but would really like to know. Thanks to everyone who sent me urls for patterns for stepping stones, have made four, and ready to pour the concrete tomorrow.....thanks..Tinkerbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 00:50:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:28:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: L shaped cuts Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 21:16:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.171640.0> References: <<1999Apr18.184015.0>> Precedence: bulk Websters defines "amorphous" as 1. having no determinate form; of irregular shape. (this probably comes close) 2. having no regular structure; non crystalline. (does glass not have a crystalline structure?) 3. Formless; characterless; unorganized; vague. (defines me better than the glass!) Keep it up folks, we are getting there -----Original Message----- From: Steve Richard [mailto:s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, April 18, 1999 12:40 PM To: Jeff Eckes Subject: Re: L shaped cuts Some scientists describe glass as an amorphous solid (as opposed to fluid or supercooled liquid). This gets into the right area of thinking. Steve In message <1999Apr16.101818.0@?>, Jeff Eckes writes >Charles, >I believe what you remember is a quote relating to glass a "liquid". >Some folks use this instead of 'fluid'. >Lokk in a good encyclopedia and you will find that glass is a "...fluid in a >solid state..." Not that doesn't confuse the issue even more! > >Jeff Eckes > >(by the way, I MEANT to write that mercury was a LIQUID here and a SOLID on >Neptune. Sorry) > >-----Original Message----- >From: Charles Spitzer [mailto:charles_spitzer@stratus.com] >Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 9:12 AM >To: glassgiraffe@earthlink.net >Subject: RE: L shaped cuts > >i believe, in the last couple of years, that i read somewhere that glass is >neither fluid or solid, but 'something else'. the reason is that it >exhibits properties of both, sometimes at the same time. i don't have a >recent url tho that points to this. > >regards, >charlie > >At 01:43 PM 4/15/99 -0400, you wrote: >>I have been following this thread for some time and I have a few comments >>(oh nooooo....) then I HAVE TO go do marbles! >> >>1. Those who say that a "L" shaped cut WILL eventually fracture are wrong >>2. Those who say that an "l" shaped cut MAY eventually fracture are >correct. >> >>I have seen 100 year old glass panels with perfectly intact "l" shoped cuts >>(and WORSE!) as well as 2 week old panels with the same cut that is cracked >>in the obvious place. >>It depends as much on how you distribute the internal stresses in a panel >as >>to what shapes you cut. >> >>ALSO: if you want to determine what kind of stresses are present in a >>particular piece of glass, just use a polariscope to find out (try it on >>some of your favorite glass to see if it is annealed properly, you might be >>surprised!) the same as if you where fusing. >> >>KEEP THIS IN MIND: glass is a FLUID which is usually encountered in its >>frozen state (on the planet Mercury it would be liquid, like mercury is >>solid on this planet but not on Neptune. Truly an issue of perspective, >>no?) Therefore most of the dynamics of solid mechanics goes out the >window. >>Look to FLUID mechanics (hydraulic) for the true skinny on glass. > >-- >Charles Spitzer >Stratus Computer, Inc >Speaking from Stratus, not for Stratus, Ascend, or Lucent > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 02:52:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 01:52:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: newbie question Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 04:56:00 +0000 Message-ID: <199904190848.EAA15699@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > I would like to make some garden markers, and am wondering if lead > rusts if the piece is left outside. Well, it doesn't *rust, exactly, but it does oxidize, although that makes it more resistant to the effects of the weather. Not to worry; stained glass windows have been exposed to the elements for hundreds of years and it's been found that *protecting them from the weather's worse for them than allowing the rain to wash them and air to move across them. This raises the question, "then why protective glazing?" One word: vandals. It's not the elements that the protective glazing's for. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 03:18:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 01:38:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones From: "B. S. Jones" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: test only please ignore Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 09:38:09 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr19.10389.0> Precedence: bulk my computer systems were down for the weekend just testing to see whether bungi has dropped me or not Brandon S. Jones Computer Officer Systems Software and Network Management School of Electrical and Electronic Engineering University of Birmingham UK 0121-414-3129 Fax 0121-414-4291 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 03:53:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 02:33:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones From: "B. S. Jones" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: w****ing Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:29:40 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr19.112940.0> Precedence: bulk > >Not in UK English-speak I am afraid - it is a rude term used to describe >the >activity once also I think referred to as the sin of Onan. I shall leave >it >up to one of our male members to describe it more fully if necessary. :-0 >EliZabeth in Bournemouth come off it it applies to women as well Brandon ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 05:56:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 04:31:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Hello... Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 21:16:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.171633.0> References: <<001701be89c8$eafbfd40$24146bd1@artglass>> Precedence: bulk Re-application probably wont be NEEDED...BUT!....if you started a program of contacting customers after say 3 or 4 years, what a great way to keep in contact with those who already like your work and can recommend you to others! Also, the window WOULD benefit from it. We estimate at this time that a window treated at regular intervals with the 'new stuff' would last up to 30% longer before needing age related repairs. I think it would be a great incentive for all concerned. The studio would have a steady source of income doing the treatments, WITHOUT having to 'build in' the 10-20 year repair bugs AND the customer would benefit by getting a window that lasts longer without major repairs, just a small 'treatment fee' every 3-4 years. This is going to be the basis for marketing the new product when we put it out. What do you think? Jeff Eckes -----Original Message----- From: pj friend [mailto:artglass@waterw.com] Sent: Sunday, April 18, 1999 2:26 PM To: Jeff Eckes Subject: Re: Hello... Good afternoon Jeff, Thank you for the information. We would love to test your product. I was just wondering if reapplication is necessary. Most of our installations are rather large to be reapplying anything. Thanks again. my best, pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Eckes To: pj friend ; glass@bungi.com Date: Saturday, April 17, 1999 11:39 PM Subject: RE: Hello... >Yes you do want it to adhere to the glass. It will naturally decompose >after a period of time (so the chemists tell me) and in the 10+ years that I >have been using it, has not adversely affected the glass or the lead. In >fact in truly punishing applications (a beach house applied window [mounted >on marine plywood as a 'dormer' window] that is exposed to really harsh >weather extremes, it has performed spectacularly. The homeowner reports >that it 'cleans up like a whistle'. He is talking about a years worth of >sea spray, bake don by a southern exposure to the sun! > >A re-application every few years is recommended, and a really great way to >'keep in touch' with past customers! > >Look for a new product next year (joos 2?) that will not shine metal at all >and lasts up to 5x longer (testing now). Anybody doing a lot of lead >projects that are exposed to the elements? Would you like to test some? Let >me know. > >Jeff Eckes > >-----Original Message----- >From: pj friend [mailto:artglass@waterw.com] >Sent: Saturday, April 17, 1999 11:02 AM >To: Jeff Eckes >Subject: Re: Hello... > >Good morning Jeff, >Thank you for your information. I was wondering why you would want this >polymer to adhere to the glass? >And how long will this polymer last? And what are the effects on the lead? > >Thank you. >pj friend > > > >Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. >www.waterw.com/~artglass >Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America >Member International Guild of Glass Artists >-----Original Message----- >From: Jeff Eckes >To: pj friend ; glass@bungi.com >Date: Friday, April 16, 1999 10:58 PM >Subject: RE: Hello... > > >>PJ, >>>From what I can tell, Evershield is a lacquer, for the LEAD only. It >works >>well and I have used it and liked it. >> >>Our joos is a "hydrophobic polymer" that adheres to the glass AND >>lead/solder (very thin, measured in molecules!) and is polish-able. >>It replaces carnuba wax (no names please) and won't leave all those nasty >>white lines that we LOVE to clean so well. >> >>An 8 oz goes for something like $8 or $9 and can be had from >>www.stainedglasswarehouse.com >>Great folks, good prices and service. They also have a customer review >>option for products like Amazon.com, so give them a review on it if you >can. >> >>If you have trouble finding it otherwise, please call me toll free at: >>888-456-6665 >> >>Thanks, >>Jeff Eckes >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: pj friend [mailto:artglass@waterw.com] >>Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 6:37 PM >>To: Jeff Eckes; glass@bungi.com >>Subject: Re: Hello... >> >>Hi Jeff, >> >>Glad to see you here. >> >>I was just wondering if this product is the same thing as Evershield made >by >>Fry? >> >>And what is the cost for a 8 oz bottle. retail. >> >>And don't worry about having strong opinions. Most of us do. >> >>my best, >>pj >> >> >> >>Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. >>www.waterw.com/~artglass >>Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America >>Member International Guild of Glass Artists >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Jeff Eckes >>To: glass@bungi.com >>Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 6:27 PM >>Subject: Hello... >> >> >>>I don't know if this is customary on this list but here goes... >>> >>>My name is Jeff Eckes. Some of you may know me from the work that I do in >>>glass. I am the president of Giraffe Enterprises Inc, which does business >>>in this industry as The Glass Giraffe ( a registered trademark). We (my >>>wife and I) market a series of stained glass instructional videos, as well >>>as the finishing chemical called 'giraffe joos', which I understand has >>been >>>getting a bit of attention on this list of late. >>>We also have a retail glass operation west of Asheville, NC where I also >>>live. Some of you may have heard that the business and building are form >>>sale...they are. We are moving back to NY in order for Karen to pursue >her >>>old career. >>> >>>I am also a torch artist, known for my unique marbles, beads and >ornaments. >>>I teach all over the country at times and will be doing the marble-making >>>demo at GAS in Tampa this year, as well as a pre-conference marble class >at >>>Art Glass House the week before. Because of the move, my next class will >>be >>>at Urban Glass in NY in November. >>> >>>As if that was not enough, some of you might recognize my name from the >>>articles that I write for Glass Craftsman and Glass Patterns Quarterly >>>magazines. >>> >>>I truly enjoy teaching people about glass of all kinds and I hope to be >>able >>>to contribute to this list as much as possible. You will however begin to >>>notice that I have VERY strong opinions about things and that I am NOT >>>afraid to voice them, so some of you will like me and some will hate me I >>am >>>sure. >>> >>>If you have a specific question for me or you need to contact me PLEASE do >>>so directly to this email: glassgiraffe@earthlink.net >>>I only get to read the list responses in my spare time (ha!) and sometimes >>>don't get to do this for weeks at a time. >>> >>>Hope this gives you folks an idea of who I am. If you have any more >>>questions, please feel free to ask. >>> >>>Peace! >>> >>>Jeff Eckes >>> >>> >>> >>>"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little >>> temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." >>> >>>Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>---- >>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >>> >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 08:24:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 06:26:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: email.msn.com!EastGateXX From: "EastGateXX@msn.com" To: "Bungi" Subject: Re: Fantastic Glass Dome !!! Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 06:23:10 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.232310.0> Precedence: bulk http://caroling.holyoak.com/Trips/Wholeo/GlassDome/sito/exhibits/wholeo/ I deleted the "WhGL" off the end of Bud's link and was able to get there. Otherwise, I kept getting file not found. What a site... Amazing what some people have the time to do! -----Original Message----- From: Bud Britt To: Bungi Date: Sunday, April 18, 1999 7:55 PM Subject: Fantastic Glass Dome !!! >I just sent you the link again, went to the page and sent it from there. The >problem was most likely that Express sometimes break the link text with a >line break carriage return. > >http://caroling.holyoak.com/Trips/Wholeo/GlassDome/sito/exhibits/wholeo/whG I >FColoredLight.html > >Sincerely, >Bud Britt > >computerministry@unitytustin.org >page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, >http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ >-----Original Message----- >From: Carol Tombro >To: Bud Britt >Date: Sunday, April 18, 1999 03:33 PM >Subject: Re: Fantastic Glass Dome !!! > > >|I can't get to that site Bud. Can you check out the URL again? Thanx >| >|Carol T >| >|Bud Britt wrote: >| >|> Check This OUT !!! >|> >|> >http://caroling.holyoak.com/Trips/Wholeo/GlassDome/sito/exhibits/wholeo/whG I >|> FColoredLight.html >|> >|> Sincerely, >|> Bud Britt >|> >|> computerministry@unitytustin.org >|> page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, >|> http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ >|> >|> ---- >|> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >|> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >|> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >| > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 09:00:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:25:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Fw: Made In USA Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:23:32 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr19.62332.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "pj friend" >I guess the Rosen group have now become the product police. Odd that they would do this.......since many of their Crafters at the Buyers market are from Canada.< Hey pj...the article in The Crafts Report states that the Rosen group is actually getting th labels to state "Made in USA" or "Made in Canada" as is appropriate for their artists. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 09:01:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:25:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: stained glass exposure Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:23:25 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr19.62325.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Jura Burdinik" >If I install a copper foil stained glass window in my bathroom, what effect will steam and water have on 60-40 solder, black patina and kem-pro polish?< None, if you were very careful about removing all traces of flux and patina prior to polishing. I've got a copper-foiled window (6 feet long x 3 1/2 feet tall) in my bathroom which has been there for 4 years. No effect from the steam/water condensation. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 09:19:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:35:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Message from IGGA Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:22:47 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr19.02247.0> Precedence: bulk Seems that IGGA has stated that Elisabeth Roberg will teach/demonstrate techniques, that are used in the USA, I thought she was coming over to teach techniques and demonstrate tools used in her home country,,, SNIP Elisabeth Roberg, an internationally known stained glass artist with many awards and certificates to her credit, will present demonstrations and workshops based on lead caming methods used in the United Kingdom. Using figures and hands-on demonstrations, she will introduce North American glass hobbyists and professionals to the use of lead came in stained glass panel construction. She will demonstrate techniques commonly used in the United States, and some of her own innovative tools. This presentation is suitable for glass enthusiasts of all abilities. For more information, contact Meredith Stained Glass, 1115 East-West Highway, Silver Spring, MD 20910. Phone: (301) 650-8572. Fax: (301) 650-8576. Email: stnglass@meredithglass.com Web site http://www.meredithglass.com or go to the E-Tour's web site at http://come.to/The_E-Tour for up-to-the minute information. END OF SNIP Maybe Stained glass started in the United States, and they are learning from us. ;-) Yeah I know better, couldn't help it,,, Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 09:24:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:41:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ezl.com!stepsue From: Sue Prullage To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: ? about juried shows Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:08:26 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr19.1826.0> Organization: stainedglassdesign.com Precedence: bulk I am fairly new to the show scene. When you send a slide of your work is that just to exhibit your ability or is that the work you will be summitting if you are accepted? And if they ask for 4 or 5 slides is that all the work you will be sending? I also gather that a juried show is different than a juried craft show. Am I wrong. But both scenario's as that you price your work and they take a commission. Another whole different question is taking pictures of your work. Did you pay someone to do it or did you do it yourself. I contacted one commercial photographer that wanted $75.00/hour to set-up and photo my work. Do you all pay that or do you have any hints on how to do it myself. My husband is an amateur photographer, but I think he may do ok if I could give him enough instruction. Thanks for the input ahead of time. Sue P ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 09:32:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:08:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Link to Glass Dome, Maybe this one will work better,,, Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:54:25 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr19.05425.0> Precedence: bulk Found a little shorter link, you will need to click on one of the links on this page to get to the dome page. http://caroling.holyoak.com/Trips/Wholeo/wholeo.htm Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 10:03:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 09:23:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "B. S. Jones" , Subject: Re: w****ing Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:31:20 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr19.03120.0> Precedence: bulk Might apply to them also, though seems like it would be a little harder to wank on something that don't stick out as far as ours do,,, ;-) Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: B. S. Jones To: 'glass@bungi.com' Date: Monday, April 19, 1999 07:19 AM Subject: RE: w****ing |> | |>Not in UK English-speak I am afraid - it is a rude term used to describe |>the |>activity once also I think referred to as the sin of Onan. I shall leave |>it |>up to one of our male members to describe it more fully if necessary. :-0 | |>EliZabeth in Bournemouth | |come off it it applies to women as well | |Brandon |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 10:33:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 09:36:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: townsqr.com!tinkerbell From: "tinkerbell" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: newbie question Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:38:43 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr18.43843.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks to those who answered, or are going to answer...I want to make a stepping stone and a garden stake to match. It has to be a butterfly pattern, for personal reasons, as a gift...was going to attach to a rod, or buy one of those hangers at Wal-Mart, that you stick into the ground and have a hook to hang something from. Am going to use opal glass for stepping stone and then the same color in clear for the hanging/garden stake one. Just don't know whether or not to do the foil or do the lead..am open for suggestions...pieces are to be sent to Phoenix, so don't have to worry about snow, only heat and a little rain...hehee lots of heat and very little rain.........................thanks, tinkerbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 11:03:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:12:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Jeff Eckes" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: Hello... Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:10:51 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr19.91051.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Jeff Eckes" >e-application probably wont be NEEDED...BUT!....if you started a program= of contacting customers after say 3 or 4 years, what a great way to keep in contact with those who already like your work and can recommend you to others! Also, the window WOULD benefit from it. We estimate at this tim= e that a window treated at regular intervals with the 'new stuff' would las= t up to 30% longer before needing age related repairs. I think it would be= a great incentive for all concerned. The studio would have a steady source= of income doing the treatments, WITHOUT having to 'build in' the 10-20 year repair bugs AND the customer would benefit by getting a window that lasts= longer without major repairs, just a small 'treatment fee' every 3-4 year= s. This is going to be the basis for marketing the new product when we put i= t out. What do you think? < Well, we differ on this one, Jeff. I *don't want to see that customer again for re-touch or repair.... if they want a new piece of art, great. But, = by cementing the windows the time-honored old-fashioned way, I am = assured that those windows will not need any work for probably my = lifetime. Haven't had to touch up any of the windows Michael has built in the last 25 years.... at least based on the condition of the one= s we see on a regular basis. We just finished a rehab at a fire-damaged church.... windows were about 35 years old and the glass in the narthex which sustained the least smoke damage had lead cames and cementing in perfectly good condition - no visible deterioration whatsoever. So, I don't think this is a necessary step. Wonder what conservator, Julie Sloan recommends as far as regular maintenance... in what average time frame is re-cementing called for or re-leading? Let's hear it from an expert. Just my 2c worth... any other opinions? Best, Dani ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 12:36:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:38:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!charles_spitzer From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: re: ? about photographing stained glass Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:35:29 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990419113529.00a4ad50@atlas2.az.stratus.com> Precedence: bulk there is an article in the current stained glass craftsman magazine about photographing stained glass pieces. regards, charlie phx, az >Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:08:26 -0600 >Subject: ? about juried shows >Sender: stepsue@ezl.com >From: stepsue@ezl.com >To: glass@bungi.com > >I am fairly new to the show scene. When you send a slide of your work >is that just to exhibit your ability or is that the work you will be >summitting if you are accepted? And if they ask for 4 or 5 slides is >that all the work you will be sending? I also gather that a juried show >is different than a juried craft show. Am I wrong. But both scenario's >as that you price your work and they take a commission. > Another whole different question is taking pictures of your work. Did >you pay someone to do it or did you do it yourself. I contacted one >commercial photographer that wanted $75.00/hour to set-up and photo my >work. Do you all pay that or do you have any hints on how to do it >myself. My husband is an amateur photographer, but I think he may do ok >if I could give him enough instruction. Thanks for the input ahead of >time. Sue P ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 13:04:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:07:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim Atwood" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: ? about juried shows Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:53:53 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr19.45353.0> Precedence: bulk They all have different rules. I don't think I have ever had the same rules for two different juried shows. And it seems like about half of them will throw your submission in the trash if it does not follow their particular rules. All I can say is: Read the submission rules very carefully and follow them to the letter. If you have any questions make sure you call and get a clear answer. And make sure you keep track of exactly who you talk to and when. For some reason, a lot of juried shows in my area seem to be run by very rude people. You have to be very assertive and insist on a clear answer. And even then half the time they will try to tell you that is not what they said. I photograph all my own pieces. I have to because there is no professional photographer who does this type of work on Texada Island. On the other hand I know I was refused for the last Fine Woodworking Biennial Design Book mainly because the quality of the photos was not good enough. In retrospect this one was important enough that I should have paid the $75.00 per hour plus the photographer's travel costs and any other expenses to get it done better. Most other cases would not require this level of photographic quality though. For Fine Woodworking, the photos were what they would have actually published, so photo quality was critical. -----Original Message----- From: Sue Prullage To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, April 19, 1999 10:33 AM Subject: ? about juried shows >I am fairly new to the show scene. When you send a slide of your work >is that just to exhibit your ability or is that the work you will be >summitting if you are accepted? And if they ask for 4 or 5 slides is >that all the work you will be sending? I also gather that a juried show >is different than a juried craft show. Am I wrong. But both scenario's >as that you price your work and they take a commission. > Another whole different question is taking pictures of your work. Did >you pay someone to do it or did you do it yourself. I contacted one >commercial photographer that wanted $75.00/hour to set-up and photo my >work. Do you all pay that or do you have any hints on how to do it >myself. My husband is an amateur photographer, but I think he may do ok >if I could give him enough instruction. Thanks for the input ahead of >time. Sue P >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 14:46:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:51:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: tinkerbell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: newbie question Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:30:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr19.123028.0> References: <<1999Apr17.174340.0>> Precedence: bulk tinkerbell wrote: > > I would like to make some garden markers, and am wondering if lead rusts if > the piece is left outside. Have finished my class, but am willing to take > the foil class if I need to. sorry if this is a dumb question, but would > really like to know. > Thanks to everyone who sent me urls for patterns for stepping stones, have > made four, and ready to pour the concrete tomorrow.....thanks..Tinkerbell > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass lead does'nt rust it corrodes. if you have to use lead i would use a clear spray over the whole thing after you polish it up. after a while (depending on what kind of air you have, salt, etc), the lead will turn white and may pit. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 16:13:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:11:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!charles_spitzer From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: lead corrosion Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:08:18 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990419150818.00bb43b0@atlas2.az.stratus.com> Precedence: bulk >Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:30:28 -0400 >Subject: Re: newbie question >Sender: esavad@home.net >From: esavad@home.net >To: tinkerbell@townsqr.com > >tinkerbell wrote: >> >> I would like to make some garden markers, and am wondering if lead rusts if >> the piece is left outside. Have finished my class, but am willing to take >> the foil class if I need to. sorry if this is a dumb question, but would >> really like to know. >> Thanks to everyone who sent me urls for patterns for stepping stones, have >> made four, and ready to pour the concrete tomorrow.....thanks..Tinkerbell >> >lead does'nt rust it corrodes. if you have to use lead i would use a >clear spray over the whole thing after you polish it up. after a while >(depending on what kind of air you have, salt, etc), the lead will turn >white and may pit. > >---Mike Savad to be technically correct: yes, lead rusts. rust is oxidation is corrosion. it's just that the lead 'rust' is white and not red. iron corrodes red. copper corrodes green. aluminium is another metal that corrodes white. other metals corrode in different colors. regards, charlie phx, az ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 16:49:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:46:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: ? about juried shows Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:44:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr19.144429.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Sue Prullage >I am fairly new to the show scene. When you send a slide of your work is that just to exhibit your ability or is that the work you will be summitting if you are accepted? And if they ask for 4 or 5 slides is that all the work you will be sending? I also gather that a juried show is different than a juried craft show. Am I wrong. But both scenario's as that you price your work and they take a commission.> Well, as a judge in an up-coming juried fine art and contemporary crafts show which I am producing, I think I can answer these questions from my perspective. Some shows want to see slides of the *types* of work you do, not necessarily the *exact* item you *must* bring to the show. This is how it is for my show. I am looking to get an overall= understanding of your particular style of work. I'm also looking to see if it fits into the overall "flavor" of the show. In my show's case, we (the judges) are looking for contemporary styles and good solid craftsman- ship. If you send in 5 slides of crows-on-a-stick-country stuff, even if= the craftsmanship is excellent, it will be declined since it doesn't meet= the contemporary style of the show. The reason we ask for 4 or 5 slides is to see if you have a style which is your own which carries through into all of your work. Typically one slide is of your booth, so we can make sure you know what you're doing and won't be setting up on top of empty boxes, etc. It's the whole package we are looking for in a booth shot. When you send in 4-5 slides, it is assumed you will be bringing as much of your work as you can squeeze into your booth space, or as much as you feel comfortable in selling. But please do not bring anything which does not meet the criteria of the show. If the show says that only works of original design are allowed, then don't bring something you made from a purchased pattern. Or if the show is contemporary and you sent in 4-5 slides which are contemporary, and you get juried into the show, don't bring your country line as well. Just follow the rules of the show and you'll do fine. My show does not charge a commission on sales. We have a flat booth fee and a jury fee, and that's it. It's just to cover the costs of= running the show. Some shows do charge a commission on sales. It just depends on the show. And the term "juried" *should* mean that a panel of judges looks at the slides/photos/artwork/.jpg files/whatever, and decides who will get invited into the show and who will not, based on merit of the slides presented. This goes for any show which bills itself as "juried". Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:44:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass From: "K See" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Commission to do or not to do Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 19:38:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr19.15380.0> Precedence: bulk On Saturday I stopped by the gallery where I sell Judaica and my boxes and they gave me the number of customer who asked if I would make a custom bowl, using glass in the colors to match her decor. Not a fused piece, copper foil. I made bowls before although she has not seen them. OK, this is my problem. I don't use patterns, I use only scrap glass and found objects in most of what I make. I can use her colors and she saw my work so she knows what I do but... My biggest problem is approval of design. Granted, I could labor (and I do mean labor) by taking elements from patterns and come up with something but I'm not into drawing and I prefer working without patterns. I can give her a selection of glass to pick out and then tell her I'm on my own and take the chance she doesn't like/want it. But that may not give her what she have in mind. or...customer gives me a design of some sort and she picked out glass I could do that. Any suggestions on how to do this? I've never done a commission before but wouldn't mind trying even if it was the last & only time. In addition, the manager said it could be handled two ways 1) I could contact client, meet with her, get approval of design and deposit. Than I pay gallery 20%. . 2) I would talk to client, provide them with glass samples and they would be the middleman, meet at their gallery show her the samples and get approval of design and deposit. I would get 60% they get 40%. OK gang let loose with the comments. K See Art is the only way to run away without leaving home. Twyla Tharp ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 18:22:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:53:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: newbie question Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:00:46 +0000 Message-ID: <199904192353.TAA28620@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > lead does'nt rust it corrodes. if you have to use lead i would use a > clear spray over the whole thing after you polish it up. after a > while (depending on what kind of air you have, salt, etc), the lead > will turn white and may pit. Lead corrodes, iron corrodes. We call iron corrosion "rust," but it's iron oxide. The greyish-white stuff on lead is lead oxide. Same as iron, just a different material. In the case of lead, however, the surface coating of lead oxide is *protective, slowing further oxidation. Any kind of spray, clear or not, just defeats the lead's natural protective mechanism. "Lead is very resistant to most forms of corrosion, because it forms a protective patina on its surface ... [t]his patina is the dull grey surface familiar to anyone who works with stained glass windows. It protects the lead from further deterioration ... " "The Conservation of Stained Glass in America," Julie Sloan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 18:48:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:44:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: "Ann Beardsley" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: sending Chemicals in the mail Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:36:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr19.163612.0> References: <> Precedence: bulk Hi Ann, The pricing on the joos and the videos are up to individual retailers. Ask the retailer that you normally deal with for the products. If they don't (or won't) carry it, here are a couple of possible sources: http://www.taylordexpressions.com www.stainedglasswarehouse.com tell 'em I sent ya and THANKS! Jeff Eckes The Glass Giraffe -----Original Message----- From: Ann Beardsley [mailto:sabeard@utkux.utcc.utk.edu] Sent: Monday, April 19, 1999 2:46 PM To: Jeff Eckes Subject: RE: sending Chemicals in the mail Jeff, I've been reading aabout your videos and giraffe joos on the bungi list. I'd be very interested in a list of your videos and their price. Also, what size and the cost of the giraffe joos. Thank you in advance for your time. Ann in Tennessee On Fri, 16 Apr 1999, Jeff Eckes wrote: >If what you are talking about is 'giraffe joos', it can be sent anywhere >through the mail. > >FYI > >Jeff > >-----Original Message----- >From: Toby [mailto:toby@northlights.co.uk] >Sent: Friday, April 16, 1999 9:59 AM >To: glass@bungi.com >Subject: Re: Memory is failing > >Hi Candy, Hi all, >I gather that sending chemicals like that is deeply frowned on a) by >the postal authorities and b) by Customs 'n Excise people. > >Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK > >> Grate polish?? I want some!! >> >> How about going thru the mail? You can get it thru by stating that it's a >'gift'... >> >---- >As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" >North Lights Stained Glass - homepage >http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm >---- >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 19:24:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:45:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: "Charles Spitzer" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: lead corrosion Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:36:06 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr19.16366.0> References: <<3.0.6.32.19990419150818.00bb43b0@atlas2.az.stratus.com>> Precedence: bulk And putting a 'spray' over it will REALLY ruin it in the long run. No matter what you use, it will peel eventually. See post under "exposure' for some ideas on this. Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Charles Spitzer [mailto:charles_spitzer@stratus.com] Sent: Monday, April 19, 1999 11:08 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: lead corrosion >Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:30:28 -0400 >Subject: Re: newbie question >Sender: esavad@home.net >From: esavad@home.net >To: tinkerbell@townsqr.com > >tinkerbell wrote: >> >> I would like to make some garden markers, and am wondering if lead rusts if >> the piece is left outside. Have finished my class, but am willing to take >> the foil class if I need to. sorry if this is a dumb question, but would >> really like to know. >> Thanks to everyone who sent me urls for patterns for stepping stones, have >> made four, and ready to pour the concrete tomorrow.....thanks..Tinkerbell >> >lead does'nt rust it corrodes. if you have to use lead i would use a >clear spray over the whole thing after you polish it up. after a while >(depending on what kind of air you have, salt, etc), the lead will turn >white and may pit. > >---Mike Savad to be technically correct: yes, lead rusts. rust is oxidation is corrosion. it's just that the lead 'rust' is white and not red. iron corrodes red. copper corrodes green. aluminium is another metal that corrodes white. other metals corrode in different colors. regards, charlie phx, az ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 19:40:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:45:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: "Jura Burdinik" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: stained glass exposure Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:36:01 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr19.16361.0> References: <<1999Apr18.74441.0>> Precedence: bulk I had a mailbox meltdown with earthlink yesterday so I guess my post to this subject did not make it. One of the things that we tested with the giraffe joos was the exposure to water/steam/salts. It outlasts kem-pro wax 10 to 1 on this. Much depends on a good thorough cleaning (esp. the PATINA residue) and quality construction techniques (gaps in the foil/solder/lead definitely accelerate deterioration) but if you compare apples to apples there is no contest. Waxes have organic compounds and by definition they will deteriorate. A polymer does not. Period. Besides, this IS the dawn of the 21st century. Why use something that is essentially a 'next best' solution (originally developed for lacquer car finishes) when there are products that are available that where designed from the ground up to protect GLASS? (please send hate mail to: v_pain@noknowledge.glass ) Jeff (feeling frisky) Eckes -----Original Message----- From: Jura Burdinik [mailto:JuraB@msn.com] Sent: Sunday, April 18, 1999 11:45 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: stained glass exposure If I install a copper foil stained glass window in my bathroom, what effect will steam and water have on 60-40 solder, black patina and kem-pro polish? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 19:48:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:59:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: rrk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG-Funny Dream! Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:36:50 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr19.103650.0> References: <<1999Apr17.221736.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk > The man's name was Friedrich Kekule and he lived in the mid-19th century in > what we would now call Germany. The modern state of "Germany" didn't exist > until bloody Bismark's time, starting around 1870, by which time Kekule was > dead. Chemistry was not well developed at that time to say the least. > Quantum theory was not yet developed and neither was most of what we would > call modern chemistry. One of the big problems confronting chemists of the > time was "aromaticity". There were essentially 2 groups of chemically pure > substances containing only carbon and hydrogen. One group had set A of > physical properties and were called "aromatic" and the other group had set B > of physical properties. Nobody had any explanation that held water as to why > they were different. Kekule proposed that the aromatics had a flat rigid > cyclic structure with some of the electrons that formed the chemical bonds > between the carbon atom being in a ring above the flat ring of bonded carbon > atoms. According to him, he was on a bus one day and fell into a daydream. > In his dream he saw a snake swallowing its own tail. This dream inspired him > to propose his theory. And his theory turned out to be true, to accurately > model that which is. To this day chemists call the stick drawings of > hexagons with alternating double lines Kekule structures. It is now known > that aromaticity is due to molecular orbital hybridization and so on ... but > Kekule was essentially right. > > > > Anyway ... you asked. > > Regards .......... Bob > >ah yes, NOW I remember.... Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 21:07:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 19:30:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: picture of a great kilt Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:25:21 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr20.22521.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/17/99 5:39:26 PM, writes: >>BTW I have found my photo of what I think is Blake's attempt at wearing >a >>self fashioned kilt. It is a little risqu=E9 but I will send it to anyone= >> who >>asks.... except Blake.....LOL >>Patrick >>Roses and Rainbows OOOOOH! OOOOOH! ME! ME! I'd have sent this to Patrick privately, but my system crashed again and I've lost all my addresses! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 21:25:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 19:31:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "K See" Subject: Re: Commission to do or not to do Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 19:30:46 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr19.123046.0> Precedence: bulk >>In addition, the manager said it could be handled two ways 1) I could contact client, meet with her, get approval of design and deposit. Than I pay gallery 20%. . 2) I would talk to client, provide them with glass samples and they would be the middleman, meet at their gallery show her the samples and get approval of design and deposit. I would get 60% they get 40%. OK gang let loose with the comments. K See<< I like option two for several reasons. The gallery generated the commission and should have the expertese to final sell the customer. Seems worth the extra 20% to me and likely to generate additional good will with the gallery. I trust you use lead free solder in your bowls. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 21:29:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:12:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!CWWSLW From: CWWSLW@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: second chance Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 23:03:28 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr20.3328.0> Precedence: bulk Last year, some of you may recall that I had several questions regarding my first commission pieces. One of which was a 2'x3' giraffe panel that was to be hung in a ceiling, over a bar area. This was by far the most complex piece of glass I'd ever done. I got several good bits of advice from bungi, from how to pick out glass to reinforcement. My customer was very pleased with my work. They had someone else install it, and I never got to see it's new home. It was with a sad heart I saw it go. Funny how one can become so attached to a piece of glass!! Well, this past Sunday, my husband and I noticed this past client had his house up for sale, and would be open that afternoon. We went and checked out my stained glass giraffe in its new environment. Of course on the house "fact" sheet, stained glass was in BOLD print. Someone thought it was worthy to note as a selling point! Made me feel proud. We were so impressed with the house, we put a bid in on it! Seems like I may end up owning the giraffe once again. Susan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 19 21:50:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:33:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Albert Lewis" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: newbie question Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 23:31:25 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr19.193125.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Albert Lewis" > In the case of lead, however, the surface coating of lead oxide is = *protective, slowing further oxidation. Any kind of spray, clear or = not, just defeats the lead's natural protective mechanism. < Well, would not a wax or polymer defeat the purpose then, too? Now, don't get me wrong, we don't use that on our windows.... my good ol' cement recipe works just fine for my jobs and I = know for a fact I won't have to come back and do any touch-up on our windows for at least 25 years. Probably won't have to re-lead for 100 years maybe longer. And it'll be interesting to observe (not that I'll be here!) just how much deterioration on the lead that's been installed against exterior glazing. = Just my 2c worth.... = Best regards, Dani Greer (who feels like Maytag repairman of stained glass.... and like= s it!) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 02:22:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 01:00:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Albert Lewis Subject: Window treatments (was newbie question) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:12:03 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.9123.0> References: <<199904190848.EAA15699@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk So, does Albert's response about lead corrosion answer the question about periodic treatments of windows? Steve In message <199904190848.EAA15699@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>, Albert Lewis writes > >> I would like to make some garden markers, and am wondering if lead >> rusts if the piece is left outside. > >Well, it doesn't *rust, exactly, but it does oxidize, although that >makes it more resistant to the effects of the weather. Not to worry; >stained glass windows have been exposed to the elements for hundreds >of years and it's been found that *protecting them from the weather's >worse for them than allowing the rain to wash them and air to move >across them. > >This raises the question, "then why protective glazing?" One word: >vandals. It's not the elements that the protective glazing's for. > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 02:36:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 01:00:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Bud Britt Subject: Re: Message from IGGA Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:35:22 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.93522.0> References: <<1999Apr19.02247.0@?>> Precedence: bulk Bud, It just shows how easy it is to be ethno-centric, doesn't it. One little slip...... Steve In message <1999Apr19.02247.0@?>, Bud Britt writes >Seems that IGGA has stated that Elisabeth Roberg will teach/demonstrate >techniques, that are used in the USA, I thought she was coming over to teach >techniques and demonstrate tools used in her home country,,, > >SNIP >Elisabeth Roberg, an internationally known stained glass artist with many >awards and certificates to her credit, will present demonstrations and >workshops based on lead caming methods used in the United Kingdom. Using >figures and hands-on demonstrations, she will introduce North American >glass hobbyists and professionals to the use of lead came in stained glass >panel construction. > >She will demonstrate techniques commonly used in the >United States, and some of her own innovative tools. > >This presentation is >suitable for glass enthusiasts of all abilities. For more information, >contact Meredith Stained Glass, 1115 East-West Highway, Silver Spring, MD >20910. Phone: (301) 650-8572. Fax: (301) 650-8576. Email: >stnglass@meredithglass.com Web site http://www.meredithglass.com or go to >the E-Tour's web site at http://come.to/The_E-Tour for up-to-the minute >information. > >END OF SNIP > >Maybe Stained glass started in the United States, and they are learning from >us. ;-) > >Yeah I know better, couldn't help it,,, > >Sincerely, >Bud Britt > >computerministry@unitytustin.org >page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, >http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 02:48:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 01:00:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Jeff Eckes Subject: Re: L shaped cuts Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:10:02 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.9102.0> References: <<1999Apr18.171640.0@?>> Precedence: bulk Jeff If glass were a crystalline structure, we could not see through it. De-vitrification is a formation of a crystalline structure on the surface of the glass. While glass does have a fairly regular structure it does not have a crystalline structure. I will go look up my text books to provide the source. Steve In message <1999Apr18.171640.0@?>, Jeff Eckes writes >Websters defines "amorphous" as > >1. having no determinate form; of irregular shape. (this probably comes >close) >2. having no regular structure; non crystalline. (does glass not have a >crystalline structure?) >3. Formless; characterless; unorganized; vague. (defines me better than the >glass!) > >Keep it up folks, we are getting there >-----Original Message----- >From: Steve Richard [mailto:s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk] >Sent: Sunday, April 18, 1999 12:40 PM >To: Jeff Eckes >Subject: Re: L shaped cuts > >Some scientists describe glass as an amorphous solid (as opposed to >fluid or supercooled liquid). This gets into the right area of >thinking. > >Steve > >In message <1999Apr16.101818.0@?>, Jeff Eckes > writes >>Charles, >>I believe what you remember is a quote relating to glass a "liquid". >>Some folks use this instead of 'fluid'. >>Lokk in a good encyclopedia and you will find that glass is a "...fluid in >a >>solid state..." Not that doesn't confuse the issue even more! >> >>Jeff Eckes >> >>(by the way, I MEANT to write that mercury was a LIQUID here and a SOLID on >>Neptune. Sorry) >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Charles Spitzer [mailto:charles_spitzer@stratus.com] >>Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 9:12 AM >>To: glassgiraffe@earthlink.net >>Subject: RE: L shaped cuts >> >>i believe, in the last couple of years, that i read somewhere that glass is >>neither fluid or solid, but 'something else'. the reason is that it >>exhibits properties of both, sometimes at the same time. i don't have a >>recent url tho that points to this. >> >>regards, >>charlie >> >>At 01:43 PM 4/15/99 -0400, you wrote: >>>I have been following this thread for some time and I have a few comments >>>(oh nooooo....) then I HAVE TO go do marbles! >>> >>>1. Those who say that a "L" shaped cut WILL eventually fracture are wrong >>>2. Those who say that an "l" shaped cut MAY eventually fracture are >>correct. >>> >>>I have seen 100 year old glass panels with perfectly intact "l" shoped >cuts >>>(and WORSE!) as well as 2 week old panels with the same cut that is >cracked >>>in the obvious place. >>>It depends as much on how you distribute the internal stresses in a panel >>as >>>to what shapes you cut. >>> >>>ALSO: if you want to determine what kind of stresses are present in a >>>particular piece of glass, just use a polariscope to find out (try it on >>>some of your favorite glass to see if it is annealed properly, you might >be >>>surprised!) the same as if you where fusing. >>> >>>KEEP THIS IN MIND: glass is a FLUID which is usually encountered in its >>>frozen state (on the planet Mercury it would be liquid, like mercury is >>>solid on this planet but not on Neptune. Truly an issue of perspective, >>>no?) Therefore most of the dynamics of solid mechanics goes out the >>window. >>>Look to FLUID mechanics (hydraulic) for the true skinny on glass. >> >>-- >>Charles Spitzer >>Stratus Computer, Inc >>Speaking from Stratus, not for Stratus, Ascend, or Lucent >> >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >-- >Steve Richard >Verrier Art Glass Ltd >s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 03:54:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 02:51:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mpx.com.au!ktsplash From: "ktsplash" To: "Bungi List" Subject: Castings link Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:49:20 +1000 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.54920.0> Precedence: bulk From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 06:57:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 04:56:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: L shaped cuts Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:48:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.34826.0> References: <> Precedence: bulk Does not an opal glass become opaque because of "...small crystalline structures that form in the glass as it cools in a certain way, which scatter the light...". I don't remember who the quote was from (maybe Sean at Youghegenny Glass, we where talking about how he got stipple to look that way) and I don't know all that much about glass chemistry BUT I do seem to remember this quote for some reason. Jeff Eckes -----Original Message----- From: Steve Richard [mailto:s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 3:10 AM To: Jeff Eckes Cc: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: L shaped cuts Jeff If glass were a crystalline structure, we could not see through it. De-vitrification is a formation of a crystalline structure on the surface of the glass. While glass does have a fairly regular structure it does not have a crystalline structure. I will go look up my text books to provide the source. Steve In message <1999Apr18.171640.0@?>, Jeff Eckes writes >Websters defines "amorphous" as > >1. having no determinate form; of irregular shape. (this probably comes >close) >2. having no regular structure; non crystalline. (does glass not have a >crystalline structure?) >3. Formless; characterless; unorganized; vague. (defines me better than the >glass!) > >Keep it up folks, we are getting there >-----Original Message----- >From: Steve Richard [mailto:s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk] >Sent: Sunday, April 18, 1999 12:40 PM >To: Jeff Eckes >Subject: Re: L shaped cuts > >Some scientists describe glass as an amorphous solid (as opposed to >fluid or supercooled liquid). This gets into the right area of >thinking. > >Steve > >In message <1999Apr16.101818.0@?>, Jeff Eckes > writes >>Charles, >>I believe what you remember is a quote relating to glass a "liquid". >>Some folks use this instead of 'fluid'. >>Lokk in a good encyclopedia and you will find that glass is a "...fluid in >a >>solid state..." Not that doesn't confuse the issue even more! >> >>Jeff Eckes >> >>(by the way, I MEANT to write that mercury was a LIQUID here and a SOLID on >>Neptune. Sorry) >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Charles Spitzer [mailto:charles_spitzer@stratus.com] >>Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 9:12 AM >>To: glassgiraffe@earthlink.net >>Subject: RE: L shaped cuts >> >>i believe, in the last couple of years, that i read somewhere that glass is >>neither fluid or solid, but 'something else'. the reason is that it >>exhibits properties of both, sometimes at the same time. i don't have a >>recent url tho that points to this. >> >>regards, >>charlie >> >>At 01:43 PM 4/15/99 -0400, you wrote: >>>I have been following this thread for some time and I have a few comments >>>(oh nooooo....) then I HAVE TO go do marbles! >>> >>>1. Those who say that a "L" shaped cut WILL eventually fracture are wrong >>>2. Those who say that an "l" shaped cut MAY eventually fracture are >>correct. >>> >>>I have seen 100 year old glass panels with perfectly intact "l" shoped >cuts >>>(and WORSE!) as well as 2 week old panels with the same cut that is >cracked >>>in the obvious place. >>>It depends as much on how you distribute the internal stresses in a panel >>as >>>to what shapes you cut. >>> >>>ALSO: if you want to determine what kind of stresses are present in a >>>particular piece of glass, just use a polariscope to find out (try it on >>>some of your favorite glass to see if it is annealed properly, you might >be >>>surprised!) the same as if you where fusing. >>> >>>KEEP THIS IN MIND: glass is a FLUID which is usually encountered in its >>>frozen state (on the planet Mercury it would be liquid, like mercury is >>>solid on this planet but not on Neptune. Truly an issue of perspective, >>>no?) Therefore most of the dynamics of solid mechanics goes out the >>window. >>>Look to FLUID mechanics (hydraulic) for the true skinny on glass. >> >>-- >>Charles Spitzer >>Stratus Computer, Inc >>Speaking from Stratus, not for Stratus, Ascend, or Lucent >> >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >-- >Steve Richard >Verrier Art Glass Ltd >s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 07:18:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 06:16:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: , "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: second chance Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:56:30 -0400 Message-ID: <199904201257.IAA22768@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 4/19/99 11:03 PM CWWSLW@aol.com CWWSLW@aol.com >We were so impressed with the house, we put a bid in on it! Seems like I may >end up owning the giraffe once again. Oh-My-God!!! Talk about coincidence. Or would it be serendipity? Your story gave me goosebumps. Let us know if you get the house. Suzanne > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 07:25:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 04:58:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Window treatments (was newbie question) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:48:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.34829.0> References: <<1999Apr20.9123.0>> Precedence: bulk No and I will tell you why, This business of stained glass is a business, plain and simple. If a treatment or product: 1. Does no harm to a window 2. Does do some good (no matter how incremental it is) 3. Provides a benefit to the customer 4. Allows you to make profit where you could not before (found money, so to speak) 5. Gives you a marketing advantage over your competitor (as perceived by the customer) 6. Keeps you in touch with good customers that can recommend future work Then this product WORKS and should be considered as part of an overall business plan. I see one of the problems facing this industry as a matter of a lack of business acumen. One reason that an outfit like "stained glass overlay" can come into our market and wreak such havoc. As someone who is both an artist AND has much experience in sales and marketing, I say we need to build our businesses away we can, that is honest! Simply ignoring a process or product because "it was never done that way" is foolish and antithetical to 'building' a business for the future that is truly diverse. And my response to "...whether it is in Julie Sloan's book..." is: does she even know what a hydrophobic polymer is? I doubt it. But I would love to really explain it to her and let her try it and see what her reaction is to it after an honest appraisal. Remember, this stuff is only a few molecules thick on a window and has NEVER shown any tendency to discolor or harm the glass (OR lead) in any way. My thoughts only, Jeff Eckes -----Original Message----- From: Steve Richard [mailto:s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 3:12 AM To: Albert Lewis Subject: Window treatments (was newbie question) So, does Albert's response about lead corrosion answer the question about periodic treatments of windows? Steve In message <199904190848.EAA15699@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>, Albert Lewis writes > >> I would like to make some garden markers, and am wondering if lead >> rusts if the piece is left outside. > >Well, it doesn't *rust, exactly, but it does oxidize, although that >makes it more resistant to the effects of the weather. Not to worry; >stained glass windows have been exposed to the elements for hundreds >of years and it's been found that *protecting them from the weather's >worse for them than allowing the rain to wash them and air to move >across them. > >This raises the question, "then why protective glazing?" One word: >vandals. It's not the elements that the protective glazing's for. > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 07:49:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 06:17:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: celtic art link Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:15:13 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr20.131513.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/18/99 7:01:46 PM, glshorse@ior.com writes: >okay, heres the deal...what I found on my post to the group is that it >attached the top page of the URL....apparently when you press the "enter >here" thingie it DOES put you into the web site, not exactly a "link" >the same way other people have done them but I believe it is accessible >thru what I posted....... Try this...... It was buried in the middle of the HTML stuff at the bottom of your original message. http://www.wdi.co.uk/celtic/we lcome.html Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 07:56:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 06:20:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: [Fwd) RE: preplanned repairs? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:02:47 +0000 Message-ID: <199904201255.IAA00131@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk In response to some of the comments made here about "pre-planned repairs," I asked Julie Sloan to comment. She has, below. -- Albert ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- What work could possibly need to be done in 3-4 years on a well-made, new window? Even restored windows, using old glass and sometimes old lead, shouldn't need to be "visited" that regularly. Sounds like planned obsolescence to me. That's certainly NOT a marketing technique that we would espouse. Julie Sloan ================================ Julie L. Sloan Vice-president, Cummings Studio PO Box 427, North Adams, MA 01247 (413) 664-6578; fax (413) 664-6570 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 08:09:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 06:27:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: stained glass exposure Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:24:22 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr20.132422.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/19/99 12:02:17 PM, Ensembles@compuserve.com writes: >I've got a copper-foiled >window (6 feet long x 3 1/2 feet tall) in my bathroom which >has been there for 4 years. No effect from the steam/water >condensation. I've seen the window in question, it's drop-dead gorgeous. It's also directly above a great big jacuzzi tub. No problem....... if there were, I'm sure she wouldn't have accepted the commission to make 2 copperfoil panels to insert directly into a custom shower enclosure! (Those are drop-dead gorgeous too.) Sparks (just itchin' to make my own custom tub/shower enclosure based on the well-known art nouveau illustration of the two lovers in the waterfall.... but it's not "my" house......) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 08:19:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:30:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: nbnet.nb.ca!mschut From: mschut@nbnet.nb.ca (mschut) To: CWWSLW@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: second chance Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:34:03 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990420103403.21ffaf1c@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca> References: <<1999Apr20.3328.0>> Precedence: bulk >Well, this past Sunday, my husband and I noticed this past client had his >house up for sale, and would be open that afternoon. We went and checked out >my stained glass giraffe in its new environment. Of course on the house >"fact" sheet, stained glass was in BOLD print. Someone thought it was worthy >to note as a selling point! Made me feel proud. > >We were so impressed with the house, we put a bid in on it! Seems like I may >end up owning the giraffe once again. > >Susan Wouldn't it be cheaper just to make another 2x3 giraffe panel instead of buying the whole house? Just a thought! Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & ????? Schut Moncton, New Brunswick ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 09:29:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:38:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Window treatments (was newbie question) Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:45:55 +0000 Message-ID: <199904201538.LAA08635@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > I think Albert might be saying the interim polymer treatments > are superfluous. Albert, could you clarify? Yes, it's not necessary to coat lead came with *anything if it's going to be exposed to the weather (or not). It can be colored with patinas or blackened or darkened naturally during puttying, but other than that, nothing necessary. Of course, people *will try to sell stuff to use ... and say that it's necessary, not that anyone here's trying to sell stuff. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 09:50:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:24:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:CWWSLW@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: second chance Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:22:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.72231.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:CWWSLW@aol.com >We were so impressed with the house, we put a bid in on it! Seems like I= may = end up owning the giraffe once again. = < Even if you don't buy the house, Susan, find out if you can get some good photos on site for your portfolio! Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 10:00:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:40:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Window treatments (was newbie question) Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:45:55 +0000 Message-ID: <199904201538.LAA11216@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Message text written by "Jeff Eckes" > > > And my response to "...whether it is in Julie Sloan's book..." is: > does she even know what a hydrophobic polymer is? I doubt it. But > I would love to really explain it to her and let her try it and see > what her reaction is to it after an honest appraisal.< Is it plastic that foams at the mouth? (Just joking.) Will pass the query to Julie, sure. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 10:10:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:26:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Jeff Eckes" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: Window treatments (was newbie question) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:22:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.72241.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Jeff Eckes" >I say we need to build our businesses away we can,< Yes, that's certainly every businessman's right. It's America, after all. However, it's also my right as a professional and a teacher to tell everyone that I believe these kinds of products are superfluous as is the money spent on them and here is what I do that has worked for 1000 years and is a whole lot cheaper. I am more than happy to look at any new product as a possible alternative to what I am using. For example, I wouldn't trade in my Toyo cutter or my James EasyCut pattern shears and go back to the old.... the new really are an improvement. But, why would having to do maintenance on windows every 3-4 years be an improvement over a job that lasts for 25 years or better? Are you saying "built-in obsolescence" is an improvement? I say not and would tell = anyone, student or professional, that your time is better spent improving you knowledge and skills so that you can create new and maybe even original works, not additional steps and products that add .... what? Now, keep in = mind that I'm talking about stained glass window installations here.... maybe your = product has a place for smaller hobby or gift items where cementing would be a royal pain on all those little things... and maybe not worth the effort or mess. But, for = full-scale commissions? Not for me, thanks. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 10:42:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:19:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: second chance Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:16:04 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr20.16164.0> Precedence: bulk Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & ????? Schut's enquiring minds want to know: >Wouldn't it be cheaper just to make another 2x3 giraffe panel instead of >buying the whole house? What is it they say...... location, location, location! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 11:01:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:26:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net To: "K See" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Commission to do or not to do Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:24:36 -0700 Message-ID: <199904201624.JAA30379@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >On Saturday I stopped by the gallery where I sell Judaica and my boxes and >they gave me the number of customer who asked if I would make a custom bowl, >using glass in the colors to match her decor. Not a fused piece, copper >foil. I made bowls before although she has not seen them. > >OK, this is my problem. I don't use patterns, I use only scrap glass and >found objects in most of what I make. I can use her colors and she saw my >work so she knows what I do but... > >My biggest problem is approval of design. Granted, I could labor (and I do >mean labor) by taking elements from patterns and come up with something but >I'm not into drawing and I prefer working without patterns. > >I can give her a selection of glass to pick out and then tell her I'm on my >own and take the chance she doesn't like/want it. But that may not give her >what she have in mind. >or...customer gives me a design of some sort and she picked out glass I >could do that. > >Any suggestions on how to do this? I've never done a commission before but >wouldn't mind trying even if it was the last & only time. > >In addition, the manager said it could be handled two ways > >1) I could contact client, meet with her, get approval of design and >deposit. Than I pay gallery 20%. . > >2) I would talk to client, provide them with glass samples and they would be >the middleman, meet at their gallery show her the samples and get approval >of design and deposit. I would get 60% they get 40%. > >OK gang let loose with the comments. Tough question...there's pros (and cons) to going either way. My initial reaction would be a need to talk with the client directly...that's just the way I work. I also have a clause in my contract that reads: "The artist will submit and design and samples of the proposed materials. It is understood that the client has seen examples of the artist's previous work, has discussed with her the general requirements, mood, content and architecture and is willing to place faith in the artist's ability to create an acceptable design." Obviously in your case you don't want to submit a design, but I'm thinking the second part of the paragraph may be of some help to you here. Another reason I believe in working with clients directly is that a third party in the middle often muddles communication, and I believe that would be the same whether the third party is a gallery or a designer. The gallery is open to either option and have given you percentages according to what they perceive to be fair renumeration for their involvement. Obviously acting as middleman requires more time and effort, ergo a higher percentage. Since you haven't worked on commission before, you might want to consider approaching the gallery to work side by side with them when they meet the client (rather than having them act as a middleman where you don't meet the client at all). They could then guide the meeting and you'd get to develop a relationship with the client and have a better understanding of his/her desires than by indirect communication. The gallery would get their 40%, you'd get 60% and learn lots in the process. Good luck and let us know what you decide to do. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 11:35:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:20:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!gcanvas From: "James C. Kelly" To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Fireplace Screen Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:15:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.91547.0> Precedence: bulk I have the opportunity to = create a glass fireplace screen for a customer. I meet tomorrow with a local wrought iron craftsman who advertises that he creates stained glass fireplace screens. Does the membership have any recommendations on what I should expect = on pricing such a iron screen, or specifics I would want to expect in a completed screen ready for the insertion of a = completed panel. I do understand and have told the customer that the screen should be considered a = summer screen and not be subjected to the close aboard heat of a roaring fire. Thanks in advance. Jim Kelly Virginia Beach VA gcanvas@compuserve.com Tuesday, April 20, 1999 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 12:19:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:43:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Albert Lewis" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Window treatments (was newbie question) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:40:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.9408.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Albert Lewis" >Of course, people *will try to sell stuff to use ... and say that = it's necessary, not that anyone here's trying to sell stuff. < Very nicely said, Albert. As always, I appreciate your tact and sensitivity. And it's true, over the years most = bungians have avoided using this forum to sell personal stuff.... not that anyone minds a quick mention. But, = I don't believe this is the place for ongoing informercials. All IMPO of course. Best, = Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 12:38:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:23:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!StndGlass1 From: StndGlass1@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: CALL FOR ENTRIES Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:20:37 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr20.182037.0> Precedence: bulk Meredith Signature Glass Gallery at Meredith Glass Arts Center in Silver Spring, MD, is exhibiting "Judaic Visions", an invitational exhibit of Jewish art in glass from June 27th to August 8th, 1999. We are looking for one-of-a-kind or limited edition pieces of Judaic art which incorporate the use of glass. Please send slides or photos of your work for evaluation to: Meredith Glass Arts Center c/o Jane Meredith 1115 East-West Highway Silver Spring, MD 20910 800-966-6667 We need photos and/or slides for submissions by May 10th, and artworks which are accepted into the show will need to be received here by May 30th. Please phone or e-mail if you have any questions, we look forward to hearing from you! Jenna Meredith-Sanders Meredith Stained Glass Center ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 13:06:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:38:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: stained glass exposure Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:38:07 -0700 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990420113807.0094dba0@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> References: <<1999Apr20.132422.0>> Precedence: bulk At 09:24 AM 4/20/99 EDT, you wrote: > > >Sparks (just itchin' to make my own custom tub/shower > enclosure based on the well-known art nouveau > illustration of the two lovers in the waterfall.... > but it's not "my" house......) > Does anyone know what building codes would have to say about such an enclosure? I would assume that tempered glass is required here. Steve (remembering how I once fell through a plexiglass shower door when I tried to stand on a newly sprained ankle) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 13:19:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:04:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: second chance Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:03:29 -0700 Message-ID: <199904201903.MAA05508@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >Well, this past Sunday, my husband and I noticed this past client had his >house up for sale, and would be open that afternoon. We went and checked out >my stained glass giraffe in its new environment. Of course on the house >"fact" sheet, stained glass was in BOLD print. Someone thought it was worthy >to note as a selling point! Made me feel proud. > >We were so impressed with the house, we put a bid in on it! Seems like I may >end up owning the giraffe once again. Heck of an expensive way to get your panel back!!!! :) C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 13:54:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:05:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: http://www.tarrs-art.com/ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:49:57 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.44957.0> Precedence: bulk http://www.tarrs-art.com/ Check it out Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 13:54:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:14:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Subject: NOT GLASS - SHOOTING Date: Tue Apr 20 12:12:56 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.95056.0> Organization: Taylor'd Expressions Precedence: bulk just thought i would take a moment to inform any one that they may want to catch a tv if they can, there is a school shooting in littleton co--outside denver they say 8 kids shot and the gunman are still in the school sorry for anyway i have upset by this, just thought i would pass on breaking news thanx dani, you might have more info,,,,,is this near you? debbie jo taylor kleeman@one.net http://www.taylordexpressions.com your complete stained glass supply source 1-888-488-9616 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 13:58:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:22:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net To: "Jeff Eckes" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Window treatments (was newbie question) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:21:18 -0700 Message-ID: <199904201921.MAA11121@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >This business of stained glass is a business, plain and simple. If a >treatment or product: > >1. Does no harm to a window >2. Does do some good (no matter how incremental it is) >3. Provides a benefit to the customer >4. Allows you to make profit where you could not before (found money, so to >speak) >5. Gives you a marketing advantage over your competitor (as perceived by the >customer) >6. Keeps you in touch with good customers that can recommend future work > >Then this product WORKS and should be considered as part of an overall >business plan. >I see one of the problems facing this industry as a matter of a lack of >business acumen. One reason that an outfit like "stained glass overlay" can >come into our market and wreak such havoc. >As someone who is both an artist AND has much experience in sales and >marketing, I say we need to build our businesses away we can, that is >honest! Simply ignoring a process or product because "it was never done >that way" is foolish and antithetical to 'building' a business for the >future that is truly diverse. Jeff, I think what you're saying is that this is just a way of bringing a "value-added" product to the stained glass industry, and I would use the analogy here of buying a service contract for exercise equipment. One of my recent clients and I had a discussion about how people are willing to pay for followup care of their purchases and how often he sells a service contract for home gym equipment (guess what he sells :) ). Now I ask you...does an exercise bicycle really need more than, say a shot of oil once in a while? Likely not, however homeowners are busy and are willing to pay to have it taken care of. It's a value added service that he supplies to his clients. It serves the function of keeping him in touch with his clients...to sell upgrades, new equipment, etc. as well as buying the client peace of mind. I work mainly with residential clients whose final question is often "how do I care for this piece?". Without saying anything about the merits/drawbacks of the product Jeff is promoting, I see a LOT of positives in the idea of perhaps offering a professional sg annual window cleaning service and will be mulling the possibilities of this over. Without wanting to fly in the face of the established studios and professionals and get into the necessary/unnecessary debate from a technical perspective, I venture to ask how different this is from sending out newsletters and promotional info to existing and prospective clients. Isn't it all really about relationship building and perceived value? C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 14:22:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:53:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Shirley's List" , "Bungi" Subject: Fw: Wanted-Vermont St Glass Help Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:52:01 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.5521.0> Precedence: bulk Any takers? Might be able to arrange for you to stay at my mothers house in Newbury, VT. This is not my advertisement. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. -----Original Message----- From: SFish1230 +ADw-sfish1230+AEA-aol.com+AD4- Newsgroups: rec.crafts.glass Date: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 5:32 AM Subject: Wanted-Vermont St Glass Help +AD4-Anyone have ideas where to advertise to find an experienced stained glass +AD4-person to work in a year round studio in Vermont? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 14:48:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:27:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stmassociates.com!shigbee From: "Shari Higbee" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Fireplace Screen Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:31:38 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.73138.0> Precedence: bulk Jim--I recently found a glass fireplace screen in a catalog. I tore the photo out and have been carrying it around and showing everyone because I intend to make it. It is a 3-panel job, and a victorian design. The only non-glass on it is the frame around each of the 3 pieces. The catalog price is $2,500 plus shipping and handling! I'd be happy to scan it in and email and copy of the photo to you if you are interested in taking a look. Shari >I have the opportunity to = > >create a glass fireplace >screen for a customer. >I meet tomorrow with a local >wrought iron craftsman >who advertises that >he creates stained glass >fireplace screens. >Does the membership >have any recommendations >on what I should expect = > >on pricing such a iron screen, >or specifics I would want to >expect in a completed screen >ready for the insertion of a = > >completed panel. >I do understand and have told >the customer that the screen >should be considered a = > >summer screen and not >be subjected to the close >aboard heat of a roaring >fire. >Thanks in advance. >Jim Kelly >Virginia Beach VA > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 14:55:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:07:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Jeff Eckes Subject: Business approaches (was Window treatments (was newbie question) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 20:38:03 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.21383.0> References: <<1999Apr20.34829.0@?>> Precedence: bulk OK Jeff. I respect your way of going about doing business, even if I don't agree with it. So I am not trying to "slag" (a UK term) you off. But I don't agree for several reasons relating to my view of what I am doing when I am in business to create and restore decorative glass. I feel this discussion may get toward the difference between business (which could be in any area of work or product) and the art and craft of decorative glass. Because it is possible to make a living from art and craft (a different one than the life style of a business person, of course) In message <1999Apr20.34829.0@?>, Jeff Eckes writes >No and I will tell you why, > >This business of stained glass is a business, plain and simple. If a >treatment or product: > >1. Does no harm to a window My ethics say that if a treatment does no good to a window, it should not be done. >2. Does do some good (no matter how incremental it is) Well, if a treatment is of only marginal good, then the question has to be asked whether the good is great enough to be carried out, even if the cost is small. >3. Provides a benefit to the customer the benefit to the customer is questionable in this case. Yes, the customer may perceive a benefit, but not one I am happy to sell. >4. Allows you to make profit where you could not before (found money, so to >speak) This is in the realms of convincing people to spend money for perceived benefit, which perception you have created. To me it seems a little dishonest (But I won't accuse anyone taking up this business behaviour as anything other than "businesslike") >5. Gives you a marketing advantage over your competitor (as perceived by the >customer) I want my marketing advantage to be one of design and craftsmanship. I am not interested in the sale of products and services of doubtful utility. >6. Keeps you in touch with good customers that can recommend future work I can think of many other ways of keeping in touch without charging my customer for questionably useful services. E. G. Christmas cards Birthday cards Anniversary (of the installation) cards Exhibition and Open Day invitations ETC. I'm sure there are lots of others that I haven't used. > >Then this product WORKS and should be considered as part of an overall >business plan. >I see one of the problems facing this industry as a matter of a lack of >business acumen. One reason that an outfit like "stained glass overlay" can >come into our market and wreak such havoc. Perhaps I do have a lack of business acumen, but I am unwilling to accept that SGO has had its success simply because I don't have the "BA". SGO is cheap and easy to apply. It looks so most of the time too. People who in general do not wish to pay for the real thing have a suitable product in the SGO. If we define ourselves as merely in the stained glass market, then we are in a small niche market. If we define ourselves as decorative architectural glass artists, then we can take on skyscraper scale work. >As someone who is both an artist AND has much experience in sales and >marketing, I say we need to build our businesses away we can, that is >honest! Simply ignoring a process or product because "it was never done >that way" is foolish and antithetical to 'building' a business for the >future that is truly diverse. I would not like to ignore new processes. Often the difficulty is finding out about them. I do NOT want to apply processes and services which are untested, or unnecessary. I guess I am just not open to all business opportunities. So, maybe that makes me a less good business man. > >And my response to "...whether it is in Julie Sloan's book..." is: does she >even know what a hydrophobic polymer is? I doubt it. But I would love to >really explain it to her and let her try it and see what her reaction is to >it after an honest appraisal. I'd guess Ms Sloan does know what a hydrophobic polymer is. Even I do. I would agree that whether it is in Julie's book is a partial red herring. All books of the nature of hers date and need to be updated by reading the periodical literature. >Remember, this stuff is only a few molecules thick on a window and has NEVER >shown any tendency to discolor or harm the glass (OR lead) in any way. > I guess the two lines above sum up my concern. If the material does not discolour or harm the glass or lead, but does not help; then what is the purpose other than increasing turnover? If we are honest about increasing turnover, I have no quarrel. But if we are saying it will (hand on heart) HELP preserve the window or other decorative glass object, then I do have a different opinion. > > Best wishes for business success. Steve in the Scottish business backwaters (We were told on the news only today, that young Scots do not have the confidence and drive to start new, winning businesses) > >-----Original Message----- >From: Steve Richard [mailto:s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk] >Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 3:12 AM >To: Albert Lewis >Subject: Window treatments (was newbie question) > >So, does Albert's response about lead corrosion answer the question >about periodic treatments of windows? >Steve > >In message <199904190848.EAA15699@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>, Albert Lewis > writes >> >>> I would like to make some garden markers, and am wondering if lead >>> rusts if the piece is left outside. >> >>Well, it doesn't *rust, exactly, but it does oxidize, although that >>makes it more resistant to the effects of the weather. Not to worry; >>stained glass windows have been exposed to the elements for hundreds >>of years and it's been found that *protecting them from the weather's >>worse for them than allowing the rain to wash them and air to move >>across them. >> >>This raises the question, "then why protective glazing?" One word: >>vandals. It's not the elements that the protective glazing's for. >> >>Albert >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >-- >Steve Richard >Verrier Art Glass Ltd >s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 15:00:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:08:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Jeff Eckes Subject: Re: L shaped cuts Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 20:08:56 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.21856.0> References: <<1999Apr20.34826.0@?>> Precedence: bulk Jeff, now we are getting into even more murky (for me) areas. I have been under the impression that opalescence is an added constituent to the glass (in past times I think it was arsenic). Does anyone have information on both opalescence and the stipple of Yough. glass? Steve In message <1999Apr20.34826.0@?>, Jeff Eckes writes >Does not an opal glass become opaque because of "...small crystalline >structures that form in the glass as it cools in a certain way, which >scatter the light...". I don't remember who the quote was from (maybe Sean >at Youghegenny Glass, we where talking about how he got stipple to look that >way) and I don't know all that much about glass chemistry BUT I do seem to >remember this quote for some reason. > >Jeff Eckes > >-----Original Message----- >From: Steve Richard [mailto:s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk] >Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 3:10 AM >To: Jeff Eckes >Cc: glass@bungi.com >Subject: Re: L shaped cuts > >Jeff > If glass were a crystalline structure, we could not see through >it. De-vitrification is a formation of a crystalline structure on the >surface of the glass. While glass does have a fairly regular structure >it does not have a crystalline structure. > >I will go look up my text books to provide the source. > >Steve > > >In message <1999Apr18.171640.0@?>, Jeff Eckes > writes >>Websters defines "amorphous" as >> >>1. having no determinate form; of irregular shape. (this probably comes >>close) >>2. having no regular structure; non crystalline. (does glass not have a >>crystalline structure?) >>3. Formless; characterless; unorganized; vague. (defines me better than the >>glass!) >> >>Keep it up folks, we are getting there >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Steve Richard [mailto:s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk] >>Sent: Sunday, April 18, 1999 12:40 PM >>To: Jeff Eckes >>Subject: Re: L shaped cuts >> >>Some scientists describe glass as an amorphous solid (as opposed to >>fluid or supercooled liquid). This gets into the right area of >>thinking. >> >>Steve >> >>In message <1999Apr16.101818.0@?>, Jeff Eckes >> writes >>>Charles, >>>I believe what you remember is a quote relating to glass a "liquid". >>>Some folks use this instead of 'fluid'. >>>Lokk in a good encyclopedia and you will find that glass is a "...fluid in >>a >>>solid state..." Not that doesn't confuse the issue even more! >>> >>>Jeff Eckes >>> >>>(by the way, I MEANT to write that mercury was a LIQUID here and a SOLID >on >>>Neptune. Sorry) >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Charles Spitzer [mailto:charles_spitzer@stratus.com] >>>Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 9:12 AM >>>To: glassgiraffe@earthlink.net >>>Subject: RE: L shaped cuts >>> >>>i believe, in the last couple of years, that i read somewhere that glass >is >>>neither fluid or solid, but 'something else'. the reason is that it >>>exhibits properties of both, sometimes at the same time. i don't have a >>>recent url tho that points to this. >>> >>>regards, >>>charlie >>> >>>At 01:43 PM 4/15/99 -0400, you wrote: >>>>I have been following this thread for some time and I have a few comments >>>>(oh nooooo....) then I HAVE TO go do marbles! >>>> >>>>1. Those who say that a "L" shaped cut WILL eventually fracture are wrong >>>>2. Those who say that an "l" shaped cut MAY eventually fracture are >>>correct. >>>> >>>>I have seen 100 year old glass panels with perfectly intact "l" shoped >>cuts >>>>(and WORSE!) as well as 2 week old panels with the same cut that is >>cracked >>>>in the obvious place. >>>>It depends as much on how you distribute the internal stresses in a panel >>>as >>>>to what shapes you cut. >>>> >>>>ALSO: if you want to determine what kind of stresses are present in a >>>>particular piece of glass, just use a polariscope to find out (try it on >>>>some of your favorite glass to see if it is annealed properly, you might >>be >>>>surprised!) the same as if you where fusing. >>>> >>>>KEEP THIS IN MIND: glass is a FLUID which is usually encountered in its >>>>frozen state (on the planet Mercury it would be liquid, like mercury is >>>>solid on this planet but not on Neptune. Truly an issue of perspective, >>>>no?) Therefore most of the dynamics of solid mechanics goes out the >>>window. >>>>Look to FLUID mechanics (hydraulic) for the true skinny on glass. >>> >>>-- >>>Charles Spitzer >>>Stratus Computer, Inc >>>Speaking from Stratus, not for Stratus, Ascend, or Lucent >>> >>> >>>---- >>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >>-- >>Steve Richard >>Verrier Art Glass Ltd >>s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >-- >Steve Richard >Verrier Art Glass Ltd >s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 15:37:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:09:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: one.net!kleeman, glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: NOT GLASS - SHOOTING Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:07:31 PDT Message-ID: Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "NOT GLASS - SHOOTING" on Apr 20, 12:12, one.net!kleeman writes:] > just thought i would take a moment to inform any one that they may want to > catch a tv if they can, there is a school shooting in littleton co--outside > denver > they say 8 kids shot and the gunman are still in the school > dani, you might have more info,,,,,is this near you? I've just been watching it too,..how sad,..I'll never understand how kids can get so messed up ,..killing innocent others,...it's awful :^( -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 15:52:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:19:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Patina's and Copper Sulfate Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:06:00 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.760.0> Precedence: bulk Hello Everyone, I saw in one of the glass catalogs that you can buy Copper Sulfate crystals in bulk form. From reading the patina bottle this is what they use to make the copper patina. Does anyone know, what the mixture recipes would be to make your own patina, and what ratios would be best? Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 16:17:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:28:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: toledolink.com!asaris From: "a saris" To: "Jeff Eckes" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Window treatments (was newbie question) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:26:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.132616.0> Precedence: bulk Does it also protect sandblasted glass? Tony Saris -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Eckes To: glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 10:46 AM Subject: RE: Window treatments (was newbie question) >No and I will tell you why, > >This business of stained glass is a business, plain and simple. If a >treatment or product: > >1. Does no harm to a window >2. Does do some good (no matter how incremental it is) >3. Provides a benefit to the customer >4. Allows you to make profit where you could not before (found money, so to >speak) >5. Gives you a marketing advantage over your competitor (as perceived by the >customer) >6. Keeps you in touch with good customers that can recommend future work > >Then this product WORKS and should be considered as part of an overall >business plan. >I see one of the problems facing this industry as a matter of a lack of >business acumen. One reason that an outfit like "stained glass overlay" can >come into our market and wreak such havoc. >As someone who is both an artist AND has much experience in sales and >marketing, I say we need to build our businesses away we can, that is >honest! Simply ignoring a process or product because "it was never done >that way" is foolish and antithetical to 'building' a business for the >future that is truly diverse. > >And my response to "...whether it is in Julie Sloan's book..." is: does she >even know what a hydrophobic polymer is? I doubt it. But I would love to >really explain it to her and let her try it and see what her reaction is to >it after an honest appraisal. >Remember, this stuff is only a few molecules thick on a window and has NEVER >shown any tendency to discolor or harm the glass (OR lead) in any way. > > >My thoughts only, > >Jeff Eckes > >-----Original Message----- >From: Steve Richard [mailto:s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk] >Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 3:12 AM >To: Albert Lewis >Subject: Window treatments (was newbie question) > >So, does Albert's response about lead corrosion answer the question >about periodic treatments of windows? >Steve > >In message <199904190848.EAA15699@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>, Albert Lewis > writes >> >>> I would like to make some garden markers, and am wondering if lead >>> rusts if the piece is left outside. >> >>Well, it doesn't *rust, exactly, but it does oxidize, although that >>makes it more resistant to the effects of the weather. Not to worry; >>stained glass windows have been exposed to the elements for hundreds >>of years and it's been found that *protecting them from the weather's >>worse for them than allowing the rain to wash them and air to move >>across them. >> >>This raises the question, "then why protective glazing?" One word: >>vandals. It's not the elements that the protective glazing's for. >> >>Albert >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >-- >Steve Richard >Verrier Art Glass Ltd >s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 16:35:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:10:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stmassociates.com!shigbee From: "Shari Higbee" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: NG time delays to post msgs. Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:14:03 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.10143.0> Precedence: bulk I've noticed the last couple of times I posted a note to bungi.com, I sent the message and it arrived in my inbox over 4 hours later. Is this a common thing with bungi posts? Any of you technoids know? Shari ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 16:42:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:53:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stmassociates.com!shigbee From: "Shari Higbee" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: http://www.tarrs-art.com/ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:58:31 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.95831.0> Precedence: bulk Yippee!! It's not me that's broke. I got to this link just fine! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Bud Britt >http://www.tarrs-art.com/ > >Check it out > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 17:03:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:51:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mpx.com.au!ktsplash From: "ktsplash" To: "Bungi List" Subject: PI4 and seeing finished product Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 20:09:49 +1000 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.6949.0> Precedence: bulk http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/armani/268/pi4tut7/ Gee willikers, just look what they can do with Photo Impact 4 and some glass sample files and a pattern from Spectrum. (Kinda spooky, in a way.) Seems like you could get a really good idea what your finished work will look like, using your own pattern, glass sample pictures, and a bit of time. Anyone done this? I have heaps of trouble imagining finished product when looking at a couple of sheets of glass, trying to decide if colours go together, etc. (although I am getting better with practice.) But I can see myself using this for a big project worth a lot of time and money - just to reassure myself - and the customer. Katie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 17:31:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:53:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mpx.com.au!ktsplash From: "ktsplash" To: "Bungi List" Subject: Castings Link Take 2 Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:54:10 +1000 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.185410.0> Precedence: bulk Dang. Just checked my sent items folder and the message was included. Thought I was goin nuts. I've noticed I have also receive messages from Bungi that are blank except for subject line. Anyone tell me what's doing this? Anyway the message was: Those who like making gifts/ornaments will get a kick out of this site! Totem poles, sailboats, fish, dragons, nymphs, heaps of angels http://www.creativecasting.com/ If you don't have time to look at all of them, at least check out this clock casting - gorgeous! http://www.creativecasting.com/8301-369.html Katie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 17:34:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:59:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim Atwood" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: L shaped cuts Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:00:34 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.9034.0> Precedence: bulk Both standard opalescence and ring mottle in glass are caused by small crystals forming in the glass. Uroboros has a good article on this for their ring mottle. You may read it in their issue 15 of "Fast Breaking News" available on their web site at http://www.uroboros.com/ -----Original Message----- From: Steve Richard To: Jeff Eckes Date: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 4:09 PM Subject: Re: L shaped cuts >Jeff, > now we are getting into even more murky (for me) areas. I have >been under the impression that opalescence is an added constituent to >the glass (in past times I think it was arsenic). > Does anyone have information on both opalescence and the stipple >of Yough. glass? >Steve > > In message <1999Apr20.34826.0@?>, Jeff Eckes > writes >>Does not an opal glass become opaque because of "...small crystalline >>structures that form in the glass as it cools in a certain way, which >>scatter the light...". I don't remember who the quote was from (maybe Sean >>at Youghegenny Glass, we where talking about how he got stipple to look that >>way) and I don't know all that much about glass chemistry BUT I do seem to >>remember this quote for some reason. >> >>Jeff Eckes >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Steve Richard [mailto:s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk] >>Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 3:10 AM >>To: Jeff Eckes >>Cc: glass@bungi.com >>Subject: Re: L shaped cuts >> >>Jeff >> If glass were a crystalline structure, we could not see through >>it. De-vitrification is a formation of a crystalline structure on the >>surface of the glass. While glass does have a fairly regular structure >>it does not have a crystalline structure. >> >>I will go look up my text books to provide the source. >> >>Steve >> >> >>In message <1999Apr18.171640.0@?>, Jeff Eckes >> writes >>>Websters defines "amorphous" as >>> >>>1. having no determinate form; of irregular shape. (this probably comes >>>close) >>>2. having no regular structure; non crystalline. (does glass not have a >>>crystalline structure?) >>>3. Formless; characterless; unorganized; vague. (defines me better than the >>>glass!) >>> >>>Keep it up folks, we are getting there >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Steve Richard [mailto:s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk] >>>Sent: Sunday, April 18, 1999 12:40 PM >>>To: Jeff Eckes >>>Subject: Re: L shaped cuts >>> >>>Some scientists describe glass as an amorphous solid (as opposed to >>>fluid or supercooled liquid). This gets into the right area of >>>thinking. >>> >>>Steve >>> >>>In message <1999Apr16.101818.0@?>, Jeff Eckes >>> writes >>>>Charles, >>>>I believe what you remember is a quote relating to glass a "liquid". >>>>Some folks use this instead of 'fluid'. >>>>Lokk in a good encyclopedia and you will find that glass is a "...fluid in >>>a >>>>solid state..." Not that doesn't confuse the issue even more! >>>> >>>>Jeff Eckes >>>> >>>>(by the way, I MEANT to write that mercury was a LIQUID here and a SOLID >>on >>>>Neptune. Sorry) >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: Charles Spitzer [mailto:charles_spitzer@stratus.com] >>>>Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 9:12 AM >>>>To: glassgiraffe@earthlink.net >>>>Subject: RE: L shaped cuts >>>> >>>>i believe, in the last couple of years, that i read somewhere that glass >>is >>>>neither fluid or solid, but 'something else'. the reason is that it >>>>exhibits properties of both, sometimes at the same time. i don't have a >>>>recent url tho that points to this. >>>> >>>>regards, >>>>charlie >>>> >>>>At 01:43 PM 4/15/99 -0400, you wrote: >>>>>I have been following this thread for some time and I have a few comments >>>>>(oh nooooo....) then I HAVE TO go do marbles! >>>>> >>>>>1. Those who say that a "L" shaped cut WILL eventually fracture are wrong >>>>>2. Those who say that an "l" shaped cut MAY eventually fracture are >>>>correct. >>>>> >>>>>I have seen 100 year old glass panels with perfectly intact "l" shoped >>>cuts >>>>>(and WORSE!) as well as 2 week old panels with the same cut that is >>>cracked >>>>>in the obvious place. >>>>>It depends as much on how you distribute the internal stresses in a panel >>>>as >>>>>to what shapes you cut. >>>>> >>>>>ALSO: if you want to determine what kind of stresses are present in a >>>>>particular piece of glass, just use a polariscope to find out (try it on >>>>>some of your favorite glass to see if it is annealed properly, you might >>>be >>>>>surprised!) the same as if you where fusing. >>>>> >>>>>KEEP THIS IN MIND: glass is a FLUID which is usually encountered in its >>>>>frozen state (on the planet Mercury it would be liquid, like mercury is >>>>>solid on this planet but not on Neptune. Truly an issue of perspective, >>>>>no?) Therefore most of the dynamics of solid mechanics goes out the >>>>window. >>>>>Look to FLUID mechanics (hydraulic) for the true skinny on glass. >>>> >>>>-- >>>>Charles Spitzer >>>>Stratus Computer, Inc >>>>Speaking from Stratus, not for Stratus, Ascend, or Lucent >>>> >>>> >>>>---- >>>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>>>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >>> >>>-- >>>Steve Richard >>>Verrier Art Glass Ltd >>>s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk >>>---- >>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >>> >>>---- >>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >>-- >>Steve Richard >>Verrier Art Glass Ltd >>s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >-- >Steve Richard >Verrier Art Glass Ltd >s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 18:00:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:04:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: clientside-viennasys.com!sfairbairn From: Steve Fairbairn To: 'Bungi Mailing List' Content-Type: text/plain Subject: RE: Patina's and Copper Sulfate Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:02:02 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.922.0> Precedence: bulk I asked this question a few weeks ago and the answers I got ranged all over the board. The general consensus was about 2 tablespoons per quart of water. Warm water works best both for mixing and applying. I found by adding more copper sulfate I was able to get a more 'coppery' appearance. I think its just one of those things where you have to experiment until you find the mixture that suits you best. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Bud Britt [mailto:computerministry@unitytustin.org] Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 2:06 PM To: Bungi Subject: Patina's and Copper Sulfate Hello Everyone, I saw in one of the glass catalogs that you can buy Copper Sulfate crystals in bulk form. From reading the patina bottle this is what they use to make the copper patina. Does anyone know, what the mixture recipes would be to make your own patina, and what ratios would be best? Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 18:05:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:28:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: Dani Greer , glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Window treatments (was newbie question) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:11:28 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.121128.0> References: <<1999Apr20.9408.0@[207.126.97.2]>> Organization: SBWSA Precedence: bulk This is such a civilized forum, that it's a pleasure to read the posts. I owned a house in NJ that was built in l878 on the Manasquan River about 2 miles in from the Atlantic Ocean. The original stained glass windows were still there, unharmed from any and all weather elements without even the benefit of "storm windows" or thermopane. And, they were still beautiful without benefit of any special care IMHO. Carol T Dani Greer wrote: > Message text written by "Albert Lewis" > >Of course, people *will try to sell stuff to use ... and say that = > > it's necessary, not that anyone here's trying to sell stuff. > < > > Very nicely said, Albert. As always, I appreciate your > tact and sensitivity. And it's true, over the years most = > > bungians have avoided using this forum to sell personal > stuff.... not that anyone minds a quick mention. But, = > > I don't believe this is the place for ongoing informercials. > All IMPO of course. > > Best, = > > Dani Greer > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 18:09:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:29:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stainedglassartists.com!Pam From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:27:15 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.92715.0> Organization: Stained Glass Artists/MM Ltd. Precedence: bulk After watching CNN and the breaking news on the shooting I am truly dismayed. The Springfield Oregon High School shooting that happened last year about this time was tragic. This one in Denver I now hear 25 student's including the 2 gunmen are dead. Well I'm glad the gunmen are dead but I'm very sad so many others had to die with them. As a person who has been involved in Daycare for 11 years and a former bus driver I can say this about kids these days. There is no positive discipline enforced, there is a lack of love in alot of families and there isn't enough time to devote to the kids that some may have. When I went to school what kept me on the straight and narrow was the fact that I could get a swat on the behind by my principle. That was enough for me to keep focused in school. I just had to voice some opinions I guess today. I can't imagine the position some parents are in right now in Denver. Mourning the loss of a child or happy that theirs may still be alive. I'm a firm believer in the death penalty and the boy who killed at Springfield High School last year I believe will get the death penalty, he killed his parents before he went on his shooting rampage at the high school by the way. God speed I say. Pam -- ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://www.stainedglassartists.com/ Moswood Mountain Limited http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 18:33:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:31:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: stained glass exposure Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:28:04 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr20.23284.0> Precedence: bulk steve@villagesoftsmith.com's enquiring mind wants to know: >Does anyone know what building codes would have to say about such an >enclosure? I would assume that tempered glass is required here. I don't know about building codes, but regaredless, you can be sure that in my house there'd be safety glazing of some sort on the inside, at least! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 18:53:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:09:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: NOT GLASS - SHOOTING Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:08:29 -0700 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990420170829.0094d5f0@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "NOT GLASS - SHOOTING" on Apr 20, 12:12, one.net!kleeman writes:] > just thought i would take a moment to inform any one that they may want to > catch a tv if they can, there is a school shooting in littleton co--outside > denver > they say 8 kids shot and the gunman are still in the school > dani, you might have more info,,,,,is this near you? In the late 80s I worked at a Sunnyvale, CA company where a deranged employee showed up armed to the teeth and killed 8 people. You can't imagine what a surreal experience it is to have something like this happen at a place that is like a second home. You never feel quite as safe again. Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 18:58:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:17:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:ctombro@InfoAve.Net" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Window treatments (was newbie question) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 20:14:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.161436.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:ctombro@InfoAve.Net >he original stained glass windows were still there, unharmed from any and all weather elements without even the benefit of "storm windows" or thermopane. And, they were still beautiful without benefit of any special care IMHO. < That's because doing it correctly the first time is about as good as it gets. The time-honored technique doesn't need much = improvement. And, we have the satisfaction of knowing that the materials and technique are archival and will look alot = better than the artist will in 50 years.... or more. Like Lee Iococca said, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." = As far as protecting sandblasted glass with a polymer? Why? The smooth side doesn't need protection and the blasted side.... well, I would think it would lose the etched effect.... and I don't think it needs protecting anyway. = All of this conversation reminds me of wearing rubber galoshes on a cloudless summer day in Arizona... unnecessary, pointless. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 19:03:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:08:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!gcanvas From: "James C. Kelly" To: "Shari Higbee" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Fireplace Screen Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 20:06:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.16653.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Shari, >>I recently found a glass fireplace screen in a catalog. It would be most kind of you to forward a copy of the fireplace screen you have been saving. I am intrigued by the design possibilities. I guess the first decision is to recommend either a transparent piece which would = allow the placement of some lights behind it, like christmas tree lights, which I have seen done or a completely opaque panel. Most of what I have read recommends against leaving the screen in = front of a real fire so an opaque -summer panel- opens many = possibilities for design.. Thanks for your help. Jim Kelly Virginia Beach VA gcanvas@compuserve.com Tuesday, April 20, 1999 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 19:30:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:30:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Glass colorants and opalizers, was Re: L shaped cuts Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:27:54 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr20.232754.0> Precedence: bulk Steve Richard's enquiring mind wants to know: > now we are getting into even more murky (for me) areas. I have >been under the impression that opalescence is an added constituent to >the glass (in past times I think it was arsenic). > Does anyone have information on both opalescence and the stipple >of Yough. glass? Don't know about Yough specifically, but according to the Spectrum folks (information from "A Guide to Commonly Used Terms in the Art Glass Field," available on their web site as an Acrobat pdf file), these days the opalizing agent is usually fluorine or phosphorus combined with a high level of aluminum oxide to produce white crystals in the flass. The ring mottle pattern is produced by controlled crystal growth (they don't say how it's controlled). Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 19:47:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:44:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Patina's and Copper Sulfate Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:44:14 -0700 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990420174414.009f2b60@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> References: <<1999Apr20.760.0>> Precedence: bulk At 02:06 PM 4/20/99 -0700, Bud Britt wrote: >Hello Everyone, > >I saw in one of the glass catalogs that you can buy Copper Sulfate crystals >in bulk form. From reading the patina bottle this is what they use to make >the copper patina. > >Does anyone know, what the mixture recipes would be to make your own patina, >and what ratios would be best? > A jewelry-making friend of mine gave me an old patina recipe sheet from the following company. It doesn't show patina formulas for lead, but you might be able to get some from them. They sell the chemicals, too. Bryant Laboratory 1101 Fifth St. Berkeley, CA 94710 (510) 526-3141, (800) 367-3141 I don't think they have a web site, but when searching for one, I came across the following URL, which has enough patina-related links to keep you busy for days. http://w3.uwyo.edu/~metal/patinas.html Good luck. Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 20:08:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:13:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim Atwood" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: PI4 and seeing finished product Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:08:58 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.11858.0> Precedence: bulk Yes, it has become a fairly standard tool for me to communicate designs to clients. I use American Bevel's Designer II software with the optional glass libraries (Kokomo and Spectrum) plus other scanned images. You can now get scanned images of glass from many manufacturers such as Uroboros and you can copy the scanned pictures from many other companies' online catalogues as you need them. Personally, I have some problems with the changes American Bevel made to how their glass libraries work between Designer I and Designer II. The old "I" allowed you to tile the images which eliminated distortion. The new method for glass libraries always fits the image to the shape of the piece and therefore distorts it. However, Designer II still has the old bit scan logic in it so you can force it back to the old methods. Let me know if anyone wants details on doing this. Nothing can replace the client seeing real glass samples. Scanned images never do justice to how the real glass looks under real light. But computer cad designs with scanned glass samples sure beat my old method of colouring in a pattern with felt-tip pens. If the client can not get in to see the real glass, they can usually get a pretty good idea from the scanned computer images. -----Original Message----- From: ktsplash To: Bungi List Date: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 6:10 PM Subject: PI4 and seeing finished product >http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/armani/268/pi4tut7/ >Gee willikers, just look what they can do with Photo Impact 4 and some glass >sample files and a pattern from Spectrum. (Kinda spooky, in a way.) >Seems like you could get a really good idea what your finished work will >look like, using your own pattern, glass sample pictures, and a bit of time. >Anyone done this? I have heaps of trouble imagining finished product when >looking at a couple of sheets of glass, trying to decide if colours go >together, etc. (although I am getting better with practice.) But I can see >myself using this for a big project worth a lot of time and money - just to >reassure myself - and the customer. > >Katie > > > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 20:09:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:21:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netrax.net!rejones From: Bob Jones To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: No messages today? Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:12:50 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.171250.0> Precedence: bulk Has anyone else received mail today 4-20-99. Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 20:30:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:26:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "Pamela Burns-Tappan" , Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:25:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.17257.0> Precedence: bulk Pam, I am so dismayed about this shooting too. It is just so horrible the mind can't even comprehend. I sure don't have any answers but it looks like we are going to have to have some drastic changes here soon or this is going to become commonplace, kids gunning down groups of people. KIDS!!!! I had a super day today, and then got wind of this shooting early afternoon and my heart is just heavy. So many lives touched and changed by this. I just don't understand killing at random. And where did these kids get the weapons and bullets and their parents didn't have a clue, give me a break. We have gotten so many stories on our news I don't really know what the real story is. Prayers tonight for the kids and families. I was going to work on a drawing tonight but I just can't even concentrate. Regards, Linda Jo -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 9:09 PM Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING >After watching CNN and the breaking news on the shooting I am truly >dismayed. The Springfield Oregon High School shooting that happened last >year about this time was tragic. This one in Denver I now hear 25 >student's including the 2 gunmen are dead. Well I'm glad the gunmen are >dead but I'm very sad so many others had to die with them. > >As a person who has been involved in Daycare for 11 years and a former >bus driver I can say this about kids these days. There is no positive >discipline enforced, there is a lack of love in alot of families and >there isn't enough time to devote to the kids that some may have. When I >went to school what kept me on the straight and narrow was the fact that >I could get a swat on the behind by my principle. That was enough for me >to keep focused in school. I just had to voice some opinions I guess >today. > >I can't imagine the position some parents are in right now in Denver. >Mourning the loss of a child or happy that theirs may still be alive. >I'm a firm believer in the death penalty and the boy who killed at >Springfield High School last year I believe will get the death penalty, >he killed his parents before he went on his shooting rampage at the high >school by the way. God speed I say. > >Pam > >-- >********************************* > >Pamela Burns-Tappan >Executive Director >The Stained Glass Artists >http://www.stainedglassartists.com/ > >Moswood Mountain Limited >http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited >http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1 > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 20:34:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:13:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim Atwood" To: "ktsplash" , "Bungi List" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Castings Link Take 2 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:16:21 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.111621.0> Precedence: bulk Usually happens when you send something HTML (MIME) format rather than plain text. This seems to happen sometimes when doing a "reply all" to bungi and/or if you hand type the bungi address. I seem to have eliminated it in my own messages by the following (MS Outlook Express, but I guess most other email clients have similar functions). 1. Define bungi in my address book with the "Send Plain Text Only" box checked. 2. Always send bungi mail using the address from my address book rather than doing a reply or reply all. If I am truly replying, I will do a reply to get the "Re:" subject and any quotes I need, but then I delete the address and re-select bungi from my address book. -----Original Message----- From: ktsplash To: Bungi List Date: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 6:38 PM Subject: Castings Link Take 2 .... >Thought I was goin nuts. I've noticed I have also receive messages from >Bungi that are blank except for subject line. Anyone tell me what's doing >this? ... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 21:04:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:22:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bardstown.com!glassx From: "Glass Expressions" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: help-need glass paint Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:24:52 +0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.52452.0> Precedence: bulk hi we have done glass etching using chemical process with silk screen but now people want color added using silk screen (for there are many to be done) and not feesiable to hand paint or make into stained glass because of detailes (except we are adding s/g boarder) I/ve tried the color magic with the silk screen but it will not make a design just a blob of paint where it ran together) also tried paint people use on shirts when silkscreening and it will not stick to glass enough to show up. any advice would be Very Much appreciated! ps i really think it wonderful we ahve this opportunity to ask for advice from bunji people out there you just can't get that type of knowledge anywhere. Thanks in advance for your help ricky ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 21:07:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:22:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Window treatments (was newbie question) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 22:14:37 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.181437.0> References: <<199904201538.LAA08635@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk >>Of course, people *will try to sell stuff to use ... and say that it's necessary, not that anyone here's trying to sell stuff. Actually, not trying to sell a damn thing...it does not exist yet. Trying to get some honest opinions and find some to test this product. It is, and always was my intention to try to 'grow' this business and one very serious lack in this business a way to keep in contact 9business wise) with former customers, our absolutely BEST source for new work. It will NOT be for everyone, granted, but if consideration is not given to these thing within the industry, we will all likely go the way of the ceramics industry. It's time that we started thinking like businessmen/women AS WELL as artists. It's an incredibly hard balancing act, I know, but saying "...it's been done for hundreds of years..." just does not wash anymore. Processes/products improve all of the time. It's what drives our modern economy. If even a small, percentage of the total 'industries' went about it without improvement/innovation and yes, marketing continuous 'customer contact' then we would ALL be worse off. Why is it that THIS industry must cling to the past with such stubbornness? I am NOT saying that your method doesn't work, just that we where hostile to some pretty innovative products that eventually IMPROVED the profit margin for us. Grinders? Saws? Chemical (vs. mechanical) lamination? Get the point? Having continuous 'customer contact' allows us to service our customers better, spot the small repair that could quickly become a larger and more costly one (not from 'planned deterioration' but maybe from a minor trauma?). This is NOT a bad thing. If not done with a "maintenance" product than how? I am open to ALL ideas folks, but to just say "we don't need this" is to deny that the 'idea' hasn't any merit. Anyone have any other ideas? We either start thinking as an 'industry' or we will always remain a 'fringe' business. I see that this is going to be a hotly debated subject. These are my thoughts only. Peace! Jeff Eckes PS- why is it considered OK to talk about somebody else's product, but not your own? Never did understand that..... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 21:28:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:44:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: music.com!ron2 From: "Wayne" To: optins56e@music.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: Self employment. Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 22:16:03 -0500 Message-ID: <199904210236.LAA00989@www.> Precedence: bulk Self employment with low overhead & nice profits. Request letter that explains for =46REE! =46OR MORE IN=46O REPLY TO: mailto:hiyu@atdot.org?=3Dinfo ********************************************************************* **** This message is being sent to a highly targeted list. If you receive this in error or it is redirected to you, we apologize! You can be remove from our list permanently if you wish by replying to: mailto:oyyu@usa.net?subject=3Dremove ********************************************************************* ***** ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 21:50:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 20:11:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: L shaped cuts Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 23:03:34 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.19334.0> References: <<1999Apr20.9034.0>> Precedence: bulk Thought so... I will probably be able to get a REAL detailed answer at the GAS show. Will let you know. Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Tim Atwood [mailto:atwoods@aisl.bc.ca] Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 7:01 PM To: Bungi Subject: Re: L shaped cuts Both standard opalescence and ring mottle in glass are caused by small crystals forming in the glass. Uroboros has a good article on this for their ring mottle. You may read it in their issue 15 of "Fast Breaking News" available on their web site at http://www.uroboros.com/ -----Original Message----- From: Steve Richard To: Jeff Eckes Date: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 4:09 PM Subject: Re: L shaped cuts >Jeff, > now we are getting into even more murky (for me) areas. I have >been under the impression that opalescence is an added constituent to >the glass (in past times I think it was arsenic). > Does anyone have information on both opalescence and the stipple >of Yough. glass? >Steve > > In message <1999Apr20.34826.0@?>, Jeff Eckes > writes >>Does not an opal glass become opaque because of "...small crystalline >>structures that form in the glass as it cools in a certain way, which >>scatter the light...". I don't remember who the quote was from (maybe Sean >>at Youghegenny Glass, we where talking about how he got stipple to look that >>way) and I don't know all that much about glass chemistry BUT I do seem to >>remember this quote for some reason. >> >>Jeff Eckes >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Steve Richard [mailto:s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk] >>Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 3:10 AM >>To: Jeff Eckes >>Cc: glass@bungi.com >>Subject: Re: L shaped cuts >> >>Jeff >> If glass were a crystalline structure, we could not see through >>it. De-vitrification is a formation of a crystalline structure on the >>surface of the glass. While glass does have a fairly regular structure >>it does not have a crystalline structure. >> >>I will go look up my text books to provide the source. >> >>Steve >> >> >>In message <1999Apr18.171640.0@?>, Jeff Eckes >> writes >>>Websters defines "amorphous" as >>> >>>1. having no determinate form; of irregular shape. (this probably comes >>>close) >>>2. having no regular structure; non crystalline. (does glass not have a >>>crystalline structure?) >>>3. Formless; characterless; unorganized; vague. (defines me better than the >>>glass!) >>> >>>Keep it up folks, we are getting there >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Steve Richard [mailto:s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk] >>>Sent: Sunday, April 18, 1999 12:40 PM >>>To: Jeff Eckes >>>Subject: Re: L shaped cuts >>> >>>Some scientists describe glass as an amorphous solid (as opposed to >>>fluid or supercooled liquid). This gets into the right area of >>>thinking. >>> >>>Steve >>> >>>In message <1999Apr16.101818.0@?>, Jeff Eckes >>> writes >>>>Charles, >>>>I believe what you remember is a quote relating to glass a "liquid". >>>>Some folks use this instead of 'fluid'. >>>>Lokk in a good encyclopedia and you will find that glass is a "...fluid in >>>a >>>>solid state..." Not that doesn't confuse the issue even more! >>>> >>>>Jeff Eckes >>>> >>>>(by the way, I MEANT to write that mercury was a LIQUID here and a SOLID >>on >>>>Neptune. Sorry) >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: Charles Spitzer [mailto:charles_spitzer@stratus.com] >>>>Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 9:12 AM >>>>To: glassgiraffe@earthlink.net >>>>Subject: RE: L shaped cuts >>>> >>>>i believe, in the last couple of years, that i read somewhere that glass >>is >>>>neither fluid or solid, but 'something else'. the reason is that it >>>>exhibits properties of both, sometimes at the same time. i don't have a >>>>recent url tho that points to this. >>>> >>>>regards, >>>>charlie >>>> >>>>At 01:43 PM 4/15/99 -0400, you wrote: >>>>>I have been following this thread for some time and I have a few comments >>>>>(oh nooooo....) then I HAVE TO go do marbles! >>>>> >>>>>1. Those who say that a "L" shaped cut WILL eventually fracture are wrong >>>>>2. Those who say that an "l" shaped cut MAY eventually fracture are >>>>correct. >>>>> >>>>>I have seen 100 year old glass panels with perfectly intact "l" shoped >>>cuts >>>>>(and WORSE!) as well as 2 week old panels with the same cut that is >>>cracked >>>>>in the obvious place. >>>>>It depends as much on how you distribute the internal stresses in a panel >>>>as >>>>>to what shapes you cut. >>>>> >>>>>ALSO: if you want to determine what kind of stresses are present in a >>>>>particular piece of glass, just use a polariscope to find out (try it on >>>>>some of your favorite glass to see if it is annealed properly, you might >>>be >>>>>surprised!) the same as if you where fusing. >>>>> >>>>>KEEP THIS IN MIND: glass is a FLUID which is usually encountered in its >>>>>frozen state (on the planet Mercury it would be liquid, like mercury is >>>>>solid on this planet but not on Neptune. Truly an issue of perspective, >>>>>no?) Therefore most of the dynamics of solid mechanics goes out the >>>>window. >>>>>Look to FLUID mechanics (hydraulic) for the true skinny on glass. >>>> >>>>-- >>>>Charles Spitzer >>>>Stratus Computer, Inc >>>>Speaking from Stratus, not for Stratus, Ascend, or Lucent >>>> >>>> >>>>---- >>>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>>>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >>> >>>-- >>>Steve Richard >>>Verrier Art Glass Ltd >>>s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk >>>---- >>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >>> >>>---- >>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >>-- >>Steve Richard >>Verrier Art Glass Ltd >>s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >-- >Steve Richard >Verrier Art Glass Ltd >s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 21:54:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 20:11:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: [Fwd) RE: preplanned repairs? Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 23:03:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.19347.0> References: <<199904201255.IAA00131@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk Not real fair is it Albert? I don't believe that I said it was "pre-planned repairs", did I? Get the TRUE information to Julie-research done by PPG and some of the other glass giants-on this subject and then ask her again. Give me some time when I get back from GAS to put it together for you and the list (and Julie, yes) and THEN let us move forward, with knowledge, not misquoted statements taken out of context. Really Albert, low blow here. You know better. Jeff Eckes -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis [mailto:alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 5:03 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: [Fwd) RE: preplanned repairs? In response to some of the comments made here about "pre-planned repairs," I asked Julie Sloan to comment. She has, below. -- Albert ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- What work could possibly need to be done in 3-4 years on a well-made, new window? Even restored windows, using old glass and sometimes old lead, shouldn't need to be "visited" that regularly. Sounds like planned obsolescence to me. That's certainly NOT a marketing technique that we would espouse. Julie Sloan ================================ Julie L. Sloan Vice-president, Cummings Studio PO Box 427, North Adams, MA 01247 (413) 664-6578; fax (413) 664-6570 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 22:11:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 20:11:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Business approaches (was Window treatments (was newbie question) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 23:03:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.19330.0> References: <<1999Apr20.21383.0>> Precedence: bulk EVERONE is entitled to different OPINIONS....:) That's what makes us people. JE -----Original Message----- From: Steve Richard [mailto:s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 3:38 PM To: Jeff Eckes Subject: Business approaches (was Window treatments (was newbie question) OK Jeff. I respect your way of going about doing business, even if I don't agree with it. So I am not trying to "slag" (a UK term) you off. But I don't agree for several reasons relating to my view of what I am doing when I am in business to create and restore decorative glass. I feel this discussion may get toward the difference between business (which could be in any area of work or product) and the art and craft of decorative glass. Because it is possible to make a living from art and craft (a different one than the life style of a business person, of course) In message <1999Apr20.34829.0@?>, Jeff Eckes writes >No and I will tell you why, > >This business of stained glass is a business, plain and simple. If a >treatment or product: > >1. Does no harm to a window My ethics say that if a treatment does no good to a window, it should not be done. >2. Does do some good (no matter how incremental it is) Well, if a treatment is of only marginal good, then the question has to be asked whether the good is great enough to be carried out, even if the cost is small. >3. Provides a benefit to the customer the benefit to the customer is questionable in this case. Yes, the customer may perceive a benefit, but not one I am happy to sell. >4. Allows you to make profit where you could not before (found money, so to >speak) This is in the realms of convincing people to spend money for perceived benefit, which perception you have created. To me it seems a little dishonest (But I won't accuse anyone taking up this business behaviour as anything other than "businesslike") >5. Gives you a marketing advantage over your competitor (as perceived by the >customer) I want my marketing advantage to be one of design and craftsmanship. I am not interested in the sale of products and services of doubtful utility. >6. Keeps you in touch with good customers that can recommend future work I can think of many other ways of keeping in touch without charging my customer for questionably useful services. E. G. Christmas cards Birthday cards Anniversary (of the installation) cards Exhibition and Open Day invitations ETC. I'm sure there are lots of others that I haven't used. > >Then this product WORKS and should be considered as part of an overall >business plan. >I see one of the problems facing this industry as a matter of a lack of >business acumen. One reason that an outfit like "stained glass overlay" can >come into our market and wreak such havoc. Perhaps I do have a lack of business acumen, but I am unwilling to accept that SGO has had its success simply because I don't have the "BA". SGO is cheap and easy to apply. It looks so most of the time too. People who in general do not wish to pay for the real thing have a suitable product in the SGO. If we define ourselves as merely in the stained glass market, then we are in a small niche market. If we define ourselves as decorative architectural glass artists, then we can take on skyscraper scale work. >As someone who is both an artist AND has much experience in sales and >marketing, I say we need to build our businesses away we can, that is >honest! Simply ignoring a process or product because "it was never done >that way" is foolish and antithetical to 'building' a business for the >future that is truly diverse. I would not like to ignore new processes. Often the difficulty is finding out about them. I do NOT want to apply processes and services which are untested, or unnecessary. I guess I am just not open to all business opportunities. So, maybe that makes me a less good business man. > >And my response to "...whether it is in Julie Sloan's book..." is: does she >even know what a hydrophobic polymer is? I doubt it. But I would love to >really explain it to her and let her try it and see what her reaction is to >it after an honest appraisal. I'd guess Ms Sloan does know what a hydrophobic polymer is. Even I do. I would agree that whether it is in Julie's book is a partial red herring. All books of the nature of hers date and need to be updated by reading the periodical literature. >Remember, this stuff is only a few molecules thick on a window and has NEVER >shown any tendency to discolor or harm the glass (OR lead) in any way. > I guess the two lines above sum up my concern. If the material does not discolour or harm the glass or lead, but does not help; then what is the purpose other than increasing turnover? If we are honest about increasing turnover, I have no quarrel. But if we are saying it will (hand on heart) HELP preserve the window or other decorative glass object, then I do have a different opinion. > > Best wishes for business success. Steve in the Scottish business backwaters (We were told on the news only today, that young Scots do not have the confidence and drive to start new, winning businesses) > >-----Original Message----- >From: Steve Richard [mailto:s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk] >Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 3:12 AM >To: Albert Lewis >Subject: Window treatments (was newbie question) > >So, does Albert's response about lead corrosion answer the question >about periodic treatments of windows? >Steve > >In message <199904190848.EAA15699@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>, Albert Lewis > writes >> >>> I would like to make some garden markers, and am wondering if lead >>> rusts if the piece is left outside. >> >>Well, it doesn't *rust, exactly, but it does oxidize, although that >>makes it more resistant to the effects of the weather. Not to worry; >>stained glass windows have been exposed to the elements for hundreds >>of years and it's been found that *protecting them from the weather's >>worse for them than allowing the rain to wash them and air to move >>across them. >> >>This raises the question, "then why protective glazing?" One word: >>vandals. It's not the elements that the protective glazing's for. >> >>Albert >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >-- >Steve Richard >Verrier Art Glass Ltd >s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 22:16:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 20:12:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: GAS question Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 23:03:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.19328.0> References: <<00a801be8b9e$3cfa8fe0$17eebad1@rjlcon>> Precedence: bulk GAS is from the 29th to the 2nd. My marble demo is on Thursday at the university I believe. Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Jak N Wolfy [mailto:rjlcon@ticnet.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 10:26 PM To: Jeff Eckes Subject: GAS question Sorry to change the subject, but isn't GAS in Tampa ?? and when? We will be down in St. Pete the first week of May and thought that I read somewhere that it was during that time and we would like to come and see the show and your work. Jackie -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Eckes To: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, April 18, 1999 10:05 PM Subject: RE: L shaped cuts >I stand corrected Steve, >I misread the passage on temp. to be "...up to 750 degrees C..." it was >actually "...up to 750 degrees F.." A bit of a difference there, I >admit....;-) > >Jeff Eckes > >-----Original Message----- >From: Steve Richard [mailto:s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk] >Sent: Sunday, April 18, 1999 12:10 PM >To: Jeff Eckes >Subject: Re: L shaped cuts > >Jeff, > Why would glass be a liquid on Mercury? Is the surface temperature >that high? Ignorance is not bliss. > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 22:26:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 20:13:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Window treatments (was newbie question) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 23:03:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.19324.0> References: <<1999Apr20.161436.0>> Precedence: bulk There is one other issue at hand here. Don't have time to go into it here but if any of you get Glass, the magazine of the NGA then look up some info on the etching of glass by the acidic rain that we have now in most parts of the country. Designers of multi-billion dollar buildings are specifying thousands of dollars to coat their windows with hydrophobic chemicals in am attempt to lengthen the time between replacements. In fact the convention center that hosted the AGSA several years ago in Nashville had this problem, and it was NOT all that old! Glass is NOT the impervious material that some make it out to be. Just check out the 'rain spots' on your windshield. They don't come off do they? Jeff Eckes -----Original Message----- From: Dani Greer [mailto:GreerStudios@compuserve.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 8:15 PM To: INTERNET:ctombro@InfoAve.Net Subject: Re: Window treatments (was newbie question) Message text written by INTERNET:ctombro@InfoAve.Net >he original stained glass windows were still there, unharmed from any and all weather elements without even the benefit of "storm windows" or thermopane. And, they were still beautiful without benefit of any special care IMHO. < That's because doing it correctly the first time is about as good as it gets. The time-honored technique doesn't need much = improvement. And, we have the satisfaction of knowing that the materials and technique are archival and will look alot = better than the artist will in 50 years.... or more. Like Lee Iococca said, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." = As far as protecting sandblasted glass with a polymer? Why? The smooth side doesn't need protection and the blasted side.... well, I would think it would lose the etched effect.... and I don't think it needs protecting anyway. = All of this conversation reminds me of wearing rubber galoshes on a cloudless summer day in Arizona... unnecessary, pointless. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 22:28:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 20:13:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Window treatments (was newbie question) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 23:03:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.19321.0> References: <<199904201921.MAA11121@oceanus.island.net>> Precedence: bulk BINGO!! -----Original Message----- From: seaspray@island.net [mailto:seaspray@island.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 3:21 PM To: Jeff Eckes Cc: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Window treatments (was newbie question) >This business of stained glass is a business, plain and simple. If a >treatment or product: > >1. Does no harm to a window >2. Does do some good (no matter how incremental it is) >3. Provides a benefit to the customer >4. Allows you to make profit where you could not before (found money, so to >speak) >5. Gives you a marketing advantage over your competitor (as perceived by the >customer) >6. Keeps you in touch with good customers that can recommend future work > >Then this product WORKS and should be considered as part of an overall >business plan. >I see one of the problems facing this industry as a matter of a lack of >business acumen. One reason that an outfit like "stained glass overlay" can >come into our market and wreak such havoc. >As someone who is both an artist AND has much experience in sales and >marketing, I say we need to build our businesses away we can, that is >honest! Simply ignoring a process or product because "it was never done >that way" is foolish and antithetical to 'building' a business for the >future that is truly diverse. Jeff, I think what you're saying is that this is just a way of bringing a "value-added" product to the stained glass industry, and I would use the analogy here of buying a service contract for exercise equipment. One of my recent clients and I had a discussion about how people are willing to pay for followup care of their purchases and how often he sells a service contract for home gym equipment (guess what he sells :) ). Now I ask you...does an exercise bicycle really need more than, say a shot of oil once in a while? Likely not, however homeowners are busy and are willing to pay to have it taken care of. It's a value added service that he supplies to his clients. It serves the function of keeping him in touch with his clients...to sell upgrades, new equipment, etc. as well as buying the client peace of mind. I work mainly with residential clients whose final question is often "how do I care for this piece?". Without saying anything about the merits/drawbacks of the product Jeff is promoting, I see a LOT of positives in the idea of perhaps offering a professional sg annual window cleaning service and will be mulling the possibilities of this over. Without wanting to fly in the face of the established studios and professionals and get into the necessary/unnecessary debate from a technical perspective, I venture to ask how different this is from sending out newsletters and promotional info to existing and prospective clients. Isn't it all really about relationship building and perceived value? C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 20 22:36:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:16:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: NON GLASS: Plating of lead and solder Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:02:25 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.14225.0> Precedence: bulk I have been searching for some sites with info on a question that I read awhile back about plating instead of patina'ing a project. Here are some links that I found. http://www.thinktink.com http://www.thinktink.com/faqs/cupltfaq/cupltf01.htm#powder http://www.thinktink.com/stack/volumes/voliii/equipmnt/bubltank/bubltank.htm http://www.caswellplating.com/nsindex.htm Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 00:50:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 23:47:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Jeff Eckes" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: Window treatments (was newbie question) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 02:46:52 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.224652.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Jeff Eckes" >Grinders? Saws? Chemical (vs. mechanical) lamination?< Don't use any of the above (well, okay, maybe the grinder once in a blue moon, but not because I bought the dang thing!) and our profit margin seems to be pretty healthy.... and the work load. Got two more windows to build yet before the night is over.... another install tomorrow. Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 01:02:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 23:48:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Jeff Eckes" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: Window treatments (was newbie question) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 02:46:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.224648.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Jeff Eckes" >I know, but saying "...it's been done for hundreds of years..." just does not wash anymore.< Why not? If it works and there's nothing *better to replace it.... only something "newer", what does that have to do with being a good businessman? I don't believe convincing the consumer they need something is good business unless there is a true need.... not just a perception. And, frankly, the impact on our planet of all this consumerism, all these needs that marketing has created, are starting to catch up with us. No, I'll do it my way.... put my best into every window I create, use the techniques and materials that I know are proven to work for a looonnnnggg long time, and hope that someone will be enjoying my contribution after I'm dead and buried. Don't want 'em knocking on my = door three years after I deliver the window looking for maintenance work. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios (who didn't like the emperor's new clothes either= .) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 01:20:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 23:48:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Glass Expressions" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: help-need glass paint Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 02:46:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.224646.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Ricky- If you're doing kiln-fired painting, you can buy Reusche paints that they mill into squeegee oil which can then be used as you would use any silkscreen color... they used to have a 3-pound minimum order because it is a special order. Don't have their number in front of me, but you can get it from the IGGA Sources Guide. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 01:25:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 23:48:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Jeff Eckes" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: [Fwd) RE: preplanned repairs? Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 02:46:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.224654.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Jeff Eckes" >Really Albert, low blow here. You know better.< Well, if Albert misunderstood, Jeff, so did I and I think most of the list would agree that we're two of the more level-headed in the group. I'm not clear on your motivation = here either... except your desire to make money. Nothing wrong with that unless your ripping off the public. Let me ask you this - why do you believe a stained glass window requires maintenance every three to four years, when history proves that = they will do just fine left alone for many many more years? Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 01:36:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 23:49:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Jeff Eckes" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: Window treatments (was newbie question) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 02:46:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.224657.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Carol Swann: > >1. Does no harm to a window - Has not been verified by a = conservator. >2. Does do some good (no matter how incremental it is) - also only an advertising claim. Let us see some scientific evidence. >3. Provides a benefit to the customer - what is it? Another = appointment to schedule with your friendly glazier? >4. Allows you to make profit where you could not before (found money, so= to >speak) - Hmmmm, questionable tactics in my mind. >5. Gives you a marketing advantage over your competitor (as perceived by= the >customer) - our marketing advantage is artistic ability... original and = one-of-a-kind work on commissions. Our strongest advantage is via formal art education and the willingness to practice, practice, practice.= >6. Keeps you in touch with good customers that can recommend future work= - We keep in touch by having an art showing at another gallery every few years... we invite all our customers to the opening reception via a color= postcard.... gives them a chance to see what we can do when we "stretch out". I'm not convinced that planned maintenance = benefits the industry as a whole. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios >< ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 03:20:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 02:28:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: hotmail.com!winstonga From: "Winston Winston" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Glue Question Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 02:27:23 PDT Message-ID: <1999Apr21.92723.0> Precedence: bulk Yes, I use a grinder. I have tried using a couple of types of glue to stick the pattern onto the glass I am trying to shape, but the pattern washes off before I have finished grinding. Any suggestions on a glue that will hold the pattern, but not be a big pain to remove from the glass? Perhaps rubber cement? Thanks. Buck _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 04:21:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 03:19:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netrax.net!rejones From: Bob Jones To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Subscribe Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:09:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.2954.0> Precedence: bulk Please put me back on the list. Thanks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 05:50:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 04:49:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aracnet.net!bigcreek From: Wayne Parks To: Glass Expressions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: help-need glass paint Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 07:47:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.3473.0> References: <<1999Apr21.52452.0>> Organization: Big Creek Studio Precedence: bulk Ricky: Dani is right, the best way to go would be to use Reusche Glass paints and squeegee oil, but you do not have to buy premixed. Use any paint, (tracing black and dark colours work best) and mix yourself with the squeegee oil instead of water and gum arabic. Mix to a consistency of honey and silk-screen as you would with normal silk-screen paint. Fire in a kiln to 1200-1250 and you will have an image with as much detail as you can put on a silk screen. Regards, Wayne ________________ Wayne Parks Big Creek Studio http://bigcreek.cjb.net To bring the dead to life Is no great magic. Few are wholly dead: Blow on a dead mans embers And a live flame will start. Robert Graves ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 06:17:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 05:14:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ezl.com!stepsue From: Sue Prullage To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: framing large panel Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:57:08 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.0578.0> Organization: stainedglassdesign.com Precedence: bulk I have two 64' x 19' panels that I reinforced appropriately, but when I framed them the 64' side will pull away from the glass in the middle. I understand it is because it is so long, but what can I use to anchor the glass panel to the wood frame. The client did not want it to fit exactly into the window, but suspend in front. Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks ahead of time, Sue ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 07:21:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:11:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Fwd) RE: Window treatments (was newbie question) Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:16:52 +0000 Message-ID: <199904211309.JAA02839@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- If Jeff would like to send me some of his product, I'll be happy to have my craftspeople test it. May we have an MSDS, too? ================================ Julie L. Sloan Vice-president, Cummings Studio 182 E. Main St., PO Box 427, North Adams, MA 01247 (413) 664-6578; fax (413) 664-6570 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 07:49:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:37:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!ezcomezgo From: rrk To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: PI4 and seeing finished product Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:42:05 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr20.23425.0> References: <<1999Apr21.6949.0>> Precedence: bulk ktsplash wrote: > http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/armani/268/pi4tut7/ > Gee willikers, just look what they can do with Photo Impact 4 and some glass > sample files and a pattern from Spectrum. (Kinda spooky, in a way.) > Seems like you could get a really good idea what your finished work will > look like, using your own pattern, glass sample pictures, and a bit of time. > Anyone done this? I have heaps of trouble imagining finished product when > looking at a couple of sheets of glass, trying to decide if colours go > together, etc. (although I am getting better with practice.) But I can see > myself using this for a big project worth a lot of time and money - just to > reassure myself - and the customer. Katie, Yes, other people do it. I use AutoCAD to make the line designs. >From AutoCAD I copy and paste the b/w line design into PaintShopPro. In PSP, I open the glass files downloaded from the net (Spectrum, Kokomo, Uroboros, Youghigheny, and so on), and paste them into the line design one after the other. This electronic file looks a LOT like the final product and is just fine for design level work. That is, it gives a very good idea of how the panel will look in real life. However, this is NOT real life but electronic manipulation so you must caution both yourself AND the client that the final work may look somewhat different. In the world of CAD (Computer Aided Design), there are many rendering programs and they're getting better and better. Architects use them on a daily basis as do most mechanical design engineers and so on. One could take this image, put it into a 3D file for the house, and even see what the panel will look like in the house. You can even control the angle and amount of light by the time of day and the latitude and longitude of the structure at a specific time of year. One can even take an image downloaded from the net, and from this image define a material with a given amount of opacity etc. The newly defined material can be use to define each piece of glass in a proposed work, and then rendered with the rest of the house, from a perspective view such that : this is how the panel will look in a specific house to a 5'6" person standing 8' from the window at 4 in the afternoon on May 4th. Believe me ... this stuff is VERY realistic now, and not even very expensive (relatively speaking). In the near future, all serious large scale glass projects will probably be done this way before a single piece of glass is cut. Later ......... Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 07:53:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 07:00:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!S-Perchelli From: S-Perchelli@webtv.net (Susan Perchelli) To: GreerStudios@compuserve.com (Dani Greer), glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary=WebTV-Mail-1293354258-284 Subject: RE: [Fwd) RE: preplanned repairs? Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:00:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr20.2300.0> References: <> Precedence: bulk --WebTV-Mail-1293354258-284 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Dani Greer wrote: Well, if Albert misunderstood, Jeff, so did I and I think most of the list would agree that we're two of the more level-headed in the group. ******************************** Really? So where does that put all the rest of us? Sue --WebTV-Mail-1293354258-284 Content-Description: signature Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/HTML; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Guido told me to keep my mouth shut, but I didn't listen. So now...me and Salvatore "The Mute" are learning sign language together. --WebTV-Mail-1293354258-284-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 08:54:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 07:40:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: ArtWalk'99 Kamloops Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 07:38:19 -0700 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Hi Guys! Kinda on cloud 9 here and I'd like to share this with you. The Art Council of Kamloops, (where I have just moved to, pop. 100,000) has just *kicked off* ArtWalk'99, a partnership between Kamloops Arts and business communities. 60 artists have their *own* location to exhibit their art in different businesses through out the city. This runs Apr. 19th to May 8th. My location given to me was where the *kickoff* reception was to be (talk about being kinda nervous) and it was only my work being shown. The evening started with networking about me:) I was introduced to members of the Art council, big wigs of Kamloops and other artists....(for a little country mouse like myself I was grinning from ear to ear!) This lasted for an hour and then the ceremonies started and speeches were made (luckliy I was not asked, I don't think I could have done it) and ribbon cutting. Anyhow that lasted an hour and the last hour was more networking, picture taking (2 newpapers have my mug shot talking to the Art Council and I get a private interview with another one). Networking was fabulous and I sold my dragon plate *twice* (nothing is supposed to be marked for sale this is an exhibit only), have a window commisson in the future and 3 outlets interested in my work. All I can say is WOW and YIPEE! Off to being humble again:) Cindy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 09:22:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 07:41:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: stained glass exposure Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:40:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.64012.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Steve Wernecke >Does anyone know what building codes would have to say about such an enclosure? I would assume that tempered glass is required here. < My panels are being sandwitched between two tempered glass panels, then being installed into the shower enclosure. The owner is a building contractor who is constructing his own home. I assume he has all the building codes taken care of, but I was only contracted to build two stained glass panels to a specific size. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 09:56:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:19:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Fwd) RE: Window treatments (was newbie question) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:16:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.7168.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Albert Lewis" > If Jeff would like to send me some of his product, I'll be happy to have my craftspeople test it. May we have an MSDS, too? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Julie L. Sloan Vice-president, Cummings Studio 182 E. Main St., PO Box 427, North Adams, MA 01247 (413) 664-6578; fax (413) 664-6570 < Oh, thanks Julie.... that's the quickest and best way to put minds at ease. Appreciate your time checking into this. I, for one, would rather know that what I'm using is archival. Nothing like putting something to the test.... but, I still would like an authoritative answer on how often a stained glass window needs so-called maintenance work. I don't believe = Michael has had to do maintenance work on his windows in 25 years. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 10:14:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:23:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Glass colorants and opalizers Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:22:01 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr21.15221.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/20/99 10:31:06 PM, Witchdoc3@aol.com writes: >white crystals in the flass Oops, that's "white crystals in the GLASS"! Sparks, certified non-typist ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 10:30:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:24:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:22:12 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr21.152212.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/20/99 11:30:47 PM, andor@ilnk.com writes: >kids gunning down groups of people. KIDS!!!! Yeah........ Somehow it wasn't even surprising. Shocking, yes, always, but not surprising. And I shocked myself by my reaction, a more-disgusted-than-anything "Students, *again*?" (My other half's reaction was also interesting: "Let's see Charlton Heston try to talk his way outta this one.") Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 10:34:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:24:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Glue Question Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:22:07 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr21.15227.0> Precedence: bulk Buck's enquiring mind wants to know: >Any suggestions >on a glue that will hold the pattern, but not be a big pain to remove >from the glass? Have you used a glue stick (UHU or something like it)? If you're really desperate, you might try a very light coating of some kind of spray-tack adhesive. I've been tempted to try that with the itty bitty pieces but haven't actually done it. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 10:52:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:24:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: RE: Window treatments (was newbie question) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:22:16 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr21.152216.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/21/99 4:03:33 AM, GreerStudios@compuserve.com writes: >Don't want 'em knocking on my >door three years after I deliver the window looking >for maintenance work. I'm with you....... do any of us really *want* to create a demand for a "value-added service" that will (1) take our time and energy away from the creative work that's our real reason for being here and (2) possibly detract from the "it'll outlast all of us" message that's not only true of a well-made piece but also an important part of the mystique and attraction of stained glass? But then I'm one of those weirdos who doesn't go for service contracts/extended warranties on anything unless I'm buying used or reconditioned in the first place. Got the 2-year warranty on the used van we bought last fall, and the 3-year warranty on the reconditioned computer last summer, but if I buy something new, I expect it to work properly (and in former lives when I had the energy I've been known to raise enough hell to get repairs or replacements on out-of-warranty stuff). It took me about the first 10 years of my adult life to realize how much money I was throwing away on innecessary "insurance," and these days I tell those pushy sales creatures right off the bat that only once in 25 years have I ever gotten my money's worth out of a service contract on anything I bought new. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 10:58:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:31:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "Susan Perchelli" , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Re: [Fwd) RE: preplanned repairs? Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:27:56 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.72756.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01BE8BEA.00931580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well we really don't know to much about the lurkers. But the rest of = the group I think is comprised mostly of levelheaded folks. Whatever = level headed might mean. pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: Susan Perchelli To: Dani Greer ; glass@bungi.com = Date: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 11:17 AM Subject: RE: [Fwd) RE: preplanned repairs? =20 =20 Dani Greer wrote: =20 Well, if Albert misunderstood, Jeff, so did I and I think most of = the list would agree that we're two of the more level-headed in the = group.=20 ******************************** Really? So where does that put all the rest of us?=20 =20 Sue =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01BE8BEA.00931580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well we really don't know to much = about the=20 lurkers.  But the rest of the group I think is comprised mostly of=20 levelheaded folks.   Whatever level headed might = mean.
 
 
pj
 
Paul Friend Architectural Glass = & Design,=20 Inc.
www.waterw.com/~artglass
= Accredited=20 Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America
Member=20 International Guild of Glass Artists
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Susan Perchelli <S-Perchelli@webtv.net>
To:=20 Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>;=20 glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date:=20 Wednesday, April 21, 1999 11:17 AM
Subject: RE: [Fwd) = RE:=20 preplanned repairs?

Dani Greer = wrote:

Well, if=20 Albert misunderstood, Jeff, so did I and I think most of the
list = would=20 agree that we're two of the more level-headed in the group.=20
********************************
Really? So where does that = put all=20 the rest of us?

Sue

------=_NextPart_000_0055_01BE8BEA.00931580-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 10:58:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:35:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!ezcomezgo From: rrk To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Window treatments (was newbie question) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:41:39 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.14139.0> References: <<1999Apr20.19321.0>> Precedence: bulk Jeff, and Dani, and Albert, and Steve, and Bud, .... and all the others, Let me start off by saying that giraffe joos is probably an excellent product that does what its claimed it does. I qualify the above with "probably" only because I haven't used that specific product though I do know (or have a pretty good idea about) the general chemistry (vide infra). There is clearly some confusion about what this product is, what it does, whether it works or not, and whether one should use it or not. Perhaps I can contribute to an increased understanding. Now to get things correct about the chemistry of all this. Waxes are generally a mixture of low polarity low molecular weight organic substances generally of natural origin. Low molecular weight means less than 1000 - 2000 amu. Organic means composition of CHNO (Carbon, Hydrogen, Nitrogen, Oxygen) and/or other less common elements that form bonds with carbon such as sulfur, phosphorus and so on but in very low quantity. Waxes are generally not reactive and will not form covalent bonds between themselves and the surface of whatever they're being applied to but adhere to this surface by other non-covalent forces. At the molecular level, these non-covalent forces are relatively weak and the wax can be just rubbed off the surface of glass, or, wiped off with a suitable low polarity solvent on a rag. Furthermore, most commercial waxes have many substances in them which eventually oxidize to highly colored products. This is why wax "yellows". A polymer is a high molecular substance, generally much greater than 1000-2000 amu, that is composed of one or more low molecular weight monomers that have been covalently bonded to one another during a chemical reaction. The monomers may be organic or inorganic, and the resulting polymer may be either organic or inorganic. Polyethylene (used to make sandwich bags and so on) is composed of many units of ethylene which have been reacted to form long chains and is an organic polymer. Polystyrene, an organic polymer (foam insulation) is made of styrene. Milk bottles are made of polypropylene, many units of propylene. Cotton is made of cellulose, which is a polymer of sugar. Carpet, clothes, automobile tires ... and many other products are all polymers of simpler monomers, most are organic substances. Proteins are also polymers and have various combinations of 20 monomers (the amino acids). Anyone who has ever painted a wall with water-based paint has seen a monomer polymerize. Anyone who has ever used linseed oil or tung oil to finish a piece of wood has used in-situ polymerization to protect the wood from oxidation. There are also inorganic polymers made up of monomers of inorganic substances. >From the properties of giraffe joos that have been described here on this list, my best guess is that its a mixture of di-, tri-, and tetrahydroxy silanes with a hydrophobic side group that undergoes a condensation reaction with the silanol groups (-SiOH) on the surface of glass to form a silyl ether bond (Glass-Si-O-Si-Hydrophobic Group). A protective layer is now bonded to the glass with the hydrophobic side groups forming the actual surface facing the outside world. This protective layer would render the surface of the glass somewhat waterproof though "eventually" the coating will just wash off due to hydrolysis of the binding group. Where "eventually" can be years to decades (or more) depending on : (1) the composition of the atmosphere, (2) The humidity of the atmosphere, and hence the rate of hydrolysis, (3) the amount of UV light the window is exposed to, (4) how often and with what the window is washed. The silyl ether bridges hydrolyze in the presence of acidic water (< pH 2.5) or alkaline water (> pH 11.5) and for a window exposed to rain, especially rain that is somewhat acidic (not exactly unknown in modern industrial society), this will happen faster. Such a coating should still last for years if not decades ... or longer. If there are multiple hydroxysilanes on the molecule (possibly the case) then there should be (probably is) some intramolecular polymerization as well as intermolecular polymerization. This would render the final coating somewhat thicker and more long-lasting (e.g. a better coating). Any coating of this nature would probably NOT discolor due to oxidation. Any coating of this nature WOULD protect the underlying glass from pitting and corrosion. There are polymers that would adhere to the surface of the glass, but the above is my best guess given the properties of giraffe joos as described by Jeff. Pure glass is a remarkably unreactive substance. However, glass DOES chemically react with a number of substances including hydrofluoric acid (aka etching cream) as well as concentrated phosphoric acid and its alkali metal salts just to name some of the more common substances that react with glass (there are others). Dilute phosphoric acid is one of the main ingredients of cocacola and other similar products. Phosphates (particularly Calcium Phosphate) form fairly strong bonds with the silanols on the surface of glass. These are the waterspots on glass. If prevented from forming these bonds, phosphates will not form waterspots on glass and the glass won't have to be cleaned as often. That alone would justify the use of giraffe joos on finished stained glass pieces exposed to the outside world. Furthermore, stained glass is NOT pure glass but a mixture of glass with various metal oxides and other ingredients. The other ingredients of glass (particularly the metal oxides) chemically react with a LOT of things. Today, 1999, there are LOTS of things floating around in the atmosphere that shouldn't be there and many of those things-that-should-not-be-there will "do things" to a piece of stained glass, either the glass matrix or the other ingredients of glass. Protecting a work of art (stained glass) from degradation by the atmosphere and things in the atmosphere is, of course, purely voluntary and not strictly necessary ... but its still not a bad idea if the work of art has some value attached. The argument that its not been done that way till now and therefore not "time honored" is quite an antiquarian way of looking at things. This old-fashioned and quaint attitude may be appealing to some of you but I find it kind of silly in a plain old ordinary everyday way. Though mankind got along fine from time immemorial by walking everywhere, I don't imagine the proponents of this view will give up their automobile, or their bicycles. Ditto for washing machines, clothes dryers, food processors, microwave ovens, telephone, television, radio ... complete the list with improvements to life in the 20th century. This giraffe joos WILL protect the stained glass, there is no doubt of that ... and just because old great grampaw didn't use it back in 1880 doesn't mean WE shouldn't in 1999. Louis Tiffany didn't have any carbide-coated wheels for glass cutting. You going to stop using those too? The business aspect of this that Jeff brought up is something else .... and I won't comment on that. [FYI, I have some patents regarding the use of similar agents to coat the inner surface of Fused Silica Capillary Columns (FSCC) to modify the surface properties for their use in Capillary Electrophoresis (CE) and Capillary Gas Chromatography (GC) as well as other analytical tools. In CE one modifies the surface to enhance or diminish the zeta potential, and thereby the electroosmotic flow as well as the absortion potential for specific analytes. In GC, one modifies the surface to diminish absorption and maximize certain gas-solid and/or gas/liquid interactions. Fused Silica is essentially a chemically prepared and highly purified form of quartz (e.g. glass) covered on the outside with polyimide for strength since fused silica is quite brittle. FSCC's are basically an optical fiber with a hole in the middle. My wife is working in this area right now . She modifies the inner surface of FSCC's to diminish electroosmotic flow, fills them with a gel, and then uses them for DNA analysis.] While I'm at it, there is one other issue I should try to shed some light on. The collective enterprise of mankind termed science recognizes three fundamental states of matter : solid, liquid, gas. Any substance can exist in any of the three states depending on the surrounding temperature and pressure. To use a substance everyone knows : H2O can be a solid (ice), liquid (water), or gas depending on conditions (pressure and temperature). Every substance has a unique phase diagram of temperature and pressure with which one can accurately predict which state the substance will be in under a given set of conditions. Phase diagrams are very useful to working scientists and commonly used. With phase diagrams, glass is classified as a supercooled liquid. Many (most) scientists accept that a plasma [matter in a VERY VERY VERY hot state] is another state of matter. The surface of a star is a plasma. Some (very few) say that vitreous substances (e.g. glass, though there ARE other vitreous substances) is another state of matter but this is NOT widely accepted. [read that to mean that most scientists think classifying vitreous substances as a separate state of matter is nonsense, which is why you will NOT find this classification in many places]. The above is how glass is defined by modern science. It is not a matter of opinion. It is not a question of artistic interpretation. How one "feels" about it, is not relevant. Glass is a supercooled liquid. Glass is not a solid. Period. Any of you can call glass a solid till hell freezes over, but that won't make the usage correct ... and it will make you look kind of foolish to those who do know a little bit. So ... anyway ... you've been informed. Regards to all .......... Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 11:08:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:38:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cyberbeach.net!dayle From: Dayle To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Window treatments (was newbie question) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:38:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.73811.0> References: <<1999Apr20.9408.0>> Organization: Celestial Luminosities Precedence: bulk It is my understanding that inquiries into Jeff's product "giraffe joos" were made by someone on this list...he didn't approach the list in an effort to advertise. I think it's great that he has responded to inquiries and is giving list members another perspective on "finishing". Some may feel it has no application for traditional lead came but not everyone works in lead came either. I'm always interested in hearing how others finish their work and am grateful for Jeff's contributions. Isn't that what this forum is all about anyway? I also think that maybe he has a point about the "acid rain". Our environment isn't the same as it was many years ago and in time perhaps the traditional method of finishing won't hold up..... that's something to think about. We should always at least be open to new methods before blatantly disregarding them. Wonder how much opposition L. C. Tiffany encountered with his new copper foil method? I don't think it's fair to say Jeff's motives are to "rip people off", maybe his inquiring mind likes to explore new possibilities.... he seems to have alot of energy and I doubt if it's anything to feel threatened over. Just my opinion. Dayle ps Always thought I was level-headed, guess you learn something new everyday! Dani Greer wrote: > Message text written by "Albert Lewis" > >Of course, people *will try to sell stuff to use ... and say that = > > it's necessary, not that anyone here's trying to sell stuff. > < > > Very nicely said, Albert. As always, I appreciate your > tact and sensitivity. And it's true, over the years most = > > bungians have avoided using this forum to sell personal > stuff.... not that anyone minds a quick mention. But, = > > I don't believe this is the place for ongoing informercials. > All IMPO of course. > > Best, = > > Dani Greer > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 11:20:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:16:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Business approaches (was Window treatments (was newbie question) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:15:29 -0700 Message-ID: <199904211715.KAA20437@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk I'm wondering if this whole thread may have another basis...what I'm noticing is that the studios who HAVE established themselves and have more than enough work aren't keen on this thread. However there's lots of us out there that are still developing their presence, and I'm wondering if hunger might cause a person to look at more innovative ideas. I know I'm definitely in the "developing a presence" category and am working the system any way I can to get my name out there and keep it in people's awareness. Perhaps in 5 years I'll have enough people beating a path to my door, but for now...a lot of my time is spent in marketing. Some days I wonder if I actually DO glass or just market. Wondering if anyone has ever donated a s.g. panel for a prize to a national level golf tournament or similar event held in their community, and whether it generated any orders? C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 11:52:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:49:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ipa.net!gecko From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Sal Amoniac Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:47:56 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990421124756.00692b14@popd.ipa.net> Precedence: bulk Hi Bungians. I have a question for you. Do many of you out there use Sal Amoniac when soldering? ( I have no idea if I'm spelling that correctly ) I have used it for several years, but have noticed that lately, when I use it, I develop a mind-bending headache that is impervious to ibuprofin and lasts for about a day. After a full day of soldering, I can barely get out of bed. Of course, I know that I need to work on better ventilation. I had put it off because I really didn't do much soldering.... but with my booth at the fair coming up, I've soldered alot more. I was teaching a friend last night, and was only in the room with it for about 5 minutes, and I've had a killer headache ever since. Ok, here's the actual question(s).... Does anyone else have this same problem with the stuff? Is there something else that I can use to de-gunk my iron, that won't leave me near-comatose? Does it sound as if I've just reached my lead limit and my head is on the verge of exploding? I am buying a box fan today and am going to unstick the window so that I can put the fan in it, and hopefully sweep all fumes out. But if there IS an alternative to Sal Amoniac, I'm READY for it!! Thanks! Blake :-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 12:21:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:20:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: gbe.com!Laura.Dawson From: "Laura L Dawson" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Window treatments (was newbie question) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:23:46 -0500 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Thank you Bob! I hope we can put the giraffe joos debate to rest now. I personally love the stuff and use it all the time. Laura >>> rrk 04/21 10:41 AM >>> Jeff, and Dani, and Albert, and Steve, and Bud, .... and all the others, Let me start off by saying that giraffe joos is probably an excellent = product that does what its claimed it does. I qualify the above with "probably" = only because I haven't used that specific product though I do know (or have a = pretty good idea about) the general chemistry (vide infra). There is clearly some confusion about what this product is, what it does, whether it works or not, and whether one should use it or not. Perhaps I = can contribute to an increased understanding. Now to get things correct about the chemistry of all this. Waxes are generally a mixture of low polarity low molecular weight organic substances generally of natural origin. Low molecular weight means less = than 1000 - 2000 amu. Organic means composition of CHNO (Carbon, Hydrogen, = Nitrogen, Oxygen) and/or other less common elements that form bonds with carbon such = as sulfur, phosphorus and so on but in very low quantity. Waxes are = generally not reactive and will not form covalent bonds between themselves and the = surface of whatever they're being applied to but adhere to this surface by other non-covalent forces. At the molecular level, these non-covalent forces = are relatively weak and the wax can be just rubbed off the surface of glass, = or, wiped off with a suitable low polarity solvent on a rag. Furthermore, most commercial waxes have many substances in them which = eventually oxidize to highly colored products. This is why wax "yellows". A polymer is a high molecular substance, generally much greater than = 1000-2000 amu, that is composed of one or more low molecular weight monomers that = have been covalently bonded to one another during a chemical reaction. The = monomers may be organic or inorganic, and the resulting polymer may be either = organic or inorganic. Polyethylene (used to make sandwich bags and so on) is composed of many = units of ethylene which have been reacted to form long chains and is an organic = polymer. Polystyrene, an organic polymer (foam insulation) is made of styrene. = Milk bottles are made of polypropylene, many units of propylene. Cotton is = made of cellulose, which is a polymer of sugar. Carpet, clothes, automobile tires = ... and many other products are all polymers of simpler monomers, most are = organic substances. Proteins are also polymers and have various combinations of = 20 monomers (the amino acids). Anyone who has ever painted a wall with = water-based paint has seen a monomer polymerize. Anyone who has ever used linseed oil = or tung oil to finish a piece of wood has used in-situ polymerization to = protect the wood from oxidation. There are also inorganic polymers made up of monomers of inorganic = substances. >From the properties of giraffe joos that have been described here on this = list, my best guess is that its a mixture of di-, tri-, and tetrahydroxy silanes = with a hydrophobic side group that undergoes a condensation reaction with the = silanol groups (-SiOH) on the surface of glass to form a silyl ether bond (Glass-Si-O-Si-Hydrophobic Group). A protective layer is now bonded to = the glass with the hydrophobic side groups forming the actual surface facing = the outside world. This protective layer would render the surface of the glass somewhat = waterproof though "eventually" the coating will just wash off due to hydrolysis of = the binding group. Where "eventually" can be years to decades (or more) = depending on : (1) the composition of the atmosphere, (2) The humidity of the = atmosphere, and hence the rate of hydrolysis, (3) the amount of UV light the window is exposed to, (4) how often and with what the window is washed. The silyl = ether bridges hydrolyze in the presence of acidic water (< pH 2.5) or alkaline = water (> pH 11.5) and for a window exposed to rain, especially rain that is = somewhat acidic (not exactly unknown in modern industrial society), this will = happen faster. Such a coating should still last for years if not decades ... or longer. If there are multiple hydroxysilanes on the molecule (possibly the case) = then there should be (probably is) some intramolecular polymerization as well = as intermolecular polymerization. This would render the final coating = somewhat thicker and more long-lasting (e.g. a better coating). Any coating of this nature would probably NOT discolor due to oxidation. Any coating of this nature WOULD protect the underlying glass from pitting = and corrosion. There are polymers that would adhere to the surface of the glass, but the = above is my best guess given the properties of giraffe joos as described by = Jeff. Pure glass is a remarkably unreactive substance. However, glass DOES = chemically react with a number of substances including hydrofluoric acid (aka etching cream) as well as concentrated phosphoric acid and its alkali metal salts = just to name some of the more common substances that react with glass (there = are others). Dilute phosphoric acid is one of the main ingredients of = cocacola and other similar products. Phosphates (particularly Calcium Phosphate) form = fairly strong bonds with the silanols on the surface of glass. These are the waterspots on glass. If prevented from forming these bonds, phosphates = will not form waterspots on glass and the glass won't have to be cleaned as often. = That alone would justify the use of giraffe joos on finished stained glass = pieces exposed to the outside world. Furthermore, stained glass is NOT pure glass but a mixture of glass with = various metal oxides and other ingredients. The other ingredients of glass (particularly the metal oxides) chemically react with a LOT of things. Today, 1999, there are LOTS of things floating around in the atmosphere = that shouldn't be there and many of those things-that-should-not-be-there will = "do things" to a piece of stained glass, either the glass matrix or the other ingredients of glass. Protecting a work of art (stained glass) from degradation by the atmosphere= and things in the atmosphere is, of course, purely voluntary and not strictly necessary ... but its still not a bad idea if the work of art has some = value attached. The argument that its not been done that way till now and therefore not = "time honored" is quite an antiquarian way of looking at things. This old-fashio= ned and quaint attitude may be appealing to some of you but I find it kind of = silly in a plain old ordinary everyday way. Though mankind got along fine from = time immemorial by walking everywhere, I don't imagine the proponents of this = view will give up their automobile, or their bicycles. Ditto for washing = machines, clothes dryers, food processors, microwave ovens, telephone, television, = radio ... complete the list with improvements to life in the 20th century. This giraffe joos WILL protect the stained glass, there is no doubt of = that ... and just because old great grampaw didn't use it back in 1880 doesn't mean = WE shouldn't in 1999. Louis Tiffany didn't have any carbide-coated wheels for glass cutting. = You going to stop using those too? The business aspect of this that Jeff brought up is something else .... = and I won't comment on that. [FYI, I have some patents regarding the use of similar agents to coat the = inner surface of Fused Silica Capillary Columns (FSCC) to modify the surface properties for their use in Capillary Electrophoresis (CE) and Capillary = Gas Chromatography (GC) as well as other analytical tools. In CE one modifies = the surface to enhance or diminish the zeta potential, and thereby the electroosmotic flow as well as the absortion potential for specific = analytes. In GC, one modifies the surface to diminish absorption and maximize = certain gas-solid and/or gas/liquid interactions. Fused Silica is essentially a chemically prepared and highly purified form of quartz (e.g. glass) = covered on the outside with polyimide for strength since fused silica is quite = brittle. FSCC's are basically an optical fiber with a hole in the middle. My wife = is working in this area right now . She modifies the inner surface of FSCC's to diminish electroosmotic flow, fills them with a gel, and then = uses them for DNA analysis.] While I'm at it, there is one other issue I should try to shed some light = on. The collective enterprise of mankind termed science recognizes three = fundamental states of matter : solid, liquid, gas. Any substance can exist in any of = the three states depending on the surrounding temperature and pressure. To = use a substance everyone knows : H2O can be a solid (ice), liquid (water), or = gas depending on conditions (pressure and temperature). Every substance has a unique phase diagram of temperature and pressure with which one can = accurately predict which state the substance will be in under a given set of = conditions. Phase diagrams are very useful to working scientists and commonly used. = With phase diagrams, glass is classified as a supercooled liquid. Many (most) scientists accept that a plasma [matter in a VERY VERY VERY hot state] is another state of matter. The surface of a star is a plasma. Some (very = few) say that vitreous substances (e.g. glass, though there ARE other vitreous substances) is another state of matter but this is NOT widely accepted. = [read that to mean that most scientists think classifying vitreous substances as = a separate state of matter is nonsense, which is why you will NOT find this classification in many places]. The above is how glass is defined by modern science. It is not a matter of opinion. It is not a question of artistic interpretation. How one "feels" about it, is not relevant. Glass is a supercooled liquid. Glass is not a solid. Period. Any of you can call glass a solid till hell freezes over, but that won't = make the usage correct ... and it will make you look kind of foolish to those = who do know a little bit. So ... anyway ... you've been informed. Regards to all .......... Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com=20 To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com=20 Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 12:23:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:07:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!ezcomezgo From: rrk To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Glue Question Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:13:41 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.41341.0> References: <<1999Apr21.92723.0>> Precedence: bulk Winston Winston wrote: > Yes, I use a grinder. I have tried using a couple of types of glue > to stick the pattern onto the glass I am trying to shape, but the > pattern washes off before I have finished grinding. Any suggestions > on a glue that will hold the pattern, but not be a big pain to remove > from the glass? Perhaps rubber cement? Thanks. > Buck Spray rubber cement will work fine. Be sure not to spray too much on. You won't need too much rubber cement on it to get the job done anyay. You'll have to remove the piece of paper from the glass with rubber cement thinner (a mixture of naptha and hexane). Both of these are available at any office supply. I'd use a VERY thin paper, like tracing paper, to facilitate this. Be sure to use rubber gloves as this stuff WILL get on your hands and doesn't like to come off without liberal amounts of thinner. Also, bathing your hands in naptha and hexane (rubber cement thinner) probably isn't a good idea on an everyday basis ... so use appropriate gloves. If you do this, you might want to take a small kitchen dishtub, fill it with rubber cement thinner, (after grinding) put in the pieces of glass/paper, and the paper should just float off. Recover the thinner by pouring it into a sealable container (after removing the paper ) and save it for next time to reduce costs though eventually you'll have to toss it due to increasing content of rubber cement. Make sure you do this OUTSIDE, or at least in a well ventilated room. And make CERTAIN you don't smoke or have any ignition sources around (like a hot soldering iron) since this stuff is combustible (it burns). However, make no mistake about it, this process will be an extra step, and a pain in the neck. You might consider shopping around a little more for a better water-soluble adhesive. Using hot water and a little dishwashing liquid in a kitchen washtub to remove the paper and adhesive would be just a wee-bit safer in the long run. Good luck .... Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 12:49:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:21:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; Subject: Leaving for GAS>>>>see ya' later aligator... Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:12:27 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.101227.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BE8C00.FC802DE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net id LAA17346 So long glass fans, off to sunny Florida to have some fun playing with my marbles. Two weeks of teaching and doing demo's at the GAS conference in Tampa=85and of course peeking in on all of the classes and events for an upcoming article in Glass Craftsman Magazine. Don't start any debates without me ;-) Jeff =85(Makin' Marbles an' Takin' Names)=85 Eckes I have had several requests for time and date info for GAS. Here it is: =85 GAS is from Thur. The 29th to Sunday the 2nd. I will be doing the marble demo on Saturday the 1st. There is some sort of charge for the different events but I know that there is some sort of reasonable fee for visitors, per day or such. There are also numerous events/openings/shows being presented by galleries and studios in the area that are totally free. Call/email GAS and ask them to email you some info: [[ MAPI 1.0 embedded message : 4635 in winmail.dat ]] I am teaching a marble making class at Art Glass House in Cocoa on the 25= th and 26th. Spoke to them today and was told that someone canceled due to = a car wreck and there are a couple of spaces open. Call them at: [[ MAPI 1.0 embedded message : 4636 in winmail.dat ]] Maybe I will see you at GAS - bring some work or photos=85.:-) Jeff Eckes ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BE8C00.FC802DE0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhsSAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEGgAMADgAAAM8HBAAVAA4ACAAAAAMACAEB A5AGAAgNAAAoAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAB4AcAAB AAAALQAAAExlYXZpbmcgZm9yIEdBUz4+Pj5zZWUgeWEnIGxhdGVyIGFsaWdhdG9yLi4uAAAAAAIB cQABAAAAFgAAAAG+jCHnklwVd4/3LxHSpRtERVNUAAAAAAIBHQwBAAAAIAAAAFNNVFA6R0xBU1NH SVJBRkZFQEVBUlRITElOSy5ORVQACwABDgAAAABAAAYOAIAA5CGMvgECAQoOAQAAABgAAAAAAAAA ma1ySI1hvRGjUE65vH0j08KAAAALAB8OAQAAAAMABhCcFI9BAwAHEHsDAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABT T0xPTkdHTEFTU0ZBTlMsT0ZGVE9TVU5OWUZMT1JJREFUT0hBVkVTT01FRlVOUExBWUlOR1dJVEhN 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Gildersleeve" , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; Subject: RE: GAS question Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:12:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.101233.0> References: <<19990421.082349.-77943.1.NBG3755@juno.com>> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BE8C01.004488E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net id LAA17525 Hi, Don't have much time so I'll make this short=85 I am teaching a marble making class at Art Glass House in Cocoa on the 25= th and 26th. Spoke to them today and was told that someone canceled due to = a car wreck and there are a couple of spaces open. Call them at: [[ MAPI 1.0 embedded message : 4641 in winmail.dat ]] GAS is from Thur. The 29th to Sunday the 2nd. I will be doing the marble demo on Saturday the 1st. There is some sort of charge for the different events but I know that there is some sort of reasonable fee for visitors, per day or such. There are also numerous events/openings/shows being presented by galleries and studios in the area that are totally free. Call/email GAS and ask them to email you some info: [[ MAPI 1.0 embedded message : 4642 in winmail.dat ]] OR [[ MAPI 1.0 embedded message : 4643 in winmail.dat ]] OR [[ MAPI 1.0 embedded message : 4644 in winmail.dat ]] OR AS A LAST RESORT [[ MAPI 1.0 embedded message : 4645 in winmail.dat ]] I am located in Waynesville, NC=85.west of Asheville. Not too far. We would love to see you here in the shop. Maybe I will see you at GAS - bring some work or photos=85.:-) Jeff Eckes -----Original Message----- From: Nancy B Gildersleeve [mailto:nbg3755@juno.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 11:22 AM To: glassgiraffe@earthlink.net Subject: Re: GAS question Could you please e-mail the specifics of the GAS exhibition to me? I might be able to get to it from Gainesville, FL. Is it open to the public? Also, where are you located in NC? Do you have a shop open to the public or only by appointment? My parents have relocated to Columbus (south of Hendersonville) and I'd like to stop in (and buy some giraffe-joos) when I visit them this summer. Thanks for all the info. Nancy Gildersleeve NBG3755@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. 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Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Glue Question Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:10:38 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.41038.0> Precedence: bulk WHY?????? Trace the pattern, cut it CLOSE to eliminate a LOT of grinding and then grind it to fit.............. I glue NONE of my pattern pieces! Look at some of the pieces in a detailed shade, small aren't they? With care they can be traced by holding them on the glass by hand, (errr fingertip). enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com Elaine and Howard best lamps on the "net": http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 13:35:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:44:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!charles_spitzer From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Business approaches Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:40:02 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990421114002.0193f3a0@atlas2.az.stratus.com> References: <<199904211715.KAA20437@oceanus.island.net>> Precedence: bulk At 10:15 AM 4/21/99 -0700, you wrote: >I'm wondering if this whole thread may have another basis...what I'm >noticing is that the studios who HAVE established themselves and have more >than enough work aren't keen on this thread. However there's lots of us out >there that are still developing their presence, and I'm wondering if hunger >might cause a person to look at more innovative ideas. > >I know I'm definitely in the "developing a presence" category and am working >the system any way I can to get my name out there and keep it in people's >awareness. Perhaps in 5 years I'll have enough people beating a path to my >door, but for now...a lot of my time is spent in marketing. Some days I >wonder if I actually DO glass or just market. > >Wondering if anyone has ever donated a s.g. panel for a prize to a national >level golf tournament or similar event held in their community, and whether >it generated any orders? i donated a large, 3d sailboat to my local sailing club for them to give away as the top prize in the arizona state championships a couple of years ago. approximately 200 people in attendance. received 1 order for a copy of it in a different color. no other commisions. results: not worth my time to repeat. >C. > >Carol Swann >Synergy Glass & Creative >http://www.igga.org/synergy >seaspray@island.net regards, charlie phx, az -- Charles Spitzer Stratus Computer, Inc Speaking from Stratus, not for Stratus, Ascend, or Lucent ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 13:57:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:54:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: "Dani Greer" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: [Fwd) RE: preplanned repairs? Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:44:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.104442.0> References: <<199904210247_MC2-72C7-79A0@compuserve.com>> Precedence: bulk Dani, Don't really have time to get into this with you right now as I am getting ready to leave for gas....BUT I will provide you with all kinds of study data and such that you need to rest your mind that I am not "...ripping people off..." Actually I resent that. My interest is in growing this industry with innovative products/services and ideas. If you don't believe me ask my accountant. What are your motivations in 'disavowing' any utility in a new product or idea? I will try to find some of the literature on the degradation of glass in inner city environments that I have read and forward it to you when I get back. Jeff Eckes -----Original Message----- From: Dani Greer [mailto:GreerStudios@compuserve.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 2:47 AM To: Jeff Eckes Cc: [unknown] Subject: RE: [Fwd) RE: preplanned repairs? Message text written by "Jeff Eckes" >Really Albert, low blow here. You know better.< Well, if Albert misunderstood, Jeff, so did I and I think most of the list would agree that we're two of the more level-headed in the group. I'm not clear on your motivation here either... except your desire to make money. Nothing wrong with that unless your ripping off the public. Let me ask you this - why do you believe a stained glass window requires maintenance every three to four years, when history proves that they will do just fine left alone for many many more years? Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 15:47:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:11:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Glue Question Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:10:38 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.41038.0> Precedence: bulk WHY?????? Trace the pattern, cut it CLOSE to eliminate a LOT of grinding and then grind it to fit.............. I glue NONE of my pattern pieces! Look at some of the pieces in a detailed shade, small aren't they? With care they can be traced by holding them on the glass by hand, (errr fingertip). enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com Elaine and Howard best lamps on the "net": http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 15:49:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:44:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!charles_spitzer From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Business approaches Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:40:02 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990421114002.0193f3a0@atlas2.az.stratus.com> References: <<199904211715.KAA20437@oceanus.island.net>> Precedence: bulk At 10:15 AM 4/21/99 -0700, you wrote: >I'm wondering if this whole thread may have another basis...what I'm >noticing is that the studios who HAVE established themselves and have more >than enough work aren't keen on this thread. However there's lots of us out >there that are still developing their presence, and I'm wondering if hunger >might cause a person to look at more innovative ideas. > >I know I'm definitely in the "developing a presence" category and am working >the system any way I can to get my name out there and keep it in people's >awareness. Perhaps in 5 years I'll have enough people beating a path to my >door, but for now...a lot of my time is spent in marketing. Some days I >wonder if I actually DO glass or just market. > >Wondering if anyone has ever donated a s.g. panel for a prize to a national >level golf tournament or similar event held in their community, and whether >it generated any orders? i donated a large, 3d sailboat to my local sailing club for them to give away as the top prize in the arizona state championships a couple of years ago. approximately 200 people in attendance. received 1 order for a copy of it in a different color. no other commisions. results: not worth my time to repeat. >C. > >Carol Swann >Synergy Glass & Creative >http://www.igga.org/synergy >seaspray@island.net regards, charlie phx, az -- Charles Spitzer Stratus Computer, Inc Speaking from Stratus, not for Stratus, Ascend, or Lucent ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 16:09:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:54:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!glassgiraffe From: "Jeff Eckes" To: "Dani Greer" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: [Fwd) RE: preplanned repairs? Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:44:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.104442.0> References: <<199904210247_MC2-72C7-79A0@compuserve.com>> Precedence: bulk Dani, Don't really have time to get into this with you right now as I am getting ready to leave for gas....BUT I will provide you with all kinds of study data and such that you need to rest your mind that I am not "...ripping people off..." Actually I resent that. My interest is in growing this industry with innovative products/services and ideas. If you don't believe me ask my accountant. What are your motivations in 'disavowing' any utility in a new product or idea? I will try to find some of the literature on the degradation of glass in inner city environments that I have read and forward it to you when I get back. Jeff Eckes -----Original Message----- From: Dani Greer [mailto:GreerStudios@compuserve.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 2:47 AM To: Jeff Eckes Cc: [unknown] Subject: RE: [Fwd) RE: preplanned repairs? Message text written by "Jeff Eckes" >Really Albert, low blow here. You know better.< Well, if Albert misunderstood, Jeff, so did I and I think most of the list would agree that we're two of the more level-headed in the group. I'm not clear on your motivation here either... except your desire to make money. Nothing wrong with that unless your ripping off the public. Let me ask you this - why do you believe a stained glass window requires maintenance every three to four years, when history proves that they will do just fine left alone for many many more years? Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 16:10:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:20:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Window treatments (was newbie question) Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:26:20 +0000 Message-ID: <199904211918.PAA08441@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > I also think that maybe he has a point about the "acid rain". Our > environment isn't the same as it was many years ago and in time > perhaps the traditional method of finishing won't hold up..... Well, American-made glass is much "harder" than European stained glass, which is partly why they've had such problems with environmental and atmospheric attack on their windows and mostly why atmospheric attack on American stained glass hasn't been such a big problem and isn't likely to be. Oh, there've been some instances of devitrification, where parts of windows just turn to sand- or gravel-sized pieces, but that's a problem in the manufacture and is rare and isolated. To once again cite Sloan's "Conservation of Stained Glass": This is the basis of the difference in approach between European stained glass conservation, which is naturally more concerned with the preservation of medieval glass, and American stained glass conservation, which is concerned primarily with nineteenth- and twentieth-century stained glass windows. In medieval window conservation, the deterioration of the glass itself as a result of atmospheric attack is a very serious issue that is caused by the inferior durability of the medieval potash glasses. In nineteenth-century and later windows, whether they are European or American, the glass used is soda-lime glass, not potash glass, and so it is not generally susceptible to atmospheric attack. In addition, such atmospheric attack appears to require centuries of exposure, which our windows have not had. Furthermore (and a little further on), she discusses attack by acid rain in particular: However, it is not yet clear whether acid rain accelerates the deterioration of nineteenth-century glass, although it seems to have an adverse effect on medieval glass. The hardness and durability of soda-lime glasses makes them generally impervious to attack by dilute acids (except, of course, hydrofluoric acid, used to etch glass) that are in contact with the glass for only short periods of time, such as during a rain storm. There seems to be little evidence to suggest that the presence of atmospheric acids in rain water accelerates the deterioration caused by water alone when the rain is allowed to evaporate. In a closed environment over a long period of time, however, such as an unventilated protective glazing system, some acids will etch glass. These include acetic acid, given off by some silicones during the curing process, and tannic acid, emitted by wet wood. Any protective glazing system should allow the circulation of air to prevent the build-up of acids or moisture. Which is, of course, why protective glazing systems, when they're absolutely required (vandalism) at all, must allow for the movement of air through the system to carry off condensation. Sloan calls water the "universal solvent." Eventually, it'll dissolve everything. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 16:13:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:22:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" Subject: Re: Sal Amoniac Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:22:04 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.5224.0> Precedence: bulk >>I have a question for you. Do many of you out there use Sal Amoniac when soldering? ( I have no idea if I'm spelling that correctly ) I have used it for several years, but have noticed that lately, when I use it, I develop a mind-bending headache that is impervious to ibuprofin and lasts for about a day. After a full day of soldering, I can barely get out of bed. << Blake, You are killing yourself. Sounds like an annurism(sp). Get to a doctor and follow his/her advice......or else!!!!! Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 16:28:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:51:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Wed Apr 21 12:51:49 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.102949.0> Precedence: bulk Fair Warning: I am about to climb up on my soapbox. If you do not wish to read my ramblings press delete now!!! You have been warned. What I'm waiting to hear is "Sarah Brady and Friends" explain how Brady II and their other programs would have prevented all this. After all how much damage could two kids have done with only homemade bombs and hand grenades. It's not like they could have planted the explosive, stood back and watched the fun? The last count was 30 booby traps found by the bomb squad wasn't it? The basic problem is that children have gotten out of control. At 17 I knew how to make black powder and nitroglycerin (part of my education from the New York City Public Schools). Putting together a pipe bomb or other explosive devise is simple after you make the explosive. We not only made a couple of bombs but we set them off. We weren't out to cause damage just make a big boom. The very idea of using our "toy" on property, much less people, was inconceivable to us. Today's children seem to think that going on a rampage is not only permissible but fun. What has changed in the past few decades to give them this attitude. I've seen it happen and can think of enough possibilities to make us all sick. Not to mention overload the mail severs. (Does anyone remember what inspired the song "I Don't Like Mondays" by the Boomtown Rats.) What frightens me just as much is the apathetic treatment of these incidents from society as a whole. How many adults today are thinking "Another school shooting. How terrible." And then go on with their day. How many students will be forced to sit through the same assembly for the fifth time: "A terrible thing happened at (insert location here)..." All because our system is too scared to face the real issue or address the real politically incorrect problem. A coworker of mine is from Switzerland. She was stunned to hear what happened and could not believe this is the fifth time in under two years. For over half a century the Swiss have been an armed society and nothing like this has happened. Children are taught to use firearms before they enter schools; government issued fully automatic weapons are found in almost every home in the nation; most homes have personal hunting and shooting rifles and pistols as well; but the idea of doing what those two boys did in Littleton Colorado is not to be found or tolerated anywhere in country. Fifteen or sixteen victims of the latest tragedy and all our politicians can do is take their usual stand on the usual issues. It would be nice if some of them had the courage to tell Handgun Control, the NRA and the rest of the world that the real issue is our children and that is what's important. Getting off my soapbox now. Opinions may be sent directly to vmodiano@ctronsoft.com . I apologize in advance to anyone who is offended by my sending this to the group but Sparks' husbands comment just pushed a button. Vic M. From: Witchdoc3@aol.com [mailto:Witchdoc3@aol.com] (My other half's reaction was also interesting: "Let's see Charlton Heston try to talk his way outta this one.") Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 16:29:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:52:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!tifstyorig From: Diane W Manchester To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Window treatments (chemistry lesson) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:51:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.115139.0> Precedence: bulk Bob went on to say: "Now to get things correct about the chemistry of all this." (and on he went) Whew........it's like reading a debate with Einstein, DiVinci, Plato, Michelangelo and Steven Speilberg as the characters. (I'll let you figure out who is who) This is a fascinating group. I mean that with all sincerity. We have some great minds in this group. And with Bob's chemistry post, I feel like I'm taking an at-home university study. Thanks, Bob! I enjoyed the lesson. I usually just pour the stuff on and know it works. But now I appreciate what it's doing. Diane Manchester ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 16:32:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:14:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Cindy Pesonen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: ArtWalk'99 Kamloops Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:11:47 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.121147.0> Precedence: bulk Congratulations, Cindy - Nothing like a good art showing' to drum up business! Now just knock 'em dead with some = dynamite work. Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 16:45:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:13:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:seaspray@island.net" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: Business approaches (was Window treatments (was newbie question) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:11:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.121153.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:seaspray@island.net >Wondering if anyone has ever donated a s.g. panel for a prize to a national level golf tournament or similar event held in their community, and wheth= er it generated any orders? = < About six to eight times a year.... either a panel or a gift certificate valued at $500. It's good for name recognition, gets your name in the paper every now and then, makes you a good guy with civic leaders. I've gotten two or = three orders out of a few dozen donations.... it's hard to measure this type of "advertising". I've now reached a point that the "cause" has to be a bit closer to my = heart than it has been in the past. My favorite cause this year is the Humane Society FurrBall... Cough it up for the Humane Society! It really appeals to my = warped sense of humor. Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 16:46:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:41:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: erols.com!deethom From: Dee Thompson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Business approaches Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:28:55 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990421172851.006e6e08@pop.erols.com> Precedence: bulk Wondering if anyone has ever donated a s.g. panel for a prize to a national >level golf tournament or similar event held in their community, and whether >it generated any orders? I donated a panel to a fundraiser for an animal sanctuary...simply because I couldn't give money and liked the cause. It sold at the silent auction and I got a comission...I felt like a winner times two! Dee ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 16:49:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:41:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Glue Question Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:24:38 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr21.212438.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/21/99 3:09:32 PM, weaver51@teleport.com writes: >Look at some of the pieces in a detailed shade, small aren't they? >With care they can be traced by holding them on the glass by hand, (errr >fingertip). But not if you've got shaky hands or are occasionally subject to "uncoordination attacks." Sometimes I can barely even hold a big pattern piece in one place long enough to trace around it accurately. Pass the glue, please........ :-\ Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 17:10:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:43:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Photographing glass Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:42:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.134219.0> Precedence: bulk It seems that the way to make money at crafts is to photograph them! Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 17:22:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:10:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Jeff Eckes" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: [Fwd) RE: preplanned repairs? Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:59:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.125930.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Jeff Eckes" > I will provide you with all kinds of study data and such that you need to= rest your mind < Thanks, Jeff.... send it to Julie Sloan, would you? She's the expert and I pay attention to what she has to say. Why? Because she knows more about conservation than I do and conservation = is indeed an issue at this studio. I feel that = putting things to the test and paying attention to people who have proven themselves more knowledgeable than I am is, well, just the = smart thing to do. Also, my time is getting a bit tight as well. I'm going to have to back off from bungi for a while and get back to work... plus I have several articles to get to Albert for the next Common Ground: Glass edition, deadline being the end of April. (That's a = hint to anyone else out there who's on = deadline, too!) Cheers everyone! Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 17:26:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:11:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: gbe.com!Laura.Dawson From: "Laura L Dawson" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Giraffe Joos Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:29:08 -0500 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk For those of you who haven't tried it, I like it over Kem Pro (or whatever = it's called) which is what I always used, because it's easier to get a = nice polished look on my finished pieces without residue. =20 Laura ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 17:41:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:13:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Jeff Eckes" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: [Fwd) RE: preplanned repairs? Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:59:32 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.125932.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Jeff Eckes" >What are your motivations in 'disavowing' any utility in a new product o= r idea?< I'm always trying to find ways to simplify my life, not complicate it. Why in heavens name would I want to use something that I have to keep going back to the customer with?? I'd have to hire someone to do that and that would complicate my life even more. As far as repeat sales.... if they like my work and want more, they come back to me. So do their friends and neighbors. Have even had folks call us from the signature on the stained = glass window itself. And, of course, I send folks thank you notes as well as invites to our shows.... Seems to work for us.... I spend more time referring = work to other studios than trying to drum up more business.... my competitors like me, too! Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 17:44:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:27:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass From: "K See" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:47:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.134714.0> References: <<1999Apr21.152212.0>> Precedence: bulk I agree and would say more but this is not the forum. K See Art is the only way to run away without leaving home. Twyla Tharp ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 11:22 AM Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING | | In a message dated 4/20/99 11:30:47 PM, andor@ilnk.com writes: | | >kids gunning down groups of people. KIDS!!!! | | Yeah........ Somehow it wasn't even surprising. Shocking, yes, always, but | not surprising. And I shocked myself by my reaction, a | more-disgusted-than-anything "Students, *again*?" (My other half's reaction | was also interesting: "Let's see Charlton Heston try to talk his way outta | this one.") | | | Sparks | | ---- | For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com | To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com | Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass | ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 17:48:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:27:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass From: "K See" To: "Cindy Pesonen" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: ArtWalk'99 Kamloops Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:07:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.1479.0> References: <> Precedence: bulk Cindy that's fantastic! Wow you really had a lot happening. What a great opportunity!! Way to go! K See Art is the only way to run away without leaving home. Twyla Tharp ----- Original Message ----- From: Cindy Pesonen To: Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 10:38 AM Subject: ArtWalk'99 Kamloops | Hi Guys! | Kinda on cloud 9 here and I'd like to share this with you. | The Art Council of Kamloops, (where I have just moved to, pop. 100,000) has | just *kicked off* ArtWalk'99, a partnership between Kamloops Arts and | business communities. | 60 artists have their *own* location to exhibit their art in different | businesses through out the city. This runs Apr. 19th to May 8th. | My location given to me was where the *kickoff* reception was to be (talk | about being kinda nervous) and it was only my work being shown. | The evening started with networking about me:) I was introduced to members | of the Art council, big wigs of Kamloops and other artists....(for a little | country mouse like myself I was grinning from ear to ear!) This lasted for | an hour and then the ceremonies started and speeches were made (luckliy I | was not asked, I don't think I could have done it) and ribbon cutting. | Anyhow that lasted an hour and the last hour was more networking, picture | taking (2 newpapers have my mug shot talking to the Art Council and I get a | private interview with another one). | Networking was fabulous and I sold my dragon plate *twice* (nothing is | supposed to be marked for sale this is an exhibit only), have a window | commisson in the future and 3 outlets interested in my work. | All I can say is WOW and YIPEE! | Off to being humble again:) | Cindy | | ---- | For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com | To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com | Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass | ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 17:49:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:28:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass From: "K See" To: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Sal Amoniac Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:38:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.133826.0> References: <<3.0.1.32.19990421124756.00692b14@popd.ipa.net>> Precedence: bulk I only use it when tip absolutely needs it and ten I wear my respirator. When I do clean my tip I add a drop of flux and go to town on it. Rubbing hard on all sides of tip. I clean my tip when soldering just by swiping on sponge. The only time it gets really bad is when I've left the iron on too long without using it. KSee Art is the only way to run away without leaving home. Twyla Tharp ----- Original Message ----- From: Blake, Wayne, & Susan To: Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 1:47 PM Subject: Sal Amoniac | Hi Bungians. | | I have a question for you. | Do many of you out there use Sal Amoniac when soldering? | ( I have no idea if I'm spelling that correctly ) | | I have used it for several years, but have noticed that lately, when I use | it, I develop a mind-bending headache that is impervious to ibuprofin and | lasts for about a day. After a full day of soldering, I can barely get out | of bed. | | Of course, I know that I need to work on better ventilation. I had put it | off because I really didn't do much soldering.... but with my booth at the | fair coming up, I've soldered alot more. | | I was teaching a friend last night, and was only in the room with it for | about 5 minutes, and I've had a killer headache ever since. | | Ok, here's the actual question(s).... | | Does anyone else have this same problem with the stuff? | | Is there something else that I can use to de-gunk my iron, that won't leave | me near-comatose? | | Does it sound as if I've just reached my lead limit and my head is on the | verge of exploding? | | | I am buying a box fan today and am going to unstick the window so that I | can put the fan in it, and hopefully sweep all fumes out. But if there IS | an alternative to Sal Amoniac, I'm READY for it!! | | Thanks! | Blake | :-) | | | | ---- | For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com | To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com | Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass | ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 18:18:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:25:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: nettally.com!gypsy2 From: "Sandy Gustafson" To: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" , Subject: Re: Sal Amoniac Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:15:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.151531.0> References: <<3.0.1.32.19990421124756.00692b14@popd.ipa.net>> Precedence: bulk Hi, I do not have the problem that you have with the SA, but I think that you should put the box fan not in the window, but behind you to blow the fumes out of the window. Just a suggestion. Sandy in FL ----- Original Message ----- From: Blake, Wayne, & Susan To: Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 1:47 PM Subject: Sal Amoniac > Hi Bungians. > > I have a question for you. > Do many of you out there use Sal Amoniac when soldering? > ( I have no idea if I'm spelling that correctly ) > > I have used it for several years, but have noticed that lately, when I use > it, I develop a mind-bending headache that is impervious to ibuprofin and > lasts for about a day. After a full day of soldering, I can barely get out > of bed. > > Of course, I know that I need to work on better ventilation. I had put it > off because I really didn't do much soldering.... but with my booth at the > fair coming up, I've soldered alot more. > > I was teaching a friend last night, and was only in the room with it for > about 5 minutes, and I've had a killer headache ever since. > > Ok, here's the actual question(s).... > > Does anyone else have this same problem with the stuff? > > Is there something else that I can use to de-gunk my iron, that won't leave > me near-comatose? > > Does it sound as if I've just reached my lead limit and my head is on the > verge of exploding? > > > I am buying a box fan today and am going to unstick the window so that I > can put the fan in it, and hopefully sweep all fumes out. But if there IS > an alternative to Sal Amoniac, I'm READY for it!! > > Thanks! > Blake > :-) > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 18:18:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:26:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mpx.com.au!ktsplash From: "ktsplash" To: "Bungi List" Subject: Re: Castings Link Take 2 Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:26:50 +1000 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.192650.0> Precedence: bulk Tim, thanks for the suggestions. I had already ticked the plain text button and I'll try using Address Book rather than reply. Although, since the Castings message I sent was a new one, that couldn't have been what happened here. ?!~!? Katie. (who is starting to believe in the Lawnmower Man, especially since her Compaq makes a habit of spontaneously turning on when noone is within metres of it.) -----Original Message----- From: Tim Atwood To: ktsplash ; Bungi List Date: Wednesday, 21 April 1999 13:47 Subject: Re: Castings Link Take 2 >Usually happens when you send something HTML (MIME) format rather than plain >text. This seems to happen sometimes when doing a "reply all" to bungi >and/or if you hand type the bungi address. I seem to have eliminated it in >my own messages by the following (MS Outlook Express, but I guess most other >email clients have similar functions). > >1. Define bungi in my address book with the "Send Plain Text Only" box >checked. > >2. Always send bungi mail using the address from my address book rather than >doing a reply or reply all. > >If I am truly replying, I will do a reply to get the "Re:" subject and any >quotes I need, but then I delete the address and re-select bungi from my >address book. > >-----Original Message----- >From: ktsplash >To: Bungi List >Date: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 6:38 PM >Subject: Castings Link Take 2 > > >.... >>Thought I was goin nuts. I've noticed I have also receive messages from >>Bungi that are blank except for subject line. Anyone tell me what's doing >>this? >... > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 18:23:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:27:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Sal Amoniac Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:22:23 -0400 Message-ID: <199904212323.TAA10893@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 4/21/99 1:47 PM Blake, Wayne, & Susan gecko@ipa.net Blake, There is a product available from Warner-Crivellaro called "Multicore tip tinner" . It is a tiny little round container that you rub your iron into to clean. It does a good job, it smells terrible, and is easier to use than the Sal Ammoniac (also, of course, more expensive, it's imported). But worth it IMO. Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 18:50:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:54:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netrax.net!rejones From: Bob Jones To: daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:43:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.154357.0> References: <<1999Apr22.102949.0>> Precedence: bulk In Maryland, required 3rd grade curriculum........ If Mommy or Daddy spank you come tell us that they have abused you and we will lock 'em up. So 3rd graders run around yelling child abuse because mom or Dad whoop up on their ass after they shot up their local school. So no discipline and then this. We have reaped what we have sowed. I quess we should all shut up again. No one wants to complain about the way the country is heading until an incident like this happens. Funny thing is you we will forget about this in a month or so. How many of you realized that this week marked the 4 year anniversary of the Okla. city bombing. I wonder if it was a coincidence that yesterday was Hitler's birthday and these two demented litle wastes of human flesh were neo-nazis. Sorry, I just get fed up. I believe the Constitution is getting in the way of common sense and rational thought. Nest thing you know someone will claim that the two pukes that did this had some Constitutional right to free speech and were just exercising that right in their own way and should be worshiped for doing so. Where is the ACLU when you need it. What this country needs right now is public executions that all teenages have to attend. Once again, sorry Now back to our regularly scheduled programing. Bob daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano wrote: > Fair Warning: I am about to climb up on my soapbox. If you do not wish to > read my ramblings press delete now!!! > You have been warned. > > What I'm waiting to hear is "Sarah Brady and Friends" explain how Brady II > and their other programs would have prevented all this. After all how much > damage could two kids have done with only homemade bombs and hand grenades. > It's not like they could have planted the explosive, stood back and watched > the fun? > > The last count was 30 booby traps found by the bomb squad wasn't it? > > The basic problem is that children have gotten out of control. At 17 I knew > how to make black powder and nitroglycerin (part of my education from the > New York City Public Schools). Putting together a pipe bomb or other > explosive devise is simple after you make the explosive. We not only made a > couple of bombs but we set them off. We weren't out to cause damage just > make a big boom. The very idea of using our "toy" on property, much less > people, was inconceivable to us. > > Today's children seem to think that going on a rampage is not only > permissible but fun. What has changed in the past few decades to give them > this attitude. I've seen it happen and can think of enough possibilities to > make us all sick. Not to mention overload the mail severs. (Does anyone > remember what inspired the song "I Don't Like Mondays" by the Boomtown > Rats.) > > What frightens me just as much is the apathetic treatment of these incidents > from society as a whole. How many adults today are thinking "Another school > shooting. How terrible." And then go on with their day. How many students > will be forced to sit through the same assembly for the fifth time: "A > terrible thing happened at (insert location here)..." All because our system > is too scared to face the real issue or address the real politically > incorrect problem. > > A coworker of mine is from Switzerland. She was stunned to hear what > happened and could not believe this is the fifth time in under two years. > For over half a century the Swiss have been an armed society and nothing > like this has happened. Children are taught to use firearms before they > enter schools; government issued fully automatic weapons are found in almost > every home in the nation; most homes have personal hunting and shooting > rifles and pistols as well; but the idea of doing what those two boys did in > Littleton Colorado is not to be found or tolerated anywhere in country. > > Fifteen or sixteen victims of the latest tragedy and all our politicians can > do is take their usual stand on the usual issues. It would be nice if some > of them had the courage to tell Handgun Control, the NRA and the rest of the > world that the real issue is our children and that is what's important. > > Getting off my soapbox now. > Opinions may be sent directly to vmodiano@ctronsoft.com > . > > I apologize in advance to anyone who is offended by my sending this to the > group but Sparks' husbands comment just pushed a button. > > Vic M. > > From: Witchdoc3@aol.com [mailto:Witchdoc3@aol.com] > (My other half's reaction > was also interesting: "Let's see Charlton Heston try to talk > his way outta > this one.") > > Sparks > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 18:52:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:58:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:05:31 +0000 Message-ID: <199904212357.TAA16474@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > The basic problem is that children have gotten out of control. I think it's their parents who've gotten out of control. A mild (but personal) example: My son's been being harrassed at school ever since last Fall when he first entered it as a new student. A group of the usual sort of bullies calling him "homo" and such (well, he *does dress funny and those paisley pants are "out there") and he'd respond by blowing them kisses and otherwise smarting off. When that didn't stop them, I told him to just ignore them. That made it worse and finally they jumped him after school downtown twice in as many months, punched him in the nose. The cops were called, they were put on notice and they just continued so he filed complaints for assault or assult and battery (depending) and we went to court yesterday. I couldn't believe my ears when the boys' parents not only defended them, but (in court) called my son a "homo" and a "nigger," argued with the judge over the definition of "assault" versus "battery" versus "threat." (With the *judge yet!) After the boys had been bound over for trial (and one had arrived with a probation officer because he was already in jail on another charge), the parents continued their high-minded conversation and gentle chatter outside in front of the courthouse. That is they elaborated on their feeling toward me that "homos" should be beaten up. The boys are 15 and 16. What a swell bunch of role models. And I suspect the boys in Colorado had just as good a set of role models in their parents. Just a hunch. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 19:20:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:59:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!charles_spitzer From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: NG-SHOOTING Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:55:47 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990421165547.01954710@atlas2.az.stratus.com> References: <<"1999Apr22.102949.0*"@MHS>> Precedence: bulk hear hear. in phoenix, we have a concealed handgun law that allows, after some 50 hours of training, one to carry, along with a law that says someone can carry if it's not concealed. we also have a surprisingly low rate of bank robberies. could someone, trained in firearm use, have ended yesterday's problem more quickly? another data point: about 5 weeks ago, a phoenix high school student, after seeing the movie 'october sky' brought in a homemade rocket into school. it being found (gee, that looks awfully like a pipe bomb, said the principal) he was expelled. after national and international uproar by the media, he was reinstated in school just yesterday. anyone note the similarities between the 2 problems? another odd note: my wife is an 7-8th grade journalism teacher. her topic for the last week is 'violence in the media-it's impact on today's society'. she said that today, it was like it never happened. the kids are so desensitized to hearing about this kind of occurrance, that it doesn't bother them. regards, charlie phx, az At 12:51 PM 4/21/99 -0700, you wrote: >Fair Warning: I am about to climb up on my soapbox. If you do not wish to >read my ramblings press delete now!!! >You have been warned. > >What I'm waiting to hear is "Sarah Brady and Friends" explain how Brady II >and their other programs would have prevented all this. After all how much >damage could two kids have done with only homemade bombs and hand grenades. >It's not like they could have planted the explosive, stood back and watched >the fun? > >The last count was 30 booby traps found by the bomb squad wasn't it? > >The basic problem is that children have gotten out of control. At 17 I knew >how to make black powder and nitroglycerin (part of my education from the >New York City Public Schools). Putting together a pipe bomb or other >explosive devise is simple after you make the explosive. We not only made a >couple of bombs but we set them off. We weren't out to cause damage just >make a big boom. The very idea of using our "toy" on property, much less >people, was inconceivable to us. > >Today's children seem to think that going on a rampage is not only >permissible but fun. What has changed in the past few decades to give them >this attitude. I've seen it happen and can think of enough possibilities to >make us all sick. Not to mention overload the mail severs. (Does anyone >remember what inspired the song "I Don't Like Mondays" by the Boomtown >Rats.) > >What frightens me just as much is the apathetic treatment of these incidents >from society as a whole. How many adults today are thinking "Another school >shooting. How terrible." And then go on with their day. How many students >will be forced to sit through the same assembly for the fifth time: "A >terrible thing happened at (insert location here)..." All because our system >is too scared to face the real issue or address the real politically >incorrect problem. > >A coworker of mine is from Switzerland. She was stunned to hear what >happened and could not believe this is the fifth time in under two years. >For over half a century the Swiss have been an armed society and nothing >like this has happened. Children are taught to use firearms before they >enter schools; government issued fully automatic weapons are found in almost >every home in the nation; most homes have personal hunting and shooting >rifles and pistols as well; but the idea of doing what those two boys did in >Littleton Colorado is not to be found or tolerated anywhere in country. > >Fifteen or sixteen victims of the latest tragedy and all our politicians can >do is take their usual stand on the usual issues. It would be nice if some >of them had the courage to tell Handgun Control, the NRA and the rest of the >world that the real issue is our children and that is what's important. > >Getting off my soapbox now. >Opinions may be sent directly to vmodiano@ctronsoft.com > . > >I apologize in advance to anyone who is offended by my sending this to the >group but Sparks' husbands comment just pushed a button. > >Vic M. > > From: Witchdoc3@aol.com [mailto:Witchdoc3@aol.com] > (My other half's reaction > was also interesting: "Let's see Charlton Heston try to talk >his way outta > this one.") > > Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 19:21:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:40:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: level headed Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:40:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.164010.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Susan Perchelli >Well, if Albert misunderstood, Jeff, so did I and I think most of the list would agree that we're two of the more level-headed in the group. = ******************************** Really? So where does that put all the rest of us? < I think I'm at a 35 degree angle right now, after doing 3 leaded panels today. I'm hoping to go the full 90 degrees after a couple of glasses of wine! Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 19:43:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:42:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Sal Amoniac Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:40:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.164023.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" >Do many of you out there use Sal Amoniac when soldering?< Well, I use it once in a blue moon to re-tin the tip of my soldering iron. But other than that occassional trip to the sal amoniac block, I do not use it. How are you using it? How frequently are you using it? Do you clean your iron any other way? I clean my iron by briefly dipping it in Nokorode paste flux, then wiping the iron's tip on a dampened sponge. This type of cleaning I use all the time. The sal amoniac only comes up to the soldering desk when I need to re-tin the iron. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 19:53:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:26:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: net-magic.net!tcn From: tcn@net-magic.net (Boatwright, Walter) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: sad times Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:37:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.173746.0> Organization: The Glass Safari Precedence: bulk Hi Guys.. Although its is a very sad time for Rhonda and I, we must face reality that our dream of a retail and studio is not to be.. After five years ( 3 in retail) working 12 to 14 hrs per day ( two jobs each) we cannot physicaly contine. Its with a heavy heart that we came to this decision of closing..WE ARE truly sorry to fail our good customers.. On May 7th and 8th. we will have all chemicals and tools at 50% off.. Books 40% and Glass 40% no glass will be cut at this time... Thanks to all Walter and Rhonda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 20:25:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:03:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ghostman.com!candy From: "Candy Thurman" To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Business approaches (was Window treatments (was newbie question) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 99 19:02:45 Message-ID: <199904220203.UAA19907@mantis.privatei.com> Precedence: bulk Let's see, one year I donated a $300 lamp (hanging, with hardware) to the local chapter of the Humane Society (Georgia)... they raffled it.. sold $50 worth of tickets... no orders generated.. Another year, I donated a $400 window in wood frame to the local (again Georgia) YMCA auction... they sold it for $100... no orders generated... After a move to Colorado, I participated in the Channel 6 auction for 3 yrs... this generated some extra cash, enough overage to pay for the materials I had donated, but only an extra $30 after all was said and done.. and the people were more demanding about their handmade custom item (what? I can't pick it up when I get there? But I told you what colors I wanted!)... so I no longer do that either.. Now I just use my time to make what I want when I want.. my karma may be a little less but I don't feel so harried.. Candy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 20:33:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:05:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ghostman.com!candy From: "Candy Thurman" To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Business approaches Date: Wed, 21 Apr 99 19:04:04 Message-ID: <199904220205.UAA19942@mantis.privatei.com> Precedence: bulk Oh yeah, I forgot the diving window.. that one didn't generate any sales either, though I got lots of compliments! I did it again the next year, with the same results.. All in Georgia.. Candy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 20:58:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:01:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Albert Lewis" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:58:52 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.185852.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Albert Lewis" > What a swell bunch of role models. And I suspect the boys in Colorado = had just as good a set of role models in their parents. Just a hunch. < Or no role models because their parents are too busy with their careers. We live in a society that is in a relentless state of denial. What's the = alternative - taking responsibility, accepting the punishment. Ha! Changing even?! Double Ha! Sadly, it'll take more crises than this one before we move out of our comfort zones. Back to work! Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 21:13:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:01:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Dayle" , Subject: Re: Window treatments (was newbie question) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:48:22 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.124822.0> Precedence: bulk Hello Everyone, I for one was one of the ones that asked for additional information on "Joos". I wanted to know what it was, how it might help, what the price was, and where I could get some, and I found out what I set out to find out. Personally, I am open to new ideas that might be of help in working with glass, or helping to protect it (perhaps I should or ought to say, to protect the solder and patina, since I do so far mainly copper foil). I was dismayed that what I call the "Old School" went on the defense or possibly offence, just because someone was offering something new, that had not passed the "Old School Seal Of Approval" Testing Regime. Perhaps now, with the offers by some that are sought after for their advice and experience, to test, the product, maybe it might become like another product that I have heard about in this list. I wonder what them ol'timers said, when some newcomer started to use that stove black (Zebo/Zebrite) on their lead to make it look better,,, And now, there are ol'timers that swear by the stuff,,, Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: Dayle To: glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 11:21 AM Subject: Re: Window treatments (was newbie question) |It is my understanding that inquiries into Jeff's product "giraffe joos" |were made by someone on this list...he didn't approach the list in an |effort to advertise. | |I think it's great that he has responded to inquiries and is giving list |members another perspective on "finishing". Some may feel it has no |application for traditional lead came but not everyone works in lead |came either. I'm always interested in hearing how others finish their |work and am grateful for Jeff's contributions. Isn't that what this |forum is all about anyway? | |I also think that maybe he has a point about the "acid rain". Our |environment isn't the same as it was many years ago and in time perhaps |the traditional method of finishing won't hold up..... that's something |to think about. | |We should always at least be open to new methods before blatantly |disregarding them. Wonder how much opposition L. C. Tiffany encountered |with his new copper foil method? | |I don't think it's fair to say Jeff's motives are to "rip people off", |maybe his inquiring mind likes to explore new possibilities.... he |seems to have alot of energy and I doubt if it's anything to feel |threatened over. Just my opinion. |Dayle | |ps Always thought I was level-headed, guess you learn something new |everyday! | |Dani Greer wrote: | |> Message text written by "Albert Lewis" |> >Of course, people *will try to sell stuff to use ... and say that = |> |> it's necessary, not that anyone here's trying to sell stuff. |> < |> |> Very nicely said, Albert. As always, I appreciate your |> tact and sensitivity. And it's true, over the years most = |> |> bungians have avoided using this forum to sell personal |> stuff.... not that anyone minds a quick mention. But, = |> |> I don't believe this is the place for ongoing informercials. |> All IMPO of course. |> |> Best, = |> |> Dani Greer |> ---- |> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass | | | |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 21:28:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:05:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ghostman.com!candy From: "Candy Thurman" To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Wed, 21 Apr 99 20:03:50 Message-ID: <199904220304.VAA22530@mantis.privatei.com> Precedence: bulk Okay, I must respond... I work less than 5 miles from where the shooting happened. I work for Lockheed/Martin.. my sweetheart works downtown Denver for JohnsManville.. both companies have many families who live, work, and go to school in the Littleton area.. many people went home as soon as we knew.. Parents aren't always aware of what their children are up to. Both the parents of the shooters *and* the parents of the children who taunt those who are different, in race, creed, color of clothing or whatever the fad is this year,,,, are responsible and I'm sure feel absolutely horrible about the whole thing. There are very many good children, and good parents and unfortunately they don't always match up.. I hear lots of anger around me (understandable), but no one says "I'm going home right now and talk to my kids and let them know I'll not stand for (pick one) firearms, taunting, drinking, drugs, 'bad' music.... I don't have any kids. As a result, I treat them all as if they were mine. I feel for the lost good ones, as well as the lost bad ones.. at one time, they were all googling in their cribs, and smiling in response to a human face or voice. Candy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 21:29:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:39:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "bungi.com" Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:36:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.183640.0> Precedence: bulk Albert, I agree with you. I am really sorry about the "stuff" with your son, but the parents of the other kids ARE the reason for the problem. You know I think parents of some of these off the wall out of control sorry excuses for kids are afraid of their own children. My best friend has a dirt bag son that she defends to the death, early on it was all his teachers were against him, then all his bosses are against him, all his co workers and so on. The parent is in denial and she just can't see that her son is the bad guy, not the teachers or the bosses or whatever. Drugs, not my son. Stolen goods in his bedroom, not my son. Money missing from the till at his job, no my son..... Fire in military housing of a motor cycle he didn't pay for....... not my son....... I have heard it all....... Again the parent is the root of the problem. She can't see the trees for the forest. This kid is now 26 years old, and living with mommy, not going to school, not working and plays dungeons and dragons all day long on the computer. I have often said he was a kid that scared me, and he does. Thank heavens they live 3500 miles away. What I would like to know is, how teens can dress like they did (dressing in a avantgarde way isn't in and of itself an indication the kid is bad, but swastikas & jack boots........?? and that sort of stuff should set off some sort of alarm in the parents), and building bombs in the basement and garage and bedroom and the parents didn't know. Where did the guns come from, where did the money to buy the ammo come from? Right now I think the parents should be in jail for being terminally stupid if nothing else. I am angry, I don't have the answer, but this is just beyond..............words fail me. I am 53 years old, I never had to be worried as a kid about getting shot in school, or coming and going to school. I went to school in Pasadena, California, large city back in the old days, L.A. County School System. But I was just a happy little camper going back and forth to school. I went to High School in the San Francisco area and there were cliques back then but never any violence. Of course the High School I went to excelled in Water Polo not football. He he he I personally think if a few parents got tossed in jail for their kids actions the word would get around and maybe the parents would take more care in raising them. Oh well.... I know that nothing we say or do is going to take the pain away from those folks in Denver tonight or tomorrow....... A lot of young people have had their lives just shattered forever, the kids, their proms, their graduation just wiped away which when you are in high school that is a big deal. I hope that there is going to be counseling for these people long term, not just the next couple of weeks. Off my soap box now. Time to get with it and get some glass ideas formulated. Linda Jo It isn't fair that now kids have to worry about getting shot while eating lunch in the lunchroom. Our city is talking about uniforms district wide, my suggestion is naked, then they won't have a place to hide there guns. -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis To: glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 9:52 PM Subject: RE: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING > >> The basic problem is that children have gotten out of control. > >I think it's their parents who've gotten out of control. > >A mild (but personal) example: My son's been being harrassed at >school ever since last Fall when he first entered it as a new >student. A group of the usual sort of bullies calling him "homo" and >such (well, he *does dress funny and those paisley pants are "out >there") and he'd respond by blowing them kisses and otherwise >smarting off. > >When that didn't stop them, I told him to just ignore them. That made >it worse and finally they jumped him after school downtown twice in >as many months, punched him in the nose. The cops were called, they >were put on notice and they just continued so he filed complaints for >assault or assult and battery (depending) and we went to court >yesterday. > >I couldn't believe my ears when the boys' parents not only defended >them, but (in court) called my son a "homo" and a "nigger," argued >with the judge over the definition of "assault" versus "battery" >versus "threat." (With the *judge yet!) > >After the boys had been bound over for trial (and one had arrived >with a probation officer because he was already in jail on another >charge), the parents continued their high-minded conversation and >gentle chatter outside in front of the courthouse. That is they >elaborated on their feeling toward me that "homos" should be beaten >up. The boys are 15 and 16. > >What a swell bunch of role models. And I suspect the boys in Colorado >had just as good a set of role models in their parents. Just a hunch. > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 21:49:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:14:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Bob Jones Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:13:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.17138.0> References: <<1999Apr21.154357.0>> Precedence: bulk > How many of you realized that this week marked the > 4 year anniversary of the Okla. city bombing. I for one did. T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 23:04:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:06:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Candy Thurman" Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:03:43 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.15343.0> Precedence: bulk Candy wrote, in part: Parents aren't always aware of what their children are up to. Both the parents of the shooters *and* the parents of the children who taunt those who are different, in race, creed, color of clothing or whatever the fad is this year,,,, are responsible and I'm sure feel absolutely horrible about the whole thing.<<< I don't think so. The parents of the student body and staff of the school are not likely to take any responsibality for what happened. After all, that would transfer a degree of guilt to them. As ever it is the sole fault of the outcasts...................Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 23:21:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:48:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!gcanvas From: "James C. Kelly" To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Fw: fireplace screen Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 00:44:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.204420.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Shari, Thanks so much. Picture came thru great. Heat resistant enamels are made for auto engine components and = available in most = auto stores. If nowhere else. Probably most hardware stores. Jim Kelly Virginia Beach VA gcanvas@compuserve.com Thursday, April 22, 1999 >>Hi all. Here is the fireplace screen photo and catalog >>description I mentioned. Whaddya think? I think it's pretty, >>not really excited about the design, but ok, but $2,500!! Wow. >>Also, I don't know what "heat resistant enamel" is, but I still >>would assume it's a summer screen and not to be used with a >>roaring fire behind it. >>Shari ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 23:36:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:12:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: glass@bungi.com, Dani Greer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:44:33 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.144433.0> References: <<1999Apr21.185852.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk > Or no role models because their parents are too > busy with their careers. We live in a society that > is in a relentless state of denial. I think we have to be real careful of statements like this that they dont turn into bashing working mothers....my experience with kids that are sociopaths (and thats what these kids are) is that their parents SUCK as role models...they treat other people shabbily and children mimic what they see..throw in some child abuse and probably a total lack of real human connection in these families and there you have it....most of the working parents I know are excellent role models and their children do not suffer....its real convenient to trot out the ole "moms got her career instead of being home where she 'belongs'" to make us feel that the solution to crap like this is as easy as arm twisting women into staying home. the real things that would fix problems like this are much much more complex than this... Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 23:46:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:14:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: Candy Thurman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:53:24 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr21.145324.0> References: <<199904220304.VAA22530@mantis.privatei.com>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk Candy Thurman wrote: > > Okay, I must respond... > > I work less than 5 miles from where the shooting happened. I work for Lockheed/Martin.. > my sweetheart works downtown Denver for JohnsManville.. both companies have > many families who live, work, and go to school in the Littleton area.. many people went > home as soon as we knew.. > > Parents aren't always aware of what their children are up to. Both the parents of the > shooters *and* the parents of the children who taunt those who are different, in race, > creed, color of clothing or whatever the fad is this year,,,, are responsible and I'm sure > feel absolutely horrible about the whole thing. There are very many good children, and > good parents and unfortunately they don't always match up.. > > I hear lots of anger around me (understandable), but no one says "I'm going home right > now and talk to my kids and let them know I'll not stand for (pick one) firearms, taunting, > drinking, drugs, 'bad' music.... > > I don't have any kids. As a result, I treat them all as if they were mine. I feel for the lost > good ones, as well as the lost bad ones.. at one time, they were all googling in their > cribs, and smiling in response to a human face or voice. > > Candy > > you know Candy, I am glad you brought that up, about the taunting....I was TORTURED when I was in school and yes, I acted in anti social ways...I would never have killed anyone but was that that there was something "good" about me or that I did not live in a society that shoved violence at you at every turn???? My antisocial behavior consisted of riding my horse accross the football field to tear it up before a big game and of writing malicious little poems to send anonymously to the school paper...harmless....but let me tell you, I felt real rage to the kids, teachers and other parents who felt I was invisible and expendable...God knows what I would have done then if I had had access to firearms and/or had there been a precedent of this sort of thing happening elsewhere....like I suspect of these kids I had no connection with my sole family member (my mother) was not disciplined and felt alienated and purposeless in the world...now maybe my mother treated other people better than these kids parents did....I think that is a factor too....kids treat others about the same as they see thier parents treating others...the "best" parenting technique is to model good behavior, altho certainly other t hings are neccessary too..... I dont think it is right to blame society for these kids behavior, everyone is accountable for their own behavior...but yes, there is a cruelty in the public school subculture and God help the person who doesnt cut it and fit in...did anyone ever see "Carrie" (I am sure you all did, of course I, good Stephen King fan that I am, have seen it.....) I am sure that was the fantasy of every rejected kid in America who saw it...how far in this day and age is the fantasy of "getting" all your tormenters when we live in an environment where violence is just so much currency in trade...... Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 21 23:59:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:15:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!S-Perchelli From: S-Perchelli@webtv.net (Susan Perchelli) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary=WebTV-Mail-373294415-1356 Subject: Re: Window treatments (was newbie question) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:14:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr21.151426.0> References: <> Precedence: bulk --WebTV-Mail-373294415-1356 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Bud Britt wrote: "I was dismayed that what I call the "Old School" went on the defense or possibly offence, just because someone was offering something new, that had not passed the "Old School Seal Of Approval" Testing Regime. Perhaps now, with the offers by some that are sought after for their advice and experience, to test, the product, maybe it might become like another product that I have heard about in this list. I wonder what them ol'timers said, when some newcomer started to use that stove black (Zebo/Zebrite) on their lead to make it look better,,, And now, there are ol'timers that swear by the stuff,,," ********************* Yes...and I'll bet Tiffany and his laborers would have jumped for joy had they been told that there were grinders available....and I bet they would have used a few saws as well. I bet if we all looked around our own houses, we find lots of things we don't need and things that really don't do anything...yet we all spend money on them. It's the American way of gratifying ourselves. As to donating...I've always felt that the breast cancer research and the AIDS foundation are at the top of my list. And...when you donate...you donate. Why should you "expect" something in return? Sue --WebTV-Mail-373294415-1356 Content-Description: signature Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/HTML; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Guido told me to keep my mouth shut, but I didn't listen. So now...me and Salvatore "The Mute" are learning sign language together. --WebTV-Mail-373294415-1356-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 00:07:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:18:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!RmsGlass From: RmsGlass@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Sal Amoniac Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 01:17:20 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr22.51720.0> Precedence: bulk Hi - I have a trick to keeping my iron clean and tinned. First, keeping it well fluxed and wiping with a sponge is important. It gets gunked up when it hasn't been tinned recently because it was left on unused for awhile. To retin it, I have a thin piece of metal that I occasionally wipe with my flux brush. I heat the small flux spot with the iron and lay down a thin coat of solder. Then just after I wipe the tip with the sponge to remove the residue, I run both sides of the iron over the solder until it melts and leaves the iron tip cleanly tinned. I occasionally have to replenish the solder and flux during this process. The metal can't be too thick, but it can be long, or else the solder won't readily melt in about 5 seconds or less. I would think a metal jar lid, that you may need to nail down, will work good. A new Bungi member Don Sabourin Red Mountain Stained Glass, http://members.aol.com/rmsglass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 00:09:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:20:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:19:04 -0700 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990421221904.00a14100@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> References: <<199904212357.TAA16474@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk At 08:05 PM 4/21/99 +0000, Albert wrote: > >I couldn't believe my ears when the boys' parents not only defended >them, but (in court) called my son a "homo" and a "nigger," argued >with the judge over the definition of "assault" versus "battery" >versus "threat." (With the *judge yet!) > Amazing...at what point does contempt of court kick in when Starr isn't involved? Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 00:19:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:21:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!RmsGlass From: RmsGlass@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Glue Question Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 01:18:27 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr22.51827.0> Precedence: bulk Hi - I have done several 6 and 8 panel lamps recently. I tried UHU and it worked good. I tried Avery Removable Glue Stic and didn't work as good. It was thicker and stringier than UHU and made the paper uneven. UHU lays a thin coat. What I found works best is to print the pattern on 28 pound paper (Xerox Photo Quality Matte Ink Jet Paper). I tried the IBM version, but it left the ink line ragged for some reason. Then to make it last through 3 or 4 panels, I coated both sides with Clear Spray Lacquer before cutting out the pieces. The paper doesn't tend to shrivel, curl, or tear especially when it gets wet from the grinder, and is very enduring. I wipe off the glue from the paper before I reuse it. The glue washes off the glass with liquid soap. Occasionally the paper slides off the glass during grinding. I wipe dry the glass and the paper, and recoat it with glue. I also learned how to hold the glass using a thin, flat stick so I don't have to push against the paper. Instead my fingers push down on the paper so it doesn't tend to slide away from the glass. A new Bungi member Don Sabourin Red Mountain Stained Glass, http://members.aol.com/rmsglass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 03:22:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 01:45:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones From: "B. S. Jones" To: "'Blake, Wayne, & Susan'" , "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Sal Amoniac Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:44:42 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.104442.0> Precedence: bulk >Hi Bungians. >I have a question for you. >Do many of you out there use Sal Amoniac when soldering? >( I have no idea if I'm spelling that correctly ) >Is there something else that I can use to de-gunk my iron, that won't >leave >me near-comatose? >Does it sound as if I've just reached my lead limit and my head is on the >verge of exploding? >I am buying a box fan today and am going to unstick the window so that I >can put the fan in it, and hopefully sweep all fumes out. But if there >IS >an alternative to Sal Amoniac, I'm READY for it!! >Thanks! >Blake Blake, I do not use any form of iron cleaning method other than a file. The reason for this is that I gave up plated iron bits in any form years ago other than for soldering of electronic components which is what they are designed for.I use a plain cheap 100 watt iron with a plain copper bit that is about 3/8 of an inch in dia. The type where the bit is simply held in place in the element with a set screw.Every time I start to use the iron during warm up I simply file it clean,flux it and tin it ready for use.Yes the bits wear out in time but so what . Buying them from the iron manufacturer they come as nickel plated copper which the plating soon goes anyway. You can make your own out of copper bar. A length of copper bar 3 feet long this dia can be bought locally close to where I live for about 3 dollars equ. This can be sawn up and filed to shape a bit or bent if necessary for an angled bit. This makes the bits about a tenth of the cost of buying plastic packaged replacements.If they get scruffy with copper oxide close to the iron element I simply sling them and fashion a new one. Consequently the only heated chemical in the air which I can not get out of is the flux and adequate ventilation sorts that out. If you get fan of some sort that will most likely help a lot. Brandon UK ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 03:54:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 02:27:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Photographing glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 05:35:12 +0000 Message-ID: <199904220927.FAA23110@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > It seems that the way to make money at crafts is to photograph them! Since photographs are the most efficient way to let people at a distance know about your work, good photos that show the work at its best advantage are important. I think you'll find that the investment will pay for itself over the long haul. Besides, they can be used not only by themselves, but in brochures (and there are relatively inexpensive places to have color brochures printed) and on web sites. When you compare the cost of sending a photo (or using it in one of the two other ways I've suggested) to the airfare, hotel, taxi and food expenses you'd otherwise spend to go show the work to a single potential buyer, the cost of the photos will pale by the comparison. My 2c Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 04:18:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 03:01:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!rwl50 From: Rick To: glass@bungi.com, Bob Jones , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 03:00:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr21.20048.0> Precedence: bulk --- Bob Jones wrote: "So no discipline and then this. We have reaped what we have sowed." Bob, I couldn't agree more. Disipline is no way any where near what it was when I was that age. I attend a Fransician run high school and if you even LOOKEd like you MIGHT step out of line. WHOOP, right on the back of the head!! Now I can already hear the moaning out there, but that school and the priests left a very lasting impression on my, literally and figuratiely. Did that replace the disiplne at home? NOPE, Dad went to the same school LOL. We didn't even no what the word child abuse was, we didnt' show up with lawyers every time one of us got our ass kicked, and when there was a fight, it was the good old fashioned way. No knives, guns, pipe bombs. You can say what you want about video games, movies, drugs, alcohol or whatever influencing the kids of today but IMHO, that is pure, unadultrated BS. It all comes down to parenting, and disipline at home. The parents of those two punks ought to be in jail. My 2 cents. Rick === http://home.fuse.net/crafts _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 04:49:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 03:31:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mpx.com.au!ktsplash From: "ktsplash" To: "Bungi List" , Subject: Re: PI4 and seeing finished product Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:28:48 +1000 Message-ID: <1999Apr23.62848.0> Precedence: bulk , The newly defined material can be >use to define each piece of glass in a proposed work, and then rendered with the >rest of the house, from a perspective view such that : this is how the panel >will look in a specific house to a 5'6" person standing 8' from the window at 4 >in the afternoon on May 4th > Wow! God I love this age! Only thing is, in the time it would take me to learn how to do all this on a computer, not to mention save up the $ for the software!, I could probably just make the piece and try it out for real! Katie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 05:15:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 03:31:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mpx.com.au!ktsplash From: "ktsplash" To: "Bungi List" Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:31:38 +1000 Message-ID: <1999Apr23.63138.0> Precedence: bulk Kids do something heinous, blame the parents for the upbringing. Parents themselves had bad upbringings, blame the grandparents, Grandparents had bad upbringings, and so on and so forth. I absolutely agree that childhood and upbringing moulds the character, and I ALSO believe that every person should be held accountable for their own actions. If we want this sort of tragic circumstance to STOP, it's NOT just a matter of what deterrent there is ie. Will they go to jail? Capital Punishment? Throw the parents in jail? It is a matter of EDUCATING ourselves ABOUT ourselves, understanding our emotions and how to deal with them in ways that are non-threatening and non-harmful to others. I know it's a terrible cliche, but if you want to blame anything SOCIETY is to blame. that's you and me. We learn how to read and add up and how to program computers or read blueprints or critique art in classes, and from parents. I tell you this honestly, I would rather have had lessons daily, in school and from the people around me, that taught me to understand myself and others, lessons in motivation, lessons in turning pessimistic thoughts into positive ones, lessons in relating to other people, lessons in listening skills, than lessons on quadratic equations or pascal programming. If we, as not only parents, but teachers, friends, and acquaintances, of other human beings, start giving more importance and VALUE to the skill of RELATING TO and UNDERSTANDING each other, than we do to having more money, being "smarter", being more "successful", or even just "fitting in" then perhaps we will see less of the hate and despair that we saw yesterday. , I was so determined not to unleash my naivete and idealism on another unsuspecting group Katie (master of the looooong sentence) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 06:05:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 04:22:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 07:28:34 +0000 Message-ID: <199904221120.HAA24423@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > had just as good a set of role models in their parents. Just a > hunch. > I take offense to your notion, that all people that get in trouble > come from parents with the same morals. Sorry, Margie, I didn't mean to offend anyone, and my comments were entirely race-free. I just think that kids are what they're taught to be, both in word and by example, whatever their background, race, religion, creed, or ecoomic status. As the twig is bent, so grows the tree. There are always exceptions, but they prove the rule, IMHO. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 06:26:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 04:53:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Whoopie! Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 07:52:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.3523.0> Precedence: bulk Congratulations Cindy! Abbie in Va. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 06:31:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 05:34:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mindspring.com!pigznpawz From: "Jerri" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: NON GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:33:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.43310.0> Precedence: bulk A few years ago, there was an incident here, where a bus driver, trying to settle a bus full of obnoxious kids, pulled over and stopped, rufusing to go until the kids settled down, sat in their seats, and behaved. Sounds like the safest thing to do right? Well, I had to pick my jaw up off the floor when it was all over the news because the parents (quite a few of them) went nuts and wanted the bus driver fired!! Apparently she had no right to try to control the children on her bus. I know sometimes a sociopath is a sociopath, even with the best, most involved parents, but I'm sure most of these parents will be defending their children all the way to jail. Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 06:53:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 05:36:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Okla. Bomb,Ng Glass Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:36:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.43630.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Suzanne, One of my Co- workers lost his sister to that bombing....we had a small prayer at work that night, just like the one we had this week for the school victums. I dont think anyone forgot when it happened , I think we all just don't want to remember that it did happen...Take care sweetie, Abbie in Va. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 07:21:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 05:25:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Ng...shooting Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:24:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.42455.0> Precedence: bulk My heart goes out to the families of the shooting victums, and to the families of the 2 boys who did this.They will carry this burden a long , long time. Abbie in Va. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 07:43:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 05:58:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Leadlines From: Leadlines@aol.com To: gecko@ipa.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Sal Amoniac Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:56:39 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr22.125639.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all..... I have a new twist on iron tip cleaning. I use a bit of bronze wool instead of a wet sponge on my iron stand. I have used this method for the past few years with great success. I have since packed away the sal ammoniac and find that my iron tip lasts 3-4 times longer, without re-tinning! Wipe the iron frequently across the bronze wool while soldering. When the bronze wool gets GUNKY, flip it over and use the other side. My iron tips have never been CLEANER, it is amazing. Bronze wool is sold in bags of 5-6 pads for about $4.00 @ your home stores. I cut each pad into 3-4 pieces to fit the iron stand. All this and a bargain to BOOT! Luanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 08:15:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 06:27:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:33:20 +0000 Message-ID: <199904221325.JAA15123@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > and I ALSO believe that every person should be held accountable for > their own actions. If we want this sort of tragic circumstance to > STOP, it's NOT just a matter of what deterrent there is ie. Will > they go to jail? Capital Punishment? Throw the parents in jail? Well, these particular young "men" took the coward's way out by killing themselves. I guess they had *some small sense of the gravity of their actions and I hope their parents agonize over every word they said and action they took during the formation of these boys' "character." Surely there were signs and indications. MO only, of course. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 09:13:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 06:42:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:41:16 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.34116.0> References: <<3.0.3.32.19990421221904.00a14100@mail.villagesoftsmith.com>> Precedence: bulk I don't think we are gonna have this figured out here... In college while I majored in Criminology, I studied lots of theory regarding "what causes people to do bad things?" Environment vs. Biology etc...There are lots of theories for explaining criminal behavior. They are finding more and more that biology has more to do with it than we knew before....and there are formulas for creating sociopaths....but some are a complete surprise to everyone and some did have decent families. We are beings with free choice. Some people dont consider consequences to their actions, and some dont care, regardless. Some racists and bigots come from families that arent racist or bigoted, and would be shocked to find their children believe as they do. Personally, I really am believing more and more that we are becoming a desensitized society particularly regarding violence, in part because of the media. Kids see death and carnage on TV and movies all the time. I dont watch alot of tv, and when I do, I am frequently repulsed by what I see. I wont let my kids watch that stuff. Watching alot of what is available on television robs kids of their innocence too early. If it were as simple as it being the parents fault...geeze oh pete...just think how bad it would really be....how many perfect parents do you know? How many parents are that intune to their kids? How many of your parents were perfect? How many of you always had great self esteems, shared everything with your parents, didnt hide anything about your self? Its too easy to blame the parents. These kids did know better. Tulsa Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 09:36:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 06:47:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "bungi.com" , Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:45:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.54549.0> Precedence: bulk Katie, I agree we all have to be accountable for our deeds. I am ready and willing to take responsibility for everything I have done in my life. That being said..... but...... there is a common thread through serial killers, mass murders, school shooters that tends (not always) to lead back to by way of subtle signals things in the family. That is why when we are born parents are assigned (sort of a little thing God came up with), because kids need them. I the most recent cases around the country and right here in Jacksonville, when the information starts to come out there are things that were red flags. (A young girl was murdered here in Jacksonville, 3 days later the body was found under the killer/child's water bed. Mom said they didn't notice the smell of the decaying little girl, because they had birds, cats and animals in the house...... huh??? Dead body, 3 days, summer, and the adult in the household didn't notice anything odd. Please!, yes the kid did the deed but where were Mom and Dad when he lured the child into the house, beat and killed her, and then took his waterbed apart, put the body under and refilled the waterbed...... where?? It didn't happen in 10 minutes, it took time.) There are so many factors and no one is going to solve this issue, it is very complex. I think all of us talking about this on a glass page is our way of getting our pain over this out. We need to try somehow to make sense of something that no sense can be made of. The need to talk about it and express our hurt and pain. Linda Jo -----Original Message----- From: ktsplash To: Bungi List Date: Thursday, April 22, 1999 8:16 AM Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING >Kids do something heinous, blame the parents for the upbringing. Parents >themselves had bad upbringings, blame the grandparents, Grandparents had bad >upbringings, and so on and so forth. >I absolutely agree that childhood and upbringing moulds the character, and I >ALSO believe that every person should be held accountable for their own >actions. >If we want this sort of tragic circumstance to STOP, it's NOT just a matter >of what deterrent there is ie. Will they go to jail? Capital Punishment? >Throw the parents in jail? >It is a matter of EDUCATING ourselves ABOUT ourselves, understanding our >emotions and how to deal with them in ways that are non-threatening and >non-harmful to others. >I know it's a terrible cliche, but if you want to blame anything SOCIETY is >to blame. that's you and me. We learn how to read and add up and how to >program computers or read blueprints or critique art in classes, and from >parents. >I tell you this honestly, I would rather have had lessons daily, in school >and from the people around me, that taught me to understand myself and >others, lessons in motivation, lessons in turning pessimistic thoughts into >positive ones, lessons in relating to other people, lessons in listening >skills, than lessons on quadratic equations or pascal programming. >If we, as not only parents, but teachers, friends, and acquaintances, of >other human beings, start giving more importance and VALUE to the skill of >RELATING TO and UNDERSTANDING each other, than we do to having more money, >being "smarter", being more "successful", or even just "fitting in" then >perhaps we will see less of the hate and despair that we saw yesterday. >, I was so determined not to unleash my naivete and >idealism on another unsuspecting group >Katie (master of the looooong sentence) > > > > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 09:54:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 07:20:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Thu Apr 22 07:18:58 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr23.45658.0> Precedence: bulk Mom, working or not, is not the only role model. Dad, uncles aunts cousins and even friends fall into the role also. The increase in violence is very much society's problem and blame cannot be pinned on only one part of it. A few years ago I attended a hearing on a "Parental Responsibility Law", here in New Jersey. The law basically stated that the parents were financially liable for damage done by their children. I asked the sponsoring assemblyman if the parent would still be responsible if the damaged occurred while the child should have been in school. After all once the child is at school it is the school acting as parent. The assemblyman responded that the parent was still responsible even though the school failed to live up to it's responsibility for keeping the child in the building. Of course the parents are solely responsible. We can't blame schools that allow children to run wild and whose sole discipline is "You are expelled for X days and cannot come to school. It's not the fault of the courts and legislatures who refuse to hold children accountable or pass laws that make murder, rape and drug dealing punishable for those under 18. And most importantly it cannot be placed on the Youth Authorities (in NJ that is DYFS, Division of Youth And Family Services) who claims it is criminal to allow a parent to punish a child and prosecute parents who commit such horrible acts as spanking or sending a child to bed without supper or even (fair warning for the faint hearted) allow a 5 year old to put on a sweat shirt in July and learn for themselves how hot it can be. (Obviously the parents should have spent an hour or two explaining it to the child. A 5 year old should be able to understand the biology and physics involved. I cannot imagine the damage done to a child when you allow him to sweat.) Too many people in the public eye are obsessed with assigning guilt. If they put half the effort into finding a solution that they do into posturing for the media and expanding on the correct agenda (theirs) maybe we would get some answers. Vic M. (after a very long couple of nights) Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Arakelian [mailto:glshorse@ior.com] Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 12:45 AM To: glass@bungi.com; Dani Greer Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING > Or no role models because their parents are too > busy with their careers. We live in a society that > is in a relentless state of denial. I think we have to be real careful of statements like this that they dont turn into bashing working mothers....my experience with kids that are sociopaths (and thats what these kids are) is that their parents SUCK as role models...they treat other people shabbily and children mimic what they see..throw in some child abuse and probably a total lack of real human connection in these families and there you have it....most of the working parents I know are excellent role models and their children do not suffer....its real convenient to trot out the ole "moms got her career instead of being home where she 'belongs'" to make us feel that the solution to crap like this is as easy as arm twisting women into staying home. the real things that would fix problems like this are much much more complex than this... Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 10:27:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 07:57:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Thu Apr 22 07:56:54 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr23.53454.0> Precedence: bulk Anyone remember that it is also the anniversary of a fire in a little town called Waco? If memory serves me the Okla. city bombing occurred on the second anniversary of Waco. Of course no innocents died in that one. Everything must have been handled properly since most of the higher ups involved were promoted. Vic M. who promises to get over it all by Friday. Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com > How many of you realized that this week marked the > 4 year anniversary of the Okla. city bombing. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 10:40:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:06:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aries17.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Glue Question Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:59:17 -0400 Message-ID: <199904221459.KAA00705@aries17.uwaterloo.ca> Precedence: bulk > Yes, I use a grinder. I have tried using a couple of types of glue > to stick the pattern onto the glass I am trying to shape, but the > pattern washes off before I have finished grinding. Any suggestions > on a glue that will hold the pattern, but not be a big pain to remove > from the glass? Perhaps rubber cement? Thanks. > Buck Rubber cement, in good amounts and let to dry. It works well for me. Do not use it when it starts to get too dry as it seems easier to come off. I use the bottle kind, with the applicator, the spray is too mesy for small pieces). -- Daniel M. German "For indeed who is there alive that will not be swayed by his bias and partiality to Jonathan Swift -> the place of his birth?" http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 11:07:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:16:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: iag.net!judyc From: judy campbell To: Rick ,glass@bungi.com,Bob Jones Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 08:04:35 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981004080435.007cd6f0@pop3.iag.net> References: <<1999Apr21.20048.0>> Precedence: bulk My parents always told me if I got spanked at school I would get one when I got home; thank God I never did. When I was doing my student teaching it was at a school at the edge of campus and consisted mostly of all of the profs brats--as they were called--and we had a lot of problems with them and their parents were too busy socializing to care. Those years were the begining of less discipline in the schools and giving the children more freedom. Seems today alot of parents are afraid to discipline their children. Until we get discipline back in the homes and schools we will always have problems. What alot of parents don't realize is children not only need but want discipline. Back to lurking!!! Judy Campbell t 03:00 AM 4/22/99 -0700, Rick wrote: > > >--- Bob Jones wrote: > > "So no discipline and then this. We have reaped >what we have sowed." > >Bob, I couldn't agree more. Disipline is no way any >where near what it was when I was that age. I attend a >Fransician run high school and if you even LOOKEd like >you MIGHT step out of line. WHOOP, right on the back >of the head!! Now I can already hear the moaning out >there, but that school and the priests left a very >lasting impression on my, literally and figuratiely. >Did that replace the disiplne at home? NOPE, Dad went >to the same school LOL. > >We didn't even no what the word child abuse was, we >didnt' show up with lawyers every time one of us got >our ass kicked, and when there was a fight, it was the >good old fashioned way. No knives, guns, pipe bombs. > >You can say what you want about video games, movies, >drugs, alcohol or whatever influencing the kids of >today but IMHO, that is pure, unadultrated BS. It all >comes down to parenting, and disipline at home. The >parents of those two punks ought to be in jail. My 2 >cents. > >Rick > > >=== >http://home.fuse.net/crafts > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 11:25:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:03:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Sal Amoniac Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:01:48 -0700 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Hi Blake, Can you take your SA and iron outdoors to clean. When I use mine, it's close to the smoke detector and feel it could set it off!...smokes like crazy. I'm very concerned about ventilation and ones health. Albert has given us alot of extremely good info and if it is giving you terrible headaches you should be concerned. Cindy PS thank you every one for you kind words on other day's message...back to the grind stone...ha,ha,ha! > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 11:33:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:03:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:01:35 -0700 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk You know this horrid violence is also in BC, (one example)...while back a bunch of girls beat and killed another girl...trial is now in court. So it's a BIG issue everywhere. I agree parents should have more insight into their childrens lives. And children's lives aren't the same as when I was a child. And why??? I know in this household my *guys* like to watch it on tv, as movies. If it doesn't have 49 violent acts in the first 5 minutes it's not interesting. The list goes on and on. We have these horrid *home invasion* going on, it's on the news continuely. Young people go in and terrorize old folks and destroying their lives. It's scary! Cindy...who's extemely saddened that this has happen to you guys in the USA. Something has to be done, it's way out of control. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 11:51:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:39:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: ng - Shooting Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:18:11 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.41811.0> Organization: SBWSA Precedence: bulk There must be a way to identify children who may in the future become sociopaths, criminals or have other personality disorders. For some reason, schizophrenia manifests itself in boys in their teens and girls in their early 20's. If science knows this much about a mental disease, then there must be a screening process, gene identification, or something to catch this behavior early. If there isn't such a process, then any child who at an early age engages in antisocial behavior, should be screened and counseling started at an early age. The parents of the two murderers must have seen something abnormal in the behavior of their sons, not only in their outlandish outfits which in many cases is simply a matter of self expression, but in their attitudes towards minorities and people who they thought were picking on them. Also, did they not notice guns and homemade bombs around the house? Albert may be right, the parents simply don't want to believe their child can be bad. When my son was about 6 years old, he took a pack of gum from a store. I took him back, made him go to the manager of the store, return the gum, and apologize for what he did. It never happened again, he learned a lesson. I may have slapped his backside, but don't want to say it because now it seems to be child abuse, sheesh. I don't believe it was lost on anyone that this happened on the anniversary of the Oklahoma bombing, but it was also Hitler's birthday. The Black Trench coats were worn by the SS in Germany, and I believe these kids were part of a neo Nazi group. Again, where were the parents? I know this age of constant changing technologies, job stress, both parents having careers, puts a strain on family life. I think we've become more selfish, more "me first" rather than making sure we raise our children correctly. Let's face it, this is a fast paced society and something is going to get left by the wayside, and it looks like there are a of kids falling. One more thing (sorry about the long post). There are going to be lawsuits filed; probably the first one is already on its' way. The school will be sued for not having adequate protection, the parents of the murderers, and possibly even EMS personnel, hospitals, doctors, good samaritans ( I know about the good samaritan law), and if they find out where the materials for the bombs were purchased, another one. This is a litigious society after all. I hope I'm wrong. IMHO. Carol T ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 11:57:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:14:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!mschatee From: mschatee@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: NG It can happen anywhere Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:09:39 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr22.16939.0> Precedence: bulk I have to come out of lurkerdom to add my 2 cents. I live in a little hick town pop. less than 6000. A few years ago a young man (who always wheres a trenchcoat) blew his hand off making a homemade bomb in his basement. I think he was 15 at the time. When the police investigated and searched his home they found all kinds of paraphenalia that could produce bombs, nazi crap and baseball bat that had burned into it "Fag Killer". It turned out he was the head of the local neo-nazi group. Guess what his dad said about all of it? "Boys will be boys!!!" Yes the parents need to take some responsibility for their children! This kid who has a hook for a hand now went back to school, no criminal charges were enforced because it was an accident at home and technically he didn't commit any crimes. My friends husband is on the school board and he said the other night that they had to let him back in school even though the majority of the student population was scared to death of him. When I see him walk past my house or see him down on main street hanging with his friends I shutter. What is happening about him and his friends? NOTHING!!! Maybe blowing his hand off was a wake up call and saved others from him in the future who knows. But my point is his damn father didn't do a thing about him. Parents must get involved. Schools must support them, politicians must support the schools and on and on but up. It starts with us! Mothers Against Drunk Driving is now in every state in our country and it started out as one pissed off mother. We need mothers and fathers to be pissed off and do something. Write to the NRA and let them know how you feel. www.NRA.com. They have a section titled Contact Us. Let them know that we are afraid. If we as adults are afraid I can't imagine what the children are feeling. I don't have any but I am a teacher, we are on spring break this week. But hopefully next Monday every teacher will be talking to the kids about what to do and let them share their fears! We want to feel safe. Okay I've said enough. Write your politicians, write everyone, let them know how you feel. Caren ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 12:21:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:16:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!mschatee From: mschatee@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Sorry and update Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:09:39 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr22.16939.0> Precedence: bulk For those of you who asked me for patterns and Herkimer Diamonds I have not forgotten you. I am recuperating from surgery right now, this is my first day sitting up at the computer writing, so glass hasn't been on my mind. I will be happy to send anyone the Jewish patterns or Diamonds, but ccould you please write to me again and refresh my memory as to what you want. I have kept a list of names and addresses but didn't put whether you wanted the patterns or diamonds (hum it must have been the anesthesia, yeah thats it!) And for the other update, remember my problem with the retailer in NY who wouldn't give me his time so I walked out. Well I wanted patterns and glass to make my sister 2 panels for her birthday. I brought my mom to my local glass supplier, she was very aware of the difference immediately. We were there for almost 3 hours and walked out with a pattern of his that he even enlarged for us on his copy machine, glass and solder. He was so wonderful and patient, as was his assistant Sandy. By the way it's called Gregg's Stained Glass in Herkimer, NY (he might as well get the credit). Maybe his selection of glass wasn't as big and his place isn't as organized but we walked out very happy and satisfied. That's how I like to do business. Thanks Bill! Now I can't wait to get back to doing glass. Maybe next week after I can conquer stairs! Since my workshop is in the basement. Back to lurkerdom now, Caren ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 12:26:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:19:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!slsheldon From: "Sharon Sheldon" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:24:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.82453.0> References: <<199904221325.JAA15123@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk Hi Folks, I've been lurking when it comes to stained glass talk (new hobby of mine) but I've sat here shaking my head "yes" over too many of these posts not to chime in. I am very curious as to how these boys' parents will react to what's happened. I haven't heard anything yet. I'm going to relay something that I feel is both telling and horrifying about the mindset of some parents today. This is from memory so if someone knows this situation and I have a fact or two out of sequence, I apologize. You can probably find an accounting of this at washingtonpost.com Back in '97 there was a particularly gruesome murder of a 17 year old boy in suburban MD (torture, dismemberment, set on fire, etc.). When they tracked down the boys who were responsible for this, it turns out that one of the boys' father helped him hide from the police, even to the point of talking to the boy (who had fled the state) via pay phones so the police wouldn't know, and in my opinion, hindered the investigation further by paying for an airline ticket to send this son (MONSTER?) to Israel and then dispatched another older son to NY to pick up the son's car and drive it back to MD and park it at a local airport to throw off the scent. Here's the rub -- the father had been born in Israel and according to their law, children born of Israeli nationales carry automatic dual citizenship. Extradition of this human scum was going to be a nightmare, if it was to happen at all. Over the following months, the parents of this 'child' sold their home and moved to Israel (BTW, Pop had renounced his Israeli citizenship in the 50's but that didn't seem to matter...) to help the son fight extradition to the US. The older brother who drove the car back to MD apparently was sickened by the entire episode and is helping the authorities. The other boy who was involved went to jail and hung himself in his cell the night before he was to be arraigned on the murder charge. Regarding the other gem, the Israelis decided not to extradite him and he'll begin his trail in May over there. While I'd prefer to not spend my tax money clothing, feeding and providing cable TV to such a child, I can sympathize with the parents of the child who was murdered. I'd want my day in court in the US, not in Israel where he will not receive the same severe punishment. They are all thumbing their noses at us! When I was a teenager, one of my older brothers skipped school to spend a day drinking beer with another friend. He did it once. He did it twice. The third time my parents had a police officer come to the house and lean on him that school was better than juvenile hall. A similar thing happened to my nephew when he was 15 and my brother (not the same one) did a similar thing. Although I believe most parents love their children more than anything else, the ultimate love is making them pay for mistakes that they make in life. No one learns anything if parents can network or grease the palms to make these mistakes go away. Especially these horribly violent ones. I'm sorry, I love my son and would give my life for his. BUT...if he did something illegal, there are laws and he must pay the penalty. Society must take a stand. Remember the caning of that American boy in Singapore a few years ago? All of the folks in the US were appalled. It's my recollection that when he came back to the US, he continued to be a big pain in the ass. They should have let him get all his whacks! Does anyone remember? Well, I'll tuck my soapbox away for now. Stay at home Moms (one of which I am), working Moms -- it's not who does what or how we provide for the children, it's the values we teach them (WHICH COST US NOTHING BUT TIME) and the strings that are attached to them as they mature. And we are their role models. If I can buy my way out of a jam it teaches my children that the only important thing in life is NOT GETTING CAUGHT. Just my 2 cents. Sharon in Northern VA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 15:29:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:16:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!mschatee From: mschatee@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Sorry and update Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:09:39 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr22.16939.0> Precedence: bulk For those of you who asked me for patterns and Herkimer Diamonds I have not forgotten you. I am recuperating from surgery right now, this is my first day sitting up at the computer writing, so glass hasn't been on my mind. I will be happy to send anyone the Jewish patterns or Diamonds, but ccould you please write to me again and refresh my memory as to what you want. I have kept a list of names and addresses but didn't put whether you wanted the patterns or diamonds (hum it must have been the anesthesia, yeah thats it!) And for the other update, remember my problem with the retailer in NY who wouldn't give me his time so I walked out. Well I wanted patterns and glass to make my sister 2 panels for her birthday. I brought my mom to my local glass supplier, she was very aware of the difference immediately. We were there for almost 3 hours and walked out with a pattern of his that he even enlarged for us on his copy machine, glass and solder. He was so wonderful and patient, as was his assistant Sandy. By the way it's called Gregg's Stained Glass in Herkimer, NY (he might as well get the credit). Maybe his selection of glass wasn't as big and his place isn't as organized but we walked out very happy and satisfied. That's how I like to do business. Thanks Bill! Now I can't wait to get back to doing glass. Maybe next week after I can conquer stairs! Since my workshop is in the basement. Back to lurkerdom now, Caren ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 15:34:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:19:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!slsheldon From: "Sharon Sheldon" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:24:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.82453.0> References: <<199904221325.JAA15123@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk Hi Folks, I've been lurking when it comes to stained glass talk (new hobby of mine) but I've sat here shaking my head "yes" over too many of these posts not to chime in. I am very curious as to how these boys' parents will react to what's happened. I haven't heard anything yet. I'm going to relay something that I feel is both telling and horrifying about the mindset of some parents today. This is from memory so if someone knows this situation and I have a fact or two out of sequence, I apologize. You can probably find an accounting of this at washingtonpost.com Back in '97 there was a particularly gruesome murder of a 17 year old boy in suburban MD (torture, dismemberment, set on fire, etc.). When they tracked down the boys who were responsible for this, it turns out that one of the boys' father helped him hide from the police, even to the point of talking to the boy (who had fled the state) via pay phones so the police wouldn't know, and in my opinion, hindered the investigation further by paying for an airline ticket to send this son (MONSTER?) to Israel and then dispatched another older son to NY to pick up the son's car and drive it back to MD and park it at a local airport to throw off the scent. Here's the rub -- the father had been born in Israel and according to their law, children born of Israeli nationales carry automatic dual citizenship. Extradition of this human scum was going to be a nightmare, if it was to happen at all. Over the following months, the parents of this 'child' sold their home and moved to Israel (BTW, Pop had renounced his Israeli citizenship in the 50's but that didn't seem to matter...) to help the son fight extradition to the US. The older brother who drove the car back to MD apparently was sickened by the entire episode and is helping the authorities. The other boy who was involved went to jail and hung himself in his cell the night before he was to be arraigned on the murder charge. Regarding the other gem, the Israelis decided not to extradite him and he'll begin his trail in May over there. While I'd prefer to not spend my tax money clothing, feeding and providing cable TV to such a child, I can sympathize with the parents of the child who was murdered. I'd want my day in court in the US, not in Israel where he will not receive the same severe punishment. They are all thumbing their noses at us! When I was a teenager, one of my older brothers skipped school to spend a day drinking beer with another friend. He did it once. He did it twice. The third time my parents had a police officer come to the house and lean on him that school was better than juvenile hall. A similar thing happened to my nephew when he was 15 and my brother (not the same one) did a similar thing. Although I believe most parents love their children more than anything else, the ultimate love is making them pay for mistakes that they make in life. No one learns anything if parents can network or grease the palms to make these mistakes go away. Especially these horribly violent ones. I'm sorry, I love my son and would give my life for his. BUT...if he did something illegal, there are laws and he must pay the penalty. Society must take a stand. Remember the caning of that American boy in Singapore a few years ago? All of the folks in the US were appalled. It's my recollection that when he came back to the US, he continued to be a big pain in the ass. They should have let him get all his whacks! Does anyone remember? Well, I'll tuck my soapbox away for now. Stay at home Moms (one of which I am), working Moms -- it's not who does what or how we provide for the children, it's the values we teach them (WHICH COST US NOTHING BUT TIME) and the strings that are attached to them as they mature. And we are their role models. If I can buy my way out of a jam it teaches my children that the only important thing in life is NOT GETTING CAUGHT. Just my 2 cents. Sharon in Northern VA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 15:37:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:51:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cros.net!soraya From: "Soraya" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:50:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.8508.0> Precedence: bulk ----- Original Message ----- From: Soraya To: Rick Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 12:47 PM Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING > I have not wanted to comment on the whole tragic incident in Denver...but > some of the societal comments and discipline issues have forced me to > comment or scream. > > First off...it seems to be a common idea here that discipline has to involve > hitting to be effective. I STRONGLY disagree. My 4 year old daughter has > never been hit or smacked and I doubt you will find a much better behaved > child...and not by nature...she can be a stubborn and mischievous thing at > times...my husband and I work hard to redirect that behavior. You don't > have to take my word that she is well behaved...ask her teachers...clerks at > the stores...ushers at the movies...most comment on her manners and how well > she listens. So right there 90% of the theory that kids would all be > better behaved if we went back to the way things used...gets blown out of > the water. What is going on in society is not going to be easy to fix > with a few 'swats' and I thoroughly believe that will only compound the > problem....the world has gone too far to think talking a few steps back is > going to solve anything. . As an aside...the only classmate I have had to > ban from playing with my daughter is the only one whose mother spanks her > (once inside my home scarring my daughter to death...she never knew parents > hit kids)...so there goes the other 10% the theory that beat kids are better > behaved. > > I am not some "Kids are just Kids" bleeding heart and I think there do need > to be direct consequences for their behavior...but I will never for one > second agree with anyone that espouses spanking as acceptable discipline. > > I do not know what went wrong with these two boys...or why no one > noticed...but I am willing to state that I personally believe that it > wouldn't have been prevented if their parents had beat them into line. > > Now, I for one plan on going back to talking about glass....My retailer just > had his bi-annual "Lets clean this place up" sale and I got some great deals > on Kokomo and Youghiogheny ...some as cheap as $5.00 for a half sheet > (granted not for any of the 'Wowsers' colours)!!...This should keep in busy > for awhile! All his bevels where deep discounted...so now I have to figure > our what I am going to do with them!! > > Take Care, > Soraya > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 16:03:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:51:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "Albert Lewis" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:47:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.8477.0> Precedence: bulk Yikes!!! I just couldn't sit here anymore without adding my own feelings. I was listening to all these comments and wondering if all of us are so smart and so aware of all of this why do these things happen. I guess after searching through this cluttered mind I thought about being a high school student and what was the thing that really stood out in my mind. And the thing that must have been imbedded there cause I can see it in bold letters when I close my eyes...is respect. I think most teenagers are basically good kids. And I honestly believe that these kids had a lot more problems than their dress or taste in music. (I will keep this short). And I can't imagine that any parent wouldn't know that their child is building pipe bombs in the garage?? hello? I really don't think there is any turning back to where we came from ......we are too far south for that. But I do think that someone has to intervene. And save our kids from themselves. Maybe this tragedy will help open a few of those closed eyed parents. I know that there are some who will never be saved. Albert, my heart goes out to you. Maybe the judge should have found the parents in contempt and fined them. Personally I think they ought to have a test before you can become a parent. If you don't pass it.....you don't get to play the game. my best, pj (who knows where her twenty six year old is even to this day!) Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis To: glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 10:18 PM Subject: RE: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING > >> The basic problem is that children have gotten out of control. > >I think it's their parents who've gotten out of control. > >A mild (but personal) example: My son's been being harrassed at >school ever since last Fall when he first entered it as a new >student. A group of the usual sort of bullies calling him "homo" and >such (well, he *does dress funny and those paisley pants are "out >there") and he'd respond by blowing them kisses and otherwise >smarting off. > >When that didn't stop them, I told him to just ignore them. That made >it worse and finally they jumped him after school downtown twice in >as many months, punched him in the nose. The cops were called, they >were put on notice and they just continued so he filed complaints for >assault or assult and battery (depending) and we went to court >yesterday. > >I couldn't believe my ears when the boys' parents not only defended >them, but (in court) called my son a "homo" and a "nigger," argued >with the judge over the definition of "assault" versus "battery" >versus "threat." (With the *judge yet!) > >After the boys had been bound over for trial (and one had arrived >with a probation officer because he was already in jail on another >charge), the parents continued their high-minded conversation and >gentle chatter outside in front of the courthouse. That is they >elaborated on their feeling toward me that "homos" should be beaten >up. The boys are 15 and 16. > >What a swell bunch of role models. And I suspect the boys in Colorado >had just as good a set of role models in their parents. Just a hunch. > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 16:08:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:15:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "bungi group" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Window treatments (was newbie question) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:11:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.91111.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Bud, I have no problem with finding new and exciting things to buy. Ask a few of my friends here I am probably "miss excess" these days. The only problem I have with the GJoos is what exactly it will do for the glass. And this reapplication thing has me a bit on the defensive. A majority of our installations are over 16 feet and installed thirty or forty feet off the ground. So you can imagine getting to these to reapply this stuff would be as major as an installation. Maybe it is just appropriate for small installations? I don't know. But before I go applying anything to our work I need a lot of research. I also don't think some of our major clients want to be hearing that they are going to need this major maintenance on their windows. But I could be wrong. my best, pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: Bud Britt To: Dayle Date: Thursday, April 22, 1999 12:28 AM Subject: Re: Window treatments (was newbie question) >Hello Everyone, > >I for one was one of the ones that asked for additional information on >"Joos". I wanted to know what it was, how it might help, what the price was, >and where I could get some, and I found out what I set out to find out. > >Personally, I am open to new ideas that might be of help in working with >glass, or helping to protect it (perhaps I should or ought to say, to >protect the solder and patina, since I do so far mainly copper foil). > >I was dismayed that what I call the "Old School" went on the defense or >possibly offence, just because someone was offering something new, that had >not passed the "Old School Seal Of Approval" Testing Regime. > >Perhaps now, with the offers by some that are sought after for their advice >and experience, to test, the product, maybe it might become like another >product that I have heard about in this list. > >I wonder what them ol'timers said, when some newcomer started to use that >stove black (Zebo/Zebrite) on their lead to make it look better,,, > >And now, there are ol'timers that swear by the stuff,,, > > >Sincerely, >Bud Britt > >computerministry@unitytustin.org >page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, >http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ >-----Original Message----- >From: Dayle >To: glass@bungi.com >Date: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 11:21 AM >Subject: Re: Window treatments (was newbie question) > > >|It is my understanding that inquiries into Jeff's product "giraffe joos" >|were made by someone on this list...he didn't approach the list in an >|effort to advertise. >| >|I think it's great that he has responded to inquiries and is giving list >|members another perspective on "finishing". Some may feel it has no >|application for traditional lead came but not everyone works in lead >|came either. I'm always interested in hearing how others finish their >|work and am grateful for Jeff's contributions. Isn't that what this >|forum is all about anyway? >| >|I also think that maybe he has a point about the "acid rain". Our >|environment isn't the same as it was many years ago and in time perhaps >|the traditional method of finishing won't hold up..... that's something >|to think about. >| >|We should always at least be open to new methods before blatantly >|disregarding them. Wonder how much opposition L. C. Tiffany encountered >|with his new copper foil method? >| >|I don't think it's fair to say Jeff's motives are to "rip people off", >|maybe his inquiring mind likes to explore new possibilities.... he >|seems to have alot of energy and I doubt if it's anything to feel >|threatened over. Just my opinion. >|Dayle >| >|ps Always thought I was level-headed, guess you learn something new >|everyday! >| >|Dani Greer wrote: >| >|> Message text written by "Albert Lewis" >|> >Of course, people *will try to sell stuff to use ... and say that = >|> >|> it's necessary, not that anyone here's trying to sell stuff. >|> < >|> >|> Very nicely said, Albert. As always, I appreciate your >|> tact and sensitivity. And it's true, over the years most = >|> >|> bungians have avoided using this forum to sell personal >|> stuff.... not that anyone minds a quick mention. But, = >|> >|> I don't believe this is the place for ongoing informercials. >|> All IMPO of course. >|> >|> Best, = >|> >|> Dani Greer >|> ---- >|> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >|> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >|> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >| >| >| >|---- >|For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >|To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >|Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 16:17:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:21:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Point of contact at American Bevel? Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:20:10 -0700 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990422102010.00942100@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> Precedence: bulk Does anyone know the e-mail address of someone in power at American Bevel? I am aware of a security problem with their web site and have tried without success to notify them through their generic e-mail account. Thanks Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 16:22:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:56:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!g_ornate From: suresh krishnappa To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: about glass furnace Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:53:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr22.35352.0> Precedence: bulk i would like to get more informations about glass furnace.will it be possible for you to send catalogue and information which will help in building a gas or oil furnace. please email the information to g_ornate@yahoo.com or mail to ARUN CHANGAPPA 71/2, NAGASHETTY HALLI R.M.V 2ND STAGE, BANGALORE-560094 KARNATAKA INDIA _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 16:36:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:57:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: kwic.com!mnvve3 From: Garry & Linda McKenna To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Sal Amoniac Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:56:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19990422175641.0067233c@mail.kwic.com> Precedence: bulk Hi everybody. It seems to me that we had this discussion over a year ago on this list. If my memory serves me right, we were told that the fumes from the hot iron hitting the sal amoniac block is, if not poisonous, at least bad for us. You can break off a chunk of the block and dissolve it in water, when your iron gets really cruddy all you have to do is zap it quickly into the solution and like magic the iron is clean as new and the steam from this action is NOT injurious to your health. I cannot confirm or deny the health aspect of this but I do know that it cleans the iron tip in a flash. Hope this helps. Linda (who is now going to climb back into her lurk- mode and continue to listen, learn and sometimes smile a little!) GARRY & LINDA McKENNA TILLSONBURG ONT CANADA 519 842-9909 LINDA'S HOBBY: STAINED GLASS GARRY'S HOBBY: AMATURE RADIO CALL VE3MNV ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 18:04:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:21:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Point of contact at American Bevel? Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:20:10 -0700 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990422102010.00942100@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> Precedence: bulk Does anyone know the e-mail address of someone in power at American Bevel? I am aware of a security problem with their web site and have tried without success to notify them through their generic e-mail account. Thanks Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 18:10:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:56:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!g_ornate From: suresh krishnappa To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: about glass furnace Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:53:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr22.35352.0> Precedence: bulk i would like to get more informations about glass furnace.will it be possible for you to send catalogue and information which will help in building a gas or oil furnace. please email the information to g_ornate@yahoo.com or mail to ARUN CHANGAPPA 71/2, NAGASHETTY HALLI R.M.V 2ND STAGE, BANGALORE-560094 KARNATAKA INDIA _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 18:27:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:57:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: kwic.com!mnvve3 From: Garry & Linda McKenna To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Sal Amoniac Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:56:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19990422175641.0067233c@mail.kwic.com> Precedence: bulk Hi everybody. It seems to me that we had this discussion over a year ago on this list. If my memory serves me right, we were told that the fumes from the hot iron hitting the sal amoniac block is, if not poisonous, at least bad for us. You can break off a chunk of the block and dissolve it in water, when your iron gets really cruddy all you have to do is zap it quickly into the solution and like magic the iron is clean as new and the steam from this action is NOT injurious to your health. I cannot confirm or deny the health aspect of this but I do know that it cleans the iron tip in a flash. Hope this helps. Linda (who is now going to climb back into her lurk- mode and continue to listen, learn and sometimes smile a little!) GARRY & LINDA McKENNA TILLSONBURG ONT CANADA 519 842-9909 LINDA'S HOBBY: STAINED GLASS GARRY'S HOBBY: AMATURE RADIO CALL VE3MNV ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 18:31:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:57:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: glass@bungi.com, Suzanne Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:34:43 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.33443.0> References: <<1999Apr22.34116.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk > How many parents are that intune to their kids? How many of your > parents were perfect? How many of you always had great self esteems, > shared everything with your parents, didnt hide anything about your > self? Its too easy to blame the parents. These kids did know better. > call me old fashioned but thats just too easy of a cop out....biology can explain "tendencies" but dont you tell me that these kids were not displaying anti social behavior very early on in thier lives..dont you tell me they were citizen of the month until, boom, this happened.....I am quite sure they were behaving inappropriately as early as kindergarten....where were the parents and/or teachers then....did the parents want to blame the school and stick their heads in the sand and not nip the problem in the bud while they had a chance??? Or were the teachers just eager to pass the troublemakers along to someone else so they wouldnt have to deal with it??? Listen, my kid had some problesms with other kids and you better believe that we and her teachers were right on top of her letting her know that this behavior is NOT OK..and also in addition dealing with our own stuff to make us all healthier....I have rquit a bit of experience with observing troubled kids and let me tell you, I have yet to see a kid acting out who did not have problesm from home. I dont buy for a second that unhealthy kids can come from healthy families...I think sometimes the dysfunction is very very subtle...not obvious like drinking and beating...sometimes it can be neglect and refusal to set boundaries or confusing messages or parents wrapped up in their own compulsions who thereby ignore their kids needs ...and make no mistake discipline and boundaries and guidance are just as much needs as all those warm snugglies that the sensitive new age parenting experts like to pontificate about...dont get me wrong, hugs and cuddles are important, but you need more than that. I also think a lot of the families who "appear" to be nice normal families have some really sick dynamics going on....and denial runs deep.....I dont think there is such an animal as this perfectly healthy family who just "happens" to produce a serial killer...come on....children may have a biological tendency to be hotheads and I think some children are naturally more able to look at others feelings than others..but to have those personality traits lead to this sort of thing without other more controllable factors is nonsense....in a healthy family it is noticed at an early age if a child behaves in this manner and it is nipped in the bud...in an unhealthy family it is allowed to run free rein and perhaps even silently encouraged by the parents own behavior. A lot of these quasi experts out there...and thats what they are teaching in these nice expensive colleges today.....want us all to believe that no one can help anything because they were born that way......we all have to take responsibility for our own behavior and where the parents and society come in is failing to teach that message coupled with enough love and support that the child can recieve that message.....I dont give you two cents for most of those "parenting experts" out there, with the possible exception of John Rosemond.....then there is that nut Murray Strauss up in NH who thinks that all the ills of the world can be summed up by spanking...do you know how shabby his research is???? He went into prisons, concluded that all the prisoners were spanked and drew his conclusion from that. Well, lets do a little math here....all those prisoners were born in an era where virtually everyone was spanked so of course they would be too...DUH.....but then he goes babbling off to parenting magazines and who what all else and people just swallow it up because they are looking for easy solutions....wouldnt it be nice if it was as simple as spank/dont spank and then all will be just ducky...but its more about dealing with yourself and your own stuff and out of that will come healthier parenting and thats jsut a lot more scary and threatening than looking for some simple solution..... Just MHO Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 18:42:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:32:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Thu Apr 22 10:31:35 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr23.8935.0> Precedence: bulk Any one outside of New Jersey paid any attention to the trial of Sam Mansey (sp). His parents seemed more upset by his guilty plea than his murder of a 11 year old Eddie Werner. Think this is the first time the parents of the accused have appeared on network television and tried to make him look like a victim. As a parent I pray that I am not blind to my child's faults. At the same time I pray that I can see his virtues also and judge him fairly. What they told us as kids is true. It is much harder being an adult. Vic M. Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com -----Original Message----- From: Linda Jo Letscher [mailto:andor@ilnk.com] Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 9:46 AM To: bungi.com Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Katie, I agree we all have to be accountable for our deeds. I am ready and willing to take responsibility for everything I have done in my life. That being said..... but...... there is a common thread through serial killers, mass murders, school shooters that tends (not always) to lead back to by way of subtle signals things in the family. That is why when we are born parents are assigned (sort of a little thing God came up with), because kids need them. I the most recent cases around the country and right here in Jacksonville, when the information starts to come out there are things that were red flags. (A young girl was murdered here in Jacksonville, 3 days later the body was found under the killer/child's water bed. Mom said they didn't notice the smell of the decaying little girl, because they had birds, cats and animals in the house...... huh??? Dead body, 3 days, summer, and the adult in the household didn't notice anything odd. Please!, yes the kid did the deed but where were Mom and Dad when he lured the child into the house, beat and killed her, and then took his waterbed apart, put the body under and refilled the waterbed...... where?? It didn't happen in 10 minutes, it took time.) There are so many factors and no one is going to solve this issue, it is very complex. I think all of us talking about this on a glass page is our way of getting our pain over this out. We need to try somehow to make sense of something that no sense can be made of. The need to talk about it and express our hurt and pain. Linda Jo ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 18:44:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:02:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: SkinnyGal.Au.Com!SkinnyGal From: SkinnyGal@SkinnyGal.Au.Com To: Friend@public.com Subject: Slim Down Now!!! Summer Is Coming!!! Date: Thu, 25 Mar 99 11:50:06 EST Message-ID: <1999Mar25.16506.0> Precedence: bulk EAT! SLEEP!! And Still Lose Weight! No Joke! Need To Lose Weight Quick? Don't Have Time To Exercise? HERE'S YOUR ANSWER! And You Can Eat Like A Normal Person!! Introducing GUARANTEED WEIGHT LOSS FOR LIFE! How Confident Are We?... In 30 Days If You're Not Completely Satisfied With This System, Send The "Empty" Bottles Back For FULL Refund! This System Is So Effective, Test Subjects Typically Lose 10 - 15 Pounds of FAT in the FIRST MONTH! More Importantly, The Rebound Effect So Common With Other Forms Of Weight Loss Has Been Eliminated. You Have 30 DAYS To Try The Products At Wholesale Prices Here is what just two people had to say (and there are many more): Sharon H., female, age 44, Real-Estate agent, Atlanta, GA. "I've lost 23 pounds in four weeks and 2 dress sizes and my husband has lost 15. Stanley K., male, age 41, Pittsburgh, PA. "These products are amazing! Not only have I lost 15 pounds in first month, my energy level is high and consistent throughout the day. For FREE, No Obligation Information Call Toll FREE: 1-888-668-0615 Due to the overwhelming response, you may get a busy signal. If you do call 1-888-841-6242 OR 1-800-242-0363 ext. 2480 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 18:50:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:05:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" Subject: Recycling glass Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:03:05 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.435.0> Precedence: bulk If you can load this site you have the potential to learn more about recycling waste glass than any one person knows. This is must reading for greenheads. Bob http://www.cwc.org/briefs/glass.html Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 18:58:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:08:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pacbell.net!midgie From: midgie To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NON GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 09:10:32 -0800 Message-ID: <1998Dec11.11032.0> References: <<1999Apr22.43310.0>> Organization: Nonsense Precedence: bulk I think parents are 100% responsible - parents and any other influences in a young childs life! We are all a product of our conditioning and never go far afield from that! For most of us our freedom to act is confined within those boundries and beyond a certain age the tree cannot be bent! That's not to say that parents are necessarily guilty (tho some surely are) for their actions are grounded in their own conditioning, their parents in theirs and so on - It's a multigenerational problem....What I see in this is an obvious degeneration of our species...like an apple that has fallen from the tree! It's very sad! When you add to this the cultural, social, economic and media equation (which is also a result or our over-all degeneration) reinforcing that negative conditioning....it's no wonder that such things happen and are escalating. There are a lot of screwed up people in this screwed up culture - passing it on doubly to their kids.... and (when they have the power) to the system itself! Of course no one is perfect - but as long as a parent has genuine LOVE, understanding. empathy and responsibility for their child and accept him/her as a major part of their life.....such problems never arise. Only this attitude will bring about happy, healthy and productive human beings. Of course too many are not capable of that!! Sociopaths are created - not born! Those who say otherwise are either in denial or self-justifying! (IMHO) Scooting back into lurkerdom..... Midgie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 19:02:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:19:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!slsheldon From: "Sharon Sheldon" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 14:23:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.10238.0> References: <<3.0.5.32.19981004080435.007cd6f0@pop3.iag.net>> Precedence: bulk Hi All, Judy Campbell wrote: > Seems today alot of parents are afraid to discipline their > children. Until we get discipline back in the homes and schools we will > always have problems. What alot of parents don't realize is children not > only need but want discipline. Sound the trumpets! She's right! Hey Judy - ya wanna run for public office?... Sharon Northern VA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 19:06:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:21:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: glass@bungi.com, daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:59:47 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.35947.0> References: <<1999Apr23.53454.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano wrote: > > Anyone remember that it is also the anniversary of a fire in a little town > called Waco? > If memory serves me the Okla. city bombing occurred on the second > anniversary of Waco. > > Of course no innocents died in that one. Everything must have been handled > properly since most of the higher ups involved were promoted. > > Vic M. who promises to get over it all by Friday. > Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com > > > > How many of you realized that this week marked the > > 4 year anniversary of the Okla. city bombing. > > > ---- > is anyone else aware that it is now coming out that these things all occured on Hitlers birthday and that is believed to be significant??? Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 19:15:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:23:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: Citadel.edu!HILLEKER From: HILLEKER@Citadel.edu To: glass@bungi.com Subject: NON GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:18:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr22.111810.0> Precedence: bulk I was not going to comment on this thread, but right after I read Linda Jo's eloquent note: >I agree with you. I am really sorry about the "stuff" with your son, but >the parents of the other kids ARE the reason for the problem. You know I >think parents of some of these off the wall out of control sorry excuses for >kids are afraid of their own children. My best friend has a dirt bag son >that she defends >to the death, early on it was all his teachers were against him, then all >his bosses are against him, all his co workers and so on. The parent is in >denial and she just can't see that her son is the bad guy, not the teachers >or the bosses or whatever. this story came over the wire: ----------- JACKSONVILLE, Fla. (AP) - Five boys, ages 12 to 16, have been charged with raping a mentally retarded 21-year-old neighbor while the youngsters' relatives were away at church. The woman, described by police as having psychological problems and the mind of a 10- to 15-year-old, told police she went to visit her neighbor Luellen Turner on Friday night and was raped by four boys as a friend watched. Turner is the grandmother and great-grandmother of the four boys. She said they are innocent. "Why she said it I don't know. Those boys didn't do anything," Turner said Wednesday. All five boys were held at a detention center on charges of sexual assault. ------------- It *IS* the adults who don't control their kids who are at fault. Russ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 19:16:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:31:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!charles_spitzer From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: NG It can happen anywhere Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:27:16 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990422122716.018bab80@atlas2.az.stratus.com> References: <<"1999Apr22.16939.0*"@MHS>> Precedence: bulk last time i looked, i was in the US and i assume you are also. if no laws were broken, then exactly what do you want done with this kid? innocent until proven guilty, and all that tommyrot. if you don't like the laws we have, you can either work to get them changed, or leave the country for somewhere else. writing to everyone telling them you're scared isn't the solution. if you aren't willing to work to have things changed, and have ideas on what to change, and what to change them to, then you don't have a say in the matter. the old saying: 'be afraid of what you wish for, you might get it' comes to mind. there are plenty of countries in the world where it is illegal to own a gun, i certainly wouldn't want to live in them, and if you asked their populations, they don't either. regards, charlie phx, az At 12:09 PM 4/22/99 -0400, you wrote: >I have to come out of lurkerdom to add my 2 cents. I live in a little >hick town pop. less than 6000. A few years ago a young man (who always >wheres a trenchcoat) blew his hand off making a homemade bomb in his >basement. I think he was 15 at the time. When the police investigated >and searched his home they found all kinds of paraphenalia that could >produce bombs, nazi crap and baseball bat that had burned into it "Fag >Killer". It turned out he was the head of the local neo-nazi group. >Guess what his dad said about all of it? "Boys will be boys!!!" Yes the >parents need to take some responsibility for their children! This kid >who has a hook for a hand now went back to school, no criminal charges >were enforced because it was an accident at home and technically he >didn't commit any crimes. My friends husband is on the school board and >he said the other night that they had to let him back in school even >though the majority of the student population was scared to death of him. > When I see him walk past my house or see him down on main street hanging >with his friends I shutter. What is happening about him and his friends? > NOTHING!!! Maybe blowing his hand off was a wake up call and saved >others from him in the future who knows. But my point is his damn father >didn't do a thing about him. Parents must get involved. Schools must >support them, politicians must support the schools and on and on but up. >It starts with us! Mothers Against Drunk Driving is now in every state >in our country and it started out as one pissed off mother. We need >mothers and fathers to be pissed off and do something. >Write to the NRA and let them know how you feel. www.NRA.com. They have >a section titled Contact Us. Let them know that we are afraid. If we as >adults are afraid I can't imagine what the children are feeling. I don't >have any but I am a teacher, we are on spring break this week. But >hopefully next Monday every teacher will be talking to the kids about >what to do and let them share their fears! We want to feel safe. >Okay I've said enough. Write your politicians, write everyone, let them >know how you feel. > >Caren > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 19:22:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:33:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ll.mit.edu!cogen From: David Cogen To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: ng - Shooting Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:30:49 -0400 Message-ID: <199904221922.PAA27871@ll.mit.edu> References: <<1999Apr22.41811.0>> Precedence: bulk I cannot resist contributing to this discussion, even though I am usually a strong opponent of any off-topic discussion in groups like this. Just remember: It is OK not to have children! If only people who really really really wanted children, we'd have far better children. Not to mention solving this horrible population explosion which is destroying the planet, not to mention quality of life. Too many parent are parents "by default". Either they become parents "by accident" or they "decide" to become parents because it never occurred to them that they dont' have to! How can they hope to be good parents if they didn't really really really want to be parents? DavidC (Childless and proud of it!) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 19:23:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 14:13:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: scci.net!melissah From: Melissa Hall To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: NG Meiyers/Briggs Test Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:10:25 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19990422171025.0069e70c@scci.net> References: <<199904221120.HAA24423@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk Hi all, After all of that thread about personality tests last month I was really surprised today to receive a Meiyers Briggs (sp?) personality test that I had to take before I go on a company retreat next month. All I could think about was to rush home and email the glass group! It was fun to do it with this group, but I'm a tad paranoid of what my company would do with one of these tests! Melissa ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 19:30:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:49:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: One last comment Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:25:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.122533.0> Precedence: bulk After deep consideration this morning, I have decided that my involvment and contribution to bungi is no longer time well- spent for me. I will continue to = monitor the forum in my role as IGGA board member, but I choose not to participate. My energy will instead go into writing for Common Ground: Glass and teaching stained glass at a local = community college the next two semesters. I am also considering = writing a book entitled, "Traditional Stained Glass Methods - The Tried and True", but only time will tell if that should manifest. I have made many good friends here on bungi and, of course, we will stay in touch. In the meantime, blessings to all of you. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 19:35:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:49:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stainedglassartists.com!Pam From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: Glass Talk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Hot Glass Info Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:14:52 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.61452.0> Organization: Stained Glass Artists/MM Ltd. Precedence: bulk Hi all forgive me sending this to both lists at the same time but it was easier. O.k. today I received an e-mail from Popovic. He needs some hot glass info. It seems as if he thinks I have written a book on hot glass. Ba Ha Ha! He wants to build a glory hole if my terminology is correct. Here is his e-mail and if anyone can help this man I would appreciate it. I believe he is from Yugoslavia. He sure is eager for info. I could have directed him to the hot glass lists but if anyone has info that they can send him that would be nice. Bob D how about it, any info you can send to Popovic? From: Zoran Popovic To: ptap@pacifier.com hello my name is popovic zoran and l am from montenegro(yes,THAT montenegro), and l have appeal for you. l want to make furnice of glass,but l dont know how l can build it. l will be very greatefull if you send me some zip. file (scean some part of your book) this is very important to me becouse l will be first person in my country who will blow glass . thanks anuway regards from montenegro zoran popovic -- ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://www.stainedglassartists.com/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 19:39:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 14:17:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Thu Apr 22 14:16:26 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr23.115426.0> Precedence: bulk Fair Warning: I'm getting back on my soapbox but am a little calmer this time. Part of the problem is that we don't hear enough about the parents that do take time with their kids or the kids who take the time to do good. If the news gets a story about a group of kids helping senior citizens it's "human interest" and saved for filler on a slow news day. If the kids beat up the seniors it may run depending on how many ended up in the hospital. If they kill main and mutilate the seniors .... It bleeds, it leads!!!! Shortly after we moved into our house our neighbors daughter, Heather, and her friend scratched their names into the wall of our house while waiting for the bus. When Heather's mother, Donna, was shown what had happened she told me I was not to clean or paint the wall. Her daughter did it and her daughter would damn well fix it. The next day Heather and her friend were washing down the wall. (The friends mom said her daughter could never do such a thing but "allowed" her daughter to help Heather.) Then Heather had to apologize to my wife and I and promised never to do it again. I felt like such an adult. The story isn't news worthy. Not even as filler. But it does remind us there are caring parents out there who will call their children to task. One more and it's off the soapbox. My son Ryan was given a UNICEF box at Sunday school before Halloween. (For our non US contingent: these are orange boxes that you take trick-or-treating and ask people to put money in. The money goes to the United Nations Children's Fund.) Since Ryan was 3 and only going to about 5 houses we just threw some change in the box and explained to Ryan what it was for. Ryan like most kids likes money. When he is given some or he finds it in the street he holds on to it till he can put it safely in his piggy bank at home. Woe to the person who tries to take it from him. The Sunday after Halloween we were taking the boxes back to Sunday school. In the church parking lot Ryan found 15 cents. He picked it up looked at my wife and with a big grin said, "Mommy, I find money!". He held the money looked at us and asked "I put money in box for children?" It was at that moment I knew what it meant to be proud of your child. Again it is not news worthy and aside from friends not of much interest. But in a time when the world has run amok it does give us a reason to hope. Vic M. Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com I like this soapbox more than the last one! :-) -----Original Message----- From: Sharon Sheldon [mailto:slsheldon@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 12:25 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Hi Folks, I've been lurking when it comes to stained glass talk (new hobby of mine) but I've sat here shaking my head "yes" over too many of these posts not to chime in. I am very curious as to how these boys' parents will react to what's happened. I haven't heard anything yet. I'm going to relay something that I feel is both telling and horrifying about the mindset of some parents today. This is from memory so if someone knows this situation and I have a fact or two out of sequence, I apologize. You can probably find an accounting of this at washingtonpost.com Back in '97 there was a particularly gruesome murder of a 17 year old boy in suburban MD (torture, dismemberment, set on fire, etc.). When they tracked down the boys who were responsible for this, it turns out that one of the boys' father helped him hide from the police, even to the point of talking to the boy (who had fled the state) via pay phones so the police wouldn't know, and in my opinion, hindered the investigation further by paying for an airline ticket to send this son (MONSTER?) to Israel and then dispatched another older son to NY to pick up the son's car and drive it back to MD and park it at a local airport to throw off the scent. Here's the rub -- the father had been born in Israel and according to their law, children born of Israeli nationales carry automatic dual citizenship. Extradition of this human scum was going to be a nightmare, if it was to happen at all. Over the following months, the parents of this 'child' sold their home and moved to Israel (BTW, Pop had renounced his Israeli citizenship in the 50's but that didn't seem to matter...) to help the son fight extradition to the US. The older brother who drove the car back to MD apparently was sickened by the entire episode and is helping the authorities. The other boy who was involved went to jail and hung himself in his cell the night before he was to be arraigned on the murder charge. Regarding the other gem, the Israelis decided not to extradite him and he'll begin his trail in May over there. While I'd prefer to not spend my tax money clothing, feeding and providing cable TV to such a child, I can sympathize with the parents of the child who was murdered. I'd want my day in court in the US, not in Israel where he will not receive the same severe punishment. They are all thumbing their noses at us! When I was a teenager, one of my older brothers skipped school to spend a day drinking beer with another friend. He did it once. He did it twice. The third time my parents had a police officer come to the house and lean on him that school was better than juvenile hall. A similar thing happened to my nephew when he was 15 and my brother (not the same one) did a similar thing. Although I believe most parents love their children more than anything else, the ultimate love is making them pay for mistakes that they make in life. No one learns anything if parents can network or grease the palms to make these mistakes go away. Especially these horribly violent ones. I'm sorry, I love my son and would give my life for his. BUT...if he did something illegal, there are laws and he must pay the penalty. Society must take a stand. Remember the caning of that American boy in Singapore a few years ago? All of the folks in the US were appalled. It's my recollection that when he came back to the US, he continued to be a big pain in the ass. They should have let him get all his whacks! Does anyone remember? Well, I'll tuck my soapbox away for now. Stay at home Moms (one of which I am), working Moms -- it's not who does what or how we provide for the children, it's the values we teach them (WHICH COST US NOTHING BUT TIME) and the strings that are attached to them as they mature. And we are their role models. If I can buy my way out of a jam it teaches my children that the only important thing in life is NOT GETTING CAUGHT. Just my 2 cents. Sharon in Northern VA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 19:39:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:06:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:14:40 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.101440.0> References: <<371F5DB3.1C36@ior.com>> Precedence: bulk > A lot of these > quasi experts out there...and thats what they are teaching in these nice > expensive colleges today.....want us all to believe that no one can help > anything because they were born that way...... They dont just make the stuff up as they go, Elizabeth. Even at the cheap colleges. No one said that anyway. What it comes down to is a 15 yr old knows right from wrong. He knows murder is wrong. He *Chose* to kill. T Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 19:45:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:08:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: NG...The Making of a sociopath Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:08:25 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.10825.0> Precedence: bulk Someone asked "isnt there a way to identify someone that will be a sociopath?" Yes, there is.... The latest to be identified are the "crack babies".... You might want to start figuring out how to handle those. Cocaine when used by your mom while your brain is developing tends to destroy the pleasure and pain receptors of the brain. They dont have the ability to feel love, joy, or sorrow. Isnt *that a bummer? Tulsa Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 19:50:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:00:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Sharon in N .Va.... Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:01:02 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.1412.0> Precedence: bulk Bravo Sharon... your 2 cents are worth a million in my book , I was taught , as were my children, you are responsible for your own actions! Abbie in Va. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 19:56:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:35:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stmassociates.com!shigbee From: "Shari Higbee" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: ng - Shooting Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:39:26 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.103926.0> Precedence: bulk > >One more thing (sorry about the long post). There are going to be >lawsuits filed; probably the first one is already on its' way. The >school will be sued for not having adequate protection, the parents of >the murderers, and possibly even EMS personnel, hospitals, doctors, good >samaritans ( I know about the good samaritan law), and if they find out >where the materials for the bombs were purchased, another one. This is >a litigious society after all. I hope I'm wrong. IMHO. > >Carol T > We had the schizophrenic man shooting people in downtown SLC last week. His family said yes, we knew he was sick, but he wouldn't take his medication, what could we do...? As of today, the family has filed a lawsuit against the State Health Dept--I guess it's the State's fault he wouldn't take his medicine... You gotta love this trend of placing blame and suing the hell out of everyone else... Next it will be the pharmaceutical company's fault for making medications that require regular dosages... Sorry--I'll stay quiet on this one now... Shari (looking for someone to sue) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 20:00:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:50:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!RmsGlass From: RmsGlass@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Point of contact at American Bevel? Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:44:06 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr22.23446.0> Precedence: bulk Dick Ashoff is president and phone number is (714) 440-0157. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 20:06:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:25:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: enterprise.net!robertcbullock From: "Robert. C. Bullock." To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Sal Amoniac Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 01:22:03 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr23.2223.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE8D27.B1C262A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Cindy. I'm new to Bungi and have seen many questions regarding Sal Amoniac. I = have been working full time at stained glass for twenty years, and have = been using Oleic Acid as a flux now for many years, and have found it = much better than Sal Amoniac or any other. I occasionally resilver the tip of my iron using a Sal Amoniac block but = I always use a fine wire brush to clean the tip as I am using it. I = never use fluid Sal Amoniac, the fumes are just too much. My work is new and renovation, and renovation work can take its toll on = the tip but I have just renewed the tip of my iron after three years of = constant use - and saved the old one as a spare - so I must be doing = something right. It's important to try and keep the tip clean as you use it and gentle = wire brushing as the work proceeds does not desilver the tip and helps = to keep the work flowing at a pace. I never file the tip down to the = copper. If you do this and use Sal Amoniac to resilver it will corrode = and eat away at the tip and the tip will require constant attention. Good ventilation is always important whatever flux or tip cleaning agent = you use and it is relatively easy to rig up an extractor fan using an in = line fan and tumble dryer hose. I am a bit behind with technological inovations here and am very = traditional but I hope this helps. Regards, Robert. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE8D27.B1C262A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Cindy.
I'm new to Bungi and have seen many = questions=20 regarding Sal Amoniac. I have been working full time at stained glass = for twenty=20 years, and have been using Oleic = Acid as a=20 flux now for many years, and have found it much better than Sal Amoniac = or any=20 other.
I occasionally resilver the tip of = my iron using=20 a Sal Amoniac block but I always use a fine wire brush to clean the tip = as I am=20 using it. I never use fluid Sal Amoniac, the fumes are just too=20 much.
My work is new and renovation, and = renovation=20 work can take its toll on the tip but I have just renewed the tip of my = iron=20 after three years of constant use - and saved the old one as a spare - = so I must=20 be doing something right.
It's important to try and keep the = tip clean as=20 you use it and gentle wire brushing as the work proceeds does not = desilver the=20 tip and helps to keep the work flowing at a pace. I never file the tip = down to=20 the copper. If you do this and use Sal Amoniac to resilver it will = corrode and=20 eat away at the tip and the tip will require constant = attention.
Good ventilation is always important = whatever=20 flux or tip cleaning agent you use and it is relatively easy to rig up = an=20 extractor fan using an in line fan and tumble dryer hose.
I am a bit=20 behind with technological inovations here and am very traditional but I = hope=20 this helps.
Regards,
Robert.
------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE8D27.B1C262A0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 20:07:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:25:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Shirley's List" , Subject: Re: about glass furnace Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:24:05 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.10245.0> Precedence: bulk Suresh, This may not be the best site for getting info on kiln building. I am sending some info on building a large electric kiln but much of the info pertains to smaller kilns. Do a web search on ceramics. Those guys are heavy into building gas kilns......Bob Text of message sent to me by Sundog: Bob..... It's easier than you might think. But, it's still a lot of work. I spent about a month almost full time. I had to learn a lot. I called kiln people and reps, refractory suppliers all over, etc. The result is that it works well. It's what you call a 'bell' kiln. The top and sides are all one unit that cranks up to the ceiling by use of a hand crank winch leaving the base accessible on all sides for setups. I am using 3" of solid fiber insulation with a hard dense board on the inside facing. The outside is contained with a solid sheetmetal case, held by 1" angle stock. Try to keep the fiber insulation contained, as it is especially nasty stuff. The insulation is attached to these sides using stainless steel bolts and s.s. fender washers too. The base is 2" angle stock filled with firebrick. A kiln-shelf this size is a big problem though. I tried a bunch of expensive refractory boards and succeeded only in warping them all. My workable max size is 25" x 55". A good tip is to run the elements inside of quartz tubing.... it stays straight and well supported. The element supplier worked out the math using my size and heat needs, and I run it with a Paragon digital controller as well, with 6 ramp/soak settings. The oft-overlooked Paragon controller is very user friendly, totally reliable, and cost effective. Check it out! This kiln is a smaller version of one I saw once that was about 36 x 84" inside. That one needed a motorized hoist to lift, as well as a huge room to have it in. Annealing times tend to become epic at that size and glass handling becomes serious at this scale too. One hot tip would be a material called ' Ultra-felt ' from Kaowool. I got a roll 24" x 300" x 1/10" and like to fire on it because it will last for a long time compared to 'paper' like fiberfrax which disintegrates shortly. Ultrafelt is woven of longer fibers and uses NO awful chemical binder like papers.... hence, it retains strength after being fired! In fact it only becomes 'old' after being compressed with a rolling pin so many times that it no longer allows the trapped air to escape through the weave and you start to get glass blowouts. Designs can even be impressed into it, though shortening it's life. I spent a bit over $2,000 to do it myself, and my refractory supplier was impressed. He said it was as good as any he'd seen that cost $10,000......... well, such flattery! Anyway I hope that helps. Some other details may be forthcoming if I let it gel in my head a while. ..... another thought. The kiln 'floor' is firebrick, yes, sitting on 1/8" sheetmetal supported by 1" sq. tubing welded crossways. Note here that this 'floor' must be cut into smaller pieces of steel that are free to float on the 1" tubing. Otherwise you will find (as I did ) that the floor will buckle then re-flatten with heating + cooling due to uneven heat distribution....... the edges of the sheet are simply insulated more than the middle just by the nature of the design. The solid sheetmetal exterior skin is intended to minimize the extremely irritating refractory fibers escape into MY air supply. They are a carcinogen, as well as far more irritating to the throat + lungs than silica dust. Be especially aware and cautious about these fibers when separating fiber paper or Ultrafelt from newly fired glass as well. The cough they cause is just awful, and persistent. I gave all of the steel a coat of silver 'Hammerite' paint for a clean appearance. I also wired a separate nichrome element around the perimeter at floor level to aid edge-heating/annealing of large pieces, but it isn't really necessary at this size if I just program a long anneal specific to the actual glass requirements I'm firing. A good part of my expense was the welding I subbed out to a pro I use for lamp + firescreen fabrication.... which was around $700 as I recall, including the steel itself. The digital controller was extra, bringing my actual total cost to around $2,400 or so......... by memory ( more Ginko please). This seems quite cost effective now, when I price what GL-22's go for in 1999 Best of luck if you give it a go..... it'll be worthwhile! Jacques Bordeleau Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. -----Original Message----- From: suresh krishnappa To: glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, April 22, 1999 4:42 PM Subject: about glass furnace > > > > > i would like to get more informations about glass > furnace.will it be > possible for you to send catalogue and information which will help in >building a gas or oil furnace. > please email the information to g_ornate@yahoo.com > > or mail to > > ARUN CHANGAPPA > 71/2, NAGASHETTY HALLI > R.M.V 2ND STAGE, > BANGALORE-560094 > KARNATAKA > INDIA > > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 20:10:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:01:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Windows and acid rain? was RE: Window treatments Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:44:53 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr22.234453.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/21/99 1:26:36 AM, glassgiraffe@earthlink.net writes: >Glass is NOT the impervious material that some >make it out to be. Just check out the 'rain spots' on your windshield. >They don't come off do they? I dunno about you, but most of the spots on *my* windshield are (or were) suicidal instects........ But seriously folks..... I had been under the impression that a lot of "regular window glass" is somewhat softer than art glass and therefore more susceptible to acid rain. OTOH, I also found when I cleaned my windows last spring that a lot of what I had thought was etching was actually cruddy mineral residue. Most of that came off fairly easily with Glass Wax. In fact, I was amazed at just how clean I was able to get those windows. Admittedly the house isn't old - it's only 40 - but the windows probably hadn't ever had that kind of cleaning, and good old Windex (which I'd used the year before) wouldn't even touch the residue. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 20:20:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:23:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE: NG-SHOOTING Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 02:21:19 +0000 Message-ID: <199904230123.BAA21453@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hi All, This whole tragic event has filled the first pages of most of the newspapers Across The Pond also. My heart and thoughts went out to the victims' families.... I just hoped none of my Bungi friends would be directly affected.. I hardly dared to ask........ The second Swedish national anthem was written by a wise old priest of the Middle Ages. It starts: "Freedom is the best thing on Earth, but you may have to search for it across the world and never acquire it; because freedom has to be EARNED, not handed on a plate. I am grown up very much with the ethos that "my freedom ends, where that of someone else begins" (and vice versa). carrying hand guns is not part of that ethos or philosophy, nor is making them accessible to children (which these 2 lads were, after all). I find the whole "gun-culture" very frightening, threatening and certainly not Life-enhancing, and no matter what argument is proffered to me, I find it difficult to accept, understand or reconsile that it is anybody's RIGHT to walk around, carrying an implement designed and made to kill another human being. Some years ago, the son of a close (Swedish) friend of mine was jilted by his girlfriend (she was 18 - he was 17). His mother and father had just departed on a holiday in France, his elder brother had just got married and was away on honeymoon abroad. James went and hanged himself from the tall roof-timbers at the family home; I was called out in the middle of the night by the remaining brother who was himself only 20 at the time. I had to cut James down from the roof timbers, call the doctor, holding vigil for 3 days 'n 3 nights by his body until I could trace the mother and father in a remote village in the South of France, the only telephone existing in the village Bistro...... The hurt, the pain, the questions and the suffering for all of us was immense and endured for a number of years afterwards. A consolation.... however disturbed poor James was..... at least he did not kill everybody else around him.... In Sweden, incidents like this just simply could not happen; in England we still remember the teacher who was killed outside the school premises by one of two rivalling gangs of youths, when he went to mediate in an argument....hence occurances on this scale in a school is horrendeous and still - thank God - unthinkable. The incidents a couple of years ago of when a mentally deficient middle-aged man held a school to ransom and killed children and a teacher, STILL creates shock-waves in UK. I pray that you folks in USA will somehow find a way to erradicate this kind of "gun culture".... I also pray and hope it will never, ever reach the shores of either England or Sweden, EVER!! News over here mention 23 dead, 23 injured and the lads then killed themselves while roaring with laughter..... Your strange gun-laws means that 2 lads had the freedom to arm themselves to the teeth and playing out a killing scene that has ended or affected the lives of those 46 people, add to that the utter misery , and THEIR right to freedom imposed on and suffered by the additional number of 92 mothers 'n fathers and another (maybe) 92 siblings, 2 sets of grand-parents = say....150 people, cousines.....100, maybe??? friends..... 100...maybe???, classmates... their family.... teachers...? their families....?? OK, let's be conservative and call it 1,000 people DIRECTLY involved in this horrendeous tragedy. What about THEIR freedom?? What about their RIGHTS?? Why is it such a big deal to BAN A L L guns handed out left, right and centre, but NOT a big deal to - by any and all means - guard, protect and respect the most fundamental RIGHT of ALL - the RIGHT to Life ??? What sort of society do we live in, that we don't take steps to detect, uncover and diffuse youthful extremisms - such as neo-nazism and racism , to re-direct youthful anger, energies, excesses into far more productive and creative areas; a society that cannot inculcate respect, reverence and humility about Life and about fragility of Life.... and that it is not OUR right to dictate onto others - certainly not to terminate Life at will , whim or twisted pleasure. I just do not understand. I am even quite amazed at Charlie's posting below; not because of Charlie, but because it's a philosophy that people accept as OK; yet it sort of goes against the grain about all that Life is supposed to be about. I KNOW we do not live in an ideal world..... but that's no reason to kill.... I'm immensely saddened by yet another pointless, senseless , crazy massacre in a "nurturing environment". Kids becoming DE-sensitized??..... yes, well.... Many thoughts to you all, from a totally pacifist, not very happy, and totally anti-gun Elisabeth 'n subdued Toby in UK Charlie wrote: hear hear. in phoenix, we have a concealed handgun law that allows, after some 50 hours of training, one to carry, along with a law that says someone can carry if it's not concealed. we also have a surprisingly low rate of bank robberies. could someone, trained in firearm use, have ended yesterday's problem more quickly? another data point: about 5 weeks ago, a phoenix high school student, after seeing the movie 'october sky' brought in a homemade rocket into school. it being found (gee, that looks awfully like a pipe bomb, said the principal) he was expelled. after national and international uproar by the media, he was reinstated in school just yesterday. anyone note the similarities between the 2 problems? another odd note: my wife is an 7-8th grade journalism teacher. her topic for the last week is 'violence in the media-it's impact on today's society'. she said that today, it was like it never happened. the kids are so desensitized to hearing about this kind of occurrance, that it doesn't bother them. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 20:29:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:42:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: steve@villagesoftsmith.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: RE: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:37:35 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr23.13735.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/22/99 3:10:07 AM, steve@villagesoftsmith.com writes: >Amazing...at what point does contempt of court kick in when Starr isn't >involved? > >Steve That's what *my* enquiring mind wants to know......... Sparks (who knew how to make nitro at age 12 but no way would I have actually done it, I *like* having fingers, eyes, and friends!) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 20:43:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:00:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "bungi.com" Subject: Re: Slim Down Now!!! Summer Is Coming!!! Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:58:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.175826.0> Precedence: bulk Does this mean that the dear person that sent this could possibly think any of us could lose some weight. Oh please.... I really do hate this kind of doo doo...... crapola!!!! I am never dieting again until I need my knee replacement surgery. LJ -----Original Message----- From: SkinnyGal@SkinnyGal.Au.Com To: Friend@public.com Date: Thursday, April 22, 1999 9:44 PM Subject: Slim Down Now!!! Summer Is Coming!!! >EAT! SLEEP!! >And Still Lose Weight! No Joke! >Need To Lose Weight Quick? Don't Have Time To Exercise? >HERE'S YOUR ANSWER! >And You Can Eat Like A Normal Person!! > >Introducing >GUARANTEED WEIGHT LOSS FOR LIFE! > >How Confident Are We?... >In 30 Days If You're Not Completely Satisfied With >This System, Send The "Empty" Bottles Back For FULL Refund! > >This System Is So Effective, Test Subjects Typically >Lose 10 - 15 Pounds of FAT in the FIRST MONTH! >More Importantly, The Rebound Effect So Common >With Other Forms Of Weight Loss Has Been Eliminated. > >You Have 30 DAYS To Try The Products At Wholesale Prices > >Here is what just two people had to say (and there are many more): >Sharon H., female, age 44, Real-Estate agent, Atlanta, GA. "I've lost 23 pounds in four weeks and 2 dress sizes and my husband has lost 15. >Stanley K., male, age 41, Pittsburgh, PA. "These products are amazing! Not only have I lost 15 pounds in first month, my energy level is high and consistent throughout the day. >For FREE, No Obligation Information >Call Toll FREE: > >1-888-668-0615 > >Due to the overwhelming response, you may get a busy signal. If you do call >1-888-841-6242 >OR >1-800-242-0363 ext. 2480 > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 20:54:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:07:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stainedglassartists.com!Pam From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Hot Glass Info Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:05:09 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.1259.0> Organization: Stained Glass Artists/MM Ltd. Precedence: bulk Hi all I think I'm having e-mail probs today. Sent this out earlier and haven't see it come up yet so I'm sending again. O.k. today I received an e-mail from Popovic. He needs some hot glass info. It seems as if he thinks I have written a book on hot glass. Ba Ha Ha! He wants to build a glory hole if my terminology is correct. Here is his e-mail and if anyone can help this man I would appreciate it. I believe he is from Yugoslavia. He sure is eager for info. I could have directed him to the hot glass lists but if anyone has info that they can send him that would be nice. Bob D how about it, any info you can send to Popovic? From: Zoran Popovic To: ptap@pacifier.com hello my name is popovic zoran and l am from montenegro(yes,THAT montenegro), and l have appeal for you. l want to make furnice of glass,but l dont know how l can build it. l will be very greatefull if you send me some zip. file (scean some part of your book) this is very important to me becouse l will be first person in my country who will blow glass . thanks anuway regards from montenegro zoran popovic -- ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://www.stainedglassartists.com/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 21:02:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:17:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cyberbeach.net!dayle From: Dayle To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Glue Question Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:16:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.181623.0> References: <<1999Apr21.41038.0>> Organization: Celestial Luminosities Precedence: bulk I agree with Howard on this one. I've never used glue...just trace the pattern with a waterproof marker, cut as accurately as possible, then grind a little for a perfect fit. I've never had a problem doing it this way yet. Probably doesn't take as much time either. Howard wrote: > WHY?????? > Trace the pattern, cut it CLOSE to eliminate a LOT of grinding and then > grind it to fit.............. > I glue NONE of my pattern pieces! > Look at some of the pieces in a detailed shade, small aren't they? > With care they can be traced by holding them on the glass by hand, (errr > fingertip). > enjoy, H > > weaver51@teleport.com > Elaine and Howard > best lamps on the "net": > http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 21:38:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:07:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Dani Greer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: One last comment Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:03:58 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.17358.0> References: <<1999Apr22.122533.0>> Precedence: bulk What a way to end the day. Well, I'm ready to go for a good cry. :o( Some of us really do pay close attention to what you say, Dani. We also know it carries great value. I hope you consider me one of the people you'll be keeping in touch with. I appreciate all the help and encouragement you've given me since the day I joined Bungi! T Suz > After deep consideration this morning, > I have decided that my involvment and > contribution to bungi is no longer time > well- spent for me. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 22 22:35:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:01:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: NG-SHOOTING Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:00:11 -0700 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990422210011.0091c2c0@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> References: <<199904230123.BAA21453@saturn.nildram.co.uk>> Precedence: bulk At 02:21 AM 4/23/99 +0000, Elisabeth wrote: > >I just do not understand. >I am even quite amazed at Charlie's posting below; not because of >Charlie, but because it's a philosophy that people accept as OK; yet It's not a philosophy that I accept as OK. Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 23 00:59:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:11:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: Suzanne Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG...The Making of a sociopath Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:48:52 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.164852.0> References: <<1999Apr22.10825.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk > The latest to be identified are the "crack babies".... > > You might want to start figuring out how to handle those. > > Cocaine when used by your mom while your brain is developing tends to > destroy the pleasure and pain receptors of the brain. They dont have > the ability to feel love, joy, or sorrow. Isnt *that a bummer? > my understanding is some of these "crack babies" while learning impaired have done pretty damn well with loving foster parents...and btw...I didnt realize that Jeffrey Dahmer and Ted Bundy and Charles Manson were crack babies......I think there ARE some behavioral cues that these kids give off early on and I think by seeing how the family responds or doesnt respond when the kids begins to act out...I think you can make a fair guess...the one certifiable sociopath in my HS was acting very hostile at a very early age.brought knives to school in sixth grade at a time and place that was unheard of...now his mother was Miss Socialite, in fact (no kidding) she was my sunday school teacher...but I am willing to bet that they did not respond in a way to nip this in the bud. We are also very fortunate in that we know what we know now about family dysfunctions, dymanics and addictions that we did not know a generation ago..my own grandmother committed suicide and my mother refuses to believe that it was anything but a random occurance..these things do not occur in a vacuum....with the exception of organic brain diseases that have a certifiable biological base.....that where you see inappropriate behavior...you look in the family and you will find the roots...does not erase our responsibiltiy to transform what we have been given...but the way we are today is a product of our family of origin...unless and until we consciously intervene to change that. Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 23 01:07:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:43:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: glass@bungi.com, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG shooting Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:22:17 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.162217.0> References: <<371FCA69.13D4@ix.netcom.com>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk Suzanne wrote: > > Hi Elizabeth.. > > I just think it is too easy for people to condemn the parents of these > two boys, without having any of the facts about their families. > I wish as much as anyone we had easy answers. If we could prove the > parents were at fault, I'll jump on the band wagon. The responsibility > ultimately lies on the heads of those two boys. Unfortunately they > killed themselves so society doesnt get to spend our money on their > trials, housing them while on death row...etc..... > > I have 2 kids that I worry about who they may sit next to in class. > > Anyway...Not trying to start another cyber argument...I want answers > too. > > Suzanne > > > no, I see this a lot up where I live in Idaho...parents tucking their kids away homeschooling lest htey get sucked up by "bad influences" They think all they have to do is just hothouse their kid and their kid will be a "good" kid.....they dont realize that the very best thing they can do is deal with "their" stuff so that the sins of the fathers wont be passed on from generation to generation and to give their kid good moral guidance that they themselves are not hypocritical about...or they read parenting books thinking that if they do the "right" thing that their kids will be "good" kids, never realizing that once again, the best thing they can be doing is walking their own walk and paying heed to thier own garbage and cleaning it up. THEN they can think which "methods" might prove most fruitful. I dont even think it has anything to do with spanking..I know parents who swear by it and parents who feel they would sooner die than lay a hand on thier kids...people in both camps who have great kids and people in both camps who have problem kids...I dont think the spanking is it...I think its what the parents are doing with their own baggage....I am not saying it is intentional or planned or that the parents are bad people but you show me a kid acting out and I will show you a parent not dealing with some stuff they need to deal with. Basic family therapy premise....now if the kids starts acting out "a little bit" at school then maybe they are just being a kid...BUT if the family is unhealthy it will not be dealt with appropriately and if the family IS healthy it will be if not immediately then not too far up the line. All parents make mistakes...some of them big ones...and sometimes they dont realize them until a kid gets into trouble...granted this factoid can be turned around by teens and adults to dodge their own personal responsibility as in "hey, it was my parents fault so whaddya want me to do about it now....????" it is a sad fact that our parents create messes that the lucky kids get to clean up in thier own lives....what I am trying to do with my daughter it to give her the tools that I have found so that even the things I miss or inadvertantly pass onto her out of my own baggage, that wshe will take the responsiblity to deal with them. There is also no shame in seeking help if one needs it. If my daughter gets into trouble I will be first of all looking within myself to see what I may not be dealing with...I most certainly will not be blaming who she sat next to in third period study hall last semester....I am sorry but that sounds like a dodge and a blame rather than accepting responsibility for our own "stuff". Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 23 01:19:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:46:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: David Cogen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: ng - Shooting Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:24:46 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.162446.0> References: <<199904221922.PAA27871@ll.mit.edu>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk > Too many parent are parents "by default". Either they become parents "by > accident" or they "decide" to become parents because it never occurred to them > that they dont' have to! How can they hope to be good parents if they didn't > really really really want to be parents? > a fact: did you know that "most" (not all, but most) abused children were very very wanted??? I personally know a couple of adults with horrible abuse histories who were adopted...obviously adoption doesnt happen "by default" and I'd venture to guess that adopted children are wanted children. Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 23 01:33:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:28:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: Carol Tombro Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: ng - Shooting Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:05:57 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr22.16557.0> References: <<1999Apr22.41811.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk > The parents of the two murderers must have seen something abnormal in > the behavior of their sons, not only in their outlandish outfits which > in many cases is simply a matter of self expression, but in their > attitudes towards minorities and people who they thought were picking on > them. Also, did they not notice guns and homemade bombs around the > house? my point EXACTLY.....while I am not saying that these young people are not responsible for hteir own behavior; they most certainly are; it is also the job of the adults around children to notice things and shape and mold children around those character flaws which could have tragic results if left unchecked... Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 23 02:00:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 01:03:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: enterprise.net!robertcbullock From: "Robert. C. Bullock." To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Sal Amoniac. Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:00:26 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr23.10026.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BE8D67.BAD32420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I order it from my local chemist. It is the cheapest way and get it in = half litre bottles which last a long time. Must not keep it in too cold = conditions because it seperates out, Regards, Robert. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BE8D67.BAD32420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I order it from my local chemist. It = is the=20 cheapest way and get it in half litre bottles which last a long time. = Must not=20 keep it in too cold conditions because it seperates out,
Regards,
Robert.
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BE8D67.BAD32420-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 23 06:31:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 05:26:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ezl.com!stepsue From: Sue Prullage To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: NG-SHOOTING Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:08:21 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr23.1821.0> Organization: stainedglassdesign.com Precedence: bulk Well I wasn't going to get involved in this discussion, but here I go. I am deeply saddened by the event, and baffled on why it happened. I really don't believe we can say it is parents or society but really both. When we have a country that thrives on individual rights and argue with lawyers everytime we feel our rights are invaded why shouldn't a child feel they have the right to do anything they want. Yes there were more than small signs in these boy's homes that they were doing something wrong, such as books on bomb making, sawing and breaking of glass in the garage at all times of the day. The parents should have investigated and intervened but shouldn't the neighbors asked also? We love to blame people for bad things but we often don't do anything to prevent this things. It is proven by research that watching violence on TV affect our children, do we do anything? No we continue to go to movies and watch shows that promote this crap. Isn't it our God given right! Believe me I do not own a TV so when children are at my house they have to find other modes of entertainment, and believe me they do. My children are grown now, when I mention children coming over I mean my grandchildren. I also feel very strongly about gun control. Does anyone really need a semi-automatic weapon? Is hunting with this type of gun a sport or just for slaughter? I know I know it is our given right to carry this type of gun. In MO they almost passed a law that would allow people to carry concealled weapon into public places. Scarry. Would have changed road rage. As far as discipline goes. Yes everyone including adults need discipline, but why do we think that we need to hit a child to make it discipline? I did my masters research on discipline, they adults that I polled that were spanked felt demeaned and do not spank there children. Maybe that why we have had a whole generation of non-spanking parents they remember how it made them feel. We just have forgotten discipline can be in other forms and some just don't discipline at all. As an adult that works there are times we are disciplined and it changes are behavior, but we were not hit were we. Well my two cents worth, I am sure everyone that was involved in this well have scarrs for the rest of there lives. Especially the parents of the children and the killers. Instead of analyzing it maybe we should be looking at preventing. This usually means getting more involved in the community, and we all groan because we are too too busy. Sue from IL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 23 07:35:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 06:20:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!tifstyorig From: Diane W Manchester To: GreerStudios@compuserve.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: One last comment Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:21:37 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr23.52137.0> Precedence: bulk Dani, Count me in as one who will miss your postings. Perhaps you'll get the urge to check in every once in awhile.........thanks for your share of knowledge. Diane Manchester Tiffany Styled Originals Carthage, NC ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 23 08:13:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:18:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: One last comment Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 06:52:01 -0700 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk > > >I'm very sorry to hear this,... Dani you will be *missed* terribly. (me included of course) >I'll look forward to reading your Common Ground articles soon. But can't *we* talk you out of it!!!!!???? >Cindy. > >> > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 23 09:11:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:50:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: GreerStudios@compuserve.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: One last comment Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:18:16 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr23.141816.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/22/99 10:31:15 PM, GreerStudios@compuserve.com writes: >After deep consideration this morning, >I have decided that my involvment and >contribution to bungi is no longer time >well- spent for me. I will continue to >monitor the forum in my role as IGGA >board member, but I choose not to >participate. [...] Sounds like you've got enough on your plate for any three or four people. If you write that book, I'll buy a copy! In the mean time, do keep in touch! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 23 09:40:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:23:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Glass factories in WV Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:22:06 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr23.15226.0> Precedence: bulk A while back, someone (I forget who) was asking about glass factories in West Virginia. There's a map with links to 21 companies at: http://www.state.wv .us/tourism/glassfac/glassco.htm Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 23 10:16:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:25:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glshorse@ior.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG shooting Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:23:04 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr23.5234.0> References: <<37201199.55E3@ior.com>> Precedence: bulk > If my daughter gets into trouble I will be first > of all looking within myself to see what I may not be dealing with...I > most certainly will not be blaming who she sat next to in third period > study hall last semester....I am sorry but that sounds like a dodge and > a blame rather than accepting responsibility for our own "stuff". > Geeeze Elizabeth. I ONLY meant because they may have a frigging machine gun under their coat! Not that they might teach her something wrong to do, maybe they want to kill all the pretty blue eyed blonds that day. MY daughter HASNT done anything to blame ANYONE on! IM not in search of a scape goat. Tulsa Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 23 10:58:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:22:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!charles_spitzer From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: NG-SHOOTING Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:18:43 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990423091843.018f4450@atlas2.az.stratus.com> References: <<199904230123.BAA21453@saturn.nildram.co.uk>> Precedence: bulk At 02:21 AM 4/23/99 +0000, you wrote: > Your strange gun-laws means that 2 lads had the >freedom to arm themselves to the teeth and playing out a killing >scene that has ended or affected the lives of those 46 people, add to >that the utter misery , and THEIR right to freedom imposed on and >suffered by the additional number of 92 mothers 'n fathers and >another (maybe) 92 siblings, 2 sets of grand-parents = say....150 >people, cousines.....100, maybe??? friends..... 100...maybe???, >classmates... their family.... teachers...? their families....?? >OK, let's be conservative and call it 1,000 people DIRECTLY involved >in this horrendeous tragedy. >What about THEIR freedom?? What about their RIGHTS?? >Why is it such a big deal to BAN A L L guns handed out left, right >and centre, but NOT a big deal to - by any and all means - guard, >protect and respect the most fundamental RIGHT of ALL - the RIGHT to >Life ??? huh? our strange gun laws? the 2 children had already broken quite a few existing gun laws, such as minors having guns, buying guns, stealing guns, buying black powder, etc. they don't have the rights that you think they had. how would having additional laws prevented it, when they, or the adults that they asked, didn't pay attention to the existing laws? furthermore, some of the bombs were made from ordinary chemicals that are found in every household, along with a can of gas and a propane tank from a bar-b-que? are you proposing outlawing gas and bar-b-ques? regards, charlie phx, az ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 23 12:15:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:33:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: clientside-viennasys.com!sfairbairn From: Steve Fairbairn To: 'Bungi Mailing List' Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: NG - Quote Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:32:33 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr23.33233.0> Precedence: bulk This quote came across my desk today in another email and I couldn't resist passing it on the Bungi... People are like stained-glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is a light from within. -- Elizabeth = K=FCbler-Ross Steve Fairbairn Customer Support Manager=09 sfairbairn@clientside-viennasys.com =09 NOKIA IP TELEPHONY ClientSide Group 250 - 6651 Fraserwood Place Richmond, BC, Canada V6W 1J3=20 Tel: 604 214-7172 Fax: 604 214-7795 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 23 13:11:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:23:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: NG shooting Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:22:37 -0700 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990423112237.00942b60@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> References: <<371FCA69.13D4@ix.netcom.com>> Precedence: bulk At 11:22 PM 4/22/99 -0700, Elizabeth Arakelian wrote: >Suzanne wrote: >> >> Hi Elizabeth.. >> >> [clip] >> >> I have 2 kids that I worry about who they may sit next to in class. >> >> Anyway...Not trying to start another cyber argument...I want answers >> too. >> >> Suzanne >> > > > > [clip] >I most certainly will not be blaming who she sat next to in third period >study hall last semester....I am sorry but that sounds like a dodge and >a blame rather than accepting responsibility for our own "stuff". > Sorry if I'm stepping into the middle of something that should be private, but I didn't interpret Suzanne's comment as an attempt to "dodge" and "blame." I thought she was just saying, "It's hard to know who to trust these days." Maybe you could lower the intensity a little, Elizabeth? Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 23 13:36:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:04:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bobhere" , "Bungi" , Subject: Re: NG-SHOOTING Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:02:07 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr23.527.0> Precedence: bulk In Sweden, incidents like this just simply could not happen Oh please, most of have not seen the NEW documentary on the Vikings. Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 23 14:48:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:25:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: NG - Quote Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 16:32:38 +0000 Message-ID: <199904232024.QAA26967@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > People are like stained-glass windows. They sparkle and shine when > the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is > revealed only if there is a light from within. -- Elizabeth = > K=FCbler-Ross The problem is, of course, that it's the "light from without" in the case of stained glass windows. (Unless the building's on fire.) Otherwise, the sentiment's fine. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 23 15:42:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:20:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!mschatee From: mschatee@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: One last comment Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:18:04 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr23.21184.0> References: <<1999Apr22.122533.0>> Precedence: bulk Dani, I may not be an active participant on this list, but I am a regular, I read my bungi mail almost everyday and must say that you have been an important part of my glass education. I enjoy your posts and your insight about glass and non-glass subjects. If you were insulted by recent postings please consider that one persons actions or opinions need not affect the rest of us. The rest of us out here in Bungiland need you and want you to be an active participant. Please don't take that away from us! If you don't reconsider please know that although you and I have never actually communicated directly with each other I feel like I know you, appreciate and respect you. Thank you for all you have taught me, I will miss your wit and wisdom. Caren ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 23 18:37:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:28:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: NG - Quote Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:26:46 -0700 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Yeah it sounds nice BUT...hey there's always back lighting for glass when the sun is down. Now where to I stick light on me? In front or in back...don't answer this please, grin. Cindy...almost afraid to sign:) >> People are like stained-glass windows. They sparkle and shine when >> the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is >> revealed only if there is a light from within. -- Elizabeth = >> K=FCbler-Ross > >The problem is, of course, that it's the "light from without" in the >case of stained glass windows. (Unless the building's on fire.) > Otherwise, the sentiment's fine. > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 23 19:42:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:30:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netaxs.com!maruca From: maruca@netaxs.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: NG:another virus to plague windoze Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 21:28:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr23.172840.0> Precedence: bulk This is all over the news today, warning folks of this "space filler" virus. The web site listed below has good info and links to anti-virus programs. Good luck, Mary ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:48:25 -0400 Subject: Update your Virus DAT files today >From CNN: New virus strikes Monday Data-destroying Chernobyl virus called worse than 'Melissa' http://cnnfn.com/digitaljam/wires/9904/23/chernobyl_wg/ ************************************************************ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 23 21:11:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ghostman.com!candy From: "Candy Thurman" To: "glass@bungi.com" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: ng - Shooting Date: Fri, 23 Apr 99 20:12:55 Message-ID: <199904240313.VAA21310@mantis.privatei.com> Precedence: bulk Yeah, reading the papers and all.. I don't know why the parents never checked out the garage. The neighbors knew there was lots of noise and activity in the garage. Of course, they did it all in one day/afternoon, and maybe they saved the stuff for when the parents went somewhere for the day.. and remember, the bomb stuff was not specialized.. it was just pipe and wire and gasoline and propane and nails.. all stuff that's in just about anyone's garage. Candy On Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:05:57 -0700, Elizabeth Arakelian wrote: >> The parents of the two murderers must have seen something abnormal in >> the behavior of their sons, not only in their outlandish outfits which >> in many cases is simply a matter of self expression, but in their >> attitudes towards minorities and people who they thought were picking on >> them. Also, did they not notice guns and homemade bombs around the >> house? > > > >my point EXACTLY.....while I am not saying that these young people are >not responsible for hteir own behavior; they most certainly are; it is >also the job of the adults around children to notice things and shape >and mold children around those character flaws which could have tragic >results if left unchecked... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 23 22:15:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 21:52:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" Subject: Fw: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 21:49:32 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr23.144932.0> Precedence: bulk >I fully agree that parents rarely see the "other" side of their children. > >I also know that setting ground rules, such as you did with the unrully child at your >home, works. > >My point is that the shooters in this case will carry ALL the blame. Lord knows that >what they did is unforgivable in the just eyes of the law. I have absolutely no >interest in defending their horrable actions. > >I also say that there is a degree of responsibility on the part of the school staff >and the student body in general. Outcasts were created and a horrable vegenance was >exacted. In retrospect it would have been better if the outcasts were not created or >if created then properly dealt with. So, what I am saying is that placing the blame >solely on the shooters simply leaves in place the conditions that created the >problem. Not a good thing. > >If we get nothing more than school uniforms out of this then great value will have >been received. Anyway...........Bob > >Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 >Think glass: have class. > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 24 00:01:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 22:41:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: Bob E Duchesneau Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Fw: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 22:18:11 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr23.151811.0> References: <<1999Apr23.144932.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk > If we get nothing more than school uniforms out of this then great value will have > >been received. Anyway... WHAT??? I know you are kidding Bob..SCHOOL UNIFORMS??? what does that have to do with the price of tea in china??? I think the only time uniforms are relevent to violence is schools is in schools with a lot of gang violence(to eliminate the problem that a lot of the gang communication goes on via clothing) and violence motivated by a desire to steal "cool" clothing items owned by others( for obvious reasons) these were problems in the inner city Boston schools when I lived there and I can see where a case could be made for uniforms in schools like this. But the thing in Colorado..I dont know what clothing had to do with it..... as far as the outcast problem..I speak with authority hear becasue I was one of the most severe outcasts in my school..it would be really lovely if they could come up with a policy that no one is to be harrassed ever FOR ANY REASON...not just the most politically correct reasons to not hassle someone, but ANY reason whatsoever. However that still would not MAKE people befriend you....you can "make" students leave other students alone but you cannot "make" them include others in their inner circle. I know "why" I was ostracized, I have a pretty good hunch how my parents and teachers might have helped me integrate in better (which they did not do, not becasue they didnt care, because they did, very much so, but becasue quite honestly they were clueless) and yes, that might have eased the problem...but parental cooperation would have been pretty essential and even if you have the most on top of it teachers...if parents wont cooperate, nothing is really going to get solved in the end. I think when it comes to the issue of outcasts, you help kids develop their own worth and social skills to the best of their ability and if they are still not accepted then sometimes that is part of life, an unpleasant part, and you teach them to cope and deal, rather than taking it out on everyone. You also teach them that once they get beyond the narrow confines of high school that sometimes things have some very interesting ways of working out. There are kids who are outcasts just becasue they are different in some way and there are kids who are outcasts because they have not picked up social skills. Being outcast becasuet you are different is not a bad thing..it can turn into a great strength once you are out of HS...but if you are outcast because of poor social skills it will follow you forever until you deal with it. Granted parents cannot teach what they themselves do not have..but unfortuantly this lack of social grace can be part of that unpleasant legacy passed on.. Just my two cents Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 24 04:13:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 03:32:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: NG:another virus to plague windoze Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 06:39:40 +0000 Message-ID: <199904241032.GAA12405@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > This is all over the news today, warning folks of this "space > filler" virus. Thanks for the reminder, Mary. Since I run Norton Utilities, all I had to do was launch "Live Update" from its panel; the program went to Symantec's site, downloaded the antivirus update and installed it. Cool! Let me highly, highly recommend Norton Utilities. Since my box contains five hard drives and there's lots of stuff going on in there, given my work as a webmaster and print designer, not to mention my responsibilities as ExecDir of the IGGA, I'm both paranoid and anxious that I not lose data. Norton Utilities is a lifesaver! For $69, it's the best darned thing around! It tells me when it's encountered disk errors ... then fixes them! I've had a system crash ... and Norton Utilities restored the drives ... easily! (That alone was worth $69.) Day before yesterday, I was told one of the drives was almost full (because I've been manipulating very large image files, I guess); Norton found 550 Megabytes of *temporary files and I authorized their deletion ... result? 550 Mb of space, rather than the 42 Mb I thought I had. Very cool. Oh. I don't own stock in Symantec. This is an unbiased user's opinion only. Albert > >From CNN: > New virus strikes Monday > Data-destroying Chernobyl virus called worse than 'Melissa' > > http://cnnfn.com/digitaljam/wires/9904/23/chernobyl_wg/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 24 07:22:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 06:33:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netaxs.com!maruca From: maruca@netaxs.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: NG:another virus to plague windoze Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:32:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr24.53249.0> References: <<199904241032.GAA12405@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk One last geeky thing: if you are MAC person, don't even think about Norton Utilities is the word on the street. Info on the computerlists indicates that the MAC version of Norton has been nothing but major trouble (to the point of clean-installs!!). Luckily there are few virii written for MAC. Even more luckily, I can telnet to my ISP and read my mail through their UNIX based PINE program. Even few virii of UNIX. Good luck, folks. m On Sat, 24 Apr 1999, Albert Lewis wrote: > > > This is all over the news today, warning folks of this "space > > filler" virus. > > Thanks for the reminder, Mary. Since I run Norton Utilities, all I > had to do was launch "Live Update" from its panel; the program went > to Symantec's site, downloaded the antivirus update and installed it. > Cool! > > Let me highly, highly recommend Norton Utilities. Since my box > contains five hard drives and there's lots of stuff going on in > there, given my work as a webmaster and print designer, not to > mention my responsibilities as ExecDir of the IGGA, I'm both paranoid > and anxious that I not lose data. Norton Utilities is a lifesaver! > For $69, it's the best darned thing around! It tells me when it's > encountered disk errors ... then fixes them! I've had a system crash > ... and Norton Utilities restored the drives ... easily! (That alone > was worth $69.) Day before yesterday, I was told one of the drives > was almost full (because I've been manipulating very large image > files, I guess); Norton found 550 Megabytes of *temporary files and I > authorized their deletion ... result? 550 Mb of space, rather than > the 42 Mb I thought I had. Very cool. > > Oh. I don't own stock in Symantec. This is an unbiased user's opinion > only. > > Albert > > > > >From CNN: > > New virus strikes Monday > > Data-destroying Chernobyl virus called worse than 'Melissa' > > > > http://cnnfn.com/digitaljam/wires/9904/23/chernobyl_wg/ > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 24 08:53:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:55:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ghostman.com!candy From: "Candy Thurman" To: "glass@bungi.com" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Fw: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Sat, 24 Apr 99 07:51:08 Message-ID: <199904241452.IAA11852@mantis.privatei.com> Precedence: bulk On Fri, 23 Apr 1999 22:18:11 -0700, Elizabeth Arakelian wrote: >.SCHOOL UNIFORMS??? what does that >have to do with the price of tea in china??? I think the only time >uniforms are relevent to violence is schools is in schools with a lot of >gang violence(to eliminate the problem that a lot of the gang >communication goes on via clothing) and violence motivated by a desire >to steal "cool" clothing items owned by others( for obvious reasons) Liz, this is very strongly the case in Colorado.. people wear the city's teams (of which they have FOUR at least) all the time.. irritates me to no end when people ask me why I'm not wearing my Bronco colors on Bronco Friday???? To which I reply that I am anti-sports of any kind.. my god worship doesn't extend that far.. Candy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 24 09:23:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 08:24:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: NG - Quote Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:19:59 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr24.151959.0> Precedence: bulk Also sprach Albert: >The problem is, of course, that it's the "light from without" in the >case of stained glass windows. (Unless the building's on fire.) > Otherwise, the sentiment's fine. Welllllllll.......... You could just turn on the lights.............. Sparks (no relation to the abovementioned conflagration) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 24 09:55:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:08:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: enterprise.net!robertcbullock From: "Robert. C. Bullock." To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Sal Amoniac. Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 17:04:49 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr24.18449.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE8E74.8FE8C5E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dani. I buy oleic acid from my local chemist/pharmacy. I just ask them for it. = They don't carry it in stock but he looks it up in his suppliers list = and orders it for me. Usually takes about a week to arrive. I live on a = little Island in the Irish Sea between Britain and Ireland so if I can = get it here without too much trouble it shouldn't be too dificult for = you.=20 You may need a sympathetic pharmacist who is prepared to take the time = look it up to order it for you. It costs me about =A313 or $20 per litre = which goes a long way.=20 It's a pretty common material. I think it's in some digestion aid = medicines but don't go drinking it!=20 Regards. Robert. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE8E74.8FE8C5E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Dani.
I buy oleic acid from my local = chemist/pharmacy.=20 I just ask them for it. They don't carry it in stock but he looks it up = in his=20 suppliers list and orders it for me. Usually takes about a week to = arrive. I=20 live on a little Island in the Irish Sea between Britain and Ireland so = if I can=20 get it here without too much trouble it shouldn't be too dificult for = you.=20
You may need a sympathetic = pharmacist who is=20 prepared to take the time look it up to order it for you. It costs me = about=20 £13 or $20 per litre which goes a long way.
It's a pretty common material. I = think it's in=20 some digestion aid medicines but don't go drinking it!
 
Regards.
 
Robert.
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE8E74.8FE8C5E0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 24 11:00:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 10:04:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BobDu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Candy Thurman" Subject: Re: Fw: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:59:53 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr24.25953.0> Precedence: bulk SCHOOL UNIFORMS??? what does that have to do with the price of tea in china??? I would say that it is an important issue! First of all, children are sent to school to be educated. Anything that interfears with this goal is to be questioned. Here are a few reasons that school uniforms will help the learning enviroment. 1. Uniforms level the playing field between children of all economic classes, 2. Uniforms give the wearer a sence of being identified while going to and from school, 3. Uniforms help to insure that the wearer actualy goes to school and stays there, 4. Uniforms help to establish the authority of authorities, 5. Uniforms preclude wearing apparel of questional modesty and taste, 6. Uniforms preclude wearing apparel that sends a message, such as- a. Black or white power, b. Christ rules, c. Go Broncos, d. I'm a jock, e. I belong to whatever, f. I'm OK, You suck. Ps: Don't push me or I will get on to haircuts! Pss: Can anyone help me with my problem with sending charactors. They come out as letter groups at times. So, a dollar sign ($) comes out as a three letter group. #$%^ Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 24 11:16:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:45:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------4EE325DF3F2C" Subject: [Fwd: Re: Fw: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING] Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:22:51 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr24.22251.0> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------4EE325DF3F2C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From owner-glass Sat Apr 24 11:34:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 10:54:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Dani Greer" Subject: Dani, Sorry that you took it personal Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 10:40:20 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr24.34020.0> Precedence: bulk Hello Dani, First I am not going to even try to put myself in a knowledge/experience/designing/professionalism class about glass that you have and are. I have looked at your website, and the windows are very fantastic. I have not designed even one window, panel, suncatcher, etc. I depend on others who know the cutting properties of glass to figure out the cut lines, all I have done is trace one painting, and ask for help from the Bungi list for help to refine it, and that to me is not a original work since someone else painted the original painting, and other members of Bungi worked out the errors. I am sorry that you took the "Old School" reference so personally. It is how I thought and felt at the moment. Perhaps, we have both learned something from this exchange, even though we did not direct it at each other personally. I hope that you write the books that you mentioned, it would help many more people, than just a email list. I might even learn something from reading them ;-), I spend many hours in the bookstore, reading the books on glass, trying to remember what I read, and try to put it to practice. I hope that you continue to help others, and share your knowledge of glass with the Bungi group. Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 24 11:36:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 10:28:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cs.com!GacicA From: GacicA@cs.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: NG Shooting - Forest Wilcraft Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 13:28:14 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr24.172814.0> Precedence: bulk Forest Wilcraft Quote "A hundred years from now it will not matter what my bank account was, the sort of house I lived in, or the kind of car I drove. But the world may be different because I was important in the life of a child " I think this applies to everyone, not just parents and teachers. Alex Gacic ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 24 11:45:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 10:54:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!ezcomezgo From: rrk To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Window treatments (was newbie question) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:36:20 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr24.23620.0> References: <<199904211612_MC2-72ED-54CF@compuserve.com>> Precedence: bulk Dani Greer wrote: > Most professionals that I know consider glass a liquid.... This is not the case .... see the numerous posts recently on the subject ... which is why I put in the second part. > thank you for sharing all this with us. You're welcome. > However, I'm > really more interested in what's in the stuff I gave you my best guess on that ... obscuring it just enough so that any non-chemist copycats would have a difficult time duplicating it. . > and how > it reacts with the lead over a long period of time. In > this modern day and age, I feel the glass is more > protected than ever already, since it's so frequently > installed against exterior glazing and thus does > not come into direct contact with the elements. > (Perhaps a foolish conclusion on my part....). Actually I agree, but that my opinion only. Whether this stuff is necessary depends on the individual glass installation, and must be taken on a case-by-case basis. The only thing I tried to make clear is : this stuff works (probably) which had been called into question. > Again, > how does will this polymer affect the lead, do you > know? If this stuff is what I think it is, it won't chemically react with or adhere to lead, solder, or any other metal used in glass working in any way. Regards ...... Bob PS ... One of you said I should be a chemistry teacher. Well I was. Universite Louis Pasteur in Strasbourg, France ... for many years ... teaching graduate students on a one-by-one basis (in organic chemistry, pharmacokinetics and metabolism, analytical instrumentation, and molecular pharmacology) as well as other post-graduate students and 5th and 6th year pharmacy students. Gave it up though, I got bored with it and it was time to move onwards and upwards. In addition to design and construction, I'm now looking into improving stained glass construction techniques ... gawd is this stuff tedious ... there's GOT to be a better way ... actually I've got some product ideas already ... we'll see how it turns out. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 24 15:05:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 14:12:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep From: "Brian Shepherd" To: "Charles Spitzer" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NG It can happen anywhere Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 21:49:43 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr24.224943.0> Precedence: bulk Charles I would defend to the death your right to shoot or be shot - it seems to be important to you guys and how you get your kicks is entirely up to you. But are you really sure that everybody over there really wants to play? I don't think you are even slightly correct about the rest of the world being interested in joining you either. I certainly have no wish to own a gun and you have no right to speak for me or anyone else on the matter. BtB there are plenty of countries in the world where it is illegal to own >a gun, i certainly wouldn't want to live in them, and if you asked their populations, they don't either. > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 24 16:43:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 15:34:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: glue Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 16:54:55 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr24.105455.0> Precedence: bulk When I started working glass (only one year ago) I used to glue my pattern pieces to the glass. I tried all the methods listed, removeable glue stick, spray adhesive, contact paper, rubber cement, etc. All of these methods had advantages and disadvantages. I have gotten a lot better at cutting since then, and a lot better at tracing even small pieces. I now trace with a sharpie marker. I am better at cutting my pattern pieces, too. I grind less and less. There are some bungians that will say to cut more accurately is the point, but for me, it just happened, because I kept working at making stained glass. The glueing then became an extra step, I didn't need. I don't think this has to be the same for everyone. I know I needed that paper glued to the glass in the beginning, and if I still needed it now, I think its forgiveable. The important thing is that you take whatever precautions you need to see that your work turns out pleasingly. I look back at some of my work from 1998, and I know I could do a better job at the same piece now. But I really like what I have been able to do as a beginner. I never thought I would be able to do art...of any kind... before stained glass. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 24 17:16:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 16:22:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ppp2.reidgroup.com!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Zinc came, assemble first of after soldering Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 19:21:47 -0400 Message-ID: <199904242321.TAA12111@ppp2.reidgroup.com> Precedence: bulk Hi Everybody, I am finishing the first of 3 panels for a window. It measures 90x30 cm (3 by 1 ft). I decided to use zinc came for the outside. It measures approximately 1cm thick and the glass goes half way (around 5mm). It looks very strong. My question is, should I solder the panel first and put the came after or should I put the came before and solder everything together? THanks in advance for any help. dmg -- Daniel M. German http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 24 17:29:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 16:00:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: NG:another virus to plague windoze Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 18:52:10 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr24.225210.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/24/99 7:14:07 AM, alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net writes: >Oh. I don't own stock in Symantec. This is an unbiased user's opinion >only. Me neither too (she said, just having recovered about 500 megs of accidentally deleted files the other day including all my other half's important correspondence and dissertation stuff). Peter Norton is my favorite geek! (p.s. to Mary: I am a MAC user and I've had nothing but good luck with his stuff. There are a few things it doesn't do, but I've got NOW Utilities for those. Most of the things both Norton and NOW do, Norton does easier IMO.) Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 24 19:13:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 18:09:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net To: "Daniel M. German" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Zinc came, assemble first of after soldering Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 18:08:34 -0700 Message-ID: <199904250108.SAA31667@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >Hi Everybody, > >I am finishing the first of 3 panels for a window. It measures 90x30 >cm (3 by 1 ft). I decided to use zinc came for the outside. It >measures approximately 1cm thick and the glass goes half way (around >5mm). It looks very strong. > >My question is, should I solder the panel first and put the came >after or should I put the came before and solder everything together? With lead came panels, I install the H came border as I go. With zinc came and copper foil, I solder the panel first, clean it, add the zinc came border and solder at the joints. This seems to result in a "cleaner" came border...the flux seems to discolor it quickly. Remember NOT to solder your seams right to the border...leave 1/2" or so just tinned to make sure the came slips easily over. C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 24 20:14:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 19:24:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ppp2.reidgroup.com!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Panel and zinc question Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 22:25:10 -0400 Message-ID: <199904250225.WAA12620@ppp2.reidgroup.com> Precedence: bulk Hi Everybody, I forgot to mention that my window is made with copper foil. Thanks, -- Daniel M. German "We don't believe in kings, presidents and voting; We believe The Internet Credo -> in rough consensus and working code." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 24 20:33:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 19:21:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: "Daniel M. German" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Zinc came, assemble first of after soldering Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 22:21:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr24.182110.0> References: <<199904242321.TAA12111@ppp2.reidgroup.com>> Precedence: bulk Daniel M. German wrote: > > Hi Everybody, > > I am finishing the first of 3 panels for a window. It measures 90x30 > cm (3 by 1 ft). I decided to use zinc came for the outside. It > measures approximately 1cm thick and the glass goes half way (around > 5mm). It looks very strong. > > My question is, should I solder the panel first and put the came > after or should I put the came before and solder everything together? > > THanks in advance for any help. > > dmg > > -- > Daniel M. German > http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html > dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass solder first then came. otherwise the glass will rise in that area, and pieces may shift. though, don't solder all the way to the edges or it may be difficult to put the came on. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 24 21:45:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 20:39:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mpx.com.au!ktsplash From: "ktsplash" To: "Bungi List" Subject: Fw: NG It can happen anywhere Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 13:38:50 +1000 Message-ID: <1999Apr25.233850.0> Precedence: bulk >>there are plenty of countries in the world where it is illegal to own >>a gun, i certainly wouldn't want to live in them, and if you asked their >>populations, they don't either. Actually, as amember of one of those populations (Australia), Charlie, I certainly do wish to live here. The recall of semi-automatic weapons was the ONLY thing our present government has come up with that I've agreed with 100 percent.(don't get me started). this happened right after the Port Arthur massacre - it served as a huge wake-up call to many people in Australia. It gave us a slap across the face, made us rethink our national identity as being easy going, generally safe people. It made us realise that the US is not the only place in the world that this can happen, and that we better start rethinking our culture, what we're "feeding" ourselves through media. I am the grand-daughter of an Olympic shooter, born and raised in a country towns where everyone has a gun and that's just the way it was. I like to shoot. Many people have mentioned, in posts on this topic, the need for disciplining our children, for their own safety and good character. I view this move to ban semi-automatics as much the same thing - a nation as family, government as parents who have done something that may not be welcomed by all of it's children, but is ultimately for their own good. Of course there was much opposition to the scheme, but there are many, many members of our population (myself included), believed it was a step in the right direction. Sure , people still have their guns. But there ARE less in the general population, and if that means that little Johnny, picked on by the school jock, is not as readily able to go home and take the shotgun out of Dad's shed, but must instead deal with his rage in another way, then just PERHAPS a disaster has been avoided. and that PERHAPS is big enough for me. Katie > > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 24 22:06:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 20:49:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Las Vegas (forwarded) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 20:48:26 PDT Message-ID: Precedence: bulk > From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" > To: "Bungi" > Subject: Las Vegas > Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 17:23:28 -0600 > > I know I am late writing about Las Vegas, but I have been swamped! I have > over 1,000 messages today, when I finally got a chance to read my e-mail. I > now understand why some people unsuscribe during even short absences. > > I took the class "Fusing with a Twist". It was great for me. Most of the > people at the class were professionals. The lady on my left was from > Georgia and she makes glass furniture. Says she owns a kiln the size of a > jacuzzi! The lady on my right was from California, and she sells/shows only > from galleries. I had the least experience of the whole class (1 year), but > I did not feel overwhelmed. The class covered all advanced aspects of > fusing and manipulating hot glass in a kiln. I had seen all the techniques > used in either Gil Reynolds book or Lundstrom's book on fusing. But I had > not spent the time trying all these techniques on my own. So the class > provided a live demonstration of techniques, that were interesting to me. I > am still unaware of how I will use all these techniques. > > I was tired by 2:00 pm in the afternoon, buy the class lasted until 5:00 pm. > I stuck it out, but I was pooped when I got back to the room. Traffic in LV > was hell at 5:00 pm on a weekday! Took my husband about 45 min to drive > from the strip to pick me up. > > Everyone was great at giving me ideas of hot glass projects to do with > children. My fourth grade class and I are going to be fusing together next > week. > > I did not spend any time at the exhibits...or see Glenna's work...damn! > > I did stop by and see the Hexagon soldering irons. I wish now I had bought > one. Their prices at the show are less than what I can get wholesale. I > will remember this next year. I did buy a few interesting beads from one of > the vendors. I am working on a tesselation pattern of butterflies, and I > needed eyes for my butterfly heads. I got the tiniest teardrop, navy blue > shaped beads. Saves me from making 50 pairs frit eyes. > > I had the opportunity to go to the Bellagio and see Dale Chuiluy's (sp?) > ceiling. After attending the hot glass class and seeing that ceiling ...of > one of kind, slumped glass objects, I am inspired to make a water fountain > of glass. I think I can do it too! > > The other people from my hometown that attended went through all the booths > extensively. One bought a ring band saw! Some bought various videos...and > are ready to try new things. > > I want to attend next year. I think I want to because I am a beginner, and > I cannot take classes closer to home. It is the reason why I enjoy > bungi.com so much. Working glass for the most part is a solitary pursuit, > and I don't feel I can do this by myself. > -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 24 22:20:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 21:02:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!CWWSLW From: CWWSLW@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: glass giraffe Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 23:59:18 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr25.35918.0> Precedence: bulk Previous message... <<<>>>> Howdy Y'all, Just to let you know, our bid in the house wasn't accepted. Looks like if I want to see my giraffe again, I will have to clone him!! Susan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 24 22:32:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 21:05:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mpx.com.au!ktsplash From: "ktsplash" To: "Bungi List" Subject: Copper Patina on Lead? Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 14:05:29 +1000 Message-ID: <1999Apr26.0529.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all, I saw in my supplier's catalogue a copper patina for lead came. Anyone used this stuff - does it turn out well? I've used copper patina for solder (on a foil project) - it came out patchy at best, even after spending ages with the steel wool smoothing and removing ANY oxidization. I'm doing a large mirror for a bathroom, he has brass fixtures and wants something to match. The design is curvy and in some parts complicated, which is why I thought the patina on lead would work better than brass came. Any suggestions? TIA Katie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Apr 24 22:57:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 21:40:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: BIO # 102 Ricky Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 23:41:45 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr24.184145.0> Precedence: bulk A bio hum! Ok I've done stained glass as hobby and just recently taken it serious where I just can not find a stopping point once a project is started(can't wait to see the finished product) I have 3 sons and the oldest is talented in the art field and helps alot- mostly likes etching) Had a serious car accident few years ago and damaged the numbers and technical side of the brain etc. but left the creative side working - I even think better since there is not anything on other side to distract it (ha ha only teasing) any way stained glass gives our family great joy , and lets us know you can over come obstacles in our own way. in the mean time can't wait to get out the Band-Aids and get started each day! Thanks to all the support of the IGGA members and sense of humor it makes stained glass even more interesting. Well thats about it. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 25 00:31:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 23:24:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BobDu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "ktsplash" Subject: Re: Copper Patina on Lead? Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 23:23:15 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr24.162315.0> Precedence: bulk >>Hi all, I saw in my supplier's catalogue a copper patina for lead came. Anyone used this stuff - does it turn out well? << I have used Novacan Copper Patina for Lead. My result was poor in comparison with copper patina sold for and used on solder. When I want a good copper patina on lead I simply tin the lead with solder first and then use copper patina for solder. This has the added advantage of making the solder joints the same color as the tinned came. ........................ Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 25 01:00:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 23:46:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: Brian Shepherd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG It can happen anywhere Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 23:24:48 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr24.162448.0> References: <<1999Apr24.224943.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk > there are plenty of countries in the world where it is illegal to own > >a gun, i certainly wouldn't want to live in them, and if you asked their > populations, they don't either. > > I dont think gun control is very popular up here in northern Idaho... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 25 01:15:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 23:49:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: Bob Duchesneau Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Fw: NOT GLASS-SHOOTING Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 23:21:51 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr24.162151.0> References: <<1999Apr24.25953.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk Bob Duchesneau wrote: > > SCHOOL UNIFORMS??? what does that have to do with the price of tea in > china??? > > I would say that it is an important issue! First of all, children are > sent to school to be educated. Anything that interfears with this goal > is to be questioned. Here are a few reasons that school uniforms will > help the learning enviroment. > > 1. Uniforms level the playing field between children of all economic > classes, > > 2. Uniforms give the wearer a sence of being identified while going to > and from school, > > 3. Uniforms help to insure that the wearer actualy goes to school and > stays there, > > 4. Uniforms help to establish the authority of authorities, > > 5. Uniforms preclude wearing apparel of questional modesty and taste, > > 6. Uniforms preclude wearing apparel that sends a message, such as- > a. Black or white power, > b. Christ rules, > c. Go Broncos, > d. I'm a jock, > e. I belong to whatever, > f. I'm OK, You suck. > > Ps: Don't push me or I will get on to haircuts! > > Pss: Can anyone help me with my problem with sending charactors. They > come out as letter groups at times. So, a dollar sign ($) comes out as > a three letter group. #$%^ > > Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 > Think glass: have class. > > ---- > and what a lovely feelgood solution to avoid dealing with REAL parenting issues..listen..I knew a lot of girls who sent to the all girls Catholic school with uniforms when I was growing up and I can assure you that they found plenty of ways to flout the supposed goals of the uniforms..they hiked their skirts up just as high as they could and still be legit...I saw more makeup on those girls than I EVER saw on the faces of public school girls...my guess is becasue it was one of the few ways they could express themselves....and dont kid yourself about the economics...everyone still knew who had money and who did not...the accessories may have had to be plain but you can get pretty plain with expensive jewelry...which the rich girls wore up the yin yang iwth their clean new uniforms and the poor girls did not with their threadbare ones....and dont get ME going on haircuts....personally if my kid is going to differentiate herself from the adult world, I would rather it be by dying her hair green than by doing more dangerous things....I encourage you to talk to people who went to Catholic schools and see if all that regimentation "really" did what it was supposed to or just encouraged more covert forms of rebellion...course I am probably the wrong person to talk to about regulating self expression via appearance...I had the green punk haircut, etc etc when I was a kid....if they had had noserings then I am sure I would have been the first to line up for one..hehe.. Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 25 01:37:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 00:10:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: GacicA@cs.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG Shooting - Forest Wilcraft Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 23:22:54 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr24.162254.0> References: <<1999Apr24.172814.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk GacicA@cs.com wrote: > > Forest Wilcraft Quote > > "A hundred years from now it will not matter what my bank account was, the > sort of house I lived in, or the kind of car I drove. But the world may be > different because I was important in the life of a child " > > I think this applies to everyone, not just parents and teachers. > > Alex Gacic > > ---- > Yes Alex, I like this sentiment....children are lots and lots of hard work but SO worth it.....] Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 25 02:07:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 00:41:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mpx.com.au!ktsplash From: "ktsplash" To: "Bungi List" Subject: Re: NG It can happen anywhere Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 16:24:26 +1000 Message-ID: <1999Apr25.22426.0> Precedence: bulk >there are plenty of countries in the world where it is illegal to own >a gun, i certainly wouldn't want to live in them, and if you asked their >populations, they don't either. Actually, as amember of one of those populations (Australia), Charlie, I certainly do wish to live here. The recall of semi-automatic weapons was the ONLY thing our present government has come up with that I've agreed with 100 percent.(don't get me started). this happened right after the Port Arthur massacre - it served as a huge wake-up call to many people in Australia. It gave us a slap across the face, made us rethink our national identity as being easy going, generally safe people. It made us realise that the US is not the only place in the world that this can happen, and that we better start rethinking our culture, what we're "feeding" ourselves through media. I am the grand-daughter of an Olympic shooter, born and raised in a country towns where everyone has a gun and that's just the way it was. I like to shoot. Many people have mentioned, in posts on this topic, the need for disciplining our children, for their own safety and good character. I view this move to ban semi-automatics as much the same thing - a nation as family, government as parents who have done something that may not be welcomed by all of it's children, but is ultimately for their own good. Of course there was much opposition to the scheme, but there are many, many members of our population (myself included), believed it was a step in the right direction. Sure , people still have their guns. But there ARE less in the general population, and if that means that little Johnny, picked on by the school jock, is not as readily able to go home and take the shotgun out of Dad's shed, but must instead deal with his rage in another way, then just PERHAPS a disaster has been avoided. and that PERHAPS is big enough for me. Katie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 25 04:42:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 03:31:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!rwl50 From: Rick To: "Daniel M. German" , glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Zinc came, assemble first of after soldering Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 03:28:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr24.202849.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Daniel, go ahead and solder first, then put the border on, be careful not to go all the way out to the edges, leave room to slip the came over the edge, then finish it up, good luck. Rick --- "Daniel M. German" wrote: > > > Hi Everybody, > > I am finishing the first of 3 panels for a window. > It measures 90x30 > cm (3 by 1 ft). I decided to use zinc came for the > outside. It > measures approximately 1cm thick and the glass goes > half way (around > 5mm). It looks very strong. > > My question is, should I solder the panel first and > put the came > after or should I put the came before and solder > everything together? > > THanks in advance for any help. > > > dmg > > > > > > > -- > Daniel M. German > http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html > dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: > glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: > glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > === http://home.fuse.net/crafts _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 25 10:22:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 09:24:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bio #101 Lou Deskins (2nd try) Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 11:21:23 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr25.62123.0> Precedence: bulk ok Patrick, Time for a bio.... hmmmm Where do I get started? I guess I will start with my glass work. I lived in Tofino, B. C. (Canada) a small coastal community of about 1000 people for 11 years. During that time, a couple of friends and I decided that we would like to do stained glass, so we went to the library to get whatever books we could to learn how to do the craft. We got glass and supplies in Port Alberni(a town 1 1/2 hours away), and gave it a whirl. Unfortunately, we didn't know what was good, or bad, so we didn't know if our work was any good or not. When I look back onto that first piece... whew!! It was AWFUL. The solder was thick and bumpy... and no grinder or anything for smooth edges... needless to say, we grew in the trade ( how can one go anyway but UP, when one is at the bottom? hehehe) That was 1985. One of those girlfriends(my best friend, btw) and my husband decided that they made a better couple than he and I did, so he left me (and the kids)in 1990. As it turns out, it was probably the best thing that could have happened to me... (after I recovered from the pain and grief). I turned to the Lord, and have a wonderful relationship with Jesus. He rescued me, saved me and loves me, and has given me a hope and a future. My oldest son had (and has) a computer, and when "the wave" which is a cable connection came to Victoria, (my - then - new home town) I started messing with it, while he was at work. I discovered chat, and started talking to people in the Christian cht rooms on one of the servers. It was alot of fun, and my son had a hard time getting me off his computer!! Last spring, I met a man from West Virginia, in the Christian cht room. We talked for quite some time, got to be good friends.. and one day he asked me to pray about the possibility of a relationship with him. Woah !!!! It was somewhat of a surprise, but I did pray ... and we are now married, in love, and TOTALLY happy. God is good. My kids have had somewhat of a difficult time with it though. My oldest, who is 22, and just moved into his own apartment last fall, had the hardest time..... trying to look out for his mom. My daughter (20) has been on her own since she went into rebellion at 16, (and is finally becoming a very nice young lady). She didn't have the same difficulty, but still didn't want her mom to risk.... and my youngest, who is now 16 (and now lives with his dad) had the opportunity to visit W. V. with me at Christmas and was able to spend time with my husband and his family. (makes it much easier to let go, when one knows what one is letting go TO..). They have all come around somewhat, and have blessed me in this marriage, and even came to stand with me at our wedding. It was across the water from Victoria, and in Port Angeles. Due to the immigration procedure we had to marry in the US. The immigration thing has been difficult, moving from Canada to the US. We have our wedding pictures online, and if anyone is interested in seeing them. They are at: http://home.talkcity.com/fabioln/lou-n-don/ Well, needless to say, moving from the west coast of Canada, to West Virginia is NOT conducive to transporting glass, and as I mentioned earlier, I gave all my glass stuff to my daughter. It has been difficult to re-establish. I have no patterns, and had to start all over with supplies. I have now been to Wissmach Glass, which is quite an experience!! I recommend it to everyone. I loved to see how they make the glass, and was given a tour!! Bought glass at .80 per pound (which works out to about .80 sq. ft!!) It was the "rejects" but for now, I am VERY happy with that. (BTW, moving so far away, means a different supply of the kinds of glass, I was used to working with a lot of GNA, and now, can't seem to find any around here. Does anyone know who supplies GNA, and is it the same thing as Drawn Antique at Warner, Criv.?) That is about all for now. If anyone has patterns that they would like to send me, I would be very appreciative. (Yes, I have checked out the ones online, for the most part) In fact, we are starting to "store" patterns online at http://www.netphase.net/~deskins/stainedglass... we have "unlimited" webpage storage space. So if you have the time, send me your patterns in jpeg or gif or bmp (not copyrighted ones of course) and we will add them to our collection. I have recently decided to have my work juried to enter it into "Tamarack" a West Virginian craft place.... If all goes well, they buy outright, so the "selling oneself" to the stores will be somewhat easier.. I think. Now... I just have to come up with 3 more projects - in the next 9 days... hmmmmmmm - better get off the puter... Blessings on y'all, Lou (in WV) Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 25 10:36:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 09:27:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: ktsplash Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG It can happen anywhere Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 09:05:15 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr25.2515.0> References: <<1999Apr25.22426.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk ktsplash wrote: > > >there are plenty of countries in the world where it is illegal to own > >a gun, i certainly wouldn't want to live in them, and if you asked their > >populations, they don't either. > > Actually, as amember of one of those populations (Australia), Charlie, I > certainly do wish to live here. > > The recall of semi-automatic weapons was the ONLY thing our present > government has come up with that I've agreed with 100 percent.(don't get me > started). this happened right after the Port Arthur massacre - it served > as a huge wake-up call to many people in Australia. It gave us a slap across > the face, made us rethink our national identity as being easy going, > generally safe people. It made us realise that the US is not the only place > in the world that this can happen, and that we better start rethinking our > culture, what we're "feeding" ourselves through media. > > I am the grand-daughter of an Olympic shooter, born and raised in a country > towns where everyone has a gun and that's just the way it was. I like to > shoot. > > Many people have mentioned, in posts on this topic, the need for > disciplining our children, for their own safety and good character. I view > this move to ban semi-automatics as much the same thing - a nation as > family, government as parents who have done something that may not be > welcomed by all of it's children, but is ultimately for their own good. > > Of course there was much opposition to the scheme, but there are many, many > members of our population (myself included), believed it was a step in the > right direction. > Sure , people still have their guns. But there ARE less in the general > population, and if that means that little Johnny, picked on by the school > jock, is not as readily able to go home and take the shotgun out of Dad's > shed, but must instead deal with his rage in another way, then just PERHAPS > a disaster has been avoided. and that PERHAPS is big enough for me. > > Katie > > I think too there is a difference between controlling ALL guns and certain types. I mean I can see why someone might need a rifle (to hunt) or a basic handgun (self defense) but why on earth would any civilian "need" a machine gun???? yes, certain TYPES of weapons should be banned, but not all. ' Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 25 10:55:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 09:49:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Copper Patina on Lead? Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 09:03:17 -0700 Message-ID: <199904251603.JAA29708@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >Hi all, I saw in my supplier's catalogue a copper patina for lead came. >Anyone used this stuff - does it turn out well? I've used copper patina for >solder (on a foil project) - it came out patchy at best, even after spending >ages with the steel wool smoothing and removing ANY oxidization. I'm doing >a large mirror for a bathroom, he has brass fixtures and wants something to >match. The design is curvy and in some parts complicated, which is why I >thought the patina on lead would work better than brass came. >Any suggestions? >TIA >Katie Katie... What about lead filled brass came...it bends more easily, and for really detailed areas see if they might look good with black patina as a focal point within the border largely done in the lead filled brass came. Word of warning...brass came is NOT treated with a non tarnish finish like bathroom faucets, so they won't match forever. C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 25 12:20:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 11:19:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: Dani Greer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: One last comment Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 19:10:31 +0000 Message-ID: <199904251812.SAA10019@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Well, Dani, my friend, I for one will be very sad to miss out on your pithy, knowledgable and worth-while comments on Bungi... (together with the occasional laugh). I know we will have time together in USA when I come over, (....unless Daddies Sauce bottles breaks and pours out all over my lingerie in the suitcase...;-> ), but I enjoy your advice and font of knowledge, as well as your sense of fun on Bungi too (and did I detect a certain amount of passion as well..?. I hope your retreat is not totally irreversible. Roll on August, am sooo looking forward to meeting up with you... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK. Dani wrote: After deep consideration this morning, I have decided that my involvment and contribution to bungi is no longer time well- spent for me. I will continue to = monitor the forum in my role as IGGA board member, but I choose not to participate. My energy will instead go into writing for Common Ground: Glass and teaching stained glass at a local = community college the next two semesters. I am also considering = writing a book unquote. P.S. Concerning the debate (Pre-planned obsolesence/ Repairs) with Jeff Eckes, I wrote to Dani of my reaction a week or so ago and received the wistful reply that she wished I had posted that into the Group. Dani, your wish is my command; here goes: snip<> Jeff, appears to run this "argument" very politely and affably. I hope it stays that way. As for opnion, I totally and completely agree with you, Dani. I tell my customers (tongue in cheek) that I hope not to see them again for about 300 years or more. Occasionally, I get the deep intake of breath and the customer looks at me rather strangely - wherupon I just give them a broad grin and say something like.... ah well, unless you want some more stained glass or you wish to collect me from the Old Folks Home to celebrate the Centenary of your stained glass, or unless I am doing something spectacular for you to be proud of (like sweating blood 'n tears in USA, where everybody and his/her grandmother already know everything about stained glass that there is to know)..... I have found that MY customers don't just buy a piece of stained glass from me; they also think they have bought my mind, heart and soul (occasionally close to the truth); my past history and my illustrious future (HAH!!) My marketing friend (Jenny) has taken me in hand these last few months (good thing too!!) and has made me sit down a couple of hours every week to sweat over theory (when I would much rather get on with the "doing" bit!!), to make me focus about who I am and what I am about as a stained glass artist (Artist????) The business of either mass-production or slapping on protective coating just doesn't come into it at all. As you so rightly pointed out, there are MORE and BETTER ways of staying in touch with your past "patrons" (read customers), than falling for that marketing "gimmick" of "perceived customer value". The canny Brits are highly suspicious of such sales "spiels" anyhow and don't easily buy it. < snip > E 'n T in UK ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 25 17:51:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 16:22:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Toby Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: One last comment Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:20:24 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr25.132024.0> References: <<199904251812.SAA10019@saturn.nildram.co.uk>> Precedence: bulk > Roll on August, am sooo looking forward to meeting up with you... > Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK. You hit that nail *right on the head, Elizabeth. August cant get here soon enough for me! ;o) T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Apr 25 19:30:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:36:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: nbnet.nb.ca!mschut From: mschut@nbnet.nb.ca (mschut) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Patio Stones Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 21:39:26 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990425213926.1b5f2b7e@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca> Precedence: bulk My wife and I, due to her pregnancy, have decided to make some patio stones. I have a number of questions about them: 1. Our form is 12" in diameter and makes a stone that is appromimately 1 1/4" thick. Is there a need to put any reinforcement through the concrete (sand) mix so they can be walked on without fear of cracking in half. 2. Is there a general rule of thumb as it relates to the size of pieces of glass to put in them. i.e. does a larger piece of glass lend itself to cracking easier than a small piece? 3. Do the stones need to be coated with something once they are out of the form and ready to go outside? 4. Is is ok for these stones to remain outside during the winter? (New Brunswick has a lot of snowfall and cold winters?) Your assistance would be greatly appreciated since we have already had people asking us to make stones for them (the first one needs it by next Sunday) and I would like to do it right for them. Thanks in advance. Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & ????? Schut Moncton, New Brunswick ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 26 16:19:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:27:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Chrismas is coming already... Date: Mon Apr 26 14:26:20 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr27.12420.0> Precedence: bulk I have been asked to make a stained glass start to put at the top of a Christmas tree. Since the request came from my wife the sooner it is done the happier we'll be. I'm thinking of a simple five pointed star mounted on a metal/plastic cone. It will probably Be about 8"s top to bottom. The front of the star is no problem. It is the back and lighting that concern me. What can be used for a light source? (I don't think I want one central bulb) Do I need a vent to let the heat escape and how does it get incorporated into the design? Should the back be reflective? Any ideas suggestions or constructive criticism will be welcome. Vic M. Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 26 16:21:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:30:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: NG - Quote Date: Mon Apr 26 14:27:53 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr27.12553.0> Precedence: bulk Cindy You don't stick the light anywhere. It comes from within. Vic M. Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com -----Original Message----- From: Cindy Pesonen [mailto:cpesonen@uniserve.com] Sent: Friday, April 23, 1999 8:27 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: NG - Quote Yeah it sounds nice BUT...hey there's always back lighting for glass when the sun is down. Now where to I stick light on me? In front or in back...don't answer this please, grin. Cindy...almost afraid to sign:) >> People are like stained-glass windows. They sparkle and shine when >> the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is >> revealed only if there is a light from within. -- Elizabeth = >> K=FCbler-Ross > >The problem is, of course, that it's the "light from without" in the >case of stained glass windows. (Unless the building's on fire.) > Otherwise, the sentiment's fine. > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 26 16:34:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:51:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep From: "Brian Shepherd" To: , "Charles Spitzer" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NG It can happen anywhere Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:41:25 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr26.214125.0> Precedence: bulk Charles Where exactly did I say we don't have illegal guns in England? I didn't say we didn't have violence either. It appalls me equally whether it's over there or here. If you want I could dig out a vast littany of travesties against the innocent from the US news services, sadly very little work in the light of recent occurences (or on any day) But I don't feel there is any purpose served. You certainly will run of ammunition out long before I will! Guns kill people! That is their designed function. I am not a pacifist - there are times when it becomes necessary for a country to take arms against another but I don't feel there is any conceivable need to take it into the home! We come from different countries with widely differing philosphies. Yours does not suit me Charles - am I not free to differ? Must you have my approval to reinforce your beliefs? If you are so right then how important can my opinon be? Exercise your freedom of speech as much as you like but don't use it to put words in other people's mouths. All those teeming masses so keen to get into America are seeking a better life not the freedom to own a gun. If you want another pop at me then feel free but in defference to the nice people on bungi, please take it off list. I'm sure you are a very nice man Charles and I have just wound you up - let us agree to differ - I don't think you will change my mind - but do try if you have the energy! Very best regards BtB >huh? have you travelled through central america recently? how about the >person from arizona who was jailed for 9 months for the possession of 5 >bullets when he entered mexico? how about through parts of south africa? >perhaps parts of eastern europe or china? > >i think you're being a bit ethrocentric and naive. in all of the above >countries, it is against the law to own a gun, yet i don't know anyone who >wants to move to central america. with the flood of people trying to get >over our border, i assume that the rest of their population wants to also >move out of their country. > >furthermore, please note the following news release. i believe your own >locale isn't immune to the problems happening in the rest of the world: >-------------------------------------------------- >SIX INJURED BY GUNFIRE IN NORTHERN ENGLAND >April 23, 1999 >Web posted at 12:27 PM EDT (1627 GMT) > >MANCHESTER, England (Reuters) -- Six people were wounded on Friday in a >drive-by shooting in Rochdale, northern England, as police chased two men >after a failed robbery. > >"There has been a major incident. The offenders have been apprehended," a >police spokesman said. > >Six people were wounded, four seriously, when they were sprayed with >gunfire at a bus stop outside a supermarket in the town north of >Manchester, television news reports said. > >Police confirmed the number of victims and said two men are in custody but >could not immediately confirm the circumstances beyond saying officers had >pursued the suspects. > >The reports said one of the two balaclava-clad men, who had ditched their >car after a robbery and hijacked a silver BMW and its driver, opened fire >as they were being chased at high speed by unmarked police Range Rovers. > >The chase came to an abrupt end when the car crashed into a lamp post. > >"In the course of the pursuit a number of police officers and members of >the public had firearms pointed at them and shots were fired," police said >in a statement. "Six members of the public have been injured." > >The owner of the BMW was treated for shock. >-------------------------------------------------- >regards, >charlie >phx, az > >At 09:49 PM 4/24/99 +0100, you wrote: >>Charles >> >>I would defend to the death your right to shoot or be shot - it seems to be >>important to you guys and how you get your kicks is entirely up to you. But >>are you really sure that everybody over there really wants to play? >> >>I don't think you are even slightly correct about the rest of the world >>being interested in joining you either. >> >>I certainly have no wish to own a gun and you have no right to speak for me >>or anyone else on the matter. >> >>BtB >> >> >> >>there are plenty of countries in the world where it is illegal to own >>>a gun, i certainly wouldn't want to live in them, and if you asked their >>populations, they don't either. >>> >> >> >> >> >-- >Charles Spitzer >Stratus Computer, Inc >Speaking from Stratus, not for Stratus, Ascend, or Lucent > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 26 16:40:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:52:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!charles_spitzer From: Charles Spitzer To: bshep@dircon.co.uk, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: NG It can happen anywhere Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:18:11 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990426091811.009db750@atlas2.az.stratus.com> References: <<007a01be8e94$18dd1a80$433a70c2@1>> Precedence: bulk huh? have you travelled through central america recently? how about the person from arizona who was jailed for 9 months for the possession of 5 bullets when he entered mexico? how about through parts of south africa? perhaps parts of eastern europe or china? i think you're being a bit ethrocentric and naive. in all of the above countries, it is against the law to own a gun, yet i don't know anyone who wants to move to central america. with the flood of people trying to get over our border, i assume that the rest of their population wants to also move out of their country. furthermore, please note the following news release. i believe your own locale isn't immune to the problems happening in the rest of the world: -------------------------------------------------- SIX INJURED BY GUNFIRE IN NORTHERN ENGLAND April 23, 1999 Web posted at 12:27 PM EDT (1627 GMT) MANCHESTER, England (Reuters) -- Six people were wounded on Friday in a drive-by shooting in Rochdale, northern England, as police chased two men after a failed robbery. "There has been a major incident. The offenders have been apprehended," a police spokesman said. Six people were wounded, four seriously, when they were sprayed with gunfire at a bus stop outside a supermarket in the town north of Manchester, television news reports said. Police confirmed the number of victims and said two men are in custody but could not immediately confirm the circumstances beyond saying officers had pursued the suspects. The reports said one of the two balaclava-clad men, who had ditched their car after a robbery and hijacked a silver BMW and its driver, opened fire as they were being chased at high speed by unmarked police Range Rovers. The chase came to an abrupt end when the car crashed into a lamp post. "In the course of the pursuit a number of police officers and members of the public had firearms pointed at them and shots were fired," police said in a statement. "Six members of the public have been injured." The owner of the BMW was treated for shock. -------------------------------------------------- regards, charlie phx, az At 09:49 PM 4/24/99 +0100, you wrote: >Charles > >I would defend to the death your right to shoot or be shot - it seems to be >important to you guys and how you get your kicks is entirely up to you. But >are you really sure that everybody over there really wants to play? > >I don't think you are even slightly correct about the rest of the world >being interested in joining you either. > >I certainly have no wish to own a gun and you have no right to speak for me >or anyone else on the matter. > >BtB > > > >there are plenty of countries in the world where it is illegal to own >>a gun, i certainly wouldn't want to live in them, and if you asked their >populations, they don't either. >> > > > > -- Charles Spitzer Stratus Computer, Inc Speaking from Stratus, not for Stratus, Ascend, or Lucent ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 26 16:49:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:52:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: E in Augest... Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 08:06:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr26.4636.0> Precedence: bulk ME TOO! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 26 16:54:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:54:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Updated web site. Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:27:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr26.7275.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all. Albert Lewis kindly updated my IGGA web site so that it now starts with an 8-panel commission I recently did. It's of an iris garden with trumpet vines. The 8 panels are installed in bi-fold frames, so that they fold up on them- selves and out of the way when my clients want to open up the functional windows which are behind the stained glass ones. It's all in a bathroom above the whirlpool. http://www.igga.org/wood/ Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 26 17:15:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:50:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ipa.net!gecko From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Hey! What's going on here? Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:50:51 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr26.125051.0> Precedence: bulk I just realized that I haven't had any bungi mail for over 2 days! This is unheard of!!!! Did everyone just run out of things to say? Or have I been blacklisted!?!? (ack!) THANK YOU to EVERYONE who helped my answering my questions about the Sal Ammoniac! I got some excellent advice, and I soldered yesterday without a single headache! Hope all are doing fine out there in bungi-land. Startin' to feel kinda lonesome here! My mailbox looks like and endless tundra for blank white! I'm finding myself checking my mail EVEN MORE often, just to see if bungi's back! See you guys! Blake :-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 26 18:22:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:31:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: hotmail.com!mrsdesigns From: "Michele Spruill" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Chrismas is coming already... Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:28:22 PDT Message-ID: <1999Apr27.02822.0> Precedence: bulk Vic, A stained glass star should be beautiful on top of your tree! A couple ideas regarding your plan: -A metal cone will balance the weight of the star better than plastic. -You can light the star by placing the end of a strand of Christmas lights inside or behind the star. (depending on how you construct the star) Christmas lights shouldn't be so hot that it requires venting. I have a Christmas angel on top of my tree, and I just stuff her skirt with lights until it is bright enough. (Hope that description doesn't sound too terrible!) :-0 If you want a more orderly show of lights in/around the star, you could fashion clips of wire every so far in the solder to hold individual light bulbs from the Christmas lights and try to hide the electrical wire as best you can. Hope this helps somehow... Michele >From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@daver.bungi.com >To: glass@bungi.com >Subject: Chrismas is coming already... >Date: Mon Apr 26 14:26:20 1999 > >I have been asked to make a stained glass start to put at the top of a >Christmas tree. >Since the request came from my wife the sooner it is done the happier we'll >be. > >I'm thinking of a simple five pointed star mounted on a metal/plastic cone. >It will probably >Be about 8"s top to bottom. The front of the star is no problem. >It is the back and lighting that concern me. >What can be used for a light source? (I don't think I want one central bulb) > >Do I need a vent to let the heat escape and how does it get incorporated >into the design? >Should the back be reflective? > >Any ideas suggestions or constructive criticism will be welcome. > >Vic M. >Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 26 22:27:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 18:46:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "bungi.com" Subject: Blake & Christie Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 21:45:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr26.174514.0> Precedence: bulk Blake, It seems that on weekends the mail drops way off, my conclusion people are working on glass or they have a life. I often have to send a test message to myself to make sure my server or ISP didn't crash and I didn't know it. Take Care, LJ Christie, I love your iris panels, very beautiful. LJ -----Original Message----- From: Blake, Wayne, & Susan To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, April 26, 1999 8:18 PM Subject: Hey! What's going on here? >I just realized that I haven't had any bungi mail for over 2 days! >This is unheard of!!!! > >Did everyone just run out of things to say? Or have I been blacklisted!?!? >(ack!) > >THANK YOU to EVERYONE who helped my answering my questions about the Sal >Ammoniac! >I got some excellent advice, and I soldered yesterday without a single >headache! > >Hope all are doing fine out there in bungi-land. Startin' to feel kinda >lonesome here! My mailbox looks like and endless tundra for blank white! >I'm finding myself checking my mail EVEN MORE often, just to see if bungi's >back! > >See you guys! >Blake >:-) > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 26 22:44:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:28:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BobDu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , Subject: Re: Chrismas is coming already... Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:27:27 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr26.122727.0> Precedence: bulk Vic wrote, in part: >>What can be used for a light source? (I don't think I want one central bulb) Do I need a vent to let the heat escape and how does it get incorporated into the design?<< For your Christmas tree star I suggest you look into fiber optics. It is not expensive or hard to do. You will not have the heat or weight from a light bulb at the star, can heve many points of light and the colors you choose. People will even think that you are a technical wizzard. ....................... Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Apr 26 22:58:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:57:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mindspring.com!pigznpawz From: "Jerri" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Updated web site. Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:41:38 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr26.184138.0> References: <<1999Apr26.7275.0>> Precedence: bulk Wow Christie! If I had those windows, I'd be sitting in the tub all the time just to look at them. They look great. I'd love to see them up close! Jerri > Hi all. Albert Lewis kindly updated my IGGA web site > so that it now starts with an 8-panel commission I recently > did. It's of an iris garden with trumpet vines. The 8 panels > are installed in bi-fold frames, so that they fold up on them- > selves and out of the way when my clients want to open up > the functional windows which are behind the stained glass > ones. It's all in a bathroom above the whirlpool. > http://www.igga.org/wood/ > > Christie A. Wood > Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, > P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 > http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 00:05:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:38:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Hey! What's going on here? Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:23:59 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr26.172359.0> References: <<1999Apr26.125051.0>> Precedence: bulk Hey Blake, and all... Maybe everyone is taking a breather, and doing some work. I've been trying to catch up on some... You about ready for that big show? ;o) I know you are gonna do really great! 'Specially if you wear that kilt! Get a little breeze goin...(you can put a fan under a table) and you will have lots of people coming to check out your booth! ;o) Wishing you the best of luck, Blake. I have a really good feeling about it. T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 00:27:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:55:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: townsqr.com!tinkerbell From: "tinkerbell" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: updated web site Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 01:59:04 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr26.20594.0> Precedence: bulk Awesome. Want to remodel my bath room right now! tinkerbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 04:26:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 03:55:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr From: CncptThnkr@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Chrismas is coming already... Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 06:53:34 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr27.105334.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/26/99 7:20:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@aol.com writes: > 'm thinking of a simple five pointed star mounted on a metal/plastic cone. > It will probably > Be about 8"s top to bottom. The front of the star is no problem. > It is the back and lighting that concern me. > What can be used for a light source? (I don't think I want one central bulb) Hey Vic, How about two identical stars with the lights in between?, it would be lit up and look nice from both directions. Instead of a plastic or metal cone, couldn't you use a short section of copper pipe? IA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 04:57:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 04:23:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass From: "K See" To: "Brian Shepherd" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NG It can happen anywhere Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:21:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr27.32140.0> References: <<1999Apr26.214125.0>> Precedence: bulk I agree with Brian whole heartily KSee "Art is the only way to run away without leaving home." Twyla Tharp ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Shepherd To: ; Charles Spitzer Sent: Monday, April 26, 1999 3:41 PM Subject: Re: NG It can happen anywhere | | Guns kill people! That is their designed function. I am not a pacifist - | there are times when it becomes necessary for a country to take arms against | another but I don't feel there is any conceivable need | to take it into the home! | | | We come from different countries with widely differing philosphies. Yours | does not suit me Charles - am I not free to differ? Must you have my | approval to reinforce your beliefs? If you are so right then how important | can my opinon be? | | Exercise your freedom of speech as much as you like but don't use it to put | words in other people's mouths. All those teeming masses so keen to get into | America are seeking a better life not the freedom to own a gun. | | If you want another pop at me then feel free but in defference to the nice | people on bungi, please take it off list. | | I'm sure you are a very nice man Charles and I have just wound you up - let | us agree to differ - I don't think you will change my mind - but do try if | you have the energy! | | | Very best regards | | BtB | ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 06:06:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 04:50:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Fiber Optics... Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:50:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr27.35054.0> Precedence: bulk This sounds really special...please keep us informed on the details, Abbie in Va. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 06:20:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 05:18:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: erols.com!nadinesfolly From: Nadine Beth Schneider To: "Christie A. Wood" , Bungi Subject: re: Updated web site. Date: 27 Apr 99 08:12:55 -0500 Message-ID: <199904271211.IAA16297@smtp2.erols.com> Precedence: bulk Beautiful work, Christie! You did a fantastic job! Nadine www.nadinesfolly.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 06:47:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 06:11:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: socent.org!atf From: "ATF Distribution Center-K. See" To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: NG-Haiku Messages Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:42:37 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr27.44237.0> Organization: SOC Enterprises Precedence: bulk >> Subject: HAIKU MESSAGES IMPROVE ERROR DIALOG BOXES >> Sony has announced its own computer operating system now available on its hot new portable PC called the Vaio. Instead of producing the cryptic error messages characteristic of Microsoft's Windows 95, 3.1, and DOS operating systems, Sony's chairman Asai Tawara said, "We intend to capture the high ground by putting a human, Japanese face on what has been - until now - an operating system that reflects Western cultural hegemony. >> "For example, we have replaced the impersonal and unhelpful Microsoft error messages with our own Japanese haiku poetry." The chairman went on to give examples of Sony's new error messages: >> >> A file that big? >> It might be very useful. >> But now it is gone. >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >> The Web site you seek >> cannot be located but >> countless more exist >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >> Chaos reigns within. >> Reflect, repent, and reboot. >> Order shall return. >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >> ABORTED effort: >> Close all that you have worked on. >> You ask way too much. >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >> Yesterday it worked >> Today it is not working >> Windows is like that. >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >> First snow, then silence. >> This thousand dollar screen dies >> so beautifully. >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >> With searching comes loss >> and the presence of absence: >> "My Novel" not found. >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >> The Tao that is seen >> Is not the true Tao, until >> You bring fresh toner. >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >> Windows NT crashed. >> I am the Blue Screen of Death. >> No one hears your screams. >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >> Stay the patient course >> Of little worth is your ire >> The network is down >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >> A crash reduces >> your expensive computer >> to a simple stone. >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >> Three things are certain: >> Death, taxes, and lost data. >> Guess which has occurred. >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >> You step in the stream, >> but the water has moved on. >> This page is not here. >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >> Out of memory. >> We wish to hold the whole sky, >> But we never will. >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >> Having been erased, >> the document you're seeking >> Must now be retyped. >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >> Serious error. >> All shortcuts have disappeared. >> Screen. Mind. Both are blank >> >A crash reduces >your expensive computer >to a simple stone. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 07:07:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 05:49:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bardstown.com!glassx From: "Glass Expressions" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: more info on fiber optics Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:11:00 +0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr27.15110.0> Precedence: bulk hello bob had mentioned about fiber optics on the christmas star. sound interesting. being pretty new to lighting stained glass. I would love to have more information on this and where one might find it , is there a web page or photos with info on this. Thanks so much for your help! ricky ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 07:31:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 06:06:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Hey! What's going on here? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:03:28 +0000 Message-ID: <199904271305.NAA02012@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Ohhh schucks!!! And there it was ME (and Toby!) thinking that it was Mr. O'Tutu himeslf sporting a new celtic type tutu!!! Toby took one look at that nice rump steak and said YES PLEEZE!! Or is this a wicked trick by Patrick O'Tutu to throw Toby off the sense??? We want to KNOW!! Elisabeth 'n stay-at-home Toby in UK Suzanne Tulsa wrote: >really great! 'Specially if you wear that kilt! Get a little >breeze goin...(you can put a fan under a table) and you will have >lots of people coming to check out your booth! ;o) ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 08:15:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 06:32:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Mar333Wood From: Mar333Wood@aol.com To: Ensembles@compuserve.com (Christie A. Wood), glass@bungi.com (Bungi) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Your updated site Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:30:39 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr27.133039.0> Precedence: bulk Christi, What a beautiful way to start my day! The windows are more than lovely and I enjoyed viewing all of the clips. Thanks for sharing. Until later, Marti http://members.aol.com/Mar333Wood/WOODMAR.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 08:24:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 06:39:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Subject: NOT GLASS-what is an artist? Date: Tue Apr 27 06:37:52 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr28.41552.0> Organization: Taylor'd Expressions Precedence: bulk we had the discussion a little while ago about what is an artist, my cousin sent this to me in a list of "useful work phrases" >> 2. The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist. debbie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 08:38:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:23:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: email.msn.com!EastGateXX From: "EastGateXX@msn.com" To: "Bungi" Subject: Re: Updated web site. Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:23:53 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr27.02353.0> Precedence: bulk Christie, I went to your sight - what a beautiful set of windows! I love the way you can fold them back if need be. Gorgeous! -----Original Message----- From: Christie A. Wood To: Bungi Date: Monday, April 26, 1999 5:00 PM Subject: Updated web site. >Hi all. Albert Lewis kindly updated my IGGA web site >so that it now starts with an 8-panel commission I recently >did. It's of an iris garden with trumpet vines. The 8 panels >are installed in bi-fold frames, so that they fold up on them- >selves and out of the way when my clients want to open up >the functional windows which are behind the stained glass >ones. It's all in a bathroom above the whirlpool. >http://www.igga.org/wood/ > >Christie A. Wood >Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, >P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 >http://www.igga.org/wood/ >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 09:05:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:28:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!SKDJ From: SKDJ@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: fiber optics Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:26:01 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr27.14261.0> Precedence: bulk Could you post the info about the fiber optics to Bungi, as I am interested also? Thanks Sherry ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 09:17:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:28:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Blake Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:25:10 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <199904271427.JAA19465@relay.acns.nwu.edu> Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk >>It seems that on weekends the mail drops way off, my conclusion people are working on glass or they have a life.<< Or their internet access is only at the office (which I try to avoid on weekends) : - ) >>Christie, I love your iris panels, very beautiful.<< Big ditto--gorgeous! Kaye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 09:37:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:35:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Links on Fiber Optics Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:20:50 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr27.12050.0> Precedence: bulk http://www.toddsfiber.com/ http://www.toddsfiber.com/PRICES.HTM http://www.fiberoptic.com/ http://www.jmfiberoptics.com/ http://www.multimod.com/ http://www.fiberopticlight.com/ Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 09:52:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:12:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Glass Expressions" , Subject: Re: more info on fiber optics Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:58:10 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr27.05810.0> Precedence: bulk http://www.edsci.com/ you can order two catalogs from this company, on page 188 of the "Optics and Optical Instruments Catalog" you can buy a bundle of fiber Optic strands (approx. >12,500 strands) for $53.00, part number F31735. Combine it with a small light at one end of the bundle, and let the other end play/float around the star, and you would have a star light field around the star. Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: Glass Expressions To: glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 07:16 AM Subject: more info on fiber optics |hello bob had mentioned about fiber optics on the christmas star. sound |interesting. being pretty new to lighting stained glass. I would love to |have more information on this and where one might find it , is there a web |page or photos with info on this. Thanks so much for your help! ricky | |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 09:56:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:42:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Hey! What's going on here? Date: Tue Apr 27 08:42:28 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr28.62028.0> Precedence: bulk Rumor has it that Patrick O'Tutu's sent is in positively unique and very distinctive. I am quite sure that Toby knows it well. Vic M. PS Can you smuggle doggie cookies back to the UK. A little advanced bribery never hurts. -----Original Message----- From: Toby [mailto:toby@northlights.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 10:03 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Hey! What's going on here? Or is this a wicked trick by Patrick O'Tutu to throw Toby off the sense??? We want to KNOW!! Elisabeth 'n stay-at-home Toby in UK ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 10:25:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:23:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr From: CncptThnkr@aol.com To: Ensembles@compuserve.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Updated web site. Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:23:11 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr27.162311.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/26/99 7:55:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Ensembles@compuserve.com writes: > http://www.igga.org/wood/ > Beautiful work, thanks for sharing. Pat ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 10:44:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:43:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BobDu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Glass Expressions" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: More info on fiber optics Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:42:20 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr27.24220.0> Precedence: bulk Todds House of Fiber at: http://www.toddsfiber.com/ is a good place to start to learn about fiber optics. Beware- fiber optics can become addictive. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. -----Original Message----- From: Glass Expressions To: glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 7:29 AM Subject: more info on fiber optics >hello bob had mentioned about fiber optics on the christmas star. sound >interesting. being pretty new to lighting stained glass. I would love to >have more information on this and where one might find it , is there a web >page or photos with info on this. Thanks so much for your help! ricky > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 10:53:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:46:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Updated web site. Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:45:25 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr27.84525.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Cindy Pesonen >Do you do alot of layering? I'm sure the picture does not do it justice = to the real thing. Three layers must add alot of weight. The mosaic looks like a painting, it's gorgeous. I've never done a mosaic= before and would like to soon. Mars the bringer of War, you mentioned plating? Can you eblaborate?< The iris set of panels is not plated at all. All the shading is done by very carefully choosing specific parts of the Youghiogheny glass. There is also no painting. Just one layer of glass. The mosaic piece on my web site (the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia project) was based on an original oil painting by Stefania Luciani. We were very, very careful to duplicate the brush strokes of the oil paintin= g. As to "Mars, the Bringer of War", yes, it is two layers of glass plated together. The circle & spears & flags are one layer. The abstract triangles & red flames are another layer. Constructed separately, and then soldered together one atop the other. For more details about plating, see the Robert Oddy article in one of the back issues of IGGA's "Common Ground:Glass" magazine. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 11:18:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:46:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Updated web site. Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:45:13 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr27.84513.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Jerri" >Wow Christie! If I had those windows, I'd be sitting in the tub all the= time just to look at them. They look great. I'd love to see them up close!< Thanks! I have a large single window of a grape arbor with a stream running by, which is above my whirlpool tub in my house. I do love to sit in the tub with a glass of wine, lighted by the stained glass lights and some candles. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 11:26:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:50:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Romajoco From: Romajoco@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: FOUND TREASURE--Old sample set Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:48:03 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr27.16483.0> Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, I have a question that I hope someone will be able to give me some insight too. I was going through my box of scraps today to give to our local high school (the teacher is thrilled to get them) and I came across an old sample set. I do not know where I got them; a friend used to have a resale store and bought out estates...one time there was glass stuff in it and she gave it to me. Well, anyway on the pieces of glass it has Pyramid Glass company and a few have numbers....others are so faded that I cannot tell what the numbers are. A lot of the glass reminds me of some Spectrum glass but then others do not. Has anyone ever heard of Pyramid Glass Company? I did a web search and didn't find anything that pertained to stained glass. Thanks in advance. Margie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 11:40:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:49:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Updated web site. Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:45:22 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr27.84522.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:SKDJ@aol.com >Very nice job! I had not thought of making panels like inside shutters,= that = could fold up out of the way. Sherry< This is the 2nd set of bi-fold panels that are like inside shutters which I have done. But these are the largest ones I've done. I had the frames custom made by a local cabinet-maker who did a fantasic job. Charged an arm & a leg too, but the end result is wonderful craftsmanship. You can also get shutter blanks at Home Depot in various sizes. That's what I did for the other set of 4 bi-fold stained glass shutters. I stained the wooden frame myself. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 11:54:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:53:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Updated web site. Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:48:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr27.84810.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Kay Frith Allen >May I ask what kind of glass you used to make the irises? Couldn't tell= from the photo on your site. Too far away. I want to do some irises in different colors on one large panel but unsure of who makes the best flow= er glass for this project. = Your eight panels are gorgeous. Kay Allen< Thanks for the kudos on the panels. I used Youghiogheny glass for the irises, leaves, trumpet vine flowers and border. I used Armstrong white for the background. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 12:18:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:27:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Elisabeth meeting ya all in USA Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:24:28 +0000 Message-ID: <199904271726.RAA18383@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hi everybody, Time is marching on, D-day is getting closer and a lot of things appear to be happening behind the scenes. I am now getting e-mails (as well as sending them myself...) about how do we know who is whom when we get together. How do we identify each other.... and what IS a "Bungi-Cord"?????? How many people will be where....? A quick count on the last couple pof months e-mails I have received, reveals the following people at Glass Visions and/or Jenna Meredith's in Maryland; Holler if you are not listed but intend to be there, please. I am now also beginning to get personal "descriptions", like Steve is the one with Y-chromosomes (what does Vic have then???) List is as per how I found them on my 'puter system chronologically and applies to Glass Visions / Maryland only --- initially (get to the others a little later). Suzanne Albright Lenore W Kaye Sodt Suzanne de Tulsa (sounds good, huh!?) Abbie Steve W Nadine Christie Wood (still OK??) Sparks?? Dorothy K ('n OF COURSE P I E R R E !!) Ann - Harvard Glass Val - Pittsburgh Vic Modiano Dava Kopp (N. Carolina) Linda Jo Linda Campbell Mr. O'Tutu might make a "Special Guest Appearance" .....somewhere..... (now, wouldn't you like to know, folks!?) Am I missing anybody travelling to Allentown and/or Maryland/Philadelphia??? I will meet up with Carol 'n more people in Seattle / Vancouver..... but WHERE will I meet up with Pam...? Anyhow, folks, as regards Allentown / Maryland area, this is far as I have got...... Fill me in!! Roll on August! Elisabeth 'n stay-at-home Toby in UK ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 14:29:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:43:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: toby@northlights.co.uk, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Elisabeth meeting ya all in USA Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:37:05 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr27.20375.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/27/99 3:19:44 PM, toby@northlights.co.uk writes: >and what IS a "Bungi-Cord"?????? Also known as a "tie-down cord" and by several other names I can't recall.... It's an elastic cord with a metal hook on each end and a braided nylon (?) cover, usually multicolored. Looks sort of like a giant shoelace with hooks at the ends. They come in all different lengths and are usually about 3/8" or 1 cm thick. Very useful! >Sparks?? 5'5" or so, two X chromosomes, 45 going on 46 going on 14, very ordinary-looking (although my sweetie disagrees), neither particularly skinny nor particularly chubby, medium brown hair with a bit of salt-and-pepper through it (usually pulled back in a bun these days), green eyes, great big frameless glasses, no makeup, *very* casual and often just plain sloppy dresser, off-the-wall attitude....... planning to be at Glass Visions and will sign up as soon as I get some money........... Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 15:03:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:44:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Hey! What's going on here? Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:43:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr27.124357.0> References: <<1999Apr26.172359.0>> Precedence: bulk My first craft fair of the spring is Sunday. We're busy working on new products and new designs. I also got a glass tumbler working (at last). Just tumbled a bunch of Yough scraps until they resembled beautifully colored beach glass and glued them down as the start of a mosaic. Still need to do the corner pieces and grout. Also tossed in a few clear scraps and am turning those into a crazy quilt piece. John just called me to come and pick out glass for butterflies! Meanwhile, step-grandson isworking with us on a woodworking project for his mother... Off to butterflies...Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 15:07:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:19:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Elisabeth meeting ya all in USA Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:18:41 -0700 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990427131841.00a33bc0@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> References: <<199904271726.RAA18383@saturn.nildram.co.uk>> Precedence: bulk At 06:24 PM 4/27/99 +0000, Elisabeth wrote: >I am now also beginning to get personal "descriptions", like Steve is >the one with Y-chromosomes (what does Vic have then???) Looks like I'll have to share that distinction :-) I think we better include Mr. O'Tutu also. I'll be in Maryland for the 8/14-15 workshop. Is that where you're meeting up with Vic, too? Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 15:21:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:50:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Elisabeth meeting ya all in USA Date: Tue Apr 27 13:48:51 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr28.112651.0> Precedence: bulk I don't have any chromosomes. I am actually one of those space aliens you read about. (Not one of the ones Mike hangs out with. Those aliens are a fun group but a totally different spices.) My ship broke down a few decades back and am killing time while waiting for a tow. You know how long it takes the automobile club to show up when your car breaks down? Just imagine how long it takes when you are a couple of light years from the nearest garage. Feel free to tell the government about me. They won't believe you but it will get me on the talk show circuit; maybe even a guest appearance on X-Files. This is beginning to sound good, where do I turn myself in? A Bungi cord is a black or nylon covered high tensile strength elastic cord generally used as a tie down. Rumor has it they do exist over there. Vic M. (Strange visitor from another planet .....) Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com -----Original Message----- From: Toby [mailto:toby@northlights.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 2:24 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Elisabeth meeting ya all in USA Hi everybody, Time is marching on, D-day is getting closer and a lot of things appear to be happening behind the scenes. I am now getting e-mails (as well as sending them myself...) about how do we know who is whom when we get together. How do we identify each other.... and what IS a "Bungi-Cord"?????? ... Holler if you are not listed but intend to be there, please. I am now also beginning to get personal "descriptions", like Steve is the one with Y-chromosomes (what does Vic have then???) ... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 15:40:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:53:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Toby Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Elisabeth meeting ya all in USA Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:51:29 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr27.105129.0> References: <<199904271726.RAA18383@saturn.nildram.co.uk>> Precedence: bulk > List is as per how I found them on my 'puter system chronologically > and applies to Glass Visions / Maryland only --- initially (get to > the others a little later). > > Suzanne Albright > Lenore W > Kaye Sodt > Suzanne de Tulsa (sounds good, huh!?) > Abbie > Steve W > Nadine > Christie Wood (still OK??) > Sparks?? > Dorothy K ('n OF COURSE P I E R R E !!)<--WAY cool, I cant *wait* to meet Peirre~!! ;o> Ann - Harvard Glass > Val - Pittsburgh > Vic Modiano > Dava Kopp (N. Carolina) > Linda Jo > Linda Campbell > Mr. O'Tutu might make a "Special Guest Appearance" > .....somewhere..... (now, wouldn't you like to know, folks!?) Sounds good to *me*...I'll be there, come Hell or High water....as they say in Oklahoma...thankfully the water is already receding, but Hell is quickly approaching....(summer temps). I'm so excited...I could pop! ;o) Cant wait to meet you guys!!!! T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 15:51:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:55:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Elisabeth meeting ya all in USA Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:53:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr27.125321.0> References: <<199904271726.RAA18383@saturn.nildram.co.uk>> Precedence: bulk Toby wrote: > ... > A quick count on the last couple pof months e-mails I have received, > reveals the following people at Glass Visions and/or Jenna Meredith's > in Maryland; > ... > Dorothy K ('n OF COURSE P I E R R E !!) I must warn you, Pierre HATES to be stared at and admired, so he will be elusive, and since Elisabeth won't be able to bring Toby the mighty tracker, she's going to have to look real hard. (Ever notice how "shy" guys manage to bring more attention to themselves?) John, my other half, will be with me at Glass Visions. Incidentally, during the time Elisabeth was claiming to be hors de combat with a terrible cold, we heard from the Continent that Jacques was being stalked (nothing alarming, really, particularly since he LOVES being admired)...hmmm... Dorothy K Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 16:00:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:46:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: springtime... Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:45:52 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr27.134552.0> Precedence: bulk The Iris panels are beautiful....It's like springtime all year long....Abbie in Va ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 16:56:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:52:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Elisabeth meeting ya all in USA Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:10:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr27.131033.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Toby" >Christie Wood (still OK??)< Yes, still on for the Sunday. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 17:04:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:53:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Updated web site. Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:10:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr27.131031.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:Romajoco@aol.com >I went and looked at them yesterday....they are beautiful. I know both you = and your customers are proud of the way they came out. Did you say what size = they are...if you did I do not remember.< Thanks to all who sent me messages. As to the size, if you consider them to be 2 windows, each window is 47" wide x 50" tall. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 17:05:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:00:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Witchdoc3@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Elisabeth meeting ya all in USA Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:57:12 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr27.115712.0> References: <<1999Apr27.20375.0>> Precedence: bulk > 5'5" or so, two X chromosomes, 45 going on 46 going on 14, very > ordinary-looking (although my sweetie disagrees), neither particularly skinny > nor particularly chubby, medium brown hair with a bit of salt-and-pepper > through it (usually pulled back in a bun these days), green eyes, great big > frameless glasses, no makeup, *very* casual and often just plain sloppy > dresser, off-the-wall attitude....... planning to be at Glass Visions and > will sign up as soon as I get some money........... > > > Sparks > I cant wait to see you Sparks! :o) In *my minds eye.... You are one of those long legged, red haired, green eyed Goddesses, that most men knock each other down to just get a look at! ;o) Never in my wildest dreams would I have pictured you in a bun! ;o) I have some of that salt and pepper too, but it looks kind of like I walked through a spiders web! ;o) T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 17:21:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:11:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: behind again Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:06:32 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr27.12632.0> Precedence: bulk Just wanted to let you guys know, I am way behind on email...I have 472 unread messages in my box now. Have noticed a few people getting tired of response so emailing me again... lol.. Im gonna really try to at least scan before I delete...but I may end up missing something in trying to get some of this stuff outta here. Im not ignoring anyone....it appears that once really behind....always really behind. T Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 17:44:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:15:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Updated web site. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 23:13:22 +0000 Message-ID: <199904272215.WAA28147@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Christie, I managed to have a look at your irises. Found them most impressive and liked them a lot. Have been thinking myself about doing shower screens (sort of a natural progression to doing foldable room dividers...) Will hopefully be able to discuss the construction of the frame-work with you. Thank you for sharing. Elisabeth 'n stay-at-home Toby in UK Christie wrote: > This is the 2nd set of bi-fold panels that are like inside shutters > which I have done. But these are the largest ones I've done. I > had the frames custom made by a local cabinet-maker who did > a fantasic job. Charged an arm & a leg too, but the end result > is wonderful craftsmanship. You can also get shutter blanks > at Home Depot in various sizes. That's what I did for the other > set of 4 bi-fold stained glass shutters. I stained the wooden > frame myself. > > Christie A. Wood > Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, > P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 > http://www.igga.org/wood/ > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 18:54:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:11:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Elisabeth meeting ya all in USA Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 01:09:23 +0000 Message-ID: <199904280011.AAA30605@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hi Steve... Dunno... Vic, IS IT ???? Elisabeth 'n stay-at-home Toby in UK Steve W. wrote: > I'll be in Maryland for the 8/14-15 workshop. Is that where you're meeting > up with Vic, too? ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 18:55:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:12:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Elisabeth meeting ya all in USA Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 01:09:23 +0000 Message-ID: <199904280011.AAA30599@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Ach, Petal, I promise you, I'll wear my very pretty lace veil! Pierre will feel no slight at all and I will make certain I play my cards right.... Aaaaggghhhh! Sigh..... Romance At last...!! Elisabeth la Suedoise en Angleterre Dorothy wrote: > I must warn you, Pierre HATES to be stared at and admired, so he will be > elusive, and since Elisabeth won't be able to bring Toby the mighty > tracker, she's going to have to look real hard. (Ever notice how "shy" > guys manage to bring more attention to themselves?) John, my other half, > will be with me at Glass Visions. > > Incidentally, during the time Elisabeth was claiming to be hors de combat > with a terrible cold, we heard from the Continent that Jacques was being > stalked (nothing alarming, really, particularly since he LOVES being > admired)...hmmm... > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 19:23:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:12:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE: Elisabeth meeting ya all in USA Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 01:09:23 +0000 Message-ID: <199904280011.AAA30602@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Good enough for me, Vic, I always wanted to meet a real Alien!!! We'll have a BALL!!! I'll expect poor Suzanne Albright to bring me back safe and sound for a good night's sleep, safely tucked under her wings. Philadelphia, Maryland, Allentown is is now coming alive..... I am getting new & more e-mails from people from the West Coast and Mid Country about our vwnues there.. That's just GREAT!! As soon as I have flight details, I'll be letting you all know. Elisabeth 'n stay-at-home Toby in UK Vic wrote: > I don't have any chromosomes. I am actually one of those space aliens you > read about. > (Not one of the ones Mike hangs out with. Those aliens are a fun group but a > totally different spices.) > > My ship broke down a few decades back and am killing time while waiting for > a tow. You know how long it takes the > automobile club to show up when your car breaks down? Just imagine how long > it takes when you are a couple of light years from the nearest garage. > > Feel free to tell the government about me. They won't believe you but it > will get me on the talk show circuit; maybe even a guest appearance on > X-Files. This is beginning to sound good, where do I turn myself in? ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 19:29:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:24:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Elisabeth meeting ya all in USA Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 00:47:09 +0000 Message-ID: <199904272349.XAA30262@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Gggrummmphhh, This is Toby in England What was that about "stow-away bisquits".... Hmmm........ I might just think about that. I'd much rather prefer some Irish Rump-steak. But don't you dare to cheat me!!! I recognize poisoned Rat's meat from miles away. I am not sure I like the fuss going on right now.....what's in it for ME??? E I G H T weeks of hard work growling at people approaching the house. Hmmmm. Have to think about that dilemma. Must be worth a lot of bisquits....... Braybark Toby Tobias in UK > Toby ,we will be thinking of you when your Elisabeth is here with us....We > will make sure P Kelly and his TUTU behave and I hear there may be some > stowaway biscuits on the return trip home to you...in the meantime , thank > you for sharing your beloved Elisabeth with us...Abbie in Va. > -----Original Message----- > From: Toby > To: glass@bungi.com > Date: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 3:41 PM > Subject: Elisabeth meeting ya all in USA > > > >Hi everybody, > > > >Time is marching on, D-day is getting closer and a lot of things > >appear to be happening behind the scenes. > >I am now getting e-mails (as well as sending them myself...) about > >how do we know who is whom when we get together. How do we identify > >each other.... and what IS a "Bungi-Cord"?????? > > > >How many people will be where....? > >A quick count on the last couple pof months e-mails I have received, > >reveals the following people at Glass Visions and/or Jenna Meredith's > >in Maryland; > > > >Holler if you are not listed but intend to be there, please. > >I am now also beginning to get personal "descriptions", like Steve is > >the one with Y-chromosomes (what does Vic have then???) > >List is as per how I found them on my 'puter system chronologically > >and applies to Glass Visions / Maryland only --- initially (get to > >the others a little later). > > > >Suzanne Albright > >Lenore W > >Kaye Sodt > >Suzanne de Tulsa (sounds good, huh!?) > >Abbie > >Steve W > >Nadine > >Christie Wood (still OK??) > >Sparks?? > >Dorothy K ('n OF COURSE P I E R R E !!) > >Ann - Harvard Glass > >Val - Pittsburgh > >Vic Modiano > >Dava Kopp (N. Carolina) > >Linda Jo > >Linda Campbell > >Mr. O'Tutu might make a "Special Guest Appearance" > >.....somewhere..... (now, wouldn't you like to know, folks!?) > > > > > >Am I missing anybody travelling to Allentown and/or > >Maryland/Philadelphia??? > > > >I will meet up with Carol 'n more people in Seattle / Vancouver..... > >but WHERE will I meet up with Pam...? > >Anyhow, folks, as regards Allentown / Maryland area, this is far as I > >have got...... > >Fill me in!! > > > >Roll on August! > > > >Elisabeth 'n stay-at-home Toby in UK > >---- > >As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" > >North Lights Stained Glass - homepage > >http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm > >---- > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 19:59:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:55:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr From: CncptThnkr@aol.com To: shad@mail2.nai.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Hey! What's going on here? Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:29:05 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr28.0295.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/27/99 6:03:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, shad@mail2.nai.net writes: > I also got a glass tumbler working (at last). Hey Dorothy, Is a glass tumbler the same as a rock tumbler? Do you use the same type of grit? I have wanted to make "beach glass" for so long. I'd love to hear the details from anyone who has done it. Thanks, IA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 22:53:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:48:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stainedglassartists.com!Pam From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Elisabeth meeting ya all in USA Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:46:22 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr27.134622.0> Organization: Stained Glass Artists/MM Ltd. Precedence: bulk Elisabeth wrote: I will meet up with Carol 'n more people in Seattle / Vancouver..... but WHERE will I meet up with Pam...? Hi Elisabeth & all, My schedule allows me to be up in Seattle on September 19th. So I'll be seeing you guys then and I can't wait!! I don't know of anyone else besides Carol and Cheryl that will be in Seattle. If anyone else decides to take in the workshop we can see about group hotel rates maybe eh? Cheryl's place I think is gonna be way small for all of us to bunk. Cheryl already has her spot reserved at Northwest regarding the workshop and she's really excited about it. I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to giving you all a hug and laughing the night away. Pam -- ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://www.stainedglassartists.com/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Apr 27 22:53:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:12:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: "Toby" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Hey! What's going on here? Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 23:14:39 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr27.181439.0> Precedence: bulk Lest we keep everyone in the dark, The photo "E" is referring to is of a Scotsman wearing a kilt in a strong wind.... and is the answer to the age old question "What does a Scotsman wear under his kilt" .... I still have it and can send it to anyone who wants to know. (8-) -----Original Message----- From: Toby To: glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 9:47 AM Subject: Re: Hey! What's going on here? > > >Ohhh schucks!!! >And there it was ME (and Toby!) thinking that it was Mr. O'Tutu >himeslf sporting a new celtic type tutu!!! > >Toby took one look at that nice rump steak and said YES PLEEZE!! > >Or is this a wicked trick by Patrick O'Tutu to throw Toby off the >sense??? > >We want to KNOW!! >Elisabeth 'n stay-at-home Toby in UK > > >Suzanne Tulsa wrote: >>really great! 'Specially if you wear that kilt! Get a little >>breeze goin...(you can put a fan under a table) and you will have >>lots of people coming to check out your booth! ;o) >---- >As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" >North Lights Stained Glass - homepage >http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm >---- >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 28 02:27:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 01:28:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep From: "Brian Shepherd" To: , , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Hey! What's going on here? Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:51:01 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr28.9511.0> Precedence: bulk Hello there I have made beach glass and noticed something interesting. I put my scraps in the barrel - mostly rectangles, triangles and trapezoids and thought the corners would round off. Well they did a little but not enough to give that real beach glass look so I tumbled again for two more days and there was little impovement! What I did notice was that the pieces were getting thinner. I think you might have to load only a small amount of glass to ensure that it tumbles properly. I didn't go any further with it but have always meant to. I did decide that to simply frost it takes very little tumble time as well (unless you want very thin glass that is!) The finish was a little too uniform as well. BG has chips and dinks that make it more interesting as well as a difficult to reproduce irregularity but then that makes projects harder so---! I used ordinary grit but can't remember what size. If you really want to know I can still find out. I think I would use something fairly coarse if I were you. Beach glass tends to be from bottles etc and is curved and of varying thickness so doesn't stick together like flat does in the tumbler. When you get right down to it there is nothing like the natural process! Even if you don't get much of a colour range! Mostly clear, green and brown but I have found dark blue and - very rare - just one small piece of red! I did make a lamp from real BG many years ago that I still have. Early blundering days and a very great test of my resolve but it has survived and represents many walks on many beaches with my lovely wife. Best regards BtB >Is a glass tumbler the same as a rock tumbler? Do you use the same type of >grit? I have wanted to make "beach glass" for so long. I'd love to hear the >details from anyone who has done it. > >Thanks, > >IA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 28 03:36:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 03:19:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mpx.com.au!ktsplash From: "ktsplash" To: "Bungi List" Subject: Re: NG-Haiku Messages Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:11:55 +1000 Message-ID: <1999Apr29.61155.0> Precedence: bulk ROFL! Katie -----Original Message----- From: ATF Distribution Center-K. See To: bungi Date: Wednesday, 28 April 1999 0:55 Subject: NG-Haiku Messages >>> Subject: HAIKU MESSAGES IMPROVE ERROR DIALOG BOXES >>> > Sony has announced its own computer operating system now available on >its >hot new portable PC called the Vaio. Instead of producing the cryptic >error >messages characteristic of Microsoft's Windows 95, 3.1, and DOS >operating >systems, Sony's chairman Asai Tawara said, "We intend to capture the >high >ground by putting a human, Japanese face on what has been - until now - >an >operating system that reflects Western cultural hegemony. >>> >"For example, we have replaced the impersonal and unhelpful Microsoft >error >messages with our own Japanese haiku poetry." The chairman went on to >give >examples of Sony's new error messages: >>> >>> A file that big? >>> It might be very useful. >>> But now it is gone. >>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >>> The Web site you seek >>> cannot be located but >>> countless more exist >>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >>> Chaos reigns within. >>> Reflect, repent, and reboot. >>> Order shall return. >>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >>> ABORTED effort: >>> Close all that you have worked on. >>> You ask way too much. >>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >>> Yesterday it worked >>> Today it is not working >>> Windows is like that. >>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >>> First snow, then silence. >>> This thousand dollar screen dies >>> so beautifully. >>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >>> With searching comes loss >>> and the presence of absence: >>> "My Novel" not found. >>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >>> The Tao that is seen >>> Is not the true Tao, until >>> You bring fresh toner. >>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >>> Windows NT crashed. >>> I am the Blue Screen of Death. >>> No one hears your screams. >>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >>> Stay the patient course >>> Of little worth is your ire >>> The network is down >>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >>> A crash reduces >>> your expensive computer >>> to a simple stone. >>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >>> Three things are certain: >>> Death, taxes, and lost data. >>> Guess which has occurred. >>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >>> You step in the stream, >>> but the water has moved on. >>> This page is not here. >>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >>> Out of memory. >>> We wish to hold the whole sky, >>> But we never will. >>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >>> Having been erased, >>> the document you're seeking >>> Must now be retyped. >>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >>> Serious error. >>> All shortcuts have disappeared. >>> Screen. Mind. Both are blank >>> >>A crash reduces >>your expensive computer >>to a simple stone. > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 28 06:43:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 06:05:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Hey! What's going on here? Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:03:25 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr28.13325.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/28/99 5:27:48 AM, bshep@dircon.co.uk writes: >Beach glass tends to be from bottles etc and is curved and of varying >thickness so doesn't stick together like flat does in the tumbler. Howzabout breaking a bottle or two and putting it into the tumbler along with your flat glass? Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 28 07:10:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 06:12:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Elisabeth meeting ya all in USA Date: Wed Apr 28 06:12:01 1999 Message-ID: <1999Apr29.3501.0> Precedence: bulk Vic M. will be meeting up with you at Glass Vision on Saturday. Not quite sure what it's going to be like but it will be an experience to be remembered. I am positive that Sparks, Elizabeth, Suzanne de T. and the rest of the Bungi Ladies are pretty enough to make Pierre Drool and overcome his shyness. Vic M. Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com PS Exactly how many kilos of stow-away bisquits can you handle? -----Original Message----- From: Toby [mailto:toby@northlights.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 9:09 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Elisabeth meeting ya all in USA Hi Steve... Dunno... Vic, IS IT ???? Elisabeth 'n stay-at-home Toby in UK Steve W. wrote: > I'll be in Maryland for the 8/14-15 workshop. Is that where you're meeting > up with Vic, too? ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 28 07:41:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 06:35:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: socent.org!atf From: "ATF Distribution Center-K. See" To: bungi , "glass@intrastar.net" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: NG-Need a break from Last Week News? Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:18:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr28.51829.0> Organization: SOC Enterprises Precedence: bulk I was delighted to read this at 6 am before work. After last week is was sorely needed. Hope you enjoy it. K See http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1999-04/28/023l-042899-idx.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 28 08:06:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 07:15:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE: Elisabeth meeting ya all in USA Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:12:40 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <199904281415.JAA09415@relay.acns.nwu.edu> Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk Speaking of Mike--has he been abducted by those aliens? He's been pretty quiet of late. Maybe soldered inside of Sky City? Hey Mike, any chance you'll be at Glass Visions? Kaye Vic wrote: > I don't have any chromosomes. I am actually one of those space aliens you > read about. > (Not one of the ones Mike hangs out with. Those aliens are a fun group but a > totally different spices.) > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 28 08:29:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 07:52:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "bungi.com" Subject: Meeting up at Glass Visions Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:51:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr28.65123.0> Precedence: bulk I guess at Glass Visions I will wear a Carmen Miranda hat, you know the one with fruit on the top so you can recognize me. Or lets see, maybe I will carry a long stem rose in my mouth, or better yet a nice cigar.... no forget the cigar.... I figure I am going to make it no matter what. I know!!!, you will recognize me as I will be the one with bags under my eyes from driving 1200 miles in one shot. Linda Jo ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 28 09:11:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:11:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aries17.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Zinc came, thanks Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:05:15 -0400 Message-ID: <199904281505.LAA04560@aries17.uwaterloo.ca> Precedence: bulk Thanks to everybody who responded to my question. I have it clear now. I just have to finish foiling --which is a rather slow process :) and start soldering. I hope I'll soon have something to show. dmg -- Daniel M. German "Compared to the real life, even the best on-line "virtual spaces" The Economist -> are cartoons" http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 28 09:33:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:23:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Brian Shepherd" , Subject: Re: Hey! What's going on here? Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:10:15 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr28.11015.0> Precedence: bulk |The finish was a little too uniform as well. BG has chips and dinks that |make it more interesting as well as a difficult to reproduce irregularity |but then that makes projects harder so---! I used ordinary grit but can't |remember what size. If you really want to know I can still find out. I think |I would use something fairly coarse if I were you. What if you put some small metal ball or needle bearings, or BB's in with the glass load? Would this give you the needed hardness, to give you the dings, and chips? Also, what about using common sand along with decreasing amount of the commercial grit? It would slow down a little the process, only might give a little more of the effect looked for. Just some thoughts,,, Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ -----Original Message----- From: Brian Shepherd To: CncptThnkr@aol.com ; shad@mail2.nai.net ; glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 02:24 AM Subject: Re: Hey! What's going on here? |Hello there | |I have made beach glass and noticed something interesting. | |I put my scraps in the barrel - mostly rectangles, triangles and trapezoids |and thought the corners would round off. Well they did a little but not |enough to give that real beach glass look so I tumbled again for two more |days and there was little impovement! What I did notice was that the pieces |were getting thinner. I think you might have to load only a small amount of |glass to ensure that it tumbles properly. I didn't go any further with it |but have always meant to. | |I did decide that to simply frost it takes very little tumble time as well |(unless you want very thin glass that is!) | |The finish was a little too uniform as well. BG has chips and dinks that |make it more interesting as well as a difficult to reproduce irregularity |but then that makes projects harder so---! I used ordinary grit but can't |remember what size. If you really want to know I can still find out. I think |I would use something fairly coarse if I were you. | |Beach glass tends to be from bottles etc and is curved and of varying |thickness so doesn't stick together like flat does in the tumbler. When you |get right down to it there is nothing like the natural process! Even if you |don't get much of a colour range! Mostly clear, green and brown but I have |found dark blue and - very rare - just one small piece of red! | |I did make a lamp from real BG many years ago that I still have. Early |blundering days and a very great test of my resolve but it has survived and |represents many walks on many beaches with my lovely wife. | |Best regards | |BtB | | | | | |>Is a glass tumbler the same as a rock tumbler? Do you use the same type of |>grit? I have wanted to make "beach glass" for so long. I'd love to hear |the |>details from anyone who has done it. |> |>Thanks, |> |>IA | | |---- |For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com |To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com |Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 28 09:40:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:23:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Kaye Sodt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Elisabeth meeting ya all in USA Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:22:48 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr28.52248.0> References: <<199904281415.JAA09415@relay.acns.nwu.edu>> Precedence: bulk > > Speaking of Mike--has he been abducted by those aliens? He's been > pretty quiet of late. Maybe soldered inside of Sky City? Hey Mike, > any chance you'll be at Glass Visions? > > Kaye > What a cool place that would be to live. Whew...colors.... I was just wandering myself about you Mike....you arent far away...will you be there? T Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 28 10:43:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:41:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr From: CncptThnkr@aol.com To: Witchdoc3@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: do it yourself beach glass and a saw/grinder question Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:40:19 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr28.164019.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/28/99 9:44:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Witchdoc3@aol.com writes: > Howzabout breaking a bottle or two and putting it into the tumbler along with > > your flat glass? > Hey Sparks, That's just what I was thinking. And ya know, there are wonderful blue Arizona Iced Tea bottles.......if you need me for anything, I'll be at the liquor store looking for something in a red bottle Ok, my other issue right now is, I know you can cut ceramic floor tile with the band saw for glass (or so they said), but can ya smooth the edges with your glass grinder (the hypothetical one none of us use)??? I'm going to TRY and install mosaic tile on the bathroom floor and was wondering if a glass grinder can take off any rough edges I may accidentally add to the tiles when I am cutting them. Thanks in advance. IA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 28 11:08:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:23:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: StlMgnlia@aol.com Subject: Re: Tampa show Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:30:07 +0000 Message-ID: <199904281722.NAA11197@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > I was in Las Vegas this April and heard several folks speak about a > trade show in Tampa, Florida this September. Do you have any > information on this that you couls forward to me ? Yup. Just go to our web site, click on "Search this site" and type in "Tampa" ... it'll show you exactly where the information's located. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 28 12:12:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:18:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netusa1.net!t6686 From: L Nelson To: CncptThnkr@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Hey! What's going on here? Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:28:13 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr28.62813.0> References: <<1999Apr28.0295.0>> Precedence: bulk I would like information on were to purchase a glass tumbler and how much they run?? Thanks Laura and any information about them thanks again. CncptThnkr@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/27/99 6:03:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > shad@mail2.nai.net writes: > > > I also got a glass tumbler working (at last). > > Hey Dorothy, > > Is a glass tumbler the same as a rock tumbler? Do you use the same type of > grit? I have wanted to make "beach glass" for so long. I'd love to hear the > details from anyone who has done it. > > Thanks, > > IA > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 28 12:37:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:43:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: ceramic tles Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:36:21 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr28.43621.0> Precedence: bulk Save the band saw.......... SCORE the ceramic tile with a carbide cutter, put a 1/8" diameter dowel under the score and stand on either side of the score and press down................ You can take a LOT of liberties with ceramic tile........they are not very fragile usually a LOT harder than glass! TIP!!!!!when installing you want the colored side facing UP........(this also is a good tip....green side up, too for planting all but root stock)! A masonry carbide bit will easily punch a hole in a tile as well..........Hardest part is to get and keep it all straight and even.....IMHO use a small spacer.......wide grout lines in small areas look "forced". Using the plastic crosses (spacers) you should have only scored tile edges under a molding or not butting up to a "factory" edge.......grind to fit around curves and so on. They above advice is from years of experience and 3 major tile jobs, full floor, half way up the walls and on the ceiling over the tub/shower.............another full floor and up around a 6 foot soaker tub and all on a 45 degree angle to the walls. also an atrium and there too, all labor. Best part, no foiling and soldering........and usually color phasing is not critical either! enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com Elaine and Howard best lamps on the "net": http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 28 12:41:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:29:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: rougenet.qc.ca!lostrivrbt From: Helen Gebhardt & Mark Reynolds To: glass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Delurk and "Canadian Stained Glass Community?" Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 15:00:02 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr28.1102.0> Organization: Lost River Boutique Precedence: bulk Just 'delurking'. Well, I didn't lurk long, I just joined the mailing list! :-) I'm a 39 yr old maleCanadian Artist (no this is not a personal ad!), have been earning my livelihood through my art for the past 8 years, mosty jewelry making. I've finally begun working in stained glass this year. I studied in an an intensive apprenticeship type training at Studio du Verre in Montreal and have set up my studio out of our small boutique in the Quebec Laurentian Mountains. http://www.lostriverboutique.com We are fairly off of the beaten path, with a busy few months in the summer (cottage country and all of that) and quiet for about 8 months a year! I've been experimenting with online auctions and such and have had some success (not that I'm looking to glut my markets, but other 'backwoods' artists such as myself might want to look into the possibilities!) I've also desided to throw some energy into promoting the Canadian stained glass community by creating a website for the same. http://www.stainedglasscanada.com It is brand spanking new and I am still in the process of submitting it to the search engines and getting the word out, but if you are canadian and have a visit, I think you may get an idea of it's potential usefulness. Finally, I've set up a few websites for myself and friends, and though I'm no expert, if anyone out there needs any direction (non-Canadians included) I might be able to point you to web resources (the cheap-to-free kind). I'm pleased to join this mailing list and look forward to the communication, Mark Reynolds lostrivrbt@rougenet.qc.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 28 13:08:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:47:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stainedglassartists.com!Pam From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Tampa Show Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:45:03 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr28.4453.0> Organization: Stained Glass Artists/MM Ltd. Precedence: bulk Or try this http://www.glassart.org/conferences/conf1.html Click on Sizzling Sands -- ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://www.stainedglassartists.com/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 28 13:23:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:17:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BobDu From: "Bob Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: do it yourself beach glass and a saw/grinder question Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:11:15 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr28.51115.0> Precedence: bulk Glass or anything else for that matter in a tumbler is going to wear down evenly all over. So.......... well rounded corners mean thin glass when nominal 1/8" stained glass is used. I do not recommend using a diamond bandsaw or grinder for creamic floor tiles. There are harder things than glass in ceramic tile and blade/head wear is high. You can purchase a tile scorer for not much and make straight cuts. Perhaps with a bit of practice you could even make curves and use your breakers to pull off the waste. This from the guy that sharpened a lawn mower blade on a diamond grinder. After all diamond is harder than glass, right. True but the nickel or whatever holds the diamond in place is not. .................Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. -----Original Message----- From: CncptThnkr@aol.com To: Witchdoc3@aol.com ; glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 11:04 AM Subject: do it yourself beach glass and a saw/grinder question >In a message dated 4/28/99 9:44:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >Witchdoc3@aol.com writes: > >> Howzabout breaking a bottle or two and putting it into the tumbler along >with >> >> your flat glass? >> >Hey Sparks, > >That's just what I was thinking. And ya know, there are wonderful blue >Arizona Iced Tea bottles.......if you need me for anything, I'll be at the >liquor store looking for something in a red bottle > >Ok, my other issue right now is, I know you can cut ceramic floor tile with >the band saw for glass (or so they said), but can ya smooth the edges with >your glass grinder (the hypothetical one none of us use)??? I'm going to TRY >and install mosaic tile on the bathroom floor and was wondering if a glass >grinder can take off any rough edges I may accidentally add to the tiles when >I am cutting them. Thanks in advance. > >IA >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 28 13:42:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:14:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: CncptThnkr@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Hey! What's going on here? Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 15:55:48 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr28.85548.0> References: <<1999Apr28.0295.0@[207.126.97.2]>> Organization: SBWSA Precedence: bulk I think a glass/rock tumbler is a good idea. Just remember "real" sea glass is being tossed around by the ocean with rocks, sand, water for quite awhile before it looks like what you want. The commercially produced that I've seen, is simply glass we use and I can tell, can even identify the glass, so I'd go with bottle glass. Blue was at one time the most prized, but with the advent of micro breweries and new colored bottles, I'd go for the red. Better yet, take a vacation, go to the ocean, and pick up your own. I keep telling my sister in law in NJ she can market the stuff she keeps picking up there off the beach, she has it all over the house. Mine, if I don't start doing something with it, will be antique glass pretty soon. Anyway, give the tumbler a chance to work. Carol T CncptThnkr@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/27/99 6:03:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > shad@mail2.nai.net writes: > > > I also got a glass tumbler working (at last). > > Hey Dorothy, > > Is a glass tumbler the same as a rock tumbler? Do you use the same type of > grit? I have wanted to make "beach glass" for so long. I'd love to hear the > details from anyone who has done it. > > Thanks, > > IA > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 28 14:12:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:49:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Hey! What's going on here? Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 16:47:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr28.124716.0> References: <<255c22c2.2457b051@aol.com>> Precedence: bulk Whoops, of course I meant rock tumbler, but almost typed glass again, since there's never been a rock in it. It doesn't tumble, either, but vibrates. (for those who are confused) Bought it at a local rock shop. CncptThnkr@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/27/99 6:03:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > shad@mail2.nai.net writes: > > > I also got a glass tumbler working (at last). > > Hey Dorothy, > > Is a glass tumbler the same as a rock tumbler? Do you use the same type of > grit? I have wanted to make "beach glass" for so long. I'd love to hear the > details from anyone who has done it. > > Thanks, > > IA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 28 15:14:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 14:44:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Kaye Sodt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Elisabeth meeting ya all in USA Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 17:43:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr28.134344.0> References: <<199904281415.JAA09415@relay.acns.nwu.edu>> Precedence: bulk Kaye Sodt wrote: > > Speaking of Mike--has he been abducted by those aliens? He's been > pretty quiet of late. Maybe soldered inside of Sky City? Hey Mike, > any chance you'll be at Glass Visions? > > Kaye > > Vic wrote: > > I don't have any chromosomes. I am actually one of those space aliens you > > read about. > > (Not one of the ones Mike hangs out with. Those aliens are a fun group but a > > totally different spices.) > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass probably not... recently i got a new job that's full time - at E.F. Britten (we make de-icing parts for mid-sized planes)... but also because i'm doing research and making room for the new computer i'm getting for my self :) yay!!! so currently i'm in lurk mode, popping out every so often. latley though the conversion is about shooting people, stones, and a few other things i'm not in to... except for the shooting of course... hopefully once i get the new machine, i figure by mid may (when ever the 550's come out); and everything get's transfered, etc. i'll have more time to post. i've gotten some more skycity stuff done, though it still has a ling way to go. i was right in the middle of getting the floor done when my mother's machine (which i call mine), was'nt working right. she told me that it was somehow my fault, that i put something new in there and it stopped working. and told me i should get my own computer.... hmm my own eh? and since then i've been planning everything out. running new power and network lines, cable etc., to my desk. and i think i'm just about ready, i just have to figure out where the surround speakers are going. and how to transfer the stuff from this computer to the new one in my room. does anyone know how to do this BTW? everything is hooked up through a hub and i just can't get windows to reconize that another computer is on... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 28 15:42:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 15:02:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: , Subject: Re: do it yourself beach glass and a saw/grinder question Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:00:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr28.1408.0> Precedence: bulk I have done a lot of tile over the years, and never had a problem or even the need to grind. When I am doing a floor, my cut edge of the tile usually falls under the molding or in a corner. So you do not have to grind those. I can't even think where I would want to grind, but you could give it a try. I found that when I was doing the floor or wall and needed to cut, I just rented the hand scorer/breaker (rather large gizmo the tile store lent out) and did my thing. I have had a couple odd breaks, just like a bad score in glass and just chucked that tile and recut it. I always bought more tile than needed for recuts... :-) I did have a professional re-do my master shower a year ago and he had the scorer breaker and a saw that he sawed the tile under water, it made a real clean cut. When I was doing mosaics with tile eons ago, I found the breaks were never what I would have wanted to grind either. Let me know how it works if you do it. I am getting ready to retile a real large area sometime this year. (family room, kitchen, kithcen table area, hall, laundry room) Linda Jo -----Original Message----- From: CncptThnkr@aol.com To: Witchdoc3@aol.com ; glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 1:51 PM Subject: do it yourself beach glass and a saw/grinder question >In a message dated 4/28/99 9:44:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >Witchdoc3@aol.com writes: > >> Howzabout breaking a bottle or two and putting it into the tumbler along >with >> >> your flat glass? >> >Hey Sparks, > >That's just what I was thinking. And ya know, there are wonderful blue >Arizona Iced Tea bottles.......if you need me for anything, I'll be at the >liquor store looking for something in a red bottle > >Ok, my other issue right now is, I know you can cut ceramic floor tile with >the band saw for glass (or so they said), but can ya smooth the edges with >your glass grinder (the hypothetical one none of us use)??? I'm going to TRY >and install mosaic tile on the bathroom floor and was wondering if a glass >grinder can take off any rough edges I may accidentally add to the tiles when >I am cutting them. Thanks in advance. > >IA >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 28 16:45:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 16:20:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bardstown.com!glassx From: "Glass Expressions" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Thanks to all Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:22:53 +0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr29.22253.0> Precedence: bulk Thank you so much for all the magnolia patterns I got the job but could not of with all of the help of whom sent patterns, thanks so very much. ricky ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 28 17:11:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 16:23:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bardstown.com!glassx From: "Glass Expressions" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: more help and advice Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:25:47 +0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr29.22547.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks for the replys on silk screen and paint - know i know a kiln is need for it to be done properly. is there one recommened for this (remembering iI'm new to this silkscreen painting) and also is there a book which one would recomend to do some reserch on this method thanks to much for helping us new people out - ricky ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 28 17:14:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 16:35:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bardstown.com!glassx From: "Glass Expressions" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: drill holes into glass bottles Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:36:58 +0800 Message-ID: <1999Apr29.23658.0> Precedence: bulk Is there a special drill bit used for drilling in glass bottles- a frien gave me glass bits and they broke and would not drill into the glass. any help and suggestions would be appreciated. p.s. is there a drill bit which would fit into the dremel tool. it would be so easy to handle if they do please advise- again thanks so much for all the help - Ricky ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Apr 28 18:18:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 17:22:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Glass Expressions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: drill holes into glass bottles Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:23:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr28.162357.0> References: <<1999Apr29.23658.0>> Precedence: bulk Glass Expressions wrote: > > Is there a special drill bit used for drilling in glass bottles- a frien > gave me glass bits and they broke and would not drill into the glass. any > help and suggestions would be appreciated. p.s. is there a drill bit which > would fit into the dremel tool. it would be so easy to handle if they do > please advise- again thanks so much for all the help - Ricky > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i would just use a grinder bit and do it on the grinder. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 29 01:31:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 01:09:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep From: "Brian Shepherd" To: "Carol Tombro" , , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Hey! What's going on here? Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:09:02 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr29.1092.0> Precedence: bulk Hello You can get some quite subtle greens, faint blues and degrees of amber through to brown in bottles as well as white. Real beach glass can be quite lushious even succulent in appearence and I think that is down to the thickness. I don't think really strong colours would look good. You could always make a panel lamp with medallions made up from BG. That would get around a lot of problems. I have tumbled nuggets as well and made a small shade from those but strangely it looks better switched off! The bulb (quite a low wattage) just washes out the colours. I did wonder if I had made it larger the effect might have been better. If you want to use real beach glass then realise this before you start. It often has a curve which is always the wrong way. Often the curves are complex making flat work difficult. It varies enormously in thickness. The shapes rarely fit well together and can take a lot of grinding (don't even think about grozing!) and have a good supply of solder to hand as well! A warning though - the natural shapes allways look best! It can be very hard to cut by traditional methods. Of course if you are determined to DIY you could always use a kiln and flatten the bottle glass before tumbling!!!! I really depends on how determined you are. I don't know about in the US but many of the rich 'coloured' bottles we see are in fact plastic coated and will certainly disappoint! I really don't think tumbled glass will ever look the same as real beach glass. Of course if somebody wants to prove me wrong I would love to see the result! The lamp I made was a real education but I'm pleased with the result even though I know I could do much better now that I have been glassing for a while. Best of luck! BtB >I think a glass/rock tumbler is a good idea. Just remember "real" sea glass is >being tossed around by the ocean with rocks, sand, water for quite awhile before >it looks like what you want. The commercially produced that I've seen, is simply >glass we use and I can tell, can even identify the glass, so I'd go with bottle >glass. Blue was at one time the most prized, but with the advent of micro >breweries and new colored bottles, I'd go for the red. Better yet, take a >vacation, go to the ocean, and pick up your own. I keep telling my sister in law >in NJ she can market the stuff she keeps picking up there off the beach, she has >it all over the house. Mine, if I don't start doing something with it, will be >antique glass pretty soon. Anyway, give the tumbler a chance to work. > >Carol T > >CncptThnkr@aol.com wrote: > >> In a message dated 4/27/99 6:03:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >> shad@mail2.nai.net writes: >> >> > I also got a glass tumbler working (at last). >> >> Hey Dorothy, >> >> Is a glass tumbler the same as a rock tumbler? Do you use the same type of >> grit? I have wanted to make "beach glass" for so long. I'd love to hear the >> details from anyone who has done it. >> >> Thanks, >> >> IA >> ---- >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 29 06:04:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 05:41:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: nbnet.nb.ca!mschut From: mschut@nbnet.nb.ca (mschut) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: canadian suppliers Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:46:17 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990429084617.08cf2b7e@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca> Precedence: bulk Does anyone know of a stained glass supplier that would sell glass to me (a hobbyist) in the Atlantic Canada area? I need to lower the cost of my product produced, and that can be achieved through ordering wholesale rather than buying retail. Your assistance would be greatly appreciated. Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & ????? Schut Moncton, New Brunswick ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 29 06:21:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 05:50:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netaxs.com!maruca From: maruca@netaxs.com To: Brian Shepherd Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: beach glass, etc was: Re: Hey! What's going on here? Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:48:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1999Apr29.44854.0> References: <<1999Apr29.1092.0>> Precedence: bulk BtB wrote: "I have tumbled nuggets as well and made a small shade from those but strangely it looks better switched off! The bulb (quite a low wattage) just washes out the colours. I did wonder if I had made it larger the effect might have been better." Again I'll refer to that wonderful Tiffany retrospective that NYC's Metropolitan Museum of Art staged last fall and winter. Lenore and I set off the alarms peeking up under a huge shade to see what was going on inside. The glass used in this tribute to a Navajo rug was plain cathedral, similar in light transmitting qualities to your beach glass. Tacked inside that lamp were large slumped (if memory serves) pieces of bluish white opalescent glass to diffuse the light. You might try retrofitting your lamp with something similar. You might also look into different types of compact flourescents. Some that I've used both in the US and Mexico have built in diffusers. They also save you money on elelctric bills and don't throw the heat that regular incandescents do. Good luck, Mary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 29 06:32:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 06:00:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.megsinet.net!pjnelson From: Paula Nelson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: drill holes into glass bottles Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 06:57:35 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr29.15735.0> References: <<1999Apr29.23658.0>> Precedence: bulk >i would just use a grinder bit and do it on the grinder. I have diamond drill bits that are sold by American Science and Surplus (on the net, btw) that are sold in sets for +/- $15 that work in my dremels. I use them for etching, etc.... never thought about drilling with them, hmmmm -;) Paula Nelson uitland@glassdogstudio.com The Glass Dog Studio http://www.glassdogstudio.com/TGDS.htm vom Uitland Rottweilers http://www.glassdogstudio.com/uitland.htm ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 29 06:52:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 06:08:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: "Modiano, Victor" To: 'Glass Expressions' , 'bungi' Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: drill holes into glass bottles Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:52:56 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr29.45256.0> Precedence: bulk I got some used drill bits from my dentist and they go through glass fairly well. Remember that you need to keep the spot you are drilling wet to prevent heat buildup and the resultant cracks. Dental bits have a 1/8" shaft so they are usable in a dremel. If Mike is out there he may be able to tell you where or if you can buy the bits on your own. (I think his dad is a dentist.) Vic M. Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com -----Original Message----- From: Glass Expressions [mailto:glassx@bardstown.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 6:37 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: drill holes into glass bottles Is there a special drill bit used for drilling in glass bottles- a frien gave me glass bits and they broke and would not drill into the glass. any help and suggestions would be appreciated. p.s. is there a drill bit which would fit into the dremel tool. it would be so easy to handle if they do please advise- again thanks so much for all the help - Ricky ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 29 08:34:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:14:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: drill holes into glass bottles Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:11:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr29.71140.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Glass Expressions" >Is there a special drill bit used for drilling in glass bottles- a frien= gave me glass bits and they broke and would not drill into the glass. an= y help and suggestions would be appreciated. p.s. is there a drill bit whi= ch would fit into the dremel tool. it would be so easy to handle if they do please advise- again thanks so much for all the help - Ricky< Yes there are special drill bits for drilling holes in glass, any glass, whether they are bottles or not. You can purchase them at most hardware stores. The thing you need to remember is to go slowly and make sure you keep the drill bit wet. A really good suggestion is to build a little water dam circle around the spot where the hole is to go. Get some putty and just build up a little circle. Start drilling the hole by holding the drill at an angle = - not straight up-and-down. This way you create something for the drill to sink into, and the drill doesn't go skittering all over the glass surface. Don't try to force the drill bit through the glass too quickly. Slow and easy does it. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 29 09:03:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:17:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!dro From: Daniel in Oregon To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Tumbled glass..... Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:18:17 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Apr29.151817.0> References: <<1999Apr29.1092.0>> Precedence: bulk Brian Shepherd wrote: > > Hello > > You can get some quite subtle greens, faint blues and degrees of amber > through to brown in bottles as well as white. Real beach glass can be quite > lushious even succulent in appearence and I think that is down to the > thickness. I don't think really strong colours would look good. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ My Grandfather used to tumble agates, and other rocks...he would also go to ghostowns...and find old broken bottles that had a high lead content...after about 50 years in the sun...this kind of glass turns a light to deep violet. The darker the violet the longer the glass has been under the sun...he would tumble these and make wonderful neclaces and earings...they looked almost like jewels. Daniel in Oregon ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 29 09:04:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:23:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: kwic.com!mnvve3 From: Garry & Linda McKenna To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: canadian suppliers Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:21:35 -0400 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19990429152135.0066fb70@mail.kwic.com> Precedence: bulk As far as I know the nearest wholesale company to you is in Toronto and I doubt if they sell to hobbyists. However, you could check with a friend of mine at Break of Day Stained Glass, Sussex Corner, NB - just down the road from you. Call Janice at 506-432-6682. Tell her I said "Hi". Linda At 08:46 AM 29/4/99, you wrote: >Does anyone know of a stained glass supplier that would sell glass to me (a >hobbyist) in the Atlantic Canada area? > >I need to lower the cost of my product produced, and that can be achieved >through ordering wholesale rather than buying retail. > >Your assistance would be greatly appreciated. >Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & ????? Schut >Moncton, New Brunswick >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > GARRY & LINDA McKENNA TILLSONBURG ONT CANADA 519 842-9909 LINDA'S HOBBY: STAINED GLASS GARRY'S HOBBY: AMATURE RADIO CALL VE3MNV ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 29 10:08:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:42:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ipa.net!gecko From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: drill bits for glass Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:43:03 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr29.6433.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Ricky. I bought my diamond drill bits from: Ackley's Rocks & Stamps 3230 North Stone Avenue Colorado Springs, CO 80907 (719) 633-1153 They were EXCELLENT people to do business with! I bought the 2mm Diamond drill bit, at $3.40 apeice. They may have gone up some since then. I snug it into my dremel with one wrapping of electrical tape around the bit, and it holds just fine. I build a small circular dam of clay around the site I want to drill, drop in about 1/4 tsp. of water and drill it. Cuts the glass like butter. Hope this helps you out. Blake :-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 29 10:39:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:19:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: Lee Boe To: "Christie A. Wood" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: drill holes into glass bottles Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:15:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr16.81520.0> References: <<1999Apr29.71140.0>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk It is easier if you use a 'push pull' motion, allowing water to get into the hole your drilling, instead of steady pressure. This is in addition to all below. On smaller pieces of glass, I put them in a shallow plastic tub, or tray with just enough water to cover the glass. Don't let the drill itself get wet. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations Christie A. Wood wrote: > > Message text written by "Glass Expressions" > >Is there a special drill bit used for drilling in glass bottles- a frien= > > gave me glass bits and they broke and would not drill into the glass. an= > y > help and suggestions would be appreciated. p.s. is there a drill bit whi= > ch > would fit into the dremel tool. it would be so easy to handle if they do > please advise- again thanks so much for all the help - Ricky< > > Yes there are special drill bits for drilling holes in glass, > any glass, whether they are bottles or not. You can purchase > them at most hardware stores. The thing you need to remember > is to go slowly and make sure you keep the drill bit wet. A really > good suggestion is to build a little water dam circle around the > spot where the hole is to go. Get some putty and just build up a > little circle. Start drilling the hole by holding the drill at an angle = > - > not straight up-and-down. This way you create something for > the drill to sink into, and the drill doesn't go skittering all over > the glass surface. Don't try to force the drill bit through the glass > too quickly. Slow and easy does it. > > Christie A. Wood > Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, > P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 > http://www.igga.org/wood/ > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 29 11:44:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:12:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep From: "Brian Shepherd" To: "Daniel in Oregon" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Tumbled glass..... Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 19:10:36 +0100 Message-ID: <1999Apr29.201036.0> Precedence: bulk Daniel I had forgotten completely. Now I remember reading about glass turning violet in the National Geographic when I was a child. There were pictures including one of a house (shack?) that had been built from violet bottles! I was absolutely fascinated - I guess my love of glass goes back further that I thought! Best regards BtB - > >My Grandfather used to tumble agates, and other rocks...he would also >go to ghostowns...and find old broken bottles that had a high lead >content...after about 50 years in the sun...this kind of glass turns >a light to deep violet. The darker the violet the longer the glass >has been under the sun...he would tumble these and make wonderful >neclaces and earings...they looked almost like jewels. > >Daniel in Oregon ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 29 12:15:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:29:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: optonline.net!akatz1 From: "alon" To: "Glass List" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:26:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr29.102611.0> Precedence: bulk Does anyone out there do lampworking or kiln casting? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 29 14:29:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:05:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aries17.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Dumb question, which side first Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 17:01:32 -0400 Message-ID: <199904292101.RAA07427@aries17.uwaterloo.ca> Precedence: bulk Hi Everybody, I have another dumd (ready newbie) question. Which side should I solder first. It is copper foil and some glass is machine rolled (thin), some is Yough (medium) and some is Uruboros (which is very irregular and not 100% flat). I'd like to hear your comments on why either side is better. Maybe I am just too worried and either side is good :) Thanks a lot dmg -- Daniel M. German http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 29 14:56:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:22:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: trellis.net!72867 From: "J&RinMonroe" <72867@trellis.net> To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: French crackle glass Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:05:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr29.7540.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00DA_01BE9230.37A81380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has anyone made a leaded window using French crackle glass? What did = you put on the glass to prevent cement from getting into the cracks when = you cemented the lead. A friend of mine is doing a window in this and = plans on coating the glass with rubber cement but wonders if anyone has = a better suggestion. Thanks in advance, Roseanne ------=_NextPart_000_00DA_01BE9230.37A81380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Has anyone made a leaded window = using French=20 crackle glass?  What did you put on the glass to prevent cement = from=20 getting into the cracks when you cemented the lead.  A friend of = mine is=20 doing a window in this and plans on coating the glass with rubber cement = but=20 wonders if anyone has a better suggestion.
 
Thanks in advance,
Roseanne
------=_NextPart_000_00DA_01BE9230.37A81380-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 29 15:15:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:27:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mindspring.com!pigznpawz From: "Jerri" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Fla. trip Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 17:26:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr29.132616.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all, We are driving down to Orlando next week to stay with some friends in their condo and take our daughter to Disney. We plan on going to the Morse Museum while we're down there. I don't know if we'll have time to stop anywhere else, but are there any other glass places close to Orlando that I might want to check out? Thanks, Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 29 15:54:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:02:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: drill holes into glass bottles Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 18:03:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr29.14339.0> References: <<1999Apr29.45256.0>> Precedence: bulk Modiano, Victor wrote: > > I got some used drill bits from my dentist and they go through glass fairly > well. > Remember that you need to keep the spot you are drilling wet to prevent heat > buildup and the resultant cracks. > Dental bits have a 1/8" shaft so they are usable in a dremel. > > If Mike is out there he may be able to tell you where or if you can buy the > bits on your own. (I think his dad is a dentist.) > > Vic M. > Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Glass Expressions [mailto:glassx@bardstown.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 6:37 AM > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: drill holes into glass bottles > > Is there a special drill bit used for drilling in glass > bottles- a frien > gave me glass bits and they broke and would not drill into > the glass. any > help and suggestions would be appreciated. p.s. is there a > drill bit which > would fit into the dremel tool. it would be so easy to > handle if they do > please advise- again thanks so much for all the help - > Ricky > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: > glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass primarily a dental supplier will have them. but the shafts are really short and difficult to use. you may be able to find them in hardware stores or flea markets (the kind that has boxes of random tools and hardware). that's the best i can think of right now. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 29 16:11:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:14:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: "Daniel M. German" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Dumb question, which side first Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 18:14:32 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr29.141432.0> References: <<199904292101.RAA07427@aries17.uwaterloo.ca>> Precedence: bulk Daniel M. German wrote: > > Hi Everybody, > > I have another dumd (ready newbie) question. Which side should I > solder first. It is copper foil and some glass is machine rolled > (thin), some is Yough (medium) and some is Uruboros (which is very > irregular and not 100% flat). I'd like to hear your comments on why > either side is better. Maybe I am just too worried and either side is > good :) > > Thanks a lot > > dmg > > -- > Daniel M. German > http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html > dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass makes no difference. it all depends on what side is front, what side is back, and where you want the textured side to be. ususally texture is for effect. i'll solder on the front, mainly because i don't want to mess up the project by flipping it over. it flops like a pancake. if you put the texture on the back you'll have to watch out for the glass rising. the texture may push the glass out quite a bit making it look strange on the front. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 29 16:26:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:36:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: glass and fourth graders Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 16:55:56 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Apr29.105556.0> Precedence: bulk I borrowed a small enameling kiln from the college, and gathered my scrap. My students and I are created 1" square pins for their mothers for mother's day. I cut 25 pieces of white glass and 25 pieces of clear glass. I made sacks of duct tape, into which I put a number of scaps. I sent the kids outside with goggles and and hammer, and they made frit. We sifted the frit into three sizes. I also brought along some glass seed beeds of various colors. The kids assembled thier designs, and we let them set up over night. I fired the first batch this am in class. My kids loved it all. The frit smashing, the glass designing, and especially viewing red-hot glass. I got the kind of "ohhs" reserved for fire works when I opened the kiln to check if the glass had completely fused. I also ended up with an enormous supply of frit. Imagine 23 students with an insatiable desire to smash something! Today while the glass fired, I took clear glass, cutters and goggles. We all just practiced using the glass cutter. They loved it. I want to do a sun catcher project with them before schools out. After this positive experience, I really have enjoyed glass and kids mixed together. I was simply afraid to try it before. But all my students really paid attention to my safety rules. I had a variety of staff members including the special ed department. I brought one severely behavior problem student from the Sp. Ed department over to work glass. He had participated in a glass mosaic project with the class in February. Something about glass that soothes the savage beast. Maybe because it has that element of danger? Anyway, I am so excited about planning our next adventure in glass together. cj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 29 17:26:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 16:53:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass From: "K See" To: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: glass and fourth graders Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 19:50:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr29.15503.0> References: <<1999Apr29.105556.0>> Precedence: bulk Thanks for sharing this with us. It sounds like a great time was had by all. If your students didn't know before this I bet they now know how lucky they are to have a teacher like you!! KSee "Art is the only way to run away without leaving home." Twyla Tharp ----- Original Message ----- From: Norman & Claudette Jaramillo To: Bungi Sent: Thursday, April 29, 1999 6:55 PM Subject: glass and fourth graders | I borrowed a small enameling kiln from the college, and gathered my scrap. | My students and I are created 1" square pins for their mothers for mother's | day. I cut 25 pieces of white glass and 25 pieces of clear glass. I made | sacks of duct tape, into which I put a number of scaps. I sent the kids | outside with goggles and and hammer, and they made frit. We sifted the frit | into three sizes. I also brought along some glass seed beeds of various | colors. The kids assembled thier designs, and we let them set up over | night. I fired the first batch this am in class. | | My kids loved it all. The frit smashing, the glass designing, and | especially viewing red-hot glass. I got the kind of "ohhs" reserved for | fire works when I opened the kiln to check if the glass had completely | fused. | | | I also ended up with an enormous supply of frit. Imagine 23 students with | an insatiable desire to smash something! | | Today while the glass fired, I took clear glass, cutters and goggles. We | all just practiced using the glass cutter. They loved it. I want to do a | sun catcher project with them before schools out. After this positive | experience, I really have enjoyed glass and kids mixed together. I was | simply afraid to try it before. But all my students really paid attention | to my safety rules. | | I had a variety of staff members including the special ed department. I | brought one severely behavior problem student from the Sp. Ed department | over to work glass. He had participated in a glass mosaic project with the | class in February. Something about glass that soothes the savage beast. | Maybe because it has that element of danger? | | Anyway, I am so excited about planning our next adventure in glass together. | | cj | | ---- | For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com | To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com | Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass | ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 29 17:46:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 16:41:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netzero.net!kseeglass From: "K See" To: "Daniel M. German" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Dumb question, which side first Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 19:12:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr29.151240.0> References: <<199904292101.RAA07427@aries17.uwaterloo.ca>> Precedence: bulk Hi Daniel I use a lot of different glass and it all depends on what we like. If I want a piece flush on front I tack it on back first. I've had some go both ways on same piece. It's your art and you will know what you like. Always remember to have fun! KSee "Art is the only way to run away without leaving home." Twyla Tharp ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel M. German To: Sent: Thursday, April 29, 1999 5:01 PM Subject: Dumb question, which side first | | Hi Everybody, | | I have another dumd (ready newbie) question. Which side should I | solder first. It is copper foil and some glass is machine rolled | (thin), some is Yough (medium) and some is Uruboros (which is very | irregular and not 100% flat). I'd like to hear your comments on why | either side is better. Maybe I am just too worried and either side is | good :) | | Thanks a lot | | | dmg | | | | | -- | Daniel M. German | http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html | dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca | | | ---- | For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com | To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com | Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass | ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 29 18:58:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 18:38:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mindspring.com!pigznpawz From: "Jerri" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: glass and fourth graders Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:37:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr29.173754.0> References: <<1999Apr29.105556.0>> Precedence: bulk Wow! Where were you when I was in school? In 11th grade, my folks retired to a little redneck town. I'd really been involved in the art program in my old school. Three levels. Very difficult. The teacher said right off to get out if you were just looking for an easy grade. Well, we moved to this school where a coach taught art, and all the kids were in there just to be babysat. One day, we actually did those pictures like you do in kindergarten where you color a rainbow and then color over it with heavy black crayon. Then take a sharp object and scratch out a picture. 11th and 12th graders! Needless to say, I dropped Art, and later went to nursing school. Sounds great CJ! Your kids are lucky to have you! Jerri > I borrowed a small enameling kiln from the college, and gathered my scrap. > My students and I are created 1" square pins for their mothers for mother's > day. I cut 25 pieces of white glass and 25 pieces of clear glass. I made > sacks of duct tape, into which I put a number of scaps. I sent the kids > outside with goggles and and hammer, and they made frit. We sifted the frit > into three sizes. I also brought along some glass seed beeds of various > colors. The kids assembled thier designs, and we let them set up over > night. I fired the first batch this am in class. > > My kids loved it all. The frit smashing, the glass designing, and > especially viewing red-hot glass. I got the kind of "ohhs" reserved for > fire works when I opened the kiln to check if the glass had completely > fused. > > > I also ended up with an enormous supply of frit. Imagine 23 students with > an insatiable desire to smash something! > > Today while the glass fired, I took clear glass, cutters and goggles. We > all just practiced using the glass cutter. They loved it. I want to do a > sun catcher project with them before schools out. After this positive > experience, I really have enjoyed glass and kids mixed together. I was > simply afraid to try it before. But all my students really paid attention > to my safety rules. > > I had a variety of staff members including the special ed department. I > brought one severely behavior problem student from the Sp. Ed department > over to work glass. He had participated in a glass mosaic project with the > class in February. Something about glass that soothes the savage beast. > Maybe because it has that element of danger? > > Anyway, I am so excited about planning our next adventure in glass together. > > cj > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 29 19:27:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 19:08:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Dumb question, which side first Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:05:12 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr30.2512.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/29/99 5:30:03 PM, dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca writes: >I have another dumd (ready newbie) question. Au contraire, mon frere; the only dumb question is the one you didn't ask! >Which side should I >solder first. It is copper foil and some glass is machine rolled >(thin), some is Yough (medium) and some is Uruboros (which is very >irregular and not 100% flat). I'd like to hear your comments on why >either side is better. Depends entirely on the effect you're looking for. If you want a "flat" front, lay it out face down and solder the back first. If you want the texturey effect of the different thicknesses of glass, solder the front first. >Maybe I am just too worried and either side is good :) You're the artist, guy! Whichever way it comes out, just tell 'em you did it on purpose! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 29 19:56:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 19:14:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Monona Rossol......... Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:09:57 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr30.2957.0> Precedence: bulk ........... is featured in the April/May issue of Glass Craftsman magazine. Check it out! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 29 20:33:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 19:38:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yybecker.22.ca!dscott33 From: dscott33@yybecker.22.ca To: websiteuser@yybecker.22.ca Subject: Search Engine Registration adv Summary: Authenticated Sender is Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:23:12 +0800 Message-ID: <35157859_80197608> Precedence: bulk I saw your listing on the internet. I work for a company that submits websites to search engines. We can submit your website to over 350 of the worlds best search engines and directories for a one time charge of only $39.95. If you would like your web site to receive more traffic call me on our toll-free number listed below. All work is verified! Sincerely, David Scott (888) 892-7537 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 29 22:04:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:29:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: French crackle glass Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 20:05:20 -0700 Message-ID: <199904300305.UAA30062@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >------=_NextPart_000_00DA_01BE9230.37A81380 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >Has anyone made a leaded window using French crackle glass? What did = >you put on the glass to prevent cement from getting into the cracks when = >you cemented the lead. A friend of mine is doing a window in this and = >plans on coating the glass with rubber cement but wonders if anyone has = >a better suggestion. Hey J & R...first, please set your computer so it doesn't send in mime...you are sending a cleaner, shorter message that way. I know what Dani would say if she was with us...use thumb putty. I asked her a similar question a couple of years ago and that was her response. Thumb putty is a thicker version of leading cement and is more like a dough than a thick liquid. You take little chunks of it and push it under the lead came with your thumb on the back side where the craquel grooves are. It's slower than regular puttying but it's far easier to clean up and you don't need to coat the textured side with anything either. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 29 22:22:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:31:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Dumb question, which side first Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 20:04:34 -0700 Message-ID: <199904300304.UAA29897@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk > >Hi Everybody, > >I have another dumd (ready newbie) question. Which side should I >solder first. It is copper foil and some glass is machine rolled >(thin), some is Yough (medium) and some is Uruboros (which is very >irregular and not 100% flat). I'd like to hear your comments on why >either side is better. Maybe I am just too worried and either side is >good :) I think this is one of those "it depends" questions. I almost always solder my front side first so the back is flat. I like the slight bit of added texture from different heights of glass on the front. If you like that, do the front first. If you (or your client) wants a perfectly flat front side, then do the back first. I like to get my best bead on first though so that's another reason I do the front first. The back is often more difficult due to textures like ripple and so on so I'd rather not complicate that side any more. C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Apr 29 23:09:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:42:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Questions on Patina Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:27:56 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr29.152756.0> Precedence: bulk Hello Everyone, I have been experimenting with making my own copper patina. So far I get a dark dirty copper finish, with a dark powdery look until I wax the piece with Meguires wax. I went to a couple of chemical supply stores, and finally was able to buy what they told me was copper sulfate (sold me, cupric sulfate). I mixed it with distilled water (heated the water first). And am getting the results described above. I read on the Novacan bottle that it contains Mineral Acid, asked around to see if I could find some, no go, no one seems to know what it is. Does anyone here know what Mineral Acid is??? Or does anyone have a recipe for a patina that will give results, close to the brite finish that you get with Novacan Copper Brite??? I would like to be able to get close to the look that you get with Novacan copper brite. Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 30 03:49:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 03:19:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: nbnet.nb.ca!mschut From: mschut@nbnet.nb.ca (mschut) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Flux question Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 06:23:16 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990430062316.30cf54b2@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca> Precedence: bulk Can anyone tell me the advantages and disadvantages of using a paste flux instead of a liquid flux? How would you apply the paste flux (I have only ever used liquid and am not happy with the solder joints i am receiving). Thanks. Mike, Pam, Jonathan, Kayla & ????? Schut Moncton, New Brunswick ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 30 05:15:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 04:36:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Questions on Patina Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:34:01 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr30.11341.0> Precedence: bulk Bud Britt's enquiring mind wants to know: >Does anyone here know what Mineral Acid is??? I seem to remember that "mineral acid" is a general term for inorganic (as opposed to organic) acids. (Ezcomezgo, correct me if I'm wrong.) In this particular case I'm guessing maybe sulfuric acid, since you're working with copper sulfate. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 30 05:28:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 04:56:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: discover.earthlink.net!leslye2 From: Leslye Nelson To: glass@intrastar.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------C942B9F391D763D05FA1267C" Subject: Re: Fla. trip Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:56:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr30.35644.0> References: <<000701be9287$056fb600$ba0545cf@hal>> Precedence: bulk --------------C942B9F391D763D05FA1267C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My favorite glass store is Mythical Reflections in Longwood. It is about 1/2 hour east of Orlando. They have a very wide varity of inventory and a great browsing area. Have fun!! Leslye GlassWorks by Leslye Jerri wrote: > Hi all, > > We are driving down to Orlando next week to stay with some friends in > their condo and take our daughter to Disney. We plan on going to the Morse > Museum while we're down there. I don't know if we'll have time to stop > anywhere else, but are there any other glass places close to Orlando that I > might want to check out? > > Thanks, > Jerri --------------C942B9F391D763D05FA1267C Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My favorite glass store is Mythical Reflections in Longwood.  It is about 1/2 hour east of Orlando.  They have a very wide varity of inventory and a great browsing area.  Have fun!!
Leslye
GlassWorks by Leslye

Jerri wrote:

Hi all,

    We are driving down to Orlando next week to stay with some friends in
their condo and take our daughter to Disney.  We plan on going to the Morse
Museum while we're down there.  I don't know if we'll have time to stop
anywhere else, but are there any other glass places close to Orlando that I
might want to check out?

Thanks,
Jerri

  --------------C942B9F391D763D05FA1267C-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 30 05:42:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 05:01:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!ezcomezgo From: rrk To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Questions on Patina Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 05:02:11 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr29.22211.0> References: <<1999Apr29.152756.0>> Precedence: bulk Bud Britt wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > I have been experimenting with making my own copper patina. So far I get a > dark dirty copper finish, with a dark powdery look until I wax the piece > with Meguires wax. > > I went to a couple of chemical supply stores, and finally was able to buy > what they told me was copper sulfate (sold me, cupric sulfate). I mixed it > with distilled water (heated the water first). And am getting the results > described above. I read on the Novacan bottle that it contains Mineral Acid, > asked around to see if I could find some, no go, no one seems to know what > it is. > > Does anyone here know what Mineral Acid is??? > > Or does anyone have a recipe for a patina that will give results, close to > the brite finish that you get with Novacan Copper Brite??? > > I would like to be able to get close to the look that you get with Novacan > copper brite. Bud, I've never made up my own patina (why bother? its so cheap) and my reference books on this type of chemistry are long gone. However, here are some of the answers and some pointers just off the top of my head. Mineral acids are acidic substances made from minerals, from ground up rocks. Some examples are Hydrochloric acid (HCl), Sulfuric Acid (H2SO4), and Nitric Acid (H2NO3). This generic term is used a lot by organic chemists a lot because when you're synthesizing a new substance, if its acidic, you can drop in a little mineral acid (doesn't matter that much which one) and the organic acid will drop out of solution and you can filter it out leaving the other stuff behind in solution thereby purifying it. I suspect that dilute mineral acids are added to aqueous copper sulfate solutions for solubility purposes; that is, to keep the copper sulfate dissolved. Try dilute sulfuric acid first. If nowhere else, you can buy battery acid (which is dilute sulfuric acid), for car batteries that is, at any auto supply, Sears etc. Sulfuric acid shouldn't react with copper sulfate since its already got sulfate ions in it. I wouldn't bother with hydrochloric acid at all since you'll probably make copper chloride instantaneously, and this is not what you want. If you're making up your own patina solutions, you should probably use distilled water rather than tap water. Tap water has a lot of things in it (including chlorine) some of which will chemically react with the copper sulfate changing it to some other substance. One of the reasons you're getting results which don't please you is the chlorine in the tap water is reacting with the copper sulfate to make copper chloride (yellow and green, depending on the oxidation state). As I recall, there are quite a few nitrates in tap water as well. In summary, use distilled tap water and dilute sulfuric acid, and see what happens. Regards ........... Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 30 05:46:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 04:35:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Dumb question, which side first Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:33:59 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr30.113359.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/30/99 1:22:50 AM, seaspray@island.net writes: >I like to get my best bead on first though so that's another reason I do the >front first. The back is often more difficult due to textures like ripple >and so on [...] Good point...... not to mention those pesky bubbles...... Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 30 06:45:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 06:33:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Leadlines From: Leadlines@aol.com To: mschut@nbnet.nb.ca, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Flux question Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:27:06 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr30.13276.0> Precedence: bulk Have been using Nokorode paste flux for a long time with great success, nice even bead and no spitting. Have tried liquids when teaching at a summer camp and everyone before me had used liquid. I had everyone converted to the paste in a week. I use a small brush (available when you get the flux) to apply the flux and I don't apply it very carefully, I just smear it on the foil and if it gets on the glass, that's OK. Try it. I also think the type of iron and the solder are an important part of the beading process. I use (exclusively) a Weller 100 iron and 60/40 solder. Luanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 30 07:14:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 06:51:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Witchdoc3@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Dumb question, which side first Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:50:39 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr30.35039.0> References: <<1999Apr30.113359.0>> Precedence: bulk Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/30/99 1:22:50 AM, seaspray@island.net writes: > > >I like to get my best bead on first though so that's another reason I do the > >front first. The back is often more difficult due to textures like ripple > >and so on [...] > > Good point...... not to mention those pesky bubbles...... > > Sparks I must be the odd duck...my second side always seems to be the easiest bead...and I use most my textures on front (unless it looks like the backside of the glass) When I use gluechip (which I dont care for) I use the chipped side on front. Sounds like from what I have read...that others do just the opposite. T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 30 08:22:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:21:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: rougenet.qc.ca!lostrivrbt From: Helen Gebhardt & Mark Reynolds To: seaspray@island.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Re: French crackle glass Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:17:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr30.61719.0> References: <<199904300305.UAA30062@oceanus.island.net>> Organization: Lost River Boutique Precedence: bulk --------------32AFB1162B996FC52B9B27FF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit seaspray@island.net wrote: > > I know what Dani would say if she was with us...use thumb putty. I asked > her a similar question a couple of years ago and that was her response. > > Thumb putty is a thicker version of leading cement and is more like a dough > than a thick liquid. You take little chunks of it and push it under the > lead came with your thumb on the back side where the craquel grooves are. > > It's slower than regular puttying but it's far easier to clean up and you > don't need to coat the textured side with anything either. > Shouldn't a nice stiff brush and lots of whiting do the trick? www.lostriverboutique.com --------------32AFB1162B996FC52B9B27FF Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

seaspray@island.net wrote:

 
I know what Dani would say if she was with us...use thumb putty.  I asked
her a similar question a couple of years ago and that was her response.

Thumb putty is a thicker version of leading cement and is more like a dough
than a thick liquid.  You take little chunks of it and push it under the
lead came with your thumb on the back side where the craquel grooves are.

It's slower than regular puttying but it's far easier to clean up and you
don't need to coat the textured side with anything either.
 

Shouldn't a nice stiff brush and lots of whiting do the trick?

www.lostriverboutique.com --------------32AFB1162B996FC52B9B27FF-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 30 08:49:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:22:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: rougenet.qc.ca!lostrivrbt From: Helen Gebhardt & Mark Reynolds To: mschut Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Re: canadian suppliers Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:17:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr30.61710.0> References: <<3.0.1.16.19990429084617.08cf2b7e@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>> Organization: Lost River Boutique Precedence: bulk --------------A109D587DFDA7EF59B3408E7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mschut wrote: > Does anyone know of a stained glass supplier that would sell glass to me (a > hobbyist) in the Atlantic Canada area? I know that my retailer in Montreal (Studio du Verre) Garth Jenkins prop., has pricing plans for bigger buyers (27% + discounts) requires an initial $1,000 order/deposit and same in anual purchases. Their number is 514-845-9407 Montreal is not exactly "Atlantic Canada" but if they can do this, a retailer in your area should be able to match this... --------------A109D587DFDA7EF59B3408E7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

mschut wrote:

Does anyone know of a stained glass supplier that would sell glass to me (a
hobbyist) in the Atlantic Canada area?
I know that my retailer in Montreal (Studio du Verre) Garth Jenkins prop.,
has pricing plans for bigger buyers (27% + discounts) requires an initial $1,000
order/deposit and same in anual purchases. Their number is
514-845-9407
Montreal is not exactly "Atlantic Canada" but if they  can do this, a retailer in your area should be able to match this... --------------A109D587DFDA7EF59B3408E7-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 30 09:04:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:22:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: rougenet.qc.ca!lostrivrbt From: Helen Gebhardt & Mark Reynolds To: mschut Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Flux question Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:17:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr30.61726.0> References: <<3.0.1.16.19990430062316.30cf54b2@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>> Organization: Lost River Boutique Precedence: bulk mschut wrote: > Can anyone tell me the advantages and disadvantages of using a paste flux > instead of a liquid flux? How would you apply the paste flux (I have only > ever used liquid and am not happy with the solder joints i am receiving). Liquid for copperfoil, paste for lead work...that's how I was taught... Paste applied with one of those little synthetic brushes (like in the lids of rubber cement jars) Paste advantages: on lead came, it stays where you put it. cleans up easily through puttying/whiting process. Liquid advantages: on copper it flows down into the cracks, less messy?. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 30 09:57:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:03:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net To: Helen Gebhardt & Mark Reynolds Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: French crackle glass Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:02:53 -0700 Message-ID: <199904301602.JAA00203@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk > > >seaspray@island.net wrote: > >> >> I know what Dani would say if she was with us...use thumb putty. I asked >> her a similar question a couple of years ago and that was her response. >> >> Thumb putty is a thicker version of leading cement and is more like a dough >> than a thick liquid. You take little chunks of it and push it under the >> lead came with your thumb on the back side where the craquel grooves are. >> >> It's slower than regular puttying but it's far easier to clean up and you >> don't need to coat the textured side with anything either. >> > >Shouldn't a nice stiff brush and lots of whiting do the trick? That would probably work too, but maybe take longer and more polishing. Having just finished picking out bits of putty/whiting from the depths of a ripple glass, my current tendency would be to avoid the problem. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 30 10:29:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:11:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!SAHigbee1 From: SAHigbee1@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: French crackle glass Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:10:59 EDT Message-ID: <1999Apr30.161059.0> Precedence: bulk I remember being told to cover the back of crackle glass with clear contact paper before doing any finishing. Otherwise, I remember someone telling me you would NEVER be able to get the gunk out of the glass. And that glass is too gorgeous and too expensive to mess up, IMHO. Shari ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 30 10:56:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:59:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: unitytustin.org!computerministry From: "Bud Britt" To: "Bungi" Subject: Golden Rectangle Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:46:08 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr30.2468.0> Precedence: bulk Found some pages on the Golden Rectangle that has been mentioned here for doing panels. http://www.mcn.net/~jimloy/golden.html http://www.automationnet.com/golden.htm http://www.vashti.net/mceinc/golden.htm Sincerely, Bud Britt computerministry@unitytustin.org page with some stained glass stuff on it,,, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/3159/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 30 11:22:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:38:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ipa.net!gecko From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Dumb question, which side first Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:39:15 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Apr30.63915.0> Precedence: bulk Hey T.Suz! Count me as an opposite too. Bass-ackwards, I believe it's called. I usually prefer the textured part of the glass in the front. (hey, I gotta be me) And I solder the back of an item first, so that when I put the finish bead on the front, I don't have to worry about messing it up while I solder the back. Welp.... that's the world according to Blake..... Now back to your regularly scheduled programming. Blake :-) -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne To: Witchdoc3@aol.com Date: Friday, April 30, 1999 9:29 AM Subject: Re: Dumb question, which side first >Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote: >> >> In a message dated 4/30/99 1:22:50 AM, seaspray@island.net writes: >> >> >I like to get my best bead on first though so that's another reason I do the >> >front first. The back is often more difficult due to textures like ripple >> >and so on [...] >> >> Good point...... not to mention those pesky bubbles...... >> >> Sparks > >I must be the odd duck...my second side always seems to be the easiest >bead...and I use most my textures on front (unless it looks like the >backside of the glass) When I use gluechip (which I dont care for) >I use the chipped side on front. Sounds like from what I have >read...that others do just the opposite. > >T Suz > >-- >"Winning isn't always finishing first. >Sometimes winning is just finishing." >Manuel Diotte >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 30 11:23:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:33:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: hotmail.com!mrsdesigns From: "Michele Spruill" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; Subject: drilling glass Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:24:55 PDT Message-ID: <1999Apr30.172455.0> Precedence: bulk I've been reading everyone's responses about making a small water dam when drilling glass. I just put a bead of cutting oil and drill through that. The oil has enough body to stay where the drilling is. Are there any reasons that isn't a good idea? Michele _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 30 11:51:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:53:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: French crackle glass Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:52:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1999Apr30.9528.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:seaspray@island.net >That would probably work too, but maybe take longer and more polishing. Having just finished picking out bits of putty/whiting from the depths of= a ripple glass, my current tendency would be to avoid the problem.< Sparks & I once worked on a leaded window made with heavily textured herribone patterned Uroborus glass. To avoid getting the putty in the texture, we taped plastic over the glass, then puttied. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 30 13:37:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:42:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Flux question Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:49:57 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <199904301852.NAA01717@relay.acns.nwu.edu> Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk The studio where I first took classes sold/recommended only the paste--so it wasn't until I started getting catalogs that I learned there was any other kind of flux. Being unhappy with my soldering, I took a Saturday workshop (on soldering) at a competing studio. She used liquid flux so I bought some. I have friends who use exclusively one or the other with good results. Personally, I find that the liquid "spits" a lot, so I use it only for lead came and change to the paste for copper foil. The liquid is certainly easier to clean up, but maybe that's because I tend to smear on more paste than I ought to! Just my $.02. Kaye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 30 14:06:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:47:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: "Bungi" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Delurk and "Canadian Stained Glass Community?" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:45:07 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr30.5457.0> Precedence: bulk Welcome to the list! Sounds like we are in similar life styles, just opposite ends of Canada. Adriana and I run the Holtenwood Gallery on Texada Island, one of the gulf islands of British Columbia. Some year round business, but in a community of only ten to thirteen hundred people, we rely on the tourist trade about six months of the year. Adriana is the jeweler and I do stained glass, wood working and whatever else strikes my fancy. (Or, I must admit, will make a buck. Making a living in a backwoods community requires a lot of flexibility). We are truly back woods. The gallery is on the main road just up from the ferry dock. The half of the art studio which requires large amounts of electrical power is in an 80 year old work shed behind the gallery. The rest of the art work gets done up on our 17 acre home, but with only solar power and a small generator we can't run the power tools up there yet. I also do computer work, though mostly contract work on main frames, so I have not gotten into the web design stuff much yet. The idea of promoting stained glass in Canada is great. I will submit our site once it is up and running. We had a little mix up in registering the Canadian domain name (www.holtenwood.bc.ca), so it is not up yet. Your "www.stainedglasscanada.com" site looks good. What have you found for domain hosting in Canada? I am looking around for inexpensive domain hosting, but still with good service, and also in Canada. Like the ripple effect on your logo on the Lost River Boutique site. Where did you get that one or is it custom programmed? I look forward to talking more to another remote community artist and store owner. -----Original Message----- From: Helen Gebhardt & Mark Reynolds To: glass Date: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 1:48 PM Subject: Delurk and "Canadian Stained Glass Community?" >Just 'delurking'. Well, I didn't lurk long, I just joined the mailing >list! :-) > >I'm a 39 yr old maleCanadian Artist (no this is not a personal ad!), >have been earning my livelihood through my art for the past 8 years, >mosty jewelry making. I've finally begun working in stained glass this >year. I studied in an an intensive apprenticeship type training at >Studio du Verre in Montreal and have set up my studio out of our small >boutique in the Quebec Laurentian Mountains. > >http://www.lostriverboutique.com > >We are fairly off of the beaten path, with a busy few months in the >summer (cottage country and all of that) and quiet for about 8 months a >year! >I've been experimenting with online auctions and such and have had some >success (not that I'm looking to glut my markets, but other 'backwoods' >artists such as myself might want to look into the possibilities!) >I've also desided to throw some energy into promoting the Canadian >stained glass community by creating a website for the same. > >http://www.stainedglasscanada.com > >It is brand spanking new and I am still in the process of submitting >it to the search engines and getting the word out, but if you are >canadian and have a visit, I think you may get an idea of it's potential >usefulness. >Finally, I've set up a few websites for myself and friends, and though >I'm no expert, if anyone out there needs any direction (non-Canadians >included) I might be able to point you to web resources (the >cheap-to-free kind). > >I'm pleased to join this mailing list and look forward to the >communication, > >Mark Reynolds >lostrivrbt@rougenet.qc.ca > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 30 14:41:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:55:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep From: "Brian Shepherd" To: "Kaye Sodt" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Flux question Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 21:49:42 +0100 Message-ID: <1999May1.224942.0> Precedence: bulk Hello I'm intrigued! I never thought of using a 'flux' as such on lead calm. I have only ever used tallow! What does everyone else use? Best regards BtB >The studio where I first took classes sold/recommended only the >paste--so it wasn't until I started getting catalogs that I learned >there was any other kind of flux. Being unhappy with my soldering, >I took a Saturday workshop (on soldering) at a competing studio. >She used liquid flux so I bought some. > >I have friends who use exclusively one or the other with good >results. Personally, I find that the liquid "spits" a lot, so I use it >only for lead came and change to the paste for copper foil. The >liquid is certainly easier to clean up, but maybe that's because I >tend to smear on more paste than I ought to! > >Just my $.02. > >Kaye >---- > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 30 15:07:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:04:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Not Glass Related...Life's Little Reminders Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:03:53 PDT Message-ID: Precedence: bulk I thought I'd pass this on to those who care. I thought it was worth reading and pondering...enjoy! "My brother-in-law opened the bottom drawer of my sister's bureau and lifted out a tissue-wrapped package. 'This,' he said, 'is not a slip. This is lingerie.' He discarded the tissue and handed me the slip. It was exquisite; silk, handmade and trimmed with a cobweb of lace. The price tag with an astronomical figure on it was still attached. Jan bought this the first time we went to New York, at least 8 or more years ago. She never wore it. She was saving it for a special occasion. Well, I guess this is the occasion.' He took the slip from me and put it on the bed with the other clothes we were taking to the mortician. His hands lingered on the silk material for a moment, then he slammed the drawer shut and turned to me. . .'Don't ever save anything for a special occasion. Every day you're alive is a special occasion.' I remembered those words through the funeral and the days that followed when I helped him and my niece attend to all the sad choll thinking about his words, and they've changed my life. I'm reading more and dusting less. I'm sitting on the deck and admiring the view without fussing about the weeds in the garden. I'm spending more time with my family and friends and less time in committee meetings. Whenever possible, life should be a pattern of experience to savor, not endure. I'm trying to recognize these moments now and cherish them. I'm not "saving" anything; we use our good china and crystal for every special event - such as, losing a pound, getting the sink unstopped, the first camellia blossom. I wear my good blazer to the market if I like it. My theory is if I look prosperous, I can shell out $28.49 for one small bag o to see and hear and do it now. I'm not sure what my sister would've done had she known that she wouldn't be here for the tomorrow we all take for granted. I think she would have called family members and a few close friends. She might have called a few former friends to apologize and mend fences for past squabbles. I like to think she would have gone out for a Chinese dinner, her favorite food. I'm guessing - I'll never know. It's those little things left undone that would make me angry if I knew that my hours were limited. Angry because I put off seeing good friends whom I was going to get in touch with - someday. Angry because I hadn't written certain letters that I intended to write - one of tevery minute, every breath truly is. . .a gift from God. If you've received this, it is because someone cares for you. If you're too busy to take the few minutes that it would take right now to forward this to a few people, would it be the first time you didn't do that little thing that would make a difference in your relationships? I can tell you it certainly won't be the last. Take a few minutes to send this to a few people you care about just to let them know that you're thinking of them. May love litter your life with blessings! JUST SEND IT!! -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 30 17:01:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:35:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@island.net To: "Bud Britt" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Golden Rectangle Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:34:59 -0700 Message-ID: <199904302334.QAA31736@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk Don't remember the golden rectangle being discussed on bungi...would that be like the Bermuda triangle? C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 30 17:31:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:41:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: 12316.com!08773598 From: 08773598@12316.com To: be@cool-thanks.com Subject: IF YOU BUILD IT, THEY WILL COME $$$ ... Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 01 May 99 01:29:06 EST Message-ID: <1999May1.6296.0> Precedence: bulk ************************************************************************ THIS IS AN ONETIME ONLY E-MAILING. NO NEED YOU TO REPLY WITH "REMOVE". 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To grow this program fast (so your income in the end) be prompt and courteous. We suggest to report your income to the tax office but it's up to you. It's ALL taxable, minus your expenses! ************************************************************************ GET A LOAN THAT YOU NEVER-EVER-EVER-HAVE TO PAY BACK!!! Here’s How It Works: Unlike all other similar programs, this is more realistic, faster and much, much more profitable. There might be a bigger bunch of letters to e-mail out, and one $30.00 payment to afford, but all is rewarded by the higher number of people it is exposed to (so hooked up) with just 4 names in the list, while keeping the amount of mail received at reasonable figures. It is also very inexpensive to participate in because it is designed to be run totally on-line. Using e-mail this program moves live, (this is not snail mail, taking forever to see any money)! Because it is so easy, because of the LOW INVESTMENT, SPEED, AND HIGH PROFIT POTENTIAL, this program has a VERY HIGH AND VERY FAST ESPONSE RATE! Just US$30.00!. That’s your onetime only investment!!! And you will see results in two weeks! You can set up today... and actually be getting checks mailed to you tomorrow. Just in time for next month’s bills! And those will be the last bills you will ever ever have to worry about! You e-mail out 200 copies. Don't get discouraged by the high number. It's just a couple hours work and the rewards are endless. Not even your favourite Sport Hero or Entertainer does actually make this much with this little work ... Do you want to be financially set for life? Do you want to finally turn all your dreams in reality? Then do your homework! Even if you are already in a program, stay with it, but DO YOURSELF A FAVOUR and DO THIS ONE as well. START RIGHT NOW! It will pay off for life long before other letters even begin to trickle in! And in the end you'll more likely throw any other program you are in away! ************************************************************************ Thanks for reading this far... Now here are the simple details!!! Read and follow the simple instructions below exactly, and you will agree this is YOUR LIFETIME DEAL. Only invest a little bit of time, and in less than three months, you will receive over $300,000.00! YOU'LL BE FINANCIALLY FREE! Good luck! A) Mail $30.00 (wrapped in a piece of blank paper) to the name next to #1 at the top of the list. Include a note (typed or handwritten) saying "Dear .... (fill in with addresse name), Here is my $30.00 payment to buy from you the Internet business report you are selling. Please e-mail me the Internet business report I have ordered and add me to your mailing list. Thank you," and include your name, mailing address, and e-mail address. IMPORTANT: DO NOT add anything else in the message, just these words only. B) Remove the name next to #1 at the top of the list and move the rest of the names up one position. Then place your name in the #4 spot. This is done by saving this to a file where you can edit the changes and enter it in your information on line #4. Be very careful when you type the addresses and proof read them. Don't include your e-mail address in the list, just give it to the person you are making the $30.00 payment to only. C) When you have completed the above instructions, e-mail the 200 letters. This letter has been proven perfectly legal as long as you follow the above instructions, because you are purchasing a product while joining membership in our exclusive mailing list. To mail this out over the Internet, you can browse through areas and find people to send this to all the time. All you have to do is cut and paste e-mail addressess wherever you are on the Internet. Remember, it doesn't cost anything to e-mail on the internet. FIFTY THOUSAND NEW PEOPLE GET ON THE INTERNET EVERY DAY! An excellent source of names is the people who send you other programs and the names listed on the letter they send you. An endless source is the FREE CLASSIFIEDS, there are thousands on the Net! Your contact source is UNLIMITED! Don't forget that the Ad boards scroll quickly so you must keep an eye on your Ads and make sure, that if they are gone, that you re-post them. You should also send them to people who s! end you their programs because they know these programs work and they are already believers in the system! Or you can use MASS E-MAIL NETWORK to mail out in large volumes for you. WE HIGHLY RECOMMEND THIS METHOD. You can easily find lots of Bulk E-Mail Companies on search engines, most of then with very good prices and excellent services. D) Once the name next to #1 at the top of the list gets your $30.00 onetime only investment, this person will e-mail you the Internet business report, which is your purchase and the item making this program 100% legal. Save this report to a file because after you receive any of your $30.00 payments from all people joining this program then you will have to resell the Internet report by e-mailing it to them, in order to be legally entitled to keep the money as your legit profit off the sale. OKAY I KNOW WHAT YOUR THINKING RIGHT NOW... ANOTHER CHAIN LETTER... NO-IT-IS-NOT... DO YOU SEE ANYTHING HERE THAT TELLS YOU THAT THE PERSON BREAKING THE CHAIN WILL SUFFER BAD LUCK!!! ----NO---- Keep in mind there is no limit to the amount of names you could send out. The more names you send, the more money you will make. We strongly encourage you to e-mail this letter to family and friends and to everyone you can think of as well. One of the people you send this to may send out 50,000... and your name will be on everyone of them! Be patient, it took me six months to decide to join this program. The average time for people to make up their mind and decide to get into it is one week or so to really get up and going, but this time does come!!! Assume for example, that you get a 5% return rate, which is a very realistic figure. Both my first and second attempt were about that so it's not just a projected income, it's a fact. 1) When you e-mail out 200 letters, 10 people will send you $30.00 = $300.00 2) Those 10 people e-mail out 200 letters and 100 people send you $30.00 = $3,000.00 3) Those 100 people e-mail out 200 letters and 1,000 people send you $30.00 = $30,000.00 4) Those 1,000 people e-mail out 200 letters and 10,000 people send you $30.00 = $300,000.00 At this point, your name drops off the list. Think about it. With only four levels, you have received $300,000.00!!! I think it’s WORTH $30.00, don’t you? NOW IS THE TIME FOR YOUR TURN! ************************************************************************* ***TRUE STORIES*** ************************************************************************* Jump on this today before it becomes saturated in the market place. It is now Brand New! I have been through this program 2 times already... you have no idea how profitable it is. It is definitely the fastest thing available. We are talking about $300,000.00 plus after three months ... more than $600,000.00 in the end!!! Send it to as many as you can (even though it says 200... trust me. I sent 1,000!) I've-bought a great home, a Corvette, a truck, taken the kids to Disneyworld, upgrated my CPU and quit my regular job to "retire" at 34 and play golf all day!.... you can't lose!! Don't JUDGE TOO quickly this the answer to all of your problems! Complete it in ONE HOUR and you will never forget the day you first received it... Ken Powell, Waco, Tx ************************************************************************* IT’S OUTRAGEOUS!!! With two hours of work I have made over $300,000.00 in the last three months.. and my investment was just $30.00!!! I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!! I AM IN TEARS OF JOY!!! ... Thank you!!!!!!!! Susan Lee, Shreveport, La ************************************************************************* G'Day! I am an young sheila from OZ. Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind to give it a burl in this plan. Bludger and conservative that I am, fearing I could sprung I finally decided that the initial investment wasn't exy at all and no way I was making a blue and wouldn't get enough response to at least get my money back. Woa, was I bloody doozey rapt when I found my medium-size post office box crammed with prezzy letters! For a while, it got so overloaded that I had to start picking up my mail at the window. I have made more money in three months than any I could dream of and now I don't have to work anymore and can rage on my entire life!!! The beauty about this bizzo is that it doesn't matter where in the world you live! Too right there simply isn't a better fair dinkum investment with a faster return. Ripper!!! Sarah Yates, Melbourne, Vic (Australia) ************************************************************************* So I am here to tell you that I took the CHANCE OF A LIFETIME AND I DECIDED TO PUT MY MONEY WHERE MY MOUTH IS AND INSTEAD OF EATING A FEW HAMBURGERS OR BUYING SOMETHING I DON'T NEED... I put that $30.00 where my FUTURE IS... and I was rewarded, OH MY!!! I Couldn't put up with the cash flowing in!!! $300,000.00 MORE STRONG! In just 3 months!!! This is more fun than winning at the Lottery! Because it's just luck in that case while here it's up to me to make it happen!!! Jeff Gray, Baltimore, Md ************************************************************************* Now it's up to you whether you beleive it or not?? I ran this gift summation two times last year. The first time I received over $300,000.00 in cash in less than three months and the same the next time I ran it!!! I can’t find the words to tell you how great it feels not to have to worry about money anymore! I thank God for the day I received this letter! It has truly changed my life! Don’t be afraid to make gifts to strangers--they’ll come back to you in ten-fold. So, let’s keep it going and help each other out in these tough and uncertain times. Todd Walker, Cincinnati, Oh *********************************************************************** ***CAN I DO IT AGAIN?*** *********************************************************************** OF COURSE YOU CAN--this plan is structured for everyone to send only 200 letters each. However, you are certainly not limited to 200. Mail out as many as you can. Every 200 letters you send has a return of $300,000.00 or more. If you can mail 400, 600, 800, or whatever, GO FOR IT! THE MORE YOU PUT INTO IT THE MORE YOU GET OUT OF IT! Anytime you run this program, just follow steps 1 thru 4 and everyone on your list benefits! Simple enough? You bet it is! This is no 4 marketing reports to order from 4 different people to get you going, it's an one-time purchase of one single e-mail report, much easier and faster to run! What's more, there are no mailing lists to buy (and wait for), and trips to the printer or copier, and you can do it again and again with your regular groups or gifters, or start up a new group. Each time you receive an MLM offer, respond with this letter! Your name will climb to the number one position at dizzying rates. Follow the simple instructions, and above all, PLEASE PLAY FAIR. That’s THE KEY to this programs success. Your name must run the full gamut on the list to produce the end results. SNEAKING YOUR NAME HIGHER UP ON THE LIST WILL NOT PRODUCE THE RESULTS YOU THINK, and it only cheats the other people who have worked hard and have earned the right to be there. So please, play by the rules and the $$$ will come to you! E-MAIL YOUR LETTERS OUT RIGHT NOW! *********************************************************************** ***TIPS FOR SUCCESS*** *********************************************************************** * TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, professional, and follow the directions accurately. * Send the $30.00 for the report IMMEDIATELY so you will have it when the money start coming in because: When you receive a $30.00 order, you MUST send out the requested product / report to comply with the U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title 18,Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18, Section 3005 in the U.S. Code, also Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state that "a product or service must be exchanged for money received." * BE PATIENT AND PERSISTENT WITH THIS PROGRAM. If you follow the instructions exactly, the results WILL undoubtedly be SUCCESSFUL! * ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED! ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE. Together we will prosper! Wishing you the best in all you do! GOOD LUCK!!! ************************************************************************ #1 MBE - Box 165 Via G. D' Annunzio 51 / 53 95128 Catania ITALY #2 Carmen Gonzalez 6240 S. Kedzie Ave. Apt. 204 Chicago, IL 60629 U.S.A. #3 P. C. E. Caixa Postal 96.868 Nova Friburgo - RJ 28.601-970 BRAZIL #4 Diane Hamilton P.O. Box 17442 West Haven, Ct 06516 U.S.A ************************************************************************ WITHOUT ACTION YOUR FUTURE CANNOT CHANGE! TAKE CONTROL OF YOUR FINANCIAL FUTURE NOW!! You probably don’t believe this will work, but if you don’t try it you will never know. That’s the way I felt. Try it. You won’t be sorry. You will thank me for the rest of your life! ... As for me, this is my last shot. Of course I don't need anymore money now (thanks God!) as I am set for life, but I decided to take a final ride anyway in order to collect at least another $300,000.00 that I want to use to built a non profit foundation that will take care of the helpless third world children ... This is another dream I always wanted to accomplish and I feel the Big Man Upstairs that watches over us all will hopefully (with your support) help me (and you too!) to give back to the ones in more need like he has blessed me so far ... we can help others while taking care of ourselves and the ones we care most ... Isn't that wonderful? Isn't that what life is all about? ... IF YOU BUILD IT, (the 200 e-mails program) THEY WILL COME $$$ ... (the $300,000.00 I mean!!!) ... THINK ABOUT IT. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 30 19:01:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 18:21:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!ezcomezgo From: rrk To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Golden Rectangle Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 18:21:59 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Apr30.112159.0> References: <<199904302334.QAA31736@oceanus.island.net>> Precedence: bulk seaspray@island.net wrote: > Don't remember the golden rectangle being discussed on bungi...would that be > like the Bermuda triangle? No, not like the Bermuda Triangle . Go here to learn more. http://www.automationnet.com/golden.htm http://www.sirius.com/~johnkyrk/golden.html http://www.arch.usyd.edu.au/~kerr_f/Light/rect.html Bob PS ... Bud, will get back to you on the chem stuff tomorrow morning ... chow time now ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 30 22:05:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 21:23:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: Glenna Rand Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Not Glass Related...Life's Little Reminders Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 21:01:31 -0700 Message-ID: <1999May4.14131.0> References: <> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk Glenna Rand wrote: > > I thought I'd pass this on to those who care. > I thought it was worth reading and pondering...enjoy! > > "My brother-in-law opened the bottom drawer of my sister's bureau and lifted > out a tissue-wrapped package. 'This,' he said, 'is not a slip. This is > lingerie.' He discarded the tissue and handed me the slip. It was > exquisite; silk, handmade and trimmed with a cobweb of lace. The price tag > with an astronomical figure on it was still attached. Jan bought this the > first time we went to New York, at least 8 or more years ago. She never > wore it. She was saving it for a special occasion. Well, I guess this is > the occasion.' He took the slip from me and put it on the bed with the > other clothes we were taking to the mortician. His hands lingered on the > silk material for a moment, then he slammed the drawer shut and turned to > me. . .'Don't ever save anything for a special occasion. Every day you're > alive is a special occasion.' > > I remembered those words through the funeral and the days that followed when > I helped him and my niece attend to all the sad choll thinking about his words, and they've changed my life. I'm reading > more and dusting less. I'm sitting on the deck and admiring the view without > fussing about the weeds in the garden. I'm spending more time with my family > and friends and less time in committee meetings. Whenever possible, life > should be a pattern of experience to savor, not endure. I'm trying to > recognize these moments now and cherish them. I'm not "saving" anything; we > use our good china and crystal for every special event - such as, losing a > pound, getting the sink unstopped, the first camellia blossom. I wear my > good blazer to the market if I like it. My theory is if I look prosperous, > I can shell out $28.49 for one small bag o to see and > hear and do it now. > > I'm not sure what my sister would've done had she known that she wouldn't be > here for the tomorrow we all take for granted. I think she would have > called family members and a few close friends. She might have called a few > former friends to apologize and mend fences for past squabbles. I like to > think she would have gone out for a Chinese dinner, her favorite food. I'm > guessing - I'll never know. > > It's those little things left undone that would make me angry if I knew that > my hours were limited. Angry because I put off seeing good friends whom I > was going to get in touch with - someday. Angry because I hadn't written > certain letters that I intended to write - one of tevery minute, every > breath truly is. . .a gift from God. > > If you've received this, it is because someone cares for you. If you're too > busy to take the few minutes that it would take right now to forward this to > a few people, would it be the first time you didn't do that little thing > that would make a difference in your relationships? I can tell you it > certainly won't be the last. > > Take a few minutes to send this to a few people you care about just to let > them know that you're thinking of them. May love litter your life with > blessings! > > JUST SEND IT!! > > -- > Glenna Rand > gjr@bungi.com > ---- > thank you Glenna...I know of someone that this ties in very much with something we were talking about this very evening....I forwarded it to him and my prayers are that it will be of help to him. Liz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 30 23:04:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 21:56:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr From: CncptThnkr@aol.com To: gecko@ipa.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: ng, ng, ng, ng........yeah, ng Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 00:53:38 EDT Message-ID: <1999May1.45338.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/30/99 2:25:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gecko@ipa.net writes: > Count me as an opposite too. > Bass-ackwards, I believe it's called. Ummm Blake, is this a reference to your kilt pic? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Apr 30 23:15:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 22:41:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: French crackle glass Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 01:40:05 EDT Message-ID: <1999May1.5405.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 4/30/99 2:53:51 PM, Ensembles@compuserve.com writes: >Sparks & I once worked on a leaded window made with >heavily textured herribone patterned Uroborus glass. To >avoid getting the putty in the texture, we taped plastic over >the glass, then puttied. That was the nastiest glass I've ever worked with. Total hell to tape the thing up, but well worth it (especially since it was white glass). The finished window was absolutely to die for! A big ol' half-round incorporating two antique windows from the customer. Actually, the question made me think of a project I did a while back, replacing some clear glue chip glass in a leaded window. Every little nook and cranny in the old glue chip was crudded up with hardened putty. I ended up slopping turpentine all over the old stuff and taking a Dremel with the wire brush head to it. Sure looked nice when I was done, though! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass