From owner-glass Mon Feb 1 04:09:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 03:51:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Infection Cleared Up Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:54:09 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb1.1549.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks for the instructions on how to get rid of the Happy99 virus. I have e-mail myself and no attachment showed up. I think I got it from someone in the group so every on should follow the instructions at: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/3652/SKA.HTM I think I only infected 2 other people besides bungi and I have warned them. My apologies if I am the one to have caused the group this trouble. I promise to never double click on another .exe file, EVER. Linda Campbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 1 07:36:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:47:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: NG-advice for Northerners Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 08:57:52 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb1.25752.0> Precedence: bulk I usually dont pass these on, as they really make us look bad...but this one really made me laugh because there is so much truth to it! Tulsa Suzanne (raised in Georgia) > ADVICE FOR NORTHERNERS MOVING SOUTH > > > 1. Save all manner of bacon grease. You will be instructed later how to > > use it. > > > > 2. If you forget a Southerner's name, refer to him (or her) as "Bubba". > > You have a 75% chance of being right. > > > > 3. Just because you can drive on snow and ice does not mean we > >can't stay home the two days of the year it snows. > > > > 4. If you do run your car into a ditch, don't panic. Four men in the > > cab of a four wheel drive with a tow chain will be along shortly. > > Don't try to help them. Just stay out of their way. This is what > > they live for. > > > > 5. Don't be surprised to find movie rentals and bait in the same store. > > > > 6. If it can't be fried in bacon grease, it ain't worth cooking, let > > alone eating. > > > > 7. Remember: "Y'all" is singular. "All y'all" is plural. "All > > y'all's" is plural possessive > > . > > 8. There is nothing sillier than a Northerner imitating a southern > > accent. > > > > 9. Get used to hearing, "Y'all ain't from around here, are you?" > > > > 10. People walk slower here. > > > > 11. Don't be worried that you don't understand anyone. They don't > > understand you either. > > > > 12. The proper pronunciation you learned in school is no longer proper. > > > > 13. If attending a funeral in the South, remember, we stay until the > > last shovel of dirt is thrown on and the tent is torn down . > > > > 14. If you hear a Southerner exclaim, "Hey, y'all, watch this!" stay > > out of his way. These are likely the last words he will ever say. > > > > 15. Most Southerners do not use turn signals, and they ignore those who > > do. In fact, if you see a signal blinking on a car with a southern > > license plate, you may rest assured that it was on when the car > > was purchased. > > > 16. The winter wardrobe you always brought out in September can wait > > November. > > > > 17. If there is the prediction of the slightest chance of even the most > > minuscule accumulation of snow, your presence is required at the > > local grocery store. It doesn't matter if you need anything from the > > store, it's just something you're supposed to do > > > > 18. Florida is not considered a southern state. There are far more > > Yankees than Southerners living there. > > > > 19. As you are cursing the person driving 15 mph in a 55 mph zone, > > directly in the middle of the road, remember, many folks learned to > drive on > > a model of vehicle known as John Deere, and this is the proper speed > >and lane position for the vehicle. > > > > 20. You can ask a Southerner for directions, but unless you already know > > the positions of key hills, trees and rocks, you're better off trying to > find > > it yourself. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 1 07:56:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:52:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Mike's Stained Glass - new stuff Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 09:52:04 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb1.4524.0> References: <<36B55556.1E24@ix.netcom.com>> Precedence: bulk Suzanne wrote: > > Feeling a bit mind blown here. > > What I want to know.... > How did you foil *that* leaf? (the one your finger points to) > Smaller than a grain of rice. Suddenly *my* challenge projects > are pre pre school. > > Sky city's dome is really beautiful. > > Tulsa Suzanne very carefully. i used 5/32" foil, and squeezed it down with the end of my fid. then carefully pressed it againt a piece of glass to flatten it out. then i had to trim the foil slightly with a razor blade. the trickest part was grinding the thing. in which i used the 1/4" bit, and carefully ground it. there is around 15 leaves i had to do, slightly larger then that one. and i still have to make the lower section of the tree. btw the glass i used was kokomo granite. i liked the texture and it should be the right scale when it sparkles, when the lights are on. of course that did'nt make it any easier to break. the dome is done, just many more to go. wait until you see one of the floors it's going to have... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 1 08:09:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 07:54:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: website Date: Mon Feb 1 07:53:47 1999 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.53147.0> Precedence: bulk Hi everyone well, i finally got my online catalog up and running http://www.taylordExpressions.com the online catalog has about 1200 items, to be a total of about 2000 items online. the printed catalog will be out in about two weeks (typing as fast as i can on it) it will have about 7000item in it. anyone contacting me in the next two week with their snail mail address will receive 25% off the catalog, forever. not a one time discount, but a forever discount. if you don't see what you want online, call or e-mail me kleeman@one.net for availability. i am trying to make it easy for everyone to order everything they need from one place. this also means one shipping charge. and no minimum order required. please let me know any comments (good and bad) you have pertaining to the site. i have an 888 number, so if you have any questions, feel free to call. please check hours of operation before calling. thank you for your time debbie taylor kleeman@one.net http://www.taylordExpressions.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 1 09:11:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:09:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: soltec.net!tamis From: "Tami Siddens" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Bob's new baby pictures Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:10:39 -0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb1.101039.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE4DCB.1E947C20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What a great warm, fuzzy to start a grey Monday morning. Thanks for = sharing. Tami ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE4DCB.1E947C20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
What a great warm, fuzzy to start a = grey Monday=20 morning.  Thanks for sharing.   = Tami
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE4DCB.1E947C20-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 1 11:15:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:30:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aries17.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: nGlass link Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:30:31 -0500 Message-ID: <199902011830.NAA07264@aries17.uwaterloo.ca> Precedence: bulk Hi Everybody, Some people have reported problems with the URL I posted yesterday. Please, try the following one instead: http://aries17.uwaterloo.ca/newglass/index.html Happy glassing! -- Daniel M. German http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 1 11:36:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:58:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us!gonzalj From: Jim Gonzalez To: "M. Savad" Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Hand foiling Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:09:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1999Feb1.9910.0> References: <<36B237F8.636C@home.net>> Precedence: bulk On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, M. Savad wrote: > > just wondering, is there a reason why you've switched to the correct > method? > > ---Mike Savad I've been reading through the archive and came across many discussions concerning use of 'tools' and thought it would be helpful to learn how to foil without assistance of tools. I foiled several large pieces over the weekend and found it takes longer. I held the foil in my right hand and the glass in my left. I tried sighting down the glass and rolling the glass. With more practice I hope to get the hang of it. Thanks to everyone who responded with all the helpful techniques. Jim ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 1 13:24:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:08:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw From: "Granny And PawPaw" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Fw: website Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:00:23 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb1.10023.0> Precedence: bulk Are we allowed to advertise our business through bungi? Arnold -----Original Message----- From: daver!one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 11:23 AM Subject: website >Hi everyone >well, i finally got my online catalog up and running >http://www.taylordExpressions.com > >the online catalog has about 1200 items, to be a total of about 2000 items >online. the printed catalog will be out in about two weeks (typing as fast >as i can on it) it will have about 7000item in it. > >anyone contacting me in the next two week with their snail mail address will >receive 25% off the catalog, forever. not a one time discount, but a >forever discount. > >if you don't see what you want online, call or e-mail me kleeman@one.net for >availability. > >i am trying to make it easy for everyone to order everything they need from >one place. this also means one shipping charge. and no minimum order >required. > >please let me know any comments (good and bad) you have pertaining to the >site. i have an 888 number, so if you have any questions, feel free to >call. please check hours of operation before calling. > >thank you for your time >debbie taylor >kleeman@one.net >http://www.taylordExpressions.com > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 1 13:39:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:00:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Suzanne:Southern born and southern bred! Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:01:11 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb1.10111.0> Precedence: bulk Hey Suzanne, so much of what you sent sounds so true.....where on earth did they find so much out about us....Ya'll take care now , Abbie Mason in VIRGINIA [That is south of the Mason -Dixon line, I think] Wonder if that fella is any kin? [just kidding] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 1 14:19:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:23:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: DEAN.MED.UFL.EDU!cmccall From: "Candice McCall" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Infection Cleared Up Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:24:48 EST5EDT Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0> Organization: Dean's Office, College of Medicine Precedence: bulk Re: the happy99.exe virus My PC support person spent the morning here cleaning this virus off my hard drive. I thought I had removed it but when I saw the email concerning the SKA Virus website, I realized I still had it under c:\windows\system\ska.dll and ska.exe. Check your hard drive out. McAfee VirusScan didn't catch it... Candice ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 1 15:21:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:22:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: My New Baby Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 17:21:55 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb1.122155.0> References: <<1999Jan31.152834.0>> Precedence: bulk AWW, what a cute baby (as an almost 1st time grandmother, I'm starting to go AWW over all babies! I think I'm going to like this grandma stuff.) Dorothy (with no attempt to get on topic) Bob E Duchesneau wrote: > >>!). For those of you that have asked me for pics, we uploaded > the > >first polaroids onto Owen's website at http://www.steelsphere.com/baby > << > > Don't miss this one! > > Bob > > Ps: The butterfly thing would look good in stained glass. > > Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 > Please note new address of: bobdu@prodigy.net > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 1 15:35:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:23:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Fw: website Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 17:23:36 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb1.122336.0> References: <<1999Feb1.10023.0>> Precedence: bulk Granny And PawPaw wrote: > > Are we allowed to advertise our business through bungi? > > Arnold > > -----Original Message----- > From: daver!one.net!kleeman > To: glass@bungi.com > Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 11:23 AM > Subject: website > > >Hi everyone > >well, i finally got my online catalog up and running > >http://www.taylordExpressions.com > > > >the online catalog has about 1200 items, to be a total of about 2000 items > >online. the printed catalog will be out in about two weeks (typing as fast > >as i can on it) it will have about 7000item in it. > > > >anyone contacting me in the next two week with their snail mail address > will > >receive 25% off the catalog, forever. not a one time discount, but a > >forever discount. > > > >if you don't see what you want online, call or e-mail me kleeman@one.net > for > >availability. > > > >i am trying to make it easy for everyone to order everything they need from > >one place. this also means one shipping charge. and no minimum order > >required. > > > >please let me know any comments (good and bad) you have pertaining to the > >site. i have an 888 number, so if you have any questions, feel free to > >call. please check hours of operation before calling. > > > >thank you for your time > >debbie taylor > >kleeman@one.net > >http://www.taylordExpressions.com > > > > > >---- advertise no, mentioning updates, and services, i think are ok. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 1 16:01:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:29:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: glass racks/transporting glass Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:27:22 -0800 Message-ID: <199902012227.OAA17544@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk Okay, so I'm at the point where I need to sharpen up my glass delivery methods some, and i'd like to get some feedback from the group: How do you support your glass during transport to installation sites: If the answer is glass racks, how long are they (If I put the tailgate on my pickup down, I have 7' in the box of my truck. I have a feeling that if I don't make them 8' long and let it hang over a bit, I'll be sorry somewhere down the road. Input? What angle should I build the racks for the glass to rest at. I know it has to be close to vertical, but I notice the commercial guys that have racks on the sides of their vans seem to have a slight angle. Do we need that angle for stained glass too? Also when you're doing delivery of completed windows, how do you protect them from 1) rain...do you wrap in plastic? 2) stray stones from transport trucks...do you add a layer of plywood to cover and protect the windows? 3) do you stack windows on top of each other for delivery what (if anything) do you place between them for protection...plywood, a blanket, cardboard, nothing? Thanks so much. This is one I haven't seen discussed on bungi before. C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 1 16:23:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:43:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: iconn.net!tbyrnes From: Tim Byrnes To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Back on line Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 17:39:25 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb1.123925.0> Organization: QM Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Hi Folks, Do to some technical problems with my Internet carrier I was off line today and just found it out at 5:30 PM. Please keep me on your list. Thank you, Tim Byrnes ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 1 16:42:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:16:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Infection Cleared Up Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 15:14:27 -0800 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990201151427.00929450@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>> Precedence: bulk At 01:24 PM 2/1/99 EST5EDT, Candice McCall wrote: >Re: the happy99.exe virus > >{clip} > >Check your hard drive out. McAfee VirusScan >didn't catch it... > >Candice Judging from its sporadic reappearance, several bungi people have caught this virus. Norton Anti-Virus can detect and remove it automatically if your virus database is up to date. Use the LiveUpdate program to get a free database update. NAV will also intercept the virus on the way in via new e-mail messages and prevent the file from being stored. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 1 17:31:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:21:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw From: "Granny And PawPaw" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: website Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:13:11 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb1.141311.0> Precedence: bulk I run a one person stained glass retail store. I wasn't knocking the ad, just surprised that it was permitted. Several others, like "Store Finder" do not permit it. I teach, give demos at 2 universities, and am retired from industry. Really not interested in doing more than I am...It would cut into my play time, so no web or effort to do mail-order business. I'd go after it if I wasn't so lazy.... Thanks for listening Arnold -----Original Message----- From: Dani Greer To: Granny And PawPaw Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 6:27 PM Subject: Fw: website >Did you get a new website, Arnold?? >Tell us what the URL is! Will stop >by and see whatcha got! > >Best regards, > >Dani Greer >Greer Gallery & Studios >www.igga.org/greer/ > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 1 17:55:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:36:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Fw: website Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:38:12 -0800 Message-ID: <199902012238.OAA21052@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >Are we allowed to advertise our business through bungi? > >Arnold Arnold, thank you for asking in advance. I'm not sure if Glenna has an actual policy, but I think it's generally frowned upon beyond referring someone to a web site where they can find the info. C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 1 18:09:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:51:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:48:51 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb1.84851.0> Precedence: bulk >>How do you support your glass during transport to installation sites: If the answer is glass racks, << Big snip>> I have a double sided glass rack that is 4' long and 32" high for 98% of my glass transportation needs. The sides are inclined 10 degrees from the verticle. I have been known to transport over 50 sheets of glass and several windows with this rack. Use nylon cynch straps at least two per side. Do not place anything between the glass or panels and have no problems. Panels up to seven feet long, or so, transport well. Have layed a long board on the base for longer panels. I do not cover my panels for two reasons: 1. Rain is not a big thing in San Diego County, and 2. I was once flagged down by a fellow motorest and given an order. Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Please note new address of: bobdu@prodigy.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 1 18:35:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:52:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: email.msn.com!bird_cage From: "Doug Parrott" To: "Steve Wernecke" , Subject: Re: Infection Cleared Up Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:52:43 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb1.95243.0> Precedence: bulk Well I must have picked it up too. We have Norton anti Virus but it must not be the latest one because it didn't detect it. I followed the directions on the post from Linda Campbell and it looks like it is cleared up now. At least I hope so. Cheryl The Glass Parrott -----Original Message----- From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 4:47 PM Subject: Re: Infection Cleared Up >At 01:24 PM 2/1/99 EST5EDT, Candice McCall wrote: >>Re: the happy99.exe virus >> >>{clip} >> >>Check your hard drive out. McAfee VirusScan >>didn't catch it... >> >>Candice > >Judging from its sporadic reappearance, several bungi people have caught >this virus. Norton Anti-Virus can detect and remove it automatically if >your virus database is up to date. Use the LiveUpdate program to get a >free database update. NAV will also intercept the virus on the way in via >new e-mail messages and prevent the file from being stored. >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 1 20:25:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:43:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netusa1.net!t6686 From: L Nelson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: (no subject) Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 22:51:35 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb1.145135.0> Precedence: bulk Is tis only etching glass or so you all so do stepping stones and or stained glass?? Laura ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 1 20:55:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:59:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netusa1.net!t6686 From: L Nelson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: subscribe Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 23:09:13 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb1.15913.0> Precedence: bulk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 1 21:58:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:18:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: What goes on? Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 23:27:20 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb1.172720.0> Precedence: bulk > > Is tis only etching glass or so you all so do stepping stones and or > stained glass?? > Laura > Hi Laura! Boy, have you lucked out! There is a little bit of everything done in bungi land. Welcome, sit back relax, tell us about yourself, and get ready. You will be amazed at how much that is offered to us here. Myself, All I have ever done is copperfoil, and stepping stones. But am going to learn to do lead work soon! ;o) Waiting for this really cool English chick to visit the USA...I bet you hear about her soon too. Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 1 22:28:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:02:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "glass bungi com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: New Baby Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:03:25 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb1.18325.0> Precedence: bulk Hey Jenna, I saw a butterfly, and other stuff ..... but no Tutu. How will he ever follow in my footsteps? Seems like there are about 700 giddy aunts and uncles here. Wonderful news and pictures and baby and ....... thanks Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 1 22:57:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:22:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "L Nelson" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Biography Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:23:24 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb1.182324.0> Precedence: bulk Hello Laura and welcome to the Mad Hatter's Ball. We would really like to get to know you. Each Saturday I post biographies (bios) from members of our group. This is a great way of allowing us getting to know you. Nothing elaborate, just things like where your from, kids (we are all so proud .... we are all new uncles and aunts), how you got started in Stained Glass, significant other (notice the political correctness .... it won't last long here), etc. Email it to me and I'll post it. If you like I can email you the biographies of everyone who has submitted one. Watch out for the others you and I are the only sane ones here (and I have my doubts about you). Looking forward to receiving your bio. Got to go now ..... I'm late..... I'm late ..... for a very important date. No time to say hello ..... goodbye, I'm late, I'm late .... I'm late. -----Original Message----- From: L Nelson To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 10:43 PM Subject: (no subject) >Is tis only etching glass or so you all so do stepping stones and or >stained glass?? >Laura > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 1 23:27:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:41:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Pat Kelly Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: New Baby Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 00:50:54 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb1.185054.0> References: <<1999Feb1.18325.0>> Precedence: bulk > ..... but no Tutu. How will he > ever follow in my footsteps? Aren't those called "Toe-steps", Patrick? Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 1 23:57:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:22:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cros.net!soraya From: "Soraya" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Biography Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 02:22:54 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb1.212254.0> Precedence: bulk Okay Mr. Tutu, I have a bio all wrote up...but to where do I send it......this list works differently than any other the others I am on....and I would hate to make a mistake and encounter your glass wrath? Take Care, Soraya ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ Soraya may be reached at... soraya@cros.net ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ Soraya's web site is currently undergoing reconstruction "The Witches' Thicket" may be found at... http://www.cros.net/soraya ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ "For Passionate People These Are Desperate Times, Desperate Measures Call For Passionate Crimes" --Michael Stanley ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 00:10:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:32:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cros.net!soraya From: "Soraya" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Looking for artist info Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 02:31:54 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb1.213154.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BE4E54.32D398E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Bungians, While in the library the other week I found an interesting book = "Stained Glass - Music for the Eye" by Hil, Hil and Halberstadt. =20 On the cover (and an inside plate) is this most amazing piece of work = instilled "Druidic Tree" . It shows a large Oak tree with the various = seasons depicted in its branches and a lunar month calendar circling the = top 2/3. The whole piece being round in shape. Now, silly me did not write down the artists name (Dan Something = maybe???). And when I went back to the library the book is checked out. = I am hoping someone may be familiar with this work and help me locate = the artists name, possibly more pieces by him and/or patterns for = purchase. =20 Thank you for any help in advance. Take Care, Soraya ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ Soraya may be reached at... soraya@cros.net ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ "The Witches' Thicket" may be found at... http://www.cros.net/soraya ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ "For Passionate People These Are Desperate Times, Desperate Measures Call For Passionate Crimes" --Michael Stanley ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BE4E54.32D398E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Bungians,
 
While in the library the other week = I found an=20 interesting book  "Stained Glass -  Music for the = Eye" by=20 Hil, Hil and Halberstadt. 
 
On the cover (and an inside plate) is this most = amazing piece=20 of work instilled "Druidic Tree" .  It shows a large Oak = tree=20 with the various seasons depicted in its branches and a lunar month = calendar=20 circling the top 2/3.  The whole piece being round in = shape.
 
Now, silly me did not write down the artists name = (Dan=20 Something maybe???).  And when I went back to the library the book = is=20 checked out.    I am hoping someone may be familiar with = this=20 work and help me locate the artists name, possibly more pieces by him = and/or=20 patterns for purchase. 
 
Thank you for any help in advance.
Take Care,
Soraya
 
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
Soraya=20 may be reached at...
soraya@cros.net
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^= ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
"The=20 Witches' Thicket"  may be found at...
http://www.cros.net/soraya
~^~= ^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
"For=20 Passionate People These Are Desperate Times,
Desperate Measures Call = For=20 Passionate Crimes"
--Michael = Stanley
------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BE4E54.32D398E0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 00:57:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:13:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Soraya Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Biography Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 02:21:33 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb1.202133.0> References: <<1999Feb1.212254.0>> Precedence: bulk > > Okay Mr. Tutu, > > I have a bio all wrote up...but to where do I send it......this list works > differently than any other the others I am on....and I would hate to make a > mistake and encounter your glass wrath? > > Take Care, > Soraya You fit right in, girlfriend! ;o) Anxious to read all about you! Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 02:31:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 01:51:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: kleeman@one.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: website Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 04:46:02 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb2.9462.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Deb, Congrats on your new website!!! Looks like you have a ton of work ahead of you!!! (with all you are planning to list on site!) Good Luck! Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 03:01:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 02:17:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: NG/baby pictures Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 05:15:54 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb2.101554.0> Precedence: bulk Jenna, What a beautiful baby!!! No conehead or mushface here!!! With a conehead you can always keep the little hat on the head, but with a mushface, there is nothing to hide it except for a bag over the head (like they probably prepared you for in birthing classes). !!! So happy for you and your husband. Of course, let's not forget the proud grandfather who gave me the go-ahead to inform all of bungiland about its newest member! Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 04:58:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 04:36:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr From: CncptThnkr@aol.com To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: What goes on? Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:36:24 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb2.123624.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/2/99 1:00:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com writes: > Myself, All I have ever done is copperfoil, and stepping stones. But am > going to learn to do lead work soon Suzanne de Tulsa, I can't wait till you start working in lead, your enthusiasm is so contagious. Personally love lead. The lines are so precise compared to foil. I really want to do something with foil and lead in the same project, anyone have an idea? Thanks, IA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 05:28:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 04:46:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr From: CncptThnkr@aol.com To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: NG-advice for Northerners Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:44:38 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb2.124438.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/1/99 10:38:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com writes: > 1. Save all manner of bacon grease. You will be instructed later how > to > > > use it. Suzanne de Tulsa, Ummm, after you microwave the bacon do you squeeze the grease out of the paper towels???? True northerner here, can ya tell?? Take care. IA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 05:42:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 04:46:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Smiles! Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:45:54 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.24554.0> Precedence: bulk Patrick you brighten my morning with smiles.....but a Tutu? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 06:27:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 05:44:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: erols.com!deethom From: Dee Thompson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Looking for artist info Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 08:55:04 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990202085502.0075cc90@pop.erols.com> Precedence: bulk Dan Fenton, maybe? Dee >On the cover (and an inside plate) is this most amazing piece of work = >instilled "Druidic Tree" . >Now, silly me did not write down the artists name (Dan Something = >maybe???). ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 06:48:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 05:51:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: CncptThnkr@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: What goes on? Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 08:01:33 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.2133.0> References: <> Precedence: bulk CncptThnkr@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 2/2/99 1:00:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, > gunnx4@ix.netcom.com writes: > > > Myself, All I have ever done is copperfoil, and stepping stones. But am > > going to learn to do lead work soon > > Suzanne de Tulsa, > > I can't wait till you start working in lead, your enthusiasm is so contagious. > Personally love lead. ***************The lines are so precise compared to foil**************** I really > want to do something with foil and lead in the same project, anyone >have an idea? Thanks, > > IA The above emphasis is mine...... PatricIA Cant tell you how I hate to hear that! ;o) Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 06:58:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 05:52:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: CncptThnkr@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG-advice for Northerners Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 08:02:43 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.2243.0> References: <<538e99e1.36b6f336@aol.com>> Precedence: bulk > Suzanne de Tulsa, > > Ummm, after you microwave the bacon do you squeeze the grease out of the paper > towels???? True northerner here, can ya tell?? > > Take care. > > IA > I think I am gonna be ill... Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 07:21:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 05:54:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: NG a hankerin' Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 08:05:04 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.254.0> Precedence: bulk Ok...all this talk has me suddenly wanting to go buy some bacon. Moving to California in the early '70's taught me to be heart smart...but, I may have to go back to the grocery store. Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 07:41:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:00:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Dee Thompson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Looking for artist info Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 09:10:35 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.31035.0> References: <<3.0.32.19990202085502.0075cc90@pop.erols.com>> Precedence: bulk Yep...Dan Fenton it is... See the "Druid Oak Tree" at the Dan Fenton Studio website http://www.cyberthings.com/fenton/ Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 07:58:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:10:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: erols.com!deethom From: Dee Thompson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: lead+foil Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 10:20:26 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990202101739.00686028@pop.erols.com> Precedence: bulk I've done projects with foil florals in the center, using lead for the framing geometric design. I thought the thin lead was very attractive and in proportion to the thin copper foil lines in the 'organic' center section. Those pieces sold well, so I guess they looked ok to others as well! Dee I really >want to do something with foil and lead in the same project, anyone have an >idea? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 08:27:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:49:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: website apology-not glass Date: Tue Feb 2 07:48:12 1999 Message-ID: <1999Feb3.52612.0> Precedence: bulk hi guys i am sorry if i offended anyone yesterday with the announcement of my website. i have worked very hard over the last six weeks to get the website and catalog up and running. a lot of you helped me with this, and i am very grateful. i would also like to thank anyone who wished me well on my new venture. as i said, i did not mean to offend anyone. i was very excited, and knowing other people post their web sites, i just announced mine. i understand it is not finished glass product, it is supplies--i sell something different then the rest of you. please accept my apology glenna, i did not mean to do anything wrong, just wanted to share my excitement with my friends. debbie taylor kleeman@one.net http://www.taylordExpression.com 1-888-488-9616 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 08:49:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:05:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mindspring.com!pigznpawz From: "Jerri" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: NG--Southerners, oh and you too, Patrick Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:02:04 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.624.0> Precedence: bulk A true Southerner doesn't microwave bacon. It's not any good unless you fry it and really soak it in it's own grease. ;) Jerri from Georgia P.S. Patrick, my 5 yr. old will argue with you. It really goes, "I'm late. I'm late. I'm being fortune tate." I haven't quite figured out what that means, but I'm corrected every time I say "for a very important date." > >> 1. Save all manner of bacon grease. You will be instructed later how >> to >> > > use it. > >Suzanne de Tulsa, > >Ummm, after you microwave the bacon do you squeeze the grease out of the paper >towels???? True northerner here, can ya tell?? > >Take care. > >IA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 09:28:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:42:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Dee Thompson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: lead+foil Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 10:50:02 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.4502.0> References: <<3.0.32.19990202101739.00686028@pop.erols.com>> Precedence: bulk > I've done projects with foil florals in the center, using lead for the > framing geometric design. I thought the thin lead was very attractive and > in proportion to the thin copper foil lines in the 'organic' center > section. Those pieces sold well, so I guess they looked ok to others as well! > Dee > > I really love copperfoil, and honestly cant imagine doing lead only. I want to learn to do it, but think I will incorporate both together mostly. I just need to learn how. Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 10:32:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:49:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:47:10 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.74710.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Bob E Duchesneau" >I do not cover my panels for two reasons: 1. Rain is not a big thing in San Diego County, and 2. I was once flagged down by a fellow motorest and given an order.< Oh, Bob! I had to re-read reason #2 in order to fully appreciate it! Wonderful! Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 10:55:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:48:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: what is bungi? by L Nelson Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:47:13 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.74713.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by L Nelson >Is tis only etching glass or so you all so do stepping stones and or stained glass??< Hi Laura. We on bungi do all sorts of work with glass. Etched, sand-blasted, mosaic'ed, copper-foil, lead, hot glass, flameworked, slumped, drapped, fused, jewelry, bead-making, restoration, etc... You name it, and probably someone on this list does it. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 11:00:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:11:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:09:03 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb2.1893.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/1/99 9:11:48 PM, BOBDU@prodigy.net wrote: >I do not cover my panels for two reasons: > [...] 2. I was once flagged down by a fellow motorest and given an order. I got the biggest kick out of this...... It's another of those things most people don't think about: where do stained glass windows come from, anyway? How do they get where they're going? etc. etc. Maybe they'd like to have one, one of these days when they get around to it. Then one day they see one riding down the street, or they walk into a shop and se one being made, and it just grabs 'em. Exposure to the process itself - seeing the artist/artisan at work, even seeing a finished product going down the road on the way to be installed - has to be one of the greatest sales tools of all! The same thing goes for smaller pieces too. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's had things "bought out from under me" as I was working on them! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 11:32:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:12:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: NG-about that bacon grease...... Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:08:53 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb2.18853.0> Precedence: bulk IA's enquiring mind wants to know: >Suzanne de Tulsa, > >Ummm, after you microwave the bacon do you squeeze the grease out of the paper >towels???? True northerner here, can ya tell?? Hell, no! Y' cain't cook bacon in no newfangled gadget like that! Y'all gotta use a big ol' cast-arn skillet! Sparks Born in California but with a grammaw an' grampaw from Arkinsaw, who larned me real good that the basic food groups are hambeans, Wonder bread, and milk gravy made with that good ol' bacon grease ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 11:36:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:14:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!103462.2164 From: Ray <103462.2164@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:daver!one.net!kleeman" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: website apology-not glass Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:13:05 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.8135.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:daver!one.net!kleeman >please accept my apology glenna, i did not mean to do anything wrong, ju= st wanted to share my excitement with my friends. < No need to apologize. All accomplishments are worth noting. Love, Ray CSG ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 11:57:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:15:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!GlassLites From: GlassLites@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Re: cutting zinc Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:13:25 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb2.181325.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 1/30/99, 5:55:22 PM, Dale Bentley writes: <> Absolutely! I could not live without my little "mighty moto". It was given to me when I was in college some mumble..mumble... years ago. It's an antique now. But it can do anything! Cheryl Lowe Glass Lites Studio ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 11:57:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:25:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!mschatee From: mschatee@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: NG-advice for Northerners Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 12:38:57 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb2.173857.0> References: <<1999Feb2.124438.0>> Precedence: bulk Speaking of Northerners...I am one, true blue, born and bred New Yorker, the worst kind of Northerner I know. So we have had a tough winter. Two weeks ago we had tons of snow then rain, which led to melting and flooding in my basement. I had to take apart my stained glass area of the basement to suck up the water. Well a few days ago I finally put it all back together and got back to glass work. Well here we go again, we had an ice storm last night (some benefits I got a snow day today being a teacher), but I'm back to sucking up water again right under my glass tables. (By the way I'm sucking with a shop vac which I bought after the last storm). Actually I'm glad I had to buy the shop vac since I am now using it to clean the glass shards out of my Morton grid and the water and guk out of my grinder. So back to the basement for me (and I planned on doing glass today). Gee do you think I'd have a problem soldering in a puddle of water? Enjoying being a Northerner (NOT) Caren ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 12:11:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:12:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: NG--Southerners, oh and you too, Patrick Date: Tue Feb 2 11:10:30 1999 Message-ID: <1999Feb3.84830.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_001_01BE4EDE.19908D04 Content-Type: text/plain Jerri Comparing Patrick to a 5 yr. old? Isn't that being unfair to Patrick? Vic M. vmodiano@ctronsoft.com PS I Have it on good authority that both southern and northern bachelors use the same recipe for bacon (and everything else): Microwave till hot. -----Original Message----- From: Jerri [mailto:pigznpawz@mindspring.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 11:02 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: NG--Southerners, oh and you too, Patrick A true Southerner doesn't microwave bacon. It's not any good unless you fry it and really soak it in it's own grease. ;) Jerri from Georgia P.S. Patrick, my 5 yr. old will argue with you. It really goes, "I'm late. I'm late. I'm being fortune tate." I haven't quite figured out what that means, but I'm corrected every time I say "for a very important date." > >> 1. Save all manner of bacon grease. You will be instructed later how >> to >> > > use it. > >Suzanne de Tulsa, > >Ummm, after you microwave the bacon do you squeeze the grease out of the paper >towels???? True northerner here, can ya tell?? > >Take care. > >IA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------ =_NextPart_001_01BE4EDE.19908D04 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: NG--Southerners, oh and you too, Patrick

Jerri

Comparing Patrick to a 5 yr. old? =
Isn't that being unfair to = Patrick?

Vic M.
vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

PS I Have it on good authority that = both southern and northern bachelors use the same recipe for bacon (and = everything else):

Microwave till hot.

      -----Original = Message-----
      From:   Jerri [mailto:pigznpawz@mindspring.com]
      Sent:   Tuesday, February 02, 1999 11:02 AM
      To:     glass@bungi.com
      Subject:       = NG--Southerners, oh and you too, = Patrick

      A true Southerner doesn't microwave = bacon.  It's not any good unless you fry
      it and really soak it in it's own = grease.  ;)

      Jerri
      from Georgia


      P.S. Patrick,  my 5 yr. old will = argue with you.  It really goes, "I'm late.
      I'm late.  I'm being fortune = tate."  I haven't quite figured out what that
      means, but I'm corrected every time I = say "for a very important date."




      >
      >>  1. Save all manner of = bacon grease.  You will be instructed later how
      >>  to
      >>  > > use = it.
      >
      >Suzanne de Tulsa,
      >
      >Ummm, after you microwave the = bacon do you squeeze the grease out of the
      paper
      >towels????  True northerner = here, can ya tell??
      >
      >Take care.
      >
      >IA

      ----
      For subscription changes, please mail = to: glass-request@bungi.com
      To send to the = list,      please mail to: = glass@bungi.com
      Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

------ =_NextPart_001_01BE4EDE.19908D04-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 12:29:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:24:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:21:42 -0800 Message-ID: <199902021921.LAA13722@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >2. I was once flagged down by a fellow motorest and given an order. Hey Bob...first time I read that I read ticket instead of order...thought maybe it was illegal in Calif to leave your glass exposed :) (thinking of Patrick and his tutu here). So if you leave the glass uncovered it's like a rolling billboard!! In all seriousness though, I'm wondering how far you transport glass and at what speed? Many of my deliveries require highway speed travel for 4 hours...I tend to go through a new windshield every couple of years thanks to flying rocks kicked up by other motorists. Are your deliveries similar? And you've never had a flying rock problem? What about when your truck is unattended? Do you have concerns about vandalism? For me, I can see a double edged sword here...waiting hours in a parking lot with bored individuals in a ferry lineup could lead to orders...never thought about that...but what about possible vandalism during the 2 hour ferry ride? Guess I'd like to hear more about your delivery trips...how long are they? C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 12:53:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:01:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw From: "Granny And PawPaw" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: website Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:54:38 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.95438.0> Precedence: bulk Debbie you didn't offend me...I just asked the question because advertising is not permitted on other glass chats...Store Finder, for example. More power to you. I hope that you become very successful...honest. I have no axe to grind....Guess that I opened a real can of worms by asking the question.....Sorry about that Arnold -----Original Message----- From: Debbie Taylor To: Granny And PawPaw Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 11:16 AM Subject: Re: website >arnold >i am sorry if i offended you > >i have worked day and night for 6 weeks getting this together--a lot of the >bungi group helped me out--when i got the website up and running i was just >really excited > >did not mean to break any rules--just a little excited > >debbie > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Granny And PawPaw >To: bungi >Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 4:35 PM >Subject: Fw: website > > >>Are we allowed to advertise our business through bungi? >> >>Arnold >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: daver!one.net!kleeman >>To: glass@bungi.com >>Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 11:23 AM >>Subject: website >> >> >>>Hi everyone >>>well, i finally got my online catalog up and running >>>http://www.taylordExpressions.com >>> >>>the online catalog has about 1200 items, to be a total of about 2000 items >>>online. the printed catalog will be out in about two weeks (typing as >fast >>>as i can on it) it will have about 7000item in it. >>> >>>anyone contacting me in the next two week with their snail mail address >>will >>>receive 25% off the catalog, forever. not a one time discount, but a >>>forever discount. >>> >>>if you don't see what you want online, call or e-mail me kleeman@one.net >>for >>>availability. >>> >>>i am trying to make it easy for everyone to order everything they need >from >>>one place. this also means one shipping charge. and no minimum order >>>required. >>> >>>please let me know any comments (good and bad) you have pertaining to the >>>site. i have an 888 number, so if you have any questions, feel free to >>>call. please check hours of operation before calling. >>> >>>thank you for your time >>>debbie taylor >>>kleeman@one.net >>>http://www.taylordExpressions.com >>> >>> >>>---- >>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >>> >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> > > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 13:06:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:11:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY From: JJKIRBY@aol.com To: CncptThnkr@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: What goes on? Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:08:15 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb2.20815.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/2/99 5:00:13 AM Pacific Standard Time, CncptThnkr@aol.com writes: << I really want to do something with foil and lead in the same project, anyone have an idea? Thanks, >> I did a panel once using lead came and copper foil. The panel had glass framing strips all around the perimeter. I'm not sure why I used lead came on those perimeter pieces. It might have been aethestic - maybe I thought it would look straighter. More likely, I thought I could save some soldering time, forgetting that I would have to putty the came. Anyway, I like to use lead came once in awhile because it's so medieval. Using techniques that haven't changed for 500 -1000 years is fun. The oldest piece of stained glass dates to 681, from Jarrow Monastery. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 13:31:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:15:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!Charles_Spitzer From: "Charles Spitzer" To: "glass" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: using shopvac in glass workshops Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:20:01 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.6201.0> Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: mschatee@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 10:38 AM Subject: Re: NG-advice for Northerners >(By the way I'm sucking with a shop vac which I bought after the >last storm). Actually I'm glad I had to buy the shop vac since I am now >using it to clean the glass shards out of my Morton grid and the water >and guk out of my grinder. >So back to the basement for me (and I planned on doing glass today). Gee >do you think I'd have a problem soldering in a puddle of water? > >Enjoying being a Northerner (NOT) > >Caren anyone but me see the problem with this? i don't think the sleeve filter on your shopvac will stop too much glass dust, and thus when it dries and you turn it on again, you've filled your workshop air with loads of glass dust. unless you're using a respirator, i don't think you want to do this. scrape out your grinder dust while it is still wet, and discard in a closed bag immediately. regards, charlie phx, az ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 13:38:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:20:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY From: JJKIRBY@aol.com To: pigznpawz@mindspring.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: NG--Southerners, oh and you too, Patrick Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:18:24 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb2.201824.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/2/99 8:49:51 AM Pacific Standard Time, pigznpawz@mindspring.com writes: << A true Southerner doesn't microwave bacon. It's not any good unless you fry it and really soak it in it's own grease. ;) >> I will stack the Quebecers up against the Dixiecrats any time for their love of all things hog fat. A singular delicacy is fried slices of what we New Englanders call salt pork, it may be called fat back in the South. The also like to spread their bread with that stuff that coagulates in the bottom of the roasting pork pan. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 13:58:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:48:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Carol Swann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 14:57:47 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.85747.0> References: <<199902021921.LAA13722@oceanus.island.net>> Precedence: bulk > What about when your truck is unattended? Do you have concerns about > vandalism? For me, I can see a double edged sword here...waiting hours in a > parking lot with bored individuals in a ferry lineup could lead to > orders...never thought about that...but what about possible vandalism during > the 2 hour ferry ride? Having taken those ferry rides, sans glass, I think I'd take a beverage and good book and make the ride with the glass. Up on deck on return trip. Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 14:02:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:30:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: NG--hot bacon? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:36:45 +0000 Message-ID: <199902022029.PAA14687@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > PS I Have it on good authority that both southern and northern bachelors > use the same recipe for bacon (and everything else): > Microwave till hot. The bacon or the bachelor? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 14:21:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:21:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!vlg From: "Vincent LaGreca" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NG-advice for Northerners Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:17:02 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.11172.0> Precedence: bulk Give me the North anytime. Three weeks ago, in the height of an ice and snow storm, my wife and I took off for Naples (made the wrong choice) Florida to combine a search for a winter home excursion with a vacation. Four days into the trip I had to fly home with what I thought was a sinus infection. I got off the plane in Newark NJ into a limo straight up to my doctors, who we called by cell phone from the air. From there into an ambulance for a trip to the hospital where I spent nine days being treated for pneumonia and diminished lung capacity, and have been home recuperating for the last ten days. This was probably the most uncomfortable and potentially dangerous flights of my life. Who the h*ll knew you could kill yourself by flying first class? I am back home in NJ now where its safe! Where we use olive oil instead of bacon grease, grits (polenta) can be cooked "al'Dente" (ala Joe Pesce), and no one cares if they're the instant variety. Great to be back and recuporating. Ciao Vic -----Original Message----- From: mschatee@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 3:17 PM Subject: Re: NG-advice for Northerners >Speaking of Northerners...I am one, true blue, born and bred New Yorker, >the worst kind of Northerner I know. So we have had a tough winter. Two >weeks ago we had tons of snow then rain, which led to melting and >flooding in my basement. I had to take apart my stained glass area of >the basement to suck up the water. Well a few days ago I finally put it >all back together and got back to glass work. Well here we go again, we >had an ice storm last night (some benefits I got a snow day today being a >teacher), but I'm back to sucking up water again right under my glass >tables. (By the way I'm sucking with a shop vac which I bought after the >last storm). Actually I'm glad I had to buy the shop vac since I am now >using it to clean the glass shards out of my Morton grid and the water >and guk out of my grinder. >So back to the basement for me (and I planned on doing glass today). Gee >do you think I'd have a problem soldering in a puddle of water? > >Enjoying being a Northerner (NOT) > >Caren > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 16:06:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:20:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!mschatee From: mschatee@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: NG--Southerners, oh and you too, Patrick Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 18:15:56 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb2.231556.0> References: <<1999Feb2.201824.0>> Precedence: bulk And we Jews spread that rendered Chicken Fat all over everything. Well at least my grandmother did. Of course anything fried and greasy no matter what the source is usually pretty darn yummy. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 16:28:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:22:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!mschatee From: mschatee@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: NG-advice for Northerners Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 18:15:56 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb2.231556.0> References: <<006501be4ef1$d4deab00$cf384f0c@u16rl>> Precedence: bulk Gee Vic I certainly hope you are feeling better. Serves you right for flying first class! >From all of us in COACH Class. Hope you are back on your feet. Caren ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 16:39:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:33:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: Witchdoc3@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG-about that bacon grease...... Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 17:53:55 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.95355.0> References: <<1999Feb2.18853.0@[207.126.97.2]>> Organization: SBWSA Precedence: bulk As a transplanted New Jerseyite? to NC, forget the bacon, where do you get Wonder Bread? I bring it back from NJ and freeze it, cain't git it in these parts. Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote: > IA's enquiring mind wants to know: > > >Suzanne de Tulsa, > > > >Ummm, after you microwave the bacon do you squeeze the grease out of the > paper > >towels???? True northerner here, can ya tell?? > > Hell, no! Y' cain't cook bacon in no newfangled gadget like that! Y'all gotta > use a big ol' cast-arn skillet! > > Sparks Born in California but with a grammaw an' grampaw from > Arkinsaw, who larned me real good that the basic food groups > are hambeans, Wonder bread, and milk gravy made with > that good ol' bacon grease > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 16:50:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:35:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: Albert Lewis Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG--hot bacon? Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 17:40:56 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.94056.0> References: <<199902022029.PAA14687@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Organization: SBWSA Precedence: bulk Both Albert Lewis wrote: > > PS I Have it on good authority that both southern and northern bachelors > > use the same recipe for bacon (and everything else): > > Microwave till hot. > > The bacon or the bachelor? > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 17:01:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:03:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!mschatee From: mschatee@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: using shopvac in glass workshops Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 18:15:56 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb2.231556.0> References: <<1999Feb2.6201.0>> Precedence: bulk Gee I never thought about the glass dust going back into the air. Thanks for the great advice and I thought I was doing something good:-) Oh well back to scrapping guk. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 18:02:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:10:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: NG--Southerners, oh and you too, Patrick Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:09:14 -0800 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Okay...this got my attention:) Bacon fat, eh??? I don't know where this came from...(mom was English and dad from New Zealand)...but you take a piece of bread and fry it in bacon fat dripping...with the morning breakfast of scrambled eggs and tomatoes!! Not often do I eat it..grin, but it's good! Cindy >In a message dated 2/2/99 8:49:51 AM Pacific Standard Time, >pigznpawz@mindspring.com writes: > ><< A true Southerner doesn't microwave bacon. It's not any good unless you >fry > it and really soak it in it's own grease. ;) >> > >I will stack the Quebecers up against the Dixiecrats any time for their >love of all things hog fat. > >A singular delicacy is fried slices of what we New Englanders call >salt pork, it may be called fat back in the South. The also like to >spread their bread with that stuff that coagulates in the bottom >of the roasting pork pan. > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 18:34:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:21:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:18:59 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.91859.0> Precedence: bulk I have my glass rack mounted in the back of a Chevy El Camino. The low side makes it convient to handle glass in and out. With the help of the air shocks can rack 100+ sheets of glass, 250 pounds of lead came and a case of Spectrum in one load. I routinely transport glass fron Los Angeles to Escondido, a distance of about 90 miles, at 70 MPH. About once in ten trips will I have a sheet of glass cracked- likely due to a "stone" or pressure point on an adjacent piece of glass. I use double nylon cynch straps and adjust them moderately tight. I have never had any damage to transported glass from road trash. I know of a studio that backed out of the driveway and had 14 cabinet door panels fall over due to not being strapped. Broke six. I often stop for coffee halfway on my trip down from LA and will check the load before getting underway again. Moderate tightening is often in order. I would have no reservations in transporting glass or panels across country by this method. Of course, I would want to take some provision to insure against thieft. If the chance comes my way I might get something like a 1932 Ford pickup truck to transport glass. Might just park it while loaded with a likely panel where the public could see it. Bob >2. I was once flagged down by a fellow motorest and given an order. Hey Bob...first time I read that I read ticket instead of order...thought maybe it was illegal in Calif to leave your glass exposed :) (thinking of Patrick and his tutu here). So if you leave the glass uncovered it's like a rolling billboard!! In all seriousness though, I'm wondering how far you transport glass and at what speed? Many of my deliveries require highway speed travel for 4 hours...I tend to go through a new windshield every couple of years thanks to flying rocks kicked up by other motorists. Are your deliveries similar? And you've never had a flying rock problem? What about when your truck is unattended? Do you have concerns about vandalism? For me, I can see a double edged sword here...waiting hours in a parking lot with bored individuals in a ferry lineup could lead to orders...never thought about that...but what about possible vandalism during the 2 hour ferry ride? Guess I'd like to hear more about your delivery trips...how long are they? C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Please note new address of: bobdu@prodigy.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 18:41:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:26:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG-advice for Northerners Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 20:25:43 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.152543.0> References: <<1999Feb2.124438.0>> Precedence: bulk I think you COVER the bacon with the paper towels so you don't waste any of that lovely grease by splattering it around. (If you are making a cake, don't grease the cake tins with bacon grease....a lesson learned at the age of 13 while living in Florida.) CncptThnkr@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/1/99 10:38:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, > gunnx4@ix.netcom.com writes: > > > 1. Save all manner of bacon grease. You will be instructed later how > > to > > > > use it. > > Suzanne de Tulsa, > > Ummm, after you microwave the bacon do you squeeze the grease out of the paper > towels???? True northerner here, can ya tell?? > > Take care. > > IA > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 19:13:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:38:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 20:37:47 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.153747.0> References: <<1999Feb2.1893.0>> Precedence: bulk Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote: > most people don't think about: where do stained glass windows come from, > anyway? How do they get where they're going? etc. etc. > I sometimes think I ought to carry around a couple largish suncatchers to hang in my car windows -- like from the hooks for clothes hangers -- when i'm parked at the shopping center.... Telephone number discretely displayed, of course. Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 19:13:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:46:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: What goes on? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 01:18:57 +0000 Message-ID: <199902030145.BAA16201@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk What? Who? ME? A Battleaxe of a Swedish Viking being called an "English Chick" :-< Ghrumphhh! That'll be the day!! Toby! Here Boy! Let go of that woman's leg E 'n T IN Uk ( ...not OF!!) Tulsa Suzanne wrote: Myself, All I have ever done is copperfoil, and stepping stones. But am going to learn to do lead work soon! ;o) Waiting for this really cool English chick to visit the USA...I bet you hear about her soon too. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 19:32:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:47:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: NG-about that bacon grease...... Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 01:18:57 +0000 Message-ID: <199902030145.BAA16288@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hi All, Not only have I glandular fever, ear infection and goodness knows what else..... BUT my computer also CRASHED on me!!! Bahh-haaa!!! Spent almost a week without any mail, nor able to while away my sickbed hours answering mail and being cheered up. My ears are crackling away and I'm as deaf as a post (....so! What's NEW!!) Kris - my computer-knight in wonderful shining armour has just rescued me and so I'm back on line again. BACON!!!! Did someone mention B A C O N ????!!! I drool for BACON after eating liquid food for the last 7 weeks!! Suzanne in Tulsa, you sound just my kind of COOK!! MICROWAVE bacon. Total sacrilege!!! Either frying pan ( = skillet??) or maximum under the grill for me. Anyone coming to stay with me here in UK will almost certainly be served a full English breakfast ; grilled/fried bacon, sausages, fried eggs, grilled mushrooms ( in bacon fat), grilled tomatoes on a bed of hot toast, together with a generous portion of baked beans; fried potato slices and huge mugs of Earl Grey Tea. Mopping away the bacon fat with kitchen paper?? Nah!!! Right now.... Sigh.... Pigs might fly..... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK IA's enquiring mind wants to know: >Suzanne de Tulsa, > >Ummm, after you microwave the bacon do you squeeze the grease out of the paper >towels???? True northerner here, can ya tell?? Hell, no! Y' cain't cook bacon in no newfangled gadget like that! Y'all gotta use a big ol' cast-arn skillet! Sparks Born in California but with a grammaw an' grampaw from Arkinsaw, who larned me real good that the basic food groups are hambeans, Wonder bread, and milk gravy made with that good ol' bacon grease ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 19:36:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:47:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: NG: shyguy Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 01:18:58 +0000 Message-ID: <199902030145.BAA16250@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk I've lost someone special in my extended family Ok Folks, Bob's wife is called Maxine Bob won't need us anymore, She quite likely just might. She sounds a wonderfully warm person. I have had a couple of e-mails from her (before my system crashed!!) So let's remember by keeping in touch with HER! And not just NOW, but even more importantly, in a year's time.... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Just needed to share that. Shirley B >> Oh this was wonderful. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 19:54:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:47:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Snail Mail Address Bob Shyguy Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 01:18:58 +0000 Message-ID: <199902030145.BAA16283@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Dear Glenna, Thank you for posting that snail mail address. I - for one - will write to Maxine via snailmail. We may be terribly keen and anxious to "talk" stained glass. There is room for human interactions too - something I have always advocated. The memories and statements about Bob.... just speak for themselves. We have lost not just a stained glass artist, not just a "Bunginian" but a lovely person too.....and so many people have anecdotes to tell. That is only right. What concerns me is that Maxine should be able to find support from us in 12 months time. Right now, her family and friends are / will be rallying around. The hardest time is the time when everyone walks off to live their own lives, with THEIR loved ones and you are left there sitting there with this awful gap in your life, this painful hollow that gnaws away at you. It's THAT which takes its time to eat its way through. It isn't instant, it takes time before it really hits you in the face. So can we please get together in 12 months time to remember Bob Shyguy and - perhaps - be "THERE" for Maxine..... I do hope so........ Life just isn't fair.... it has never claimed to be. It's up to each and every one of us to redress the balance.. Thank you Glenna! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Glenna Rand wrote: Maxine Meyerhardt (I'm a feminest and didn't take Bob's name which was van Valen) 130 Atlantic Avenue Massapequa Park, NY 11762 His sons are Derek and Marshall van Valen ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 19:56:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:14:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: mail failed, returning to sender Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:13:42 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.161342.0> Precedence: bulk -------------Forwarded Message----------------- From: INTERNET:MAILER-DAEMON@daver.bungi.com, INTERNET:MAILER-DAEMON@dave= r.bungi.com To: [unknown], GreerStudios = Date: 2/2/99 5:20 PM RE: mail failed, returning to sender Sender: <> Received: from daver.bungi.com (daver.bungi.com [207.126.97.2]) by dub-img-12.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) with ESMTP id UAA29905 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:19:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from daver.bungi.com by daver.bungi.com via sendmail with bsmtp id for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:19:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:19:57 -0800 (PST) From: To: GreerStudios@compuserve.com Subject: mail failed, returning to sender Reference: |------------------------- Message log follows: -------------------------= | no valid recipients were found for this message |------------------------- Failed addresses follow: ---------------------= | ... unknown user |------------------------- Message text follows: ------------------------= | Received: from hil-img-7.compuserve.com(really [149.174.177.137]) by dave= r.bungi.com via sendmail with esmtp id for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:19:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hil-img-7.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id UAA15012 for all@bungi.com; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:19:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:18:46 -0500 From: Dani Greer Subject: Not again! Argghhhhh! Sender: Dani Greer To: Everyone Message-ID: <199902022019_MC2-6904-46EE@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Hi everyone- My computer kicked the bucket again today, so I'm in the process of getti= =3D ng to know my new one (so far I hate it!) Also has new CompuServe software and I'm totally in the dark. Hope this gets to you. Please post something s= =3D o I can add you to my address book again and could someone send me the IGGA board addresses? =3D Phfzzztttt! :-( Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ =3D ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 20:12:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:49:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NG--Southerners, oh and you too, Patrick Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:49:49 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.144949.0> Precedence: bulk Not really. Actually, I translated it for her, and told her I never argue with 5 year old .... They win too often. Boy .... do I need to get back to the studio, -----Original Message----- From: daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@mail.n-link.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 2:25 PM Subject: RE: NG--Southerners, oh and you too, Patrick >This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand >this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. > >------ =_NextPart_001_01BE4EDE.19908D04 >Content-Type: text/plain > >Jerri > >Comparing Patrick to a 5 yr. old? >Isn't that being unfair to Patrick? > >Vic M. >vmodiano@ctronsoft.com > >PS I Have it on good authority that both southern and northern bachelors >use the same recipe for bacon (and everything else): >Microwave till hot. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerri [mailto:pigznpawz@mindspring.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 11:02 AM > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: NG--Southerners, oh and you too, Patrick > > A true Southerner doesn't microwave bacon. It's not any >good unless you fry > it and really soak it in it's own grease. ;) > > Jerri > from Georgia > > > P.S. Patrick, my 5 yr. old will argue with you. It >really goes, "I'm late. > I'm late. I'm being fortune tate." I haven't quite >figured out what that > means, but I'm corrected every time I say "for a very >important date." > > > > > > > >> 1. Save all manner of bacon grease. You will be >instructed later how > >> to > >> > > use it. > > > >Suzanne de Tulsa, > > > >Ummm, after you microwave the bacon do you squeeze the >grease out of the > paper > >towels???? True northerner here, can ya tell?? > > > >Take care. > > > >IA > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: >glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: >glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >------ =_NextPart_001_01BE4EDE.19908D04 >Content-Type: text/html >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > >charset=3Dus-ascii"> >5.5.1960.3"> >RE: NG--Southerners, oh and you too, Patrick > > > >

Jerri >

> >

Comparing Patrick to a 5 yr. old? = > >
Isn't that being unfair to = >Patrick? >

> >

Vic M. >
vmodiano@ctronsoft.com >

> >

PS I Have it on good authority that = >both southern and northern bachelors use the same recipe for bacon (and = >everything else):

> >

Microwave till hot. >

>
      >

      -----Original = >Message----- >
      From:   Jerri [HREF=3D"mailto:pigznpawz@mindspring.com" = >TARGET=3D"_blank">mailto:pigznpawz@mindspring.com] >
      Sent:   SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Tuesday, February 02, 1999 11:02 AM >
      FACE=3D"Arial">To:     FACE=3D"Arial">glass@bungi.com >
      FACE=3D"Arial">Subject:       = > NG--Southerners, oh and you too, = >Patrick >

      > >

      A true Southerner doesn't microwave = >bacon.  It's not any good unless you fry >
      it and really soak it in it's own = >grease.  ;) >

      > >

      Jerri >
      from Georgia >

      >
      > >

      P.S. Patrick,  my 5 yr. old will = >argue with you.  It really goes, "I'm late. >
      I'm late.  I'm being fortune = >tate."  I haven't quite figured out what that >
      means, but I'm corrected every time I = >say "for a very important date." >

      >
      >
      >
      > >

      > >
      >>  1. Save all manner of = >bacon grease.  You will be instructed later how >
      >>  to >
      >>  > > use = >it. >
      > >
      >Suzanne de Tulsa, >
      > >
      >Ummm, after you microwave the = >bacon do you squeeze the grease out of the >
      paper >
      >towels????  True northerner = >here, can ya tell?? >
      > >
      >Take care. >
      > >
      >IA >

      > >

      ---- >
      For subscription changes, please mail = >to: glass-request@bungi.com >
      To send to the = >list,      please mail to: = >glass@bungi.com >
      Archives available at HREF=3D"http://www.bungi.com/glass" = >TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.bungi.com/glass >

      >
> > >------ =_NextPart_001_01BE4EDE.19908D04-- >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 20:21:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:54:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "Charles Spitzer" , "glass" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: using shopvac in glass workshops Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:54:34 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.145434.0> Precedence: bulk I think what she is saying is vacuuming the Morton grid system and getting out the shards. I never vacuum the grinder. -----Original Message----- From: Charles Spitzer To: glass Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 3:48 PM Subject: using shopvac in glass workshops >-----Original Message----- >From: mschatee@juno.com >To: glass@bungi.com >Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 10:38 AM >Subject: Re: NG-advice for Northerners > > > >>(By the way I'm sucking with a shop vac which I bought after the >>last storm). Actually I'm glad I had to buy the shop vac since I am now >>using it to clean the glass shards out of my Morton grid and the water >>and guk out of my grinder. >>So back to the basement for me (and I planned on doing glass today). Gee >>do you think I'd have a problem soldering in a puddle of water? >> >>Enjoying being a Northerner (NOT) >> >>Caren > >anyone but me see the problem with this? i don't think the sleeve filter on >your shopvac will stop too much glass dust, and thus when it dries and you >turn it on again, you've filled your workshop air with loads of glass dust. >unless you're using a respirator, i don't think you want to do this. > >scrape out your grinder dust while it is still wet, and discard in a closed >bag immediately. > >regards, >charlie >phx, az > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 20:28:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:19:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Conure Pattern Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:19:26 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.151926.0> Precedence: bulk There has been such a demand for this pattern I'll complete the rest who haven't received them yet. Anybody else?? Just ask .... Its free. BTW I just got my photos back and will email a jpg file to anyone who would like it. (except the canine from Cornwall who will probably eat it) PS Forgot all about the archived patterns we have. Who is in charge of that and I send the pattern and jpg to you for future use. Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 20:35:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:56:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "Albert Lewis" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NG--hot bacon? Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:58:16 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.145816.0> Precedence: bulk Albert, I feel sorry for you. You are sick as I am. ROFL -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis To: glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 4:15 PM Subject: RE: NG--hot bacon? > >> PS I Have it on good authority that both southern and northern bachelors >> use the same recipe for bacon (and everything else): >> Microwave till hot. > > >The bacon or the bachelor? >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 20:41:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:32:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "Toby" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: What goes on? Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:33:26 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.153326.0> Precedence: bulk E' You did post you were a" Mother Hen, cluck, cluck, cluck." Now you are an "English Chick". As least she didn't call you a "Chipie" or a "Bird". LOL You are back to your same old self. Looking forward to your visit (like the chicken pox) LOL -----Original Message----- From: Toby To: glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 9:24 PM Subject: Re: What goes on? >What? Who? ME? >A Battleaxe of a Swedish Viking being called an "English Chick" >:-< >Ghrumphhh! >That'll be the day!! >Toby! Here Boy! Let go of that woman's leg >E 'n T IN Uk ( ...not OF!!) > >Tulsa Suzanne wrote: >Myself, All I have ever done is copperfoil, and stepping stones. But am >going to learn to do lead work soon! ;o) Waiting for this really cool >English chick to visit the USA...I bet you hear about her soon too. > >---- >As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" >North Lights Stained Glass - homepage >http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm >---- >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 20:49:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:34:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: Cindy Pesonen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG--Southerners, oh and you too, Patrick Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 19:15:17 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb3.111517.0> References: <> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk Cindy Pesonen wrote: > > Okay...this got my attention:) > Bacon fat, eh??? I don't know where this came from...(mom was English and > dad from New Zealand)...but you take a piece of bread and fry it in bacon > fat dripping...with the morning breakfast of scrambled eggs and tomatoes!! > Not often do I eat it..grin, but it's good! > Cindy > > >In a message dated 2/2/99 8:49:51 AM Pacific Standard Time, > >pigznpawz@mindspring.com writes: > > > ><< A true Southerner doesn't microwave bacon. It's not any good unless you > >fry > > it and really soak it in it's own grease. ;) >> > > > >I will stack the Quebecers up against the Dixiecrats any time for their > >love of all things hog fat. > > > >A singular delicacy is fried slices of what we New Englanders call > >salt pork, it may be called fat back in the South. The also like to > >spread their bread with that stuff that coagulates in the bottom > >of the roasting pork pan. > > > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > I have heard of this...my mother is from England too and she was in the Navy and apparently the bread and bacon fat business was what they'd all sneak down to the kitchen and gorge on after dinner. Apparently she got pretty big too in the course of things...she lost it all but I just cant imagine a bedtime snack every nite of bacon grease and bread...ugh. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 20:50:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:34:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "Family Account" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:34:29 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.153429.0> Precedence: bulk Why Not?? It pays to advertise. -----Original Message----- From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 9:24 PM Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass > > >Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote: > >> most people don't think about: where do stained glass windows come from, >> anyway? How do they get where they're going? etc. etc. >> > >I sometimes think I ought to carry around a couple largish suncatchers to hang in >my car windows -- like from the hooks for clothes hangers -- when i'm parked at >the shopping center.... Telephone number discretely displayed, of course. > >Dorothy > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 21:21:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:40:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: Mosfunland@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: what is bungi? by L Nelson Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:37:10 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb3.43710.0> Precedence: bulk Hi, One of the best things we do is commmmmmisserate....everyone is very supportive here, and only once have we had to stand in the corner for bad behavior. Often someone finds a great website on glass and passes it to the group....unlike meeting in a crowded room and someone passes you the flu.....and eventually you will "meet" the members of the list through their e-mails. Maureen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 21:33:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:02:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Pat Kelly Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: What goes on? Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 23:05:15 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.17515.0> References: <<1999Feb2.153326.0>> Precedence: bulk Now, listen here, before y'all go to sickin the dogs on me, that's a compliment in my neck o' the woods! Really, Elisabeth, you should know better! ;o) let's see..what would a *really* bold student of yours in England say just before ducking? "Now, don't get your knickers twisted!"? Tulsa Suzanne.... (Keep in mind Elisabeth, the kids are asleep, I'm windin down, and I've had/having my wine!) Pat Kelly wrote: > > E' > > You did post you were a" Mother Hen, cluck, cluck, cluck." Now you are an > "English Chick". As least she didn't call you a "Chipie" or a "Bird". LOL > > You are back to your same old self. Looking forward to your visit (like the > chicken pox) LOL > > -----Original Message----- > From: Toby > To: glass@bungi.com > Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 9:24 PM > Subject: Re: What goes on? > > >What? Who? ME? > >A Battleaxe of a Swedish Viking being called an "English Chick" > >:-< > >Ghrumphhh! > >That'll be the day!! > >Toby! Here Boy! Let go of that woman's leg > >E 'n T IN Uk ( ...not OF!!) > > > >Tulsa Suzanne wrote: > >Myself, All I have ever done is copperfoil, and stepping stones. But am > >going to learn to do lead work soon! ;o) Waiting for this really cool > >English chick to visit the USA...I bet you hear about her soon too. > > > >---- > >As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" > >North Lights Stained Glass - homepage > >http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm > >---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 21:54:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:24:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Carol Swann" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:21:00 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb2.13210.0> Precedence: bulk Carol Swann writes, in part: >>Thanks for answering Bob. I appreciate the advice. Sheet glass I get delivered to my door once a month by my wholesaler...he puts them right into the racks. Pay $20 towards delivery whether it's a $200 order or a $1000 order. << No chance of me getting that service but I would sure like to. You or anyone else that sends me (not the list) a request will get a JPEG attachment of my glass rack. It was purchased from Pacific Glass, Gardinia, CA., but a handy person should be able to construct one from the picture. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Please note new address of: bobdu@prodigy.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 2 22:09:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:27:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:26:42 -0800 Message-ID: <199902030526.VAA28661@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk Why Not?? > >It pays to advertise. >>Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote: >> >>> most people don't think about: where do stained glass windows come from, >>> anyway? How do they get where they're going? etc. etc. >>> >> >>I sometimes think I ought to carry around a couple largish suncatchers to >hang in >>my car windows -- like from the hooks for clothes hangers -- when i'm >parked at >>the shopping center.... Telephone number discretely displayed, of course. >> >>Dorothy On glass racks I'm planning, part of the plan is to add studio name, phone number and slogan "you imagine it...we create it", sort of an unbreakable version of Dorothy's "earrings for her car"...the suncatchers she hangs in the window. There's only one drawback to this...gotta keep the truck washed, waxed and polished :( if it's gonna be a travelling billboard. Maybe I should get the dent from its close inspection of a ditch taken out too :) C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 3 01:49:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 01:27:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep From: "Brian Shepherd" To: "Cindy Pesonen" , Subject: Winge winge! Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:07:33 -0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb3.9733.0> Precedence: bulk The full English breakfast is great and who's worried about chloesterol (sp?) anyway but why have I not heard you talk about beef dripping on toast? The ultimate artery clogging invention from old Blighty! Beef dripping is a mixture of the cooking juices and the fat from roasting beef! Ok it might sound disgusting but the Eskimos eat blubber and they have the lowest cancer rate in the world! If the English food of my mother isn't bad enough then my father's native dishes - short ribs - chicken and dumplings - huge steaks - fudge brownies would see me off properly! I'm not allowed any of these excesses so I can only dream on! BtB ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 3 05:24:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 04:59:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netusa1.net!t6686 From: L Nelson To: Pat Kelly Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Conure Pattern Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 08:08:55 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb3.0855.0> References: <<1999Feb2.151926.0>> Precedence: bulk I would like pattern thanks Laura I hope this goes threw I am not sure yet how this works but give me time and I will figure it out then you all will get tired of hearing from me,,,, Laura Pat Kelly wrote: > There has been such a demand for this pattern I'll complete the rest who > haven't received them yet. > Anybody else?? Just ask .... Its free. > > BTW I just got my photos back and will email a jpg file to anyone who would > like it. (except the canine from Cornwall who will probably eat it) > > PS Forgot all about the archived patterns we have. Who is in charge of that > and I send the pattern and jpg to you for future use. > > Patrick > Roses and Rainbows > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 3 06:42:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 06:21:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: What goes on? Date: Wed Feb 3 06:19:46 1999 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.35746.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_001_01BE4F7E.4295ABB2 Content-Type: text/plain You are much closer to a chick than a battleaxe. Aren't you the one with the pixie smile and sweet expression? (Toby, please note the filet mignon scattered around the floor.) Vic M. PS I E-mailed WC asking how to reserve but haven't heard back yet. Is this a good thing? -----Original Message----- From: Toby [mailto:toby@northlights.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 8:19 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What goes on? What? Who? ME? A Battleaxe of a Swedish Viking being called an "English Chick" :-< Ghrumphhh! That'll be the day!! Toby! Here Boy! Let go of that woman's leg E 'n T IN Uk ( ...not OF!!) Tulsa Suzanne wrote: Myself, All I have ever done is copperfoil, and stepping stones. But am going to learn to do lead work soon! ;o) Waiting for this really cool English chick to visit the USA...I bet you hear about her soon too. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------ =_NextPart_001_01BE4F7E.4295ABB2 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: What goes on?

You are much closer to a chick than a = battleaxe.
Aren't you the one with the pixie = smile and sweet expression?
(Toby, please note the filet mignon = scattered around the floor.)

Vic M.

PS I E-mailed WC asking how to reserve = but haven't heard back yet. Is this a good thing? 

      -----Original = Message-----
      From:   Toby [mailto:toby@northlights.co.uk]
      Sent:   Tuesday, February 02, 1999 8:19 PM
      To:     glass@bungi.com
      Subject:       = Re: What goes on?

      What? Who? ME?
      A Battleaxe of a Swedish Viking being = called an "English Chick"
      :-<
      Ghrumphhh!
      That'll be the day!!
      Toby! Here Boy! Let go of that = woman's leg
      E 'n T IN Uk ( ...not OF!!)

      Tulsa Suzanne wrote:
      Myself, All I have ever done is = copperfoil, and stepping stones. But am
      going to learn to do lead work soon! = ;o)  Waiting for this really cool
      English chick to visit the USA...I = bet you hear about her soon too.

      ----
      As my grandmother said "...there = is only nobility of mind"
      North Lights Stained Glass - = homepage
      http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.= htm
      ----
      ----
      For subscription changes, please mail = to: glass-request@bungi.com
      To send to the = list,      please mail to: = glass@bungi.com
      Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

------ =_NextPart_001_01BE4F7E.4295ABB2-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 3 07:26:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 06:58:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: NG--hot bacon? Date: Wed Feb 3 06:57:20 1999 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.43520.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_001_01BE4F83.E2D8D9C8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I think the bachelor holds the bacon in the microwave. I'm married now and those single days memories are slowly being beaten, um... forced out, er make that .... Lets just call it selective memory loss and leave it at that. Vic M. Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis [mailto:alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 10:37 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: NG--hot bacon? > PS I Have it on good authority that both southern and northern bachelors > use the same recipe for bacon (and everything else): > Microwave till hot. The bacon or the bachelor? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------ =_NextPart_001_01BE4F83.E2D8D9C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: NG--hot bacon?

I think the bachelor holds the bacon = in the microwave.
I'm married now and those single days = memories are slowly being beaten, um... forced out, er make that = ....
Lets just call it selective memory = loss and leave it at that.

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com
 

      -----Original = Message-----
      From:   Albert Lewis [mailto:alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net]
      Sent:   Tuesday, February 02, 1999 10:37 AM
      To:     glass@bungi.com
      Subject:       = RE: NG--hot bacon?


      > PS I Have it on good authority = that both southern and northern bachelors
      > use the same recipe for bacon = (and everything else):
      > Microwave till hot.


      The bacon or the bachelor?
      ----
      For subscription changes, please mail = to: glass-request@bungi.com
      To send to the = list,      please mail to: = glass@bungi.com
      Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

------ =_NextPart_001_01BE4F83.E2D8D9C8-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 3 07:59:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:01:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: NG--Southerners, oh and you too, Patrick Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:00:02 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb3.502.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:JJKIRBY@aol.com >The also like to spread their bread with that stuff that coagulates in the bottom = of the roasting pork pan.< Ugh. I made the mistake of reading that while sipping my hot tea & milk. Yuck. Too many memories here. Christie A. Wood (raised in Shreveport, Louisiana where bacon grease rule= s) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 3 08:24:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:56:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: vmodiano@ctronsoft.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG--hot bacon? Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 09:58:33 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb3.35833.0> References: <<1999Feb4.43520.0>> Precedence: bulk Vic, When ever my husband thinks the house isnt as neat or clean as it should be, I remind him what color the kitchen sink and bathtub were when we met. Even at it's worse now, it is *WAY* better than before! ;o) Amazes me he didnt get some awful disease! Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 3 08:57:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:14:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:13:28 -0800 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk 1932 or even in the early 40's sure would look classy, Bob. Good luck with your glass racks Carol. I can understand your concern while on the ferry... Vandlism (sp..too early for spelling) is a scary thought, but what can ya do, maybe a clear sheet of window glass on the exterior. Cindy >If the chance comes my way I might get something like a 1932 Ford pickup >truck to transport glass. Might just park it while loaded with a likely >panel where the public could see it. > >Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 3 09:23:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:14:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: NG-advice for Northerners Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:14:04 -0800 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Unless you're making *pigs in a blankey*...(blanket), grin. Cindy >(If you are making a cake, don't grease the cake tins with bacon grease....a >lesson learned at the age of 13 while living in Florida.) > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 3 09:24:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:16:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Winge winge! Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:14:55 -0800 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk >Yikes...we did eat alot of that too. The Sunday roast lasted a long time. The finial last supper of it was after your namesake Brian:)...Shepherd's pie.. >Beef dripping on toast was ultimately my sister's fav, but I have learnt to make excellent gravy:):) >Cindy > > >>The full English breakfast is great and who's worried about chloesterol >>(sp?) anyway but why have I not heard you talk about beef dripping on toast? >>The ultimate artery clogging invention from old Blighty! >> >>Beef dripping is a mixture of the cooking juices and the fat from roasting >>beef! Ok it might sound disgusting but the Eskimos eat blubber and they have >>the lowest cancer rate in the world! >> >>If the English food of my mother isn't bad enough then my father's native >>dishes - short ribs - chicken and dumplings - huge steaks - fudge brownies >>would see me off properly! >> >>I'm not allowed any of these excesses so I can only dream on! >> >>BtB >> >> >> >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >> > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 3 09:44:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:16:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ucdavis.edu!krmcdonald From: "Kathe R. Mc Donald" To: "'Toby'" , "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: ENUF ALREADY! Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:11:27 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb3.21127.0> Organization: SOM - Office of Curricular Support Precedence: bulk Come on, folks, let's don't get Elisabeth riled up (English chick). I fear that these frequent illnesses she's had of late could be stress related.....what with these tales of how us Yanks eat. Don't worry Elisabeth...we'll all be on our good behavior and won't subject you to any culinary frights. We're all in for a treat....I've spent more than a few nights raising a glass with her and she's only better in person. I, for one,can't wait until she gets over here. I want to know, however, how come I didn't get the mushrooms with my breakfast???? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 3 09:54:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:24:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: detroit.freenet.org!ae479 From: ae479@detroit.freenet.org (Sue Becker) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: prairie lamps Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:22:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199902031722.MAA10271@detroit.freenet.org> Precedence: bulk We have a group getting ready to assemble the four sides of prairie lamps. I know they will not be rigid and plan to reinforce them. with 18g.wire. Has anyone tried putting a spider in and then attaching the vase cap just by screwing down on the harp. Opinions would be most welcome - would it be stronger or just a waste of time. Reply-To: ae479@detroit.freenet.org ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 3 10:23:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:25:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!GlassLites From: GlassLites@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Re: NG-advice for Northerners Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:19:40 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb3.171940.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/2/99, 4:24:39 PM, Vic writes: << This was probably the most uncomfortable and potentially dangerous flights of my life. Who the h*ll knew you could kill yourself by flying first class?>> It happens more often than you think. I have a 'day job' where I must fly all over the country several times a year. Each time I fly I come home sick and am out of work for several days. I head for my doctor who says upon seeing me "you've been flying again, I see" and perscribes assorted antibiotics. Several of my fellow workers are now (after years of flying) starting to have the same complaints. Flying ain't fun. Cheryl Lowe Glass Lites Studio GlassLites@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 3 10:24:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:31:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!GlassLites From: GlassLites@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Re: NG-about that bacon grease...... Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:30:09 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb3.17309.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/2/99, 10:50:24 PM, Elizabeth 'n Toby writes: <> Boy, does that sound good!!!! I don't have to be English to know good food when I 'see' it! Cheryl Lowe Glass Lites Studio ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 3 10:54:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:38:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tripos.com!rammann From: Rachel Ammann To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: please subscribe me to the bungi mailing list. Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 12:37:44 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb3.63744.0> Organization: Tripos Inc Precedence: bulk I suspect that I may have been removed from the mailing list because my server went nuts yesterday. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 3 11:54:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:34:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: ae479@detroit.freenet.org (Sue Becker), glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: prairie lamps Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 11:33:45 -0800 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990203113345.0093a100@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> References: <<199902031722.MAA10271@detroit.freenet.org>> Precedence: bulk At 12:22 PM 2/3/99 -0500, Sue Becker wrote: > >We have a group getting ready to assemble the four sides of prairie >lamps. I know they will not be rigid and plan to reinforce them. >with 18g.wire. Has anyone tried putting a spider in and then >attaching the vase cap just by screwing down on the harp. Opinions >would be most welcome - would it be stronger or just a waste of time. > I just use the vase cap, soldered securely all around the top. The top portion of the shade is plenty rigid with it alone. I think soldering the spider and then screwing (but not soldering) the vase case would result in a flimsier shade unless the vase cap wraps around your panels *perfectly*. It never does for me. If the shade is a bit large, the cap would tend to slide to one side, rather than stay flat, as you tighten the screw. If the shade is small, the cap won't grip the panels evenly. I have run a wire around the bottom edge to add a bit of strength there. I've also found the bottom wire to be useful in situations where sharp points come together at the bottom edge. Because of my less-than-perfect cutting skills, there is often a dip at those junctions that makes the bottom solder beading uneven. Having a wire span the dips gives the solder something to grab so the finished edge looks straighter. Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 3 12:54:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:30:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'Steve Wernecke'" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: prairie lamps Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:30:42 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb3.103042.0> Precedence: bulk If the sides made a square box, the thing would flex and distort but because each side is a trapazoid, it adds it's own strength. Linda Campbell -----Original Message----- From: Steve Wernecke [SMTP:steve@villagesoftsmith.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 2:34 PM To: Sue Becker; glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: prairie lamps At 12:22 PM 2/3/99 -0500, Sue Becker wrote: > >We have a group getting ready to assemble the four sides of prairie >lamps. I know they will not be rigid and plan to reinforce them. >with 18g.wire. Has anyone tried putting a spider in and then >attaching the vase cap just by screwing down on the harp. Opinions >would be most welcome - would it be stronger or just a waste of time. > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 3 13:32:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:33:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: NG beef grease Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 12:37:15 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb3.43715.0> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk How come no one mentioned Yorkshire Pudding? Popovers baked in roast beef fat. My personal favorite from being raised by an English War Bride mother. Gotta say, after reading all these NG post, now I know why my mother is so fond of frying everything. Although I still suspect it was cause she was/is such a busy person, it was done to save time. Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 3 14:40:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:58:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: NG $$ for research Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 16:00:51 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb3.10051.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all... Sorry to post yet another NG post..but this one means something to me... Being widowed by cancer (hard still not to think if it as a living breathing hate filled entity), I have a personal interest. I also know that at least several others on this list have been personally involved with battles with cancer. My daughter just opened a jar of yoplait yougurt to find under the lid (which is pink) it says.. "Youplait will donate 50 cents to the *Breast Cancer Research Foundation for each pink lid recieved by 4/30/99 The campain is called "Save Lids to Save Lives* (maximum donation $100,000 guarenteed) Then it goes on to give the address. I personally think this is *way, way cool*...especially since I paid 49 cents for each jar of yougurt. I intend to buy more. ;o) Just wanted to share this with you. Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 3 15:43:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:52:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Howard? Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 14:27:44 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb3.82744.0> Precedence: bulk I was reading a sg lamp book I bought today, and had a question, but it occured to me I havent seen Howard online quite a while. Howard, are you out there? Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 3 16:26:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:35:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: Sue Becker Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: prairie lamps Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:33:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1999Feb3.73358.0> References: <<199902031722.MAA10271@detroit.freenet.org>> Precedence: bulk Sue: Not sure i understand what you mean by attaching the vase cap by screwing down on the harp. Actually your spider would probably be sufficient to hold the lamp. The problem is that it will show in a prairie style lamp. I guess to answer your question, if you can attach the vase cap for looks, then it is likely the spider will be sufficent to hold the lamp. Peggy On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Sue Becker wrote: > > We have a group getting ready to assemble the four sides of prairie > lamps. I know they will not be rigid and plan to reinforce them. > with 18g.wire. Has anyone tried putting a spider in and then > attaching the vase cap just by screwing down on the harp. Opinions > would be most welcome - would it be stronger or just a waste of time. > > > Reply-To: ae479@detroit.freenet.org > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 3 16:51:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:47:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!kristc From: "Kris" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NG $$ for research Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:48:49 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb3.134849.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks for the info! The post office also sells breast cancer stamps, cost a few cents more but it's given to research. On a related subject, anyone seen the latest LIFE magazine, the article on doing your own funeral instead of going through a funeral home? It started out about cost, but ended up bringing a lot more sanity and humanity to the process. Kris > >"Youplait will donate 50 cents to the *Breast Cancer Research Foundation >for each pink lid recieved by 4/30/99 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 3 17:28:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:10:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!PDRUSS From: PDRUSS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:09:23 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb4.0923.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/2/99 3:29:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, seaspray@mail.island.net writes: << .waiting hours in a parking lot with bored individuals in a ferry lineup could lead to orders...never thought about that...but what about possible vandalism during the 2 hour ferry ride? >> We need bumper stickers. But what should they say? "I'd rather be......" what? "I'd rather be glassing" ? "I'd rether be staining" ? "I'd rather be leading" ? "I'd rather be slumping" ? any ideas? Dianne Jacksonville, FL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 3 18:22:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:01:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:00:33 -0800 Message-ID: <199902040100.RAA02694@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >In a message dated 2/2/99 3:29:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, >seaspray@mail.island.net writes: > ><< .waiting hours in a > parking lot with bored individuals in a ferry lineup could lead to > orders...never thought about that...but what about possible vandalism during > the 2 hour ferry ride? >> > > > > >We need bumper stickers. But what should they say? > >"I'd rather be......" > >what? > > >"I'd rather be glassing" ? >"I'd rether be staining" ? >"I'd rather be leading" ? >"I'd rather be slumping" ? > >any ideas? I'd rather be SCORING...of course!! C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 3 18:45:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:46:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: PDRUSS@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 19:49:42 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb3.134942.0> References: <<1999Feb4.0923.0>> Precedence: bulk > We need bumper stickers. But what should they say? > > "I'd rather be......" > > what? > > > "I'd rather be glassing" ? > "I'd rether be staining" ? > "I'd rather be leading" ? > "I'd rather be slumping" ? > > any ideas? > > > Dianne > Jacksonville, FL > I'd rather be scoring? Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 3 18:56:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:50:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:46:20 -0500 Message-ID: <199902040146.UAA01970@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 2/3/99 7:09 PM PDRUSS@aol.com PDRUSS@aol.com >We need bumper stickers. But what should they say? > >"I'd rather be......" > >what? > > >"I'd rather be glassing" ? >"I'd rether be staining" ? >"I'd rather be leading" ? >"I'd rather be slumping" ? Glassing takes my vote. Staining could be misread! Leading could be read as leading, as in not following. Slumping could sound like you're tired. Glassing covers it all! Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 3 20:07:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:03:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mediaone.net!bdudack From: "Brian Dudack" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:03:02 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb3.1532.0> Precedence: bulk How about I'd rather be scoring Cathie -----Original Message----- From: PDRUSS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 7:43 PM Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass >In a message dated 2/2/99 3:29:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, >seaspray@mail.island.net writes: > ><< .waiting hours in a > parking lot with bored individuals in a ferry lineup could lead to > orders...never thought about that...but what about possible vandalism during > the 2 hour ferry ride? >> > > > > >We need bumper stickers. But what should they say? > >"I'd rather be......" > >what? > > >"I'd rather be glassing" ? >"I'd rether be staining" ? >"I'd rather be leading" ? >"I'd rather be slumping" ? > >any ideas? > > >Dianne >Jacksonville, FL > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 3 20:35:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:07:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: infinet.com!glasscat From: Carolyn Noel To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG-advice for Northerners Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 22:03:04 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb3.1734.0> References: <<1999Feb3.171940.0>> Organization: The Stained Glass Place Precedence: bulk That "recycled" air will do it every time! Definitely bad for your health. Carolyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 00:12:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:48:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass Date: Wed Feb 3 21:47:27 1999 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.192527.0> Precedence: bulk of course my sick mind comes up with "i'll play with your glass if you'll play with mine" -----Original Message----- From: Carol Swann To: glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 9:40 PM Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass >>In a message dated 2/2/99 3:29:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, >>seaspray@mail.island.net writes: >> >><< .waiting hours in a >> parking lot with bored individuals in a ferry lineup could lead to >> orders...never thought about that...but what about possible vandalism during >> the 2 hour ferry ride? >> >> >> >> >> >>We need bumper stickers. But what should they say? >> >>"I'd rather be......" >> >>what? >> >> >>"I'd rather be glassing" ? >>"I'd rether be staining" ? >>"I'd rather be leading" ? >>"I'd rather be slumping" ? >> >>any ideas? > >I'd rather be SCORING...of course!! > >C. > >Carol Swann >Synergy Glass & Creative >http://www.igga.org/synergy >seaspray@island.net > >check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: >http://come.to/The_E-Tour > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 07:57:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 07:13:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: PDRUSS@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 07:13:29 PST Message-ID: Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "Re: glass racks/transporting glass" on Feb 3, 19:09, PDRUSS@aol.com writes:] > > We need bumper stickers. But what should they say? > > "I'd rather be......" > > what? > > "I'd rather be glassing" ? > "I'd rether be staining" ? > "I'd rather be leading" ? > "I'd rather be slumping" ? Glassers know the "score" -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 08:21:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 07:48:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: bdudack@mediaone.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 06:47:59 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb4.114759.0> Precedence: bulk Cathi, My favorite is scoring also. However, unless you wish to attract men who are just interested in having sex with you, I think that scoring (by itself) would not express your true interest. "I'd rather be scoring (glass)" or "I'd rather be scoring glass" would be much safer. Unless you want to hear honking and wonder what the commotion is about when you pass trucks and cars on the highway!!! Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 08:38:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 07:50:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bumper Sticker... Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 07:15:09 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.2159.0> Precedence: bulk How about....Get Glassed! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 08:51:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 07:52:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!sally4th From: "Carol Sulik" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: gold patina? Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:42:47 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.44247.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BE5022.B8B607C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am trying to help out a glass shop to make a repair on an angel that = was brought in. A piece of glass from the the angel's skirt broke when = the angel fell after the suction cup failed. The angel looks like it has = been soldered with gold solder.....or patinaed in a bright gold. Do any = of you have any idea how this was accomplished? They have checked out = all of their supply catalogs and can't seem to locate anything that = would work for the repair. I would appreciate any suggestions I could = forward to them. Thanks ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BE5022.B8B607C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am trying to help out a glass shop = to make a=20 repair on an angel that was brought in. A piece of glass from the the = angel's=20 skirt broke when the angel fell after the suction cup failed. The angel = looks=20 like it has been soldered with gold solder.....or patinaed in a bright = gold. Do=20 any of you have any idea how this was accomplished? They have checked = out all of=20 their supply catalogs and can't seem to locate anything that would work = for the=20 repair. I would appreciate any suggestions I could forward to them.=20 Thanks
 
------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BE5022.B8B607C0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 09:14:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 07:54:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bumper Stickers Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:03:40 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb3.18340.0> Precedence: bulk I'd rather be scoring ..... than snoring! Uh ....Oh here we go again. LOL We need bumper stickers. But what should they say? > > "I'd rather be......" > > what? > > > "I'd rather be glassing" ? > "I'd rether be staining" ? > "I'd rather be leading" ? > "I'd rather be slumping" ? > > any ideas? > > > Dianne > Jacksonville, FL > I'd rather be scoring? Tulsa Suzanne Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 09:21:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 07:55:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bumper Stickers and The E tour Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:08:33 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb3.18833.0> Precedence: bulk How about having the stickers made and selling them to the list members to help finance that Brit Chick's tour? (seriously) Or maybe a lemonade stand? (not so serious) Or maybe we could put on a show Darlene? (even less serious) This is my brain on bacon grease sandwiches. Got to get some sleep . z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 09:25:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:13:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Glenna Rand Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 10:16:11 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.41611.0> References: <> Precedence: bulk > > "I'd rather be......" > > > > what? > > > > "I'd rather be glassing" ? > > "I'd rether be staining" ? > > "I'd rather be leading" ? > > "I'd rather be slumping" ? > > Glassers know the "score" > Good one, Glenna! Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 09:51:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:20:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: rather be scoring Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:18:44 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.61844.0> References: <<199902040146.UAA01970@uz.ComCAT.COM>> Precedence: bulk Not "clear" enough unless you are displaying glass. Glass workers would rather be scoring Old stained glass workers never die, they just keep on scoring (Is silly season here yet?) Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 09:52:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:49:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!MD6868 From: MD6868@aol.com To: barbaraelmore@yahoo.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: cutting zinc Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:43:56 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb4.164356.0> Precedence: bulk Hi, I'm reading this after being away for a few days, and knoowing this group, you've probably got 20 reply already, but just in case, here goes! I've recently done several all zinc channel windows, and did cut all of the came with a hacksaw (now have elec. came saw on order, however!!) I used a wooden miter box, which I clamped (tightly) to the bench, added some wooden stock to bring the came up to cutting range, and (I think this is the key to avoiding collapse) used two strong spring scissors type clamps , each places on one side of the cut to be made, which clamping holds the came tightly against the cutting stop of the miter box, thereby eliminating any chance of "wiggle". I found that I got good cuts, (some minor filing needed). At best, however, the hand method is very frustrating, so I bit the bullet and got the came saw.!! Richard Glassics Artglass Valencia, Ca. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 10:00:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:51:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: sssnet.com!classi From: "Karen F." To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: NG: Bumper Sticker thoughts Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:24:58 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.32458.0> Precedence: bulk Just humor me. My friends do when I get on one of these "rolls". "Life is a multicolored Pane." "Life is a Pane in the Glass" "I look at life thru multicolored glasses" "If the pieces fit.....solder them!" OK. I have that out of my system so now I'll go to work. Thanks for the therapy this morning fellow Bungians. Regards, Karen F. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 10:23:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:55:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: artmetal@wugate.wustl.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: FWIW-for what it's worth- Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:48:50 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.64850.0> References: <<3.0.32.19990204095311.00a8ed48@mtn.org>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk I wrote for some equipment catalogs, now I'm deluged with stuff!!! But this is a good possibility for metal or glass blasting. Northern Equipment & Supply. Burnsville,MN (for shipping info) 1/800-556-7885 http://www.northern-online.com just now tried the link, it is slow. Have no contact with this company or info on doing business with it, but the generators, pressure washers, blasting cabinets, and other industrial equipment looks pretty good, at least in price. Even some benders and machine shop stuff. Blasting cabinets caught my eye as the glass list has had some inquiry about blasting/etching glass. Disclaimer (;-) ) I have no experience with them just got a catalog in the mail. BTW, sent this to all 3 glass lists, in case you subscribe to more than one, that's why you got more than one copy. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations Lee Boe ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 10:26:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:28:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: bumper stickers Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:26:24 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <199902041727.LAA21129@relay.acns.nwu.edu> Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk snip snip The mind runs amok..... "I'd rather be scoring" is great, but not likely to be appreciated by the world at large....how about.....???? "Honk if you love stained glass" "If you seek beauty, work with stained glass" "Visualize....stained glass" "My windows can beat your windows" /\ _________________ / \ \ / / \ \ Stained Glass / / Beauty \ \ on / / on \ \ Board / / Board \ \ / /____________\ \_______/ "View the world through stained glass" As I was pondering, Glenna came up with "glassers know the score." Good'un. Or maybe "glassers know how to score." Ok, back to work.... Kaye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 10:28:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:42:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ipa.net!gecko From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: bumper stickers Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:46:08 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.5468.0> Precedence: bulk I thought this was a cute thread, but I had no plans of posting in reference to it... Unfortunately, it appears I'm doing just that. Glass Artists Do It in the SUNSHINE! There. Aren't you all ashamed of yourselves... FORCING me to embarrass myself with such a shameless post?! :-)) I'm heading back to lurkdom now. ...Hmmmm... with the lights on?... no, no... that's not right... ...do it with pliers?... no, I don't think the worlds ready for that one either.... ...with tiny strips of sticky, shiny, copper tape?... no, but it sounds like fun.... (careful, that stuff's sharp!) I'll keep working on it. Thank you for giving me something to occupy my deviant little mind! Blake :-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 10:55:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:44:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Restoration Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:42:29 PST Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Hi folks, Well I'm finally tackling my second lead experience. An old panel I received broken in cluster pieces. I figured out the pattern,..I think! All is going not too bad. Of course if I had a rubbing (which I found out too late) it would help. The piece is about 12 1/2" X 35" Although the original piece was larger, but some pieces couldn't be salvaged. I had to reduce the design somewhat. I plan on setting it into a wood frame after and returning it to my neighbors for their anniversary. They gave the glass to me to see if I could use any of it. Some other glass is very old. Early 1900's Their 50th is coming in May. I figure it would be the perfect present. Any tips from you leaders? -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 11:25:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:43:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet From: "Karen K." To: "Bungi List" , "Carol Sulik" Subject: Re: gold patina? Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:39:59 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.83959.0> Precedence: bulk Carol, Sounds like the angel was electro-plated with gold.. That's how the really bright silver and gold finishes are done.. If thats the case you could fix and have it plated again........I think.. Karen >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.. > >------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BE5022..B8B607C0 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >I am trying to help out a glass shop to make a repair on an angel that = >was brought in.. A piece of glass from the the angel's skirt broke when = >the angel fell after the suction cup failed.. The angel looks like it has = >been soldered with gold solder..........or patinaed in a bright gold.. Do any = >of you have any idea how this was accomplished? They have checked out = >all of their supply catalogs and can't seem to locate anything that = >would work for the repair.. I would appreciate any suggestions I could = >forward to them.. Thanks > > >------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BE5022..B8B607C0 >Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> ><HTML> ><HEAD> > ><META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = >http-equiv=3DContent-Type> ><META content=3D'"MSHTML 4..72..3612..1700"' name=3DGENERATOR> ></HEAD> ><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> ><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I am trying to help out a glass shop = >to make a=20 >repair on an angel that was brought in.. A piece of glass from the the = >angel's=20 >skirt broke when the angel fell after the suction cup failed.. The angel = >looks=20 >like it has been soldered with gold solder..........or patinaed in a bright = >gold.. Do=20 >any of you have any idea how this was accomplished? They have checked = >out all of=20 >their supply catalogs and can't seem to locate anything that would work = >for the=20 >repair.. I would appreciate any suggestions I could forward to them..=20 >Thanks</FONT></DIV> ><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML> > >------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BE5022..B8B607C0-- > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi..com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi..com >Archives available at http://www..bungi..com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 11:56:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:51:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: bumper stickers Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 12:53:37 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.65337.0> References: <<1999Feb4.5468.0>> Precedence: bulk .....or Glass artists keep the lights on glass artists score with the lights on...(tacky tacky tacky) real artists are a pane in the glass! (probably more acurate) ;o) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 12:18:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:57:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: not all Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:58:31 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.25831.0> Precedence: bulk I do it in DARKNESS! how about glass workers score more! glass workers love bits and pieces , Enjoy, H ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 12:23:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:01:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: gold patina? Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:59:51 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.95951.0> Precedence: bulk Sounds like it's been plated.... there's really no such thing as a gold patina. Even the brass patina available is nothing more than a weak coppe= r patina with some added chemicals. Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 12:51:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:02:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: glass bumper stickers Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:59:48 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.95948.0> Precedence: bulk How about: I'd rather be scoring than breaking up. Or for bad days... you have to be cracked to work in glass. Or here's Michael's contribution: Want to foil around? This could get ugly....;-) Best, Dani Greer = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 13:30:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:11:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: sunset.net!fullspec From: Kay Frith Allen To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Circle cutter Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 12:08:24 -0800 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990204120824.006cc1e8@pop3.sunset.net> Precedence: bulk Hi, I lost the instructions to my Fletcher small circle cutter and now I need to cut some 2 inch circles out of mirror. Will someone please tell me how to use it? Thanks a bunch. Kay ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 13:34:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:29:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw From: "Granny And PawPaw" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bumper Sticker Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:21:13 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.102113.0> Precedence: bulk Hows about...You bet your sweet glass... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 13:50:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:30:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet From: "Karen K." To: "Bungi List" Subject: RE: gold patina Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:30:43 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.103043.0> Precedence: bulk Carol, Sounds like the angel was electro-plated with gold. That's how the really bright silver and gold finishes are done. If thats the case you could fix and have it plated again....I think. Karen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 14:38:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:08:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: NG bumper stickers Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:05:52 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <199902042106.PAA16790@relay.acns.nwu.edu> Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk I was surfing bumper stickers to get an idea what they'd cost to print and came across quite a few preprinted ones. Many of them were offensive, but I particularly liked these: What if there were no hypothetical questions? I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing. Warning: dates in calendar are closer than they appear. Lottery: a tax on people who are bad with math. Always remember you're unique--just like everybody else. Kaye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 15:29:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:48:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Restoration/bumper stickers Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:46:48 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.114648.0> Precedence: bulk -------------Forwarded Message----------------- From: Dani Greer, = To: Glenna Rand, INTERNET:gjr@bungi.com = Date: 2/4/99 1:13 PM RE: Restoration/bumper stickers How about this one: Old glaziers never die... they just get re-leaded. Good luck with your project, Glenna... what a nice thing to do for your neighbors. You know, somebody really ought to think about printing bumper stickers. = And, how about some stained glass mousepads and screen saver programs? = There's an adjunct business-in-the-making here for some enthusiastic entrepeneur! Best, Dani ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 15:31:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:02:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: bumper stickers Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:59:46 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.55946.0> Precedence: bulk How about: GLASS IS CLASS Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Please note new address of: bobdu@prodigy.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 15:43:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:21:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ticnet.com!rjlcon From: "Jak N Wolfy" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Subscribe Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:25:28 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.102528.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE505A.FA071740 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please put me on the bungi list. Thanks,,,,,,,,,, Jaknwolfy ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE505A.FA071740 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Please=20 put me on the bungi list.
         &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;      =20 Thanks,,,,,,,,,,
 
         &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;   =20 Jaknwolfy
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE505A.FA071740-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 15:53:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:31:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Kay Frith Allen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Circle cutter Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 17:30:12 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.123012.0> References: <<3.0.1.32.19990204120824.006cc1e8@pop3.sunset.net>> Precedence: bulk Kay Frith Allen wrote: > > Hi, > I lost the instructions to my Fletcher small circle cutter and now I need > to cut some 2 inch circles out of mirror. Will someone please tell me how > to use it? Thanks a bunch. > Kay > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass basically you first need to find the center of the cutter. i did it by eye, and made a mark on the board. then find your radius, and score.. that was for the lens cutter anyway. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 16:10:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:02:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!barbaraelmore From: barbara elmore To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: solder:Canfield vs Hirsh? Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:01:25 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1999Feb4.7125.0> Precedence: bulk Need opinions on solder. Have tried lots of bad brands lately, but really like Canfield. Have heard that Hirsh is equally as good. Tired of wasting my time and money on brands that aren't melting clean, have lots of fumes, lumpy beads, etc. Thanks! _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 16:35:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:47:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!swetinusa From: Jane Swetman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: 16" Mold for Lamp Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 16:44:34 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.104434.0> Precedence: bulk Has anyone tried making their own mold? Glass Patterns Quarterly has a lamp in an old ('94) issue that I want to make, and call for a 16" Odyssey shade (I guess a generic one). Odyssey don't make a 16" shade without a pattern, so I thought I'd try my hand at making one. I wondered if anyone has had any success with making their own. Also, I've also heard that there used to be a company in the Chicago that rented the Odyssey molds but they've gone out of business (Aurora?). Does anyone know of a place where they can be rented? Jane in S.W. Suburbs/Chicago'' ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 17:36:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:09:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mediaone.net!bdudack From: "Brian Dudack" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:09:45 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.12945.0> Precedence: bulk Yes your probably right and who needs all that attention anyway -----Original Message----- From: Yegnim@aol.com To: bdudack@mediaone.net ; glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, February 04, 1999 5:48 AM Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass >Cathi, >My favorite is scoring also. However, unless you wish to attract men who are >just interested in having sex with you, I think that scoring (by itself) would >not express your true interest. "I'd rather be scoring (glass)" or "I'd >rather be scoring glass" would be much safer. Unless you want to hear honking >and wonder what the commotion is about when you pass trucks and cars on the >highway!!! >Lenore > > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 17:42:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:14:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mediaone.net!bdudack From: "Brian Dudack" To: "Glenna Rand" , , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:14:33 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.121433.0> Precedence: bulk that's cute to -----Original Message----- From: Glenna Rand To: PDRUSS@aol.com ; glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, February 04, 1999 10:14 AM Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass >[In the message entitled "Re: glass racks/transporting glass" on Feb 3, 19:09, PDRUSS@aol.com writes:] > >> >> We need bumper stickers. But what should they say? >> >> "I'd rather be......" >> >> what? >> >> "I'd rather be glassing" ? >> "I'd rether be staining" ? >> "I'd rather be leading" ? >> "I'd rather be slumping" ? > >Glassers know the "score" > > >-- >Glenna Rand >gjr@bungi.com >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 18:01:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:14:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mediaone.net!bdudack From: "Brian Dudack" To: "Family Account" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: rather be scoring Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:15:59 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.121559.0> Precedence: bulk good one -----Original Message----- From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, February 04, 1999 12:09 PM Subject: rather be scoring >Not "clear" enough unless you are displaying glass. > >Glass workers would rather be scoring > >Old stained glass workers never die, they just keep on scoring > >(Is silly season here yet?) > >Dorothy > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 18:01:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:28:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: bumper stickers Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:27:03 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.15273.0> Precedence: bulk Here's another one: Real glass artists get the lead out. Compliments of my husband... you think he's trying to tell me something??= = Now, keep in mind, he doesn't use computers; I have a brand new one. Wha= t does that tell you? Best regards ;-) = Dani Greer Greer Gallery & STudios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 18:15:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:19:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mediaone.net!bdudack From: "Brian Dudack" To: "Bob E Duchesneau" , "Bungi" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: bumper stickers Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:19:39 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.121939.0> Precedence: bulk I think this one wins -----Original Message----- From: Bob E Duchesneau To: Bungi ; glass@intrastar.net Date: Thursday, February 04, 1999 5:39 PM Subject: Re: bumper stickers >How about: > >GLASS IS CLASS > >Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 >Please note new address of: bobdu@prodigy.net > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 18:19:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:24:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: barbara elmore Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: solder:Canfield vs Hirsh? Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 19:25:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.14258.0> References: <<1999Feb4.7125.0>> Precedence: bulk barbara elmore wrote: > > Need opinions on solder. Have tried lots of bad > brands lately, but really like Canfield. Have > heard that Hirsh is equally as good. > > Tired of wasting my time and money on brands that aren't melting > clean, have lots of fumes, lumpy > beads, etc. > > Thanks! > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass solder i use and like are canfield, willard, and i think there is one more. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 18:21:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:28:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: bumper stickers Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:26:50 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.152650.0> Precedence: bulk How about this one: Glass Lass with Class Inspired by Bob's last post. Best ;-) Dani ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 18:31:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:02:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!dro From: Daniel To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: bumper stickers Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 02:03:30 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.2330.0> References: <<199902041727.LAA21129@relay.acns.nwu.edu>> Precedence: bulk Oh.......you people are fantastic.... ..........if we are that creative with words...it's no wonder... the contest entries are special...:) Somebody remind me to vote...sigh... ......the PAIN.....oh the pain.... I Got Linux half installed on my laptop...and I'm revamping my linux/cum winnt/ cum win98.......box....I'm up to my ears in email.. I HAVE to get a project done before Saturday... I've got to bake bread tomorrow....and the cat needs a rabies shot... How do you people with kids do it?? A Chinese pug and siamese is too much for me... ============================================================= I can't say which bumper sticker I like the best... but THESE are the creme' de la creme' I think EVERYONE who entered the contest should be given their choice of bumper stickers....or...if you want... send me a blank shirt...and I'll print you up a nice shirt on my trusty bubble jet printer with the slogan of your choice....and the iron on jobbies....ahhhhhhhhh... the mind boggles...umm......bangles...er...bugles...(how do you spell bugle??)... Later... ====================================================== "Honk if you love stained glass" "Visualize....stained glass" "My windows can beat your windows" <<<< Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:20:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!SGriffiSBG From: SGriffiSBG@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Grinder and Bits Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:11:54 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb5.11154.0> Precedence: bulk Hi everyone :-) I am working on my 1st project (without an instructor) and have a couple of questions. The project is a suncatcher--bird/flowers --and I want to solder it to a brass ring (6 inches) How do I do that? Do I wrap copper around the ring and tin it or will the solder stick to the brass? How long does a grinder bit last? Is it OK to leave the water and coolant in the grinder for several days or do I have to clean it out every day? The second day I went into the shop there was a film covering the top of the water. Was that the coolant? Thanks for the help in advance Shirley G ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 19:40:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:42:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Jane Swetman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: 16" Mold for Lamp Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 21:40:41 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.164041.0> References: <<1999Feb4.104434.0>> Precedence: bulk Jane Swetman wrote: > > Has anyone tried making their own mold? Glass Patterns Quarterly has a > lamp in an old ('94) issue that I want to make, and call for a 16" > Odyssey shade (I guess a generic one). Odyssey don't make a 16" shade > without a pattern, so I thought I'd try my hand at making one. > > I wondered if anyone has had any success with making their own. > > Also, I've also heard that there used to be a company in the Chicago > that rented the Odyssey molds but they've gone out of business > (Aurora?). Does anyone know of a place where they can be rented? > > Jane in S.W. Suburbs/Chicago'' > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the pattern they used would be for that particular mold. making your own may not work with that pattern. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 20:07:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:45:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: bumper stickers Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:41:04 -0500 Message-ID: <199902050241.VAA00799@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 2/4/99 8:27 PM Dani Greer GreerStudios@compuserve.com >Here's another one: > >Real glass artists get the lead out. Or how about - Real glass artists lead their heart out??? Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 21:03:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:28:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!dro From: Daniel To: Dani Greer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: bumper stickers Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 04:20:54 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.42054.0> References: <<1999Feb4.152650.0>> Precedence: bulk Dani Greer wrote: > > How about this one: > > Glass Lass with Class > > Inspired by Bob's last post. > > Best ;-) > > Dani =========================================================== Yep...that made me stop and thunk fer a minute... And I've got something working with.... lead free gas.... nolead free glass... hmmmmmmmmmm...ouch I tickled myself... Daniel in Oregon -- Philosophy: A route of many roads leading from nowhere to nothing. -- Ambrose Bierce ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 21:41:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:42:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: Mosfunland@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: NG slogans..... Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:38:03 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb5.4383.0> Precedence: bulk heres a couple....you can pick your own category: "snaps under pressure" "on the cutting edge" "grinds with the best of 'em" "%$&#, foiled again!" and my personal favorite: drumroll please: "Leaded be" (John Lennon would approve....) Maureen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 22:05:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:22:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!SandyJoh From: "SandyJoh" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: bumper stickers Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:26:58 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.172658.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_019F_01BE5095.DBD87DA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think ya'll been sniffin' too much solder lately! (course, that's a = pre-req for joining this group, isn't it?!) OK - I'm enjoying the really bad humor you're coming up with ;-0 I think we all need to get a life! ------=_NextPart_000_019F_01BE5095.DBD87DA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think ya'll been sniffin' too much = solder=20 lately! (course, that's a pre-req for joining this group, isn't=20 it?!)
 
OK - I'm enjoying the really bad = humor you're=20 coming up with ;-0
 
I think we all need to get a = life!
 
------=_NextPart_000_019F_01BE5095.DBD87DA0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 22:35:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:53:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Mosfunland@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG slogans..... Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 23:57:09 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.17579.0> References: <<1999Feb5.4383.0>> Precedence: bulk Mosfunland@aol.com wrote: > > heres a couple....you can pick your own category: > > "snaps under pressure" > "on the cutting edge" > "grinds with the best of 'em" > "%$&#, foiled again!" > > and my personal favorite: > drumroll please: > "Leaded be" (John Lennon would approve....) > > Maureen YEA Maureen!!!! Good ones. Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 23:07:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:30:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: fullspec@sunset.net Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Circle cutter Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 01:27:14 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.202714.0> Precedence: bulk Kay, If you look closely at the side of the rod that holds the cutter turret, (the rod that the set screw locks onto) you'll see that it has measurements marked on it. Just set the size you want so that it lines up with the flat side of the setscrew housing and lock the turret in place. Test your size setting by putting a sheet of stiff paper into the cutter, press down on the handle and crank the handle around to score the paper. Measure to see if this is the correct size. If it is not, adjust it a bit and try again. Now put a dab of oil on the cutting turret to lubricate it and place your glass onto the cutting stage. Push the turret handle down lightly to see that you have lined the cutter up well to give a bit more than 1/4" of scrap all the way around your circle. In fact it is easiest if you cut the glass into squares first. For a 2" circle cut 2 1/2" or slightly larger squares. After you are sure that the glass is in the right place for scoring, push the turret handle down firmly and crank it around in one complete circle applying firm even pressure but not extreme pressure. Do not go around more than once. Remove the scored glass from the stage and use your pliers to "open" the score line all the way around. Make relief scores and break the circle out. For more detail on the breaking out and relief lines find the circle cutting tutorial on my web site at www.dodgestudio.com Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Thu, 04 Feb 1999 12:08:24 -0800 Kay Frith Allen writes: >Hi, >I lost the instructions to my Fletcher small circle cutter and now I >need >to cut some 2 inch circles out of mirror. Will someone please tell me >how >to use it? Thanks a bunch. >Kay > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 23:23:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:30:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: SGriffiSBG@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Grinder and Bits Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 01:17:38 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.201738.0> Precedence: bulk >Hi everyone :-) > >I am working on my 1st project (without an instructor) and have a >couple of >questions. The project is a suncatcher--bird/flowers --and I want to >solder >it to a brass ring (6 inches) How do I do that? Do I wrap copper >around the >ring and tin it or will the solder stick to the brass? Yes, Solder will just stick to the brass. If the brass is very thick and your iron is under powered you may have to heat the brass quite a while to get the solder to run, but otherwise there should be no complications. > >How long does a grinder bit last? This one depends a whole lot on how much you grind AND ON WHAT BRAND YOU'RE USING. A Glastar bit lasts at least six months to a year here in the studio and they are used by the students too. Another factor is how patient you are. Grinder bits rarely die a catastrophic death. They just work slower and slower until your patience wears out. Don't forget that you can slide the head up or down to expose new grinding surfaces. >Is it OK to leave the water and coolant in the grinder for several >days or do >I have to clean it out every day? The second day I went into the shop >there >was a film covering the top of the water. Was that the coolant? The film is more likely oils from your hands and cutting oil residue, unknown substances from the surface of the glass, etc. Some people clean their grinders daily. We clean ours when the glass dust fills it to the point that we can't put water in anymore. This is not however the best way to prolong your head life and may increase your chances of being "attacked" by mold spores or other noxious buggies. > >Thanks for the help in advance > >Shirley G >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 23:31:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:39:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY From: JJKIRBY@aol.com To: BOBDU@prodigy.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: bumper stickers Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 01:37:14 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb5.63714.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/4/99 3:43:02 PM Pacific Standard Time, BOBDU@prodigy.net writes: << GLASS IS CLASS >> I like it. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 4 23:45:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:42:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: Mosfunland@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG slogans..... Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 01:35:36 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.203536.0> References: <<1999Feb5.4383.0>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk For the hot glass bunch- Torched. Mosfunland@aol.com wrote: > > heres a couple....you can pick your own category: > > "snaps under pressure" > "on the cutting edge" > "grinds with the best of 'em" > "%$&#, foiled again!" > > and my personal favorite: > drumroll please: > "Leaded be" (John Lennon would approve....) > > Maureen > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 01:02:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:38:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep From: "Brian Shepherd" To: "Jane Swetman" , "bungi" Subject: Re: 16" Mold for Lamp Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 07:29:43 -0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.72943.0> Precedence: bulk Hello Jane You're brave! Should be interesting! I know someone who said he would turn wooden molds for me but I haven't taken him up on it. LCT used wood. The first table lamp I made I used the glass bowl from the front of an old washing machine - working inside with found beach glass. Not fun with different thicknesses, curves and it kept skidding around! I did it inside to keep the external surface level. Many lessons there. A precious lamp now - it lives on my wifes bedside table. We found the glass together walking on lots of beaches. I have made shades using Odessy molds and made the pattern up as I went along. I just ignored the existing incised markings. You need to be careful that you don't evolve differences as you progress around otherwise it will show when you meet up. So I found that it was best to start at the top and work evenly down rather than just around. Good luck and I'd love to know how you make out! BtB >Has anyone tried making their own mold? Glass Patterns Quarterly has a >lamp in an old ('94) issue that I want to make, and call for a 16" >Odyssey shade (I guess a generic one). Odyssey don't make a 16" shade >without a pattern, so I thought I'd try my hand at making one. > >I wondered if anyone has had any success with making their own. > >Also, I've also heard that there used to be a company in the Chicago >that rented the Odyssey molds but they've gone out of business >(Aurora?). Does anyone know of a place where they can be rented? > > > >Jane in S.W. Suburbs/Chicago'' ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 01:22:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 00:00:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel Abedi" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Bumper Sticker... Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:02:59 +0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.18259.0> Precedence: bulk >How about....Get Glassed! or .... Glassified >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 01:32:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 00:01:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel Abedi" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Bumper Sticker Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:10:30 +0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.181030.0> Precedence: bulk >Hows about...You bet your sweet glass... or ...... A Glass of It's Own >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 02:34:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 01:48:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ictc.com!bankers From: "Dale Bentley" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: bumper stickers Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 03:48:55 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb4.214855.0> Precedence: bulk Bumpersnickers! I love it. Okay it's late... and I should be in bed, but I guess the need for public humiliation is even stronger.... I am sure I will regret this tomorrow! But, here goes..... How about? "Get your Glass in Gear!" "Lead, Foil, or get out of the way!" "My other car is a Kiln" "Don't laugh, I spend my $$$ on Glass." "Aw flux, foiled again!" "To bead, or not to bead" (Shakespeare) "Keep your glass to the grindstone" "Oh, Frit...blasted again!" "Use Came, or Foil, Then Solder" (Caesar said it best! I came, I saw.. well you know) "Working my Glass Off!" (has a double meaning) "You have got to be fidding?" (Now I am killing myself!!! LOL) "Grozing in the Glass" song - (Grazing in the grass) "Got Glass?" (and we could all have little glass moustaches) "Super cooled liquid manipulator" (okay, a little on the egghead side) "Heart of Glass" (Blondie's back you know?) Gee, I wonder if anyone is collecting all these moments of shear genius! Oh, good.... now I have that out of my system! Dale Bentley ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 04:00:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 03:16:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'SandyJoh'" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: NG HTLM jibberish Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 06:16:44 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.11644.0> Precedence: bulk Sandy, Your messages are getting to me in Htlm format. Anyone else recieving them this way? You can go to your preferences and choose to send them as something other that htlm and all the jibberish won't dome across. Thanks, Linda -----Original Message----- From: SandyJoh [SMTP:SandyJoh@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 12:27 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: bumper stickers This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_019F_01BE5095.DBD87DA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think ya'll been sniffin' too much solder lately! (course, that's a = pre-req for joining this group, isn't it?!) OK - I'm enjoying the really bad humor you're coming up with ;-0 I think we all need to get a life! ------=_NextPart_000_019F_01BE5095.DBD87DA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think ya'll been sniffin' too much = solder=20 lately! (course, that's a pre-req for joining this group, isn't=20 it?!)
 
OK - I'm enjoying the really bad = humor you're=20 coming up with ;-0
 
I think we all need to get a = life!
 
------=_NextPart_000_019F_01BE5095.DBD87DA0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 04:32:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 04:06:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: citynet.net!khupp From: Kathy To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Weller address Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 07:06:30 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.2630.0> Precedence: bulk Does anybody have an e-mail, or snail mail address for Weller? I was bragging on my iron a while back and broke it yesterday, getting the tip out. I'd like to send it in for repair. I must have broken the heat connections or something. Regardless, the thing won't heat. So far, I can't find them on the Web, just places selling them. Thanks!! Kathy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 05:30:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:00:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netaxs.com!maruca From: maruca@netaxs.com To: Linda Campbell Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: NG HTLM jibberish Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 07:57:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1999Feb5.25716.0> References: <<1999Feb5.11644.0>> Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Linda Campbell wrote: > > Your messages are getting to me in Htlm format. Anyone else recieving them > this way? You can go to your preferences and choose to send them as > something other that htlm and all the jibberish won't dome across. > > Thanks, > > Linda > Linda is right! In memory of Bob the Dinosaur, who beat on this drum loudly and often, let us all post in PLAIN TEXT! thx m ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 05:41:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:01:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'Kathy'" , "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Weller address Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:03:19 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.3319.0> Precedence: bulk Weller is Cooper Weller Tools: Cooper Hand Tools, Div. of CooperIndustries 3535 Glenwood Ave. Raleigh, NC 27612 USA Tel: 919-781-7200 Product Description: Tools, Torches, Chains, Soldering Iron Stands, Chain Assemblies. I sent in a 100W a year or tow ago and they told me they don't repair them (or at least what ever it was wrong with mine- I think is was one of those little electronic gismos). They did give me a really good deal on a new one. I forget, I think I paid $54 for a $79 iron. Turns out they sent me two and being the honest person that I am, I offered to pay for the second or they could have someone pick it up. They let me have it for the same price as the first. I was pleased with their customer support even tho they wouldn't repair the iron. Linda Campbell Kathy said Does anybody have an e-mail, or snail mail address for Weller? I was bragging on my iron a while back and broke it yesterday, getting the tip out. I'd like to send it in for repair. I must have broken the heat connections or something. Regardless, the thing won't heat. So far, I can't find them on the Web, just places selling them. Thanks!! Kathy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 05:51:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:03:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: yeah for J Lennon Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:04:16 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.3416.0> Precedence: bulk I like....Leaded be! Get the lead out! To score or not to score! All are really worth a chuckle.... and a round of applause and mainly, I think we all need a "Break". We gotta get some sleep or something...... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 06:00:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:21:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: NG slogans..... Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:18:40 -0500 Message-ID: <199902051319.IAA19394@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 2/4/99 11:38 PM Mosfunland@aol.com Mosfunland@aol.com > >and my personal favorite: >drumroll please: >"Leaded be" (John Lennon would approve....) > >Maureen I really like your personal fav, Maureen! Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 06:15:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:24:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Luanne6556 From: Luanne6556@aol.com To: khupp@citynet.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Weller address Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:23:41 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb5.132341.0> Precedence: bulk WELLER SNAIL MAIL ADDRESS: Weller Division of Cooper Industries 815 State Road Cheraw, S.C. 29520 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 06:30:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:26:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'Kathy'" , "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Weller address PS Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:28:15 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.32815.0> Precedence: bulk PS. http://www.coopertools.com/index.html For the Tim the Toolman folks out there, the site has lots on line art clipart of tools. Maybe you'd like to incorporate some into your stained glass panel or perhaps you needed a pic of horseshoe nails for your on line catalog. This place has got the pics in pdf format. Linda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 06:32:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:33:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: bumper stickers Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:31:34 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb5.133134.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/4/99 1:27:20 PM, kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU wrote: >"Honk if you love stained glass" > >"If you seek beauty, work with stained glass" > >"Visualize....stained glass" > >"My windows can beat your windows" Ever since my first stint working for Christie, when I got attacked by some Very Mean Nasty Splintery Red Cathedral, I keep threatening to have some T- shirts made up saying (in red letters, of course!): GIVE BLOOD become a stained-glass artist Sparks, type B+ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 07:02:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 06:32:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: SGriffiSBG@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Grinder and Bits Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 09:31:36 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.43136.0> References: <<1999Feb5.11154.0>> Precedence: bulk SGriffiSBG@aol.com wrote: > > Hi everyone :-) > > I am working on my 1st project (without an instructor) and have a couple of > questions. The project is a suncatcher--bird/flowers --and I want to solder > it to a brass ring (6 inches) How do I do that? Do I wrap copper around the > ring and tin it or will the solder stick to the brass? > > How long does a grinder bit last? > > Is it OK to leave the water and coolant in the grinder for several days or do > I have to clean it out every day? The second day I went into the shop there > was a film covering the top of the water. Was that the coolant? > > Thanks for the help in advance > > Shirley G > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the solder will alaways stick to other solder, copper, and brass. but steel wool the brass first. a grinder bit should last for a pretty long time, as long as you don't abuse it. keep water in it (enough so that when you turn it on some water swishes out. (out as in above the surface around th bit , and not overflowing from the grinder). i use my bit's alot, and it still takes about a year of constant use for me to want to replace the bit. the water can be left in, forever. except maybe for the twin spin grinder, the disc tends to rust. the scum is most likely coolant, glass dust, and plain dust. nothing to worry about. every so often you should clean the grinder though. ---Mike Savad Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 07:21:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 06:33:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!HiimLaura From: HiimLaura@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: First Stepping Stone need advice Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:30:22 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb5.143022.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all! I feel I am ready to make my first stepping stone and am not sure which method to use. I have seen that they can be made by pouring the wet concrete over the glass that has been placed in the mold or by using a finished stone and applying the glass in a mosaic fashion : which do you prefer? What types of molds are best and how about concrete and colors? I'd be greatful for any advice on the matter. I am getting quite excited to make my first stone, but figured I had better check with all the experts before I begin to avoid any unnecessary disasters! Thanks! Laura P PS - Here's my bumpersticker input: "Glass Artists Say No to Crack!" ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 07:30:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 06:35:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: hotmail.com!glassinmd From: "Jeanne K" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Bevel Max Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 06:28:13 PST Message-ID: <1999Feb5.142813.0> Precedence: bulk Has anyone tried the bevel max for the repair of straight line bevels. I have about 10 to re-bevel one side on and was wondering if this was worth the money (does it work or not) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 07:46:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 06:39:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Kathy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Weller address Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 09:38:41 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.43841.0> References: <<1999Feb5.2630.0>> Precedence: bulk Kathy wrote: > > Does anybody have an e-mail, or snail mail address for Weller? I was > bragging on my iron a while back and broke it yesterday, getting the tip > out. I'd like to send it in for repair. I must have broken the heat > connections or something. Regardless, the thing won't heat. So far, I > can't find them on the Web, just places selling them. > > Thanks!! > > Kathy > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass if i'm not mistaken i think cooper tools owns weller and you have to contact them. i think it's just cooperstools.com or coopers-tools.com or something like that. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 08:03:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 07:27:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: questions from Shirley G Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:25:12 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.52512.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Shirley G: >The project is a suncatcher--bird/flowers --and I want to solder it to a brass ring (6 inches) How do I do that? Do I wrap copper around= the ring and tin it or will the solder stick to the brass?> You can solder directly to the brass ring. But you will need to heat up the brass ring first, as it is a larger heat sink than your copper-foil suncatcher's solder lines. So place your soldering iron on the brass ring at the point where you want the suncatcher attached, and crank it up to high. Make sure to flux the point on the brass ring. When the solder flows onto the ring, then solder the suncatcher to it. Depends on the manufacturer of the bit, and how much you use it. The only way to tell is when you notice a significant increase in the time it takes you to grind, then it's time to change bits. Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 07:47:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: HiimLaura@aol.com, glass Subject: Re: First Stepping Stone need advice Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 07:45:16 PST Message-ID: Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "First Stepping Stone need advice" on Feb 5, 9:30, HiimLaura@aol.com writes:] > I feel I am ready to make my first stepping stone and am not sure which method > to use. I have seen that they can be made by pouring the wet concrete over the > glass that has been placed in the mold or by using a finished stone and > applying the glass in a mosaic fashion : which do you prefer? > > What types of molds are best and how about concrete and colors? I'd be > greatful for any advice on the matter. I am getting quite excited to make my > first stone, but figured I had better check with all the experts before I > begin to avoid any unnecessary disasters! > I have made serval stepping stones using diamondcrete and a mold that had glass laid in it. I have had quite good results. -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 08:51:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 07:50:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!SKDJ From: SKDJ@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: marking glass Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:49:19 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb5.154919.0> Precedence: bulk Hi. I just purchased a glass saw. I have found out that marking with a permanent Sharpee doesn't work, the water washes it off of the glass. Any suggestions? Thanks. Sherry ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 09:01:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 07:53:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: HiimLaura@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: First Stepping Stone need advice Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 09:56:41 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.35641.0> References: <<1999Feb5.143022.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi Laura. I'm not an expert, but I make really pretty stones. I learned the concrete part from a decorative concrete guy. I use white portland cement, *very* fine light clean sand, and industrial blast sand. White portland cost about $14 a bag as opposed to $5 for gray...but the difference in finished product is well worth the extra money. I buy my sand from my decorative concrete guy. The sand I find at home depot, Lowes etc.... is nasty in comparison. Makes a big difference in the stone. I use a pretty wet mix, opposite of what most sg people will tell you... my finished stones look more like marble than concrete though...so it depends on the look you want. I also add stealth fiber to my concrete, as recommended by my concrete guy. I use a professional mold release called 880, dont know the manufacturer, but I am sure with a few phone calls you could find some...it is wonderful stuff and it also does a great job cleaning and *seasoning your molds. (kind of like a cast iron skillet) I would be happy to show you some pics of my stones. Also, if you are interested, more detailed directions of how I do it. Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 09:31:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:59:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: detroit.freenet.org!ae479 From: ae479@detroit.freenet.org (Sue Becker) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: prairie lamps Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:57:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <199902051657.LAA10030@detroit.freenet.org> Precedence: bulk Appreciate the input on vase caps and spiders. Using the spider was an idea one of the group came up with and thought I would run it by you. We plan to reinforce the top and bottom with wire. Guess we will stick to vase caps for these small lamps. I personally prefer the spiders for larger hanging lamps and appreciate the tip re lining up the cap and spider with a dowel. Thanks to all. Reply-To: ae479@detroit.freenet.org ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 09:49:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:00:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: Dale Bentley Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: bumper stickers Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 08:40:34 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.04034.0> References: <<1999Feb4.214855.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk from my non glass working husband: "stained glass, the first cut is the deepest" ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 10:36:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:12:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: SKDJ@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: marking glass Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 11:15:25 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.51525.0> References: <<1999Feb5.154919.0>> Precedence: bulk SKDJ@aol.com wrote: > > Hi. I just purchased a glass saw. I have found out that marking with a > permanent Sharpee doesn't work, the water washes it off of the glass. Any > suggestions? Thanks. Sherry I just rub a very small amount of vaseline over my lines. Same on the grinder. Although, I dont need to with iridized glass or some reason. I mark on darker glass, and glasses with alot happening in them like youghiogheny with a white pen called PM-41 Brite-Mark White, made by Mark-Tex Corp. in Englewood, NJ. It makes a much more distinct line, much easier to see. AND, it doesnt wash off easily. Comes off easy when I was scrub it off with a green scrubby, but you dont have to scrub hard. I think my eyes are aging, and gonna need some glasses soon for the first time in my life! BTW, did you know being 40 suddenly explains everything to a Dr? Starting me drive me crazy! ;o) They say, "how old are you again?" I say 40...they say.. "AAAAhhhhh that explains it!" Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 11:02:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:52:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: bumper stickers Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 08:56:45 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.05645.0> References: <<1999Feb4.55946.0>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk How about Foiled again!! Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 11:06:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:30:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ucdavis.edu!krmcdonald From: "Kathe R. Mc Donald" To: "'SKDJ@aol.com'" , "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: marking glass Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:24:46 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.32446.0> Organization: SOM - Office of Curricular Support Precedence: bulk Those gold marking pens work great--"Pilot Gold Marker". -----Original Message----- From: SKDJ@aol.com [SMTP:SKDJ@aol.com] Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 9:49 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: marking glass Hi. I just purchased a glass saw. I have found out that marking with a permanent Sharpee doesn't work, the water washes it off of the glass. Any suggestions? Thanks. Sherry ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 13:04:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:39:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: Brian Dudack Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:37:34 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1999Feb5.13734.0> References: <<1999Feb3.1532.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi Cathie: You get my vote! Peggy On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Brian Dudack wrote: > How about > > I'd rather be scoring > > Cathie > -----Original Message----- > From: PDRUSS@aol.com > To: glass@bungi.com > Date: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 7:43 PM > Subject: Re: glass racks/transporting glass > > > >In a message dated 2/2/99 3:29:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, > >seaspray@mail.island.net writes: > > > ><< .waiting hours in a > > parking lot with bored individuals in a ferry lineup could lead to > > orders...never thought about that...but what about possible vandalism > during > > the 2 hour ferry ride? >> > > > > > > > > > >We need bumper stickers. But what should they say? > > > >"I'd rather be......" > > > >what? > > > > > >"I'd rather be glassing" ? > >"I'd rether be staining" ? > >"I'd rather be leading" ? > >"I'd rather be slumping" ? > > > >any ideas? > > > > > >Dianne > >Jacksonville, FL > > > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 13:05:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:21:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: SKDJ@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: marking glass Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 13:14:32 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.81432.0> References: <<1999Feb5.154919.0>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Chap stick!! Or any non-scented lipbalm. Draw your lines, then go over the lines with the full width chapstick. The lines will not 'float' off in the saw, and then it washes off easy with dishwashing liquid. Cheaper than the commercial stuff for this, can't remember what its called. Lee Boe SKDJ@aol.com wrote: > > Hi. I just purchased a glass saw. I have found out that marking with a > permanent Sharpee doesn't work, the water washes it off of the glass. Any > suggestions? Thanks. Sherry > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 13:07:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:58:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!tifstyorig From: Diane W Manchester To: HiimLaura@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: First Stepping Stone need advice Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:27:23 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.72723.0> Precedence: bulk Our very own Daniel German (sp?) has a great new site up called "nGlass" and there is an article from Pamela on doing stepping stones using the mosaic method. It's very informative and will give you the steps and a materials list. Go to the following page to check it out and scroll down to "Stained Glass Stepping Stones". http://aries27.uwaterloo.ca/nglass/index.html Have fun! Diane Manchester Tiffany Styled Originals Carthage, NC ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 13:28:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:59:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Elizabeth Arakelian Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: bumper stickers Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 12:03:17 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.6317.0> References: <<1999Feb6.04034.0>> Precedence: bulk > from my non glass working husband: > > "stained glass, the first cut is the deepest" > ---- Ain't that the truth...then we *try* to be more careful! ;o) Sounds like he has helped stop the bleeding! Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 13:30:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:35:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: NG slogans..... Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:23:12 +0000 Message-ID: <199902051834.SAA02085@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk How about spomething from the Good Book.....? ..... and leaded be Light. And God saw of was good. ........ Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Maureen wrote: and my personal favorite: drumroll please: "Leaded be" (John Lennon would approve....) ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 13:37:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:19:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: questions from Shirley G Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:17:06 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb5.19176.0> Precedence: bulk A coupla daze ago, Shirley G's enquiring mind wanted to know: >Is it OK to leave the water and coolant in the grinder for several days >or do I have to clean it out every day? You can leave the water in the grinder, but several of our fellow bungians can tell you that it's a very good idea to remove the grinder bit after every use, so it doesn't get stuck on the shaft due to corrosion. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 13:37:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:18:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: solder:Canfield vs Hirsh? Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:17:11 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb5.191711.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/4/99 8:13:51 PM, barbaraelmore@yahoo.com wrote: >Need opinions on solder. Have tried lots of bad >brands lately, but really like Canfield. Have >heard that Hirsh is equally as good. Never used Hirsh, but have used Canfield, it works fine. Mostly I use Fry. Haven't had any problems with it. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 13:57:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:34:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Dale Bentley" , Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: bumper stickers Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:32:37 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.93237.0> Precedence: bulk Tooooo good, Dale!! We oughta keep you up late more often! I can see Patrick already in a glass moustache to match his glass tutu! And thanks to Shakeel, I'm going to call my student hand-outs "Glassifed Information"! They'll love it. I, too, hope someone is keepi= ng track of all these gems. Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 13:57:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:36:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: bumper stickers Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:32:43 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.93243.0> Precedence: bulk Another good one, Sparks! Here's another one from Mike: Stained Glass Artists - a cut above the rest. And who said we needed a "break"... that really "cracked" me up! I hope somebody's keeping track of these bumpersnickers.... Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 14:07:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:50:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!SKDJ From: SKDJ@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Thanks Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:47:41 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb5.204741.0> Precedence: bulk Thank you all who answered my question about my lines washing off with the glass saw. I think the idea of rubbing chapstick over the line before cutting is the best. I really enjoy being on this list. I have learned a lot just in the short time I have been on it. Sherry ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 14:30:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:52:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Stepping stone info Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 14:54:31 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.85431.0> Precedence: bulk Wow...there is **alot** of interest in stepping stones. You guys really need to send in bios! ;o) There's a plug for ya Patrick!! I have seen lots of names I have never seen before. I am working on typing up some information offline. When I can get it finished I will post it on bungi instead of individual emails. Then if you want to email me privately with any questions, fine by me. Sorry for not emailing you each individually right now, but time to pick up my daughter from school, and my 2 yr old is building a castle currently with my canned goods. Hope those poor toes survive! Oh..we are also going to the Dollar store! My son says he needs more dollars! :o) I told him meeeeeee too! Hopefully I can post it before tonight. Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 14:38:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:02:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!barbaraelmore From: barbara elmore To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: demo Taurus II Saw? Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:01:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1999Feb5.5118.0> Precedence: bulk Live in Western North Carolina, and would like to demo the Taurus II saw before I buy. Does anyone know of any dealers in my area (even southern VA, northern SC, etc) that sell? Can't find Gemini Saw Co listing on web, or would call them and find out dealers. Thanks! _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 14:44:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:06:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: Kay Frith Allen Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Circle cutter Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:04:02 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1999Feb5.542.0> References: <<3.0.1.32.19990204120824.006cc1e8@pop3.sunset.net>> Precedence: bulk Kay: Your circle cutter should have a gauge showing the size of the circle...set your gauge to the desired diameter and check it using clear glass. Make your adjustments accordingly. Peggy On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Kay Frith Allen wrote: > Hi, > I lost the instructions to my Fletcher small circle cutter and now I need > to cut some 2 inch circles out of mirror. Will someone please tell me how > to use it? Thanks a bunch. > Kay > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 14:47:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:06:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: glass@intrastar.net Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: bumper stickers Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:04:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1999Feb5.5451.0> References: <<001401be5089$ae9b2f60$7b669cd1@default>> Precedence: bulk I change my vote to this. Peggy On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Bob E Duchesneau wrote: > How about: > > GLASS IS CLASS > > Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 > Please note new address of: bobdu@prodigy.net > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 15:14:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:44:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Lettering Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 16:43:11 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.114311.0> Precedence: bulk Had to come up with lettering for a project....I did up the lettering in Photoshop, saved as bitmap, used as background to make a pattern in Glass Eye, used Glass Eye to distort it slightly...make taller. It was quick. Of course, I have to finish the rest of the details, now. I suppose you could do some interesting distortions in Photoshop before saving, too.... Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 15:31:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:22:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Jeanne K Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Bevel Max Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 17:22:01 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.12221.0> References: <<1999Feb5.142813.0>> Precedence: bulk Jeanne K wrote: > > Has anyone tried the bevel max for the repair of straight line bevels. > I have about 10 to re-bevel one side on and was wondering if this was > worth the money (does it work or not) > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the wheel is only about 8" wide, so only small bevels can be made. i have it. the instructions stunk, my glass is badly scratched. the snad paper disks explode is you get the slightext nick on them (which is way to easy). and the felt tends to burn when you polish it. the new conical disks look like there a better quality (it's for inside curves). i'm kind of sorry i got mine... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 15:31:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:22:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Circle cutter Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:18:14 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb5.221814.0> Precedence: bulk Kay, I have an instruction sheet from the company who makes the circle cutter. If you want, I could copy it and snail mail it to you. If interested, send your snail mail address. Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 15:47:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:24:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: SKDJ@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: marking glass Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 17:23:06 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.12236.0> References: <<1999Feb5.154919.0>> Precedence: bulk SKDJ@aol.com wrote: > > Hi. I just purchased a glass saw. I have found out that marking with a > permanent Sharpee doesn't work, the water washes it off of the glass. Any > suggestions? Thanks. Sherry > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass paint marker. i think pilot gold works the best, if i'm not mistaken. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 15:56:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:28:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!PDRUSS From: PDRUSS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: NG slogans..... Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:21:09 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb5.22219.0> Precedence: bulk How about: Curses, Foiled again. Dianne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 16:03:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:50:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: fair.net!andor From: "Linda Letscher" To: "Suzanne" , Subject: Re: Stepping stone info Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:48:52 -0500 Message-ID: <199902052249.RAA05489@smtp.america.net> Precedence: bulk Suzanne, You are a good doobie. I know I have gotten some good pointers and the only, repeat only reason I even gave stepping stones a try was the talk about it here on this page. And you letting me bug the heck out of you with exact measurements. I think I have it down now. BTW, I am sifting both my very fine sand, and the Portland cement, just to catch anything that might ruin my otherwise perfect pour. he he he!! I am waiting for Santa to make either a real early or a little late delivery of a Taurus II so I can do some stones with lettering on them. I had a neighbor ask, are you going to put all these (there are 4 in a flower bed as you walk up to the front door you see them.) in your back yard? I said well no, really I am going to use them as samples to SELL stones. I seem to be trying to do everything at once, I have a angel that needs to be foiled and soldered, and a large window I want to start, stones that need to be poured, and I want to give making a frame a go. All the help I have received on this page, not to mention encouragement has given me continued enthusiasm. Linda JO -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, February 05, 1999 5:35 PM Subject: Stepping stone info >Wow...there is **alot** of interest in stepping stones. >You guys really need to send in bios! ;o) >There's a plug for ya Patrick!! I have seen lots of names I have never >seen before. > >I am working on typing up some information offline. When I can get it >finished I will post it on bungi instead of individual emails. Then if >you want to email me privately with any questions, fine by me. > >Sorry for not emailing you each individually right now, but time to pick >up my daughter from school, and my 2 yr old is building a castle >currently with my canned goods. Hope those poor toes survive! > >Oh..we are also going to the Dollar store! My son says he needs more >dollars! :o) I told him meeeeeee too! > >Hopefully I can post it before tonight. > >Tulsa Suzanne >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 16:22:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:50:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: barbara elmore Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: demo Taurus II Saw? Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 17:49:50 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.124950.0> References: <<1999Feb5.5118.0>> Precedence: bulk barbara elmore wrote: > > Live in Western North Carolina, and would like > to demo the Taurus II saw before I buy. Does anyone > know of any dealers in my area (even southern VA, > northern SC, etc) that sell? > > Can't find Gemini Saw Co listing on web, or would > call them and find out dealers. > > Thanks! > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass there address: http://www.geminisaw.com/ ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 16:31:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:51:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!MD6868 From: MD6868@aol.com To: suzy@ComCAT.COM, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: NG slogans..... Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:47:12 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb5.224712.0> Precedence: bulk Gets my vote as well! "Leaded Be" would seem to be understated, while at the same time, should serve to make that small part of the population that still thinks regularly,wonder just it means ! Bravo! Richard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 16:36:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:55:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!MD6868 From: MD6868@aol.com To: SKDJ@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: marking glass Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:52:07 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb5.22527.0> Precedence: bulk Hi, Paint pen, Red, White, or Dark, as the case may be, works well, and is pretty easy to remove. I also use this to number pieces, in a multi piece work Richard Glassics, Inc Valencia, Ca. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 16:48:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:02:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: MD6868@aol.com Subject: Re: cutting zinc Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 23:00:25 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.23025.0> References: <<1999Feb4.164356.0@?>> Precedence: bulk I still want to know.... Why, why do you need zinc came? Its lots of trouble, doesn't add any strength if the panel is framed or in an opening or other architectural setting, So why????????????? Steve In message <1999Feb4.164356.0@?>, MD6868@aol.com writes >Hi, > >I'm reading this after being away for a few days, and knoowing this group, >you've probably got 20 reply already, but just in case, here goes! > >I've recently done several all zinc channel windows, and did cut all of the >came with a hacksaw (now have elec. came saw on order, however!!) I used a >wooden miter box, which I clamped (tightly) to the bench, added some wooden >stock to bring the came up to cutting range, and (I think this is the key to >avoiding collapse) used two strong >spring scissors type clamps , each places on one side of the cut to be made, >which clamping holds the came tightly against the cutting stop of the miter >box, thereby eliminating any chance of "wiggle". I found that I got good cuts, >(some minor filing needed). At best, however, the hand method is very >frustrating, so I bit the bullet and got the came saw.!! > >Richard >Glassics Artglass >Valencia, Ca. >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 16:59:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:36:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Jane Swetman Subject: Re: 16" Mold for Lamp Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 23:19:07 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.23197.0> References: <<1999Feb4.104434.0@?>> Precedence: bulk Yes, I have made a lamp mould in the past of papier mache. Choose the shape and draw it out on a piece of hardboard or plywood. Cut out the shape, so you have a template to check the accuracy of your building process. Start with a support of some kind which will let air through, e.g. a strainer or colander. place it on a board with holes drilled to allow air circulation. Make up your papier mache solution (wallpaper paste and newspaper) Apply the strips of paper to the mould base and build it up, moving all around throughout the process. Leave to dry (2-3 weeks). Then you can pin you pieces to the mould (tacky wax is no good on this kind of mould) No real worries about igniting the mould when soldering, as there is quite a mass of material there. Alternatively, if you know a wood turner, get her/him to turn the shape in a solid. Heavy but indestructible (and expensive) Steve T In message <1999Feb4.104434.0@?>, Jane Swetman writes >Has anyone tried making their own mold? Glass Patterns Quarterly has a >lamp in an old ('94) issue that I want to make, and call for a 16" >Odyssey shade (I guess a generic one). Odyssey don't make a 16" shade >without a pattern, so I thought I'd try my hand at making one. > >I wondered if anyone has had any success with making their own. > >Also, I've also heard that there used to be a company in the Chicago >that rented the Odyssey molds but they've gone out of business >(Aurora?). Does anyone know of a place where they can be rented? > > > >Jane in S.W. Suburbs/Chicago'' >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 17:09:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:00:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: Witchdoc3@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: bumper stickers Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 12:11:36 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.41136.0> References: <<1999Feb5.133134.0@[207.126.97.2]>> Organization: SBWSA Precedence: bulk Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/4/99 1:27:20 PM, kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU wrote: > > >"Honk if you love stained glass" > > > >"If you seek beauty, work with stained glass" > > > >"Visualize....stained glass" > > > >"My windows can beat your windows" > > Ever since my first stint working for Christie, when I got attacked by some > Very Mean Nasty Splintery Red Cathedral, I keep threatening to have some T- > shirts made up saying (in red letters, of course!): > > GIVE BLOOD > become a stained-glass artist > > Sparks, type B+ > Sparks, This is my definite hands down favorite LOL. It's going on my car bumper. with your permission, of course. Carol T > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 17:32:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:32:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: fair.net!andor From: "Linda Letscher" To: "Family Account" , Subject: Re: Lettering Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:30:23 -0500 Message-ID: <199902060031.TAA15757@smtp.america.net> Precedence: bulk That is a good idea. I just happen to have Photo Shop and don't even use it. The Glass Eye is still waiting for me to learn it, but I will get to it eventually. Linda Jo -----Original Message----- From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, February 05, 1999 6:17 PM Subject: Lettering >Had to come up with lettering for a project....I did up the lettering in >Photoshop, saved as bitmap, used as background to make a pattern in >Glass Eye, used Glass Eye to distort it slightly...make taller. It was >quick. Of course, I have to finish the rest of the details, now. > >I suppose you could do some interesting distortions in Photoshop before >saving, too.... > >Dorothy > > > > > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 18:35:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:36:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mediaone.net!bdudack From: "Brian Dudack" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NG slogans..... Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:37:17 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.133717.0> Precedence: bulk that ones really good too -----Original Message----- From: PDRUSS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, February 05, 1999 6:02 PM Subject: Re: NG slogans..... >How about: > >Curses, Foiled again. > > >Dianne >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 18:42:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:39:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: head count for Elisabeth in Florida Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:37:44 -0800 Message-ID: <199902060137.RAA31627@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk Hi all We are investigating the possibility of having a 2 day leaded glass workshop with Elisabeth in Florida at the end of August as part of "the E-tour". We have tentative interest from a sponsor, but I would like to get a head count on the number of bungians that would be interested in attending. Please email me off line, direct to seaspray@island.net if you would like to attend a workshop in late August in Florida, location TBA. C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 18:58:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:19:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Stepping stone info Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 19:22:44 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.132244.0> Precedence: bulk Changed my mind. Although I was surprised at how many people are interested in making stones, if that is everyone, it isnt worth putting it on the list. I've learned, this time. Gonna keep it on my hard drive. So, if you are interested and havent already told me you want it, tell me and I will send to you. Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 19:00:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:20:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Bumper Stickers and The E tour Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 01:08:06 +0000 Message-ID: <199902060119.BAA08742@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk ....Even better, sell them to finance the ravenous appetite of a certain starving soul on 4 legs who lusts for Irish mutton.... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK (... not OF UK) Patrick wrote: How about having the stickers made and selling them to the list members to help finance that Brit Chick's tour? (seriously) ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 19:13:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:20:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: NG beef grease Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 01:08:06 +0000 Message-ID: <199902060119.BAA08736@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hi Shirley (et al), Yorkshire pudding is one of those horrible things that stick at the back of your palate and your tongue is forever worrying in a most unseemly manner to shift. Nah! Thanks, but not for me!! Mind you, the Swedes are renowned for knowing what to cook with a melange of left-overs. I do a mean dish of the Swedish variant of "Bubble and Squeak". Give me a couple of onions, some potatoes and a handful of anchovies and I'll serve you up an anchovie dish you've never tasted before!! What's even better.... Toby doesn't like it, so there is more for MEEEEE! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK (both suffering from food fantasies!!) Shirley B wrote: How come no one mentioned Yorkshire Pudding? Popovers baked in roast beef fat. My personal favorite from being raised by an English War Bride mother. Gotta say, after reading all these NG post, now I know why my mother is so fond of frying everything. Although I still suspect it was cause she was/is such a busy person, it was done to save time. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 19:37:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:21:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: wscc.edu!smankin From: Susan Mankin To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Stepping Stones Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 21:22:32 -0800 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990205212232.007bf5b0@wscc.edu> Precedence: bulk Hi, I am new to the list and fairly new to stained glass. I would like some info on how to successfully pour stepping stones, and is DiamondCrete the best thing to use, or is there something that works as well for less money? Thanks in advance. Susan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 20:38:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:34:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: email.msn.com!bird_cage From: "Doug Parrott" To: Subject: Fw: First Stepping Stone need advice Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:35:37 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.113537.0> Precedence: bulk Laura, Stepping stones are great fun and also can be a bit exasperating. For the past couple years I have been pouring my own cement instead of the ready made stones but now I am ready to start using the ready made stone and doing mosaic work with grout. Pam Burns-Tappan does great work with this. Check out her site she really has some good info. Shirley also does some fantastic work and she was a great help to me this past year as I tried to struggle through some stepping stone problems I was having. When I first started pouring my greatest problem was keeping the glass from floating to the top. Out of habit, I always soak my glass in rubbing alcohol for a few seconds to get off any oil then after all the glass is down and you have applied the contact paper be sure to burnish the contact paper onto the glass real good. You need to make sure you have good adhesion or else the pieces will float to the top. Also, don't forget to tap. I no longer tap on the side of the mold but on to the table that I am working at. I usually have at least three to four molds going at one time so I just tap away with the old hammer onto the picnic table that I use when I am pouring stones. Oh yes, don't forget to use some type of lubricant. There are so many different things you can use. Lately I have been using cooking oil spray and it works great. Also, try not to get the topping cement mixture too runny or you will have problems down the line with crumbling and weak stones. There's nothing worse than putting all that work into a stone and having it look beautiful and then it cracks and breaks in two. I've seen it happen when the cement is not strong enough and too much water is used. Oh yes, another thing, don't fret when the water rises to the top after you have poured your stone. This is a normal cement process and is necessary for the strength of the stone so say the cement experts I have talked with. The water will recede and the stone will look and be great. Well these are just a few little hints. Just don't give it gets easier each time. Cheryl Parrott The Glass Parrott -----Original Message----- From: HiimLaura@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, February 05, 1999 7:29 AM Subject: First Stepping Stone need advice > >Hi all! > >I feel I am ready to make my first stepping stone and am not sure which method >to use. I have seen that they can be made by pouring the wet concrete over the >glass that has been placed in the mold or by using a finished stone and >applying the glass in a mosaic fashion : which do you prefer? > >What types of molds are best and how about concrete and colors? I'd be >greatful for any advice on the matter. I am getting quite excited to make my >first stone, but figured I had better check with all the experts before I >begin to avoid any unnecessary disasters! > >Thanks! >Laura P > >PS - Here's my bumpersticker input: "Glass Artists Say No to Crack!" >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 21:33:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:31:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cros.net!soraya From: "Soraya" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Lettering Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 23:30:30 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.183030.0> Precedence: bulk Dorothy wrote.... >Had to come up with lettering for a project....I did up the lettering in >Photoshop, saved as bitmap, used as background to make a pattern in >Glass Eye, used Glass Eye to distort it slightly...make taller. It was >quick. Of course, I have to finish the rest of the details, now. > >I suppose you could do some interesting distortions in Photoshop before >saving, too.... I may be new to stained glass.....but I am not new to computers and graphics......so far I have designed all my original patterns on the computer. While I don't have the "glass eye" software (yet?)....I have gotten good results with using Paint Shop Pro, PhotoShop and Corel 8. My stained glass teacher is amazed that I am able to combine the two ..... he doesn't have a computer and never doesn't realized the potential.....he claims to have difficulties getting any of his students to do original work....he has difficulties getting me to do 'same as everybody else in class projects' !!! (I think he likes the challenge...I hate the damn daffodil!!) I haven't done any lettering in glass yet, but I am sure that designing on the 'puter is certainly the way to go for precision. Take Care, Soraya ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ Soraya may be reached at... soraya@cros.net ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ Soraya's web site "The Witches' Thicket" http://www.cros.net/soraya ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ "For Passionate People These Are Desperate Times, Desperate Measures Call For Passionate Crimes" --Michael Stanley ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 22:34:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:01:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Look out she's baaaaaack Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 23:58:36 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.175836.0> Precedence: bulk Uh oh... "E" is starting to feel better, I guess the medicines or kicking in. Welcome back Elisabeth. Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 5 23:34:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:23:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Lettering Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:21:18 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.142118.0> Precedence: bulk >>I haven't done any lettering in glass yet, but I am sure that designing on the 'puter is certainly the way to go for precision. Take Care, Soraya<< You might just go to http://www.americanbevel.com and download a free demo copy of Designer ll. It is a rather good program made with stained glass in mind. The demo will not save copies or print. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Please note new address of: bobdu@prodigy.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 00:34:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 23:49:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Susan Mankin Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Stepping Stones Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 01:53:36 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.195336.0> References: <<3.0.3.32.19990205212232.007bf5b0@wscc.edu>> Precedence: bulk > > Hi, I am new to the list and fairly new to stained glass. I would like some > info on how to successfully pour stepping stones, and is DiamondCrete the > best thing to use, or is there something that works as well for less money? > Thanks in advance. > Susan Hi Susan, In my opinion, if you only want to do one stone, you might as well go with diamondcrete, I have never used it, but seems about as easy as it gets. But I believe it costs you about $15 per stone just for the diamondcrete, yowza!! If you like the way stones look and think you might want to make *some*, there are *much* cheaper ways, that are just as pretty or more so. I am typing up the way *I do stones for people who have expressed an interest, I will be happy to send it to you as well. I had a very unexpected surprise visitor this evening that just left. Kinda changed my plans, so I havent finished. Probably have it to you tomorrow sometime. Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 01:34:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:15:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Romajoco@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: marking glass Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 02:19:29 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.201929.0> References: <<5ac94c15.36bb4976@aol.com>> Precedence: bulk > I haven't tried it with my Taurus ring saw yet....but it does not > come off when I use my grinder. > I have found that my glass gets much wetter on the grinder than on my saw. T Suz ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 01:57:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 01:07:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep From: "Brian Shepherd" To: "Soraya" , Subject: Re: Lettering Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 08:28:49 -0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.82849.0> Precedence: bulk Hello! I must say that I agree with you about dedicated software! I use Paintshop Pro exclusively and have not felt the need to move to Glass Eye. I know how to drive the programme I have and am loath to spend the time learning something else. I'm quite sure that dedicated software has plenty of neat features but my old pappy used to say -'If it aint broke don't fix it!' I don't know if I can be bothered to climb another learning curve! My poor old brain gets confused enough with all the clutter that's there already! I expect I will weaken in the end but a kiln is higher up the wish list! Enjoy your glass work! Regards BtB > >I may be new to stained glass.....but I am not new to computers and >graphics......so far I have designed all my original patterns on the >computer. While I don't have the "glass eye" software (yet?)....I have >gotten good results with using Paint Shop Pro, PhotoShop and Corel 8. !!) > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 02:41:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 02:05:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: ctombro@InfoAve.Net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: bumper stickers Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 04:59:38 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb6.95938.0> Precedence: bulk I am with you, Carol! Absolutely love Spark's slogan: GIVE BLOOD.....become a stained glass artist!!! However, also love Maureen's: Leaded Be. Can't decide between the 2 as they are both GREAT!!! Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 02:57:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 02:12:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: cutting zinc Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 05:11:08 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb6.10118.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Richard, Hope I can answer your question about using zinc on a project. I use zinc border especially when it is NOT going to be framed nor placed in an opening in a wall or door. Zinc border is much more economical than a wooden border. The zinc gives it a nice finished edge (IMO) along with sturdiness it needs for hanging up for a long period of time. Also, the zinc will not stretch over a period of time as the lead will. Please feel free to comment. Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 06:38:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 05:20:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netusa1.net!t6686 From: L Nelson To: Doug Parrott Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Fw: First Stepping Stone need advice Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 08:29:38 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.02938.0> References: <<1999Feb5.113537.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi, on the mosaic stone what do you do about the sides what keeps it from just being glass ( or is it) If you put glass on a all ready made stone how do you prep the stone?? and how do you keep glass in place??? Thanks Laura Doug Parrott wrote: > Laura, > > Stepping stones are great fun and also can be a bit exasperating. > > For the past couple years I have been pouring my own cement instead of the > ready made stones but now I am ready to start using the ready made stone and > doing mosaic work with grout. Pam Burns-Tappan does great work with this. > Check out her site she really has some good info. Shirley also does some > fantastic work and she was a great help to me this past year as I tried to > struggle through some stepping stone problems I was having. > > When I first started pouring my greatest problem was keeping the glass from > floating to the top. Out of habit, I always soak my glass in rubbing > alcohol for a few seconds to get off any oil then after all the glass is > down and you have applied the contact paper be sure to burnish the contact > paper onto the glass real good. You need to make sure you have good > adhesion or else the pieces will float to the top. Also, don't forget to > tap. I no longer tap on the side of the mold but on to the table that I > am working at. I usually have at least three to four molds going at one > time so I just tap away with the old hammer onto the picnic table that I use > when I am pouring stones. Oh yes, don't forget to use some type of > lubricant. There are so many different things you can use. Lately I have > been using cooking oil spray and it works great. Also, try not to get the > topping cement mixture too runny or you will have problems down the line > with crumbling and weak stones. There's nothing worse than putting all > that work into a stone and having it look beautiful and then it cracks and > breaks in two. I've seen it happen when the cement is not strong enough and > too much water is used. > > Oh yes, another thing, don't fret when the water rises to the top after > you have poured your stone. This is a normal cement process and is > necessary for the strength of the stone so say the cement experts I have > talked with. The water will recede and the stone will look and be great. > > Well these are just a few little hints. Just don't give it gets easier > each time. > > Cheryl Parrott > The Glass Parrott > -----Original Message----- > From: HiimLaura@aol.com > To: glass@bungi.com > Date: Friday, February 05, 1999 7:29 AM > Subject: First Stepping Stone need advice > > > > >Hi all! > > > >I feel I am ready to make my first stepping stone and am not sure which > method > >to use. I have seen that they can be made by pouring the wet concrete over > the > >glass that has been placed in the mold or by using a finished stone and > >applying the glass in a mosaic fashion : which do you prefer? > > > >What types of molds are best and how about concrete and colors? I'd be > >greatful for any advice on the matter. I am getting quite excited to make > my > >first stone, but figured I had better check with all the experts before I > >begin to avoid any unnecessary disasters! > > > >Thanks! > >Laura P > > > >PS - Here's my bumpersticker input: "Glass Artists Say No to Crack!" > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 07:37:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 07:01:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: attcanada.net!tuka From: "tuka" To: Subject: Re: bumper stickers Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 07:04:02 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb5.2342.0> Precedence: bulk For what it's worth, Leaded Be gets my vote. Shiela >I am with you, Carol! Absolutely love Spark's slogan: GIVE BLOOD.....become >a stained glass artist!!! However, also love Maureen's: Leaded Be. Can't >decide between the 2 as they are both GREAT!!! >Lenore >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 07:49:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 07:10:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: First Stepping Stone need advice Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:08:22 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.5822.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:HiimLaura@aol.com >I have seen that they can be made by pouring the wet concrete over the glass that has been placed in the mold or by using a finished stone and applying the glass in a mosaic fashion : which do you prefer? > I prefer to pour the concrete in the mold. Takes less time than applying to the outside of a stone. And you don't have to worry about sharp pieces of glass sticking out, since the mold-method guarantees that all surface area of the glass is on the same plane. Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 08:07:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: questions from Shirley G Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 08:11:02 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.0112.0> References: <<1999Feb5.52512.0>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk Are you sure it is a brass ring. If you are using a metal ring purchased at a craft store(for machrame or dreamcatchers), then they are not brass and are coated with somekind of plastic. You can spend hours melting it off. Or you can wrap it with copper foil, but I suggest just doing it at the attachment points. If you wrap the whole ring, it is very hard to get smooth. You can also, just use so much solder that it forms a blob around the ring at the attachment site and the solder will stick to itself. Hope that helped. Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 09:43:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 08:15:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "Daniel" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: bumper stickers Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:13:06 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.4136.0> Precedence: bulk Daniel, et al You missed one right in this post (I think) The Pane ........ ohhhhh the Pane. (with a stained glass window graphic) -----Original Message----- From: Daniel To: glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, February 04, 1999 8:46 PM Subject: Re: bumper stickers >Oh.......you people are fantastic.... > >..........if we are that creative with words...it's no wonder... > >the contest entries are special...:) > >Somebody remind me to vote...sigh... > >......the PAIN.....oh the pain.... > >I Got Linux half installed on my laptop...and I'm revamping my >linux/cum winnt/ cum win98.......box....I'm up to my ears in email.. >I HAVE to get a project done before Saturday... > >I've got to bake bread tomorrow....and the cat needs a rabies shot... > >How do you people with kids do it?? > >A Chinese pug and siamese is too much for me... > > > >============================================================= > > >I can't say which bumper sticker I like the best... > >but THESE are the creme' de la creme' > >I think EVERYONE who entered the contest should be given their choice >of bumper stickers....or...if you want... > >send me a blank shirt...and I'll print you up a nice shirt on my >trusty bubble jet printer with the slogan of your choice....and the >iron on jobbies....ahhhhhhhhh... > >the mind boggles...umm......bangles...er...bugles...(how do you spell >bugle??)... > > >Later... > > >====================================================== > > > >"Honk if you love stained glass" > >"Visualize....stained glass" > >"My windows can beat your windows" <<<< >Glass Artists Do It in the SUNSHINE! > >real artists are a pane in the glass! > >glass workers score more! > >I'd rather be scoring than breaking up.<<<<<<<<<<<<joke. > >Old glaziers never die... they just get re-leaded. > >(how about old glaziers never die...they just get rehung...:)..ahem...) > > > > > >Daniel in Oregon >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 09:51:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 08:22:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ameritech.net!garys From: "GARY SCHROEDER" To: "Toby" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NG beef grease Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:26:07 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.6267.0> Precedence: bulk snip I do a mean dish of the Swedish variant of >"Bubble and Squeak". >Give me a couple of onions, some potatoes and a handful of anchovies >and I'll serve you up an anchovie dish you've never tasted before!! >What's even better.... Toby doesn't like it, so there is more for >MEEEEE! > Smart Dog!! For myself, I take the yorkshire pudding amd A Thick slice of Prime Rib. Leave the anchovies on someone elses pizza. Gary Back to burned and nleeding fingers. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 09:56:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 08:50:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: First Stepping Stone need advice Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 08:55:32 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.05532.0> References: <> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk I pour my own. I prefer that. You have more control and it is less expensive. I have never used diamondcrete, but have seen the finninshed product and it looks very nice. First off. Concrete is a mix of cement, sand, gravel. You can buy pre-mix or ready mix(in my area right now)in 90lb bags for $2.79. 90lbs. will make 3 fouteen inch dia./2 inch thich stones. Pre-mix is notoriously chinzy with the cement. So it wouldn't hurt to reinforce it with some cement called Portland Type II & III. 48 oz. of it to a bag of cement is a pretty good mixture. If you use too much, then the top of your stone will act like clay and it is hard to smooth out. Also don't use chicken wire to reinforce your stone. First off; a piece of concrete that small, really does not need it. But I like to use a product called fiber mesh. You buy it at your local ready mix(where the cement trucks come from)retailer. It comes in 8-14 oz bags. It looks like thick dirty angel hair that you decorate at christmas with. It is 10 times stronger than chicken wire, and six times cheaper. One 14 oz bag will make 40 14"dia./2" deep stones. The cost is around $5 a bag and all you do it simply throw in a handful as you mix your concrete. I mix my concrete in a small plastic wheel barrow. I use a kids shovel(real wooden handle, metal shovel)to mix with. Try a small stone until you get the feel of working in concrete. Concrete is like cooking. The mixture should feel like molded cookie dough or breaded hamburger that you are going to make meatballs with. Like making pastry, a little water goes a long way. And like fudge. Never on a rainy day. Drying time depends on the weather. I live on the oregon coast and I bring mine in the house to dry. If you have them in 72degrees, 14" dia. will dry in 12 hours. Smaller ones, say, 8" dia. will dry in 9 hours. Or you can leave them for 3 days. But once you have taken them out, then put them on a couple of 2X4's so the air can get to all sides. Do not confuse dry with cure. Concrete does dry by evaporation but it is cured because of a chemical reaction. And that takes 30 days. So you really should not plant them for at least 30 days. When you do plant them. This is very important. Plant them on 1 1/2 inches of clean sand. You can't run down to the beach and get some sand. Concrete has been known to chemically react with the salt in the sand. Don't ask me what kind of reaction, I have only read that it can happen. You don't want any debris in your sand, because it can act like a fulcrum and break the stone over time. Best results would be to plant the stone flush with the ground. If you plant it correctly, you can drive on them. I would love to see someone do a driveway with these. And as for molds. Anything plastic will work. So go down to your local 2nd time around and look for tupperware. Loaf pans make great bricks. Cake pans are great 8" rounds. I use plastic potted plant drip catcher. The 16" dia. ones make perfect 14" dia. stones. The plastic is a little soft, so put it on a board that is large enough to support the concrete filled mold and still light enough for you to carry. Then carry the board not the filled mold. You can also make your own mold from wood. And if you want something unique, you can use plastic molds sold in kids beach toy kits, or cake or jello molds. Be sure you do this on a level surface. Someplace that is easy to clean up. Wear clothes you never plan to wear again. And protect your hands. And be prepared to get wet. Clean up will require a hose with a power nozzle. And I have never figured out how not to spray myself during this process! Concrete can cause burns. So if you get it on your skin wash it off immediatley. Your hands will tolerate it better than other parts of your body. I use cheap garden gloves, the ones that have the little plastic bumps on the palm side. And I wear latex gloves inside those. Concrete does not stick to plastic, if you clean up right away, your mold will never look like you have used it. And those bumpy gloves help get the concrete off. There is also a recipe called the 1-2-3 method. I believe it means one part cement to 2 parts sand to 3 parts water. But I would not swear to it. If you use sandblasting sand, you can get a very nice looking stone. But to me the other way is cheaper and the stone is under the ground so what difference does it make? Good Luck and if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. Shirley B > > > I feel I am ready to make my first stepping stone and am not sure which method > > to use. I have seen that they can be made by pouring the wet concrete over the > > glass that has been placed in the mold or by using a finished stone and > > applying the glass in a mosaic fashion : which do you prefer? > > > > What types of molds are best and how about concrete and colors? I'd be > > greatful for any advice on the matter. I am getting quite excited to make my > > first stone, but figured I had better check with all the experts before I > > begin to avoid any unnecessary disasters! > > > > I have made serval stepping stones using diamondcrete and a mold > that had glass laid in it. I have had quite good results. > > -- > Glenna Rand > gjr@bungi.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- x>"3 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 10:43:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 09:14:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Re: marking glass Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:12:57 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb6.171257.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/5/99 8:18:04 PM, MD6868@aol.com wrote: >Paint pen, Red, White, or Dark, as the case may be, works well, and is pretty >easy to remove. I kinda like yellow paint pen. I'd be a little concerned about covering the lines with chapstick though, that stuff is greasy and I wouldn't want my fingers to slip and maybe get into the saw....... Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 10:54:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 09:22:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "Toby" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Bumper Stickers and The E tour Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:19:49 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.51949.0> Precedence: bulk How about "The Brit Chick Rules"....... a feeble attempt at pacification. LOL -----Original Message----- From: Toby To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, February 05, 1999 9:11 PM Subject: Re: Bumper Stickers and The E tour >....Even better, sell them to finance the ravenous appetite of a >certain starving soul on 4 legs who lusts for Irish mutton.... >Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK (... not OF UK) > >Patrick wrote: > How about having the stickers made and selling them to the >list members to help finance that >Brit Chick's tour? (seriously) > >---- >As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" >North Lights Stained Glass - homepage >http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm >---- >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 11:04:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 09:56:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Daniel German's nGlass Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 09:59:50 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.15950.0> References: <<1999Feb5.72723.0>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk This is a great site. Thank you for telling us about it. Shirley B > > http://aries27.uwaterloo.ca/nglass/index.html > > Have fun! > > Diane Manchester > Tiffany Styled Originals > Carthage, NC ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 11:45:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:54:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Bumper stickers so far Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 10:58:30 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.25830.0> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk You bet your sweet glass... A Glass of It's Own Get Glassed! Glassified "I'd rather be scoring" Torched. "snaps under pressure" > "on the cutting edge" > "grinds with the best of 'em" > "%$&#, foiled again!" "Leaded be" ... and leaded be Light. And God saw it was good. Curses, Foiled again. "Glass Artists Say No to Crack!" Honk if you love stained glass" "If you seek beauty, work with stained glass" "Visualize....stained glass" My windows can beat your windows" /\ _________________ / \ \ / / \ \ Stained Glass / / Beauty \ \ on / / on \ \ Board / / Board \ \ / /____________\ \_______/ "View the world through stained glass" "glassers know the score." "glassers know how to score." "Get your Glass in Gear!" "Lead, Foil, or get out of the way!" "My other car is a Kiln" "Don't laugh, I spend my $$$ on Glass." "Aw flux, foiled again!" "To bead, or not to bead" (Shakespeare) "Keep your glass to the grindstone" "Oh, Frit...blasted again!" "Use Came, or Foil, Then Solder" (Caesar said it best! I came, I saw.. well you know) "Working my Glass Off!" (has a double meaning) "You have got to be fidding?" (Now I am killing myself!!! LOL) "Grozing in the Glass" song - (Grazing in the grass) "Got Glass?" (and we could all have little glass moustaches) "Super cooled liquid manipulator" (okay, a little on the egghead side) "Heart of Glass" (Blondie's back you know?) GIVE BLOOD become a stained-glass artist Stained Glass Artists - a cut above the rest. The Pane ........ ohhhhh the Pane. "Life is a multicolored Pane." "Life is a Pane in the Glass" "I look at life thru multicolored glasses" "If the pieces fit.....solder them!" ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 12:02:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:28:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: I have a bee in my bonnet. Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 10:33:25 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.23325.0> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk I have been toying with this idea. My kids when they were little, loved the hidden picture books. I saw a panel(done by Robert Oddy, I am pretty sure)that the outline of an animal was in the solder lines, but not in the design. Kind of like, do you see the vase or two profiles. Anyway. Wissmach puts out a lot of glass that looks pretty dull til you get a bright light shinning through it. And my idea is: To make a large suncatcher(12" dia.)that looks like one thing and then when a bright light shines through it and only then, you can see other things in the panel. My first thought is a jungle scene, that only show vegitation until a bright light hits it and then you see the jaguar sleeping on the tree branch and the monkey swinging on the vine etc. My question is. Has anyone already done this(and I can't believe no one ever has) and is there a site on the web to see it? Thanks in advance. Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 12:10:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:10:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Beveler4 From: Beveler4@aol.com To: glassinmd@hotmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Bevel Max Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 14:08:14 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb6.19814.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Jeanne, To answer your question , in my opinion the bevel max might be OK if you were going to do a lot of cut-offs (a stock bevel with the end cut off to make it fit a specific window size). I have found that they take a lot of practice to master and from what I understand the replacement wheels for the polishing stage of the operation don't last long. But if you were going to do a lot of cut-offs it might be worth it, and then find a wheel set up for the polishing stage seperate from the Max. For ten bevels it is not hardly worth the trouble, find someone to do them for you it would be much cheaper in the end. Beveling isn't for everyone it takes a lot of patience and is very time consuming. Sorry that I didn't answer you sooner but my local server was down for a few days VERY Frustrating!!!!!! Beveler4(Stan) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 13:00:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:56:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: cutting zinc Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 14:52:51 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.95251.0> Precedence: bulk Lenore- Zinc is more rigid than lead, but not necessarily stronger... we avoid it= because it's known to fail much more quickly at the solder joints than le= ad over an extended period of time. On the rare occasions that we hang a piece without frame, we use a wider lead and just make sure that all the lead or solder points that abutt the border are soldered onto the border.= .. that keeps the border lead from pulling away from the window. If you kno= w you're going to frame this way to begin with, design the window so that y= ou have a couple of abutting joints that you can also affix hanging rings to= in the appropriate locations. And, of course, cement the window for strength. You should be able to do a 4 s.f. window this way without sagging problems easily. = Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 13:02:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:31:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Marking glass Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 13:29:33 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.72933.0> Precedence: bulk How about the old china markers? Those pencil things that we all loved to enjoy unwrapping when we were kids. They came in all colors and I am sure an office supply place would still carry them. Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 13:18:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:37:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Pat Kelly Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Bumper Stickers and The E tour Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 13:41:17 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.74117.0> References: <<1999Feb6.51949.0>> Precedence: bulk > How about "The Brit Chick Rules"....... a feeble attempt at pacification. > LOL > How about T shirts with "The Brit Chick Rules" and a pick of a cujoish Toby chasing a mad hatter Irishman in a pink glass tutu?????? Gosh, maybe I should quit trying to sell my glass, and just start making some of the things we've been talking about, and sell to you guys! ;o) Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 13:26:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:38:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Saturday Bios Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 13:36:47 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.73647.0> Precedence: bulk Sorry gang no one has sent me any bios to post. Just promises, promises, promises (and not just from the male gender either). That "Brit Viking Chick and Company" are preparing to set sail for Texas and gnaw on my gnomon again if ya'll (that's Texan) don't send some bios quick. BTW I forgot who requested all the past bios. Did I respond? Bacon Grease sandwiches have clogged my brain all week. Send request again and get out your bi-focals. Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 13:40:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:10:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "Shirley Balloch" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Bumper stickers so far Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 14:07:43 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.8743.0> Precedence: bulk Shirley, I am insulted you forgot mine .... I'd rather be scoring ..... than snoring! and it is soooooo unforgettable to. LOL -----Original Message----- From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Date: Saturday, February 06, 1999 1:59 PM Subject: Bumper stickers so far >You bet your sweet glass... >A Glass of It's Own >Get Glassed! >Glassified >"I'd rather be scoring" >Torched. > "snaps under pressure" >> "on the cutting edge" >> "grinds with the best of 'em" >> "%$&#, foiled again!" >"Leaded be" >... and leaded be Light. >And God saw it was good. >Curses, Foiled again. >"Glass Artists Say No to Crack!" > >Honk if you love stained glass" >"If you seek beauty, work with stained glass" >"Visualize....stained glass" >My windows can beat your windows" > /\ _________________ > / \ >\ / > / \ \ Stained Glass / > / Beauty \ \ on / > / on \ \ Board / > / Board \ \ / > /____________\ \_______/ >"View the world through stained glass" >"glassers know the score." > "glassers know how to score." > >"Get your Glass in Gear!" > >"Lead, Foil, or get out of the way!" > >"My other car is a Kiln" > >"Don't laugh, I spend my $$$ on Glass." > >"Aw flux, foiled again!" > >"To bead, or not to bead" (Shakespeare) > >"Keep your glass to the grindstone" > >"Oh, Frit...blasted again!" > >"Use Came, or Foil, Then Solder" (Caesar said it best! I came, I saw.. >well >you know) > >"Working my Glass Off!" (has a double meaning) > >"You have got to be fidding?" (Now I am killing myself!!! LOL) > >"Grozing in the Glass" song - (Grazing in the grass) > >"Got Glass?" (and we could all have little glass moustaches) > >"Super cooled liquid manipulator" (okay, a little on the egghead side) > >"Heart of Glass" (Blondie's back you know?) > > GIVE BLOOD > become a stained-glass artist >Stained Glass Artists - a cut above the rest. >The Pane ........ ohhhhh the Pane. >"Life is a multicolored Pane." > >"Life is a Pane in the Glass" > >"I look at life thru multicolored glasses" > >"If the pieces fit.....solder them!" >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 14:31:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:37:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: Pat Kelly Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Bumper stickers so far Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 12:41:19 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.44119.0> References: <<023c01be520c$5c440780$03ee18d0@708714093>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk So sorry, you must have sneaked it in on another post. Hey I meant to tell you. Was channel surfing the other night and stopped short when I saw these two guys in tutu and tiarra's. It was a show called the Bobcats big ass show. I kid you not. They had to dance and the audience decided the winner. Was one of them you, Patrick? Shirley B Pat Kelly wrote: > > Shirley, > > I am insulted you forgot mine .... > > I'd rather be scoring ..... than snoring! > > and it is soooooo unforgettable to. LOL > > -- x>"3 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 16:32:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:49:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Bumper stickers so far Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 14:46:17 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.84617.0> Precedence: bulk No it wasn't me on that tv show. I only perform live for the Russian Ball= et at the Metropolitan in New York, assorted personal friends and animals, a= nd my neighbors when they don't invite me to their Bar-B-Ques. I figure it spoils the appetite of their guests so much the next time they will invit= e me just to be safe. LOL -----Original Message----- From: Shirley Balloch To: Pat Kelly Cc: glass@bungi.com Date: Saturday, February 06, 1999 2:36 PM Subject: Re: Bumper stickers so far >So sorry, you must have sneaked it in on another post. >Hey I meant to tell you. Was channel surfing the other night and >stopped short when I saw these two guys in tutu and tiarra's. It was a >show called the Bobcats big ass show. I kid you not. They had to dance >and the audience decided the winner. >Was one of them you, Patrick? >Shirley B > >Pat Kelly wrote: >> >> Shirley, >> >> I am insulted you forgot mine .... >> >> I'd rather be scoring ..... than snoring! >> >> and it is soooooo unforgettable to. LOL > >> > > >-- >x=9F>"3=16=01=06=90=08 > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 16:50:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:55:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com, Shirley Balloch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Bumper stickers so far Revised Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 12:59:56 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.45956.0> References: <<1999Feb6.25830.0>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk > > You bet your sweet glass... > A Glass of It's Own > Get Glassed! > Glassified > "I'd rather be scoring" > Torched. > "snaps under pressure" > > "on the cutting edge" > > "grinds with the best of 'em" > > "%$&#, foiled again!" > "Leaded be" > ... and leaded be Light. > And God saw it was good. > Curses, Foiled again. > "Glass Artists Say No to Crack!" > > Honk if you love stained glass" > "If you seek beauty, work with stained glass" > "Visualize....stained glass" > My windows can beat your windows" > /\ _________________ > / \ > \ / > / \ \ Stained Glass / > / Beauty \ \ on / > / on \ \ Board / > / Board \ \ / > /____________\ \_______/ > "View the world through stained glass" > "glassers know the score." > "glassers know how to score." > > "Get your Glass in Gear!" > > "Lead, Foil, or get out of the way!" > > "My other car is a Kiln" > > "Don't laugh, I spend my $$$ on Glass." > > "Aw flux, foiled again!" > > "To bead, or not to bead" (Shakespeare) > > "Keep your glass to the grindstone" > > "Oh, Frit...blasted again!" > > "Use Came, or Foil, Then Solder" (Caesar said it best! I came, I saw.. > well > you know) > > "Working my Glass Off!" (has a double meaning) > > "You have got to be fidding?" (Now I am killing myself!!! LOL) > > "Grozing in the Glass" song - (Grazing in the grass) > > "Got Glass?" (and we could all have little glass moustaches) > > "Super cooled liquid manipulator" (okay, a little on the egghead side) > > "Heart of Glass" (Blondie's back you know?) > > GIVE BLOOD > become a stained-glass artist > Stained Glass Artists - a cut above the rest. > The Pane ........ ohhhhh the Pane. > "Life is a multicolored Pane." > > "Life is a Pane in the Glass" > > "I look at life thru multicolored glasses" > > "If the pieces fit.....solder them!" I'd rather be scoring ..... than snoring! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 16:53:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:58:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!MD6868 From: MD6868@aol.com To: s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: cutting zinc Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:56:07 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb6.20567.0> Precedence: bulk Steve, In the example I gave, I did two Frank Lloyd Wright "inspired" windows, which were approx 2' x 3', and for the sake of authenticity, all caming was zinc, as was the original design which "inspired" these two. In another window for a customer, which was of the same type, but a different design, lead came was used in the interior caming process, but the exterior, or frame, was zinc, as this panel was applied using clips, from the inside, over a double glazed aluminum double hung window, and wood framing wasn't appropriate. The zinc was used to give the piece exterior rigidity.I have read that Wright and similar designers specified Zinc, or Brass sometimes copper, for just that reason, lighter weight than lead, more rigidity. Richard Glassics Artglass Valencia, Ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 16:59:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 13:11:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Doug Parrott Subject: Re: Fw: First Stepping Stone need advice Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:59:56 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.205956.0> References: <<1999Feb5.113537.0@?>> Precedence: bulk I too am thinking of starting to make paving stones with mosaics. I've seen a certain amount of talk about the strength of the cement. But I have never seen anything about reinforcements. In the building industry they use a metal grid over which the cement is poured. Does anyone reinforce their stones with metal, wire, or anything else? Steve Parrott writes >Laura, > >Stepping stones are great fun and also can be a bit exasperating. > >For the past couple years I have been pouring my own cement instead of the >ready made stones but now I am ready to start using the ready made stone and >doing mosaic work with grout. Pam Burns-Tappan does great work with this. >Check out her site she really has some good info. Shirley also does some >fantastic work and she was a great help to me this past year as I tried to >struggle through some stepping stone problems I was having. > >When I first started pouring my greatest problem was keeping the glass from >floating to the top. Out of habit, I always soak my glass in rubbing >alcohol for a few seconds to get off any oil then after all the glass is >down and you have applied the contact paper be sure to burnish the contact >paper onto the glass real good. You need to make sure you have good >adhesion or else the pieces will float to the top. Also, don't forget to >tap. I no longer tap on the side of the mold but on to the table that I >am working at. I usually have at least three to four molds going at one >time so I just tap away with the old hammer onto the picnic table that I use >when I am pouring stones. Oh yes, don't forget to use some type of >lubricant. There are so many different things you can use. Lately I have >been using cooking oil spray and it works great. Also, try not to get the >topping cement mixture too runny or you will have problems down the line >with crumbling and weak stones. There's nothing worse than putting all >that work into a stone and having it look beautiful and then it cracks and >breaks in two. I've seen it happen when the cement is not strong enough and >too much water is used. > >Oh yes, another thing, don't fret when the water rises to the top after >you have poured your stone. This is a normal cement process and is >necessary for the strength of the stone so say the cement experts I have >talked with. The water will recede and the stone will look and be great. > >Well these are just a few little hints. Just don't give it gets easier >each time. > >Cheryl Parrott >The Glass Parrott >-----Original Message----- >From: HiimLaura@aol.com >To: glass@bungi.com >Date: Friday, February 05, 1999 7:29 AM >Subject: First Stepping Stone need advice > > >> >>Hi all! >> >>I feel I am ready to make my first stepping stone and am not sure which >method >>to use. I have seen that they can be made by pouring the wet concrete over >the >>glass that has been placed in the mold or by using a finished stone and >>applying the glass in a mosaic fashion : which do you prefer? >> >>What types of molds are best and how about concrete and colors? I'd be >>greatful for any advice on the matter. I am getting quite excited to make >my >>first stone, but figured I had better check with all the experts before I >>begin to avoid any unnecessary disasters! >> >>Thanks! >>Laura P >> >>PS - Here's my bumpersticker input: "Glass Artists Say No to Crack!" >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 17:05:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 13:11:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Toby Subject: Re: NG beef grease Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:37:16 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.203716.0> References: <<199902060119.BAA08736@saturn.nildram.co.uk>> Precedence: bulk But note everybody, the anchovies have to be fresh, not those salted, oiled, and generally awful stuff usually found in non coastal states. In message <199902060119.BAA08736@saturn.nildram.co.uk>, Toby writes >Hi Shirley (et al), >Yorkshire pudding is one of those horrible things that stick at the >back of your palate and your tongue is forever worrying in a most >unseemly manner to shift. >Nah! >Thanks, but not for me!! >Mind you, the Swedes are renowned for knowing what to cook with a >melange of left-overs. I do a mean dish of the Swedish variant of >"Bubble and Squeak". >Give me a couple of onions, some potatoes and a handful of anchovies >and I'll serve you up an anchovie dish you've never tasted before!! >What's even better.... Toby doesn't like it, so there is more for >MEEEEE! >Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK (both suffering from food fantasies!!) > > > >Shirley B wrote: >How come no one mentioned Yorkshire Pudding? Popovers baked in roast >beef fat. My personal favorite from being raised by an English War Bride >mother. >Gotta say, after reading all these NG post, now I know why my mother is >so fond of frying everything. Although I still suspect it was cause she >was/is such a busy person, it was done to save time. >---- >As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" >North Lights Stained Glass - homepage >http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm >---- >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 17:10:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 13:54:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Shirley Balloch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: I have a bee in my bonnet. Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 16:54:20 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.115420.0> References: <<1999Feb6.23325.0>> Precedence: bulk Shirley Balloch wrote: > > I have been toying with this idea. My kids when they were little, > loved the hidden picture books. I saw a panel(done by Robert Oddy, I am > pretty sure)that the outline of an animal was in the solder lines, but > not in the design. Kind of like, do you see the vase or two profiles. > Anyway. Wissmach puts out a lot of glass that looks pretty dull til you > get a bright light shinning through it. And my idea is: To make a > large suncatcher(12" dia.)that looks like one thing and then when a > bright light shines through it and only then, you can see other things > in the panel. My first thought is a jungle scene, that only show > vegitation until a bright light hits it and then you see the jaguar > sleeping on the tree branch and the monkey swinging on the vine etc. > My question is. Has anyone already done this(and I can't believe no one > ever has) and is there a site on the web to see it? > Thanks in advance. > Shirley B > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i think in one of the patterns quartely, they overlayed a darker glass on the back of a lighter glass, for a giraffe. it was a pretty good effect. i would probably try to find the glass before making the design. i personally have some kind of glass that have a few outlines of fish in it. someday i'll do something with it. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 17:18:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 14:34:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ticnet.com!rjlcon From: "Jak N Wolfy" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: cutting zinc Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 16:38:23 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.103823.0> Precedence: bulk Okay guys, I need some opinions here are you saying if you were making sidelights that measure 8 inches by 83 inches would you use a zinc frame around it or not? Jackie -----Original Message----- From: Yegnim@aol.com To: s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ; glass@bungi.com Date: Saturday, February 06, 1999 5:04 AM Subject: Re: cutting zinc >Hi Richard, >Hope I can answer your question about using zinc on a project. I use zinc >border especially when it is NOT going to be framed nor placed in an opening >in a wall or door. Zinc border is much more economical than a wooden border. >The zinc gives it a nice finished edge (IMO) along with sturdiness it needs >for hanging up for a long period of time. Also, the zinc will not stretch >over a period of time as the lead will. Please feel free to comment. >Lenore >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 17:19:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:22:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!PDRUSS From: PDRUSS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: sorry Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 18:16:49 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb6.231649.0> Precedence: bulk make that : "I'd rather be leading" Dianne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 17:52:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 16:23:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: balloch@netbridge.net Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: I have a bee in my bonnet. Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:13:39 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.141339.0> Precedence: bulk Shirley, While I never got around to it and probably never will, for years I saved up pieces (scraps) of glass that looked pure white on one side and colored on the other. The plan was to make a lamp that was all white until you turned it on. Gary Dodge On Sat, 06 Feb 1999 10:33:25 -0800 Shirley Balloch writes: >I have been toying with this idea. My kids when they were little, >loved the hidden picture books. I saw a panel(done by Robert Oddy, I >am >pretty sure)that the outline of an animal was in the solder lines, >but >not in the design. Kind of like, do you see the vase or two >profiles. >Anyway. Wissmach puts out a lot of glass that looks pretty dull til >you >get a bright light shinning through it. And my idea is: To make a >large suncatcher(12" dia.)that looks like one thing and then when a >bright light shines through it and only then, you can see other >things >in the panel. My first thought is a jungle scene, that only show >vegitation until a bright light hits it and then you see the jaguar >sleeping on the tree branch and the monkey swinging on the vine etc. >My question is. Has anyone already done this(and I can't believe no >one >ever has) and is there a site on the web to see it? >Thanks in advance. >Shirley B >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 18:05:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 16:25:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: er.uqam.ca!d326502 From: "Ron Scopelleti" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: help me please Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 18:17:04 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.13174.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BE51FC.E605C9A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Iam looking for a design and form of the Green Lutus Leaf ,the shade = is 25inches in diameter,tapers down to an small 2inch aperture,and, with = a height of 61/2,It resemblances a oriental hat, so sometimes referred = to as The Mandarin Shade. altogether there are more than 1300 pieces of = leaded glass in this shade .In the tiffany album,the lotus shade bears = the number 1524. =20 =20 thank you, if you can not help = please let me know anyway. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BE51FC.E605C9A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Iam  looking for a design and = form of=20 the  Green  Lutus Leaf ,the shade is 25inches in = diameter,tapers down=20 to an small 2inch aperture,and, with a height of 61/2,It resemblances a = oriental=20 hat, so sometimes referred to as The Mandarin Shade.  altogether = there are=20 more than 1300 pieces of leaded glass in this shade .In the tiffany = album,the=20 lotus shade bears the number=20 1524.           &n= bsp;           =20
          &nbs= p;=20
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =  =20 thank you, if you can not help please let me know=20 anyway.
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BE51FC.E605C9A0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 18:53:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 17:20:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Steve Richard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Fw: First Stepping Stone need advice Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 19:24:30 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.132430.0> References: <<1999Feb6.205956.0>> Precedence: bulk Steve the Concrete guy who is my teacher, says metal reinforcement isnt necessary. He uses something called stealth fiber, which I buy from him. It is a short white very fine fiber. I dont know what it is made from. He says that is all the reinforment needed. He says he drives a fork lift (without it cracking) over the same *recipe* that I use, so it should be strong enough to step on. That was good enough for me. It is the same as he uses in the decorative concrete business. He has been at it a long time. I take his word as gospel when it comes to concrete. Also, I read an article not too long ago written by an engineer, ( I wish I could remember where I read it) who states that the way people are reinforcing their stones is not effective for strengthening....he went on to explain why in mathematical and other technical ways that was too far over my head.... I have ended up too busy doing other things than I had planned, that I havent had the time to finish writting up the information about the way I do stones, and look for that article. I promise I will finish typing that up and also look for that article as soon as I can. Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 19:03:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 17:21:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: hotmail.com!agacic From: "Alex Gacic" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: To buy or not to buy that is the question Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 17:19:19 PST Message-ID: <1999Feb7.11919.0> Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, I've run across an interesting opportunity. A small glass and door company, actually a man and wife, are retiring and hitting the road in their RV. They live in Freeport, Florida which is about 60 miles east of Pensacola in the Florida panhandle. He wants to sell all his glass, supplies and equipment for a take all price of $10K. It appears he hasnt done much glass work in the past year or two. But it really seems he has quite alot of stuff. Most of the glass is Armstrong, some spectrum, and some art glass. He probably has about 400 to 500 full size sheets with maybe about 100 half size and smaller sheets (all colors). He has about 20 to 30 cases of various bevels and maybe about 20 or 30 bevel pattern sets (still shrink wrapped). He's got several boxes of copper foil, several gallons of glass polish, and black patina. He has several 300 watt irons, some sort of beveler contraption(its big anyway), a small band saw, an old grinder, 3 big and solid 4X8 tables. Maybe about 12 sidelite frames, some oak some mahogany. A whole bunch of window framing/trim, Some of that flexbile brick molding stuff. He also has something that drops molten glass in and then it spins. He does not want to break it up and really wants it out of there. He had one guy (not in the business) wanting to buy it, but didnt leave a deposit. I dont have the money or the room for all of it, It sure would be nice to have a glass cooperative, Maybe rent a truck to drop off everyone's goodies. With really not being the business, it seems like it could be a good deal, What do you guys think? Alex Gacic The ponderer ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 19:08:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 17:55:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ebtech.net!proffire From: "Doug Scale" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bumper Stickers slogans etc. Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:54:12 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.155412.0> Precedence: bulk This one may not work on bumpers but in your shops it gets the message across. If Stained Glass was cheap and easy, everybody would be doing it!! Doug Scale ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 20:52:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:19:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: I have a bee in my bonnet. Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 22:18:28 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.171828.0> References: <<1999Feb6.141339.0>> Precedence: bulk dodgestudio@juno.com wrote: > > Shirley, > > While I never got around to it and probably never will, for years I saved > up pieces (scraps) of glass that looked pure white on one side and > colored on the other. The plan was to make a lamp that was all white > until you turned it on. > > Gary Dodge > > On Sat, 06 Feb 1999 10:33:25 -0800 Shirley Balloch > writes: > >I have been toying with this idea. My kids when they were little, > >loved the hidden picture books. I saw a panel(done by Robert Oddy, I > >am > >pretty sure)that the outline of an animal was in the solder lines, > >but > >not in the design. Kind of like, do you see the vase or two > >profiles. > >Anyway. Wissmach puts out a lot of glass that looks pretty dull til > >you > >get a bright light shinning through it. And my idea is: To make a > >large suncatcher(12" dia.)that looks like one thing and then when a > >bright light shines through it and only then, you can see other > >things > >in the panel. My first thought is a jungle scene, that only show > >vegitation until a bright light hits it and then you see the jaguar > >sleeping on the tree branch and the monkey swinging on the vine etc. > >My question is. Has anyone already done this(and I can't believe no > >one > >ever has) and is there a site on the web to see it? > >Thanks in advance. > >Shirley B > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs > > http://www.dodgestudio.com > > ___________________________________________________________________ a simaler idea that i had a while ago was to make a white vase, with blue decorations on the inside. and that would be the lamp. i think i saw that on some ancient vase of shell or something like that. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 21:03:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:24:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Alex Gacic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: To buy or not to buy that is the question Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 22:24:27 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.172427.0> References: <<1999Feb7.11919.0>> Precedence: bulk Alex Gacic wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > I've run across an interesting opportunity. A small glass and door > company, actually a man and wife, are retiring and hitting the road in > their RV. They live in Freeport, Florida which is about 60 miles east > of Pensacola in the Florida panhandle. > > He wants to sell all his glass, supplies and equipment for a take all > price of $10K. > > It appears he hasnt done much glass work in the past year or two. But it > really seems he has quite alot of stuff. Most of the glass is > Armstrong, some spectrum, and some art glass. He probably has about 400 > to 500 full size sheets with maybe about 100 half size and smaller > sheets (all colors). He has about 20 to 30 cases of various bevels and > maybe about 20 or 30 bevel pattern sets (still shrink wrapped). He's > got several boxes of copper foil, several gallons of glass polish, and > black patina. He has several 300 watt irons, some sort of beveler > contraption(its big anyway), a small band saw, an old grinder, 3 big and > solid 4X8 tables. Maybe about 12 sidelite frames, some oak some > mahogany. A whole bunch of window framing/trim, Some of that flexbile > brick molding stuff. He also has something that drops molten glass in > and then it spins. > > He does not want to break it up and really wants it out of there. He > had one guy (not in the business) wanting to buy it, but didnt leave a > deposit. > > I dont have the money or the room for all of it, It sure would be nice > to have a glass cooperative, Maybe rent a truck to drop off everyone's > goodies. > > With really not being the business, it seems like it could be a good > deal, What do you guys think? > > Alex Gacic > The ponderer > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it's hard to say, certainly mouth watering. but a little pricey. i figure the beveler, the hot equipment is at least and tools probably come around to $7000 or so. the bevel sets how much are they about, say about 50 bucks a piece. and each sheet of glass at a simaler price. ideally it sounds pretty good, but you would have to move it. and store it. if i had the money and space, i would probably go for it. but i don't, wah... if anything you could re-sell some of the stuff, like the doors. and maybe get some of the money back. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 21:10:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 19:50:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: sprintmail.com!MollysGlass From: "Molly Keys" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: art fair jurying Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 21:46:08 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.15468.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE521A.1AF5DB60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I need a little help from everyone. I am the stained glass artist rep = for the Texas State Arts and Crafts Council. Besides myself there 11 = other jurors from other categories who will judge the slides for the = fair. The jurying process for stained glass really needs to be updated. = I thought coming to this group for suggestions might give me more = information to input into the process. The standard is already set as = far as slides go. The specifics are spelled out very plain and = applicants are tossed if they don't adhere to this first process. =20 So put your thinking caps on and think of how you would like shows to be = juried. What should the jurors be looking for? I look forward to your responses. Molly Keys By the way the meeting I have to present this to is February 17. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE521A.1AF5DB60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I need a little help from = everyone.  I am=20 the stained glass artist rep for the Texas State Arts and Crafts = Council.=20 Besides myself there 11 other jurors from other categories who will = judge the=20 slides for the fair.  The jurying process for stained glass really = needs to=20 be updated.  I thought coming to this group for suggestions might = give me=20 more information to input into the process.  The standard is = already set as=20 far as slides go.  The specifics are  spelled out very plain = and=20 applicants are tossed if they don't adhere to this first process. =20
 
So put your thinking caps on and = think of how=20 you would like shows to be juried.  What should the jurors be = looking=20 for?
 
I look forward to your = responses.
Molly Keys
 
By the way the meeting I have to = present this to=20 is February 17.
------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE521A.1AF5DB60-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 21:28:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:05:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Steven Ford Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Stepping Stones Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 22:08:16 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.16816.0> References: <<19990207035550390.AAA227@gossimer.nettally.com@sford>> Precedence: bulk Steven Got some bad news for you. If you dont already know you have the Happy99.exe attached to your emails. In fact, nothing showed in your email to me except the attached happy99 .exe file. I dont have the links to the fix it info but others at bungi have it. and I know it is in the archives not to far back. Someone want to post the links again to the directions for cleaning up the happy99 thing? Thanks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 22:55:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 21:23:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: help me please Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 21:21:37 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.132137.0> Precedence: bulk >>Iam looking for a design and form of the Green Lutus Leaf ,the shade = is 25inches in diameter,tapers down to an small 2inch aperture,and, with = a height of 61/2,It resemblances a oriental hat, so sometimes referred = to as The Mandarin Shade. altogether there are more than 1300 pieces of = leaded glass in this shade .In the tiffany album,the lotus shade bears = the number 1524. =20 =20 thank you, if you can not help = please let me know anyway. << I could find just what you want in my catalogs for Odyssey and Worden, the two big lamp form and pattern companinies. Worden has a pattern for a hanging lotus but it is in the lotus flower shape. Worden also has forms that would seem adaptable to the size shape you desire. My recommendation is that you get next to a Worden catalog and use your imagination. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Please note new address of: bobdu@prodigy.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 23:07:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 21:49:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: fair.net!andor From: "Linda Letscher" To: "bungi.com" Subject: Ska virus spreads via internet Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 00:46:16 -0500 Message-ID: <199902070547.AAA02975@smtp.america.net> Precedence: bulk Stephen, I am just posting this in regard to the Happy99 virus. I don't have your e-mail so I am just posting this to the board. It is instructions on how to remove it. Linda Jo http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/3652/SKA.HTM begin 666 Ska virus spreads via internet.url M6TEN=&5R;F5T4VAO Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 21:53:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!MISGLAS From: MISGLAS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE: Bumper stickers Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 00:51:53 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb7.55153.0> Precedence: bulk All the suggestions thus far are creative and some ae very clever, but "Leaded Be" tops them all, IMHO. Kathi from Wisconsin ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 6 23:59:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 23:04:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: email.msn.com!bird_cage From: "Doug Parrott" To: "bungi group" Subject: Fw: First Stepping Stone need advice Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 23:06:09 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.1569.0> Precedence: bulk Shirley, As usual your stepping stone info and advice is perfect. You were of great help to me last year when I struggled through some stepping stone problems. I am printing up your post so that I can have a hard copy for future reference. I completely understand why Pam Burns-Tappan calls you her stepping stone guru. Way to go Cheryl Parrott The Glass Parrott ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 01:08:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 23:41:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: celtic patterns Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 23:21:27 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb7.152127.0> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk Just got a book of celtic designs for glass. goody goody goody . Cant WAIT to finish The Clock from Hell so I can start one. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 04:21:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 02:49:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: UK Bead exhibition info Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 10:48:24 +0000 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990207104824.007a37b0@mailhost.stainedglass.co.uk> Precedence: bulk In case any UK beadmakers havent heard about the exhibition at Broadfield House Glass Museum here are the details weve just received. It runs from 16 January to 11 April 1999, open Tuesdays to Sundays 2 pm to 5 pm - free admission. Described on their leaflet as: The UKs first ever exhibition dedicated to glass beads and beadwork, bringing together work from Africa, Asia, the Americas and Europe. Explore the stunning variety of glass beads, in costume, jewellery and accessories, from ancient Roman times to UK artists working today. On the 20 March someone called Chris Watts (over from the USA) will be demonstrating cane-pulling and lampworking. Contact the Museum on 01384 812745 for a leaflet. Sounds well worth the trip to the West Midlands so we will try to get up there some time during the exhibition. Elizabeth Elizabeth Law Bournemouth Stained Glass 790 Wimborne Road Bournemouth Dorset BH9 2DX Tel : 01202 514734 Fax : 01202 250239 htp://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 04:51:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 03:46:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: email.msn.com!bird_cage From: "Doug Parrott" To: Subject: Re: Ska virus spreads via internet Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 03:47:43 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb6.194743.0> Precedence: bulk Linda, just wanted to say thanks again for sending the info this past week on how to get rid of that nasty virus. Now if you can just get rid of this virus in my head I will be really really really happy. I'm tired of blowing my nose every few minutes and my throat is killing me. Cheryl -----Original Message----- From: Linda Letscher To: bungi.com Date: Saturday, February 06, 1999 11:12 PM Subject: Ska virus spreads via internet >Stephen, >I am just posting this in regard to the Happy99 virus. I don't have your >e-mail so I am just posting this to the board. It is instructions on how to >remove it. >Linda Jo > >http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/3652/SKA.HTM > > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 08:25:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 07:12:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Molly Keys Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: art fair jurying Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 10:12:40 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb7.51240.0> References: <<1999Feb6.15468.0>> Precedence: bulk Molly Keys wrote: what are they looking for now? when the contest was in my area, (i wich they stil had it). they had different catagories: best 3-d best lamp best panel most original peoples choice and at the beggining best begginers project. but they stopped that do to the over whelming amount of book made suncatchers. each catagory had 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and honarable mention places. the original design had to be yours. you could enter a book design though. we simply brought the pieces in, i think it cost $5.00 for the first one and $3.00 for the others. panels i think could'nt me more then 3' x 3'. and 3-d could'nt cover an are larger then 2' i think. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 08:55:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 07:28:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Look out she's baaaaaack Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 15:16:21 +0000 Message-ID: <199902071527.PAA17541@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk The latest bulletin as stated by long-suffering friends: E is more argumentative and cantankerous, so she MUST be on the mend! ;-O) But where are the BIOS Patrick?? Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Uh oh... "E" is starting to feel better, I guess the medicines or kicking in. Welcome back Elisabeth. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 09:08:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 07:28:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: ENUF ALREADY! Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 15:16:21 +0000 Message-ID: <199902071527.PAA17550@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Aw Shucks, Kathe! Sorry about the mushrooms! They were out of season and the blue ink-caps from the wheatfield down the road had not yet made their appearance. Next time you must try my homebrew (about 9 gallons!!) In any case, it would be pretty boring if everybody were on their "best behaviour" ;-) My anchovy dish got rudely rejected by most; though it did lead to an offer of temporary employment as anchovy cook somewhere in Colorado where I had previously applied for a job as a factory cleaner ;-> I received my first American dinner date last summer. Provided it (i.e. the dinner - not the "date") wasn't cooked then, I'll probably survive to do another s.g. workshop. And I still don't know what a "Phillysteak" is, Ah well.... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Kathe McDonald (a Chartres veteran) wrote: Come on, folks, let's don't get Elisabeth riled up (English chick). I fear that these frequent illnesses she's had of late could be stress related.....what with these tales of how us Yanks eat. Don't worry Elisabeth...we'll all be on our good behavior and won't subject you to any culinary frights. We're all in for a treat....I've spent more than a few nights raising a glass with her and she's only better in person. I, for one,can't wait until she gets over here. I want to know, however, how come I didn't get the mushrooms with my breakfast???? ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 09:22:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 07:32:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Brass rings wasRe: questions from Shirley G Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 10:31:36 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb7.53136.0> References: <<1999Feb6.0112.0>> Precedence: bulk Shirley Balloch wrote: > Are you sure it is a brass ring. If you are using a metal ring > purchased at a craft store(for machrame or dreamcatchers), then they are > not brass and are coated with somekind of plastic. Not sure what kind of metal the ring is? Why not just wire the suncatcher onto the ring if you are sure you can solder it on. Flip the suncatcher over, lay the ring over it and mark wherever the ring crosses a solder line. Pick 3-4 of the surdiest points and solder a length of wire there. Clean up, then wrap the wire around the ring and tighten it. (Of course, if the whole thing fits inside the ring, this won't work...) Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 10:28:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:06:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: sprintmail.com!MollysGlass From: "Molly Keys" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: art fair jurying Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:06:20 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb7.5620.0> Precedence: bulk I think you misunderstood me. The jurying is for acceptance to the show. The awards part is not decided until all the booths are set up and then those are judged on originality, best display, and best of categories. Hope this helps. Molly -----Original Message----- From: M. Savad To: Molly Keys Cc: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, February 07, 1999 9:12 AM Subject: Re: art fair jurying >Molly Keys wrote: > > >what are they looking for now? > >when the contest was in my area, (i wich they stil had it). they had >different catagories: > >best 3-d >best lamp >best panel >most original >peoples choice > >and at the beggining best begginers project. but they stopped that do to >the over whelming amount of book made suncatchers. each catagory had >1st, 2nd, 3rd, and honarable mention places. > >the original design had to be yours. you could enter a book design >though. > >we simply brought the pieces in, i think it cost $5.00 for the first one >and $3.00 for the others. panels i think could'nt me more then 3' x 3'. >and 3-d could'nt cover an are larger then 2' i think. > >---Mike Savad > >-- >Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos >http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 >2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance >Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification >too and A Look at Sky City > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 11:27:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 10:05:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: fish and veggies, Elizabeth Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 10:04:29 -0800 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Sounds like the *Christmas* finnish dish: Herring...cooked potatoes and carrots, cooked beets and raw onions...all tied together with whipping cream! The palette (SP?) doesn't know what hit it:):) but it's rather colorful. If you ever get to BC, Canada, Elizabeth, I'm sure my mother inlaw would cook it up for you special! Cindy:) >Give me a couple of onions, some potatoes and a handful of anchovies >and I'll serve you up an anchovie dish you've never tasted before!! >What's even better.... Toby doesn't like it, so there is more for >MEEEEE! >Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK (both suffering from food fantasies!!) > > > >Shirley B wrote: >How come no one mentioned Yorkshire Pudding? Popovers baked in roast >beef fat. My personal favorite from being raised by an English War Bride >mother. >Gotta say, after reading all these NG post, now I know why my mother is >so fond of frying everything. Although I still suspect it was cause she >was/is such a busy person, it was done to save time. >---- >As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" >North Lights Stained Glass - homepage >http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm >---- >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 11:40:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 10:05:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: cutting zinc, now using zinc Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 10:04:49 -0800 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk I'm not impressed with zinc came for framing. I had done a *large* parrot window that sat in the house hanging for 4 - 5 years, then I sold it. Well much to my surprize, the zinc twisted in 2 corners. Kinda made me ill!!! So after that I decided zinc really needed to be framed in wood, and shouldn't be left on it's own just hanging (if there's any sort of weight to it). Cindy >I still want to know.... >Why, why do you need zinc came? >Its lots of trouble, doesn't add any strength if the panel is framed or >in an opening or other architectural setting, So why????????????? > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 11:57:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:54:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: cutting zinc Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:53:24 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb7.75324.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Jak N Wolfy" >Okay guys, I need some opinions here are you saying if you were making sidelights that measure 8 inches by 83 inches would you use a zinc frame around it or not?< Absolutely. And use Strong-Line or Re-strip internal reinforcement too. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 12:01:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:55:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: To buy or not to buy that is the question Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:53:27 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb7.75327.0> Precedence: bulk Just from your description of this guy having 400-500 full-sized sheets of Armstrong/Spectrum/Art glass there, and assuming "full-sized" means 8 square feet per sheet, you are looking at at least $20,000 worth of glass just in the full-sized sheets! And he's throwing in all the equipment too? For $10,000? What a deal! Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 12:16:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:55:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: art fair jurying Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:53:29 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb7.75329.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Molly Keys" >So put your thinking caps on and think of how you would like shows to be= =3D juried. What should the jurors be looking for?< Hi there Molly. I also am a juror for a Fine Arts & Crafts Festival. We= judge by slides also. Five slides representing the artist's style are required= . = We look for originality of style - i.e. not just the same old patterns anyon= e can purchase and build. Consistency of vision throughout the 5 slides. Technical ability (i.e. good soldering, good designs for the glass, glass= selection which is appropriate to the subject matter, etc.). Since this = is a fine arts festival, we are also interested in ideas which expand the medi= um in some way. New and interesting ways of using the glass. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 13:32:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:27:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: ENUF ALREADY! Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 15:24:22 -0500 Message-ID: <199902072024.PAA19268@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 2/7/99 10:16 AM Toby toby@northlights.co.uk >And I still don't know what a "Phillysteak" is, Ah well.... You can only get the real thing in Philly. People that move away have strong cravings for them. It's thin-sliced beef sauteed with onions, put into a long Italian roll usually with cheese over it (Philly cheesesteak). Good. PA Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 13:58:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:35:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: I have a bee in my bonnet. Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 12:40:10 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb7.44010.0> References: <<003201be521f$7ba187c0$af4f43ce@rjlcon>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk Well I haven't found the unicorn yet, but I did find Endangered Species by Juan Rodriguez at Foiled Again Stained Glass Studios in Monongahela, PA. Jak N Wolfy wrote: > > Shirley, go to http://www.spectrumglass.com On the first screen is an > index, choose gallery and then The Unicorn or I think that's the name of it. > It kind of reminds me of a Doolittle painting with the hidden things. I > think it's really good idea if you have the patience to design it. > > >I have been toying with this idea. My kids when they were little, > >loved the hidden picture books. I saw a panel(done by Robert Oddy, I am > >pretty sure)that the outline of an animal was in the solder lines, but > >not in the design. Kind of like, do you see the vase or two profiles. > >Anyway. Wissmach puts out a lot of glass that looks pretty dull til you > >get a bright light shinning through it. And my idea is: To make a > >large suncatcher(12" dia.)that looks like one thing and then when a > >bright light shines through it and only then, you can see other things > >in the panel. My first thought is a jungle scene, that only show > >vegitation until a bright light hits it and then you see the jaguar > >sleeping on the tree branch and the monkey swinging on the vine etc. > >My question is. Has anyone already done this(and I can't believe no one > >ever has) and is there a site on the web to see it? > >Thanks in advance. > >Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 17:30:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 14:38:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com, Molly Keys Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: art fair jurying Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 14:05:30 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb7.6530.0> References: <<1999Feb6.15468.0>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk First off to get to this group, you should submit in text not html. I do lots of craft shows. My first impression of your post, is that you make the artist jump through too many hoops and therefore have little regard for the artist/vendor. You want good artist? In this day and age, crafts and art work are not selling that well. A lot of artist and crafters have quit doing events, because it is not worth their while. With that said. Your attitude, would be the first reason not to get vendors for your show. Slides are a pain to submit. Accept both prints and slides. As long as you can see the product clearly, then it should not be a problem. Personally I like prints better. It is easier for an individual to weed out the competitors with prints. Look at your jury from the artist's point of view. Your artist is not going to want to present their product, if 3 other vendors are presenting the same stuff. You want a variety. As for workmanship, for small articles, like suncatchers, it really isn't that important. The customer usually likes the overall effect. Not the workmanship. And they are not educated to the difference. Plus poor workmanship is usually because the artist is new to the art, so allowing him into your show, will be helping an aspiring artist. If someone is selling large panels, over 18 square inches, then workmanship is very important, and I would want some sort of example and or voucher from satisfied customers. Glass can be done in: panels, suncatchers, boxes, free standing items like angels, lamps, clocks, pot stickers(designs on brass rods for your potted plants and gardens), mobiles, cubes(clear glass with sand and shells(etc.) in the cube),and the latest is stepping stones in various sizes, which has led to wrought iron tables and benches and sundials. I would suggest that the artist have several price ranges with their product. I would also suggest that you require a picture of their booth or a design plan of their booth. If you choose 3 different glass artist, who each sell something different, your customers will have a good variety and not be overwhelmed with glass products. And artist make a living at this. You need to have some sort of loyality to your artist. I personally think, that if they did well the first year and want to come back, that they get first acceptance to your show for the next 2 years, no questions asked. After the 3 year of presenting at your show, then they need to rejury. We vendors know what shows are good and know approx. how much we will make at a show. We face being rained or blown out. We face some other unknown event to ruin the event sales. We(the vendors) should at least be assured that for 2 years in a row we will be invited back! The majority of vendors are not Mom and Pop working at the kitchen table. They are professionals with thousands of dollars worth of equipment who work in their in home shops and take off on the weekend to see if they made any money. I am talking about crafters, I can not speak for artist, I only do craft shows. Thank you for asking. Shirley B Did I leave anything out group or did this come across too harsh? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 17:47:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 15:04:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: "Christie A. Wood" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: To buy or not to buy that is the question Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 15:04:31 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb7.7431.0> Precedence: bulk I got in late on this one and have deleted some of the prior posts...... 400 to 500 of spectrum and Armstrong should not be included as art glass. One can probably get some of that stuff for around $2.00 sq/ft and HAVE their choice of glass, I for one would want an inventory of the #'s. If you can only use half the price becomes double and then you have to "store" it. later, H ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 17:52:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 16:25:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Fw: First Stepping Stone need advice Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 18:45:16 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb7.234516.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/7/99 12:13:51 AM, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com wrote: >Steve the Concrete guy who is my teacher, says metal reinforcement isnt >necessary. He uses something called stealth fiber, which I buy from >him. It is a short white very fine fiber. I dont know what it is made >from. I'd guess some kind of polyester or polypropylene (or maybe fiberglass, but these days I'd think it's less likely). I could see where that might have several advantages including (1) providing a strengthening matrix all through the piece, unlike the customary flat net of screen wire (2) I wonder if its thermal expansion/contraction properties are similar to concrete's? if so, that cuts down on weather-related stresses (3) unlike wire mesh it won't rust, so if by some accident you do knock a chunk of concrete off, you don't end up with ugly reddish-brown streaks like you do eventually if you've got wire sticking out in the rain. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 18:01:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 16:52:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!stainglasborzoi From: stainglasborzoi@webtv.net (GLORIA DRAG) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: 2 inch round mirror Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 19:12:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1999Feb7.14128.0> Precedence: bulk A few mesages ago, someone requested how to use their Fletcher circle cutter to cut 2 inch round mirror.. Better than that, National Artcraft has 2" round mirror for $2.20 per 10 pieces, you would not have to worry about mirror rot,- since they are a finished piece., no grinding. And their minimum order is $10. Gloria " ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 18:08:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 16:27:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: NG fresh anchovies and Philly cheese steaks, was RE beef grease Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 18:45:14 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb7.234514.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/6/99 11:19:37 PM, s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk wrote: >But note everybody, the anchovies have to be fresh, I didn't know there was such a thing as a fresh anchovy (she said, scuttling for shelter). >not those salted, >oiled, and generally awful stuff usually found in non coastal states. Around my house we refer to those as "road-kill fish." When I was little, my mom used to get those little roll-top rectangular cans of 'kippers." They smelled like something died. I always went outside when she opened up one of those for lunch. Of course I guess in all fairness I ought to admit that to my hypersensitive nose, *any* fish that took more than about half a minute to get from swimming to cooking smells like "the underneath side of the dock of the bay"......... Elisabeth: remind us Filthydelphians to take you out for a cheese steak while you're here. They're goo-oo-oo-oo-ood stuff! (too bad Toby won't be along, I guarantee he'd love 'em!) Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 18:38:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 17:45:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!stainglasborzoi From: stainglasborzoi@webtv.net (GLORIA DRAG) To: suzy@ComCAT.COM, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary=WebTV-Mail-1513036528-409 Subject: Re: ENUF ALREADY! Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 18:40:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1999Feb7.13403.0> References: <> Precedence: bulk --WebTV-Mail-1513036528-409 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit And in Pittsburgh in the strip district, you have Permanti's that add the French fries with gravy over the same sandwich, quite the meal.. --WebTV-Mail-1513036528-409 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from mailsorter-101-3.iap.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.99) by postoffice-242.iap.bryant.webtv.net; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:56:32 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from daver.bungi.com (daver.bungi.com [207.126.97.2]) by mailsorter-101-3.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.graham.14Aug97) with ESMTP id NAA03482; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:56:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:27:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: ENUF ALREADY! Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 15:24:22 -0500 Message-ID: <199902072024.PAA19268@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 2/7/99 10:16 AM Toby toby@northlights.co.uk >And I still don't know what a "Phillysteak" is, Ah well.... You can only get the real thing in Philly. People that move away have strong cravings for them. It's thin-sliced beef sauteed with onions, put into a long Italian roll usually with cheese over it (Philly cheesesteak). Good. PA Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass --WebTV-Mail-1513036528-409-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 19:05:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 18:10:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mediaone.net!bdudack From: "Brian Dudack" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:09:36 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb7.14936.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE52D5.C921CDA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Help please anyone who has info on brass or copper piping to tubing. I = am making garden stick and would like to know where to get them at a = good price. On another note My personal favorite bumper sticker is=20 Give blood become a stained glass artist cathie ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE52D5.C921CDA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Help please anyone who has info on = brass or=20 copper piping to tubing. I am making garden stick and would like to know = where=20 to get them at a good price.
 
On another note My personal favorite bumper sticker = is=20
 
Give blood
become a stained glass artist
 
cathie
------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE52D5.C921CDA0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 19:25:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 18:10:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Results of Wayne and Susan's show? Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:09:48 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb7.14948.0> Precedence: bulk Hey ...... Wayne and Susan Blake. Whatever happened at your show. Did you make sooooo much money you decided to vacation in the Bahamas or what. Inquiring minds want to know ......all the details (not the scandals too much of that going on in the US now) Notice to all : After Action Reports are the price you pay for all this mentoring and cheerleading from the group. ......... smile .................... Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 19:43:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 18:15:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Fw: First Stepping Stone need advice Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:15:31 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb7.141531.0> Precedence: bulk This sounds like shredded fiberglass, or carbon fiber. It is used to strengthen the concrete without the use of rebar (wire). Stealth fiber ....... sounds like everybody is trying to cash in on the Stealth Fighter. I think I'll develop Stealth Gloves so I don't have to bleed all over my workbench. -----Original Message----- From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, February 07, 1999 8:00 PM Subject: Re: Fw: First Stepping Stone need advice > >In a message dated 2/7/99 12:13:51 AM, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com wrote: > >>Steve the Concrete guy who is my teacher, says metal reinforcement isnt >>necessary. He uses something called stealth fiber, which I buy from >>him. It is a short white very fine fiber. I dont know what it is made >>from. > >I'd guess some kind of polyester or polypropylene (or maybe fiberglass, but >these days I'd think it's less likely). I could see where that might have >several advantages including > >(1) providing a strengthening matrix all through the piece, unlike the >customary flat net of screen wire > >(2) I wonder if its thermal expansion/contraction properties are similar to >concrete's? if so, that cuts down on weather-related stresses > >(3) unlike wire mesh it won't rust, so if by some accident you do knock a >chunk of concrete off, you don't end up with ugly reddish-brown streaks like >you do eventually if you've got wire sticking out in the rain. > > >Sparks >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 19:53:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 18:43:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!MD6868 From: MD6868@aol.com To: toby@northlights.co.uk, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: ENUF ALREADY! Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:41:31 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb8.24131.0> Precedence: bulk Elizabeth, A "Phillysteak" aka a "Philly Cheesesteak" is in its east coast version, a very thinly sliced steak, (often rib -eye) sandwich, which consists of the aforesaid steak, fried in a pan, or best on a griddle, in some butter or oil, and served on a crisp warm French roll. Variatiions on the theme include melting of cheese on it, adding grilled onions and or peppers. Truly delicious, but not on the healthy heart list. West coast variations might add lettuce and tomato, pickles, hot peppers, avocado (ugh) of almost anything else. But as in most things, the purest version is the best. Having spent the first 35yrs on the East coast and the last 15 in California, I've learned that the same food item in two different areas might be completely different. For example, ordering coffee "regular" in the mid Atlantic states will get you coffee with milk and sugar added, but elsewhere, regular means "black", or nothing added. The sandwich I described above is, in different parts of the US, known as a "Sub," Hero, Hogie, or in the New England states, it probably would be called a "Steak Grinder". Clear as mud ? Good. Just wait. Lot of things go by different names on this side of the pond. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 20:07:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 18:58:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!MD6868 From: MD6868@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: NG German anyone? Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:54:11 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb8.25411.0> Precedence: bulk Since we are such a diverse and multi - talented group (can't you tell I want something ?) I thought someone could help with a German translation. As confirmed boomers, my wife and I just fell in love with the new Volkswagen Beetle, and so, I was fortunate enough to get one for her recently. We had numerous bugs over the years, and even had a new one in 1967, which cost exactly 1/10th of what the new one did. We just love the car, and have a rear license plate frame slogan that takes after a VW ad which says " Hug it ? Drive it? on the top, and on the bottom says "Ginny's New Beetle. Even though the new one is assembled in Mexico, all the mechanicals are German, and we thought it would be fun to replicate this on a front plate frame, it German.... Can anyone tell me how to say "Hug it ? Drive it ?, and " Ginny's (short for Virginia) New Beetle?? I think the word for beetle is Kafer, but I'm not sure. Thanks Richard Glassics Artglass MD6868@aol'com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 20:30:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 19:10:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!GlsWorks From: GlsWorks@aol.com To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Craft Show Listing Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:08:00 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb8.380.0> Precedence: bulk Does anyone know the web site that lists craft shows by state? I recall seeing this site and can't find the address. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 20:46:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 19:51:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Shirley Balloch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: art fair jurying Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 21:54:44 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb7.155444.0> References: <<1999Feb7.6530.0>> Precedence: bulk > If someone is selling large panels, over 18 square inches, then > workmanship is very important, and I would want some sort of example and > or voucher from satisfied customers. What do you mean by *example*, Shirley? *And*, assuming you have good shots of your work, why the voucher from a satisfied customer? Personally, I have never sold a large panel, but you can be sure If I were to take one to a show it would be as good a quality or better than anything else I took to a show. By that standard, I wouldnt be able to do a juried show until I sold at least one large panel and asked my customer for a letter of recommendation... hmmmmmmmmmm...if you cant get into a show, and you work at home, how are you gonna sell that panel?? Get your friends and family that you have given your work to to stand up for you? Not exactly unbiased. They want you to give them more. PLEASE......Leave some room for some of us newcomers to get in. Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 20:54:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 19:34:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: hidden figures in glass Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 19:39:38 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb7.113938.0> References: <<000801be5300$ad616820$a575c7d0@bankers>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk > >> Shirley, > >> > >> Well, I didn't find the panel I remember... it is of a jungle, and if you > >> look closely you could pick out animals. But, I did find a couple of > things > >> that may provide inspiration for you.... this fellow is an incredible > glass > >> artist. I always drool when I look at his pages.... hope this helps. > >> > >> Dale > >> > >> 12 Asian Year Cycle Depicted > >> > >> http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~itashiro/html-data/gpage9.html > >> > >> Cat Lamp > >> > >> http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~itashiro/html-data/gpage12.html > >> > >> let me know if you have trouble with the links.... > >> > >> the main page is at: > >> http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~itashiro/index.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 21:02:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 19:36:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet From: "Karen K." To: "Bungi List" Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:35:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb7.17358.0> Precedence: bulk Brian, You can get brass welding rods at a weld shop.. Come in different widths and lengths.. Karen PS...... you can get rid of the extra stuff on your post if you change your settings to Plain Text instead of MIME >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.. > >------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE52D5..C921CDA0 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >Help please anyone who has info on brass or copper piping to tubing.. I = >am making garden stick and would like to know where to get them at a = >good price.. > >On another note My personal favorite bumper sticker is=20 > >Give blood >become a stained glass artist > >cathie > >------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE52D5..C921CDA0 >Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> ><HTML> ><HEAD> > ><META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = >http-equiv=3DContent-Type> ><META content=3D'"MSHTML 4..72..3110..7"' name=3DGENERATOR> ></HEAD> ><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> ><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Help please anyone who has info on = >brass or=20 >copper piping to tubing.. I am making garden stick and would like to know = >where=20 >to get them at a good price..</FONT></DIV> ><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> ><DIV><FONT size=3D2>On another note My personal favorite bumper sticker = >is=20 ></FONT></DIV> ><DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> ><DIV><FONT size=3D2>Give blood</FONT></DIV> ><DIV><FONT size=3D2>become a stained glass artist</FONT></DIV> ><DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> ><DIV><FONT size=3D2>cathie</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> > >------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE52D5..C921CDA0-- > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi..com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi..com >Archives available at http://www..bungi..com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 21:17:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:07:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: NG E and food stuff Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 22:11:46 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb7.161146.0> Precedence: bulk Elisabeth... While in the States (probably Fla) Keep an eye out for a krispy kreme shop. Make whoever is driving you stop immediately and go in and try the best donut of your life. Those were my favorite part of growing up in Georgia. Havent been available anywhere else I have lived. :o( Oh yeah, and some boiled peanuts. Yuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmm! Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 21:36:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:20:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: MD6868@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: ENUF ALREADY! Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 20:01:36 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb8.12136.0> References: <<1999Feb8.24131.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk MD6868@aol.com wrote: > > Having spent the > first 35yrs on the East coast and the last 15 in California, I've learned that > the same food item in two different areas might be completely different. > as in Chinese food. The inland Northwest version of "chinese food" is NOTHING like the Boston version of Chinese food. Lets just say that chun king out of a can is looking mighty good these days.......I never saw so much garbage pretending to be chinese..... > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 21:49:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:20:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: to the glass and grub club Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:19:21 -0800 Message-ID: <199902080419.UAA16623@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk I think we should change our name from glass@ bungi to the above. I've learned not to read my email when I'm hungry (except for the anchovey thing...yetch...I'm with Toby on that one. I'd call him a dog with taste, except for the hairy Irish mutton leg thing. C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 21:53:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:48:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: ENUF ALREADY! Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:48:40 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb7.124840.0> Precedence: bulk AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THe bread here WEST COAST....OREGON is nothing like the bread back east. NEVER had pizza (east coast) server with *&^%$&*&*PINEAPPLE! Back east THIN crust and the oil dripped down you arm! ON AND ON! one redeeming thing here Dungeness crab, beat the heck out the mini-crabs on the east coast. No stripped bass, but steelhead aint bad! My monitor is POOFED and it is like looking at a ploar bear in a snow storm........new meaning to "touch" typing later, H ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 22:00:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:06:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet From: "Karen K." To: "Bungi List" , Subject: Re: Craft Show Listing Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 00:05:53 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb7.19553.0> Precedence: bulk I found this one but there is another even better, I'll keep looking. http://www.artandcraftshows.net/ Karen >Does anyone know the web site that lists craft shows by state? I recall >seeing this site and can't find the address. >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 22:13:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:14:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet From: "Karen K." To: Subject: Re: Craft Show Listing Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 00:14:44 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb7.191444.0> Precedence: bulk Found another one, didn't have time to check out the different links at it. http://www.craftsfaironline.com/Listings.html Karen Think Spring! >Does anyone know the web site that lists craft shows by state? I recall >seeing this site and can't find the address. >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 7 23:09:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:13:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Craft Show Listing Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 00:15:37 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb7.181537.0> References: <<1999Feb7.19553.0>> Precedence: bulk http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Park/1644/ There isnt much there...but if your in Pa....lot more than in Ok. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 8 00:01:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:38:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet From: "Karen K." To: "Bungi List" Subject: RE: Garden Sticks Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 01:39:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb7.20398.0> Precedence: bulk Brian, You can get brass welding rods at a weld shop. Come in different widths and lengths. Karen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 8 02:08:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:38:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet From: "Karen K." To: "Bungi List" Subject: RE: Garden Sticks Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 01:39:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb7.20398.0> Precedence: bulk Brian, You can get brass welding rods at a weld shop. Come in different widths and lengths. Karen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 8 02:12:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 23:24:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: ENUF ALREADY! Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 23:27:30 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb7.152730.0> References: <<36BE91B3.2D23@netbridge.net>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk Shirley Balloch wrote: > > Hey Howard, > The shrimp and razor back clams aren't bad either. > Shirley B 15 miles up the road. > > Howard wrote: > > > > AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > THe bread here WEST COAST....OREGON is nothing like the bread back east. > > NEVER had pizza (east coast) server with *&^%$&*&*PINEAPPLE! > > Back east THIN crust and the oil dripped down you arm! > > > > ON AND ON! one redeeming thing here Dungeness crab, beat the heck out the > > mini-crabs on the east coast. No stripped bass, but steelhead aint bad! > > My monitor is POOFED and it is like looking at a ploar bear in a snow > > storm........new meaning to "touch" typing > > later, H -- x>"3 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 8 04:44:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 04:16:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Slogan Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 06:39:56 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb8.13956.0> Precedence: bulk Okay, heres my input..... "Lead, follow, or get the h*ll out of the way!" But then my personal motto is one from Rear Admiral Grace Hopper, "It is easier to ask forgiveness that it is to get permission." Linda Campbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 8 05:45:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 04:41:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mediaone.net!bdudack From: "Brian Dudack" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Craft Show Listing Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 06:40:58 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb8.04058.0> Precedence: bulk try 222.craftsfaironline.com -----Original Message----- From: GlsWorks@aol.com To: Glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, February 07, 1999 10:38 PM Subject: Craft Show Listing >Does anyone know the web site that lists craft shows by state? I recall >seeing this site and can't find the address. >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 8 06:09:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 05:12:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!dro From: Daniel Overbay To: Linda Campbell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Slogan Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 05:04:14 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb7.21414.0> References: <<1999Feb8.13956.0>> Precedence: bulk Linda Campbell wrote: > > Okay, heres my input..... > > "Lead, follow, or get the h*ll out of the way!" =========================================== that's good how about "lead, foil, or get the hell out of the way!" Daniel ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 8 06:47:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 05:42:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Dale Chihuly Billboards Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 08:44:20 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb8.34420.0> Precedence: bulk Our local newspaper has prepared a slide show of the billboards announcing the upcoming Dale Chihuly exhibit. See it at: http://www.pilotonline.com/ linda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 8 07:47:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 06:41:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: GlsWorks@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Craft Show Listing Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 09:39:47 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb8.43947.0> References: <<1999Feb8.380.0>> Precedence: bulk GlsWorks@aol.com wrote: > > Does anyone know the web site that lists craft shows by state? I recall > seeing this site and can't find the address. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass http://www.artandcraftshows.net/ ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 8 08:05:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 07:12:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'GLASS@BUNGI.COM'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: NEw Grinder Bit is Chipping Glass Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:11:23 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb8.51123.0> Precedence: bulk I just put a new bit on my grinder (Diamond Max) and it is chipping glass on the bottom side, even with the slightest touch. I thought maybe I was trying to use the area too close th the edge of the bit so I moved it down some. It is still chipping the under side of my glass. I don't remember this happening when it was new. Anyone have suggestions? Thanks, LInda Campbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 8 08:48:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 07:41:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: violeta.dmg!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: molds Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:41:47 -0500 Message-ID: <199902081541.KAA15135@violeta.dmg> Precedence: bulk Hi Jane, If the mold is semi-spherical you have three options: 1. Get a woodworker to use a lathe to make you the mold. And the do-it-yourselfer: 1. Find a Styrofoam half-sphere. I was able to find 13" in diameter. 2. Find a book on drafting for engineering. In the section solids, find spheres. there are two ways to make a sphere: with gores and with concentrical cones. Both are relatively easy. Then assemble one with strong cardboard. This is essentially the way that spherical tanks are build out of metal sheet for engineering purposes. bareFoot -- Daniel M. German "Technology now more often arouses apocalyptic ecstasies or visions of the kingdom of God Jacques Ellul -> than rational reflection" http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 8 09:51:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 08:30:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: art fair jurying Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 08:30:09 -0800 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk > >Shirley, >Loved what you had to say!! >Great stuff. >Cindy > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 8 10:16:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:18:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Linda Campbell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NEw Grinder Bit is Chipping Glass Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 12:14:41 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb8.71441.0> References: <<1999Feb8.51123.0>> Precedence: bulk Linda Campbell wrote: > > I just put a new bit on my grinder (Diamond Max) and it is chipping glass > on the bottom side, even with the slightest touch. I thought maybe I was > trying to use the area too close th the edge of the bit so I moved it down > some. It is still chipping the under side of my glass. I don't remember > this happening when it was new. Anyone have suggestions? > > Thanks, > > LInda Campbell > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it's a new bit it happens. let it wear a little and it should'nt chip as much. the glass may be too soft. or the bit is'nt a fine bit. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 8 10:55:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:37:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: art fair jurying Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 12:36:53 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb8.73653.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Shirley Balloch >Did I leave anything out group or did this come across too harsh?< Yep, did come across as harsh. You actually insulted the lady who did the original post. Must have hit a sore spot. I didn't read her post as being as insulting to artists/craftspeople. And I beg to differ on some of your points. I view jurying as a process whereby the show organizers can establish a general "feel" for the show, and eliminate obvious crafts & artworks which do not fit that "feel". For instance, the one in which I am active right now is attempting to establish a new Contemporary Fine Arts & Crafts show in a location which has traditionally only had country crafts. So the object of our jurying is to weed out the country crafts in favor of more contemporary art & crafts. The village has 3 other shows which feature country crafts, so we are trying to keep this one strictly contemporary. Also, I beg to differ with you about sloppiness being the hallmark of a young crafter. When jurying by slides, age, race, gender and social background of the artist is not known to the juror. The major criteria we are looking for is 1) contemporary style 2) excellence of craftsmanship (since our target audience is sophistocated) 3) variety of styles 4) variety of media. I'm sure other shows will have different jurying criteria, but these are ours. This lets in amatures as well as professionals, as long as they meet our vision. I do like the idea of inviting some crafters/artists back the following year, waiving the jurying process. This is frequently done, particularly to winners in each media category. We will do the same, but this is our first year so everyone has to be juried. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 8 11:35:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:39:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: art fair jurying Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 12:36:50 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb8.73650.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Carol Swann >Or have each artist submit an actual piece for review. That's quite common. Or allow state of the art submissions...video or digital.< Hi Carol. Thanks for the input, but I beg to differ on our opions here. I have only once submitted acutal pieces for a show, and vowed to never do that again. For one thing, it is difficult enough to transport my stained glass pieces to/from a show, much less expose them to an additional transport to/from jurying, and not knowing who would be handling the artwork, and how careful they = might/might not be with my work. What happens if they break it during jurying? Invariably the actual pieces are not properly lighted for glass, particularly in an open media show. So I prefer to handle my own lighting of my own artwork, and photograph them in both slide & print film. I always take several shots of the same subject, bracketing them as per photographing crafts (particularly glass) in the Steve Metzer book "Pho- tographing Crafts". This way I not only have my print portfolio, but I also have a slide portfolio. Whenever I need to submit slides for jurying, I bring out the slide portfolio and select my best shots. I photograph subjects as they are completed, and always take camera & tripod to each installation, so as to not inconvenience my clients more than necessary. Jurying by slides is still the accepted medium. And in my show, the judges are being asked to judge artwork using a common denominator - slides. This way all artists are at least given the same playing field to start. It makes it a hardship on the judges to be asked to judge all different kinds of media based on a variety of stuff like prints, slides, drawings, and actual artwork. So, we prefer to just use slides. Maybe someday video and digital will be a standard method of jurying pieces, but not right now. Anyway...my $.02 worth. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 8 11:36:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:41:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: NG glass & grub, was ENUF ALREADY Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 12:32:35 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb8.173235.0> Precedence: bulk Also sprach Howard: >THe bread here WEST COAST....OREGON is nothing like the bread back east. Maybe not in Oregon, but nothing, and I do mean *nothing*, in the bread department on either end of the country compares to real San Francisco sourdough, extra sour, fresh from the oven! First runner-up: the flour tortillas my best friend's mom used to make when I was in grade school......... we'd eat them hot off the griddle until we were stuffed. Sparks, trying to fight off a bad set of cravings :-( ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 8 16:18:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:40:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NEw Grinder Bit is Chipping Glass Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:36:13 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb8.23613.0> Precedence: bulk >>I just put a new bit on my grinder (Diamond Max) and it is chipping glass on the bottom side, even with the slightest touch. I thought maybe I was trying to use the area too close th the edge of the bit so I moved it down some. It is still chipping the under side of my glass. I don't remember this happening when it was new. Anyone have suggestions? Thanks, LInda Campbel< Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:34:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: "Christie A. Wood" Subject: Re: art fair jurying Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:16:46 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb8.181646.0> References: <<1999Feb7.75329.0@?>> Precedence: bulk Hello folks! I have just come back from adjudicating an award for mid-course glass students on a degree course for the Scottish Glass Society. So these are the considerations we have in our minds when judging for the award(s) First - have in mind the objectives of the event/award/etc. Second - get some background on the entrants (supplied by them, of course) Third - actual viewing - three parts A - originality - e.g., of subject, type of work, use of material B - technique - e.g., technical quality, finish, attention to detail C - overall reaction - i.e. personal impression These three are marked out of 10, or 5 or what ever range is desirable, but all judges must use the same range, so 10 is what SGS uses. Fourth - add up the scores and rank in order up to the number of awards/entries, etc. Fifth - compare with other judges. All those which did not make it onto the top on anyone's list are eliminated. Alternatively, stages 4 & 5 can be combined, so that any entries which make it over some score are accepted, whether that is a score predetermined or based on a distribution curve ( e.g. any entry making it over 60% (or any other level determined after the scoring) of the combined judges scores would be accepted) Sixth - confer with other judges on the borderline cases (either top or bottom, or marginal) Anyway that's the way we judged a number of works today and awarded a 100 UK pounds prize to a student. It wasn't easy, as we quickly got down to 4, and 5 minutes later to 3. Another 15 minutes got us down to 2. But it was another hour before we selected the winner. It was all amicable, but strong views had to be reconciled. Steve In message <1999Feb7.75329.0@?>, Christie A. Wood writes >Message text written by "Molly Keys" >>So put your thinking caps on and think of how you would like shows to be= > =3D >juried. What should the jurors be looking for?< > >Hi there Molly. I also am a juror for a Fine Arts & Crafts Festival. We= > >judge >by slides also. Five slides representing the artist's style are required= >. = > >We >look for originality of style - i.e. not just the same old patterns anyon= >e >can >purchase and build. Consistency of vision throughout the 5 slides. >Technical ability (i.e. good soldering, good designs for the glass, glass= > >selection which is appropriate to the subject matter, etc.). Since this = >is >a >fine arts festival, we are also interested in ideas which expand the medi= >um >in some way. New and interesting ways of using the glass. > >Christie A. Wood >Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, >P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 >http://www.igga.org/wood/ >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 8 16:19:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 12:34:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: city-net.com!dany From: "Daniela Birkelbach" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NG German anyone? Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 15:32:24 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb8.103224.0> Precedence: bulk Tranlsations are always tough when trying to convey the same meaning with the same sound. Here is what I would say: Liebst Du ihn? F=E4hrst Du ihn?, Ginny's neue= r K=E4fer . But it doesn't have the same ring. Maybe Lieb' ihn - fahr' ih= n! Beetles are great - I had an old 69 beetle and loved him!! There are some other Germans on this list maybe they can respond as well. Viel Spass mit dem Fahrvergn=FCgen!!!!! Dany >-----Original Message----- >From: MD6868@aol.com >To: glass@bungi.com >Date: Sunday, February 07, 1999 11:03 PM >Subject: NG German anyone? > > >> Since we are such a diverse and multi - talented group (can't you tell= I >want >>something ?) I thought someone could help with a German translation. >> >>As confirmed boomers, my wife and I just fell in love with the new >Volkswagen >>Beetle, and so, I was fortunate enough to get one for her recently. We = had >>numerous bugs over the years, and even had a new one in 1967, which cos= t >>exactly 1/10th of what the new one did. We just love the car, and have = a >rear >>license plate frame slogan that takes after a VW ad which says " Hug it= ? >>Drive it? on the top, and on the bottom says "Ginny's New Beetle. Even >though >>the new one is assembled in Mexico, all the mechanicals are German, and= we >>thought it would be fun to replicate this on a front plate frame, it >>German.... Can anyone tell me how to say "Hug it ? Drive it ?, and >>" Ginny's (short for Virginia) New Beetle?? I think the word for beetle= is >>Kafer, but I'm not sure. >> >>Thanks >> >>Richard >>Glassics Artglass >>MD6868@aol'com >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 8 16:31:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:23:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: "Christie A. Wood" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: art fair jurying Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 12:54:38 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb8.45438.0> References: <<1999Feb8.73650.0>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk I agree, taking the product to be juried is a pain. But the only one that I ever did this for, was like an open cattle call(actor's term). We all came with our product at the same time. Were given a table and an amount of time to set up a display. Then the judges walked around and juried by a point system. The display with the most points was invited to the show. Seemed very fair to me. Being new to this, I appreciated the points I got from observing and speaking to the other artists. And the only one that handled my product was me. Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 8 16:48:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 15:20:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us!gonzalj From: Jim Gonzalez To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: molds Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:18:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1999Feb8.111822.0> References: <<199902081541.KAA15135@violeta.dmg>> Precedence: bulk Over the weekend I was exploring some of the sites listed on the Bungi home page and found a reference to mold making which sounded interesting. The site was Tashiro Stained and Leaded Glass / Technical room / page 2. http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~itashiro/html-data/tpage2.html Gives a detailed description (with links to pictures) of the method. He uses balsa wood to build up the mold. I figured you could also use sheets of styrofoam instead of balsa wood. What do y'all think? Jim ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 8 17:46:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:34:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY From: JJKIRBY@aol.com To: Witchdoc3@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: NG glass & grub, was ENUF ALREADY Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 19:30:47 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb9.03047.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/8/99 11:36:59 AM Pacific Standard Time, Witchdoc3@aol.com writes: << department on either end of the country compares to real San Francisco sourdough, extra sour, fresh from the oven! >> I live in the bay area and agree with you that sourdough is very good... but having had fresh Italian bread in Boston (the big twisted loaves with sesame seeds on top), I must say it's a tie. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 8 17:57:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:53:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY From: JJKIRBY@aol.com To: balloch@netbridge.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: I have a bee in my bonnet. Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 19:37:09 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb9.0379.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/8/99 1:55:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, balloch@netbridge.net writes: << My best search was in excite by searching art"anamorphic" >> adapting a pattern from Escher would also represent an interesting stained glass challenge, it would probably be quite unique. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 8 18:09:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 17:06:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Stone info Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 19:08:12 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb8.13812.0> Precedence: bulk I sent out the way I do stones. If I missed anyone that requested it, let me know, and I will send it to you. Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 8 18:50:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:07:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw From: "Granny And PawPaw" To: "bungi" , "Linda Campbell" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NEw Grinder Bit is Chipping Glass Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 20:59:59 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb8.155959.0> Precedence: bulk It's unusual for the bit to chip the glass only on the bottom. [I assume that the glass is chipping on the underside of the piece] A fast bit may chip the full edge when new. The only possible reason that I can see for the problem is that your grinding table isn't flat. That would tilt the glass exposing the lower edge....You might remove the bit and lay a straight edge across the table to see if it is even across. Hope this helps... Arnold -----Original Message----- From: Linda Campbell To: 'GLASS@BUNGI.COM' Date: Monday, February 08, 1999 11:20 AM Subject: NEw Grinder Bit is Chipping Glass >I just put a new bit on my grinder (Diamond Max) and it is chipping glass >on the bottom side, even with the slightest touch. I thought maybe I was >trying to use the area too close th the edge of the bit so I moved it down >some. It is still chipping the under side of my glass. I don't remember >this happening when it was new. Anyone have suggestions? > >Thanks, > >LInda Campbell >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 8 19:50:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:37:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Karen K." Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NG.....excentricity??? Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:33:42 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb8.103342.0> Precedence: bulk >>Bob, Can you define "excentricity" for those of us who skipped most of our high school english classes. At first I tought it was a typographical error. Thanks, Karen Think Spring!<< High school might not have helped. Centric is in the dictionary and means having a center or many centers. Centricity is a sub word and means having surface markings centrally arranged. The ex part= no longer. Think I am now confused and will substitute the phrase, "out of round" in reference to the grinding head that insists in chipping glass. Bob Grass is green here and the first California poppies are up. Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Please note new address of: bobdu@prodigy.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 8 20:00:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:46:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: molds Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 21:44:58 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb8.164458.0> Precedence: bulk I didn't know bungi *had a home page! Where is it? Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 8 20:19:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 19:26:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet From: "Karen K." To: "Bob E Duchesneau" , "Bungi List" Subject: Re: NG.....excentricity??? Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 22:25:32 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb8.172532.0> Precedence: bulk Bob, Okay, now I get it. What we would call "lop-sided" in layman talk. Karen Grass is pale and mushy here and has several snowplow divets in it. Maybe if I looked hard I could find the tip of a crocus or daffadil......Nah! >Bob wrote: >Think I am now confused and will substitute the phrase, "out of round" in >reference to the grinding head that insists in chipping glass. > >Bob >Grass is green here and the first California poppies are up. > >Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 >Please note new address of: bobdu@prodigy.net > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 9 04:58:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 03:53:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: hotmail.com!agacic From: "Alex Gacic" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Follow up to, to buy or not Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 03:53:19 PST Message-ID: <1999Feb9.115319.0> Precedence: bulk Hi, everyone Thanks for all the advice and info on buying out a glass business. One thing I would like to add. All of his sidelite, door and panel work was done using copper foil. He claimed that he developed and gets royalities from the black adhesive thats being used on foil. Probably not much judging from his surroundings. He said he never uses lead came. What he does is use wider foil maybe 1/4" or wider, then twists two lines of solder together, and then uses his big 300w iron to solder the joints. The tip on that iron is about 3/4" wide. I've seen some of his work, the joints looked good. He also claims doing it this way prevents any sagging. I would think that would be pretty weather tight too. Thanks again Alex Gacic (looking for funds or a government grant) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 9 05:04:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 03:59:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'Bob E Duchesneau'" , Bungi , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: NG.....excentricity??? Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 07:01:18 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb9.2118.0> Precedence: bulk The word you search for is ECCENTRITITY, pronounced "eks..." It means having different centers, which would be out of round. Here in the ship repair business it refers to the difference in feet between the centerline of keel blocks and the center of gravity of a ship's weight. We pronounce it (maybe incorrectly) e-sen-tri-city. Help us to determine the loading at each point along the line of blocks a ship is docked on. I've had some good input into why my bit is chipping the glass. I suspect the answer is that the table may not be sitting perpendicular to the bit. I will check it out later this week and report my findings. Thanks to all. Linda Can you define "excentricity" for those of us who skipped most of our high school english classes. At first I tought it was a typographical error. Thanks, Karen Think Spring!<< ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 9 05:17:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 04:02:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'Suzanne'" , "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Stone info Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 07:04:19 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb9.2419.0> Precedence: bulk Thanyou Suxanne, Very good details. I have printed it out for my files and plan to make a splash block this weekend. Linda I sent out the way I do stones. If I missed anyone that requested it, let me know, and I will send it to you. Tulsa Suzanne ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 9 05:37:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 04:12:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Cold.... Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 07:11:17 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb9.21117.0> Precedence: bulk There is frost on my windows and cold as heck here! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 9 05:57:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 05:06:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: city-net.com!dany From: "Daniela Birkelbach" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: NG German anyone? Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 08:04:50 -0500 Message-ID: <199902091249.HAA17977@dns.city-net.com> Precedence: bulk Sorry, the =E4 is the a umlaut (ae), the =FC is the u umlaut (ue) > > Here is what I would say: Liebst Du ihn? F=E4hrst Du ihn?, Ginny's neue= > r > K=E4fer . But it doesn't have the same ring. Maybe Lieb' ihn - fahr' ih= > n! > > Beetles are great - I had an old 69 beetle and loved him!! > > There are some other Germans on this list maybe they can respond as well. > > Viel Spass mit dem Fahrvergn=FCgen!!!!! > Dany ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 9 06:58:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 06:01:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: cold in Va Laura Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 09:01:06 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb9.416.0> Precedence: bulk That sounds just about like us here except for the snow...we had cold rain Sunday....only 30 degrees here this upcoming weekend ,too. Wishing for springtime,Abbie. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 9 07:05:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 06:03:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us!gonzalj From: Jim Gonzalez To: Dani Greer Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: molds Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 09:13:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1999Feb9.41351.0> References: <<1999Feb8.164458.0>> Precedence: bulk Surely you jest. It's in the footer added to every message. http://www.bungi.com/glass Check it out, links to other SG sites and the entire archive of the group. Jim On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Dani Greer wrote: > I didn't know bungi *had a home page! Where is it? > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 9 07:38:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 05:43:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Follow up to, to buy or not Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 08:35:23 -0500 Message-ID: <199902091335.IAA27524@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 2/9/99 6:53 AM Alex Gacic agacic@hotmail.com >One thing I would like to add. All of his sidelite, door and panel work >was done using copper foil. He claimed that he developed and gets >royalities from the black adhesive thats being used on foil. Probably >not much judging from his surroundings. > >He said he never uses lead came. What he does is use wider foil maybe >1/4" or wider, then twists two lines of solder together, and then uses >his big 300w iron to solder the joints. The tip on that iron is about >3/4" wide. I've seen some of his work, the joints looked good. He also >claims doing it this way prevents any sagging. I would think that would >be pretty weather tight too. > >Thanks again >Alex Gacic >(looking for funds or a government grant) Alex, Thanks for sharing that with us. Very interesting! Sorry I don't have any funds or grants. Suzanne > > > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 9 08:00:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 05:50:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netusa1.net!t6686 From: L Nelson To: Evelyn C Mason Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Cold.... Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 09:01:45 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb9.1145.0> References: <<1999Feb9.21117.0>> Precedence: bulk Were are you?? I'm in Indiana and the sun is shinning and it's suppose to get up to 50 today and 65 tomorrow but then Fri and week-end it's going to be in the 30's and last Sunday (3) days ago it was snowing.... thant's good old Indiana weather for you!!! Laura Evelyn C Mason wrote: > There is frost on my windows and cold as heck here! > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 9 08:05:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 06:47:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: NG...interesting test Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 08:51:57 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb9.25157.0> Precedence: bulk See how intelligent you really are!! A quick test of intelligence. Don't cheat! Because if you did, the test would be no fun. I promise, there are no tricks to this test. Read this sentence: FINISHED FILES ARE THE RE- SULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIF- IC STUDY COMBINED WITH THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS. Now count aloud the F's in that sentence. Count them ONLY ONCE!! Don't go back, that's cheating! See Answers Below....... ANSWER: There are six F's in the sentence. One of average intelligence finds three of them. If you spotted four, you are above average. If you got five, you can turn your nose at most anybody. If you caught six, you are a genius. There is no catch. Many people forget the "OF"'s. The human brain tends to see them as V's and not F's. Pretty weird, huh? It fools almost everybody. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 9 10:01:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 08:46:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Any info on courses in New Delhi India? Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 16:34:58 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb9.163458.0> Precedence: bulk Hello all, I have been contacted by an architect in New Delhi who wants to start learning how to work in stained glass. Do any bungians in that part of the country know of any formal courses available I can direct him to? Or failing that any suggestions of studios where he may be able to learn? Regards EliZabeth Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 9 10:11:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 08:49:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Teaching and Liability Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 08:51:10 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb9.05110.0> Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk Hi all, Does anyone require their students to sign a waiver of liability. I am gathering all of my pre-reg forms together and wondered if this might be a good document to include. More of a take this class at your own risk type of form I suppose I should have said. Yes I plan on teaching glass safety but I'm afraid of getting that one person who gets a glass cut, no insurance and wants me to pay or worse yet, sues the heck out of me. Does this concern anyone or am I being to paranoid? Thanks, Pam -- ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists Moswood Mountain Limited http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 9 20:16:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 19:22:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: art fair jurying Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:42:18 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb9.94218.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:balloch@netbridge.net >We all came with our product at the same time. Were given a table and an amount of time to set up a display. Then the judges walked around and juried by a point system. The display with the most points was invited to the show.< Yuck. I wouldn't have gone to this sort of "cattle call". It takes me at least 3 hours to set up my 10'x8' booth and get it loaded up = and ready for a retail art fair show...5 hours if it's for a wholesale show. No way would I do that without first going through a jurying process. Wastes too much of my time. This sounds OK for church-type craft shows where you are all using 6' long tables for displays. But not for professional shows. Certainly not for fine art fairs. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 9 20:29:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 19:29:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: NG.....excentricity??? Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:01:29 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb9.10129.0> Precedence: bulk Grass is green and our California poppies are coming up,too... and I live= in Colorado!! ;-) best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 9 20:31:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 19:30:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:31:52 +0000 Message-ID: <199902091925.OAA17953@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Yes I plan on teaching glass safety but I'm afraid of getting that one > person who gets a glass cut, no insurance and wants me to pay or worse > yet, sues the heck out of me. Does this concern anyone or am I being to > paranoid? No, you're just being businesslike. Have your attorney draw up a simple form for students to use, waiving their rights to sue. It won't guarantee you won't be sued, but they will have been informed of their responsibility to look after themselves and to follow the safety precautions you tell them, making it much more difficult for them to hassle you with lawsuits. Of course, you'll have to be sure to tell them about any hazards, advise them to take whatever precautions are necessary, etc. Anyone who's lawsuit-happy won't sign it, which will be a clue to their motivations. I suspect everyone will do so. Then it'll be up to you to be sure you carefully file those signed bits of paper away just in case someone *does make a claim. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 9 20:44:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:00:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: hbci.com!RMYNG98 From: "Ron Young" To: "Dana at home" , , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NG...interesting test Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:30:28 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb9.93028.0> Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, February 08, 1999 6:00 PM Subject: NG...interesting test >See how intelligent you really are!! > >A quick test of intelligence. >Don't cheat! Because if you did, the test would be no fun. >I promise, there are no tricks to this test. > >Read this sentence: > >FINISHED FILES ARE THE RE- >SULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIF- >IC STUDY COMBINED WITH >THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS. > >Now count aloud the F's in that sentence. >Count them ONLY ONCE!! Don't go back, that's cheating! > >See Answers Below....... > > > >ANSWER: There are six F's in the sentence. >One of average intelligence finds three of them. >If you spotted four, you are above average. >If you got five, you can turn your nose at most anybody. >If you caught six, you are a genius. >There is no catch. Many people forget the "OF"'s. >The human brain tends to see them as V's and not F's. > >Pretty weird, huh? >It fools almost everybody. >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 9 20:58:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:06:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mindspring.com!juliam From: "Julia Moseley" To: "Pamela Burns-Tappan" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:11:03 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb9.12113.0> Precedence: bulk Pam, When I took my first stained glass class, I signed a form waiving the teacher's and the store's responsibility for any injuries. That seems fair enough to me; ten or twelve novices with 100 watt irons waving around can be a bit of a hazard. :-) Julia Moseley Kirkland, Washington -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 8:49 AM Subject: Teaching and Liability >Hi all, > >Does anyone require their students to sign a waiver of liability. I am >gathering all of my pre-reg forms together and wondered if this might be >a good document to include. More of a take this class at your own risk >type of form I suppose I should have said. > >Yes I plan on teaching glass safety but I'm afraid of getting that one >person who gets a glass cut, no insurance and wants me to pay or worse >yet, sues the heck out of me. Does this concern anyone or am I being to >paranoid? > >Thanks, > >Pam > >-- >********************************* > >Pamela Burns-Tappan >Executive Director >The Stained Glass Artists >http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists > >Moswood Mountain Limited >http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited >http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1 > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 9 21:19:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:11:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: fair.net!andor From: "Linda Letscher" To: "bungi.com" Subject: Price for Overhead projector Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:45:31 -0500 Message-ID: <199902092146.QAA24107@smtp.america.net> Precedence: bulk I was out today and came across a overhead projector, the man bought from the local college. I didn't get the name of it but it is thing where you put your something down on it and it projects on a wall or screen or what have you. He said he would sell me one for $55.00 Is that a good price? I thought if it was a decent price I would use it to transfer or enlarge a patterns. Anyone have any input?? Thanks, Linda Jo ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 9 21:31:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:11:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: art fair jurying Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:42:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb9.9428.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Carol Swann >It must be nice to be able to afford 2 camera bodies. < I can't afford 2 camera bodies either. I have one camera with tripod and remote release, and 2 photographer's spot lights. I load up the camera with one set of slide film, shoot, reload with print film, shoot same subjects. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 9 21:39:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:11:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ghostman.com!candy From: "Candy Thurman" To: "glass@bungi.com" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: NEw Grinder Bit is Chipping Glass Date: Tue, 09 Feb 99 18:10:06 Message-ID: <199902100110.SAA26592@mantis.privatei.com> Precedence: bulk it's probably too rough a grind... get a fine.. Candy On Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:36:13 -0800, Bob E Duchesneau wrote: >>>I just put a new bit on my grinder (Diamond Max) and it is chipping glass >on the bottom side, even with the slightest touch. I thought maybe I was >trying to use the area too close th the edge of the bit so I moved it down >some. It is still chipping the under side of my glass. I don't remember >this happening when it was new. Anyone have suggestions? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 9 21:52:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:38:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: eatumup.com!byronwells From: byronwells@eatumup.com (Byron Wells) To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Abrasive Blasting Pricing Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:31:40 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb9.163140.0> Precedence: bulk Hey all.... I'm trying to expand a bit and was wondering if there are any pricing formulas yall use for abrasive blast etching work?? I dont want to be to high and scare people off and at the same time I dont want to be to low and make nothing either... I realize that just as with panel work the more detailed the work is the longer it takes and the price needs to climb accordingly... I'd just like a starting point is all....Thats what I did with panel work and have gradually gotten my prices where they need to be... Thanks Byron Wells Glassworks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 9 21:59:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:39:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: eatumup.com!byronwells From: byronwells@eatumup.com (Byron Wells) To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:25:52 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb9.162552.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Pam.... I would definitely include that in your forms.. Wont cost but a few cents a copy... With all the ambulance chasers out there you cant be to careful... Just never know when someone is looking for an easy score.... We like to believe the best of folks but unfortuneately there are always a few rotten apples...I had to sign a similar form for karate a few years back and have signed them for other things... It's just covering yer own behind.. Byron... Wells Glassworks -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 6:19 AM Subject: Teaching and Liability >Hi all, > >Does anyone require their students to sign a waiver of liability. I am >gathering all of my pre-reg forms together and wondered if this might be >a good document to include. More of a take this class at your own risk >type of form I suppose I should have said. > >Yes I plan on teaching glass safety but I'm afraid of getting that one >person who gets a glass cut, no insurance and wants me to pay or worse >yet, sues the heck out of me. Does this concern anyone or am I being to >paranoid? > >Thanks, > >Pam > >-- >********************************* > >Pamela Burns-Tappan >Executive Director >The Stained Glass Artists >http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists > >Moswood Mountain Limited >http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited >http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1 > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 9 22:07:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:48:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: eatumup.com!byronwells From: byronwells@eatumup.com (Byron Wells) To: "Suzanne" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Printer review Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:50:42 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb9.165042.0> Precedence: bulk I've been looking for a larger printer to use with Glass Eye and such... Since most of my panels are sidelights,transoms,cabinet doors etc I wanted to be able to print them out on fewer sheets of paper.. I've been looking for several months at HPs and Epsons wider printers(they will accept up to 11x17 paper) but have been put off by the $500 price tag on them...The other day I was in Best Buy and they had a new Canon BJC-5000 for $199.... I tried the demo deal on it and it printed great on plain paper. I figgured for 199 it was worth a shot...I brought it home and it works great... Even does near photo quality with the optional cartridge... I can now do a quicky full size printout for my customers without so much taping together... Anyway if anyone has been looking for a larger printer without having to get a 2nd mortgage on the house ya cant beat this one... Byron... Wells Glassworks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 9 22:45:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:51:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ticnet.com!rjlcon From: "Jak N Wolfy" To: "Linda Letscher" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Price for Overhead projector Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:55:41 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb9.175541.0> Precedence: bulk Linda, If it works well with no problems I'd go for it. I bought an artascope (I think thats what it's called) several years ago and I believe I payed 98.00 for it then new. If this projector looks like the professional ones you place on a desk that has a glass surface for 8 x 11 inch pages, new it could run in the hundreds. Just take something like a pattern or photo to try on it to check it out and see if it will do what you need it to. For the ones I remember you had to use transparencies for it to creat the image on the screen. But if all is well and you like what you see, I'd grab it............Jackie -----Original Message----- From: Linda Letscher To: bungi.com Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 11:26 PM Subject: Price for Overhead projector >I was out today and came across a overhead projector, the man bought from >the local college. I didn't get the name of it but it is thing where you >put your something down on it and it projects on a wall or screen or what >have you. He said he would sell me one for $55.00 Is that a good price? >I thought if it was a decent price I would use it to transfer or enlarge a >patterns. Anyone have any input?? >Thanks, >Linda Jo > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 9 23:00:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:52:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Suzanne Subject: Re: NG...interesting test Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:23:01 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb9.22231.0> References: <<1999Feb9.25157.0@?>> Precedence: bulk Not an intelligence test!!! It tests observation. A child would do better for the reasons you outlined about the prepositions. In message <1999Feb9.25157.0@?>, Suzanne writes >See how intelligent you really are!! > >A quick test of intelligence. >Don't cheat! Because if you did, the test would be no fun. >I promise, there are no tricks to this test. > >Read this sentence: > >FINISHED FILES ARE THE RE- >SULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIF- >IC STUDY COMBINED WITH >THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS. > >Now count aloud the F's in that sentence. >Count them ONLY ONCE!! Don't go back, that's cheating! > >See Answers Below....... > > > >ANSWER: There are six F's in the sentence. >One of average intelligence finds three of them. >If you spotted four, you are above average. >If you got five, you can turn your nose at most anybody. >If you caught six, you are a genius. >There is no catch. Many people forget the "OF"'s. >The human brain tends to see them as V's and not F's. > >Pretty weird, huh? >It fools almost everybody. >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 9 23:44:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:47:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!emilie From: Emilie Golding To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: bottle glass Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 22:31:07 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb9.14317.0> Precedence: bulk I've been cutting up old bottles, melting them into freeform shapes, and then wrapping them with wire. The problem is I'm getting a lot of devitrification. To cover up the scummy part, I've been sandblasting and tumbling the pieces (making them look like beach glass). Is there a way to fire bottle glass and get better results? I can't seem to find the best combination of temperature and time. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 01:35:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:55:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Emilie Golding" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: bottle glass Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:31:22 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb9.163122.0> Precedence: bulk >>The problem is I'm getting a lot of devitrification. To cover up the scummy part, I've been sandblasting and tumbling the pieces (making them look like beach glass). Is there a way to fire bottle glass and get better results? I can't seem to find the best combination of temperature and time.<< Above 1100'F go as fast as your kiln will go to 1550'F and then flash vent to below 1100'F. Go a bit higher or lower as necessary for the glass you are using. The idea is to minimise the time the glass is exposed to high heat. Going to a higher heat is prefferable to soaking at a lower heat to achieve the same effect. Also clean the glass well as surface impurities may lead to devitrification. Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Please note new address of: bobdu@prodigy.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 03:33:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 03:13:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'Linda Letscher'" , "bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Price for Overhead projector Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:14:26 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb10.11426.0> Precedence: bulk If it's a big heavy thing like the old school models, it is worth about $500 new. I bought one used about 20 years ago fdor $25 bucks. I've had to replace the bulb once. That was another $25 but it has been worth it. With the age of computers and scanners, I use it less but it's still a nice toy. Linda Campbell -----Original Message----- From: Linda Letscher [SMTP:andor@fair.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 4:46 PM To: bungi.com Subject: Price for Overhead projector I was out today and came across a overhead projector, the man bought from the local college. I didn't get the name of it but it is thing where you put your something down on it and it projects on a wall or screen or what have you. He said he would sell me one for $55.00 Is that a good price? I thought if it was a decent price I would use it to transfer or enlarge a patterns. Anyone have any input?? Thanks, Linda Jo ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 04:36:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 03:50:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon From: BMarhon@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Price for Overhead projector Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:41:48 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb10.114148.0> Precedence: bulk You can buy transparencies at an office supply house and use them instead of paper to photocopy whatever you want to put on the projector. Brenda << For the ones I remember you had to use transparencies for it to creat the image on the screen. >> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 07:47:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:25:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pobox.com!Northernlights From: "Northernlights (Tracy Reitmann)" To: BMarhon@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Price for Overhead projector Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:25:47 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb10.22547.0> References: <<1999Feb10.114148.0>> Precedence: bulk I also think that most all of the copy places will copy something for you onto a transparency. You can also load transparency paper into most printers if you're designing something yourself (I've printed more than my share of presentations onto transparencies at work!). I've had an overhead projecter on my "things to look for" at garage sales, flea markets, etc. But just thought of another place to look -- used office equipment (what with the popular use of Powerpoint and computer LCD displays, I would think there would be a good supply of used overhead projecters at those types of stores). BMarhon@aol.com wrote: > You can buy transparencies at an office supply house and use them instead of > paper to photocopy whatever you want to put on the projector. > Brenda > > << For the ones I remember you had to use transparencies for it to creat > the image on the screen. >> > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 07:49:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:49:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: Teaching and Liability Date: Wed Feb 10 06:49:17 1999 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.42717.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5502.BFC4CC56 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Pam Based on what has happened to acquaintances, I would not only include the waiver but would also include a list of basic safety requirement. You know the ones: glass is sharp be careful; always use safety glasses with the grinder; don't inhale the fumes from the solder ... The waiver should be signed when they register for the class, it can actually be part of the registration form. Also make sure they get a copy of the safety rules. It should state that they have gotten it in the waiver. You should also get certified in basic first aid. That little card can carry a lot of weight in court when you have placed a Band-Aid on someone's finger. Bet you didn't know you could be sued for "miss-applying" a Band-Aid. Vic M. Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com Isn't it amazing how similar caution and paranoia have become? -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Burns-Tappan [mailto:ptap@pacifier.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 11:51 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Teaching and Liability Hi all, Does anyone require their students to sign a waiver of liability. I am gathering all of my pre-reg forms together and wondered if this might be a good document to include. More of a take this class at your own risk type of form I suppose I should have said. Yes I plan on teaching glass safety but I'm afraid of getting that one person who gets a glass cut, no insurance and wants me to pay or worse yet, sues the heck out of me. Does this concern anyone or am I being to paranoid? Thanks, Pam -- ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists Moswood Mountain Limited http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5502.BFC4CC56 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Teaching and Liability

Pam

Based on what has happened to = acquaintances, I would not only = include the waiver but would also include a list of basic safety = requirement. You know the ones: glass is sharp be careful; always use = safety glasses with the grinder; don't inhale the fumes from the solder = ... The waiver should be signed when they register for the class, it = can actually be part of the registration form.

Also make sure they get a copy of the = safety rules. It should state that they have gotten it in the waiver. =

You should also get certified in basic = first aid. That little card can carry a lot of weight in court when you = have placed a Band-Aid on someone's finger.  Bet you didn't know = you could be sued for "miss-applying" a = Band-Aid. 

Isn't it amazing how similar caution = and paranoia have become?


      -----Original = Message-----
      From:   Pamela = Burns-Tappan [mailto:ptap@pacifier.com]
      Sent:   Tuesday, February 09, 1999 11:51 AM
      To:     glass@bungi.com
      Subject:       = Teaching and Liability

      Hi all,

      Does anyone require their students to = sign a waiver of liability. I am
      gathering all of my pre-reg forms = together and wondered if this might be
      a good document to include. More of a = take this class at your own risk
      type of form I suppose I should have = said.

      Yes I plan on teaching glass safety = but I'm afraid of getting that one
      person who gets a glass cut, no = insurance and wants me to pay or worse
      yet, sues the heck out of me. Does = this concern anyone or am I being to
      paranoid?

      Thanks,

      Pam

      --
      *********************************

      Pamela Burns-Tappan
      Executive Director
      The Stained Glass Artists
      http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists

      Moswood Mountain Limited
      http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited
      http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1


      ----
      For subscription changes, please mail = to: glass-request@bungi.com
      To send to the = list,      please mail to: = glass@bungi.com
      Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5502.BFC4CC56-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 08:06:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:57:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ticnet.com!rjlcon From: "Jak N Wolfy" To: "Byron Wells" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Abrasive Blasting Pricing Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:00:42 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb10.3042.0> Precedence: bulk Byron, Start with a square foot price. 20., 30, 40, what ever where you live would handle comfortably. Measure your pattern height and width from edges of the pattern drawing. Ad 2 inches both directions and use that for your dimensions. Add a certain percent for original artwork if it is....( make a note somewhere that artwork is the property of artist and protect...you may not have a copyright but it will scare some people off from copying your work) If you're surface blasting go with that price . If it's stage blasting and carving add a certain percent for 1 to 3 stage and a different percent for mulit-stage and complexity. If you need to find a rough starting point in your area for sq.ft. call someone and play dumb. Tell tham you have a cabinet door frame that you want etched glass in and how much it would cost..............................Jackie -----Original Message----- From: Byron Wells To: glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 12:02 AM Subject: Abrasive Blasting Pricing >Hey all.... > >I'm trying to expand a bit and was wondering if there are any pricing >formulas yall use for abrasive blast etching work?? I dont want to be to >high and scare people off and at the same time I dont want to be to low and >make nothing either... I realize that just as with panel work the more >detailed the work is the longer it takes and the price needs to climb >accordingly... I'd just like a starting point is all....Thats what I did >with panel work and have gradually gotten my prices where they need to be... > >Thanks >Byron >Wells Glassworks > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 08:26:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:10:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Linda Letscher Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Price for Overhead projector Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:08:34 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb10.5834.0> References: <<199902092146.QAA24107@smtp.america.net>> Precedence: bulk Linda Letscher wrote: > > I was out today and came across a overhead projector, the man bought from > the local college. I didn't get the name of it but it is thing where you > put your something down on it and it projects on a wall or screen or what > have you. He said he would sell me one for $55.00 Is that a good price? > I thought if it was a decent price I would use it to transfer or enlarge a > patterns. Anyone have any input?? > Thanks, > Linda Jo > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it sounds like an opaque projector which sells for about $100-$300. i use it all the time when making my projects. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 08:47:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:17:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Evelyn C Mason Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Cold.... Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:20:14 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb10.32014.0> References: <<1999Feb9.21117.0>> Precedence: bulk Evelyn C Mason wrote: > > There is frost on my windows and cold as heck here! Supposed to be close to 80 here today, and 22 on Friday! :-/ I have spring fever after the last few warm days. Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 09:13:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:04:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'Linda Campbell'" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Price for Overhead projectoR (OPPS) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:05:07 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb10.657.0> Precedence: bulk Linda Jo, Sorry, I was thinking of an opaque projector. I have an overhead too but the bulb was much cheaper. Linda If it's a big heavy thing like the old school models, it is worth about $500 new. I bought one used about 20 years ago fdor $25 bucks. I've had to replace the bulb once. That was another $25 but it has been worth it. With the age of computers and scanners, I use it less but it's still a nice toy. Linda Campbell -----Original Message----- From: Linda Letscher [SMTP:andor@fair.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 4:46 PM To: bungi.com Subject: Price for Overhead projector I was out today and came across a overhead projector, the man bought from the local college. I didn't get the name of it but it is thing where you put your something down on it and it projects on a wall or screen or what have you. He said he would sell me one for $55.00 Is that a good price? I thought if it was a decent price I would use it to transfer or enlarge a patterns. Anyone have any input?? Thanks, Linda Jo ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 09:39:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:10:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Teaching and Liability Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:13:02 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb10.6132.0> Precedence: bulk I agree, get the form signed, it can't hurt. Most folks will understand. I signed one when I went to a fire walking seminar - made me understand that I was responisble for my own actions. Linda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 09:52:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:16:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: hotmail.com!agacic From: "Alex Gacic" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Printer review Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:14:53 PST Message-ID: <1999Feb10.161453.0> Precedence: bulk Hi, Byron I was interesting in that Canon printer too. But two things that seemed to bother me about it. 1. speed, it seemed to be pretty slow. 2. No tray for the 11 x 17 paper, so you have to manual feed the paper. I only looked at one at the store, I would be interested in getting your impressions about these two issues. Subject: Printer review Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:50:42 -0600 Reply Reply All Forward Delete Previous Next Close I've been looking for a larger printer to use with Glass Eye and such... Since most of my panels are sidelights,transoms,cabinet doors etc I wanted to be able to print them out on fewer sheets of paper.. I've been looking for several months at HPs and Epsons wider printers(they will accept up to 11x17 paper) but have been put off by the $500 price tag on them...The other day I was in Best Buy and they had a new Canon BJC-5000 for $199.... I tried the demo deal on it and it printed great on plain paper. I figgured for 199 it was worth a shot...I brought it home and it works great... Even does near photo quality with the optional cartridge... I can now do a quicky full size printout for my customers without so much taping together... Anyway if anyone has been looking for a larger printer without having to get a 2nd mortgage on the house ya cant beat this one... Byron... Wells Glassworks ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 10:55:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:44:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "Modiano, Victor" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------2EDC8D2B2334BDDBB381C6F2" Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability & First Aid Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:54:58 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb10.05458.0> References: <> Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk --------------2EDC8D2B2334BDDBB381C6F2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Based on what has happened to acquaintances, I would not only include the waiver but would also include a list of basic safety requirement. You know the ones: glass is sharp be careful; always use safety glasses with the grinder; don't inhale the fumes from the solder ... The waiver should be signed when they register for the class, it can actually be part of the registration form. Also make sure they get a copy of the safety rules. It should state that they have gotten it in the waiver. You should also get certified in basic first aid. That little card can carry a lot of weight in court when you have placed a Band-Aid on someone's finger. Bet you didn't know you could be sued for "miss-applying" a Band-Aid. Vic M. Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com Isn't it amazing how similar caution and paranoia have become? Great advice I agree. Touching on the first aid card I am certified in first aid and CPR. You do have rights if you help someone regarding first aid & you are certified. I wouldn't worry too much about that, I would worry about HIV and that risk. I always carry a small first aid kit that includes gloves & a mask. I wouldn't apply a bandage without gloves on. I certainly wouldn't administer CPR without a mask on. I don't care how big the cut is or how bad the heart attack is. This is just a reminder to all of you that you don't get near anyone who needs first aid without first putting gloves on. They can put the band aid on themselves or wait until I get my gloves on. You can purchase small first aid kits at medical supply shops. Thanks Vic and all of you for some great advice. Pam ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists Moswood Mountain Limited http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1 --------------2EDC8D2B2334BDDBB381C6F2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

Based on what has happened to acquaintances, I would not only include the waiver but would also include a list of basic safety
requirement. You know the ones: glass is sharp be careful; always use safety glasses with the grinder; don't inhale the fumes from
the solder ... The waiver should be signed when they register for the class, it can actually be part of the registration form.

Also make sure they get a copy of the safety rules. It should state that they have gotten it in the waiver.

You should also get certified in basic first aid. That little card can carry a lot of weight in court when you have placed a Band-Aid on
someone's finger.  Bet you didn't know you could be sued for "miss-applying" a Band-Aid.

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

Isn't it amazing how similar caution and paranoia have become?
 

Great advice I agree. Touching on the first aid card I am certified in first aid and CPR. You do have rights if you help someone regarding first aid & you are certified. I wouldn't worry too much about that, I would worry about HIV and that risk. I always carry a small first aid kit that includes gloves & a mask. I wouldn't apply a bandage without gloves on. I certainly wouldn't administer CPR without a mask on. I don't care how big the cut is or how bad the heart attack is.

This is just a reminder to all of you that you don't get near anyone who needs first aid without first putting gloves on. They can put the band aid on themselves or wait until I get my gloves on. You can purchase small first aid kits at medical supply shops.

Thanks Vic and all of you for some great advice.

Pam

*********************************

Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director
The Stained Glass Artists
http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists

Moswood Mountain Limited
http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited
http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1
  --------------2EDC8D2B2334BDDBB381C6F2-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 11:30:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:15:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!MD6868 From: MD6868@aol.com To: alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:13:03 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb10.18133.0> Precedence: bulk Although I do not have lawsuit involvement / prevention experience re glass, I do have extensive experience thereof, in another industry. I couldn't agree more with what Albert is telling you. In today's litigious climate, it is ESSENTIAL, not just prudent, to protect yourself, in that way. Again, as Albert points out, a hold -- harmless agreement won't protect you from anyone who is lawsuit minded, but it will make it much more difficult for them to prevail in a suit, once filed. If they've signed an agreement, they can't raise the notion that they weren't told, or warned. At the very least, this will help mitigate damages. Conversely, if you allow conditions to prevail that are unsafe, and are sued, all the waivers in the world won't keep you from paying. Remember, anyone can sue you. Making it difficult for them to win, is the name of the game. Richard Glassics Artglass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 12:50:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:21:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------1252DD55EC66E0028EDF773E" Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability & First Aid Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:23:33 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb10.42333.0> References: <<005e01be5544$040ab420$754daccf@hq6bx>> Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk --------------1252DD55EC66E0028EDF773E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I wouldn't apply a bandage without gloves on. I certainly > wouldn't administer CPR without a mask on. I don't care how > big the cut is or how bad the heart attack is. > Sorry, should have clarified the above. The CPR mask is what an EMT would use to administer CPR. It's a special mask with airway holes in it made of sterile thin plastic. You place the mask over the victims mouth, then start CPR. It protects both victim and resuscitator from health risks. The holes make it handy to get air in :) Pam > > > ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists Moswood Mountain Limited http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1 --------------1252DD55EC66E0028EDF773E Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I wouldn't apply a bandage without gloves on. I certainly wouldn't administer CPR without a mask on. I don't care how big the cut is or how bad the heart attack is.
Sorry, should have clarified the above. The CPR mask is what an EMT would use to administer CPR. It's a special mask with airway holes in it made of sterile thin plastic. You place the mask over the victims mouth, then start CPR. It protects both victim and resuscitator from health risks. The holes make it handy to get air in :)

Pam

 
 

*********************************

Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director
The Stained Glass Artists
http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists

Moswood Mountain Limited
http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited
http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1
  --------------1252DD55EC66E0028EDF773E-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 13:21:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:27:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: fidnet.com!dawnm From: "Dawn" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Disparity in Pricing Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:25:51 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb10.62551.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01BE5501.42D77FA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has anyone noticed a huge disparity in pricing on some stained glass = artists' web sites and "real-world" pricing? =20 I was recently researching pricing and was amazed at the prices listed = on some=20 of the sites. I considered the sites I found with pricing that figured = out to be=20 around $400 to $500 per square foot out of line, especially considering = the work.=20 But then I came across stainedglassart.com/panels which has prices that = figured=20 out to be between $700 and $1000 per square foot! (Interestingly = enough, the=20 artist admits that the "Carousel Ram" , whose price figures out to be = $956 per=20 square foot, is not an original design.) In discussions of pricing by the square foot, it seemed the majority of = those who responded were charging somewhere around $125 - $150 with variance for=20 complexity of the design. The project I am currently working on is a = little over 4=20 square feet, and averages 78 pieces *per* square foot, and if I were to = price it, I=20 was thinking around the $150 per s.f. range. =20 When someone has requested advice regarding pricing in the past, = primarily the=20 same people respond. Is it my limited knowledge and a very small cross = section=20 of bungi that has lead me to believe that the bungi responses were the = norm?? Dawn ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01BE5501.42D77FA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Has anyone noticed a huge disparity = in pricing=20 on some stained glass artists' web
sites and "real-world" = pricing? 
 
I was recently researching pricing = and was amazed at the prices listed on some =
of the sites.  I considered the sites I = found with=20 pricing that figured out to be
around $400 to=20 $500 per square foot out of line, especially considering the work. =
But then I came across=20 stainedglassart.com/panels which has prices that figured
out to be between $700 and $1000 per = square=20 foot!  (Interestingly enough, = the=20
artist admits that the = "Carousel Ram"=20 , whose price figures out to be $956 per=20
square foot, is not an original=20 design.)
 
In discussions of pricing by the = square foot, it=20 seemed the majority of those who
responded were charging somewhere around $125 - $150 with variance for =
complexity of the design.   The = project I am=20 currently working on is a little over 4
square feet, and averages 78 pieces *per* square foot, and if I were to price it, I =
was thinking around the $150 per s.f. range. 
 
When someone has requested advice = regarding=20 pricing in the past, primarily the
same people respond.  = Is it my limited knowledge and a very small = cross section=20
of bungi that has lead me to believe that the bungi responses were the = norm??
 
Dawn
------=_NextPart_000_0042_01BE5501.42D77FA0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 13:45:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:32:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cros.net!soraya From: "Soraya" To: "Pamela Burns-Tappan" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:11:43 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb9.91143.0> Precedence: bulk I just started taking a stained glass class several weeks ago and this was the first paper he had us signed. Since he also opens his shop two days a week for cheap community workshops (For $1.00 an hour you get to use his equipment and get help from him and the other artists that frequent (heck, they even have a potluck dinner once a week!!!)...anyway...because of this he also has a sign posted "Use At Your Own Risk" by the grinders and a few other places. It really is a good idea in this 'sue-happy, lawyer-filled' world.....it may not protect you from severe negligence on your part, (like that would be right!! ;) but it should prevent the scenario you describe. Take Care, Soraya ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ Soraya may be reached at... soraya@cros.net ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ Soraya's web site is currently undergoing reconstruction "The Witches' Thicket" may be found at... http://www.cros.net/soraya ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ "For Passionate People These Are Desperate Times, Desperate Measures Call For Passionate Crimes" --Michael Stanley ~)~)~)~)~)~)~)~)~)~)~)~)~)~)~) >Does anyone require their students to sign a waiver of liability. I am >gathering all of my pre-reg forms together and wondered if this might be >a good document to include. More of a take this class at your own risk >type of form I suppose I should have said. > >Yes I plan on teaching glass safety but I'm afraid of getting that one >person who gets a glass cut, no insurance and wants me to pay or worse >yet, sues the heck out of me. Does this concern anyone or am I being to >paranoid? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 15:04:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:14:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Dawn" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:08:43 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb10.6843.0> Precedence: bulk I believe that stained glass is worth what one person will sell it for and another will buy it for. Having said that I will comment on the prices found at http://www.stainedglassart.com . What a rip off! IMHO the work is poorly done and worth from $50.00 to $80.00 a square foot. Notice the run off lines. They are all over the place and would seem to indiciate a person that had little skill in cutting did the work. I am not anti run off line but think they should be used with GRACE. Not the case here. Also, it would seem that the work is foiled and that is not always the best selection for a panel. I am a fan of Spectrum glass but it IMO has been overly used in the windows at this site. There are far better glasses for the presented windows. True, they cost more but it seems that any fairly priced panel should have glass selected for the purpose and not for its low cost. Bob (who rarely charges more than $120.00 a square foot) >>Has anyone noticed a huge disparity in pricing on some stained glass = artists' web sites and "real-world" pricing? =20 I was recently researching pricing and was amazed at the prices listed = on some=20 of the sites. I considered the sites I found with pricing that figured = out to be=20 around $400 to $500 per square foot out of line, especially considering = the work.=20 But then I came across stainedglassart.com/panels which has prices that = figured=20 out to be between $700 and $1000 per square foot! (Interestingly = enough, the=20 artist admits that the "Carousel Ram" , whose price figures out to be = $956 per=20 square foot, is not an original design.) In discussions of pricing by the square foot, it seemed the majority of = those who responded were charging somewhere around $125 - $150 with variance for=20 complexity of the design. The project I am currently working on is a = little over 4=20 square feet, and averages 78 pieces *per* square foot, and if I were to = price it, I=20 was thinking around the $150 per s.f. range. =20 When someone has requested advice regarding pricing in the past, = primarily the=20 same people respond. Is it my limited knowledge and a very small cross = section=20 of bungi that has lead me to believe that the bungi responses were the = norm?? Dawn<< Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Please note new address of: bobdu@prodigy.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 15:48:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:18:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Dawn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:22:19 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb10.102219.0> References: <<1999Feb10.62551.0>> Precedence: bulk I am appalled at some of the things I see on the internet. I see stones straight out of The Tiffany Garden books, priced at $160, which I think $75-$100 would be more realistic. To top it off they used ugly glass! I figure they are hoping to get lucky. Just because they have it on their site listed for that price doesnt mean they have actually sold it at that price. Of course, I have sent some of *my* prospective buyers to some of these sites and they are happy happy to deal with me! ;o) It can work to our advantage. I really dont want to see them under pricing. I have been pricing my stuff at *about $2 per peice of glass...to get to what I consider a *fair* price both for myself and the consumer. This is why I *stopped* making 50 peice pavers at 8"x4", I figure no one in their right mind would pay for that...so my mom has those! Keep in mind, I have only been selling since early December. This is where I get 99.9% of my advice. Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 16:09:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:31:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Soraya Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:29:58 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb10.102958.0> References: <<1999Feb9.91143.0>> Precedence: bulk > Since he also opens his shop two days a week for cheap community workshops > (For $1.00 an hour you get to use his equipment and get help from him and > the other artists that frequent (heck, they even have a potluck dinner once > a week!!!)...anyway...because of this he also has a sign posted "Use At Your > Own Risk" by the grinders and a few other places. I think that sounds like a great deal for you and his other students. Beside having the benefit of his help available, you can use the tools and determine what you need to purchase now, what can wait, what you can live without! I am curious, does he teach you how to clean, maintain the equipment? That last time I was at my local glass shop, I walked through the area where they give classes and was amazed that they allowed their grinders to get soooooooo nasty before cleaning, and replacing water. Doesnt seem to give a very good example to their students. I think I would include the *care and feeding* of tools in my classes, were I to give them. Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 16:12:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:31:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Various threads Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:28:45 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb10.122845.0> Precedence: bulk Pricing....I have often commented on the prices I see in tourist towns and the prices I see around me in the real world...finished pieces in suppliers stores and at craft fairs. I suppose if you can get $700/sq ft, go for it! Bread...the best is mine own husband's oatmeal bread (so there. Not for sale in any store.) Bumper stickers...bumper stickers, dirt...it's that kind of stuff that holds my old car together. Art fair jurying...well, I don't do the BIG shows. The one show I do that requires slides knows me so well they just send me a "pre-accepted" form now. Many of the shows I do, I'm working with organizers that I've known for a long time. Cold...well, it snowed Sunday night. Today was in the 40's, tomorrow in the 50's (forecast), with Friday possibly at 60. This is New England in February? Why am I afraid we're going to pay for this? Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 16:16:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:55:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: Price for Overhead projector Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:06:04 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb10.1264.0> Precedence: bulk I agree Linda... that overhead projector is a steal.... I'd buy it in a heartbeat if it was in good shape. Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 16:34:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:32:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:31:31 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb10.133131.0> References: <<1999Feb10.6843.0>> Precedence: bulk Bob E Duchesneau wrote: > > I believe that stained glass is worth what one person will sell it for and > another will buy it for. Having said that I will comment on the prices found > at http://www.stainedglassart.com . What a rip off! IMHO the work is poorly > done and worth from $50.00 to $80.00 a square foot. Notice the run off > lines. They are all over the place and would seem to indiciate a person that > had little skill in cutting did the work. I am not anti run off line but > think they should be used with GRACE. Not the case here. Also, it would seem > that the work is foiled and that is not always the best selection for a > panel. > > I am a fan of Spectrum glass but it IMO has been overly used in the windows > at this site. There are far better glasses for the presented windows. True, > they cost more but it seems that any fairly priced panel should have glass > selected for the purpose and not for its low cost. > > Bob (who rarely charges more than $120.00 a square foot) > > >>Has anyone noticed a huge disparity in pricing on some stained glass = > artists' web > sites and "real-world" pricing? =20 > > I was recently researching pricing and was amazed at the prices listed = > on some=20 > of the sites. I considered the sites I found with pricing that figured = > out to be=20 > around $400 to $500 per square foot out of line, especially considering = > the work.=20 > But then I came across stainedglassart.com/panels which has prices that = > figured=20 > out to be between $700 and $1000 per square foot! (Interestingly = > enough, the=20 > artist admits that the "Carousel Ram" , whose price figures out to be = > $956 per=20 > square foot, is not an original design.) > > In discussions of pricing by the square foot, it seemed the majority of = > those who > responded were charging somewhere around $125 - $150 with variance for=20 > complexity of the design. The project I am currently working on is a = > little over 4=20 > square feet, and averages 78 pieces *per* square foot, and if I were to = > price it, I=20 > was thinking around the $150 per s.f. range. =20 > > When someone has requested advice regarding pricing in the past, = > primarily the=20 > same people respond. Is it my limited knowledge and a very small cross = > section=20 > of bungi that has lead me to believe that the bungi responses were the = > norm?? > > Dawn<< > > Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 > Please note new address of: bobdu@prodigy.net > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass yeah i've always thought the prices were way too high. the work isn't terribly advanced. i mean really 1200 bucks for a 18x20 window made of spectrum, about 20 pieces...please... goes up to $4500 for a 30" in kokomo... basically she's charging tiffany like prices, for work that is no where near that level. though on the plus side, i do like some of the boxes. though the prices are about 20 times higher then they should be.... i'm not really into a witch hunt, but this does make the art look bad. it's like a thimble painter charging $2000 per thimble. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 19:22:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:19:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ghostman.com!candy From: "Candy Thurman" To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Wed, 10 Feb 99 18:17:53 Message-ID: <199902110118.SAA09469@mantis.privatei.com> Precedence: bulk Okay, guys, you got me.. I went to the stainedglassart website, and though some things were interesting ,,, you're absolutely right about the prices!! where does she live that she can charge that and get it??? I only charge $75 a square foot, use the glass the window/piece calls for and charge extra only for bevels or painting/firing.. and not much at that.. and I still don't get much in the way of business! What's the saying? 'there ain't no justice' Candy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 19:52:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:39:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mindspring.com!pigznpawz From: "Jerri" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:34:01 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb10.15341.0> Precedence: bulk Would someone please explain what a run off line is? Jerri >I believe that stained glass is worth what one person will sell it for and >another will buy it for. Having said that I will comment on the prices found >at http://www.stainedglassart.com . What a rip off! IMHO the work is poorly >done and worth from $50.00 to $80.00 a square foot. Notice the run off >lines. They are all over the place and would seem to indiciate a person that >had little skill in cutting did the work. I am not anti run off line but >think they should be used with GRACE. Not the case here. Also, it would seem >that the work is foiled and that is not always the best selection for a >panel. > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 20:04:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:48:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:51:13 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb10.105113.0> Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk I believe that stained glass is worth what one person will sell it for and > another will buy it for. Having said that I will comment on the prices found > at http://www.stainedglassart.com . What a rip off! IMHO the work is poorly > done and worth from $50.00 to $80.00 a square foot. Notice the run off > lines. They are all over the place and would seem to indiciate a person that > had little skill in cutting did the work. I am not anti run off line but > think they should be used with GRACE. Not the case here. Also, it would seem > that the work is foiled and that is not always the best selection for a > panel. yeah i've always thought the prices were way too high. the work isn't terribly advanced. i mean really 1200 bucks for a 18x20 window made of spectrum, about 20 pieces...please... Bob and Mike if I may speak up here for some people who are thinking the same as me. The artist doesn't care what you think of her work or her prices. She has priced it how she feels fit. If you disagree that is fine but this isn't the place to post how lousy you think her art is or how over priced it may be. I know your voicing your opinion so goes the old saying, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Sorry but this thread really struck a nerve in me and I'm sure in others. Pam -- ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists Moswood Mountain Limited http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 21:35:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:37:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aracnet.net!bigcreek From: Wayne Parks To: Bob E Duchesneau Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 22:35:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb10.17358.0> References: <<1999Feb10.6843.0>> Organization: Big Creek Studio Precedence: bulk Bob E Duchesneau wrote: > > I believe that stained glass is worth what one person will sell it for and > another will buy it for. Having said that I will comment on the prices found > at http://www.stainedglassart.com . What a rip off! IMHO the work is poorly > done > > Bob: Right on, I think that Ms. K..... must be on something. Whatever it is I would love to get some. Then maybe I would have the nerve to charge those kind of prices also. I like the idea of saving that web site and sending prospective customers there. They would all come running back telling me what a great deal I was giving them. Oh well back to the studio....... Wayne Parks Big Creek Studio http://bigcreek.cjb.net To bring the dead to life Is no great magic. Few are wholly dead: Blow on a dead mans embers And a live flame will start. Robert Graves ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 21:41:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:48:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: eatumup.com!byronwells From: byronwells@eatumup.com (Byron Wells) To: "Alex Gacic" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Printer review Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:52:17 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb10.155217.0> Precedence: bulk Hey Alex.. Well I may not be up on the latest printer speeds but it is faster than my trusty HP 660c... With 2 ink carts in it its pretty fast in black mode...For faster color printing you put to multicolor carts in it...Very true about having to manually feed the 11x17 paper but for $300 difference in the price I can feed paper manually when needed...I've only been in business about 1 1/2 years so every penny counts to me.... Byron... Wells Glassworks -----Original Message----- From: Alex Gacic To: glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 6:03 AM Subject: Re: Printer review >Hi, Byron > >I was interesting in that Canon printer too. But two things that seemed >to bother me about it. 1. speed, it seemed to be pretty slow. 2. No >tray for the 11 x 17 paper, so you have to manual feed the paper. > >I only looked at one at the store, I would be interested in getting your >impressions about these two issues. > >Subject: Printer review >Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:50:42 -0600 >Reply Reply All Forward Delete Previous Next Close > >I've been looking for a larger printer to use with Glass Eye and such... >Since most of my panels are sidelights,transoms,cabinet doors etc I >wanted >to be able to print them out on fewer sheets of paper.. > >I've been looking for several months at HPs and Epsons wider >printers(they >will accept up to 11x17 paper) but have been put off by the $500 price >tag >on them...The other day I was in Best Buy and they had a new Canon >BJC-5000 >for $199.... I tried the demo deal on it and it printed great on plain >paper. I figgured for 199 it was worth a shot...I brought it home and it >works great... Even does near photo quality with the optional >cartridge... > >I can now do a quicky full size printout for my customers without so >much >taping together... > >Anyway if anyone has been looking for a larger printer without having to >get >a 2nd mortgage on the house ya cant beat this one... > >Byron... >Wells Glassworks > > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 22:12:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:52:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: eatumup.com!byronwells From: byronwells@eatumup.com (Byron Wells) To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Abrasive Blasting Pricing Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:56:13 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb10.155613.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks for the info folks... Byron.. -----Original Message----- From: Jak N Wolfy To: Byron Wells ; glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 2:58 AM Subject: Re: Abrasive Blasting Pricing >Byron, Start with a square foot price. 20., 30, 40, what ever where you live >would handle comfortably. Measure your pattern height and width from edges >of the pattern drawing. Ad 2 inches both directions and use that for your >dimensions. Add a certain percent for original artwork if it is....( make a >note somewhere that artwork is the property of artist and protect...you may >not have a copyright but it will scare some people off from copying your >work) If you're surface blasting go with that price . If it's stage >blasting and carving add a certain percent for 1 to 3 stage and a different >percent for mulit-stage and complexity. If you need to find a rough starting >point in your area for sq.ft. call someone and play dumb. Tell tham you have >a cabinet door frame that you want etched glass in and how much it would >cost..............................Jackie >> > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 10 22:27:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:32:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: emilie@earthlink.net Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: bottle glass Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 23:26:55 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb10.182655.0> Precedence: bulk There is a product called "spray A" that is supposed to prevent devitrification. (Never tried it). Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Tue, 09 Feb 1999 22:31:07 -0800 Emilie Golding writes: >I've been cutting up old bottles, melting them into freeform shapes, >and >then wrapping them with wire. > >The problem is I'm getting a lot of devitrification. To cover up the >scummy part, I've been sandblasting and tumbling the pieces (making >them >look like beach glass). > >Is there a way to fire bottle glass and get better results? I can't >seem >to find the best combination of temperature and time. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 01:37:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 22:23:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Jerri" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 22:21:20 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb10.142120.0> Precedence: bulk >>Would someone please explain what a run off line is? Jerri<< My defination of a run off line is a line that is added to a stained glass panel to make the work practical for cutting in stained glass. An example would be a lead line that extended the tip of a leaf to the border to make the cutting of the background glass practical. With care in the design these lines can be reduced in number or eliminated. When they are used it is nice if they seemed a natural part of the design and not stand out like sore thumbs. So.......... a run off line from a leaf will form a gracefull curve with the leaf. There may well be other names for run off lines but I do not recall them. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Please note new address of: bobdu@prodigy.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 04:08:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 03:12:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 05:22:08 +0000 Message-ID: <199902111015.FAA12242@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Okay, guys, you got me.. I went to the stainedglassart website, and though some things > were interesting ,,, you're absolutely right about the prices!! where does she live that > she can charge that and get it??? I only charge $75 a square foot, use the glass the > window/piece calls for and charge extra only for bevels or painting/firing.. and not much > at that.. and I still don't get much in the way of business! > > What's the saying? 'there ain't no justice' Charging a price is one thing. Getting it is another. Interesting to note the level of outrage (jealousy?) that those prices have engendered. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 04:38:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 04:02:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Pamela Burns-Tappan" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 23:34:21 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb10.153421.0> Precedence: bulk >>Bob and Mike if I may speak up here for some people who are thinking the same as me. The artist doesn't care what you think of her work or her prices.< Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 04:03:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep From: "Brian Shepherd" To: "Bob E Duchesneau" , "Bungi" , Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:09:09 -0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.899.0> Precedence: bulk Hello This is my second response on this thread - now that I've had a look at the famous site! Crucial words from Uncle Bob:- I believe that stained glass is worth what one person will sell it for and another will buy it for If this lady makes money with these products then good luck to her. I don't know enough about available patterns to say that her work is wholely original or not but it comes across as so. I certainly haven't seen boxes or lamps like hers any where else. Originality does count for something. This is the way 'Art' works. I have watched someone literally throw a pot of paint at a large canvas and sell the result for 5000 (I can't be bothered to work it out in Dollars!) I think what is at work here is a system of perceived values. When one of her customers looks at what they have purchased they think they have a piece of 'Art' and they love it. It's no good us calling ourselves Stained Glass Artists - it isn't the same! This market wants a bit extra - perhaps a bit of mystery about what it all means. Some people simply call themselves 'Artists' and jack their prices up. They aren't doing us a diservice but they are degrading the name of Artist. I take this moment to decline to define what Art is!!! I will say this though - with all due deference to Pam. Usually when I look at other peoples work I am a inspired and I get ideas. This didn't happen when I looked at this site. Make of that what you will. BtB ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 05:15:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 04:32:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Luanne6556 From: Luanne6556@aol.com To: byronwells@eatumup.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:30:27 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb11.123027.0> Precedence: bulk Any of you Bungians know of a web site that may have a legal form for the liability purpose? I had a very close call with a sheet of glass yesterday, fortunately I wasn't hurt badly. It did scare the bejesus out of me, I'm still shaking over that one. I will have any new students sign a release. Luanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 06:02:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 04:46:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!HiimLaura From: HiimLaura@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:45:20 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb11.124520.0> Precedence: bulk I think of it this way: There is right, and there is wrong. To blatantly overcharge a consumer who probably does not know the difference between mediocre and superior workmanship (and this includes quality of design, ie: flow of lines, placement of lines, etc.) is wrong. We as glassworkers can all estimate what the materials in one of those pieces cost to produce. I don't think I sensed jealousy in those previous posts, it was more like outrage. That's good. That shows there artists/craftsmen who care a great deal for the craft/medium and the way it is presented to the public. I happened upon that particular site about a year ago, and to tell you the truth, I also was quite surprised because the prices did not seem to mesh with the products. I think this is an interesting and improtant topic to discuss. As for picking out this particular website: why not? I would be quite interested in this particular person's response to justify her pricing. And like someone said (Bob?) said about if you can get that price form a consumer then that is what the glass is worth - well, I feel that is true too. I also thought that it was interesting to read in that same website that that person was seeking grants & funding for her work. Now, what about glass that is extremely underpriced? Examples? Just my 2 cents Laura P ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 06:24:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 05:07:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!SGriffiSBG From: SGriffiSBG@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE:Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:06:00 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb11.1360.0> Precedence: bulk I am really new and still working on my first project so I realize that discernment and level of expertise is extremely limited in my case. However, I went to that site and thought her work was beautiful. She may have a clientele in a large city (NYC or SanFran.) that is willing to pay that price (obviously or she wouldn't charge that much) But I did think her boxes- houses-were interestingly done. I enjoyed her work. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 06:24:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 04:47:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Luanne6556 From: Luanne6556@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; Subject: Fwd: Teaching and Liability Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:46:16 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb11.124616.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_918737176_boundary Content-ID: <0_918737176@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII --part0_918737176_boundary Content-ID: <0_918737176@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: Luanne6556@aol.com Return-path: To: MD6868@aol.com Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:45:36 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Gee Whizz........ on second thought maybe I will just give up teaching. I was paranoid to begin with, now my mind is racing with all kinds of bad thoughts. Maybe I will interview all prospective students, do a background check, ask for personal and professional references, etc. LOL --part0_918737176_boundary-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 06:42:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 05:17:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Luanne6556 From: Luanne6556@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; Subject: Fwd: Teaching and Liability Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:48:11 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb11.124811.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_918737292_boundary Content-ID: <0_918737292@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In a message dated 2/11/99 12:45:36 PM !!!First Boot!!!, Luanne6556 writes: << Gee Whizz........ on second thought maybe I will just give up teaching. I was paranoid to begin with, now my mind is racing with all kinds of bad thoughts. Maybe I will interview all prospective students, do a background check, ask for personal and professional references, etc. LOL >> --part0_918737292_boundary Content-ID: <0_918737292@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: Luanne6556@aol.com Return-path: To: MD6868@aol.com Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:45:36 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Gee Whizz........ on second thought maybe I will just give up teaching. I was paranoid to begin with, now my mind is racing with all kinds of bad thoughts. Maybe I will interview all prospective students, do a background check, ask for personal and professional references, etc. LOL --part0_918737292_boundary-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 07:15:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 05:40:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw From: "Granny And PawPaw" To: "bungi" , "Pamela Burns-Tappan" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:33:58 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.33358.0> Precedence: bulk Pam, I couldn't agree more. Arnold -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 11:29 PM Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing >I believe that stained glass is worth what one person will sell it for >and >> another will buy it for. Having said that I will comment on the prices >found >> at http://www.stainedglassart.com . What a rip off! IMHO the work is >poorly >> done and worth from $50.00 to $80.00 a square foot. Notice the run off > >> lines. They are all over the place and would seem to indiciate a >person that >> had little skill in cutting did the work. I am not anti run off line >but >> think they should be used with GRACE. Not the case here. Also, it >would seem >> that the work is foiled and that is not always the best selection for >a >> panel. > >yeah i've always thought the prices were way too high. the work isn't >terribly advanced. i mean really 1200 bucks for a 18x20 window made of >spectrum, about 20 pieces...please... > > > >Bob and Mike if I may speak up here for some people who are thinking the >same as me. The artist doesn't care what you think of her work or her >prices. She has priced it how she feels fit. If you disagree that is >fine but this isn't the place to post how lousy you think her art is or >how over priced it may be. I know your voicing your opinion so goes the >old saying, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything >at all. Sorry but this thread really struck a nerve in me and I'm sure >in others. > >Pam >-- >********************************* > >Pamela Burns-Tappan >Executive Director >The Stained Glass Artists >http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists > >Moswood Mountain Limited >http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited >http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1 > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 07:53:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 06:39:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: epix.net!"pmsl@epix.net" From: Paula Smith-Lane <"pmsl@epix.net"@epix.net> To: Bryce & Shirley Smith , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------6D63FB2DAE6001575E674100" Subject: [Fwd: VIRUS ALERT......] Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:36:20 -0500 Message-ID: <199902111436.JAA01994@lima.epix.net> Organization: Prefered Customer Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6D63FB2DAE6001575E674100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------6D63FB2DAE6001575E674100 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by berry.epix.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1a/1998081801/Philippe Levan) with ESMTP id SAA25809; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:48:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailhost.epix.net (tunk-70ppp34.epix.net [199.224.70.34]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.0/8.9.0/1998093001/Philippe Levan) with ESMTP id SAA13240; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:48:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36BF778B.D8B93CC0@mailhost.epix.net> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 18:47:24 -0500 From: "Eugene D. Colwell" Reply-To: genocol@epix.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: VIRUS ALERT...... Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: undisclosed-recipients:; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >VIRUS WARNING!!! >>=3D20 >> If you receive an email titled "It Takes Guts to Say 'Jesus'" DO NOT >> open it. It will erase everything on your hard drive. Forward this >> letter out to as many people as you can. This is a new, very >> malicious virus and not many people know about it. This information >> was announced yesterday morning from IBM; please share it with everyone >> that might access the Internet. Once again, pass this along to >> EVERYONE in your address book so that this may be stopped.=3D20 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: You won't believe this. A warning to all who travel alone - This story came from the "DailyTexan" - the University of Texas newspaper. Apparently it occurred during Fall Premier-a Uni tradition that is a celebration of the end of midterms. "Reason to not party anymore"- This guy went out last Saturday night to a party. He was having a good time, had a couple of beers and some girl seemed to like him and invited him to go to another party. He quickly agreed and decided to go along with her. She took him to a party in some apartment and they continued to drink, and even got involved with some other drugs (unknown which). The next thing he knew, he woke up completely naked in a bathtub filled with ice. He was still feeling the effects of the drugs, but looked around to see he was alone. He looked down at his chest, which had: "CALL 911 OR YOU WILL DIE" written on it in lipstick. He saw a phone was on a stand next to the tub, so he picked it up and dialed. He explained to the EMS operator what the situation was and that he didn't know where he was, what he took, or why he was really calling. She advised him to get out of the tub. He did, and she asked him to look himself over in the mirror. He did, and appeared normal, so she told him to check his back. He did, only to find two 9 inch slits on his lower back. She told him to get back in the tub immediately, and they would sent a rescue team over. Apparently, after being examined, he found out more of what had happened. His kidneys were stolen. They are worth 10,000 dollars each on the black market. (I was unaware this even existed.) Several guesses are in order: The second party was a sham, the people involved had to be at least medical students, and it was not just recreational drugs he was given. Regardless, he is currently in the hospital on life support, awaiting a spare kidney. The University of Texas in conjunction with Baylor University Medical Center is conducting tissue research to match the sophomore student with a donor. I wish to warn you about a new crime ring that is targeting business travelers. This ring is well organized, well funded, has very skilled personnel, and is currently in most major cities and recently very active in New Orleans. The crime begins when a business traveler goes to a lounge for a drink at the end of the work day. A person in the bar walks up as they sit alone and offers to buy them a drink. The last thing the traveler remembers until they wake up in a hotel room bath tub, their body submerged to their neck in ice, is sipping that drink. There is a note taped to the wall instructing them not to move and to call 911. A phone is on a small table next to the bathtub for them to call. The business traveler calls 911 who have become quite familiar with this crime. The business traveler is instructed by the 911 operator to very slowly and carefully reach behind them and feel if there is a tube protruding from their lower back. The business traveler finds the tube and answers, "Yes," The 911 operator tells them to remain still, having already sent paramedics to help. The operator knows that both of the business traveler's kidneys have been harvested. This is not a scam or out of a science fiction novel, it is real. It is documented and confirmable. If you travel or someone close to you travels, please be careful. Sadly, this is very true. My husband is a Houston Firefighter/EMT and they have received alerts regarding this crime ring. It is to be taken very seriously. The daughter of a friend of a fellow firefighter had this happen to her. Skilled doctor's are performing these crimes! (which, by the way have been highly noted in the Las Vegas area). Additionally, the military has received alerts regarding this. This story blew me away. I really want as many people to see this as possible so please bounce this to whoever you can. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Michele Shafer - DML/Lab Administration >>>>> >>>> Medical Manager Research & Development >>>>> >>>> 15151 N.W. 99th Street >>>>> >>>> Alachua, Florida 32615 >>>>> >>>> Tel. (904) 462-2148 >>>>> >>>> Fax (904) 462-1505 Is this not one of the scariest things you have ever heard of? >>>>> >>>> PLEASE forward this to everyone you know --------------6D63FB2DAE6001575E674100-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 08:15:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:11:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:11:02 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.5112.0> References: <<1999Feb10.142120.0>> Precedence: bulk Bob E Duchesneau wrote: > > >>Would someone please explain what a run off line is? > > Jerri<< > > My defination of a run off line is a line that is added to a stained glass > panel to make the work practical for cutting in stained glass. An example > would be a lead line that extended the tip of a leaf to the border to make > the cutting of the background glass practical. > > With care in the design these lines can be reduced in number or eliminated. > When they are used it is nice if they seemed a natural part of the design > and not stand out like sore thumbs. So.......... a run off line from a leaf > will form a gracefull curve with the leaf. > > There may well be other names for run off lines but I do not recall them. > Bob > > Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 > Please note new address of: bobdu@prodigy.net > oh that's a run off line. i was imagining a flattened solder line that dripped through at the edge. i ususally call them relief cuts, or break lines, or something like that. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 08:23:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 06:46:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: epix.net!"pmsl@epix.net" From: Paula Smith-Lane <"pmsl@epix.net"@epix.net> To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: RE: Virus alert..Sorry! Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:39:58 -0500 Message-ID: <199902111440.JAA02511@lima.epix.net> Organization: Prefered Customer Precedence: bulk I apologize to all. I only wanted to send the virus alert, not the nonsense that followed! Again, sorry. Paula ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 08:36:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 06:46:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep From: "Brian Shepherd" To: "Bob E Duchesneau" , "Bungi" , Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:35:31 -0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.143531.0> Precedence: bulk Hello again! (Third time!) The public, God bless 'em, are a perverse lot and seldom recognise real talent but if we don't identify it in ourselves and persist in underselling what we do then it has to be our fault at least in part! It is not reasonable to expect them to pass judgement on our workmanship - they are not qualified to do so. It is conmmon sense for us to sell as high as we can and hope that the public take the hint that what we are making is good. This lady must sell to somebody - of course she doesn't need to sell many pieces at those rates - but she would have dropped her prices if she was starving to death. Possibly her customers know nothing about stained glass ut they aren't required to are they! I'm always sad about disappearing standards of craftsmanship. It is a true indictment of our times. But when you come right down to it it is only the maker and his peers who know about that and the real travesty is that it doesn't seem to figure in the price in any way. We have to realise that people who pay that sort of money are simply not looking at how it's made - that is not what they are buying. My last word - the opinion be it ever so 'umble is my own! BtB -----Original Message----- From: Bob E Duchesneau To: Bungi ; Pamela Burns-Tappan Date: 11 February 1999 12:45 Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing >>>Bob and Mike if I may speak up here for some people who are thinking the >same as me. The artist doesn't care what you think of her work or her >prices.< >I bet she does care and will have something to say when this thread is sent >to her. When a person posts stained glass product for sale and gives a price >I believe it deserves comment. Would I buy it or not and why. Failure to >answer these questions makes discussion rather pointless. > >Most of us are here to learn and thereby form opinions. I have just >completed a very carefull review of the site and have only steeled my >OPINION that the work is way far over priced and not very good at that. Crap >is crap and failure to smell it and report it is not one of my short >comings. I will say the site is well designed and loads nicely. Bob > >Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 >Please note new address of: bobdu@prodigy.net > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 08:42:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 06:52:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: fair.net!andor From: "Linda Letscher" To: "bungi.com" Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:50:09 -0500 Message-ID: <199902111451.JAA19470@smtp.america.net> Precedence: bulk I had to put my 2 cents in here. First of all Pam, this is the place for discussion and open discussion helps all of us. I am pricing all my works right at a $1000.00 starting today. (Even my $30.00 Valentine heart) What the heck. (just a joke don't get excited) I have learned a lot by reading everyone's ideas and suggestions. Bungi is fairly free flowing and when I came to the page I didn't see any rules about what and what was not to be discussed, posted by Glenna. Second, this lady may have found a very specific nitch, like a Mafia enclave, a group of drug lords, family that has money coming out their ears, people in her very wealthy very small community that will pay inflated prices. Maybe she is using gold to solder, I don't have a clue. I have been in galleries in Beverly Hills, San Francisco and the like and have never seen works such as hers at that price. I have got to hand it to the woman if she is selling her wares for what she has posted. I feel an air of legitimacy as she posts her name and address on her page. The rule of thumb sometimes is what the market will bear. We can only sell at inflated prices if we can find someone to pay the inflated price. Hey!! anyone can have a web page. My hat is off to dear Leah!!! (what is the Spanish word? cahones or something like that?) Linda Jo -----Original Message----- From: Bob E Duchesneau To: Bungi ; Pamela Burns-Tappan Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 7:49 AM Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing >>>Bob and Mike if I may speak up here for some people who are thinking the >same as me. The artist doesn't care what you think of her work or her >prices.< >I bet she does care and will have something to say when this thread is sent >to her. When a person posts stained glass product for sale and gives a price >I believe it deserves comment. Would I buy it or not and why. Failure to >answer these questions makes discussion rather pointless. > >Most of us are here to learn and thereby form opinions. I have just >completed a very carefull review of the site and have only steeled my >OPINION that the work is way far over priced and not very good at that. Crap >is crap and failure to smell it and report it is not one of my short >comings. I will say the site is well designed and loads nicely. Bob > >Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 >Please note new address of: bobdu@prodigy.net > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 08:57:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 06:53:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu Feb 11 06:52:02 1999 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.4302.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE55CC.607F3E96 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I will freely admit that I have been guilty of overcharging as outrageously as at the infamous http://www.stainedglassart.com . The difference is that unless the idiot, who we will call BJ, was dumber than a doornail he knew he was being overcharged. BJ and I never liked each other and when he was quoted a price five times higher than anyone else he said fine. Yes my "Artistic Integrity" is for sale but it ain't cheep!!! Who are we to criticize if the artist can get those prices. My own opinion is that she probably offers big discounts or deals with people who have more money than brains. A company I once consulted for paid $3000 each for works titled A, B and D. One was a construction paper circle on a construction paper background of a contrasting color. The other two were a triangle and square. I don't begrudge the "artist" who collected the money. My only complaint is that they didn't come to me for a competitive bid. (I'd have done all three is glass for a mere $5000.) Also for the record Suzanne de Tulsa is right. This is the perfect site to send clients to who think they are being overcharged. Vic M. Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE55CC.607F3E96 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Disparity in Pricing

I will freely admit that I have been = guilty of overcharging as outrageously as at the infamous http://www.stainedglassart.com.

The difference is that unless the = idiot, who we will call BJ,  was dumber than a doornail he knew he = was being overcharged. BJ and I never liked each other and when he was = quoted a price five times higher than anyone else he said fine. Yes my = "Artistic Integrity" is for sale but it ain't cheep!!! =

Who are we to criticize if the artist = can get those prices. My own opinion is that she probably offers big = discounts or deals with people who have more money than brains. =

A company I once consulted for paid = $3000 each for works titled A, B and D. One was a construction paper = circle  on a construction paper background of a contrasting color. = The other two were a triangle and square. I don't begrudge the = "artist"

who collected the money. My only = complaint is that they didn't come to me for a competitive bid. (I'd = have done all three is glass for a mere $5000.) 

Also for the record Suzanne de Tulsa = is right. This is the perfect site to send clients to who think they = are being overcharged.

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE55CC.607F3E96-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 09:02:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:22:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:21:23 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.52123.0> References: <<199902111015.FAA12242@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis wrote: > > > Okay, guys, you got me.. I went to the stainedglassart website, and though some things > > were interesting ,,, you're absolutely right about the prices!! where does she live that > > she can charge that and get it??? I only charge $75 a square foot, use the glass the > > window/piece calls for and charge extra only for bevels or painting/firing.. and not much > > at that.. and I still don't get much in the way of business! > > > > What's the saying? 'there ain't no justice' > > Charging a price is one thing. Getting it is another. Interesting to > note the level of outrage (jealousy?) that those prices have > engendered. > > Albert > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the only way i can see her asking for those prices would be for one or all of the following: 1. she was a famous person in her field. like an actor, or someone like chiuly. he does'nt even make the stuff he directs other's to make stuff. and you woulf expect to see the higher prices, but the stuff does look profesional. 2. if she used a special glass. dichroic, youg., some art glass (any art glass), hand made, etc. she used spectrum, and kokomo, nothing terribly special. 3. if it was a complex piece. that snake panel, no bigger then half of a door, $7500. if the snake was actually cut into tiny pieces of glass, i could understand the high price. but it was'nt, it was foil overlayed, "a process she says wouldn't look right as seperate pieces". which is'nt true it would look more varied, and it would'nt be the lazy persons, out. primarily it's just alot of gall. it reminds me of the story of an ex-husband of a friend of mine. he was at a craft show once, and saw all the expensive stained glass. he throught, "hey i could do that". he took a few classes. made stuff in his kitchen then tried to sell it. the problem was, that he was a slob, the pieces look like a 4 year old made them, and he tried to charge 5 times what a profesional would charge. he thought, just because it's stained glass people would shell out the money regardless how it looks. or how well it's made. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 09:13:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:34:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:35:07 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.5357.0> Precedence: bulk Ya gets what ya pays for....? A sucker born every minute....? It pays to shop around....! Linda Campbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 09:25:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:45:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Bob E Duchesneau Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:42:34 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.34234.0> References: <<1999Feb10.153421.0>> Precedence: bulk > I bet she does care and will have something to say when this thread is sent > to her. She may well be a lurker on this list, and be aware of the discussion. Of course if my work was being critiqued...I'd say something about it. 'Course, as we all know, I'm not one to keep my mouth shut!;o) Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 09:37:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:57:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: fair.net!andor From: "Linda Letscher" To: "bungi.com" Subject: Stained Glass in Mosque Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:34:09 -0500 Message-ID: <199902111535.KAA24393@smtp.america.net> Precedence: bulk Did anyone happen to watch King Hussein's funeral? I happen to catch part of it, and was looking at the wonderful glass behind the casket and people stepping up to pay honor to the dead King. I kept watching hoping that the camera would pan around and let us see more of the wonderful work. I guess this was a private mosque in the palace. I was wondering who did it, and what the window depected... Guess I will never know. Linda Jo ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 09:51:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:50:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:56:49 +0000 Message-ID: <199902111650.LAA15630@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Any of you Bungians know of a web site that may have a legal form for the > liability purpose? Glad you're all right, Luanne. I used the search engine at http://askjeeves.com to find "waiver of liability" -- these could be reworked to your purpose: http://www.smsg.org/Waiver.htm http://www.maboli.com/seva/lohgarh/waiver.html Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 10:10:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:51:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE:Disparity in Pricing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:56:49 +0000 Message-ID: <199902111650.LAA14735@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > I went to that site and thought her work was beautiful. She may have a > clientele in a large city (NYC or SanFran.) that is willing to pay that price Nope, although everyone in those cities can see her site. She's Kopcsandy, Leah (STAINEDGLASSART-DOM) 306 West Bridge Street Morrisville, PA 19067-2302 Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 10:15:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:53:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cros.net!soraya From: "Soraya" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:50:25 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.65025.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BE55B4.B6A51920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable They have a potluck in a stained glass studio??? Now there's a liability case just waiting to happen... lead poisoning, anyone? Yipes. Not really....the studio and the room they use to eat in are very much seperate. The food and the glass/lead never meet. Needless to say, I am sure everyone washes their hands as well. The = owner is very safety conscience and 'stress' the dangers of working with lead. Take Care, Soraya ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BE55B4.B6A51920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
They have a potluck in a stained glass studio??? Now there's a=20 liability
case just waiting to happen... lead poisoning, = anyone? =20 Yipes.


Not really....the studio and the room they use to eat = in are=20 very much
seperate.  The food and the glass/lead  never=20 meet.
Needless to say, I am sure everyone washes their hands as=20 well.    The owner
is very safety conscience and = 'stress' the=20 dangers of working with lead.
 
Take Care,
Soraya
------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BE55B4.B6A51920-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 10:33:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:20:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!MD6868 From: MD6868@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: NG - German Anyone ? Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:19:18 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb11.171918.0> Precedence: bulk Hi All, Thanks to those of you who responded. I thought I'd said this, but then got distracted. Ginny is happily off the the license plate frame engraver. We'll share the finished product. Richard Glassics Artglass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 10:45:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:31:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Disparity in Pricing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:35:54 +0000 Message-ID: <199902111729.MAA15239@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > for a competitive bid. (I'd have done all three is glass for a mere $5000.) It's true: some clients simply prefer to pay top dollar. I proposed for a very complicated web site at $7,500. The client opted for UUNet ('cause they advertise on TV?) at $50,000. The final site was full of spelling errors, bad links, and so on. The client later told me he could *never get hold of anyone at UUNet, etc. (great customer service, eh?). They'd've been better off with me as a web developer 'cause I at least answer the phone. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 10:59:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:06:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: VIRUS ALERT......] Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:12:05 +0000 Message-ID: <199902111705.MAA15457@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk "Guts to Say Jesus" Hoax is not a virus and is a hoax. It is a sham, meant only to panic new or inexperienced computer users. > >> Forward this > >> letter out to as many people as you can. On the other hand, forwarding the message to as many people as you can jams up email servers, clogs everyone's hard drives, etc. If you receive a virus alert, go to any search engine and look up "virus alert" to see if it's true or a hoax before notifying anyone else. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 11:15:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:37:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!PDRUSS From: PDRUSS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:20:09 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb11.17209.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/11/99 8:09:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, bshep@dircon.co.uk writes: << I take this moment to decline to define what Art is!!! I will say this though - with all due deference to Pam. Usually when I look at other peoples work I am a inspired and I get ideas. This didn't happen when I looked at this site. Make of that what you will. BtB >> I just heard this the other day but I forgot who said it. :( "A man who works with his hands is a laborer. A man who works with his hands and head is a craftsman. A man who works with his hands, head and heart is an artist." Dianne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 11:16:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:38:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu Feb 11 09:37:50 1999 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.71550.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE55E3.0CD0E44A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" My favorite quote from Robert Heinlien is: "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." Vic M. Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com -----Original Message----- From: Linda Campbell [mailto:lcbell@memach.com] Sent: Thursday, February 11, 1999 10:35 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Disparity in Pricing Ya gets what ya pays for....? A sucker born every minute....? It pays to shop around....! Linda Campbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE55E3.0CD0E44A Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Disparity in Pricing

My favorite quote from Robert Heinlien = is: "Never underestimate the power of human = stupidity."

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

      -----Original = Message-----
      From:   Linda Campbell = [mailto:lcbell@memach.com]
      Sent:   Thursday, February 11, 1999 10:35 AM
      To:     glass@bungi.com
      Subject:       = RE: Disparity in Pricing

      Ya gets what ya pays for....?
      A sucker born every = minute....?

      It pays to shop around....!

      Linda Campbell

      ----
      For subscription changes, please mail = to: glass-request@bungi.com
      To send to the = list,      please mail to: = glass@bungi.com
      Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE55E3.0CD0E44A-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 11:32:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:40:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------BDE4C7D9F3A28DEAC022C427" Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:42:30 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.14230.0> References: <<000001be5592$14fa80a0$8c669cd1@default>> Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk --------------BDE4C7D9F3A28DEAC022C427 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob E Duchesneau wrote: > >>Bob and Mike if I may speak up here for some people who are thinking the > same as me. The artist doesn't care what you think of her work or her > prices.< > I bet she does care and will have something to say when this thread is sent > to her. When a person posts stained glass product for sale and gives a price > I believe it deserves comment. Would I buy it or not and why. Failure to > answer these questions makes discussion rather pointless. > > Most of us are here to learn and thereby form opinions. I have just > completed a very carefull review of the site and have only steeled my > OPINION that the work is way far over priced and not very good at that. Crap > is crap and failure to smell it and report it is not one of my short > comings. I will say the site is well designed and loads nicely. Bob > > Comments and lack of respect for a fellow artist are two different issues. I > felt a sincere lack of respect regarding this artist. I agree that comments > are important, don't get me wrong. It's the way the comment is presented in > this forum. We have no idea as to why prices are the way they are for some > artists. Artistry goes beyond the limits of materials, workmanship that is why > we call it art or so I thought. How many people went to that site to check it > out and made judgements? Secondly, many artists that don't access the world wide web and have been in business for years don't price based on someone else's prices, they don't care. They price by materials, workmanship etc. I would never send someone to the stated site and "say if you really want to see overpriced go here". That is absolutely appalling to me. Telling someone to check around to find the best artist they are comfortable with is what I will usually say. This thread to me has shown some true colors in some and I am just disgusted. Raise your prices if you don't feel your getting what your worth. Obviously the aforementioned artist has and I bet she is loving every minute of it! Pam -- ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists Moswood Mountain Limited http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1 --------------BDE4C7D9F3A28DEAC022C427 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob E Duchesneau wrote:
>>Bob and Mike if I may speak up here for some people who are thinking the
same as me. The artist doesn't care what you think of her work or her
prices.<<snip<<

I bet she does care and will have something to say when this thread is sent
to her. When a person posts stained glass product for sale and gives a price
I believe it deserves comment. Would I buy it or not and why. Failure to
answer these questions makes discussion rather pointless.

Most of us are here to learn and thereby form opinions. I have just
completed a very carefull review of the site and have only steeled my
OPINION that the work is way far over priced and not very good at that. Crap
is crap and failure to smell it and report it is not one of my short
comings. I will say the site is well designed and loads nicely. Bob

Comments and lack of respect for a fellow artist are two different issues. I felt a sincere lack of respect regarding this artist. I agree that comments are important, don't get me wrong. It's the way the comment is presented in this forum. We have no idea as to why prices are the way they are for some artists. Artistry goes beyond the limits of materials, workmanship that is why we call it art or so I thought. How many people went to that site to check it out and made judgements?

Secondly, many artists that don't access the world wide web and have been in business for years don't price based on someone else's prices, they don't care. They price by materials, workmanship etc. I would never send someone to the stated site and "say if you really want to see overpriced go here". That is absolutely appalling to me. Telling someone to check around to find the best artist they are comfortable with is what I will usually say. This thread to me has shown some true colors in some and I am just disgusted. Raise your prices if you don't feel your getting what your worth. Obviously the aforementioned artist has and I bet she is loving every minute of it!

Pam

 

--
*********************************

Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director
The Stained Glass Artists
http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists

Moswood Mountain Limited
http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited
http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1
  --------------BDE4C7D9F3A28DEAC022C427-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 11:33:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:41:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass in Mosque Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:46:36 +0000 Message-ID: <199902111739.MAA16085@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > of it, and was looking at the wonderful glass behind the casket It's actually been posited that the earliest "stained glass" was let into openings in stucco surrounds in the Middle East. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 11:39:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:26:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:31:28 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.23128.0> References: <<1999Feb11.5357.0>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk I think who ever did her web site goofed and added an extra 0 to all of her prices. Speaking of. I like seeing the price of an item beside that item. I don't like having to look around the site to see what the price is. What do the rest of you think about that? Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 11:56:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:59:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: socent.org!atf From: "ATF Distribution Center-K. See" To: Linda Letscher Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Stained Glass in Mosque Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:58:19 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.75819.0> References: <<199902111535.KAA24393@smtp.america.net>> Organization: SOC Enterprises Precedence: bulk Linda Letscher wrote: > Did anyone happen to watch King Hussein's funeral? I happen to catch part > of it, and was looking at the wonderful glass behind the casket and people > stepping up to pay honor to the dead King. I kept watching hoping that the > camera would pan around and let us see more of the wonderful work. I guess > this was a private mosque in the palace. I was wondering who did it, and > what the window depected... Guess I will never know. > Linda Jo > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 11:56:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:05:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: fidnet.com!dawnm From: "Dawn" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Original Intent of Message Re: Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:00:34 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.4034.0> Precedence: bulk Just like any other form of communication, with e-mail we sometimes stray from the original question and get caught up in the resulting controversy. Before we waste time in a dispute I'd like to turn this back to the crux of my question: >When someone has requested advice regarding pricing in the >past, primarily the same people respond. Is it my limited >knowledge and a very small cross section of bungi that has lead >me to believe that the bungi responses were the norm?? My reason for asking about the "normal" prices charged is very simple, and not based in jealousy. I am a hobbyist and do not sell anything I create. What I create I create for my own enjoyment. Having said that, I am running out of room at home and I am going to move some of my larger panels to my office. If someone should approach me and want something I made, I would not object to letting them have it for a *fair* price since that will just allow me to buy more glass. Therefore, I thought I should at least have a *fair* pricing structure in mind. Now I know we have had discussions in the past about how under- valuing your work is not just detrimental to you, but to other glass artists. I happen to pay the mortgage with a paycheck from a salaried position. So, if I let go of a piece for the cost of the materials and a small pittance for my time, what does that do to the other serious glass artists that are struggling with the blood, sweat and tears of actually trying to make a living doing this? (It is only through my exposure to bungi that I came to realize this.) Likewise if I price based on comparison of prices on websites and I overprice the item, yes, I just might sell it to someone who would unknowingly pay the inflated price. But that's not something I would want to do, especially to business associates I will be working with for years. So we're back to what is a fair price in the real-world. Therefore, I do believe discussions on undervaluing/overpricing do have a place. This is evidently a contentious subject that might just be best dropped. The fact that we inevitably end up comparing apples and oranges doesn't help. You just can't compare the value of the caliber of work done by Dani, Howard, Bob Oddy and other distinguished artists to the level of work I produce. That is why I specified a particular site, because it was more run-of-the-mill and wasn't painted and fired, plated with layers, full of bevels and wasn't Tiffany-style lamps. Thank you to those that replied to me with pricing suggestions. I use Bungi as a learning tool, and I certainly wouldn't mind hearing solicited critiques of particular pieces. It might help those of us still in the learning process. I am in the process of designing a new window and would be interested to hear the advice, suggestions and even the criticisms on it. I'm willing to offer it up for your unabashed opinions when completed. Dawn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 12:01:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:02:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Luanne6556 From: Luanne6556@aol.com To: nadinesfolly@erols.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:52:24 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb11.185224.0> Precedence: bulk My big scare of the week........I was unloading sheets of glass from a crate and cutting the sheets up for a smaller storage bin. I was working practically naked in sandals, shorts and a tank top, it is 80 degrees here. So you all can picture what happened. I was careless (although I didn't even realize what I was doing) and picked up a full sheet from a flat surface across the short end at about 1/3 of the way up AND the sheet just snapped in half, right in my hands. The end closer to me scraped down my entire left side before it hit the floor. The crash was noisy and drew a crowd. I have a large scrape on my left arm, several cuts on my left leg and ankle and a big piercing in my right palm. But most of all, I am reminded of how serious this could have been, could have hit a major artery or required stitches. I am still thinking of all the glass people I know with major scars from glass injuries and think I narrowly escaped this time. Today I went to work in closed shoes, long sleeves and pants and a renewed respect for glass. All this in the wake of all the Bungi talk of student injury and lawsuits, and this happened to me a "PROFESSIONAL". SAFETY FIRST. LUANNE ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 12:06:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:15:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Luanne6556 From: Luanne6556@aol.com To: alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:07:31 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb11.19731.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/11/99 5:52:24 PM !!!First Boot!!!, alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net writes: Albert, Thank you for finding the waiver info. I have bookmarked both sites for future students. Luanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 12:25:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:24:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:29:57 +0000 Message-ID: <199902111923.OAA16857@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > "A man who works with his hands is a laborer. > A man who works with his hands and head is a craftsman. > A man who works with his hands, head and heart is an artist." Yes, and a person who decides into which of the three above categories someone *else fits is a critic. (If you decide that about yourself, it's something different.) Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 12:49:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:07:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: socent.org!atf From: "ATF Distribution Center-K. See" To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: House & Garden article Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:06:11 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.9611.0> Organization: SOC Enterprises Precedence: bulk March issue of H & G has an article on Toots Zynsky's fused bowls. Check it out. Beautiful & interesting K See ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 12:53:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:14:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Luanne6556 From: Luanne6556@aol.com To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:59:03 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb11.18593.0> Precedence: bulk Suzanne, Seriously, I have been teaching since 1980 without any release forms. I must say that I have met the nicest people through teaching and have established long term friendships with many students. It is wonderful to share the love of glass and to see new students fall in love with glass. I always say to a bleeding student "Now you can honestly say you have put your blood, sweat and tears into this project." LUANNE ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 13:02:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:40:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet From: "Karen K." To: "Bungi List" Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:40:07 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.9407.0> Precedence: bulk My 2 worth. I suspect this woman is an Excellent Salesperson. I think one reason she able to get these high prices has as much to do with "selling herself" as it does selling her work. Would you buy insurance or a car you really liked from a salesman you didn't care for? I wouldn't. All top salespeople have one thing in common, the ability to sell themselves. Karen >Ya gets what ya pays for....? >A sucker born every minute....? > >It pays to shop around....! > >Linda Campbell > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 13:08:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:48:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY From: JJKIRBY@aol.com To: bshep@dircon.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:40:47 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb11.194047.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/11/99 5:09:08 AM Pacific Standard Time, bshep@dircon.co.uk writes: << I believe that stained glass is worth what one person will sell it for and another will buy it for >> That certainly is the bottom line. Stained glass is also a craft which means that anyone can do it. Using a pattern and glass recommendations will result in an appealing product. Because of this fact, there will always be a huge variance both price and quality. Another reality is that most people are poorly equipped to judge quality in stained glass. Good marketing suggests people by sizzle not hogs. The result is that a stained glass craftsperson with marginal skill and excellent self promotion can do well - however it's probably true in many fields of endeavor. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 13:34:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:51:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'PDRUSS@aol.com'" , "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:53:14 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.95314.0> Precedence: bulk I think, as a group we should be able to dish out criticism as well as praise. We were quick to praise Robert Oddy's work when we found it and rightly so. I don't think anyone would have thought twice had they seen similar price tags on Oddy's work because his work was clever, good, original and pleasing art. The woman on the site in question takes the same pattern, makes it several times for different folks and still calls it "original". If I were to have paid her price for an "original", I'd be real ticked off the see the same thing - different color - in my friend's home. Not much worry here for me though. Even if I won the lottery, there are plenty of others' works I pay for first! Linda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 13:36:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:55:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY From: JJKIRBY@aol.com To: HiimLaura@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:48:54 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb11.194854.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/11/99 6:02:50 AM Pacific Standard Time, HiimLaura@aol.com writes: << There is right, and there is wrong. To blatantly overcharge a consumer who probably does not know the difference between mediocre and superior workmanship (and this includes quality of design, ie: flow of lines, placement of lines, etc.) is wrong. >> Excuse me, but our entire capitalistic system is based on this premise. The market decides price. There is no monopoly on stained glass. Consumers can shop around, educate themselves and make wise purchases. That's why we call it a "free" market. We're talking truth, justice and the American Way. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 13:44:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:23:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Pamela Burns-Tappan" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:16:04 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.4164.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BE55B8.4BF76340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>How many people went to that site to check it out and made = judgements?<< Here is the link: http://www.stainedglassart.com Check it out. On = page 1 go to the lady in red and click on it to enlarge. Having done = that, just look at her head. The run off lines make her grotusque in = IMO. Check out that parasol, again looks like basic beginner work IMO. = Check out the text and see if you get that message fron the pic. = $3500.00! IMO this panel is not worth the cheap glass it is made from. I = would say that the basic materials have lost value by being used in this = way. Go to the lamp section. At first sight the grape lamp looked good. Click = it up to larger size and note that it is a four sided lamp. I would = expect it to at least be made on a rounded form. $3500.00! I think not = but it is still a nice item for a home craft. Go over the boxes. Pretty=3D yes. $500.00=3D no way. No wonder the maid = broke them! I believe that much can be learned from this site and no one need be = offended. Am I crying sour grapes because I can not get these prices? I think not = because I would not long consider such a misuse of client trust.=20 Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Please note new address of: bobdu@prodigy.net ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BE55B8.4BF76340 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>>How many people went to that = site to=20 check it out and made judgements?<<
 
Here is the link: http://www.stainedglassart.com   =20 Check it out. On page 1 go to the lady in red and click on it to = enlarge. Having=20 done that, just look at her head. The run off lines make her grotusque = in IMO.=20 Check out that parasol, again looks like basic beginner work IMO. Check = out the=20 text and see if you get that message fron the pic. $3500.00! IMO this = panel is=20 not worth the cheap glass it is made from. I would say that the basic = materials=20 have lost value by being used in this way.
 
Go to the lamp section. At first sight the grape = lamp looked=20 good. Click it up to larger size and note that it is a four sided lamp. = I would=20 expect it to at least be made on a rounded form. $3500.00! I think not = but it is=20 still a nice item for a home craft.
 
Go over the boxes. Pretty=3D yes. $500.00=3D no way. = No wonder the=20 maid broke them!
 
I believe that much can be learned from this site = and no one=20 need be offended.
 
Am I crying sour grapes because I can not get these = prices? I=20 think not because I would not long consider such a misuse of client=20 trust.
 
Bob
 
Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow = Stained Glass=20 92026
Please note new address of:  bobdu@prodigy.net
------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BE55B8.4BF76340-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 13:52:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:04:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!PDRUSS From: PDRUSS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: [Fwd: VIRUS ALERT......] Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:59:25 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb11.195925.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/11/99 1:59:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net writes: << > >> Forward this > >> letter out to as many people as you can. On the other hand, forwarding the message to as many people as you can jams up email servers, clogs everyone's hard drives, etc. >> Can we say SPAM? :) Dianne >^..^< ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 13:59:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:26:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: socent.org!atf From: "ATF Distribution Center-K. See" To: Linda Letscher , "bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Stained Glass in Mosque Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:25:02 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.10252.0> References: <<36C31A3B.5B86D695@socent.org>> Organization: SOC Enterprises Precedence: bulk My message was lost...This is what I said I too noticed the windows and thought of bungi and knew you were all trying like me to see as much detail the tv allowed. :) K See ATF Distribution Center-K. See wrote: > Linda Letscher wrote: > > > Did anyone happen to watch King Hussein's funeral? I happen to catch part > > of it, and was looking at the wonderful glass behind the casket and people > > stepping up to pay honor to the dead King. I kept watching hoping that the > > camera would pan around and let us see more of the wonderful work. I guess > > this was a private mosque in the palace. I was wondering who did it, and > > what the window depected... Guess I will never know. > > Linda Jo > > > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 14:03:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:27:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Pamela Burns-Tappan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:29:39 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.82939.0> References: <<1999Feb11.14230.0>> Precedence: bulk > I would never send someone to the stated > site and "say if you really want to see overpriced go here". That is absolutely appalling to me. Telling someone to check around > to find the best artist they are comfortable with is what I will usually say. That was not at all what I said. You misunderstood me. No one had complained about my prices. And I didnt send them to other sites to price compare. I sent them to see what people were doing with stones. I never once said..."Look at their prices and compare them to mine." I will stand by the statement, that it doesnt bother me a bit for people to see that my prices are not only fair, but my work is quality work... I said to *you* folks, that it doesnt bother me at all that their work was (in my opinion) over priced. Not only were my prices better, but so was my quality. I will be the first to tell even a potential buyer that a particular stone is not my best work, and I *will not* charge full price for something that isnt top quality. I can back that up with names and phone numbers of people that I wouldnt take full price from.. Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 14:21:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:42:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:41:47 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.104147.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Brian- When it comes to defining art, I always like to start with the dictionary= . = When one looks up the words "art" and "artist", one will find some inherent concepts that offer very good = guidelines for the judging. A simple exercise, but very very enlightening. ;-) best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 14:32:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:43:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:41:55 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.104155.0> Precedence: bulk Okay, could someone post this gal's URL again so I can look up the site. = I'm dying of curiosity now! ;-) Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 14:47:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:44:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu Feb 11 12:42:25 1999 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.102025.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE55FD.4E1FDB30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Albert Hate to disagree with you but it seems she has roots in $P$R$I$N$C$E$T$O$N$ NJ. (The dollar signs are silent but always present.) The area code suggests that she moved across the river to Pa. Knowing Princeton her prices begin to make sense. For those who don't know the area I'll try to explain. Princeton is a historic, read pre-revolution, town. Currently it's population falls into four main groups. Old time residents who bought their homes prior to 1970 and are being forced out due to escalating prices and taxes. University students; a fairly transient group. Senior university professors and administrators. Newer residents who can afford the escalated prices and think name brands are always better than unknowns. Most of this last group are of the type Albert mentioned. They would rather brag about a mediocre piece that cost $5000 than a quality piece that cost $500. I should explain that I spent a lot of time in the area in the late '70s and 80's. Most of the time was spent with people in the first group. Most of their homes predate the WWII building boom and had some beautiful architectural features. Most of them were also retired or approaching it. As housing prices rose properties were reassessed and many long time residents were facing taxes higher than the mortgage. One couple would be paying about one half of the purchase price each year in taxes. (They bought the house in 1946 with his military back pay as the down payment.) Families were forced to sell homes of 20 plus years and move to more affordable areas. The people who bought these houses were mostly yuppies and those of inherited wealth. People to whom status is important and money is how status is measured. Those who survived the recession of the late 80's now have more money than they know what to do with. As I said they look at the price tag; if it is expensive it must be good. If I sound a little bitter toward the new residents it is because I am. Friend and neighbors were now scattered across the country. They turned historic old building into modern structures. Something like tearing down a 100 year old church and erecting a glass and chrome building in its place. Both have there place but the old world beauty is lost. One last description and I'll get off my soapbox. Take the high price sections of Manhattan put them in a small area of New Jersey and you have Princeton. Vic M. Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis [mailto:alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net] Sent: Thursday, February 11, 1999 6:57 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE:Disparity in Pricing > I went to that site and thought her work was beautiful. She may have a > clientele in a large city (NYC or SanFran.) that is willing to pay that price Nope, although everyone in those cities can see her site. She's Kopcsandy, Leah (STAINEDGLASSART-DOM) 306 West Bridge Street Morrisville, PA 19067-2302 Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE55FD.4E1FDB30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Disparity in Pricing

Albert

Hate to disagree with you but it seems = she has roots in $P$R$I$N$C$E$T$O$N$ NJ. (The dollar signs are silent = but always present.) The area code suggests that she moved across the = river to Pa.

Knowing Princeton her prices begin to = make sense. For those who don't know the area I'll try to explain. =

Princeton is a historic, read = pre-revolution, town. Currently it's population falls into four main = groups. Old time residents who bought their homes prior to 1970 and are = being forced out due to escalating prices and taxes. University = students; a fairly transient group. Senior university professors and = administrators.  Newer residents who can afford the escalated = prices and think name brands are always better than unknowns. Most of = this last group are of the type Albert mentioned. They would rather = brag about a mediocre piece that cost $5000 than a quality piece that = cost $500.

I should explain that I spent a lot of = time in the area in the late '70s and 80's. Most of the time was spent = with people in the first group. Most of their homes predate the WWII = building boom and had some beautiful architectural features. Most of = them were also retired or approaching it. As housing prices rose = properties were reassessed and many long time residents were facing = taxes higher than the mortgage.  One couple would be paying about = one half of the purchase price each year in taxes. (They bought the = house in 1946 with his military back pay as the down payment.) Families = were forced to sell homes of 20 plus years and move to more affordable = areas.

The people who bought these houses = were mostly yuppies and those of inherited wealth. People to whom = status is important and money is how status is measured. Those who = survived the recession of the late 80's now have more money than they = know what to do with. As I said they look at the price tag; if it is = expensive it must be good.

If I sound a little bitter toward the = new residents it is because I am. Friend and neighbors were now = scattered across the country. They turned historic old building into = modern structures. Something like tearing down a 100 year old church = and erecting a glass and chrome building in its place. Both have there = place but the old world beauty is lost.

One last description and I'll get off = my soapbox. Take the high price sections of Manhattan put them in a = small area of New Jersey and you have Princeton.

 
Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

      -----Original = Message-----
      From:   Albert Lewis [mailto:alewis@alpha.nad.ad= elphia.net]
      Sent:   Thursday, February 11, 1999 6:57 AM
      To:     glass@bungi.com
      Subject:       = RE:Disparity in Pricing


      > I went to that site and thought = her work was beautiful.  She may have a
      > clientele in a large city (NYC = or SanFran.) that is willing to pay
      that price

      Nope, although everyone in those = cities can see her site. She's

      Kopcsandy, Leah = (STAINEDGLASSART-DOM)
         306 West Bridge = Street
         Morrisville, PA = 19067-2302


      Albert
      ----
      For subscription changes, please mail = to: glass-request@bungi.com
      To send to the = list,      please mail to: = glass@bungi.com
      Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE55FD.4E1FDB30-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 14:54:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:45:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Shirley Balloch" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:41:32 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.44132.0> Precedence: bulk >>I like seeing the price of an item beside that item. I don't like having to look around the site to see what the price is. What do the rest of you think about that? Shirley B<< I too like to see the price of an item conviently displayed. When it is not I tend to wonder if it is to high for what is being offered. When I am asked to enquire for pricing I simply press my close button. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Please note new address of: bobdu@prodigy.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 14:57:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:30:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Original Intent of Message Re: Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:27:35 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.112735.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Dawn- Whatever you sell your work for, it's important to remember that you're raising the visibility of glass art. The more glass out there, the more it's in the consciousness of the public. Folks often complain about all the off-shore glass being imported... I say, bring it on! The more merchants who stock glass, the more places I can refer customers. I can'= t meet demand in my town... we're at a point where we've had to specialize and raise our prices to cull our market. And, I'm running out of studios= to send people to, because we're all so swamped. And, because of it, we'= re losing customers... people are finding alternatives to stained glass because our S.G. industry here can't meet the demand. We could use about= three studios that do nothing but affordable cabinet doors, beveled entries, etc. Nothing fancy... just straightforward, attractive architectural glass. There are four decent studios in this town (includi= ng us, and we specialize in liturgical glass now and kiln-fired glass painting), 500,000 in the county expected to grow to 900,000 population b= y the year 2010. Is there some opportunity here, do you think??!! And, yo= u should see the honker houses they're building with tons of huuugggge windows! Especially over the bath tubs! If only 1% of the population decided they needed obscuring stained glass over their tubs, that would b= e 5,000 commissions for four studios. Uh huh, we'd have to hire the entire= bungi group to meet the demand! You see my point... the opportunity is there if the industry as a whole raises its visibility. Does that make sense? So don't protect your own turf! Get together with= a few other glass artists and run a big ad together and promote the art... it'll mean more business for everyone! Competition is good for everybody= . = And, just for the record, so is controversy. No need to be afraid of tha= t either .... as long as everyone is respectful to each other. I still thi= nk Albert is wrong about government funding of the arts, but I respect and adore him anyone. He's still my friend.... even if he is wrong. (duckin= g quickly and running for cover..... ;-0!) By the way, Dawn, the crucifixio= n window is Michael's... giving credit where it's due. Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 15:11:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:31:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!PDRUSS From: PDRUSS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: o/t multiple copies of the same piece of art. was Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:13:47 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb11.211347.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/11/99 2:50:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, lcbell@memach.com writes: << If I were to have paid her price for an "original", I'd be real ticked off the see the same thing - different color - in my friend's home. >> I haven't done any "fine glass" shows but I've been to some 2D art shows (not as an artist) that tell you that you can't have multiple copies of the same piece of art. Then you go in and look at the show and see the same piece of art in photo prints, laser prints or whatever in different sizes. When I asked about that, I was told that different sizes or different coping methods count as "different pieces" even if the subject is the exact same thing. You can have: one 5x7 laser print, one 8x10 laser print , one 11x14 laser print, so on & so on of the same piece of art. And also have one 5x7 photo print one 8x10 photo print ............ And they are all "different pieces" no multiples. I don't understand that. Dianne >^..^< ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 15:21:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:31:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:27:31 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.112731.0> Precedence: bulk THANK YOU for sharing that Luanne... anyone who has had a "close call" ha= s endless and forever respect for the material. It only takes a few second= s to sever all the tendons in your hand or chop off your toes... sorry to b= e graphic, but it's always a very real possibility when handling large shee= ts of glass. It doesn't take much to end a glass career. Don't be stupid. = Be safe. Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 15:29:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:42:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Disparity in Pricing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:48:04 +0000 Message-ID: <199902112141.QAA18803@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > The woman on the site in question takes the same > pattern, makes it several times for different folks and still calls it > "original". If I were to have paid her price for an "original", I'd be > real ticked off the see the same thing - different color - in my friend's > home. Wait a minute! She said the pieces are original, not unique. If she designed and built them, they're original. She didn't say there are no others like them. I have a Marc Chagall print that's original. Sure, he printed hundreds of them, but it's still from his hand and I value it for that. (Don't get all impressed; I paid like $15 for it 30 years ago.) Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 15:31:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:52:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: wasatch.com!edge From: edge@wasatch.com (Brian Edginton) To: glass@intrastar.net Content-Type: text Subject: Re: Stained glass for sale Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:51:38 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: References: <<00a801be5605$ea689420$ca839cd1@default>> Precedence: bulk Bob D writes: > > On another list we are discussing the merits of the stained glass at: = > http://www.stainedglassart.com =20 > Merits? I think not, rather the tone of the thread has been to trash the work and bash the audacity of the artist who charges those prices. > It might prove interesting to check out this site and comment on the = > offerings. Bob I hope this list shows a bit more restraint. -- Brian Edginton | edge@wasatch.com Edginton and Associates | http://www.wasatch.com/~edge/ Systems Consulting | 801.567.0740 | Opinions expressed are... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 15:50:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:01:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: usa.net!jenfrisbee From: Jennifer Frisbee To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Advice on first tools Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:01:00 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.610.0> Precedence: bulk Hi...I just joined on a few weeks ago, but I have already learned a lot from the artisans on this list! Quick question...I am a new student, but plan on becoming a serious hobbyist. I am looking at buying my first grinder and band saw, and was interested in the PowerKits modular system featured in the Inlaid catalog. Has anyone had any experience with this set? I have been told by some that it is not available in the U.S. yet, while another man said he could get it for me if I wanted to order it. Is it a good deal for the money, or do you have a better recommendation for a newbie? ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 16:08:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:40:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:42:29 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.64229.0> Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk I've pondered all the points well made. My initial reaction to the critical post, was to me it was border line slamming. That is was "irked my tater" as my daughter would say. Criticism is healthy yes, over pricing hey we have all done it one time or another. It was the way the post was presented in the first place, it was the way I personally interpreted it. Bob and all you were merely being brutally honest with your opinions and I'm not saying that I don't disagree with some of them. This is a tough business we're in it's a challenge for all of us. But I would like to keep criticism of someone's work to a respectful level here on bungi. If I misunderstood anyone, tulsa suzanne etc. I apologize. Typing when irritated and tired is not my best call lately as I can see :) It's also my german blood that gets me in trouble. Maybe it's time for a glass of wine, a break from classes, a break from the E-Tour schedule and some popcorn. And mentioning the E-Tour just now. I will say that we are working our tail ends off and it will be the event of the year, well one of the events of the year :) Pam -- ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists Moswood Mountain Limited http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 16:13:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:44:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ticnet.com!rjlcon From: "Jak N Wolfy" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:49:46 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.104946.0> Precedence: bulk Luanne, That sounds about like the classes in my shop. I've taught for about 6 years and when a new student cuts their finger the first time, I usually congratulate them, tell them that they are now an official stained glass person and hand them a band-aid. I've never had the first problem with anyone getting upset with it. Jackie -----Original Message----- From: Luanne6556@aol.com To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com ; glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 3:04 PM Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability >Suzanne, > Seriously, I have been teaching since 1980 without any release forms. I >must say that I have met the nicest people through teaching and have >established long term friendships with many students. It is wonderful to >share the love of glass and to see new students fall in love with glass. I >always say to a bleeding student "Now you can honestly say you have put your >blood, sweat and tears into this project." > >LUANNE >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 16:53:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:53:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: prices Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:52:22 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.125222.0> Precedence: bulk Okay, I've fully perused the site and have decided that I am going to make some more business card holders and charge...um...$150 each. I'm worth it. I'm in the process of setting up spring craft fairs and deciding what to make for them. Have to have something new and fresh, y'know. But I also need those business card holders, so I'll be searching through my scrap boxes. Also have designed a square foot abstract panel to use up some of the bevels I have around. It's no sense hording them, is it? John's made a nice oak frame for it. Then there's the mosaic I designed (no, I will never do KISS again!) of a covered bridge. New England, you know. Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 16:54:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:59:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Dawn" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Original Intent of Message Re: Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:55:46 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.65546.0> Precedence: bulk >>My reason for asking about the "normal" prices charged is very simple, and not based in jealousy. I am a hobbyist and do not sell anything I create. What I create I create for my own enjoyment. Having said that, I am running out of room at home and I am going to move some of my larger panels to my office. If someone should approach me and want something I made, I would not object to letting them have it for a *fair* price since that will just allow me to buy more glass. Therefore, I thought I should at least have a *fair* pricing structure in mind.<< It is very hard to give an estimate for a stained glass panel when the cartoon, materials and workmanship are not known. Assuming that you do reasonably good work I would judge a panel like the red lady at: http://www.artglass.com to be worth from $200.00 to $300.00. If your panel is more complex, then the price should go up. If your soldering is below average- then let the low end be your guide. The referenced panel would seem to have about $75.00 worth of material involved. Making a profit over cost of material alone of $125.00 to $225.00 should fit. I know a man who worked in colored plexiglass by a most unusual technique that he invented. He priced one of his panels of King Tut at $15,000.00 to ensure that it would not sell. It did. And he was not overly happy. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Please note new address of: bobdu@prodigy.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 17:20:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:12:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Bob E Duchesneau Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:15:54 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.111554.0> References: <<1999Feb11.44132.0>> Precedence: bulk I figure if the price isnt listed it falls into the catagory of "If you have to ask the price, you can't afford it" Suzanne Bob E Duchesneau wrote: > > >>I like seeing the price of an item beside that item. I don't like > having to look around the site to see what the price is. > What do the rest of you think about that? > Shirley B<< > > I too like to see the price of an item conviently displayed. When it is not > I tend to wonder if it is to high for what is being offered. When I am asked > to enquire for pricing I simply press my close button. Bob > > Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 > Please note new address of: bobdu@prodigy.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 17:37:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:21:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Bob E Duchesneau" , Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:18:30 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.131830.0> Precedence: bulk I checked out the site, and Bob, you're so correct about those run-off lines on the red lady's hat. The pink lady with the tree in the upper le= ft corner is a much better design. Try not to use those break-lines, folks,= they're kind of amateurish... you don't need them, or at least they're no= t that obvious, with a good design. My guess is the pricing is a case of wishful thinking.... nothing wrong with that! I seriously doubt she has a lot of customers at that price level, though. In my neck of the woods, that caliber of work goes for between $50 - $100 s.f. , not much more. However, if you do that kind of= work, and are charging less than $50 s.f., you're under-pricing yourself.= = Yes, you can lose business that way.... lots of it, because your customer= will wonder if you know what your talking about! ;-) Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 17:41:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:24:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:03:30 -0800 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Hi all, Maybe I should keep my mouth shut BUT here's my 2 cents, hmmm, I can't find that cents key any where...grin. I have seen the Canadain government spend 5 million dollars on a single piece of art as described by Brian (although he probably hasn't seen or heard of it,...grin)... I wasn't asked if I wanted to buy it, but appears that I have. And I've also seen 12 lines sandblasted for a price tag of $25,000.00...wish it had been me, but wasn't. I know of someone else getting religious paintings done for 75.00 sq.ft and then he charges 800.00 sg.ft to cut some glass for it...this I do find funny, but it's true. So if anyone can sell a 20 piece window for 1200.00...so what, it certainly doesn't bother me. (I'm working on a piece (32 pieces)...*all spectrum glass* and the price is 900.00, the fellow is happier than H*LL with the price.) But it sure is *sad* to see folks jump on someone's else work and say it's sh*t. And charges too much. I'd truely be horridified (SP)...can't spell worth beans! My opinion is....I guess if she can pull it off...all the power to her. I'm having more troubles understanding how a guy in Vancouver,BC can sell towels for 100.00 @ piece and more???...he's making a killing at it both in Canada and the USA!!! Cindy...who swore she was going to be quiet because she didn't *fully* read the last negative thread, but this kinda struck a nerve also. Have a GOOD day guys...grin! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 17:46:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:28:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!stainglasborzoi From: stainglasborzoi@webtv.net (GLORIA DRAG) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Arab Doors Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:27:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1999Feb11.132737.0> Precedence: bulk Recently there were a few lines relating to the stained glass seen at the funeral of King Hussien.. This reminded me of a book I bought at the beginning of my adiction to stained glass.. The book is James Hubbell's Palace Doors of Abu Dhabi.. His work of art with stained glass and/or carved wood is magnificent... Fire motiffs made from red bevels,peacocks, a dove of jewels.. Wish I could share these photos with bungi.. Gloria ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 18:00:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:54:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:52:33 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.135233.0> Precedence: bulk -------------Forwarded Message----------------- From: Dani Greer, = To: Pamela Burns-Tappan, INTERNET:ptap@pacifier.com = Date: 2/11/99 12:29 PM RE: Re: Disparity in Pricing I disagree, Pam. I think this is exactly the place to point out that the= Emporer's new clothes, well, are a bit scant. Artists through the ages have always known that when you place your work in the public square, you= set yourself up for criticism... or praise. Both sides of the coin are part of the game. Best regards, Dani Greer (who's survived many a critique... good and bad.) www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 18:06:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:55:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Albert Lewis Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Fine Arts Crafts shows Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:58:24 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.115824.0> References: <<199902112141.QAA18803@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk Anyone here that has done many fine arts/crafts shows ever met or know Larry Greer, watercolor artist? Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 18:10:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:08:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Jennifer Frisbee Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:08:40 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.14840.0> References: <<1999Feb12.610.0>> Precedence: bulk Jennifer Frisbee wrote: > > Hi...I just joined on a few weeks ago, but I have already learned a lot from the artisans on this list! > > Quick question...I am a new student, but plan on becoming a serious hobbyist. I am looking at buying my first grinder and band saw, and was interested in the PowerKits modular system featured in the Inlaid catalog. > > Has anyone had any experience with this set? I have been told by some that it is not available in the U.S. yet, while another man said he could get it for me if I wanted to order it. > > Is it a good deal for the money, or do you have a better recommendation for a newbie? > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass inland grinders are good, but there saws are not. as a begginer i would get the grinder (the biggest one you can afford). mine is a wizard from inland. the bandsaw i would recommend is the gemini ringsaw. but you really don't need one. 98% of all cuts can be and really should be done by hand. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 18:25:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:15:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: soltec.net!tamis From: "Tami Siddens" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: liability Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:17:07 -0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.18177.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BE55EA.BBEC8220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 I certainly understand the concern about liability release - seems a = certain amount of paranoia comes with aging. Found a site that might be = helpful, it's a fill in the blank type, but will need some changes for = class purposes. http://reslife.tamu.edu/dived/guide96/Release.htm=20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BE55EA.BBEC8220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
   
    I=20 certainly understand the concern about liability release - seems a = certain=20 amount of paranoia comes with aging.  Found a site that might be = helpful,=20 it's a fill in the blank type, but will need some changes for class=20 purposes.  http://resli= fe.tamu.edu/dived/guide96/Release.htm=20
------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BE55EA.BBEC8220-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 18:29:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:19:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:18:31 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.141831.0> Precedence: bulk Well Vic, I hate to disagree with you.....but I know of what I speak. In fact we are working on a Catholic Church in Princeton and the folks there are pretty dollar smart. And artwise too. I don't think she is fooling anyone but herself with those prices. People who collect glass and would pay those prices for artwork aren't buying her work. Sorry. But its true. I would love to talk with her "clients", they are probably relatives. I also like the fact she is looking for grant money......lol. Someone who sells for those prices is not in need of any grant money. Large commissions maybe.....grant money Nope. my best, pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 6:25 PM Subject: RE: Disparity in Pricing >This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand >this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. > >------_=_NextPart_001_01BE55FD.4E1FDB30 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > >Albert > >Hate to disagree with you but it seems she has roots in $P$R$I$N$C$E$T$O$N$ >NJ. (The dollar signs are silent but always present.) The area code suggests >that she moved across the river to Pa. > >Knowing Princeton her prices begin to make sense. For those who don't know >the area I'll try to explain. > >Princeton is a historic, read pre-revolution, town. Currently it's >population falls into four main groups. Old time residents who bought their >homes prior to 1970 and are being forced out due to escalating prices and >taxes. University students; a fairly transient group. Senior university >professors and administrators. Newer residents who can afford the escalated >prices and think name brands are always better than unknowns. Most of this >last group are of the type Albert mentioned. They would rather brag about a >mediocre piece that cost $5000 than a quality piece that cost $500. > >I should explain that I spent a lot of time in the area in the late '70s and >80's. Most of the time was spent with people in the first group. Most of >their homes predate the WWII building boom and had some beautiful >architectural features. Most of them were also retired or approaching it. As >housing prices rose properties were reassessed and many long time residents >were facing taxes higher than the mortgage. One couple would be paying >about one half of the purchase price each year in taxes. (They bought the >house in 1946 with his military back pay as the down payment.) Families were >forced to sell homes of 20 plus years and move to more affordable areas. > >The people who bought these houses were mostly yuppies and those of >inherited wealth. People to whom status is important and money is how status >is measured. Those who survived the recession of the late 80's now have more >money than they know what to do with. As I said they look at the price tag; >if it is expensive it must be good. > >If I sound a little bitter toward the new residents it is because I am. >Friend and neighbors were now scattered across the country. They turned >historic old building into modern structures. Something like tearing down a >100 year old church and erecting a glass and chrome building in its place. >Both have there place but the old world beauty is lost. > >One last description and I'll get off my soapbox. Take the high price >sections of Manhattan put them in a small area of New Jersey and you have >Princeton. > >Vic M. >Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Albert Lewis [mailto:alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net] > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 1999 6:57 AM > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: RE:Disparity in Pricing > > > > I went to that site and thought her work was beautiful. >She may have a > > clientele in a large city (NYC or SanFran.) that is >willing to pay > that price > > Nope, although everyone in those cities can see her site. >She's > > Kopcsandy, Leah (STAINEDGLASSART-DOM) > 306 West Bridge Street > Morrisville, PA 19067-2302 > > > Albert > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: >glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >------_=_NextPart_001_01BE55FD.4E1FDB30 >Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > >charset=3Diso-8859-1"> >5.5.2448.0"> >RE: Disparity in Pricing > > > >

Albert >

> >

Hate to disagree with you but it seems = >she has roots in $P$R$I$N$C$E$T$O$N$ NJ. (The dollar signs are silent = >but always present.) The area code suggests that she moved across the = >river to Pa.

> >

Knowing Princeton her prices begin to = >make sense. For those who don't know the area I'll try to explain. = > >

> >

Princeton is a historic, read = >pre-revolution, town. Currently it's population falls into four main = >groups. Old time residents who bought their homes prior to 1970 and are = >being forced out due to escalating prices and taxes. University = >students; a fairly transient group. Senior university professors and = >administrators.  Newer residents who can afford the escalated = >prices and think name brands are always better than unknowns. Most of = >this last group are of the type Albert mentioned. They would rather = >brag about a mediocre piece that cost $5000 than a quality piece that = >cost $500.

> >

I should explain that I spent a lot of = >time in the area in the late '70s and 80's. Most of the time was spent = >with people in the first group. Most of their homes predate the WWII = >building boom and had some beautiful architectural features. Most of = >them were also retired or approaching it. As housing prices rose = >properties were reassessed and many long time residents were facing = >taxes higher than the mortgage.  One couple would be paying about = >one half of the purchase price each year in taxes. (They bought the = >house in 1946 with his military back pay as the down payment.) Families = >were forced to sell homes of 20 plus years and move to more affordable = >areas.

> >

The people who bought these houses = >were mostly yuppies and those of inherited wealth. People to whom = >status is important and money is how status is measured. Those who = >survived the recession of the late 80's now have more money than they = >know what to do with. As I said they look at the price tag; if it is = >expensive it must be good.

> >

If I sound a little bitter toward the = >new residents it is because I am. Friend and neighbors were now = >scattered across the country. They turned historic old building into = >modern structures. Something like tearing down a 100 year old church = >and erecting a glass and chrome building in its place. Both have there = >place but the old world beauty is lost.

> >

One last description and I'll get off = >my soapbox. Take the high price sections of Manhattan put them in a = >small area of New Jersey and you have Princeton.

> >

  >
Vic M. >
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com >

> > > >------_=_NextPart_001_01BE55FD.4E1FDB30-- >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 18:47:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:21:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:11:14 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb12.01114.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/11/99 2:40:42 PM, balloch@netbridge.net wrote: >I like seeing the price of an item beside that item. I don't like >having to look around the site to see what the price is. >What do the rest of you think about that? I'm with you. The first thing I look for on anything I'm even vaguely interested in is the price tag, so I know if it's in my "do-able" price range or if it would be futile to even think about it (in which case I don't care to waste my time OR the pushy sales rep's discussing it!!!!!!!!!!). IMO, anyone who won't give you a price up-front either has something to hide or is otherwise trying to mess with your head. That goes for everything from Ginsu knives to vacuum cleaners to encyclopedias to real estate to objets d'art in a gallery (or a web site). Of course, that's assuming there's a set price - we all know that some things, like "asking prices" on real estate, are negotiable, but that number had better be there! If it's an auction situation, I want to see appraisal and minimum opening bid info right off the bat. Sparks, feeling even feistier than usual today.......... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 18:50:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:23:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!PDRUSS From: PDRUSS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:15:29 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb12.01529.0> Precedence: bulk The other side of the coin (as pointed out by my husband) We have long talked of trying to do craft shows. I like to make small things like boxes. He says we should at least have a few big things to draw in the customers. OK, I said, "what? " He responses was, "We could make that fireplace screen we have long talked about for ourselves and then just take it to "show." If someone tries to buy it we could put this truly outrageous price on it. That will turn them off and if they still want it for what price, we just take the $$$$ and make ourselves a new one." :) Dianne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 19:00:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:52:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Pamela Burns-Tappan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: websites and Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:55:57 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.125557.0> References: <<1999Feb11.64229.0>> Precedence: bulk > the event > of the year, well one of the events of the year :) Drinking my nightly wine, Pam, I say come on over girlfriend, there is plenty for both of us! I can honestly say the E tour will be the event of the year for me! ;o) Thanks for all the hard work you guys are doing. I am excited. Sorry I havent gotten back to any of you as to where I gonna be able to catch it... now to change the subject... I am slowly starting to change over my family website to my glass website (if I could only get my ISP to cooperate). Several have told me they have never expected their websites to generate $$ for their checkbook (forget savings). What I am asking, of you with glass/studio etc...websites.. Do you get new buyers from your website? Assuming people like what they see there....what can I expect? Should I just expect to be able to write off my ISP $ on my taxes? A place to send potential clients for an online portfolio? Or...can I expect to generate sales? Or can I expect a public critique? ;o) Thanks. Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 19:12:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:31:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cyberportal.net!dmj From: "Dean Johnson" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Stained Glass in Mosque Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:29:18 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.142918.0> References: <<199902111535.KAA24393@smtp.america.net>> Precedence: bulk Linda Jo wrote: > this was a private mosque in the palace. I was wondering who did it, and > what the window depected... I believe Islamic law forbids the use of pictorial representations in a mosque, so the design must be geometric. Elizabeth Johnson dmj@cyberportal.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 19:12:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:35:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!PDRUSS From: PDRUSS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:25:28 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb12.02528.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/11/99 5:49:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@aol.com writes: << The people who bought these houses were mostly yuppies and those of inherited wealth. People to whom status is important and money is how status is measured. >> So, it's OK to take advantage of them? Sorry, my conscience wouldn't let me. Dianne >^..^< ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 19:23:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:59:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "bungi group" , "Pamela Burns-Tappan" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:58:34 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.145834.0> Precedence: bulk Good evening Pam, The problem being with someone charging outrageous prices for mediocre work is that it gives all glass artists a bad name. And I personally think people have a right to question mediocre work. Just my personal opinion. my best, pj Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 7:51 PM Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing >I've pondered all the points well made. My initial reaction to the >critical post, was to me it was border line slamming. That is was "irked >my tater" as my daughter would say. Criticism is healthy yes, over >pricing hey we have all done it one time or another. It was the way the >post was presented in the first place, it was the way I personally >interpreted it. > >Bob and all you were merely being brutally honest with your opinions and >I'm not saying that I don't disagree with some of them. This is a tough >business we're in it's a challenge for all of us. > >But I would like to keep criticism of someone's work to a respectful >level here on bungi. If I misunderstood anyone, tulsa suzanne etc. I >apologize. Typing when irritated and tired is not my best call lately as >I can see :) It's also my german blood that gets me in trouble. Maybe >it's time for a glass of wine, a break from classes, a break from the >E-Tour schedule and some popcorn. And mentioning the E-Tour just now. I >will say that we are working our tail ends off and it will be the event >of the year, well one of the events of the year :) > >Pam > >-- >********************************* > >Pamela Burns-Tappan >Executive Director >The Stained Glass Artists >http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists > >Moswood Mountain Limited >http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited >http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1 > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 19:25:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:01:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "Everyone" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:59:05 -0500 Message-ID: <199902120059.TAA17125@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 2/11/99 3:41 PM Dani Greer GreerStudios@compuserve.com >Hi Brian- > >When it comes to defining art, I always like to start with the dictionary= >. = > >When one looks up the words "art" and "artist", >one will find some inherent concepts that offer very good = > >guidelines for the judging. A simple exercise, but very very >enlightening. ;-) > Yes it was Dani - here's the one that grabbed me: the conscious use of skill and creative imagination esp. in the production of aesthetic objects - also - works so produced. Thanks!!! Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 19:32:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:29:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Pricing stained glass Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:26:56 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.92656.0> Precedence: bulk This post has the correct URL, I think! Bob >>My reason for asking about the "normal" prices charged is very simple, and not based in jealousy. I am a hobbyist and do not sell anything I create. What I create I create for my own enjoyment. Having said that, I am running out of room at home and I am going to move some of my larger panels to my office. If someone should approach me and want something I made, I would not object to letting them have it for a *fair* price since that will just allow me to buy more glass. Therefore, I thought I should at least have a *fair* pricing structure in mind.<< It is very hard to give an estimate for a stained glass panel when the cartoon, materials and workmanship are not known. Assuming that you do reasonably good work I would judge a panel like the red lady at: http://www.stainedglassart.com to be worth from $200.00 to $300.00. If your panel is more complex, then the price should go up. If your soldering is below average- then let the low end be your guide. The referenced panel would seem to have about $75.00 worth of material involved. Making a profit over cost of material alone of $125.00 to $225.00 should fit. I know a man who worked in colored plexiglass by a most unusual technique that he invented. He priced one of his panels of King Tut at $15,000.00 to ensure that it would not sell. It did. And he was not overly happy. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Please note new address of: bobdu@prodigy.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 19:48:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:39:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: color me strange Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:43:01 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.13431.0> Precedence: bulk wouldnt be the first time...but from one starving artist to some who may not be quite as broke...but never hurts to get a free shirt, to work in... http://petrix.com/shirt ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 20:06:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:12:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon From: BMarhon@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Pricing - For a UPS Claim Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:08:56 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb12.2856.0> Precedence: bulk I have a different problem to do with pricing. I finally got around to shipping my daughter's chandelier that I made her for Christmas (so I'm a little late, she understands!). Just to be safe, I insured it for $600. Good thing I did because UPS dropped it and dinged it (even though it was marked FRAGILE) and it arrived with about eight cracks in the shade. I don't even want to think about repairing it. We have called UPS and they will go out and take a look at it, but does anyone know if I will have a problem getting the insured amount if I made it myself? (i.e. I don't have a receipt for it.) Even though I don't sell my work, I am fairly familiar with prices and feel that $600 was a fair value for it if it were to be purchased at a quality stained glass store. If you valued it at the hours I put into it (I'm rather fussy and slow) it would be more like $2000 but I'm sure no one would pay it. Has anyone had a similar experience with UPS or know what I might have to do to prove that the shade was worth $600? Thanks a bunch! Brenda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 20:20:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:43:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:42:35 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.164235.0> Precedence: bulk Well, I have to agree with Cindy. Whatever our assessment, and it = may be true, it's not necessary to use derogatory expressions to communicate our opinions. We all have too much class to lower ourselves using foul language... which really is only a sign of = small-mindedness. There are other ways to say it isn't worth the price tag.... the best way, of course, is to simply not buy it! = Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 20:27:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:32:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Luanne6556 From: Luanne6556@aol.com To: Witchdoc3@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:22:16 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb12.22216.0> Precedence: bulk Sparks, AND EVERYONE Couldn't help but chuckle with the shoelace bit. Thanks for your post, feeling much better today, physically and mentally. Thanks for the post from Linda Jo and Dani too. Dani, I did have nightmares about the end of a career. What would I do then? With or without toes? Luanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 20:38:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:44:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:42:42 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.164242.0> Precedence: bulk I agree ... you should not get a saw until you learn to cut glass well by hand... This will teach you how to treat the medium with respect. Glass doesn't like to be cut certain ways..... and you'll learn very = quickly the ways of glass when you cut by hand........................ I would even encourage you to skip the grinder for a = while so you don't become dependent on it and start spending = a fortune on grinder bits like so so many folks we know. (You know who you are out there )! Just some thoughts from an old dawg. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 20:50:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:30:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!PDRUSS From: PDRUSS@aol.com To: alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:10:41 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb12.31041.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/11/99 6:30:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net writes: << Wait a minute! She said the pieces are original, not unique. If she designed and built them, they're original. She didn't say there are no others like them. >> So what does "one of a kind" mean? No others with the exact same design or no others with the same color glass and the butterfly finding is in a different place? Dianne >^..^< ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 21:09:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:36:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!PDRUSS From: PDRUSS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Arab Doors Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:31:16 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb12.33116.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/11/99 8:47:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, stainglasborzoi@webtv.net writes: << Recently there were a few lines relating to the stained glass seen at the funeral of King Hussien.. This reminded me of a book I bought at the beginning of my adiction to stained glass.. The book is James Hubbell's Palace Doors of Abu Dhabi.. His work of art with stained glass and/or carved wood is magnificent... Fire motiffs made from red bevels,peacocks, a dove of jewels.. Wish I could share these photos with bungi.. Gloria >> I found this book in a used book store many years ago, long before I ever tried glass. We had stop on a trip just to look around. I looked through many books in that shop but bought none. But there are something about this book I just couldn't leave behind. As the car started to pull away I made my husband stop and I ran back in to buy it. Over the years I would pull it out and drool through it. It is what finally got me to try glass. Sadly, I will never be this dedicated to making glass as this true **artist**. When we first got our computer 2 years ago one of the first things I did was search for a site for James Hubbell. I finally found one but there are few photos of his work on it. But there are books and videos to order. http://www.sandiegoart.com/JHubbell/ I've never seen his work in person ( wrong coast) but over the years I have looked at many other glass pieces both in life and in books but never felt what I feel when I look at Hubbell's work--the beauty and the wonder of such **Art**. Dianne >^..^< ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 21:55:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 20:15:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Restoration-Success Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 20:14:41 PST Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, Well I just finished soldering the restoration piece I discussed last week. It turned out pretty good (I'll post a picture much later once I've framed and puttied it). Do I clean the flux off before I putty? Glass cleaner? What techniques do you use to clean a leaded panel? I'm going to use "Old Time Putty" tomorrow and try have it ready for framing the next day. -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 22:13:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 20:26:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:03:16 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.18316.0> Precedence: bulk Yes, Suzanne, the key words in the definition are "skill" and = "creative imagination"! For those of you who tuned in late, we're talking about dictionary meanings of "art" and "artist". Always very enlightening... and the response from the most verbose is usually, "Hmmm....". Best, Dani Greer = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 22:56:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:13:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Stained Glass in Mosque Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:10:35 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.171035.0> Precedence: bulk Given this sad time for his country and the ties to the US I'm sure if you posed this question to the Jordanian Embassy you would be able to get an answer and possibly a photo or brochure. I think his wife is/was American. The name for this kind of design escapes me at the moment, but it is a repeating pattern and dates back to the Moors (not much of a history buff... sorry). Anyway you see it many times in tiles. A central tile surrounded by different tiles. If you look at it for a while a pattern will emerge around the center tile, then fade back into the original design. As they say "With age the memory is the second thing to go". hmmmm I don't remember the first. (8-) Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 23:13:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:24:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Price Disparity & stuff Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:17:55 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.171755.0> Precedence: bulk Ain't the free market great? Just ask Bill Gates, Donald Trump, etc. Ask and ye shall receive. Now where is that soiled TuTu. I'll sell it cheap .......... $12,000 U.S. (less the IGGA discount of course). $1 for each time I've had to repair my gnomon. Because nobody has sent me Bios for this Saturday's posting (note the segway into the bios). If you want the TuTu after Saturday it will be $12,001 U.S. Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 23:31:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:29:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "Albert Lewis" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:26:06 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.17266.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks Albert, LOL may I add .... or a consultant. They don't work with any of the aforementioned parts (used to be one). -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis To: glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 2:42 PM Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing > >> "A man who works with his hands is a laborer. >> A man who works with his hands and head is a craftsman. >> A man who works with his hands, head and heart is an artist." > >Yes, and a person who decides into which of the three above >categories someone *else fits is a critic. > >(If you decide that about yourself, it's something different.) > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 23:44:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:00:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pdq.net!larsonrw From: "Ron and Wendy Larson" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: wow - multiple copies of every msg coming! Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:58:52 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.175852.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01D0_01BE561A.79F52540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wait a minute! You might have a problem. I am getting 6-8 copies = (duplicates) of every message tonight. Something is seriously wrong! I = logged on to check mail and had 300+ glass bungi mail. Please get it = back to 1 copy per message or take me offline until it is fixed. Thanks! ------=_NextPart_000_01D0_01BE561A.79F52540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Wait a minute! You might have a = problem. I am=20 getting 6-8 copies (duplicates) of every message tonight. Something is = seriously=20 wrong! I logged on to check mail and had 300+ glass bungi mail. Please = get it=20 back to 1 copy per message or take me offline until it is fixed.=20 Thanks!
------=_NextPart_000_01D0_01BE561A.79F52540-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 11 23:57:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:50:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "glass bungi com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Pricing of Bios Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:48:48 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.174848.0> Precedence: bulk If I don't get some bios quickly my gnomon will not be worth 2 cents (U.S., Canadian, UK, Australian, etc,) Please help a poor old Irishman in need. Send your bios to me please for posting. Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 00:07:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:55:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Arab Doors Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:51:32 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.135132.0> Precedence: bulk >>When we first got our computer 2 years ago one of the first things I did was search for a site for James Hubbell. I finally found one but there are few photos of his work on it. But there are books and videos to order. http://www.sandiegoart.com/JHubbell/ I've never seen his work in person ( wrong coast) but over the years I have looked at many other glass pieces both in life and in books but never felt what I feel when I look at Hubbell's work--the beauty and the wonder of such **Art**.<< James Hubbell lives in Julean, CA a few miles from me. He generously opens his home and studios (read estate) to various educational and worthy causes several times a year. The tour takes a couple of hours and lets one into a world where a hobbit would be quite happy. His home is a self made found treasure. I could not/would not do some of his body of art but respect it greatly. This guy has talent coming out of his every breath. Yes, it has over time made him rather well to do in the banking department. If you are very interested you might contact the San Diego Art Society and see when he will let them next run a fund raising tour. Likely next August or so. Palamor College also has periodic access. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Please note new address of: bobdu@prodigy.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 00:20:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:26:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Shirley's List" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Fw: News From Spectrum Glass Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:22:55 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.142255.0> Precedence: bulk I do not own stock in Spectrum but like to push the product anyway. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Please note new address of: bobdu@prodigy.net -----Original Message----- From: artglass@SpectrumGlass.com To: artglass@SpectrumGlass.com Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 10:11 PM Subject: News From Spectrum Glass Dear Friend: We've been busy! There are now 17 colors available in the popular "RR" (Rough-Rolled) cathedral line and 18 shimmering Art=EDques. Both lines have grown rapid= ly, just as we promised they would. Rather than bore you with a list of colo= r names, we'll invite you to see for yourself: 17 "RR" colors: http://www.spectrumglass.com/RR 18 Art=EDque colors: http://www.spectrumglass.com/Artique Both pages have links to full-size images of every product. And check out this quarter's Gallery Card, "Merlot." Artist Chris Cole used clear "RR" to create the perfect canvas for his winegrape design. There's a detail of the window on our home page: http://www.spectrumglass.com While you're there, admire our new Spectrum T-Shirt and (hot-off-the-pres= s) the new "Made with Mosaics" wall poster. From the home page, follow link= s to "GOODIES", then to "Posters" and "T-Shirts". The newest issue of THE SCORE (#66, March 15, 1999) is available for download now at: http://www.spectrumglass.com/LoadZone.html Thanks, and stay tuned! Spectrum Glass Company PS. To our knowledge, everyone receiving this mailing has requested to be on our e-mailing list. If you would like your name removed from this list please send us a message with the word "unsubscribe" as the subject and w= e will be glad to take you off the list. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 00:32:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:37:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!vlg From: "Vincent LaGreca" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing @ $28.33/hr Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 01:35:56 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb11.203556.0> Precedence: bulk My 2 cents. I won't comment on the work at this site but if this person is selling her work and is able to live well on her profits, god bless her. However, all that glitters is not gold. The one thing that caught my attention was in the description of one of her panels. This panel was priced at $3500. As she described the work she put into it she mentions that it took 124 hours to make. If you do the numbers, that comes to $28.33 per hour. (My mechanic bills at $80 / hour, and I have billed at $600 per hour in my profession) If she gets an faster she will starve herself out of business. Ciao Vic -----Original Message----- From: PDRUSS@aol.com To: alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net ; glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, February 12, 1999 12:08 AM Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing >In a message dated 2/11/99 6:30:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, >alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net writes: > ><< > Wait a minute! She said the pieces are original, not unique. > If she designed and built them, they're original. She didn't say > there are no others like them. >> > > >So what does "one of a kind" mean? > >No others with the exact same design >or >no others with the same color glass and the butterfly finding is in a >different place? > >Dianne >^..^< > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 03:42:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 02:43:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Pricing - For a UPS Claim Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 05:15:03 +0000 Message-ID: <199902121008.FAA24234@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Has anyone had a similar experience with UPS or know what I might have to do > to prove that the shade was worth $600? They'll want to see the invoice your company cut for the sale of the item, in my experience. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 05:20:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 04:23:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr From: CncptThnkr@aol.com To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: color me strange Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 07:21:55 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb12.122155.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/11/99 10:49:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com writes: > but never hurts to get a free shirt, to work > in... Hey Suzanne de Tulsa, I find it fascinating that they send t-shirts free of charge.......I filled in the request form but changed my first name......let's see what mailing lists I end up on now. IA (or Cia to the t-shirt people) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 06:07:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 05:00:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'Family Account'" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: prices Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:02:00 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.320.0> Precedence: bulk Dorothy, if you are serious about the business card holders, I have drawn two for medical professions. One is an open mouth with teeth for a dentist, the other is nose and eyeglass frames for optician/opthamoligist. Give a holler if you'd like jpg files of these and I'll find them this weekend and mail from home. Linda Okay, I've fully perused the site and have decided that I am going to make some more business card holders and charge...um...$150 each. I'm worth it. I'm in the process of setting up spring craft fairs and deciding what to make for them. Have to have something new and fresh, y'know. But I also need those business card holders, so I'll be searching through my scrap boxes. Also have designed a square foot abstract panel to use up some of the bevels I have around. It's no sense hording them, is it? John's made a nice oak frame for it. Then there's the mosaic I designed (no, I will never do KISS again!) of a covered bridge. New England, you know. Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 06:21:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 05:12:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Glass holder Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:12:47 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.31247.0> Precedence: bulk I came very close to having a sheet of glass slide off of my work table last month,right on top of my foot. Also I had trouble with larger squares of glass sliding on my Morton grid while trying to cut......I cut small strips of that "no move fabric" that boaters use to keep things from moving around while out on the water...I'm not sure what it is called and placed them under the glass...the glass did not budge a bit when I scored....I use it under my straight edges[Rulers] and anything prone to moving before I want it to. Hope this helps someone ,it realy works. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 06:39:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 05:42:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!tifstyorig From: Diane W Manchester To: BMarhon@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Pricing - For a UPS Claim Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:40:05 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.3405.0> Precedence: bulk Yes....I had a similar problem. My father had sent a large oil he painted, with a solid wood picture frame. My dad insured it for $500.00. The picture arrived in a big box and the wood frame was cracked in half. I called UPS and they contacted my dad (who was the shipper). They came and picked up the frame, and shipped it back to my dad. Then, they said to get a bonafide estimate on reframing the piece and fax it to Mrs. X. I did and the total for reframing came to $280.00. They were quick to pay and it all worked out. It may work differently with your piece, but that was how it worked in my case. Hope it works out for you. Diane Manchester ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 06:56:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 06:05:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: Price Disparity & stuff Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:59:10 -0500 Message-ID: <199902121359.IAA20398@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 2/19/99 12:17 AM Pat Kelly pkelly@n-link.com >Ask and ye shall receive. Now where is that soiled TuTu. I'll sell it cheap >.......... $12,000 U.S. (less the IGGA discount of course). $1 for each time >I've had to repair my gnomon. Because nobody has sent me Bios for this >Saturday's posting (note the segway into the bios). If you want the TuTu >after Saturday it will be $12,001 U.S. Hmmmm...I wonder if a bloody, cracked TuTu could be called art, mounted in a case, carted across the country for display (sans wearer, of course). Maybe we could use it to help finance the NEA? Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 07:41:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 07:13:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: Price Disparity & stuff Date: Fri Feb 12 07:12:02 1999 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.4502.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5697.D05818FC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I think Toby is willing to bid 1000 pounds. The question is 1000 pounds of what. Vic M. Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com -----Original Message----- From: Pat Kelly [mailto:pkelly@n-link.com] Sent: Friday, February 19, 1999 12:18 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: RE: Price Disparity & stuff Ain't the free market great? Just ask Bill Gates, Donald Trump, etc. Ask and ye shall receive. Now where is that soiled TuTu. I'll sell it cheap .......... $12,000 U.S. (less the IGGA discount of course). $1 for each time I've had to repair my gnomon. Because nobody has sent me Bios for this Saturday's posting (note the segway into the bios). If you want the TuTu after Saturday it will be $12,001 U.S. Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5697.D05818FC Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Price Disparity & stuff

I think Toby is willing to bid 1000 = pounds.
The question is 1000 pounds of = what.

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

      -----Original = Message-----
      From:   Pat Kelly [mailto:pkelly@n-link.com]
      Sent:   Friday, February 19, 1999 12:18 AM
      To:     glass@bungi.com
      Subject:       = RE: Price Disparity & = stuff

      Ain't the free market great?  = Just ask Bill Gates, Donald Trump, etc.

      Ask and ye shall receive. Now where is = that soiled TuTu. I'll sell it cheap
      .......... $12,000 U.S. (less the = IGGA discount of course). $1 for each time
      I've had to repair my gnomon. Because = nobody has sent me Bios for this
      Saturday's posting (note the segway = into the bios). If you want the TuTu
      after Saturday it will be $12,001 = U.S.


      Patrick
      Roses and Rainbows

      ----
      For subscription changes, please mail = to: glass-request@bungi.com
      To send to the = list,      please mail to: = glass@bungi.com
      Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5697.D05818FC-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 08:43:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 07:52:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: Price Disparity & stuff Date: Fri Feb 12 07:52:34 1999 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.53034.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE569D.3D96B536 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Why sans wearer. Use a large cage instead of a display case, add one cute puppy that likes mutton and call it performance art. Ticket sales among Bungi alone could pay for the E-tour. Vic M. Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com -----Original Message----- From: suzy@comcat.com [mailto:suzy@ComCAT.COM] Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 8:59 AM To: glass bungi line Subject: RE: Price Disparity & stuff 2/19/99 12:17 AM Pat Kelly pkelly@n-link.com >Ask and ye shall receive. Now where is that soiled TuTu. I'll sell it cheap >.......... $12,000 U.S. (less the IGGA discount of course). $1 for each time >I've had to repair my gnomon. Because nobody has sent me Bios for this >Saturday's posting (note the segway into the bios). If you want the TuTu >after Saturday it will be $12,001 U.S. Hmmmm...I wonder if a bloody, cracked TuTu could be called art, mounted in a case, carted across the country for display (sans wearer, of course). Maybe we could use it to help finance the NEA? Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE569D.3D96B536 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Price Disparity & stuff

Why sans wearer.
Use a large cage instead of a display = case, add one cute puppy that likes mutton and call it performance = art.

Ticket sales among Bungi alone could = pay for the E-tour.

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

      -----Original = Message-----
      From:   suzy@comcat.com = [mailto:suzy@ComCAT.COM]
      Sent:   Friday, February 12, 1999 8:59 AM
      To:     glass bungi line
      Subject:       = RE: Price Disparity & = stuff

      2/19/99 12:17 AM Pat Kelly = pkelly@n-link.com

      >Ask and ye shall receive. Now = where is that soiled TuTu. I'll sell it cheap
      >.......... $12,000 U.S. (less the = IGGA discount of course). $1 for each time
      >I've had to repair my gnomon. = Because nobody has sent me Bios for this
      >Saturday's posting (note the = segway into the bios). If you want the TuTu
      >after Saturday it will be $12,001 = U.S.

      Hmmmm...I wonder if a bloody, cracked = TuTu could be called art, mounted
      in a case, carted across the country = for display (sans wearer, of
      course). Maybe we could use it to = help finance the NEA?
      Suzanne
      ----
      For subscription changes, please mail = to: glass-request@bungi.com
      To send to the = list,      please mail to: = glass@bungi.com
      Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE569D.3D96B536-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 09:46:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:24:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Price Disparity & stuff Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:22:56 -0800 Message-ID: <199902121622.IAA16018@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >I think Toby is willing to bid 1000 pounds. >The question is 1000 pounds of what. > I heard that bid is good ONLY if it completes complete with owner :) C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 10:06:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:28:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Original Intent of Message Re: Pricing Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:27:47 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.62747.0> Precedence: bulk My pricing scheme: Price=3D((number of square inches in piece) * complexity factor) * skill level factor complexity factor =3D sliding scale of .8 to 1.5 depending on how complex= the piece will be to make. For example, a piece with all straight lines and simple curves using easy-to-cut machine-rolled glass (Spectrum) yields a .8 factor. But a multi-panel installation with plating and/or fired painted glass wi= th complex art glass (Youghiogheny or such) yields 1.5. skill level factor =3D how you rate yourself compaired to other stained g= lass artists in the field. In my first year of professional work I used a 75%= (multiply by .75) factor because I was still learning and knew that I wou= ld improve up to what I consider acceptable professional levels within a year of steady glass work. Now my skill level factor =3D 100%. As I a= dd new techniques and win more awards, I will increase the factor. So a = Bob Oddy I would rate with a higher skill level such as 150%. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 10:17:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:29:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Showing the price Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:27:44 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.62744.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Shirley Balloch >I like seeing the price of an item beside that item. I don't like having to look around the site to see what the price is. What do the rest of you think about that?< I do too. In fact, it was pointed out to me that having the price easily visible on the item or on a card next to the item makes customers more at ease about shopping for glass items. Many have a fear of having to pick up an item in order to find the price tag. They fear breaking it. So we should make it as easy as possible for them to shop our goods. This includes easy visibility of the price. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 11:09:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:29:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:27:55 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.62755.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "M. Savad" >the bandsaw i would recommend is the gemini ringsaw. but you really don't need one. 98% of all cuts can be and really should be done by hand.< Amen, Mike, to the 98%. I own a Taurus II ring saw also, but find that the quickest, most accurate method of cutting is by hand for the vast, vast majority of cuts. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 11:22:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:08:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Glass holder Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:43:33 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.54333.0> References: <<1999Feb12.31247.0>> Precedence: bulk Evelyn C Mason wrote: > > I came very close to having a sheet of glass slide off of my work table last > month,right on top of my foot. Also I had trouble with larger squares of > glass sliding on my Morton grid while trying to cut......I cut small strips > of that "no move fabric" that boaters use to keep things from moving around > while out on the water...I'm not sure what it is called and placed them > under the glass...the glass did not budge a bit when I scored....I use it > under my straight edges[Rulers] and anything prone to moving before I want > it to. Hope this helps someone ,it realy works. > > ---- there's a material that i'm looking for, it's called Dycem. my grandmother uses it to hold things in place. and i have a small piece that i use for cutting. glass does not move on this material. i'd love to get some, the dydem company still has'nt sent their sample. and i'm still looking for a catalog that sells the stuff. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 11:33:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:10:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Suzanne Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: websites and Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:21:03 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.5213.0> References: <<1999Feb11.125557.0>> Precedence: bulk Suzanne wrote: > > > the event > > of the year, well one of the events of the year :) > > Drinking my nightly wine, Pam, I say come on over girlfriend, there is > plenty for both of us! > > I can honestly say the E tour will be the event of the year for me! ;o) > Thanks for all the hard work you guys are doing. I am excited. > Sorry I havent gotten back to any of you as to where I gonna be able to > catch it... > > now to change the subject... > > I am slowly starting to change over my family website to my glass > website (if I could only get my ISP to cooperate). > > Several have told me they have never expected their websites to generate > $$ for their checkbook (forget savings). What I am asking, of you with > glass/studio etc...websites.. Do you get new buyers from your website? > Assuming people like what they see there....what can I expect? > Should I just expect to be able to write off my ISP $ on my taxes? A > place to send potential clients for an online portfolio? Or...can I > expect to generate sales? > > Or can I expect a public critique? ;o) > > Thanks. > > Tulsa Suzanne > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass possibly. i personally don't sell anything on my page. but i've had offers or curiosities about selling my work online. though the price ususually turns them off pretty quickly. currently i just don't trust people (with money), online. then there is shipping, how do you do the world? etc. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 11:47:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:12:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: bungi group Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:24:24 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.52424.0> References: <<1999Feb11.145834.0>> Precedence: bulk pj friend wrote: > > Good evening Pam, > > The problem being with someone charging outrageous prices for mediocre work > is that it gives all glass artists a bad name. And I personally think people > have a right to question mediocre work. > Just my personal opinion. > > my best, > pj > Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. > www.waterw.com/~artglass > Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America > Member International Guild of Glass Artists > -----Original Message----- > From: Pamela Burns-Tappan > To: glass@bungi.com > Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 7:51 PM > Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing > > >I've pondered all the points well made. My initial reaction to the > >critical post, was to me it was border line slamming. That is was "irked > >my tater" as my daughter would say. Criticism is healthy yes, over > >pricing hey we have all done it one time or another. It was the way the > >post was presented in the first place, it was the way I personally > >interpreted it. > > > >Bob and all you were merely being brutally honest with your opinions and > >I'm not saying that I don't disagree with some of them. This is a tough > >business we're in it's a challenge for all of us. > > > >But I would like to keep criticism of someone's work to a respectful > >level here on bungi. If I misunderstood anyone, tulsa suzanne etc. I > >apologize. Typing when irritated and tired is not my best call lately as > >I can see :) It's also my german blood that gets me in trouble. Maybe > >it's time for a glass of wine, a break from classes, a break from the > >E-Tour schedule and some popcorn. And mentioning the E-Tour just now. I > >will say that we are working our tail ends off and it will be the event > >of the year, well one of the events of the year :) > > > >Pam > > > >-- > >********************************* > > > >Pamela Burns-Tappan > >Executive Director > >The Stained Glass Artists > >http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists > > > >Moswood Mountain Limited > >http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited > >http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1 > > > > yeah that's pretty much it... on one side, it makes the proffesionals look good. the prices are high, ours are low and you get a better product. on the other side though, people will look at those prices and think all stained glass is to expensive and not even want to know what your stuff looks like. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 11:58:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:13:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: BMarhon@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Pricing - For a UPS Claim Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:33:07 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.5337.0> References: <<1999Feb12.2856.0>> Precedence: bulk BMarhon@aol.com wrote: > > I have a different problem to do with pricing. I finally got around to > shipping my daughter's chandelier that I made her for Christmas (so I'm a > little late, she understands!). Just to be safe, I insured it for $600. Good > thing I did because UPS dropped it and dinged it (even though it was marked > FRAGILE) and it arrived with about eight cracks in the shade. I don't even > want to think about repairing it. We have called UPS and they will go out and > take a look at it, but does anyone know if I will have a problem getting the > insured amount if I made it myself? (i.e. I don't have a receipt for it.) > Even though I don't sell my work, I am fairly familiar with prices and feel > that $600 was a fair value for it if it were to be purchased at a quality > stained glass store. If you valued it at the hours I put into it (I'm rather > fussy and slow) it would be more like $2000 but I'm sure no one would pay it. > > Has anyone had a similar experience with UPS or know what I might have to do > to prove that the shade was worth $600? > > Thanks a bunch! > Brenda > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass currently i'm a shipper, and work with UPS. these are my presdictions: they will say they sent the driver to look at the package. the driver will say it was'nt packed well enough, and you will get nothing. glass is an iffy thing, i packed a stuben thingy, it their own box. the box with 4 times the size of the crystal, and it was densly packed with newspaper shreds. it arrived chipped, we had to pay for it. UPS claimed that it was'nt packed properly (but this is how we got it in the first place). when you made the claim, you did'nt by any chance mention you made it did you? it would be easier to say you bought it. and make up a reciept for it. use word or something. it really should'nt be decieving anyone, because this may be the reciept you give to everyone. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 12:02:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:41:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: sunset.net!fullspec From: Kay Frith Allen To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Box lid mounting tape Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:47:18 -0800 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990212084718.006d2ed8@pop3.sunset.net> Precedence: bulk Hi, Does anyone use the Clarity Box Lid Mounting Tape? I bought some a few years ago and just got around to using them to hold in the small 6" x 9" SG insert that goes into the top of those wooden jewelry boxes. The tape is another alternative to those framer's points. The tape is 36 inches of 1/8" thick by 7/32" wide black mounting tape. Does anyone know where I can buy more of this item or of something else on the market that is similar? Kay ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 12:16:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:56:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!PDRUSS From: PDRUSS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Arab Doors Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:36:35 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb12.173635.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/12/99 12:53:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, BOBDU@prodigy.net writes: << If you are very interested you might contact the San Diego Art Society and see when he will let them next run a fund raising tour. Likely next August or so. Palamor College also has periodic access. Bob >> LOL, Bob, the chances of me getting to CA are about the same as me going to the moon. But hopfully someone else on the list can go. Yes, I have to say when it comes to James Hubbel's work I have a big case of hero workship. :) Dianne >^..^< ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 12:20:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:00:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: soltec.net!tamis From: "Tami Siddens" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: email learning curve Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:01:05 -0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.1215.0> Precedence: bulk I have read the emails on formatting, unfortunately have just figured out how to change format. Information overload! Sorry for possibly jibberish - this should fix. thanks - Tami ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 12:41:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:02:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "Modiano, Victor" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: Price Disparity & stuff Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:50:43 -0500 Message-ID: <199902121751.MAA22247@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 2/12/99 10:34 AM Modiano, Victor vmodiano@ctronsoft.com >Why sans wearer. >Use a large cage instead of a display case, add one cute puppy that likes >mutton and call it performance art. > Ouch! (Could be you were a gladiator in a former life?) Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 12:43:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:54:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY From: JJKIRBY@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:24:39 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb12.182439.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/11/99 6:01:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, GreerStudios@compuserve.com writes: << Emporer's new clothes, well, are a bit scant. Artists through the ages have always known that when you place your work in the public square, you >> Also in this case, I think that the degree of critical harshness was a function of the price of the work. Many people expect premium work for premium dollar. While you have to admire craftspeople who can get super premium dollar for average work... It is probably better for all us, if consumers are well educated and know what they're paying for. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 13:45:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:48:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Glenna Rand Subject: Re: Restoration-Success Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:47:01 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.20471.0> References: <> Precedence: bulk In message , Glenna Rand writes >Hi everyone, > >Well I just finished soldering the restoration piece I discussed >last week. It turned out pretty good (I'll post a picture much >later once I've framed and puttied it). > >Do I clean the flux off before I putty? Glass cleaner? >What techniques do you use to clean a leaded panel? > OK my method is to brush the cement (a black linseed oil putty) under the leads with a stiff brush. If you use the commercial stuff for the outside of windows, you can make it black by adding carbon black and you can thin it with white spirit until it like stiff treacle (molasses). Then it is ready to brush. The brushing action cleans the glass and the leads, so no need for cleaning flux off, nor the glass. After the putty has been brushed under the cames, you add whiting (Calcium carbonate) to absorb the excess oils. Then turn the panel. do the same to the second side. Turn the panel again. Using the stiff brush scrub at the glass and leads, add more whiting, scrub some more. Turn the panel over, do the same on the other side. By this time you should be getting things pretty clean. So it is time to get out the soft brush, to finally polish up the glass and lead work. This will pull colour onto the came and solder joints and make things shiny black and the glass sparkling. It takes time. But if you do it diligently, it will be ready for "tomorrow". standard putty without whiting will take much longer to become stiff, wont give a shine to the came, and will require window cleaner (yuck) Steve >I'm going to use "Old Time Putty" tomorrow and try have it ready for framing >the next day. > > -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 14:11:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:48:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet From: "Karen K." To: Subject: Re: Glass holder Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:49:00 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.10490.0> Precedence: bulk Mike, Any store that sells shelf liner or contact paper should carry rolls of the No-Slip Shelf Liner. There is a heavy weight and a reg. My mom uses this in the motor home to keep dishes and stuff in place. It is just like a no-slip router pad that I cut my glass on. Karen Think Spring! giapet@softhouse.com >Evelyn C Mason wrote: >> >> I came very close to having a sheet of glass slide off of my work table last >> month,right on top of my foot. Also I had trouble with larger squares of >> glass sliding on my Morton grid while trying to cut......I cut small strips >> of that "no move fabric" that boaters use to keep things from moving around >> while out on the water...I'm not sure what it is called and placed them >> under the glass...the glass did not budge a bit when I scored....I use it >> under my straight edges[Rulers] and anything prone to moving before I want >> it to. Hope this helps someone ,it realy works. >> >> ---- > > > >there's a material that i'm looking for, it's called Dycem. my >grandmother uses it to hold things in place. and i have a small piece >that i use for cutting. glass does not move on this material. i'd love >to get some, the dydem company still has'nt sent their sample. and i'm >still looking for a catalog that sells the stuff. > >---Mike Savad > >-- >Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos >http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 >2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance >Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification >too and A Look at Sky City >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 14:35:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:49:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Dean Johnson Subject: Re: Stained Glass in Mosque Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:16:50 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.201650.0> References: <<1999Feb11.142918.0@?>> Precedence: bulk It is the human figure that is forbidden to be represented in Muslim cultures. There are lots of plant representations in the Arabic world. Geometric designs do tend to predominate, but are not exclusive. Steve (just back from Tunisia) In message <1999Feb11.142918.0@?>, Dean Johnson writes >Linda Jo wrote: > >> this was a private mosque in the palace. I was wondering who did it, and >> what the window depected... > >I believe Islamic law forbids the use of pictorial representations in a >mosque, so the design must be geometric. > >Elizabeth Johnson >dmj@cyberportal.net > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 14:36:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:09:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:57:12 +0000 Message-ID: <199902122108.VAA19904@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hi All, I myself got a bit surprised when reading this request. The title read FIRST tools, so my thoughts immediately went to consider glass cutters and why would one be better than another etc, then to grozier and breaking pliers and what other FIRST tools to recommend or suggest. Then I read the body of the text....."glass saw".... "glass grinder". As FIRST tools??!! Nah, don't think so. But I am still not well enough to put myself directly in the firing line. Thank you Dani for rising to the occasion (yet again!!). I couldn't agree more! Dear Newbie..... PLEEZE listen to Dani! Know that my "job-application" at her studio as a "sweeper-upper" was rejected! She (and Michael) have still a lot to teach me (who is an even OLDER Dawg!!). Affinity and passion about glass comes with handling it with your OWN HANDS, not with machines. On an analogy, the same mental and physical battle, especially as regards a real "hands-on sweat", a kind of mind over matter, the challenge and triumphs you will find if you have ever read Ernest Hemingway's "The Old Man and The Sea". It's very elemental, yet very exciting. Stained glass is a bit like that too. And Dani, you STILL haven't told me what a "chuck-wagon" is.... :-< Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Dani wrote: I agree ... you should not get a saw until you learn to cut glass well by hand... This will teach you how to treat the medium with respect. Glass doesn't like to be cut certain ways..... and you'll learn very = quickly the ways of glass when you cut by hand........................ I would even encourage you to skip the grinder for a = while so you don't become dependent on it and start spending = a fortune on grinder bits like so so many folks we know. (You know who you are out there )! Just some thoughts from an old dawg. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 14:59:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:09:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: websites and Re: Disparity in Pricing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:57:12 +0000 Message-ID: <199902122108.VAA19900@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Dear Suzanne de Tulsa, and ALL, This is THE admission of the year!!!! While getting more and more ill, yet trying last Christmas to stretch myself between various families and cook for a flipping army, the actual Christmas spirit between Brian, myself, Susan, Toby and another couple of very close friends, sort of got rather out of gear. Half way through February there are still carefully and lovingly thought out Christmas presents that have STILL not been exchanged. WORSE than that..... the Christmas Tree is still standing in the dining room, complete with all its decorations!!!! So, between now and Easter, I and my merry little band of close family and "extended" family will yet have a Christmas together. The Christmas Tree will remain until THEN. So There!!!! (And "sod" old wives tales about bad luck!!) The SECOND most important event of 1999 will be meeting Suzanne de Tulsa's eager face in USA and (from what I gather) many others in her position. In the last month there have been an avalanche of very enthusiastic, impatient and keen leading questions arriving in my mailbox. Even and including from Glenna. I feel pretty "shitty" and guilty about the delays in answering, purely and simply from lack of "oomphh" and physical energy. I AM getting better, but in that I get over-ambitious and then run out of steam. So Glenna has soldered her project (we had a bit of an exchange about that and I have let her down). Get rid of the flux FIRST Glenna, and then cement!!! Don't leave the cement and whiting for longer than 24 hours, then get a stiff scrubbing brush (or old-fashioned nail brush) and start cleaning up the excess through brushing it off fairly vigorously in circular motion. So often I hold back, because I realise that 5 minutes of physically demonstrating something, gets rid of weeks of verbal attempts at explanations. Carol, you may think that over an expanse of 14 inches of stained glass pieces dressed in lead , the anchoring of the glass and lead by 7 horse-shoe nails creates a forrest amongst which you find difficult to manouvre. Not so!! I would have probably had an additional 10 nails to anchor down. Yet to move, secure, anchor glass and lead is really easy and logical. Yet when you are leading, the "seating" of the glass in the lead is all important, the securing and anchoring paramount. I come across this mental block time and time again with my own students here in UK. If you don't secure and anchor everything, all will shift and dance around, totally screw you up - unless you are totally and utterly in control. THAT is the excitement about leading! Suzanne de Tulsa represents to me the bright-eyed 'n bushy tailed enthusiastic learner (and potential professional) that really turns me on as regards teaching a new generation; adding to which her close relationship with Mother Eart . A further attraction is her very earthy appreciation of what Mother Nature REALLY intended to do with the grape........ There are a few things up in the air here; the Allentown happenings are currently a "moving feast". The E-Team are working their socks off (for nothing other than Love and Thin Air) to make it all hang together. I myself have still to get well enough, to make personal contact with individual people/companies who have committed themselves to sponsor the tour that is very much designed to be a dialogue between You and I....... Could you.....would you.... possibly..... hang on to your "leading problems until then..... ??? We'll have great fun! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Drinking my nightly wine, Pam, I say come on over girlfriend, there is plenty for both of us! I can honestly say the E tour will be the event of the year for me! ;o) Thanks for all the hard work you guys are doing. I am excited. Sorry I havent gotten back to any of you as to where I gonna be able to catch it... ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 15:12:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:09:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE: prices Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:57:12 +0000 Message-ID: <199902122108.VAA19911@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Linda, would it be too much of a bother to include me in your jpg despatch of these business cards holders....? Many, many thanks. Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Dorothy, if you are serious about the business card holders, I have drawn two for medical professions. One is an open mouth with teeth for a dentist, the other is nose and eyeglass frames for optician/opthamoligist. Give a holler if you'd like jpg files of these and I'll find them this weekend and mail from home. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 15:24:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:10:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Stained Glass in Mosque Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:57:12 +0000 Message-ID: <199902122108.VAA19908@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hi All, Byzantine, Patrick m'dear, Byzantine.... Shame on you not to keep your tu-tu in tip-top condition, seeing that the time of reckoning is drawing closer and closer. Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Patrick wrote: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:48:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:42:33 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.54233.0> Precedence: bulk >>Also in this case, I think that the degree of critical harshness was a function of the price of the work. Many people expect premium work for premium dollar.<< Very true in my case. If I had it to do again, I would tone down the comments while getting the same point across. Dealing with a web site owned by someone that I do not know really does not call for increasing the sharpness of my attack. Critical comments can be made with a smile. When S of Tulsa gets on line I will do a far better job. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Have class, think glass. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 15:55:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:55:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:JJKIRBY@aol.com" , Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:53:40 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.115340.0> Precedence: bulk Amen! I always encourage customers to go to every glass shop in town and compare portfolios as well as prices. That helps = them establish standards... it is, as you say, an education and = most consumers are pretty smart. I always point out to folks that our prices are a bit higher (maybe), but we offer some things that other studios don't - like kiln-fired glass painting and one-of- a-kind work that's also designed specifically for their location. And, design and installation is included in the price. I still chuckle about the couple that was in a while back going through our portfolios.... the husband says to the wife, "Wow, this stuff is like real art!" Hmmmm.... now there's a concept, I thought to myself. At any rate, I know that they were better able to judge glass art having taken the time to visit numerous studios. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 16:22:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:43:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: That site was: disparity, etc. Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 17:42:11 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.124211.0> Precedence: bulk I hope you all realized that she's used up a really good URL. Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 16:40:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:27:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mindspring.com!juliam From: "Julia Moseley" To: "Toby" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: prices Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:31:14 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.73114.0> Precedence: bulk My dentist is fantastic, and I'd love to see the JPG of the business card holders too. It would be a fun present to give to Dr. Gail! :-) Julia -----Original Message----- From: Toby To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, February 12, 1999 1:09 PM Subject: RE: prices >Linda, >would it be too much of a bother to include me in your jpg despatch >of these business cards holders....? >Many, many thanks. >Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK > >Dorothy, if you are serious about the business card holders, I have drawn >two for medical professions. One is an open mouth with teeth for a dentist, >the other is nose and eyeglass frames for optician/opthamoligist. Give a >holler if you'd like jpg files of these and I'll find them this weekend and >mail from home. > >---- >As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" >North Lights Stained Glass - homepage >http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm >---- >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 17:19:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:32:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Toby Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: websites and Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 17:36:17 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.113617.0> References: <<199902122108.VAA19900@saturn.nildram.co.uk>> Precedence: bulk > Suzanne de Tulsa represents to me the bright-eyed 'n bushy tailed > enthusiastic learner (and potential professional) that really turns > me on as regards teaching a new generation; adding to which her close > relationship with Mother Eart . A further attraction is her very > earthy appreciation of what Mother Nature REALLY intended to do with > the grape........ Oh God, I'm sooooo scared! But very excited. And Elisabeth, you are so sweet to me. You just can't know how much I appreciate you. Anyone have any suggestions as to a good first lead panel to do? Not too easy, but not too hard? lol... Actually, would be good to have the problems pop up with Elisabeth by my side rather than when I am home by myself. So a little challenge would be good. Everytime I look at a panel with any detail, I can't imagine how you do it with lead came. Do you miter *every* joint??? ARGHHHHHH. ;o) Visualising something grotesque from this lead newbie! You want it to be about 12"x12", is that right? I *still* dont know *where I am going to meet you, Elisabeth...but hoping I can follow you to more than one spot! ;o) Gotta go fluff my tail, ;o) Tulsa Suzanne, who did marry a pro winemaker (<-- smarter than you knew) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 17:37:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:05:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Pricing - For a UPS Claim Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:10:37 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.81037.0> References: <<199902121008.FAA24234@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk How did you get UPS to ship it? They refuse to ship glass in these here parts of the country. Shirley B > > > Has anyone had a similar experience with UPS or know what I might have to do > > to prove that the shade was worth $600? -- x>"3 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 17:44:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:17:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: Dawn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Original Intent of Message Re: Pricing Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:47:40 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.74740.0> References: <<1999Feb11.4034.0>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk Dawn, I have been at Bungi for two years. This subject has come up, twice where the mainstream answered in great detail. I suspect, you just hit a nerve in your wording. I really hate to tell people to go to the archives, but the answers are there. $1-2 per piece of glass, plus $100-125 per sq. ft. seems to be the consenses. Then, if it is your original work, whatever your heart tells you or the market will alllow. Bottom line, never sell for less than your guts tell you. It will nag at you the rest of your life. You are the artist, even if you are a beginner. Part of art, is trusting that inner knowledge that only you have, and then having the courage to put the right price tag on it. Don't despair. You are on the right track. Good luck and keep up the good work. Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 18:02:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:51:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: An observation. Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:55:54 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.85554.0> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk It has been hard to follow all these threads today(107). I have read up to 4 replies to a message, before I got to the original message. This just flabbergasts me. Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 18:17:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:59:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: "M. Savad" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Glass holder Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 17:03:39 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.9339.0> References: <<1999Feb12.54333.0>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk There is a product. I can't remember the name of it for the life of me. We used it in the nursing home to stop a stroke patient's plate from moving around while he was trying to eat. It comes in table place mat sizes and Wal-mart sells it in various colors in that part of the store. I have never used it for glass, but I bet it would work for smaller peices. I know it is sold by the roll, cause the Physical therapy dept. was always cutting up peices of it to work with the stroke patients. Maybe you can go and check it out at Wal-Mart? Good luck Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 20:10:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 18:38:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon From: BMarhon@aol.com To: balloch@netbridge.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Pricing - For a UPS Claim Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:35:17 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb13.23517.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Shirley- I got UPS to ship it because they didn't know what it was. I work for a mail order company and we ship over 500 packages a day with them. And we always insure the packages for actual value ( insurance is included up to $100 at no extra charge and the extra insurance is very reasonable). My package cost under $9 to ship and it was BIG. We have a professional shipping department and they used a lot of bubble wrap all the way around and it did not move in the box and nowhere did the sides touch the box. I'm mystified how they managed to break it in so many different places. The latest is that they want to pick up the broken shade and return it to me - for what purpose I don't know because I don't think I can fix it. But this came from my daughter on my voicemail so I don't know the whole story yet. Unfortunately, neither of us thought to say I had bought it from someone else and I think UPS now knows I made it so --- there may be a problem. However, since we do between $8,000-$20,000 a week in business with UPS (and I pay their bill), maybe not. But I figure I paid for the insurance and I valued the shade at a fair price so I'm willing to fight with them on it. Brenda << How did you get UPS to ship it? They refuse to ship glass in these here parts of the country. >> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 20:43:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:09:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Shirley Balloch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Pricing - For a UPS Claim Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:10:28 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.151028.0> References: <<1999Feb12.81037.0>> Precedence: bulk > How did you get UPS to ship it? They refuse to ship glass in these here > parts of the country. > Shirley B Shirley, I have shipped alot of glass stuff UPS, and recieve glass UPS. They havent asked what I was shipping come to think of it. I remember I used to (on west coast) have to fill out a form defining what everything was that I was shipping, dont guess I have had to do that for a long time. Wonder why the difference. My cousin has a neon sign business (makes all Budweisers's signs) and he ships them UPS. They know what he is shipping. You might want to inquire further. Perhaps your UPS agent is misinformed? Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 21:01:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:13:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:58:18 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.165818.0> Precedence: bulk Hmmm...Saws and grinders, The saw is certainly something that should wait until you have learned where to use it and when to just cut some glass. As for grinders, you've got to take care not to become a "grinder junkie" as we call them here. This tool is great for the occasional fix but has become a massive crutch. Worse yet some "evil glass teachers" or perhaps ones who just don't know any better have portrayed this tool as a "necessity" rather than a "nicety". In the long run countless man hours are wasted playing with these "labor saving devices" that could be saved by just learning the craft properly. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 21:59:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:59:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: She's Back Again Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 22:47:35 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.164735.0> Precedence: bulk I thought the drugged anchovies would have worked by now. Damn, have to rethink my position ( and dosage to send to Bournesmith). Welcome back my dear, I didn't think any bug would be brave enough to even attempt an infection on such a gracious (note the compliment) poultry queen of the barnyard. (8-) Maybe her appetite for Philly Cheesesteaks will wane and I can save some money. LOL Get healthy my nemesis, we need your input. Love to Toby (don't feed him the anchovies I sent you). Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 23:04:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:39:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Pattern needed Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:43:12 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.134312.0> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk Does anyone know of a pattern for a mini terrium? Thanks in advance. Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 12 23:24:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:51:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Shisha mirrors Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:52:37 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.135237.0> Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk Hi all, Does anyone know of a supplier here in the states that carries shisha mirrors for use as mirror tesserae? Thanks, Pam -- ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists Moswood Mountain Limited http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 00:16:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 22:23:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cros.net!soraya From: "Soraya" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 01:21:04 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.20214.0> Precedence: bulk >>>>>>As for grinders, you've got to take care not to become a "grinder junkie" Had to laugh at this.....my SG teacher calls them "grinder-aholics". He teaches us how to use a grinder but has loudly stated several dozen times.... "I'll have more respect for you if you learn how to cut the glass rather then grind it to death." I did just go out and buy myself a grinder (got it today as a matter of fact) because I do plan working with this meduim for quite awhile to come...but I certainly plan on practicing my glass cutting skills as well...and will not apoligize to using it to shave off a milli-meter here and there to make the whole piece fit and look better. Take Care, Soraya ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 00:31:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 23:00:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: esavad@home.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: websites and Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 01:05:30 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb12.19530.0> References: <<36C446DF.43C3@home.net>> Precedence: bulk > possibly. i personally don't sell anything on my page. but i've had > offers or curiosities about selling my work online. though the price > ususually turns them off pretty quickly. currently i just don't trust > people (with money), online. then there is shipping, how do you do the > world? etc. > > ---Mike Savad > Unfortunately, we cant compare your work and my work. I dont even aspire to some of the stuff you do, Mike. It would be so far off (read unattainable), it would be too depressing. I have to be a little more here and now. Those that were turned off by your prices were only unable to afford them. You do amazing things, Mike. Mind if I ask where your Azure box sits? T Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 06:25:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 05:21:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 08:18:33 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb13.131833.0> Precedence: bulk Just wanted to mention that when I teach I tell students that they should wear glasses while scoring glass and soldering, as well as during grinding. Also, I tell students they should wear gloves while soldering. Someone with sensitive skin could possibly get a rash from chemicals (who knows?). When I read about concerns and waivers, I only saw wearing of glasses during grinding strongly stated and wanted to mention the dangers during soldering (yes, solder does spit and could land in someone's eye, God forbid, possibly blinding them and glass flies while scoring, also endangering vision). Let's cover all of the bases while we are at it! Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 06:55:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 06:15:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Luanne6556 From: Luanne6556@aol.com To: edupjohn@slonet.org, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 09:14:11 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb13.141411.0> Precedence: bulk Peggy, I received three great sites for a waiver form............ http://www.smsg.org/Waiver.htm http://reslife.tamu.edu/dived/guide96/Release.htm http://www.maboli.com/seva/lohgarh/waiver.html I hope to have time to fool around with them before the next class. Luanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 07:07:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 06:17:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: She's Back Again Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 09:16:27 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb13.141627.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/13/99 1:00:50 AM, pkelly@n-link.com wrote: >( and dosage to send to Bournesmith). =8-O Patrick, you've poisoned the wrong woman! That's Elizabeth with a *Z* in Bournemouth. Let's just hope she doesn't have any pets that might be tempted to eat that fishy-smelling package........ Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 07:17:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 06:18:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 09:16:30 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb13.141630.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/13/99 12:02:19 AM, dodgestudio@juno.com wrote: >As for grinders, you've got to take care not to become a "grinder junkie" >as we call them here. This tool is great for the occasional fix but has >become a massive crutch. Worse yet some "evil glass teachers" or >perhaps ones who just don't know any better have portrayed this tool as a >"necessity" rather than a "nicety". Grinding may be optional if you're doing lead work, but it's absolutely necessary with copper foil, otherwise you'll slice your foil to shreds! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 07:29:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 06:19:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Luanne6556 From: Luanne6556@aol.com To: balloch@netbridge.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 09:16:26 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb13.141626.0> Precedence: bulk Shirley, Thanks for your post, back to normal around here now and am rewriting the safety rules for the studio. Rule number 1 - Do as I say, not as I do. lol Luanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 07:33:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 05:53:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Luanne6556 From: Luanne6556@aol.com To: BMarhon@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Pricing - For a UPS Claim Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 08:51:46 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb13.135146.0> Precedence: bulk Brenda, My experience with UPS has always been great, even with insurance claims. They always ask the contents and it must be double boxed. I always mark the boxes GLASS FRAGILE, etc., even the smallest parcel. UPS always sends an inspector to check to see if it was packaged properly, then they send it back to me. I determine whether or not it is repairable and how much. Then they send me a check. If it is a total loss, they send the check and sometimes they come pick the piece up, sometimes they do not. But this is with a business. In the future, it is best to follow all guidelines so that you are covered. It doesn't matter how well you pack it, sometimes you can see tire tracks on the boxes!! Luanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 07:50:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 06:32:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Teaching and Liability Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 09:37:50 +0000 Message-ID: <199902131430.JAA10249@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Just wanted to mention that when I teach I tell students that they should wear > glasses while scoring glass and soldering, as well as during grinding. Also, > I tell students they should wear gloves while soldering. Then, even if they don't do any of that, you're covered. You *told them so! Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 08:02:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 07:21:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: usa.net!jenfrisbee From: Jennifer Frisbee To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: First tools Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 15:18:34 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.231834.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks for the advice. I think you are right...I was getting a bit ahead of myself. I think I'm becoming a tool-junkie just like my husband! The reason I brought up the saw and grinder bit is due to the Powerkits system we had seen in the Inland catalog. Since both of us do a good deal of craft work (my husband builds puppets and marionettes), we thought that it might be a good investment. However, for my stained glass work right now I really don't need the saw at all. The grinder, however, really helped my last piece come together (a small kaleidoscope with a lot of little pieces)...so I may bite the bullet and invest in one soon. Well...thanks again....back to the practicing board! Jen Frisbee - newbie extraordinaire! ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 08:18:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 07:23:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: city-net.com!dany From: "Daniela Birkelbach" To: "Shirley Balloch" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Pattern needed Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:22:11 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.52211.0> Precedence: bulk Shirley, do you mean terrarium? There is a Wardell book "Terrariums and Planters" which has a little terrarium in it. Looks very nice! I'll scan you a picture of the finished terrarium in the book if you're really interested. Dany Kennebec, Inc. http://www.kennebec-inc.com http://www.city-net.com/~dany -----Original Message----- From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Date: Saturday, February 13, 1999 1:54 AM Subject: Pattern needed >Does anyone know of a pattern for a mini terrium? >Thanks in advance. >Shirley B >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 08:39:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 07:23:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!HiimLaura From: HiimLaura@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: mirror sealant Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:14:06 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb13.15146.0> Precedence: bulk Hello all: I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas concerning the protection of mirror bottoms (boxes, candle shelters, etc.). I use the aerosol mirror edge sealant after cutting and grinding, but once in a while I still get a small spot where the silver will seperate from the mirror glass. Is there anything else I could apply to the mirror back to prevent this peeling? Any advice would be appreciated. Laura P ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 10:12:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 09:11:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Shirley Balloch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Pricing - For a UPS Claim Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 12:12:00 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.7120.0> References: <<1999Feb12.81037.0>> Precedence: bulk Shirley Balloch wrote: > = > How did you get UPS to ship it? They refuse to ship glass in these her= e > parts of the country. > Shirley B > > > > > Has anyone had a similar experience with UPS or know what I might h= ave to do > > > to prove that the shade was worth $600? > = > -- > x=9F>"3=16=01=06=90=08 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass basically you don't tell them what's in it. all they know it's a box worth X amount of dollars, weighing this much. it says fragile on the box, so they know not to drop it from too high a place. and not to place it under the heavy anvils, just the lighter ones. ---Mike Savad -- = Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 10:31:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 09:14:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: balloch@netbridge.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Glass holder Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 12:13:37 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.71337.0> References: <<36C4CF6B.4741@netbridge.net>> Precedence: bulk Shirley Balloch wrote: > > There is a product. I can't remember the name of it for the life of me. > We used it in the nursing home to stop a stroke patient's plate from > moving around while he was trying to eat. > It comes in table place mat sizes and Wal-mart sells it in various > colors in that part of the store. > I have never used it for glass, but I bet it would work for smaller > peices. I know it is sold by the roll, cause the Physical therapy dept. > was always cutting up peices of it to work with the stroke patients. > Maybe you can go and check it out at Wal-Mart? > Good luck > Shirley B it must be the same stuff, Dycem. because my grandmother got it when she had a stroke. hers was blue in color, and impervious to almost every kind of chemical. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 10:42:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 09:23:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: websites and Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 12:23:32 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.72332.0> References: <<36C5243A.62FD@ix.netcom.com>> Precedence: bulk Suzanne wrote: > > > possibly. i personally don't sell anything on my page. but i've had > > offers or curiosities about selling my work online. though the price > > ususually turns them off pretty quickly. currently i just don't trust > > people (with money), online. then there is shipping, how do you do the > > world? etc. > > > > ---Mike Savad > > > > Unfortunately, we cant compare your work and my work. > > I dont even aspire to some of the stuff you do, Mike. It would be so > far off (read unattainable), it would be too depressing. I have to be a > little more here and now. > > Those that were turned off by your prices were only unable to afford > them. You do amazing things, Mike. > > Mind if I ask where your Azure box sits? > > T Suzanne currently it sits next to the fish lamp. i did'nt wash the lis off sell enough and is a little chalky, but that's ok it blends in with the dust. and it's easy enough to polish. i may actually start selling things online. i'm trying to figure out what things would sell, at what prices (figuring slightly higher to offset online costs). though i'm not sure what the best pricing method would be. i figure that someone could send me the check for the whole thing. then i'd send them the project. it's just a weird trust thing. i dunno how to work the whole thing out. since this is going out to bungi too... what so you guys think is the best money transfer method? i figure i'd set up a seperate page else where (geocities does'nt allow that kind of thing for free). right now it's just the money thing that's messing me up. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 10:53:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 09:30:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 12:37:08 +0000 Message-ID: <199902131730.MAA12061@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Grinding may be optional if you're doing lead work, but it's absolutely > necessary with copper foil, otherwise you'll slice your foil to shreds! Hmm. I wonder what those 250 women working for L.C. Tiffany building lamps did about that? No grinders back then. Heck, they hardly had any electrical lighting to speak of! T'was very much the New Thing. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 11:05:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 09:31:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: HiimLaura@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: mirror sealant Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 12:30:29 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.73029.0> References: <<1999Feb13.15146.0>> Precedence: bulk HiimLaura@aol.com wrote: > > Hello all: > > I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas concerning the protection of mirror > bottoms (boxes, candle shelters, etc.). I use the aerosol mirror edge sealant > after cutting and grinding, but once in a while I still get a small spot where > the silver will seperate from the mirror glass. Is there anything else I could > apply to the mirror back to prevent this peeling? Any advice would be > appreciated. > > Laura P > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i found the best thing to do with a mirror, is not to grind it. all those tiny chips can kill it down the line. were the spots by the edge? or in the middle? the edge sould be flux, the center would be a scratch through the coating. for boxes i've always but feet of some kind on the bottom to protect the furniture and the mirror. also be sure to use cleaners designed to clean mirror, some cleaners can actually kill a mirror. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 11:16:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 09:31:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Pricing - For a UPS Claim Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 12:37:09 +0000 Message-ID: <199902131730.MAA11363@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > covered. It doesn't matter how well you pack it, sometimes you can see tire > tracks on the boxes!! The best one I ever saw was a large carton with forklift entry holes inserted midway in the box, penetration most of the way through, too. It didn't go out that way, but it certainly came back in modified form. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 11:55:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:52:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: She's Back Again Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 18:52:49 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.185249.0> Precedence: bulk At 09:16 13/02/99 EST, Sparks wrote: > >In a message dated 2/13/99 1:00:50 AM, pkelly@n-link.com wrote: > >>( and dosage to send to Bournesmith). > >Patrick, you've poisoned the wrong woman! That's Elizabeth with a *Z* in >Bournemouth. Let's just hope she doesn't have any pets that might be tempted >to eat that fishy-smelling package........ > Well Lucifer (our Siamese) isnt that keen on fish - prefers a nice piece of chicken breast hooked gently off my plate while I'm not looking - so he might survive! Glad to hear EliSabeth is back with us at last. EliZabeth in Bournemouth ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 12:21:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:19:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!tzud2 From: Richard To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: unsubscribe Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 12:19:56 -0700 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.51956.0> Precedence: bulk Please remove us from the mailing list. Thank you. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 12:53:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:32:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Shisha mirrors Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 14:31:01 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.9311.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Pam, I think you can get those at any bead shop... you mean those = little round mirrors that are embroidered into East Indian clothing, right?? Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 12:54:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:02:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: esavad@home.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Marketing Mike! was Re: websites and Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:46:38 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.54638.0> References: <<36C5B514.5A8E@home.net>> Precedence: bulk Obviously, marketing is the secret. You can do such beautiful things, and have such an adventurous whimsical nature to your artwork. All you need is to be seen by one *right* person, and the sky is the limit for you. Your clientele would be a completely different crowd than say mine... Have you ever considered donating something of yours to be displayed at say The Rock an Roll Hall of Fame? I could see Mick Jagger buying the azure box to try to appease Jerry Hall, that sort of thing. ;o) You need an agent! ;o) Tulsa Suzanne > i may actually start selling things online. i'm trying to figure out > what things would sell, at what prices (figuring slightly higher to > offset online costs). though i'm not sure what the best pricing method > would be. i figure that someone could send me the check for the whole > thing. then i'd send them the project. it's just a weird trust thing. i > dunno how to work the whole thing out. > > since this is going out to bungi too... what so you guys think is the > best money transfer method? i figure i'd set up a seperate page else > where (geocities does'nt allow that kind of thing for free). right now > it's just the money thing that's messing me up. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 13:10:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:33:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 14:31:04 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.9314.0> Precedence: bulk Sorry, Sparks, it's absolutely not necessary with copperfoil... = we don't grind any more with foil than with lead. In a foiled = window of, say, 350 pieces, I *might grind 10 -20.... maybe. And, that's often only if the glass is thick or rippled, I grind a = bit of a bevel on each side. With good cutting and especially grozing, you'll find the foil won't tear and will stick just fine. Saves a ton of time not having to wash all that glass dust off. We never do wash the glass before foiling... we don't seem to have the problems with excess oil either. Beats me! Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 13:15:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:08:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!PDRUSS From: PDRUSS@aol.com To: alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:59:00 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb13.18590.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/13/99 1:54:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net writes: << Hmm. I wonder what those 250 women working for L.C. Tiffany building lamps did about that? No grinders back then. Heck, they hardly had any electrical lighting to speak of! T'was very much the New Thing. Albert >> I thought they had some kind of file to smooth the edges a little. Dianne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 13:24:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:33:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Glass holder Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 14:30:54 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.93054.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Shirley-- That knobby rubber net stuff your're talking about is, I think, just shelf liner... we buy rolls of it from Walmart. The first time we used it was to stand in a bath tub during an installation of a = 25 s.f. window over the tub... sure footing and no scuffs on the $2,000 tub! best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 13:31:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:46:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing, and Dani's new computer Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:46:05 -0800 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Hi Dani, How's that new computer?? Your messages are fully across the page now:):) Did something change? Actually thought the *memo size* was a trademark and I quite liked it. But this is good too, seems like more to read:) You always have alot of intelliegent things to say. And I would like to futher add to your good commments. As an artist grows in their medium and also increases the range of interests, their knowledge grows with experience and I feel it's within their right to be able to expand on their pricing...pretty much what you said, eh? *it has been said that in the world of artists, one who has had the years of experience, commands the higher prices as compared to the person who just stepped out into the field.*...and I think I just repeated myself, grin. I know this sounds contrary to what I said in prior post, but *it is* more in keeping with my thoughts...now that I have slept on it and gotten over my sparky nature. But it seems the world of art is changing and the guidlines have disapppeared and the sky is the limit for some. And has become more of an economic issue. Good work done... does speak for it's self and never have I had negative exposure because of someone else's bad work. To the contrary actually. Cindy:)...hey guys don't jump on me -on this one...I'm trying hard to sound smart:):)...but if it's coming across STUPID...just let me know:) PS...here's some notes I've collected from a seminar: -don't aim for height aim for distance. -when starting out keep the prices for you work below other artist prices for the same medium and size. -constantly seek ways of lowering the costs of producing and selling your work without compromising the quality...eg: bulk buying and doing your own framing. -constantly seeks ways of improving the quality and presentation of your work and then inform dealers and clients of these improvements. -charge 10% to 30% more for specific commissions. -be constantly observant of what sells- at what prices. these are indications of your clients "comfort zone". -vary the sizes, mediums, and dgrees of detail in your work. this will allow for different price levels in your work. -keep your "ego" in check. moving your prices up too quickly or higher than the market will bear, can slow or even stop your career- dead in it's tracks. -beware of family and friends who know little of the art market- pressuring you to raise your prices. they are well-meaning and might make you feel good, but you could end up feeling- poor. -don't raise your prices because you see other artists doing so. watch carefully to see if their work is really selling or whether it's just gathering dust. -be flexible. not all of your work will be masterpieces. understand this and price your work accordingly. -be willing and ready to negotiate. don't be offended by people who may want to "wheel and deal". by doing so they are telling you they like and want your work. -decide whether you want a fast nickel or a slow dime. ask yourself, do I want a lot of my over priced work representing my time, effort and expenses sitting in storage and gathering dust or do I want to have my resonably priced work in the possession of people who truely admire, desire and can afford it. while i have their money to continue my Art, my life and the lives of my family!!! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 13:43:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:46:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Disparity in Pricing, now orginials Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:46:43 -0800 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk A couple years ago I built a *Chagall* dovet cover... Ya mean it's not an orginial???, Cindy:) >From the keyboard of Albert: >I have a Marc Chagall print that's original. Sure, he printed >hundreds of them, but it's still from his hand and I value it for >that. (Don't get all impressed; I paid like $15 for it 30 years ago.) > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 13:53:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:47:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: uniserve.com!cpesonen From: cpesonen@uniserve.com (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: tutu selling Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:46:15 -0800 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk > >Way too cheap:) >Do I hear 24,000.00 plus a dollar?? >Now what's that in the Canadain peso?? >I'll take 2 please....VGB. >Cindy:) > > >>Ain't the free market great? Just ask Bill Gates, Donald Trump, etc. >> >>Ask and ye shall receive. Now where is that soiled TuTu. I'll sell it cheap >>.......... $12,000 U.S. (less the IGGA discount of course). $1 for each time >>I've had to repair my gnomon. Because nobody has sent me Bios for this >>Saturday's posting (note the segway into the bios). If you want the TuTu >>after Saturday it will be $12,001 U.S. >> >> >>Patrick >>Roses and Rainbows >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >> > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 13:59:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:48:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: Daniela Birkelbach Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Pattern needed Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:53:30 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.35330.0> References: <<1999Feb13.52211.0>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk Wow, I like your site. The clip art link is great. I like your SG work also. I was wondering is the rooster in your garden section is SG? If so what kind of rod do you have it attached to? I live at the coast and never think farm, but that is really cute and I would like to make one. I have a few rooster patterns, but usually just skip over them. I should think they would sell real good in Delaware, since that is the blue hen state. So, are you the lady wearing the Santa hat? And is the other Santa hat wearer going to be a after poor Patrick too? I have that wardell pattern book. They are nice, but don't quite hit it for me. I am not much of an artist. Can't think it up for myself, but know what I like when I see it. Since the 70's are back. I thought a few little ones would be good to try at my spring craft show. I always liked having one sitting on the coffee table, but I was thinking of a little one hanging in a window. Thank you for taking the time to look for me. Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 14:09:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:49:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "M. Savad" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: websites and Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:46:16 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.34616.0> Precedence: bulk >>since this is going out to bungi too... what so you guys think is the best money transfer method? i figure i'd set up a seperate page else where (geocities does'nt allow that kind of thing for free). right now it's just the money thing that's messing me up. ---Mike Savad<< I would think that a site offering stained glass for sale should have a wide range of prices. Something like a $6,000.00 lamp and a $75.00 box on each end of the offering scale. Postal money orders are perhaps the best way to go. True it is an inconvience for the sender but you are realitively sure of getting your money. Credit cards are very expensive to set up accounts, the charge amount is discounted and the charge may be cancelled. Not a good idea for the small operator. Personal checks bounce and may be cancelled before they clear. So..............go postal money orders and you can quickly ship without waiting for a check or charge to clear. You are right to be concerned about payment. There are a few people out there that would like to get something for nothing. Don't give it to them! Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass, have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 14:28:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 12:03:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 15:10:07 +0000 Message-ID: <199902132003.PAA14238@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk Simpler than that, actually. Cut a piece of glass, break it out, stroke the edge of one piece against the other like whetting a knive: stroke, stroke ... and you're done. Less than a second's work to knock the sharpness off the edge, grinder unnecessary. > I thought they had some kind of file to smooth the edges a little. > > Dianne > << > Hmm. I wonder what those 250 women working for L.C. Tiffany building > lamps did about that? No grinders back then. Heck, they hardly had > any electrical lighting to speak of! T'was very much the New Thing. > > Albert >> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 15:03:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:26:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 16:24:43 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.112443.0> References: <<199902131730.MAA12061@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis wrote: > > > Grinding may be optional if you're doing lead work, but it's absolutely > > necessary with copper foil, otherwise you'll slice your foil to > shreds! > > Hmm. I wonder what those 250 women working for L.C. Tiffany building > lamps did about that? No grinders back then. Heck, they hardly had > any electrical lighting to speak of! T'was very much the New Thing. > > Albert > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass but... would they have used a grinder if they had it back then? that's the question. i say yes they would have, if it were invented and usable. the lighting was dim, but that's all they may have had back then. for example right now i'd be using my holographic imaging system, to see if an idea would work or not. it's such a common tool, not really needed, but very useful. too bad it has'nt been invented yet, huh... 20-40 years from now people will be having a small argument about the holographic units. and why the Lewis or Savad Studios did'nt use them. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 15:27:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:32:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Witchdoc3@aol.com Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 21:26:38 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.212638.0> References: <<1999Feb13.141630.0@?>> Precedence: bulk Sparks, et. al, I managed for several years to do copper foil work without a grinder. I dulled the edges by wiping each glass edge against its off cut. If necessary to do more work on the piece, I used a small carborundum stone to smooth the edges and make some gentle alterations to the shape. Otherwise, I cut another piece. Now, of course that I am producing more things and have less time to do it in, I use a grinder. When I have to. I'd rather groze. (instead of score?) Steve In message <1999Feb13.141630.0@?>, Witchdoc3@aol.com writes > >In a message dated 2/13/99 12:02:19 AM, dodgestudio@juno.com wrote: > >>As for grinders, you've got to take care not to become a "grinder junkie" >>as we call them here. This tool is great for the occasional fix but has >>become a massive crutch. Worse yet some "evil glass teachers" or >>perhaps ones who just don't know any better have portrayed this tool as a >>"necessity" rather than a "nicety". > >Grinding may be optional if you're doing lead work, but it's absolutely >necessary with copper foil, otherwise you'll slice your foil to shreds! > > >Sparks >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 18:07:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 14:52:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY From: JJKIRBY@aol.com To: dodgestudio@juno.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 17:48:39 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb13.224839.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/12/99 9:02:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, dodgestudio@juno.com writes: << evil glass teachers" or perhaps ones who just don't know any better have portrayed this tool as a "necessity" rather than a "nicety". In the long run countless man hours are wasted playing with these "labor saving devices" that could be saved by just learning the craft properly. >> While I certainly respect the abillity to cut glass perfectly with no mechanical aids... in those rare instances when I have been able to accomplish the feat, I've found that copper foil doesn't stick well to a clean cut, so I find myself lightly grinding the edge in any case. Do you never have to use groziers either? I rarely have a smooth edge after grozing. While I agree sometimes grinding is time wasted. I think teachers want students to be able to have the satisfaction of a completed project with mimimal pain. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 18:22:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 15:46:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Grinder vs glass cutter Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 15:38:55 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.73855.0> References: <<199902132003.PAA14238@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk I know I am beating a dead horse here, but........... When thoses women made a poor cut, didn't they toss it and cut again? They did not pay for the glass and they were not paying $10/sq.ft for it. Now I like yellow, pinks, and reds, and they tend to run in that area(wholesale). So can't we use the expense, we are saving by grinding down the glass, for an excuss to use the grinder? At least until we are better glass cutters? I hear you already. The cost of the grinder, the grinder heads, the glass dust to our lungs, and the extra time it takes,costs more than recutting a piece of glass. But I still wonder!! Shirley B > > Hmm. I wonder what those 250 women working for L.C. Tiffany building > > lamps did about that? No grinders back then. Heck, they hardly had > > any electrical lighting to speak of! T'was very much the New Thing. > > > > Albert >> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 18:36:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 16:00:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: Steve Richard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 15:53:31 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.75331.0> References: <<1999Feb13.212638.0>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk I am adding this to the bumper sticker list! I'd rather groze. (instead of score?) Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 18:46:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 16:12:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: "M. Savad" Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 00:07:44 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb14.0744.0> References: <<1999Feb13.112443.0@?>> Precedence: bulk In message <1999Feb13.112443.0@?>, M. Savad writes >Albert Lewis wrote: >> >> > Grinding may be optional if you're doing lead work, but it's absolutely >> > necessary with copper foil, otherwise you'll slice your foil to >> shreds! >> >> Hmm. I wonder what those 250 women working for L.C. Tiffany building >> lamps did about that? No grinders back then. Heck, they hardly had >> any electrical lighting to speak of! T'was very much the New Thing. >> >> Albert >> ---- > >but... would they have used a grinder if they had it back then? that's >the question. i say yes they would have, if it were invented and usable. >the lighting was dim, but that's all they may have had back then. > >for example right now i'd be using my holographic imaging system, to see >if an idea would work or not. it's such a common tool, not really >needed, but very useful. too bad it has'nt been invented yet, huh... >20-40 years from now people will be having a small argument about the >holographic units. and why the Lewis or Savad Studios did'nt use them. > >---Mike Savad > Mike, Just because a machine is available doesn't make it better than another older technique, machine, etc. One of the questions to be asked is whether the grinder is better or even quicker than the older method. You will have seen Albert's description of preparing glass for foiling - score, break, wipe the edges, foil. This has to be quicker than score, break, grind, wash, dry, then foil. It is better because the score and broken edge is much smoother than the ground edge, so it takes the foil adhesive better and makes a more secure bond. So, I'd answer that the Tiffany workers (concerned as they must have been with piece rates for speed) would not choose to use the grinder extensively. It could be interesting for people to put their grinders away for the next project and see how well they really can do without spending time at the grinder. Steve -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 18:51:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 16:15:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: balloch@netbridge.net Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 00:13:13 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb14.01313.0> References: <<36C6107B.7775@netbridge.net>> Precedence: bulk Well, if anybody chooses it, it should be mysterious. Steve In message <36C6107B.7775@netbridge.net>, Shirley Balloch writes >I am adding this to the bumper sticker list! > I'd rather groze. (instead of score?) >Shirley B -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 18:58:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 17:02:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 19:42:31 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.144231.0> References: <> Precedence: bulk Steve Richard wrote: > > In message <1999Feb13.112443.0@?>, M. Savad writes > >Albert Lewis wrote: > >> > >> > Grinding may be optional if you're doing lead work, but it's absolutely > >> > necessary with copper foil, otherwise you'll slice your foil to > >> shreds! > >> > >> Hmm. I wonder what those 250 women working for L.C. Tiffany building > >> lamps did about that? No grinders back then. Heck, they hardly had > >> any electrical lighting to speak of! T'was very much the New Thing. > >> > >> Albert > >> ---- > > > >but... would they have used a grinder if they had it back then? that's > >the question. i say yes they would have, if it were invented and usable. > >the lighting was dim, but that's all they may have had back then. > > > >for example right now i'd be using my holographic imaging system, to see > >if an idea would work or not. it's such a common tool, not really > >needed, but very useful. too bad it has'nt been invented yet, huh... > >20-40 years from now people will be having a small argument about the > >holographic units. and why the Lewis or Savad Studios did'nt use them. > > > >---Mike Savad > > > Mike, > > Just because a machine is available doesn't make it better than another > older technique, machine, etc. One of the questions to be asked is > whether the grinder is better or even quicker than the older method. > You will have seen Albert's description of preparing glass for foiling - > score, break, wipe the edges, foil. This has to be quicker than score, > break, grind, wash, dry, then foil. It is better because the score and > broken edge is much smoother than the ground edge, so it takes the foil > adhesive better and makes a more secure bond. > > So, I'd answer that the Tiffany workers (concerned as they must have > been with piece rates for speed) would not choose to use the grinder > extensively. > > It could be interesting for people to put their grinders away for the > next project and see how well they really can do without spending time > at the grinder. > > Steve > -- > Steve Richard > Verrier Art Glass Ltd > s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk it all depends on the point of view of the person who does work with it. if someone works with large pieces or straight cuts, a grinder would'nt even enter your mind. if you work with alot of smaller pieces or very curvy pieces a grinder is a good idea. a few swipes with a stone may not remove that little bit of glass, that makes the project grow. i wonder how many cuts the tiffany people had foiling the glass with a few razor edges. if they did have a use of a grinder, it could have meant lamps. with fingers that may have not hurt so much... plus a fact that the glass may have been alot softer, and a stone could have removed alot of the sharpness. alot of my glass is alot harder... basically thie thread (and everytime we have one), always winds up with this: foilers say yes, leaders say no... on the average anyway. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 19:04:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 17:02:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!tifstyorig From: Diane W Manchester To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: NG-Test Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 20:00:13 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.15013.0> Precedence: bulk Sorry, but no mail today-at all-so I'm sending a test to see if I'm off the list or if it's my email service. Diane M. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 19:11:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 17:53:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "M. Savad" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 17:51:06 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.9516.0> Precedence: bulk >>for example right now i'd be using my holographic imaging system, to see if an idea would work or not. it's such a common tool, not really needed, but very useful. too bad it has'nt been invented yet, huh... 20-40 years from now people will be having a small argument about the holographic units. and why the Lewis or Savad Studios did'nt use them. ---Mike Savad<< I've got the answer, "Savad at least had electricity in his studio and might have gotten ahold of one of the early models. How else could he have done sky city!" Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass, have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 19:57:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 18:59:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Another bumper sticker... for some Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 21:57:19 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.165719.0> Precedence: bulk One more for the list: Stained glass is a grind. ;-) Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 20:11:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 18:42:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 21:10:39 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.161039.0> Precedence: bulk Oh, another bumper sticker.... Stained glass groze on you. Yuck. Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 20:28:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 19:15:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: hotmail.com!moondancer44 From: "Linda Johnson" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: UNSUSCRIBE Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 17:26:40 PST Message-ID: <1999Feb14.12640.0> Precedence: bulk ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 20:45:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 19:30:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mindspring.com!juliam From: "Julia Moseley" To: "M. Savad" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 19:34:26 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.113426.0> Precedence: bulk I'm relatively new to things and did my first five projects (3 lead, 2 foil) all without a grinder. I love doing leaded work (can't explain why, but I like it better), and I finally went out and bought a grinder. I'm a real perfectionist, and no matter how good the score, it seems like once in a while there's a piece that causes everything to creep just a little. The grinder makes bringing that piece back into line much quicker and easier, and saves the expense of recutting. I can see it both ways and I think beginners should be encouraged to work without the grinder as a "safety net". On the other hand, when on the verge of tears with a first project, an instructor with a grinder "up their sleeve" can save the day. To me, it's a matter of how much, how often, and less is always better. Julia Moseley Kirkland, WA P.S. Is there a way to NOT get the NG discussions? They flood my mailbox, and unfortunately, it's not easy to set up a rule for NG... lots of words END in "ng" like thinking, grinding, etc. Any ideas would be appreciated. -----Original Message----- From: M. Savad To: glass@bungi.com Date: Saturday, February 13, 1999 5:02 PM Subject: Re: Advice on first tools >Steve Richard wrote: >> >> In message <1999Feb13.112443.0@?>, M. Savad writes >> >Albert Lewis wrote: >> >> >> >> > Grinding may be optional if you're doing lead work, but it's absolutely >> >> > necessary with copper foil, otherwise you'll slice your foil to >> >> shreds! >> >> >> >> Hmm. I wonder what those 250 women working for L.C. Tiffany building >> >> lamps did about that? No grinders back then. Heck, they hardly had >> >> any electrical lighting to speak of! T'was very much the New Thing. >> >> >> >> Albert >> >> ---- >> > >> >but... would they have used a grinder if they had it back then? that's >> >the question. i say yes they would have, if it were invented and usable. >> >the lighting was dim, but that's all they may have had back then. >> > >> >for example right now i'd be using my holographic imaging system, to see >> >if an idea would work or not. it's such a common tool, not really >> >needed, but very useful. too bad it has'nt been invented yet, huh... >> >20-40 years from now people will be having a small argument about the >> >holographic units. and why the Lewis or Savad Studios did'nt use them. >> > >> >---Mike Savad >> > >> Mike, >> >> Just because a machine is available doesn't make it better than another >> older technique, machine, etc. One of the questions to be asked is >> whether the grinder is better or even quicker than the older method. >> You will have seen Albert's description of preparing glass for foiling - >> score, break, wipe the edges, foil. This has to be quicker than score, >> break, grind, wash, dry, then foil. It is better because the score and >> broken edge is much smoother than the ground edge, so it takes the foil >> adhesive better and makes a more secure bond. >> >> So, I'd answer that the Tiffany workers (concerned as they must have >> been with piece rates for speed) would not choose to use the grinder >> extensively. >> >> It could be interesting for people to put their grinders away for the >> next project and see how well they really can do without spending time >> at the grinder. >> >> Steve >> -- >> Steve Richard >> Verrier Art Glass Ltd >> s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk > > >it all depends on the point of view of the person who does work with it. >if someone works with large pieces or straight cuts, a grinder would'nt >even enter your mind. if you work with alot of smaller pieces or very >curvy pieces a grinder is a good idea. a few swipes with a stone may not >remove that little bit of glass, that makes the project grow. > >i wonder how many cuts the tiffany people had foiling the glass with a >few razor edges. if they did have a use of a grinder, it could have >meant lamps. with fingers that may have not hurt so much... plus a fact >that the glass may have been alot softer, and a stone could have removed >alot of the sharpness. alot of my glass is alot harder... > > >basically thie thread (and everytime we have one), always winds up with >this: foilers say yes, leaders say no... on the average anyway. > > >---Mike Savad > >-- >Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos >http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 >2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance >Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification >too and A Look at Sky City >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 20:59:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 19:51:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: "M. Savad" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 21:56:03 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.15563.0> References: <<1999Feb13.144231.0>> Precedence: bulk Well, I for one will be keeping my grinder! After breaking a peice or two getting an inside curve out, The last think I want to do is lose it again by grozing. I am not the greatest grozer. I use my carborundum? file to to take off the little razor edges, but if there is a rough spot from having to take several scores and breaks to get my peice, I use my grinder. I want my glass to fit tight. Doesnt take but even a tiny spot to knock it all off. If I groze it, it would take too much off. I can take a bit off that is imperceptable to the eye with my grinder, and have it fit just right. Or I can leave it by not grinding and have a gap somewhere else because is the fit is off. Grinding also protects my fingers, I *still* have a tendency to rub my finger over the edges of my glass. It is a sick obcession. I cant seem to stop. I have almost needed stitches due to this. Luckily glass cuts are so clean, they come together and heal pretty quickly. T Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 21:14:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 19:39:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: HiimLaura@aol.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: mirror sealant Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 19:38:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1999Feb13.113851.0> References: <<1999Feb13.15146.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi Laura: In addition to the mirror edge sealant, I use clear fingernail polish on the edges of the mirror before I foil it. So are this seems to have prevent the 'black rot' caused by the flux/corrosion. Peggy On Sat, 13 Feb 1999 HiimLaura@aol.com wrote: > > Hello all: > > I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas concerning the protection of mirror > bottoms (boxes, candle shelters, etc.). I use the aerosol mirror edge sealant > after cutting and grinding, but once in a while I still get a small spot where > the silver will seperate from the mirror glass. Is there anything else I could > apply to the mirror back to prevent this peeling? Any advice would be > appreciated. > > Laura P > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 21:32:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 20:03:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Bob E Duchesneau Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 22:06:49 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.16649.0> References: <<1999Feb12.54233.0>> Precedence: bulk > When S of Tulsa gets on line I will do a far better job. Bob > I cant imagine what I would even think of attemting at this point in time that would cost anywhere near $1000! Ok...Bob, you've seen a good deal of my stuff that is pretty representational. You also know how I charge. In your opinion..am I off? Should I charge less, more? S *in* not of* Tulsa ;o) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 21:46:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 20:12:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netusa1.net!t6686 From: L Nelson To: Shirley Balloch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Grinder vs glass cutter Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:24:06 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.15246.0> References: <<1999Feb13.73855.0>> Precedence: bulk I know I'm new to this but when I took a class we were not told about danger in glass dust?? and I was told there was no way to do stained glass with out a grinder and I wish I didn't but I use my grinder WAY to much... but my teacher kinda taught us to use it if we didn't cut pc right.. Shirley Balloch wrote: > I know I am beating a dead horse here, but........... > When thoses women made a poor cut, didn't they toss it and cut again? > They did not pay for the glass and they were not paying $10/sq.ft for > it. Now I like yellow, pinks, and reds, and they tend to run in that > area(wholesale). > So can't we use the expense, we are saving by grinding down the glass, > for an excuss to use the grinder? > At least until we are better glass cutters? > I hear you already. The cost of the grinder, the grinder heads, the > glass dust to our lungs, and the extra time it takes,costs more than > recutting a piece of glass. > But I still wonder!! > Shirley B > > > Hmm. I wonder what those 250 women working for L.C. Tiffany building > > > lamps did about that? No grinders back then. Heck, they hardly had > > > any electrical lighting to speak of! T'was very much the New Thing. > > > > > > Albert >> > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 22:00:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 20:20:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netusa1.net!t6686 From: L Nelson To: Dani Greer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 23:32:10 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.153210.0> References: <<1999Feb13.161039.0>> Precedence: bulk I like it... Kinda cute..Laura Dani Greer wrote: > Oh, another bumper sticker.... > > Stained glass groze on you. > > Yuck. > > Best, > > Dani Greer > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 22:36:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 21:06:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: Dani Greer Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------09FD9F07A93353FA18F101EB" Subject: Re: Shisha mirrors Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 21:08:00 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.1380.0> References: <<1999Feb13.9311.0>> Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk --------------09FD9F07A93353FA18F101EB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dani Greer wrote: > Hi Pam, > > I think you can get those at any bead shop... you mean those = > > little round mirrors that are embroidered into East Indian clothing, > right?? Well actually I'm not sure, yes and no :) Do you remember that awesome site where that fabo artist used mirrors in mosaics? We had a thread going awhile ago on this subject. http://www.erols.com/masont/ I've been there a few times and I'm wondering how the glass is used. It looks as if the glass work has to be cut in order to form the mosaic designs. I know there are craft mirrors as some call them. But I sure don't think those are used here. So back to this fabo guy and this site again I don't think we ever did figure out how he did this. Any idea's Dani? I'm almost tempted to e-mail him personally and ask for goodness sake. It really is incredible how this looks in my opinion. The light is reflected, it's not a clear glass type of medium. A little history on shisha mirrors Shisha mirror's are used in embroidery in Pakistan, Afghanistan and India. The first shisha mirrors were actually chips of mica, and silvery insect wings, but in the early 16th century, the first small mirrors were manufactured from sand, lime and soda in small furnaces. They were called shisha, the Hindustani word for "glass" or "mirror." Now there are shisha mirrors that are used for glass work, the only suppliers are in the U.K. etc. that I could find. I don't think the embroidery mirrors are the same but I may be wrong. I'm totally perplexed. Pam ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists Moswood Mountain Limited http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1 --------------09FD9F07A93353FA18F101EB Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dani Greer wrote:
Hi Pam,

I think you can get those at any bead shop... you mean those =

little round mirrors that are embroidered into East Indian clothing,
right??

Well actually I'm not sure, yes and no :) Do you remember that awesome site where that fabo artist used mirrors in mosaics? We had a thread going awhile ago on this subject.
http://www.erols.com/masont/

I've been there a few times and I'm wondering how the glass is used. It looks as if the glass work has to be cut in order to form the mosaic designs. I know there are craft mirrors as some call them. But I sure don't think those are used here. So back to this fabo guy and this site again I don't think we ever did figure out how he did this. Any idea's Dani? I'm almost tempted to e-mail him personally and ask for goodness sake. It really is incredible how this looks in my opinion. The light is reflected, it's not a clear glass type of medium.

A little history on shisha mirrors

Shisha mirror's are used in embroidery in Pakistan, Afghanistan and India. The first
shisha mirrors were actually chips of mica, and silvery insect wings, but in the early
16th century, the first small mirrors were manufactured from sand, lime and soda in
small furnaces. They were called shisha, the Hindustani word for "glass" or "mirror."

Now there are shisha mirrors that are used for glass work, the only suppliers are in the U.K. etc. that I could find. I don't think the embroidery mirrors are the same but I may be wrong.

I'm totally perplexed.

Pam
 
 
 

*********************************

Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director
The Stained Glass Artists
http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists

Moswood Mountain Limited
http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited
http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1
  --------------09FD9F07A93353FA18F101EB-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 13 23:06:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 21:35:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!vlg From: "Vincent LaGreca" To: "Dani Greer" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Another bumper sticker... for some Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 00:34:59 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.193459.0> Precedence: bulk How about: "Once you learn how to Score, Grinding and Grozing comes easy." Or: Grozing in the Glass. Ciao Vic -----Original Message----- From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Date: Saturday, February 13, 1999 11:11 PM Subject: Another bumper sticker... for some >One more for the list: > >Stained glass is a grind. > >;-) Dani Greer >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 01:45:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 00:37:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Disparity in Pricing, and Dani's new computer Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 03:30:07 -0500 Message-ID: <199902140830.DAA10745@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 2/13/99 2:46 PM Cindy Pesonen cpesonen@uniserve.com Cindy, some very good points. Thanks for sharing them with us! Suzanne > >PS...here's some notes I've collected from a seminar: > >-don't aim for height aim for distance. > >-when starting out keep the prices for you work below other artist prices >for the same medium and size. > >-constantly seek ways of lowering the costs of producing and selling your >work without compromising the quality...eg: bulk buying and doing your own >framing. > >-constantly seeks ways of improving the quality and presentation of your >work and then inform dealers and clients of these improvements. > >-charge 10% to 30% more for specific commissions. > >-be constantly observant of what sells- at what prices. these are >indications of your clients "comfort zone". > >-vary the sizes, mediums, and dgrees of detail in your work. this will allow >for different price levels in your work. > >-keep your "ego" in check. moving your prices up too quickly or higher than >the market will bear, can slow or even stop your career- dead in it's tracks. > >-beware of family and friends who know little of the art market- pressuring >you to raise your prices. they are well-meaning and might make you feel >good, but you could end up feeling- poor. > >-don't raise your prices because you see other artists doing so. watch >carefully to see if their work is really selling or whether it's just >gathering dust. > >-be flexible. not all of your work will be masterpieces. understand this and >price your work accordingly. > >-be willing and ready to negotiate. don't be offended by people who may want >to "wheel and deal". by doing so they are telling you they like and want >your work. > >-decide whether you want a fast nickel or a slow dime. ask yourself, do I >want a lot of my over priced work representing my time, effort and expenses >sitting in storage and gathering dust or do I want to have my resonably >priced work in the possession of people who truely admire, desire and can >afford it. while i have their money to continue my Art, my life and the >lives of my family!!! > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 03:00:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 01:21:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Grinder vs glass cutter Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 04:27:40 +0000 Message-ID: <199902140920.EAA22236@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > I know I am beating a dead horse here, but........... > When thoses women made a poor cut, didn't they toss it and cut again? > They did not pay for the glass and they were not paying $10/sq.ft for > it. If Louis Tiffany was anything, he was a businessman first and foremost. Okay, he was an artist, too, and quite a good painter, but he excelled at business. The glass was manufacturered to his specifications by outfits he had "locked down" contractually, and while none of the glass would have cost $10/ft2 at the time (nothing was as expensive then as now), it would have been a considerable expense. Waste would have meant lost profits. A poor cutter wouldn't have lasted as an employee, most certainly not a female employee. > So can't we use the expense, we are saving by grinding down the glass, > for an excuss to use the grinder? > At least until we are better glass cutters? You see, that's the thing. Glass teachers these days who have their students learn to cut glass with a grinder close at hand are actually crippling their students in a way. It's like teaching a child to walk by insisting they use a walker like an 80-year-old. They'd never learn to walk correctly. Personally, I'd say that nobody learning to work with stained glass should be allowed to use a grinder until they'd learned to cut confidently and accurately most of the time. Using a grinder doesn't make you a bad person; you're just not allowing yourself to reach the level of technical ability that would mark you as a good craftsman. My opinion, natch. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 03:48:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 02:14:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep From: "Brian Shepherd" To: "bungi" Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 10:04:59 -0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb14.10459.0> Precedence: bulk Hello Ok if we aren't going to slam peoples work or pricing then let's slam their techniques! BG I don't think anybody would deny that there people in this world who are better at cutting glass that others - they must be they tell us so! Ok then that gives us all something to aspire to. I admire all skilled people. No skills are easily won and they are priceless to those who have them and a wonder to observe. We all venerate craftsmanship! We should all remember that a grinder is an enabling tool. It allows people to make things in stained glass without having to acquire the cutting skills first. I don't think there is anything wrong with that in this urgent age. I began by grozing from the start. My cutting was appalling. Then I got a grinder so I groze then ground to shape. As my skills improved I gave up nearly!) grozing and ground only. Now I ALWAYS grind lightly (at least!) just so that I can handle and foil the piece with confidence. I will not be admonished for using a work pattern that suits me! So all you non grinders can go around patting your selves and your friends on the back and feeling holier than everybody else if it makes you happy - you deserve it. All you grinders need feel no remorse. You are good guys as well! Your skills will come if you work at them but you have no reason to feel humbled in the presence of all this greatness! Anyway - it's results that matter - who cares how you make it - if it's beautiful it's beautiful! :o) BtB PS I don't think the LCT factory would have used a grinder - ever! I think they would have used one of these high pressure water cutter thingies if they had been available! PPS On second thoughts maybe LCT would have used a completely automated assembly plant - if they had been available. The only thing he might have resisted would have been automatic colour selection (for a while at least!) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 05:40:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 04:18:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!SGriffiSBG From: SGriffiSBG@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; Subject: Fwd: Grinder vs glass cutter Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 07:17:20 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb14.121720.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_918994640_boundary Content-ID: <0_918994640@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Don't you think if the even HAD grinders BACK THEN they would have used them? No doubt they hand filed everything. --part0_918994640_boundary Content-ID: <0_918994640@inet_out.mail.alpha.nad.adelphia.net.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-zd01.mx.aol.com (rly-zd01.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.225]) by air-zd01.mail.aol.com (v56.26) with SMTP; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 06:00:56 -0500 Received: from daver.bungi.com (daver.bungi.com [207.126.97.2]) by rly-zd01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id GAA02090; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 06:00:31 -0500 (EST) Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 01:21:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Grinder vs glass cutter Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 04:27:40 +0000 Message-ID: <199902140920.EAA22236@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > I know I am beating a dead horse here, but........... > When thoses women made a poor cut, didn't they toss it and cut again? > They did not pay for the glass and they were not paying $10/sq.ft for > it. If Louis Tiffany was anything, he was a businessman first and foremost. Okay, he was an artist, too, and quite a good painter, but he excelled at business. The glass was manufacturered to his specifications by outfits he had "locked down" contractually, and while none of the glass would have cost $10/ft2 at the time (nothing was as expensive then as now), it would have been a considerable expense. Waste would have meant lost profits. A poor cutter wouldn't have lasted as an employee, most certainly not a female employee. > So can't we use the expense, we are saving by grinding down the glass, > for an excuss to use the grinder? > At least until we are better glass cutters? You see, that's the thing. Glass teachers these days who have their students learn to cut glass with a grinder close at hand are actually crippling their students in a way. It's like teaching a child to walk by insisting they use a walker like an 80-year-old. They'd never learn to walk correctly. Personally, I'd say that nobody learning to work with stained glass should be allowed to use a grinder until they'd learned to cut confidently and accurately most of the time. Using a grinder doesn't make you a bad person; you're just not allowing yourself to reach the level of technical ability that would mark you as a good craftsman. My opinion, natch. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass --part0_918994640_boundary-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 07:12:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 05:44:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Grinder vs glass cutter Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 08:50:29 +0000 Message-ID: <199902141343.IAA22546@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Don't you think if the even HAD grinders BACK THEN they would have used them? > No doubt they hand filed everything. Nope, don't think so. They just cut the glass correctly the first time. A ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 08:16:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 06:33:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Treki Fan? Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 09:32:56 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb14.43256.0> Precedence: bulk Yeah! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 09:50:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 08:07:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: mirror sealant Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:05:39 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb14.16539.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Laura, I must agree with Peggy about using the clear nail polish (lacquer) on the edges of the mirror. I also use the nail polish on the very inside and outside edge of the mirror where it may have chipped a bit. I believe it is the chipping that may have caused your intermittant problem. Also, when you spray the sealant, sometimes, you do not get the sides of the mirror. I have never had black rot after doing both steps. The time it takes to insure an unspoiled mirror is well worth the cost of the extra time to me. Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 10:51:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 09:04:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Grinder vs glass cutter Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:04:17 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb14.17417.0> Precedence: bulk At 04:27 14/02/99 +0000, Albert wrote: >You see, that's the thing. Glass teachers these days who have their >students learn to cut glass with a grinder close at hand are actually >crippling their students in a way. It's like teaching a child to walk >by insisting they use a walker like an 80-year-old. They'd never >learn to walk correctly. Personally, I'd say that nobody learning to >work with stained glass should be allowed to use a grinder until >they'd learned to cut confidently and accurately most of the time. > >Using a grinder doesn't make you a bad person; you're just not >allowing yourself to reach the level of technical ability that would >mark you as a good craftsman. > >My opinion, natch. Just our philosophy too Albert. We try to instill some accuracy into our students before even letting them loose on our grinders. Not because we are mean or trying to hold them back but to make them learn to cut better. What is the point of them paying us to teach them if we withold the extra time it takes to impart accuracy? After all anyone can teach themselves to cut glass to shape with a grinder and bandsaw at their elbow. There is a studio/retail shop a few miles away from us who insist that their students should buy a grinder after a couple of lessons as if it is one of the basic tools needed to get started. It makes teaching much easier for their staff who have only a rudimentary grasp of cutting techniques themselves. It also means that their students on the whole have no idea how to approach cutting a difficult curve - and in effect dont try to be accurate as they have been taught that it is normal to grind anything but a shallow easy curve. And of course the business sells lots of grinders which is good for their cash flow! We have never ground all the edges on copper foiled work just to help the foil stick and havent the time to waste on the extra washing and drying of the glass that others have mentioned, but have had no problem with our foil - we even use old foil that has been out of the packet for several years without problems. Must be the bracing sea air of sunny Bournemouth! Elizabeth Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 11:52:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 10:02:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw From: "Granny And PawPaw" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Tools, Etc. Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:55:23 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb14.75523.0> Precedence: bulk Advances are made in tools and, well just about everything, because we fill a need. If molding cutters and shapers weren't invented we would still be whittling molding. 50 years ago the attempts to do open heart surgery were doomed to failure. The know how and tools were not available. I do, teach and sell a lot of stained glass, both finished goods and parts. I use and teach with all the tools available to me. My students can work as they want, but they learn how to use grinders, saws, came stretchers, Morton system, etc. They also learn that if their work doesn't make them happy that they should scrap it. They should also sign their work because they're proud of it. I defy anyone to tell by examining a finished piece if a grinder was or wasn't used. I am no purist; but I love good work. Arnold ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 12:45:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:27:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Grinder vs glass cutter Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:32:45 +0000 Message-ID: <199902141925.OAA27209@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > the basic tools needed to get started. It makes teaching much easier for > their staff who have only a rudimentary grasp of cutting techniques themselves. > And of course the business sells lots of grinders which is good for their > cash flow! Oops! The retailers will be out in force now, saying that we're "beating them up," or "not being nice" to them. But it's true here in the States (and apparently in the UK, as well) that many who open retail shops have only a rudimentary knowledge and skill set themselves. They learned the grinder "shortcut," so that's all they can teach. There's a place for a grinder, but it should be a seldom-used piece of equipment if one's interested in becoming a "skilled craftsperson" in the usual sense of the words. "Cash flow" drives lots of different kinds of businesses, but it doesn't necessarily drive quality at the same time. My humble opinion, of course. Others will beg to differ, I know. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 13:13:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:54:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: gjr From: gjr (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: My lead restoration project Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:53:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk If anyone is interested, you can see my new lead project at http://www.bungi.com/glass/glenna/lead.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 13:20:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:10:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!stainglasborzoi From: stainglasborzoi@webtv.net (GLORIA DRAG) To: GreerStudios@compuserve.com (Dani Greer-), glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary=WebTV-Mail-1254689628-2 Subject: Re: Shisha mirrors Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:09:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1999Feb14.10911.0> References: <> Precedence: bulk --WebTV-Mail-1254689628-2 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Honestly, I am not on their payroll, but National Artcraft has 1/2" round and 1/2" square mirrors if that helps.. 5 packs of 10 for $0.70 per 5 pack.. --WebTV-Mail-1254689628-2 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from mailsorter-101-3.iap.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.99) by postoffice-242.iap.bryant.webtv.net; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:09:25 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from daver.bungi.com (daver.bungi.com [207.126.97.2]) by mailsorter-101-3.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.graham.14Aug97) with ESMTP id NAA27670; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:09:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:32:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Shisha mirrors Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 14:31:01 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb13.9311.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Pam, I think you can get those at any bead shop... you mean those = little round mirrors that are embroidered into East Indian clothing, right?? Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass --WebTV-Mail-1254689628-2-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 13:31:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:33:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!stainglasborzoi From: stainglasborzoi@webtv.net (GLORIA DRAG) To: GreerStudios@compuserve.com (Dani Greer), glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary=WebTV-Mail-314095126-42 Subject: Re: Arab Doors Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:32:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1999Feb14.103212.0> References: <> Precedence: bulk --WebTV-Mail-314095126-42 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Did not know that. Thank you Albert, and tis a small world, but would not want to paint it.. hehehe Gloria --WebTV-Mail-314095126-42 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from mailsorter-101-3.iap.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.99) by postoffice-242.iap.bryant.webtv.net; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:43:15 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from hpamgaaa.compuserve.com (ah-img-1.compuserve.com [149.174.217.154]) by mailsorter-101-3.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.graham.14Aug97) with ESMTP id SAA18597; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:43:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.0) id VAA17387 for stainglasborzoi@webtv.net; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:43:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:42:37 -0500 From: Dani Greer Subject: Arab Doors Sender: Dani Greer To: GLORIA DRAG Message-ID: <199902112142_MC2-6A36-1235@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Published by our own Albert of Art in Architecture Press! Small world, no?! Best, Dani Greer --WebTV-Mail-314095126-42-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 14:04:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:15:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mb.sympatico.ca!mb.sympatico.ca From: Darlene Hendler To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: cutting vs. grinding Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:14:05 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb14.7145.0> Precedence: bulk you all raise an interesting dilemma. My problem is that I'd rather not grind as much as I do, but am not very proficient at cutting. Anybody have any tips for more accurate cutting? Thanks, Darlene ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 14:36:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:47:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY From: JJKIRBY@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; Subject: Fwd: Grinder vs glass cutter Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:45:01 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb14.21451.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_919028702_boundary Content-ID: <0_919028702@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In a message dated 2/14/99 1:42:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, JJKIRBY writes: << << Using a grinder doesn't make you a bad person; you're just not allowing yourself to reach the level of technical ability that would mark you as a good craftsman. >> The Luddites have won me over, I've fired up my barbeque and put my "irons in the fire" - having thrown out my Weller as well as all that other stuff. Interesting concept - using a grinder doesn't make you a bad person, just less of a "good craftsman". In fact, the entire craft is too dependent on tools entirely, I saw a show where the early cavemen apparently chewed pigment and spit it on the walls of the caves - there's some craftsmanship! Craftspeople of the world unite! Throw off your grinders, and irons, and saws! >> --part0_919028702_boundary Content-ID: <0_919028702@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: JJKIRBY@aol.com Return-path: To: alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net Subject: Re: Grinder vs glass cutter Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:42:53 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit << Using a grinder doesn't make you a bad person; you're just not allowing yourself to reach the level of technical ability that would mark you as a good craftsman. >> The Luddites have won me over, I've fired up my barbeque and put my "irons in the fire" - having thrown out my Weller as well as all that other stuff. Interesting concept - using a grinder doesn't make you a bad person, just less of a "good craftsman". In fact, the entire craft is too dependent on tools entirely, I saw a show where the early cavemen apparently chewed pigment and spit it on the walls of the caves - there's some craftsmanship! Craftspeople of the world unite! Throw off your grinders, and irons, and saws! --part0_919028702_boundary-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 16:12:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:29:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: balloch@netbridge.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Bumper stickers so far Revised Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:59:04 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb14.6594.0> References: <<36C61046.1127@netbridge.net>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk Shirley Balloch wrote: > > Shirley Balloch wrote: > > > > Shirley Balloch wrote: > > > > > > Shirley Balloch wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You bet your sweet glass... > > > > > A Glass of It's Own > > > > > Get Glassed! > > > > > Glassified > > > > > "I'd rather be scoring" > > > > > Torched. > > > > > "snaps under pressure" > > > > > > "on the cutting edge" > > > > > > "grinds with the best of 'em" > > > > > > "%$&#, foiled again!" > > > > > "Leaded be" > > > > > ... and leaded be Light. > > > > > And God saw it was good. > > > > > Curses, Foiled again. > > > > > "Glass Artists Say No to Crack!" > > > > > > > > > > Honk if you love stained glass" > > > > > "If you seek beauty, work with stained glass" > > > > > "Visualize....stained glass" > > > > > My windows can beat your windows" > > > > > /\ _________________ > > > > > / \ > > > > > \ / > > > > > / \ \ Stained Glass / > > > > > / Beauty \ \ on / > > > > > / on \ \ Board / > > > > > / Board \ \ / > > > > > /____________\ \_______/ > > > > > "View the world through stained glass" > > > > > "glassers know the score." > > > > > "glassers know how to score." > > > > > > > > > > "Get your Glass in Gear!" > > > > > > > > > > "Lead, Foil, or get out of the way!" > > > > > > > > > > "My other car is a Kiln" > > > > > > > > > > "Don't laugh, I spend my $$$ on Glass." > > > > > > > > > > "Aw flux, foiled again!" > > > > > > > > > > "To bead, or not to bead" (Shakespeare) > > > > > > > > > > "Keep your glass to the grindstone" > > > > > > > > > > "Oh, Frit...blasted again!" > > > > > > > > > > "Use Came, or Foil, Then Solder" (Caesar said it best! I came, I saw.. > > > > > well > > > > > you know) > > > > > > > > > > "Working my Glass Off!" (has a double meaning) > > > > > > > > > > "You have got to be fidding?" (Now I am killing myself!!! LOL) > > > > > > > > > > "Grozing in the Glass" song - (Grazing in the grass) > > > > > > > > > > "Got Glass?" (and we could all have little glass moustaches) > > > > > > > > > > "Super cooled liquid manipulator" (okay, a little on the egghead side) > > > > > > > > > > "Heart of Glass" (Blondie's back you know?) > > > > > > > > > > GIVE BLOOD > > > > > become a stained-glass artist > > > > > Stained Glass Artists - a cut above the rest. > > > > > The Pane ........ ohhhhh the Pane. > > > > > "Life is a multicolored Pane." > > > > > > > > > > "Life is a Pane in the Glass" > > > > > > > > > > "I look at life thru multicolored glasses" > > > > > > > > > > "If the pieces fit.....solder them!" > > > > I'd rather be scoring ..... than snoring! > > > I'd rather be leading > > > If Stained Glass was cheap and easy, everybody would be doing it!! > > "lead, foil, or get the hell out of the way!" > > "> "Lead, follow, or get the h*ll out of the way!" > I'd rather groze. (instead of score?) > If Stained Glass was cheap and easy, everybody would be doing it!! > "The Brit Chick Rules". > I'd rather groze. (instead of score?) > Stained glass is a grind. Stained glass groze on you. Geez...I'd rather score (or get lucky) anyday!! "Once you learn how to Score, Grinding and Grozing comes easy." Grozing in the Glass. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 16:42:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:42:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!stainglasborzoi From: stainglasborzoi@webtv.net (GLORIA DRAG) To: gjr@daver.bungi.com (Glenna Rand), glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary=WebTV-Mail-12892805-224 Subject: Re: My lead restoration project Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:41:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1999Feb14.13416.0> Precedence: bulk --WebTV-Mail-12892805-224 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit NIce work. I never did a restoration., Thanks for sharing, Gloria --WebTV-Mail-12892805-224 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from mailsorter-101-3.iap.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.99) by postoffice-241.iap.bryant.webtv.net; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:36:51 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from daver.bungi.com (daver.bungi.com [207.126.97.2]) by mailsorter-101-3.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.graham.14Aug97) with ESMTP id NAA07013; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:36:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:54:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@daver.bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: My lead restoration project Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:53:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk If anyone is interested, you can see my new lead project at http://www.bungi.com/glass/glenna/lead.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass --WebTV-Mail-12892805-224-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 17:13:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:11:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: cutting vs. grinding Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:17:16 +0000 Message-ID: <199902150010.TAA00251@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > you all raise an interesting dilemma. My problem is that I'd rather not > grind as much as I do, but am not very proficient at cutting. Anybody > have any tips for more accurate cutting? The same way you get to Carnegie Hall. Practice, practice, practice. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 17:35:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:17:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!MISGLAS From: MISGLAS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE: Glenna's restoration project Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:15:06 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb15.0156.0> Precedence: bulk Glenna: what an amazing transformation! You made something very lovely out of a mess. The proper aging will do it every time! Kathi from Wisconsin ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 17:43:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:31:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: JJKIRBY@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:26:46 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb14.142646.0> Precedence: bulk JJKIRBY writes: > > >While I certainly respect the abillity to cut glass perfectly with no mechanical >aids... in those rare instances when I have been able to accomplish the feat, >I've found that copper foil doesn't stick well to a clean cut, so I find myself lightly >grinding the edge in any case. Copper foil will stick fine to a clean cut but not to DIRTY GLASS. Try just dipping your well cut pieces in plain water and towel drying them and I'll bet that problem would be solved. > >Do you never have to use groziers either? I rarely have a smooth edge >after >grozing. > >While I agree sometimes grinding is time wasted. I think teachers >want students to be able to have the satisfaction of a completed project >with mimimal pain. Don't get me wrong. I never said that I am against the use of grinders. I allow my students to use grinders in class but they must use it only when necessary, as an easy alternative to a grozing plier. I've had many students take my class that had been instructed elsewhere that the proper stained glass technique involves intentionally cutting every piece of glass too large or with no allowance for foil, then grinding each piece down to size. This is almost as absurd as a carpenter replacing his saw with a belt sander. I start every beginner class by making a small panel and explaining all the techniques used along the way. Just to prove the point I never use the grinder on this project but always demonstrate the use of the grinder on scrap as an alternative to grozing. The BIG problem all begins because the beginner is allowed by this flawed technique of OVER GRINDING to produce a product that is deceptively good. Once having made a nice looking product, the thought of the next not being as good or better is unbearable. Sure they'd like to try cutting the glass better but the fear that it will come out too small and the solder lines will be fat or uneven is overwhelming. Almost from the first project they're hooked! I tell my students that there is no shame in making an imperfect piece. "Send it off to your relatives in California. They'll LOVE it and you won't have to look at it. Each piece will be better than the last and you'll quickly learn to do it better." Currently there has been a lot of discussion about the prices on that lady's web site. Someone pointed out the hourly rate, calculated by dividing the price by her claimed hours, result in wages that are not beyond reason, something like $25.00/ hour. This may be so, but taking that long to make those products IS WAY beyond reason. If that is the case the client is being asked to pay extra for inexperience and flawed technique. Perhaps another element in the price is a few nice new grinder heads per panel? Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 17:58:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:32:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Glenna Rand" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: My lead restoration project Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:29:31 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb14.82931.0> Precedence: bulk Glenna writes: >>If anyone is interested, you can see my new lead project at http://www.bungi.com/glass/glenna/lead.html<< Restoration? Hell, I call that post demolation salvation. It is much harder to restore a window that is missing areas of glass because the new glass must be cut to fit with the existing glass. In this case I would have charged more to repair the window than to make a brand new one of the same pattern because the skill and labor would have been more. Did you brush up that nice black patina or what? Looks great. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass, have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 17:59:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:04:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: subscribe Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:59:50 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb14.145950.0> Precedence: bulk Hi, either it's real quiet here or I've been cut off. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 19:12:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:17:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: tiime/cost of finished product Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:17:07 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb14.10177.0> Precedence: bulk I have over the years (see archives) ALWAYS advocated keeping time of how long a "project" takes. A simple analog clock and a on/off switch works fine. I know how many square feet I used to make a shade, solder, foil, filigree and or hardware, jewels and so on. Some of my shades may only use 2 or a fraction more sq. feet of glass and sell for ONLY $2,200 (without base)....That is only a $1,000 or so per square foot....A VERY POOR example of a like shade from elsewhere may sell for $199.00, and should that influence my pricing.......I think NOT!!!!!!!!!!!! No easy answer to pricing, some work only to stay busy, others to replace material, some for FAMILY (UGH!), some guess at a price, some for the privilege to be exploited, and a few who do it as a profession. I do other things for free but NOT GLASS! ( with the exception of occasional and selected "net advice). I volunteer at 2 marine facilities (handle and feed and work with 6 or 7 octopuses) , assist friends with FREE investing advice, both "net" and broker type. The old saw "if you have to ask how much it costs. you cannot afford it".....hopefully reflects my clients. later, H ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 19:31:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:32:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw From: "Granny And PawPaw" To: "bungi" , "Albert Lewis" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Grinder vs glass cutter Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:24:40 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb14.162440.0> Precedence: bulk Albert, you're right....But I'll take the telephone over smoke signals any time,,, Arnold -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis To: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 3:54 PM Subject: Re: Grinder vs glass cutter > >> the basic tools needed to get started. It makes teaching much easier for >> their staff who have only a rudimentary grasp of cutting techniques themselves. > >> And of course the business sells lots of grinders which is good for their >> cash flow! > >Oops! The retailers will be out in force now, saying that we're >"beating them up," or "not being nice" to them. But it's true here in >the States (and apparently in the UK, as well) that many who open >retail shops have only a rudimentary knowledge and skill set >themselves. They learned the grinder "shortcut," so that's all they >can teach. There's a place for a grinder, but it should be a >seldom-used piece of equipment if one's interested in becoming >a "skilled craftsperson" in the usual sense of the words. > >"Cash flow" drives lots of different kinds of businesses, but it >doesn't necessarily drive quality at the same time. > >My humble opinion, of course. Others will beg to differ, I know. > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 19:43:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:40:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw From: "Granny And PawPaw" To: "bungi" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: cutting vs. grinding Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:33:20 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb14.163320.0> Precedence: bulk Like geting into Carnagie Hall....You must practice, and practice and practice. You can do it. Arnold -----Original Message----- From: Darlene Hendler To: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 5:28 PM Subject: cutting vs. grinding >you all raise an interesting dilemma. My problem is that I'd rather not >grind as much as I do, but am not very proficient at cutting. Anybody >have any tips for more accurate cutting? Thanks, > >Darlene >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 20:01:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:43:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: wow! Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:43:28 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb14.164328.0> Precedence: bulk I bet she's great at jigsaw puzzles! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 20:50:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:01:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:56:56 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb14.175656.0> Precedence: bulk Well, I for one think that *how something is made does count... if the end result was all that mattered, then stained glass overlay ought to replace *Real stained glass. But, Brian makes a good point. If you wanna buy a grinder, buy one. If you wanna buy ten grinders, do that too, you'll be making lots of retailers happy. Buy some saws while you're at it. But, don't every apply for a job at my studio... you won't get the job. Just my pompous opinion, of course! Best regards, Dani Greer (who could use a couple of apprentices right now.... = anybody out there who can cut glass and doesn't have a grinder?) www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 14 23:01:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:11:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Glenna's restoration Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:08:36 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb14.18836.0> Precedence: bulk Marvelous work, Glenna. I'm sure your neighbors will be = thrilled to tears not only by your kindness, but by the end result! Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 00:02:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:12:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cros.net!soraya From: "Soraya" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: cutting vs. grinding Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:13:26 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb14.181326.0> Precedence: bulk >Like geting into Carnagie Hall....You must practice, and practice and >practice. You can do it. While you are correct that practice is going to improve your skills at almost anything and is very important....it can also aggrevate problems if you are practicing the wrong techiques....and how are newbies to know the differnace? I think it would be more helpful to newbies on the list if someone would be willing to few glass cutting techinques that have proved useful rather than telling us to just go do it....I'm sure we would if we knew how in the first place. I myself will go down to my work bench, and even if I do not feel like working on a project at the moument, will play with some scrap glass just to see what I can do...but a few hints certainly wouldn't hurt my pride. Soraya ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 01:26:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:45:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: cutting vs. grinding Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:41:18 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb14.124118.0> Precedence: bulk >>> you all raise an interesting dilemma. My problem is that I'd rather not > grind as much as I do, but am not very proficient at cutting. Anybody > have any tips for more accurate cutting? The same way you get to Carnegie Hall. Practice, practice, practice.<< Here is a good way to practice: 1. Get some scrap or low cost glass that is at least six inches or so square, 2. Have your cutting table at a comfortable cutting height with good lighting, 3. Take a magic marker and draw a gently waving line on the glass about 1/16" wide, 4. Score the glass on the very edge of one side of the line using enough pressure to hear the cutter but not so much as to have the cutter screech, try for even pressure throughout the score, 5. Break the score with runners, breakers or by hand, 6. Examine the cut edges to see if they are straight, have only light even marks from the cutter and were cut at the very edge of the marker line, 7. Repeat the above exercise until you have it down to perfection, 8. Stop after 20 minutes and try again in not less than two hours. At any rate that is what I did. After a while it comes easy. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass, have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 04:04:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:53:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Illuminated stepping stones Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:57:40 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb14.185740.0> Precedence: bulk Shirley, Pam...etc.... This is the info they give on the ebay page. > These super strength light transfer polymers are durable.They can > withstand > the extremes of teperatures from desert to northern winters, > resist garden chemicals and can support 300lbs of > direct weight. Can be installed in any existing 12 volt lighting > system in minutes. They are made by "Advanced > Products Development Co." P.O. Box5835 Pasadena,CA. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=65298545 Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 06:47:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 02:22:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: cutting vs. grinding Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 05:22:35 +0000 Message-ID: <199902151015.FAA04065@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > The same way you get to Carnegie Hall. Practice, practice, > practice.<< > > Here is a good way to practice: Bob, your suggestions were much better than mine. By the way, I woke up in the middle of the night thinking my attitude here might not be the best ... or a least misperceived. I'm not sneering at those who use grinders, not at all. I am trying to encourage everyone and anyone to increase their skills, to always become better at glassworking than they now are. My heart's in the right place; I woke up worried because I thought I might have hurt some feelings. If I did, my apologies. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 06:57:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 02:58:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep From: "Brian Shepherd" To: "Dani Greer" , "Everyone" Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:35:15 -0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.103515.0> Precedence: bulk Dani I'm stunned that you can't tell the difference between between stained glass overlay and real stained glass - I sure can! VBG I was of course refering to the method not materials as I think you understand perfectly! You are an excellent craftsperson and your opinion is much respected - I have never thought of you as pompous. Like all highly skilled people you may be (just occasionally) a little impatient with your lessers perhaps. I for one look to people like you to sort me out on method and technique. I was very interested to read what you said about zinc - I has made me rethink my use of it! I am appalled that there is so very little skill in the world. My old business (locksmith) seldom even repairs a lock since I left. When I started I used to make locks from scratch. Sadly that is the way of the world and I must agree it does not make it a better place. Everybody's brains died when the invented the pocket calculator and even the simplest mental arithmatic seems to defeat everyone now! Very sad but the sums do get done. That's the point really. Technology is designed to make the difficult easy - it is therefore fundamental that it destoys skill - but never forget its great and hugely redeeming feature - It also enables. If I lived in the States I would snap up one of those apprentice positions instantly even though I could hardly be considered a beginner and I would be delighted to learn 'properly' HOW EVER LONG IT TOOK! It would be great if everybody could do that. I never had the benefit of any lessons whatsoever and I muddled through and whilst I'm not the greatest glass cutter in the world I do cut in preference to grinding. That is a result of time and a good deal of gritty determination. But if hadn't found a cheat (grinder!) along the way I wouldn't be irritating you right now - I'd be potting or knitting or something! As I understand it they originally cut glass with a hot poker. I would dearly love to learn it how to do that - what a great demonstration for the public! When I eventually get over there to visit you all perhaps you would take a few minutes to teach me? VVBG BtB >Well, I for one think that *how something is made does count... if >the end result was all that mattered, then stained glass overlay >ought to replace *Real stained glass. > >But, Brian makes a good point. If you wanna buy a grinder, buy >one. If you wanna buy ten grinders, do that too, you'll be making >lots of retailers happy. Buy some saws while you're at it. But, >don't every apply for a job at my studio... you won't get the job. >Just my pompous opinion, of course! > >Best regards, > >Dani Greer (who could use a couple of apprentices right now.... = > >anybody out there who can cut glass and doesn't have a grinder?) -----Original Message----- From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Date: 15 February 1999 04:53 Subject: Re: Advice on first tools >Well, I for one think that *how something is made does count... if >the end result was all that mattered, then stained glass overlay >ought to replace *Real stained glass. > >But, Brian makes a good point. If you wanna buy a grinder, buy >one. If you wanna buy ten grinders, do that too, you'll be making >lots of retailers happy. Buy some saws while you're at it. But, >don't every apply for a job at my studio... you won't get the job. >Just my pompous opinion, of course! > >Best regards, > >Dani Greer (who could use a couple of apprentices right now.... = > >anybody out there who can cut glass and doesn't have a grinder?) >www.igga.org/greer/ = > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 07:15:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 03:00:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: gjr@daver.bungi.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: My lead restoration project Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 05:58:06 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb15.10586.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Glenna, You must be sooooo proud of yourself! Looks terrific! I can see now why you just HAD to restore it!!! You couldn't possibly think of using the glass as scraps, as your neighbors had suggested. Let us know how they react to your masterpiece restoration! Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 07:23:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 04:57:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:42:52 +0000 Message-ID: <199902151253.MAA27220@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hi all, A sudent arrived a couple of weeks ago to my class; she had already "done" s.g., she had attended a copper foil course (using grinders) with a colleague located further north from me, based at a respected Crafts College, and whom I have met on a number of occasions. Which was why I was horrified to see said student graunching about on a piece of practice glass as if she was digging for gold. I have now spent a total of 3 hours standing behind her watching her, correcting, goading, guiding and praising. This is an instant where hands on demo is worth a thousand words and EVEN a hundred pictures. You just do not hold a glass cutter as if it was a pencil. "But YOUR way is uncomfortable!", my students protest. Only at first, I reassure them time and time again. You will get used to it and then it becomes second nature..... There is ALWAYS a reason for a "bad" score; holding the glass cutter incorrectly too little pressure too much pressure uneven score line a sharp "kink" in the score line scoring over another score line tackling glass beyond your experience tackling curves not intended for glass you have damaged your cutter wheel In 95 percent these are the reasons why the glass shatter or the score line takes off. Address these problems and you should succeed 95 times out of a 100. Talking about numbers..... I agree 100 percent with Dani! I have already submitted my application form ;-> Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Also sprach unsere Dani Greer (who could use a couple of apprentices right now.... = anybody out there who can cut glass and doesn't have a grinder?) www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 07:30:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 06:01:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: BOBDU@prodigy.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: cutting vs. grinding Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 06:35:15 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb15.113515.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Bob, Very good advice you gave on practicing for the allusive, "Perfect Score"! I would like to add that it is nice to start on clear window glass (can't remember the formal name right now). There are 2 reasons I suggest this. First, it is free if you ask your local hardware store for scraps. I received tons of large sheets, up to 18"x20", as well as smaller pieces. You can feel quite comfortable scoring something which was only going to be trashed anyway. Hence, there is no guilt associated with tossing the practice pieces out. Second, it is the easiest glass to score. This will promote confidence very quickly. So after you have mastered this glass, you can move onto some low- cost glass. You will waste much less low-cost glass after initially practicing on the easiest glass. My students love this and quickly get good at scoring harder glasses. It is just a matter of 1 step at a time. Hope this helps. Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 08:00:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 06:51:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: cutting vs. grinding Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:46:03 -0500 Message-ID: <199902151446.JAA09599@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 2/14/99 11:13 PM Soraya soraya@cros.net >While you are correct that practice is going to improve your skills at >almost anything and is very important....it can also aggrevate problems if >you are practicing the wrong techiques....and how are newbies to know the >differnace? > Soraya, Here's what I've found best when cutting a deep inside curve: score on the correct curve (1). Take off the edges outside of the curve to lessen any tension. Starting from the unused part of the glass, make a smaller curve following the same general line of your good curve but making it only halfway across the width (2). Make another one starting a bit before score 2 ends, same general shape and ending inside the score 1. Depending on how deep is your curve, you can make any number of more scores in a similar fashion. They should look like small hills. Then take each section off carefully and slowly starting of course from curve (2). Hope this helps. It would be so much easier if I could show you. There is a great book called Stained Glass Basics by George Shannon & Pat Torlen, Sterling Publishing, N.Y. that gives diagrams. Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 08:31:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:30:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: cutting vs. grinding Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:29:05 -0500 Message-ID: <199902151529.KAA14605@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 2/15/99 12:22 AM Albert Lewis alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net . My heart's in the right place; I woke >up worried because I thought I might have hurt some feelings. Oh Albert, we *know your heart's in the right place! Never fear. Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 09:31:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:56:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.megsinet.net!pjnelson_glassdogstudio.com From: Paula Nelson To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: cutting vs. grinding Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:28:26 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.32826.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all, I was a member of this list about a year and a half ago, then dropped of due to other committments. I just came back on and after what I discovered last night - I had to send this in..... I'm working on a commission that's due for presentation in April and in the middle of cutting, I discovered that my groziers had walked off. I recently moved and I'd hand-packed and moved all of my glass, equipment etc to keep just this very thing from happening. I've leave to imagination my comments . I was on a roll and miffed that I couldn't find them, so out of frustration I took out the tile cutters that I use for tessere. I decided to try them and while I can't get into small places with them, they were fantastic. They happily nipped off the pointed ends and even did a fair grozing - as long as I watched the torque I applied. These aren't "mosaic cutters" with the disks... these are cutters that you can pick up in any tile department of any big hardware store. They have become a part of my first string tool as of the results. Paula Nelson glassdog@glassdogstudio.com http://www.glassdogstudio.com/TGDS.htm ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 09:54:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:57:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.megsinet.net!pjnelson_glassdogstudio.com From: Paula Nelson To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: cutting vs. grinding Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:51:44 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.35144.0> Precedence: bulk At 09:33 PM 2/14/99 -0500, Granny And PawPaw wrote: >Like geting into Carnagie Hall....You must practice, and practice and >practice. You can do it. I agree completely, and and least with me it's like riding a bicycle - once you get it.... I would ask a question - what style of cutter do you use? I have three, all Toyo's - a barrel - my first, a pistol grip and the little short one that fits into your hand (don't know what it's called - I call it a crutch, heh). I was uncomfortable with the barrel; while I can cut with it - the scores were inconsistant; the pistol grip is great for long lines I've discovered; but for close cutting I can't be without the crutch. It does take some getting used to, but it becomes an extension of your hand if you catch my meaning. I found that the 'classic' hand style didn't work for me and when I saw one of these being used - I decided to try it. I only need to swipe glass against the grinder now - if I even have to do that. Everyone has a different style - and a different point of balance for what 'feels right'. Once you get that down it'd might make an extreme difference. Perhaps... it also depends on what you are using for a pattern. If it's craft paper (manila folderish), it will guide your cutter. Just some thoughts....... Paula Nelson glassdog@glassdogstudio.com http://www.glassdogstudio.com/TGDS.htm ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 10:27:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:15:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!MD6868 From: MD6868@aol.com To: mb.sympatico.ca@mb.sympatico.ca, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: cutting vs. grinding Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:04:01 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb15.1741.0> Precedence: bulk Hi, I almost hate to use this, but the old comedian Henny Youngman has a great old line, which answers your question> A man stops another on the streets of New York, looking for directions. "How, he asks, does one get to Carnagie Hall?" The second man replies,"practice, practice, practice!! (God, I must be getting really old) However trite this may be, 'tis true. I personally have cut up loads of "float glass", as cheap as I can find it, and sometimes, when I am having cutting difficulty (although far less often now) I still do this. For what its worth! Richard Glassics, Inc Valencia, Ca. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 11:04:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:42:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Re: Grinder vs glass cutter Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:39:50 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb15.173950.0> Precedence: bulk >I know I'm new to this but when I took a class we were not told about danger >in glass dust?? When I grow up and get my "dream studio," I'm going to install a humongous ceiling-mounted vent hood over my work table, with a HEPA filter, and do all my grinding *and* soldering under it. So there! Sparks, with fond memories of the high-airflow enclosed fume hoods in my college chemistry labs, but realizing that they'd be impractical in this line of work......... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 11:25:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:15:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: cutting vs. grinding Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:17:34 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.61734.0> References: <<1999Feb15.113515.0>> Precedence: bulk Ok.. Not wanting to go see Elisabeth with *all* my glass having met my grinder....(I told ya I was scared) I have been inspecting each of my breaks to critique each and every score. This is what I have found... My score looks good (to me) right amount of pressure and appears even. When I have a very thin amount of glass to break off...if it doesnt all come off together, I find little mountains on the glasses broken edge (make sense?) but the line is fine on the top and bottom of the glass. The mini mountain is what I would grind off. Cant groze it off without getting into my peice of glass. Another thing I find is with a wavy score, the top side line is fine... but it doesnt break straight up and down on the edge...so that the bottom side of the glass comes out a little further than the top. A small slope. Sheesh this challenges my communications skills. Is this caused by not holding my cutter staight up and down? Hope you guys can visualise what I am referring to. There isnt much to grind off..just enough to make my glass straight up and down. Am I tilting??? I hold my cutter like an ice pick! ;o) This assumes that y'all know how to hold an ice pick to judge how I hold my cutter! Thanks Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 12:07:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:25:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:24:04 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb15.18244.0> Precedence: bulk Also sprach esavad@home.net: >the glass may have been alot softer If it was anything like some of the reproduction glass you can get today, it may have been a lot *harder.* In which case it's all the more amazing that they could work it without a grinder. That Yough stuff can be a real pain in the tutu! But ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, it's gorgeous when it's done............ Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 12:22:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:24:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:24:02 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb15.18242.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/13/99 4:10:56 PM, GreerStudios@compuserve.com wrote: >Sorry, Sparks, it's absolutely not necessary with copperfoil... >we don't grind any more with foil than with lead. In a foiled >window of, say, 350 pieces, I *might grind 10 -20.... maybe. [...] Having tried a few times to put things together without grinding and wasted an incredible amount of time and foil trying to apply the foil evenly and to get it to stick (any amount of oil, no matter how little, is too much in my experience), I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I've found that the time it takes to grind everything (assuming that the pieces are cut reasonably accurately in the first place, in which it just takes a quick zip around) *and* foil it is less than the time it took to foil unground pieces decently. It's also worth it in safety. I've sliced myself good a couple of times trying to foil unground edges. So unless and until I develop a "magic touch" like Dani & co. seem to have, I'm going to stick with what works. A fabulous finished product is what's important! BTW, when you do copperfoil work, what thickness of foil do you use? I mostly use the 1 mil stuff. And are you hand-foiling or using a foiling machine? Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 12:45:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:27:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Work and learning styles, was Re: Grinder vs glass cutter Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:24:10 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb15.182410.0> Precedence: bulk Also sprach Albert: >>You see, that's the thing. Glass teachers these days who have their >>students learn to cut glass with a grinder close at hand are actually >>crippling their students in a way. It's like teaching a child to walk >>by insisting they use a walker like an 80-year-old. They'd never >>learn to walk correctly. Personally, I'd say that nobody learning to >>work with stained glass should be allowed to use a grinder until >>they'd learned to cut confidently and accurately most of the time. >> >>Using a grinder doesn't make you a bad person; you're just not >>allowing yourself to reach the level of technical ability that would >>mark you as a good craftsman. >> >>My opinion, natch. I disagree completely........ First off, I compare my experience in learning glass craft with my experience when I learned to sew, for instance. When I started to learn to sew on the machine (at age 8), I had to do a lot of pinning, basting, extra measuring, etc. so my work would go together smoothly. As I got better at it, the basting was the first to go (except in really tricky spots), then most of the pins, and I learned to "eyeball" the width of an elastic casing or a 2" hem. Now I can sew in a zipper by machine with no pinning at all, "eyeball" alterations, cobble together my own patterns, etc. No one would ever have suggested that I run the sewing machine at top speed right off the bat, or put together my first sewing projects without pinning before running the piece through the machine. And yes, I *can* hand sew (learned that first, along with embroidery, starting around age 5), and usually do my mending that way 'cause I feel too lazy to set up the machine for something small. But ordinarily I don't do that when making something new, and (except for the real die-hard "period garb" makers who even spin, weave and dye their own cloth), no one expects new clothes to be made that way! Second, I think the way any individual person works depends at least in part on what "level" one jumps in at (incidentally, my first machine-sewing projects were Barbie doll clothes, which require 1/4" seams and very precise fitting) *and* on one's level of physical coordination. I've never done stained glass as a hobby or taken any formal lessons; I got "thrown in the deep end" when Christie needed some extra help. I've had to rely on my own mechanical aptitude and learn on the fly what's the most efficient way for *me* to work, and sometimes it's not the way she works. I have a rather shaky hand, so my work style compensates for that; for instance, I have to use a lot more push pins than she does when I'm assembling something - but as a result I don't waste time repositioning pieces I've knocked out of kilter! There have even been a couple of times when she's picked up on a trick or two of mine. There's also the way one's brain is wired conceptually - questions of "Do you put the shirt on the hanger, or the hanger in the shirt?" and "Do you put the thread through the eye of the needle, or slip the eye of the needle over the end of the thread?" In both instances it's the latter for me. I also do a lot of things naturally from right to left even though I'm mostly right-handed in a left-to-right society (incidentally, I'm also mostly left-footed). Realizing that I'm wired "conceptually backwards" and allowing myself to work according to the way I'm wired has been an overwhelmingly empowering thing; by following my own wiring, I'm able to do things I was never able to learn "the regular way" no matter how hard I tried - and do them well. There's also the question of any person's own natural pace and rhythm. I'm a naturally "fast" worker, and my rhythms are way different from those of a naturally "slow" worker. What works for me is simply different from what works for a slow worker - a notable example being that I didn't learn to solder smoothly until I cranked the iron way up and let my natural pace take over instead of trying to do it slowly with a cooler iron, which resulted in a lot of unevenness. I find that for me personally, that "natural pace" has a mental component too; if I try to slow down what I'm doing physically, I often lose track and get confused because the flow is interrupted. (I've always been that way, maybe it's an "ADD thang.") It's also important to draw a distinction between learning glass (or any art or craft) as a hobby (which is where almost everyone starts out) and entering an apprenticeship in a high-end pro shop. The point of doing glass as a hobby is as much to provide relaxation and "a place to escape to" as to produce beautiful things. Nobody's judging your performance, counting up the sheets of glass you destroy, or breathing down your neck to make you "work faster" like they do all day in the "real world." There's a lot of ground, some of it occupied by people who do beautiful work and get paid for it (which, all hairsplitting aside, is the fundamental definition of "professional") between the two extremes; it's not an either/or situation. And if this or that tool enables someone to avoid frustration and do neater work while developing their skills and getting ready for the next level, who are we - any of us, even those who have been at it for 30 years - to criticize? Finally (and I speak from experience as a supervisor too, this having been a really stinkin' hard lesson for me to learn on that side), I think it's just a little teeny bit (OK, more like a lot) on the arrogant and overcontrolling side for anyone in any line of work to insist that everyone - even their own employees - do every itty bitty detail "my way or the highway." Getting the work done well and in a timely manner - and *safely* as well - is what's important. The upshot of it is, everyone doesn't - indeed *can't* - work the same way. We've all got to do what's most efficient for us. And I think the "crutch" argument is *way* over-used. One person's crutch is another person's valuable tool. Everyone doesn't stay in "training wheels" mode forever; I dare say most of us are more than eager to get away from the training wheels! And BTW, Albert: in 40-something years I've never known a healthy, able-bodied baby who used a walker and never learned to walk without it - or one who learned to stand without pulling him- or herself up on the furniture or mom's or dad's leg or the drapes or the dog or whatever else was handy. Eventually all babies are off and running unless some abusive ghoul kicked their feet out from under them once too many. And whether we're learning to walk or to do glass, as we grow and develop, we all arrive at our own conclusions about what's necessary and what's not............. We now return you to your regularly scheduled program already in progress. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 12:47:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:28:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: UPS - or should that have been OOPS! Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:24:07 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb15.18247.0> Precedence: bulk Also sprach Albert: >The best one I ever saw was a large carton with forklift entry holes >inserted midway in the box, penetration most of the way through, too. >It didn't go out that way, but it certainly came back in modified >form. Hmmmmmmm......... sounds like the work of some frustrated "performance artist" to me....... For anyone who missed it, once again I'll quote the guy at my local "Mail Boxes Etc." who said, "everything you ship goes down at least a mile of conveyor belt and gets flipped every which way before it gets where it's going." Let the packer beware. Sparks (former Paranoid Professionsl Post-Office Proofer) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 13:07:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:53:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Brian Shepherd Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:38:08 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.18388.0> References: <<1999Feb14.10459.0@?>> Precedence: bulk Brian, This may be a bit late do to an accident. The emphasis here is *first tools* as a first tool, the grinder can make the time when accurate cutting is achieved much longer to achieve. The objective is to get good skill levels which will stay with them through their career. I have access to two (yes, two grinders), but I try to use them very little. You, it seems to me, progressed in the way I would wish people did. Building up your skills until you needed the grinder as a convenient aid rather than a necessity. Just so you will know, I admit to grinding glass to fit leaded panels, when my cutting has not been up to standard. So I'm not trying to be superior, just trying to get the individual who asked the question about first tools, to delay purchase of a grinder (and you will remember a band saw) as first tools. Steve In message <1999Feb14.10459.0@?>, Brian Shepherd writes >Hello > >Ok if we aren't going to slam peoples work or pricing then let's slam their >techniques! BG > >I don't think anybody would deny that there people in this world who are >better at cutting glass that others - they must be they tell us so! Ok then >that gives us all something to aspire to. > >I admire all skilled people. No skills are easily won and they are priceless >to those who have them and a wonder to observe. We all venerate >craftsmanship! > >We should all remember that a grinder is an enabling tool. It allows people >to make things in stained glass without having to acquire the cutting skills >first. I don't think there is anything wrong with that in this urgent age. > >I began by grozing from the start. My cutting was appalling. Then I got a >grinder so I groze then ground to shape. As my skills improved I gave up >nearly!) grozing and ground only. Now I ALWAYS grind lightly (at least!) >just so that I can handle and foil the piece with confidence. > >I will not be admonished for using a work pattern that suits me! > >So all you non grinders can go around patting your selves and your friends >on the back and feeling holier than everybody else if it makes you happy - >you deserve it. > >All you grinders need feel no remorse. You are good guys as well! Your >skills will come if you work at them but you have no reason to feel humbled >in the presence of all this greatness! > >Anyway - it's results that matter - who cares how you make it - if it's >beautiful it's beautiful! > >:o) > > >BtB > >PS I don't think the LCT factory would have used a grinder - ever! I think >they would have used one of these high pressure water cutter thingies if >they had been available! > >PPS On second thoughts maybe LCT would have used a completely automated >assembly plant - if they had been available. The only thing he might have >resisted would have been automatic colour selection (for a while at least!) > > > > > > > > > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 13:11:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:54:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: Albert Lewis Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: cutting vs. grinding Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:58:11 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.25811.0> References: <<199902151015.FAA04065@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk Don't worry, Albert, I am a die-hard grinder abusers. I will agree to disagree anytime with you. No hurt feelings here. Shirley B Albert Lewis wrote: > > > The same way you get to Carnegie Hall. Practice, practice, > > practice.<< > > > > Here is a good way to practice: > > Bob, your suggestions were much better than mine. By the way, I woke > up in the middle of the night thinking my attitude here might not be > the best ... or a least misperceived. I'm not sneering at those who > use grinders, not at all. I am trying to encourage everyone and > anyone to increase their skills, to always become better at > glassworking than they now are. My heart's in the right place; I woke > up worried because I thought I might have hurt some feelings. If I > did, my apologies. > > Albert > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- x>"3 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 13:32:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:44:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Re: Grinder vs glass cutter Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:49:36 +0000 Message-ID: <199902151942.OAA08870@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > When I grow up and get my "dream studio," I'm going to install a humongous > ceiling-mounted vent hood over my work table, with a HEPA filter, and do all > my grinding *and* soldering under it. So there! > > Sparks, with fond memories of the high-airflow enclosed fume hoods > in my college chemistry labs, but realizing that they'd be > impractical in this line of work......... Yes, they are expensive. But given the tendency of employees to sue employers and OSHA to shut down studios that are not practicing healthy work habits, the cost would be quickly offset if even one employee (or yourself) were kept healthier. In the studio my wife runs, all unzipping and other "dirty" jobs that loft lead dust or other particles into the air, such work is done in a clean room that's part of the studio. Its doors can be shut, overhead vacuum conduits can be moved to right above the work. Even so, the craftspeople wear respirators. Of course, they're wearing the studio-issued coveralls anyway. They do that every day. Change from their civvies into the coveralls at the beginning of the day; change back at the end of the day. The studio covers the cost of the coveralls and has them washed by a commercial service specializing in hazardous wastes. Every day, a clean, new pair of coveralls. Good washing habits before going to lunch (on the other floor). Etc. Blood tests on a regular basis. Of course, they do a ton of restoration work, so unzipping old windows is a big part of the job. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 13:46:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:45:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: cutting vs. grinding Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:48:04 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.9484.0> Precedence: bulk Serious Question? Even on a good score and break, the top or bottom edge may have a sharp sliver edge. Why groze when you can grind lightly? Linda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 13:53:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:47:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Bob E Duchesneau Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:41:44 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.94144.0> References: <<1999Feb13.9516.0>> Precedence: bulk Bob E Duchesneau wrote: > > >>for example right now i'd be using my holographic imaging system, to see > if an idea would work or not. it's such a common tool, not really > needed, but very useful. too bad it has'nt been invented yet, huh... > 20-40 years from now people will be having a small argument about the > holographic units. and why the Lewis or Savad Studios did'nt use them. > > ---Mike Savad<< > > I've got the answer, "Savad at least had electricity in his studio and might > have gotten ahold of one of the early models. How else could he have done > sky city!" Bob > > Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 > Think glass, have class. > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass shhh... not so loud... i don't want everyone to know i have one... :) ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 14:06:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:48:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:40:05 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.9405.0> References: <<1999Feb14.0744.0>> Precedence: bulk Steve Richard wrote: > > In message <1999Feb13.112443.0@?>, M. Savad writes > >Albert Lewis wrote: > >> > >> > Grinding may be optional if you're doing lead work, but it's absolutely > >> > necessary with copper foil, otherwise you'll slice your foil to > >> shreds! > >> > >> Hmm. I wonder what those 250 women working for L.C. Tiffany building > >> lamps did about that? No grinders back then. Heck, they hardly had > >> any electrical lighting to speak of! T'was very much the New Thing. > >> > >> Albert > >> ---- > > > >but... would they have used a grinder if they had it back then? that's > >the question. i say yes they would have, if it were invented and usable. > >the lighting was dim, but that's all they may have had back then. > > > >for example right now i'd be using my holographic imaging system, to see > >if an idea would work or not. it's such a common tool, not really > >needed, but very useful. too bad it has'nt been invented yet, huh... > >20-40 years from now people will be having a small argument about the > >holographic units. and why the Lewis or Savad Studios did'nt use them. > > > >---Mike Savad > > > Mike, > > Just because a machine is available doesn't make it better than another > older technique, machine, etc. One of the questions to be asked is > whether the grinder is better or even quicker than the older method. > You will have seen Albert's description of preparing glass for foiling - > score, break, wipe the edges, foil. This has to be quicker than score, > break, grind, wash, dry, then foil. It is better because the score and > broken edge is much smoother than the ground edge, so it takes the foil > adhesive better and makes a more secure bond. > > So, I'd answer that the Tiffany workers (concerned as they must have > been with piece rates for speed) would not choose to use the grinder > extensively. > > It could be interesting for people to put their grinders away for the > next project and see how well they really can do without spending time > at the grinder. > > Steve > -- > Steve Richard > Verrier Art Glass Ltd > s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass allright here's another example: air conditioners. in the summer time we all consider them a neccesity. but for thousands of years people did'nt have them. they did'nt seem to have a need for them. they had there own version a giant ice cube. i'm sure they would have rather wanted tosay's AC. air conditioning, you really don't need it, but it's one of those things you really can't do with out. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 14:07:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:53:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:MD6868@aol.com" , Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: cutting vs. grinding Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:50:57 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.95057.0> Precedence: bulk Amen, Richard.... but, who wants to practice in this day and age... instant gratification rules. ;-( Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 14:09:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:56:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY From: JJKIRBY@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:54:40 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb15.195440.0> Precedence: bulk << << The BIG problem all begins because the beginner is allowed by this flawed technique of OVER GRINDING to produce a product that is deceptively good. Once having made a nice looking product, the thought of the next not being as good or better is unbearable. Sure they'd like to try cutting the glass better but the fear that it will come out too small and the solder lines will be fat or uneven is overwhelming. Almost from the first project they're hooked! I tell my students that there is no shame in making an imperfect piece. "Send it off to your relatives in California. >> This is fascinating: Gary says using a grinder can make your work too perfect, Albert says using a grinder results in less craftsmanship. To paraphrase Gertrude Stein: a grinder is a grinder is a grinder Tools (imho) tend to be independent from the person who uses them. The results tend to be a third independent quantity. As a neo-caveman artist, I can just spit on the wall, or I can create graceful horses and bison. Correspondingly with the latest airbrush and acrylics, I can just spray or create art. The art matters, the craft matters - the tools say nothing about the person who uses them - except in cases of reproduction or restoration. >> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 14:23:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:27:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:09:53 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.10953.0> References: <<199902151253.MAA27220@saturn.nildram.co.uk>> Precedence: bulk Toby wrote: > > Hi all, > A sudent arrived a couple of weeks ago to my class; she had already > "done" s.g., she had attended a copper foil course (using grinders) > with a colleague located further north from me, based at a respected > Crafts College, and whom I have met on a number of occasions. > Which was why I was horrified to see said student graunching about on > a piece of practice glass as if she was digging for gold. > I have now spent a total of 3 hours standing behind her watching her, > correcting, goading, guiding and praising. This is an instant where > hands on demo is worth a thousand words and EVEN a hundred pictures. > You just do not hold a glass cutter as if it was a pencil. > "But YOUR way is uncomfortable!", my students protest. > Only at first, I reassure them time and time again. You will get > used to it and then it becomes second nature..... > > There is ALWAYS a reason for a "bad" score; > holding the glass cutter incorrectly > too little pressure > too much pressure > uneven score line > a sharp "kink" in the score line > scoring over another score line > tackling glass beyond your experience > tackling curves not intended for glass > you have damaged your cutter wheel > > In 95 percent these are the reasons why the glass shatter or the > score line takes off. Address these problems and you should succeed > 95 times out of a 100. Talking about numbers..... I agree 100 percent > with Dani! > I have already submitted my application form ;-> > Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK > > Also sprach unsere > Dani Greer (who could use a couple of apprentices right now.... = > > anybody out there who can cut glass and doesn't have a grinder?) > www.igga.org/greer/ = > > ---- holding a cutter that way can be uncomfortable. i hold mine like a utility knife. if i were a teacher i would show the different kinds of cutters and the different ways to hold them. each person will find it best to hold it their way. my wrists are fairly strong. so my way works out well. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 14:25:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:08:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw From: "Granny And PawPaw" To: "bungi" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Re: Grinder vs glass cutter Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:00:21 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.10021.0> Precedence: bulk My Bride, who I married because she is mechanically inclined, [and other reasons not to be discussed] set up huge range hoods over my soldering, torch, and kiln areas. Ain't perfect; but it sure does help....NO I DO NOT RENT HER OUT.... Arnold -----Original Message----- From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 2:17 PM Subject: Re: Re: Grinder vs glass cutter > >>I know I'm new to this but when I took a class we were not told about danger >>in glass dust?? > >When I grow up and get my "dream studio," I'm going to install a humongous >ceiling-mounted vent hood over my work table, with a HEPA filter, and do all >my grinding *and* soldering under it. So there! > > >Sparks, with fond memories of the high-airflow enclosed fume hoods > in my college chemistry labs, but realizing that they'd be > impractical in this line of work......... >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 14:28:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:08:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: tiime/cost of finished product Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:04:00 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.1040.0> References: <<1999Feb14.10177.0>> Precedence: bulk Howard wrote: > > I have over the years (see archives) ALWAYS advocated keeping time of how > long a "project" takes. A simple analog clock and a on/off switch works > fine. > I know how many square feet I used to make a shade, solder, foil, filigree > and or hardware, jewels and so on. > Some of my shades may only use 2 or a fraction more sq. feet of glass and > sell for ONLY $2,200 (without base)....That is only a $1,000 or so per > square foot....A VERY POOR example of a like shade from elsewhere may sell > for $199.00, and should that influence my pricing.......I think > NOT!!!!!!!!!!!! > No easy answer to pricing, some work only to stay busy, others to replace > material, some for FAMILY (UGH!), some guess at a price, some for the > privilege to be exploited, and a few who do it as a profession. I do other > things for free but NOT GLASS! ( with the exception of occasional and > selected "net advice). I volunteer at 2 marine facilities (handle and feed > and work with 6 or 7 octopuses) , assist friends with FREE investing advice, > both "net" and broker type. > The old saw "if you have to ask how much it costs. you cannot afford > it".....hopefully reflects my clients. > later, H > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass but the thing we have to remember is that we re paying for your skill level. with a high skill level, the pieces should naturally be hihger. she has prices on her work comarable to yours, but here skill level is too low for that price range. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 14:40:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:09:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:49:40 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.94940.0> References: <<1999Feb14.10459.0>> Precedence: bulk Brian Shepherd wrote: > > Hello > > Ok if we aren't going to slam peoples work or pricing then let's slam their > techniques! BG > > I don't think anybody would deny that there people in this world who are > better at cutting glass that others - they must be they tell us so! Ok then > that gives us all something to aspire to. > > I admire all skilled people. No skills are easily won and they are priceless > to those who have them and a wonder to observe. We all venerate > craftsmanship! > > We should all remember that a grinder is an enabling tool. It allows people > to make things in stained glass without having to acquire the cutting skills > first. I don't think there is anything wrong with that in this urgent age. > > I began by grozing from the start. My cutting was appalling. Then I got a > grinder so I groze then ground to shape. As my skills improved I gave up > nearly!) grozing and ground only. Now I ALWAYS grind lightly (at least!) > just so that I can handle and foil the piece with confidence. > > I will not be admonished for using a work pattern that suits me! > > So all you non grinders can go around patting your selves and your friends > on the back and feeling holier than everybody else if it makes you happy - > you deserve it. > > All you grinders need feel no remorse. You are good guys as well! Your > skills will come if you work at them but you have no reason to feel humbled > in the presence of all this greatness! > > Anyway - it's results that matter - who cares how you make it - if it's > beautiful it's beautiful! > > :o) > > BtB > > PS I don't think the LCT factory would have used a grinder - ever! I think > they would have used one of these high pressure water cutter thingies if > they had been available! > > PPS On second thoughts maybe LCT would have used a completely automated > assembly plant - if they had been available. The only thing he might have > resisted would have been automatic colour selection (for a while at least!) > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass basically the way i see it is like this: say an old guy has been building furniture by hand for 85 years. he's realy old. he only sands and cuts things by hand. he never has used anything electric to make his stuff. all of his things are nice, but they really arenn't vey smooth, or accurate. he thinks he's doing it the reight and best way. and he does'nt see any point in those new fangled gadgets. but those gadgets could improve his work quite a bit. ...hmmm seemed to have lost track of the story, but i can we can see the gist. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 14:40:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:14:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Cutting vs. grinding Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:07:27 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.4727.0> Precedence: bulk TS writes: >>Another thing I find is with a wavy score, the top side line is fine... but it doesnt break straight up and down on the edge...so that the bottom side of the glass comes out a little further than the top. A small slope. Sheesh this challenges my communications skills. Is this caused by not holding my cutter staight up and down? Hope you guys can visualise what I am referring to. There isnt much to grind off..just enough to make my glass straight up and down. Am I tilting???<< My guess is that you are tilting your cutter from side to side. You do not need to hold the cutter straight up and down but tilting the cutter wheel to the glass causes flairing and bad breaks. I use a Toyo Supercutter which has a pistol grip and find that it gives me excellent control. Sometimes use the index finger on my other hand to help guide the wheel. If that is cheating then I admit to it. Someone wrote of a Toyo "crutch" cutter. The proper name is "Thomas Grip" and some may find it to offer excellent control of the cutting wheel. I find the Toyo Supercutter to be more comfortable for long cutting sessions. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass, have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 14:51:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:19:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: pjnelson@glassdogstudio.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: cutting vs. grinding Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:16:34 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb15.201634.0> Precedence: bulk Paula, I am very curious about your tiny cutter. Is there some way you could find out the name and/or manufacturer of it? Is it really old? Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 15:03:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:24:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY From: JJKIRBY@aol.com To: soraya@cros.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: cutting vs. grinding Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:21:11 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb15.202111.0> Precedence: bulk << I think it would be more helpful to newbies on the list if someone would be willing to few glass cutting techinques that have proved useful rather than telling us to just go do it >> : << > you all raise an interesting dilemma. My problem is that I'd rather not > grind as much as I do, but am not very proficient at cutting. Anybody > have any tips for more accurate cutting? >> Being part of this group, caused me to change my entire style of cutting. I used to trace the pattern, cut it out, glue the pieces etc. I currently trace the glass pieces using a light box - sometimes even cutting directly from the light box. Then I try to cut right on the trace line or even on the inside edge. For me, this has resulted in much more accurate cutting and significantly reduce "grind time". Another good tip is to watch other people cut glass. I watched my sister once (who I taught to cut glass). I noticed she pushed the cutter instead of pulling it. I immediately started doing this and found I had much more control. I still need to get down to San Diego to see Bob D. cut 1/4 inch strips from full sheets. I've improved, but I'm a long way from doing that... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 15:08:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:59:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Soraya Subject: Re: cutting vs. grinding Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:12:15 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.191215.0> References: <<1999Feb14.181326.0@?>> Precedence: bulk Soraya, Tennis coaching came up with a simple idea based on learning research. Coaches issued players with lots and lots of balls and had them practice one objective. With repetition, the brain learned how best to achieve the objective, without much coaching. You can do this too! Steve In message <1999Feb14.181326.0@?>, Soraya writes >>Like geting into Carnagie Hall....You must practice, and practice and >>practice. You can do it. > >While you are correct that practice is going to improve your skills at >almost anything and is very important....it can also aggrevate problems if >you are practicing the wrong techiques....and how are newbies to know the >differnace? > >I think it would be more helpful to newbies on the list if someone would be >willing to few glass cutting techinques that have proved useful rather than >telling us to just go do it....I'm sure we would if we knew how in the first >place. I myself will go down to my work bench, and even if I do not feel >like working on a project at the moument, will play with some scrap glass >just to see what I can do...but a few hints certainly wouldn't hurt my >pride. > >Soraya > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 15:14:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:04:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Artistry, was Re: cutting vs. grinding Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:04:50 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb15.20450.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/15/99 9:48:05 AM, alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net wrote: >I woke >up in the middle of the night thinking my attitude here might not be >the best ... or a least misperceived. I'm not sneering at those who >use grinders, not at all. I am trying to encourage everyone and >anyone to increase their skills, to always become better at >glassworking than they now are. My heart's in the right place; I woke >up worried because I thought I might have hurt some feelings. If I >did, my apologies. Hey, da'ss okay. I don't think you hacked anyone off. I'm sure the tirade I sent off a little while ago sounded "pissier" than it was intended, too. I thought of something else in the mean time: More to the point of true artistry than the "orthodoxy" of the methods of construction is the creative vision that goes into a project. If your art has something to say by virtue of its concept, and if you're able (by whatever means) to translate that concept into concrete (or silicate ) reality, and the communication of the concept is not hindered by outwardly visible evidence of poor construction (as distinguished from *intentional* roughness), that's what ultimately makes art. Plenty of creative artists (for whatever reason) employ artisans to do the physical construction. An architect isn't considered "not an architect" because he or she doesn't lay the bricks, drive the nails, pour the concrete, etc., and the house that results is no less worthy a house if the carpenters use circular saws and nail guns rather than good old hand saws and hammers (and in addition, the carpenters don't end up with carpal-tunnel syndrome the way a friend of mine did). The same goes for glass artists too. I read recently that the much-mentioned (and occasionally maligned) Chihuly doesn't do his own glassblowing because with one eye he has no depth perception, so it wouldn't be safe for him or the other folks he works with. So he designs and supervises. And what about his expressed intent to push his float series beyond the size limit of a blown glass piece (something like 40", I seem to recall) by experimenting with plastics? Does his change of materials suddenly, automatically make his concept less worthy? If we throw out the popular equation "plastic = tacky," I'd have to say the answer is no - let's see what he comes up with and judge it based on the results! By the same token, when we look at a painting, for instance, most of us don't automatically call up the artist to find out if he/she actually mixed the paint from scratch. If the painting "speaks to us" and looks as if "the artist knew which end of the brush to hold," we appreciate it. We might even buy it if we can afford it and have a place to hang it. The least we can do is to give the same consideration to each other as well. Historic and other "orthodox" methods have their place, but unless you're restoring or reproducing a cathedral window or some other such historic masterpiece, the exact method of construction, what tools were used, etc. is at most 10% of the equation, IMO. The other 90% is creativity, choice of materials (making windows for a great big "manor house"? lead and handblown it is!), communication of the concept, whether it looks like you intended it to, and practical concerns like appropriateness of the finished product to its intended location and whether it's constructed well enough to last and doesn't look like whoever made it barely knew which end of the cutter was up. Having said my 2 brass farthings' worth, I will now upshut, for the next 5 minutes anyway Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 15:28:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:35:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:33:18 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.113318.0> Precedence: bulk -------------Forwarded Message----------------- From: Dani Greer, = To: INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com, INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com = Date: 2/15/99 2:20 PM RE: Re: Advice on first tools Message text written by INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com >So unless and until I develop a "magic touch" like Dani & co.< Magic ain't got nothin' to do with it.... just practice. It takes a lot less time to skip the grinding stage especially on large many-piece windows... aLOT less time. Unfortunately, it's a fact of life that if you plan to make stained glass your career, you have to make money at it.... and saving time makes money. The point is, I don't care if you grind or not. Grind to your hearts' content. The information I pass on is simply one professional's perspective.... if you wanna be like us, here's how we do it. It you don't, ignore what I have to say. You're = getting the same info I give to a college class. We assume they're taking a college class because they want to be = professionals.... so, they're trained to be just that, and one of the things you have to learn is speed - and cutting glass fast and well is an essential to being a professional. Cutting glass = fast and well usually precludes a lot of grinding. Just a fact of glass life. = Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 15:31:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:08:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Work and learning styles, was Re: Grinder vs glass cutter Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:13:30 +0000 Message-ID: <199902152106.QAA11633@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > little teeny bit (OK, more like a lot) on the arrogant and overcontrolling > side for anyone in any line of work to insist that everyone - even their own > employees - do every itty bitty detail "my way or the highway." Getting the > work done well and in a timely manner - and *safely* as well - is what's > important. I'll admit that my comment had to do with studio craftspeople, that is, employees of firms in business to make money. I'm not sure it's arrogant on the part of a professional studio owner to expect his/her employees to be both productive and efficient. Safe? Sure. Efficient? You bet! And if professional craftspeople used a grinder on every piece they cut, believe me, the "highway" is what it'd be. Of course, some hobbyists wish to attain professional skill levels ... my comments were pointed at them too and (I've already apologized for this) my comments might have seemed harsh and unforgiving on the grinder question and I didn't mean them to be. They were meant to be encouraging. Oh, I suspected the walker wasn't a good analogy. I was picturing the thingamabob that oldsters who just can't walk without them use, pitching it ahead of them one step, then taking a step, then pitching it ahead of them again, and so on. After I sent the comment off, I visualized the *other kind of walker, the one that *encourages walking. Oh, well, the hazards of an imperfect language, not to mention my own imperfect skill set in using it. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 15:39:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:17:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netaxs.com!maruca From: maruca@netaxs.com To: Witchdoc3@aol.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: UPS - or should that have been OOPS! Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:15:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1999Feb15.111525.0> References: <<1999Feb15.18247.0>> Precedence: bulk On Mon, 15 Feb 1999 Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote: > > Also sprach Albert: > > >The best one I ever saw was a large carton with forklift entry holes > >inserted midway in the box, penetration most of the way through, too. > >It didn't go out that way, but it certainly came back in modified > >form. > > Hmmmmmmm......... sounds like the work of some frustrated "performance artist" > to me....... > > For anyone who missed it, once again I'll quote the guy at my local "Mail > Boxes Etc." who said, "everything you ship goes down at least a mile of > conveyor belt and gets flipped every which way before it gets where it's > going." > That flipped is not to be confused with the tumbling that happens when you parcel is flipped down a two story high chute to the container heading (hopefully) its way. The flipping, by the way, is done by gadgets that resemble their smaller cousins in pinball machines! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 15:48:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:44:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!vlg From: "Vincent LaGreca" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Work and learning styles, was Re: Grinder vs glass cutter Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:43:00 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.11430.0> Precedence: bulk Sparks: Well said! Ciao Vic -----Original Message----- From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 4:07 PM Subject: Work and learning styles, was Re: Grinder vs glass cutter > >Also sprach Albert: > >>>You see, that's the thing. Glass teachers these days who have their >>>students learn to cut glass with a grinder close at hand are actually >>>crippling their students in a way. It's like teaching a child to walk >>>by insisting they use a walker like an 80-year-old. They'd never >>>learn to walk correctly. Personally, I'd say that nobody learning to >>>work with stained glass should be allowed to use a grinder until >>>they'd learned to cut confidently and accurately most of the time. >>> >>>Using a grinder doesn't make you a bad person; you're just not >>>allowing yourself to reach the level of technical ability that would >>>mark you as a good craftsman. >>> >>>My opinion, natch. > >I disagree completely........ > >First off, I compare my experience in learning glass craft with my experience >when I learned to sew, for instance. When I started to learn to sew on the >machine (at age 8), I had to do a lot of pinning, basting, extra measuring, >etc. so my work would go together smoothly. As I got better at it, the basting >was the first to go (except in really tricky spots), then most of the pins, >and I learned to "eyeball" the width of an elastic casing or a 2" hem. Now I >can sew in a zipper by machine with no pinning at all, "eyeball" alterations, >cobble together my own patterns, etc. > >No one would ever have suggested that I run the sewing machine at top speed >right off the bat, or put together my first sewing projects without pinning >before running the piece through the machine. And yes, I *can* hand sew >(learned that first, along with embroidery, starting around age 5), and >usually do my mending that way 'cause I feel too lazy to set up the machine >for something small. But ordinarily I don't do that when making something new, >and (except for the real die-hard "period garb" makers who even spin, weave >and dye their own cloth), no one expects new clothes to be made that way! > >Second, I think the way any individual person works depends at least in part >on what "level" one jumps in at (incidentally, my first machine-sewing >projects were Barbie doll clothes, which require 1/4" seams and very precise >fitting) *and* on one's level of physical coordination. I've never done >stained glass as a hobby or taken any formal lessons; I got "thrown in the >deep end" when Christie needed some extra help. I've had to rely on my own >mechanical aptitude and learn on the fly what's the most efficient way for >*me* to work, and sometimes it's not the way she works. I have a rather shaky >hand, so my work style compensates for that; for instance, I have to use a lot >more push pins than she does when I'm assembling something - but as a result I >don't waste time repositioning pieces I've knocked out of kilter! There have >even been a couple of times when she's picked up on a trick or two of mine. > >There's also the way one's brain is wired conceptually - questions of "Do you >put the shirt on the hanger, or the hanger in the shirt?" and "Do you put the >thread through the eye of the needle, or slip the eye of the needle over the >end of the thread?" In both instances it's the latter for me. I also do a lot >of things naturally from right to left even though I'm mostly right-handed in >a left-to-right society (incidentally, I'm also mostly left-footed). Realizing >that I'm wired "conceptually backwards" and allowing myself to work according >to the way I'm wired has been an overwhelmingly empowering thing; by following >my own wiring, I'm able to do things I was never able to learn "the regular >way" no matter how hard I tried - and do them well. > >There's also the question of any person's own natural pace and rhythm. I'm a >naturally "fast" worker, and my rhythms are way different from those of a >naturally "slow" worker. What works for me is simply different from what works >for a slow worker - a notable example being that I didn't learn to solder >smoothly until I cranked the iron way up and let my natural pace take over >instead of trying to do it slowly with a cooler iron, which resulted in a lot >of unevenness. > >I find that for me personally, that "natural pace" has a mental component too; >if I try to slow down what I'm doing physically, I often lose track and get >confused because the flow is interrupted. (I've always been that way, maybe >it's an "ADD thang.") > >It's also important to draw a distinction between learning glass (or any art >or craft) as a hobby (which is where almost everyone starts out) and entering >an apprenticeship in a high-end pro shop. The point of doing glass as a hobby >is as much to provide relaxation and "a place to escape to" as to produce >beautiful things. Nobody's judging your performance, counting up the sheets of >glass you destroy, or breathing down your neck to make you "work faster" like >they do all day in the "real world." There's a lot of ground, some of it >occupied by people who do beautiful work and get paid for it (which, all >hairsplitting aside, is the fundamental definition of "professional") between >the two extremes; it's not an either/or situation. And if this or that tool >enables someone to avoid frustration and do neater work while developing their >skills and getting ready for the next level, who are we - any of us, even >those who have been at it for 30 years - to criticize? > >Finally (and I speak from experience as a supervisor too, this having been a >really stinkin' hard lesson for me to learn on that side), I think it's just a >little teeny bit (OK, more like a lot) on the arrogant and overcontrolling >side for anyone in any line of work to insist that everyone - even their own >employees - do every itty bitty detail "my way or the highway." Getting the >work done well and in a timely manner - and *safely* as well - is what's >important. > >The upshot of it is, everyone doesn't - indeed *can't* - work the same way. >We've all got to do what's most efficient for us. And I think the "crutch" >argument is *way* over-used. One person's crutch is another person's valuable >tool. Everyone doesn't stay in "training wheels" mode forever; I dare say most >of us are more than eager to get away from the training wheels! > >And BTW, Albert: in 40-something years I've never known a healthy, able-bodied >baby who used a walker and never learned to walk without it - or one who >learned to stand without pulling him- or herself up on the furniture or mom's >or dad's leg or the drapes or the dog or whatever else was handy. Eventually >all babies are off and running unless some abusive ghoul kicked their feet out >from under them once too many. And whether we're learning to walk or to do >glass, as we grow and develop, we all arrive at our own conclusions about >what's necessary and what's not............. > >We now return you to your regularly scheduled program already in progress. > > >Sparks >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 15:53:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:04:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: She's Back Again Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:53:06 +0000 Message-ID: <199902152204.WAA21745@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hhhhhmmmm.... So THAT was what the UK Customs & Excise people confiscated and Returned to Sender, since they found the "obnoxious substance" highly suspect....... I hope your neighbours will demand retribution for the stench!!! I just don't know what the world is coming to; NO BIOS!!!!!, bedraggled gnomen and badly maintained tu-tu!!!!.....? Not only that, but then Patrick fails to know the difference between a true-blooded English EliZabeth in Bournemouth, a fair town located on the South Coast of the British Islses, from a Viking EliSabeth (....and what about Toby, huh?!) in a tiny village, located much more inland and up north. This is NOT that such a large country where one loses track of distances and locations! Toby is not impressed!!! There are about 700 - 800 Bunginians world-wide and only about 170-odd Bios. SHAME on you Patrick!!! You do not deserve to be called Irish!! I will have TWO Philly Cheesesteaks and a THIRD one in a doggie-bag for approval back here!! May I also draw everybody's attention to the fact that on the 19th February BUNGI will celebrate its FOURTH Birthday!!!!!! I had a little dip into the archives tonight and came across Glenna's FIRST e-mail, welcoming everybody onboard. It was rather sweet. The conversation in them ole' days was very tentative, very.....hmmmm... shall we say...... "tame".... (ouch 'n duck!) We are much "ruder" to each other these days, but much more affectionate too! The reason WHY I dipped into the archives was that I was itching to have a look at Glenna's restoration work..... she and I have had a few "off-group" exchanges about it, except that I was not fast enough in my replies (Old bones Glenna... and recovering from illness as well....).r Glenna, you have nothing to be ashamed of and I think you have done splendidly. I perticularly appreciated the fact that you photographed "The Before". Well Done!! Even more so, since you allowed us a close-up view of your construction, so I was able to examine your soldering work at quite a close quarter. That was very daring and courageous of you. It looks very good! I hope your neighbourrs will really appreciate the thought, time, imagination, efforts and the efoorts for perfection you have poured into this project. It looks great! Another wonderful piece of news is also about to happen; I'm sure my"Barefoot Companion" will not mind me mentioning this. It again emphasizes the bonds we all find with one another on so many different levels...... Daniel German in Canada (our Mexican stained glass artist and Photographer Extraordinaire) is coming to Europe next week. He is also visiting friends and family in London and has asked me if we could meet up.This has arisen in his course of study and research. I am absolutely delighted and will certainly make sure he spends at LEAST a day here (with me and Toby and a camera!!!). Isn't BUNGI wonderful!!! Thank you Glenna and Dave AND HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO US!!! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK ('n shame on you Patrick!!!!) That horrible excuse for an Irishman wrote: I thought the drugged anchovies would have worked by now. Damn, have to rethink my position ( and dosage to send to Bournesmith). Welcome back my dear, I didn't think any bug would be brave enough to even attempt an infection on such a gracious (note the compliment) poultry queen of the barnyard. (8-) Maybe her appetite for Philly Cheesesteaks will wane and I can save some money. LOL Get healthy my nemesis, we need your input. Love to Toby (don't feed him the anchovies I sent you). ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 16:36:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:35:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: cutting vs. grinding Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:31:17 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.123117.0> Precedence: bulk Why groze when you can grind lightly? Because the grozing/ breaking pliers are already in your hand. Why put them down, go to the grinder, turn it on, grind, turn it off?.... well, you get my point. Say, that whole procedure took 30 seconds extra... multiply that times 650 pieces of glass in your window... that's 325 minutes or 5.42 hours... so at $50 - $100 an hour (or = however much you charge) you'll need to charge $271 - $542 extra to cover the cost of your grinding. Oh, and then you'll also need to add the cost of electricity for the grinder. And that's just one job... of course, you don't have to be concerned about it if you don't make a living from stained glass. But, if it's the *only place your money comes from... well, it becomes an issue. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 16:58:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:44:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!barbaraelmore From: barbara elmore To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Glass Holder Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:40:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1999Feb15.6409.0> Precedence: bulk Look at Lowes, Home Depot, etc., for "tool box liner". It looks exactly like the shelf liner at WallyWorld, but is much cheaper! _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 17:00:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:46:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: UPS - or should that have been OOPS! Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:42:02 -0500 Message-ID: <199902152242.RAA08782@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 2/15/99 1:24 PM Witchdoc3@aol.com Witchdoc3@aol.com >Sparks (former Paranoid Professionsl Post-Office Proofer) Good heavens, Sparks, what *haven't you been in a former life? Reminds me, we haven't seen a bio from you! Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 17:15:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:11:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: villagesoftsmith.com!steve From: Steve Wernecke To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Tinning edges of foiled pieces? Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:09:09 -0800 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990215150909.00914770@mail.villagesoftsmith.com> Precedence: bulk One of the beading methods the Rich/Mitchell/Ward book recommends is to tin the *edges* of all foiled pieces with 50/50 before layout, then flat solder (50/50), then bead (60/40). Is the edge tinning step really worth it? It takes a lot of extra time...not to mention the occasional burns when working with small pieces and flux on the finger tips. Before my world view was upset by that book's advice, I was happy as a clam beading my 60/40 over a 50/50 flat soldered base and not thinking much about the hidden edges. Now I'm wondering if a work that hasn't been edge tinned is weaker structurally than one that has. I suspect the solder heart is much more uniform on an edge-tinned piece. With flat soldering alone, we depend on a heart forming from solder that maybe flows and maybe doesn't past inner edges that were fluxed only by drip-through coincidence. For that matter, is the solder heart really all that important to the strength of a foiled work? Obviously, the better the fit between pieces, the *narrower* the heart. That tempts me to conclude that the heart mustn't matter much at all, but then I think about steel I-beams. They clearly resist bending more than would two randomly connected parallel steel strips the same width and thickness. I think I'm convincing myself that the foil itself provides the essential heart and that extra solder in between the pieces is nice but not really necessary. If that's true, a panel assembled with 1.5 mil foil of a given width would be stronger than the same panel using thinner foil of the same width. Seems reasonable. Can anyone speak with authority...or pretend to do so ;-)? Confusedly yours, Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 17:46:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:53:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:52:55 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.135255.0> References: <<1999Feb15.113318.0>> Precedence: bulk Dani Greer wrote: > > -------------Forwarded Message----------------- > > From: Dani Greer, = > > To: INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com, INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com > = > > Date: 2/15/99 2:20 PM > > RE: Re: Advice on first tools > > Message text written by INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com > >So unless and until I develop a "magic touch" like Dani & co.< > > Magic ain't got nothin' to do with it.... just practice. It takes a > lot less time to skip the grinding stage especially on large > many-piece windows... aLOT less time. Unfortunately, it's > a fact of life that if you plan to make stained glass your > career, you have to make money at it.... and saving time makes > money. The point is, I don't care if you grind or not. Grind to > your hearts' content. The information I pass on is simply one > professional's perspective.... if you wanna be like us, here's > how we do it. It you don't, ignore what I have to say. You're = > > getting the same info I give to a college class. We assume > they're taking a college class because they want to be = > > professionals.... so, they're trained to be just that, and one of > the things you have to learn is speed - and cutting glass fast > and well is an essential to being a professional. Cutting glass = > > fast and well usually precludes a lot of grinding. Just a fact of > glass life. = > > Best regards, > > Dani Greer > Greer Gallery & Studios > www.igga.org/greer/ = > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass not neccerily. look at my work. i use the grinder quite a bit. i don't trim off a ton, just a hair here and there. and of course the razor sharp edges. it also depends on hand eye coordination on how fast you can grind. how long it takes you to foil with your hnds all cut up and bleeding. where the grinder is located, sink, foiling area, etc. i take a little while because my grinder is no where near me. a proffessional can use a grinder, or does'nt. a proffesional house painter can use a brush or a sprayer. a lawn guy can use a hand held mower or a riding. a bush cutting guy can use a hand held bush trimmer, or an eletric. all the things work, some faster then other's. the lawn guy riding the mower may be an awful driver, and is cutting in all directions but straight. or maybe not. mainly a proffesional should'nt be judged on what tools he/she uses or not. will you or other's suddenly turn your noses up because i, gasp... use the grinder? if the work is done quickly and accurately, it really should'nt matter what you use. a carborundum stone may take even longer then a grinder, and not be as accurate... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 18:17:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:57:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Work and learning styles, was Re: Grinder vs glass cutter Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:56:18 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.135618.0> References: <<199902152106.QAA11633@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis wrote: > > > little teeny bit (OK, more like a lot) on the arrogant and overcontrolling > > side for anyone in any line of work to insist that everyone - even their own > > employees - do every itty bitty detail "my way or the highway." Getting the > > work done well and in a timely manner - and *safely* as well - is what's > > important. > > I'll admit that my comment had to do with studio craftspeople, that > is, employees of firms in business to make money. I'm not sure it's > arrogant on the part of a professional studio owner to expect his/her > employees to be both productive and efficient. Safe? Sure. Efficient? > You bet! And if professional craftspeople used a grinder on every > piece they cut, believe me, the "highway" is what it'd be. > > Of course, some hobbyists wish to attain professional skill levels > ... my comments were pointed at them too and (I've already apologized > for this) my comments might have seemed harsh and unforgiving on the > grinder question and I didn't mean them to be. They were meant to be > encouraging. > > Oh, I suspected the walker wasn't a good analogy. I was picturing the > thingamabob that oldsters who just can't walk without them use, > pitching it ahead of them one step, then taking a step, then pitching > it ahead of them again, and so on. After I sent the comment off, I > visualized the *other kind of walker, the one that *encourages > walking. Oh, well, the hazards of an imperfect language, not > to mention my own imperfect skill set in using it. > > Albert > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass though some time is wasted. materials may be saved. ripped foil due to sharp glass. and if pieces don't fit exactly, solder would be wasted somewhat. maybe the tiffany people did'nt have to handle it as much. chances are they did'nt need to rub the glass alot, because i don't think it would stick any better then it already was. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 18:27:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:54:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!SGriffiSBG From: SGriffiSBG@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Work and learning styles, was Re: Grinder vs glass cutter Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:50:26 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb16.05026.0> Precedence: bulk ooooooohhhhhhh NICE going, sparks. Eloquently stated and very precise. My sentiments exactly and forget about returning me back to the regularly scheduled program.......:-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 19:04:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:27:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:33:50 +0000 Message-ID: <199902160126.UAA14985@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > as a first tool, the grinder can make the time when accurate cutting is > achieved much longer to achieve. The objective is to get good skill > levels which will stay with them through their career. Thank you, Steve. That's what I was trying to say, but didn't. A grinder is the player piano of learning to cut glass. You don't have to do scales. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 19:17:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:28:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Artistry, was Re: cutting vs. grinding Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:33:50 +0000 Message-ID: <199902160127.UAA15284@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > The same goes for glass artists too. I read recently that the much-mentioned > (and occasionally maligned) Chihuly doesn't do his own glassblowing because > with one eye he has no depth perception, so it wouldn't be safe for him or the > other folks he works with. So he designs and supervises. Actually, he's practicing what's normal anywhere outside North America. In Europe, for instance, the artist/designer would never actually execute the work. It's a very "new world" approach to do that. So in a way, he's re-created the Murano glass shop whatever his excuse or explanation might be. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 19:29:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:28:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:33:50 +0000 Message-ID: <199902160127.UAA15794@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > allright here's another example: air conditioners. in the summer time we > all consider them a neccesity. Not I. Don't own one. Grew up in Southern California in 120-degree summers. No AC. Just what they called "desert coolers": water dripped down through excelsior, fan driving dampened air into house. Here in Massachusetts 40 years later: no AC. Don't want it. Dries out sinuses. Hate that. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 19:33:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:28:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Dani Greer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: cutting vs. grinding Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:32:03 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.13323.0> References: <<1999Feb15.123117.0>> Precedence: bulk Well...I dont know about anyone else, but after having read all of this thread, *I* was feeling totally and completely depressed. All the while thanking God that my family and I are not dependant on my getting a *job* in a high production glass studio. Keeping in mind, that Social Work isnt highly valued in our society and doesnt pay well...but at least I know I can get a job. That is depressing enough in itself~! ;o) 'bout that time I was ready for a good cry, been awhile anyway. No blood, or sweat today...but come on tears! Luckily for me, I *finally* fell in love with this latest *thing* I am making, that I didnt really want to, but my sister (yes family) paid me in advance to make for her to give as a gift. I didnt like her color choices etc...well, the glass is finished and it looks soooooo cool! ;o) The 'ole glass world isnt losing me today! ;o) Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 19:37:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:29:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Steve Wernecke Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Tinning edges of foiled pieces? Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:27:49 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.152749.0> References: <<3.0.3.32.19990215150909.00914770@mail.villagesoftsmith.com>> Precedence: bulk Steve Wernecke wrote: > > One of the beading methods the Rich/Mitchell/Ward book recommends is to tin > the *edges* of all foiled pieces with 50/50 before layout, then flat solder > (50/50), then bead (60/40). Is the edge tinning step really worth it? It > takes a lot of extra time...not to mention the occasional burns when > working with small pieces and flux on the finger tips. > > Before my world view was upset by that book's advice, I was happy as a clam > beading my 60/40 over a 50/50 flat soldered base and not thinking much > about the hidden edges. Now I'm wondering if a work that hasn't been edge > tinned is weaker structurally than one that has. I suspect the solder > heart is much more uniform on an edge-tinned piece. With flat soldering > alone, we depend on a heart forming from solder that maybe flows and maybe > doesn't past inner edges that were fluxed only by drip-through coincidence. > > For that matter, is the solder heart really all that important to the > strength of a foiled work? Obviously, the better the fit between pieces, > the *narrower* the heart. That tempts me to conclude that the heart > mustn't matter much at all, but then I think about steel I-beams. They > clearly resist bending more than would two randomly connected parallel > steel strips the same width and thickness. > > I think I'm convincing myself that the foil itself provides the essential > heart and that extra solder in between the pieces is nice but not really > necessary. If that's true, a panel assembled with 1.5 mil foil of a given > width would be stronger than the same panel using thinner foil of the same > width. Seems reasonable. Can anyone speak with authority...or pretend to > do so ;-)? > > Confusedly yours, > > Steve > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it's a waste of time to tin everything first. put it together, solder and your done. it's more likely that the project won't fit as well due to the extra solder on the foil. and the foil grip may unglue do to extra uneeded heat. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 20:04:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:19:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: cutting vs. grinding Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:16:52 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.171652.0> Precedence: bulk Suzanne, Sounds to me like the problem is in the breaking technique rather than in the score. When you bend glass to break it you create a pressure focus on the underside of the glass. If you use the Morton system with the little button, the focus is an actual point, right where the button is. If you use your hands to break the glass there is not an actual focus point where something pushes up on the glass behind the score but rather you create an "implied focus" where the forces from your two hands meet. If this implied focus is not landing directly behind the score your glass will flare toward the location of the implied focus. In the case of a score line that curves back and forth you must address each curve in the line with a bending action tailored just for that part of the curve. If you just grab it at one and and muscle the break straight across the glass the focus will be in one place only and everything to the right of it will have flares pointing to the left and everything to the left of the focus will have flares pointing to the right Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:17:34 -0600 Suzanne writes: >Ok.. > >Not wanting to go see Elisabeth with *all* my glass having met my >grinder....(I told ya I was scared) > >I have been inspecting each of my breaks to critique each and every >score. This is what I have found... > >My score looks good (to me) right amount of pressure and appears >even. > >When I have a very thin amount of glass to break off...if it doesnt >all >come off together, I find little mountains on the glasses broken edge >(make sense?) but the line is fine on the top and bottom of the glass. > >The mini mountain is what I would grind off. Cant groze it off >without >getting into my peice of glass. > >Another thing I find is with a wavy score, the top side line is >fine... >but it doesnt break straight up and down on the edge...so that the >bottom side of the glass comes out a little further than the top. A >small slope. Sheesh this challenges my communications skills. > >Is this caused by not holding my cutter staight up and down? Hope >you >guys can visualise what I am referring to. > >There isnt much to grind off..just enough to make my glass straight >up >and down. Am I tilting??? > >I hold my cutter like an ice pick! ;o) This assumes that y'all know >how >to hold an ice pick to judge how I hold my cutter! > >Thanks > >Tulsa Suzanne >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 20:28:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:20:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: Witchdoc3@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Work and learning styles, was Re: Grinder vs glass cutter Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:58:51 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.165851.0> Precedence: bulk Sparks, Glass is different in that you can't UNscore or UNcut it. You can't just rip a couple of stiches if your maching goes off course. As such there is a huge psychological obstacle that creates a fear that just won't allow someone to cut as small as they must initially once they have experienced the grind large and cut to fit technique. I really want my students to cut something fairly crude at first. Ihave them foil it with 7/32 foil and they invariably are STUNNED at how well it turns out! This is empowering. They need not live in mortal fear of a tiny gap. They get to see on the first project how little difference it really makes. If they started out grinding each piece to perfection they will be convinced that they must do that each time to get an acceptable product, which is just not the case. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com > >I disagree completely........ > >First off, I compare my experience in learning glass craft with my >experience >when I learned to sew, for instance. When I started to learn to sew on >the >machine (at age 8), I had to do a lot of pinning, basting, extra >measuring, >etc. so my work would go together smoothly. As I got better at it, the >basting >was the first to go (except in really tricky spots), then most of the >pins, >and I learned to "eyeball" the width of an elastic casing or a 2" hem. >Now I >can sew in a zipper by machine with no pinning at all, "eyeball" >alterations, >cobble together my own patterns, etc. > >No one would ever have suggested that I run the sewing machine at top >speed >right off the bat, or put together my first sewing projects without >pinning >before running the piece through the machine. And yes, I *can* hand >sew >(learned that first, along with embroidery, starting around age 5), >and >usually do my mending that way 'cause I feel too lazy to set up the >machine >for something small. But ordinarily I don't do that when making >something new, >and (except for the real die-hard "period garb" makers who even spin, >weave >and dye their own cloth), no one expects new clothes to be made that >way! > >Second, I think the way any individual person works depends at least >in part >on what "level" one jumps in at (incidentally, my first >machine-sewing >projects were Barbie doll clothes, which require 1/4" seams and very >precise >fitting) *and* on one's level of physical coordination. I've never >done >stained glass as a hobby or taken any formal lessons; I got "thrown in >the >deep end" when Christie needed some extra help. I've had to rely on my >own >mechanical aptitude and learn on the fly what's the most efficient way >for >*me* to work, and sometimes it's not the way she works. I have a >rather shaky >hand, so my work style compensates for that; for instance, I have to >use a lot >more push pins than she does when I'm assembling something - but as a >result I >don't waste time repositioning pieces I've knocked out of kilter! >There have >even been a couple of times when she's picked up on a trick or two of >mine. > >There's also the way one's brain is wired conceptually - questions of >"Do you >put the shirt on the hanger, or the hanger in the shirt?" and "Do you >put the >thread through the eye of the needle, or slip the eye of the needle >over the >end of the thread?" In both instances it's the latter for me. I also >do a lot >of things naturally from right to left even though I'm mostly >right-handed in >a left-to-right society (incidentally, I'm also mostly left-footed). >Realizing >that I'm wired "conceptually backwards" and allowing myself to work >according >to the way I'm wired has been an overwhelmingly empowering thing; by >following >my own wiring, I'm able to do things I was never able to learn "the >regular >way" no matter how hard I tried - and do them well. > >There's also the question of any person's own natural pace and rhythm. >I'm a >naturally "fast" worker, and my rhythms are way different from those >of a >naturally "slow" worker. What works for me is simply different from >what works >for a slow worker - a notable example being that I didn't learn to >solder >smoothly until I cranked the iron way up and let my natural pace take >over >instead of trying to do it slowly with a cooler iron, which resulted >in a lot >of unevenness. > >I find that for me personally, that "natural pace" has a mental >component too; >if I try to slow down what I'm doing physically, I often lose track >and get >confused because the flow is interrupted. (I've always been that way, >maybe >it's an "ADD thang.") > >It's also important to draw a distinction between learning glass (or >any art >or craft) as a hobby (which is where almost everyone starts out) and >entering >an apprenticeship in a high-end pro shop. The point of doing glass as >a hobby >is as much to provide relaxation and "a place to escape to" as to >produce >beautiful things. Nobody's judging your performance, counting up the >sheets of >glass you destroy, or breathing down your neck to make you "work >faster" like >they do all day in the "real world." There's a lot of ground, some of >it >occupied by people who do beautiful work and get paid for it (which, >all >hairsplitting aside, is the fundamental definition of "professional") >between >the two extremes; it's not an either/or situation. And if this or that >tool >enables someone to avoid frustration and do neater work while >developing their >skills and getting ready for the next level, who are we - any of us, >even >those who have been at it for 30 years - to criticize? > >Finally (and I speak from experience as a supervisor too, this having >been a >really stinkin' hard lesson for me to learn on that side), I think >it's just a >little teeny bit (OK, more like a lot) on the arrogant and >overcontrolling >side for anyone in any line of work to insist that everyone - even >their own >employees - do every itty bitty detail "my way or the highway." >Getting the >work done well and in a timely manner - and *safely* as well - is >what's >important. > >The upshot of it is, everyone doesn't - indeed *can't* - work the same >way. >We've all got to do what's most efficient for us. And I think the >"crutch" >argument is *way* over-used. One person's crutch is another person's >valuable >tool. Everyone doesn't stay in "training wheels" mode forever; I dare >say most >of us are more than eager to get away from the training wheels! > >And BTW, Albert: in 40-something years I've never known a healthy, >able-bodied >baby who used a walker and never learned to walk without it - or one >who >learned to stand without pulling him- or herself up on the furniture >or mom's >or dad's leg or the drapes or the dog or whatever else was handy. >Eventually >all babies are off and running unless some abusive ghoul kicked their >feet out >from under them once too many. And whether we're learning to walk or >to do >glass, as we grow and develop, we all arrive at our own conclusions >about >what's necessary and what's not............. > >We now return you to your regularly scheduled program already in >progress. > > >Sparks >---- > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 20:36:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:21:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: lcbell@memach.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: cutting vs. grinding Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:50:21 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.165021.0> Precedence: bulk Linda, You've just broken the glass and in your other hand you're holding the scrap. In one second before you toss it in the can you can just swipe it across the other piece and save running to the grinder and getting the whole thing all wet, then having to rinse and dry it. All that time away from the water will work wonders for you skin too. (Assuming you learn how to foil without getting cut on the unground glass.) On Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:48:04 -0500 Linda Campbell writes: > >Serious Question? > >Even on a good score and break, the top or bottom edge may have a >sharp sliver edge. >Why groze when you can grind lightly? > >Linda >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 21:06:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:39:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: steve@villagesoftsmith.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Tinning edges of foiled pieces? Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:45:55 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.164555.0> Precedence: bulk Steve, I have never known a professional who pretinned or even planned on passing the iron over every piece twice. Where I worked my first job we used 5050 canfield solder on 25 pound spools and in 1/4" bars and soldered in one pass with a 250 to 300 watt Hexacon iron. If you don't allow sufficient solder to penetrate between your pieces and create the "heart" (as in cames) your work will be very weak and larger works may collapse over time. Furthermore very tight fitting glass is a formula for heat and stress cracks during soldering and turning panels over during work. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:09:09 -0800 Steve Wernecke writes: >One of the beading methods the Rich/Mitchell/Ward book recommends is >to tin >the *edges* of all foiled pieces with 50/50 before layout, then flat >solder >(50/50), then bead (60/40). Is the edge tinning step really worth it? > It >takes a lot of extra time...not to mention the occasional burns when >working with small pieces and flux on the finger tips. > >Before my world view was upset by that book's advice, I was happy as a >clam >beading my 60/40 over a 50/50 flat soldered base and not thinking >much >about the hidden edges. Now I'm wondering if a work that hasn't been >edge >tinned is weaker structurally than one that has. I suspect the >solder >heart is much more uniform on an edge-tinned piece. With flat >soldering >alone, we depend on a heart forming from solder that maybe flows and >maybe >doesn't past inner edges that were fluxed only by drip-through >coincidence. > >For that matter, is the solder heart really all that important to the >strength of a foiled work? Obviously, the better the fit between >pieces, >the *narrower* the heart. That tempts me to conclude that the heart >mustn't matter much at all, but then I think about steel I-beams. >They >clearly resist bending more than would two randomly connected >parallel >steel strips the same width and thickness. > >I think I'm convincing myself that the foil itself provides the >essential >heart and that extra solder in between the pieces is nice but not >really >necessary. If that's true, a panel assembled with 1.5 mil foil of a >given >width would be stronger than the same panel using thinner foil of the >same >width. Seems reasonable. Can anyone speak with authority...or >pretend to >do so ;-)? > >Confusedly yours, > >Steve > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 22:09:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:04:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: sssnet.com!classi From: "Karen F." To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: cutting and grinding Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 23:58:34 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.185834.0> Precedence: bulk The professionals' debate on this subject hit an emotional nerve here too, Suzanne. Every word that I have read from these fine artists points out my shortcomings as a new person just trying to turn out a decent and respectable piece of work. It couldn't have come at a better time for me. I have gone down to the basement and looked at the needless break lines that I put in the pattern and realized that I should re-cut areas of the design with one large piece instead of two pieces to give it simplicity for a more pleasing design. I found that the reason so many pieces had gaps between them was because I was using the grinder to compensate for careless cutting. Of course the grinder pressure I used was too much in some areas, thus the gaps. My cuts were "blocky" and not graceful and flowing. I used the grinder to round out the "corners" that I created instead of the flowing lines that I should have cut. Even though the grinder was part of the start-up kit when I took a few lessons, the instructor did not tell me to use the grinder religiously. That bad habit I fell into when I started working at home because I assumed it made it easier for me to get the puzzle pieces to "sort of fit". In the long run, that has proven to be a false assumption. Someone on one of the lists said that if stained glass were easy, everyone would be doing it. I just came to the realization that it isn't easy, but I am determined to do it! My goals are not lofty. I merely want to create pretty things for myself and my friends and have a damn good time doing it! I have to start tomorrow morning and concentrate on basic cutting. First things first! Thanks for the help all of you fine artists. This is one of your online students who heard today's lesson loud and clear. Regards, Karen F. mailto:classi@sssnet.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 22:24:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:07:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: cutting vs. grinding Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 00:05:19 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.19519.0> Precedence: bulk Suzanne, Sounds to me like the problem is in the breaking technique rather than in the score. When you bend glass to break it you create a pressure focus on the underside of the glass. If you use the Morton system with the little button, the focus is an actual point, right where the button is. If you use your hands to break the glass there is not an actual focus point where something pushes up on the glass behind the score but rather you create an "implied focus" where the forces from your two hands meet. If this implied focus is not landing directly behind the score your glass will flare toward the location of the implied focus. In the case of a score line that curves back and forth you must address each curve in the line with a bending action tailored just for that part of the curve. If you just grab it at one and and muscle the break straight across the glass the focus will be in one place only and everything to the right of it will have flares pointing to the left and everything to the left of the focus will have flares pointing to the right Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:17:34 -0600 Suzanne writes: >Ok.. > >Not wanting to go see Elisabeth with *all* my glass having met my >grinder....(I told ya I was scared) > >I have been inspecting each of my breaks to critique each and every >score. This is what I have found... > >My score looks good (to me) right amount of pressure and appears >even. > >When I have a very thin amount of glass to break off...if it doesnt >all >come off together, I find little mountains on the glasses broken edge >(make sense?) but the line is fine on the top and bottom of the glass. > >The mini mountain is what I would grind off. Cant groze it off >without >getting into my peice of glass. > >Another thing I find is with a wavy score, the top side line is >fine... >but it doesnt break straight up and down on the edge...so that the >bottom side of the glass comes out a little further than the top. A >small slope. Sheesh this challenges my communications skills. > >Is this caused by not holding my cutter staight up and down? Hope >you >guys can visualise what I am referring to. > >There isnt much to grind off..just enough to make my glass straight >up >and down. Am I tilting??? > >I hold my cutter like an ice pick! ;o) This assumes that y'all know >how >to hold an ice pick to judge how I hold my cutter! > >Thanks > >Tulsa Suzanne >---- > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 15 23:15:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:19:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet From: "Karen K." To: Subject: Re: Work and learning styles, was Re: Grinder vs glass cutter Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 01:16:55 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.201655.0> Precedence: bulk Sparks, Very Well Said I motion that we move on and put an end to this thread and everyone just agrees to disagree on the subject! Karen Think Spring! >ooooooohhhhhhh NICE going, sparks. Eloquently stated and very precise. My >sentiments exactly and forget about returning me back to the regularly >scheduled program.......:-) >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 00:46:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 23:38:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 02:19:10 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb15.211910.0> Precedence: bulk Interesting...."(looks) deceptively good" now translates to "too perfect"! Often these deceptively good looking pieces are so tightly fitted that the solder can't even penetrate between the glass leaving the work FATALLY WEAKENED. All that is there is a lacework of solder on the surfaces held together only by the foil connecting the front and rear solder "filigrees". Believe it or not folks this is not structurally sound. Foil is meant to be the substrate upon which the structural solder is laid. Don't depend on foil, or worse yet the foil adhesive as the major structural elements in your work. And anyway the point has to do with what the beginner is lead to believe. I think everyone has the RIGHT TO KNOW the most widely accepted professional methods and get a fair chance to give it a try before being hi-jacked by a grinder salesman masquerading as a teacher. If after a fair try they decide that standing in front of a grinder all day is a rewarding hobby, that's ok. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:52:41 EST JJKIRBY@aol.com writes: > ><< The BIG problem all begins because the beginner is allowed by this > flawed technique of OVER GRINDING to produce a product that is > deceptively good. Once having made a nice looking product, the >thought > of the next not being as good or better is unbearable. Sure they'd >like > to try cutting the glass better but the fear that it will come out >too > small and the solder lines will be fat or uneven is overwhelming. >Almost > from the first project they're hooked! > I tell my students that there is no shame in making an >imperfect piece. > "Send it off to your relatives in California. >> > > >This is fascinating: Gary says using a grinder can make your work too > >perfect, Albert says using a grinder results in less craftsmanship. > >To paraphrase Gertrude Stein: a grinder is a grinder is a grinder > >Tools (imho) tend to be independent from the person who uses them. >The >results >tend to be a third independent quantity. > >As a neo-caveman artist, I can just spit on the wall, or I can >create >graceful >horses and bison. Correspondingly with the latest airbrush and >acrylics, I >can just spray or create art. > >The art matters, the craft matters - the tools say nothing about the >person >who >uses them - except in cases of reproduction or restoration. > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 02:21:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 01:12:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Dbkstudio From: Dbkstudio@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: unsubscribe Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 04:11:52 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb16.91152.0> Precedence: bulk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 03:13:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 02:18:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: cutting and grinding Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 05:09:45 +0000 Message-ID: <199902161002.FAA17767@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Someone on one of the lists said that if stained glass were easy, everyone > would be doing it. I just came to the realization that it isn't easy, but I > am determined to do it! Bravo, Karen! Doing anything well is worth the effort. Those who push products want it to be easy ... and it *is, in a way. But doing it well takes gumption and a willingness to be the best you can be. Sounds like the flame of fine craftsmanship has kindled itself in you. Good luck and God speed! Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 03:28:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 02:21:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep From: "Brian Shepherd" To: "Dani Greer" , "Everyone" Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:41:30 -0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.94130.0> Precedence: bulk Dani said >The information I pass on is simply one >professional's perspective.... if you wanna be like us, here's >how we do it. I agree 100 per cent! I hope nobody is surpised at that. The key word here is professional. If you are a hobbiest - please yourself. If you need to lean on the grinder then that's ok don't feel bad about it - you can still produce good work. I'd rather see you making things that quitting. If your are a hobbiest wanting to be professional then listen to the people who know how to do it. If your are a trainee professional then sell your grinder to a hobbiest who could do with a bargain! If you are a professional then you can grind (just a occasionally!) I do as I do with a clear conscience - so should we all! I'm ok with all that -- my very last word! (On THAT subject!) BtB ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 03:42:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 02:25:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep From: "Brian Shepherd" To: , , "bungi" Subject: Re: cutting vs. grinding Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:16:31 -0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.101631.0> Precedence: bulk Hello What's this about a tiny cutter? Have I missed a posting? I've got one made by called a Silberschnitt 424.0 that I have yet to try out. It's a very small tungsten carbide wheel at the end of an adjustable arm fitted into a palm held handle. Is that the same thing? If so I'd love to know how you get on with it Paula. It's supposed to be good for cutting small pieces of glass?? I haven't had a chance to try it yet! (too busy grinding!) BtB >Paula, >I am very curious about your tiny cutter. Is there some way you could find >out the name and/or manufacturer of it? Is it really old? >Lenore >---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 04:01:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 02:37:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: Gloria and George <3hounds@usaor.net> To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: unsubscribe/stainglasborzoi@webtv.net Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 05:33:23 -0200 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.33323.0> Precedence: bulk please take me off the list at "stainglasborzoi@webtv.net" until my equipment is repaired. thank you. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 05:59:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 04:35:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Steve Wernecke Subject: Re: Tinning edges of foiled pieces? Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:36:27 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.113627.0> References: <<3.0.3.32.19990215150909.00914770@mail.villagesoftsmith.com>> Precedence: bulk Steve, I'll pretend to authority! :-) In message <3.0.3.32.19990215150909.00914770@mail.villagesoftsmith.com>, Steve Wernecke writes >One of the beading methods the Rich/Mitchell/Ward book recommends is to tin >the *edges* of all foiled pieces with 50/50 before layout, then flat solder >(50/50), then bead (60/40). Is the edge tinning step really worth it? It >takes a lot of extra time...not to mention the occasional burns when >working with small pieces and flux on the finger tips. > >Before my world view was upset by that book's advice, I was happy as a clam >beading my 60/40 over a 50/50 flat soldered base and not thinking much >about the hidden edges. Now I'm wondering if a work that hasn't been edge >tinned is weaker structurally than one that has. I suspect the solder >heart is much more uniform on an edge-tinned piece. With flat soldering >alone, we depend on a heart forming from solder that maybe flows and maybe >doesn't past inner edges that were fluxed only by drip-through coincidence. > You already are making two passes with the iron over the assembled piece. I do tin the edges and sides of copper foil, sometimes with 50/50, and then finish with 60/40. So this is only two passes too. No time lost due to tinning. But actually, I tin only when I'm making something which has to be water tight, as I have found that makes a better seal. If it makes a water tight seal, it must be a good joint, so it would seem to be best for flat pieces too. But preference must rule on that one. So, why not consider tinning with 50/50 and then going directly to the 60/40 beading? Even conduct an experiment on which works best for you? >For that matter, is the solder heart really all that important to the >strength of a foiled work? Obviously, the better the fit between pieces, >the *narrower* the heart. That tempts me to conclude that the heart >mustn't matter much at all, but then I think about steel I-beams. They >clearly resist bending more than would two randomly connected parallel >steel strips the same width and thickness. The solder heart is absolutely necessary. without it the piece relies on the adhesive, which will fail long before the solder. The solder bead on copper foil pieces acts as an "I" beam the same way as on came. And it provides the strength of the piece. So tight fitting as to prevent solder to flow in between the two foil faces, will actually make the piece weaker (as well as increase the risk of heat shock breakage, as mentioned by another person) than marginally loose fitting - no slack fitting is allowed! :-) > >I think I'm convincing myself that the foil itself provides the essential >heart and that extra solder in between the pieces is nice but not really >necessary. If that's true, a panel assembled with 1.5 mil foil of a given >width would be stronger than the same panel using thinner foil of the same >width. Seems reasonable. Can anyone speak with authority...or pretend to >do so ;-)? > I hope responses on the list will get you to consider that the "heart" of the copper foil is the strength, not the foil and adhesive. Steve (on the other side of the pond) -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 06:42:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 05:36:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: Albert Lewis Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Artistry, was Re: cutting vs. grinding Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:23:40 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.02340.0> References: <<199902160127.UAA15284@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Organization: SBWSA Precedence: bulk Actually Chihuly is doing the same thing LCT did, only he used mostly women to do his lamps. Carol T Bet they wished then someone had invented a grinder Albert Lewis wrote: > > The same goes for glass artists too. I read recently that the much-mentioned > > (and occasionally maligned) Chihuly doesn't do his own glassblowing because > > with one eye he has no depth perception, so it wouldn't be safe for him or the > > other folks he works with. So he designs and supervises. > > Actually, he's practicing what's normal anywhere outside North > America. In Europe, for instance, the artist/designer would never > actually execute the work. It's a very "new world" approach to do > that. > > So in a way, he's re-created the Murano glass shop whatever his > excuse or explanation might be. > > Albert > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 07:08:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 05:55:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Work and learning styles, was Re: Grinder vs glass cutter Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:42:41 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.04241.0> References: <<1999Feb15.201655.0@[207.126.97.2]>> Organization: SBWSA Precedence: bulk I agree with Sparks. If something works for you, then use it. I use the Morton system that has been maligned here too, but I love it, wouldn't give up the button for anything. My cutting is good, I prefer to use the grinder not to "make the pieces fit" but to take off rough edges. I think it does a better job than grozing and probably in the long run takes the same amount of time for me. And for ng - air conditioning - you can't live in NC without it, as a matter of fact, NJ either. JMHO. Carol T Into the 21st century with my grinder, Morton system, various "gadgets", and A/C. Karen K wrote: > Sparks, > Very Well Said > > I motion that we move on and put an end to this thread and everyone just > agrees to disagree on the subject! > > Karen > Think Spring! > > >ooooooohhhhhhh NICE going, sparks. Eloquently stated and very precise. > My > >sentiments exactly and forget about returning me back to the regularly > >scheduled program.......:-) > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 07:44:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 06:46:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: socent.org!atf From: "ATF Distribution Center-K. See" To: Brian Shepherd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:45:51 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.44551.0> References: <<1999Feb14.10459.0>> Organization: SOC Enterprises Precedence: bulk Brian, I agree. "Different strokes for different folks". I understand both sides but each of us has to do what we are comfortable with. It's the "doing" that makes all phases of glassing easier. practice, practice, practice. K See Brian Shepherd wrote: > Hello > > Ok if we aren't going to slam peoples work or pricing then let's slam their > techniques! BG > > I don't think anybody would deny that there people in this world who are > better at cutting glass that others - they must be they tell us so! Ok then > that gives us all something to aspire to. > > I admire all skilled people. No skills are easily won and they are priceless > to those who have them and a wonder to observe. We all venerate > craftsmanship! > > We should all remember that a grinder is an enabling tool. It allows people > to make things in stained glass without having to acquire the cutting skills > first. I don't think there is anything wrong with that in this urgent age. > > I began by grozing from the start. My cutting was appalling. Then I got a > grinder so I groze then ground to shape. As my skills improved I gave up > nearly!) grozing and ground only. Now I ALWAYS grind lightly (at least!) > just so that I can handle and foil the piece with confidence. > > I will not be admonished for using a work pattern that suits me! > > So all you non grinders can go around patting your selves and your friends > on the back and feeling holier than everybody else if it makes you happy - > you deserve it. > > All you grinders need feel no remorse. You are good guys as well! Your > skills will come if you work at them but you have no reason to feel humbled > in the presence of all this greatness! > > Anyway - it's results that matter - who cares how you make it - if it's > beautiful it's beautiful! > > :o) > > BtB > > PS I don't think the LCT factory would have used a grinder - ever! I think > they would have used one of these high pressure water cutter thingies if > they had been available! > > PPS On second thoughts maybe LCT would have used a completely automated > assembly plant - if they had been available. The only thing he might have > resisted would have been automatic colour selection (for a while at least!) > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 08:03:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 06:28:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: socent.org!atf From: "ATF Distribution Center-K. See" To: Jennifer Frisbee , bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: First tools Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:27:01 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.4271.0> References: <<1999Feb13.231834.0>> Organization: SOC Enterprises Precedence: bulk Hi Jennifer, Try to take advantage of Delphi Stained Glass for your grinder purchase; they offer 25% off your first order. address: delphiglass.com Welcome to bungi K See Jennifer Frisbee wrote: > Thanks for the advice. I think you are right...I was getting a bit ahead of myself. I think I'm becoming a tool-junkie just like my husband! > > The reason I brought up the saw and grinder bit is due to the Powerkits system we had seen in the Inland catalog. Since both of us do a good deal of craft work (my husband builds puppets and marionettes), we thought that it might be a good investment. However, for my stained glass work right now I really don't need the saw at all. The grinder, however, really helped my last piece come together (a small kaleidoscope with a lot of little pieces)...so I may bite the bullet and invest in one soon. > > Well...thanks again....back to the practicing board! > > Jen Frisbee - newbie extraordinaire! > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 08:52:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 07:25:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: fair.net!andor From: "Linda Letscher" To: "Karen F." , Subject: Re: cutting and grinding Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:22:51 -0500 Message-ID: <199902161524.KAA18414@smtp.america.net> Precedence: bulk Karen F. First of all I must say I am not a fine artist, but a person that works in and at stained glass and find I love it. I try hard and do the very best I can with whatever I am doing. Don't be so hard on yourself, just keep on plugging. All of these things take time and practice. I am in the midst of debating with a neighbor that is new to stained glass many issues, and it is apparent she can't see mine and I surely can't see hers. She is brand new, I have spent time showing and letting her cut glass with pieces I have laying around. Showing her how I hold my cutter and cut. She has a grinder and saw now and feels she does not need to learn to cut with a glass cutter she can just use the saw. And grind anything else that might come up. So what she has come up with is a way to not cut glass at all. I suppose the next thing she will get is a gizmo that foils her piece. I learned the old fashioned way and now am listening to the people on this page that are doing fine work. I am planning on doing my next window taking into consideration Dani Greer's and other people that have posted recently on this subject, suggestions that I cut better and grind less. I am willing to adapt and learn. I feel a bit bad that I was taught from the beginning that you had to grind to get foil to adhiere to the glass. So this next time griding will not be the order of the day but the exception. So you just keep on keeping on, and don't be too critical of your work, you are just starting out. Do the best you can and on your next piece do better, that is all any of us can as of ourselves. Linda Jo Jacksonville, Florida --Original Message----- From: Karen F. To: glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 1:12 AM Subject: cutting and grinding >The professionals' debate on this subject hit an emotional nerve here too, >Suzanne. Every word that I have read from these fine artists points out my >shortcomings as a new person just trying to turn out a decent and >respectable piece of work. It couldn't have come at a better time for me. I >have gone down to the basement and looked at the needless break lines that I >put in the pattern and realized that I should re-cut areas of the design >with one large piece instead of two pieces to give it simplicity for a more >pleasing design. > >I found that the reason so many pieces had gaps between them was because I >was using the grinder to compensate for careless cutting. Of course the >grinder pressure I used was too much in some areas, thus the gaps. My cuts >were "blocky" and not graceful and flowing. I used the grinder to round out >the "corners" that I created instead of the flowing lines that I should have >cut. > >Even though the grinder was part of the start-up kit when I took a few >lessons, the instructor did not tell me to use the grinder religiously. That >bad habit I fell into when I started working at home because I assumed it >made it easier for me to get the puzzle pieces to "sort of fit". In the long >run, that has proven to be a false assumption. > >Someone on one of the lists said that if stained glass were easy, everyone >would be doing it. I just came to the realization that it isn't easy, but I >am determined to do it! My goals are not lofty. I merely want to create >pretty things for myself and my friends and have a damn good time doing it! > >I have to start tomorrow morning and concentrate on basic cutting. First >things first! > >Thanks for the help all of you fine artists. This is one of your online >students who heard today's lesson loud and clear. > >Regards, >Karen F. >mailto:classi@sssnet.com > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 09:05:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 07:31:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: cutting and grinding Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:19:23 +0000 Message-ID: <199902161530.PAA26583@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hi All, What a wonderful and gracious statement from Karen F. !!! What a delight it would have been to have had you as a student! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Karen F. wrote: Thanks for the help all of you fine artists. This is one of your online students who heard today's lesson loud and clear. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 09:05:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 07:37:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: business card holders Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:39:33 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.53933.0> Precedence: bulk sorry folks to those of you I promised jpg files. I sent 7 from home this weekend...I promise. Seems my server had trouble with the attachments. I even tried to send the file to myself here at work but it didn't work. Will put on a disk tonight and bring to work to e-mail tomorrow. I have a partial list of ya'll who asked for copies. If your name does not appear here and you would like to get a copy of the files, please send again. sorry for the lateness and trouble. Glass Expressions Dee Thompson Lenore Jerri Linda Letscher Kay Sodt gjr@bungi.com charles_spitzer@stratus.com MISGLAS@aol.com glasscat@infinet.com PDRUSS@aol.com glassx@bardstown.com seaspray@mail.island.net fullspec@sunset.net Linda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 10:42:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:44:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Score Patterns Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:46:53 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.64653.0> Precedence: bulk Spectrum's web page with copies of SCORE, used to give you the monthly patterns. Now they are missing. I e-mailed Spectrum and this is their response along with my post. Nice Company. :) Linda -----Original Message----- >Noticed a recent change in your on-line score - no patterns. Okay, I can >un erstand that the purpose of score is to get folks to visit their local >retail and that generates business and more opportunities to buy >Spectrum glass but how about a peek of the patterns, maybe a small gif >so we can see if it is something that interests us. > >Thanks for all the great glass & great web site. > >Linda Campbell Well, Linda, that's a thought! I'll discuss it with the powers that be and see what we can do! Thanks for the idea! Sara Peterson Marketing Assistant artglass@SpectrumGlass.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 11:00:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:30:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Work and learning styles Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:28:40 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb16.162840.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/15/99 10:19:39 PM, dodgestudio@juno.com wrote: >Glass is different in that you can't UNscore or UNcut it. You can't "uncut" fabric either. A slip of the scissors can ruin things just as quickly as a slip of the cutter wheel. >You can't just >rip a couple of stiches if your maching goes off course. In the course of my learning, I've done proportionally just about as much unsoldering and resoldering as seam-ripping when things didn't fit properly. Blecchhhhh. >I really want my students to cut something fairly crude at first. That makes a big difference. I didn't have the "luxury" (?) of starting out on something crude. I had to start off producing "the good stuff." >there >is a huge psychological obstacle that creates a fear that just won't >allow someone to cut as small as they must initially once they have >experienced the grind large and cut to fit technique. That's true for some people, not for others. And that's the thing that really bugs me about this whole biz: the assumptions (often unconscious or unacknowledged) that everyone's brain is wired the same and will have the same "psycholigical obstacles," that everyone's body is wired the same (low rumble of lefties and "ambies" getting riled all over the place), that there's only one "right" way to teach (a misconception that plagues the educational field in general), only one "right" way to learn (ditto), only one "really professional" way to do things (which all too often translates in practice to "whatever I personally am bugged by is by definition unprofessional" - an atitude that afflicts not only "bosses" but all of us to some degree), etc. Some folks say that sort of thing is "just human nature," but meeting up with and getting burned by tacit assumptions like that is perhaps the biggest psychological obstacle of all. Fortunately, it's also human nature to be able to overcome those assumptions and keep them from turning into prejudices, and to learn to communicate in such a way that they don't imply any (real or imaginary) prejudices. I quit for now...... :-) --------Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 11:04:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:30:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: UPS - or should that have been OOPS! Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:28:37 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb16.162837.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/15/99 8:01:48 PM, suzy@ComCAT.COM wrote: >>Sparks (former Paranoid Professional Post-Office Proofer) > >Good heavens, Sparks, what *haven't you been in a former life? Rich, famous, an astronaut (which, when I was a kid, is what I wanted to be when I grew up)......... just to name a few......... >Reminds me, we haven't seen a bio from you! That's 'cause I'm still trying to get a life :-) Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 11:06:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:30:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:28:34 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb16.162834.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/15/99 6:29:03 PM, GreerStudios@compuserve.com wrote: >Magic ain't got nothin' to do with it.... just practice. Awwwwwww, c'mon, I was bein' facetious! :-) The reality in my universe: Often as not, after months or years, something just "clicks" and I suddenly "get it." My learning "curves" are so full of these quantum leaps that it often feels like "magic." Sometimes my quantum leaps come after I've gotten frustrated and left something for a while and come back to it, only to find that in the mean time it's the "bad" habits that have gotten rusty, leaving the "good" ones room to take over. Hah, didn't I say I'm wired backwards?! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 11:23:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:30:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: Jennifer Frisbee , bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: First tools Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:31:25 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.63125.0> Precedence: bulk Jennifer, compare prices before you use the 25% coupon at Delphi. I was recently ready to make an order of the oak frame and mechanical parts for a clock. Delphi had gone up so high on their prices that even after the 25% off, I could buy it cheaper from another source. And when the limited 25% coupon expires...well, the price is awful. I used to think Delphi's prices were great before the coupon; now I compare them very carefully with other mail-order places. There's always you local shop. If they order other stuff at the same time they order for you, the shipping prices come down. Not so much on glass but on other things, I've noticed that I can pay local sales taxes and get by cheaper than mail order because of the shipping costs. K See said: Hi Jennifer, Try to take advantage of Delphi Stained Glass for your grinder purchase; they offer 25% off your first order. address: delphiglass.com Welcome to bungi K See Jennifer Frisbee wrote: > Thanks for the advice. I think you are right...I was getting a bit ahead of myself. I think I'm becoming a tool-junkie just like my husband! > > The reason I brought up the saw and grinder bit is due to the Powerkits system we had seen in the Inland catalog. Since both of us do a good deal of craft work (my husband builds puppets and marionettes), we thought that it might be a good investment. However, for my stained glass work right now I really don't need the saw at all. The grinder, however, really helped my last piece come together (a small kaleidoscope with a lot of little pieces)...so I may bite the bullet and invest in one soon. > > Well...thanks again....back to the practicing board! > > Jen Frisbee - newbie extraordinaire! > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 11:23:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:31:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Tinning edges of foiled pieces? Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:28:32 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb16.162832.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/15/99 8:16:43 PM, steve@villagesoftsmith.com wrote: >One of the beading methods the Rich/Mitchell/Ward book recommends is to tin >the *edges* of all foiled pieces with 50/50 before layout, then flat solder >(50/50), then bead (60/40). Now *that's* something that's always seemed to me like a far bigger waste of time than grinding will ever be! The only time I tin anything before assembly is when the edge of the work has such a deep "V" where 2 pieces come together (f'rinstance, I have an angel pattern that has one where the wing joins the body) that I wouldn't be able to get the tip of the iron in there. ---------Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 11:23:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:32:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:28:35 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb16.162835.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/15/99 10:30:29 PM, alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net wrote: >Grew up in Southern California in 120-degree >summers. No AC. Just what they called "desert coolers": water dripped >down through excelsior, fan driving dampened air into house. Sheesh. I remember those! We had a great big one in our little tiny house when I was a kid. On really dry days, it actually used to ice up! I don't know if you can even still get them out west. They were wonderfully efficient, no compressor to run, just a fan. If I moved back out there, I'd want to get one of those. The heck with those noisy electricity-gobbling newfangled air-conditioner contraptions! -------Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 11:35:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:32:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:28:30 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb16.162830.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/16/99 3:46:56 AM, dodgestudio@juno.com wrote: >so tightly fitted that >the solder can't even penetrate between the glass leaving the work >FATALLY WEAKENED. All that is there is a lacework of solder on the >surfaces held together only by the foil connecting the front and rear >solder "filigrees". Believe it or not folks this is not structurally >sound. Foil is meant to be the substrate upon which the structural >solder is laid. It always seemed perfectly logical to me that it was the solder "I-beams" that held the piece together. Thanks for the confirmation! ---------Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 11:44:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:41:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Business Card Holders Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:43:39 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.64339.0> Precedence: bulk Sorry for the intrusion to all but I need to know who wanted copies of the jpg files of business card holders for Dentist and Optician. My server at home refused to take the attachments and unfortunately, I thru out the addresss I sent to. Please respond to me again. Teh worst that can happen iw you will get two coppies. :) I return you to the regularly scheduled program now in progerss. Linda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 11:47:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:52:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: ng - test - ignore Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:51:49 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.75149.0> Precedence: bulk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 12:07:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:14:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:12:29 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.81229.0> Precedence: bulk We try to stay away from air conditioners, too. Darned = unhealthy things as far as I'm concerned. Don't have 'em in the autos either. Same category as the grinders.... Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 12:34:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:36:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!vlg From: "Vincent LaGreca" To: "Everyone" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Dale Tiffany? Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:34:58 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.83458.0> Precedence: bulk I walked through J.C. Penny's lamp department recently and saw 16" dragonfly lamps made by Dale Tiffany on sale for $225.00. Whatever the merits of where and who the labor force was, the lamps were well made with extremely consistent solder lines. The solder lines looked as if they could of been done with robotics. Does this technology exist? If so where? Does anyone know where Dale Tiffany is from and where these lamps are made? Tiffany & Company has their corporate headquarters about five miles from my home. I don't think they are a part of him else the price would be more like $22,225. TIA Ciao Vic ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 12:39:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:08:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ksinc.net!twinjeeps From: "twinjeeps" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:34:19 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.53419.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00EE_01BE59A0.4AB703A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all=20 This is really glassyjess (back from the barely breathing again ;)) I just bought a Thompson cutter and have been in heaven, this cutter has = made the biggest difference of all tools bought to-date I can cut even the smallest most intricate pieces now and haven't had to = grind hardly any since buying this perfect cutter. I had a stroke in April leaving my right side diminished and thought I = wasn't going to ever be able to get the hang of scoring. My husband was = ready to buy me the score one (the little sewing machine looking cutter) = but on our way home from shands hospital we stopped in at North Florida = Stained Glass and the owner showed us the Thompson cutter (the one = designed by the husband for his wife who suffered from arthritis). She = let me try cutting a few pieces and it was like opening the door to a = whole new world. this is just my humble opinion and experience, now a grinder is way off = in my future if ever. Jess ------=_NextPart_000_00EE_01BE59A0.4AB703A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all
This is really glassyjess (back from = the barely=20 breathing again ;))
I just bought a Thompson cutter and = have been in=20 heaven, this cutter has made the biggest difference of all tools bought=20 to-date
I can cut even the smallest most = intricate=20 pieces now and haven't had to grind hardly any since buying this perfect = cutter.
 
I had a stroke in April leaving my = right side=20 diminished and thought I wasn't going to ever be able to get the hang of = scoring.  My husband was ready to buy me the score one (the little = sewing=20 machine looking cutter) but on our way home from shands hospital we = stopped in=20 at North Florida Stained Glass and the owner showed us the Thompson = cutter (the=20 one designed by the husband for his wife who suffered from arthritis). = She let=20 me try cutting a few pieces and it was like opening the door to a whole = new=20 world.
 
this is just my humble opinion and = experience,=20 now a grinder is way off in my future if ever.
Jess
------=_NextPart_000_00EE_01BE59A0.4AB703A0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 12:58:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:34:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netusa1.net!t6686 From: L Nelson To: Linda Campbell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: business card holders Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:46:38 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.64638.0> References: <<1999Feb16.53933.0>> Precedence: bulk hI i WOULD ALL SO LIKE A COPY THANKS lAURA Linda Campbell wrote: > sorry folks to those of you I promised jpg files. I sent 7 from home this > weekend...I promise. Seems my server had trouble with the attachments. I > even tried to send the file to myself here at work but it didn't work. Will > put on a disk tonight and bring to work to e-mail tomorrow. I have a > partial list of ya'll who asked for copies. If your name does not appear > here and you would like to get a copy of the files, please send again. > sorry for the lateness and trouble. > > Glass Expressions > Dee Thompson > Lenore > Jerri > Linda Letscher > Kay Sodt > gjr@bungi.com > charles_spitzer@stratus.com > MISGLAS@aol.com > glasscat@infinet.com > PDRUSS@aol.com > glassx@bardstown.com > seaspray@mail.island.net > fullspec@sunset.net > > Linda > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 13:21:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:23:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Dear Albert and bungian historians Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:27:53 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.42753.0> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk I must confess, the only history, I know about Stained Glass is from bungi posts. But I have a question: Tiffanity developed foil work, right? They cut the copper sheets themselves, right? Did it have adhesive on it, or did they simple wrap it and it stayed in place like aluminum wrap does? And did they have different thickness??? It couldn't have been as nice as venture tape is! They must have had people who cut glass and people who foiled glass.? Hope you don't mind, it is just easier to ask you, than go down to the library and look it up. Thanks in advance Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 13:43:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:37:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw From: "Granny And PawPaw" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Tinning edges of foiled pieces? Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:30:13 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.103013.0> Precedence: bulk Another time to pretin is when you seal dried flowers between 2 pcs of glass for night lights or kaleidoscopes, or something. I pretin and clean the glass, set in the flowers and solder without flux. It works and you don't have to worry about getting dirt, melted flux or water sealed inside. Arnold -----Original Message----- From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 2:47 PM Subject: Re: Tinning edges of foiled pieces? > >In a message dated 2/15/99 8:16:43 PM, steve@villagesoftsmith.com wrote: > >>One of the beading methods the Rich/Mitchell/Ward book recommends is to tin >>the *edges* of all foiled pieces with 50/50 before layout, then flat solder >>(50/50), then bead (60/40). > >Now *that's* something that's always seemed to me like a far bigger waste of >time than grinding will ever be! > >The only time I tin anything before assembly is when the edge of the work has >such a deep "V" where 2 pieces come together (f'rinstance, I have an angel >pattern that has one where the wing joins the body) that I wouldn't be able to >get the tip of the iron in there. > > > ---------Sparks >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 13:56:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:01:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Witchdoc3@aol.com Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:05:27 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.5527.0> References: <<1999Feb16.162837.0>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk > >Reminds me, we haven't seen a bio from you! > > That's 'cause I'm still trying to get a life :-) > > Sparks Oh goody, then that means we get two from you. One before and one after!!!!!! Looking forward to reading both of em. Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 14:02:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:41:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Another question Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:45:56 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.44556.0> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk I have been going through old Glass Pattern Quarterly trying to get motivated and I came across this pattern. It is a cherub looking angel. Chin on arms with wings behind only. The magazine has this pattern in the fold out. It is to be made into a 22 inch square frame. The enlarged pattern has large black areas between the wing pieces up by the face. My question is: does this represent pure solder? And if so, what does this do to the strength of the over all project? It is the Fall 1998 issue. Thanks in advance, Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 14:13:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:57:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: twinjeeps Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:00:29 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.9029.0> References: <<1999Feb16.53419.0>> Precedence: bulk Jess. That is really wonderful! I am so happy for you that you can continue to work with glass. Best wishes for a continued recovery, and more and more strength! ;o) Tulsa Suzanne This is really glassyjess (back from the barely breathing again ;)) I just bought a Thompson cutter and have been in heaven, this cutter has = made the biggest difference of all tools bought to-date I can cut even the smallest most intricate pieces now and haven't had to = grind hardly any since buying this perfect cutter. I had a stroke in April leaving my right side diminished and thought I = wasn't going to ever be able to get the hang of scoring. My husband was = ready to buy me the score one (the little sewing machine looking cutter) = but on our way home from shands hospital we stopped in at North Florida = Stained Glass and the owner showed us the Thompson cutter (the one = designed by the husband for his wife who suffered from arthritis). She = let me try cutting a few pieces and it was like opening the door to a = whole new world. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 14:58:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:07:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:07:33 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.12733.0> References: <<1999Feb16.81229.0>> Precedence: bulk Dani Greer wrote: > > We try to stay away from air conditioners, too. Darned = > > unhealthy things as far as I'm concerned. Don't have 'em > in the autos either. Same category as the grinders.... > > Best, > > Dani Greer > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ok air conditioner - bad example. how about a microwave, a computer, or the internet. people who don't have them, don't need them. if they get one they'll never know what they did with out one. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 15:18:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:43:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: cutting and grinding Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:42:56 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.114256.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks, Karen, for those nice words. My guess is that you'll turn into a world-class glass artist because you already demonstrate a sensitivity to the medium and to good design. Michael always = says that serious hobbyists ought to be doing the very best work of anyone. Why? Because they have the luxury of time working in their favor. You can spend all the time you need reaching perfection. When you do it for a living, you always have a client that wanted their commission two weeks ago! ;-) And at least a dozen past-due jobs waiting in the wings... and usually working on three different things at the same time.... it's like a revolving door! We get good because it's not just practice, practice, practice -- it's practicepracticepracticepracticepracticepractice..... well, you get the idea. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 15:22:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:43:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Advice on first tools Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:43:02 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.11432.0> Precedence: bulk And I ditto Brian's last words! Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 15:46:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:44:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Tinning edges of foiled pieces? Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:42:49 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.114249.0> Precedence: bulk Gary Dodge, you are a very smart man. Alot of folks would be wise to pay attention to what you have to say. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 15:47:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:44:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: cutting and grinding Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:43:05 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.11435.0> Precedence: bulk Linda Jo, five years from now when your neighbor's work = exhibits tons of stress fractures from all those fancy cuts her saw made for her.... you'll have the knowledge, experience, and ability to explain to her what the problem is.... and then you can show her how to do a repair, too. ;-) And how to create a good design that doesn't require all those crazy cuts to be successful. Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 16:04:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:11:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Shirley Balloch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Another question Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:12:06 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.12126.0> References: <<1999Feb16.44556.0>> Precedence: bulk Shirley Balloch wrote: > > I have been going through old Glass Pattern Quarterly trying to get > motivated and I came across this pattern. > It is a cherub looking angel. Chin on arms with wings behind only. > The magazine has this pattern in the fold out. It is to be made into a > 22 inch square frame. > > The enlarged pattern has large black areas between the wing pieces up by > the face. My question is: does this represent pure solder? And if so, > what does this do to the strength of the over all project? > It is the Fall 1998 issue. > Thanks in advance, > Shirley > B > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it would probably use up solder and make everything a bit heavier. the solder itself should be pretty strong. if it's a wide area, wrap a small piece of glass in foil (and cover the glass itself). then solder over that. this way you'll have less waste and less of a chance of heat cracking something. not to mention preventing a small fire on your bench. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 16:21:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:45:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Vincent LaGreca" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Dale Tiffany? Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:43:19 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.114319.0> Precedence: bulk Don't know if this is fact or not... but, it seems to me he's in Washington state and claims to be related to LCT... that's coming out of the deep dark recesses of my memory.... I = think he might have a web site.... = best, Dani ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 16:26:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:15:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Shirley Balloch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Dear Albert and bungian historians Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:18:53 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.101853.0> References: <<1999Feb16.42753.0>> Precedence: bulk Shirley... I did a search on Yahoo of "Louis Comfort Tiffany" Came up with 94 websites... Interesting. Wish I had the time to read everything I would like to. I hadnt heard or read this before... "Louis Tiffany began producing lamps after Thomas Edison suggested the idea during their collaboration on the lighting of the first movie theater, the Lyceum." I read this on http://www.artisticglassusa.com/tiffhistory.html Of course anyone can make a webpage and say anything they want... (I dont know who authored this website or how dependable the information is) T Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 16:31:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:18:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Shirley Balloch , glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Dear Albert and bungian historians Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:22:31 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.102231.0> References: <<36C9EECD.2FAE@ix.netcom.com>> Precedence: bulk I would say the information on this site should be pretty reliable! ;o) http://www.tiffany.com/intro/lctbio.htm ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 16:38:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:27:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: iconn.net!tbyrnes From: Tim Byrnes To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Unsubscribe Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:21:13 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.122113.0> Organization: QM Stained Glass Precedence: bulk Hi, Please remove me from the list til my computer gets up-dated. Thank you, Tim Byrnes tbyrnes@iconn.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 16:52:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:46:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: support group for grinder users Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:45:11 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.124511.0> Precedence: bulk We'll be meeting every third Thursday in the basement of city hall. See you there! Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 16:54:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:30:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: RAGS Site Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:33:08 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.7338.0> Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk Hi All, I've been asked to announce the official opening of the Retailers of Art Glass and Supplies web site to you all today. The group better known as RAGS is up and running with a nice site. You can ask the pro's questions, get safety tips and more. Pretty cool! http://www.stainedglassretailers.com/ See ya Pam -- ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists Moswood Mountain Limited http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 17:06:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:45:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Luanne6556 From: Luanne6556@aol.com To: lcbell@memach.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Business Card Holders Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:32:17 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb16.233217.0> Precedence: bulk Linda, I would love a copy of the business card holders. LUANNE ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 17:21:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:45:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: Mosfunland@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: restoration vs refabrication Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:35:00 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb16.23350.0> Precedence: bulk I had a ponderous moment as I browsed through that website that was discussed a week ago. The woman had alot of work displayed, somewhat a bit high in price.... Anyway, further on in her sight she mentioned that she did a restoration of a church window, but used foil instead of lead when she reconstructed it.....for added strength (not wishing to start any debate in THAT direction) Is this truly considered restoration? I am just a basement breaker, the only things I have restored are the projects I have managed to break...(big grin). But in the truest sense of the word, I felt that she misrepresented her work. Any other thoughts? Maureen mosfunland@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 17:43:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:02:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: Witchdoc3@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Work and learning styles Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:58:06 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.13586.0> Precedence: bulk Unfortunately there is only so much that one can convey in a response, then to make matters worse a bit of creative snipping can change the meaning. The fact is that from nearly 20 years of teaching glass and almost 30 years working with it, I have observed the most common problems that beginners face and am constantly adjusting my methods to address those problems. Furthermore the implication that I am inflexible is the furthest thing from the truth. By the time my class is done we've got people both pulling and pushing their glass cutters. Breaking by hand and with runners (but never tapping....ok, maybe a little inflexible ;-) Using whatever technique will work for the individual. But still and all there is one way that I feel is best for the most people and it is my obligation to encourage them to give it a fair try first. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:28:40 EST Witchdoc3@aol.com writes: > >In a message dated 2/15/99 10:19:39 PM, dodgestudio@juno.com wrote: > >>Glass is different in that you can't UNscore or UNcut it. > >You can't "uncut" fabric either. A slip of the scissors can ruin >things just >as quickly as a slip of the cutter wheel. > >>You can't just >>rip a couple of stiches if your maching goes off course. > >In the course of my learning, I've done proportionally just about as >much >unsoldering and resoldering as seam-ripping when things didn't fit >properly. >Blecchhhhh. > >>I really want my students to cut something fairly crude at first. > >That makes a big difference. I didn't have the "luxury" (?) of >starting out on >something crude. I had to start off producing "the good stuff." > >>there >>is a huge psychological obstacle that creates a fear that just won't >>allow someone to cut as small as they must initially once they have >>experienced the grind large and cut to fit technique. > >That's true for some people, not for others. > >And that's the thing that really bugs me about this whole biz: the >assumptions >(often unconscious or unacknowledged) that everyone's brain is wired >the same >and will have the same "psycholigical obstacles," that everyone's body >is >wired the same (low rumble of lefties and "ambies" getting riled all >over the >place), that there's only one "right" way to teach (a misconception >that >plagues the educational field in general), only one "right" way to >learn >(ditto), only one "really professional" way to do things (which all >too often >translates in practice to "whatever I personally am bugged by is by >definition >unprofessional" - an atitude that afflicts not only "bosses" but all >of us to >some degree), etc. > >Some folks say that sort of thing is "just human nature," but meeting >up with >and getting burned by tacit assumptions like that is perhaps the >biggest >psychological obstacle of all. Fortunately, it's also human nature to >be able >to overcome those assumptions and keep them from turning into >prejudices, and >to learn to communicate in such a way that they don't imply any (real >or >imaginary) prejudices. > >I quit for now...... > > :-) > > > > --------Sparks >---- > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 17:54:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:20:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Tinning edges of foiled pieces? Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:24:57 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.82457.0> References: <<1999Feb16.114249.0>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk Ok, settle this controversy. I make a small heart. It is made of five pieces. The center is open. The center top of the heart has cloth ribbon in a bow and dangling down from the bow (suspended by twoglued ribbon behind the bow)two glass hearts. I don't tin the outside. I like just the foil plain. Now I sell these for $12.95. Meaning I can't afford the extra work. And I will admit, that the foil get ripped in the course of going to many shows. But for someone who buys one and puts it on wall or in window, that is not a real problem. So how do you feel about that. Do you consider this unfinished work? Thanks in advance. Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 17:56:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:28:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep From: "Brian Shepherd" To: "bungi" Subject: How did he do it? Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:18:23 -0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.01823.0> Precedence: bulk Hello I was trying to remember where I had read that it was not decided if LCT had invented the copper foil method. In moments of deep uncertainty I get my books out and have a browse. I am very fortunate to have a copy of Neustad (bought in much more pecunious days!) and looking at page 14 I noticed that the glass was 'higher' than the solder - there was no bead - in fact it was quite the reverse! The edge of the glass could be quite easily seen. This was inside the shade admittedly but how did the foiling work if it didn't wrap around the edge? I concluded in the end that the glass must have been grozed to an angle so that the foil did in fact wrap but didn't overlap the face of the glass. As even without grinders (BG) the edges must have been perpendicular most of the time so does this would mean that the glass would have to always be grozed to give the 'nose' for the foil to wrap around? It would also appear that the copper must have been trimmed to fit neatly along the edge after foiling! Given the reservoir of information on the bungi can anybody tell me if that is correct. If it is then our modern methods are really quite different and in more ways than just glued foil! Maybe I've got that all wrong - somebody tell me - I won't argue! I didn't find the quote about who invented foiling either! Best regards BtB ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 18:10:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:49:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: "Dani Greer" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Dale Tiffany? Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:49:42 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.84942.0> Precedence: bulk to put it delicately...........BULLSHIT! He is of oriental descent....... Many years ago I had some communication with the company. At that point is was in Moonachie, NJ. Also, if their work looks good, take a look at mine! check out the archives for some earlier post directed toward this subject! enjoy, H ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 18:26:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:16:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Tim Byrnes" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Unsubscribe Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:12:23 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.91223.0> Precedence: bulk >>Hi, Please remove me from the list til my computer gets up-dated. Thank you, Tim Byrnes tbyrnes@iconn.net << Hey Tim, Follow the dirrections at the bottom of your post to bungi and you will be able to get off the list. Otherwise you will stay on this ride until it ends. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass, have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 18:33:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:59:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon From: BMarhon@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: support group for grinder users Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:56:49 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb17.05649.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Dorothy - I'll be there, BUT you better go for someplace larger - we just built a new stadium here (National Car Rental Stadium) that I think is available for a small fee. Brenda << We'll be meeting every third Thursday in the basement of city hall. See you there! Dorothy >> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 18:41:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:00:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: bshep@dircon.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: cutting vs. grinding Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:28:11 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.142811.0> Precedence: bulk Brian, I think the reference is to the Thomas grip cutter. (Someone said it had a saddle on top.) It is my favorite because years of using the old fashioned type of cutter has destroyed my wrist and it is the only comfortable cutter now. It is great for beginners too because you can apply even pressure without any kind of strain and the shortness brings your hand right down close to the glass for better control. If you want to see a photo of one I have it up on my site at www.dodgestudio.com/featured.htm Gary Dodge On Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:16:31 -0000 "Brian Shepherd" writes: >Hello > >What's this about a tiny cutter? Have I missed a posting? > >I've got one made by called a Silberschnitt 424.0 that I have yet to >try >out. It's a very small tungsten carbide wheel at the end of an >adjustable >arm fitted into a palm held handle. Is that the same thing? If so I'd >love >to know how you get on with it Paula. > >It's supposed to be good for cutting small pieces of glass?? > >I haven't had a chance to try it yet! (too busy grinding!) > >BtB > >>Paula, >>I am very curious about your tiny cutter. Is there some way you >could find >>out the name and/or manufacturer of it? Is it really old? >>Lenore >>---- > > > > > > > > > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 18:51:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:01:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: balloch@netbridge.net Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Dear Albert and bungian historians Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:22:51 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.142251.0> Precedence: bulk Shirley, I still have to this day a roll of foil on a wooden spool, about 6" or 8" wide and kind of on the thick side, with no adhesive on it that came from the old man who was my first employer in stained glass. He used to mix up adhesive of his own with bees wax that he painted onto the back of it when he needed it for something special. This home made adhesive in no way compares with the stuff on the foil today. ( The copper foil we use today was already in existence, except that the glue was not nearly as good as it is today either.) And yes that was the way Tiffany worked when he developed his new technique. It is alos worthy of note that his large windows were done primarily in lead came with the foil as mainly a technique for making lamps. It is my understanding that the operation was set up as a common manufacturing plant with assigned jobs. That is just the way I worked for this man. For about six months I was a crown assembler, just putting the crowns for the tops of lamps together 8 hours a day. After that I was a copper foiler and months later I achieved the honorable position of tracing the patterns onto the glass for the boss to cut! Hooo boy! Gary Dodge On Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:27:53 -0800 Shirley Balloch writes: >I must confess, the only history, I know about Stained Glass is from >bungi posts. >But I have a question: >Tiffanity developed foil work, right? They cut the copper sheets >themselves, right? >Did it have adhesive on it, or did they simple wrap it and it stayed >in >place like aluminum wrap does? And did they have different >thickness??? >It couldn't have been as nice as venture tape is! >They must have had people who cut glass and people who foiled glass.? >Hope you don't mind, it is just easier to ask you, than go down to >the >library and look it up. >Thanks in advance >Shirley B >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 18:54:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:53:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: restoration vs refabrication Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:59:28 +0000 Message-ID: <199902170152.UAA00829@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Anyway, further on in her sight she mentioned that she did a restoration of a > church window, but used foil instead of lead when she reconstructed it.....for > added strength (not wishing to start any debate in THAT direction) Is this > truly considered restoration? Nope. Restoration is to restore to the window's original condition as intended by the artist (the original artist) insofar as possible. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 19:18:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:59:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Work and learning styles Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:56:33 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb17.15633.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/16/99 6:59:59 PM, dodgestudio@juno.com wrote: >Unfortunately there is only so much that one can convey in a response, >then to make matters worse a bit of creative snipping can change the >meaning. [...] Creative snipping? I was just doing what I always do, following the rules of "Netiquette" and not quoting the other guy's message lock, stock, and barrel. As for the rest of it, well............ Let's all chalk it up to "We all speak English, but we don't speak the same language" and go back to bustin' on Dale Tiffany (whose name did get taken in vain on bungi a while back) or some other "safe" target. Now where did I put that fire extinguisher? -------Sparks, with apologies if I struck a few too many ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 19:23:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:30:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: "Brian Shepherd" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: How did he do it? Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:30:19 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.103019.0> Precedence: bulk it is called laminating........MANY of his windows had mutli-layered glass to get the effect he wanted (or the artist) some of the windows are reported to have as many as 7 layers of glass. I messed around with laminating the backs of some of the jewels I have used in some of the dragonflies. Certainly the foil was cut to width from sheets of copper to fit the glass......they did not have machine rolled and relatively accurate pre-cut foil. Many of the early lamps had glass that was very muddy and quite translucent as it was lit by a flame....Early bulbs were very dim and dense opalescent glass would not transmit much of the DIM light. Layers of glass produced effects that were not able to be obtained by a single thickness or color. I have had my hands on some ORIGINAL shades and I MARVELED at the invention and originality of them...but I LIKE the quality of MINE!!! (YES I grind to a light tight fit wherever it possible and use 3/16" foil on glass that is thinner than Spectrum ) As for the strength of MY shades, over the past 18 years I have had some damaged and even a few moderately CRUSHED or HOLED and the FOIL and SOLDER still held and the non-crushed areas were still true to the original shape. As I peeled off the foil on the broken pieces the foil on the "good" pieces was adhered quite well! All of these were FULL FORM ODYSSEY. The worden sectional ones are a bit trickier to assemble, and IMHO seem a bit at risk at the seams if you do not take extreme care to get them to align (grids).... later, H ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 19:36:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:05:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: Family Account Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: support group for grinder users Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:49:53 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.124953.0> References: <<1999Feb16.124511.0@[207.126.97.2]>> Organization: SBWSA Precedence: bulk Is this the 12 step program? Are we to give them up cold turkey? Inquiring minds want to know. Carol T Family Account wrote: > We'll be meeting every third Thursday in the basement of city hall. See > you there! > > Dorothy > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 19:51:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:11:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: balloch@netbridge.net Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Dear Albert and bungian historians Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:07:14 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.16714.0> Precedence: bulk On Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:44:45 -0800 Shirley Balloch writes: >OK, next question. Did they always use the adhesive? >It boggles my mind. I can't even imagine cutting copper foil to the >size we use. It has got to be worse than peeling an apple! >Thanks for your quick reply. >Shirley B > As far as I know they always used the adhesive although any trace of it has long since disappeared in the original tiffany lamps. Now all that holds them together is the metal work. (If you tap one on the side you can now hear the glass rattle.) Good thing they didn't depend on the glue to hold it together like some people today do! Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 19:59:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:17:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: Mosfunland@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: restoration vs refabrication Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:10:32 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.161032.0> Precedence: bulk Maureen, You are correct. That is called adulteration, not restoration. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:35:00 EST Mosfunland@aol.com writes: >I had a ponderous moment as I browsed through that website that was >discussed >a week ago. The woman had alot of work displayed, somewhat a bit high >in >price.... > >Anyway, further on in her sight she mentioned that she did a >restoration of a >church window, but used foil instead of lead when she reconstructed >it.....for >added strength (not wishing to start any debate in THAT direction) Is >this >truly considered restoration? I am just a basement breaker, the only >things I >have restored are the projects I have managed to break...(big grin). >But in >the truest sense of the word, I felt that she misrepresented her work. > Any >other thoughts? > >Maureen >mosfunland@aol.com > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 20:23:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:25:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Dear Albert and bungian historians Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:17:15 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.171715.0> Precedence: bulk Gary- Have you ever sent us your bio? Sounds like it would be very = interesting! Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 20:40:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:27:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: banet.net!gmanning From: Goldpaws To: Family Account Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: support group for grinder users Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:26:59 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.172659.0> References: <<1999Feb16.124511.0>> Precedence: bulk Just checking to make sure that "City Hall" has electricity and air conditioning. If so please sign me up!! Goldpaws Family Account wrote: > > We'll be meeting every third Thursday in the basement of city hall. See > you there! > > Dorothy > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 20:51:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:30:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: sprintmail.com!MollysGlass From: "Molly Keys" To: "Vincent LaGreca" , "Everyone" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Dale Tiffany? Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:28:32 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.152832.0> Precedence: bulk Dale Tiffany has a retail store in Long Beach, CA. I visited it in October and there are some beautiful lamps there. Mind you the first time we drove by there was a going out of business sign and great sales advertised and then when I finally got back to investigate the sale was over and it was business as usual. Molly -----Original Message----- From: Vincent LaGreca To: Everyone Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 2:47 PM Subject: Dale Tiffany? >I walked through J.C. Penny's lamp department recently and saw 16" dragonfly >lamps made by Dale Tiffany on sale for $225.00. Whatever the merits of >where and who the labor force was, the lamps were well made with extremely >consistent solder lines. The solder lines looked as if they could of been >done with robotics. Does this technology exist? If so where? > >Does anyone know where Dale Tiffany is from and where these lamps are made? >Tiffany & Company has their corporate headquarters about five miles from my >home. I don't think they are a part of him else the price would be more >like $22,225. > >TIA > >Ciao > >Vic > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 20:57:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:44:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RAGS Site Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:16:52 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.171652.0> Precedence: bulk I thought RAGS had been around for about a year... I know a couple of retailers who tried it and came back to bungi. It's because we're such a= smart bunch... and polite, too, by most list standards! ;-) Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 21:05:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:22:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!CWWSLW From: CWWSLW@aol.com To: weaver51@teleport.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Dale Tiffany? Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:12:59 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb17.31259.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/16/99 8:12:40 PM Central Standard Time, weaver51@teleport.com writes: << to put it delicately...........BULLSHIT! He is of oriental descent....... Many years ago I had some communication with the company. At that point is was in Moonachie, NJ. Also, if their work looks good, take a look at mine! check out the archives for some earlier post directed toward this subject! enjoy, H >> Dear "H"' I am currently looking at a catalog of Dale Tiffany's. I am personally quite impressed with his works. I guess that means I must be some sort of fly, as I am attracted to his "Bullshit." The catalog states that all products are assembled in the U.S.A to the "Highest standards." I am aware that standards are different to each artist, and I think it is not your station to pass judgment upon him. By the way.... I did not know that being of oriental descent was a degradation! Susan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 21:16:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:47:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: restoration vs refabrication Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:16:56 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.171656.0> Precedence: bulk I would consider that kind of a repair purely unethical! Yikes... it makes my skin crawl. I hate to even imagine what Julie Sloan or any other restoration expert would say about that kind of procedure. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 21:21:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:22:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: support group for grinder users Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:17:12 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.171712.0> Precedence: bulk Gee, what a shame... and here I thought I had all these potential = apprentices on bungi! Guess I'll have to import... Elisabeth, = you'll have to bring along one of your students. No grinders in the Greer Studios until you really learn to cut glass well! Period. End of discussion from my shop. Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 21:27:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:06:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: A solder/lead/grinding synopsis Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:52:49 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.175249.0> Precedence: bulk Howard mentioned something in his last post that explained something about his technique I've been wondering about since he re-joined bungi. Howard, you have often stated that grinding is essential to good foil adherence and subsequent structural integrity of your lamps, no? I, and numerous others, have long maintained that the foil is only a temporary measure employed strictly to give the solder a hold on the glass... its purpose after soldering is completely unimportant and useless. You mentioned in your last post that all your pieces fit together tightly (speaking of lamps, of course.) Well, all our pieces fit together so that the solders runs down between the glass and results in a "heart" much as lead is constructed. That is why we don't depend on the foil for strength.... the soldered "lead" we create takes care of strength, and the foil becomes superfluous. On the other hand, a good glue bind on your foil is essential to keep the lamp together. Wonder how many years that glue on the foil will last.... in our semi-arid Colorado climate, not very long. Just my thoughts, = once again. As an added thought, remember the point of using foil shears to cut out a kerf in your pattern is to allow for a bit of a gap between glass pieces as well as to accomodate the slight thickness of the foil on each edge of glass. Make sense? Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 21:27:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:10:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: How did he do it? Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:52:45 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.175245.0> Precedence: bulk Laminating?? You mean "plating", right? Laminating implies the use of glue, and, ugh, let's not even go in that direction... Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 22:03:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:57:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!MD6868 From: MD6868@aol.com To: alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: restoration vs refabrication Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:55:42 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb17.45542.0> Precedence: bulk Albert, This brings to mind a project I'm currently working on. A large Victorian panel well over 100 yrs old. Total came failure, about 5% of the glass had to be matched (in various spots throughout the piece) Otherwise all the rest of the original glass was thoroughly cleaned (100 yrs of paint and other mung), and a total re-leading is underway. Restoration, or Refabrication ? I lean toward Refabrication, but on the other hand, all work done was absolutely necessary to put the piece back, as closely as possible, as none of the old lead was reusable. What do you think? As always, I'll look forward to your usual learned response. Richard Glassics Artglass Valencia, Ca. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 22:13:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:02:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "Everyone" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Tinning edges of foiled pieces? Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:57:43 -0500 Message-ID: <199902170458.XAA11503@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 2/16/99 4:42 PM Dani Greer GreerStudios@compuserve.com >Gary Dodge, you are a very smart man. Alot of folks would >be wise to pay attention to what you have to say. > Yes, he is! I have had some invaluable advice from Gary. Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 23:00:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:52:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Lead Question Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:54:36 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.135436.0> Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk Hi all, I'm conveying a question from someone who has become quite persistent with me and I have no clue as to how to even answer her. Here is her question and if anyone can answer I would surely appreciate it. Question: Is there a 90 degree lead? I really prefer leading to foil and would like to do boxes with lead. Thanks, Pam -- ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists Moswood Mountain Limited http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 23:31:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:50:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.megsinet.net!pjnelson_glassdogstudio.com From: Paula Nelson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: subscribe Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:42:42 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.184242.0> Precedence: bulk Did the bungi snap, or did I fall off... it's been *real* quiet. Paula Nelson ICQ #1245141 http://www.glassdogstudio.com/uitland.htm The Glass Dog Studio (708) 715.GLAS (4527) http://www.glassdogstudio.com/TGDS.htm "It's not the cannon on the playground; it's that the children have found shells for them" ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 16 23:55:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:32:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: First tools Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:15:49 +0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.181549.0> Precedence: bulk The Delphi Stained Glass not only have a "Starter Kit" they also have 25% off on your first order. If you really select a complete set it works out to very good savings really. I tried it long ago and I know it. Shakeel Abedi shakeel@tm.net.my Shakeel Abedi Rainbow Stained Glass 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Malaysia Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489 Fax: +607-7733313 -----Original Message----- From: ATF Distribution Center-K. See To: Jennifer Frisbee ; bungi Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 12:21 AM Subject: Re: First tools >Hi Jennifer, >Try to take advantage of Delphi Stained Glass for your grinder purchase; they offer 25% off your first order. address: delphiglass.com >Welcome to bungi >K See > >Jennifer Frisbee wrote: > >> Thanks for the advice. I think you are right...I was getting a bit ahead of myself. I think I'm becoming a tool-junkie just like my husband! >> >> The reason I brought up the saw and grinder bit is due to the Powerkits system we had seen in the Inland catalog. Since both of us do a good deal of craft work (my husband builds puppets and marionettes), we thought that it might be a good investment. However, for my stained glass work right now I really don't need the saw at all. The grinder, however, really helped my last piece come together (a small kaleidoscope with a lot of little pieces)...so I may bite the bullet and invest in one soon. >> >> Well...thanks again....back to the practicing board! >> >> Jen Frisbee - newbie extraordinaire! >> >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 >> ---- >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 00:04:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:32:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: restoration vs refabrication Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:29:41 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.142941.0> Precedence: bulk >>Anyway, further on in her sight she mentioned that she did a restoration of a church window, but used foil instead of lead when she reconstructed it.....for added strength (not wishing to start any debate in THAT direction) Is this truly considered restoration? I am just a basement breaker, the only things I have restored are the projects I have managed to break...(big grin). But in the truest sense of the word, I felt that she misrepresented her work. Any other thoughts? Maureen << The window in question can be seen at http://www.stainedglassart.com. It is stated to be a 100 year old window, 30 " in diameter installed in a church in NJ. It obviously started out as a quality window and would seem to have stood the test of 100 years. Restoration price $4500.00. I will start with a flat statement, " Changing a window from leaded to foiled can in no way be considered restoration." The reason given for this change is that the "artist" felt that the window would be stronger for being foiled. Mr. Tiffany leaded his windows as did everyone else 100 years ago. Foil was for 3-D items such as lamps. I know of no major studios that would foil a church window then or now. The reason most often given for leading windows is that leaded method allows a window to expand and contract with changes in temperature. As far as strength goes, a window is as strong as the frame and the iron or steel rebar used to support it. As a general rule of thumb bebar is used every 18"s in at least one plane. Foiled windows seem to be an outgrowth of the craft movement in the US. Perhaps foiling major windows will catch on but I doubt it. The inflexable construction method would seem to insure self destruction in all but the most mild cliamets. Small foiled windows that are interior hangings are likely to find a continuing market. They are easy to produce and have design freedoms that are not readily adapted to classic leaded work. Let the debate begin, Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass, have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 03:35:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 02:45:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Lead Question Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:42:47 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.104247.0> Precedence: bulk At 21:54 16/02/99 -0800, Pamela wrote: >Hi all, > >I'm conveying a question from someone who has become quite persistent >with me and I have no clue as to how to even answer her. Here is her >question and if anyone can answer I would surely appreciate it. > >Question: >Is there a 90 degree lead? I really prefer leading to foil and would >like to do boxes with lead. > Yes - at least in UK there is. We dont sell much of it but do stock it. I imagine if your friend contacted her nearest supplier they could get it in for her. EliZabeth Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 04:05:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 03:20:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!SGriffiSBG From: SGriffiSBG@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: fume traps Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:19:58 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb17.111958.0> Precedence: bulk I am about to solder my first piece at home (slow progress due to the flu) and have a little area in the workshop. Will be taking a trip to WC at the end of the month and I am considering getting the Inland fume trap. Is that the only thing on the market? I have looked through several sites and see nothing else. But Sears has a hepa 99.9999% air purifyer. Are they the same function as the fume trap? if so which is better? And what else is available? And what about the pieces fitting too close? How close is too close. I use the foil shears (and a grinder :-) and my pieces look pretty close (tight) But what is considered Tight fitting pieces? Thanks guys.... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 05:08:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 04:03:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: RAGS Site Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:00:30 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.12030.0> Precedence: bulk At 22:16 16/02/99 -0500, Dani wrote: >I thought RAGS had been around for about a year... I know a couple of >retailers who tried it and came back to bungi. Yes, but is not just a maillist but an association of retail stained glass suppliers. I know many of its members are also on bungi (as I am) which caters for a different need in the stained glass world. I cant understand why on some of the bbs there is such antagonism towards RAGS - but not against IGGA or ASGLA or other such associations. Maybe it is a North American thing? EliZabeth Bournemouth Stained Glass http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 05:23:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 04:16:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Dear Albert and bungian historians Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:21:20 +0000 Message-ID: <199902171214.HAA07591@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > As far as I know they always used the adhesive although any trace of it > has long since disappeared in the original tiffany lamps. Thin copper sheet was cut into strips (some people do this even now) and those were coated with beeswax, which acted as the adhesive. Obviously, during soldering the beeswax would burn away and the solder (as has been noted here) became the supporting structure. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 05:38:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 04:16:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: restoration vs refabrication Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:21:20 +0000 Message-ID: <199902171214.HAA07066@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > I will start with a flat statement, " Changing a window from leaded to > foiled can in no way be considered restoration." The reason given for this > change is that the "artist" felt that the window would be stronger for being > foiled. You're absolutely right, Bob. Restoration is "to restore," not to change. Then there are the glass painters who "improve" the faces they've been asked to restore, which is completely and absolutely wrong. > Mr. Tiffany leaded his windows as did everyone else 100 years ago. On the other hand, I don't think that's correct at all. There are thousands upon thousands of windows in place in this country that were created and installed 100 or more years ago. All were leaded. Tiffany Studios (not L.C. himself ... he merely owned the company) for the most part leaded their windows, too. Some windows incorporated both lead and copper foil, it's true, but it's incorrect to say that Tiffany Studios used only copper foil. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 05:39:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 04:16:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Dale Tiffany? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:21:19 +0000 Message-ID: <199902171214.HAA06383@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > The catalog states that all products are > assembled in the U.S.A to the "Highest standards." I am aware that standards > are different to each artist, and I think it is not your station to pass > judgment upon him. "Assembled" being the operative word. U.S. customs rules allow shades (for example) to be manufactured outside the U.S. and imported entire. Same for the bases. Take a shade out of the crate and put it on the base, spin the finial onto the top to hold the shade on the base and you've not only "assembled" the lamp, but you're then allowed to apply a "Made in U.S.A." sticker. Neat, huh? >> He is of oriental descent....... > I did not know that being of oriental descent was a degradation! Susan, I don't think Howard was being degrading in his comment. He merely observed that the owner of Dale Tiffany is of oriental descent and (in the context of the conversation about the company) that the owner couldn't (or most likely isn't) related in any way to Louis C. Tiffany. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 05:49:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 04:16:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: restoration vs refabrication Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:21:19 +0000 Message-ID: <199902171214.HAA07279@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > This brings to mind a project I'm currently working on. A large Victorian > panel well over 100 yrs old. Total came failure, about 5% of the glass had to > be matched (in various spots throughout the piece) Otherwise all the rest of > the original glass was thoroughly cleaned (100 yrs of paint and other mung), > and a total re-leading is underway. Restoration, or Refabrication ? Restoration, if care is being taken to preserve every bit of original glass, none of the glass is being grozed to make it "fit" into the new cames, any glass being replaced is being carefully stored away just in case something can be done with it by future restorers, no original paint is being removed as a result of the cleaning. The lead cames have a limited lifespan, depending on how and when they were manufactured. Some cames hundreds of years old are fine even today, most are not. Some cames less than a hundred years old are in terrible shape. Each window is unique, so thoughtful judgment has to be taken on each aspect of its restoration. First do no harm. Then don't second-guess the artist's original intent or (god forbid) change the window to suit your personal vision of what the window "should have been." It's amazing sometimes what some people will do and call it "restoration." Sounds to me like you have the right idea, as well as respect for the window and its creators while you preserve it for future generations. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 05:51:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 04:17:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Dale Tiffany? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:21:19 +0000 Message-ID: <199902171214.HAA07546@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > to put it delicately...........BULLSHIT! > He is of oriental descent....... Yep. Korean if I remember correctly. Also important to know is that L.C. Tiffany left nobody behind to perpetuate his name. He had three daughters, whose married names are obviously not Tiffany. He had a brother, who left no offspring either, since he was barking mad and had other things on his mind, so to speak. "Dale Tiffany" is a company name. The company imports decorative lamps manufactured in Asia. My take on its quality? Junk. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 06:10:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 04:17:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: How did he do it? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:21:19 +0000 Message-ID: <199902171214.HAA06885@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > I was trying to remember where I had read that it was not decided if LCT > had invented the copper foil method. It was patented by Simon Bray, 1886. Tiffany (to repeat myself) was a businessman. Trained as an artist, sure, but he built (so far as is known) only one stained glass window (a bad design, in my opinion), an autonomous panel that was eventually installed in his house on Long Island. Everything else ... windows, lamps, desk items, lighting fixtures, the works ... was designed and built by his employees. He ran the company and was its salesman. His clientele was made up of the wealthy classes who hired him to decorate their homes. To refer to a lamp or window as "a Tiffany" and think that L.C. had anything to do with it as far as design or fabrication is an error, no matter what you might read in some books. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 06:11:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 04:17:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Tinning edges of foiled pieces? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:21:19 +0000 Message-ID: <199902171214.HAA07521@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > I don't tin the outside. I like just the foil plain. > So how do you feel about that. Do you consider this unfinished work? But you tin the inside? Is the foil unsoldered everywhere? If unsoldered and untinned, I would certainly consider it unfinished. Not only that, it'll fall apart when the adhesive expires, since its usefulness is intended to be temporary. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 06:16:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 04:27:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Dale Tiffany? Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:28:49 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.22849.0> Precedence: bulk Leave it to Howard to put the proper slant on things. I have seen several lines of glass with one Tiffany name or another on them. Seems several places use the name to sell otherwise mundane work at a higher price. Just my 2 cents of course. Linda to put it delicately...........BULLSHIT! He is of oriental descent....... Many years ago I had some communication with the company. At that point is was in Moonachie, NJ. Also, if their work looks good, take a look at mine! check out the archives for some earlier post directed toward this subject! enjoy, H ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 06:30:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 04:59:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw From: "Granny And PawPaw" To: "bungi" , "Shirley Balloch" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Tinning edges of foiled pieces? Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:45:29 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.24529.0> Precedence: bulk Shirley, I believe that a piece is finished when you stop working on it. Arnold -----Original Message----- From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 9:03 PM Subject: Re: Tinning edges of foiled pieces? >Ok, settle this controversy. >I make a small heart. It is made of five pieces. The center is open. >The center top of the heart has cloth ribbon in a bow and dangling down >from the bow (suspended by twoglued ribbon behind the bow)two glass >hearts. >I don't tin the outside. I like just the foil plain. Now I sell these >for $12.95. Meaning I can't afford the extra work. >And I will admit, that the foil get ripped in the course of going to >many shows. >But for someone who buys one and puts it on wall or in window, that is >not a real problem. >So how do you feel about that. Do you consider this unfinished work? >Thanks in advance. >Shirley B >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 06:32:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 05:05:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Lead Question Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:54:18 +0000 Message-ID: <199902171305.NAA05231@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hi Pam et al, I t h i n k I know what you mean and if I think I know, then the answer is, yes there is. Normally used for lanterns . Have a couple of lengths of it myself. But as far as I know, it's obtainable in any size your heart desires, as long as it is in 1/4 inch face width. >From whence in USA I do not know (our friends at WC ?) Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Pam B-T wrote: I'm conveying a question from someone who has become quite persistent with me and I have no clue as to how to even answer her. Here is her question and if anyone can answer I would surely appreciate it. Question: Is there a 90 degree lead? I really prefer leading to foil and would like to do boxes with lead. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 06:41:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 05:07:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: restoration vs refabrication Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:54:18 +0000 Message-ID: <199902171305.NAA05226@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Dear All, It doesn't surprise me that the lead was re-unusable! I wouldn't expect it to be after 100 years+. The glass it self may last forever, but lead certainly does not. As part of the restoration task I consider to be re-leading with fresh lead. In any case, you will find it almost impossible to re-solder on such old lead, the solder just refuses to "key in" over the joints. Also you will find that it tends to crumble and disintegrate. Another aspect is that the cement has deterioated and will need replacing also. It's not uncommon for a leaded panel to be totally stripped down cleaned and re-leaded after 100 - 150 years. Is it THIS which you call "refabrication"?? If it is, make sure you trace out the design to scale on paper, before you disturb the glass; also that you carefully number the pieces (and their equivalent spaces on your drawing). Restoration work is a slow and painstaking task and I am not quite sure how experienced you are. You might possibly do well reading up about restoration work, before you tackle the task (no insult intended). Julie Sloan's book - of which Albert will be able to give you details - is an admirable tome. "Refabrication" work to me is, when someone hands me a collection of plastic bags full of bits and tell me to do something with from what I can glean of the sorry mess inside (not dissimilar from what Glenna has just completed). Good Luck! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Richard wrote: This brings to mind a project I'm currently working on. A large Victorian panel well over 100 yrs old. Total came failure, about 5% of the glass had to be matched (in various spots throughout the piece) Otherwise all the rest of the original glass was thoroughly cleaned (100 yrs of paint and other mung), and a total re-leading is underway. Restoration, or Refabrication ? I lean toward Refabrication, but on the other hand, all work done was absolutely necessary to put the piece back, as closely as possible, as none of the old lead was reusable. What do you think? As always, I'll look forward to your usual learned response. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 06:45:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 05:07:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: support group for grinder users Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:54:18 +0000 Message-ID: <199902171305.NAA05219@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Of Cours Ma'm! Yes, Ma'm! Certainly Ma'm! At Once, Ma'm! I promise I will learn, Ma'm! E 'n T in UK Also sprach Dani: Gee, what a shame... and here I thought I had all these potential = apprentices on bungi! Guess I'll have to import... Elisabeth, = you'll have to bring along one of your students. No grinders in the Greer Studios until you really learn to cut glass well! Period. End of discussion from my shop. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 06:58:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 05:14:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: "Happy.exe" Trojan Horse Virus NG Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:15:21 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.31521.0> Precedence: bulk Two of the bungi members have unknowingly sent me the Happy.exe virus again. Happily, I knew not to execute it so I'm not infecting anyone. Ghads, I felt like I had vd the last time. Yuck. Whoever sent me the web page for getting rid of the virus, please post it again. I have lost it and our computer weenies don't think we are bright enough to handle such technical jargon, so their advice is to call them for help. Newbies, do not open the file "happy.exe" Linda Campbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 07:15:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 05:53:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: RAGS Site Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:57:12 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.15712.0> References: <<1999Feb17.12030.0>> Precedence: bulk studio@stainedglass.co.uk wrote: > > At 22:16 16/02/99 -0500, Dani wrote: > >I thought RAGS had been around for about a year... I know a couple of > >retailers who tried it and came back to bungi. > > Yes, but is not just a maillist but an association of retail stained glass > suppliers. > I know many of its members are also on bungi (as I am) which caters for a > different need in the stained glass world. > I cant understand why on some of the bbs there is such antagonism towards > RAGS - but not against IGGA or ASGLA or other such associations. > Maybe it is a North American thing? > EliZabeth > Bournemouth Stained Glass > http://www.stainedglass.co.uk >From everything I have seen, RAGS is great! I wish all stained glass retailers adheared (oh darn wish I had spellcheck, Ed) to the standards by which RAGS sets an example. Not all retailers are all that friendly OR helpful. I would be happy to go into any RAGS store, assuming they are as advertised. Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 07:47:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:21:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: GreerStudios@compuserve.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: RAGS Site Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:13:29 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.41329.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Dani, No, we're still here and going strong. I come to Bungi to try and be helpful and have a little fun and I use RAGS to help me become a stronger retailer of glass and supplies, but there are small dues and if they're not a serious retailer or they truly believe that they already know EVERYTHING, I guess that could push them out. I've learned a lot about the retail end that would bore the pants off the Bungi crowd. Also gives me direct contact with important industry guests who visit RAGS from time to time. Our last guest was Don Able from Morton Glassworks. We've had reps from Spectrum, Ed Hoy's etc. Oh, and we've got one or two who left but couldn't stay away. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:16:52 -0500 Dani Greer writes: >I thought RAGS had been around for about a year... I know a couple of >retailers who tried it and came back to bungi. It's because we're >such a= > >smart bunch... and polite, too, by most list standards! ;-) > >Best, > >Dani Greer Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 07:53:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:21:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: ptap@pacifier.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Lead Question Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:18:26 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.41826.0> Precedence: bulk Pam , I've got about two or three strips of 90 deg lead that I got at bendheim about 15 years ago....now? Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:54:36 -0800 Pamela Burns-Tappan writes: >Hi all, > >I'm conveying a question from someone who has become quite persistent >with me and I have no clue as to how to even answer her. Here is her >question and if anyone can answer I would surely appreciate it. > >Question: >Is there a 90 degree lead? I really prefer leading to foil and would >like to do boxes with lead. > > > >Thanks, > >Pam > > > >-- >********************************* > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 08:08:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:23:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: CWWSLW@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Dale Tiffany? Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:16:57 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.41657.0> Precedence: bulk The catalog states that all products >are >assembled in the U.S.A to the "Highest standards." Hmmmm....interesting choice of words ASSEMBLED in the USA....Glass cut in Mexico ASSEMBLED IN USA? >I did not know that being of oriental descent was a degradation! Maybe not bad to be Oriental, but kinda unlikely to be Tiffanys son. > >Susan Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 08:13:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:31:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Luanne6556 From: Luanne6556@aol.com To: shad@mail2.nai.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: support group for grinder users Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:30:50 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb17.143050.0> Precedence: bulk My name is Luanne and I am a grindaholic. I'll see you at the meeting. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 08:30:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:36:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: RAGS Site Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:41:17 +0000 Message-ID: <199902171434.JAA07535@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > I cant understand why on some of the bbs there is such antagonism towards > RAGS - but not against IGGA or ASGLA or other such associations. Probably because some of the RAGS founders posted angry, defensive messages that implied (or even stated outright) that retailers are somehow "owed a living," that they shouldn't have to be competitive, that manufacturers and distributors should "protect" them by refusing to sell to the retailers' "hobbyist" customers. It's an old story in the recent renaissance of stained glass popularity that many (if not most) retailers were once hobbyists themselves who now want to "close the door" on anyone who comes after them, develops a sincere (even fervid) interest in the medium, and grows beyond "hobbyist" status. On the other hand, it's understandable if a retailer has actually made the investment in stocking glass, tools and other supplies (though many don't, saying instead, "I can order that for you!") that he or she would want to protect that investment and try to curtail others doing exactly what they themselves have done. There's nothing at all wrong about deciding to run a retail shop, teach lessons and sell supplies. What's odd is that some retailers think that they should be "protected" from others doing the same thing. If the manufacturers and distributors actually *did such a thing (and they don't, for the most part), it's arguable that certain anti-trust laws would kick in. After looking at the RAGS site, though, it appears that the organization means to promote its retailer members as caring, supply- and education-oriented partners with their customers, which is an excellent contribution to the glass world's growth and popularity. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 08:38:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:08:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: restoration vs refabrication Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:14:30 +0000 Message-ID: <199902171507.KAA09755@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Restoration work is a slow and painstaking task There's a very good description (for the client) of what comprises stained glass restoration, what's involved and so on, at http://cummingsstudio.com Click on "Planning a Conservation or Restoration Project?" Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 08:53:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:46:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RAGS site Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:43:46 -0500 Message-ID: <199902171444.JAA26953@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk Hi - I just went to the RAGS site and viewed work from some of our friends. Nice, all of it! Pam, did you do the website? Arnold, loved "Mary Ann & Me." What I need to know is, which one is Mary Ann and which one is you? :) I made that unicorn (big one) as my very first piece after classes and it has a special place in my heart. It proved to me that "I could do it." Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 08:53:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:47:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netaxs.com!maruca From: maruca@netaxs.com To: Brian Shepherd Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: How did he do it? Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:47:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1999Feb17.44725.0> References: <<1999Feb17.01823.0>> Precedence: bulk On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Brian Shepherd wrote: > (in re: Tiffany shades) > The edge of the glass could be quite easily seen. This > was inside the shade admittedly but how did the foiling work if it didn't > wrap around the edge? > > I concluded in the end that the glass must have been grozed to an angle so > that the foil did in fact wrap but didn't overlap the face of the glass. > > As even without grinders (BG) the edges must have been perpendicular most of > the time so does this would mean that the glass would have to always be > grozed to give the 'nose' for the foil to wrap around? > > It would also appear that the copper must have been trimmed to fit neatly > along the edge after foiling! Young Lenore (mingey@aol) and I managed to squeak into the huge Tiffany exhibition at NYC's Metropolitan Museum of Art on the very last day, thanks to a heads-up from bungi. One of the things I spent the most time scrutinizing was the partially finished lamp on a form. Whether this was preserved in that state by some forward thinking historian I can't say. After all, John Wanamaker (famed department store magnate)'s office was preserved exactly as he left it when he dropped dead, for well over 70 years! Let us presume though, that what I saw was a recreation, as accurate as surviving details would allow. The form was made of wood, a full shade, not pieces to be joined at the last minute. The copper sheets were much thicker than any foil I've ever seen. The foil indeed did not appear to wrap around the glass, it just stood inbetween. That's the mysterious part. How do you create H came if the the foil was more like a straight line between the pieces? I suspect there was another step not represented on the form, and I hope a Real Historian (TM) will jump up and carry on from here! All the best, Mary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 09:04:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:59:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: restoration vs refabrication Date: Wed Feb 17 06:59:29 1999 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.43729.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5A84.16048832 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" IMHO Restoration is the repair of an object to it's original state or as close as possible. Refabrication is the rebuilding of an object without regard to the original material. The best example of the difference came from a building contractor. In a 100 year old house the original walls are wood lathe and plaster. If a hole is patched with wood lathe and plaster the wall is restored; if it is fixed with a piece of sheet rock or wire lathe and plaster it is repaired; if the entire wall is ripped out and replaced with sheet rock it is refabricated. Vic M. Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com I would consider that kind of a repair purely unethical! Yikes... it makes my skin crawl. I hate to even imagine what Julie Sloan or any other restoration expert would say about that kind of procedure. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5A84.16048832 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: restoration vs refabrication

IMHO Restoration is the repair of an = object to it's original state or as close as possible.
Refabrication is the rebuilding of an = object without regard to the original material.

The best example of the difference = came from a building contractor. In a 100 year old house the original = walls are wood lathe and plaster. If a hole is patched with wood lathe = and plaster the wall is restored; if it is fixed with a piece of sheet = rock or wire lathe and plaster it is repaired; if the entire wall is = ripped out and replaced with sheet rock it is refabricated.

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

      I would consider that kind of a repair = purely unethical!  Yikes... it
      makes my skin crawl.  I hate to = even imagine what Julie Sloan or
      any other restoration expert would = say about that kind of procedure.

      Best regards,

      Dani Greer
      Greer Gallery & Studios

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5A84.16048832-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 09:13:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:30:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Happy99.exe web site Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:31:56 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.233156.0> Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk Thanks for answering my lead question everyone :) Here is the Happy99.exe website for the fix. http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/3652/SKA.HTM Pam -- ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists Moswood Mountain Limited http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 09:23:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:05:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: support group for grinder users Date: Wed Feb 17 07:04:24 1999 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.44224.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5A84.F8CB74BE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Elizabeth I'm with you. Am ready and eager to learn (at least try) new techniques. I've also noticed since signing on with this group my cutting and soldering skills have improved. Some improvement is due to practice but most is due to the comments/criticisms read here. Vic M. Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com Of Cours Ma'm! Yes, Ma'm! Certainly Ma'm! At Once, Ma'm! I promise I will learn, Ma'm! E 'n T in UK Also sprach Dani: Gee, what a shame... and here I thought I had all these potential = apprentices on bungi! Guess I'll have to import... Elisabeth, = you'll have to bring along one of your students. No grinders in the Greer Studios until you really learn to cut glass well! Period. End of discussion from my shop. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5A84.F8CB74BE Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: support group for grinder users

Elizabeth

I'm with you. Am ready and eager to = learn (at least try) new techniques.
I've also noticed since signing on = with this group my cutting and soldering skills have improved.
Some improvement is due to practice = but most is due to the comments/criticisms read here.

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com


      Of Cours Ma'm!
      Yes, Ma'm!
      Certainly Ma'm!
      At Once, Ma'm!
      I promise I will learn, Ma'm!
      E 'n T in UK

      Also sprach Dani:
      Gee, what a shame... and here I = thought I had all these potential =3D

      apprentices on bungi!  Guess I'll = have to import... Elisabeth, =3D

      you'll have to bring along one of your = students.  No grinders in the
      Greer Studios until you really learn = to cut glass well!  Period. End of
      discussion from my shop.

      ----
      As my grandmother said "...there = is only nobility of mind"
      North Lights Stained Glass - = homepage
      http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.= htm
      ----
      ----
      For subscription changes, please mail = to: glass-request@bungi.com
      To send to the = list,      please mail to: = glass@bungi.com
      Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5A84.F8CB74BE-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 09:27:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:31:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: support group for grinder users Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:30:17 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.53017.0> References: <<1999Feb16.124953.0>> Precedence: bulk Carol Tombro wrote: > > Is this the 12 step program? Are we to give them up cold turkey? Inquiring > minds want to know. > > Carol T > > Family Account wrote: > > > We'll be meeting every third Thursday in the basement of city hall. See > > you there! > > > > Dorothy > > > > ---- i know i'm not giving it up. most of my work envolves either really small pieces or very curvy pieces. i can cut pretty accurately, but as anyone knows if your a hair off it can through off the entire project. and sometimes you don't want to risk grozing. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 09:28:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:33:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Dear Albert and bungian historians Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:32:19 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.53219.0> References: <<1999Feb16.16714.0>> Precedence: bulk dodgestudio@juno.com wrote: > > On Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:44:45 -0800 Shirley Balloch > writes: > >OK, next question. Did they always use the adhesive? > >It boggles my mind. I can't even imagine cutting copper foil to the > >size we use. It has got to be worse than peeling an apple! > >Thanks for your quick reply. > >Shirley B > > > As far as I know they always used the adhesive although any trace of it > has long since disappeared in the original tiffany lamps. Now all that > holds them together is the metal work. (If you tap one on the side you > can now hear the glass rattle.) Good thing they didn't depend on the glue > to hold it together like some people today do! > > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs > > http://www.dodgestudio.com > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i would imagine that the bees wax would have melted out pretty quickly due to the lamps being on alot. i wonder how they dealt with that. maybe that's why the glass has a wax sheen--doubt it though. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 09:48:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:39:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Don495 From: Don495@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: RAGS Site Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:38:15 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb17.153815.0> Precedence: bulk could it be because the RAGS answer to most question is "Go to your local retailer" ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 09:58:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:39:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: support group for grinder users Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:39:47 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.53947.0> References: <<1999Feb16.171712.0>> Precedence: bulk Dani Greer wrote: > > Gee, what a shame... and here I thought I had all these potential = > > apprentices on bungi! Guess I'll have to import... Elisabeth, = > > you'll have to bring along one of your students. No grinders in the > Greer Studios until you really learn to cut glass well! Period. End of > discussion from my shop. > > Best regards, > > Dani Greer > ---- it really depends on what your definition of using a griner is. when i first used it i cut huge grooves (1/2-3/4" deep), as a relief cut for clouds. of course now i can cut those in my sleep (and i do). my cuts are very accurate. but it may have a flare, or a little bit to remove, or it may be a hairline off. the grinder was really never meant to remove a ton of glass (never to be used like a woodworkers disc sander). and a grozed edge, in general, looks awful on the edge of say, a suncatcher. lumpy, bumpy, eww. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 10:11:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:45:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: A solder/lead/grinding synopsis Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:44:46 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.54446.0> References: <<1999Feb16.175249.0>> Precedence: bulk Dani Greer wrote: > > Howard mentioned something in his last post that explained > something about his technique I've been wondering about since > he re-joined bungi. Howard, you have often stated that grinding > is essential to good foil adherence and subsequent structural > integrity of your lamps, no? I, and numerous others, have long > maintained that the foil is only a temporary measure employed > strictly to give the solder a hold on the glass... its purpose after > soldering is completely unimportant and useless. You mentioned > in your last post that all your pieces fit together tightly (speaking > of lamps, of course.) Well, all our pieces fit together so that the > solders runs down between the glass and results in a "heart" > much as lead is constructed. That is why we don't depend on > the foil for strength.... the soldered "lead" we create takes care > of strength, and the foil becomes superfluous. On the other hand, > a good glue bind on your foil is essential to keep the lamp together. > Wonder how many years that glue on the foil will last.... in our > semi-arid Colorado climate, not very long. Just my thoughts, = > > once again. As an added thought, remember the point of using > foil shears to cut out a kerf in your pattern is to allow for a > bit of a gap between glass pieces as well as to accomodate the > slight thickness of the foil on each edge of glass. Make sense? > > Best regards, > > Dani Greer > Greer Gallery & Studios > www.igga.org/greer/ = > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass solder will be drawn in to any sized joint due to capilary action. like soldering copper pipes for your water. the adhesion for the foil is important. if you ere to compare a suncatcher made with 5/32" foil vs one that has 1/4" the 1/4" (with more glue), will be stronger. also if the solderlines is what's holding in the pieces, why wrap the outside edges with foil at all? because the pieces would fall out. i believe the glue is a structural part of the project. lead came has it's cement, it stiffins the project. the glue does the same job, providing it has a good rough surface to stick to. otherwise it would slide around. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 10:32:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:14:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!MD6868 From: MD6868@aol.com To: toby@northlights.co.uk, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: restoration vs refabrication Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:09:58 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb17.16958.0> Precedence: bulk Again, thanks to you, and all who respond. This is the first large scale restoration work I've done. Thankfully, I was fortunate enough to have read Ms. Sloan's book, about a month before I was asked to do this. I'm additionally pleased to report that I did make a complete rubbing of the piece before disassembly. That rubbing is the guide for the releading. The piece is 26 x 80, and has about 500 pieces. Yes, it is going slowly, but I'm enjoying the challenge. The companion piece, which is equally filthy, but has no glass missing, is twice as long. I will wait a bit before starting that one, and will certainly adjust the price. Since we talk about pricing a lot, I thought I'd share this with you. I quoted my friend, who owns the property these windows repose in, $ 875.00 for the complete job, including removal and reinstallation. My glass retailer, who says my skill level is equal to the task, told me he wouldn't touch that project, (he's seen pictures) for less than $1200.00, not including removal and installation. I pass this along just to add to the ongoing pricing dialog. For me, the opportunity to restore the piece( no painted surfaces) at my pace, and to be compensated even somewhat fairly, goes into the learning matrix, and I'm quite happy to have the learning opportunity. Yes, the owner knows this is my largest restoration to date, but interestingly, no one in his area (Central Coast) would even consider taking this on, especially the removal of the window. Perhaps ignorance is bliss, but I looked at it and said "why not." Richard Glassics Artglass Valencia, Ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 10:52:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:49:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Pamela Burns-Tappan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Lead Question Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:48:35 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.54835.0> References: <<1999Feb16.135436.0>> Precedence: bulk Pamela Burns-Tappan wrote: > > Hi all, > > I'm conveying a question from someone who has become quite persistent > with me and I have no clue as to how to even answer her. Here is her > question and if anyone can answer I would surely appreciate it. > > Question: > Is there a 90 degree lead? I really prefer leading to foil and would > like to do boxes with lead. > > Thanks, > > Pam > > -- > ********************************* > > Pamela Burns-Tappan > Executive Director > The Stained Glass Artists > http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists > > Moswood Mountain Limited > http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited > http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1 > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i think they make 90 degree zinc. i would never recomend lead for boxes. besides the fact it would look butt ugly. it would pose a constant lead contamintion danger. on a panel it's ok, because you don't touch it much, unless you lick it. box your always going to touch a box. the lead levels in solder should'nt really hurt you unless you sucked on it. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 11:06:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:52:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: SGriffiSBG@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: fume traps Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:51:51 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.55151.0> References: <<1999Feb17.111958.0>> Precedence: bulk SGriffiSBG@aol.com wrote: > > I am about to solder my first piece at home (slow progress due to the flu) and > have a little area in the workshop. Will be taking a trip to WC at the end of > the month and I am considering getting the Inland fume trap. Is that the only > thing on the market? I have looked through several sites and see nothing else. > But Sears has a hepa 99.9999% air purifyer. Are they the same function as the > fume trap? if so which is better? And what else is available? > > And what about the pieces fitting too close? How close is too close. I use > the foil shears (and a grinder :-) and my pieces look pretty close (tight) But > what is considered Tight fitting pieces? > > Thanks guys.... > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the inland fume trap is garbage. hakko makes one that is larger, though i don't know how much better it works. and it's very expensive. get yourself the hepafilter. i've seen them in other studio's and they do a pretty good job. and be sure to have a fan of some kind to keep the vapors from going up your nose. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 11:07:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:33:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!MD6868 From: MD6868@aol.com To: alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Dale Tiffany? Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:30:38 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb17.163038.0> Precedence: bulk For what it's worth, my attorney, who used to be a deputy US Attorney, specializing in labor and trade matters, was heavily involved in the whole mess regarding "slave" labor in areas which are US territories, or protectorates, and so the contract "slavers" were putting "Made in USA" stickers on the junk which is the work product of abject misery. In some cases, the Feds were able to stop the practice, but Mark tells me the practice is more widespread than you'd think. Another practice I've seen employed (and I think I've seen this on the bogus Tiffany stuff), is to state the product is constructed of "American made glass" or some such nonsense. Although I know I'm somewhat acerbic about this, I simply tell people that I wouldn't be comfortable having things in my home that I knew to be the product of slave labor. No matter what the cost /perceived value relationship (hate to say this, but for a lot of people, the stuff we call crap, looks pretty good, and places this "type" of art / craft within reach dollarwise), the fact that it is sweatshop stuff would somehow diminish the joy of having it. Richard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 11:47:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:37:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: support group for grinder users Date: Wed Feb 17 08:37:13 1999 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.61513.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5A92.15433F2A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The truth is out. The E-tour is really a meeting of GA. (Grindaholics Anonymous). My name is Luanne and I am a grindaholic. I'll see you at the meeting. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5A92.15433F2A Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: support group for grinder users

The truth is out. The E-tour is really = a meeting of GA. (Grindaholics  Anonymous).

      My name is Luanne and I am a = grindaholic. I'll see you at the meeting.
      ----
      For subscription changes, please mail = to: glass-request@bungi.com
      To send to the = list,      please mail to: = glass@bungi.com
      Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5A92.15433F2A-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 11:55:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:16:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: "Albert Lewis" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Dale Tiffany? Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:15:31 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.11531.0> Precedence: bulk Albert is much more tactful than I am, and has imparted his wisdom to you which is on the mark. Just by ELAPSED TIME to build a shade, do any of YOU really think a shade of many pieces( and in most cases not true to the ORIGINAL) that is touted to be "assembled" in USA that sells for $199.00 which includes all material, labor, handling, billing, delivery and at LEAST two markups, is actually done here by a craftsperson for a LEGAL minimum wage (around $6.50 or so). There may be factories in the states where indentured servitude for a below minimum wage is practiced. My earlier subtle terminology of BULLSHI* still applies. As for quality, that can be ascertained by looking at a lot of shades by many different artisans. As for artistic value, I pass no judgement, BUT>>>>>>>>>>Quality of glass, usage of color and smoothness and blends will make one stand out from another with technique being somewhat equal. I get offered chances to "fix" imported shades from time to time and kinda get a feel for poor quality in construction as well as artistic interpretation. just a bit of rambling............H weaver51@teleport.com Elaine and Howard best lamps on the "net": http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 13:42:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:37:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: support group for grinder users Date: Wed Feb 17 08:37:13 1999 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.61513.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5A92.15433F2A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The truth is out. The E-tour is really a meeting of GA. (Grindaholics Anonymous). My name is Luanne and I am a grindaholic. I'll see you at the meeting. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5A92.15433F2A Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: support group for grinder users

The truth is out. The E-tour is really = a meeting of GA. (Grindaholics  Anonymous).

      My name is Luanne and I am a = grindaholic. I'll see you at the meeting.
      ----
      For subscription changes, please mail = to: glass-request@bungi.com
      To send to the = list,      please mail to: = glass@bungi.com
      Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5A92.15433F2A-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 14:09:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:16:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: "Albert Lewis" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Dale Tiffany? Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:15:31 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.11531.0> Precedence: bulk Albert is much more tactful than I am, and has imparted his wisdom to you which is on the mark. Just by ELAPSED TIME to build a shade, do any of YOU really think a shade of many pieces( and in most cases not true to the ORIGINAL) that is touted to be "assembled" in USA that sells for $199.00 which includes all material, labor, handling, billing, delivery and at LEAST two markups, is actually done here by a craftsperson for a LEGAL minimum wage (around $6.50 or so). There may be factories in the states where indentured servitude for a below minimum wage is practiced. My earlier subtle terminology of BULLSHI* still applies. As for quality, that can be ascertained by looking at a lot of shades by many different artisans. As for artistic value, I pass no judgement, BUT>>>>>>>>>>Quality of glass, usage of color and smoothness and blends will make one stand out from another with technique being somewhat equal. I get offered chances to "fix" imported shades from time to time and kinda get a feel for poor quality in construction as well as artistic interpretation. just a bit of rambling............H weaver51@teleport.com Elaine and Howard best lamps on the "net": http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 14:29:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:21:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!charles_spitzer From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: latest Glass Craftsman articles Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:17:21 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990217101721.009f0750@atlas2.az.stratus.com> Precedence: bulk Nice pictures of some of Oddy's work, along with a good article on framing using lead came + steel rod. regards, charlie phx, az -- Charles Spitzer Stratus Computer, Inc Speaking from Stratus, not for Stratus, Ascend, or Lucent ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 14:49:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:23:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ticnet.com!rjlcon From: "Jak N Wolfy" To: "Brian Shepherd" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: How did he do it? Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:21:50 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.52150.0> Precedence: bulk Brian, There is a gallery in Winter Park , Fla. called the Morse Gallery of Art. My husband and I visited there some years ago. It has many many pieces of Tiffany's work , lamps , panels, paintings an Favrile glass and pottery. They also have a large piece of a lamp that was rescued from the remains of his home in New York that was destroyed by fire many years ago. Regardless how damaged the piece is still amazing as you can see how it is constructed inside and out. The copper and sometimes brass foil (although I'm not sure I would call it foil as it's much thicker than what we are used to) is wraped around each piece. Sometimes there is more than one layer of glass, one behind another, to get the effect he wanted. Again these are each foiled. If you get the opportunity to go and see his work , I'd take it in a heart beat. Winter Park is on the northern outskirts of Orlando. It's address is 133 East Welbourne Ave. They also have a "Spider Web" lamp there. They said it is so heavy it takes two people to lift it on o the pedistal....... Check it out if you get a chance..........Jackie -----Original Message----- From: Brian Shepherd To: bungi Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 8:05 PM Subject: How did he do it? >Hello > >I was trying to remember where I had read that it was not decided if LCT >had invented the copper foil method. In moments of deep uncertainty I get my >books out and have a browse. I am very fortunate to have a copy of Neustad >(bought in much more pecunious days!) and looking at page 14 I noticed that >the glass was 'higher' than the solder - there was no bead - in fact it was >quite the reverse! The edge of the glass could be quite easily seen. This >was inside the shade admittedly but how did the foiling work if it didn't >wrap around the edge? > >I concluded in the end that the glass must have been grozed to an angle so >that the foil did in fact wrap but didn't overlap the face of the glass. > >As even without grinders (BG) the edges must have been perpendicular most of >the time so does this would mean that the glass would have to always be >grozed to give the 'nose' for the foil to wrap around? > >It would also appear that the copper must have been trimmed to fit neatly >along the edge after foiling! > >Given the reservoir of information on the bungi can anybody tell me if that >is correct. If it is then our modern methods are really quite different and >in more ways than just glued foil! > >Maybe I've got that all wrong - somebody tell me - I won't argue! > >I didn't find the quote about who invented foiling either! > >Best regards > > >BtB > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 15:06:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:08:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Albert Lewis Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: RAGS Site Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:12:26 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.51226.0> References: <<199902171434.JAA07535@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk > It's an old story in the recent renaissance of stained glass > popularity that many (if not most) retailers were once hobbyists > themselves who now want to "close the door" on anyone who comes after > them, develops a sincere (even fervid) interest in the medium, and > grows beyond "hobbyist" status. *My* local SG retailer says..." *You* can't make money making stained glass". Hmmmmm....hate to disagree but I already do....and I'm not a pro..just think what could happen *when* I get *really good*! ;o) In other words, they dont seem to want me to make money. I dont get it~! Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 16:54:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:40:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!charles_spitzer From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: safely purchasing over the internet Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:37:49 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990217103749.00940490@atlas2.az.stratus.com> Precedence: bulk >i may actually start selling things online. i'm trying to figure out >what things would sell, at what prices (figuring slightly higher to >offset online costs). though i'm not sure what the best pricing method >would be. i figure that someone could send me the check for the whole >thing. then i'd send them the project. it's just a weird trust thing. i >dunno how to work the whole thing out. > >since this is going out to bungi too... what so you guys think is the >best money transfer method? i figure i'd set up a seperate page else >where (geocities does'nt allow that kind of thing for free). right now >it's just the money thing that's messing me up. > there is at least one escrow exchange service that can be used for internet selling. i know of some people who have used it for high ticket items like stereo amps, etc. basically the money is sent to them, they tell you they have it, you send the item, when the delivery is made they send you the money. they get a cut (usually around 5% with some minimum fee) of the purchase price. i believe ebay sellers use something similar to this. i've done some buying/selling over the internet without using an escrow service, but i'm not sure i'd deal for $5000 on an email handshake. the key to this is getting references and checking them out. if they have none, or won't give you a phone number and valid address, then it's too dodgy a deal. regards, charlie phx, az -- Charles Spitzer Stratus Computer, Inc Speaking from Stratus, not for Stratus, Ascend, or Lucent ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 17:14:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:48:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Lead Question Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:45:58 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb17.174558.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/17/99 2:01:46 AM, ptap@pacifier.com wrote: >Question [passed on from a friend]: >Is there a 90 degree lead? I really prefer leading to foil and would >like to do boxes with lead. I've seen it advertised in "Stained Glass" magazine. Don't know who makes it, but I think it's the same company that makes multi-channel lead for plating as well as other funky shaped lead cames like the ones Frank Lloyd Wright used. ---------Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 17:16:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:05:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cyf-kr.edu.pl!zekarasz From: "Pawel Karaszkiewicz" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Subject: come back Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:06:15 +0100 Message-ID: <199902171804.TAA23630@kinga.cyf-kr.edu.pl> Precedence: bulk After a long break caused by total computer failure I am back on the = list I realised that I missed an interesting discussion on conservation and = restoration. Pity Pawel Pawel Karaszkiewicz zekarasz@cyf-kr.edu.pl ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 17:27:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:34:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ticnet.com!rjlcon From: "Jak N Wolfy" To: "Jak N Wolfy" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: How did he do it? Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:38:33 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.63833.0> Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: Jak N Wolfy To: Brian Shepherd ; bungi Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 11:21 AM Subject: Re: How did he do it? >Brian, > >There is a gallery in Winter Park , Fla. called the Morse Gallery of Art. My >husband and I visited there some years ago. It has many many pieces of >Tiffany's work , lamps , panels, paintings an Favrile glass and pottery. >They also have a large piece of a lamp that was rescued from the remains of >his home in New York that was destroyed by fire many years ago. Regardless >how damaged the piece is still amazing as you can see how it is constructed >inside and out. The copper and sometimes brass foil (although I'm not sure I >would call it foil as it's much thicker than what we are used to) is wraped >around each piece. Sometimes there is more than one layer of glass, one >behind another, to get the effect he wanted. Again these are each foiled. If >you get the opportunity to go and see his work , I'd take it in a heart >beat. Winter Park is on the northern outskirts of Orlando. It's address is >133 East Welbourne Ave. They also have a "Spider Web" lamp there. They said >it is so heavy it takes two people to lift it on o the pedistal....... > Check it out if you get a chance..........Jackie >-----Original Message----- >From: Brian Shepherd >To: bungi >Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 8:05 PM >Subject: How did he do it? > > >>Hello >> >>I was trying to remember where I had read that it was not decided if LCT >>had invented the copper foil method. In moments of deep uncertainty I get >my >>books out and have a browse. I am very fortunate to have a copy of Neustad >>(bought in much more pecunious days!) and looking at page 14 I noticed that >>the glass was 'higher' than the solder - there was no bead - in fact it was >>quite the reverse! The edge of the glass could be quite easily seen. This >>was inside the shade admittedly but how did the foiling work if it didn't >>wrap around the edge? >> >>I concluded in the end that the glass must have been grozed to an angle so >>that the foil did in fact wrap but didn't overlap the face of the glass. >> >>As even without grinders (BG) the edges must have been perpendicular most >of >>the time so does this would mean that the glass would have to always be >>grozed to give the 'nose' for the foil to wrap around? >> >>It would also appear that the copper must have been trimmed to fit neatly >>along the edge after foiling! >> >>Given the reservoir of information on the bungi can anybody tell me if that >>is correct. If it is then our modern methods are really quite different >and >>in more ways than just glued foil! >> >>Maybe I've got that all wrong - somebody tell me - I won't argue! >> >>I didn't find the quote about who invented foiling either! >> >>Best regards >> >> >>BtB >> >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 17:42:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:35:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!charles_spitzer From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: A solder/lead/grinding synopsis Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:30:04 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990217113004.00b49dd0@atlas2.az.stratus.com> Precedence: bulk >solder will be drawn in to any sized joint due to capilary action. like >soldering copper pipes for your water. the adhesion for the foil is >important. if you ere to compare a suncatcher made with 5/32" foil vs >one that has 1/4" the 1/4" (with more glue), will be stronger. also if >the solderlines is what's holding in the pieces, why wrap the outside >edges with foil at all? because the pieces would fall out. because, when the bead on the outside is tied mechanically to the solder seams on the inside, the glass is then held into a channel. >i believe the glue is a structural part of the project. lead came has >it's cement, it stiffins the project. the glue does the same job, >providing it has a good rough surface to stick to. otherwise it would >slide around. i don't think so. i think the act of soldering is really forming solder came with the iron. this is a mechanical reinforcement, and glue, whilst initially mechanical, will degrade from the heat of the iron or exposure to air. ever put a box in the attic sealed with packing tape? at least in phoenix, the tape will last a matter of weeks at most. regards, charlie phx, az -- Charles Spitzer Stratus Computer, Inc Speaking from Stratus, not for Stratus, Ascend, or Lucent ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 17:51:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:38:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: A solder/lead/grinding synopsis Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:45:00 +0000 Message-ID: <199902171838.NAA12770@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > i believe the glue is a structural part of the project. lead came has > it's cement, it stiffins the project. the glue does the same job, > providing it has a good rough surface to stick to. otherwise it would > slide around. Do you have some reference -- a book, a practicing professional -- you could give us on that? Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 17:57:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:38:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: RAGS Site Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:45:00 +0000 Message-ID: <199902171838.NAA12857@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > *My* local SG retailer says..." *You* can't make money making stained > glass". Hmmmmm....hate to disagree but I already do....and I'm not a > pro..just think what could happen *when* I get *really good*! ;o) > > In other words, they dont seem to want me to make money. I dont get > it~! I disagree, too. Anyone who tells you that is just full of ... well, Howard said it best. There's lots of money to be made in any craft, as long as you take it seriously, become a good craftsman, do you work well, don't just kick out pattern-book stuff, create your own unique work, etc. Anyone can be the next Tiffany. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 17:59:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:42:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Shirley Balloch Subject: Re: Another question Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:02:24 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.18224.0> References: <<1999Feb16.44556.0@?>> Precedence: bulk Shirley You can use an old technique which was common in Scotland at the turn of the century. In the large black areas, rather than flooding the area with solder, cut a piece of thin copper sheet to fit the area. Solder it to the surrounding foiled pieces. If you want to patina the solder lines other than copper, tin the piece and then it will accept the patina in the same way the rest of the solder beads do. Steve In message <1999Feb16.44556.0@?>, Shirley Balloch writes >I have been going through old Glass Pattern Quarterly trying to get >motivated and I came across this pattern. >It is a cherub looking angel. Chin on arms with wings behind only. >The magazine has this pattern in the fold out. It is to be made into a >22 inch square frame. > >The enlarged pattern has large black areas between the wing pieces up by >the face. My question is: does this represent pure solder? And if so, >what does this do to the strength of the over all project? >It is the Fall 1998 issue. >Thanks in advance, >Shirley >B >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 18:06:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:42:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Family Account Subject: Re: support group for grinder users Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:19:21 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.181921.0> References: <<1999Feb16.124511.0@?>> Precedence: bulk In message <1999Feb16.124511.0@?>, Family Account writes >We'll be meeting every third Thursday in the basement of city hall. See >you there! > >Dorothy > >---- Anyone willing to set up a GA (Grinders Anonymous) group? :-) ;-) ;-) -- Steve Richard (who once worked in Interlibrary Loans) Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 18:18:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:43:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: CWWSLW@aol.com Subject: Re: Dale Tiffany? Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:33:58 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.183358.0> References: <<1999Feb17.31259.0@?>> Precedence: bulk Dear Susan I disagree entirely. Howard is recognised as one of the very best lamp makers. He *does* know. And can express his judgement very accurately I'm afraid that you cannot trust the statement in the pseudonymous Dale Tiffany's catalogue. I am told (don't have personal knowledge) that what is assembled to the highest standards in the USA is the base to the shade. Steve In message <1999Feb17.31259.0@?>, CWWSLW@aol.com writes >In a message dated 2/16/99 8:12:40 PM Central Standard Time, >weaver51@teleport.com writes: > ><< to put it delicately...........BULLSHIT! > He is of oriental descent....... > Many years ago I had some communication with the company. > At that point is was in Moonachie, NJ. > > Also, if their work looks good, take a look at mine! > check out the archives for some earlier post directed toward this subject! > enjoy, H >> > >Dear "H"' > >I am currently looking at a catalog of Dale Tiffany's. I am personally quite >impressed with his works. I guess that means I must be some sort of fly, as I >am attracted to his "Bullshit." The catalog states that all products are >assembled in the U.S.A to the "Highest standards." I am aware that standards >are different to each artist, and I think it is not your station to pass >judgment upon him. >By the way.... >I did not know that being of oriental descent was a degradation! > >Susan >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 18:21:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:46:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: RAGS Site Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:48:05 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.2485.0> Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk Suzanne wrote: I just went to the RAGS site and viewed work from some of our friends. Nice, all of it! Pam, did you do the website? Nope I didn't do the web site. Blue Sky Partnership a division of Alice's Stained Glass did it. The developer is Alice Zimmerman and I think she did a great job! I know she has been working very hard to get it up and running. If it would have been myself I think I would be a couple thousand dollars richer right now :) Pam -- ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists Moswood Mountain Limited http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 18:30:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:25:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: fair.net!andor From: "Linda Letscher" To: "bungi.com" , Subject: Re: RAGS Site Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:23:10 -0500 Message-ID: <199902171924.OAA04794@smtp.america.net> Precedence: bulk Albert, I agree with you. There is more than enough room for everyone. There are gas stations on every corner, and grocery stores on every other corner, hairdressers, you name it all seem to find enough people to frequent their establishments instead of the next guys, and I don't understand some retail store folks separatist take on things. But I must say I have seen em come and go here in Jacksonville, someone that offers competitive prices, customer service (maybe remembering you name after spending a $1000.00 in their store would be nice, offering a good deal to long time customers once in a while will keep em coming back).... All of this said from the person that started out taking lessons from one of those defunct retail outlets...... I am a very loyal customer, and I will drive 100-200 miles any day of the week to go to a good retail store to find what I want. I don't have a clue what "rags" does and since I am not a retailer, don't really care. (someday maybe) But I would venture a guess that they are guarded in sharing thier ideas even in that group. It just seems like everyone is afraid of their business being stolen. Good customers can't be stolen. Price, customer service, friendly people if not the owner (hope the owner is friendly also), good inventory, willingness to get the glass you really want with their next order of they don't have it in stock, and great glass talk is my dream retail store. Linda Jo Tiffany :-) -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis To: glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 11:38 AM Subject: Re: RAGS Site > >> I cant understand why on some of the bbs there is such antagonism towards >> RAGS - but not against IGGA or ASGLA or other such associations. > >Probably because some of the RAGS founders posted angry, defensive >messages that implied (or even stated outright) that retailers are >somehow "owed a living," that they shouldn't have to be competitive, >that manufacturers and distributors should "protect" them by refusing >to sell to the retailers' "hobbyist" customers. > >It's an old story in the recent renaissance of stained glass >popularity that many (if not most) retailers were once hobbyists >themselves who now want to "close the door" on anyone who comes after >them, develops a sincere (even fervid) interest in the medium, and >grows beyond "hobbyist" status. On the other hand, it's >understandable if a retailer has actually made the investment in >stocking glass, tools and other supplies (though many don't, saying >instead, "I can order that for you!") that he or she would want to >protect that investment and try to curtail others doing exactly what >they themselves have done. > >There's nothing at all wrong about deciding to run a retail shop, >teach lessons and sell supplies. What's odd is that some retailers >think that they should be "protected" from others doing the same >thing. If the manufacturers and distributors actually *did such a >thing (and they don't, for the most part), it's arguable that certain >anti-trust laws would kick in. > >After looking at the RAGS site, though, it appears that the >organization means to promote its retailer members as caring, supply- >and education-oriented partners with their customers, which is an >excellent contribution to the glass world's growth and popularity. > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 18:30:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:26:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw From: "Granny And PawPaw" To: "bungi" , "suzy@comcat.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: RAGS site Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:16:27 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.91627.0> Precedence: bulk Suzanne my dear, if you have to ask which is Mary Anne and which is me then I really screwed up. This is about the third or forth piece I made, about 8 or so years ago. Thanks for liking it. I "lifted" the figures, credit given...... RAGS is a great group of people. Sure, we have self interest; but we know that the future and growth of the art depends on creating public interest. One of our prime purposes is to help, answer questions, educate and learn how we can do a better job for the artist, amateur or professional. Arnold -----Original Message----- From: suzy@comcat.com To: glass bungi line Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 12:06 PM Subject: RAGS site >Hi - > >I just went to the RAGS site and viewed work from some of our friends. >Nice, all of it! Pam, did you do the website? > >Arnold, loved "Mary Ann & Me." What I need to know is, which one is Mary >Ann and which one is you? :) I made that unicorn (big one) as my very >first piece after classes and it has a special place in my heart. It >proved to me that "I could do it." > >Suzanne > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 18:34:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:12:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: esavad@home.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Lead Question Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:13:53 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.31353.0> References: <<36CAE4D3.3C3F@home.net>> Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk M. Savad wrote: > > > > Question: > > Is there a 90 degree lead? I really prefer leading to foil and would > > like to do boxes with lead. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Pam > > > > -- > > > > i think they make 90 degree zinc. i would never recomend lead for boxes. > besides the fact it would look butt ugly. it would pose a constant lead > contamintion danger. on a panel it's ok, because you don't touch it > much, unless you lick it. box your always going to touch a box. the lead > levels in solder should'nt really hurt you unless you sucked on it. > > ---Mike Savad Mike could you do me a favor and go to the message board and post to her. It's the first message and I think the 3rd one down as well. http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi/mb82532 If this technique is something that is not recommended then maybe she should be aware of that. Thanks, Pam > > ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists Moswood Mountain Limited http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 18:36:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:51:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Fwd: Re: Tinning edges of foiled pieces? Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:14:54 -0500 Message-ID: <199902172015.PAA13096@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk My apologies to Albert Lewis, I sent you this by mistake! For Bungi: On this vein, I received a repair recently on a panel bought in Mexico. It was foiled with a thin lead for trim. When I took some of the border pieces out, noticed that the copper foil around these pieces did not wrap all the way around. The foil started and ended about 1/2" in on the outside edge. Is this standard practice? I've always foiled all the way around every piece. Maybe in Mexico they are saving on the cost of foil? Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 18:46:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:55:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Elisabeth! was:support group for grinder users Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:58:34 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.115834.0> Precedence: bulk The idea of the divine Miss E. acting as my apprentice is total absurdity!! The woman is a teacher of long standing who has trained hundreds if not thousands of students in stained glass. You won't be sweeping any floors here, doll.... = you'll be working right along side us getting ready for a = couple of big shows. Now stop being an imp! You're = confusing all the bungi newcomers. Start promoting the E-Tour! There are lots of folks on bungi who could benefit from your teaching and workshops while your in the US. Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 18:53:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:05:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Hi yall... Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:07:16 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.13716.0> Precedence: bulk I have been reading the discussions on grinders and wonder how everyone feels about the soldering tip that is half-moon shaped that is supposed to create a better soldering bead.? This is one of my weak points. Also the different lead contents of the solder.....Are there better uses for each of these? Thanks for the help...Abbie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 18:53:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:49:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: "M. Savad" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: fume traps Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:52:42 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.125242.0> References: <<1999Feb17.55151.0>> Precedence: bulk > > the inland fume trap is garbage. hakko makes one that is larger, though > i don't know how much better it works. and it's very expensive. get > yourself the hepafilter. i've seen them in other studio's and they do a > pretty good job. and be sure to have a fan of some kind to keep the > vapors from going up your nose. > > ---Mike Savad > I have a little fan that has a clip on it, it is clipped to the window seal (?) (bark bark) blows across my work bench...and hopefully out the other window. I do a lot of edge tapping soldering. Think I hold it too close to my face when I do that, as I can feel the heat on my face and smell it. Maybe I need those old lady magnifying glasses. Probably, what is worse, is that I find soldering very relaxing, and I sort of trance out and sing, and more than likely suck lots of fumes. I notice if I do alot of soldering at once, the next day, I am congested, and coughing. Hepafilters arent exactly cheap! T Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 19:05:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:49:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Don495 From: Don495@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: A solder/lead/grinding synopsis Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:58:29 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb17.205829.0> Precedence: bulk << believe the glue is a structural part of the project. lead came has it's cement, it stiffins the project. the glue does the same job, providing it has a good rough surface to stick to. otherwise it would slide around. >> Mike What about the old roll of foil I have that lost it sticky a long time ago. Doesn't the same thing happen to the glue on foil when in used in a project. Don ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 19:08:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:50:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep From: "Brian Shepherd" To: "Jak N Wolfy" , "bungi" Subject: Re: How did he do it? Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:26:07 -0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.22267.0> Precedence: bulk Hello Thanks for the reply. I expected the foil to be thicker. It would need to be in order to hold it's shape without glue or so I thought until some people started saying LTC DID use glue! Ok - if each piece is foil wrapped (even the plated ones) then why does that illustration in Neustadt (page 14) seem to show glass edges with the solder surface lower that the glass? It's a puzzle! I don't understand! BtB >Brian, > >There is a gallery in Winter Park , Fla. called the Morse Gallery of Art. My >husband and I visited there some years ago. It has many many pieces of >Tiffany's work , lamps , panels, paintings an Favrile glass and pottery. >They also have a large piece of a lamp that was rescued from the remains of >his home in New York that was destroyed by fire many years ago. Regardless >how damaged the piece is still amazing as you can see how it is constructed >inside and out. The copper and sometimes brass foil (although I'm not sure I >would call it foil as it's much thicker than what we are used to) is wraped >around each piece. Sometimes there is more than one layer of glass, one >behind another, to get the effect he wanted. Again these are each foiled. If >you get the opportunity to go and see his work , I'd take it in a heart >beat. Winter Park is on the northern outskirts of Orlando. It's address is >133 East Welbourne Ave. They also have a "Spider Web" lamp there. They said >it is so heavy it takes two people to lift it on o the pedistal....... > Check it out if you get a chance..........Jackie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 19:09:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:51:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep From: "Brian Shepherd" To: "Pamela Burns-Tappan" , Subject: Re: Lead Question Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:49:31 -0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.214931.0> Precedence: bulk Pam I don't believe it - something I can get in England that you don't get in the US? I can obtain lantern calm from a supplier off the shelf! (Sorry Elisabeth - you know who I mean!) It is quite hard and I would think rather too massive to look good on boxes though. Best regards BtB : >>Hi all, >> >>I'm conveying a question from someone who has become quite persistent >>with me and I have no clue as to how to even answer her. Here is her >>question and if anyone can answer I would surely appreciate it. >> >>Question: >>Is there a 90 degree lead? I really prefer leading to foil and would >>like to do boxes with lead. >> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 19:24:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:51:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep From: "Brian Shepherd" To: "Howard" Subject: Re: How did he do it? Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:42:46 -0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.224246.0> Precedence: bulk Howard Thanks for the reply. Yes I understand about plating (if that's what you mean) but what I'm saying is that the pictures in Neustadt (page 14) seem to show unwrapped glass or is it my imagination? All the areas shown would have to be plated because it all seems pretty level. Lif is full of mysteries! Best regards BtB >it is called laminating........MANY of his windows had mutli-layered glass >to get the effect he wanted (or the artist) some of the windows are reported >to have as many as 7 layers of glass. >I messed around with laminating the backs of some of the jewels I have used >in some of the dragonflies. >Certainly the foil was cut to width from sheets of copper to fit the >glass......they did not have machine rolled and relatively accurate pre-cut >foil. >Many of the early lamps had glass that was very muddy and quite translucent >as it was lit by a flame....Early bulbs were very dim and dense opalescent >glass would not transmit much of the DIM light. Layers of glass produced >effects that were not able to be obtained by a single thickness or color. >I have had my hands on some ORIGINAL shades and I MARVELED at the invention >and originality of them...but I LIKE the quality of MINE!!! (YES I grind to >a light tight fit wherever it possible and use 3/16" foil on glass that is >thinner than Spectrum ) >As for the strength of MY shades, over the past 18 years I have had some >damaged and even a few moderately CRUSHED or HOLED and the FOIL and SOLDER >still held and the non-crushed areas were still true to the original shape. >As I peeled off the foil on the broken pieces the foil on the "good" pieces >was adhered quite well! All of these were FULL FORM ODYSSEY. The worden >sectional ones are a bit trickier to assemble, and IMHO seem a bit at risk >at the seams if you do not take extreme care to get them to align >(grids).... >later, H > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 19:26:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:52:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: support group for grinder users Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:44:11 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.124411.0> Precedence: bulk Sorry Luann.... no one will every believe that Elisabeth is a grindaholic. You might as well say Toby is a cat. Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 19:44:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:53:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY From: JJKIRBY@aol.com To: BOBDU@prodigy.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: restoration vs refabrication Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:46:47 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb17.214647.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/17/99 12:05:26 AM Pacific Standard Time, BOBDU@prodigy.net writes: << Foiled windows seem to be an outgrowth of the craft movement in the US. Perhaps foiling major windows will catch on but I doubt it. The inflexable construction method would seem to insure self destruction in all but the most mild cliamets >> I visited a glass artist in St. Ignace, Quebec ( it's pretty cold there) and tried out all your arguments on him. In fact, he had a foiled frieze around his house. He was very distainful of lead, and claimed his foil weathered just fine. Personally I like leaded glass and I still believe it will withstand the tests of time better than foil. On the other hand it may take a few hundred years to be sure. I might be up there this summer, I will check on it. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 19:45:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:54:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: support group for grinder users Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:05:50 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.12550.0> References: <<1999Feb16.124953.0>> Precedence: bulk No, a support group. As in, it's okay, you don't have to give it up. If anyone wants to start a 12 step program (and there have been perhaps 5 or 6 steps to date on the list), go ahead, but I won't attend. Dorothy Carol Tombro wrote: > Is this the 12 step program? Are we to give them up cold turkey? Inquiring > minds want to know. > > Carol T > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 19:45:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:02:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ghostman.com!candy From: "Candy Thurman" To: "glass@bungi.com" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Dale Tiffany? Date: Wed, 17 Feb 99 18:00:08 Message-ID: <199902180100.SAA06673@mantis.privatei.com> Precedence: bulk >Maybe not bad to be Oriental, but kinda unlikely to be Tiffanys son. I understood him to be a second cousin descendant with legal right to use the name... Candy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 20:03:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:06:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: fume traps Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:06:57 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.15657.0> References: <<36CB645A.79CF@ix.netcom.com>> Precedence: bulk Suzanne wrote: > > > > > the inland fume trap is garbage. hakko makes one that is larger, though > > i don't know how much better it works. and it's very expensive. get > > yourself the hepafilter. i've seen them in other studio's and they do a > > pretty good job. and be sure to have a fan of some kind to keep the > > vapors from going up your nose. > > > > ---Mike Savad > > > > I have a little fan that has a clip on it, it is clipped to the window > seal (?) (bark bark) blows across my work bench...and hopefully out the > other window. I do a lot of edge tapping soldering. Think I hold it > too close to my face when I do that, as I can feel the heat on my face > and smell it. Maybe I need those old lady magnifying glasses. > > Probably, what is worse, is that I find soldering very relaxing, and I > sort of trance out and sing, and more than likely suck lots of fumes. I > notice if I do alot of soldering at once, the next day, I am congested, > and coughing. > > Hepafilters arent exactly cheap! > > T Suzanne i also wear a filter of some kind. right know it's a heavy dust mask. i seemed to have lost my other one. if you can find a welders dust mask (has a small vent thing on it), that should work pretty well. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 20:11:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:13:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ghostman.com!candy From: "Candy Thurman" To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Dale Tiffany? Date: Wed, 17 Feb 99 18:10:34 Message-ID: <199902180111.SAA07078@mantis.privatei.com> Precedence: bulk I examined one of the lamps I saw in 'The Mole Hole' by D. Tiffany Co.. and found to my surprise that the lamp was soldered only on the outside.. and there was still burnt wood ashes on the bottom side of the solder seams. So... I supposed that they used wood forms and floated solder all over everything and pried it off when it was cool... I may have come to the wrong conclusion of course.. I also noted that the solder did not cover all the copper foil and so when it was patinaed the bare copper foil (of course ) wasn't covered.. also the copper foil was not trimmed and so there was many an overlap.. A lot of effort was put into the lamp.. just can't understand why they can't take a little more time and do it right ;-) Candy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 20:12:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:17:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: MD6868@aol.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: restoration vs refabrication Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:57:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1999Feb17.6573.0> References: <<1999Feb17.16958.0>> Precedence: bulk Richard: What a great way to approach a challenge. Yes, you certainly underquoted but at the sametime you recognize a challenge that will increase your skills and promote your experience. Way-to-Go!! Peggy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 20:12:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:26:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw From: "Granny And PawPaw" To: "bungi" , "Suzanne" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: RAGS Site Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:17:49 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.151749.0> Precedence: bulk Suzanne, He might have been speaking from his point of view, not yours. Perhaps the reason he doesn't do a good job for you is because he isn't making money, he's bitter. Most retailers do repairs, build to contract, manufacture specialized items, bring in manufactured items, etc. just to cover their operating nut...rent, phone, electricity, advertising, freight, interest, etc....They can't do it, on materials alone. The market is limited. I don't feel sorry for them. Arnold -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne To: Albert Lewis Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 7:47 PM Subject: Re: RAGS Site >> It's an old story in the recent renaissance of stained glass >> popularity that many (if not most) retailers were once hobbyists >> themselves who now want to "close the door" on anyone who comes after >> them, develops a sincere (even fervid) interest in the medium, and >> grows beyond "hobbyist" status. > >*My* local SG retailer says..." *You* can't make money making stained >glass". Hmmmmm....hate to disagree but I already do....and I'm not a >pro..just think what could happen *when* I get *really good*! ;o) > >In other words, they dont seem to want me to make money. I dont get >it~! > >Suzanne >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 20:17:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:27:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: "M. Savad" Subject: Re: A solder/lead/grinding synopsis Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:01:18 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.20118.0> References: <<1999Feb17.54446.0@?>> Precedence: bulk In message <1999Feb17.54446.0@?>, M. Savad writes > >solder will be drawn in to any sized joint due to capilary action. like >soldering copper pipes for your water. the adhesion for the foil is >important. if you ere to compare a suncatcher made with 5/32" foil vs >one that has 1/4" the 1/4" (with more glue), will be stronger. also if >the solderlines is what's holding in the pieces, why wrap the outside >edges with foil at all? because the pieces would fall out. > >i believe the glue is a structural part of the project. lead came has >it's cement, it stiffins the project. the glue does the same job, >providing it has a good rough surface to stick to. otherwise it would >slide around. > >---Mike Savad > I can't agree Mike. With your background, you must be aware of the mechanical properties of impact adhesives in environments with widely varying temperatures. If the foil was a major structural part of the project, there is no reason to continue to use solder. We could just use some more impact adhesive to join the foiled edges together. In fact, we could just glue the cut pieces of glass together, because it would be just as strong as relying on the foil's adhesive. Also, impact adhesives work better on two smooth surfaces than one or two rough surfaces. The total adhesion surface is what is important. The amount of adhesive on the foil is not enough to go into the "pits" caused by grinding. IMO, of course Steve -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 20:29:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:43:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: fair.net!andor From: "Linda Letscher" To: "Pawel Karaszkiewicz" , Subject: Re: come back Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:40:19 -0500 Message-ID: <199902180141.UAA22114@smtp.america.net> Precedence: bulk Welcome back Pawel. Linda Jo -----Original Message----- From: Pawel Karaszkiewicz To: glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 8:21 PM Subject: come back >After a long break caused by total computer failure I am back on the = >list >I realised that I missed an interesting discussion on conservation and = >restoration. >Pity > >Pawel > >Pawel Karaszkiewicz >zekarasz@cyf-kr.edu.pl > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 20:31:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:56:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim Atwood" To: "Glass List" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Lead Came vs. Foil Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:52:53 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.105253.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_022E_01BE5AA6.B9ADD200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob E Duchesneau wrote: >Perhaps foiling major windows will catch on but I doubt it. The = inflexible >construction method would seem to insure self destruction in all but = the >most mild cliamets.=20 I do not understand the reasoning here. I work a great deal with = combination of materials where the different expansion/contraction rates = of wood versus metal versus glass versus ceramic (etc...) is critical = for the long term survival of a piece. Yet I do not understand why this = should apply to a comparison of cemented lead came versus well soldered = copper foil. =20 I have never considered the coefficient of expansion of glass to be = great enough to pay attention to (at least within normal climactic = ranges). The expansion/contraction of any metal (temperature) or wood = (moisture) has always been of overriding concern in any analysis I have = done. The expansion and contraction of metal or wood is always so great = that the glass coefficients might as well be zero for any analysis. So we must be looking at the metal lines between the glass for the cause = of any failure due to climate. I do not see why either construction = method would have a significantly different coefficient of expansion for = these metal lines. At normal climate temperatures the coefficient for = lead came is pretty close to lead solder, otherwise all solder joints = would eventually fail. A finished copper foil joint is mostly lead = solder, so I would think the same coefficients would apply. I doubt the = copper foil itself has much affect on the joint once it is soldered. I = have never seen a case where the copper foil de-laminated from the = solder as would be the type of failure one would expect to see if the = copper foil itself was the problem. So we must now look at how the two methods differ as far as the metal = join lines expanding and contracting around the individual pieces of = glass. If the copper foil was permanently glued to the glass with a = brittle or rigid adhesive, I see how this might be a problem. However, = the discussion seem to have already determined the glues used in copper = foiling either fail with the heat of soldering or soon thereafter = because of climactic degradation. So we are back to the idea the glass = is essentially being held in the channel formed by the copper and solder = which expands and contracts around the rigid glass. So lets look at the putties and cements used in the came method. I have = never seen a putty or cement which did not become brittle and hard after = several years. In other words, the putty or cement in a came window = must become the point of joint "failure" which would allow the metal = came to expand and contract around the rigid glass. In other words, the = putty or cement is no longer flexible so it can not absorb the changes. = Every old came window I have ever restored indicates this theory to be = correct. In all cases I have worked on, the putty or cement is no = longer rigidly attached to the glass, the came, or itself (i.e. it has = fractured into many separate chunks). In essence we are back to glass = floating in a metal channel which expands and contracts around the = glass. The only substantial difference I see is the lead came method = has some "gunk" (old putty or cement) in between the two which makes up = for a bit of "looseness" in the joint so the glass does not rattle = around to much. I could perhaps see a difference between the two methods for highly = textured glass. The cement inside lead came might have more of a = tendency to "fail" and allow the glass to move with temperature changes. = The foil method might have a tendency to have formed a rigid solder = joint around a textural "knob" on the glass. This might cause an area = of rigidity which could conceivable cause catastrophic failure in that = section of the piece. Or perhaps the suggestion is that the heart of lead came is thick enough = and the lead sot enough so it can "squish" between the pieces of glass = as it expands and contracts? Somehow I doubt it. I would expect the = added mass of metal cause by the heart of the came to actually make the = force of expansion/contraction greater and override any ability of the = softer lead to adjust. So all in all, I do not see why a copper foil and solder window should = fail before a lead came and solder window. Perhaps I am missing = something here. Does anyone know if any company or person has done = accelerated climactic stress tests comparing the two methods? ------=_NextPart_000_022E_01BE5AA6.B9ADD200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bob E Duchesneau  = wrote:
 
>Perhaps foiling major windows = will catch on=20 but I doubt it. The inflexible
>construction method would seem to = insure=20 self destruction in all but the
>most mild cliamets.
 
I do not understand the reasoning = here.  I=20 work a great deal with combination of materials where the different=20 expansion/contraction rates of wood versus metal versus glass versus = ceramic=20 (etc...) is critical for the long term survival of a piece.  Yet I = do not=20 understand why this should apply to a comparison of cemented lead came = versus=20 well soldered copper foil. 
 
I have never considered the coefficient of expansion = of glass=20 to be great enough to pay attention to (at least within normal climactic = ranges).  The expansion/contraction of any metal (temperature) or = wood=20 (moisture) has always been of overriding concern in any analysis I have=20 done.  The expansion and contraction of metal or wood is always so = great=20 that the glass coefficients might as well be zero for any = analysis.
 
So we must be looking at the metal lines between the = glass for=20 the cause of any failure due to climate.  I do not see why either=20 construction method would have a significantly different coefficient of=20 expansion for these metal lines.  At normal climate temperatures = the=20 coefficient for lead came is pretty close to lead solder, otherwise all = solder=20 joints would eventually fail.  A finished copper foil joint is = mostly lead=20 solder, so I would think the same coefficients would apply.  I = doubt the=20 copper foil itself has much affect on the joint once it is = soldered.  I=20 have never seen a case where the copper foil de-laminated from the = solder as=20 would be the type of failure one would expect to see if the copper foil = itself=20 was the problem.
 
So we must now look at how the two methods differ as = far as=20 the metal join lines expanding and contracting around the individual = pieces of=20 glass.  If the copper foil was permanently glued to the glass with = a=20 brittle or rigid adhesive, I see how this might be a problem.  = However, the=20 discussion seem to have already determined the glues used in copper = foiling=20 either fail with the heat of soldering or soon thereafter because of = climactic=20 degradation.  So we are back to the idea the glass is essentially = being=20 held in the channel formed by the copper and solder which expands and = contracts=20 around the rigid glass.
 
So lets look at the putties and cements used in the = came=20 method.  I have never seen a putty or cement which did not become = brittle=20 and hard after several years.  In other words, the putty or cement = in a=20 came window must become the point of joint "failure" which = would allow=20 the metal came to expand and contract around the rigid glass.  In = other=20 words, the putty or cement is no longer flexible so it can not absorb = the=20 changes. 
 
Every old came window I have ever restored indicates = this=20 theory to be correct.  In all cases I have worked on, the putty or = cement=20 is no longer rigidly attached to the glass, the came, or itself (i.e. it = has=20 fractured into many separate chunks).  In essence we are back to = glass=20 floating in a metal channel which expands and contracts around the = glass. =20 The only substantial difference I see is the lead came method has some=20 "gunk" (old putty or cement) in between the two which makes up = for a=20 bit of "looseness" in the joint so the glass does not rattle = around to=20 much.
 
I could perhaps see a difference between the two = methods for=20 highly textured glass.  The cement inside lead came might have more = of a=20 tendency to "fail" and allow the glass to move with = temperature=20 changes.  The foil method might have a tendency to have formed a = rigid=20 solder joint around a textural "knob" on the glass.  This = might=20 cause an area of rigidity which could conceivable cause catastrophic = failure in=20 that section of the piece.
 
Or perhaps the suggestion is that the heart of lead = came is=20 thick enough and the lead sot enough so it can "squish" = between the=20 pieces of glass as it expands and contracts?  Somehow I doubt = it.  I=20 would expect the added mass of metal cause by the heart of the came to = actually=20 make the force of expansion/contraction greater and override any ability = of the=20 softer lead to adjust.
 
So all in all, I do not see why a copper foil and = solder=20 window should fail before a lead came and solder window.  Perhaps I = am=20 missing something here.  Does anyone know if any company or person = has done=20 accelerated climactic stress tests comparing the two=20 methods?
------=_NextPart_000_022E_01BE5AA6.B9ADD200-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 21:14:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:48:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: esavad@home.net Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: A solder/lead/grinding synopsis Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:48:20 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.124820.0> Precedence: bulk >if >the solderlines is what's holding in the pieces, why wrap the outside >edges with foil at all? because the pieces would fall out. > >i believe the glue is a structural part of the project. lead came has >it's cement, it stiffins the project. the glue does the same job, >providing it has a good rough surface to stick to. otherwise it would >slide around. > >---Mike Savad The reason to wrap the foil around the glass at all, is that it is the bead, both on the front and the back that hold the glass in, not the heart. (And no-one here ever said different.) If you have a wider bead it will hold the glass in tighter. Just like any clamping job you need the right clamp for the job. Some jobs require big fat clamps, some are best with little skinny clamps. The problem is that if the beads, both front and back hold the glass in, you'd better be damn sure that you've got something pretty strong holding the front bead connected to the back bead! AND THAT'S WHY YOU CAN'T COUNT ON THE GLUE STRUCTURALLY. > >-- Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 21:29:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:49:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: esavad@home.net Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Dear Albert and bungian historians Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:36:27 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.123627.0> Precedence: bulk Mike, Most or all of the wax probably disappeared just from soldering the shade. >> As far as I know they always used the adhesive although any trace of >it >> has long since disappeared in the original tiffany lamps. Now all >that >> holds them together is the metal work. (If you tap one on the side >you >> can now hear the glass rattle.) Good thing they didn't depend on the >glue >> to hold it together like some people today do! >> >> Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs >> >> http://www.dodgestudio.com >> > > > >i would imagine that the bees wax would have melted out pretty >quickly >due to the lamps being on alot. i wonder how they dealt with that. >maybe >that's why the glass has a wax sheen--doubt it though. > >---Mike Savad > >-- >Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos >http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 >2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 21:38:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:16:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: banet.net!gmanning From: Goldpaws To: Family Account Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: support group for grinder users Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:08:23 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.18823.0> References: <<1999Feb17.12550.0>> Precedence: bulk Maybe the slogan or name of the group could be "Love Me Love My Grinder." Goldpaws Family Account wrote: > > No, a support group. As in, it's okay, you don't have to give it up. > > If anyone wants to start a 12 step program (and there have been perhaps 5 or 6 > steps to date on the list), go ahead, but I won't attend. > > Dorothy > > Carol Tombro wrote: > > > Is this the 12 step program? Are we to give them up cold turkey? Inquiring > > minds want to know. > > > > Carol T > > > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 22:45:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:19:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cyberportal.net!dmj From: "Dean Johnson" To: "Bungi List" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: cutting vs. grinding Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:17:49 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.191749.0> References: <<1999Feb15.61734.0>> Precedence: bulk This is my plug for Toyo's Thomas Grip cutter, which I, too, use and love, plus a tip on scoring that I was given by my teacher. The Thomas Grip does look a little like a crutch, about 4 inches high. The top is a plastic arch an inch long, curving gently upwards at one end. You rest the webbing and muscle between your thumb and first finger on this arch. The thumb and first two fingers hold the bottom of the cutter like a pencil, just above the cutting wheel. It is easy to apply pressure without having to keep a choke-hold in the cutter body with your fingers to prevent slippage (as is necessary with pencil-shaped cutters) and so reduces hand fatigue dramatically). But best of all, the cutting head and wheel PIVOT underneath the "crutch" top. This means when scoring curved lines you can simply swivel your fingers and the cutter head swivels with them- you don't have to swing your whole wrist/arm around in a curve. This helps to keep the cutter perpendicular to the glass even on tight curves. Here's the cutting tip: In order to judge the amount of pressure needed for scoring a particular glass (some are butter-soft and some rock-hard!) one should make a test score and break, and look at the edge of the break. There are tiny score marks (little curved marks that run from the score line down toward the bottom edge all along the score line) that represent the minute fractures caused by the cutter wheel. They should run about halfway through the sheet's thickness. If these little marks run all the way through they provide opportunities for the break to veer away in a tangent from the score line when you separate the pieces. The scoring pressure was too heavy, so lighten up. If the marks don't make it halfway through the sheet, then they don't provide enough incentive for the glass to break along the score, another reason for bad breaks. Use more pressure. Hope this helps. Has worked well for me. Elizabeth Johnson dmj@cyberportal.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 23:20:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:14:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: "Candy Thurman" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: a lot of effort Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:15:45 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.141545.0> Precedence: bulk "lot of effort was put into the lamp.. just can't understand why they can't take a little more time and do it right ;-)" Candy Just a simple observation, EXACTLY where was a lot of effort put in????? Perhaps packing it for EXPORT! No more energy expended by me on this subject,,,,,,,,,,,, enjoy, H ---- weaver51@teleport.com Elaine and Howard best lamps on the "net": http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 23:32:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:20:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: ABBIE23875@prodigy.net Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Hi yall... Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:04:47 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.19447.0> Precedence: bulk Abbie, If the tip you are referring to is the Weller "beading tip", I was not crazy about it when I tried it but I've been doing it with the other tips for so many years that that doesn't mean much. You really need to see what works best fory YOU. The same with the solder. Some folks love 60/40, others 50/50. I feel that the brand is as important as the grade. For the record I use Canfield 50/50 and have since the beginning. Just switching to Canfield 60/40 makes me crazy because it behaves differently and my usual tricks don't work. It's mostly in what you get used to, although there are also some hard and fast differences. For building an edge bead the higher viscosity of a 50/50 solder is definately and advantage. For filling large gaps a base of 50/50 with cooler melting 60/40 over top can help. Decorative solder work calls for a mix of solders. On the other hand if your solder has a lot of dirt in it switch brands pronto, but don't be fooled by the oxides that soldering too hot produce. Sometimes beginners work too hot and think the solder is dirty. If you clean the tip and immediately see it start to turn gold or purple iridescent looking you need to turn your temperature control down. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:07:16 -0500 "Evelyn C Mason" writes: >I have been reading the discussions on grinders and wonder how >everyone >feels about the soldering tip that is half-moon shaped that is >supposed to >create a better soldering bead.? This is one of my weak points. Also >the >different lead contents of the solder.....Are there better uses for >each of >these? Thanks for the help...Abbie > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 17 23:45:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:20:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard" To: "Candy Thurman" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Dale Tiffany and MORE! Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:12:47 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb17.141247.0> Precedence: bulk Must be a lot of Tiffanies.........Dale, Polk Street, Paul Shalin just to name 3 I personally know of. If you go through a phone book, or perhaps even an ONLINE yellow pages, I bet you will find a LOT more relatives! weaver51@teleport.com Elaine and Howard best lamps on the "net": http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 00:13:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:28:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!MD6868 From: MD6868@aol.com To: charles_spitzer@stratus.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: restoration vs refabrication Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 01:25:11 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb18.62511.0> Precedence: bulk Charlie, Thanks for your post. Only the smaller of the two, the 80 incher is out, at the moment. I had the owner go to his local lumber yard and get a piece of finish grade plywood cut to size, which they then painted white to match the border, and so it sits. In the smaller jobs I've done (such as smaller sidelights or door panels) I've cut Lucite to fit and reinstall the moldings. Currently the 80" panel is about 25% releaded. The design is intricate, and contains many jewels. I'm doing the relead on a piece of 3/4 in plywood, which is 3'x8', in close proximity to my two regular benches. When the 160" panel comes out, I'll have to add another plywood panel and a few more horses. When I placed this severely bowed panel on the table, and cut the rebar attachments, the panel went flat, in one sort of swift motion. When I get the time to learn to use my scanner, I plan to send out before and after pix, Richard Glassics Artglass Valencia, Ca. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 00:43:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:38:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Dale Tiffany? Date: Wed Feb 17 23:36:36 1999 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.211436.0> Precedence: bulk i find it funny in the repairing of these lamps---when someone brings one in to be repaired--i talk to them a while, find out what they paid for it originally, then i quote them that much or more to fix it------we may not make the original sale "in america"-but i can still make something that sounded awful, but after a very long day, you know what i mean debbie -----Original Message----- From: Howard To: Albert Lewis Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 5:23 PM Subject: Re: Dale Tiffany? >Albert is much more tactful than I am, and has imparted his wisdom to you >which is on the mark. > >Just by ELAPSED TIME to build a shade, do any of YOU really think a shade of >many pieces( and in most cases not true to the ORIGINAL) that is touted to >be "assembled" in USA that sells for $199.00 which includes all material, >labor, handling, billing, delivery and at LEAST two markups, is actually >done here by a craftsperson for a LEGAL minimum wage (around $6.50 or so). >There may be factories in the states where indentured servitude for a below >minimum wage is practiced. My earlier subtle terminology of BULLSHI* still >applies. As for quality, that can be ascertained by looking at a lot of >shades by many different artisans. As for artistic value, I pass no >judgement, BUT>>>>>>>>>>Quality of glass, usage of color and smoothness and >blends will make one stand out from another with technique being somewhat >equal. >I get offered chances to "fix" imported shades from time to time and kinda >get a feel for poor quality in construction as well as artistic >interpretation. >just a bit of rambling............H >weaver51@teleport.com >Elaine and Howard >best lamps on the "net": >http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 00:54:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:50:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Hi yall... Date: Wed Feb 17 23:50:05 1999 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.21285.0> Precedence: bulk you know gary i have been doing glass a long time, been reading these message quite a while, and it is so nice to have someone say that it is what works for you that you do i get so tired of hearing how you don't do something because someone 100 years ago didn't, when we all know that if they had what we have, they would use it.... do what you do to the best that you can do it with what you have to do it with i feel sorry for all the "newbies" on the list that have to feel they can never use a grinder or any other tool---use it, enjoy it, do what ever it is you need to do to do your craft well and enjoy it---just do it debbie -----Original Message----- From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: ABBIE23875@prodigy.net Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 2:42 AM Subject: Re: Hi yall... >Abbie, > >If the tip you are referring to is the Weller "beading tip", I was not >crazy about it when I tried it but I've been doing it with the other tips >for so many years that that doesn't mean much. You really need to see >what works best fory YOU. > >The same with the solder. Some folks love 60/40, others 50/50. I feel >that the brand is as important as the grade. For the record I use >Canfield 50/50 and have since the beginning. Just switching to Canfield >60/40 makes me crazy because it behaves differently and my usual tricks >don't work. It's mostly in what you get used to, although there are also >some hard and fast differences. For building an edge bead the higher >viscosity of a 50/50 solder is definately and advantage. For filling >large gaps a base of 50/50 with cooler melting 60/40 over top can help. >Decorative solder work calls for a mix of solders. >On the other hand if your solder has a lot of dirt in it switch brands >pronto, but don't be fooled by the oxides that soldering too hot produce. > Sometimes beginners work too hot and think the solder is dirty. If you >clean the tip and immediately see it start to turn gold or purple >iridescent looking you need to turn your temperature control down. > > >Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs > >http://www.dodgestudio.com > > >On Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:07:16 -0500 "Evelyn C Mason" > writes: >>I have been reading the discussions on grinders and wonder how >>everyone >>feels about the soldering tip that is half-moon shaped that is >>supposed to >>create a better soldering bead.? This is one of my weak points. Also >>the >>different lead contents of the solder.....Are there better uses for >>each of >>these? Thanks for the help...Abbie >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> > >Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs > >http://www.dodgestudio.com > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 03:12:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:05:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep From: "Brian Shepherd" To: "Tim Atwood" , "Glass List" Subject: Re: Lead Came vs. Foil Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:29:35 -0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.92935.0> Precedence: bulk Ummm! This could be interesting - slip sticks at ten paces! Fire at will! BtB > >Bob E Duchesneau wrote: > >>Perhaps foiling major windows will catch on but I doubt it.. The = >inflexible >>construction method would seem to insure self destruction in all but = >the >>most mild cliamets..=20 > >I do not understand the reasoning here.. I work a great deal with = >combination of materials where the different expansion/contraction rates = >of wood versus metal versus glass versus ceramic (etc......) is critical = >for the long term survival of a piece.. Yet I do not understand why this = >should apply to a comparison of cemented lead came versus well soldered = >copper foil.. =20 etc etc ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 03:41:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:24:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep From: "Brian Shepherd" To: , Subject: Re: Hi yall... Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:13:10 -0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.101310.0> Precedence: bulk Debbie I know I said that I had finished on the subject but I have to say this is exactly what I was on about. BtB >you know gary >i have been doing glass a long time, been reading these message quite a >while, and it is so nice to have someone say that it is what works for you >that you do >i get so tired of hearing how you don't do something because someone 100 >years ago didn't, when we all know that if they had what we have, they would >use it.... >do what you do to the best that you can do it with what you have to do it >with > >i feel sorry for all the "newbies" on the list that have to feel they can >never use a grinder or any other tool---use it, enjoy it, do what ever it is >you need to do to do your craft well and enjoy it---just do it > >debbie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 03:55:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:32:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!SGriffiSBG From: SGriffiSBG@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: fume traps Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 05:31:15 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb18.103115.0> Precedence: bulk T Suzanne writes: "Probably, what is worse, is that I find soldering very relaxing, and I sort of trance out and sing, and more than likely suck lots of fumes. I notice if I do alot of soldering at once, the next day, I am congested, and coughing. Hepafilters arent exactly cheap!" I know they are expensive but cancer is more expensive....cost is not the value but sustaining a healthier life is ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 06:12:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 05:10:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: SGriffiSBG@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: fume traps Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:14:25 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.11425.0> References: <<1999Feb18.103115.0>> Precedence: bulk > > I know they are expensive but cancer is more expensive....cost is not the > value but sustaining a healthier life is Boy, That's true! Guess I know what I am shopping for next! Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 06:47:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 05:43:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: Evelyn C Mason Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Hi yall... Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 08:28:33 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.02833.0> References: <<1999Feb17.13716.0@[207.126.97.2]>> Organization: SBWSA Precedence: bulk I used that tip and could never get a better bead than when I used my regular tip. There are a few posted on the "used, for sale" board, so I guess they haven't gone over so big, at least where I'm at. For myself, I never get rid of anything. I know next year or the year after I'll be looking for the darn thing. Carol T Evelyn C Mason wrote: > I have been reading the discussions on grinders and wonder how everyone > feels about the soldering tip that is half-moon shaped that is supposed to > create a better soldering bead.? This is one of my weak points. Also the > different lead contents of the solder.....Are there better uses for each of > these? Thanks for the help...Abbie > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 07:05:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 05:30:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: Candy Thurman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Dale Tiffany? Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 08:17:22 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.01722.0> References: <<199902180111.SAA07078@mantis.privatei.com>> Organization: SBWSA Precedence: bulk I wonder if you were in the same Mole Hole shop that I was in. I examined a hanging lamp and noticed several cracked pieces of glass. When I brought that to the attention of the owner of the Mole Hole, he just shrugged like it was no big deal. It was a small Tiffany repoduction with a price tag of $360. For the heck of it, I think I'll stop there today and see if it's still hanging there. btw, we get many tiffany knockoffs in for repair and the price quoted to most people is more than they paid for the lamp originally, and they almost always decide to forget the repair and go back to the same place and get a new one. Carol T Candy Thurman wrote: > I examined one of the lamps I saw in 'The Mole Hole' by D. Tiffany Co.. and found to my > surprise that the lamp was soldered only on the outside.. and there was still burnt wood > ashes on the bottom side of the solder seams. So... I supposed that they used wood > forms and floated solder all over everything and pried it off when it was cool... I may > have come to the wrong conclusion of course.. I also noted that the solder did not cover > all the copper foil and so when it was patinaed the bare copper foil (of course ) wasn't > covered.. also the copper foil was not trimmed and so there was many an overlap.. A > lot of effort was put into the lamp.. just can't understand why they can't take a little more > time and do it right ;-) > > Candy > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 07:47:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 06:50:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Different uses for different solders Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:48:44 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.44844.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Evelyn C Mason" >Also the different lead contents of the solder.... Are there better uses for each of these?< Yes. I find the 50/50 is more pasty and requires a higher temperature to melt & flow. This makes it excellent for filling in gaps. The 60/40 melts at a lower temperature and flows nicely (not as pasty as the 50/50). This makes it excellent for flowing on top of the 50/50 over those gaps, since it doesn't remelt the 50/50. Generally, I use the 60/40 for most work. And there is a definate place for non-lead solder. I only allow this type of solder when teaching = outside of my studio space, like, in a church. Let's keep it safe. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 08:18:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:10:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: A solder/lead/grinding synopsis Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:10:53 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.51053.0> References: <<1999Feb17.205829.0>> Precedence: bulk Don495@aol.com wrote: > > << believe the glue is a structural part of the project. lead came has > it's cement, it stiffins the project. the glue does the same job, > providing it has a good rough surface to stick to. otherwise it would > slide around. >> > Mike > What about the old roll of foil I have that lost it sticky a long time ago. > Doesn't the same thing happen to the glue on foil when in used in a project. > Don > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass all i know is that every project that i've taken apart to be salvaged, the foil was still sticky. and certain projects would have fallen apart a long time ago if the glue failed. things like blob creatures, where there is a little bit of foil holding it together. i think the glue adds to the strength, i never said it was a major source. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 08:41:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:16:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: "suzy@comcat.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Tinning edges of foiled pieces? Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:15:49 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.51549.0> References: <<199902172015.PAA13096@uz.ComCAT.COM>> Precedence: bulk suzy@comcat.com wrote: > > My apologies to Albert Lewis, I sent you this by mistake! > > For Bungi: > > On this vein, I received a repair recently on a panel bought in Mexico. > It was foiled with a thin lead for trim. When I took some of the border > pieces out, noticed that the copper foil around these pieces did not wrap > all the way around. The foil started and ended about 1/2" in on the > outside edge. > > Is this standard practice? I've always foiled all the way around every > piece. Maybe in Mexico they are saving on the cost of foil? > > Suzanne > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i've seen the method done. i would have to guess that it would save some foil and time. and it would alow the came to slip on better. i personally don't mind shoving it on... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 08:47:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:46:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: A solder/lead/grinding synopsis Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:46:43 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.54643.0> References: <<199902171838.NAA12770@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis wrote: > > > i believe the glue is a structural part of the project. lead came has > > it's cement, it stiffins the project. the glue does the same job, > > providing it has a good rough surface to stick to. otherwise it would > > slide around. > > Do you have some reference -- a book, a practicing professional -- > you could give us on that? > > Albert > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ok let's do an un-scientific experiment. take two strips of clear glass (for eveness). strips of glass 1-1/2" wide by 7" long. use 3/16" foil on the ends only. cut more glass, do the same thing only this time use 3/16" without glue. solder the ends together. put a wieght on one side and let the other side hang off the edge of a table. time it. see which one falls off first. in the theory that the glue makes no difference in strength, they should both fall apart at the same time. this would be a fair test. though in reality the foil would be wrapped down the whole piece. but in this experiment we want to see how much longer the sticky foil stays up comapred to the unsticky. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 09:17:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:24:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: socent.org!atf From: "ATF Distribution Center-K. See" To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Speaking of Tiffany Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:24:56 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.52456.0> Organization: SOC Enterprises Precedence: bulk A & E's Biography will have LCT on March 1st. Boy, with so much talk he must be turning in his grave. K See ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 09:21:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:27:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Evelyn C Mason Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Hi yall... Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:26:48 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.52648.0> References: <<1999Feb17.13716.0>> Precedence: bulk Evelyn C Mason wrote: > > I have been reading the discussions on grinders and wonder how everyone > feels about the soldering tip that is half-moon shaped that is supposed to > create a better soldering bead.? This is one of my weak points. Also the > different lead contents of the solder.....Are there better uses for each of > these? Thanks for the help...Abbie > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i personally never used it, some people swear by it. basically it allows a tunnel for the solder. but the bead can still sink. and you have to hold the iron in one direction only. that can be uncomfortable, you'll be twisting your body around more then you should be. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 09:32:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:35:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: A solder/lead/grinding synopsis Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:35:32 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.53532.0> References: <<1999Feb17.20118.0>> Precedence: bulk Steve Richard wrote: > > In message <1999Feb17.54446.0@?>, M. Savad writes > > > >solder will be drawn in to any sized joint due to capilary action. like > >soldering copper pipes for your water. the adhesion for the foil is > >important. if you ere to compare a suncatcher made with 5/32" foil vs > >one that has 1/4" the 1/4" (with more glue), will be stronger. also if > >the solderlines is what's holding in the pieces, why wrap the outside > >edges with foil at all? because the pieces would fall out. > > > >i believe the glue is a structural part of the project. lead came has > >it's cement, it stiffins the project. the glue does the same job, > >providing it has a good rough surface to stick to. otherwise it would > >slide around. > > > >---Mike Savad > > > I can't agree Mike. With your background, you must be aware of the > mechanical properties of impact adhesives in environments with widely > varying temperatures. If the foil was a major structural part of the > project, there is no reason to continue to use solder. We could just > use some more impact adhesive to join the foiled edges together. In > fact, we could just glue the cut pieces of glass together, because it > would be just as strong as relying on the foil's adhesive. > > Also, impact adhesives work better on two smooth surfaces than one or > two rough surfaces. The total adhesion surface is what is important. > The amount of adhesive on the foil is not enough to go into the "pits" > caused by grinding. > > IMO, of course > Steve > -- > Steve Richard > Verrier Art Glass Ltd > s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass and that's what solder is, it's glue. you can glue the entire panel, it would probably be even stronger then solder, stiffer any way. but that would look ugly. i can just tell you from experience. when i take apart somthing that is old, the glue is still active, and anything that is ground sticks on with alot more force, then something that had smooth edges. maybe the glue helps when there is a twisting motion in the glass. solder stretches and stays in place, but the glue may help keep everything in place. i personnally don't really care about the ultra-dynamics of foil, or materials. i know that they work for me. i don't care how the car works as long as it take me where i want to go... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 10:20:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:08:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Repairs/restoration, etc Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:05:51 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <199902181707.LAA14164@relay.acns.nwu.edu> Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk All this talk about restoration has re-inspired, but frustrated, me. I've been "doing glass" (as a hobby) for about ten years, and for quite awhile now I've wanted to try my hand at "rebuilding" an old window--replacing broken glass, old came, etc (but I'm not ready to tackle someone else's prized possession). Anyway, I haven't been able to find a panel on which to work. I realize my timing is lousy--even a few years ago my quest would probably have been easier. Antique shops and salvage places are too expensive. And I have no grandparents with boxes full of old windows in their basements (an acquaintance made such a find-- windows had long ago been removed for tuck-pointing of the house and never re-installed. Some were in pretty rough condition, but the house was still in the family so he was slowly restoring them to their original locations). Anybody have any suggestions for where I might look? I'm in the Chicago area, so there must be stuff around--I just don't know how best to proceed. Kaye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 10:46:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:16:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: half moon tips... Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:15:33 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.71533.0> Precedence: bulk Sounds like me , I never throw anything away..... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 10:49:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:25:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: All unleaded for children? Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:25:44 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.72544.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Christie,I am sure it is safer for items children come in contact with[like suncatchers in there rooms] but if they don't handle them,is it okay to use leaded solder? Thanks Abbie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 11:23:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:59:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Fume trap... Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:58:35 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.75835.0> Precedence: bulk Hey Suzanne, They were updating the equipment in a med lab here and a friend bought me the "fume trap" they had used in the lab. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 11:47:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:02:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: oops... Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:02:10 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.8210.0> Precedence: bulk Sent last message before it's time....The fume trap is bulky [1 1/2 foot sq.] but it sure works...maybe you can check into something like that. Take care,Abbie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 11:52:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:29:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!charles_spitzer From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Repairs/restoration, etc Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:26:21 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990218112621.00aef770@atlas2.az.stratus.com> Precedence: bulk there are companies that do demolition of houses, buildings, businesses, etc. they then sell the fixtures to recover costs. i'd look in the yellow pages and call some of them up. if they didn't have any, they might either keep a watch out for you, or know where else to contact. you can sometimes find old windows in yard or estate sales. i found a couple that have cracked glass, but are intact otherwise. regards, charlie phx, az >Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:05:51 -0600 >Subject: Repairs/restoration, etc >Sender: kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU >From: kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU >To: glass@bungi.com > >All this talk about restoration has re-inspired, but frustrated, me. >I've been "doing glass" (as a hobby) for about ten years, and for >quite awhile now I've wanted to try my hand at "rebuilding" an old >window--replacing broken glass, old came, etc (but I'm not ready to >tackle someone else's prized possession). Anyway, I haven't been >able to find a panel on which to work. > >I realize my timing is lousy--even a few years ago my quest would >probably have been easier. Antique shops and salvage places are >too expensive. And I have no grandparents with boxes full of old >windows in their basements (an acquaintance made such a find-- >windows had long ago been removed for tuck-pointing of the house and never >re-installed. Some were in pretty rough condition, but the house >was still in the family so he was slowly restoring them to their >original locations). > >Anybody have any suggestions for where I might look? I'm in the >Chicago area, so there must be stuff around--I just don't know how >best to proceed. > >Kaye -- Charles Spitzer Stratus Computer, Inc Speaking from Stratus, not for Stratus, Ascend, or Lucent ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 12:15:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:33:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: RAGS Site Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:32:08 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb18.18328.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/17/99 9:31:47 PM, "Linda Jo Tiffany" wrote: >There are >gas stations on every corner, and grocery stores on every other corner, >hairdressers, you name it You left out NAIL SALONS! Not too far from my house, there's a mile-long stretch of commercial strip with six of 'em (unless I lost count). Sparks (nails? what nails?) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 12:30:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:34:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE: support group for grinder users Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:32:10 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb18.183210.0> Precedence: bulk Also sprach Dani Greer: >You might as well say Toby is a cat. Well, if it's true that "you are what you eat"..... No, wait, that would make Toby - never mind, I'm not going there.......... Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 12:53:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:34:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Another question Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:32:04 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb18.18324.0> Precedence: bulk Shirley B's enquiring mind wanted to know: >>The enlarged pattern has large black areas between the wing pieces up by >>the face. My question is: does this represent pure solder? It might also be open space. If it's a big open space and you're concerned about the strength of the finished product, you can support the perimeter of the open area with some copper wire or re-strip. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 12:54:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:39:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: fume traps Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:32:07 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb18.18327.0> Precedence: bulk Also sprach Mike: >> the inland fume trap is garbage. I have one, and while I wouldn't go so far as to call it garbage, I find that it's effective only if I keep it within 6 to 8 inches of the point where I'm soldering. It is pretty incovenient to keep having to move the thing, but I do it anyway. 'cause all toxicity concerns aside, those flux fumes are so damned *irritating*! I also have a clip-on fan hanging from the shelf over one of my workbenches, and I keep that running (aimed *over* the work, not at it, otherwise the solder tends to set up "grainy") while I'm soldering. Of course, if the weather's nice, I just open both garage doors - or move everything outside - and let Mother Nature take care of the fumes. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 12:57:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:18:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cyf-kr.edu.pl!zekarasz From: "Pawel Karaszkiewicz" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Subject: conservation Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:19:04 +0100 Message-ID: <199902181917.UAA02766@kinga.cyf-kr.edu.pl> Precedence: bulk Dani I read most of the opinions concerning replacing leading and cannot add = more: it is a heresy to change lead cames for copper foil (and vice versa of = course) - they are completety different techniques and one will get a = new panel instead of restored one. Lines created in copper foil are more = "flowing" than stiffer lead cames and the overall apperance of soldered = edges is completely differenet - it is forgotten very often that the the = drawing created by leading is nearly as important as glass. We use = copper foil sometimes for assembling a broken large piece of glass when = glue will not work properly - on the long join the differeneces in = expansions of glue and glass play an important role and the thin solder = line is stronger than similar made of lead. It adsorbs too small = movements caused by temperature variations. And we never replace broken = pieces with new glass (unless it is missing) as it is hardly possible to = to find a new piece identical with the old one. And we rarely change old = renovations - predecessors were usually closer to original. And we = replace leading only when it is really necessary - even then we try to = leave as much original leading as possible. =20 Pawel =20 PS. Long time ago it was a short discussion about Polish glass from = Jaslo (Casimir in US). I found the address of the factory - perhaps = someone will be interested to contact them directly. Here it is:=20 Huta Szkla w Jasle, Sp.z o.o.=20 ul. Sniadeckich 19 38-200 Jaslo tel. ++48 13 4462091 fax: ++48 13 4462094 contact person: Barbara Kordek They have a nice set of samples ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 13:23:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:26:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Lead Came vs. Foil Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:23:48 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.102348.0> Precedence: bulk Putties and cements are no longer hard and brittle... they are firm but pliable. The hard cements from years ago contained Portland cement which is now understood to be a big no-no. We no longer use it in our cement formula. = Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 13:53:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:15:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bumper sticker? Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:14:31 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.101431.0> Precedence: bulk Going with the flow...... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 14:23:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:21:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Grinder-free experiment results Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:18:42 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.111842.0> Precedence: bulk OK folks. You grinder-less people made me stop and re-examine my copper foil construction methods. I was especially curious about what Albert said about grozing glass edges by swiping one edge of glass against another. So...I decided to take one of my production line products, a 4"x4"x5" square candle chimney, and try making a couple of them without using my grinder. Here's the results: Glass used: clear single glue chip, medium cathedral blue, Youghiogheny gold/Rose Ripple (yes, Sparks, it's the "Glass From H*ll), clear Morisco (a high texture) Tools used: Toyo pistol grip cutter, running pliers, breaker/grozer pliers, Morton Portable Glass shop (for cutting straight lines), copper foil, black-backed foil, fid, knife, 50/50 & 60/40 solder, Temptrol 100 iron with build-in temperature control, Fluxomatic Using the Morton grid & Portable Glass shop I set up for cutting multiple pieces of the same size, all straight lines. No problems cutting, except a few little "mountains" on the Youghiogheny Ripple glass. These were removed by careful grozing using the breaker/grozer pliers. No pieces had to be recut or ground. Grozed all edges of all 40 pieces of glass by swiping one edge against a scrap piece of glass. This successfully dulled the edges and removed any razor edged places. Both the copper/copper and black-backed foils stuck well to the non-ground glass edges. I tried both = hand-foiling and machine-foiling. The non-ground glass did fine either way. No problems of the non-ground glass cutting through the foil. Soldered well. Experienced no tearing away of the foil from the glass. Experienced the exact same fit as when I ground the glass. Final product is indistinguishable from ground work. Overall, took less time since I didn't have to grind, wash glass or dry glass prior to foiling. So....I'm a convert. But mind you, I only tried this on straight lines. My next experiment will involve curves. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 14:48:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:23:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: fidnet.com!dawnm From: "Dawn" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Cutting Techniques Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:29:15 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.62915.0> Precedence: bulk I have always realized that there are many dedicated teachers on the list and the latest thread on cutting accurately really proves that point. Boy do I wish I had taken classes with Elisabeth, Dani, Gary or any of the other teachers here who would have kept the grinder hidden away (at least for awhile)!!! Being taught in a craft center where I believe the teacher was little more than a newbie herself, I believe I absorbed a few cutting techniques that need to be unlearned. I'm going to try to find some additional training somewhere that focuses on the art and proper techniques. Gary, you said some very interesting things about allowing your students to learn without the expectation of *perfection*. My teacher emphasized the importance that the fit between the two pieces of glass be *perfect* (achieved with the grinder). As a result, several of the people I took the class with eventually gave up on stained glass after about six months because they couldn't deal with the frustration level of always trying to attain that level of perfection. (We were taught that if there was the slightest space we were to slide an extra piece of foil between the pieces. Now I know how detrimental that extra-tight fit is.) Had I not discovered Bungi I don't doubt that I would have thrown in the towell myself long ago. Dawn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 14:55:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:23:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: fidnet.com!dawnm From: "Dawn" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Tapping? Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:37:09 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.6379.0> Precedence: bulk Gary, You mentioned you do not allow your students to tap out the glass. I've always highly regarded your opinion, so I'll take your word for it that it's a no-no. But, why is it? Dawn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 15:16:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:23:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: fidnet.com!dawnm From: "Dawn" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Stained Glass Sabbaticals Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:25:09 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.7259.0> Precedence: bulk With all the discussion lately about learning proper techniques I'm going to start searching out various places and locations to take some additional training, and hopefully some extended sabbaticals. I'd like to find some quality training in Missouri, but also want to take advantage of my frequent out-of-state trips. Anyone know of any *in-depth* training available in Missouri? I'm going to St. Louis this weekend to take a refresher course on soldering. I'm going to be in the Houston area the first week of March. Does anyone know of any quality teaching facilities in the area? Any other stained glass places of interest to visit in the Houston area? I was originally thinking about taking glass blowing courses in Galveston over that weekend. Does anyone know anything about the quality of the hot glass courses taught at Galveston Glass? I'm going to be in Jackson, Tennessee sometime later in March. Any chance of a learning opportunity in the general area? I don't mind driving an hour or so in either direction. My main emphasis right now is to obtain as much additional training in cutting, leading, installation and design as possible. I'm interested in hot glass, but want to concentrate on stained glass first. With plenty of vacation time to spare, I'm ready to forget I even know what a grinder is, pack my bags and head off in any direction!! Dawn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 15:35:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:11:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: fume traps Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:11:10 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.121110.0> References: <<1999Feb18.18327.0>> Precedence: bulk Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote: > > Also sprach Mike: > > >> the inland fume trap is garbage. > > I have one, and while I wouldn't go so far as to call it garbage, I find that > it's effective only if I keep it within 6 to 8 inches of the point where I'm > soldering. It is pretty incovenient to keep having to move the thing, but I do > it anyway. 'cause all toxicity concerns aside, those flux fumes are so damned > *irritating*! > > I also have a clip-on fan hanging from the shelf over one of my workbenches, > and I keep that running (aimed *over* the work, not at it, otherwise the > solder tends to set up "grainy") while I'm soldering. Of course, if the > weather's nice, I just open both garage doors - or move everything outside - > and let Mother Nature take care of the fumes. > > Sparks > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass mainly i don't like it because it really does'nt do anything but make noise. it is'nt high enough (for edge tinning). mainly it re-directs the smoke. i use it now and then, but it has to be right on top of where i'm working to do anything... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 15:57:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:18:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Kaye Sodt" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Repairs/restoration, etc Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:13:53 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.61353.0> Precedence: bulk >>All this talk about restoration has re-inspired, but frustrated, me. I've been "doing glass" (as a hobby) for about ten years, and for quite awhile now I've wanted to try my hand at "rebuilding" an old window--replacing broken glass, old came, etc (but I'm not ready to tackle someone else's prized possession). Anyway, I haven't been able to find a panel on which to work. << Just about any stained glass studio is likely to have damaged SG panels that are likely free for the asking. Whenever the average panel is about 30% broken it is easier to make a new panel than repair it. The old panel is then trashed. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass, have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 16:15:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:37:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Elisabeth! was:support group for grinder users Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:26:12 +0000 Message-ID: <199902182237.WAA14934@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hi All, .....Divine, huh?? " 'Cor blimey!" Woman.... hhmm well yes (Having a look; Yep, all the required "bits" in reasonably the right places). And certainly NO Gnomen!!! But I AM an Imp!! My students know me as a horrible, nasty 'n wicked witch.... Have broom - will travel!! Why change habits of a lifetime!? On a less wicked note, I suppose my point has always been that, there are nuggets of gold to be had/learned even from the freshest of "newbies". I have a quote pinned on my kitchen wall "We human beings are leaning animals; when we stop learning, we die". ....and since I don't intend to die just yet, I suppose I'll just have to keep on learning....... Oh, and did I at one stage confess to the fact that I actually own a grinder...;-> To UNconfuse you wonderful "Newbies" out there; I am a cantankerous wicked Swede, who lives in England (... as in Great Britain). I am about to haunt you and pester you about how to work in lead (about which I am still learning very humbly) according to cheap and cheerful methods - yet old and ancient - during my forthcoming visit to USA in August and September. Rather than wonderful, new, dazzling techniques, requiring new, difficult-to-get "gizmos, costing an arm and a leg, I will be going back to basics. I will bring a motley of "silly" tools either I myself have dreamt up, or my students (all of whom I am very proud). Peggy Johnsen gave me the confidence to "dream on"; Carol Swann, Pamela, Suzanne Albright, Lenore, Lee ..... and Mary.... quietly lurking in the back-ground and a number of enthusiastic helpers are now making it all happen. Daft, calling it the "E-Tour".... but fun too. Hey folks! I just cannot tell you how much I am looking forward to meeting you....! For details of the E-Tour contact Carol Swann and/or click on her "tag" Visit the E-Tour" web-site...... Ok Dani??? Back in yer good book again??? Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK The idea of the divine Miss E. acting as my apprentice is total absurdity!! The woman is a teacher of long standing who has trained hundreds if not thousands of students in stained glass. You won't be sweeping any floors here, doll.... = you'll be working right along side us getting ready for a = couple of big shows. Now stop being an imp! You're = confusing all the bungi newcomers. Start promoting the E-Tour! There are lots of folks on bungi who could benefit from your teaching and workshops while your in the US. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 16:47:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:38:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Bungi Visitor about to descend on UK Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:26:12 +0000 Message-ID: <199902182237.WAA14931@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hi all, This is directed mainly to UK Bunginians - and Brian the Brit in particular- (seeing that you were about to pay me a visit). Daniel German (our photographer who set up our unofficial picture gallery) is coming to visit me on February 26th. He is coming for the day and staying overnight to catch a flight back to Canada on the Saturday 27th. Anyone care to join us for part of the day??? Dinner?? Stay over if you like?? I have one extra camp-bed, but reasonable amount of floor space (and a very loving Toby - who has a liking for ears....) Who was it who had the gall to state, that anchovies is OFF the menu... ;-> ??? Contact me off-group and perhaps we might have a week-end of it. For a nice smarmy couple coming, I might even consider giving up my king-size bed and retreat to a floor space myself. .... it depends....;-> Well?? Elisabeth 'n Toby in Hertfordshire (UK) ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 17:02:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:57:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: All unleaded for children? Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:55:13 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.125513.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Evelyn C Mason" >Hi Christie,I am sure it is safer for items children come in contact with[like suncatchers in there rooms] but if they don't handle them,is it= okay to use leaded solder? Thanks Abbie< Oh, sure. In my studio I've only used non-leaded solder once. I really prefer to use 60/40 and some- times 50/50. But I never use leaded solder when I am a guest teacher at someone else's place. You can never fully control the site if it is not your place. Therefore, I only use non-leaded solder so just in case someone at the church gets lead poisoning they can't blame me. Just covering my you-know-what. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 17:19:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:01:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim Atwood" To: "Glass List" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Lead Came vs. Foil Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:57:29 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.75729.0> Precedence: bulk How long will the modern putty or cement remain pliable? 10 years, 25, 50? I know of no substance guaranteed for more than 30. -----Original Message----- From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 2:28 PM Subject: Lead Came vs. Foil >Putties and cements are no longer hard and brittle... they are firm >but pliable. The hard cements from years ago contained Portland >cement which is now understood to be a big no-no. We no longer >use it in our cement formula. = > > >Best regards, > >Dani Greer >Greer Gallery & Studios >www.igga.org/greer/ = > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 17:34:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:04:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Dawn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Tapping? Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:03:40 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.14340.0> References: <<1999Feb18.6379.0>> Precedence: bulk Dawn wrote: > > Gary, > > You mentioned you do not allow your students to tap out the glass. > I've always highly regarded your opinion, so I'll take your word for > it that it's a no-no. But, why is it? > > Dawn > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass because tapping can cause mis-direction in the fracture. each tap tends to "cup" the break, and each tap makes that cup go in another direction. i only tap if i absolutly have to. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 17:50:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:38:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ghostman.com!candy From: "Candy Thurman" To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: a lot of effort Date: Thu, 18 Feb 99 17:37:08 Message-ID: <199902190037.RAA12426@mantis.privatei.com> Precedence: bulk They still had to cut and foil the glass and put it in the right place on the mold!! Candy >lot of effort was put into the lamp.. just can't understand why they can't >take a little more >time and do it right ;-)" > >Candy > >Just a simple observation, EXACTLY where was a lot of effort put in????? >Perhaps packing it for EXPORT! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 18:06:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:19:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: "M. Savad" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: A solder/lead/grinding synopsis Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:23:37 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.132337.0> References: <<1999Feb18.51053.0>> Precedence: bulk > all i know is that every project that i've taken apart to be salvaged, > the foil was still sticky. and certain projects would have fallen apart > a long time ago if the glue failed. things like blob creatures, where > there is a little bit of foil holding it together. > > i think the glue adds to the strength, i never said it was a major > source. > > ---Mike Savad > I am not claiming to know a *thing* about this. Just an observation... When my 1st husband died (1984)...*all* my glass stuff got packed including over 100 peices of cut and foiled glass (in the midst of a lamp class) When I unpacked (1998) my glass stuff, after having been stored all over... 1.At least one hot summer in a storage space in Sacramento, 2.a musty damp old garage in Seattle, within a mile of the Puget Sound for 4 years 3.West Virginia, for a year or two...I dont know what it was like, as my stuff went and I changed my mind..so it lived there without me awhile. 4 a *very* *hot* attic in Tulsa Oklahoma for another 6 years. 5 indoors for a year 6. A damp and musty basement in Tulsa.... Then 14 years later...It is incredibly hard to get the foil off those peices of glass. So...the adhesive has worked fairly well, I would say. Of course it was not soldered... I dont know if it means anything or not. Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 18:32:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:01:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!MD6868 From: MD6868@aol.com To: kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Repairs/restoration, etc Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:59:00 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb19.0590.0> Precedence: bulk Kaye, I do. I too, was frustrated, since the antique shops here were selling stuff needing minor repairs, for outrageous prices, and the flea market - swap meet route was getting me nowhere. I went to a salvage yard, one specializing in architectural antiques, and ask the guy if he wasn't offered leaded glass windows in "basket case" shape once in a while. He said yeah, put he wont buy it. I said, so do me a favor, here's 50 bucks, I trust you, hold it till you can buy me some windows, or whatever, call me, and I'll come get it. It took about a month, but I got two "losers", nasty, and one transom, in fairly good shape. Point being, those guys will normally reject that stuff, unless they know they have a home for it. Worth a try, I think. Richard Glassics Artglass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 18:59:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:14:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!vlg From: "Vincent LaGreca" To: "Candy Thurman" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Dale Tiffany? Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:14:11 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.161411.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks to all for the responses to my queries about D.T.. I have determined that his company is no longer in Moonachie N.J. I'll have to wait till I get back on my feet after surgery which is scheduled for Tuesday, to find out where (not that I am overly motivated about it) he is. Seems my bout with pneumonia was a God sent. X-rays, Cat scan's, and Biopsy have uncovered a non small cell mass on my lung which I would have never known about if I hadn't gotten sick. Fortunately it has not appeared anywhere else and is in the very early stages. Fume traps sound like a great idea and smoke enders makes sense too. Ciao Vic -----Original Message----- From: Candy Thurman To: glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 11:29 PM Subject: Re: Dale Tiffany? >I examined one of the lamps I saw in 'The Mole Hole' by D. Tiffany Co.. and found to my >surprise that the lamp was soldered only on the outside.. and there was still burnt wood >ashes on the bottom side of the solder seams. So... I supposed that they used wood >forms and floated solder all over everything and pried it off when it was cool... I may >have come to the wrong conclusion of course.. I also noted that the solder did not cover >all the copper foil and so when it was patinaed the bare copper foil (of course ) wasn't >covered.. also the copper foil was not trimmed and so there was many an overlap.. A >lot of effort was put into the lamp.. just can't understand why they can't take a little more >time and do it right ;-) > >Candy > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 20:13:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:41:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Tapping? Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:40:15 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.164015.0> Precedence: bulk Tapping is a time-honored method of breaking glass.... but, most of us, especially as we grow older can't handle the bloody noise of it. It's not allowed around here either! Also, if you don't really know what you're doing, you can damage your glass. Ugh, just thinking of the sound makes my skin crawl.... Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 21:07:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:26:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Hi yall... Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:24:29 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.162429.0> Precedence: bulk I pretty much use 50/50 on everything except special work as noted before including came where I believe it to be the preferred solder for anyone because it is better for bridging gaps due to its' higher viscosity. As for the melting point, 50/50 melts at a HIGHER temperature than 60/40, but you'll spend enough extra time fooling around trying to get 60/40 to bridge the gap that you'd be more like to melt the cames with it anyway. Solder melts at the lowest temperature a the ideal blend of 63/37 . Starting from there adding EITHER more tin or more lead to the mix raises the temperature at which it will melt. Adding more lead weakens the alloy, adding more tin strengthens it. (So yes 60/40 is stronger than 50/50 but in my opinion not enough so to make it an issue.) Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com > ><< For the record I use > Canfield 50/50 and have since the beginning. >> > >Do you use 50\50 on foil and came? > >I was told 50/50 on came because it had a lower melting point - less >risk of >melting the lead came and 60/40 on foil because it's stronger. At >least I >think I was told that, it >was a long time ago. > > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 21:19:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:28:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: bshep@dircon.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Work and learning styles Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:31:34 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.163134.0> Precedence: bulk Brian, When you tap on glass you are creating a radial shock wave much like ripples in a pond. Rather than directly addressing the score line and causing it to open in a controlled way, the artist who taps is hoping that a random shock will do the right thing by him. Sometimes it does, sometimes not. Any flaw or stone in the glass becomes a problem that might result in an unwanted break in the glass, but worst of all, tapping on the glass results in lots of little dings sticking out on the underside of the score that must be grozed or ground off. Who needs that?! As for new stuff, I love gadgets but only if they can do something better or faster than I can do it without them! Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:22:13 -0000 "Brian Shepherd" writes: >Gary > >Read this with interest! I have never tapped glass to run a break but >I have >seen many people do it! What specifically is your objection? It does >see to >be a common practice - I've even seen SG workers do it! > >I'm familiar with the Thomas pattern cutter although I haven't tried >one. I >missed somehow the original mail and wondered if they were talking >about the >Silberschnitt! > > >I'm always keen to look at different methods of doing things (older >or >newer!) and all the paraphenalia and specialised tools that accompany >a >craft fascinate me. I'm something of a catalogue-aholic anyway! > >Best regards > >BtB > > > >>By the time my class is done we've got people both pulling and >pushing >>their glass cutters. Breaking by hand and with runners (but never >>tapping....ok, maybe a little inflexible ;-) > > > > > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 21:33:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:27:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: dawnm@fidnet.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Cutting Techniques Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:39:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.16398.0> Precedence: bulk > >Being taught in a craft center where I believe the teacher was little > >more than a newbie herself, I believe I absorbed a few cutting >techniques that need to be unlearned. > >Gary, you said some very interesting things about allowing your >students to learn without the expectation of *perfection*. My >teacher >emphasized the importance that the fit between the two pieces of >glass be *perfect* (achieved with the grinder). As a result, several >of >the people I took the class with eventually gave up on stained glass >after about six months because they couldn't deal with the frustration > >level of always trying to attain that level of perfection. (We were >taught >that if there was the slightest space we were to slide an extra piece >of >foil between the pieces. Now I know how detrimental that extra-tight >fit is.) > >Had I not discovered Bungi I don't doubt that I would have thrown in >the towell myself long ago. > >Dawn > Dawn, What a shame! Part of the problem is the that adult education people in the schools and community centers don't seem to take stained glass seriously. Any friend who has started tinkering with glass is seen as a qualified instructor as long as they have made a cute suncatcher or two. They sure wouldn't be so cavalier in selecting an instructor for CPR (I hope!) ;-) Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 21:34:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:14:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: sales Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:18:20 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.151820.0> Precedence: bulk Thought I was gonna get lucky today. Gary saw an ad in the paper for a garage sale that included stained glass. I was really hoping it was loose glass. Well, this guy had a probably 10 suncathers of the same design, and 2 3"x2" panels, and 3 half round panels. Pretty designs and decent glass...but awful awful awful *awful craftsmanship. Nasty looking solderlines. It would seem that they were *meant to be so awful looking. I have never seen such poor looking work...anywhere. 99% of first solder jobs I have seen were *way* better. Do some people solder like that to make it look old maybe? There were huge gaps filled with solder (I guess it was solder) Then they are framed in zinc...I swear he must have been on something (stong) when he put those on! lol...I mean...off my a 1/4 inch easy if not more. Of course, now I am feeling bad, thinking, maybe the person that made these had some disease that made it difficult or something...I hope not. It was all I could do to keep my face blank... Tulsa Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 21:37:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:24:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Repairs/restoration, etc Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:48:05 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.16485.0> Precedence: bulk >>I realize my timing is lousy--even a few years ago my quest would >>probably have been easier. Antique shops and salvage places are >>too expensive. And I have no grandparents with boxes full of old >>windows in their basements (an acquaintance made such a find-- >>windows had long ago been removed for tuck-pointing of the house and >never >>re-installed. Some were in pretty rough condition, but the house >>was still in the family so he was slowly restoring them to their >>original locations). >> >>Anybody have any suggestions for where I might look? Check into any auction houses in your area for old panels to restore. > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 21:46:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:44:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Lead Came vs. Foil Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:42:10 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.124210.0> Precedence: bulk >>>Perhaps foiling major windows will catch on but I doubt it. The = inflexible >construction method would seem to insure self destruction in all but = the >most mild cliamets.=20 I do not understand the reasoning here. I work a great deal with = combination of materials where the different expansion/contraction rates = of wood versus metal versus glass versus ceramic (etc...) is critical = for the long term survival of a piece. Yet I do not understand why this = should apply to a comparison of cemented lead came versus well soldered = copper foil.<<< The realitive hardness of solder over came is thought by some to be the reason foiled windows do not stand up to year round weather conditions. Glass will tend to seat in the softer lead came and crack before seating in solder. BTW, a well maintained leaded window will be reputtied about every thirty years and releaded every hundred years. Millage will vary greatly. When relaading is called for, then just that is done. ALL lead came is replaced with new like material. Retension of old lead in an area of the window is not in the clients best interest. The object is to get the window into new condition without making changes. Cracked common glass is replaced. Cracked glass that is no longer available or cracked painted glass is joined together with came. It shows but that is part of the charm of having glass that is origional. Missing glass is replaced with glass that is as near to the origional as is available. Sometimes a good color match is available and it is necessary to heat treat for the desired texture. Obviously different studios will do things differently. Sometimes the client has his/her own ideas too. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass, have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 21:59:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:46:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: Mosfunland@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: glass/music Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:45:20 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb19.44520.0> Precedence: bulk I have a grinder, its sitting in an infant oxygen tent for a spew cover. There it sits. I like the sound of scoring glass, I like the snap, I like the ring of a new sheet. I like the tapping of my hammer to set nails. I like the sizzle of solder. The dag-gum grinder noise makes my blood run cold. I usually have music going. Depending on my mood, but usually always uplifting. Last time it was the Squirrel Nut Zippers. Any other music selections to score by? Maureen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 23:28:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:52:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: music to work by Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 00:57:16 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.185716.0> Precedence: bulk > I usually have music going. Depending on my mood, but usually always > uplifting. Last time it was the Squirrel Nut Zippers. Any other music > selections to score by? > > Maureen So nice to work in *my* shop! I control the music! ;o) I like the to score to stuff that reminds me of my teen years and being chased by boys! ;o) Grand Funk Railroad...IRon Butterfly.... and cant remember who did it but..."Crimson and Clover", of course..the Beattles...please please me...and the guess who....Van Morrison...the list goes on.....Joni Mitchell....Paul Simon.... I have a pretty cool stereo system all hooked up in the workshop...My big old pioneer speakers...a cassette deck, cd player and amp. When soldering I listen to Kenny Loggins, Seals and Crofts...mellower music. When my husband comes out to help he puts on stuff that I like, but for some reason is hard for me to work by and it irritates me. I cant work to the Neville Brothers, but I really like them otherwise. Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 18 23:50:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:35:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Hear me roar! Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 01:39:22 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.193922.0> Precedence: bulk Just mixed about 50 pounds of concrete by hand...and ready to arm wrestle! ;o) Kind of like a work out at the gym. That was my first pour since December. Thought I was getting tired of it. Guess not. Any body want a good story...let me know off list. The story behind my new sig file. Made me cry. Sweet dreams bungiland. Kind of liked it when someone called me TS the other day...oh to be as talented. ;o) Tulsa Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 04:53:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 04:13:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Stained Glass Sabbaticals Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:19:46 +0000 Message-ID: <199902191212.HAA11310@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > I'd like to find some quality training in Missouri, but also want to take > advantage of my frequent out-of-state trips. My, you do get around, don't you? Upcoming workshops are fully searchable on http://igga.org Go to "Search This Site" (it's listed on the lower left of the main screen) and follow the instructions for workshops ... you have to include the keyword +upcoming (*with the plus sign ... it forces the search tool to find workshops). You can enter keywords like "solder" or "came" or whatever, even state names, to force the search to restrict itself to those. This morning, there were 298 workshop results to "+upcoming came" although the word "came" isn't very restrictive, since that would turn up files with "200 students came to last year's event." The list of workshops is updated on a continuous basis. It's also available listed by month in date order at http://www.stainedglassbiz.com/ Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 05:08:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 04:13:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Lead Came vs. Foil Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:19:46 +0000 Message-ID: <199902191212.HAA11313@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > The realitive hardness of solder over came is thought by some to be > the reason foiled windows do not stand up to year round weather > conditions. Glass will tend to seat in the softer lead came and crack > before seating in solder. It's the inflexibility of copper-foiled work that makes it a bad choice for windows installed with one side to the exterior. Because they don't "move" as well as leaded windows, Bob's right in his thinking that the tendency for glass to break is increased. Thermal expansion's not the bugbear that many make it out to be, though. Glass expands very, very little in normal temperature ranges; if glass in an installed panel breaks, it's probably because the window was set too tightly. Note that even Tiffany Studios, now considered the paragon of all things stained glass, didn't build most of its windows with copper foil. The exceptions prove the rule. > When relaading is called for, then just that is done. ALL lead came is > replaced with new like material. Retension of old lead in an area of > the window is not in the clients best interest. The object is to get > the window into new condition without making changes. Yes. Lead is expendable and of limited lifespan, some more limited than others thanks to past practice in the lead industry. When it was discovered how to extract the trace elements from lead and sell those off in other markets (silver, antimony, etc.), the makers of lead came began extolling the virtues of "pure lead," the worst thing you can use to build a window with any sort of extended life span. These days, the makers of lead came offer "restoration lead," which has the trace elements included for longer lifespan, which should be 100-150 years at a minimum. > Cracked common > glass is replaced. Cracked glass that is no longer available or > cracked painted glass is joined together with came. It shows but that > is part of the charm of having glass that is origional. Such a repair is called a "dutchman," the new lead crosses a previously unleaded area, sometimes (often?) across a painted face. But in high-end restoration, such pieces are now glued with high-tech adhesives that have the same index of refraction as glass, so the repair is virtually invisible, closer to the original artist's intent, yet reversible (a primary tenet of good conservation practice). > Missing glass > is replaced with glass that is as near to the origional as is > available. Sometimes a good color match is available and it is > necessary to heat treat for the desired texture. ... and the original glass carefully stored away with the documentation rubbings, before-and-after photographs, etc., so that future restorers will have them available should it be possible at some point in the future to put the original glass back into place. > Obviously different studios will do things differently. Sometimes the > client has his/her own ideas too. Quite right, although let's never leave the original artist out of the equation. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 05:22:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 04:17:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10 From: Barbara To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: glass/music Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:12:50 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990219071250.006cab14@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> Precedence: bulk Hi... If you like the Squirrel Nut Zippers you might enjoy the Cherry Poppin Daddies.... I listen to them a lot but not while doing glass cause they make me wanna dance...... >X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland >X-PH: V4.1@router2.mail.cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) >From: Mosfunland@aol.com >To: glass@bungi.com >Subject: glass/music >Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:45:20 EST > >I have a grinder, its sitting in an infant oxygen tent for a spew cover. >There it sits. >I like the sound of scoring glass, I like the snap, I like the ring of a new >sheet. I like the tapping of my hammer to set nails. I like the sizzle of >solder. > > The dag-gum grinder noise makes my blood run cold. > >I usually have music going. Depending on my mood, but usually always >uplifting. Last time it was the Squirrel Nut Zippers. Any other music >selections to score by? > >Maureen >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 05:54:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 05:35:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: trellis.net!72867 From: "J&RinMonroe" <72867@trellis.net> To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:27:37 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb18.172737.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BE5B8D.E336FA60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please unsubscribe me. I won't be able to get my e-mail for a few days = and don't want my system to crash. Thanks, Roseanne ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BE5B8D.E336FA60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Please unsubscribe me.  I  = won't be=20 able to get my e-mail for a few days and don't want my system to=20 crash.
 
Thanks,
Roseanne
------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BE5B8D.E336FA60-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 06:53:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 06:38:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.smu.edu!gshultz From: Gary Shultz To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Tapping? Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:36:46 -0500 Message-ID: References: <<1999Feb18.164015.0>> Precedence: bulk Might add that if you feel you MUST tap, consider using the head of a large nail rather than something spherical. A six- or 8-inch nail, if held and used properly allows you to focus the strike directly the score and seems to virtually eliminate scalloping in most cases. It also is helpful to hold the glass firmly while tapping. =Gary >Tapping is a time-honored method of breaking glass.... but, most >of us, especially as we grow older can't handle the bloody noise >of it. It's not allowed around here either! Also, if you don't really >know what you're doing, you can damage your glass. Ugh, just >thinking of the sound makes my skin crawl.... > >Best, > >Dani Greer >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~ Gary Shultz - gshultz@mail.smu.edu ~~~~~~~ ~~~ Assoc. Dir. - SMU News & Information ~~~~~~~~ ~~~ Tele. 214-768-7665 Fax 214-768-7663 ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 07:57:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:34:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Mosfunland@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: glass/music Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:33:16 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.53316.0> References: <<1999Feb19.44520.0>> Precedence: bulk Mosfunland@aol.com wrote: > > I have a grinder, its sitting in an infant oxygen tent for a spew cover. > There it sits. > I like the sound of scoring glass, I like the snap, I like the ring of a new > sheet. I like the tapping of my hammer to set nails. I like the sizzle of > solder. > > The dag-gum grinder noise makes my blood run cold. > > I usually have music going. Depending on my mood, but usually always > uplifting. Last time it was the Squirrel Nut Zippers. Any other music > selections to score by? > > Maureen > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass currently i'm using louis prima (collectors edition), nightmare before xmas, zoot suit riot, cherry poppin daddies, and other swing mixes. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 08:24:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:39:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Tapping? Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:39:32 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.53932.0> References: <> Precedence: bulk Gary Shultz wrote: > > Might add that if you feel you MUST tap, consider using the head of a large > nail rather than something spherical. A six- or 8-inch nail, if held and > used properly allows you to focus the strike directly the score and seems > to virtually eliminate scalloping in most cases. It also is helpful to hold > the glass firmly while tapping. > =Gary > > >Tapping is a time-honored method of breaking glass.... but, most > >of us, especially as we grow older can't handle the bloody noise > >of it. It's not allowed around here either! Also, if you don't really > >know what you're doing, you can damage your glass. Ugh, just > >thinking of the sound makes my skin crawl.... > > > >Best, > > > >Dani Greer > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~~~ Gary Shultz - gshultz@mail.smu.edu ~~~~~~~ > ~~~ Assoc. Dir. - SMU News & Information ~~~~~~~~ > ~~~ Tele. 214-768-7665 Fax 214-768-7663 ~~~~~~~~~ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i remember when my maintenance mechanic's teacher told everyone that you have to tap the glass out. short straight cuts on single strength clear. i showed him the way you do it by hand, which you get a smoother break. i don't know if he's stil tapping or not (probably though). ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 09:01:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:18:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Lead came types was: Lead Came vs. Foil Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:17:46 -0800 Message-ID: <199902191617.IAA25346@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis wrote: >Yes. Lead is expendable and of limited lifespan, some more limited >than others thanks to past practice in the lead industry. When it was >discovered how to extract the trace elements from lead and sell those >off in other markets (silver, antimony, etc.), the makers of lead >came began extolling the virtues of "pure lead," the worst thing you >can use to build a window with any sort of extended life span. These >days, the makers of lead came offer "restoration lead," which has the >trace elements included for longer lifespan, which should be 100-150 >years at a minimum. I'd like to hear some more about lead came types...Albert mentions restoration glass, and my supplier lists regular lead came and two types of what they call extra strength cames...#2 alloy (doesn't say alloyed with what), and 4% antimony. What are the relative merits and drawbacks to each in window construction. All the catalog says is that the 4% antimony is for folks who "like a workout" when they use lead came...not very enlightening. Also curious...merits of flat came vs. rounded came. I like the look of the rounded came much more than the flat, so I work with rounded for purely cosmetic reasons. Thanks Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 09:22:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:26:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: All unleaded for children? Date: Fri Feb 19 08:25:50 1999 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.6350.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5C22.9BAFEC16 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Abbie As long as the kids don't teeth on it, the leaded solder should not be a heath threat. My son has a stained glass stork that I completed the day he was born. It has hung in his room since he came home from the hospital. Of course he was taught that you look at it not play with it. Vic M. Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com -----Original Message----- From: Evelyn C Mason [mailto:ABBIE23875@prodigy.net] Sent: Thursday, February 18, 1999 12:26 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: All unleaded for children? Hi Christie,I am sure it is safer for items children come in contact with[like suncatchers in there rooms] but if they don't handle them,is it okay to use leaded solder? Thanks Abbie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5C22.9BAFEC16 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: All unleaded for children?

Abbie

As long as the kids don't teeth on it, = the leaded solder should not be a heath threat.
My son has a stained glass stork that = I completed the day he was born. It has hung in his room since he came = home from the hospital. Of course he was taught that you look at it not = play with it.

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com


 

      -----Original = Message-----
      From:   Evelyn C Mason = [mailto:ABBIE23875@prodigy.net= ]
      Sent:   Thursday, February 18, 1999 12:26 PM
      To:     glass@bungi.com
      Subject:       = All unleaded for children?

      Hi Christie,I am sure it is safer for = items children come in contact
      with[like suncatchers in there rooms] = but if they don't handle them,is it
      okay to use leaded solder? Thanks = Abbie


      ----
      For subscription changes, please mail = to: glass-request@bungi.com
      To send to the = list,      please mail to: = glass@bungi.com
      Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5C22.9BAFEC16-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 09:24:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:48:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: Elisabeth! was:support group for grinder users Date: Fri Feb 19 08:47:10 1999 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.62510.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5C25.490C2792 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Elisabeth You are probably the most divine horrible, nasty 'n wicked witch/imp the world has ever seen. (Opinion subject to change after your class but somehow I think my opinion will only move up.) I also agree with your theory that we never stop learning. My grand father was born in 1894, died in 1996 and never stopped learning. He always said that was one of the secret to long life. One of my former computer operators told me that the quotes on my summary sheets were the most important things she learned in training. The first day was "Ignorance is curable; Stupidity is forever." Th second day was "The Difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits." The final days quote was my grandfathers: "No day is wasted if we have learned something in it." Looking forward to class. Vic M. Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com -----Original Message----- From: Toby [mailto:toby@northlights.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, February 18, 1999 5:26 PM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Elisabeth! was:support group for grinder users Hi All, .....Divine, huh?? " 'Cor blimey!" Woman.... hhmm well yes (Having a look; Yep, all the required "bits" in reasonably the right places). And certainly NO Gnomen!!! But I AM an Imp!! My students know me as a horrible, nasty 'n wicked witch.... Have broom - will travel!! Why change habits of a lifetime!? On a less wicked note, I suppose my point has always been that, there are nuggets of gold to be had/learned even from the freshest of "newbies". I have a quote pinned on my kitchen wall "We human beings are leaning animals; when we stop learning, we die". ....and since I don't intend to die just yet, I suppose I'll just have to keep on learning....... Oh, and did I at one stage confess to the fact that I actually own a grinder...;-> To UNconfuse you wonderful "Newbies" out there; I am a cantankerous wicked Swede, who lives in England (... as in Great Britain). I am about to haunt you and pester you about how to work in lead (about which I am still learning very humbly) according to cheap and cheerful methods - yet old and ancient - during my forthcoming visit to USA in August and September. Rather than wonderful, new, dazzling techniques, requiring new, difficult-to-get "gizmos, costing an arm and a leg, I will be going back to basics. I will bring a motley of "silly" tools either I myself have dreamt up, or my students (all of whom I am very proud). Peggy Johnsen gave me the confidence to "dream on"; Carol Swann, Pamela, Suzanne Albright, Lenore, Lee ..... and Mary.... quietly lurking in the back-ground and a number of enthusiastic helpers are now making it all happen. Daft, calling it the "E-Tour".... but fun too. Hey folks! I just cannot tell you how much I am looking forward to meeting you....! For details of the E-Tour contact Carol Swann and/or click on her "tag" Visit the E-Tour" web-site...... Ok Dani??? Back in yer good book again??? Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK The idea of the divine Miss E. acting as my apprentice is total absurdity!! The woman is a teacher of long standing who has trained hundreds if not thousands of students in stained glass. You won't be sweeping any floors here, doll.... = you'll be working right along side us getting ready for a = couple of big shows. Now stop being an imp! You're = confusing all the bungi newcomers. Start promoting the E-Tour! There are lots of folks on bungi who could benefit from your teaching and workshops while your in the US. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5C25.490C2792 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Elisabeth! was:support group for grinder users

Elisabeth

      You are probably the most = divine horrible, nasty 'n wicked = witch/imp the world has ever = seen. (Opinion subject to change after your class but somehow = I think my opinion will only move up.)

      I also agree with your theory that we = never stop learning. My grand father was born in 1894, died in 1996 and = never stopped learning. He always said that was one of the secret to = long life.

      One of my former computer operators = told me that the quotes on my summary sheets were the most important = things she learned in training.  The first day was "Ignorance = is curable; Stupidity is forever." Th second day was "The = Difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's = limits." The final days quote was my grandfathers: "No day is = wasted if we have learned something in it." 

      Looking forward to class.

      Vic M.
      Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com


      -----Original = Message-----
      From:   Toby [mailto:toby@northlights.co.uk= ]
      Sent:   Thursday, February 18, 1999 5:26 PM
      To:     glass@bungi.com
      Subject:       = Re: Elisabeth! was:support group for = grinder users

      Hi All,
      .....Divine, huh??
      " 'Cor blimey!"

      Woman.... hhmm well yes (Having a = look; Yep,  all the required "bits"
      in reasonably the right places). And = certainly NO Gnomen!!!

      But I AM an Imp!! My students know me = as a horrible, nasty 'n wicked
      witch.... Have broom - will travel!! = Why change habits of a
      lifetime!?
      On a less wicked note, I suppose my = point has always been
      that, there are nuggets of gold to be = had/learned even from the
      freshest of "newbies". I = have a quote pinned on my kitchen wall
               &nb= sp;        "We human beings are = leaning animals;
               &nb= sp;          when we stop = learning, we die".

      ....and since I don't intend to die = just yet, I suppose I'll just
      have to keep on learning.......=

       Oh, and did I at one stage = confess to the fact that I actually own a
      grinder...;->

      To UNconfuse you wonderful = "Newbies" out there; I am a cantankerous
      wicked Swede, who lives in England = (... as in Great Britain).
      I am about to haunt you and pester = you about how to work in lead
      (about which I am still learning very = humbly) according to cheap and
      cheerful methods - yet old and = ancient -  during my forthcoming visit
      to USA in August and = September.
      Rather than wonderful, new, dazzling = techniques, requiring new,
      difficult-to-get "gizmos, = costing an arm and a leg, I will be going
      back to basics. I will bring a motley = of "silly" tools either I
      myself have dreamt up, or my students = (all of whom I am very proud).
      Peggy Johnsen gave me the confidence = to "dream on"; Carol Swann,
      Pamela, Suzanne Albright, Lenore, Lee = ..... and Mary.... quietly
      lurking in the back-ground and a = number of enthusiastic helpers are
      now making it all happen.
      Daft, calling it the = "E-Tour".... but fun too.
      Hey folks!
      I just cannot tell you how much I am = looking forward to meeting
      you....!
      For details of the E-Tour contact = Carol Swann and/or click on her
      "tag" Visit the = E-Tour" web-site......

      Ok Dani???
      Back in yer good book again???
      Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

       

      The idea of the divine Miss E. acting =
      as my apprentice is total = absurdity!!  The woman is a teacher of long
      standing who has trained hundreds if = not thousands of students in
      stained glass.  You won't be = sweeping any floors here, doll.... =3D

      you'll be working right along side us = getting ready for a =3D

      couple of big shows.  Now stop = being an imp!  You're =3D

      confusing all the bungi = newcomers.  Start promoting the E-Tour!
      There are lots of folks on bungi who = could benefit from your
      teaching and workshops while your in = the US.
      ----
      As my grandmother said "...there = is only nobility of mind"
      North Lights Stained Glass - = homepage
      http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.= htm
      ----
      ----
      For subscription changes, please mail = to: glass-request@bungi.com
      To send to the = list,      please mail to: = glass@bungi.com
      Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5C25.490C2792-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 10:03:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:35:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: infinet.com!glasscat From: Carolyn Noel To: SGriffiSBG@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: fume traps Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:33:59 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.73359.0> References: <<1999Feb17.111958.0>> Organization: The Stained Glass Place Precedence: bulk I've got an Inland Fume Trap and don't care for it. I agree with Mike. You have to have it within inches of where you're soldering, and it's pretty loud. Carolyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 10:31:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:36:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Lead came types was: Lead Came vs. Foil Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:42:16 +0000 Message-ID: <199902191735.MAA15657@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > I'd like to hear some more about lead came types...Albert mentions > restoration glass, and my supplier lists regular lead came and two types of > what they call extra strength cames...#2 alloy (doesn't say alloyed with > what), and 4% antimony. Julie Sloan wrote "The Best Alloy for Lead Came" in the September 1988 issue of Professional Stained Glass. I think Joe Porcelli's Glass Craftsman magazine has it as a reprint, although she covers the topic in her book, "Conservation of Stained Glass," page 118. See http://aiap.com/ [blatant plug ... sorry] > All the catalog says is that the 4% antimony is for folks who "like a > workout" when they use lead came...not very enlightening. The trace elements make the came stiffer, hence the "workout," but they also make the came last longer. > Also curious...merits of flat came vs. rounded came. I like the look of the > rounded came much more than the flat, so I work with rounded for purely > cosmetic reasons. I think aesthetics are all that come into question in the round vs. flat area. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 10:35:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:18:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Grinder-free experiment results Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:16:34 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb19.171634.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/18/99 5:24:19 PM, Ensembles@compuserve.com wrote: >OK folks. You grinder-less people made me stop >and re-examine my copper foil construction methods. > [...] Hoo boy, did this message remind me of all the "lab reports" I had to write for my chemistry courses in college! It's as true as ever that "one lab session is worth a thousand lectures." I'm gonna check this out too....... Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 10:56:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:45:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ipa.net!gecko From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: music to score by Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:48:18 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.54818.0> Precedence: bulk >> I usually have music going. Depending on my mood, but usually always >> uplifting. Last time it was the Squirrel Nut Zippers. Any other music >> selections to score by? >> >> Maureen Alas... 'music to score by', just doesn't have the same meaning for me that it did years ago. Back then it was Dan Fogleberg. But I wasn't working with glass. But NOW in my glass room, I love having some nice music to set to mood for being both creative and productive. My far and away FAVORITE is *Loreena McKennitt*. Her music is haunting and beautiful. I love it. Second best glassworking music for me is the *Les Miserables* cd set. AWSOME music. I never get tired of it. >From there I get rather ecclectic with things such as Fleetwood Mac, Bonnie Raitt, Natalie Merchant, Annie Lennox, , Sarah McLachlan, ABBA, Cecilia Bartoli, Kathleen Battle, and BERNADETTE PETERS (peronal fav.. I know, I'm a bit weird...). The list goes on. 'Bout the only thing I can't handle is really heavy metal. Yep Suzanne, I love Joni Mitchell, and the Beatles too! Do any of you get NPR? National Public Radio? I've whiled away countless glassroom hours being entertained by NPR. It's excellent radio! Usually classical music, and intelligent talk. I've even put a 5x5 tv and vcr on my glass table to listen to my favorite movies while I work. I'm pretty sure I need an electronics 12 step program. That's what my roommates tell me anyhow. Can any of you suggest a video tape that you KNOW to be good for learning to work with came. I have banged my head against it for too long... I want PROFESSIONAL help!! I've seen videos advertised for 40 or 50 bucks, but I'd sure like to know if it's good or not before I drop that kind of money. Blake :-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 10:58:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:49:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Jess Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: NG Re: music to work by Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:51:45 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.55145.0> References: <<002301be5c11$825d3ae0$317601d8@ksinc.ksinc.net>> Precedence: bulk > Joan Jet sang Crimson and Clover Lol... About 20 yrs later I think! I havent heard that version. I am thinking maybe Tommy James and the Shondells? Anybody know? It is driving me crazy now. Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 11:12:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:52:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Jess Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: music to work by Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:56:26 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.55626.0> References: <<002301be5c11$825d3ae0$317601d8@ksinc.ksinc.net>> Precedence: bulk > in re: to sales: > I am new at stained glass and I have gaps in my work that I just cant seem > to get rid of, even with grinding. > I have ordered some pattern books off the net and am going to keep plugging > away at it. > Maybe that is the situation with the gentleman who had the stained glass at > the sale. If that is the case then I'm sure he would be very appreciative > of your tact and hope he is not a member (lurker) here trying to learn a > little about how to correct his gaps and bad solder. I didnt mean to be disrespectful about him. My soldering is not perfect by a long shot. The man who had the glass was not the person that made them. Even if he was on the list, he wouldnt recognise himself. What I was wondering, was if some people solder the way this work was soldered, *on purpose*, to try to make the panel appear old? It appears to me that they werent attempting to get a smooth bead. Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 11:28:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:44:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: "Christie A. Wood" Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Grinder-free experiment results Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:39:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1999Feb19.23915.0> References: <<1999Feb18.111842.0>> Precedence: bulk Congratulations, Christie. I like your pioneering spirit so much I have decided to try it myself. (I said to myself, if Christie's not afraid to try it, I can do it too.) Did you by any chance determine amount of time saved? Peggy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 11:50:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:02:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: fume traps Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:01:51 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.9151.0> References: <<1999Feb19.73359.0>> Precedence: bulk Carolyn Noel wrote: > > I've got an Inland Fume Trap and don't care for it. I agree with Mike. > You have to have it within inches of where you're soldering, and it's > pretty loud. > Carolyn > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass currently mine is full of solder. i guess some of the solder is carried off with the fumes. there's enough in there, that i had to scrape it because the fan was clicking against it. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 11:59:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:04:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!charles_spitzer From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: music to score by Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:00:31 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990219120031.00a29650@atlas2.az.stratus.com> References: <<"1999Feb19.54818.0*"@MHS>> Precedence: bulk At 11:48 AM 2/19/99 -0600, gecko@ipa.net wrote: >Can any of you suggest a video tape that you KNOW to be good for learning to >work with came. I have banged my head against it for too long... I want >PROFESSIONAL help!! I've seen videos advertised for 40 or 50 bucks, but I'd >sure like to know if it's good or not before I drop that kind of money. imho, it is a LOT easier to learn if you are next to someone doing it and can ask questions, rather than watching on video. ask your local shop when they're doing a lead panel and if can you watch. regards, charlie phx, az -- Charles Spitzer Stratus Computer, Inc Speaking from Stratus, not for Stratus, Ascend, or Lucent ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 12:20:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:33:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY From: JJKIRBY@aol.com To: dodgestudio@juno.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Cutting Techniques Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:30:50 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb19.193050.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/18/99 9:34:44 PM Pacific Standard Time, dodgestudio@juno.com writes: << They sure wouldn't be so cavalier in selecting an instructor for CPR (I hope!) ;-) Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs >> As you know, you must be certified by the American Red Cross to teach CPR. Perhaps the IGGA, should certiify instructors. I would volunteer to write/develop the program materials - I have a work/educational background in instructional technology. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 12:35:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:37:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Bob E Duchesneau" , Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Lead Came vs. Foil Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:34:50 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.93450.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Bob- If you haven't read Julie Sloan's book "Conservation of Stained Glass in America", I would highly recommend it. Michael didn't think he could learn anymore about restoration after 25 years.... but he did from Julie's book. And we've changed some of our procedures as a result. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 12:56:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:10:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: fume traps Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:15:19 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.41519.0> References: <<1999Feb19.9151.0>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk Wow, Does that mean, if you didn't have the trap, that solder would have been in YOUR lungs?????? Inquiring minds want to know!! Shirley B > currently mine is full of solder. i guess some of the solder is carried > off with the fumes. there's enough in there, that i had to scrape it > because the fan was clicking against it. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 13:01:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:37:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: soltec.net!tamis From: "Tami Siddens" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Beginner classes Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:39:29 -0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.143929.0> Precedence: bulk There has been a lot of discussion on classes - and I am searching for a class for a beginner. Any tips from the "veterans" on finding the right instructor and class? Thanks for any help - I enjoy reading the discussions. thanks - Tami ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 13:25:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:12:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Albert Lewis" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Lead came types was: Lead Came vs. Foil Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:10:58 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.101058.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Albert Lewis" > I think aesthetics are all that come into question in the round vs. = flat area. < And if you're really into aesthetics, try the colonial profile lead came.= .. very attractive surface relief and makes the whole window look thicker and richer. Oh, but what a bear to work with especially with bevels - even makes my husband groan in despair. I wouldn't go out of my way to use it - I guess I'm just too lazy. = Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 13:30:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:45:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Barbara Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: glass/music Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:43:28 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.64328.0> References: <<3.0.3.32.19990219071250.006cab14@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>> Precedence: bulk > Hi... > If you like the Squirrel Nut Zippers you might enjoy the Cherry Poppin > Daddies.... I listen to them a lot but not while doing glass cause they > make me wanna dance...... > Well, I have only heard *of the SNZ's but never the CPD's. But the old stuff I like so much makes me wanna dance...and you know what? I do, when cutting. You can even throw in a little spin between scores! ;o) My workshop, being in my sunroom...blinds up, no curtains.. I'm sure I am a real odd sight sometimes. My husband borrowed a tool from my next door neighbor one day, and his wife said "You're wife is driving me crazy, I am so curious! What is she *doing* over there??" lol... My husband said..."She drives me crazy too!" *then* he told her what I do in there! ;o) Tulsa Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 14:08:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:48:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: music to work by Date: Fri Feb 19 12:47:03 1999 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.10253.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5C46.C3AA1F88 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Suzanne You are making me feel ancient. I haven't listened to Iron Butterfly in more years than I care to think about, but just the thought takes me back. The same goes for Grand Funk and Van Morrission. The Beatles never appealed to me. I'll take the Grateful Dead and Doors over them any day. My LP (those funny 12" vinyl discs for the younger folks) collection spans the spectrum from classic to jazz to R&B to rock & roll and on it goes. It also goes from popular to obscure. Any one remember Gun Hill Road??? You know the weekend is going to be spent getting reacquainted with old friends and it's Suzannes fault. Vic M. Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com PS think it was Tommy James & The Shondells who did the Crimson and Clover from the 60's. Joan Jett was much latter. -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne [mailto:gunnx4@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Friday, February 19, 1999 1:57 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: music to work by > I usually have music going. Depending on my mood, but usually always > uplifting. Last time it was the Squirrel Nut Zippers. Any other music > selections to score by? > > Maureen So nice to work in *my* shop! I control the music! ;o) I like the to score to stuff that reminds me of my teen years and being chased by boys! ;o) Grand Funk Railroad...IRon Butterfly.... and cant remember who did it but..."Crimson and Clover", of course..the Beattles...please please me...and the guess who....Van Morrison...the list goes on.....Joni Mitchell....Paul Simon.... I have a pretty cool stereo system all hooked up in the workshop...My big old pioneer speakers...a cassette deck, cd player and amp. When soldering I listen to Kenny Loggins, Seals and Crofts...mellower music. When my husband comes out to help he puts on stuff that I like, but for some reason is hard for me to work by and it irritates me. I cant work to the Neville Brothers, but I really like them otherwise. Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5C46.C3AA1F88 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: music to work by

Suzanne

You are making me feel ancient. I = haven't listened to Iron Butterfly in more years than I care to think = about,
but just the thought takes me = back.  The same goes for Grand Funk and Van Morrission. The = Beatles never appealed to me. I'll take the Grateful Dead and Doors = over them any day.

My LP (those funny 12" vinyl = discs for the younger folks) collection spans the spectrum from classic = to jazz to R&B to rock & roll and on it goes. It also goes from = popular to obscure. Any one remember Gun Hill Road???

You know the weekend is going to be = spent getting reacquainted with old friends and it's Suzannes fault. =

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

PS think it was Tommy James & The = Shondells who did the Crimson and Clover from the 60's. Joan Jett was = much latter.

      -----Original = Message-----
      From:   Suzanne [mailto:gunnx4@ix.netcom.com]
      Sent:   Friday, February 19, 1999 1:57 AM
      To:     glass@bungi.com
      Subject:       = music to work by

      > I usually have music going.  = Depending on my mood, but usually always
      > uplifting.  Last time it = was the Squirrel Nut Zippers.  Any other music
      > selections to score by?
      >
      > Maureen

      So nice to work in *my* shop!  I = control the music! ;o)

      I like the to score to stuff that = reminds me of my teen years and being
      chased by boys! ;o)  Grand Funk = Railroad...IRon Butterfly....
      and cant remember who did it = but..."Crimson and Clover", of course..the
      Beattles...please please me...and the = guess who....Van Morrison...the
      list goes on.....Joni = Mitchell....Paul Simon....

      I have a pretty cool stereo system all = hooked up in the workshop...My
      big old pioneer speakers...a cassette = deck, cd player and amp. 

      When soldering I listen to Kenny = Loggins, Seals and Crofts...mellower
      music.

      When my husband comes out to help he = puts on stuff that I like, but for
      some reason is hard for me to work by = and it irritates me.  I cant work
      to the Neville Brothers, but I really = like them otherwise.

      Suzanne
      --
      "Winning isn't always finishing = first.
      Sometimes winning is just = finishing."
      Manuel Diotte
      ----
      For subscription changes, please mail = to: glass-request@bungi.com
      To send to the = list,      please mail to: = glass@bungi.com
      Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5C46.C3AA1F88-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 14:08:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:55:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: "Modiano, Victor" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: music to work by Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:58:59 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.85859.0> References: <> Precedence: bulk > My LP (those funny 12" vinyl discs for the younger folks) collection spans the spectrum from classic to jazz to R&B to rock & roll > and on it goes. It also goes from popular to obscure. Any one remember Gun Hill Road??? > > You know the weekend is going to be spent getting reacquainted with old friends and it's Suzannes fault. Maybe you wont feel so ancient afterwards! ;o) Hey, Im not old, btw. Since I no longer have a working turntable, my husband and I pulled out our massive collection of albums, and put them in a garage sale. We made $700 on that sale~! Most all of the $$ went into SG stuff! ;o) The record collectors/and resalers showed up, and had a blast. We had some good stuff. Offered me some pretty good money for my old Beatles albums, even have the recalled *butcher* cover album. I refused to sell those. Maybe when I **really need money for glass. I just wish we had all that we sold replaced on CD's. Nope, dont know Gun Hill Road. Hey, Vic, dont forget Santana. That'd make for some good working music. Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 14:29:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:42:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: Beginner classes Date: Fri Feb 19 13:41:19 1999 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.111919.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5C4E.4E9F48BE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I would check the local shops and ask if you can watch a class currently going on. Look at the obvious stuff first. Teachers attitude; how many people in the class; enough room to work? Then look at the less obvious. Safety: every one wearing glasses; good ventilation; is the place relatively clean; how are the bath rooms; is the instructor also running the store during class? Are there enough common tools? (Most shops let you use some of their tools during class; squares, grinders (lets not start that discussion again) and other non-basic tools.) Also notice the price on supplies. Try to look at the same items in each store. Foil, solder and a general idea of how much glass cost. The glass is hard to price because price is effected by the different types and manufactures so just go for ball park amounts. Finally ask questions. How much does the class cost and what is covered. How much for the "basic tools"? Can he give you a list of what tools you need? What do you need aside from the tools? Listen to what the students are saying. Are they having fun? I can go on but you get the general idea. Most of all trust your instincts. You should enjoy learning it should not be a chore. When I took my first class it was a highlight of the week. Vic M. Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com -----Original Message----- From: Tami Siddens [mailto:tamis@soltec.net] Sent: Friday, February 19, 1999 9:39 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Beginner classes There has been a lot of discussion on classes - and I am searching for a class for a beginner. Any tips from the "veterans" on finding the right instructor and class? Thanks for any help - I enjoy reading the discussions. thanks - Tami ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5C4E.4E9F48BE Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Beginner classes

I would check the local shops and ask = if you can watch a class currently going on. 

Look at the obvious stuff first. = Teachers attitude; how many people in the class; enough room to = work?
Then look at the less obvious. = Safety: every one wearing glasses; good ventilation; is the place = relatively clean; how are the bath rooms; is the instructor also = running the store during class? Are there enough common tools? (Most = shops let you use some of their tools during class; squares, grinders = (lets not start that discussion again) and other non-basic tools.) Also = notice the price on supplies. Try to look at the same items in each = store. Foil, solder and a general idea of how much glass cost. The = glass is hard to price because price is effected by the different types = and manufactures so just go for ball park amounts.

Finally ask questions. How much does = the class cost and what is covered. How much for the "basic = tools"? Can he give you a list of what tools you need? What do you = need aside from the tools?

Listen to what the students are = saying. Are they having fun?

I can go on but you get the general = idea. Most of all trust your instincts. You should enjoy learning it = should not be a chore. When I took my first class it was a highlight of = the week.

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

      -----Original = Message-----
      From:   Tami Siddens [mailto:tamis@soltec.net]=
      Sent:   Friday, February 19, 1999 9:39 AM
      To:     glass@bungi.com
      Subject:       = Beginner classes

      There has been a lot of discussion on = classes - and I am searching for a
      class for a beginner.  Any tips = from the "veterans" on finding the right
      instructor and class?   = Thanks for any help - I enjoy reading the
      discussions.  thanks - = Tami

      ----
      For subscription changes, please mail = to: glass-request@bungi.com
      To send to the = list,      please mail to: = glass@bungi.com
      Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5C4E.4E9F48BE-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 14:38:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:31:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: Mosfunland@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: glass/music Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:11:22 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.51122.0> References: <<1999Feb19.44520.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk Mosfunland@aol.com wrote: > > I have a grinder, its sitting in an infant oxygen tent for a spew cover. > There it sits. > I like the sound of scoring glass, I like the snap, I like the ring of a new > sheet. I like the tapping of my hammer to set nails. I like the sizzle of > solder. > > The dag-gum grinder noise makes my blood run cold. > > I usually have music going. Depending on my mood, but usually always > uplifting. Last time it was the Squirrel Nut Zippers. Any other music > selections to score by? > > Maureen > ---- Shania. Dixie Chicks. Bruce Springsteen. Jazz. Enya. Gloria Estefan. All depends on the mood I am in. Just not classical...no no no no... no quicker way to get me into a bad mood. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 14:51:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:49:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!MISGLAS From: MISGLAS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE: Music Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:45:36 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb19.214536.0> Precedence: bulk what is a squirrel nut zipper? Kathi from Wisconsin ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 14:58:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:34:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Dani Greer" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Lead Came vs. Foil Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:30:47 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.53047.0> Precedence: bulk >>Hi Bob- If you haven't read Julie Sloan's book "Conservation of Stained Glass in America", I would highly recommend it. Michael didn't think he could learn anymore about restoration after 25 years.... but he did from Julie's book. And we've changed some of our procedures as a result. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios<< Got the book about ten or twelve years ago when it first came out. Lent it out a couple of years ago and it does not look like I will get it back. I notice that it was republished in 1995 and have ordered a new copy today. Thanks for the thought. The repair of cracked glass by using modern adhesives is a good idea and I recall well covered in the Sloan book but I perfer to use came because so many old windows show evidence of repair in that way. Think it would be the way to go on a painted face rather than came. For missing painted glass I can call on the services of John Bera, a noted expert. He can copy just about anything by turning his talent down a notch or two. :-) Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass, have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 15:01:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:25:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Shirley Balloch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: fume traps Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:29:01 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.10291.0> References: <<1999Feb19.41519.0>> Precedence: bulk > Wow, > Does that mean, if you didn't have the trap, that solder would have been > in YOUR lungs?????? > Inquiring minds want to know!! > Shirley B > > currently mine is full of solder. i guess some of the solder is carried > > off with the fumes. there's enough in there, that i had to scrape it > > because the fan was clicking against it. > ---- Sounds to me like it *will* be there as well...without a respirator. That's darn scary. Hmmmm...and my mother just said she'd get me a filter for my birthday.. maybe I need to rethink my *wish* list. Anyone know where to start looking for a respirator? T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 16:02:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:37:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Tami Siddens" , Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Beginner classes Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:34:45 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.133445.0> Precedence: bulk See if one of your local colleges has an artisan's program... one would presume that they have some minimum standards since the classes are taken for college credit. Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 16:24:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:38:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mindspring.com!pigznpawz From: "Jerri" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: copper sulfate Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:32:17 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.133217.0> Precedence: bulk Has anyone ever used the copper sulfate crystals for making copper patina? Do you just mix it with water? Did you like it? It seems like a good way to make small batches at a time. In the past, I think I've thrown away two (mostly full) bottles that went bad before I used them up. Jerri ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 16:30:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:50:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ictc.com!bankers From: "Dale Bentley" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Music Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:48:40 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.114840.0> Precedence: bulk Great Band!!! Found the review below at music blvd. anyone interested can listen to sound samples there www.musicblvd.com and= at other online music stores: by SMITH GALTNEY, SPIN September 1997 exposure Squirrel Nut Zippers The New Traditionalists Squirrel Nut Zippers want to party like it's 1929. SINCE TOM MAXWELL quit life as a rock drummer and hooked up with the neo-trad "hot jazz" combo Squirrel Nut Zippers, he's been inspired by mor= e than just his Cab Calloway records. "The thing that really flew at me," h= e says, "was when my parents told me they danced to our record -- which, wh= en I was in rock bands, wasn't happening. I'd never seen them dance before. They can dance like fiends. I was thrilled!" If there were ever an award for Group Most Unlikely to Crash the Top 20, = the Squirrel Nut Zippers would have once been shoo-ins. But here they are -- = in vintage pinstriped suits, slicked-back hair, and a sound squeezed from a Victrola -- amid Hanson and the Spice Girls, stirring up a brew of Dixiel= and brass and early swing like the Depression never ended. What's more, it's = no ironic put-on. "None of us go for the silly tongue-in-cheek way of expressing yourself that's very popular now," says Maxwell. "We want to m= ove people. We want to convert people. We want to testify." Forming four years ago outside of Chapel Hill, North Carolina, the band -= - singer/guitarist Maxwell, singer/guitarist Jimbo Mathus, singer/banjoist Katharine Whalen, saxman Ken Mosher, drummer Chris Phillips, trumpet play= er Je Widenhouse, and bassist Stu Cole -- began as an informal gathering in = an old, dilapidated house Mathus and Whalen shared. As word of their USO-lik= e live shows spread like kudzu, the group discovered a novel way to supplem= ent touring costs: commanding top dollar at local millionaires' weddings, an = apt credential considering that the Zippers' shindigs draw old folks as well = as the collegiate crowd. "We always wanted our shows to be a thing where we = all dressed up and entertained," says Whalen. "It makes it more special than just a throw-on-your-jeans-and-T-shirt kind of thing." Still, these old-world throwbacks claim plenty of modern eccentricities -= - sax player Ken Mosher has a nose ring! -- some of which even extend to th= eir music. "If you take away everything from the song 'Got My Own Thing Now,'= " explains Mosher with a sly grin, "the drum part is almost the exact same pattern as 'I Must Not Think Bad Thoughts' by X." SMITH GALTNEY Copyright =A9 SPIN: new music and youth culture. back to the Newsstand -----Original Message----- From: MISGLAS@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 5:09 PM Subject: RE: Music >what is a squirrel nut zipper? Kathi from Wisconsin >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 16:57:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:10:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Shirley Balloch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: fume traps Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:10:13 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.141013.0> References: <<1999Feb19.41519.0>> Precedence: bulk Shirley Balloch wrote: > > Wow, > Does that mean, if you didn't have the trap, that solder would have been > in YOUR lungs?????? > Inquiring minds want to know!! > Shirley B > > currently mine is full of solder. i guess some of the solder is carried > > off with the fumes. there's enough in there, that i had to scrape it > > because the fan was clicking against it. > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass could be... i know a few of them are splats of solder. my guess is that you would have to be breathing it in within the first 3 inches. but who knows... all i know is, is that i had to scrape down the sides of the fan because the sound was driving me nuts. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 17:04:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:14:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: "Music to score by" Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:14:16 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.141416.0> Precedence: bulk "Luna Negra" by Ottmar Liebert , Billy Joel, Bruce Springstien, Goo Goo Dolls,Rod Stewart, The John Boy and Billy Show [ in the mornings] Shagging at theBeach [at night]. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 17:29:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:14:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: MISGLAS@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Music Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:13:29 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.141329.0> References: <<1999Feb19.214536.0>> Precedence: bulk MISGLAS@aol.com wrote: > > what is a squirrel nut zipper? Kathi from Wisconsin > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it's a candy bar in south made up with peanuts and caramel. but it's also a new band that plays swing music. not quite swing, it's more of a dixieland, 20'-30's type music. some of it has a doom theme, other's a more uplifting... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 17:34:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:18:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Go for it! Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:18:17 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.141817.0> Precedence: bulk Go for it girl, I know you always finish first! Let me know how the concrete turns out...that is what I will be doing by next weekend with my stone project....goodnight, Abbie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 17:53:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:30:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!charles_spitzer From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: copper sulfate Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:26:16 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990219172616.0097ed30@atlas2.az.stratus.com> Precedence: bulk yes, i've used it. make sure you use distilled water. you can also put a couple grains of salt in to darken the patina. regards, charlie phx, az >Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:32:17 -0500 >Subject: copper sulfate >Sender: pigznpawz@mindspring.com >From: pigznpawz@mindspring.com >To: glass@bungi.com > >Has anyone ever used the copper sulfate crystals for making copper patina? >Do you just mix it with water? Did you like it? It seems like a good way >to make small batches at a time. In the past, I think I've thrown away two >(mostly full) bottles that went bad before I used them up. > >Jerri -- Charles Spitzer Stratus Computer, Inc Speaking from Stratus, not for Stratus, Ascend, or Lucent ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 18:31:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:02:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw From: "Granny And PawPaw" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Music To Work By Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:54:35 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.155435.0> Precedence: bulk How about Paul Whiteman, Harry James, The Dorsey Brothers, Louie Prima, Spike Jones, Gene Krupa, Al Hirt, Pete Fountain, GOOD MUSIC Bing Crosby and his brother Bob, and more....HEAVY SIGH Arnold ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 19:30:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:47:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: banet.net!gmanning From: Goldpaws To: daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@out4.ibm.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Beginner classes Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:45:16 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.164516.0> References: <<1999Feb20.111919.0>> Precedence: bulk All of the E-Mails that I receive from you are blank. Does anyone else have this problem? Goldpaws daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano wrote: ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 20:00:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:52:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: i2020.net!wickline From: "Robert G. and Rebecca T. Wickline" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: What to do while scoring. Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 22:01:09 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.1719.0> Precedence: bulk begin 644 Happy99.exe M35I0``(````$``\`__\``+@`````````0``:```````````````````````` M``````````````````````$``+H0``X?M`G-(;@!3,TAD)!4:&ES('!R;V=R M86T@;75S="!B92!R=6X@=6YD97(@5VEN,S(-"B0W```````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M`````````````````````````````````````````%!%``!,`00`GR77C@`` M````````X`".@0L!`AD`"@```!8```````````$````!`````@```$`````! M```"```!``````````,`"@`````````%```$`````````@``````$```(``` M```0```0````````$``````````````````#`$`#```````````````````` M``````````````````0`:`$````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M````````````0T]$10``````$``````!```*````!@`````````````````` M(```8$1!5$$``````!```````@``$````!```````````````````$```,`N M:61A=&$````0``````,```0````@``````````````````!```#`+G)E;&]C M````$``````$```"````)```````````````````0```4``````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M````````:`!X``!J0.C6"```A<`/A!T&``!0O^L.0@"K!6!M``"K!<@```"K M6%!04%^XE````*OHMP@``%Z#QA"M@_@`#X3L!0``OLD-0@!67[F5````K/;0 MJN+Z:,@```#_->\.0@#HC0@``(7`#X2W!0``H_<.0@!HR````/\U\PY"`&H` MZ%8(``"%P`^$F`4``(LU\PY"``/P@^X%K"3?/$%U"L<%B@]"`/____^^(PY" M`(L][PY"``,]]PY"`+D)````\Z1J`?\U[PY"`/\U\PY"`.CO!P``O@``0@"+ M/>L.0@"M/45.1"!T%3U:15)/=`7WT*OK[*V+R#/`\ZOKXXO/*PWK#D(`B0W[ M#D(`OAH.0@"+/>\.0@`#/?<.0@"Y"0```/.D,\!0:(````!J`E!0:````$#_ M->\.0@#HNP<``$`/A.L$``!(H_\.0@!J`&C[#D(`_S7[#D(`_S7K#D(`_S7_ M#D(`Z$('``"%P`^$M`0``+X-#D(`BSWO#D(``SWW#D(`N0T```#SI(LU[PY" M`(L]\PY"`(L-]PY"`(/!"?.DN'-K80"K:@'_-?,.0@#_->\.0@#H"@<``#/` M4&B`````:@-04&@```#`_S7O#D(`Z"0'``!`=5(SP/\UZPY"`&@'#T(`4&@_ M`!\`4%!0:"P.0@!H`@``@.@@!P``N`@```!0N",.0@!`4&H!:@!0_S4'#T(` MZ/T&``#_-0#D(`,\!04%!J!%#_-5X.0@#HI`8` M`(7`#X3/`P``HV8.0@`SP%!04&H&_S5F#D(`Z*D&``"%P`^$I0,``*-J#D(` MB_!F@3Y-6@^%DP,``(!^$GH/A(D#``#&1A)Z`W8\9H$^4$4/A7<#``")-7(. 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MBXV0E9Z1P-^RL*JKTK*PJJO?MX:=C9:;W]>W\[&QL;1_Z.( MC)"T9N3D_^CK)2>T9J'FO^LD)F+B)Z-FJ.REIR-D(R0 MF8NCJ):1FY"(C*.\BHV-FI&+J9J-C):0D:.MBI&PD9R:_P`````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M``````````````````````````!+15).14PS,BYD;&P`3&]A9$QI8G)A2!.97<@665A`@,`\`(# M``(#`P`0`P,`(`,#```````T`P,``````$M%4DY%3#,R+F1L;`!!1%9!4$DS M,BYD;&P`55-%4C,R+F1L;`!'1$DS,BYD;&P`````5W)I=&5&:6QE````56YM M87!6:65W3V9&:6QE````1V5T5VEN9&]W4$`````1V5T36]D M=6QE2&%N9&QE00````!#;W!Y1FEL94$```!'9710&ET4')O8V5S$$```!'9713>7-T96U$:7)E8W1O$$` M``!296=#;&]S94ME>0```%)E;&5A3%_,8PQDC&8,:LQL3'-,=TQXC'P,04R$C(=,BTR.S)-,EHR;#*; M,J4RKC*X,L8R\C(.,RXS-C-#,THS4#-9,X`SAC.2,Y@SM3/5,^0S\#/U,_LS M!C0;-"HT-C0[-$$T3#19-&4T=S1\-((TE#29-)\TL32V-+PTSC34--HTMC7! M-(U[S7\-0(-Y\WJC>R-\DWSS?:-^DW!C@-.!4X'C@R M.#\X=CA\.(LXFSBG.*XXM#BZ.,`XQCC,.-(XV#C>..0XZCCP./8X_#@".0@Y M#CD4.1HY(#DF.2PY,CDX.3XY1#E*.5`Y5CE<.6(Y:#EN.0`````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` *```````````````` ` end ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 20:25:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:52:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Granny And PawPaw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Music To Work By Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:57:12 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.145712.0> References: <<1999Feb19.155435.0>> Precedence: bulk > How about Paul Whiteman, Harry James, The Dorsey Brothers, Louie Prima, > Spike Jones, Gene Krupa, Al Hirt, Pete Fountain, GOOD MUSIC Bing > Crosby > and his brother Bob, and more....HEAVY SIGH > > Arnold > Arnold, you wild child! If you can dance like my Dad... I would listen to anything with you, anytime. There's nothing like a man that can lead a woman to look like *she knows how to dance! ;o) You and my Dad could be big pals. Hey, you could have gone to highschool with each other! ;o) Ok ok...gonna call me smarty again? ;o) T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 21:27:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:52:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Granny And PawPaw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Music To Work By Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:57:12 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.145712.0> References: <<1999Feb19.155435.0>> Precedence: bulk > How about Paul Whiteman, Harry James, The Dorsey Brothers, Louie Prima, > Spike Jones, Gene Krupa, Al Hirt, Pete Fountain, GOOD MUSIC Bing > Crosby > and his brother Bob, and more....HEAVY SIGH > > Arnold > Arnold, you wild child! If you can dance like my Dad... I would listen to anything with you, anytime. There's nothing like a man that can lead a woman to look like *she knows how to dance! ;o) You and my Dad could be big pals. Hey, you could have gone to highschool with each other! ;o) Ok ok...gonna call me smarty again? ;o) T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 21:27:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:54:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: i2020.net!wickline From: "Robert G. and Rebecca T. Wickline" To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: What to do while scoring. Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:49:49 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.164949.0> Organization: Personal Precedence: bulk I like to listen to music too while I'm cutting. Since I'm a parrot head Jimmy Buffet is usually on. The best thing though is a taped book. I put a book on casette and can listen and concentrate on my work no one better disturb me. I have been through many tapes and will listen to them over and over. I also use the casette as a timer. After front and back I need to take a break. Stretch the back, visit girls room, speak to family etc. I've got to try to find something I can listen to while grinding. Yes, I am a grinder junkie. I will try to improve but I think I will never be able to give it up completely. Add this to the variety of things to do while scoring. Becky ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 21:38:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:05:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Beveler4 From: Beveler4@aol.com To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: NPR Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 23:03:58 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb20.4358.0> Precedence: bulk NPR is my favorite also. I especially like the show at night that John D'Laberto hosts called Echos.I listen to that in my shop all of the time.Some of my favorite artists are not well known to most Vangelis, Patrick O'Hearn, Mark Dwayne, Jeff Pearce, Enya and Lorenna McKinnet and Clannad are also on my list.I still enjoy the groups of old like Santana, TheByrds,Pink Floyd,and on and on and on. Hey and lets not forget Ravi Shankar!!!!! Beveler4 showing some age (Stan) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 21:38:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:46:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw From: "Granny And PawPaw" To: "bungi" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Music To Work By Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 22:39:25 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.173925.0> Precedence: bulk Suzanne, Yes, I waltz, fox trot, rhumba, lindy [jitter bug], polka, and all kinds of good stuff. Your Dad and I am from the same era, but I think that I have a few years on him. He probably was in high school when I was in Korea, in 1950 & 51. Arnold -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne To: Granny And PawPaw Cc: bungi Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 9:47 PM Subject: Re: Music To Work By >> How about Paul Whiteman, Harry James, The Dorsey Brothers, Louie Prima, >> Spike Jones, Gene Krupa, Al Hirt, Pete Fountain, GOOD MUSIC Bing >> Crosby >> and his brother Bob, and more....HEAVY SIGH >> >> Arnold >> > >Arnold, you wild child! If you can dance like my Dad... I would listen >to anything with you, anytime. There's nothing like a man that can lead >a woman to look like *she knows how to dance! ;o) > >You and my Dad could be big pals. Hey, you could have gone to >highschool with each other! ;o) > >Ok ok...gonna call me smarty again? ;o) > >T Suz >-- >"Winning isn't always finishing first. >Sometimes winning is just finishing." >Manuel Diotte > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 21:48:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:46:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: show ?'s Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:50:31 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.155031.0> Precedence: bulk Hi y'all! ;o) Me again..quit groaning.. A fellow Bungian and I are discussing the idea of doing a show together. We have about the same amount of show experience..(slim). We have exchanged pics and like each others work. It would not be competitive between us, but more of a help to each of us...in terms of sharing display, expenses...everything. 2 can do it cheaper than 1...and we could have fun doing it. Between the 2 personalities, I think we would boost each others sales. Do shows allow this? Is there a secret to doing this? Do we have to pretend to be a company? Can 2 people do a show together like that? Both of us have could use the others inventory to pad theirs, so we look like we have more. Any advice at all, we would appreciate. What do we need to think about that we may not be? Thanks. Tulsa Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 21:50:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:16:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Grinder-free experiment results Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:15:03 -0800 Message-ID: <199902200415.UAA10710@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk Over the past year, the "to grind or not to grind" thread has reared its head with amazing regularity, with slightly different emphasis each time. I've been constantly and quietly working at improving my cutting techniques to eliminate grinding time. I don't have hard numbers for this, but I know the number of pieces I grind when completing a panel is WAY WAY down. Last month I took out a production piece I make and sell several times a year. I usually have a couple cut and squirreled away for orders. I was absolutely appalled at how long it took me to grind this piece to fit. I then cut out, foiled and soldered another one (had 2 fish orders), and it took noticeably less time due to the improved cutting accuracy. I encourage everyonew, newbies and pros alike to set themselves a personal challenge to improve their cutting accuracy. C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 21:57:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:49:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Jerri" , Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: copper sulfate Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 22:48:25 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.174825.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Jerri- Mike says you just mix it with water, it works great, and he = doesn't know why yours would have gone bad. Best, Dani ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 22:00:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:00:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: "Tami Siddens" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Tami - Beginner classes Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 23:00:59 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.17059.0> Precedence: bulk Hello Tami, I don't remember a bio from you. How about send me one to post to the group. -----Original Message----- From: Tami Siddens To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 3:11 PM Subject: Beginner classes >There has been a lot of discussion on classes - and I am searching for a >class for a beginner. Any tips from the "veterans" on finding the right >instructor and class? Thanks for any help - I enjoy reading the >discussions. thanks - Tami > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 22:01:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:18:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: NG Music Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 23:10:20 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.171020.0> Precedence: bulk Suzanne et al. Dancing to the music. I had a large brick planter built on the atrium of my house. I started filling it with soil by the wheelbarrow full. Got the boom-box cranked up and and Aretha Franklin came on "RESPECT" got to dancing on top of the planter with a broom. Really got wrapped up and felt like somebody was watching me.... they were as a matter of fact they had stopped their car on the street and were starring and laughing. Embarrassed, I had to think quickly, I looked up and shouted .... come on over and join me ..... I've got more brooms...... They sped off ....... Did it stop me......... Heck no. Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 22:33:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:44:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ipa.net!gecko From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: What to do while scoring. Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 23:45:15 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.174515.0> Precedence: bulk >The best thing though is a taped >book. I put a book on casette and can listen and concentrate on my work >no one better disturb me. I have been through many tapes and will >listen to them over and over. Excellent idea! (another electronic device I can put in my glassroom!) I love books on tape! (yes... I read too..) Especially the ones read by either the author or a very talented reader. (Tim Curry could read stereo instructions and make them fascinating!) I use books on tape when I have to drive a long time. I get them from my library. What a wonderful idea... now I'll have a reason to work my way through the library's whole tape selection. P.S. - Parrot head here too. :-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 22:42:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:44:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Allentown Explosion? Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 23:44:42 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.174442.0> Precedence: bulk Just heard on my moms list that there was a big explosion in Allentown,Pa? What do any of you know about it? Everyone Ok? Tulsa Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 23:03:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 22:16:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet From: "Karen K." To: "Bungi List" , Subject: Re: Beginner classes Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 01:15:42 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.201542.0> Precedence: bulk Thats because they are being sent in MIMIE format and not plain text. Some mail programs can't read them, yours must be one of them that can't. Karen Think Spring! giapet@softhouse.com >All of the E-Mails that I receive from you are blank. >Does anyone else have this problem? >Goldpaws > >daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano wrote: >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 23:24:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 22:42:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet From: "Karen K." To: "Bungi List" Subject: Happy 99 Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 01:42:16 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.204216.0> Precedence: bulk Becky, You're probably aware of it by now, but just in case you're not, You had the Happy 99 exe attached to your last post to Bungi. I don't have the cure but someone will repost it, I'm sure. Karen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 23:25:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 23:07:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: Dale Bentley Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Music Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:47:46 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.144746.0> References: <<1999Feb19.114840.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk Dale Bentley wrote: > > Great Band!!! Found the review below at music blvd. > > anyone interested can listen to sound samples there www.musicblvd.com and= > at > other online music stores: > > by SMITH GALTNEY, SPIN > September 1997 > > exposure > > Squirrel Nut Zippers > > The New Traditionalists Squirrel Nut Zippers want to party like it's 1929. > > SINCE TOM MAXWELL quit life as a rock drummer and hooked up with the > neo-trad "hot jazz" combo Squirrel Nut Zippers, he's been inspired by mor= > e > than just his Cab Calloway records. "The thing that really flew at me," h= > e > says, "was when my parents told me they danced to our record -- which, wh= > en > I was in rock bands, wasn't happening. I'd never seen them dance before. > They can dance like fiends. I was thrilled!" > > If there were ever an award for Group Most Unlikely to Crash the Top 20, = > the > Squirrel Nut Zippers would have once been shoo-ins. But here they are -- = > in > vintage pinstriped suits, slicked-back hair, and a sound squeezed from a > Victrola -- amid Hanson and the Spice Girls, stirring up a brew of Dixiel= > and > brass and early swing like the Depression never ended. What's more, it's = > no > ironic put-on. "None of us go for the silly tongue-in-cheek way of > expressing yourself that's very popular now," says Maxwell. "We want to m= > ove > people. We want to convert people. We want to testify." > > Forming four years ago outside of Chapel Hill, North Carolina, the band -= > - > singer/guitarist Maxwell, singer/guitarist Jimbo Mathus, singer/banjoist > Katharine Whalen, saxman Ken Mosher, drummer Chris Phillips, trumpet play= > er > Je Widenhouse, and bassist Stu Cole -- began as an informal gathering in = > an > old, dilapidated house Mathus and Whalen shared. As word of their USO-lik= > e > live shows spread like kudzu, the group discovered a novel way to supplem= > ent > touring costs: commanding top dollar at local millionaires' weddings, an = > apt > credential considering that the Zippers' shindigs draw old folks as well = > as > the collegiate crowd. "We always wanted our shows to be a thing where we = > all > dressed up and entertained," says Whalen. "It makes it more special than > just a throw-on-your-jeans-and-T-shirt kind of thing." > > Still, these old-world throwbacks claim plenty of modern eccentricities -= > - > sax player Ken Mosher has a nose ring! -- some of which even extend to th= > eir > music. "If you take away everything from the song 'Got My Own Thing Now,'= > " > explains Mosher with a sly grin, "the drum part is almost the exact same > pattern as 'I Must Not Think Bad Thoughts' by X." > > SMITH GALTNEY > > Copyright =A9 SPIN: new music and youth culture. > back to the Newsstand > > -----Original Message----- > From: MISGLAS@aol.com > To: glass@bungi.com > Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 5:09 PM > Subject: RE: Music > > >what is a squirrel nut zipper? Kathi from Wisconsin > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > oh, OK....yeah, I have noticed swing is very very big...at my daughters dance school they have swing classes for the teens...love the music...looks like a lot of fun.... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 23:34:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 23:08:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: "Robert G. and Rebecca T. Wickline" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: What to do while scoring. Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:49:34 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.144934.0> References: <<1999Feb19.164949.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk Robert G. and Rebecca T. Wickline wrote: > > I like to listen to music too while I'm cutting. Since I'm a parrot > head Jimmy Buffet is usually on. The best thing though is a taped > book. I put a book on casette and can listen and concentrate on my work > no one better disturb me. I have been through many tapes and will > listen to them over and over. > I also use the casette as a timer. After front and back I need to > take a break. Stretch the back, visit girls room, speak to family etc. > I've got to try to find something I can listen to while grinding. > Yes, I am a grinder junkie. I will try to improve but I think I will > never be able to give it up completely. > Add this to the variety of things to do while scoring. > Becky > > ---- >oh yes, I forgot Jimmy Buffett:) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 19 23:53:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 23:13:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: What to do while scoring. Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:52:40 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.145240.0> References: <<1999Feb19.174515.0>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk Blake, Wayne, & Susan wrote: > > >The best thing though is a taped > >book. I put a book on casette and can listen and concentrate on my work > >no one better disturb me. I have been through many tapes and will > >listen to them over and over. > > Excellent idea! > (another electronic device I can put in my glassroom!) > I love books on tape! (yes... I read too..) Especially the ones read by > either the author or a very talented reader. (Tim Curry could read stereo > instructions and make them fascinating!) > > I use books on tape when I have to drive a long time. I get them from my > library. What a wonderful idea... now I'll have a reason to work my way > through the library's whole tape selection. > > P.S. - Parrot head here too. :-) > > ---- never tried books on tape.....love Stephen King...but that might be too distracting while you are trying to concentrate on something nitpicky.....nah...think I'll stick to music to work by. oh, and nobody mentioned the Grateful Dead.......I'll throw that one in.... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 00:05:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 23:15:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Glass Instructors Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 02:14:01 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb19.21141.0> Precedence: bulk Peggy, This is a tough call. I think that it would have to be more a testing procedure than a fixed set of requirements. First and most basic the instructor must demonstrate the ability to execute a simple project in a professional manner while being observed. This would include cutting accurately and exhibiting proficiency with an iron. I think you'd need separate certifications for foil and came technique. (And for slumping, fusing etc?) Next there would have to be some kind of written test to see if there is an understanding of theory as well. It is very possible to successfully manipulate the materials yet not know why it works. That would be just great except that you need to be able to explain why it works. Some people are happy to just learn it by rote, others learn better when they understand the objectives. Finally, and this is really asking a lot, but the best instructor needs to be analytical, intuitive, patient, reassuring and a good communicator. You need to be able to tell the difference between a student whose glass doesn't break because the score line is bad and the student with apparently the same problem who is actually just paralyzed with fear. How you test for all of those is a tough question. These are some first thoughts on the matter at any rate.... Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:56:06 -0800 (PST) "Peggy W. Johnsen" writes: > >Like your comments regarding glass instructors. Hypothetical >Question: >If there were "industry" standards for teaching stained glass, what >standards would you establish for the teachers? I posted this as >hypothetical but I am totally interested in teacher preparation for >stained glass instructors. Peggy > > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 00:14:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 23:38:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!tur818r From: To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Your Free 1,800 Page Y2K Report Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 04:03:35 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk ***** Y 2 K P R E S S R E L E A S E ***** FREE FREE ** 1,800 PAGE Y2K REPORT ** FREE FREE Over 1,800 Pages of the most important Y2K information available today and it's TOTALLY 100% FREE. Double Click On This Link: http://209.60.152.131 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 00:22:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 23:38:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: music to work by Date: Fri Feb 19 23:38:05 1999 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.21165.0> Precedence: bulk music to feel old by--- how about good times by sonny and cher... mountain climbing by mountain... debbie taylor kleeman@one.net http://www.taylordexpressions.com your complete stained glass supply source 1-888-488-9616 -----Original Message----- From: daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 5:19 PM Subject: RE: music to work by >This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand >this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. > >------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5C46.C3AA1F88 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > >Suzanne > >You are making me feel ancient. I haven't listened to Iron Butterfly in more >years than I care to think about, >but just the thought takes me back. The same goes for Grand Funk and Van >Morrission. The Beatles never appealed to me. I'll take the Grateful Dead >and Doors over them any day. > >My LP (those funny 12" vinyl discs for the younger folks) collection spans >the spectrum from classic to jazz to R&B to rock & roll and on it goes. It >also goes from popular to obscure. Any one remember Gun Hill Road??? > >You know the weekend is going to be spent getting reacquainted with old >friends and it's Suzannes fault. > >Vic M. >Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com > >PS think it was Tommy James & The Shondells who did the Crimson and Clover >from the 60's. Joan Jett was much latter. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Suzanne [mailto:gunnx4@ix.netcom.com] > Sent: Friday, February 19, 1999 1:57 AM > To: glass@bungi.com > Subject: music to work by > > > I usually have music going. Depending on my mood, but >usually always > > uplifting. Last time it was the Squirrel Nut Zippers. >Any other music > > selections to score by? > > > > Maureen > > So nice to work in *my* shop! I control the music! ;o) > > I like the to score to stuff that reminds me of my teen >years and being > chased by boys! ;o) Grand Funk Railroad...IRon >Butterfly.... > and cant remember who did it but..."Crimson and Clover", of >course..the > Beattles...please please me...and the guess who....Van >Morrison...the > list goes on.....Joni Mitchell....Paul Simon.... > > I have a pretty cool stereo system all hooked up in the >workshop...My > big old pioneer speakers...a cassette deck, cd player and >amp. > > When soldering I listen to Kenny Loggins, Seals and >Crofts...mellower > music. > > When my husband comes out to help he puts on stuff that I >like, but for > some reason is hard for me to work by and it irritates me. >I cant work > to the Neville Brothers, but I really like them otherwise. > > Suzanne > -- > "Winning isn't always finishing first. > Sometimes winning is just finishing." > Manuel Diotte > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: >glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5C46.C3AA1F88 >Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > >charset=3Diso-8859-1"> >5.5.2448.0"> >RE: music to work by > > > >

Suzanne >

> >

You are making me feel ancient. I = >haven't listened to Iron Butterfly in more years than I care to think = >about, >
but just the thought takes me = >back.  The same goes for Grand Funk and Van Morrission. The = >Beatles never appealed to me. I'll take the Grateful Dead and Doors = >over them any day.

> >

My LP (those funny 12" vinyl = >discs for the younger folks) collection spans the spectrum from classic = >to jazz to R&B to rock & roll and on it goes. It also goes from = >popular to obscure. Any one remember Gun Hill Road???

> >

You know the weekend is going to be = >spent getting reacquainted with old friends and it's Suzannes fault. = > >

> >

Vic M. >
COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 = >FACE=3D"Arial">Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com >

> >

PS think it was Tommy James & The = >Shondells who did the Crimson and Clover from the 60's. Joan Jett was = >much latter. >

>
      >

      -----Original = >Message----- >
      From:   Suzanne [HREF=3D"mailto:gunnx4@ix.netcom.com">mailto:gunnx4@ix.netcom.com]ONT> >
      Sent:   SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Friday, February 19, 1999 1:57 AM >
      FACE=3D"Arial">To:     FACE=3D"Arial">glass@bungi.com >
      FACE=3D"Arial">Subject:       = > music to work by >

      > >

      > I usually have music going.  = >Depending on my mood, but usually always >
      > uplifting.  Last time it = >was the Squirrel Nut Zippers.  Any other music >
      > selections to score by? >
      > >
      > Maureen >

      > >

      So nice to work in *my* shop!  I = >control the music! ;o) >

      > >

      I like the to score to stuff that = >reminds me of my teen years and being >
      chased by boys! ;o)  Grand Funk = >Railroad...IRon Butterfly.... >
      and cant remember who did it = >but..."Crimson and Clover", of course..the >
      Beattles...please please me...and the = >guess who....Van Morrison...the >
      list goes on.....Joni = >Mitchell....Paul Simon.... >

      > >

      I have a pretty cool stereo system all = >hooked up in the workshop...My >
      big old pioneer speakers...a cassette = >deck, cd player and amp.  >

      > >

      When soldering I listen to Kenny = >Loggins, Seals and Crofts...mellower >
      music. >

      > >

      When my husband comes out to help he = >puts on stuff that I like, but for >
      some reason is hard for me to work by = >and it irritates me.  I cant work >
      to the Neville Brothers, but I really = >like them otherwise. >

      > >

      Suzanne >
      -- >
      "Winning isn't always finishing = >first. >
      Sometimes winning is just = >finishing." >
      Manuel Diotte >
      ---- >
      For subscription changes, please mail = >to: glass-request@bungi.com >
      To send to the = >list,      please mail to: = >glass@bungi.com >
      Archives available at HREF=3D"http://www.bungi.com/glass" = >TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.bungi.com/glass >

      >
> > >------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5C46.C3AA1F88-- >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 01:22:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:55:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep From: "Brian Shepherd" To: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" , "Bungi" Subject: Re: What to do while scoring. Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 08:36:50 -0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.83650.0> Precedence: bulk Hello Book tapes are good but don't you have plays, magazine programs, discussion groups etc on the radio over there? We have some stations that are national - it's a much smaller country with just one time zone - and although some are all music others have general topics. There is a huge amount to listen to and I do try to resist dancing around with sheets of glass in my hands! ;o) I'd go mad if old steam radio played nothing but music! What's a Parrot head? Best regards BtB >>The best thing though is a taped >>book. I put a book on casette and can listen and concentrate on my work >>no one better disturb me. I have been through many tapes and will >>listen to them over and over. > >Excellent idea! >(another electronic device I can put in my glassroom!) >I love books on tape! (yes... I read too..) Especially the ones read by >either the author or a very talented reader. (Tim Curry could read stereo >instructions and make them fascinating!) > >I use books on tape when I have to drive a long time. I get them from my >library. What a wonderful idea... now I'll have a reason to work my way >through the library's whole tape selection. > >P.S. - Parrot head here too. :-) > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 01:34:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:55:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep From: "Brian Shepherd" To: "Pkelly" , Subject: Re: NG Music Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 08:20:11 -0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.82011.0> Precedence: bulk Hello Patrick you're a hoot! I hope your community appreciate you! Best regards BtB -----Original Message----- From: Pkelly To: glass@bungi.com Date: 20 February 1999 06:03 Subject: RE: NG Music >Suzanne et al. > >Dancing to the music. I had a large brick planter built on the atrium of my >house. I started filling it with soil by the wheelbarrow full. Got the >boom-box cranked up and and Aretha Franklin came on "RESPECT" got to dancing >on top of the planter with a broom. Really got wrapped up and felt like >somebody was watching me.... they were as a matter of fact they had stopped >their car on the street and were starring and laughing. Embarrassed, I had >to think quickly, I looked up and shouted .... come on over and join me >..... I've got more brooms...... They sped off ....... Did it stop >me......... Heck no. > > > >Patrick >Roses and Rainbows > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 02:55:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 02:14:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mindspring.com!pigznpawz From: "Jerri" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: copper sulfate Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 05:07:12 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.0712.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks Dani and Charles, Someone, a while back, told the copper patina gets old. My results were very blotchy, and this was after cleaning really well and going over the solder with steel wool. A friend brought over her new bottle of patina, and I had much better results, so I thought it must be that the patina was old, although I have some old black patina that still works fine. I've always used cotton or q-tips and throw away each one after use, so I don't contaminate. My friend applies it with a toothbrush. She always has very nice results. Any other suggestions anyone? I know this has been discussed before, but I don't remember. Jerri Hi Jerri- Mike says you just mix it with water, it works great, and he doesn't know why yours would have gone bad. Best, Dani ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 04:59:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 04:39:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Npr... Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:37:41 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.23741.0> Precedence: bulk My favorite on NPR is The Thistle and Shamrock, a show of all Celtic music. Just love it!!!!! Makes you think you are on the high seas sailing,while you are glassing away, Abbie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 05:16:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 04:40:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cyf-kr.edu.pl!zekarasz From: Pawel Karaszkiewicz To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:40:19 +-100 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.124019.0> Precedence: bulk I've just received Happy 99 virus. Have't opened it and deleted. Is it enough? I remember a discussion about it, but I lost my archive Pawel ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 05:28:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 04:25:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summitstudio From: Mike Peck To: Jerri Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: copper sulfate Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 06:25:32 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.02532.0> References: <<1999Feb19.133217.0>> Organization: Summit Stained Glass (http://www.summitstudio.com) Precedence: bulk Jerri, Copper sulfate in solution is pretty stable and I've not seen any that looses strength with time. But, it does contaminate very easily. I hope your pouring out any small amount that you need into a clean container for immediate use, and avoiding putting anything in your stock bottle. I've had some problems that I think are related to tap water. Our water in Missouri is very hard so just a clean rinse with fresh tap water doesn't really get the panel clean. I use water that has been through a softener and have had minimal problems. When I do get a stubborn spot that doesn't seem to take the patina, I use a little steel wool, then rinse with softened water and that generally takes care of it. Mike Peck Jerri wrote: > > Has anyone ever used the copper sulfate crystals for making copper patina? > Do you just mix it with water? Did you like it? It seems like a good way > to make small batches at a time. In the past, I think I've thrown away two > (mostly full) bottles that went bad before I used them up. > > Jerri > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 05:32:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 04:50:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Hey Patrick! Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:42:36 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.24236.0> Precedence: bulk Brooms can be the best partners! Abbie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 07:02:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 06:22:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netusa1.net!t6686 From: L Nelson To: Pawel Karaszkiewicz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 09:33:25 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.13325.0> References: <<1999Feb20.124019.0>> Precedence: bulk I got it to but did not open and deleted it I have only been in this group for a few weeks so I don't know much about it as long as its deleted from my mail is that enough????? How can sombody send it without knowing?????? Laura Pawel Karaszkiewicz wrote: > I've just received Happy 99 virus. Have't opened it and deleted. Is it enough? I remember a discussion about it, but I lost my archive > > Pawel > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 07:16:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 06:34:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: dodgestudio@juno.com Subject: Re: Glass Instructors Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:13:22 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.131322.0> References: <<1999Feb19.21141.0@?>> Precedence: bulk Peggy, Gary, et. al. What you both seem to be suggesting is the kind of thing which is covered by training for sports coaching. Most sports have a coaching organisation which sets standards and training guidelines. These are voluntary, but do have the sports body's approval through a certification procedure. One of the USA or UK organisations could set up such a course. After the initial stage, it could be self-financing - by the participants - of course, volunteers would be needed to prepare the standards and to get it started. It would take time to become established, just as the coaching schemes in the various sports did. Now no aspiring sports person would accept systematic coaching from anyone who didn't have some certification. Are there any organisations willing to take this one on? It would seem to provide a justification beyond self protection, and promotion of businesses. Steve in Scotland In message <1999Feb19.21141.0@?>, dodgestudio@juno.com writes >Peggy, > >This is a tough call. I think that it would have to be more a testing >procedure than a fixed set of requirements. First and most basic the >instructor must demonstrate the ability to execute a simple project in a >professional manner while being observed. This would include cutting >accurately and exhibiting proficiency with an iron. I think you'd need >separate certifications for foil and came technique. (And for slumping, >fusing etc?) > >Next there would have to be some kind of written test to see if there is >an understanding of theory as well. It is very possible to successfully >manipulate the materials yet not know why it works. That would be just >great except that you need to be able to explain why it works. Some >people are happy to just learn it by rote, others learn better when they >understand the objectives. > >Finally, and this is really asking a lot, but the best instructor needs >to be analytical, intuitive, patient, reassuring and a good communicator. > You need to be able to tell the difference between a student whose glass >doesn't break because the score line is bad and the student with >apparently the same problem who is actually just paralyzed with fear. >How you test for all of those is a tough question. > >These are some first thoughts on the matter at any rate.... > >Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs > >http://www.dodgestudio.com > > > > >On Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:56:06 -0800 (PST) "Peggy W. Johnsen" > writes: >> >>Like your comments regarding glass instructors. Hypothetical >>Question: >>If there were "industry" standards for teaching stained glass, what >>standards would you establish for the teachers? I posted this as >>hypothetical but I am totally interested in teacher preparation for >>stained glass instructors. Peggy >> >> > >Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs > >http://www.dodgestudio.com > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 07:34:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 06:48:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summitstudio From: Mike Peck To: dodgestudio@juno.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Work and learning styles Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 08:49:34 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.24934.0> References: <<1999Feb18.163134.0>> Organization: Summit Stained Glass (http://www.summitstudio.com) Precedence: bulk I have to agree with Gary, tapping a break in glass just creates problems. Just to add my 2 cents, tapping can also result in tiny fractures (from the radial shocks that Gary mentioned) that are directed toward the inner part of the piece you trying to fit. Those tiny fractures may not run during your soldering, but may run later if the panel is exposed to an extreme or rapid temperature change, or even if it's just hanging in a window when a thunderstorm passes through your area. Mike Peck dodgestudio@juno.com wrote: > > Brian, > > When you tap on glass you are creating a radial shock wave much like > ripples in a pond. Rather than directly addressing the score line and > causing it to open in a controlled way, the artist who taps is hoping > that a random shock will do the right thing by him. Sometimes it does, > sometimes not. Any flaw or stone in the glass becomes a problem that > might result in an unwanted break in the glass, but worst of all, tapping > on the glass results in lots of little dings sticking out on the > underside of the score that must be grozed or ground off. Who needs > that?! > > As for new stuff, I love gadgets but only if they can do something better > or faster than I can do it without them! > > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs > > http://www.dodgestudio.com > > On Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:22:13 -0000 "Brian Shepherd" > writes: > >Gary > > > >Read this with interest! I have never tapped glass to run a break but > >I have > >seen many people do it! What specifically is your objection? It does > >see to > >be a common practice - I've even seen SG workers do it! > > > >I'm familiar with the Thomas pattern cutter although I haven't tried > >one. I > >missed somehow the original mail and wondered if they were talking > >about the > >Silberschnitt! > > > > > >I'm always keen to look at different methods of doing things (older > >or > >newer!) and all the paraphenalia and specialised tools that accompany > >a > >craft fascinate me. I'm something of a catalogue-aholic anyway! > > > >Best regards > > > >BtB > > > > > > > >>By the time my class is done we've got people both pulling and > >pushing > >>their glass cutters. Breaking by hand and with runners (but never > >>tapping....ok, maybe a little inflexible ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs > > http://www.dodgestudio.com > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 07:49:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 06:57:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Charles Spitzer Subject: Re: latest Glass Craftsman articles Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 14:50:19 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.145019.0> References: <<3.0.6.32.19990217101721.009f0750@atlas2.az.stratus.com>> Precedence: bulk I'm sure I will be told that something is wrong with me, but I can't see the necessity of putting steel inside two cames on the perimeter of a panel. I'm getting really boring on this subject probably, but... 1. there is no additional strength added across the panel by perimeter reinforcing 2. There are quicker ways of "reinforcing" so a panel can be hung. One of them is to put twisted brass wire (picture hanging wire for example) around the outside of the perimeter came next to the heart. Then fold the outer leaves of the came together, so trapping the brass wire. Solder the ends of the wire together, and if you have allowed the wire to come out at the top of the panel, you have a wire to hang at one or two points. This supports the panel as it goes *completely around* the panel without breaks. This would be for a big panel. A smaller panel of 1-2 square feet (not feet square), can be supported by two copper ties about 2 inches long soldered to the side of the heart of the perimeter lead. 3. If the panel needs reinforcing, it needs it across the panel. The reinforcing should follow major "fold" lines across the panel, whether in lead came or in copper foil. If your panel is "floppy" it will remain so whether you put zinc, or steel encased in lead came on the perimeter. Perimeter reinforcing does not strengthen the panel internally, it just makes you feel better, because the edges are rigid. Well, that isn't going to help much if the panel is not properly supported across its width or height. Now, I have to admit that I haven't seen the article, so I am not criticising the author or what was written, Just criticising the concept. Because I think it is *Wrong* This may be a one person crusade, but I haven't been discouraged from continuing it so far. Steve in Scotland So, I'm far enough away! In message <3.0.6.32.19990217101721.009f0750@atlas2.az.stratus.com>, Charles Spitzer writes >Nice pictures of some of Oddy's work, along with a good article on framing >using lead came + steel rod. > >regards, >charlie >phx, az >-- >Charles Spitzer >Stratus Computer, Inc >Speaking from Stratus, not for Stratus, Ascend, or Lucent > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 08:07:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:25:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Allentown Explosion? Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:24:27 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb20.152427.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/20/99 1:43:05 AM, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com wrote: >Just heard on my moms list that there was a big explosion in >Allentown, Pa? > >What do any of you know about it? Everyone Ok? According to the Philadelphia Inquirer: ============================ A huge explosion rocked an industrial park outside Allentown last night, trapping at least six people in the wreckage and blanketing the area under a noxious chemical cloud. Emergency personnel worked into the early hours of the morning to reach the people feared trapped inside the flattened building on Roble Road in the Lehigh Valley Industrial Park, Hanover Township. The site is less than a mile from Lehigh Valley International Airport. [...] No fatalities were reported. [...] Officials said at least 10 people were injured. [...] [T]he chemical released into the air by the explosion -- hydroxylamine, a reducing agent resembling ammonia -- was not toxic and could be washed off with soap and water. However, the fumes from the 8:15 p.m. blast prompted emergency officials to establish a one-mile-radius containment area and urge area residents to stay indoors with their windows closed. [...] ============================ I think this is pretty close to Warner-Crivellaro. If so, I hope they didn't get shook up (I also heard reports that people as much as 15 miles away heard and/or felt the explosion) and their inventory turned into instant mosaic! Charles, are you out there? How's things this morning? --------------Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 08:32:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:27:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: NG Re: music to work by Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:26:42 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb20.152642.0> Precedence: bulk Also sprach Suzanne de T: >I am thinking maybe Tommy James and the Shondells? Yup, that was them! I always hated it when the radio stations cut out the instrumental section in the middle........ For that matter, IMO the instrumental section that got cut out was "good stuff" in a lot of the rock of that era. Quite a few "classic rockers" were classically trained to some extent, and those middle sections were where they got to have fun mixing the two. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 08:53:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:28:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: NG Wanna dance? was Music Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:26:43 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb20.152643.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/20/99 1:01:47 AM, pkelly@n-link.com wrote: >Dancing to the music. [...] .... come on over and join me >..... I've got more brooms...... Give me directions to your place, I'll be right over! And I'll bring my own broom, it's my preferred mode of transportation......... not counting the motor scooter, of course :-) Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 08:59:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:53:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Allentown Explosion? Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:51:31 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.55131.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Suzanne >Just heard on my moms list that there was a big explosion in Allentown,Pa? What do any of you know about it? Everyone Ok?< It was in a plant that manufactures fuses. Couple of people taken to the hospital. No evacuation required, but the folk living with the one-mile radius from the plant had to do without power and close their windows (which would have been closed anyway since it's still cold here) just in case there was any release of fumes into the air. The plant looked like it was bombed though. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 09:08:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:29:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: glass/music Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:26:56 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb20.152656.0> Precedence: bulk >> The dag-gum grinder noise makes my blood run cold. It can get anoying, but it ain't nothin' compared to the ring saw -- so named at least in part because that's what it makes your ears do? >> I usually have music going. Depending on my mood, but usually always >> uplifting. Last time it was the Squirrel Nut Zippers. Any other music >> selections to score by? >> >> Maureen Exactly what depends on my mood and what I'm working on. Baroque almost always "works" for me. For that matter, just about anything classical works for me except Romantic concertos -- especially the violin ones that sound to me like someone's sawing a cat in half and the piano ones that sound like the soloist is off in his own little world of cadenzas and other "solitary vices" -- and operatic-sounding stuff (as far as I'm concerned, big voices of any kind could be bottled up and sold as paint remover; they're the "muscle beach freaks" of music). Laid-back but *real* instrumental jazz (not that urban soft-pop stuff that calls itself "smooth jazz"), acoustic New Age (don't care all that much for the electronic stuff) and "world music" (love that drumming!). And anything that combines classical with any oher kind of music. Just about anything instrumental as long as it doesn't have an "edge" to it (forget screamin' saxophones). Occasionally "classic rock." Some of the mellower "indie" stuff works for me too. But I can't listen to rock/pop for long, because the voices (with a few notable exceptions) are too "edgy" and when things aren't in tune, they just "jump out and bite." Drives me up the wall. For that matter, vocal music of any kind can be a problem because the for some unknown reason the combination of words and music is too distracting. (Occupational hazards of being a singist myself, I guess.) Oddly enough, even though I can't listen to vocal music for very long, intelligent talk (the NPR stuff) is just fine in small doses! Vocal/choral early music, especially a cappella, but it has to be light lyric "early-music" voices and they have to be absolutely in tune. (English choirs are the best, but I know a pro chorus right here in Philly that ain't bad either no brag, just fact) And 20th century "serious music," especially cutting-edge (no pun intended) new music. One of the great things about working at Christie's is that we both like the "weird stuff," and we both bring in some of our more off-the-wall CDs. When I'm working by myself, I tend to put in a CD and set it on continuous loop (or "stun" as Christie calls it). Hey Stan, are you working all night, or what? Around here "Echoes" runs from 11 pm to 1 am. I keep meaning to get some 8-hour video tapes, set up the VCR for "simulcast," and tape a few of those shows to listen to when I'm awake. Sparks (currently listening to Frederic Hand and "Jazzantiqua") ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 09:22:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:53:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: show ?'s Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:51:28 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.55128.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Suzanne >Do shows allow this? Is there a secret to doing this? Do we have to pretend to be a company? Can 2 people do a show together like that? Both of us have could use the others inventory to pad theirs, so we look like we have more.< Some shows allow booth sharing. Some do not. Check with the show organizer if it is not explicitly stated in the jurying rules. You do not have to pretend to be a company. Play by the rules. It's OK. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 09:22:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:53:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Grinder-free experiment results Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:51:19 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.55119.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Peggy W. Johnsen" >Did you by any chance determine amount of time saved? Peggy< Saved about 15 minutes per candle chimney, what with the grinding (very little time), but (more importantly) washing & drying time saved. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 09:25:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:29:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: fume traps Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:26:51 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb20.152651.0> Precedence: bulk >Anyone know where to start looking for a respirator? > >T Suz I got mine at Home Depot. Look for the kind that's for paint fumes/organic vapors. And don't forget to replace the cartridges every so often; eventually they get sufficiently crudded up that they won't absorb any more. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 09:39:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:54:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: fume traps Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:51:40 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.55140.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "M. Savad" >currently mine is full of solder. i guess some of the solder is carried off with the fumes. there's enough in there, that i had to scrape it because the fan was clicking against it.< My Inland Fume Trap is also of questionable merit, IMHO. You do have to keep it smack up against whatever it is you're soldering. However, it does do some good, as I took the filter off yesterday to wash it, and it was full of black gunk. Better there than in my lungs. But I've returned to wearing my respirator while soldering, plus the fume trap. I figure the respirator does the main job of keeping fumes out of my lungs, but the fume trap sucks up additional stuff which would otherwise end up on the table. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 09:41:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:55:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Respirators Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:51:43 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.55143.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Suzanne >Anyone know where to start looking for a respirator?< Sears, hardware/tools section. Get the one rated for paint fumes - not the ones just rated for dust & pollen. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 10:55:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:11:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: digrap.com!Terri From: digrap.com!Terri To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:11:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1999Feb20.21132.0> Precedence: bulk > From: Terri O'Leary To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: RE: Allentown Explosion? Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:12:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Yes, there was an explosion in Hanover Township which borders Bethlehem and Allentown in PA. The company makes or uses some kind of chemicals. Information is still a little sketchy. It was announced on the radio this morning that 5 were killed, and they think they recovered everyone. The Company name is Concept Science, Inc. . For those of you who have been to WC it is only a short distance from them, bordering the airport and Rt. 22.. I live in Bethlehem and felt some of the vibration from the blast. It is very sad. That is all I know at this time. Terri -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne [mailto:gunnx4@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Saturday, February 20, 1999 12:45 AM To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Allentown Explosion? Just heard on my moms list that there was a big explosion in Allentown,Pa? What do any of you know about it? Everyone Ok? Tulsa Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 11:55:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:56:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE: support group for grinder users Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 18:42:56 +0000 Message-ID: <199902201854.SAA23078@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Ahem, That would make Toby an Irishman..... Since he hails (originally) from Cornwall, I don't think he would approve!! Let GO of that crazy tu-tu Toby!! N. O. W. !!!! E 'n T in UK Also sprach Dani Greer: >You might as well say Toby is a cat. Well, if it's true that "you are what you eat"..... Sparks replied: No, wait, that would make Toby - never mind, I'm not going there.......... ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 12:12:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:56:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Glass Instructors Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 18:42:56 +0000 Message-ID: <199902201854.SAA23070@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Gary, et al, What you say makes a lot of sense and I agree This is exactly the sort of training I myself have been undergoing for my own teaching certificate; i.e. 1. execute a project of my own under observation 2. all aspects of teaching (including identifying fears, etc) under observation 3. Theories and practice of education for Further & Higher Learning programmes 4. Communication, explanatory skills (all again under observation) 5. .....and many other aspects besides.... Although I have been teaching for some years now ( including management trainees in industry, foreign languages in UK secondary schools, as well as stained glass), I have never before been qualified as a "Teacher" per se .... until recently. Peggy does come from a very strong educational back-ground. In deed, the manual she has just had published is primarily aimed at teachers of stained glass, rather than at the students..... To specify a testing procedure, is also a means of setting a standard, is it not?? The "cowboy" who first taught me stained glass would be the FIRST candidate I would fail ....... He has always been a model for me how NOT to teach. Ah well..... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Gary wrote: it would have to be more a testing procedure than a fixed set of requirements. First and most basic the instructor must demonstrate the ability to execute a simple project in a professional manner while being observed. This would include cutting accurately and exhibiting proficiency with an iron. I think you'd need separate certifications for foil and came technique. (And for slumping, fusing etc?) Next there would have to be some kind of written test to see if there is an understanding of theory as well. It is very possible to successfully manipulate the materials yet not know why it works. That would be just great except that you need to be able to explain why it works. Some people are happy to just learn it by rote, others learn better when they understand the objectives. Finally, and this is really asking a lot, but the best instructor needs to be analytical, intuitive, patient, reassuring and a good communicator. You need to be able to tell the difference between a student whose glass doesn't break because the score line is bad and the student with apparently the same problem who is actually just paralyzed with fear. How you test for all of those is a tough question. On Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:56:06 -0800 (PST) "Peggy W. Johnsen" writes: > >Like your comments regarding glass instructors. Hypothetical >Question: >If there were "industry" standards for teaching stained glass, what >standards would you establish for the teachers? I posted this as >hypothetical but I am totally interested in teacher preparation for >stained glass instructors. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 12:27:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:56:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Cutting Techniques Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 18:42:56 +0000 Message-ID: <199902201854.SAA23075@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hey Dawn, You (and others, who won't be offended by my rather "cranky" old-fashioned approach and style) I look forward meeting during "The E-Tour" of USA that is happening in August and September THIS year. Warner Crivellaro are paying to fly me from UK and back (and host some events), Carol Swann is the chief organizer, Pamela Burns-Tappan has created a special WEB-site to show when and where of the events ( http://come.to/The E-Tour). I am absolutely NO guru, and I myself have an awful lot still to learn. But I do enjoy seeing the spark of enthusiasm fired up about something I feel deeply about (stained glass!) Let me tell you a secret (But don't tell Dani, because she might fire me from my temporary job.... ;-> ) ...... I too have a grinder and now and then I even use it (!!) However, the concept of a grinder is never introduced in my teaching (for at least 6-12 months). Occasionally my students appear with a little "Wizling" under their arms to Class, which they then proudly show off and experiment with. I say nothing, just make sure they take the necessary safety precautions and know how to use it properly,. After about the 4th or 5th appearance of said Wizling, the novelty wears off and the students REALLY concentrate on perfecting their accuracy in cutting glass. I occasionally bring in repairs and restoration works to show them, taking the lead apart and show them how craftsmen 80 - 100-150 years ago got their glass to fit in the precise space allocated. Hhhhmmmm.... I am still learning..... See you in August?? September?? Elisabeth 'n Toby (who sadly - will stay at home...) in UK I have always realized that there are many dedicated teachers on the list and the latest thread on cutting accurately really proves that point. Boy do I wish I had taken classes with Elisabeth, Dani, Gary or any of the other teachers here who would have kept the grinder hidden away (at least for awhile)!!! ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 12:45:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:30:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim Atwood" To: "Glass List" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: show ?'s Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:12:20 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.31220.0> Precedence: bulk I run an art gallery (Holtenwood Gallery, Texada Island, British Columbia) in addition to my glass / woodworking studio. Or actually, to be honest, I should say Adriana runs the gallery. The glass and wood working takes most of my time. Anyway, I will attempt to answer your questions. In this business almost anything goes. Different galleries have totally different policies, so the best thing is to just get out there and ask. Call ahead and make sure the gallery manager will be there to talk to you and then go in person. Or are we talking about craft shows here? Again, the policy of each craft show is different. Some are juried and for those you will each need to have your work juried separately. If you are both accepted then many shows will allow you to share a booth. Or this is one case where a company name can be used. Sometimes multiple people can be juried together as employees of one crafts company. Some shows will need you to prove a certain production volume so they can be sure you won't run out half way through the show. Others will allow someone with just one poorly made suncatcher so long as they pay the booth fee. A lot depends on how you want to sell yourself. What image are you going for? Do you want to be viewed as an "Artist"? A company doing architectural glass work? A crafts company? A restoration company? If you are doing the show as "artists" and you are tying to get art galleries to show your work, I would definitely use your own name. In fact, I would say a company name would be a detriment in this case. Personally, the only time I use my company name (Holtenwood Architectural Detailing), is when I am dealing with large commissions with other professionals (architects, builders, etc.), or I am buying materials from a wholesale only company. If you are going for a gallery show, go around and look at all the available galleries. Try to find one which has the "feel" you like, but is not already showing exactly the types of stuff you have to offer. Then make an appointment to talk to the gallery manager. Present yourself well. Make sure your portfolio looks good. No bad pictures, no messy mounting. Bringing in actual work is great, but make sure it is small enough for you to carry around and for the gallery manager to see and look at. Knocking over and smashing other artist's work as you swing a huge window through the door definitely does not win points. Multi-person shows are fairly common. But I would suggest you sell yourselves to the gallery manager one at a time. For some reason, two people trying to sell themselves at once usually end up destroying the sale. If you must go together, make sure you have decided who is going to do the talking. The other person should be attentive, but keep their mouth shut until they are asked to show their own work. Then the roles could switch. If you get shot down, do not take it personally. Some galleries are just plain snobbish. Others have a special niche you may not fit into. My own gallery is purely "local". We will show almost anyone from the Texada / Powell River area whose work meets our quality standards. But the farther away the artist is, the more exceptional their work would have to be. We do no show any artist who lives further away than Vancouver or Victoria. So if you live outside this area, we would refuse you. It would not be a reflection on your work, just a matter of policy. You may also want to look at non-gallery show space. Our local mall has display windows you can rent by the month. The waiting list is several months, but it can be well worth the wait. This method seems to work well for selling smaller commissions, repair work, and other services. In all cases, once you get a show space make sure your work is displayed well. Stay involved. Different gallery managers want different levels of involvement from the artists. But how your work is displayed is definitely your business. I am constantly surprised how many gallery owners do not know how to display certain types of work to advantage. Lighting appropriate to a painting can suck all the life from a stained glass piece. If you are doing the display yourself make absolutely sure you do it right. The display windows in the local mall have cheap incandescent lighting. When I have used them to advertise a special event at the gallery, I went out and bought halogen light bulbs and extra lighting fixtures. I repainted the walls and cleaned the glass in the window myself. I constructed quality backdrops from quality fabric. Do it right - cheap lighting, dirty paint, or a cheap backdrop will make your work look like crap no matter how good it is. As a final note, once you have an agreement, get it in writing. If your work is being shown on commission make sure you have a contract specifying the commission percentages and breakage and theft policies. Get a signed list of every piece you give to the gallery. Keep a list of every piece you show in any display space. If possible, take a picture of the finished display so pieces can be identified exactly. I would like to think all gallery owners (and artists) are as honest as myself and Adriana, but I know it is not true. And even if you are dealing with honest people, theft and breakage are a fact of this world. Having it in writing prevents any misunderstandings. And most of all, just keep at it. Getting shows and displaying your work is just like doing the work itself. It takes effort, perseverance, and practice, practice, practice. The more times you deal with these situations, the better you will be at them. -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 10:53 PM Subject: show ?'s >Hi y'all! ;o) > >Me again..quit groaning.. > >A fellow Bungian and I are discussing the idea of doing a show together. >We have about the same amount of show experience..(slim). We have >exchanged pics and like each others work. > >It would not be competitive between us, but more of a help to each of >us...in terms of sharing display, expenses...everything. 2 can do it >cheaper than 1...and we could have fun doing it. Between the 2 >personalities, I think we would boost each others sales. > >Do shows allow this? >Is there a secret to doing this? Do we have to pretend to be a company? >Can 2 people do a show together like that? Both of us have could use >the others inventory to pad theirs, so we look like we have more. > >Any advice at all, we would appreciate. What do we need to think about >that we may not be? > >Thanks. > >Tulsa Suzanne >-- >"Winning isn't always finishing first. >Sometimes winning is just finishing." >Manuel Diotte >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 13:01:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:31:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim Atwood" To: "Glass List" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Beginner classes Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:01:33 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.3133.0> Precedence: bulk Yes, I was going to mention it also. daver! is sending messages that are not in plain text. They are probably in HTML or MIME format. They will not pass through most gateways or firewalls and may even be being zapped by the list server itself. daver!: change your default format for the glass list address to "plain text". In MS Outlook Express this is done by setting up the glass list address in your address book and checking the box "Send E-mail using plain text only". Similar in Windows Messaging (Exchange). I don't remember what it is in Eudora, but I do know it is there. Actually for everyone else, this is why my own "came vs. foil" message turned up missing or strange in most people's mail. I was on a new laptop and I had not set it up right. Unfortunately I also deleted the text of the message I sent because I was just borrowing the laptop to try it out. I don't have time to re-type it right now, so I guess that particular thread has gone to the great bit bucket in the sky for the moment... -----Original Message----- From: Goldpaws To: daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@out4.ibm.net Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 8:35 PM Subject: Re: Beginner classes >All of the E-Mails that I receive from you are blank. >Does anyone else have this problem? >Goldpaws > >daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano wrote: >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 13:05:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:31:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim Atwood" To: "Glass List" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 09:52:07 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.1527.0> Precedence: bulk So long as you have not opened it or run it in any way, you are safe. Just to be sure you do not open it accidentally in the future, you should be sure it is fully deleted. If you do not have your email program set to clean up the deleted items folder on exit (or whatever depending on the email client), you should explicitly tell it to clean it up now. Some email clients send deleted messages to the recycle bin. If you have one of these programs, you will want to clean it out there. -----Original Message----- From: L Nelson To: Pawel Karaszkiewicz Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 8:07 AM Subject: Re: Gatewayed mail message >I got it to but did not open and deleted it I have only been in this group for a few weeks so I don't know much about it as long as its >deleted from my mail is that enough????? >How can sombody send it without knowing?????? >Laura > >Pawel Karaszkiewicz wrote: > >> I've just received Happy 99 virus. Have't opened it and deleted. Is it enough? I remember a discussion about it, but I lost my archive >> >> Pawel >> >> ---- >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 13:20:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:31:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim Atwood" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Your Free 1,800 Page Y2K Report Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:14:18 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.31418.0> Precedence: bulk Why the !#**$#@ are we getting this crap on a glass list???? -----Original Message----- From: tur818r@yahoo.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 1:19 AM Subject: Your Free 1,800 Page Y2K Report > > >***** Y 2 K P R E S S R E L E A S E ***** > > >FREE FREE ** 1,800 PAGE Y2K REPORT ** FREE FREE > > > Over 1,800 Pages of the most important Y2K > information available today and it's > TOTALLY 100% FREE. > > >Double Click On This Link: http://209.60.152.131 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 13:23:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:31:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim Atwood" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: What to do while scoring. Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 09:46:34 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.14634.0> Precedence: bulk I absolutely will never, positively never, execute an .exe file attachment unless the sender has described exactly what it is and guaranteed it does not contain a virus. I would hope everyone else has the same policy. An .exe file could be a program to destroy your entire computer. Unless you all like playing Russian Roulette with your computer, you sure as heck should not execute the file that was attached to the message below. -----Original Message----- From: Robert G. and Rebecca T. Wickline To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 9:06 PM Subject: What to do while scoring. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 13:35:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:32:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim Atwood" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: copper sulfate Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:27:53 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.32753.0> Precedence: bulk I might suggest the cleaning with steel wool could be your problem. The slightest thread of steel wool left on the lead would prevent the patina from working in that area. Steel (iron) is very reactive and will change almost any chemical reaction. I use a brass brush to clean the lead and/or solder before a patina. Much less harmful to the reaction if any is left behind. If I need to use steel wool, I always use a high quality long strand steel wool. The threads are much longer and do not tend to break off as much. This is available from Lee Valley Tools catalogue for not much more than than bad stuff from your local hardware store. There are also stainless steel wools available which will not react, but these tend to be very pricey. Actually, you might want to experiment. Some patinas have some very interesting effects when applied with steel wool or a steel brush. Duller "bronze" patinas often result. Extreme caution whenever experimenting with chemicals though. Wear safety glasses, gloves, etc. One patina solution I tried this with was so reactive with the steel that it heated up and began to melt right through my rubber gloves. -----Original Message----- From: Jerri To: glass@bungi.com Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 4:00 AM Subject: Re: copper sulfate > >Thanks Dani and Charles, > > Someone, a while back, told the copper patina gets old. My results were >very blotchy, and this was after cleaning really well and going over the >solder with steel wool. A friend brought over her new bottle of patina, and >I had much better results, so I thought it must be that the patina was old, >although I have some old black patina that still works fine. I've always >used cotton or q-tips and throw away each one after use, so I don't >contaminate. My friend applies it with a toothbrush. She always has very >nice results. > >Any other suggestions anyone? I know this has been discussed before, but I >don't remember. > >Jerri > > > > >Hi Jerri- > >Mike says you just mix it with water, it works great, and he >doesn't know why yours would have gone bad. > >Best, > >Dani > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 13:44:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:10:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Grinder-free experiment results Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:08:18 -0800 Message-ID: <199902202008.MAA09181@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >Saved about 15 minutes per candle chimney, what >with the grinding (very little time), but (more importantly) >washing & drying time saved. What about the residual oil from the cutter? C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 13:56:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:48:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim Atwood" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Your Free 1,800 Page Y2K Report Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:46:26 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.34626.0> Precedence: bulk Hey! tur818r@yahoo.com is not even a valid email return address. What sort of s...head sends this sort of spam through a glass list without even a proper return address! -----Original Message----- From: Tim Atwood To: tur818r@yahoo.com ; glass@bungi.com Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 11:14 AM Subject: Re: Your Free 1,800 Page Y2K Report >Why the !#**$#@ are we getting this crap on a glass list???? > >-----Original Message----- >From: tur818r@yahoo.com >To: glass@bungi.com >Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 1:19 AM >Subject: Your Free 1,800 Page Y2K Report > > >> >> >>***** Y 2 K P R E S S R E L E A S E ***** >> >> >>FREE FREE ** 1,800 PAGE Y2K REPORT ** FREE FREE >> >> >> Over 1,800 Pages of the most important Y2K >> information available today and it's >> TOTALLY 100% FREE. >> >> >>Double Click On This Link: http://209.60.152.131 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 14:02:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:48:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim Atwood" To: "Christie A. Wood" , "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Respirators Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:42:05 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.3425.0> Precedence: bulk If you have a wholesale / resale / PST or whatever you state, province, or country requires for buying wholesale, you may find the best selection and price from your local safety equipment supplier. -----Original Message----- From: Christie A. Wood To: Bungi Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 10:46 AM Subject: Respirators >Message text written by Suzanne >>Anyone know where to start looking for a respirator?< > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 14:15:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:49:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim Atwood" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: fume traps Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:39:02 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.3392.0> Precedence: bulk I much prefer my positive flow filter mask. It uses a rechargeable battery pack to push cool air through a filter at my waist then through a hose and the across the front of my face. It is much cooler than a respirator and does not fog my glasses. It is also the only thing that works for people with beards. A beard prevents a normal respirator from fitting right. Mine is from Racal. Check your yellow pages "safety equipment". Positive flow filter masks are required for many industrial uses, so any safety equipment supplier should carry them. They cost a bit, but can be well worth it for the comfort and piece of mind. I got mine for about $100 (Canadian). -----Original Message----- From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 10:30 AM Subject: Re: fume traps > >>Anyone know where to start looking for a respirator? >> >>T Suz > >I got mine at Home Depot. Look for the kind that's for paint fumes/organic >vapors. And don't forget to replace the cartridges every so often; eventually >they get sufficiently crudded up that they won't absorb any more. > > >Sparks >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 14:36:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:03:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Suzanne , Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: show ?'s Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:01:17 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.11117.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Suzanne- I belong to a co-op that puts on an arts & crafts fair every Labor Day weekend and we do allow more than one person in a booth as long as their work is complimentary/related. I think the max. is four people per booth. Also, each member has to jury in separately, so there's a bit of a risk factor.... if one gets in, one not. It's a very beneficial situation for folks who are good but just starting out because you can share expenses and duties while getting the experience you need. Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 14:40:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:03:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Christie A. Wood" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: fume traps Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:01:44 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.11144.0> Precedence: bulk I would really like to see a good write-up about air filtering for the studio... something that compares everything from an open window and small fume traps, furnace/airconditioner filters, to HEPA systems one can buy at Sears and full-blown industrial strength systems. What's available out there between $50 and $5,000 and how well do they work? And how do you pronounce H-E-P-A? ;-) Best regards, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 14:53:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:04:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "INTERNET:dodgestudio@juno.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Glass Instructors Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:01:24 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.11124.0> Precedence: bulk Gary- Maybe you could be part of the IGGA advisory committee to help write some teacher certification standards. Certainly, it makes sense that real teachers be part of the standardizing crew. Any other teachers out there that would be interested in some organized brainstorming? And to do some serious research as to how other certification programs got started? Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 15:12:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:55:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Hot Glass Repair help Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:54:58 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.115458.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all. I've had a couple of very nice, tall, blown glass flowers come into the shop which need repair. They are labeled Princ Art Glass (Bohemia Glass) and are the heavy, tall, top-heavy glass flowers on rather thin stems. Naturally, the stems are broken. The clients tried taking them to a hot shop for repair, but the hot shop said no go since they didn't have a clue as to the glass's formula. I can slice the stems above the break so that both halves get a fresh, smooth surface (thank goodness for the Taurus II ring saw). But now my question...what glue will give the best results for this type of repair? I need something that will dry clear & give excellent rigidity & hopefully be invisible. UV glue? If so, which brand? Can anyone out there help? I've already warned the clients that I might be unable to repair them at all, so they said give it your best shot. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 15:42:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 14:19:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: support group for grinder users Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 14:17:17 -0800 Message-ID: <199902202217.OAA31320@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >>You might as well say Toby is a cat. > >Well, if it's true that "you are what you eat"..... > >Sparks replied: >No, wait, that would make Toby - never mind, I'm not going there.......... My gosh Sparks, you're right...it sounds like Toby eats cats!!! Horrors! Look out Mousey... C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 15:59:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 14:32:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Grinder-free experiment results Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:29:39 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.122939.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Carol Swann >What about the residual oil from the cutter?< Not a problem, since I stopped filling up the Toyo pistol grip cutter. I only occasionally dip the cutter into a small pool of cutter oil, and always kindof sling off any excess just prior to scoring. There really wasn't any excess oil on the pieces. Hence, no washing needed. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 16:14:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 15:14:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: warner-criv.com!charles From: "Charles Warner" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Allentown Explosion? Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 18:16:05 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.13165.0> Precedence: bulk Yes, the explosion was about 2 miles from our store. We were dining at a beautiful restaurant about 10 miles away when the explosion happened. The restaurant has a scenic view of our valley. It shook the building so badly that everyone got up and ran to an outside balcony to see who hit the building with their truck or car. Then we saw a huge cloud of smoke in the night sky. Everyone then went to the bar to listen to the television reports. When we heard "several businesses just off of Airport Road" it was a bit unsettling, but as the newscast continued, we knew it wasn't in our immediate neighborhood. Nevertheless, we did swing by the store on our way home to make sure that we still had factory size sheets of glass and no outer windows were broken - for security reasons, of course. EVERYTHING WAS JUST FINE, but very sadly, 5 people were killed and 13 others injured, some of them critically. Property can be replaced. Lives cannot. Thanks for asking. Marianne Warner Warner-Crivellaro >============================ > >I think this is pretty close to Warner-Crivellaro. If so, I hope they didn't >get shook up (I also heard reports that people as much as 15 miles away heard >and/or felt the explosion) and their inventory turned into instant mosaic! >Charles, are you out there? How's things this morning? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 16:47:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 15:45:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim Atwood" To: "Glass List" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: we're practically neighbors! Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 15:42:39 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.74239.0> Precedence: bulk Making an income in a remote location can take a lot of effort. I end up doing all sorts of things. I must admit I pick up income from places other than art. I was originally trained as a computer programmer and I still do some of that on a contract basis. I've even spent time collecting fir cone seed for the christmas tree growers. The gallery does OK except for January/February. The island residents are quite supportive. Actually Christmas is almost as busy as the tourist season. I have done commissioned windows locally (Texada, Powell River), but I do end up travelling a lot. I've done work in Whistler (lots of money and new fancy ski homes), the Sechelt peninsula (lots of money and new fancy waterfront homes). It helps I also do wood working. I often sell my work for new buildings at least partially in the fact I can also do custom detailing on the window frames, moldings, etc. But all in all, I will do almost any honest work that will help pay the bills. -----Original Message----- From: Carol Swann To: Tim Atwood Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 3:28 PM Subject: we're practically neighbors! >Hi Tim > >I was just about to write and ask where you were located...I knew it was bc >'cuz your ISP has bc in their name. > >>I run an art gallery (Holtenwood Gallery, Texada Island, British Columbia) >>in addition to my glass / woodworking studio. Or actually, to be honest, I >>should say Adriana runs the gallery. The glass and wood working takes most >>of my time. > >I'm guessing that your business is pretty seasonal with the tourist trade or >do you show/sell through galleries in Vancouver. Are you successful with >getting custom orders when you're that far out? > >I live at Miracle Beach (Black Creek) halfway between CR and Courtenay. I >guess you could say on a clear day I can almost see your Island. I've >contemplated moving to a smaller place but can't see how i would be able to >service custom clientele. I already find my Vancouver and SEattle clients >to be a stretch. Victoria's pretty accessible though. I do regular road >trips, it's just that they're already pretty long. > >I'd like to hear how you manage to derive a FT income in such a remote place >(food for my thoughts). > >C. > > >Carol Swann >Synergy Glass & Creative >http://www.igga.org/synergy >seaspray@island.net > >check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: >http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 17:18:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:08:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: jroey@juno.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: copper sulfate Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 19:05:31 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb21.0531.0> Precedence: bulk Jerri, I have had a bottle of copper patina for over 10 years now and it is still fine. Have you been contaminating your patina? If you use the patina directly from the bottle, you will surely contaminate the entire contents in no time at all. I always pour a small amount into a tiny (plastic) container and use it from there. Any patina that is left over is disposed of and NOT poured back into the original patina container. Hope this helps. Lenore PS I really like the idea of mixing your own patina from crystals!! Let me know how you like it. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 17:33:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:16:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ticnet.com!rjlcon From: "Jak N Wolfy" To: "Christie A. Wood" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Respirators Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 18:20:48 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.122048.0> Precedence: bulk Also check with Home Depot and Lowe's in the tool department. Both of them carry respirators,,,,,more than one kind.......... Jackie -----Original Message----- From: Christie A. Wood To: Bungi Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 11:47 AM Subject: Respirators >Message text written by Suzanne >>Anyone know where to start looking for a respirator?< > >Sears, hardware/tools section. Get the one rated for >paint fumes - not the ones just rated for dust & pollen. > >Christie A. Wood >Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, >P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 >http://www.igga.org/wood/ >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 17:46:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:18:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: Yegnim@aol.com To: wickline@i2020.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: What to do while scoring. Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 19:17:33 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb21.01733.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Beckie! I'm with you as I too listen to story tapes while glassing. I borrow them from the library and think it is great!! However, sometimes they can be distracting (like the music can't?!). Now I am into informative tapes on: living, vocabulary enrichment, how to ______ (whatever), etc. I have a problem with dancing with my upper and lower torso when I listen to music. Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 18:08:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:34:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Luanne6556 From: Luanne6556@aol.com To: KLeeman@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: music to work by Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 19:31:38 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb21.03138.0> Precedence: bulk Debbie, YEAH!!!!!!!! Love Mountain, thought I was the only fan left. LUANNE ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 19:25:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:53:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Your Free 1,800 Page Y2K Report Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 20:50:19 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.155019.0> Precedence: bulk It happens once very couple of months, Tim. Nothing to get excited about. All the old-timers on the list simply hit the "delete" button. Most importantly, don't reply to the offending post because the only folks who'll get your reply are about = 700 other bungi members! The offender doesn't know you're upset. We had a fun thread a while back on whether we could get the "Hot Russian Babes" to do some foiling and cementing for us! Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 20:39:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 19:08:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Inventor of Copper Foil Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 19:06:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1999Feb20.11621.0> Precedence: bulk Several days ago someone posted some facts about the history of stained glass. One of the passages told who invented copper foil or who got a pattent for it in 1866. I deleted the message and ever since I have been unable to remember the man's name. Something like John Ballen??? Help! Thanks, Peggy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 21:27:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 19:56:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bigpond.com!ktsplash From: KTSPLASH To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Subject: HELP recovering payment Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:51:20 +1000 Message-ID: <1999Feb21.235120.0> Precedence: bulk Hello Bungians, I've been lurking about watching and learning from this most excellent group of people. I am a stained glass hobbyist, just starting to sell items to people in my area, mostly people I know, but some who have been sent to me by people I know. I was wondering have any of you professional people got any advice for me on taking payments for my work. Obviously at this point I am not charging anywhere near professional prices, although I hope some time in the future to be a professional, I am more grateful for the opportunity to hone my skills. I do charge people at least the cost of materials, and it seems fair to also charge a bit for my time. I have a particular fellow who agreed on a price for 6 sidelights for his home. They measured approx 3'10" by 1' for each sidelight, and were quite intricate, since I designed them myself - and didn't quite realize how much work I was creating for myself! We agreed on $900 Australian (about $1500 US (I think)). Unfortunately, I wasn't here when he picked them up and when he paid less than agreed, my boyfriend took him at his word that the remainder ( about $200 Australian) would be paid. I think he got a great deal on this, a friend of mine who is a professional told me the workmanship was very good, and that for the intricacy of the design etc, if he'd had them done by a "Proper Professional" he would have been charged much much more, up to double what we agreed on. I'm wondering if any one has any advice for me on whether I should just cut my losses, or if anyone else has had a similar experience and has a tried and true money-extracting technique!! Also, any advice for the future on asking for payment? Should I ask for a percentage up front, or full amount up front, or a payment scheme such as a payment at beginning, half way and end? Lost and getting desperate, Katie Walters, Qld, Australia. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 20 22:59:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:36:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bio #90 Candy Thurman Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 23:35:19 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.173519.0> Precedence: bulk I was born in Detroit, MI and was almost given up for adoption.. sometimes I wonder what would have become of me.. but my mother relented and I became the oldest of her 6 children (yeah, I know, I was still first...;-) ) She was artistic, but totally undisciplined and when the kids kept coming, she stopped drawing and I helped with all the babies... I think back on it and I know I had lots of fun, but jeez, such a little mother I was.. To break the monotony (!), with leftover crayons and no paper in sight, I came up with a solution.. wall murals!! And when the crayons were nubs, there was always the radiators.. and that's how I learned that red and yellow make orange... (and that's what got me the only spankings I ever got...) and one day, I went to a church with the Catholic lady across the way and I got a new idea... I could color the windows!!!! And so it began... After years of poor-dom, (don't feel sorry, but it was there for a long time) ,,, I received for Christmas a class in stained glass at a college 10 miles out of town... (whatever was in his mind... we didn't have a car!) so... after 1-1/2 hrs of (one-way) bus travel and lots of switchovers (oh by the way, I grew up in Toledo, Ohio,, the then 'glass capital of the world'), I arrived at the college campus... the teacher, on reflection, was very bad... she said to use any old pair of pliers (do I hear groans?) and sandpaper to grind (more groans? I hope by now I'm getting a little sympathy here), I got a little glass cutter for $2 and started cutting away on the little pieces she gave us.. and oh yes, the class was in a chemistry lab,, nice high black counters to cut on (geez, let me guess, I'm only 5' tall) and thank goodness I'm stubborn!! I cut and broke and cried and threw it against the wall and then cleaned it up and had a talk with myself about continuing this exercise in masochism.... I decided that I was more supreme than a flat piece of glass and continued... I remember talking to the teacher and trying to get some direction, but since I hadn't/couldn't buy an entire kit (grinder, grozers, breakers, etc.) she really didn't want to spend much time on me.. After the class, I took a 'real' design class at the Toledo Museum of Art and was urged by the teacher to attend an art school in Calif.. (boy that really made my day!) and then when I moved there, I found out just how expensive those things are! I divorced in Calif and remarried there, a better marriage, but it didn't last long either.. One thing that did come out of it though, was that I started doing suncatchers, on my own, patterns of course, and learned and learned and learned.. no teacher, no one to ask questions of but myself.. I learned the difference between leftover score breakage and heat fracture; why not to leave a foiled piece unsoldered for long; how to repair both foiled and leaded pieces; how to identify glass companies; and got a license and went to the Mecca (in Georgia/South Carolina ) of Glass, Mt. Airy Glass!!! Wholesale costs!! Whoopee!! Lots and lots and lots of glass (I currently have more glass than most of the local glass companies, sitting in my studio (read 1-1/2 car garage))... Found the difference between piping solder (50/50) and Canfield; compared fluxes; patinas; my oh my oh my!! After a couple of years (about 1987) I was talked into teaching and found out how much fun (and what a headache!) that was.. I still teach, class limit is 3.. both fusing and flat leaded/foiled panels, and would love to teach a lamp class... I teach theory of color and design, am fussy about type of glass used for each project (there are times when only Youghigheny or Chicago or Bullseye will do) but do allow my students to try glass from all the companies.. I'm told I'm a very understanding and good teacher.. which compliments I take with embarrassment but also pride... I haven't yet done a real restoration (though the repairs I've done would fit the 'restoration description' )...I have made over 400 items (I stopped counting years ago) and now, won't make a suncatcher unless my arm is broken.. I have windows in Israel, New York, Oregon, Ohio, California, Georgia, Texas, and Colorado.. and no, I can't pay the house payment with the money I make.. I buy glass and solder and lamp forms instead..oh yes.. and a kiln!!!! and all it's attendant glass molds.. I've lately been working on teaching myself pate de verre.. (there's a really good Japanese book out there..) Hopefully, this has been fun for you to read.. I hate tedium! Oh yes, and the food on my plate right now? A Betta window (Siamese fighting fish- no browns or beiges please!), a drop through bowl, (both of my own designs), and an 8 panel lamp for the living room.. Bored? Me? No! I have lots of projects going... any questions? Candy in Colorado land of wind Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 00:29:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 23:07:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Re: Tinning edges of foiled pieces? Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 23:04:12 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.15412.0> Precedence: bulk >>On this vein, I received a repair recently on a panel bought in Mexico. It was foiled with a thin lead for trim. When I took some of the border pieces out, noticed that the copper foil around these pieces did not wrap all the way around. The foil started and ended about 1/2" in on the outside edge. Is this standard practice? I've always foiled all the way around every piece. Maybe in Mexico they are saving on the cost of foil? Suzanne<< My way is to not foil around the outside edge of a piece that is to have a thin lead U border. The reason is that the foil tends to show and trimming it back with a knife is a pain. I do, however, run the foil all the way to the outer edge. Stopping a 1/2" short would make soldering the foiled seam to the border hard. In Mexico they are a lot like in the US. The quality of the work ranges from excellent to poor. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass, have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 01:05:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 23:38:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cybertron.com!lgworks From: Patricia Lambert To: KTSPLASH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: HELP recovering payment Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 01:32:15 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.193215.0> References: <<1999Feb21.235120.0>> Organization: Lambert Glassworks Precedence: bulk KTSPLASH wrote: > Also, any advice for the future on asking for payment? > Should I ask for a percentage up front, or full amount up > front, or a payment scheme such as a payment at beginning, > half way and end? > Lost and getting desperate, > Katie Walters, Qld, Australia. Hi, Katie! We started out with handwritten contracts till we could print our own. Our standard is one-half the total cost (design time + materials + time + profit) at the time the contract is signed, then the rest when it is picked up or installed. You could do half up front, then 1/4 part-way thru and 1/4 when picked up. It should always be paid for by time they take possession of it. We also put in a statement of how far into the project they could make changes without it costing more (with Some people you really need this!) I guess we've been lucky or the contract signing makes it serious to people- no one has ripped us off yet (thank you, Lord)! Hope this helps! Pat L. Alabama, USA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 01:32:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 23:53:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: NG I said.. Dr.. Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 01:58:24 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.195824.0> Precedence: bulk is there something I can...take. DOCTOR...to releive this belly ache... you put the lime in the coconut, ya stir it all up... OoooOoOOOh... ;o) Wanna dance, Arnold? T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 03:43:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 23:53:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: NG I said.. Dr.. Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 01:58:24 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.195824.0> Precedence: bulk is there something I can...take. DOCTOR...to releive this belly ache... you put the lime in the coconut, ya stir it all up... OoooOoOOOh... ;o) Wanna dance, Arnold? T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 03:52:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 00:18:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Bio #90 Candy Thurman Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 02:22:29 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb20.202229.0> Precedence: bulk > Hopefully, this has been fun for you to read.. I hate tedium! I enjoyed it thoroughly, Candy! ;o) Thanks. > any questions? Well, yes, but I figure if you wanted to tell all you would have. T Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 04:29:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 03:08:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Inventor of Copper Foil Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 06:15:01 +0000 Message-ID: <199902211107.GAA09043@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Several days ago someone posted some facts about the history of stained > glass. One of the passages told who invented copper foil or who got a > pattent for it in 1866. I deleted the message and ever since I have been > unable to remember the man's name. Something like John Ballen??? It was patented by Simon Bray, 1886. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 04:47:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 03:13:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!SGriffiSBG From: SGriffiSBG@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Bio #90 Candy Thurman Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 06:11:15 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb21.111115.0> Precedence: bulk This is for Candy: you mentioned in your bio (which was very entertaining btw) that you discovered why a foiled piece should not be left too long before soldering. Please tell me why as I am beginning to solder my first project but due to flu etc. it has been sitting for about 3 weeks. I have been questioning whether I should go over all the pieces with steel wool (1000 grit) before soldering. I'm a newbe (poor excuse). :-) Help. Thanks. Shirley G ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 07:30:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 06:45:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: SGriffiSBG@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Bio #90 Candy Thurman Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 09:41:48 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb21.44148.0> References: <<1999Feb21.111115.0>> Precedence: bulk SGriffiSBG@aol.com wrote: > > This is for Candy: you mentioned in your bio (which was very entertaining > btw) that you discovered why a foiled piece should not be left too long before > soldering. Please tell me why as I am beginning to solder my first project > but due to flu etc. it has been sitting for about 3 weeks. I have been > questioning whether I should go over all the pieces with steel wool (1000 > grit) before soldering. I'm a newbe (poor excuse). :-) Help. Thanks. Shirley > G > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass because the exposed foil left in the air, oils, etc, can cause the foil to oxidize. if that happens the solder won't stick to the foil. a few weeks should'nt hurt it too much, though in spots you may find it difficult to get the solder to stick on. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 08:15:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 06:23:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: copper sulfate Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 09:22:00 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb21.14220.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/20/99 4:36:32 PM, atwoods@aisl.bc.ca wrote: >I might suggest the cleaning with steel wool could be your problem. The >slightest thread of steel wool left on the lead would prevent the patina >from working in that area. Steel (iron) is very reactive and will change >almost any chemical reaction. If there's any flux residue at all on your stained glass piece and you go after it with steel wool, the iron will react with the flux and you'll get ferric chloride, which is black. (That's if you're using Flux-O-Matic or some such zinc-chloride-based flux). My vote goes for Scoth-Brite pads (you know, the famous "green scrubby thingy"). Hardware stores also sell coarser ones for paint removal and surface preparation (a lot of woodworkers prefer those to steel wool because steel wool can give surfaces a grayish tinge from the traces of iron it leaves behind). ----------Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 08:26:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 06:34:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: fume traps Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 09:33:27 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb21.43327.0> References: <<1999Feb20.11144.0>> Precedence: bulk Dani Greer wrote: > > I would really like to see a good write-up about air filtering for > the studio... something that compares everything from an > open window and small fume traps, furnace/airconditioner filters, > to HEPA systems one can buy at Sears and full-blown industrial > strength systems. What's available out there between $50 and > $5,000 and how well do they work? And how do you pronounce > H-E-P-A? ;-) > > Best regards, > > Dani Greer > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass HEPA i pronounce it Hepah like peppa stands for High Efficiency Particulate Air - it could really be pronounced any way you like. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 09:02:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 07:58:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw From: "Granny And PawPaw" To: "bungi" , "Suzanne" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NG I said.. Dr.. Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 10:50:01 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb21.5501.0> Precedence: bulk Hey Girl....Whatcha been sniffin ???? Arnold -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 6:50 AM Subject: NG I said.. Dr.. >is there something I can...take. >DOCTOR...to releive this belly ache... >you put the lime in the coconut, ya stir it all up... >OoooOoOOOh... >;o) Wanna dance, Arnold? > >T Suz >-- >"Winning isn't always finishing first. >Sometimes winning is just finishing." >Manuel Diotte >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 10:02:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 09:34:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Granny And PawPaw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: NG I said.. Dr.. Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 11:39:01 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb21.5391.0> References: <<1999Feb21.5501.0>> Precedence: bulk > Hey Girl....Whatcha been sniffin ???? > > Arnold > Just healthy stuff, like lead and flux. Just heard a song I really like that always makes me get up and wiggle! Still cant get it out of my head. I'm about to drive my kids crazy! Turn about is is fair play! T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 10:33:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 10:10:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: HELP recovering payment Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:08:42 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb21.8842.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by KTSPLASH (Katie) >I'm wondering if any one has any advice for me on whether I = should just cut my losses, or if anyone else has had a similar = experience and has a tried and true money-extracting technique!! Also, any advice for the future on asking for payment? Should I ask for a percentage up front, or full amount up front, or a payment scheme such as a payment at beginning, = half way and end?< Send them an invoice detailing the price you quoted, and their payment history, and the remainder owed you. Circle the remainder owed you in red ink. Make sure you also print on the invoice something to the effect that "Please remit the final payment to
" Keep tabs on the date you mailed it, and if you have not received payment within 30 days, send a 2nd notice. Write "2nd Notice" in big red letters. If nothing in another 30 days, send out a "Final Notice" via certified letter. If nothing, you really can't do much else if you didn't get the contract in writing with the agreed-to price and both of your signatures. But you will have acted like a professional in trying to collect money owed to you, and most times the client will do the right thing and mail you the money. In the future, make sure you get a written contract detailing prices, delivery times, and payment schedules, as well as other items you want covered, such as who is responsible for installation, how long you guarantee your work, etc. Make sure you get the client's signature on the contract. In my contract, I split payments into three... The 1st is for design work and is equal to 10% of the quoted price. This is payable immediately and to be sent to me along with the signed contract authorizing me to do the final design work. The 2nd payment is equal to 25% of the quoted price, and is payable after the design has been approved by the client. The 3rd payment is for the remainder, and is due on installation day. If I'm not payed on installation day, I don't install it. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 10:46:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 10:10:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Hot Glass Repair help Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:08:47 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb21.8847.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:alewis@adelphia.net >This is very close to the right answer. The right answer is "they = can't really be repaired at all." There's simply to much stress for = them to ever be anything other than decorative ... not useful. Suggest to the clients that they have been given a mission from god = to go buy new stemware.< The clients don't care if the cut line is visible. They just want to pieces put back together again so that there is a stem on the flower. And they know the repaired stem is no longer functional at supporting the weight of the top of the flower. pj friend told me hexal or uv glue is the best I can do, so I'm going with that. And Lezlie gave me an excellent how-to description of using the UV glue and black light set-up. So I'm trying that approach. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 11:16:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 10:47:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ipa.net!gecko From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: mobiles Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:50:10 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb21.65010.0> Precedence: bulk Howdy all. I am curious as to what the best material to string mobiles together with is. I have been trying to use fishing line, and am pretty much fed up with it. I had been looking for a thin, very flexible wire like string, but just haven't found the right thing. Is there anything in particular that y'all use? (like mah accent?!) Also, do you have any suggestions on what to use for the balancing bars of the mobile. I've used glass in some cases, but really want a thin metal that I can twist each end into a tiny loop with. I want to make some mobiles, but what I've turned out so far just don't look professional. So I figure I'll just consult the bungi-oracle. (well THAT almost sounds dirty!) My own creativity seems to be at low tide for the day. Thanks! Blake :-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 12:19:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 11:23:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: "Christie A. Wood" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: HELP recovering payment Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:28:40 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb21.72840.0> References: <<1999Feb21.8842.0>> Precedence: bulk > such as who is responsible > for installation, how long you guarantee your work, etc. > Make sure you get the client's signature on the contract. How long do *you* guarantee your work? What exactly does that guarantee cover? Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 12:38:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 11:30:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: mobiles Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:33:08 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb21.7338.0> References: <<1999Feb21.65010.0>> Precedence: bulk > I have been trying to use fishing line, and am pretty much fed up with it. > I had been looking for a thin, very flexible wire like string, but just > haven't found the right thing. Maybe a bead shop would have what you are looking for. Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 13:13:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:50:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: J B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: HELP recovering payment Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:55:17 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb21.85517.0> References: <<23020-36D06E2B-3004@mailtod-212.iap.bryant.webtv.net>> Precedence: bulk J B wrote: > > Suzanne asked: > > >How long do *you* guarantee your work? > >What exactly does that guarantee cover? > > Interesting question, Suzanne. I was recently approached by a customer > who purchased a fused pin from me over a year ago. She dropped it and > it broke.... could I fix it??? I suggested she try and glue it > together, but she did not think that would look good (neither do I....) > What is an artist's obligation if something is damaged long after > purchase, and it is not due to any defect in the piece???? How do > others handle this. (The pin, obviously can not be "fixed"... a new one > would have to replace it). > > Joan When you are at a movie theater and you buy a pop, drop it and the entire thing dumps when you havent had a cent...I think it is incredibly nice *if they give you another...and you know what kind of markup is on that $2.50 soda pop. I would not ask them to, as once it was in my hands I was responsible. I cant imagine someone expecting you to repair for free, damage that was caused by their own hands. Now if something happened that seemed to be because of poor structure or workmanship...that is a different story.. but what is that story? Tulsa Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 13:42:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:07:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: mobiles Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 16:03:27 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb21.11327.0> Precedence: bulk I used hammered copper wire (like out of electrical wire) for the cross pieces, thin welding rod for the primary cross piece, some sort of chain arrangement for the "dangles" with glass pieces = attached to chain via jump rings and fishing swivels. Clear as = mud, eh? You might also consider piano wire. Best, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios www.igga.org/greer/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 13:57:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:12:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!Beadnik3 From: Beadnik3@webtv.net (J B) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Guaranteeing your work Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 16:11:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1999Feb21.111149.0> Precedence: bulk Suzanne asked: >How long do *you* guarantee your work? >What exactly does that guarantee cover? Interesting question, Suzanne. I was recently approached by a customer who purchased a fused pin from me over a year ago. She dropped it and it broke.... could I fix it??? I suggested she try and glue it together, but she did not think that would look good (neither do I....) What is an artist's obligation if something is damaged long after purchase, and it is not due to any defect in the piece???? How do others handle this. (The pin, obviously can not be "fixed"... a new one would have to replace it). Joan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 14:31:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:04:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: yahoo.com!barbaraelmore From: barbara elmore To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: HELP! collecting debt Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:01:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1999Feb21.6122.0> Precedence: bulk Small claims court may be your best option, but check locally to see if the total amount of your claim does not exceed the limit set by individual states...for instance, over $2000 in my state would be handled by a different court system. You do not need a lawyer to represent you, but you must be ready to present good, solid evidence that (1) you provided goods and/or services that to the person and (2) you have dilligently tried to collect that debt or take back possession of your product/merchandise. Call the county of RESIDENCE of the person, not your own, for more information. Hope this helps! _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 14:45:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:10:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw From: "Granny And PawPaw" To: "bungi" , "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: mobiles Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:02:24 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb21.12224.0> Precedence: bulk The stuff you want is called Tiger Tail. The better quality is Beadalon. It is a twisted wire cord with plastic coating. The item is held on with a loop fastened with crimp tubes or beads. Arnold -----Original Message----- From: Blake, Wayne, & Susan To: Bungi Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 2:27 PM Subject: mobiles > >Howdy all. > >I am curious as to what the best material to string mobiles together with >is. >I have been trying to use fishing line, and am pretty much fed up with it. >I had been looking for a thin, very flexible wire like string, but just >haven't found the right thing. > >Is there anything in particular that y'all use? (like mah accent?!) > >Also, do you have any suggestions on what to use for the balancing bars of >the mobile. I've used glass in some cases, but really want a thin metal >that I can twist each end into a tiny loop with. > >I want to make some mobiles, but what I've turned out so far just don't look >professional. So I figure I'll just consult the bungi-oracle. (well THAT >almost sounds dirty!) My own creativity seems to be at low tide for the >day. > >Thanks! >Blake >:-) > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 14:59:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:46:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Guaranteeing your work Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:45:41 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb21.124541.0> References: <<1999Feb21.111149.0>> Precedence: bulk J B wrote: > > Suzanne asked: > > >How long do *you* guarantee your work? > >What exactly does that guarantee cover? > Interesting question, Suzanne. I was > recently approached by a customer who purchased a fused pin from me over > a year ago. She dropped it and it broke.... could I fix it??? I > suggested she try and glue it together, but she did not think that would > look good (neither do I....) What is an artist's obligation if something > is damaged long after purchase, and it is not due to any defect in the > piece???? How do others handle this. (The pin, obviously can not be > "fixed"... a new one would have to replace it). > Joan > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass for your situation, the "victim" would have to pay. if the fused pin broked due to a COE problem, an odd expansion that took a long time to develop, then it would be your problem. or if the pin came unglued from the pin part, then fell. for a box if a hinge failed (unstuck from the box), or if the chain pulled away from the foil. i'd fix it for free (if it was my box and i sold it to them. if they dropped it on the floor, then it's their problem. if a panel fell because the chain you attached streched and unlinked; or a ring or the came pulled apart, causing the panel to fall and break, then it could be your fault. of course if this happens you may have medical bills and who knows what else to worry about. but it can be tricky if they replaced a chain with something else, and it fell. if a lamp falls over anf burns their house down it's their problem. but if bad wiring in the lamp causes the fire, then it's your problem... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 15:55:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 15:46:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: HELP recovering payment Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 15:45:03 -0800 Message-ID: <199902212345.PAA21720@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk Katie, ouch...this is one of those tough learning experiences, isn't it? First, let me say that undercharging by half for your work does everyone a disservice...it's unfair to you (as you've found out with this project), and it's unfair to those of us who earn our living from creating stained glass. It lowers the public's perception of what glass is worth, and makes it more difficult for us to sell our work. That said, let's figure out what's happened. First, he got one heck of a deal. Second, it's not clear whether you had a deposit up front (I won't even do anything more than a real rough conceptual sketch until I've got approximately 50% of the project price in my hand), and third, you allowed someone else to make the delivery, someone who isn't the person who put the blood, sweat and tears into the work and who therefore has less invested in getting the money as stated on the invoice. Always get a deposit...I learned this the hard way. Took an order from a couple, and then in the ensuing couple of months while I produced the order they decided to divorce. Result...neither of them would pay for the glass, so I was stuck with it. With a deposit, you're not out of pocket for materials if clients divorce, die or change their minds (all things out of your control). I would NEVER, NEVER, NEVER allow someone else to deliver my work (unless I have a VISA card number on file), nor do I ever let work leave my studio unless it's been paid IN FULL. When doing installations, I make it clear that I expect balance of account in full before I leave the premises. I would have expected your boyfriend to say something like...Thanks for putting some money down on the sidelights. We'll hold them for you until you bring the balance along. After all, he should be taking your side, right, not a strangers... Now, it sounds like you're thinking that the client deliberately shorted you the money since it sounds like you're not comfortable just asking for the money. Who knows, maybe yes, maybe no. I have no idea how good a judge of character your boyfriend is, nor do I have any idea what your client's character is. I have no way of knowing whether your client is forgetful, made an honest mistake or is a slick dealer. I would suggest taking a deep breath, mustering all the balls you have (while hoping you don't have to use them) and go to the fellow's home and knock on the door. (While you're knocking note whether installation is complete...if not, subtly try and locate windows right away just in case). Although I'm loaded for bear, I'd start with a "I was in the neighborhood and thought I'd drop by to collect the balance to save you another trip to the studio" line. He may say great and give you the money...if not I'd go to the "there must be some mistake...the price we agreed upon is $xxx and you only paid $yyy so there's a balance owing. Could you please cover that today? (I'm assuming you also had a written contract to back this up...take it over with you). Hopefully you will receive your money at this point. Still not getting the money? I'd go to the fallback position, since at this point it would be pretty clear he's a slick dealer, perhaps trying to evade payment, so... Moral of the story...if he balks, you don't have much to go on but your personal persuasveness or repossession of the windows to get the money. And if he's an out and out shyster and the windows haven't been installed, I'd scoop them out to my vehicle right away, while handing him a receipt clearly showing the amount he's paid and the balance still owing. Let him know clearly and politely that "a mistake was indeed made" and the windows should never have been released without full payment, and that you would be happy to release them once you receive the addl $200. Hopefully it won't come to this, but remember, nobody's gonna look after you but you. I would indeed go the extra mile and keep cool as long as possible while steadily and constantly repeating to the client that the work is not paid in full. Experts say that when returning items to clearly and consisely repeat over and over the desired outcome...can't see why it wouldn't work the other way also. This is just my feeling...I'm pretty sure there will be others on bungi who will say something like "it's not worth your reputation"...however my feeling is that if indeed it isn't a simple oversight or confusion that can be easily and simply rectified, that this person probably does this all the time and is known in the community for his shady business dealings, so reclaiming your windows probably won't be a strike against you. Let your gut be your guide in this, but don't be a weenie either just to be liked or to be nice either. If you listen to your intuition, you'll understand what's going on. I have one client who refused to put down a deposit on his second window claiming he'd established good credit with me, but a couple of other things he said made me wonder. He also had a real sob story to tell about a sandblast artist who'd also done some work for him, and then didn't get back to him for the second project he wanted done. I'm seeing a pattern here since the window that the first artist didn't get back to him on is also the second project he has in mind for me...the one he he same one he won't put a deposit on, so I think he may have a pattern of pushing artists to the max for the minimum return. Don't know about you, but that's not the sort of person I want for a client. Good luck with whatever course of action you decide upon, and let us know what happens. C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 16:27:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 16:12:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bigpond.com!ktsplash From: "Katherine Walters" To: "Bungi List" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: How did he do it? Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 22:22:55 +1000 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.82255.0> Precedence: bulk Albert... A-hah....I getcha. Puts a whole new slant on the info contained in the book, but at least nothing can take away from the photographs. Another piece of info contained in the same book was that sometimes Tiffany studios would create their own came, textured specifically for the place in the window it was to be used, eg a barky texture for lead lines in trees. Would this be true? Katie. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 17:28:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:23:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Guaranteeing your work Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 20:20:50 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb21.152050.0> Precedence: bulk How's this for a reply: Gee, I'm sorry it can't be fixed. What a shame... I have some new pieces= you might really like ....would you like to see them? I'll even give you= a ___% discount since you like the other pin so much. Nothing like another sale to save the day! ;-) Best, = Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 18:27:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:56:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Carol Swann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: HELP recovering payment Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 20:54:26 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb21.155426.0> Precedence: bulk We have never had a problem receiving payment or having a bad check in 25 years of doing stained glass. Our terms are simple: 50% down and 50% upon completion/installation. (Sometimes windows can't b= e installed until home construction is completed, so we get paid and store the windows until they can be installed.) We don't ordinarily do contracts exactly... just a handwritten receipt out of a two-part receipt book we pick up at Walmart. The customer gets one when they make their deposit and we keep a copy. We don't charge for the colo= r scale drawing of their design either; experience has taught us that we often "get" the job because we're willing to prove to the customer our worth before they lay down a dime. They know exactly what they're buying= and the exact cost and there are no changes after the full-size cartoon i= s drafted. 95% of our scale drawings clinch the sale. The other 5% we mak= e available to future customers or use as "spec" pieces for exhibitions or our shop windows where they also eventually sell (usually for double the cost!) When we work with churches, we usually do up a formal bid outlining exact= ly what we're offering for the cost and including our terms... this is submitted to the pastor/committee. Only recently have we had a circumstance that required a formal contract.... the Army chapel restoration we've been working on for the past several months. When I go= t the 50-page contract from the general contractor, I called and told them the paperwork was too much trouble and they would have to get another S.G= From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 18:58:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:52:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: webtv.net!Beadnik3 From: Beadnik3@webtv.net (J B) To: GreerStudios@compuserve.com (Dani Greer) Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Guaranteeing your work Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 21:51:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1999Feb21.165128.0> References: <> Precedence: bulk Dani wrote: >Gee, I'm sorry it can't be fixed. What a >shame... I have some new pieces=3D >you might really like ....would you like to >see them? I'll even give you=3D >a >=A0___% discount since you like the other >pin so much. I LIKE that answer... great idea!!! Thanks! Joan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 21 19:28:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:54:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Try again:Re: HELP recovering payment Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 21:51:45 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb21.165145.0> Precedence: bulk -------------Forwarded Message----------------- From: Dani Greer, = To: Carol Swann, INTERNET:seaspray@mail.island.net = CC: [unknown], INTERNET:glass@bungi.com = Date: 2/21/99 6:45 PM RE: Re: HELP recovering payment We have never had a problem receiving payment or having a bad check in 25 years of doing stained glass. Our terms are simple: 50% down and 50% upon completion/installation. (Sometimes windows can't b= e installed until home construction is completed, so we get paid and store the windows until they can be installed.) We don't ordinarily do contracts exactly... just a handwritten receipt out of a two-part receipt book we pick up at Walmart. The customer gets one when they make their deposit and we keep a copy. We don't charge for the colo= r scale drawing of their design either; experience has taught us that we often "get" the job because we're willing to prove to the customer our worth before they lay down a dime. They know exactly what they're buying= and the exact cost and there are no changes after the full-size cartoon i= s drafted. 95% of our scale drawings clinch the sale. The other 5% we mak= e available to future customers or use as "spec" pieces for exhibitions or our shop windows where they also eventually sell (usually for double the cost!) When we work with churches, we usually do up a formal bid outlining exact= ly what we're offering for the cost and including our terms... this is submitted to the pastor/committee. Only recently have we had a circumstance that required a formal contract.... the Army chapel restoration we've been working on for the past several months. When I go= t the 50-page contract from the general contractor, I called and told them the paperwork was too much trouble and they would have to get another S.G= From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 03:58:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 03:39:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: usaor.net!3hounds From: Gloria and George <3hounds@usaor.net> To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: no e-mails ????? Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 06:33:05 -0200 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.4335.0> Precedence: bulk just checking as I haven't received any incoming mail from the bungi line. please verify that I am still on the list. Thank you. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 06:59:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 06:46:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summitstudio From: Mike Peck To: Dani Greer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Guaranteeing your work Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:48:36 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.24836.0> References: <<1999Feb21.152050.0>> Organization: Summit Stained Glass (http://www.summitstudio.com) Precedence: bulk Just a side note: our local SGO franchisee is touting a 10 year warranty on his work ... and that prompted a potential client to ask me about guarantees on real stained glass. I told him that generally my work only lasts for a couple of centuries before you have to throw it out. Mike Peck Dani Greer wrote: > > How's this for a reply: > > Gee, I'm sorry it can't be fixed. What a shame... I have some new pieces= > > you might really like ....would you like to see them? I'll even give you= > a > ___% discount since you like the other pin so much. > > Nothing like another sale to save the day! ;-) > > Best, = > > Dani Greer > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 07:22:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 06:36:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: RE: NG Mime problems. Date: Mon Feb 22 06:36:45 1999 Message-ID: <1999Feb23.41445.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5E6E.9F033F5A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Tim I am sending this to you direct and through bungi. Mime is turned off and mail is sent in plain text. I noticed that mail sent through bungi arrives back at my system with as a mime message. Mail sent direct does not. Let me know how the two messages arrive. Vic M. Vmodaino@ctronsoft.com -----Original Message----- From: Tim Atwood [mailto:atwoods@aisl.bc.ca] Sent: Saturday, February 20, 1999 2:02 PM To: Glass List Subject: Re: Beginner classes Yes, I was going to mention it also. daver! is sending messages that are not in plain text. They are probably in HTML or MIME format. They will not pass through most gateways or firewalls and may even be being zapped by the list server itself. daver!: change your default format for the glass list address to "plain text". In MS Outlook Express this is done by setting up the glass list address in your address book and checking the box "Send E-mail using plain text only". Similar in Windows Messaging (Exchange). I don't remember what it is in Eudora, but I do know it is there. Actually for everyone else, this is why my own "came vs. foil" message turned up missing or strange in most people's mail. I was on a new laptop and I had not set it up right. Unfortunately I also deleted the text of the message I sent because I was just borrowing the laptop to try it out. I don't have time to re-type it right now, so I guess that particular thread has gone to the great bit bucket in the sky for the moment... -----Original Message----- From: Goldpaws To: daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@out4.ibm.net Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 8:35 PM Subject: Re: Beginner classes >All of the E-Mails that I receive from you are blank. >Does anyone else have this problem? >Goldpaws > >daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano wrote: >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5E6E.9F033F5A Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: NG Mime problems.

Tim

I am sending this to you direct and = through bungi.

Mime is turned off and mail is sent in = plain text.
I noticed that mail sent through = bungi arrives back at my system with as a mime message.
Mail sent direct does not.

Let me know how the two messages = arrive.

Vic M.
Vmodaino@ctronsoft.com

      -----Original = Message-----
      From:   Tim Atwood [mailto:atwoods@aisl.bc.ca]=
      Sent:   Saturday, February 20, 1999 2:02 PM
      To:     Glass List
      Subject:       = Re: Beginner classes

      Yes, I was going to mention it = also.

      daver! is sending messages that are = not in plain text.  They are probably in
      HTML or MIME format.  They will = not pass through most gateways or firewalls
      and may
      even be being zapped by the list = server itself.

      daver!: change your default format for = the glass list address to "plain
      text".  In MS Outlook = Express this is done by setting up the glass list
      address in your address book and = checking the box "Send E-mail using plain
      text only".  Similar in = Windows Messaging (Exchange).  I don't remember what
      it is in Eudora, but I do know it is = there.

      Actually for everyone else, this is = why my own "came vs. foil" message
      turned up missing or strange in most = people's mail.  I was on a new laptop
      and I had not set it up right.  = Unfortunately I also deleted the text of the
      message I sent because I was just = borrowing the laptop to try it out.  I
      don't have time to re-type it right = now, so I guess that particular thread
      has gone to the great bit bucket in = the sky for the moment...

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Goldpaws = <gmanning@banet.net>
      To: = daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@out4.ibm.net
      <daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@out4.ibm.net>
      Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 8:35 = PM
      Subject: Re: Beginner classes


      >All of the E-Mails that I = receive  from you are blank.
      >Does anyone else have this = problem?
      >Goldpaws
      >
      >daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano = wrote:
      >----
      >For subscription changes, please = mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
      >To send to the = list,      please mail to: = glass@bungi.com
      >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


      ----
      For subscription changes, please mail = to: glass-request@bungi.com
      To send to the = list,      please mail to: = glass@bungi.com
      Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5E6E.9F033F5A-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 07:41:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:05:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!swetinusa From: "Jane M.S." To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: No Mail ?!? Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:00:18 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.3018.0> Precedence: bulk Have not rec'd any mail over w/end. Is the server down? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 07:46:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 06:43:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!summitstudio From: Mike Peck To: Dani Greer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: HELP recovering payment Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:43:05 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.2435.0> References: <<1999Feb21.155426.0>> Organization: Summit Stained Glass (http://www.summitstudio.com) Precedence: bulk Dani, My experiences have been almost the same as yours when it comes to working WITH people. Keep the terms simple and it eliminates any confusion, and I've only been stiffed once in 20+ years. I also went through one of those "50-page" contract situations with a contractor working on an Army church in Ft Leavenworth. It really wasn't the contractor's fault as he was simply writting his contract to conform to the government's guidelines. But, it's no wonder why the government is notoriously overcharged ... I think you have to charge a premium on government contracts in order to cover the time you spend doing all the stuff to comply with their requirements. I think the one requirement that was most irritating was one covering "retains" .... the government wanted to "retain" 10% of the total payment for a period of one year, just in case something went wrong with the work. Their "retains" requirement was their insurance that I would honor a call back relating to poor workmanship. I eventually passed on the contract. Mike Peck Dani Greer wrote: > > We have never had a problem receiving payment or having a bad > check in 25 years of doing stained glass. Our terms are simple: > 50% down and 50% upon completion/installation. (Sometimes windows can't b= > e > installed until home construction is completed, so we > get paid and store the windows until they can be installed.) We don't > ordinarily do contracts exactly... just a handwritten receipt out of a > two-part receipt book we pick up at Walmart. The customer gets one when > they make their deposit and we keep a copy. We don't charge for the colo= > r > scale drawing of their design either; experience has taught us that we > often "get" the job because we're willing to prove to the customer our > worth before they lay down a dime. They know exactly what they're buying= > > and the exact cost and there are no changes after the full-size cartoon i= > s > drafted. 95% of our scale drawings clinch the sale. The other 5% we mak= > e > available to future customers or use as "spec" pieces for exhibitions or > our shop windows where they also eventually sell (usually for double the > cost!) > > When we work with churches, we usually do up a formal bid outlining exact= > ly > what we're offering for the cost and including our terms... this is > submitted to the pastor/committee. Only recently have we had a > circumstance that required a formal contract.... the Army chapel > restoration we've been working on for the past several months. When I go= > t > the 50-page contract from the general contractor, I called and told them > the paperwork was too much trouble and they would have to get another S.G= ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 08:06:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:45:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: HELP recovering payment Date: Mon Feb 22 07:44:44 1999 Message-ID: <1999Feb23.52244.0> Precedence: bulk i agree with dani on this. i have been doing glass professionally for five years, and have only ever had one check bounce (and that was stupid on my part, i used to work for her, and she would bounce out paychecks, so i should have known) i found that my sales increased dramatically after we started taking charge cards, especially at shows... 50% down and 50% on completion..if someone orders something at a show, same thing applies...i do charge $25 up front to do the original drawings, and then apply that to the finished piece. i found that kept people from just having things drawn up for the fun of it (ran into this problem at a couple shows, people would want to have a window, but then would never agree to have it made after i spent the time doing the drawing....kind of like the tire kickers in the used car lots) i also do not formally write up a contract, use a receipt pad from staples, write on it that the payment is a 50% deposit, the finished price total, and amount due at time of receipt of finished product. know this doesn't help that fact that you don't have the money for the sidelights already done, but i would do as christie suggested, send them an invoice. i would probably make one phone call first, to suggest they put a check in the mail. debbie taylor kleeman@one.net http://www.taylordexpressions.com your complete stained glass supply source 1-888-488-9616 -----Original Message----- From: Dani Greer To: Carol Swann Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 9:35 PM Subject: Re: HELP recovering payment >We have never had a problem receiving payment or having a bad >check in 25 years of doing stained glass. Our terms are simple: >50% down and 50% upon completion/installation. (Sometimes windows can't b= >e >installed until home construction is completed, so we >get paid and store the windows until they can be installed.) We don't >ordinarily do contracts exactly... just a handwritten receipt out of a >two-part receipt book we pick up at Walmart. The customer gets one when >they make their deposit and we keep a copy. We don't charge for the colo= >r >scale drawing of their design either; experience has taught us that we >often "get" the job because we're willing to prove to the customer our >worth before they lay down a dime. They know exactly what they're buying= > >and the exact cost and there are no changes after the full-size cartoon i= >s >drafted. 95% of our scale drawings clinch the sale. The other 5% we mak= >e >available to future customers or use as "spec" pieces for exhibitions or >our shop windows where they also eventually sell (usually for double the >cost!) > >When we work with churches, we usually do up a formal bid outlining exact= >ly >what we're offering for the cost and including our terms... this is >submitted to the pastor/committee. Only recently have we had a >circumstance that required a formal contract.... the Army chapel >restoration we've been working on for the past several months. When I go= >t >the 50-page contract from the general contractor, I called and told them >the paperwork was too much trouble and they would have to get another S.G= > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 08:35:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:55:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Guaranteeing your work Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:00:44 +0000 Message-ID: <199902221553.KAA26466@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Just a side note: our local SGO franchisee is touting a 10 year > warranty on his work ... and that prompted a potential client to ask me > about guarantees on real stained glass. I told him that generally my > work only lasts for a couple of centuries before you have to throw it > out. How long is your guarantee, though? 20-30 years? Or if your studio's around in 200 years, would you restore it at no cost? Just curious, since some clients (universities with chapels, US gov't sites, etc.) do ask for guarantees. Some home builders / owners might do so, as well. albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 09:05:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:20:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: fume traps Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:20:00 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb22.16200.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/21/99 11:27:20 AM, esavad@home.net wrote: >HEPA i pronounce it Hepah like peppa stands for High Efficiency >Particulate Air - it could really be pronounced any way you like. I pronounce it "respiratory system preservation." As soon as I get a few bucks, I'm buying one. (Having finally gotten my voice back after 2 months of creaking and croaking, I want to keep it!) ---------Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 09:15:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:23:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: mobiles Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:20:10 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb22.162010.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/21/99 3:40:03 PM, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com wrote: >Maybe a bead shop would have what you are looking for. There's something called "tiger tail" that's a braided strand. I think it comes in at least 3 thicknesses; I recall seeing references in a catalog to tiger tail, rat tail, and mouse tail. -----------Sparks (strung out as usual, someone pass the lime & coconut please!) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 09:24:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:26:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Guaranteeing your work Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:20:04 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb22.16204.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/22/99 10:02:07 AM, summitstudio@worldnet.att.net wrote: >I told him that generally my >work only lasts for a couple of centuries before you have to throw it >out. !!!!!!!!!!! GOOD ANSUH !!!!!!!!! ---------Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 09:39:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:45:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: HELP recovering payment Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:44:26 -0800 Message-ID: <199902221644.IAA32647@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk I agree with you all...never been stiffed on a cheque myself, etc. etc., however if you refer back to the original post, the problem exists and we've been asked for how to "fix things" not how to prevent them from happening. I've seen only 2 posts that address this...mine (assertive approach) and Christie's (passive) approach, plus one on small claims court in the US, which doesn't help the writer from Australia. I think what the reader really needs right now is not how to avoid the problem (it exists)...what' needed are creative solutions...anyone else got any ideas. I'm curious too since people sometimes find me to be too out front...I'm always looking to learn myself. C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 10:00:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:18:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!vlg From: "Vincent LaGreca" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Allentown Explosion? Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:26:02 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.6262.0> Precedence: bulk I'm not having a great week! The building that blew up was 749 Robel. You ask how I know? Because we own(ed?) a piece of it. Ciao Vic -----Original Message----- From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 11:27 AM Subject: Re: Allentown Explosion? > >In a message dated 2/20/99 1:43:05 AM, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com wrote: > >>Just heard on my moms list that there was a big explosion in >>Allentown, Pa? >> >>What do any of you know about it? Everyone Ok? > >According to the Philadelphia Inquirer: > >============================ > >A huge explosion rocked an industrial park outside Allentown last night, >trapping at least six people in the wreckage and blanketing the area under a >noxious chemical cloud. Emergency personnel worked into the early hours of the >morning to reach the people feared trapped inside the flattened building on >Roble Road in the Lehigh Valley Industrial Park, Hanover Township. The site is >less than a mile from Lehigh Valley International Airport. [...] > >No fatalities were reported. [...] Officials said at least 10 people were >injured. [...] > >[T]he chemical released into the air by the explosion -- hydroxylamine, a >reducing agent resembling ammonia -- was not toxic and could be washed off >with soap and water. > >However, the fumes from the 8:15 p.m. blast prompted emergency officials to >establish a one-mile-radius containment area and urge area residents to stay >indoors with their windows closed. [...] > >============================ > >I think this is pretty close to Warner-Crivellaro. If so, I hope they didn't >get shook up (I also heard reports that people as much as 15 miles away heard >and/or felt the explosion) and their inventory turned into instant mosaic! >Charles, are you out there? How's things this morning? > > > --------------Sparks >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 10:37:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:20:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: socent.org!atf From: "ATF Distribution Center-K. See" To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Breathing Safe & Clean Air Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:19:21 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.81921.0> Organization: SOC Enterprises Precedence: bulk By now we all understand how important this issue is. I have been looking into the purchase of something. I presently use a respirator. I work below a ceiling fan plus I also have a small clip on fan. When the weather is warmer I also work with the sliding glass doors open. Truth be told I only use the respirator when I plan on soldering for a long period. It gets hot & sweaty. I also have not figured out when I need to change the filters. They look clean sooooo when? These are my questions... 1) Can an air cleaner with HEPA filter take the place of the fume trap? Most of these cleaners deliver clean air (blank) times per hour in a (size) e.g... 6 times per hour in a 8'x10' room. It appears the fume trap needs to be almost "on" your work to catch to fumes... so will the "whole room" air cleaner take its place? 2) I also notice that there is a Smoke Absorber available. It is smaller then the fume trap and costs 3 times as much. Is anyone familiar with this product? These are my criteria for the purchase Size How noisy Cost K See ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 11:03:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:31:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: socent.org!atf From: "ATF Distribution Center-K. See" To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Kiln for slumping & fusing Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:31:31 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.83131.0> Organization: SOC Enterprises Precedence: bulk I have decided to bite the bullet & get a kiln. I plan on slumping glass & fusing designs to incorporate into my pieces. I don't want to limit myself by starting off too small (cause I know myself) so I'm thinking something like the Evenheat 14" floor kiln w/pyrometer. 120V Also, of all the books on fusing et al...what would you recommend? I need suggestions & recommendations TIA K See ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 11:21:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:35:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Carol Swann" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: HELP recovering payment Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:31:44 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.23144.0> Precedence: bulk >>I think what the reader really needs right now is not how to avoid the problem (it exists)...what' needed are creative solutions...anyone else got any ideas. I'm curious too since people sometimes find me to be too out front...I'm always looking to learn myself. C.<< It is hard to give a solution to this problem beyond the obvious ones that have already been given. Lets face it, this stained glasser set herself up for what she got. Now it is time to at least learn from this A$200.00 lesson. If a few tough comments turn her into a Carol Swann than she has benefited way beyond the cost of the lesson. First, she way underbid the job and thereby destroyed the opportunity for someone to make a reasonable monitary return. Frankly, I resent that and and do not feel overly bad about her now having to pay the price for her sins. :-( I suspect the buyer was looking for someone that was hungry. It is a sign of an easy mark. While I have had the 100% success reported by others of taking 50% up front and the balance on delivery, there are more than a few people out there that make a plan of screwing hungry artists. Early on I ran into one that had such grand plans that I felt honored to work for him and asked for nothing up front. Ended up receiving nothing for my work and bounced check charges on top of that. I know of a studio that hard charges at high end contracts and ends up not collecting the final payment on at least a couple of jobs a year. Typically, the glass is installed and a rubber check issued or in some cases final payment is withheld for a trivial problem that would require a great deal of effort to correct- such as a tiny scratch on a bevel in the middle of a large window that has just been installed. One can always find something as an excuse for non payment. The above aside, I do hope she collects her due. I also hope she learns from this and follows the good advice given. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass, have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 11:37:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:36:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Got an idea Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:29:34 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.22934.0> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk And it will probably go no farther than that. But....... Howard are you lurking? I have an old lamp, it has been used and abused, but I love it. I want to make a shade for it. I do not want to make a domed type shade, I want to make a prairie type. The lamp base is a replica, I don't know what you call it. It is a holder for the wooden poker thingy they use on sailing boats in the knotted ropes. Ya know so you can get the wet rope to unknot easily. You see them all the time on old pirate movies, they are always hitting someone over the head with them. Well this lamp base is the holder of two and they can be removed from the base. So my question is, can you put a prairie lamp shade on an old lamp base? Is there a gadget that you can solder the shade to, that will fit on the lamp? And finally, can you make an intricate pattern on the front of the lamp shade? I want to do a galleon sailing on the high seas. Then the sides and back would be just plain enough to ensure good solder lines. Would this cause the shade to be constantly off balance? Don't worry about meeting electrical code. This is just for me and I won't sue myself!!! Thanks in advance. Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 12:37:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:16:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY From: JJKIRBY@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: HELP recovering payment Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:13:14 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb22.201314.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/22/99 9:40:30 AM Pacific Standard Time, seaspray@mail.island.net writes: << 've seen only 2 posts that address this...mine (assertive approach) and Christie's (passive) approach, plus one on small claims court in the US, which doesn't help the writer from Australia. >> I suspect they have some equivelent in Australia. They may also have a "mechanic's lien" law. This always a lien to be placed against the customer's house until the debt is paid. I know in California it is a very simple process. The law even allows unpaid subcontractors to place liens on property even if the general contractor has been paid - if the sub hasn't been paid. This is quite unfair to the homeowner, but it's the way our law works. The lien doesn't guarentee payment, however it makes it difficult to sell the property until the debt has been cleared. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 13:03:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:31:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Shirley Balloch" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Got an idea Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:26:42 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.42642.0> Precedence: bulk >>The lamp base is a replica, I don't know what you call it. It is a holder for the wooden poker thingy they use on sailing boats in the knotted ropes. Ya know so you can get the wet rope to unknot easily. You see them all the time on old pirate movies, they are always hitting someone over the head with them. Well this lamp base is the holder of two and they can be removed from the base.<< Let's get our nomenclature squared away! A belaying pin is used for belaying (making fast) lines (not ropes) to and to hang the coil of line on. It is also excellent for hitting someone on the head. This is likely what you have. A wooden fid is is a slender cone used to open up the lay of the line such as when splicing and for picking wet knots. A marlin spike is made of steel more slender than a wooden fid and used to open up the lay of wire rope. Just knew this Navy stuff would come in handy someday. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass, have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 14:44:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:26:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim Atwood" To: , , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NG Mime problems. Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:01:40 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.6140.0> Precedence: bulk This one came blank again. I notice some weirdness with the "!" stuff in the return address. Perhaps Albert or someone else in charge of the list server needs to look at what is happening. -----Original Message----- From: daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, February 22, 1999 11:02 AM Subject: RE: NG Mime problems. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 15:15:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:27:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim Atwood" To: "Glass List" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: HELP recovering payment Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:24:46 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.42446.0> Precedence: bulk A difficult question to answer. Collecting on bad payments seems to be a matter of personality as much as anything else. Personally for a $200 bad payment I would: 1. Talk aggressively, but without being threatening, to the offending party and see if I could get the payment. 2. Depending on who and what the circumstances were, I might warn the other artists in the area about this person. This only works in a small town though - in a large city you can not possibly talk to enough artists to make a difference. 3. Cut my losses. For $200 it would be more effort to make a case in small claims court than the $200 was worth. In Canada the other party can miss two court appointments before the court will give a default judgement on a small claims case at the third court appearence. Anyone who knows this can waste hours and hours of your time before you would even get a judgement. And once you have a judgement you still may have problems collecting. However, several other artists I know would go to small claims court for much smaller amounts just to get back at the person who ripped them off. Others I know would never do any work without at least half the money up front and/or a signed contract. Personally I am quite liberal with extending credit, payment spread out over several months, accepting cheques, verbal contracts, etc. Most of the time the people are very greatful and pay everything properly. I feel I have made a lot of sales by doing this that would have been lost otherwise. I feel the profit I have made from these extra sales more than makes up for the few losses I have had. I know I am in the minority on this one. So every one load up your guns and tell me what an idiot I am for letting these types of people cheat me. However, if you would look at it from an objective business standpoint I think you would find the return on investment from being helpful and flexible about payment for your work more than makes up for any bad payment losses. -----Original Message----- From: KTSPLASH To: 'glass@bungi.com' Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 10:32 PM Subject: HELP recovering payment >Hello Bungians, I've been lurking about watching >and learning from this most excellent group of people. >I am a stained glass hobbyist, just starting to sell items to people > in my area, mostly people I know, but some who have been sent > to me by people I know. >I was wondering have any of you professional people got any advice >for me on taking payments for my work. Obviously at this point I am > not charging anywhere near professional prices, although I hope >some time in the future to be a professional, I am more grateful for > the opportunity to hone my skills. I do charge people at least the >cost of materials, and it seems fair to also charge a bit for my time. >I have a particular fellow who agreed on a price for 6 sidelights for his >home. They measured approx 3'10" by 1' for each sidelight, and were >quite intricate, since I designed them myself - and didn't quite realize >how much work I was creating for myself! We agreed on $900 > Australian (about $1500 US (I think)). Unfortunately, I wasn't >here when he picked them up and when he paid less than agreed, > my boyfriend took him at his word that the remainder ( about >$200 Australian) would be paid. >I think he got a great deal on this, a friend of mine who is a >professional told me the workmanship was very good, and that > for the intricacy of the design etc, if he'd had them done by a >"Proper Professional" he would have been charged much much > more, up to double what we agreed on. >I'm wondering if any one has any advice for me on whether I >should just cut my losses, or if anyone else has had a similar >experience and has a tried and true money-extracting technique!! >Also, any advice for the future on asking for payment? > Should I ask for a percentage up front, or full amount up > front, or a payment scheme such as a payment at beginning, >half way and end? >Lost and getting desperate, >Katie Walters, Qld, Australia. > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 15:46:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:09:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Guaranteeing your work Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:06:18 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.12618.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:summitstudio@worldnet.att.net >I told him that generally my work only lasts for a couple of centuries before you have to throw it out.< Great come-back! Nothing like having history to support your claims! Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 15:47:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:28:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim Atwood" To: "Modiano, Victor" , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: Re: NG Mime problems. Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:57:06 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.5576.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0070_01BE5E6B.3B85F920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This message came through great. -----Original Message----- From: Modiano, Victor To: 'Tim Atwood' ; 'glass@bungi.com' = Date: Monday, February 22, 1999 10:45 AM Subject: RE: NG Mime problems. =20 =20 Tim=20 I am sending this to you direct and through bungi.=20 Mime is turned off and mail is sent in plain text.=20 I noticed that mail sent through bungi arrives back at my system = with as a mime message.=20 Mail sent direct does not.=20 Let me know how the two messages arrive.=20 Vic M.=20 Vmodaino@ctronsoft.com=20 -----Original Message-----=20 From: Tim Atwood [mailto:atwoods@aisl.bc.ca]=20 Sent: Saturday, February 20, 1999 2:02 PM=20 To: Glass List=20 Subject: Re: Beginner classes=20 Yes, I was going to mention it also.=20 daver! is sending messages that are not in plain text. They = are probably in=20 HTML or MIME format. They will not pass through most = gateways or firewalls=20 and may=20 even be being zapped by the list server itself.=20 daver!: change your default format for the glass list = address to "plain=20 text". In MS Outlook Express this is done by setting up the = glass list=20 address in your address book and checking the box "Send = E-mail using plain=20 text only". Similar in Windows Messaging (Exchange). I = don't remember what=20 it is in Eudora, but I do know it is there.=20 Actually for everyone else, this is why my own "came vs. = foil" message=20 turned up missing or strange in most people's mail. I was = on a new laptop=20 and I had not set it up right. Unfortunately I also deleted = the text of the=20 message I sent because I was just borrowing the laptop to = try it out. I=20 don't have time to re-type it right now, so I guess that = particular thread=20 has gone to the great bit bucket in the sky for the = moment...=20 -----Original Message-----=20 From: Goldpaws =20 To: daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@out4.ibm.net=20 =20 Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 8:35 PM=20 Subject: Re: Beginner classes=20 =20 =20 >All of the E-Mails that I receive from you are blank.=20 >Does anyone else have this problem?=20 >Goldpaws=20 >=20 >daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano wrote:=20 >----=20 >For subscription changes, please mail to: = glass-request@bungi.com=20 >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com=20 >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass=20 =20 =20 ----=20 For subscription changes, please mail to: = glass-request@bungi.com=20 To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com=20 Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0070_01BE5E6B.3B85F920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: NG Mime problems.
This message came through = great.
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Modiano, Victor <vmodiano@ctronsoft.com>
= To:=20 'Tim Atwood' <atwoods@aisl.bc.ca>; 'glass@bungi.com' <glass@bungi.com>
Date:=20 Monday, February 22, 1999 10:45 AM
Subject: RE: NG = Mime=20 problems.

Tim

I am sending this to you direct and = through=20 bungi.

Mime is turned off and mail is sent = in plain=20 text.
I noticed that mail = sent through=20 bungi arrives back at my system with as a mime message. =
Mail sent direct does not.

Let me know how the two messages = arrive.=20

Vic M.
Vmodaino@ctronsoft.com

      -----Original=20 Message-----
      From:   Tim Atwood [mailto:atwoods@aisl.bc.ca]<= /B>=20
      Sent:   Saturday, February 20, 1999 2:02 = PM
      =20
      To:     Glass List
      Subject:       =20 Re: Beginner classes

      Yes, I was going to mention = it=20 also.

      daver! is sending messages = that are not=20 in plain text.  They are probably in
      HTML or MIME format.  They will = not pass=20 through most gateways or firewalls
      and may
      even = be being=20 zapped by the list server itself.

      daver!: change your default = format for=20 the glass list address to "plain
      text".  In MS Outlook Express this is = done by=20 setting up the glass list
      address=20 in your address book and checking the box "Send E-mail = using=20 plain
      text = only". =20 Similar in Windows Messaging (Exchange).  I don't = remember=20 what
      it is in Eudora, = but I do=20 know it is there.

      Actually for everyone else, = this is why=20 my own "came vs. foil" message
      turned up missing or strange in most people's = mail.  I=20 was on a new laptop
      and I had not=20 set it up right.  Unfortunately I also deleted the text = of=20 the
      message I sent = because I was=20 just borrowing the laptop to try it out.  I =
      don't have time to re-type it right = now, so I=20 guess that particular thread
      has=20 gone to the great bit bucket in the sky for the = moment...=20

      -----Original = Message-----=20
      From: Goldpaws=20 <gmanning@banet.net>
      To:=20 daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@out4.ibm.net
      <daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@out4.ibm.net>=20
      Date: Friday, February 19, = 1999 8:35=20 PM
      Subject: Re: = Beginner=20 classes


      >All of the E-Mails that I = receive  from you are blank.
      >Does anyone else have this problem? =
      >Goldpaws
      >
      >daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano wrote: =
      >----
      >For subscription changes, please mail to:=20 glass-request@bungi.com
      >To=20 send to the list,      please mail = to:=20 glass@bungi.com
      >Archives=20 available at http://www.bungi.com/glass =


      ----
      For subscription changes, please mail to:=20 glass-request@bungi.com
      To send=20 to the list,      please mail to:=20 glass@bungi.com
      Archives=20 available at http://www.bungi.com/glass=20

------=_NextPart_000_0070_01BE5E6B.3B85F920-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 15:58:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:09:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Carol Swann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: HELP recovering payment Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:06:26 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.12626.0> Precedence: bulk I would call a few more times, ask for payment, then chalk it up to experience... we're not talking a king's ransom here and I can easily ear= n $200 doing a day's worth of work. (Something my husband frequently suggests I try doing when I've spent a few hours on the computer!) Cheerio, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 16:09:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:40:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bardstown.com!glassx From: "Glass Expressions" To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: looking for a racehorse and jockey pattern Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:41:42 +0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb23.14142.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE5E8A.9BDCF700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've looked everyplace I can think of for a patter for racehorse and = jockey could someone refeer me to a place I may find one or an etching = of one. I'll watch for a response. Thanks to all of you which put all = the great info on the page for us newbies! Thanks again Ricky ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE5E8A.9BDCF700 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I've looked everyplace I can think = of for a=20 patter for racehorse and jockey could someone refeer me to a place I may = find=20 one or an etching of one.   I'll watch for a response.  = Thanks to=20 all of you which put all the great info on the page for us = newbies!  Thanks=20 again Ricky
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE5E8A.9BDCF700-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 16:16:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:55:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: mobiles Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:55:13 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.125513.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" >I am curious as to what the best material to string mobiles together wit= h is. I have been trying to use fishing line, and am pretty much fed up wi= th it. I had been looking for a thin, very flexible wire like string, but just haven't found the right thing. Is there anything in particular that y'all use? (like mah accent?!) Also, do you have any suggestions on what to use for the balancing bars o= f the mobile. I've used glass in some cases, but really want a thin metal that I can twist each end into a tiny loop with.< Love your accent, dear. I just got back from the Buyer's Market of American Craft show (also known in the wholesale business as the Rosen show), and mobiles were very 'hot' there. One guy said he uses twisted steel wire for hanging his mobiles. Some folk use wooden mobile balancing bars, some use acrylic, some use copper tubing. Sounds to me like copper or brass rods or tubing bent into the shapes you desire are what you're after. Good luck. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 16:25:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:22:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cyberportal.net!dmj From: "Dean Johnson" To: "Bungi List" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Kiln for slumping & fusing Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:22:04 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.13224.0> References: <<1999Feb22.83131.0>> Precedence: bulk Dear K Check out the Jen-Ken kilns sold by Marty Daily at Center DeVerre http://www.cdvkiln.com/ Marty sells to glass artists at prices considerable below retail (an even some wholesale) prices. Elizabeth Johnson dmj@cyberportal.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 16:34:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:56:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: HELP recovering payment Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:55:15 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.125515.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:gunnx4@ix.netcom.com >How long do *you* guarantee your work? What exactly does that guarantee= cover? < I guarantee my work for 5 years from installation. I really didn't put into writing exactly what that guarantee covers, so I've got a legal hole to fill in! Thanks for pointing that out to me! Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 16:38:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:56:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Book for slumping & fusing Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:55:37 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.125537.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "ATF Distribution Center-K. See" >Also, of all the books on fusing et al...what would you recommend?< I love the "Creative Glass Techniques" by Eberle. See my review of the book in the Fall 1997 issue of "Common Ground:Glass" magazine (from IGGA). Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 16:44:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:13:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Back o' the Boat Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:45:48 +0000 Message-ID: <199902222238.RAA02757@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Let's get our nomenclature squared away! I'll say! I always walk to the back of the boat and toss my line off the left-hand side. Doesn't everyone? Glass line, of course. A, who's not at the front of the class, boatwise ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 16:47:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:50:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: fume traps Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:53:50 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.75350.0> References: <<199902221347_MC2-6B58-72@compuserve.com>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk Monona Rossol wrote: > > > I would really like to see a good write-up about air filtering for > > the studio... something that compares everything from an > > open window and small fume traps, furnace/airconditioner filters, > > to HEPA systems one can buy at Sears and full-blown industrial > > strength systems. What's available out there between $50 and > > $5,000 and how well do they work? < > > Well, that's no article, its a book--maybe two. > > First you have to educate readers to the difference between: > > gases, > vapors, > fumes, > respirable dusts (under 10 microns in diameter), > non-respirable dusts (over 10 microns in diameter), and > mists (all sizes). > > Without understanding these air contaminants, you don't have a clue which > system or filter to use. And in stained glass work ALL these types of > contaminants are generated from various processes. > > Then you need to explain the difference between types of ventilation: > natural/passive ventilation, recirculating systems, dilution systems, and > local exhaust systems. > > > And how do you pronounce H-E-P-A? ;-)< > > Hep-ah will do it. Stands for "high efficiency particulate air." In > fact, HEPA filters would give you a good example of the complexity of this > subject. > > Gases and vapors will go right through HEPAs. For example, acid gases such > as hydrochloric acid and other gases from fluxes are not captured. Vapors > from solvent products wont be captured by HEPAs either. > > HEPAs are "particulate" filters that will capture particles of 0.3 microns in > diameter and larger. Unfortunately there are now three types of HEPAs, 95% > HEPAs, 99% HEPAs, and 100% HEPAs which actually capture 99.97% of particles > 0.3 microns in diameter. > > A full 100% HEPA is always required when lead is involved. However lead > fume from soldering is not all over 0.3 microns in size and so a little will > go through. Pigments often have a mean diameter smaller than 0.3 (0.1 > microns is common) so capture often is not complete. > > HEPAs are very good for most fine sanding and grinding dusts, most abrasive > blasting dusts, most powdered materials (except pigments), and mists of over > 0.3 microns provided the system as a liquid resistant prefilter. > > That's only part of what you need to know about the HEPA. > > Next, you need to know how to evaluate the system it is in: how good is the > hood's capture; the rate of the air flow through the filter; the power of > the system as the filter begins to fill; and tons more. A HEPA filter system > can be useless if these other factors are not taken into account. > > In other words if the expensive HEPA is in a cheap system, it still may be > useless. > > And the HEPA is the best filter. Air conditioning and furnace filters are > for crumbs and flies--useless for any of the toxic substances produced in > stained glass. And there are many other grades of filters. > > The only way to handle this subject in a magazine is to cover one little part > of the story at a time on a continuing basis. This is why I write books. > > Monona -- x>"3 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 17:26:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:51:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bigpond.com!ktsplash From: ktsplash To: "'Mosfunland@aol.com'" , "Bungi List (E-mail)" Subject: RE: HELP recovering payment Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:58:09 +1000 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.20589.0> Precedence: bulk Maureen, the thought has definitely crossed my mind! What a shame a remote control "break" line can't be installed, something like a "this window will self-destruct", that could be activated by the creator if payment didn't occur! I dunno, we can put a man on the moon..... -----Original Message----- From: Mosfunland@aol.com [SMTP:Mosfunland@aol.com] Sent: Monday, February 22, 1999 3:20 AM To: ktsplash@bigpond.com Subject: Re: HELP recovering payment well if he didn't pay, i'd drive by and toss a rock thru at least one of them....... I'd feel better.....LOL Maureen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 17:51:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:33:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: HELP recovering payment Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:38:03 +0000 Message-ID: <199902230130.UAA05560@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > 3. Cut my losses. For $200 it would be more effort to make a case in small > claims court than the $200 was worth. Yup. That's why they do it. In one of my previous incarnations, while at university, I was a summons server for a minute or two (until I had a snubnose .38 pointed at my head). Most of the services were in the richest parts of town. Think about it. (After the .38 experience ... immediately afterward ... I looked for other means of supporting myself, thank you.) Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 18:06:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:33:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ghostman.com!candy From: "Candy Thurman" To: "glass@bungi.com" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Bio #90 Candy Thurman Date: Mon, 22 Feb 99 18:32:02 Message-ID: <199902230132.SAA11621@mantis.privatei.com> Precedence: bulk Well, Shirley, the foil turned green and crusty... I tried steel wool (lots of little shavings everywhere, including *in* my fingers) and the foil didn't take the solder well.. I ended up getting some liquid flux and putting it on and letting it set for about 10 min and scraping it off and then soldering.. which worked but still took 4-10 times longer than if I'd just soldered the thing.. The lamp was an original design 19" shade.. and I'm still proud of it! (it's somewhere in Oregon).. Candy On Sun, 21 Feb 1999 06:11:15 EST, SGriffiSBG@aol.com wrote: >This is for Candy: you mentioned in your bio (which was very entertaining >btw) that you discovered why a foiled piece should not be left too long before >soldering. Please tell me why as I am beginning to solder my first project >but due to flu etc. it has been sitting for about 3 weeks. I have been >questioning whether I should go over all the pieces with steel wool (1000 >grit) before soldering. I'm a newbe (poor excuse). :-) Help. Thanks. Shirley >G >---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 18:18:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:34:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Shirley Balloch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: fume traps Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:38:41 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.133841.0> References: <<1999Feb22.75350.0>> Precedence: bulk > > The only way to handle this subject in a magazine is to cover one little part > > of the story at a time on a continuing basis. This is why I write books. > > > > Monona Ok..here is a question from the simple minded. How about just making a recommendation? ;o) Tulsa Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 18:29:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:35:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Got an idea Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:33:54 -0800 Message-ID: <199902230133.RAA09074@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk Hi Shirley...not Howard here, but I have a few thoughts anyway. You need to add a harp to the lamp to support the lampshade...and you can design whatever you want to go on the side panels. The main thing I am concerned about though is how much the base weighs? If it's wood the lamp would probably be very top heavy and tip over very easily. If you have a good solid wood base, you can probably countersink several large holes into it without jeopardizing its integrity. Get yourself a little forge to melt lead and fill up the holes with lead plugs to provide a weighted base. Don't know about putting an intricate design on just one panel...if that would affect balance and cause the lamp to tip over. That is indeed a Howard question. Offhand though, a simpler, and more decorative solution would be to have 2 galleon panels opposite each other and two plain panels opposite each other. And I think the thingies you describe are called marlinspikes. (Unless those are the thingies used for braiding wire rope...never been a sailer...always a power boater). C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 18:34:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:41:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bigpond.com!ktsplash From: ktsplash To: "Bungi List (E-mail)" Subject: HELP recovering payment - UPDATE! Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:21:56 +1000 Message-ID: <1999Feb23.212156.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Bungians. I want to let you all know how helpful all of your input was. After receiving such valuable advice, I can guarantee that I'll be thinking far more about this side of things in the future, and acting far more professionally, not only for my own interests, but also, as so many Bungians pointed out, for the sake of other SG artists. SO the update! I used a combination of approaches here. I had, before I'd posted my original question, called the fellow a number of times, using the time-honoured approach that "you catch more flies with honey..." but after receiving some of the replies here, I decided to try again, this time with "more balls." (Thanks Carol!) I called him again, heard him telling his kid to tell me he was not home, got very cranky, and became determined not to be deterred again. I called again later, and this time, when again he "wasn't home" I got him where it hurts - his wife! When I left her with a message, it turned out she was VERY interested to discover that her Christmas present hadn't been paid for. I told her that there seemed to be some misunderstanding, and that should payment not arrive this week, I would be coming to pick up the unpaid-for panels. PAYMENT ARRIVED TODAY!!!! Again, I want to thank you all very much. Without exception, all of your responses were helpful. I shall continue to hang around watching and learning, with your permission. Perhaps one day I shall be able to return the favour! On a side note, I haven't seen any other Australians on this list? Are there any? Have I got the inside edge on other Australians in Stained Glass because I have discovered this little fountain of knowledge and reference called Bungi? Tee Hee Katie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 18:50:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:45:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: ktsplash Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: HELP recovering payment Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:49:14 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.134914.0> References: <<1999Feb22.20589.0>> Precedence: bulk > Maureen, the thought has definitely crossed my mind! What a shame a remote > control "break" line can't be installed, something like a "this window will > self-destruct", that could be activated by the creator if payment didn't > occur! I dunno, we can put a man on the moon..... I would consider that if a person is dishonest, they are probably better at *getting back*. I'd stear clear of em. What goes around comes around. T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 19:03:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:38:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Kiln for slumping & fusing Date: Mon Feb 22 18:37:03 1999 Message-ID: <1999Feb23.16153.0> Precedence: bulk K See, For incorporating fused/slumped pieces into your stained glass work, your choice of the Evenheat GT 14-6 is a good one. You may also want to check the pricing on the Paragon GF7B & the Jen-Ken G-18 or GS-11-E (all at 120V) which are similar yet a little different. Concerning books, the classics are always a good start: "The Fused Glass Handbook" by Gil Reynolds & "Kiln Firing Glass - Book One" by Boyce Lundstrem; followed by "Creative Glass Techniques" by Bettina Eberle & "Fusing Fun" by Carolyn Kyle & Chuck Berets. After gaining some experience, I have re-read these books 2 to 3 times over. However, my suggestion is to get a kiln at the price and voltage(120/240) that you feel you can afford and start burning some glass. After 6 months of failures & successes of fusing/slumping/sagging of Spectrum, Bullseye, Urobosos,and every other scrap piece of glass you have on hand, you will have a better idea of where you want to go. BTW: Once you're comfortable with slumping glass, you may want to investigate the Sun Sculpture books & molds for incorporating slumped glass with your stained glass work. ~ Gary Kleeman -----Original Message----- From: ATF Distribution Center-K. See To: bungi Date: Monday, February 22, 1999 2:13 PM Subject: Kiln for slumping & fusing >I have decided to bite the bullet & get a kiln. > >I plan on slumping glass & fusing designs to incorporate into my pieces. > >I don't want to limit myself by starting off too small (cause I know >myself) so I'm thinking something like the Evenheat 14" floor kiln >w/pyrometer. 120V > >Also, of all the books on fusing et al...what would you recommend? > >I need suggestions & recommendations > >TIA >K See ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 19:20:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:17:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: fume traps Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:21:26 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.102126.0> References: <<36D206A1.3500@ix.netcom.com>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk Isent Dani's question onto Monona, so the response was to me and I in turn sent it back to bungi. She really is the one to ask. 75054.2542@compuserve.com Monona Rossol, industrial hygienist Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety 181 Thompson St., # 23 New York NY 10012-2586 212/777-0062 Suzanne wrote: > > > > The only way to handle this subject in a magazine is to cover one little part > > > of the story at a time on a continuing basis. This is why I write books. > > > > > > Monona > > Ok..here is a question from the simple minded. > > How about just making a recommendation? ;o) > > Tulsa Suzanne > -- > "Winning isn't always finishing first. > Sometimes winning is just finishing." > Manuel Diotte -- x>"3 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 19:25:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:50:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Mad Dog address Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:54:38 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.105438.0> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk I have been looking for their email address for 2 hours and am getting the sinking feeling they are not on the web. Could anyone give me their 800 #? Thanks in advance. Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 19:37:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:56:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Albert Lewis" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Back o' the Boat Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:53:36 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.165336.0> Precedence: bulk Never having found my sea legs, I won't even begin to describe what *I to= ss off the side of the boat! Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 19:50:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:01:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: ktsplash Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: HELP recovering payment - UPDATE! Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:05:36 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.15536.0> References: <<1999Feb23.212156.0>> Precedence: bulk Hey, I think that deserves a "Yeeehaaaaw! What a crumb of a guy teaching his son that way. Cracks me up about the wife. Glad to hear you got your payment. T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 19:54:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:17:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: NG-Vic's Surgery Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:20:17 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.112017.0> Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk Vic I believe you said your slated for surgery this tuesday, which would be tomorrow. So if that is the day then I wish you a good day and speedy recovery!! Pam -- ********************************* Pamela Burns-Tappan Executive Director The Stained Glass Artists http://fly.to/The_Stained_Glass_Artists Moswood Mountain Limited http://come.to/moswood_mountain_limited http://start.at/MML_Web_Design1 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 20:13:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:18:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: stained glass mart Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:22:07 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.11227.0> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk I found this site and thought I would share. http://www.glassmart.com/links.html Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 20:23:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:00:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: GreerStudios@compuserve.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Glass Instructors Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 22:52:04 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.17524.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Dani, Fact is that I am not an IGGA member. I dropped by the web site yesterday to poke around some and will probably join soon though. I have always felt that the idea of setting standards is a good one but have also wondered how you go about getting the fact that there are set standards and approved teachers in front of the people who need to know about it. (The ones who run the adult ed programs as well as the prospective students.) If they are unaware of the program they will blissfully continue to hire incompetent instructors. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:01:24 -0500 Dani Greer writes: >Gary- > >Maybe you could be part of the IGGA advisory committee to help >write some teacher certification standards. Certainly, it makes >sense that real teachers be part of the standardizing crew. Any >other teachers out there that would be interested in some organized >brainstorming? And to do some serious research as to how other >certification programs got started? > >Best regards, > >Dani Greer >Greer Gallery & Studios > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 20:37:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:10:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: NON GLASSRe: Deer Son Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:02:24 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.12224.0> References: <<36D224B9.6F0B@netbridge.net>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk Sorry, just couldn't resist sharing this. > > > "Dear Son: I'm not saying that you 'do' sleep with Julie, > > > and I'm not saying that you 'do not' sleep with Julie. But the > > > fact remains that if she was sleeping in her own bed, she > > > would have found the gravy ladle by now. Love, Mom" > > > > > > Lesson of the day... Don't Lie To Your Mother. > And this one is from a friend of Grandma and Grandpa's > Deer Son > I am writeing this slow cause i know you can't read very fast. > We don't live where we did when you left. Dad read in the paper where > most accidents happen within 20 miles of home, so we moved. > i want be able to send you the address, As the last Alabama family that > lived here took the numbers so they wouldn't have to change there > address. > This place has a washing machine. The first day i put 4 shirts in it, > pulled the chain and haven't seen them since. > it only rained twice this week. three days the first time and 4 days > the second time. > The coat you wanted me to send you. your Aunt Sue said it would be a > little to heavy to send in the mail with them heavy buttons, so we cut > them off and put them in the pockets. > We got a bill from the funeral home. said if we didn't make the last > payment on Grandma's funeral bill, up she comes. > About your father.......he has a new job. He has over 500 men up under > him. He is cuttin the grass at the cematary. > About your sister......She had a baby this morning. I haven't found out > if its a boy or a girl. so i don't know if your an anunt or uncle. > your Uncle John fell in the whiskey vat. Some men tired to pull him > out. but he fought them off playfully, so he drowned. We cremated him, > he burned 3 days. > three of your friends went off the bridge in a pickup. One was driveing > the other two were in the back. The driver got out, he rolled down the > window and swam away. the other two drowned, they couldn't get the > tailgate down. > Not much more news this time, nothin much has really happend > Love Mom > p.s. i was going to send you money, but the envelope was already sealed ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 20:52:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:17:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Shirley Balloch" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Mad Dog address Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:12:53 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.121253.0> Precedence: bulk Mad Dog Stained Glass Supplies, 7122 Gerald Ave., Van Nuys, CA. 91406, 800 423-3698, FAX 818 782-3213. Wholesale only, great service, catalog items kept in stock, fast shipping, etc.. If you live within 1000 miles of Mad Dog it might just pay you to have an account. First order $250.00, thereafter $50.00. Tops on my list. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass, have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Feb 22 21:04:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:30:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Mad Dog address Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:35:35 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.123535.0> References: <<001f01be5ee2$c9e1f080$dd839cd1@default>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk Thanks Bob, I feel the same way about them. Shirley B Bob E Duchesneau wrote: > > Mad Dog Stained Glass Supplies, 7122 Gerald Ave., Van Nuys, CA. 91406, > 800 423-3698, FAX 818 782-3213. > > Wholesale only, great service, catalog items kept in stock, fast > shipping, etc.. > > If you live within 1000 miles of Mad Dog it might just pay you to have > an account. First order $250.00, thereafter $50.00. Tops on my list. > Bob > > Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 > Think glass, have class. -- x>"3 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 02:23:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 02:13:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Mad Dog address Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 05:19:46 +0000 Message-ID: <199902231012.FAA08973@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > I have been looking for their email address for 2 hours and am getting > the sinking feeling they are not on the web. > Could anyone give me their 800 #? Just a reminder, Shirley, that when it comes to sources, the Guild's Sources Guide at http://igga.org/guide.htm is updated several times a week: Mad Dog Stained Glass, 7122 Gerald Avenue, Van Nuys CA 91406. Phone: (818) 782-1514. (800) 423-3698. Fax: (818) 782-3213. Distributor, full line wholesale. Direct importer of bevel clusters. Known for fast and accurate shipping of a wide variety of competitively priced tools and supplies. Everything needed to maintain the well-equipped studio or retail store. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 05:58:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 05:29:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: email.msn.com!eastgatexx From: "Alan Terry" To: "Glass@Bungi.com" Subject: Re: HELP recovering payment - UPDATE! Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 05:23:14 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb22.212314.0> Precedence: bulk After a week of invisibly enjoying all the Bungi threads -- I've had to respond to this one. Congratulations! I also loved the part about the kid and the wife. I'm a sucker for a happy ending. (The fact that I live and work in the L.A. film industry might have something to do with that.) Good work on this (and all) threads on the bungi.com! Alan Terry -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne To: ktsplash Date: Monday, February 22, 1999 7:54 PM Subject: Re: HELP recovering payment - UPDATE! >Hey, I think that deserves a "Yeeehaaaaw! > >What a crumb of a guy teaching his son that way. >Cracks me up about the wife. Glad to hear you got >your payment. > >T Suz >-- >"Winning isn't always finishing first. >Sometimes winning is just finishing." >Manuel Diotte >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 06:28:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 06:01:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tripos.com!rammann From: Rachel Ammann To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: slumping & fusing books Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:02:05 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb23.225.0> References: <<1999Feb22.83131.0>> Precedence: bulk The best all around book for beginners is by Gil Reynolds - the Fusing Handbook. You can get it from Gil's company : Fusion headquarters http://www.teleport.com/~glaswiz. He carries other books too. Boyce Lundstrom's books (there are 3) are better for people who have already gotten started. Try amazon.com to buy the books. Gil may also sell them. Henry Halem's book (Glass Notes) is technical but great if you're advanced. http://www.glassnotes.com, ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 07:01:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 06:39:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; Subject: NG Know Your Customer Act. Date: Tue Feb 23 06:39:06 1999 Message-ID: <1999Feb24.4176.0> Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5F38.5AD7ACA6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" In the spirit of Bob (Shy Guy) the Dinosaur and other paranoid people: The FDIC Has proposed that your bank report "unusual" transactions to the Feds. You know, like, if you get a dividend check, or a birthday present, or anything else that doesn't happen on a monthly basis. They consider these "criminal activities". The comment period continues until March 8th. You may wish to view the act itself and let them know what you think... http://www.fdic.gov/lawsregs/fedr/98knocus.txt http://www.fdic.gov/banknews/know.html If you read the letter at the above site you will notice the standards set forth are vague. Is a large amount $100 or $1000. Most importantly the drug dealers/money launderers can set up regular month deposits and avoid notice under this ruling. What this may mean to hobbyist/non-professionals is that every time you accept a check the bank will tell the Feds. The same rule seems to apply to commercial accounts. I know I'd have a difficult time explaining every check that hit my account. Nothing illegal just who remembers what a check was for six months after the fact. It would also seem that this may be used as justification for an investigation when no other cause exists. Me paranoid? Maybe. But having seen and heard first hand accounts of governments in action it is justifiable. I expect that Bob would have said this is just the government poking its nose where it does not belong. Check it out for yourself and feel free to E-mail the FDIC an opinion. Vic M. Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5F38.5AD7ACA6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable NG Know Your Customer Act.

In the spirit of Bob (Shy Guy) the = Dinosaur and other paranoid people:
The FDIC Has proposed that your bank = report "unusual" transactions to the Feds. You know, like, if you get a = dividend check, or a birthday present, or anything else that doesn't = happen on a monthly basis. They consider these "criminal = activities".

The comment period continues until = March 8th. You may wish to
view the act itself and let them know = what you think...
http://www.fdic.gov/lawsregs/fedr/98knocus.txt=
http://www.fdic.gov/banknews/know.html

If you read the letter at the above = site you will notice the standards set forth are vague. Is a large = amount $100 or $1000.

Most importantly the drug = dealers/money launderers can set up regular month deposits and avoid = notice under this ruling.  

What this may mean to = hobbyist/non-professionals is that every time you accept a check the = bank will tell the Feds. The same rule seems to apply to commercial = accounts. I know I'd have a difficult time explaining every check that = hit my account. Nothing illegal just who remembers what a check was for = six months after the fact. It would also seem that this may be used as = justification for an investigation when no other cause = exists.

Me paranoid? Maybe. But having seen = and heard first hand accounts of governments in action it is = justifiable.

I expect that Bob would have said this = is just the government poking its nose where it does not belong.  =

Check it out for yourself and feel = free to E-mail the FDIC an opinion.

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com

------_=_NextPart_001_01BE5F38.5AD7ACA6-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 08:06:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 07:32:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: RE: Hot Glass Repair help Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:31:05 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb23.5315.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Dean Johnson" >The broken ends should be heated by a lampworker in a torch and melted together. Since no new glass would be added, there would be no compatibility problem. If the lampworker is skilful, he/she should be ab= le to sculpt and smooth the joint so that it is invisible, and the bonded ar= ea will be as strong as the original unbroken glass.< I hadn't thought about trying a lampworker for fixing these. I do have a local (sort of) lampworker and beadmaker who might be able to help. I've called her & left a message. We will discuss it and then I'll see if she can do it, or if I'm stuck going the UV glue route. BTW, purchased a black light last night at Spencers Gifts at the mall. They don't take company checks. Blech. Hate that stuff. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 08:29:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 07:47:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!charles_spitzer From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: copper sulfate Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:40:53 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990223084053.00ac7200@atlas2.az.stratus.com> References: <<"1999Feb21.0531.0*"@MHS>> Precedence: bulk At 07:05 PM 2/20/99 -0500, you wrote: >Jerri, >I have had a bottle of copper patina for over 10 years now and it is still >fine. Have you been contaminating your patina? If you use the patina >directly from the bottle, you will surely contaminate the entire contents in >no time at all. I always pour a small amount into a tiny (plastic) container >and use it from there. Any patina that is left over is disposed of and NOT >poured back into the original patina container. Hope this helps. >Lenore >PS I really like the idea of mixing your own patina from crystals!! Let me >know how you like it. it is a lot cheaper than buying patina in a shop. you're buying mostly water if you buy premixed patina. about 8 years ago, i bought 500 grams of copper sulfate crystals for about $10. you can get it at a chemical supply house. that's probably enough to make 5 gallons of patina, or roughly a lifetime supply for me. regards, charlie phx, az -- Charles Spitzer Stratus Computer, Inc Speaking from Stratus, not for Stratus, Ascend, or Lucent ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 08:40:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:09:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: 75054.2542@compuserve.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: fume traps Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:01:52 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb23.16152.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/22/99 10:21:04 PM, balloch@netbridge.net wrote: >I sent Dani's question onto Monona, so the response was to me and I in >turn sent it back to bungi. >She really is the one to ask. >75054.2542@compuserve.com > >> > > The only way to handle this subject in a magazine is to cover one little part >> > > of the story at a time on a continuing basis. This is why I write books. >> > > >> > > Monona A coupla questions: 1. What's in those respirator canisters these days? Used to be activated charcoal/carbon, I think. 2. How does a HEPA filter system compare with an electrostatic system in getting rid of particulates, vapor droplets, etc.? ---------Sparks (a chemist in a *very* former life that's now been mostly relegated to the "repressed memories" section of my brain) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 09:39:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:54:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!charles_spitzer From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: latest Glass Craftsman articles Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 09:45:54 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990223094554.00b518b0@atlas2.az.stratus.com> References: <<3.0.6.32.19990217101721.009f0750@atlas2.az.stratus.com>> Precedence: bulk well, note that i said frame, not reinforced. he did this to make his frame. it was for freestanding panels. he also stated that he has dropped his panels on this edge, and the edge crumpled but no glass broke. seems a good idea to me. also note: how is this different from your wire idea below? both ways makes a frame to hang the panel from. i also think he doesn't do this for small panels, just larger ones, and it takes the place of rebar or restrip internal to the lines. since the steel he adds to the edge won't fold, then you don't need to have other reinforcement especially if it has fold lines in the pattern. you might want to read the article first before commenting upon it. regards, charlie At 02:50 PM 2/20/99 +0000, you wrote: >I'm sure I will be told that something is wrong with me, but I can't see >the necessity of putting steel inside two cames on the perimeter of a >panel. > I'm getting really boring on this subject probably, but... >1. there is no additional strength added across the panel by >perimeter reinforcing >2. There are quicker ways of "reinforcing" so a panel can be hung. >One of them is to put twisted brass wire (picture hanging wire for >example) around the outside of the perimeter came next to the heart. >Then fold the outer leaves of the came together, so trapping the brass >wire. Solder the ends of the wire together, and if you have allowed the >wire to come out at the top of the panel, you have a wire to hang at one >or two points. This supports the panel as it goes *completely around* >the panel without breaks. > This would be for a big panel. A smaller panel of 1-2 square >feet (not feet square), can be supported by two copper ties about 2 >inches long soldered to the side of the heart of the perimeter lead. >3. If the panel needs reinforcing, it needs it across the panel. >The reinforcing should follow major "fold" lines across the panel, >whether in lead came or in copper foil. If your panel is "floppy" it >will remain so whether you put zinc, or steel encased in lead came on >the perimeter. Perimeter reinforcing does not strengthen the panel >internally, it just makes you feel better, because the edges are rigid. >Well, that isn't going to help much if the panel is not properly >supported across its width or height. > >Now, I have to admit that I haven't seen the article, so I am not >criticising the author or what was written, Just criticising the >concept. Because I think it is *Wrong* This may be a one person >crusade, but I haven't been discouraged from continuing it so far. > >Steve in Scotland >So, I'm far enough away! > > >In message <3.0.6.32.19990217101721.009f0750@atlas2.az.stratus.com>, >Charles Spitzer writes >>Nice pictures of some of Oddy's work, along with a good article on framing >>using lead came + steel rod. >> >>regards, >>charlie >>phx, az >>-- >>Charles Spitzer >>Stratus Computer, Inc >>Speaking from Stratus, not for Stratus, Ascend, or Lucent >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > >-- >Steve Richard >Verrier Art Glass Ltd >s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk > > -- Charles Spitzer Stratus Computer, Inc Speaking from Stratus, not for Stratus, Ascend, or Lucent ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 10:05:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 09:28:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: fume traps Date: Tue Feb 23 09:27:38 1999 Message-ID: <1999Feb24.7538.0> Precedence: bulk how many bio's does this mean we get, now? i have lost count debbie taylor kleeman@one.net http://www.taylordexpressions.com your complete stained glass supply source 1-888-488-9616 -----Original Message----- From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: 75054.2542@compuserve.com <75054.2542@compuserve.com> Date: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 11:49 AM Subject: Re: fume traps > >In a message dated 2/22/99 10:21:04 PM, balloch@netbridge.net wrote: > >>I sent Dani's question onto Monona, so the response was to me and I in >>turn sent it back to bungi. >>She really is the one to ask. >>75054.2542@compuserve.com >> >>> > > The only way to handle this subject in a magazine is to cover one >little part >>> > > of the story at a time on a continuing basis. This is why I write >books. >>> > > >>> > > Monona > >A coupla questions: > >1. What's in those respirator canisters these days? Used to be activated > charcoal/carbon, I think. > >2. How does a HEPA filter system compare with an electrostatic system in > getting rid of particulates, vapor droplets, etc.? > > > ---------Sparks (a chemist in a *very* former life that's now been > mostly relegated to the "repressed memories" > section of my brain) >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 11:13:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:32:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim Atwood" To: "Glass List" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: HELP recovering payment Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:09:24 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb23.2924.0> Precedence: bulk Adriana says exactly the same thing about me. She tells me if I actually spent more time doing the work, rather than sitting on the computer talking about it or designing ideas I will never get around to making, I might actually make a living doing this stuff. -----Original Message----- From: Dani Greer To: Carol Swann Date: Monday, February 22, 1999 5:04 PM Subject: Re: HELP recovering payment >I would call a few more times, ask for payment, then chalk it up to >experience... we're not talking a king's ransom here and I can easily ear= >n >$200 doing a day's worth of work. (Something my husband frequently >suggests I try doing when I've spent a few hours on the computer!) > >Cheerio, > >Dani Greer >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 12:12:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:42:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim Atwood" To: "Glass List" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: What's in a Name? Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:40:13 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb23.34013.0> Precedence: bulk Some astute person actually noticed I am now using a different company name than on my IGGA membership. Yes - I changed the name. I would be curious what people think about how important a company name is. I do not even use the company name most of the time. I tend to use my own name. But when I did use the old comapny name it seemed to cause problems. The old name was "The Clearing Arts" (or "The Clearing Glass Studio" when I wanted to emphasize just the glass side of my work). In either case, no one seemed to be able to remember it. Several people seemed to feel the name had an unprofessional feel to it. The old name came from the beautiful clearing in the forest where my studio and home are located. I also liked the images of clearing sky, clearing your mind, etc. However, many people said they first thought of a "clearing house" where junk nobody wanted was sold for cheap prices. The new name is "Holtenwood Architectural Detailing". Or actually just "Holtenwood" on the business cards with "Architectural Detailing" in smaller letters just below. The name Holtenwood is the same starting name as our art gallery "Holtenwood Gallery". The art gallery has had that name since we moved it to Texada Island two years ago and the name seems to work very well. People remember it and seem to get a good feeling from it. At first I thought it would not work since the name really does not mean anything. People would not have anything to tie it to so they would not remember it. But the opposite seems to be true - since it is not a word they have heard before they remember it. Also since it is not a real word people do not seem to tie bad images to it. The name Holtenwood comes from a combination of my own and my wife's last names. My wife's maiden name is "van Holten" and mine is "Atwood", therefore "Holtenwood". Including Adriana in the name seems appropriate since she is often critical in designing the overall look of an installation. I am good at the individual pieces and the detail level, but I often overlook how everything will work together when installed. (Weird and kind of cool coincidence: In Dutch "holten" means wood as in a small forest. Therefore "van Holten" means "from the wood". "Atwood" of course means "at the wood". So Adriana and I were born with the same last names - just two different languages. And "Holtenwood" comes down to meaning "wood wood".) The other half of the name "Architectural Detailing" comes because I want to emphasize more than just the glass work. My first love and where I started as a craftsman was working in wood. I also do some metal work (custom door and cabinet handles), and I have even done tile work in one case to tie a tiled bath into a stained glass and cabinet installation. Since I seem to use a company name mostly when working with architects or builders, I felt this was a good side to emphasize. I also wanted to indicate I did not do entire buildings or actual building design, just the finishing touches. However, I did not want to use "finishing" as in "architectural finishing" since this seemed to imply just finish cabinet work or finish carpentry. And in reality I could not come up with any other term which was nebulous enough to fit most of what I do but still sounded like something real. Note: For stand alone "art" pieces and/or spec pieces I generally use just my own name, Timothy Atwood, since these are mostly sold through our art gallery and I feel an individuals name is best here. So what do people think? Does a name make a difference? When do you use a company name and when do you use your own? What about the particulars of my new comapny name? Was I stupid to change it? Is the new one goofy or does it work? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 13:15:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:51:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: NG Know Your Customer Act. Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:55:50 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb23.45550.0> References: <<1999Feb24.4176.0>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk Could you repost this in text only. I tried to contact you off group, but kept getting failed mail. Thanks. Shirley B daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano wrote: -- x>"3 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 13:39:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:04:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What's in a Name? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:34:57 +0000 Message-ID: <199902232027.PAA16364@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > So what do people think? Does a name make a difference? When do you use a > company name and when do you use your own? What about the particulars of my > new comapny name? Was I stupid to change it? Is the new one goofy or does > it work? Since I made the change to Tim's studio's name a few minutes ago, I'm glad of the opportunity to say how I reacted to it. I thought it had a very nice ring to it, evoking "Jane Eyre" as it did for me and the large manse one sees in the original Wellsian version. I thought it sounded very professional, although I can relate to the reference to the clearing in the woods, Tim mentions. At the same time, since it was confusing (or could be confused with) in the sense that some associated it with bargain basement references, I think the new name is much better. Personally, I've always wondered that some studios take such a flip attitude toward their company's name, sometimes even putting a salacious spin on it. No offense to any who operate as "A Nice Piece of Glass," but I wonder about names like that and what potential clients might think. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 14:43:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:26:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!HiimLaura From: HiimLaura@aol.com To: atwoods@aisl.bc.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: What's in a Name? Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:16:37 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb23.211637.0> Precedence: bulk A name says a lot. Although my registered business name is Sanctuary Glass, I usually go my actual name, as you said you do. And different people will have different interpretations of your work/business, etc. by your name without seeing what you actually do or produce - could be good or bad, I guess. I'm a small scale craftsperson who doesn't do churches, and before I regestered the name I did have a reservation about it: I thought that people may be mislead by the Sanctuary part (and think I was only large-scale when I'm actually the opposite)...but working in glass is my sanctuary, my escape, my safe and peaceful time...hence my business name. I've never had anyone comment negatively about it - customers have only commented that they liked the name. I say do what feels good and right for you! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 14:53:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:58:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: What's in a Name? Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:01:38 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb23.6138.0> References: <<199902232027.PAA16364@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk Albert, Sounds like another bumper sticker to me. "A Nice Piece of Glass," ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 15:24:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:18:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!nbg3755 From: Nancy B Gildersleeve To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Fw: Re: copper sulfate Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:05:55 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb23.9555.0> Precedence: bulk Charles--what else is in the mix for copper patina besides copper sulfate and water? Thanks in advance for the recipe. Nancy G ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 15:47:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:27:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: What's in a Name? Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:42:39 -0800 Message-ID: <199902232142.NAA15053@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk I think it is ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL to pick one name and stick to it. It's a matter of product recognition...a marketing thing. Could you imagine trying to buy pepsi one week, liking it and then going back for more the next week only to find that it's now called frogsi. Get used to that name, go back to buy more 6 months later, and find out it's been changed to dogsie. Would you be confused? Why would someone wanting your glasswork be any less confused? Yes, I know the hypothetical names stink, but I'm not feeling particularly creative at the moment. Now with art glass we are in a business where people may only need our services once every 5 years or so. What if they met you as pepsi, and look for you 5 years later...how will they know that frogsie is the same art glass company, especially when they have a card that says PEpsi. Let's say you've moved in that 5 year period (most people do move on average every 5 years)...since your card isn't valid and they go to the yellow pages to find a glass artist, how will they know that frogsie (who's listed) is you...pepsi (who isn't)? Answer...they won't know, and you'll probably lose a sale. Since some people seem to prefer artist name recognition, I make sure both company name and personal name appear on everything. Personally, I would prefer to be known by my studio name since I have plans for growing my business. For you, I think changing from a name that no one can remember or that had negative connotations was a good plan. I also like that Holtenwood appears in both your businesses' names...gives continuity...shows that one is related to (a division of) the other, or so folk might tend to think. Gives an impression of substance and size. Very subtle psychology, but then that's what marketing is. I think that you might have to do some education around what architectural detailing is. When I first saw that name I thought you were a draftsman providing plans. I do understand that you're looking for a catchall sort of name since what you do is quite ecclectic. Perhaps you can educate and prevent misunderstandings on your card, brochure and other promotional literature by listing the types of things you do in small letters...woodworking, stained glass, tilework. I can empathize around how challenging this is to choose a name that's all encompassing and has some meaning to it. The "and Creative" in my name refers to workshop facilitation (creativity, colour energies, etc.), one on one creativity coaching, designing and preparing "the look" of manuscripts for publication, a little interior design work, etc. I add etc because who knows what'll be along next. People seem to relate well to this concept no matter in what capacity they are relating to me. It's a nice bonus that the Holtenwood "made up word" had some symbolism appropriate to your living place and the woodwork you do. C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 16:08:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:33:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: Shirley Balloch Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: NON GLASSRe: Deer Son Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:31:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1999Feb23.63151.0> References: <<1999Feb22.12224.0>> Precedence: bulk Thanks Shirley: We all need a little humor in our life. Peggy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 16:29:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:03:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Charles Spitzer Subject: Re: latest Glass Craftsman articles Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:39:01 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb23.22391.0> References: <<3.0.6.32.19990223094554.00b518b0@atlas2.az.stratus.com>> Precedence: bulk Thanks for your reply Charlie. comments interspersed. In message <3.0.6.32.19990223094554.00b518b0@atlas2.az.stratus.com>, Charles Spitzer writes >well, note that i said frame, not reinforced. he did this to make his >frame. it was for freestanding panels. he also stated that he has dropped >his panels on this edge, and the edge crumpled but no glass broke. seems a >good idea to me. What he is doing seems to work for strengthening the edges and making them impact resistant. If by free standing, you mean supported only at the bottom, yes there has to be a strong edge. Although I would think there needs to be some additional support even with steel along the edges, if for no other reason than to keep it from being tipped over. > >also note: how is this different from your wire idea below? both ways makes >a frame to hang the panel from. i also think he doesn't do this for small >panels, just larger ones, and it takes the place of rebar or restrip >internal to the lines. since the steel he adds to the edge won't fold, then >you don't need to have other reinforcement especially if it has fold lines >in the pattern. My suggestion would not provide for as strong a perimeter as his method, but it is strong enough to support the weight of a large panel, if it is to be hung in front of an opening. No way could it support its own weight standing vertically. It depends entirely on being hung. The difference between placing steels along the outer edges and wire, is that wire is quicker. If it is a large panel, it may still need reinforcement across its width or height, depending on whether it is portrait or landscape in format. > >you might want to read the article first before commenting upon it. > I have no access to the periodical concerned (it being a USA publication, I believe). So a good summary would help all us who can't get a copy of the article. If you are willing, I would be happy to receive.... Steve ----- >regards, >charlie > >At 02:50 PM 2/20/99 +0000, you wrote: >>I'm sure I will be told that something is wrong with me, but I can't see >>the necessity of putting steel inside two cames on the perimeter of a >>panel. >> I'm getting really boring on this subject probably, but... >>1. there is no additional strength added across the panel by >>perimeter reinforcing >>2. There are quicker ways of "reinforcing" so a panel can be hung. >>One of them is to put twisted brass wire (picture hanging wire for >>example) around the outside of the perimeter came next to the heart. >>Then fold the outer leaves of the came together, so trapping the brass >>wire. Solder the ends of the wire together, and if you have allowed the >>wire to come out at the top of the panel, you have a wire to hang at one >>or two points. This supports the panel as it goes *completely around* >>the panel without breaks. >> This would be for a big panel. A smaller panel of 1-2 square >>feet (not feet square), can be supported by two copper ties about 2 >>inches long soldered to the side of the heart of the perimeter lead. >>3. If the panel needs reinforcing, it needs it across the panel. >>The reinforcing should follow major "fold" lines across the panel, >>whether in lead came or in copper foil. If your panel is "floppy" it >>will remain so whether you put zinc, or steel encased in lead came on >>the perimeter. Perimeter reinforcing does not strengthen the panel >>internally, it just makes you feel better, because the edges are rigid. >>Well, that isn't going to help much if the panel is not properly >>supported across its width or height. >> >>Now, I have to admit that I haven't seen the article, so I am not >>criticising the author or what was written, Just criticising the >>concept. Because I think it is *Wrong* This may be a one person >>crusade, but I haven't been discouraged from continuing it so far. >> >>Steve in Scotland >>So, I'm far enough away! >> >> >>In message <3.0.6.32.19990217101721.009f0750@atlas2.az.stratus.com>, >>Charles Spitzer writes >>>Nice pictures of some of Oddy's work, along with a good article on framing >>>using lead came + steel rod. >>> >>>regards, >>>charlie >>>phx, az >>>-- >>>Charles Spitzer >>>Stratus Computer, Inc >>>Speaking from Stratus, not for Stratus, Ascend, or Lucent >>> >>>---- >>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >>-- >>Steve Richard >>Verrier Art Glass Ltd >>s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk >> >> >-- >Charles Spitzer >Stratus Computer, Inc >Speaking from Stratus, not for Stratus, Ascend, or Lucent > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 16:42:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:03:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY From: JJKIRBY@aol.com To: BOBDU@prodigy.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: NGRe: Got an idea Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:32:28 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb23.223228.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/22/99 1:05:11 PM Pacific Standard Time, BOBDU@prodigy.net writes: << Just knew this Navy stuff would come in handy someday. Bob >> OK then, you passed the level one test. What is a petard? As in hoisted on his own? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 16:46:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:04:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "Glass List" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: What's in a Name? Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:03:58 -0500 Message-ID: <199902232259.RAA03413@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 2/23/99 2:40 PM Tim Atwood atwoods@aisl.bc.ca >So what do people think? Does a name make a difference? When do you use a >company name and when do you use your own? What about the particulars of my >new comapny name? Was I stupid to change it? Is the new one goofy or does >it work? Tim, I think you answered your own question there. Apparently it's working just fine. I like all the references to "wood." Already people are remembering the Holtenwood as opposed to the "Clearing" name. Some people put a great deal of stock in the vibration of names - i.e. Dionne Warwick changed the spelling of her name for better success. I believe it worked for her. I myself like using just my own name, now. It's Albright, which really works with glass! It makes things a lot easier for checking accounts, etc. Suzanne Albright ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 16:58:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:05:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: Albert Lewis Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: What's in a Name? Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:09:33 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb23.11933.0> References: <<199902232027.PAA16364@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>> Precedence: bulk > Since I made the change to Tim's studio's name a few minutes ago, I'm > glad of the opportunity to say how I reacted to it. I thought it had > a very nice ring to it, evoking "Jane Eyre" as it did for me and the > large manse one sees in the original Wellsian version. > I had a very similar feeling about the new name...I think it has a very romantic feel to it. Heathcliff, and Wuthering Heights came to my mind. Then I read on about the origin of the name...too cool! Sounds like it was meant to be. T Suz -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 17:13:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:26:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY From: JJKIRBY@aol.com To: dodgestudio@juno.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Glass Instructors Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:10:24 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb23.231024.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/22/99 8:24:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, dodgestudio@juno.com writes: << If they are unaware of the program they will blissfully continue to hire incompetent instructors. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs >> I would see it as a two phased approach: The IGGA could publish standards and distribute them freely to all educational enterprises - via web, e-mail and snail mail on request. A certification program could derive from those standards. This may be a fee based program, could entail a workshop, testing and an observation. I suppose, given the global nature of IGGA, a certification program could be "sefl-certifying" which tends to be more problematical. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 17:29:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:20:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: bigpond.com!ktsplash From: ktsplash To: 'Linda Letscher' , "Bungi List (E-mail)" Subject: Australia?... was recovering payment UPDATE Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:16:59 +1000 Message-ID: <1999Feb24.201659.0> Precedence: bulk Hi, Linda! I just checked my atlas - I'm as far from your friend as I could be while still on the same continent! She's down near Perth, yes? I am in Sunny Queensland, on the Sunshine Coast. (Surf very good yesterday due to cyclone Frank - 4 metre swell!) oh but I digress. I checked the net for places she could try, if she is online she could try http://www.realms.com.au/craft/supplies/llsg/llsupwa.htm for the studios in Western Australia, one of them would surely be able to help her with classes. In case she's not online, I've attached the html file from that address, perhaps you could fax it to her? or I would be happy to do same, save you on that international phone fee! Let me know. Katie -----Original Message----- From: Linda Letscher [SMTP:andor@fair.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 1:28 PM To: ktsplash Subject: Re: HELP recovering payment - UPDATE! http://www.realms.com.au/craft/supplies/llsg/llsupwa.htm I am really glad that by chance you got the wife on the phone. How very cool. Glad you got your money, and I think this thread really helped a lot of us. Where abouts in Australia are you? I have a friend in Rockingham, Western Australia that is interested in starting to do glass. Linda Jo -----Original Message----- From: ktsplash To: Bungi List (E-mail) Date: Monday, February 22, 1999 9:39 PM Subject: HELP recovering payment - UPDATE! >Hi Bungians. I want to let you all know how helpful all of your input was. >After receiving such valuable advice, I can guarantee that I'll be thinking >far more about this side of things in the future, and acting far more >professionally, not only for my own interests, but also, as so many >Bungians pointed out, for the sake of other SG artists. >SO the update! >I used a combination of approaches here. I had, before I'd posted my >original question, called the fellow a number of times, using the >time-honoured approach that "you catch more flies with honey..." but after >receiving some of the replies here, I decided to try again, this time with >"more balls." (Thanks Carol!) I called him again, heard him telling his kid >to tell me he was not home, got very cranky, and became determined not to >be deterred again. >I called again later, and this time, when again he "wasn't home" I got him >where it hurts - his wife! When I left her with a message, it turned out >she was VERY interested to discover that her Christmas present hadn't been >paid for. I told her that there seemed to be some misunderstanding, and >that should payment not arrive this week, I would be coming to pick up the >unpaid-for panels. >PAYMENT ARRIVED TODAY!!!! >Again, I want to thank you all very much. Without exception, all of your >responses were helpful. > >I shall continue to hang around watching and learning, with your >permission. Perhaps one day I shall be able to return the favour! >On a side note, I haven't seen any other Australians on this list? Are >there any? Have I got the inside edge on other Australians in Stained Glass >because I have discovered this little fountain of knowledge and reference >called Bungi? Tee Hee > >Katie > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > begin 600 lead light suppliers western aust.htm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eceived: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:38:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!charles_spitzer From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: copper sulfate Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:32:39 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990223163239.009abcd0@atlas2.az.stratus.com> References: <<"1999Feb23.9555.0*"@MHS>> Precedence: bulk At 05:05 PM 2/23/99 -0800, you wrote: >Charles--what else is in the mix for copper patina besides copper sulfate >and water? Thanks >in advance for the recipe. > >Nancy G nothing. i just add copper sulfate and shake the jar until it doesn't dissolve anymore. the amount will be different depending upon temperature; i believe the warmer the water, more crystals will dissolve. regards, charlie phx, az ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 17:57:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:39:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Albert Lewis" , Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: What's in a Name? Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:37:24 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb23.133724.0> Precedence: bulk I tend to agree with Albert and prefer something simple and straight-forward.... like Greer Gallery & Studios. Sort of low-key with a hint of family pride. Our new auto signage will be changed simply to: Greer Studios Church Windows. Not much room for confusion there, I don't think. = On the other hand, I also liked our now-defunct Peanut Gallery where you could buy cheap original art and have beer and peanuts at the = openings! It was housed in the former Checker Chix Hatchery.* We didn't take it with us when we moved because our new digs were too = classy... oh, well. Best regards, Dani Greer (* read: barn) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 20:57:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 19:54:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: NGRe: Got an idea Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 19:54:30 -0800 Message-ID: <199902240354.TAA27673@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >In a message dated 2/22/99 1:05:11 PM Pacific Standard Time, BOBDU@prodigy.net >writes: > ><< Just knew this Navy stuff would come in handy someday. Bob >> > >OK then, you passed the level one test. > >What is a petard? As in hoisted on his own? Don't know that, but I do know what can be done once the "sun is over the yardarm"...just don't know what a yardarm is??? C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 23:11:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:40:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: "glass bungi com" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Attention Lurker Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:40:57 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb23.164057.0> Precedence: bulk Gotcha, Hellllllllo Alan.. Just like the film industry you have to schmooze people, your first step is a biography. LaLa Land thrives on these ..... so I hear. Not very long diatribe, just a few paragraphs introducing yourself. Send it to me and I'll post it. Saturday is the usual day of posting and if I don't have any to post I catch "Hell" from some of the group. They threaten me with great bodily harm... and more.... its not a very pretty sight to behold. As a matter of fact some of the things they tell me to do appear physically impossible. So won't you please help a fellow Thespian (not really... just a dramatic effect.. ) Thanks in Advance. -----Original Message----- From: Alan Terry To: Glass@Bungi.com Date: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 8:04 AM Subject: Re: HELP recovering payment - UPDATE! >After a week of invisibly enjoying all the Bungi threads -- I've had to >respond to this one. > >Congratulations! I also loved the part about the kid and the wife. I'm a >sucker for a happy ending. > >(The fact that I live and work in the L.A. film industry might have >something to do with that.) > >Good work on this (and all) threads on the bungi.com! > >Alan Terry > >-----Original Message----- >From: Suzanne >To: ktsplash >Date: Monday, February 22, 1999 7:54 PM >Subject: Re: HELP recovering payment - UPDATE! > > >>Hey, I think that deserves a "Yeeehaaaaw! >> >>What a crumb of a guy teaching his son that way. >>Cracks me up about the wife. Glad to hear you got >>your payment. >> >>T Suz >>-- >>"Winning isn't always finishing first. >>Sometimes winning is just finishing." >>Manuel Diotte >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 23:14:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:16:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: "Carol Swann" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NGRe: Got an idea Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:17:05 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb23.17175.0> Precedence: bulk A yardarm is something "That Brit Chick" is going to hang me from if I don't start getting some more bios in quickly. Please help an "Old Salt"! She may even "Shiver me Timbers", or even "Tie me kangaroo down sport" (that could hurt). Think I'll go fox-trotting on the old planter tomorrow. Send them to me for posting Saturday. -----Original Message----- From: Carol Swann To: glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 11:04 PM Subject: Re: NGRe: Got an idea >>In a message dated 2/22/99 1:05:11 PM Pacific Standard Time, BOBDU@prodigy.net >>writes: >> >><< Just knew this Navy stuff would come in handy someday. Bob >> >> >>OK then, you passed the level one test. >> >>What is a petard? As in hoisted on his own? > >Don't know that, but I do know what can be done once the "sun is over the >yardarm"...just don't know what a yardarm is??? > >C. > >Carol Swann >Synergy Glass & Creative >http://www.igga.org/synergy >seaspray@island.net > >check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: >http://come.to/The_E-Tour > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Feb 23 23:20:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:54:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Conference time Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:52:51 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb23.185251.0> Precedence: bulk Hi everybody- We're going to Denver to promote the studio at a liturgical conference on Thursday, so won't be around until Sunday at the earliest. Will answe= r emails when I get back.... just didn't want anyone to think I'd permanently beamed up to the Mother ship. Have fun! Will let you know if church conferences are worth the cost. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 24 05:15:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 04:54:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: 75054.2542@compuserve.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: fume traps Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 07:52:08 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb24.12528.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/23/99 11:32:38 PM, Monona wrote: >"vapor droplets" is a contradiction in terms. Vapor is a liquid in its >gas-like state. Droplets are liquid particles. > >Neither the HEPA nor the electrostatic precipitator (ESP) can capture a >vapor. Mists may be captured Oops, mist is what I meant, but I couldn't dredge the word up from the depths of my foggy brain :-\ (pun intended) (I guess that just goes to show just how *ex* a chemist -- and chemical engineer -- I am...........) Another coupla questions: 1. What kind of ozone levels are generated by a "typical" electrostatic precipitator of the type that people with severe allergies are sometimes advised to install in their home heating/air conditioning system? Is it enough to pose a risk? 2. A while back you said something about a big increase in asthma and other respiratory problems among pit musicians after they'd been exposed to a lot of fog-generator mist. I know from experience that stuff is irritating. Doesn't anyone use the old dry ice an hot water trick any more? -----------Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 24 05:41:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 04:54:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: fume traps Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 07:52:06 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb24.12526.0> Precedence: bulk Herewith Monona's reply to my coupla questions: >> 1.What's in those respirator canisters these days? Used to be activated >> charcoal/carbon, I think. < > >The canisters can contain 9 different grades of fabric particulate filters >and/or activated carbon and other materials which are specific treated so >they will collect one or more of the following: > >organic vapors, >ammonia and amines, >acid gases, and >formaldehyde. > >These cartridges can contain two or more types of collection media. The >cartridge for one type of contaminant wont capture the other. ANd there >are many gases and vapors for which there are no approved cartridges. > > >> 2.How does a HEPA filter system compare with an electrostatic system in >> getting rid of particulates, vapor droplets, etc.? < > >"vapor droplets" is a contradiction in terms. Vapor is a liquid in its >gas-like state. Droplets are liquid particles. > >Neither the HEPA nor the electrostatic precipitator (ESP) can capture a >vapor. Mists may be captured, but if they are volatile, they will just >evaporate and then go through the filter or ESP. > >Only particulates are captured by HEPAs and ESPs. > >HEPAs collect the material on the filter as the air is pulled through. They >will collect any type of particle that has a diameter greater than 0.3um > >ESPs neutralize the charges on airborne particles. This means: > >1. they can only collect particle that have a strong charge > >2. they can't be used for flammable dusts like wood dust because of the >danger of fire from the electric charge. > >3. the charge passing through air will create ozone which is a highly toxic >gas. The dirtier the ESP, the more ozone will be produced. > >The type of ESP also will determine where the captured particle end up. If >the collector has charged plates in it, the dust may either collect on the >plates or at the bottom of the unit. If it is more of a negative ion >generator, there is no collection at all. Instead, the discharge particles >just settle on surfaces in the room. > > >Hope this helps. > > >Monona Rossol >ACTS >181 Thompson St., # 23 >NYC NY 10012-2586 212/777-0062 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 24 08:49:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:08:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Spectrum & Dynasty using Chinese imports Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:05:26 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb24.6526.0> Precedence: bulk Gang, This is a general announcement FYI. Shakeel and I were doing an off-line conversation, and I thought everyone would be interested. Spectrum has started inporting glass manufactured in China. And the pre- made lampshade kits from Dynasty are also made in China. Shakeel received one and was very disappointed in the crudeness of the foiling and not good glass used. Shakeel wrote: <...Did you open up and look at the Dynasty "Mission" kit you sent me? It said "Made in China"....> No, I didn't open up the Dynasty kit and look at it prior to mailing it off to you. Thanks for the warning about them. Not nice business practices. I've got the Spectrum announcement right here in front of me. It says... "The next issue of THE SCORE (March 1st mailing) will include our first promotion of the Spectrum Express line of imported clear textures. These clear glasses, manufactured in China and available exclusively from Spectrum, are now being shipped along with standard Spectrum products to all stocking distributors. There are four separate clear textures in this group, including two that are available in both 5mm and 3mm thicknesses....." I suspect their Waterglass line is now manufactured off-shore, as the thicknesses are different, as is the sheet size. Makes me believe it's also coming from China. I agree with you. If I wanted to buy Chinese glass I would have purchased Chinese glass. Thanks for the warning about the Dynasty kits. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 24 11:22:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:53:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Lierath From: "B.Lierath" To: List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: New member of the group Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:51:50 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb24.85150.0> Precedence: bulk Hi group, May I introduce myself? My name is Burkhard Lierath and I am living in Berlin, Germany And you will find out soon enough, that English is not my natural language, but I can bring my message across. (At least most of the time) Of course I like to work with glass! I am married and my wife Elisabeth is owning a little studio. She has regular opening times and beside working with glass, we do sell glass and tools etc. The income is still not enough to make a decent living, but we survive. In addition to flatglass work, we do fusing, pate de verre and also sandblasting in addition to other things. Elisabeth is giving classes on regular basis, but mostly she is working for customers. Dont get me wrong! We are still kind of amateurs because we feel, that it will take long years to master an art. If workload is low, we go to classes and seminars ourself and = of course, we experiment a lot. (Sometimes with success) This should be enough for a first mail. We will look into the mailbox on regualar intervalls and will return incoming e-mails within a week. (Most times within 2 days) Best regards from the City of Berlin, Burkhard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 24 11:51:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:13:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Christie A. Wood" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Spectrum & Dynasty using Chinese imports Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:08:37 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb24.3837.0> Precedence: bulk >>I suspect their Waterglass line is now manufactured off-shore, as the thicknesses are different, as is the sheet size. Makes me believe it's also coming from China.<< I don't think so but I have been known to be wrong. Spectrum clear water glass (S100W) comes in sheets that are 20" X 48"s. They also make a clear cathedral ripple (S100R) that is a tighter pattern than waterglass and comes in sheets that are 24" X 48"s. When purchased in small sheets it is easy to confuse the two different glasses. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass, have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 24 12:04:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:20:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Christie A. Wood" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Spectrum & Dynasty using Chinese imports Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:17:44 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb24.91744.0> Precedence: bulk I've also heard that China has started manufacturing its own glass .... and that it's quite good. That should make Wissmach change its marketing focus a bit! Competition is a beautiful thing. Keeps us all sharp. best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 24 12:21:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:46:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Breathing Safe & Cle Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:49:45 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb24.34945.0> References: <<199902232332_MC2-6B9B-8970@compuserve.com>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk Monona Rossol wrote: > > ATF Distribution Center-K. See wrote: > SNIP> > > I presently use a respirator. I work below a ceiling fan...< > > The ceiling fan will not be useful. If it draws air up past your face > it makes things worse. > > > plus I also > > have a small clip on fan. < > > May help some but is more likely to stir up as much dust as it blows away. > > > When the weather is warmer I also work with > > the sliding glass doors open. < > > Not much help. > > > Truth be told I only use the respirator > > when I plan on soldering for a long period. It gets hot & sweaty. I also > > have not figured out when I need to change the filters. They look clean > > sooooo when? < > > The only respirators you should use for soldering should be the N100, the > R100 or the P100. The N100 and the R100 should only be used about 8 > consecutive hours. The P100 can be used until it looks bad, is damaged, or > you sense it is harder to breathe through than when new. > > > > These are my questions... > > 1) Can an air cleaner with HEPA filter take the place of the fume trap? < > > What the hell is a "fume trap?" Fumes are particles created during the > heating of metal that are well under 10 microns in size. So any legitimate > fume capture system has to be a HEPA by definition. > > > Most of these cleaners deliver clean air (blank) times per hour in a > > (size) e.g... 6 times per hour in a 8'x10' room. < > > Boy, do I want to sell you a car. There is a big difference between > circulating a whole room's air through the filter, and "delivering clean > air." The air coming out of the filter is the old stale room air which is > only "cleaner" because the limited amounts of stuff each type of air cleaner > can capture have been removed. > > > It appears the fume trap needs to be almost "on" your work to catch to > > fumes... so will the "whole room" air cleaner take its place? > > What you need to do is get some incense and hold it right where you solder. > See how well it captures. And be VERY careful to see where the exhaust > for the unit goes. I've seen some unit HEPAs whose exhaust is on the front > and it blows the solder fume away and doesn't catch much at all. > > > 2) I also notice that there is a Smoke Absorber available. It is smaller > > then the fume trap and costs 3 times as much. Is anyone familiar with > > this product? > > > Smoke is a combination of gases, vapors, fumes, dust-sized particles and > mist. There is no system in the world that can absorb it all. Find out what > the liars who make this product are using for a filter. > > > These are my criteria for the purchase > > Size > > How noisy > > Cost > > > > Reorder your priorities: > > 1. efficiency of the filter's capture of fume-sized particles (a full HEPA > which captures 99.97% of particles 0.3 um in diameter and larger), > > 2. How well the systems draws air (either linear flow at the point of work or > cubic feet/minute for air cleaners). > > 3. Then look at size, noise, cost. No point getting a small, quiet, cheap > unit that doesn't work. > > Monona Rossol, industrial hygienist > Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety > 181 Thompson St., # 23 > New York NY 10012-2586 212/777-0062 -- x>"3 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 24 12:50:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:34:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: sprintmail.com!MollysGlass From: "Molly Keys" To: "Bob E Duchesneau" , "Bungi" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Spectrum & Dynasty using Chinese imports Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:34:45 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb24.83445.0> Precedence: bulk Spectrum does make two different sheet sizes. The 20x48 that you refer to is probably their "t" glass and is lower in price than their standard stock size. This glass is usually the first run or last run. If you examine the two different sheets the "t" appears to be flawed. The waves are actually stringy looking. Hope this helps. Molly -----Original Message----- From: Bob E Duchesneau To: Bungi ; Christie A. Wood Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 2:00 PM Subject: Re: Spectrum & Dynasty using Chinese imports >>>I suspect their Waterglass line is now manufactured off-shore, >as the thicknesses are different, as is the sheet size. Makes >me believe it's also coming from China.<< > >I don't think so but I have been known to be wrong. Spectrum clear >water glass (S100W) comes in sheets that are 20" X 48"s. They also >make a clear cathedral ripple (S100R) that is a tighter pattern than >waterglass and comes in sheets that are 24" X 48"s. When purchased in >small sheets it is easy to confuse the two different glasses. Bob > >Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 >Think glass, have class. > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 24 13:23:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:53:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Grind/No-Grind help, please Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:52:09 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb24.10529.0> Precedence: bulk Gang, I forgot to save a copy of my Grind/No-Grind report. If anyone saved that message, would you please foreward me a copy? Thanks. I'm working on the 2nd installment, in which I attempt curved pieces. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 24 13:47:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:54:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Grind/No-Grind help, please Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:52:09 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb24.10529.0> Precedence: bulk Gang, I forgot to save a copy of my Grind/No-Grind report. If anyone saved that message, would you please foreward me a copy? Thanks. I'm working on the 2nd installment, in which I attempt curved pieces. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 24 13:53:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:20:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: socent.org!atf From: "ATF Distribution Center-K. See" To: Shirley Balloch , bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Breathing Safe & Clean Air Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:20:06 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb24.11206.0> References: <<1999Feb24.34945.0>> Organization: SOC Enterprises Precedence: bulk Hi Shirley, Thanks for getting me some answers. Thank you Monona for taking the time = to set me straight. Now can anyone make a suggestion as to what I should buy!!? There is a gl= ut of products on the market & was hoping for help in this most important purch= ase. Thanks, K See ....holding my breath in DC metro area. Shirley Balloch wrote: > Monona Rossol wrote: > > > > ATF Distribution Center-K. See wrote: > > SNIP> > > > I presently use a respirator. I work below a ceiling fan...< > > > > The ceiling fan will not be useful. If it draws air up past your fac= e > > it makes things worse. > > > > > plus I also > > > have a small clip on fan. < > > > > May help some but is more likely to stir up as much dust as it blows = away. > > > > > When the weather is warmer I also work with > > > the sliding glass doors open. < > > > > Not much help. > > > > > Truth be told I only use the respirator > > > when I plan on soldering for a long period. It gets hot & sweaty. I= also > > > have not figured out when I need to change the filters. They look c= lean > > > sooooo when? < > > > > The only respirators you should use for soldering should be the N100,= the > > R100 or the P100. The N100 and the R100 should only be used about 8 > > consecutive hours. The P100 can be used until it looks bad, is damag= ed, or > > you sense it is harder to breathe through than when new. > > > > > > > These are my questions... > > > 1) Can an air cleaner with HEPA filter take the place of the fume t= rap? < > > > > What the hell is a "fume trap?" Fumes are particles created during t= he > > heating of metal that are well under 10 microns in size. So any legi= timate > > fume capture system has to be a HEPA by definition. > > > > > Most of these cleaners deliver clean air (blank) times per hour in = a > > > (size) e.g... 6 times per hour in a 8'x10' room. < > > > > Boy, do I want to sell you a car. There is a big difference between > > circulating a whole room's air through the filter, and "delivering cl= ean > > air." The air coming out of the filter is the old stale room air whi= ch is > > only "cleaner" because the limited amounts of stuff each type of air = cleaner > > can capture have been removed. > > > > > It appears the fume trap needs to be almost "on" your work to catc= h to > > > fumes... so will the "whole room" air cleaner take its place? > > > > What you need to do is get some incense and hold it right where you s= older. > > See how well it captures. And be VERY careful to see where the exha= ust > > for the unit goes. I've seen some unit HEPAs whose exhaust is on th= e front > > and it blows the solder fume away and doesn't catch much at all. > > > > > 2) I also notice that there is a Smoke Absorber available. It is sm= aller > > > then the fume trap and costs 3 times as much. Is anyone familiar wi= th > > > this product? > > > > > Smoke is a combination of gases, vapors, fumes, dust-sized particles = and > > mist. There is no system in the world that can absorb it all. Find = out what > > the liars who make this product are using for a filter. > > > > > These are my criteria for the purchase > > > Size > > > How noisy > > > Cost > > > > > > Reorder your priorities: > > > > 1. efficiency of the filter's capture of fume-sized particles (a full= HEPA > > which captures 99.97% of particles 0.3 um in diameter and larger), > > > > 2. How well the systems draws air (either linear flow at the point of= work or > > cubic feet/minute for air cleaners). > > > > 3. Then look at size, noise, cost. No point getting a small, quiet, = cheap > > unit that doesn't work. > > > > Monona Rossol, industrial hygienist > > Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety > > 181 Thompson St., # 23 > > New York NY 10012-2586 212/777-0062 > > -- > x=9F>"3=16=01=06=90=08 > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 24 14:09:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:56:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: "pj friend" To: "bungi group" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Fw: Spectrum & Dynasty using Chinese imports Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:50:29 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb24.105029.0> Precedence: bulk Paul Friend Architectural Glass & Design, Inc. www.waterw.com/~artglass Accredited Studio Member of the Stained Glass Association of America Member International Guild of Glass Artists -----Original Message----- From: pj friend To: Dani Greer Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 3:49 PM Subject: Re: Spectrum & Dynasty using Chinese imports > > >and .....................lamberts has opened another factory in Germany >...hiring all the guys from Dsag. >Looks like we're going to get some of those wonderful large sheets again. >And alot more choices. > > > > >>I've also heard that China has started manufacturing its own glass .... >>and that it's quite good. That should make Wissmach change its >>marketing focus a bit! Competition is a beautiful thing. Keeps us >>all sharp. >> >>best, >> >>Dani Greer >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 24 14:15:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:08:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Spectrum & Dynasty using Chinese imports Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:07:30 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb24.11730.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Bob E Duchesneau" >I don't think so but I have been known to be wrong. Spectrum clear water glass (S100W) comes in sheets that are 20" X 48"s. They also make a clear cathedral ripple (S100R) that is a tighter pattern than waterglass and comes in sheets that are 24" X 48"s. When purchased in small sheets it is easy to confuse the two different glasses.< Naw...I usually purchase the colored waterglass sheets in the large sheets. I know the difference between waterglass and their small ripple. The look of the Spectrum waterglass has changed significantly in the past year. The sheets are now thinner, and the waves are thinner. Some folk like the new waterglass look. I like the thicker original look. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 24 14:25:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:08:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Dynasty kits using Chinese imports Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:07:26 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb24.11726.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Carol Swann >As for the kits, I'm unaware of what these are about...< They are lampshade kits in which the glass is already cut and foiled. Also included in the kit is the mold upon which you build the lampshade. All for not much money. Which leads us to suspect they are produced in China using below-market wages. Seems Chinese glass is now flooding the market. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 24 14:58:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:30:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: product needed Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:33:44 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb24.63344.0> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk My mom found the neatest thing at a garage sale. It looks like a lid, with feet impressions stamped into it. The person had puttied scrap textured glass into it and we presume were using it for a plant pot holder. I think it sounds like a good low cost craft item. Anyone ever seen this? And do you know where I can buy the lid like thing? Thanks in advance. Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 24 16:08:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:33:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ipa.net!gecko From: "Blake, Wayne, & Susan" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Fw: Attention Lurker Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:36:53 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb24.113653.0> Precedence: bulk >have any to post I catch "Hell" from some of the group. They threaten me >with great bodily harm... and more.... its not a very pretty sight to >behold. As a matter of fact some of the things they tell me to do appear >physically impossible. So won't you please help a fellow Thespian (not >really... just a dramatic effect.. ) Patrick, you're a HOOT! I can't even think of an acceptable comment to make on this one, but I just couldn't let it pass me by! LOL! Blake :-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 24 16:37:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:02:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Part 2-Grind/NoGrind (long) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 19:00:06 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb24.1406.0> Precedence: bulk Worked on a commission consisting of 5 interrelated small windows made up of 116 total pieces. These are being done in copper foil, using all glue chip glass in four colors. The vast majority of the lines in these panes are curved. Some straight lines, as in the outside edges and some (very few) border edges. The rest make up four roses (natural style) and their leaves. I was attempting to duplicate last week's experiment whereby I was able to do away with grinding. Sorry to disappoint everyone, but 'twas not possible with this design. Statistics: # of pieces: 116 # of straight line edges done without grinding: 86 # of straight line edges with grinding: 92 # of inside curve edges done without grinding: 35 # of inside curve edges with grinding: 135 # of outside curve edges done without grinding: 14 # of outside curve edges with grinding: 111 # of times I cut my finger on unground edges: 1 (I learn quickly!) Percentages: 48% of straight edges were done without grinding 20% of inside curve edges were done without grinding 11% of outside curve edges were done without grinding My worst case was the outside curves. No matter how carefully I cut the outside curve edges, I still got those annoying tiny "points" where two tangent cuts meet when doing the outside curve. And no matter how carefully I grozed, I was unsatisfied with the results and ended up grinding the tiny "points" off. I'm a real stickler for getting a very smooth line, and just couldn't make outside curves work without the grinding to my satisfaction. Inside curves were better, but I'm more conservative on cutting inside curves. Most of the time, the reason why I resorted to grinding the last fraction of glass off the inside curve was because I was conservative with my cutting. Most of the pattern pieces with inside curves had the curves ending in thin points (pedals of the roses). So my tendency to be conservative and preserve the points and not have to recut the inside curve pieces showed up here. As to the straight lines, I probably should improve my cutting accuracy here and not grind any straight lines. The majority of times I did grind straight lines was because of razor-thin flanges left on the edges after using the running pliers to run the score. These flanges were just enough to push the "straight" edge out of true straight when I put all the pieces together on the cartoon prior to foiling. Also, it's one of these flanges which drew blood. Other observations: Non-ground edges tend to cause problems when using a foiling machine. In my case, the flanges caused the edge itself to not be flat, and the piece had a tendency to try to slip out of the foiling machine wheel. And the non-ground points are very sharp and will cause the foil to split or tear when foiling over the point, if you are not careful about backing off on the pressure. My conclusions: For my curved designs, I will still need to grind most curved pieces. But with some more practice, I can eliminate grinding straight lines. This will save time in the long run. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 24 17:00:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:14:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Grind/NoGrind thank you Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 19:13:45 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb24.141345.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks to all who emailed me with my original musings on the grind/no grind thread. No need for anyone else to email it to me. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 24 17:10:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:35:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Dynasty kits using Chinese imports Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:34:49 -0800 Message-ID: <199902250034.QAA23217@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >They are lampshade kits in which the glass is >already cut and foiled. Also included in the kit >is the mold upon which you build the lampshade. >All for not much money. Which leads us to suspect >they are produced in China using below-market >wages. Seems Chinese glass is now flooding >the market. Good grief...open package, add water...and presto...an instant lamp. What on earth will they think of next? Someone must have found out that they can cut and foil more lamps than they can solder overseas...I can't imagine that these would catch on over here, or that any retail places would actually carry them, preferring instead to make money with classes??? People who are wanting to learn to make stained glass wouldn't want these presto instant things, would they? C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 24 17:36:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:17:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: New member of the group Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:24:26 +0000 Message-ID: <199902250117.UAA06619@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > May I introduce myself? My name is Burkhard Lierath > and I am living in Berlin, Germany Hallo, Burhard! Back in the 60s I lived in Berlin. Have fond memories of Wannsee, Ku-Damm, good people and great food! And, of course, absolutely excellent beer. I'd love a curry wurst right now, in fact, complete with chopped onions on a bed of rice and smothered in hot sauce and curry. Albert Albert Lewis, Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. A 501(c)(6) not-for-profit association 54 Cherry St., PO Box 1809, North Adams MA 01247-1809 (413) 663-5512 Fax: (413) 663-7167 _____________________________________________ Home page http://igga.org/ Member Studios http://igga.org/guildtop.htm Sources Guide http://igga.org/guide.htm Guild Library http://aiap.com/amazon/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 24 18:04:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:32:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: BOBDU@prodigy.net Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Spectrum & Dynasty using Chinese imports Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 19:48:30 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb24.144830.0> Precedence: bulk Bob, At RAGS we had Jim Matthews from Spectrum as our guest a couple of months ago and he told us that Spectrum was beginning to ship waterglass in the CLEAR ONLY in a full 24" width sheet. (by 48" as usual.) Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:08:37 -0800 "Bob E Duchesneau" writes: >>>I suspect their Waterglass line is now manufactured off-shore, >as the thicknesses are different, as is the sheet size. Makes >me believe it's also coming from China.<< > >I don't think so but I have been known to be wrong. Spectrum clear >water glass (S100W) comes in sheets that are 20" X 48"s. They also >make a clear cathedral ripple (S100R) that is a tighter pattern than >waterglass and comes in sheets that are 24" X 48"s. When purchased in >small sheets it is easy to confuse the two different glasses. Bob > >Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 >Think glass, have class. > > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 24 18:20:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:33:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: Ensembles@compuserve.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Spectrum & Dynasty using Chinese imports Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 19:50:38 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb24.145038.0> Precedence: bulk I liked the original waterglass best from about 15 years ago. The thickness and color density varied wildly. The sheets often were not flat, but it was great! The new stuff is kind of boring. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:07:30 -0500 "Christie A. Wood" writes: >Message text written by "Bob E Duchesneau" >>I don't think so but I have been known to be wrong. Spectrum clear >water glass (S100W) comes in sheets that are 20" X 48"s. They also >make a clear cathedral ripple (S100R) that is a tighter pattern than >waterglass and comes in sheets that are 24" X 48"s. When purchased in >small sheets it is easy to confuse the two different glasses.< > >Naw...I usually purchase the colored waterglass sheets in the large >sheets. I know the difference between waterglass and their small >ripple. The look of the Spectrum waterglass has changed >significantly >in the past year. The sheets are now thinner, and the waves are >thinner. Some folk like the new waterglass look. I like the thicker >original look. > >Christie A. Wood >Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, >P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 >http://www.igga.org/wood/ Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 24 19:04:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:35:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: fair.net!andor From: "Linda Letscher" To: "Carol Swann" , Subject: Re: Dynasty kits using Chinese imports Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:38:46 -0500 Message-ID: <199902250140.UAA08890@smtp.america.net> Precedence: bulk Carol, This kit sounds like sewing and buying the pattern with fabric and everything cut..... why bother... I think a newbie might give it a try, but realize in very short order that there is more to making something that ordering a kit. I have never done a lamp but should I ever want to, I would think the sense of accomplishment would be in creating it from scratch. Choosing the colors and doing the whole thing. Having said that, I am sure they will sell a lot of them. But then Chevrolet sold a lot of GeoMetros too!!!!...and they still make Corvettes. :-) (apples & oranges... no comparison) People could order these and end up giving even more business to the local retailers for foil to refoil and lessons to learn how to solder and fabricate the thing. I have been to China and been to communes that had people, doing very fine silk work or cutting jade,picking tea leaves. Believe me no matter how they sanitized it, it was slave labor. I saw young women sitting doing silk on silk embroidery with one stand of silk, ONE STRAND!!!, with their eyes 4 inches from the piece they were working on. How long are those eyes going to last? I would not buy any of their exquisitely beautiful work, just felt it was wrong. I wonder who at Spectrum had the brilliant idea to come up with these kits and why? $$?? Linda Jo -----Original Message----- From: Carol Swann To: glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 8:17 PM Subject: Re: Dynasty kits using Chinese imports > >>They are lampshade kits in which the glass is >>already cut and foiled. Also included in the kit >>is the mold upon which you build the lampshade. >>All for not much money. Which leads us to suspect >>they are produced in China using below-market >>wages. Seems Chinese glass is now flooding >>the market. > >Good grief...open package, add water...and presto...an instant lamp. What >on earth will they think of next? Someone must have found out that they can >cut and foil more lamps than they can solder overseas...I can't imagine that >these would catch on over here, or that any retail places would actually >carry them, preferring instead to make money with classes??? > >People who are wanting to learn to make stained glass wouldn't want these >presto instant things, would they? > >C. > >Carol Swann >Synergy Glass & Creative >http://www.igga.org/synergy >seaspray@island.net > >check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: >http://come.to/The_E-Tour > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 24 19:21:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:43:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: New member of the group Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 02:26:54 +0000 Message-ID: <199902250238.CAA01535@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Liebe Burkhard und Elisabeth! Seid herzlich willkommen!! We are certainly a very multi-national stained glass group; with people from all corners, including Poland, Sweden, Canada, Australia and a number of "lurkers" in other European countries.We also have Herbert in Germany, but he has grown very quiet lately. I myself am replying from UK, where there are about 12 people on the Bungi Group. I am the irrascable Swede who always manages to throw a spanner in the works somewhere / somehow. Fairly soon you will be hounded by a crazy, mad American Irishman called Patrick who will use all sort of ploys to extract a biography from you for the Group. The biographies are normally posted late on Saturday. There are about 700 - 800 of us on the group world-wide and only about 130 bios posted. Patrick is not doing a very good job, his excuses are many and pathetic; including being "hounded" by a man-eating Old English Sheepdog or trying to amuse/pacify us all by performing ballet dances dressed in a stained glass tu-tu. Ah well!! Like Albert, I too know Berlin very well; I studied in Germany for about 7 years and have friends in Berlin that I visited every month in those days. There are also a number of German-extracted people in USA on Bungi, so you are not really alone here. ...And never mind any shyness about English! After all, the ones that abuse the English language the most, are the native speakers!!! ;-> Welcome aboard!! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Burkhard wrote: > > May I introduce myself? My name is Burkhard Lierath > and I am living in Berlin, Germany > And you will find out soon enough, that English is not my > natural language, but I can bring my message across. > (At least most of the time) > Of course I like to work with glass! ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 24 19:40:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:50:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mindspring.com!pigznpawz From: "Jerri" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Dynasty kits Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:43:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb24.16438.0> Precedence: bulk I think they go along with the garden stone kits that include everything, ***even*** the glass which has already been cut for you!! Jerri > >Good grief...open package, add water...and presto...an instant lamp. What >on earth will they think of next? Someone must have found out that they can >cut and foil more lamps than they can solder overseas...I can't imagine that >these would catch on over here, or that any retail places would actually >carry them, preferring instead to make money with classes??? > >People who are wanting to learn to make stained glass wouldn't want these >presto instant things, would they? > >C. > >Carol Swann >Synergy Glass & Creative >http://www.igga.org/synergy >seaspray@island.net > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 24 19:49:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:58:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "bungi group" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Fw: Spectrum & Dynasty using Chinese imports Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:53:28 -0500 Message-ID: <199902250249.VAA05857@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 2/24/99 3:50 PM pj friend artglass@waterw.com I *saw* some of that Chinese waterglass today at my local retailers. It's cheaper, yes, and it looks different. The "wave" is different. The clear has a different tint (bluer) than the regular waterglass. My retailer is keeping it separate from his regular waterglass stock, but be warned, take a good look at it before you buy. If you're matching it up with waterglass you already have in stock, it will show up quite differently in a panel. Suzanne >> >>and .....................lamberts has opened another factory in Germany >>...hiring all the guys from Dsag. >>Looks like we're going to get some of those wonderful large sheets again. >>And alot more choices. >> >> >> >> >>>I've also heard that China has started manufacturing its own glass .... >>>and that it's quite good. That should make Wissmach change its >>>marketing focus a bit! Competition is a beautiful thing. Keeps us >>>all sharp. >>> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 24 20:06:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:58:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Dynasty kits using Chinese imports Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:59:01 -0500 Message-ID: <199902250254.VAA06388@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk 2/24/99 7:34 PM Carol Swann seaspray@mail.island.net > >People who are wanting to learn to make stained glass wouldn't want these >presto instant things, would they? Remember "paint by numbers" kits???? Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Feb 24 20:08:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 19:22:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Part 2-Grind/NoGrind (long) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:14:14 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb24.171414.0> Precedence: bulk Christie, The tangent lines you refer to, are they two separate score lines used to create one curve or are they where two distinct and different curves meet? If it is one curve, try scoring the complete curve in one continuous line first. Use careful pressure to open up the score line all along the curve without actually breaking the glass. Put the piece back on the table and score relief lines tangent to the curve and the scrap will just drop off when you run (break) the relief score lines. If on the other hand they are distinct separate curves you can score the first cut without breaking it. Score the next curve so that the score line ends at the first score line. Now carefully open the second line you scored so that it runs into the forst line and you should be able to get them both our cleanly. Was that intelligible? ;-) Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com >My worst case was the outside curves. >No matter how carefully I cut the outside curve edges, >I still got those annoying tiny "points" where two tangent >cuts meet when doing the outside curve. And no matter >how carefully I grozed, I was unsatisfied with the results >and ended up grinding the tiny "points" off. I'm a real >stickler for getting a very smooth line, and just couldn't >make outside curves work without the grinding to my >satisfaction. > Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 00:13:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 23:03:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Leprechaun anyone? Free pattern ;-) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 01:40:21 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb24.204021.0> Precedence: bulk Just thought I'd put in a little plug here of sorts. Our free pattern of the month is a Leprechaun so if you want to download him just drop in. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 00:26:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 23:49:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: started project Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 23:29:26 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb27.152926.0> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk Oh I am so HAPPY...I finally started back in after a loooong slump...well, I cut out a good fourth of the pieces for my daughters kitty clock...I may be using my never before used grinder before the week is up...I think I am over my "glass block" YEAH! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 01:20:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 00:32:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel" To: "B.Lierath" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: New member of the group Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:47:41 +0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.04741.0> Precedence: bulk Welcome aboard Burklard (and Elisabeth too). You are at the right place with a right people. Enjoy. (Till Pat gets to you :-)) Warm Regards Shakeel Abedi shakeel@tm.net.my Rainbow Stained Glass 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Malaysia Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489 Fax: +607-7733313 -----Original Message----- From: B.Lierath To: List Date: Thursday, February 25, 1999 3:35 AM Subject: New member of the group > >Hi group, > >May I introduce myself? My name is Burkhard Lierath >and I am living in Berlin, Germany >And you will find out soon enough, that English is not my >natural language, but I can bring my message across. >(At least most of the time) >Of course I like to work with glass! >I am married and my wife Elisabeth is owning a little studio. >She has regular opening times and beside working with >glass, we do sell glass and tools etc. The income is still >not enough to make a decent living, but we survive. >In addition to flatglass work, we do fusing, pate de verre >and also sandblasting in addition to other things. >Elisabeth is giving classes on regular basis, but mostly >she is working for customers. >Dont get me wrong! We are still kind of amateurs because >we feel, that it will take long years to master an art. >If workload is low, we go to classes and seminars ourself and = > >of course, we experiment a lot. (Sometimes with success) >This should be enough for a first mail. We will look into >the mailbox on regualar intervalls and will return incoming >e-mails within a week. (Most times within 2 days) > >Best regards from the City of Berlin, > >Burkhard >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 02:22:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 01:49:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Spectrum Waterglass Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:46:24 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.94624.0> Precedence: bulk At 19:50 24/02/99 -0500, Gary wrote: >I liked the original waterglass best from about 15 years ago. The >thickness and color density varied wildly. The sheets often were not >flat, but it was great! > >The new stuff is kind of boring. > Absolutely, and remember how it used to come with the rolled edge on it too? Terrific for unusual boxes and mirror or picture frames as you could leave the smooth rolled edge unfoiled. And now they cut the edges off there is often not one right angle on the sheet either. Ah well - the good old days??? EliZabeth in Bournemouth http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 05:52:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 03:17:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Glass Sites I Found Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 06:19:46 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.11946.0> Precedence: bulk Hey guys, These are some sites I found, surfing. All are glass related. My favorite is: http://www.stainedartglass.com/cayman.html. I just had to print that one out in full color. Check out the jellyfish that look etched and the little fish in the background in the center panel. This has got to be the most colorful panel I have ever seen. This site http://novaclassique.com/bentglass.htm has a nifty bathroom sink - all glass. And this site has three dimensional glass http://www.ultraglas.com/. Didn't see any prices but it's fun to look at. Linda Campbell ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 06:04:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 03:59:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet From: "Karen K." To: "Bungi List" Subject: Welcome Burkhard Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 06:58:35 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.15835.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Burkhard, welcome to the group. You'll find you have a lot in common with most of us here. Karen ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 06:10:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 05:14:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!SGriffiSBG From: SGriffiSBG@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; Subject: Fwd: Dynasty kits using Chinese imports Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:12:36 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb25.131236.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_919948357_boundary Content-ID: <0_919948357@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII There are a lot of people who want others to do the major portion of projects (lazy or not really interested in developing those skills) so that they can receive the personal credit for the creative work themselves. Lets face it, there are leaders, there are followers and there are those who are manipulative enough to take advantage of it and call it "there own" --part0_919948357_boundary Content-ID: <0_919948357@inet_out.mail.compuserve.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-za02.mx.aol.com (rly-za02.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.98]) by air-za03.mail.aol.com (v56.26) with SMTP; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:25:31 -0500 Received: from daver.bungi.com (daver.bungi.com [207.126.97.2]) by rly-za02.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id RAA19020; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:25:16 -0500 (EST) Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:08:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Subject: Dynasty kits using Chinese imports Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:07:26 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb24.11726.0> Precedence: bulk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Message text written by Carol Swann >As for the kits, I'm unaware of what these are about...< They are lampshade kits in which the glass is already cut and foiled. Also included in the kit is the mold upon which you build the lampshade. All for not much money. Which leads us to suspect they are produced in China using below-market wages. Seems Chinese glass is now flooding the market. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass --part0_919948357_boundary-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 06:23:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 05:11:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel" To: "bungi" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Kiln for slumping & fusing Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:23:59 +0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.42359.0> Precedence: bulk >Dear K > >Check out the Jen-Ken kilns sold by Marty Daily at Center DeVerre > >http://www.cdvkiln.com/ > >Marty sells to glass artists at prices considerable below retail (an even >some wholesale) prices. > >Elizabeth Johnson >dmj@cyberportal.net Dear K Elizabeth is very right. I can vouch for that. Marty has some of the best prices for kilns Warm Regards Shakeel Abedi shakeel@tm.net.my Rainbow Stained Glass 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Malaysia Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489 Fax: +607-7733313 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 06:56:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 06:23:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: earthlink.net!ellenid From: Elleni Drafts To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Hello Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:03:18 -0500 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Hi, I'm a newcomer to the list and to stained glass. I've only started classes about three weeks ago but have already completed eight projects including a picture frame I'm rather proud of :-) Is this a good list to be on as a beginner or are you all professionals with years of experience? I wouldn't want to ask beginner type questions and have you all think I'm stupid if this is a "professional" list. Elleni ellenid@earthlink.net South Carolina - Smiling Faces - Beautiful Places ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 07:27:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 06:56:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: MAIL.ECU.EDU!RESPESSJ From: "Respess, Janet Crocket" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Copyright restrictions Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:36:24 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.43624.0> Precedence: bulk If someone has a book that is copyrighted... I understand you cannot reproduce the book and sell it... but can you make the designs in the book and sell the finished product? If not, then how can shop owners make the designs and sell them in their stores? Just wondering. Director of Advertising The East Carolinian East Carolina University Greenville, NC 27858 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 07:47:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:09:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: the happy worm Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:12:26 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.31226.0> Precedence: bulk Sorry, but can someone please send me the url for the clean up instructions for the Happy99 worm? Thanks Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 08:00:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:33:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Copyright restrictions Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:40:28 +0000 Message-ID: <199902251533.KAA14671@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > If someone has a book that is copyrighted... I understand you cannot > reproduce the book and sell it... but can you make the designs in the book > and sell the finished product? Yes, that's what the (pattern) book is for, up to a limit. Most publishers these days say something like, "If you're going to make and sell more than X number of copies, you have to contact us to set up a royalty arrangement." After all, the designer of the patterns will want to participate in those 10,000 suncatchers being sold at Wal-Mart. On the other hand, design your own pattern and avoid the royalty. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 08:04:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:09:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Elleni Drafts Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Hello Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:09:01 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.591.0> References: <> Precedence: bulk Elleni Drafts wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm a newcomer to the list and to stained glass. I've only started classes > about three weeks ago but have already completed eight projects including a > picture frame I'm rather proud of :-) > > Is this a good list to be on as a beginner or are you all professionals > with years of experience? I wouldn't want to ask beginner type questions > and have you all think I'm stupid if this is a "professional" list. > > Elleni > ellenid@earthlink.net > South Carolina - Smiling Faces - Beautiful Places > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it's a mix of both, easy and hard questions will usually be answered. unless it's been asked a thousand times before, in which case you would have to look it up in the archives. mainly because some of those questions are really long. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 08:29:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:18:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: socent.org!atf From: "ATF Distribution Center-K. See" To: Elleni Drafts Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Hello Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:17:11 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.51711.0> References: <> Organization: SOC Enterprises Precedence: bulk Welcome Elleni, The only stupid question you can ask this group is the one you didn't ask!! You will learn so very much and travel on the net like you have never have before. Check with me privately & I can give you some site to check out. K See Fairfax, Virginia (is for lovers) Elleni Drafts wrote: > Hi, > > I'm a newcomer to the list and to stained glass. I've only started classes > about three weeks ago but have already completed eight projects including a > picture frame I'm rather proud of :-) > > Is this a good list to be on as a beginner or are you all professionals > with years of experience? I wouldn't want to ask beginner type questions > and have you all think I'm stupid if this is a "professional" list. > > Elleni > ellenid@earthlink.net > South Carolina - Smiling Faces - Beautiful Places > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 09:16:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:53:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Re: Dynasty kits using Chinese imports Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:50:47 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb25.155047.0> Precedence: bulk >>lampshade kits in which the glass is >>already cut and foiled. Also included in the kit >>is the mold upon which you build the lampshade. To which Shirley G replied: >There are a lot of people who want others to do the major portion of projects >(lazy or not really interested in developing those skills) so that they can >receive the personal credit for the creative work themselves. It reminds me of the kits that flooded the market when the "needlepoint craze" hit 20-some years ago. You could get them with the design filled in and all you had to do was acres and acres of background. My mom took one look at them and said, "But that's the boring part! They've already done the fun part for you, what good is that?" Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 09:18:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:09:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Hello Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:07:52 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.6752.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Elleni Drafts >Is this a good list to be on as a beginner or are you all professionals with years of experience? I wouldn't want to ask beginner type questions and have you all think I'm stupid if this is a "professional" list.< Hi there Elleni. We at bungi are at all levels of experience in glass working. There are many first-timers (sometimes called newbies) such as yourself. There are people like myself who have been doing copper-foil & lead work for only a few years (in my case, 6 years). There are also professional studios represented here. But not to worry. Any and all questions are perfectly legitimate and are welcome. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 09:34:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:09:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Part 2-Grind/NoGrind (long) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:07:47 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.6747.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:dodgestudio@juno.com >The tangent lines you refer to, are they two separate score lines used to create one curve or are they where two distinct and different curves meet?< They are 2 separate score lines used to create one curve. That's the way I was taught. Thank you ever so much for describing the alternate method whereby you score the entire curve, then go back and add in releaf scores. I shall try that method. This bungi group is great, n'est pas? Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 09:40:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:11:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Part 2-Grind/NoGrind (long) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:07:50 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.6750.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks to Debbie for info about eliminating the little "flange thingies" (technical term) by using the Morton button. I shall try it. BTW, the glass used was Wissmach glue chip. I was using both Venture 3/16" black-backed foil and Ecco 7/32" black-backed foil. Equally good sticking ability to the glue chip glass. I very carefully washed & dried each pieces of glass prior to foiling, since I use the "American" method whereby you paste the cutout pattern onto the glass prior to cutting. And I am posting this message on the bungi line, as I think her comments are quite valuable. Again, thanks for the pointer about using the Morton button to eliminate the flanges. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 09:59:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:43:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!MD6868 From: MD6868@aol.com To: Lierath@compuserve.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: New member of the group Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:37:54 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb25.163754.0> Precedence: bulk Burkhard, So glad you found this list. In many ways, it's like going to a seminar each day, and once you've read enough mail to figure out who's who, you'll begin to feel like you are "talking" to these folks, in person. Watch out for Patrick though. Although we are both of Irish descent, I am of the lace curtain variety, and he is definitely "shanty Irish". Since your first post was largely biographical, perhaps he won't bother you for a biography, and you'll be spared. Welcome, and enjoy Richard Glassics Artglass Valencia, California, USA ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 10:07:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:19:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ticnet.com!rjlcon From: "Jak N Wolfy" To: "Elleni Drafts" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Hello Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:24:28 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.42428.0> Precedence: bulk Elleni, No question is stupid, and from what I have seen from this group, they all enjoy helping a neebie. A few of them might sound a little rough and tumble but their hearts are alway in the right place. So welcome to the group and as for questions, ask away. Jackie -----Original Message----- From: Elleni Drafts To: glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, February 25, 1999 9:04 AM Subject: Hello >Hi, > >I'm a newcomer to the list and to stained glass. I've only started classes >about three weeks ago but have already completed eight projects including a >picture frame I'm rather proud of :-) > >Is this a good list to be on as a beginner or are you all professionals >with years of experience? I wouldn't want to ask beginner type questions >and have you all think I'm stupid if this is a "professional" list. > > > >Elleni >ellenid@earthlink.net >South Carolina - Smiling Faces - Beautiful Places > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 10:14:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:20:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Welcome... Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:20:42 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.62042.0> Precedence: bulk Welcome Burkard and wife....I too, am new to the group. You will learn so much from them and they are always available for help on any project. They are truly a talented menagerie of folks. Just sit back and read away....you are sure to learn something new everyday......Abbie Mason ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 10:34:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:34:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!GlassLites From: GlassLites@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Got an idea Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:27:36 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb25.172736.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/22/99, 1:37:29 PM, Shirley B writes: <> I really love your discription. I think what you are describing is called a belaying pin. (my other job is a naval architect). Yeah, I know - I'm working on that bio.... Cheryl Lowe Glass Lites Studio ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 10:42:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:36:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: erols.com!deethom From: Dee Thompson To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re:ng,worm eradication Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:47:17 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990225124715.007566a0@pop.erols.com> Precedence: bulk At 09:12 AM 2/25/99 -0600, Suzanne wrote: >Sorry, but can someone please send me the url for the clean up >instructions for the Happy99 worm? My internet provider just sent this our last Friday Dee ----------------- TIP OF THE WEEK I - Happy99.exe worm - (New) ----------------- Our e-mail support staff answers hundreds of e-mails a day. In the past week, at least five customers have inadvertently sent us this Happy99.exe worm. We figure that about 2 percent of the mail we get is now carrying the Happy99.exe worm and we'd like to get that figure back to zero percent. If you have recently run a program that displays fireworks in a small window that says "Happy New Year 1999", most likely your computer has this worm. First, let's get rid of that program and then we'll tell you more about it. NOTE: As far as we know, this worm ONLY affects Windows 95/98/NT users. Windows 3.1, Macintosh and other operating systems are apparently not affected. ------------ INSTRUCTIONS ------------ 1. Print out these instructions. 2. Click Start | Shut Down | "Restart Computer in MS-DOS mode" 3. At the DOS prompt, type the commands below that are in CAPS exactly, and press enter at the end of each line: 4. CD \WINDOWS\SYSTEM 5. DEL SKA.EXE (Note: If you get a File Not Found error, either you are not infected or this file is located somewhere else on your computer.) 6. DEL SKA.DLL 7. COPY WSOCK32.SKA WSOCK32.DLL 8. Answer "Yes" if it asks if you want to overwrite WSOCK32.DLL. Explanation: WSOCK32.SKA is a backup of the original WSOCK32.DLL made by the virus. You are replacing the modified DLL with the original. 9. Return to Windows by typing EXIT If upon rebooting, Windows displays an error message that it cannot find SKA.exe, continue with the steps below. Note: Using the Registry Editor incorrectly can lead to serious problems in Microsoft Windows and Windows applications. Erols/RCN Internet assumes no responsibility for mistakes or errors that result of incorrectly using the Registry Editor. 1. Click Start | Run, then type regedit and click OK. 2. Click at the + to the left of HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE 3. Click at the + to the left of Software 4. Click at the + to the left of Microsoft 5. Click at the + to the left of Windows 6. Click at the + to the left of CurrentVersion. 7. Look under the following folders: Run, RunOnce, RunOnceEx, RunServices, RunServicesOnce. Check for SKA.EXE and select it if it is there. Hit the Delete key. 8. Close Regedit. There is a file that keeps track of anyone you may have inadvertently sent that file to. It is called: LISTE.SKA and you can find it under C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\LISTE.SKA ------------------------------------- WORMS? I'VE ONLY HEARD ABOUT VIRUSES! ------------------------------------- Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary defines a worm as: "a usually small self-contained computer program that invades computers on a network and usually performs a malicious action." -------------------------- SO WHAT DOES THIS WORM DO? -------------------------- The Happy99.exe is more of a nuisance than a threat. It doesn't delete any files on your computer. It doesn't open a "back door" into your computer (as our next TIP describes). Basically, every time you send an e-mail or post to a newsgroup, you send a copy of the worm to the recipients of your message. And if they run the program, they get infected and then their messages will send out the worm, and so on. For more information, visit the sites below: http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2208275,00.html http://beta.nai.com/public/datafiles/valerts/vinfo/w32ska.htm http://www.anchordesk.com/a/adt0215nk/3093.html http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/3652/SKA.HTM ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 11:02:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:01:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "'Christie A. Wood'" , Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Part 2-Grind/NoGrind (long) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 13:02:04 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.824.0> Precedence: bulk When I first saw the picture in a catalog (forget which one, Charles W.) of a circle cutter, the circle was all scored and there were lines in the waste glass running perp to the circle score. Being new and having been taught to score around and off and then around again. I could not imagine how this score could be released without breaking the circle in half. And then I tried it myself, without the circle cutter. Worked great, no little nibs like I got the other way. Linda -----Original Message----- From: Christie A. Wood [SMTP:Ensembles@compuserve.com] Sent: Thursday, February 25, 1999 11:08 AM To: Bungi Subject: Re: Part 2-Grind/NoGrind (long) They are 2 separate score lines used to create one curve. That's the way I was taught. Thank you ever so much for describing the alternate method whereby you score the entire curve, then go back and add in releaf scores. I shall try that method. This bungi group is great, n'est pas? Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 11:44:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:49:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!SGriffiSBG From: SGriffiSBG@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; Subject: Fwd: respiratiors stained glass Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 13:48:35 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb25.184835.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_919968517_boundary Content-ID: <0_919968517@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I copied this inforamtion from one of the letters and realized after deleting original that there was no brand name. I am interested in P100 but who makes it who sells it and how much does it cost? THANKS FOR ANY INFORMATION ANY ONE MAY HAVE Shirley G > > The only respirators you should use for soldering should be the N100,= the > > R100 or the P100. The N100 and the R100 should only be used about 8 > > consecutive hours. The P100 can be used until it looks bad, is damag= ed, or > > you sense it is harder to breathe through than when new. > > --part0_919968517_boundary Content-ID: <0_919968517@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: SGriffiSBG@aol.com Return-path: To: SGriffiSBG@aol.com Subject: respiratiors stained glass Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 19:19:45 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > The only respirators you should use for soldering should be the N100,= the > > R100 or the P100. The N100 and the R100 should only be used about 8 > > consecutive hours. The P100 can be used until it looks bad, is damag= ed, or > > you sense it is harder to breathe through than when new. > > --part0_919968517_boundary-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 12:03:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:52:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netusa1.net!t6686 From: L Nelson To: Shakeel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Kiln for slumping & fusing Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:05:53 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.6553.0> References: <<1999Feb26.42359.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi, I'm about to purchase a used Microwave kiln.. does anybody have one of these?? Or does anybody know anything about them??? thanks Laura Shakeel wrote: > >Dear K > > > >Check out the Jen-Ken kilns sold by Marty Daily at Center DeVerre > > > >http://www.cdvkiln.com/ > > > >Marty sells to glass artists at prices considerable below retail (an even > >some wholesale) prices. > > > >Elizabeth Johnson > >dmj@cyberportal.net > > Dear K > > Elizabeth is very right. I can vouch for that. Marty has some of the best > prices for kilns > > Warm Regards > > Shakeel Abedi > > shakeel@tm.net.my > Rainbow Stained Glass > 104, Jalan Mersing > 86000 Kluang > Malaysia > Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489 Fax: +607-7733313 > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 12:43:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:05:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Dynasty kits using Chinese imports Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:10:14 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.41014.0> References: <<199902250034.QAA23217@oceanus.island.net>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk Sorry everyone, but I would, soldering is the only thing I really like to do. And not to have to foil, whoopie!!!!!! Shirley B Carol Swann wrote: > > >They are lampshade kits in which the glass is > >already cut and foiled. Also included in the kit > >is the mold upon which you build the lampshade. > >All for not much money. Which leads us to suspect > >they are produced in China using below-market > >wages. Seems Chinese glass is now flooding > >the market. > > Good grief...open package, add water...and presto...an instant lamp. What > on earth will they think of next? Someone must have found out that they can > cut and foil more lamps than they can solder overseas...I can't imagine that > these would catch on over here, or that any retail places would actually > carry them, preferring instead to make money with classes??? > > People who are wanting to learn to make stained glass wouldn't want these > presto instant things, would they? > > C. > > Carol Swann > Synergy Glass & Creative > http://www.igga.org/synergy > seaspray@island.net > > check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: > http://come.to/The_E-Tour > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- x>"3 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 13:14:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:29:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Fwd: Dynasty kits using Chinese imports Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:34:09 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.4349.0> References: <<1999Feb25.131236.0>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk Let me clarify my last statement. I don't make stuff for my personel use, if I did then yes from scratch. I make stuff for craft shows. And I am sure if some of the glass is dull, I would recut it. But think of the time you would save, making production peices. Plus you are doing the soldering, therefore the construction would be good. As for supporting slave labor, that one is hard to justify. But, I will say this, when I am done at the end of the year and figure out my real profit. I have made about $2/hr. Now before you all get in a huff. I sell my products at a good price,that does not cheapen the market and I am only aming at supplimenting my income and keeping busy. Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 13:32:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:35:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Shirley's List" , "L Nelson" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Kiln for slumping & fusing Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:31:02 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.4312.0> Precedence: bulk >>Hi, I'm about to purchase a used Microwave kiln.. does anybody have one of these?? Or does anybody know anything about them??? thanks Laura<< I have one with a three inch round firing chamber. Works great. Fires projects in about four minutes when used in a 1000 watt microwave oven. I like to fuse on ceramic fiber shelf paper. Due to the small size of the kiln most projects less than 1/4" thick will not have a problem with cracking from annealing stress. Also devritification is not a problem due to the fast firing rate. I also have had some success with fusing SOME incompatable glass but can not explain it. Do some experminting. Enjoy your micro kiln- they are a kick. Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass, have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 13:43:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:56:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Breathing Safe & Cle Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 13:01:10 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.5110.0> References: <<199902251230_MC2-6BC7-3D53@compuserve.com>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk Monona Rossol wrote: > > ATF Distribution Center-K. See wrote: > > > > Now can anyone make a suggestion as to what I should buy!!? There is a glut > > of products on the market & was hoping for help in this most important > > purchase. > Thanks, > > K See ....holding my breath in DC metro area. > > The problem is there is not one product for all stained glass artists. It > depends on the configuration of your studio--its size, where windows and > doors are, how its heated, etc., the size of the projects you usually work > on, the materials and processes you use--solder, fluxes, patinas, etches, > grinding glass, etc. > > There is one company that I often end up using. Nederman (313/729-3344) > makes some flexible duct HEPA systems for artists studios that will work for > lead fume. But you need to really look carefully at the systems. They may > not work for you. > > We get 35 inquiries/day here and often people are asking advice about a > particular piece of equipment or a ventilation problem. You are welcome. > > I think I feel a tirade coming on: The real problem with this thread is that > people want a bottom line--short answers to questions and what to buy. I > understand that. But what you all really need to do is study your craft. > And that takes an investment in time. > > You need to learn about your process so you know what gets airborne. You > need to understand the various types of toxic substances created and which > are most and which are least hazardous. You need to read about ventilation > and filtration principles so no one can take advantage of you when you do > purchase something. > > ANd my criticism goes most strongly to the teachers of stained glass. > No stained glass student should ever complete that first class without being > taught this information. And no class in stained glass should be taught > without all the right ventilation equipment for the process already in place > in the classroom. To teach any other way is unethical. > > There. I feel better. > > Monona Rossol > 181 Thompson St., # 23 > New York NY 10012-2586 212/777-0062 -- x>"3 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 14:03:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:59:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cyberbeach.net!dayle From: Swinger To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: New member Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:57:20 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.105720.0> Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, just thought I'd pop in to say hi. I'm looking forward to participating. You can't know too many glass people! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 14:13:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 13:39:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: stratus.com!charles_spitzer From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Kiln for slumping & fusing Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:33:35 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990225143335.00b3c480@atlas2.az.stratus.com> Precedence: bulk i'd really like to find one of these. if anyone has a line on them, please let me know. also, i would assume you wouldn't want to do this in your kitchen with your everyday microwave. regards, charlie phx, az >Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:05:53 -0800 >Subject: Re: Kiln for slumping & fusing >Sender: t6686@netusa1.net >From: t6686@netusa1.net >To: shakeel@tm.net.my > >Hi, I'm about to purchase a used Microwave kiln.. does anybody have one of >these?? >Or does anybody know anything about them??? >thanks Laura ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 14:50:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 13:51:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Revisited this site. Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 13:55:53 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.55553.0> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk I was cleaning up my mail, when I ran accross this site(thank you Dale Bentley). Check out page 16, it shows a rather large window done entirely in copper foil. And Howard, I think even you would be impressed with his lamps. http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~itashiro/index.html Enjoy. Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 15:50:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:49:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!SGriffiSBG From: SGriffiSBG@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; Subject: NG:Upgrade Warning Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 17:45:11 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb25.224511.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_919982711_boundary Content-ID: <0_919982711@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII --part0_919982711_boundary Content-ID: <0_919982711@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: JGriffi276@aol.com Return-path: To: SGriffiSBG@aol.com Subject: Upgrade Warning Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:23:55 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit UPGRADE WARNING Tech Support Request Last year I upgraded from GIRLFRIEND 6.1 to WIFE 1.0 and noticed that shortly thereafter the new program began to experience unexpected child processing. This took up a lot of time, space and valuable resources. No mention of this phenomenon was included in the product brochure. In addition, WIFE 1.0 installs itself into all of my other programs, which launches during system initialization where it monitors other systems activity. Applications such as Poker Night 10.3, Beer Bash 2.5, and even Boys Night Out 22.5 are no longer able to run; crashing the system whenever selected. It even locked up during NFL 4.6, and when I rebooted. "Touched by an Angel" was on my Desktop. I cannot seem to purge WIFE 1.0 from my system. I am thinking about going back to GIRLFRIEND 6.1 but I cannot get uninstall to work on this program. Can you help me? Jonathan Barker Recommendation Dear Mr. Barker: This is a very common problem men complain about but is mostly due to a primary misunderstanding of the program itself. Many men upgrade from the GIRLFRIEND software to WIFE 1.0 with the idea that this new system operates as a BASIC UTILITIES & ENTERTAINMENT program, including more in the Entertainment package. As you have discovered, this is certainly not true. WIFE 1.0 is an OPERATING SYSTEM and designed by the Creator to run everything. It is almost impossible to uninstall, delete, or purge this program from the system once installed. You cannot go back to GIRLFRIEND 6.1 because WIFE 1.0 has built in safeguards, which will not allow this. Many have tried to pursue a GIRLFRIEND 7.0 or WIFE 2.0 but end up with more problems than original system. I recommend you keep WIFE 1.0 and deal with current situation. That software is built to be User Friendly, however it is not very fault tolerant. [Note: Look for more details in your manual under Warnings: Alimony, Child Support, Asset Loss Divisions] Having WIFE 1.0 installed on my own system, I might also suggest you read the entire section regarding General Protection Faults (GPFs). You must assume responsibility for both your faults and problems that occur within the system. The best procedure when faults occur, and especially when WIFE 1.0 locks up the system is to push Apologize / Reset button [sometimes this will entail you getting down on your knees, begging the system to work]. All in all, WIFE 1.0 is a great program but is very high maintenance. Your friend, Techie Support --part0_919982711_boundary-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 16:20:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:35:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: t6686@netusa1.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Dynasty kits using Chinese imports Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:39:52 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.73952.0> References: <<36D60A17.A1FC87BD@netusa1.net>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk Chistie Wood started it by asking about them. I have never seen them. However I have seen the ones done for stepping stones. The glass is cut in intricate peices, by a company that uses a water jet. So no slave labor there. Maybe the Chinese have a water jet and our consciouses could be clear!!!! Shirley B L Nelson wrote: > > Hi, I guess I missed the beginning of these post were can a person find out about > these kits?? or the price because I'm with you NO FOILING!!! > Thanks laura > > Shirley Balloch wrote: > > > Sorry everyone, but I would, soldering is the only thing I really like > > to do. And not to have to foil, whoopie!!!!!! > > Shirley B > > > > Carol Swann wrote: > > > > > > >They are lampshade kits in which the glass is > > > >already cut and foiled. Also included in the kit > > > >is the mold upon which you build the lampshade. > > > >All for not much money. Which leads us to suspect > > > >they are produced in China using below-market > > > >wages. Seems Chinese glass is now flooding > > > >the market. > > > > > > Good grief...open package, add water...and presto...an instant lamp. What > > > on earth will they think of next? Someone must have found out that they can > > > cut and foil more lamps than they can solder overseas...I can't imagine that > > > these would catch on over here, or that any retail places would actually > > > carry them, preferring instead to make money with classes??? > > > > > > People who are wanting to learn to make stained glass wouldn't want these > > > presto instant things, would they? > > > > > > C. > > > > > > Carol Swann > > > Synergy Glass & Creative > > > http://www.igga.org/synergy > > > seaspray@island.net > > > > > > check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: > > > http://come.to/The_E-Tour > > > > > > ---- > > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > -- > > x>"3 > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- x>"3 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 16:43:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:41:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: city-net.com!dany From: "Daniela Birkelbach" To: "B.Lierath" , "List" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: New member of the group Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:40:36 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.134036.0> Precedence: bulk Hallo Burkhard! Here is another German (from Cologne) who is part of the international bungi group. I'm sure you and your wife will enjoy this list tremendously. Herzlich Willkommen! Daniela http://www.city-net.com/~dany -----Original Message----- From: B.Lierath To: List Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 2:24 PM Subject: New member of the group > >Hi group, > >May I introduce myself? My name is Burkhard Lierath >and I am living in Berlin, Germany >And you will find out soon enough, that English is not my >natural language, but I can bring my message across. >(At least most of the time) >Of course I like to work with glass! >I am married and my wife Elisabeth is owning a little studio. >She has regular opening times and beside working with >glass, we do sell glass and tools etc. The income is still >not enough to make a decent living, but we survive. >In addition to flatglass work, we do fusing, pate de verre >and also sandblasting in addition to other things. >Elisabeth is giving classes on regular basis, but mostly >she is working for customers. >Dont get me wrong! We are still kind of amateurs because >we feel, that it will take long years to master an art. >If workload is low, we go to classes and seminars ourself and = > >of course, we experiment a lot. (Sometimes with success) >This should be enough for a first mail. We will look into >the mailbox on regualar intervalls and will return incoming >e-mails within a week. (Most times within 2 days) > >Best regards from the City of Berlin, > >Burkhard >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 18:02:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 17:13:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.megsinet.net!pjnelson From: Paula Nelson To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Dynasty kits using Chinese imports Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:39:13 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.123913.0> Precedence: bulk >Which leads us to suspect >they are produced in China using below-market >wages. Seems Chinese glass is now flooding >the market. In 1994 I ordered several lamps for my gift venture in an antique/gift mall. The gentleman that runs the company I ordered from, has the last name of Tiffany and uses that to his benefit. I went to their outlet in the Chicago Merchandise Mart - liked what I saw and when I recieved the shipment I asked them why it took so long for it to arrive. Turns out.... they were re working their factory... in China. I thought about that awhile and I have all the lamps to this day. I can imagine what the daily pay rate is there and I decided I didn't want to contribute to the situation. The glass is inferior to what I purchase for my own work... and so I can imagine what is coming in these kits. Paula Nelson pjnelson@glassdogstudio.com http://www.glassdogstudio.com/TGDS.htm ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 18:22:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:54:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Glass holder Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:14:20 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.71420.0> Precedence: bulk Just wanted to mention - Lee Valley Tools (www.leevalley.com) carries a super-high friction tape. Higher friction than Dycem or other no-slip surfaces. In fact it may be too high friction for many applications. But when you truely do not want something to slip on a surface at all, this is the stuff you want. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 19:43:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:47:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "Suzanne" , Subject: New E-mail address Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:21:13 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.162113.0> Precedence: bulk My ISP sold/went belly up, who knows and I have spend the last 4 hours, trying to get things set up on the computer. We finally have it working, I think. Anyhow here we go. Linda Jo Letcher is now at e-mail address: andor@ilnk.com Later, LJ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 20:16:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:55:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ilnk.com!andor From: "Linda Jo Letscher" To: "bungi.com" Subject: subscribe Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:53:43 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.165343.0> Precedence: bulk andor@ilnk.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 21:09:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:54:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: sk.sympatico.ca!dbarker From: D Barker To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: glass cements & glues Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:50:45 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.155045.0> Precedence: bulk Greetings, fellow glass artists. My name is Dawn Barker, and I'm a married, 33 year old mother of 3/gym coach & choreographer/glass artist/homemaker/herbalist/astrology nut/gardener. And a muddle-minded Piscean, with several planets in the 12th house. (Yes, it does make for a rather busy and confusing existence). I've been doing stained glass, on and off, for 18 years now, and have made pieces with copper foil, leading, patio stone technique and mosaic. I live in rural Saskatchewan, Canada, in a town of only 500 people. (In fact, I've got mail addressed only to: Dawn, Arcola, Sask.. No kidding! ) The lady I learned from was a Dutch artist, who used (among the others) a technique of mosaic in which glass was fitted quite snugly and then cemented in place with a special glass epoxy which turned opaque when dried. I seem to remember that it came in a white pail, about 1/2 gallon size, from the U.S. Unfortunately, I was unable to get the name of the stuff before she moved. (The consistency was a lot like mixed Diamond Crete, without the grit, but that doesn't work. I know. I've tried.) I really didn't try too hard to get it either, cause I was 'into' copper foil method at the time. *sigh* I've used 5 minute epoxy in small suncatchers since, and it works well, but she had done larger pieces (over a foot square) with this stuff, and I really can't see cleaning up a whole foot of glass... the cleanup with the 5 minute kind is really sort of exhausting! : ) Another thing I was wondering about... my parents have a big old pottery kiln that I'd like to try to slump glass in... if I can. Is this possible, or will I just end up making as big a mess as in the 70s when I ironed one of my cool rayon shirts on "high" with their iron? *cringe* I can still smell that baby... That is to say... does one have to have a special 'glass kiln' or can one use a pottery one? Thanks all for your help! Dawn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 22:21:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:45:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cros.net!soraya From: "Soraya" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Glass Sites I Found Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 00:44:45 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.194445.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks Linda for the sites...I had fun surfing to a few new places...rather than my usual round of sites... The Mermaid panel at Gilbertson's Stained Glass is now my wallpaper on the computer!! It is simply gorgous...I can't wait for my little one to see it in the morning..she's four and loves mermaids. Thank-you for her as well! (I only hope she doens't ask, "Momy, can you make me one?" lol) Take Care, Soraya ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Soraya may reached at... soraya@cros.net ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Soraya's Witches' Thicket t.... http://www.cros.net/soraya ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Man must go back to nature for information. --Thomas Paine ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Feb 25 23:22:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 22:35:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: MD6868@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: New member of the group Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 00:37:47 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.183747.0> References: <<1999Feb25.163754.0>> Precedence: bulk > Although we are both of Irish descent, I am of the lace curtain > variety, and he is definitely "shanty Irish". Since your first post was > largely biographical, perhaps he won't bother you for a biography, and you'll > be spared. Welcome, and enjoy > > Richard Wow! If you are the lace variety, and Patrick is of the Shanty variety...I am really curious what the *lace* variety wear!! ;o) Tulsa Suzanne -- "Winning isn't always finishing first. Sometimes winning is just finishing." Manuel Diotte ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 00:48:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 23:36:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel" To: "ATF Distribution Center-K. See" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Dynasty Lamp Kits / Spectrum Glass Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:14:44 +0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.231444.0> Precedence: bulk To K See, et al There is one slight misinformation reagarding the precut lamp kits that I would like to clarify. The kit contents: Precut and foiled glass pieces. (Both of very inferior quality) Pattern Vase cap & A thin black plastic mold (for one use only) Now the kits are being marketed by the name of Dynasty kits by Daimond Tech International and NOT by Spectrum Glass Company. Spectrum is now selling some clear glass which is made in China. But they have nothing to do with the kits. To find out more about the kits visit: http://www.dticrafts.com/ I really have no qualms or objections for these kits. I am only unhappy about the quality of work and the fact that they were made in China was never anywhere mentioned. My main point is if I want something from China I will get it from there, and not U.S. I would even support such precut kits if the were of good quality glass and workmaship. Take the scenario: I am busy with a big panel and I am a one man show, I have a deadline to meet and a friend comes and says, "Hey Shakeel, I need a lamp for my wife's birthday two weeks from now." I can't say because getting one made will be delaying my work, and I can't say no because he is a good friend and customer" Dynasty would have helped me in such tight corner. But sadly, I have made the lamp from the kit I got and and have kept on show. Now I tell my customers, this is why you pay me extra, this is what you get if you want it cheap" Sitting next to the Chestnut lamp I made from Spectrum and Kokomo glass it IS a VERY convicing line. Warm Regards Shakeel Abedi shakeel@tm.net.my Rainbow Stained Glass 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Malaysia Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489 Fax: +607-7733313 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 01:17:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 23:37:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: NG:Upgrade Warning Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:12:19 +0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.221219.0> Precedence: bulk That was a good one. Enjoyed it! Shakeel Abedi shakeel@tm.net.my Rainbow Stained Glass 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Malaysia Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489 Fax: +607-7733313 >UPGRADE WARNING > >Tech Support Request > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 01:36:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 23:19:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Shirley's List" , "Bungi" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Kiln for slumping & fusing Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 23:14:46 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb25.151446.0> Precedence: bulk >>Hi, I am getting the kiln so that I can fuse (melt) two pcs. of glass together I thought you could place one on top of the other and melt them together am I way off???? I don't know anything about kilns And I didn't think this threw I am going to have to get a microwave now to use in the shop.. I'm new to this whole stained glass thing.. so any suggestions would be helpful thanks Laura<< Yes, you can stack two pieces of glass and fuse them together. There is (was) a book or two expressly for the microwave kilns. Must be out of print by now but you can do a search. Cann't seem to find mine. These kilns came out about 1991 and after a couple of years were dropped from my catalogs. Someone said it was because they were made of asbestos but I think they are made of ceramic fiber. They are hard to come by now. My Micro-Kiln EZ-5 was made by LVR Products, Inc., Gardenia, CA. I will forward the two pages of instructions, as attachments, to you and anyone else that requests them from ME (not the list). These instructions are for the kiln only and you would be well advised to get a text on glass fusing . My all time favorate is "Warm Glass" by Shar Moreland. Out of print but available on back order from Amazon.com at last check. One of the precautions reads, "Always clean the inside of your microwave oven after using the MICRO-KILN EZ-5 and before using your microwave oven for food preparation." I have never found any visual residue in my microwave after using it to fuse in. I would be concerned if I used the kiln for toxic glass paints. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass, have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 02:21:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 01:30:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep From: "Brian Shepherd" To: "bungi" Subject: Re: Kiln for slumping & fusing Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:10:44 -0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.91044.0> Precedence: bulk Uncle Bob My turn to be dumb - again! Was that bit about cleaning a microwave oven after fusing a joke? If not does that mean I can fuse in my kitchen mw? You know I believe everything you tell me Bob! Tired, confused and befuddled BtB -> >One of the precautions reads, "Always clean the inside of your >microwave oven after using the MICRO-KILN EZ-5 and before using your >microwave oven for food preparation." I have never found any visual >residue in my microwave after using it to fuse in. I would be >concerned if I used the kiln for toxic glass paints. Bob > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 06:37:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 05:51:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ll.mit.edu!cogen From: David Cogen To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Kiln for slumping & fusing Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 08:49:29 -0500 Message-ID: <199902261341.IAA04974@ll.mit.edu> Precedence: bulk > i'd really like to find one of these. if anyone has a line on them, please > let me know. I hear they are no longer manufactured. I guess they figured they were too dangerous and were afraid of lawsuits. > also, i would assume you wouldn't want to do this in your kitchen with your > everyday microwave This may be why they decided to stop making them. How many are going to be able to resist the temptation to use their everyday microwave, promising themselves that they'll buy a dedicated microwave "soon". -- DavidC ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 08:37:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 08:03:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!MD6868 From: MD6868@aol.com To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: New member of the group Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:59:49 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb26.155949.0> Precedence: bulk Suzanne, I'm surprised you needed to ask! Lace curtains, what else !! Richard ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 09:09:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 08:10:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Part 2-Grind/NoGrind Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:08:57 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.6857.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Northernlights (Tracy Reitmann)" >I found in some cases the foil was coming up off the glass as I was foiling. The only thing I could think of (after I realized I hadn't put any of the pieces to the grinder) was that the edges were too "clean" from not being on the grinder and the foil wasn't sticking. What do you think?< A couple of people have reported foil not sticking very well to certain types of glass. So far I have used Youghigheny ripple, Wissmach glue chip, and Vasa clear textured, all of which took the foil quite nicely. Types of foil used: Venture 3/16" 1 mil black-backed, Ecco 7/32" 1.5 mil black-backed, and Venture 1/4" 1.5 mil copper. So...maybe there are certain types of glass in which the foil doesn't stick to un-ground edges, but so far I haven't hit upon that combination. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 09:30:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 08:16:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cyberbeach.net!dayle From: Swinger To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Fwd: Dynasty kits using Chinese imports Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:15:20 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.61520.0> References: <<1999Feb25.4349.0>> Precedence: bulk I could never in good conscience be able to bring one of these Dynasty lamp kits to a craft show and sell it as one of my own. What kind of a craft show would allow the use of patterns and kits? If they are used for this purpose I think they undermine the efforts of those who are trying to make a living doing stained glass. There's no easy way to increase your profits. You have to put in the work. If after a year you find that you've only made about $2/hr then there must be something wrong with your pricing policy. You shouldn't be working for nothing, you're devaluing your own work. If you have a good product, the people who appreciate it will be willing to pay what it's worth. Am I being too harsh? Shirley Balloch wrote: > Let me clarify my last statement. > I don't make stuff for my personel use, if I did then yes from scratch. > I make stuff for craft shows. And I am sure if some of the glass is > dull, I would recut it. But think of the time you would save, making > production peices. Plus you are doing the soldering, therefore the > construction would be good. > As for supporting slave labor, that one is hard to justify. But, I will > say this, when I am done at the end of the year and figure out my real > profit. I have made about $2/hr. Now before you all get in a huff. I > sell my products at a good price,that does not cheapen the market and I > am only aming at supplimenting my income and keeping busy. > Shirley B > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 10:10:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:20:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: home.net!esavad From: "M. Savad" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Part 2-Grind/NoGrind Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:19:24 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.71924.0> References: <<1999Feb26.6857.0>> Precedence: bulk Christie A. Wood wrote: > > Message text written by "Northernlights (Tracy Reitmann)" > >I found > in some cases the foil was coming up off the glass as I was foiling. > The only thing I could think of (after I realized I hadn't put any of > the pieces to the grinder) was that the edges were too "clean" from not > being on the grinder and the foil wasn't sticking. What do you think?< > > A couple of people have reported foil not sticking very well > to certain types of glass. So far I have used Youghigheny > ripple, Wissmach glue chip, and Vasa clear textured, all of > which took the foil quite nicely. Types of foil used: Venture > 3/16" 1 mil black-backed, Ecco 7/32" 1.5 mil black-backed, > and Venture 1/4" 1.5 mil copper. So...maybe there are certain > types of glass in which the foil doesn't stick to un-ground > edges, but so far I haven't hit upon that combination. > > Christie A. Wood > Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, > P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 > http://www.igga.org/wood/ > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass glass is glass, foil will stick to it. it depends on what the texture is though. if it's a heavy ripple, it's going to flare more. and one side of the foil (rippled side), won't have alot of contact with the glass. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 2-1-98 New Pages Added: 20 New Links in 3 Categories, The Brilliance Award is up, Updated the sample critique, Updated glass indentification too and A Look at Sky City ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 10:29:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:26:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: got almost all the pieces cut out!!! Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:06:39 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.1639.0> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk such as I work...rather slowly....I cut out almost all the pieces for my kitty clock...am so pleased that my cutting skills seem to not have deteriorated in the couple of years since I have actually done a project (as opposed to accumulating pattern books for "someday"). I only broke one tip off of one piece and had to redo...everything else came out real nice...if anything I think I will have less grinding than I had on the two projects I made in the class...everything seems to fit together real nice...I think it helped I used foil shears to cut out the pattern.... all I have to do now is some itsy bitsy filler pieces, some of which the woman at the store told me I would be "wise" to combine into one larger piece rather than trying to go for the detail in the pattern. I should be grinding by tomorrow...never used my grinder before.... dumb confession of the day: I decided to cut "just one more piece" on a trip into my workroom/office to do something on the computer...I was barefoot...now am faced with removing an itsy bitsy sliver from my foot...ugh...just goes to show you, you think you can get away with it "just this once" and it'll get ya every time..... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 11:16:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:37:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Brian Shepherd" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Kiln for slumping & fusing Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:32:57 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.23257.0> Precedence: bulk Brian! Yes, I have used my kitchen microwave to fuse in. Heck I've even done it in the bedroom. I have used my microwave kiln off and on over a period of about seven years for prehaps 200 firings. It is as good as new except that I plugged the peep hole in the top and drilled one in the side so I could see in when the kiln is in the oven. I must admit that over the past seven years I have experienced an increasing number of health problems. My hair has turned gray and I have gained weight. I have even been thinking of getting the doctor to give me some pills to increase my youthful viggor but my lady friend thinks that is a bad idea and I don't know if my heart would take the increased strain. Right now I need to get my glasses perscription checked and my left elbow hurts like he**. It has been bothering me for about seven years now. Perhaps I should see the doctor about that too. Bob (who only lies when he wants to) Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass, have class. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Shepherd To: bungi Date: Friday, February 26, 1999 2:34 AM Subject: Re: Kiln for slumping & fusing >Uncle Bob > >My turn to be dumb - again! > >Was that bit about cleaning a microwave oven after fusing a joke? > >If not does that mean I can fuse in my kitchen now? > >You know I believe everything you tell me Bob! > >Tired, confused and befuddled > >BtB > >-> >>One of the precautions reads, "Always clean the inside of your >>microwave oven after using the MICRO-KILN EZ-5 and before using your >>microwave oven for food preparation." I have never found any visual >>residue in my microwave after using it to fuse in. I would be >>concerned if I used the kiln for toxic glass paints. Bob >> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 11:44:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:38:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: Swinger Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Fwd: Dynasty kits using Chinese imports Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:42:53 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.24253.0> References: <<1999Feb26.61520.0>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk No your are not being too harsh. I suspect you have never done craft shows. Until you find the right ones and believe me that takes research, you have a lot of shows that cost you money to do. They all eat into the overall profits. I think it takes about 3 years to get it right. Anyway I certainly hope so, cause this is my 4th year! Even then a good show can be rained out(literally). Craft shows do not necessarily mean orginial, they mean you had to do it yourself by hand. And I can assure you that I have been to quality juried shows, that have allowed vendors with third world country's machine made items. I have never made a lamp and have no intention of ever making one other than the prairie style. And I can't think of anything that is comparable as to premade pieces in another craft. But craft shows are production work. Clear and simple and anything to lessen the time(if the quality is good)sounds good to me. Shirley B Swinger wrote: > > I could never in good conscience be able to bring one of these Dynasty lamp > kits to a craft show and sell it as one of my own. What kind of a craft > show would allow the use of patterns and kits? > If they are used for this purpose I think they undermine the efforts of > those who are trying to make a living doing stained glass. There's no easy > way to increase your profits. You have to put in the work. If after a year > you find that you've only made about $2/hr then there must be something > wrong with your pricing policy. You shouldn't be working for nothing, > you're devaluing your own work. If you have a good product, the people who > appreciate it will be willing to pay what it's worth. Am I being too > harsh? > > Shirley Balloch wrote: > > > Let me clarify my last statement. > > I don't make stuff for my personel use, if I did then yes from scratch. > > I make stuff for craft shows. And I am sure if some of the glass is > > dull, I would recut it. But think of the time you would save, making > > production peices. Plus you are doing the soldering, therefore the > > construction would be good. > > As for supporting slave labor, that one is hard to justify. But, I will > > say this, when I am done at the end of the year and figure out my real > > profit. I have made about $2/hr. Now before you all get in a huff. I > > sell my products at a good price,that does not cheapen the market and I > > am only aming at supplimenting my income and keeping busy. > > Shirley B > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- x>"3 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 11:47:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:38:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Breathing Safe & Cle Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:43:18 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.24318.0> References: <<199902261147_MC2-6BED-1FA9@compuserve.com>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk Monona Rossol wrote: > > Shirley B wrote: > > > I think you are right, this is a good thread for bungian's. > > Can you recommend a good book for starters, or a web site to visit? > > Thanks in advance. < > > We have a website, but it is just to help people find us. The Center for > Safety in the Arts I think still has one, but I don't know what it is since I > don't surf. > > I've written six books, but the one that would be most applicable and > available now is: > > *The Artist's Complete Health & Safety Guide.* It covers the laws, > toxicology, hazards, precautions for most arts and crafts including stained > glass. It is available in some art stores (who have the courage), but there > is a credit card order at: 800/491-2808 It cost $19.95 plus $3.00 > postage/handling > > I also have a three page data sheet that condenses the hazards of stained > glass and provides a list of precautions. While ACTS charges $0.25/page for > copying/mailing, we usually just send it free to those who ask for it. I'd > be glad to do this for Bungi as long as the numbers are something we can > handle. ACTS is a small non-profit that survives primarily on earned income > from lectures, courses, OSHA training, consults, etc.. So far we have done > well enough that we have been able to maintain our policy of not soliciting > funds from individuals. We figure if we are serving artists, we are probably > serving the poor. > > What this means is that people who ask for stuff from us are not going to > get those mailings that most non-profits send out once they have your name. > > Another data sheet that should be of interest to teachers is a "Rationale for > banning lead in public schools." I think it is 3 or 4 pages, too. I > really think anyone who teaches using lead in any way in a high school or > college should know just how many laws they are violating and how > undefensible it is if the issue comes before the courts or if the public gets > involved. > > Anyway, its better to read the legal bad news in a data sheet that listen to > it later in public place where there are 12 people sitting in a box. > > The best manual I wrote on the subject is out of print. It was briefly > distributed by Professional Stained Glass mag before they went down for the > count. It was an OSHA right to know training manual. It started out with > the requirements of the law and general technical information on air quality > standards, toxicology, etc. The rest of the ring binder was divided into > sections. The first was on Solders which discussed all the hazards and > precautions for using solders and was followed by 15 or 20 material safety > data sheets for common solders used at that time. Other sections were on > fluxes, patinas, glass paints, cleaners etc. > > Every business that has employees is required to have a written right to know > or hazard communication program. All employers had to do to meet the laws > back then was to add any MSDSs they use that are not in the book, etc. The > manual also could be used for worker training. > > Maybe someone has some ideas about how we could update this manual for > stained glass users today. > > Monona Rossol > 181 Thompson St., # 23 > New York NY 10012-2586 212/777-0062 -- x>"3 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 12:10:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:50:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netusa1.net!t6686 From: L Nelson To: Elizabeth Arakelian Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: got almost all the pieces cut out!!! Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:04:02 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.642.0> References: <<1999Feb26.1639.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi, do you cut out pattern pcs. and glue them on glass and then cut I have not tried this yet I have a really hard time getting my pcs. to fit together usually there are big gaps..thanks laura Elizabeth Arakelian wrote: > such as I work...rather slowly....I cut out almost all the pieces for my > kitty clock...am so pleased that my cutting skills seem to not have > deteriorated in the couple of years since I have actually done a project > (as opposed to accumulating pattern books for "someday"). I only broke > one tip off of one piece and had to redo...everything else came out real > nice...if anything I think I will have less grinding than I had on the > two projects I made in the class...everything seems to fit together real > nice...I think it helped I used foil shears to cut out the pattern.... > all I have to do now is some itsy bitsy filler pieces, some of which the > woman at the store told me I would be "wise" to combine into one larger > piece rather than trying to go for the detail in the pattern. I should > be grinding by tomorrow...never used my grinder before.... > dumb confession of the day: I decided to cut "just one more piece" on a > trip into my workroom/office to do something on the computer...I was > barefoot...now am faced with removing an itsy bitsy sliver from my > foot...ugh...just goes to show you, you think you can get away with it > "just this once" and it'll get ya every time..... > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 12:18:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:26:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ior.com!glshorse From: Elizabeth Arakelian To: t6686@netusa1.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: got almost all the pieces cut out!!! Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:06:46 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.3646.0> References: <<36D71A52.B698401D@netusa1.net>> Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian Precedence: bulk L Nelson wrote: > > Hi, do you cut out pattern pcs. and glue them on glass and then cut I have > not tried this yet I have a really hard time getting my pcs. to fit together > usually there are big gaps..thanks laura > what I do is I use masking tape...very small pieces folded over...I have also seen people use a spray adhesive....not sure if you get it in a glass store...I saw some in a horse mag which is intended for (I kid you not) giving peoples butts some grip in the saddle...doubt I'd ever use it for that purpose..seems too hokey to me...but at the time I saw it my first thought was "glass adhesive" I also have some double sided tape which I got at a glass supplier...it is a pain to remove the backing from though. as for the cutting...practice practice practice...I try to groze off as much as I can but I sort of have a sense of when to stop while I am ahead if I think I am going to break the piece getting just a tiny bit more off...I figure better to grind a little more than lose the piece. Hope this helps. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 12:36:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:32:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cros.net!soraya From: "Soraya" To: "bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Have my bio...now.... Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:32:25 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.93225.0> Precedence: bulk Well, I got the whole bio-thing done, so all of you may now know more about me that you really want to....but now I can't find Patrick O'Tutu's email addy. Can someone help?? Take Care, Soraya ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Soraya may reached at... soraya@cros.net ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Soraya's Witches' Thicket at.... http://www.cros.net/soraya ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Man must go back to nature for information. --Thomas Paine ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 12:49:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:00:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cyberbeach.net!dayle From: Swinger To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: Fwd: Dynasty kits using Chinese imports Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:59:15 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.95915.0> References: <<36D6EA56.624F@netbridge.net>> Precedence: bulk Shirley Balloch wrote: > No your are not being too harsh. > I suspect you have never done craft shows. Until you find the right > ones and believe me that takes research, you have a lot of shows that > cost you money to do. They all eat into the overall profits. I think > it takes about 3 years to get it right. Anyway I certainly hope so, > cause this is my 4th year! Even then a good show can be rained > out(literally). > Craft shows do not necessarily mean orginial, they mean you had to do i= t > yourself by hand. And I can assure you that I have been to quality > juried shows, that have allowed vendors with third world country's > machine made items. > I have never made a lamp and have no intention of ever making one other > than the prairie style. And I can't think of anything that is > comparable as to premade pieces in another craft. > But craft shows are production work. Clear and simple and anything to > lessen the time(if the quality is good)sounds good to me. > Shirley B > Well Shirley, I do attend craft shows, in fact I make my living doing sta= ined glass. My feeling is if you attend the juried shows that don't allow pat= terns or kits, there you will find the really good stuff and the type of consumer = that appreciates it and is willing to pay for it. It does take time to weed = out the bad shows though but once you've found a good one.....boy is it worth it!= ! Make and take your best stuff and in no time you'll develop a reputation which= will bring you repeat customers and referrals. This way you won't be working = for $2/hr but will be generating an income more deserving of your talents. > --- > > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > -- > x=9F>"3=16=01=06=90=08 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 14:18:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:28:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: foil not sticking was: Part 2-Grind/NoGrind Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:48:11 -0800 Message-ID: <199902262048.MAA05970@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk >A couple of people have reported foil not sticking very well >to certain types of glass. So far I have used Youghigheny >ripple, Wissmach glue chip, and Vasa clear textured, all of >which took the foil quite nicely. Types of foil used: Venture >3/16" 1 mil black-backed, Ecco 7/32" 1.5 mil black-backed, >and Venture 1/4" 1.5 mil copper. So...maybe there are certain Actually Christie, I find it has more to do with the black back on the foil. I rarely use it because I've consistently found that it doesn't stick as well for me as the silver back (most used) or copper back (occasionally used). I've just done a bunch of foiling and found that copper back and silver back 7/32 Venture stick just fine to unground Spectrum, unground glue chip and unground Bullseye. Don't have access to Yough at a reasonable price and I'm not sure what Vasa is (architectural?). My 2 cents worth... C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 14:47:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:00:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Bob lies Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:48:44 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.114844.0> References: <<1999Feb26.23257.0>> Precedence: bulk Bob E Duchesneau wrote: > ... I have even been thinking of getting the doctor to > give me some pills to increase my youthful viggor but my lady friend > thinks that is a bad idea and I don't know if my heart would take the > increased strain. Must be connected to the sig > ...Bob (who only lies when he wants to) You lie where? (Maybe we should ask the lady friend) Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 15:03:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:07:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: iname.com!goldenlad From: goldenlad@iname.com (Steve) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Help with dissassembling a leaded panel. Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 22:13:15 GMT Message-ID: <1999Feb26.221315.0> Precedence: bulk I'm trying to take apart and relead a panel and am having problems taking the old lead off. The cement has formed a very hard joint between the lead and the glass. Can cement be softened by application of Linseed oil, (the panel is over 50 years old and I don't want to risk breaking any of the painted glass). Any tips on taking apart an old panel are greatly welcomed. TIA Steve ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 15:19:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:10:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: "B.Lierath" Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: New member of the group Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:08:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1999Feb26.6845.0> References: <<1999Feb24.85150.0>> Precedence: bulk Welcome Burkhard. It sounds like you will make a valuable contribution to our group because of your varied experiences in glass, fusing and sandblasting. My name is Peggy and I have a stained glass studio in Santa Maria, California. I teach stained glass at the local air base and do commissions for clients. Lately I have been experimenting with fusing and this can really be additive. We will look forward to your comments. Peggy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 15:22:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:20:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Part 2-Grind/NoGrind Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 17:18:48 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.121848.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Mike Savad" >glass is glass, foil will stick to it. it depends on what the texture is= though. if it's a heavy ripple, it's going to flare more. and one side of the foil (rippled side), won't have alot of contact with the glass.< Actually, the foil stuck quite well to the Youghiogheny ripple. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 15:39:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:21:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Patrick Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 17:18:56 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.121856.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Soraya" >...Patrick O'Tutu...< ROTFL ! (Rolling On the Floor Laughing for all those who don't know what that stands for.) Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 15:57:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:07:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Breathing Safe & Cle Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:07:20 -0800 Message-ID: <199902262307.PAA10370@oceanus.island.net> Precedence: bulk Monona Rossol wrote: >> I also have a three page data sheet that condenses the hazards of stained >> glass and provides a list of precautions. While ACTS charges $0.25/page for >> copying/mailing, we usually just send it free to those who ask for it. I'd >> be glad to do this for Bungi as long as the numbers are something we can >> handle. ACTS is a small non-profit that survives primarily on earned income >> from lectures, courses, OSHA training, consults, etc.. So far we have Maybe this could be made available electronically on bungi...one post to the whole group at no charge for postage. Or maybe Albert could put it up on the igga site or something, again cost free to your group. What say you, Monona? Please use a good descriptive subject line so it can be easily found in people's email files. C. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative http://www.igga.org/synergy seaspray@island.net check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: http://come.to/The_E-Tour ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 16:14:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:09:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: "Glass List" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: show ?'s Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:14:03 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.4143.0> Precedence: bulk Although we like to think all of the art we show at Holtenwood Gallery is "fine", I suspect many of the pretentious downtown galleries would disagree that it was "fine art". We are closer to a "crafts gallery". Some of our stuff even edges towards the "gift" category although it is all local, quality and handmade. Located in a remoter location we have to cater to a wider range of clientele than would a city based gallery. We do try to offer our artists a chance to show works that are perhaps more of a stretch. We do this by having a special "show" room where we put on individual or group shows about four times a year. The other three rooms contain quite a range of art much of which probably does not quite fit the "fine art" category. I just wanted to let everyone know this so they understand my attitudes are possibly very different from some other gallery owners. Adriana and I feel very strongly that art is for everybody and everybody should create art if they want to. Distinctions between "high art", "fine art", "low art", "crafts" are all load of crap. What is important is creative expression and quality of workmanship. -----Original Message----- From: Dani Greer To: Tim Atwood Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 2:35 PM Subject: Re: show ?'s >Very nice bit of input, Tim. Would you consider contributing a >write-up like this to Common Ground:Glass, the magazine for >IGGA? It's an interesting slant since most stained glass artists >don't even consider approaching a fine art gallery.... etc... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 16:23:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:33:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: "Albert Lewis" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: What's in a Name? Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:32:19 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.73219.0> Precedence: bulk Oh, and just in case anyone thinks I'm some kind of superhuman for my customer service policies, let me assure you all I have faults. I always think I can do more than I possibly can and I am always promising more than I can possibly do. Which is sort of a sideways notice to Albert. Sorry, I have not sent the stuff I promissed to email by Thursday. It be there Saturday :-) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 16:29:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:09:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: What's in a Name? Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:03:38 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.7338.0> Precedence: bulk Oh, and as an addendum to my last message: Of course, I also recognize that anything I make below a certain price range (depending on size, technique, etc.) was not made to the same long term standards. I have to eat and the $20 to $100 dollar items pay the bills most of time. But for these items the standards are different. I try to ensure any item in this range has my business card enclosed, but beyond that it is up to the person buying it to get in touch with me if they think they have a problem. If they can not find me because I changed my company name I guess in rare cases it could be a problem, but for a less expensive item I don't think it is worth the effort. They would probably contact the store where they bought it anyway. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 16:39:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:09:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: What's in a Name? Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:03:52 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.7352.0> Precedence: bulk I agree, it is absolutely critical for past clients to be able to get hold of you. There are only a few cases where I think changing my company name will cause a problem. In ALL cases where I have done the actual installation of a piece, I keep the client name, address and phone number on record along with any other important information. If in the course of doing the work I found the client had a son and daughter named John and Mindi or they loved cats, that goes on the record too. You can be damn sure I will be sending each of these people a card letting them know of the change in name. And if it was an important installation or the person is a potential future important client (or even if I just plain liked the person), you can be damn sure I will be personalizing their card with a question about how John and Mindi are doing or whether they have any new cats or whatever. Just good business practice from my point of view. The extra time spent is worth more than hundreds, or even thousands of dollars worth of advertising. Even for stand alone pieces purchased without installation I try to get the person's name, address and what they purchased for anything over about $500.00. I have had a couple cases where I found a particular technique I was using was causing problems down the road. This is my side of a guarantee. If ever I find an unusual amount of a particular technique failing I will go out of my way to contact people who bought pieces with that technique and offer them a free repair. The huge majority of people are thrilled that I will stand behind my work to this extent. They are the ones who will be back. I can not buy that kind of advertising anywhere for any price. -----Original Message----- From: Carol Swann To: glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 4:52 PM Subject: Re: What's in a Name? >I think it is ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL to pick one name and stick to it. It's a >matter of product recognition...a marketing thing. Could you imagine trying >to buy pepsi one week, liking it and then going back for more the next week >only to find that it's now called frogsi. Get used to that name, go back to >buy more 6 months later, and find out it's been changed to dogsie. Would >you be confused? Why would someone wanting your glasswork be any less confused? >Yes, I know the hypothetical names stink, but I'm not feeling particularly >creative at the moment. > >Now with art glass we are in a business where people may only need our >services once every 5 years or so. What if they met you as pepsi, and look >for you 5 years later...how will they know that frogsie is the same art >glass company, especially when they have a card that says PEpsi. Let's say >you've moved in that 5 year period (most people do move on average every 5 >years)...since your card isn't valid and they go to the yellow pages to find >a glass artist, how will they know that frogsie (who's listed) is >you...pepsi (who isn't)? Answer...they won't know, and you'll probably lose >a sale. > >Since some people seem to prefer artist name recognition, I make sure both >company name and personal name appear on everything. Personally, I would >prefer to be known by my studio name since I have plans for growing my business. > >For you, I think changing from a name that no one can remember or that had >negative connotations was a good plan. I also like that Holtenwood appears >in both your businesses' names...gives continuity...shows that one is >related to (a division of) the other, or so folk might tend to think. Gives >an impression of substance and size. Very subtle psychology, but then >that's what marketing is. > >I think that you might have to do some education around what architectural >detailing is. When I first saw that name I thought you were a draftsman >providing plans. I do understand that you're looking for a catchall sort of >name since what you do is quite ecclectic. Perhaps you can educate and >prevent misunderstandings on your card, brochure and other promotional >literature by listing the types of things you do in small >letters...woodworking, stained glass, tilework. > >I can empathize around how challenging this is to choose a name that's all >encompassing and has some meaning to it. The "and Creative" in my name >refers to workshop facilitation (creativity, colour energies, etc.), one on >one creativity coaching, designing and preparing "the look" of manuscripts >for publication, a little interior design work, etc. I add etc because who >knows what'll be along next. People seem to relate well to this concept no >matter in what capacity they are relating to me. > >It's a nice bonus that the Holtenwood "made up word" had some symbolism >appropriate to your living place and the woodwork you do. > >C. > > > > > >Carol Swann >Synergy Glass & Creative >http://www.igga.org/synergy >seaspray@island.net > >check out the latest info on Elisabeth's trip at: >http://come.to/The_E-Tour > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 16:55:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:53:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: wauknet.com!sreckner From: sreckner@wauknet.com (Steve Reckner) To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: got almost all the pieces cut out!!! Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 17:50:04 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.11504.0> Precedence: bulk >L Nelson wrote: >> >> Hi, do you cut out pattern pcs. and glue them on glass and then cut I have >> not tried this yet I have a really hard time getting my pcs. to fit together >> usually there are big gaps..thanks laura We read someplace recently that a glue stick works well. So... I bought a glue stick to try on our next project. We'll let you know how it works. Or how it doesn't work, as the case may be. Steve and Susan Reckner ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 17:27:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:28:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Patrick O'Tutu Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:16:31 +0000 Message-ID: <199902270028.AAA30066@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Love it Soraya, ... love it!!! Patrick O'Tutu's e-mail addy is pkelly@n-link.com Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK - who both have just tucked up our lovely Bungi Barefoot Daniel German into bed, after a lovely afternoon. He is really cute, ladies!! Just as he comes across in his e-mails. Wow, what HE doesn't know about photography, isn't worth knowing.... English breakfast tomorrow morning (with mushrooms!!!!) ....and....greasy but crisp grilled bacon!!! ;-> Soraya wrote: > Well, I got the whole bio-thing done, so all of you may now know more about > me that you really want to....but now I can't find Patrick O'Tutu's email > addy. > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 17:42:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:40:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Re: got almost all the pieces cut out!!! Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 19:37:43 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb27.03743.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/26/99 3:19:18 PM, glshorse@ior.com wrote: >a spray adhesive.... intended for (I kid >you not) giving peoples butts some grip in the saddle Just don't use too much....... 'cause if do and your horse gets spooked and throws you, you could end up on the ground with your britches looking like Toby got hold of 'em! Sparks, who never learned to drive one o' them cock-eyed critters....... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 17:57:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:17:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Steve" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Help with dissassembling a leaded panel. Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:13:09 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.8139.0> Precedence: bulk >>Any tips on taking apart an old panel are greatly welcomed. TIA Steve<< I hope this turns out to be a long productive thread. I sure have had my problems with old panels where the putty/cement/whatever did not want to let go. Soaking the panel in water for two or three days is often all that is needed. I know someone that has a large shallow tray to do this in. I just use towels SOAKED with water. Have tried linseed oil but not sure it works. Have tried many other solvents and found none that I felt really did the job. CLR cleaner seems to help at times. Sometimes the putty wins and and I end up doing a lot of extra repair work. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass, have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 18:00:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:42:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: Witchdoc3@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: foil not sticking was: Part 2-Grind/NoGrind Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 19:40:49 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb27.04049.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 2/26/99 5:18:36 PM, seaspray@mail.island.net wrote: >I rarely use [black back foil] ... I've consistently found that it doesn't stick as >well for me as the silver back (most used) or copper back (occasionally >used). I've only used silver back a couple of times. Maybe it was old stuff, but it didn't stick very well. Never had a problem with copper or black back (Venture brand) not sticking -- but the black sticky stuff sure does gum up a pair of scissors quickly! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 18:39:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 17:32:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: warner-criv.com!charles From: "Charles Warner" To: "Steve Reckner" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: got almost all the pieces cut out!!! Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 20:22:47 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.152247.0> Precedence: bulk Assuming you have control of the cutter; if you are using the "English" method to cut you might be looking at the pattern from an angle. If using paper patterns perhaps your pattern pieces are made from too thick a material or you are not holding the cutter perpendicular left-to-right. Charles Warner Warner-Crivellaro http://www.warner-criv.com/ >>> Hi, do you cut out pattern pcs. and glue them on glass and then >>> cut I have not tried this yet I have a really hard time getting my >>> pcs. to fit together usually there are big gaps..thanks laura > >We read someplace recently that a glue stick works well. So... I bought a >glue stick to try on our next project. We'll let you know how it works. Or >how it doesn't work, as the case may be. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 20:19:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 17:43:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Leadlines From: Leadlines@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: (no subject) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 20:41:03 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb27.1413.0> Precedence: bulk Hello group, Had a client with a lamp repair today and she was telling me about two stained glass shades she has with very sketchy backgrounds. The story on the lamps is.............. they were originally in a restaurant at Tiffany's in New York City. UH HUH............ I know what you are thinking. Anyway, both shades have a brass plate marked SKYLITE soldered on the inside. Of course, my client thinks they are Tiffany's, I have not seen them yet. Has anyone ever heard of the SKYLITE stamp? Thanks in advance. LUANNE ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 20:27:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 20:03:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: infinet.com!glasscat From: Carolyn Noel To: "Christie A. Wood" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Part 2-Grind/NoGrind Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 23:01:38 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.18138.0> References: <<1999Feb26.121848.0>> Organization: The Stained Glass Place Precedence: bulk If there's a really heavy ripple, I'd bevel the edge a bit on the grinder. Makes it alot easier to foil. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 21:58:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 21:34:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Fwd: Spectrum Waterglass rumors Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:40:25 +0000 Message-ID: <199902270533.AAA13293@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: matthews@spectrumglass.com Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:19:05 -0800 To: artglass@spectrumglass.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Spectrum Waterglass rumors Cc: "Albert Lewis" Dear Steve Richard: I want to give you a decent answer but will ask you to forgive me if I seem rushed. I'm headed out of town for a week and trying to get 99 things done before departing. There is a company in China manufacturing 4 clear textures. There is no association with Spectrum other than the fact that Spectrum has aggreed to distribute their products. We are doing so under the moniker "Express" clear textures. These glasses are not similar in composition to Spectrum and thus not compatible in terms of expansion. The imports include only the four clear textures we advertised, nothing else. Waterglassr is not being manufactured offshore. One of the imported products is called "Venice." It is somewhat similar to Waterglass, but on comparison the differences are evident. Waterglass, clear and 25 or so colors, is made only by Spectrum and only in Woodinville. The differences between what we call "T-glass" and standard glass have nothing to do with sheet size. Waterglass always has narrower sheets, due to the stretching process that creates the texture. The look of the Waterglass varies somewhat; it is not a rolled, mechanical texture, but instead a natural texture resulting from the stretching process. Thus, it does look different from time to time and color to color. We try to keep it consistent, within reason, but it is not unusual to see some variation. Steve: I hope this helps. I will forward a copy to Al lewis in hopes he will post on Bungi. Jim Matthews Spectrum Glass >>Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:33:10 +0000 >>To: artglass@spectrumglass.com >>From: Steve Richard >>Subject: Spectrum Waterglass rumors >>MIME-Version: 1.0 >>Status: >> >>You will see from the attached extracts that there are a number of >>concerns about the glass which you are supplying. For me the waterglass >>question is most important. We have been fusing with waterglass and >>getting excellent results, leading to some small production runs. >> >>I need to know whether the new glass coming from China has the same >>characteristics as the previous glass. Will it be compatible with the >>existing waterglass and with other Spectrum cathedrals and wispies? >> >>I would also like to know your response to the questions: >>1- Spectrum has started importing glass manufactured in China. Does this >>include your sheet glass? >>2- How does the Spectrum Express relate to the rest of your range of >>glass - market, compatibility, consistency of colour, cutting >>characteristics? >>3- Do the different sizes indicate a difference between regular and "T" >>glass? >>4- Is the waterglass now manufactured "offshore"? >>5- Is the new waterglass different by being thinner, tighter ripples, >>etc.? >> >> >>A note to the glass groups may be in your interest too. >> >>Thanks in anticipation of your reply. >>Steve >> >>--------------- >>enclosed comments: >>-----Gang, >> >>This is a general announcement FYI. Shakeel and I >>were doing an off-line conversation, and I thought >>everyone would be interested. Spectrum has started >>importing glass manufactured in China. And the pre- >>made lampshade kits from Dynasty are also made >>in China. Shakeel received one and was very >>disappointed in the crudeness of the foiling and >>not good glass used. >> >>Shakeel wrote: >><...Did you open up and look at the Dynasty "Mission" >>kit you sent me? It said "Made in China"....> >> >>No, I didn't open up the Dynasty kit and look at it prior to >>mailing it off to you. Thanks for the warning about them. >>Not nice business practices. I've got the Spectrum announcement >>right here in front of me. It says... >> >>"The next issue of THE SCORE (March 1st mailing) will >>include our first promotion of the Spectrum Express line of >>imported clear textures. These clear glasses, manufactured >>in China and available exclusively from Spectrum, are now >>being shipped along with standard Spectrum products to all >>stocking distributors. >> >>There are four separate clear textures in this group, including >>two that are available in both 5mm and 3mm thicknesses....." >> >>I suspect their Waterglass line is now manufactured off-shore, >>as the thicknesses are different, as is the sheet size. Makes >>me believe it's also coming from China. >> >>I agree with you. If I wanted to buy Chinese glass I would have >>purchased Chinese glass. Thanks for the warning about >>the Dynasty kits. >> >>Christie A. Wood >>----------------------- >>Spectrum does make two different sheet sizes. The 20x48 that you refer >>to >>is probably their "t" glass and is lower in price than their standard >>stock >>size. This glass is usually the first run or last run. If you examine >>the >>two different sheets the "t" appears to be flawed. The waves are >>actually >>stringy looking. >>Hope this helps. >>Molly >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Bob E Duchesneau >>To: Bungi ; Christie A. Wood >>Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 2:00 PM >>Subject: Re: Spectrum & Dynasty using Chinese imports >> >> >>>>>I suspect their Waterglass line is now manufactured off-shore, >>>as the thicknesses are different, as is the sheet size. Makes >>>me believe it's also coming from China.<< >>> >>>I don't think so but I have been known to be wrong. Spectrum clear >>>water glass (S100W) comes in sheets that are 20" X 48"s. They also >>>make a clear cathedral ripple (S100R) that is a tighter pattern than >>>waterglass and comes in sheets that are 24" X 48"s. When purchased in >>>small sheets it is easy to confuse the two different glasses. Bob >>> >>>Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 >>--------------- >>Message text written by "Bob E Duchesneau" >>>I don't think so but I have been known to be wrong. Spectrum clear >>water glass (S100W) comes in sheets that are 20" X 48"s. They also >>make a clear cathedral ripple (S100R) that is a tighter pattern than >>waterglass and comes in sheets that are 24" X 48"s. When purchased in >>small sheets it is easy to confuse the two different glasses.< >> >>Naw...I usually purchase the colored waterglass sheets in the large >>sheets. I know the difference between waterglass and their small >>ripple. The look of the Spectrum waterglass has changed significantly >>in the past year. The sheets are now thinner, and the waves are >>thinner. Some folk like the new waterglass look. I like the thicker >>original look. >> >>Christie A. Wood >>-- >>Steve Richard >>Verrier Art Glass Ltd >>s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk >> > >Sara Peterson >Marketing Assistant >artglass@SpectrumGlass.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 22:16:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 21:35:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: goldenlad@iname.com (Steve) Subject: Re: Help with dissassembling a leaded panel. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:40:24 +0000 Message-ID: <199902270533.AAA13250@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > I'm trying to take apart and relead a panel and am having problems > taking the old lead off. The cement has formed a very hard joint > between the lead and the glass. Can cement be softened by application > of Linseed oil, (the panel is over 50 years old and I don't want to > risk breaking any of the painted glass). A long soak in warm water, Steve. Even so, you may have a job ahead of you if the putty was made with Portland cement. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 22:28:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 22:01:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Free Prizes - New Members and Lurkers Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:01:05 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.1815.0> Precedence: bulk Now that I have your attention: Every Saturday I post short biographies, that members submit to me. Nothing real formal, just chatty stuff, how you got started in glass, family, where you live, favorite project, and what ever else you want to send. It is a real hit with most members. Some of them actually, relax with curlers in their hair (not me of course), a glass of wine, fuzzy slippers, and a tattered old robe , and read them with interest. It is just a way of introducing yourself. You would be surprised how many friendships develop this way. Please send your bio to me and I'll post it. Don't make me get violent and track you down! PS I lied about the prizes, just like some of you lied about sending me your bio. (8-) PPS If any one would like copies of past bios I'll send them to you, privately. Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 22:31:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 21:41:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: "Toby" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Daniel in Toby's bed Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 23:42:19 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.174219.0> Precedence: bulk Hope you kicked that smelly canine out of the bed before Daniel got in. Ooooops sorry I got carried away, thought you were still ill. So fill us in on the activities you and Daniel will be doing. Welcome back to the land of the living. Don't sneeze on the computer.... it spreads viruses. -----Original Message----- From: Toby To: glass@bungi.com Date: Friday, February 26, 1999 7:34 PM Subject: Patrick O'Tutu > Love it Soraya, ... love it!!! > >Patrick O'Tutu's e-mail addy is >pkelly@n-link.com > > >Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK > - who both have just tucked up our lovely >Bungi Barefoot Daniel German into bed, after a lovely afternoon. >He is really cute, ladies!! Just as he comes across in his e-mails. >Wow, what HE doesn't know about photography, isn't worth knowing.... >English breakfast tomorrow morning (with mushrooms!!!!) > ....and....greasy but crisp grilled bacon!!! >;-> > >Soraya wrote: >> Well, I got the whole bio-thing done, so all of you may now know more about >> me that you really want to....but now I can't find Patrick O'Tutu's email >> addy. >> >---- >As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" >North Lights Stained Glass - homepage >http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm >---- >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Feb 26 23:08:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 22:20:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: The elusive cube Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:20:45 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.182045.0> Precedence: bulk I know this is an old thread but thought you might like to hear this. As many of you know I teach computer science in the evenings. Last week a member posted a great stained glass site with the elusive cube. In an effort to teach my beginner's class a little about the web I wrote the URL on the chalk board and without further directions I told my class to visit that site. With very little assistance most of them were successful. Finally, all the computers (about 36) were on the site with the spinning cube. The "Wows" were heard in another lab, curiosity set in and before we knew it we had two other classes looking at the monitors. Soon other computer instructors were looking over our shoulders and trying to figure out how it was accomplished. My students started beaming with pride to think that they had found something of so much interest to much more experienced "Geeks". Many of them when asked "let me use the mouse" they said "No" I'll move it for you. I was really laughing out loud. The next day the Computer Science Department was abuse with the new site and in the Instructor's Offices I noticed many of them hitting the site. Out of about 100 people I heard many of them remark about how they wanted to do Stained Glass, and they didn't realize that outside of churches SG was so beautiful. Bottom line: Attention all retailers and SG artists, beware my students have been exposed and some may even start in the art form. Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 27 01:53:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:21:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Pkelly" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: The elusive cube Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:44:06 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb26.16446.0> Precedence: bulk http://www.geocities.com/Paris/LeftBank/9940/cube.html Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass, have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 27 02:54:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 02:33:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Bob E Duchesneau Subject: Re: Help with dissassembling a leaded panel. Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 10:21:16 +0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb27.102116.0> References: <<1999Feb26.8139.0@?>> Precedence: bulk I agree with Bob about linseed oil, Steve Linseed oil is not likely to soften the existing hardened putty/cement. It will itself harden relatively quickly. Water is a better method. But you have to be sure the paint is securely fastened to the glass and will not be harmed by water. Test in an unimportant place. I have a book in the studio about conservation which I will try to remember to get out. Steve in Scotland In message <1999Feb26.8139.0@?>, Bob E Duchesneau writes >>>Any tips on taking apart an old panel are greatly welcomed. > >TIA >Steve<< > >I hope this turns out to be a long productive thread. I sure have had >my problems with old panels where the putty/cement/whatever did not >want to let go. > >Soaking the panel in water for two or three days is often all that is >needed. I know someone that has a large shallow tray to do this in. I >just use towels SOAKED with water. Have tried linseed oil but not sure >it works. Have tried many other solvents and found none that I felt >really did the job. CLR cleaner seems to help at times. > >Sometimes the putty wins and and I end up doing a lot of extra repair >work. Bob > >Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 >Think glass, have class. > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 27 07:30:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:05:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bio # 91 Judy Novak Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 09:05:28 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb27.3528.0> Precedence: bulk How wonderful it was to meet you! If you weren't so wonderfully charming, and if you hadn't put on such a grand show trying to sit gracefully in the tutu I would pass on the bio but you are and it was great fun so here goes! Oh, and I promised. My bio...... Long long ago in a land far away... No, that is another story! Essentially, I am a very old lady and have been doing art in some form or the other since I can remember. I am a Libra. Well, of course. I can't make up my mind what I want to do because it is all so wonderful and I love to learn, to work and play. I have spent the greater part of my art endeavors doing oil painting, pottery (hand built, wheel thrown and clay sculpture). I actually studied this stuff in school and college, seminars, workshops and around the raku kilns with other like minded individuals. I will forever deny that I put the chicken in the kiln! About 10 years ago a friend got involved in stained glass and shared a studio with me, I promised not to mess with her stained glass stuff!!! I tried really hard.......I did! Honest! But the glass would call to me, over and over and over. It was a nightmare, the conflict! I promised! the glass calling......strong moral values...the glass calling.... To heck with morals! I was hooked. That's the story! We moved to Temple this year, opened a (we think) nice retail glass and gift shop. Are in the process of re-establishing our small farm and studio in a tiny town called Little River. We continue to play in glass and learn. Great life-great fun. We invite all that come our way to stop and visit. We love the company of other glass folks! Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 27 07:59:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:34:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Fwd: Spectrum Waterglass rumors Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 10:30:58 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb27.53058.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks for Albert & Spectrum for clearing up the questions I raised about the Chinese glass. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 http://www.igga.org/wood/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 27 08:09:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:39:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: "Pkelly" , Subject: Re: Bio # 91 Judy Novak Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:38:11 PST Message-ID: Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "Bio # 91 Judy Novak" on Feb 27, 9:05, "Pkelly" writes:] Welcome to the group! > gift shop. Are in the process of re-establishing our small farm and > studio in a tiny town called Little River. We continue to play in glass > and learn. Great life-great fun. > We invite all that come our way to stop and visit. We love the company > of other glass folks! Did you mean Little River, CA? If so we are fairly close to eachother. I stayed in Mendocino for weekend. I loved the area,..I love the ocean! Enjoy! -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 27 08:18:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:42:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Leslye2 From: Leslye2@aol.com To: flajwa@mindspring.com, Swazallen@juno.com, ball@magicnet.net, Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Change of E-Mail Addresses Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 10:37:36 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb27.153736.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all, I think Paul has got the new account set up so I can now officially change our e-mail addresses. They are: Paul--pauldnelson@earthlink.com Leslye--leslye2@earthlink.com Please change your address books. We went to see Cirque du Soelei last night for my birthday and it is absolutely AWESOME. It is indescribable. For those of you in FL I strongly recommend you go to Downtown Disney to see it. For you others, if it ever comes to your town, SEE IT !!! Leslye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 27 08:28:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:20:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bio # 92 Soraya Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 09:16:18 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb27.31618.0> Precedence: bulk Editor's Note: Slightly edited to protect the innocent.......pk. Edited a= ge and Date of Birth because I have holes in my underwear older than her. So here it is=85my bio=85.this is an updated and edited version of the on= e I have on my web site=85.I apologize for the length=85 Let=92s see=85I am a __ years old (3 August,19_ _) and live in Port C= linton, Ohio, USA on the shores of Lake Erie in the Island area. I grew up about = 7 miles from where I now live, on Catawba Island. I lived in Bremerhaven Germany for two and a half years while I worked at an American Military N= CO club. I am married and together we have a delightful and/or obnoxious, (depending on her mood) too smart, too cute for her own good, four year o= ld pre-schooler named Veronika, but better known as Rocky. We also share our home with two lovable rats (yes, rats!) named Devon and Cornwall. If yo= u are just dying of curiosity...you can find a scapebook of pictures at http://www.cros.net/soraya/scrapebook.htm . (I made all of my daughters Halloween costumes.) Professionally, I used to be a bartender (for a long time)...but am currently in the midst of changing careers to something more conducive to= a normal life! (Those of you who have worked nights can understand!) I am looking for something in the computer field=85and someone who will hire m= e with a lot of practical knowledge=85.just no formal education on the subj= ect! In my spare-time (such as it is) I'm a computer geek, (I have built m= y last computer as well as one for my mother-in-law and have crafted severa= l web-sites, both personally and professionally). I am a Cleveland Indians Baseball fan=85(my daughter gets part of her nickname from Rocky Colivato..also Clark Gable's first wife and Rocky Balboa!). I'll read alm= ost anything printed and listen to many types of music. I joke that my home looks like a computer, book, and toy store exploded! I try to go to Ceda= r Point ( a roller-coaster amusement park) as often as possible in the summ= er time. I have just started to doing stained glass=85though I am involved in = a few other fine arts and crafts (beadwork, textiles, sculpting, etc etc) as we= ll as computer graphics. Stained Glass has always been on my list of things = to learn before I die=85though I don=92t have any one reason why, I just lov= e the play of light and texture as well as the whole design concept behind it. = (I also love the =91technical skills=92 combined with =91artistic skills=92 = that it takes to work in this medium=85it is not all one or the other.) I have be= en doing what I call "Stained Graphics" for my web site for ages=85..so when= some =91down time=92 between employment happened this winter=85I decided now w= as the time to learn. I was fortunate to have a great shop near-by with a beginn= ers class just starting up. The owner, and instructor, Ben, has been patient = and incredibly helpful during this learning phase=85I really enjoy his "jump-= on in-and-do-it / hands-on-approach" to teaching. So far I have decided I li= ke leaded panels more that copper foil and the concrete mosaics are fun. (T= oo easy though, as they eliminate the hardest part of stained glass for me =85.soldering!!) I have several friends breathlessly waiting to see if= I develop any sort of talent in stained glass due to the fact they have an on-line store they would like to add hard to find appropriate themed piec= es to their catalog. (We=92ll see about this!! LOL) In case you are wondering (and everyone wonders...lol)I received my n= ame Soraya in a long and drawn out piece of family history. Though the name itself is Arabic, I am not however. (My four grandparents were Polish, Belgian, Scottish and Irish) It seems that my Polish Grandmother, (her na= me was Veronika,) looked a lot like the Empress Soraya of Iran. (To see a fe= w pictures I have on my site go to=85 http://www.cros.net/soraya/empress.ht= m ) The late Shah's second wife, who it is said he greatly loved, but had to divorced because she couldn't have children. The Empress Soraya was quite popular in France where my family was living at the time (most still do) = So it became something of a nickname for my Grandmother=85.and when my fathe= r would not allow me to be named after his mother-in-law=85my mom snuck thi= s in and I am so named after both of them, sort of..... The name Soraya itself means...The Seven Stars of the constellation known as Ursa major (aka the Big Dipper). These Seven stars are responsib= le for: The Seven Days of the Week ,The Seven Gates of the Peacock Throne, T= he Seven Wonders of The Ancient World, The Lucky Number Seven, The Seven Pillars of Wisdom, The Seven Colors of the Spectrum, The Seven Musical Notes, The Seven Ages of Man, The Seven Deadly Sins, The Seven Main Chakr= as, The Seven Seas and anything else having to do with the number Seven!! The constellation is known as The Throne Of The Goddess In Heaven, al= so controls the weather, shines brightest before the dawn, and is the diadem= of the skies. The seven stars that make up the constellation are know as The Seven Sisters. Whew...what a name to live up to! While I worked at an Applebee's a couple came in, the woman was about= 8 months pregnant. They asked about my name=85and than they actually named = their new daughter Soraya!! I also have 2 cats, a basset hound, and a Nubian go= at named after me. I have enjoyed this list both for its glass advise, humour and genera= l friendly atmosphere (a pleasant change from many net groups!!) I have already learned so much, found such interesting web sites, I am sure you = all will be there with relevant answers and I hope that as my glass experienc= e grows I will be able to take a more active part on the discussions. Take Care, Soraya ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Soraya may reached at... soraya@cros.net ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Soraya's Witches' Thicket at.... http://www.cros.net/soraya ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ "Do not attempt to do a thing unless you are sure of yourself; but do not relinquish it simply because someone else is not sure of you." -Stewart E. White Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 27 08:29:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 08:06:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Today's Bios Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 09:34:52 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb27.33452.0> Precedence: bulk Thank to Judy and Soraya my gnomon is safe for another week. Soraya: I told you her we would be interested in the origins of her name. Thanks Soraya Judy: Stopped by Judy's new shop .... how beautiful. We started to discuss her bio and got into a heated argument and the next thing you know we were punching and jabbing. The shop was a shambles, my TuTu had cutting oil , and frit all over it, we rolled around for what seemed like hours ...... Finally when we were both exhausted .... she let me up, she agreed to send me her bio. It wasn't a pretty sight. So that's how I got her bio .... yeah, yeah, that's my story. So here I am sitting and soldering my TuTu... ouch. Maybe I should take it off first... Ouch (shades of the Brit Chick)... ouch. Morale to the story above ..... Don't make me get violent and come looking for you to send me your bio. A Stained Glass TuTu is a terrible thing to waste. Send me your bio Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 27 09:30:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 08:55:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Glue stick... Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 11:53:04 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb27.6534.0> Precedence: bulk Hi....I use a glue stick on my glass all the time...it works great and if you get the pinkish purple kind that dries clear, you can see the color reappear when dipped in ammonia based clear glass cleaner.This makes it easy to see and no glue is left on the glass.Ross Glue Stick is one brand name. The glass cleaner came from Lowes and comes in gallon containers. Abbie Mason ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 27 10:00:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 09:22:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: email.msn.com!bird_cage From: "Doug Parrott" To: "bungi group" Subject: unsubscribe Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 09:23:09 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb27.1239.0> Precedence: bulk things are pretty hectic at my home right now so I need to take a respite from bungi for awhile. Please unsubscribe. I hope to be back in May Thanks, Cheryl Parrott ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 27 12:59:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:24:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: The elusive cube Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:28:20 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb27.42820.0> References: <<1999Feb26.16446.0>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk Thank you Bob. But I can't get it to load pass image 5. Anyone else having this problem? Shirley B Bob E Duchesneau wrote: > > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/LeftBank/9940/cube.html > > Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 > Think glass, have class. > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- x>"3 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 27 13:29:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 13:14:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: "Glass List" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: What's in a Name? Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:17:29 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb27.41729.0> Precedence: bulk Sorry to anyone who had problems following the last set of my messages in this thread. I sent them all in sequential order, but more or less at the same time. When they came back from the list server they were all mixed around. Even I was a bit confused. I will know in the future to space sequential messages further apart if I really want them to be read sequentially. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 27 13:48:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 13:15:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: "Glass List" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Spectrum & Dynasty using Chinese imports Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 10:50:12 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb27.25012.0> Precedence: bulk I am pretty sure they are still producing their water glass. I visited their factory in Woodinville Washington in October and it sure as heck looked like they were still producing water glass! -----Original Message----- From: Bob E Duchesneau To: Bungi ; Christie A. Wood Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 12:56 PM Subject: Re: Spectrum & Dynasty using Chinese imports >>>I suspect their Waterglass line is now manufactured off-shore, >as the thicknesses are different, as is the sheet size. Makes >me believe it's also coming from China.<< > >I don't think so but I have been known to be wrong. Spectrum clear >water glass (S100W) comes in sheets that are 20" X 48"s. They also >make a clear cathedral ripple (S100R) that is a tighter pattern than >waterglass and comes in sheets that are 24" X 48"s. When purchased in >small sheets it is easy to confuse the two different glasses. Bob > >Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 >Think glass, have class. > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 27 13:59:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 13:14:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: "Glass List" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Part 2-Grind/NoGrind (long) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 11:53:41 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb27.35341.0> Precedence: bulk An did you know you could use a somewhat different version of relief lines to cut a fully enclosed circle out from inside a sheet of glass? I have had more glass teachers say that cutting a circle out from a sheet of glass while leaving the glass outside the circle whole and uncut is impossible. Not true! (And you do not need fancy grinders or hole saws either). 1. Score the circle, either free hand or with a compass or elliptical arm cutter. The two ends of the score must meet perfectly. 2. Score a few to several relief lines starting tangential to the circle and spiraling inward toward the center. Relief lines should spiral both ways such that when running the scores they come right up to the circle from both directions and create an elliptical piece which can drop out. 3. Now comes the weird part from a normal glass working point of view. Score a whole bunch of criss-crossing score lines in the center of the circle. The area covered by these criss-crossed score lines needs to be big enough for your grozing pliers to fit into the hole, but small enough so any breaks extending out from them will still strike the relief lines at a shallow enough angle to run the relief scores. Use an old cutter for this because scoring over the top of other score lines is really hard on a cutter. We don't want you to ruin your expensive Toyo cutting wheel. 4. Flip the glass over. The pressure for the next step should be from the back side. Also your glass must be resting absolutely flat on a clean flat work surface. Any pressure points under the sheet of glass are going to fracture the whole thing. 5. Take either an old style brass striking ball like comes on the end of some older style glass cutters or the ball side of a ball-peen hammer. Smash it into the center of the glass then rock it back and forth hard crushing out all those little chunks of glass between the criss-crossed score lines. Do not be gentle here. The more fracture lines you have running out to the spiral relief lines the easier the rest of the job will be. I am very serious here - you are truly smashing out the area with the crossing score lines. (Also, you MUST use eye protection here - the little chunks of glass fly out all over the place). 6. Now pressure run or tap all of the spiral relief lines out to where they meet the circle at a tangent and as much as possible around the circle back to another relief line. Use your grozing pliers to pull out all the tangential ellipses and any remaining cords inside the circle. I would suggest trying this on cheap flat glass first. It does take some practice to get the feel of it. Also the more textured the glass is the more difficult it becomes. Textured glass will need a work surface which supports the glass and spreads the pressure points as evenly as possible. -----Original Message----- From: Christie A. Wood To: Bungi Date: Thursday, February 25, 1999 10:39 AM Subject: Re: Part 2-Grind/NoGrind (long) >Message text written by INTERNET:dodgestudio@juno.com >>The tangent lines you refer to, are they two separate score lines used >to create one curve or are they where two distinct and different curves >meet?< > >They are 2 separate score lines used to create one curve. >That's the way I was taught. Thank you ever so much for >describing the alternate method whereby you score the >entire curve, then go back and add in releaf scores. I shall >try that method. This bungi group is great, n'est pas? > >Christie A. Wood >Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B, >P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 >http://www.igga.org/wood/ >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 27 14:31:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 13:49:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Shirley Balloch" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: The elusive cube Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 13:40:11 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb27.54011.0> Precedence: bulk >>Thank you Bob. But I can't get it to load pass image 5. Anyone else having this problem? Shirley B Bob E Duchesneau wrote: > > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/LeftBank/9940/cube.html > << I just clicked on the addy given above and it loaded fine. Takes a while to get all six images downloaded. I wonder if your file recieve has a byte limit that is being exceeded? Others have had problems downloading the cube that I think may be time related. If I ever get off my butt and get a site up I might very well use the cube. Think it is great for showing work. Only drawback seems to be the amount of download it requires. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass, have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 27 14:49:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 14:14:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: Glenna Rand Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Bio # 91 Judy Novak Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 17:01:38 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb27.9138.0> References: <> Organization: SBWSA Precedence: bulk There's a Little River - a small town in SC - right down the road apiece from me too, a few miles in from the Atlantic Ocean. Small world. Carol T Glenna Rand wrote: > [In the message entitled "Bio # 91 Judy Novak" on Feb 27, 9:05, "Pkelly" writes:] > > Welcome to the group! > > > gift shop. Are in the process of re-establishing our small farm and > > studio in a tiny town called Little River. We continue to play in glass > > and learn. Great life-great fun. > > We invite all that come our way to stop and visit. We love the company > > of other glass folks! > > Did you mean Little River, CA? > If so we are fairly close to eachother. I stayed in Mendocino for > weekend. I loved the area,..I love the ocean! > > Enjoy! > > -- > Glenna Rand > gjr@bungi.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 27 15:00:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 14:27:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aisl.bc.ca!atwoods From: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" To: "Glass List" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Help with dissassembling a leaded panel. Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 14:16:24 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb27.61624.0> Precedence: bulk Just as a thought (I have not actually tried it): i wonder if Citrisol (liquid) or Citristrip (gel) would work for those cases where soaking in water did not. Safer than most other solvants and very broad spectrum in what it will soften. -----Original Message----- From: Bob E Duchesneau To: Bungi ; Steve Date: Friday, February 26, 1999 7:02 PM Subject: Re: Help with dissassembling a leaded panel. >>>Any tips on taking apart an old panel are greatly welcomed. > >TIA >Steve<< > >I hope this turns out to be a long productive thread. I sure have had >my problems with old panels where the putty/cement/whatever did not >want to let go. > >Soaking the panel in water for two or three days is often all that is >needed. I know someone that has a large shallow tray to do this in. I >just use towels SOAKED with water. Have tried linseed oil but not sure >it works. Have tried many other solvents and found none that I felt >really did the job. CLR cleaner seems to help at times. > >Sometimes the putty wins and and I end up doing a lot of extra repair >work. Bob > >Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 >Think glass, have class. > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 27 16:29:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 16:13:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!ABBIE23875 From: "Evelyn C Mason" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Save it all.... Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 19:13:20 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb27.141320.0> Precedence: bulk Toby, don't forget to save the bacon grease! Glad yall had a grand ole' time....Abbie Mason ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 27 23:16:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:53:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cros.net!soraya From: "Soraya" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Today's Bios Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:51:49 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb27.195149.0> Precedence: bulk >>>Soraya, I told you her we would be interested in the origins of her name. But I bet you didn't think it would be that long of a story!! Soraya ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 27 23:16:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:33:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet From: "Karen K." To: "Pat Kelly" , Subject: Re: Daniel in Toby's bed Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:31:27 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb27.193127.0> Precedence: bulk Patrick, Just wondering if you would be so bold if that 4-legged canine was on the same continent as you, personally I doubt it. lol Karen >Hope you kicked that smelly canine out of the bed before Daniel got in. >Ooooops sorry I got carried away, thought you were still ill. So fill us in >on the activities you and Daniel will be doing. > >Welcome back to the land of the living. Don't sneeze on the computer.... it >spreads viruses. > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Toby >To: glass@bungi.com >Date: Friday, February 26, 1999 7:34 PM >Subject: Patrick O'Tutu > > >> Love it Soraya, ... love it!!! >> >>Patrick O'Tutu's e-mail addy is >>pkelly@n-link.com >> >> >>Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK >> - who both have just tucked up our lovely >>Bungi Barefoot Daniel German into bed, after a lovely afternoon. >>He is really cute, ladies!! Just as he comes across in his e-mails. >>Wow, what HE doesn't know about photography, isn't worth knowing.... >>English breakfast tomorrow morning (with mushrooms!!!!) >> ....and....greasy but crisp grilled bacon!!! >>;-> >> >>Soraya wrote: >>> Well, I got the whole bio-thing done, so all of you may now know more >about >>> me that you really want to....but now I can't find Patrick O'Tutu's email >>> addy. >>> >>---- >>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" >>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage >>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm >>---- >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 27 23:30:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 22:40:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pkelly" To: "Karen K." , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Daniel in Toby's bed Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:17:14 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb27.181714.0> Precedence: bulk I might be crazy ...... but I ain't dumb.....LOL -----Original Message----- From: Karen K. To: Pat Kelly ; glass@bungi.com Date: Saturday, February 27, 1999 11:31 PM Subject: Re: Daniel in Toby's bed > >Patrick, >Just wondering if you would be so bold if that 4-legged canine was on the >same continent as you, personally I doubt it. lol > >Karen > > >>Hope you kicked that smelly canine out of the bed before Daniel got in. >>Ooooops sorry I got carried away, thought you were still ill. So fill us >in >>on the activities you and Daniel will be doing. >> >>Welcome back to the land of the living. Don't sneeze on the computer.... >it >>spreads viruses. >> >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Toby >>To: glass@bungi.com >>Date: Friday, February 26, 1999 7:34 PM >>Subject: Patrick O'Tutu >> >> >>> Love it Soraya, ... love it!!! >>> >>>Patrick O'Tutu's e-mail addy is >>>pkelly@n-link.com >>> >>> >>>Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK >>> - who both have just tucked up our lovely >>>Bungi Barefoot Daniel German into bed, after a lovely afternoon. >>>He is really cute, ladies!! Just as he comes across in his e-mails. >>>Wow, what HE doesn't know about photography, isn't worth knowing.... >>>English breakfast tomorrow morning (with mushrooms!!!!) >>> ....and....greasy but crisp grilled bacon!!! >>>;-> >>> >>>Soraya wrote: >>>> Well, I got the whole bio-thing done, so all of you may now know more >>about >>>> me that you really want to....but now I can't find Patrick O'Tutu's >email >>>> addy. >>>> >>>---- >>>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" >>>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage >>>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm >>>---- >>>---- >>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >>> >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Feb 27 23:46:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 23:34:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4 From: Suzanne To: "Karen K." Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Peace to Toby! was Re: Daniel in Toby's bed Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 01:37:53 -0600 Message-ID: <1999Feb27.193753.0> References: <<1999Feb27.193127.0>> Precedence: bulk In fact, Patrick, you might want to be thinking of sending home a peace offering with Elisabeth, for Toby, after E's USA tour. Maybe some flavored nylabone? I hear pigs ears arent so good for them after all. And considering what is best for Toby, nyla bone would probably be a lot better for him than a glass tutu....even if there is a meaty Irish leg underneath (not to even mention gnomen) <- notice the plural? ;o) Tulsa Suzanne Karen K. wrote: > > Patrick, > Just wondering if you would be so bold if that 4-legged canine was on the > same continent as you, personally I doubt it. lol > > Karen > > >Hope you kicked that smelly canine out of the bed before Daniel got in. > >Ooooops sorry I got carried away, thought you were still ill. So fill us > in > >on the activities you and Daniel will be doing. > > > >Welcome back to the land of the living. Don't sneeze on the computer.... > it > >spreads viruses. > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Toby > >To: glass@bungi.com > >Date: Friday, February 26, 1999 7:34 PM > >Subject: Patrick O'Tutu > > > > > >> Love it Soraya, ... love it!!! > >> > >>Patrick O'Tutu's e-mail addy is > >>pkelly@n-link.com > >> > >> > >>Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK > >> - who both have just tucked up our lovely > >>Bungi Barefoot Daniel German into bed, after a lovely afternoon. > >>He is really cute, ladies!! Just as he comes across in his e-mails. > >>Wow, what HE doesn't know about photography, isn't worth knowing.... > >>English breakfast tomorrow morning (with mushrooms!!!!) > >> ....and....greasy but crisp grilled bacon!!! > >>;-> > >> > >>Soraya wrote: > >>> Well, I got the whole bio-thing done, so all of you may now know more > >about > >>> me that you really want to....but now I can't find Patrick O'Tutu's > email > >>> addy. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 28 00:46:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:30:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep From: "Brian Shepherd" To: "Tim & Adriana Atwood" , Subject: Re: Part 2-Grind/NoGrind (long) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:21:14 -0000 Message-ID: <1999Feb28.82114.0> Precedence: bulk Hello Years ago when the gas industry in UK was converting to natural gas every appliance in the country had to be converted. At the same time vents had to be fitted in countless windows - wherever there was an appliance! They were circular and 5 or 6 inches diameter. I saw on several occasions gas engineers cut these circles with the glass in situ. They scored a circle - crossed a number of times through the middle and simple tapped the centre! I guess nobody told them it was impossible! I suppose if they had been highly trained and skilled glass workers like us they wouldn't have even tried it. Best regards BtB >An did you know you could use a somewhat different version of relief lines >to cut a fully enclosed circle out from inside a sheet of glass? I have had >more glass teachers say that cutting a circle out from a sheet of glass >while leaving the glass outside the circle whole and uncut is impossible. >Not true! (And you do not need fancy grinders or hole saws either). > >1. Score the circle, either free hand or with a compass or elliptical arm >cutter. The two ends of the score must meet perfectly. > >2. Score a few to several relief lines starting tangential to the circle and >spiraling inward toward the center. Relief lines should spiral both ways >such that when running the scores they come right up to the circle from both >directions and create an elliptical piece which can drop out. > >3. Now comes the weird part from a normal glass working point of view. >Score a whole bunch of criss-crossing score lines in the center of the >circle. The area covered by these criss-crossed score lines needs to be big >enough for your grozing pliers to fit into the hole, but small enough so any >breaks extending out from them will still strike the relief lines at a >shallow enough angle to run the relief scores. Use an old cutter for this >because scoring over the top of other score lines is really hard on a >cutter. We don't want you to ruin your expensive Toyo cutting wheel. > >4. Flip the glass over. The pressure for the next step should be from the >back side. Also your glass must be resting absolutely flat on a clean flat >work surface. Any pressure points under the sheet of glass are going to >fracture the whole thing. > >5. Take either an old style brass striking ball like comes on the end of >some older style glass cutters or the ball side of a ball-peen hammer. >Smash it into the center of the glass then rock it back and forth hard >crushing out all those little chunks of glass between the criss-crossed >score lines. Do not be gentle here. The more fracture lines you have >running out to the spiral relief lines the easier the rest of the job will >be. I am very serious here - you are truly smashing out the area with the >crossing score lines. (Also, you MUST use eye protection here - the little >chunks of glass fly out all over the place). > >6. Now pressure run or tap all of the spiral relief lines out to where they >meet the circle at a tangent and as much as possible around the circle back >to another relief line. Use your grozing pliers to pull out all the >tangential ellipses and any remaining cords inside the circle. > >I would suggest trying this on cheap flat glass first. It does take some >practice to get the feel of it. Also the more textured the glass is the >more difficult it becomes. Textured glass will need a work surface which >supports the glass and spreads the pressure points as evenly as possible. > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 28 07:44:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:18:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: cyf-kr.edu.pl!zekarasz From: Pawel Karaszkiewicz To: Bungi , Steve Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: ODP: Help with dissassembling a leaded panel. Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:16:08 +-100 Message-ID: <1999Feb28.15168.0> Precedence: bulk >>Any tips on taking apart an old panel are greatly welcomed. Steve<< Try to heat putty very gently using a hair dryer or (CAREFULLY) hot air = blower for paint removal. I use one with temerature control It usually = softens putty enough to dismantle the panel. Work step by step, from the = lead side not glass and do not overheat the glass since it can crack. = Prolonged soaking in water can be dangerous for glass paint.=20 Paint removers (solvent based) can be helpful in cleaning putty residues = after dismantling - it is safer to use them then knives, sclapels and = steel brushes still popular in some workshops. Pawel =20 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 28 09:03:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:30:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: ODP: Help with dissassembling a leaded panel. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:37:11 +0000 Message-ID: <199902281629.LAA00909@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk > Prolonged soaking in water can be dangerous for glass paint That's why it's called the "universal solvent." Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 28 11:07:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:47:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!Lierath From: "B.Lierath" To: List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Thank you Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:45:48 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb28.84548.0> Precedence: bulk I was delighted to receive so many mails. May I take this opportunity to say thank you to all the new (mail) friends. Normally I prefer sending individual mails, but due to this amount, I divert to the list. As my personal rule, I answer every mail or question individually unless it was received by the list or I feel that the list will have a benefit o= f it. Needless to say, that I will be more on the question side. Another thing I have to clarify: Some of the group got the impression that glass is our source of income. This is not the case. You have to be well known as an artist or be a wholesaler to live on that income without restriction. I guess this impression was introduced with my limited English. Ok... here is the real world. My wife has the glass business and I work in the engineering dept. of an airline. Otherwise we would not be able to pay for the house, the cars, support our children and what else do I know. However may wife has proofed, that if you want to make some money with glass, it can be done. Looking back to almost 16 years of amateur experience, she decided to be a pro 4 years ago. And she is proud to see a constant increase in revenue each year. If it continues as it is right now, I will= "retire" in four years to be her assistant. Ok...to keep things alive, here is the first question for the group: Does anyone knows about a publication of the glass artist Brian Blanthorn= ? Be it a book or in the internet. Burkhard - Berlin, Germany ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 28 12:38:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:07:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!gcanvas From: "James C. Kelly" To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Wood frames Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:26:34 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb28.92634.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all, I'm jumping out of lurker mode for some more help. Subject being wood framing of panels. I have available to me from local sources pine, poplar and oak framing with channels as = usually designed for stained glass. 1. Specific question - I have been asked to wood frame a 2 x 2 foot panel currently framed in zinc. Using = 1 3/8 framing size, can I use any of the = above wood materials for this job. 2. Non-specific - what are the = wise limitations of pine and poplar as framing materials for stained glass if a panel is framed in lead and = similarly if a panel is framed in zinc. Thanks in advance for any help. Jim Jim Kelly Virginia Beach VA gcanvas@compuserve.com Sunday, February 28, 1999 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 28 13:07:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:37:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Breathing Safe & Cle Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:41:13 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb28.44113.0> References: <<199902281249_MC2-6C27-7AF@compuserve.com>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk Monona Rossol wrote: > > Regarding the ACTS data sheet Carol Swann wrote: > > > Maybe this could be made available electronically on bungi...one post to the > > whole group at no charge for postage. Or maybe Albert could put it up on > > the igga site or something, again cost free to your group. What say you, > > Monona? Please use a good descriptive subject line so it can be easily > > found in people's email files. > > Carol Swann > > Synergy Glass & Creative > > http://www.igga.org/synergy > > seaspray@island.net > > > > I have a system. I have probably about 1000 pages of data sheets on various > subjects in the computer. I use them in response to FAQs and other > inquiries. Each time I print one out and send it, I look it over first. If > I see something I want to change or realize there is some new data that > should be incorporated, I do it at that point. Then I change the "revision > date" that is on the first page of each data sheet. > > This is a frequent occurrence because we get an average of 35 inquiries per > day. > > I will not put my things on the internet because I can't update all this > stuff and versions I no longer want distributed will be floating about--for > years possibly. > > In addition, I have charts, footnotes, different type fonts for emphasis, and > other graphics that do not translate well into everyone's e-mail receiver. I > am not about to have garbled versions floating about on top of it all. > > And then there is the copyright problem. Putting my stuff out on Bungi > would compromise my control of the material. It is interesting how the > internet has given people the impression that writers work for nothing and > give away their product. > > If people want a data sheet, they'll get the latest version in a clean hard > copy from one central place--ACTS. In fact, those who write or teach with my > materials should check in once a year to be sure they are using the latest > version of each handout and renew their permission to reprint. > > Making copies available free to Bungi's who ask or who send SASE's is the > best I can do. And happy I am to do it, too. > > Monona Rossol > ACTS > 181 Thompson St., # 23 > New York NY 10012-2586 212/777-0062 75054.2542@compuserve.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 28 13:36:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:39:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Cutting circles Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:32:24 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb28.43224.0> References: <<1999Feb28.82114.0>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk After all you see burglars do it all the time on TV shows!!! Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 28 14:10:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:35:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Help with dissassembling a leaded panel. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:41:00 +0000 Message-ID: <199902282133.QAA04931@alpha.nad.adelphia.net> Precedence: bulk I was just asked privately about my comment regarding the removal of putty by first soaking a panel in water to soften the putty. Here's what I said: Of course, you want to be careful with any panel that includes painted portions, but as for verifiable data ... decades of professional studios' experience? I refer you to Julie Sloan's "Conservation of Stained Glass in America," too: "To remove hardened putty from a disassembled window, try first soaking the unpainted pieces in water to soften the putty. However, if the putty contains Portland cement (a very hard, very white material commonly used in putty and mortar), it must be removed mechanically by careful chipping. It is very difficult to remove, has no known solvents or softeners, and may not, in fact, come off." [ Art in Architecture Press, 1995 -- http://aiap.com/ ] In fact, I just double-checked that with Julie. She confirms that water's usually used as the first step in softening recalcitrant putty for removal. Sometimes it just takes *tools! I was thinking of unpainted glass ... or of painted portions where the paint's condition is good enough that soaking in water won't remove it. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 28 14:24:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:40:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: Mosfunland@aol.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Nonglass, school project Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:40:45 EST Message-ID: <1999Feb28.204045.0> Precedence: bulk I am sending this along to the list, only because its from a group of school kids. I realize our list has members from all over the world, and perhaps you can drop them a note. My apologies if I offend anyone by sending this, I don't usually do it. I can just imagine a map with all the pushpins in it. They have a flag from Phila., PA now... Maureen We are a fourth grade class at Sieden Prairie School in Matteson, Illinois. Our class has 16 boys and 7 girls. Our school has 360 students. We decided to map an email project for our school because we were curious to see how far email can travel by Internet in the United States. Our project will last just two months, beginning January 22, 1999 and ending March 22, 1999 We would like your help. We ask that: 1. If you receive our email letter, could you email our class back telling us your location. Our email address is.... fourthgrade4b@yahoo.com 2. Also, please send our class letter on to 2 more people. >> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 28 14:39:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:09:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Spectrum & Dynasty using Chinese imports Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 17:07:30 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb28.12730.0> Precedence: bulk I forwarded some of the concerns to Jim at Spectrum and here is his reply. ~ Dani -------------Forwarded Message----------------- From: INTERNET:matthews@spectrumglass.com, INTERNET:matthews@spectrumglas= s.com To: Dani Greer, GreerStudios = Date: 2/26/99 3:03 PM RE: Re: Spectrum & Dynasty using Chinese imports Sender: matthews@spectrumglass.com Received: from smtp04.nwnexus.com (smtp04.nwnexus.com [206.63.63.52]) by hpamgaab.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.0) with ESMTP id SAA03762 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 18:03:18 -0500 (EST)= From: matthews@spectrumglass.com Received: from [206.63.41.162] (blv-lx105-ip12.nwnexus.net [206.63.41.162= ]) by smtp04.nwnexus.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA10933 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:03:16 -0800 (PST)= X-Sender: jmatt@pop.nwnexus.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:23:19 -0800 To: Dani Greer Subject: Re: Spectrum & Dynasty using Chinese imports Hi Dani: here is how I have responded to another who had a similar conce= rn: There is a company in China manufacturing 4 clear textures. There is no association with Spectrum other than the fact that Spectrum has aggreed t= o distribute their products. We are doing so under the moniker "Express" clear textures. These glasses are not similar in composition to Spectrum= and thus not compatible in terms of expansion. The imports include only the four clear textures we advertised, nothing else. Waterglass=AE is not being manufactured offshore. One of the impo= rted products is called "Venice." It is somewhat similar to Waterglass, but o= n comparison the differences are evident. Waterglass, clear and 25 or so colors, is made only by Spectrum and only in Woodinville. The differences between what we call "T-glass" and standard glass have nothing to do with sheet size. Waterglass always has narrower sheets, du= e to the stretching process that creates the texture. The look of the Waterglass varies somewhat; it is not a rolled, mechanical texture, but instead a natural texture resulting from the stretching process. Thus, i= t does look different from time to time and color to color. We try to keep= it consistent, within reason, but it is not unusual to see some variation= From owner-glass Sun Feb 28 14:57:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:14:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: Dani Greer To: "Pkelly" , Everyone Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Today's Bios Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 17:08:25 -0500 Message-ID: <1999Feb28.12825.0> Precedence: bulk Patrick, don't you ever die! I think I enjoy bungi as much for the tutu jokes as anything else! I told my husband that if we ever are all in the= same place at the same time, he will have to sing his version of The Wienershnitzel Waltz while you dance. We'll all laugh until our glass cracks! Best, Dani Greer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 28 15:10:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:34:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "James C. Kelly" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Wood frames Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:30:43 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb28.63043.0> Precedence: bulk I have only framed SG panels in oak. Oak as small in cross section as 1" X 1" (actual measure) should be fine for a 2' X 2' panel. Any larger and I would want to move up to the 1" X 1 3/4" frame stock commercialy available to me. Don't have any facts or figures on the realitive strength of various woods. I don't think it makes much difference if the panel is framed in zinc or lead. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. -----Original Message----- From: James C. Kelly To: bungi Date: Sunday, February 28, 1999 12:50 PM Subject: Wood frames >Hi all, >I'm jumping out of lurker mode for >some more help. >Subject being wood framing of panels. >I have available to me from local >sources pine, poplar and oak >framing with channels as = > >usually designed for stained glass. > >1. Specific question - I have been >asked to wood frame a 2 x 2 foot panel >currently framed in zinc. Using = > >1 3/8 framing size, can I use any of the = > >above wood materials for this job. >2. Non-specific - what are the = > >wise limitations of pine and poplar >as framing materials for stained glass >if a panel is framed in lead and = > >similarly if a panel is framed in zinc. > >Thanks in advance for any help. > >Jim >Jim Kelly >Virginia Beach VA >gcanvas@compuserve.com >Sunday, February 28, 1999 >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Feb 28 23:15:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:48:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12) X-Path: prodigy.net!BOBDU From: "Bob E Duchesneau" To: "Bungi" , "Shirley's List" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Coments welcomed Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:47:26 -0800 Message-ID: <1999Feb28.144726.0> Precedence: bulk >>Pat and Kyles Projects >>check it out would love coments , questions or suggestions http://www.media-net.net/ftpclients/lambdaep/test2/projectindex.htm >> I don't have an E-mail addy for this site but may come up with one. They would "love comments". Well, we shall see! Check it out. Bob Bob Duchesneau, Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026 Think glass: have class. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

Vic M.
Vmodiano@ctronsoft.com