From owner-glass Sun Nov  1 03:32:49 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Thanks! Gary Dodge?
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 01:18:24 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Oct31.191824.0>
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> From: dodgestudio@juno.com
> To: esavad@home.net
> Subject: Re: grozing pliers
> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 00:33:46 -0400
> Message-ID: <1998Oct6.203346.0>
> References: <<1998Sep30.4580.0>>>
> Precedence: bulk

I think it was Gary Dodge who posted the info below...
I have been doing this ever since, and have tried other methods to see
what works best/easiest for me.  I now have a set of regular pliers for
my left hand and my groziers in my right.  Works like a charm, have only
lost the piece one or two times, and it wasnt from the left/plier
hand...but from my right hand.  I have been doing lots of teeny little
cuts today, using scrap glass, wouldnt have been able to do it without
this advice!  Thanks~~  Suzanne

> .. Do any of the 
> >newbies
> >> ,or old timers(like me) use two groziers when thy want to separate 
> >small
> >> and sometimes,lengthy cuts. Just butt the groziers on the score and
> >> pull,I have been doing this for years and wondered if it wasn't 
> >something
> >> that should be passed on.

Yep, it has been helpful, thanks, who knows if it *ever* would have
occured to me on my own!

-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  1 04:01:22 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Poor Dani!
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 01:15:55 +0000
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Never mind Dani,
only 5  more weeks to  hang out on the scaffolding.
Fun when the wind reall blows, isn't it..   ;->
Will be thinking of you as I sit here by my cosy log-fire, with a 
glass of mulled wine, pondering my next drawing.... 
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

> 
> It's good luck to bleed on your
> glass, didn't you know that?  ;-)
> 
> Best,
> 
> Dani Greer (who's getting really =
> 
> sick of scaffolding!)
> ----
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> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  1 04:16:06 1998
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Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 01:15:55 +0000
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Well, Suzanne in Tulsa,
What did I tell you.
Dawn has now sent us not only a distance web-site, but also a 
selection of places in/around your neck of the woods.
Great stuff!
Happy hunting!!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  1 05:07:10 1998
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Subject: Seeking Paula/Excuse me
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 07:00:43 EST
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Please excuse me fellow bungies, but I am trying to contact Paula re:  Wedding
rings pattern for her and my mail is returned.  Are you still online Paula?
Please contact me.
Lenore
yegnim@aol.com
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  1 05:27:58 1998
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From: Paula Smith-Lane <"pmsl@epix.net"@epix.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Lamp shade pattern
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 07:16:31 -0500
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Hi everyone,
 I have an antique brass floor lamp. I would like to make a shade for
it. The problem is I can't find a pattern. Delphi has one on page 108 of
their catalogue, but is a kit. So you have to buy the whole lamp. Anyone
out there have a pattern of this type? TIA
Paula

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From owner-glass Sun Nov  1 07:16:11 1998
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Subject: bio 66 (sung to the tune route 66)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 08:55:22 EST
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Hey Candice,

Love your butterfly idea.  I do something similar, however I use a piece of
narrow copper tubing for the body.  I solder the wings on at an angle.  I use
a piece of 1/4 rebar bent on on end at a 45 or so degree angle and slide it
inside the copper.  The whole thing is then soldered  together with some
copper reinforcement strips for the atennea (I make little loops on the ends
of the copper strips).  

You said you solder a nut on the back.  What size nut?  How do you get the
butterfly supported at an angle?  Where did you find the patterns?  Details
please......Thank you.

On a personal note, I have had a glass butterfly in my yard for over 2 years
and it has taken Michigan winters wonderfully.  That includes ice storms,
blizards, wind storms, hail storms (you name the storm, the glass has come
through it with flying colors).  

Ok, I am supposed to be out here doing research not reading e mail, but you
guys are addictive......take care all.  

Pat

ps.  I wish I could share the halloween oreos I am eating as I sit here.  
----
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  1 07:37:47 1998
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From: "Vic LaGreca" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: "Glenna Rand" <gjr@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Happy Halloween/Techno Question
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 09:16:44 -0500
Message-ID: <19981101141330.IFYM10832@vic>
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Happy Halloween!  Saw the picture of you in costume.  Kind of tough to look
sinister with such soft eyes!

Question for the group.

I purchased two wrought iron plant hanger things at WC's this summer and
have finally finished one of them.  They both have Hexagonal shaped
openings on top of a stand pipe which has two loops incorporated for plant
hangers. The "hexagonal" is made of "L" shaped angle iron bent and
fashioned from one piece of material.  It is not a true hexagon since all
of its sides are of various lengths which consequently make the angles
vary.  I realized this before I got started and decided to make it with
equal sides. This decision was made so that if I decided to use the piece
elsewhere as a free hanging piece, I could. In order to see how it would
look finished, I cut the true form out of a piece of Luan and marked the
edges with an area representing the width of Zinc came and sketched and
colored in the pattern.  When this template was placed in the opening it
fit and I decided to go ahead with the master.  There where some areas
where the came would be slightly visible, but tolerable.  Since this
"stand" is made for out-doors and although it is not that large (about 18
1/2") at the widest part, I decide to use copper strip reinforcement.  This
was as much for practice at using a material I hadn't used before as it was
for stability of the piece.  Well I completed the piece, came and all, and
it was a hair to large, about an 1/8 inch.  This may not be a problem in a
wood frame where the frame can be modified but on an Iron frame it was.  I
decided to take the came off, and used three strands of wire twisted,
wrapped and soldered around the perimeter as the edge.  It worked!  I than
cut two pieces of 1/8" "Lexan" to the shape and sandwiched the piece
between them (this to protect the piece from wind, weather and the local
teenagers slingshots).  There were no provision on the stand for holding
the pieces in place so I improvised by using large black paper clamps on
the stands edge and then took the handles of.  This worked great.

Finally the questions.

If given this same situation in a "fixed" opening, say a window opening
with stone or masonry sides, sill and header, where the opening can't be
modified, is it better to fit the glasswork the opening? Or make it true to
its form i.e.: rectangle, circle, octagon etc. and use fillers, molding or
frame to compensate?

Also, I put a "composite blade" on an old "chop" saw to cut the Zinc. 
There were a number of burrs that I needed to file afterwards.  Also, the
blade made the came softer and more malleable at the cuts. Is this true
with the came saws that I see advertised and are they worth the investment?
 If the same is true for them, I would rather dedicate this saw to came and
purchase a new multi angle chop saw.

TIA

Ciao

Vic


----------
> From: Glenna Rand <gjr@bungi.com>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Happy Halloween
> Date: Saturday, October 31, 1998 12:06 PM
> 
> Hope everyone has a safe and fun halloween.
> You can see me last year dressed as Vampira on my webpage
> 
> http://www.bungi.com/ourpics/vamp2.jpg
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> 
> -- 
> Glenna Rand
> gjr@bungi.com
> ----
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  1 07:49:28 1998
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
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Subject: Swooning
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 09:20:48 -0500
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Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 10/30/98 9:33:34 PM, suzy@ComCAT.COM wrote:
>
> >Assignment noted and filed for future use.
> >Thank you, Dorothy, for the interesting project idea.
> >
> >Tell me, did Emeraldine do this one? :)
>
> Naw, she made googoo eyes at Pierre and sweet-talked him into "helping her
> with her homework," and he ended up doing most of it, and she swooned into his
> mighty arms........
>
> Sparks

Oh, dear, you must think my life is a bodice-ripper romance.  I promise you, I
complete my own work, just as Pierre does his.  We may be interupted by romance,
but Pierre is as likely to swoon as I am - perhaps more, if my count is right.
But then, my dearest does spend the day tending hot glass furnaces.

I did want to tell all of you that Jacques (Pierre's cousin) is in the planning
stages of ateempting some four-dimensional glass blowing, inspired by my 4D work.
Constructing the glory hole alone will probably cause a technological revolution.

Emeraldine

(Dorothy's brain can be awfully crowded at times)

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From owner-glass Sun Nov  1 08:08:00 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Glass Classes & Prices --- Now Kokomo
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 09:52:21 -0500
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Suzanne wrote:
> 
> > of course it's mostly the stuff Suzanne talked about not
> > wanting to touch
> 
> Does *all Kokomo have that funky texture, and just plain yucky feel to
> it?  If so, why would anyone want it?
> 
> > but there was a bit of turquoise and green Spectrum that I
> > liked).
> 
> Ooooooooooohhhhh, I want some of that.  I couldnt find any really nice
> greens the other day, other than stuff I already had.  Just as well ;o)
> I wouldnt have been able to afford it!
> 
> Suzanne
> --
> ~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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yes, that's how you can tell it's kokomo. the front has waxy like
texture to it. the back, kind of a fishy shape hook pattern. the back
can be used to your advantage though in opalecents. it has a pretty nice
looking swirl to it. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  1 08:27:49 1998
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Subject: Re:  RE: Band-aids - and bee stings
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 09:54:18 EST
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Also sprach Albert:

>Actually, a friend of my dad's 
>who had a bad case of arthritis worked with us one year because the 
>bee venom had a good effect on his problem. At the end of the year, 
>the arthritis was all cleared up. A little known but real help.

I've heard of that - it's documented to help some people. I remember reading
about a clinical study where they were testing insect venom shots.

>Anyway, as I understand it, if you're allergic, even *one sting sets 
>off the reaction. Obviously, neither my dad or I was allergic; 
>neither was the friend.

Sad to say, you can *become* allergic to anything at any time, even if you've
had no problem with it before. From what I've read (in the "serious" press,
thank you very much - I don't go for the fringey stuff) and been told by my
doctors, you don't start out allergic. It's another type of out-of-whack
immune response (like arthritis is thought to be), and often the first time
you're exposed to something your body reacts "normally," but for some reason
in some cases it stays geared up to fight that particular invasion and goes
bonkers next time.

My brother-in-law is a good case in point. He grew up eating chicken, never
had a problem with it, and in young adulthood he suddenly had a reaction to it
that put him in the hospital in a coma. Any trace of "bird meat" is life-
threatening to him. My sister just about can't use any prepared mixes when she
cooks, because they might have traces of chicken protein in them.

I myself had my first nasty reaction to a sulfa drug at 40 - and I'd been
taking them for occasional infections since I was a kid!

You can also become cross-sensitized to other things. One of the things my
allergist told me when I was considering getting allergy shots is that there's
a low incidence of cross-sensitization from those too. That cross-
sensitization - not any inherent allergy to something - is what makes you
react "the first time." Not common but it does happen occasionally - and the
shots don't "really work" all the time, so he tries not to give them unless
the allergies are fairly severe. (He won't give them at all for something
you've had a life-threatening reaction to, it's too risky.)

I mentioned before that heavy-metal salts are bad actors..... I spent some
time working for the major manufacturer of catalytic converter blocks for auto
exhaust systems. The company wouldn't hire anyone who tested positive for
allergies of any kind, because people with other allergies were more likely to
become sensitized to the metal salts, and they had a nurse on-site at all
times in case someone did have a reaction to something. One guy I worked with
was with the company for 10 or 12 years before he started developing nasty
reactions to the stuff he was working with. At the time I knew him, he was
working in his own environmentally controlled shed out back (he certainly
would have qualified for permanent disability but I don't think the company
wanted to pay it, so they set him up with a "safe" work area instead).

Enough for one Sunday morning. Gotta go eat breakfast and then sing in
church......


Sparks
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  1 08:50:55 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon
From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Lamp shade pattern & New Questions
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 10:53:06 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov1.15536.0>
Precedence: bulk

If you mean torchier shades, I have a pattern book called Simply Lamps by
Suzanne Cooper that has a torchier version of each shade.  Instead of a vase
cap you use a fitter ring.  The same construction is used on the gooseneck
shades.  I have made several and they are not too hard to do.

New Questions:
I also have two antique brass floor lamps with onyx and marble inserts in the
rod part and on the base.  Mine are the type with a swing arm holding the
shade (a bridge lamp???), and I've been wondering if it's possible to make
stained glass shades for them.  I asked once at Warner-Crivellaro and the
expert there said that because the weight of the shade was off-center, it
would be unsafe.  Couldn't I weight the base to offset that?  Also the shade
attaches to the socket with a threaded ring.  Do they still make those?  Any
antique lamp experts out there?

Brenda

In a message dated 11/1/98 8:28:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
pmsl@epix.net@epix.net writes:

<<  I have an antique brass floor lamp. I would like to make a shade for
 it. The problem is I can't find a pattern. Delphi has one on page 108 of
 their catalogue, but is a kit. So you have to buy the whole lamp. Anyone
 out there have a pattern of this type? TIA
 Paula >>
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  1 09:11:20 1998
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From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: glass identification
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 10:55:44 EST
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In a message dated 11/1/98 3:59:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,
gunnx4@ix.netcom.com writes:

<< On the cover of Tiffany Garden...the pansies,  The mottled looking multi
 colored glass used for the background....
 
 I think that is the coolest looking glass. >>

I have been wondering about that glass too.. would love to have some.  Is it
Bullseye?
Brenda
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  1 10:03:48 1998
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From: Kris <kristc@home.com>
To: BMarhon@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Bio #66 & #65
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 11:00:19 -0500
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Hi Brenda :) I'm in Sarasota, gulf side, south of Tampa. Hasn't our
weather turned wonderful? Just perfect out there! I'm going to take
another day off and spend it with my glass in the garage where I have my
work space. 

Enjoyed your bio too Candice. Are you back in Gainsville? I love your
butterfly idea, will have to give that some thought myself. I think
Trinity is a beautiful name for a daughter too. 

Kris

BMarhon@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Love your bios, Candice and Kris.  Not one, but two, fellow Floridians on
> bungi.  Either one of you on the east coast?  We've had beautiful weather this
> week - upper 70's low 80's during the day and down to 60's at night.  A great
> day for soldering today (all windows/doors open).
> 
> Brenda
> ----
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  1 10:14:08 1998
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X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray
From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Techno Question (came saw)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 08:33:39 -0800
Message-ID: <199811011633.IAA15158@oceanus.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

>If given this same situation in a "fixed" opening, say a window opening
>with stone or masonry sides, sill and header, where the opening can't be
>modified, is it better to fit the glasswork the opening? Or make it true to
>its form i.e.: rectangle, circle, octagon etc. and use fillers, molding or
>frame to compensate?

Hi Vic...make the glass to fit the opening, including space needed for border.

>Also, I put a "composite blade" on an old "chop" saw to cut the Zinc. 
>There were a number of burrs that I needed to file afterwards.  Also, the
>blade made the came softer and more malleable at the cuts. Is this true
>with the came saws that I see advertised and are they worth the investment?
> If the same is true for them, I would rather dedicate this saw to came and
>purchase a new multi angle chop saw.

My Dad is a retired shop teacher, now a guitar maker, and I had him look at
the came saws when he was with me at my wholesalers recently.  He knows
quality tools is very unimpressed with the quality and precision of the
commercially available came saws, particularly at the price asked.  The
commmercial came saws do not have as fine a control over angles as a regular
chop saw...the degrees are not marked, and on the one we looked at, the
screws did not hold the angle true...they allowed for a little wobble, which
would result in less than true angle cuts.  So his (and my advice) is to
spend your money on a quality saw and work that way.

C.




Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

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From owner-glass Sun Nov  1 11:24:26 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Glenna's web page vampira
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 12:11:51 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov1.61151.0>
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<<Hope everyone has a safe and fun halloween.
You can see me last year dressed as Vampira on my webpage

http://www.bungi.com/ourpics/vamp2.jpg

Enjoy!>>

I think I dated that character in my former life. I think she was obsessed
by sweeping the studio in her bare feet and saying "Oh Frit" when she
stepped on a piece of glass.

Thanks Glenna, you looked great.

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sun Nov  1 11:45:02 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Pattern for Sun Conjure
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 12:18:58 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov1.61858.0>
Precedence: bulk

Kathy,

I have a Jenda Conjure and are they ever beautiful. I will search  my
patterns and see what I can come up with. If not send me a scanned photo
(private email, lest we suffer the rath of the list) and I'll turn in into a
pattern. Sun Conjures have different markings than mine otherwise I would
scan a photo of mine. Another thought, if you have a Pet S Mart near you
they may have a coloring book.

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sun Nov  1 13:38:08 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Glass Classes & Prices
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 15:34:19 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov1.103419.0>
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Message text written by INTERNET:BMarhon@aol.com
>Anyway, since I don't have a came bender and don't really want to buy on=
e
right now, they offered to frame the panel (it's a round top 30 inches at=

the
bottom and 14 inches at the top of the round part) for $25 plus the
materials
($6).  Does that seem like a fair price?<

Seems fair to me!

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  1 14:03:16 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: glass identification
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 15:34:22 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov1.103422.0>
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Message text written by Suzanne
>On the cover of Tiffany Garden...the pansies,  The mottled looking multi=

colored glass used for the background....

I think that is the coolest looking glass.  I have seen similar
bullseye, and saw a small picture of some *stippled glass in WC
catalog...  Anybody know what that glass might be called, so that maybe
I can find something similar for myself? ;o)  That is one of those
glasses I that I would want to hoard.<

It might be some Youghiogheny glass.  They make LOVELY stuff!

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  1 16:54:57 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: BMarhon@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Lamp shade pattern & New Questions
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 19:03:40 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov1.14340.0>
References: <<1998Nov1.15536.0>>
Precedence: bulk

BMarhon@aol.com wrote:
> 
> If you mean torchier shades, I have a pattern book called Simply Lamps by
> Suzanne Cooper that has a torchier version of each shade.  Instead of a vase
> cap you use a fitter ring.  The same construction is used on the gooseneck
> shades.  I have made several and they are not too hard to do.
> 
> New Questions:
> I also have two antique brass floor lamps with onyx and marble inserts in the
> rod part and on the base.  Mine are the type with a swing arm holding the
> shade (a bridge lamp???), and I've been wondering if it's possible to make
> stained glass shades for them.  I asked once at Warner-Crivellaro and the
> expert there said that because the weight of the shade was off-center, it
> would be unsafe.  Couldn't I weight the base to offset that?  Also the shade
> attaches to the socket with a threaded ring.  Do they still make those?  Any
> antique lamp experts out there?
> 
> Brenda
> 
> In a message dated 11/1/98 8:28:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> pmsl@epix.net@epix.net writes:
> 
> <<  I have an antique brass floor lamp. I would like to make a shade for
>  it. The problem is I can't find a pattern. Delphi has one on page 108 of
>  their catalogue, but is a kit. So you have to buy the whole lamp. Anyone
>  out there have a pattern of this type? TIA
>  Paula >>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


that's the first thing i thought of. with a vairly heavy base it might
work. but the armature that's going to hold up the shade, may be too
weak.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  1 18:11:28 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: non s.g.  - for Kevin Walsh......
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 01:13:32 +0000
Message-ID: <199811020120.BAA18859@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Kevin,

Your mom and I had a long phone conversation last night. Your mom 
subscribes to Bungi.... She has told you about me, that I am coming 
over to USA from England to talk about stained glass, to show and 
doing things.. You and I had a bit of a conversation too.
At 12-years old, I really think you are one helluva guy. So this 
e-mail -... all public.... is just for you!!
I think you are quite a cool guy too.

Let me tell you something;  when I was 10 years old.... I contracted 
an ear inflammation that got nasty.... part of my head got blue, 
green and purple . My mother thought I was making a big fuss about 
nothing. Eventually I got to hospital and had a number of operations 
to my ear.  I have a deep gouge carved out in my skull behind one of 
my ears (you can't see it) and I have hardly any hearing at all from 
one of my ears.
Somehow or another I have managed to get by.  I have managed more 
than 50 years with just one ear. I reckon I'll survive another few 
years or so.
I tell you something else.... I'll really look forward to meeting you 
next year...... You are a real cool guy!!
Toby thinks so too...

Sorry folks. I DID say this was non-s.g.
This is just - very publically - for Kevin .
You have had quite a battle on your hands and I think you really are 
quite somethimng to have come up on top!
And your Mom never said a word.....
Hey! you and I are going to have a ball next year!!!!

Take care now Kevin!!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  1 20:28:16 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!mschatee
From: mschatee@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glass classes-Food for Thought
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 21:54:09 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov2.2549.0>
References: <<01be04d7$bf7ef1c0$7205cad0@charles.area37.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Charles,
I could never take anything you or any other bungian had to say in a mean
spirited way:-)  We are all here to express our opinions and share with
one another.
I should explain though that the teacher of the class was not actually
the owner of the stained glass studio that I buy from, she works for the
owner but was paid by my school on an hourly wage to teach the class. 
This particular studio happens to be the only store within 70 miles east
or west (to my knowledge) that sells anything stained glass related.  So
maybe loyalty was the wrong word for me to use.  All I know is I'm
addicted to stained glass and he's the only  supplier around to get my
fixed.  And from all the online shopping and price comparisons I've done
his prices are very reasonable.  He drives to Buffalo about once a week
to stock up himself (it's a 4 hour drive).  Actually his prices are the
same as the catalogs, he keeps some on the counter and will look up the
item and charge whatever is in the book, sometimes less a little.  I feel
he is fair and honest and even if there was some competition in the area
I would like to deal with him anyway.  He will also special order
anything you want and doesn't charge for shipping.  I like the way he
does business...so he has earned my loyalty.

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
----
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  1 22:03:30 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!gcanvas
From: "James C. Kelly" <gcanvas@compuserve.com>
To: bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re:Glass Classes & Prices
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 23:45:48 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov1.184548.0>
Precedence: bulk

>>Anyway, since I don't have a came bender and don't really want
>>to buy one right now, they offered to frame the panel (it's a
>>round top 30 inches at the bottom and 14 inches at the top of
>>the round part) for $25 plus the materials ($6).  Does that
>>seem like a fair price?

Hi Brenda,
For comparison pricing,
my local retailer will
bend a zinc perimeter
to fit a 15 to 18 inch
circle for $5 plus the cost of =

materials.  That means
she bends the perimeter
zinc channel and I place =

the finished panel in it =

and complete all necessary
soldering.
Works for me.

Jim
Jim Kelly
Virginia Beach VA
gcanvas@compuserve.com
Sunday, November 01, 1998
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  1 23:00:05 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, mschatee@juno.com
Subject: Re: Glass classes-Food for Thought
Date: Mon,  2 Nov 1998 01:11:19, -0500
Message-ID: <199811020611.BAA15390@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>Charles,
I could never take anything you or any other bungian had to say in a 
mean
spirited way:-)  We are all here to express our opinions and share 
with
one another.
I should explain though that the teacher of the class was not 
actually
the owner of the stained glass studio that I buy from, she works for 
the
owner but was paid by my school on an hourly wage to teach the class. 

This particular studio happens to be the only store within 70 miles 
east
or west (to my knowledge) that sells anything stained glass related.  
So
maybe loyalty was the wrong word for me to use.  All I know is I'm
addicted to stained glass and he's the only  supplier around to get 
my
fixed.  And from all the online shopping and price comparisons I've 
done
his prices are very reasonable.  He drives to Buffalo about once a 
week
to stock up himself (it's a 4 hour drive).  Actually his prices are 
the
same as the catalogs, he keeps some on the counter and will look up 
the
item and charge whatever is in the book, sometimes less a little.  I 
feel
he is fair and honest and even if there was some competition in the 
area
I would like to deal with him anyway.  He will also special order
anything you want and doesn't charge for shipping.  I like the way 
he
does business...so he has earned my loyalty.<<

I usually crop my quotes but this letter is so much to my liking that 
I take pleasure in repeating it in total.

There is much talk on this group about mail order stained glass. In 
my opinion it is a poor second to having a good retailer within a 
reasonable shopping distance. Please note that I have given two 
qualifications for the retailer:
1. A good retailer, and 
2. reasonable shopping distance.

A rip off retailer, such as the one selling the $275.00 grinder, does 
not deserve your business. A poorly stocked retailer can not take 
your business. These are IMO very good reasons to go mail order.

It was with pleasure that I read of the retailer offering to match 
catalog pricing. I have been presented this challenge and accepted it 
gladly. An item by item comparison showed that mail order was higher 
and that is before packing and shipping was added on. So, get your 
catalog and see what the truth is and not what others say. Go over 
pricing with your retailer and, if necessary, ask that they match the 
catalog pricing. Most likely they will be happy to do so.

You can buy glass through a catalog but I wouldn't unless there was 
no other reasonable way. I care enough about my work to hand select 
my glass and not use only what is delivered to me after being 
selected by someone else. Further catalogs are generally expensive 
for what you get and they offer little custom service. If you need a 
piece of glass 1" X 36" I will be happy to cut it and charge you for 
36" of a square foot plus whatever extra short piece of glass that 
was cut from the large sheet. Do you want 3" off the end of a large 
sheet of glass? No problem and you only pay for what you get. Most 
other retailers are happy to do the same for you. Can you ask for and 
get professional advice on the selection of glass from most retailers?
 You sure can! Try doing that on the phone- it is not the same thing.


Enough for now. I look forward to a lively debate on this subject.

Bob
Owner and Chief Cook (not crook) 

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026
Want to talk glass? Join E-mail list:     glass@intrastar.net

<Prodigy Distribution List>
TO: YWAH36A

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From owner-glass Mon Nov  2 04:41:43 1998
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X-Path: epix.net!"pmsl@epix.net"
From: Paula Smith-Lane <"pmsl@epix.net"@epix.net>
To: Yegnim@aol.com, "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Seeking Paula/Excuse me
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 06:52:40 -0500
Message-ID: <199811021156.GAA27858@out.epix.net>
References: <<1998Nov1.12043.0>>
Organization: Prefered Customer
Precedence: bulk

Hi Lenore,
 Yes I'm still here lurking in the background, mostly. Look forward to hearing
from you. Hope you can "get through" to me. I'll keep watching for your mail. I'm
cementing my window now. My husband is busy getting the oak ready for the frame.
I'll send you a photo when it's done. I'm pretty proud of my first try at a
window.
Talk to you soon.
Paula

Yegnim@aol.com wrote:

> Please excuse me fellow bungies, but I am trying to contact Paula re:  Wedding
> rings pattern for her and my mail is returned.  Are you still online Paula?
> Please contact me.
> Lenore
> yegnim@aol.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Mon Nov  2 05:42:30 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  RE: Band-aids
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 08:02:23 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov2.13223.0>
Precedence: bulk


Dani Greer (who's getting really sick of scaffolding!) wrote:

>It's good luck to bleed on your
>glass, didn't you know that?  ;-)

I've been known to refer to it as "pouring out a libation to the silica god."
Effective or not, it's still too kinky for my creature-of-comfort taste....


Sparks
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  2 06:03:42 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re:  Re: glass class prices
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 08:02:24 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov2.13224.0>
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In a message dated 10/31/98 12:12:43 PM, ctombro@InfoAve.Net wrote:

>Thanks Sparks,
>
>Now our secret to southern front yard gardening is out to the general public.
>Our lawn ornaments will never be the same;  now that everyone knows our
>secrets to landscaping your front yard.

Oops! Sorry, I didn't know it was a secret............. :-)


Sparks
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  2 06:22:51 1998
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From: bill <shmilly@netcom.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: kokopelli pattern and "morton system"
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 08:10:33 -0500
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Precedence: bulk

hi all........i was wondering if anyone has a kokopelli (the mythic flute
player) pattern or knows if there are any pattern books containing
one.........also i am trying to obtain information on the "morton
system"........anybody out there use it?........do they have a
website?..(or an address?).....i don't know what parts and pieces are
available for the system and what they are supposed to accomplish........i
have only seen a few parts and pieces in a catalogue and was wondering what
the "whole" system consists of..........all help will be greatly
appreciated!!.........Bill

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From owner-glass Mon Nov  2 06:45:55 1998
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From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Glass classes-Food for Thought
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:00:19 -0500
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Well said Bob.  There are more honest retailers than not.  However it takes
only one rotten fish to stink up the market.

Arnold Schneider    Creekside Creations    Richfield, PA
-----Original Message-----
From: BOB DUCHESNEAU <YWAH36A@prodigy.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>; mschatee@juno.com <mschatee@juno.com>
Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 2:10 AM
Subject: Re: Glass classes-Food for Thought


>>>Charles,
>I could never take anything you or any other bungian had to say in a
>mean
>spirited way:-)  We are all here to express our opinions and share
>with
>one another.
>I should explain though that the teacher of the class was not
>actually
>the owner of the stained glass studio that I buy from, she works for
>the
>owner but was paid by my school on an hourly wage to teach the class.
>
>This particular studio happens to be the only store within 70 miles
>east
>or west (to my knowledge) that sells anything stained glass related.
>So
>maybe loyalty was the wrong word for me to use.  All I know is I'm
>addicted to stained glass and he's the only  supplier around to get
>my
>fixed.  And from all the online shopping and price comparisons I've
>done
>his prices are very reasonable.  He drives to Buffalo about once a
>week
>to stock up himself (it's a 4 hour drive).  Actually his prices are
>the
>same as the catalogs, he keeps some on the counter and will look up
>the
>item and charge whatever is in the book, sometimes less a little.  I
>feel
>he is fair and honest and even if there was some competition in the
>area
>I would like to deal with him anyway.  He will also special order
>anything you want and doesn't charge for shipping.  I like the way
>he
>does business...so he has earned my loyalty.<<
>
>I usually crop my quotes but this letter is so much to my liking that
>I take pleasure in repeating it in total.
>
>There is much talk on this group about mail order stained glass. In
>my opinion it is a poor second to having a good retailer within a
>reasonable shopping distance. Please note that I have given two
>qualifications for the retailer:
>1. A good retailer, and
>2. reasonable shopping distance.
>
>A rip off retailer, such as the one selling the $275.00 grinder, does
>not deserve your business. A poorly stocked retailer can not take
>your business. These are IMO very good reasons to go mail order.
>
>It was with pleasure that I read of the retailer offering to match
>catalog pricing. I have been presented this challenge and accepted it
>gladly. An item by item comparison showed that mail order was higher
>and that is before packing and shipping was added on. So, get your
>catalog and see what the truth is and not what others say. Go over
>pricing with your retailer and, if necessary, ask that they match the
>catalog pricing. Most likely they will be happy to do so.
>
>You can buy glass through a catalog but I wouldn't unless there was
>no other reasonable way. I care enough about my work to hand select
>my glass and not use only what is delivered to me after being
>selected by someone else. Further catalogs are generally expensive
>for what you get and they offer little custom service. If you need a
>piece of glass 1" X 36" I will be happy to cut it and charge you for
>36" of a square foot plus whatever extra short piece of glass that
>was cut from the large sheet. Do you want 3" off the end of a large
>sheet of glass? No problem and you only pay for what you get. Most
>other retailers are happy to do the same for you. Can you ask for and
>get professional advice on the selection of glass from most retailers?
> You sure can! Try doing that on the phone- it is not the same thing.
>
>
>Enough for now. I look forward to a lively debate on this subject.
>
>Bob
>Owner and Chief Cook (not crook)
>
>____
>Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026
>Want to talk glass? Join E-mail list:     glass@intrastar.net
>
><Prodigy Distribution List>
>TO: YWAH36A
>
>----
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  2 07:07:57 1998
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From: Carol Tombro <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>
To: glass@bungi.com, BOB DUCHESNEAU <YWAH36A@prodigy.com>
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Subject: Glass classes-Food for Thought
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 08:34:45 -0500
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Re Bob's post about Charles' letter.  I've said before the
studio/supplier where I go is, IMHO about the best I could hope for.
She is placing a new glass order and Saturday I had the opportunity to
"PICK" what I wanted out of Uroboros, Wissmach, etc. etc.  Usually, if I
like it, she likes it and vice versa.  Of course, I didn't pick out the
whole order, maybe 20 sheets at most and all art glass, so I had to be
restrained somewhat.  Also, I mentioned that I couldn't keep my cutter
straight, even tightening the screw didn't help..  She told me to bring
it back (I've had it 2 years) and she'd give me another one.  There is
really no reason for me to catalog shop, even though I have many of
them.  I was trying to get ahold of a book that had been discontinued.
As soon as she knows a book is going to be discontinued, she keeps the
last one for the shop.  She let me take the book Saturday and photocopy
the patterns I wanted.  No charge.  If I need something she either
doesn't carry or normally doesn't stock, all I have to do is ask her to
order it for me and within a week I have it.  I've checked her prices
against catalog prices and she's right in the ballpark with them.  I
don't think I've mentioned that she cuts what I need, don't think a
catalog would.  The sample packs don't represent the glass necessarily.
Each sheet is different each time and I like to have the piece cut where
"I see something" that at some time in the future I'll definitely need.
I don't believe she is becoming extremely wealthy doing business the
way  she does, but as long as she treats her customers fairly, it's not
my concern if she does become rich off of this business, just as long as
she doesn't go out of business.  I might mention also, that there are
people who come as much as 200 miles - which is a bit of a trip - to buy
their glass from her.
Oh yeah, everytime you buy something, even if it's a dollar, your ticket
goes into jar to be drawn each month for whatever she decides to give
away.  I was lucky enough to be picked and my gift was $50 in glass.
Wonder why when I got through picking my glass it cost me another $70
above the $50.  As I said, she's a good business woman.  Bob is right,
catalog shopping for glass, for me, would be a last resort.  I have to
see it and feel it.  If you like glue glass and the like, then I can see
catalog shopping for that type of glass, not good art glass though.

Carol T


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From owner-glass Mon Nov  2 07:34:19 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: Kath8284@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re:  Pattern Request
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:14:31 EST
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In a message dated 10/31/98 1:56:52 PM, Kath8284@aol.com wrote:

>    Does anyone know of a pattern for a  Sun Conure..........this is a small
>parrot..green and blue wings feathers and a bright yellow body? [...]

There's a very fine photo of one on the "Sun Conure Page" at

http://www.aloha.net/~granty/sun.htm

that looks as if it would be easy to adapt. Definitely looks like it would
call for some of that multicolor Tiffany reproduction glass, though! such as
that fabulous Yough Laburnum.......

Description of the bird from the same page:

-----------------------------------------

Sun Conure (Aratinga solstitialis)

Physical Description: The suns are a beautiful red/orange/yellow over most of
the bird. The wings have a slight green on the wings. The younger birds are
more green, and their brighter colors appear after several molts. As with all
conures, the Sun has the white skin patch around the eye. Average weight of
100g-120g 

Length: 12" 

Sexing: Undeterminable by appearance. However, you can take a guess by looking
at the shape of the bird's head. Females have a rounder and smaller head than
the male. The male's head is  squarer, with a flatter forehead.

Origin: North western Brazil, Guyana and Venezuela.

Trainability: The Suns are very playful and entertaining birds, and can be
trained easily. Many breeders find the Sun to have a great playful
personality.

Loudness: The Suns are known as loud birds. The bird has a very loud scream.
And if not trained properly, the bird will be loud often. Sun owners say it is
possible to train the birds to be more quiet. 

-----------------------------------------

It's a beautiful little bird!

http://www.aloha.net/~granty/ carries photos and descriptions of quite a few
members of the parrot family.


Sparks
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  2 07:44:49 1998
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: kokopelli pattern and "morton system"
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 08:44:35 +0000
Message-ID: <199811021435.JAA25992@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Precedence: bulk


> hi all........i was wondering if anyone has a kokopelli (the mythic flute
> player) pattern or knows if there are any pattern books containing
> one........

You can find a lot of them at
http://uswest.gifwizard.com/
Click on Picture Search and type in "Kokopelli."


.also i am trying to obtain information on the "morton
> system"........anybody out there use it?........do they have a
> website?..(or an address?)..

They're working on their web site. Their address is listed in the 
Sources Guide under "M" for "Morton." 

Morton Glass Works, Inc., PO Box 465, Morton IL 61550. Phone: (309)
266-5712. Fax: (309) 263-8376. 

       Glass cutting surfaces, assembly fixtures, grinder accessories,
       tool boxes, light boxes, geometric and strip cutting fixtures,
       layout fixtures, breaking tools and reinforcement strips.
       Manufacturer.


Hope this helps.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.
A 501(c)(6) not-for-profit association
54 Cherry St., PO Box 1809, North Adams MA 01247-1809
(413) 663-5512  Fax: (413) 663-7167
_____________________________________________
Home page     http://www.igga.org/
Sources Guide http://www.igga.org/guide.htm
Guild Library http://www.aiap.com/amazon/



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From owner-glass Mon Nov  2 08:39:30 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: kokopelli pattern and "morton system"
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 08:44:35 +0000
Message-ID: <199811021435.JAA25992@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
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> hi all........i was wondering if anyone has a kokopelli (the mythic flute
> player) pattern or knows if there are any pattern books containing
> one........

You can find a lot of them at
http://uswest.gifwizard.com/
Click on Picture Search and type in "Kokopelli."


.also i am trying to obtain information on the "morton
> system"........anybody out there use it?........do they have a
> website?..(or an address?)..

They're working on their web site. Their address is listed in the 
Sources Guide under "M" for "Morton." 

Morton Glass Works, Inc., PO Box 465, Morton IL 61550. Phone: (309)
266-5712. Fax: (309) 263-8376. 

       Glass cutting surfaces, assembly fixtures, grinder accessories,
       tool boxes, light boxes, geometric and strip cutting fixtures,
       layout fixtures, breaking tools and reinforcement strips.
       Manufacturer.


Hope this helps.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.
A 501(c)(6) not-for-profit association
54 Cherry St., PO Box 1809, North Adams MA 01247-1809
(413) 663-5512  Fax: (413) 663-7167
_____________________________________________
Home page     http://www.igga.org/
Sources Guide http://www.igga.org/guide.htm
Guild Library http://www.aiap.com/amazon/



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From owner-glass Mon Nov  2 09:06:43 1998
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From: "Dan and Katherine Roberts" <dankat@mail.myriad.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: RE: Pattern for Sun Conure
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 08:44:59 -0600
Message-ID: <199811021415.IAA11582@newman.myriad.net>
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Kathy, I'm very sorry to hear about your mom's bird.  I've got a wonderful
sun conure that I would be devastated to lose.  

Patrick, if Kathy does not have a photo of her mom's bird, let me know.  I 
have pictures of my sun, as well as a book on conures that I can scan a 
picture of a sun from.  

Katherine Roberts
dankat@mail.myriad.net
  

  


On 1 Nov 98, at 12:18, Pat Kelly wrote:

> Kathy,
> 
> I have a Jenda Conjure and are they ever beautiful. I will search  my
> patterns and see what I can come up with. If not send me a scanned photo
> (private email, lest we suffer the rath of the list) and I'll turn in into
> a pattern. Sun Conjures have different markings than mine otherwise I
> would scan a photo of mine. Another thought, if you have a Pet S Mart near
> you they may have a coloring book.
> 
> Patrick
> Roses and Rainbows
> 
> ----
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> 


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From owner-glass Mon Nov  2 09:28:23 1998
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'BMarhon@aol.com'" <BMarhon@aol.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Lamp shade pattern & New Questions
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:33:56 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov2.53356.0>
Precedence: bulk


 Brenda siad:
 Also the shade
attaches to the socket with a threaded ring.  Do they still make those?  Any
antique lamp experts out there?

Brenda

Check out the online catalog of:

http://www.mainelyshades.com/ 

Nice folks to buy from.

Linda

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From owner-glass Mon Nov  2 09:29:33 1998
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'Howard and Elaine Rubin'" <weaver51@teleport.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: hanging lamp
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:55:07 -0500
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Howard's comment below reminds me of a question that has come up in my mind 
when folks were bantering about cuts being accurate enough to never need 
the grinder.

At the time I thought accurate is nice but I was taught ( and it seem to 
work for me) that a quick grind of the edges (even on the most accurate cut 
piece.) not only keeps the sharp edges from cutting the foil but also makes 
the glue on the foil stick better, thereby making a stronger joint. All you 
folks who cut so accurately, do you buff the edge with the grinder or just 
clean and apply foil? Of course if the subject is lead came, I guess it's 
not an issue.

Linda

Howard said:

I used to get a lot of hanging lamps (usually imported) to be repaired due 
to poor soldering and glass not being ground and the foil not adhering. 
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  2 10:27:04 1998
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From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: Band-aids
Date: Mon Nov  2 09:48:55 1998
Message-ID: <1998Nov3.72455.0>
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I have avoided Elderberry wine since the first time I saw "Arsenic and
Old Lace".
But if you promise it will not cause yellow fever I'll join you in a
gallon.

Chaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrggggggggg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vic
Now typing from Happy Dale 

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Toby [mailto:toby@northlights.co.uk]
		Sent:	Friday, October 30, 1998 7:46 PM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	RE: Band-aids

		Good on you!!!
		- ... hicc.--
		You would feel right at home in my little Hertfordshire
cottage in 
		li'lle 'ole England.....  - hicc -
		Gallons and gallons of good ole' home-brew bubbling away
in every 
		corner of my dining room.  -hicc-
		4 gallons of apple wine,    - burp -
		 -4 gallons of blackberry-wine, - ghhhrghhhruphhh-
		2 gallons of elderberry wine, -   hicc -
		Another 2 gallons of "miscellanous"  wild-fruit wine
		"hicc"
		I doschn't give a shzzzhiht aboooot - hicc-
sscczzhhwinter- hicc -
		hghhhfhicc!
		Elisschzzabethschh - hicc- 'n schhhToby in schUk
		-HICC!!!!-



		wadd did you schhhhay?-- .. HICC_...?> Fortunately my
blood was 
		replaced by Tennessee Sour Mash Whiskey during
		> my college years. What drips on my glass is closer to
bourbon that
		> blood. 
		----
		As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of
mind"
		North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
	
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
		----
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  2 11:01:42 1998
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: bill <shmilly@netcom.ca>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: kokopelli pattern and "morton system"
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:28:09 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1998Nov2.2289.0>
References: <<3.0.6.32.19981102081033.007942f0@popd.netcom.ca>>
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Hi Bill:

The Kokopelli design is in the Southwest Designs booklet.  As to the
Morton System...it is a real time saving device.  I highly recommend using
it especially for straight and angled edges.  You may want to start with
the basics and add to the system as you require the different support
provided by the system.  I would recommend first of all that you get the
maxi grid and the Portable Glass Shop.  Then add the Safety Breaker M-80
followed by the Safety Break System.  Get a few extra stops and you will
find it really saves time.  (No, I am not being paid.  I resisted using
the morton system for many years but once I did, I can't believe the
difference and ease in glass cutting).  I had the retailer who refused to
share any tips or secrets of the trade.  Although I had seen the system in
use in the retail shop, not once did she offer to demonstrate or tell
about the system attributes.  The Safety Breaker M-80 is excellent for
cutting curved areas and the time and glass waste alone will pay for the
system.  Guess you can tell I do recommend your getting the Morton System. 

Also, if you get a chance to see Don Abel demonstrate the system (Don is
the founder), you will gain much more than you ever thought possible.  The
video is not particularly helpful.  The only other thing I will mention is
that the instructions are poorly written but if you remember you geometry,
you won't have a problem figuring out the system.  PJ

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From owner-glass Mon Nov  2 14:02:11 1998
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'Alex Gacic'" <agacic@hotmail.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: glass class prices
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:41:28 -0500
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I have had the same experience in giving NRA Basic Pistol and Personal 
Protection courses. If I don't get something up front, they always (many) 
feel it's not important enough to come the day of the class. Get the money 
up front. Your time is worth it.

Linda

Alex said:
 I talked to our local glass retailer about my experience.  He said they
always charge a fee.  Sometimes even just a token $5 registration fee
for brief seminars.  To him it seems that if its free, a person
registering for a class can blow it off more easily, and they seem to be
more willing to keep a commitment if they paid a little up front.


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From owner-glass Mon Nov  2 14:42:09 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!tifstyorig
From: tifstyorig@juno.com (Diane W Manchester)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: kokopelli pattern and "morton system"
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:59:59 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov2.115959.0>
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There is a wonderful kokopelli design in the second of the Southwest
series books.  I am so sorry I can't tell you the name as it is hidden
behind 80 bales of hay currently stored in my studio......I can't even
squeeze over to pull it out......aaarrrggghhh!  But be encouraged that
there is one out there and it is really nice.  You can make in stand or
hang.  If you can't find it, email me and as soon as the hay is moved, I
will email privately with the exact title.

Diane Manchester
Tiffany Styled Originals
Carthage, NC (formerly in Delray Beach, FL)
___________________________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  2 17:15:37 1998
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Subject: Web Page Update...
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:19:36 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov3.01936.0>
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Sinrod Studios
http://members.aol.com/JKSinrod/sinrod.html

Coney Island Memorabilia
http://members.aol.com/JKSinrod/page4.html
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From owner-glass Tue Nov  3 03:40:18 1998
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Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 06:07:24 EST
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Glenna,
Just got a chance to see your picture on your site.  You really look great!!!
Thanks for the view.
Lenore
P.S.  Is that really your hair?  If so, it is beautiful!!! 
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From owner-glass Tue Nov  3 11:08:49 1998
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X-Path: detroit.freenet.org!ae479
From: ae479@detroit.freenet.org (Sue Becker)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: diamond crete
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:53:51 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199811031853.NAA28886@detroit.freenet.org>
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A friend wishes to add ground glass from his grinder to the diamond
crete mix in order to acquire some glitter to the concrete background.
Two questions: 1. Would ground glass provide any glitter and 2. Would
the coolant affect the integrity of the diamond crete down the road.

Would be happy to hear from anyone who has any experience with diamond
crete.  Thanks.

Reply-To: ae479@detroit.freenet.org
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From owner-glass Tue Nov  3 11:45:06 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Test- You can just delete this
Date: Tue Nov  3 11:05:22 1998
Message-ID: <1998Nov4.84122.0>
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Haven't gotten anything from Bungi today so I'm just testing the link.
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From owner-glass Tue Nov  3 12:10:47 1998
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From: "Respess, Janet Crocket" <RESPESSJ@MAIL.ECU.EDU>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Source needed
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 14:21:40 -0500 
Message-ID: <1998Nov3.92140.0>
Precedence: bulk

I need a mail order source for gemstones/faceted stones that I use for angel
heads.... 

Can anyone point me in a good direction?

Thanks all!
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From owner-glass Tue Nov  3 12:39:49 1998
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From: "Charles Spitzer" <Charles_Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: "glass" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Fw: glass class prices
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:37:37 -0700
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don't overlook your local community college when looking for classes. i
started in stained glass by taking an 8 weeknight, 2 hours/night course for
$25. of course, they didn't have materials, books, etc to buy on hand, but
that was easily obtained at the local store after the first night.

regards,
charlie
-----Original Message-----
From: alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Friday, October 30, 1998 4:18 AM
Subject: Re: glass class prices


>
>> I live in an out of the way part of the world and consider myself lucky
>> to have a stained glass studio/supplier in this area.  Her classes are
>> $8 for a 2 hour class, but the classes usually go on for however long,
>> usually 3 hours with no extra charge.
>
>I've always wondered why retailers don't offer *free classes in order
>to draw people in. If class size were limited, that would make them
>all the more desireable to those who didn't get in. (The "Studio 54"
>approach.) Since they would have to buy their supplies and tools,
>that'd be the profit center. At $4/hour, as you say, Carol, your
>retailer's not only smart, but loves glass as much as you do. You're
>lucky to have such a sensible, sharing supplier close at hand.
>
>Albert
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>

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From owner-glass Tue Nov  3 12:40:15 1998
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'GLASS@BUNGI.COM'" <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: TOO Quiet - Want Another Pattern?
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 14:55:30 -0500
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Okay,

You have been too quiet this afternoon. All I can hear is the scoring of 
glass and the sizzle of hot flux.

Can I interest you in another of my patterns designs? The latest is Mr. 
Peanut (Planters). I don't really do any glass...I just draw pictures. <G> 
This one is pretty realistic.

E-mail if you want it and I'll do the scan tonight.

Linda Campbell
Suffolk, VA
Home of Planters Peanuts
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From owner-glass Tue Nov  3 13:11:05 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Sue Becker <ae479@detroit.freenet.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: diamond crete
Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 13:33:07 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov3.7337.0>
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Precedence: bulk

> A friend wishes to add ground glass from his grinder to the diamond
> crete mix in order to acquire some glitter to the concrete background.
> Two questions: 1. Would ground glass provide any glitter and 2. Would
> the coolant affect the integrity of the diamond crete down the road.
> 
> Would be happy to hear from anyone who has any experience with diamond
> crete.  Thanks.

First of all, I dont use diamond crete but mix my own concrete using
portland white cement, fine light sand, and industrial blast sand.
I have read alot about concrete and visit with a decorative concrete pro
frequently.  ***One of the big things with concrete**** is *always* use
clean water, suitable for drinking.  I wouldnt add anything to the
diamond crete other than what the directions say.  After all it is just
concrete with some admixtures and color.  The addition would just
intefere with the integrity of the mix.

As far as the glass from the grinder, mine is less than attractive, and
I wouldnt add it to anything but the trash.  It would in my opinion be
like adding mud to your cement.  

Tulsa Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Tue Nov  3 13:37:38 1998
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X-Path: netcom.ca!shmilly
From: bill <shmilly@netcom.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Source needed
Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 16:24:52 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19981103162452.007999e0@popd.netcom.ca>
References: <<1998Nov3.92140.0>>
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At 02:21 PM 03/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I need a mail order source for gemstones/faceted stones that I use for angel
>heads.... 
>
>Can anyone point me in a good direction?
>
>Thanks all!
 

a good source for gemstones/faceted stones may be found at
http://riogrande.com/    ....when i was into goldsmithing i found them to
be an invaluable source of jewellers tools and supplies (as well as
gemstones)...they are really quite friendly!.....might also find other
items there to incorporate into your work as they also carry different
types of beads etc.........Bill

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From owner-glass Tue Nov  3 14:08:18 1998
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Subject: RE: source needed
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:36:36 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov3.213636.0>
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Warner Crivallerro has a good selection of faceted jewels at competitive
prices.  I buy from them regularly.  Kathi P.
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From owner-glass Tue Nov  3 14:37:52 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: "Respess, Janet Crocket" <RESPESSJ@MAIL.ECU.EDU>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Source needed
Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 17:22:34 -0500
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Respess, Janet Crocket wrote:
> 
> I need a mail order source for gemstones/faceted stones that I use for angel
> heads....
> 
> Can anyone point me in a good direction?
> 
> Thanks all!
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


delphi and warner. unless you want semi-precious stones then go with
rio-grande - (the jewelry supply people - i think that's their name). 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Tue Nov  3 17:19:47 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Source needed
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 19:30:03 -0500
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Message text written by "Respess, Janet Crocket"
>I need a mail order source for gemstones/faceted stones that I use for
angel
heads....<

Almost all stained glass retail stores carry or can order
faceted glass jewels which can be used for angel heads.
Many also carry "angel heads" which have facial features
sandblasted into a clear nugget.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Tue Nov  3 19:48:59 1998
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: TOO Quiet - Want Another Pattern?
Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 22:25:15 -0500
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References: <<1998Nov3.95530.0>>
Precedence: bulk



Linda Campbell wrote:

> Okay,
>
> You have been too quiet this afternoon. All I can hear is the scoring of
> glass and the sizzle of hot flux.

Those of us in the USA have been shell shocked from the non-stop barrage of
political advertising.  But it's over now.  We can blink our eyes, shake our
heads, get back to work.

I found an old sheet of copper in the back of my cabinet, so I'm experimenting
with cutting filigree...and not doing that well...so I'll practice until I run
out... I've been using it to define holly leaves from single pieces of glass.

Dorothy K

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From owner-glass Tue Nov  3 20:13:38 1998
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X-Path: freepress.com!newman
From: "Heather Newman" <newman@freepress.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Big door is done! And sea shells??
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:32:05 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov3.17325.0>
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Hey, that big door that I was pestering folks about (reinforcing questions,
etc.) is finally done, thanks to the hubby, and it looks great. Big Frank
Lloyd Wright-inspired pattern in nudity-shielding seedy and water glass with
two clusters of diamond bevels (think wheat) and an interior bevel border.
:-) (This door is at the end of our hallway on the second floor, opening out
onto the three-walls-of-windows sunroom. We built the door to obstruct the
view, but not the light, since this hallway is our route from the bedroom to
the bathroom...) Thanks a lot, everybody, for your help. Now if I could just
get up the guts to make that nasty-looking putty recipe for the few interior
zinc came bits...

And while I was in Florida recently, I picked up some interested translucent
shells. They're pretty delicate, but I was pondering the idea of putting
them into some suncatchers. Any experiences on whether these things will
survive copper foil soldering temperatures?

Cheers,

Heather

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From owner-glass Tue Nov  3 20:26:45 1998
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: Sue Becker <ae479@detroit.freenet.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: diamond crete & Jewel source
Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 22:35:51 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov3.173551.0>
References: <<199811031853.NAA28886@detroit.freenet.org>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

I don't think any of my ground glass is very 'glittery", so I would try
to add some real glitter or the very fine stuff called 'Diamond Dust'
available from craft stores or wholesale craft catalogs like Enterprise,
or National Artcraft.  A search on the internet for 'Craft Suppliers'
will turn up bunches of sources. I get lots of great ideas, try them,
some work, some don't.  Give it a try.

Mix up a very small batch and see what it looks like when dry. Both of
the above catalogs also have beads, angel heads, acrylic jewels, glass
jewels etc. They may have web sites too, but to tired tonight to go
searching.

Also Rio Grand (they have web site) for 'Real Gemstones' and jewelry
tools, Fire Mountain Gems in Oregon, Gesswien in the east coast, Alpha
Jewelry Supply, and Swest Jewelry Supply Co. East coast I think.  Most
may have web sites.

Right in the middle of Florida's Craft Fair Season, Glass cutter going
like crazy.  Cuts all over, so well bloody christened projects.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations


Sue Becker wrote:
> 
> A friend wishes to add ground glass from his grinder to the diamond
> crete mix in order to acquire some glitter to the concrete background.
> Two questions: 1. Would ground glass provide any glitter and 2. Would
> the coolant affect the integrity of the diamond crete down the road.
> 
> Would be happy to hear from anyone who has any experience with diamond
> crete.  Thanks.
> 
> Reply-To: ae479@detroit.freenet.org
> ----
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From owner-glass Tue Nov  3 23:28:27 1998
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From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: This is really for Elisabeth
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:20:05 +0800
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I second that request. I can't have the joy of seeing you in person.

shakeel@tm.net.my
Shakeel Abedi
Rainbow Stained Glass
104, Jalan Mersing
86000 Kluang
Malaysia
Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313
-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Saturday, October 31, 1998 5:46 AM
Subject: This is really for Elisabeth


>I would really like to see your class on the English Method.  Anyway you
>could video tape it(for a slight compensation) for the rest of us who
>can not afford the trip?
>Shirley B
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>

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From owner-glass Wed Nov  4 03:22:43 1998
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'Family Account'" <shad@mail2.nai.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Filigree: Was too Quiet
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 06:14:52 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov4.11452.0>
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Dorothy,

How are you cutting the fliligree in the copper? What are you using?

LInda

 
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From owner-glass Wed Nov  4 03:58:16 1998
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Subject: Re: Big door is done! And sea shells??
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 06:25:27 EST
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Heather,
Congratulations!!!  How wonderful that you have completed such a large
undertaking!!!  You certainly should feel mighty proud of yourself!  How about
showing us a photo VIA the bungi photo gallary that Barefoot Daniel has so
generously put together for us?!
Lenore
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
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Subject: Kokopelli in Glass
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 07:48:42 -0500
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http://www.stanford.edu/~dubois/stained_glass/projects/koko/koko.htm
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From owner-glass Wed Nov  4 05:59:19 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: glass saw?
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:40:40 -0500
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Message text written by "Ron and Wendy Larson"
>1) any chance of seeing a picture of this piece? I am very into horses,
esp.
since I own one and he is the subject of much of my glass work.>

I'll photograph the piece today.  Actually, the tiny glass horses are par=
t
of
a desktop carrosel under development by one of my installation carpenters=
,
Tom Walter.  It's very, very clever, and the tiny glass horses are really=

quite nice going up and down and around and around.

<2) what did you mean by tjis comment/why I am curious?   " My stained
glass
panels and lampshades would never have anything like this designed into
them
(unless I was attempting a Bob Oddy thingie) " I just switched  from an
Inland saw to this Taurus 2 a month ago and have done all kinds of work o=
n
it. I love it. I have done some really intricate pieces and some regular
everyday kind of stuff. So was curious why you dont use for all your
work/if
you have had problems with it in some areas etc.<

The thin lines of the horses legs and the extreme curves in the tiny hors=
es
almost guarantee breakage if I were to try to foil them and put them into=

a copper-foiled panel or lamp.  As Dani Greer says, glass does want to
be handled keeping in mind that it truely does not like deep inside curve=
s
and thin sections.  These will just break over time due to internal
stresses,
and there is really nothing you can do about that unless you keep that in=

mind and don't design these into your original cartoon.  So...I don't (or=

at
least try to keep them at a minimum).  As to the Bob Oddy reference, he
gets around some of these problems by doing glass overlay.  There is a
really good explaination of his glass overlay techniques in one of last
year's IGGA "Common Ground:Glass" magazine.  I interviewed him when
he was at the Warner-Crivellaro Glass Extravaganza (or whatever they call=

it) in 1997.

As to the Taurus II.2 ring saw...I do love it for specific applications,
such as
cutting out really tricky cuts.  But I do not use it as a substitute for
accurate
cutting/grozing and using the regular grinder.  The ring saws are great f=
or
curves, but not at all good for straight lines.  Plus, they are slow.  An=
d
I do
production work - I do stained glass for a living, so time is critical to=

my
profitability.  I am fastest and most accurate using the regular pistol
grip
Toyo cutter, grozers and my Inland grinder.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Wed Nov  4 09:36:44 1998
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From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: she sells sea shells by the sea shore
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 12:12:16 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov4.171216.0>
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Hey Heather,

Yes, you can copper foil and solder around sea shells, I have done it with
both whole and "sliced" shells.  No problem with the heat of soldering.

Good luck,

Pat
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From owner-glass Wed Nov  4 11:31:34 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Heather Newman <newman@freepress.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Big door is done! And sea shells??
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 10:18:26 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov4.51826.0>
References: <<1998Nov3.17325.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Heather Newman wrote:
> 
> Hey, that big door that I was pestering folks about (reinforcing questions,
> etc.) is finally done, thanks to the hubby, and it looks great. Big Frank
> Lloyd Wright-inspired pattern in nudity-shielding seedy and water glass with
> two clusters of diamond bevels (think wheat) and an interior bevel border.
> :-) (This door is at the end of our hallway on the second floor, opening out
> onto the three-walls-of-windows sunroom. We built the door to obstruct the
> view, but not the light, since this hallway is our route from the bedroom to
> the bathroom...) Thanks a lot, everybody, for your help. Now if I could just
> get up the guts to make that nasty-looking putty recipe for the few interior
> zinc came bits...
> 
> And while I was in Florida recently, I picked up some interested translucent
> shells. They're pretty delicate, but I was pondering the idea of putting
> them into some suncatchers. Any experiences on whether these things will
> survive copper foil soldering temperatures?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Heather
> 
> ----
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the only thing shells may not survive real well (and that's mostle sand
dollars), is the patina. i've always coated my shells with clear nail
polish. but becareful of it burning when soldering. foiling them is bit
tricky. but i've used shells before. and i've seen them used in almost
every SG application.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Wed Nov  4 16:44:52 1998
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Filigree: Was too Quiet
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 18:52:14 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov4.135214.0>
References: <<01BE07BA.70CAC140.lcbell@memach.com>>
Precedence: bulk

I'm cutting the copper with a sharp craft knife.  It cuts okay.  I've
tried on the glass (scratched the glass once and had a hard time peeling
out the pieces.  I've tried cutting out then putting the copper on the
glass and it is difficult to be accurate in placement and to keep the
smaller lines together.  I need to practice!!!!  (Like I have lots of
time!  Well, as I can.)

Dorothy

Linda Campbell wrote:

> Dorothy,
>
> How are you cutting the fliligree in the copper? What are you using?
>
> LInda
>



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From owner-glass Wed Nov  4 19:50:13 1998
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From: "Doug Parrott" <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
To: "bungi group" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: praying hands pattern
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:19:58 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov4.111958.0>
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Marilyn,

Thank you for the praying hands pattern.  I can't wait to make one up.

Cheryl



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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  she sells sea shells by the sea shore
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:31:13 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov5.33113.0>
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In a message dated 11/4/98 12:38:10 PM, CncptThnkr@aol.com wrote:

>Yes, you can copper foil and solder around sea shells, I have done it with
>both whole and "sliced" shells.  No problem with the heat of soldering.

Doesn't the flux (acid) attack the shells (mostly calcium carbonate,
alkaline)? Not that you'd leave the flux on for any length of time, but since
shells can be pretty porous, I'd be concerned about the flux soaking in.

Specifically, I'm thinking about incorporating some sand dollars (*very*
porous) into a piece at some point. Mike says he uses clear nail polish to
protect the shells. I'm thinking about trying a matte finish lacquer (which
should also strengthen the shells somewhat because it will soak in). Has
anyone done this? I don't want to use nail polish on sand dollars because I
want them to keep their non-shiny natural look.


Sparks
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  TOO Quiet - Want Another Pattern?
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:31:23 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov5.33123.0>
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Also sprach Linda, who claims she doesn't really do any glass, she just draws
pictures:

>You have been too quiet this afternoon. All I can hear is the scoring of 
>glass and the sizzle of hot flux.

There's a very good reason for that:

'TIS THE SEASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now get back to work! You still have some skin on your fingers!

:-)


Sparks, who lost count of how many angels we made today..... 9? 13?
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From owner-glass Wed Nov  4 21:50:19 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <Witchdoc3@aol.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: sand dollars/echinoderms
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:21:58 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov4.132158.0>
Precedence: bulk

6 plus years volunteering at the aquarium....

I would TEST one with flux and a HOT iron. They may even smell bad when you
apply heat!

They are related to sea stars and urchins, and have an exoskeleton (bristly
feeling) and will probably break down.

enjoy, H



weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard   best lamps on the "net"
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Witchdoc3@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: TOO Quiet - Want Another Pattern?
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 00:29:27 -0600
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> Now get back to work! You still have some skin on your fingers!
> 
> :-)
> 
> 
> Sparks, who lost count of how many angels we made today..... 9? 13?


I wish I did!  
Tulsa Suzanne *who just sold her first stained glass stone for $75. ;O)
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Wed Nov  4 23:05:18 1998
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To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: ?'s beading edges/chain/beveled glass windows
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 00:20:25 -0600
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I got a book of fairy designs that talks about beading the edges and no =
reference to using lead cane of any type. I have always used u channel =
and have looked in all the books I can find about beading edges without =
a single reference. In looking at the pictures of the finished products =
in the book, it is obvious there is no cane. Can anyone give me some =
guidance ?=20

What type of chain should I buy for hanging stained glass? I was using =
fishing line until I saw the message a few daus ago about line wearing =
out in sunlight and causing pieces to fall and break. So no more fishing =
line for me. Is there a certain weight or guage of chain or something =
else special to look for (especially if I patina?).=20

Last question? I want to make a hexagon window in stained glass - about =
1 1/2 ft across semi protected by porch cover from elements. I want to =
do stained glass. My husband wants beveled and his reason is he thinks =
it is more insulated/secure etc. because it is thicker. I think he is =
concerned about stability and loss of heat/ac. This is in an entrance =
way but not on the door.=20

Thanks ! Also looking for any hints on trying glass engraving cheaply =
and on creating open sections within a segment of glass. I have a vision =
of a scenic piece with open spaces where the clouds would be to hang a =
little prism in...Anyone trying this?  What type of drill do I need to =
drill into glass that would allow me to drill out the whole section =
(maybe 2-3 inches in size)?



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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I got a book of fairy designs that =
talks about=20
beading the edges and no reference to using lead cane of any type. I =
have always=20
used u channel and have looked in all the books I can find about beading =
edges=20
without a single reference. In looking at the pictures of the finished =
products=20
in the book, it is obvious there is no cane. Can anyone give me some =
guidance ?=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>What type of chain should I buy for =
hanging=20
stained glass? I was using fishing line until I saw the message a few =
daus ago=20
about line wearing out in sunlight and causing pieces to fall and break. =
So no=20
more fishing line for me. Is there a certain weight or guage of chain or =

something else special to look for (especially if I patina?). =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Last question? I want to make a hexagon window in =
stained=20
glass - about 1 1/2 ft across semi protected by porch cover from =
elements. I=20
want to do stained glass. My husband wants beveled and his reason is he =
thinks=20
it is more insulated/secure etc. because it is thicker. I think he is =
concerned=20
about stability and loss of heat/ac. This is in an entrance way but not =
on the=20
door. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks ! Also looking for any hints on trying glass =
engraving=20
cheaply and on creating open sections within a segment of glass. I have =
a vision=20
of a scenic piece with open spaces where the clouds would be to hang a =
little=20
prism in...Anyone trying this?&nbsp; What type of drill do I need to =
drill into=20
glass that would allow me to drill out the whole section (maybe 2-3 =
inches in=20
size)?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE0852.15647C40--


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From owner-glass Thu Nov  5 00:01:06 1998
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Calling Canada Bungi Members
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 23:17:44 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov4.151744.0>
Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,

Cheryl Parrott and I will be traveling to Victoria around the 20th of
November to catch Carol Swanns super last show and help her out a bit.
See Carol has been ill as of late and yep she will probably kill me for
telling but oh well *s*. She has 3 big shows in November, the last one
Cheryl and I get to help her out on. We offered our help, Carol would
never ask she's not a weenie ya know. *s*

So if there are any bungians in the Victoria area we would love to see
you! Wanna help Carol out? Then e-mail me and I'll let you know how. And
Carol don't be upset over this e-mail, what are friends for *s*.

See ya,

Pam *sm*

--
*********************************
The Stained Glass Artists
Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director:
Advertising & Marketing


Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

Join our live glass chat!
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.igga.org/


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From owner-glass Thu Nov  5 05:20:20 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  sand dollars/echinoderms
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 07:49:19 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov5.124919.0>
Precedence: bulk


Also sprach Howard, after "6 plus years volunteering at the aquarium...."

>I would TEST one with flux and a HOT iron.

Yup, I'm going to do just that. Fortunately I have a couple of broken ones
that I won't cry over if they get messed up, so I can experiment.

>They may even smell bad when you apply heat!
>
>They are related to sea stars and urchins, and have an exoskeleton (bristly
>feeling) and will probably break down.

These are several years old and decomposed right down to the shell; by this
time I shouldn't think they'll smell like I'm cooking the underside of the
dock of the bay when the heat hits them.

So I guess the only way to find out is to get out there and do the experiment!
[cue the Boris Karloff voice - quite a stretch for a high soprano]: "VEL-come
to my la-BOH-ra-to-ry........."


Sparks
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  5 06:05:26 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  ?'s beading edges/chain/beveled glass windows
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 07:49:16 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov5.124916.0>
Precedence: bulk


larsonrw@pdq.net's enquiring mind wants to know:

>What type of chain should I buy for hanging stained glass? I was using
>fishing line until I saw the message a few days ago about line wearing
>out in sunlight and causing pieces to fall and break. So no more fishing
>line for me. Is there a certain weight or guage of chain or something
>else special to look for (especially if I patina?).

You can get several kinds/colors of lightweight chain at your local hardware
store. Lots of people use "16 pound jack chain." (The "16 pound" part is its
safe load rating.) It comes in zinc finish (which does take patina), black,
and even iridescent (although I have no idea why; it's rather strange
looking).

(BTW....... your message came through with a dark purple background. I managed
to read it, but you may want to check your settings & make sure you're sending
things in black and white. Thanks!)


Sparks
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  5 06:27:02 1998
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From: Glasbug@aol.com
To: bird_cage@email.msn.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: praying hands pattern
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:09:31 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov5.13931.0>
Precedence: bulk

Cheryl, 
You are very welcome.  I'm looking forward to making one myself, as I haven't
done one yet.
Marilyn
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  5 07:27:49 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Witchdoc3@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: she sells sea shells by the sea shore
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 10:08:37 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov5.5837.0>
References: <<1998Nov5.33113.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 11/4/98 12:38:10 PM, CncptThnkr@aol.com wrote:
> 
> >Yes, you can copper foil and solder around sea shells, I have done it with
> >both whole and "sliced" shells.  No problem with the heat of soldering.
> 
> Doesn't the flux (acid) attack the shells (mostly calcium carbonate,
> alkaline)? Not that you'd leave the flux on for any length of time, but since
> shells can be pretty porous, I'd be concerned about the flux soaking in.
> 
> Specifically, I'm thinking about incorporating some sand dollars (*very*
> porous) into a piece at some point. Mike says he uses clear nail polish to
> protect the shells. I'm thinking about trying a matte finish lacquer (which
> should also strengthen the shells somewhat because it will soak in). Has
> anyone done this? I don't want to use nail polish on sand dollars because I
> want them to keep their non-shiny natural look.
> 
> Sparks
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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for sand dollars you have to do that. flux should'nt hurt the shells.
the patina will make the sand dollars turn blue however. so coat both
sides real well. thei will also seal in the smell. i was almost ready to
buy a bunch of sand dollars at a garage sale. but as soon as the sun hit
them they started smelling fishy. i probably should have bought them
anyway, i could have bleached then sealed them... oh well..

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  5 07:51:10 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: ?'s beading edges/chain/beveled glass windows
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:54:24 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov5.45424.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by "Ron and Wendy Larson"
>Thanks ! Also looking for any hints on trying glass engraving cheaply =3D=

and on creating open sections within a segment of glass. I have a vision =
=3D
of a scenic piece with open spaces where the clouds would be to hang a =3D=

little prism in...Anyone trying this?  What type of drill do I need to =3D=

drill into glass that would allow me to drill out the whole section =3D
(maybe 2-3 inches in size)?<

Why not just design the open spaces into your cartoon?  I've done
that lots of times.  Design in a tiny hook from which to suspend
your crystal.  And, BTW, I still use extra-strong fishing line to
suspend lightweight items, such as these crystals.  No chain.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  5 09:01:01 1998
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: TOO Quiet - Want Another Pattern?
Date: Thu Nov  5 08:40:56 1998
Message-ID: <1998Nov6.61656.0>
Precedence: bulk

Sparks

You get to do them one at a time??
I have an angel assembly line going.
As soon as people hear about my hobby they start hinting.
Whatever happen to that quaint old notion of buying gifts?????

Actually the hinters are not a problem. If you ignore them they go away
in a huff.
It is the people who don't hint, but obviously like what they see that
keep me busy.

Vic


		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Witchdoc3@aol.com [mailto:Witchdoc3@aol.com]
		Sent:	Wednesday, November 04, 1998 10:31 PM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	Re:  TOO Quiet - Want Another Pattern?


		Also sprach Linda, who claims she doesn't really do any
glass, she just draws
		pictures:

		>You have been too quiet this afternoon. All I can hear
is the scoring of 
		>glass and the sizzle of hot flux.

		There's a very good reason for that:

		'TIS THE SEASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

		Now get back to work! You still have some skin on your
fingers!

		:-)


		Sparks, who lost count of how many angels we made
today..... 9? 13?
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  5 09:37:27 1998
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X-Path: MAIL.ECU.EDU!RESPESSJ
From: "Respess, Janet Crocket" <RESPESSJ@MAIL.ECU.EDU>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: ANGELS
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:10:05 -0500 
Message-ID: <1998Nov5.7105.0>
Precedence: bulk

I am a fan of angels too..... anyone have any simple patterns to share?

Janet
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  5 10:47:41 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "glass@bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: hinters
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:11:21 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov5.21121.0>
Precedence: bulk

Even, now, after 18+ years of messing around with glass, I STILL get an
occasional "hint", that if it does not cost TOO much a family member
(usually an in-law, but not limited to) would be willing to deign to get one
of my pieces. I have offers to pay for the glass (again if it not too much),
but because I am primarily at home, labor is FREE!

Like I care, but because I do not go OUT to work, this is NOT a real
job.....Old school thinking of which my father (long deceased) always was
guilty of. General opening of any conversation was, "did I get a job, yet".

just a rumination, H

weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard   best lamps on the "net"
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Thu Nov  5 12:34:11 1998
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X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy
From: Bob the Dinosaur <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: ?'s beading edges/chain/beveled glass windows
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 13:03:29 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov5.8329.0>
References: <<1998Nov5.124916.0>>
Organization: Cox's Mower Service
Precedence: bulk

I got an empty message, due to the fact that the original was sent as -

Content-Type: 
                multipart/alternative;

To the original author - please check the setting on your email software
so the you send 'text' or 'plain text' anything can/will be garbled
someway once sent out by the mailing list process. TIA

Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote:
> 
> larsonrw@pdq.net's enquiring mind wants to know:
> 
> >What type of chain should I buy for hanging stained glass? I was using
> >fishing line until I saw the message a few days ago about line wearing
> >out in sunlight and causing pieces to fall and break. So no more fishing
> >line for me. Is there a certain weight or guage of chain or something
> >else special to look for (especially if I patina?).
> 
> You can get several kinds/colors of lightweight chain at your local hardware
> store. Lots of people use "16 pound jack chain." (The "16 pound" part is its
> safe load rating.) It comes in zinc finish (which does take patina), black,
> and even iridescent (although I have no idea why; it's rather strange
> looking).
> 
> (BTW....... your message came through with a dark purple background. I managed
> to read it, but you may want to check your settings & make sure you're sending
> things in black and white. Thanks!)
> 
> Sparks
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Adults are obsolete children
		Theodore Geisel

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From owner-glass Thu Nov  5 13:35:38 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "glass@bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: angel joke, sorry!
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:24:50 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov5.22450.0>
Precedence: bulk

Did you hear about the Angel who traded in her harp for an upright (fill in
your version of the instrument here). Hint, has pipes and a keyboard.

could not resist..........

weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard   best lamps on the "net"
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Thu Nov  5 14:35:03 1998
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X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye
From: "Kaye Sodt" <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Not glass, humor (?)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:11:16 CST 6CDT
Message-ID: <199811052210.QAA23961@relay.acns.nwu.edu>
Organization: GSA-ORSP
Precedence: bulk

Sheesh!  I was just writing this and in comes a joke from Howard!   
Can we still blame El Nino?  It's gotta be an atmospheric 
disturbance....
-----------------------

Can't resist--somebody sent me this and it had such a ring of truth. 
(I won't reproduce the entire thing, but....)

Q:  How many internet mailing list subscribers does it take to 
change a light bulb?

A:  1,331

1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mailing list that the 
light bulb has been changed.

14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the 
light bulb should have been changed differently.

7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs.

27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing 
light bulbs.

53 to flame the spell checkers.

156 to write to the list administrator complaining about the light 
bulb discussion and its inappropriateness to this mail list.

109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and to please take 
this email exchange to alt.lite.bulb.

111 to defend the post to this list saying that we all use light bulbs 
and therefore the posts **are** relevant to this mail list.

33 to quote all posts to date, including all headers and footers, and 
then add "Me Too."

12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing because they 
cannot handle the light bulb controversy.

Etc.
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  5 15:04:34 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Mosaics
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 17:46:58 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov5.124658.0>
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Message text written by INTERNET:gunnx4@ix.netcom.com
>Bummer!  Were you able to salvage the glass?  I have 3-4 molds coming
today, and have 5 to pour this evening.  My arms will be tired from
mixing by hand!
  How long do you leave yours in?  Do you use DiamondCrete or concrete. =

I keep mine in *about 12 hours.<

No, I didn't salvage the glass, as they were made up of
scraps anyway.  And besides, I can better spend my time
building a new one.

I do not use DiamondCrete or concrete.  I use Rapid-Set (r) which is
a special non-shrinking rapid-drying concrete and grout mixture.
I can unmold in 2 hours, and it is finished curing in 24 hours.  This
way I can do 2 complete 14" stepping stones in a day.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  5 15:32:26 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Angels by the dozen
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 17:46:45 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov5.124645.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by INTERNET:daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
>Sparks

You get to do them one at a time??<

H*ll no.  We do them by the bushel-full.  Actually, we do about
10 a day.  Trace 'em all, cut 'em all, grind 'em all, foil 'em all,
tack 'em all down, solder 'em all, clean 'em all.  That's the
way to do angels!

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  5 15:48:55 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: freebie angels
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 17:46:55 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov5.124655.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by "Respess, Janet Crocket"
>I am a fan of angels too..... anyone have any simple patterns to share?<=


A free simple angel pattern by (blush) myself is available
in a back issue of IGGA "Common Ground:Glass" magazine.
Web site  http://www.igga.org/

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  5 16:11:23 1998
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: ?'s beading edges/chain/beveled glass windows
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 17:41:42 -0500
Message-ID: <199811052245.RAA25888@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk


>
>I got a book of fairy designs that talks about beading the edges and no =
>reference to using lead cane of any type. I have always used u channel =
>and have looked in all the books I can find about beading edges without =
>a single reference. In looking at the pictures of the finished products =
>in the book, it is obvious there is no cane. Can anyone give me some =
>guidance ?=20

Hold your finished work so the parts you want to bead are horizontal. It 
would help to use a 63-37 solder since it sets up very fast. And lower 
the temp on your iron a bit if you can - solder should be almost syrupy. 
Take a bit of solder on your iron and dab it on top of the horizontal 
seam. Slowly dab, let that set, then dab beside that, let it set, etc. 
Always turn your work so the edge you're beading is horizontal. Takes 
some time but should give a rounded bead to the edge of your work. 

Suzy
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  5 16:20:39 1998
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From: Romajoco@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Small tiger pattern
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 18:00:42 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov5.23042.0>
Precedence: bulk

Need help locating a small tiger for a pattern for a LSU stepping stone.  So
far I have not had any success trying to find one on the net.

Any suggestions.....LSU memorabilla shows the tigers face....I would prefer to
cut out the whole tiger (real small) with my Taurus saw.

Margie
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  5 17:10:00 1998
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From: Harry Van Dyke <hvandyke@cgocable.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: ANGELS
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 19:52:29 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov5.145229.0>
References: <<1998Nov5.7105.0>>
Precedence: bulk


We love angels too and have a few very nice patterns. I am new to the
group. How do you normally share patterns. Do you scan them and send as
attachments to emails? Or do you use snail mail?
I would love to get some different patterns.
Karen


"Respess, Janet Crocket" wrote:

> I am a fan of angels too..... anyone have any simple patterns to share?
>
> Janet
> ----
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  5 17:40:53 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Honey
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:21:08 +0000
Message-ID: <199811060028.AAA10928@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Linda,

Since you and Albert ('n others) talked about bee-keeping and 
bee-stings, quite by co-incidence my trusted Sunday tome The Sunday 
Times brought out yet another article, which - would you believe it - 
dealt with bee venom as a cure. The title of it is "Bee venom may 
relieve arthritis and MS". Interested anyone???
Luckily, it's a short article, so I will type it and save on floppy 
disk, rather than trying to scan it (and then Suzanne Albright had to 
insert all the missing bits of another article I found, once she 
received the original hard copy). It appeared in The Sunday Times 
Innovation section on Sunday 1st November..... in case folks Across 
the Pond happen to just pick it up .... you know.... the way one 
does....
Take care now
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

> 
> Elisabeth,
> 
> I hope there will be an overflow of honey. Yum.
> I am amazed at the diversity of interests of staind glass workers too. One 
> of the locals here not only does stained glass but also designs and sews 
> costumes for the opera. Now that's diverse.
> 
 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  5 17:41:57 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon
From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: ?'s beading edges/chain/beveled glass windows
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 19:40:22 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov6.04022.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone - This advice about using the 63-37 solder is very good advice.  I
was having trouble getting the bottom edge (with wire) beaded up on my lamp.
Solder kept running through or dropping off because of the wire.  I remembered
reading about using 63-37 for beading and tried it along with a lower temp tip
on my Weller 100.  Worked great!
Brenda


In a message dated 11/5/98 7:12:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, suzy@ComCAT.COM
writes:

<< Hold your finished work so the parts you want to bead are horizontal. It 
 would help to use a 63-37 solder since it sets up very fast. And lower 
 the temp on your iron a bit if you can - solder should be almost syrupy. 
 Take a bit of solder on your iron and dab it on top of the horizontal 
 seam. Slowly dab, let that set, then dab beside that, let it set, etc. 
 Always turn your work so the edge you're beading is horizontal. Takes 
 some time but should give a rounded bead to the edge of your work. >>
----
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  5 18:10:07 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Not glass, humor (?)
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 01:17:19 +0000
Message-ID: <199811060124.BAA12185@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,
Blame El Nino!!!!!!!
E 'n T in UK

> Sheesh!  I was just writing this and in comes a joke from Howard!   
> Can we still blame El Nino?  It's gotta be an atmospheric 
> disturbance....
> -----------------------
> 
> Can't resist--somebody sent me this and it had such a ring of truth. 
> (I won't reproduce the entire thing, but....)
> 
> Q:  How many internet mailing list subscribers does it take to 
> change a light bulb?
> 
> A:  1,331
> 
> 1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mailing list that the 
> light bulb has been changed.
> 
> 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the 
> light bulb should have been changed differently.
> 
> 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs.
> 
> 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing 
> light bulbs.
> 
> 53 to flame the spell checkers.
> 
> 156 to write to the list administrator complaining about the light 
> bulb discussion and its inappropriateness to this mail list.
> 
> 109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and to please take 
> this email exchange to alt.lite.bulb.
> 
> 111 to defend the post to this list saying that we all use light bulbs 
> and therefore the posts **are** relevant to this mail list.
> 
> 33 to quote all posts to date, including all headers and footers, and 
> then add "Me Too."
> 
> 12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing because they 
> cannot handle the light bulb controversy.
> 
> Etc.
 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  5 18:32:38 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Angels by the dozen
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 01:17:19 +0000
Message-ID: <199811060124.BAA12181@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Christie,
So instead of counting sheep to fall asleep, you're counting glass 
angels....
I hope you're making sure to get them over the fence safely! ;->
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
> 
> H*ll no.  We do them by the bushel-full.  Actually, we do about
> 10 a day.  Trace 'em all, cut 'em all, grind 'em all, foil 'em all,
> tack 'em all down, solder 'em all, clean 'em all.  That's the
> way to do angels!
> 
 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  5 18:42:03 1998
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Kaye Sodt <kaye@GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Not glass, humor (?)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 17:21:08 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1998Nov5.9218.0>
References: <<199811052210.QAA23961@relay.acns.nwu.edu>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Kaye:  Of course this was glass humor.  I for one enjoyed it.  It
reminds me of the endless Aggie jokes that used to go around in Arkansas.
PJ

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From owner-glass Thu Nov  5 18:58:20 1998
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: ?'s beading edges/chain/beveled glass windows
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 20:33:37 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov5.153337.0>
Precedence: bulk

Another simple way is to solder beaded chain to the piece.  Solder it all
around, clean and patina, if you want.

Arnold Schneider    Creekside Creations










-----Original Message-----
From: suzy@comcat.com <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: glass bungi line <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: ?'s beading edges/chain/beveled glass windows


>
>>
>>I got a book of fairy designs that talks about beading the edges and no =
>>reference to using lead cane of any type. I have always used u channel =
>>and have looked in all the books I can find about beading edges without =
>>a single reference. In looking at the pictures of the finished products =
>>in the book, it is obvious there is no cane. Can anyone give me some =
>>guidance ?=20
>
>Hold your finished work so the parts you want to bead are horizontal. It
>would help to use a 63-37 solder since it sets up very fast. And lower
>the temp on your iron a bit if you can - solder should be almost syrupy.
>Take a bit of solder on your iron and dab it on top of the horizontal
>seam. Slowly dab, let that set, then dab beside that, let it set, etc.
>Always turn your work so the edge you're beading is horizontal. Takes
>some time but should give a rounded bead to the edge of your work.
>
>Suzy
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

----
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  5 20:44:21 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Not glass, humor (?)
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:14:10 +0000
Message-ID: <199811060421.EAA23081@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Hey!!!!
You leave Toby out of it.
Not guilty!!
Just because he enjoys a leg of lamb.... or is it old mutton!? And is 
it IRISH??
GRrrrrrOwl!
E 'n T in UK

> i think we should blame el toby!!
> <g>

> >Hi All,
> >Blame El Nino!!!!!!!
> >E 'n T in UK
> >
> >> Sheesh!  I was just writing this and in comes a joke from Howard!   
> >> Can we still blame El Nino?  It's gotta be an atmospheric 
> >> disturbance....
> >> -----------------------
> >> 
> >> Can't resist--somebody sent me this and it had such a ring of truth. 
> >> (I won't reproduce the entire thing, but....)
> >> 
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Thu Nov  5 22:16:51 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Not glass , humor (?)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:50:01 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov5.17501.0>
Precedence: bulk

<<Hey!!!!
You leave Toby out of it.
Not guilty!!
Just because he enjoys a leg of lamb.... or is it old mutton!? And is
it IRISH??
GRrrrrrOwl!
E 'n T in UK>>

I'm back and I heard that. I resemble that remark. Old Mutton???? but no its
............ spring lamb.

Perhaps Toby could dine on a Swedish Meatballs.

Saw a few interesting pieces of glass when I was in Arizona. Three pieces
were by an artist by the name of DeGraza. I found out that he was famous for
his creations (paint and glass) of big-eyed Mexican children. These three
pieces were inset in frames and had a light installed. Its the first time I
had seen this artist's work. I asked if he was a local artisan and was told
he died in 1982 (so I guess he isn't local anymore). That's probably why the
pieces started out at $1850.00 US. Interestingly, he has a picture and
stained glass of a Mexican angle (child) holding a Menorah (Jewish Passover
candelabra). Anybody know anything else about this artist?



Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Thu Nov  5 23:55:15 1998
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X-Path: banet.net!gmanning
From: Goldpaws <gmanning@banet.net>
To: Granny And PawPaw <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: ?'s beading edges/chain/beveled glass windows
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 22:33:35 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov5.173335.0>
References: <<1998Nov5.153337.0>>
Precedence: bulk

What size chain do use?
Goldpaws

Granny And PawPaw wrote:
> 
> Another simple way is to solder beaded chain to the piece.  Solder it all
> around, clean and patina, if you want.
> 
> Arnold Schneider    Creekside Creations
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: suzy@comcat.com <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
> To: glass bungi line <glass@bungi.com>
> Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 7:57 PM
> Subject: Re: ?'s beading edges/chain/beveled glass windows
> 
> >
> >>
> >>I got a book of fairy designs that talks about beading the edges and no =
> >>reference to using lead cane of any type. I have always used u channel =
> >>and have looked in all the books I can find about beading edges without =
> >>a single reference. In looking at the pictures of the finished products =
> >>in the book, it is obvious there is no cane. Can anyone give me some =
> >>guidance ?=20
> >
> >Hold your finished work so the parts you want to bead are horizontal. It
> >would help to use a 63-37 solder since it sets up very fast. And lower
> >the temp on your iron a bit if you can - solder should be almost syrupy.
> >Take a bit of solder on your iron and dab it on top of the horizontal
> >seam. Slowly dab, let that set, then dab beside that, let it set, etc.
> >Always turn your work so the edge you're beading is horizontal. Takes
> >some time but should give a rounded bead to the edge of your work.
> >
> >Suzy
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 00:24:45 1998
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X-Path: tir.com!jazzykid
From: "Jill Medlyn" <jazzykid@tir.com>
To: <Glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: NON Glass humor....I love it
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 03:00:08 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov5.2208.0>
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-

>Hey,
>When John Glenn returns from space, everybody
>dress up in ape suits.
>
>Pass it on.




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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 04:01:08 1998
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'Jill Medlyn'" <jazzykid@tir.com>, "Glass@bungi.com" <Glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: NON Glass humor....I love it
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 06:19:36 -0500
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Yeah but ca we convince the mayor of New York to cover the Statue of Liberty with sand up to her neck?

Linda 
>Hey,
>When John Glenn returns from space, everybody
>dress up in ape suits.
>
>Pass it on.

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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 04:33:19 1998
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From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: non glass humor (at least by my standards)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 07:03:18 EST
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>Hey,
>When John Glenn returns from space, everybody
>dress up in ape suits.
>
>Pass it on.

Hey Jill,

Does someone we know have to wear his tu-tu with the ape outfit?  Have camera,
will travel.  

Pat


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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 04:49:56 1998
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: Witchdoc3@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: sand dollars/echinoderms
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 07:05:50 EST
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Sparks et al,
I would definitely give the matt lacquer a shot in protecting your sea
treasures from the flux and solder.  Let us know what happens.
Good Luck,
Lenore
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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 07:10:00 1998
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
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Subject: Re: hinters
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:20:13 EST
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Hi Howard et al,
Know just what you mean about working from your home.  In my situation, people
who need a service feel very free to call anytime of the day or night.  They
figure you will not get into "trouble" with your boss for having to leave
work.  What they don't figure on is the lost $ in income that cannot be made
up since you were taken away from your most productive work time.  ETC., ETC.
Let's face it, you don't have a REAL job, so why not be productive and help
them out in ways they need assistance? (yeah, right!)  In an emergency I would
not mind at all, however, emergencies are few and far between.  Fortunately, I
do not have anyone "hinting" for free glasswork!!!  That would surely be the
last straw!!!!   Working at home has many drawbacks that most people don't
know about.
----
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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 07:27:07 1998
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X-Path: scc.net!oddjob
From: "Susan C. Reitmann" <oddjob@scc.net>
To: glass bungi line <glass@bungi.com>, "'Pat Kelly'" <pkelly@n-link.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE:Artist: DeGraza
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:46:33 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov6.24633.0>
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A bit more on DeGraza:
Having lived in Tucson, AZ for a time we had many visitors who wanted to =
"get away" from the cold Minnesota winters. The DeGraza Museum was a =
place I would often suggest visiting.

It is located in the northern section of the town (that at one time was =
probably "out in the country").Very peaceful, beautiful setting. His old =
home site, studio and a chapel are located there as well as his grave =
site.Totally surrounded by desert and cactus.There is a huge mosaic =
piece on display outside.

Although he became "famous" for his interpretation of his Mexican =
children, this was only one aspect of his work and not his favorite. He =
designed them for a Christmas card for a charity and they were an =
instant success.

After he died his son took over and continued his work but he is not the =
"artist" that his father was.I think I recall hearing about some family =
"in-fighting".

One story relates to the trouble he had with the Internal Revenue =
Service and paying taxes on his inventory. They were going to make him =
include unsold work at market value. This angered him so much that he =
took all of his pieces and burned them.

The garden in back of the studio/museum is rather interesting. There are =
different musical instruments hanging from the Mesquite trees and =
ladders standing around used to display some of his clay pieces as well =
as metal sculptures.

I was rather intrigued with a bunch of Chevas Regal (Scotch liquor) =
boxes that were piled up to form an abstract shape. Guess he saw "art" =
in everything!
Maybe some of our Phoenix members will beable to add more.=20

If you are in the Tucson area, make this one of your stops.
Sue Reitmann

<snip>Saw a few interesting pieces of glass when I was in Arizona. Three =
pieces
were by an artist by the name of DeGraza. I found out that he was famous =
for
his creations (paint and glass) of big-eyed Mexican children. These =
three
pieces were inset in frames and had a light installed. Its the first =
time I
had seen this artist's work. I asked if he was a local artisan and was =
told
he died in 1982 (so I guess he isn't local anymore). That's probably why =
the
pieces started out at $1850.00 US. Interestingly, he has a picture and
stained glass of a Mexican angle (child) holding a Menorah (Jewish =
Passover
candelabra). Anybody know anything else about this artist?
Patrick
Roses and Rainbows


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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 07:40:59 1998
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Finding glass
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 10:14:15 -0500
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Good Morning to All
	I am working on a design and want a particular kind of glass for the
background.  Hope you all can help direct me with finding it.
	It is German glass, cuts like butter....... cathedral antique.  I do not
know the name of the company that makes it.  I was wondering if anyone here
is familier with it, know the name of the manufacturer and perhaps if they
have a web site.

Any help is much appreciated,  thanks

Barbara Snell
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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 08:12:35 1998
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Menorahs are not for Passover
Date: Fri Nov  6 07:35:11 1998
Message-ID: <1998Nov7.51111.0>
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Patrick

A menorah is for the celebration of Hanukah. Matzah is for Passover.
Just a warning my grand farther taught me how to kill kosher.
Does Toby like kosher food???

Vic  


		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Pat Kelly [mailto:pkelly@n-link.com]
		Sent:	Friday, November 06, 1998 12:50 AM
		To:	glass bungi line
		Subject:	RE: Not glass , humor (?)

		<<Hey!!!!
		You leave Toby out of it.
		Not guilty!!
		Just because he enjoys a leg of lamb.... or is it old
mutton!? And is
		it IRISH??
		GRrrrrrOwl!
		E 'n T in UK>>

		I'm back and I heard that. I resemble that remark. Old
Mutton???? but no its
		............ spring lamb.

		Perhaps Toby could dine on a Swedish Meatballs.

		Saw a few interesting pieces of glass when I was in
Arizona. Three pieces
		were by an artist by the name of DeGraza. I found out
that he was famous for
		his creations (paint and glass) of big-eyed Mexican
children. These three
		pieces were inset in frames and had a light installed.
Its the first time I
		had seen this artist's work. I asked if he was a local
artisan and was told
		he died in 1982 (so I guess he isn't local anymore).
That's probably why the
		pieces started out at $1850.00 US. Interestingly, he has
a picture and
		stained glass of a Mexican angle (child) holding a
Menorah (Jewish Passover
		candelabra). Anybody know anything else about this
artist?



		Patrick
		Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 08:42:12 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Angel assembly line (was RE: TOO Quiet...)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:37:36 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov6.153736.0>
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daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@aol.com's enquiring mind wants to know:

>Sparks
>
>You get to do them one at a time??

=8-O <gasp> <shudder> Yikes! No way! 

>I have an angel assembly line going.

Same here. We really do crank 'em out. The boss keeps showing me little tricks
to do it even faster. I have my own variations of a couple of those tricks (to
accommodate my slightly shaky hands), and working together we can have a whole
"heavenly host in technicolor" done in pretty short order.

Everybody wish Christie a *great* show weekend, she's off to north NJ this
morning with a great load of goodies for sale!


Sparks
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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 08:42:14 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: she sells sea shells by the sea shore
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:37:47 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov6.153747.0>
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In a message dated 11/5/98 10:32:11 AM, esavad@home.net wrote:

>i was almost ready to
>buy a bunch of sand dollars at a garage sale. but as soon as the sun hit
>them they started smelling fishy. i probably should have bought them
>anyway, i could have bleached then sealed them... oh well..

When I've collected them, I've always left them out in the sun for weeks. They
decompose completely and you're left with a nice clean nearly-white non-smelly
shell. I've seen them made into painted Christmas ornaments - that was a
popular thing 5 or 6 years ago. Someone gave us a couple as a gift. I think
they're lacquered. They seem pretty durable.

As for the sea urchins a couple of people mentioned, I know how fragile those
are, but I'm not dealing with them anyway, just the sand dollars.

Ahhhhhhhhh.......... so many projects, so many ideas, so little time!


Sparks, still trying to get a life
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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 09:08:57 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  hinters
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:37:41 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov6.153741.0>
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Howard ruminates:

>because I do not go OUT to work, this is NOT a real
>job.....Old school thinking of which my father (long deceased) always was
>guilty of. General opening of any conversation was, "did I get a job, yet".

That sort of thing really makes me realize how lucky I am..... my other half
and I both have had one parent who has worked at their "real job" at least
partly at home (Rob's dad - may he rest in peace - was a regional salesman for
Encyclopedia Britannica educational materials, and my mom is a fabric artist
who makes banners for churches). Rob and I both work at home (he's a composer,
music engraver, and conductor/administrator of 3 choral groups, and I have my
glass shop in the garage), and "when we're at work, we're at work, and that's
that."

Rob's mom (with whom we live) can be really funny sometimes. I'll be outside
cleaning up a batch of stuff I've just made, and when I bring the finished
pieces inside she'll say, "I want to buy that one for so-and-so, and that one
for me, and........"


Sparks
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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 09:13:41 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: hinters
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:51:45 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov6.155145.0>
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In a message dated 11/6/98 10:10:39 AM, Yegnim@aol.com wrote:

>people
>who need a service feel very free to call anytime of the day or night.  They
>figure you will not get into "trouble" with your boss for having to leave
>work.  What they don't figure on is the lost $ in income that cannot be made
>up since you were taken away from your most productive work time.  ETC.,
>ETC.

In which case ya gotta put your foot down and say "I'm on a deadline with a
project, can I call you back later?" Or better yet, make sure you've got that
Caller ID thang attached to the phone in your shop, and leave the volume
turned up on your answering machine so you can let the machine get it if
you're not sure it's someone you want to talk to. Don't pick up the phone
unless it's a customer or a potential customer or the school calling with an
emergency. Call your family/friends back on your "lunch hour." Let the kids
get their own lunch if they're old enough. It takes a long time to train your
family and friends to take you seriously, and yes, they'll be huffy for a
while, but it's worth it.

It's a lot harder for women, I think, because even in this day and age we're
all being raised to be everyone's puppet/servant/gopher/etc. to some extent. I
had to *learn* to be selfish, and it took me a nervous breakdown to do it, but
the fact is that nobody can be there for *everyone* else, and you can't be
there for *anyone* else if you can't be there for yourself. Otherwise you just
get used up.


Sparks
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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 09:15:41 1998
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: Angels by the dozen
Date: Fri Nov  6 08:02:48 1998
Message-ID: <1998Nov7.53848.0>
Precedence: bulk

I only count one angel.
Soldering in the nude next to the garden sundial by the light of a full
moon.

Vic

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Toby [mailto:toby@northlights.co.uk]
		Sent:	Thursday, November 05, 1998 8:17 PM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	Re: Angels by the dozen

		Christie,
		So instead of counting sheep to fall asleep, you're
counting glass 
		angels....
		I hope you're making sure to get them over the fence
safely! ;->
		Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
		> 
		> H*ll no.  We do them by the bushel-full.  Actually, we
do about
		> 10 a day.  Trace 'em all, cut 'em all, grind 'em all,
foil 'em all,
		> tack 'em all down, solder 'em all, clean 'em all.
That's the
		> way to do angels!
		> 
		 
		----
		As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of
mind"
		North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
	
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 09:52:37 1998
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X-Path: tir.com!jazzykid
From: "Jill Medlyn" <jazzykid@tir.com>
To: <CncptThnkr@aol.com>, <Glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: non glass humor (at least by my standards)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:18:45 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov6.71845.0>
Precedence: bulk

of course, but shouldn't that particular person be wearing  the new and
exclusive Princess Di's  tiara from Home Shopping Network with the 28, once
in a lifetime, classic diamondite with 42 matching emeraldines, for the low
price of $9.49. Available for this one time only.   But, be sure to wear the
tiara careful, for if exposured to skin any long than 30 seconds, it may
turn skin a frightful shade of green.

Jill
-----Original Message-----
From: CncptThnkr@aol.com <CncptThnkr@aol.com>
To: Glass@bungi.com <Glass@bungi.com>
Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 7:47 AM
Subject: non glass humor (at least by my standards)


>
>>Hey,
>>When John Glenn returns from space, everybody
>>dress up in ape suits.
>>
>>Pass it on.
>
>Hey Jill,
>
>Does someone we know have to wear his tu-tu with the ape outfit?  Have
camera,
>will travel.
>
>Pat
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 10:36:07 1998
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: For Mary Austin (Non-Glass)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:34:32 -0500
Message-ID: <199811061738.MAA18033@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Mary,

Elisabeth gave me your address to mail you the Sunday Times Magazine with 
the Light Healing article. 

Someone lost it. (Not me of course.) If you'll E-mail me your snail mail 
address privately I'll get it right in the mail to you. Thanks!

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 11:03:10 1998
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: RE: Angels by the dozen
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:26:50 -0500
Message-ID: <199811061730.MAA17310@uz.ComCAT.COM>
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>I only count one angel.
>Soldering in the nude next to the garden sundial by the light of a full
>moon.
>
>Vic

I'll bet our angel isn't doing that TODAY!

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 11:18:18 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: she sells sea shells by the sea shore
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 11:55:21 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov6.65521.0>
References: <<1998Nov6.153747.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 11/5/98 10:32:11 AM, esavad@home.net wrote:
> 
> >i was almost ready to
> >buy a bunch of sand dollars at a garage sale. but as soon as the sun hit
> >them they started smelling fishy. i probably should have bought them
> >anyway, i could have bleached then sealed them... oh well..
> 
> When I've collected them, I've always left them out in the sun for weeks. They
> decompose completely and you're left with a nice clean nearly-white non-smelly
> shell. I've seen them made into painted Christmas ornaments - that was a
> popular thing 5 or 6 years ago. Someone gave us a couple as a gift. I think
> they're lacquered. They seem pretty durable.
> 
> As for the sea urchins a couple of people mentioned, I know how fragile those
> are, but I'm not dealing with them anyway, just the sand dollars.
> 
> Ahhhhhhhhh.......... so many projects, so many ideas, so little time!
> 
> Sparks, still trying to get a life
> ----
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how do you keep the birds and animals away from the fishy smelling
discs?

---Mike Savad


-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 11:21:21 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Witchdoc3@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: hinters
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 12:16:58 -0600
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> In which case ya gotta put your foot down and say "I'm on a deadline with a
> project, can I call you back later?" Or better yet, make sure you've got that
> Caller ID thang attached to the phone in your shop, and leave the volume
> turned up on your answering machine so you can let the machine get it if
> you're not sure it's someone you want to talk to. Don't pick up the phone
> unless it's a customer or a potential customer or the school calling with an
> emergency. Call your family/friends back on your "lunch hour." Let the kids
> get their own lunch if they're old enough. It takes a long time to train your
> family and friends to take you seriously, and yes, they'll be huffy for a
> while, but it's worth it.


Then there are husbands, who push you to hurry up and get a good
inventory so you can start making some money....that says, "Think you
better find a stopping point, so you can do dinner, and the kids need to
go to bed ya know.  Emily needs a bath...etc..."
Havent heard anyone offer to cook, do dishes, or tell the 8 yr old to go
get in the shower!  Still trying to make the point that I cant get much
work done when I am always made to stop working!
It is so nice to get even 4-5 hours uninterupted.  Oh, for 8-10 hours.
I end up staying up late, as once the kids are in bed, I can work
uninterupted.  Of course that is after taking care of 2-3 kids for pay
during the day as well.  Will be so glad when I make some to quit the
baby sitting jobs!

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 11:42:57 1998
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'mail@northlights.co.uk'" <mail@northlights.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Apitherapy was RE: Honey
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:52:47 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov6.75247.0>
Precedence: bulk

Elisabeth,

Yes, I'd be interested in the article. I'd lilke to share it with the bee 
club. Several members of our bee club either use their bees for apitherapy 
for themselves or sell bees for others to use. Supposedly, bee stings are 
effective  to combat the symptoms of  MS and other diseases. It used to 
make my skin crawl to think of getting stung intentionally but, if I had a 
chronic ailment that I thought it would help, I think I'd consider it.

Linda


E & T said:

Hi Linda,

Since you and Albert ('n others) talked about bee-keeping and
bee-stings, quite by co-incidence my trusted Sunday tome The Sunday
Times brought out yet another article, which - would you believe it -
dealt with bee venom as a cure. The title of it is "Bee venom may
relieve arthritis and MS". Interested anyone???
Luckily, it's a short article, so I will type it and save on floppy
disk, rather than trying to scan it (and then Suzanne Albright had to
insert all the missing bits of another article I found, once she
received the original hard copy). It appeared in The Sunday Times
Innovation section on Sunday 1st November..... in case folks Across
the Pond happen to just pick it up .... you know.... the way one
does....
Take care now
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK



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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 14:28:05 1998
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: ?'s beading edges/chain/beveled glass windows
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:33:56 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov6.113356.0>
Precedence: bulk

It's small...Not in my shop at this time...I'd guess about 1/8 " ball

Arnold

-----Original Message-----
From: Goldpaws <gmanning@banet.net>
To: Granny And PawPaw <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
Cc: bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 10:31 PM
Subject: Re: ?'s beading edges/chain/beveled glass windows


>What size chain do use?
>Goldpaws
>
>Granny And PawPaw wrote:
>>
>> Another simple way is to solder beaded chain to the piece.  Solder it all
>> around, clean and patina, if you want.
>>
>> Arnold Schneider    Creekside Creations
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: suzy@comcat.com <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
>> To: glass bungi line <glass@bungi.com>
>> Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 7:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: ?'s beading edges/chain/beveled glass windows
>>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>I got a book of fairy designs that talks about beading the edges and no
=
>> >>reference to using lead cane of any type. I have always used u channel
=
>> >>and have looked in all the books I can find about beading edges without
=
>> >>a single reference. In looking at the pictures of the finished products
=
>> >>in the book, it is obvious there is no cane. Can anyone give me some =
>> >>guidance ?=20
>> >
>> >Hold your finished work so the parts you want to bead are horizontal. It
>> >would help to use a 63-37 solder since it sets up very fast. And lower
>> >the temp on your iron a bit if you can - solder should be almost syrupy.
>> >Take a bit of solder on your iron and dab it on top of the horizontal
>> >seam. Slowly dab, let that set, then dab beside that, let it set, etc.
>> >Always turn your work so the edge you're beading is horizontal. Takes
>> >some time but should give a rounded bead to the edge of your work.
>> >
>> >Suzy
>> >----
>> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>
>> ----
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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 14:58:08 1998
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: ?'s beading edges/chain/beveled glass windows
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:50:57 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov6.115057.0>
Precedence: bulk

Suzy,  The way I do it is with a hemostat, surgical clamp.  I clamp the
chain to the glass near the end of the chain.  Then I stretch the chain for
about an inch and solder the very end down.  This holds it in place.  Remove
the hemostat and solder as you turn the piece.  Make sure your iron is clean
and well tinned.  It will then hold solder so that you can touch and go with
the solder.  It will do away with the need of a third hand.  If you still
have handling problems you can get a fly tying clamp to hold the piece.
Check the sporting goods dept....

Good luck..

Arnold
-----Original Message-----
From: suzy@comcat.com <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: Granny And PawPaw <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: ?'s beading edges/chain/beveled glass windows


>
>Arnold wrote:
>>> Another simple way is to solder beaded chain to the piece.  Solder it
all
>>> around, clean and patina, if you want.
>
>Every time I've tried this (maybe twice) it looks sloppy. Either the
>chain pulls part-way off and I can't get it to fit back after the solder
>gets between it and the edge, or I can't match the beads up. I've given
>up on it, unless you can give me some "tips."
>
>Suzanne, with thanks for all the Great Tips you've been giving.

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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 15:35:42 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  Re: she sells sea shells by the sea shore
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:49:38 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov6.224938.0>
Precedence: bulk


Mike's enquiring mind wants to know:

>how do you keep the birds and animals away from the fishy smelling
>discs?

Never had a problem with it, actually. I must lead a charmed life or
something......


Sparks
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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 16:01:57 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: vmodiano@ctronsoft.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: RE: Angel assembly line (was RE: TOO Quiet...)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:49:40 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov6.224940.0>
Precedence: bulk


Vic Modiano's enquiring mind actually wanted to know privately, but I figured
I'll reply to the list in case there are any other curious North
Jerseyites/metro new Yorkers out there:

>Where in North Jersey is Christie going.
>If it's in my neck of the woods, and the kid is behaving , I'll stop by.

Hmmmmmmm......... don't have the show info in front of me...... let me check
in the garage.............

Found it!

Westfield Craft Market
Westfield Armory
500 Rahway Ave.
Westfield, NJ

Directions (as given on the post card):
Garden State Parkway to exit 135 (Clark/Westfield)
to Central Ave. towards Westfield.
Left at 4th light onto Grove St.
Take right at Thomas Edison junior High School onto Rahway Ave.
Armory is 1/4 mile on left, 500 Rahway Ave.

Show hours:	Fri. Nov. 6		5-9 pm
				Sat. Nov. 7		10-6
				Sun. Nov. 8		10-5:30

Admission:		$6 for weekend pass, kids under 10 free, "No strollers please!"

If you see her, tell her I said "He-e-e-e-ey!"


Sparks
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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 16:34:43 1998
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X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro
From: Carol Tombro <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: sand dollars
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 18:19:47 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov6.131947.0>
Organization: Home
Precedence: bulk

While we're blessed with an abundance of sand dollars here, I don't know
anyone who would even try to use them with foil and solder.  The best
thing to do is soak them in a solution of bleach and water and let them
dry dry dry.  Then paint them, put a red bow with hot glue on it and
write someone's name in letters on it.  Otherwise, leave them the way
they were meant to be seen.  We make glass sand dollars to use in some
of our work and leave the real things to nature.  Besides, I don't think
the sand dollars would hold up, they are very fragile.

Carol T



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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 16:58:57 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "Jill Medlyn" <jazzykid@tir.com>, <CncptThnkr@aol.com>, <Glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: non glass humor (at least by my standards)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:43:12 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov6.114312.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hmmmmm a green bald head with a Princess Di Tiara. This intrigues me. Now
where did I put my Mastercard?

-----Original Message-----
From: Jill Medlyn <jazzykid@tir.com>
To: CncptThnkr@aol.com <CncptThnkr@aol.com>; Glass@bungi.com
<Glass@bungi.com>
Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: non glass humor (at least by my standards)


>of course, but shouldn't that particular person be wearing  the new and
>exclusive Princess Di's  tiara from Home Shopping Network with the 28, once
>in a lifetime, classic diamondite with 42 matching emeraldines, for the low
>price of $9.49. Available for this one time only.   But, be sure to wear
the
>tiara careful, for if exposured to skin any long than 30 seconds, it may
>turn skin a frightful shade of green.
>
>Jill


<snip>

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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 16:59:19 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: <CncptThnkr@aol.com>, <Glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: non glass humor (at least by my standards)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:36:44 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov6.113644.0>
Precedence: bulk

I think I know to whom you are referring. He will need an ape suit with his
TuTu if you expect hairy legs. His pants legs have worn off the hair because
of his dancing.

-----Original Message-----
From: CncptThnkr@aol.com <CncptThnkr@aol.com>
To: Glass@bungi.com <Glass@bungi.com>
Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 6:45 AM
Subject: non glass humor (at least by my standards)


>
>>Hey,
>>When John Glenn returns from space, everybody
>>dress up in ape suits.
>>
>>Pass it on.
>
>Hey Jill,
>
>Does someone we know have to wear his tu-tu with the ape outfit?  Have
camera,
>will travel.
>
>Pat
>
>
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 17:22:02 1998
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: Granny And PawPaw <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: ?'s beading edges/chain/beveled glass windows
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 18:04:45 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov6.13445.0>
References: <<1998Nov6.113356.0>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Small ball chain is like the stuff for old fashioned key tags type
chain.  Craft stores, most glass stores, if you need 200 plus feet,
wholesale craft catalogs.  Just got several feet at .20 cent per foot.  

Lee-in a hurry for next show coming up-
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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 18:30:44 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: ?'s beading edges/chain/beveled glass windows
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 20:39:40 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov6.153940.0>
Precedence: bulk

The effect of using ball chain
is rather nice - looks like the =

same chain as on military ID
tags or key chains.  The first
time I saw it was on a  S.G.
business card holder and I
thought to myself "Wow, nice
solder beads".  Now, I'm no
slouch in the soldering dept.
myself, but I was pretty darned
impressed with the perfection =

of these particular beads.  =

Whew, was I relieved to find
out it was a slick little trick o'  =

the trade!  ;-) =


Best,

Dani Greer =

Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 18:58:10 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Finding glass
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 20:39:32 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov6.153932.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Barbara-

Glashutte Lamberts makes =

German full antiques, or you
might have used some Desag.
Desag, however, has closed
their factory for mouthblown
glass - they only produce New
antique now.  You would know
Lamberts because it's a bit
thicker and more irregular in
thickness.  Both cut like "butter" =

as you say.  Hope that helps!

Best,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 19:23:26 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Ron and Wendy Larson" <larsonrw@pdq.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: ?'s beading edges/chain/beveled glass windows
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 20:39:25 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov6.153925.0>
Precedence: bulk

Ron/Wendy-

There is no point in beading =

on lead came... you run the risk of
burning through the lead.  =

Beading is a technique crafters
use to dress up a copper foiled
edge.

As to your question about bevels,
their thickness provides no more
insulative value than other glass.
The insulative qualities come from
the cementing process in a leaded
panel.  In a doorlight, we usually =

install the panel against existing =

glazing which nowadays is probably
an insulated unit.  (We never =

sandwich a stained glass window
in an insulated unit, though... more
on this in the bungi archives.)

Hope that helps a bit.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 19:26:25 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Witchdoc3@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: kids, A&C shows, Marty home yet? was Re: Angel assembly line (was RE: TOO Quiet...)
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 20:46:31 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov6.144631.0>
References: <<1998Nov6.224940.0>>
Precedence: bulk

> Admission:              $6 for weekend pass, kids under 10 free, "No strollers please!"


Wow.  No strollers.  They might as well say no parents with kids under 5
allowed.  I wouldnt be able to go.  The arts and crafts show in Tulsa
last week, I only let Graham out of the stroller for a very short time,
and it was a nightmare, was so busy chasing him, I couldnt look at
anything.  Marty!? are you home?  Did you have a safe trip?  

Tulsa Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 19:50:07 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "glass@bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: bead edge
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 19:05:53 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov6.11553.0>
Precedence: bulk

Some of the original Tiffany shades had a bead edge.........Nuisance to tin
beads and fit a 65" run, but it does dress up the edge nicely.

enjoy H

weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard   best lamps on the "net"
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Fri Nov  6 22:56:06 1998
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Survivors Art Foundation
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 22:31:17 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov6.143117.0>
Organization: Stained Glass Artists
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone,

As you all know art can and does play a major role in emotional healing
for trauma victims. I was contacted today by the executive director of
the Survivors Art Foundation.

Curious after reading her detailed description of the SAF organization I
decided to browse the site. I can't tell you how wonderful the feeling
is to see trauma survivors utilizing art as a healing method.

The artists can be viewed in the gallery section. The stained glass
artist there has very interesting interpretations.  I really do applaud
people who come together for a great human cause. Enjoy everyone!

Survivors Art Foundation
http://www.survivorsartfoundation.org/

Have a great weekend everybody!!

Pam

--
*********************************
The Stained Glass Artists
Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director:
Advertising & Marketing


Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

Join our live glass chat!
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.igga.org/


----
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From owner-glass Sat Nov  7 00:59:40 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: High strike
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 02:25:17 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov6.202517.0>
Precedence: bulk

What does *high strike* mean?

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
----
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From owner-glass Sat Nov  7 06:32:41 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr
From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: non glass humor and a bevel question
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 08:51:10 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov7.135110.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hey Guys,

While Patrick is looking for his MasterCard should we put together our
shopping lists for him?  Suzanne de Tulsa I think you can think of some glass
you want, can't ya?  And personally, I would love a small token of his
affection too, something sparkly that does not turn the skin green.  Shop on
Patrick.

How does 3 X 5 diamond shaped bevels sound for 59 cents?  I imagine they are
not the best quality, but for anything using quantity the price sounds good.
(Right now can't put my hands on my catalogs to check prices) I also would
love some ideas how to use them besides putting them together as a star.  I am
going to have about 10 evenings before Christmas to get some serious glass
work done.  How do you think these bevels would look set inside box lids?  

Thank you guys for all the advice, you are all wonderful.

Pat
----
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From owner-glass Sat Nov  7 06:45:20 1998
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: GNA Glass
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 08:48:12 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981107084812.006c2c88@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Precedence: bulk

Hi....
	You were all right.... I went down to my local glass shop and asked for
GNA glass and there it was..... they even had a sheet of the exact color I
was looking for ....  it was a good day.  Thanks for your help.

Barbara

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From owner-glass Sat Nov  7 08:36:24 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland
From: Mosfunland@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: chilhuly
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 10:54:56 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov7.155456.0>
Precedence: bulk

For those bungians who are living around Phila, New Jersey, on Monday night on
PBS (public broadcasting station) at 8pm, they are broadcasting Chilhuly (sp?)
over Venice.

I am not sure how far the broadcast reaches, but thought I'd send the note and
folks can check their stations.

Take care
Maureen (in Phila)
----
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From owner-glass Sat Nov  7 09:07:26 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: CncptThnkr@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: non glass humor and a bevel question
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 10:41:10 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov7.44110.0>
References: <<1998Nov7.135110.0>>
Precedence: bulk

> How does 3 X 5 diamond shaped bevels sound for 59 cents?  I imagine they are
> not the best quality, but for anything using quantity the price sounds good.


According to the catalogs I have in front of me, that appears to be
about half price.  As to the quality????

> While Patrick is looking for his MasterCard should we put together our
> shopping lists for him?  Suzanne de Tulsa I think you can think of some glass
> you want, can't ya?  And personally, I would love a small token of his
> affection too, something sparkly that does not turn the skin green.  Shop on
> Patrick.

Oh, do I ever have some glass picked out! ;o)  
Tulsa Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
----
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From owner-glass Sat Nov  7 09:22:45 1998
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: non glass humor and a bevel question
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 10:33:47 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov7.53347.0>
Precedence: bulk

You might try making boxes with a hinged top, or a paperwight by filling the
box with sand and shells, or something, and soldering it closed.....

Arnold


-----Original Message-----
From: CncptThnkr@aol.com <CncptThnkr@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Saturday, November 07, 1998 9:41 AM
Subject: non glass humor and a bevel question


>Hey Guys,
>
>While Patrick is looking for his MasterCard should we put together our
>shopping lists for him?  Suzanne de Tulsa I think you can think of some
glass
>you want, can't ya?  And personally, I would love a small token of his
>affection too, something sparkly that does not turn the skin green.  Shop
on
>Patrick.
>
>How does 3 X 5 diamond shaped bevels sound for 59 cents?  I imagine they
are
>not the best quality, but for anything using quantity the price sounds
good.
>(Right now can't put my hands on my catalogs to check prices) I also would
>love some ideas how to use them besides putting them together as a star.  I
am
>going to have about 10 evenings before Christmas to get some serious glass
>work done.  How do you think these bevels would look set inside box lids?
>
>Thank you guys for all the advice, you are all wonderful.
>
>Pat
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

----
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From owner-glass Sat Nov  7 10:28:52 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bio # 68  Karen Klomparens
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 11:45:56 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov7.54556.0>
Precedence: bulk

Now where do I start. I guess my interest in art was there from
the beginning.  Even in grade school I remember spending much more time on
drawings for book report covers than on the book report itself.  Went to the
local Christian school after 6th. grade (dad was a preachers kid & mom
insisted) which didn't have much to offer in the way of art classes till
high school when I spent every free hour in the art room.  My teacher (Mr.
Mathius from HCHS are you out there?) was a great mentor who once told me I
had more potential than any of his students. Oh, did I forget to mention he
added if I would only use it. Shame on me!  So it went, goofed around,
graduated and took any job to move out of the house.

 Woke up in a fog after my rebel years, married & divorced twice, but we
won't go there.  Today?
Happily married, 3 kids, 2 bunnies with 7 babies, and a dog named Moose.  My
husband has a bar & grill in town so I was able to quit my job in a local
sweat shop after 20 years.  Was making crafty things like jewelry and
wearable art, ( beats doing housework ! ), before I took my first stained
glass class 3 years ago at The Stained Glass Place in Grand Rapids MI.  I
think they publish the Stained Glass News.  Staying true to form I dove in
with both feet and the rest of me too and preceded to take over most of the
basement for my studio, including the furnace room to pour stones in.  One
of my earlier pieces is a large panel, 24 x 38, that I would like to send to
the gallery when I get my scanner hooked up.  This is the first computer we
had on the net, birthday gift from my husband, haven't got it all set up
yet.   My favorite shows to do are the music festivals where you set up
right in front of your camper for the weekend, but I plan on doing more
indoor shows now that we have a cargo trailer and the kids are older
(youngest is 8).  Other projects I've done include a couple of mosaic
tables, birdhouses & feeders, night lites, candle holders, windchimes,
suncatchers, lead-free glass jewelry, and of course X-mas stuff.  Well, I
think That's All Folks, wouldn't want to bore as I've been known to chatter
on and on and on and on.....................

Thought for the day:  It's nice to be important, but it's more important to
be NICE!

Karen K.

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sat Nov  7 10:50:07 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bio # 67 Nancy Kitchen
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 11:40:26 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov7.54026.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi,  I graduated from HS in 65, lived in Dearborn, MI until I moved north in
74. I am now a retired art teacher at 51!  Retired 2 years ago and made
myself decide which art medium I would pursue the rest of my life (well...at
least for now) I am a Jack of all trades, master of none... I had a 60 hr
major in fine arts with a BAE from Eastern Michigan University in 69 and am
finding it difficult not to be busy.  So thus my obsession with glass.

I found a part time job working in a Stained Glass shop 48 miles away the
first Fall.  Worked and learned alot there until the first Michigan snow
storm.  It took me 3 hours to get home in the dark.  I started etching when
a friend asked me if I could etch their living room  mirror. I chose Armor
Etch Cream and Clear Contact Paper. Having only to have done it with
students on a small scale before, I did it for free and became hooked.  I
designed it and cut it myself.  The true joy is to see the result as you
peel off the stencil and all the neat things that happen to that single
pane. The word was out and I was approached by someone I didn't know to do 6
entryway windows.  However, he didn't like the chemical irregularities and
asked if I could sandblast it.  So off I went in pursuit of a sandblaster.
Did lots of trials to find out how to get my desired results.  I had no idea
of the potential the medium could afford with experimentation.  I am now on
my umteenth project, a 2ft X 10ft transom window, stationary, in a private
home. She wants a landscape centered around wolves.  Again I will have to do
another original design.   I had no idea the demand for such an art.

I taught in numerous media, watercolor, pastel, ceramics, drawing,
silk-screen, sculpture ( I was the only art teacher K-12 for 20 years)
Anyway, I just purchased this computer a month ago and have found it an
invaluable resource (especially for me, who lives in the sticks). As I
surfed I stumbled upon IGGA web site.  It was enough to make me hysterical.
So here I am, an owner of a sandblaster (without a cabinet), a jar of
chemicals and a hot knife and a desire to know more.  Bring er on friends. I
am now wondering what will happen if I advertise.  What kind of calls will I
get the most of?  Is there a method of making multiple stencils?   I'd like
to hear from other etchers.


Patrick
Roses and Rainbows


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From owner-glass Sat Nov  7 11:00:23 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!dro
From: "Daniel" <dro@teleport.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: How depressed........
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 10:19:58 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov7.21958.0>
Precedence: bulk

I am.....after putting so much work into a nice peice I was going to give to
my mother....
Last night I attempted to border the thing in lead came....


sigh..............fiasco..........

I couldn't get the came to cut welll.........as far as trying to get 45
degree angles to butt them to each other....
forget it.....I ended up just making the ends square....


I hope I stretched the came properly....each of us pulled on one end with
pliers....we pulled until
both ends broke.........I didn't feel any stretching....

Any way I couldn't seem to get the lead came EXACTLY flat and straight
again....
I finished the peice but it looks lousy...

Some parts of the came are actually loose..

I am going to either stick with zinc.....(at least I KNOW I can cut precise
angles)
or find some other way of cutting the lead came....I used one of those
pliers that also has a pincher
type flat part for cutting wire etc.....but it does crush the hell out of
the lead came.


Sigh I'll quess I have to qualify my Mothers gift with "sorry it looks so
bad... it was my first attempt....."

Daniel in Oregon

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From owner-glass Sat Nov  7 11:58:29 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, CncptThnkr@aol.com, glass@intrastar.net
Subject: Bevel question
Date: Sat,  7 Nov 1998 14:47:52, -0500
Message-ID: <199811071947.OAA07594@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>How does 3 X 5 diamond shaped bevels sound for 59 cents?  I imagine 
they are
not the best quality, but for anything using quantity the price 
sounds good.
(Right now can't put my hands on my catalogs to check prices) I also 
would
love some ideas how to use them besides putting them together as a 
star.<<

You might just be surprised at the quality. Perhaps the bevels just 
miss the corners by a small amount and will look fine when leaded up.


You can assemble four 3 X 5" diamonds to make a larger 6 X 10" 
diamond which is a nice size for many cabinet doors. You can add a 
diamond to the top and bottom of the above cluster to make a nice 
pattern for a long narrow panel. You can do the same at the sides for 
a wider panel.

You can foil and assemble six 3 X 5" bevels to make closed a 3-D 
shape that can be filled with water (colored?) and hung as a sparkler.
 Once you figure out how to make these you will be needing bevels by 
the full box of thirty.

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026
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From owner-glass Sat Nov  7 13:32:36 1998
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X-Path: email.msn.com!bird_cage
From: "Doug Parrott" <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
To: "bungi group" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: dremel
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 13:14:49 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov7.51449.0>
Precedence: bulk

My husband just bought me a variable speed dremel with the flexible hand
control and a stand.   Wow!!  Sure wasn't expecting that.   (actually I was
kind of hoping for the Glass Eye software.  Maybe that will be a Christmas
present)   Any way,  I briefly tried the Dremel out with my new diamond
glass bits.   Oh my gosh.  It only took a couple minutes max.  It is so
precise.  No chipping of the glass.   I am so impressed.  I even drilled
through my troublesome Bullseye glass that I broke using the glass and tile
drill bit.   I am so excited about this.   I am also a bit overwhelmed.   I
guess the possibilities I have with this tool are almost limitless (at least
that how it seems to me)   It  appears I can do some engraving even on
cement.   So that means I can not only put glass into the stones but I can
personalize them with some engraving.

Any ideas on what all I can do with this handy tool?   I really am a bit
overwhelmed by it.

Cheryl



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From owner-glass Sat Nov  7 14:01:03 1998
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From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: How depressed........
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:47:25 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov7.214725.0>
Precedence: bulk

Daniel - Please take the lead came off and replace with zinc.  You will feel
much better about it and maybe won't even be depressed anymore when you see
how good it will look.  It sounds like you are happy with the look of the
glass work itself and the came  isn't hard to remove (is it?)

I picked up my arched panel yesterday (that I had them frame in zinc at the
local store).  I had originally put lead came around it, but was a few inches
shy.  It looked bad too because the outside wasn't completely even.  The zinc
finishes it off beautifully!

Brenda

<< I am.....after putting so much work into a nice peice I was going to give
to
 my mother....
 Last night I attempted to border the thing in lead came....
 
 
 sigh..............fiasco..........
 
 I couldn't get the came to cut welll.........as far as trying to get 45
 degree angles to butt them to each other....
 forget it.....I ended up just making the ends square....
 
 
 I hope I stretched the came properly....each of us pulled on one end with
 pliers....we pulled until
 both ends broke.........I didn't feel any stretching....
 
 Any way I couldn't seem to get the lead came EXACTLY flat and straight
 again....
 I finished the peice but it looks lousy...
 
 Some parts of the came are actually loose..
 
 I am going to either stick with zinc.....(at least I KNOW I can cut precise
 angles)
 or find some other way of cutting the lead came....I used one of those
 pliers that also has a pincher
 type flat part for cutting wire etc.....but it does crush the hell out of
 the lead came.
 
 
 Sigh I'll quess I have to qualify my Mothers gift with "sorry it looks so
 bad... it was my first attempt....." >>
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From owner-glass Sat Nov  7 14:37:49 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Help! Help! Help!
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:06:19 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov7.10619.0>
Precedence: bulk

I need more bios. I only have enough for one more post. The "Hound from
Hell" is salivating again. Diplomacy won't work this time. In a TuTu my
beautiful sensual legs are exposed, the Old English Sheepdog is nearing and
his porcelain like fangs are gleaming in the moonlight. If I jump up on the
sundial again my gnomone will be irreplaceable.

All of you lurkers please, please help. Send your bios to me or soon you
will be asked to send donations for a floral arrangement to the Funeral
Parlor.

Please help
Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sat Nov  7 15:02:57 1998
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From: "Doug Parrott" <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
To: "bungi group" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: dremel
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 14:30:04 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov7.6304.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Brenda,

Thanks for suggestions.  Really, I was just a bit bewildered with what I was
going to do with this.   I'm very excited now.

This is the Dremel Multipro Super Kit 3956.  I guess it is Model 395.  Plus
it comes with the Flex Model 225 attachment .  Doug bought me the Flex shaft
tool holder as well.

I bought a couple Glastar diamond bits last month.   3/8" & 1/8".   I used
the 1/8" today and it worked super.  It appears I will need to get another
collet to use the 3/8".  I don't know if I will be able to use the
Flex-shaft attachment though.  I am not sure if I can get a collet for the
right size for the Flex-Shaft attachment.   Doug was running up to Home
Depot so no telling what he'll come home with.

When I drilled the whole I used the putty to make a water dam.    I drilled
at a 45 degree angle until I made and indentation in the glass and then I
drilled straight into the piece.   It only took a minute or so.   I only
drilled from one side.  I am going to practice going from both sides.

Good luck with yours and keep me up to date with all the uses you come up
with.

Cheryl

-----Original Message-----
From: BMarhon@aol.com <BMarhon@aol.com>
To: bird_cage@email.msn.com <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
Date: Saturday, November 07, 1998 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: dremel


>Hi Cheryl:  A while back I asked the same questions about the dremel tool
>because the company I work for was closing out the dremel line and I could
buy
>one for cost.  I got the Model 332 variable speed Moto-Flex tool.  I
haven't
>used it much yet, but I had a few good suggestions from the group like use
the
>cutoff wheel for cutting off old lead or zinc to make repairs, wire wheel
for
>cleaning oxidation and patina off old lead to resolder, engraving your name
on
>the glass, buffing wheel to shine spots on zinc or lead that just won't
shine.
>I'm sure you'll get more from others.
>
>Did you drill a hole in the glass with it?  If so, what bit did you use and
>how did you do it?  I've read that you are supposed to make a dam of clay
or
>something and fill with water and then do only halfway through on both
sides.
>
>I recently bought a package of 20 diamond burrs that fit the dremel from a
>mailorder company for about $10.  The are made in China, so don't know how
>they will hold up but the bits can get expensive if you want to have a nice
>assortment.
>
>I'm sure you'll find many uses for it now that you have it.  What a
thoughtful
>hubby!
>
>Brenda



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From owner-glass Sat Nov  7 15:32:11 1998
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From: CWWSLW@aol.com
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: dremel
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 17:32:52 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov7.223252.0>
Precedence: bulk

I love my dremel. I use it to cut zinc came. Just be sure you use a REINFORCED
cutting disc. Fast and neat. I never thought about using it to grind glass
though. What about over heating? I also used it to enlarge the rabbit of a
frame that a panel of mine wouldn't quite fit into.(Sanding disc)
I also carved a design on my dining room table with it. Worked great.Also, my
husband carves ducks and song birds with it. What did we ever do without it?

Susan
P.S. I love it much more than my glass eye software!!!
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From owner-glass Sat Nov  7 15:32:26 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
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Subject: Christies' slow supplier
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 16:54:44 -0600
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Christie...maybe you posted and I missed it...but, what ever happened
with the mother/daugher team?

Are you going to try to do your own?  How did they respond to your
proposal?

Tulsa Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Sat Nov  7 15:45:07 1998
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From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: bird_cage@email.msn.com, glass@bungi.com, glass@intrastar.net
Subject: dremel
Date: Sat,  7 Nov 1998 17:51:06, -0500
Message-ID: <199811072251.RAA14256@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>> It  appears I can do some engraving even on
cement.   So that means I can not only put glass into the stones but 
I can
personalize them with some engraving.

Any ideas on what all I can do with this handy tool?   I really am a 
bit
overwhelmed by it.

Cheryl<<

You might just go easy on drilling other than glass with your new 
diamond bits. True, diamond is very hard but the nickle or whatever 
is used to attach it to the shank of the drill is not very hard. In a 
bonded drill it is ment to wear away to expose new diamond. Cement is 
likely to cause the diamonds to be ripped out of the holding material 
and make the drill worthless. For the same reason I no longer sharpen 
my steel lawn mower blade on my diamond grinder. 

A small industrial diamond drill is one large diamond mounted to a 
shaft and with care will drill steel for years. Ford Motor Company is 
said to have one that has drilled miles of steel.

You might expermint with one or two of  your diamond drills to see 
what they will and will not do.
Be sure to use plenty of water as a coolant. Without water the drill 
has a usable life of seconds.

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026
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From owner-glass Sat Nov  7 18:05:28 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bio #69 Patricia    {Pat(IA)}
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 15:57:45 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov7.95745.0>
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Ok, ready to bare my soul to save ya from the hounds of the UK.  (however I
loved the pic of the hound, quite the cutie).

I have taken quite the round about path to working on glass.  The first
class
I took was in 1982, the class was at a large craft store not a stained glass
shop.   I was very obviously pregnant (only about 8 1/2 mos or so) and was
never told I would not be allowed to solder (duhhh).  Got everything cut and
foiled and then was told "sorry, you can't be here when we solder".   That
project was filed away in the attic and was only dug out on a recent
archeological dig.  A few years later, I signed up for a second class
through
an adult education program at a local school.  That was even worse.  A four
week class and we never even cut any glass!   Very small class (3 people)
and
the teacher spend his time discussing art history with one of the students
(read this as major flirting).  He did mention once if we wanted we could
bring in some glass to cut.  He never gave a clue what to buy or where to
buy
it, my friend and I lasted 2 weeks. An example of someone who knew how to
work
in stained glass but was not the least bit prepared to teach.   Now we jump
ahead to approximately 1995.  Signed up for a beginner class at a local
shop.
After 13 years I finally accomplished something!!!!  I fell in love with
glass
all over again.  In our beginner class we made both a foiled and a leaded
panel.  In the intermediate class we made a box and a panel lamp.  I went to
another shop and took a leaded class, I was the only student, they teach
lead
and lamps by appointment.  Four weeks/$40.00, individualized instruction
plus
a discount on materials.  The only inconvenience was the teacher is also the
owner and had to frequently abandon me to help customers.  I had designed my
own panel with all straight cuts, elongated diamonds in a row alternating
bevels with some I cut.  I still love it, but was at a pre suicidal point
while working on it.  I learned the hard way, all bevels are not identical
and
when you only have straight lines things slide a bit more.  Being stubborn
was
the only thing that made it doable.  Since then I have attended workshops on
mosaics and patio stones.  I have given away quite a few of my pieces and
sold
a couple (from what I have read here, I almost gave those away too).  My
goals
now are to learn bead making, button making and kiln work.   I also make
baskets and have often wanted a way to incorporate the baskets and stained
glass.  I designed something awhile ago, but have never gotten around to the
construction.

On a personal note, I am 40, was married forever, got divorced this year
(long overdue) and have 4 children.  I attend a small Catholic university
and
work full time.  I tell people at the rate I am going (one class per term) I
will have a degree when I am ready to retire.

Ahhh, kids, ok, better add them to the bio.

Ken age 19, currently studying jewelry at the local community college, Chris
age 17, senior in high school with plans of graduating in January and going
straight to college, Paul age 15, gothic (no body piercing yet) high school
student, very computer literate, Kevin age 13, middle school student.  The
entire lot shares their mother's off the wall sense of humor.

And I am never gonna be the tu-tu type.  My "what I did on my summer
vacation" essay includes
a crystal mining expedition somewhere in California and a 'drug run' to
Mexico
(totally legal excursion, but calling it a drug run is more fun and it
scares
the timid).  Some carry on luggage (which almost always includes stained
glass
and beer) and a pair of jeans and a t shirt is more my speed.   Hey chop the
bio any way you see fit.  Once I get started typing, I never stop.


  I work for a cult (non profit
organization), I administer a banking system and manage their auto fleet.
Yep, I get to buy cars for a living.
I love to play in my garden and almost 2 years ago joined an online
gardening
discussion group (read that as AOL room "Garden Chat").  It is a
fantastic bunch of people and I have met several of them "in real life".
It
is a very unstructured chat environment but a stable group of people.  We
cross
the country to meet up with each other.  I have been to San Diego a few
times,
S. Lake Tahoe, Chicago, a few small towns in OH, middle of no where PA (try
and find that on a map) and most recently a group meet in Akron, OH.
Families and co workers are appalled because they get their Internet info
from
Dear Abby, but it is a great group of people who have become true friends.
Now that my gardening season is coming to an end, I plan on throwing myself
back into my glass work and finish some of the projects I have started.   No
room for a workshop here, so I am forced to work on top of the washer and
dryer and use the dining room table when I need it.  Cutting, grinding and
soldering on top of the appliances and foiling at the table, not the best
set
up, but it works.

(For Elisabeth's info, I am in Detroit, take your left hand, fingers held
together, see how it looks like a mitten?  ok, now you have a map of
Michigan.
Down where your thumb is connected on the far right side of your left
hand.....that is where Detroit is.  As far as I know, only the residents of
Michigan use body parts to point out geographic locations.)

I am glad I found you guys and have learned so much from your postings.
(And
I want to travel to PA to hear Elisabeth speak and see Patrick in a tu-tu)

As I read out here, "pillage first, burn second"



IA
* * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * *



Patrick
Roses and Rainbows


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From owner-glass Sat Nov  7 18:26:27 1998
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: Witchdoc3@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: she sells sea shells by the sea shore
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 20:34:41 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov7.153441.0>
References: <<1998Nov6.153747.0>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi Sparks,

And good luck to Cristie too!  Spray the sand dollars with Krylon
crystal clear, a couple coats both sides.  After they are completely dry
and bleached.  They should hold up to soldering then, but don't use
patina, it will stick in all the crevices.  Give a couple a try.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations

Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 11/5/98 10:32:11 AM, esavad@home.net wrote:
> 
> >i was almost ready to
> >buy a bunch of sand dollars at a garage sale. but as soon as the sun hit
> >them they started smelling fishy. i probably should have bought them
> >anyway, i could have bleached then sealed them... oh well..
> 
> When I've collected them, I've always left them out in the sun for weeks. They
> decompose completely and you're left with a nice clean nearly-white non-smelly
> shell. I've seen them made into painted Christmas ornaments - that was a
> popular thing 5 or 6 years ago. Someone gave us a couple as a gift. I think
> they're lacquered. They seem pretty durable.
> 
> As for the sea urchins a couple of people mentioned, I know how fragile those
> are, but I'm not dealing with them anyway, just the sand dollars.
> 
> Ahhhhhhhhh.......... so many projects, so many ideas, so little time!
> 
> Sparks, still trying to get a life
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Subject: Re: dremel
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 20:49:34 -0500
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Precedence: bulk

Hi Cheryl,

I use my Fordham Flex shaft Jewelry (similar to Dremel) machine to etch
glass, and since my free hand initials are not great, etch first with
Rub & Etch, and Armor Etch all.  That leaves enough to go by, then I run
over it with the diamond bits to deepen the etching. For initials on
boxes, I then use gold rub & buff to high light the initials.  Looks
great on boxes, card holders etc.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations

Doug Parrott wrote:
> 
> My husband just bought me a variable speed dremel with the flexible hand
> control and a stand.   Wow!!  Sure wasn't expecting that.   (actually I was
> kind of hoping for the Glass Eye software.  Maybe that will be a Christmas
> present)   Any way,  I briefly tried the Dremel out with my new diamond
> glass bits.   Oh my gosh.  It only took a couple minutes max.  It is so
> precise.  No chipping of the glass.   I am so impressed.  I even drilled
> through my troublesome Bullseye glass that I broke using the glass and tile
> drill bit.   I am so excited about this.   I am also a bit overwhelmed.   I
> guess the possibilities I have with this tool are almost limitless (at least
> that how it seems to me)   It  appears I can do some engraving even on
> cement.   So that means I can not only put glass into the stones but I can
> personalize them with some engraving.
> 
> Any ideas on what all I can do with this handy tool?   I really am a bit
> overwhelmed by it.
> 
> Cheryl
> 
> ----
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> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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From: "Kathy Mather" <katmath@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Dremals
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 19:35:51 PST
Message-ID: <1998Nov8.33551.0>
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Hi all, 
When you use a Dremel to drill a hole in glass, I know that your 
supposed to use clay and make a water dam. Any special type of clay? And 
is there anything else that I should know, before I go off and break my 
need piece of work? Thanks for the tips, 
                                                  Kathy

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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 00:12:41 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Pat Kelly <pkelly@n-link.com>
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Subject: Re: Bio #69 Patricia    {Pat(IA)}
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 02:13:04 -0600
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Wow, that's perserverance!!  Glad you finally got to finish some
classes!  Also lots of dedication working on the washer and dryer.
Great Bio Patricia!  

Suzanne (Tulsa)
-- 
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 01:13:20 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: BOB DUCHESNEAU <YWAH36A@prodigy.com>
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Subject: Re: dremel
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 02:51:47 -0600
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> For the same reason I no longer sharpen 
> my steel lawn mower blade on my diamond grinder. 
> 
Color me gullible, but did you really??

Tulsa Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 01:26:58 1998
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Subject: Re: Bio # 68  Karen Klomparens
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 02:57:21 -0600
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>  My favorite shows to do are the music festivals where you set up
> right in front of your camper for the weekend,

Oh, that sounds fun!  Tell me more.  Where do they have these shows?  I
have never seen or been to one...and I have lived in Ca, Wa, Ga....

Suzanne
-- 
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 03:47:30 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
Subject: Exclusive! - All UK Bungians
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 11:06:17 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Nov8.11617.0>
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Elisabeth suggested a meeting of us all as follows:

In message <199810181944.UAA14190@saturn.nildram.co.uk>, Toby
<toby@northlights.co.uk> writes
>
>A suggestion to ALL UK Bungians / Bunginians...
>
>MIGHT there possibly be a remote chance of us getting together, 
>somehow, somewhere during the next 10 months.... a reasonably central 
>location for all of us to make a determined effort to meet up.
>I would so much like to be able to take with me to USA a face, a 
>picture, a personality, a bit of YOUR own work of ALL of you here in 
>UK....just to make these folks in USA realize that WE in UK is a 
>force to be reckoned with.

If we are to progress this (which I think is a good idea, or I wouldn't
be writing now), we need to have some idea of where everyone is.
Possibly we should each send Elisabeth a note of our location so an
appropriate meeting point can be found.  I suspect that most of us live
from Birmingham and southwards.  If so, a meeting place in London would
be appropriate.  (e.g. it is cheaper for me to go from Glasgow to London
than to Birmingham [sorry Brandon])

Second.  We need some reason for ourselves to meet.  Elisabeth has her
reason, but the others of us need to get something from it too.  So,
I'll suggest something for you all to react to.  It appears from the
correspondence on the list that there is USofA interest in British and
European techniques, especially leaded ones.  How about a meeting for
the exchange of traditional techniques.  I'll suggest one that I have
slightly reworked for myself - French embossing, but without white acid,
or "bite and grind".  If we each were to choose a topic or method we use
and about which we were willing to talk, we could set up an interesting
one day meeting which would benefit us all.  In addition if we brought
our portfolios, we could share our work, get ideas for other work, and
generally enthuse each other.  This way we all can benefit and justify
the cost of travelling to the meeting.

What do you all think?


Steve Richard, in Glasgow 
(Scotland (- to distinguish the location from any other in the UK or
abroad!)
-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 03:59:12 1998
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Subject: Fwd: Bio # 68  Karen Klomparens
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 06:34:39 EST
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Yes, I want to know more also!  I always believed, thru reading, that not much
$ is made at shows that do not specifically showcase crafts first.  Hence, if
people go to music festivals, they are not very interested in spending money
on crafts.
Karen, have you been able to sell enough for it to be worthwhile for you
attend?
In PA we have the Philadelphia Folk Festival in a small town called
Schwenksville for at least the last 20 years (that I have known about it) or
even longer.  There is also a Blues Festival which I believe is somewhat local
also.  I know that people do sell crafts but I have never considered selling
there.
R.S.V.P.
Lenore

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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
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Subject: Re: Bio # 68  Karen Klomparens
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 02:57:21 -0600
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>  My favorite shows to do are the music festivals where you set up
> right in front of your camper for the weekend,

Oh, that sounds fun!  Tell me more.  Where do they have these shows?  I
have never seen or been to one...and I have lived in Ca, Wa, Ga....

Suzanne
-- 
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 04:17:42 1998
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Subject: Re: Chihuly Special
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 07:06:17 EST
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Maureen and Bungies,
Checked for the Chihuly Over Venice special on Monday night.  For locals, it
is on channel 12.  F.Y.I. the TV Week Magazine in the Phila. Inquirer has it
listed to be shown at 9:00 pm, as opposed to 8:00 pm.  Thought you would like
to know this Maureen and locals.
Sincerely,
Lenore
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 04:28:35 1998
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: BMarhon@aol.com
Subject: Re: How depressed........
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 11:43:06 +0000
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It seems to me that there is a severe lack of instruction in the use of
lead came in the USofA outside the "professional" glassworking
community.

There is no reason why lead came should be difficult.  It requires a few
different methods in respect of the material characteristics, just as
the characteristics of glass needs to be respected.  The lead can be
even, and doesn't require much practice to make it so.  It's cheaper
than having a local shop frame in zinc.  Lead will resist corrosion much
longer than zinc.

My understanding that zinc came is not pure zinc (who could afford
that?), but electroplated mild steel.  If so, the slightest break in the
coating will enable the steel to begin corroding.  In corroding, steel
expands, so leading to the creaping breakdown of the whole structure.

If lead came framing of copper foil panels is seen to be innappropriate,
some other compatable framing material should be searched for.  I know
that wood framing is often used (sometimes in conjunction with zinc! -
now there is a belt and suspenders solution!), but is a further
distancing from the basic materials of the panel.

Why don't people use wide foil on the edges?  
        Is there too much heat build up?
        Is it too difficult to maintain an even beading on the foil?
        Is it still too weak to support hangers?
In short, I don't understand the automatic reaching for the zinc.

Steve

In message <1998Nov7.214725.0@?>, BMarhon@aol.com writes
>Daniel - Please take the lead came off and replace with zinc.  You will feel
>much better about it and maybe won't even be depressed anymore when you see
>how good it will look.  It sounds like you are happy with the look of the
>glass work itself and the came  isn't hard to remove (is it?)
>
>I picked up my arched panel yesterday (that I had them frame in zinc at the
>local store).  I had originally put lead came around it, but was a few inches
>shy.  It looked bad too because the outside wasn't completely even.  The zinc
>finishes it off beautifully!
>
>Brenda
>
><

-- 
Steve Richard

s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 06:51:18 1998
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From: bill <shmilly@netcom.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: flux cleaner
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 09:40:10 -0500
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well, it's sunday and i forgot to buy some "neutra 5000" (which was
recommended to me) to wash my copper
foiled piece after soldering....(the stained glass stores are closed
today!).....i haven't soldered the piece yet but was wondering what else i
might use to make sure the piece is cleaned properly after
soldering.......i want to patina the piece later on and want to make sure
the flux has been cleaned off........should i just wait until tomorrow and
get the proper cleaner?.......thanks in advance.......Bill




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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 07:21:46 1998
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From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: paperweight filled with shells
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 10:06:44 EST
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Ahhhh, this bring up a question I have had for a couple years.  I made a
candle holder from 4 - 2 X 6 rectangle bevels filled with shells.  I was not
able to clean the flux off as well as I wanted because of the narrowness of
the opening.  Also when I added the piece of glass to seal the top, flux
"dribbled" in.  The only way I found out was the small bit of sand remaining
on the shells stuck to the flux.  From a distance it looks fine, but up close
you can see the bit of flux on the inside.  What is the best way to deal with
flux on a sealed piece?  

Another thing I saw that looked great, was cutting an approximately 3" setion
from a bottle, adding a bottom, putting something inside such as shells and
sand or glass globs and sealing the top.  Also a paperweight.  I saved a
cobalt blue Arizona Iced Tea bottle and want to try it as soon as I get a
bottle cutter.  

Thanks in advance for the advice.

(patric)IA  
(I told Patrick the only difference between us was the K and the IA, smart
man, he did not believe me)  
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 07:52:52 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Kathy Mather <katmath@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Dremals
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 10:20:58 -0500
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Kathy Mather wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> When you use a Dremel to drill a hole in glass, I know that your
> supposed to use clay and make a water dam. Any special type of clay? And
> is there anything else that I should know, before I go off and break my
> need piece of work? Thanks for the tips,
>                                                   Kathy
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

you'll want to use a diamond bit to cut the glass with a dremel. then
when it's on, squirt water at it, to keep it wet.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 08:21:55 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: paperweight filled with shells
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 10:33:23 -0500
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CncptThnkr@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Ahhhh, this bring up a question I have had for a couple years.  I made a
> candle holder from 4 - 2 X 6 rectangle bevels filled with shells.  I was not
> able to clean the flux off as well as I wanted because of the narrowness of
> the opening.  Also when I added the piece of glass to seal the top, flux
> "dribbled" in.  The only way I found out was the small bit of sand remaining
> on the shells stuck to the flux.  From a distance it looks fine, but up close
> you can see the bit of flux on the inside.  What is the best way to deal with
> flux on a sealed piece?
> 
> Another thing I saw that looked great, was cutting an approximately 3" setion
> from a bottle, adding a bottom, putting something inside such as shells and
> sand or glass globs and sealing the top.  Also a paperweight.  I saved a
> cobalt blue Arizona Iced Tea bottle and want to try it as soon as I get a
> bottle cutter.
> 
> Thanks in advance for the advice.
> 
> (patric)IA
> (I told Patrick the only difference between us was the K and the IA, smart
> man, he did not believe me)
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i've always wondered that myself. i wonder if you were to shake it
violently, if the sand would absorb the flux, or wipe it away. or would
that make it spread further....?  i guess next time using a q-tip to
apply the flux; then flat soldering it with the piece vertical. this way
everything will travel downard, and hopefully not inward.

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 09:01:31 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: bill <shmilly@netcom.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: flux cleaner
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 10:29:24 -0500
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Precedence: bulk

bill wrote:
> 
> well, it's sunday and i forgot to buy some "neutra 5000" (which was
> recommended to me) to wash my copper
> foiled piece after soldering....(the stained glass stores are closed
> today!).....i haven't soldered the piece yet but was wondering what else i
> might use to make sure the piece is cleaned properly after
> soldering.......i want to patina the piece later on and want to make sure
> the flux has been cleaned off........should i just wait until tomorrow and
> get the proper cleaner?.......thanks in advance.......Bill
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


if you wait too long, it may not take a patina at all regardless how
flux free it is. if you don't want to take a chance with the new stuff.
use baking soda and joy. then use denatured alchohol to finish it off.
this technique will even let jax copper go on right. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 09:01:31 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!dro
From: "Daniel" <dro@teleport.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Depressing lead....came...et al...
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 07:49:32 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov7.234932.0>
Precedence: bulk

I got up this morning and took another look at my fiasco of yesterday.....

You know what ........I'ts not so bad.......

Looks pretty good actually....

I know what mistakes I made with the lead...

I practiced cutting it late last night..........with my own homemade lead
cutter....

And it works 1000% better than those wire cutters...

I think I am WAY over sensitive....I know where little tiny errors are that
don't show...
and where ones are that do show....

I had three people look at my work....(none of them do glass work)........
and they all thought it looks great....

In all fairness this is my first time using lead....and I'll get much
better...

So today I'm not so depressed......

Thanks to everyone for the support....

P.S. My patina came out yummy........

Daniel  in Oregon........

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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 09:32:14 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon
From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: How depressed........
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 11:21:48 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov8.162148.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Steve (and everyone else):

<< Why don't people use wide foil on the edges? >>

I, for one, am embarassed to admit I never even thought of using wide foil on
the edge.  Will have to give it a try.

As for lead came and zinc framing, in all the classes I have taken (5 or 6 six
to eight week series each) not one instructor has addressed either.  And none
of them mentioned putting wire around the edges of lamps, etc. or reinforcing
large panels.  Most of my reinforcing instruction has been  from this group
and other reading on the net.  

My second project was a 24 x 36 panel with no reinforcing.  It was made mostly
in class, took two months to make, and when it was finished seemed very
flexible to me.  I framed it in a wood pop-lock frame and cracked it in two
places while framing it.

I am taking another series of classes starting next week and am only allowed
to make a panel.  I asked whether they would show how to frame in zinc as part
of the instruction.  No, that's a separate one day workshop and when they get
enough people who want to learn it they will call me.

So, anyone who wants to educate those of us who have not had the benefit of
thorough instruction, feel free!

Brenda
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 09:36:10 1998
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X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: CncptThnkr@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: paperweight filled with shells
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 08:05:27 PST
Message-ID: <m0zcXLE-00009iC@daver.bungi.com>
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[In the message entitled "paperweight filled with shells" on Nov  8, 10:06, CncptThnkr@aol.com writes:]

> you can see the bit of flux on the inside.  What is the best way to deal with
> flux on a sealed piece?  

Why not unsolder it and try again.


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 11:10:34 1998
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X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen
From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: flux cleaner
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 09:18:50 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <199811081718.JAA25394@ns2.vphos.net>
Precedence: bulk

Baking soda and water will also neutalize.
Cindy


>well, it's sunday and i forgot to buy some "neutra 5000" (which was
>recommended to me) to wash my copper
>foiled piece after soldering....(the stained glass stores are closed
>today!).....i haven't soldered the piece yet but was wondering what else i
>might use to make sure the piece is cleaned properly after
>soldering.......i want to patina the piece later on and want to make sure
>the flux has been cleaned off........should i just wait until tomorrow and
>get the proper cleaner?.......thanks in advance.......Bill
>
>
>
>
>----
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>
>

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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 13:24:16 1998
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From: CWWSLW@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: paperweight filled with shells
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 13:21:06 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov8.18216.0>
Precedence: bulk

Why would you need flux on the inside to begin with?

Susan
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 13:31:39 1998
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: Kathy Mather <katmath@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Dremals
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 16:10:43 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov8.111043.0>
References: <<1998Nov8.33551.0>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi Kathy,

If the piece of glass is small enough, just put it in a shallow plastic
dish (like tupperware) and cover with 1/2 inch of water, do this before
it is foiled and soldered together.  In case it does break, (not often
with this method) it is easy to replace.  I do this all the time,
haven't broken a piece in ages.  Even is fine if it is foiled up
already, just don't leave it in to soak.

Lee

Kathy Mather wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> When you use a Dremel to drill a hole in glass, I know that your
> supposed to use clay and make a water dam. Any special type of clay? And
> is there anything else that I should know, before I go off and break my
> need piece of work? Thanks for the tips,
>                                                   Kathy
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 14:03:46 1998
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: Yegnim@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Chihuly Special
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 16:19:54 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov8.111954.0>
References: <<1998Nov8.12617.0>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

It is on at 10pm eastern time in Central Florida (Comcast cable) channel
3 PBS. Monday

Yegnim@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Maureen and Bungies,
> Checked for the Chihuly Over Venice special on Monday night.  For locals, it
> is on channel 12.  F.Y.I. the TV Week Magazine in the Phila. Inquirer has it
> listed to be shown at 9:00 pm, as opposed to 8:00 pm.  Thought you would like
> to know this Maureen and locals.
> Sincerely,
> Lenore
> ----
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 14:37:53 1998
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From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: CWWSLW@aol.com, Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: paperweight filled with shells (sand and flux residue)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 17:01:17 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov8.22117.0>
Precedence: bulk

It was a few years ago, but I bet I ran a bead of solder both inside and
outside when I was working on it.  It never occurred to me there would be a
problem with the flux residue.  I do remember the "container" being too tall
and narrow to clean the inside very well.  I was just wondering now if there
was something that could be used that did not need scrubbing and would remove
flux in hard to reach spots.

Thanks for all your ideas.
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 15:12:07 1998
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From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, CWWSLW@aol.com
Subject: Re: paperweight filled with shells 
Date: Sun,  8 Nov 1998 17:17:59, -0500
Message-ID: <199811082217.RAB10622@mime3.prodigy.com>
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>>Why would you need flux on the inside to begin with?

Susan<<

You don't, so use far less flux if you want to avoid getting it on 
the inside. By far less I mean almost no flux. Use an almost dry of 
flux Q-tip if you like.

Also, make a solder pass and wait for it to cool before going over it 
again. Heat tends to drive the flux in and you do not want that. The 
heat is why the inside flux seems to be in little splatters.

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026
Want to talk glass? Join E-mail list:     glass@intrastar.net
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 15:58:35 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon
From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Marking Pen
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 17:36:19 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov8.223619.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi All -
Just tried a new marking pen I bought at Walgreens and it works great on dark
glass (my old white one finally bit the dust).  It's Sakura Pen-Touch Gold
extra-fine, price $2.99.  It's the kind you shake and press on the nib to get
started but it keeps flowing really smooth and doesn't stop in the middle of a
line.  Holds up to the cutting oil and I had a piece soaking in water for
about an hour and it didn't float away.  The grinder test still remains!

Brenda
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 16:12:45 1998
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X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray
From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: chihuly air time in Pacific NW
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 15:31:19 -0800
Message-ID: <199811082331.PAA24419@oceanus.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

Just went online and found out the air time for the NW on KCTS is 9 pm on
MOnday night.

C.

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 16:37:34 1998
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X-Path: escape.ca!bethan
From: "D. B. Theunissen" <bethan@escape.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: came
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 18:20:03 -0600 (CST)
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Precedence: bulk

Hi 

I asked some safety questions some time ago, and was deluged with such
wonderful kindness and ideas and thoughtfulness, that I was somewhat
overwhelmed.  Thank you all.  Because I am so busy, I was not able to
respond to each one.  Sorry.

I am fascinated by the 'lead came, zinc came' discussion.  I have only ever
used lead came, and wondered what other types there are.  Are the other
types as good as lead, and how do they compare pricewise?  If they are not
too expensive, why do people not use them all the time given that lead
involves such health risks?


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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 18:01:29 1998
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From: Mosfunland@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: TV Tuesday
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 20:33:58 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov9.13358.0>
Precedence: bulk

And while looking at the TV book  for ANOTHER iceskating show for my mom to
watch, I notice there is a special about Frank Lloyd Wright on Tuesday night,
Public Television 9 pm (Phila, NJ areas)..on the planet Earth.

Maureen  
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 19:01:44 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Bio #69 Patricia    {Pat(IA)}
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 21:18:43 -0500
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Precedence: bulk

Pat(RICIA) wrotes
>(For Elisabeth's info, I am in Detroit, take your left hand, fingers held
>together, see how it looks like a mitten?  ok, now you have a map of
>Michigan.
>Down where your thumb is connected on the far right side of your left
>hand.....that is where Detroit is.  As far as I know, only the residents of
>Michigan use body parts to point out geographic locations.)

Someone in Indiana told me his state looks like a boot, and he lives up 
in the part where you pull it up onto the back of your leg! But I guess 
Indiana's close to Michigan, isn't it?

Loved your bio, Pat, you sound like someone I ought to know. Hope you 
make it to PA; I will be holding Elisabeth for ransom.

Suzy
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 19:20:00 1998
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X-Path: email.msn.com!bird_cage
From: "Doug Parrott" <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
To: "bungi group" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Dremals
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 18:39:05 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov8.10395.0>
Precedence: bulk

I actually did that today.  And it worked great.  Yesterday I used some
silly putty type stuff to make a water dam.   That worked good too.

Cheryl
-----Original Message-----
From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: Kathy Mather <katmath@hotmail.com>
Date: Sunday, November 08, 1998 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: Dremals


>Hi Kathy,
>
>If the piece of glass is small enough, just put it in a shallow plastic
>dish (like tupperware) and cover with 1/2 inch of water, do this before
>it is foiled and soldered together.  In case it does break, (not often
>with this method) it is easy to replace.  I do this all the time,
>haven't broken a piece in ages.  Even is fine if it is foiled up
>already, just don't leave it in to soak.
>
>Lee
>
>Kathy Mather wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>> When you use a Dremel to drill a hole in glass, I know that your
>> supposed to use clay and make a water dam. Any special type of clay? And
>> is there anything else that I should know, before I go off and break my
>> need piece of work? Thanks for the tips,
>>                                                   Kathy
>>
>> ______________________________________________________
>> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



----
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 19:34:58 1998
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From: "Doug Parrott" <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
To: "bungi group" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: chihuly air time in Pacific NW
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 18:40:39 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov8.104039.0>
Precedence: bulk

Thanks for the info Carol.

I'm hoping to watch it.

Cheryl
-----Original Message-----
From: Carol Swann <seaspray@mail.island.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Sunday, November 08, 1998 4:17 PM
Subject: chihuly air time in Pacific NW


>Just went online and found out the air time for the NW on KCTS is 9 pm on
>MOnday night.
>
>C.
>
>Carol Swann
>Synergy Glass & Creative
>http://www.igga.org/synergy
>seaspray@island.net
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 19:38:14 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Bio # 67 Nancy Kitchen
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 21:46:11 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov8.164611.0>
Precedence: bulk

Enjoyed your bio, Nancy.  =

Yes, there are companies
that can do resist multiples
for you.  I lost my local source
a while back and tried a =

company out in California,
but was really appalled at
their high prices.  (I was led
to believe it would cost less
than $50 for what I needed...
cost $184 instead.  Yikes!)
So, I would also be glad
for some referrals.

Thanks!

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 19:54:26 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Daniel" <dro@teleport.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: How depressed........
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 21:46:10 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov8.164610.0>
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Daniel-

Don't worry about the 45 degree
angle... why bother?  It'll be soldered
anyway.  We just cut the ends square.
And build your window into the lead
border from the beginning, don't
add it after you're all finished.  And
solder the copper foil joints that
abutt to the lead right onto the =

lead for stability otherwise sections
of the came will pull away from =

the panel.  Does that make sense?
As for stretching the lead, even I
can do that without a lead vise.  Cut
about a five foot length of lead, tweak
a bend in one end to stand on, bear
your weight down on it while pulling
up on the other end of the came.  I
usually squeeze that end into my
breaking pliers for a good grip.  You
should feel the lead "give" about an
inch or so, not too much though.  The
more you stretch it the more you
weaken it.  Then keep it taut until
you lay it flat on your work table or
you'll bend kinks into it again!

Hope that helps a bit - and don't
worry, your mother will love the piece!
Moms are like that.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 20:33:48 1998
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Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 23:18:23 EST
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My mistake... Not interested. Thankyou.
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From owner-glass Sun Nov  8 23:36:00 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: bethan@escape.ca, glass@bungi.com, glass@intrastar.net
Subject: Came
Date: Mon,  9 Nov 1998 01:59:43, -0500
Message-ID: <199811090659.BAA10636@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>I am fascinated by the 'lead came, zinc came' discussion.  I have 
only ever
used lead came, and wondered what other types there are.  Are the 
other
types as good as lead, and how do they compare pricewise?  If they 
are not
too expensive, why do people not use them all the time given that 
lead
involves such health risks?<<

Zinc came is about 150% the cost of lead came and brass came is about 
200% the cost of lead came. Copper came is rare and the most costly. 
As the total price of a SG window the difference in price is small- 
so cost is only a small consideration.

Lead can be formed without expensive tools to complex shapes and so 
it is the most desirable for complex shapes. Brass and to a lessor 
extent zinc is limited in the degree it can be bent without 
distorsion. A complex interior design might be all but impossible 
with brass.

I am not sure that lead involves the health risks that you imply. 
Leaded windows that are not licked or rubbed on broken skin do not 
pose unusual health problems. The problems involving safety and lead 
occur mostly in the manafacturing process.

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 02:09:44 1998
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X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones
From: "B. S. Jones" <b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: How depressed........
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 09:32:25 -0000
Message-ID: <1998Nov9.93225.0>
Precedence: bulk

>Last night I attempted to border the thing in lead came....


>sigh..............fiasco..........

>I couldn't get the came to cut welll.........as far as trying to get 45
>degree angles to butt them to each other....
>forget it.....I ended up just making the ends square....

>type flat part for cutting wire etc.....but it does crush the hell out
of
>the lead came.

I have never yet had a knife for came or used one. I have always used
electrical side cutters probably as you described.For outside came 45
degrees I cut each side in turn to 45 degrees then simply flex the back
until it breaks off. For other types of came I do similar things ie cut
it a bit at a time in the walls where I can get in with the cutters then
flex the rest until it breaks.
I wrap my panels outside with sixteen gauge tinned copper wire soldered
all round then put the outside came over that soldered wherever possible
to the solder already in the panel. I have never stretched that either
as it is not load bearing for individual pieces of glass but more for
the whole structure.The wire aleviates any forces on it that will cause
it to stretch with time.
Brandon 
UK

ps. I have now put on my asbestos under pants ready for the oldies
comments about what I have said above.


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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 05:40:16 1998
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X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep
From: "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Lead came - surrouinds - and all that!
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 12:54:51 -0000
Message-ID: <1998Nov9.125451.0>
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Hello all!

Interesting! The different ways people do things!

I have always assembled leaded windows from one corner outwards and upwards
(away from me) with two sides of the surround being the first components to
go in place. As the glass is assembled it's held into these fixed pieces
with horseshoe nails to keep it firm. The two remaining sides are fitted
last. So the surround is part of the main construction and not added later.
All the interior leads (or solder lines if I'm using foil) are soldered to
the surround. Dare I say 'It works for me!'

I have always used a sharpened paint scraper to cut the lead. As you bother
to keep it sharp there is little distortion to the came. I have tried
electrical cutters but they caused two much damage for me. Brendon's
approach is interesting and I will try it! To cut straight across in one go
wasn't terribly sensible of me was it! Still that was early days.

I'm delighted to know that lead is not as poisonous as they say! Does
everbody agree! I was getting a little paranoid myself.

I must say that I usually use zinc for surrounds and interiors as well if
the design isn't curvy. It seems to be stronger - especially for doors. As
Bob said the cost of the came is not significant in the total cost of
the work! I expect someone will tell me that lead is stronger!

I usually mitre all corners but it's fair comment - who will know if it's
covered in solder - there's no reason why you shouldn't cut it straight!

I have always found zinc came to be all zinc - I've never come across zinc
plated steel! (It might be different in the US!)

I think many of us find a way that works satisfactorily for us and get stuck
in that rut - I certainly do. Still I suppose that's what bungi is all
about.

Please be gentle with me - I'm happy in my own little world!!


Regards        Brian







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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 06:14:40 1998
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: non glass humor and a bevel question
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 08:34:32 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov9.33432.0>
References: <<1998Nov7.135110.0>>
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CncptThnkr@aol.com wrote:

>
>
>  I also would
> love some ideas how to use them besides putting them together as a star.  I am
> going to have about 10 evenings before Christmas to get some serious glass
> work done.  How do you think these bevels would look set inside box lids?
>
> Thank you guys for all the advice, you are all wonderful.
>
> Pat
>

I'm sure a diamond bevel would look nice in a box lid.  They could also be used in
the sides of a candle shelter.  Or you could use them to design a small
panel/large suncatcher.  How about a half circle of three on each side of a small
panel?  Fill in the center geometrically with various clears like glue chip,
granite, etc..  Or put four in the center, point to point and work out into a
circle.  This is the kind of thing where I take the bevels, a large piece of
paper, a pencil, a ruler, small t-square and go to it.  To get a good circle, I
trace around a dinner plate!  (Platters make interesting ovals)

Dorothy K (back from three strenuous days of craft fairing and catching up on my
bungi reading)


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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 07:16:30 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Lead came - poison?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 09:54:39 +0000
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> I'm delighted to know that lead is not as poisonous as they say! Does
> everbody agree! I was getting a little paranoid myself.

Hi, Brian.

As someone else here said this morning, it's not dangerous unless 
your clients are going to be licking the cabinet inserts you've made. 
However, it's dangerous to you, since you work with it, get it on 
your hands, breathe in the fumes of soldering, etc.  That's why you 
should practice good working habits (don't eat or smoke while 
working, since whatever's on your hands would transfer to your 
mouth), wash carefully afterwards, keep your studio operation 
separate from your home, wear specific clothing in the studio and 
change to other clothing when re-entering your home ... and wash your 
studio clothing separately from the rest of the laundry, be sure your 
studio's well-ventilated, etc. Most of it's common sense.

Albert
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 07:37:55 1998
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: How depressed........
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 09:14:50 -0500
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Dani says,
>
>Don't worry about the 45 degree
>angle... why bother?  It'll be soldered
>anyway.  We just cut the ends square.
>And build your window into the lead
>border from the beginning, don't
>add it after you're all finished.  And
>solder the copper foil joints that
>abutt to the lead right onto the =
>lead for stability otherwise sections
>of the came will pull away from =

Hi Dani, good to hear from you!

Years ago someone told me I could build my copper foiled panel right into 
the zinc from the beginning, and I swear I did it for a while. And that 
it worked fine.

Someone said, "but won't the panel be warped from going a bit higher into 
the zinc at the edges?" And I had no good answer. As a matter of fact it 
was a question asked of the folks at "Stained Glass News" and they said 
it could not be done. If you tell me it can, I will believe YOU and go 
back to the old way.

Are you still up on the scaffolding??

Suzanne


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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 07:49:34 1998
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From: Bob the Dinosaur <shyguy@vdot.net>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Idiot Box tonite
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 10:20:08 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov9.5208.0>
Organization: Cox's Mower Service
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Don't know about where you all live, but in the NY metro area -
9:00pm - NETWORKS
-------------------------------------------------------
 
 PBS - CHIHULY OVER VENICE  - Dale Chihuly collaborates with
	  master glass blowers on a collection of
	  chandeliers.(CC)(TVG)

-- 
Adults are obsolete children
		Theodore Geisel

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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 08:56:38 1998
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From: "Charles Spitzer" <Charles_Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Idiot Box tonite
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 08:59:16 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Nov9.15916.0>
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this part of the new hdtv rollout for PBS nationwide. it should be at 9PM
tonight everywhere in the US. another show that might be interesting is a 2
part frank lloyd wright history. shown tuesday and wednesday this week also
at 9PM on PBS.

regards,
charlie
Phoenix, AZ
-----Original Message-----
From: shyguy@vdot.net <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Monday, November 09, 1998 8:20 AM
Subject: Idiot Box tonite


>Don't know about where you all live, but in the NY metro area -
>9:00pm - NETWORKS
>-------------------------------------------------------
>
> PBS - CHIHULY OVER VENICE  - Dale Chihuly collaborates with
>   master glass blowers on a collection of
>   chandeliers.(CC)(TVG)
>
>--
>Adults are obsolete children
> Theodore Geisel
>
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 09:50:50 1998
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From: Mosfunland@aol.com
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Subject: Re: How depressed........
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 12:03:47 EST
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In a message dated 11/9/98 5:10:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk writes:

<<  ready for the oldies
 comments about what I have said above. >>

Hmmmm I think you'll need the asbestos underpants more for using such a
descriptive word for the "experienced  ones".  Better just dig a hole and
climb in it, I sense small artillery fire.....

Maureen
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 10:16:17 1998
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From: "B. S. Jones" <b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk>
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: How depressed........
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 17:08:26 -0000
Message-ID: <1998Nov9.17826.0>
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-----Original Message-----
From: Mosfunland@aol.com [mailto:Mosfunland@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, November 09, 1998 5:04 PM
To: b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk; glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: How depressed........


In a message dated 11/9/98 5:10:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk writes:

<<  ready for the oldies
 comments about what I have said above. >>

Hmmmm I think you'll need the asbestos underpants more for using such a
descriptive word for the "experienced  ones".  Better just dig a hole
and
climb in it, I sense small artillery fire.....

Maureen

Ok,
I surrender    "Great exalted Experienced Ones" it is..

Brandon
UK

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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 10:21:40 1998
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From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
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Subject: Re: Lead came - surrouinds - and all that jazz
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 12:21:24 EST
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Precedence: bulk

Bad news Brian, I am in your little world too, same way I was taught, start
with 2 pieces of metal framing and work from there, and I use it for both
leaded and copper foiled panels.  None of them have self destructed yet, so
guess I am doing ok. (or the gods of glass are still smiling on me)

Pat
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 10:47:43 1998
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From: tifstyorig@juno.com (Diane W Manchester)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Mosaic as Glass Panel
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 12:55:57 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov9.75557.0>
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I am toying with the idea of making a larger sized panel (say, 24" x 48")
using a mosaic method.  For example, instead of using copper foil or came
to assemble the piece, I was going to apply the cut glass pieces to a
single sheet of clear glass and then grout the whole piece.  I would then
frame the finished product.
Anyone see a problem with this?  Has anyone tried it other than for a
flat table top?  I was wondering if the grout might eventually crack or
fall off in some places and weaken the piece, and I wondered if it would
be strong enough to hang vertically for years and years.
Thoughts?????

Diane Manchester
Tiffany Styled Originals
Carthage, NC
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 10:56:27 1998
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: <CncptThnkr@aol.com>, "glass bungi line" <Glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: suzy holding elisabeth for ransom and thanks to you all
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:05:35 -0500
Message-ID: <199811091809.NAA27354@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

>Hey Suzy,
>
>>Hope you make it to PA; I will be holding Elisabeth for ransom.
>
>Ransom?  How much?  We have the almost real diamonite tiara we could take to
>the pawn shop if Patrick is willing to give it up.  After his initial
>performance of swan lake to the oh frit song (or vice versa if I have it
>backwards) he may never need it again.  
>
>I want to thank everyone for the bevel ideas, now I need to stock up on my
>diamond shape bevels and get working.  Again, I kiss the ground you guys walk
>on.  (please sweep up the glass chips first, thank you)

Hi Patricia,

The best-known part of Swan Lake is the "Hello Mudda, Hello Fadda" song 
from the 60's. Or was it the 50's? I nominate Patrick to do this one 
while skipping over glass frits in his diamonite tiara, and he can make 
up his own words. 

Ransom? I think Emeraldine should be able to come up with some kind of 
jewel-encrusted tutu to go with that tiara. After Patrick is through 
dancing we can use it to start a fund for Elisabeth to travel 
cross-country. Just think of all the people willing to pay for a look at 
it!

Suzy
      
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 11:12:20 1998
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From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: suzy@ComCAT.COM, Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: suzy holding elisabeth for ransom and thanks to you all
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 12:53:42 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov9.175342.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hey Suzy,

>Hope you make it to PA; I will be holding Elisabeth for ransom.

Ransom?  How much?  We have the almost real diamonite tiara we could take to
the pawn shop if Patrick is willing to give it up.  After his initial
performance of swan lake to the oh frit song (or vice versa if I have it
backwards) he may never need it again.  

I want to thank everyone for the bevel ideas, now I need to stock up on my
diamond shape bevels and get working.  Again, I kiss the ground you guys walk
on.  (please sweep up the glass chips first, thank you)

Pat
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 11:31:44 1998
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X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro
From: Carol Tombro <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>
To: suzycomcatcom <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: How depressed........
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 13:19:43 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov9.81943.0>
References: <<199811091418.JAA03053@uz.ComCAT.COM>>
Organization: Home
Precedence: bulk

Dani and Suzanne,

I'd appreciate any input into framing "as you go" with zinc or lead.  It
makes so much sense that there must be something wrong with it.  If there are
any pitfalls to look out for, I'd appreciate hearing about them as I'm about
to start a small panel "your way".

Carol T

suzycomcatcom wrote:

> Dani says,
> >
> >Don't worry about the 45 degree
> >angle... why bother?  It'll be soldered
> >anyway.  We just cut the ends square.
> >And build your window into the lead
> >border from the beginning, don't
> >add it after you're all finished.  And
> >solder the copper foil joints that
> >abutt to the lead right onto the =
> >lead for stability otherwise sections
> >of the came will pull away from =
>
> Hi Dani, good to hear from you!
>
> Years ago someone told me I could build my copper foiled panel right into
> the zinc from the beginning, and I swear I did it for a while. And that
> it worked fine.
>
> Someone said, "but won't the panel be warped from going a bit higher into
> the zinc at the edges?" And I had no good answer. As a matter of fact it
> was a question asked of the folks at "Stained Glass News" and they said
> it could not be done. If you tell me it can, I will believe YOU and go
> back to the old way.
>
> Are you still up on the scaffolding??
>
> Suzanne
>
> ----
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 11:58:57 1998
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Supplier for candle cups needed!
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 10:46:47 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov9.24647.0>
Organization: Stained Glass Artists
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,

I am trying to help someone find a supplier of "assorted style" candle
cups (filigree and brass). They need to be a certain diameter. Opening
cannot be much more or much less than 5/8" in diameter. These are needed
for a Menorah. So anyone who can help it would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

Pam



--
*********************************
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Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director:
Advertising & Marketing


Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

Join our live glass chat!
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 12:27:56 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk, glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: How depressed........
Date: Mon,  9 Nov 1998 14:10:01, -0500
Message-ID: <199811091910.OAA12372@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>Ok,
I surrender    "Great exalted Experienced Ones" it is..

Brandon
UK<<

Much, much better. I for one will never hold your youth and 
inexperience against you.

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026
Want to talk glass? Join E-mail list:     glass@intrastar.net
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 12:35:13 1998
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From: ksu alumni <js14529@navix.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: re: idiot box
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 12:41:11 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov9.64111.0>
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chihuly over venice is 8pm tonight in nebraska, maybe its 9pm eastern.
8pm central time         marty
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 12:52:02 1998
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Mirrors
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 14:40:49 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov9.194049.0>
Precedence: bulk

	
Just had a mirror related disaster.  As we were packing for a show, my 
wife and noticed many of our mirrors had ugly black spots near the seams.

In my ignorant bliss, I took no particular precautions with the mirror edge 
after cutting and grinding.  Clearly this was a mistake!  This batch will have
to be given as gifts (to people we don't like).

In the future, what special care needs to be taken with mirrors?  What causes
the ugly black spots?  Clearly they "grow" for some reason.  Will they
eventually
take over the whole surface?

Thanks for all your knowledgeable answers in advance.

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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 12:56:04 1998
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X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep
From: "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Mosaic as Glass Panel
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 20:05:31 -0000
Message-ID: <1998Nov9.20531.0>
Precedence: bulk

>I am toying with the idea of making a larger sized panel (say, 24" x 48")
>using a mosaic method.  For example, instead of using copper foil or came
>to assemble the piece, I was going to apply the cut glass pieces to a
>single sheet of clear glass and then grout the whole piece.  I would then
>frame the finished product.
>Anyone see a problem with this?  Has anyone tried it other than for a
>flat table top?  I was wondering if the grout might eventually crack or
>fall off in some places and weaken the piece, and I wondered if it would
>be strong enough to hang vertically for years and years.
>Thoughts?????
>


Diane

Great idea!

 Have you seen 'Glas Design     -    Wall Pictres' ISBN3-928004-19-0
(1994)? Similar sort of sizes to that which you mentioned!

They suggest 1/8" window glass as backing.

Attach one copy of your pattern to the back of the glass as a guide.

Your cutting needs to be up to par though and chipping from grinding should
be avoided as well. They suggest 1/2 - 1 mm clearance between pieces.

Don't try to work with too many pieces at a time until you are used to the
glass glue.

Don't forget to allow for the overlap of the frame when you do the design.

Grout is just grout!

Let me know how you get on and maybe I'll have a go as well!

Good luck!

Brian

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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 13:17:21 1998
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: suzy holding elisabeth for ransom and thanks to you all
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 15:06:22 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov9.10622.0>
References: <<199811091809.NAA27354@uz.ComCAT.COM>>
Precedence: bulk



suzy@comcat.com wrote:

>
>
> Ransom? I think Emeraldine should be able to come up with some kind of
> jewel-encrusted tutu to go with that tiara. After Patrick is through
> dancing we can use it to start a fund for Elisabeth to travel
> cross-country. Just think of all the people willing to pay for a look at
> it!
>
> Suzy
>

  Actually, dearest Pierre has an idea for a tutu, but I'm not sure it was jewel
encrusted.  However, since it is only in the conceptual stage, we can discuss it.

Emeraldine

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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 13:19:56 1998
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: non glass humor and a bevel question
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 14:59:44 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov9.95944.0>
References: <<199811091534.KAA10916@uz.ComCAT.COM>>
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suzy@comcat.com wrote:

> >
> >Dorothy K (back from three strenuous days of craft fairing and catching up
> >on my
> >bungi reading)
> >
> Hey Dorothy, how did you do? I also had two strenuous days but the sales
> were great! Sold not one butterfly or dragonfly,
>
> Suzy

  Let's say I am happy.  It was two different shows.  Did them with my husband,
so while he worked the customers. I was in back foiling, so I could go home and
solder....in fact, Saturday night, we made a butterfly, and small piece with a
Victorian feel centered on a 2 inch bevel, a small angel tree ornament and
remade an iris that we had sold Saturday.  Sold 3 of them on Sunday!  Sold a
nice iris made of glass I bought this summer at the Youghigheny store.  Sold
picture frames, tree ornaments, a clock, a lamp, cardinals, snowflakes....
Have special order stepping stones and a turkey to do.  Someone else "says"
they will send me a picture of their cat so I can do a mosaic of it....
And I woke up Saturday with a stuffy nose and now have a full blown cold, so
I'm home sniffling today.  At least caught up with the stuff I taped this
weekend (Breeder's Cup, Skate Amerca -- I'm a big fan of both horse racing and
skating)  Since I'm home in the light, I really need to go out now and clean
off a stepping stone...

Dorothy K

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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 13:48:37 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Christies' slow supplier
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:43:41 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov9.104341.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by Suzanne
>Christie...maybe you posted and I missed it...but, what ever happened
with the mother/daugher team?

Are you going to try to do your own?  How did they respond to your
proposal?<

My slow supplier just delivered her last order.  She doesn't know
it's her last order from me, but I know I'll not use her again if I can
help it.

I developed a new line to replace the mother/daughter line.  Instead
of just various sized marbles wrapped in bronze, I now make a line
I call "Glimmers".  They are crystals and marbles wrapped in copper
wire & bronze.  I test marketed them at this past weekend's retail
arts & crafts show, and they were a hit.  So...my wholesale customers
will be receiving a complimentary "Glimmer" to introduce the new
line to them.  Just in time for Christmas!  And I make them myself.
No more late deliveries that I don't know about!

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 13:54:25 1998
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From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------3F6FE07BFEB604B587D970DF"
Subject: Re: Mosaic As Glass Panel
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 12:45:34 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov9.44534.0>
Organization: Stained Glass Artists
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--------------3F6FE07BFEB604B587D970DF
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi All & Diane,

Diane said:

I am toying with the idea of making a larger sized panel (say, 24" x
48")
using a mosaic method.  For example, instead of using copper foil or
came
to assemble the piece, I was going to apply the cut glass pieces to a
single sheet of clear glass and then grout the whole piece.  I would
then
frame the finished product.

Anyone see a problem with this?  Has anyone tried it other than for a
flat table top?  I was wondering if the grout might eventually crack or
fall off in some places and weaken the piece, and I wondered if it would

be strong enough to hang vertically for years and years.
Thoughts?????

I have done this and some hints here. On glass to glass you want to use
a silicone sealant, glass to metal use epoxy resin. I would also add
acrylic mortar admix to the grout for peace of mind. This will
strengthen the grout considerably.

Consider this as well. The sealant will be seen behind the glass. Maybe
someone can pipe up here about U-V sealants and how they would work with
this project.

I have only used the silicone sealant on glass so I would like to hear a
comment regarding the U-V adhesives too. I don't believe you will have a
durability problem unless you apply the grout really uneven.

See ya

Pam

--
*********************************
The Stained Glass Artists
Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director:
Advertising & Marketing


Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

Join our live glass chat!
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--------------3F6FE07BFEB604B587D970DF
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
Hi All &amp; Diane,

<P>Diane said:

<P><I>I am toying with the idea of making a larger sized panel (say, 24"
x 48")</I>
<BR><I>using a mosaic method.&nbsp; For example, instead of using copper
foil or came</I>
<BR><I>to assemble the piece, I was going to apply the cut glass pieces
to a</I>
<BR><I>single sheet of clear glass and then grout the whole piece.&nbsp;
I would then</I>
<BR><I>frame the finished product.</I><I></I>

<P><I>Anyone see a problem with this?&nbsp; Has anyone tried it other than
for a</I>
<BR><I>flat table top?&nbsp; I was wondering if the grout might eventually
crack or</I>
<BR><I>fall off in some places and weaken the piece, and I wondered if
it would</I>
<BR><I>be strong enough to hang vertically for years and years.</I>
<BR><I>Thoughts?????</I><I></I>

<P>I have done this and some hints here. On glass to glass you want to
use a silicone sealant, glass to metal use epoxy resin. I would also add
acrylic mortar admix to the grout for peace of mind. This will strengthen
the grout considerably.

<P>Consider this as well. The sealant will be seen behind the glass. Maybe
someone can pipe up here about U-V sealants and how they would work with
this project.

<P>I have only used the silicone sealant on glass so I would like to hear
a comment regarding the U-V adhesives too. I don't believe you will have
a durability problem unless you apply the grout really uneven.

<P>See ya

<P>Pam

<P>--
<BR>*********************************
<BR>The Stained Glass Artists
<BR>Pamela Burns-Tappan
<BR>Executive Director:
<BR>Advertising &amp; Marketing
<BR>&nbsp;

<P>Proud Member Of:

<P>The Stained Glass Artists
<BR><A HREF="http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html">http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html</A>

<P>Join our live glass chat!
<BR><A HREF="http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html">http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html</A>
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>The International Guild of Glass Artists
<BR><A HREF="http://www.igga.org/">http://www.igga.org/</A>
<BR>&nbsp;</HTML>

--------------3F6FE07BFEB604B587D970DF--

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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 14:23:19 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:CncptThnkr@aol.com" <CncptThnkr@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Lead came - surrouinds - and all that jazz
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 16:01:19 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov9.11119.0>
Precedence: bulk

Brian's technique is right on =

the money, and the obvious
advantage, of course, is that
the finished window is sure to
be square and perfectly fit
to the pattern.  This may not
be so important with a hanging
panel, but if you're fitting the
window into an opening, a
fraction of an inch makes
a difference.  And, if you've
framed out in zinc, there is
no chance of planing the border
down a bit.  Another advantage
to using lead on your border...
gives you a bit of flexibility
when fitting into a slightly-less-
than-square opening.  For
those of you who use zinc
on larger pieces as the finished
border, watch your solder joints
over the years.  They have a =

tendency to fail on zinc over
time.  Zinc just doesn't solder
as easily or as well as lead.
And, we don't find it to be any
stronger than a border of well-
cemented lead even though
it is more rigid.  All IMPO.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 14:40:31 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Diane W Manchester <tifstyorig@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Mosaic as Glass Panel
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 16:01:11 -0500
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Hi DIane-

The most important factor will
be your glue.... that has to stand
the test of time and remain clear
and strong.  Second consideration
is making sure your glass pieces
are entirely adhered to the plate
glass so that no grout seeps under
the pieces of glass - looks absolutely
hideous.  You might try some =

plating effects, too, while you're at
it.  And, consider skipping the grout.
The effect might be fine without.
Just some thoughts - I'll have =

more comments after you've tried
it, so keep us apprised of the
results!

Best,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 14:55:19 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: RE: How depressed........
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 16:01:26 -0500
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Great Exalted Experienced Ones??
Good grief, where are my hip waders?

Best ;-)

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 15:04:22 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Lead borders was:  How depressed...
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 16:01:04 -0500
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Would the panel be a bit warped
from building the window up on
the edge of the zinc?  Well, I =

suppose it would be slightly *off.
At least until you turned it over
to solder the reverse side, and
everything bowed back slightly -
If it was a problem, there would
be thousands of old European
windows bowed from the first =

day they were built - they may be
bowed now, but not from that!
I don't think there is a problem.
Don't forget to nail down your
vertical and horizontal wooden
guide strips along the 2 edges of
the pattern - these hold your =

outside lead cames in place.

Albert, have we had an article on
this procedure in Common Ground:
Glass?  With some good photos?
Let me know and I'll tackle it, if not.
A picture is worth a gazillion words!

Best,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 15:14:13 1998
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From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Mosaic as Glass Panel
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 21:49:47 +0000
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At 12:55 09/11/98 -0500, Diane wrote:
>I am toying with the idea of making a larger sized panel (say, 24" x 48")
>using a mosaic method.  For example, instead of using copper foil or came
>to assemble the piece, I was going to apply the cut glass pieces to a
>single sheet of clear glass and then grout the whole piece.  

Diane this is a technique that I have always called glass applique, and the
glass is held onto a pane of clear glass with a clear drying glue.  We
usually use one of the UV curing glues for this - in UK made by Loctite and
marketed as glassbond.
The grout is just to make an opaque filling between the pieces of glass to
stop light shining through and disturbing the effect of the coloured glass.
We sometimes suggest that this technique is one that can be used when
involving children or those with learning difficulties who may not be able
to solder or use lead came safely, as they can make an attractive panel
using real stained glass without too much difficulty.
Elizabeth
Bournemouth Stained Glass
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk

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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 15:32:35 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Mosaic as Glass Panel
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 17:07:46 -0500
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Message text written by Diane W Manchester
>I am toying with the idea of making a larger sized panel (say, 24" x 48"=
)
using a mosaic method.  For example, instead of using copper foil or came=

to assemble the piece, I was going to apply the cut glass pieces to a
single sheet of clear glass and then grout the whole piece.  I would then=

frame the finished product.
Anyone see a problem with this?  Has anyone tried it other than for a
flat table top?  I was wondering if the grout might eventually crack or
fall off in some places and weaken the piece, and I wondered if it would
be strong enough to hang vertically for years and years.
Thoughts?????<

Well....I worked on a very large set of mosaic'ed panels
(i.e. 7 feet long by 5 1/2 feet wide was the largest one) for
Children's Hospital of Philadelphia.  But we mounted the
glass pieces onto a very strong wooden backing & frame.

And I have a piece in my store by Suzanne Albright which is
glass mosaic'ed onto a single piece of glass, but it is on the
small side.  It is hanging in the window.  Looks very nice.
In both cases, there is no grout.  Or rather, in the case of the
CHOP panels, the "grout" consists of extra Red Devil glue
squeezed into all existing spaces between the glass pieces.
So, can't help you there.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 15:34:23 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Mosaic As Glass Panel
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 17:30:04 -0500
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>Diane said:
>
>I am toying with the idea of making a larger sized panel (say, 24" x
>48")
>using a mosaic method.  For example, instead of using copper foil or
>came
>to assemble the piece, I was going to apply the cut glass pieces to a
>single sheet of clear glass and then grout the whole piece.  I would
>then
>frame the finished product.
>
>Anyone see a problem with this?  Has anyone tried it other than for a
>flat table top?  I was wondering if the grout might eventually crack or
>fall off in some places and weaken the piece, and I wondered if it would
>
>be strong enough to hang vertically for years and years.
>Thoughts?????

Hi Diane,

I have done this on a smaller scale - 12" square max so far. I use glass 
or mirror as the backing and have used E-6000 for the glue. Yes, the glue 
shows on the back and so I cover it up with felt.

I've always put the frame on first. I started out putting masking tape 
over the frame, but found it wasn't necessary if I was careful to get all 
the grout off before it dried.

The only problem I've had so far was that I used a rondel for the center 
in one of the pieces, and it cracked, probably from shrinking grout, or 
maybe because the rondel was too delicate for this process. Guess that's 
why mosaics are almost always small pieces! 

Lately I've been experimenting with grouted picture frames - and throwing 
in beads, pearls and other small round objects. Sometimes since they're 
not flat, they don't glue in well enough, I'm gonna try GE Silicone II 
next and see if that helps.

Any other comments from experienced grouters would certainly be welcome.

Oh yes, black grout is much more difficult to work with than white. It's 
really messy. And unsanded grout I've found, always needs a second 
application after it's dried because, although it's smoother and 
glossier, it seems to shrink and I can't get a good application. The 
second coat seems to finish it off just fine, but it hasn't stood the 
test of time yet. I think I will be using sanded grout from now on.

A 24x48 size will really be heavy! I wonder how you'll hang it.

Suzy
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 16:01:36 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Mirrors
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 17:34:22 -0500
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>	
>Just had a mirror related disaster.  As we were packing for a show, my 
>wife and noticed many of our mirrors had ugly black spots near the seams.
>
>In my ignorant bliss, I took no particular precautions with the mirror edge 
>after cutting and grinding.  Clearly this was a mistake!  This batch will 
>have
>to be given as gifts (to people we don't like).
>
>In the future, what special care needs to be taken with mirrors?  What causes
>the ugly black spots?  Clearly they "grow" for some reason.  Will they
>eventually
>take over the whole surface?
>
Yes, the same thing happened to me on a big mirror commission. It is very 
distressing, to say the least.

Try not to grind the mirror. I seal it with clear fingernail polish on 
all 3 sides, about 1/4" on the back and just enough so foil covers the 
polish on the front. 

I believe they will grow, and you'll have to give them to people you 
really don't like. Sorry.

Suzy
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Mirrors
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 17:07:52 -0500
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Message text written by INTERNET:JJKIRBY@aol.com
>In the future, what special care needs to be taken with mirrors?  What
causes
the ugly black spots?  Clearly they "grow" for some reason.  Will they
eventually
take over the whole surface?<

Ah, your mirrors are suffering from Mirror Black Rot.
The silver is being eaten away.  After grinding you
need to carefully clean, dry, and then spray the edges
and back with Mirror Sealant.  This can be purchased
through just about any stained glass supplier.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 16:31:23 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: JJKIRBY@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mirrors
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 17:28:27 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov9.122827.0>
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JJKIRBY@aol.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Just had a mirror related disaster.  As we were packing for a show, my
> wife and noticed many of our mirrors had ugly black spots near the seams.
> 
> In my ignorant bliss, I took no particular precautions with the mirror edge
> after cutting and grinding.  Clearly this was a mistake!  This batch will have
> to be given as gifts (to people we don't like).
> 
> In the future, what special care needs to be taken with mirrors?  What causes
> the ugly black spots?  Clearly they "grow" for some reason.  Will they
> eventually
> take over the whole surface?
> 
> Thanks for all your knowledgeable answers in advance.
> 
> ----
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probably, though really slowly. one of my pieces was accidently
saturated with flux, which is still touching the surface. so far about
1" is gone, in roughly 5 years. 

make a glass overlay for the sections of mirror that are messy. solid
colors, should be used. then at least your not giving them "damaged"
merchandise.


for the future, don't grind the edges, it just compounds the problem. if
you have to, use a fine grinder bit. make sure the edges are clean.
spray the back and edges with mirror spray (or polyuerthane in a spray).
nail polish works also on the edges and back, but takes longer to put
on. and there's also mirror flux, which is quite goopy, smokes quite a
bit, and is a little tough to remove afterwards.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 17:37:56 1998
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From: Carol Tombro <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>
To: Michael J Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: How depressed........
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 19:40:48 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov9.144048.0>
References: <<1998Nov9.11126.0@[207.126.97.2]>>
Organization: Home
Precedence: bulk

I think Patrick has borrowed them from you to wear with his tutu.

CT

Michael J Greer wrote:

> Great Exalted Experienced Ones??
> Good grief, where are my hip waders?
>
> Best ;-)
>
> Dani Greer
> ----
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 18:07:44 1998
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From: JKSinrod@aol.com
To: JJKIRBY@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Mirrors
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 20:08:54 EST
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In a message dated 11/9/98 3:52:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, JJKIRBY@aol.com
writes:

<< Subj:	 Mirrors
 Date:	11/9/98 3:52:49 PM Eastern Standard Time
 From:	JJKIRBY@aol.com
 To:	glass@bungi.com
 
 	
 Just had a mirror related disaster.  As we were packing for a show, my 
 wife and noticed many of our mirrors had ugly black spots near the seams.
 
 In my ignorant bliss, I took no particular precautions with the mirror edge 
 after cutting and grinding.  Clearly this was a mistake!  This batch will
have
 to be given as gifts (to people we don't like).
 
 In the future, what special care needs to be taken with mirrors?  What causes
 the ugly black spots?  Clearly they "grow" for some reason.  Will they
 eventually
 take over the whole surface?
 
 Thanks for all your knowledgeable answers in advance.
 
 ---- >>
You didn't take care to either clean off all the flux, or use a special flux
designed for mirrir use. In the future, you can also seal the mirror edges
before you foil with that product.

 <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JKSinrod/sinrod.html">Sinrod Stained Glass
Studios</A> 

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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 18:15:40 1998
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Mosaic as Glass Panel
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 17:11:44 -0800
Message-ID: <199811100111.RAA15209@oceanus.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

>>I am toying with the idea of making a larger sized panel (say, 24" x 48")
>>using a mosaic method.  For example, instead of using copper foil or came
>>to assemble the piece, I was going to apply the cut glass pieces to a
>>single sheet of clear glass and then grout the whole piece.  I would then
>>frame the finished product.
>>Anyone see a problem with this?  Has anyone tried it other than for a
>>flat table top?  I was wondering if the grout might eventually crack or
>>fall off in some places and weaken the piece, and I wondered if it would
>>be strong enough to hang vertically for years and years.
>>Thoughts?????

Whatever you do,  DO NOT use Glasspro Mosaci Laminating Glue made by
Creative Craftsmen Co of Naperville, Il

I used it for some glass laminating and all the bits fell off within 6
months.  Fortunately it was NOT a commission piece, just something I was
experimenting with for myself.

C.

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 19:20:21 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Two Questions
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:18:16 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov9.161816.0>
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Hi all-

Does anyone have a source for
those wire spiral pyramids (is =

that descriptive or what??)
attached to tree-toppers that
hold the topper onto the tree?
I don't want to make them, but
I have numerous requests from
folks who have purchased my
crucifixes to adapt them for tree-
top use.  Any ideas?

Also, for the oldtimers who have
done a bit of restoration work:
In the old days, funny little
copper-plated tempered steel
wire clips  were used to install
leaded glass into steel or alu-
minum frames... to hold the
panels in place before glazing.
Are those still available anywhere?

Thanks in advance.

Best regards,

Dani Greer (who's glad to be done
with the scaffolding for a few weeks
in snowy Colorado!)
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 19:36:03 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Allentown '99
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 21:03:46 -0600
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Guess what I just figured out??  One of my best online friends for the
past couple of years moved within 5 miles of Allentown this summer!!!! 
All I really knew before was somewhere in Pa. Another reason for me to
save my pennies.

suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From: Steve Wernecke <wernecke@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Different mirror disaster question
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 18:56:03 -0800
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981109185603.00d92bf0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Precedence: bulk

Some time ago I scratched the back of a mirror I was making.  The scratch
is minor, and you have to look carefully to see it.  Resilvering is out of
the question, so I just chalked it up to experience.  The question:  Has
anyone played around with quick fixes for such a problem?  Aluminum foil
and silver nail polish are obvious materials that might help...or (my fear)
might make it worse.

Steve
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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 20:02:39 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1
From: eldondo1@juno.com
To: b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk
Subject: Re: How depressed........
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:39:50 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov9.153950.0>
References: <<1998Nov9.93225.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Don't use electrical pliers, yes it will crush lead!!!!!use diagonals
purchased at your glass supplier...And as for surrounding a piece of
lead,first with wire,I personally don't think that is necessary. Now with
lamps or such I always use woven wire,it's flat and strong and you can
bead it better than wire...(for the outside strength,of course) good luck
....Don <eldondo1@juno.com>

On Mon, 9 Nov 1998 09:32:25 -0000 "B. S. Jones" <b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk>
writes:
>>Last night I attempted to border the thing in lead came....
>
>
>>sigh..............fiasco..........
>
>>I couldn't get the came to cut welll.........as far as trying to get 
>45
>>degree angles to butt them to each other....
>>forget it.....I ended up just making the ends square....
>
>>type flat part for cutting wire etc.....but it does crush the hell 
>out
>of
>>the lead came.
>
>I have never yet had a knife for came or used one. I have always used
>electrical side cutters probably as you described.For outside came 45
>degrees I cut each side in turn to 45 degrees then simply flex the 
>back
>until it breaks off. For other types of came I do similar things ie 
>cut
>it a bit at a time in the walls where I can get in with the cutters 
>then
>flex the rest until it breaks.
>I wrap my panels outside with sixteen gauge tinned copper wire 
>soldered
>all round then put the outside came over that soldered wherever 
>possible
>to the solder already in the panel. I have never stretched that either
>as it is not load bearing for individual pieces of glass but more for
>the whole structure.The wire aleviates any forces on it that will 
>cause
>it to stretch with time.
>Brandon 
>UK
>
>ps. I have now put on my asbestos under pants ready for the oldies
>comments about what I have said above.
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Mon Nov  9 21:05:46 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: bad storms and soldering
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 22:35:06 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov9.16356.0>
Precedence: bulk

Well, we have a rock and roll thunderstorm heading into town, (they call
us tornado alley) with 75 mile an hour winds, hail, and lots of thunder
and lightning....

Well, boom boom, it's here, time to get off the puter, and practice
soldering (assuming the electricity stays on) ??  wonder if I can keep
my hand from shaking?

Tulsa Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 05:21:12 1998
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mirrors
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 07:51:33 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov10.25133.0>
References: <<1998Nov10.1854.0>>
Precedence: bulk




>  In the future, what special care needs to be taken with mirrors?  What causes
>  the ugly black spots?  Clearly they "grow" for some reason.  Will they
>  eventually
>  take over the whole surface?
>

I spray sealant, I fingernail polish the edges, I carefully apply mirror flux so
that it doesn't get on the mirror, I scrub clean...I sometimes find mirror rot a
few months later anyway.  So when I make a mirror, I made the mirror part larger
than the design.  I note where on the design the mirror will be over a solder line
so I can foil the mirror with the over lap there.  I carefully tin the foil (flux
the outside edge and let the flux creep down, clean and clean again.)  Make the
outer design, get that scrupulously clean.  I patina and polish the parts of the
glass design that will be covered by the mirror (they'll be seen froim the side in
reflection).  Then I solder the mirror onto the back.  The bigger the mirror, the
more attachment points you need (no hard and fast rule here).  If there is any
mirror rot...no one will know, including you.  (never had it grow to 1 inch!, just
blothces along the solder lines.)

Dorothy K

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 05:42:11 1998
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Portraits of Emeraldine and Pierre
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:03:10 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov10.3310.0>
Precedence: bulk

Wonderful news!
The esteemed glass portraiture artist Jay Jay 3 as been working on a
portrait of Emeraldine and Pierre.  I managed to get a copy of his rough
design on Vitreous Ocular and can supply it as a bitmap attachment to
anyone who asks.  Send private e-mail.  It depicts E & P inspecting the
famous puce glass.  Senhor Jay has been heard to complain that it's
difficult to really capture Pierre, since he hates to be stared at and
admired.

Dorothy K (who presently has the design as her computer wallpaper and
can be reached at shad@mail2.nai.net

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 07:24:39 1998
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Chihuly over Venice.
Date: Tue Nov 10 06:42:33 1998
Message-ID: <1998Nov11.41833.0>
Precedence: bulk

Asbestos is on, hip waders snug, so I feel free to comment.

Oh Great Exalted Experienced Ones and anyone else out there.

Chihuly over Venice was definitely worth watching. The chandeliers were
gorgeous and the blowing sequences fun to watch.   But it would have
been nicer if they explained a little more. Some friends were totally
clueless about the actual techniques and art of glass blowing and missed
a lot of what was shown but not explained. I have seen glass blown at a
small shop outside Bethlehem (the one in the Middle East) and at the
Corning Works in New York State and understood some of the subtleties of
what was going on. Corning is worth the trip if you are ever passing by.
(Shameless plug for anyone planning to drive to Pennsylvania. Corning is
only  3 hour from WC.)   

I am curious why he was throwing the glass into the river. Was it just
some abstract art that only artists understand?

Vic
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 07:55:30 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Help! Help! Help!
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:40:12 +0000
Message-ID: <199811101447.OAA11125@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Hey Folks,
Such is the sorry state of the tu-tu (etc...?) that Patrick has 
resorted to BLACKMAIL!!!
In today's mail was a special parcel for Toby containing BEEF!??
Patrick is obviously trying to threw Toby off the scent here!!!
.... I promised Toby Irish leg of mutton...;->
 
...Sorry I have been quiet lately... had problems with my service 
provider, almost solved but not quite...
....Oh, and another thing,  am reading with great interest all the 
threads about lead techniques. That is precisely what I will be 
focusing on during my visit to USA, hence the input of other UK folk 
is very valuable, as I will come armed with not ONLY how I myself do 
things, but also with other ideas of how (hopefully) ANOTHER 10 - 12 
people in UK working in lead do things. When I have caught up with my 
e-mails (250 of them in 2 days!!),  will knuckle down and try to 
follow this through. During the last couple of days, have been trying 
also to follow through an idea that Shirley Balloch is very keen on 
(SHE knows what I mean!!). Shirley - I am talking to people I know in 
BBC and a couple of other friends.... I'll see what I can do - 
without promising anything....
 Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK 

Patrick wrote
> I need more bios. I only have enough for one more post. The "Hound from
> Hell" is salivating again. Diplomacy won't work this time. In a TuTu my
> beautiful sensual legs are exposed, the Old English Sheepdog is nearing and
> his porcelain like fangs are gleaming in the moonlight. If I jump up on the
> sundial again my gnomone will be irreplaceable.
> 
> All of you lurkers please, please help. Send your bios to me or soon you
> will be asked to send donations for a floral arrangement to the Funeral
> Parlor.
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From: "Vic LaGreca" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: "Family Account" <shad@mail2.nai.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Mirrors
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:05:21 -0500
Message-ID: <19981110150116.CXBH3001@vic>
Precedence: bulk

One of my companies is cleaning and maintenance of offices and residential.


The way you clean the glass may be where the problem starts.

Be careful with the choice of glass cleaner you use.  ANYTHING with AMMONIA
or PHOSPHOROUS will cause the mirror black to get splotchy over time (with
or without flux).  Do not use on diocrylic, flashed or iridescent  glass
either.

Also, products like formula 409 will be disastrous on glass of any type.

From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 08:22:39 1998
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From: croch@ibm.net
To: "Glass" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Ruined my bedtime!
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 07:08:11 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov9.23811.0>
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Hi All - I am usually well tucked in bed by 9:30PM, but the Chihuly High
Definition presentation last night was mesmerizing to me!  Isn't the play of
light and glass just the most grand and awesome and glorious experience??
Namaste'    Carol

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 08:26:16 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Different mirror disaster question
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:56:29 -0500
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Message text written by Steve Wernecke
>Some time ago I scratched the back of a mirror I was making.  The scratc=
h
is minor, and you have to look carefully to see it.  Resilvering is out o=
f
the question, so I just chalked it up to experience.  The question:  Has
anyone played around with quick fixes for such a problem?  Aluminum foil
and silver nail polish are obvious materials that might help...or (my fea=
r)
might make it worse.<

I did the same thing a couple of years ago.  I used a little
silver paint from my paint pen to do touch up.  Worked well.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 08:56:16 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Different mirror disaster question
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:38:47 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov10.63847.0>
References: <<3.0.3.32.19981109185603.00d92bf0@popd.ix.netcom.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Steve Wernecke wrote:
> 
> Some time ago I scratched the back of a mirror I was making.  The scratch
> is minor, and you have to look carefully to see it.  Resilvering is out of
> the question, so I just chalked it up to experience.  The question:  Has
> anyone played around with quick fixes for such a problem?  Aluminum foil
> and silver nail polish are obvious materials that might help...or (my fear)
> might make it worse.
> 
> Steve
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


as far as i know there is'nt any way to repair mirror in this manor.
covering it, or making a design in the back of the mirror, would be the
only real way to hide it...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
----
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 09:28:53 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mirrors
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:44:33 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov10.64433.0>
References: <<1998Nov10.25133.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Family Account wrote:
> 
> >  In the future, what special care needs to be taken with mirrors?  What causes
> >  the ugly black spots?  Clearly they "grow" for some reason.  Will they
> >  eventually
> >  take over the whole surface?
> >
> 
> I spray sealant, I fingernail polish the edges, I carefully apply mirror flux so
> that it doesn't get on the mirror, I scrub clean...I sometimes find mirror rot a
> few months later anyway.  So when I make a mirror, I made the mirror part larger
> than the design.  I note where on the design the mirror will be over a solder line
> so I can foil the mirror with the over lap there.  I carefully tin the foil (flux
> the outside edge and let the flux creep down, clean and clean again.)  Make the
> outer design, get that scrupulously clean.  I patina and polish the parts of the
> glass design that will be covered by the mirror (they'll be seen froim the side in
> reflection).  Then I solder the mirror onto the back.  The bigger the mirror, the
> more attachment points you need (no hard and fast rule here).  If there is any
> mirror rot...no one will know, including you.  (never had it grow to 1 inch!, just
> blothces along the solder lines.)
> 
> Dorothy K
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


normally it does'nt happen at all. the victorian chest has a mirror
inside of it. and it also has a back (a back that was an 1/8" too
short). so i had to fill that space with solder. which used alot of
flux. thinking about it now i should have left the gap section at the
bottom of the piece, and not the top... oh well...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
----
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 10:06:52 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Chihuly over Venice.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:48:05 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov10.6485.0>
References: <<1998Nov11.41833.0>>
Precedence: bulk

daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@h1.mail.home.com wrote:
> 
> Asbestos is on, hip waders snug, so I feel free to comment.
> 
> Oh Great Exalted Experienced Ones and anyone else out there.
> 
> Chihuly over Venice was definitely worth watching. The chandeliers were
> gorgeous and the blowing sequences fun to watch.   But it would have
> been nicer if they explained a little more. Some friends were totally
> clueless about the actual techniques and art of glass blowing and missed
> a lot of what was shown but not explained. I have seen glass blown at a
> small shop outside Bethlehem (the one in the Middle East) and at the
> Corning Works in New York State and understood some of the subtleties of
> what was going on. Corning is worth the trip if you are ever passing by.
> (Shameless plug for anyone planning to drive to Pennsylvania. Corning is
> only  3 hour from WC.)
> 
> I am curious why he was throwing the glass into the river. Was it just
> some abstract art that only artists understand?
> 
> Vic
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


the questions i'd like answered are these:

1. what happened afterwards? those pieces are very expensive, did
someone buy it? did he donate it to a museum? did he bring them all
back? they could'nt still be there in the open, to tempting to smash it. 

2. did he just leave those glass things in the canal? 

3. and i guess he was'nt too terribly concerned for all the broken glass
he left at the bottom of that river...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
----
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 10:11:15 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mirrors
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:49:59 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov10.64959.0>
References: <<19981110150116.CXBH3001@vic>>
Precedence: bulk

Vic LaGreca wrote:
> 
> One of my companies is cleaning and maintenance of offices and residential.
> 
> The way you clean the glass may be where the problem starts.
> 
> Be careful with the choice of glass cleaner you use.  ANYTHING with AMMONIA
> or PHOSPHOROUS will cause the mirror black to get splotchy over time (with
> or without flux).  Do not use on diocrylic, flashed or iridescent  glass
> either.
> 
> Also, products like formula 409 will be disastrous on glass of any type.


i understand the dicroic, irr, etc, there all bi-metallic coatings. but
why not flash glass? 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 10:35:03 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland
From: Mosfunland@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Chihuly over Venice.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 12:21:51 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov10.172151.0>
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Last evening I was talking to my significants' father on the phone.  They live
in Anacortes WA.  I asked him if he has heard of Chihuly.....he said,"oh yeah,
that hippie up the road that blows glass all the time, does this mean you are
coming out here now?"  The last time I visited out there I/we stayed at a
place in Stanwood, and I kept hearing about this cool glass studio, but alas I
had the flu.  I really enjoyed watching the show,  I love glass in any form
and this was a treat for me.  I felt anxious watching the men pull that glass
out of the fire, coordinate their movements, and get so darned close to that
fireball, and then have such beauty develop!  I loved the sound of the glass
globes as they touched.  What a show, wish I had taped it.

Tonight is Frank Lloyd Wright a 2 part show.  Check your local listings...my
recorder will be on for it.  

Maureen   "yo mom, do we have room for a glory hole?"
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 10:39:33 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr
From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Chihuly over Venice.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 12:45:46 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov10.174546.0>
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In a message dated 11/10/98 10:31:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,
daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@aol.com writes:

> I am curious why he was throwing the glass into the river. Was it just
>  some abstract art that only artists understand?
>  
>  Vic

Hey Vic,

Thank you for asking,  being a craftsperson over an artist, I personally had
no idea as to the importance of putting the glass in the water.  I assumed
artistic expression, however my logical thinking kept prevailing and made me
again wonder "WHY WASTE ALL THAT GLASS?".  However, I also have to say I sure
wished I could have gotten my hands on all the glass they broke while they
were expressing themselves. And did you see the size of that pile of scrap
glass??  The colors were fabulous on most of the glass they produced.  I guess
this proves I am more the scavenger type over the artistic type.  

But it was wonderful to watch, even my 13 and 15 year old sons sat here
riveted.  (Of course they really liked the glass in the water part)

Thanks to everyone for reminding us it was on yesterday.  

Pat
  
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 11:03:32 1998
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From: PDRUSS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Chihuly over Venice.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 12:44:44 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov10.174444.0>
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In a message dated 98-11-10 10:31:03 EST, daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@aol.com
writes:

<< 
 I am curious why he was throwing the glass into the river. Was it just
 some abstract art that only artists understand?
 
 Vic >>


It was a wonderful show. The glass **in** the water was pretty, but I was
concerned about the ones that broke and sunk to the bottom. I can't believe
the local authorities let him get away with that. 


Dianne
Jacksonville, FL
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 11:08:42 1998
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mirrors
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:36:20 +0000
Message-ID: <199811101827.NAA01266@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Precedence: bulk


> i understand the dicroic, irr, etc, there all bi-metallic coatings. but
> why not flash glass? 

Because the "flash" on flashed glass is merely a thin layer of glass, 
not a chemical or other kind of deposited surface. 

Albert
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 11:37:42 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Chihuly over Venice.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:07:23 EST
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In a message dated 11/10/98 7:31:03 AM Pacific Standard Time,
daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@aol.com writes:

<< I am curious why he was throwing the glass into the river. Was it just
 some abstract art that only artists understand?
  >>

I think so, but it looked kind of cool.

I liked the segment on Ireland, because I've visited the Waterford factory.
They throw away about 40 per cent, that doesn't make QC.  All of the 
trades are paid by the piece.  So if they have a bad day its really a 
bad day.

All of their crystal is mouth blown which is very interesting.  When my
wife and I visited Fenton Glass in W.Va., they used compressors nearly
exclusively.  I would think if your blowing into a mold, a compressor might
have some advantage, any glassblowers out there?
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 11:47:06 1998
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Chihuly over Venice.
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:23:28 +0000
Message-ID: <199811101915.OAA01229@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Precedence: bulk


> again wonder "WHY WASTE ALL THAT GLASS?".  However, I also have to say I sure
> wished I could have gotten my hands on all the glass they broke while they
> were expressing themselves. And did you see the size of that pile of scrap
> glass?? 

That's an old (macho) glassblower's trick: while demonstrating 
glassblowing, make something kinda neat, then nonchalantly smash it 
into the scrap barrel or, as they did last night at one point, drop 
it onto the floor and dribble water onto it to make it break into a 
bajillyun pieces. The crowd goes wild.

I once interviewed Chihuly in his little "treehouse" in the forest. 
He reclined grandly in the charming assemblage-of-found-objects that 
the house had been built of, had large plans for the future (this was 
in the early '70s), and was altogether impressive. The chicken being 
roasted that night never did get done, as I remember, but Pilchuck, 
as Dale envisioned it and made it happen *did.

Albert
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 11:56:02 1998
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X-Path: flash.net!artglass
From: "Dianne G. Maddison" <artglass@flash.net>
To: bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: No Mail
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:44:12 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov10.54412.0>
Organization: The Ivory Express
Precedence: bulk

Hey, what has happened to all the bungi mail?  I haven't seen any for
days and I miss all the interaction
Dianne M.

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 12:14:27 1998
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X-Path: warner-criv.com!charles
From: "Charles Warner" <charles@warner-criv.com>
To: "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Mosaic as Glass Panel
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:09:51 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov10.9951.0>
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> Have you seen 'Glas Design     -    Wall Pictres' ISBN3-928004-19-0
>(1994)? Similar sort of sizes to that which you mentioned!


We have about 15 (some duplicates) of these on display in
our showroom.  They draw a lot of interest.  As someone wrote, the
glass is glued onto 1/8" window glass.  I think the glue was Silicon.

Charles Warner
Warner-Crivellaro

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 12:30:36 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Chihuly over Venice.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:03:44 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov10.10344.0>
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Vic-

I am an artist and I don't =

understand Chihuly either.  =

Don't feel alone.

Best regards,

Dani Greer (who is also holding
her breath for Christo's next project,
she said, tongue in cheek.)
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 13:01:52 1998
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!vlg
From: "Vic LaGreca" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Mirrors
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:39:48 -0500
Message-ID: <19981110203544.JVZZ3718@vic>
Precedence: bulk

I wouldn't use it on any glass that has been coated, painted, flashed or
laminated with anything. I'm positive it's a problem for mirrors and
dicroic, but only have a "gut" feeling where Flash is concerned. 

I apologize for the misspelling of dicroic (diocrylic? where the H* did
that come from)!  Must be still in a trance from watching Chihuly last
night.

Ciao

Vic


----------
> From: M. Savad <esavad@home.net>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Mirrors
> Date: Tuesday, November 10, 1998 11:49 AM
> 
> Vic LaGreca wrote:
> > 
> > One of my companies is cleaning and maintenance of offices and
residential.
> > 
> > The way you clean the glass may be where the problem starts.
> > 
> > Be careful with the choice of glass cleaner you use.  ANYTHING with
AMMONIA
> > or PHOSPHOROUS will cause the mirror black to get splotchy over time
(with
> > or without flux).  Do not use on diocrylic, flashed or iridescent 
glass
> > either.
> > 
> > Also, products like formula 409 will be disastrous on glass of any
type.
> 
> 
> i understand the dicroic, irr, etc, there all bi-metallic coatings. but
> why not flash glass? 
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> -- 
> Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> 9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
> of the Brilliance Award.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 13:39:23 1998
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X-Path: hotmail.com!moondancer44
From: "Linda Johnson" <moondancer44@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: pattern request
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:03:41 PST
Message-ID: <1998Nov10.21341.0>
Precedence: bulk

Does anyone know where I can find a pettern of a raven?  Been trying to 
come acoss one but can't seem to.  I've tried drawing one myself but I'm 
no artist and it keeps looking more like a pigeon instead.  Even if 
someone knows of a picture that's available, I can take it from there.  
Help!!! Thanks ahaed of time.  Linda

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 14:55:51 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Chihuly over Venice.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 17:27:05 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov10.12275.0>
References: <<1998Nov10.174546.0>>
Precedence: bulk

CncptThnkr@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 11/10/98 10:31:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@aol.com writes:
> 
> > I am curious why he was throwing the glass into the river. Was it just
> >  some abstract art that only artists understand?
> >
> >  Vic
> 
> Hey Vic,
> 
> Thank you for asking,  being a craftsperson over an artist, I personally had
> no idea as to the importance of putting the glass in the water.  I assumed
> artistic expression, however my logical thinking kept prevailing and made me
> again wonder "WHY WASTE ALL THAT GLASS?".  However, I also have to say I sure
> wished I could have gotten my hands on all the glass they broke while they
> were expressing themselves. And did you see the size of that pile of scrap
> glass??  The colors were fabulous on most of the glass they produced.  I guess
> this proves I am more the scavenger type over the artistic type.
> 
> But it was wonderful to watch, even my 13 and 15 year old sons sat here
> riveted.  (Of course they really liked the glass in the water part)
> 
> Thanks to everyone for reminding us it was on yesterday.
> 
> Pat
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

i wanted to get my hands on the glass bowl thing he broke. some of it
has to still be good. though it would probably have to be annealed...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
----
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 15:19:26 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mirrors
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 17:28:57 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov10.122857.0>
References: <<199811101827.NAA01266@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> > i understand the dicroic, irr, etc, there all bi-metallic coatings. but
> > why not flash glass?
> 
> Because the "flash" on flashed glass is merely a thin layer of glass,
> not a chemical or other kind of deposited surface.
> 
> Albert
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


yeah, i know, but how would an amonia type cleaner effect flash? it
should'nt hurt it any... unless you drop the bottle on the glass.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
----
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 15:56:39 1998
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X-Path: hotmail.com!katmath
From: "Kathy Mather" <katmath@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: dremal help
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:24:02 PST
Message-ID: <1998Nov10.23242.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all,
     Thanks to everyone for the advice about using the dremal and the 
diamond bit to drill a hole in glass. I think I'm ready to go off and 
give this a shot. 
                 Kathy


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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 18:24:13 1998
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X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: glass and hurricanes
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:45:22 -0600
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981110114522.007be760@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Precedence: bulk

Hi friends,
	Well, finally the sun is shining here in Costa Rica again... and welcome!
We got 40 inches of rain in the ten days or so we were affected by Mitch!
Which in turn means there are no roads... well.... piles of rock you can
mountain climb over, now, that they are starting to rebuild.  Some days
there wasn=B4t even a road out of here!  At that we were lucky, Nicaragua an=
d
Honduras are much worse off!!!!!
	The silver lining is that when everything else is closed down, and you
can=B4t go anywhere, you get A LOT of glass work done.  Also my students who
live close by came in and got alot of work done.  Luckily the telephones
and electricity through some miracle stayed on!
	I finished two "crazy quilt" windows for my bedroom, since glass still
hasn=B4t arrived for my commissions... but did design another commission, an=
d
a third bedroom window, after I couldn=B4t face a third crazy quilt one....
It is a nice way to use up the pieces of glass left over from other
projects !  Anyone wants to know more,  feel free to ask.
	I wonder what part of stained glass people HATE the most!!  Personally it
is cleaning the grinders... good motivation to use them less and less!
	Well, better run... Meg
RICHARD AND MEG LAVAL
Apdo 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA

PHONE 645-5052 or 645-5419
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 19:56:38 1998
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Mirrors
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:42:32 +0000
Message-ID: <199811110334.WAA05029@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Precedence: bulk


> yeah, i know, but how would an amonia type cleaner effect flash? it
> should'nt hurt it any... unless you drop the bottle on the glass.

I must've misunderstood you, Mike. You and I are on the same page: 
ammonia-based cleaners wouldn't hurt/harm/affect flashed glass.

Albert
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 20:18:24 1998
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Ruined my bedtime!
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:37:47 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov10.173747.0>
References: <<1998Nov9.23811.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I enjoyed seeing how those chandeliers were put together!
Dorothy K
croch@ibm.net wrote:

> Hi All - I am usually well tucked in bed by 9:30PM, but the Chihuly High
> Definition presentation last night was mesmerizing to me!  Isn't the play of
> light and glass just the most grand and awesome and glorious experience??
> Namaste'    Carol
>



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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 20:31:01 1998
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Frank Lloyd Wright
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:35:20 -0500
Message-ID: <199811110339.WAA12474@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

Well, have we all watched the FLW special tonight?

Wasn't he a fascinating man? Did he not have a fascinating life? Is is 
work not beautiful? Of course I am glad I was not one of his "ladies"!!!  
Although I must admit he and my husband have some similarities. Makes me 
wonder about reincarnation...

If you didn't see tonight's special, be sure to catch it tomorrow night 
if you can. If was definitely worth watching.

Suzy

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 21:28:06 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: solder question
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 23:07:51 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov10.17751.0>
Precedence: bulk

Immediately after getting off the phone from ordering 24 ;o) sheets of
glass, I went to my workshop to clean up the solder on this copper foil
goodie I was working on.  Well, I realised that my foil is just not
good.  It isnt completely bad, but I had never ever seen solder actually
prefer glass to fluxed foil before!  This was 15 yr old foil, I threw
away what was left from 15 yrs ago on my foiler, and opened a *new 15 yr
old package (original plastic package also in a baggie), that was dumb
dumb dumb...  What is odd is the way in which it was oxidised...only
little bits and peices were bad, and some took the solder well.  Little
spots turned black as soon as I put flux on it.  I had to spend way too
much time on it.

It is a fan lamp, It looks OK,. I am not embarrassed to have it out...it
actually looks kinda pretty, all polished up..hahaha.
Now, I finally get to my question...What about my 15 yr old solder? 
Think the solder is ok?  Does solder go bad?  Were the problems I had
just from the old foil or from old foil and old solder?  I hate to throw
things away.  I have about 5 rolls of *old copper foil tape, and about 8
-10 pounds of solder.  

I sure wish I had included some foil in my order today.  Just wasnt
smart enough to know I needed some.

Tulsa Suzanne



-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 21:49:26 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: JJKIRBY@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: waterford crystal
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 23:16:09 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov10.17169.0>
References: <<1998Nov10.19723.0>>
Precedence: bulk

> I liked the segment on Ireland, because I've visited the Waterford factory.
> They throw away about 40 per cent, that doesn't make QC.  All of the 
> trades are paid by the piece.  So if they have a bad day its really a 
> bad day.


Wonder if they are able to start over with it...also....When you visted
the Waterford factory...what did you notice in terms of safety
precautions from all that lead??  That stuff is full of lead, weighs a
ton. 
 I have a waterford suger bowl and a waterford creamer I never use
because of the guarenteed lead content!  I do use my leaded champagne
glasses and wine glasses(dont let them stay full long).  I never have
used a leaded decanter however.  

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 22:25:32 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: wrong impression
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 00:16:59 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov10.181659.0>
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Didnt want to leave you with the wrong impression, I did not order 24
full sheets of glass, all hobby sheets.  Affordable affordable
affordable!  Wouldnt it be fun to be wealthy and go glass shopping?
Now that would be fun!

Suzanne

-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 10 22:56:17 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: JJKIRBY@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Chihuly over Venice.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 00:28:04 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov10.18284.0>
References: <<1998Nov10.19723.0>>
Precedence: bulk

> << I am curious why he was throwing the glass into the river. Was it just
>  some abstract art that only artists understand?
>   >>
> 


I missed it entirely.  Was he destroying his art work?

I may be way off base, (if that wasnt what was happening) but I feel
like that sort of behavior is just plain wrong.

I abhor seeing a famous muscian destroy musical instruments, or an
artist destroy beautiful work?  For what?  When they could sign the
peice and donate it to a museum for millions to enjoy, an auction
raising money for a good cause, give the guitar to some poor kid that
cant afford one, buy food for people who have none, buy copy paper for
public schools, supplies for art classes in elementary schools, etc....

Maybe it is the social worker part of me I cant let go of....but sheesh,
there are too many people in this world that are in a world of hurt.

judgmental Tulsa Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 00:58:49 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com, glass@intrastar.net
Subject: Re: Chihuly over Venice.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 02:54:59, -0500
Message-ID: <199811110754.CAA08390@mime3.prodigy.com>
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 << I am curious why he was throwing the glass into the river. Was it 
just
 some abstract art that only artists understand? 

I missed it entirely.  Was he destroying his art work?<<

Normal people do not understand irrational acts. So..........he is 
either a fool or has superior knowledge. Either way some people, 
perhaps knowing nothing better to do with their money, tend to eat it 
up and will buy the product. Others will follow suit sinply because 
the first people bought. A trend is born and Picasso is a success at 
last. Art has changed hands be it good or not.

Remember, house painters are workers that are paid by the job or hour.
 Art painters are paid what they are worth as determined by the first 
buyer...........if any. Having a bit of eccentricity can be a good 
thing for the artist. In fact, we sort of expect and accept it.

Bob (who only has quirks)


____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 02:58:44 1998
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X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones
From: "B. S. Jones" <b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk>
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: Mirrors
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:33:18 -0000
Message-ID: <1998Nov11.103318.0>
Precedence: bulk

> i understand the dicroic, irr, etc, there all bi-metallic coatings.
but
> why not flash glass? 

Because the "flash" on flashed glass is merely a thin layer of glass, 
not a chemical or other kind of deposited surface. 

Albert
----

Interesting, a couple of years ago I sat and watched a craftsman on the
Isle of Wight make a glass vase with an irridescent surface by wiping
the hot glass with what was said to be a gold solution of some form. I
always thought that the irridescent sufaces on stained glass were done
the same way by putting on molecule thickness layers of metal to produce
the irridescence. Are there two processess involved here then.

Brandon
UK
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 04:00:07 1998
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X-Path: netrax.net!rejones
From: Bob Jones <rejones@netrax.net>
To: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Frank Lloyd Wright
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 06:48:51 -0500
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References: <<199811110339.WAA12474@uz.ComCAT.COM>>
Precedence: bulk

suzy@comcat.com wrote:

> Well, have we all watched the FLW special tonight?
>
> If you didn't see tonight's special, be sure to catch it tomorrow night
> if you can. If was definitely worth watching.
>
> Suzy

Here in Pennsylvania, at least the part in which I live, the PBS station had
the special on FLW, followed by a special on Fallingwater.  I have had the
opportunity to visit Fallingwater.  I suggest that if you get to western PA,
take it in.

FYI, Fallingwater and Youghigheny Glass are probably within an hour of each
other.  What an interesting weekend trip.



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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 04:27:41 1998
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: artglass@flash.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: No Mail
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 06:56:59 EST
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Hi Diane et al,
There has been mail over the last couple of days.  Problem must be with your
server or bungi list.  Good luck fixing the problem.
Lenore
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 05:29:59 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Frank Lloyd Wright
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:09:24 -0500
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Suzanne wrote:
>I will try to see it tomorrow. What station is broadcasting it?  
(the Special on FLW)

Suzanne, it is on PBS. I'm not sure of the time in Tulsa. Anybody?
I live in Pennsylvania, and it started at 9:00 here.
Suzy

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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 05:47:34 1998
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: shad@mail2.nai.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Mirrors
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:56:52 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov11.125652.0>
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Dorothy Dear et al,
Sounds like you are really going to a lot of trouble for your mirrors!  I have
quite a bit of experience working with mirrors and have not had a problem.
The only things I do are:  spray protective sealant on back
                                     coat all edges with clear nail polish
I also grind my mirrors and actually use the more abrasive grinder (to save
time).  If by chance I notice that there is a "chip" (s) taken from the
reflective side of the mirror, I give them a little hit with nail polish after
doing the edges. When foiling, I am extra careful to cover all little chips
with foil, so sometimes I use wider foil around mirror than the rest of the
glass.  
I have heard many people say not to grind their mirrors, however, that is not
true.  You may grind away all you want!  (Sorry Mike, Suzy, etc.)
>From what you said, you are using all types of extra precautions which are not
necessary.  I would like to see you save yourself some time and trouble.
Please feel free to e-mail me privately or on bungi line if you would like to
continue this discussion.
Lenore
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 06:30:16 1998
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: pattern request
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:53:36 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981111085336.006afc00@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Linda,
	I can't help you with a pattern of a raven but let me share what I have
been doing lately.......re:patterns.  Perhaps it can help.
	Lately I have been designing my own patterns with the help of the
computer, the web and a light box.
	First I look for a picture of whatever ........ in this case a raven, on
the web and print it out.  Put it on the light box and trace the outline
and detail that I want and that will work on glass.  
	Then I use a software program called Smart Draw.  You can download a demo
program from their web page. 

http://smartdraw.com/

I made my own light box using the suggestion from this list.  A piece of
glass atop four bricks wrapped in newspaper with an inexpensive portable
florescent tube (or two if you like) underneath.  Works great.

	I have made many "frames"  and saved them in Smart Draw to complete the
drawings....  then off I go to Kinko's to size it.  I will add here that I
have not copied stained glass pieces or any thing that may be in violation
of a copyright protection.   This helps when I go to Kinko's.... (they
won't help me copy anything with a copyright on it.... and sometimes I need
help 'cause I am one of those people that think one needs a commercial
pilots license to operate one of those copy machines.)
	It works great..... I have made many beautiful, one of a kind
patterns....... with which I am satisfied.  And I have stretched my
"artistic eye" in the process.  Maybe you can try it too..

Barbara
	

>X-Path: hotmail.com!moondancer44
>X-PH: V4.1@router2.mail.cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) 
>From: "Linda Johnson" <moondancer44@hotmail.com>
>To: glass@bungi.com
>Subject: pattern request
>Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:03:41 PST
>
>Does anyone know where I can find a pettern of a raven?  Been trying to 
>come acoss one but can't seem to.  I've tried drawing one myself but I'm 
>no artist and it keeps looking more like a pigeon instead.  Even if 
>someone knows of a picture that's available, I can take it from there.  
>Help!!! Thanks ahaed of time.  Linda
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 06:59:14 1998
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: wrong impression
Date: Wed Nov 11 06:49:08 1998
Message-ID: <1998Nov12.4258.0>
Precedence: bulk

Suzanne

Pity poor old Louis C. Tiffany. Daddy supporting his career choice and
helping with all that money.
If only I had to overcome obstacles like that.

Vic

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Suzanne [mailto:gunnx4@ix.netcom.com]
		Sent:	Wednesday, November 11, 1998 1:17 AM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	wrong impression

		Didnt want to leave you with the wrong impression, I did
not order 24
		full sheets of glass, all hobby sheets.  Affordable
affordable
		affordable!  Wouldnt it be fun to be wealthy and go
glass shopping?
		Now that would be fun!

		Suzanne

		-- 
		~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have
not laughed~
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 07:25:10 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!CWWSLW
From: CWWSLW@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Copper foil
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:41:57 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov11.144157.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hey yall,

I've just started working with some black-backed copperfoil, making little
clear display boxes for work. Is it just my imagination, or is this stuff
thinner than reg foil? When I run a bead of solder on it, the edges want to
pull up a bit. 
I'm using a new weller 80 watt iron, no retrostat. Didn't think I'd need one.
Am I wrong?

Thanks,
Susan
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 07:31:21 1998
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: solder question
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:56:41 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov11.145641.0>
Precedence: bulk

Dear Tulsa Suzanne,
Spoke with the foil manufacturers at a show last year.  They said that foil
only keeps for about 1 year.  I know how difficult it is to trash something
that has not been used, but in this instance, you really need to trash the
whole roll of foil.  A tip for a longer life is to keep the foil
refrigerated--------that's what they told me---------which would eliminate
moisture, which is the foe of foil.  I place the tiny bags that are in the
shoe boxes (when I buy new shoes) inside of my plastic bags of foil.  These
are supposed to help absorb moisture.
Recently I was told by a trusted source that solder will last forever.  
Lenore
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 07:53:08 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: solder question
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:03:42 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov11.5342.0>
References: <<1998Nov10.17751.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Suzanne wrote:
> 
> Immediately after getting off the phone from ordering 24 ;o) sheets of
> glass, I went to my workshop to clean up the solder on this copper foil
> goodie I was working on.  Well, I realised that my foil is just not
> good.  It isnt completely bad, but I had never ever seen solder actually
> prefer glass to fluxed foil before!  This was 15 yr old foil, I threw
> away what was left from 15 yrs ago on my foiler, and opened a *new 15 yr
> old package (original plastic package also in a baggie), that was dumb
> dumb dumb...  What is odd is the way in which it was oxidised...only
> little bits and peices were bad, and some took the solder well.  Little
> spots turned black as soon as I put flux on it.  I had to spend way too
> much time on it.
> 
> It is a fan lamp, It looks OK,. I am not embarrassed to have it out...it
> actually looks kinda pretty, all polished up..hahaha.
> Now, I finally get to my question...What about my 15 yr old solder?
> Think the solder is ok?  Does solder go bad?  Were the problems I had
> just from the old foil or from old foil and old solder?  I hate to throw
> things away.  I have about 5 rolls of *old copper foil tape, and about 8
> -10 pounds of solder.
> 
> I sure wish I had included some foil in my order today.  Just wasnt
> smart enough to know I needed some.
> 
> Tulsa Suzanne
> 
> --
> ~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


the solder should be ok, howver there might be a crust on the surface
which may fall into the solder lines. the foil should be replaced. most
bags have one hole in it usually to hang it by, and that's where the air
came to oxidize the stuff. and in any case, the stickum, probably
would'nt be as strong.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 07:58:59 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Chihuly over Venice.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:07:35 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov11.5735.0>
References: <<199811110754.CAA08390@mime3.prodigy.com>>
Precedence: bulk

BOB DUCHESNEAU wrote:
> 
>  << I am curious why he was throwing the glass into the river. Was it
> just
>  some abstract art that only artists understand?
> 
> I missed it entirely.  Was he destroying his art work?<<
> 
> Normal people do not understand irrational acts. So..........he is
> either a fool or has superior knowledge. Either way some people,
> perhaps knowing nothing better to do with their money, tend to eat it
> up and will buy the product. Others will follow suit sinply because
> the first people bought. A trend is born and Picasso is a success at
> last. Art has changed hands be it good or not.
> 
> Remember, house painters are workers that are paid by the job or hour.
>  Art painters are paid what they are worth as determined by the first
> buyer...........if any. Having a bit of eccentricity can be a good
> thing for the artist. In fact, we sort of expect and accept it.
> 
> Bob (who only has quirks)
> 
> ____
> Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026
> Want to talk glass? Join E-mail list:     glass@intrastar.net
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

yeah i guess it could have been a spontaneous, move. maybe
inspirational. he had extra parts, and he used them. though a litle
annoying to navigate around...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 08:39:50 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Yegnim@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: solder question
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:13:50 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov11.41350.0>
References: <<1998Nov11.145641.0>>
Precedence: bulk

> Dear Tulsa Suzanne,
> Spoke with the foil manufacturers at a show last year.  They said that foil
> only keeps for about 1 year.  I know how difficult it is to trash something
> that has not been used, but in this instance, you really need to trash the
> whole roll of foil.  A tip for a longer life is to keep the foil
> refrigerated--------that's what they told me---------which would eliminate
> moisture, which is the foe of foil.  I place the tiny bags that are in the
> shoe boxes (when I buy new shoes) inside of my plastic bags of foil.  These
> are supposed to help absorb moisture.
> Recently I was told by a trusted source that solder will last forever.  
> Lenore

Thanks for the great info Lenore.  Hearing it only lasts a yr makes me
feel alot better regarding mine being bad after 15! :o)

I would have never thought that about refrigerating the foil though.  As
rarely as I buy shoes, I will have to come up with another source of
those anti moisture packets!  OR, maybe I wont buy it in such large
large quantity. 

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
----
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 09:05:30 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: esavad@home.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: solder question
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:18:25 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov11.41825.0>
References: <<3649A74E.5EF2@home.net>>
Precedence: bulk

> the solder should be ok, howver there might be a crust on the surface
> which may fall into the solder lines. the foil should be replaced. most
> bags have one hole in it usually to hang it by, and that's where the air
> came to oxidize the stuff. and in any case, the stickum, probably
> would'nt be as strong.
> 
> ---Mike Savad


Sure enough Mike, I looked at my remaining unopened bags of foil and
everyone of them had a hole right in the middle.

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 09:33:44 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!PDRUSS
From: PDRUSS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Chihuly over Venice.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:26:14 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov11.162614.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 98-11-11 03:59:20 EST, YWAH36A@prodigy.com writes:

<< 
  << I am curious why he was throwing the glass into the river. Was it 
 just
  some abstract art that only artists understand? 
 
 I missed it entirely.  Was he destroying his art work?<<
 
 Normal people do not understand irrational acts. >>



Seems to me, they said the river was next to the glass factory and farther
down the road the site of the display. I think he started using the river to
transport the glass down the road, then most likely liked the way it looked in
the water. The glass in the water was very appealing.

I'm sure the glass was placed in the water, the photos taken, then the glass
was removed. They did show people **standing in the water** down stream.  

 I can't understand the ***throwing *** of the glass into the water part as it
would be sure to cause some breakage. How they removed the broken pieces I
don't know.

The other breaking of the glass (huge **outdoors** piles of broken glass )
occured was when he told us they mashed the already broken pieces to stop
people from taking the broken pieces and hurting theirselves. 

I thought you could remelt the glass for future projects.


Dianne ::::::::not a glass blower
Jacksonville, FL


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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 10:02:55 1998
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From: Rod Dagenais <dagenais@limestone.kosone.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: unsubscibe
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:08:50 -0500
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Please removed my Name from your distribution list.
thank you
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 10:26:29 1998
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X-Path: netcom.ca!shmilly
From: bill <shmilly@netcom.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: homasote board
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:31:26 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19981111123126.0079d960@popd.netcom.ca>
Precedence: bulk

hi....it's Bill the newbie.....i just bought some homasote board for doing
my soldering on and was wondering if i should mount it onto plywood (or
something) to keep it flat.......is it advisable to screw  a couple of 1" X
2" pieces of wood through the homasote to help keep the piece i am working
squared up?....or do you have any other ideas?....it also smells, any fixes
for this?.........Bill  

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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 10:37:12 1998
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From: "Linda Johnson" <moondancer44@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: fan lamps
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:19:53 PST
Message-ID: <1998Nov11.181953.0>
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Hello Again
Hope you guys can help me with some advice.  I recently completed my 
first fan lamp and am having problems in setting it into the base.  Wish 
these bases cam with instructions.  Right now i'm wondering if setting 
it into cement would work.  Help!?  Thanks, Linda

______________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 11:32:40 1998
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: homasote board
Date: Wed Nov 11 10:58:35 1998
Message-ID: <1998Nov12.83435.0>
Precedence: bulk

Bill the newbie

You can just frame out the back with 1 x 2 instead of attaching plywood
to the back.
You may need a couple of cross pieces also depending on the size of you
board.
I did this with a 4' x 8' homasote board that a friend was building a
model rail road on.
Ten years latter the trains were still running.

There is no reason you cannot mount a right angle on the top, but it may
not stay true. 
Unless homasote has changed over the past 20 years, it is not something
that will hold screws
tight. Pushing against the wood may enlarge the screw hole and allow
play in the wood.
If you do mount it just make sure to check it regularly.

Also remember that homasote  is pourus. If you spill liquid, or let
paste sit on the surface, it will get absorbed.

Vic 

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	bill [mailto:shmilly@netcom.ca]
		Sent:	Wednesday, November 11, 1998 12:31 PM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	homasote board

		hi....it's Bill the newbie.....i just bought some
homasote board for doing
		my soldering on and was wondering if i should mount it
onto plywood (or
		something) to keep it flat.......is it advisable to
screw  a couple of 1" X
		2" pieces of wood through the homasote to help keep the
piece i am working
		squared up?....or do you have any other ideas?....it
also smells, any fixes
		for this?.........Bill  

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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 12:04:23 1998
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X-Path: epix.net!"pmsl@epix.net"
From: Paula Smith-Lane <"pmsl@epix.net"@epix.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: FLW special
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:26:58 -0500
Message-ID: <199811111930.OAA21257@lima.epix.net>
Organization: Prefered Customer
Precedence: bulk

I was in Atlanta from Friday until today. Is the FLW special going to be
on again tonight? If so, what time?  Any Nascar fans out there in Bungi
land? Just had an intense 4 days with Nascar. If interested go to
http:// www.nascar.com/news/97news/00922362.html.
Paula

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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 12:31:03 1998
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X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro
From: Carol Tombro <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>
To: PDRUSS@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Chihuly over Venice.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 15:08:14 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov11.10814.0>
References: <<1998Nov11.162614.0@[207.126.97.2]>>
Organization: Home
Precedence: bulk

Maybe throwing the glass into the water was symbolic as Venice is known as the
city of water and light.

CT

PDRUSS@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 98-11-11 03:59:20 EST, YWAH36A@prodigy.com writes:
>
> <<
>   << I am curious why he was throwing the glass into the river. Was it
>  just
>   some abstract art that only artists understand?
>
>  I missed it entirely.  Was he destroying his art work?<<
>
>  Normal people do not understand irrational acts. >>
>
> Seems to me, they said the river was next to the glass factory and farther
> down the road the site of the display. I think he started using the river to
> transport the glass down the road, then most likely liked the way it looked in
> the water. The glass in the water was very appealing.
>
> I'm sure the glass was placed in the water, the photos taken, then the glass
> was removed. They did show people **standing in the water** down stream.
>
>  I can't understand the ***throwing *** of the glass into the water part as it
> would be sure to cause some breakage. How they removed the broken pieces I
> don't know.
>
> The other breaking of the glass (huge **outdoors** piles of broken glass )
> occured was when he told us they mashed the already broken pieces to stop
> people from taking the broken pieces and hurting theirselves.
>
> I thought you could remelt the glass for future projects.
>
> Dianne ::::::::not a glass blower
> Jacksonville, FL
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 13:01:20 1998
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From: tuka@bc.sympatico.ca
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Chihuly website
Summary: Authenticated sender is <a1a84211@mail.bctel.ca>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:50:54 +0000
Message-ID: <199811112046.MAA04580@mail1.bctel.ca>
Precedence: bulk

Check this out:

http://www.chihuly.com/selected.html

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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 13:59:33 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: solder question
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:36:12 -0500
Message-ID: <199811112140.QAA09203@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

Lenore wrote:
>Spoke with the foil manufacturers at a show last year.  They said that foil
>only keeps for about 1 year.  I know how difficult it is to trash something
>that has not been used, but in this instance, you really need to trash the
>whole roll of foil.  A tip for a longer life is to keep the foil
>refrigerated--------that's what they told me---------which would eliminate
>moisture, which is the foe of foil.  I place the tiny bags that are in the
>shoe boxes (when I buy new shoes) inside of my plastic bags of foil.  These

Suzanne, you can find these little dessicants in vitamin bottles too. I 
save all mine and keep them in plastic baggies with the foil!

Suzy
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 14:31:43 1998
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To: shmilly@netcom.ca, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: homasote board
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 17:11:52 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov11.221152.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 11/11/98 1:29:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
shmilly@netcom.ca writes:

> hi....it's Bill the newbie.....i just bought some homasote board for doing
>  my soldering on and was wondering if i should mount it onto plywood (or
>  something) to keep it flat.......is it advisable to screw  a couple of 1" X
>  2" pieces of wood through the homasote to help keep the piece i am working
>  squared up?....or do you have any other ideas?....it also smells, any fixes
>  for this?.........Bill  

Hey Bill,

I personally glued then screwed some 1" X 1" (1X2 ripped lengthwise) on two
sides of my homasote board.  I did not attach the entire board to plywood
because I was carrying it to classes and did to want to add the extra weight.
Also, since I purchased a whole 4' X 8' sheet, I had replacements available.
One did warp because I pieced the wood framing on one side, but the other is
still very flat.  I also think storing it vertically or horizontally may make
a difference.   I don't remember a smell, but once you spill flux on it and
burn it with the soldering iron I am sure it will pick up a new odor
completely.    

patricIA
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 15:02:11 1998
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From: "Vic LaGreca" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Non Glass - Veterans Day
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 17:37:16 -0500
Message-ID: <19981111223304.BVYW18382@vic>
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To all the Vets in the group and there families:  Happy Veterans Day!

Ciao

Vic

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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 15:25:53 1998
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From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Chihuly website
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:55:59 -0500
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Beautiful....Thank you

Arnold Svhneider    Creekside Creations    Richfield, PA
-----Original Message-----
From: tuka@bc.sympatico.ca <tuka@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 4:31 PM
Subject: Chihuly website


>Check this out:
>
>http://www.chihuly.com/selected.html
>
>----
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 15:35:10 1998
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From: "Charles Warner" <charles@warner-criv.com>
To: <CWWSLW@aol.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Copper foil
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 17:54:39 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov11.125439.0>
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Susan:

Venture brand black backed foil is 1.25 mil thick.  Standard copper foil
is available in 1 mil (purple core), 1.25 mil (orange core) and 1.5 mil
(red core).  Perhaps you are accustomed to using the 1.5 mil.

>I've just started working with some black-backed copperfoil, making little
>clear display boxes for work. Is it just my imagination, or is this stuff
>thinner than reg foil? When I run a bead of solder on it, the edges want to
>pull up a bit.

As with any foil it has to be firmly pressed onto the glass.

Charles Warner
Warner-Crivellaro

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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 15:46:14 1998
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: ptap@pacifier.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Supplier for candle cups needed!
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 17:54:23 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov11.225423.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Pam and Bungies,
Hope this info can help you.  Lou Davis' Ceramic and Craft Catalog (wholesale)
1997 Fall/Winter Edition:  Candle Cup #1622 Brass-plated candle cup is 1&1/8"
high.  Fits standard candles.  Bottom hole fits 1/8 I.P.    1@$.28, 6@$.23,
12@$.19, 48@$.13, 100@$.10 each.
If the size is incorrect, perhaps you could trim the bottom of the candles a
bit so they fit.  Call:  1-800-748-7991.
Lenore
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 16:02:58 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: bill <shmilly@netcom.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: homasote board
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 17:38:14 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov11.123814.0>
References: <<3.0.6.32.19981111123126.0079d960@popd.netcom.ca>>
Precedence: bulk

bill wrote:
> 
> hi....it's Bill the newbie.....i just bought some homasote board for doing
> my soldering on and was wondering if i should mount it onto plywood (or
> something) to keep it flat.......is it advisable to screw  a couple of 1" X
> 2" pieces of wood through the homasote to help keep the piece i am working
> squared up?....or do you have any other ideas?....it also smells, any fixes
> for this?.........Bill
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

it should'nt smell like anything. if it got really wet, it might be
moldy. yeah attaching it to a frame will help keep it flat. though
attaching it to just plywood may not. i've done that, and it cupped just
as much. for the most part, the piece would'nt be that big anyway
(unless your project is large). if i use homosote it's usually no more
then 1-2' square. 

mostly i work on my laminated bench.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 16:04:21 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Yegnim@aol.com
Subject: Re: solder question
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:39:43 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Nov11.223943.0>
References: <<1998Nov11.145641.0@?>>
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In message <1998Nov11.145641.0@?>, Yegnim@aol.com writes
>Dear Tulsa Suzanne,
>Spoke with the foil manufacturers at a show last year.  They said that foil
>only keeps for about 1 year.  

........cut.........
>A tip for a longer life is to keep the foil
>refrigerated--------that's what they told me---------which would eliminate
>moisture, which is the foe of foil.  

When did you last find a dry refrigerator?!  There is more moisture in a
refrigerator than on most rainy days.

Steve

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 16:28:45 1998
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: CWWSLW@aol.com
Subject: Re: Copper foil
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:37:19 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Nov11.223719.0>
References: <<1998Nov11.144157.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

In message <1998Nov11.144157.0@?>, CWWSLW@aol.com writes
>Hey yall,
>
>I've just started working with some black-backed copperfoil, making little
>clear display boxes for work. Is it just my imagination, or is this stuff
>thinner than reg foil? When I run a bead of solder on it, the edges want to
>pull up a bit. 

No, the adhesive on the black-backed is not as good as that on clear (or
copper coloured if you must!)
Steve

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 16:32:42 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: solder question
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 17:40:55 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov11.124055.0>
References: <<199811112140.QAA09203@uz.ComCAT.COM>>
Precedence: bulk

suzy@comcat.com wrote:
> 
> Lenore wrote:
> >Spoke with the foil manufacturers at a show last year.  They said that foil
> >only keeps for about 1 year.  I know how difficult it is to trash something
> >that has not been used, but in this instance, you really need to trash the
> >whole roll of foil.  A tip for a longer life is to keep the foil
> >refrigerated--------that's what they told me---------which would eliminate
> >moisture, which is the foe of foil.  I place the tiny bags that are in the
> >shoe boxes (when I buy new shoes) inside of my plastic bags of foil.  These
> 
> Suzanne, you can find these little dessicants in vitamin bottles too. I
> save all mine and keep them in plastic baggies with the foil!
> 
> Suzy
> ----
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or if you want to get lot's and lot's,  some flower shops or craft
stores may sell it. it's used for drying flowers (and keeping them in
there own shape). it's called Silica Gel, and it can be heated in the
oven to remove the moisture.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 16:33:32 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: CWWSLW@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Copper foil
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 17:28:46 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov11.122846.0>
References: <<1998Nov11.144157.0>>
Precedence: bulk

CWWSLW@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hey yall,
> 
> I've just started working with some black-backed copperfoil, making little
> clear display boxes for work. Is it just my imagination, or is this stuff
> thinner than reg foil? When I run a bead of solder on it, the edges want to
> pull up a bit.
> I'm using a new weller 80 watt iron, no retrostat. Didn't think I'd need one.
> Am I wrong?
> 
> Thanks,
> Susan
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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sure it's not the thinnest one? you may have grabbed the really thin one
opposed to the middle one .00125 or something like that.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
----
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 17:41:28 1998
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: fan lamps
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:42:30 -0500
Message-ID: <199811120046.TAA26624@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

>Hello Again
>Hope you guys can help me with some advice.  I recently completed my 
>first fan lamp and am having problems in setting it into the base.  Wish 
>these bases cam with instructions.  Right now i'm wondering if setting 
>it into cement would work.  Help!?  Thanks, Linda

Just what kind of problem are you having? Too thick to fit into base? Not 
enough glass at bottom of fan to fit into the groove? 

You might have to improvise somehow. Maybe add another piece of glass to 
fit the base.

Suzy
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 19:07:33 1998
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: JKSinrod@aol.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Mirrors
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 18:46:49 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1998Nov11.104649.0>
References: <<1998Nov10.1854.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi JK:  You mentioned using a special flux for mirrors?  Do you have a
brandname for such.  I am not sure I have ever heard of one but sounds
like I would like to check it out.  Peggy

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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 20:40:13 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: FLW on PBS
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:33:59 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov11.163359.0>
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I could live over that waterfall.  Wasnt that an amazing story how
quickly he drew/designed that wonderful place?

Gotta love those lily pads in the Johnsons' building. Not sure if I
missed this part or not, but did they say what they did about the water
leaks?

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 21:13:56 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: more solder questions
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 23:06:11 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov11.17611.0>
Precedence: bulk

When you use a *non* lead solder after using lead solder, do you need to
use a different tip on your iron? 

 Can you use the same flux different solders, or do the different fluxes
have different uses?

Tulsa Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 21:41:49 1998
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From: "Linda Johnson" <moondancer44@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com, suzy@ComCAT.COM
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: fan lamps
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 21:23:22 PST
Message-ID: <1998Nov12.52322.0>
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Thanks to everyone with the help on the fan base.  The problem I was 
having was that the slot was much to large.  I ended up improvising by 
wrapping lead came around the bottom of the fan base.  But I'll 
definately keep everyone's pointers in mind for my next one, whenever 
that may be.  Linda

>From owner-glass@daver.bungi.com Wed Nov 11 18:32:37 1998
>Received: from [207.126.97.7] by hotmail.com (1.0) with SMTP id 
MHotMail3088290755883506532503348116608712270; Wed Nov 11 18:32:37 1998
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>From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
>To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>Subject: Re: fan lamps
>Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:42:30 -0500
>Message-ID: <199811120046.TAA26624@uz.ComCAT.COM>
>Precedence: bulk
>
>>Hello Again
>>Hope you guys can help me with some advice.  I recently completed my 
>>first fan lamp and am having problems in setting it into the base.  
Wish 
>>these bases cam with instructions.  Right now i'm wondering if setting 
>>it into cement would work.  Help!?  Thanks, Linda
>
>Just what kind of problem are you having? Too thick to fit into base? 
Not 
>enough glass at bottom of fan to fit into the groove? 
>
>You might have to improvise somehow. Maybe add another piece of glass 
to 
>fit the base.
>
>Suzy
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


______________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 22:14:04 1998
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From: "Kathy Mather" <katmath@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com, esavad@home.net
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: solder question
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 20:03:33 PST
Message-ID: <1998Nov12.4333.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all, 
   Or if you know anyone that works in a grocery store, the little 
packets of silica gel come in boxes of some kinds of candy. 
                                            Kathy

>From owner-glass@daver.bungi.com Wed Nov 11 16:58:58 1998
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>X-Path: home.com!esavad
>From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
>To: glass@bungi.com
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Subject: Re: solder question
>Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 17:40:55 -0500
>Message-ID: <1998Nov11.124055.0>
>References: <<199811112140.QAA09203@uz.ComCAT.COM>>
>Precedence: bulk
>
>suzy@comcat.com wrote:
>> 
>> Lenore wrote:
>> >Spoke with the foil manufacturers at a show last year.  They said 
that foil
>> >only keeps for about 1 year.  I know how difficult it is to trash 
something
>> >that has not been used, but in this instance, you really need to 
trash the
>> >whole roll of foil.  A tip for a longer life is to keep the foil
>> >refrigerated--------that's what they told me---------which would 
eliminate
>> >moisture, which is the foe of foil.  I place the tiny bags that are 
in the
>> >shoe boxes (when I buy new shoes) inside of my plastic bags of foil.  
These
>> 
>> Suzanne, you can find these little dessicants in vitamin bottles too. 
I
>> save all mine and keep them in plastic baggies with the foil!
>> 
>> Suzy
>> ----
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>
>
>or if you want to get lot's and lot's,  some flower shops or craft
>stores may sell it. it's used for drying flowers (and keeping them in
>there own shape). it's called Silica Gel, and it can be heated in the
>oven to remove the moisture.
>
>---Mike Savad
>
>-- 
>Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
>http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
>9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
>of the Brilliance Award.
>----
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 22:37:51 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Linda Johnson <moondancer44@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: fan lamps
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 23:48:02 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov11.17482.0>
References: <<1998Nov11.181953.0>>
Precedence: bulk

> Hello Again
> Hope you guys can help me with some advice.  I recently completed my 
> first fan lamp and am having problems in setting it into the base.  Wish 
> these bases cam with instructions.  Right now i'm wondering if setting 
> it into cement would work.  Help!?  Thanks, Linda


Do you mean it is too wobbly?  Try something like a bit of silly putty
in the wood base.

I have noticed on premade patterns they have pretty narrow bases on the
glass piece.  When I use one of those patterns I just modify the botton
to make it a little wider.  

Spectrum had a nice dolphin on waves for a fan lamp on their website
for  a pattern of the month...Did you see it?  I made it, and really
like it.  They also have a horse fan lamp pattern. Here is their pattern
archive url.
http://www.spectrumglass.com/PattSet.html

Tulsa Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 23:13:58 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: waterford crystal
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 00:57:40 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov11.185740.0>
References: <<moedHKArYhS2Ewmu@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>>
Precedence: bulk

> I don't think you should go overboard here.  the lead will leach from
> the glass only at the rate the glass corrodes.  Glass, oddly, corrodes
> more in the presence of a thin film of water-based fluid than in the
> presence of large amounts of water.  This has to do with the acidic
> content of the water, apparently.  
> 
> Glass corrodes at the rate of 1 millimeter per century.  
> 


I am no extremist.  Notice I still drink out of my glasses.  I do not
not let anything edible sit in a container made with lead.  

I was married to a winemaker/chemist, we owned a wine analysis lab.  He
had very reputable studies regarding storage of wine.  Leaded decanters
*do* leach lead into the wine.  

> My reference book says crystal is either 30 or 24 percent lead oxide >by weight.  (Note - by weight, not by volume)
 
Lifted a peice of Waterford lately?  24-30% of a pound isnt a slight
amount of lead.  

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 11 23:43:53 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: waterford crystal
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 01:35:19 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov11.193519.0>
References: <<1998Nov11.185740.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Guess I can be defensive, didnt mean to sound quite so argumentative.

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 12 01:17:40 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:56:47 -0000
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Hello
I`m new in this.I need suggestion how to work with a large window, size =
106cm x 65cm.I will fit it in door.But I don`now , should I work with =
foil or lead profile technic.I don`t now how to make window =
stronger.Should Imake a termopan window.Will heavy window make a =
difficult for door. Should I put a channel around the edges.Thank you    =
Bojan email: bojan.gorencic@siol.net

------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BE0E22.C2E02920
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<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-2 =
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HTML//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hello</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I`m new in this.I need suggestion how to work with a =
large=20
window, size 106cm x 65cm.I will fit it in door.But I don`now , should I =
work=20
with foil or lead profile technic.I don`t now how to make window =
stronger.Should=20
Imake a termopan window.Will heavy window make a difficult for door. =
Should I=20
put a channel around the edges.Thank you&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Bojan email: =
<A=20
href=3D"mailto:bojan.gorencic@siol.net">bojan.gorencic@siol.net</A></FONT=
></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 12 04:17:57 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon
From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: FLW on PBS
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 07:10:20 EST
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What I understood was that most of his buildings had problems of some sort,
and the client learned to live with them.
Brenda

<< Gotta love those lily pads in the Johnsons' building. Not sure if I
 missed this part or not, but did they say what they did about the water
 leaks? >>
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 12 04:48:42 1998
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Subject: Re: homasote board
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 07:16:57 EST
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Hi Bill - I use the Morton layout blocks on the homosote board to square up
projects.  The homosote holds the push pins just great.  I put my pattern
master down on the homosote and then pin the layout blocks right through the
pattern edge.
Brenda

<< hi....it's Bill the newbie.....i just bought some homasote board for doing
 my soldering on and was wondering if i should mount it onto plywood (or
 something) to keep it flat.......is it advisable to screw  a couple of 1" X
 2" pieces of wood through the homasote to help keep the piece i am working
 squared up?....or do you have any other ideas?....it also smells, any fixes
 for this?.........Bill  >>
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 12 05:01:40 1998
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Subject: Re: pattern request
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 07:19:25 EST
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A few months ago someone else was looking for a raven pattern on one of the
chat boards (W-C, Art Glass World?) and someone else posted a website about
ravens that had loads of pictures to download.  Don't know offhand what the
address was but if you try a search for ravens and birds you should find
plenty of pictures.
Brenda

<< Does anyone know where I can find a pettern of a raven?  Been trying to 
 come acoss one but can't seem to.  I've tried drawing one myself but I'm 
 no artist and it keeps looking more like a pigeon instead.  Even if 
 someone knows of a picture that's available, I can take it from there.  
 Help!!! Thanks ahaed of time.  Linda >>
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 12 05:15:46 1998
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From: BMarhon@aol.com
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Supplier for candle cups needed!
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 07:21:01 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov12.12211.0>
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In the book Candlelight Designs the author suggests using end caps from a
plumbing supply store to hold the candles.  I know they come in copper and
maybe they also come in brass.
Brenda

<< I am trying to help someone find a supplier of "assorted style" candle
 cups (filigree and brass). They need to be a certain diameter. Opening
 cannot be much more or much less than 5/8" in diameter. These are needed
 for a Menorah. So anyone who can help it would be much appreciated. >>
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 12 05:18:29 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: GreerStudios@compuserve.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  Chihuly over Venice.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 07:27:44 EST
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Also sprach Dani Greer (who is also holding her breath for Christo's next
project, she said, tongue in cheek.):

>I am an artist and I don't
>understand Chihuly either.
>Don't feel alone.

Unfortunately I missed the program, so can't comment on it specifically, but
was in the local library this evening and happened to pull out a book titled
*ArtToday* - one of those "coffee table books" that's so called because it's
big enough to *be* a coffee table all by itself. Opened it at random and the
first thing I saw was a 2-page close-up spread of a guy's hand slicing his
hairy stomach with a razor blade. A lot of the rest of the book was similarly
unappetizing, almost made me long for some good old-fashioned laid-back
Dada........


Sparks

(p.s. if slicing yourself is art, then everybody here must be Picasso,
Rembrandt, da Vinci, etc. reincarnated!)
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 12 05:30:51 1998
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In a message dated 11/10/98 3:01:57 PM, artglass@flash.net wrote:

>Hey, what has happened to all the bungi mail?  I haven't seen any for
>days and I miss all the interaction
>Dianne M.

OK, all you Whos in Whoville, all together now, and real loud:

"WE ARE HERE! WE ARE HERE! WE ARE HERE!"


Sparks
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 12 05:31:49 1998
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In a message dated 11/11/98 7:00:39 AM, rejones@netrax.net wrote:

>FYI, Fallingwater and Youghigheny Glass are probably within an hour of each
>other.  What an interesting weekend trip.

There's another FLW house, Kentuck Knob, in the general area as well. i don't
remember the exact location.


Sparks
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 12 06:49:29 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: FLW on PBS
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:41:35 +0000
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Yep. In fact, one client complained that the leak in the roof was 
allowing water to pour down onto the furniture. Wright told him to 
move the furniture.

Whatta genius!

Albert


> What I understood was that most of his buildings had problems of some sort,
> and the client learned to live with them.
> Brenda
> 
> << Gotta love those lily pads in the Johnsons' building. Not sure if I
>  missed this part or not, but did they say what they did about the water
>  leaks? >>
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 12 07:20:15 1998
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To: "bojan gorenèiè" <bojan.gorencic@siol.net>
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Subject: Re: advice
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:47:32 -0500
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References: <<1998Nov12.95647.0>>
Organization: Cox's Mower Service
Precedence: bulk

This post arrived in my inbox, and was 'empty' when I opened it. That is
because it was sent -
Content-Type: 
                multipart/alternative;

Others may have received a garbled mess of binary code. Some mail
software cannot decode anything but text.  

Please set your options on your mailer software to 'text' or 'plain
text'. Unlike the misconception posted to this list a few days ago, the
whole world does not use Outlook Express. The ONLY way a post will make
it undisturbed to a mailing list is to sent TEXT, no multipart,
alternative ASCII, or HTML documents. Members of this list use Netscape,
PINE, Eudora and other software. Not all of use have PPP accounts.
Members with SLIP access using PINE may not have graphic capability.
Please be considerate of others 
Adults are obsolete children
		Theodore Geisel

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 12 07:46:59 1998
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Subject: Re: Chihuly over Venice.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:56:06 -0500
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I saw the show in sections, as I got called away the first night, in the
middle, for a half hour or so. Missed the road trips to Waterford,
Mexico etc. Caught up the next night when it was replayed. 
The one thing I got from it was that although we here all love glass,
Dale Chihuly has managed to carry on a long term love affair with glass.
I'm jealous. 
-- 
Adults are obsolete children
		Theodore Geisel

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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Different mirror disaster question
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:40:43 -0500 (EST)
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At 11:38 AM 11/10/98 -0500, M. Savad wrote:
>Steve Wernecke wrote:
>> 
>> Some time ago I scratched the back of a mirror I was making.  The scratch
>> is minor, and you have to look carefully to see it.  Resilvering is out of
>> the question, so I just chalked it up to experience.  The question:  Has
>> anyone played around with quick fixes for such a problem?  Aluminum foil
>> and silver nail polish are obvious materials that might help...or (my fear)
>> might make it worse.
>> 
>> Steve
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
>as far as i know there is'nt any way to repair mirror in this manor.
>covering it, or making a design in the back of the mirror, would be the
>only real way to hide it...
>
>---Mike Savad

I disagree Mike.  For tiny little pinprick holes, I have glued very small
mirrored glass chards to the back of the mirror, and it made the whole
thing disappear!  Can't be very large to do that, of course but it does work! 

Garden of Glass
Joyce Moran
Ohio
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 12 08:05:05 1998
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From: "K. See" <atf@socent.org>
To: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Mirrors
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:38:10 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov12.43810.0>
References: <<1998Nov11.104649.0>>
Organization: SOC Enterprises
Precedence: bulk

Hi Peggy, Fluxomatic is the brand I was taught to use. It is a
non-evaporating clear gel that rinses off with water, fumeless & non-acid.
It last quite awhile. I use mirror on boxes & candle holders & have never
had a problem. Warner-Crivellaro & all others carry it. As with anything
its what your used to. I wouldn't use anything else.
K. See
Alexandria, VA (10 miles from our nations capital)

Peggy W. Johnsen wrote:

> Hi JK:  You mentioned using a special flux for mirrors?  Do you have a
> brandname for such.  I am not sure I have ever heard of one but sounds
> like I would like to check it out.  Peggy
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Thu Nov 12 08:19:42 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: FLW on PBS
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:56:19 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov12.55619.0>
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Message text written by Suzanne
>Gotta love those lily pads in the Johnsons' building. Not sure if I
missed this part or not, but did they say what they did about the water
leaks?<

No, they never said how the problem was fixed.  Personally,
I didn't like the lily pads at all, but LOVED Fallingwaters!

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 12 08:50:30 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re:  Chihuly over Venice.
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:01:26 +0000
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....Not to mention mutilating your tummy-button with soldering in the 
buff in the garden lit by a balmy summer midnight moon....
Hey what folks?!!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK (who is wondering about dancing about the 
lawn in a s.g. tu-tu...)

> Sparks  wrote:
> 
> (p.s. if slicing yourself is art, then everybody here must be Picasso,
> Rembrandt, da Vinci, etc. reincarnated!)
> ----
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 12 08:54:25 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Copper foil
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:56:13 -0500
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Message text written by INTERNET:CWWSLW@aol.com
>I've just started working with some black-backed copperfoil, making litt=
le
clear display boxes for work. Is it just my imagination, or is this stuff=

thinner than reg foil? When I run a bead of solder on it, the edges want =
to
pull up a bit.<

Copper foil not only comes in different widths (i.e. 3/16",
7/32", 1/4", etc.) but also different thicknesses (i.e. 1 mil,
1.5 mil, etc.).  So be sure to go for the heavier mil.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 12 09:16:01 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: more solder questions
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:56:22 -0500
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Message text written by Suzanne
>When you use a *non* lead solder after using lead solder, do you need to=

use a different tip on your iron? >

Same tip.  Make sure you clean it the tip very well between
using the different types of solder.

< Can you use the same flux different solders, or do the different fluxes=

have different uses?<

Same flux.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 12 09:22:50 1998
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: INFORMATION UPDATE: ELISABETH IN USA
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:51:52 -0800
Message-ID: <199811121651.IAA15778@oceanus.island.net>
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Elisabeth is totally swamped with emails requesting information regarding
her North American visit next summer...so to bring everyone up to date on
what's happening, we thought it was about time to answer a lot of everyone's
questions with one fell swoop to take some of the pressure off Elisabeth.

Due to overwhelming interest in Elisabeth's trip to the US next summer, we
want to bring you all up to date on what's happening.  First, we've dubbed
this visit the E-TOUR.  We'll use that name in the subject line for any
emails providing additional information.  The visit to Warner-Crivallero has
been expanded to tenatively include the following locations: PEnnsylvania
(Warner/Crivallero), Florida, Colorado, Pacific NW (probably Seattle) and
southern California.

We're in the process of securing sponsorship to cover Elisabeth's costs in
each of these locations.  We have formed a group we call the eteam to assist
Elisabeth in putting this all together and handle the logistics. Right now
Eteam east consists of Lenore and Suzy-Suzanne, and the Eteam west consists
of myself (Carol Swann) and Pamela Burns-Tappan.  We're probably also adding
Eteam south with a 5th member...Lee Boe in Florida.

It also appears that the topic(s) Elisabeth will be bringing will center
around specialized lead came techniques used in the UK which may not be
familiar or commonly used in the US.  We will have one or both of the
following events at the various presentation sites: a short demonstration
and lecture for a large group and/or an intensive roll up your sleeves and
get dirty workshop.  The intensive workshop will have a fee attached, again
to help cover Elisabeth's costs in being here.

Right now our planning at the broad brush level and you know about as much
as we do.  We're soliciting sponsorship, and we'll have more information,
including dates for you in the New Year, along with the contact person for
the stop closest to you, so stay tuned...We're going to work hard at keeping
the bungi group involved as well as looking at other venues for publicizing
these events.  No one will be left out (well, unless perhaps their computer
crashes!!).

Elisabeth
Lenore
Suzy-Suzanne
Pamela 
Carol
Lee

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 12 09:48:22 1998
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From: "Lynn Alchin" <crzylynna@email.msn.com>
To: "Fellow Artists" <Glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Looking for a bevel cluster
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:02:11 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Nov12.3211.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all;
I have a book called, "Bevel Window Designs", by Wardell. My distributor
can not(or won't) locate a bevel cluster that is the back of the book.
Page 70, cluster CH-26. Does anyone know who Bevel King is, how I can
get a hold of them, or any place else that I can find this cluster at
??? I have a client that I am doing a bathroom window for, and before I
can start the design, I have to find this cluster!!!!
Thanks All
Lynn in AZ.



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From owner-glass Thu Nov 12 09:52:44 1998
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From: Steve Wernecke <wernecke@ix.netcom.com>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Fallingwater open to public?
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:06:53 -0800
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Can one tour Fallingwater or is it necessary to sneak through the woods to
get a peak?

Steve
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 12 10:11:44 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: FLW on PBS
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:25:24 EST
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We are here!!!!  a who herself...

For those interested the Frank Lloyd Wright show will be shown in its entirety
on Sunday afternoon 3pm on our PBS channel in Phila.  Check your listings, it
may be on again in your area.  Must be a sweeps week or something.

I remember the guide at Fallingwater telling us the house was originally
designed without screens, and that the family had many "visitors"......so many
that eventually screens were made for the windows.......after much kicking and
screaming from you know who....maybe they were overrun with box elder
bugs.....

Maureen (who paused the tape ooops! and will be retapping on Sunday.)
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 12 10:49:28 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: bojan.gorencic@siol.net, glass@bungi.com
Subject: advice
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:37:03, -0500
Message-ID: <199811121837.NAA13926@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>Hello
I`m new in this.I need suggestion how to work with a large window, 
size =
106cm x 65cm.I will fit it in door.But I don`now , should I work with 
=
foil or lead profile technic.I don`t now how to make window =
stronger.Should Imake a termopan window.Will heavy window make a =
difficult for door. Should I put a channel around the edges.Thank you 
   =
Bojan email: bojan.gorencic@siol.net<<

I am assuming your window is 65 cm wide and 106 cm tall. For door 
panels I like to place the stained glass on the inside of a sheet of 
tempered glass 4 or 5mm thick. That should take care of most of the 
strength problems.

All stained glass needs a good border to insure it does not pull 
apart. I would select 1/2" flat H lead for the border of the window 
no matter what the method of construction.

The window and tempered glass combined will not be excessively heavy 
for any normal door.

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026
Want to talk glass? Join E-mail list:     glass@intrastar.net
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 12 11:17:23 1998
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From: Bob the Dinosaur <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Fallingwater open to public?
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:44:07 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov12.8447.0>
References: <<3.0.3.32.19981112090653.00d9eb70@popd.ix.netcom.com>>
Organization: Cox's Mower Service
Precedence: bulk

Yes it is, and is quite popular. I had a url for a number of FLW links,
but it has gone dead. The property no is owned/run by the Western
Pennsylvania Conservancy, whose link is also sour (as of now, anyway).

Try yahoo - I found a bunch of FLW -
http://dir.yahoo.com/Arts/Design_Arts/Architecture/History/Architects/Wright__Frank_Lloyd__1867_1959_/
one of the hits should get you to visitors info.   
-- 
Adults are obsolete children
		Theodore Geisel

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 12 11:24:44 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Fallingwater open to public?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:29:23 +0000
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> Can one tour Fallingwater or is it necessary to sneak through the woods to
> get a peak?

It's a "museum" now, Steve. Open to the public. The "richies" have 
pretty much turned their properties over to the state these days, 
since they get both a tax writeoff for doing so and the state (you 
and me) gets to pay for the repairs, maintenance, and upkeep. The 
fees one pays to visit the homes of the formerly rich (or the former 
homes of the as-a-result-of-great-tax-deals still rich) offset (at 
least partially) those costs.

Albert
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 12 11:53:10 1998
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From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, crzylynna@email.msn.com
Subject: Looking for a bevel cluster
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:03:25, -0500
Message-ID: <199811121903.OAA12560@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>Hi all;
I have a book called, "Bevel Window Designs", by Wardell. My 
distributor
can not(or won't) locate a bevel cluster that is the back of the book.

Page 70, cluster CH-26. Does anyone know who Bevel King is, how I 
can
get a hold of them, or any place else that I can find this cluster 
at
??? I have a client that I am doing a bathroom window for, and before 
I
can start the design, I have to find this cluster!!!!
Thanks All
Lynn in AZ.<<

Hollanders in Los Angeles carries Bevel King and lists CH-26 in their 
current catalog. 

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026
Want to talk glass? Join E-mail list:     glass@intrastar.net
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 12 12:20:53 1998
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Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 20:28:45 -0000
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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-----Original Message-----
From: bojan goren=E8i=E8 <bojan.gorencic@siol.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: 12 november 1998 9:56
Subject: advice


Hello
I`m new in this.I need suggestion how to work with a large window, size =
106cm x 65cm.I will fit it in door.But I don`now , should I work with =
foil or lead profile technic.I don`t now how to make window =
stronger.Should Imake a termopan window.Will heavy window make a =
difficult for door. Should I put a channel around the edges.Thank you    =
Bojan email: bojan.gorencic@siol.net =20
Is it ok now?

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<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
</B>bojan goren=E8i=E8 &lt;<A=20
href=3D"mailto:bojan.gorencic@siol.net">bojan.gorencic@siol.net</A>&gt;<B=
R><B>To:=20
</B><A href=3D"mailto:glass@bungi.com">glass@bungi.com</A> &lt;<A=20
href=3D"mailto:glass@bungi.com">glass@bungi.com</A>&gt;<BR><B>Date: =
</B>12=20
november 1998 9:56<BR><B>Subject: </B>advice<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hello</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I`m new in this.I need suggestion how to work with a =
large=20
window, size 106cm x 65cm.I will fit it in door.But I don`now , should I =
work=20
with foil or lead profile technic.I don`t now how to make window =
stronger.Should=20
Imake a termopan window.Will heavy window make a difficult for door. =
Should I=20
put a channel around the edges.Thank you&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Bojan email: =
<A=20
href=3D"mailto:bojan.gorencic@siol.net">bojan.gorencic@siol.net</A>&nbsp;=
=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Is it ok now?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_005E_01BE0E7B.2D910E80--

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 12 19:56:06 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio
From: dodgestudio@juno.com
To: Glass@bungi.com
Subject: free pattern
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:27:57 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov12.172757.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Guys,

I've been a bit busy and not really able to keep up with the board,
checking in every couple of days and frantically reading a hundred fifty
posts at a time.  It just occurred to me that i hadn't mentioned to the
group that we're featuring free patterns of the month now.  This month
we've got a Pilgrim guy (who is still available)  and last month was a
Pilgrim gal who is now gone.  If you happened to miss her and want or
need her, I'll gladly send you a copy if you send a self addressed
stamped envelope.  ou can find the address on the web site (address is
below) or e-mail me for it.


Gary Dodge              Dodge Studio Designs

http://www.dodgestudio.com

___________________________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 04:33:11 1998
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X-Path: netrax.net!rejones
From: Bob Jones <rejones@netrax.net>
To: Steve Wernecke <wernecke@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Fallingwater open to public?
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 07:07:47 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov13.2747.0>
References: <<3.0.3.32.19981112090653.00d9eb70@popd.ix.netcom.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Steve Wernecke wrote:

> Can one tour Fallingwater or is it necessary to sneak through the woods to
> get a peak?
>
> Steve

Anyone can tour Fallingwater.  It may be a bit pricey for some.  I think the
tour of the interior is about $15.00 or $20.00.  Not sure of the amount.  To
tour the grounds may be free.  It's been several years since I have been
there.

Bob


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From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 04:56:49 1998
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X-Path: mail.bright.net!joyce
From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Chihuly 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 07:14:57 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981113071456.006d2634@mail.bright.net>
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I thought the reason he threw all the stuff in the water, was for the water
test he chastized one of his workers about in the beginning of the show.
To prove that the glass had no defects and would not shatter when they were
building the chandeliers.  He wanted the strongest globes for them and if
they withstood the water test, they were of sufficient quality to make it
into a chandelier.

Garden of Glass
Joyce Moran

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From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 05:09:20 1998
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From: glasschic <joyce@mail.bright.net>
To: <Glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Looking for a bevel cluster
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 07:34:18 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981113073416.006b0154@mail.bright.net>
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At 10:02 AM 11/12/98 -0700, Lynn Alchin wrote:
>Hi all;
>I have a book called, "Bevel Window Designs", by Wardell. My distributor
>can not(or won't) locate a bevel cluster that is the back of the book.
>Page 70, cluster CH-26. Does anyone know who Bevel King is, how I can
>get a hold of them, or any place else that I can find this cluster at
>??? I have a client that I am doing a bathroom window for, and before I
>can start the design, I have to find this cluster!!!!
>Thanks All
>Lynn in AZ.

I also had a client pick out a bevel cluster from that book, and was told
that the clusters are available in Canada (pretty much only) and I ended up
subsituting an American Bevel instead, and the client was just as happy.  I
was not pleased with the effort it took me to find out that information
however.  I think someone as big as Randy Wardell should be accessible, but
I guess that's not the case.  There are just too many bevel clusters for
most wholesalers to stock more than one or two lines.

Garden of Glass
Joyce Moran

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From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 06:06:57 1998
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X-Path: city-net.com!dany
From: "Daniela Birkelbach" <dany@city-net.com>
To: "Bob Jones" <rejones@netrax.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Fallingwater open to public?
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 07:48:52 -0500
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I was there a couple weeks ago on a weekday and it was $8.00 p.P.  I
believe on weekends it's 12.00$.  

Very interesting and very beautiful, though.  It had been my third trip up
there.  If you can go to Youghiogheny Glass on the same day, you can save
so much money in buying glass that it will pay for your admission in no
time!

Be sure to call (724) information, city is "Mill Run"  and make tour
reservations.  You can ask any necessary details, then.


Dany

Daniela Birkelbach
Software Consultant
dany@city-net.com             http://www.city-net.com/~dany
**********************************************************************
"Black holes are where God divided by zero!"
Steven Wright
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 08:07:53 1998
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X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad
From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: homemade filigree
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:45:29 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov13.54529.0>
Precedence: bulk

About a week ago, I mentioned that I was playing around withmaking my
own filigree from a sheet of  adhesive copper I found tucked away in the
back of my cabinet.  It was sealed up well and the adhesive was okay and
it takes solder well, so I've been playing with it in my "free" time
(translation, while I'm waiting for the water to boil for supper...it's
that time of year, 4 special orders to finish, two to quote, 3 more
craft fairs to do and I need angels!...)  I've been trying a couple of
little things for Christmas tree decorations.  Here's what is working
best and is easiest, keeping in mind that I'm not doing anything
complicated or with narrow, narrow lines like you can get with brass
filigree, and that the whole piece of glass is being comvered with the
filigree.
(1) Draw out your filigree.  If you do a lot, you'll want several
copies.
(2) I make a cardboard template of the shape I'm going to cover
(3) cut the glass and make sure it matches the template.  Clean the
glass.
(4) put the paper design over the copper sheet and, making sure it can't
shift, trace the design with ball point pen (this is why you'll need
several.  I assume that eventually you'll trace through the paper
pattern).  This indents the pattern into the copper sheet.
(5) using a craft knife, I cut out the interior filigree pieces.  Peel
away the excess copper.
(6) Cut out the whole filigree.  I cut one edge exactly on the line and
the others near, but not on the marked edge.  This gives you some slop.
(7) Peel back the paper from the exactly cut edge and trim it off.
(8)Line up the exactly cut edge of the filigree with your glass piece.
That's only sticky piece uncovered, so it shouldn't be too hard to line
it up fairly exactly and stick it down.
(9) Removing the rest of the backing,roll the rest of the filigree out
and stick it down.  It should line up closely with the edges of your
glass with some overlap.It you want to touch up the filigree, do it now,
being careful not to scratch the glass.
(10) Trim the sticking out edges of foil and burnish the filigree to
your glass.
(11)  Foil the edges of your glass as you normally would.  This will
cover many errors!  Burnish foil.
(12) Lightly flux the filigree.
(13)  I solder rather hot, so I turn the soldering iron down to a
moderate temperature and gently dot the solder onto the filigree.  With
the right temperature and care, I can get a nice bead on the filigree.
(14) Put your whole piece together.  For example, I'm doing a Christmas
tree with a glass blob curved into the top, so I'll now solder on the
glob, do the back, tin the edges, put on  a little wire loop to hand it
by..
(15) Clean and patina and polish.  Just be gentle with the cleaning.

for these little ornaments, I think bright colors work well.

Dorothy K



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From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 08:36:34 1998
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X-Path: escape.ca!bethan
From: "D. B. Theunissen" <bethan@escape.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: came
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:24:48 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19981113231605.12670708@escape.ca>
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Hi

Sorry to keep harping on this subject, but since I started doing stained
glass, I of course notice the stained glass in people's houses far more.
(I have a job that takes me into a fair number of people's homes.)  I
believe that most of the dnagers of stained glass windows are in the
manufacturing, yet when I talk about these hanging windows, etc, I find
that people have no idea that they are dealing with lead.  And because of
this they are not keeping things out of the reach of animals or children.  

I don't want to alarm them unnecessarily, but I don't know whether the
patina in any way blocks the lead content from an animal or child  licking
it. If there is any danger, do people selling stained glass inform people
in any way?  Should I tell people who have bought stained glass, or would I
be causing unnecessary alarm.  

Thanks
Bethan


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From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 10:09:58 1998
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Tiny Tip Solder Iron
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:48:34 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov13.74834.0>
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Just to share with the group:

Sometime back I bought a tiny tipped (1/8 inch) solder iron at Lowes. It is 
a Popular Mechanics brand. Well, it has just been sitting around waiting 
for the need. I found the need and it works great.

I was making small coke bottle inserts for a panel lamp shade for my sister 
for Christmas and since the coke bottle shape is only about 4 inches tall, 
one piece, I was having trouble putting the wire detail on with a large 
iron. Out comes the tiny iron and it works just great for joining small 
pieces of wire without putting a large blob of solder everywhere and 
overheating the piece.

I can see that when I get into making the platform and handrails on a 3-d 
lighthouse for my brother this iron will really help. Just thought I'd 
share. Maybe some of you already use a small iron but this was my first 
experience with one and I really con't know how I ever did without it. Ican 
also see where it may come in handy for decorative soldering since it keeps 
the heat down.

Linda Campbell

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From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 11:10:20 1998
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: dodgestudio@juno.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Need Pattern
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:47:54 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1998Nov13.14754.0>
References: <<1998Nov12.172757.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi All:  Does anyone know where I might find a pattern for a rottweiler?
Any clues or directions would be appreciated.  Peggy

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From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 11:38:46 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Tiny Tip Solder Iron
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:21:33 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov13.92133.0>
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Hi Linda-

You can get even smaller =

soldering iron tips than 1/8".
Those are used mostly for
electronics work.  I have an
1/8" tip for my Weller 100
and I would imagine the =

other iron manufacturers =

sell smaller tips also.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 12:08:11 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: bethan@escape.ca, glass@bungi.com, glass@intrastar.net
Subject: Lead dangers again
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:23:28, -0500
Message-ID: <199811131923.OAA14758@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>I don't want to alarm them unnecessarily, but I don't know whether 
the
patina in any way blocks the lead content from an animal or child  
licking
it. If there is any danger, do people selling stained glass inform 
people
in any way?  Should I tell people who have bought stained glass, or 
would I
be causing unnecessary alarm.  

Thanks
Bethan<<

Good question, Bethan. I do not have any authorative answers for you. 


It seems a good bet that copper patina isolates lead and wax would do 
the same. Of course, with time, patina and wax will wear off. Black 
patina and its byproducts could not be very good for you either.

A few years ago someone bought in a candy dish with cover for repair. 
It was assembled with lead came. When I pointed out the lead problem 
he said he only used it to feed treats to his dog. I refused to 
repair the dish and the would be customer went away mumbling 
something under his breath. I got the idea that he believed that 
because the dish existed it could be safely used.

I do not make covers for tissue boxes or jewelry or other things that 
can convey lead to the body unless I use lead free solder. Then I 
wonder about the other admixtures in lead free solder like antimony.

I would not be surprised if someday things like suncatchers and 
jewelery were outlawed unless they were at least electroplated to 
seal in the lead. 

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 12:45:29 1998
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X-Path: email.msn.com!crzylynna
From: "Lynn Alchin" <crzylynna@email.msn.com>
To: "Fellow Artists" <Glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Tanks for the info!!!
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:19:29 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Nov13.61929.0>
Precedence: bulk

Thanks everyone for the info. on the Bevel King Clusters. I think I have
found where to get a hold of them...Now to check with my client for $$$!

Lynn in AZ.



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From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 12:51:56 1998
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From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: came
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:57:59 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <199811131957.LAA12597@ns2.vphos.net>
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Hi Bethan,

Wow...
Why in the heck would anyone let a child or animal to continue to lick lead???
It's like the child here in Canada, who had been chewing on a necklace that
had been surrounded in lead!!! If your child is chewing on something like
that they obviously aren't old enough to wear it.
I would think if it was a situation like a toddler having a SG sun catcher
in the crib, it shouldn't be there.
But if the kid is crawling across the floor to chew on a window!!!
Hmmm, that would be tough...afew smackes on the butt might be the plan.
Cindy
PS...if you are concerned that common sense isn't the order of the day with
some folks....I'd gladly mention it:)

>I don't want to alarm them unnecessarily, but I don't know whether the
>patina in any way blocks the lead content from an animal or child  licking
>it. If there is any danger, do people selling stained glass inform people
>in any way?  Should I tell people who have bought stained glass, or would I
>be causing unnecessary alarm.  
>
>Thanks
>Bethan
>
>
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>
>

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From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 13:09:21 1998
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Lead dangers again
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 15:23:40 +0000
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> patina in any way blocks the lead content from an animal or child  
> licking it. If there is any danger, do people selling stained glass inform 
> people in any way?  Should I tell people who have bought stained glass, or 
> would I be causing unnecessary alarm.  

My 2c worth? If your customers see their kids eating paint chips, do 
they just shrug and say, "Kids!" I hope not. Same thing with that 
pesky habit of licking the kitchen cabinet doors, I'd think.

I suppose you could say to each client, "Please don't let your kids 
and pets lick the stained glass; it's not good for them," but there 
are probably lots of things in their homes (bleach, motor oil, etc.) 
that they already are keeping out of reach of or warning kids away 
from, so perhaps a caring "by the way, you should know" would work 
just fine. It wouldn't be necessary to imitate the robot (the *old 
robot) on "Lost in Space" or, heaven forbid, the professor!

Albert
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From: Nadine Beth Schneider <nadinesfolly@erols.com>
To: Glass List <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: dragon pattern
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:24:12 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov13.112412.0>
Organization: Custom Art Glass Studio
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone!

I have spent most of the afternoon on
the internet looking for a dragon that
would be suitable to make into a pattern
for a window 8" wide by 24" long. So
far, I have come up with zippety-do-da.

Can anyone help? 

         Nadine
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 14:43:05 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Albert Lewis <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Lead dangers again
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:17:01 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov13.10171.0>
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Precedence: bulk

> It wouldn't be necessary to imitate the robot (the *old 
> robot) on "Lost in Space" or, heaven forbid, the professor!
> 
> Albert


Got a good chuckle from that Albert, as I do it all the time! ;o)
"Danger, Danger, Will Robinson"  Of course, neither of my kids have a
clue what it's about.  

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 15:10:29 1998
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From: tuka@bc.sympatico.ca
To: Glass List <glass@bungi.com>,
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Subject: Re: dragon pattern
Summary: Authenticated sender is <a1a84211@mail.bctel.ca>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:42:30 +0000
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Precedence: bulk

Try 

http://www.draconian.com

There might be some ideas here that help.

Shiela


> Hi everyone!
> 
> I have spent most of the afternoon on
> the internet looking for a dragon that
> would be suitable to make into a pattern
> for a window 8" wide by 24" long. So
> far, I have come up with zippety-do-da.
> 
> Can anyone help? 
> 
>          Nadine
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> 
> 
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 15:52:44 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Nadine Beth Schneider <nadinesfolly@erols.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: dragon pattern
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:38:36 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov13.123836.0>
References: <<1998Nov13.112412.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Nadine Beth Schneider wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone!
> 
> I have spent most of the afternoon on
> the internet looking for a dragon that
> would be suitable to make into a pattern
> for a window 8" wide by 24" long. So
> far, I have come up with zippety-do-da.
> 
> Can anyone help?
> 
>          Nadine
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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try http://www.draconian.com/

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 15:59:24 1998
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X-Path: i2020.net!wickline
From: "Robert G. and Rebecca T. Wickline" <wickline@i2020.net>
To: Nadine Beth Schneider <nadinesfolly@erols.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: dragon pattern
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:37:02 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov13.12372.0>
References: <<1998Nov13.112412.0>>
Organization: Personal
Precedence: bulk

Nadine-
    Found my soft spot. Love dragons.  In Dreamword by Rosema there is a
really neat sun catcher.  I've made lots and they sell great.  In Return
to dreamwold  there are a couple of more.   Also in Glas Design
Wandbilder (wall pictures) a really neat mosaic.  Finally in Window
designs by Aurora  there is a nice circle dragon.
    Let me know if this helps.  I probably have more but that's all I've
dug up right now.
                    Becky

Nadine Beth Schneider wrote:

> Hi everyone!
>
> I have spent most of the afternoon on
> the internet looking for a dragon that
> would be suitable to make into a pattern
> for a window 8" wide by 24" long. So
> far, I have come up with zippety-do-da.
>
> Can anyone help?
>
>          Nadine
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 16:16:12 1998
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X-Path: escape.ca!bethan
From: "D. B. Theunissen" <bethan@escape.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Lead dangers again
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:46:13 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19981114063729.22b79b9a@escape.ca>
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Hi

I guess my point is simply that many people do not know that there is lead
in stained glass windows, and in fact I did not until I started doing them.
 I work in a church building with stained glass windows everywhere, and
children play around the sanctuary all the time.  IT would never even have
occurred to me till now that we need to warn parents to tell their kids not
to lick them.  

I am glad about the person who refused to repair the 'dog treat' box, but
if people do not tell you what it is used for, one might assume that they
know the dangers involved.  It seems to me that stained glass people may
assume that everyone is aware what is in the product, but most people I
know see stained glass and think, how pretty!  They do not think, "O,
beautiful thing that I should hang out of the reach of my kids and cats, etc.

Anyway, as someone who is a beginner at this craft, I am aware of the gulf
between the knowledge of the 'before-glass Bethan' and the 'after-glass
Bethan.   I would hate to think what I may have done with stained glass
items in the past had I had any.  (I even wonder what I might do today,
since I tend to be unconscious about when I lick my fingers etc.)

Enough now Bethan
Chow
Bethan
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 16:42:23 1998
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From: Klmxklm@aol.com
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Tinning
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 19:12:03 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov14.0123.0>
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Hi Everyone:
How would you all proceed to tin a length of ladder or ball chain to make it
nice and shiny without sticking many of the links together?  Is there an easy,
efficient way?  Thanks.
"Mike" Mikolajczak
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 17:56:37 1998
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X-Path: waterw.com!artglass
From: "pj friend" <artglass@waterw.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Patron Saint
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 20:23:54 -0500
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE0F43.88C09320
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Good evening,

I know that back a few we discussed the Patron Saint of Stained Glass.
I looked through the archives and couldn't seem to find it.
Does anyone have a copy of the url of the place where I might find it?

I would greatly appreciate it.

thanks.

my best,
pj
www.waterw.com/~artglass


------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE0F43.88C09320
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Good evening,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I know that back a few we discussed =
the Patron=20
Saint of Stained Glass.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I looked through the archives and =
couldn't seem=20
to find it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Does anyone have a copy of the url =
of the place=20
where I might find it?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I would greatly appreciate =
it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>thanks.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>my best,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>pj</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.waterw.com/~artglass">www.waterw.com/~artglass</A></FO=
NT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE0F43.88C09320--

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From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 18:13:32 1998
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X-Path: hotmail.com!agacic
From: "Alex Gacic" <agacic@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Lilac pattern
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:28:40 PST
Message-ID: <1998Nov14.12840.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi, everyone

Its funny how once people find out you do stain glass,  you start 
getting requests.  I just got a very important one from my MOM!  She 
would like another one to compliment one of my early (just learning) 
works that I gave her.  She was a safe bet for one of my first ones.  I 
know she loves lilacs but I dont recall seeing any in any of my pattern 
books.

Any leads would be appreciated.

Thanks
Alex Gacic
Proud son



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 18:45:14 1998
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!vlg
From: "Vic LaGreca" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: "D. B. Theunissen" <bethan@escape.ca>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Lead dangers again
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 21:10:50 -0500
Message-ID: <19981114020702.DYKA8960@vic>
Precedence: bulk

Bethan:

If you think it's dangerous, and he thinks it's dangerous, and she thinks
it's dangerous, how soon before THEY SAY ITS DANGEROUS?

I agree that Bob's refusal to repair the container was the way to go.  On
the other hand that container shouldn't have been made with lead in the
first place.  I have seen terrariums made using lead came, and then
advertised as excellent containers to grow herbs in.  I have seen cute
little Disney characters, you know the kind, the ones that children play
with, made with came and solder that contained lead.  How about
three-dimensional "toys" like cars, trucks and planes?  Do you know of any
child who could resist playing with them?  I've seen them made with lead
came and solder.

If my life has taught me anything, it is better to err on the plus side
than the minus.  

If I were making stained glass items for sale, and using lead in any way, I
would definitely mention the lead content.  In fact I would label it as
such.  Or else you may find yourself on the short side of a lawsuit some
day or at the very least, highly regulated.

Ciao

Vic


----------
> From: D. B. Theunissen <bethan@escape.ca>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: Lead dangers again
> Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 6:46 PM
> 
> Hi
> 
> I guess my point is simply that many people do not know that there is
lead
> in stained glass windows, and in fact I did not until I started doing
them.
>  I work in a church building with stained glass windows everywhere, and
> children play around the sanctuary all the time.  IT would never even
have
> occurred to me till now that we need to warn parents to tell their kids
not
> to lick them.  
> 
> I am glad about the person who refused to repair the 'dog treat' box, but
> if people do not tell you what it is used for, one might assume that they
> know the dangers involved.  It seems to me that stained glass people may
> assume that everyone is aware what is in the product, but most people I
> know see stained glass and think, how pretty!  They do not think, "O,
> beautiful thing that I should hang out of the reach of my kids and cats,
etc.
> 
> Anyway, as someone who is a beginner at this craft, I am aware of the
gulf
> between the knowledge of the 'before-glass Bethan' and the 'after-glass
> Bethan.   I would hate to think what I may have done with stained glass
> items in the past had I had any.  (I even wonder what I might do today,
> since I tend to be unconscious about when I lick my fingers etc.)
> 
> Enough now Bethan
> Chow
> Bethan
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 19:46:02 1998
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X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet
From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: "bungi list" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: What a Week!
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 22:10:07 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov13.17107.0>
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Great idea, right now there's enough crud on my cabinets for a meal and I
wouldn't have to cook,   Hey kids, come here a minute..........        >
<Snip>

>Same thing with that  pesky habit of licking the kitchen cabinet >doors,
I'd think.
>Albert
>
Hi everyone!!  I've had a rough week, but things are looking up now.  This
computers been a nightmare so far,  they replaced the CD ROM on the 4th, on
the 5th the modem died.  Four phone calls to tech support and about 4 hours
of trying all their "fixes" including a full restore  (the 2nd one in a week
and a half),  they say they'll send a new modem (in 5 to 7 days).  The
machine was only out of the box for 42  *^$@#$^*&  days.  By this point I
was ugly... real ugly, dropped Compaq a line, have yet to hear from them.
The new CD ROM is acting weird- too slow, seems to stall.  Might have to
spend the rest of my life lobbying for LEMON LAWS for computers.

From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 21:13:35 1998
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------063CE8D77502047303B6885F"
Subject: Non-Glass-Iraq
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 20:44:06 -0800
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Organization: Stained Glass Artists
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--------------063CE8D77502047303B6885F
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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This week a high school in Milwaukee Oregon celebrated Living History
Day. The students raised $18.000.00 in order for them to invite 600
veterans to their school for the day. The men and women from World War
2, Korea, Vietnam and Desert Storm came, spoke and shared with the
students who weren't even born at the time when these conflicts
occurred, except for Desert Storm.

All the vets spoke with the same emotion they did when they first came
back to the states. All share unspoken memories, pain and wisdom.

Some of us say good-bye to loved ones/friends as we increase our troop
resources in the middle east. We wonder about the fate of our nation and
the fate of world peace yet again. If you live near a military air base
you have heard, as I have this week, the thunder of the planes as they
go about maneuvers and wonder what they must be feeling in that cockpit.

To those of us who bid adieu to our loved ones headed for the Persian
gulf let's hope for a successful & final solution to this unrest. To the
people here in the states who are blessed in our "safe" environment
remember the people who have fought for our country so valiantly that we
may enjoy freedom.

Pam *sm*

(this political post was meant to be reflective not offensive so I hope
nobody was intruded upon).
--
*********************************
The Stained Glass Artists
Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director:
Advertising & Marketing


Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

Join our live glass chat!
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.igga.org/


--------------063CE8D77502047303B6885F
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
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<HTML>


<P>This week a high school in Milwaukee Oregon celebrated Living History
Day. The students raised $18.000.00 in order for them to invite 600 veterans
to their school for the day. The men and women from World War 2, Korea,
Vietnam and Desert Storm came, spoke and shared with the students who weren't
even born at the time when these conflicts occurred, except for Desert
Storm.

<P>All the vets spoke with the same emotion they did when they first came
back to the states. All share unspoken memories, pain and wisdom.

<P>Some of us say good-bye to loved ones/friends as we increase our troop
resources in the middle east. We wonder about the fate of our nation and
the fate of world peace yet again. If you live near a military air base
you have heard, as I have this week, the thunder of the planes as they
go about maneuvers and wonder what they must be feeling in that cockpit.

<P>To those of us who bid adieu to our loved ones headed for the Persian
gulf let's hope for a successful &amp; <B>final</B> solution to this unrest.
To the people here in the states who are blessed in our "safe" environment
remember the people who have fought for our country so valiantly that we
may enjoy freedom.

<P>Pam *sm*

<P>(this political post was meant to be reflective not offensive so I hope
nobody was intruded upon).
<BR>--
<BR>*********************************
<BR>The Stained Glass Artists
<BR>Pamela Burns-Tappan
<BR>Executive Director:
<BR>Advertising &amp; Marketing
<BR>&nbsp;

<P>Proud Member Of:

<P>The Stained Glass Artists
<BR><A HREF="http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html">http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html</A>

<P>Join our live glass chat!
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 22:15:11 1998
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From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Bio # 68  Karen Klomparens
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 00:15:13 -0500
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Hi Ladies,  sorry it's taking so long to answer you questions, had technical problems..  I was attending a couple of Bluegrass festivals with friends every year, take the camper, my 8yr.. old daughter, and Moose..  The smallest one wasn't even charging the vendors to setup..  And you got to hook up to their electric only if you were a vendor..  And on top of that you were parked just inside the fence right in the stage area (with the playground in sight -big plus for me)..  So I signed up for t!
he following summer..  By then they were smart enough to charge a small fee to the vendors (I couldn't believe it but the established vendors were all complaining over paying a fee)..  I brought my glass stuff and had many other items such as jewelry, painted kids sweat suits and dresses, hair ties, and anything I had left from all the various crafts I've done over the years..  I didn't make a killing but it was definitely worth it, I was going up there anyway..  My only regret was that I did!
n't have more time to design and make musical  instruments, people started to ask for them..                ..                                                                                                                    There is a huge Bluegrass festival in September called Wheatland held in Remus, MI..  They are dedicated to the preservation of traditional music and art..  Musicians and artists come from all over the country..  They have really awesome crafts there,  quite pricey but pe!
ople are willing to pay it..  Here you could do real well..  I have only seen glass here in jewelry..  I don't think I have enough inventory for this festival..  I was a volunteer this year and should have inquired about the fees for vendors, but I was having too much fun!!                                                                    This is the 1 weekend a year that I go with a girlfriend (read this as no husband, no kids, no pets, no responsibilities) and we kick up our heels and cut l!
oose..                                                                                      ..                                                                                                                        Most of this I learned by word of mouth, but I know the following cities in Michigan have Bluegrass festivals..  Nirvana, Oil City, Marshall, outside Ravanna in Muskegon Co..  You could do a search on line and come up with some around where you live..                                 !
                                Karen K..                                                                                                          ..                                                                                                                        >My favorite shows to do are the music festivals where you set up

> right in front of your camper for the weekend,



Oh, that sounds fun!  Tell me more..  Where do they have these shows?  I

have never seen or been to one......and I have lived in Ca, Wa, Ga........



Suzanne



>Yes, I want to know more also!  I always believed, thru reading, that not much

>$ is made at shows that do not specifically showcase crafts first..  Hence, if

>people go to music festivals, they are not very interested in spending money

>on crafts..

>Karen, have you been able to sell enough for it to be worthwhile for you

>attend?

>In PA we have the Philadelphia Folk Festival in a small town called

>Schwenksville for at least the last 20 years (that I have known about it) or

>even longer..  There is also a Blues Festival which I believe is somewhat local

>also..  I know that people do sell crafts but I have never considered selling

>there..

>R..S..V..P..

>Lenore

>





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From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 22:52:41 1998
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Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 00:22:26 -0500
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With the prices we charge for
stained glass, neither animals
nor children can get within yards
of a window.  Sometimes even
husbands are forbidden from
getting too close, much less
touching. ;-)  So, there you have
it.  Raising your prices solves
yet another sticky problem!

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 23:19:30 1998
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From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Mosaic as Glass Panel
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 00:28:02 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov13.19282.0>
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I use a glue called Weld Bond for mosaics, but have not done a piece the way
you describe.  This company has a product guide you can request by calling
(416) 282-1107 or fax (416) 282-8150.  Snail mail is Frank T. Ross & Sons,
LTD.,     2306 Hatchery Rd.,  Spring Grove, IL.  60081    I like this glue
so much I'm trying to convince my local supplier to carry it, she doesn't
care for the product they use now.                        .
Karen K.

From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 23:30:54 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
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Subject: Re: Non-Glass-Iraq
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 00:19:06 -0600
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Thanks Pam.
Last year on Veterans Day, on the news they showed cuts of Veterans
speaking at a local highschool.  When the camera did a sweep of the 
auditorium, it showed several big boys with their feet up on the backs
of the chairs in front of then and sleeping.  It made me so angry, that
it was so disrespectful.  I hope an adult in their life that has more
respect than they did, saw the news and really let em have it
afterwards.  I think frequently how fortunate I am to have been born in
the United States!  We have so much more than most of the people of the
world.  I tend to think about that alot when I feel like we are broke,
yet we are having a decent nourishing meal for breakfast/lunch/dinner,
have carpet and hardwood floors instead of dirt, a warm bed instead of 
a straw mat, etc.  

Suzanne



> This week a high school in Milwaukee Oregon celebrated Living History Day. The students raised $18.000.00 in order for
> them to invite 600 veterans to their school for the day. The men and women from World War 2, Korea, Vietnam and Desert
> Storm came, spoke and shared with the students who weren't even born at the time when these conflicts occurred, except for
> Desert Storm. 

-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 13 23:48:18 1998
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To: "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Fw: Bio # 68  Karen Klomparens
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 01:44:24 -0500
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>Hi Ladies, sorry it's taking so long to answer you questions, had
technical problems. I was attending a couple of Bluegrass festivals with
friends every year, take the camper, my 8yr. old daughter, and Moose. The
smallest one wasn't even charging the vendors to setup. And you got to
hook up to their electric only if you were a vendor. And on top of that
you were parked just inside the fence right in the stage area (with the
playground in sight -big plus for me). So I signed up for the following
summer. By then they were smart enough to charge a small fee to the
vendors (I couldn't believe it but the established vendors were all
complaining over paying a fee). I brought my glass stuff and had many
other items such as jewelry, painted kids sweat suits and dresses, hair
ties, and anything I had left from all the various crafts I've done over
the years. I didn't make a killing but it was definitely worth it, I was
going up there anyway. My only regret was that I didn't have more time to
design and make musical instruments, people started to ask for them. .
There is a huge Bluegrass festival in September called Wheatland held in
Remus, MI. They are dedicated to the preservation of traditional music
and art. Musicians and artists come from all over the country. They have
really awesome crafts there, quite pricey but people are willing to pay
it. Here you could do real well. I have only seen glass here in jewelry.
I don't think I have enough inventory for this festival. I was a
volunteer this year and should have inquired about the fees for vendors,
but I was having too much fun!! This is the 1 weekend a year that I go
with a girlfriend (read this as no husband, no kids, no pets, no
responsibilities) and we kick up our heels and cut loose. . Most of this
I learned by word of mouth, but I know the following cities in Michigan
have Bluegrass festivals. Nirvana, Oil City, Marshall, outside Ravanna in
Muskegon Co. You could do a search on line and come up with some around
where you live. Karen K. . >My favorite shows to do are the music
festivals where you set up
>> right in front of your camper for the weekend,
>
>Oh, that sounds fun! Tell me more. Where do they have these shows? I
>have never seen or been to one...and I have lived in Ca, Wa, Ga....
>
>Suzanne
>
>>Yes, I want to know more also! I always believed, thru reading, that
not much
>>$ is made at shows that do not specifically showcase crafts first.
Hence, if
>>people go to music festivals, they are not very interested in spending
money
>>on crafts.
>>Karen, have you been able to sell enough for it to be worthwhile for
you
>>attend?
>>In PA we have the Philadelphia Folk Festival in a small town called
>>Schwenksville for at least the last 20 years (that I have known about
it) or
>>even longer. There is also a Blues Festival which I believe is somewhat
local
>>also. I know that people do sell crafts but I have never considered
selling
>>there.
>>R.S.V.P.
>>Lenore
>>
>
>
>

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 00:38:53 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Fw: Bio # 68  Karen Klomparens
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 02:50:01 -0500
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Hi Ladies, sorry it's taking so long to answer you questions, had
technical problems. I was attending a couple of Bluegrass festivals with
friends every year, take the camper, my 8yr. old daughter, and Moose. The
smallest one wasn't even charging the vendors to setup. And you got to
hook up to their electric only if you were a vendor. And on top of that
you were parked just inside the fence right in the stage area (with the
playground in sight -big plus for me). So I signed up for the following
summer. By then they were smart enough to charge a small fee to the
vendors (I couldn't believe it but the established vendors were all
complaining over paying a fee). I brought my glass stuff and had many
other items such as jewelry, painted kids sweat suits and dresses, hair
ties, and anything I had left from all the various crafts I've done over
the years. I didn't make a killing but it was definitely worth it, I was
going up there anyway. My only regret was that I didn't have more time to
design and make musical instruments, people started to ask for them.

From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 01:21:39 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: work hazards
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 01:21:17 -0600
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Before My 2 yr old was born I was a social worker in a homeless shelter.
My department paid for me to be tested for TB twice a year since I had a
greater risk of contracting it hanging out with homeless people.

Do any of you get your blood lead levels checked on any kind of regular
basis?  Seems like a pretty reasonable way to determine if your safety
precautions are up to snuff, and it isnt expensive as I recall.

My son's levels were tested about a yr ago, because our house was 75 yrs
old. (since sold and purchased a newer home)  His levels were elevated.
Since I was breastfeeding at the time, I had my blood levels checked as
well.  There was lead present, but not in any alarming level.

I finally figured out he was putting his mouth on a certain part of our
screen door, and wrapped that peice well with a dish cloth and tied it
up with string.  Also filtered our drinking water.  This was enough to
lower his levels after a couple of months.  I cant remember what my
level was, but at least it is on file somewhere.

Maybe in 6 months to a yr, I will go get it tested again,  I am not the
most safety concious person I know (except when it comes to my kids).

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 01:54:29 1998
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Subject: Re: FLW on PBS
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 03:36:31 EST
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They never did say what was done about the leaks in the Johnson 
wax bldg. 
Since I am a big fan of FLW "inspired" windows (just finished a lake geneva,
and am doing two Bradleys) I was dissappointed that so little glass was shown.

I did think that the whole thing was very well done though. Any other comments
from the group??

Richard
Glassics Artglass
Valencia, Ca 
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 02:11:13 1998
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Pamela,

Thank you for the reflection. As I write you, all three of my daughters are
serving in the military, and I am proud of the fact that they serve, but get
worried when these things heat up. My Coast Guard kid is in Honduras, helping
with the disaster . The Navy kid is an air traffic controler, who will
probably get deployed to a carrier if this gets big. Our third, is currently
in the safety of Air Force OCS, for the next thirteen weeks, so this will
probably pass her by, but we sure do worry. It is good of you all to keep our
military people in your thoughts and prayers.

Richard
Glassics Artglass
Valencia, Ca.
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 03:17:40 1998
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Subject: Re: FLW on PBS
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> They never did say what was done about the leaks in the Johnson 
> wax bldg. 

They tore it down. Right? I think I'm right that the Johnson Wax 
building's gone.

> Since I am a big fan of FLW "inspired" windows (just finished a lake geneva,
> and am doing two Bradleys) I was dissappointed that so little glass was shown.

Yes, the program seemed to be about architecture, but not first and 
foremost. More of interest seemed to be the salacious details of his 
turbulent life.
 
> I did think that the whole thing was very well done though. Any other comments
> from the group??

My pickiest comment would be that the "background" music was all too 
often louder than the narration. I suppose that made anything being 
said secondary to the visuals. Burns triumphed with his Civil War 
piece, but I feel like he's just filling in the blanks these days. 
His newer series seem to have less emotional fire than that (or 
"Baseball").

See? I told you I was being picky.

Albert
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 03:35:31 1998
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>
>I don't want to alarm them unnecessarily, but I don't know whether the
>patina in any way blocks the lead content from an animal or child  licking
>it. If there is any danger, do people selling stained glass inform people
>in any way?  Should I tell people who have bought stained glass, or would I
>be causing unnecessary alarm.  

Bethan...good grief...I can imagine pets perhaps licking a panel once, they
can quickly tell whether something is food or not.  But why on earth would
you ever imagine a child would lick the panel?  That makes absolutely no
sense whatsoever.  

C.

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

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Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 06:39:04 -0500
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--------------C5A828BD904C371388D84283
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Suzanne makes a good point.  X-ray techs and radiologists wear badges that
would show if they've received too much radiation, and probably is an OSHA
requirement.  No OSHA safety rules regarding lead used by stained glass,
unless it is a larger facility, but it would be a responsible thing for
anyone who worked with lead to have a blood test at least once a year or if
they have Sx.   I'm not sure if OHSA requires a lead blood level test of
anyone in the stained glass business.  Better off safe I think.

Suzanne wrote:

> Before My 2 yr old was born I was a social worker in a homeless shelter.
> My department paid for me to be tested for TB twice a year since I had a
> greater risk of contracting it hanging out with homeless people.
>
> Do any of you get your blood lead levels checked on any kind of regular
> basis?  Seems like a pretty reasonable way to determine if your safety
> precautions are up to snuff, and it isnt expensive as I recall.
>
>
>
>
>



--------------C5A828BD904C371388D84283
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
Suzanne makes a good point.&nbsp; X-ray techs and radiologists wear badges
that would show if they've received too much radiation, and probably is
an OSHA requirement.&nbsp; No OSHA safety rules regarding lead used by
stained glass, unless it is a larger facility, but it would be a responsible
thing for anyone who worked with lead to have a blood test at least once
a year or if they have Sx.&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm not sure if OHSA requires a
lead blood level test of anyone in the stained glass business.&nbsp; Better
off safe I think.

<P>Suzanne wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Before My 2 yr old was born I was a social worker
in a homeless shelter.
<BR>My department paid for me to be tested for TB twice a year since I
had a
<BR>greater risk of contracting it hanging out with homeless people.

<P>Do any of you get your blood lead levels checked on any kind of regular
<BR>basis?&nbsp; Seems like a pretty reasonable way to determine if your
safety
<BR>precautions are up to snuff, and it isnt expensive as I recall.
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR><A HREF="http://www.bungi.com/glass"></A>&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE>
&nbsp;</HTML>

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 07:01:43 1998
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From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: ctombro@InfoAve.Net, Glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: work hazards
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 08:57:05 EST
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In a message dated 11/14/98 8:09:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,
ctombro@InfoAve.Net writes:

> but it would be a responsible thing for
>  anyone who worked with lead to have a blood test at least once a year or if
>  they have Sx.   

WHAT??  Sax, Six, Sex, Sux, Sox, I don't get it.......I can not relate lead to
any of these five words.  (but I would be willing to get a mental competency
test along with the lead test)

Pat 

ps. Hope you all are having a great weekend
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 07:16:45 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
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Subject: Re:  Re: Chihuly
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 08:57:42 EST
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In a message dated 11/13/98 7:57:25 AM, joyce@mail.bright.net wrote:

>I thought the reason he threw all the stuff in the water, was for the water
>test he chastized one of his workers about in the beginning of the show.

You mean there was a *reason* for it? It wasn't just "performance art"?

Sorry, couldn't resist..........


Sparks
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 07:25:03 1998
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Subject: Kids licking the window? was Re: came
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 08:57:34 EST
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In a message dated 11/14/98 6:36:00 AM, seaspray@mail.island.net wrote:

>[...] But why on earth would
>you ever imagine a child would lick the panel?  That makes absolutely no
>sense whatsoever.  

Not to most of us, but those of us who aren't "tasters" often don't realize
how strong the urge to put something in the mouth can be for someone who *is*
a taster. The fact is that some kids are tasters by nature, and *everything*
goes straight into their mouths. Eventually they learn they're not supposed to
do that, but in extreme cases that doesn't stop them from wanting to. One of
my cousins had a really hard time with that, even well into his teens. The
first thing he always wanted to know about anything was: "What does it taste
like?"

Then there's the odd phenomenon called "pica" in which people of any age
develop tastes and/or cravings for some very strange things, often suddenly.
There's a theory that some types of pica (for example, malnourished pregnant
women eating dirt) might be partially accounted for by trace-nutrient
deficiencies, and vitamin/mineral supplements do lessen the cravings in some
people, but that doesn't completely explain the phenomenon. I had another
cousin who *loved* to eat cigarette butts; set an ash tray next to a candy
dish and he'd go for the ash tray every time. Fortunately he grew out of it,
but not until he was about 8 or 9. And in the mean time, *no* amount of
"whippin's" would keep him out of Grandpa's ash trays. Grandpa had to smoke in
the bathroom and flush the leftovers down the toilet.

Anyway, to make a long story short, I could easily see little kids (and even
not-so-little ones) chewing on or licking stained-glass things if they could
get to them............


Sparks
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 07:25:42 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!jbenner
From: jbenner@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: children licking glass
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 09:17:29 -0500
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I couldn't resist coming out of lurkdom to share this. I have no idea WHY
they do it, but my grandaughter used to lick the tv set and the stove
front (oven door). She's 2 1/2 yrs old now and doesn't do it as much, but
she did do it quite frequently. Almost any section of flat glass like
things. She still however needs to be watched constantly in the tub, for
drinking the water!!! Yuk! That's kids for you. they make no sense. WHen
my son was about 2 yrs old he laid a lit lightbulb on his cheek. Left it
there long enough for a trip to the hospital to bandage the burn. I
thought for sure I'd get nailed for child abuse or neglect but the nurse
assured me it was common. Said kids do that cause it feels nice and warm
at first, then as it gets hotter it burns them before they realize it's
too hot and take it away. Only takes a minute or so. Lest you think I'm a
terrible mom, you should know he's always been accident prone (kinda like
Tim Taylor on Home Improvement) and my daughter rarely had any sort of
accident.

Take care,  Judy
jbenner@juno.com

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 07:38:16 1998
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: work hazards
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 09:53:41 +0000
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> requirement.  No OSHA safety rules regarding lead used by stained glass,
> unless it is a larger facility, but it would be a responsible thing for
> anyone who worked with lead to have a blood test at least once a 
year 

Oops! Not true.

It took me about 30 seconds to find dozens of references to OSHA 
requirements on lead and stained glass. One of them reads:

"Occupational exposure to lead is dependent not only upon the
concentrations of lead in workplace air
but also upon the personal hygiene and
personal habits of the worker." 

"The lead hazard is particularly acute in
small companies/operations, often
employing no more than three or four
workers, engaged in radiator repair,
leaded or stained glass production,
laboratories, or ceramics."

That's from the American Conference of Governmental Industrial 
Hygienists


OSHA actually can be quite fierce with stained glass studios, large 
or small, that are found to have exposed their employees. Blood level 
tests are part of the overall OSHA standard that was set up to 
protect workers, whether they're rebuilding radiators or constructing 
stained glass windows. There's not really any exception to the rule 
that workers must do their jobs in healthy environments using safe 
practices and that employers are held responsible for their 
employees' health.

Note also that while the date on the following is five years old, 
well-known stained glass studios have much more recently than 1993 
been hit hard with OSHA inspections (and fines) that found 
less-than-happy circumstances being experienced by the craftspeople: 

Lead in the Construction Industry: 
High Risk Projects Targeted by OSHA in 1993

Highway and railroad bridge rehabilitation 
Commercial and institutional remodeling 
Residential remodeling 
Highway and railroad bridge repainting 
Reinsulation over existing mineral wool 
Commercial and industrial demolition 
Petroleum tank repainting 
Water tank repainting 
Transmission and commercial tower maintenance 
Outdoor industrial facility maintenance/renovation 
Housing lead abatement (public housing) 
Indoor industrial facility maintenance/renovation 
Stained glass window removal     <<<<<<<<<< !
Underground storage tank demolition 
Industrial vacuuming 
Housing lead abatement (private housing) * 
Lead joint work on cast iron soil pipes * 
Installation of radiation shielding * 
Elevator cable babbitting * 
Electrical cable splicing * 
Repair/removal of water lines * 
Installation of terne roofing * 

*Lead exposure levels on these projects are not expected to exceed the
action level of 30 ug/m3. For more details, see "Controlling Lead
Exposures in the Construction Industry" at the OSHA Technical Manual
website.

"Stained glass window removal" is certainly in OSHA's list since 
unzipping old windows throws off tons of (well, not tons ... but 
enough) lead into the otherwise breathable air.

Albert
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 07:55:19 1998
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From: "robert s. cutler" <rcutler@wittenberg.EDU>
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Subject: stained glass photo essay
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 10:07:13 -0500
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If you go to http://www.sewanee.edu and follow the Sewanee E-Review link to
"Color and Light", you can see the work of Brenda Welch Belfield in its
various stages of preparing a window for the All Saints Chapel on campus. 
Bob Cutler 

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 09:04:43 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Kids licking the window? was Re: came
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 11:11:26 +0000
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> There's a theory that some types of pica (for example, malnourished pregnant
> women eating dirt)

Hey, I did that when I was a kid in Southern California. Took a 
tablespoon outside, sat and scooped up that ol' dry-as-dust summer 
dirt and had a bite. Yum.

Albert
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 09:57:43 1998
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X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro
From: Carol Tombro <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>
To: CncptThnkr@aol.com
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Subject: Re: work hazards
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 11:46:16 -0500
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WHAT?  Sax, Six, Sex, Sux - Sorry guys, Sx - Medical abbreviation for symptoms.  I
worked too hard at the hospital yesterday.

Carol T

CncptThnkr@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 11/14/98 8:09:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> ctombro@InfoAve.Net writes:
>
> > but it would be a responsible thing for
> >  anyone who worked with lead to have a blood test at least once a year or if
> >  they have Sx.
>
> WHAT??  Sax, Six, Sex, Sux, Sox, I don't get it.......I can not relate lead to
> any of these five words.  (but I would be willing to get a mental competency
> test along with the lead test)
>
> Pat
>
> ps. Hope you all are having a great weekend



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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 10:51:57 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bio # 70 Jenna Meredith
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 11:55:38 -0600
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okay!! okay!!   You even came to harass me in PERSON and it took me this
long!!!   I suppose I'm quite overdue in sending this in, as I've been
lurking
on bungi with occasional comment for what seems like eons now!

Okie dokie... all about me....

I was born in 1976 in Akron, Ohio.  My parents decided soon after (my mother
an artist/clerical worker, my father a chemical engineer) that they simply
could not put up with living in the midwest any longer.  When I was 1 we
moved
to Reston, VA, just outside of Washington, DC.  When I was 2, my mother
started up a small stained glass business, Meredith Glass Studios, and did
custom work.  About 2 years later, the realization came about that my father
hated chemical engineering, and he joined the glass business to cover the
financial and business ends of everything.

There it began.... my induction to the world of stained glass.  With both of
my parents working full time for the business, we opened up a storefront in
Tysons, VA.  This was our first little store, and I have some vague
recollections of it (okay, mostly the parade that went by outside on
Christmas... but hey, I was only 4!!!).  From there business was doing
really
well (and time sort of blurs for me).

My first stained glass piece was a sandblasting of a picture I drew.  My
mother cut the stencil, and I sandblasted through the cabinet.  My
grandmother
still has this hanging in her window.  My second piece was a small bunny
rabbit suncatcher that my mom had visited my first grade class and taught us
all how to make with nuggets.

Jumping ahead many years, I spent a decent amount of time resenting stained
glass heavily (with both parents working full time at the business, I didn't
get much attention, so I was a little bitter).  At our peak, we had 4
locations spread between Maryland and Virginia.

In 1983 we moved to Maryland so that we could be about half way in between
the
different locations of the stores.   We were at that point known as both
Meredith Stained Glass (our retail division), Mom's Stained Glass (our
wholesale division), and Meredith Glass Studios (our custom studio
division).
My sister was born in 1984, and we moved again to another house in Maryland,
where my parents and sister have lived ever since.

I spent ALL of highschool hating stained glass and everything involved in
it.
At that point the recession had hit hard, and more than 3/4 of our wholesale
stained glass customers had gone out of business.  My parents were both
going
months at a time without taking paychecks, and things were really tight at
home.  Depression was rampant, second only to the desire not to declare
bankruptcy and leave our suppliers high and dry.

Long story short, the economy seems to have come around.  We decided that 4
locations was WAY too much work, and have now finally consolidated down to 1
location which we are very happy with.

I graduated highschool in 1993, and went to college at Ohio State for 1
year.
I realized at that point that I could never survive in the midwest either!
My fiancee and I moved back to MD, and started real world jobs.  Well, I
don't
like the real world.  Corporate life is not my cup of tea.  Dave is doing
really well though.   After about 2 years in the corporate world, I got fed
up
and left.  For meantime work, I helped out at the store, and you guessed it,
I
finally got addicted.

At that point I started teaching our beginning classes, something I have
REALLY enjoyed doing ever since.  I've probably taught around 40 or 50
beginning classes now, and I've been with the company for about 4 years.   I
mostly enjoy the business end, and have devoted myself to marketing and
such.
Two years after I started, I put together our first catalog in over 8 years,
and business skyrocketed.  We have come out with one catalog since, and yes
I
know, we are now due for another one!

I have also made the website my baby, having put hundreds of hours into it
(http://www.meredithglass.com).  What started out as a tiny site run through

art glass world has become a real project for me and a success for the
company.  After two years, the site now has our full catalog online with
online ordering capability.  It's something I'm really excited about, and I
have a lot of ideas for as well (now I just need the time!!!).

Okay.. where am I... my husband and I got married in September of 1997.  I
am
now 29 weeks pregnant with our first baby (hopefully first of five, everyone
thinks we're crazy!).  Baby (ultrasound says it is a boy, if so the name
will
be Owen Isaac) is due on Jan. 28.

That said, our life is quite busy right now.  I am currently making a window
for the baby's room, and trying to get me and our house ready for the
arrival.

Back to stained glass, the technique I currently enjoy the most is
traditional
mosaic with vitreous tiles.  I do my projects very high detail (the pieces
of
tile that normally come in 3/4" squares I divide into 9 pieces each before I
start).  I don't usually have patience for this kind of stuff, but I'm
really
enjoying it.  I have also done Tiffany lamps, panel lamps, boxes, torchwork,
some glassblowing, a little bit of dabbling in everything.  I don't really
consider myself an artist (next to my mother's work, it is quite difficult).
I am more of a technique person, I follow patterns as opposed to creating
them.

I think that about covers it.... and I'm sorry it was late!!!!!

Jenna Meredith-Sanders
Meredith Stained Glass
www.meredithglass.com

* * * * * * * * * * * * *
Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

Personal note: Meridith Stained Glass is a great place to browse, shop,
exchange ideas, etc. Good people and good prices. I highly recommend them.
Unfortunately, when I visited them I had flown there and the return flight
would have been too heavy to get off the ground if I had bought everything I
wanted.

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 11:27:59 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bio #71 Brian Sheppard (another Brit)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 12:06:42 -0600
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Ok Pat! I'll bare my soul - just once! It seems only fair that if I want to
be a lurker (sort of!) them I should at least let all of you know something
about myself.

I was born in London in 1946 to an American father and English mother. Dad
was in the USAF so we moved about a bit until I was seven when we seemed to
get stuck in London - I think Mother was fed up with the itinerant
existence. I think of myself as English now. Eventually I wound up as a
locksmith in Sussex for some years and then started my own business in
Hampshire - near Portsmouth. (These are both counties south of London and
adjacent to the English Channel)

I worked hard and built up the business to four retail shops and four radio
controlled service vans on the road. When I was forty-two I interviewed a
new book keeper and fell in love! (We used to meet in the stationery
cupboard!) Ann and I married in 1994.

I loved building up the business but once it was big enough and the fight
was over I got bored and sold it. It had taken quite enough from of me! I
didn't get rich but we live now in a fishing village in Cornwall and I
putter about at fifty two doing and learning stained glass amongst other
things! I always meant to write but so far have not been able to get going.
If anybody wants a pen pal who is into glass then I'm right here!
bshep@dircon.co.uk  It might help to get the novel underway!

I drifted into stained glass in a casual sort of way in 1987. There was an
advert for a SG materials catalogue in a magazine and I was on the look out
for something arty to do. My life had been enmeshed in the hardware of life
and I wanted to be creative! The company was two and a half hours away by
road (when I was in Hampshire!) so mail order was the only way I could make
a start. Things are a little better now in the UK but for a long time there
was a terrible dearth of places where you could buy supplies. This chap was
the closest to where I lived! Now I live even further away so even now I
have to buy everything mail order (FRUSTRATING!) There is a glass supplier
about thirty miles away but when I last looked I had more stock than he did!
There are many things that you can get in the States that are simply not
available here. The internet will solve that I'm sure IF I CAN EVER GET THE
CATALOGUES I'VE ORDERED!!!!!  I expect the are on their way by one-legged
drunken yak delivery service via Tokyo and Bombay! Be patient my boy!

Back to history! I sent off the money for the cat and waited. When it
arrived I was immediately lost in a fairy land! Fascinating special tools -
grinders - chemicals - books and - the ultimate wonder - the true enigma -
sumptuous - vivid - frozen colour - GLASS! (All this in quite a slim booklet
and in black & white as well!)

I ordered a video, some basic tools, solder & foil and three trial packs of
glass. I won't do that again! I've still got some of that glass and that
isn't because it's precious! The video had an enormous amount of background
noise but I could hear was  being said and learnt some basics.

That's the nearest I ever got to classes!

So just I started - persevered! Looking back from where I am now, I think
that the knowledge I have gained from my legion of mistakes is perhaps the
most precious thing I have! Not that I don't still mess up because I
certainly do, but the 'experience' I can now call on to extricate myself
from the real do-do has saved many an object!

Yes, of course, I still make some of the same mistakes again and again and
ag.....    Usually when I start feeling clever and push my luck!

My grandpappy always used to say 'The measure of a person is not how many
mistakes they make - it's how they recover from them!' He also used to say
that 'Anybody who never made a mistake never made anything!' He WAS a bit
pompous but he was my grandfather and he seemed to know a lot about
mistakes.

Apart from mistakes I now I make lamps, boxes, sun catchers all the usual
stuff plus windows when I can find a customer. I hardly ever use a pattern
other than my own. The object of doing glass for me was to be creative so I
do my best to do the whole job.That's me - I seldom take the easy route! It
brings me a lot of grief and extra work and a whole lot of new clangers
every time but most of all it brings the true bliss of satisfaction!

Or it did until I visited Robert Oddy's web site! He's a true Artist! (Do
you suppose he makes angels?) I am totally enthralled by his work! At first
it
made me think that anything I had ever done was little more than a child's
scribbling! I printed out his pictures and poured over them - trying to
fathom out how he did this or that and thoroughly depressed myself!

Ann sorted me out like she always does! She told me that Robert Oddy didn't
have an extra hand or eye or anything I don't have. 'Go to your workshop and
do it - it's just another step up. You didn't think you'd finished learning
did you?' Ouch but true! (Actually my workshop in is the cellar!)

Well, frankly, a lot more than one step! But she's right - Dickens used to
scribble so did Hemmingway when they were children. So I am still but a
child! Whether I shall ever rival Mr Oddy is very doubtful but at least I
have something to aspire to! I was one before and I got through that! Best
of all - dreaming isn't fattening!

{If this is boring do cut it down!}

The first lamp shade I made was for Ann's living room - just a simple panel
job - two alternating greens. I finished it off blacked the solder and went
around to her place (early days!) to hang it. No problems - it looked
lovely! Two weeks later, when I looked up at my wonderful achievement for a
private gloat, I as horrified to see that it was falling apart as I watched!
Pride goes before a fall (grandmother's saying!) I learnt so much from that
one incident! I haven't had to rebuild any more shades since that one!

Ann's eldest son bought her house when she moved in with me and still has
the shade. I asked if I could replace it as it really wasn't a very
attractive design but he won't let me - says it's part of the house! I was
quite touched by that!

Polperro, our village, is a very seasonal place and many of the shops are
only open in the summer. The one that sells my glass work has little
Christmas trade so ' T'is the season' doesn't really apply to me. Except for
family presents of course! I keep telling myself that I must have a push and
get my stuff into some other shops. The problem is that I'm not really sure
that I have it in me to hoist another business off the ground! The first one
took so much out of me and I really don't want any pressure. I think I will
content myself with the commissions and restorations that do seem to come
along and strive to Oddyfy my own work! I have promised myself that I won't
copy him though - I need my own style! If I make it from child to adolescent
I will be content!

Well I could drone on for pages but in fairness to you all I will suppers
the writer and end here. I might offer some pictures if I'm feeling brave.

Regards to all the bungarians and lets hear from some more lurkers!

Brian

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 11:49:41 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: work hazards (Sx) humor
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 12:23:16 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov14.62316.0>
Precedence: bulk

Rats!!! And I thought ........... nevermind, and here I was ready to go get
a blood test.

-----Original Message-----
From: Carol Tombro <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>
To: CncptThnkr@aol.com <CncptThnkr@aol.com>
Date: Saturday, November 14, 1998 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: work hazards


>WHAT?  Sax, Six, Sex, Sux - Sorry guys, Sx - Medical abbreviation for
symptoms.  I
>worked too hard at the hospital yesterday.
>
>Carol T
>
>CncptThnkr@aol.com wrote:
>
>> In a message dated 11/14/98 8:09:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>> ctombro@InfoAve.Net writes:
>>
>> > but it would be a responsible thing for
>> >  anyone who worked with lead to have a blood test at least once a year
or if
>> >  they have Sx.
>>
>> WHAT??  Sax, Six, Sex, Sux, Sox, I don't get it.......I can not relate
lead to
>> any of these five words.  (but I would be willing to get a mental
competency
>> test along with the lead test)
>>
>> Pat
>>
>> ps. Hope you all are having a great weekend
>
>
>
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 12:33:42 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: licking glass
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 14:11:21 -0600
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Carol, I would never have dreamed a child would lick, mouth, suck nearly
what I have observed my son doing.  I agree totally wierd!  His lead
levels were elevated because he was putting his mouth on the screen
door, best we can tell.  Some kids are wierd!  I know other moms with
very active boys that do strange things with their tongues too!

I just cant imagine someone leaving stained glass within reach of
children.

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 13:04:45 1998
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X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen
From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: work hazards...re:Albert
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 12:37:55 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <199811142037.MAA29958@ns2.vphos.net>
Precedence: bulk

Albert,
I truely sit back and listen to your comments.
I find the info that you give the group here, fabulously informative and you
do get to the heart of the matter.
I think it's an important thing for all to know the health issues concerning
their craft/art.
I just wanted to share *that* with you... and everyone...am not trying to
butter you up...grin!
Thanks,
Cindy
ps; you ate dirt as a kid???...ah heck, my mother ate worms from the garden,
that just turns my stomach like right now!!!! But I guess in that dirt, you
too also ate worms... of a smaller kind:):):)


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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 13:35:04 1998
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X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Bio's Brian (the Brit) and Jenna
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 20:41:47 +0000
Message-ID: <199811142049.UAA09980@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,

I have a very happy little camper here on 4 feet, snoring away on top 
of my toes. He just told me that he will endure the fish-fingers for 
another week and leave Patrick's (only) leg alone.... (as long as he 
gets to see the pics of Patrick in tu-tu!!!)
"Brian" is also the name of his all-time favourite male human. He was 
only 7 weeks old when he sat in (my) Brian's lap on his first car 
journey ever, ALL the way from south-east Kent to Hertfordshire. The 
car journey took us 4 hours and his little deep-blue eyes darted from 
me to Brian - constantly. He was ever so BRAVE!!  So the name of 
"Brian" has a particular sweet ring in Toby's ears.
 Brian in Cornwall, what an absolutely delightful Bio!! Thank you for 
sharing. I can just see you and Ann in the stationary cupboard!! 
Ahem!!! Hope to meet up with you here in UK before I leave!! Have you 
got together with Tony & Barbara Regan yet??

Jenna! Your Bio was also absolutely super!! I think I can already see 
that young stubborn set chin of yours HATING stained glass!! Again, 
hoping very much to meet up with you.
This might sound terribly stupid,  but it almost chokes me up 
thinking about that - now less than 10 months away -
 ever so many of you I might actually meet face to face after 
"knowing you"...quite a few years now....    What an exciting 
prospect!!

Oh... and by the way... in the snail mail (the other day) Toby and I 
received a parcel from USA. BEEF-treats for Toby...( who really would 
prefer Irish Mutton...) and a LARGE scale Atlas of USA disguised 
as a tu-tu......  I have been pouring over this Atlas for days (and 
will   - for months to come.....), trying to locate you all, trying 
to work out time differences, weather, storms,hurricanes, 
temperaments and  history. I am having a ball  - so keep the 
locations coming in, please...

I was reading about the safety and crime prevention guide-lines in 
this USA Atlas and was highly amused by some of the language 
differences. (Who posted this wonderful  American/English 
"translation" web-site????) One paragraph was advising about how to 
keep cash on one's person. A trendy convenient little accessory that 
has arrived even in England, is this textile/nylon, light-weight 
waist strap-on purse which we here call "bum-bag".  My eyes widened 
somewhat - reading the guide-lines in the Atlas - seeing it referred 
to as a "fanny-bag", which in "English" English is a slightly 
off-colour word.........
Another section that fascinated me, was the fact that an entire 
chapter was devoted to planning a vacation/ holiday/trip with 
grand-parents.The details, the thoughtfulness, the 
practicalities was really quite something. Here, anyone over 40 is 
"passed it" and not worth considering.............
At 50-something.... there just might be life in the old Viking dog 
yet (....or is it "bitch"...???), when she gets over to USA!!!!!!   
Yyyyieehaaaa!!! Here I come!!! Prime yer shirtsleeves folks!!!
I'm going to work yer socks off!!!

Please folks.... would you also respond to the e-mail from Carol 
Swann!
With a great big grin! Have a wonderful Sunday!!!!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 14:02:42 1998
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Newest glass web site
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 16:07:27 +0000
Message-ID: <199811142059.PAA05765@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
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The latest free web site developed for a member of the International
Guild of Glass Artists is the one for

Sandra Harris - Harris Glass Studio - Northboro, Massachusetts


Lovely work. Take a look at
http://www.igga.org/sharris/
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 14:25:13 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com, glass@intrastar.net
Subject: licking glass
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 16:33:40, -0500
Message-ID: <199811142133.QAA14096@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>Carol, I would never have dreamed a child would lick, mouth, suck 
nearly
what I have observed my son doing.  I agree totally wierd!  His lead
levels were elevated because he was putting his mouth on the screen
door, best we can tell.  Some kids are wierd!  I know other moms 
with
very active boys that do strange things with their tongues too!<<

And I thought my boys were the only ones that did strange things.

Here is an example that appeared in the news a few years ago: In the 
winter in Ohio, I think, a lady came upon a child with his tounge 
frozen to a steel railroad bridge. About all she could do was blow on 
it while trying to get help. Just picture that one!

I trust children not to put things in their mouths about as much as I 
would trust them to cross a freeway. 

Bob
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 15:40:57 1998
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From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: "D. B. Theunissen" <bethan@escape.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Lead dangers again
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 14:46:38 -0800
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References: <<3.0.16.19981114063729.22b79b9a@escape.ca>>
Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
Precedence: bulk

D. B. Theunissen wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> I guess my point is simply that many people do not know that there is lead
> in stained glass windows, and in fact I did not until I started doing them.
>  I work in a church building with stained glass windows everywhere, and
> children play around the sanctuary all the time.  IT would never even have
> occurred to me till now that we need to warn parents to tell their kids not
> to lick them.
> 
> I am glad about the person who refused to repair the 'dog treat' box, but
> if people do not tell you what it is used for, one might assume that they
> know the dangers involved.  It seems to me that stained glass people may
> assume that everyone is aware what is in the product, but most people I
> know see stained glass and think, how pretty!  They do not think, "O,
> beautiful thing that I should hang out of the reach of my kids and cats, etc.
> 
> Anyway, as someone who is a beginner at this craft, I am aware of the gulf
> between the knowledge of the 'before-glass Bethan' and the 'after-glass
> Bethan.   I would hate to think what I may have done with stained glass
> items in the past had I had any.  (I even wonder what I might do today,
> since I tend to be unconscious about when I lick my fingers etc.)
> 
> Enough now Bethan
> Chow
> Bethan
> ----
> 

I was appalled to read in an issue of SGN that a man made a little box
for a relatives sugar substitute packets. I think he put a plastic
insert in, but still....not something I'd want on my table.

As for the children thing...well before I got into glass we attended a
large church with many windows..my then baby wanted to stand up and look
at the windows but I was always very very careful to make sure she didnt
touch and I told her they could be poisonous if she touched them and
then put her fingers in her mouth....like most things it boils down to
parents being willing to supervise their kids.
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 17:11:26 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Stained glass guild of Ok
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 18:34:25 -0600
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I visited a *different local sg retailer the other day. (very nice
helpful people) and they gave me a flyer for a SG show and sale of the
Stained glass guild of Oklahoma.
The show/sale was within a mile of my house, so I popped over there this
afternoon to check 'em out.
Met some more very nice people and got info on the joining them. (also
told these two about bungi)  They have monthly meetings locally, the
meetings geared to expose all to new ideas, concepts and people. How to
topics, safety, color selection, design and techniques.  Very reasonable
membership fee also.

Sounds great to me.  Cool, eh?  I'm looking forward to attending a
meeting.

Tulsa Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 17:36:30 1998
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X-Path: hotmail.com!moondancer44
From: "Linda Johnson" <moondancer44@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com, glass@intrastar.net
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: licking glass
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 16:29:47 PST
Message-ID: <1998Nov15.02947.0>
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One of my sisters has the tip of her tongue missing from trying to lick 
some ice off of a pipe one winter.  She panicked and (you guessed it) 
pulled.  Not a good thing to do.  Linda

>From owner-glass@moon.intrastar.net Sat Nov 14 13:39:15 1998
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>From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
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>Subject: licking glass
>Sender: owner-glass@moon.intrastar.net
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>Reply-To: glass@intrastar.net
>
>>>Carol, I would never have dreamed a child would lick, mouth, suck 
>nearly
>what I have observed my son doing.  I agree totally wierd!  His lead
>levels were elevated because he was putting his mouth on the screen
>door, best we can tell.  Some kids are wierd!  I know other moms 
>with
>very active boys that do strange things with their tongues too!<<
>
>And I thought my boys were the only ones that did strange things.
>
>Here is an example that appeared in the news a few years ago: In the 
>winter in Ohio, I think, a lady came upon a child with his tounge 
>frozen to a steel railroad bridge. About all she could do was blow on 
>it while trying to get help. Just picture that one!
>
>I trust children not to put things in their mouths about as much as I 
>would trust them to cross a freeway. 
>
>Bob


______________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 17:42:34 1998
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X-Path: epix.net!"pmsl@epix.net"
From: Paula Smith-Lane <"pmsl@epix.net"@epix.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Lotus Flower pattern
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 19:34:26 -0500
Message-ID: <199811150038.TAA13837@lima.epix.net>
Organization: Prefered Customer
Precedence: bulk

I'm desperately seeking a lotus flower pattern. Anyone have one or know
where I can look for one? I couldn't find one in any of my catalogs or
on the internet. I would like a single flower. TIA.
Paula

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 18:55:22 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!JKSinrod
From: JKSinrod@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: wood frame needed
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 20:49:40 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov15.14940.0>
Precedence: bulk

I  need a frame to fit a 34 and 1/2" circulat SG panel.... anyone help?

 <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JKSinrod/sinrod.html">Sinrod Stained Glass
Studios</A> 
 <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JKSinrod/page4.html">My Coney Island
Nostalgia</A> 
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 20:01:34 1998
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Klmxklm@aol.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Tinning
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 19:19:01 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1998Nov14.11191.0>
References: <<1998Nov14.0123.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Mike:  Goooood question.  For ball chain I usually flux the chain the
hold solder on top of the ball and let it run down all around the ball and
affix itself to the edge keeping the hot iron on the ball.  This is
somewhat tedious and not an easy task...but doable.  PJ

On Fri, 13 Nov 1998 Klmxklm@aol.com wrote:

> Hi Everyone:
> How would you all proceed to tin a length of ladder or ball chain to make it
> nice and shiny without sticking many of the links together?  Is there an easy,
> efficient way?  Thanks.
> "Mike" Mikolajczak
> ----
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> 

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 20:32:28 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Stained glass guild of Ok
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 23:11:03 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov14.18113.0>
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Hi Suzanne-

Is your OK stained glass
affiliated with the International
Guild of Glass Artists?  If not,
you might want ot pass on =

info to them if you think it
might be beneficial to the
group.  Albert can fill us in
a bit more on how that's done.

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/glass/
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 21:32:48 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Stained glass guild of Ok
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 23:14:45 -0600
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References: <<1998Nov14.18113.0>>
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> Is your OK stained glass
> affiliated with the International
> Guild of Glass Artists?  If not,
> you might want ot pass on =

i dont think so.

> info to them if you think it
> might be beneficial to the
> group.

I will.  I dont think there is another meeting until January.

suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 14 21:54:04 1998
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From: JDavid1119@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: smalti or tessarae(sp?)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 00:05:46 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov15.5546.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hello everyone!  My name is Janis David and I live and work in the Baton
Rouge, LA area.  I have been a lurker for several months now, and have
benefited from it greatly.  As usual, my reason for coming out of lurkdom is
to ask a question.  I have been working in a glass studio for about 6 months
now, and the people that work there are pretty much against computers and the
internet.  They are, however, looking for a wholesale supplier of smalti and
tessarae.  I have come up with several suppliers, but none that are willing to
give a wholesale price.  I feel sure that at least one of you good people know
of such an outlet.  We would be most appreciative.  Also, I am interested in
purchasing a stained glass program and have the demos for glasseye and
American Bevel's Designer.  Does anyone have a preference they would like to
tell me about?  Thanks!

Jdavid1119@aol.com
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 15 00:48:18 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Hot Breath "The Hound from Hell"
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 02:18:28 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov14.201828.0>
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"The Hound from Hell" is breathing down my neck again. I am down to my last
2 bios. Heeeelllllllp.
I've noticed quite a few lurkers lately who haven't been properly introduced
to the group.
Don't make me get violent and crush grapes. My feet turn purple and it
clashes with the blue TuTu.

Seriously, some members wait patiently all week to read the bios I post on
Saturdays. Its a great way to meet the other artists (we are all artists,
just with varying degrees of skill).

Please send me your bios.

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sun Nov 15 01:03:11 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: smalti and tessarae
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 02:24:21 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov14.202421.0>
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OK, OK ..... I'm ignorant what the heck is smalti and tessarae.  It sounds
like a ballet (or is it just my frame of reference?). Is it a singing duet,
a Robert Oddy window, a dancing troupe, comedy team, or a Sx. Whatever it is
it sounds interesting(unless I just made myself the brunt of a joke ...
which wouldn't be the first time.

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sun Nov 15 03:19:28 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!mschatee
From: mschatee@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Morton Grid
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 05:15:24 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov15.101524.0>
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I learned an important lesson tonight I'd like to pass on.  When storing
your Morton System grid board, don't stand it up.  I had mine neatly
tucked away.  When I went to use it tonight it was warped and I didn't
realize it until I started scoring and screwed up a straight line (which
is pretty difficult using the Morton System).
Well I left my grinder on it and hopefully it'll straighten itself out
(which is more than I can say for the piece of glass I cut).

Ok I'm back to lurking now.

Caren

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From owner-glass Sun Nov 15 07:13:02 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: age and glass lessons
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 08:55:35 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov15.25535.0>
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At what age would you consider letting a kid take your beginning sg
class?  

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 15 08:11:22 1998
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From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: pmsl@epix.netepix.net
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Subject: Re: Lotus Flower pattern
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:31:41 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov15.153141.0>
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Hi Paula:  There is a single lotus blossom pattern in the Book of Fans for fan
lamps.  
Brenda

<< I'm desperately seeking a lotus flower pattern. Anyone have one or know
 where I can look for one? I couldn't find one in any of my catalogs or
 on the internet. I would like a single flower. TIA.
 Paula >>
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 15 09:10:16 1998
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Subject: Re: What is Smalti & Tesserae
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 08:25:40 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov15.02540.0>
Organization: Stained Glass Artists
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--------------B9141B136053CD5738E415B3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi All & Patrick,


Smalti is an opaque glass cut into regular shaped chunks. It's made by
firing glass with oxides, metals and powdered marble. It has a softly
reflective surface and is available in a large variety of colors. Gold
and Silver smalti are made by sandwiching gold and silver leaf in
transparent, colored glass.

Tesserae is the term given to the individual pieces, which when put
together, make a mosaic.

See you,

Pam *sm*

*********************************
The Stained Glass Artists
Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director:
Advertising & Marketing


Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

Join our live glass chat!
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.igga.org/


--------------B9141B136053CD5738E415B3
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
Hi All &amp; Patrick,
<BR>&nbsp;

<P><B>Smalti</B> is an opaque glass cut into regular shaped chunks. It's
made by firing glass with oxides, metals and powdered marble. It has a
softly reflective surface and is available in a large variety of colors.
Gold and Silver smalti are made by sandwiching gold and silver leaf in
transparent, colored glass.

<P><B>Tesserae</B> is the term given to the individual pieces, which when
put together, make a mosaic.
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>See you,

<P>Pam *sm*

<P>*********************************
<BR>The Stained Glass Artists
<BR>Pamela Burns-Tappan
<BR>Executive Director:
<BR>Advertising &amp; Marketing
<BR>&nbsp;

<P>Proud Member Of:

<P>The Stained Glass Artists
<BR><A HREF="http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html">http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html</A>

<P>Join our live glass chat!
<BR><A HREF="http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html">http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html</A>
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>The International Guild of Glass Artists
<BR><A HREF="http://www.igga.org/">http://www.igga.org/</A>
<BR>&nbsp;</HTML>

--------------B9141B136053CD5738E415B3--

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From owner-glass Sun Nov 15 11:12:11 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: smalti or tessarae(sp?)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:10:47 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov15.81047.0>
Precedence: bulk

There is a line of glass tessarae tiles by an Italian company
called Bisazza, which is carried by at least two stained glass
wholesale companies here on the East Coast...The Glass
Emporium and also Rainbow Art Glass/Studio J.  I believe
you can get smalti from Benheims in New York.

As to the computer-assisted stained glass design programs,
I purchased The Glass Eye from Dragonfly Software, and
have used it on almost all of my works ever since.  Great stuff!

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 15 11:30:33 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: age and glass lessons
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:10:41 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov15.81041.0>
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Message text written by Suzanne
>At what age would you consider letting a kid take your beginning sg
class? <

Must be 13 years old or older.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 15 11:43:26 1998
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From: "Scott ." <scottjf55@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject:  Re: age and glass lessons
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:22:40 PST
Message-ID: <1998Nov15.192240.0>
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  I had to beg the instructor to let me in at age eleven.  I think that 
this is a little young but if the student is careful and attentive to 
the task than they should be let into the class.

Scott *sm*

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From owner-glass Sun Nov 15 13:16:14 1998
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Paula Smith-Lane <"pmsl@epix.net"@epix.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Lotus Flower pattern
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:50:34 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1998Nov15.45034.0>
References: <<199811150038.TAA13837@lima.epix.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Paula:

In my search for a rottweiler I came across a lotus flower pattern in
Carolyn Kyle's Glass Patterns in Color II, Page 15, Pattern No. 144.  The
pattern is also listed in Glass Elegance II, Page 26.  Peggy

On Sat, 14 Nov 1998, Paula Smith-Lane wrote:

> I'm desperately seeking a lotus flower pattern. Anyone have one or know
> where I can look for one? I couldn't find one in any of my catalogs or
> on the internet. I would like a single flower. TIA.
> Paula
> 
> ----
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> 

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From owner-glass Sun Nov 15 14:19:39 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon
From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Lamp Shade Design
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 16:43:24 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov15.214324.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi to everyone!

After getting the collars I needed (from Howard) to replace the shades on my
bridge lamps, I'm now attempting to design shades for them.  I should preface
this by saying this will be my first original design.

Being inspired by the FLW special last week, I want a prairie look and came up
with an arrowhead design that looks pretty good except that I will have some
pretty small narrow pieces and don't know if that will be a problem or not.

The shade will be small (torchier size) with a 2 inch fitter ring at the top,
six panels each of which are 7 inches long, one inch at the top and 4-1/2
inches at the bottom.  There will be pieces in each one that are only 1/4 inch
wide by 2 to 2-1/2 inches long.  I could make them 1/2 inch wide but I kind of
like the look of the narrow strips.  Am I making a big problem for myself if I
make them so narrow?  Once foiled, will the individual strips kind of
disappear?  To get a decent design out of such a small panel is a real
challenge!

Any comments?

Brenda
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 15 14:48:49 1998
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: age and glass lessons
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 20:05:58 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Nov15.20558.0>
References: <<1998Nov15.25535.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

In message <1998Nov15.25535.0@?>, Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com> writes
>At what age would you consider letting a kid take your beginning sg
>class?  
>
About 16 Suzanne.

In fact I have a secondary school group of 11 16 and 17 year olds every
Monday afternoon who are jointly making a fanlight for their school and
a small panel each.

Steve

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 15 15:52:06 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: BMarhon@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Lamp Shade Design
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 18:28:22 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov15.132822.0>
References: <<1998Nov15.214324.0>>
Precedence: bulk

BMarhon@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hi to everyone!
> 
> After getting the collars I needed (from Howard) to replace the shades on my
> bridge lamps, I'm now attempting to design shades for them.  I should preface
> this by saying this will be my first original design.
> 
> Being inspired by the FLW special last week, I want a prairie look and came up
> with an arrowhead design that looks pretty good except that I will have some
> pretty small narrow pieces and don't know if that will be a problem or not.
> 
> The shade will be small (torchier size) with a 2 inch fitter ring at the top,
> six panels each of which are 7 inches long, one inch at the top and 4-1/2
> inches at the bottom.  There will be pieces in each one that are only 1/4 inch
> wide by 2 to 2-1/2 inches long.  I could make them 1/2 inch wide but I kind of
> like the look of the narrow strips.  Am I making a big problem for myself if I
> make them so narrow?  Once foiled, will the individual strips kind of
> disappear?  To get a decent design out of such a small panel is a real
> challenge!
> 
> Any comments?
> 
> Brenda
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


the small strips should'nt be a problem, as long as you use a narrow
foil. i personally used 3/16" for just about everything. except for
boxes which i then use 7/32" (to solder a chain on better). or 5/32" for
really small glass - about the size of a grain of rice.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 15 16:12:59 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: What is Smalti & Tesserae
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 18:36:12 -0500
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And, to add to Pam's info....
The glass tiles are made by
Murano in Italy.  Somewhere,
we have a couple of sources
out east that distribute.... I
would check in New York first.
Then, try to get your hands on
some old mosaic books at the
library which often list references.

Or, since you work in a glass shop,
you could do what we do and use
up your scrap glass making your
own mosaic tiles.  Do your own
guilding on the backs.  Just a =

thought.... a great way for an
apprentice to learn glass cutting!
;-)

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Sun Nov 15 16:26:55 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Hot Breath "The Hound from Hell"
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 18:36:04 -0500
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Dear Patrick-

Just a quick note to say "thanks"
once again for being the biographer
for bungi.  Not to mention risking
life, limb, and reputation for our
enjoyment.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 15 16:32:04 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Be back soon
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 18:35:56 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov15.133556.0>
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Hi everyone-

I'm firing up on another =

computer starting in a =

few hours, so I'll be out-
of-touch for a while.  That
could mean anywhere from
one hour to forever with
my computer skills!  When
I come back, I hope to be
able to type across the =

page... wow!

Best regards,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 15 16:47:56 1998
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: age and glass lessons
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 18:04:05 -0500
Message-ID: <199811152307.SAA00407@uz.ComCAT.COM>
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>In message <1998Nov15.25535.0@?>, Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com> writes
>>At what age would you consider letting a kid take your beginning sg
>>class?  

On the other side of the coin, what's the oldest student you've taught?

I've had two 70-year-olds, both enjoyed it tremendously - in fact one 
sent his daughter and granddaughter for lessons later.

And, I'm teaching an 11-year-old right now. 

Suzy-Suzanne
>
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 15 16:50:12 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: mschatee@juno.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Morton Grid
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 18:18:34 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov15.131834.0>
References: <<1998Nov15.101524.0>>
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mschatee@juno.com wrote:
> 
> I learned an important lesson tonight I'd like to pass on.  When storing
> your Morton System grid board, don't stand it up.  I had mine neatly
> tucked away.  When I went to use it tonight it was warped and I didn't
> realize it until I started scoring and screwed up a straight line (which
> is pretty difficult using the Morton System).
> Well I left my grinder on it and hopefully it'll straighten itself out
> (which is more than I can say for the piece of glass I cut).
> 
> Ok I'm back to lurking now.
> 
> Caren
> 
> ___________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


what you might be able to do is to flip it over onto it's front, (so
it's bottom is facing up). then very carefully use a heat gun to relax
the plastic. don't use too much or the plastic will burn. just enough to
let it sag a little and you can re-adjust it. this is what some bodymen
use to fix bent plastic bumper covers.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 15 17:17:37 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: age and glass lessons
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 18:24:11 -0500
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Suzanne wrote:
> 
> At what age would you consider letting a kid take your beginning sg
> class?
> 
> Suzanne
> --
> ~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
> ----
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i had my first class when i was 9. but that was the last year that they
had it at that level. mainly it was due to accidents, but also 9 year
olds don't have enough upper body strength and height to push down on
the cutter. 

they finally settled at 6th grade (however old that is). i guess when
they become a teen, that should be pretty safe.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
----
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 15 19:05:18 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <BMarhon@aol.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Lamp Shade Design/suggestion
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 17:52:46 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov15.95246.0>
Precedence: bulk

Make the lower diameter (not the fitter) bigger! try seeing what 8" diameter
looks like.

also 6 panels, will make the seams of each panel look VERY large (60 degree
angles) compared to the flat parts of the shade.


DO you know how do to the math? Remember to allow for the thickness of the
glass so it GOES INTO THE FITTER!!!!!!
Cut some window glass to experiment with, Use a jig if you have one, for all
the labor it would be good to have a blank (window glass shade) to
experiment with.

Also thinner foil (3/16) may work where there are very narrow strips,
assuming the glass you are using is NO thicker than 1/8.
Enjoy< H

weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard   best lamps on the "net"
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Sun Nov 15 19:32:28 1998
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: hurricanes and crasy quilt patterns
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 19:58:08 -0600
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981115195808.00823e70@sol.racsa.co.cr>
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Dear friends,
	Thanks for you expressions of sympathy for the hurricane... luckily we are
about back to normal now.... (with worse roads than before).  MUCH better
than Nicaragua and Honduras.  Yes our water went out for a few days, but
since we have our own line, it just depended on us getting out and fixing
it, and we preferred to wait till the rain quit, and the landslide which
had taken the pipe, had dried and stabilized a bit!
	As per my "crazy quilt" pattern?  Several people expressed interest... my
improved method (at the moment) is this.  I get a sheet of thick window
glass the size of the window I wish to make.  I lay this on my light table
and start sorting through the scrap box, figuring out what shapes and
colors I am going to use as my main elements.  When I have these decided, I
can pick up the sheet of glass and move it closer to my cutting table, and
then  I do any cutting they need, and tape them to the sheet of glass with
little rolls of scotch tape.   ( I also make a squared frame of wood
strips, that the glass can set down into... to keep every thing squared up
while it is on the cutting table). Then back to the light table, and search
for the fill in pieces.... then back to the cutting table etc... till
everything is filled in and fitted.  The first part needs little cutting
usually, and as you end up with fewer and fewer holes you have to cut more
and more exactly.....If your light table is close to your cutting table,
you wouldn=B4t have to move... thats another story... I am getting some more
furniture soon!
	Then, with everything  pieced, I number a  piece, pull it out, and draw
aroun the empty hole with a feltip marker, number another, etc.... when you
are done, the sheet of glass has the pattern on it, which you can trace
off, to have a paper pattern to replace your glass on after you wrap them,
so that you can solder them... I am sure if  I didn=B4t do that, I would
never get them all back in place.  My windows were about 2 ft square, and
had 80-100 pieces each.  They both turned out very differently....  I also
love to doodle with pens or markers.. so this was like doodling in glass.
However it is MUCH harder (for me) than just cutting by a pattern!  I also
decided that 3 windows in a row like this would  be too busy, so made a
pattern for the middle one.... pulling in some features of each side, to
unite them... hope it works...I hope to have some pictures taken with a
digital camera which I can share with anyone who wants, soon.  Love Meg
RICHARD AND MEG LAVAL
Apdo 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA

PHONE 645-5052 or 645-5419
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 16 00:07:37 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: agacic@hotmail.com, glass@bungi.com
Subject: Lilac pattern
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 02:20:06, -0500
Message-ID: <199811160720.CAA11466@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>Its funny how once people find out you do stain glass,  you start 
getting requests.  I just got a very important one from my MOM!  She 

would like another one to compliment one of my early (just learning) 

works that I gave her.  She was a safe bet for one of my first ones.  
I 
know she loves lilacs but I dont recall seeing any in any of my 
pattern 
books.

Any leads would be appreciated.

Thanks
Alex Gacic<<

Alex,
As I am sure you well know, lilac flowers are very small and come in 
bunches that form distinctive shapes. The entire plants also have 
distinctive shapes with some flower bunches hanging down, etc.. The 
only way I know to do them is to draw an excellent cartoon and use a 
lilac colored glass that is cut to the typical shape of the bunches 
of flowers. Bullseye makes a "dusty lilac" opal #0303 that would be a 
good choice. You might also check out Youghioghany #YO-1663SP stipple.
 It has blue, purple and ice white.

The library should have enough garden books so that you could find 
one that has a picture of a lilac bush. Or maybe your mother has a 
picture or the real thing.

Bob
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 16 03:34:38 1998
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Gem, Mineral and Glass
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 06:14:08 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov16.1148.0>
Precedence: bulk

I went to a gem and mineral show this weekend, primarily to pick up some 
agate slices for a lampshade class that I am going to take this month.

What I found interesting was that several of the venders were incorporating 
glass in their jewelry, mostly dichroic glass. And the effect was 
beautiful. Fused dichroic pendants and earrings, wirewrapped in gold and 
silver. Another vender was making small wire trees with gem "leaves" and 
they were mounted an a blob of dichroic glass. It was nice to see two of my 
passions (glass and gems) in one place.

Linda Cambpell
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 16 04:00:58 1998
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: glass bungi com <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Bio # 70 Jenna Meredith
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 05:52:41 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov16.05241.0>
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My vote goes to Jenna for "getting into" stained glass at the youngest age. Thanks Jenna for sharing.

Linda
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 16 04:07:47 1998
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Dismal Swamp (non-glass)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 06:06:38 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov16.1638.0>
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This is totally non-related to glass but our local newspaper just did a 
three part story on the Dismal Swamp and it can be found at:

 http://www.pilotonline.com/special/dismal/index.html

My property is just below the Capital "D" in Drummond on the little map. 
Excuse the intrusion but some of you have been interested in my rural home 
and activities. The bears are great, and so far the bees are safe.

Linda Cambpell
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 16 05:03:29 1998
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: larsonrw@pdq.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: ?'s beading edges/chain/beveled glass windows
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 07:37:04 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov16.12374.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Wendy et al,
You spoke of fishing line eventually breaking, which is true.  I have an
alternative that I did not notice anyone suggesting.  It is: ACCULON - Nylon
Coated Miniature Wire Cable from Cable Strand Corp. It comes in a very thin
strand (I use .018 Dia., 300').  Rings & Things carries it.  Offhand I do not
have their catalog, however, if you would like, I could try to locate it and
send info for ordering.  Sorry I don't know the cost......it was a present
(thanks again Suzy!).  Though not quite as invisible as the fishing line, it
is perfect for instances you make small items that would be
inappropriate/overwhelmed with a chain.  Hope this helps.
Lenore
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 16 06:03:09 1998
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: ?'s beading edges/chain/beveled glass windows
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 08:37:28 -0500
Message-ID: <199811161341.IAA15321@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

Lenore wrote:
>You spoke of fishing line eventually breaking, which is true.  I have an
>alternative that I did not notice anyone suggesting.  It is: ACCULON - Nylon
>Coated Miniature Wire Cable from Cable Strand Corp. It comes in a very thin
>strand (I use .018 Dia., 300').  Rings & Things carries it.  Offhand I do not
>have their catalog, however, if you would like, I could try to locate it and
>send info for ordering.  Sorry I don't know the cost......it was a present
>(thanks again Suzy!).  Though not quite as invisible as the fishing line, it
>is perfect for instances you make small items that would be
>inappropriate/overwhelmed with a chain.  Hope this helps.

Rings & Things, 214 N. Wall St., Suite 990
P.O. Box 450
Spokane, WA 99210-0450
Phone (509) 624-8565

They have a large catalog full of little "things" including Austrian 
Crystals, beads, etc., that you can incorporate into glass work. The 
Acculon is what I call tigertail and as Lenore says, great for hanging 
small items. They're very pleasant to work with over the phone...the 
tigertail costs about $10 for 300 feet. You can also buy tigertail at 
your local hobby shop, but it costs an arm & a leg there.
Suzy-Suzanne
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 16 07:06:45 1998
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'Yegnim@aol.com'" <Yegnim@aol.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: ?'s beading edges/chain/beveled glass windows
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 08:52:18 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov16.35218.0>
Precedence: bulk

Also called "tiger tail" it can be purchased in several gauges from most 
craft stores that carry beading supplies. A crimp bead can be used to 
secure it.

Linda

 It is: ACCULON - Nylon
Coated Miniature Wire Cable from Cable Strand Corp. It comes in a very thin
strand (I use .018 Dia., 300').  
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 16 07:35:20 1998
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From: Romajoco@aol.com
To: agacic@HOTMAIL.COM, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Lilac pattern
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:08:34 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov16.14834.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 11/16/98 2:08:20 AM Central Standard Time,
YWAH36A@prodigy.com writes:

<< I 
 know she loves lilacs but I dont recall seeing any in any of my 
 pattern 
 books.
 
 Any leads would be appreciated.
 
 Thanks
 Alex Gacic<< >>


Alex, in the book "State Flowers in Stained Glass" by Carolyn Kyle you will
find a picture of a lilac.

Margie
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 16 07:42:22 1998
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From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Hubby has the fusing BUG?
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 06:36:49 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <199811161436.GAA07957@ns2.vphos.net>
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>Hi all,
>I finially got back to some fusing yesterday, and hubby decided he was
gonna do *something*. I had been doing some work in soapstone 2 weeks ago,
and had some block size scraps...soooo he took a block of soapstone 1" x 3"
and carved out 2 shapes by sandblasting...one a small circle and the other
an abstract.
>
>I had to go in the house for awhile and when I returned he was smashing up
some glass into frit size pieces and filling in the holes. Hmmm, I said
"where did you get this glass??" Oh it was some scraps he replied!
>
>We weren't too sure whether or not to spray with lead, but decided to.
Reason for the uncertainy was spraying would *overspray* on the soapstone.
Well at first it blew his frit on the table!!!
> 
>We fused the stuff in kiln to just above 1500'F  and the piece has turned
out....(I was not sure of therma shock while using the stone.)
>The glass has shrunk and could use some more OR he could sand the soap
stone to a polish and it would reduce the height...think that's what he'll
be doing:)
>
>This piece is really quite interesting....hmmm, the possiblites are there
and he's quite proud of himself!!! In the pitch dark this morning at 5:00am,
he went to retrive the piece before he went to work!!!! 
>I do believe he has the fusing bug!!! And if he continues production should
I get him to get his own kiln???<VBG>
>Cindy:)
>

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From owner-glass Mon Nov 16 07:52:09 1998
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X-Path: tripos.com!rammann
From: Rachel Ammann <rammann@tripos.com>
To: Yegnim@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: ?'s beading edges/chain/beveled glass windows
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 08:13:36 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov16.21336.0>
References: <<1998Nov16.12374.0>>
Organization: Tripos, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

Acculon is available form any jewely supply house - it is often called tiger
tail.
It is available in many gauges, be sure to get one of the stronger ones (do not
get 0.010 diam). You can buy it in 50 ft spools.  You "tie it off" with crimps -
little metal beads that are smashed down on the wire to prevent anything falling
off. Be careful, tiger tail is plastic coated, so do not get a soldering iron
near it.

Yegnim@aol.com wrote:

> Hi Wendy et al,
> You spoke of fishing line eventually breaking, which is true.  I have an
> alternative that I did not notice anyone suggesting.  It is: ACCULON - Nylon
> Coated Miniature Wire Cable from Cable Strand Corp. It comes in a very thin
> strand (I use .018 Dia., 300').  Rings & Things carries it.  Offhand I do not
> have their catalog, however, if you would like, I could try to locate it and
> send info for ordering.  Sorry I don't know the cost......it was a present
> (thanks again Suzy!).  Though not quite as invisible as the fishing line, it
> is perfect for instances you make small items that would be
> inappropriate/overwhelmed with a chain.  Hope this helps.
> Lenore
> ----
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 16 08:00:09 1998
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From: Mary Ruger <x1ruger@exnet.iastate.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: geranium pattern
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:16:10 -0600
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Precedence: bulk

I am in need to a geranium pattern.  I have a customer that wants a door
panel that has a geraniums on it?  My husband talked to her or else I
wouldn't be in this boat or looking for something I don't have!  Thanks in
advance.

Mary
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 16 09:11:23 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Mary Ruger <x1ruger@exnet.iastate.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: geranium pattern
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:27:28 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov16.42728.0>
References: <<3.0.32.19981116091608.0069e5d0@exnet.iastate.edu>>
Precedence: bulk

Mary, there is a one stemmed geranium in "Tiffany Garden II" that would
be pretty easy to add too to be more realistic of a full geranium plant.

suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 16 09:36:41 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Mary Ruger <x1ruger@exnet.iastate.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: geranium pattern
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:37:06 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov16.4376.0>
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Mary. 

I can scan it for you if you want, so you can see it. Let me know.

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 16 10:17:44 1998
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Mary Ruger <x1ruger@exnet.iastate.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: geranium pattern
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:29:52 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1998Nov16.12952.0>
References: <<3.0.32.19981116091608.0069e5d0@exnet.iastate.edu>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Mary:  Judy Miller's Gift II has a geranium pattern in it.  PJ

On Mon, 16 Nov 1998, Mary Ruger wrote:

> I am in need to a geranium pattern.  I have a customer that wants a door
> panel that has a geraniums on it?  My husband talked to her or else I
> wouldn't be in this boat or looking for something I don't have!  Thanks in
> advance.
> 
> Mary
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 

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From owner-glass Mon Nov 16 10:41:44 1998
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From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, cpesonen@bcinternet.net, glass@intrastar.net
Subject: Hubby has the fusing BUG?
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:02:19, -0500
Message-ID: <199811161802.NAA12010@mime3.prodigy.com>
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>>>I do believe he has the fusing bug!!! And if he continues 
production should
I get him to get his own kiln???<VBG>
>Cindy:)<<

Nah, a catalog or two will do. Bob
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 16 11:41:26 1998
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: Hubby has the fusing BUG?
Date: Mon Nov 16 11:03:48 1998
Message-ID: <1998Nov17.83948.0>
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		>>>I do believe he has the fusing bug!!! And if he
continues 
		production should
		I get him to get his own kiln???<VBG>
		>Cindy:)<<
		Cindy 

The question is not "Does he need his own kiln?' it is "Do you need a
second kiln?"

Vic

		
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 16 12:15:54 1998
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Hubby has the fusing BUG?
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:23:29 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov16.92329.0>
Precedence: bulk

Yes, Cindy, you should.  It's a better hobby and costs far less than strange
women.

Arnold

-----Original Message-----
From: Cindy Pesonen <cpesonen@bcinternet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Monday, November 16, 1998 11:12 AM
Subject: Hubby has the fusing BUG?


>
>>Hi all,
>>I finially got back to some fusing yesterday, and hubby decided he was
>gonna do *something*. I had been doing some work in soapstone 2 weeks ago,
>and had some block size scraps...soooo he took a block of soapstone 1" x 3"
>and carved out 2 shapes by sandblasting...one a small circle and the other
>an abstract.
>>
>>I had to go in the house for awhile and when I returned he was smashing up
>some glass into frit size pieces and filling in the holes. Hmmm, I said
>"where did you get this glass??" Oh it was some scraps he replied!
>>
>>We weren't too sure whether or not to spray with lead, but decided to.
>Reason for the uncertainy was spraying would *overspray* on the soapstone.
>Well at first it blew his frit on the table!!!
>>
>>We fused the stuff in kiln to just above 1500'F  and the piece has turned
>out....(I was not sure of therma shock while using the stone.)
>>The glass has shrunk and could use some more OR he could sand the soap
>stone to a polish and it would reduce the height...think that's what he'll
>be doing:)
>>
>>This piece is really quite interesting....hmmm, the possiblites are there
>and he's quite proud of himself!!! In the pitch dark this morning at
5:00am,
>he went to retrive the piece before he went to work!!!!
>>I do believe he has the fusing bug!!! And if he continues production
should
>I get him to get his own kiln???<VBG>
>>Cindy:)
>>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Mon Nov 16 16:48:15 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <eldondo1@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: beveling edge of panel
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:57:39 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov16.65739.0>
Precedence: bulk

I never found the justification to SPEND the EXTRA time to bevel the edge of
the panel.

8 or 10 panel shades produced a small enough angle to not look real wide.

Any problems with foiling the edge evenly?

Did you need wider foil to cover the beveled edge?

More than one way to remove the pelt form the feline!

enjoy, H



weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard   best lamps on the "net"
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Mon Nov 16 17:15:10 1998
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	for rglass-42; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:38:45 -0800 (PST)
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X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon
From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: weaver51@teleport.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Lamp Shade Design/suggestion
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 19:33:13 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov17.03313.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Howard -

I'll admit it - I don't know how to do the math.  Can you explain or is it too
complicated?

I chose the dimensions based on a shade I've already made that I know fits the
fitter and when I tried it on the lamp, it wasn't too heavy.  It is a bit on
the small side for the base, but I'm afraid to go bigger (more panels) because
it won't fit the fitter cap.  The current paper shades are 10" diameter and 8"
at the top (more cylindrical), but anything that big would probably make the
lamp "tippy" even if I put more weight in the base.

I know what you mean about the size of the seam compared to the flat parts.  I
planned to do them in copper patina so maybe it won't look too bad.

If you can explain how I could make this an 8 panel without too much trouble,
I'd appreciate it.  The first (and last) time I modified a lampshade pattern
to make it bigger by adding two panels, it became a real mess.

Brenda
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 17 04:52:31 1998
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X-Path: epix.net!"pmsl@epix.net"
From: Paula Smith-Lane <"pmsl@epix.net"@epix.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------94B47BC8F25AE3FD6AAD9F6C"
Subject: lotus pattern
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 07:10:55 -0500
Message-ID: <199811171214.HAA05410@lima.epix.net>
Organization: Prefered Customer
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--------------94B47BC8F25AE3FD6AAD9F6C
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi everyone,
 Sorry I was delayed in responding to you all, but my server was down.
Thanks to all who helped with the lotus flower pattern. Still haven't
found exactly what I'm looking for. I've decided to "create" my own with
the Glass Eye. Wish me luck!
Paula


--------------94B47BC8F25AE3FD6AAD9F6C
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
Hi everyone,
<BR>&nbsp;Sorry I was delayed in responding to you all, but my server was
down. Thanks to all who helped with the lotus flower pattern. Still haven't
found exactly what I'm looking for. I've decided to "create" my own with
<U>the Glass Eye</U>. Wish me luck!
<BR>Paula
<BR>&nbsp;</HTML>

--------------94B47BC8F25AE3FD6AAD9F6C--

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 17 06:02:28 1998
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 04:49:20 -0800 (PST)
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'BMarhon@aol.com'" <BMarhon@aol.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Lamp Shade Design/suggestion
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 07:49:42 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov17.24942.0>
Precedence: bulk

Yes Howard,

I want to know too. I can do the math. I just don't trust myself until I've 
done the math AND made a model. See, we need your internet Lamp Making 
Class. Is that still going to happen? Please, please, please. And what is a 
fitter? Is that the same thing as a vase cap?

Your student
Linda Cambpell




Brenda said:

 Hi Howard -

I'll admit it - I don't know how to do the math.  Can you explain or is it 
too
complicated?

I chose the dimensions based on a shade I've already made that I know fits 
the
fitter and when I tried it on the lamp, it wasn't too heavy.  It is a bit 
on
the small side for the base, but I'm afraid to go bigger (more panels) 
because
it won't fit the fitter cap.  The current paper shades are 10" diameter and 
8"
at the top (more cylindrical), but anything that big would probably make 
the
lamp "tippy" even if I put more weight in the base.

I know what you mean about the size of the seam compared to the flat parts. 
 I
planned to do them in copper patina so maybe it won't look too bad.

If you can explain how I could make this an 8 panel without too much 
trouble,
I'd appreciate it.  The first (and last) time I modified a lampshade 
pattern
to make it bigger by adding two panels, it became a real mess.

Brenda

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 17 06:21:18 1998
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X-Path: wcnet.net!fibers
From: fibers@wcnet.net (fibers)
To: "glass@ bungie.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re-putting panels
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 07:27:19 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov17.12719.0>
Precedence: bulk

I have been asked by a friend to re-putty an entry door and sidelights
made of beveled glass. I don't have any idea how to price this project.
How about some suggestions?
Nelda

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 17 06:53:27 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Lamp Shade Design/suggestion
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 08:46:26 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov17.24626.0>
References: <<1998Nov17.24942.0>>
Precedence: bulk

> Yes Howard,
> 
> I want to know too. I can do the math. I just don't trust myself until I've 
> done the math AND made a model. See, we need your internet Lamp Making 
> Class. Is that still going to happen? Please, please, please. And what is a 
> fitter? Is that the same thing as a vase cap?
> 
> Your student
> Linda Cambpell
> 
> 
> 
I'm interested in your internet lamp class too, Howard.

Suzanne
Another student, who needs someone *else to do the math for her!  I'll
counsel the criminal in your family!
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 17 09:24:56 1998
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From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
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Subject: Re: Lamp Shade Design/suggestion
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:09:54 -0500
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I third that motion, haven't even done a lamp yet.
Karen


>>
>I'm interested in your internet lamp class too, Howard.
>
>Suzanne
>Another student, who needs someone *else to do the math for her!  I'll
>counsel the criminal in your family!
>--
>~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 17 10:54:40 1998
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Craft Fairs
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:28:52 EST
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Well we did our first craft fair on Sunday.  I was somewhat disappointed.
However I think I learned a lot.  One of the booths did have a whole 
barrel of crows on a stick!

My two major learnings were:

1.  You have to have a lot of diversity of product, both in price and
selection.

2.  Generally people can't distinguish value in stained glass.  Simple
patterns
	priced aggressively seem to do better than more complex patterns,
particularly
	at the lower end. 

Any more thoughts or advice?
(Other than staying away from the crows)


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From owner-glass Tue Nov 17 11:23:43 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "glass@bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: tentative classes
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:00:44 -0800
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To do this right (and maintain my reputation) I need a lot of information
from all tentative victims.

Experience (yours)
Panel or dome lamp (panel lamp in machine smooth both sides glass)
Odyssey or Worden (my preference Odyssey, but not mandatory)
Equipment ( Morton jig, or???) assume you have the basics
depth of pocket (for QUALITY glass) MAJOR waste (IMHO) to do a "tiffany" in
armstrong, spectrum, and
                           other machine type glass.
                           lamp forms and other stuff
time frame ( may take many moths) and your frustration and tenacity levels.

Just a few thing I need as I cannot observe you in a "hands on class"

later, H





weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard   best lamps on the "net"
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Tue Nov 17 11:57:08 1998
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From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "glass@bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: repeat of math and JIG
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:44:44 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov17.24444.0>
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The following is a repeat of the my post on how to figure lamp sizes
(diameter).


not too hard to to a custom size!

PI (3.1417)

  Diameter you want ( I used 8" can be any size) multiplied by pi and
divided by the amount of
panels....IE

8(diameter) x3.1417=25.13 divided by 8 (panels  again, your choice of how
many panels you want) = 3.14" on the bottom of the panel.

Draw a vertical line the height of the panel you are going to want .

do the math to get the lower diameter....after you get the length of the
lower panel center that line on the bottom of the  vertical line.

If you need a 2" diameter top
pi times 2 =6.28 divide by 8 (panels)= .78 inches for the top
measurement.SUBTRACT .125" for the glass thickness!!!!!!

leaves .66"    center .66 on the top of the vertical line.........you should
have a CENTERED short line on top and a CENTERED long line on the bottom of
the vertical line
you drew to represent the height of the panel.

connect the outer edges to the top and bottom and it should give you a
trapezoid the EXACT size you want!
cut a set out of window glass if you are unsure and see how it looks. A jig
is a real good tool to do repetitive panel cutting!
easy, NO?
JIG: my definition, A frame or mechanical device allowing you do repeat
accurate repetitions.
A jig is MUST to do multiple repeat accurate panel cutting! It is also
faster to sometimes cut a whole panel, and then remove parts you want to do
in different color, than to try to cut each component separately and then
fit it. With experience, you can design a shade that used the cut offs as
well, such as 2 blues, cut off top of each set of panels and use it for the
other panel and so forth. Basically you are cutting to shades at one time of
different colors and reversing the fit of each color.
All panels must be assembled in a frame so lines will meet going from panel
to panel (if there are any) and all panels will be the same size. Even if
there is only a variance of 1/32"  ( if you need a reference. look at 2
sizes of foil, 3/16 and 7/32) per panel and there are 8 panels, it will be
.25" when you attempt to assemble it.

enjoy, H





weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard   best lamps on the "net"
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Tue Nov 17 14:23:23 1998
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From: <ks9837@yahoo.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: re your internet site
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 01:46:15
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            We'll Submit Your Site To 

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 17 14:52:41 1998
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Craft Fairs
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:58:16 -0500
Message-ID: <199811172202.RAA02763@uz.ComCAT.COM>
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>
>Well we did our first craft fair on Sunday.  I was somewhat disappointed.
>However I think I learned a lot.  One of the booths did have a whole 
>barrel of crows on a stick!
>
>My two major learnings were:
>
>1.  You have to have a lot of diversity of product, both in price and
>selection.
>
>2.  Generally people can't distinguish value in stained glass.  Simple
>patterns
>	priced aggressively seem to do better than more complex patterns,
>particularly
>	at the lower end. 
>
>Any more thoughts or advice?
>(Other than staying away from the crows)

There's no telling what people want from one show to the next. Kind of a 
crap shoot.
I've done well lately on hanging stars, hummingbirds, etched bevels, 
picture frames.
First show in Sept., all the butterflies went. Next show in Oct., no 
butterflies sold!
Go figure. Also, they are looking for "themes," as in "Do you have 
anything in music, sailboats, etc." 
Suzy/Suzanne

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 17 16:05:47 1998
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From: JKSinrod@aol.com
To: JJKIRBY@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Craft Fairs
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:12:21 EST
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In a message dated 11/17/98 1:58:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, JJKIRBY@aol.com
writes:

<< Subj:	 Craft Fairs
 Date:	11/17/98 1:58:02 PM Eastern Standard Time
 From:	JJKIRBY@aol.com
 To:	glass@bungi.com
 
 
 Well we did our first craft fair on Sunday.  I was somewhat disappointed.
 However I think I learned a lot.  One of the booths did have a whole 
 barrel of crows on a stick!
 
 My two major learnings were:
 
 1.  You have to have a lot of diversity of product, both in price and
 selection.
 
 2.  Generally people can't distinguish value in stained glass.  Simple
 patterns
 	priced aggressively seem to do better than more complex patterns,
 particularly
 	at the lower end. 
 
 Any more thoughts or advice?
 (Other than staying away from the crows)
 
  >>

Yes you are right. I am a veteran of the pricing and selling game. If you want
to be successful, forget such things as complexity, and wonderful skinny lead
lines. NO ONE knows the difference. Keep it to as few pieces as possible, and
price according to what it appears to be worth.... perceived value. 
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 17 16:23:06 1998
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Subject: Re: Craft Fairs
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:44:12 -0500
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JJKIRBY@aol.com wrote:

> Well we did our first craft fair on Sunday.  I was somewhat disappointed.
> However I think I learned a lot.

I wish I had the magic secret myself and I've been doing craft fairs for
years.(1) You want a juried show
(2) i tend to stay away from church shows and shows that are part of
festivals (though I've heard of one festival that may have a great craft
fair)  I figure if it has a Tilt-a-
whirl, who is going to buy glass?
(3) If there are many cradt fairs in the same area at the same time, you may
have diminished crowd.

Dorothy K

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 17 19:19:58 1998
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: soldering irons
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:57:44 -0600
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981117205744.00800ba0@sol.racsa.co.cr>
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Dear friends,
	I started soldering using an 80w Weller iron which came with my original
batch of supplies.  When that no longer stayed hot enough for me I looked
for something else, and the only thing available in Costa Rica were (is)
100w cheepos.... I used one of these for awhile, and now have to use two at
once and switch back an forth to keep the heat up.  They are burning out
way to frequently, so I have decided to order (probably from Delphi)
something better, that will work for some time (years I hope).  Problem is
I know nothing about them.. any words of wisdom?  What is the difference in
ceramic irons?
	Thanks,  Meg
RICHARD AND MEG LAVAL
Apdo 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA

PHONE 645-5052 or 645-5419
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 17 19:48:32 1998
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X-Path: snet.net!tbyrnes
From: Tim Byrnes <tbyrnes@snet.net>
To: "'Bungi'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE1276.339694E0"
Subject: CASTINGS
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:03:27 -0500
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BE1276.339694E0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Hello all,

 While I was on vacation in Provincetown, MA., last summer. Several of =
the Shops, that sold Stained Glass Art, had turtle lamps. It was a =
casting of a turtle, and where the shell part of the turtle would be was =
made of stained glass.

  Does anyone know  where, I can buy the turtle casting. I asked at a =
couple of the shops, where they purchased them, but no one was able to =
remember where they had got them from. =20

  If someone has any info, you can write to  me off the list.

  Thank you in Advance,

Tim B,                      [  tbyrnes@snet.net]

  QM Stained Glass Studio
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 17 20:11:59 1998
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From: Beadnik3@webtv.net (J B)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Craft Fairs
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:22:36 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1998Nov17.172236.0>
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>Well we did our first craft fair on Sunday. I
>was somewhat disappointed. However I
>think I learned a lot. One of the booths did
>have a whole barrel of crows on a stick! 
>My two major learnings were: 
>1. You have to have a lot of diversity of
>product, both in price and selection.

A lot of diversity, (particularly in price points) yes, but too much
selection can be overwhelming and confusing, and then people just can't
make a decision.  I also learned not to immediately fill in spaces when
something is sold.  It sort of says... hey, these are selling fast....
better buy now!  I also don't like to put out duplicates of the same
design.... you can always say... gee, I MAY have that in blue... would
you like me to check??? 

Hey, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.... glue it to a stick (just
kidding!)

Joan

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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Craft Fairs
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:59:46 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov17.165946.0>
References: <<199811172202.RAA02763@uz.ComCAT.COM>>
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> There's no telling what people want from one show to the next. Kind of a 
> crap shoot.
> I've done well lately on hanging stars, hummingbirds, etched bevels, 
> picture frames.
> First show in Sept., all the butterflies went. Next show in Oct., no 
> butterflies sold!
> Go figure. Also, they are looking for "themes," as in "Do you have 
> anything in music, sailboats, etc." 
> Suzy/Suzanne


So, do you ever get to make anything *you* want to make? 

Tulsa Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 17 21:41:37 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: J B <Beadnik3@webtv.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Craft Fairs
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:39:52 -0600
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>  I also don't like to put out duplicates of the same
> design.... you can always say... gee, I MAY have that in blue... would
> you like me to check??? 
> 
> Hey, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.... glue it to a stick (just
> kidding!)

I tell ya, seems some people just cant appreciate it unless it shouts
"Hobby Lobby Glue Gun Special"

Suzanne
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 17 21:51:17 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Howard and Elaine Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: repeat of math and JIG
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:49:26 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov17.164926.0>
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> pi times 2 =6.28 divide by 8 (panels)= .78 inches for the top
> measurement.SUBTRACT .125" for the glass thickness!!!!!!
> 
> leaves .66"    center .66 on the top of the vertical line.........you should
> have a CENTERED short line on top and a CENTERED long line on the bottom of
> the vertical line
> you drew to represent the height of the panel.


Howard, you have me terrified. I am so confused. I am afraid that 
I am missing the brain cells required for your course!
I am reminded of a college experience where I signed up for a
philosophy/logic course as an elective my senior year.  The 
first class was so far over my head, I went straight to the office
and dropped the course lest I lower my  GPA to a point that I could not
graduate after all!

Mathematically Challenged, Suzanne
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 17 22:05:50 1998
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: soldering irons
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:28:08 -0500
Message-ID: <199811180431.XAA03233@uz.ComCAT.COM>
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>Dear friends,
>	I started soldering using an 80w Weller iron which came with my original
>batch of supplies.  When that no longer stayed hot enough for me I looked
>for something else, and the only thing available in Costa Rica were (is)
>100w cheepos.... I used one of these for awhile, and now have to use two at
>once and switch back an forth to keep the heat up.  They are burning out
>way to frequently, so I have decided to order (probably from Delphi)
>something better, that will work for some time (years I hope).  Problem is
>I know nothing about them.. any words of wisdom?  What is the difference in
>ceramic irons?
>	Thanks,  Meg

Hi Meg, I love my 100w Weller. The first one lasted about 8 years, and 
the second is still going strong!
Suzy/Suzanne

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 17 22:10:45 1998
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Craft Fairs
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:07:37 -0500
Message-ID: <199811180511.AAA05991@uz.ComCAT.COM>
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>
>So, do you ever get to make anything *you* want to make? 

Not right now, need to make some money! But come January...I'm flying!! 
Got many many ideas. Have decided it's TIME to make what I want and find 
the right outlets. Then watch me go!
Suzy/Suzanne

P.S. How're you doing, Suzanne? What are you doing? Still stones? 
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 17 22:29:36 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Tim Byrnes <tbyrnes@snet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: CASTINGS
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:47:06 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov17.17476.0>
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> It was a casting of a turtle, and where the shell part of
> the turtle would be was made of stained glass.
> 
>   Does anyone know  where, I can buy the turtle casting. I asked at a couple of the shops,
> where they purchased them, but no one was able to remember where they had got them from.  
> 

My guess is they didnt want to *admit where they got them.
I have seen that turtle in *several mail order catalogs recently.
It is currently on page 8 of the National Wildlife Federation holiday
catalog that I got yesterday. It is priced at $54. 

It looks like it is very much like the stuff the stained glass lamps
that are sold at Hobby Lobby are made of. Have you seen those?
 The turtle looks like brass, and the glass looks real, but it isnt
copperfoiled or leaded.  Looks like it is put together with some kind of
rubbery plastic stuff.  Looks to me like the turtle lamp is being mass
produced somewhere else and imported.  


Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 17 23:42:50 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Craft Fairs
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:16:59 -0600
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> 
> P.S. How're you doing, Suzanne? What are you doing? Still stones? 

Yes, and fan lamps. Made (should say cut) a pretty starburst cross today
for my sister in law to give to a friend that collects. Soon, I want to
do some candle holder type things, and lamps that will fit in a fan lamp
base, but will have 3 sides.  Do they have a name?  Not sure how I will
do it, but that is what I will do.

A bit frustrated, because...
I *got* my nice 190 sq feet of work space (after asking and asking for
the sunroom for stained glass) by saying "you know, I bet I could make
some money with it."  This after having done *nothing* in 15 yrs!  Well,
I have a nice studio now.

I started doing stones to work on and get my cutting skills back.  I
really dont know how good a cutter I am, but I am better *now than I was
back *then.  I am a perfectionist, so am not satisfied, thank God.
I was getting a bit bored with doing just stones, and was really wanting
to solder something. I really love doing copper foil. Plus, I cut much
better knowing I am going to copper foil it.  I take my time, because I
want it to be just right.  Well, my husband just cant believe how long
it takes, asks things like "cant you buy precut kits?"  Cringe. Major
cringe.  

I want to be good at what I do.  I also dont want to sell something and
not feel that it was worthy. Or worse, not sell something, and know it
was because it wasnt good enough.

My husband, whose motivation is totally different than mine, wants me to
speed up, speed up, so that I can sell.  Meanwhile, I am not left to
work on glass full time.  It is during naps, late at night mid day when
"little bear" is on tv...etc...If I had to change my clothes everytime I
came in from my studio, I would be changing constantly. 

*I* want to learn to do stained glass work better than I did before, and
to make quality stained glass whatever.  I want to be *able to do
*anything I want with it.

I'm not ready to go to a show.  I could if all I took were my stones,
but I would be in a world of hurt I think because I dont have anything
to sell for less than $50.00.  Enter fan lamps. 

Say I did have enough inventory to do a show, I have never done a show,
dont have a clue as to what I would be getting into, dont have any
display, etc....  Feeling a bit over whelmed.  

 I wish money wasnt an object. I am feeling alot of pressure to produce
to sell what I can do,(and caring for the kids, and meals and dishes and
laundry, three other kids I care for, etc,,,,) when I really desire to
be learning what I currently cannot or dont know how to do.  Am I making
any sense?  I am doing what I can, and learning what I can, and trying
not to think/worry abou it too much so I dont drive myself nuts.

What I *want* to do is go to England and study under Elisabeths watchful
eye, and get on with the blood sweat and tears.  

Arent ya glad you asked? ;o)

Tulsa Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 00:22:27 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Craft Fairs
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:26:47 -0600
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> Then watch me go!
> Suzy/Suzanne

Go girl! ;o)

Suzanne, Tulsa
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 00:44:24 1998
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
To: pmsl@epix.netepix.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Seeking Paula/Excuse me
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 02:23:51 EST
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Sorry again Bungies, but my computer will not get me thru to Paula's address.
Is it because I have aol?  When I type pmsl@, the @ does not come thru that
way and I can see it on the returned post.  What could be the problem?  Any
ideas?
Paula, please send me your snail mail address and I will get the copy of the
pattern  in the mail, a.s.a.p., along with a photo.
Lenore
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 01:52:50 1998
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From: "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
To: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <weaver51@teleport.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: repeat of math and JIG
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:34:41 -0000
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-----Original Message-----
From: Howard and Elaine Rubin <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: glass@bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Date: 17 November 1998 20:07
Subject: repeat of math and JIG


>The following is a repeat of the my post on how to figure lamp sizes
>(diameter).
>
>
>not too hard to to a custom size!
>

etc etc


Um?

In the UK a 'fitter' is a type of garage mechanic! I've definitely never met
one with glass panels. Is this the famous tutu I keep hearing about?

Seriously though ----- what IS a fitter?

Regards

Brian

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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 03:52:17 1998
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X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones
From: "B. S. Jones" <b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk>
To: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: soldering irons
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:05:01 -0000
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.951.0>
Precedence: bulk

I know nothing about them.. any words of wisdom?  What is the difference
in
ceramic irons?
	Thanks,  Meg
RICHARD AND MEG LAVAL

Ceramic Irons are made using a ceramic tube to hold the element in and
do not normally have an outside metal jacket on the iron element. The
bits fit on the outside of the ceramic tube.The reason is good heat
conductivity from the element to the bit and also it can be isolated
electrically from earth.This means that you can solder in live
electrical circuits without damaging things by earthing them out.
Unfortunately the element is very fragile and prone to breaking easily
compared to a metal clad one. Basically if the type advertised are as I
have said above steer well clear of them.

Brandon
UK
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 04:53:40 1998
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From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: soldering irons
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 06:47:25 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.114725.0>
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Hi Meg - I second that - and love my 100w Weller too.  Mine is only 3 years
old but have never had a problem, even when soldering for 8 hours straight.
Whenever it gets a little draggy, about every 25-30 hours or so, I just clean
it up on a Sal Ammoniac block and it's like new!
Brenda

<< Hi Meg, I love my 100w Weller. The first one lasted about 8 years, and 
 the second is still going strong! >>
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 05:11:25 1998
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From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: bshep@dircon.co.uk
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: FITTER RINGS
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 06:58:16 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.115816.0>
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Hi Brian-
A fitter is actually a fitter ring, which is a brass ring with a 2-1/4, 3-1/4
or 4 inch opening that is used in place of a vase cap to fit around the socket
in lamps such as goosenecks or torchiers.  If you have a Warner catalog, they
are shown on page 122.    The fixture that it's used on would have to have
screws around the socket and you would tighten the screws down on the outside
of the fitter ring to hold the shade in place.  I have also used the fitter to
replace the plain ugly shades on my bathroom light fixtures.  It's rather hard
to find patterns that use a fitter ring, and they are usually small like for
the gooseneck lamp.  Hope this explains it!
Brenda

<< In the UK a 'fitter' is a type of garage mechanic! I've definitely never
met
 one with glass panels. Is this the famous tutu I keep hearing about?
 
 Seriously though ----- what IS a fitter? >>
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 05:23:57 1998
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'Tim Byrnes'" <tbyrnes@snet.net>, "'Bungi'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: CASTINGS
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:13:59 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.21359.0>
Precedence: bulk

[Linda Campbell]  I saw these lamps (cast body - blown shell) a year or so 
ago for about $50.00. Thought they were lovely. Just last week I saw a 
knockoff of them at Walmart for $15.00. Check the box they come in for 
addresses

Linda


From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 05:25:03 1998
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To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: suzanne de tulsa's missive
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:12:38 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.121238.0>
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My dear, you sound like a typical mom.  Everyone and everything else first,
you last.  Make time for yourself, you deserve it.  I often have the delusion
I can't touch my glass or work in the garden till the house is perfect (the
house is never going to be perfect, so why torture myself?)   Sounds like your
husband may have dollar signs in his eyes.  He needs to understand you are
working with glass to make yourself happy and keep your sanity, if money is
your primary objective you will soon become disenchanted working on your
glass.

When you run away to England, can I go with you?  However, I am going to pass
on the class that advocates soldering naked in the moonlight.

Keep the faith.    
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 06:24:45 1998
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From: JKSinrod@aol.com
To: rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: soldering irons
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:44:22 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.134422.0>
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In a message dated 11/17/98 10:30:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr writes:

<< Subj:	 soldering irons
 Date:	11/17/98 10:30:14 PM Eastern Standard Time
 From:	rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr (Richard LaVal)
 To:	glass@bungi.com
 
 Dear friends,
 	I started soldering using an 80w Weller iron which came with my original
 batch of supplies.  When that no longer stayed hot enough for me I looked
 for something else, and the only thing available in Costa Rica were (is)
 100w cheepos.... I used one of these for awhile, and now have to use two at
 once and switch back an forth to keep the heat up.  They are burning out
 way to frequently, so I have decided to order (probably from Delphi)
 something better, that will work for some time (years I hope).  Problem is
 I know nothing about them.. any words of wisdom?  What is the difference in
 ceramic irons?
 	Thanks,  Meg
 RICHARD AND MEG LAVAL
 Apdo 24-5655
 Monteverde
 COSTA RICA
 
 PHONE 645-5052 or 645-5419
 ---- >>

Something is fishy here Meg?? Are you using the correct voltage for your area?
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 06:45:46 1998
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From: "Vic LaGreca" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: English method
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:23:08 -0500
Message-ID: <19981118131940.SFIY29729@vic>
Precedence: bulk

I have taken one class to learn the basics of cutting glass to do copper
foil and leaded glass.  The two women that ran the class taught the
following procedure:

1.  Draw, trace and/or copy from a pattern book two copies (or more) of the
subject.  If unsure, color      with color pencil to get a feel for colors.
2.  Number both copies for ease of assembly.
3.  Cut one copy along pattern lines and glue to the appropriate glass,
taking into consideration color,      texture and "veins of color".
4.  Cut and groze glass along pattern edges.
5.  Finish on grinder (as needed).
6.  Wash glass.
7.  Check glass for fit with pattern.
8.  Foil or lead glass.
9.  Solder.
10  Wash piece.
11.  If foil, edge around piece as needed, if lead, putty.
12.  Wash again.
13.  Patina, clean and wax.

It seems like a pretty straight forward way to work.  This method also
lends itself to assembly line type of production.

Is the only difference between English and American method the way the
glass is cut?  From what I understand, the glass is marked on a light box. 
There are some very dark glasses, how are they marked for cutting?

Is it just a matter of convention or is there an advantage of one way over
the other?  

Ciao

Vic

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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 06:57:11 1998
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From: CWWSLW@aol.com
To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Craft Fairs
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:04:18 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.14418.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hey, You go girl !!

Keep your mind set on quality. I know there are a lot of people out there who
don't know beans about solder seams, etc. But if someone who did ever saw a
really sloppy piece that you did, word would get around. (then you might as
well be working at Hobby Lobby with a glue gun).

 What you're doing is an art form. Tell Hubby you'd rather be making money
with things you're proud of, rather than producing junk. Even if the people
don't know what it is they're buying, you'll sleep better at night.
Don't get stressed out over it !! Take one  thing at a time. 
Never forget to marvel in the beauty of it all.

My two cents worth,
Susan
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 07:19:16 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: soldering irons
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:31:23 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.43123.0>
References: <<3.0.5.32.19981117205744.00800ba0@sol.racsa.co.cr>>
Precedence: bulk

Richard LaVal wrote:
> 
> Dear friends,
>         I started soldering using an 80w Weller iron which came with my original
> batch of supplies.  When that no longer stayed hot enough for me I looked
> for something else, and the only thing available in Costa Rica were (is)
> 100w cheepos.... I used one of these for awhile, and now have to use two at
> once and switch back an forth to keep the heat up.  They are burning out
> way to frequently, so I have decided to order (probably from Delphi)
> something better, that will work for some time (years I hope).  Problem is
> I know nothing about them.. any words of wisdom?  What is the difference in
> ceramic irons?
>         Thanks,  Meg
> RICHARD AND MEG LAVAL
> Apdo 24-5655
> Monteverde
> COSTA RICA
> 
> PHONE 645-5052 or 645-5419
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


the main differences that i've found with ceramic is: 

1. it's lighter
2. it heats up very fast (under a minute usually)
3. it can usually keep up with the heat

i use an ungar with a heater unit/tip combo. it costs about $50.00 to
replace it when it's dead, but i found that one heats up the best. i
have a hakko, but it really stinks. the tip quality is bad, and it
does'nt get as hot. i also have an ungar where i can change the tip
sizes (it can be bought at grainger for a pretty good price), but it
does'nt heat up as well.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 07:28:11 1998
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X-Path: socent.org!atf
From: "K. See" <atf@socent.org>
To: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>, bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: CASTINGS
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:24:23 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.42423.0>
References: <<1998Nov17.17476.0>>
Organization: SOC Enterprises
Precedence: bulk

I received a catalog from Blair Shoppe. They also have the turtle page 45 for $19.95 and on page
9 they have a "SG Church" with music box & light 8"x5"x5" for $29.95, SG Angel w/ light 10"hx7d
$34.95, candle holders $9.95.
I thought briefly of getting the turtle & making my own body, but I would rather come up with my
own designs than spend the time- from what I can tell from the picture it has at least 40
pieces.
K. See

Suzanne wrote:

>
>
> My guess is they didnt want to *admit where they got them.
> I have seen that turtle in *several mail order catalogs recently.
> It is currently on page 8 of the National Wildlife Federation holiday
> catalog that I got yesterday. It is priced at $54.

Suzanne wrote:

> > It was a casting of a turtle, and where the shell part of
> > the turtle would be was made of stained glass.
> >
> >   Does anyone know  where, I can buy the turtle casting. I asked at a couple of the shops,
> > where they purchased them, but no one was able to remember where they had got them from.
> >
>
>
>
>
> ----
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 07:38:41 1998
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X-Path: hotmail.com!katmath
From: "Kathy Mather" <katmath@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Suzanne
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 06:20:15 PST
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.142015.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hey Suzanne,
     All I can say is boy, did you hit the nail on the head. Sounds like 
my house. I keep getting the , You know if you'd sell some things. But I 
agree with you I don't really want to sell untill I'm sure that my work 
is good enough and that I'm happy with it. If its not good enough its 
only going to come back and bite me in the butt.
And yes, it's every mothers story working between the kids needs. 
    So I guess I just wanted to let you know that there are others that 
know how you feel and where your coming from. But just think things can 
only get better. Some day we may be begging for them to let us out of 
our shops LOL . What are the odds.
                                                 Kathy

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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 07:54:25 1998
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X-Path: socent.org!atf
From: "K. See" <atf@socent.org>
To: BMarhon@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: soldering irons
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:57:23 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.45723.0>
References: <<1998Nov18.114725.0>>
Organization: SOC Enterprises
Precedence: bulk

I agree with Brenda & Suzy. In addition to the 100w which has a 700 degree tip I
have the Weller SPG80 with a temperature control. I use this for decorative
soldering I got mine on sale from Glass Crafters $26.95- check with Warners as
their regular price is $29.95 vs Delphi's price. The temp control was $16.95. As
far as the 100w Delphi & Warner are priced the same.  Best advice I can give it
to clean with the Sal Ammoniac block.
K. See

BMarhon@aol.com wrote:

> Hi Meg - I second that - and love my 100w Weller too.  Mine is only 3 years
> old but have never had a problem, even when soldering for 8 hours straight.
> Whenever it gets a little draggy, about every 25-30 hours or so, I just clean
> it up on a Sal Ammoniac block and it's like new!
> Brenda
>
> << Hi Meg, I love my 100w Weller. The first one lasted about 8 years, and
>  the second is still going strong! >>
> ----
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 08:21:05 1998
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From: "K. See" <atf@socent.org>
To: CncptThnkr@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: suzanne de tulsa's missive
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:06:33 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.5633.0>
References: <<1998Nov18.121238.0>>
Organization: SOC Enterprises
Precedence: bulk

I counld't have said this any better. Hey, how many gifts have you made in the
past & for the coming holidays? If you figured the cost of supplies for each peice
and it is from your heart (which you can't put a price on) they are certainly far
better than anything else you could give.
K. See

CncptThnkr@aol.com wrote:

> My dear, you sound like a typical mom.  Everyone and everything else first,
> you last.  Make time for yourself, you deserve it.  I often have the delusion
> I can't touch my glass or work in the garden till the house is perfect (the
> house is never going to be perfect, so why torture myself?)   Sounds like your
> husband may have dollar signs in his eyes.  He needs to understand you are
> working with glass to make yourself happy and keep your sanity, if money is
> your primary objective you will soon become disenchanted working on your
> glass.
>
> When you run away to England, can I go with you?  However, I am going to pass
> on the class that advocates soldering naked in the moonlight.
>
> Keep the faith.
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 08:24:57 1998
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From: Bob the Dinosaur <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: soldering irons
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:06:37 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.5637.0>
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Organization: Cox's Mower Service
Precedence: bulk

Translation for us on the other side of the pond:
good 'earthing' = 'grounding'
bad 'earthing' = 'shorting' or 'shorting out'

>This means that you can solder in live electrical circuits without >damaging things by earthing them out.

-- 
Adults are obsolete children
		Theodore Geisel

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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 08:44:10 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: "K. See" <atf@socent.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: suzanne de tulsa's missive
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:16:47 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.31647.0>
References: <<3652E278.FCF1E88F@socent.org>>
Precedence: bulk

>  When you run away to England, can I go with you?  However, I am going to pass
> > on the class that advocates soldering naked in the moonlight.
> >


Wonder if we could talk Elisabeth into running a home for runaway
Mothers? ;o) Kind of a rest home type thing,  we could actually take
turns cooking, vacuuming as in a hostel. Stained glass as our therapy.

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 08:44:12 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Vic LaGreca <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: English method
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:24:57 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.52457.0>
References: <<19981118131940.SFIY29729@vic>>
Precedence: bulk

Vic LaGreca wrote:
> 
> I have taken one class to learn the basics of cutting glass to do copper
> foil and leaded glass.  The two women that ran the class taught the
> following procedure:
> 
> 1.  Draw, trace and/or copy from a pattern book two copies (or more) of the
> subject.  If unsure, color      with color pencil to get a feel for colors.
> 2.  Number both copies for ease of assembly.
> 3.  Cut one copy along pattern lines and glue to the appropriate glass,
> taking into consideration color,      texture and "veins of color".
> 4.  Cut and groze glass along pattern edges.
> 5.  Finish on grinder (as needed).
> 6.  Wash glass.
> 7.  Check glass for fit with pattern.
> 8.  Foil or lead glass.
> 9.  Solder.
> 10  Wash piece.
> 11.  If foil, edge around piece as needed, if lead, putty.
> 12.  Wash again.
> 13.  Patina, clean and wax.
> 
> It seems like a pretty straight forward way to work.  This method also
> lends itself to assembly line type of production.
> 
> Is the only difference between English and American method the way the
> glass is cut?  From what I understand, the glass is marked on a light box.
> There are some very dark glasses, how are they marked for cutting?
> 
> Is it just a matter of convention or is there an advantage of one way over
> the other?
> 
> Ciao
> 
> Vic
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i use the light box method for most glass types. if it's too dark i use
carbon paper, then trace those lines. i found it's faster, neater, and
easier to use the light box method.

---Mike Savad


-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 08:54:51 1998
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Tim Byrnes <tbyrnes@snet.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: CASTINGS
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:38:29 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.03829.0>
References: <<1998Nov17.17327.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Tim:  The turtle castings you are seeking are available at Home Base
stores everywhere for $29.00.  I doubt you could find the casting alone
for this amount.  PJ

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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 09:27:33 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Gnomons and Patrick
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:55:48 -0600
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:-)  I finally learned what a gnomon is!  Here I thought Patrick was
referring to private parts! 

Suzanne, Tulsa
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 10:28:11 1998
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X-Path: yahoo.com!the_eljay
From: Linda Jo Letscher <the_eljay@yahoo.com>
To: CWWSLW@aol.com, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Craft Fairs
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:25:46 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.12546.0>
Precedence: bulk

I agree, I will take quality over quantity any time.  I have seem some
horrible stuff at craft fairs and even art shows, that I would be
ashamed to have my name on.  Maybe you can find some middle ground, do
fine work, but maybe designs with less pieces.  I am sorry your
husband is putting undo pressure on you for production.  I have always
concentrated in quality in any project I do.  Hope all this works out
for you.
P.S.  Sure hope I am answer this right, I have been getting all the
e-mail for a week now but didn't understand how to respond.  Sorry
folks if this wasn't sent correctly.  Eljay




---CWWSLW@aol.com wrote:
>
> Hey, You go girl !!
> 
> Keep your mind set on quality. I know there are a lot of people out
there who
> don't know beans about solder seams, etc. But if someone who did
ever saw a
> really sloppy piece that you did, word would get around. (then you
might as
> well be working at Hobby Lobby with a glue gun).
> 
>  What you're doing is an art form. Tell Hubby you'd rather be making
money
> with things you're proud of, rather than producing junk. Even if the
people
> don't know what it is they're buying, you'll sleep better at night.
> Don't get stressed out over it !! Take one  thing at a time. 
> Never forget to marvel in the beauty of it all.
> 
> My two cents worth,
> Susan
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
 

==
Linda Jo Letscher
E-mail: the_eljay@yahoo.com
UIN 5072431


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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 10:51:20 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!JKSinrod
From: JKSinrod@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
Subject: Fwd: English method
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:03:52 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.16352.0>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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In a message dated 11/18/98 10:58:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, JKSinrod
writes:

> In a message dated 11/18/98 9:46:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, vlg@worldnet.
> att.net writes:
>  
>  > Subj:	 English method
>  >  Date:	11/18/98 9:46:37 AM Eastern Standard Time
>  >  From:	vlg@worldnet.att.net (Vic LaGreca)
>  >  To:	glass@bungi.com
>  >  
>  >  I have taken one class to learn the basics of cutting glass to do copper
>  >  foil and leaded glass.  The two women that ran the class taught the
>  >  following procedure:
>  >  
>  >  1.  Draw, trace and/or copy from a pattern book two copies (or more) of 
> the
>  >  subject.  If unsure, color      with color pencil to get a feel for 
> colors.
>  >  2.  Number both copies for ease of assembly.
>  >  3.  Cut one copy along pattern lines and glue to the appropriate glass,
>  >  taking into consideration color,      texture and "veins of color".
>  >  4.  Cut and groze glass along pattern edges.
>  >  5.  Finish on grinder (as needed).
>  >  6.  Wash glass.
>  >  7.  Check glass for fit with pattern.
>  >  8.  Foil or lead glass.
>  >  9.  Solder.
>  >  10  Wash piece.
>  >  11.  If foil, edge around piece as needed, if lead, putty.
>  >  12.  Wash again.
>  >  13.  Patina, clean and wax.
>  >  
>  >  It seems like a pretty straight forward way to work.  This method also
>  >  lends itself to assembly line type of production.
>  >  
>  >  Is the only difference between English and American method the way the
>  >  glass is cut?  From what I understand, the glass is marked on a light
box.
>  
>  >  There are some very dark glasses, how are they marked for cutting?
>  >  
>  >  Is it just a matter of convention or is there an advantage of one way 
> over
>  >  the other?  
>  >  
>  >  Ciao
  
  There are a couple of steps that can be streamlined or eliminated with your 
 procedure.... but its certainly viable. You must cut the pattern inside the 
 line, to allow for foil and spacing. You can just trace the pattern on the 
 glass with a marker, and then cut inside of it. Cut exactly right the first 
 time, and you won't have to waste time grozing and grinding most pieces, thus
 citting your labor down dramatically. Light box cutting is only for pro's, 
 where time is more important than accuracy.
  
  http://members.aol.com/JKSinrod/sinrod.html
  
  


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From: JKSinrod@aol.com
Return-path: <JKSinrod@aol.com>
To: vlg@worldnet.att.net, JKSinrod@aol.com
Subject: Re: English method
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:58:23 EST
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 11/18/98 9:46:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,
vlg@worldnet.att.net writes:

> Subj:	 English method
>  Date:	11/18/98 9:46:37 AM Eastern Standard Time
>  From:	vlg@worldnet.att.net (Vic LaGreca)
>  To:	glass@bungi.com
>  
>  I have taken one class to learn the basics of cutting glass to do copper
>  foil and leaded glass.  The two women that ran the class taught the
>  following procedure:
>  
>  1.  Draw, trace and/or copy from a pattern book two copies (or more) of the
>  subject.  If unsure, color      with color pencil to get a feel for colors.
>  2.  Number both copies for ease of assembly.
>  3.  Cut one copy along pattern lines and glue to the appropriate glass,
>  taking into consideration color,      texture and "veins of color".
>  4.  Cut and groze glass along pattern edges.
>  5.  Finish on grinder (as needed).
>  6.  Wash glass.
>  7.  Check glass for fit with pattern.
>  8.  Foil or lead glass.
>  9.  Solder.
>  10  Wash piece.
>  11.  If foil, edge around piece as needed, if lead, putty.
>  12.  Wash again.
>  13.  Patina, clean and wax.
>  
>  It seems like a pretty straight forward way to work.  This method also
>  lends itself to assembly line type of production.
>  
>  Is the only difference between English and American method the way the
>  glass is cut?  From what I understand, the glass is marked on a light box. 
>  There are some very dark glasses, how are they marked for cutting?
>  
>  Is it just a matter of convention or is there an advantage of one way over
>  the other?  
>  
>  Ciao
>  
There are a couple of steps that can be streamlined or eliminated with your
procedure.... but its certainly viable. You must cut the pattern inside the
line, to allow for foil and spacing. You can just trace the pattern on the
glass with a marker, and then cut inside of it. Cut exactly right the first
time, and you won't have to waste time grozing and grinding most pieces, thus
citting your labor down dramatically. Light box cutting is only for pro's,
where time is more important than accuracy.

http://members.aol.com/JKSinrod/sinrod.html


--part0_911412233_boundary--
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 10:57:45 1998
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X-Path: warner-criv.com!charles
From: "Charles Warner" <charles@warner-criv.com>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: FITTER RINGS-where to see
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:28:56 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.82856.0>
Precedence: bulk

>A fitter is actually a fitter ring, which is a brass ring with a 2-1/4,
3-1/4
>or 4 inch opening that is used in place of a vase cap to fit around the
socket
>in lamps such as goosenecks or torchiers.  If you have a Warner catalog,
they
>are shown on page 122.    The fixture that it's used on would have to have
>screws around the socket and you would tighten the screws down on the
outside
>of the fitter ring to hold the shade in place

To see a brief description and illustration of the fitter rings go to
http://www.warner-criv.com/product.asp?pf%5Fid=3663%2D20

Charles Warner
Warner-Crivellaro

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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 11:27:14 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!PDRUSS
From: PDRUSS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Craft Fairs
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:43:48 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.184348.0>
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In a message dated 98-11-17 23:13:48 EST, Beadnik3@webtv.net writes:

<< 
 Hey, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.... glue it to a stick (just
 kidding!)
 
 Joan >>


Actually I was thinking about how I could **glue** some small glaass pieces to
a stick to put in my garden. 

But I worried about the sun coming through the glass and starting fires.  Hey,
it was very dry here this year and we had enough forest fires as it was.


Dianne 
Jackwsonville, FL
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 11:54:23 1998
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: English method
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:53:43 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.185343.0>
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In a message dated 11/18/98 8:46:05 AM Pacific Standard Time, esavad@home.net
writes:

<< i use the light box method for most glass types. if it's too dark i use
 carbon paper, then trace those lines. i found it's faster, neater, and
 easier to use the light box method. >>

I agree, although I was taught the same way as Vic.  All that 
pattern work is very time consuming and I think you lose accuracy 
in the process.

After I switched to a light box, stained glass work was more fun.
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 11:56:42 1998
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From: PDRUSS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Craft Fairs
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:52:47 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.185247.0>
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In a message dated 98-11-18 00:21:27 EST, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com writes:

<< 
 So, do you ever get to make anything *you* want to make? 
 
 Tulsa Suzanne >>


I've only done a few craft shows and have been very dissapointed in the sales.
I generally only make my own designs.

At the last one, a few weeks ago, several people stopped by my table and told
me I had the best table there but I only made one sell all day.   :(    

Oh well, I guess the family will get some cool stuff for christmas.


Dianne
Jacksonville, FL




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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 12:20:07 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Linda Jo Letscher <the_eljay@yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Craft Fairs and sal ammoniac
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:12:53 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.71253.0>
References: <<1998Nov18.12546.0>>
Precedence: bulk

> Maybe you can find some middle ground, do
> fine work, but maybe designs with less pieces.


That's the thing...as I am really pushing myself to learn and
improve...I tend to want to do more.  I showed Suzy a .jpg of 
the glass I used for a paver stone...had over 50 peices.  Took 
as much time as a 50 peice 16"hex...but who in their right mind 
would pay for that kind of work?  Either my mother (who gushes over that
one) or myself will have that one.

So I will do some things purposfully to sell...and more difficult things
for myself to grow with...and who knows maybe they will sell! 

By the way, how did your soldering irons' tip come out?  Have you used
the sal ammoniac yet?  If my tip could come clean, I bet yours will.

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 12:28:29 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: glass beaded fringe?
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:26:09 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.7269.0>
Precedence: bulk

Is there such a thing as glass beaded fringe that is on solderable
material, instead of fabric???  I have an idea for a panel I would like
to do, and that would be perfect for it.  Is there such a thing?  Anyone
know where I could get it?  Or, is it going to be up to me to make it
myself?

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 13:15:53 1998
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!vlg
From: "Vic LaGreca" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: "Suzanne" <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Gnomons and Patrick
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:20:51 -0500
Message-ID: <19981118201748.WVP5793@vic>
Precedence: bulk

Old proverb say:   Man who wears glass Tu-Tu will soon have 
Gno Mons.

Ciao

Vic


----------
> From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Gnomons and Patrick
> Date: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 11:55 AM
> 
> :-)  I finally learned what a gnomon is!  Here I thought Patrick was
> referring to private parts! 
> 
> Suzanne, Tulsa
> -- 
> ~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
> ----
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 13:47:31 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, JKSinrod@aol.com, glass@intrastar.net
Subject: Fwd: English method
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:55:27, -0500
Message-ID: <199811181955.OAA10106@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>. Light box cutting is only for pro's, 
 where time is more important than accuracy.<<

Not true, at least IMNSHO. Accuracy is the key to saving time. Most 
"pros" cut on a light box because they can see the grain/pattern of 
the glass, save time and actually do a more accurate job of cutting 
than with patterns. Beginners are often taught "German" cutting with 
patterns to get them started and then switched to light cutting when 
they are familiar with cutting and can produce the control necessary.


With practice, a rather dark piece of glass can be cut on a light 
table. Unless absolutely necessary (like with mirror) I will select 
another piece of glass rather than not light cut. This game is all 
about transmitting and refracting light and so there has to be a very 
good reason to use glass that will not light cut.

IMO, the terms English and German are misleading when it comes to 
cutting glass. 

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 14:33:03 1998
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From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com
Subject: glass beaded fringe?
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:47:19, -0500
Message-ID: <199811182147.QAA09932@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

Whitmore-Durgan has offered glass beaded fringe in their catalog. 
Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 15:35:22 1998
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From: Vicki Gillespie <vgillespie@riverview.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Change of address?
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:20:29 -0800
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How do I inform the list of my new e-mail address so I can continue to receive it?

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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 16:04:41 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!wernecke
From: Steve Wernecke <wernecke@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Question for Weller 100 lovers
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:38:49 -0800
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981118153849.00da4100@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Precedence: bulk

I'm having trouble getting my Weller 100 not to melt lead came.  I'm using
60/40 and have tried two tip sizes.  Even a brief and light touch is liable
to zap the came edge.  My iron is getting on in years.  Does anyone know if
these guys get hotter before they fail?  I'd buy a temperature control, but
I've been told this will just fight with the Weller's internal thermostat.
TIA for any advice.

Steve
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 17:37:23 1998
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From: Linda Jo Letscher <the_eljay@yahoo.com>
To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Craft Fairs and sal ammoniac
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:36:10 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.83610.0>
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Suzanne,
I have an order in to Warner, hope I get it before Thanksgiving. 
Thanks, Eljay




---Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > Maybe you can find some middle ground, do
> > fine work, but maybe designs with less pieces.
> 
> 
> That's the thing...as I am really pushing myself to learn and
> improve...I tend to want to do more.  I showed Suzy a .jpg of 
> the glass I used for a paver stone...had over 50 peices.  Took 
> as much time as a 50 peice 16"hex...but who in their right mind 
> would pay for that kind of work?  Either my mother (who gushes over
that
> one) or myself will have that one.
> 
> So I will do some things purposfully to sell...and more difficult
things
> for myself to grow with...and who knows maybe they will sell! 
> 
> By the way, how did your soldering irons' tip come out?  Have you used
> the sal ammoniac yet?  If my tip could come clean, I bet yours will.
> 
> Suzanne
> -- 
> ~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
> 

==
Linda Jo Letscher
E-mail: the_eljay@yahoo.com
UIN 5072431


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From: JKSinrod@aol.com
To: wernecke@ix.netcom.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Question for Weller 100 lovers
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:11:13 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.11113.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 11/18/98 7:06:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,
wernecke@ix.netcom.com writes:

<< Subj:	 Question for Weller 100 lovers
 Date:	11/18/98 7:06:18 PM Eastern Standard Time
 From:	wernecke@ix.netcom.com (Steve Wernecke)
 To:	glass@bungi.com
 
 I'm having trouble getting my Weller 100 not to melt lead came.  I'm using
 60/40 and have tried two tip sizes.  Even a brief and light touch is liable
 to zap the came edge.  My iron is getting on in years.  Does anyone know if
 these guys get hotter before they fail?  I'd buy a temperature control, but
 I've been told this will just fight with the Weller's internal thermostat.
 TIA for any advice.
  >>
I have an old Weller 100 that has gotten cooler with age. Maybe these
temperature changes indicate they are near death??
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 18:08:06 1998
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Question for Weller 100 lovers
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:35:41 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.153541.0>
Precedence: bulk

Steve,  I assume you are using a thermostat, either free standing or on your
iron.  Set the temperature by touching the iron to solder until it melts,
clean the tip and touch it to a scrap of came and lower the remp until it
will not melt.  The range in between the two melting points is the right
setting for working with came....Solder has a lower melting point than pure
lead.

Arnold Schneider    Creekside Creations    Richfield, PA

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Wernecke <wernecke@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 7:26 PM
Subject: Question for Weller 100 lovers


>I'm having trouble getting my Weller 100 not to melt lead came.  I'm using
>60/40 and have tried two tip sizes.  Even a brief and light touch is liable
>to zap the came edge.  My iron is getting on in years.  Does anyone know if
>these guys get hotter before they fail?  I'd buy a temperature control, but
>I've been told this will just fight with the Weller's internal thermostat.
>TIA for any advice.
>
>Steve
>----
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 18:31:03 1998
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X-Path: hotmail.com!scottjf55
From: "Scott ." <scottjf55@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: weller 100
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:50:29 PST
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.15029.0>
Precedence: bulk


  I just had a customer come into thew store the other day with the same 
problem.  It was the iron and the way it uses the reastat inside.  Take 
it to your glass supplier and ask them to put a classroom reastat inside 
of it and see if it still melts the came like that.  I wouldn't suggest 
using a temp control thing either because it is the iron itself.  If it 
still is way hot than put it away somewhere and pull it out when you 
need to solder some heavy rebar or something, than it is useful at that 
temperature.

Scott *sm*


********************
ICQ# 19748244

Scott's Stained Glass Technical Corner
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Square/8791

Proud member of:

Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

Join our live glass chat! 
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html 


______________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 18:38:43 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!mschatee
From: mschatee@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: CASTINGS
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:50:30 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.15030.0>
References: <<1998Nov17.17327.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Tim I was in Ptown last summer and saw the same turtles, I drooled over
them as well as some of the other beautiful glasswork there.  I thought a
lot of it was overpriced but some of the artists allowed me to watch them
work and gave me some great advice.
Sorry  I don't know about the castings I just wanted to add my 2 cents.

Caren

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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 21:49:23 1998
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: mschatee@juno.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Glass Art Site
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:55:10 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.175510.0>
References: <<1998Nov19.15030.0>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Just bumped into this site, and this artist.  It is a "how is it done"
wonder.  WOW!  

Thought others would enjoy also.

http://www.njmgallery.com/pages/t_sand.html

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 18 22:53:32 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.net!SUZIEQ1
From: "Sandra I Gustafson" <SUZIEQ1@prodigy.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject:  Craft Fairs
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:05:59 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.20559.0>
Precedence: bulk


Remember: Be kind to everyone, because, everyone is having a hard time.
-----Original Message-----
From: Sandra I Gustafson <SUZIEQ1@prodigy.net>
To: glass-request@bungi.com <glass-request@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 1:34 AM
Subject: Craft Fairs


>  Dear All,
>I would have written early, but was ashamed at how my first craft show
went,
>but with the thread going on I deceided to jump in.  A couple of months ago
>I set up at the 25th anniversary of this certain craft show in the area
that
>I live.  I went to all of the trouble of renting a arch wove silk flowers
>and vines through the lattuce, rented a wishing well and placed a beautiful
>silk arrangement in the center of it.  A nursery loaned me a dozen mum
>plants (sold 5 of them) whiched I  placed on the outside of the archway.  I
>placed 13 full faced stepping stones in and around the archway that I had
>made.  Around the wishing well I place a tree ring that I had made.  It
>turned out really beautiful and had alot of complements on my display.  I
>payed a total of $155 in entrance, and rental fees.
>
>I had alot of ohh's and ahh's and gave out over 60 of my cards to people
>*whomed* seemed to be interested.  Could have sold the wishing well 6
times.
>Not one stepping stone did I sell.  People kept saying that they were
>toooooo  pretty to step on and I couldn't get accross to them that they
were
>really durable and weather resistance.  I even told then how I put them
>together with a center support of wire.
>
>I did sell two panels, one of a sunflower and the other of a seashell
which
>amounted to $75 for the both.  These were my first pieces that I had made
>and were not that very good.
>
>It will be along time before I do another craft fair.
>
>Soured on craft shows,
>Sandy
>Remember: Be kind to everyone, because, everyone is having a hard time.
>

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 00:02:11 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio
From: dodgestudio@juno.com
To: wernecke@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: Question for Weller 100 lovers
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:12:14 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov18.201214.0>
References: <<3.0.3.32.19981118153849.00da4100@popd.ix.netcom.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Steve,

Despite what anyone says it will do no harm to use the Weller 100 with a
temperature control if you can't rein it in enough with a lower
temperature tip.  (And it will produce the desired result).

Another thing you might try is making yourself some sal-ammoniac water. 
Break off about a cubic inch from a sal-ammoniac block and disolve it in
a cup of water.  Each time your iron has been sitting idle jab it into
the sal-ammoniac water before you start to solder.  The key is to learn
to jab the iron in and out so that only the tip and not the heating
element gets wet.  The move must be smooth and sudden and make a sharp
KISS sound, never a boiling or hissing noise.  That would mean you jabbed
too slowly.  If done correctly this will also flash clean your tip
removing all oxides before you start to solder.  Once you actually get to
work and solder several joints in sucession you'll likely find that your
iron has given up enough heat to the work that you won't have to jab
again unless you let the iron sit idle again.


Gary Dodge              Dodge Studio Designs

http://www.dodgestudio.com

On Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:38:49 -0800 Steve Wernecke
<wernecke@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>I'm having trouble getting my Weller 100 not to melt lead came.  I'm 
>using
>60/40 and have tried two tip sizes.  Even a brief and light touch is 
>liable
>to zap the came edge.  My iron is getting on in years.  Does anyone 
>know if
>these guys get hotter before they fail?  I'd buy a temperature 
>control, but
>I've been told this will just fight with the Weller's internal 
>thermostat.
>TIA for any advice.
>
>Steve
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 00:58:48 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: suzanne de tulsa's missive
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 07:47:24 +0000
Message-ID: <199811190755.HAA20431@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk


....Or a home for run-away moonlighting mothers...????
E 'n T in UK

> >  When you run away to England, can I go with you?  However, I am going to pass
> > > on the class that advocates soldering naked in the moonlight.
> > >
> 
> 
> Wonder if we could talk Elisabeth into running a home for runaway
> Mothers? ;o) Kind of a rest home type thing,  we could actually take
> turns cooking, vacuuming as in a hostel. Stained glass as our therapy.
> 
> Suzanne
> -- 
> ~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 01:26:32 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!wernecke
From: Steve Wernecke <wernecke@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Thanks for Weller advice
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 23:22:43 -0800
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981118232243.00da7a40@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Precedence: bulk

Thanks for the quick response to my Weller question and especially to Dave
& Lynn Loda who suggested that I must be using an 800 degree tip.  I would
have sworn that the new tip I bought was a 700 degree one, but sure enough,
it's an 800.  Back to work on Xmas presents...

Steve
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 01:46:18 1998
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From: mailbox1 <mailbox1@ESSGlasgow.org.uk>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Craft fairs
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 98 08:55:28 +0000
Message-ID: <199811190854.IAA19558@mx1.rmplc.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Yes I get a bit anoyed at craft fairs where a constant stream of people 
tell you "your pieces are lovely - very nice etc." spend 20 minutes 
looking at my catalogue of previous work AND THEN WALKAWAY WITHOUT BUYING.

Dianne wrote

>At the last one, a few weeks ago, several people stopped by my table and told
>me I had the best table there but I only made one sell all day.   :(    

Phil
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 03:24:59 1998
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X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep
From: "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
To: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: suzanne de tulsa's missive
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:47:14 -0000
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.104714.0>
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Elisabeth!

I hope you will bring all your run away moonlighting mothers to Cornwall for
a few days! Ann and I would be delighted to see you all!  We can accommodate
two confortably and two more on matresses on the floor!

Regards

Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: 19 November 1998 09:03
Subject: Re: suzanne de tulsa's missive


>
>....Or a home for run-away moonlighting mothers...????
>E 'n T in UK
>
>> >  When you run away to England, can I go with you?  However, I am going
to pass
>> > > on the class that advocates soldering naked in the moonlight.
>> > >
>>
>>
>> Wonder if we could talk Elisabeth into running a home for runaway
>> Mothers? ;o) Kind of a rest home type thing,  we could actually take
>> turns cooking, vacuuming as in a hostel. Stained glass as our therapy.
>>
>> Suzanne
>> --
>> ~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>
>>
>----
>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
>----
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 04:56:30 1998
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X-Path: one.net!kleeman
From: one.net!kleeman
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: suzanne de tulsa's missive*not glass*
Date: Thu Nov 19 04:21:28 1998
Message-ID: <1998Nov20.15728.0>
Precedence: bulk

brian
understanding we are all mothers, who can sleep with six kids, a dog, and a
husband in a twin bed,
it sounds to me like you have room for about 22 of us !! !
right, ladies?
debbie
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Shepherd <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
To: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>; glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, November 19, 1998 6:34 AM
Subject: Re: suzanne de tulsa's missive


>Elisabeth!
>
>I hope you will bring all your run away moonlighting mothers to Cornwall
for
>a few days! Ann and I would be delighted to see you all!  We can
accommodate
>two confortably and two more on matresses on the floor!
>
>Regards
>
>Brian
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
>To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
>Date: 19 November 1998 09:03
>Subject: Re: suzanne de tulsa's missive
>
>
>>
>>....Or a home for run-away moonlighting mothers...????
>>E 'n T in UK
>>
>>> >  When you run away to England, can I go with you?  However, I am going
>to pass
>>> > > on the class that advocates soldering naked in the moonlight.
>>> > >
>>>
>>>
>>> Wonder if we could talk Elisabeth into running a home for runaway
>>> Mothers? ;o) Kind of a rest home type thing,  we could actually take
>>> turns cooking, vacuuming as in a hostel. Stained glass as our therapy.
>>>
>>> Suzanne
>>> --
>>> ~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
>>> ----
>>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>>
>>>
>>----
>>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
>>----
>>----
>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 05:15:47 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon
From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Glass Art Site
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 07:24:46 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.122446.0>
Precedence: bulk

Thanks a lot Lee, now I'll be late to work!  Beautiful!
Brenda

<< Just bumped into this site, and this artist.  It is a "how is it done"
 wonder.  WOW!  
 
 Thought others would enjoy also.
 
 http://www.njmgallery.com/pages/t_sand.html >>
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 05:27:54 1998
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X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep
From: "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
To: "Charles Warner" <charles@warner-criv.com>, "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: FITTER RINGS-where to see
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:12:55 -0000
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.121255.0>
Precedence: bulk

Something else not available through stained glass suppliers in this
country!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Warner <charles@warner-criv.com>
To: bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Date: 18 November 1998 19:04
Subject: Re: FITTER RINGS-where to see


>>A fitter is actually a fitter ring, which is a brass ring with a 2-1/4,
>3-1/4
>>or 4 inch opening that is used in place of a vase cap to fit around the
>socket
>>in lamps such as goosenecks or torchiers.  If you have a Warner catalog,
>they
>>are shown on page 122.    The fixture that it's used on would have to have
>>screws around the socket and you would tighten the screws down on the
>outside
>>of the fitter ring to hold the shade in place
>
>To see a brief description and illustration of the fitter rings go to
>http://www.warner-criv.com/product.asp?pf%5Fid=3663%2D20
>
>Charles Warner
>Warner-Crivellaro
>
>----
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 05:54:53 1998
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From: "Vic LaGreca" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Thanks for explaining English method
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:20:07 -0500
Message-ID: <19981119131638.DPNG9138@vic>
Precedence: bulk

I have a small light box already, I believe (it is not here) it's about
16x24" and fits the size glass that I have in stock.

There are large blocks of time between working on projects for me so the
pattern method has been convenient.  I am able to keep track of the pieces
and keep the pattern in perspective.  

Also, I have been sidetracked with sand carving/etching and am in the
process of deciding what style of large light box I need.

A light box that is standing, like an artist's easel, would work well for
viewing larger panels of carved pieces.  This style would be easy to build
but I don't think this design will work for marking patterns on stained
glass. Unless (just thinking out loud) I incorporate an adjustable shelf.

As always the groups help is appreciated.

Ciao

Vic

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 06:23:28 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Glass Art Site
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:43:39 -0500
Message-ID: <199811191347.IAA06328@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

>Just bumped into this site, and this artist.  It is a "how is it done"
>wonder.  WOW!  
>
>Thought others would enjoy also.
>
>http://www.njmgallery.com/pages/t_sand.html
>
>Lee Boe


WOW is right!! Thanks!
Suzy/Suzanne
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 07:25:04 1998
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X-Path: mwt.net!alcamoz
From: "len alcamo" <alcamoz@mwt.net>
To: <glass@intrastar.net>, <glass@bungi.com>, <JKSinrod@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: English method
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 20:05:09 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.1459.0>
Precedence: bulk

Bob, I almost spilled coffee on myself when I read this one. Before I tak=
e
the time to respond could you tell me where this was forwarded from or
include the complete text. That would help me to understand your reply wh=
ich
at this point leaves me me confused unless you are refering to a pro as o=
ne
person who does all or most of the production steps as opposed to a
commercial studio doing large scale commissions.

Len

Subject: Fwd: English method


>>>. Light box cutting is only for pro's,
> where time is more important than accuracy.<<
>
>Not true, at least IMNSHO. Accuracy is the key to saving time. Most
>"pros" cut on a light box because they can see the grain/pattern of
>the glass, save time and actually do a more accurate job of cutting
>than with patterns. Beginners are often taught "German" cutting with
>patterns to get them started and then switched to light cutting when
>they are familiar with cutting and can produce the control necessary.
>
>
>With practice, a rather dark piece of glass can be cut on a light
>table. Unless absolutely necessary (like with mirror) I will select
>another piece of glass rather than not light cut. This game is all
>about transmitting and refracting light and so there has to be a very
>good reason to use glass that will not light cut.
>
>IMO, the terms English and German are misleading when it comes to
>cutting glass.
>
>Bob
>
>____
>Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
>Want to talk glass? S=FCbscribe E-mail list:  glass@intrastar.net
>

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 07:54:30 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: suzanne de tulsa's missive
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:10:07 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.3107.0>
References: <<199811190755.HAA20431@saturn.nildram.co.uk>>
Precedence: bulk

> ....Or a home for run-away moonlighting mothers...????
> E 'n T in UK
> 

That'll work for me! ;o)

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
----
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 08:03:48 1998
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X-Path: netcom.ca!shmilly
From: bill <shmilly@netcom.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: pattern....african violets
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:34:02 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19981119093402.007ae510@popd.netcom.ca>
Precedence: bulk

hi everybody!.......i am looking to find a pattern that contains african
violets....i am looking to make a panel for a dear friend of mine
(unfortunately she is not well these days)with this flower design in hopes
of cheering her up.....i have limited skills (but don't mind a
challenge!)in both copper foil and leaded designs but will alter the design
to suit my needs.........all input will be greatly appreciate!!........i am
also looking for a good "homemade recipe" for cleaning stained glass...i
find a lot of times the glass i purchase from some stained glass stores has
an accumulation of dust and dirt that seems to have been there since time
began.....(i find it unusual that even though the glass may be "old stock",
they have no problem selling it at "today's" prices!)......anyway i like to
give my glass a real good cleaning before cutting and grinding (as i am
sure you all do) and was wondering what i could make up on my own without
buying commercial glass cleaners.......i hear that anything with ammonia is
not good, is this true?......once again, thanks to all for you time in
answering my requests.........Bill

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 08:34:48 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: daver!one.net!kleeman@ix.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: suzanne de tulsa's missive*not glass*
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:14:53 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.31453.0>
References: <<1998Nov20.15728.0>>
Precedence: bulk

> brian
> understanding we are all mothers, who can sleep with six kids, a dog, and a
> husband in a twin bed,
> it sounds to me like you have room for about 22 of us !! !
> right, ladies?
> debbie

Last I saw what was left me, I think I can manage to sleep with 3
inches, but only on my side! ;o)

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
----
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 08:35:57 1998
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X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep
From: "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
To: <daver!one.net!kleeman@mailhost.dircon.co.uk>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: suzanne de tulsa's missive*not glass*
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:41:15 -0000
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.144115.0>
Precedence: bulk

Debbie!

Ok! But I'm first in the queue for the bathroom!

Regards Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: daver!one.net!kleeman <daver!one.net!kleeman>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: 19 November 1998 13:00
Subject: Re: suzanne de tulsa's missive*not glass*


>brian
>understanding we are all mothers, who can sleep with six kids, a dog, and a
>husband in a twin bed,
>it sounds to me like you have room for about 22 of us !! !
>right, ladies?
>debbie
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Brian Shepherd <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
>To: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>; glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
>Date: Thursday, November 19, 1998 6:34 AM
>Subject: Re: suzanne de tulsa's missive
>
>
>>Elisabeth!
>>
>>I hope you will bring all your run away moonlighting mothers to Cornwall
>for
>>a few days! Ann and I would be delighted to see you all!  We can
>accommodate
>>two confortably and two more on matresses on the floor!
>>
>>Regards
>>
>>Brian
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
>>To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
>>Date: 19 November 1998 09:03
>>Subject: Re: suzanne de tulsa's missive
>>
>>
>>>
>>>....Or a home for run-away moonlighting mothers...????
>>>E 'n T in UK
>>>
>>>> >  When you run away to England, can I go with you?  However, I am
going
>>to pass
>>>> > > on the class that advocates soldering naked in the moonlight.
>>>> > >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Wonder if we could talk Elisabeth into running a home for runaway
>>>> Mothers? ;o) Kind of a rest home type thing,  we could actually take
>>>> turns cooking, vacuuming as in a hostel. Stained glass as our therapy.
>>>>
>>>> Suzanne
>>>> --
>>>> ~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
>>>> ----
>>>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>>>
>>>>
>>>----
>>>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>>>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>>>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
>>>----
>>>----
>>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>
>>----
>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

----
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 08:52:42 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr
From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: suzanne de tulsa's missive and our escape plan
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:16:51 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.151651.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 11/19/98 6:25:27 AM Eastern Standard Time,
bshep@dircon.co.uk writes:

> Elisabeth!
>  
>  I hope you will bring all your run away moonlighting mothers to Cornwall
for
>  a few days! Ann and I would be delighted to see you all!  We can
accommodate
>  two confortably and two more on matresses on the floor!
>  
>  Regards

Hey Suzanne, 

Look!!!  We are getting invites from people who will shelter us during our
escape from family life.  Pack your tools (it appears clothes are optional)
and I'll meet you at the airport. 

Pat

ps.  We need to pick up Patrick on our way, I think he would be willing to go
too.
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 09:12:00 1998
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: suzanne de tulsa's missive
Date: Thu Nov 19 06:54:37 1998
Message-ID: <1998Nov20.43037.0>
Precedence: bulk

What about us poor overworked fathers?????
No one ever thinks of us!!!
We get to stay up all night during labor in case "mom" needs anything.
But does mom even share her drugs???

Maybe some of us dads would like to become run-away moonlighting
fathers.

Vic
Founder of the Equal Drugs for Expectant Fathers Movement. 

PS Regarding Bio #71: What is a stationery cupboard?


		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Toby [mailto:toby@northlights.co.uk]
		Sent:	Thursday, November 19, 1998 2:47 AM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	Re: suzanne de tulsa's missive





		....Or a home for run-away moonlighting mothers...????
		E 'n T in UK
				> >  When you run away to England, can I
go with you?  However, I am going to pass
				> > > on the class that advocates
soldering naked in the moonlight.
				> > >
			> 
			> 
			> Wonder if we could talk Elisabeth into running
a home for runaway
			> Mothers? ;o) Kind of a rest home type thing,
we could actually take
			> turns cooking, vacuuming as in a hostel.
Stained glass as our therapy.
			> 
			> Suzanne
			> -- 
				> ~The most wasted day of all is that on
which you have not laughed~
			> ----
			> For subscription changes, please mail to:
glass-request@bungi.com <mailto:glass-request@bungi.com> 
			> To send to the list,      please mail to:
glass@bungi.com <mailto:glass@bungi.com> 
			> Archives available at
http://www.bungi.com/glass <http://www.bungi.com/glass> 
			> 
			> 
		----
		As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of
mind"
		North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
	
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
<http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm>  
		----
		----
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 09:12:48 1998
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X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep
From: "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: No husbands though!
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:19:11 -0000
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.151911.0>
Precedence: bulk

It's OK with me but I'm first in the queue for the bathroom in the morning!

Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: daver!one.net!kleeman <daver!one.net!kleeman>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: 19 November 1998 13:00
Subject: Re: suzanne de tulsa's missive*not glass*


>brian
>understanding we are all mothers, who can sleep with six kids, a dog, and a
>husband in a twin bed,
>it sounds to me like you have room for about 22 of us !! !
>right, ladies?
>debbie
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Brian Shepherd <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
>To: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>; glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
>Date: Thursday, November 19, 1998 6:34 AM
>Subject: Re: suzanne de tulsa's missive
>
>
>>Elisabeth!
>>
>>I hope you will bring all your run away moonlighting mothers to Cornwall
>for
>>a few days! Ann and I would be delighted to see you all!  We can
>accommodate
>>two confortably and two more on matresses on the floor!
>>
>>Regards
>>
>>Brian
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
>>To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
>>Date: 19 November 1998 09:03
>>Subject: Re: suzanne de tulsa's missive
>>
>>
>>>
>>>....Or a home for run-away moonlighting mothers...????
>>>E 'n T in UK
>>>
>>>> >  When you run away to England, can I go with you?  However, I am
going
>>to pass
>>>> > > on the class that advocates soldering naked in the moonlight.
>>>> > >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Wonder if we could talk Elisabeth into running a home for runaway
>>>> Mothers? ;o) Kind of a rest home type thing,  we could actually take
>>>> turns cooking, vacuuming as in a hostel. Stained glass as our therapy.
>>>>
>>>> Suzanne
>>>> --
>>>> ~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
>>>> ----
>>>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>>>
>>>>
>>>----
>>>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>>>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>>>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
>>>----
>>>----
>>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>
>>----
>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

----
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 09:19:25 1998
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@intrastar.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: pattern....african violets
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:25:56 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.42556.0>
References: <<3.0.6.32.19981119093402.007ae510@popd.netcom.ca>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Bill

Sorry I cant help with the african violets. I hope your friend regains
her health soon.

I have always washed my glass with liquid dishwashing soap and a green
scrubber sponge before cutting.  Just like my dishes.  

I dont know about the ammonia.  I dont know why it would be bad for
glass...maybe some of the specialty glasses?

You should see some of my glass...my little studio can get trashed
pretty quickly...when I am making stones...I get the cement *everywhere*
Some of my glass is brand new and dust city.  Some of my glass is 15 yrs
old and clean as a whistle...Their value hasnt changed. Some is just
more out of the way.  

Sounds like your retailer is alot like me.  I have better things to do
than dust.

Good luck with your violets.

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
----
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 09:26:58 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: glass beaded fringe?
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:13:13 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.41313.0>
References: <<199811191006_MC2-60CD-AACB@compuserve.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Christie A. Wood wrote:
> 
> I was assuming you would be doing the beading yourself.
> The way I was assuming it, you get the thin gauge copper
> wire and string your beads on it, then solder the open end
> onto your border.
> 
> Christie A. Wood
> Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
> P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903


I have thought about it...the way I want it, I think would take me close
to an eternity to do myself considering the number of beads needed. 
Thought about giving some of the beading to my daugher as a project, and
we could work on it together.  She would really love to be a part of it,
we'll see. Lot's of time. 

The beaded fringe that I found (thanks to Bob) in the Whittemore-Durgin
catalog, is only in black or gold...neither of which interest me... I
want vibrant contrasting colors.

I would like to do a panel that is like a draped indian blanket using
multi textured glasses, with bright colors, beaded fringe for the fringe
of the blanket.  I dont know that this is really a project I can handle
right now with my current skills....guess this is my challenge/rowth
project. (one of them)  What I see in my head looks beautiful...making
it happen is another thing.  Some of the glass that I would like to
use...is very thick and wavy.(sorry I really need/want to learn more
about glass all by itself) I dont know the names of all the different
glasses and textures, so may have a hard time expressing what it is I
really want.  Think of a blanket that is bunched up and folded over.

I have seen a yough...glass that I think would be cool...I have *never*
cut a peice of glass like that..  Can it be copper foiled????

Anyway, the completion of that idea will obviously be a rewarding
learning experience to say the least, regardless of the success.  

Any advice or ideas for me are welcome.

Thanks

Suzanne, Tulsa
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 09:45:13 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: mailbox1 <mailbox1@ESSGlasgow.org.uk>
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Subject: Re: Craft fairs
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:47:58 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.44758.0>
References: <<199811190854.IAA19558@mx1.rmplc.co.uk>>
Precedence: bulk

Yes, but on the other side of the coin, you have to remember, they may
only have $2 in their pocket/purse.  Maybe a compliment is all they can
afford.  I know.  I went to the Tulsa Arts and Crafts show to meet a
fellow Bungian recently.  I literally had $2.  Lots of stuff there that
I would have purchased if I was in a bit of a different financial spot.
This time last year I would have spent alot of money there.
There were some **$3** glass earrings that were so cool!  If I hadnt
been broke I would have cleaned her out!  She sells them so cheap
because her 8 yr old daughter makes them.  If she repriced them at $15 I
bet she would have sold more.

Suzanne 



> Yes I get a bit anoyed at craft fairs where a constant stream of people 
> tell you "your pieces are lovely - very nice etc." spend 20 minutes 
> looking at my catalogue of previous work AND THEN WALKAWAY WITHOUT BUYING.
> 
> Dianne wrote
> 
> >At the last one, a few weeks ago, several people stopped by my table and told
> >me I had the best table there but I only made one sell all day.   :(    
> 
> Phil

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 09:52:24 1998
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To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Craft Fairs
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:36:31 EST
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In a message dated 98-11-19 01:57:00 EST, SUZIEQ1@prodigy.net writes:

<< 
 >I did sell two panels, one of a sunflower and the other of a seashell
 which
 >amounted to $75 for the both.  These were my first pieces that I had made
 >and were not that very good.
 >
 >It will be along time before I do another craft fair.
 >
 >Soured on craft shows,
 >Sandy >>



Yes I get a bit anoyed at craft fairs where a constant stream of people 
tell you "your pieces are lovely - very nice etc." spend 20 minutes 
looking at my catalogue of previous work AND THEN WALKAWAY WITHOUT BUYING.

Dianne wrote

>At the last one, a few weeks ago, several people stopped by my table and told
>me I had the best table there but I only made one sell all day.   :(    

Phil
----




Somehow I don't feel so bad, knowing I'm not the only one who doesn't do good
at craft fairs. 

I've done much better at sci fi con, of all places. I even won an award at the
last con. I guess I'll stick to that from now on. 

Dianne
 Jacksonville, FL
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 10:17:42 1998
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From: one.net!kleeman
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: pattern....african violets
Date: Thu Nov 19 08:49:54 1998
Message-ID: <1998Nov20.62554.0>
Precedence: bulk

bill
you can clean the glass with any glass cleaner- have been doing it for nine
years
is defense of those of us that own retail supply studios, most of the glass
i receive from my supplier is dirty and dusty--i do not take the time to
clean each piece as i put it in the bins, but do try to clean it as i cut it
up into square footage
so even though it looks like we are making a large profit on old glass, we
are just to lazy to clean it ! ! --but really, this in no way indicates how
old the glass is--when i go to wissmach and pick up my glass, it is so dirty
i hardly want to put it in my van, not how old it is
thanx
debbie
-----Original Message-----
From: bill <shmilly@netcom.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, November 19, 1998 11:24 AM
Subject: pattern....african violets


>hi everybody!.......i am looking to find a pattern that contains african
>violets....i am looking to make a panel for a dear friend of mine
>(unfortunately she is not well these days)with this flower design in hopes
>of cheering her up.....i have limited skills (but don't mind a
>challenge!)in both copper foil and leaded designs but will alter the design
>to suit my needs.........all input will be greatly appreciate!!........i am
>also looking for a good "homemade recipe" for cleaning stained glass...i
>find a lot of times the glass i purchase from some stained glass stores has
>an accumulation of dust and dirt that seems to have been there since time
>began.....(i find it unusual that even though the glass may be "old stock",
>they have no problem selling it at "today's" prices!)......anyway i like to
>give my glass a real good cleaning before cutting and grinding (as i am
>sure you all do) and was wondering what i could make up on my own without
>buying commercial glass cleaners.......i hear that anything with ammonia is
>not good, is this true?......once again, thanks to all for you time in
>answering my requests.........Bill
>
>----
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 10:20:32 1998
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Steve Wernecke <wernecke@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Question for Weller 100 lovers
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:11:29 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.11129.0>
References: <<3.0.3.32.19981118153849.00da4100@popd.ix.netcom.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Steve:  Try changing the tip.  I have used my Weller100 for about eight
years now and only last year did I change the tip.  Made it into a new
iron.  PJ

On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Steve Wernecke wrote:

> I'm having trouble getting my Weller 100 not to melt lead came.  I'm using
> 60/40 and have tried two tip sizes.  Even a brief and light touch is liable
> to zap the came edge.  My iron is getting on in years.  Does anyone know if
> these guys get hotter before they fail?  I'd buy a temperature control, but
> I've been told this will just fight with the Weller's internal thermostat.
> TIA for any advice.
> 
> Steve
> ----
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> 

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 10:50:18 1998
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From: "Scott ." <scottjf55@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: 800 degree tip
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 07:45:29 PST
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.154529.0>
Precedence: bulk


  Sorry to burst your bubble but an 800 degree tip would not even on a 
bad day zap your lead like you described.  Even a 600 degree tip in that 
iron you described would zap the lead.  Dont waste your money on a 700, 
until you have tried it.  
Scott


********************
ICQ# 19748244

Scott's Stained Glass Technical Corner
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Square/8791

Proud member of:

Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

Join our live glass chat! 
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html 


______________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 10:52:28 1998
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'bill'" <shmilly@netcom.ca>, "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: pattern....african violets
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:40:28 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.74028.0>
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Hi Bill,

Don't have any patterns but check out these web pages and you may be able to com up with something.

Linda

http://www.netusa1.net/~klanham/photos.html
http://www.avsa.org/plants/

 
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 11:18:54 1998
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From: "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Enjoy!
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:19:01 -0000
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Vic!

I do sympathise really but think about the great time you'll have while
she's away - poker nights with the boys, watching the game on TV, bowling -
I know what goes on in America - I've seen The Flintstones!

There's that language problem again! A stationery cupboard is a storage
facility where in we keep office consumables such as copier paper, envelopes
etc etc.

Regards

Brian

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 11:21:26 1998
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From: "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
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Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: suzanne de tulsa's missive
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:53:46 -0000
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Vic!

I can sympathise but think about the great time you will have while your
wife's away! Poker nights, 'the game', bowling - I've watched the
Flintstones!

There's that language barrier again! A stationery cupboard is where we keep
the stock of paper, envelopes and other office consumables! It had two
doors - one in Ann'e office and one in mine!

Regards

Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano <daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: 19 November 1998 17:22
Subject: RE: suzanne de tulsa's missive


>What about us poor overworked fathers?????
>No one ever thinks of us!!!
>We get to stay up all night during labor in case "mom" needs anything.
>But does mom even share her drugs???
>
>Maybe some of us dads would like to become run-away moonlighting
>fathers.
>
>Vic
>Founder of the Equal Drugs for Expectant Fathers Movement.
>
>PS Regarding Bio #71: What is a stationery cupboard?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Toby [mailto:toby@northlights.co.uk]
> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 1998 2:47 AM
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: suzanne de tulsa's missive
>
>
>
>
>
> ....Or a home for run-away moonlighting mothers...????
> E 'n T in UK
> > >  When you run away to England, can I
>go with you?  However, I am going to pass
> > > > on the class that advocates
>soldering naked in the moonlight.
> > > >
> >
> >
> > Wonder if we could talk Elisabeth into running
>a home for runaway
> > Mothers? ;o) Kind of a rest home type thing,
>we could actually take
> > turns cooking, vacuuming as in a hostel.
>Stained glass as our therapy.
> >
> > Suzanne
> > --
> > ~The most wasted day of all is that on
>which you have not laughed~
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to:
>glass-request@bungi.com <mailto:glass-request@bungi.com>
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>glass@bungi.com <mailto:glass@bungi.com>
> > Archives available at
>http://www.bungi.com/glass <http://www.bungi.com/glass>
> >
> >
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of
>mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>
>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
><http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm>
> ----
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 11:48:10 1998
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'Suzanne'" <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: glass beaded fringe?
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:07:30 -0500
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Suzzane,

that fringe I sent you earlier can be viewed in use at:

http://www.mainelyshades.com/kits.html

It it does not have any wire in it, why couldn't you secure it with your own wire loops?

Linda
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 12:24:31 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Glass beaded fringe & drapery glass
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:44:26 -0500
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Message text written by Suzanne:
>Some of the glass that I would like to
use...is very thick and wavy.(sorry I really need/want to learn more
about glass all by itself) I dont know the names of all the different
glasses and textures, so may have a hard time expressing what it is I
really want.  Think of a blanket that is bunched up and folded over.

I have seen a yough...glass that I think would be cool...I have *never*
cut a peice of glass like that..  Can it be copper foiled????>

Yes...that's generically called "drapery glass" because of all the
neat folds and creases.  Youghiogheny's cateloging has it as
a Ripple or R added to the end of the part id.  Uroborus Glass
also makes excellent drapery glass.  I use both.  Cutting drapery
glass is quite tricky.  Make sure you get extra, as about 25% of
the pieces will no cut correctly the first time.  As to copper foiling,
yes.  You can copper foil these.  One technique to help with the
foiling is to bevel grind the drapery glass so that you are actually
foiling a fairly even part of the glass.  Otherwise you will have
extreme valleys where the foil will split.  Messy looking.  I use a
lamp beveled grinding bit for drapery glass, but have also just
held the glass at a 45 degree angle to get some of the mountains
to become hillsides.

<Anyway, the completion of that idea will obviously be a rewarding
learning experience to say the least, regardless of the success.  =

Any advice or ideas for me are welcome.<

As to the beaded fringe, why not just solder a line of loops to the botto=
m
of the shade, and then string the bead lines to that?

Like   UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
all around?  Best wishes!

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 12:44:17 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Safety dealing with cement dust
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:44:18 -0500
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Message text written by Suzanne
>You should see some of my glass...my little studio can get trashed
pretty quickly...when I am making stones...I get the cement *everywhere*<=


One VERY good reason to always wear dust masks if not
full respirators when mixing the cement.  No one wants cement
in their lungs.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 12:49:43 1998
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From: Bob the Dinosaur <shyguy@vdot.net>
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Subject: To stretch or not to stretch (long)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:56:12 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.95612.0>
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Precedence: bulk

I had been taught to stretch lead came for two reasons:
1) to straighten out any bends or kinks caused by handling or shipping
  and 
2) To 'work harden' the soft came. Many years ago as someone involved in
mechanical engineering, I learned about the 'modulous of elasticity' and
other metalurgical concepts. Metal will stretch, and return to original
length, as tension is applied and released, just like a rubber band.
This is a predictable event, with a fixed ratio of load to stretch. That
is if you put x number of pounds of load on a metal rod, it will strect
a y amount. Take the load off, and it will return to it's original
length. Put 2x pound of load , it will stretch 2y amount. This ratio is
linear up to the metals 'yield point', where the metal becomes 'plastic'
and will stretch more than y per increase in x. Like Silly Putty, or
clay. If you increase the load to point of failure, the broken pieces
when measured, will be longer than the original piece. If you remove the
load after the yield point, but before failure, the structure of the
metal will have changed, and the material will be harder (and mostly
stronger) than it was orginally.
Lead, as bought, is 'floppy' and soft. After stretching, it is more
rigid and hard. (Don't go there, no naked soldering under the moon or
tutu jokes please). 
The point of this post, you may ask, after reading through a lot of
semi-technical drivel? I received a new catalog yesterday, and thumbing
through, I came to the lead vise and 'came stretcher' part. I was
thinking of buying a stretcher, as I have not found the right point to
stop between 'yield point' and tensile failure of various lead profiles
and have landed on my butt (no silicone,BTW, for all you Chicago Hope
fans) when the came broke. In the catalog, there was a disclaimer about
only pulling the came enough to straighten the came, and not to stretch
the lead as it would weaken it???
Curious, why not call it a came straightener, instead of a stretcher?
Should I not work the lead? Has the alloy changed since I learned (4yrs
ago?).
Or is this a disclaimer so us large people with poor major muscle
control don't sue the came manufacturers when we land on our
non-silicone enhanced butts in a trash can??? 
           Any input from those who have been doing more lead work than
this relatively newbie part-timer??? 
-- 
Adults are obsolete children
		Theodore Geisel
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 13:03:52 1998
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X-Path: bc.sympatico.ca!tuka
From: tuka@bc.sympatico.ca
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: 800 degree tip
Summary: Authenticated sender is <a1a84211@mail.bctel.ca>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:10:11 +0000
Message-ID: <199811191905.LAA18835@mail1.bctel.ca>
Precedence: bulk

>   Sorry to burst your bubble but an 800 degree tip would not even on a 
> bad day zap your lead like you described.  Even a 600 degree tip in that 
> iron you described would zap the lead.  Dont waste your money on a 700, 
> until you have tried it.  
> Scott
 
I use a 700 degree tip in my Weller 100 all the time and have never 
had a problem.  I don't agree that its a waste of money.

Shiela

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 13:16:54 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: glass beaded fringe?
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:29:24 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.82924.0>
References: <<01BE13BD.9136FFC0.lcbell@memach.com>>
Precedence: bulk

> It it does not have any wire in it, why couldn't you secure it with your own wire loops?
> 


I figure this is going to be an expensive project, that I will have to
stretch out each purchase! I imagine I will ruin some of the fringe in
my attempts to attach it, so will need alot more than what the panel
will actually end up with attached for.
 Anyway.  I figured (without ever seeing the fringe in person, mind you)
that maybe there is a way for me to weave in some fine copper/brass
whatever wire into the fringe and then attach that to a bit heavier
gauge wire that will then be attached to the panel.

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 13:31:28 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: glass beaded fringe?
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:42:40 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.84240.0>
References: <<01BE13D0.42174860.lcbell@memach.com>>
Precedence: bulk

> Suzanne, I looked at the prices AFTER I sent you the two web pages. A >bit pricey at $40-$75 a yard. This is going to be a great panel.
> 
> Linda

It will all be purchased in bits and peices I believe. ;o)  The glass I
have in mind isnt exactly cheap either!  Maybe I should just commission
this out to one of you(so I dont ruin it)! lol...like I could afford
that! 
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 13:46:23 1998
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X-Path: thezone.net!robertcrane
From: robert crane <robertcrane@thezone.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: reference material
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:40:03 -0330
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.11523.0>
References: <<1998Apr17.19136.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I have done a little glass etching and really like it. I am too far east and north
to attend 'etching seminars' but would really like to acquire more information on
etching. The low canadian dollar makes it prohibitive to purchase new material, so
I would like to request that any bungi who has books or videoes on glass etching
and would like to sell - rent - or trade- please drop me a note. Thanks in
anticipation.

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 13:53:25 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano@ix.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: suzanne de tulsa's missive
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:16:55 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.81655.0>
References: <<1998Nov20.43037.0>>
Precedence: bulk

> What about us poor overworked fathers?????
> No one ever thinks of us!!!
> We get to stay up all night during labor in case "mom" needs anything.
> But does mom even share her drugs???
> 


Some advice...about women and labor...and our sharing during that
*special* time.  Dont go there.

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 14:17:18 1998
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From: Goldpaws <gmanning@banet.net>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Internet Glass Class_Howard
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:08:47 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.10847.0>
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I have sent an E-Mail to Howard about the Glass Class.
No, response.
Howard did you get?
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 14:20:47 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Wow
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:49:00 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.8490.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hmmmm....may have to come up with some other ideas,  Or sell something!
Or get a real job!
                               6" Beaded Fringe to decorate any
Victorian lampshade. Available in
                               Onyx-#2034, Iridescent-#2035, or
Green/Red/Gold-#2033 

                               6" long x 5 yards
                               6" long x 1 yd (full yards only) 
                                                                                  
$339.50/pkg
                                                                                   
$67.90/yd 
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 14:28:18 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.net!SUZIEQ1
From: "Sandra I Gustafson" <SUZIEQ1@prodigy.net>
To: <PDRUSS@aol.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Craft Fairs
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:31:39 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.103139.0>
Precedence: bulk

Si-fi conferance?  What in heavns name did you sell there?
Being curious,
Sandy from Athens, GA  (another Swede).
Remember: Be kind to everyone, because, everyone is having a hard time.
-----Original Message-----
From: PDRUSS@aol.com <PDRUSS@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, November 19, 1998 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: Craft Fairs


>In a message dated 98-11-19 01:57:00 EST, SUZIEQ1@prodigy.net writes:
>
><<
> >I did sell two panels, one of a sunflower and the other of a seashell
> which
> >amounted to $75 for the both.  These were my first pieces that I had made
> >and were not that very good.
> >
> >It will be along time before I do another craft fair.
> >
> >Soured on craft shows,
> >Sandy >>
>
>
>
>Yes I get a bit anoyed at craft fairs where a constant stream of people
>tell you "your pieces are lovely - very nice etc." spend 20 minutes
>looking at my catalogue of previous work AND THEN WALKAWAY WITHOUT BUYING.
>
>Dianne wrote
>
>>At the last one, a few weeks ago, several people stopped by my table and
told
>>me I had the best table there but I only made one sell all day.

>
>Phil
>----
>
>
>
>
>Somehow I don't feel so bad, knowing I'm not the only one who doesn't do
good
>at craft fairs.
>
>I've done much better at sci fi con, of all places. I even won an award at
the
>last con. I guess I'll stick to that from now on.
>
>Dianne
> Jacksonville, FL
>----
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 14:36:45 1998
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charles_Spitzer
From: "Charles Spitzer" <Charles_Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: "glass" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Fw: To stretch or not to stretch (long)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:25:14 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.72514.0>
Precedence: bulk

if you stretch came very slowly and watch it closely, you'll notice, just
before the point where it snaps and you land on the proverbial posterior,
that it turns from shiny to non-shiny and sort of grainy. this is caused by
parts of it starting to get microcracks. this is really weak, and if you
have stretched the came to this point, yes, it would be weaker as some
stretched not quite so much.

btw: you can stretch lead safely and without help. use 2 vice grips. clamp
one VG on one end of a 6' piece of came so that it's perpendicular to the
came, and the other VG on the other end so that it is in line with the came.
step on the perpendicular vice grip. pull up on the other one.

regards,
charlie
phoenix, az
-----Original Message-----
From: shyguy@vdot.net <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, November 19, 1998 12:56 PM
Subject: To stretch or not to stretch (long)


>I had been taught to stretch lead came for two reasons:
>1) to straighten out any bends or kinks caused by handling or shipping
>  and
>2) To 'work harden' the soft came. Many years ago as someone involved in
>mechanical engineering, I learned about the 'modulous of elasticity' and
>other metalurgical concepts. Metal will stretch, and return to original
>length, as tension is applied and released, just like a rubber band.
>This is a predictable event, with a fixed ratio of load to stretch. That
>is if you put x number of pounds of load on a metal rod, it will strect
>a y amount. Take the load off, and it will return to it's original
>length. Put 2x pound of load , it will stretch 2y amount. This ratio is
>linear up to the metals 'yield point', where the metal becomes 'plastic'
>and will stretch more than y per increase in x. Like Silly Putty, or
>clay. If you increase the load to point of failure, the broken pieces
>when measured, will be longer than the original piece. If you remove the
>load after the yield point, but before failure, the structure of the
>metal will have changed, and the material will be harder (and mostly
>stronger) than it was orginally.
>Lead, as bought, is 'floppy' and soft. After stretching, it is more
>rigid and hard. (Don't go there, no naked soldering under the moon or
>tutu jokes please).
>The point of this post, you may ask, after reading through a lot of
>semi-technical drivel? I received a new catalog yesterday, and thumbing
>through, I came to the lead vise and 'came stretcher' part. I was
>thinking of buying a stretcher, as I have not found the right point to
>stop between 'yield point' and tensile failure of various lead profiles
>and have landed on my butt (no silicone,BTW, for all you Chicago Hope
>fans) when the came broke. In the catalog, there was a disclaimer about
>only pulling the came enough to straighten the came, and not to stretch
>the lead as it would weaken it???
>Curious, why not call it a came straightener, instead of a stretcher?
>Should I not work the lead? Has the alloy changed since I learned (4yrs
>ago?).
>Or is this a disclaimer so us large people with poor major muscle
>control don't sue the came manufacturers when we land on our
>non-silicone enhanced butts in a trash can???
>           Any input from those who have been doing more lead work than
>this relatively newbie part-timer???
>--
>Adults are obsolete children
> Theodore Geisel
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 15:03:05 1998
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From: "Charles Spitzer" <Charles_Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: "glass" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Fw: Safety dealing with cement dust
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:11:10 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.71110.0>
Precedence: bulk

this is a good point that everyone should take to heart! cement is very
alkaline, and is really bad for your lungs, even if you could cough out all
the dust the lining of you're lungs is going to be very adversely affected.

regards,
charlie
phx, az
-----Original Message-----
From: Ensembles@compuserve.com <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, November 19, 1998 11:44 AM
Subject: Safety dealing with cement dust


>Message text written by Suzanne
>>You should see some of my glass...my little studio can get trashed
>pretty quickly...when I am making stones...I get the cement *everywhere*<=
>
>
>One VERY good reason to always wear dust masks if not
>full respirators when mixing the cement.  No one wants cement
>in their lungs.
>
>Christie A. Wood
>Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
>P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903


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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 15:24:07 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: glass beaded fringe?
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:29:37, -0500
Message-ID: <199811192229.RAA10820@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>> Anyway.  I figured (without ever seeing the fringe in person, mind 
you)
that maybe there is a way for me to weave in some fine copper/brass
whatever wire into the fringe and then attach that to a bit heavier
gauge wire that will then be attached to the panel.

Suzanne<<

I have repaired several old lamps that had a beaded fringe. In each 
case the fringe was glued to the inside lower edge with no wire 
involved.

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Want to talk glass? Sübscribe E-mail list:  glass@intrastar.net
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 18:24:33 1998
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X-Path: hotmail.com!scottjf55
From: "Scott ." <scottjf55@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: 800 degree tip clarify
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:01:38 PST
Message-ID: <1998Nov20.2138.0>
Precedence: bulk

Sheila,  We got our messages mixed up.  I do agree the 700 is a very 
valuable tip to have , I was talking about the iron that was 
malfunctioning.  See if the iron is shot and is at 1000 degrees, 
changing from an 800 to a 700 is not going to make a difference, it will 
still get to 1000 degrees.  Sorry for the mixup!

Scott *sm*


********************
ICQ# 19748244

Scott's Stained Glass Technical Corner
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Square/8791

Proud member of:

Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

Join our live glass chat! 
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html 


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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 18:51:24 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: all <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Computer woes
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:03:43 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.16343.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone-

The good news is that I can type all the way across the page like other
real folks!  The bad news is that I've killed two computers this week and=

in the process lost my address book and URL's for all your
websites.....waaahhhh!  Would everyone on my mailing list drop me a quick=

line with addy's and web sites, please?!!!  TIA.

Best,

Dani Greer (who is not writing any more checks to the nice computer guru
this week.)
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 19:56:39 1998
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Wow
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 22:07:29 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.17729.0>
References: <<1998Nov19.8490.0>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi ,

Try getting the "Fire Mountain" bead and jewelry catalog, much less
expensive for this type of project.  1_800-423-2319
Beads, glass, gemstone, and acrylic are their specialty.  Books in the
back of the catalog on all types of beading, and the recent sale catalog
had some bead fringe already strung.

They may have a web site, Name is "Fire Mountain Gems".  Plus a search
of the 'net for 'Beads' should turn up several wholesale sources.

Good luck, sounds lovely.  

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations,

back to the cutting board, got a one day juried art show Saturday.

Suzanne wrote:
> 
> Hmmmm....may have to come up with some other ideas,  Or sell something!
> Or get a real job!
>                                6" Beaded Fringe to decorate any
> Victorian lampshade. Available in
>                                Onyx-#2034, Iridescent-#2035, or
> Green/Red/Gold-#2033
> 
>                                6" long x 5 yards
>                                6" long x 1 yd (full yards only)
> 
> $339.50/pkg
> 
> $67.90/yd
> --
> ~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 20:17:33 1998
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Wow
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 22:10:01 -0500
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P. S.

The October issue of "Lapidary Journal" is the annual bead issue.  It
may still be on the news stands there, or you may have a jeweler friend
that has one. They also have a web site.

Lee  ;-)
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 20:21:37 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:Mosfunland@aol.com" <Mosfunland@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Computer woes
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 22:44:24 -0500
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Hi Maureen-

I didn't get most of your message -
it's a constant battle, isn't it?!!  Notice
on my email that I'm getting the =3D
signs at the end of sentences still....
and this with the *latest compuserve
software.  Back to typing half-lines, =

I guess!

And, I just went to read Nadine's email
which downloaded as a file and couldn't
access it (and, of course, deleted the emails
before I could reply!)  I knew it was going to
be the week from Hell when I started Monday
morning by putting Udder Cream on my hair
instead of styling gel.

Best,

Dani
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 20:45:58 1998
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Wow & Beads
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 20:27:55 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.122755.0>
Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited
Precedence: bulk

Hi all,

I agree with Lee. I use Fire Mountain Gems and love their service and
quality. Very nice and the most inexpensive beads you will find
anywhere. Their catalog is free at their web site.

http://www.firemtn.com/

Also I might add I use the Swarovski Crystal beads for shade fringe and
it turns out beautiful. Fire Mountain also carries Czech Fire Polished
faceted beads, glass beads etc. I will never order beads through another
company I have been that satisfied with fire mountain.

See ya

Pam *sm*

--
*********************************
The Stained Glass Artists
Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director:
Advertising & Marketing


Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

Join our live glass chat!
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 21:47:11 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Wow & Beads
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:09:27 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.17927.0>
References: <<1998Nov19.122755.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Thanks Pam...that's some testimonial...

Appreciate the info!

Suzanne
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 19 22:07:01 1998
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X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet
From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>, "Bob the Dinosaur" <shyguy@vdot.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: To stretch or not to stretch (long)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:26:10 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov19.192610.0>
Precedence: bulk

Flying across the room into the drafting table when stretching lead isn't
much fun.  I conceded to not knowing the leads strength or mine (I've
busted lug nuts off wheels when changing a tire), now cut the 6 foot
strips in half so I can reach the vise to make sure its teeth have a good
grab on the lead.  If it does break I can catch my balance before I reach
the drafting table.  Someday will buy the other "half" of the stretcher
gizmo.    Karen
>Or is this a disclaimer so us large people with poor major muscle
>control don't sue the came manufacturers when we land on our
>non-silicone enhanced butts in a trash can???
>           Any input from those who have been doing more lead work than
>this relatively newbie part-timer???
>--
>Adults are obsolete children
> Theodore Geisel
>----
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 04:49:04 1998
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X-Path: one.net!kleeman
From: one.net!kleeman
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Wow
Date: Fri Nov 20 04:09:54 1998
Message-ID: <1998Nov21.14554.0>
Precedence: bulk

the number for fire mountain gems is
1/800-423-2319

-----Original Message-----
From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thursday, November 19, 1998 11:09 PM
Subject: Re: Wow


>Hi ,
>
>Try getting the "Fire Mountain" bead and jewelry catalog, much less
>expensive for this type of project.  1_800-423-2319
>Beads, glass, gemstone, and acrylic are their specialty.  Books in the
>back of the catalog on all types of beading, and the recent sale catalog
>had some bead fringe already strung.
>
>They may have a web site, Name is "Fire Mountain Gems".  Plus a search
>of the 'net for 'Beads' should turn up several wholesale sources.
>
>Good luck, sounds lovely.  
>
>Lee Boe
>Rain-Boe's Creations,
>
>back to the cutting board, got a one day juried art show Saturday.
>
>Suzanne wrote:
>> 
>> Hmmmm....may have to come up with some other ideas,  Or sell something!
>> Or get a real job!
>>                                6" Beaded Fringe to decorate any
>> Victorian lampshade. Available in
>>                                Onyx-#2034, Iridescent-#2035, or
>> Green/Red/Gold-#2033
>> 
>>                                6" long x 5 yards
>>                                6" long x 1 yd (full yards only)
>> 
>> $339.50/pkg
>> 
>> $67.90/yd
>> --
>> ~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 06:18:28 1998
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From: JKSinrod@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: 800 degree tip
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:39:10 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov20.133910.0>
Precedence: bulk

What's the hottest tip, with or without temp control, that you have used in a
weller 100?

 <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JKSinrod/sinrod.html">Sinrod Stained Glass
Studios</A> 
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 06:48:54 1998
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From: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
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Subject: Fwd: English method
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:14:12 -0500
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Hello JKSinrod,
	Can you please shed some light (pardon the pun)... Why is light box
cutting only for pro's.... ?
	I am not a pro and have recently started doing most of my patter work on a
light box and have found it to be as accurate as I am with cutting and
tracing pattern pieces.  
	It does save time (my time is valuable to me too) and I find that I am
more accurate.  It saves glass and I can see the grain better.  I can see
exactly how the piece is going to look and choose the part of the glass I
want to cut the piece from.
	What am I missing?

Barbara

. Light box cutting is only for pro's, 
> where time is more important than accuracy.
>  

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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 06:49:48 1998
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From: JKSinrod@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: To stretch or not to stretch (long)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:45:45 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov20.134545.0>
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In a message dated 11/19/98 3:51:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, shyguy@vdot.net
writes:

<< Subj:	 To stretch or not to stretch (long)
 Date:	11/19/98 3:51:25 PM Eastern Standard Time
 From:	shyguy@vdot.net (Bob the Dinosaur)
 To:	glass@bungi.com (glass@bungi.com)
 
 I had been taught to stretch lead came for two reasons:
 1) to straighten out any bends or kinks caused by handling or shipping
   and 
 2) To 'work harden' the soft came. Many years ago as someone involved in
 mechanical engineering, I learned about the 'modulous of elasticity' and
 other metalurgical concepts. Metal will stretch, and return to original
 length, as tension is applied and released, just like a rubber band.
 This is a predictable event, with a fixed ratio of load to stretch. That
 is if you put x number of pounds of load on a metal rod, it will strect
 a y amount. Take the load off, and it will return to it's original
 length. Put 2x pound of load , it will stretch 2y amount. This ratio is
 linear up to the metals 'yield point', where the metal becomes 'plastic'
 and will stretch more than y per increase in x. Like Silly Putty, or
 clay. If you increase the load to point of failure, the broken pieces
 when measured, will be longer than the original piece. If you remove the
 load after the yield point, but before failure, the structure of the
 metal will have changed, and the material will be harder (and mostly
 stronger) than it was orginally.
 Lead, as bought, is 'floppy' and soft. After stretching, it is more
 rigid and hard. (Don't go there, no naked soldering under the moon or
 tutu jokes please). 
 The point of this post, you may ask, after reading through a lot of
 semi-technical drivel? I received a new catalog yesterday, and thumbing
 through, I came to the lead vise and 'came stretcher' part. I was
 thinking of buying a stretcher, as I have not found the right point to
 stop between 'yield point' and tensile failure of various lead profiles
 and have landed on my butt (no silicone,BTW, for all you Chicago Hope
 fans) when the came broke. In the catalog, there was a disclaimer about
 only pulling the came enough to straighten the came, and not to stretch
 the lead as it would weaken it???
 Curious, why not call it a came straightener, instead of a stretcher?
 Should I not work the lead? Has the alloy changed since I learned (4yrs
 ago?).
> Or is this a disclaimer so us large people with poor major muscle
 >control don't sue the came manufacturers when we land on our
 >non-silicone enhanced butts in a trash can??? 
.  >          Any input from those who have been doing more lead work than
 >this relatively newbie part-timer??? 
 --  >>

    Relax Bob, and just pull the lead till it feels like it's starting to pull
back!! 

 <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JKSinrod/sinrod.html">Sinrod Stained Glass
Studios</A> 
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 07:22:35 1998
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X-Path: tripos.com!rammann
From: Rachel Ammann <rammann@tripos.com>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------1A3D3CD7BF3FD336EF1D4743"
Subject: Re: Glass beaded fringe & drapery glass
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:04:03 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov20.243.0>
References: <<1998Nov19.84426.0>>
Organization: Tripos, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------1A3D3CD7BF3FD336EF1D4743
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Drapery glass is sheet glass that had been brought up
to fusing temperatures and manipulated ("mushed around"
when hot). Visualize a hand towel that you throw into a
laundry basket, instead of neating smoothing it flat.
The glass can be folded upon itself.  It can be very
"thick" since the sheet has never been straightened out
(and this was on purpose). The thickness can be 1/2
inch or so. (The glass sheet is not so thick, the
thickness comes from  the manipulation).

Drpaery is best cut on a bandsaw.  It is often not flat
enough to cut with your basic cutter, and costs too
much to waste.

This is a little different from Uroboros or Bullseye
granites, ripples and herringbone glasses. These are
put through a machine when hot. One side of the glass
is sorta flat.  The other side has a texture.  But the
glass sheet lays flat on a table. Granites look like
the face of a rock that has been cleaved.  Look at
catalogs for a description of ripples and herringbones
(I realize that my descriptions are somewhat lacking).
But the "texture" is only an 1/8 of an inch high.

I do not know about Youghiogheny's ripple, I assume it
is similar to the Uroboros/Bullseye products.

The big difference betwee drapery and texture glass is
that drapery hardly ever lays very flat (but texture is
pretty flat).  You really have to hunt around the sheet
of drapery glass to find out where to cut for a pattern
piece.  Drapery is mostly not flat enough to use with
came.  When foiling drapery, you can fill in cracks
with a smidge (or more) of solder.




--------------1A3D3CD7BF3FD336EF1D4743
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 07:54:23 1998
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: English method
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:10:14 +0000
Message-ID: <199811201501.KAA22877@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Precedence: bulk


> Hello JKSinrod,
> 	Can you please shed some light (pardon the pun)... Why is light box
> cutting only for pro's.... ?

Today's "pros" are yesterday's "hobbyists." The terms don't mean much 
except as an indication of either experience or willingness to charge 
market rates for their work. Of course, willlingness to charge for 
work doesn't automatically mean that the "pros" are capable of the 
work. That's why (smart) clients ask for references and the *really 
smart clients actually check out the references.

albert
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 08:23:34 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Computer woes
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:03:39 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov20.5339.0>
References: <<1998Nov19.16343.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Dani Greer wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone-
> 
> The good news is that I can type all the way across the page like other
> real folks!  The bad news is that I've killed two computers this week and=
> 
> in the process lost my address book and URL's for all your
> websites.....waaahhhh!  Would everyone on my mailing list drop me a quick=
> 
> line with addy's and web sites, please?!!!  TIA.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Dani Greer (who is not writing any more checks to the nice computer guru
> this week.)
> Greer Gallery & Studios
> www.igga.org/greer/  =
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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sure my e-mail esavad@home.com

my page http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/  and the lonks page should
fill in alot of the other bookmarks.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 08:28:48 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:gunnx4@ix.netcom.com" <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Glass beaded fringe & drapery glass
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:15:09 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov20.5159.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by Suzanne:
>Duh!  I got a little confused about the fringe.  Were you talking about
attaching the fringe with UUUUU or doing the beadwork myself and
attaching it to the UUUUUUU.>

The former.  Not even my ole self would want to do the beading myself.

<I have just *changed* my idea...on the drive to pick Emily up from
School.  I am not ready for drapery.  Sheesh...sounds like a nightmare
to me trying to copperfoil it.  Right now, I need success, not major
frustration.  I think I need to work out the design with some pretty
colorful glasses that *I can handle with the skills I currently possess.
Drapery a bit later.

Thank you for not *telling* me...Suzanne you cant handle it!  Thanks for
letting me think it out and come to that conclusion on my own.  =


First time I mess with a drapery glass.. I think I want someone more
experienced with me! ;o)  =


Suzanne, feeling pretty chicken<

Oh, don't feel chicken.  I didn't mean to make drapery sound all that
nasty, really I didn't.  There are some textured glass which is not as
thick & heavy as full drapery, which will give you an in-between feel
for the stuff.  I really, really like the Wissmach Ripples.  The texture
is not as heavy as Youghiogheny Ripple or Uroborus Ripple, and
the Wissmach cuts very nicely.  Yesterday I was cutting Wissmach
#0196RIP which is a blue/green/pink ripple glass.  Medium thickness
texture in these absolutely lucious color swirls.  I successfully cut
many thin, thin pieces (think of a stream meandering through a
meadow), even through the ripple.  It's not as hard as you think.
So...my point...why not try a Wissmach Ripple, or even one of the
Spectrum Granite textured glasses, such as S4115G Brown on Gold
Streaky Granite?  They can provide you with an introduction to the
ripple glasses available.  But I would avoid the highly-rippled
glasses from Youghiogheny (such as Y1007RRG white opal/
pink ripple) or Uroborus (especially the Herringbone Granite Ripple
such as U5005 White which I used in a lead window construction -
yikes!).

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 08:55:33 1998
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'Barbara'" <bjs10@cornell.edu>, "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: How is it done? Was;RE: English method
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:21:07 -0500
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To All,

I'm no pro but I'd like to try this lightbox cutting.=20

Could someone give me the paraticulars?=20
-Like, do you tape your pattern to the back of the glass so that you can =
rotate the glass to get the best position for seeing and cutting?=20
-Do you put the whole sheet over the pattern or do you cut off a little =
bit first?=20
-At what height is your light table so you can get right over top of the =
glass so that your score line is not askew from the pattern below?

Just some basics, please.

Linda






Barbara said:
 Hello JKSinrod,
	Can you please shed some light (pardon the pun)... Why is light box
cutting only for pro's.... ?
	I am not a pro and have recently started doing most of my patter work =
on a
light box and have found it to be as accurate as I am with cutting and
tracing pattern pieces. =20
	It does save time (my time is valuable to me too) and I find that I am
more accurate.  It saves glass and I can see the grain better.  I can =
see
exactly how the piece is going to look and choose the part of the glass =
I
want to cut the piece from.
	What am I missing?

Barbara


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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 08:57:34 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Glass beaded fringe & drapery glass
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:34:48 -0600
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Chicken little said;

> First time I mess with a drapery glass.. I think I want someone more
> experienced with me! ;o)  

Christie said;
> Oh, don't feel chicken.  I didn't mean to make drapery sound all that
> nasty, really I didn't.  There are some textured glass which is not as
> thick & heavy as full drapery, which will give you an in-between feel
> for the stuff. 

I was thinking about a really cool wool indian blanket I have in my
closet.  It isnt even as textured as the glass!  Why would I make a
panel of one so textured as with youghe...drapery?       

I do still want to use some glass with some texture.  I dont know when I
will actually get started on this particular idea, but it is one that I
intend to do somewhat soon.

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 09:25:17 1998
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Subject: To stretch or not to stretch? (long)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:45:33 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Nov20.164533.0>
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The manufacturer of the lead came we use and sell in our shop (retail store)
makes lead came in three different grades. 
Soft
Half-hard
Hard
Our suppliers import the half-hard came unless specially ordered, so anyone
in the UK buying Stillemans lead will usually have the half-hard version.
This is not soft and floppy except for the very narrow 1/8th inch (3 mm)
string lead.
Our practice is to stretch it on one of two occasions
1.  To remove any kinks in the lead
2.  To assist in assembly when making windows with mainly squares or diamond
shapes.  Thus it is easier to keep the lead lines straight and to pattern.
We find that to stretch this half-hard lead willynilly causes problems
especially when the lead needs to be curved around intricately shaped glass
pieces, as it is too stiff to take up the shape exactly - requiring
excessive use of the maxim "if it doesnt fit - hit it with a hammer".
In our area there are several tutors who insist that all lead must be
stretched before use.  The reasons they give are many and various, one being
that by stretching the lead the molecular structure is altered and thus
renders the lead stronger, another being that it makes the lead go further
enabling less lead to be purchased ;-)
If this molecular change is a vital part of working with lead came does
anyone out there actually manage to stretch 3/4 lead (20mm)?  Most normal
mortals would be hard pushed to stretch this wide lead to any great amount.
Elizabeth
Bournemouth Stained Glass
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk

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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 11:04:57 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
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Subject: Need advice!!!
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:54:49 -0600
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Hi everybody....

A gal we know dropped by the other day, my husband showed her my stained
glass work...She *loved* it.  Her daughter goes to the most expensive
private school in town.  All the big monied kids go there.  They are
having their annual fundraiser walk and art and craft show in the gym
Dec 6th.  Artist and craftsmen come from out of state to do this show.

This gal said she has never seen any stained glass there...and she
said..."Suzanne, you could make a fortune there."  Well, I know the
people attending are the DREAM attendees!

She just called me and said she told the contact gal about me and....
the contact gal was real interested in my stuff.  She said...call her
Suzanne.

Ok... I have her number.  I dont have any display anything to do a
show/sale.  It is a one day thing (thank God), but still I dont know if
I could be ready by then.

Do you think it is possible?  Think I ought to just get on the contact
list for next year?  Think I should dive in head first and TRY?  I dont
want to screw it up, as like I said, this is the DREAM cream of the crop
people in town to sell to.  These are the yards that are 2 acre, and
have the wrought iron fences that cost more than my house and cars
combined, and have the kind of garden that would beg for a garden stone!
Dropping $100 for a yard decoration is like me spending $1.50.

For me to be ready, I would have to work major full time...need full
time help with my kids...and find display stuff.  Dont know if I can get
the help I need to pull it off.

How much work do I need to do a one day show?  I dont even know the
hours.  Wouldnt think more than 5-8.  but ya never know.  I called the
contact gal to find out how many people are expected, the hours etc...
but only got the machine..so expecting to hear back.

Such a bummer to miss this...but I cant do it if I cant be ready
properly either!

Suzanne

What do I do??
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 11:33:38 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Ensembles@compuserve.com
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Subject: more show info
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:22:39 -0600
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The contact gal returned my call...

Said the show is invitation only and from what she had heard about my
work she thinks it would do really well, and be really popular and they
dont have anything else like it.  They dont have any glass at all!! 
 I AM INVITED!!!!!  YIKES!!!!  I told her I would call her back.

She said it is advertised on all the local tv stations, radio stations
and is a 16 yr old show.  The people go on a tour of homes, have a nice
lunch, then do their Christmas shopping.  This is probably the best show
in Tulsa I could do.  These are not people that are worried about how
much they spend!

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 11:34:01 1998
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Subject: Re: more show info
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:27:57 -0600
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Forgot to say.....

She is willing to let me get down to the wire to let her know if I can
be ready....so might as well try, right?????  

She wasnt even worried about the quantity I had available, she said you
can just display and take orders if you want!!!  Man.  I could cry!

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 11:55:36 1998
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From: JKSinrod@aol.com
To: bjs10@cornell.edu, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: English method
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:25:07 EST
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In a message dated 11/20/98 9:49:43 AM Eastern Standard Time,
bjs10@cornell.edu writes:

> Subj:	 Fwd: English method
>  Date:	11/20/98 9:49:43 AM Eastern Standard Time
>  From:	bjs10@cornell.edu (Barbara)
>  To:	glass@bungi.com
>  
>  Hello JKSinrod,
>  	Can you please shed some light (pardon the pun)... Why is light box
>  cutting only for pro's.... ?
>  	I am not a pro and have recently started doing most of my patter work on a
>  light box and have found it to be as accurate as I am with cutting and
>  tracing pattern pieces.  
>  	It does save time (my time is valuable to me too) and I find that I am
>  more accurate.  It saves glass and I can see the grain better.  I can see
>  exactly how the piece is going to look and choose the part of the glass I
>  want to cut the piece from.
>  	What am I missing?
>  
>  Barbara
>  
>  . Light box cutting is only for pro's, 
>  > where time is more important than accuracy.
>  >  
>  
Sorry my mistake in wording that reply. I was strictly talking to learning the
best way to be accurate for a beginner. Light box cutting causes a parallex
problem in seeing where to cut, and in my experience as a teacher, it's much
easier to be accurate with the more traditional method.... although more time
consuming. "Pro" was a poor choice of words. Should have said experienced
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 13:15:52 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Need advice!!!
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:49:52 +0000
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Now then!!
Don't Panic!!
Cool down!!
Make sure you have GOOD piocs ready of some of the things you HAVE 
don!
Make sure you have good quality cards (and plenty of them) with you.
Concentrate on focusing to make small items, that you may have 
prepared to some extent in advance.
Then do a DEMO-show!
I.e.  actually demonstrate doing the things that you then can sell 
there and then. 
Everybody loves the idea of buying something they have actually seen 
being made with their own eyes.
Howard is a perfect "show-man" He might well have tips and  ideas how 
to create an impromptu bit of a "show"......given that you don't have 
much time.

.....more when I have a few more minutes spare....
Elisabeth /n Toby in UK
> Hi everybody....
> 
> A gal we know dropped by the other day, my husband showed her my stained
> glass work...She *loved* it.  Her daughter goes to the most expensive
> private school in town.  All the big monied kids go there.  They are
> having their annual fundraiser walk and art and craft show in the gym
> Dec 6th.  Artist and craftsmen come from out of state to do this show.
> 
> This gal said she has never seen any stained glass there...and she
> said..."Suzanne, you could make a fortune there."  Well, I know the
> people attending are the DREAM attendees!
> 
> She just called me and said she told the contact gal about me and....
> the contact gal was real interested in my stuff.  She said...call her
> Suzanne.
> 
> Ok... I have her number.  I dont have any display anything to do a
> show/sale.  It is a one day thing (thank God), but still I dont know if
> I could be ready by then.
> 
> Do you think it is possible?  Think I ought to just get on the contact
> list for next year?  Think I should dive in head first and TRY?  I dont
> want to screw it up, as like I said, this is the DREAM cream of the crop
> people in town to sell to.  These are the yards that are 2 acre, and
> have the wrought iron fences that cost more than my house and cars
> combined, and have the kind of garden that would beg for a garden stone!
> Dropping $100 for a yard decoration is like me spending $1.50.
> 
> For me to be ready, I would have to work major full time...need full
> time help with my kids...and find display stuff.  Dont know if I can get
> the help I need to pull it off.
> 
> How much work do I need to do a one day show?  I dont even know the
> hours.  Wouldnt think more than 5-8.  but ya never know.  I called the
> contact gal to find out how many people are expected, the hours etc...
> but only got the machine..so expecting to hear back.
> 
> Such a bummer to miss this...but I cant do it if I cant be ready
> properly either!
> 
> Suzanne
> 
> What do I do??
> -- 
> ~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 13:41:43 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: suzanne de tulsa's missive and our escape plan
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Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:32:50 +0000
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Yep!!!
Clothes optional!!
I'll provide the moon-light!
Patrick??
Only WITH tu-tu!!
E 'n T in UK

> In a message dated 11/19/98 6:25:27 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> bshep@dircon.co.uk writes:
> 
> > Elisabeth!
> >  
> >  I hope you will bring all your run away moonlighting mothers to Cornwall
> for
> >  a few days! Ann and I would be delighted to see you all!  We can
> accommodate
> >  two confortably and two more on matresses on the floor!
> >  
> >  Regards
> 
> Hey Suzanne, 
> 
> Look!!!  We are getting invites from people who will shelter us during our
> escape from family life.  Pack your tools (it appears clothes are optional)
> and I'll meet you at the airport. 
> 
> Pat
> 
> ps.  We need to pick up Patrick on our way, I think he would be willing to go
> too.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> 
> 
----
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North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 14:00:19 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: FITTER RINGS-where to see
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Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:32:50 +0000
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Well Brian,....
A wicked thought just crossed my mind....  ;->
I wonder if you can gues what it is...
Elisabeth 'n Toby in Hertfordshire, UK


> From:          "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
> To:            "Charles Warner" <charles@warner-criv.com>, "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
> Subject:       Re: FITTER RINGS-where to see
> Date:          Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:12:55 -0000

> Something else not available through stained glass suppliers in this
> country!!!
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 14:07:40 1998
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Hi all,

Coming up for air briefly here.... lurking and otherwhise working my 
Ar%+* off. Will reply to everyone!!!
Just could not resist this little one
Brian!!
ONLY if you are wearing a s.g. tu-tu!!.
Suzanne in Tulsa.... know the feeling. Some years ago I woke up in 
the middle of the night, couldn't move, couldn't shift in bed. I 
thought I had had a heart attack and become paralyzed. I wriggled my 
toes, wriggled my fingers. They seemed to work OK. I struggled madly 
to wake up, to try and find out what was the matter with me. Then I 
felt the bed trembling. Oh Boy! DID it tremble!!
This is weird!, I thought 'n struggled some more. Eventually after a 
few minutes I realized I was pinned down under my duvet by the 
combined weight of 110 kgs worth of 2 trembling terrified Old English 
Sheepdogs, totally "jellified" on top of me, because there was a 
thunderstorm going on outside, with lots of "whizz - bangs" and 
thunder. (Those 2 little horrors were great uncle and great aunt to 
Toby Tobias, by the way). Once I realized what was going on, I  
turfed them off the bed (they were never, never allowed there!) We 
all went downstairs and had a cup of tea (yep, them too!!). We talked 
some, we had some cuddles and sat through the storm. They were never 
frightened of thunderstorms after that.
But Guy Fawkes night here in England I always made sure I spent at 
home. Even Toby has a poor sense of History and wishes that Guy 
Fawkes would rest peacefully in his grave and not keep on bothering 
him every year!

Hey, Brian! Don't promise too much!! I / We just MIGHT take you up on 
it!! ....And of course... the "traffic" is very welcome the other way 
round too! Spare beds, mattresses 'n dog-rugs provided. If you want 
to be first in the bath-room, YOU do the washing-up after dinner!! 
(tee-hee!)

And I'll take you to Ely Cathedral and the stained glass museum 
there. My Parish Church has a William Morris stained glass panel and 
I am about 45 minutes from Cambridge and the Flemish (and other) 
stained glass at the Colleges....... I am also mentioning this to 
"tease" our friends Across the Pond. I have (and am) receiving some 
wonderful vignettes , descriptions and "tasters" from people telling 
me and tempting me about their own little corners. It's  wonderful!! 
I now have my brand new Atlas of USA and spend FAR TOO MUCH time 
pouring over it (when I should really work!!) Other little snippets 
from my little "corner" of England.  3 minutes from my cottage and I 
am on Bowes-Lyon Estate (The Queen Mother's lot), 3 minutes to the 
West and I am on Pilkington land ( of Pilkington Glass), 10 minutes 
away and I am at the doorstep of George Bernard Shaw (The writer and 
Nobel Prize Winner); 20 minutes away I am at Hatfield House, where 
Queen Elizabeth I spent her child-hood and from where she succeeded 
to the English throne, 15 minutes away I am in St.Albans which is a 
Roman city, with lots of Roman ruins and remains, with a Roman 
amphi-theatre that is the best preserved such in Northern Europe. 
St.Albans is named after the first English Christian marter; Alban, 
who was a soldier in the Roman Army. It's  very beautiful  
around here, gently rolling old landscape, with canals and rivers and 
woodlands, miles and miles of footpaths. ....and lots and lots of 
history. Not as beautiful or dramatic as Sweden, but quite a fair 
little patch of land. 
Visitors are always welcome (...  provided they do the washing-up!)

 Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

> It's OK with me but I'm first in the queue for the bathroom in the morning!
> 
> Brian
> -----Original Message-----
> From: daver!one.net!kleeman <daver!one.net!kleeman>
> To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
> Date: 19 November 1998 13:00
> Subject: Re: suzanne de tulsa's missive*not glass*
> 
> 
> >brian
> >understanding we are all mothers, who can sleep with six kids, a dog, and a
> >husband in a twin bed,
> >it sounds to me like you have room for about 22 of us !! !
> >right, ladies?
> >debbie
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Brian Shepherd <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
> >To: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>; glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
> >Date: Thursday, November 19, 1998 6:34 AM
> >Subject: Re: suzanne de tulsa's missive
> >
> >
> >>Elisabeth!
> >>
> >>I hope you will bring all your run away moonlighting mothers to Cornwall
> >for
> >>a few days! Ann and I would be delighted to see you all!  We can
> >accommodate
> >>two confortably and two more on matresses on the floor!
> >>
> >>Regards
> >>
> >>Brian
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
> >>To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
> >>Date: 19 November 1998 09:03
> >>Subject: Re: suzanne de tulsa's missive
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>....Or a home for run-away moonlighting mothers...????
> >>>E 'n T in UK
> >>>
> >>>> >  When you run away to England, can I go with you?  However, I am
> going
> >>to pass
> >>>> > > on the class that advocates soldering naked in the moonlight.
> >>>> > >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Wonder if we could talk Elisabeth into running a home for runaway
> >>>> Mothers? ;o) Kind of a rest home type thing,  we could actually take
> >>>> turns cooking, vacuuming as in a hostel. Stained glass as our therapy.
> >>>>
> >>>> Suzanne
> >>>> --
> >>>> ~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
> >>>> ----
> >>>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >>>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >>>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>----
> >>>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> >>>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> >>>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> >>>----
> >>>----
> >>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >>
> >>----
> >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >>
> >
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 14:27:22 1998
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X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: RE: suzanne de tulsa's missive
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:32:50 +0000
Message-ID: <199811201940.TAA03956@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

There, there, there.....
Poor little sausage!
Mummy will kiss it better..
E 'n T in UK



> What about us poor overworked fathers?????
> No one ever thinks of us!!!
> We get to stay up all night during labor in case "mom" needs anything.
> But does mom even share her drugs???
> 
> Maybe some of us dads would like to become run-away moonlighting
> fathers.
> 
> Vic
> Founder of the Equal Drugs for Expectant Fathers Movement. 
> 
> PS Regarding Bio #71: What is a stationery cupboard?
> 
> 
> 		-----Original Message-----
> 		From:	Toby [mailto:toby@northlights.co.uk]
> 		Sent:	Thursday, November 19, 1998 2:47 AM
> 		To:	glass@bungi.com
> 		Subject:	Re: suzanne de tulsa's missive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 		....Or a home for run-away moonlighting mothers...????
> 		E 'n T in UK
> 				> >  When you run away to England, can I
> go with you?  However, I am going to pass
> 				> > > on the class that advocates
> soldering naked in the moonlight.
> 				> > >
> 			> 
> 			> 
> 			> Wonder if we could talk Elisabeth into running
> a home for runaway
> 			> Mothers? ;o) Kind of a rest home type thing,
> we could actually take
> 			> turns cooking, vacuuming as in a hostel.
> Stained glass as our therapy.
> 			> 
> 			> Suzanne
> 			> -- 
> 				> ~The most wasted day of all is that on
> which you have not laughed~
> 			> ----
> 			> For subscription changes, please mail to:
> glass-request@bungi.com <mailto:glass-request@bungi.com> 
> 			> To send to the list,      please mail to:
> glass@bungi.com <mailto:glass@bungi.com> 
> 			> Archives available at
> http://www.bungi.com/glass <http://www.bungi.com/glass> 
> 			> 
> 			> 
> 		----
> 		As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of
> mind"
> 		North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> 	
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> <http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm>  
> 		----
> 		----
> 		For subscription changes, please mail to:
> glass-request@bungi.com <mailto:glass-request@bungi.com> 
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> 		Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> <http://www.bungi.com/glass> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 14:29:43 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: To stretch or not to stretch? (long)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:42:33 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov20.94233.0>
Precedence: bulk

Elizabeth, thanks for sharing your
insights about lead.  Michael and I
just finished an interesting conversation
about some of the points you brought
up.  We have no choice of lead
hardness in our neck of the woods,
and as it turns out, Michael in his
25 years has only used Wensley lead!
(By the way, it's rumored the company
is up for sale.) Methinks it's time to order some
Jansen & Buscher just for a change!
I find the Wensley to be quite frustrating
as the channel is often way too narrow
for the thicker glasses, especially =

that wonderful West German Lamberts.
We stretch all our lead which must be
what you classify as soft since it is all
very floppy.  Don't use 3/4 inch, although
we will on this church restoration we're
working on - will let you know if we can
get it stretched!  ;-)  I'm really curious now,
what other brands of lead does everyone
out there use?  What are per pound prices?

As far as stretching making the lead stronger....
mmmm, I don't know. The key is to stretch
just enough to straighten the lead without
*weakening it in the process, which happens
if you stretch too much. There might be =

some strengthening that occurs in the first
1/2 - 1 inch of stretch, but beyond that, I =

would guess the lead is being damaged.
Any comments from our scientists?

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 14:46:58 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Fwd: English method
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:42:40 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov20.94240.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Barbara-

Light box cutting is not just for pros, but
it does take a bit more practice to be able
to cut accurately especially if, like many
professionals, you pass on the grinding
stage.  I have a bit of a problem cutting
extremely accurately on a light box because
of my eyesight.... very near-sighted and, now,
alas, at that age where I probably could =

really stand to wear bi-focals (gack!)  The
thickness of the glass throws my accuracy
off, which isn't a big issue with lead, but
with copper foil it can be a problem (assuming
you want your solder lines to be the same
width throughout the panel).  My general rule
of thumb is: if it's copper foiled, organic in =

design (lots of curvy pieces), and more than
100 pieces, cut a pattern.  It may take more
time up front, but it'll save a lot of frustration
down the road.  Michael does the same, =

even after 25 years at the bench.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 14:52:23 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "Suzanne" <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: ADVICE
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:22:30 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov20.42230.0>
Precedence: bulk

Never cash a check you do not have in your hand!

Some of the biggest and best promises fizzle out.

Sometimes some of the BIGGEST spenders are very cheap and want something for
nothing. I have dueled with high rollers in a few posh places and I am glad
I need not count on them. They have bragged to me how they "took" advantage
of other craftsman and or paid very little for the stuff they got. I have
given prices and watched them wiggle and find reasons NOT to "buy". I
usually notice the vehicles they drive and equate my items to the quality of
same vehicles, never saw a Yugo or a Fiesta in their driveways.

Enough negatives.

DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! A thought, though......tie in some "school" gimmick, a
donation of a percent of your sales. Buy so many widgets and get a widget
free! 1 on 12 a bakers dozen is a 8.5% discount.

Always go high and never sell out of desperation......Savvy shoppers can
smell blood and will niggle you to death.
If you get a " I be back later, get a deposit to hold an item" If they pick
up something and vacillate, tell them it is a good seller (compared to what)
and may not be there later( may be it will be there later but you need not
say so).

Selling is as important as the product....Fortunately MY product is as good
as my ability to hustle it!

Any customs orders GET A DEPOSIT, not a promise!

enjoy, H


weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard   best lamps on the "net"
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 15:21:13 1998
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From: StndGlass1@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Cole Brothers website
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:20:55 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov20.212055.0>
Precedence: bulk

Linda,

Just wanted to thank you again for letting me know about our pattern being
sold on someone else's website.  In case you are interested, here is a copy of
the letter that I sent to him.  I encourage everyone else who has put a
pattern on the web anywhere to check this site
http://www.colebrothers.com/stainedglass and click on the stepping stone
patterns link to make sure that your patterns have not been stolen as well.

Thanks again Linda!

Jenna Meredith-Sanders
Meredith Stained Glass
www.meredithglass.com

Here is the copy of the letter I sent to them:

Please consider this a cease and desist letter.  If our pattern, which is
clearly copyrighted on our website, is not removed from your site within 24
hours, you can expect a call from our lawyer.

I have been contacted by a customer of mine who found the pattern on your
website, clearly a DIRECT rip-off from our website.  I am not amused.

I am also aware that a great deal of the other patterns on your site were not
designed by you, and I am familiar with several of the other artists.  It is
my strong recommendation to you that if you do not have SPECIFIC authorization
in writing from the artist to feature these patterns on your site that they be
removed IMMEDIATELY.

This is not the first time you have heard from an artist who has found their
work on your site, so "I didn't know" is not going to work this time.

Jenna Meredith-Sanders
Meredith Stained Glass
http://www.meredithglass.com
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 15:25:28 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: all <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Blenko
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:04:09 -0500
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Hi all-

Does anyone know how to get a catalog
from Blenko?  I guess they don't respond
to their email queries.  (Why bother to post
an addy in your advertising if you're not =

planning to answer your mail?  Seems like
bad business to me.)

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 15:43:43 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Need advice!!!
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:49:16 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov20.94916.0>
References: <<3655CA2C.DC652DC4@tripos.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Dear Lord I'm glad I know you folks.  I've been working like a slave
today....and its looking good.  

Printing out advice...Thanks very much you guys....
*anything* you can think of is appreciated...as I have never done this
before you know.

Oh, and the Ok sg guild, I wont be meeting them until January.  I dont
know any of them.... Darnnnnnnnn!!!!!  That would have been perfect to
have someone with more experience close by.

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 15:44:01 1998
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From: JKSinrod@aol.com
To: alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: English method
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:46:30 EST
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In a message dated 11/20/98 10:55:38 AM Eastern Standard Time,
alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net writes:

> Subj:	 Re: English method
>  Date:	11/20/98 10:55:38 AM Eastern Standard Time
>  From:	alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net (Albert Lewis)
>  To:	glass@bungi.com
>  
>  
>  > Hello JKSinrod,
>  > 	Can you please shed some light (pardon the pun)... Why is light box
>  > cutting only for pro's.... ?
>  

As I said previously..... bad use of words on my part. I was talking to a
beginner, and as I teach my students, the traditional method is the more
accurate. It takes experience to cut on a light box. It's hard enough learning
to cut well, but making decisions like which side of the line to cut on, and
seeing the line well, are things that I think make it more difficult. 
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 16:12:22 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: How is it done? Was;RE: English method
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:24:37 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov20.122437.0>
References: <<1998Nov20.5217.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Linda Campbell wrote:
> 
> To All,
> 
> I'm no pro but I'd like to try this lightbox cutting.=20
> 
> Could someone give me the paraticulars?=20
> -Like, do you tape your pattern to the back of the glass so that you can =
> rotate the glass to get the best position for seeing and cutting?=20
> -Do you put the whole sheet over the pattern or do you cut off a little =
> bit first?=20
> -At what height is your light table so you can get right over top of the =
> glass so that your score line is not askew from the pattern below?
> 
> Just some basics, please.
> 
> Linda
> 
> Barbara said:
>  Hello JKSinrod,
>         Can you please shed some light (pardon the pun)... Why is light box
> cutting only for pro's.... ?
>         I am not a pro and have recently started doing most of my patter work =
> on a
> light box and have found it to be as accurate as I am with cutting and
> tracing pattern pieces. =20
>         It does save time (my time is valuable to me too) and I find that I am
> more accurate.  It saves glass and I can see the grain better.  I can =
> see
> exactly how the piece is going to look and choose the part of the glass =
> I
> want to cut the piece from.
>         What am I missing?
> 
> Barbara
> 
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i place the pattern on the light box, then the glass on top of that. i
trace with marker the pattern on the glass. then on the table i cut the
glass out on my bench. the sheet stays whole (or as whole as possible).
i trace the pattern on the glass where it fit's best and follows the
grain best. at the end i'll have all the pieces on the glass, and i can
cut the whole section off without wating extra glass.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 16:35:38 1998
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From: "Vic LaGreca" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Re: Need Advice!!!
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:07:51 -0500
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Suzanne:	I wouldn't worry about having too much finished stock on hand.  If
they are what you think they are I would sell the concept and TAKE ORDERS f
or custom made pieces.  Pictures would be nice but drawings would be great.
Especially if you have the talent to do some improvisational drawings on
the spot. This will solve the time problem, the money problem and the
display problem.  Your inventory should be a sampling of your best
work.  

The last thing they want to hear is that "anyone" can have your work!  Or,
god forbid, that their "best friend" (read: she/they have more or less than
me/us) will have the same piece in their garden/home. Custom pieces can
mean extra fees/charges too.

Also, since the idea for stained glass is out there now, you will have your
foot in the door first.

Ciao

Vic



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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 17:27:42 1998
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: JKSinrod@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: English method
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:21:08 -0500
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Organization: @Home Network
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Yes, this is the much easier method. (I should be in soldering right
now, but taking a sit down break)  I took one short class, they were
teaching the 'pattern' method, and I stopped doing it with my second
piece.  I did 3 pieces that class, while everyone else was still working
on the first.  Start with easy cutting glass, and a simple pattern, and
even a complete beginner will catch on quick. Black glass I paste a
pattern piece on, that's all.  Most of my 3 D pieces are made (on the 
fly) with no pattern at all.  

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
> 
> As I said previously..... bad use of words on my part. I was talking to a
> beginner, and as I teach my students, the traditional method is the more
> accurate. It takes experience to cut on a light box. It's hard enough learning
> to cut well, but making decisions like which side of the line to cut on, and
> seeing the line well, are things that I think make it more difficult.
> ----
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 18:58:55 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: No husbands though!
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:01:58 -0500
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Elisabeth, you beast, I know what
I'll be doing on my trip to England! ;-)
Seriously though, would you consider
a nice little slide presentation and
lecture on the stained glass right
around you?  I am particularly =

interested in the Morris piece since
I'm a fan of the Pre-Raphaelites and
I imagine it's a piece not shown in
the history books.  Is it truly a Morris
or was it a Burne-Jones designed
for Morris Studios?  What a treat it
would be if you could pass on some
history that is a bit more than the =

usual college textbook fare.  So often,
one goes through book after book =

and sees the same photographs of
the same artists again and again.
Just a thought, probably a ton of work,
and it sounds like you're plenty busy
already.  (Working on commissions?)
How's Toby doing?  It's almost bio time
again, and it sounds as though Patrick
is a bit short this week..... might be doggy
treat time!

Best,

Dani
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 19:18:48 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: ADVICE
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:01:55 -0500
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Strong words of advice from Howard
and also truer than true.  Don't let all
those wonderful strokes of the ego
get in the way of cold, hard business
sense.  Folks don't usually get rich spending
money.... they get rich squeezing every
dime  out of every dollar, in other words,
spending consciously.  And just for the
record - we don't discount our work....
and we don't charge rich people more
just because they're rich.  Our prices
are what they are for everyone. That's
just good business.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 20:32:13 1998
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From: byronw@eatumup.com (Byron Wells)
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Blenko
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:31:52 -0600
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Hi Dani...

Thier phone numbers are 304-743-9081 and fax 304-743-0547

Byron...
Wells Glassworks

-----Original Message-----
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: all <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 9:32 AM
Subject: Blenko


>Hi all-
>
>Does anyone know how to get a catalog
>from Blenko?  I guess they don't respond
>to their email queries.  (Why bother to post
>an addy in your advertising if you're not =
>
>planning to answer your mail?  Seems like
>bad business to me.)
>
>Best regards,
>
>Dani Greer
>Greer Gallery & Studios
>----
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 22:07:28 1998
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Subject: Re: Need advice!!!
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 22:51:37 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov21.35137.0>
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GO FOR IT !!!
Take what you can to display. Hopefully you have taken pictures of the other
stones, etc, you have done. Display your photo alblum. Take orders. Give out
business cards. I would try my best.
Tell hubby since he is so hot for you to make some money with your craft, he
will have to watch the kids for a few days while you work !!!

Susan
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 22:25:24 1998
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To: all <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Cole Brothers
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 22:51:06 -0500
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Thanks for spreading the word, Jenna.
This is how we hold people accountable
within the industry.  Just out of curiosity,
are your patterns registered with the
Library of Congress (copyright office)?
If so, do you batch copyright.... in other =

words, send a collection of photos/patterns
under one title page for the $20 fee?  Does
anyone else have experience with this?
I tend to be rather lax with copyright knowing
that the law leans in favor of the original
artist and our work isn't too easily "stolen"
anyway.... not to mention that it can get
expensive if you produce a lot of work.  That's
why I'm particularly interested in "batching"
small collections of completed windows
of original design under one title and one fee.

Best regards,

Dani Greer (who is back to writing other things before Albert strangles
her!)
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/   =

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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 23:10:56 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
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Subject: questions...
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 23:22:40 -0600
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Ok...
I have two more panels cut ready to be 14" stones...
Now, I have only one original pattern left to do.  Then what?

I had plans for the glass I just purchased...family christmas presents,
that were from Tiffany Garden pattern books. One of the books
says..."For personal use only" Pretty clear to me.
The other one doesnt, but is copyrighted.  I have seen stones from that
book all over the internet for sale.  What gives?  Anybody know? 

I dont like some of the stuff I am tempted to do christmasy bevel
clusters that might sell... there is absolutely nothing of me in it.  I
would rather not do the show than do that kind of stuff.

I do like angels though...so are you all making original angels?  Or are
the people who make angels more giving in letting people use their
designs?  

It isnt like I have time to be researching copyrights right now, and I
dont have any design software.  So now what do I do?

Sorry to be so constant. I almost wish this hadnt happened today...and I
could go on my original plans to do a show in the spring, and be ready
for it.

Suzanne, incredibly frustrated, probably tired.
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 20 23:35:16 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Escape Plan
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 00:01:48 -0600
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<<Yep!!!
Clothes optional!!
I'll provide the moon-light!
Patrick??
Only WITH tu-tu!!
E 'n T in UK>>


Elizabeth has an advantage she has seen a photo me with clothes on. What a
dashing figure it I am. That's why she is insisting on the TuTu. She knows
if I did a naked head stand from the back she wouldn't be able to tell the
difference.

BTW to our friends "Down Under" I work with an Aussie Army Officer from
Sydney. I think I have him and his wife hooked on buying stained glass when
they return. Keep you eyes out for him his name is Owen Richards.



Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 02:17:27 1998
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To: "glass bungi com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bio # 72 Cheryl Parrott
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 00:55:00 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov20.18550.0>
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I took my first stained glass class in 1978 and fell in love with it on day
one.   I immediately bought all my tools.  After the first month I bought a
good glass cutter and eventually put together a light box which I still have
to this day.  In fact, I still have the original cutter which I use for
tapping and I have my original straight piece.  I'm a bit sentimental with
my tools.  In 1979  I made a lamp for my sister and in exchange she bought
me a Glastar grinder.  I still have that grinder and I love it except of
course it is one without a drain.  I don't enjoy emptying that puppy!

Through the years, my glass has gotten me through many a difficult times.  I
remember a few of those nasty  PMS nights.   It was a good escape from a
nagging mother-in-law and a possessive husband.  (Thank goodness they are
both x).

When I first started with glass my laundry-sewing room was converted into my
laundry-stained glass room.  I spent many an hour with my hobby.   I was
even fortunate enough to have a house guest who helped put together the
original ovens or whatever they are called at Spectrum Stained Glass in
Woodinville Washington.  He brought plenty of sheets of glass home to me.
Bless his heart.

I used to give stained glass demonstrations at my kids school.  Just prior
to the demonstration the kids would take a tour of the Spectrum plant.
This past two years I have given demonstrations for my neighbor kids.  I no
longer live in Woodinville so the trip to Spectrum seems to be out of the
question for the kids.   Darn it!

I  have two children ages 23 and 26  Jenny and Geoff.  I also have two step
children 22 and 24  Jennifer and Aaron.    I was fortunate to be able to be
a stay at home mom while they were young.  I worked part-time when they
started school as a instructional assistant at a school for developmentally
delayed.  Between my glass, my kids and working at the school I felt quite
fulfilled.

After 17 years of  marriage I divorced my husband.   Two years later I  sold
my house.   With the house gone and apartment life left for myself and two
teenagers I was forced to box up the stained glass supplies.  I gave all my
glass to the local school district.

I missed my love of glass and working and creating with my hands.  In
addition I had to give up my job with the school district to work full time
to support my kids and I.

I worked for 7 years as a Senior Insurance Underwriter for non-standard
insurance. (people who have bad driving records or have had no insurance).
The experience was good for me and it helped to give me some confidence yet
I still really missed working with my hands and stained glass.

I remarried to a super wonderful man about three years ago.  I set up a
corner of the rec-room for my stained glass.   Over the Christmas holidays
two years ago I put together a few stained glass angels and sold them all at
work.   Through all the stress of a bad marriage and working in a very
stressful industry, I developed an anxiety disorder as well as what is
called tri-germinal neuralgia (excoriating facial pains).    Working on
glass over the holidays really helped me to relax and made me realize how
much I loved working with my  hands.  I also felt  they if I would give
myself the chance I could get pretty good at it.

Fortunately,  my husband agreed and I quit my full time job to pursue
dreams.   (I still work two days a week in the insurance industry- it helps
me support my addiction to glass).   So  February 12, 1997 I quit my full
time job and started reaching for the stars.   I have seen my skills improve
drastically.  And, I finally gave up using other peoples patterns and
finally started creating some myself.  You have to realize that someone who
stayed in a bad marriage for 17 years doesn't move to fast.   It takes
awhile for  me to get up the courage and the confidence in my work.

I sell my glass at three stores in the Seattle area.   I have also been
contacted for wholesale and am contemplating exporting..... but the more I
think about it the less I want to do it.  You see,  I really like to get up
in the morning and make what I feel like making.  I'm not much for
production work.

I am creating a line of garden art...... stepping stones,  garden stakes,
and hanging- in -the wind pieces.   I have also created some pieces using
recycled glass and recycled blown glass.   I started the garden stakes using
patterns out of I think it is called "Simply Outside"   Now I am happy to
say I am creating my own work.

I made a lampshade last year for my daughter and I hope to make a
snowboarder window panel for my snow boarding son this Christmas.  I miss
making large pieces,   however I don't seem to have much time for them.

I have been in a couple fairs.  I really appreciate all the support and help
I have received from the Bungi group.

I feel very fortunate for the friends I have made online.   Pam
Burns-Tappan has been very supportive with glass and live as well.   Carol
Swann is great and I found Shirley to me the most supportive with her
stepping stones.  I really enjoy reading all the posts.... well  most of the
posts.  I have days when I am either quite busy or maybe a little down and I
just skim the posts.   Sadly to say,  I really miss a lot when I just skim.
I decided today that I will try to read everyone of them.   I wish there
were more hours in the day!

Usually I turn on the computer as soon as I get up just to take a peek at
what might be new.  I also take a peek throughout the day.   Working at
home,  I still don't have the discipline it takes to stay focused.  As Pam
will attest.... I have a bad habit of getting burned out and then vegging
for a long time.

My daughter and I volunteer two nights a month at a men's shelter in
Seattle.  It is truly an awesome and eye opening experience.  I also
volunteer once a week at a permanent housing for formerly homeless men over
55.  I really love that.  I have shared my love for glass with the guys.
Benny,  who is a real freak for music and the color wheel loves to talk art
and wants to know all about glass.  We have even gone together to the
stained glass wholesaler.   Benny was in heaven.  He wanted me to buy every
color and type of glass they had.   Yea!!!  You bet!!!  In my dreams!!!    A
couple of the guys have asked  me to give a demonstration and classes.
When things settle down I will have to do that.   Really,  I best not wait
for things to settle down as that probably will never happen.

Well, Patrick.... this is a book.   I love stained glass and how inspiring
and totally relaxing and addictive it is.

I hope this not too boring for you all.   I just want to thank  all of you
for the knowledge and  the love of the art of stained glass that you have
shared with everyone in Bungi.   I just wish I could spend sometime in some
of your studios just watching and absorbing all you skills and creativity.
I am in  complete and utter awe of so many of you.


Cheryl Parrott
The Glass Parrott- creations in glass
bird_cage@msn.com





-

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 02:35:33 1998
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Subject: Bio #72 Mary Austin
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 00:57:26 -0600
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I think you have mine already. I'm Mary Austin and I live in Greenwood,
In. I've been doing stained glass for about 4 1/2 yrs. now. I'm legally
blind and work thru a donated magnifying glass. My accent lamp took first
in the fair this year. I'm certainly proud of it. I enjoy all the
learning that I get from all these lovely people who all are willing to
share their knowledge and be helpful. I have 4 cats, one dog(Pappillion)
and a talking Blue Front Amazon Parrot named Romeo.
thanks for all the help from everyone.
Mary


Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 02:40:42 1998
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Subject: End of bios
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 01:13:30 -0600
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I am now completely out of bios to post. How about before everyone nods off
after a huge turkey dinner take a few moments to give thanks that you are
not me when that carnivorous canine Toby comes after my giblets. I'd send
him a drumstick but it takes weeks to get anything to his kingdom. He also
has a sadistic Swede for a master who would appreciate nothing more than my
bald head on a platter for Christmas. She can only browse that Road Atlas I
sent her for so long and then its back to threats of great bodily harm. I
think I made a big mistake by highlighting where I live. On no! there is a
knock on the door with a distinct British accent. Hurry!

So, PLEASE, all of you lurkers, posters, and other ner-do-wells send me your
bios.

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 02:46:45 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bio #73 Jim Kelly
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 01:00:17 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov20.19017.0>
Precedence: bulk

Well Pat, you asked for lurkers.
And I definitely fit  the
suggestion that we are all
artists, just with varying
degrees of skill.
Mine varies all the time.
I grew up in New York, the North
end of Manhattan Island, during
WW2, played stickball and all the
other street type games you=92ve
read about, went to local schools,
married, graduated from college,
and joined the Navy.  Wow, that=92s
25 years in one sentence.  For the
next 25, really 31 years, my
family and I traversed the USA
stationed at various military
facilities around the country.
The Navy took me across both ponds,
by ship to Europe and by plane to
Vietnam.  I enjoyed Europe more.

My wife gave me five wonderful
children who have shared nine
spectacular grandchildren with us.
The Navy brought us to stained
glass by stationing us in San Diego,
where we lived on the Amphib Base
in Coronado.  I must point out that
I told my wife this was the only
overseas duty she and the family
would ever have as the Navy felt
little interest in paying to send
this large family overseas.  I
guess I need to explain in case
a certain USA bound UK bungi
member reads this, you see for
two people who grew up in
New York City, San Diego IS
overseas.  But anyway, I bicycled
the streets of Coronado every
weekend.  Stained Glass is
everywhere in Coronado, and
San Diego for that matter, in
windows, transoms, doors,
skylights, everywhere.  And we
fell in awe of it.
Tried to find convenient classes
to learn, but couldn=92t.  Some years
later we moved to Washington DC
for duty.  Took classes, made a
tulip suncatcher and were hooked.
If Jenna Meredith is reading this
the classes were at Tysons Corner,
in the Meredith Stained Glass shop
in Falls Church.  In fact, I checked
and I bought all the basic stuff from
your shop in August 1988.  I'm
still using the original Wiz grinder.
Most of our products end up in the
homes of all those kids,
grandchildren and relatives
windows, and so forth, much as
most of you have noted,
We do sell some work, got to,
this stuff is too expensive to give
it all away.  We try to hit every stained
glass shop we can in our travels,
enjoyed Glass Visions this summer,
but, we learn most of the good stuff
right here on bungi and want to thank
all of you for that and for the Merediths
great job of getting us started.
Keep the good ideas coming.

Jim--
Jim Kelly
Virginia Beach VA
gcanvas@compuserve.com
Wednesday, November 18, 1998

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 02:55:07 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "Suzanne" <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: questions...
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 02:46:55 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov20.204655.0>
Precedence: bulk

Suzanne,

Calm down or you will have a stroke before the show. Your going to do fine.
As in any business you never know where your next customer will come from.
Even if you sell very little at the show, your presence will be known. The
exposure (I won't go there) will bring you customers in the future. Most
affluent people like original works of art and I'm sure yours are works of
art.

Well done business cards are excellent advertisements. If you have time make
them colorful to represent how colorful stained glass is. People love to
pass on business cards, its like they know something or somebody that others
don't. If you don't have time to get the cards done, send me the information
you want on them and I'll get some colorful cards from WalMart or Savon and
print them for you. The only cost will be for the cards and postage. I guess
maybe $10 or less.

I recently received a flyer from a SG studio on plain paper, no graphics,
just text. How boring for such a beautiful profession or hobby. I use this
flyer to teach my Desktop Publishing students what not to do.

<<Suzanne, incredibly frustrated, probably tired>> Yes to both

<<The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed>> This is
your quote. Did you laugh today?


Can't answer the "Copyright" question except to say if it is a stained glass
pattern book, they sell them to make stained glass.

Additionally, can't answer the "For Personal Use Only" question. But if it
is a pattern book ...... see above.



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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 02:57:52 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Brian Shepherd <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: FITTER RINGS-where to see
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:11:58 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Nov21.91158.0>
References: <<1998Nov19.121255.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

Brian,
Kansacraft sell these things.  I don't know what they call them though.
Steve

In message <1998Nov19.121255.0@?>, Brian Shepherd <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
writes
>Something else not available through stained glass suppliers in this
>country!!!
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Charles Warner <charles@warner-criv.com>
>To: bungi <glass@bungi.com>
>Date: 18 November 1998 19:04
>Subject: Re: FITTER RINGS-where to see
>
>
>>>A fitter is actually a fitter ring, which is a brass ring with a 2-1/4,
>>3-1/4
>>>or 4 inch opening that is used in place of a vase cap to fit around the
>>socket
>>>in lamps such as goosenecks or torchiers.  If you have a Warner catalog,
>>they
>>>are shown on page 122.    The fixture that it's used on would have to have
>>>screws around the socket and you would tighten the screws down on the
>>outside
>>>of the fitter ring to hold the shade in place
>>
>>To see a brief description and illustration of the fitter rings go to
>>http://www.warner-criv.com/product.asp?pf%5Fid=3663%2D20
>>
>>Charles Warner
>>Warner-Crivellaro
>>
>>----
>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>----
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-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 03:05:03 1998
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
Subject: Re: To stretch or not to stretch (long)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:34:45 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Nov21.93445.0>
References: <<1998Nov19.192610.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

In message <1998Nov19.192610.0@?>, "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
writes
>Flying across the room into the drafting table when stretching lead isn't
>much fun.  I conceded to not knowing the leads strength or mine (I've
>busted lug nuts off wheels when changing a tire), now cut the 6 foot
>strips in half so I can reach the vise to make sure its teeth have a good
>grab on the lead.  If it does break I can catch my balance before I reach
>the drafting table.  Someday will buy the other "half" of the stretcher
>gizmo.    Karen


Karen,
If you tap the lead vice down onto the came, you will make small tooth
marks, which, if you keep the lead came in slight tension, will hold the
came securely.  You can also see, by watching the top lever on the vice,
when the grip is slipping  -  the lever begins to "fall" down.

I don't really think you need to spend whatever dollars are being
requested for the came stretcher gizmo.

Steve

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 03:18:02 1998
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Bob the Dinosaur <shyguy@vdot.net>
Subject: Re: To stretch or not to stretch (long)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:27:33 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Nov21.92733.0>
References: <<1998Nov19.95612.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

Bob,
Thanks for the technical description of why stretched came is stiffer.

As for how much to stretch....   I use the lead vice and just pull until
the came resistance seems to increase.  I keep one foot behind me just
in case, though!  The amount of stretching effort varies with the size
of the came.

After stretching the came.  I then "dress" it by running my stopping
knife along all four leaves of the came.  This adds to the stiffness (if
you don't bend the came by pressing against the heart rather than just
the leaves).  It also makes it easier to slot the glass into the came
when building, especially if you are using rounded came rather than
flat.  Although it is good on flat too.

Steve

In message <1998Nov19.95612.0@?>, Bob the Dinosaur <shyguy@vdot.net>
writes

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 05:14:35 1998
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X-Path: epix.net!"pmsl@epix.net"
From: Paula Smith-Lane <"pmsl@epix.net"@epix.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Need advice
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 07:18:57 -0500
Message-ID: <199811211222.HAA17751@lima.epix.net>
Organization: Prefered Customer
Precedence: bulk

Hi Susanne,
I say go for it. Do as much quality pieces as you can. If you have
photos of previous pieces, assemble them in a album. Get your business
cards, and "just do it". As you said this is an opportunity of a
lifetime. When opportunity knocks, you have to answer the door! Let your
work speak for you. Don't worry about fancy displays to showcase your
pieces. Good luck.
Paula

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 05:38:11 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon
From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: StndGlass1@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Cole Brothers website
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 07:27:05 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov21.12275.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Jenna - Somehow I am not surprised that these people have ripped off your
pattern.  I have had an uneasy feeling about them ever since they posted
testimonials about themselves on all the free boards.  I thought some of their
patterns looked familiar!
Brenda

<< Just wanted to thank you again for letting me know about our pattern being
 sold on someone else's website.  In case you are interested, here is a copy
of
 the letter that I sent to him.  I encourage everyone else who has put a
 pattern on the web anywhere to check this site
 http://www.colebrothers.com/stainedglass and click on the stepping stone
 patterns link to make sure that your patterns have not been stolen as well >>
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 05:44:33 1998
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From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: questions...patterns
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 07:46:13 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov21.124613.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Suzanne - If you are out of patterns, go to the Spectrum website
(www.spectrumglass.com).  There are over 100 patterns there, most with few
pieces, that could be used as the center of the stone and you could put a
border around the outside edge if you want.  I particularly like the singing
frog and trout in set 9, but there are many with fish, birds or flowers, which
seem appropriate for garden stones.

Good luck on your venture.  It seems like a golden opportunity for you!

Brenda

<< I have two more panels cut ready to be 14" stones...
 Now, I have only one original pattern left to do.  Then what? >>
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 05:59:11 1998
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From: Rich <rmaloney@epix.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Department store prices
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 08:29:29 -0800
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981121082927.0068e310@epix.net>
Precedence: bulk

Hi.

Just wondering how places like Home Depot,and other retailers can sell
stained glass lamps at such low prices. Most about 100.00  for large swag
type lamps, Even a table lanp in the 16 inch range.
I'm somewhat new to glass (three panel lamps so far)but figured the average
lamp has cost me about 60.00 for supplies and base.
 Now i really didn't look close at the quality of these mass produced lamps
but i'll bet some of you could tell at a glance  what there lacking.  

                                                 rich

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 07:17:38 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: messages
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 08:47:21 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov21.24721.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi everybody...

Thank you everyone for all your advice and ideas.  I have mellowed out
some today!  I was pretty stressed yesterday. 
Yesterday morning shortly after I had emailed and signed myself chicken,
I got my daily dose of chicken soup delivered from the chicken soup for
the soul website...I thought it was pretty cool, and I guess I needed to
hear that message.  Here it is for the rest of you...

> Song of the Bird
>    
>        A man found an eagle's egg and put it in a nest of a 
>   barnyard hen. The eagle hatched with the brood of chicks and 
>   grew up with them. All his life, the eagle did what the 
>   barnyard chicks did, thinking he was a barnyard chicken. He 
>   scratched the earth for worms and insects. He clucked and 
>   cackled. And he would thrash his wings and fly a few feet in 
>   the air.
>        Years passed and the eagle grew very old. One day he 
>   saw a magnificent bird above him in the cloudless sky. It 
>   glided in graceful majesty among powerful wind currents, 
>   with scarcely a beat of its strong golden wings. The old 
>   eagle looked up in awe. "Who's that?" he asked. "That's the 
>   eagle, the king of the birds," said his neighbor. "He 
>   belongs to the sky. We belong to the earth - we're 
>   chickens." So the eagle lived and died a chicken, for that's 
>   what he thought he was.
>   
>                       By Anthony DeMello

I am a *unique* stained glass artist.  lol...that about covers it! ;o)

I have alot more ideas than I could remember last night when I was so
tired and stressed.  Even have patterns made for some of them...it'll be
ok.  Any have an angel pattern they want to share...I'd gladly accept
though.

Truthfully, I will be glad when Dec 7th is here.

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 07:42:57 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: JKSinrod's web site
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:57:20 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov21.145720.0>
Precedence: bulk

I checked out Kim Sinrod's web site yesterday. Beautiful work! Not only that,
but the picture of the "mirror lady" is a terrific example of how to
photograph a mirror. A woman in an old-fashioned yellow dress and broad-
brimmed hat is sitting at a round cafe' table. The photo is set up so that the
reflection in the mirror is of the kitchen. It really puts the lady "in the
scene"!

His Coney Island reminiscences are a lot of fun too (even for a kid like me
from the left coast).

And no, Kim, it's not true (as you say of your montage of pictures of you from
high-school days on) that you "got old and ugly in a hurry"! I think you've
improved with age (but then I've got a soft spot for furry-faced cuddly
guys...)


Sparks
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 08:10:17 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Shaky hands, patterns, and hot irons (was Re: English method)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:57:22 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov21.145722.0>
Precedence: bulk


In a message dated 11/20/98 2:56:39 PM, JKSinrod@aol.com wrote:

>Light box cutting causes a parallex
>problem in seeing where to cut, and in my experience as a teacher, it's much
>easier to be accurate with the more traditional method.... although more time
>consuming.

Cutting out pattern pieces and gluing them down or tracing around them with
some sort of marker is also better if, like me, you have a somewhat shaky hand
(a side effect of my meds). *Everything* I do has to be "nailed down." I use
at least twice as many push pins as Christie does (she of the Incredibly
Steady Hands (even after 3 or 4 highly caffeinated Diet Cokes)) to hold things
in place for soldering, and I do *a lot* of tack soldering. It really had her
scratching her head and thinking I was wasting a lot of time doing it. I think
she understands now that I waste a whole lot more time chasing things around
and re-aligning them if they're not nailed down!

The shaky hand is also the reason I run a REALLY HOT IRON (which the boss
referred to the other day as "close to boiling the solder" <pftthhhbpffhppft>,
I love you too, dear!). I keep the thing cranked up almost all the way and
move fast (It's an Inland Temptrol 100), it's the only way I can outrun the
shakes and get a smooth bead. I use 50/50 solder a lot for filling in gaps,
then bead over with 60/40 after it's cooled a little; the pastier 50/50 stays
put and practically eliminates the melt-through I'd get otherwise.

Letting it cool a little before running the finish bead also eliminates the
pesky "dimple" effect you can get when your solder cools if you're soldering
in a cold place.

As for using the light box...... need I say it's not just for tracing - you
can do that when gluing down pattern pieces too!


Sparks
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 08:30:02 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Chihuly over the US
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:57:18 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov21.145718.0>
Precedence: bulk

Chihuly is everywhere.......... The November issue of the USAirways in-flight
magazine *Attache'* has an eight-page article with lots of photos of his work
(my mom found the article and sent it to me, ain't she wonderful?). Pretty
amazing stuff, but for me a lot of it bears just a little too much resemblance
to those photos you see in National Geographic of weird alien tropical bottom-
of-the-sea creatures (which make me squeamish for no known reason - sad to
say, because sea anemones et al. really *are* beautiful!).

A tidbit that may shed a bit of light on why Chihuly et al. were throwing
pieces into the canal in Venice:

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

"Chihuly came up with the Float Project last year when he was in Japan. 'when
I was growing up in Tacoma you could find Japanese fishing floats on the beach
after every big storm,' he explains. Most Japanese fishermen have switched to
plastic, but Chihuly found the last remaining traditional float makerr on the
island of Hakkaido [sic] in northern Japan. The float maker, Mr. Kanamori,
joined Chihuly and his team in Nijima, a glass center south of Tokyo for a
frenzied eight days of glassblowing. Some of the floats they made were tossed
into the Pacific; future floats might be launched with labels inviting people
to add their messages to a Web site.

"Chihuly returned to Seattle from Japan with 1,200 of Mr. Kanamori's floats.
'What will you do with them?' I ask. 'Do? He sounds puzzled by the question.
'I don't know, I might hang them from a bridge. or string them together with
stainless steel wire and put them out on Lake Union....'"

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

The article goes on to say that Chihuly and his people are experimenting with
making even larger floats in lightweight plastic for larger-scale projects.
(Evidently the 3-foot-diameter glass floats aren't big enough........)


Sparks
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 08:57:34 1998
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X-Path: softhouse.com!giapet
From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Need advice
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 10:32:18 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov21.53218.0>
Precedence: bulk

Suzanne, good morning hope your rested up.  By now I know you're doing the
show...great!  I agree with Paula, you don't need a fancy display, you can
always improve your display later when time is not an issue.  Just a table
(my sister uses an old door with folding legs attach..much lighter to haul
around) covered with cloth.  If this is a xmas show you can add a little
angel hair & small string of lights if electric is available.  For spring
shows I just use pale blue sheets, at xmas it's hunter green velveteen
with a lacey ivory (vinyl type..wipes clean) tablecloth laid sideways over
the green.  I made braces that the table legs sit in and attached a 2 x 2
to that (all sits under the tablecloth) so I can lean 5 or 6 stones on end
in front of the table.  Ask your husband and sister to work on props.  How
big is your space?  10 x 10?

Please don't make the same mistake I made.  Drove myself (& family) nuts
thinking I had to have 12 of this, 24 of that, etc. all done before the
show.  I'd work 22 hours at a time, major anxiety over getting things done
in time.  Then at the show some of those "have to get done" items never
sold.  It's not worth the stress, better to do a few of each, see what
sells.  Someone posted earlier "less is more",  good advice.  Just have
fun with it and do what you can.  Your work will speak for itself.
Karen
>
>Hi Susanne,
>I say go for it. Do as much quality pieces as you can. If you have
>photos of previous pieces, assemble them in a album. Get your business
>cards, and "just do it". As you said this is an opportunity of a
>lifetime. When opportunity knocks, you have to answer the door! Let your
>work speak for you. Don't worry about fancy displays to showcase your
>pieces. Good luck.
>Paula
>
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 09:56:30 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Show advice
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 11:56:51 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov21.65651.0>
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Message text written by Suzanne:
>Do you think it is possible?  Think I ought to just get on the contact
list for next year?  Think I should dive in head first and TRY?  I dont
want to screw it up, as like I said, this is the DREAM cream of the crop
people in town to sell to.  These are the yards that are 2 acre, and
have the wrought iron fences that cost more than my house and cars
combined, and have the kind of garden that would beg for a garden stone!
Dropping $100 for a yard decoration is like me spending $1.50.>

Take what you have ready.  **VERY IMPORTANT**  Take your
brag book or photo albumn showing off other work.  This one
marketing item often brings in more commissions than anything
you might have sitting there on the table.  Make sure you have
plenty of business cards.  You might also want to take a couple
of your favorite "Stained Glass for Your Home" type design books
to let the interested see.

<For me to be ready, I would have to work major full time...need full
time help with my kids...and find display stuff.  Dont know if I can get
the help I need to pull it off.>

Can you borrow display stuff from crafty friends?  Simple indoor
display item you can build in 1 hour: buy 3 wooden window
frames with the wooden cross pieces.  Assemble them using
bi-directional hinges so that they can stand up when placed
in a Z pattern.  Install cup hooks in the center of each "pane".
Place your suncatchers/whatever on the hooks.  Looks nice,
adds height to your table display, and folds flat for easy
transporting.  Be sure to take a clean, pressed, white tablecloth
to cover the table.  Take plastic bags for your customers.  Take
a calculator.

<How much work do I need to do a one day show?  I dont even know the
hours.  Wouldnt think more than 5-8.  but ya never know.  I called the
contact gal to find out how many people are expected, the hours etc...
but only got the machine..so expecting to hear back.<

It takes me 1 1/2 hours to physically setup an 8 foot table display,
but this includes all the unpacking & cleaning of the glass items.
Takes about 30 minutes to pack up at the end of the day.  As to
getting ready for the show, allow another 1 1/2 hours for packing
up the night before the show.

Good luck.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 10:18:22 1998
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From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Fw: Bio # 72 Cheryl Parrott
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 12:00:32 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov21.7032.0>
Precedence: bulk



>Cheryl, loved your bio. .
>>
>>I am creating a line of garden art...... stepping stones,  garden
stakes,
>>and hanging- in -the wind pieces.   I have also created some pieces
using
>>recycled glass and recycled blown glass.   I started the garden stakes
>using
>>patterns out of I think it is called "Simply Outside"   Now I am happy
to
>>say I am creating my own work.
>>
>
>Have you considered putting your Garden Art originals into pattern book
>form?  A girl that taught classes where I buy glass put out a book of her
>lighthouse patterns.
>
>>
>>Usually I turn on the computer as soon as I get up just to take a peek
at
>>what might be new.  I also take a peek throughout the day.   Working at
>>home,  I still don't have the discipline it takes to stay focused.  As
>Pam
>>will attest.... I have a bad habit of getting burned out and then
vegging
>>for a long time.
>>
>
>Cheryl, being at home myself I do the same thing.  It's hard ot get it in
>gear sometimes.  Do you find that when you do finally get "focused"
>everything else goes to hell.  For me it's the worst in the winter
months,
>(the best time for glass) think the lack of sunlight and long days has a
>terrible effect on my energy level.  It's so wonderful that you do
>volunteer work too.  Thanks for sharing with us.
>Karen
>

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 10:51:58 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, rmaloney@epix.net
Subject: Department store prices
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 13:15:58, -0500
Message-ID: <199811211815.NAA12960@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>Just wondering how places like Home Depot,and other retailers can 
sell
stained glass lamps at such low prices. Most about 100.00  for large 
swag
type lamps, Even a table lanp in the 16 inch range.
I'm somewhat new to glass (three panel lamps so far)but figured the 
average
lamp has cost me about 60.00 for supplies and base.
 Now i really didn't look close at the quality of these mass produced 
lamps
but i'll bet some of you could tell at a glance  what there lacking.  


                                                 rich<<

Easy. You cut the cost of your supplies to about $10.00 and pay your 
workers somewhere between 40 and 60 cents an hour. Leaves plenty of 
room for profit.

Bob
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 11:13:05 1998
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Department store prices
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 13:05:03 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov21.853.0>
Precedence: bulk

Rich,   Would you work for a bowl of rice a day ???

Arnold

-----Original Message-----
From: Rich <rmaloney@epix.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Saturday, November 21, 1998 9:11 AM
Subject: Department store prices


>Hi.
>
>Just wondering how places like Home Depot,and other retailers can sell
>stained glass lamps at such low prices. Most about 100.00  for large swag
>type lamps, Even a table lanp in the 16 inch range.
>I'm somewhat new to glass (three panel lamps so far)but figured the average
>lamp has cost me about 60.00 for supplies and base.
> Now i really didn't look close at the quality of these mass produced lamps
>but i'll bet some of you could tell at a glance  what there lacking.
>
>                                                 rich
>
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 12:21:25 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com" <Witchdoc3@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: JKSinrod's web site
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 14:43:29 -0500
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Hi Sparks-

Great sales pitch for Kim, but how
about the URL for us dodos who
killed their computers in the past
week!  TIA! ;-)

Best,

Dani
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 12:46:53 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:BMarhon@aol.com" <BMarhon@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Cole Brothers website
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 14:43:25 -0500
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I stopped by their website and to
their credit they at least give acknowledgment
for three of  the stones to Linda McNiel
and Lois Hart of Country Lane Stained
Glass Walk-Ons.  And, they don't exactly
claim the designs are of their making.
Nonetheless, it's not nice to sell someone
elses work even for a measly $2 -$3 per
pattern (to cover the cost of paper and =

printing).

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 12:52:48 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Rich <rmaloney@epix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Department store prices
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 14:43:32 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov21.94332.0>
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Hi Rich-

Those lamps at Home Depot are
made in China and some of them =

are very well made and a real bargain
for the price.  I send lots of people to
those places for lamps when they =

can't or won't pay my prices - which
admittedly are quite high since we do
only original designs and hate building
lamps!  I'm also glad to spend a few
moments explaining some basic good
craftsmanship characteristics so they
know what to look for.  And, I tell them =

to check at antique stores which often
carry these *new lamps;-), and at places
like Hobby Lobby.  And, of course, I
point out to everyone that these cheap
lamp prices are only a temporary thing....
just basic economics.... China's prices
will start climbing, too, before long.  So,
hang in there you lampmakers, and use
the opportunity to make cooler and better
lamps.  And, heck, think about buying one
of those lamps from Home Depot... the
more they sell, the faster the prices will
go up if China can't meet the demand!
;-)

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 13:08:50 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr
From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: more advice for suzanne de tulsa
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 14:48:30 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov21.194830.0>
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Hey Suzanne,

Someone mentioned Christmas lights, I helped a friend set up a show at a local
college and we used battery operated clear Christmas lights and lit candles in
some of the candle holders.  (I was dumbfounded they did not make her
extinguish the candles) I used iridescent cellphone type paper (used inside
gifts bags) and a few mirror squares.  The crunched up paper disguised the
wires from the lights and the mirrors did a nice job of reflecting. 

I think you are making a wise choice doing a pre Christmas show.  At Christmas
I am more tempted to buy things, I always rationalize that it is going to be a
Christmas gift for someone, a lot harder to use that rationalization in spring
or summer.    

Best of luck,

Pat
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 13:13:54 1998
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From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Department store prices (I am on my soap box)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:16:17 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov21.201617.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hey guys,

Last Christmas I was in Tijuana doing the tourist thing.  Noticed the small
shops selling stained glass.  My bud and I got a round panel about (ok, gonna
go get the ruler) 13" across and one approximately 20" (maybe bigger) for $43
and some change (our life savings at the moment).  The work is not perfect,
but acceptable.  However, there is a down side to this story.  When I went
back later in the year, the store owners willingly took me into the workrooms
in back of the shops.  I saw what appeared to be whole families working on
glass.  None of us would work under those conditions.  Young children
soldering holding large rods of lead, grandmas copper foiling, I saw guys
making bevels in the alley without any face protection.  I am sure you can
imagine the rest.  Everyone talked to me, but since I don't speak the language
I have no idea what anyone was trying to tell me, only the actual salesmen
spoke to me in English.  My kids are sitting here playing Nintendo (and
fighting) and children their age are risking their health working with glass
and lead.  The quest for the mighty American dollar. I don't pretend to have
all the answers, let alone any of the answers.  If we don't buy it do they
eat, do they have a roof over their heads? If we buy it are we sentencing them
to a life of health problems?   

Ok, off my soap box..........

Take care all,

Pat
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 13:56:51 1998
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X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: To stretch or not to stretch? (long)
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 20:39:58 +0000
Message-ID: <199811212047.UAA08815@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,

Again, Elizabeth in Bournemouth is coming up trumps with a good, 
solid and knowledgable argument for lead-stretching.
I was taught by the "Old Boys" who took me on in London rather 
paternally,  that stretching it helps to "anneal" it (which I 
suppose is roughly meant by saying that it strengthens/hardens it).
I have sung the virtue of Stillemans lead before and lamented the  
fact that we in England even need to import decent lead. Stilleman's 
lead is made in Belgium. There used to be 2 other English 
manufacturers, of which I know that at least one is still in 
existance (British Lead Mills, somewhere in Yorkshire). But the 
problem was always,  that is was unreliable in the way it was 
extruded, meaning, the heart was often "off-centre" and just could 
not be used but had to be returned. I was also never very fond of the 
"squidgy" but sharp feel  of the BLM lead. Elizabeth is quite 
right in pointing out the 3 different grades, and that the 
"half-hard" is the one most favoured. I will occasionally work with 
"string-lead" (also called cabinet lead), which is a total "fiend" to 
work with, for internal panels needing fine details. I enjoy the 
challenge of working with this lead. It is a much softer lead and you 
need to be quite careful when stretching it, because you can really  
easily add an extra 12 - 18 inches to the length of it, which is not 
necessarily desirable.
I would NEVER use a length of lead without having stretched it 
before. And after I had stretched it, I will treat it like a 
delicate, fragile baby, taking every precaution not to bruise or kink 
it. I curl it up like a flat pancake.... like  ropes on a ship's 
deck. That is also how I teach my students to transport their 
leads about.If you are a one man/woman and a lead vice "team", there 
are quite simple precautions and techiques you can take to avoid 
landing on your posterior. I think it was Vic that pointed out to 
make sure you tap down the vice grip good and proper. But at the 
other end of the lead, much depends on how you stand and distribute 
your body weight and balance. One foot in front of the other, with 
slightly bended knees, leaning slightly forward.. DO NOT LEAN 
BACKWARDS!!  Make sure your knees and feet carry you, should the lead 
snap. Pull with your arms and not with your body, then you won't lose 
your balance. Make sure your feet and knees are flexible. Once you 
have got the knack of stretching lead, you will just FEEL and SEE the 
right amount to stretch (which is before it snaps!!)

....Back to catching up.... back to part-lurking....
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

> The manufacturer of the lead came we use and sell in our shop (retail store)
> makes lead came in three different grades. 
> Soft
> Half-hard
> Hard
> Our suppliers import the half-hard came unless specially ordered, so anyone
> in the UK buying Stillemans lead will usually have the half-hard version.
> This is not soft and floppy except for the very narrow 1/8th inch (3 mm)
> string lead.
> Our practice is to stretch it on one of two occasions
> 1.  To remove any kinks in the lead
> 2.  To assist in assembly when making windows with mainly squares or diamond
> shapes.  Thus it is easier to keep the lead lines straight and to pattern.
> We find that to stretch this half-hard lead willynilly causes problems
> especially when the lead needs to be curved around intricately shaped glass
> pieces, as it is too stiff to take up the shape exactly - requiring
> excessive use of the maxim "if it doesnt fit - hit it with a hammer".
> In our area there are several tutors who insist that all lead must be
> stretched before use.  The reasons they give are many and various, one being
> that by stretching the lead the molecular structure is altered and thus
> renders the lead stronger, another being that it makes the lead go further
> enabling less lead to be purchased ;-)
> If this molecular change is a vital part of working with lead came does
> anyone out there actually manage to stretch 3/4 lead (20mm)?  Most normal
> mortals would be hard pushed to stretch this wide lead to any great amount.
> Elizabeth
> Bournemouth Stained Glass
> http://www.stainedglass.co.uk
> 
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> 
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Subject: Re: Fwd: English method
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:29:25 -0500
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References: <<1998Nov20.94240.0>>
Organization: Cox's Mower Service
Precedence: bulk



Welcome to the Aging Boomers Club!
Dani Greer wrote:

> I have a bit of a problem cutting
> extremely accurately on a light box because
> of my eyesight.... very near-sighted and, now,
> alas, at that age where I probably could =
>
> really stand to wear bi-focals (gack!)



--
'Every (person) must decide whether to walk in the light of creative
altruism or the darkness of selfishness. This is the judgement. Life's
most persistent and urgent question is "What are you doing for
others?' "Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.


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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 15:29:27 1998
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From: JKSinrod@aol.com
To: YWAH36A@prodigy.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Department store prices
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:19:59 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov21.221959.0>
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In a message dated 11/21/98 1:52:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
YWAH36A@prodigy.com writes:

<< Subj:	 Department store prices
 Date:	11/21/98 1:52:45 PM Eastern Standard Time
 From:	YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
 To:	glass@bungi.com, rmaloney@epix.net
 
 >>Just wondering how places like Home Depot,and other retailers can 
 sell
 stained glass lamps at such low prices. Most about 100.00  for large 
 swag
 type lamps, Even a table lanp in the 16 inch range.
 I'm somewhat new to glass (three panel lamps so far)but figured the 
 average
 lamp has cost me about 60.00 for supplies and base.
  Now i really didn't look close at the quality of these mass produced 
 lamps
 but i'll bet some of you could tell at a glance  what there lacking.  
 
  >>
Made overseas and in 3rd world nations where the cost of labor is a piece of
bread and a bar of candy. Even though the quality is poor, its hard for people
to justify paying us $$$ for a beautiful 300 piece shade, when they can be
bought for $99!!
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 15:44:47 1998
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From: JKSinrod@aol.com
To: GreerStudios@compuserve.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: JKSinrod's web site
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:22:56 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov21.222256.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 11/21/98 3:22:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
GreerStudios@compuserve.com writes:

<< Subj:	 JKSinrod's web site
 Date:	11/21/98 3:22:07 PM Eastern Standard Time
 From:	GreerStudios@compuserve.com (Dani Greer)
 To:	Witchdoc3@aol.com (INTERNET:Witchdoc3@aol.com)
 
 Hi Sparks-
 
 Great sales pitch for Kim, but how
 about the URL for us dodos who
 killed their computers in the past
 week!  TIA! ;-)
 
 Best,
 
 Dani
 ---- >>
 <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JKSinrod/sinrod.html">Sinrod Stained Glass
Studios</A> 
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 15:49:26 1998
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Department store prices
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:19:03 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov21.12193.0>
Precedence: bulk

Just fooling Rich....I don't know if they were made in China.  I have a
catalog of shades from a Chinese company showing the wisteria shade in 22"
size for $189.00. [that is in China....for export]  If I were to custom make
that shade I'd want $1000.00 for it.  It would take me at least a month to
do it.  Must have hundreds of pieces.  I'd go blind and give up the art in
disgust when finished.

Arnold

-----Original Message-----
From: Rich <rmaloney@epix.net>
To: Granny And PawPaw <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
Date: Saturday, November 21, 1998 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: Department store prices


>Jeese take it easy there arni!
>I said i didn't know anything about them..
>
>At 01:05 PM 11/21/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>Rich,   Would you work for a bowl of rice a day ???
>>
>>Arnold
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Rich <rmaloney@epix.net>
>>To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
>>Date: Saturday, November 21, 1998 9:11 AM
>>Subject: Department store prices
>>
>>
>>>Hi.
>>>
>>>Just wondering how places like Home Depot,and other retailers can sell
>>>stained glass lamps at such low prices. Most about 100.00  for large swag
>>>type lamps, Even a table lanp in the 16 inch range.
>>>I'm somewhat new to glass (three panel lamps so far)but figured the
average
>>>lamp has cost me about 60.00 for supplies and base.
>>> Now i really didn't look close at the quality of these mass produced
lamps
>>>but i'll bet some of you could tell at a glance  what there lacking.
>>>
>>>                                                 rich
>>>
>>>----
>>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>
>>----
>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>
>>

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 16:39:41 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!wernecke
From: Steve Wernecke <wernecke@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Cole Brothers
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:16:27 -0800
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981121151627.00daa100@popd.ix.netcom.com>
References: <<1998Nov20.17516.0>>
Precedence: bulk

At 10:51 PM 11/20/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Thanks for spreading the word, Jenna.
>This is how we hold people accountable
>within the industry.  Just out of curiosity,
>are your patterns registered with the
>Library of Congress (copyright office)?
>If so, do you batch copyright.... in other =
>
>words, send a collection of photos/patterns
>under one title page for the $20 fee?  Does
>anyone else have experience with this?
>I tend to be rather lax with copyright knowing
>that the law leans in favor of the original
>artist and our work isn't too easily "stolen"
>anyway.... not to mention that it can get
>expensive if you produce a lot of work.  That's
>why I'm particularly interested in "batching"
>small collections of completed windows
>of original design under one title and one fee.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Dani Greer
>

I'm not a lawyer so take the following with a grain of salt.  I learned
just enough about copyright stuff to be dangerous a few years back when I
had to register the copyright some software I had written.  My recollection
is that you get copyright protection simply by placing a legal copyright
notice on your work.  Legal means the C-in-circle (or "copyright" spelled
out), name of the person or organization claiming copyright, and the year.
(If memory serves, the "all rights reserved" phrase that is often seen has
something to do with preserving rights in Latin America, not the U.S.)  If
you publish something without a legal copyright notice, even for a short
time, you've opened Pandora's box.  There are ways to remedy a missing or
defective copyright notice, but the best approach is not to get in this
situation in the first place.

Registering a copyright is *not* required to claim one; however,
registration is a prerequisite for taking someone to court for a copyright
violation.  It is not necessary to have registered the copyright before the
infringement occurred, but I think the order does affect whether or not the
copyright holder can claim triple damages.  

I'm not sure how easy it is for people to find out if a copyright has been
registered.  The no-hassle way to proceed is simply to make sure you afix
legal notice to your work and then bluff.  If you do go the registration
route, it's certainly not likely to be cost effective to register patterns
individually.  

Like I said, I'm not a lawyer so the above is not advice that anyone should
depend on.  Nolo Press publishes a low-cost book on dealing with copyrights
and other forms of intellectual property.  Check it out if these issues
affect you.

Steve
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 16:45:41 1998
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From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, glass@intrastar.net
Subject: Imported stained glass
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 18:23:17, -0500
Message-ID: <199811212323.SAA10984@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>Hey guys,

Last Christmas I was in Tijuana doing the tourist thing.  Noticed the 
small
shops selling stained glass.  My bud and I got a round panel about 
(ok, gonna
go get the ruler) 13" across and one approximately 20" (maybe bigger) 
for $43
and some change (our life savings at the moment).  The work is not 
perfect,
but acceptable.  However, there is a down side to this story.  When I 
went
back later in the year, the store owners willingly took me into the 
workrooms
in back of the shops.  I saw what appeared to be whole families 
working on
glass.  None of us would work under those conditions.  Young 
children
soldering holding large rods of lead, grandmas copper foiling, I saw 
guys
making bevels in the alley without any face protection.  I am sure 
you can
imagine the rest.  Everyone talked to me, but since I don't speak the 
language
I have no idea what anyone was trying to tell me, only the actual 
salesmen
spoke to me in English.  My kids are sitting here playing Nintendo 
(and
fighting) and children their age are risking their health working 
with glass
and lead.  The quest for the mighty American dollar. I don't pretend 
to have
all the answers, let alone any of the answers.  If we don't buy it do 
they
eat, do they have a roof over their heads? If we buy it are we 
sentencing them
to a life of health problems?   

Ok, off my soap box..........

Take care all,

Pat<<

Well, IMO Pat has stated the case rather well. I will continue to buy 
whatever pleases me that is offered in stores that I shop in. I do 
fell better now that the USA spends large $$$ to help under developed 
countries. It tends to argument the low price of SG lamps & panels.

I remain of the belief that people that buy cheap imported 
lamps/panels are not likely to buy a fine SG lamp/panel. Perhaps the 
cheap item will encourage then to someday buy a quality product. So 
there can be a silver lining to this problem. Cheap imports tend to 
raise the conscience of people to the real thing.

Bob
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 17:00:11 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!wernecke
From: Steve Wernecke <wernecke@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: questions...
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:44:35 -0800
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981121154435.00dafdc0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
References: <<1998Nov20.172240.0>>
Precedence: bulk

At 11:22 PM 11/20/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>I had plans for the glass I just purchased...family christmas presents,
>that were from Tiffany Garden pattern books. One of the books
>says..."For personal use only" Pretty clear to me.
>The other one doesnt, but is copyrighted.  I have seen stones from that
>book all over the internet for sale.  What gives?  Anybody know? 
>
>It isnt like I have time to be researching copyrights right now, and I
>dont have any design software.  So now what do I do?
>
>Suzanne, incredibly frustrated, probably tired.
>-- 

Not being a lawyer, I'm getting further out on a limb here...

A copyright protects the expression of an idea, not the idea itself.  (For
those of you interested in mathematics, the distinction is why equations
can't be copyrighted.)  If you were to make and sell an exact replica of a
stained glass panel that had a legal copyright notice affixed, I'd say you
copied the expression of an idea and are guilty of copyright infringement.
If you kept it for yourself or gave it to a family member, you're probably
still guilty technically but are a lot less likely to get caught.  (If you
actually went to the trouble of asking the copyright owner for permission
to make a single copy for yourself, the reasonable ones would probably say
sure, the jerks would say you had to buy it from them.)

To my way of thinking, the line drawings published in typical pattern books
are different expressions of ideas than are the stained glass works that
result from them.  If the line drawings are what you're starting from, I'd
say no problem.  (If, however, you reprint without permission the same line
drawing--that is the same expressions of an idea--in a pattern book you
publish, you're in trouble.)

Things get murkier if you base your work on a copyrighted color photograph
of someone's stained glass piece.  There's also a gray area dealing with
"derivative works" that may give pattern publishers stronger protection
than I'm imagining.  That stronger protection, if it exists, probably came
out of a court case.

Same disclaimer as in my last post...I'm not a lawyer so the above is not
advice that anyone should depend on.  Nolo Press publishes a low-cost book
on dealing with copyrights and other forms of intellectual property.  Check
it out if these issues affect you.

Steve


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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 17:41:58 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Department store prices/made in China
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:52:11 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov21.85211.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Arnold, as a lampmaker, just look at the arithmetic for a "living wage"
$189.00 (retail) means 2 markups at least. Wage in china $3.00 per week or
less, and all the abuse they can handle......better them than me!

You would have all the expenses and spend at LEAST 1 month for $1,000.

My making the "classic" original 18" 3000+piece  wisteria sells for a MEASLY
$14,000 or there abouts.

<Just fooling Rich....I don't know if they were made in China.  I have a
catalog of shades from a Chinese company showing the wisteria shade in 22"
size for $189.00. [that is in China....for export]  If I were to custom make
that shade I'd want $1000.00 for it.  It would take me at least a month to
do it.  Must have hundreds of pieces.  I'd go blind and give up the art in
disgust when finished.>

Arnold

No insult intended, H

weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard   best lamps on the "net"
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 18:07:22 1998
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X-Path: hotmail.com!moondancer44
From: "Linda Johnson" <moondancer44@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com, rmaloney@epix.net
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: Department store prices
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:17:01 PST
Message-ID: <1998Nov22.1171.0>
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Rich
I've come to the conclusion that these lamps are probably made on 
assembly line in some poverished country where the employees are lucky 
if they take home $10/week US money.  Linda  

>From owner-glass@daver.bungi.com Sat Nov 21 06:15:35 1998
>Received: from daver.bungi.com (daver.bungi.com [207.126.97.2])
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>X-Path: epix.net!rmaloney
>From: Rich <rmaloney@epix.net>
>To: glass@bungi.com
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Subject: Department store prices
>Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 08:29:29 -0800
>Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981121082927.0068e310@epix.net>
>Precedence: bulk
>
>Hi.
>
>Just wondering how places like Home Depot,and other retailers can sell
>stained glass lamps at such low prices. Most about 100.00  for large 
swag
>type lamps, Even a table lanp in the 16 inch range.
>I'm somewhat new to glass (three panel lamps so far)but figured the 
average
>lamp has cost me about 60.00 for supplies and base.
> Now i really didn't look close at the quality of these mass produced 
lamps
>but i'll bet some of you could tell at a glance  what there lacking.  
>
>                                                 rich
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 19:03:26 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Steve Wernecke <wernecke@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Copyright wasCole Brothers
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:27:25 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov21.162725.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Steve-

We have some fabulous stuff in the bungi
archives on copyright, too, in case you =

haven't checked there.  But, I still haven't =

gotten any feedback specifically on batch
copyrights.  Seems so simple and so =

cheap, I'm surprised we don't all "buy"
the extra insurance it gives us.  Most of
us already put a copyright symbol on our
designs, websites, etc., but that won't stop
a really brazen thief (or even my neighbor
at the sign shop down the street who is
constantly stealing stuff off the Net and
using it to print his so-called custom
signs!)  Anyway, I appreciate your insights...
thanks!

Best regards,

Dani Greer
www.igga.org/greer/ =

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 19:19:02 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:gunnx4@ix.netco" <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Cole Brothers website
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:27:23 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov21.162723.0>
Precedence: bulk


---------- Forwarded Message ----------

From:	INTERNET:Luanne6556@aol.com, INTERNET:Luanne6556@aol.com
TO:	(unknown), GreerStudios
DATE:	11/21/98 9:12 PM

RE:	Re: Cole Brothers website

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    I too am a victim of Cole Brothers stealing my design from the Spectr=
um
web site. =

My name is Luanne Kane and I was fortunate enough to have Spectrum publis=
h one
of my hummingbird patterns.  Cole Brothers (without my permission) placed=
 my
pattern for sale.  I sent them a stop and desist letter.  Their response =
was
"I thought if it was on the Spectrum page, I could distribute it."
Distribute, yes, SELL, NO.  Big difference.  Since then, Cole Brothers
rearranged the pattern slightly and it is still on their page.  I am a fi=
rm
believer in "What goes around, comes around" and that living well is the =
best
revenge.  I am thankful that I do have ORIGINAL thoughts and do not have =
to
attempt to make a living in this despicable manner.  I have been a staine=
d
glass artist for 20 years and am very generous with my pattern designs.  =

     By the way, Patrick, when you read this, I am working on my BIO, it =
is
the HARDEST thing to write.  Will send it along ASAP.    =

     LUANNE KANE
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 20:13:29 1998
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Cole Brothers
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:30:49 +0000
Message-ID: <199811220322.WAA07196@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
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> I'm not a lawyer so take the following with a grain of salt. 

>From an article by a copyright lawyer, Matt Prusik, in Common Ground: 
Glass at 

Since the United States agreed to adhere to the terms of the Berne
Convention on Copyright in 1989, a
  work is "protected" (in terms of the legal effectiveness of an
  owner's copyright) from the moment in time the work if "fixed" in a
  tangible medium. In other words, once you create a stained glass
  design and complete the design, once you finish writing a story on
  paper or once you complete the lyrics or musical score for a song;
  according to the law your copyright is protected.


You can read the rest of it at http://www.igga.org/  Click on "Common 
Ground: Glass," then on Fall '96. The article's called "Intellectual 
Property Rights."

Albert
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 21:12:37 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Steve Wernecke <wernecke@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: !  Re: questions...
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:55:27 -0600
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> To my way of thinking, the line drawings published in typical pattern books
> are different expressions of ideas than are the stained glass works that
> result from them.  If the line drawings are what you're starting from, I'd
> say no problem.  (If, however, you reprint without permission the same line
> drawing--that is the same expressions of an idea--in a pattern book you
> publish, you're in trouble.)
> 
> Things get murkier if you base your work on a copyrighted color photograph
> of someone's stained glass piece.  There's also a gray area dealing with
> "derivative works" that may give pattern publishers stronger protection
> than I'm imagining.  That stronger protection, if it exists, probably came
> out of a court case.
> 
> Same disclaimer as in my last post...I'm not a lawyer so the above is not
> advice that anyone should depend on.  Nolo Press publishes a low-cost book
> on dealing with copyrights and other forms of intellectual property.  Check
> it out if these issues affect you.
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
Not to worry, mine is so much prettier they would never confuse it for
the original! ;o)  Lol...Just kidding!!!

Seriously...I tend to use parts of different patterns for my own ideas.
I have lots of ideas...but my drawing skills are very rusty...and I
often need to look at something while I draw.  I love whales...but I can
never remember what one looks like well enough to draw a realistic one
without looking at a photo.  I took lots of drawing classes in
highschool and college...got mostly A's...was ok...but, now you would
never know it.  

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
----
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 22:19:08 1998
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From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Department store prices
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 00:45:52 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov22.54552.0>
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In a message dated 11/21/98 11:20:02 AM Pacific Standard Time,
grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net writes:

<< Rich,   Would you work for a bowl of rice a day ??? >>

I wonder if they get free Band Aids as a perk.
----
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 23:15:35 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Worker bee...
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 00:13:12 -0600
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Been workin....

Since yesterday after noon, I have cut the glass for 4 14" rounds, and 2
16" hex stones.  Man, running out of glass already!  On to soldering fan
lamps I cut last week and some cross light catchers.  I've just been
popping with ideas today!...Thinking Christmas.  Made some really pretty
poinsettias out of some red/orange bulls eye.  On the smooth side of the
glass the color was perfect for poinsettias.  The price tag on my glass
said 1983~!!!!  ;o)

I love this cross I have...just really really really hope that the
problem I had with my soldering really was caused by the 16 yr old
foil!  I'll scan it when it is soldered.  Think I will tack it tonight,
too tired now to attempt to solder it.  Wish me luck.
I started about 8:45 this morning.  Just stopped, and will go back to
tack the cross then hit the sack.

Tomorrow first thing, I will solder that cross, then do concrete work
for glass I have waiting for more stones than I want to pour in one
day... I have 8 lined up to pour.  All my molds will be full all at
once. Then back to foiling fans and soldering.  Hopefully I will get all
that done, and back to cutting by late afternoon, or after dinner.

Meanwhile, My parents are coming up to celebrate Grandparents day with
my daughter at her school, they will be here for 2 days.  Luckily my mom
is the best ever...so she will do whatever needs to be done...you never
have to ask her.  She is really the best! ;o)

Hope you are all having good ones.

Suzanne, Tulsa
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
----
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 21 23:38:31 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Department store prices
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 00:50:12 -0600
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> << Rich,   Would you work for a bowl of rice a day ??? >>
> 
> I wonder if they get free Band Aids as a perk.

made me laugh as I have 3 sore fingers on my right hand.  Those little
bitty cuts that get really sore and take forever to heal in the cold
weather!

It really is so sad though that people really live like that in many
parts of the world.  I saw a show a while back about the little girls
over seas that work in the toy factories.  **US companies contracting
for cheap labor.  Makes me ill.  Fat cat executives...paying next to
nothing for labor.  Little girls making toys for other children that
they will never be able to own.  And we can buy them for less than an
hours wage.  We are very fortunate.

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
----
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 22 07:16:12 1998
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: CncptThnkr@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Department store prices (I am on my soap box)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 18:44:23 -0600
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Right, they don't eat... so they try to go to a "better" country.... in
your case USA, here it is the Nicaraguans coming to Costa Rica.  Many
Mexicans don't make it alive to the USA... Sad.... And after hurricane
Mitch, worse.  Meg

At 03:16 PM 11/21/1998 EST, CncptThnkr@aol.com wrote:
>Hey guys,
>
>Last Christmas I was in Tijuana doing the tourist thing.  Noticed the small
>shops selling stained glass.  My bud and I got a round panel about (ok, gonna
>go get the ruler) 13" across and one approximately 20" (maybe bigger) for $43
>and some change (our life savings at the moment).  The work is not perfect,
>but acceptable.  However, there is a down side to this story.  When I went
>back later in the year, the store owners willingly took me into the workrooms
>in back of the shops.  I saw what appeared to be whole families working on
>glass.  None of us would work under those conditions.  Young children
>soldering holding large rods of lead, grandmas copper foiling, I saw guys
>making bevels in the alley without any face protection.  I am sure you can
>imagine the rest.  Everyone talked to me, but since I don't speak the
language
>I have no idea what anyone was trying to tell me, only the actual salesmen
>spoke to me in English.  My kids are sitting here playing Nintendo (and
>fighting) and children their age are risking their health working with glass
>and lead.  The quest for the mighty American dollar. I don't pretend to have
>all the answers, let alone any of the answers.  If we don't buy it do they
>eat, do they have a roof over their heads? If we buy it are we sentencing
them
>to a life of health problems?   
>
>Ok, off my soap box..........
>
>Take care all,
>
>Pat
>----
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>
RICHARD AND MEG LAVAL
Apdo 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA

PHONE 645-5052 or 645-5419
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 22 08:14:52 1998
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From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>, "Richard LaVal" <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Department store prices (I am on my soap box)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 11:00:54 -0500
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Meg, you are so right.  Just saw on the news they arrested a smuggling ring.
There were charging $20,000 or more a person to bring them to US.  I can't
imagine how these people can come up with that kind of money.  Shows how
desperate they are to come here or really how desperate they are to LEAVE
THERE!                  Karen

>
>Right, they don't eat... so they try to go to a "better" country.... in
>your case USA, here it is the Nicaraguans coming to Costa Rica.  Many
>Mexicans don't make it alive to the USA... Sad.... And after hurricane
>Mitch, worse.  Meg
>


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From owner-glass Sun Nov 22 12:15:42 1998
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X-Path: email.msn.com!bird_cage
From: "Doug Parrott" <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
To: <Glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Bio # 72 Cheryl Parrott
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 11:25:15 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov22.32515.0>
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Karen,

Thank you,

>>Have you considered putting your Garden Art originals into pattern book
>>form?  A girl that taught classes where I buy glass put out a book of her
>>lighthouse patterns.


I may in time do just that.  Right now I am working on increasing the line
itself.   thank you for the works of encouragement.

>>Cheryl, being at home myself I do the same thing.  It's hard ot get it in
>>gear sometimes.  Do you find that when you do finally get "focused"
>>everything else goes to hell.

Oh yes indeed.   either my glass is going good or the house looks great.
Can't seem to get a good balance on that one.
The last few months have been the worst for me.  I burned myself out and
then now, I seem to be going in a dozen different directions.
After my short respite about to Canada I am ready to cut glass and solder to
my hearts content.    Although,  first I think I will do a little
rearranging in my shop.   I need to figure out a good way to stash all my
scrap glass.  I have it sorted by color.  The boxes of glass are getting a
bit overwhelming.

Cheryl

>
>----
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 22 12:36:34 1998
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From: "Doug Parrott" <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
To: "bungi group" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Victoria BC and Carol Swann
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 11:18:12 -0800
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Hi,

I had the privilege this week to drive up to Canada and meet Carol Swann and
see her beautiful work at the Out of Hands show in Victoria B.C.    She is a
wonderful person with a great sense of humor and very interesting.  Her
glass work is exquisite.   You can easily see her love for nature in her
work.   Her background as a marine biologist is quite apparent in her
original pieces both in colors and designs.

Carol,  I really enjoyed the visit and I do hope you will be able to get
some rest and lick that asthma.   And Pam,  I wish you could have come up
with me.   We will have to make the jaunt to Victoria together and meet up
with Carol.  You will love her.

Victoria B.C. is a very beautiful city, filled with charm, history and
culture and many many friendly people.  The Leonardo Di Vinci (sp) exhibit
is at the Royal Museum.  I took a short tour of it and was quite impressed.
Wow!!!  I was even fortunate to make acquaintance with another stained glass
exhibitor who lives in Vancouver Canada and is originally from Poland.   We
plan on becoming e-mail buddies.





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From owner-glass Sun Nov 22 13:44:18 1998
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
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Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------2144372B488E"
Subject: Re: Bio # 72 Cheryl Parrott
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:11:12 -0800
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------2144372B488E
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I have attached a picture of what I do with my scrap glass.  I sell the
stones for $20 and they sell OK.  But I sell the instructions and the
scrap glass,  I don't have much scrap glass anymore.
Also you can make glass pentants with your scrap glass.   Or mosasics.
Just thought I would share.
Shirley B

  I need to figure out a good way to stash all my
> scrap glass.  I have it sorted by color.  The boxes of glass are getting a
> bit overwhelming.
> 
> Cheryl
> 
> >

--------------2144372B488E
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--------------2144372B488E--

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From owner-glass Sun Nov 22 14:16:56 1998
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com
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	for rglass-42; Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:12:20 -0800 (PST)
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------9E732A7F27A9CDF408258212"
Subject: Friendship Quilt Glass Exchange
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:09:01 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov22.591.0>
Organization: Stained Glass Artists/Moswood Mountain Limited
Precedence: bulk


--------------9E732A7F27A9CDF408258212
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Hi all,

I received an interesting correspondence yesterday from Ann Hughes.

Here is what she had to say.

First of all I would like to tell you a few things about myself.  My
name
is Ann Hughes.  I live in Easton, Pennsylvania.  I am married and have
three girls that keep me quite busy.  I am an avid stain (glasser???)
Not
sure if that is what I am or not but I love working with glass.

My idea is this.  I used to make quilts and loved it but got tired of
working with that medium so I decided to learn how to do glass so that I

could work with something other than material.  It has been a great
experience and I love it very much.  What I would like to try to do is
to
start up an exchange group with glass.  I would send you a piece of my
favorite glass, say a 5x5 piece.  When you received it you would also do

the same.  My goal is to make one quilt piece made up of glass from
everywhere I can get it.  In turn you will receive a piece of glass from
me
to use in something for yourself.

Well that is my idea and I hope you like it.  I know this is a strange
request from someone you don't know which is why I would like to send
you a
piece first so that you know I am serious about this.  I already have a
friend in Israel who is going to send me a piece.  I also have some
family
in Northern Ireland who are going to do the same.

I will look forward to hearing from you either way.  What a wonderful
way
this would be to become friends with people all over the world.

Respectfully,

Ann Hughes

********************************************
I replied to her and this was her response back to me. I'm letting you
all know and read this as I believe it's a wonderful idea!
*********************************************
Ann said:

I didn't think it would get this big but it is
getting more and more exciting each email I get from people.  I am going
to
have glass all over the place if I don't start to design this quilt
piece.
I wanted to know if it would work before I designed it but this is even
better.  I think I am getting an idea of just how many pieces of glass I

will have by the time I am done.  Can of worms huh?  Good jump in here
any
time you want and start exchanging with the others as well.  We could
have
a great time don't you think?

A friendship quilt was made up of many different
pieces of fabric given to the quilter by friends.  This is exactly what
I
want to do with the glass.  Whether it is glass I can get myself or
something I have never seen before it will be perfect for my piece.  One

lady wrote me from Turkey and she told me that the only two colours she
can
get over there are browns and greens.  Amazing thing to find out.  She
gets
most of her glass from Germany now because of that.  Oh also the glass
she
can get in Turkey is much thicker than what we have here.....almost
unuseable from what she said to me.  Even those little tidbits are
wonderful.  You can learn so much from different people.
*************************

I am exchanging with her my favorite piece of glass, in return she will
exchange with me and I want to see her piece when it's finished. I think
this idea is just great! If any of you would like to do the same then
e-mail me privately and we will set something up or I can get you in
touch with Ann.

See you

Pam *sm*

--
*********************************
The Stained Glass Artists
Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director:
Advertising & Marketing


Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

Join our live glass chat!
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.igga.org/


--------------9E732A7F27A9CDF408258212
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
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<HTML>
Hi all,

<P>I received an interesting correspondence yesterday from Ann Hughes.

<P>Here is what she had to say.

<P><B>First of all I would like to tell you a few things about myself.&nbsp;
My name</B>
<BR><B>is Ann Hughes.&nbsp; I live in Easton, Pennsylvania.&nbsp; I am
married and have</B>
<BR><B>three girls that keep me quite busy.&nbsp; I am an avid stain (glasser???)&nbsp;
Not</B>
<BR><B>sure if that is what I am or not but I love working with glass.</B>

<P><B>My idea is this.&nbsp; I used to make quilts and loved it but got
tired of</B>
<BR><B>working with that medium so I decided to learn how to do glass so
that I</B>
<BR><B>could work with something other than material.&nbsp; It has been
a great</B>
<BR><B>experience and I love it very much.&nbsp; What I would like to try
to do is to</B>
<BR><B>start up an exchange group with glass.&nbsp; I would send you a
piece of my</B>
<BR><B>favorite glass, say a 5x5 piece.&nbsp; When you received it you
would also do</B>
<BR><B>the same.&nbsp; My goal is to make one quilt piece made up of glass
from</B>
<BR><B>everywhere I can get it.&nbsp; In turn you will receive a piece
of glass from me</B>
<BR><B>to use in something for yourself.</B>

<P><B>Well that is my idea and I hope you like it.&nbsp; I know this is
a strange</B>
<BR><B>request from someone you don't know which is why I would like to
send you a</B>
<BR><B>piece first so that you know I am serious about this.&nbsp; I already
have a</B>
<BR><B>friend in Israel who is going to send me a piece.&nbsp; I also have
some family</B>
<BR><B>in Northern Ireland who are going to do the same.</B>

<P><B>I will look forward to hearing from you either way.&nbsp; What a
wonderful way</B>
<BR><B>this would be to become friends with people all over the world.</B>

<P><B>Respectfully,</B>

<P><B>Ann Hughes</B>

<P>********************************************
<BR>I replied to her and this was her response back to me. I'm letting
you all know and read this as I believe it's a wonderful idea!
<BR>*********************************************
<BR>Ann said:

<P><B>I didn't think it would get this big but it is</B>
<BR><B>getting more and more exciting each email I get from people.&nbsp;
I am going to</B>
<BR><B>have glass all over the place if I don't start to design this quilt
piece.</B>
<BR><B>I wanted to know if it would work before I designed it but this
is even</B>
<BR><B>better.&nbsp; I think I am getting an idea of just how many pieces
of glass I</B>
<BR><B>will have by the time I am done.&nbsp; Can of worms huh?&nbsp; Good
jump in here any</B>
<BR><B>time you want and start exchanging with the others as well.&nbsp;
We could have</B>
<BR><B>a great time don't you think?</B><B></B>

<P><B>A friendship quilt was made up of many different</B>
<BR><B>pieces of fabric given to the quilter by friends.&nbsp; This is
exactly what I</B>
<BR><B>want to do with the glass.&nbsp; Whether it is glass I can get myself
or</B>
<BR><B>something I have never seen before it will be perfect for my piece.&nbsp;
One</B>
<BR><B>lady wrote me from Turkey and she told me that the only two colours
she can</B>
<BR><B>get over there are browns and greens.&nbsp; Amazing thing to find
out.&nbsp; She gets</B>
<BR><B>most of her glass from Germany now because of that.&nbsp; Oh also
the glass she</B>
<BR><B>can get in Turkey is much thicker than what we have here.....almost</B>
<BR><B>unuseable from what she said to me.&nbsp; Even those little tidbits
are</B>
<BR><B>wonderful.&nbsp; You can learn so much from different people.</B>
<BR>*************************

<P>I am exchanging with her my favorite piece of glass, in return she will
exchange with me and I want to see her piece when it's finished. I think
this idea is just great! If any of you would like to do the same then e-mail
me privately and we will set something up or I can get you in touch with
Ann.

<P>See you

<P>Pam *sm*

<P>--
<BR>*********************************
<BR>The Stained Glass Artists
<BR>Pamela Burns-Tappan
<BR>Executive Director:
<BR>Advertising &amp; Marketing
<BR>&nbsp;

<P>Proud Member Of:

<P>The Stained Glass Artists
<BR><A HREF="http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html">http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html</A>

<P>Join our live glass chat!
<BR><A HREF="http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html">http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html</A>
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>The International Guild of Glass Artists
<BR><A HREF="http://www.igga.org/">http://www.igga.org/</A>
<BR>&nbsp;</HTML>

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X-Path: aol.com!JJKIRBY
From: JJKIRBY@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Department store prices
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:47:11 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov22.204711.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 11/21/98 10:39:04 PM Pacific Standard Time,
gunnx4@ix.netcom.com writes:

<< **US companies contracting
 for cheap labor.  Makes me ill.  Fat cat executives...paying next to
 nothing for labor.  Little girls making toys for other children that
 they will never be able to own.  And we can buy them for less than an
 hours wage.  We are very fortunate. >>

Don't get me wrong, I have my issues with executives - U.S. executives
are generally low performing and high paid.  And child labor is wrong,
wrong.

However it more than large corporations that take advantage of low
labor rates elsewhere... its the entrepreneur who drives his truck over
the border and buys a truckload of pavers for $10 each and sells them
for $20, and the small retailer as well who buys for $20 and sells for $30.

In a global economy, unskilled work will always migrate to the cheapest
labor pools.  

As many have stated,  as skilled American craftspeople and artists, we
need to focus on the quality of our designs and uniqueness of our work.
This is continual process, because the good stuff will continued to be 
copied and quickly degenerate.

Pavers are an excellent example.  5 to 7 years ago, nobody was doing them,
now they're showing up in my local drugstore.
----
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 22 14:57:37 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: How do you place the letters on a compass?
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:56:52 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov22.55652.0>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

I make a stepping stone compass.  And I am getting grief on how I place
the letters.  My army surplus compass has them so you can read them all
from one direction.
If you place a stone as a compass in the ground, are the letter suppose
to face in the direction that they denote, or opposite that direction.
Anyone know?
Thanks in advance.
Shirley B
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 22 15:16:24 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: glass@intrastar.net
Subject: Non glass: international aid
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 22:02:01 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Nov22.2221.0>
References: <<199811212323.SAA10984@mime3.prodigy.com>>
Precedence: bulk

OK Bob, 
I know that you and I disagree on this kind of thing, but...

The USA is currently the richest country in the world.  It may spend
large amounts of money on aid in absolute terms.  But in relative terms,
ie. per capita, expenditure on aid is very small.  Very little of the
USA aid is multilateral (such as through the UN, or other international
independent agencies).  Much is tied to benefits which will be felt in
the USA, such as equipment purchases, or consultancies.  

Even the North American Trade Agreement benefits the USA in a number of
ways.  Yes I know that US jobs have been lost as a result of the
agreement also.  

Even when the USA-dominated World Bank loans money to such as Russia or
third world countries, conditions based on advanced free trade market
ecnomics are prescribed for these countries.  Part of the sweat shop
conditions of factories in third world/ underdeveloped countries is a
consequence of innappropriate aid policies.

Just my opinion, of course.

Steve

In message <199811212323.SAA10984@mime3.prodigy.com>, BOB   DUCHESNEAU
<YWAH36A@prodigy.com> writes
>>>Hey guys,
>.......cut........
>>Ok, off my soap box..........
>
>>Take care all,
>
>Pat<<
>
>Well, IMO Pat has stated the case rather well. I will continue to buy 
>whatever pleases me that is offered in stores that I shop in. I do 
>fell better now that the USA spends large $$$ to help under developed 
>countries. It tends to argument the low price of SG lamps & panels.

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 22 15:46:11 1998
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
Subject: Re: To stretch or not to stretch? (long)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 22:21:25 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Nov22.222125.0>
References: <<199811212047.UAA08815@saturn.nildram.co.uk>>
Precedence: bulk

Eliasbeth,

I get my came (through Pearsons) for Heaps of Birmingham.  Is the stuff
you call BLM?


Stev

In message <199811212047.UAA08815@saturn.nildram.co.uk>, Toby
<toby@northlights.co.uk> writes
>Hi All,
'.....cut........
>I have sung the virtue of Stillemans lead before and lamented the  
>fact that we in England even need to import decent lead. Stilleman's 
>lead is made in Belgium. There used to be 2 other English 
>manufacturers, of which I know that at least one is still in 
>existance (British Lead Mills, somewhere in Yorkshire). But the 
>problem was always,  that is was unreliable in the way it was 
>extruded, meaning, the heart was often "off-centre" and just could 
>not be used but had to be returned. I was also never very fond of the 
>"squidgy" but sharp feel  of the BLM lead. 
.......cut.......
-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 22 15:46:15 1998
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X-Path: fair.net!andor
From: "Linda Letscher" <andor@fair.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: The Glass Eye - Is It Worth It??
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 17:29:17 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov22.122917.0>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE163D.A1DD3EC0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Greetings Folks,
A while back I downloaded the sample copy of the software, basically all =
I saw was some patterns, it lost my interest very quickly.  Just in the =
last couple of days I was looking around and found out that what they =
give you to down load to try is a sample of the software, less design =
capabilities.  I thought it sucked becuase there was no way to see what =
they were really offering, so I just deleted it.  Now that I know they =
only give you a sample of their patterns and that you have to order the =
real thing.  I would like some feedback.  Anyone using it and feel it =
was well worth the money.  I didn't order it as the sample didn't really =
fit my needs.  I don' t mind spending the money but only if it is good =
software that is easy to use, that you can do your window designs =
without being a computer engineer or CAD expert, and someone here feels =
it is a good tool.
Thanks for your input.
Eljay

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE163D.A1DD3EC0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Greetings Folks,</FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>A while back I downloaded the sample =
copy of the=20
software, basically all I saw was some patterns, it lost my interest =
very=20
quickly.&nbsp; Just in the last couple of days I was looking around and =
found=20
out that what they give you to down load to try is a sample of the =
software,=20
less design capabilities.&nbsp; I thought it sucked becuase there was no =
way to=20
see what they were really offering, so I just deleted it.&nbsp; Now that =
I know=20
they only give you a sample of their patterns and that you have to order =
the=20
real thing.&nbsp; I would like some feedback.&nbsp; Anyone using it and =
feel it=20
was well worth the money.&nbsp; I didn't order it as the sample didn't =
really=20
fit my needs.&nbsp; </FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I don' t mind =
spending the=20
money but only if it is good software that is easy to use, that you can =
do your=20
window designs without being a computer engineer or CAD expert, and =
someone here=20
feels it is a good tool.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Thanks for your input.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Eljay</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE163D.A1DD3EC0--

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From owner-glass Sun Nov 22 16:48:01 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: Department store prices
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:10:06 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov22.7106.0>
References: <<1998Nov22.204711.0>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

What is a paver?


JJKIRBY@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 11/21/98 10:39:04 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> gunnx4@ix.netcom.com writes:
> 
> << **US companies contracting
>  for cheap labor.  Makes me ill.  Fat cat executives...paying next to
>  nothing for labor.  Little girls making toys for other children that
>  they will never be able to own.  And we can buy them for less than an
>  hours wage.  We are very fortunate. >>
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I have my issues with executives - U.S. executives
> are generally low performing and high paid.  And child labor is wrong,
> wrong.
> 
> However it more than large corporations that take advantage of low
> labor rates elsewhere... its the entrepreneur who drives his truck over
> the border and buys a truckload of pavers for $10 each and sells them
> for $20, and the small retailer as well who buys for $20 and sells for $30.
> 
> In a global economy, unskilled work will always migrate to the cheapest
> labor pools.
> 
> As many have stated,  as skilled American craftspeople and artists, we
> need to focus on the quality of our designs and uniqueness of our work.
> This is continual process, because the good stuff will continued to be
> copied and quickly degenerate.
> 
> Pavers are an excellent example.  5 to 7 years ago, nobody was doing them,
> now they're showing up in my local drugstore.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
xŸ>"3
�
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X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>, glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: How do you place the letters on a compass?
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 16:37:39 PST
Message-ID: <m0zhk0b-000147C@daver.bungi.com>
Precedence: bulk

[In the message entitled "How do you place the letters on a compass?" on Nov 22, 13:56, Shirley Balloch writes:]
> I make a stepping stone compass.  And I am getting grief on how I place
> the letters.  My army surplus compass has them so you can read them all
> from one direction.
> If you place a stone as a compass in the ground, are the letter suppose
> to face in the direction that they denote, or opposite that direction.

I made one and put the letters so that when you turn the compass
they read correctly....or in other words put yourself in the center
I hope I'm making sense.
I'll try get one up on my website soon.



-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 22 17:34:08 1998
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X-Path: yahoo.com!the_eljay
From: Linda Jo Letscher <the_eljay@yahoo.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: The Glass Eye - Is It Worth It??
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 16:47:55 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1998Nov22.84755.0>
Precedence: bulk

I guess I did my post wrong, sorry.......  I am new at this e-mail,
group type thing...  

Greetings Folks, 
A while back I downloaded the sample copy of the software, basically
all I saw was some patterns, it lost my interest very quickly.  Just
in the last couple of days I was looking around and found out that
what they give you to down load to try is a sample of the software,
less design capabilities.  I thought it sucked becuase there was no
way to see what they were really offering, so I just deleted it.  Now
that I know they only give you a sample of their patterns and that you
have to order the real thing.  I would like some feedback.  Anyone
using it and feel it was well worth the money.  I didn't order it as
the sample didn't really fit my needs.  I don' t mind spending the
money but only if it is good software that is easy to use, that you
can do your window designs without being a computer engineer or CAD
expert, and someone here feels it is a good tool.
Thanks for your input.
Eljay




---Linda Letscher <andor@fair.net> wrote:


==
Linda Jo Letscher
E-mail: the_eljay@yahoo.com
UIN 5072431


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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From owner-glass Sun Nov 22 17:48:21 1998
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From: PDRUSS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: How do you place the letters on a compass?
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 20:19:21 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov23.11921.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 98-11-22 17:59:27 EST, balloch@netbridge.net writes:

<< 
 I make a stepping stone compass.  And I am getting grief on how I place
 the letters.  My army surplus compass has them so you can read them all
 from one direction.
 If you place a stone as a compass in the ground, are the letter suppose
 to face in the direction that they denote, or opposite that direction.
 Anyone know?
 Thanks in advance.
 Shirley B
 ---- >>



I have aways seen them with the letters all facing the same direction. 

The person reading it is at the southern point and all the letters are facing
so that you can read it like a clock. 


Dianne 
Jacksonville, FL
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 22 18:46:36 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: compass
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 18:30:30 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov22.103030.0>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

Thanks all.
It makes sense to me that you would want to face north and therefore
would want to be able to read it from that view point.  This was my
original concept.
The other way makes sense too.  But I think I will do it that way unless
I find an emily manners telling me otherwise.
Thanks again.
Shirley B
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 22 19:16:17 1998
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From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>, glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: How do you place the letters on a compass?
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 18:49:42 PST
Message-ID: <m0zhm4M-0000nCC@daver.bungi.com>
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[In the message entitled "Re: How do you place the letters on a compass?" on Nov 22, 16:37, Glenna Rand writes:]

> > If you place a stone as a compass in the ground, are the letter suppose
> > to face in the direction that they denote, or opposite that direction.
> 

I got it up on my site at:

http://www.bungi.com/glass/glenna/index.html


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 22 21:15:34 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Lotus pattern
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 22:41:52 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov22.164152.0>
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Paula Smith-Lane et al

In the Delphi Stained Glass catalog 1996/1997 there is a pattern called
Lotus w/Butterflies. It has 2 lotus and 2 butterflies which I sure you could
modify.

1-800-248-2048

#8044
20" X 18"
2 copies
$8.95

You might contact Jenna at Meredith Stained Glass. It looks like a standard
pattern not just a Delphi.

Good Luck

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sun Nov 22 23:43:31 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: disgusted and depressed
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 00:54:07 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov22.18547.0>
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Man.  What in the world made me think I could do anything that someone
would want to buy?  Today was a total disaster.  What a total waste of
time.   Today made up for having a good day yesterday.

Oh, I was sitting there foiling away, started putting peices
together...and wonder what kind of drugs I was on when I cut it out!
Needs it's name changed to "A study of lead".  No reason to go any
further foiling it.  Who knows which I cut worse, the pattern or the
glass.  

Tomorrow is another day.  good thing.

Tulsa Suzanne, completely depressed and discouraged
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
----
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 02:45:36 1998
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X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Glass Eye review
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 05:29:11 +0000
Message-ID: <199811231020.FAA16916@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
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There's a review of "The Glass Eye" software by pj and Paul Friend at
http://www.igga.org/cgg11e.htm

Albert
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 04:16:44 1998
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X-Path: tm.net.my!drpishu
From: "Dr Pishu R Thadhani" <drpishu@tm.net.my>
To: "Suzanne" <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: more show info
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:00:49 +0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov24.4049.0>
Precedence: bulk

The beauty of glass is that a badly done job looks good, and a well done,
excellent.

My opinion would be for you to go, even if you do not have many pieces a few
would be good enough. Your portofolio would be a great help, and you would
get to distribute your business cards.
My 2 cents.

shakeel@tm.net.my
Shakeel Abedi
Rainbow Stained Glass
104, Jalan Mersing
86000 Kluang
Malaysia
Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313
-----Original Message-----
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Ensembles@compuserve.com <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
Date: Saturday, November 21, 1998 3:53 AM
Subject: more show info


>The contact gal returned my call...
>
>Said the show is invitation only and from what she had heard about my
>work she thinks it would do really well, and be really popular and they
>dont have anything else like it.  They dont have any glass at all!!
> I AM INVITED!!!!!  YIKES!!!!  I told her I would call her back.
>
>She said it is advertised on all the local tv stations, radio stations
>and is a 16 yr old show.  The people go on a tour of homes, have a nice
>lunch, then do their Christmas shopping.  This is probably the best show
>in Tulsa I could do.  These are not people that are worried about how
>much they spend!
>
>Suzanne
>--
>~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 04:50:02 1998
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X-Path: city-net.com!dany
From: "Daniela Birkelbach" <dany@city-net.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Glass Eye review
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 07:31:04 -0500
Message-ID: <199811231218.HAA05040@dns.city-net.com>
Precedence: bulk

I personally love the software.  It is great for when you have a drawing,
photograph, scanned in picture which you can pull in as a background.  Then
you can put your lead or foil lines on top of the picture, and design your
own stuff.  You can color the different pieces and see which combination
would look good.  A really good part of the software is to be able to print
out the pattern in actual size (prints out different pages). 

Now, computers are no stranger to me, but I found it intuitive to use
without ever looking at the manual.

Just my personal opinion!

Dany

Daniela Birkelbach
Software Consultant
dany@city-net.com             http://www.city-net.com/~dany
**********************************************************************
"Black holes are where God divided by zero!"
Steven Wright

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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 05:22:16 1998
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X-Path: epix.net!"pmsl@epix.net"
From: Paula Smith-Lane <"pmsl@epix.net"@epix.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------2B4BABAA2C161A856968E89C"
Subject: Re: Lotus pattern
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 07:31:51 -0500
Message-ID: <199811231235.HAA12432@lima.epix.net>
References: <<1998Nov22.164152.0>>
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--------------2B4BABAA2C161A856968E89C
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Pat,
 Thanks for the input on the lotus pattern. I became really frustrated trying to
fine "just what I envisioned", so I made my own lotus design with The Glass Eye.
The pattern is completed and ready for action. Now I have to make the 2 hour one
way trek to the stained glass supplier. As a newbee in stained glass, I hope my
pattern will work. I have read and heard a lot about glass integrity and I tried
to keep that in mine when I made the design.
Thanks again.
Paula


Pat Kelly wrote:

> Paula Smith-Lane et al
>
> In the Delphi Stained Glass catalog 1996/1997 there is a pattern called
> Lotus w/Butterflies. It has 2 lotus and 2 butterflies which I sure you could
> modify.
>
> 1-800-248-2048
>
> #8044
> 20" X 18"
> 2 copies
> $8.95
>
> You might contact Jenna at Meredith Stained Glass. It looks like a standard
> pattern not just a Delphi.
>
> Good Luck
>
> Patrick
> Roses and Rainbows
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



--------------2B4BABAA2C161A856968E89C
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
Hi Pat,
<BR>&nbsp;Thanks for the input on the lotus pattern. I became really frustrated
trying to fine "just what I envisioned", so I made my own lotus design
with <U>The Glass Eye</U>. The pattern is completed and ready for action.
Now I have to make the 2 hour one way trek to the stained glass supplier.
As a newbee in stained glass, I hope my pattern will work. I have read
and heard a lot about glass integrity and I tried to keep that in mine
when I made the design.
<BR>Thanks again.
<BR>Paula
<BR>&nbsp;

<P>Pat Kelly wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Paula Smith-Lane et al

<P>In the Delphi Stained Glass catalog 1996/1997 there is a pattern called
<BR>Lotus w/Butterflies. It has 2 lotus and 2 butterflies which I sure
you could
<BR>modify.

<P>1-800-248-2048

<P>#8044
<BR>20" X 18"
<BR>2 copies
<BR>$8.95

<P>You might contact Jenna at Meredith Stained Glass. It looks like a standard
<BR>pattern not just a Delphi.

<P>Good Luck

<P>Patrick
<BR>Roses and Rainbows

<P>----
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<BR>To send to the list,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; please mail to:
glass@bungi.com
<BR>Archives available at <A HREF="http://www.bungi.com/glass">http://www.bungi.com/glass</A></BLOCKQUOTE>
&nbsp;</HTML>

--------------2B4BABAA2C161A856968E89C--

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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 05:46:20 1998
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From: Paula Smith-Lane <"pmsl@epix.net"@epix.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------00C3F721CD4EDCDB4A110C77"
Subject: Re: disgusted and depressed
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 07:45:04 -0500
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References: <<1998Nov22.18547.0>>
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--------------00C3F721CD4EDCDB4A110C77
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Suzanne,
 Don't despair. Sometimes from our disasters we learn. I recently got a
pattern of a single rose from the internet. It was a web site to sell a
pattern design program. (Not Glass Eye). I cut the glass and when foiling,
realized that there was no way it was going to go together. I decided not
to give up on it, so I salvaged most of the pieces and made new pattern
pieces on the fly to fill in. It really came out good. And I learned a lot
regarding what shapes glass "won't" do!
 Keep your chin up, tomorrow is another day.
Paula

Suzanne wrote:

> Man.  What in the world made me think I could do anything that someone
> would want to buy?  Today was a total disaster.  What a total waste of
> time.   Today made up for having a good day yesterday.
>
> Oh, I was sitting there foiling away, started putting peices
> together...and wonder what kind of drugs I was on when I cut it out!
> Needs it's name changed to "A study of lead".  No reason to go any
> further foiling it.  Who knows which I cut worse, the pattern or the
> glass.
>
> Tomorrow is another day.  good thing.
>
> Tulsa Suzanne, completely depressed and discouraged
> --
> ~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



--------------00C3F721CD4EDCDB4A110C77
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
Hi Suzanne,
<BR>&nbsp;Don't despair. Sometimes from our disasters we learn. I recently
got a pattern of a single rose from the internet. It was a web site to
sell a pattern design program. (Not Glass Eye). I cut the glass and when
foiling, realized that there was no way it was going to go together. I
decided not to give up on it, so I salvaged most of the pieces and made
new pattern pieces on the fly to fill in. It really came out good. And
I learned a lot regarding what shapes glass "won't" do!
<BR>&nbsp;Keep your chin up, tomorrow <B>is</B> another day.
<BR>Paula

<P>Suzanne wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Man.&nbsp; What in the world made me think I could
do anything that someone
<BR>would want to buy?&nbsp; Today was a total disaster.&nbsp; What a total
waste of
<BR>time.&nbsp;&nbsp; Today made up for having a good day yesterday.

<P>Oh, I was sitting there foiling away, started putting peices
<BR>together...and wonder what kind of drugs I was on when I cut it out!
<BR>Needs it's name changed to "A study of lead".&nbsp; No reason to go
any
<BR>further foiling it.&nbsp; Who knows which I cut worse, the pattern
or the
<BR>glass.

<P>Tomorrow is another day.&nbsp; good thing.

<P>Tulsa Suzanne, completely depressed and discouraged
<BR>--
<BR>~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
<BR>----
<BR>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
<BR>To send to the list,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; please mail to:
glass@bungi.com
<BR>Archives available at <A HREF="http://www.bungi.com/glass">http://www.bungi.com/glass</A></BLOCKQUOTE>
&nbsp;</HTML>

--------------00C3F721CD4EDCDB4A110C77--

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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 06:19:56 1998
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From: Paula Smith-Lane <"pmsl@epix.net"@epix.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Copyright question
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 08:29:57 -0500
Message-ID: <199811231333.IAA17698@lima.epix.net>
Organization: Prefered Customer
Precedence: bulk

Hi all,
 I have a severely handicapped great nephew who loves Disney characters.
I would like to make some small window panels for his bedroom of Mickey
Mouse, Donald Duck, ect. His bedroom is done in the Disney motif. If I
scan Disney characters into the Glass Eye as background and make
patterns, am I infringing on the Disney copyright? I don't want to make
them to sell, just for him.
Paula

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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 06:42:57 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: GreerStudios@compuserve.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: JKSinrod's web site
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:00:45 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov23.14045.0>
Precedence: bulk


> Hi Sparks-
> 
> Great sales pitch for Kim, but how
> about the URL for us dodos who
> killed their computers in the past
> week!  TIA! ;-)
> 
> Best,
> 
> Dani

He had his URL imbedded in one of his messages, and I got there just by
clicking on it, but since that doesn't work for some people, here's the
address:

http://members.aol.com/JKSinrod/sinrod.html

Enjoy!


Sparks
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 06:53:10 1998
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From: "Vic" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Bulk came or pieces
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:31:29 -0500
Message-ID: <19981123142737.DNFF10820@vic>
Precedence: bulk

I am about to make a "pilgrimage" (perfect time of the year for it) to buy
glass and tools for the winter.

I would like to know the pro/cons of came in bulk coils and pre-cut
lengths. I intend to purchase a stretcher and came bender regardless of the
type I buy.  TIA

Ciao

Vic LaGreca, SIOR, CCIM


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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 07:32:27 1998
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From: Donna Harms <dharms@lakefield.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com"@tigris.netnet.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: BIO AND QUESTION-ELEPHANT PATTERN
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:01:48 -0600 (CST)
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Precedence: bulk

Hello Everyone, I have been listening for over a year to this list and have
enjoyed it
and the sites recommended.  Now, finally is time for an introduction.  I
have been doing stained glass for about 25 years.  Starting as a hobbist in
Florida, and then a business for 2-3 years in Wisconsin; I now continue only
for fun.  I have a studio area in my home which is always set up (19 years)
and which I can access anytime I am inspired.
I seem to be the type of personality that works feverishly for months at a
time and then burn out and don't touch glass for a year or so.  Crazy, but
that's the way I work. I have gone thru phases of window panels, boxes,
jewelry, stepping stones (2yrs ago) and now for the first time making lamps.
I am very attracted to the straight lines of panel lamps in the Frank Lloyd
Wright style.  For Christmas presents this year, I have made over 12 lamps
and my husband is making the bases out of cherry from a freind's woods.
I also work with a rehabilitaion group called Wildlife of Wisconsin which
cares for injured, abandoned or diseased wildlife.  Thus, the nature
influence. I love working with colors and the blues, greens and all natural
colors dominate my work. I completed a lamp on a drift wood base that is 4
sided (large) with swirls of leaves, blues for sky and water and have
incorporated a sunface molded piece on one side a bug molded on another and
a turtle mold into a pond area on another side.  I had such a good time,
that I am again in the fever mode and have another lamp started that I need
advise.
I am making a mosaic 4 panel that I would like to hide an elephant in!  Yes,
an elephant.....I'm sure many of you have seen windows that have hidden
designs .  If you look at them long enough, you may see a tiger or something
else imerge.  Las Vegas is a good place to look for this type of design.  I
was wondering if anyone has suggestions of where to look for information on
this type of design or any suggstions on how to do this.  I am also looking
for some elephant patterns that might work in a lamp.  Thank you in advance
for any assistance and now I will go back to listening. 
Donna Harms.

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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 08:29:34 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Paula Smith-Lane <"pmsl@epix.net"@epix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Copyright question
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:15:56 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov23.51556.0>
References: <<199811231333.IAA17698@lima.epix.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Paula Smith-Lane wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
>  I have a severely handicapped great nephew who loves Disney characters.
> I would like to make some small window panels for his bedroom of Mickey
> Mouse, Donald Duck, ect. His bedroom is done in the Disney motif. If I
> scan Disney characters into the Glass Eye as background and make
> patterns, am I infringing on the Disney copyright? I don't want to make
> them to sell, just for him.
> Paula
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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if it's just for him, i think it's safe. the disney lawyers should see
them there unless your related to one. the volkner (SP?) series has a
disney book, i don't know what permission they got, but it's still on
shelves so it must be ok.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 09:00:28 1998
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X-Path: early.com!hugsal
From: Ann Hughes <hugsal@Early.COM>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: stained glass exchange request
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:43:22 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981123104322.007b93e0@early.com>
Precedence: bulk

Hello everyone!!

I hope you don't mind me writing to you but I have been anxiously thinking
of what I think would be a wonderful idea.  I was hoping you might also.  I
hope I am not a bother.  

First of all I would like to tell you a few things about myself.  My name
is Ann Hughes.  I live in Easton, Pennsylvania.  I am married and have
three girls that keep me quite busy.  I am an avid stain (glasser???)  Not
sure if that is what I am or not but I love working with glass.  

My idea is this.  I used to make quilts and loved it but got tired of
working with that medium so I decided to learn how to do glass so that I
could work with something other than material.  It has been a great
experience and I love it very much.  What I would like to try to do is to
start up an exchange group with glass.  I would send you a piece of my
favorite glass, say a 5x5 piece.  When you received it you would also do
the same.  My goal is to make one quilt piece made up of glass from
everywhere I can get it.  In turn you will receive a piece of glass from me
to use in something for yourself.  I have noticed when I do get to travel
that many glass shops carry some glass than I can't get in my shops here at
home.  I imagine it is true with worldwide.  

We are in the process of building on t our home.  We are having a sunroom
built.  With the windows in there I want to make a friendship quilt piece
in glass to put in that room in the one window (yes they are big windows).
I hope you can see what a pleasure it would be to have glass from all over
the world to use in this piece.  Years ago women who quilted would get
together and share a piece of their fabric so that a lady could make a
quilt with her friends fabric.  This way she could always have her friends
with her through the quilt.  

Well that is my idea and I hope you like it.  I know this is a strange
request from someone you don't know which is why I would like to send you a
piece first so that you know I am serious about this.  I already have a
friend in Israel who is going to send me a piece.  I also have some family
in Northern Ireland who are going to do the same.  

I will look forward to hearing from you either way.  What a wonderful way
this would be to become friends with people all over the world.

Respectfully,

Ann Hughes

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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 09:13:37 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Donna Harms <dharms@lakefield.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: BIO AND QUESTION-ELEPHANT PATTERN
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:02:45 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov23.6245.0>
References: <<199811231501.JAA12701@tigris.netnet.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Donna Harms wrote:
> 
> Hello Everyone, I have been listening for over a year to this list and have
> enjoyed it
> and the sites recommended.  Now, finally is time for an introduction.  I
> have been doing stained glass for about 25 years.  Starting as a hobbist in
> Florida, and then a business for 2-3 years in Wisconsin; I now continue only
> for fun.  I have a studio area in my home which is always set up (19 years)
> and which I can access anytime I am inspired.
> I seem to be the type of personality that works feverishly for months at a
> time and then burn out and don't touch glass for a year or so.  Crazy, but
> that's the way I work. I have gone thru phases of window panels, boxes,
> jewelry, stepping stones (2yrs ago) and now for the first time making lamps.
> I am very attracted to the straight lines of panel lamps in the Frank Lloyd
> Wright style.  For Christmas presents this year, I have made over 12 lamps
> and my husband is making the bases out of cherry from a freind's woods.
> I also work with a rehabilitaion group called Wildlife of Wisconsin which
> cares for injured, abandoned or diseased wildlife.  Thus, the nature
> influence. I love working with colors and the blues, greens and all natural
> colors dominate my work. I completed a lamp on a drift wood base that is 4
> sided (large) with swirls of leaves, blues for sky and water and have
> incorporated a sunface molded piece on one side a bug molded on another and
> a turtle mold into a pond area on another side.  I had such a good time,
> that I am again in the fever mode and have another lamp started that I need
> advise.
> I am making a mosaic 4 panel that I would like to hide an elephant in!  Yes,
> an elephant.....I'm sure many of you have seen windows that have hidden
> designs .  If you look at them long enough, you may see a tiger or something
> else imerge.  Las Vegas is a good place to look for this type of design.  I
> was wondering if anyone has suggestions of where to look for information on
> this type of design or any suggstions on how to do this.  I am also looking
> for some elephant patterns that might work in a lamp.  Thank you in advance
> for any assistance and now I will go back to listening.
> Donna Harms.
> 
> ----
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i guess the best way is to draw in the elphant first, then apply the
background and foreground. this way you'll the outline to work with.
like a branch of a tre would form over the elephants back. or a swooping
leaf would be the shape of it's trunk. or a stump could be a part of
it's foot....

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
----
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 09:36:19 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Copyright question
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:01:57, -0500
Message-ID: <199811231601.LAA12114@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>Hi all,
 I have a severely handicapped great nephew who loves Disney 
characters.
I would like to make some small window panels for his bedroom of 
Mickey
Mouse, Donald Duck, ect. His bedroom is done in the Disney motif. If 
I
scan Disney characters into the Glass Eye as background and make
patterns, am I infringing on the Disney copyright? I don't want to 
make
them to sell, just for him.
Paula<<

I say yes you would be in violation of the copyright laws. The 
nobleness of your cause is not provided for in the copyrite law. The 
product that you turn out will bring to mind Mickey which is the 
product that is protected. On the other hand, it could be argued, 
Disney does not make stained glass products that are suitable for 
your purpose and so you are not in competition with them.

It is about time that someone wrote to the current Walt Disney 
interests and requested their permission for the free use of their 
copyright for non commercial use. Perhaps, with adequate restrictions,
 it would be granted. If you do this, please let all of us know the 
answer.

Bob

Ps: I have a friend that was turned down by the phone company for the 
placement of $7,000.00 worth of yellow page advertising. The reason 
given was that the cartoon characters used were to close to the 
Disney copyright.
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 10:35:26 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, glass@intrastar.net, vlg@worldnet.att.net
Subject: Bulk came or pieces
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:11:49, -0500
Message-ID: <199811231711.MAA11242@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>I would like to know the pro/cons of came in bulk coils and pre-
cut
lengths. I intend to purchase a stretcher and came bender regardless 
of the
type I buy.  TIA

Ciao<<

I have tried the coils of came and found them not to my liking. 
Perhaps if I had mounted then differently they would have rolled 
freely and dispenced the came more readily. Also the came was exposed 
to dust and moisture to a greater extent than that in a standard six 
foot box.

I buy all my lead came in 45 or 50 pound boxes that I store flat (not 
standing on end) to avoid the came collapsing on itself. It is all 
six feet long, straight as an arrow and shiney bright.

Your came seller will likely give you one of the manufactures sturdy 
cardboard came boxes to transport and store your came purchase. If 
you buy 50 pounds of assorted came you may get a small discount. Ask 
for and get a 20% discount over the single strip price if you buy a 
50 pound box of one size came. Cascade Came comes in 45 pound boxes, 
is a premium came and generally sells for the 50 pound price of other 
cames.

Having a full box of came is power waiting to happen. Three average 
sized windows will put a real hurt on a box of came. I just counted 
and have 23 boxes of lead came that if they average 35 pounds 
remaining will total 805 pounds. Some boxes are duplicates and 
perhaps six of the boxes contain came that is in shapes and sizes 
that are little used.

Bob
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 12:04:07 1998
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X-Path: yahoo.com!the_eljay
From: Linda Jo Letscher <the_eljay@yahoo.com>
To: BOB DUCHESNEAU <YWAH36A@prodigy.com>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Copyright question
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:41:23 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1998Nov23.24123.0>
Precedence: bulk

Paula,

I can't recall where but I have seen Disney characters in a pattern
book.  You might check around with various suppliers.  I guess if you
copy something for your nephew you are just taking a chance that
Michael Eisner (CEO of Disney Corp.)won't be over to dinner any time
soon and notice.  Dinsey like McDonald's is touchey and they seem they
are willing to go to litigation on even small infringements.  I don't
know where you would start but I would contact the company and see if
they will give you limited permission.  Another way is to contact an
attorney that practices copywrite law and get the definitive answer.

Good luck.
Eljay




-

==
Linda Jo Letscher
E-mail: the_eljay@yahoo.com
UIN 5072431


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 12:34:33 1998
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X-Path: eai.com!mrskulak
From: Julie Kulak <mrskulak@eai.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Copyright question
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:46:53 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <199811231846.MAA04299@goliath.eai.com>
Precedence: bulk

disney evidently has allowed at least one stained glass pattern producer to
sell disney character patterns.  i saw a folder of disney suncatchers
(including mickey, minnie, pluto, donald, and many others) at my local
stained glass store.  i can't remember the name of the company (for some
reason i'm thinking it was a german company), but if anyone's interested
i'll check the next time i'm in there.

as i understand copyright law, as long as you have no intention of selling
your creation (i.e., you're giving it as a gift), you can use the character
without worry.  if you're mass-producing, either use a pattern that you've
created or purchase one from a store (that way the company that produces the
patterns takes the blame if anyone accuses you of patent infringement).  

julie

-- 
julie kulak
scientific illustrator, guinea pig owner
engineering animation, inc., chicago
312.425.8153 desk
312.425.8101 fax
mrskulak@eai.com
www.eai.com

Always do what you are afraid to do. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 12:35:33 1998
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X-Path: email.msn.com!crzylynna
From: "Lynn Alchin" <crzylynna@email.msn.com>
To: "Fellow Artists/Craftsmen" <Glass@bungi.com>
Subject: What is going on with this pattern?
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:53:47 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Nov23.45347.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi guys!
Besides stressing over Thanksgiving, I have come to the conclusion that
there are moments that I have been taken over by someone else's brain.
Here is the situation;
Somewhere in my mind I had decided that when I am doing a pattern- for a
leaded window, or any other window- that I need to subtract 1/8th of an
inch from around the edge for "slop". That makes a 1/4" total subtracted
from all the way around. Right? Okay, when I am starting the design, I
take the 1/2" zinc that I will be using for the edges, draw the edge
line, and begin the design. Are you with me so far?? Now, after cutting
and grinding, I start to lead-up the window-with my zinc to the left and
bottom edges of my jig.  Much to my dismay- when I got to the right edge
& nailed a piece of lead to hold that piece, it appears that I am 1/8"
to 1/4" off (or above) the actual edge of my design. Now, the question
is, do I continue- hoping that when I nail in the zinc for that edge,
even though it appears that I am off measurements- the zinc will fit,
and therefore so will the window, or what? I disassembled the first few
pieces I leaded last night, thinking that somehow my glass pieces
weren't cut right, however, being the (apparently sometimes)
perfectionist that I am- of course, the pieces fit as they should. WHERE
DID I GO WRONG ???? Should I give up doing this window in lead and start
foiling?

Please help!

Lynn in AZ.



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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 12:54:04 1998
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From: Bob the Dinosaur <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: JKSinrod's web site
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:53:48 -0500
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References: <<1998Nov23.14045.0>>
Organization: Cox's Mower Service
Precedence: bulk

Funny -this guy is about 20 minutes from me and I never heard of this
studio, (not that I know everyone in the biz).  
-- 
Adults are obsolete children
		Theodore Geisel
----
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 13:05:28 1998
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>, "Ann Hughes" <hugsal@Early.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: stained glass exchange request
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:03:15 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov23.9315.0>
Precedence: bulk

Anne...Why not take this one step further....It might add to the quilt if
everyone that swaps glass with you engraved their name and where they're
from on the glass.  Then the quilt will tell the story.

Everyone that swaps with you will only get one piece back...Not enough to
make a quilt...Why not set up a chain letter style thing with 5 names.
Then at the end, if everyone comes through, you'd get 15625 pcs....WOW !!!!

Arnold Schneider    Creekside Creations    Richfield, PA

-----Original Message-----
From: Ann Hughes <hugsal@Early.COM>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 12:32 PM
Subject: stained glass exchange request


>Hello everyone!!
>
>I hope you don't mind me writing to you but I have been anxiously thinking
>of what I think would be a wonderful idea.  I was hoping you might also.  I
>hope I am not a bother.
>
>First of all I would like to tell you a few things about myself.  My name
>is Ann Hughes.  I live in Easton, Pennsylvania.  I am married and have
>three girls that keep me quite busy.  I am an avid stain (glasser???)  Not
>sure if that is what I am or not but I love working with glass.
>
>My idea is this.  I used to make quilts and loved it but got tired of
>working with that medium so I decided to learn how to do glass so that I
>could work with something other than material.  It has been a great
>experience and I love it very much.  What I would like to try to do is to
>start up an exchange group with glass.  I would send you a piece of my
>favorite glass, say a 5x5 piece.  When you received it you would also do
>the same.  My goal is to make one quilt piece made up of glass from
>everywhere I can get it.  In turn you will receive a piece of glass from me
>to use in something for yourself.  I have noticed when I do get to travel
>that many glass shops carry some glass than I can't get in my shops here at
>home.  I imagine it is true with worldwide.
>
>We are in the process of building on t our home.  We are having a sunroom
>built.  With the windows in there I want to make a friendship quilt piece
>in glass to put in that room in the one window (yes they are big windows).
>I hope you can see what a pleasure it would be to have glass from all over
>the world to use in this piece.  Years ago women who quilted would get
>together and share a piece of their fabric so that a lady could make a
>quilt with her friends fabric.  This way she could always have her friends
>with her through the quilt.
>
>Well that is my idea and I hope you like it.  I know this is a strange
>request from someone you don't know which is why I would like to send you a
>piece first so that you know I am serious about this.  I already have a
>friend in Israel who is going to send me a piece.  I also have some family
>in Northern Ireland who are going to do the same.
>
>I will look forward to hearing from you either way.  What a wonderful way
>this would be to become friends with people all over the world.
>
>Respectfully,
>
>Ann Hughes
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

----
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 13:42:37 1998
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X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep
From: "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Disney Patterns
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:50:09 -0000
Message-ID: <1998Nov23.20509.0>
Precedence: bulk

Paula

ISBN3-928004-12-3

Volkman (Glas Design)      See Mike's message!

All the Disney characters you could ask for! (40)

The folder carries a Disney copyright so all is in order!


Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: Linda Jo Letscher <the_eljay@yahoo.com>
To: BOB DUCHESNEAU <YWAH36A@prodigy.com>; glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: 23 November 1998 20:12
Subject: Re: Copyright question


>Paula,
>
>I can't recall where but I have seen Disney characters in a pattern
>book.  You might check around with various suppliers.  I guess if you
>copy something for your nephew you are just taking a chance that
>Michael Eisner (CEO of Disney Corp.)won't be over to dinner any time
>soon and notice.  Dinsey like McDonald's is touchey and they seem they
>are willing to go to litigation on even small infringements.  I don't
>know where you would start but I would contact the company and see if
>they will give you limited permission.  Another way is to contact an
>attorney that practices copywrite law and get the definitive answer.
>
>Good luck.
>Eljay
>
>
>
>
>-
>
>==
>Linda Jo Letscher
>E-mail: the_eljay@yahoo.com
>UIN 5072431
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>DO YOU YAHOO!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

----
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 14:41:36 1998
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Craft Fairs
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:50:11 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov23.115011.0>
References: <<1998Nov17.172236.0>>
Precedence: bulk



J B wrote:

>   I also don't like to put out duplicates of the same
> design.... you can always say... gee, I MAY have that in blue... would
> you like me to check???
>
> Hey, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.... glue it to a stick (just
> kidding!)
>
> Joan
>

On the other hand, I like to put out several duplicates of smaller items,
like my $20 angels and small butterflies.  With those, if people don't see
the color they want, they may just walk away...but if the right blue
catches their eye..

If the craft fairs don't kill me, the special orders will!  Whew, I've been
running like crazy since October!

Dorothy

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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 15:10:59 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: What is going on with this pattern?
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:51:55 -0000
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>Hi guys!
>Besides stressing over Thanksgiving, I have come to the conclusion that
>there are moments that I have been taken over by someone else's brain.
>Here is the situation;
>Somewhere in my mind I had decided that when I am doing a pattern- for a
>leaded window, or any other window- that I need to subtract 1/8th of an
>inch from around the edge for "slop". That makes a 1/4" total subtracted
>from all the way around. Right?

Right. You need the 1/8" all around to fit inside the zinc came. But then 
you have to add in the remaining fraction of an inch - depending on the 
width of came you're using.

So - if you're using 1/2" zinc, 1/8 from that is 3/8 inch. This is the 
part that will stick out from the edge of your glass on all sides. You 
must allow for that 3/8-inch all around, so it all fits inside the window.

Happy Thanksgiving, and don't give over your brain! You'll need it when 
you're 80 or 90.

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 15:13:03 1998
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Subject: Stones, wasRe: Craft Fairs
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:03:21 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov23.12321.0>
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Sandra I Gustafson wrote:

> >Not one stepping stone did I sell.  People kept saying that they were
> >toooooo  pretty to step on and I couldn't get accross to them that they
> were
> >really durable and weather resistance.  I even told then how I put them
> >together with a center support of wire.
> >
>

Interestingly enough, a lot of the special orders I do are for stepping stones
(which I call Garden Stones) and I tell people they are accent pieces for
gardens and lawns, they will not be damaged by being stepped on, but they are
slippery and will get scratched over time.  In other words, I am NOT selling
"stepping" stones!  I have a special flier made up (Printed on my own little
printer at home) that gives information on my Garden Stones and has a portion to
fill out and return to me if anyone is interested.  If people just take your
card, they won't remember why they took it a week from now.  I don't have the
flier out, I just give it to people who seem interested in the stones and ask
for a card.  I also bring along copies of the patterns I have done, whether or
not I have a matching stone.  These are nicely printed and in a notebook and
allow me to show people what I have done and what I can do.  I am presently
making a stone that is designed from a picture of a woman's dog.

(And I didn't sell a single stone this weekend, either, but I have lots of stuff
in my booth.  Sold angels and snowflakes, and flowers and those filigreed
trees!)

Dorothy K

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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 15:47:01 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Disney pattern books
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:48:07 -0600
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Here ya go... I knew I had seen these online...
Warner-Criv has several to choose from (5 or more).

http://www.warner-criv.com/search/dept_search.asp?mscssid=&qu=3401&ct=wc_dept&x=11&y=7

Have fun shoppin' ;o)

Tulsa Suzanne

-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 16:14:22 1998
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Subject: Doing what you like
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:44:34 -0500
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Back in those 225 messages I downloaded today was the question (maybe to
Suzanne...maybe not) about when do you get to make what you like?

I make glass to sell, but except for special orders, I ALWAYS make what
I like.  Colors, shapes, textures...I have to like it.  If I like it,
then someone else will, and eventually, someone will buy it.  (My
husband once made a frog on a lily pad.  We carried it around for years,
until someone saw it, whipped out a measuring tape, measured it, and
decided that it was ***perfect***for the porthole window on his
stairwell.)

So even if I make the same butterfly over and over, I do it in
outrageous colors...colors that nature never intended, and they sell.

Dorothy K

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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 16:23:18 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Linda Jo Letscher <the_eljay@yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Copyright question
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:45:34 -0500
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And, everyone, don't forget you
can check the us government
copyright web site which will tell
you everything you ever wanted to
know and more plus has forms
that you can dowload - don't have
the url off-hand, but someone will
post it or it's in the archives I'm
certain.  That would be your best
bet before hiring an attorney;-) !

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 16:43:32 1998
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Subject: Re: Craft Fairs
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:57:22 -0000
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Dorothy (Emeraldine) wrote:
>If the craft fairs don't kill me, the special orders will!  Whew, I've been
>running like crazy since October!

Yup, me too, I'm actually delighted. This weekend was a slow start, then 
BOOM! A family came by and bought my angel panel for $150, (only taken as 
an afterthought), 3 candleholders, 2 picture frames and a partridge in a 
pear tree (just kidding) for another $115. They made my day. 

Dec. 5 & 6 I'm having the Home Show - hope I can make enough stuff 
between now & then to satisfy the thousands and thousands of buyers who 
will be trekking through my own home.

WoW!

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 17:58:16 1998
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Subject: Re: Doing what you like
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 19:29:09 -0000
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>Back in those 225 messages I downloaded today was the question (maybe to
>Suzanne...maybe not) about when do you get to make what you like?
Dorothy K wrote:
>I make glass to sell, but except for special orders, I ALWAYS make what
>I like.  Colors, shapes, textures...I have to like it.  If I like it,
>then someone else will, and eventually, someone will buy it.  (My
>husband once made a frog on a lily pad.  We carried it around for years,
>until someone saw it, whipped out a measuring tape, measured it, and
>decided that it was ***perfect***for the porthole window on his
>stairwell.)
>
>So even if I make the same butterfly over and over, I do it in
>outrageous colors...colors that nature never intended, and they sell.

Yes, Dorothy, I agree with you. Everything I make I like, at least in the 
beginning! Some things I grow to like better, some things I get bored 
with later. I've learned something else too: what I don't like, someone 
else will. And vice versa. And I never make the exact same thing twice, 
except for custom orders. Takes all the fun out of it.
Suzanne
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 19:30:10 1998
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Buying Cooperatives?
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:44:44 -0000
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Hi,

Does anybody know of any buying cooperatives in the N.Y./N.J./PA/Md area? 
Someone called tonight and asked...she is qualified to buy wholesale and 
just moved to the SE Pa area.

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 21:04:00 1998
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please unsubscibe me while I go on vacation.
Thanks and have a great and safe Turkey Day,
Leslye
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 23 22:32:42 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
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Subject: tips
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 23:35:19 -0600
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How frequently should you have to us the sal ammoniac block?  Seems to
me I am having to use it too much.  There is rust on the neck of my
tip..however I can get my tip tinned pretty well with the sal
ammoniac...

Also it is going from too hot, to too cool in a flash.  Not sure how
that is possible...but happening fast.  Think it is time for a new tip?

Guess what...So far the fan lamp that has come out the best?  *My own*
original design. (Suzanne does a little happy dance) Also, I made it
with the glass I had left from that lamp shade I told ya'll about.  It
is beautiful lit.  ;o)

Tulsa Suzanne (dont peg me for bipolar personality disorder yet, Ok?)
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 07:40:39 1998
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Work Area and 3-D Design
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:12:12 -0500
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Lessons and news:

The news is that I am no longer working on the surface of my sewing 
machine. I now have a 30" x 6' table to spread out on. Yeah...one flat 
smooth surface. I had to do something, flux had eaten the head of one of 
the screws on my sewing table.

The lesson is that designing is 3-d takes a little bit of thought.

I am making a model of the Hatteras Lighthouse for my brother for 
Christmas. I thought I was being really smart. I checked out all the 
pictures I could of the lighthouse and noted that there are always 4 black 
stripes showing from every angle. The Hatteras light housee is painted in 
bold black and white stripes, spiraling around the house. So I kickstarted 
Autocad R14 and began designing.

Eight panels to simulate round and diagonal whites and black pieces. I 
figured out that to get the whole house I needed 4 different panels with 2 
repeats of each. Yes, Howard, I designed it so that I could cut 4 black and 
4 white panels and interchange the pieces after they were cut. So far, 
pretty smart. Now comes the glitch. I made sure that each of the 4 panels 
had 4 black stripes. But when I printed the thing out, (thank goodness for 
autocad) and rolled it up and looked at it from the side, I could see a 5th 
black stripe. This meant that each panel had too many pieces (8 per panel). 
By kicking up autocad and redesigning the panels so they have 7 pieces 
each, when the panels are put together, only 4 black stripes show from 
every angle. Seems pretty easy but I wouldn't have known it unless I made a 
paper model first. I want this to be perfect. I guess I'm kinda designing 
like Mike Savad, the rest will come later. Got to get the tower made first. 
I saw some cheap foriegn made ones at the Navy Enchange. They were $50-75 
and they looked it. Blobs of solder, crooked angles. Oh well, at least the 
stripes were running the right way. I'll try to post a photo of it when 
it's finished....Christmas Eve?


Linda Cambpell
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 08:18:05 1998
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From: Bob the Dinosaur <shyguy@vdot.net>
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Subject: IGGA site problems?
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:07:27 -0500
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Has anyone tried to get to the IGGA.org site lately? I keep getting this
-
Socket Error

Connection refused by Remote Host 
Albert????
-- 
Adults are obsolete children
		Theodore Geisel
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 08:25:23 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: tips
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:19:24 -0500
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Suzanne wrote:
> 
> How frequently should you have to us the sal ammoniac block?  Seems to
> me I am having to use it too much.  There is rust on the neck of my
> tip..however I can get my tip tinned pretty well with the sal
> ammoniac...
> 
> Also it is going from too hot, to too cool in a flash.  Not sure how
> that is possible...but happening fast.  Think it is time for a new tip?
> 
> Guess what...So far the fan lamp that has come out the best?  *My own*
> original design. (Suzanne does a little happy dance) Also, I made it
> with the glass I had left from that lamp shade I told ya'll about.  It
> is beautiful lit.  ;o)
> 
> Tulsa Suzanne (dont peg me for bipolar personality disorder yet, Ok?)
> --
> ~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


al amoniac should'nt be used too much. it's an every so often thing,
like eating a juicy cake.... though it sounds more like a cross between
a new tip and a new iron. the tip itself is rusting, or corroding which
can't be stopped. is the heat is fluctuating it's time for a new iron.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 08:45:57 1998
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From: Bob the Dinosaur <shyguy@vdot.net>
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Subject: igga site
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:26:06 -0500
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It works now, never mind.
-- 
Adults are obsolete children
		Theodore Geisel
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 09:15:13 1998
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Subject: Re: IGGA Site Problems
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:55:59 -0800
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Worked fine for me Bob. I even cleared my cache before I attempted it a
second time.

Have you been nice to your computer lately? Maybe it needs a hug & a big
ole kiss :)

Bye

Pam *sm*

--
*********************************
The Stained Glass Artists
Pamela Burns-Tappan
Executive Director:
Advertising & Marketing


Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

Join our live glass chat!
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.igga.org/


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	for rglass-42; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:39:30 -0800 (PST)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: alpha.nad.adelphia.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: IGGA site problems?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@pop>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 11:37:33 +0000
Message-ID: <199811241629.LAA28096@alpha.nad.adelphia.net>
Precedence: bulk


> Has anyone tried to get to the IGGA.org site lately? I keep getting 
> Socket Error 
> Connection refused by Remote Host 
> Albert????

Hmm. I would guess you'll have to touch base with your local ISP and 
ask them. I've connected with the site maybe 30 times already today 
(doing some work on it) and have had no problem at all. On the other 
hand, I just sent out 450 email messages to IGGA list members, so 
perhaps it's just busy.

Albert
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 10:17:29 1998
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: ix.netcom.com!wernecke
From: Steve Wernecke <wernecke@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Copyright question
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:08:57 -0800
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981124090857.00d3e7e0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
References: <<1998Nov23.124534.0>>
Precedence: bulk

URL for the US Copyright Office is <http://lcweb.loc.gov/copyright/>.

Steve
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 10:49:38 1998
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X-Path: fair.net!andor
From: "Linda Letscher" <andor@fair.net>
To: "GlassTalk" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Pricing
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:34:06 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov24.7346.0>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE17A6.BA02ACA0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I know this subject probably has been discussed adnauseam.  But I would like
to get some imput.
Sq. Foot vs. Detailed Job Cost (taking into consideration time and product
use).  I sometimes tend to underpice my creations due to lack of confidence,
fear of losing the sale or whatever.  I know I do good work, but early on I
charged a low price for fear of not selling.  I have since gone to price per
square foot, if it is extremely complicated or with expensive bevels I
increase the price.  I have never had anyone to compare notes with.  So I
just did what I thought was a fair price.

Today I gave a price on a small 10x15 window, fairly simple, lead kitchen
pig design at $90.00 a square foot.  They lady said wow that is expensive.
I said well that is the price.  When I look at the price I came up with, it
looks low to me.  This woman is a chef and wants several windows all with
different veggies and fruit on them.  I get the feeling she is going to hang
these from the rafters in the kitchen or something.  So over the long term
she could give me quite a bit of business.  So do I buckle under and give
her a "deal" or just stick to my guns?

I read the Common Ground article but there were only 2 people that had
weighed in on their opinion.

Thanks guys.
Eljay

------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE17A6.BA02ACA0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I know this subject probably has =
been discussed=20
adnauseam.&nbsp; But I would like to get some imput.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Sq. Foot vs. Detailed Job Cost =
(taking into=20
consideration time and product use).&nbsp; I sometimes tend to underpice =
my=20
creations due to lack of confidence, fear of losing the sale or =
whatever.&nbsp;=20
I know I do good work, but early on I charged a low price for fear of =
not=20
selling.&nbsp; I have since gone to price per square foot, if it is =
extremely=20
complicated or with expensive bevels I increase the price.&nbsp; I have =
never=20
had anyone to compare notes with.&nbsp; So I just did what I thought was =
a fair=20
price.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Today I gave a price on a small =
10x15 window,=20
fairly simple, lead kitchen pig design at $90.00 a square foot.&nbsp; =
They lady=20
said wow that is expensive.&nbsp; I said well that is the price.&nbsp; =
When I=20
look at the price I came up with, it looks low to me.&nbsp; This woman =
is a chef=20
and wants several windows all with <FONT color=3D#000000>different =
</FONT>veggies=20
and fruit on them.&nbsp; I get the feeling she is going to hang these =
from the=20
rafters in the kitchen or something.&nbsp; So over the long term she =
could give=20
me quite a bit of business.&nbsp; So do I buckle under and give her a=20
&quot;deal&quot; or just stick to my guns?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I read the Common Ground article but =
there were=20
only 2 people that had weighed in on their opinion.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks guys.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eljay</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE17A6.BA02ACA0--

----
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 11:22:11 1998
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Received: by daver.bungi.com
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 11:04:57 -0800 (PST)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: fair.net!andor
From: "Linda Letscher" <andor@fair.net>
To: "GlassTalk" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Pricing
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 14:03:45 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov24.9345.0>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BE17B3.40205C40
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I know this subject probably has been discussed adnauseam.  But I would like
to get some imput.
Sq. Foot vs. Detailed Job Cost (taking into consideration time and product
use).  I sometimes tend to underpice my creations due to lack of confidence,
fear of losing the sale or whatever.  I know I do good work, but early on I
charged a low price for fear of not selling.  I have since gone to price per
square foot, if it is extremely complicated or with expensive bevels I
increase the price.  I have never had anyone to compare notes with.  So I
just did what I thought was a fair price.

Today I gave a price on a small 10x15 window, fairly simple, lead kitchen
pig design at $90.00 a square foot.  They lady said wow that is expensive.
I said well that is the price.  When I look at the price I came up with, it
looks low to me.  This woman is a chef and wants several windows all with
different veggies and fruit on them.  I get the feeling she is going to hang
these from the rafters in the kitchen or something.  So over the long term
she could give me quite a bit of business.  So do I buckle under and give
her a "deal" or just stick to my guns?

I read the Common Ground article but there were only 2 people that had
weighed in on their opinion.

Thanks guys.
Eljay

------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BE17B3.40205C40
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I know this subject probably has =
been discussed=20
adnauseam.&nbsp; But I would like to get some imput.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Sq. Foot vs. Detailed Job Cost =
(taking into=20
consideration time and product use).&nbsp; I sometimes tend to underpice =
my=20
creations due to lack of confidence, fear of losing the sale or =
whatever.&nbsp;=20
I know I do good work, but early on I charged a low price for fear of =
not=20
selling.&nbsp; I have since gone to price per square foot, if it is =
extremely=20
complicated or with expensive bevels I increase the price.&nbsp; I have =
never=20
had anyone to compare notes with.&nbsp; So I just did what I thought was =
a fair=20
price.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Today I gave a price on a small =
10x15 window,=20
fairly simple, lead kitchen pig design at $90.00 a square foot.&nbsp; =
They lady=20
said wow that is expensive.&nbsp; I said well that is the price.&nbsp; =
When I=20
look at the price I came up with, it looks low to me.&nbsp; This woman =
is a chef=20
and wants several windows all with <FONT color=3D#000000>different =
</FONT>veggies=20
and fruit on them.&nbsp; I get the feeling she is going to hang these =
from the=20
rafters in the kitchen or something.&nbsp; So over the long term she =
could give=20
me quite a bit of business.&nbsp; So do I buckle under and give her a=20
&quot;deal&quot; or just stick to my guns?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I read the Common Ground article but =
there were=20
only 2 people that had weighed in on their opinion.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks guys.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eljay</FONT></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BE17B3.40205C40--

----
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 11:51:58 1998
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com
	via smail with stdio
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 11:05:29 -0800 (PST)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: stratus.com!Charles_Spitzer
From: "Charles Spitzer" <Charles_Spitzer@stratus.com>
To: <andor@fair.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Pricing
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:01:37 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Nov24.5137.0>
Precedence: bulk

well, if you give her a price break now, you'll have to do so again in the
future. you may want to give her a break if she makes one big order now,
rather than a lot 'possibly' in the future.

i've given breaks before where i really wanted the business (it was visible
in an office with a lot of people that i could have gotten other work from).
i considered it an advertising cost.

regards,
charlie
phx, az
-----Original Message-----
From: andor@fair.net <andor@fair.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 10:34 AM
Subject: Pricing


>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE17A6.BA02ACA0
>Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>I know this subject probably has been discussed adnauseam.  But I would
like
>to get some imput.
>Sq. Foot vs. Detailed Job Cost (taking into consideration time and product
>use).  I sometimes tend to underpice my creations due to lack of
confidence,
>fear of losing the sale or whatever.  I know I do good work, but early on I
>charged a low price for fear of not selling.  I have since gone to price
per
>square foot, if it is extremely complicated or with expensive bevels I
>increase the price.  I have never had anyone to compare notes with.  So I
>just did what I thought was a fair price.
>
>Today I gave a price on a small 10x15 window, fairly simple, lead kitchen
>pig design at $90.00 a square foot.  They lady said wow that is expensive.
>I said well that is the price.  When I look at the price I came up with, it
>looks low to me.  This woman is a chef and wants several windows all with
>different veggies and fruit on them.  I get the feeling she is going to
hang
>these from the rafters in the kitchen or something.  So over the long term
>she could give me quite a bit of business.  So do I buckle under and give
>her a "deal" or just stick to my guns?
>
>I read the Common Ground article but there were only 2 people that had
>weighed in on their opinion.
>
>Thanks guys.
>Eljay
>
>------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE17A6.BA02ACA0
>Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
><HTML>
><HEAD>
>
><META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
>http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
><META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I know this subject probably has =
>been discussed=20
>adnauseam.&nbsp; But I would like to get some imput.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Sq. Foot vs. Detailed Job Cost =
>(taking into=20
>consideration time and product use).&nbsp; I sometimes tend to underpice =
>my=20
>creations due to lack of confidence, fear of losing the sale or =
>whatever.&nbsp;=20
>I know I do good work, but early on I charged a low price for fear of =
>not=20
>selling.&nbsp; I have since gone to price per square foot, if it is =
>extremely=20
>complicated or with expensive bevels I increase the price.&nbsp; I have =
>never=20
>had anyone to compare notes with.&nbsp; So I just did what I thought was =
>a fair=20
>price.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Today I gave a price on a small =
>10x15 window,=20
>fairly simple, lead kitchen pig design at $90.00 a square foot.&nbsp; =
>They lady=20
>said wow that is expensive.&nbsp; I said well that is the price.&nbsp; =
>When I=20
>look at the price I came up with, it looks low to me.&nbsp; This woman =
>is a chef=20
>and wants several windows all with <FONT color=3D#000000>different =
></FONT>veggies=20
>and fruit on them.&nbsp; I get the feeling she is going to hang these =
>from the=20
>rafters in the kitchen or something.&nbsp; So over the long term she =
>could give=20
>me quite a bit of business.&nbsp; So do I buckle under and give her a=20
>&quot;deal&quot; or just stick to my guns?</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I read the Common Ground article but =
>there were=20
>only 2 people that had weighed in on their opinion.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks guys.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eljay</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
>------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE17A6.BA02ACA0--
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 12:20:34 1998
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 11:09:35 -0800 (PST)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Reinforcement Question
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:58:19 -0500
Message-ID: <199811241902.OAA15373@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

Greetings!

I am making a transom 12" high x 67" wide in copper foil. It will be 
edged in zinc to fit inside the clear glass window, so the bottom will be 
resting on a small ledge and sides put inside molding.

The design is top-heavy with ivy on a trellis going all the way across 
and down the two sides, and the address in the middle. Bottom is strips 
of 6" wide glass, 2" high.

What's the best way to reinforce this? Three strips of copper re-strip 
going vertically, or maybe two going horizontally? Or both?

Thanks for your advice!

Suzanne


----
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 12:25:41 1998
Return-Path: <owner-glass>
Received: by daver.bungi.com
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	id <m0ziOQi-0000I6a@daver.bungi.com>
	for rglass-42; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 11:47:20 -0800 (PST)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: one.net!kleeman
From: one.net!kleeman
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Pricing
Date: Tue Nov 24 11:46:05 1998
Message-ID: <1998Nov25.9225.0>
Precedence: bulk

linda
i am sure this is going to start an fight in the group, but here is what i
do
i charge per square foot ($50.00 for foil per foot and $70.00 for lead per
foot) plus $1.00 per piece in the design.  if i use bevels i use my retail
price added to the above (i am a store front, so have front end prices which
are double cost).  i also charge $25.00 for me to draw the design.  this is
competitive in my area, cheap in most parts of the country.  i do not do
installations, but have someone who will do them for me, or i usually
recommend the customer aquire their own contractor.
when i have a customer come in for custom er work, i try to find out what
they like--gemetric, flowers, birds, etc--have them get me the exact
dimensions, then i do three or four drawings, and let them have them to look
at, if they like one of them, i have the pricing listed on the side of the
drawing with my name and date--if they don't like what they saw, i find out
what they did and did not like and go from there.  all this for $25.00--but
as i said, in this area of the country, it is all i can do.
has worked for me for 6 years
thanx
debbie
-----Original Message-----
From: Linda Letscher <andor@fair.net>
To: GlassTalk <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 2:15 PM
Subject: Pricing


>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE17A6.BA02ACA0
>Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>I know this subject probably has been discussed adnauseam.  But I would
like
>to get some imput.
>Sq. Foot vs. Detailed Job Cost (taking into consideration time and product
>use).  I sometimes tend to underpice my creations due to lack of
confidence,
>fear of losing the sale or whatever.  I know I do good work, but early on I
>charged a low price for fear of not selling.  I have since gone to price
per
>square foot, if it is extremely complicated or with expensive bevels I
>increase the price.  I have never had anyone to compare notes with.  So I
>just did what I thought was a fair price.
>
>Today I gave a price on a small 10x15 window, fairly simple, lead kitchen
>pig design at $90.00 a square foot.  They lady said wow that is expensive.
>I said well that is the price.  When I look at the price I came up with, it
>looks low to me.  This woman is a chef and wants several windows all with
>different veggies and fruit on them.  I get the feeling she is going to
hang
>these from the rafters in the kitchen or something.  So over the long term
>she could give me quite a bit of business.  So do I buckle under and give
>her a "deal" or just stick to my guns?
>
>I read the Common Ground article but there were only 2 people that had
>weighed in on their opinion.
>
>Thanks guys.
>Eljay
>
>------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE17A6.BA02ACA0
>Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
><HTML>
><HEAD>
>
><META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
>http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
><META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I know this subject probably has =
>been discussed=20
>adnauseam.&nbsp; But I would like to get some imput.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Sq. Foot vs. Detailed Job Cost =
>(taking into=20
>consideration time and product use).&nbsp; I sometimes tend to underpice =
>my=20
>creations due to lack of confidence, fear of losing the sale or =
>whatever.&nbsp;=20
>I know I do good work, but early on I charged a low price for fear of =
>not=20
>selling.&nbsp; I have since gone to price per square foot, if it is =
>extremely=20
>complicated or with expensive bevels I increase the price.&nbsp; I have =
>never=20
>had anyone to compare notes with.&nbsp; So I just did what I thought was =
>a fair=20
>price.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Today I gave a price on a small =
>10x15 window,=20
>fairly simple, lead kitchen pig design at $90.00 a square foot.&nbsp; =
>They lady=20
>said wow that is expensive.&nbsp; I said well that is the price.&nbsp; =
>When I=20
>look at the price I came up with, it looks low to me.&nbsp; This woman =
>is a chef=20
>and wants several windows all with <FONT color=3D#000000>different =
></FONT>veggies=20
>and fruit on them.&nbsp; I get the feeling she is going to hang these =
>from the=20
>rafters in the kitchen or something.&nbsp; So over the long term she =
>could give=20
>me quite a bit of business.&nbsp; So do I buckle under and give her a=20
>&quot;deal&quot; or just stick to my guns?</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I read the Common Ground article but =
>there were=20
>only 2 people that had weighed in on their opinion.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks guys.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eljay</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
>------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE17A6.BA02ACA0--
>
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 12:56:38 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "GlassTalk" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Pricing
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 14:34:03 -0500
Message-ID: <199811241938.OAA19192@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

Eljay wrote:
>
>Today I gave a price on a small 10x15 window, fairly simple, lead kitchen
>pig design at $90.00 a square foot.  They lady said wow that is expensive.
>I said well that is the price.  When I look at the price I came up with, it
>looks low to me.  This woman is a chef and wants several windows all with
>different veggies and fruit on them.  I get the feeling she is going to hang
>these from the rafters in the kitchen or something.  So over the long term
>she could give me quite a bit of business.  So do I buckle under and give
>her a "deal" or just stick to my guns?

Stick to your price. It's in the ballpark. Don't ever count on work you 
don't have in your hot little hands, or let people manipulate you with 
promises.

When she shows you the menu at her restaurant do you bargain over the 
price of the steak? :)

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 13:16:41 1998
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep
From: "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
To: "Linda Letscher" <andor@fair.net>, "GlassTalk" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Pricing
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 19:47:16 -0000
Message-ID: <1998Nov24.194716.0>
Precedence: bulk

Eljay!

Loss leaders only work for super markets who have a whole range of other
products to sell.

If you under price on one then you will wind up under pricing on the whole
order!

Customers can be a cunning breed! She might be dangling the carrot of more
orders just to get a discount on this one panel - the only one she really
wants.

You could tell her that it is already a keen price but you 'might' be could
do a 'cash back' after you have delivered the whole order 'if it is big
enough' and if there is 'enough margin in it'.

Stand by your price would be my suggestion! If she doesn't buy then it's her
loss.

Almost all the craft workers I have ever met have a problem with pricing. As
you say it's really a matter of confidence. All I can say to you is - if YOU
don't know what it's really worth then how can you expect a customer know?

Some people automatically say exclaim 'How much!' What they are really
saying is 'I am interested but I want to bargain on the price'! This
underlines the idea that you should make sure you are asking enough
initially then there would be a little room for you have a dignified haggle!

BIGGGGGG subject pricing!

Don't weaken!


Regards

Brian



-----Original Message-----
From: Linda Letscher <andor@fair.net>
To: GlassTalk <glass@bungi.com>
Date: 24 November 1998 18:57
Subject: Pricing


>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE17A6.BA02ACA0
>Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>I know this subject probably has been discussed adnauseam.  But I would
like
>to get some imput.
>Sq. Foot vs. Detailed Job Cost (taking into consideration time and product
>use).  I sometimes tend to underpice my creations due to lack of
confidence,
>fear of losing the sale or whatever.  I know I do good work, but early on I
>charged a low price for fear of not selling.  I have since gone to price
per
>square foot, if it is extremely complicated or with expensive bevels I
>increase the price.  I have never had anyone to compare notes with.  So I
>just did what I thought was a fair price.
>
>Today I gave a price on a small 10x15 window, fairly simple, lead kitchen
>pig design at $90.00 a square foot.  They lady said wow that is expensive.
>I said well that is the price.  When I look at the price I came up with, it
>looks low to me.  This woman is a chef and wants several windows all with
>different veggies and fruit on them.  I get the feeling she is going to
hang
>these from the rafters in the kitchen or something.  So over the long term
>she could give me quite a bit of business.  So do I buckle under and give
>her a "deal" or just stick to my guns?
>
>I read the Common Ground article but there were only 2 people that had
>weighed in on their opinion.
>
>Thanks guys.
>Eljay
>
>------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE17A6.BA02ACA0
>Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
><HTML>
><HEAD>
>
><META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
>http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
><META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I know this subject probably has =
>been discussed=20
>adnauseam.&nbsp; But I would like to get some imput.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Sq. Foot vs. Detailed Job Cost =
>(taking into=20
>consideration time and product use).&nbsp; I sometimes tend to underpice =
>my=20
>creations due to lack of confidence, fear of losing the sale or =
>whatever.&nbsp;=20
>I know I do good work, but early on I charged a low price for fear of =
>not=20
>selling.&nbsp; I have since gone to price per square foot, if it is =
>extremely=20
>complicated or with expensive bevels I increase the price.&nbsp; I have =
>never=20
>had anyone to compare notes with.&nbsp; So I just did what I thought was =
>a fair=20
>price.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Today I gave a price on a small =
>10x15 window,=20
>fairly simple, lead kitchen pig design at $90.00 a square foot.&nbsp; =
>They lady=20
>said wow that is expensive.&nbsp; I said well that is the price.&nbsp; =
>When I=20
>look at the price I came up with, it looks low to me.&nbsp; This woman =
>is a chef=20
>and wants several windows all with <FONT color=3D#000000>different =
></FONT>veggies=20
>and fruit on them.&nbsp; I get the feeling she is going to hang these =
>from the=20
>rafters in the kitchen or something.&nbsp; So over the long term she =
>could give=20
>me quite a bit of business.&nbsp; So do I buckle under and give her a=20
>&quot;deal&quot; or just stick to my guns?</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I read the Common Ground article but =
>there were=20
>only 2 people that had weighed in on their opinion.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks guys.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eljay</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
>------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE17A6.BA02ACA0--
>
>----
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>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 13:59:21 1998
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #9 built 1998-Oct-12)
X-Path: netcom.ca!wellwood
From: "wellwood" <wellwood@netcom.ca>
To: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>, "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Reinforcement Question
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 15:57:02 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov24.10572.0>
Precedence: bulk

I think 3 vertical should do it.  I did a transom a few years ago a little
higher and narrower and it hasn't sagged at all.

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 14:30:10 1998
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: Pricing
Date: Tue Nov 24 13:28:48 1998
Message-ID: <1998Nov25.11448.0>
Precedence: bulk

I agree with Suzanne.  Stick to your price. In the long run $90
shouldn't make or break you.
(Easy for me to say I do this for fun). That is a good price. It may pay
to let her shop around and then come back.
If you really want the order you can tell her that if the order were
bigger you would have more flexibility but for one piece this size that
is the price.

Vic

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	suzy@comcat.com [mailto:suzy@ComCAT.COM]
		Sent:	Tuesday, November 24, 1998 2:34 PM
		To:	GlassTalk
		Subject:	Re: Pricing

		Eljay wrote:
		>
		>Today I gave a price on a small 10x15 window, fairly
simple, lead kitchen
		>pig design at $90.00 a square foot.  They lady said wow
that is expensive.
		>I said well that is the price.  When I look at the
price I came up with, it
		>looks low to me.  This woman is a chef and wants
several windows all with
		>different veggies and fruit on them.  I get the feeling
she is going to hang
		>these from the rafters in the kitchen or something.  So
over the long term
		>she could give me quite a bit of business.  So do I
buckle under and give
		>her a "deal" or just stick to my guns?

		Stick to your price. It's in the ballpark. Don't ever
count on work you 
		don't have in your hot little hands, or let people
manipulate you with 
		promises.

		When she shows you the menu at her restaurant do you
bargain over the 
		price of the steak? :)

		Suzanne
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 15:03:49 1998
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:52:58 -0800 (PST)
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Reinforcement Question
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:51:50 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1998Nov24.55150.0>
References: <<199811241902.OAA15373@uz.ComCAT.COM>>
Precedence: bulk

Suzanne:  I would not be concerned with vertical reinforcement if you are
doing copper foil.  If it makes you feel better, you may want to do two or
three copper strips between pieces going vertical but since the piece fits
into the zinc came at the top and molding on the sides, you have all the
reinforcement you need.  Just my thoughts.  Peggy

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 15:27:15 1998
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: daver!one.net!kleeman@slonet.org
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Pricing
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:56:09 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1998Nov24.5569.0>
References: <<1998Nov25.9225.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Debbie.  You say you do copperfoil work @ $50 sq/ft and lead came at
$70 per sq/ft.  This is just the opposite for me.  I charge $90 per sq/ft
for copperfoil work and $80 per sq/ft for lead came.  I add $25 for design
and charge framing and bevels in addition.  The reason I charge more for
copperfoil it because it is more labor intensive than the lead came.  In
fact I mostly do lead came for windows.  Peggy

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 15:29:21 1998
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X-Path: erols.com!deethom
From: Dee Thompson <deethom@erols.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: stained glass exchange request
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:36:45 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199811242236.RAA22621@smtp1.erols.com>
Precedence: bulk

that could be kinda' interesting...a crazy quilt!
Dee...Patuxent Studios...Savage, Md
>everyone that swaps glass with you engraved their name and where they're
>from on the glass.Why not set up a chain letter style thing with 5 names.
>Then at the end, if everyone comes through, you'd get 15625 pcs....WOW !!!!
>
>Arnold Schneider    Creekside Creations    Richfield, PA

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 15:55:37 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: glass@intrastar.net
Subject: Re: Bulk came or pieces
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 22:27:46 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Nov24.222746.0>
References: <<199811231711.MAA11242@mime3.prodigy.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Hey Bob,

It sounds like we get a better deal on at least one thing over here that
you dont.  

a full box 50Kg or about 110 pounds of a single or at most two types of
came costs about 75 UK pounds over here.  The single length cost would
be about 120.  That seems to be a much bigger discount than you are
talking about.
(unless the single lenght prices are much less than in the UK, of
course)

STeve

In message <199811231711.MAA11242@mime3.prodigy.com>, BOB   DUCHESNEAU
<YWAH36A@prodigy.com> writes
...........cut.............
> If 
>you buy 50 pounds of assorted came you may get a small discount. Ask 
>for and get a 20% discount over the single strip price if you buy a 
>50 pound box of one size came.

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 15:59:22 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Reinforcement Question
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:33:34 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov24.133334.0>
Precedence: bulk

We use 14 perimter feet as the =

guideline before worrying about
reinforcement.  So, a 2ft x 7ft window
ought to be okay  with your situation.
If you're uncomfortable with the narrow-
ness, a couple of reinforcements =

should be more than adequate.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 17:10:16 1998
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 15:48:24 -0800 (PST)
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X-Path: jobexchange.com!jobex
From: jobex@jobexchange.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Finish your resume online today
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 15:42:05 -0800
Message-ID: <199811242342.PAA15142@johndoe.guidance.com>
Precedence: bulk

	
		
Dear IT Specialist:

The demand today for qualified persons having computer-related skills
has never been higher!  Even if you are presently employed, you need to
have your resume on the Internet to be available when better
opportunities present themselves.

The JobExchange has thousands of employers searching its database daily
for qualified talent.  Your resume can be one of the ones they see if
you will take five minutes now to complete the questionnaire, which
helps people to find you.  This questionnaire will attach automatically
to your resume, which is already in our system.  It's that easy!

Go now to "http://www.jobexchange.com/cfm/route_jobseeker.cfm?r=8&re=1&reid=35911&cs=369924212"
and complete the form.  You should probably change your password to
something easier to remember.  Then, while you are at it, take a few
minutes extra if you like and complete the Caliper Strengths Assessment
Profile.  You may see the results of the assessment and decide whether
you want to make it part of your resume.
Thanks and good luck.

Webmaster
Jobex@jobexchange.com
www.Jobexchange.com
(800) 562-7030




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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 18:36:05 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!JKSinrod
From: JKSinrod@aol.com
To: andor@fair.net, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Pricing
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:34:11 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov25.13411.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 11/24/98 1:51:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, andor@fair.net
writes:

<< Subj:	 Pricing
 Date:	11/24/98 1:51:06 PM Eastern Standard Time
 From:	andor@fair.net (Linda Letscher)
 To:	glass@bungi.com (GlassTalk)
 
>>>> 
 I know this subject probably has been discussed adnauseam.  But I would like
 to get some imput.
 Sq. Foot vs. Detailed Job Cost (taking into consideration time and product
 use).  I sometimes tend to underpice my creations due to lack of confidence,
 fear of losing the sale or whatever.  I know I do good work, but early on I
 charged a low price for fear of not selling.  I have since gone to price per
 square foot, if it is extremely complicated or with expensive bevels I
 increase the price.  I have never had anyone to compare notes with.  So I
 just did what I thought was a fair price.
 
 Today I gave a price on a small 10x15 window, fairly simple, lead kitchen
 pig design at $90.00 a square foot.  They lady said wow that is expensive.
 I said well that is the price.  When I look at the price I came up with, it
 looks low to me.  This woman is a chef and wants several windows all with
 >different veggies and fruit on them.  I get the feeling she is going to hang
 >these from the rafters in the kitchen or something.  So over the long term
> she could give me quite a bit of business.  So do I buckle under and give
> .her a "deal" or just stick to my guns?
 
 >>I read the Common Ground article but there were only 2 people that had
 >>weighed in on their opinion.
 
 >>Thanks guys.
 >>Eljay
  >>

         The price you gave seemed fair to me. By all means get the job at all
costs, as long as you're still making a reasonable amount of money.  Why not
do this....  Tell her you'll give her a great price to do all the windows at
once. A deposit against several windows will enable you to do them cheaper.  1
window for $125 does not motivate as much as 5 for $500!! As far as general
pricing, I agree that most of my former students underestimate their work.
Don't get stuck on sq ft pricing if you can get more. You also should use what
I call the perceived value of a piece. The best way to get comfortable with
this, is to go all over and see what others are getting.

 <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/JKSinrod/sinrod.html">Sinrod Stained Glass
Studios</A> 
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 19:04:52 1998
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X-Path: eatumup.com!byronw
From: byronw@eatumup.com (Byron Wells)
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: The Glass Eye - Is It Worth It??
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 19:52:26 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov24.135226.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Linda...

I've own both Glass Eye and Designer and prefer Glass Eye hands down... I've
used it a lot 'on the job' with my laptop... The customers love the fact
that I can manipulate all parts of the drawing on the spot...

When I  originally downloaded the demo version it would do everything the
full version did except save,print and I believe scan... Other than that it
was fully working...

If your looking to buy you might wait a bit... Version 2 is supposed to be
released in December with many new improvements and lots more stock bevels
etc built in...

It also works fine if you want to see how different bevel clusters work in
panels..Just scan the pictures in,resize to proportion and use em as a
background...

Byron...
Wells Glassworks

-----Original Message-----
From: Linda Letscher <andor@fair.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Sunday, November 22, 1998 9:53 AM
Subject: The Glass Eye - Is It Worth It??


>Greetings Folks,
>A while back I downloaded the sample copy of the software, basically all =
>I saw was some patterns, it lost my interest very quickly.  Just in the =
>last couple of days I was looking around and found out that what they =
>give you to down load to try is a sample of the software, less design =
>capabilities.  I thought it sucked becuase there was no way to see what =
>they were really offering, so I just deleted it.  Now that I know they =
>only give you a sample of their patterns and that you have to order the =
>real thing.  I would like some feedback.  Anyone using it and feel it =
>was well worth the money.  I didn't order it as the sample didn't really =
>fit my needs.  I don' t mind spending the money but only if it is good =
>software that is easy to use, that you can do your window designs =
>without being a computer engineer or CAD expert, and someone here feels =
>it is a good tool.
>Thanks for your input.
>Eljay
>


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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 19:33:18 1998
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From: one.net!kleeman
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Pricing
Date: Tue Nov 24 18:23:33 1998
Message-ID: <1998Nov25.155933.0>
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peggy
i don't have any reason why i charge the way i do, except it is how i was
taught.  i used to work for a delphi franchise, and they always charged more
for lead.  i do about 50/50 in custom work, but do mostly copper foil for
the studio windows--
thanx
have a great t-day
debbie
-----Original Message-----
From: Peggy W. Johnsen <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: daver!one.net!kleeman@slonet.org <daver!one.net!kleeman@slonet.org>
Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: Pricing


>Hi Debbie.  You say you do copperfoil work @ $50 sq/ft and lead came at
>$70 per sq/ft.  This is just the opposite for me.  I charge $90 per sq/ft
>for copperfoil work and $80 per sq/ft for lead came.  I add $25 for design
>and charge framing and bevels in addition.  The reason I charge more for
>copperfoil it because it is more labor intensive than the lead came.  In
>fact I mostly do lead came for windows.  Peggy
>
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 20:07:20 1998
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: How hard can it be?
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 22:04:42 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov24.17442.0>
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I  ran by my supplier's today (actually, I drove, and the roads were
parking lots, so it took FOREVER), and she was telling me about people
who are coming in now, asking about lessons, thinking they can maybe
whip out some stained glass for Christmas presents.

Dorothy K

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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 20:35:13 1998
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X-Path: fair.net!andor
From: "Linda Letscher" <andor@fair.net>
To: "bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Pricing   Thanks
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 22:08:00 -0500
Message-ID: <199811250306.WAA22744@smtp.america.net>
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I appreciate all the input on pricing, believe me I am listening to all of
you.

I thought I would take this time, in case tomorrow gets away from me, to
wish you all (well the folks here in the USA) a HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!

Eljay


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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 21:40:42 1998
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: How hard can it be?
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 23:27:39 -0500
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>I  ran by my supplier's today (actually, I drove, and the roads were
>parking lots, so it took FOREVER), and she was telling me about people
>who are coming in now, asking about lessons, thinking they can maybe
>whip out some stained glass for Christmas presents.
>
>Dorothy K

Guess they'll find out in a hurry!!! :)
Suzanne
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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 22:01:33 1998
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From: "Linda Letscher" <andor@fair.net>
To: "Family Account" <shad@mail2.nai.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: How hard can it be?
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 23:25:22 -0500
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How amusing Dorothy, yea take one lesson and make 20 gifts for all the
family in the next 20 days.
Maybe a piece like my first one, the 4 piece apple, 2 pieces of red for the
apple and 2 leaves......  I was going through old paper work and just found
the original pattern, with the flux and solder marks still on it.  God only
knows where that piece of "art" went...   People never understand what it
takes.

I had a friend call me one time, they had bought a Victorian Mansion and
were restoring it.  We had never been house guest but for some reason she
called and invited us up to visit for the weekend.  200 mile trip.  I told
her I would have to check and get back to her.  Then she said, "oh bring you
stained glass stuff, so you can teach me how to do it, so I can do the
windows in the house".  Yea right, when pigs fly.  I think that she actually
thought I would say "Oh shucks, I will be right up and do all the windows
for you house for free."  Well needless to say we didn't go up that weekend
for a visit.......  Amazing....

Eljay
-----Original Message-----
From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 11:16 PM
Subject: How hard can it be?


>I  ran by my supplier's today (actually, I drove, and the roads were
>parking lots, so it took FOREVER), and she was telling me about people
>who are coming in now, asking about lessons, thinking they can maybe
>whip out some stained glass for Christmas presents.
>
>Dorothy K
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


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From owner-glass Tue Nov 24 23:34:59 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Bulk came or pieces
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 01:40:21 -0500
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Hi Steve-

The last 45 pound box of lead I bought
(a few days ago) cost me $1.20 per pound.
How does that compare to your currency?

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/ =

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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'wellwood'" <wellwood@netcom.ca>, "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Reinforcement Question
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:45:11 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov25.44511.0>
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Wellwood said.
I think 3 vertical should do it.  I did a transom a few years ago a little
higher and narrower and it hasn't sagged at all.


[Linda Campbell]

I hadn't thought of sagging but it makes sense. My first inclination would 
be to put the reinforcement across the long side to prevent it from 
bending, like making an I-beam of it. If it can't bend, it can't sag. What 
is the rule of thumb here?

Linda

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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Pricing
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:19:11 -0500
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Message text written by "Linda Letscher"
>Today I gave a price on a small 10x15 window, fairly simple, lead kitche=
n
pig design at $90.00 a square foot.  They lady said wow that is expensive=

From owner-glass Wed Nov 25 11:18:52 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
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Subject: Reinforcement Question
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:19:04 -0500
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Message text written by "suzy@comcat.com"
>What's the best way to reinforce this? Three strips of copper re-strip =

going vertically, or maybe two going horizontally? Or both?<

Three vertical strips.  You might want to use Strong Line.  It =

is copper-clad stainless steel.  Much stronger.  You are working
against a design which will want to flex since it's top-heavy.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 25 12:26:14 1998
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Subject: Re: stained glass exchange request
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:30:52 EST
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In a message dated 11/24/98 3:31:53 PM Pacific Standard Time,
deethom@erols.com writes:

<< Why not set up a chain letter style thing with 5 names.
 >Then at the end, if everyone comes through, you'd get 15625 pcs....WOW !!!!
 > >>

The people at the bottom of pyramid schemes always get robbed.
My preference would be more of a one on one exchange if possible.
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 25 13:22:45 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Pricing in ballpark?
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:03:17 -0600
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Hi everyone...
I know you have gone over and over and over....

but...please...

I need to send my booth fee in and describe my work and price ranges.

What do you think of my pricing?



Christmas ornaments  and light catchers $6-$45

fan lamps $45-$60 depending on design

8x8 bricks and pavers $25-$45 (some are over 50 peices of cut and fitted
glass)

Stepping and garden stones $60-$110...($110- full faced 16" hex)    
                                      ($100- full faced 14" round)
$60- $90 for glass bordered by aggregate 14"-16" stones.

How does that sound...ball park?

I had to run to the glass shop last night...they had small lightcatchers
in the window for $16...seemed high...am I too low???

Thanks for any input.

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Wed Nov 25 19:23:02 1998
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From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: "Intrastar List" <glass@intrastar.net>, "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: The Glass Eye new version
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:23:19 -0500
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Forwarding reply from Dragonfly about "The Glass Eye" software.

>Dear Karen:
>
>> I've heard your going to have an updated version of the Glass Eye out in
>Dec.  Is this true?
>
>No, I'm sorry to say it's not true. Our next version will be out no earlier
>than April 1999. The upgrade price at that time will be around $40, so it
>might be in your interest to purchase a copy now so you can use it between
>now and then.
>
>-Michael Wilk
> wilk@dfly.com
>

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From: "Linda Letscher" <andor@fair.net>
To: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>, "Intrastar List" <glass@intrastar.net>,
Subject: Re: The Glass Eye new version
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:04:08 -0500
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Precedence: bulk

Thanks for that information, I was concerned since I just ordered it and
would not get the new version, so now that I know it won't be coming I feel
better.  Whatever I get from the will be welcome and I can't wait to see
what I can do.
Happy Turkey Day, Eljay

-----Original Message-----
From: Karen K. <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: Intrastar List <glass@intrastar.net>; Bungi List <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 10:31 PM
Subject: Re: The Glass Eye new version


>
>Forwarding reply from Dragonfly about "The Glass Eye" software.
>
>>Dear Karen:
>>
>>> I've heard your going to have an updated version of the Glass Eye out in
>>Dec.  Is this true?
>>
>>No, I'm sorry to say it's not true. Our next version will be out no
earlier
>>than April 1999. The upgrade price at that time will be around $40, so it
>>might be in your interest to purchase a copy now so you can use it between
>>now and then.
>>
>>-Michael Wilk
>> wilk@dfly.com
>>
>
>----
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


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Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------47633C7E7EC004B112435EAC"
Subject: Adrienne's Garden
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:31:42 -0500
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------47633C7E7EC004B112435EAC
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Another url:
http://home.epix.net/~adrienne/

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<HTML>


<BGSOUND SRC="thinkme.mid" loop=2>

<EMBED SRC="thinkme.mid" loop=2 HIDDEN=TRUE>





<HEAD>
<TITLE>Adrienne's Garden </TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY><BODY 
<BODY BGCOLOR="67A7A5" TEXT="000000" LINK="8B3450" VLINK="000099" ALINK="AC4A00">

<MARQUEE ALIGN=MIDDLE>Welcome to Adrienne's Garden!!  Clicking the link will lead you to an explanation of the meaning of Adrienne's Garden. Thank you for visiting and please share the garden with others.</MARQUEE>


<H1><B><CENTER><B><U>Adrienne's Garden</U></B></CENTER></B></H1>
<CENTER><IMG SRC="garden.jpg"></CENTER><BR>
<H3><P><CENTER>In loving memory of <B>Adrienne P. Maillet</B></CENTER></H3>
<H4><P><CENTER>July 28, 1981 - Feb. 22, 1994</CENTER></H4>







<CENTER><P><A HREF="ag1.html"><BODY BGCOLOR="34A78D" TEXT="000000" LINK="911A54" VLINK="000093" ALINK="000000"><B>The Meaning of "Adrienne's Garden" </B></A></P></CENTER><BR>

<CENTER><P><A HREF="ag2.html"><BODY BGCOLOR="34A78D" TEXT="000000" LINK="911A54" VLINK="000093" ALINK="000000"><B>About Adrienne...</B></A></P></CENTER><BR>




<BR><H4>If you have suffered the loss of a loved one and are dealing with grief, please check out the following links:</H4><BR>

<BR><A HREF="HTTP://www.premier.net/~zoom"><B>Bill Chadwick's Page</B></A><BR>
<BR><A HREF="HTTP://www2.dgsys.com/~tgolden/1grief.html"><B>Tom Golden's Page</B></A><BR>
<BR><H4><CENTER><B><ADDRESS>Please feel free to contact me for grief support or comments regarding the garden.</B></CENTER> </H4><BR><CENTER><B>Lorraine Maillet at <A HREF="MAILTO:adrienne@epix.net">adrienne@epix.net</A>
</ADDRESS></B> </CENTER><BR>

<center> 
<img src="/cgi-bin/Count.cgi?ft=1&df=counter.dat">


<font size=1><BR>Copyright &copy; 1996 Lorraine Maillet.  All rights reserved. </font>



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From: Paula Smith-Lane <"pmsl@epix.net"@epix.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------54899318170B54E72C069ED1"
Subject: Andrienne's Garden
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:30:36 -0500
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------54899318170B54E72C069ED1
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Hi All,
 When with your family and friends this Thanksgiving, take a minute to
really give thanks. Most of us are so fortunate. Although my family is
having a crisis, we count out blessings. My father-in-law, who is 83,
has decided to stop his dialysis treatments. This, of course, means that
he has a prognosis of 7-10 days. While we are very saddened, we are also
in agreement with his decision, as he has suffered enough. He is at
peace with his  decision. While this is hard for us, our father had a
long and happy life.
 Please go to :
http://home.epix.net/~adrienne/
 This is Adrienne's Garden. Lorrine is my SG mentor. And a wonderful
lady. Her wonderful work of art dedicated to Adrienne is truly
inspiring. And a cause to pause to give thanks.
 Happy Thanksgiving to you all.
Paula

--------------54899318170B54E72C069ED1
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii; name="~adrienne"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="~adrienne"
Content-Base: "http://epix.net/%7Eadrienne"

<HTML>


<BGSOUND SRC="thinkme.mid" loop=2>

<EMBED SRC="thinkme.mid" loop=2 HIDDEN=TRUE>





<HEAD>
<TITLE>Adrienne's Garden </TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY><BODY 
<BODY BGCOLOR="67A7A5" TEXT="000000" LINK="8B3450" VLINK="000099" ALINK="AC4A00">

<MARQUEE ALIGN=MIDDLE>Welcome to Adrienne's Garden!!  Clicking the link will lead you to an explanation of the meaning of Adrienne's Garden. Thank you for visiting and please share the garden with others.</MARQUEE>


<H1><B><CENTER><B><U>Adrienne's Garden</U></B></CENTER></B></H1>
<CENTER><IMG SRC="garden.jpg"></CENTER><BR>
<H3><P><CENTER>In loving memory of <B>Adrienne P. Maillet</B></CENTER></H3>
<H4><P><CENTER>July 28, 1981 - Feb. 22, 1994</CENTER></H4>







<CENTER><P><A HREF="ag1.html"><BODY BGCOLOR="34A78D" TEXT="000000" LINK="911A54" VLINK="000093" ALINK="000000"><B>The Meaning of "Adrienne's Garden" </B></A></P></CENTER><BR>

<CENTER><P><A HREF="ag2.html"><BODY BGCOLOR="34A78D" TEXT="000000" LINK="911A54" VLINK="000093" ALINK="000000"><B>About Adrienne...</B></A></P></CENTER><BR>




<BR><H4>If you have suffered the loss of a loved one and are dealing with grief, please check out the following links:</H4><BR>

<BR><A HREF="HTTP://www.premier.net/~zoom"><B>Bill Chadwick's Page</B></A><BR>
<BR><A HREF="HTTP://www2.dgsys.com/~tgolden/1grief.html"><B>Tom Golden's Page</B></A><BR>
<BR><H4><CENTER><B><ADDRESS>Please feel free to contact me for grief support or comments regarding the garden.</B></CENTER> </H4><BR><CENTER><B>Lorraine Maillet at <A HREF="MAILTO:adrienne@epix.net">adrienne@epix.net</A>
</ADDRESS></B> </CENTER><BR>

<center> 
<img src="/cgi-bin/Count.cgi?ft=1&df=counter.dat">


<font size=1><BR>Copyright &copy; 1996 Lorraine Maillet.  All rights reserved. </font>



</BODY>
</HTML>
--------------54899318170B54E72C069ED1--

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 26 11:07:37 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: classes, PLEASE re-post data, MELTDOWN
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:45:07 -0800
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Happy 'T/DAY!

I had a meltdown (and with my VERY limited skills with the computer) and all
my e-mail stuff is GONE! I did however mangage to retain my address book,
but all correspondence is gone. I am asking all potential students to
re-post with experience, desire as to dome or panel lamp and so on.

I am gradually coming up with a "teaching format" and we can plan on getting
into this after the IMPENDING holidays. Mid January or so.

I wish my computer skills were on a par with my glass skills.

be well................H
weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 26 13:09:52 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: all <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Web site update and shameless promo
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 15:32:21 -0500
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Hi everyone-

First, Happy Thanksgiving to all!

Second, Albert just updated our
IGGA web site and did the most
absolutely stunning and glorious
job of it!!  There are five new photos
included the infamous Feng Shui
window and Michael's "Young Arthur"
window from our Last Enchantment
show last summer.  And, one of
my favorite sandblasts, though we
don't promote alot of that anymore...
but, it's an awfully nice piece using
a very time-consuming airbrush
technique.  =


Hope you visit and promise you'll email
Albert to tell him what a fabulous job
he did!  Sorry for the shameless promotion,
but I think the man is pretty darn good
at his work!

http://www.igga.org/

... then click on member sites... then Greer Gallery
& Studios, or.....

http://www.igga.org/greer/  =


Thanks all!

Best,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 26 16:13:33 1998
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Subject: Greer web site
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 18:07:53 EST
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Hi Dani and Micheal,
I love the new web site that Albert came up with for you!! Absolutely Great
work , my son especially liked the "Ram". Great job Albert, Excellent!!
Beveler4 (Stan)
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 26 18:17:59 1998
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To: Paula Smith-Lane <"pmsl@epix.net"@epix.net>
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Subject: Adrienne's Garden
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 20:43:07 -0500
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Thank you, for a beautiful and moving experience, sharing the beautiful
windows, and poem.

Perfect reminder of all we have to be thankful for on this Thanksgiving
day.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 26 19:20:18 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Wow!
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 21:27:27 -0500
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>Hi Everybody-
>
>Gosh, I'm just thrilled spitless!
>Albert just updated our IGGA web
>page and did a simply marvelous
>job!  Go see!  I think we're going to
>have to pay that man to do a real
>on-line portfolio.
>
>http://www.igga.org/greer/
>
Oh Wow! Not only are your windows just beautiful, Albert did a super job. 
Why is that not an on-line portfolio? Looks like one to me!

I particularly liked the O God Show Me window - it's spectacular. The 
Feng Shui window is lovely too, looks like it belongs in a church. And 
the Young Arthur - well, they're all just great. Thanks Dani for pointing 
us in your direction. Thanks Albert for being such a great webmeister.

Suzanne

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From owner-glass Thu Nov 26 20:20:07 1998
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From: byronw@eatumup.com (Byron Wells)
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: The Glass Eye new version
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 21:45:50 -0600
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Hmmm.... Last time I emailed Mr. Wilk he had told me December would be the
time for the new update.. Oh well it will still be worth the wait...

Byron...
Wells Glassworks

-----Original Message-----
From: Karen K. <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: Intrastar List <glass@intrastar.net>; Bungi List <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: The Glass Eye new version


>
>Forwarding reply from Dragonfly about "The Glass Eye" software.
>
>>Dear Karen:
>>
>>> I've heard your going to have an updated version of the Glass Eye out in
>>Dec.  Is this true?
>>
>>No, I'm sorry to say it's not true. Our next version will be out no
earlier
>>than April 1999. The upgrade price at that time will be around $40, so it
>>might be in your interest to purchase a copy now so you can use it between
>>now and then.
>>
>>-Michael Wilk
>> wilk@dfly.com
>>
>
>----
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 26 20:42:15 1998
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From: Sue Prullage <stepsue@ezl.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: please unscribe for awhile, sorry.
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 22:54:57 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov26.165457.0>
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From owner-glass Thu Nov 26 22:23:35 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Wow!
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 23:56:37 -0600
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Wow is right....geez oh pete...pretty humbling to my cut up fingers....
just amazingly beautiful.

Tulsa  Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 27 04:30:27 1998
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X-Path: worldnet.att.net!vlg
From: "Vic" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: "Dani Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Wow! You call this work a "Wow"
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 07:11:36 -0500
Message-ID: <19981127120733.FATZ25596@vic>
Precedence: bulk

Beautiful, splendid, magnificent, awe inspiring, vibrant, exquisite,
stupefying, etc. maybe!  But "wow"?  Wow, you can say maybe three times
before some one listening thinks your nuts.  

By saying the other words, they will think you know a little something
about this "stuff".  

It has been works like these that have drawn me to this hobby!  I will
never have the talent, time, or dedication necessary to achieve this level
of sophistication.  However, by knowing even a little of the steps and work
involved in a glass project, I have come to appreciate art like yours even
more. This work is way up there with any of the great ones, whose
contributions, I have been lucky enough to see and admire.

WOW!!!

Ciao

Vic LaGreca



----------
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Lee Boe <leestat7@home.com>
Cc: Carol <ctombro@InfoAve.Net>; Jim Kelly <gcanvas@compuserve.com>; Vic
LaGreca <vlg@worldnet.att.net>; Linda Letscher <andor@fair.net>; Maureen
<Mosfunland@aol.com>; pj <artglass@waterw.com>; Reusche & Co.
<reuscheco@aol.com>; Elizabeth and Sam <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>; Suzanne
<suzy@ComCAT.COM>; Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>; Carol Swann
<seaspray@mail.island.net>; Elisabeth & Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>;
Christie A. Wood <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
Subject: Wow!
Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 4:04 PM

Hi Everybody-

Gosh, I'm just thrilled spitless!
Albert just updated our IGGA web
page and did a simply marvelous
job!  Go see!  I think we're going to
have to pay that man to do a real
on-line portfolio.

http://www.igga.org/greer/

Hope you're all well, and that everyone
on this side of the pond is having a  good
holiday.

Love to all,

Dani
----------

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From owner-glass Fri Nov 27 05:36:40 1998
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From: "Vic" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: "Howard" <weaver51@teleport.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: classes, PLEASE re-post data, MELTDOWN
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 07:51:08 -0500
Message-ID: <19981127125917.FGTG25596@vic>
Precedence: bulk

> > To do this right (and maintain my reputation) I need a lot of
information from all tentative victims.
> > 
> 
> > Experience (yours):   
> 

1 1/2 years made, - 1 mission style 16x10x6.5 lamp, duplicate wall sconce a
few stained glass panels and other "things", some fusing (have kiln), and
much sand carving/blasting (have all equipment), took Norm Dobbins seminar.
 

I have civil engineering, construction and development background.
 
> > Panel or dome lamp (panel lamp in machine smooth both sides glass)
> 

Prefer dome but will do whatever.
 
> > Odyssey or Worden (my preference Odyssey, but not mandatory)
 
Willing to purchase either or both.  Do you sell them?  Else I can buy
locally.

> > Equipment ( Morton jig, or???) assume you have the basics
> 

I Have complete Morton system already. Also have full workshop to build any
jigs necessary.

I have all the basics for glass.
 
> > depth of pocket (for QUALITY glass) MAJOR waste (IMHO) to do a
"tiffany" in armstrong, spectrum, and other machine type glass.
> 

I agree.  Cost is not a factor.
 
> >                            lamp forms and other stuff
 
I am willing to buy what ever I need.
 
> > time frame ( may take many moths) and your frustration and tenacity
levels.
> 

I can devote the time and control my temper.  Tenacity is my long suit.
 
> > 
> > Just a few thing I need as I cannot observe you in a "hands on class"
> > 
> > later, H
> > 
> 
Ciao

Vic LaGreca, SIOR, CCIM
Vice President
Feist & Feist Realty Corp.


----------
> From: Howard <weaver51@teleport.com>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: classes, PLEASE re-post data, MELTDOWN
> Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 1:45 PM
> 
> 
> Happy 'T/DAY!
> 
> I had a meltdown (and with my VERY limited skills with the computer) and
all
> my e-mail stuff is GONE! I did however mangage to retain my address book,
> but all correspondence is gone. I am asking all potential students to
> re-post with experience, desire as to dome or panel lamp and so on.
> 
> I am gradually coming up with a "teaching format" and we can plan on
getting
> into this after the IMPENDING holidays. Mid January or so.
> 
> I wish my computer skills were on a par with my glass skills.
> 
> be well................H
> weaver51@teleport.com
> http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 27 05:58:17 1998
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X-Path: epix.net!"pmsl@epix.net"
From: Paula Smith-Lane <"pmsl@epix.net"@epix.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Just awesome.
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 07:32:10 -0500
Message-ID: <199811271236.HAA21861@lima.epix.net>
Organization: Prefered Customer
Precedence: bulk

Hi Dani,
 What can I say. They are awesome. I like the feng shui interpretation.
I have been working on the feng shui BA-GUA in the Glass Eye. Having
some problems, however. Not quite right yet. The sandblast is wonderful,
as are all the others.
Paula

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From owner-glass Fri Nov 27 06:07:30 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!jroey
From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Web site update and shameless promo
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 21:35:16 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov26.163516.0>
References: <<1998Nov26.103221.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Dani,


Beautiful!  Great job, Albert!

Jerri


On Thu, 26 Nov 1998 15:32:21 -0500 Dani Greer
<GreerStudios@compuserve.com> writes:
>Hi everyone-
>

>http://www.igga.org/
>
>... then click on member sites... then Greer Gallery
>& Studios, or.....
>
>http://www.igga.org/greer/  =
>
>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 27 07:40:32 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Reinforcement Question
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 10:10:17 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov27.51017.0>
Precedence: bulk

Message text written by "Charles Spitzer"
>eh? it is 12 inches high by 5.5 feet wide. how can it be top heavy? i
don't
think, especially since it'll be in a framed enclosure, that it needs
reinforcing at all.<

Top heavy because Suzy said the design was grapes & leaves
in a trellis, with all the design work being in the top portion, with
just background in the lower portion.  I believe in reinforcing
to help during transportation to the site.  I've had 2 sidelights crack
on me during transportation, and now put in reinforcement =

whenever any dimension is over 12 inches in any direction.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 27 08:09:59 1998
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From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Web site update and shameless promo
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 07:38:39 -0800 (PST)
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Dani,
Wow is a good word,...Greer Studio work has always been MOST INCREDIBLY
BEAUITUL!!
And truely an inspiration to see.
I quickly opened to the site before my *first* coffee, as I couldn't wait to
view the new work.
You guys are Most definitely true masters of the art.
I do so much the stained glass, glass painting and sandblasting.
And never in my mind would I think of it as a *shameless promo*.
Thanks so much for your sharing.
Cindy
PS...and cheers to Albert, for his great expertise!
PPS...Dani...if you guys ever need an LITTLE apprentice please let me know!!!

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From owner-glass Fri Nov 27 08:43:39 1998
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From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
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Subject: Web site update and oops
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 07:46:58 -0800 (PST)
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>
>
>>>I do so much *LOVE* the stained glass, glass painting and sandblasting.<<<

> Oops...I forgot the best word...now where's the coffee!?
Cindy:)
Love your work Dani!

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From owner-glass Fri Nov 27 11:17:42 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
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Subject: Greer web site
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:44:14 -0500
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---------- Forwarded Message ----------

From:	INTERNET:Beveler4@aol.com, INTERNET:Beveler4@aol.com
TO:	all, INTERNET:glass@bungi.com
DATE:	11/26/98 7:16 PM

RE:	Greer web site

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Subject: Greer web site
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 18:07:53 EST
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***********
Albert - I love the way you slid in that "invoice in the mail" part,
you devil!  ;-)  Dani
***********
Hi Dani and Micheal,
I love the new web site that Albert came up with for you!! Absolutely Gre=
at
work , my son especially liked the "Ram". Great job Albert, Excellent!!
Beveler4 (Stan)
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 27 12:19:01 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: all <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Holy Wow!
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 15:01:13 -0500
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Gosh, you guys, when I posted =

the Wow message, I meant Wow
to Albert's great web meistering!
But, gosh, all your nice compliments
about our work feels pretty good, too.
Thank you.  You guys are swell.
What a nice way to start the day.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 27 12:48:20 1998
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X-Path: email.msn.com!crzylynna
From: "Lynn Alchin" <crzylynna@email.msn.com>
To: "Fellow Artists/Craftsmen" <Glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Thanks!!
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:14:53 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Nov27.61453.0>
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Hi All;
For those of you that responded to my question regarding what Ever it
was that I did wrong worth my lead pattern the other day...
THANKS!
Although I did deduct the 1/8" for "slop", I neglected to add the
measurement back onto the edge of the pattern for the "lip", or channel
of the zinc frame.
So, it's true... I'm re-cutting all the border pieces & making them
1/16" larger. ( Isn't it lovely to re-cut?!?! Especially when it's all
your fault?)
!@#*(* !!
Hope everyone had a good Turkey day yesterday?

Lynn in AZ.




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From owner-glass Fri Nov 27 14:22:36 1998
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X-Path: waterw.com!artglass
From: "pj friend" <artglass@waterw.com>
To: "Dani Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>, "all" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Holy Wow!
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 16:10:42 -0500
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Hi Dani,

Well it is always refreshing to view some real noteworthy work.
And Albert's simplistic approach to web sites really shows that you don't
need all those bells and whistles we have come to be all to familiar with on
the internet.

My applause to the both of you.

my best,
pj
www.waterw.com/~artglass

-----Original Message-----
From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: all <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Friday, November 27, 1998 3:47 PM
Subject: Holy Wow!


>Gosh, you guys, when I posted =
>
>the Wow message, I meant Wow
>to Albert's great web meistering!
>But, gosh, all your nice compliments
>about our work feels pretty good, too.
>Thank you.  You guys are swell.
>What a nice way to start the day.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Dani Greer
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Fri Nov 27 16:24:05 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!tifstyorig
From: tifstyorig@juno.com (Diane W Manchester)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Bug Bomb & Glass Supplies
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 18:08:30 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov27.13830.0>
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My studio is currently in the garage and I plan to bug bomb the place to
kill any unwanted bugs.  Has anyone ever "bombed" their work studio?  If
so, has anyone ever run into a problem with the bug bomb stuff ruining
any of their supplies?  Please advise.....Thanks!

Diane Manchester
Tiffany Styled Originals
Carthage, NC 
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 27 18:28:16 1998
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: glasseye
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 17:58:53 -0600
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Hi folks..
	I recently borrowed a friends digital camera, so have quite a few  jpeg
files which I would like to use in designing.  Also I bought glasseye, but
the CD hasn't wended it's way down to Costa Rica yet..... so till then I
have the demo version.
	Question:  Can I import these files, and if so how?  The Demo version, at
least, doesn't seem to be able to do this.  Thanks.  Meg
RICHARD AND MEG LAVAL
Apdo 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA

PHONE 645-5052 or 645-5419
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 27 19:30:05 1998
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From: "Vic" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: "Dani Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Holy Wow!
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 21:28:33 -0500
Message-ID: <19981128024654.LJI21658@vic>
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My apologies to Albert for over looking his great work.

A tribute to his business acumen and talent is that he doesn't up-stage the
art. 

Albert, here's a big WOW to your professionalism and web production style.

Ciao

Vic


----------
> From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
> To: all <glass@bungi.com>
> Subject: Holy Wow!
> Date: Friday, November 27, 1998 3:01 PM
> 
> Gosh, you guys, when I posted =
> 
> the Wow message, I meant Wow
> to Albert's great web meistering!
> But, gosh, all your nice compliments
> about our work feels pretty good, too.
> Thank you.  You guys are swell.
> What a nice way to start the day.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Dani Greer
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 27 20:06:55 1998
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From: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Bug Bomb & Glass Supplies
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 21:55:16 -0500
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Hi Diane-

Our studio just *looks like a bomb
went off in it!  Does that count?? ;-)

Best,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Fri Nov 27 22:06:50 1998
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From: Steve Wernecke <wernecke@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: glasseye
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 20:49:34 -0800
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981127204934.00dba9a0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
References: <<3.0.5.32.19981127175853.007d73f0@sol.racsa.co.cr>>
Precedence: bulk

At 05:58 PM 11/27/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Hi folks..
>	I recently borrowed a friends digital camera, so have quite a few  jpeg
>files which I would like to use in designing.  Also I bought glasseye, but
>the CD hasn't wended it's way down to Costa Rica yet..... so till then I
>have the demo version.
>	Question:  Can I import these files, and if so how?  The Demo version, at
>least, doesn't seem to be able to do this.  Thanks.  Meg
>RICHARD AND MEG LAVAL
>Apdo 24-5655
>Monteverde
>COSTA RICA
>
>PHONE 645-5052 or 645-5419
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>

The current version of Glass Eye can only read .bmp and .dib files so
you'll need to convert your jpeg images to one of those formats.  Chances
are pretty good that whatever program you use to view .jpg files will let
you save the picture as a .bmp file.  If you are using Windows NT, the
Imaging accessory that comes with the operating system can perform this
conversion, and there's probably a similar accessory in Windows 95/98.  (If
not, there are plenty of downloadable image conversion programs on the
Internet.)   Once you've created a .bmp file, use the Add Background
command in Glass Eye's File menu to read the file.

Steve
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 28 00:18:38 1998
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From: Dinosaur Bob <shyguy@vdot.net>
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Subject: Re: Adrienne's Garden
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 02:03:58 -0500
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Organization: Cox's Mower Service
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--------------95D8A0172F4B12E4E5C17B84
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 I hate to be a grump at this time of year, especially with the subject
presented, but can you PLEASE REFRAIN from sending 150+K atachments to a
 mailing list. This thing has given my PC a migraine, and took a number
                of attempts to wnload and get rid of  can
  If you have a web page you want people to see, post THE URL, and lert
                   those capable view it that way TIA

--------------95D8A0172F4B12E4E5C17B84
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
<BODY TEXT="#000000" BGCOLOR="#34A78D" LINK="#911A54" VLINK="#000093" ALINK="#000000" <BODY>

<CENTER>I hate to be a grump at this time of year, especially with the
subject presented, but can you PLEASE REFRAIN from sending 150+K atachments
to a mailing list. This thing has given my PC a migraine, and took a number
of attempts to wnload and get rid of&nbsp; can</CENTER>

<CENTER>If you have a web page you want people to see, post THE URL, and
lert those capable view it that way TIA</CENTER>

</BODY>
</HTML>

--------------95D8A0172F4B12E4E5C17B84--

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 28 00:34:54 1998
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From: Dinosaur Bob <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: Paula Smith-Lane <"pmsl@epix.net"@epix.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------0A628529FEB9FC32AC686A02"
Subject: Re: Andrienne's Garden
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 02:09:13 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov27.21913.0>
References: <<199811261434.JAA23433@lima.epix.net>>
Organization: Cox's Mower Service
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--------------0A628529FEB9FC32AC686A02
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

                    Geez, you had to send this twice?

--------------0A628529FEB9FC32AC686A02
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
<BODY TEXT="#000000" BGCOLOR="#34A78D" LINK="#911A54" VLINK="#000093" ALINK="#000000" <BODY>

<CENTER>Geez, you had to send this twice?</CENTER>

</BODY>
</HTML>

--------------0A628529FEB9FC32AC686A02--

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 28 07:30:26 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  Bug Bomb & Glass Supplies
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 09:56:13 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov28.145613.0>
Precedence: bulk


In a message dated 11/27/98 7:55:21 PM, tifstyorig@juno.com wrote:

>My studio is currently in the garage and I plan to bug bomb the place to
>kill any unwanted bugs.  Has anyone ever "bombed" their work studio?  If
>so, has anyone ever run into a problem with the bug bomb stuff ruining
>any of their supplies?

What are you using, that "set it up, run like hell, lock all the doors, and
don't come back for 4 hours" stuff? (It used to be marketed under the name
"FourGone.") I've used it a couple of times when I've moved and the new digs
were occupied by large numbers of crawling beasties left over from the
previous slobs.

It shouldn't hurt your supplies - after all, it is made to be used indoors,
and if I remember right, the only real caution before spraying is to remove
anything from the area that might come into contact with food, pets, or kids
(a good idea anyway when you're using any bug spray).

The biggest concern, I think, is how much of the spray residue you're going to
come into contact with as a result of "bombing." It probably wouldn't be a bad
idea to take your chemicals out of there, just so they don't get covered with
spray residue that will get all over your hands later. The "fallout" will get
on your glass too, and leave a slight oily film. It's up to you whether you
really, *really* want to move all your glass out of there.......


Sparks
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 28 08:36:15 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Diane W Manchester <tifstyorig@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Bug Bomb & Glass Supplies
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 10:32:10 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov28.53210.0>
References: <<1998Nov27.13830.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Diane W Manchester wrote:
> 
> My studio is currently in the garage and I plan to bug bomb the place to
> kill any unwanted bugs.  Has anyone ever "bombed" their work studio?  If
> so, has anyone ever run into a problem with the bug bomb stuff ruining
> any of their supplies?  Please advise.....Thanks!
> 
> Diane Manchester
> Tiffany Styled Originals
> Carthage, NC
> ___________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
> ----
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i doubt it will hurt anything important. though i would remove pattern
books, foil, and any kinds of tape. and it will probably coat all your
glass with poison, so here's going to have to be some clean up
afterwards.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 28 09:38:44 1998
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X-Path: dircon.co.uk!bshep
From: "Brian Shepherd" <bshep@dircon.co.uk>
To: "Dinosaur Bob" <shyguy@vdot.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Re: Adrienne's Garden
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 16:41:22 -0000
Message-ID: <1998Nov28.164122.0>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BE1AED.EE6F5E80
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Bob!

What I want to know is how do you send a green email?

Brian
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Dinosaur Bob <shyguy@vdot.net>
    To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
    Date: 28 November 1998 08:21
    Subject: Re: Adrienne's Garden
   =20
   =20
    I hate to be a grump at this time of year, especially with the =
subject presented, but can you PLEASE REFRAIN from sending 150+K =
atachments to a mailing list. This thing has given my PC a migraine, and =
took a number of attempts to wnload and get rid of  can
    If you have a web page you want people to see, post THE URL, and =
lert those capable view it that way TIA

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BE1AED.EE6F5E80
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY aLink=3D#000000 bgColor=3D#34a78d link=3D#911a54 text=3D#000000 =
vLink=3D#000093=20
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Bob!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>What I want to know is how do you =
send a green=20
email?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Brian</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
    </B>Dinosaur Bob &lt;<A=20
    href=3D"mailto:shyguy@vdot.net">shyguy@vdot.net</A>&gt;<BR><B>To: =
</B><A=20
    href=3D"mailto:glass@bungi.com">glass@bungi.com</A> &lt;<A=20
    href=3D"mailto:glass@bungi.com">glass@bungi.com</A>&gt;<BR><B>Date: =
</B>28=20
    November 1998 08:21<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: Adrienne's=20
    Garden<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
    <CENTER>I hate to be a grump at this time of year, especially with =
the=20
    subject presented, but can you PLEASE REFRAIN from sending 150+K =
atachments=20
    to a mailing list. This thing has given my PC a migraine, and took a =
number=20
    of attempts to wnload and get rid of&nbsp; can</CENTER>
    <CENTER>If you have a web page you want people to see, post THE URL, =
and=20
    lert those capable view it that way =
TIA</CENTER></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BE1AED.EE6F5E80--

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 28 10:39:04 1998
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X-Path: fair.net!andor
From: "Linda Letscher" <andor@fair.net>
To: "bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Inventory - QuickBooks
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 13:09:50 -0500
Message-ID: <199811281808.NAA19710@smtp.america.net>
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I am thinking of firing up QuickBooks to run my itsy bitsy garage studio.  I
really would like to try it from the standpoint of keeping track of my glass
inventory.  I love glass and buy it when I see something I want.  So I was
thinking if I put in the inventory on it, I would have a ready list of what
I have by color, mfg. and price per sqaure foot if needed for pricing or so
I know what I have color wise...

I have always just foraged through the glass I have when looking for color
or whatever and need to get more organized as I do more stuff.

Anyone out there using QuickBooks?....  I just happen to have QuickBooks but
have not even installed it as I really didn't have the inclination to get it
up and runing.  Today I had this brilliant idea about inventory..

Your input welcome.
Thanks,
Eljay (Linda Jo)


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From owner-glass Sat Nov 28 13:40:35 1998
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From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Greer Works of Art
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 15:17:05 -0500
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Just now catching up after the huge pig out sessions Thurs & Fri (had too
many leftovers).  Absolutely Beautiful is all I can say Dani.
Karen ...typing with ring finger in a split, put new glass purchase away in
a hurry..oops....or is that ouch!!

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 28 13:59:08 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: End of an Era?
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 1980 06:10:00 -0600
Message-ID: <1980Jan4.0100.0>
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Elizabeth is too quiet, I think she is plotting my demise.

I am completely out of bios.

If I don't receive some quickly the Marquee de Sade hound will have me for
his purposes, and it won't be a pretty sight. Taffeta all over from the
TuTu, gnomons in shreds, bald head on a spike, unhairy legs in all
directions of the compass, makes you cringe just thinking about it.

Please have pity on a poor ex-Prima Ballerina. Send me some bios quick.

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 28 17:48:08 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>, "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Greer Works of Art
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 1980 10:02:51 -0600
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No Karen its "Oh Frit!"

LOL


-----Original Message-----
From: Karen K. <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: Bungi List <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Saturday, November 28, 1998 3:57 PM
Subject: Re: Greer Works of Art


>Just now catching up after the huge pig out sessions Thurs & Fri (had too
>many leftovers).  Absolutely Beautiful is all I can say Dani.
>Karen ...typing with ring finger in a split, put new glass purchase away in
>a hurry..oops....or is that ouch!!
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 28 18:53:43 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Bungi List <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Mike's Stained Glass ----Updated
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 20:51:40 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov28.155140.0>
References: <<1998Nov28.10175.0>>
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i just updated my page, 37 new links, a general faq on foiling, and a
preview of Sky City.

Mike's Stained Glass
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/

---Mike Savad


-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
11-28-98 New Pages Added: 37 New Links in 5 Categories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award, and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 28 19:59:24 1998
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X-Path: eatumup.com!byronw
From: byronw@eatumup.com (Byron Wells)
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Inventory - QuickBooks
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 20:42:56 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov28.144256.0>
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I bought Quick books last year and never really made time to learn it I
guess...Looks like a nice prg but as with all things you have to have time
to learn how to operate them... I quickly went back to my old cardboard box
method of record keeping...I'm a one person studio so for now that works
fine...I've always just kept 10-20 sheets of the glasses I use the most so I
dont really worry about inventory...

Byron...
Wells Glassworks

-----Original Message-----
From: Linda Letscher <andor@fair.net>
To: bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Saturday, November 28, 1998 4:48 AM
Subject: Inventory - QuickBooks


>I am thinking of firing up QuickBooks to run my itsy bitsy garage studio.
I
>really would like to try it from the standpoint of keeping track of my
glass
>inventory.  I love glass and buy it when I see something I want.  So I was
>thinking if I put in the inventory on it, I would have a ready list of what
>I have by color, mfg. and price per sqaure foot if needed for pricing or so
>I know what I have color wise...
>
>I have always just foraged through the glass I have when looking for color
>or whatever and need to get more organized as I do more stuff.
>
>Anyone out there using QuickBooks?....  I just happen to have QuickBooks
but
>have not even installed it as I really didn't have the inclination to get
it
>up and runing.  Today I had this brilliant idea about inventory..
>
>Your input welcome.
>Thanks,
>Eljay (Linda Jo)
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 28 20:48:58 1998
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: Dani Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Bug Bomb & Glass Supplies
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 22:30:20 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov28.173020.0>
References: <<1998Nov27.165516.0>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi Dani,

Glad I'm not the only one then, mine always looks like a tornado hit,
and now it is spilling out into the rest of the house.  Plus, I haven't
seen the top of my desk in ages, (like 'Shoe' in the comic strip).

Lee Boe

Dani Greer wrote:
> 
> Hi Diane-
> 
> Our studio just *looks like a bomb
> went off in it!  Does that count?? ;-)
> 
> Best,
> 
> Dani Greer
> ----
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From owner-glass Sat Nov 28 21:05:38 1998
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From: Elie.Nasser@t-online.de (elie)
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: glass quilt
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 04:35:35 +0100
Message-ID: <1998Nov29.53535.0>
Precedence: bulk

hi Ann,

sorry it took me some time to answer your newsletter.
Your idea in making friends this way is a lovely one and i
wish you good luck for a big success to make your glass
quilt look good in the end.
If you wish to get a piece from me , let me know.


sincerely,
elie nasser
rosmarinstrasse 12 e
40235 Duesseldorf
Germany

www.cartoonage.de

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From owner-glass Sat Nov 28 23:15:53 1998
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From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>, "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Greer Works of Art
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 01:11:12 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov28.201112.0>
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>No Karen its "Oh Frit!"
>
>LOL
>
Yeah Pat, that works for me too.  Made me think of the first show I did
several years ago.  It was 11:30 the night before and I was super glueing a
few last minute pieces together (earrings--non glass) and blowing on them.
I started to spin the earring post in between my fingers while blowing on it
to dry faster and sure enough a Speck- not a drop-but just a Speck of glue
flew into my right eye.  Holy Frit!!!  Did that sting, couldn't even see out
of my other eye cause the burning was soooo bad it made both eyes tear
constantly.  Luckily my friend was staying over to help with the show as my
husband was out of town, my kids were 4 & 11, a little too young to be
driving me to the hospital 10 miles away.  The local hospital emergency room
was very crowded that night, I stood up against the wall with a wet towel
covering the eye to keep any trace of light out not that it helped any.
After waiting an hour we called the next towns' hospital to see how busy
they were, ended up going there instead, was attended to promptly.  It was
after 2 a.m. by the time we got back to my house, up at 5,  did my first
show sporting a huge white eye bandage....Ugh!!
Karen...who's saving my other super glue fiasco story for another time.
>
>>Just now catching up after the huge pig out sessions Thurs & Fri (had too
>>many leftovers).  Absolutely Beautiful is all I can say Dani.
>>Karen ...typing with ring finger in a split, put new glass purchase away
in
>>a hurry..oops....or is that ouch!!
>>
>>----
>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>
>
>----
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Sun Nov 29 07:46:49 1998
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X-Path: netcom.ca!shmilly
From: bill <shmilly@netcom.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: "cutters mate"
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 09:23:54 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19981129092354.007a0a40@popd.netcom.ca>
Precedence: bulk

good day all!!..........i am interested to know if anyone out there has any
information about the "Cutters Mate" glass cutter.......i suffer from
chronic upper back pain (3 years)and was wondering if this was an "easier"
system for cutting glass for people such as myself.......i am still a
newbie at stained glass (1 1/2 months) and am finding that cutting (as well
as foiling) my pieces is really taking it's toll on my back by greatly
increasing my pain level....were i healthier, i would not be looking for
alternative methods to glass cutting and would hone my skills by
practice......unfortunately this is not the case and i need to find other
ways to help me in my pursuit to do stained glass that is a little less
painful......even yesterday i was attempting to to a long slightly wavy cut
and was not able to keep the proper pressure and control to complete the
score, and when i went to break the cut, it just followed a path of it's
own.....time and again this has caused great frustration and setbacks due
to my improper preparation of the glass pieces for foiling or
leading.....the pieces i have done so far (1 leaded panel, 1 copper-foiled
panel) have turned out quite good, but not without great pains..........in
order for me to continue in this artform i must seek alternatives or risk
giving up.......it may be that the "Cutters Mate" will have it's
limitations, but i am interested to know what it "can" and "can't" do even
if it limits me to the more simpler designs.........any information you can
pass my way would be greatly appreciated.......thanks again........Bill 

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From owner-glass Sun Nov 29 09:58:58 1998
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From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Fw: looking for input about 'Cutters Mate'
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:33:40 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov29.53340.0>
Precedence: bulk

Subject: Re: looking for input about 'Cutters Mate'


>Good morning Bill,  Have you considered the Score One cutter by Inland?
It's not much of a
>strip cutter but is excellent as a piece cutter.  I wouldn't be without
>mine.  I had surgery on both wrists for carpal tunnel and don't know if I
>could do glass work on a regular basis without it.  And the cost is only
>$60.  Check it out in the Delphi catalog on page 143.  You turn the wheel
>with your right hand as you feed the glass thru with your left hand,
turning
>the glass  to follow the marker lines.  Has adjustments for thicker glass
or
>hard to cut glass, applies a consisant pressure to the glass when scoring.
>I am able to cut while sitting down,  and I don't waste near as much glass
>as I did when using only a pistol grip cutter.  I'd consider this before
>spending $200 on something.
>Karen K.


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From owner-glass Sun Nov 29 09:59:49 1998
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From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Fw: "cutters mate"too
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:37:16 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov29.53716.0>
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-----Original Message-----
From: SusieHUs@aol.com <SusieHUs@aol.com>
To: glass@intrastar.net <glass@intrastar.net>
Date: Sunday, November 29, 1998 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: "cutters mate"


>In a message dated 98-11-29 09:39:48 EST, you write:
>
><< I have only "played" with it at my
> local retail store, but have found it to be much less demanding regarding
the
> amount of pressure a person needs to apply when cutting. >>
>
>Same here.  I have 2 spinal injuries that cause a lot of pain too and I was
>looking at it for that reason.  It cut the glass smooth as butter with no
real
>physical effort beyond guiding the handpiece.  The weight of that piece
>applies the proper amount of pressure and it turns easily.  The only reason
I
>don't have one is the price.  But you may want to do as Lu Ann suggests and
>play with one at a glass store yourself.  We can explain it over and over
here
>but there's nothing quite like trying this one and seeing that the glass
>breaks perfectly with it.  I really was surprised that it worked as well as
it
>did.
>
>Susie
>

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From owner-glass Sun Nov 29 10:16:44 1998
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From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Fw: "cutters mate"
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:36:16 -0500
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Subject: Re: "cutters mate"


>Hi Bill!
>
>The Cutter's Mate might be of help to you.  I have only "played" with it at
my
>local retail store, but have found it to be much less demanding regarding
the
>amount of pressure a person needs to apply when cutting.  The handle/cutter
>part of it is somewhat heavy in and of itself.  Before you put out the
money
>on it you might want to see if your local retail store, or at least one
within
>a few hours, would have one they use for demonstration purposes.  Because
of
>the expense of it I would hate to think they would expect you to buy it
before
>you can "play" with it a few times, but then that's just my opinion.
>
>Lu Ann
>

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From owner-glass Sun Nov 29 10:17:15 1998
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From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: "Intrastar List" <glass@intrastar.net>, "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: "cutters mate"
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:50:22 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov29.55022.0>
Precedence: bulk

My experience with the Score One is that the strip attachment isn't very
accurate, but the cutter itself is excellent.  You can buy just the cutter
for $60 and the strip attachment is $27 if you want that too (Delphi
prices).  It wouldn't be very practical for real large pieces for big panels
(like church & office building windows).  I've been using it a couple of
years and think it's faster for me to use it than a pistol grip and more
accurate.
Karen

>Bill,
>
>I have one of Inlands Score 1's that I let people demo when they feel
>they need some help.  There is a geriatric center near my shop and I've
>sold a few of the Score 1's to some of the residents there.  Many of
>them have lost hand strength and are happy to find something lets them
>participate, so the Score 1 has been blessing for them.  It's slow, and
>has a 9 inch throat that limits the size of piece that you can run
>through it, but it works.  It has a circle and strip cutting attachment
>and sells for about $100.
>
>Unfortunately, i don't have any experience with the Cutters Mate.  It's
>going to sell for around $250, and after looking it up in one of my
>catalogues, there is no mention of warranty, so be sure to look into
>that.  One thing I always look for when considering a product that i'm
>not familiar with are things like component replacement kits.  For
>example, glass saws have teflon block or rubber groment replacement kits
>.... so that tells you to expect something to wear out on occassion.  I
>don't see anything like that listed for the Cutters Mate, so that could
>be a good thing.  But, again, something in that price range should have
>some kind of warranty.
>
>Good luck, and let us know how it works out!
>
>Mike
>
>
>bill wrote:
>>
>> good day all!!..........i am interested to know if anyone out there has
any
>> information about the "Cutters Mate" glass cutter.......i suffer from
>> chronic upper back pain (3 years)and was wondering if this was an
"easier"
>> system for cutting glass for people such as myself.......i am still a
>> newbie at stained glass (1 1/2 months) and am finding that cutting (as
well
>> as foiling) my pieces is really taking it's toll on my back by greatly
>> increasing my pain level....were i healthier, i would not be looking for
>> alternative methods to glass cutting and would hone my skills by
>> practice......unfortunately this is not the case and i need to find other
>> ways to help me in my pursuit to do stained glass that is a little less
>> painful......even yesterday i was attempting to to a long slightly wavy
cut
>> and was not able to keep the proper pressure and control to complete the
>> score, and when i went to break the cut, it just followed a path of it's
>> own.....time and again this has caused great frustration and setbacks due
>> to my improper preparation of the glass pieces for foiling or
>> leading.....the pieces i have done so far (1 leaded panel, 1
copper-foiled
>> panel) have turned out quite good, but not without great
pains..........in
>> order for me to continue in this artform i must seek alternatives or risk
>> giving up.......it may be that the "Cutters Mate" will have it's
>> limitations, but i am interested to know what it "can" and "can't" do
even
>> if it limits me to the more simpler designs.........any information you
can
>> pass my way would be greatly appreciated.......thanks again........Bill
>

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From owner-glass Sun Nov 29 11:27:23 1998
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X-Path: banet.net!gmanning
From: Goldpaws <gmanning@banet.net>
To: glass@intrastar.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: "cutters mate"
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:27:00 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov29.5270.0>
References: <<3.0.6.32.19981129092354.007a0a40@popd.netcom.ca>>
Precedence: bulk

I have had my Cutter's Mate for over a year and LOVE it. 
It makes a perfect score without any effort. You will save money on
glass. I did.
Go for it!
Goldpaws

bill wrote:
> 
> good day all!!..........i am interested to know if anyone out there has any
> information about the "Cutters Mate" glass cutter.......i suffer from
> chronic upper back pain (3 years)and was wondering if this was an "easier"
> system for cutting glass for people such as myself.......i am still a
> newbie at stained glass (1 1/2 months) and am finding that cutting (as well
> as foiling) my pieces is really taking it's toll on my back by greatly
> increasing my pain level....were i healthier, i would not be looking for
> alternative methods to glass cutting and would hone my skills by
> practice......unfortunately this is not the case and i need to find other
> ways to help me in my pursuit to do stained glass that is a little less
> painful......even yesterday i was attempting to to a long slightly wavy cut
> and was not able to keep the proper pressure and control to complete the
> score, and when i went to break the cut, it just followed a path of it's
> own.....time and again this has caused great frustration and setbacks due
> to my improper preparation of the glass pieces for foiling or
> leading.....the pieces i have done so far (1 leaded panel, 1 copper-foiled
> panel) have turned out quite good, but not without great pains..........in
> order for me to continue in this artform i must seek alternatives or risk
> giving up.......it may be that the "Cutters Mate" will have it's
> limitations, but i am interested to know what it "can" and "can't" do even
> if it limits me to the more simpler designs.........any information you can
> pass my way would be greatly appreciated.......thanks again........Bill
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 29 12:32:13 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: cutters mate
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 12:12:49 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Nov29.61249.0>
Precedence: bulk

Bill,

I see the results of the Tauras II saw that might be easier for you. It is
like a wood band saw only it has a round blade. It makes such a clean cut
you don't need to grind for foiling. Intricate (almost impossible by hand)
are relatively easy. It is small and could be used while you are sitting
down I suppose.

Foiling and burnishing the pieces are made easy with those German plastic
foilers (about $6-70) or with the Inland Foiler (about $25).

Don't know where you live or where you get you supplies. Talk to your
supplier and tell her/him about your situation. Knowing that they wouldn't
want to lose a customer they should be able to help.

How about contacting Meredith Stained Glass, I'm sure Jenna or her family
would be more than happy to accommodate you and they do sell all the
supplies. Not to let anyone out there is also Delphi, W-C, and others.
Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sun Nov 29 13:29:52 1998
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From: bill <shmilly@netcom.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Thank You All re: "Cutters Mate"
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 14:53:16 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19981129145316.007a3420@popd.netcom.ca>
Precedence: bulk

wow!!....what a response!......i would like to say thanks to all that have
responded to my query so quickly with regards to the "Cutters Mate"....i
would also like to thank those who can relate to my back situation with
their helpful hints to possibly help make my introduction to stained glass
a bit more tolerable in the "physical" sense....(i lost my marbles long
ago!!  hahahaha!)...i think this is the greatest bunch of people around and
i will not be as timid to ask questions in the future......there are a lot
of things that books don't seem to cover on the subject of stained glass
which is why i hope you don't mind me tapping into your experiences (even
though some questions may seem a little trivial to you at
times)........once again....thank-you all!......Bill

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From owner-glass Sun Nov 29 17:48:26 1998
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From: GlassLites@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: The Glass Eye - Is It Worth It??
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 18:38:05 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov29.23385.0>
Precedence: bulk

It sounds like you downloaded the GlassEye Internet Edition, not the demo
program. GlassEye offers two separate programs to download from their web
site. One (the Internet Edition) is only to sell patterns. The other is a demo
that will allow you to play around with drawing. There is a little tutorial
available also. 

My first experience was with the demo and tutorial I got off the website. With
it I was able to draw 'stuff'. The demo is limited and you can not print your
efforts. And (I think) some of the more expert 'buttons' are off. But that
demo is what convinced me that GlassEye was the one for me.

So check to see which program you downloaded.

Cheryl Lowe
GlassLites Studio
New Jersey
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 29 18:19:32 1998
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From: GlassLites@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: glasseye
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:11:49 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov30.01149.0>
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In a message dated 98-11-27 21:43:34 EST Richard & Meg Laval write:

<< 
 Hi folks..
 	I recently borrowed a friends digital camera, so have quite a few  jpeg
 files which I would like to use in designing.  Also I bought glasseye, but
 the CD hasn't wended it's way down to Costa Rica yet..... so till then I
 have the demo version.
 	Question:  Can I import these files, and if so how?  The Demo version, at
 least, doesn't seem to be able to do this.  Thanks.  Meg
 RICHARD AND MEG LAVAL >>

The demo version will not allow you to import backgrounds. You'll have to wait
for the full version to arrive. Also, you'll need to convert that picture to a
.bmp file to use it.

You'll LOVE what you can do with inporting backgrounds!

GlassLites Studio
Cheryl Lowe
New Jersey
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From owner-glass Sun Nov 29 22:19:59 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio
From: dodgestudio@juno.com
To: andor@fair.net
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: Inventory - QuickBooks
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 23:42:50 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov29.184250.0>
Precedence: bulk

Linda Jo,

If  you are planning to organize and track a whole mess of stuff,
Quickbooks is great.  The secret to getting a handle on things is in
setting up sub- items and sub-items of sub items.  A lot like the files
on your computer.  Break you glass down into categories, like cathedral
and opal for instance, then break each of these down further into colors
and textures as sub items of the colors etc.

I hope you can tell what I'm trying to say.  I know it's hard if you
haven't tried to play with it yet.

If on the other hand you are going to have just a few pieces of glass to
track don't bother with it.

Gary Dodge              Dodge Studio Designs

http://www.dodgestudio.com


>I am thinking of firing up QuickBooks to run my itsy bitsy garage 
>studio.  I
>really would like to try it from the standpoint of keeping track of my 
>glass
>inventory.  I love glass and buy it when I see something I want.  So I 
>was
>thinking if I put in the inventory on it, I would have a ready list of 
>what
>I have by color, mfg. and price per sqaure foot if needed for pricing 
>or so
>I know what I have color wise...
>
>I have always just foraged through the glass I have when looking for 
>color
>or whatever and need to get more organized as I do more stuff.
>
>Anyone out there using QuickBooks?....  I just happen to have 
>QuickBooks but
>have not even installed it as I really didn't have the inclination to 
>get it
>up and runing.  Today I had this brilliant idea about inventory..
>
>Your input welcome.
>Thanks,
>Eljay (Linda Jo)
>
>
>


___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 30 06:15:39 1998
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From: "Vic" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Removing Door panels
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 07:45:16 -0500
Message-ID: <19981130124131.JNYK22483@vic>
Precedence: bulk

We are about to contract to have an addition/conservatory put on our family
room, and replace the windows, siding and roof on the rest of our home. I
have a decision to make regarding our front entrance.  

Since the front will be done in unfinished travertine stone (it is siding
now), the existing molding on the front door and side light will have to be
replaced with brick/stone molding. There is a hand carved oak door there
now which has two rectangular wood panels in the bottom and two rectangular
wood panels with "eye brow" arches on top.  If we keep this door, which my
wife loves, I would like to replace the two top panels with leaded glass
along with the side light.  The problem is getting the panels out of the
door without destroying the "fancy" molding which will probably cost more
to have milled and replaced than purchasing an entirely new door.  The
molding is on the exterior side only as one side of the opening was formed
by routing into the door frame itself ( I hope this is clear enough). 
Also, the moldings were attached with an air hammer with 2 + inch staples,
not the easiest things to remove.

My questions:

Has anyone removed these panels and retained the existing molding?  If so,
how?

Has anyone ever used the pliable and "moldable" moldings on the market
these days? I have never worked with them and would like to know what to
expect.

If we have to replace the door, I would prefer to purchase the entire unit,
door and side light, pre-hung, with the glass openings left vacant, so I
can make the panels and have a local glassier install them in insulated
glass.   Is there a source for this type of unit I should know about?


Ciao

Vic LaGreca

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From owner-glass Mon Nov 30 06:33:24 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Lezliesart
From: Lezliesart@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Looking for advice on drilling holes in glass
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 07:17:28 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov30.121728.0>
Precedence: bulk

 I'm trying to drill tiny holes in some fused glass jewelry and having
problems. I bought a fairly cheap diamond drill set to use in my dremel,
rigged up a water drip to keep water on the drill site and proceeded to ruin
two drill bits. The first hole was fine the second fair, and by the third the
drill just skittered across the surface of the glass. I was drilling into
mostly one layer thin fusible glass so I was surprised that it didn't work.
I'm sure that more expensive drill bits are available that would probably work
a little better but before I invest I'd love to know if anyone has had any
experience with this. Am I doing something wrong? I'd hate to spend a lot of
cash on a drill bit and ruin it with the first few attempts to use it. 
 I'd appreciate any advice anyone has on the subject.
     Thanks
        Lezlie
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 30 07:24:11 1998
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From: "Vic" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Flexible brass channel
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 08:02:04 -0500
Message-ID: <19981130125743.BIPJ19597@vic>
Precedence: bulk

I would like to know how and where flexible channel is used.  Is it used in
conjunction with came or wood frame?  Or is it used alone as a method of
framing or reinforcement?  I have only seen it in "U" shape, are there
others?

TIA!

Ciao

Vic
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 30 09:28:52 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Lezliesart@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on drilling holes in glass
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:46:14 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov30.44614.0>
References: <<1998Nov30.121728.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Lezliesart@aol.com wrote:
> 
>  I'm trying to drill tiny holes in some fused glass jewelry and having
> problems. I bought a fairly cheap diamond drill set to use in my dremel,
> rigged up a water drip to keep water on the drill site and proceeded to ruin
> two drill bits. The first hole was fine the second fair, and by the third the
> drill just skittered across the surface of the glass. I was drilling into
> mostly one layer thin fusible glass so I was surprised that it didn't work.
> I'm sure that more expensive drill bits are available that would probably work
> a little better but before I invest I'd love to know if anyone has had any
> experience with this. Am I doing something wrong? I'd hate to spend a lot of
> cash on a drill bit and ruin it with the first few attempts to use it.
>  I'd appreciate any advice anyone has on the subject.
>      Thanks
>         Lezlie
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


the bit may have worn spots on the tip, and it won't cut any more. or
the glass is much harder then the others, and it needs a starting
posistion. you can't, of course, strike it with a hammer and a punch.
you'll have to brace your hand and very softly start the hole. drill it
down, back it out, drill it down, back it out, and go very slowly.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
11-28-98 New Pages Added: 37 New Links in 5 Categories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award, A Foiling FAQ, and A Look at Sky City
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 30 10:31:50 1998
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From: "Daniela Birkelbach" <dany@city-net.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: framing a round panel
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 12:15:03 -0500
Message-ID: <199811301702.MAA09979@dns.city-net.com>
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone!

I'm making a 14" diameter round copper foil panel.  Is the best way to
frame it with U Lead came?  Any other suggestions welcome!

Thanks!

Dany

Daniela Birkelbach
Software Consultant
dany@city-net.com             http://www.city-net.com/~dany
**********************************************************************
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 30 12:31:05 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  Looking for advice on drilling holes in glass
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:59:44 EST
Message-ID: <1998Nov30.185944.0>
Precedence: bulk


In a message dated 11/30/98 9:34:30 AM, Lezliesart@aol.com wrote:

>I'm trying to drill tiny holes in some fused glass jewelry and having
>problems. I bought a fairly cheap diamond drill set to use in my dremel,
>rigged up a water drip to keep water on the drill site and proceeded to ruin
>two drill bits. [...]
>I'm sure that more expensive drill bits are available that would probably
work
>a little better but before I invest I'd love to know if anyone has had any
>experience with this. [...]

First: If you're going to be doing a lot of this kind of thing, buy the best
drill bits you can get. In the long run one good bit is less expensive than 10
or 20 cheap ones.

(Same goes for saw blades, etc...... when I bought a circular saw last summer
and was trying to figure out what was the difference between the $39 special
and the $89 "pro model," my local hardware emporium guy said, "Those two
models have exactly the same motor and the same forever-and-ever warranty. Buy
the less expensive saw, throw out the blade that comes with it, and get a good
carbide-tipped blade. It will last you for years.")

Second: Invest in the Dremel "drill press" setup. There's nothing like it for
drilling lots of holes (or even a few); it gives you a steadiness you can't
get even if you have the steadiest hands in the universe. And if you have
shaky hands like I do, it just plain helps you aim in the right place. Bye-
bye, skittering!

Third: Never, EVER press too hard on any tool! Let the bit do the work. It
takes longer, but in the long run it's easier on the bit *and* the tool's
motor. (Same goes for hand saws etc. too, BTW; you'll wear out your tools a
lot faster, or even break them, trying to force them.)

MORE POWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Sparks (no pun intended)
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 30 13:45:52 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, dany@city-net.com
Subject: Framing a round panel
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:42:59, -0500
Message-ID: <199811301942.OAA12310@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>Hi everyone!

I'm making a 14" diameter round copper foil panel.  Is the best way 
to
frame it with U Lead came?  Any other suggestions welcome!

Thanks!

Dany<<

I like to use a piece of 1/2" brass U-cap. It looks good and there is 
never a problem with strength. Check to see if there is a stained 
glass store near you that has the brass and will use their came 
bender to make the circle for a nominal charge.  Unfortunately the 
brass can not be bent gracefully without the came bender. Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
Want to talk glass? Sübscribe E-mail list:  glass@intrastar.net
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 30 14:36:22 1998
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X-Path: netcom.ca!wellwood
From: "wellwood" <wellwood@netcom.ca>
To: "Daniela Birkelbach" <dany@city-net.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: framing a round panel
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:14:10 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov30.101410.0>
Precedence: bulk

I have done many of these and have nearly always framed with zipper which I
then coated with solder and coloured to match the remainder of the solder,
ie: copper or black.

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From owner-glass Mon Nov 30 14:54:35 1998
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From: Steve Hart <steve.hart@ces.uwex.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Introduction & Foiler
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:05:13 -0600
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19981130150513.0069ad70@facstaff.wisc.edu>
Precedence: bulk

Hi fellow stained glass glassers:

Let me introduce myself.  My name is Steve and I am from Wisconsin.  I took
a stained glass class about a year ago and loved it.  I really have not
done much since that time (not enough hours in the day) but I did but a lot
of pre-cut kits to work on.  I am presently replacing the clear glass in
some attic windows with stained glass and working on a panel for one of the
windows.  

I need your advice.  What kind of foiler to you use and why?

Steve
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 30 14:56:14 1998
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X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray
From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: framing a round panel
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:54:08 -0800
Message-ID: <199811301954.LAA12910@oceanus.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

>Hi everyone!
>
>I'm making a 14" diameter round copper foil panel.  Is the best way to
>frame it with U Lead came?  Any other suggestions welcome!

You can use lead U came, lead H came if you want the same width of border
while covering up less of your design, or use zinc came and a came bender.

C.

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

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From owner-glass Mon Nov 30 14:59:13 1998
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From: "Daniela Birkelbach" <dany@city-net.com>
To: "wellwood" <wellwood@netcom.ca>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: framing a round panel
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:22:07 -0500
Message-ID: <199811302009.PAA27059@dns.city-net.com>
Precedence: bulk

Please tell me what zipper is - never heard of that word - besides the
obvious...

Thank you!

Dany

Daniela Birkelbach
Software Consultant
dany@city-net.com             http://www.city-net.com/~dany
**********************************************************************
"Black holes are where God divided by zero!"
Steven Wright

----------
> From: wellwood <wellwood@netcom.ca>
> To: Daniela Birkelbach <dany@city-net.com>; glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Re: framing a round panel
> Date: Monday, November 30, 1998 3:14 PM
> 
> I have done many of these and have nearly always framed with zipper which
I
> then coated with solder and coloured to match the remainder of the
solder,
> ie: copper or black.
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 30 15:05:10 1998
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Daniela Birkelbach <dany@city-net.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: framing a round panel
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:53:33 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1998Nov30.55333.0>
References: <<199811301702.MAA09979@dns.city-net.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Daniela:  There are ready-made 14" oak frames for round panels.  You
can use U lead but I have found that unless you do have a perfect round
the lead came takes on whatever shape the panel is...including all of the
angles and uneven areas that invariably happens with copper foil panels.
PJ

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From owner-glass Mon Nov 30 15:08:59 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Framing a round panel
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 17:34:19 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov30.123419.0>
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Message text written by  BOB   DUCHESNEAU
>I like to use a piece of 1/2" brass U-cap. It looks good and there is =

never a problem with strength. Check to see if there is a stained =

glass store near you that has the brass and will use their came =

bender to make the circle for a nominal charge.  Unfortunately the =

brass can not be bent gracefully without the came bender. Bob<

Bob,

How do you attach hanging loops to the brass U-cap?

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 30 16:37:22 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Steve Hart <steve.hart@ces.uwex.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Introduction & Foiler
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 18:27:50 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov30.132750.0>
References: <<3.0.2.32.19981130150513.0069ad70@facstaff.wisc.edu>>
Precedence: bulk

Steve Hart wrote:
> 
> Hi fellow stained glass glassers:
> 
> Let me introduce myself.  My name is Steve and I am from Wisconsin.  I took
> a stained glass class about a year ago and loved it.  I really have not
> done much since that time (not enough hours in the day) but I did but a lot
> of pre-cut kits to work on.  I am presently replacing the clear glass in
> some attic windows with stained glass and working on a panel for one of the
> windows.
> 
> I need your advice.  What kind of foiler to you use and why?
> 
> Steve
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i use my fingers, because they're cheap, fast, and always there when i
need them... unless they're out drinking or something.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
11-28-98 New Pages Added: 37 New Links in 5 Categories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award, A Foiling FAQ, and A Look at Sky City
----
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 30 17:38:24 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, Ensembles@compuserve.com
Subject: Framing a round panel
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 19:11:22, -0500
Message-ID: <199812010011.TAA08028@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>Bob,

How do you attach hanging loops to the brass U-cap?

Christie A. Wood<<

I form heavy copper wire around something like a pencil into a circle 
with the two ends extending out about 1/2" and solder to the edge of 
the brass came. Brass solders very well.

If I have a brass circle less than about 18" in diameter I form the 
circle in one piece and use the join point for the area I attach one 
of two hanging loops. I make the second loop solder job look like the 
first one with the join in it. Space my hanging loops about 90 
degrees.

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass 92026
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 30 17:49:59 1998
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X-Path: webtv.net!Beadnik3
From: Beadnik3@webtv.net (J B)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on drilling holes in glass
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 19:38:48 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1998Nov30.143848.0>
Precedence: bulk

Lezlie,
 
I drill holes in thin fusible glass, similar to what you are describing,
(for earrings) all the time.
  
I use a small plastic dish (like an old Cool-Whip container), lined with
a few layers of some of that thin foam that glass is wrapped in for
shipping. I put enough water in so that it just covers the glass when
you put pressure on it.
  
I agree with someone's suggestion of investing in a small drill press
for your dremel....that has made the job much easier for me. They are
available at places like Home Depot and are only about $50... if you
think you will be doing much drilling, that's the way to go.  I use tiny
diamond coated drills that I get at Rio Grande (a jewelry supply
catalog). Mine are not very expensive.... (they do wear out after about
50-75 holes)... they come either 3 or 5 to a package, and come to about
$2 per drill bit.
  
Until you get the drill press, put a small piece of masking tape where
the hole will go (prevernts the skittering). Use a fairly slow speed...
my variable-speed dremel is usually set at about the number 2-3. Start
your hole out at an angle (about 45 degrees) and gradually striaghten it
out. Every five seconds or so (I just count to five), lift the drill out
to allow water to get under the drill bit. Use minimal but steady
pressure... try to keep the drill as straight as possible. I find the
foam under the glass cushions the drill bit when it goes all the way
through, and flare is minimal. I always drill from the "good" side to
the back.
  
I've got a bunch of earrings baking in the kiln right now, and will be
drilling my heart out as soon as they cool... it is NOT my favrite job,
but, hey.... someone's got to do it!
  
Hope all this helps... feel free to e-mail me at Beadnik3@webtv.net if
you have any questions.
  
Joan
Beadnik Jewelry Creations
Connecticut

 
X-Path: =A0=A0 aol.com!Lezliesart From: =A0=A0 Lezliesart@aol.com To:
=A0=A0 glass@bungi.com Subject: =A0=A0 Looking for advice on drilling
holes in glass Date: =A0=A0 Mon, Nov 30, 1998, 7:17am   =A0 I'm trying
to drill tiny holes in some fused glass jewelry and having problems. I
bought a fairly cheap diamond drill set to use in my dremel, rigged up a
water drip to keep water on the drill site and proceeded to ruin two
drill bits. The first hole was fine the second fair, and by the third
the drill just skittered across the surface of the glass. I was drilling
into mostly one layer thin fusible glass so I was surprised that it
didn't work. I'm sure that more expensive drill bits are available that
would probably work a little better but before I invest I'd love to know
if anyone has had any experience with this. Am I doing something wrong?
I'd hate to spend a lot of cash on a drill bit and ruin it with the
first few attempts to use it.  =A0I'd appreciate any advice anyone has
on the subject. =A0 =A0 Thanks  =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0 =A0
Lezlie

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From owner-glass Mon Nov 30 18:04:00 1998
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: problem with lead came nippers
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 16:44:56 -0800
Message-ID: <199812010044.QAA26031@oceanus.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all.  Do lead came nippers "wear out"?  I've only done 5 or 6 panels with
mine, but I'm finding they no longer make a nice clean cut...there's a
nubbin of lead that sticks out from the cut now.  It's a little ridge that's
located midpoint on the end of the came, about where the jaws come together.
Do they need sharpening or something?  None of my books talk about this...If
they do need sharpening, how is this done and with what tool...I have a
bunch of lead panels ahead of me and this is annoying...
Thanks in advance....

Carol

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

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From owner-glass Mon Nov 30 19:43:26 1998
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From: IMN2GLASS2@aol.com
To: dany@city-net.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: framing a round panel
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 21:05:42 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec1.2542.0>
Precedence: bulk

I read all the suggestions for framing a round panel, I didn't see anyone
suggest ladder chain..so I will :).Ladder chain is elegant when used to border
a round or oval panel,and you can make your own hooks by using one rung of the
ladder chain and soldering it to the outside chain at a joint. I like this
alot and have gotten many compliments on it before..Just my two cents :), Judy
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 30 22:37:40 1998
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From: "Karen K." <giapet@softhouse.com>
To: "Bungi List" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: problem with lead came nippers
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 22:55:24 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Nov30.175524.0>
Precedence: bulk

Carol, sounds like someone was cutting wire with them,  is that a
possibility?
Karen

>Hi all.  Do lead came nippers "wear out"?  I've only done 5 or 6 panels
with
>mine, but I'm finding they no longer make a nice clean cut...there's a
>nubbin of lead that sticks out from the cut now.  It's a little ridge
that's
>located midpoint on the end of the came, about where the jaws come
together.
>Do they need sharpening or something?  None of my books talk about
this...If
>they do need sharpening, how is this done and with what tool...I have a
>bunch of lead panels ahead of me and this is annoying...
>Thanks in advance....
>
>Carol
>
>Carol Swann
>Synergy Glass & Creative
>http://www.igga.org/synergy
>seaspray@island.net
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Mon Nov 30 22:39:57 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  framing a round panel
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 23:28:16 EST
Message-ID: <1998Dec1.42816.0>
Precedence: bulk


In a message dated 11/30/98 1:40:02 PM, dany@city-net.com wrote:

>I'm making a 14" diameter round copper foil panel.  Is the best way to
>frame it with U Lead came?  Any other suggestions welcome!

I've been using 1/8" zinc U channel for rounds that size. Bends easily and
gives the piece a good solid structural support.


Sparks
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 30 22:51:07 1998
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From: "Linda Letscher" <andor@fair.net>
To: "bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Warner Crivellaro web page down
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 23:32:42 -0500
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Charlie,
Thought I would post this in case you happen to check e-mail.
Eljay


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From owner-glass Mon Nov 30 23:04:50 1998
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: My new web site!
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 00:39:00 -0000
Message-ID: <199812010542.AAA16095@uz.ComCAT.COM>
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>Hey!  Check out
>
>http://www.igga.org/wood/
>
>It's my very own web site!  Curtsey of IGGA and Albert Lewis!

VERY nice web site, Christie. Good job, Albert. It's so easy to use.
I've seen these all "in person" except for the grape one, and they are 
magnificent, I can tell you!

When will there be more? How about some more of the planet ones? Want to 
compare Mars to Venus (haha). I know you have lots more, Christie!

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Mon Nov 30 23:20:08 1998
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From: "Doug Parrott" <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
To: "Carol Swann" <seaspray@mail.island.net>
Subject: Re: problem with lead came nippers
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 21:37:44 -0800
Message-ID: <1998Nov30.133744.0>
Precedence: bulk

Carol,


I have not experienced any wear out when I use them properly.  The only time
I have had trouble is when i also used them to cut wire.   Now,  that
doesn't happen any more.   The pair I have now are only used for lead.
They are so expensive I think I would try to get them resharpened before
trying to replace them.  IMHO

Cheryl

-----Original Message-----
From: Carol Swann <seaspray@mail.island.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Monday, November 30, 1998 6:10 PM
Subject: problem with lead came nippers


>Hi all.  Do lead came nippers "wear out"?  I've only done 5 or 6 panels
with
>mine, but I'm finding they no longer make a nice clean cut...there's a
>nubbin of lead that sticks out from the cut now.  It's a little ridge
that's
>located midpoint on the end of the came, about where the jaws come
together.
>Do they need sharpening or something?  None of my books talk about
this...If
>they do need sharpening, how is this done and with what tool...I have a
>bunch of lead panels ahead of me and this is annoying...
>Thanks in advance....
>
>Carol
>
>Carol Swann
>Synergy Glass & Creative
>http://www.igga.org/synergy
>seaspray@island.net
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



----
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  1 00:11:24 1998
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From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: framing a round panel
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:46:52 +0800
Message-ID: <1998Dec1.234652.0>
Precedence: bulk

Some one else this question and I will too. What is this zipper?

Shakeel Abedi
shakeel@tm.net.my
Shakeel Abedi
Rainbow Stained Glass
104, Jalan Mersing
86000 Kluang
Malaysia
Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313
-----Original Message-----
From: wellwood <wellwood@netcom.ca>
To: Daniela Birkelbach <dany@city-net.com>; glass@bungi.com
<glass@bungi.com>
Date: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 7:05 AM
Subject: Re: framing a round panel


>I have done many of these and have nearly always framed with zipper which I
>then coated with solder and coloured to match the remainder of the solder,
>ie: copper or black.
>
>----
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From owner-glass Tue Dec  1 00:29:41 1998
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From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: "Bungi Group" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Introduction & Foiler
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:39:19 +0800
Message-ID: <1998Dec1.233919.0>
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Welcome Steve, to a wondeful group.

Mike has said it, and many else will too. Nothing beats the good old fingers
when foiling.

I have hand foilers made by Fletcher, my wife swears by it. I have an Inland
foiler which I have never used.  I have a friend in Singapore, who
recommends the Glastar model.

Try out each by turn at your supplier's. Stick to fingers if you can.

Enjoy

Shakeel Abedi
shakeel@tm.net.my
Shakeel Abedi
Rainbow Stained Glass
104, Jalan Mersing
86000 Kluang
Malaysia
Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313
-----Original Message-----
From: M. Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: Steve Hart <steve.hart@ces.uwex.edu>
Date: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: Introduction & Foiler


>Steve Hart wrote:
>>
>> Hi fellow stained glass glassers:
>>
>> Let me introduce myself.  My name is Steve and I am from Wisconsin.  I
took
>> a stained glass class about a year ago and loved it.  I really have not
>> done much since that time (not enough hours in the day) but I did but a
lot
>> of pre-cut kits to work on.  I am presently replacing the clear glass in
>> some attic windows with stained glass and working on a panel for one of
the
>> windows.
>>
>> I need your advice.  What kind of foiler to you use and why?
>>
>> Steve
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
>i use my fingers, because they're cheap, fast, and always there when i
>need them... unless they're out drinking or something.
>
>---Mike Savad
>
>--
>Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
>http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
>11-28-98 New Pages Added: 37 New Links in 5 Categories, A sneak preview
>of the Brilliance Award, A Foiling FAQ, and A Look at Sky City
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>

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From owner-glass Tue Dec  1 00:47:54 1998
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From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: "Vic" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Flexible brass channel
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:45:44 +0800
Message-ID: <1998Dec1.234544.0>
Precedence: bulk

I tried the fancy flexible brass channel once. It kind of gave the small
panel a very touch. Bought it in four feet lenghts from Warner-Criv.

I used as border for a oval panel.

Shakeel Abedi
shakeel@tm.net.my
Shakeel Abedi
Rainbow Stained Glass
104, Jalan Mersing
86000 Kluang
Malaysia
Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313
-----Original Message-----
From: Vic <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 12:00 AM
Subject: Flexible brass channel


>I would like to know how and where flexible channel is used.  Is it used in
>conjunction with came or wood frame?  Or is it used alone as a method of
>framing or reinforcement?  I have only seen it in "U" shape, are there
>others?
>
>TIA!
>
>Ciao
>
>Vic
>----
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