From owner-glass Tue Sep  1 01:59:58 1998
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X-Path: home.com!leestat7
From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: BMarhon@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Need color help
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 04:33:30 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep1.03330.0>
References: <<1998Sep1.14926.0>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi,

Try several Glass Manufacturing web sites, most have pictures of their
glass on line.  There is a 'pebbled 'root beer glass, with rich
red-brown streaks, thing it is Spectrum.
http://www.spectrumglass.com/Stocklist.html

I think I saw it in the new Spectrum Catalog of Glass, which of course,
I can't find just now.  Above is their stock list, follow the buttons,
and there is a page for ordering the brochure.  It is really great
almost like having a sample set.  

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/rainboe/



>  << I need to make a panel of an Irish Setter Dog.  Please, what color glass
>  do you think would match the dogs color.  I have been looking and just
>  can't seem to come up with something that is realistic looking.>>
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  1 07:38:07 1998
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 07:05:41 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19)
X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: Re:  Putty recipe/Warning/Tip
Date: Tue Sep  1 07:04:14 1998
Message-ID: <1998Sep2.44014.0>
Precedence: bulk

OK I'll admit my ignorance what is the water bath method?

Vic

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Michael J. Greer
[mailto:GreerStudios@compuserve.com]
		Sent:	Monday, August 31, 1998 6:10 PM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	RE:Re:  Putty recipe/Warning/Tip

		The cement recipe from =

		Peter Mollica's book:

		4 parts whiting
		2 parts Plaster of Paris* NOT
		1 1/2 parts Turpentine
		1 part boiled linseed oil
		1 part Portland cement**NOT!!
		Lampblack to color

		The consistency should be like
		oil sludge.

		**DO NOT use Portland cement -
		this is a recent change - replace =

		these amounts with more whiting.

		*Julie Sloan suggests not using
		to avoid lime bloom, however =

		after trying her suggestions, we
		have gone back to including it
		in the formula because 1.  It
		helps the cement set-up more
		quickly and 2.  lime bloom is =

		not an issue in our dry climate.

		For any of you doing repairs on old
		cemented windows, particularly ones
		that have bowed, we forego the water
		bath method and spray the windows
		lightly with WD40.  This seems to =

		soften the cement, even those with
		Portland, and allows for flattening of the
		panel, as well as removing the lead
		without breaking glass.  I would be =

		curious to know if other studios have
		experienced the same good luck with
		this technique that we have.

		Best regards,

		Dani Greer
		Greer Gallery & Studios
		http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/  =

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----
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  1 08:10:54 1998
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 07:52:12 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19)
X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie
From: Charles Spitzer <charlie@az.stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: application/x-nextmail
Subject: Re:  Putty recipe/Warning/Tip
Date: Tue,  1 Sep 98 07:50:56 -0700
Message-ID: <m0zDrlq-000LkTC@why.az.stratus.com>
Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

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`
end
----
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  1 08:49:58 1998
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19)
X-Path: cybersol.com!TWLARRY
From: TWLARRY@cybersol.com (Nordhoff, Larry)
To: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: picking up kiln wash on projects
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 10:23:44 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep1.62344.0>
References: <<1998Aug31.231647.0>>
Organization: Trade Winds
Precedence: bulk

Steve Richard wrote:
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> I've had a problem with my kiln wash for some time now.
> 
> The kiln wash sticks to the back of my projects often.  It is worst with
> Spectrum (and especially with their opals).  The standard batt wash used
> in ceramics is picked up much more easily than the Hi-Line product.
> 
> I paint the wash on to the shelf "up" and "down" and diagonally left to
> right and right to left.  Fire shelf to about 260 C, hold for 10mins
> with kiln vented.  Then smooth surface with hand or cloth (after it has
> cooled, of course).  This works fine for slumping, but almost always in
> fusing the Spectrum picks up some or all of the wash underneath it.
> 
> Any suggestions on how to avoid this?
> Hi Steve,
I used to have the same problem.  I have found if you don't go over
1450  f the pieces won't stick.  I hold that temp for one hour.  I have
also found that a light sprinkling of talc or baby powder helps too.  I
am able to get through 3 firing without replacing the wash.

TWLARRY
> Steve
> --
> Steve Richard
> Verrier Art Glass Ltd
> s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

From owner-glass Tue Sep  1 10:06:56 1998
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X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie
From: Charles Spitzer <charlie@az.stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re:  Putty recipe/Warning/Tip
Date: Tue,  1 Sep 98 08:54:06 -0700
Message-ID: <m0zDskw-000LkTC@why.az.stratus.com>
Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

geez, you'd think i'd learn.

here's a copy of the pertinent post from the archives:

Return-Path: <owner-glass@daver.bungi.com>
X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Cement Recipe One More Time?
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:46:51 -0400
Reply-To: glass@bungi.com

Here ya go.  This is a compilation of various threads relating to the
cement recipes.
--------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Charles ask that we post our cement recipe so here it is:
 =

1 part Portland cement*
2 parts Plaster of Paris
4 parts whiting
1 part linseed oil
1 1/2- 2 parts mineral spirits or turpentine
lamp black or other "cement" colors (alkali proof) =3D
 =

 =

A "part" can be any measure - we use 1/2 cup portions.  At this proportio=
n,
use about two
Tbsp. of color.  We usually use black, but some might rather use yellow
ochre for brass
channel.  *We've read articles that inclusion of Portland cement is of
questionable worth,
but Mike learned to make cement this way 20+ years ago and has been makin=
g
it that way
ever since. Any opinions?

After making cement, apply to your panel working the goo into the channel=
s.
Then dust
with whiting and clean off the goo with a palmetto brush (this is the bes=
t
part, because
this is where the lead takes on a really beautiful burnish).  Save your
leftover, dirty whiting
from this stage to make your next batch of cement.  Be sure to sift it
first.  Leave the
panels sit overnight for the cement to set-up.  Then detail in the mornin=
g
where the
cement has settled and oozed a bit in the corners. This technique is dirt=
y
and hard work,
but fast and worth every ounce of energy when you see the end result.  Th=
e
only time it's
not a good idea is when your triple-glazing (sandwiching) which we avoid
whenever
possible.

Any better ideas or additions to this are welcome. =

Best regards, Dani Greer
--------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>

I'm going to post what I think is the corrected cement recipe per Julie's=

amendments:
 =

7 parts whiting
1 part boiled linseed oil
1 1/2-2 parts mineral spirits
1-2 Tbsp. lamp black or other colorant
 =

Someone (Len?) also mentioned japan drier - quantity would probably be
minimal.  We haven't tried this out yet - any comments from the experts? =

Can Elisabeth give this recipe to her students? Any other
changes/improvements?  Thanks for the feedback. Best regards,   Dani Gree=
r
--------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@computer.net>
To: glass@BUNGI.COM

 =

>  Exactly what =

> IS whiting?? My understanding is that it is powdered chalk; yet =

> other people tell me it's plaster, others again tell me it's a =

> mixture of chalk AND plaster; others again tell me it is dead, =

> inactive plaster. It's white so it's called whiting. There must be =

> more to it than that...
> So what is it exactly???
 =

This from Julie Sloan's "Conservation of Stained Glass in America," =

<http://www.aiap.com/     with permission:
 =

Traditionally, waterproofing compound was composed basically of boiled
linseed oil and whiting, with plaster of Paris to extend the mixture,
turpentine to thin it, red, white or yellow lead as a drier of the
oil, and lamp black to color the compound grey. These six ingredients
are found in most recipes for waterproofing putty from the nineteenth
century until the mid-1970s, when the use of lead was outlawed in the
US.
 =

Linseed oil is a drying oil, used as the medium in artists' oil paint.
In waterproofing compound, boiled linseed oil is used because it dries
more quickly than unboiled oil. The process of drying is not a
volatilization; that is, nothing evaporates from linseed oil to leave
a solid behind, which is what happens when lacquers or watercolors,
for instance, dry. Instead, linseed oil oxidizes and polymerizes,
meaning that it absorbs oxygen from the atmosphere, which causes a
chemical change in the oil and results in its thickening and
hardening. A chemical change cannot be re-versed; set waterproofing
compound can never be dissolved to its constituent components of
linseed oil and whiting, unlike lacquer, for instance, which can be
dissolved in the medium in which it was applied originally.
 =

This absorption of oxygen and subsequent chemical change begins to
take place when linseed oil is heated or exposed to driers or other
chemicals, or to sunlight. This is the beginning of the polymerization
process. Boiled linseed oil is not actually boiled; it is heated until
oxidation begins, but the boiling point is not reached. Today,
"boiled" oil is dried with chemicals. This drying process results in a
thicker substance which takes less time to fully polymerize.
Ultimately, when applied and left to set in the air, the fully
polymerized (or dried) oil becomes hard, very durable and waterproof.
Although full drying requires literally tens of years (especially in
thick applications, such as in a bevel), initial oxidation and drying
is achieved in two or three days, after which time a skin or harder
surface has formed which may be painted. Sunlight aids in the drying
process, although too much sun causes cracking.
 =

Whiting is powdered calcium carbonate, or chalk. It is inert, meaning
that it reacts chemically with nothing. It has long been used as an
inexpensive and inferior white pigment in non-oil paints or an
extender for oil paints. Combined with linseed oil, it has a long
history as a putty used in repairing paintings, not to mention in the
glazing of windows.
 =

Plaster of Paris is calcium sulfate. It is produced by roasting gypsum
(which is also calcium sulfate) to drive off most of the water bonded
to its molecules. This allows plaster of Paris to become active,
capable of readily and quickly re-combining with water to form a hard,
brittle material. This ability to combine with water is probably not
why it was used in putties, where such a hard-setting, brittle,
water-soluble material is not desired. While whiting is used as an
extender for oil paints, plaster was considered inferior for this use
because of its hygroscopic nature (meaning it absorbs water from the
air). However, in linseed-oil putty, plaster is used as an inexpensive
extender. In putty recipes, whiting is listed as the principle solid
ingredient. Putty can be made without plaster, but not without
whiting. While plaster is listed in many (but not all) recipes, it is
always in quantities smaller than those required of whiting --
typically, three or four parts whiting to two or three parts plaster.
 =

Turpentine is the distillate of resin from coniferous trees. It is a
commonly-used solvent for oil painting, having a slower evaporation
rate, lower level of flammability, and lower toxicity than solvents
such as kerosene, which will also thin linseed oil. As turpentine
dries, it becomes thick and viscous, which adds to the putty-like
quality of waterproofing compound.
 =

Red lead (Pb3O4) is made by heating white lead (basic lead carbonate,
2PbCO3.Pb(OH)2, the corrosion product of lead exposed to acetic or
other organic acids, used for pigments in white paints) or litharge
(PbO, also called yellow lead or massicot). None of these lead
products is commercially available in the United States today, either
uncombined or as part of another substance. Red lead is not primarily
used as a pigment in paints because it turns black or brown on
exposure to air, but its characteristic as an anti-corrosive made it
useful as the primary ingredient of rust-inhibiting paints. (The
familiar red paint used to prime iron and steel buildings and bridges,
most notably the Golden Gate Bridge, was red lead paint.) Although
white lead was, for many generations, the principle white paint
pigment, lead oxides are more important in paints and putties because
they are driers, added to linseed oil to hasten polymerization. When
lampblack is used to color the putty, which slows the drying process,
the siccative (or drying) nature of red lead becomes even more
important. The red lead in waterproofing compound may have served a
dual purpose: to help the waterproofing compound set, and to prime the
metal.
 =

Since red lead is no longer used in waterproofing compounds, many
experienced glaziers and restorers feel that the waterproofing
compounds commercially available today are of inferior quality to
those available prior to the banning of red and white lead in the
United States. They do not set as well or last as long as red lead
waterproofing compound.
 =

Lamp black (also called carbon black) is a fine, almost pure carbon
powder used as a pigment. It is the soot created from burning
petroleum oils, tars or resins. It has been used since time
immemorial as an oil pigment. Used as the coloring agent of
waterproofing putty, it will retard the drying of the linseed oil
unless driers, like red lead, are added. Today, when we cannot use red
lead in putty, it is important that the amount of lampblack used is
kept to a minimum.
 =

The recipes for waterproofing compound found in stained glass manuals
vary. Amounts of materials differ or are not stated and other
materials are added depending on the author. These other materials
include Japan driers, "patent driers" (metallic salts, usually lead,
cobalt, or manganese) and gold size (a fast-drying varnish), added to
accelerate the drying of the linseed oil. Some recipes call for
"vegetable black" instead of lamp black. (This is a carbon black
pigment derived by burning vegetable matter rather than petroleum
products.)
 =

The most controversial and potentially dangerous ingredient for window
putties is Portland cement. It is only in the last thirty to forty
years that Portland cement has found its way into glazing putties.
Portland cement is a calcined mixture of roughly three parts of
calcium carbonate (chalk or limestone) to one part aluminum silicates
(clay). Its name derives from the similarity in appearance and
hardness to Portland (England) lime-stone. Portland cement sets up in
much the same way plaster of Paris does, by reacting with water to
create heat. However, whereas plaster sets very quickly and is
ultimately rather brittle but soluble in water, Portland cement
continues to harden for a long period of time and results in a very
hard, insoluble material.
 =

The reason this material is dangerous to use on windows is its
hardness. A leaded glass window must move with the expansion and
contraction of the lead came during thermal changes and with wind
pressure. As Portland cement hardens and becomes more rigid, it allows
the window to move less and less. Because the cement will not flex or
crack if the window is forced to move, the glass is likely to break.
In addition, because Portland cement is insoluble, it will be
virtually impossible to dismantle the panel without breaking glass. It
also exhibits excellent adhesion to glass, meaning that even if the
panel comes apart, the putty is very difficult to remove from the
glass.
 =

Modern commercially available putties usually contain elastomers.
These are synthetic compounds designed to keep the putty elastic for
many years, preventing it from hardening up to a rock-like
consistency. None of these has been around long enough for us to know
exactly how long they will perform their task. In Europe, butyl mastic
is a favored putty with good aging characteristics, but its
workability is only fair and it is not presently available in the
United States.
 =

Most of the recipes require that the waterproofing compound be mixed
with enough turpentine and linseed oil to render it somewhat soupy or
"thick as treacle" (molasses). It is scooped onto the panel and forced
under the flanges of the came using a natural bristle brush. Often it
oozes out the opposite side of the panel, which is desirable,
according to some of the handbooks, because then you know that the
putty has gotten into the groove of the came. However, be cautioned
that the putty should not be too runny or there will be nothing left
under the flanges when the oozing has stopped.
 =

This soupy mixture is not recommended, however, if there is plating on
the window. Putty that is runny enough to ooze through the came will
continue to ooze between the plates. When plating is present, a stiff,
thick putty is a better choice, made by lessening the amount of
turpentine used to thin the mixture, or by adding more whiting. It is
applied with the thumb, because it is too thick to brush.
 =

In much restoration, a thick putty is often recommended because it is
easier to control. Thumbing the putty keeps the spread of oil on the
glass in check, making cleaning easier. Also, because a stiff putty
does not ooze, cleaning will have to performed less often. In plated
windows, each layer of plating must be puttied before the next layer
can be soldered in place. This creates its own problems, though, if
the putty boils as the leads are heated for soldering. Care must be
used in this process. If fragile paint or glass exists, even if it has
been consolidated, it may not be desirable to subject it to the rigors
of being scrubbed with bristle brushes and oily putty. Paint or glass
that is textured could trap the putty and be very difficult to clean.
 =

Regardless of whether thick or thin putty is used, cleaning the panel
after puttying is crucial. Studies in Europe have shown that the oils
in putty, if not properly cleaned off the glass, will eventually
corrode glass paint. Liberal dusting and rubbing with whiting is the
most effective, although some glaziers also swear by sawdust. Use of
any of these should be accompanied by wearing a dust mask to prevent
aspiration of the dust. As the putty sets, further cutting back and
cleaning may be necessary to remove oils that travel to the surface.
--------------------------------------------------------------
From: wood@telalink.net
To: glass@bungi.com
 =

Here is the cement recipe I was given when I learned to do leaded
windows: 1 part boiled linseed oil, 1/2 part turpentine, color, and
enough whiting to make the consistency that you wish. For color we use
black paint tint from the paint store. A little goes a long way. I mix
my cement to a thick consistency and thumb push it under the lead came.
I clean up with whiting, let it sit for 24 hrs., then turn and repeat
for the other side. I clean the glass with Hi-Sheen, then rub polishing
compound over the came, dry to a haze, rub off, add black patina, let
dry thoroughly, then brush. I use a horse hair brush (brush made of hair
from horses) to polish the lead to a shiny black. =


Question: Is there such a thing as black whiting or how would one tint
it black? Not very often, but sometimes I get just a few spots that tend
to show some of the white color of the whiting that I used to clean it.
The horse hair brush usually takes care of it, but it would be nice not
to have it to begin with.
 =

Sandy
Creations In Glass

---
Charles Spitzer
charlie@az.stratus.com
Customer Assistance Center
Stratus Computer, Inc.
Phoenix, AZ
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  1 16:17:54 1998
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Subject: Sept. Tampa Home Show and Glass Show
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 18:48:35 EDT
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Hey everyone! Someone had e-mailed me some info regarding the Tampa show this
weekend, I accidently deleted it.  Could you please resend?  Thank you :)
Linda 
Gooooooooooooooo   GGGGGGGAAAAAAATTTTTOOOOOORS
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  1 19:54:03 1998
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Thanks for the replies and especially the explanations of all the ingredient's
functions.  Facinating.

Leslye
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  2 09:28:12 1998
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From: Scott Evans <sae@netins.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Wash sinks
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 10:29:29 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980902102929.01e3a100@pop3.netins.net>
References: <<1998Aug25.5256.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I recently moved into a new house, and have the opportunity to pretty much
design my own stained-glass area.  One feature I'm a bit befuddled about is
what to do for a sink.  In my old house there was a laundry washtub (one of
those 2x2x2 tub things on legs) the worked, but it wasn't very good for
washing off big projects.  

I've thought about making up my own sink (shallower and a larger area for
laying projects down flat) by using plywood to frame it and then using some
sort of waterproofing coating to seal it all up.  Does this sound
reasonable at all?  What features do you have in your sinks that you
like/dislike?  Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Scott
sae@netins.net



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From owner-glass Wed Sep  2 10:37:21 1998
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From: WhispyBlu@aol.com
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Wash sinks
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 12:52:04 EDT
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In a message dated 9/2/98 11:29:28 AM Central Daylight Time, sae@netins.net
writes:

<< I've thought about making up my own sink (shallower and a larger area for
 laying projects down flat) by using plywood to frame it and then using some
 sort of waterproofing coating to seal it all up.  Does this sound
 reasonable at all?  What features do you have in your sinks that you
 like/dislike?  Any suggestions? >>

The best set up I have seen (wish I had room for it) was to use a shower floor
basin as the sink.  You can get different sizes of course, but even the
smaller ones are deep enough and wide enough to do most panels, windows, etc.,
unless you are talking commercial windows, and then you would need a larger
one.

Lu Ann
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  2 11:45:06 1998
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X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie
From: Charles Spitzer <charlie@az.stratus.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: Wash sinks
Date: Wed,  2 Sep 98 10:45:00 -0700
Message-ID: <m0zEGxp-000LkTC@why.az.stratus.com>
References: <<1998Aug25.5256.0>>>
Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc.
Precedence: bulk

You wrote:
<snip>
> I've thought about making up my own sink (shallower and a larger area for
> laying projects down flat) by using plywood to frame it and then using some
> sort of waterproofing coating to seal it all up.  Does this sound
> reasonable at all?  What features do you have in your sinks that you
> like/dislike?  Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Scott
> sae@netins.net

can't you just use your bathtub? :-) that wouldn't have a high spousal  
approval factor (SAF) around here.

i build everything on a board of some type, either a sheet of plywood for  
large panels, a 2x10 or 2x12 for sidelights, or smaller sheet of ply for  
smaller items. i just take the entire board out to my driveway to scrub and  
hose the pieces off. of course, we don't get snow/ice here so i can do this  
year round.

no matter what size sink you make, it'll not be big enough for everything  
eventually. also, you won't be able to do large 3D pieces in a shallow sink  
easily.

charlie
---
Charles Spitzer
charlie@az.stratus.com
Phoenix, AZ
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  2 12:59:36 1998
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X-Path: mail1.ciwemb.edu!jewell
From: "Connie Jewell" <jewell@mail1.ciwemb.edu>
To: " " <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: WASH SINKS
Date: 2 Sep 1998 15:10:36 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep2.111036.0>
Precedence: bulk

  Scott you might just want to check into a Darkroom sink.  They come made out
of stainless steel or ABS Plastic. As an example they have measurements
something like,
69"long by 26" wide and 4.5" deep perfect for larger panels. You can even get
something called a "sink mat" for them which is made of  ribbed soft
PVCmaterial  kinda of a basket weave to let the water go through but it will
cushion your panel and if it would happen to slip out of your hand it wouldn't
slame down into a hard Plastic or steel sink bed.  The smallest one I see
listed in my catolgues are about 48"x24"x4.5".  Calumet Photographic Supple in
Bensenville Il. 1-888-888-9083, they also have stores in the following cites:
Chicago, New York & Los Angeles. And the Calumet people are usually very
helpful on the phone.
 Also probably any larger local professional style photo supply place would be
able to help you as well.
  Just an idea. Even if you made you own you might want to consider purchasing
the mat.

Good Luck 
Jewell
jewell@mail1.ciwemb.edu
--------------------------------------
Date: 9/2/98 12:45 PM
To: Connie Jewell
From: Scott Evans
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From: Scott Evans <sae@netins.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Wash sinks
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 10:29:29 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980902102929.01e3a100@pop3.netins.net>
References: <<1998Aug25.5256.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I recently moved into a new house, and have the opportunity to pretty much
design my own stained-glass area.  One feature I'm a bit befuddled about is
what to do for a sink.  In my old house there was a laundry washtub (one of
those 2x2x2 tub things on legs) the worked, but it wasn't very good for
washing off big projects.  

I've thought about making up my own sink (shallower and a larger area for
laying projects down flat) by using plywood to frame it and then using some
sort of waterproofing coating to seal it all up.  Does this sound
reasonable at all?  What features do you have in your sinks that you
like/dislike?  Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Scott
sae@netins.net



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From owner-glass Wed Sep  2 14:57:17 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: Scott Evans <sae@netins.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Wash sinks
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 17:35:37 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep2.133537.0>
References: <<3.0.5.32.19980902102929.01e3a100@pop3.netins.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Scott Evans wrote:
> 
> I recently moved into a new house, and have the opportunity to pretty much
> design my own stained-glass area.  One feature I'm a bit befuddled about is
> what to do for a sink.  In my old house there was a laundry washtub (one of
> those 2x2x2 tub things on legs) the worked, but it wasn't very good for
> washing off big projects.
> 
> I've thought about making up my own sink (shallower and a larger area for
> laying projects down flat) by using plywood to frame it and then using some
> sort of waterproofing coating to seal it all up.  Does this sound
> reasonable at all?  What features do you have in your sinks that you
> like/dislike?  Any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Scott
> sae@netins.net
> 
> ----
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i heard of people using the bottom of a shower stall mounted on a table
used as a sink. other's have used a whole bathtub (also mounted on a
table).

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  2 17:06:32 1998
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From: Tiffany-Glas@t-online.de (Herbert Luidolt)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Glas-Tec 1998 Germany
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 01:38:29 +0200
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 AT    http://www.bastelzauber.com you found a link to a Site with
pictures from the GlasTec in Duesseldorf (go from Tuesday to 
Saturday this week). The text file are in germany language. Maybe 
anyone could translate this? If not, take a look to the pictures.

herbert

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From owner-glass Wed Sep  2 17:35:02 1998
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From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Wash sinks
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 15:32:17 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <199809022232.PAA11164@ns2.vphos.net>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Scott,
For the larger jobs (or smaller) you can design a trough on the floor and
run a garden hose. The larger panels, like lets say 4' x 6' can just lean up
against the wall while standing in the trough. The outlet running from the
trough just goes outside...and even works in very cold winters (small ice
skating rink, chuckle, but that's okay if off to the side).
Cindy


>
>Scott Evans wrote:
>> 
>> I recently moved into a new house, and have the opportunity to pretty much
>> design my own stained-glass area.  One feature I'm a bit befuddled about is
>> what to do for a sink.  In my old house there was a laundry washtub (one of
>> those 2x2x2 tub things on legs) the worked, but it wasn't very good for
>> washing off big projects.
>> 
>> I've thought about making up my own sink (shallower and a larger area for
>> laying projects down flat) by using plywood to frame it and then using some
>> sort of waterproofing coating to seal it all up.  Does this sound
>> reasonable at all?  What features do you have in your sinks that you
>> like/dislike?  Any suggestions?
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Scott
>> sae@netins.net
>> 

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From owner-glass Wed Sep  2 19:42:13 1998
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Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 22:27:02 -0500
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  2 23:46:35 1998
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X-Path: email.msn.com!bird_cage
From: "Doug Parrott" <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
To: "bungi group" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 23:06:57 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep2.16657.0>
Precedence: bulk

My husband has asked that I not wash my pieces in the sink do to the tiny
bits of solder that sometimes drop onto the glass.   He works at a company
where they do lots of soldering.  The company found years ago that those
tiny bits of solder can clog of the drains after a few years.  I make a lot
of small foiled items and quite often there are tiny bits of solder that I
don't see until clean up.  I usually scrub my pieces in a large bucket and
then pour the water outside.  Have any of you experienced problems with
solder clogging drains?   I really get tired of filling up those buckets!

Thanks,

Cheryl

-




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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 01:16:55 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: bird_cage@email.msn.com, glass@bungi.com
Subject: Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder
Date: Thu,  3 Sep 1998 03:38:03, -0500
Message-ID: <199809030738.DAA11606@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>My husband has asked that I not wash my pieces in the sink do to 
the tiny
bits of solder that sometimes drop onto the glass.   He works at a 
company
where they do lots of soldering.  The company found years ago that 
those
tiny bits of solder can clog of the drains after a few years.  I make 
a lot
of small foiled items and quite often there are tiny bits of solder 
that I
don't see until clean up.  I usually scrub my pieces in a large 
bucket and
then pour the water outside.  Have any of you experienced problems 
with
solder clogging drains?   I really get tired of filling up those 
buckets!

Thanks,

Cheryl<<

Now this is an interesting problem. Some thoughts:

1. I doubt you are going to clog up your plumbing but you can check 
the trap that sinks have by code. Pull the trap and see what you have 
been trapping.

2. Is it nice to put solder balls down your sink? Probably not and 
likely not legal if the fine print is read on the municipal code.

3. I would rather you used the sink after removing solder balls from 
your work. Using a bucket and pouring it outside leads to lead 
contamination that I would guess is neither safe or legal. Hope you 
do not pour the waste water in the garden or an area where children 
play now or in the next XXX years.

4. I would like to know what others think on this subject. Is there a 
balance between what is practical and safety? I for one would like to 
know.

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026
Interested in talking glass? Subscribe to       glass@intrastar.net
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 01:44:54 1998
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X-Path: seaside.net!gspicer
From: "Glenn Spicer" <gspicer@seaside.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Wash sinks
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 23:07:21 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep2.16721.0>
Precedence: bulk

Scott
To begin with, I'm not sure why you want to lay your window flat to clean 
it, unless you are using whiting, which does not require a sink. I wash all 
my windows vertical from top to bottom then rinse top to bottom with hot 
water. The sink does not have to be wide or deep, just long (to the extent 
of the longest window you might consider doing). I actually found a 
stainless steel restaurant sink at an auction, all plumbed and ready to go. 
A previous smaller sink I had made using plywood to the shape I wanted then 
fiberglassed the surfaces, and it is still in great shape and waterproof. 
The latter is probably your best bet. Oh yes, you may want to consider 
rather than just a tap, a flexible hose with a rinsing head, (you could use 
the pull out type of rinser found in many kitchen sinks)
Glenn Spicer,
The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada

-----Original Message-----
From:	Scott Evans [SMTP:sae@netins.net]
Sent:	Wednesday, September 02, 1998 8:29 AM
To:	glass@bungi.com
Subject:	Wash sinks

I recently moved into a new house, and have the opportunity to pretty much
design my own stained-glass area.  One feature I'm a bit befuddled about is
what to do for a sink.  In my old house there was a laundry washtub (one of
those 2x2x2 tub things on legs) the worked, but it wasn't very good for
washing off big projects.

I've thought about making up my own sink (shallower and a larger area for
laying projects down flat) by using plywood to frame it and then using some
sort of waterproofing coating to seal it all up.  Does this sound
reasonable at all?  What features do you have in your sinks that you
like/dislike?  Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Scott
sae@netins.net



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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 03:53:45 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Glas-Tec 1998 Germany
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:04:40 +0000
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Nice to hear from you again Herbert!
Thank you for sharing the Glas-Tec exhibition in Duesseldorf with us.
I spent a delightful hour or so exploring the exhibition with you.
Hey you guys Across the Pond; well worth a visit (even if it IS all 
in German).
 Am also interested in the CD-roms you have produced and 
will get back to you separately about those.
Well done!
Toll gemacht!!

Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Herbert in Germany wrote:
>  AT    http://www.bastelzauber.com you found a link to a Site with
> pictures from the GlasTec in Duesseldorf (go from Tuesday to 
> Saturday this week). The text file are in germany language. Maybe 
> anyone could translate this? If not, take a look to the pictures.
> 
> 
 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 04:23:26 1998
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From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: tiny solder balls..........
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 06:47:54 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.104754.0>
Precedence: bulk

>>My husband has asked that I not wash my pieces in the sink do to the tiny
bits of solder that sometimes drop onto the glass.   He works at a company
where they do lots of soldering.  The company found years ago that those
tiny bits of solder can clog of the drains after a few years.  

Hello All,

All things are relative.   How much soldering do you do compared to your
husband's work?   How much other water do you run down your drains?   What
else is this sink used for?   Do you knock all the loose solder off before you
wash the pieces?   How bad would it be taking the trap apart in a few years
and cleaning it or calling a plumber to do it for you?   

I personally belong to the use the bath tub school of thought.   It may not be
the safest lead wise in terms of health or ecology but it is about all I have.
I wash the glass, then wash the tub, love those multi function tasks.

You guys are great, thanks for all the useful info.

Pat
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 06:27:06 1998
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From: Leslye2@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: design question
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:12:46 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.131246.0>
Precedence: bulk

I am making the windows for my entry- 2 sidelights and door (halflights).  The
sidelights have matching small bevel clusters and the door has a large
cluster.   The sidelights have bevel borders and the door has a border of
ripple glass and then a bevel border.  The top of the clusters will be at the
same height.   My question has to do with the lines that break up the
background.
Does it matter if the lead lines line up across all 3 windows? Some of them
will not be able to be the same because of the different size of the clusters.
Is this a basic principle of design?  The bevel borders are not the same size
either.  Am I messing up this project with my ignorance of design?
Thanks for your advice,
Leslye
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 07:15:17 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glas-Tec 1998 Germany
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:28:12 +0000
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> Thank you for sharing the Glas-Tec exhibition in Duesseldorf with us.
> I spent a delightful hour or so exploring the exhibition with you.
> Hey you guys Across the Pond; well worth a visit (even if it IS all 
> in German)

Here's a neat trick. Go to
http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate?
and type in the URL you want to translate into English. Select the 
original langage to English button and click on "Translate." You'll 
get the site in English then. Cool, huh?

Albert
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 07:24:54 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:44:17 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.54417.0>
References: <<1998Sep2.16657.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Doug Parrott wrote:
> 
> My husband has asked that I not wash my pieces in the sink do to the tiny
> bits of solder that sometimes drop onto the glass.   He works at a company
> where they do lots of soldering.  The company found years ago that those
> tiny bits of solder can clog of the drains after a few years.  I make a lot
> of small foiled items and quite often there are tiny bits of solder that I
> don't see until clean up.  I usually scrub my pieces in a large bucket and
> then pour the water outside.  Have any of you experienced problems with
> solder clogging drains?   I really get tired of filling up those buckets!
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Cheryl
> 
> -
> 
> ----
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i personally never have, though i try to remove the large drops before
washing. most of the time the remaining solder sits on the surface, and
i can wipe up the solder. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 07:33:54 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:22:19 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.52219.0>
Precedence: bulk

How about putting a very fine filter, such as a piece of panty hose
into the sink's basin.  This will catch the tiny bits of solder as you
are washing it, and prevents them from going down the sink.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 07:45:34 1998
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From: Kath8284@aol.com
To: YWAH36A@prodigy.com, Glass@Bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:49:43 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.134943.0>
Precedence: bulk

   I keep a bottle of Windex and rolls of paper towels in my work area.  After
I finish every piece of glass, I spray them down with the Windex and wipe with
the paper towels.  When I leave the Studio, I take the glass work to the
laundry  room sink for a thorough cleaning with dish washing detergent.  Doing
this I never have the little bits of solder going into my sink.

   Water and Vinegar would work just as well as the Windex too.........more
cost efficient also.  Duh.....that just hit me like a "rock"......been using
the Windex for years and the "Vinegar and Water" just popped into
mind........."Sometimes you feel like a nut".......

Kathy
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 07:55:14 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: Leslye2@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: design question
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:57:43 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.55743.0>
References: <<1998Sep3.131246.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Leslye2@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I am making the windows for my entry- 2 sidelights and door (halflights).  The
> sidelights have matching small bevel clusters and the door has a large
> cluster.   The sidelights have bevel borders and the door has a border of
> ripple glass and then a bevel border.  The top of the clusters will be at the
> same height.   My question has to do with the lines that break up the
> background.
> Does it matter if the lead lines line up across all 3 windows? Some of them
> will not be able to be the same because of the different size of the clusters.
> Is this a basic principle of design?  The bevel borders are not the same size
> either.  Am I messing up this project with my ignorance of design?
> Thanks for your advice,
> Leslye
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

at the very minimum, i'd mirror the sidelights. those lines should
connect. the center door does'nt really have to. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 08:25:26 1998
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder
Date: Thu Sep  3 08:06:24 1998
Message-ID: <1998Sep4.54224.0>
Precedence: bulk

I made my own lead trap out of a flange and some screen. 
The "lip" of the flange should overlap the drain a little. 
Originally I used duct tape to hold the screen in place, but latter
found cable ties work better.

The idea came from looking at a lint trap on the washing machine hose.

If anyone has any ideas what to do with the salvaged solder I'd love to
hear them.


Vic 
		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Doug Parrott [mailto:bird_cage@email.msn.com]
		Sent:	Thursday, September 03, 1998 2:07 AM
		To:	bungi group
		Subject:	Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder

		My husband has asked that I not wash my pieces in the
sink do to the tiny
		bits of solder that sometimes drop onto the glass.   He
works at a company
		where they do lots of soldering.  The company found
years ago that those
		tiny bits of solder can clog of the drains after a few
years.  I make a lot
		of small foiled items and quite often there are tiny
bits of solder that I
		don't see until clean up.  I usually scrub my pieces in
a large bucket and
		then pour the water outside.  Have any of you
experienced problems with
		solder clogging drains?   I really get tired of filling
up those buckets!

		Thanks,

		Cheryl

		-




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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 08:57:33 1998
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From: WhispyBlu@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:09:33 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.15933.0>
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In a message dated 9/3/98 9:47:19 AM Central Daylight Time, Kath8284@aol.com
writes:

<<   I keep a bottle of Windex and rolls of paper towels in my work area.
After
 I finish every piece of glass, I spray them down with the Windex and wipe
with
 the paper towels.  >>

I was told, from the beginning of doing glass, not to use any window cleaner
that has ammonia in it because it can dull the stained glass.  True or false?

Lu Ann
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 09:31:50 1998
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X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones
From: "B. S. Jones" <b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: squirrel pattern needed
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:09:19 +0100
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.17919.0>
Precedence: bulk

I think that I have collected over 200 patterns up to now off the books
I have collected and the internet as well as 100megs or so of glass
images. A friend has asked me to do a suncatcher but it must have a
squirrel or squirrels in it. I have dogs ,cats,birds.people everything
except a squirrel. my minimum line art at present is terrible due to
lack of experience so a spectrum glass type of grade squirrel pattern
would be much appreciated if anybody has one or knows of one available.

ta very much

Brandon

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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 09:38:09 1998
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From: "K. See" <atf@socent.org>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 11:25:36 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.72536.0>
References: <<1998Sep3.134943.0>>
Organization: SOC Enterprises
Precedence: bulk

It was my understanding not to use window cleaner with ammonia on our finished
peices. It reacts with the solder & patina. Have I been wrong all this time?

Kath8284@aol.com wrote:

>    I keep a bottle of Windex and rolls of paper towels in my work area.  After
> I finish every piece of glass, I spray them down with the Windex and wipe with
> the paper towels.  When I leave the Studio, I take the glass work to the
> laundry  room sink for a thorough cleaning with dish washing detergent.  Doing
> this I never have the little bits of solder going into my sink.
>
>    Water and Vinegar would work just as well as the Windex too.........more
> cost efficient also.  Duh.....that just hit me like a "rock"......been using
> the Windex for years and the "Vinegar and Water" just popped into
> mind........."Sometimes you feel like a nut".......
>
> Kathy
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 09:52:35 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 11:46:47 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.74647.0>
References: <<1998Sep4.54224.0>>
Precedence: bulk

daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano wrote:
> 
> I made my own lead trap out of a flange and some screen.
> The "lip" of the flange should overlap the drain a little.
> Originally I used duct tape to hold the screen in place, but latter
> found cable ties work better.
> 
> The idea came from looking at a lint trap on the washing machine hose.
> 
> If anyone has any ideas what to do with the salvaged solder I'd love to
> hear them.
> 
> Vic
>                 -----Original Message-----
>                 From:   Doug Parrott [mailto:bird_cage@email.msn.com]
>                 Sent:   Thursday, September 03, 1998 2:07 AM
>                 To:     bungi group
>                 Subject:        Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder
> 
>                 My husband has asked that I not wash my pieces in the
> sink do to the tiny
>                 bits of solder that sometimes drop onto the glass.   He
> works at a company
>                 where they do lots of soldering.  The company found
> years ago that those
>                 tiny bits of solder can clog of the drains after a few
> years.  I make a lot
>                 of small foiled items and quite often there are tiny
> bits of solder that I
>                 don't see until clean up.  I usually scrub my pieces in
> a large bucket and
>                 then pour the water outside.  Have any of you
> experienced problems with
>                 solder clogging drains?   I really get tired of filling
> up those buckets!
> 
>                 Thanks,
> 
>                 Cheryl
> 
>                 -
> 
>                 ----
>                 For subscription changes, please mail to:
> glass-request@bungi.com
>                 To send to the list,      please mail to:
> glass@bungi.com
>                 Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i collect all the scrap from projects or repairs into a box. when the
box get's full (about 1-2 handfulls),  i melt it down. i have a few smal
ingot makers, actually it'a a lead mallet maker, but it does it's job. i
just got a lead anchor mold, and i'll probably be using that.

i use a metal ladel (the type for melting metals). i use a torch to melt
it down, and very carefully pour it into the mold. done right, you
should have shiny solder pouring, and the slag is left behind (along
with foil bits etc.

then i put the very non-virgin (but clean) solder ingots away. when i'm
working on a window i use this solder as a filler solder. i must have
saved several pounds of solder using this method. the 60/40 goes over
that as a bead. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 10:00:08 1998
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X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen
From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: vinegar and water
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:40:34 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <199809031540.IAA11224@ns2.vphos.net>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Kathy!
 
Yep, being a windex user too, (I had to stop the "famous" glazers brand
because of cost) 
I'll be trying vinegar and water soon:)

Cindy
Who knows she is a nut.grin



>>> Water and Vinegar would work just as well as the Windex too.........more
>cost efficient also.  Duh.....that just hit me like a "rock"......been using
>the Windex for years and the "Vinegar and Water" just popped into
>mind........."Sometimes you feel like a nut".......<<<
>
>Kathy
>----
>

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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 10:30:32 1998
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From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: chemicals & tiny bits of solder
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:06:42 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <199809031506.IAA09938@ns2.vphos.net>
Precedence: bulk


>>>>4. I would like to know what others think on this subject. Is there a 
>balance between what is practical and safety? I for one would like to 
>know.<<<
>
>Bob
>
 Hi Bob,
I don't live on a city sewer system, but run a septic field in the front
yard. And the tank needs to be pumped out every 4 years.
The fellow who does that, has told me heavy metals and chemicals thru my
system is not the best thing to do.
This stuff desperses into the soil in the yard, if not held in sludge in the
tank.
His considerations were to have the tank cleaned out a little quicker than
the usual to keep things under control... Now  I can see his reasoning as
some products on the market that we all use can slow down the natural
decomposing of waste, for people using a septic field. But when it lands in
the yard I consider that a toxic dump, whether I trash it by bucket or allow
it to flow. Yes that does bother me and haven't come up with a solution to
the problem and continue to do so.

But even though the grass is always green, doesn't mean it's good:)

In my closing thoughts, chuckle, I do feel better to know it's in the system
than tossed away by hose or bucket for the "next" unknowing owner of my
property.
But whether that's truely a good thing, I doubt it as we all play a part in
dumping garbage and that's a scary thought for years to come.

Cindy:)
Nothing like starting the day with heavy thoughts.grin.

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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 10:32:18 1998
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X-Path: tir.com!jazzykid
From: "Jazzykid" <jazzykid@tir.com>
To: <Leslye2@aol.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: design question
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 13:00:37 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.8037.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi,
I was reading an article just this week from Glass Craftman...about "What is
a Good Design" by Stu Goldman. pg 23.  It discusses
balance,symmetry,repetition,contrast,radiation,concentration and texture.
In fact, I have read the article a couple times, guess I can be alittle
dense at times...LOL.  But, still haven't figured out the differences
between which effects are necessary.  Plus, Mr Goldman states that there are
many more for composition design.  Argh...  But, maybe someone on the list
can tell you where to find the article or scan it for you...but haven't
picked up a scanner yet.  Good Luck with your design:-)
Jill Medlyn
jazzykid@tir.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Leslye2@aol.com <Leslye2@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, September 03, 1998 8:56 AM
Subject: design question


>I am making the windows for my entry- 2 sidelights and door (halflights).
The
>sidelights have matching small bevel clusters and the door has a large
>cluster.   The sidelights have bevel borders and the door has a border of
>ripple glass and then a bevel border.  The top of the clusters will be at
the
>same height.   My question has to do with the lines that break up the
>background.
>Does it matter if the lead lines line up across all 3 windows? Some of them
>will not be able to be the same because of the different size of the
clusters.
>Is this a basic principle of design?  The bevel borders are not the same
size
>either.  Am I messing up this project with my ignorance of design?
>Thanks for your advice,
>Leslye
>----
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 11:06:33 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, Leslye2@aol.com
Subject: design question
Date: Thu,  3 Sep 1998 13:37:21, -0500
Message-ID: <199809031737.NAA11506@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>I am making the windows for my entry- 2 sidelights and door 
(halflights).  The
sidelights have matching small bevel clusters and the door has a 
large
cluster.   The sidelights have bevel borders and the door has a 
border of
ripple glass and then a bevel border.  The top of the clusters will 
be at the
same height.   My question has to do with the lines that break up 
the
background.
Does it matter if the lead lines line up across all 3 windows? Some 
of them
will not be able to be the same because of the different size of the 
clusters.
Is this a basic principle of design?  The bevel borders are not the 
same size
either.  Am I messing up this project with my ignorance of design?
Thanks for your advice,
Leslye<<

A few comments:
1. You say the tops of the four clusters are all at the same height. 
I generally perfer to have different size clusters all sharing the 
same center. Think it is a better compromise.
2. The door lights have a ripple glass outer boarder and not the 
sidelights. I suspect this is because the door lights are wider. I 
would rather change the width of the bevel boarders, say, 1 1/2" in 
door and 1" in sidelight. This might permit using the ripple in the 
sidelights also. Just a thought.
3.That the lead lines do not line up is to bad but sometimes 
necessary. Anyone studying your grid plan should be able to see why 
you made the logical choices you made.

Please realize that I am guessing at what much of this entryway will 
look like. My comments may not be valid. You sound like whatever you 
do it will work out well.

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026
Interested in talking glass? Subscribe to       glass@intrastar.net

<Prodigy Distribution List>
TO: YWAH36A

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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 11:39:30 1998
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X-Path: mail1.ciwemb.edu!jewell
From: "Connie Jewell" <jewell@mail1.ciwemb.edu>
To: " " <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Glass Cleaners
Date: 3 Sep 1998 13:51:31 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.95131.0>
Precedence: bulk

  When I worked at a framing shop years ago we used vinegar & water and
instead of paper towels we used newspaper. Best glass cleaner combo ever!  
Jewell
jewell@mail1.ciwemb.edu

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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 12:44:18 1998
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: Glass Cleaners
Date: Thu Sep  3 11:55:13 1998
Message-ID: <1998Sep4.93113.0>
Precedence: bulk

What works better than newspaper, but costs more, is coffee filters. 
The filter absorbs the left over liquid that  causes streaks.

Vic

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Connie Jewell [mailto:jewell@mail1.ciwemb.edu]
		Sent:	Thursday, September 03, 1998 1:52 PM
		Subject:	Glass Cleaners

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		From:	"Connie Jewell" <jewell@mail1.ciwemb.edu>
		To:	" " <glass@bungi.com>
		Subject: Glass Cleaners
		Date:	3 Sep 1998 13:51:31 -0400
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		  When I worked at a framing shop years ago we used
vinegar & water and
		instead of paper towels we used newspaper. Best glass
cleaner combo ever!  
		Jewell
		jewell@mail1.ciwemb.edu

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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 15:16:15 1998
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From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:08:38 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.12838.0>
Precedence: bulk

You're right...Ammonia type glass cleaners react chemically with lead and
cause it to chalk.  Even after cleaning the chalk off, it will continue to
react.  The best product I've found is Kwick-Clean.   Ain't cheap; but a
little goes a long way.  They claim it will prevent chalking for 2 years.
I've been using it for, about, 8 months and love it.

Arnold Schneider    Creekside Creations    Richfield, Pa.
-----Original Message-----
From: K. See <atf@socent.org>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, September 03, 1998 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder


>It was my understanding not to use window cleaner with ammonia on our
finished
>peices. It reacts with the solder & patina. Have I been wrong all this
time?
>
>Kath8284@aol.com wrote:
>
>>    I keep a bottle of Windex and rolls of paper towels in my work area.
After
>> I finish every piece of glass, I spray them down with the Windex and wipe
with
>> the paper towels.  When I leave the Studio, I take the glass work to the
>> laundry  room sink for a thorough cleaning with dish washing detergent.
Doing
>> this I never have the little bits of solder going into my sink.
>>
>>    Water and Vinegar would work just as well as the Windex
too.........more
>> cost efficient also.  Duh.....that just hit me like a "rock"......been
using
>> the Windex for years and the "Vinegar and Water" just popped into
>> mind........."Sometimes you feel like a nut".......
>>
>> Kathy
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
>
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 17:16:30 1998
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X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Glas-Tec 1998 Germany
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 23:21:00 +0000
Message-ID: <199809032225.XAA02455@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

WONDERFUL Albert!

Thanks for the tip! 
Don't need it myself, as I am quite comfortable with German, but 
being a foreigner in UK myself, am quite conscious of Language.
I myself would dearly like a closer and better communication between 
us here in Europe and you guys Across the Pond -, whatever the 
language. ANYTHING to facilitate and help on that level is really 
great. As it is, I admire Herbert for batting against the odds and  
even try and "talk". (HHhhhmmm... and Herbert.... spelling mistakes 
in the German text!! Tush, tush, tush!!   ;->   )
COOL, Albert??? OH   Y E S !!! (Does it work??)
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Albert wrote: 
> Here's a neat trick. Go to
> http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate?
> and type in the URL you want to translate into English. Select the 
> original langage to English button and click on "Translate." You'll 
> get the site in English then. Cool, huh?
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 17:38:00 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: squirrel pattern needed
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 23:21:00 +0000
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Hi Brandon (et al)

I can't do "line art" either.
But a squirrel consists mainly of 3 shapes: 2 ovals and a circle.
1 oval = tail;   2nd oval =body;  circle = head.     Then, you 
attach ears and feet.
That's it.
Then you play around with it, get the curl of the tail right.... or 
how YOU see it.
 Secret is to get the proportions/ angles right.
Squirrels are really quite basic shapes.
Go on, be a devil and experiment!!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Brandon wrote:
> I think that I have collected over 200 patterns up to now off the books
> I have collected and the internet as well as 100megs or so of glass
> images. A friend has asked me to do a suncatcher but it must have a
> squirrel or squirrels in it. I have dogs ,cats,birds.people everything
> except a squirrel. my minimum line art at present is terrible due to
> lack of experience so a spectrum glass type of grade squirrel pattern
> would be much appreciated if anybody has one or knows of one available.
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 18:10:53 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Labor Day Fair
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 20:16:54 -0400
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If any of you should HAPPEN
to be in Colorado Springs,
Colorado this weekend, stop
by the 24th Annual Commonwheel
Labor Day Arts and Crafts Fair!
I'll be in the *Sacred Circle:Art for
Holy Places tent.  Stop by and
say "Hi"!

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 18:42:34 1998
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From: Darlene Hendler <mb.sympatico.ca@mb.sympatico.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: vinegar and water
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 20:16:02 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.13162.0>
References: <<199809031540.IAA11224@ns2.vphos.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Can anyone refresh my memory on the ratio of vinegar to water?  Thanks
for all the great ideas!

Darlene
> 
> ----
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From: "Northernlights (Tracy Reitmann)" <Northernlights@pobox.com>
To: "B. S. Jones" <b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: squirrel pattern needed
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 20:58:15 -0500
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Tried to respond directly, but it got booted back!!!!

Cheers!  Don't know if this will help, but if no one answers with any
patterns you might try the library in the children's section -- or coloring

books (sounds corny, I know, but they're easily adapted to stained glass).
I know there's at least a couple of children's books on the market that
have to do with squirrels.  Hope this helps and good luck!!!  Ta!

B. S. Jones wrote:

> I think that I have collected over 200 patterns up to now off the books
> I have collected and the internet as well as 100megs or so of glass
> images. A friend has asked me to do a suncatcher but it must have a
> squirrel or squirrels in it. I have dogs ,cats,birds.people everything
> except a squirrel. my minimum line art at present is terrible due to
> lack of experience so a spectrum glass type of grade squirrel pattern
> would be much appreciated if anybody has one or knows of one available.
>
> ta very much
>
> Brandon
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 20:16:39 1998
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X-Path: chalcot.com.au!chalcot
From: "Gordon Newell" <chalcot@chalcot.com.au>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Large Window
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 12:27:09 +1000
Message-ID: <1998Sep4.22279.0>
Precedence: bulk

G'Day,

I am a dabbler in leadlight (have done a few mirrors and lamps) and I want
to put a panel into an existing kitchen window.

This window is aluminium framed (96cm tall x 84cm wide inside). I won't be
removing the existing glass, just inserting the panel into the inside frame.

Will I need to reinforce a panel of this size?, considering that it will not
be exposed to the outside elements.

If so, what a the recommended methods.

Regards

Gordon Newell.

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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 21:22:56 1998
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Copper colored glass?????
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:45:13 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.194513.0>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,

I am doing a larger box, and need some copper colored glass.  Really
metallic copper color, but it need to be glass.  Goldstone ( which is
glass) is a man made gem stone, and that color would be perfect.  I
haven't a clue what companies make goldstone, or if it comes in sheet
form.  Any suggestions?  It should be 1/8" inch thick, not more than
3/16" at the most. I need 2-3 square feet.   

Thanks a Bunch,

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/rainboe/
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 21:39:17 1998
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X-Path: pobox.com!Northernlights
From: "Northernlights (Tracy Reitmann)" <Northernlights@pobox.com>
To: glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------F5869D668085D8B7D10AA4C5"
Subject: squirrel pattern
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 22:04:25 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.17425.0>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------F5869D668085D8B7D10AA4C5
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Tried to respond directly, but it got booted back!!!!

Cheers!  Don't know if this will help, but if no one answers
with any
patterns you might try the library in the children's section
-- or coloring
books (sounds corny, I know, but I think they could be
easily adapted to stained glass).
I know there's at least a couple of children's books on the
market that
have to do with squirrels.  Hope this helps and good
luck!!!  Ta!

B. S. Jones wrote:

> I think that I have collected over 200 patterns up to now
off the books
> I have collected and the internet as well as 100megs or so
of glass
> images. A friend has asked me to do a suncatcher but it
must have a
> squirrel or squirrels in it. I have dogs
,cats,birds.people everything
> except a squirrel. my minimum line art at present is
terrible due to
> lack of experience so a spectrum glass type of grade
squirrel pattern
> would be much appreciated if anybody has one or knows of
one available.
>
> ta very much
>
> Brandon
>

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n:              ;Northernlights (Tracy Reitmann)
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--------------F5869D668085D8B7D10AA4C5--

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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 22:23:53 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!WhispyBlu
From: WhispyBlu@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: pattern search
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 00:47:01 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep4.4471.0>
Precedence: bulk

I have been to the Pattern Search on Stained Glass Biz, as well as many other
web sites, to no avail.  Cannot anyone direct me to a pattern for praying
hands?  Also, a pattern for a unicorn?

Many Thanks!!!!!

Lu Ann <Whispy Blu@aol.com>
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From owner-glass Thu Sep  3 22:54:58 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio
From: dodgestudio@juno.com
To: chalcot@chalcot.com.au
Subject: Re: Large Window
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 01:24:09 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep3.21249.0>
References: <<1998Sep4.22279.0>>
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Gordon,

If the truth be known reinforcement is just as, if not more important in
your situation.  Your window will be subjected to extremes of heat
buildup between the panes of glass that an "unprotected" window will
never have to bear!  

Another possible consideration that will not directly affect
reinforcement but can shorten the life of the window is moisture
entrapment and condensation.

It's late, but if I'm thinking straight, your window is nearly three feet
wide and so will need to be supported by a minimum of one rebar, possibly
two depending on the way the glass pieces in the design interlock with
one another.  Rebars can be 1/8" by 3/8" flat steel bars anchored into
the window frame and soldered to each lead line that they cross.  Solder
them so that the 1/8" side is against the lead and the 3/8" dimension
stands straight out from the surface of the glass. The bars should be
soldered on the inside or else they will cast shadows on the glass and be
distracting.  Also depending on the type of construction.  (Up till now I
have been assuming lead came.)

As for the condensation thing, see if it will be possible to drill a
couple of weep holes up into the space between the window and the S.G.
panel

Gary Dodge              Dodge Studio Designs

http://www.dodgestudio.com

On Fri, 4 Sep 1998 12:27:09 +1000 "Gordon Newell"
<chalcot@chalcot.com.au> writes:
>G'Day,
>
>I am a dabbler in leadlight (have done a few mirrors and lamps) and I 
>want
>to put a panel into an existing kitchen window.
>
>This window is aluminium framed (96cm tall x 84cm wide inside). I 
>won't be
>removing the existing glass, just inserting the panel into the inside 
>frame.
>
>Will I need to reinforce a panel of this size?, considering that it 
>will not
>be exposed to the outside elements.
>
>If so, what a the recommended methods.
>
>Regards
>
>Gordon Newell.
>
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Fri Sep  4 01:59:56 1998
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X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones
From: "B. S. Jones" <b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk>
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: squirrel pattern needed
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:16:33 +0100
Message-ID: <1998Sep4.101633.0>
Precedence: bulk

the designs are copyright free, is all right, but the use in any other
way 
may constitute copyright infringement and should be avoided, not only
for 
legal reasons, but also out of consideration for the original artist.
Just 
a friendly reminder, not accusing you :). Also let me know if this is 
readable or has "computer noise" as I had a recent mail program problem
and 
have had to reset

I should have clarified this.. the patterns are all out of books or off
sites that state that they can be used by anyone. Some of the books have
80 or more patterns. The images are off anything related to glass that I
have found on the internet and are part of the study period that I did
for two months before I even cut my first piece of glass. I had to find
out what was being done,what you could do and also what I thought I
could attempt myself. And also what I liked. As it turned out only the
glass pictures interested me and the work I have done up to now has been
of the art deco style which does not include painting and firing which
is way out of my league.
Interesting about how you mention that you might copy part of a
commercial design and use it for yor own personal use only. Is this a
general accepted code amongst professionals that they do not mind
amateurs copying their work within reason.Is there any legal tangle
involved here. 

Brandon


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From owner-glass Fri Sep  4 02:14:41 1998
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From: "B. S. Jones" <b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Tracy Reitmann thanks..
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:47:50 +0100
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Tracy.. thanks for your reply , I can only reply to you via bungi
because your  ISP is banned on my site and my site  bham.ac.uk will
bounce all messages from it but will accept bungi ok so thanks for the
suggestions

Brandon.

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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Glas-Tec 1998 Germany
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 06:16:02 +0000
Message-ID: <199809041237.IAA15516@vger.vgernet.net>
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> COOL, Albert??? OH   Y E S !!! (Does it work??)

> > http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate?

Well, it's a machine translation, so I wouldn't use it in business, 
for contracts, etc. You can try it out yourself. Type in a 
one-sentence bio about yourself, translate it into French, capture 
that and translate it into German, then into English. You'll see what 
I mean: it's approximate.

Oh, you can't do that. Okay: English to French and back will be 
enough for you to see what I mean.

Albert
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From owner-glass Fri Sep  4 07:04:19 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Copper colored glass?????
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 09:22:07 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep4.5227.0>
References: <<1998Sep3.194513.0>>
Precedence: bulk

leestat7 wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I am doing a larger box, and need some copper colored glass.  Really
> metallic copper color, but it need to be glass.  Goldstone ( which is
> glass) is a man made gem stone, and that color would be perfect.  I
> haven't a clue what companies make goldstone, or if it comes in sheet
> form.  Any suggestions?  It should be 1/8" inch thick, not more than
> 3/16" at the most. I need 2-3 square feet.
> 
> Thanks a Bunch,
> 
> Lee Boe
> Rain-Boe's Creations
> http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/rainboe/
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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i once had some amber hammered mirror. that looked something like
copper. i wonder if a mirror place can help you. after the silver
coating, copper is sometimes applied. maybe they cn electroplate copper
on the glass for you...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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X-Path: t-online.de!Tiffany-Glas
From: Tiffany-Glas@t-online.de (Herbert Luidolt)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Glas-Tec 1998 Germany
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 20:32:32 +0200
Message-ID: <1998Sep4.223232.0>
References: <<199809032225.XAA02455@saturn.nildram.co.uk>>
Precedence: bulk



Toby schrieb:

> WONDERFUL Albert!
>
> Thanks for the tip!
> Don't need it myself, as I am quite comfortable with German, but
> being a foreigner in UK myself, am quite conscious of Language.
> I myself would dearly like a closer and better communication between
> us here in Europe and you guys Across the Pond -, whatever the
> language. ANYTHING to facilitate and help on that level is really
> great. As it is, I admire Herbert for batting against the odds and
> even try and "talk". (HHhhhmmm... and Herbert.... spelling mistakes
> in the German text!! Tush, tush, tush!!   ;->   )

OK! Yesterday i to the most, today in evening the rest. The first dayi
writing the German text in late night ;-)

herbert

> COOL, Albert??? OH   Y E S !!! (Does it work??)
> Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
>
> Albert wrote:
> > Here's a neat trick. Go to
> > http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate?
> > and type in the URL you want to translate into English. Select the
> > original langage to English button and click on "Translate." You'll
> > get the site in English then. Cool, huh?
> >
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re:Pattern Search-Unicorn
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 11:03:33 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep4.4333.0>
Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone,

Glassy Moments book 3-Fact and Fancy (designs by Karen Ichino) has 3
unicorns. They are all very pretty, if you want me to send you them Lu
Ann I can do that. I searched the guild library and couldn't find this
book, I believe I purchased it from Delphi.

That coloring site had a unicorn too but no praying hands.

http://www.bconnex.net/~mbuchana/realms/page7/unicorn.gif


See ya,

Pam *sm*

--
*********************************
Moswood Mountain Limited
Pamela Burns-Tappan
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html

Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/


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From owner-glass Fri Sep  4 14:59:32 1998
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Glas-Tec 1998 Germany
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 16:47:47 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep4.124747.0>
References: <<199809032225.XAA02455@saturn.nildram.co.uk>>
Precedence: bulk

Now what is really fun is to take a short message in your own language,
use babelfish to translate it into another, then translate it back to
English.  But really, it can be useful to at least get the gist of a
message or a Website.  I've used it for business when I couldn't find
anyone who spoke the language.  Stay away from slang!

Dorothy K

Toby wrote:

> WONDERFUL Albert!
>
> Thanks for the tip!
> Don't need it myself, as I am quite comfortable with German, but
> being a foreigner in UK myself, am quite conscious of Language.
> I myself would dearly like a closer and better communication between
> us here in Europe and you guys Across the Pond -, whatever the
> language. ANYTHING to facilitate and help on that level is really
> great. As it is, I admire Herbert for batting against the odds and
> even try and "talk". (HHhhhmmm... and Herbert.... spelling mistakes
> in the German text!! Tush, tush, tush!!   ;->   )
> COOL, Albert??? OH   Y E S !!! (Does it work??)
> Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
>
> Albert wrote:
> > Here's a neat trick. Go to
> > http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate?
> > and type in the URL you want to translate into English. Select the
> > original langage to English button and click on "Translate." You'll
> > get the site in English then. Cool, huh?
> >
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Fri Sep  4 15:22:02 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Sorry - History Lesson....!
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 22:27:45 +0000
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Hey, Herbert!!
You are supposed to be on HOLIDAY!!!
Don't worry about what I say.... I'm only teasing you (Patrick will 
tell you all about this  Horrible Crazy Swede)!!
However, I WAS serious, when I said that I admired your efforts in 
overcoming all linguistic odds in communicating!
Hut auf!!!
Mach's weiter!!
By the way, Herbert, might Albert's suggestion of that particular 
"translation site" be of any help to you and your busniss?? It sounds 
wonderful  and maybe something you might be able to use (if it 
works...?) I have been very tempted to  stick my neck out and offer 
you a translation service (after all.... that's how I have been 
financing 15 years worth of university studies in 5 different 
countries...!) But maybe Albert's "translation site"  has all the 
answers... This - of course - has greater implications for not just 
US, but also for other people working in stained glass who want to 
reach other people beyond their own linguistic boundaries (The French 
for starters!!!)  People in Eastern Europe, Spain, Mexico, Japan, 
China and - dare I mention it - Taiwan.
And let's be honest about all of this; by talking, communicating and 
even getting to know "the enemy", we will learn a lot.
Herbert produced an excellent site of taking us round a German 
stained glass exhibition. His Guest Book are full of comments like "I 
wish I could speak/read German".
Some of us can; most of us can't
The English speaking world is extra-ordinarily lazy in learning 
non-English languages and learning about non-English culture. I 
should know!!!
When I first arrived in UK in 1960, the University Entrance 
Examination Course (A-Level) stated about Scandinavian and Swedish 
literature  in a dismissive 2-liner amounting to that "Scandinavia 
and Sweden does not have a history of literature" 
Did that get MY back up!!!
The Icelandic Sagas totally dismissed, the Nordic and Viking heritage 
that constitutes at least 25 per cent of British culture and history 
- totally dismissed; the British Legal System being based on the 
Viking Justice system totally ignored (even the word "lawyer" is 
Scandinavian; the jury system originates from the Vikings, the dozen 
concept is a heritage from the Vikings. And who was Alfred Nobel - 
the creator of the Nobel Prize????   ....And the Peace Prize??
Who was Celcius? Who was Linneaus, who was  Leif Erikson and who was 
the inventor of the propellor and who is L.M. Ericson.
And name me the first Woman Nobel Prize winner for literature....
25 percent of the English language owes its existance to 
Scandinavia. I just don't know how many millions there are of you in 
USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand,  ETC,, but in UK there are about 
60 million English speakers . There are 8 million of the likes of me 
in Sweden. 4 millions in Norway, another 4 millions in Denmark, 
another million in Iceland and about another 3 million in Finland. 
Small beer.
 You should know me by now - I always go back to basics.

Again, you should know me by now, when I come across someone trying & 
struggling to make a contribution to Bungi from a non-English 
background, I am ALL THERE, regardless of the language.
I am eagerly awaiting input from East Germany.....  Heavens, DO they 
have somne wonderful stained glass artists!! I have met some of them, 
I have even hosted some of them here in my own home. The obstacle is 
a language one.  Eastern Europe never l;earnt English as a first 
Foreign Language, it was either French, Russian or German (or even 
Japanese!!!). 
Since this Bungi List is mainly USA inspired,  I ask you to be 
particularly sensitive and appreciative of non-English people trying 
to join and make THEIR contributions. 
If Albert's "Translation List" really works, it would be wonderful 
help and tool.

Sorry, Albert .... have I dropped you in it....??

Ah, what the hell.... Am just a little cantankerous Swede with a 
passion for communication.....
Elisabeth 'n a worried Toby in UK


.Got your private 
e-mail . You are free to "burn me" (brennen) on your CD. Just enjoy 
your holiday and we'll talk when you get back.

Oh- by the way.... Patrick has become very q u i e t. Has he run out 
of steam / got fed up  with the crazy Swede / or.....MIGHT he be 
involved in some wonderful stained glass project???
Am holding my breath here.....
P-a-t-r-i-c-k ???!!! are you T-H-E-R-E ????  Yoohoo!!!??
Chicken!!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
> 
> 
> Toby schrieb:
> 
> > WONDERFUL Albert!
> >
> > Thanks for the tip!
> > Don't need it myself, as I am quite comfortable with German, but
> > being a foreigner in UK myself, am quite conscious of Language.
> > I myself would dearly like a closer and better communication between
> > us here in Europe and you guys Across the Pond -, whatever the
> > language. ANYTHING to facilitate and help on that level is really
> > great. As it is, I admire Herbert for batting against the odds and
> > even try and "talk". (HHhhhmmm... and Herbert.... spelling mistakes
> > in the German text!! Tush, tush, tush!!   ;->   )
> 
> OK! Yesterday i to the most, today in evening the rest. The first dayi
> writing the German text in late night ;-)
> 
> herbert
> 
> > COOL, Albert??? OH   Y E S !!! (Does it work??)
> > Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
> >
> > Albert wrote:
> > > Here's a neat trick. Go to
> > > http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate?
> > > and type in the URL you want to translate into English. Select the
> > > original langage to English button and click on "Translate." You'll
> > > get the site in English then. Cool, huh?
> > >
> > ----
> > As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> > North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> > http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> > ----
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> 
> 
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> 
----
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North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Fri Sep  4 15:59:14 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Glas-Tec 1998 Germany
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 23:19:21 +0000
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Yep,
it sort of works. But it does also produce a lot of gibberish.
But it sure is better than "nuttin"
Eurpeans PLEASE take note.
Taking it from there, I'm sure that between the rest of us we can 
help.  There are Germans, French, Hispanic and the odd Swede amongst 
us. Herbert's efforts just sort of got me going. His efforts and site 
is well worth visiting. To have an English translation would 
certainly make it accessible to a lot more people. thanks to Albert!
How can we help non-English speakers further...?
Suggestions please??
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
> 
> > COOL, Albert??? OH   Y E S !!! (Does it work??)
> 
> > > http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate?
> 
> Well, it's a machine translation, so I wouldn't use it in business, 
> for contracts, etc. You can try it out yourself. Type in a 
> one-sentence bio about yourself, translate it into French, capture 
> that and translate it into German, then into English. You'll see what 
> I mean: it's approximate.
> 
> Oh, you can't do that. Okay: English to French and back will be 
> enough for you to see what I mean.
> 
>
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Fri Sep  4 16:19:57 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Glas-Tec 1998 Germany
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Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 23:19:21 +0000
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Sounds like Chinese Whispers Game....
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Dorothy wrote:
> Now what is really fun is to take a short message in your own language,
> use babelfish to translate it into another, then translate it back to
> English.  But really, it can be useful to at least get the gist of a
> message or a Website.  I've used it for business when I couldn't find
> anyone who spoke the language.  Stay away from slang!
> 

> Toby wrote:
> 
> > WONDERFUL Albert!
> >
> > Thanks for the tip!
> > Don't need it myself, as I am quite comfortable with German, but
> > being a foreigner in UK myself, am quite conscious of Language.
> > I myself would dearly like a closer and better communication between
> > us here in Europe and you guys Across the Pond -, whatever the
> > language. ANYTHING to facilitate and help on that level is really
> > great. As it is, I admire Herbert for batting against the odds and
> > even try and "talk". (HHhhhmmm... and Herbert.... spelling mistakes
> > in the German text!! Tush, tush, tush!!   ;->   )
> > COOL, Albert??? OH   Y E S !!! (Does it work??)
> > Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
> >
> > Albert wrote:
> > > Here's a neat trick. Go to
> > > http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate?
> > > and type in the URL you want to translate into English. Select the
> > > original langage to English button and click on "Translate." You'll
> > > get the site in English then. Cool, huh?
> > >
> > ----
> > As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> > North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> > http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> > ----
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> 
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Fri Sep  4 17:30:53 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Klmxklm
From: Klmxklm@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Hexacon soldering irons
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 20:01:23 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep5.0123.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi:
I have 2 questions: First, can anyone tell me the merits (or drawbacks) of
using the "pistol" or "hatchet" handle type of soldering iron, such as
Hexacon?  Secondly, where can one purchase Hexacon irons retail?  Thanks!
"Mike" Mikolajczak
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From owner-glass Fri Sep  4 23:05:18 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Language
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 12:29:33 -0500
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Yoohoo yourself Elisabeth. Am I here?

<<There are Germans, French, Hispanic and the odd Swede amongst  us>>  Your
words "odd Swede" I rest my case.

Patrick is back to teaching. (It's too damn hot for stained glass in the
garage 104 degrees Fahrenheit (was Fahrenheit also a Swede?).

I have many students from different parts of the world and different
cultures.  When I first get my class roster I scan it for names that might
be an exchange student. I try to figure out where they are from and learn at
least the phrase "Welcome to my class", or "Good Evening" in their native
tongue. The shock value is wonderful when their eyes light up I know that I
have their attention. Even if I butcher the phrase they appreciate the
attempt. One of my favorite moments in teaching came when a student's family
came from Japan to visit their daughter. She introduced me to her mother and
father. I said "Coniciwah (Good Afternoon), the father replied " Pardner" (I
live and teach in Central Texas).  He had practiced "Howdy Pardner" for
weeks because he knew I would say something in Japanese, except he forgot
the "Howdy" part. We laughed so hard I thought everyone was going to wet
their pants. When he left he had a ten-gallon hat and silver toed cowboy
boots.

The universal language I think is a smile. If you can get a laugh at the
same time you have communicated. The rest comes easy.

As a great American writer once said:

In Paris, they simple stared when I spoke to them in French; I never did
succeed in making those idiots understand their own language.

                                                    -- Mark Twain

I don't think Mark Twain had an ounce of Swede in him.


Patrick
Roses and Rainbows


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From owner-glass Fri Sep  4 23:21:35 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Salvaged Solder
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 12:37:49 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep5.73749.0>
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Usually fisherman (or is it fisherpersons now?) that make their own sinkers
can melt the solder, came, etc., and can use the bits and pieces. You can
ask the local sport fishing clubs. You might also ask the sporting goods
store if any of their customers use muzzle loading rifles.

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Fri Sep  4 23:35:17 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Lead and Septic Systems
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 12:46:35 -0500
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Just because the lead goes into the septic systems doesn't mean it doesn't
do harm. The effluent that seeps into the ground can go directly to the
aquifer and contaminate the ground water. If you live in an area where you
have a well I would avoid this practice. Can we hear from an expert on this
subject (even though it may be a crappy subject for the week it is
important)? On second thought would anyone admit to being an expert?


Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Fri Sep  4 23:38:41 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bio #  49 Becky Wickline
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 13:19:53 -0500
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I have been lurking awhile but now I think I'll get up the nerve to do a
bio.

I'd hate to see anyone fed to the canines..  I'd offer protection from my 55
lb sheltie-spitz called Tadpole, but with a name like that he's not exactly
ferocious.  Protects my feet mostly.

Well here goes.  I am Becky Wickline and live in Richmond Va.  Besides
Tadpole I have a husband of 31 years, two grown daughters (one in the Coast
Guard and the other the mother of my grandson). I also inherited a cat when
my daughter left for the Coast Guard.

In real life I teach high school Spanish and try to set a good example for
my students.  I also have a split personality.  In my off hours I lead a
troupe of Belly Dancers that perform at nursing homes and for benefits in
the area.

That always gets my students' attention when it gets mentioned in class.  We
have a lot of fun and feel like we do a service for the community.  We all
dance free of charge  and usually dance twice a month.

I got interested in stained glass about 10 years ago by accident.  I have
sewn, crocheted, dribbled in all sorts of crafts and one day I say a stained
glass demonstration on TV.  A little ten minute thing and I thought that was
interesting.  Found classes at the county recreation division and it got
into my blood and that was it.

I have made all sorts of things.  I go to the local stained glass store and
look at the new books and find something I haven't tried before and I'm off.

After a hard day of handling 100 teenager the sound and feel of breaking
glass really relieves tension plus I can be guaranteed of seeing a finished
product. Can't do that with teaching.

My favorite things I've made are a mosaic ship table (made the table too). A
set of iris panels for my downstairs window and a 3x3 panel of our school
mascot that I contributed to the school.

My next project is to replace the bevels and came in my 3/4 oval front door
with my own design. I don't participate in craft shows because I never seem
to have enough products finished.  My daughters come and liberate a lot of
my work and take it
home.  My mother is just as bad.  If I ever get caught up on what my family
wants then maybe I'll do craft shows.  I have done a few profitable pieces
but I'm not giving up my day job.  Even designed belly dancer sun catchers
to combine both my passions.

I guess I've bored everyone enough.  Thanks for the opportunity to introduce
my self.

Becky





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From owner-glass Sat Sep  5 00:08:52 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
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Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bio #50 Tracy Reitman
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 13:31:43 -0500
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Okay, Lurker Bio time I guess=85.we wouldn't want Patrick's leg becoming =
an
afternoon snack for one named Toby!!  Let's see=85where to start=85okay, =
I'm 37,
a desktop publisher who has (and has had) a wide variety of hobbies.

I'm from Minnesota, that's what I tell people when they ask, but I've
actually only spent about half my life there.  I started out in Dallas,
Texas, then Oklahoma City, then to Minnesota (which is where my family is
from).  From there I left once to live in Las Vegas (didn't last a year
there though), returned to Minnesota, then off again to San Francisco for=
 8
years, then back again to Minnesota (but I find
I get quite homesick for San Francisco at times).

As one can imagine, I adapt pretty easily to new situations.  I'm also no=
t
afraid of trying new things.  My main occupation started out being a lega=
l
secretary/assistant but when computers came out I was hooked, and when th=
e
Internet started I was in heaven.  I've
written a few web pages, teaching myself HTML from looking at how other w=
eb
pages were written, and started dabbling in desktop publishing, which is
what I do now full time (although breaking off from working for lawyers w=
as
similar to trying to shoo bees away from you out in the garden in late
summer).

My lack of fear of trying new things allowed me to do all sorts of things=
 --
in San Francisco, I kept busy with things like freelance photography, sta=
ge
managing Shakespeare, learning to play pool (and managing to win a few
trophies in tournaments while I was at it), doing freelance word processi=
ng,
and being a pet food sales rep (which is where I came across my pal, Jack=
,
who is an 8 year-old
part Husky and constant companion -- I should say constant "vocal" compan=
ion
as his Husky blood makes him quite the talker).

I was exposed to stained glass when one of my folks, Sue (or Oddjob as sh=
e's
known here in Bungi-land), started doing it when they were living in Tucs=
on,
Arizona.  Right away I wanted to know how it was done and I remember her
showing me some of the basics  when I would visit them.  After that I
started to notice
it more and more in San Francisco and I remember seeing some awesome piec=
es
around the City.  My folks and I moved back to Minnesota at around the sa=
me
time (about 4 years ago) and then I was able to see her projects being ma=
de.
Finally, about a year ago I decided it was time, I had to learn for mysel=
f
how to do it and asked if she would help me -- she had been perfecting he=
r
skill over the last several years and was creating some really outstandin=
g
pieces.  I
also felt it was something important enough to keep in the family=85kind =
of
like a carpenter teaching his son, who teaches his son, etc.  I feel pret=
ty
fortunate that I have her as my teacher.

Lampshades seem to be my main interest, which explains why I haven't
ventured into leaded pieces yet.  But, living where we do, I figure this
winter there will be plenty of time for that -- winters in Minnesota are
rather long (about 6 months) and people around here usually have a list o=
f
"winter projects" a mile long.  And since I won't be able to spend time i=
n
the flower gardens I have going (which is another hobby that pretty well
consumes a lot of my free time) I
may as well get my feet wet in that area.  (Plus I just bought my first
house and there are a few windows that need dressing up.)

A huge interest of mine is learning about the Anishinaabe (Native
Americans), ranging from their lives, to religion to even learning how to
speak Ojibwe (one of the tribes from this part of the country) and I find
I'm designing quite a bit of southwestern style pieces (okay, I'll admit,=
 I
think only one piece so far "isn't" southwestern-style).  I find the desi=
gn
part the trickiest for me.  I spend I don't know how much time sketching
different designs then go over some of them
with Sue to see what will work and why, and what won't work and why.
Another problem I have is to finally decide what colors of glass I want t=
o
use for a piece -- there's just too many possibilities!!!  It's great!
(Unless you're with me in the glass shop where I can spend literally hour=
s
deciding what I want to use!)

Well, I hope this kept Toby off of Patrick for at least another week or s=
o.
I've enjoyed reading (and learning from) all the posts on Bungi and also
meeting some of the people out there (at least in cyber-space).  That's
about it for me everyone=85I'm now going to see if I can find where I lef=
t my
lurker seat and resume my post there!


Tracy Reitman

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From owner-glass Sat Sep  5 00:23:54 1998
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From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Salvaged Solder
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 23:42:53 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <199809050642.XAA00138@ns2.vphos.net>
Precedence: bulk

>Hmmmm, as I see it now adays...the forward push to non lead pelts in shot
is a good thing..... I do eat the geese and other birds that I shoot.

And leads for fishing line weights may not be the same mixture of alloy.

Even dumps not WANT the waste we have in the glass industry.

Cindy



>Usually fisherman (or is it fisherpersons now?) that make their own sinkers
>can melt the solder, came, etc., and can use the bits and pieces. You can
>ask the local sport fishing clubs. You might also ask the sporting goods
>store if any of their customers use muzzle loading rifles.
>
>Patrick
>Roses and Rainbows
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>

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From owner-glass Sat Sep  5 01:08:20 1998
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Pattern Website
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 00:36:09 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep4.17369.0>
Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited
Precedence: bulk

Alot of you probably know about this site, but I just ran across it last
night. It's a pattern website and they have tons of them!

http://members.aol.com/patternsyw/

See ya, I'm off to read the bios! Thanks Patrick!

Pam *sm*


--
*********************************
Moswood Mountain Limited
Pamela Burns-Tappan
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html

Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/


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From owner-glass Sat Sep  5 08:18:20 1998
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Subject: Re: Lead and Septic Systems
Summary: Authenticated sender is <a1a84211@mail.bctel.ca>
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 07:53:34 +0000
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> Just because the lead goes into the septic systems doesn't mean it doesn't
> do harm. The effluent that seeps into the ground can go directly to the
> aquifer and contaminate the ground water. If you live in an area where you
> have a well I would avoid this practice. Can we hear from an expert on this
> subject (even though it may be a crappy subject for the week it is
> important)? On second thought would anyone admit to being an expert?

I certainly would NOT admit to being any kind of expert.  I can only 
tell you how I handle this.

We have both a well and a septic system (very far apart).  I'm very 
careful to use paper towel to wipe as many of the little solder bits 
as I can off the piece before washing it.   I collect all the solder 
and save it for reuse.  This wiping also removes most of the flux 
that is left after soldering.  I don't know if the acid in flux is 
bad for septic systems, but I suspect it doesn't HELP them.

Shiela

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From owner-glass Sat Sep  5 08:53:49 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: (long) Images and copyright issues, was RE: squirrel pattern needed
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 11:19:54 EDT
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In a message dated 9/4/98 10:00:31 AM, b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk wrote:

>Interesting about how you mention that you might copy part of a
>commercial design and use it for yor own personal use only. Is this a
>general accepted code amongst professionals that they do not mind
>amateurs copying their work within reason. Is there any legal tangle
>involved here. 
>
>Brandon

"Intellectual property" is a very thorny area right now in the graphic design
industry in particular (she said from her perch as a sometime desktop
publisher).

Until the last 10 years or so, the conventional wisdom was "once you change
it, it's yours." And of course even the recognized "greats" of art (and music
too) have copied and reinterpreted each other's work for centuries.

The advent of computerized image manipulation has made it so easy to grab an
image from somewhere (scan it, grab it from the web, whatever) and plunk it
down into your own project (saving you the trouble of actually drawing or
otherwise constructing the copy) that the industry is trying to set
guidelines/standards defining copyright infringement on artists' "intellectual
property" in an effort to answer the questions: *Just how much* do you have to
change it before it's yours? 10%? 25%? And who decides "how much" it's been
changed?

Grabbing a stock image out of a book or off the net and sticking it as-is into
a piece of work for a client is recognized as "theft of intellectual
property." Grabbing a couple of stock images and combining them via
"Photoshop" - say, taking the people from one photo and superimposing them on
another of a tropical sunset - may or may not be (and the stock-photo people
would most likely say it is; better to pay the few bucks for the use of the
pictures). Using a stock image as a "starting idea" for a project using
"Fractal Design Painter" or some other such painting/drawing program and
producing a piece that looks as if it might have been done by an Abstract
Impressionist almost certainly isn't.

(Similar things are happening in the music biz. Remember the lawsuit against
George Harrison by the folks who claimed that the tune of "My Sweet Lord" was
a ripoff of their early 60's hit "He's So Fine"? I think they won too - at
least the first round.)

So where does that leave most of us who live in that great gray area of "more
artisan than artist," who "can't draw" or aren't very good at seeing original
things in our heads but are pretty good at adapting something we saw in a
picture somewhere?

If you're strictly a hobbyist and never sell anything you make, you're pretty
much safe from the legal sharks. But (for instance) if you want to make a copy
of something you saw on someone's web site, the "right thing to do" is
*always* to contact the artist and ask if it's OK. They might say no, but who
knows? they might sell you a copy of the pattern for a couple of bucks! And
what's a couple of bucks in the cost of making a glass piece? The "good will
in the community" is worth it!

When you start selling things, you need to keep your ducks in a row and make
sure you've bought the pattern or otherwise got permission from the owner of
the design. And the higher your profile, the more you've got to distinguish
between your own original work and copies/reproductions/adaptations of
existing designs.

Beyond the legal liability, it's a matter of your own integrity as an
artist/artisan to acknowledge your sources and say that something is a
reproduction of a Tiffany or a Frank Lloyd Wright or a Mackintosh or a Marcel
Duchamps (my pipe dream is to do his famous "Nude Descending a Staircase #2"
in glass, just for the hell of it) if it's a true copy, or "based on" if it's
a modification of an existing design (even if you changed it a fair bit; this
is the real gray area), or "in the style of" if you made it up to go with a
client's decor but it looks like something one of those artists might have
done.

As far as using published patterns, many publishers include the rules for
"fair use" in their books. After all, these folks publish their stuff to be
used, and they know that some folks are going to sell what they make [duh!].
Dover says: "You may use the designs and illustrations for graphics and crafts
applications, free and without special permission, provided that you use no
more than four [number varies, sometimes it's 10] in the same publication or
project."

Ultimately it all boils down to: Play fair, ask for permission, give credit
where credit is due, and keep in mind how you'd feel if somebody ripped off
*your* designs that you're trying to make a living from!


Sparks
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  squirrel pattern needed
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 11:20:00 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep5.15200.0>
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In a message dated 9/3/98 5:34:10 PM, b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk wrote:

>A friend has asked me to do a suncatcher but it must have a
>squirrel or squirrels in it. I have dogs ,cats,birds.people everything
>except a squirrel.

There's one on page 51 of "Wild animals Stained Glass Pattern Book" by Connie
Clough Eaton, Dover Publications (1996) ISBN#0-486-29337-8 ($6.95). I picked
up the book at the local Borders Books.


Sparks
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From owner-glass Sat Sep  5 10:58:00 1998
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Cindy Pesonen <cpesonen@bcinternet.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Salvaged Solder
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 10:23:04 -0700 (PDT)
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I have made a practice to never throw lead or solder residue into the
garbage.  I keep an old coffee can readily available to use for lead
waste.  I once gave a can of lead scraps to an avid fisherman and later
had a guilty feeling because he was making sinkers to use in fishing in
the ocean.  After that, I have tried to maintain strict rules about
disposing of lead scraps.  I recently came across an electric solder pot
and plan to use it to melt solder to do lead castings.  Interestingly, in
the twelve plus years I have been doing stained glass, I have never quite
filled another coffee can.

I plan, however, if I do fill one that I won't use to wait until our
sanitation department declares hazardous waste time and will accept such
things as lead scraps to be disposed of in an acceptable manner.  I also
stress to my students to be responsible about disposing of lead scraps.  I
strongly believe we have an obligation to keep mother earth as prime and
pristine as possible.  Peggy

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From owner-glass Sat Sep  5 11:54:32 1998
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From: robert crane <robertcrane@thezone.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Glass for bevelling
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 15:58:41 -0230
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Could  some person enlighten me as to the type and availability of glass
for bevelling. I have attempted to bevel 1/4 house hold glass but it
seems very hard. I seem to recall that there is a glass with high lead
content which makes the glass softer. Is This correct? Anyone know the
name of it and perhaps a source? Thanks in anticipation.

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From owner-glass Sat Sep  5 13:23:00 1998
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From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, robertcrane@thezone.net
Subject: Glass for bevelling
Date: Sat,  5 Sep 1998 16:03:05, -0500
Message-ID: <199809052003.QAA07494@mime3.prodigy.com>
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>>Could  some person enlighten me as to the type and availability of 
glass
for bevelling. I have attempted to bevel 1/4 house hold glass but it
seems very hard. I seem to recall that there is a glass with high 
lead
content which makes the glass softer. Is This correct? Anyone know 
the
name of it and perhaps a source? Thanks in anticipation.<<

Right you are. Common 1/4" glass is rather hard but usable for 
beveling. Optiwhite Clear (in 5 and 6mm) lacks the greenish tint of 
common glass, is much softer, four times more expensive and is 
available at Hollander Glass outlets.

I do not know of a soft glass that matches the green tint found in 
common flint glass that most stock bevels are made from. Most 
bevelers just bite the bullet and bevel the common hard glass. At 
least it does not scratch easily which is a benefit to the customer 
if not the beveler.

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026
Interested in talking glass? Subscribe to       glass@intrastar.net
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From owner-glass Sat Sep  5 17:04:47 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: Klmxklm@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Hexacon soldering irons
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 19:21:20 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep5.152120.0>
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Klmxklm@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hi:
> I have 2 questions: First, can anyone tell me the merits (or drawbacks) of
> using the "pistol" or "hatchet" handle type of soldering iron, such as
> Hexacon?  Secondly, where can one purchase Hexacon irons retail?  Thanks!
> "Mike" Mikolajczak
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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as i understand it, the shape of the iron allows your hand to stay at a
more comfortable angle. instead of the turned in angle you normally have
to use. i've never used it though, could'nt tell you how well it
works...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Sat Sep  5 18:10:10 1998
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From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Lead and Septic Systems
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 17:43:34 -0700 (PDT)
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Not an expert:)

Having a "healthy" septic system is the key to proper maintenance of waste.
Certian "healthy" microorganisms in mill effluent do flourish when properly
maintained and monitored.

When digging for a well and septic one digs the well on the higher ground
and away from the septic as far as possible.
Unfortunately  when newcomers enter the picture it is up to them to find out
where their neighbours septic is. And not to be down stream if possible.

What is truely scary is when neighbourhoods have been built on old dump
sites, such as my brother's home. Who knows what is in there, seeping nasty
stuff into the ground.

Cindy
 
>Just because the lead goes into the septic systems doesn't mean it doesn't
>do harm. The effluent that seeps into the ground can go directly to the
>aquifer and contaminate the ground water. If you live in an area where you
>have a well I would avoid this practice. Can we hear from an expert on this
>subject (even though it may be a crappy subject for the week it is
>important)? On second thought would anyone admit to being an expert?
>
>
>Patrick
>Roses and Rainbows
>
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>
>

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From owner-glass Sat Sep  5 19:41:24 1998
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From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: Pat Kelly <pkelly@n-link.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Lead and Septic Systems
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 18:52:59 -0700
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References: <<1998Sep5.74635.0>>
Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
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Pat Kelly wrote:
> 
> Just because the lead goes into the septic systems doesn't mean it doesn't
> do harm. The effluent that seeps into the ground can go directly to the
> aquifer and contaminate the ground water. If you live in an area where you
> have a well I would avoid this practice. Can we hear from an expert on this
> subject (even though it may be a crappy subject for the week it is
> important)? On second thought would anyone admit to being an expert?
> 
> Patrick
> Roses and Rainbows
> 
> ----
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oh geez...we are building our new house and I am SO happy to have my own
studio AND land for my horses...my pasture will probably be in close
proximity to the septic tank...I am glad to know this now BEFORE I
poison my big friends BUT this sure throws a glitch in
things.......living in Idaho there sure are a lot of fisherpeople and
hunters so maybe I will check out the feasability factor of
recycling....I will ask my  builder too...his wife is also a stained
glass person....
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Subject:    German Shepard
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 22:44:51 -0400
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Hi Folks;

I hope everyone is having a safe and Happy Labor Day weekend.
Could someone tell me where I can find, a pattern for a German Shepard.

Thank you in advance,
Tim Byrnes
QM Stained Glass
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From owner-glass Mon Sep  7 07:01:59 1998
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Subject: Patterns, unicorn & prayng hands
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:29:06 EDT
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Hi,
    I am fairly new to bungi,and have just been lurking and learning, but saw
your request for a praying hands pattern.  There is one in  Judy Miller's book
called A Stained Glass Christmas.
     As for the Unicorn. there is a pattern for a unicorn's head in a book
called "the Perfect Gift, bu Janet Schrader...CKE publications.

Marilyn
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From owner-glass Mon Sep  7 09:03:14 1998
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> 
> I hope everyone is having a safe and Happy Labor Day weekend.
> Could someone tell me where I can find, a pattern for a German Shepard.
> 
> Thank you in advance,
> Tim Byrnes

Try Dragonfly software.  I'm sure they have one.  Sorry, don't 
remember their www address for sure, but I think its 
www.dragonfly.com (I hope)

Shiela

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From owner-glass Mon Sep  7 11:04:37 1998
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X-Path: cybersol.com!TWLARRY
From: TWLARRY@cybersol.com (Nordhoff, Larry)
To: BOB DUCHESNEAU <YWAH36A@prodigy.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 13:17:35 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep7.91735.0>
References: <<199809030738.DAA11606@mime3.prodigy.com>>
Organization: Trade Winds
Precedence: bulk

BOB DUCHESNEAU wrote:
> 
> >>My husband has asked that I not wash my pieces in the sink do to
> the tiny
> bits of solder that sometimes drop onto the glass.   He works at a
> company
> where they do lots of soldering.  The company found years ago that
> those
> tiny bits of solder can clog of the drains after a few years.  I make
> a lot
> of small foiled items and quite often there are tiny bits of solder
> that I
> don't see until clean up.  I usually scrub my pieces in a large
> bucket and
> then pour the water outside.  Have any of you experienced problems
> with
> solder clogging drains?   I really get tired of filling up those
> buckets!
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Cheryl<<
> 
> Now this is an interesting problem. Some thoughts:
> 
> 1. I doubt you are going to clog up your plumbing but you can check
> the trap that sinks have by code. Pull the trap and see what you have
> been trapping.
> 
> 2. Is it nice to put solder balls down your sink? Probably not and
> likely not legal if the fine print is read on the municipal code.
> 
> 3. I would rather you used the sink after removing solder balls from
> your work. Using a bucket and pouring it outside leads to lead
> contamination that I would guess is neither safe or legal. Hope you
> do not pour the waste water in the garden or an area where children
> play now or in the next XXX years.
> 
> 4. I would like to know what others think on this subject. Is there a
> balance between what is practical and safety? I for one would like to
> know.
> Hi Bob,
I don't know what would be considered safe but I just found out I have
extensive lead poisining.  I can tell you firt hand it is not pleasant
to go through and I will be in treatment for months to get rid of it.

It was also hard to detect.  I have spent thousands of dollars on tests
to find out what was causing my problems.  Finally when doctors were
still scratching their heads I had a hair analysis that read 2.70.  The
normal accaptable high is .8.  It also indicated high cadium and arsnic.
I had heavy metal tests but found they do not indicate high levels of
toxins built up in the tissue.

I worked in a can-making plant for 27yrs.  We used lead solders in the
seams till the goverment stopped it in the late 70s.  We were never
cautioned to use masks or anything like that.  I often cleaned exaust
hoods that were over the solder pots. The dust would fly all over the
place because we would use air hoses to get into the stacks.

I have lost much of the motor control to my legs,  I bloat very easy.  I
get unexplained rashes like hives.  I get tremors when on my feet too
long and my hair was falling out in gobs.

I am in Chelation Therapy.  I go weekly for and I. V. that lasts 3 1/2
to 4 hours.  I drive 1 1/2 hours to get to the location for treatment. 
I am going to request that the Company pay for it but our plant is
closed and I am on early retirement so I don't know what kind of a fight
I will have on my hands.  The treatments are $90.00 per.  I will
probably need at least 15 treatments.  My hands are black and blue from
the needles as my veins roll.  There is danger to the kidneys as they
have to carry the poison out of the system.  I have to drink only
distilled water for the duration.  I still have one cup of coffee each
morning because caffeene withdrawal gives you severe headaches.  I have
learned to like the water and don't miss the diet Pepsi I lived on
before that. That was after the full pot of Coffee. I have hopes of
regaining my legs.  I have been able to cut other medications already.
I have had 6 treatments so far.

Better day are comming,
TWLARRY

> Bob
> 
> ____
> Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026
> Interested in talking glass? Subscribe to       glass@intrastar.net
> ----
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From owner-glass Mon Sep  7 12:32:05 1998
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From: byronw@eatumup.com (Byron Wells)
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: pattern search
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:10:02 -0500
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Sounds like you need to do what I'm fixin to... I signed up for a basic
drawing course at the local college... Was pretty reasonabley priced and
will be well worth it... I do great at geometric designs with ruler,compass
etc but freehand I stink....Fortunately 99% of my business up till now has
been with geometric type panels...

Byron...
Wells Glassworks

-----Original Message-----
From: WhispyBlu@aol.com <WhispyBlu@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, September 03, 1998 4:37 PM
Subject: pattern search


>I have been to the Pattern Search on Stained Glass Biz, as well as many
other
>web sites, to no avail.  Cannot anyone direct me to a pattern for praying
>hands?  Also, a pattern for a unicorn?
>
>Many Thanks!!!!!
>
>Lu Ann <Whispy Blu@aol.com>
>----
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From owner-glass Mon Sep  7 12:53:34 1998
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From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, TWLARRY@cybersol.com
Subject: Re: Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder
Date: Mon,  7 Sep 1998 14:48:30, -0500
Message-ID: <199809071848.OAA07464@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>> Hi Bob,
I don't know what would be considered safe but I just found out I 
have
extensive lead poisining.  I can tell you firt hand it is not 
pleasant
to go through and I will be in treatment for months to get rid of it.


It was also hard to detect.  I have spent thousands of dollars on 
tests
to find out what was causing my problems.  Finally when doctors were
still scratching their heads I had a hair analysis that read 2.70.  
The
normal accaptable high is .8.  It also indicated high cadium and 
arsnic.
I had heavy metal tests but found they do not indicate high levels 
of
toxins built up in the tissue.

I worked in a can-making plant for 27yrs.  We used lead solders in 
the
seams till the goverment stopped it in the late 70s.  We were never
cautioned to use masks or anything like that.  I often cleaned 
exaust
hoods that were over the solder pots. The dust would fly all over 
the
place because we would use air hoses to get into the stacks.

I have lost much of the motor control to my legs,  I bloat very easy. 
 I
get unexplained rashes like hives.  I get tremors when on my feet 
too
long and my hair was falling out in gobs.<<

I am sorry to hear of your problems with heavy metal poisoning. Do 
you do stained glass and work with lead and solder in foil or came 
work? 

>>I am in Chelation Therapy.  I go weekly for and I. V. that lasts 3 
1/2
to 4 hours.  I drive 1 1/2 hours to get to the location for treatment.
 
I am going to request that the Company pay for it but our plant is
closed and I am on early retirement so I don't know what kind of a 
fight
I will have on my hands.  The treatments are $90.00 per.  I will
probably need at least 15 treatments.  My hands are black and blue 
from
the needles as my veins roll.  There is danger to the kidneys as 
they
have to carry the poison out of the system. <<

Allowing workers to blow out solder pot exhaust hoods with compressed 
air and no respiratory and other protection is criminal  on the part 
of management in my book. Get a lawyer and get their a**. Talk to 
OSHA too. Scream until you are satisfied. This is a great country and 
we have no need to kill our workers off. Make a big enough stink and 
your case may save others from similar problems.

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026
Interested in talking glass? Subscribe to       glass@intrastar.net
----
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From owner-glass Mon Sep  7 13:02:10 1998
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From: "Sandra I Gustafson" <SUZIEQ1@prodigy.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Pattern request.
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 13:50:18 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep7.95018.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone,

This my first on and have enjoyed all of the questions and answers.  I am
learning to work with glass and all of your tips have been greatly
appreciated.

 I have a pattern request for a mans open hands facing upwards.  I hope
someone can help me.
Thanks in advance.

Sandy
Remember: Be kind to everyone, because, everyone is having a hard time.

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From owner-glass Mon Sep  7 14:09:42 1998
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From: LuvArtGlas@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: unicorns
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:34:35 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep7.203435.0>
Precedence: bulk

Sectrum has a unicorn in their free pattern section...
Alot could be done with it.. The beast is all reared up 
on its massive hind legs:)

Suzan 
LuvArtGlas@aol.com
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From owner-glass Mon Sep  7 17:37:10 1998
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From: Beveler4@aol.com
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Glass for bevelling
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 19:49:31 EDT
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Sorry that I didn't get to your question earlier,I have been out of town for a
few weeks. The new glass that is manufactuered today is much harder to bevel
but it is just one of those things that you live with, but on the other hand
if you can find some old glass that has a yellow cast to it that is an
excellent glass for beveling, if you know anyone that refurbishes old houses
they usually just throw it away, or a window company that sells replacement
windows is another good source for this glass.It bevels fast and polishes like
butter. I personally have a small stock pile that I keep just for repair jobs
so that I can match the glass as closely as possible. I am also trying to
build up enough stock so that I can build an entry way for myself out of this
old glass, in my opinion it casts a better prism than the new
glass.Beveler4(Stan)
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From owner-glass Mon Sep  7 17:57:59 1998
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From: Carolyn Duncan <chick@cyberg8t.com>
To: newsgroup <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: hexacon soldering irons
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 16:52:30 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep7.95230.0>
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Mike  I have a 100w hatchet hexacon iron and love it.  I works very
well soldering the inside of lamps, boxes, candle holders and other
dimentional odjects.  I also find it well balanced for use in copper
foil.  The dreaded beads seem to be smoother. Carolyn
----
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From owner-glass Mon Sep  7 18:09:46 1998
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Please take me off of the list for now, Thank you
----
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From owner-glass Mon Sep  7 18:44:37 1998
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: "Nordhoff, Larry" <TWLARRY@cybersol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Wash sinks and tiny bits of solder
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 20:57:16 -0400
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References: <<1998Sep7.91735.0>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Hi Larry,

Get yourself a really good lawyer that specializes in Industrial 
Injuries.

I was hurt in an industrial accident where I fell through a ceiling,
straight down 14 feet to a concrete garage floor.  I broke my back,
crushed both heels and shattered my right ankle, also lost 2 1/2 inches
of height instantly.  That was almost 10 years ago.  I wish I had taken
the above advice.  To make a long story short, go after that
@#$$@%@%$*(^(*)(*, can company with the top guns. 

If you are soldering stained glass, make sure you use only lead free
solder, and don't do any lead work.  Their lawyers would love to get
ahold of that, claiming that was the cause of your problems.  Once your
atty. has filed suit, be prepared to be very careful, the adjusters
would love to get video tapes of you doing stuff you should not be
doing.  Anything will do, cutting the grass, loading packages, etc.  And
don't think they won't.

Make sure any settlement offer will let you still get Social Security
Disability benefits, there is a formula that the government uses.

Just a few tips to the wise, I wish I'd had.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/rainboe/




Nordhoff, Larry wrote:


> I don't know what would be considered safe but I just found out I have
> extensive lead poisining.  I can tell you firt hand it is not pleasant
> to go through and I will be in treatment for months to get rid of it.
> 
> It was also hard to detect.  I have spent thousands of dollars on tests
> to find out what was causing my problems.  Finally when doctors were
> still scratching their heads I had a hair analysis that read 2.70.  The
> normal accaptable high is .8.  It also indicated high cadium and arsnic.
> I had heavy metal tests but found they do not indicate high levels of
> toxins built up in the tissue.
> 
> I worked in a can-making plant for 27yrs.  We used lead solders in the
> seams till the goverment stopped it in the late 70s.  We were never
> cautioned to use masks or anything like that.  I often cleaned exaust
> hoods that were over the solder pots. The dust would fly all over the
> place because we would use air hoses to get into the stacks.
> 
> I have lost much of the motor control to my legs,  I bloat very easy.  I
> get unexplained rashes like hives.  I get tremors when on my feet too
> long and my hair was falling out in gobs.
> 
> I am in Chelation Therapy.  I go weekly for and I. V. that lasts 3 1/2
> to 4 hours.  I drive 1 1/2 hours to get to the location for treatment.
> I am going to request that the Company pay for it but our plant is
> closed and I am on early retirement so I don't know what kind of a fight
> I will have on my hands.  The treatments are $90.00 per.  I will
> probably need at least 15 treatments.  My hands are black and blue from
> the needles as my veins roll.  There is danger to the kidneys as they
> have to carry the poison out of the system.  I have to drink only
> distilled water for the duration.  I still have one cup of coffee each
> morning because caffeene withdrawal gives you severe headaches.  I have
> learned to like the water and don't miss the diet Pepsi I lived on
> before that. That was after the full pot of Coffee. I have hopes of
> regaining my legs.  I have been able to cut other medications already.
> I have had 6 treatments so far.
> 
> Better day are comming,
> TWLARRY
----
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 07:17:15 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: Carolyn Duncan <chick@cyberg8t.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: hexacon soldering irons
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 09:26:14 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep8.52614.0>
References: <<1998Sep7.95230.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Carolyn Duncan wrote:
> 
> Mike  I have a 100w hatchet hexacon iron and love it.  I works very
> well soldering the inside of lamps, boxes, candle holders and other
> dimentional odjects.  I also find it well balanced for use in copper
> foil.  The dreaded beads seem to be smoother. Carolyn
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


how heavy is it? and about how much did you pay?

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 08:19:20 1998
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: best tool for tapering lead came?
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 07:48:29 -0700
Message-ID: <199809081448.HAA14773@oceanus.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all.

I want to use 3/4" lead came as silhouette for some grasses in a lead came
piece I'm doing.  My plan is to taper the came from 3/4" at the base of the
came down to a narrow tip at the top of the grass blade.  

What tool would work best for this, and should I trim it down before or
after I've got the glass inserted? 

Also what tool works best for shaving the edges of lead H came around window
borders during installation?

Thanks in advance
Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
www.bungi.com/glass/igga/synergy

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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 09:20:25 1998
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Subject: gallery
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 10:27:39 -0500
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Kaye,
Finally got my films back and have send a copy to the gallery if you
want to take a look.
Nelda

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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 09:46:55 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Salvaged Solder
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:50:53 -0400
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Cindy said:

And leads for fishing line weights may not be the same mixture of alloy.

fishermen don't care what alloy is used for sinkers as long as it does =
not have so much tin that it melts at a higher temp and clogs up their =
melting pots. Bulk lead is cheap, and pure lead ingots of 1 pound each =
can be had for 50 cents to a dollar each. So if you find fishermen that =
will take the lead you will have to give it away.

One disposal you could use is your local auto repairman. They toss wheel =
weights in a bucket for recycling. fishermen often get wheel weight from =
garages.

Shooter on the other had don't want pure lead and are very particular =
about the mixture of lead to tin and antimony. Those who mold theri own =
bullets even use hardness testers to ensure the best possible bullet for =
their guns.=20

I save my scrap soulder and use it by daubing, picking it up with a hot =
iron and solder (paint) with it when I have areas where I want a lot of =
soulder.

Linda
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 12:51:32 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!jroey
From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: slumping w/ greenware
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:11:33 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep8.111133.0>
Precedence: bulk

	A friend that owns a ceramic shop is going to let me play with a
piece of greenware.  I know someone out there mentioned a while back,
using greenware for molds.  My friend said he'll fire the piece once
(bisque?) and put in three small air holes.  What else do I need to know
about slumping this way?  Do I just prime the mold (a plate mold) and go
from there?  I'm excited about trying this because if it works well, I
can get all kinds of greenware from him for molds and they are certainly
much cheaper than buying the slumping molds.

Thanks,
Jerri

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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 13:54:24 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Wash sinks and
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:27:56 +0000
Message-ID: <199809082255.SAA02308@vger.vgernet.net>
Precedence: bulk

Hi, everyone. I was concerned about the ongoing chat about lead 
poisoning and steps people were taking to combat it, so I spoke with 
Monona Rossol about what was being said here. She took a look at what 
been being said and had the following comments that I'm passing 
along. For what it's worth (a lot, I think), Monona is the Studio 
Safety person for the Guild, besides being a specialist in arts & 
crafts hygiene.

Her comments follow the >>quoted sections:


>>> Hi Bob,
> I don't know what would be considered safe but I just found out I 
> have extensive lead poisining.  I can tell you firt hand it is not 
> pleasant to go through and I will be in treatment for months to get
> rid of it. <

If it is from years in the canning factory, he will not get rid of it.  He 
may lesson symptoms, but he is carrying it in his bones.  We do turn over 
bone lead and calcium, but it is over a period of years.

And if he has had lead poisoning all these years, removing the lead is still 
going to leave him with the serious neurological deficits he describes.  The 
important question is: *when* did his overt symptoms begin?  If they did not 
begin while he was working with lead, then there is something else in 
addition to lead going on here.


> It was also hard to detect.  I have spent thousands of dollars on 
> tests to find out what was causing my problems. <


Dumb doctors.  A work history in a canning factory would have indicated lead 
was the first thing to check out.  


> Finally when doctors were still scratching their heads I had a hair 
> analysis that read 2.70.  The normal acceptable high is .8.  It also 
> indicated high cadium and arsnic. <


This is not diagnostic of lead poisoning.  If a lab in New York did hair 
tests for diagnosis of lead poisoning, they would be fined $10,000.  There are 
many reasons why hair analysis can turn up high lead without their being an 
excessive body burden.  


> I had heavy metal tests but found they do not indicate high levels of
> toxins built up in the tissue. <

There are two possibilities here:

1) he doesn't have lead poisoning; or

2)  the wrong type of doctor ordered the wrong test.  He probably would 
have an almost normal blood lead test.  What he needs instead is a lead 
chelate challenge test which flushes some lead out of the bones to give an 
indication of the body burden he's carrying.


> I worked in a can-making plant for 27yrs.  We used lead solders in 
> the seams till the goverment stopped it in the late 70s.  We were never
> cautioned to use masks or anything like that.  I often cleaned 
> exaust hoods that were over the solder pots. The dust would fly all over 
> the place because we would use air hoses to get into the stacks. <


If this means that his exposure to lead stopped almost 20 years ago, the 
symptoms should be better now.   Age could be exacerbating pre-existing 
lead-induced damage to his nervous system. Another theory is that the canning 
factory switched to solders containing cadmium.  That was common at first.


> I have lost much of the motor control to my legs,  I bloat very easy. 
> I get unexplained rashes like hives.  I get tremors when on my feet 
> too long and my hair was falling out in gobs.<<

Nah.  Something else is going on here.  Some smart person needs to walk 
through this guy's life looking at all his past and present activities, 
hobbies, gardening, lawn care, food sources, alcohol consumption, ceramic 
dishes, heating system for his house, lead paint on the walls, water sources, 
medications he takes--including recreational, herbs and natural supplements 
(lord help him), and is his wife trying to poison him.

Much of this is what a good medical history should reveal. 

Interestingly, the symptoms read more like arsenic or thallium.  Or a 
combination of chemicals.


> I am sorry to hear of your problems with heavy metal poisoning. Do 
> you do stained glass and work with lead and solder in foil or came 
> work?  <

How come he didn't answer this question?  If he is--and in his house--this 
could explain the whole thing.


>>I am in Chelation Therapy.<

If he is in chelation therapy without finding a body burden on traditional 
tests, he may be doing alternative treatment therapy.  This is very unwise 
from both a health and a legal perspective.  Chelation puts a serious stress 
on the body and if it is done alternatively without accepted diagnostic 
reasons, he has thrown away any hope of getting any kind of compensation from 
any employer.

>  I go weekly for and I. V. that lasts 3 
> 1/2 to 4 hours.  I drive 1 1/2 hours to get to the location for treatment.
> I am going to request that the Company pay for it but our plant is
> closed and I am on early retirement so I don't know what kind of a 
> fightI will have on my hands.  The treatments are $90.00 per.  I will
> probably need at least 15 treatments.  My hands are black and blue 
> from the needles as my veins roll.  There is danger to the kidneys as 
> they have to carry the poison out of the system. <<

If I ask these questions, you can be sure that lawyers for the canning 
company sure will.  And if this guy is getting alternative medicine 
chelation, he will collect nuttin'. 

> Allowing workers to blow out solder pot exhaust hoods with compressed 
> air and no respiratory and other protection is criminal  on the part 
> of management in my book. Get a lawyer and get their a**. Talk to 
> OSHA too. Scream until you are satisfied. This is a great country and 
> we have no need to kill our workers off. Make a big enough stink and 
> your case may save others from similar problems.  Bob <

Before screaming, find out for sure what the problem is.

Monona


Hope this is helpful.

Albert

Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.
A 501(c)(6) not-for-profit association
54 Cherry St., PO Box 1809, North Adams MA 01247-1809
(413) 663-5512  Fax: (413) 663-7167
_____________________________________________
Home page     http://www.igga.org/
Membership    http://www.igga.org/benefits.htm
Members' work http://igga.org/links.htm
Sources Guide http://www.igga.org/guide.htm
Guild Library http://www.aiap.com/amazon/



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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 15:45:19 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Carol Swann <seaspray@mail.island.net>
Subject: Re: best tool for tapering lead came?
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:00:00 +0100
Message-ID: <1998Sep9.000.0>
References: <<199809081448.HAA14773@oceanus.island.net>>
Precedence: bulk

OK, Carol.

Here are my suggestions.

In message <199809081448.HAA14773@oceanus.island.net>, Carol Swann
<seaspray@mail.island.net> writes
>Hi all.
>
>I want to use 3/4" lead came as silhouette for some grasses in a lead came
>piece I'm doing.  My plan is to taper the came from 3/4" at the base of the
>came down to a narrow tip at the top of the grass blade.  
>
>What tool would work best for this, and should I trim it down before or
>after I've got the glass inserted? 
>
I' shave the came after cementing.  This will give the came support and
make the whole more rigid for the use of the lead knife (at least the
one that is like a straight paint scraper)  A sharp lead knife can shave
the lead with great control.

>Also what tool works best for shaving the edges of lead H came around window
>borders during installation?
>
I use the same paint scraper sharpened and turned into a lead knife.
I just did one tonight - the lead came off in pretty curls because of
its sharpness.  This, of course, was only necessary because I built the
thing too large by a 1/2inch.  Normally, I simply bend the came leaves
together with a stopping knife, and this provides the reduction in size
I need.  Another way is to bend only one leaf in and the other out.  Put
the panel in with the bent side first.  Then when the panel is in, you
push the other leaf into the rebate space, thus giving a tight secure
fit.

Steve
-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 16:12:00 1998
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: jerri m Roey <jroey@juno.com>
Subject: Re: slumping w/ greenware
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:18:05 +0100
Message-ID: <1998Sep9.0185.0>
References: <<1998Sep8.111133.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

In message <1998Sep8.111133.0@?>, jerri m Roey <jroey@juno.com> writes
>       A friend that owns a ceramic shop is going to let me play with a
>piece of greenware.  I know someone out there mentioned a while back,
>using greenware for molds.  My friend said he'll fire the piece once
>(bisque?) and put in three small air holes.  What else do I need to know
>about slumping this way?  Do I just prime the mold (a plate mold) and go
>from there?  I'm excited about trying this because if it works well, I
>can get all kinds of greenware from him for molds and they are certainly
>much cheaper than buying the slumping molds.
>
>Thanks,
>Jerri
>
Jerri,

I use ceramic (and other material) moulds.  If greenware is the same as
bisque (and I think it is), one thing you have to be careful about is
the speed with which you take the temperature up.  Bisque ware can take
about 150 degrees C. per hour without difficulty.  It cannot take 350 C
per hour.    

Also after putting on the kiln wash, you must dry the whole, as the
ceramic material absorbs the water.  This must be done in a vented kiln
at about 150 C an hour holding at 300 C for about half an hour.  This
will ensure it is dry and does not break due to the steam pressures if
the temp is taken up quickly. 

I find that glazed ceramics can be taken up much faster (250 - 300 C) as
the glaze keeps the water out of the ceramic body.  Of course, then you
need to put the kiln wash on the heated (ca. 140 C, but no higher) mould
body, to ensure an even coating, without runs and the risk of uncoated
portions.

Bisque ware is good because it is cheap and so expendable.  But to
ensure it is not rapidly used up do these things:
- Dry the mould after any period of more than a few days without use.
- Dry the mould after putting kiln wash on it
- Drying should be at 150 C per hour or less
- Slumping and Draping should be done at initial temperature rises of
about 150 C and certainly not more than 200 C until 500 C is reached,
then the temperature can be raised much faster (around 500 C per hour),
as any water has been expelled by this time.
- Slumping seems to work better than draping with bisque ware moulds
- Draping works equally well as slumping with glazed moulds

There are lots of cheap ceramic shapes available in garage sales,
jumble, etc. which are already glazed.

Steve
-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 16:15:45 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Labor Day Fair
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:47:47 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep8.144747.0>
Precedence: bulk

Well, I've survived my first (and
perhaps my last!) outdoor arts and
crafts festival!  It was so unbearably
hot that the only impression I have
right now is that arts & crafts fairs
are HOT!  However, thanks to the =

supply lists posted here on bungi,
I didn't leave home without anything
important except the Three F's:
fly swatter, flashlight, and fork.  In
fact, we were so well prepared that
much of my stuff returned home with
masking tape labels that read:  Return
to Dani Greer or else. ;-)

Best regards,

D.
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 16:44:56 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: best tool for tapering lead came?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:21:06 +0000
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Precedence: bulk



Hi Carol   and all,

Your best trimming tool for tapering is a fairly wide chisel, but 
with a thin blade (approx 1-2 mm), of the type one scrapes off 
wall-paper with.
Three secrets:
-  You need to sharpen it to almost razor edge sharpness;
-  You do your tapering AFTER you have leaded;
-  You gently rock the chisel, with the handle inside the palm of 
your hand, and provided you have sharpened the blade sufficiently, it 
should cut through the lead like butter.

For trimming back the H-lead to fit during installation, use 
something we over here call a "surform". It looks a little bit like 
a rasp, but with holes in it to collect up all the lead bits. The 
rasp-blade (if one could call it that) is fixed outside a small 
metal casing, which fits quite snugly inside your hand.
Don't try to trim the lead with knives , scalpels or exacto knives; 
that only hacks it about to a dreadful mess (and could also be quite 
dangerous). 
Both  tools are  very very cheap and should be available 
at any small DIY merchant or super-store.

I use the plaster-chisel all the time, instead of a lead-knife, since 
I can sharpen it so much better and find I get more accurate 
lead-cuts by resting the handle inside my hand and using my body as 
a gentle weight, rather than holding a traditional lead-knife 
"sideways", as it were.

Hope this makes sense.....
Take care now
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Carol Swann wrote:
> 
> I want to use 3/4" lead came as silhouette for some grasses in a lead came
> piece I'm doing.  My plan is to taper the came from 3/4" at the base of the
> came down to a narrow tip at the top of the grass blade.  
> 
> What tool would work best for this, and should I trim it down before or
> after I've got the glass inserted? 
> 
> Also what tool works best for shaving the edges of lead H came around window
> borders during installation?
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 17:05:05 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Byron Wells <byronw@eatumup.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: pattern search
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:47:54 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep8.144754.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Byron-

You cannot go wrong taking a =

drawing class!  The very best art
in any medium begins with the
ability to draw well.  We've had =

customers ask to buy our cartoons
to frame!  And Michael and I still,
after all these years, regularly =

participate in a figure drawing class
to really stay sharp.  I would =

recommend the habit to everyone.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
----
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 17:29:18 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:alewis@vgernet.net" <alewis@vgernet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: IGGA News Memo
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:46:20 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep8.154620.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hooray, Albert and thanks
to you and Gerry both.  The
timing is marvelous since I'm
needing to print more business
cards and the old URL was a =

bit cumbersome.  Nonetheless,
I appreciate Dave and Glenna
just as much for allowing the
IGGA site to exist in the first
place.  You're all the bestest!

;-)

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
http://www.igga.org/greer/       (I love it!)
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 18:27:38 1998
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X-Path: citynet.net!khupp
From: Kathy Hupp <khupp@citynet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: gallery address
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 20:40:03 -0400
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Hi All,

I have a new hard drive, and have lost the Bungi gallery address. I
can't find Daniel's either. Can someone please post the gallery address
for me?

Thanks, Kathy
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 20:14:43 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!gmacfarland
From: gmacfarland@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 22:32:01 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep9.2321.0>
Precedence: bulk

I was given this address by jazzykid & told that there are lots of people
that are willing to share their knowledge with those less experienced. 
I was wondering if someone could help me find something. About a year ago
I saw a portable work board that you can lay out your work on & when you
are finished for that time you can close the top over your work & carry
it home from class or whatever.  I have a very small place to work in & I
had the idea that when I am finished for the day I can remove it from my
table & again have use of the table without so much hassle.  I know you
aren't supposed to use your table but that's all I have at this time.  If
anyone could help me find this item I would appreciate it greatly.  I am
also open to any suggestions.
Thanks
Gail

_____________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 20:40:55 1998
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From: Goldpaws <gmanning@banet.net>
To: Kathy Hupp <khupp@citynet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: gallery address
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 22:40:06 -0400
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Precedence: bulk

Gallery address: http://csg.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/glass/gallery
Beautiful work shown there!!
Goldpaws

Kathy Hupp wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I have a new hard drive, and have lost the Bungi gallery address. I
> can't find Daniel's either. Can someone please post the gallery address
> for me?
>
> Thanks, Kathy
> ----
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From: Carolyn Duncan <chick@cyberg8t.com>
To: newsgroup <glass@bungi.com>
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Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 20:07:54 -0700
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Mike  My iron is very light.  It is about the thickness of my index
finger.  I chose that over the 150w for that very reason.  I bought it
at the Las Vegas Glass Expo., so I got a good price.  About $82
including stand.  Well worth the price. Carolyn
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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 21:07:16 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "Kathy Hupp" <khupp@citynet.net>, "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: gallery address
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 98 23:08:52 -0400
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>Hi All,
>
>I have a new hard drive, and have lost the Bungi gallery address. I
>can't find Daniel's either. Can someone please post the gallery address
>for me?

Hi Kathy,

Here's the instructions from Daniel to post to the gallery.
Suzanne


Hi SGers,

Well, I believe there is enough interest to start the project off the
ground. My goal is to make the gallery as automatic as possible in
order to allow anybody who wants to add a photo to make it as easy and
simple as possible. I will not worry anybody with the details for the
time being. 

I'd like to start with a small prototype. I'd like to receive around
10 images for this first stage. If you have one you want to include,
please do the following:

1. Fill in the form underneath.
2. Attach an image of the figure. Please, try to save it as a JPEG
file, it will be smaller. Send it at a decent "displayable"
resolution. Lets say, approx. 500 pixels in size. 
3. Send the message to "dmg@aries27.uwaterloo.ca"


Thanks a lot!



dmg

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Artist's Name: 
Artist's URL: 
Title:
Year:
Description:
Other:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Instructions:

You can use several lines for each field. The URL might be left empty
if you don't have a home page. If you think that there is some other
information necessary, please let me know. If you want, you can use
HTML code for any of the fields.

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From owner-glass Tue Sep  8 21:23:14 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: gmacfarland@juno.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 23:32:30 -0400
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gmacfarland@juno.com wrote:
> 
> I was given this address by jazzykid & told that there are lots of people
> that are willing to share their knowledge with those less experienced.
> I was wondering if someone could help me find something. About a year ago
> I saw a portable work board that you can lay out your work on & when you
> are finished for that time you can close the top over your work & carry
> it home from class or whatever.  I have a very small place to work in & I
> had the idea that when I am finished for the day I can remove it from my
> table & again have use of the table without so much hassle.  I know you
> aren't supposed to use your table but that's all I have at this time.  If
> anyone could help me find this item I would appreciate it greatly.  I am
> also open to any suggestions.
> Thanks
> Gail
> 
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


 i think morton makes that thing, i think it's called "the portable
glass shop" or something like that. if it's not morton, then it's emrald
rainbow (i think that's it's name). i wonder if inland has something
like that.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 03:48:57 1998
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
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Subject: Squirrrel-I have great pic
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 06:09:36 -0400
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I forget who wanted the squirrel but in the lastest issue of Progressive =
Farmer there is a great full page shot of s squirrel sitting profile, =
bushy tail and all. If it's what you want, I can snail mail it to you or =
scan and sent jpeg or gif.

Linda Campbell
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 06:22:07 1998
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X-Path: csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca!dmg
From: "Daniel M. German" <dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Lurking, gallery and others.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 08:57:56 -0400
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Hi everybody,

For some time I have been passively lurking, while my live has been
having dramatic changes. September has been bringing me back to my
usual routine and I hope I can contribute more often than I had. 

I still have photos from two people, I believe that I have not been
able to put up into the gallery. I apologize to them and I will
correct that problem ASAP. 

Besides, please notice that the email submission address is no longer
dmg@aries17.uwaterloo.ca, but dmorales@se.uwaterloo.ca. The new
address is in the instructions in the gallery at:

http://csg.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/glass/gallery

Best regards,



--
Daniel M. German
http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html
dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca

 
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 08:25:24 1998
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From: TWLARRY@cybersol.com (Nordhoff, Larry)
To: Albert Lewis <alewis@vgernet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: I feel like I've been drawn and quartered.
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 10:32:55 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep9.63255.0>
References: <<199809082255.SAA02308@vger.vgernet.net>>
Organization: Trade Winds
Precedence: bulk

Hi Albert,
When I posted my problems to the group I did not expect to be drawn and
quartered in this manner.  I will now try to set the record straight. I
worked in a can plant not a canning factory.  We had 8 solder lines in
the plant.  The plant made millions of cans a day.  When on clean up I
was responsible for cleaning 2 of those lines each night after 2 shifts
of production.

I work with stained glass but only to fuse or use in a torch.  

Your so-called safety pro needs to go back to school.  The accuracy of
hair analysis was challenged in January of 1985 and was determined to be
a reliable indicator of essential and toxic elements and minerals in the
body as a whole.  Chelation therapy is approved by the FDA for removal
of heavy metals.

Not that it is any of your business but for the record I do not drink,
have never taken recreational drugs,and I quit smoking some 20 years
ago.

>From the reports,  the lead in my system prevents my body from
assimulating essentual minerals.  Lack of those minerals do indeed cause
the problems I am experiencing.

I have had problems with my legs for more than 11 years.  They only
became more accute in the last two.  I have been told by a reliable
source that lead can be silent in the body for many years until some
traumatic experience (plant closing) will cause a myriad of problems.

I have been under the care of a neurologist for the past two years.  An
EMG shows a neuropithy in the legs.  Heavy metal tests  show arsenic. 
Blood will only show current levels in your system(not what is already
in tissue).

I would urge anyone that suspects lead poisoning to get a hair analysis.

I don't want this group to become wrapped up in a health discussion. 
Any further comments should be off line. I will not address the group
again.

Thanks to all that showed concern for my well-being.

TWLARRY



Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> Hi, everyone. I was concerned about the ongoing chat about lead
> poisoning and steps people were taking to combat it, so I spoke with
> Monona Rossol about what was being said here. She took a look at what
> been being said and had the following comments that I'm passing
> along. For what it's worth (a lot, I think), Monona is the Studio
> Safety person for the Guild, besides being a specialist in arts &
> crafts hygiene.
> 
> Her comments follow the >>quoted sections:
> 
> >>> Hi Bob,
> > I don't know what would be considered safe but I just found out I
> > have extensive lead poisining.  I can tell you firt hand it is not
> > pleasant to go through and I will be in treatment for months to get
> > rid of it. <
> 
> If it is from years in the canning factory, he will not get rid of it.  He
> may lesson symptoms, but he is carrying it in his bones.  We do turn over
> bone lead and calcium, but it is over a period of years.
> 
> And if he has had lead poisoning all these years, removing the lead is still
> going to leave him with the serious neurological deficits he describes.  The
> important question is: *when* did his overt symptoms begin?  If they did not
> begin while he was working with lead, then there is something else in
> addition to lead going on here.
> 
> > It was also hard to detect.  I have spent thousands of dollars on
> > tests to find out what was causing my problems. <
> 
> Dumb doctors.  A work history in a canning factory would have indicated lead
> was the first thing to check out.
> 
> > Finally when doctors were still scratching their heads I had a hair
> > analysis that read 2.70.  The normal acceptable high is .8.  It also
> > indicated high cadium and arsnic. <
> 
> This is not diagnostic of lead poisoning.  If a lab in New York did hair
> tests for diagnosis of lead poisoning, they would be fined $10,000.  There are
> many reasons why hair analysis can turn up high lead without their being an
> excessive body burden.
> 
> > I had heavy metal tests but found they do not indicate high levels of
> > toxins built up in the tissue. <
> 
> There are two possibilities here:
> 
> 1) he doesn't have lead poisoning; or
> 
> 2)  the wrong type of doctor ordered the wrong test.  He probably would
> have an almost normal blood lead test.  What he needs instead is a lead
> chelate challenge test which flushes some lead out of the bones to give an
> indication of the body burden he's carrying.
> 
> > I worked in a can-making plant for 27yrs.  We used lead solders in
> > the seams till the goverment stopped it in the late 70s.  We were never
> > cautioned to use masks or anything like that.  I often cleaned
> > exaust hoods that were over the solder pots. The dust would fly all over
> > the place because we would use air hoses to get into the stacks. <
> 
> If this means that his exposure to lead stopped almost 20 years ago, the
> symptoms should be better now.   Age could be exacerbating pre-existing
> lead-induced damage to his nervous system. Another theory is that the canning
> factory switched to solders containing cadmium.  That was common at first.
> 
> > I have lost much of the motor control to my legs,  I bloat very easy.
> > I get unexplained rashes like hives.  I get tremors when on my feet
> > too long and my hair was falling out in gobs.<<
> 
> Nah.  Something else is going on here.  Some smart person needs to walk
> through this guy's life looking at all his past and present activities,
> hobbies, gardening, lawn care, food sources, alcohol consumption, ceramic
> dishes, heating system for his house, lead paint on the walls, water sources,
> medications he takes--including recreational, herbs and natural supplements
> (lord help him), and is his wife trying to poison him.
> 
> Much of this is what a good medical history should reveal.
> 
> Interestingly, the symptoms read more like arsenic or thallium.  Or a
> combination of chemicals.
> 
> > I am sorry to hear of your problems with heavy metal poisoning. Do
> > you do stained glass and work with lead and solder in foil or came
> > work?  <
> 
> How come he didn't answer this question?  If he is--and in his house--this
> could explain the whole thing.
> 
> >>I am in Chelation Therapy.<
> 
> If he is in chelation therapy without finding a body burden on traditional
> tests, he may be doing alternative treatment therapy.  This is very unwise
> from both a health and a legal perspective.  Chelation puts a serious stress
> on the body and if it is done alternatively without accepted diagnostic
> reasons, he has thrown away any hope of getting any kind of compensation from
> any employer.
> 
> >  I go weekly for and I. V. that lasts 3
> > 1/2 to 4 hours.  I drive 1 1/2 hours to get to the location for treatment.
> > I am going to request that the Company pay for it but our plant is
> > closed and I am on early retirement so I don't know what kind of a
> > fightI will have on my hands.  The treatments are $90.00 per.  I will
> > probably need at least 15 treatments.  My hands are black and blue
> > from the needles as my veins roll.  There is danger to the kidneys as
> > they have to carry the poison out of the system. <<
> 
> If I ask these questions, you can be sure that lawyers for the canning
> company sure will.  And if this guy is getting alternative medicine
> chelation, he will collect nuttin'.
> 
> > Allowing workers to blow out solder pot exhaust hoods with compressed
> > air and no respiratory and other protection is criminal  on the part
> > of management in my book. Get a lawyer and get their a**. Talk to
> > OSHA too. Scream until you are satisfied. This is a great country and
> > we have no need to kill our workers off. Make a big enough stink and
> > your case may save others from similar problems.  Bob <
> 
> Before screaming, find out for sure what the problem is.
> 
> Monona
> 
> Hope this is helpful.
> 
> Albert
> 
> Albert Lewis, Executive Director
> International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.
> A 501(c)(6) not-for-profit association
> 54 Cherry St., PO Box 1809, North Adams MA 01247-1809
> (413) 663-5512  Fax: (413) 663-7167
> _____________________________________________
> Home page     http://www.igga.org/
> Membership    http://www.igga.org/benefits.htm
> Members' work http://igga.org/links.htm
> Sources Guide http://www.igga.org/guide.htm
> Guild Library http://www.aiap.com/amazon/
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 08:56:25 1998
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Labor Day Fair
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 08:23:19 -0700
Message-ID: <199809091523.IAA30586@oceanus.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Dani,

Summer fairs are indeed HOT!  One of the adavantages to being a glass artist
is that it's usually possible to cajole the organizers into providing power
to the booth so that lamps are properly displayed (I always do one
spectacular lamp for this reason)...which brings me to the 4th F...a fan!!!
It attracts customers and keeps them in the booth too...and the longer they
stay, the more likely they are to buy, or at least pick up a card and
remember the work.

By the way, I'm curious...the 2nd F a flashlight??? 

And being well prepared is a good thing, particularly if you're running a
booth alone.  I find that by having a lot of stuff to loan (taped or not) I
feel comfortable calling on surrounding booths for help in hanging tarps at
night and other things that take more than 2 hands during set up and tear
down.   It's a good thing to be able to be a resource like that.

And I do find indoor shows to be much less stressful, even if they are out
of town to boot, basically because they are cooler.

Hope you sold lots!!

Later



>Well, I've survived my first (and
>perhaps my last!) outdoor arts and
>crafts festival!  It was so unbearably
>hot that the only impression I have
>right now is that arts & crafts fairs
>are HOT!  However, thanks to the =
>
>supply lists posted here on bungi,
>I didn't leave home without anything
>important except the Three F's:
>fly swatter, flashlight, and fork.  In
>fact, we were so well prepared that
>much of my stuff returned home with
>masking tape labels that read:  Return
>to Dani Greer or else. ;-)
>
>Best regards,
>
>D.
>Greer Gallery & Studios
>----
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>
>

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
www.bungi.com/glass/igga/synergy

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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 10:23:07 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: I feel like I've been drawn and quartered.
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:46:25 +0000
Message-ID: <199809091814.OAA26165@vger.vgernet.net>
Precedence: bulk


> When I posted my problems to the group I did not expect to be drawn and
> quartered in this manner. 

I'm sorry you feel that way, Larry. Monona didn't mean that, I'm 
sure. She's very blunt, no doubt about that, but her heart is on your 
side, not against you.

Monona spends *all of her time working with artists, craftspeople and 
theater people to see that they're protected from the materials they 
use and from the environment they have to work in. Most of the time 
she puts in as a hygienist is donated to the nonprofit organization 
called "Arts, Crafts, & Theater Safety," although quite often 
companies, states and sometimes countries call her in to see that 
their employees, artists and artisans are properly protected 
healthwise.

I passed her comments along because she's knowledgeable and informed, 
so if I were you, I'd overlook her bluntness and dig out the facts 
she lists. Hair analysis, for instance, is suspect. The rest is 
there. If you have additional questions about lead poisoning or any 
other materials used in a studio environment, Monona fields questions 
like that for free and will answer them personally. I urge you to 
take advantage of what she has to say.  She can be contacted 
personally at acts@caseweb.com


> I don't want this group to become wrapped up in a health discussion. 
> Any further comments should be off line. I will not address the group
> again.

Well, I think this group is a perfect place to discuss health issues 
in connection with working with glass. Am I alone in this thought?

Albert
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 11:21:25 1998
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: jerri m Roey <jroey@juno.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: slumping w/ greenware
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:17:57 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1998Sep9.31757.0>
References: <<1998Sep8.111133.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Jerri:  Let us know what happens with your slumping activity.  I
understand you can slump with bisque as long as you apply the kiln wash
and let it dry first.  Peggy

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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 12:21:59 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: best tool for tapering lead came?
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:46:55 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep9.104655.0>
Precedence: bulk

We use a block plane BEFORE
leading the window.  Works best
with long runs of lead - holding
the stretched lead in one hand,
plane away from you and toward
the narrowest end of the taper.
Work each leaf until you get the
taper you want on one side, then
flip the lead and taper the other
pair of leaves.  That's probably
about as clear as mud!  Good =

luck.

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
http://www.igga.org/greer/ =

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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 14:19:55 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Albert Lewis <alewis@vgernet.net>
Subject: Re: I feel like I've been drawn and quartered.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:46:29 +0100
Message-ID: <1998Sep9.214629.0>
References: <<199809091814.OAA26165@vger.vgernet.net>>
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In message <199809091814.OAA26165@vger.vgernet.net>, Albert Lewis
<alewis@vgernet.net> writes
>
>> I don't want this group to become wrapped up in a health discussion. 
>> Any further comments should be off line. I will not address the group
>> again.
>
>Well, I think this group is a perfect place to discuss health issues 
>in connection with working with glass. Am I alone in this thought?
>
>Albert

No, Albert you are not alone.  The health issues in working with the
materials used in stained glass are important for all workers at what
ever level.  It is important to keep these issues at the front of our
minds so we can work safely.
steve

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 14:50:30 1998
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Subject: praying hands pattern
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 21:53:47 +0100
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Cant remember if I saw a response to someones request for a praying hands
pattern, but I was given this url for one recently -
http://huizen.dds.nl/~chr2/clipart.htm
Elizabeth
Bournemouth Stained Glass
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 16:46:45 1998
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From: Gary Schroeder <garys@ameritech.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: "drawn and quartered"
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 19:34:14 -0400
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Albert,

For what its worth I whole heartedly agree with you. Safety must be kept
in the forefront of our actions. Injuries to ourselves and to others can
be very painful and not to mention costly.

I found Monona's comments very informative. Please don't hesitate to
breech the subject of safety again. I for one thank you for your efforts

Gary
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 17:46:58 1998
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To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Health Issues and Glass
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 19:53:18 -0400
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I think a good discussion on the dangers and precautions of working with
lead and glass would be an excellent subject.  My own reasons may be
selfish, as I'm an 8 year survivor of lung cancer and didn't realize by
grinding glass that I was inhaling dust.  I believe it was on Bungi that
someone mentioned the fact and now I use a mask while grinding.  The
instructors and owner of the studio where I get my supplies do not take
any precautions with lead, as they eat, drink, and smoke while soldering
and also with no exhaust system in place for the fumes.  I would like to
know if the throwaway masks are as effective as the more cumbersome ones
when grinding.  Be happy to hear any and all opinions on that one.

Carol T

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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 18:20:45 1998
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Subject: Re: I feel like I've been drawn and quartered.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:37:48 EDT
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In a message dated 9/9/98 5:20:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, s.richard@verrier-
scotland.demon.co.uk writes:

<< No, Albert you are not alone.  The health issues in working with the
 materials used in stained glass are important for all workers at what
 ever level.  It is important to keep these issues at the front of our
 minds so we can work safely. >>

I also agree.  Until I read of the danger in doing so, I always smoked while
soldering (the two seemed like a natural - me and my iron, smoking away!)  I
have since stopped and always wash my hands before taking a break for a smoke.
Never realized before that the lead residue could be ingested.  I'm also more
conscious of the glass grit, both in the air and down the drain, because of
discussions here.  I'm sure there are other health related areas that will
come up for debate in the future that will further educate me and I welcome
it.

Brenda Marhon
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 18:41:01 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: "drawn and quartered"
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Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:54:59 +0000
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> For what its worth I whole heartedly agree with you. Safety must be kept
> in the forefront of our actions. Injuries to ourselves and to others can
> be very painful and not to mention costly.

Thanks, Gary. I'm sorry if discussing it was problematic for some, 
but I thought it was an open question and that it was already being 
discussed. Personally, I think there's lots of nay-saying going on in 
regard to glassworkers' health and exposure (always has been) and 
that any and all information about it is helpful.

Albert
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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 21:23:43 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Artist needs help
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 22:27:22 -0500
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One of our fellow bungarians (Susan Bloch-Welliver, bio #17)  wrote me this
short bio. But it struck me that instead of a bio it is a request for
assistance in case it is needed. Contact her directly if you can help
BlochStudio@EarthCorp.com

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Hi,
I am also a glass artist.  I read your bio with interest sometime ago.  I
was on the list but seem to have been disconnected when I had problems with
my server.

I live in Elmira, NY & have just finished a commission that my husband and I
were to install in Boca Raton.
I was to be leaving in a couple of weeks to go to Florida.  Within the last
3 weeks, my mother came down with cancer
and it's been snowballing.  It started with a tiny lump that wasn't supposed
to be cancer. Then it was self contained. Then a lumpectomy. Then a
mastectomy and she was to just be dealing with phsycial therapy. Now it
seems it's
in her lymph nodes and she's beginning chemotherapy and other treatment.
I'm planning to go be with her in NJ as soon as I finish packing the glass
for shipping.  My husband has arranged to go with as friend to install the
window.
Neither of them are glass artists.  I'm hoping there's a way I can stay with
my mother rather than go.

I'm looking for a glass artist in the vicinity of the installation that my
husband can hire in the case of a problem.

I'm wondering if you have any experience with replacing broken glass in a
stained glass window in case it arrives
damaged in any way.  If not, can you recommend anyone?
If need be, I will go to Florida to do this, but if I could find someone
competent it would be much more helpful.

If you feel this is something you can do, great.
If not, that's ok, too.  I'm sure there must be someone around there that
could help if need be.

Thank you for your time.

Susan Bloch-Welliver

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 21:41:11 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Drawn and Quartered & stuff
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 22:56:24 -0500
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Safety is paramount in any endeavor, especially in an art form where there
is no real regulation except on a commercial scale. Would anyone work as a
glassblower without gloves? A welder without a mask? A (American)football
player without a helmet? A boxer without a mouthpiece? A doctor or nurse
without rubber gloves? I don't think so. Precautions are a nuisance but are
necessary if you want to live and create another day.

Recently I found out that an excellent woodworker with whom I am acquainted
had cut off numerous fingers on a wood shaper. The irony is that he created
quite a fuss a while ago when the manager of the craft shop insisted he
follow the safety rules and he objected. He took his objection to the
manager's boss with whom he had been friends with for years. The boss waived
the safety rules for him and the manager became gun shy trying to supervise
his activities. Bottom line ....  a law suit is now pending, he is no longer
capable of doing wonderful work, he is in constant pain, and can't work. The
boss is deep trouble (may lose his job) for not backing up the manager. I'm
sure that there are a million such stories that anyone can tell this one
just happened to be on my mind before I read the post about lead poisoning.

All right, now I can get off the soapbox. Except for one more statement ...
Be careful, how else can I receive the bios to post and keep that "Hound of
the Baskerviles" off my butt. Speaking of bios I am down to one. Send them
to me, or no amount of safety can keep that gray and white devil off of
e.( hello Toby .... nice doggy)


Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Wed Sep  9 23:28:14 1998
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Dear Susan,

I'm so sorry to hear about your mother.  I hope she gets past this hurdle
quickly and regains her health very soon.

Susie
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 04:57:04 1998
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Subject: Susan Bloch-welliver
Date: Thu Sep 10 04:09:34 1998
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susan
i live in cincinnati, but if you cannot find someone to help your husband,
i will go
i own my own studio and can close for a few days to help out
i am a six time cancer survivor (one being breast cancer) and understand
the trauma you are going through--tell your mom to believe in mind over
matter (works wonders)

positive attitude and keeping her energy up is the most important thing--no
amount of treatment can help without those two things--

good luck
i can be reached tues thru fri from 10am to 7pm at (513) 231-0082  --- i am
leaving tonight for a show in ky, but my cell phone number is 513-658-4762

let me know when we're going
thanx
debbie taylor

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 05:31:38 1998
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From: "Gerard" <harlquin@mpx.com.au>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: re: slumping and greenware
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:29:45 +1000
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I have done some experiments some time ago with slumping. I succesfully used
some old fluted plates (ex salvation army store). got the glaze off by
sandblasting and then applied the wash. no problems with those. Also used
stainless steel bowls (i soon found out that you can only drape over the
metal moulds because of the contraction on cooling). Also used greenware
pieces and terracota pots (none of them had any vent holes etc..) I beleive
pottery has to be fired slowly but no other precautions seemed necessary.
Harlequin
www.surf.to/harlquin
discussion board at
http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb131394

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 05:42:04 1998
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Health Issues and Glass
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 07:43:31 -0400
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I thought that when you used water in your grinder that it kept all =
airborne dust down.  That's one reason I use lots of water. Am I in =
error?


Linda Campbell

----------
From: =09

I would like to
know if the throwaway masks are as effective as the more cumbersome ones
when grinding.  Be happy to hear any and all opinions on that one.

Carol T

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 06:01:16 1998
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From: "Vic LaGreca" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Automatic solder dispenser
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 07:57:32 -0400
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I have read the health thread with interest since I smoke and solder all
the time.  

While at Warner Crivellero, where I met Laverne of this group, I questioned
the Rep. from Weller as to when they would develop an automatic sodder
dispenser.  He said that they have tried but had not found a way to create
an effective way to do it.  

On the other hand, I have one that I purchased from a local electronics
store which I have used for years for spot welding and the construction of
"ham radio" related gear.  It works great for this application as a third
hand. I tried once to run a bead on copper foil but found it difficult,
sloppy and inconsistent.  Since my current dispenser has gotten old and
sloppy I may purchase another to try for glass work.  If I recall
correctly, they run about $20-$25 and are affordable for most people.

Has anyone here used one with good results?

Ciao

Vic LaGreca, SIOR, CCIM

PS:  To Laverne if she is lurking, or I am missing her, please Email me, or
call me if you still have my card.

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 06:31:24 1998
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Susan Bloch-welliver
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:28:24 -0400
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Just a lurker here but what a wonderful, unselfish person you are.

Linda

----------
From: 	daver!one.net!kleeman[SMTP:daver!one.net!kleeman]
Sent: 	Thursday, September 10, 1998 12:09 AM
To: 	glass@bungi.com
Subject: 	Susan Bloch-welliver

susan
i live in cincinnati, but if you cannot find someone to help your husband,
i will go
i own my own studio and can close for a few days to help out
i am a six time cancer survivor (one being breast cancer) and understand
the trauma you are going through--tell your mom to believe in mind over
matter (works wonders)

positive attitude and keeping her energy up is the most important thing--no
amount of treatment can help without those two things--

good luck
i can be reached tues thru fri from 10am to 7pm at (513) 231-0082  --- i am
leaving tonight for a show in ky, but my cell phone number is 513-658-4762

let me know when we're going
thanx
debbie taylor

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 07:27:56 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: re: slumping and greenware
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:47:55 +0000
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> metal moulds because of the contraction on cooling). Also used greenware
> pieces and terracota pots (none of them had any vent holes etc..)

Yes, I would agree that vent holes in the greenware are unnecessary. 
The potter's used to having to allow for the escape of both physical 
and molecular water during firiing, but that won't be a problem with 
glass. If you slump over a form that has vent holes, you'll get at 
least a dimple (or actually more of a "mole") at the location of each 
vent hole. At higher temperatures, the glass will begin to creep into 
the hole and you'll get a fine, everlastingly permanent bond between 
the glass and its mold. <s>

Get the greenware molds *without vent holes and you'll be fine.

Albert
(who's been a potter of the old school and a glassmaker of the new)
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 07:45:12 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: mea culpa
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Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:47:55 +0000
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By the way ...

Since a couple of months ago (or more) I was roundly chastised for 
posting IGGA announcements in this forum, I tweaked the software that 
generates them to eliminate it from from the autolist those 
announcements are sent to.

I added a graphic for bungi.com to the Guild's new web site at
http://www.igga.org/
and hope others find this group as helpful and friendly as I have.

The notification that the Guild's site had moved wasn't sent to this 
group, although several regular contributors to the group already 
have received it. Just so ya know. <s>

Albert
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 07:59:34 1998
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X-Path: aracnet.net!bigcreek
From: Wayne Parks <bigcreek@aracnet.net>
To: Vic LaGreca <vlg@worldnet.att.net>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-UNICODE-2-0-UTF-7
Subject: Re: Web Site
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:49:43 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep10.54943.0>
References: <<19980910115414.YLRF17133@vic>>
Organization: Big Creek Studio
Precedence: bulk

Hi All:
Just put up a home page and thought that some may be interested.
http://home.talkcity.com/PicassoPl/camerashy/

Now I will go back to my lurking !!

Wayne Parks
Big Creek Studio
bigcreek@aracnet.net

"To bring the dead to life
Is no great magic.
Few are wholly dead:
Blow on a dead mans embers
And a live flame will start."
                      Robert Graves
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 08:32:08 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Automatic solder dispenser
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:27:08 -0400
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References: <<19980910115414.YLRF17133@vic>>
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Vic LaGreca wrote:
> 
> I have read the health thread with interest since I smoke and solder all
> the time.
> 
> While at Warner Crivellero, where I met Laverne of this group, I questioned
> the Rep. from Weller as to when they would develop an automatic sodder
> dispenser.  He said that they have tried but had not found a way to create
> an effective way to do it.
> 
> On the other hand, I have one that I purchased from a local electronics
> store which I have used for years for spot welding and the construction of
> "ham radio" related gear.  It works great for this application as a third
> hand. I tried once to run a bead on copper foil but found it difficult,
> sloppy and inconsistent.  Since my current dispenser has gotten old and
> sloppy I may purchase another to try for glass work.  If I recall
> correctly, they run about $20-$25 and are affordable for most people.
> 
> Has anyone here used one with good results?
> 
> Ciao
> 
> Vic LaGreca, SIOR, CCIM
> 
> PS:  To Laverne if she is lurking, or I am missing her, please Email me, or
> call me if you still have my card.
> 
> ----
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if i had to guess, the iron probably is'nt hot enough to flow out enough
solder and heat up the copper around it. if it was real hot it would
melt the solder coming into it, before having a chance to go through the
little hole. 

i personally would'nt mind one, it would make soldering in chain in a
box better. along with other tasks where a few more hands is needed.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 09:30:11 1998
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: Health Issues and Glass
Date: Thu Sep 10 08:19:48 1998
Message-ID: <1998Sep11.55548.0>
Precedence: bulk

There are disposable masks that will keep you from inhaling lead.
They should not be confused with the cheap disposable you see in Home
Depot.  
I think someone mentioned that to stop lead particles the mask had to
filter at least 3 microns and up, but I could be wrong.
You may want to E-mail OSHA (boo hiss) and ask them for info.

I would also find another studio. If they care that little about
themselves how concerned can they be about you?

Vic

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Carol Tombro [mailto:ctombro@InfoAve.Net]
		Sent:	Wednesday, September 09, 1998 7:53 PM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	Health Issues and Glass

		I think a good discussion on the dangers and precautions
of working with
		lead and glass would be an excellent subject.  My own
reasons may be
		selfish, as I'm an 8 year survivor of lung cancer and
didn't realize by
		grinding glass that I was inhaling dust.  I believe it
was on Bungi that
		someone mentioned the fact and now I use a mask while
grinding.  The
		instructors and owner of the studio where I get my
supplies do not take
		any precautions with lead, as they eat, drink, and smoke
while soldering
		and also with no exhaust system in place for the fumes.
I would like to
		know if the throwaway masks are as effective as the more
cumbersome ones
		when grinding.  Be happy to hear any and all opinions on
that one.

		Carol T

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 10:02:29 1998
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X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Drawn and Quartered & stuff
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:48:58 +0000
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Precedence: bulk

.... Sniff.snuffle, snuffle, SNORT!
Did someone mention  I R I S H Stew!?
Sniff, sniff! 
Bios?? What's that??
Much prefer a bit of Irish leg to Bios.
Pant, pant, pant!!   grrrr!  I can smell it from Here!
Let me have it!  grrrr!  Or was it Irish butt?
Toby  aka Baskerville

Someone called Irish butt wrote:
> Be careful, how else can I receive the bios to post and keep that "Hound of
> the Baskerviles" off my butt. Speaking of bios I am down to one. Send them
> to me, or no amount of safety can keep that gray and white devil off of
> e.( hello Toby .... nice doggy)
> 

> 
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 10:31:16 1998
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: Drawn and Quartered & stuff
Date: Thu Sep 10 08:54:22 1998
Message-ID: <1998Sep11.63022.0>
Precedence: bulk

I agree safety is a paramount concern. Second guessing medical treatment
isn't.
The second point is what I think was objectionable. 

Vic

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Pat Kelly [mailto:pkelly@n-link.com]
		Sent:	Wednesday, September 09, 1998 11:56 PM
		To:	glass bungi line
		Subject:	Re: Drawn and Quartered & stuff

		Safety is paramount in any endeavor, especially in an
art form where there
		is no real regulation except on a commercial scale.
Would anyone work as a
		glassblower without gloves? A welder without a mask? A
(American)football
		player without a helmet? A boxer without a mouthpiece? A
doctor or nurse
		without rubber gloves? I don't think so. Precautions are
a nuisance but are
		necessary if you want to live and create another day.

		Recently I found out that an excellent woodworker with
whom I am acquainted
		had cut off numerous fingers on a wood shaper. The irony
is that he created
		quite a fuss a while ago when the manager of the craft
shop insisted he
		follow the safety rules and he objected. He took his
objection to the
		manager's boss with whom he had been friends with for
years. The boss waived
		the safety rules for him and the manager became gun shy
trying to supervise
		his activities. Bottom line ....  a law suit is now
pending, he is no longer
		capable of doing wonderful work, he is in constant pain,
and can't work. The
		boss is deep trouble (may lose his job) for not backing
up the manager. I'm
		sure that there are a million such stories that anyone
can tell this one
		just happened to be on my mind before I read the post
about lead poisoning.

		All right, now I can get off the soapbox. Except for one
more statement ...
		Be careful, how else can I receive the bios to post and
keep that "Hound of
		the Baskerviles" off my butt. Speaking of bios I am down
to one. Send them
		to me, or no amount of safety can keep that gray and
white devil off of
		e.( hello Toby .... nice doggy)


		Patrick
		Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 10:56:53 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr
From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: all we are is glass dust in the wind......
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:59:12 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep10.165912.0>
Precedence: bulk

Regarding the use of water to keep the dust down, next time you grind look
carefully at your clothes and skin, notice the glittery coating?   If it all
over the outside of you, it must be inside too!  (The water cools the grinder
head and splashes glass laden water onto you too)

Glad to see the health related issued discussed here.   

You guys are great.

Pat   
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 11:37:42 1998
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From: crclark@swbell.net
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: I feel like I've been drawn and quartered.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:34:06 -0700
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The poster was not refering to the health information but to the rude
way it was presented! I agree with him, it was rude. 
Thx.
C.

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 13:10:34 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: I feel like I've been drawn and quartered.
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:13:50 +0000
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> The poster was not refering to the health information but to the rude
> way it was presented! I agree with him, it was rude. 

Again, my apologies for Monona's bluntness. You should hear her in a 
public presentation. Scary. No nonsense. No patpatpat on the back.

At the same time, her motivation is absolutely focused on the health 
of artists and craftspeople and she makes no bones about that. 
Manufacturers, distributors and retailers do not like her. Those 
who've met her, despite the bald, loud, hectoring tone of her 
lectures, know she loves them all, each and every one, and like a 
good mother, gives it to them right between the eyes if they're 
feeling comfortable (or lazy) about their health.

And that's the way it is.

Albert
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 13:31:02 1998
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: CncptThnkr@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: all we are is glass dust in the wind......
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:10:40 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep10.111040.0>
References: <<1998Sep10.165912.0>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

As far as I can tell, the very small glass dust that would be harmful
for lungs is trapped in the water (My Diamond Max grinder may work
different) The larger chips are too heavy to breath, and splash all
over.  But Yes, a special respirator would be the safest way to go.  I
can't stand wearing one, so only use it for the most critical
applications.  (sifting casting investment plaster, working with acids,
etc.)  I cast gold and silver also, and most of that work is far more
dangerous.  

One thing we all should do, is take a shower and wash your hair after
every studio session.  My hair gets washed a lot. :-) 

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
 http://www.igga.org/rainboe/ 

CncptThnkr@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Regarding the use of water to keep the dust down, next time you grind look
> carefully at your clothes and skin, notice the glittery coating?   If it all
> over the outside of you, it must be inside too!  (The water cools the grinder
> head and splashes glass laden water onto you too)
> 
> Glad to see the health related issued discussed here.
> 
> You guys are great.
> 
> Pat
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 14:29:14 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: Health Issues and Glass
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:08:40 +0000
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> There are disposable masks that will keep you from inhaling lead.
> They should not be confused with the cheap disposable you see in Home
> Depot.  

Serious glass studios use respirators, the replaceable cartridges for 
which are $25/pair, although those don't have to be replaced that 
often. The masks make you look like something from a B-movie (the 
glass craftsperson that came to Earth!) but they filter it all out. 
They use disposable paper dust only on job sites (incidental dust, 
not lead).  Just if you were curious to know.

Albert
 
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 15:03:34 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>, "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: I feel like I've been drawn and quartered.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 98 16:35:41 -0400
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>
>> The poster was not refering to the health information but to the rude
>> way it was presented! I agree with him, it was rude. 
>
>Again, my apologies for Monona's bluntness. You should hear her in a 
>public presentation. Scary. No nonsense. No patpatpat on the back.
>
>At the same time, her motivation is absolutely focused on the health 
>of artists and craftspeople and she makes no bones about that. 
>Manufacturers, distributors and retailers do not like her. Those 
>who've met her, despite the bald, loud, hectoring tone of her 
>lectures, know she loves them all, each and every one, and like a 
>good mother, gives it to them right between the eyes if they're 
>feeling comfortable (or lazy) about their health.
>
>And that's the way it is.

...and should be! We all need someone like Monona.
Thanks, Monona.

Suzanne

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 16:32:25 1998
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--------------9921BED621B31BE0516F4932
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Thanks to all who answered my question regarding wearing a mask during
soldering and grinding, you've reinforced my feelings about it.  As far
as the way health information was presented, if it was rude, it
certainly got my attention.  I'd like to hear more from Monona, blunt
speaking and all, as regards safety working with stained glass.  I don't
shoot the messenger and certainly paid attention to what she had to say.

Carol T

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Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:13:50 +0000
From: Albert Lewis <alewis@vgernet.net>
Subject: Re: I feel like I've been drawn and quartered.
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> The poster was not refering to the health information but to the rude
> way it was presented! I agree with him, it was rude. 

Again, my apologies for Monona's bluntness. You should hear her in a 
public presentation. Scary. No nonsense. No patpatpat on the back.

At the same time, her motivation is absolutely focused on the health 
of artists and craftspeople and she makes no bones about that. 
Manufacturers, distributors and retailers do not like her. Those 
who've met her, despite the bald, loud, hectoring tone of her 
lectures, know she loves them all, each and every one, and like a 
good mother, gives it to them right between the eyes if they're 
feeling comfortable (or lazy) about their health.

And that's the way it is.

Albert
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--------------9921BED621B31BE0516F4932--

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 17:17:45 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: all we are is glass dust in the wind......
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:59:46 +0000
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> As far as I can tell, the very small glass dust that would be harmful
> for lungs is trapped in the water

It's the dust you can't see that's the problem, alas.

A
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 17:41:49 1998
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X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen
From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: I feel like I've been drawn and quartered.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:56:49 -0700 (PDT)
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>
>Here's my .02 cents.
>I myself have opened up to times on the internet concerning my health
issues, it's like truely bearing it all in the open field and we are not
talking E in the Uk soldering her heart out.
>It's an issue so darn personal.
>I can understand how one gets hurts.
>
>This fellow ( I believe message came from a guy,... I'm trying to be quiet
these days) had a special heart felt message to us all.
>Albert gladly had this lady reply, but the abruptness threw me too, though
she is knowledgeable. Maybe it should have been send private? And asked
later to share it?
>It does not take much to make Cindy cry and being as such I can see how
things have felt to this person. 
I wish to say hang in there please, when one does not have health one does
not have much!!!! Please be kind:)
Cindy.
>
>
>
>>>> The poster was not refering to the health information but to the rude
>>>> way it was presented! I agree with him, it was rude. 
>>>
>>>Again, my apologies for Monona's bluntness. You should hear her in a 
>>>public presentation. Scary. No nonsense. No patpatpat on the back.
>>>
>>>At the same time, her motivation is absolutely focused on the health 
>>>of artists and craftspeople and she makes no bones about that. 
>>>Manufacturers, distributors and retailers do not like her. Those 
>>>who've met her, despite the bald, loud, hectoring tone of her 
>>>lectures, know she loves them all, each and every one, and like a 
>>>good mother, gives it to them right between the eyes if they're 
>>>feeling comfortable (or lazy) about their health.
>>>
>>>And that's the way it is.
>>
>>...and should be! We all need someone like Monona.
>>Thanks, Monona.
>>
>>Suzanne
>>
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>

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 18:34:07 1998
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From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: The cutting edge
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:43:59 -0700 (PDT)
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We have heard tales!!!
Alot of tales ,....many amuse us, but do not belong and wish to know more!!
Are Patrick and E going to wed?
If not does the dog wed?
Hmmm, Cindy.

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 18:58:40 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: mea culpa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:00:01 -0400
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Well, Albert, I must tell you that
I miss getting the Guild posts on
this forum....  can't keep up with =

the latest because I just don't take
the time to explore the Internet
very much.... don't even check my
own web site!  Are there really
that many bungians against =

posting the IGGA info memos????
I thought most of us were members =

of IGGA anyway... maybe I'm wrong
there.  =


And, while we're on the subject,
isn't the next Common Ground edition
about due?  I always look forward to
receiving mine.  =


Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
http://www.igga.org/greer/   =


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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 19:17:30 1998
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Subject: Re: Health Issues and Glass
Date: Thu Sep 10 18:22:13 1998
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need to have a hepa filter

----------
> From: daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: RE: Health Issues and Glass
> Date: Thursday, September 10, 1998 4:19 AM
> 
> There are disposable masks that will keep you from inhaling lead.
> They should not be confused with the cheap disposable you see in Home
> Depot.  
> I think someone mentioned that to stop lead particles the mask had to
> filter at least 3 microns and up, but I could be wrong.
> You may want to E-mail OSHA (boo hiss) and ask them for info.
> 
> I would also find another studio. If they care that little about
> themselves how concerned can they be about you?
> 
> Vic
> 
> 		-----Original Message-----
> 		From:	Carol Tombro [mailto:ctombro@InfoAve.Net]
> 		Sent:	Wednesday, September 09, 1998 7:53 PM
> 		To:	glass@bungi.com
> 		Subject:	Health Issues and Glass
> 
> 		I think a good discussion on the dangers and precautions
> of working with
> 		lead and glass would be an excellent subject.  My own
> reasons may be
> 		selfish, as I'm an 8 year survivor of lung cancer and
> didn't realize by
> 		grinding glass that I was inhaling dust.  I believe it
> was on Bungi that
> 		someone mentioned the fact and now I use a mask while
> grinding.  The
> 		instructors and owner of the studio where I get my
> supplies do not take
> 		any precautions with lead, as they eat, drink, and smoke
> while soldering
> 		and also with no exhaust system in place for the fumes.
> I would like to
> 		know if the throwaway masks are as effective as the more
> cumbersome ones
> 		when grinding.  Be happy to hear any and all opinions on
> that one.
> 
> 		Carol T
> 
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 19:25:31 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: I feel like I've been drawn and quartered.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:36:55 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep10.173655.0>
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Cindy et al -

I don't think Larry ever posted his
health issues directly to bungi - I
believe the post was second-hand
via another bungi member who
felt the information was relevant to
the group.  Am I correct ?  Having
communicated with Monona off-
bungi on numerous occasions, I
can assure you that, despite her tough
love approach, she is a real peach
and totally dedicated to  the welfare
of working artists.  Sometimes the
best way to get an ostrich's head =

out of the sand is to yank it out!!  I
would suspect, too, that given the
challenges Larry has faced in past
years, he is somewhat sensitive to
criticism of the path he has chosen.
Who wants to go through all that hell,
only to discover that we might have =

made the wrong choices because the
information we've been getting might
be incorrect?  Totally depressing.  =

On the other hand, new information
might lead to a better treatment.  I
wouldn't close the door on anything.

Just my thoughts.  And, of course,
my prayers to Larry and all our =

friends who face health challenges.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
http://www.igga.org/greer/    =

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 20:03:47 1998
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From: crclark@swbell.net
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: I feel like I've been drawn and quartered.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:03:03 -0700
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Albert Lewis wrote:
 
> Again, my apologies for Monona's bluntness.
>
Hi,
Albert, you owe no one an apology, you were not rude! However, you do
seem to be saying that as long as one is acting as a teacher it's ok to
be rude. Shall we accept that principle as standard for the list? If I
do good work am I entitled to be unkind? May I set myself up as your
superior (mother) and talk down to you, my inferior (child). I think
not. If this woman claims to be a teacher this would imply that she is
also a student. That being the case I wonder why she hasn't learned that
kindness is always in order. I think that the claim that her ONLY
interest is to teach health issues rings false. If someone has a
headache, it's best not to deliver the aspirin with a hammer.
:-)
Thx,
C.

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 23:01:40 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Input ... Input ... Input
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 00:02:56 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep10.19256.0>
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I need bios for this Saturday's posting. Where are all of the lurkers?
I'm getting desperate enough to post the bios of the dogs and cats again.
Quick, I need help. I can feel the drool of a Sheepdog on my neck. Easy
Toby, easy.




Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 10 23:13:36 1998
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From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: With in Hell
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:09:03 -0700 (PDT)
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Endless and without mercy his Hell appears like legions of grotesque images,
invading his private domain.
Black shadows darken his days and torrents of saddness cancel all hope for
tomorrow.
His weaknened life crumbles in on him and broken are the pieces of his
fragil body, pain and sorrow sink deep into a bloody hole in his belly,
releasing a horrible evil, that has become his master. And he is left with
only threads of his own indentity.
Tired and weary he pushes on and he's allowed fragments of freedom, casting
a small glimmer of light, that embraces him like an angel. Wandering in and
wandering out this tiny ray of sunshine glows thru his bleakest hour. And
the love of life does prevail. Like an explosion bursting thru to his
subconscious he tries to find the true meaning of his destiny, taking him to
places of fantasy thru his mind. Peace and tranquility, is what he sees and
feels, but only for a short time. Thus barely giving him the strength to
struggle on. As his pain knows no limits, it's only to return masking the
joy that he felt, as he tries to recall his faint memories. Like gasping for
the finial breath of air, he becomes withdrawn once again. Torn from the
life that he once had, he now 
regressses back to his hidious self.

c.pesonen
small note... cindy tries creative writing...pain lives with in us all to
some degree, the answer lies in human kindness, to be shared and for all of
us to try to understand.

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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 01:04:10 1998
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X-Path: ior.com!glshorse
From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: Cindy Pesonen <cpesonen@bcinternet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: With in Hell
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 23:47:13 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep11.164713.0>
References: <<199809110509.WAA32199@ns2.vphos.net>>
Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
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Cindy Pesonen wrote:
> 
> Endless and without mercy his Hell appears like legions of grotesque images,
> invading his private domain.
> Black shadows darken his days and torrents of saddness cancel all hope for
> tomorrow.
> His weaknened life crumbles in on him and broken are the pieces of his
> fragil body, pain and sorrow sink deep into a bloody hole in his belly,
> releasing a horrible evil, that has become his master. And he is left with
> only threads of his own indentity.
> Tired and weary he pushes on and he's allowed fragments of freedom, casting
> a small glimmer of light, that embraces him like an angel. Wandering in and
> wandering out this tiny ray of sunshine glows thru his bleakest hour. And
> the love of life does prevail. Like an explosion bursting thru to his
> subconscious he tries to find the true meaning of his destiny, taking him to
> places of fantasy thru his mind. Peace and tranquility, is what he sees and
> feels, but only for a short time. Thus barely giving him the strength to
> struggle on. As his pain knows no limits, it's only to return masking the
> joy that he felt, as he tries to recall his faint memories. Like gasping for
> the finial breath of air, he becomes withdrawn once again. Torn from the
> life that he once had, he now
> regressses back to his hidious self.
> 
> c.pesonen
> small note... cindy tries creative writing...pain lives with in us all to
> some degree, the answer lies in human kindness, to be shared and for all of
> us to try to understand.
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

so does this mean poetry submissions are now accepted on bungi<vbg> my
OTHER creative outlet besides glass......
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 01:34:07 1998
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From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Shoot 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:57:04 -0700 (PDT)
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>To: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
>From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
>Subject: Re:  
>Cc: Ah shoot!
>
>
>Dani, my friend, you do not know me!
>But I must speak from the heart.
>
>It is so hard to speak to many that have college degrees and I have not.
>I speak from the gut.
>It's not a matter, of whom.
>It's a matter of what.
>Hurt does not change beyound degrees.
>Hurt is always hurts.
>And I do not give a royal (you know who) to what it is that says "hurt is
what it is to be described.
>
>Pain comes in ways.
>Only to be shared.
>Only to be asked...be kind.
>Cindy
>
>>
>

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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 02:06:22 1998
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re:Input....Input...Input
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 00:15:21 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep10.171521.0>
Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited
Precedence: bulk

Humm, looks like I better pull out that Inland arrowhead grinder again
this week.  O.k. everyone in my vicinity come over for popcorn and vino'
and I'll give you all some tech tips on Saturday night. Guess without
someone to save Patrick's roses it will be one of those Bio-less nights.

P.S. You won't be charged for supplies but you will have to bring your
own camouflage gear and nippers.

See you then,

Pam *sm*

*********************************
Moswood Mountain Limited
Pamela Burns-Tappan
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html

Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/


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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 02:19:07 1998
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X-Path: hitel.net!mijingls
From:     6365.mijingls@hitel.net
To:       6365.
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject:  New business proposal !! [glass products] -21536
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 01:16:58 -0700 (PDT)
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 DEAR SIRS

 Enclosed please find our catalogue which show only parts of our lines
 We have handled last six years.
 Please let us know which other lines your interested in our lines.


                        Our Main Glass Products                  
                       =========================

 Glass Door for Micro wave oven.        Self Glass for Refrigerator.
 Flat Glass for Copy Machine& Scanner.  Glass for Monitor Shadow Mask.
 Glass for Gas oven range.              Glass for Ship's Pivoted Window.
 Glass for Furniture.                   Glass for Kitchen's Furniture.
 Glass Art Glass.                       Deco Glass(Wall, etc)&Pattern Glass
 Glass for Audio.                       Glass for Display.
 Glass for Showcase.


  We wish to give you our best service in dealing with any our items.
  your very truly.
 
  Director  JOSEPH LEE

------------------------------------------------------------------------
 715-6, Gojan-Dong,Namdong-Gu,Ichon, Korea
 E-mail : mijingls@hitel.net  http://hitel.net/~MIJINGLS
 Tel: 82-32-815-8111 Fax : 82-32-815-8114
------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 03:43:21 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Health and Safety
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:33:39 +0000
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Hi all,
I don't know how many of you will remember, but a couple of years ago 
I had cause to turn to Bungi in respect of a friend of mine, who had 
to take early retirement on grounds of (occupational) ill health. She 
was Head of an Art Department at a High School here in UK, but 
contracted occupational asthma. The helpfulness, information, 
kindness and encouragement I/we then received from Monona appeared 
endless. It was in large part due to her that I/we were able to take 
my friend's School and the Social Security Dept here in UK to court 
and win. Monona is blunt and forthright, but - as someone said - one 
doesn't shoot the messenger.
Part of her bluntness, I came to learn, was her passion that not 
enough is done to safe-guard the health and safety of workers in the 
arts, crafts and theatre industry. So with her, one sort of takes the 
rough with the smooth. She certainly doesn't "mess about". During 
this period, she was constantly available for me, however busy she 
was and she also snail-mailed me masses of written material.

....Just thought I'd post a little reminder......
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 04:09:38 1998
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'Glass@bungi.com'" <Glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: mea culpa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 06:19:42 -0400
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For my part, even us non-members enjoyed the IGGA info memos.

LInda



Dani said:

Are there really
that many bungians against =

posting the IGGA info memos????
I thought most of us were members =

of IGGA anyway... maybe I'm wrong
there.  =



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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 05:11:05 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: I feel like I've been drawn and quartered.
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:36:55 +0000
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> Albert, you owe no one an apology, you were not rude! However, you do
> seem to be saying that as long as one is acting as a teacher it's ok to
> be rude.

I don't think I've said that Monona is rude. She's blunt and 
to-the-point, does not coddle peoples' fantasies about their health, 
tells them the facts without embellishment, hates the fact that many 
(most?) manufacturers and distributors are reluctant (or refuse) to 
pass along health information about the products they sell. Etcetera.

Albert
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 05:41:30 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!jroey
From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: mea culpa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:55:01 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep11.3551.0>
References: <<1998Sep10.1701.0>>
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Amen!  Thank you Dani!

I don't spend a lot of time on the internet either, but Albert's
reminders gave me that little prod to go look.  I stopped to go look at
the address he posted yesterday and really enjoyed it.  Let's face it,
there's so much junk on the net, I'm more likely to look if someone'
who's opinion I respect, reccomends a site.  Otherwise, you can wade
through junk for the rest of your life.

I thought Len was the only one against the IGGA postings.  (I don't
remember anyone else who voiced an opinion that was opposed.)  Well, he
got what he wanted, spoiled it for the rest of us, and he left.  What
about a vote?  I'd be happy to tally votes.

Jerri


On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:00:01 -0400 "Michael J. Greer"
<GreerStudios@compuserve.com> writes:
>Well, Albert, I must tell you that
>I miss getting the Guild posts on
>this forum....  can't keep up with =
>
>the latest because I just don't take
>the time to explore the Internet
>very much.... don't even check my
>own web site!  Are there really
>that many bungians against =
>
>posting the IGGA info memos????
>I thought most of us were members =
>
>of IGGA anyway... maybe I'm wrong
>there.  =
>
>
>And, while we're on the subject,
>isn't the next Common Ground edition
>about due?  I always look forward to
>receiving mine.  =
>
>
>Best regards,
>
>Dani Greer
>Greer Gallery & Studios
>http://www.igga.org/greer/   =
>
>
>----
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>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 05:58:48 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: IGGA info memos
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:42:24 +0000
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> For my part, even us non-members enjoyed the IGGA info memos.

I'm glad you did, but out of deference for those who didn't (and 
because I was beat up the side o' the head a bit), I stopped sending 
them to the group.

However, later today you'll be able to go to the Guild's web site at
http://www.igga.org/
and click on the BUNGI icon (where we recommend this group as one of 
the liveliest and friendliest and most helpful we know of). On that 
same page, there'll be a signup button for the Guild's online memos. 
That way, even non-members can get them.

Members get them automatically, of course.

Albert

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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 07:16:34 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!CBH861
From: CBH861@aol.com
To: pkelly@n-link.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Input ... Input ... Input
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:28:57 EDT
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In a message dated 9/11/98 2:03:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pkelly@n-link.com
writes:

<< I need bios for this Saturday's posting. Where are all of the lurkers?
 I'm getting desperate enough to post the bios of the dogs and cats again.
 Quick, I need help. I can feel the drool of a Sheepdog on my neck. Easy
 Toby, easy. >>


I'm new to the group and I don't understand what the big thing is about the
bios.  Can you help me out?

Thanks
Claire
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 07:30:48 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: mea culpa
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:52:23 +0000
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> I thought Len was the only one against the IGGA postings.  (I don't
> remember anyone else who voiced an opinion that was opposed.)  Well, he
> got what he wanted, spoiled it for the rest of us, and he left.  What
> about a vote?  I'd be happy to tally votes.

I can't remember myself who all was anti-memo. My bruises soon 
healed, however. <g>

The form is up now. Go to
http://www.igga.org
Click on the bungi button in the upper right-hand corner.
That will bring up signups for both bungi and IGGA.

Anyone who wants the memos can request them that way. Nobody who 
doesn't want them will get them. Very orderly and clean. <s>

By the way, this was just put up, hasn't been tested, although I have 
every confidence it'll work just fine. Morale is high.

Albert
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 08:19:20 1998
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From: Bob the Dinosaur <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------CD61DDFAD93079E31FE36F68"
Subject: test was: New business proposal !! [glass products] -21536]
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:35:34 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep11.63534.0>
Organization: Cox's Mower Service
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------CD61DDFAD93079E31FE36F68
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I guess everyone else got this? I think my isp is broken, I can get
mail, but my outging seems broken

6365.mijingls@hitel.net wrote:
> 
>  DEAR SIRS
> 
>  Enclosed please find our catalogue which show only parts of our lines
>  We have handled last six years.
>  Please let us know which other lines your interested in our lines.
> 
>                         Our Main Glass Products
>                        =========================
> 
>  Glass Door for Micro wave oven.        Self Glass for Refrigerator.

-- 
Adults are obsolete children
		Theodore Geisel
--------------CD61DDFAD93079E31FE36F68
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From: 6365.mijingls@hitel.net
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject:  New business proposal !! [glass products] -21536
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 01:16:58 -0700 (PDT)
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 DEAR SIRS

 Enclosed please find our catalogue which show only parts of our lines
 We have handled last six years.
 Please let us know which other lines your interested in our lines.


                        Our Main Glass Products                  
                       =========================

 Glass Door for Micro wave oven.        Self Glass for Refrigerator.
 Flat Glass for Copy Machine& Scanner.  Glass for Monitor Shadow Mask.
 Glass for Gas oven range.              Glass for Ship's Pivoted Window.
 Glass for Furniture.                   Glass for Kitchen's Furniture.
 Glass Art Glass.                       Deco Glass(Wall, etc)&Pattern Glass
 Glass for Audio.                       Glass for Display.
 Glass for Showcase.


  We wish to give you our best service in dealing with any our items.
  your very truly.
 
  Director  JOSEPH LEE

------------------------------------------------------------------------
 715-6, Gojan-Dong,Namdong-Gu,Ichon, Korea
 E-mail : mijingls@hitel.net  http://hitel.net/~MIJINGLS
 Tel: 82-32-815-8111 Fax : 82-32-815-8114
------------------------------------------------------------------------


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--------------CD61DDFAD93079E31FE36F68--


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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 08:27:43 1998
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From: Albert Lewis <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Test
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:57:39 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep11.65739.0>
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Hi, everyone.

This is a test of sending a message to glass@bungi.com from
http://www.igga.org/

Albert


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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 10:29:48 1998
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X-Path: earthlink.com!rpetras
From: "Robyn Petras" <rpetras@earthlink.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: pattern ideas
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 12:44:37 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep11.84437.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi! I am new to the group and am enjoying reading everyone's posts.
Compared to most, I am new to the art of stained glass.  After teaching
elementary school for 9 years, my fight against cystic fibrosis forced me to
leave the classroom.  Since then, I have taken on the art of stained glass
making.  My dad, glass teacher, learned about 5 years ago.  He gave me
intro lessons.  I have learned as I make new projects and mistakes.

My hobby has turned into a business.  i gave away so many gifts to my 12
doctors that the orders started coming.  I have been working on 14 pieces
for Children's Hospital in Columbus,OH for over a year.  I am thankful that
my creative energy can be put to use in my studio if not in the classroom!
It is also fun talking to my dad about glass projects and ideas.

I am going to make a memorial piece for Children's Hospital dedicated to my
friend.  The theme I would like to work with is people-the diversity of
people.  I am not a designer.  Does anyone have any pattern ideas on this
topic.  I don't recall seeing anteing of this theme.  Thanks in advance for
your ideas.
Robyn



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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 10:51:11 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: <CBH861@aol.com>, "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Input ... Input ... Input
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 98 11:44:49 -0400
Message-ID: <199809111548.LAA26544@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk


Claire wrote:
>I'm new to the group and I don't understand what the big thing is about the
>bios.  Can you help me out?

Hi Claire,

Each one of us in the group has volunteered to submit a short bio of 
ourselves - just so the others know who we are, what we do, etc. It's 
been fun to know the others on the list. Each weekend Patrick posts two 
of these for the whole group; so far we've had about 40 or 50 and we all 
find it enjoyable.

Your bio would be most welcome.
No need for formality, just write something to tell us who you are.

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 13:26:58 1998
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19)
X-Path: socent.org!atf
From: "K. See" <atf@socent.org>
To: Robyn Petras <rpetras@earthlink.net>, "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: pattern ideas
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 15:56:49 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep11.115649.0>
References: <<1998Sep11.84437.0>>
Organization: SOC Enterprises
Precedence: bulk

I think coloring books will be a source for diversity in kids. I work for a
company that trains & employs persons with disabilities & have done both our
company newsletter as well as a community newsletter which is veeerry diverse. I
had checked with all kinds of clip art services etc. and the coloring books had
a better composition for showing all ways of working together. Good luck
I am also new to this group and have been lurking and learning all kinds of
things and have visited many new sites. In one week I've been able to put works
of art with members of this group. So much talent at one place is fantastic!!

Robyn Petras wrote:

> Hi! I am new to the group and am enjoying reading everyone's posts.
> Compared to most, I am new to the art of stained glass.  After teaching
> elementary school for 9 years, my fight against cystic fibrosis forced me to
> leave the classroom.  Since then, I have taken on the art of stained glass
> making.  My dad, glass teacher, learned about 5 years ago.  He gave me
> intro lessons.  I have learned as I make new projects and mistakes.
>
> My hobby has turned into a business.  i gave away so many gifts to my 12
> doctors that the orders started coming.  I have been working on 14 pieces
> for Children's Hospital in Columbus,OH for over a year.  I am thankful that
> my creative energy can be put to use in my studio if not in the classroom!
> It is also fun talking to my dad about glass projects and ideas.
>
> I am going to make a memorial piece for Children's Hospital dedicated to my
> friend.  The theme I would like to work with is people-the diversity of
> people.  I am not a designer.  Does anyone have any pattern ideas on this
> topic.  I don't recall seeing anteing of this theme.  Thanks in advance for
> your ideas.
> Robyn
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 13:59:10 1998
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X-Path: earthlink.net!glasshack
From: Chris Orowitz <glasshack@earthlink.net>
To: glass@bungi.com, glass@intrastar.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Moving Sale
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:21:26 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep11.122126.0>
Organization: The Glass Shack
Precedence: bulk

My husband I will be moving by the end of next month so I need to
"lighten our load" a bit.  I have a lot of glass, bevels, a grinder and
some other miscellaneous items for sale.  If you are interested email me
privately for more info.  Would prefer not to ship the larger pieces of
glass. Am located in the Massachusetts (west of Boston) area. Prices are
very good!
Chris Orowitz
glasshack@earthlink.net


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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 13:59:23 1998
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X-Path: socent.org!atf
From: "K. See" <atf@socent.org>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: all we are is glass dust in the wind......
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:09:04 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep11.1294.0>
References: <<1998Sep10.111040.0>>
Organization: SOC Enterprises
Precedence: bulk

I have purchased the Diamond Max a couple of months ago & am having problems with
the sponge which spits out glass particles, water, the works. It gets on my arm &
front of apron. I never had this problem with a older Glastar grinder. Do you have
this problem? I called Mac in FL & he said to cut the sponge down a bit. Three
sponges & it is somewhat better but not as nice a not getting wet at all. I was
very lucky to be taught the basics from a store in VA that covered all the safety
issues. Including the recommendation of wearing closed shoes when cutting & long
pants when soldering. Now I have introduced other parts of the body to discuss.
I'll be back on Monday Ya'all have a great weekend.

leestat7 wrote:

> As far as I can tell, the very small glass dust that would be harmful
> for lungs is trapped in the water (My Diamond Max grinder may work
> different) The larger chips are too heavy to breath, and splash all
> over.  But Yes, a special respirator would be the safest way to go.  I
> can't stand wearing one, so only use it for the most critical
> applications.  (sifting casting investment plaster, working with acids,
> etc.)  I cast gold and silver also, and most of that work is far more
> dangerous.
>
> One thing we all should do, is take a shower and wash your hair after
> every studio session.  My hair gets washed a lot. :-)
>
> Lee Boe
> Rain-Boe's Creations
>  http://www.igga.org/rainboe/
>
> CncptThnkr@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Regarding the use of water to keep the dust down, next time you grind look
> > carefully at your clothes and skin, notice the glittery coating?   If it all
> > over the outside of you, it must be inside too!  (The water cools the grinder
> > head and splashes glass laden water onto you too)
> >
> > Glad to see the health related issued discussed here.
> >
> > You guys are great.
> >
> > Pat
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 14:28:46 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: mea culpa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 13:43:28 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep11.64328.0>
References: <<1998Sep11.3551.0>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

Me too, I miss the infor!!!!
Shirley B

jerri m Roey wrote:
> 
> Amen!  Thank you Dani!
> 
> I don't spend a lot of time on the internet either, but Albert's
> reminders gave me that little prod to go look.  I stopped to go look at
> the address he posted yesterday and really enjoyed it.  Let's face it,
> there's so much junk on the net, I'm more likely to look if someone'
> who's opinion I respect, reccomends a site.  Otherwise, you can wade
> through junk for the rest of your life.
> 
> I thought Len was the only one against the IGGA postings.  (I don't
> remember anyone else who voiced an opinion that was opposed.)  Well, he
> got what he wanted, spoiled it for the rest of us, and he left.  What
> about a vote?  I'd be happy to tally votes.
> 
> Jerri
> 
> On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:00:01 -0400 "Michael J. Greer"
> <GreerStudios@compuserve.com> writes:
> >Well, Albert, I must tell you that
> >I miss getting the Guild posts on
> >this forum....  can't keep up with =
> >
> >the latest because I just don't take
> >the time to explore the Internet
> >very much.... don't even check my
> >own web site!  Are there really
> >that many bungians against =
> >
> >posting the IGGA info memos????
> >I thought most of us were members =
> >
> >of IGGA anyway... maybe I'm wrong
> >there.  =
> >
> >
> >And, while we're on the subject,
> >isn't the next Common Ground edition
> >about due?  I always look forward to
> >receiving mine.  =
> >
> >
> >Best regards,
> >
> >Dani Greer
> >Greer Gallery & Studios
> >http://www.igga.org/greer/   =
> >
> >
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> 
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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�
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 14:58:46 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!mschatee
From: mschatee@juno.com
To: pkelly@n-link.com
Subject: Re: Artist needs help
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 15:49:26 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep11.194926.0>
References: <<1998Sep9.172722.0>>
Precedence: bulk


On Wed, 9 Sep 1998 22:27:22 -0500 "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com> writes:
>One of our fellow bungarians (Susan Bloch-Welliver, bio #17)  wrote me 
>this
>short bio. But it struck me that instead of a bio it is a request for
>assistance in case it is needed. Contact her directly if you can help
>BlochStudio@EarthCorp.com
>
>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>Hi,
>I am also a glass artist.  I read your bio with interest sometime ago. 
> I
>was on the list but seem to have been disconnected when I had problems 
>with
>my server.
>
>I live in Elmira, NY & have just finished a commission that my husband 
>and I
>were to install in Boca Raton.
>I was to be leaving in a couple of weeks to go to Florida.  Within the 
>last
>3 weeks, my mother came down with cancer
>and it's been snowballing.  It started with a tiny lump that wasn't 
>supposed
>to be cancer. Then it was self contained. Then a lumpectomy. Then a
>mastectomy and she was to just be dealing with phsycial therapy. Now 
>it
>seems it's
>in her lymph nodes and she's beginning chemotherapy and other 
>treatment.
>I'm planning to go be with her in NJ as soon as I finish packing the 
>glass
>for shipping.  My husband has arranged to go with as friend to install 
>the
>window.
>Neither of them are glass artists.  I'm hoping there's a way I can 
>stay with
>my mother rather than go.
>
>I'm looking for a glass artist in the vicinity of the installation 
>that my
>husband can hire in the case of a problem.
>
>I'm wondering if you have any experience with replacing broken glass 
>in a
>stained glass window in case it arrives
>damaged in any way.  If not, can you recommend anyone?
>If need be, I will go to Florida to do this, but if I could find 
>someone
>competent it would be much more helpful.
>
>If you feel this is something you can do, great.
>If not, that's ok, too.  I'm sure there must be someone around there 
>that
>could help if need be.
>
>Thank you for your time.
>
>Susan Bloch-Welliver
>
>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>
>Patrick
>Roses and Rainbows
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>


First let me say I am very sorry to hear about your mothers illness, my
prayers are with you.
Several months ago I corresponded with a women on this list that was from
Delray Beach, Florida which is the next town over from Boca Raton.  I
don't remember her name and my harddrive was replaced since then and I
lost all my old files.  Tiffinay Studios maybe?  Does that sound familiar
to anyone?  She works out of her home but she sounded like a professional
to me.  Maybe if someone knows who I am talking about they can get you
her email address, I know she is a bungian so sooner or later she'll read
this note.
Good luck to you and your family.
And to whomever it was from Cinnicinati and offered to go, you must be
one beautiful person!  You really give hope in the human spirit, thanks.

Back to lurking.

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 18:05:02 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: mea culpa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 20:40:12 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep11.164012.0>
Precedence: bulk

You're right, Jerri, it was Len and
a few others who were so rabid =

about spam that they even threw
IGGA's memos into the same =

garbage pail.  I, for one, really =

enjoyed any infomercials as long
as they related to glass.  I appreciate
Jim Matthews posting the latest
Spectrum updates... wish some of
the other manufacturers would do =

the same.  I always love hearing
from Charles and W-C, and while
we're on the subject, whatever =

happened to stainedglassbiz?
Having had time to check their
site in eons!  =


Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 19:06:29 1998
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From: fibers@wcnet.net (fibers)
To: "glass@ bungie.com" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: confused
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 20:37:29 -0500
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Daniel,
I'm confused. I don't know where to send my submissions for the artists
gallery. Your post gives one adddress and the instructions give another.
Which one is right?
Nelda

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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 19:51:01 1998
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Nothing to do with Glass-Joke
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 18:53:34 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep11.115334.0>
Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited
Precedence: bulk

(This joke was sent to me today. I took the liberty of changing the
names just to give you all a laugh, this was not written by Patrick)


NOTES FROM AN INEXPERIENCED CHILI TASTER NAMED PATRICK

"Recently, I was honored to be selected as an Outstanding Famous
Celebrity
in Texas and, therefore, to be a judge at a chili cook-off (because no
one
else wanted to do it...also, the original person called in sick at the
last
moment and I happened to be standing there at the judge's table asking
directions to the beer wagon when the call came).
I was assured by the other two judges that the chili wouldn't be all
that
spicy, and besides they told me I could have free beer during the
tasting. I
accepted this as being one of those burdens you endure when you're an
internet writer, therefore, known and adored by all!!"

SCORE CARDS FROM THE EVENT:
Chili #1: TOBY'S MANIAC MOBSTER MONSTER CHILI
Judge One: A little too heavy on tomato. Amusing kick.
Judge Two: Nice, smooth tomato flavor. Very mild.  PATRICK: Holy smokes,
what
is this stuff? You could remove dried paint from your driveway with it.
Took
me two beers to put the flames out.  Hope that's the worst one. These
people
are crazy.

Chili #2: ELISABETH'S AFTERBURNER CHILI
Judge One: Smoky (barbecue?) with a hint of pork. Slight jalapeno tang.
Judge Two: Exciting BBQ flavor; needs more peppers to be taken
seriously.
PATRICK: Keep this out of reach of children! I'm not sure what I am
supposed
to taste besides pain. I had to wave off two people who wanted to give
me
the Heimlich maneuver. Shoved my way to the front of the beer line. The
barmaid looks like a professional wrestler after a bad night.  She was
so
irritated over my gagging sounds that the snake tattoo under her eye
started
to twitch. She has arms like Popeye and a face like Winston Churchill. I

will NOT pick a fight with her.

Chili #3: ALBERT'S FAMOUS BURN DOWN THE BARN CHILI Judge One: Excellent
firehouse chili! Great kick. Needs more beans.  Judge Two: A beanless
chili,
a bit salty; good use of red peppers.  PATRICK: This has got to be a
joke.
Call the EPA. I've located a uranium spill! My nose feels like I have
been
sneezing Drano. Everyone knows the routine by now and got out of my way
so I
could make it to the beer wagon. The barmaid pounded me on the back. Now
my
backbone is in the front part of my chest. She said her friends call her

"Sally".  Probably, behind her back, they call her "Forklift".

Chili #4: P.J'S BLACK MAGIC
Judge One: Black bean chili with almost no spice. Disappointing.  Judge
Two:
Hint of lime in the black beans. Good side dish for fish or other mild
foods. Not much chili.
PATRICK: I felt something scraping across my tongue but was unable to
taste
it.  Sally was standing behind me with fresh refills so I wouldn't have
to
dash over to see her. When she winked at me her snake sort of coiled and

uncoiled...it's kinda cute!

Chili #5: DANI'S LEGAL LIP REMOVER
Judge One: Meaty, strong chili. Cayenne peppers freshly ground adding
considerable kick. Very impressive!
Judge Two: Chili using shredded beef; could use more tomato. Must admit
the
cayenne peppers make a strong statement.  PATRICK: My ears are ringing
and I
can no longer focus my eyes. I belched and four people in front of me
needed
paramedics. The contestant seemed hurt when I told her that her chili
had
given me brain damage. Sally saved my tongue by pouring beer directly on
it
from a pitcher. Sort of irritates me that one of the other judges asked
me
to stop screaming.

Chili #6: MIKE'S VERY VEGETARIAN VARIETY
Judge One: Thin yet bold vegetarian variety chili. Good balance of spice
and
peppers.
Judge Two: The best yet. Aggressive use of peppers, onions and garlic.
Superb.
PATRICK: My intestines are now a straight pipe filled with gaseous
flames.
No one seems inclined to stand behind me except Sally.
I asked if she wanted to go dancing later.

Chili #7: SUSAN'S SCREAMING SENSATION CHILI Judge One: A mediocre chili
with
too much reliance on canned peppers.
Judge Two: Ho-Hum. Tastes as if the chef threw in canned peppers at the
last
moment. I should note that I am worried about Judge #3. He appears to be
in
a bit of distress.
PATRICK: You could put a hand grenade in my mouth and pull the pin and I

wouldn't feel it! I've lost the sight in one eye and the world sounds
like
it is made of rushing water. My clothes are covered with chili which
slid
unnoticed out of my mouth at some point. Good, at autopsy they'll know
what
killed me. Go Sally, save yourself before it's too late. Tell our
children
I'm sorry I wasn't there to conceive them. I've decided to stop
breathing,
it's too painful and I'm not getting any oxygen anyway. If I need air,
I'll
just let it in through the hole in my stomach. Call the X-Files people
and
tell them I've found a super nova on my tongue.

Chili #8: GLENNA'S MOUNT SAINT CHILI
Judge One: This final entry is a good, balanced chili, neither mild nor
hot.
Sorry to see that most of it was lost when Judge #3 fell and pulled the
chili pot on top of himself.
Judge Two: A perfect ending. This is a nice blend chili, safe for all,
not
too bold but spicy enough to declare its existence.  PATRICK: Momma??!!




Have a great weekend everyone

Pam *sm*

--
*********************************
Moswood Mountain Limited
Pamela Burns-Tappan
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html

Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/


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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 20:08:40 1998
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Input ... Input ... Input
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 22:07:31 -0400
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I did my bio, but I could make one up (after all, I used to write for True
Stories).  But my dog doesn't do glass, talented as she is, but she does look
at it occasionally.

Dorothy K

Pat Kelly wrote:

> I need bios for this Saturday's posting. Where are all of the lurkers?
> I'm getting desperate enough to post the bios of the dogs and cats again.
> Quick, I need help. I can feel the drool of a Sheepdog on my neck. Easy
> Toby, easy.
>
> Patrick
> Roses and Rainbows
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Fri Sep 11 23:25:21 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Not this week Toby
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 00:35:08 -0500
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There will be no dining on Irish butt steak this week Toby. Some kind souls
have submitted their bios. I guess you'll have to settle for fish fingers. I
still haven't figured out what kind fish have fingers or whether they have
opposing thumbs. It must be one of those nuclear waste fisheries or maybe
its a French delicacy (or Swedish).

Anyway, stand by for the bios.


Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 01:07:36 1998
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X-Path: flash.net!cat13
From: Carol <cat13@flash.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: lead absorption through skin
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 23:28:49 +0000
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Evening all -

All this talk about inhaling glass dust and lead fumes made me wonder if I
am the only one who worries that I can absorb lead through my skin.  I hold
my spool of solder with one hand while soldering, and since I think I'm
usually stupid enough already :) I wear rubber surgical gloves when I
solder.  Does anyone else do something like this? 

-Carol

"I wonder if other dogs think poodles are members of a weird religious
cult." - Rita Rudner




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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 01:37:49 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Nothing to do with Glass-Joke
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 98 00:41:21 -0400
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Pam, thanks for a great laugh on a tired Friday night!
Patrick, looking forward to at least TWO bios tomorrow! (chili no excuse)
I can hear Toby's growls all the way over here.
Suzanne

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 03:40:39 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: lead absorption through skin
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 05:47:18 +0000
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> All this talk about inhaling glass dust and lead fumes made me wonder if I
> am the only one who worries that I can absorb lead through my skin. 


Yes, you can (and do).  Lead may be absorbed through
     the skin, the lungs, or through the gastrointestinal (GI) tract.
     The bulk of lead absorption is through the GI route in the
     pediatric population. Children absorb up to 50% of ingested lead,
     whereas adults absorb only 5-10% of ingested lead. 

Wearing rubber gloves isn't necessary. Washing your hands thoroughly 
is important and, of course, you shouldn't smoke or eat while working 
with lead ... hand to mouth effect.

Albert
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 04:20:28 1998
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Subject: Re: lead absorption through skin
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 10:57:27 +0100
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At 23:28 11/09/98 +0000, Carol wrote:

>All this talk about inhaling glass dust and lead fumes made me wonder if I
>am the only one who worries that I can absorb lead through my skin.  I hold
>my spool of solder with one hand while soldering, and since I think I'm
>usually stupid enough already :) I wear rubber surgical gloves when I
>solder.  Does anyone else do something like this? 
>
Yes, Carol, we always use a non-greasy barrier cream and insist our students
use it during classes.

Elizabeth Law (Bournemouth Stained Glass)
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 04:35:31 1998
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X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: IGGA Memos
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 11:31:02 +0000
Message-ID: <199809121036.LAA26930@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
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Yep, I enjoyed the memos too. Have already been hot-foot to IGGA site 
to put my name down, even though I'm not a paid-up member. What I 
also enjoy very much is to be able to "share" in some of the 
excellent articles which the Common Ground so altruistically allows 
me to read on the WEB.  I call that generosity. 

my 2 cents worth
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Jerri wrote:
> I don't spend a lot of time on the internet either, but Albert's
> reminders gave me that little prod to go look.  I stopped to go look at
> the address he posted yesterday and really enjoyed it.  Let's face it,
> there's so much junk on the net, I'm more likely to look if someone'
> who's opinion I respect, reccomends a site.  Otherwise, you can wade
> through junk for the rest of your life.
> 
> I thought Len was the only one against the IGGA postings.  (I don't
> remember anyone else who voiced an opinion that was opposed.)  Well, he
> got what he wanted, spoiled it for the rest of us, and he left.  What
> about a vote?  I'd be happy to tally votes.
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 05:15:22 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
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> 
> Claire wrote:
> >I'm new to the group and I don't understand what the big thing is about the
> >bios.  Can you help me out?
> 
> Hi Claire,
> 
> Each one of us in the group has volunteered to submit a short bio of 
> ourselves - just so the others know who we are, what we do, etc. It's 
> been fun to know the others on the list. Each weekend Patrick posts two 
> of these for the whole group; so far we've had about 40 or 50 and we all 
> find it enjoyable.
> 
> Your bio would be most welcome.
> No need for formality, just write something to tell us who you are.
> 
Yep, and if you don't,  there is a ferocious, hungry and vicisous Old 
English Sheepdog, called TOBY who would just LOVE tro have a bit of 
Patrick's legs for breakfast ( supper...... hmmmm another part may 
be....)    :->
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 05:28:13 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: Nothing to do with Glass-Joke
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Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 11:53:06 +0000
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Thanks Pamela,
Laughed so much, the tears were rolling down my face, all over the 
key-board.
Needed that on a wet "grizzly" autumn day!
Take care now!
Keep taking the medicine, Patrick!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

> (This joke was sent to me today. I took the liberty of changing the
> names just to give you all a laugh, this was not written by Patrick)
> 
> 
> NOTES FROM AN INEXPERIENCED CHILI TASTER NAMED PATRICK
 
----
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North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 05:48:53 1998
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From: Yegnim@aol.com
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: lead absorption through skin
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 07:24:27 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep12.112427.0>
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Hi Carol and Bungians,

Yes, you can absorb lead from solder thru your skin.  I always wear gloves
(pair) while soldering and even during the clean-up.  Hated it in the
beginning, but have gotten accustomed to them.  I always get gloves with the
tightest fit to get the most possible flexibility.

Lenore
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 07:13:34 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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There once was an Old English "mutt"
who sat lusting for old Irish butt.
Said some strange geriatric,
'n then proffered this Patrick
"The two of you ought to get wed!"
Well, that's one of the ways to get fed!

I have steak once a year
washed down with a beer
and the sniff of it still with me lingers.
If as wife I thee take
you'll end up as my steak
since I fancy a change from fish-fingers!

Canine Anon.

thread:
> Cindy,
> 
> Patrick & E going to wed?? Does the term "Northern Ireland" ring a bell? How
> about  " Nuclear Holocaust"? (LMAO).
> 

> 
> >We have heard tales!!!
> >Alot of tales ,....many amuse us, but do not belong and wish to know more!!
> >Are Patrick and E going to wed?
> >If not does the dog wed?
> >Hmmm, Cindy.
> >
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 09:33:02 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Not this week Toby (fish fingers)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 08:46:26 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep12.14626.0>
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What part of the chicken do the nuggets come from?

Been quiet on the lamp information front. No questions....

Did enjoy the parody.

enjoy, H



weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard   best lamps on the "net"
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 10:05:04 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: lead absorption through skin
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 12:18:13 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep12.81813.0>
References: <<3.0.5.32.19980911232849.007c6100@pop.flash.net>>
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Carol wrote:
> 
> Evening all -
> 
> All this talk about inhaling glass dust and lead fumes made me wonder if I
> am the only one who worries that I can absorb lead through my skin.  I hold
> my spool of solder with one hand while soldering, and since I think I'm
> usually stupid enough already :) I wear rubber surgical gloves when I
> solder.  Does anyone else do something like this?
> 
> -Carol
> 
> "I wonder if other dogs think poodles are members of a weird religious
> cult." - Rita Rudner
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


 i also wear gloves, but not for the fear of lead. the flux messes up my
hands, and that's why i wear the gloves. plus it helps prevents burns.

i always thought that lead was most quickly absorbed in the mouth.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 11:09:49 1998
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X-Path: cybersol.com!TWLARRY
From: TWLARRY@cybersol.com (Nordhoff, Larry)
To: Albert Lewis <alewis@vgernet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: lead absorption through skin
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 11:26:49 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep12.72649.0>
References: <<199809121219.IAA00867@vger.vgernet.net>>
Organization: Trade Winds
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,

There are a couple of things that haven't been touched upon.  There are
supliments available to help rid the body of excess lead.  One is Apple
Pectin, and the other is Fundimental Sulfur.

I find the Apple Pectin is hard on my stomach but I can take it at
night. The Fundimental Sulfur has no side effect.  Another name for
Fundimental Sulfur is MSM.  These are all available at most health food
stores.

TWLARRY





Albert Lewis wrote:
> 
> 
> > All this talk about inhaling glass dust and lead fumes made me wonder if I
> > am the only one who worries that I can absorb lead through my skin.
> 
> Yes, you can (and do).  Lead may be absorbed through
>      the skin, the lungs, or through the gastrointestinal (GI) tract.
>      The bulk of lead absorption is through the GI route in the
>      pediatric population. Children absorb up to 50% of ingested lead,
>      whereas adults absorb only 5-10% of ingested lead.
> 
> Wearing rubber gloves isn't necessary. Washing your hands thoroughly
> is important and, of course, you shouldn't smoke or eat while working
> with lead ... hand to mouth effect.
> 
> Albert
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 14:37:36 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!mschatee
From: mschatee@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: lead absorption through skin
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 16:41:23 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep12.204123.0>
References: <<3.0.5.32.19980911232849.007c6100@pop.flash.net>>>
Precedence: bulk

What kind of gloves do you all wear?  I've never used gloves but now I'm
thinking I probably should?  Any recommendations?

Thanks,
Caren

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 15:45:24 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: mschatee@juno.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: lead absorption through skin
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 17:50:14 -0400
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mschatee@juno.com wrote:
> 
> What kind of gloves do you all wear?  I've never used gloves but now I'm
> thinking I probably should?  Any recommendations?
> 
> Thanks,
> Caren
> 
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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i've been using doctors type examination gloves, i get them from my
father.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 16:16:13 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bios of the week
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 17:19:19 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep12.121919.0>
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Its such a dismal day here I thought I would post 3 bios this week.

Also, it might keep the popcorn and wine crowd happy, Not to mention a well
know Swede and here companion from hell.

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 16:32:23 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bio #51 Caroline Lick
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 17:22:43 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep12.122243.0>
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Hi Everyone,

Although I don't post much, I've been thoroughly enjoying and learning from
all of those that do.  I thought it was time to send in my bio so that when
I do send the odd post, everyone will know who I am.

I live in a small town called Manotick, Ontario, Canada, about 10 minutes
away
from our Nation's Capital City, Ottawa.  I live with my husband and our two
pet bunnies.

I work at the National Research Council Canada in The Institute for
Chemical Process and Environmental Technology.  I am involved in research
in liquid separations using membrane technology.  We are mainly trying to
clean up other people's industrial waste (pulp and paper, mining, food
industry).  But, we have done some more interesting jobs like turning red
wine into white and clarifying beer.

Now, onto my glass life.  I started only about 3 years ago.  One of the
ladies from the church who works at one of the two studios in town, gave a
8 week evening course in the church basement to any members who wanted to
join in.  My Mom really wanted to go, and brought me along.  Mom stopped
after the 8 weeks, I'm still enjoying the hobby.  I have been working my
way through all the different methods and projects, trying to learn them
all.

The thing that I like best about doing stained glass is I find it a way to
relax.  I suffer from migraines and headaches, and if I have a headache,
sometimes going down to the shop will relieve some of the pain.  Maybe
concentrating on my cutting or grinding takes away any other worries I
might have.

I have no hope or desire to become professional in this hobby, but I love
making gifts for friends and family, and making my house dance with the
colours of the art.

Nice to meet you all!  And thanks for listening.

Carolyn



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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 16:47:25 1998
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From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: all we are is glass dust in the wind......
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 18:25:26 EDT
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In a message dated 9/11/98 5:01:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, atf@socent.org
writes:

<< I have purchased the Diamond Max a couple of months ago & am having
problems with
 the sponge which spits out glass particles, water, the works. It gets on my
arm &
 front of apron. I never had this problem with a older Glastar grinder. Do you
have
 this problem >>

I have the Diamond Max also and I seem to recall it used to spit everything
all over me when it was new but now only spits to the rear, mostly on the
right side.  I don't think it's the sponge, since I just replaced mine, didn't
cut it down and it doesn't spit on me, only backward same as always.

Brenda Marhon
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 16:54:16 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bio #52 Marti Woodard
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 17:38:21 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep12.123821.0>
Precedence: bulk

Since Patrick has threaten me if I don=92t get out of the Lurker mode, at
least for bio time, I will attempt to do so.

My name is Marti Woodward, I am on my way out of my 20=92s, live in Centr=
al
Texas and have been into stained glass since the mid =9180=92s. Stained g=
lass is
a medium that has kept my interest whereas oil painting, cross stitching,
and ceramics have fallen by the wayside. Once you start with stained glas=
s
it seems that you are hooked on this wonderful expression of the arts.

I am the wife of a retired Medical Service Corps Officer and traveled the
world with my husband (Woodie) for over 26 years. We have been married fo=
r
40 years and we have one human daughter, Vicki, and two canine sons, Will=
ie
(Mini Dachie) and Schnitzel. Willie is 7 years old and Schnitzel is Willi=
e=92s
son and is 3 months old.

Woodie has been very good about supporting me in my field with money and
support. He did balk a little when I bought an RBI Scroll Saw at a Glass
Show, and balked big time when I wanted to buy a plotter but all in all I
haven=92t missed out on much.

After retiring from the Army, we changed roles in our married life. Woodi=
e
now does the cooking and running while I work for 8-12 hours a day at gla=
ss.
He also finds time to work with amateur boxing as an AIBA Referee. It is
exciting to see him on ESPN2.
I took time off  a few months back in the Spring and attended Patrick=92s=
 Desk
Top Publishing  Course at our local college. I did learn a lot and use th=
at
knowledge in adapting my glass patterns to form some unusual designs. Dur=
ing
this time I learned of the Bungi group and felt like I knew many of you f=
rom
Pat=92s descriptions. The first thing I did after getting online was join=
 the
group. This is a major feat for me....I know little to nothing about
computers, but will learn. This group has been wonderful and I have enjoy=
ed
reading about the interaction among the members.

I teach Basic Stained Glass and a 3-D Angel class through out the year.
Living near a large military installation gives me plenty of new students.
Our local Art Guild is very active and the first weekend in October we pl=
an
to have our first Renaissance Faire. So all in all this is active communi=
ty.

It is very enjoyable being a part of such a friendly group.

Marti Woodard
WoodMar Studios


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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 17:25:42 1998
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Subject: non glass 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 16:14:55 PDT
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Just in a real reflective mood, in a good book, thought I would share...

"I am in my thoughts just as I am in the world.  In the world, I am 
sometimes airbourne and sometimes resting on a chimney or a branch of a 
tree, and it is the same when I am in my thoughts.  Sometimes I land in 
these feathers and attend to my personal needs, but in my mind I often 
fly.  When I fly, my thoughts lift me above this one raven into the Sky, 
where i am simply Raven." Ken Carey, from Flat Rock Journal.

Scott*sm*

****************



Scott's Stained Glass Technical Corner
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Square/8791


Proud member of:

Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html


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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 17:42:07 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bio # 53 Elizabeth (&Sam) Law
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 17:48:00 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep12.12480.0>
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OK you asked for it, Pat.

Fellow Bungians - be warned that this bio has been written over several
sessions, so please forgive if it is longwinded.  Any of you who know me
will have realised that I can never say in a few words what could be said
in many.
After leaving school I did most of a course in teacher training until
getting fed up with "Student Power" demonstrations messing up the
timetables, and I quit college in the late 60s to run away to London where
I worked happily for several years in merchant banking.  I joined the
part-time Army (Territorial Army) as a way of meeting people and having fun
weekends away on Salisbury Plain in the rain and occasional trips to Cyprus
and Germany at the taxpayers expense, but finally succumbed and applied for
a short service commission in the WRAC in 1975.  During the previous year
Sam was posted to our regiment as RSM, and we got together just before I
joined up for two years and he left the Army after 24 years service.
To fill in the time till I completed my service Sam got a job in the middle
East where he dwelt out in the desert while I played at soldiers as the
only female officer within a 100 mile radius.  Life was tough for one of us.
Anyway finally we married and both returned to UK in 1997, ending up by
buying a small sweets and toy shop in Bournemouth - the local "Tuck Shop".
I have always been into crafts, at that time mainly machine knitting,
bobbin lace, crochet and tatting, but Sam was the first into stained glass
when we came across the main importer of stained glass at a trade fair and
he fell in love.
Starting with a precut terrarium kit Sam taught himself the copper foil &
solder technique and started selling made up items to support this new
expensive habit.  Before long he discovered an old lead light worker who
was only too pleased to pass on the skills he had acquired through his
lifetime of making leaded windows in exchange for a supply of lampshades
and terrariums to give as presents to his family and friends.
It didn't take me long to get hooked too and, while Sam moved from our
garage to progressively larger ones to a workshop and then a large showroom
and workshop, I searched out specialised courses and experts in the world
of glass (painting, dalles-de-verre, pate-de-verre, sandblast and acid
etching) to widen our skills.
Sam was very taken with fusing and bending and built himself a couple of
kilns at which he spent many happy hours peering through the peepholes to
learn just what was going on in there - sometimes a work of art and
sometimes just one big blob or a thousand droplets :-(
We were also approached by enthusiasts wanting to learn how to make their
own stained glass projects and sort of drifted into teaching the craft and
- alongside that - stocking much more in the way of supplies to sell to our
students, and Sam was appointed as area distributor and authorised teaching
centre by the largest UK stained glass importer.
Eventually (as Sam often says) I saw we had a potential business that we
could live off and made a takeover bid.  We converted the sweetshop
premises into a retail stained glass shop in 1988, built a studio in the
garden and opened up as the first stained glass retailer in our area.
Several of our first browses expresses surprise that anyone could possibly
think they could make a living selling coloured glass, but we are still
here.
We found that there was quite a demand for restoration of damaged old
stained glass as well as new commissions.  We have had many interesting
stained glass commissions - mostly domestic but some church work (mainly
restoration), a set of new synagogue windows and even a new "Twin Town"
window for our local Town Hall.
Our largest sandblasting work was an 8 foot tall arched window depicting
the miracle of the marvelous catch of fish after the Crucifixion, and our
most unusual windows were to recreate two walls of windows in a modern
church in screenprinted enamelled and fired glass for which we had to find
a company that could cope with firing and toughening 88 panels of a metre
tall.
We can never complain of being bored as there is always something different
to be done.  Oh - I forgot to say that I am the computer operator in our
family and learned HTML so I could design our website and I try to keep it
up to date in my spare time
The one problem is that nowadays we have little time for our own "playing"
and experimenting with glass.
So what with selling supplies in the shop, designing and making stained
glass for other people and from next week teaching 4 Adult Education
evening classes (so far over 1,400 students through our classes) and two
Saturday classes for beginners at our studio don't be surprised that it has
taken me a long time to get around to sitting at this keyboard to write a
bio to keep Toby's teeth away from Patrick's leg.
I enjoy all the posts on bungi, and am constantly amazed by finding out how
helpful and supportive you all are to beginners and old timers alike.

Elizabeth


Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 18:00:25 1998
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From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, morn@tempest.nac.net
Subject: Gloves for handling lead and chemicals
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 19:22:31, -0500
Message-ID: <199809122322.TAA09948@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

> What kind of gloves do you all wear?  I've never used gloves but 
now I'm
> thinking I probably should?  Any recommendations?
> 
> Thanks,
> Caren

I use latex doctors exam gloves from Costco. Costs about $8.00 for 
two boxes of 100 each. Very good to use when leading, soldering and 
patinaing. Cheap, effective and easily thrown away after each use.

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026
Interested in talking glass? Subscribe to       glass@intrastar.net
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 20:04:11 1998
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From: CM Smith <cmsmith@fast.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: help with panels
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 21:51:16 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep12.175116.0>
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I have been doing stain glass for several years. I have mainly done
little projects, but have always wanted to work on panels.  I  have
several questions  I need answered before I can begin this venture. I
have  been  reading this group for sometime and feel there is a great
deal of experience  and some good advice being offered to so many
people.  I am confident that I can have my questions answered .  Well,
here are my questions. I will thank everyone in advance for there help.

- I like to work with copper foil, is it wise to do panels in foil
rather than came?

- If  I do them in foil, how big can I  make a panel?

- Re-bar/Re-strip - how big can a panel be before it needs
re-bar/re-strip?

- When do I use cement?

- Do you use cement and re-bar together?

- Can a panel have enough support with just re-bar/re-strip or after a
certain size is it wise to use a wood frame also?

Well, these are my questions.  Any advise I  receive would be greatly
appreciated. Thanks again for all you help.

Chris

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 20:28:54 1998
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: "K. See" <atf@socent.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: all we are is glass dust in the wind......
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 19:55:31 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep12.155531.0>
References: <<1998Sep11.1294.0>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

K. See wrote:

Hi ,

I cut my own sponges, from big blocks of cellulose sponge I get from
Home Depot.  That way I can control how much or little water gets to
which grinding wheel.  I also attached a piece of tubing (also from Home
Depot) with a cinch type clamp (radiator type clamp) and run the hose
down to a 5 gallon bucket that sits on the floor.  Put a couple of
tablespoons of bleach in the water to prevent pond scum from growing.

Just a few tips--

Lee

> I have purchased the Diamond Max a couple of months ago & am having problems with
> the sponge which spits out glass particles, water, the works. It gets on my arm &
> front of apron. I never had this problem with a older Glastar grinder. Do you have
> this problem? I called Mac in FL & he said to cut the sponge down a bit. Three
> sponges & it is somewhat better but not as nice a not getting wet at all. I was
> very lucky to be taught the basics from a store in VA that covered all the safety
> issues. Including the recommendation of wearing closed shoes when cutting & long
> pants when soldering. Now I have introduced other parts of the body to discuss.
> I'll be back on Monday Ya'all have a great weekend.
> 
> leestat7 wrote:
> 
> > As far as I can tell, the very small glass dust that would be harmful
> > for lungs is trapped in the water (My Diamond Max grinder may work
> > different) The larger chips are too heavy to breath, and splash all
> > over.
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 22:09:51 1998
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "CM Smith" <cmsmith@fast.net>, "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: help with panels
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 98 23:17:04 -0400
Message-ID: <199809130320.XAA14138@uz.ComCAT.COM>
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Chris has several questions, which I will answer to the best of my 
ability:

>- I like to work with copper foil, is it wise to do panels in foil
>rather than came?
You can do your panels in foil; however it's not weatherproof so must be 
installed behind glass.

>- If  I do them in foil, how big can I  make a panel?
I've done as large as 29 x 42. Somebody else please?

>- Re-bar/Re-strip - how big can a panel be before it needs
>re-bar/re-strip?
Rule of thumb: over 4 square feet, use rebar/restrip.

>- When do I use cement?
With lead came only.

>- Do you use cement and re-bar together?
I think so! The cement is to weatherproof it, the rebar is to support it.

>- Can a panel have enough support with just re-bar/re-strip or after a
>certain size is it wise to use a wood frame also?
The frame could be zinc or lead or brass; my feeling is they should all 
be framed anyway in metal before wood framing if that is your choice.

Hope this is some help. I have not ventured into the world of lead except 
for suncatchers, so can't really help with that. Others can, however, 
particularly EliSabeth in UK, who works almost exclusively in lead.

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 22:37:29 1998
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From: "Gerard" <harlquin@mpx.com.au>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: re: Lead problems
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 14:19:38 +1000
Message-ID: <1998Sep14.01938.0>
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I wonder if anybody had any thoughts about the anounts of lead in the
atmosphere due to the petrol additives. Isn't that more than you can collect
from handling lead cames and solder ?
Harlequin
www.surf.to/harlquin
discussion board at
http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb131394

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 12 22:57:33 1998
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re:Bio #52 Marti Woodward
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 21:16:34 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep12.141634.0>
Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited
Precedence: bulk

I have got to speak up on this lady here. And she just might kill me but
Marti your in Big Old Texas and I'm in little ole Washington so just try
and catch me!

Marti Woodward here is her page:
http://members.aol.com/Mar333Wood/WOODMAR.html

As we all see by the bios this week and as always the bungi group is
very, very talented. Never do we hear an ego trip by any author.

Marti is a highly talented lady who gives of herself always. She creates
beautiful art in stained glass and I am always impressed with her
awesome attitude, this is one great lady! (O.K. Marti, you can send me
that $5.00 bucks you promised me for writing this now *s*)

And Elizabeth! I know she has that awesome web site and I've lost it in
my bookmarks!! I would like to see that one again, please Elizabeth.

Thank you Patrick and Ladies for sharing!!

See you,

Pam *sm*

--
*********************************
Moswood Mountain Limited
Pamela Burns-Tappan
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html

Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/


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From owner-glass Sun Sep 13 07:06:15 1998
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Subject: Re:  all we are is glass dust in the wind......
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 09:24:08 EDT
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In a message dated 9/10/98 6:58:52 PM, CncptThnkr@aol.com wrote:

>Regarding the use of water to keep the dust down, next time you grind look
>carefully at your clothes and skin, notice the glittery coating?   If it all
>over the outside of you, it must be inside too!

Sometimes I feel like I'm eating sand. Having a tendency to either stick my
tongue out or sing to myself when I'm concentrating on something, I've taken
to wearing a turtleneck (I have several that I've cut the sleeves out of for
summer) and pulling the collar up over my mouth when I'm doing a lot of
grinding.

I also like to have my grinder down low enough so I can look straight down on
the piece I'm grinding, which keeps me somewhat "out of the line of fire." (At
home I have it on a low table and inside an old aquarium turned on its side;
at Christie's I stand on a small step stool.)

Of course (as someone else pointed out) the stuff that can really hurt you is
the fine dust (which gets caught by the water), but the glittery grit can
cause problems too. Besides the obvious, like the stuff getting thrown in your
eyes by the grinder (pass the goggles, please!), there's the well-meaning
other half who takes a towel and tries to wipe your sparkly face. Mine tried
that exactly once, and I nearly gave the poor guy a heart attack when I
yelped, "DON'T DO THAT!!!!!!!!!!" I had to explain to him that he could
scratch up my face, knock a piece of grit into my eye, etc. He now knows that
he's not allowed to touch me until I've gotten cleaned up!


Sparks
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 13 07:52:09 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!jroey
From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Johnny West
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 10:00:12 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep13.6012.0>
Precedence: bulk

Does anyone have Johnny West's address?  Is he still making frames?  I
tried to e-mail him, and it was returned.

Thanks,

Jerri

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 13 10:24:53 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: CM Smith <cmsmith@fast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: help with panels
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 12:36:15 -0400
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Precedence: bulk

CM Smith wrote:
> 
> I have been doing stain glass for several years. I have mainly done
> little projects, but have always wanted to work on panels.  I  have
> several questions  I need answered before I can begin this venture. I
> have  been  reading this group for sometime and feel there is a great
> deal of experience  and some good advice being offered to so many
> people.  I am confident that I can have my questions answered .  Well,
> here are my questions. I will thank everyone in advance for there help.
> 
> - I like to work with copper foil, is it wise to do panels in foil
> rather than came?
> 
> - If  I do them in foil, how big can I  make a panel?
> 
> - Re-bar/Re-strip - how big can a panel be before it needs
> re-bar/re-strip?
> 
> - When do I use cement?
> 
> - Do you use cement and re-bar together?
> 
> - Can a panel have enough support with just re-bar/re-strip or after a
> certain size is it wise to use a wood frame also?
> 
> Well, these are my questions.  Any advise I  receive would be greatly
> appreciated. Thanks again for all you help.
> 
> Chris
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


foil can be used for tiny things are huge things. it all depends on the
deisgn you make, that will let you know if you need reinforcement or
not. foil does'nt need cement at the end. foil will give you more detail
flexibilty then came. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 13 12:22:38 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: lead absorption
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 15:09:11 +0000
Message-ID: <199809132142.RAA09793@vger.vgernet.net>
Precedence: bulk


> There are a couple of things that haven't been touched upon.  There are
> supliments available to help rid the body of excess lead.  One is Apple
> Pectin, and the other is Fundimental Sulfur.
> 
> I find the Apple Pectin is hard on my stomach but I can take it at
> night. The Fundimental Sulfur has no side effect.  Another name for
> Fundimental Sulfur is MSM.  These are all available at most health food
> stores. <


First of all, the supplements are not helping "rid the body of excess 
lead."  All lead is "excess" since there is no metabolic need for lead.  Any 
lead is too much lead.  And yet we are all carrying body burdens of lead at
something like 1000 times what our cave-dwelling ancestors bones disclose.  

The best way to reduce middle range and low level lead body burdens is to eat 
a good diet and let time do it.  It is also helpful to be sure the diet 
contains lots of calcium so that when lead leaves a bone, your body can 
replace it with calcium.

In addition, a slightly faster decline in lead body burden will be seen if 
vitamin C is used in large doses.  There are several other "natural" 
chelating agents, but they are VERY weak.   Natural chelating agents are 
analogous to going elephant hunting with a pea shooter.

The Fundamental Sulfur/MSM stuff bothers me.  Sulfur should not be ingested 
in the elemental state.  So one wonders what  "fundamental sulfur" is.  The 
term "fundimental" is not applicable to any compound of sulfur--only to 
particles such as protons, electrons, etc.  This "fundamental" term is 
obviously misapplied by some promoter of the product. 

And what does MSM stand for?  If you take it, you should know.

My advice is the same for all supplements and nutrients: don't go near them 
until you see a chemical formula and, if it is inorganic, a structural 
formula. Then look it up on your own before scarfing down the latest voodoo 
cure. 

In other words, don't ingest anything unless you know exactly what it is, 
what is known about its behavior in the body, and in what amount it is 
present in the supplement.  


Monona

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 13 12:43:13 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: re: Lead problems
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 15:09:11 +0000
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> I wonder if anybody had any thoughts about the anounts of lead in the
> atmosphere due to the petrol additives. Isn't that more than you can collect
> from handling lead cames and solder ? <

You are asking about one of the miracles wrought by the environmentalists.  
Since lead gasoline has been banned, the amount of lead in the dust and the 
average level of lead in the blood of children have simultaneously dropped 
dramatically.  Dust from petrol additives is no longer a major contributor to 
our body burdens of lead.

And anyone who would make the argument that stained glass sources are less 
important because there are other more important sources in the environment 
just doesn't understand the concept of the body burden.  The greater the 
pollution sources of lead, the more serious additional exposure from sources 
such as stained glass become.  

However, since Ethyl Corporation took both the Canadian and the U.S. 
Governments to court and won the right to distribute manganese 
gasoline additives, we may soon have toxic problems from over exposure to 
manganese.  The U.S. EPA in particular is on record saying there will be 
potentially serious health effects associated with widespread use of 
manganese gas additives.

Monona

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 13 12:56:58 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: CM Smith <cmsmith@fast.net>, Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: help with panels
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 14:50:50 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep13.105050.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi there Chris.  I'll give you my $.02 worth to your questions.

Message text written by CM Smith
>- I like to work with copper foil, is it wise to do panels in foil
rather than came?>

I also prefer copper foil to lead came.  90% of my panels are
done in copper foil, with a zinc or wooden frame.

- If  I do them in foil, how big can I  make a panel?

My largest copper foil panel is 6 feet long by 3 1/2 feet tall.
Biggest problem is turning it over during soldering, but you
will have that problem whether you're working in foil or lead.

- Re-bar/Re-strip - how big can a panel be before it needs
re-bar/re-strip?

If it's over 2 feet in any direction, it nees rebar or restrip.  In
copper foil, you use restrip (copper-plated brass) or Strong
Line (copper-plated steel).  These go between the foiled
pieces of glass prior to soldering, and become invisible
once the piece is soldered.  If you're doing lead work, you
will use rebar (external support bars soldered to the panel)
or restrip inserted into a hollow-heart came.

- When do I use cement?

Cement is used with lead work.  With lead you only solder the
joints, not the full line.  Hence you need cement to join the
glass to the lead came.  Cement is not normally used with
copper foil work at all.  Not even when you are framing a foil
panel in zinc or brass channel, since you will be soldering
each solder line which touches the framing.

- Do you use cement and re-bar together?

Yes, since you are by default working in lead.  Now, remember
that the term "cement" in lead work means the clay-like putty which
is mushed into the lead came after all the soldering is complete.
"Cement" does not mean the cement you use to patch your
sidewalk.  Rebar is used to provide additional support for the
panel.  Rebar extends beyond the width of the panel and into
the wooden or brick structure of the window frame itself.

- Can a panel have enough support with just re-bar/re-strip or after a
certain size is it wise to use a wood frame also?<

For regular panels (no pieces jutting out), framing in either zinc,
brass or wood is required once it gets beyond the suncatcher
stage, even if you use restrip or Strong Line (I'm assuming it's
a copper foil panel).  Try to talk your client into a wooden frame.
It's stronger.  If your designs feature irregular pieces jutting out,
then you need to "frame" it using copper wire wrapped and
soldered around the entire outside surface.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 13 13:56:38 1998
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X-Path: hotmail.com!scottjf55
From: "Scott Floyd" <scottjf55@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: D-lead sopa
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 13:14:58 PDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep13.201458.0>
Precedence: bulk



  At work I use a soap called D-lead Soap.  I am not sure what the 
ingredients are but it is supposed to wash lead off of the hands after  
being exposed to it.  I will get back to you guys on the ingredients, 
does anyone else use this soap??  We ordered it from Northwest glass 
suppliers or Ed Hoy, I will get back on that too.   Hey did anyone try 
that baking soda and toothpaste concotion that is supposed to be a good 
substitute for flux???  Hmmm, gonna try that as soon as I get to the 
point of soldering something.  Got a lot to do and try so see ya!! 

Scott *sm*

********************

Scott's Stained Glass Technical Corner
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Square/8791

Proud member of:

Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html


______________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 13 14:58:05 1998
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From: Mar333Wood@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com, Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Bio # 52
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 17:19:54 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep13.211954.0>
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Pam.....the check is in the mail.
The bios are a great ice breaker, I've enjoyed each and every one. Even set up
a folder for them so I could read about each person who asks/responds to the
bungi line.

There are many people to meet online and two of the first I met were Pam and
Scott. With their comments, my ego is soaring high.

This has been a wonderful way to get inspired, to break a dry creative spell,
to learn from each other by sharing ideas and knowledge and to enjoy visiting
other sites.  Keep those bios flowing to Pat.

Marti
Woomar Custom Stained Glass
Member of The Stained Glass Artists

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 13 15:29:18 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: CM Smith <cmsmith@fast.net>
Subject: Re: help with panels
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 22:08:16 +0100
Message-ID: <1998Sep13.23816.0>
References: <<1998Sep12.175116.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

In message <1998Sep12.175116.0@?>, CM Smith <cmsmith@fast.net> writes
..........

> Well,
>here are my questions. I will thank everyone in advance for there help.
>
>- I like to work with copper foil, is it wise to do panels in foil
>rather than came?
Depends  - on size, detail, purpose, location
>
>- If  I do them in foil, how big can I  make a panel?
others will tell you, but I would add that copper foil as a pieces of
primary glazing is not a good idea.  The characteristics of the
adhesives are such that they will not form a long-term barrier to water;
they also have little flexibility, which is important in the wind.
>
>- Re-bar/Re-strip - how big can a panel be before it needs
>re-bar/re-strip?
A general rule of thumb would be to say that any panel 24" - 36" wide
will need saddle bars or other external re-inforcement every 18".  If
internal reinforcement is used, it will need to be more frequent than
that, as the materials are not so strong
>
>- When do I use cement?
Whenever you use lead came, otherwise the thing rattles, and certainly
is not water or wind tight.
>
>- Do you use cement and re-bar together?
yes if the panel is big enough to require re-inforcement
>
>- Can a panel have enough support with just re-bar/re-strip or after a
>certain size is it wise to use a wood frame also?
Anything from 24" by 24" upwards will certainly need a framework in
which it should be put.  It does not have to be wood, could be zinc
(ugh!), steel, or a variety of metals 

These, of course, are (some) British views
Steve
-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 13 16:03:57 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: help with panels
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 22:27:28 +0000
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Well said Suzanne,
Couldn't have put it better myself!
Over here in UK, we rarely put leaded panels in anything other than 
lead H-frames, other than if it's  part of a much larger stained 
glass construction set into stone/masonry, when the lead-edges are 
set into  steel frame. Sorry, I'm expressing myself badly.....
The technique of using zinc instead of lead for the edging is 
something I have noticed is more popular in USA than here.
My Best
EliSabeth 'n Toby in UK

> The frame could be zinc or lead or brass; my feeling is they should all 
> be framed anyway in metal before wood framing if that is your choice.
> 
> Hope this is some help. I have not ventured into the world of lead except 
> for suncatchers, so can't really help with that. Others can, however, 
> particularly EliSabeth in UK, who works almost exclusively in lead.
> 
> Suzanne
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> 
> 
----
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North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 03:36:56 1998
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Subject: Re: Johnny West
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 06:03:53 EDT
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Jerri,
Here is Johnny's E-mail address.  Have corresponded with him just last week so
this address is current.  Good luck!   Address:  johnnyc@mercury.net
Lenore
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 06:28:22 1998
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From: Sue Prullage <stepsue@ezl.com>
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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 07:44:46 -0600
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Pam,
	The possibilities for your panels are endless.  Children are my other
life work and I can tell you they love color.  You could do the nation
flowers or faces from different countries or flags from different
countries surrounding a large picture of a child.  If I can be of any
help please email me.
Sue
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 07:00:41 1998
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From: "Gerard" <harlquin@mpx.com.au>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: re: Lead problems
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:59:37 +1000
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well I can assure you that here in australia more than half the petrol we
use has lead additives (the other is called unleaded)
Harlequin
www.surf.to/harlquin
discussion board at
http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb131394

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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 09:03:20 1998
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From: TWLARRY@cybersol.com (Nordhoff, Larry)
To: Albert Lewis <alewis@vgernet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: lead absorption: "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:15:37 -0400
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Organization: Trade Winds
Precedence: bulk

The following comments are taken from a book called "Prescription for
Nutritional Healing" by James F. Balch, M.D. and  Phyllis A. Balch,
C.N.C. 
I have cross-referenced this book many times with others and find it to
be true and accurate in every respect.

Monona wrote,
> First of all, the supplements are not helping "rid the body of excess
> lead."  All lead is "excess" since there is no metabolic need for lead.  Any
> lead is too much lead.  And yet we are all carrying body burdens of lead at
> something like 1000 times what our cave-dwelling ancestors bones disclose.
> 
> The best way to reduce middle range and low level lead body burdens is to eat
> a good diet and let time do it.  It is also helpful to be sure the diet
> contains lots of calcium so that when lead leaves a bone, your body can
> replace it with calcium.

First of all as you say all of us have a lead burden.  Many of us carry
a load far beyond what has been considered a safe lead burden.  From
what I have read this lead collects in our organs and nerve system and
little of it leaves the body of its own accord.  It will eventually
prevent the absorption of all essential minerals including calcium.

Few of us have a healthy diet, some 70% of our population is over
weight. Much of the food, due to processing and preseratives, are
nothing more than fillers offering little nutrition. 
> 
> In addition, a slightly faster decline in lead body burden will be seen if
> vitamin C is used in large doses.

While this is true the doses have to be in the 10,000 to 20,000 units
per day.  You have to take it till you get diarrhea to accomplish what
you are speaking of.
 
 There are several other "natural"
> chelating agents, but they are VERY weak.   Natural chelating agents are
> analogous to going elephant hunting with a pea shooter.

For the average hobbyist the pea shooter used on a daily basis should
keep lead at bay.

> 
> The Fundamental Sulfur/MSM stuff bothers me.  Sulfur should not be ingested
> in the elemental state.  So one wonders what  "fundamental sulfur" is.  The
> term "fundimental" is not applicable to any compound of sulfur--only to
> particles such as protons, electrons, etc.  This "fundamental" term is
> obviously misapplied by some promoter of the product.
> 
> And what does MSM stand for?  If you take it, you should know.

Sulfur is one of the minerals that our body needs.  "an acid forming
mineral that is part of the chemical structure of nethionine, cysteine,
taurine, and glutathione, sulfur disinfects the blood, resists bacteria,
and protects the protoplasm of cells.  It aids in oxidation reactions,
stimulates bile secretions in the liver, and protects against toxic
substances.  Because of its ability to protect against the harmful
effects of radiation and pollution, sulfur slows down the aging process
and extends life span.  It is found in hemoglobin and all body tissues
and is needed for the synthesis of collagen, which prevents dryness and
maintains elastin in the skin."
The liver is one of the places that lead collects and the stimulation of
bile secretion helps us get rid of it. Fundamental sulfur is a mix of
amino acids that create the sulfur needed by the body.  MSM is a brand
mame.
> 
> My advice is the same for all supplements and nutrients: don't go near them
> until you see a chemical formula and, if it is inorganic, a structural
> formula. Then look it up on your own before scarfing down the latest voodoo
> cure.
> 
> In other words, don't ingest anything unless you know exactly what it is,
> what is known about its behavior in the body, and in what amount it is
> present in the supplement.

All the supplements you take should be natural.  They cost a little more
but you know what you are getting and for the most part any that the
body does not need are excreted.  Many doctors are coming around to
vitamin therapy and no longer think of it as voodoo.  Its too bad your
not among them.

TWLARRY
> 
>
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 11:18:04 1998
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From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: all we are is glass dust in the wind......
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:51:17 -0700
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References: <<1998Sep13.13248.0>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

My goodness.  Maybe you ought to get a Gladstar.   I sit at ground level
with mine.  It rarely spits  and when it does it is because there is too
much sediment in the reservior and needs to be cleaned.  And when it
does spit, it goes to the back and hits the gaurds.

Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 9/10/98 6:58:52 PM, CncptThnkr@aol.com wrote:
> 
> >Regarding the use of water to keep the dust down, next time you grind look
> >carefully at your clothes and skin, notice the glittery coating?   If it all
> >over the outside of you, it must be inside too!
> 
> Sometimes I feel like I'm eating sand. Having a tendency to either stick my
> tongue out or sing to myself when I'm concentrating on something, I've taken
> to wearing a turtleneck (I have several that I've cut the sleeves out of for
> summer) and pulling the collar up over my mouth when I'm doing a lot of
> grinding.
> 
> I also like to have my grinder down low enough so I can look straight down on
> the piece I'm grinding, which keeps me somewhat "out of the line of fire." (At
> home I have it on a low table and inside an old aquarium turned on its side;
> at Christie's I stand on a small step stool.)
> 
> Of course (as someone else pointed out) the stuff that can really hurt you is
> the fine dust (which gets caught by the water), but the glittery grit can
> cause problems too. Besides the obvious, like the stuff getting thrown in your
> eyes by the grinder (pass the goggles, please!), there's the well-meaning
> other half who takes a towel and tries to wipe your sparkly face. Mine tried
> that exactly once, and I nearly gave the poor guy a heart attack when I
> yelped, "DON'T DO THAT!!!!!!!!!!" I had to explain to him that he could
> scratch up my face, knock a piece of grit into my eye, etc. He now knows that
> he's not allowed to touch me until I've gotten cleaned up!
> 
> Sparks
> ----
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: help with panels
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:04:29 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep14.11429.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Elisabeth-

You're right, the technique of using
zinc borders is much more popular
in America.  Because zinc is more
rigid, there is the belief that it is stronger
than a lead border.  We don't necessarily
agree with that and, in our experience,
solder joints on zinc are much more
likely to fail than on lead.  And, of
course, there is that strange phenomenon
of the zinc raising the melting point of
the solder, which is a real pain if your =

soldering iron is NOT one of the beefier
(more expensive) ones!  Then, you =

can't get the iron to melt the solder and
wonder what the heck is going on!
You buy a new iron, you call the electrician
in - nothing helps!  Yikes!  It turns out
to be that blasted zinc border!  =


Can you tell we avoid zinc like the plague?!

;-)

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
http://www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 14:56:25 1998
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X-Path: erols.com!nadinesfolly
From: Nadine Beth Schneider <nadinesfolly@erols.com>
To: mschatee@juno.com
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------6C67835ECDE6294A4892C373"
Subject: Re: lead absorption through skin
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:14:36 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep14.131436.0>
References: <<1998Sep12.204123.0>>
Organization: Custom Art Glass Studio
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Caren. . .
I wear Nitrile gloves and love them.  They fit just like a second
skin and I find I work and do anything in them. . .almost forget
I have them on.  I get mine from Houston Stained Glass, but I
know they are sold at industrial supply places all over. Mine
are made by Best Products and they are blue.
                                        Nadine

> What kind of gloves do you all wear?  I've never used gloves but now
> I'm
> thinking I probably should?  Any recommendations?
>
> Thanks,
> Caren
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
> ----
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begin:          vcard
fn:             Nadine Beth Schneider
n:              Schneider;Nadine Beth
org:            Nadine's Folly Art Glass Studio
email;internet: nadinesfolly@erols.com
title:          www.nadinesfolly.com
x-mozilla-cpt:  ;0
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--------------6C67835ECDE6294A4892C373--

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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 15:26:44 1998
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X-Path: csi.com!doverbay
From: "Daniel" <doverbay@csi.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:16:41 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep14.71641.0>
Precedence: bulk

This is the problem I'm having...

This is my first project...sigh

I have a new Glastar grinder...and the glass has all been cut...

I have transfered my pattern to clear mylar ...then cut each peice with an
Exacto knife...
then used a sharpie indelible marker to trace the outer edge of the
mylar...now I
was told that I could just use double side tape to adhere to the glass and
even leave the mylar on while
I'm grinding...but all three different brands of double stick tape I have
tried won't hold under the water...
the patterns start sliding off the peices during a grind.


I've tried Scotch 3M double stick tape

Scotch Poster tape(also double sided stick)

and another generic double stick tape...

The sharpie black marker stays on the mylar allright...and perhaps I should
just trace around the mylar
and mark directly on the glass?...but the marker is black and I can't see
the line on darker peices..
I've even thought about fingernail polish....

Could someone give me some advise on this...

I had a brainstorm and thought I was being so resourceful and tried taping
the mylar peices the the glass
then spray painting directly over the mylar .......then I would simply
remove the mylar and grind away any
places that had paint....right?....wrong even though the paint was dry and
needed to be scraped away with
a razor....on the grinder the wheel would shoot fine peices of grit...and
water right under the paint and it
floated away....!

I've also tried using thick card stock paper but that becomes a soggy
mess...

What type of markers do others use...?  How do you get your patterns to the
glass....

Thanks in advance....

Daniel









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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 16:26:45 1998
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From: "Ralph Rognstad Jr." <rognstad@dialnet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:39:44 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep14.123944.0>
References: <<1998Sep14.71641.0>>
Organization: Marvin's Brain
Precedence: bulk

I usually cut the pieces out of normal typing paper and glue them on
with a normal glue stick. After I'm finished cutting the pieces, I soak
them in water for a hour or so and the paper comes right off.

Daniel wrote:
> 
> This is the problem I'm having...
> 
> This is my first project...sigh
> 
> I have a new Glastar grinder...and the glass has all been cut...
> 
> I have transfered my pattern to clear mylar ...then cut each peice with an
> Exacto knife...
> then used a sharpie indelible marker to trace the outer edge of the
> mylar...now I
> was told that I could just use double side tape to adhere to the glass and
> even leave the mylar on while
> I'm grinding...but all three different brands of double stick tape I have
> tried won't hold under the water...
> the patterns start sliding off the peices during a grind.
> 
> I've tried Scotch 3M double stick tape
> 
> Scotch Poster tape(also double sided stick)
> 
> and another generic double stick tape...
> 
> The sharpie black marker stays on the mylar allright...and perhaps I should
> just trace around the mylar
> and mark directly on the glass?...but the marker is black and I can't see
> the line on darker peices..
> I've even thought about fingernail polish....
> 
> Could someone give me some advise on this...
> 
> I had a brainstorm and thought I was being so resourceful and tried taping
> the mylar peices the the glass
> then spray painting directly over the mylar .......then I would simply
> remove the mylar and grind away any
> places that had paint....right?....wrong even though the paint was dry and
> needed to be scraped away with
> a razor....on the grinder the wheel would shoot fine peices of grit...and
> water right under the paint and it
> floated away....!
> 
> I've also tried using thick card stock paper but that becomes a soggy
> mess...
> 
> What type of markers do others use...?  How do you get your patterns to the
> glass....
> 
> Thanks in advance....
> 
> Daniel
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 16:51:03 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!HiimLaura
From: HiimLaura@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: What I did on My Summer Vacation, or First Craft Show!
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 18:51:16 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep14.225116.0>
Precedence: bulk


Hi all, and first off thanks for all the great advice I got from those who
responed to my posts. The weekend was great! The greatist part of it (aside
fom the $), was the expierence itself - all the anticipation of wondering of
what people will think of my designs...I had four different people come back
on the second day for a 20 inch panel I sold the first day!- a great feeling -
and then seeing what moves and what doesn't, people admiring, meeting other
crafters was fun too - I really learned a lot and am surprised that it went
better than planned - I'm hooked!

Laura

P.S. - I used both the black and the white and it worked out great -
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 16:57:39 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Klmxklm
From: Klmxklm@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: D-lead sopa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:02:56 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep14.23256.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Scott:
I also use D-lead Soap -- obtainable from Alpine Stained Glass in San Diego.
Would like to know what it's made from.
"Mike" Mikolajczak
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 17:23:16 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: Daniel <doverbay@csi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:10:28 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep14.151028.0>
References: <<1998Sep14.71641.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Daniel wrote:
> 
> This is the problem I'm having...
> 
> This is my first project...sigh
> 
> I have a new Glastar grinder...and the glass has all been cut...
> 
> I have transfered my pattern to clear mylar ...then cut each peice with an
> Exacto knife...
> then used a sharpie indelible marker to trace the outer edge of the
> mylar...now I
> was told that I could just use double side tape to adhere to the glass and
> even leave the mylar on while
> I'm grinding...but all three different brands of double stick tape I have
> tried won't hold under the water...
> the patterns start sliding off the peices during a grind.
> 
> I've tried Scotch 3M double stick tape
> 
> Scotch Poster tape(also double sided stick)
> 
> and another generic double stick tape...
> 
> The sharpie black marker stays on the mylar allright...and perhaps I should
> just trace around the mylar
> and mark directly on the glass?...but the marker is black and I can't see
> the line on darker peices..
> I've even thought about fingernail polish....
> 
> Could someone give me some advise on this...
> 
> I had a brainstorm and thought I was being so resourceful and tried taping
> the mylar peices the the glass
> then spray painting directly over the mylar .......then I would simply
> remove the mylar and grind away any
> places that had paint....right?....wrong even though the paint was dry and
> needed to be scraped away with
> a razor....on the grinder the wheel would shoot fine peices of grit...and
> water right under the paint and it
> floated away....!
> 
> I've also tried using thick card stock paper but that becomes a soggy
> mess...
> 
> What type of markers do others use...?  How do you get your patterns to the
> glass....
> 
> Thanks in advance....
> 
> Daniel
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


you'll want to use a pilot gold paint marker, ultra fine. this will show
up on all glass, and it will stay put. the myler may stick better if you
shoot some spray glue on it first. let it tack up then stick it to the
glass. i personally have never tried this, since i trace all my lines
right from the pattern in the first place.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 17:30:08 1998
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X-Path: sprintmail.com!MollysGlass
From: Molly Keys <MollysGlass@sprintmail.com>
To: Daniel <doverbay@csi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------44506966D81B1B5E1011014A"
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 18:04:34 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep14.13434.0>
References: <<1998Sep14.71641.0>>
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Daniel,
If you are not using a light box to trace onto the glass with a permanent
marker, then I suggest you go the local "Wal-Mart" and look in the school
supply section and get a glue stick.  I use one by Borden's and the color is
purple.  After I have cut out the piece whether by hand or using the saw I then
have to soak it in warm sudsy water to get the paper and glue off.   It will
hold the mylar.
Molly Keys

Daniel wrote:

> This is the problem I'm having...
>
> This is my first project...sigh
>
> I have a new Glastar grinder...and the glass has all been cut...
>
> I have transfered my pattern to clear mylar ...then cut each peice with an
> Exacto knife...
> then used a sharpie indelible marker to trace the outer edge of the
> mylar...now I
> was told that I could just use double side tape to adhere to the glass and
> even leave the mylar on while
> I'm grinding...but all three different brands of double stick tape I have
> tried won't hold under the water...
> the patterns start sliding off the peices during a grind.
>
> I've tried Scotch 3M double stick tape
>
> Scotch Poster tape(also double sided stick)
>
> and another generic double stick tape...
>
> The sharpie black marker stays on the mylar allright...and perhaps I should
> just trace around the mylar
> and mark directly on the glass?...but the marker is black and I can't see
> the line on darker peices..
> I've even thought about fingernail polish....
>
> Could someone give me some advise on this...
>
> I had a brainstorm and thought I was being so resourceful and tried taping
> the mylar peices the the glass
> then spray painting directly over the mylar .......then I would simply
> remove the mylar and grind away any
> places that had paint....right?....wrong even though the paint was dry and
> needed to be scraped away with
> a razor....on the grinder the wheel would shoot fine peices of grit...and
> water right under the paint and it
> floated away....!
>
> I've also tried using thick card stock paper but that becomes a soggy
> mess...
>
> What type of markers do others use...?  How do you get your patterns to the
> glass....
>
> Thanks in advance....
>
> Daniel
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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n:              Keys;Molly
org:            Molly's Stained glass
email;internet: MollysGlass@sprintmail.com
title:          Owner
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x-mozilla-html: FALSE
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--------------44506966D81B1B5E1011014A--

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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 17:42:55 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon
From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: help with panels
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:16:57 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep14.231657.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 9/14/98 4:03:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
GreerStudios@compuserve.com writes:

<<  Because zinc is more
 rigid, there is the belief that it is stronger
 than a lead border.  We don't necessarily
 agree with that and, in our experience,
 solder joints on zinc are much more
 likely to fail than on lead.  And, of
 course, there is that strange phenomenon
 of the zinc raising the melting point of
 the solder, which is a real pain if your  
 soldering iron is NOT one of the beefier
 (more expensive) ones!  
  
 Can you tell we avoid zinc like the plague?! >>

I got this post just in the nick of time!  Finished a panel last night that
seems a bit shaky even though I reinforced with restrip in three places and
thought I would try the zinc to frame it.  I think I'll stick with the lead.

Thanks!
Brenda Marhon
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 17:59:56 1998
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X-Path: csi.com!doverbay
From: "Daniel" <doverbay@csi.com>
To: <morn@nac.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:45:58 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep14.94558.0>
Precedence: bulk

Thanks to everyone for tips on the pattern transfers....with both my
mailinglists and two newsgroups...I have
gotten over thirty replies....(allmost all of them different..ha...)..

The main consensus seems to be for me to use a glue stick....

and I'm looking tomorrow for either

a Pilot GoldPaint marker...

or a Stabilo marker...(german)...

I'm sure I'll try most of these and let eveyone know how it's working...

A million thanks...to everyone...

Daniel



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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 18:39:46 1998
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 20:40:57 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep14.164057.0>
Precedence: bulk

Daniel,

I'm a retailer and teach the art.  My method is to make a three part set of
the pattern.  The top is a tracing of the artwork, the second layer is
pellon, the third is cardboard,or oak tag.  The pattern is traced with
carbon paper between the layers so they're all the same.  Number each piece
of the pattern so that after it's cut out you know where they fit..

Cut the cardboard to individual pieces.  Wash the glass before you trace the
pattern.  Use a paint pen to trace the pattern pieces.  Be sure that you
number each piece of glass before you cut them out.  Assemble the work on
the pellon sheet grinding, if needed, to fit.  Paint pens are available in
several colors....I use red the most.

Good luck,

Arnold Schneider    Creekside Creations    Richfield, Pa.

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel <doverbay@csi.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Monday, September 14, 1998 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...


>This is the problem I'm having...
>
>This is my first project...sigh
>
>I have a new Glastar grinder...and the glass has all been cut...
>
>I have transfered my pattern to clear mylar ...then cut each peice with an
>Exacto knife...
>then used a sharpie indelible marker to trace the outer edge of the
>mylar...now I
>was told that I could just use double side tape to adhere to the glass and
>even leave the mylar on while
>I'm grinding...but all three different brands of double stick tape I have
>tried won't hold under the water...
>the patterns start sliding off the peices during a grind.
>
>
>I've tried Scotch 3M double stick tape
>
>Scotch Poster tape(also double sided stick)
>
>and another generic double stick tape...
>
>The sharpie black marker stays on the mylar allright...and perhaps I should
>just trace around the mylar
>and mark directly on the glass?...but the marker is black and I can't see
>the line on darker peices..
>I've even thought about fingernail polish....
>
>Could someone give me some advise on this...
>
>I had a brainstorm and thought I was being so resourceful and tried taping
>the mylar peices the the glass
>then spray painting directly over the mylar .......then I would simply
>remove the mylar and grind away any
>places that had paint....right?....wrong even though the paint was dry and
>needed to be scraped away with
>a razor....on the grinder the wheel would shoot fine peices of grit...and
>water right under the paint and it
>floated away....!
>
>I've also tried using thick card stock paper but that becomes a soggy
>mess...
>
>What type of markers do others use...?  How do you get your patterns to the
>glass....
>
>Thanks in advance....
>
>Daniel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 19:05:10 1998
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X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen
From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: What I did on My Summer Vacation, or First Craft Show!
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:53:58 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <199809150053.RAA18474@ns2.vphos.net>
Precedence: bulk

>To: HiimLaura@aol.com
>From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
>Subject: Re: What I did on My Summer Vacation, or First Craft Show!
>
>
>Laura,
>Now that's a success story I love to hear.
>I sure hope you reflect and give yourself a big pat on the back.
>"They" say only for one day though,...then get back to work, chuckle.
>So glad it went well and you had a fabulous time!
>Cindy
>
>
>
>>Hi all, and first off thanks for all the great advice I got from those who
>>responed to my posts. The weekend was great! The greatist part of it (aside
>>fom the $), was the expierence itself - all the anticipation of wondering of
>>what people will think of my designs...I had four different people come back
>>on the second day for a 20 inch panel I sold the first day!- a great feeling -
>>and then seeing what moves and what doesn't, people admiring, meeting other
>>crafters was fun too - I really learned a lot and am surprised that it went
>>better than planned - I'm hooked!
>>
>>Laura
>>
>>P.S. - I used both the black and the white and it worked out great -
>>----
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>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>>
>>
>

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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 19:31:52 1998
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X-Path: wcnet.net!fibers
From: fibers@wcnet.net (fibers)
To: Daniel <doverbay@csi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:58:58 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep14.145858.0>
References: <<1998Sep14.71641.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I'm really new at this glass stuff but I've had pretty good luck with a
"white-out" pen.
I make copies of the pattern on reguler copy paper, spray adhesive on the back
and apply it to poster board. If I'm doing a foil project I just cut out down
the center of the lines. If it's lead came I cut on one side and then trim the
remaining line of the other piece. (Is that clear as mud)?  With came I find it
helpful to first fit the pattern into the lead chanel and make any changes with
a fine point pen and trim acordingly. I mark around the pattern on the glass
with the "white out or a fine ( not ultra fine) pernenant pen. Let this dry for
a bit before you attempt to cut. If I'm using the ring saw I stay just outside
the line and grind for a final fit. That way the water doesn't wash all the
marks off.
Perhaps I'm not using enough water in my grinder but the sponge seems to bring
up enough water to keep the glass and grinder cool.
Hope this helps
Nelda
Daniel wrote:

> This is the problem I'm having...
>
> This is my first project...sigh
>
> I have a new Glastar grinder...and the glass has all been cut...
>
> I have transfered my pattern to clear mylar ...then cut each peice with an
> Exacto knife...
> then used a sharpie indelible marker to trace the outer edge of the
> mylar...now I
> was told that I could just use double side tape to adhere to the glass and
> even leave the mylar on while
> I'm grinding...but all three different brands of double stick tape I have
> tried won't hold under the water...
> the patterns start sliding off the peices during a grind.
>
> I've tried Scotch 3M double stick tape
>
> Scotch Poster tape(also double sided stick)
>
> and another generic double stick tape...
>
> The sharpie black marker stays on the mylar allright...and perhaps I should
> just trace around the mylar
> and mark directly on the glass?...but the marker is black and I can't see
> the line on darker peices..
> I've even thought about fingernail polish....
>
> Could someone give me some advise on this...
>
> I had a brainstorm and thought I was being so resourceful and tried taping
> the mylar peices the the glass
> then spray painting directly over the mylar .......then I would simply
> remove the mylar and grind away any
> places that had paint....right?....wrong even though the paint was dry and
> needed to be scraped away with
> a razor....on the grinder the wheel would shoot fine peices of grit...and
> water right under the paint and it
> floated away....!
>
> I've also tried using thick card stock paper but that becomes a soggy
> mess...
>
> What type of markers do others use...?  How do you get your patterns to the
> glass....
>
> Thanks in advance....
>
> Daniel
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 19:38:54 1998
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From: WhispyBlu@aol.com
To: doverbay@csi.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:24:04 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.1244.0>
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In a message dated 9/14/98 5:28:14 PM Central Daylight Time, doverbay@csi.com
writes:

<< Could someone give me some advise on this.. >>

Hi Daniel!

You sure have worked hard at this.  If I am tracing around a pattern piece I
use the ultra fine gold marker (Pilot).  Just let it dry a few seconds before
grinding.....actually a couple of minutes is better.  You can get a spray
adhesive to spray on the mylar but if you use that stuff spray lightly.  I
have tried various "waterproof" markers, but have found the Pilot Gold to be
the best on ALL glass, it shows up quite clearly no matter what glass you
write on and stays on through grinding.  

Lu Ann <Whispy Blu@aol.com>
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 19:57:39 1998
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From: "Scott Floyd" <scottjf55@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 18:39:57 PDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.13957.0>
Precedence: bulk


  Daniel:

  Well I have found that the Staedtler fine pen works the best, it seems 
to hold up very well under the wet grinding.  The double stick tape 
seems more trouble than it is worth.  Trace the mylar pattern with 
Staedtler pen , cut on the line, then grind off the black that remains.  
You mentioned that you used an exacto to cut the mylar, you should be 
using pattern sheers which cut a thin strip to allow for the foil width.  

Scott *sm*

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 20:30:23 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: all we are is glass dust in the wind......
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:39:43 EDT
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In a message dated 9/14/98 7:19:35 PM, balloch@netbridge.net wrote:

>My goodness.  Maybe you ought to get a Gladstar.   I sit at ground level
>with mine. [...]
>
>Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote:
>> 
>> [...] I also like to have my grinder down low enough so I can look straight
down on
>> the piece I'm grinding, which keeps me somewhat "out of the line of fire."

A point of clarification about looking straight down on the piece I'm
grinding: while it does keep me out of the line of fire of grit, the main
reason I do it is so I can see exactly what I'm doing. I have a hard time
gauging exactly where that bit is from the side, so sometimes my grinding
isn't as accurate as it ought to be. Looking at it from above takes care of
that.


Sparks
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 20:47:36 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: help with panels
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:39:48 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.23948.0>
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In a message dated 9/14/98 9:03:46 PM, GreerStudios@compuserve.com wrote:

>And, of
>course, there is that strange phenomenon
>of the zinc raising the melting point of
>the solder

I doubt that it's actually raising the melting point of the solder (OK, so
maybe in the microlayer that melts and alloys with it, but not on the larger
scale), but it sure does conduct a lot of heat away from the joint you're
trying to solder, so the net effect is the same - you want to turn your iron
way the hell up to compensate. I notice a similar thing happening when I'm
putting together a square corner using one of those aluminum corner jigs. That
big old sheet of aluminum sucks the heat right away. So will a big glob of
fill solder, or just about any metal in contact with what you're trying to
heat up.....


Sparks
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 21:25:29 1998
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From: WhispyBlu@aol.com
To: suzy@ComCAT.COM, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:32:49 EDT
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In a message dated 9/14/98 10:22:10 PM Central Daylight Time, suzy@ComCAT.COM
writes:

<< Yes, LuAnn, it does all that.  However I find those Pilot Pens to be 
 extremely frustrating -- they stop writing in the middle of lines, they 
 dry out never to be refreshed, or they blob and have to be thrown out. 
 And at $3/shot, I think they're expensive. >>

Hi Suzanne!

I'm sorry you've had such a bad time with them.  I have not had the problems
that you have mentioned above.  I do recap immediately after using it, even if
it's only going to be a very short time before I use it again.  I found if
shaking it a little before using it each time and using a very light hand when
tracing has eliminated the excess of ink.  I agree they are pricey, but they
are the only thing I have found that holds up through grinding.  Of course I
am open to try any others that I haven't tried yet.....which probably means
they are a new product.

Lu Ann
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 14 21:52:22 1998
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: <WhispyBlu@AOL.COM>, <doverbay@csi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 98 22:54:11 -0400
Message-ID: <199809150257.WAA15282@uz.ComCAT.COM>
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LuAnn (Whispy Blue@aol.com writes:
If I am tracing around a pattern piece I
>use the ultra fine gold marker (Pilot).  Just let it dry a few seconds before
>grinding.....actually a couple of minutes is better. (snip) I
>have tried various "waterproof" markers, but have found the Pilot Gold to be
>the best on ALL glass, it shows up quite clearly no matter what glass you
>write on and stays on through grinding.  

Yes, LuAnn, it does all that. However I find those Pilot Pens to be 
extremely frustrating - they stop writing in the middle of lines, they 
dry out never to be refreshed, or they blob and have to be thrown out. 
And at $3/shot, I think they're expensive.

Does anybody have any other alternatives? 

Suzanne

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 01:32:20 1998
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 04:01:00 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: lead absorption
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 06:14:42 +0000
Message-ID: <199809151250.IAA16938@vger.vgernet.net>
Precedence: bulk

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------

 We are all 
busy eliminating lead, it's just that we do it slowly.  There is tons of data 
on reduction of blood lead and body burdens with time.  It takes a long time 
but, except in severe overexposures, it is safer and easier on the kidneys to 
let the body do it than to chelate. The man should try reading standard 
sources instead of voodoo tracts.


> From what I have read this lead collects in our organs and nerve system and
> little of it leaves the body of its own accord.  It will eventually 
> prevent the absorption of all essential minerals including calcium. <

You read wrong.  The vast majority is stored in bones, not in organs and 
nerves.  And we are slowly and constantly replacing the calcium and lead 
in our bones with fresh calcium and lead.  If we reduce the lead and 
supply the body with lots of calcium, we slowly loose that body burden.


Only very small amounts of lead get into to the nervous system, but these 
small amounts cause devastating effects.  Even at very low doses, lead lowers 
mental acuity--which might explain your comments.


> For the average hobbyist the pea shooter used on a daily basis should
> keep lead at bay. <

Dream on.  


> Sulfur is one of the minerals that our body needs.  "an acid forming
> mineral that is part of the chemical structure of nethionine, cysteine,
>taurine, and glutathione,   <   [sic: methionine]


Sulfur is not a "mineral," it is a non-metallic element.  And it is certainly 
not a "mineral" in the nutritional sense either.  There is no RDI for 
elemental sulfur. Its toxic in this form.  It is only a part of other 
molecules such as the amino acids.


>  sulfur disinfects the blood, resists bacteria, and protects the protoplasm 
> of cells. <


The hell it does.


> It aids in oxidation reactions, stimulates bile secretions in the liver, 
> and protects against toxic substances. Because of its ability to protect 
> against the harmful effects of radiation and pollution, sulfur slows down 
> the aging process and extends life span. It is found in hemoglobin and all
> body tissues and is needed for the synthesis of collagen, which prevents 
> dryness and maintains elastin in the skin." 


That is just as dumb as saying that since nitrogen is also an element in 
those amino acids that nitrogen is the entity causing all those effects.  
The effects are the work of the whole amino acid, the oxygen carrying ability 
of complex hemoglobin, etc.

And to be perfectly frank, these sulfur-containing amino acids are 
non-essential and don't do all that much.  I'd especially watch out for 
adding a source of cysteine to my diet if I had a tendency to kidney stones.


> The liver is one of the places that lead collects and the stimulation of 
> bile secretion helps us get rid of it. <


Not on your life.  It collects in bones primarily and the major organ of 
excretion is the kidney.


> Fundamental sulfur is a mix of amino acids that create the sulfur needed by 
> the body. MSM is a brand mame. <


Then tout the whole amino acids not the sulfur, nitrogen, carbon, hydrogen or 
oxygen from which they are made.  


And just how do you think you eliminate all this sulfur from the metabolism 
of these sulfur-containing amino acids?  Phew!  They should recommend downing 
them with a chaser of Beano.  Maybe Fundamental Sulfur fights disease by 
keeping people FAR away from you.


>  Many doctors are coming around to vitamin therapy and no longer think of 
> it as voodoo.  Its too bad your not among them. <

I think vitamins are fine.  Take 'em every day.  But 
calling various non-essential sulfur-containing amino acids "fundamental 
sulfur" and saying its the sulfur that is doing the job is misleading and 
misinforming people.  In fact, it's voodoo.


Monona
ACTS
181 Thompson St., # 23
New York NY 10012-2586   212/777-0062

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 04:16:23 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: D-lead soap
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 06:14:42 +0000
Message-ID: <199809151250.IAA16951@vger.vgernet.net>
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I'm sorry, I lost the address of the person who posted the following 
message. Please raise your hand if you wrote it. <s>

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
  At work I use a soap called D-lead Soap.  I am not sure what
the  ingredients are but it is supposed to wash lead off of the
hands after   being exposed to it.  I will get back to you guys
on the ingredients,  does anyone else use this soap??  We ordered
it from Northwest glass  suppliers or Ed Hoy, I will get back on
that too.   
---------------------------------------------

Albert
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 06:10:19 1998
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From: LJ Maas <artist@busprod.com>
To: WhispyBlu@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 07:26:59 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.22659.0>
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Precedence: bulk

I've used good old rubber cement and the mylar sticks to the glass well
enough.
LJ
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 08:05:05 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: raising hand 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 07:26:06 PDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.14266.0>
Precedence: bulk


 HI Albert that was me that was talking about D-lead soap, what's up??

 Scott *sm*

********************

Scott's Stained Glass Technical Corner
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Square/8791

Proud member of:

Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html


______________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 08:37:14 1998
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X-Path: csi.com!doverbay
From: "Daniel" <doverbay@csi.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Pattern success!!!!
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 07:40:29 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.04029.0>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BDE07C.1C9168A0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

A million thanks everyone...

Last night I used a glue stick on my patterns....let them dry =
overnight...and voila....excellent success this
morning...!!..
=20
I still am going to try to get one of those very fine pilot gold pens, a =
yellow stained glass marker...
and a paint-pen....
=20
So I'll go back to lurk mode..........and let everyone know how this =
thing turns out...:)
=20
Daniel
=20
P.S.  There is a NEW stained glass newsgroup....on MSN...(they have gone =
public).
=20
the people there are very friendly....
=20
the server name is=20
=20
msnnews.msn.com
=20
and the group is
=20
msn.forums.crafts.general
=20

later   Daniel
=20

=20
=20
=20

------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BDE07C.1C9168A0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<DIV>A million thanks everyone...</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">Last night I used a glue =
stick on=20
my patterns....let them dry overnight...and voila....excellent success=20
this</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
#ffffff">morning...!!..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">I still am going to try =
to get one=20
of those very fine pilot gold pens, a yellow stained glass=20
marker...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">and a =
paint-pen....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">So I'll go back to lurk=20
mode..........and let everyone know how this thing turns =
out...:)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">Daniel</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">P.S.&nbsp; There is a NEW =
stained=20
glass newsgroup....on MSN...(they have gone public).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">the people there are very =

friendly....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">the server name is =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
#ffffff">msnnews.msn.com</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">and the group =
is</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
#ffffff">msn.forums.crafts.general</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">later&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Daniel</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
#ffffff"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BDE07C.1C9168A0--



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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 12:37:11 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Leslye2
From: Leslye2@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: ?placement of rebar
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:52:02 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.18522.0>
Precedence: bulk

I am making a window for our front door 22x36.  It has a 1.5" border of ripple
gass, an inside border of 1" strip bevels and a large cluster in the middle.
The inside area has 4 horizontal lines, the middle 2 are broken due to the
bevel. All this means lots of lead lines.  I know I need at least 1 horizontal
line of rebar but can't figure out where to put it.  It is going to have to go
through glass, either the bevel or the clear baroque.  Which would be better?
Does the rebar placement have to be centered or can I go above or below
center?
Do I want to try to have it over a lead line if it doesn't have to be
centered?

Thanks for your expertise,
Leslye
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 13:01:32 1998
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From: Leslye2@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: ?placement of rebar
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:52:03 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.18523.0>
Precedence: bulk

I am making a window for our front door 22x36.  It has a 1.5" border of ripple
gass, an inside border of 1" strip bevels and a large cluster in the middle.
The inside area has 4 horizontal lines, the middle 2 are broken due to the
bevel. All this means lots of lead lines.  I know I need at least 1 horizontal
line of rebar but can't figure out where to put it.  It is going to have to go
through glass, either the bevel or the clear baroque.  Which would be better?
Does the rebar placement have to be centered or can I go above or below
center?
Do I want to try to have it over a lead line if it doesn't have to be
centered?

Thanks for your expertise,
Leslye
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 15:40:25 1998
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X-Path: email.msn.com!bird_cage
From: "Doug Parrott" <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
To: "bungi group" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: exporting to Japan
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:46:00 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.7460.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi,

My husband took a message a couple hours ago from a gal in Vancouver BC. (We
live in the Seattle area)  Apparently the gal saw some of my garden art and
is interested in purchasing to sell in Japan.   I tried to call the gal back
but she is out of the office until tomorrow.  My question to you folks
is..... does anyone know anything about exporting merchandise to Japan.  I
know nothing!!!!    I am not sure how much she wants or any specifics at
all.  I just need to know if this is going to be a big hassle.   If anyone
could shed some light on exporting out of the country I would sure
appreciate it.   I have never shipped my items and I know that may be a bit
of a hassle.


Thanks for your input.


Cheryl Parrott
The Glass Parrott
bird_cage@msn.com




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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 16:48:17 1998
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charles_Spitzer
From: Charles_Spitzer@stratus.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="exporting"
Subject: exporting to Japan
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:48:42 -0700
Message-ID: <H00000c300991f11@MHS>
References: <<"1998Sep15.7460.0*"@MHS>>
Precedence: bulk

this is going to be a big hassle.

japan has a lot of barriers to importing stuff. they have to be tested,
warranteed, taxed, and lot of paperwork done for this. i would get the
other person to do everything.

furthermore, it's going to be expensive and slow to ship stuff there.
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 17:19:33 1998
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From: Charles_Spitzer@stratus.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Lead"
Subject: Lead discussion
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:30:52 -0700
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here's an interesting cnn article about a new study about the
accumulation of lead, and how it has changed in history.

http://cnn.com/TECH/science/9809/14/bog.history.ap/index.html

charlie
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 17:36:46 1998
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: exporting to Japan
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:11:53 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.151153.0>
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Cheryl,

I suggest you speak to your friendly banker, no initial cost for
information, regarding letters of credit.  You need to have payment locked
in before you ship.  It's almost impossible to collect unpaid invoices from
overseas accounts.  Good luck...It sounds very interesting.

Arnold Schneider    Creekside Creations    Richfield, Pa.
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Parrott <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
To: bungi group <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 7:04 PM
Subject: exporting to Japan


>Hi,
>
>My husband took a message a couple hours ago from a gal in Vancouver BC.
(We
>live in the Seattle area)  Apparently the gal saw some of my garden art and
>is interested in purchasing to sell in Japan.   I tried to call the gal
back
>but she is out of the office until tomorrow.  My question to you folks
>is..... does anyone know anything about exporting merchandise to Japan.  I
>know nothing!!!!    I am not sure how much she wants or any specifics at
>all.  I just need to know if this is going to be a big hassle.   If anyone
>could shed some light on exporting out of the country I would sure
>appreciate it.   I have never shipped my items and I know that may be a bit
>of a hassle.
>
>
>Thanks for your input.
>
>
>Cheryl Parrott
>The Glass Parrott
>bird_cage@msn.com
>
>
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 17:49:38 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  Pattern success!!!!
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:13:51 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.01351.0>
Precedence: bulk


In a message dated 9/15/98 4:38:14 PM, doverbay@csi.com wrote:

>I still am going to try to get one of those very fine pilot gold pens, a =
>yellow stained glass marker...
>and a paint-pen....

Just stay far away from those Marvy/Uchida "Deco-Color" paint pens. They have
an alarming habit of falling apart. The point assembly gets stuck in the cap
and pulls right out of the barrel. And when they're not falling apart, they're
spewing globs of ink all over the place when you "press down on point until
color appears" as the instructions say.

In my experience, fiber-point paint pens in general work far better and leak
far less than roller ball or plastic-point ones.


Sparks
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 18:17:33 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Lead billboard
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:39:03 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.16393.0>
Precedence: bulk

Has anyone seen the billboard
that says:

'Always ask, "Is it love or is it
lead poisoning?"

What does it mean???  Huh?
Sometimes, I feel like I'm living
on a different planet from the =

rest of the world!

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
http://www.igga/org/greer/   =

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 18:37:53 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:alewis@vgernet.net" <alewis@vgernet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: IGGA Online News Memo
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:39:18 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.163918.0>
Precedence: bulk

Spectrums' referral site sounds
great, Albert.  Now is there any
way to link their site to IGGA's =

so that all us members can be
referred to architects and designers?
;-)  Just a thought!

Best,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 18:49:49 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Article on Light Healing
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 98 20:41:29 -0400
Message-ID: <199809160045.UAA22642@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Everybody,

The article on Healing with Light, from the London Sunday Times, is here 
and available for anyone who would like to read it. It's long, so I ask 
that you E-mail me privately and I will send it along.

There are accompanying pictures, in their own separate files as 
attachments; I will not send these unless specifically requested.

It's a dynamite article!

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 18:56:24 1998
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X-Path: infinet.com!glasscat
From: Carolyn Noel <glasscat@infinet.com>
To: Witchdoc3@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: all we are is glass dust in the wind......
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:28:50 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.162850.0>
References: <<1998Sep13.13248.0>>
Organization: The Stained Glass Place
Precedence: bulk

What about using a face shield for the grinder? I give them to the
customer free with the purchase of a grinder. Gotta have one if you're
using a grinder. 
Carolyn
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 19:06:40 1998
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X-Path: infinet.com!glasscat
From: Carolyn Noel <glasscat@infinet.com>
To: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:54:47 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.165447.0>
References: <<199809150257.WAA15282@uz.ComCAT.COM>>
Organization: The Stained Glass Place
Precedence: bulk

The EZ Trace White pens are great! They don't get clogged up or "blob"
all over the place.
Carolyn
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 19:23:20 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "Doug Parrott" <bird_cage@email.msn.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: exporting to Japan
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:55:49 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.105549.0>
Precedence: bulk

Did I miss something?

If someone wants to buy YOUR stuff to export anywhere, why should you do the
leg work to find out about it.

Sell her a bunch of stones and let it be a learning experience for her.

I have looked into exporting lampshades via the usual carriers and it seemed
to me they thought they were doing me a favor by delivering. None of them
were cheap, limited delivery some cases only only to the airport and of
course VERY expensive to insure my shades. One of the countries had a
MAXIMUM of $1,000.00 per package. It would have been cheaper for me to carry
on a few and baggage the rest. Plus side I would have gotten to visit the
country (s) as well.

Have trouble keeping up with my "in-country" sales and decided I did NOT
need the hassle.

enjoy, H

weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard   best lamps on the "net"
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 20:40:42 1998
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X-Path: home.com!kristc
From: Kris <kristc@home.com>
To: Doug Parrott <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: exporting to Japan
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:56:56 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.165656.0>
References: <<1998Sep15.7460.0>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

You said she is "interested in purchasing to sell to Japan." If she buys
your art, pays you for it, she can so whatever she pleases with it after
that. All the overseas selling would be her headache. I don't know a
thing about it either and I don't think I would be interested in
learning! I see headaches, red tape, minefields......eeewwww!  Good
luck!

Kris

Doug Parrott wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> My husband took a message a couple hours ago from a gal in Vancouver BC. (We
> live in the Seattle area)  Apparently the gal saw some of my garden art and
> is interested in purchasing to sell in Japan.   I tried to call the gal back
> but she is out of the office until tomorrow.  My question to you folks
> is..... does anyone know anything about exporting merchandise to Japan.  I
> know nothing!!!!    I am not sure how much she wants or any specifics at
> all.  I just need to know if this is going to be a big hassle.   If anyone
> could shed some light on exporting out of the country I would sure
> appreciate it.   I have never shipped my items and I know that may be a bit
> of a hassle.
> 
> Thanks for your input.
> 
> Cheryl Parrott
> The Glass Parrott
> bird_cage@msn.com
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 20:58:53 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Carolyn Noel <glasscat@infinet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:34:47 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep15.183447.0>
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Does anybody except me still
use white china markers or =

black Sharpies to trace pattern
pieces? ;-)  I'm starting to feel
like a fine wine.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
http://www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 22:39:20 1998
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From: Molly Keys <MollysGlass@sprintmail.com>
To: Doug Parrott <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------B8EDA5BF4926254EAF1D91C6"
Subject: Re: exporting to Japan
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:16:56 -0500
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Hi Doug,
My only experience with exporting was shipping to hotels in the Camaan Islands.
They did have a specific shipping guide they gave me to follow that listed who I
was to ship with, the date it had to be at port (to be packed in the container),
where I was to place their purchase order number on the box (this was
important).  Since this was their first order I asked for a "pro forma" ,which
means prepayment and the company had no problem with that. During my seven years
of doing wholesale gift shows this is how I handled new accounts.  It's a very
common way for small businesses to be paid and it keeps you from tying up your
overhead.
Hope this helps a little bit.
Molly

Doug Parrott wrote:

> Hi,
>
> My husband took a message a couple hours ago from a gal in Vancouver BC. (We
> live in the Seattle area)  Apparently the gal saw some of my garden art and
> is interested in purchasing to sell in Japan.   I tried to call the gal back
> but she is out of the office until tomorrow.  My question to you folks
> is..... does anyone know anything about exporting merchandise to Japan.  I
> know nothing!!!!    I am not sure how much she wants or any specifics at
> all.  I just need to know if this is going to be a big hassle.   If anyone
> could shed some light on exporting out of the country I would sure
> appreciate it.   I have never shipped my items and I know that may be a bit
> of a hassle.
>
> Thanks for your input.
>
> Cheryl Parrott
> The Glass Parrott
> bird_cage@msn.com
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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begin:          vcard
fn:             Molly Keys
n:              Keys;Molly
org:            Molly's Stained glass
email;internet: MollysGlass@sprintmail.com
title:          Owner
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version:        2.1
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 22:57:54 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr
From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Lead poisoning vs. Love poisoning
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 00:32:16 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.43216.0>
Precedence: bulk

Has anyone seen the billboard
that says:

'Always ask, "Is it love or is it
lead poisoning?"

What does it mean???  Huh?
Sometimes, I feel like I'm living
on a different planet from the =
rest of the world!

Personally have never seen the billboard, what is it advertising?   

We can either work on this logically or do it my way.   I would determine both
the symptoms of lead poisoning and being in love and see if any are similar.
I am a bit more familiar with being in love so can we start there?   Does lead
poisoning make you walk around with a goofy smile on your face?    Does it
make your heart beat faster?  Does it put your head in the clouds?   

You have me very curious now, where can we see this billboard?   Can you take
a picture next time you are driving by and pass it around to all of us?   I am
addicted to billboards and relish any time we can spend talking about them.

Take care guys, as always, you are great.

Pat        
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 15 23:52:49 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "Carolyn Lick" <lick@cyberus.ca>, "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bio # 52 and Cyber Gremlins
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 00:27:48 -0500
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My sincere apologizes to Carolyn Lick for misspelling her name in her own
bio. And after her coming to my rescue, what a terrible way to treat this
lady.

It's just a good thing Toby is napping (as usual) or my fine furry friend
would have a chomp.

I am now punishing myself by writing "Carolyn" in pilot gold pen on every
piece of glass I have.

Again I'm truly sorry.

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows



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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 04:29:57 1998
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From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 06:24:43 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.102443.0>
Precedence: bulk

Dani - I use the white china markers and Sharpies too.  They work great for
cutting but they do wash away with grinding.
Brenda

In a message dated 9/16/98 12:32:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
GreerStudios@compuserve.com writes:

<< Does anybody except me still
 use white china markers or =
 
 black Sharpies to trace pattern
 pieces? ;-)  I'm starting to feel
 like a fine wine >>

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 04:55:46 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Article on Light Healing
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:42:59 +0000
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Good on ya, Suzanne!!
Can now wipe the perspiration from my tired brow!!
:->
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Suzanne wrote:
> Hi Everybody,
> 
> The article on Healing with Light, from the London Sunday Times, is here 
> and available for anyone who would like to read it. It's long, so I ask 
> that you E-mail me privately and I will send it along.
> 
> There are accompanying pictures, in their own separate files as 
> attachments; I will not send these unless specifically requested.
> 
> It's a dynamite article!
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 06:23:04 1998
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Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
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Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:42:59 +0000
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Precedence: bulk

Hi Dani et al,

Yep! I do! 
If you are like ol...sorry... "fine" wine, then I must be 
"extra-fine" port!!
On the whole, I use good old fashioned "English method" with pen&ink 
carton and light-box (where necessary) and am a little amused at all 
the performance about gold-pens, sharpies, water-proof markers, and 
all the heart-aches these apparently involve. 
Ah, well.... the price of modern progress...  ;-)
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK (whose tummy is beginning to rumble 
gently...)

Dani wrote:
> Does anybody except me still
> use white china markers or =
> 
> black Sharpies to trace pattern
> pieces? ;-)  I'm starting to feel
> like a fine wine.
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 06:59:11 1998
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From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: exporting to Japan
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 05:57:45 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <199809161257.FAA28284@ns2.vphos.net>
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Hi Cheryl and all,
I tend to agree.
Seattle isn't that far from Vancouver BC.
Surely the client could come down and purchase them from you and take all
the measures to transport? IMO.
Would you be exporting to Canada, her place of business?
I don't know if you have a government agency in the States that promotes
exporting, but we have one here, New Exporters to Border States (NEBS).
Which helps BC companies to develope new markets within the USA. They also
provide a 2 day seminar in Seattle for intro into the exporting process.
Maybe you have the same?
Cindy

>
>You said she is "interested in purchasing to sell to Japan." If she buys
>your art, pays you for it, she can so whatever she pleases with it after
>that. All the overseas selling would be her headache. I don't know a
>thing about it either and I don't think I would be interested in
>learning! I see headaches, red tape, minefields......eeewwww!  Good
>luck!
>
>Kris
>
>Doug Parrott wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> My husband took a message a couple hours ago from a gal in Vancouver BC. (We
>> live in the Seattle area)  Apparently the gal saw some of my garden art and
>> is interested in purchasing to sell in Japan.   I tried to call the gal back
>> but she is out of the office until tomorrow.  My question to you folks
>> is..... does anyone know anything about exporting merchandise to Japan.  I
>> know nothing!!!!    I am not sure how much she wants or any specifics at
>> all.  I just need to know if this is going to be a big hassle.   If anyone
>> could shed some light on exporting out of the country I would sure
>> appreciate it.   I have never shipped my items and I know that may be a bit
>> of a hassle.
>> 
>> Thanks for your input.
>> 
>> Cheryl Parrott
>> The Glass Parrott
>> bird_cage@msn.com
>> 
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 08:15:28 1998
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: exporting to Japan
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 06:41:24 -0700
Message-ID: <199809161341.GAA31807@oceanus.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

Cheryl

Make your sale FOB your studio.  That way the purchaser has to look after
everything.  All you do is pack the order and take the money.

After all, you're an artist, she's the exporter.

Carol


i,
>
>My husband took a message a couple hours ago from a gal in Vancouver BC. (We
>live in the Seattle area)  Apparently the gal saw some of my garden art and
>is interested in purchasing to sell in Japan.   I tried to call the gal back
>but she is out of the office until tomorrow.  My question to you folks
>is..... does anyone know anything about exporting merchandise to Japan.  I
>know nothing!!!!    I am not sure how much she wants or any specifics at
>all.  I just need to know if this is going to be a big hassle.   If anyone
>could shed some light on exporting out of the country I would sure
>appreciate it.   I have never shipped my items and I know that may be a bit
>of a hassle.
>
>
>Thanks for your input.
>
>
>Cheryl Parrott
>The Glass Parrott
>bird_cage@msn.com
>
>
>
>
>----
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>
>

Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

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X-Path: juno.com!jroey
From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 07:14:46 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.31446.0>
References: <<1998Sep15.183447.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I'm your basic black sharpie girl.  I did buy a blue and a red when I
heard they show on some colors where you can't see the black.

Jerri

On Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:34:47 -0400 "Michael J. Greer"
<GreerStudios@compuserve.com> writes:
>Does anybody except me still
>use white china markers or =
>
>black Sharpies to trace pattern
>pieces? ;-)  I'm starting to feel
>like a fine wine.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Dani Greer
>Greer Gallery & Studios
>http://www.igga.org/greer/  =
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 08:50:41 1998
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From: "Rachelle Seguin" <seguinr@post.queensu.ca>
To: "Bungi Glass" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: help - markers and cutting oil
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:51:54 -0400
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BDE157.A29ACBE0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


I have been following the discussion re markers and water with interest. My
problem is when I trace a pattern onto glass, then go to cut it with my
oil-filled cutter, the oil that is deposited on the glass smears the lines I
have not yet cut. By the time I have done a curve, or two straight cuts, the
other lines are obliterated.

Is there something I am doing wrong? Do some markers dissolve less in oil
than others? Perhaps its the brand of cutter oil I'm using. Suggestions
would be helpful as I have found this quite frustrating recently while
working on a Mickey Mouse suncatcher with small pieces.
Rachelle Seguin



------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BDE157.A29ACBE0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D510114713-16091998><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial =
size=3D2>I have=20
been following the discussion re markers and water with interest. My =
problem is=20
when I trace a pattern onto glass, then go to cut it with my oil-filled =
cutter,=20
the oil that is deposited on the glass smears the lines I have not yet =
cut. By=20
the time I have done a curve, or two straight cuts, the other lines are=20
obliterated. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D510114713-16091998><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D510114713-16091998><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Is=20
there something I am doing wrong? Do some markers dissolve less in oil =
than=20
others? Perhaps its the brand of cutter oil I'm using. Suggestions would =
be=20
helpful as I have found this quite frustrating recently while working on =
a=20
Mickey Mouse suncatcher with small pieces.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Rachelle Seguin </FONT></P>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 09:18:32 1998
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From: "Glenn Spicer" <gspicer@seaside.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 07:21:39 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.02139.0>
Precedence: bulk

Tell me, why does it matter if the markers wash away when grinding, wasn't 
the cutting done with the glass cutter and doesn't the cutter leave a mark 
to follow to touch up to, this is just a touch up, right? Maybe a matter of 
good lighting? Am I missing something here. If I did do a minor miss cut, 
then I remark with symbols (e.g. like a wedge for a tapering touchup, a 
line for even removal, and a dot for a spot removal). If you are doing a 
lot of grinding then reassess your cutting technique, it could be the real 
problem.
?<:*?`?$??`*:>?<.....................  >?<:*?`?$??`*:>?
Glenn Spicer, The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada

-----Original Message-----
From:	BMarhon@aol.com [SMTP:BMarhon@aol.com]
Sent:	Wednesday, September 16, 1998 3:25 AM
To:	glass@bungi.com
Subject:	Re: help with pattern transfering...

Dani - I use the white china markers and Sharpies too.  They work great for
cutting but they do wash away with grinding.
Brenda

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 09:29:36 1998
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From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:28:13 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.52813.0>
Precedence: bulk

You will find that if you wash the glass, even just rinse it off, before you
mark it with the marker that it will hold up better when sawing or grinding.
The reason is that there is a film on glass.  When you mark, you mark on the
film, not the glass.  When the water of your grinder hits the glass it
washes off the film and the marker, even if you use waterproof paint.

Arnold Schneider    Creekside Creations    Richfield, Pa.
-----Original Message-----
From: BMarhon@aol.com <BMarhon@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 16, 1998 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...


>Dani - I use the white china markers and Sharpies too.  They work great for
>cutting but they do wash away with grinding.
>Brenda
>
>In a message dated 9/16/98 12:32:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>GreerStudios@compuserve.com writes:
>
><< Does anybody except me still
> use white china markers or =
>
> black Sharpies to trace pattern
> pieces? ;-)  I'm starting to feel
> like a fine wine >>
>
>----
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 09:50:21 1998
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From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 06:05:59 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <199809161305.GAA06561@ns2.vphos.net>
Precedence: bulk

Dani,
I haven't used a white china marker.
Do they work well?
It's getting harder to see the line marks on dark glass, grin.
I use a fine point black Staedtler.
Fine wines are very nice!
Cindy

>
>Does anybody except me still
>use white china markers or =
>
>black Sharpies to trace pattern
>pieces? ;-)  I'm starting to feel
>like a fine wine.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Dani Greer
>Greer Gallery & Studios
>http://www.igga.org/greer/  =
>
>----
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>
>

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X-Path: csi.com!doverbay
From: "Daniel" <doverbay@csi.com>
To: <Glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Lead poisoning vs. Love poisoning
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 07:56:38 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.05638.0>
Precedence: bulk

>
>'Always ask, "Is it love or is it
>lead poisoning?"
>


Let me take a shot..........:0


Love is BLIND..........


    doesn't lead poisining make you blind???

Daniel





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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 10:09:56 1998
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X-Path: waterw.com!artglass
From: "pj friend" <artglass@waterw.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:46:38 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.54638.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Dani......

That is exactly what we use and all we use. Probably should buy stock in
Sharpies I think we have cases of them.

Are you still in my closet????

And nothing wrong with a fine wine!!!

my best,
pj
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael J. Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Carolyn Noel <glasscat@infinet.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 16, 1998 12:20 AM
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...


>Does anybody except me still
>use white china markers or =
>
>black Sharpies to trace pattern
>pieces? ;-)  I'm starting to feel
>like a fine wine.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Dani Greer
>Greer Gallery & Studios
>http://www.igga.org/greer/  =
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 11:39:46 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Healing With Light Article
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 98 09:46:23 -0400
Message-ID: <199809161350.JAA26880@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Everybody, 

The article on Healing with Light, from the London Sunday Times, is here 
and available for anyone who would like to read it. It's long, so I ask 
that you E-mail me privately and I will send it along.

There are accompanying pictures, in their own separate files as 
attachments; I will not send these unless specifically requested.

It's a dynamite article!

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 12:05:41 1998
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From: "Rachelle Seguin" <seguinr@post.queensu.ca>
To: "Bungi Glass" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: help - cutting oil and markers
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:10:17 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.91017.0>
Precedence: bulk

Thanks DB, sent again in plain text

I have been following the discussion re markers and water with interest. My
problem is when I trace a pattern onto glass, then go to cut it with my
oil-filled cutter, the oil that is deposited on the glass smears the lines I
have not yet cut. By the time I have done a curve, or two straight cuts, the
other lines are obliterated.

Is there something I am doing wrong? Do some markers dissolve less in oil
than others? Perhaps its the brand of cutter oil I'm using. Suggestions
would be helpful as I have found this quite frustrating recently while
working on a Mickey Mouse suncatcher with small pieces.
Rachelle Seguin



Rachelle Seguin

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 12:54:00 1998
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Wed Sep 16 10:31:34 1998
Message-ID: <1998Sep17.8734.0>
Precedence: bulk

Nothing will ever match the taste or quality of a finely aged wine.

Add me to the list of Sharpies.

The best part is that they still use them at my wife's job for
overheads. So I end up with lots of them.

Vic

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	pj friend [mailto:artglass@waterw.com]
		Sent:	Wednesday, September 16, 1998 9:47 AM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	Re: help with pattern transfering...

		Hi Dani......

		That is exactly what we use and all we use. Probably
should buy stock in
		Sharpies I think we have cases of them.

		Are you still in my closet????

		And nothing wrong with a fine wine!!!

		my best,
		pj
		-----Original Message-----
		From: Michael J. Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
		To: Carolyn Noel <glasscat@infinet.com>
		Date: Wednesday, September 16, 1998 12:20 AM
		Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...


		>Does anybody except me still
		>use white china markers or =
		>
		>black Sharpies to trace pattern
		>pieces? ;-)  I'm starting to feel
		>like a fine wine.
		>
		>Best regards,
		>
		>Dani Greer
		>Greer Gallery & Studios
		>http://www.igga.org/greer/  =
		>
		>----
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glass-request@bungi.com
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glass@bungi.com
		>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
		>

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 12:56:51 1998
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Lead poisoning vs. Love poisoning
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:58:16 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.95816.0>
Precedence: bulk

Don't kiss by the garden gate...Love is blind; but the neighbors ain't.
[boy am I old]

Arnold Schneider

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel <doverbay@csi.com>
To: Glass@bungi.com <Glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 16, 1998 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: Lead poisoning vs. Love poisoning


>>
>>'Always ask, "Is it love or is it
>>lead poisoning?"
>>
>
>
>Let me take a shot..........:0
>
>
>Love is BLIND..........
>
>
>    doesn't lead poisining make you blind???
>
>Daniel
>
>
>
>
>
>----
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 13:29:49 1998
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From: "Daniel" <doverbay@csi.com>
To: "Glenn Spicer" <gspicer@seaside.net>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:15:06 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.4156.0>
Precedence: bulk



>Tell me, why does it matter if the markers wash away when grinding, wasn't
>the cutting done with the glass cutter and doesn't the cutter leave a mark
>to follow to touch up to, this is just a touch up, right? Maybe a matter of
>good lighting? Am I missing something here. If I did do a minor miss cut,
>then I remark with symbols (e.g. like a wedge for a tapering touchup, a
>line for even removal, and a dot for a spot removal). If you are doing a
>lot of grinding then reassess your cutting technique, it could be the real
>problem.


I'm impressed that you can cut so well you can follow the pattern or light
box with a cutter...

The best I can do is  come within may a quarter or at best an eights of an
inch from the edge of the
pattern...THIS is what I need to grind off....and that is why I need an
indelible marker to trace the edge
with...

Daniel



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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 13:33:59 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: RE: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:18:38 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.111838.0>
Precedence: bulk

Ditto what Glenn Spicer said -
nothing replaces good cutting!
Your grinder is NOT a substitute
for bad cutting - all you'll do is
spend a fortune on grinder heads!
You should be able to survive =

just fine without a grinder.  =


Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
http://www.igga.org/greer/        =

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 14:39:05 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Healing With Light Article
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:48:45 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.114845.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Suzanne-

I responded off-bungi for the
Healing with Light article and it
came back with "fatal errors".  Oh,
dear... it doesn't sound promising.
Seriously, I would be interested,
but without pics.  Thanks!

Best,

Dani
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 15:00:40 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: sharpies....oil
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:04:07 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.747.0>
Precedence: bulk

Why FLOOD the glass with oil. A few times a week I put a drop of oil on the
cutting head and otherwise cut dry. By NOT filling my toyo cutters with oil,
do not have the problem of oil taking off the pattern lines.

Oil is generally used as a lubricant to allow the wheel to turn freely on
the axle.

As for sharpies fine or ultra fine works well, with green and black being
colors that do not last long. I use red and blue ones. Been using them for
MANY years and still do. Cheap, easy to find and when a student appropriates
one, not a major loss, but a warning to watch for bigger things that may
disappear.

enjoy, H


weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard   best lamps on the "net"
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 15:22:25 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, doverbay@csi.com
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 17:12:41, -0500
Message-ID: <199809162112.RAA10492@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>The best I can do is  come within may a quarter or at best an 
eights of an
inch from the edge of the
pattern...THIS is what I need to grind off....and that is why I need 
an
indelible marker to trace the edge
with...

Daniel<<

I suggest you get some scrap glass and practice cutting. Use your 
favorite marker and draw a gently curving line. Scribe along one edge 
of the line, break out and inspect for accuracy of cut. In a short 
time you should be able to hold up the two resulting pieces and see 
the edge of the line on one and no line on the other. 

Cutting glass accurately is not all that hard. Failure to learn to do 
so means that this craft is going to be a drag for you. 

If you run into problems then just yell.

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026
Interested in talking glass? Subscribe to       glass@intrastar.net
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 15:43:19 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Rachelle Seguin <seguinr@post.queensu.ca>
Subject: Re: help - markers and cutting oil
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:51:04 +0100
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.23514.0>
References: <<1998Sep16.55154.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

Rachell,

In message <1998Sep16.55154.0@?>, Rachelle Seguin
>I have been following the discussion re markers and water with interest. My
>problem is when I trace a pattern onto glass, then go to cut it with my
>oil-filled cutter, the oil that is deposited on the glass smears the lines I
>have not yet cut. By the time I have done a curve, or two straight cuts, the
>other lines are obliterated.
>
I find it best to mark and score one line at a time.  This may take
longer in the short run, but allows adjustments to be made through out
the scoring and breaking of the piece.  If I do make a mistake, I can
usually move the glass along a bit and continue, without losing the
whole of the glass piece I was working with.

So, I don't mark the whole of the piece; I start with the most difficult
cut and continue to the simplest.  Of course I tend to use a light box
and cut on top of the cartoon anyway.  I only use pattern pieces when
the glass is so opaque that no useful light passes through.  But then I
ask myself, if no real light is coming through, why am I using it?
Glass should have light coming through it!!

Just my tuppence worth.   ;-)


Steve

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Leslye2@aol.com
Subject: Re: ?placement of rebar
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:42:01 +0100
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.23421.0>
References: <<1998Sep15.18522.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

My comments interspersed Leslye.

In message <1998Sep15.18522.0@?>, Leslye2@aol.com writes
>I am making a window for our front door 22x36.  It has a 1.5" border of ripple
>gass, an inside border of 1" strip bevels and a large cluster in the middle.
>The inside area has 4 horizontal lines, the middle 2 are broken due to the
>bevel. All this means lots of lead lines.  I know I need at least 1 horizontal
>line of rebar but can't figure out where to put it.  It is going to have to go
>through glass, either the bevel or the clear baroque.  

Why does it have to go through the glass?  Why not have the bar bent to
follow the lines?  It is no less strong for being bent.  I do this
often, even when restoring.  I see no reason to spoil the look of the
thing just for a few minutes spent bending (or getting someone else to
bend) the bar.

>Which would be better?
>Does the rebar placement have to be centered or can I go above or below
>center?

It does not have to be centred or proportional, just reasonable
distances apart and from the borders to do a good job.

>Do I want to try to have it over a lead line if it doesn't have to be
>centered?
>
Of course, you want to have it concealed by a lead line if at all
possible.   :-)

Steve

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 16:18:11 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: Rachelle Seguin <seguinr@post.queensu.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: help - cutting oil and markers
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 17:35:30 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.133530.0>
References: <<1998Sep16.91017.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Rachelle Seguin wrote:
> 
> Thanks DB, sent again in plain text
> 
> I have been following the discussion re markers and water with interest. My
> problem is when I trace a pattern onto glass, then go to cut it with my
> oil-filled cutter, the oil that is deposited on the glass smears the lines I
> have not yet cut. By the time I have done a curve, or two straight cuts, the
> other lines are obliterated.
> 
> Is there something I am doing wrong? Do some markers dissolve less in oil
> than others? Perhaps its the brand of cutter oil I'm using. Suggestions
> would be helpful as I have found this quite frustrating recently while
> working on a Mickey Mouse suncatcher with small pieces.
> Rachelle Seguin
> 
> Rachelle Seguin
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


i have an entire page of markers at http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/ 

i only mention this because the black marker that's on the page is the
one i use. the grinder will make it float, but the oil usually won't
hurt it. you may be using way to much oil, if there's oil smeared on the
glass. you only need a very little bit, too much is'nt good either. it
could cause the glass to slip and cut you.

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 16:28:05 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: Glenn Spicer <gspicer@seaside.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 17:31:19 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.133119.0>
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Precedence: bulk

Glenn Spicer wrote:
> 
> Tell me, why does it matter if the markers wash away when grinding, wasn't
> the cutting done with the glass cutter and doesn't the cutter leave a mark
> to follow to touch up to, this is just a touch up, right? Maybe a matter of
> good lighting? Am I missing something here. If I did do a minor miss cut,
> then I remark with symbols (e.g. like a wedge for a tapering touchup, a
> line for even removal, and a dot for a spot removal). If you are doing a
> lot of grinding then reassess your cutting technique, it could be the real
> problem.
> ?<:*?`?$??`*:>?<.....................  >?<:*?`?$??`*:>?
> Glenn Spicer, The Studio Metamorphoses, BC, Canada
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:   BMarhon@aol.com [SMTP:BMarhon@aol.com]
> Sent:   Wednesday, September 16, 1998 3:25 AM
> To:     glass@bungi.com
> Subject:        Re: help with pattern transfering...
> 
> Dani - I use the white china markers and Sharpies too.  They work great for
> cutting but they do wash away with grinding.
> Brenda
> 
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


sometimes there's a little piece the size of a marker line, that needs
to be removed. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 16:36:06 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 17:36:56 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.133656.0>
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daver!ctronsoft.com!vmodiano wrote:
> 
> Nothing will ever match the taste or quality of a finely aged wine.
> 
> Add me to the list of Sharpies.
> 
> The best part is that they still use them at my wife's job for
> overheads. So I end up with lots of them.
> 
> Vic
> 
>                 -----Original Message-----
>                 From:   pj friend [mailto:artglass@waterw.com]
>                 Sent:   Wednesday, September 16, 1998 9:47 AM
>                 To:     glass@bungi.com
>                 Subject:        Re: help with pattern transfering...
> 
>                 Hi Dani......
> 
>                 That is exactly what we use and all we use. Probably
> should buy stock in
>                 Sharpies I think we have cases of them.
> 
>                 Are you still in my closet????
> 
>                 And nothing wrong with a fine wine!!!
> 
>                 my best,
>                 pj
>                 -----Original Message-----
>                 From: Michael J. Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
>                 To: Carolyn Noel <glasscat@infinet.com>
>                 Date: Wednesday, September 16, 1998 12:20 AM
>                 Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
> 
>                 >Does anybody except me still
>                 >use white china markers or =
>                 >
>                 >black Sharpies to trace pattern
>                 >pieces? ;-)  I'm starting to feel
>                 >like a fine wine.
>                 >
>                 >Best regards,
>                 >
>                 >Dani Greer
>                 >Greer Gallery & Studios
>                 >http://www.igga.org/greer/  =
>                 >
>                 >----
>                 >For subscription changes, please mail to:
> glass-request@bungi.com
>                 >To send to the list,      please mail to:
> glass@bungi.com
>                 >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>                 >
> 
>                 ----
>                 For subscription changes, please mail to:
> glass-request@bungi.com
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> glass@bungi.com
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i've found that a sharpie will doe almost imidiatly if touched by water
or flux. just the tiniest amount, and it stops working.

---Mike Savad

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http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 16:40:23 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 17:40:29 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.134029.0>
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Precedence: bulk

Daniel wrote:
> 
> >Tell me, why does it matter if the markers wash away when grinding, wasn't
> >the cutting done with the glass cutter and doesn't the cutter leave a mark
> >to follow to touch up to, this is just a touch up, right? Maybe a matter of
> >good lighting? Am I missing something here. If I did do a minor miss cut,
> >then I remark with symbols (e.g. like a wedge for a tapering touchup, a
> >line for even removal, and a dot for a spot removal). If you are doing a
> >lot of grinding then reassess your cutting technique, it could be the real
> >problem.
> 
> I'm impressed that you can cut so well you can follow the pattern or light
> box with a cutter...
> 
> The best I can do is  come within may a quarter or at best an eights of an
> inch from the edge of the
> pattern...THIS is what I need to grind off....and that is why I need an
> indelible marker to trace the edge
> with...
> 
> Daniel
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

i dunno, a 1/8" - 1/4" is quite alot of glass to be removed. that amount
should be done with a cutter whenever possible. usually i'm within 1/32"
- 1/16" sometimes as much as an 1/8".

---Mike Savad

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6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 16:54:45 1998
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: help - cutting oil and markers
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:08:33 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.14833.0>
Precedence: bulk

Rachelle,
Suggest you rince the glass before you mark it.  There is a film on all new
glass.  When you mark it, you're marking the film.  It probably wash off
with the cutter oil or sawing or grinding water.  You're washing the film
and the marker comes off with it.  Try it...Wash the glass and dry it before
you mark it.  Yes, it will take a little longer but it will help..

Arnold Schneider    Creekside Creations    Richfield, Pa.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rachelle Seguin <seguinr@post.queensu.ca>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 16, 1998 4:05 PM
Subject: help - cutting oil and markers


>Thanks DB, sent again in plain text
>
>I have been following the discussion re markers and water with interest. My
>problem is when I trace a pattern onto glass, then go to cut it with my
>oil-filled cutter, the oil that is deposited on the glass smears the lines
I
>have not yet cut. By the time I have done a curve, or two straight cuts,
the
>other lines are obliterated.
>
>Is there something I am doing wrong? Do some markers dissolve less in oil
>than others? Perhaps its the brand of cutter oil I'm using. Suggestions
>would be helpful as I have found this quite frustrating recently while
>working on a Mickey Mouse suncatcher with small pieces.
>Rachelle Seguin
>
>
>
>Rachelle Seguin
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 17:28:10 1998
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X-Path: classique.ca!ron
From: Ron Ternoway <ron@classique.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: Hello, desperately seeking Otto Rigan book...
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:31:17 -0400
Message-ID: <l03010d00b225f9971cb4@[199.84.45.248]>
Precedence: bulk

Hello, everyone,

My name is Ron Ternoway, and I'm a new member of the group. I operate a
stained glass store and studio in  Montreal, Canada - you can learn more
about it at our web site - http://www.classique.ca

I'm looking for an out-of-print book by Otto Rigan called "Photographing
Stained Glass" - does anyone have one they would part with, or a source of
supply?

I understand from Mike Figgy that this topic was discussed at one point on
bungi - can anyone point me to the appropriate archive?

Anyway, I'm looking forward to exchanging with you all.

Cheers,

Ron 8-}

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Ron Ternoway (ron@classique.ca)
Verrerie d'art Classique Lt=E9e.
4801 boul St-Laurent Montreal QC  H2T 1R6
t=E9l=E9phone /  (514)844-5424  t=E9l=E9copie / fax (514) 844-8293
Toll-Free / Sans frais : 1 877-VITRAIL

http://www.classique.ca
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 17:57:58 1998
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From: WhispyBlu@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:48:26 EDT
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What a positive & helpful way of putting this Bob.  I do enjoy and appreciate
the way you present your posts.  You certainly are one person who I have
always felt comfortable in asking questions to, knowing there will never be
any negative recriminations.

Lu Ann

<< I suggest you get some scrap glass and practice cutting. Use your 
 favorite marker and draw a gently curving line. Scribe along one edge 
 of the line, break out and inspect for accuracy of cut. In a short 
 time you should be able to hold up the two resulting pieces and see 
 the edge of the line on one and no line on the other. 
 
 Cutting glass accurately is not all that hard. Failure to learn to do 
 so means that this craft is going to be a drag for you. 
 
 If you run into problems then just yell. >>
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 18:15:48 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: help - markers and cutting oil
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:54:39 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.155439.0>
References: <<1998Sep16.23514.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Steve Richard wrote:
> 
> Rachell,
> 
> In message <1998Sep16.55154.0@?>, Rachelle Seguin
> >I have been following the discussion re markers and water with interest. My
> >problem is when I trace a pattern onto glass, then go to cut it with my
> >oil-filled cutter, the oil that is deposited on the glass smears the lines I
> >have not yet cut. By the time I have done a curve, or two straight cuts, the
> >other lines are obliterated.
> >
> I find it best to mark and score one line at a time.  This may take
> longer in the short run, but allows adjustments to be made through out
> the scoring and breaking of the piece.  If I do make a mistake, I can
> usually move the glass along a bit and continue, without losing the
> whole of the glass piece I was working with.
> 
> So, I don't mark the whole of the piece; I start with the most difficult
> cut and continue to the simplest.  Of course I tend to use a light box
> and cut on top of the cartoon anyway.  I only use pattern pieces when
> the glass is so opaque that no useful light passes through.  But then I
> ask myself, if no real light is coming through, why am I using it?
> Glass should have light coming through it!!
> 
> Just my tuppence worth.   ;-)
> 
> 
> Steve
> 
> --
> Steve Richard
> Verrier Art Glass Ltd
> s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

the light box may not let thr light through, but the sun may. as for the
tracing, i've found that it's best to place all lines on the glass.
otherwise you may cut along a section that you could have used for
another piece. 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
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6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 18:21:31 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: RE: help with pattern transfering...
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:55:08 +0000
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Hmmm... Dani....,
This whole conversation sounds terribly "familiar" to me.
I think I have been here before. I believe also I have received a 
couple of "earfuls"...Do I even dare to suggest that I agree with 
you. Ouch! Dangerous territorry!
 Back to the "fine quality" Port....
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Dani wrote:
> Ditto what Glenn Spicer said -
> nothing replaces good cutting!
> Your grinder is NOT a substitute
> for bad cutting - all you'll do is
> spend a fortune on grinder heads!
> You should be able to survive =
> 
> just fine without a grinder.  =
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 18:28:29 1998
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From: "Scott Floyd" <scottjf55@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: Hello, desperately seeking Otto Rigan book...
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 17:55:19 PDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep17.05519.0>
Precedence: bulk


  Hi Ron, havn't heard of that book but these articles might help you.

http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/cgg16m.htm
*************
  At this site just type in photographing stained glass,

http://www.artglassworld.com/wwwboard/index.html

Scott *sm*

********************

Scott's Stained Glass Technical Corner
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Square/8791

Proud member of:

Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html


______________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 18:58:17 1998
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X-Path: eatumup.com!byronw
From: byronw@eatumup.com (Byron Wells)
To: "Bungi Glass" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: help - cutting oil and markers
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:22:57 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.152257.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Rachelle...I use the Toyo pistol grip cutters and they seem to be very
sparing with the oil...They just leave a light trace of oil and dont mess
the lines up...Oh and I use the plain old Sanford fine permanent markers...


Byron...
Wells Glassworks

-----Original Message-----
From: Rachelle Seguin <seguinr@post.queensu.ca>
To: Bungi Glass <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 16, 1998 6:32 AM
Subject: help - cutting oil and markers


>Thanks DB, sent again in plain text
>
>I have been following the discussion re markers and water with interest. My
>problem is when I trace a pattern onto glass, then go to cut it with my
>oil-filled cutter, the oil that is deposited on the glass smears the lines
I
>have not yet cut. By the time I have done a curve, or two straight cuts,
the
>other lines are obliterated.
>
>Is there something I am doing wrong? Do some markers dissolve less in oil
>than others? Perhaps its the brand of cutter oil I'm using. Suggestions
>would be helpful as I have found this quite frustrating recently while
>working on a Mickey Mouse suncatcher with small pieces.
>Rachelle Seguin
>
>
>
>Rachelle Seguin
>
>----
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 20:04:33 1998
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X-Path: eatumup.com!byronw
From: byronw@eatumup.com (Byron Wells)
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:26:28 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.152628.0>
Precedence: bulk

Nope yer not the only one Dani...Black Sharpies are all I use except when
using extremely dark glass...

Byron...
Wells Glassworks

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael J. Greer <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Carolyn Noel <glasscat@infinet.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: help with pattern transfering...


>Does anybody except me still
>use white china markers or =
>
>black Sharpies to trace pattern
>pieces? ;-)  I'm starting to feel
>like a fine wine.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Dani Greer
>Greer Gallery & Studios
>http://www.igga.org/greer/  =
>
>----
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>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 20:19:43 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Kath8284
From: Kath8284@aol.com
To: seguinr@post.queensu.ca, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Oil Filled Cutters
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:09:43 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep17.2943.0>
Precedence: bulk

     I have used an oil filler cutter for years......have alway had problems
with too much oil coming out as I cut.  When I was recently taking a class,
the instructor was using the same cutter as I was but she was not having the
oil problem.   Upon examining her cutter I was suprised at the remedy to the
problem.

    She had looked at the new cutters on the market and found that the  oil
chamber was filled with a fiber material.  Being resourceful, she took the
idea home and made her own adjustments to her cutter.

     She drained the oil from her cutter, then filled the chamber with "Poly-
Fill" (like is used for stuffing in crafts) packing the fill in well.   Add
just enough oil to saturate the filling.  Problem solved........hope this
helps some of you who have had the same problem.   It helped me. 

Kathy
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 20:28:36 1998
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X-Path: email.msn.com!bird_cage
From: "Doug Parrott" <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
To: "bungi group" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Glass to Japan / and duplicate posts.
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:42:20 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.124220.0>
Precedence: bulk

Just wanted to thank everyone for their input regarding shipping to Japan.
The comments were all quite helpful and you have given me a lot to think
about.   the first thing I have to do is put together a brochure to send up
to Canada.  This is something I need to do anyway.  A fellow artist who does
photography will be coming over in another week to take pics. I think we
will be picking up Desktop Publisher to put the brochure together and then
off to Kinko's for the finishing work.

Once that is done and a price sheet is made up I will e-mail them to Canada
and then wait and see.

At least this is forcing me to put a brochure and price list together.

Once again I will have to say what a great group of people belong to the
bungi list.  You are all extremely helpful

Thanks again

Oh...... by the way.... am I the only one having duplicate posts coming in.
it seems like almost all of the posts are coming through at least twice.  I
don't know if my system is responsible for it or if something is happening
somewhere else down the line.

thanks again everyone.  I will let you all know how it is going.

Cheryl

The Glass Parrott
bird_cage@msn.com




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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 21:03:11 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Ron Ternoway <ron@classique.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Hello, desperately seeking Otto Rigan book...
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:21:28 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.192128.0>
Precedence: bulk

Welcome aboard, Ron.  This
is a great group of folks!  And,
a great source of information =

even for long-time professionals.

In re: the book, you might try
Whitehouse books which carries
lots of glass books including out-
of-prints.  And, of course, there's
always Amazon.  Both have =

web sites. =


Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
http://www.igga.org/greer/   =

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 21:19:55 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "Steve Richard" <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: help - markers and cutting oil
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 98 23:25:07 -0400
Message-ID: <199809170328.XAA02127@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

Steve wrote:
 But then I
>ask myself, if no real light is coming through, why am I using it?
>Glass should have light coming through it!!
>
>Just my tuppence worth.   ;-)

Amen, Steve, that was worth more than a tuppence! :)
Suzanne
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 21:38:46 1998
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X-Path: scc.net!oddjob
From: "Susan C. Reitmann" <oddjob@scc.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Sundial question
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:25:02 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.17252.0>
Precedence: bulk

Have just finished designing a combination sundial-direction =
(North,E.S.& W.)
item that I plan to install on a pedestal in our yard. I have it cut and =
foiled, ready to solder. My question is about the piece that casts the =
shadow to tell the time, (it starts with a "G", but can't recall the =
proper name).

Is there a specific place that it should be placed in order to cast the =
correct shadow? In other words, should it run for example, from say 12 =
o'clock to 6 o'clock, or some other direction. I have looked at photos =
of many, but they don't seem to be placed the same. Doesn't it matter?=20

2nd. question..The design is somewhat geometric. I think I should =
reinforce it but it will be difficult to run re-strip because of the =
many angles....would running a wire under the solder on the back side be =
adequate? It is approximately a 14" circle.

With all the knowledge here on the group I'm betting somebody has the =
answers. Thanks in advance!
Sue Reitmann

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 21:55:58 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "Doug Parrott" <bird_cage@email.msn.com>, "bungi group" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Glass to Japan / and duplicate posts.
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 98 23:34:50 -0400
Message-ID: <199809170338.XAA02791@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

Cheryl wrote:
>
>Oh...... by the way.... am I the only one having duplicate posts coming in.
>it seems like almost all of the posts are coming through at least twice.  I
>don't know if my system is responsible for it or if something is happening
>somewhere else down the line.

I've been having quite a few duplicate posts, too. Not "almost all" but 
maybe 10-20% of them.
Suzanne
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 22:03:19 1998
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X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: glass
Subject: Train Patterns
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:53:50 PDT
Message-ID: <m0zJV8g-0001WRC@daver.bungi.com>
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone,

Just had a request to do a train panel 12" x 12"
I didn't realized a pattern would be so hard to come by.
The only one I found was more for a child's room and I was wondering
if anyone's seen any good ones.

Thanks in advance...



-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 22:09:36 1998
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Light Healing Article
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 98 23:52:00 -0400
Message-ID: <199809170355.XAA04096@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

I'd like to nominate a very large "thank you" to Elisabeth and Toby, who 
spent two whole days scanning this article for us. Hope you all enjoyed 
it as much as we did.

Anybody else want it? Did the pictures come through OK, Nadine? (yours 
were the first).

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 22:14:54 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1
From: eldondo1@juno.com
To: doverbay@csi.com
Subject: Re: help with pattern transferring...
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:31:44 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.183144.0>
References: <<1998Sep14.71641.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I have been reading ,and filing all the answers pattern problems....so
here is my 2 cents worth.. I have tried many methods in the last 20
years.I do both lead and foil... When I cut the glass on the light box,
of course I cut inside the Sharpie line,when much of the pattern is too
dark I use lead shears and Mylar,and cut the pattern that way,when I do
foil I ALWAYS use Mylar,paste it on the glass with U-Stick or other, yes
even purple paste. If I have white or clear or light glass I take a soft
pencil around the edge of the Mylar so I can see the (hopeful)small
amount to grind------- I do not use sharpie for any area where there is
going to be washing or grinding.....I know this letter sounds as though I
think my method is the only one, of course everyone does what he knows,or
likes or maybe some
 just don't want to try other methods,I did and at 78, 79 in Oct. I am
still willing to give any method a fair try....Mylar on ,cut around the
Mylar, edge Mylar(with light glass) by soft pencil cut and
grind..Period......

Don <eldondo1@juno.com><eldondo@usroute66.net>For any off bungi
critique,or criticism

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:16:41 -0700 "Daniel" <doverbay@csi.com> writes:
>This is the problem I'm having...
>
>This is my first project...sigh
>
>I have a new Glastar grinder...and the glass has all been cut...
>
>I have transfered my pattern to clear mylar ...then cut each peice 
>with an
>Exacto knife...
>then used a sharpie indelible marker to trace the outer edge of the
>mylar...now I
>was told that I could just use double side tape to adhere to the glass 
>and
>even leave the mylar on while
>I'm grinding...but all three different brands of double stick tape I 
>have
>tried won't hold under the water...
>the patterns start sliding off the peices during a grind.
>
>
>I've tried Scotch 3M double stick tape
>
>Scotch Poster tape(also double sided stick)
>
>and another generic double stick tape...
>
>The sharpie black marker stays on the mylar allright...and perhaps I 
>should
>just trace around the mylar
>and mark directly on the glass?...but the marker is black and I can't 
>see
>the line on darker peices..
>I've even thought about fingernail polish....
>
>Could someone give me some advise on this...
>
>I had a brainstorm and thought I was being so resourceful and tried 
>taping
>the mylar peices the the glass
>then spray painting directly over the mylar .......then I would simply
>remove the mylar and grind away any
>places that had paint....right?....wrong even though the paint was dry 
>and
>needed to be scraped away with
>a razor....on the grinder the wheel would shoot fine peices of 
>grit...and
>water right under the paint and it
>floated away....!
>
>I've also tried using thick card stock paper but that becomes a soggy
>mess...
>
>What type of markers do others use...?  How do you get your patterns 
>to the
>glass....
>
>Thanks in advance....
>
>Daniel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 16 23:04:28 1998
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Sundial Question
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:00:57 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep16.15057.0>
Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited
Precedence: bulk

Hi Sue and all,

The word you were looking for is gnomon. This needs to correctly sit on
the dial itself in order to receive the correct time.

This site will tell you exactly how to set up your sundial.

http://www.sundials.co.uk/setup.htm

See you,

Pam *sm*


--
*********************************
Moswood Mountain Limited
Pamela Burns-Tappan
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html

Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/


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From owner-glass Thu Sep 17 04:06:53 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Romajoco
From: Romajoco@aol.com
To: Kath8284@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Oil Filled Cutters
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 06:17:22 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep17.101722.0>
Precedence: bulk

In a message dated 9/16/98 10:22:43 PM Central Daylight Time, Kath8284@aol.com
writes:

<< She drained the oil from her cutter, then filled the chamber with "Poly-
 Fill" (like is used for stuffing in crafts) packing the fill in well.   Add
 just enough oil to saturate the filling.  Problem solved........hope this
 helps some of you who have had the same problem.   It helped me. 
 
 Kathy >>

Kathy, thank you very much for you post.  That is a good idea and one that I
am going to try.  I had gotten where I would just put in a little bit of oil
but I like this idea much better.

Margie
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 17 05:06:30 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr
From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: markers and oil
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 07:35:55 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep17.113555.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hey Rachelle,

You may want to take your cutter up to the shop and have them examine it for
you.   Sounds like a lot of extra oil is escaping.   Most often I see a score
line with almost no oil on the glass.

Have the sharpie marker collection here too.   Ultra fine, fine,
regular......they all seem to have their place.   

Good luck,

Pat

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 17 06:38:41 1998
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X-Path: city-net.com!dany
From: "Daniela Birkelbach" <dany@city-net.com>
To: "Glenna Rand" <gjr@bungi.com>, <glass@daver.bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Train Patterns
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:01:07 -0400
Message-ID: <199809171150.HAA22416@dns.city-net.com>
Precedence: bulk

Glenna,

I have a pattern of a locomotive coming out of a tunnel.  It's a frontal
view with a lot of engine detail.  Steam coming out of the chimney.  Looks
very dynamic.  It's out of a book "Stained Glass to go" by Carolyn Kyle.

Dany

Daniela Birkelbach
Software Consultant
dany@city-net.com             http://www.city-net.com/~dany
*********************************************************************

----------
> From: Glenna Rand <gjr@bungi.com>
> To: glass@daver.bungi.com
> Subject: Train Patterns
> Date: Wednesday, September 16, 1998 11:53 PM
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Just had a request to do a train panel 12" x 12"
> I didn't realized a pattern would be so hard to come by.
> The only one I found was more for a child's room and I was wondering
> if anyone's seen any good ones.
> 
> Thanks in advance...
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Glenna Rand
> gjr@bungi.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 17 09:20:45 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Healing With Light Article
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:23:42 +0000
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Dani/Suzanne,

Let me know how you get on. Suzanne has now the original magazine 
which I sent her. If all else fail, I'll send you a print-out by 
snail mail, since I have a few things for you anyway.
When I first scanned it to Suzanne, a whole page went missing 
somewhere, which Suzanne patiently re-typed and sent me back a 
corrected copy. Have run out of ink for my printer, so it'll have to 
wait until next week (ink cartridges over Here cost about 55 dollars, 
roughly equivalent to my weekly food-budget :-(   )
Take care now!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

P.S. Mary Austin:  will do! Don't worry. Beg your patience...


> 
> I responded off-bungi for the
> Healing with Light article and it
> came back with "fatal errors".  Oh,
> dear... it doesn't sound promising.
> Seriously, I would be interested,
> but without pics.  Thanks!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Dani
 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 17 09:43:31 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Train Patterns
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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:23:42 +0000
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Hi,
Been scouring for that train pattern, as I distinctly remember having 
seen it.
Am now finally wondering if it was included in Spectrum's 
"freebie"-patterns. Have you checked there?
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK


Glenna wrote: 
> Just had a request to do a train panel 12" x 12"
> I didn't realized a pattern would be so hard to come by.
> The only one I found was more for a child's room and I was wondering
> if anyone's seen any good ones.
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 17 10:06:44 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: Glenna Rand <gjr@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Train Patterns
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:58:39 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep17.75839.0>
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Glenna Rand wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Just had a request to do a train panel 12" x 12"
> I didn't realized a pattern would be so hard to come by.
> The only one I found was more for a child's room and I was wondering
> if anyone's seen any good ones.
> 
> Thanks in advance...
> 
> --
> Glenna Rand
> gjr@bungi.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


spectrum had one, not sure if it's an actual pattern. but it was a
boroque challange, one of their photo's.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 17 10:14:37 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!jroey
From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: help with panels
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 06:21:35 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep17.22135.0>
References: <<199809151922_MC2-5992-3A1E@compuserve.com>>
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Thanks Dani,

	Sorry about that, I meant to post it to the group, so anyone
could answer.  I know you're busy.  

	Now I have another question.  I knew lead was used for windows,
especially something like a larger h-came so that it can be easily cut to
fit, but I was wondering if anyone uses lead around their copper foil
panels?  It seems like all I've ever seen is zinc.

Jerri


On Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:22:37 -0400 "Michael J. Greer"
<GreerStudios@compuserve.com> writes:
>Hi Jerri-
>
>We never use zinc on our lead windows-
>always use a lead h-came.  Another
>advantage is that the lead border can
>be planed if necessary to fit a not-quite-
>square window opening.
>
>Best,
>
>Dani
>

_____________________________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 17 11:20:00 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Sundial Question
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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:16:33 +0000
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Great Pamela,

I was given a brass sundial ages ago, that's been sitting in my porch 
doing sweet nothing, waiting to get mounted onto something I don't 
quite yet know.
Earlier on today, I picked it up, carried upstairs, put it on my desk 
and stared at it, wondering..... how ON EARTH do I describe to Sue 
how to fix/fit the bit that throws the shadow???
So you come up with a sundial web-site!!!
Wonders of technology!
Thanks for the info, because I myself will certainly hot-foot to it 
tonight. I AM intrigued!!
Best wishes
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Pamela wrote:
> 
> The word you were looking for is gnomon. This needs to correctly sit on
> the dial itself in order to receive the correct time.
> 
> This site will tell you exactly how to set up your sundial.
> 
> http://www.sundials.co.uk/setup.htm
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 17 11:42:59 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: Light Healing Article
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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:16:33 +0000
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Oh Dear,
You made me  come out in a blush!!!
As Mary Armstrong would say....anything to avoid doing things I OUGHT 
to do....
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Suzanne wrote:
> I'd like to nominate a very large "thank you" to Elisabeth and Toby, who 
> spent two whole days scanning this article for us. Hope you all enjoyed 
> it as much as we did.
> 
> Anybody else want it? Did the pictures come through OK, Nadine? (yours 
> were the first).
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 17 11:46:55 1998
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From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: Glenna Rand <gjr@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Train Patterns
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:10:44 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep18.21044.0>
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Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
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Glenna Rand wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Just had a request to do a train panel 12" x 12"
> I didn't realized a pattern would be so hard to come by.
> The only one I found was more for a child's room and I was wondering
> if anyone's seen any good ones.
> 
> Thanks in advance...
> 
> --
> Glenna Rand
> gjr@bungi.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


Glenna...I could be wrong about this and have to search my archives but
somewhere in a back issue of SGN I seem to remember in the "Reader
Gallery" that someone had done a train panel...if my memory serves
correctly it was definatly an older guy and definately not a child
oriented panel. Perhaps from the picture of his work you could adapt
your own pattern.. Hope this is helpful...will try to go thru my old SGN
adn come up with the issue...too bad I dont have a scanner or I could 
just scan the picture in and that would solve that. Good luck. 

Liz
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 17 12:29:59 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: jerri m Roey <jroey@juno.com>
Subject: Re: help with panels
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 19:28:28 +0100
Message-ID: <1998Sep17.202828.0>
References: <<1998Sep17.22135.0@?>>
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In message <1998Sep17.22135.0@?>, jerri m Roey <jroey@juno.com> writes
........
>       Now I have another question.  I knew lead was used for windows,
>especially something like a larger h-came so that it can be easily cut to
>fit, but I was wondering if anyone uses lead around their copper foil
>panels?  It seems like all I've ever seen is zinc.
>
>Jerri
>
I occasionally use a "U" shaped came around a copper foil panel.  the
purpose is to give a larger "frame" without the expense of a wood or
metal frame.  Any hanging points must come from the bead lines of the
copper foil piece, not the lead came.

Others on the list have mentioned this and may give you more (&better)
information.
Steve

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 17 12:54:49 1998
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From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: help - markers and cutting oil
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 19:08:41 +0100
Message-ID: <1998Sep17.20841.0>
References: <<1998Sep16.155439.0@?>>
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In message <1998Sep16.155439.0@?>, "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net> writes
>Steve Richard wrote:
>>=20
...........
..........
>>=20
>> So, I don't mark the whole of the piece; I start with the most difficult
>> cut and continue to the simplest.  Of course I tend to use a light box
>> and cut on top of the cartoon anyway.  I only use pattern pieces when
>> the glass is so opaque that no useful light passes through.  But then I
>> ask myself, if no real light is coming through, why am I using it?
>> Glass should have light coming through it!!
>>=20
>> Just my tuppence worth.   ;-)
>>=20
>> =13
>> Steve
>>=20
>the light box may not let thr light through, but the sun may. as for the
>tracing, i've found that it's best to place all lines on the glass.
>otherwise you may cut along a section that you could have used for
>another piece.=20
>
>---Mike Savad
>
Of course, it is best to plan the cutting of the glass befor you begin
scoring and breaking, both to be economical in the use of the glass and
to ensure that you have the exact quality of the glass for the
particular piece(s) you have made the selection.

So, you have the plan outlined on the glass. =20

What next?  Score all pieces and then break?

Just cut one away and work on it?

I'd do the latter, it means you are working with a smaller piece of
glass, reducing the risk of accidents with a large piece (accidents for
me in this context means breaking the glass where I didn't want to,
rather than any damage to me).

If you are working with a smaller piece, it seems logical to check the
accuracy of the cutting after each score and break.  This allows small
adjustments before you are committed to all the scores for the piece.
In this case, it is only a simple case of marking the next line for the
next score.  But then if you are making templates for each piece of
glass ..................

Steve

--=20
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 17 15:28:59 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: help - markers and cutting oil
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:27:35 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep17.132735.0>
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Steve Richard wrote:
> 
> In message <1998Sep16.155439.0@?>, "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net> writes
> >Steve Richard wrote:
> >>
> ...........
> ..........
> >>
> >> So, I don't mark the whole of the piece; I start with the most difficult
> >> cut and continue to the simplest.  Of course I tend to use a light box
> >> and cut on top of the cartoon anyway.  I only use pattern pieces when
> >> the glass is so opaque that no useful light passes through.  But then I
> >> ask myself, if no real light is coming through, why am I using it?
> >> Glass should have light coming through it!!
> >>
> >> Just my tuppence worth.   ;-)
> >>
> >> 
> >> Steve
> >>
> >the light box may not let thr light through, but the sun may. as for the
> >tracing, i've found that it's best to place all lines on the glass.
> >otherwise you may cut along a section that you could have used for
> >another piece.
> >
> >---Mike Savad
> >
> Of course, it is best to plan the cutting of the glass befor you begin
> scoring and breaking, both to be economical in the use of the glass and
> to ensure that you have the exact quality of the glass for the
> particular piece(s) you have made the selection.
> 
> So, you have the plan outlined on the glass.
> 
> What next?  Score all pieces and then break?
> 
> Just cut one away and work on it?
> 
> I'd do the latter, it means you are working with a smaller piece of
> glass, reducing the risk of accidents with a large piece (accidents for
> me in this context means breaking the glass where I didn't want to,
> rather than any damage to me).
> 
> If you are working with a smaller piece, it seems logical to check the
> accuracy of the cutting after each score and break.  This allows small
> adjustments before you are committed to all the scores for the piece.
> In this case, it is only a simple case of marking the next line for the
> next score.  But then if you are making templates for each piece of
> glass ..................
> 
> Steve
> 
> --
> Steve Richard
> Verrier Art Glass Ltd
> s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
\

i've always traced everything on the glass with marker. then break out
some of the pieces, then more and more. then i cut out all the
individual pieces. 

like if it was a flower, i'd trace all the petals on one edge of the
glass. then i'd cut the stip of flowers out. then i'd cut the petals
apart from each other. when doing that though i always try to trace
along one of the petals edges, to make less work later. when cutting the
actual petal, i score along every line i can. when breaking it i "spin"
the glass around while breaking. like triming the fringe off of a ritz
cracker. then go onto the next piece.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 17 16:28:17 1998
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Fictitious lurker's bio
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 18:31:52 -0400
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maruca@netaxs.com wrote:

> o yes! make one up! yes yes yes!
>
> On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Family Account wrote:
>
> > I did my bio, but I could make one up (after all, I used to write for=
 True
> > Stories).  But my dog doesn't do glass, talented as she is, but she d=
oes look
> > at it occasionally.
> >
> > Dorothy K

Okay, so I did.  Here it is.

I was born, as were we all, excluding those who were hatched, but that=92=
s another
listserv.

When I was young, I listened to the siren call of glass and ran away from=
 home to
become an itinerant vitreous worker.  In my handkerchief bundle, I carrie=
d only
clean underwear, a peanut butter sandwich, my glass cutter, grozing plier=
s and
soldering iron.

It was a hard life, moving from town to town with the seasons, but whenev=
er and
wherever there was a window to construct, we would gather.  The townies w=
ould know
us by our tents, by the colorful suncatchers that hung in every entryway =
and from
every pole, that made our camp a wonderland of light and color.  At night=
 we'd sit
around our fires and carry on heated discussions =96 foil and lead, runni=
ng pliers,
tapping, solder alloys =96 anything and everything to do with glass.  The=
re were good
times and bad times, love and jealousy, alliances and hatreds, but always=
 there was
the glass.

I thought I=92d be on the road forever, until I came to Paneville.  While=
 visiting
the glass factory, searching for the right color, I saw Pierre, the shop =
foreman.
He stood by the furnaces, arms and shoulders glistening with sweat.  I wa=
s stirred
and my scarred fingertips tingled.  He came over to me and asked if he co=
uld help
me and, for the first time in my life, I felt as if my feet were rooted t=
o just one
spot.

=93Puce,=94 I stuttered and he took my hand to show me the way.  He seeme=
d to linger
over releasing my hand and asked if I were free for dinner.  H wanted to =
tell me
about their hand rolling.

You know how the story goes.  When a vitie and a townie get involved, it =
usually
ends badly.  But Pierre worked with the most elemental glass and understo=
od my
passion.  It was hard to leave him when the job was done, but he couldn=92=
t come and
I didn=92t think I could stay.

However, I couldn=92t stay away, either.  Such is the call of two kindred=
 souls.
After a month, I found myself on a bus back to Paneville, passing the tim=
e with
foiling.

I was afraid I=92d find Pierre in the arms of another woman, perhaps that=
 tiny blonde
fuser who made asymmetric vases.  Instead I found him constructing a stud=
io in the
back yard.  He=92d known all along that I=92d be back, and after succumbi=
ng to the
throes of passion in the sawdust, he showed me the studio.  There was plu=
mbing for
a sink, plastic tubing for drips over the grinder and saw.  There would b=
e a
separate soldering station and a large cutting table.  The racks for glas=
s were
already partially filled and the light from the large windows made a chee=
ry glow.

=93I make the glass,=94 Pierre said.  =93You turn it into objects of beau=
ty.=94

Who could resist a man like that?

Sometimes when I see the tents and go to visit old friends, I miss the vi=
tie life,
but when I go into my studio and see Pierre positioning a piece of opal o=
n the
lightbox, I know I have the best of the vitie world, and the townie world=
.  Pierre
and I have the glass.

Emeraldine


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From owner-glass Thu Sep 17 17:07:16 1998
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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 19:03:39 EDT
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Suzanne:
I, for one, would also like to express my gratitude to Elisabeth and Toby for
their thoughtfulness and expenditure of time and effort to make this available
to us.  Thanks!
"Mike" Mikolajczak
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 17 17:26:58 1998
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Subject: Re: Oil Filled Cutters
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 19:15:20 EDT
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Hi All:
For what it's worth:  After struggling for some time with 2 types of oil-
filled cutters (straight & pistol grip), leaky O-rings, etc., I simply stood
them both up (vertically) in a glass container that has a thick pad of cotton
batting saturated with cutting oil in the bottom -- it acts as a cushion and
keeps the cutting wheels lubricated sufficiently, but not excessively.  Don't
have to fill 'em, either!
"Mike" Mikolajczak
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 17 17:34:26 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: jerri m Roey <jroey@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: help with panels
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 19:29:02 -0400
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Hi Jerri-

We use lead around all our
copper foil panels.  Often, we
also have a leaded border with
the copperfoil part in the center.
;-) =


Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
http://www.igga.org/greer/
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 17 18:49:17 1998
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From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:55:14 -0700 (PDT)
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I think that's super too! And wish to thank Elisabeth!!! Did Toby really
help, tell us the truth, chuckle.
Also a great big thank you to Suzanne (Suzaroon)!! 
Cindy

>
>Suzanne:
>I, for one, would also like to express my gratitude to Elisabeth and Toby for
>their thoughtfulness and expenditure of time and effort to make this available
>to us.  Thanks!
>"Mike" Mikolajczak
>----
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 17 19:48:42 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
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Subject: Fictitious lurker's bio
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:59:56 -0400
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Dorothy, you total nut!  Loved
the bio, but really - don't you
think a roll in the whiting would
have been much nicer than
sawdust?  There is the occasional
splinter to consider, after all.  ;-)
(As if I would know!!)

Best,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 17 20:13:25 1998
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To: "INTERNET:Klmxklm@aol.com" <Klmxklm@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Oil Filled Cutters
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:00:03 -0400
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Just like in the old days, Mike,
before cutters had oil barrels!
You soaked a piece of cotton =

with lamp oil, put it in a jar, and
stored your cutter there between
cuts.  Seems like those old
cutters were a bit cheaper...hmmm.

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
http://www.igga.org/greer/   =

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 17 20:25:38 1998
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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 98 21:41:43 -0400
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Dear Emeraldine,

What a story! I am just now drying the corners of my eyes with my 
handkerchief. So touching...what a man is Pierre!

Does he have any brothers?

Sapphire
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 18 01:03:53 1998
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From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
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Subject: Sundial and Chat
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 00:00:25 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep17.17025.0>
Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited
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Hi all,

The one thing about sundials is that most people who buy these for their
garden areas don't take into consideration that they are functional if
you know how to do it. So I would advise anyone who makes these and
sells them to include the "how to" on the correct placement of the
gnomon.

And this might particularly be helpful to you Elisabeth, this way you
don't have to run naked to the house to look and see what time it is,
you can just peek at your sundial. It will save you a trip I think
*LOL*!

In fact, I don't think I've ever seen a booklet that was included in the
purchase of a sundial that told you how to configure the gnomon. And you
know what? Who the hell cares unless you want to use it for
functionality! I mean isn't that what they are for in the first place,
to tell the time?

My second comment would be this: Now I know today is Friday, humm, so
Patrick bet your starting to sweat about now. Now last week my tech
party was canceled due to the awesome bios of 3 wonderful ladies. So
this Saturday (after we read the bios) the artist site will be chatting
via ICQ.

So if anyone is date-less, bored or lonely you can always get together
with us and just shoot the breeze about glass or whatever. Should be
fun, this is our first chat so we will see, could get quite interesting,
maybe swinging, oops that is against chat rules. Sorry. Guess I better
not have my wine on Saturday, I'll have to mind my manners darnit. Hope
to chat with some great bungi minds!

Interested people may check out the chat info here.

http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html

See all of you and have a great weekend!!

Pam *sm*

--
*********************************
Moswood Mountain Limited
Pamela Burns-Tappan
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html

Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/


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From owner-glass Fri Sep 18 06:43:31 1998
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From: "Susan C. Reitmann" <oddjob@scc.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Sundial Thanks
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:51:15 -0500
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Pam-Glen-Toby et all,
Many thanks for the info. I visited the web site......absolutely =
everything one would ever need to know (and then some) !  So off to do =
alot of reading and math (not my strong suit). More later as the =
placement advances to completion.
As to doing it in mosaic, it probably would have been easier but the one =
mosaic piece I cut is still sitting on the work bench ungrouted and that =
was almost 9 months ago. Was not too fond of it. I'd rather sit and =
foil. Yup, I'm one of those that enjoys the sometimes tedious nature of =
foiling.
Thanks again.
Sue
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 18 07:12:47 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: Sundial and Chat
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Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 14:12:20 +0000
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Hi all,

Like I said, I took some time out last night to explore the various 
glass sites that people have posted this last week or so (I still 
have to go trawling through the myriads of "healing" sites...).
The extensiveness, complexity and enormity of the WEB amazes me more 
and more.

Fancy having a web-site dedicated exclusively to sundials!!  Because 
of this brass sundial plate sitting in my porch for literally years 
absolutely ITCHING to be dealt with, you bet I was leaping around the 
house (nude or otherwhise!!  :-> ) Being a Swede, my "Art" also needs 
to be functional. I feel uncomfortable with the idea of plonking a 
sundial in the garden, that doesn't tell the time correctly. I had 
never thought of making one (or more??) in GLASS. But why ever not?!
I can see myself messing around with plastic drainage pipes, 
concrete, mosaics and grout this winter... Roll on Summer!
> 
> The one thing about sundials is that most people who buy these for their
> garden areas don't take into consideration that they are functional if
> you know how to do it. So I would advise anyone who makes these and
> sells them to include the "how to" on the correct placement of the
> gnomon.
> 
> And this might particularly be helpful to you Elisabeth, this way you
> don't have to run naked to the house to look and see what time it is,
> you can just peek at your sundial. It will save you a trip I think
> *LOL*!
> 
Someone else came up with a site of Christian clip-Art (in reply to 
the praying hands). I book-marked it and went exploring last night. 
What a great site.... not so much the initial home-page offerings 
(which I found "useful", but marginally boring), but it has myriads 
of related links. It includes also Jewish Clip-Art. Well worth to 
bookmark. Thank you for that contribution (forgotten who it was).
I was also interested for another reason; my local Anglican parish 
vicar wants to set up a WEB-page for our church and accosted me at a 
village concert the other week for ideas. Since I am neither an 
Anglican, nor a WEB-expert, I was a bit bemused. At least I have been 
able to pass on this URL to him with a bit of a flourish....

> My second comment would be this: Now I know today is Friday, humm, so
> Patrick bet your starting to sweat about now. Now last week my tech
> party was canceled due to the awesome bios of 3 wonderful ladies. So
> this Saturday (after we read the bios)....> snip

Bios??? What bios??? It'll be Irish Stew this week-end , Toby!!!! 
BALD Irish Stew to boot!! So no hair or fur to spit out over my clean 
kitchen floor, if you please!

Well, enough for now! Got to bed at 3 in the morning and am still 
streaking around in the house in you-know-what!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 18 07:34:57 1998
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Precedence: bulk


Bow, scrape, blush,
Thank you Cindy, Thank you Mike,

But of course Toby helped!!!
First of all, when he decided I needed a break, he took the magazine 
and carried it downstairs, thus ensuring that I followed the Health & 
Safety guide-lines as regards monitor exposure,
Then he helped me to turn over the pages of the magazine HIS way, to 
make sure that I didn't have to do TWO things at once.
Then he reminded me about that I needed to eat (which just sort of 
happened to co-incide with his own tummy-clock- coincidentally, OF 
COURSE!)
Then he decided that I should SHARE out the work and not do it ALL 
myself, so he sat on a page - which is probably why it was missing in 
the original scanning, so Suzanne had to retype it, when she got the 
original).
Finally, decided Toby, a healthy mind requires a healthy body, which 
for him is encompassed in the word WALK.
Throughout the process, he kept me constantly under supervision and 
didn't leave my side for a second, incase I came to harm or got so 
frustrated that I myself might cause harm to this strange lump called 
computer. 
Well.... you be the Judge....;->
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
 
> I think that's super too! And wish to thank Elisabeth!!! Did Toby really
> help, tell us the truth, chuckle.
> Also a great big thank you to Suzanne (Suzaroon)!! 

 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 18 08:44:23 1998
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Date: Fri Sep 18 07:21:35 1998
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Emeraldine,

A truly touching story. I read it; quit my job; abandoned my wife and
child; and have headed out for the road...

Do you think Pierre has a sister?

Vagabond Vic

PS I added a laptop to my bundle so leave me on the list.


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From owner-glass Fri Sep 18 09:10:18 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
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Subject: Sundial and Chat
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:02:37 -0400
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Message text written by Pamela Burns-Tappan
>And this might particularly be helpful to you Elisabeth, this way you
don't have to run naked to the house to look and see what time it is,
you can just peek at your sundial. It will save you a trip I think
*LOL*!<

Ah yes, but Elisabeth does her cutting-in-the-buff at night, if I
recall correctly.  So sneeking a peek at the sundial at night
is rather, um, strange.

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 18 10:18:03 1998
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From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re:Light Healing Article
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:55:39 -0700 (PDT)
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Dear Elisabeth,
Truely you have a great pup!
I'm still chuckling.
I received my copy from Suz, last night and started to read it.
Thanks again for sharing.
Last fall I picked up a book on such things from our very small library,
it's editing date was in the late 40's. I never got to read much of it, so
plan to get it out again.
PLEASE give Toby a big bone...(if he likes them) for me.
Cindy:)
>
>
>Bow, scrape, blush,
>Thank you Cindy, Thank you Mike,
>
>But of course Toby helped!!!
>First of all, when he decided I needed a break, he took the magazine 
>and carried it downstairs, thus ensuring that I followed the Health & 
>Safety guide-lines as regards monitor exposure,
>Then he helped me to turn over the pages of the magazine HIS way, to 
>make sure that I didn't have to do TWO things at once.
>Then he reminded me about that I needed to eat (which just sort of 
>happened to co-incide with his own tummy-clock- coincidentally, OF 
>COURSE!)
>Then he decided that I should SHARE out the work and not do it ALL 
>myself, so he sat on a page - which is probably why it was missing in 
>the original scanning, so Suzanne had to retype it, when she got the 
>original).
>Finally, decided Toby, a healthy mind requires a healthy body, which 
>for him is encompassed in the word WALK.
>Throughout the process, he kept me constantly under supervision and 
>didn't leave my side for a second, incase I came to harm or got so 
>frustrated that I myself might cause harm to this strange lump called 
>computer. 
>Well.... you be the Judge....;->
>Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
> 
>> I think that's super too! And wish to thank Elisabeth!!! Did Toby really
>> help, tell us the truth, chuckle.
>> Also a great big thank you to Suzanne (Suzaroon)!! 
>
> 
>----
>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
>----
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>

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From owner-glass Fri Sep 18 11:20:43 1998
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From: Mosfunland@aol.com
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Subject: Re: Sundial and Chat
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:39:35 EDT
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In a message dated 98-09-18 12:12:20 EDT, Ensembles@compuserve.com writes:

<<   So sneeking a peek at the sundial at night
 is rather, um, strange. >>

So I guess she'd be needing a moondial........

mo
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 18 11:37:24 1998
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From: Mosfunland@aol.com
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Subject: Re: Fictitious lurker's bio
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:44:22 EDT
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In a message dated 98-09-17 19:29:33 EDT, shad@mail2.nai.net writes:

<< He stood by the furnaces, arms and shoulders glistening with sweat. >>


Perhaps this has taken place somewhere in the vicinity of the Youghighenny
glass works.......but I don't remember Emeraldine from the Warner-Criv bus
trip.....or was she the person we left behind? <VBG>

mo
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 18 11:52:58 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Sundial and Chat
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:41:17 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep18.64117.0>
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I tried to check my sundial at night, in the buff and the neighbors called
the Police. They didn't believe my story. I told them a crazy Swede advised
me to do it. They looked at each other in shear disbelief.

After they took off that nice white coat with the big shiny buckles and
leather straps in the back I never mentioned the Swede again.


Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Fri Sep 18 11:59:19 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 14:12:20 +0000
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Dorothy,
Absolutely priceless!!
Can I borrow Pierre please??

By the way guys,  sharpening my pencil for planning Toby's Weekend 
Menu. Will it be Irish Stew????
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

"Esmeraldine" wrote:
> > > I did my bio, but I could make one up (after all, I used to write for=
>  True
> > > Stories).  But my dog doesn't do glass, talented as she is, but she d=
> oes look
> > > at it occasionally.
> > >
> > > Dorothy K
> 
> Okay, so I did.  Here it is.
----
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North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 18 13:10:11 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:45:49 +0000
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Would that make me "moonatic" rather than "loonatic"???
E 'n T in UK


> In a message dated 98-09-18 12:12:20 EDT, Ensembles@compuserve.com writes:
> 
> <<   So sneeking a peek at the sundial at night
>  is rather, um, strange. >>
> 
> So I guess she'd be needing a moondial........
> 
 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 18 13:48:17 1998
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From: Northernlights <Northernlights@pobox.com>
To: Mosfunland@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Sundial and Chat
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 14:10:47 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep18.91047.0>
References: <<1998Sep18.163935.0>>
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Mosfunland@aol.com wrote:

> So I guess she'd be needing a moondial........

I guess that will give "mooning" a whole new meaning!  ;->

>
>



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From owner-glass Fri Sep 18 14:02:28 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 20:59:51 +0000
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T O B Y !!!  HERE!!

There is a parcel that has arrived for you!!! It's all wrapped up in 
white, with some funny buckles on it and some leather straps all 
over!!

What a silly man! Running around  gardens checking sundials in the 
buff at night!! No wonder the Irish expelled him quickly! The 
least he could have done,  was to have placed the sundial in his OWN 
garden!! Poor neighbours! Chasing sundials at night, means that 
there will be no Bios this week-end folks. Patrick has taken leave of 
his senses and Toby will enjoy his Irish Stew , after all.
I now have a perfect design for a mosaic sundial base!!!! Does anyone 
have a pic of our dearly, departed Patrick?????
Elisabeth 'n (drooling) Toby in UK

Some poor demented soul wrote:
> I tried to check my sundial at night, in the buff and the neighbors called
> the Police. They didn't believe my story. I told them a crazy Swede advised
> me to do it. They looked at each other in shear disbelief.
> 
> After they took off that nice white coat with the big shiny buckles and
> leather straps in the back I never mentioned the Swede again.
> 
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 18 15:16:37 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Sundial and Chat
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:45:31 -0400
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Precisely my thoughts, Christie!
But, then, could cutting-in-the-
buff be considered normal?  =

Certainly not average!  By the
way Elisabeth, we dropped by
your web site yesterday - Toby
looks cute as ever, but Michael
was disappointed he couldn't
see Horace!

Best,

Dani
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 18 15:40:54 1998
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X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad
From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: From Emeraldine
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:44:34 -0400
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For those of you who asked...Pierre is an only child.  The world cannot
contain two such as he.  His cousin Jacques, however, is still
available.  He's a glass blower and has returned to the ancestral family
estate in France.  He is best known for his glass grape clusters (I see
you all nodding your heads - so THAT's who Jacques is.)  Pierre's cousin
Margerite is engaged but still flirting.  She is a musician, involved in
composing music for the Franklin glass organ.

A discussion of a passionate roll in the whiting is, I fear, a bit too
intimate, even for dear friends such as you all.

For those of you who are packing your glass cutters as we read, but
don't know where to go, just listen for the music of light on the wind.

Thanking Dorothy for the use of her account (and brain), I remain ever
yours, Emeraldine

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From owner-glass Fri Sep 18 15:44:00 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: RE: Fictitious lurker's bio
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:45:40 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep18.124540.0>
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Dear Vagabond Vic-

Was it YOUR wife who bought
you all that sandblasting =

equipment?  Oh, dear, I fear
you've made a grave mistake!

Best,

Dani Greer
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 18 16:45:52 1998
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From: Kathy Hupp <khupp@citynet.net>
To: Mosfunland@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Fictitious lurker's bio
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:08:01 -0400
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This has been great fun! Perhaps the author should think about writing a
fictious book
about stained glass artists and their exploits. Who knows, with the right
group following
the progress, it really might sell. Thank you for your imagination!

Also, if you figure out how to make a working sundial, please let me know.
Already I have lost the URL for the sundial webp page. (Please repost?) My son
left for Columbus this evening with a few clothes and his computer (and my
car) to look for a job. He did manage to get an old computer working for me
before he left, but once again I have lost my bookmarks. My father has bugged
me for a working sundial ever since I learned stained glass. We have the
pattern figured out, but not how to make it work correctly. I really think he
would like to try and make this himself. It'd be great if I could say, "here
it is, get going!".

Thanks to all,
Kathy

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From owner-glass Fri Sep 18 18:45:54 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: All <GLASS@BUNGI.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Sundials
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 20:56:56 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep18.165656.0>
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>From the book *Stained Glass =

by Sarah Brown:

The seventeenth century was a
period in which Science became
part of the education of a gentleman.
This is reflected in the popularity of
stained-glass sundials, which =

combined a knowledge of math-
mematics witha fascination for
scientific instruments.  A surprising
number of stained glass sundials survive
from the seventeenth century....

The paragraph ends saying there are
over thirty dials surviving in England,
including the one pictured on page 117
by John Oliver (1616-1701) at the London
Weavers' Company.  It's verrrry cool.
Michael and I have thought about building
a sundial window - just haven't gotten =

around to it yet, but maybe this thread
will inspire us.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 18 20:53:47 1998
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From: Beadnik2@webtv.net (Joan)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Fused Glass and Ring Saw
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 22:25:14 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1998Sep18.182514.0>
Precedence: bulk

Has anyone used the Taurus 2.2 Ring saw on fused glass?  If so, have you
experienced any problems?

I've been pre-fusing bars of glass several layers thick and then slicing
it with the Ring Saw, but just today the blade sliced up the red
grommets on 2 occasions.  Admittedly, it was a particularly thick piece
of glass (one layer was a dichro ripple).... almost 1/2" at the thickest
point.

Any suggestions or advice appreciated.

Joan

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From owner-glass Fri Sep 18 21:34:43 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Subject: Query: Chalking, Removal of
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 23:11:15 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep18.181115.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Folks:

I'm new to this list so please forgive any inadvertant repetition.

My wife finished soldering a small copper foil panel, thoroughly washed
it clean with soap and water, then thought she'd finish it off with a
careful Windex-ing.  We are now aware, and painfully so, that the Windex
was loaded with ammonia which has thus resulted in a a heavy "chalking"
of the solder joints.

Our question:  Your opinions on how best to clean it (oxidation?) off
and return the solder joints to a sparkling...and hopefully lasting
...sheen?   Or is our only hope now a scrubdown and dark patina?  Also,
is it your practice to apply any polish or protectant to those solder
joint you intend to stay shiny?

TIA for your thoughts.


Russ and Cheryl Burke
Laughing Glass Studio


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From owner-glass Fri Sep 18 23:50:22 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Sundial and Chat
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 00:24:21 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep18.192421.0>
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Now I know what the charges were when they took me away.

Exposing my gnomon incorrectly. Pam,  now you tell be there is a correct
way.

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 19 02:20:21 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: From Emeraldine
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Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 07:55:42 +0000
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Hey Darling Emeraldine,

Thanks for the introduction!!
Am packing my bags....
Am closer to France, guys,  than YOUHOO!
Jacques!! Je viens! Je viens!!
Ahh, for the life at the side of a mighty glass-blower!!
Elisabeth (what! NO Toby???)

Emeraldine wrote:
> For those of you who asked...Pierre is an only child.  The world cannot
> contain two such as he.  His cousin Jacques, however, is still
> available.  He's a glass blower and has returned to the ancestral family
> estate in France.  He is best known for his glass grape clusters (I see
> you all nodding your heads - so THAT's who Jacques is.)  
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 19 02:50:25 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Sundials
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:49:23 +0000
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Hi Dani, et all

Someone asked for a repeat of the sundial URL:
http://www.sundials.co.uk/home3.htm

In there is the page on how to set them up.
I found the entire site absolutely fascinating. Likewhise Dani's 
comments.
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

> >From the book *Stained Glass =
> 
> by Sarah Brown:
> 
> The seventeenth century was a
> period in which Science became
> part of the education of a gentleman.
> This is reflected in the popularity of
> stained-glass sundials, which =
> 
> combined a knowledge of math-
> mematics witha fascination for
> scientific instruments.  A surprising
> number of stained glass sundials survive
> from the seventeenth century....
> 
> The paragraph ends saying there are
> over thirty dials surviving in England,
> including the one pictured on page 117
> by John Oliver (1616-1701) at the London
> Weavers' Company.  It's verrrry cool.
> Michael and I have thought about building
> a sundial window - just haven't gotten =
> 
> around to it yet, but maybe this thread
> will inspire us.
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 19 05:35:05 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  Re: Fictitious lurker's bio
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 07:51:24 EDT
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Precedence: bulk


In a message dated 9/19/98 12:47:33 AM, khupp@citynet.net wrote:

>This has been great fun! Perhaps the author should think about writing a
>fictious book
>about stained glass artists and their exploits.

Actually, there already is such an animal (of sorts). It's called the
Whittemore-Durgin Catalog. Not much of a plot, though, so it's no threat to
Emeraldine or Dorothy......


Sparks
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 19 06:42:24 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Request for bio
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:15:16 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep19.31516.0>
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Bryan,

How about a bio?

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 19 07:09:23 1998
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Query: Chalking, Removal of
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 09:22:58 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep19.52258.0>
Precedence: bulk

The best stuff for the job, I have found, is a product called Kwik-Clean.
It cleans the surfaces, removes flux residue and, they claim, prevents the
solder from chalking for 2 years.  I've been using, and selling lots of it,
for about a year...It does a real good job.  See your local stained glass
retailer.  He carries it, or can get it.

Arnold Schneider    Creekside Creations    Richfield, Pa.

-----Original Message-----
From: Russ/Cheryl Burke <twobysea@lancnews.infi.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Saturday, September 19, 1998 1:05 AM
Subject: Query: Chalking, Removal of


>Hi Folks:
>
>I'm new to this list so please forgive any inadvertant repetition.
>
>My wife finished soldering a small copper foil panel, thoroughly washed
>it clean with soap and water, then thought she'd finish it off with a
>careful Windex-ing.  We are now aware, and painfully so, that the Windex
>was loaded with ammonia which has thus resulted in a a heavy "chalking"
>of the solder joints.
>
>Our question:  Your opinions on how best to clean it (oxidation?) off
>and return the solder joints to a sparkling...and hopefully lasting
>...sheen?   Or is our only hope now a scrubdown and dark patina?  Also,
>is it your practice to apply any polish or protectant to those solder
>joint you intend to stay shiny?
>
>TIA for your thoughts.
>
>
>Russ and Cheryl Burke
>Laughing Glass Studio
>
>
>----
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 19 08:15:43 1998
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X-Path: cybersol.com!TWLARRY
From: TWLARRY@cybersol.com (Nordhoff, Larry)
To: Rachelle Seguin <seguinr@post.queensu.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: new marker
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 10:19:12 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep19.61912.0>
References: <<1998Sep16.91017.0>>
Organization: Trade Winds
Precedence: bulk

I bought a diamond saw yesterday from a man that has been in lapadary
for many years.  He told me that hae uses an aluminum nail to mark all
his stones.  When I got home I tried it on glass and it works great.  It
will not wash off.
TWLARRY

Rachelle Seguin wrote:
> 
> Thanks DB, sent again in plain text
> 
> I have been following the discussion re markers and water with interest. My
> problem is when I trace a pattern onto glass, then go to cut it with my
> oil-filled cutter, the oil that is deposited on the glass smears the lines I
> have not yet cut. By the time I have done a curve, or two straight cuts, the
> other lines are obliterated.
> 
> Is there something I am doing wrong? Do some markers dissolve less in oil
> than others? Perhaps its the brand of cutter oil I'm using. Suggestions
> would be helpful as I have found this quite frustrating recently while
> working on a Mickey Mouse suncatcher with small pieces.
> Rachelle Seguin
> 
> Rachelle Seguin
> 
> ----
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 19 09:25:15 1998
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X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: Russ/Cheryl Burke <twobysea@lancnews.infi.net>, glass
Subject: Re: Query: Chalking, Removal of
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:35:57 PDT
Message-ID: <m0zKP3G-0000KTC@daver.bungi.com>
Precedence: bulk

[In the message entitled "Query: Chalking, Removal of" on Sep 18, 23:11, Russ/Cheryl Burke writes:]
> 
> My wife finished soldering a small copper foil panel, thoroughly washed
> it clean with soap and water, then thought she'd finish it off with a
> careful Windex-ing.  We are now aware, and painfully so, that the Windex
> was loaded with ammonia which has thus resulted in a a heavy "chalking"
> of the solder joints.
> 
> Our question:  Your opinions on how best to clean it (oxidation?) off
> and return the solder joints to a sparkling...and hopefully lasting
> ...sheen?   Or is our only hope now a scrubdown and dark patina?  Also,
> is it your practice to apply any polish or protectant to those solder
> joint you intend to stay shiny?

I would try removed the chaulky solder joints with some very fine steel wool.
After that polish with simichrome polish and then some finishing
compound.  I've heard of some people using a satin finish lacquer to
protect the solder joints from oxidization.


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 19 10:52:28 1998
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Exposing your gnomon
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 10:03:07 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep19.337.0>
Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited
Precedence: bulk

Patrick's query:

Now I know what the charges were when they took me away.

Exposing my gnomon incorrectly. Pam,  now you tell be there is a correct

way.

Patrick

All I can offer is this. "Be good to your gnomon and it will be good to
you". Now if the authorities haul you away for incorrect gnomon
position, then yours must be a pretty nasty looking one. My advise would
be to shine it up, use a good sealant, find the correct angel and leave
it alone.

Of course this is just my opinion I don't profess to be an expert on
this subject. You might have to fiddle with yours to get the proper
positions and such.

Happy fiddling, oh and by the way, do we have bios this week? We tried
out our new chat board at the artists site and had a ball last night!!
So maybe we can do the chat board instead of the ICQ, I'm not sure, we
will see. But maybe this sundial thread can be continued there, wouldn't
that be interesting *LOL*

See you,

Pam *sm*


--
*********************************
Moswood Mountain Limited
Pamela Burns-Tappan
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html

Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

Join our live glass chat!
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/


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From owner-glass Sat Sep 19 14:35:31 1998
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X-Path: nac.net!morn
From: "M. Savad" <morn@nac.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: new e-mail address
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:26:00 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep19.12260.0>
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Precedence: bulk

i have a new email address... so Glenna: - change my email address from
morn@nac.net to esavad@home.com

and for anyone else who might have my e-mail address, you can update
that too. hopefully i'll get my homepage updated, and my server to
foward the rest of my mail

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 19 17:05:34 1998
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From: Carol <cat13@flash.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: sharpies....oil
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:21:46 +0000
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I use a pistol grip cutter, and the handle is supposed to be filled with
oil.  I think the Valdez left a smaller oil slick... I leave the resevoir
empty!  Instead, I have a small plastic photographic film canister with a
cotton ball in the bottom of it... I put a bit of oil in it and just dunk
the tip of my cutter every few cuts (I never cut dry, though!) It's very
handy and very portable - pop the lid on it and drop it in my tool box -
it's small and never leaks. 

-Carol

>Why FLOOD the glass with oil. A few times a week I put a drop of oil on the
>cutting head and otherwise cut dry. By NOT filling my toyo cutters with oil,
>do not have the problem of oil taking off the pattern lines.
>Oil is generally used as a lubricant to allow the wheel to turn freely on
>the axle.





"I wonder if other dogs think poodles are members of a weird religious
cult." - Rita Rudner




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From owner-glass Sat Sep 19 18:38:47 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bio # 54 Caren
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:48:26 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep19.134826.0>
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Hi I am one of those lurkers you rarely hear from.  But I guess it's my
turn!
I am a Special Education teacher of Multiply Handicapped children in
Upstate NY.  For as long as I can remember I have always had a fetish for
glass, crystal, stained, it doesn't matter I LOVE IT!  Whenever I go to
craft fairs or art shows I spend my entire time at the glass booths
drooling.
I teach at a BOCES where they offer adult education classes at night and
one of them is Stained Glass-Beginners Level.  So last year I decided to
take the class and after the second session I was totally hooked. 
Addicted actually!  It was an 8 week course and I can't believe how I
couldn't wait till the following week.  Since I was an employee of the
school I was allowed to borrow the equipment during the week (since it
only sat in the closet).  So I had access to a grinder and the Morton
System, I had my own glass cutter and solder iron already.  Every night I
worked on something, I couldn't stop.
Last year I didn't buy any Christmas presents, I made them all!  I still
can't believe when I see some of the pieces that I made them.  I keep
them pretty simple.  Small panels and suncatcher type, some of which I
designed myself.  Actually I've had people ask me for some and still
haven't finished my Christmas list (I took the summer off from glass). 
I've had offers to buy pieces or be commissioned to do pieces and I've
said no.  If I sell something it'll take the pleasure away I think, I
want to remain a hobbyist.  I love the process, I still need a lot of
work soldering (I'm too much of a perfectionist and I make myself crazy).
I discovered Bungi and have spent hours reading about glass.  I have
learned so much from this list and all the other websites I visit
frequently.  Thanks to all you pros for helping us novices.  It's people
as generous as yourselves that make it worthwhile for us.  I love when I
go into stained glass studios now and not only do they let me watch but
will really explain what they are doing and that inspires me to go home
and work on my own glass.
I have my own studio in my basement.  For Christmas last year I
registered at the stained glass studio near me and got all my supplies I
needed.  I was easy to shop for.  Since I live in Central NY there is
only one studio that sells supplies within an 80 mile radius, fortunately
it's in the next town.
Well that's enough for now.  Back to lurking and thanks for being great
mentors!

Caren


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From owner-glass Sat Sep 19 18:54:40 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bio# 55 Tracy Reitman
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:51:26 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep19.135126.0>
Precedence: bulk

Okay, Lurker Bio time I guess=85.we wouldn't want Patrick's leg becoming =
an
afternoon snack for one named Toby!!


 Let's see=85where to start=85okay, I'm 37, a
desktop publisher who has (and has had) a wide variety of hobbies.  I'm f=
rom
Minnesota, that's what I tell people when they ask, but I've actually onl=
y
spent
about half my life there.  I started out in Dallas, Texas, then Oklahoma
City,
then to Minnesota (which is where my family is from).  From there I left
once to
live in Las Vegas (didn't last a year there though), returned to Minnesot=
a,
then
off again to San Francisco for 8 years, then back again to Minnesota (but=
 I
find
I get quite homesick for San Francisco at times). As one can imagine, I
adapt
pretty easily to new situations.  I'm also not afraid of trying new thing=
s.
My
main occupation started out being a legal secretary/assistant but when
computers
came out I was hooked, and when the Internet started I was in heaven.  I'=
ve
written a few web pages, teaching myself HTML from looking at how other w=
eb
pages were written, and started dabbling in desktop publishing, which is
what I
do now full time (although breaking off from working for lawyers was simi=
lar
to
trying to shoo bees away from you out in the garden in late summer).  My
lack of
fear of trying new things allowed me to do all sorts of things -- in San
Francisco, I kept busy with things like freelance photography, stage
managing
Shakespeare, learning to play pool (and managing to win a few trophies in
tournaments while I was at it), doing freelance word processing, and bein=
g a
pet
food sales rep (which is where I came across my pal, Jack, who is an 8
year-old
part Husky and constant companion -- I should say constant "vocal" compan=
ion
as
his Husky blood makes him quite the talker).

I was exposed to stained glass when one of my folks, Sue (or Oddjob as sh=
e's
known here in Bungi-land), started doing it when they were living in Tucs=
on,
Arizona.  Right away I wanted to know how it was done and I remember her
showing
me some of the basics  when I would visit them.  After that I started to
notice
it more and more in San Francisco and I remember seeing some awesome piec=
es
around the City.  My folks and I moved back to Minnesota at around the sa=
me
time
(about 4 years ago) and then I was able to see her projects being made.
Finally, about a year ago I decided it was time, I had to learn for mysel=
f
how
to do it and asked if she would help me -- she had been perfecting her sk=
ill
over the last several years and was creating some really outstanding piec=
es.
I
also felt it was something important enough to keep in the family=85kind =
of
like a
carpenter teaching his son, who teaches his son, etc.  I feel pretty
fortunate
that I have her as my teacher.

Lampshades seem to be my main interest, which explains why I haven't
ventured
into leaded pieces yet.  But, living where we do, I figure this winter th=
ere
will be plenty of time for that -- winters in Minnesota are rather long
(about 6
months) and people around here usually have a list of "winter projects" a
mile
long.  And since I won't be able to spend time in the flower gardens I ha=
ve
going (which is another hobby that pretty well consumes a lot of my free
time) I
may as well get my feet wet in that area.  (Plus I just bought my first
house
and there are a few windows that need dressing up.)  A huge interest of m=
ine
is
learning about the Anishinaabe (Native Americans), ranging from their liv=
es,
to
religion to even learning how to speak Ojibwe (one of the tribes from thi=
s
part
of the country) and I find I'm designing quite a bit of southwestern styl=
e
pieces (okay, I'll admit, I think only one piece so far "isn't"
southwestern-style).  I find the design part the trickiest for me.  I spe=
nd
I
don't know how much time sketching different designs then go over some of
them
with Sue to see what will work and why, and what won't work and why.
Another
problem I have is to finally decide what colors of glass I want to use fo=
r a
piece -- there's just too many possibilities!!!  It's great!  (Unless you=
're
with me in the glass shop where I can spend literally hours deciding what=
 I
want
to use!)

Well, I hope this kept Toby off of Patrick for at least another week or s=
o.
I've enjoyed reading (and learning from) all the posts on Bungi and also
meeting
some of the people out there (at least in cyber-space).  That's about it =
for
me
everyone=85I'm now going to see if I can find where I left my lurker seat=
 and
resume my post there!

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 19 21:15:32 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>, "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Bio# 55 Tracy Reitman
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 98 22:37:35 -0400
Message-ID: <199809200241.WAA14643@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

Hey hey, 

Tracy Reitman was already sent to us as Bio #48 a couple of weeks ago.
Looks to me like some Irish Scoundrel is cheating here!

ELISABETH please note this, but don't tell Toby yet.
Let's give him a chance to explain first. (should be good).

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 19 22:24:17 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Things are Too Quiet
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 22:42:42 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep19.174242.0>
Precedence: bulk

Things are too quiet from across the pond so I thought I would post a photo
Elisabeth's wonderful hammock so the group could see. Notice the expert
workmanship and design. I think she has a little bit of the impressionist in
her. Her little shelf to the right is for the exceptional wine she makes in
her cauldron (I mean still). I think during the process she may have nipped
a little too much of it.



Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

PS I'm waiting for an Intercontinental Ballistic Missile to Land in Central
Texas. If you don't hear from me anymore you'll know who to blame, and it
won't be Toby his paws are too big for the button.

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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
Subject: Ooops RE: Things are too Quiet
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 22:50:43 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep19.175043.0>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Oooops .... Forgot to attach picture.


Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 19 23:23:58 1998
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Received: by daver.bungi.com
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	for rglass-42; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 22:19:44 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19)
X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Cheating on the Bios
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 22:16:59 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep19.171659.0>
Precedence: bulk

I would like to apologize for any improper behavior that I may have been a
participant in (does the name Slick Willie ring a bell). Ya see at the time
my attention was diverted to a cigar .... nevermind. I made an honest
mistake. The full video of my questioning by a grand jury will be made
available on Monday. The cost is $19.95, plus $9.95 shipping and handling,
FOB Washington, DC. All proceeds go to "Uncle Pat's Home for Unwed Fathers"
or the "Kelly School of Cigar Rolling and Democratic Refugee Fund".

So Toby has at least one chomp. However I have more (much more) for him to
dine on. However if I don't get more bios soon my weight will diminish by
bounds and chomps. Please help a Irishman in his time of trouble.


Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 19 23:29:38 1998
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	for rglass-42; Sat, 19 Sep 1998 22:33:08 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19)
X-Path: pobox.com!Northernlights
From: Northernlights <Northernlights@pobox.com>
To: glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Replacement Bio
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 00:28:25 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep19.192825.0>
Precedence: bulk

Northernlights wrote:  (Well Northernlights is asleep.....so it's not really her
right now)

> Okay Patrick....I've been sneaking on Tracy's computer from time to time and
> have read e-mails from all of you (and am particularly interested in getting to
> know Toby at some point).  I think you've posted Tracy's bio already and thought
> I would save you here and send you mine....(Tracy's fast asleep now, so I don't
> think my secret will get out to her....unless someone from here tells her!)
>
> My name is Jack and I'm the canine housemate of Tracy Reitmann (aka
> Northernlights).  Actually she has yet another housemate named Rochester, but
> he's a feline, and, well, I don't really count him since he's not really around
> much.  For one thing he spends WAY too much time outdoors, UNLEASHED at that(!)
> which completely confuses me since Tracy absolutely insists on hooking
> me up to a lead....guess she doesn't like to get worried when I decide to do a
> "walk-about" all over the neighborhood without her.  And when he IS inside the
> house all he ever does is sleep in one spot all day.  As a canine I find this
> completely confusing since I find it much nicer to wander the house during the
> day when Tracy's at work, sleeping an hour or so in one room (um, yes, I can
> admit it here, on the bed rather than the floor), then moving to another room
> (oh, okay, since I'm being honest, yes, I'll nap a wee bit on the couch or chair
> in the livingroom).  The traveling nap session I've figure out works rather well
> since by the time Tracy comes home from work I've worked my way to the
> downstairs rooms and am sleeping soundly on the floor of her workshop (nice cool
> concrete!) and she probably just figures I've been there all day.  I had my 8th
> birthday this last May and for my birthday she gave me her usual birthday
> present -- a nice big bone fresh from the butcher shop (I'd rather have the bone
> AND the meat that was cut off from it, but haven't figured out how to tell her
> yet).  I was born in San Francisco which is where Tracy and I met.  She took me
> into her home but at that time I had to share the space with not one, but THREE
> cats!  I thought I was going to die there for a while.  As soon as Tracy would l
> leave for work the terror would begin -- there was definitely no room for naps
> in those days since I was constantly looking over my shoulder wondering what
> antics one or more of the cats were going to play on me.  Now mind you, I'm a
> big dog now (I'm 3/4 Husky and 1/4 German Shepard) but at that time I was a wee
> tyke.  Their favorite game to play with me was to lock me in the livingroom, one
> cat guarding each of the two doorways that would lead to food or water or safety
> behind some table or behind the stove while the third cat would sit in front of
> me and just stare at me for hours.  I looked forward to hearing those keys of
> her's opening the front door late in the afternoon.  We spent weekends going to
> all sorts of different places -- art/street fairs where all kinds of people
> would scratch me behind the ears, some kind of show in Golden Gate Park (the
> people had funny accents and would wear these really crazy clothes....I think it
> had something to do with Shakespeare but I never
> knew what Shakespeare was to begin with so I just stayed confused....at least it
> was nice to lay down and take a nap under some of the trees).  The best times
> were when we would walk down to Ocean Beach or China Beach underneath the Golden
> Gate Bridge.  That was where everyone would gather with their canine housemates
> and we would meet up and run with each other while the humans would just stand
> around and talk about us.  But then she moved back to Minnestoa and brought me
> with her which is alright I suppose...the snow is interesting, once I figured
> out it wasn't something that was going to attack me (the first winter I barked
> and barked and barked at that stuff.....I couldn't figure out what was falling
> from the sky!) and it took a little while to get used to running through it (it
> was almost like swimming because I would sink up to my neck in it, but it was
> much different moving around in it than water).  The summers are what I don't
> like....that's when the sky turns into night and then there's these horrible
> crashing sounds and flashes of light.  It scares me terribly, even more so than
> the little earthquakes from San Francisco.  The only way I can handle these
> strange things is to lay down in
> the bathtub, behind the shower curtain, and close my eyes.  At least they don't
> seem to last very long, which is a good thing (except for the few times that we
> had to go sit in the basement with a flashlight and a radio....never could
> figure that one out either).  We go on more driving trips since we moved
> here and one of my favorite places to go is to Tracy's folks (Ed and Sue)
> because I get run all over their HUGE yard and explore the Back Forty.  After
> that we go inside, either into the house or into the Hut.  Either one we go into
> Sue's canine housemate, Max, is there, just barking and barking and
> barking at me saying hello.  We got into a horrible fight once but that's
> because he was trying to take food out of my bowl, but we've made up now and
> we're friends (well, after he got me back by biting me on my rearend..and that
> hurt!).  Sometimes, when we go into the hut (all four of us) it's pretty boring
> because all Tracy and Sue do is bend over things and then hold colored things up
> to a light, then bend over some more, then go to this thing that makes this
> horrible grinding sound, then back to bending over, etc., etc. This literally
> goes on for hours sometimes!   All there is for me and Max to
> do is take turns curling up on different parts of the floor and wish for them to
> stop and let us outside.  For some reason Tracy must like all this bending over,
> holding up colored things and making that horrible grinding noise because she's
> been doing the same thing at our place for a year now!   I'll
> lay down there and watch her, just like at her folks, waiting for her to do
> something different, but so far it looks like the same routine.  'Well that's
> about it from me....I think I need a nap....after all, I've been up from my last
> one for about 25 minutes now and I'm exhausted.  If anyone has any scraps
> from dinner in their fridge, please e-mail them as soon as possible (she doesn't
> like me to have "people food" but I won't tell if you won't tell!).



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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19)
X-Path: aol.com!HiimLaura
From: HiimLaura@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: pattern search
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 07:46:15 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep20.114615.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hello all:

Does anyone know where I could find a pattern of the Virgin Mother? I'm having
a difficult time locating one. Thanks!

Laura

HiimLaura@aol.com
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 20 09:43:51 1998
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X-Path: csi.com!doverbay
From: "Daniel" <doverbay@csi.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: BIO-ology...
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 08:49:03 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep20.1493.0>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0065_01BDE473.84D0F2A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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I Was thinking about adding my bio...but alas....it can't compare to the =
rest.

Ironically enough...I received today in my email...the WORD OF THE =
DAY...

and WHAT is it you ask????...

   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

mishmash (MISH-mash, -mahsh) noun

   A collection or mixture of unrelated things; a hodgepodge.

[Middle English misse-masche, probably reduplication of mash, soft =
mixture.]

   "I came away feeling that Indian English is not just a savory =
stepmother
   tongue to hundreds of millions of Indians (more Indians, after all, =
speak
   English than Englishmen do), and not just an invaluable memento of a
   centuries-long mishmash, but also a grand and distinctive product of =
a
   culture as verbally supple and full of energy as any I know."
   Pico Iyer, English in India: Still All the Raj, New York Times, 10 =
Aug 1997.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

That's what my bio is....a mishmash....

I guess that makes me a mishmasher (mishmashist......mishmasochist)

Anyway lets just leave it at ..........I'm also 50........sans =
ponytail..er.... more post-ponytail..
actually more post-ponies tail...that would make me a horses =
ass....sigh...


I live in Oregon, USA....and have a Chinese Pug doggie named Tai Chi....



Daniel

Will send pics of my FIRST project...upon completion...



------=_NextPart_000_0065_01BDE473.84D0F2A0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I Was thinking about adding my =
bio...but=20
alas....it can't compare to the rest.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Ironically enough...I received today =
in my=20
email...the WORD OF THE DAY...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>and WHAT is it you =
ask????...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
++++++++++++++++++++++++++</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>mishmash (MISH-mash, -mahsh)=20
noun<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; A collection or mixture of unrelated things; a=20
hodgepodge.<BR><BR>[Middle English misse-masche, probably reduplication =
of mash,=20
soft mixture.]<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;I came away feeling that Indian =
English=20
is not just a savory stepmother<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; tongue to hundreds of =
millions=20
of Indians (more Indians, after all, speak<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; English than=20
Englishmen do), and not just an invaluable memento of a<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
centuries-long mishmash, but also a grand and distinctive product of=20
a<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; culture as verbally supple and full of energy as any I =

know.&quot;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Pico Iyer, English in India: Still All the =
Raj, New=20
York Times, 10 Aug =
1997.<BR>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>That's what my bio is....a=20
mishmash....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I guess that makes me a mishmasher=20
(mishmashist......mishmasochist)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Anyway lets just leave it at =
..........I'm also=20
50........sans ponytail..er.... more post-ponytail..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2>actually more =
post-ponies=20
tail...that would make me a horses ass....sigh...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I live in Oregon, USA....and have a Chinese Pug =
doggie named=20
Tai Chi....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Daniel</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Will send pics of my FIRST =
project...upon=20
completion...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0065_01BDE473.84D0F2A0--



----
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 20 10:00:11 1998
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	for rglass-42; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 09:14:19 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19)
X-Path: ior.com!glshorse
From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: HiimLaura@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: pattern search
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 08:58:02 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep21.1582.0>
References: <<1998Sep20.114615.0>>
Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
Precedence: bulk

HiimLaura@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hello all:
> 
> Does anyone know where I could find a pattern of the Virgin Mother? I'm having
> a difficult time locating one. Thanks!
> 
> Laura
> 
> HiimLaura@aol.com
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


I just saw a folder of four patterns of Mary with Jesus that is newly
released by StLouis stained glass studio.
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 20 10:11:29 1998
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	for rglass-42; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 09:40:56 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19)
X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Bio# 55 Tracy Reitman
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 17:33:56 +0000
Message-ID: <199809201639.RAA29848@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

I already spotted it Suzanne,

Well what did you expect???
Poor Patrick has gone totally demented and "ga-ga".
I don't DARE to tell Toby!!
He already went "yuck!" over the fermenting parcel in white..
Cheating?! Well, what else do you expect...:->
Just fancy!  Out of 400 Bung members, he's only just been able to 
drum up about 70-odd Bios.
Poor show! poor show!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

> Tracy Reitman was already sent to us as Bio #48 a couple of weeks ago.
> Looks to me like some Irish Scoundrel is cheating here!
> 
> ELISABETH please note this, but don't tell Toby yet.
> Let's give him a chance to explain first. (should be good).
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 20 10:32:34 1998
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	for rglass-42; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 09:51:59 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19)
X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Things are Too Quiet
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 17:33:56 +0000
Message-ID: <199809201650.RAA30129@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,

When Toby investigated the strange white parcel, embellished with 
funny buckles and leather straps, he complained bitterly.
For one thing, he moaned, it really reeked "high".
So he took one sniff, said No Thank You and buried it in the garden.

The echoes of that poor demented soul are still reverberating;  
demented he must be, because his ramblings about impressionist 
hammocks (!) came through here as total "gobbledigook".
And these strange ramblings on about cigars....?? It'll be the shape 
of telephones next,  and peculiar one-legged cavorts on funny round 
tables in rooms that are almost round - but not quite.

Will someone - please - make sure that the remains of our Departed 
Patrick is safely secured and tied down!!
Elisabeth 'n very puzzled Toby in UK

> Things are too quiet from across the pond so I thought I would post a photo
> Elisabeth's wonderful hammock so the group could see. Notice the expert
> workmanship and design. I think she has a little bit of the impressionist in
> her. Her little shelf to the right is for the exceptional wine she makes in
> her cauldron (I mean still). I think during the process she may have nipped
> a little too much of it.
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 20 10:46:28 1998
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19)
X-Path: csi.com!doverbay
From: "Daniel" <doverbay@csi.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: BIOlogy...
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 10:12:07 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep20.3127.0>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BDE47F.1F817800
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I Was thinking about adding my bio...but alas....it can't compare to the =
rest.
=20
Ironically enough...I received today in my email...the WORD OF THE =
DAY...
=20
and WHAT is it you ask????...
=20
   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
=20
mishmash (MISH-mash, -mahsh) noun

   A collection or mixture of unrelated things; a hodgepodge.

[Middle English misse-masche, probably reduplication of mash, soft =
mixture.]

   "I came away feeling that Indian English is not just a savory =
stepmother
   tongue to hundreds of millions of Indians (more Indians, after all, =
speak
   English than Englishmen do), and not just an invaluable memento of a
   centuries-long mishmash, but also a grand and distinctive product of =
a
   culture as verbally supple and full of energy as any I know."
   Pico Iyer, English in India: Still All the Raj, New York Times, 10 =
Aug 1997.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
=20
That's what my bio is....a mishmash....
=20
I guess that makes me a mishmasher (mishmashist......mishmasochist)
=20
Anyway lets just leave it at ..........I'm also 50........sans =
ponytail..er.... more post-ponytail..
actually more post-ponies tail...that would make me a horses =
ass....sigh...
=20

I live in Oregon, USA....and have a Chinese Pug doggie named Tai Chi....
=20
=20
=20
Daniel
=20
Will send pics of my FIRST project...upon completion...
=20
=20

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BDE47F.1F817800
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I Was thinking about adding my =
bio...but=20
alas....it can't compare to the rest.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Ironically enough...I received today =
in my=20
email...the WORD OF THE DAY...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>and WHAT is it you =
ask????...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
++++++++++++++++++++++++++</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>mishmash (MISH-mash, -mahsh)=20
noun<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; A collection or mixture of unrelated things; a=20
hodgepodge.<BR><BR>[Middle English misse-masche, probably reduplication =
of mash,=20
soft mixture.]<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;I came away feeling that Indian =
English=20
is not just a savory stepmother<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; tongue to hundreds of =
millions=20
of Indians (more Indians, after all, speak<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; English than=20
Englishmen do), and not just an invaluable memento of a<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
centuries-long mishmash, but also a grand and distinctive product of=20
a<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; culture as verbally supple and full of energy as any I =

know.&quot;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Pico Iyer, English in India: Still All the =
Raj, New=20
York Times, 10 Aug =
1997.<BR>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>That's what my bio is....a=20
mishmash....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I guess that makes me a mishmasher=20
(mishmashist......mishmasochist)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Anyway lets just leave it at =
..........I'm also=20
50........sans ponytail..er.... more post-ponytail..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2>actually more =
post-ponies=20
tail...that would make me a horses ass....sigh...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I live in Oregon, USA....and have a Chinese Pug =
doggie named=20
Tai Chi....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Daniel</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Will send pics of my FIRST =
project...upon=20
completion...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BDE47F.1F817800--



----
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 20 11:06:21 1998
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	for rglass-42; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 10:36:26 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19)
X-Path: csi.com!doverbay
From: "Daniel" <doverbay@csi.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Error free BIO-logy..
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 10:35:20 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep20.33520.0>
Precedence: bulk

I Was thinking about adding my bio...but alas....it can't compare to the
rest.

Ironically enough...I received today in my email...the WORD OF THE DAY...

and WHAT is it you ask????...

   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

mishmash (MISH-mash, -mahsh) noun

   A collection or mixture of unrelated things; a hodgepodge.

[Middle English misse-masche, probably reduplication of mash, soft mixture.]

   "I came away feeling that Indian English is not just a savory stepmother
   tongue to hundreds of millions of Indians (more Indians, after all, speak
   English than Englishmen do), and not just an invaluable memento of a
   centuries-long mishmash, but also a grand and distinctive product of a
   culture as verbally supple and full of energy as any I know."
   Pico Iyer, English in India: Still All the Raj, New York Times, 10 Aug
1997.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

That's what my bio is....a mishmash....

I guess that makes me a mishmasher (mishmashist......mishmasochist)

Anyway lets just leave it at ..........I'm also 50........sans
ponytail..er.... more post-ponytail..
actually more post-ponies tail...that would make me a horses ass....sigh...


I live in Oregon, USA....and have a Chinese Pug doggie named Tai Chi....



Daniel

Will send pics of my FIRST project...upon completion...





----
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 20 12:37:15 1998
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X-Path: csi.com!doverbay
From: "Daniel" <doverbay@csi.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Tiffany Exibition at the Met..
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 12:11:37 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep20.51137.0>
Precedence: bulk

This current show at N.Y.'s Metropolitan Museam...is celebrating
Louis Comfort Tiffany............

The Havermyer  window is awe inspiring....

http://www.metmuseum.org/htmlfile/newexhib/Tiffany/RELEASE.HTM


Daniel




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From owner-glass Sun Sep 20 14:08:49 1998
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	for rglass-42; Sun, 20 Sep 1998 13:20:53 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19)
X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "Daniel" <doverbay@csi.com>, "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Tiffany Exibition at the Met..
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 98 16:16:02 -0400
Message-ID: <199809202019.QAA04670@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk

>This current show at N.Y.'s Metropolitan Museam...is celebrating
>Louis Comfort Tiffany............
>
>The Havermyer  window is awe inspiring....
>
>http://www.metmuseum.org/htmlfile/newexhib/Tiffany/RELEASE.HTM


Yes, yes, yes. I was there on Friday. It was WONDERFUL. There were only 
about 3 or 4 actual stained glass windows; one was Magnolias & Irises. 
The magnolia glass was very "bumpy" or loosely rippled, some of it must 
have stuck out as much as 1/2 inch in places. The irises were 
breathtaking. Some were a very, very deep purple with yellow centers, 
nothing like the picture in the calendar. Leaves very delicate. It's 
plated in the back making the mountain soft, and how he got a stream of 
water to flow down into the lake is beyond me. Also there were the blue & 
green parrots, each feather defined perfectly. Lots of vases, some 
beautiful jewelry (moonstones & opals, Minnesota sapphires), a dragonfly 
hairpin I would have loved for my hair (the man behind me said someone 
would cut my head off for it!) and a few lamps. A display of how they 
worked at the time. Pattern pieces were made from brass. The solder was 
quite thick, and the soldering iron had a long handle and a 
crystal-shaped piece for the iron. I guess they held it in fire to heat 
it up? (EliSabeth???)

Anybody who can get to New York definitely should go!

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 20 17:42:31 1998
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From: Wayne Parks <bigcreek@aracnet.net>
To: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-UNICODE-2-0-UTF-7
Subject: Re: Tiffany Exibition at the Met..
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 20:04:05 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep20.1645.0>
References: <<199809202019.QAA04670@uz.ComCAT.COM>>
Organization: Big Creek Studio
Precedence: bulk

Suzanne:
Glass in the Magnolias is called "Drapery Glass" and was first made by
Tiffany Studios. Today you can get the same type of glass made by
Uroboros.

Wayne Parks
Big Creek Studio
http://home.talkcity.com/PicassoPl/camerashy/

"To bring the dead to life
Is no great magic.
Few are wholly dead:
Blow on a dead mans embers
And a live flame will start."
                      Robert Graves
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 20 18:49:14 1998
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From: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
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Subject: Caren
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 20:50:25 -0400
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Hi...  Just read the Bio for Caren from Upstate NY..  since the bio was
posted to Bungi via: Patrick I am not able to write to her directly

So, Caren....  if you are reading this post please email me.... I have a
question for you..

Thanks so much
Barbara
Also Upstate NY
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 20 19:18:09 1998
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "Wayne Parks" <bigcreek@aracnet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Tiffany Exibition at the Met..
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 98 20:42:54 -0400
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>Suzanne:
>Glass in the Magnolias is called "Drapery Glass" and was first made by
>Tiffany Studios. Today you can get the same type of glass made by
>Uroboros.
>
Thank you Wayne, I always thought Drapery Glass was just heavily rippled 
as in folds of drapes. Now I know! It was awesome "in person."

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 20 19:49:25 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Tiffany Exibition at the Met..
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 21:52:10 -0400
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suzy@comcat.com wrote:
> 
> >This current show at N.Y.'s Metropolitan Museam...is celebrating
> >Louis Comfort Tiffany............
> >
> >The Havermyer  window is awe inspiring....
> >
> >http://www.metmuseum.org/htmlfile/newexhib/Tiffany/RELEASE.HTM
> 
> Yes, yes, yes. I was there on Friday. It was WONDERFUL. There were only
> about 3 or 4 actual stained glass windows; one was Magnolias & Irises.
> The magnolia glass was very "bumpy" or loosely rippled, some of it must
> have stuck out as much as 1/2 inch in places. The irises were
> breathtaking. Some were a very, very deep purple with yellow centers,
> nothing like the picture in the calendar. Leaves very delicate. It's
> plated in the back making the mountain soft, and how he got a stream of
> water to flow down into the lake is beyond me. Also there were the blue &
> green parrots, each feather defined perfectly. Lots of vases, some
> beautiful jewelry (moonstones & opals, Minnesota sapphires), a dragonfly
> hairpin I would have loved for my hair (the man behind me said someone
> would cut my head off for it!) and a few lamps. A display of how they
> worked at the time. Pattern pieces were made from brass. The solder was
> quite thick, and the soldering iron had a long handle and a
> crystal-shaped piece for the iron. I guess they held it in fire to heat
> it up? (EliSabeth???)
> 
> Anybody who can get to New York definitely should go!
> 
> Suzanne
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


do you know if they allowed you to take pictures in there?

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass
Tip Pages
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 20 20:23:15 1998
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From: "Sandra I Gustafson" <SUZIEQ1@prodigy.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Bio
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 21:34:19 -0400
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Hi Everyone!
I am new to the list and to glass also.  Pat is being so pitiful that I
could not but help him out and send my bio in.

First I am an artist.  Have been most of my life.
I was about 5yrs. old when I expressed to my mother that I wanted to do some
drawing.  We had this large kitchen and one of the walls had noting on it,
so she gave me a piece of wallpaper, helped tape it to the barron wall (the
back side) and that is when it began.  I drew anything and everything in
sight on piece after piece of wallpaper.  When I finally was able to have my
own bedroom she bought me some paints and I drew and painted a mural on one
of my walls.  It was a scene from the movie "The King and I".
I took the regular art classes in school as I was growing up, but was never
good at what the teacher expected out of me.  You see I had all ready
decieded on the way I wanted to draw and paint. I would do it "my way" and
not what they wanted me to do.  I know, shame on me.
To continue,  I kept on painting and drawing, and doing it "my way".  I took
some adult classes at my home town art center and I really grew up.  Took
some sculpture classes and loved them too.  That was where I was introdued
to stainglass.  I told myself," no self you are not going to do that", "It
is tooooo expensive of a hobby."  So I left it alone until I moved to FL.
Guess everybody, what I am attempting to do?  You got it, and I am having
soooo much fun.
I have made mirrors, garden stones, window hangings and suncatchers.  My
life has been taken completely over with "stainglass".  I eat and sleep
thinking of my new project.  I have bored so many people to death, that my
neighbors and friends have quit opening their doors when they see me coming.
In October I will experience my first stainglass show.  Wish me luck, you
all.

>From : A Stainglass Junky

PS:  You will probably be hearing from me a lot.  With all of the stainglass
experts on here, there will be a lot of questions asked on my part.

Remember: Be kind to everyone, because, everyone is having a hard time.  I
am one of them.

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 20 20:54:16 1998
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: <esavad@home.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Tiffany Exibition at the Met..
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 98 22:17:32 -0400
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Mike wrote:
>do you know if they allowed you to take pictures in there?

Not for sure, Mike, but I didn't see one person with a camera. I'm 
willing to bet NOT. There were a million guards watching us like hawks!
Suzanne
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 20 23:25:49 1998
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X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel
From: "Shakeel Abedi" <shakeel@tm.net.my>
To: "Bungi Group" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: How to Use SG Tools - by Inland
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:45:19 +0800
Message-ID: <1998Sep18.204519.0>
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Found this interesting book at the Inland home page. Should be useful to
those new to Stained Glass.

http://www.inlandcraft.com/howto/htbook.pdf

Enjoy,

shakeel@tm.net.my
Shakeel Abedi
Rainbow Stained Glass
104, Jalan Mersing
86000 Kluang
Malaysia
Tel: +607-7722212, 7729489  Fax: +607-7733313


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From owner-glass Mon Sep 21 07:10:27 1998
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Subject: Re:  Bio
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:39:48 EDT
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In a message dated 9/21/98 6:01:41 AM, SUZIEQ1@PRODIGY.NET wrote:

>Remember: Be kind to everyone, because, everyone is having a hard time.  I
>am one of them.

Words to live by if ever I heard them! Welcome aboard!


Sparks
who promises to send in her bio as soon as she gets a life :-)
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 21 08:06:09 1998
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From: tuka@bc.sympatico.ca
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Subject: Re: Tiffany Exibition at the Met..
Summary: Authenticated sender is <a1a84211@mail.bctel.ca>
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 07:32:44 +0000
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My chances of getting to see this in person are slim to nil.  Thank 
all the "powers that be" for the internet and the chance to at least 
see it on-line.  

Shiela



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From owner-glass Mon Sep 21 09:43:26 1998
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From: Glasbug@aol.com
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Subject: Re: pattern search
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:11:13 EDT
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Hi Laura,
There is an oval panel of the madonna in Judy Miller's book A Stained Glass
Christmas and there's a brand new pattern book out called Madonna by Nancy
Wilmot.  My local stained glass shop just got it in.
Hope this helps.
Marilyn
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 21 12:14:56 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
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Subject: Re:  Bio
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 14:51:12 -0400
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Dani also promises to send in
a bio as soon as I get my hands
on a computer that will allow me
to type across the whole page!
Unless, of course, Patrick will
re-type it for me before he posts
to the group.;-)  Then I can launch
from my own old beast.

And, don't forget to send your bios
directly to Patrick so he can parcel
them out two at a time.  That'll help
him keep the hounds at bay!

pkelly@n-link.com

And thanks again, Patrick, for being
our official biographer even when
life and limb are at risk.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/   =

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From owner-glass Mon Sep 21 13:46:32 1998
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From: B J Snell <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: ATTN: Sparks
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 16:15:47 -0400
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Hi Sparks

	Dani asked me to post this information to the list...... for you  !!!

Hope this helps .....  see below


Barbara....


First we are going to cover melting points of the metals used in

soldering.


Lead	327.4C

Tin	231.9C


Zinc	419.5C


The values are for the pure solid.  Impurities in either would lower the

melting point.


Eutectic, is from the Greek word, "easily melted".  Having zinc in

contact with the solder would raise the melting point.  Which in turn

would require a hotter iron.  Zinc reacts slowly with ammonia, a

fragment of your flux, ammonium chloride.  This could be the cause of

fouling on the soldering tools.  Cleaning the tools as suggested should

remedy the problem.




<center><color><param>0000,0000,8080</param>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

</color><bold><color><param>8080,0000,0000</param>Barbara J. Snell

Manager, Balch Dining

Cornell University

</color></bold></center><color><param>0000,0000,8080</param>			          
    </color>
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 21 19:56:15 1998
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From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: B J Snell <bjs10@cornell.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: ATTN: Sparks
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:14:50 -0700 (PDT)
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Why was this posted to the group?  Was there a message that I missed?  The
melting points of lead and tin are as shown; however, when combined as
they are for solder in stained glass they have completely different
melting points.  When equal amounts of tin and lead are mixed together for
solder the melting point is 414 degrees F.  When mixed as 60/40, the
melting point is 370 degrees F.  When mixed as 63/37, the melting point is
358 degrees F.  The interesting thing is they all solidify at the same
point of 358 degrees F.  The difference between the melting point and the
point at which solder solidifies is the working zone for the particular
type of solder.  Because 63/37 melts and solidifies at the same 358
degrees it has no working zone before melted or solid.  Peggy

On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, B J Snell wrote:

> Hi Sparks
> 
> 	Dani asked me to post this information to the list...... for you  !!!
> 
> Hope this helps .....  see below
> 
> 
> Barbara....
> 
> 
> First we are going to cover melting points of the metals used in
> 
> soldering.
> 
> 
> Lead	327.4C
> 
> Tin	231.9C
> 
> 
> Zinc	419.5C
> 
> 
> The values are for the pure solid.  Impurities in either would lower the
> 
> melting point.
> 
> 
> Eutectic, is from the Greek word, "easily melted".  Having zinc in
> 
> contact with the solder would raise the melting point.  Which in turn
> 
> would require a hotter iron.  Zinc reacts slowly with ammonia, a
> 
> fragment of your flux, ammonium chloride.  This could be the cause of
> 
> fouling on the soldering tools.  Cleaning the tools as suggested should
> 
> remedy the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <center><color><param>0000,0000,8080</param>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> </color><bold><color><param>8080,0000,0000</param>Barbara J. Snell
> 
> Manager, Balch Dining
> 
> Cornell University
> 
> </color></bold></center><color><param>0000,0000,8080</param>			          
>     </color>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 22 05:38:31 1998
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From: "Gerard" <harlquin@mpx.com.au>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: making custom mirrors
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 21:39:19 +1000
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Some time ago...I posted a question to bungi members about the making of
custom mirrors. I remember being told that one goes to the local
electroplater ???
It didn't make much sense to me! To electroplate glass you would have to
make it electricaly conductible, therefore loosing the reflecting silver
surface! Anyway this afternoon I found some references from a very very old
craft book. The chapter is in french so I'll attempt to translate as well as
I can...
"How to silver glass -Precipitation Process -
Silvering is not too difficult, but if you do not want to 'fail' you must
choose a small size project; for example a photo plate of 65x90mm or
90x120mm, well cleaned of the gelatin by washing in warm water. :+)
Always use pure products and distilled water!
1- wash the plate with nitric acid, then rince completely !
2- pour on the glass plate, perfectly horizontal, and let in contact for
several minutes, the following solution:
 Pure alcohol ...1 volume
 Water...3 volumes.
3- pour onto the drained glass plate, the following solution prepared at the
last minute with:
 liquid silver nitrate (100g per litre of water) ......20cm3
 water.....10cm3
 alcohol 10cm3
 formol officinalis ?? ...10 drops
Then add to the mixture drop by drop, stirring constantly, ammonia until the
brown precepitate is dissolved. Then pour in a liquid solution of silver
nitrate (100cm3 at 20g per litre) Stir and let settle for 5 minutes then
filtre.
After some time ?? the silver deposit starts forming, very even if one
slowly rocks the plate in the solution. Repeat the process after draining
the plate if a thicker deposit is wanted.
Wash carefuly in distilled water and let dry."
Tittle and author unknown(possibly Jeu & Loisirs by Albert Boekholt), some
pages and cover missing!
Harlequin
www.surf.to/harlquin
discussion board at
http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb131394


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From owner-glass Tue Sep 22 08:10:17 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1
From: eldondo1@juno.com
To: Glasbug@aol.com
Subject: Re: pattern search
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:18:16 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep22.41816.0>
References: <<1998Sep21.161113.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Nancy Willimon.............
Don <eldondo1@juno.com>

On Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:11:13 EDT Glasbug@aol.com writes:
>Hi Laura,
>There is an oval panel of the madonna in Judy Miller's book A Stained 
>Glass
>Christmas and there's a brand new pattern book out called Madonna by 
>Nancy
>Wilmot.  My local stained glass shop just got it in.
>Hope this helps.
>Marilyn
>----
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>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 22 08:35:29 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Mike's Stained Glass - UPDATED
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:27:38 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep22.62738.0>
References: <<1998Sep20.51137.0>>
Precedence: bulk

i finally got around to updating my page. there's 266 new links, it's
divided up into 5 catagories. plus there's a sneak preview of my award -
"the brilliance award" - hav'nt finished it though.

---Mike Savad



--
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 22 13:40:58 1998
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Free Ticket to Photo+Expo
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:58:27 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep22.45827.0>
Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited
Precedence: bulk

Hi All,

I've got a free ticket good for all 3 days to the PhotoPlus Expo East if
anyone wants it, I can't go <boo hoo>

Here is their web addy if you want to check it out.

http://www.pdn-pix.com/photoplusexpo/east.html

It's being held at the Jacob Javits Convention Center, New York
October 29th-30th and 31st

Let me know if you want it and I will send it too you, alrighty.

See you,

Pam *sm*

--
*********************************
Moswood Mountain Limited
Pamela Burns-Tappan
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html

Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

Join our live glass chat!
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/


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From owner-glass Tue Sep 22 19:05:15 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland
From: Mosfunland@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: making custom mirrors
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 21:07:53 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep23.1753.0>
Precedence: bulk

Silver Nitrate?   Its used to cauterize skin, does a nasty quick job with just
a small applicator q-tip looking thing.  I don't even want to imagine what
damage this stuff would cause, can't see a pair of plastic gloves being much
of a barrier.

It kills the tissue, it dies, sloughs off......

Maureen
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 23 00:13:17 1998
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From: "Mizzi Frank at MITTS" <frank.g.mizzi@magnet.mt>
To: "MIME:Mosfunland@aol.com" <Mosfunland@aol.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: RE:Re: making custom mirrors
Date: Tue Sep 22 23:24:28 1998
Message-ID: <98Sep23.083915gmt+0100.19598-2@michelle.magnet.mt>
References: <<1998Sep23.1753.0>>
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MIME:Mosfunland@aol.com:
>Silver Nitrate?   Its used to cauterize skin, does a nasty quick job with just
>a small applicator q-tip looking thing.  I don't even want to imagine what
>damage this stuff would cause, can't see a pair of plastic gloves being much
>of a barrier.

This is indeed true. I have had it used on me in an attempt to cauterize the 
inside of my nose to stop me getting nose bleeds. However, the solution 
mentioned in the custom mirror posting is only 10per cent. I will definitely 
cause damage to tissue such as the eyes or inside the mouth but should be OK on 
hands/fingers. Having said that, try NOT to get it on yourself in the first 
place!! Simple rubber gloves will be OK.

These comments are from experience and I am not quoting anybody. If you are 
still concerned you could try to get hold of a book on the Hazardous properties 
of Industrial chemicals by SAX.
Cheers
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 23 02:15:21 1998
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X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones
From: "B. S. Jones" <b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk>
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: making custom mirrors
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:43:36 +0100
Message-ID: <1998Sep23.104336.0>
Precedence: bulk



-----Original Message-----
From: Gerard 


>Some time ago...I posted a question to bungi members about the making
of
>custom mirrors. I remember being told that one goes to the local
>electroplater ???
>It didn't make much sense to me! To electroplate glass you would have
to
>make it electricaly conductible, therefore loosing the reflecting
silver
>surface! Anyway this afternoon I found some references from a very very
old
>craft book. 
This method is hundreds of years old and used to be used to make
telescope mirrors. It is very dodgy and unreliable, coatings are
terribly non uniform some areas do not coat at all. The modern method is
vaccuum depositing of aluminium onto the glass. The mirrors are put in a
chamber and the air is removed.Aluminium is then melted electrically in
a pot and turns to vapour which coats the whole of the chamber including
the mirror surface. I assume all modern big plate mirrors are done this
way. It is possible to deposit onto a glass surface via a chemical a
layer of copper or nickel. Once the coating is on the other coatings of
other metals can be electroplated onto that.

Brandon
 
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 23 05:50:06 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  making custom mirrors
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:16:56 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep23.121656.0>
Precedence: bulk


In a message dated 9/22/98 1:39:54 PM, harlquin@mpx.com.au wrote:

>Some time ago...I posted a question to bungi members about the making of
>custom mirrors. I remember being told that one goes to the local
>electroplater ???
>It didn't make much sense to me!

Electroplating is used on metals - inexpensive jewelry being the most familiar
example, where the manufacturer wants a *very* thin coating of gold or silver,
just enough to make the piece look pretty. The process involves a metal-salt
solution and a pair of electrodes. The piece to be plated serves as the
negative pole. When an electric current is run through the solution, the
positively charged metallic ions migrate to the negative pole and are
deposited on its surface. I can't imagine that this process would work on
glass, since

(1) it's one of the best insulators around, and the process does indeed
require conductivity

and

(2) while it is possible to build up something of a *static* charge on glass,
it's a positive rather than a negative charge.

>"How to silver glass -Precipitation Process -

Now this ought to work. It's basically the old glass-plate photo developing
process. I don't know what this is though: 

> formol officinalis ?? ...10 drops

Sounds like an old-time apothecary's terminology, from the days when your
local drug store was "the chemist's shop." When I get a chance I'll try to
find out what it is. (I'm guessing that it's some sort of acid so the silver
nitrate will dissolve - see below.)

On second thought, are there any hard-core hide-in-the-darkroom-and-develop-
it-yourself photographers out there who might know what the modern name for
this stuff is? (I know, these days anyone can get Kodak chemicals by the
gallon and use them without really knowing what's in them, but lots of art
photographers still use the "old" processes to make their prints.)

Maureen adds:

>Silver Nitrate?   Its used to cauterize skin, does a nasty quick job with
just
>a small applicator q-tip looking thing.  I don't even want to imagine what
>damage this stuff would cause, can't see a pair of plastic gloves being much
>of a barrier.
>
>It kills the tissue, it dies, sloughs off......

It's the nitric acid that's the truly nasty stuff. You have to wear those
extra heavy-duty screaming blue rubber gloves (and preferably a rubber lab
apron too) when you work with it - and don't forget the splashproof goggles!
Silver nitrate just stains your skin brown, and the stains take forever to
wear off. The hazard with silver nitrate solutions comes from the fact that
they're generally spiked with acid because silver nitrate by itself is almost
insoluble. The acid, not the silver nitrate, is what eats you up.


Sparks
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From: HiimLaura@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: silver nitrate
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:31:45 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep23.133145.0>
Precedence: bulk


Hi All!

I don't want to get off the subject of stained glass, but just thought I'd
mention...
I worked at a photo lab (mini-lab type) about 10 years ago and the silver was
recycled by means of a machine that collected/salvaged it from the chems.  -
Don't ask me how , etc. - the machine was about 2.' by2.' and  inside there
was a celindrical resoivoir that collected it. All I remember was that it was
extremely expensive/valuable, and it was then sold to Kodak or somewhere. It
was called a silver recovery unit.

Laura
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 23 08:20:29 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!HILLHD1
From: HILLHD1@aol.com
To: GLASS@BUNGI.COM
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: LEAD VS ZINC FRAMING
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:30:51 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep23.143051.0>
Precedence: bulk

HELLO THERE...hobbiest,lurker here. when framing smaller panels I have used
zinc frame & have used lead only 1time. What's the opinion..why use 1over
another for smaller panels ie 15x25 or smaller?? the 1 time is used lead,it
was on a non-straight edged panel.  eagerly await responses!
Karlene Hill (~.~)
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 23 08:36:46 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: New IGGA News Memo available
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:47:33 +0000
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Another IGGA News Memo was sent out this morning. If you're not a 
member of the Guild, you can get the memos anyway by going to 
http://www.igga.org/ and clicking on the glass@bungi.com logo. Put 
your email address into the "join list" blank and send it off.

Archives are available at http://www.listbot.com/archive/igga

Albert

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 23 09:51:11 1998
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X-Path: cyberus.ca!lick
From: Carolyn Lick <lick@cyberus.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re:  making custom mirrors
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:08:33 -0400
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980923120833.0091fb10@cyberus.ca>
References: <<1998Sep23.121656.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone,

Many months ago I sent a message to the list on the methods for silvering
glass.  I covered both the Brashear and the Tozer process, and have tried
both successfully.  It should be in the archives, but if someone wants a
copy, let me know and I'll see if I can dig it up on my computer.

>> formol officinalis ?? ...10 drops
>
>Sounds like an old-time apothecary's terminology, from the days when your
>local drug store was "the chemist's shop." When I get a chance I'll try to
>find out what it is. (I'm guessing that it's some sort of acid so the silver
>nitrate will dissolve - see below.)

Could be an acid but my guess would be formaldehyde.  Formaldehyde is used
to improve the reducing capabilities of Rochelle salts, but maybe in this
case it is used to improve the reducing capabilities of the alcohol.

>It's the nitric acid that's the truly nasty stuff. You have to wear those
>extra heavy-duty screaming blue rubber gloves (and preferably a rubber lab
>apron too) when you work with it - and don't forget the splashproof goggles!
>Silver nitrate just stains your skin brown, and the stains take forever to
>wear off. The hazard with silver nitrate solutions comes from the fact that
>they're generally spiked with acid because silver nitrate by itself is almost
>insoluble. The acid, not the silver nitrate, is what eats you up.

Actually, the nitric is nasty stuff, but silver nitrate is corrosive on its
own, right out of the bottle.  I second the motion that gloves and goggles
be worn.  This comes from experience as I have had my fair share of silver
nitrate-stained brown fingers!

Carolyn 
lick@cyberus.ca 


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From owner-glass Wed Sep 23 11:19:34 1998
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From: fibers@wcnet.net (fibers)
To: "glass@ bungie.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: glass saw/planer/?
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:45:55 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep23.74555.0>
Precedence: bulk

I have been making some Frank Lloyd Wright designs and panel lamps. I
have the Morton System and most of the time get a nice straight edge. As
a woodworker, when I need to shave of 1/16" +/- or straighten the edge,
I go to a belt sander or planer. Has there been a tool invented to do
the same thing with glass?.

Anyone have the correct address for submitting photos to the bungi
group?
TIA
Nelda

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 23 11:52:26 1998
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re:IGGA News Memo
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 11:20:38 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep23.42038.0>
Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited
Precedence: bulk

Now I'm not going to say that everyone needs to sign up for this
newsletter or pound this into anyone's head. But the newsletter
highlighted the new "cool site" at IGGA. Along with Albert's way with
words, the site was riveting for me. I was just gone through the whole
thing. I found Bertil Vallien absolutely fascinating, exciting and
creative.

And I also appreciate the fact that this brings me closer to the IGGA in
communication aspects and I like that. I'm always searching for
knowledge and the more I get, the better I like it!! So Albert, a big
thanks from me on starting the newsletter and keeping in touch with all
of the members. I for one, appreciate it!!
It's also nice that the IGGA is so willing to share with everyone, you
don't feel threatened by sharing information and I love that!! I've run
into a couple of people recently who think if they share any information
it's like cutting off an appendage. So thanks again!!


Sincerely,

Pam *sm*

--
*********************************
Moswood Mountain Limited
Pamela Burns-Tappan
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html

Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

Join our live glass chat!
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/


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From owner-glass Wed Sep 23 12:19:03 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: gunnx4@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: newbie to list was Re: New IGGA News Memo available
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:35:50 +0000
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Dear New Suzanne,

Congrats on getting your workshop set up and you hand back in on the 
cutting. There's been lots of chat here on bungi about mosaic 
stepping stones, but I'll bet the answers and suggestions you're 
looking for will be coming at you right away. Watch this space.

Albert




> If anyone could offer me some advice I would appreciate it so much. I
> have decided I dont want to use diamonCRETE, although I think it looks
> nice, it is expensive, and I really think it would be fun to make my
> own.  
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 23 12:19:54 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Albert Lewis <alewis@vgernet.net>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: newbie to list was Re: New IGGA News Memo available
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:13:37 -0500
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Precedence: bulk

Thank you Albert for that info.

I recently joined the Bungi email list, and have been reading archives
and lurking since then.

A bit about my glass background and where I am now...

I had been doing stained glass (copper foil only) for about 2 years
and was really feeling good about my progress.  I lived in the Sierras
with my winemaker husband, who ran a wine lab out of our house.  We had
no kids, so I had plenty of time to work on learning/playing and messing
with stained glass.  I was working on a tiffany style lampshade (approx
300 or so peices) when my husband died.  I was 26 then.

Real long story inbetween, and wont bore you with it, except to
say...that all my glass and tools etc were packed away.

Now I find myself 40 yrs old, just bought a house with a sunroom, that I
have converted to *my* stained glass workshop!!!  ;o)  I have *always*
wanted this.  It is very frustrating to think of what could have been by
now if I hadnt had to stop doing stained glass work.

I have just gotten my workshop together, table built, and have made a
couple of simple sun catchers to just kind of get the feel of cutting
again.  I was pleasantly surprised that I did pretty well.  The
soldering needs some practice, and the iron needs cleaning.

What I really want to do now is make some garden/stepping stones.  I
have every thing I need...but have really had a hard time getting
information about cement!  I figure this would be a great way to work on
my cutting skills and would make great Christmas presents.
Who knows when I will attempt the finish that lampshade I started!

If anyone could offer me some advice I would appreciate it so much. I
have decided I dont want to use diamonCRETE, although I think it looks
nice, it is expensive, and I really think it would be fun to make my
own.  

The molds I have found in my local stained glass shop start at $28...
Would like to find something a little less to begin with, any ideas?

Thanks in advance for *any* infor advice.   I have spent *hours* going
through the archives of bungi mail...looking for discussion of stepping
stones...but havent seen anything.

Suzanne (new Suzanne)
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 23 12:55:26 1998
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X-Path: hotmail.com!scottjf55
From: "Scott Floyd" <scottjf55@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE:LEAD VS ZINC FRAMING
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:04:48 PDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep23.19448.0>
Precedence: bulk


  Well my opinions would be this:

Lead is easier to solder, takes the patina better, seems to polish 
nicer, and is also easier to cut to size.  It is also cheaper.  Did I 
leave anything out??

Scott *sm*

********************
ICQ# 10443184

Scott's Stained Glass Technical Corner
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Square/8791

Proud member of:

Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

Join our live glass chat! 
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html 


______________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 23 13:27:05 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!jroey
From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: wood frames
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 15:18:53 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep23.111853.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all,

	A while back I was asking for Johnny West's (johnnyc@mercury.net)
address to see about getting some wood frames.  I have to admit that I
was hesitant to order from someone I didn't know, but a couple of people
on the list mentioned they'd gotten some frames from him and they were
happy with them.

	Well, today I received the two frames that I ordered, and they
are beautiful!  The quality is wonderful!  I've never framed a panel in
wood because the frames are so expensive, but his prices are very
reasonable.  I will definitely be hanging more panels in wood frames!  

	Thanks to those of you that sent me his address, and who
reccomended his frames.

Jerri

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 23 15:35:28 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: fibers <fibers@wcnet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: glass saw/planer/?
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:47:26 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep23.134726.0>
References: <<1998Sep23.74555.0>>
Precedence: bulk

fibers wrote:
> 
> I have been making some Frank Lloyd Wright designs and panel lamps. I
> have the Morton System and most of the time get a nice straight edge. As
> a woodworker, when I need to shave of 1/16" +/- or straighten the edge,
> I go to a belt sander or planer. Has there been a tool invented to do
> the same thing with glass?.
> 
> Anyone have the correct address for submitting photos to the bungi
> group?
> TIA
> Nelda
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


yes and no

most grinders come with a straight attachment (inland anyway). but you
can only shave glass with in a piece of glass that is around 2-3" it's
better for 1/2" - 1" widths. other then that, you need a grinder and a
very steady hand. 

i suppose you could make a wooden rip fence for the grinder, then you
can pass much larger sheets through. 

---Mike Savad




-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 23 16:03:39 1998
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X-Path: city-net.com!dany
From: "Daniela Birkelbach" <dany@city-net.com>
To: "Suzanne" <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: newbie to list was Re: New IGGA News Memo available
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 18:30:18 -0400
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Precedence: bulk

I don't use Diamondcrete either for my stepping stones.  I think it looks
more natural with regular cement.  I guess it's just a matter of personal
taste.

I lay the glass pieces into the form (with self -adhesive foil underneath),
pour sand topping, put in some chickenwire, and then regular cement mix on
top.  Let it dry for three days (for the big round form), less time for the
smaller forms, and voila you have a beautiful stone.

Be sure to put plenty Vaseline into the form before pouring the cement so
that the stone will come out of the form.  Afterwards you may have to mix
some very thin topping and smooth out the top.

Glad to hear you're back into Stained Glass.  Enjoy!

Dany

Daniela Birkelbach
Software Consultant
dany@city-net.com             http://www.city-net.com/~dany
*********************************************************************
"Black holes are where God divided by zero!"
Steven Wright

----------
> From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
> To: Albert Lewis <alewis@vgernet.net>; glass@bungi.com
> Subject: newbie to list was Re: New IGGA News Memo available
> Date: Wednesday, September 23, 1998 2:13 PM
> 
> Thank you Albert for that info.
> 
> I recently joined the Bungi email list, and have been reading archives
> and lurking since then.
> 
> A bit about my glass background and where I am now...
> 
> I had been doing stained glass (copper foil only) for about 2 years
> and was really feeling good about my progress.  I lived in the Sierras
> with my winemaker husband, who ran a wine lab out of our house.  We had
> no kids, so I had plenty of time to work on learning/playing and messing
> with stained glass.  I was working on a tiffany style lampshade (approx
> 300 or so peices) when my husband died.  I was 26 then.
> 
> Real long story inbetween, and wont bore you with it, except to
> say...that all my glass and tools etc were packed away.
> 
> Now I find myself 40 yrs old, just bought a house with a sunroom, that I
> have converted to *my* stained glass workshop!!!  ;o)  I have *always*
> wanted this.  It is very frustrating to think of what could have been by
> now if I hadnt had to stop doing stained glass work.
> 
> I have just gotten my workshop together, table built, and have made a
> couple of simple sun catchers to just kind of get the feel of cutting
> again.  I was pleasantly surprised that I did pretty well.  The
> soldering needs some practice, and the iron needs cleaning.
> 
> What I really want to do now is make some garden/stepping stones.  I
> have every thing I need...but have really had a hard time getting
> information about cement!  I figure this would be a great way to work on
> my cutting skills and would make great Christmas presents.
> Who knows when I will attempt the finish that lampshade I started!
> 
> If anyone could offer me some advice I would appreciate it so much. I
> have decided I dont want to use diamonCRETE, although I think it looks
> nice, it is expensive, and I really think it would be fun to make my
> own.  
> 
> The molds I have found in my local stained glass shop start at $28...
> Would like to find something a little less to begin with, any ideas?
> 
> Thanks in advance for *any* infor advice.   I have spent *hours* going
> through the archives of bungi mail...looking for discussion of stepping
> stones...but havent seen anything.
> 
> Suzanne (new Suzanne)
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
----
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 23 16:34:51 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: newbie to list was Re: New IGGA News Memo available
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 23:56:37 +0000
Message-ID: <199809232301.AAA20258@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk


Dear Suzanne in ?????

I think we  need an extra "tag" for you, because there are quite a 
few Susan, Suzan and Suzanne. Where do you live NOW?? Maybe you can 
add the village or something like that to distinguish you from 
others. I suffer the same fate myself; there are 2 Elizabeth in UK on 
the Bungi List, so one is EliSabeth 'n Toby, the other EliZabeth in 
Bournemouth
Welcome aboard!! And what a charming introduction! Make sure to send 
your Bio to Patrick Kelly, our resident Irish,  one-legged "official" 
Biographer from the Land of Blarney . He's anxious not to lose his 
other leg and desperate for someone to rescue him from his temporary 
(?) incarceration due to some mental aberritions he contracted while 
running after sun-dials in his neighbours gardens - in the buff at 
midnight  ;->

Stepping stones;
Cheaper moulds: Over here "Across the Pond, I have been on the trail 
for the very same purpose. I suggest the following. Go to your local 
garden centre and pick up a plastic plant-pot plate for about 4-6 
dollars (converted from UK Sterling....) They come in different sizes 
12 inch, 16 inch, 18 inch 24 inch and even bigger. You can get round 
ones, square ones and rectangular ones (but I have YET to find a 
hexagon, pentagon, octagon or any of these particular shapes). The 
sides of the plates are 2 inches high, which is perfect for stepping 
stones.

Making your OWN molds.... courtesy of Suzanne Haley way back in 1997:
     1. ROUND MOLD
        a.      Wood -- purchase exterior grade plywood.
                We go to HOME DEPOT -- they have precut 10" 12" 14"
                16" 20" 24"  rounds. Saves time unless you have a
                friend or are     able to cut your own rounds.  I just
                bought a 10" round for $4.95 approx.
        b.      Bender board, do not use wood not plastic as will
        stretch). 
                Bender board is used between as edging between law and
                garden beds. Pick out as smooth a piece as possible,
                believe they come in six-foot lengths. Measure cir-
                cumference of round and cut bender board to that
                length. c. Throughly wet bender board (do not soak)
                and, if possible, have an extra set of hands
                available.  
        d.      Place round on the ground, bend bender board around
        the
                round, stapling or nailing as you go.  Make sure the
                ends meet tightly.
        e.      When dry, cut contact paper to fit bottom exactly and
        a 
                second piece to line the inside of the bender board.
                Make sure there are not any folds -- if there are you
                will have lines in your stepping stone.  Spray with
                Pam or Vaseline.
     2. OVAL MOLDS -- same as above, but you would have to cut your
     own     
                bottom and have two seams with the bender board.
     3. HEXAGON AND SQUARE MOLDS
        a.      Wood -- know exact measurments -- Home Depot will cut
        on
                the big saw the first cut free, each additional cut is
                fifty cents.  Make sure you buy exterior plywood. Buy
                smooth, but cheap wood for the sides -- width to be
                one-half to one inch wider than desired thickness of  
                     finished stone. You can buy a cheap miter setup
                and saw to do corners.
        b.      Go to "e" above.
     Using fused glass is beautiful as it gives you quite a different
     effect...very soft.  A fused round or square border is unique,
     but would not suggest if going to have foot traffic.


As regards the cement recipes, they are there in  the 
archives, somewhere. However, it should be fairly straight forward. 
You should be able to purchase ready dry-mix sand, gravel & cement 
suitable for making paths (We can EVEN get them over here in 12 or 25 
kg bags for about 6-7 dollars....again converted from UK sterling) 
That mix is good for the stepping stones. Over here it's called 
aggregate for garden paths. Just make sure you shake the bag about a 
bit to distribute the materials around evenly (BEFORE you open the 
bag!!).  16-18 beakerfuls is about enough for a 12 inch stepping 
stone. Put it in a bucket , THEN add water little by little and mix 
with a mortar trowel (diamond-shaped flat piece of metal, with a 
handle attached). You need to dig deep down into the bucket to make 
sure that every grain of sand, cement & gravel gets covered. To test 
the consistency: You have added the right amount of water when you 
can pick up the mix, squeeze it to a ball in your hands and it 
doesn't fall apart. Don't make it sloppy!! Some people advocate that 
it should be sloppy "like gravy" . I disagree That makes for quite a 
weak mixture. Also I recommend that you add the water to the mix and 
NOT the other way round. MY way is how the professionals do it (i.e. 
those that work with concrete every day...)

A bit like preparing a dough-mix for baking, really...............

I have just found an item posted by Christie Wood in August 98 about 
ready dry-mix stuff in USA:
>snip    
Here's the technical info on Rapid Set (R) concrete mix, as supplied
by the manufacturer:

Description: A unique dry package blend of hydraulic cement, sand, and
gravel (nominal 3/8").  No Chlorides are added.  When mixed with
water, it produces a quality concrete which attains 2000 psi
compressive strength in 1 hour.  Ready for traffic use 1 hour after
replacement. =

Similar
in color to portland cement concrete.  Has almost zero shrinkage.

Applications: Structural repairs & seismic upgrades of bridge locks,
pavements, runways, parking structures, loading docks, industrial
floors, balconies.  Form & pour footings, columns, walls, curbs &
gutters, sidewalks.

Availability: Through distributors in 60 lb. polyethylene lines bags.

Admixtures: Working time is about 20 minutes at 70 degrees F and
is longer at lower temperatures, shorter at higher temperatures.  It
is important that the placement operation be organized with the time
limits.=

After setting, Rapid Set (R) will gain strength quickly, and finishing
operations may be difficult.  Working time may be extended by using
cold materials and/or Rapid Set (R) Set Control.  In cold weather,
warm materials and/or Rapid Set (R) Accelerator may be used to hasten
the set and strength development.

Curing: Water curing is required.  Begin curing with a fine mist spray
immediately after finishing the concrete.  Avoid washing the concrete
paste from the surface.  Continue water curing until the concrete
reaches 1000 psi (about 1 hour after final set).

Durability: In geographic areas subject to freeze/thaw conditions,
Rapid Set (R) products contain an admixture which produces about 6%
air entrainment in the mix. < snip
....somewhat edited (sorry Christie...)

 If you cannot buy ready prepared 
"dry-mix", the other recipes are somewhere in the "innards" of 
Bungi Archives:

Courtesy of Shirley Balloch:
>snip...:  but at Warner-Crivellaro' chat at http://warner-criv.com/
gets you to the main menu,  go to the chat board and scroll almost to
the bottom to a message from Chris Jones, Wiley's Stained Glass
04/05/97. Those are the best info for pour your own, I've seen.  And
if you want to do preform, then go to Stained Glass Biz at
http://stainedglassbiz.com/  (check out their new design of the week)
and then go into FAQ and go into Stepping Stones.


Further thoughts about Stepping stones, Courtesy of "Mark" - a civil 
engineer, dated 4 May 97:
Just for information, some weeks ago I read a post where someone was
talking about the mortar (cement, fine sand, and water) not having as
much strength as concrete.  Not true. The cement/water paste that
coats the surfaces of all the sand particles and all the rocks is a
lot stronger than the rocks. If you ever look at a broken section of
concrete slab, you will find (in properly mixed concrete) that the
rocks fractured through and did not pull out of the cement/water
paste. I hope this helped somewhat. If you're wondering where I came
up with all this stuff it's because I'm a civil engineer.  We had to
know a little about concrete to graduate.  One more pet peeve I have. 
I keep reading books on stepping stones telling you to put your
reinforcement in the middle of the stone.  Bunk!  The purpose of steel
reinforcing bars in concrete is to carry tension loads caused by the
bending of the beam or slab. When a beam which is supported at both
ends is loaded midway between the supports, the beam bends down in the
middle.  The top of the beam is in compression (for which concrete is
a great material) while the bottom of the beam is in tension (for
which concrete isn't worth a hoot).  Thus the steel reinforcing bars
are put close to the bottom of the beam to carry the tension loads and
to prevent the concrete from cracking.  What's absurd about putting
any reinforcement at the middle of the beam is that the stress at the
middle of the beam is zero. It's the point where the stress changes
from compression to tension.  If your stone can be bent in the other
direction (ie where the top is in tension and the bottom is in
compression) such as when an edge of the stone sticks out beyond a
support surface, it would be a good idea to add a layer of
reinforcement just underneath the glass too.

Also:
From:             "M.-J. Taylor" <athena@netrox.net>
To:               glass@bungi.com
Subject:          Re: making stepping stones more saleable
Date sent:        Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:04:36 -0400
I'll be glad to pass along a sheaf of files on the technique --
including a great compilation of bungi archives Dawn painstakingly
made and what I pulled from AOL and other sources -- to anyone who
sends me private email requesting it. Just let me know whether you
have a way to extract .zip files or whether you need them sent
individually.


Phew! And FINALLY:
After you have "cast" your stepping stone, get a block of wood 
(smaller than your mold, yet large enough to grab hold of properly) 
and THUMP the living day-light  on top of the concrete, making sure 
that your cast concrete is level, that there are no air-bubbles 
anywhere. You will see when it's right, when the water floats up to 
the top and rests as a nice shiny surface. Leave for 12 hours before 
releasing it from the mold.
Good Luck. Let us know how you got on.
Get going on THAT lamp!!!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK


Suzanne from X wrote:

>snip     I was working on a tiffany style lampshade (approx
> 300 or so peices) when my husband died.  I was 26 then.
> 
>snip
> What I really want to do now is make some garden/stepping stones.  I
> have every thing I need...but have really had a hard time getting
> information about cement!  I figure this would be a great way to work on
> my cutting skills and would make great Christmas presents.
> Who knows when I will attempt the finish that lampshade I started!
> 
> If anyone could offer me some advice I would appreciate it so much. I
> have decided I dont want to use diamonCRETE, although I think it looks
> nice, it is expensive, and I really think it would be fun to make my
> own.  
> 
> The molds I have found in my local stained glass shop start at $28...
> Would like to find something a little less to begin with, any ideas?
> 
> Thanks in advance for *any* infor advice.   I have spent *hours* going
> through the archives of bungi mail...looking for discussion of stepping
> stones...but havent seen anything.
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 23 17:06:50 1998
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19)
X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: glass saw/planer/?
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 19:34:32 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep23.153432.0>
Precedence: bulk

Diamond Tech International has a combination regular and disc grinder.  The
disc grinder part comes with an attachment that permits a 45, 33 or 90
degree edge

Contact your friendly stained glass retailer for further information.

Arnold Schneider    Creekside Creations    Richfield, Pa.

-----Original Message-----
From: M. Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: fibers <fibers@wcnet.net>
Date: Wednesday, September 23, 1998 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: glass saw/planer/?


>fibers wrote:
>>
>> I have been making some Frank Lloyd Wright designs and panel lamps. I
>> have the Morton System and most of the time get a nice straight edge. As
>> a woodworker, when I need to shave of 1/16" +/- or straighten the edge,
>> I go to a belt sander or planer. Has there been a tool invented to do
>> the same thing with glass?.
>>
>> Anyone have the correct address for submitting photos to the bungi
>> group?
>> TIA
>> Nelda
>>
>> ----
>> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
>yes and no
>
>most grinders come with a straight attachment (inland anyway). but you
>can only shave glass with in a piece of glass that is around 2-3" it's
>better for 1/2" - 1" widths. other then that, you need a grinder and a
>very steady hand.
>
>i suppose you could make a wooden rip fence for the grinder, then you
>can pass much larger sheets through.
>
>---Mike Savad
>
>
>
>
>--
>Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
>http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
>9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
>of the Brilliance Award.
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 23 18:05:57 1998
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From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: glass saw/planer/?
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 20:21:07 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep24.0217.0>
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I have the Diamond Tech combination regular and disc grinder - and I never use
the disc part.  I initially bought that particular grinder because I was doing
a lot of geometric lamps and thought it was the key to having perfectly
straight sides, etc.  However, the disc chips the glass very badly.  The edges
looked like arrowheads!

I was told that I just needed to break in the disc; it was too new.  After 2-3
months it still chipped just as bad as when it was new, so I gave up and have
just used the round grinder head since then.

Maybe I just got a bad disc - perhaps someone else with a Diamond Tech grinder
might have some input.

Brenda Marhon

In a message dated 9/23/98 8:08:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net writes:

<< Diamond Tech International has a combination regular and disc grinder.  The
 disc grinder part comes with an attachment that permits a 45, 33 or 90
 degree edge >>
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 23 19:38:51 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Formol, was Re:  making custom mirrors
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:09:08 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep24.298.0>
Precedence: bulk

Yup, shore 'nuff, I did a little webslinging tonight and found out that
Carolyn's guess was right, "formol" is indeed formaldehyde (AKA formalin and a
half dozen other aliases - this was a name I wasn't familiar with). I ran
across a reference to it in the archives of one of the photography newsgroups,
where they'd been talking about developing glass-plate negatives (surprise!).

So knowing that little tidbit of information, now I can sleep tonight -
although I'd sleep much better if my favorite big furry teddybear weren't out
of town on this chilly night :-(


Sparks
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 23 20:05:14 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: lick@cyberus.ca, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  Re:  making custom mirrors
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 21:45:11 EDT
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In a message dated 9/23/98 5:52:16 PM, lick@cyberus.ca wrote:

>>> formol officinalis ?? ...10 drops
>>
>>[...]
>
>Could be an acid but my guess would be formaldehyde.  Formaldehyde is used
>to improve the reducing capabilities of Rochelle salts, but maybe in this
>case it is used to improve the reducing capabilities of the alcohol.

Hmmmmmm........ I didn't think of formaldehyde.

>Actually, the nitric is nasty stuff, but silver nitrate is corrosive on its
>own, right out of the bottle.

I remembered something on the way to work this morning. I seem to remember
that a weak silver nitrate solution is what they used to put in newborn
babies' eyes in case their mothers had syphilis, so the babies wouldn't go
blind from exposure to the syphilis critters (spirochetes). I do agree that
rubber gloves etc. are a good idea anyway!


Sparks
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 23 20:10:44 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: bjs10@cornell.edu, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  ATTN: Sparks
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 21:45:10 EDT
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In a message dated 9/21/98 9:47:34 PM, bjs10@cornell.edu wrote:

>Hi Sparks
>
>	Dani asked me to post this information to the list...... for you  !!!
>Hope this helps .....  see below
>
>Barbara....
>
>First we are going to cover melting points of the metals used in
>soldering.
>Lead	327.4C
>>Tin	231.9C
>Zinc	419.5C
>The values are for the pure solid.  Impurities in either would lower the
>melting point.
>
>Eutectic, is from the Greek word, "easily melted".  Having zinc in
>contact with the solder would raise the melting point.  Which in turn
>would require a hotter iron.  Zinc reacts slowly with ammonia, a
>fragment of your flux, ammonium chloride.  This could be the cause of
>fouling on the soldering tools.  Cleaning the tools as suggested should
>remedy the problem.

Having been a chemist and a chemical engineer in a former life, I understand
about eutectics and the effect of impurites on melting points. What I'm
questioning is whether the amount of zinc that diffuses into the molten solder
is enough to have a significant effect; it would have to be on the order of a
few percent to make a real difference. I still maintain that the effect you
see when you solder on zinc is predominantly a heat-sink effect; zinc is a
better conductor of heat than lead is, and will suck the heat right away from
the area.

But we didn't come here to have an argument.... I'd still like to see anything
from the sci/tech literature on the physical/chemical behavior of the metals
involved.


Sparks
who still gets fascinated by the technical literature now and then...... =8-O
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 23 20:36:14 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: newbie to list 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 21:58:16 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep23.165816.0>
References: <<3609B488.3B73@ix.netcom.com>>
Precedence: bulk

> I think we  need an extra "tag" for you, because there are quite a 
> few Susan, Suzan and Suzanne. Where do you live NOW?? Maybe you can 
> add the village or something like that to distinguish you from 
> others. I suffer the same fate myself; there are 2 Elizabeth in UK on 
> the Bungi List, so one is EliSabeth 'n Toby, the other EliZabeth in 
> Bournemouth

I had gotten a little confused on that one, I just figured EliZ or EliS
was a free spirit that felt the need for change on occasion.

I am livin on Tulsa time now.  Oklahoma... no ocean, no mountain,(least
not within view) but lots of nice, good hearted people.

> Welcome aboard!! And what a charming introduction! Make sure to send 
> your Bio to Patrick Kelly, our resident Irish,  one-legged "official" 
> Biographer from the Land of Blarney . He's anxious not to lose his 
> other leg and desperate for someone to rescue him from his temporary 
> (?) incarceration due to some mental aberritions he contracted while 
> running after sun-dials in his neighbours gardens - in the buff at 
> midnight  ;->

Now he sounds just like my kind of guy! 

Thanks for the info, and your time...I am putting it all together.  

> Get going on THAT lamp!!!

Dont be holding your breath on that one.  I feel very completely
overwhelmed when I even glance in that direction.  Think I will get into
a class before I attempt that on my own.  I think I am going to have to
srip the copper foil off and start over.  What a nightmare.  *Almost*
worth starting from scratch.  I dont even have a clue where I was when I
left off with it.

Thanks for the encouragement though.

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 23 21:10:02 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Stepping stones and newbies
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:28:49 -0500
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As I was telling Shirley in my response to her email...

I talked to a guy on the phone that does cement work for doing
archetecture purposes.  Arches, doorways, etc....

Very nice and helpful fellow.  He suggested that I come visit him and
bring several 5 gallon buckets, and he will fix me up with cement
goodies cheap, as he buys in *big* bulk~!  Yeeha! He has also generously
offered me the use of his catalogs with lots of molds, said he would be
glad to order anything I might want out of it. Also offered to teach me
how to mix some colors. He said that he gets samples from companies that
would be more suited to my needs and he would give them to me!  Wow! 
What a lucky phone call that turned out to be.  Nice guy!

I started telling him what I was going to buy...and he said "Oh no, that
would be too much, that would cost you $5 ;o)  just bring some buckets
over here, I'll fix you up for a couple of bucks! " 
I hope he wasnt drunk and in the middle of a blackout!
 My car is in the shop..so I hope to get over there on Friday.  

Suzanne
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 23 21:38:00 1998
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From: Kris <kristc@home.com>
To: Witchdoc3@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: making custom mirrors
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 00:01:04 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep23.2014.0>
References: <<1998Sep24.14511.0>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

This is true, but they changed to an antibiotic ointment a long time ago
because the silver nitrate left the poor baby's eyes so irritated.
Kris (former OB nurse)

Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote:

> I remembered something on the way to work this morning. I seem to remember
> that a weak silver nitrate solution is what they used to put in newborn
> babies' eyes in case their mothers had syphilis, so the babies wouldn't go
> blind from exposure to the syphilis critters (spirochetes). I do agree that
> rubber gloves etc. are a good idea anyway!
> 
> Sparks
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 23 23:10:37 1998
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "Suzanne" <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>, "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: newbie to list 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 98 01:03:03 -0400
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Suzanne from Tulsa,

Please add my name to those welcoming you to this list. 

If you have foiled your lamp most likely you will find it green and the 
solder will not stick.
That was my experience after only six months. I did finish it, but found 
it frustrating to the point where I have avoided lamps ever since.

Your bio was interesting and yes, you must send it in to Patrick lest he 
loses more important parts of his anatomy than his leg. He is on the 
verge! Tune in on Saturday when the bios get posted (at least when 
they're *supposed* to get posted).

The Old Suzanne
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 04:09:23 1998
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From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: OOPS-DELETED STEPPING STONE POST
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 06:45:49 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep24.104549.0>
Precedence: bulk


Help! I accidentally clicked one too many times and deleted the excellent long
post about stepping stone construction that I was saving to read and print out
later (Morris the cat was on my lap at the time and he freaks out when the
printer starts up and I wanted to save my thighs from four sets of claws
digging in at the same time!)

Could someone forward a copy please?
TIA
Brenda Marhon
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 05:07:32 1998
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X-Path: city-net.com!dany
From: "Daniela Birkelbach" <dany@city-net.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: green copper foil wasRe: newbie to list 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 07:38:55 -0400
Message-ID: <199809241128.HAA28968@dns.city-net.com>
Precedence: bulk

I am running into that same problem right now.  I'm working on a beautiful
Tiffany style Magnolia lamp at the moment but since I work fulltime I
haven't had the chance to finish it in about 5 months.  Am now in the
process of finish soldering and am having the hardest time with it.  Yes,
it has turned green in many places but in many others it has not.

I am using a very fine steel wool and try to rub as much as I can before
putting flux on but am still having a hard time soldering.  It just will
not hardly stick.  Is there another way or am I stuck with steel wool
flying around in my basement?

Please, please, please let there be another way....

Dany

Daniela Birkelbach
Software Consultant
dany@city-net.com             http://www.city-net.com/~dany
**********************************************************************
"Black holes are where God divided by zero!"
Steven Wright

----------
> From: suzy@comcat.com <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
> To: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>; glass bungi line <glass@bungi.com>
> Subject: Re: newbie to list 
> Date: Thursday, September 24, 1998 1:03 AM
> 
> Suzanne from Tulsa,
> 
> Please add my name to those welcoming you to this list. 
> 
> If you have foiled your lamp most likely you will find it green and the 
> solder will not stick.
> That was my experience after only six months. I did finish it, but found 
> it frustrating to the point where I have avoided lamps ever since.
> 
> Your bio was interesting and yes, you must send it in to Patrick lest he 
> loses more important parts of his anatomy than his leg. He is on the 
> verge! Tune in on Saturday when the bios get posted (at least when 
> they're *supposed* to get posted).
> 
> The Old Suzanne
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 05:29:14 1998
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From: "Daniela Birkelbach" <dany@city-net.com>
To: "Suzanne" <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Stepping stones and newbies
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 07:44:14 -0400
Message-ID: <199809241133.HAA29133@dns.city-net.com>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Suzanne,

I was wondering if you could post the info on mixing colors for the cement
when you get it.  Sounds like you found a great source for help on cement. 
How nice of him to just give you the stuff in buckets.  Those bags (40 lbs)
are next to impossible to carry...And with a 40 lb bag you always have to
hurry and use it all up before it attracts too much moisture.  (In that
case the stones will almost alway break when taking out of the mold...)

Thanks,

Dany

Daniela Birkelbach
Software Consultant
dany@city-net.com             http://www.city-net.com/~dany
**********************************************************************
"Black holes are where God divided by zero!"
Steven Wright

----------
> From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
> To: glass@bungi.com
> Subject: Stepping stones and newbies
> Date: Wednesday, September 23, 1998 11:28 PM
> 
> As I was telling Shirley in my response to her email...
> 
> I talked to a guy on the phone that does cement work for doing
> archetecture purposes.  Arches, doorways, etc....
> 
> Very nice and helpful fellow.  He suggested that I come visit him and
> bring several 5 gallon buckets, and he will fix me up with cement
> goodies cheap, as he buys in *big* bulk~!  Yeeha! He has also generously
> offered me the use of his catalogs with lots of molds, said he would be
> glad to order anything I might want out of it. Also offered to teach me
> how to mix some colors. He said that he gets samples from companies that
> would be more suited to my needs and he would give them to me!  Wow! 
> What a lucky phone call that turned out to be.  Nice guy!
> 
> I started telling him what I was going to buy...and he said "Oh no, that
> would be too much, that would cost you $5 ;o)  just bring some buckets
> over here, I'll fix you up for a couple of bucks! " 
> I hope he wasnt drunk and in the middle of a blackout!
>  My car is in the shop..so I hope to get over there on Friday.  
> 
> Suzanne
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 05:42:42 1998
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From: WhispyBlu@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: OOPS-DELETED STEPPING STONE POST
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 08:02:14 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep24.12214.0>
Precedence: bulk

I took care of this.....just letting you know so several others don't do it
to.

<< Help! I accidentally clicked one too many times and deleted the excellent
long
 post about stepping stone construction that I was saving to read and print
out
 later (Morris the cat was on my lap at the time and he freaks out when the
 printer starts up and I wanted to save my thighs from four sets of claws
 digging in at the same time!)
 
 Could someone forward a copy please? >>
----
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 06:17:15 1998
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Fwd: Re: newbie to list was Re: New IGGA News Memo available
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 98 08:32:00 -0400
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Precedence: bulk

HERE'S A RE-POST OF STEPPING STONE INFO:

Stepping stones;
Cheaper moulds: Over here "Across the Pond, I have been on the trail 
for the very same purpose. I suggest the following. Go to your local 
garden centre and pick up a plastic plant-pot plate for about 4-6 
dollars (converted from UK Sterling....) They come in different sizes 
12 inch, 16 inch, 18 inch 24 inch and even bigger. You can get round 
ones, square ones and rectangular ones (but I have YET to find a 
hexagon, pentagon, octagon or any of these particular shapes). The 
sides of the plates are 2 inches high, which is perfect for stepping 
stones.

Making your OWN molds.... courtesy of Suzanne Haley way back in 1997:
     1. ROUND MOLD
        a.      Wood -- purchase exterior grade plywood.
                We go to HOME DEPOT -- they have precut 10" 12" 14"
                16" 20" 24"  rounds. Saves time unless you have a
                friend or are     able to cut your own rounds.  I just
                bought a 10" round for $4.95 approx.
        b.      Bender board, do not use wood not plastic as will
        stretch). 
                Bender board is used between as edging between law and
                garden beds. Pick out as smooth a piece as possible,
                believe they come in six-foot lengths. Measure cir-
                cumference of round and cut bender board to that
                length. c. Throughly wet bender board (do not soak)
                and, if possible, have an extra set of hands
                available.  
        d.      Place round on the ground, bend bender board around
        the
                round, stapling or nailing as you go.  Make sure the
                ends meet tightly.
        e.      When dry, cut contact paper to fit bottom exactly and
        a 
                second piece to line the inside of the bender board.
                Make sure there are not any folds -- if there are you
                will have lines in your stepping stone.  Spray with
                Pam or Vaseline.
     2. OVAL MOLDS -- same as above, but you would have to cut your
     own     
                bottom and have two seams with the bender board.
     3. HEXAGON AND SQUARE MOLDS
        a.      Wood -- know exact measurments -- Home Depot will cut
        on
                the big saw the first cut free, each additional cut is
                fifty cents.  Make sure you buy exterior plywood. Buy
                smooth, but cheap wood for the sides -- width to be
                one-half to one inch wider than desired thickness of  
                     finished stone. You can buy a cheap miter setup
                and saw to do corners.
        b.      Go to "e" above.
     Using fused glass is beautiful as it gives you quite a different
     effect...very soft.  A fused round or square border is unique,
     but would not suggest if going to have foot traffic.


As regards the cement recipes, they are there in  the 
archives, somewhere. However, it should be fairly straight forward. 
You should be able to purchase ready dry-mix sand, gravel & cement 
suitable for making paths (We can EVEN get them over here in 12 or 25 
kg bags for about 6-7 dollars....again converted from UK sterling) 
That mix is good for the stepping stones. Over here it's called 
aggregate for garden paths. Just make sure you shake the bag about a 
bit to distribute the materials around evenly (BEFORE you open the 
bag!!).  16-18 beakerfuls is about enough for a 12 inch stepping 
stone. Put it in a bucket , THEN add water little by little and mix 
with a mortar trowel (diamond-shaped flat piece of metal, with a 
handle attached). You need to dig deep down into the bucket to make 
sure that every grain of sand, cement & gravel gets covered. To test 
the consistency: You have added the right amount of water when you 
can pick up the mix, squeeze it to a ball in your hands and it 
doesn't fall apart. Don't make it sloppy!! Some people advocate that 
it should be sloppy "like gravy" . I disagree That makes for quite a 
weak mixture. Also I recommend that you add the water to the mix and 
NOT the other way round. MY way is how the professionals do it (i.e. 
those that work with concrete every day...)

A bit like preparing a dough-mix for baking, really...............

I have just found an item posted by Christie Wood in August 98 about 
ready dry-mix stuff in USA:
>snip    
Here's the technical info on Rapid Set (R) concrete mix, as supplied
by the manufacturer:

Description: A unique dry package blend of hydraulic cement, sand, and
gravel (nominal 3/8").  No Chlorides are added.  When mixed with
water, it produces a quality concrete which attains 2000 psi
compressive strength in 1 hour.  Ready for traffic use 1 hour after
replacement. =

Similar
in color to portland cement concrete.  Has almost zero shrinkage.

Applications: Structural repairs & seismic upgrades of bridge locks,
pavements, runways, parking structures, loading docks, industrial
floors, balconies.  Form & pour footings, columns, walls, curbs &
gutters, sidewalks.

Availability: Through distributors in 60 lb. polyethylene lines bags.

Admixtures: Working time is about 20 minutes at 70 degrees F and
is longer at lower temperatures, shorter at higher temperatures.  It
is important that the placement operation be organized with the time
limits.=

After setting, Rapid Set (R) will gain strength quickly, and finishing
operations may be difficult.  Working time may be extended by using
cold materials and/or Rapid Set (R) Set Control.  In cold weather,
warm materials and/or Rapid Set (R) Accelerator may be used to hasten
the set and strength development.

Curing: Water curing is required.  Begin curing with a fine mist spray
immediately after finishing the concrete.  Avoid washing the concrete
paste from the surface.  Continue water curing until the concrete
reaches 1000 psi (about 1 hour after final set).

Durability: In geographic areas subject to freeze/thaw conditions,
Rapid Set (R) products contain an admixture which produces about 6%
air entrainment in the mix. < snip
....somewhat edited (sorry Christie...)

 If you cannot buy ready prepared 
"dry-mix", the other recipes are somewhere in the "innards" of 
Bungi Archives:

Courtesy of Shirley Balloch:
>snip...:  but at Warner-Crivellaro' chat at http://warner-criv.com/
gets you to the main menu,  go to the chat board and scroll almost to
the bottom to a message from Chris Jones, Wiley's Stained Glass
04/05/97. Those are the best info for pour your own, I've seen.  And
if you want to do preform, then go to Stained Glass Biz at
http://stainedglassbiz.com/  (check out their new design of the week)
and then go into FAQ and go into Stepping Stones.


Further thoughts about Stepping stones, Courtesy of "Mark" - a civil 
engineer, dated 4 May 97:
Just for information, some weeks ago I read a post where someone was
talking about the mortar (cement, fine sand, and water) not having as
much strength as concrete.  Not true. The cement/water paste that
coats the surfaces of all the sand particles and all the rocks is a
lot stronger than the rocks. If you ever look at a broken section of
concrete slab, you will find (in properly mixed concrete) that the
rocks fractured through and did not pull out of the cement/water
paste. I hope this helped somewhat. If you're wondering where I came
up with all this stuff it's because I'm a civil engineer.  We had to
know a little about concrete to graduate.  One more pet peeve I have. 
I keep reading books on stepping stones telling you to put your
reinforcement in the middle of the stone.  Bunk!  The purpose of steel
reinforcing bars in concrete is to carry tension loads caused by the
bending of the beam or slab. When a beam which is supported at both
ends is loaded midway between the supports, the beam bends down in the
middle.  The top of the beam is in compression (for which concrete is
a great material) while the bottom of the beam is in tension (for
which concrete isn't worth a hoot).  Thus the steel reinforcing bars
are put close to the bottom of the beam to carry the tension loads and
to prevent the concrete from cracking.  What's absurd about putting
any reinforcement at the middle of the beam is that the stress at the
middle of the beam is zero. It's the point where the stress changes
from compression to tension.  If your stone can be bent in the other
direction (ie where the top is in tension and the bottom is in
compression) such as when an edge of the stone sticks out beyond a
support surface, it would be a good idea to add a layer of
reinforcement just underneath the glass too.

Also:
From:             "M.-J. Taylor" <athena@netrox.net>
To:               glass@bungi.com
Subject:          Re: making stepping stones more saleable
Date sent:        Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:04:36 -0400
I'll be glad to pass along a sheaf of files on the technique --
including a great compilation of bungi archives Dawn painstakingly
made and what I pulled from AOL and other sources -- to anyone who
sends me private email requesting it. Just let me know whether you
have a way to extract .zip files or whether you need them sent
individually.


Phew! And FINALLY:
After you have "cast" your stepping stone, get a block of wood 
(smaller than your mold, yet large enough to grab hold of properly) 
and THUMP the living day-light  on top of the concrete, making sure 
that your cast concrete is level, that there are no air-bubbles 
anywhere. You will see when it's right, when the water floats up to 
the top and rests as a nice shiny surface. Leave for 12 hours before 
releasing it from the mold.
Good Luck. Let us know how you got on.
Get going on THAT lamp!!!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK


Suzanne from X wrote:

>snip     I was working on a tiffany style lampshade (approx
> 300 or so peices) when my husband died.  I was 26 then.
> 
>snip
> What I really want to do now is make some garden/stepping stones.  I
> have every thing I need...but have really had a hard time getting
> information about cement!  I figure this would be a great way to work on
> my cutting skills and would make great Christmas presents.
> Who knows when I will attempt the finish that lampshade I started!
> 
> If anyone could offer me some advice I would appreciate it so much. I
> have decided I dont want to use diamonCRETE, although I think it looks
> nice, it is expensive, and I really think it would be fun to make my
> own.  
> 
> The molds I have found in my local stained glass shop start at $28...
> Would like to find something a little less to begin with, any ideas?
> 
> Thanks in advance for *any* infor advice.   I have spent *hours* going
> through the archives of bungi mail...looking for discussion of stepping
> stones...but havent seen anything.
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 07:09:16 1998
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X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10
From: Barbara <bjs10@cornell.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re:  ATTN: Sparks
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:33:22 -0400
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980924093322.006bd7cc@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
References: <<1998Sep24.14510.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Hello again.......
The original question was about possible reasons that an iron would drag
across solder when soldering copper foil.  One thought was that perhaps
soldering on copper foil after soldering on zinc without cleaning the iron
first would have this effect.   I was having just this problem... while
soldering copper foil my soldering was giving me a problem, it dragged
terribly.  I check all of my connections, with and without the rheostate.
When I asked the question to the group, Dani wrote and told me  Michael had
some experience that suggested to him soldering with an iron that had just
soldered on zinc without cleaning it could cause such a dragging problem.
	It turned out that my problem was electrical.... the outlet that I was
using needed to be replaced and the extension cord that I was using was of
a smaller gauge cord then my iron.  After having the outlet fixed and
getting a larger cord, my problems ceased.  (I figured this out after
buying a new tip and a new iron)  I believe that one of your posts helped
me to look closer at my electrical outlet.... I thought of it, but assumed
it was a least likely cause until you posted a comment that said outlets
can distribute a lower then needed currency.  
	All is going fine now.........  	

>>would require a hotter iron.  Zinc reacts slowly with ammonia, a
>>fragment of your flux, ammonium chloride.  This could be the cause of
>>fouling on the soldering tools.  Cleaning the tools as suggested should
>>remedy the problem.
>
>Having been a chemist and a chemical engineer in a former life, I understand
>about eutectics and the effect of impurites on melting points. What I'm
>questioning is whether the amount of zinc that diffuses into the molten
solder
>is enough to have a significant effect; it would have to be on the order of a
>few percent to make a real difference. I still maintain that the effect you
>see when you solder on zinc is predominantly a heat-sink effect; zinc is a
>better conductor of heat than lead is, and will suck the heat right away from
>the area.
>
>But we didn't come here to have an argument.... I'd still like to see
anything
>from the sci/tech literature on the physical/chemical behavior of the metals
>involved.

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 07:36:07 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: cement and oxdized foil...
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 08:49:33 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep24.34933.0>
Precedence: bulk

Of course I will be glad to share any info that I gather.
I am hoping I can get over there to talk to him in person tomorrow.

I guess I was partially brain dead last night when I posted that I have
started a 30 piece hummingbird!  It is a butterfly!  It is for an 8x8
tile. (I have a mold for that)  Being carless is the pits...I cant go
mold searching.  
 I did find some really cheap glass the other day.
Of course most of what they had looks it too.  Good for working on my
cutting though.  I got it at hobby lobby for about $2.50 a ft. It was
50% off.  I cant imagine anyone paying full price for that glass. A
couple of peices are pretty cool though. I would rather try it in a
stone than this really wonderful bullseye I have been carrying around
for the last 15 yrs~!

As far as my lamp and refoiling it all...  I am really tempted to strip
off the foil...and use the peices as needed and incorporate those peices
into stones!!!!   Many of them would lend them selves to a nice border!

Then start from scratch for my lamp.  After looking at it for so long
unfinished I kind of get sick of it.  
Suzanne, Tulsa


Daniela Birkelbach wrote:
> 
> Hi Suzanne,
> 
> I was wondering if you could post the info on mixing colors for the cement
> when you get it.  Sounds like you found a great source for help on cement.
> How nice of him to just give you the stuff in buckets.  Those bags (40 lbs)
> are next to impossible to carry...And with a 40 lb bag you always have to
> hurry and use it all up before it attracts too much moisture.  (In that
> case the stones will almost alway break when taking out of the mold...)
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dany
> 
> Daniela Birkelbach
> Software Consultant
> dany@city-net.com             http://www.city-net.com/~dany
> **********************************************************************
> "Black holes are where God divided by zero!"
----
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 07:42:05 1998
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: glass saw/planer/?
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:47:55 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep24.54755.0>
Precedence: bulk

There are discs with finer grit available.  No pressure should be applied
when grinding.  The work should just skim the surface of the disc.  It works
for me.  It's great in grinding 45 degree edges for box construction.

Arnold

-----Original Message-----
From: BMarhon@aol.com <BMarhon@aol.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 23, 1998 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: glass saw/planer/?


>
>I have the Diamond Tech combination regular and disc grinder - and I never
use
>the disc part.  I initially bought that particular grinder because I was
doing
>a lot of geometric lamps and thought it was the key to having perfectly
>straight sides, etc.  However, the disc chips the glass very badly.  The
edges
>looked like arrowheads!
>
>I was told that I just needed to break in the disc; it was too new.  After
2-3
>months it still chipped just as bad as when it was new, so I gave up and
have
>just used the round grinder head since then.
>
>Maybe I just got a bad disc - perhaps someone else with a Diamond Tech
grinder
>might have some input.
>
>Brenda Marhon
>
>In a message dated 9/23/98 8:08:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net writes:
>
><< Diamond Tech International has a combination regular and disc grinder.
The
> disc grinder part comes with an attachment that permits a 45, 33 or 90
> degree edge >>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 08:05:32 1998
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From: "B. S. Jones" <b.s.jones@bham.ac.uk>
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: green copper foil wasRe: newbie to list 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:26:07 +0100
Message-ID: <1998Sep24.15267.0>
Precedence: bulk


I am running into that same problem right now.  I'm working on a
beautiful
Tiffany style Magnolia lamp at the moment but since I work fulltime I
haven't had the chance to finish it in about 5 months.  Am now in the
process of finish soldering and am having the hardest time with it.
Yes,
it has turned green in many places but in many others it has not.

I am using a very fine steel wool and try to rub as much as I can =
before
putting flux on but am still having a hard time soldering.  It just =
will
not hardly stick.  Is there another way or am I stuck with steel wool
flying around in my basement?

Please, please, please let there be another way....

Dany

Daniela Birkelbach

I use printed circuit board rubbing blocks. They are like large rubber
pencil erasers that are made out of rubber mixed with abrasive. I get
them from the electronics component companies in the UK such as RS or
Farnell cost about =A31-50 uk each. They are only useful for cases =
where
you do not want to use the normal method of ajax and water etc etc.

Brandon
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 08:13:59 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: BMarhon@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: glass saw/planer/?
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:30:31 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep24.53031.0>
References: <<1998Sep24.0217.0>>
Precedence: bulk

BMarhon@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I have the Diamond Tech combination regular and disc grinder - and I never use
> the disc part.  I initially bought that particular grinder because I was doing
> a lot of geometric lamps and thought it was the key to having perfectly
> straight sides, etc.  However, the disc chips the glass very badly.  The edges
> looked like arrowheads!
> 
> I was told that I just needed to break in the disc; it was too new.  After 2-3
> months it still chipped just as bad as when it was new, so I gave up and have
> just used the round grinder head since then.
> 
> Maybe I just got a bad disc - perhaps someone else with a Diamond Tech grinder
> might have some input.
> 
> Brenda Marhon
> 
> In a message dated 9/23/98 8:08:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net writes:
> 
> << Diamond Tech International has a combination regular and disc grinder.  The
>  disc grinder part comes with an attachment that permits a 45, 33 or 90
>  degree edge >>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


the disc works best after it's worn in, but also that the edge is high
up. if the top surface is too low, that can cause the chipping. if you
raise the level of the disk, so the edge is thicker, you should have a
better time.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
----
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 08:32:43 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: newbie to list 
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:10:02 +0000
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Precedence: bulk

Right Folks,
Our "new" Suzanne has just been re-christened Suzanne in Tulsa and as 
regards our "Old" Suzanne.... well dear heart, age is a question of 
mind over matter. If you don't mind,then  it doesn't matter!  ;->
I myself have been called all sorts of names, a few of them 
unprintable, but now you need no longert be confused. There are 2 of 
us in UK.

As regards starting all over again and join a class, I think this is 
an excellent idea. When I faced a brand new class the other day and 
asked if anyone had done anything before, there were 2 who said that 
they had , some 5 years or so ago. I kitted them up to see how 
they went about scoring glass. They had both forgotten. So a 
"refresher" course is not a bad thing to do.
Let's see if there is any teachers in/around Tulsa Oklahoma that will 
come and shout for you on Bungi!!!
C'mon folks what will you bid me for this enterprising, charming 
young lady from Tulsa??!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
 
Suzanne in Tulsa wrote:
> I had gotten a little confused on that one, I just figured EliZ or EliS
> was a free spirit that felt the need for change on occasion.
> 
> I am livin on Tulsa time now.  Oklahoma... no ocean, no mountain,(least
> not within view) but lots of nice, good hearted people.
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 08:54:30 1998
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X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen
From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: OOPS-DELETED STEPPING STONE POST
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 07:38:19 -0700 (PDT)
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Precedence: bulk

Glad you got your copy!
It is excellent, with alot of time and thought. (thanks Elisabeth)
I quickly printed mine out for later.
Cindy


>
>I took care of this.....just letting you know so several others don't do it
>to.
>
><< Help! I accidentally clicked one too many times and deleted the excellent
>long
> post about stepping stone construction that I was saving to read and print
>out
> later (Morris the cat was on my lap at the time and he freaks out when the
> printer starts up and I wanted to save my thighs from four sets of claws
> digging in at the same time!)
> 
> Could someone forward a copy please? >>
>----
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>
>

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From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: welcome and green foil
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 07:38:04 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <199809241438.HAA30245@ns2.vphos.net>
Precedence: bulk

Welcome Suzanne from Tulsa!

A good friend... the other Suzanne (and hardly old) bought up a good comment.
Green on foil...hmmm algae???, grin.
Well I got it too.
Been working on this Bradley base lamp for yep 3 weeks now and noticed the
"green" on the inside. If I get this "thing" done abit quicker it shouldn't
be too bad to work with. But I also have left a lamp for ages...once. And I
found steel wool and a very strong flux (ruby flux) was the only way to work
with it. Actually I had to take it outside to finish soldering as my nose is
very sensitive to smells and fumes...mild allergies?
I plan it use a good cleaner on it this time prior to soldering (tsp), so
we'll see how it goes.
Welcome again!!
Cindy


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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 09:41:44 1998
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Tulsa Suzanne 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 08:33:53 -0700
Message-ID: <199809241533.IAA06587@oceanus.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

Welcome to the group...you should find it interesting, humorous and
occasionally heated...sometimes all at once.  Too bad you have no mountains
or ocean...what's left to look at?

By the way, if you're a nudist at heart (juding by your comments about
Patrick being "in the buff" with his sundial), you're in the right place.
Elisabeth (of Elisabeth'n'Toby the English Sheep dog) solders in her garden
in the buff at midnight :)  None of us can figure out how she does that
becuase of hot solder globs.  I know Patrick would say it's that tough old
Swede skin :)

And, about your lamp...Why not take it into your local glass shop and ask
them to evaluate where you're at...maybe you don't need to refoil, just
spend an evening getting it all organised again...you know like figuring out
where you are on a jigsaw puzzle you haven't worked on for a while.  That
would be easier than picking off old foil that might have goopy adhesive on
the back.

Good luck.






Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 10:12:21 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: newbie to list
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:23:32 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep24.62332.0>
References: <<199809241415.PAA13545@saturn.nildram.co.uk>>
Precedence: bulk

There are a couple of stained glass shops in Tulsa that I have talked to
about getting into one of their classes.  Unfortunately, financially, I
can not afford to get get into one right now. One of these days I will
get back into a class.  For now I am stuck on my own.  I have been
asking questions as they arise, when I am there shopping and they have
been very helpful. 

Suzanne


Toby wrote:
> 
> Right Folks,
> Our "new" Suzanne has just been re-christened Suzanne in Tulsa and as
> regards our "Old" Suzanne.... well dear heart, age is a question of
> mind over matter. If you don't mind,then  it doesn't matter!  ;->
> I myself have been called all sorts of names, a few of them
> unprintable, but now you need no longert be confused. There are 2 of
> us in UK.
> 
> As regards starting all over again and join a class, I think this is
> an excellent idea. When I faced a brand new class the other day and
> asked if anyone had done anything before, there were 2 who said that
> they had , some 5 years or so ago. I kitted them up to see how
> they went about scoring glass. They had both forgotten. So a
> "refresher" course is not a bad thing to do.
> Let's see if there is any teachers in/around Tulsa Oklahoma that will
> come and shout for you on Bungi!!!
> C'mon folks what will you bid me for this enterprising, charming
> young lady from Tulsa??!
> Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
> 
> Suzanne in Tulsa wrote:
> > I had gotten a little confused on that one, I just figured EliZ or EliS
> > was a free spirit that felt the need for change on occasion.
> >
> > I am livin on Tulsa time now.  Oklahoma... no ocean, no mountain,(least
> > not within view) but lots of nice, good hearted people.
> >
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 11:34:04 1998
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: green foil
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:01:11 -0700
Message-ID: <199809241701.KAA29099@oceanus.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

I've never had green foil, but remember how hard we all work to get unusual
patinas...too bad we couldn't bottle whatever's causing it and get an easy
to use verdigris patina <g>

I'm thinking it might be exposure to air, and particularly to
moisture...after all old copper roofs and gutters go sort of green with age
and exposure to the elements.

Perhaps people are leaving their foiled pieces exposed to the air in damp
places???  A good idea is to keep individual projects in ziploc baggies or
small plastic yogurt tubs, etc. etc.  I always do that when I'm making
widgets and fiddlies for shows...mostly to keep the pieces separate when I'm
doing a production run, but I also think keeping the air from the foil may
have prevented this problem.

Any comments or thoughts from the pros?


Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 12:20:48 1998
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X-Path: city-net.com!dany
From: "Daniela Birkelbach" <dany@city-net.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: cleaning green foil - one more question
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:23:17 -0400
Message-ID: <199809241812.OAA19424@dns.city-net.com>
Precedence: bulk


Can I really clean my tack-soldered lamp under running water or did I
misunderstand something here?    I have always just used a dampened cloth
because I was afraid to loosen the foil from the glass. (That may be why I
am having these problems in the first place).   I am very carefully
burnishing the foil to the glass so I feel pretty confident about that.  

Thanks again!

Dany


Daniela Birkelbach
Software Consultant
dany@city-net.com             http://www.city-net.com/~dany
*********************************************************************
"Black holes are where God divided by zero!"
Steven Wright
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 12:51:15 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Scott Floyd" <scottjf55@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: RE:LEAD VS ZINC FRAMING
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:09:17 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep24.11917.0>
Precedence: bulk

Amen, Scott!  Add to that the
solder joint on lead is much
sounder - soldering on zinc
is more likely to fail after a
period of time than lead... =

might take ten years, but that's
too soon for my taste.  =


Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/     =

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 13:17:15 1998
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X-Path: csi.com!doverbay
From: "Daniel" <doverbay@csi.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: First project done....hmmmmmm.....some observations....sigh.
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 12:18:19 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep24.51819.0>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDE7B5.6A1CA180
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Well I've completed my first project....

Some observations.......
It's not perfect...but how many could be perfectly satisfied on the =
first attempt...?

At first I thought someone was joking when they mentioned that I should =
only need to grind the "occasional sharp edge"..
but I see now that it could be very possible to do this with more =
experience in cutting...

I've improved on that score about 20000%.......

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You CAN cut yourself with copper foil......don't ask!!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

If I improve at the same level on my next project as I did from =
beginning to end on the first...I'll be home free.

My foiling went from quite good.......to impecable...

My soldering went from acceptable to better....

My glass cutting went from laughable to SO MUCH BETTER......

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

My project sits in my windows now...I'll keep it for sentimetal =
reasons...and to look back and laugh some day...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

For me the important thing is that I set out to learn something =
new...and did it....

Come the first of the month I'll be off the the glass store for more =
supplies....

Daniel






------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDE7B5.6A1CA180
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Well I've completed my first=20
project....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Some =
observations.......</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>It's not perfect...but how many could be perfectly =
satisfied=20
on the first attempt...?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>At first I thought someone was =
joking when they=20
mentioned that I should only need to grind the &quot;occasional sharp=20
edge&quot;..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>but I see now that it could be very =
possible to=20
do this with more experience in cutting...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I've improved on that score about=20
20000%.......</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>You CAN cut yourself with copper foil......don't=20
ask!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>If I improve at the same level on my next project as =
I did=20
from beginning to end on the first...I'll be home free.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>My foiling went from quite good.......to=20
impecable...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>My soldering went from acceptable to =
better....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>My glass cutting went from laughable to SO MUCH=20
BETTER......</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT =
size=3D2>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>My project sits in my windows now...I'll keep it for =

sentimetal reasons...and to look back and laugh some day...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>For me the important thing is that I set out to =
learn=20
something new...and did it....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Come the first of the month I'll be =
off the the=20
glass store for more supplies....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Daniel</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDE7B5.6A1CA180--



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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 13:19:31 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon
From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: THANKS TO ALL
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:27:09 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep24.19279.0>
Precedence: bulk

 
 Thank you everyone who forwarded the post about the stepping stones.  I
quickly printed it before my itchy finger could hit the delete key by accident
again!
 
 Also, about the disc grinder, I was just giving my opinion about the disc
part of the Diamond Tech.  I gave up on it about two years ago and I'm sure it
would chip even worse now since it's got quite a few rusty spots, etc. from
not being used in all that time while the other part was.
 
 At the time I was trying to use it, I was constantly pouring water in on it
to keep it "lubricated".  As a matter of fact, when I posted the other day
about how it used to spit water to the front, I recall now that was when I was
using the disk part.  I guess that's why it stopped spitting.  Anyway I get
along fine without using it now.
 
 Gotta go throw the patio furniture in the pool - Hurricane Georges is
expected to hit us tonight or tomorrow morning, so may be out of commission
for a few days.  
 
 Hope I'm up again before Saturday, so I don't miss the bios!(?)
 
 Brenda Marhon
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 13:49:19 1998
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X-Path: one.net!kleeman
From: one.net!kleeman
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: albert lewis
Date: Thu Sep 24 12:47:19 1998
Message-ID: <19980924194457Z19986-26171+487@mail2.one.net>
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albert
do not know you personal e-mail address-could you please contact me as soon
as you get this message--
kleeman@one.net
or 
513-860-4162
thank you very much
debbie taylor
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 14:15:40 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: HILLHD1@aol.com
Subject: Re: LEAD VS ZINC FRAMING
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:24:56 +0100
Message-ID: <1998Sep24.222456.0>
References: <<1998Sep23.143051.0@?>>
Precedence: bulk

In message <1998Sep23.143051.0@?>, HILLHD1@aol.com writes
>HELLO THERE...hobbiest,lurker here. when framing smaller panels I have used
>zinc frame & have used lead only 1time. What's the opinion..why use 1over
>another for smaller panels ie 15x25 or smaller?? the 1 time is used lead,it
>was on a non-straight edged panel.  eagerly await responses!
>Karlene Hill (~.~)
>----
O K Karlene,
here is my opinon.
I prefer lead for all applications.
1- it is easier to work than zinc
2- it is easier to solder than zinc
3- when the panel gets too large (say two square feet - not two feet
square (which is 4 square feet)) it need to be encased in a frame - wood
or metal - anyway, so why use difficult zinc which will only be encased
in the framing?
4- zinc corrodes more quickly than lead 

You will of course get a number of reasons why zinc is essential.  I'm
just as unconvinced by those as they are by me.

Steve
-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 14:54:03 1998
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X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: green foil
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:12:07 +0000
Message-ID: <199809242121.WAA26305@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Hi all,
Just as lead will oxidize when exposed to air and develop either 
black patches or white powder, copper oxidize too. Especially if 
exposed to humidity.
Yes, of course copper goes green with time.
I recommend all my students to either get a quick "tinning" of solder 
on their copperfoil projects, OR sel their copper foil bits up in an 
airtight bag until the can work with it again. I also advise them to 
re-pack their copperfoil reels in a new sealable bag to keep the air 
away from it.
My 2 cents worth (being mainly involved with LEAD)
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Carol Swann wrote:

> I'm thinking it might be exposure to air, and particularly to
> moisture...after all old copper roofs and gutters go sort of green with age
> and exposure to the elements.
> 
> Perhaps people are leaving their foiled pieces exposed to the air in damp
> places???  A good idea is to keep individual projects in ziploc baggies or
> small plastic yogurt tubs, etc. etc.  I always do that when I'm making
> widgets and fiddlies for shows...mostly to keep the pieces separate when I'm
> doing a production run, but I also think keeping the air from the foil may
> have prevented this problem.
> 
> Any comments or thoughts from the pros?
> 
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 15:19:00 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: glass saw/planer/?
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:28:24 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep24.132824.0>
References: <<360A9389.811BE44F@socent.org>>
Precedence: bulk

K. See wrote:
> 
> huh?
> I think I get it but edge is high up? & edge is thicker? is loosing me.
> K. See
> 
> M. Savad wrote:
> 
> > BMarhon@aol.com wrote:
> > >
> > > I have the Diamond Tech combination regular and disc grinder - and I never use
> > > the disc part.  I initially bought that particular grinder because I was doing
> > > a lot of geometric lamps and thought it was the key to having perfectly
> > > straight sides, etc.  However, the disc chips the glass very badly.  The edges
> > > looked like arrowheads!
> > >
> > > I was told that I just needed to break in the disc; it was too new.  After 2-3
> > > months it still chipped just as bad as when it was new, so I gave up and have
> > > just used the round grinder head since then.
> > >
> > > Maybe I just got a bad disc - perhaps someone else with a Diamond Tech grinder
> > > might have some input.
> > >
> > > Brenda Marhon
> > >
> > > In a message dated 9/23/98 8:08:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > > grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net writes:
> > >
> > > << Diamond Tech International has a combination regular and disc grinder.  The
> > >  disc grinder part comes with an attachment that permits a 45, 33 or 90
> > >  degree edge >>
> > > ----
> > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> > the disc works best after it's worn in, but also that the edge is high
> > up. if the top surface is too low, that can cause the chipping. if you
> > raise the level of the disk, so the edge is thicker, you should have a
> > better time.
> >
> > ---Mike Savad
> >
> > --
> > Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
> > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> > 9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
> > of the Brilliance Award.
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


hmm...let's see... basically it's a tire laying on it's side. you want
to use the tread part of the tire. if the upper surface is too low it
tends to chip the glass more. upper surface meaning the main surface
that most of the work is done on. 

it's just like a grinder head only larger. a grinder head you want to
have diamonds rubbing the glass top and bottom. if your too close to the
top (within 1/64" or so), it tends to chip. i think the same thing is
happening here...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
----
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 15:43:04 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, doverbay@csi.com
Subject: First project
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:56:38, -0500
Message-ID: <199809242156.RAA12532@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>For me the important thing is that I set out to learn something =
new...and did it....

Come the first of the month I'll be off the the glass store for more 
=
supplies....

Daniel<<

Congradulations on your first project. Sounds great.

I have a suggestion for you. When you go to the glass shop tell the 
owner what you have to spend on glass and ASK what they can do for 
you. You may find that they have tons of some kinds of glass that 
they would like to move. They might have large pieces of "scrap" left 
over from a project of their own that are a pain for them to store 
and a treasure for you. They may even suggest a project that you can 
make with all that glass. Try it, you might be surprised at what 
happens.

Good luck, Bob

Ps: How do you turn off all that MIME garbage that comes at the end 
of your messages?

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026
Interested in talking glass? Subscribe to       glass@intrastar.net
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 15:50:18 1998
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X-Path: csi.com!doverbay
From: "Daniel" <doverbay@csi.com>
To: " BOB   DUCHESNEAU" <YWAH36A@prodigy.com>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: First project
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:13:47 -0700
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++++++++++++++++++++
Ps: How do you turn off all that MIME garbage that comes at the end 
of your messages?


+++++++++++++++++++++

Thanks.......for reminding me....I had to change this in my mailprog...


Daniel





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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 16:06:28 1998
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: green foil
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:29:42 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep24.132942.0>
Precedence: bulk

Yup !!!!

Arnold    Creekside Creations    Richfield, Pa.
-----Original Message-----
From: Carol Swann <seaspray@mail.island.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, September 24, 1998 3:38 PM
Subject: green foil


>I've never had green foil, but remember how hard we all work to get unusual
>patinas...too bad we couldn't bottle whatever's causing it and get an easy
>to use verdigris patina <g>
>
>I'm thinking it might be exposure to air, and particularly to
>moisture...after all old copper roofs and gutters go sort of green with age
>and exposure to the elements.
>
>Perhaps people are leaving their foiled pieces exposed to the air in damp
>places???  A good idea is to keep individual projects in ziploc baggies or
>small plastic yogurt tubs, etc. etc.  I always do that when I'm making
>widgets and fiddlies for shows...mostly to keep the pieces separate when
I'm
>doing a production run, but I also think keeping the air from the foil may
>have prevented this problem.
>
>Any comments or thoughts from the pros?
>
>
>Carol Swann
>Synergy Glass & Creative
>http://www.igga.org/synergy
>seaspray@island.net
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 16:21:17 1998
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From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: cleaning green foil - one more question
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:34:54 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep24.133454.0>
Precedence: bulk

Scrub it...You can also use Kwik-Clean.  Does a great job and deters
chalking of the solder, they claim, for 2 years.  I've been using and
selling it for almost a year...So far it works

Arnold    Creekside Creations    Richfield, Pa.
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniela Birkelbach <dany@city-net.com>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, September 24, 1998 3:44 PM
Subject: cleaning green foil - one more question


>
>Can I really clean my tack-soldered lamp under running water or did I
>misunderstand something here?    I have always just used a dampened cloth
>because I was afraid to loosen the foil from the glass. (That may be why I
>am having these problems in the first place).   I am very carefully
>burnishing the foil to the glass so I feel pretty confident about that.
>
>Thanks again!
>
>Dany
>
>
>Daniela Birkelbach
>Software Consultant
>dany@city-net.com             http://www.city-net.com/~dany
>*********************************************************************
>"Black holes are where God divided by zero!"
>Steven Wright
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 16:50:26 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: cleaning green foil - one more question
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:30:08 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep24.13308.0>
References: <<199809241812.OAA19424@dns.city-net.com>>
Precedence: bulk

Daniela Birkelbach wrote:
> 
> Can I really clean my tack-soldered lamp under running water or did I
> misunderstand something here?    I have always just used a dampened cloth
> because I was afraid to loosen the foil from the glass. (That may be why I
> am having these problems in the first place).   I am very carefully
> burnishing the foil to the glass so I feel pretty confident about that.
> 
> Thanks again!
> 
> Dany
> 
> Daniela Birkelbach
> Software Consultant
> dany@city-net.com             http://www.city-net.com/~dany
> *********************************************************************
> "Black holes are where God divided by zero!"
> Steven Wright
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


if it's just tacked it should'nt go in the sink. i would worry more for
mis-shaping it. i've always used denatured alchohol and a rag, and
gently wipe it.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 17:17:47 1998
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X-Path: sol.racsa.co.cr!rlaval
From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: Gatewayed mail message
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:58:24 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980924175824.007abb80@sol.racsa.co.cr>
Precedence: bulk

Hi folks,
	I have been sort of out of the loop lately, partly just busy, partly soooo
many emails from you all!!! :) and partly a computor crash.
	I am fooling around with learning Glasseye (just the demo version so far)
and am wondering if I ever really will like designing on computor.  One
thing I do know... if I ever do the switch, I will need to be able to scan
in my photos, and /or have a digital camera...I don=B4t know if I can afford
(or want) such stuff... but would like to hear from you all if you have any
experience using such stuff, and how easy it is... and if you reccoment it.
	Does anyone know when Wissmach might make more Amber glass... the story
down here is that they are out, and who knows when they will make more...=20
	They good news here is that the local store (the only one in the country)
decided that they would go from one small room in a hardware store, to
totally remodeling the whole two story building, and  devoting most of it
to stained glass. The downstairs is to be showroom etc... and the upstairs
workshop for renting space, and for classes, including hot glass stuff.  I
can=B4t wait!!! they have several tons of glass waiting shipment in Miami,
till they are done remodeling... I think he told me they were going to
carry the full Kokomo line!
	Well, enough for now... Meg in Costa Rica
RICHARD AND MEG LAVAL
Apdo 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA

PHONE 645-5052 or 645-5419
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 17:48:53 1998
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From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass bungi line <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Florida Hurricane-  YAK - Not Glass 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:24:12 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep24.162412.0>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

A lot of us are 'hunkered down' ready to ride out the storm, so all the
Florida bungi members check in with 'OK's when it has passed.  Good luck
and blessings to all of us.

Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 19:50:53 1998
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X-Path: tricountyi.net!grannyandpawpaw
From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: glass saw/planer/?
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:19:53 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep24.171953.0>
Precedence: bulk

The disc is not a tire in shape.  It is a flat disc with diamonds on top,
the flat surface.  Water drips on the disc from the reservoir on top and
runs out through a hose attached to the side. [usually all over the floor]
[not really.  I've found the best way to handle this is to attach a long
tube to a bucket on the floor..]

Arnold     Creekside Creations
-----Original Message-----
From: M. Savad <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Thursday, September 24, 1998 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: glass saw/planer/?


>K. See wrote:
>>
>> huh?
>> I think I get it but edge is high up? & edge is thicker? is loosing me.
>> K. See
>>
>> M. Savad wrote:
>>
>> > BMarhon@aol.com wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I have the Diamond Tech combination regular and disc grinder - and I
never use
>> > > the disc part.  I initially bought that particular grinder because I
was doing
>> > > a lot of geometric lamps and thought it was the key to having
perfectly
>> > > straight sides, etc.  However, the disc chips the glass very badly.
The edges
>> > > looked like arrowheads!
>> > >
>> > > I was told that I just needed to break in the disc; it was too new.
After 2-3
>> > > months it still chipped just as bad as when it was new, so I gave up
and have
>> > > just used the round grinder head since then.
>> > >
>> > > Maybe I just got a bad disc - perhaps someone else with a Diamond
Tech grinder
>> > > might have some input.
>> > >
>> > > Brenda Marhon
>> > >
>> > > In a message dated 9/23/98 8:08:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>> > > grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net writes:
>> > >
>> > > << Diamond Tech International has a combination regular and disc
grinder.  The
>> > >  disc grinder part comes with an attachment that permits a 45, 33 or
90
>> > >  degree edge >>
>> > > ----
>> > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>> >
>> > the disc works best after it's worn in, but also that the edge is high
>> > up. if the top surface is too low, that can cause the chipping. if you
>> > raise the level of the disk, so the edge is thicker, you should have a
>> > better time.
>> >
>> > ---Mike Savad
>> >
>> > --
>> > Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
>> > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
>> > 9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
>> > of the Brilliance Award.
>> > ----
>> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>
>hmm...let's see... basically it's a tire laying on it's side. you want
>to use the tread part of the tire. if the upper surface is too low it
>tends to chip the glass more. upper surface meaning the main surface
>that most of the work is done on.
>
>it's just like a grinder head only larger. a grinder head you want to
>have diamonds rubbing the glass top and bottom. if your too close to the
>top (within 1/64" or so), it tends to chip. i think the same thing is
>happening here...
>
>---Mike Savad
>
>--
>Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
>http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
>9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
>of the Brilliance Award.
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

----
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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 20:09:46 1998
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X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen
From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: slow messages
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:29:11 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <199809242329.QAA24684@ns2.vphos.net>
Precedence: bulk

I'm just wondering why it takes so long to see messages appear (mine, chuckle).
Seems to takes a couple of hours, and maybe more, sometimes 4.
Curious.
Cindy

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 20:22:44 1998
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From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: First project done....hmmmmmm.....some observations....sigh.
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:45:44 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <199809242145.OAA09321@ns2.vphos.net>
Precedence: bulk

Great report card Daniel, you're headed for the top of the class very soon!! 
I really enjoyed reading your post, great sense of humor:)

Personally liked "the cutting yourself with foil (and don't ask)"....still
chuckling! 
With me it's the pokey corners (of a foiled piece of glass before
burnishing),that jab me like sharp needles, on already very sore hands.

Keep in the good work!
Cindy



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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 20:28:29 1998
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From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: green foil
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:29:26 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <199809242329.QAA24897@ns2.vphos.net>
Precedence: bulk

Good answer Arnold!
I've never had troubles with my open packages of foil...yet.
So I think that it's due to moisture and maybe acidy stuff (real pro like
answer). grin.
Cindy
>
>Yup !!!!
>
>Arnold    Creekside Creations    Richfield, Pa.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Carol Swann <seaspray@mail.island.net>
>To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
>Date: Thursday, September 24, 1998 3:38 PM
>Subject: green foil
>
>
>>I've never had green foil, but remember how hard we all work to get unusual
>>patinas...too bad we couldn't bottle whatever's causing it and get an easy
>>to use verdigris patina <g>
>>
>>I'm thinking it might be exposure to air, and particularly to
>>moisture...after all old copper roofs and gutters go sort of green with age
>>and exposure to the elements.
>>
>>Perhaps people are leaving their foiled pieces exposed to the air in damp
>>places???  A good idea is to keep individual projects in ziploc baggies or
>>small plastic yogurt tubs, etc. etc.  I always do that when I'm making
>>widgets and fiddlies for shows...mostly to keep the pieces separate when
>I'm
>>doing a production run, but I also think keeping the air from the foil may
>>have prevented this problem.
>>
>>Any comments or thoughts from the pros?
>>
>>
>>Carol Swann
>>Synergy Glass & Creative
>>http://www.igga.org/synergy
>>seaspray@island.net
>>
>>----
>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>

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From owner-glass Thu Sep 24 20:40:28 1998
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: cleaning green foil - one more question
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:26:45 -0700
Message-ID: <199809250126.SAA14516@oceanus.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

>Daniela Birkelbach wrote:
>> 
>> Can I really clean my tack-soldered lamp under running water or did I
>> misunderstand something here?    I have always just used a dampened cloth
>> because I was afraid to loosen the foil from the glass. (That may be why I
>> am having these problems in the first place).   I am very carefully
>> burnishing the foil to the glass so I feel pretty confident about that.

Dani,

It's not necessary to wash your project after tack soldering...just carry on
into the soldering process, incorporating the lead tacks into the bead you
create.  I think you're just adding an extra step to the process.


Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

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From owner-glass Fri Sep 25 02:27:21 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Florida Hurricane-  YAK - Not Glass 
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:06:16 +0000
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Thinking of you (and George) from over Across the Pond!

Saw the weather report.
We were told that it's anticipated to be the worst for 40 years.
Please check in as it's passed.
That applies to you too Lee!!
In the meantime batten down the hatches & duck!!!!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK 

Lee Boe in Florida wrote:
> A lot of us are 'hunkered down' ready to ride out the storm, so all the
> Florida bungi members check in with 'OK's when it has passed.  Good luck
> and blessings to all of us.
> 
>
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 25 03:00:06 1998
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From: "Vic LaGreca" <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Non Glass phenomenon
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 05:38:07 -0400
Message-ID: <19980925093410.GMPA9559@vic>
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This is interesting if your have these Microsoft programs!

Microsoft strikes again!


 In either Microsoft Word or Works, type the following sentence:
  
                                   I'd like Bill Clinton to resign
  
Then highlight the whole sentence and click Thesaurus and see what 
happens!

This was not necessarily meant as political commentary by me nor is it
meant to invite political discussion.

Ciao

Vic LaGreca, SIOR, CCIM

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From owner-glass Fri Sep 25 03:32:54 1998
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>, "'Daniel'" <doverbay@csi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: First project done....hmmmmmm.....some observations....sigh.
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 06:16:36 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep25.21636.0>
Precedence: bulk

Congratulations on your project, and as to your progress.....

"The principal mark of a genius is not perfection, but originality."  
Arthur Koestler
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 25 07:03:33 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Cindy Pesonen <cpesonen@bcinternet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: First project done....hmmmmmm.....some observations....sigh.
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 09:34:19 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep25.53419.0>
References: <<199809242145.OAA09321@ns2.vphos.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Cindy Pesonen wrote:
> 
> Great report card Daniel, you're headed for the top of the class very soon!!
> I really enjoyed reading your post, great sense of humor:)
> 
> Personally liked "the cutting yourself with foil (and don't ask)"....still
> chuckling!
> With me it's the pokey corners (of a foiled piece of glass before
> burnishing),that jab me like sharp needles, on already very sore hands.
> 
> Keep in the good work!
> Cindy
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


for that i always push the glass onto a smooth piece of stone or thick
glass or a hardtable (that does'nt mind being scratched up. i do this
before burnishing. i never get the owie pointy things again. but you
have to watch it on skinny pieces which can crack.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 25 07:35:18 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Vic LaGreca <vlg@worldnet.att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Non Glass phenomenon
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 09:39:16 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep25.53916.0>
References: <<19980925093410.GMPA9559@vic>>
Precedence: bulk

Vic LaGreca wrote:
> 
> This is interesting if your have these Microsoft programs!
> 
> Microsoft strikes again!
> 
>  In either Microsoft Word or Works, type the following sentence:
> 
>                                    I'd like Bill Clinton to resign
> 
> Then highlight the whole sentence and click Thesaurus and see what
> happens!
> 
> This was not necessarily meant as political commentary by me nor is it
> meant to invite political discussion.
> 
> Ciao
> 
> Vic LaGreca, SIOR, CCIM
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


actually it will happen with any happenstance of "I'd like to", it's a
cheap trick....http://www.eeggs.com/
 has a ton of easter egg things including most of the word tricks...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 25 07:58:11 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Granny And PawPaw <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: glass saw/planer/?
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 09:37:23 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep25.53723.0>
References: <<1998Sep24.171953.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Granny And PawPaw wrote:
> 
> The disc is not a tire in shape.  It is a flat disc with diamonds on top,
> the flat surface.  Water drips on the disc from the reservoir on top and
> runs out through a hose attached to the side. [usually all over the floor]
> [not really.  I've found the best way to handle this is to attach a long
> tube to a bucket on the floor..]
> 
> Arnold     Creekside Creations
> -----Original Message-----
> From: M. Savad <esavad@home.net>
> To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
> Date: Thursday, September 24, 1998 6:40 PM
> Subject: Re: glass saw/planer/?
> 
> >K. See wrote:
> >>
> >> huh?
> >> I think I get it but edge is high up? & edge is thicker? is loosing me.
> >> K. See
> >>
> >> M. Savad wrote:
> >>
> >> > BMarhon@aol.com wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > I have the Diamond Tech combination regular and disc grinder - and I
> never use
> >> > > the disc part.  I initially bought that particular grinder because I
> was doing
> >> > > a lot of geometric lamps and thought it was the key to having
> perfectly
> >> > > straight sides, etc.  However, the disc chips the glass very badly.
> The edges
> >> > > looked like arrowheads!
> >> > >
> >> > > I was told that I just needed to break in the disc; it was too new.
> After 2-3
> >> > > months it still chipped just as bad as when it was new, so I gave up
> and have
> >> > > just used the round grinder head since then.
> >> > >
> >> > > Maybe I just got a bad disc - perhaps someone else with a Diamond
> Tech grinder
> >> > > might have some input.
> >> > >
> >> > > Brenda Marhon
> >> > >
> >> > > In a message dated 9/23/98 8:08:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> >> > > grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net writes:
> >> > >
> >> > > << Diamond Tech International has a combination regular and disc
> grinder.  The
> >> > >  disc grinder part comes with an attachment that permits a 45, 33 or
> 90
> >> > >  degree edge >>
> >> > > ----
> >> > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >> > > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >> > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >> >
> >> > the disc works best after it's worn in, but also that the edge is high
> >> > up. if the top surface is too low, that can cause the chipping. if you
> >> > raise the level of the disk, so the edge is thicker, you should have a
> >> > better time.
> >> >
> >> > ---Mike Savad
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
> >> > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> >> > 9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
> >> > of the Brilliance Award.
> >> > ----
> >> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> >
> >hmm...let's see... basically it's a tire laying on it's side. you want
> >to use the tread part of the tire. if the upper surface is too low it
> >tends to chip the glass more. upper surface meaning the main surface
> >that most of the work is done on.
> >
> >it's just like a grinder head only larger. a grinder head you want to
> >have diamonds rubbing the glass top and bottom. if your too close to the
> >top (within 1/64" or so), it tends to chip. i think the same thing is
> >happening here...
> >
> >---Mike Savad
> >
> >--
> >Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
> >http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> >9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
> >of the Brilliance Award.
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


sorry about that, i i'm using the inland twin spin that has diamond on
the top and sides.. and not the diamond tech that has diamonds on the
top only... 

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 25 08:40:06 1998
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X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen
From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: sore fingers
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 08:02:10 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <199809251502.IAA22898@ns2.vphos.net>
Precedence: bulk

Thanks, Mike,
I've been doing that.
Thank God for grid work, I'm finished with the irregular cuts for now.
(But have lost some finger nails). Decided to lower the grinding stone, yikes!
What a difference, grin.
Good pair of grosiers, a freshened stone....truely is heaven.
Cindy
 

Good news from Mike:
>for that i always push the glass onto a smooth piece of stone or thick
>glass or a hardtable (that does'nt mind being scratched up. i do this
>before burnishing. i never get the owie pointy things again. but you
>have to watch it on skinny pieces which can crack.
>
>---Mike Savad
>
>-- 
>Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
>http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
>9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
>of the Brilliance Award.
>
>

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From owner-glass Fri Sep 25 10:38:00 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!GlassLites
From: GlassLites@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: GlassEye Software
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 13:12:57 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep25.171257.0>
Precedence: bulk

I bought the program about a year ago and it took me a few months to get up
the courage to sit down and start using it. But when I did, I kicked myself
for taking so long!

I often use .bmp pictures as the background and "trace" over the picture to
create my pattern. It was a little tricky at first, until I learned to cut
down on using so many points to create curves.

To make a long storyshort, Ilovethe program. Wouldn't make patterns any other
way. I really like being able to print out the pattern full size in  color.
The client gets a real sense for what he/she is buying. And I can print out
the pattern on oaktag (you know, those manila folders), cut it out and go
straight to the cutting table. Also can print a second copy to use as the
guide under my work as I put it together. I used to draw the pattern
(badly),use carbon paper to trace the pattern on to the oaktag and on to a
second sheet for soldering guide. It was time consuming.

My advise would be to try it! 

Cheryl Lowe (in New Jersey)
GlassLites@aol.com
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 25 11:39:14 1998
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X-Path: csi.com!doverbay
From: "Daniel" <doverbay@csi.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Sore fingers....et al.
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 11:08:33 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep25.4833.0>
Precedence: bulk

>
> Personally liked "the cutting yourself with foil (and don't ask)"....still
> chuckling!
> With me it's the pokey corners (of a foiled piece of glass before
> burnishing),that jab me like sharp needles, on already very sore hands.
>
> Keep in the good work!
> Cindy
>


How wonderful to know that others have sore fingers.........:)

I'm finding that my most favorite burninshing tool is a Hi-liter felt marker
on its side....
puts down even the little sharpies..



My next project will be SO much better.....


I'm really looking forward to it...

My front door has a strip of waterglass 13" wide and the height of the
door....

I'm going to do something with it as my second project....

Since the texture is already  there......I can just capitalize on that
.......and add color...
The texture is what I see called hammered on many glass sites...

I already have a great idea for it...

Has anyone ever experienced "serendipity" when working with a piece...
I was very fortunate to feel that happening with my first piece....
Whatever I needed.....there is was......
Everything just went together as if rehearsed...
Things sort of "clicked" in where they were supposed to...
......and the whole thing "felt" right.

My my.....

Later

Daniel




















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From owner-glass Fri Sep 25 12:42:42 1998
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: Stepping stones and newbies
Date: Fri Sep 25 12:24:42 1998
Message-ID: <1998Sep26.10042.0>
Precedence: bulk

Dany,

Try keeping your cement in a tight sealing plastic bucket. 
As long as water/moisture cannot get in the cement should stay good. 
An added benefit is you can roll the sealed container on the floor to
re-mix the contents.

Vic
		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Daniela Birkelbach [mailto:dany@city-net.com]
		Sent:	Thursday, September 24, 1998 7:44 AM
		To:	Suzanne; glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	Re: Stepping stones and newbies

		Hi Suzanne,

		I was wondering if you could post the info on mixing
colors for the cement
		when you get it.  Sounds like you found a great source
for help on cement. 
		How nice of him to just give you the stuff in buckets.
Those bags (40 lbs)
		are next to impossible to carry...And with a 40 lb bag
you always have to
		hurry and use it all up before it attracts too much
moisture.  (In that
		case the stones will almost alway break when taking out
of the mold...)

		Thanks,

		Dany

		Daniela Birkelbach
		Software Consultant
		dany@city-net.com
http://www.city-net.com/~dany
	
**********************************************************************
		"Black holes are where God divided by zero!"
		Steven Wright

		----------
		> From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
		> To: glass@bungi.com
		> Subject: Stepping stones and newbies
		> Date: Wednesday, September 23, 1998 11:28 PM
		> 
		> As I was telling Shirley in my response to her
email...
		> 
		> I talked to a guy on the phone that does cement work
for doing
		> archetecture purposes.  Arches, doorways, etc....
		> 
		> Very nice and helpful fellow.  He suggested that I
come visit him and
		> bring several 5 gallon buckets, and he will fix me up
with cement
		> goodies cheap, as he buys in *big* bulk~!  Yeeha! He
has also generously
		> offered me the use of his catalogs with lots of molds,
said he would be
		> glad to order anything I might want out of it. Also
offered to teach me
		> how to mix some colors. He said that he gets samples
from companies that
		> would be more suited to my needs and he would give
them to me!  Wow! 
		> What a lucky phone call that turned out to be.  Nice
guy!
		> 
		> I started telling him what I was going to buy...and he
said "Oh no, that
		> would be too much, that would cost you $5 ;o)  just
bring some buckets
		> over here, I'll fix you up for a couple of bucks! " 
		> I hope he wasnt drunk and in the middle of a blackout!
		>  My car is in the shop..so I hope to get over there on
Friday.  
		> 
		> Suzanne
		> ----
		> For subscription changes, please mail to:
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From owner-glass Fri Sep 25 14:17:13 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "Daniel" <doverbay@csi.com>, "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Sore fingers....et al.
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 98 16:22:10 -0400
Message-ID: <199809252025.QAA28147@uz.ComCAT.COM>
Precedence: bulk


>I already have a great idea for it...
>
>Has anyone ever experienced "serendipity" when working with a piece...
>I was very fortunate to feel that happening with my first piece....
>Whatever I needed.....there is was......
>Everything just went together as if rehearsed...
>Things sort of "clicked" in where they were supposed to...
>......and the whole thing "felt" right.


Yes, yes, serendipity sometimes, serenity almost always!
My greatest pleasure in life (outside of my husband & cats!)
Suzanne
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 26 00:21:50 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: visit with the cement pro
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 02:11:32 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep25.211132.0>
Precedence: bulk

I paid a visit to *Tulsa Castings* today, and spent about 2 hours with
Greg, the owner. They do decorative cement work mostly for home
builders. I was pretty overwhelmed at how *nice* they were to me.  Very,
very helpful.  Gorgeous work they do. 

Ok, Here is what I have to offer as a result of my visit.

First, I believe someone said they were having trouble finding molds,
particularly a hexagon.

Call this company and get their catalog!!  Nunnikhoven (800) 356-4632
a 16" hex was $10.00 (I think)  They have lots and lots to choose from
and each in different sizes.

Greg (the pro) suggested I get "Turn Concrete into gold".  It is the
catalog for Concrete Machinery Co.  the catalog isnt of interest
*except* there are 16 pages of cement info in the back.  The catalog
costs $10.00  He let me take his and make myself a copy of the info.
**Concrete Machinery Co  (704)322-7710

As far as color goes Greg recommends using *Solomon Colors*.  He says
they will send free samples.  Sorry I dont have a number for them.

Greg uses a 50/50 mix of white portland and gray portland cement. 
Pretty fine sand, and *stealth fiber* (gave me a baggie of it).

Also, gave me a jar of some mold release called 880, really cool stuff.
He showed me how to do it and promised the stone will just "pop out" of
the mold.  Sure enough he demonstrated how to get it out and it just
popped right out!  You rub it into the mold with one cloth and then wipe
it out with another, leaving just a very fine layer on the mold. He
recommends against giving it a whack! 

It does a great job of cleaning the molds as well.

They have invited me to come see them if I have any problems and even
offered for me to do my first batch there so they could walk me through
it!!  Very nice offer.  

  I purchased 10 gallons of sand, the release agent, stealth fiber, for
$10 from him, not to mention all the advice and friendship they offered,
and letting me take their book to make copies. Looking in the phone book
really paid off for me.

If I think of anything I left out I will let you know.
Sorry to get this posted so late, spent some time at the Dr's office
today getting 3 stiches in my 2 yr old's forehead, who dove for a
 pillow and missed!  

Tulsa Suzanne, loving those inside curves!
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 26 06:36:32 1998
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X-Path: mail.wittenberg.edu!rcutler
From: "Robert S. Cutler" <rcutler@wittenberg.EDU>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Glasseye
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 09:01:33 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1998Sep26.5133.0>
Precedence: bulk

Ihave been using Glasseye for a year, and I love it. Whenever I have had a
question about how to use the program more effectively, I have contacted
the company and have received prompt helpful replies. 
I found that tracing .bmp pictures was easier if I enlarged the area to be
traced first. Anyhow, just my 2 pennies worth. 
Bob Cutler

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 26 06:49:50 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: concrete links
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 09:23:31 +0000
Message-ID: <199809261613.MAA15021@vger.vgernet.net>
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Those of you who are interested in concrete and mosaic stones, I 
looked up "Concrete Machinery Co" and found the web site of The 
Decorative Concrete Network at

http://www.decorativeconcrete.com/

They have a chat forum, too, which is where Concrete Machinery Co. 
was also mentioned.

Nunnikhoven was also mentioned here. They have a web site at
http://www.nunnikhoven.com/

They have an online catalog.

albert
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 26 07:40:52 1998
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X-Path: home.com!leestat7
From: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: All clear, all ok
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 10:15:16 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep26.61516.0>
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Hi,

All OK here, the storm moved far enough into the gulf, we did not even
get much rain.  I was all prepared with sand bags, contact film on the
windows, brought all the plants in off of the patio, got a stash of
hurricane food, extra prescriptions, 10 5gal bottles of distilled water
(I get drinking water delivered anyway), and was ready to ride it out. 
I even got a good nights sleep last night.  So I guess I'm ready if
another one comes this way.  Now back to some glass production.  

I hope all the others in Florida fared as well, the hurricane is now
headed for the north gulf coast, wish the people up there well. 

Please check in with OK's Florida bungi group???


Lee Boe
Rain-Boe's Creations
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 26 07:56:54 1998
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X-Path: bc.sympatico.ca!tuka
From: tuka@bc.sympatico.ca
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Front surface mirror
Summary: Authenticated sender is <a1a84211@mail.bctel.ca>
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 07:24:10 +0000
Message-ID: <199809261420.HAA13117@mail1.bctel.ca>
Precedence: bulk

Hi everyone

I have finally found a WHOLE piece of front surface mirror that I'll 
be using in kaleidoscopes.  I haven't cut this before and have a 
couple questons before I start.  This stuff is very costly and I 
don't want to mess it up.

One surface of the mirror has a sheet of blue plastic film (protector 
I assume).  I peeled back a bit and peeked.  Both sides look equally 
shiney and smooth.

1		Is the covered side the face of the mirror?

2		If I cut on the front - do I have to remove the film first?

3		Would it be better to cut on the back?

4		Does anybody know any "glass gods" to say a prayer to
		before I try cutting  this stuff?

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

Shiela
		
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 26 08:10:22 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!gcanvas
From: "James C. Kelly" <gcanvas@compuserve.com>
To: bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Art of Glass
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 10:21:37 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep26.62137.0>
Precedence: bulk

>From a lurker,
In April, Hampton Roads, that is, =

the communities surrounding
Norfolk and Virginia Beach,
Virginia will host a variety of
art exhibits, including the works
of Dale Chihuly, Stephen
Antonakos, William Morris,
and Therman Statom.
Entitled Art of Glass, the =

shows will be at the =

Chrysler Museum, Norfolk,
the Contemporary Art Center,
Virginia Beach and 11 other
art centers locally.
I will try to list all FYI.  Please
excuse compuserve short
line format.
In the development stage are
the following:
Installations by Antonakos
(neon), Statom (flat glass),
Morris (hot glass) at the =

Chrysler Museum,
17 April-August 29, '99

Installations by Chihuly
Contemporary Art Center
Virginia Beach
17 April-27 June, '99
35 year retrospective

Progressions in Glass
7 glass masters who
work with Chihuly
Contemporary Art Center
17 July-5 Sept., '99

Antonakas
The Arts Center of the =

Portsmouth Museums
4 March-30 May '99

Floral motif glass from the
Chrysler collection at the
Peninsula Fine Arts Center
Newport News
1 April- 25 April '99

Southern Glass Now
d'Art Center, Norfolk
15 April-30 June '99
invitational show 40 artists

Life Stories in Glass
Charles Taylor Art Center
Hampton
6 April-16 May '99

Works by international
glass artists at the =

Visual Arts Center at
Tidewater Community College
Olde Towne Portsmouth
23 May-8 July '99

More to follow as dates are
firmed for more Chihuly,
Native American glass beads,
African trade beads,
Japanese glass shows

Please also note the =

Chrysler has a permanent
exhibition of Tiffany works.
I'm NOT on the local tourism
boards, just a glass hobbyist.

Jim Kelly
Virginia Beach VA
gcanvas@compuserve.com
Saturday, September 26, 1998
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 26 08:45:21 1998
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From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: All clear, all ok
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 10:55:32 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep26.145532.0>
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Lee Boe and All - Our area also escaped damage and I made the same
preparations you did, so I'm also ready for the next one.  

As I've been telling myself, the hurricanes and tropical storms are the price
we pay for living in Paradise!

Brenda Marhon
East Coast of South Florida
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 26 08:58:35 1998
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Molds-It's about time 
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 08:07:26 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep26.1726.0>
Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited
Precedence: bulk

Suzanne from Tulsa,

Thank you very much for the awesome info on the concrete and molds. You
know I've been looking for 6 months, 6 months mind you for a good mold
company. And along you come with this great info. And Albert, thanks for
getting that url. I'm in mold heaven! Couldn't care less if the sky fell
in today, I've got a mold resource, woo hoo!!

See you,

Pam *sm*

--
*********************************
Moswood Mountain Limited
Pamela Burns-Tappan
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html

Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

Join our live glass chat!
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.igga.org/


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From owner-glass Sat Sep 26 09:17:31 1998
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X-Path: home.com!kristc
From: Kris <kristc@home.com>
To: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Florida Hurricane-  YAK - Not Glass
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 10:15:17 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep26.61517.0>
References: <<1998Sep24.162412.0>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

Reporting in from Sarasota, all OK here. That sure was an anticlimax!
Whew. We got lucky. Anyone on the panhandle, Alabama, Lousiana areas? It
might get tense up there soon.
Kris

leestat7 wrote:
> 
> A lot of us are 'hunkered down' ready to ride out the storm, so all the
> Florida bungi members check in with 'OK's when it has passed.  Good luck
> and blessings to all of us.
> 
> Lee Boe
> Rain-Boe's Creations
> ----
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 26 09:31:56 1998
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Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------A973811CBEE90EC21211A63B"
Subject: Hurricane
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 08:22:24 -0700
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--------------A973811CBEE90EC21211A63B
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

For our Floridian buddies, (Lee or anyone that is still with us net
wise)

Let us know when you get this message how you are doing, any damage you
may have or any help we can give!!

I'm sitting here in my comfortable home with beautiful weather thinking
about how lucky I am to not have to go through what all of you are. And
it's not over yet! So hang in there, keep your spirits up and please
keep us informed won't you.

I did hear from someone in Alabama yesterday and they are on alert and
getting ready for the worst possible scenario. So hopefully this will
pass soon! Winds I know are at 105 miles per hour at 8:00 a.m. and
Georges is moving to the west. 200 people dead but I haven't heard of
fatalities hear in the U.S. yet.
The satellite picture I saw had all of Florida encompassed except for
the extreme North. That's about all I know, so if you need some help
don't hesitate to ask or e-mail me personally. Alrighty?

Praying for ya,

Pam *sm*


--
*********************************
Moswood Mountain Limited
Pamela Burns-Tappan
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html

Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

Join our live glass chat!
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.igga.org/


--------------A973811CBEE90EC21211A63B
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
For our Floridian buddies, (Lee or anyone that is still with us net wise)

<P>Let us know when you get this message how you are doing, any damage
you may have or any help we can give!!

<P>I'm sitting here in my comfortable home with beautiful weather thinking
about how lucky I am to <B>not</B> have to go through what all of you are.
And it's not over yet! So hang in there, keep your spirits up and please
keep us informed won't you.

<P>I did hear from someone in Alabama yesterday and they are on alert and
getting ready for the worst possible scenario. So hopefully this will pass
soon! Winds I know are at 105 miles per hour at 8:00 a.m. and Georges is
moving to the west. 200 people dead but I haven't heard of fatalities hear
in the U.S. yet.
<BR>The satellite picture I saw had all of Florida encompassed except for
the extreme North. That's about all I know, so if you need some help don't
hesitate to ask or e-mail me personally. Alrighty?

<P>Praying for ya,

<P>Pam *sm*
<BR>&nbsp;

<P>--
<BR>*********************************
<BR>Moswood Mountain Limited
<BR>Pamela Burns-Tappan
<BR><A HREF="http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html">http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html</A>

<P>Proud Member Of:

<P>The Stained Glass Artists
<BR><A HREF="http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html">http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html</A>

<P>Join our live glass chat!
<BR><A HREF="http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html">http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html</A>
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>The International Guild of Glass Artists
<BR><A HREF="http://www.igga.org/">http://www.igga.org/</A>
<BR>&nbsp;</HTML>

--------------A973811CBEE90EC21211A63B--

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 26 09:46:48 1998
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To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: All clear, all o.k.
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 08:26:15 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep26.12615.0>
Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited
Precedence: bulk

Thanks Lee!

Glad to hear your fine, was worried about ya!!

See you,

Pam *sm*


--
*********************************
Moswood Mountain Limited
Pamela Burns-Tappan
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html

Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

Join our live glass chat!
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.igga.org/


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From owner-glass Sat Sep 26 10:18:11 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Molds-It's about time
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 11:21:51 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep26.62151.0>
Precedence: bulk

> Suzanne from Tulsa,
> 
> Thank you very much for the awesome info on the concrete and molds. You
> know I've been looking for 6 months, 6 months mind you for a good mold
> company. And along you come with this great info. And Albert, thanks for
> getting that url. I'm in mold heaven! Couldn't care less if the sky fell
> in today, I've got a mold resource, woo hoo!!
> 
> See you,
> 
> Pam *sm*
> 
I hear ya, and  I sure liked the prices of their molds!
Pam, I am not finding the molds I saw yesterday in Nunnikhoven's online
catalog...

The stock numbers I saw yesterday were...

2462 for 16" hex

2493 for 16" round

2519 for 16" Octogon

They also have them in different sizes.  I believe these were all $10.
I see online they also charge $10 for their catalog.  Looks to be worth
it to me as they also have some good info about the use of cement and
mold care.

Yes, Thanks Albert for the Url.  


Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 26 10:31:40 1998
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From: "Granny And PawPaw" <grannyandpawpaw@tricountyi.net>
To: "bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Front surface mirror
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 11:29:28 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep26.72928.0>
Precedence: bulk

The covered surface is the front.  Do not peal the plastic until you're
ready to assemble.  Cut the back.  After snapping, carefully cut the plastic
with an exacto, or very sharp knife.  To test for front surface if you goof
and peal the plastic, hold a pencil against the surface and look at the
reflection.  If the point seems to be floating it's on the back.  If it
seems to have firm contact, you're looking at the face.

Tain't hard

Arnold Schneider    Creekside Creations    Richfield, Pa.

-----Original Message-----
From: tuka@bc.sympatico.ca <tuka@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Saturday, September 26, 1998 11:08 AM
Subject: Front surface mirror


>Hi everyone
>
>I have finally found a WHOLE piece of front surface mirror that I'll
>be using in kaleidoscopes.  I haven't cut this before and have a
>couple questons before I start.  This stuff is very costly and I
>don't want to mess it up.
>
>One surface of the mirror has a sheet of blue plastic film (protector
>I assume).  I peeled back a bit and peeked.  Both sides look equally
>shiney and smooth.
>
>1 Is the covered side the face of the mirror?
>
>2 If I cut on the front - do I have to remove the film first?
>
>3 Would it be better to cut on the back?
>
>4 Does anybody know any "glass gods" to say a prayer to
> before I try cutting  this stuff?
>
>Thanks in advance for your suggestions.
>
>Shiela
>
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 26 11:49:02 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bio # 56 Carol Tombro
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 13:14:19 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep26.81419.0>
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I started stained glass classes about 2 years ago.  After 8 lessons, the
last of them sharing a table with someone shaking a stepping stone while
I was soldering, I decided books and Bungi were the way to go and my own
common sense.  Mostly, my work has been panels, large and small, and I'm
still looking at a lamp that is partially finished and I hate it.  So
far my work has been with copper foil, lead is intimidating me for some
reason, but there are a lot of projects I've seen where the instructions
seemed understandable to me, so I will give it a go. I have acquired
quite a selection of books on the subject and welcome any suggestions
from anyone on Bungi for further purchases.

I live on a barrier island off the coast of North Carolina, by way of
New Jersey,  and have found only  one glass studio/supplier within a
reasonable distance.  Luckily, her taste in art glass is discriminating
and my bins runneth over right now with "I must have that piece of
glass", even though I don't know yet what I'm going to do with it.

Stained glass came into my life when suddenly I was faced with my own
mortality and the things "I always wanted to do" looked as though they
might have to wait for reincarnation.  Luckily for me, I got a second
chance and the enjoyment of even looking at a beautiful piece of glass
soothes me.  I am not particularly artistic, leaving that to my daughter
who had an art pottery studio in Atlanta up until a few weeks ago, when
she decided to elope and move to Italy last week as her husband's
business is there.  She encouraged me, however slight I thought my
abilities would be, to start doing stained glass and she is proud of her
mother I do believe.

Mostly, what I do I give away with the admonition that they don't have
to bring it out of the attic when I come to visit.  My feelings wouldn't
be hurt if they didn't like a particular piece, but a lot of thought
goes into what I do for a particular person.  So far family and friends
have been most appreciative.

This group has been so informative and interesting - love those back and
forth conversations btw - and I'm so glad I found Bungi.  This might not
have been the most interesting bio you've seen, but the best I can do at
9 am.  Have to have consideration for Patrick's anatomy, and get this in
for the weekend.

Carol Tombro

From owner-glass Sat Sep 26 12:07:52 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bios Alas and Alack -  gone to the dogs
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 13:22:21 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep26.82221.0>
Precedence: bulk

Due to the lack of bios I am posting the following bio from a canine
critter. I am desperate to keep that hound from hell off my gnomon.
By the way it is healing nicely.

*********************************

Okay Patrick....I think you've been sipping the Irish Whiskey or the Scotch
a
little too much lately--do you realize this is the third week in the last
four
that you've posted my bio???  *smile*  Here's one to replace it with...

My name is Jack and I'm the canine housemate of Tracy Reitmann (aka
Northernlights).  Actually she has yet another housemate named Rochester,
but
he's a feline, and, well, I don't really count him since he's not really
around much.  For one thing he spends WAY too much time outdoors, UNLEASHED
at
that(!) which completely confuses me since Tracy absolutely insists on
hooking
me up to a lead....guess she doesn'st like to get worried when I decide to
do
a "walk-about" all over the neighborhood.  And when he IS inside the house
all
he ever does is sleep in one spot all day.  As a canine I find this
completely
confusing since I find it much nicer to wander the house during the day when
Tracy's at work, sleeping an hour in one room (um, yes, I can admit it here,
on the bed rather than the floor), then moving to another room (oh, okay,
since I'm being honest, yes, I'll nap a wee bit on the couch or chair in the
livingroom).  The traveling nap session I've figure out works rather well
since by the time Tracy comes home from work I've worked my way to the
downstairs rooms and am sleeping soundly on the floor of her workshop (nice
cool concrete!) and she probably just figures I've been there all day.  I
had
my 8th birthday this last May and for my birthday I got my usual present --
a
nice big bone fresh from the butcher shop (I'd rather have the bone AND the
meat that was cut off from it, but haven't figured out how to tell her yet).
I was born in San Francisco which is where Tracy and I met.  She took me
into
her home but at that time I had to share the space with not one, but THREE
cats!  I thought I was going to die there for a while.  As soon as Tracy
would
leave for work the terror would begin -- there was definitely no room for
naps
in those days since I was constantly looking for my shoulder wondering what
antics one or more of the cats were going to play on me.  Now mind you, I'm
a
big dog now (I'm 3/4 Husky and 1/4 German Shepard) but at that time I was a
wee tyke.  Their favorite game to play with me was to lock me in the
livingroom, one cat guarding each of the two doorways that would lead to
food
or water or safety behind some table or behind the stove.  I looked forward
to
hearing those keys of her's opening the front door late in the afternoon.
We
spent weekends going to all sorts of different places -- art/street fairs
where all kinds of people would scratch me behind the ears, some kind of
show
in Golden Gate Park (the people had funny accents and would wear these
really
crazy clothes....I think it had something to do with Shakespeare but I never
knew what Shakespeare was to begin with so I just stayed confused....at
least
it was nice to lay down and take a nap under some of the trees).  The best
times were when we would walk down to Ocean Beach or China Beach underneath
the Golden Gate Bridge.  That was where everyone would gather with their
canine housemates and we would meet up and run with each other while the
humans would just stand around and talk about us.  But then she moved back
to
Minnestoa and brought me with her which is alright I suppose...the snow is
interesting, once I figured out it wasn't something that was going to attack
me (the first winter I barked and barked and barked at that stuff.....I
couldn't figure out what was falling from the sky!) and it took a little
while
to get used to running through it (it was almost like swimming because I
would
sink up to my neck in it, but it was much different moving around in it than
water).  The summers are what I don't like....that's when the sky turns into
night and then there's these horrible crashing sounds and flashes of light.
It scares me terribly, even more so than the little earthquakes from San
Francisco.  The only way I can handle these strange things is to lay down in
the bathtub, behind the shower curtain, and close my eyes.  At least they
don't seem to last very long, which is a good thing (except for the few
times
that we had to go sit in the basement with a flashlight and a radio....never
could figure that one out either).  We go on more driving trips since we
moved
here and one of my favorite places to go is to Tracy's folks (Ed and Sue)
because I get run all over their HUGE yard and explore the Back Forty.
After
that we go inside, either into the house or into the Hut.  Either one we go
into Sue's canine housemate, Max, is there, just barking and barking and
barking at me saying hello.  We got into a horrible fight once but that's
because he was trying to take food out of my bowl, but we've made up now and
we're friends (well, after he got me back by biting me on my rearend..and
that
hurt!).  Sometimes, when we go into the hut (all four of us) it's pretty
boring because all Tracy and Sue do is bend over things and then hold
colored
things up to a light, then bend over some more, then go to this thing that
makes this horrible grinding sound, then back to bending over, etc., etc.
This literally goes on for hours sometimes!   All there is for me and Max to
do is take turns curling up on different parts of the floor and wish for
them
to stop and let us outside.  For some reason Tracy must like all this
bending
over, holding up colored things and making that horrible grinding noise
because she's been doing the same thing at our place for a year now!   I'll
lay down there and watch her, just like at her folks, waiting for her to do
something different, but so far it looks like the same routine.  'Well
that's
about it from me....I think I need a nap....after all, I've been up from my
last one for about 25 minutes now and I'm exhausted.  If anyone has any
scraps
from dinner in their fridge, please e-mail them as soon as possible (she
doesn't like me to have "people food" but I won't tell if you won't tell!).



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From owner-glass Sat Sep 26 12:23:31 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Welcome to Suzanne (Tulsa) and stuff
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 13:11:08 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep26.8118.0>
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Welcome Suzanne to the Mad Hatter's Ball,

Keep this under your hat ...but I am the only one on the list that is sane
(most of the time). Don't believe a word they say about me.

Just to bring you up to date. Each Saturday I post 2 biographies of the
members which have been submitted to me previously. It is a great way to
meet the other members of the group (just be leery of anyone from across the
pond). So .... anyway please send me an informal bio and I'll post it to the
group. Today I will post the bios and you can get a flavor of what to say.

Wow, the information about the concrete seemed to go over very well. This is
an excellent place for answers to any questions about glass, life, dog
bites, lead poisoning, and all the other wonderful things in life.


Got to go

I'm  late...I'm late... for a very important date. No time to say hello ...
goodbye... I'm late, I'm late, I'm late.



Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 26 12:27:57 1998
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From: "Richard Carder" <richard.carder@btinternet.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: Lamp patterns
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:46:11 +0100
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BDE986.4FE159A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am trying to find out if there is a lamp pattern book which shows =
designs of lamps which are four sided, open at the top and attached to a =
flat base where the bulb is fitted. I have sent a message on the =
newsgroup, rec.craft.glass, with no responce at present. Hope you can =
help.

Richard Carder=20

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BDE986.4FE159A0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I am trying to find out if there is =
a lamp=20
pattern book which shows designs of lamps which are four sided, open at =
the top=20
and attached to a flat base where the bulb is fitted. I have sent a =
message on=20
the newsgroup, rec.craft.glass, with no responce at present. Hope you =
can=20
help.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Richard =
Carder&nbsp;</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BDE986.4FE159A0--

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 26 12:57:28 1998
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X-Path: iag.net!judyc
From: judy campbell <judyc@iag.net>
To: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>,glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: All clear, all ok
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 04:04:35 -0400
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References: <<1998Sep26.61516.0>>
Precedence: bulk

All okay here just some rain.  Our prayers were answered and we pray the
ones who get the storm keep safe. Back to work!



t 10:15 AM 9/26/98 -0400, leestat7 wrote:
>Hi,
>
>All OK here, the storm moved far enough into the gulf, we did not even
>get much rain.  I was all prepared with sand bags, contact film on the
>windows, brought all the plants in off of the patio, got a stash of
>hurricane food, extra prescriptions, 10 5gal bottles of distilled water
>(I get drinking water delivered anyway), and was ready to ride it out. 
>I even got a good nights sleep last night.  So I guess I'm ready if
>another one comes this way.  Now back to some glass production.  
>
>I hope all the others in Florida fared as well, the hurricane is now
>headed for the north gulf coast, wish the people up there well. 
>
>Please check in with OK's Florida bungi group???
>
>
>Lee Boe
>Rain-Boe's Creations
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>
>

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 26 14:03:44 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Romajoco
From: Romajoco@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Bio # 56 Carol Tombro
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 16:28:03 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep26.20283.0>
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In a message dated 9/26/98 1:52:24 PM Central Daylight Time, pkelly@n-link.com
writes:

<< Luckily, her taste in art glass is discriminating
 and my bins runneth over right now with "I must have that piece of
 glass",  >>
 Welcome to the group Carol.  I do believe that we all have to have that piece
of glass.  I know it is hard for me to pass it up if I fall in love with it.
Doing stained glass as always had a sootheing aspect to me. 

Margie
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 26 14:32:25 1998
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From: Romajoco@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: All clear, all ok
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 16:34:53 EDT
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In a message dated 9/26/98 2:58:14 PM Central Daylight Time, judyc@iag.net
writes:

<< Our prayers were answered and we pray the
 ones who get the storm keep safe.  >>
It would be nice if that killer hurricane would become a puzzy kat for
everyone.  Lets' all just keep praying it doesn't get as huge as it was.

Margie
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 26 14:46:20 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: visit with the cement pro
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 16:25:25 -0400
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We use Downy Fabric Softener =

as a mold release on flexible
rubber molds.  I would imagine
it'd work on a plastic mold, too.
Just a thought.... might be a =

cheaper alternative.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 26 15:07:16 1998
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From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Lamp patterns
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 21:50:03 +0100
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References: <<1998Sep26.204611.0>>
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At 19:46 26/09/98 +0100, Richard wrote:
>I am trying to find out if there is a lamp pattern book which shows =
>designs of lamps which are four sided, open at the top and attached to a =
>flat base where the bulb is fitted. I have sent a message on the =
>newsgroup, rec.craft.glass, with no responce at present. Hope you can =
>help.

We've not seen a pattern like you describe in the books we can get over
here in England, but then we can only buy what our distributors import.
But do you really need a pattern book?  It sounds like a fairly basic
shape, so shouldnt be too hard to do your own pattern.
>From what I vaguely remember from seeing one of your questions on a message
board you have actually seen the real thing on sale somewhere.
If so, why not buy one of them and then you can take measurements and (if
you really want to make an exact duplicate) copy it - or better still
design your own individual interpretation of their idea which is halfway to
doing your own thing.
EliZabeth in Bournemouth
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk

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From owner-glass Sat Sep 26 16:09:06 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: All clear, all ok
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 23:05:54 +0000
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Sure Glad to hear you (and all bunch) in Florida are OK.
We had a lot of news about this hurricane. Now it's moving over 
towards Alabama, Louisiana and that-a-way.

Where exactly is "Florida Keys"??
Please check in with your "OKs"!
request
Elisabeth 'n Toby in calm autumnal UK (who's had plenty of reasons to 
study the map of East Coast USA in the last couple of days....)



Lee Boe in Sarasota, FL wrote: 
> All OK here, the storm moved far enough into the gulf, we did not even
> get much rain.  I was all prepared with sand bags, contact film on the
> windows, brought all the plants in off of the patio, got a stash of
> hurricane food, extra prescriptions, 10 5gal bottles of distilled water
> (I get drinking water delivered anyway), and was ready to ride it out. 
> I even got a good nights sleep last night.  So I guess I'm ready if
> another one comes this way.  Now back to some glass production.  
> 
> I hope all the others in Florida fared as well, the hurricane is now
> headed for the north gulf coast, wish the people up there well. 
> 
> Please check in with OK's Florida bungi group???
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 26 20:23:49 1998
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X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy
From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>, "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: Bios Alas and Alack -  gone to the dogs
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 98 22:21:50 -0000
Message-ID: <199809270225.WAA07595@uz.ComCAT.COM>
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>Due to the lack of bios I am posting the following bio from a canine
>critter. I am desperate to keep that hound from hell off my gnomon.
>By the way it is healing nicely.

Patrick:

Tut, tut, this bio was posted last week.
You are trying once again to pull the wool over our eyes.
Elisabeth, I think it's time for you to point Toby in the direction of 
Patrick's gnomon.
It's in Texas. 
Suzanne
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 26 21:28:33 1998
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X-Path: hotmail.com!agacic
From: "Alex Gacic" <agacic@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: Florida Hurricane- YAK - Not Glass
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 16:15:30 PDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep26.231530.0>
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Hi, all

Reporting from Fort Walton Beach, Florida, we are boarding our place up, 
we just had two tornados pass to the north of us.   We are getting some 
heavy rain already.  We are hoping for the best and hope New Orleans 
gets spared,   We typically will lose power, but our phone will keep 
working since they are underground. 

Good luck to anyone else getting ready for a hit.

Alex Gacic
(cutting glass by candlelight soon)

>From: Kris <kristc@home.com>
>To: leestat7 <leestat7@home.com>
>Subject: Re: Florida Hurricane-  YAK - Not Glass
>Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 10:15:17 -0400
>
>Reporting in from Sarasota, all OK here. That sure was an anticlimax!
>Whew. We got lucky. Anyone on the panhandle, Alabama, Lousiana areas? 
It
>might get tense up there soon.
>Kris
>
>leestat7 wrote:
>> 
>> A lot of us are 'hunkered down' ready to ride out the storm, so all 
the
>> Florida bungi members check in with 'OK's when it has passed.  Good 
luck
>> and blessings to all of us.
>> 
>> Lee Boe
>> Rain-Boe's Creations
>> ----
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>



______________________________________________________
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From owner-glass Sat Sep 26 21:58:18 1998
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From: Kris <kristc@home.com>
To: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: All clear, all ok
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 23:44:46 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep26.194446.0>
References: <<199809262215.XAA32069@saturn.nildram.co.uk>>
Organization: @Home Network
Precedence: bulk

If you look at the southern tip of FL you see a string of little islands
going off to the southwest. Those are the keys, beautiful area, closest
thing to the Carribean look and feel that we have in the US.

I'm so burned out on hurricaine news I haven't turned on the TV today.
Are the folks up that-a-way getting hit? Holding good thoughts for them,
it might get pretty rough.

Kris

Toby wrote:
> 
> Sure Glad to hear you (and all bunch) in Florida are OK.
> We had a lot of news about this hurricane. Now it's moving over
> towards Alabama, Louisiana and that-a-way.
> 
> Where exactly is "Florida Keys"??
> Please check in with your "OKs"!
> request
> Elisabeth 'n Toby in calm autumnal UK (who's had plenty of reasons to
> study the map of East Coast USA in the last couple of days....)
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 27 07:43:32 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Bios Alas and Alack -  gone to the dogs
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 07:37:36 EDT
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In a message dated 9/27/98 4:24:41 AM, suzy@ComCAT.COM wrote:

>Tut, tut, this bio was posted last week.
>You are trying once again to pull the wool over our eyes.
>Elisabeth, I think it's time for you to point Toby in the direction of 
>Patrick's gnomon.
>It's in Texas. 

Awwwwww, gee whiz, cut the guy a break, he's probably sitting there this
weekend wondering if *his* house has a big sign on it reading "Hurricanes
Welcome." (Yeah, OK, Texas is a big state, but Georges is a big guy.)

Besides, he sent me the cutest little picture of a teddy-bear suncatcher to
keep me company while my sweetie was out of town this week.......


Sparks
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 27 07:52:43 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Florida Hurricane- YAK - Not Glass
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 07:37:37 EDT
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In a message dated 9/27/98 5:29:11 AM, agacic@hotmail.com wrote:

>Reporting from Fort Walton Beach, Florida, we are boarding our place up, 
>[...] We typically will lose power, [...]
>
>Alex Gacic
>(cutting glass by candlelight soon)

Hey Elisabeth 'n' Toby (I think it was you, correct me if I'm wrong), can this
poor soul borrow your old-time heat-it-up-in-the-fire soldering iron so he can
keep working through the storm? Such things *do* come in handy even in this
technological day and age, and we don't want any of our fellow bungians to end
up in the emergency room due to acute glass withdrawal!

But seriously, Alex, here's hoping you and all your fellow dwellers in
hurricane (and himmicane) country come through safely.


Sparks
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 27 08:04:13 1998
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X-Path: bigfoot.com!rst13000
From: rst13000@bigfoot.com
To: smtp.server@PM03SM.PMM.MCI.NET
Subject: INTRODUCING NON-SURGICAL LIPOSUCTION! NOW AVAILABLE IN U.S.A. !
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 22:57:10 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <1998Sep25.175710.0>
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 27 08:26:49 1998
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From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" <cpjaram@7cities.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Ethics Question
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 20:41:24 -0600
Message-ID: <1998Sep26.144124.0>
Precedence: bulk

I have steeled myself for the groups honest responses to this question.

 I was surfing on the net and I went to a page on the net.  On that page was
a stained glass piece of sunflowers.  I liked the piece, so I printed the
homepage.  Now several months later I decided to make a sunflower piece.  I
started with the printed copy of the picture from I had printed.  I then
proceeded to redraw the picture.  I removed one flower, I added one of my
own.  I rearranged, redesigned, and restructured the original. Made petals
larger, eliminated leaves, added leaves, changed lines.  At this point, I
believe almost every piece of the original has been redrawn for various
reasons.  I then slumped the center pieces of the sunflowers, adding frit,
and the forward leaves I fused.  (This was not done in the picture either.)
I still believe that my piece looks similar to the original in compostion,
but I don't think anyone could match any piece of the original pattern to
mine because I fiddled with it to suit my own interpretation.  I am strickly
a hobbiest.  I do not sell anything.  Will anyone ever know I started from
someone else's work?  Probably never.  But my question is at what point am I
using someone elses idea (which is allowed)...and at what point am I
stealing someone else's pattern (which is definitely wrong).  I haven't
finished this piece, but I am contemplating entering it in a juried show.
But I still have an uneasy feeling of its origin.  This was not a 100%
original creation of my own imagination.

I am humbly coming to the group because the original was probably the work
of a professional who makes their living do original glasswork and I am not
without conscience.  I would think all of you would have strong opinions of
when you would feel angered, damaged, or hurt by someone for not paying for
your personal design.  But at the same time, we all use ideas from
everywhere.  We all study the pattern designs of others and utilize
techniques in our own work.  Where do we draw the line?

thanks cj

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 27 08:59:16 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Bio# 57 Suzanne (Tulsa)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 10:29:54 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep27.52954.0>
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Thanks for the welcome.  I must say I am glad I found the bungi group.
Great information and very talented,experienced people abound.  I
appreciate the opportunity to learn from you all.

I am a social worker by education and work experience.  My last *real*
job was a caseworker for an emergency homeless shelter. I quit the week
before my sons birth and have been home with him since. I was a
probation officer for a short time right out of college. There was a lot
I didn't like about it.

I spent my childhood years in Atlanta Georgia, teens, college and early
adulthood in California...from Thousand Oaks, Fresno, Gilroy,
Jackson, Sutter Creek area (near Placerville), spent alot of time
backpacking and exploring all over the Sierra's, then was widowed at 26. 

Spent my late 20's in Seattle Wa,   I lived with a musician for 5 yrs or
so there (during the widow crazies), suddenly found myself a mom....and
the missing *Suzanne* woke up!!! Amazing how giving birth can do that!
So.... I left the musician and came to Tulsa Oklahoma in 1990.  All my
family had gravitated to Oklahoma.  Just sort of started my life all
over again.  Again.

Probably my greatest gift is being adaptable.  Good thing. 

I managed to support myself and stay home with my daughter by taking
care of a spastic quadriplegic child in my home.  It was great
experience for my daughter as she was exposed for those years to many
children that were *different* than she, so she doesn't see them as being
so different.  That is important in my mind.

I met my current husband in 1994, married in 95, had a baby boy in 96!
So, here we are almost current!

I have hauled and stored my stained glass tools and supplies all along
the way (the last 14 yrs) always hoping to manage to find a spot to do
some glass again.

Well...it is finally here.  I couldn't just work at the kitchen table and
leave it all out and all over the place once I had a child...and until
now didn't have a spot that I could work with glass...*and* keep my kids
away from it.

We bought our new house in July.  It came with a sunroom...that I
finally convinced my husband should be *my* studio.  It is off limits to
my son, but my daughter is allowed in with certain rules. ;o)

I could just pop.  It is almost like being 24 again! I lose all track of
time when I am working on a project.  Meals have changed...I don't spend
nearly the time cooking now a days.  Pretty traditional household
here...mom does all the cooking.  So...you want supper?  How about a
hotdog? <jk>

I have been cutting like a mad woman, and am thoroughly enjoying
watching my cutting skills come back to me and improve by the hour.
I have stepping stones now in the works...glass is all ready for 3, and
have several others waiting for me.  Will let you know how they turn
out.  Hope this wasn't toooooo long ;o) imagine all I left out!

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 27 09:27:47 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Suzanne (Tulsa) the Saviour
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 10:40:53 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep27.54053.0>
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Just posted Suzanne(Tulsa) bio. I am now safe for another week.

If Suzanne can get up a bio in this short a period of time .... how about
the rest of you lurkers. We have posted about 57 bios and I understand that
there are hundreds of members. Where are you?

Everyone is interesting. Please introduce yourselves. Send me your bio. If
you have sent it and I haven't posted it please send it again.

Seriously, some of the members really look forward to learning about the
other members.

As the Nike slogan says "Just do it" (send the bios). Or if you are just
doing it, wait until you are finished and send the bio. It would be tacky to
interrupt and tell your partner you have to send a bio to Patrick.

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 27 09:42:55 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Patterns
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 10:43:19 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep27.54319.0>
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In the past few weeks I have sent members patterns that they have requested.
I haven't heard if they have received them. Please let me know if you did.
We might be having trouble with the snail mail.


Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 27 09:55:59 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Ethics Question
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 10:58:06 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep27.5586.0>
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We are now in the twilight time of worldwide communications and copyright
infringement. Legalize has not caught up with technology (most probably
because law makers don't understand it).

IMHO if you feel a little guilty you might say something to the effect "
Suggested by "Sunflowers in Bloom (the name of the piece if you know it or
the artist"

Nature is the originator of sunflowers. You are interpreting nature through
your eyes. Just because you get an idea from someone else's work doesn't
make you a bad person. For example, have you ever seen an oil paint artist
copying a masterpiece. There are just so many Monets, Van Goughs, Frank
Lloyd Wrights, born.


Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

PS Enjoy the journey .... too soon it is over.

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 27 10:33:40 1998
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From: HiimLaura@aol.com
To: cpjaram@7cities.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Ethics Question
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 12:30:22 EDT
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Hi there! Here is my (humble?) opinion on your query:

This is a hard one. I look at it this way:
If you FEEL that you are doing something "wrong", then don't do it. 
If you are entering a juied show which calls for original work, you have to
define what  "ORIGINAL" means. To me, original means something that I created
from zero - totally my idea, etc. In much of my own work I can see INFLUENCES
from various eras of design or even from clasical artists that I study in
college, but I began my designs by sitting down with only a pencil and a blank
sheet of paper.

I'd say it comes down to your gut instinct...
By the way you described all the different ways that you altered someone
else's original design, it seems that you are not really "copying" someone
else's work, but altering someone else's work. But is it original? No, it is a
pattern/design that was created by an artist that you have altered. Therefore,
I would say that it is not your original work.
Legally, you are probably fine. I have heard that once you change/alter a
design
it is not "copying", that once you change it, it is "new". But seriously,
let's say you designed a floral panel - all on your own, your original work,
and then went to a show and saw a panel that looked curiously like yours...
changed around a little, but obviously yours...would it disturb you? It
probably would! You would know that it was your style, your original design
that was altered. And someone else was calling it their own original
design...after all the hard work you put into it. ......just something to
think about...

Or how about thinking of it this way:
We are all obviously influenced by designs that we see everywhere, whether
they are ancient, classical designs, or a work by a famous artist. You admired
the design that you found. You liked the lines or the style, or the movement
(or lack thereof!) and you printed out the design. Now to use the design, and
alter it, well I would say that it is definately not your design. I could make
a painting of The Mona Lisa and totally change the hair, facial features,
backround, etc., but it is not my original idea. Now remember, this is only my
humble opinion. 
I'm sure you will make the right decision. Good luck!

Laura

P.S. - What you have created might be titled something like,  "Study of floral
panel by Joe so-and-so"  ?
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 27 10:56:52 1998
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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re: Ethics Question
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 09:33:07 -0700
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>I have steeled myself for the groups honest responses to this question.
>
> I was surfing on the net and I went to a page on the net.  On that page was
>a stained glass piece of sunflowers.  I liked the piece, so I printed the
>homepage.  Now several months later I decided to make a sunflower piece.  I
>started with the printed copy of the picture from I had printed.  I then
>proceeded to redraw the picture.  I removed one flower, I added one of my
>own.  I rearranged, redesigned, and restructured the original. Made petals
>larger, eliminated leaves, added leaves, changed lines.  At this point, I
>believe almost every piece of the original has been redrawn for various
>reasons.  I then slumped the center pieces of the sunflowers, adding frit,
>and the forward leaves I fused.  (This was not done in the picture either.)
>I still believe that my piece looks similar to the original in compostion,
>but I don't think anyone could match any piece of the original pattern to
>mine because I fiddled with it to suit my own interpretation.  I am strickly
>a hobbiest.  I do not sell anything.  Will anyone ever know I started from
>someone else's work?  Probably never.  But my question is at what point am I
>using someone elses idea (which is allowed)...and at what point am I
>stealing someone else's pattern (which is definitely wrong).  I haven't
>finished this piece, but I am contemplating entering it in a juried show.
>But I still have an uneasy feeling of its origin.  This was not a 100%
>original creation of my own imagination.
>
>I am humbly coming to the group because the original was probably the work
>of a professional who makes their living do original glasswork and I am not
>without conscience.  I would think all of you would have strong opinions of
>when you would feel angered, damaged, or hurt by someone for not paying for
>your personal design.  But at the same time, we all use ideas from
>everywhere.  We all study the pattern designs of others and utilize
>techniques in our own work.  Where do we draw the line?
>
>thanks cj

Hi cj

I imagine this will draw all sorts of comments from the group...I don't see
a problem with what you've done...with all the changes you've described, you
could just as easily have started with a photograph of sunflowers.  Plus
you've incorporated additional an additional medium of fusing/slumping.  

On the other hand, if you'd copied the pattern and cut lines, then just
changed a color selection and moved a leaf, in my opinion that would be
plagiarism and unethical.

As an artist, I draw on what I see in nature, as well as in books,
photographs, etc. for inspiration.  In fact I keep files on some of the
subjects I create often or want realism in, as well as several coffee table
style books on birds (I do a lot of birds for people who want "their" wild
bird in glass...resident pheasants, wood ducks, etc).  This helps provide
details on coloration, attitude, environment.

I believe that if I start with a photograph, drawing, fabric design, etc.
and then infuse it with my own unique interpretation and creativity (as you
did with the sunflowers, redrawing, changing elements, adding new
techniques), then I am making my own design, using the photo or whatever as
a source of inspiration only.  

In response to where do we cross the line?  I think that's a matter of
individual interpretation and I'm sure it will generate a lively bungi
discussion.  For myself, I use my gut feeling and sense of honor as a guide...


Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 27 12:08:40 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: Ethics Question
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Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 14:19:08 +0000
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> We are now in the twilight time of worldwide communications and copyright
> infringement. Legalize has not caught up with technology (most probably
> because law makers don't understand it).

Not really. One of the "Ten Big Myths" about copyright is

6) "If I make up my own stories, but base them on another work, my new
work belongs to me." 
                     False. Copyright law is quite explicit that the
                     making of what are called "derivative works" --
                     works based or derived from another copyrighted
                     work -- is the exclusive province of the owner of
                     the original work. This is true even though the
                     making of these new works is a highly creative
                     process. If you write a story using settings or
                     characters from somebody else's work, you need
                     that author's permission.

See http://www.templetons.com/brad//copymyths.html

Also of interest is http://www.wemsi.on.ca/netlaw.html

Which should get you started. <s>

Albert
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 27 12:27:35 1998
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From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: INTRODUCING NON-SURGICAL LIPOSUCTION! NOW AVAILABLE IN 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 13:55:14 -0400
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Liposuction????

Hey!  Let's not get personal here!

;)
Jerri

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 27 12:40:52 1998
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From: "Daniel" <doverbay@csi.com>
To: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>, "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Patterns (praying hands)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 11:26:01 -0700
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>In the past few weeks I have sent members patterns that they have
requested.
>I haven't heard if they have received them. Please let me know if you did.
>We might be having trouble with the snail mail.
>


Someone was looking for a pattern for praying hands...well it they still
need it..
I found one...

Daniel



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From owner-glass Sun Sep 27 13:12:48 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: Welcome to Suzanne (Tulsa) and stuff
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Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 20:13:21 +0000
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Funny that!....
I had a feeling that there was a tremendeous enterprising and daring 
spirit in this Suzanne from Tulsa.
How wonderful to have been proven Right!! 
Well done Suzanne in Tulsa!!
I also have a feeling that you will have brought a fresh gust of 
"daring" into the life of many other people. All to prove that there 
is no such word as "impossible".
 To me you brought a huge smile. 
I must have spent 2-3 days scouring my own Bungi records on a 
"hunch". What a treat to read your "progress report"!
....and keep those burly concrete chaps sweet, smiling and 
co-operative!!!
Do keep me/us posted on your progress!!
Yes.... I agree.... dump your lamp and start afresh.
Hope to meet you one day.... who knows....

Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Patrick Kelly wrote:
> Welcome Suzanne to the Mad Hatter's Ball,
> 
> Keep this under your hat ...but I am the only one on the list that is sane
> (most of the time). Don't believe a word they say about me.
> 
> Just to bring you up to date. Each Saturday I post 2 biographies of the
> members which have been submitted to me previously. It is a great way to
> meet the other members of the group (just be leery of anyone from across the
> pond). So .... anyway please send me an informal bio and I'll post it to the
> group. Today I will post the bios and you can get a flavor of what to say.
> 
> Wow, the information about the concrete seemed to go over very well. This is
> an excellent place for answers to any questions about glass, life, dog
> bites, lead poisoning, and all the other wonderful things in life.
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 27 13:37:20 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: Bios Alas and Alack -  gone to the dogs
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T O B Y !!!!!

HERE!!!
Have a sniff at this! It's the left-overs of  some funny white 
wrappings, buckles and leather straps you spat out last week!
Go Find!
Bring back dinner!!! Go get  G..N..O..M..O..N!!
Elisabeth in UK (Toby left posthaste!!)


> In a message dated 9/27/98 4:24:41 AM, suzy@ComCAT.COM wrote:
> 
> >Tut, tut, this bio was posted last week.
> >You are trying once again to pull the wool over our eyes.
> >Elisabeth, I think it's time for you to point Toby in the direction of 
> >Patrick's gnomon.
> >It's in Texas. 
Sparks replied: 
> Awwwwww, gee whiz, cut the guy a break, he's probably sitting there this
> weekend wondering if *his* house has a big sign on it reading .....>snip<
   "Patrick & gnomon lives here".... ??
----
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North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 27 13:44:38 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Norman & Claudette Jaramillo <cpjaram@7cities.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Ethics Question
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 15:45:21 -0400
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Norman & Claudette Jaramillo wrote:
> 
> I have steeled myself for the groups honest responses to this question.
> 
>  I was surfing on the net and I went to a page on the net.  On that page was
> a stained glass piece of sunflowers.  I liked the piece, so I printed the
> homepage.  Now several months later I decided to make a sunflower piece.  I
> started with the printed copy of the picture from I had printed.  I then
> proceeded to redraw the picture.  I removed one flower, I added one of my
> own.  I rearranged, redesigned, and restructured the original. Made petals
> larger, eliminated leaves, added leaves, changed lines.  At this point, I
> believe almost every piece of the original has been redrawn for various
> reasons.  I then slumped the center pieces of the sunflowers, adding frit,
> and the forward leaves I fused.  (This was not done in the picture either.)
> I still believe that my piece looks similar to the original in compostion,
> but I don't think anyone could match any piece of the original pattern to
> mine because I fiddled with it to suit my own interpretation.  I am strickly
> a hobbiest.  I do not sell anything.  Will anyone ever know I started from
> someone else's work?  Probably never.  But my question is at what point am I
> using someone elses idea (which is allowed)...and at what point am I
> stealing someone else's pattern (which is definitely wrong).  I haven't
> finished this piece, but I am contemplating entering it in a juried show.
> But I still have an uneasy feeling of its origin.  This was not a 100%
> original creation of my own imagination.
> 
> I am humbly coming to the group because the original was probably the work
> of a professional who makes their living do original glasswork and I am not
> without conscience.  I would think all of you would have strong opinions of
> when you would feel angered, damaged, or hurt by someone for not paying for
> your personal design.  But at the same time, we all use ideas from
> everywhere.  We all study the pattern designs of others and utilize
> techniques in our own work.  Where do we draw the line?
> 
> thanks cj
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


if you re-designed it, it's yours. it may not have been your idea, or
inspiration, but it is yours.

it's not your design when:
- you make the dedign using your own colors.
- simply put a new background into it. 
- or change a piece on it. 

like for example take the white pandora's box on my project page. it's
an original design. if you took it, made it yourself using your colors,
it can't be counted as yours. if you used that box as a model for
another box, entirely diffferent but the same it could be counted as
yours. but not your original shape idea...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 27 14:12:47 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Good Heavens, Sparks,

You STILL remember that one!!?  ... :->
Sure, any time....!! But I need it back!! If it's heated up by a real 
hot coal-fire, you won't need a candle to see by.
Joke aside, makes you think just HOW much we take things like 
electricity for granted.
It gives me an idea of perhaps setting up an Early Victorian workshop 
(for my advanced students) during which the use of electricity (and 
no CHEATING with gas and/or  battery-powered implements allowed!!) is 
banned. Could be quite fun! It would certainly make them inventive. 
College probably would  take a dim view of this though.... 
fire-hazards and all that.
Hhhmmm.....

As regards my own thoughts on folks about to encounter Georges, 
repeat again my best wishes......
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

> 
> >Reporting from Fort Walton Beach, Florida, we are boarding our place up, 
> >[...] We typically will lose power, [...]
> >
> >Alex Gacic
> >(cutting glass by candlelight soon)

Sparks replied:
> Hey Elisabeth 'n' Toby (I think it was you, correct me if I'm wrong), can this
> poor soul borrow your old-time heat-it-up-in-the-fire soldering iron so he can
> keep working through the storm? Such things *do* come in handy even in this
> technological day and age, and we don't want any of our fellow bungians to end
> up in the emergency room due to acute glass withdrawal!
> 
> But seriously, Alex, here's hoping you and all your fellow dwellers in
> hurricane (and himmicane) country come through safely.
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 27 14:38:04 1998
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> From:          rst13000@bigfoot.com
> To:            smtp.server@PM03SM.PMM.MCI.NET
> Subject:       INTRODUCING NON-SURGICAL LIPOSUCTION! NOW AVAILABLE IN U.S.A. !
> Date:          Fri, 25 Sep 1998 22:57:10 -0500 (EST)

Hi all,

I won't bore anyone by repeating the text......
Just wondering how it got past.  ??
Well,  it brought a smile on a wet, drizzly and dark Sunday afternoon 
in merry UK. 

Also wondering how the folks in Alabama and Louisiana are bearing 
up... Anyone in the Group  living there??
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 27 14:44:58 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: .......the Saviour
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Hi Gang,

....for ONCE, I actually agree with Patrick, the bloke from 
"Blarney-Land"....
You just cannot imagine how wonderful it is to learn how individuals 
have "arrived at" the stained glass passion, whether as a learner,, 
hobbiest, semi-pro or fully fledged pro.  It is a true word spoken, 
whoever it was that said that each and everyone of us humans have a 
best-seller unwritten novel to tell, however boring it might appear 
to you yourself. This is how life-long friendships are forged. This 
is how I myself have made friends for life with people 1000's & 
1000's and thousands of miles away; how  mountains were moved for us 
to get face to face, be together, play together, work together for a 
short period of time. What does it matter that I tell you who I am, 
that I am a Viking  finding it so difficult to bear extreme heat that 
I would rather do my soldering at night in my garden in the buff.....
We have all had a good laugh, it's all been great fun. Should you 
ever meet me face to face, you would probably be quite surprised to 
find that I am actually quite shy.
First night in front of a brand new class I have terrible 
stage-fright, even now - after all these years.

There is a wonderful fountain of absolutely fascinating personalities 
in this Group called Bungi.... I believe the number is now close to 
about 700 (Glenna???????) These people are people like YOU!
Allow the rest of us to get to know you, your "quirks, strengths & 
weaknesses. Please start to allow us to get to know you by sending a 
Bio to Patrick. In his "sane" moments he can be quite accommodating 
and sensitive (don't tell him I said that!!). I have been quite 
astonished by a number of Bios of people I sort of pictured in my 
mind's eye differently. 
Don't think you are "boring", 'cause you ain't. How COULD you be if 
you are working with stained glass!!!!
Do - please - allow us to get to know you better. You are quite 
safe!!!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Patrick wrote:
> Just posted Suzanne(Tulsa) bio. I am now safe for another week.
> 
> If Suzanne can get up a bio in this short a period of time .... how about
> the rest of you lurkers. We have posted about 57 bios and I understand that
> there are hundreds of members. Where are you?
> 
> Everyone is interesting. Please introduce yourselves. Send me your bio. If
> you have sent it and I haven't posted it please send it again.
> 
> Seriously, some of the members really look forward to learning about the
> other members.
> 
> As the Nike slogan says "Just do it" (send the bios). Or if you are just
> doing it, wait until you are finished and send the bio. It would be tacky to
> interrupt and tell your partner you have to send a bio to Patrick.
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 27 14:55:43 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Front surface mirror
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 16:24:59 -0400
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Message text written by INTERNET:tuka@bc.sympatico.ca
>4              Does anybody know any "glass gods" to say a prayer to
                before I try cutting  this stuff?<

How about Pele - Hawaiian godess of volcanos and (my own interpolation) h=
ot
glass?

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 27 15:50:07 1998
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X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly
From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>, <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: Bios Alas and Alack -  gone to the dogs
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 16:53:12 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep27.115312.0>
Precedence: bulk

I think I smell a wet mop or something that looks  like one coming up the
drive. Please help the only thing that placates this Boris Vallejo beast
from the underworld is Bios.

Help! Help! Help! Bios, Bios, Bios.

-----Original Message-----
From: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Sunday, September 27, 1998 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: Bios Alas and Alack - gone to the dogs


>T O B Y !!!!!
>
>HERE!!!
>Have a sniff at this! It's the left-overs of  some funny white
>wrappings, buckles and leather straps you spat out last week!
>Go Find!
>Bring back dinner!!! Go get  G..N..O..M..O..N!!
>Elisabeth in UK (Toby left posthaste!!)
>
>
>> In a message dated 9/27/98 4:24:41 AM, suzy@ComCAT.COM wrote:
>>
>> >Tut, tut, this bio was posted last week.
>> >You are trying once again to pull the wool over our eyes.
>> >Elisabeth, I think it's time for you to point Toby in the direction of
>> >Patrick's gnomon.
>> >It's in Texas.
>Sparks replied:
>> Awwwwww, gee whiz, cut the guy a break, he's probably sitting there this
>> weekend wondering if *his* house has a big sign on it reading .....>snip<
>   "Patrick & gnomon lives here".... ??
>----
>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
>----
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 27 16:21:54 1998
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From: Family Account <shad@mail2.nai.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: First project done....hmmmmmm.....some observations....sigh.
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 18:19:29 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep27.141929.0>
References: <<199809242145.OAA09321@ns2.vphos.net>>
Precedence: bulk



Cindy Pesonen wrote:

> <snip>
> With me it's the pokey corners (of a foiled piece of glass before
> burnishing),that jab me like sharp needles, on already very sore hands.

You know, I have some interesting callouses on my hands, and although there are
often nicks and marks on my fingertips, my hands are rarely really sore.  And I
don't do glass every day.

Dorothy K

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 27 17:27:37 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!HiimLaura
From: HiimLaura@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Front surface mirror
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 19:16:30 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep27.231630.0>
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Hi all!

The patron saint of glass workers is St. Luke...and so just so I don't get any
of those bashing emails telling me that I'm wrong (you know who you are) check
it out at!:

 <A HREF="http://www.catholic.org/saints/stsindex.html">Catholic Online Saints
Index</A>

Laura 
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 27 17:58:55 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1
From: eldondo1@juno.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Mark McGwire
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 19:07:59 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep27.14759.0>
Precedence: bulk

Please forgive the (off glass) of course i'm not the only one,Ha!! But 70
home runs in one season,I never thought I would live to see it, and I was
around when Babe Ruth hit 60...I love it. I hope the cricket and futsball
players will understand. Thanks for allowing me to speak my excited
piece............ 
Don <eldondo1@juno.com>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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From owner-glass Sun Sep 27 19:00:40 1998
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X-Path: erols.com!nadinesfolly
From: Nadine Beth Schneider <nadinesfolly@erols.com>
To: HiimLaura@aol.com, Glass Enthusiasts <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
Subject: St Luke
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 21:14:27 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep27.171427.0>
References: <<1998Sep27.231630.0>>
Organization: Custom Art Glass Studio
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------FF3922C167CCE7805B269FD8
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Laura!
I went to that website and checked out St. Luke, but
I didn't find glass.  What did I miss?
                                  Nadine

HiimLaura@aol.com wrote:

> Hi all!
>
> The patron saint of glass workers is St. Luke...and so just so I don't get any
> of those bashing emails telling me that I'm wrong (you know who you are) check
> it out at!:
>
>  <A HREF="http://www.catholic.org/saints/stsindex.html">Catholic Online Saints
> Index</A>
>
> Laura
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

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begin:vcard
n:Schneider;Nadine Beth
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
org:Nadine's Folly Art Glass Studio
version:2.1
email;internet:nadinesfolly@erols.com
title:www.nadinesfolly.com
x-mozilla-cpt:;0
fn:Nadine Beth Schneider
end:vcard


--------------FF3922C167CCE7805B269FD8--

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 27 21:04:51 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" <cpjaram@7cities.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Ethics Question
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 23:12:18 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep27.191218.0>
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Hi Claudette-

Most of the time, we answer =

our own questions... and you =

did when you said you had
an uneasy feeling about using
the sunflower in  a juried show.
No matter how you try to justify
it, you don't really feel the piece
is original.  So there you have
it.  But, there's nothing stopping =

you from doing another sunflower
design all your own with all that
"First Flower" experience under
your belt... right?! ;-)

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Sun Sep 27 22:08:09 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Welcome to Suzanne (Tulsa) and stuff
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 23:13:51 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep27.181351.0>
References: <<199809271919.UAA24032@saturn.nildram.co.uk>>
Precedence: bulk

> Funny that!....
> I had a feeling that there was a tremendeous enterprising and daring 
> spirit in this Suzanne from Tulsa.
> How wonderful to have been proven Right!! 
> Well done Suzanne in Tulsa!!
> I also have a feeling that you will have brought a fresh gust of 
> "daring" into the life of many other people. All to prove that there 
> is no such word as "impossible".
>  To me you brought a huge smile. 
> I must have spent 2-3 days scouring my own Bungi records on a 
> "hunch". What a treat to read your "progress report"!
> ....and keep those burly concrete chaps sweet, smiling and 
> co-operative!!!
> Do keep me/us posted on your progress!!
> Yes.... I agree.... dump your lamp and start afresh.
> Hope to meet you one day.... who knows....
> 
> Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
> 
> Patrick Kelly wrote:

What nice things you say.  

As for my progress...it is coming daily.  Yesterday, I think my husband
was perturbed at having no clean socks....(poor dear), (I keep telling
him to get a pair of Birkenstocks).  *Every* time I made a move towards
*my* door, he would come up with something *else* *we* needed to do.  

Today, however, I spent a good solid 8 hours!!  Yeeha!!  *Someone*
mentioned dinner and bedtimes and tomorrow being a school day and
perhaps I should start finding a stopping point.  (breaking into
maniacal laughter here)

I did go to home depot (who had told me over the phone that they carry
*white* portland cement) only to find, they only carry it on their
computer.  Major irritation.  I had my heart set on my first pour
today...all that glass just waiting for their baptism into concrete.

Already, I am wanting badly for a light table, once again.

I dont see myself getting to the UK any time soon, but if you ever get
to Tulsa, Ok, you are welcome in my home.  I have room.  Bo the dog says
bring Toby.

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 00:26:20 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: beginning, intermediate, advanced
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 01:13:58 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep27.201358.0>
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For those of you who teach,
How do you determine someones level of cutting skill?

Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 04:34:19 1998
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: glass bungi line <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Bio # 56 Carol Tombro
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 06:40:20 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep28.24020.0>
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Carol, Nice bio,

How far down the coast are you? I live in Suffolk, Virginia but often drive 
an hour to visit Designs in Glass on route 168, the major route to nags 
Head. The owner, Michelle is very artsy and has several customers she ships 
to. Maybe you are one of them. If not, you should check her out if you get 
up that way. Not a business partner of hers or anything; I just want to see 
her stay in business so I drum up what I can. Sorry this is to the group 
but I didn't see an address for Carol.

Linda Campbell
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 07:53:01 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!HiimLaura
From: HiimLaura@aol.com
To: nadinesfolly@erols.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: St Luke
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:44:19 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep28.134419.0>
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Hi!

You need to click on "Patron Saints", and then scroll down. Here's the link
again if anyone wants it:

 <A HREF="http://www.catholic.org/saints/stsindex.html">Catholic Online Saints
Index</A> 

the Main page url is:    http://www.catholic.org/saints/stsindex.html

the Patron Saint  page is:    http://www.catholic.org/saints/patron.html


Laura
 
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 08:11:52 1998
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: concrete links
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 07:48:44 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep28.34844.0>
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I tried these out. Great info but I found that my browser must be set to 
accept cookies in order to get to the on-line Catalogs. DP had just updated 
my Netscape and had changed the setting, it seems.

Linda

http://www.decorativeconcrete.com/

http://www.nunnikhoven.com/


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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 08:29:01 1998
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Front surface mirror
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:48:19 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep28.54819.0>
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Hi, if you are going to be cutting from a WHOLE sheet of front surface 
mirror, I can't recommend enough that you get the Kaleidoscope series I 
video (there is only one so far) by Don Doak, master kaleidoscope artist. 
You can get the video from Delphi and other places. It is worth every 
penny. This guy starts out kind of slow and describes his own home made 
tools and how he uses them to cut and design with front surface mirror. The 
whole video in on front surface mirror but his tips apply to other glass as 
well. I hope he puts out more videos. Reminds me, I need to watch my video 
again to refresh my memory.

Linda Campbell
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 08:31:42 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: beginning, intermediate, advanced
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:53:42 +0000
Message-ID: <199809281100.MAA12995@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

> From:          Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
> To:            glass@bungi.com
> Subject:       beginning, intermediate, advanced
> Date:          Mon, 28 Sep 1998 01:13:58 -0500

> For those of you who teach,
> How do you determine someones level of cutting skill?
> 

.......When the cutter jumps automatically into the hands in an 
upright position as opposed to pencil fashion;
....when the pain between index- and longfinger is no longer felt;
...when the score mark no longer looks as if the farmer has been 
using his plough for turning the soil;
.....when  the student no longer needs reminding how to cut a circle 
free-hand;
....when the student is confident about using at least 2 ways of 
getting out a deep inverted curve;
 .......when there are no longer jagged edges on the piece. 
That's when I call the student "Intermediate"
 Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 08:47:22 1998
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Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:53:42 +0000
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> From:          Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
> To:            glass@bungi.com
> Subject:       beginning, intermediate, advanced
> Date:          Mon, 28 Sep 1998 01:13:58 -0500

> For those of you who teach,
> How do you determine someones level of cutting skill?
> 

.......When the cutter jumps automatically into the hands in an 
upright position as opposed to pencil fashion;
....when the pain between index- and longfinger is no longer felt;
...when the score mark no longer looks as if the farmer has been 
using his plough for turning the soil;
.....when  the student no longer needs reminding how to cut a circle 
free-hand;
....when the student is confident about using at least 2 ways of 
getting out a deep inverted curve;
 .......when there are no longer jagged edges on the piece. 
That's when I call the student "Intermediate"
 Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 08:54:07 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Light table
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:53:42 +0000
Message-ID: <199809281059.LAA12964@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Well,.... actually Suzanne in Tulsa,

that was precisely what I was going to suggest....!
All you need is a couple of old floor, boards, a sheet of metal,4-6 
fluorescent tubes, clips to fix them with onto the metal sheet and a 
sheet of opaque perspex and some screws.
That's what my own lightbox consists of! ...Oh, and a fetching little 
brass handle to carry it around...
 I just have to be careful to 
remember to jump over the hole in the floor when I go past ;->
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
> 
> there ya go, giving me ideas on how to build a money saving light table!
> ;o)  
> 
> You have such a beautiful way with words.  I always look forward to
> reading your posts.  If your classes were nearby to me, I would sign up
> in a snap.
> 
> Suzanne
> -- 
> ~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
> 
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 09:24:20 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: cookies
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:04:37 +0000
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> I tried these out. Great info but I found that my browser must be set to 
> accept cookies in order to get to the on-line Catalogs. DP had just updated 
> my Netscape and had changed the setting, it seems.

I don't know if you're complaining about cookies, Linda, or whether 
you're asking how to set your browser to accept them, but allow me to 
offer a tirade about why you *should accept cookies. <s>

You know how it is when you go into a shop you've visited before and 
they greet you by name and have an idea what you've looked at and 
have been interested in when you visited them before? They say, 
"Welcome back, Linda. We've gotten in a new shipment of the glass you 
were interested in last time but couldn't find what you wanted."

You feel "taken care of" and "cared about."

That's what cookies are for. They make your life easier. A 
browser stores information about what you did on a particular web 
site and does that storing on *your computer so that the next time 
you go back to that web site, there's an indication of what you did 
and what you were interested in. Cookies don't store your email 
address, your social security number, your credit card number or any 
other vital statistics ... and most of them self-erase after a 
certain period of time.

Personally, I set my browser to accept all cookies. On Netscape 
(which I recommend and which is used by 60% of those who visit our 
site), click on Edit, pick Preferences, select Advanced, and then 
Accept All Cookies. Then click on Okay. It's that simple. Enjoy!

Albert


Albert Lewis, Executive Director
International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc.
A 501(c)(6) not-for-profit association
54 Cherry St., PO Box 1809, North Adams MA 01247-1809
(413) 663-5512  Fax: (413) 663-7167
_____________________________________________
Home page     http://www.igga.org/
Membership    http://www.igga.org/benefits.htm
Members' work http://igga.org/links.htm
Sources Guide http://www.igga.org/guide.htm
Guild Library http://www.aiap.com/amazon/



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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 09:53:16 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  Re: Bios Alas and Alack -  gone to the dogs
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:33:28 EDT
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In a message dated 9/27/98 9:38:08 PM, toby@northlights.co.uk wrote:

>Bring back dinner!!! Go get  G..N..O..M..O..N!!
>Elisabeth in UK (Toby left posthaste!!)

I dunno....... I think Patrick is a bit old and tough to make into the
customary "juniper-smoked boy steaks".......


Sparks
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 10:18:46 1998
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  Re: Florida Hurricane- YAK - Not Glass
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:33:29 EDT
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In a message dated 9/27/98 10:13:48 PM, toby@northlights.co.uk wrote:

>You STILL remember that one!!?  ... :->

Actually, I only heard about it second-hand. It came up the other day while I
was working at Christie's.

>It gives me an idea of perhaps setting up an Early Victorian workshop 
>(for my advanced students) [...]
>College probably would  take a dim view of this though.... 
>fire-hazards and all that.

Hey, why not? It can't be any worse than a glassblowing furnace, and lots of
colleges have those. When I was at Carnegie-Mellon U. 20-odd years ago, there
was a glassblowing shop in the basement of the chemistry/chem.engineering
building. You'd come out of the elevator and the door to the glass shop was
just to the left. It was always open. If it was too early in the morning,
you'd think you'd gone down too far and been let out at the gates of hell.


Sparks
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 10:30:46 1998
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X-Path: socent.org!atf
From: "K. See" <atf@socent.org>
To: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: beginning, intermediate, advanced
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:19:02 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep28.8192.0>
References: <<199809281100.MAA12995@saturn.nildram.co.uk>>
Organization: SOC Enterprises
Precedence: bulk

I loved this! I now know where I am and can't wait to ask the question
about when to determine advanced. I'm sure Suzanne will agree.

Toby wrote:

> > From:          Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
> > To:            glass@bungi.com
> > Subject:       beginning, intermediate, advanced
> > Date:          Mon, 28 Sep 1998 01:13:58 -0500
>
> > For those of you who teach,
> > How do you determine someones level of cutting skill?
> >
>
> .......When the cutter jumps automatically into the hands in an
> upright position as opposed to pencil fashion;
> ....when the pain between index- and longfinger is no longer felt;
> ...when the score mark no longer looks as if the farmer has been
> using his plough for turning the soil;
> .....when  the student no longer needs reminding how to cut a circle
> free-hand;
> ....when the student is confident about using at least 2 ways of
> getting out a deep inverted curve;
>  .......when there are no longer jagged edges on the piece.
> That's when I call the student "Intermediate"
>  Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
> ----
> As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> ----
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 11:01:27 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: beginning, intermediate, advanced
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:37:17 +0000
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Advanced???
When they are BETTER than me!!!
I'm still learning! Probably always will!   :->
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

> I loved this! I now know where I am and can't wait to ask the question
> about when to determine advanced. I'm sure Suzanne will agree.
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 11:02:53 1998
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: cookies
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:56:27 -0400
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Thankyou albert,

I did just that. My old version was set up that way. I just couldn't 
understand why my dp changed it. I found it interesting that the site 
carried me to a different location when I was not set up to accept cookies 
and I couldn't get what I wanted. I believe that sopmeone else said that 
they couldn't get to the on-line catalog and I figured that might be the 
reason so I thought I'd share. Thanks for being not only our resident glass 
pro but also our computer guru.   :)
Linda


Albert said:

You feel "taken care of" and "cared about."

Personally, I set my browser to accept all cookies. On Netscape
(which I recommend and which is used by 60% of those who visit our
site), click on Edit, pick Preferences, select Advanced, and then
Accept All Cookies. Then click on Okay. It's that simple. Enjoy!

Albert


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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 11:31:00 1998
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From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: Ethics Question
Date: Mon Sep 28 09:52:51 1998
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.72851.0>
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In this day and age of Clintonian law it is nice to see that some people
still have morals.

You need to ask yourself : Is this a duplicate of another work or my own
variation on the theme. 
An art teacher I know performs the following exercise with her advanced
students. She shows her class a painting; sometimes a classic by a well
known artist, sometimes an original by an unknown. The assignment is to
reinterpret it. Ninety percent of the time she gets a "copy" of the
original. The other ten percent she gets a true variation.   The example
she gave me was that she showed a painting of a spring picnic in a
field. She got lot's of various picnics and one winter scene in the same
field. While the field, buildings, tree placements and perspective were
the same the painting was an original.

To phrase the question a little differently: If you looked at a
sunflower in the wild, would you have come up with this piece?

As to the questions of derivative works it is more gray than black and
white. Rather than a long legal brief, ask yourself how many stories
have been written about Arthur, Merlin and the Knights of the Round
Table. Compare Tolkien's Lord of the Rings to the  Elf Stones of
Shanarra. Same plot, very similar characters and story line but not the
same story according to the publishers. 
Now look at the early Thief's World series. (The latter books aren't
worth reading.) The Editor took a group of characters and a setting and
gave them to different authors to use. The result, at least at the
start, was an interesting group of original stories all inspired by the
same thing. But each story was unique with both the publisher and writer
retaining certain legal rights. 

As a final note (no pun intended): A musician one told me that if you
look at the notes sections of Rock of Ages and Rudolph the Red Nosed
Reindeer  are identical. At least on paper.

Vic 
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 12:30:23 1998
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X-Path: ix.netcom.com!gunnx4
From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: beginning, intermediate, advanced
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:12:08 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep28.9128.0>
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I thought I already did! 


hmmmmmmm....well, I am confident about inverted curves...at least
one way, which is the only way I have ever seen or heard it being
done...  taking bits at a time...instead of just one score.

What is the #2 way?  

Suzanne...;o) in Tulsa, almost intermediate!


K. See wrote:
> 
> I loved this! I now know where I am and can't wait to ask the question
> about when to determine advanced. I'm sure Suzanne will agree.
> 
> Toby wrote:
> 
> > > From:          Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
> > > To:            glass@bungi.com
> > > Subject:       beginning, intermediate, advanced
> > > Date:          Mon, 28 Sep 1998 01:13:58 -0500
> >
> > > For those of you who teach,
> > > How do you determine someones level of cutting skill?
> > >
> >
> > .......When the cutter jumps automatically into the hands in an
> > upright position as opposed to pencil fashion;
> > ....when the pain between index- and longfinger is no longer felt;
> > ...when the score mark no longer looks as if the farmer has been
> > using his plough for turning the soil;
> > .....when  the student no longer needs reminding how to cut a circle
> > free-hand;
> > ....when the student is confident about using at least 2 ways of
> > getting out a deep inverted curve;
> >  .......when there are no longer jagged edges on the piece.
> > That's when I call the student "Intermediate"
> >  Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
> > ----
> > As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
> > North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
> > http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm
> > ----
> > ----
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
----
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 12:58:31 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Nunnikoven mold info
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:19:03 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep28.9193.0>
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I called Nunnikoven this am....
The catalog I saw in person was *old* *old* *old* they say...

Here are the current prices from Nunnikoven today...

14" square  $19.00
14" round   $22.00

Hex 12" $22.00
    16" $25.00

Sorry, I didnt realise how old the catalog was that I saw.
They did say that they will send you a free catalog with an order.
Catalog without an order is $10.00.  They didnt say whether they will
take $10 off your first purchase, and I didnt ask.

Suzanne, Tulsa
   
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 13:32:22 1998
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X-Path: ior.com!glshorse
From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: re:StLuke
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:30:13 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.53013.0>
Organization: Elizabeth Arakelian
Precedence: bulk

checked out the web site...there seems to be conflicting
information....mostly the profile on Luke is his work as a physician, no
mention of why he would be the patron saint of glassworkers...then a
discounting of his work as a painter,which would seem to be that
connection. HOWEVER I am Greek Orthodox and the word I got (including
from some seminarians) is that Luke is generally regarded as the first
iconographer. His icon of Mary ("Theotokos" or "God bearer" is the
correct term in Greek)and Jesus still exists, I believe, in Hagia Sophia
in Instanbul. Contrary to the info on the website, the Orthodox sources
I checked with said that Luke has NOT been discounted as a painter and
to the best of our knowledge those early icons were in fact painted by
him.  So I can see where the first iconographer would evolve into a
patron of glassworkers, as in the west, stained glass has pretty much
substituted for the byzantine icon...in fact in my book on the history
of stained glass one can see the progresssoin at the time of the
east/west split the windows look extremely iconographic progressing as
the years pass to look much more like the renaissance paintings we all
know so well...
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 13:58:18 1998
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X-Path: stratus.com!Charles_Spitzer
From: Charles_Spitzer@stratus.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="RE:"
Subject: RE: cookies
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:20:48 -0700
Message-ID: <H00000c3009aeb80@MHS>
References: <<199809281857.OAA00787@vger.vgernet.net>>
Precedence: bulk

> 
> > I tried these out. Great info but I found that my browser must be
set to 
> > accept cookies in order to get to the on-line Catalogs. DP had just
updated 
> > my Netscape and had changed the setting, it seems.
> 
> I don't know if you're complaining about cookies, Linda, or whether 
> you're asking how to set your browser to accept them, but allow me to 
> offer a tirade about why you *should accept cookies. <s>
> 
> You know how it is when you go into a shop you've visited before and 
> they greet you by name and have an idea what you've looked at and 
> have been interested in when you visited them before? They say, 
> "Welcome back, Linda. We've gotten in a new shipment of the glass you 
> were interested in last time but couldn't find what you wanted."
> 
> You feel "taken care of" and "cared about."
> 
> That's what cookies are for. They make your life easier. A 
> browser stores information about what you did on a particular web 
> site and does that storing on *your computer so that the next time 
> you go back to that web site, there's an indication of what you did 
> and what you were interested in. Cookies don't store your email 
> address, your social security number, your credit card number or any 
> other vital statistics ... and most of them self-erase after a 
> certain period of time.
> 
> Personally, I set my browser to accept all cookies. On Netscape 
> (which I recommend and which is used by 60% of those who visit our 
> site), click on Edit, pick Preferences, select Advanced, and then 
> Accept All Cookies. Then click on Okay. It's that simple. Enjoy!
> 
> Albert

conversly, another situation: ever been to a used car lot? pesky
salesmen just won't leave you alone to wander around kicking tires. you
express interest in a station wagon, talk to someone, and then leave.
you go into a autoparts store down the street, and they call you by name
when you walk in, pointing you at white sidewalls that would go great on
your new station wagon. you wonder how they knew about that. 

you walk down the street to the supermarket. they greet you by name and
point you to the baby food aisle and tire cleaner for the whitewalls,
because they say if you have a big station wagon with whitewalls, you
must have lots of kids and need whitewall cleaner. you wonder how they
knew that.

you go across town to the hardware store. they point you at the 4x8'
sheets of plywood, since you have a big station wagon to haul them on
top. you wonder how they knew about that.

you go home. you start getting calls about building additional rooms
since you have a growing family (diaper secton and big sheets of
plywood), need extra garage space for the new car (autodealer), extra
insurance for the new car (autodealer), and people trying to sell you
automatic whitewall cleaners that work while parked in your garage (auto
parts store). you wonder why they start calling you.

everyone seems to be sharing information about you.

that's what cookies do. they leave little pieces of your presence at
various places on the net so that each time you go to a site, can be
interrogated by the page owner. this allows them to target you for
specific ads. they also are a source of revenue for these web page
operators, since they can sell that information about you to companies
that would like to know  what your interests are.

think this isn't happening? guess again. it is, all the time. each time
you fill out a form, you leave a piece of yourself there that they can
sell. each time you visit a page that uses web adverts from some certain
companies, you leave a piece of information. if you then visit another
site that uses the same advert software, they already know you there.
this may be good, or it may be bad. in either case, it's out of your
control.

charlie
Phoenix, AZ
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 14:33:10 1998
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X-Path: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: Front surface mirror
Date: Mon Sep 28 13:41:55 1998
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.111755.0>
Precedence: bulk

I usually offer a prayer to St Jude. From what I've been told he is the
patron saint of lost causes. 
Of course being Jewish I'm not sure it does any good.

Vic
		-----Original Message-----
		From:	HiimLaura@aol.com [mailto:HiimLaura@aol.com]
		Sent:	Sunday, September 27, 1998 7:17 PM
		To:	glass@bungi.com
		Subject:	Re: Front surface mirror

		Hi all!

		The patron saint of glass workers is St. Luke...and so
just so I don't get any
		of those bashing emails telling me that I'm wrong (you
know who you are) check
		it out at!:

		 <A
HREF="http://www.catholic.org/saints/stsindex.html">Catholic Online
Saints
		Index</A>

		Laura 
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 15:17:32 1998
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From: "Michele Spruill" <mrsdesigns@hotmail.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: shutters
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:21:16 PDT
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Hello all!

I have a friend who has asked me to make her a small set of shutters for 
a pass through window from her kitchen.  After looking at the louvered 
shutters already in place, we decided retro-fitting them for the glass 
would look cheap, and I should do it right.  How do I make a frame for 
these shutters?  Do I use a framing stock with a 5/16 channel and add 
hinges to each framed window?  I haven't acturally seen any shutters 
since we decided this would be my next challenge.

Your suggestions are welcome!
Michele

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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 15:32:16 1998
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From: ctronsoft.com!vmodiano
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Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: RE: cookies
Date: Mon Sep 28 14:25:17 1998
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I agree with Charlie. 
If I want information I'll ask. I get enough junk as it is. 
Albert has a point that it is nice to be remembered at a store, but
which of us want a form card for our birthday.
I've had friends who could not stop the junk mail. Even after the person
it was addressed to died.

Cookies are just a more subtle form of Big Brother

Vic


		everyone seems to be sharing information about you.

		that's what cookies do. they leave little pieces of your
presence at
		various places on the net so that each time you go to a
site, can be
		interrogated by the page owner. this allows them to
target you for
		specific ads. they also are a source of revenue for
these web page
		operators, since they can sell that information about
you to companies
		that would like to know  what your interests are.

		think this isn't happening? guess again. it is, all the
time. each time
		you fill out a form, you leave a piece of yourself there
that they can
		sell. each time you visit a page that uses web adverts
from some certain
		companies, you leave a piece of information. if you then
visit another
		site that uses the same advert software, they already
know you there.
		this may be good, or it may be bad. in either case, it's
out of your
		control.

		charlie
		Phoenix, AZ
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 15:59:36 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
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Subject: re:StLuke
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> from some seminarians) is that Luke is generally regarded as the first
> iconographer. His icon of Mary ("Theotokos" or "God bearer" is the
> correct term in Greek)and Jesus still exists, I believe, in Hagia Sophia
> in Instanbul. 

I'm puzzled. If Luke was one of Christ's apostles, then he was an 
adult when he was called to the position. But the Hagia Sophia was 
built from 532 to 537A.D., so how could his iconography have been 
inscribed in the building?

Albert
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 16:37:39 1998
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Dear EliZabeth (ARAKELIAN)
Ho, ho... YET another Eliz/sabeth...
Your little exposee quite fascinated me . Thank you!
At first I thought your name might have Armenian origins.
How about posting a Bio to Patrick.
I - for one - would love to know more about you.....
Thank you again
EliSabeth 'n Toby in UK

> SNIP< HOWEVER I am Greek Orthodox and the word I got (including
> from some seminarians) is that Luke is generally regarded as the first
> iconographer. His icon of Mary ("Theotokos" or "God bearer" is the
> correct term in Greek)and Jesus still exists, I believe, in Hagia Sophia
> in Instanbul. Contrary to the info on the website, the Orthodox sources
> I checked with ....SNIP
----
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North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 17:00:13 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Ethics
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:37:21 -0500
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I have a friend(yes, Elisabeth....  at least one) who is an art teacher. The
most fun project her students do is to reinterpret the Mona Lisa.
She has photos of the famous Mona with a pink Mohawk haircut, sunglasses,
pierced eyebrows, pierced nose, rings on her fingers, bathing suit, etc. it
is hilarious. Who says art can't be fun?

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 17:31:02 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
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Subject: RE: Front surface mirror
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> Of course being Jewish I'm not sure it does any good.
> 
> Vic

Of *course, it does, Vic. But the usual sense of humor dished out 
along with that particular ethnicity probably helps more. <g> It's 
not for nothing that it's said that laughing is to keep from crying.

Personally, anytime anyone wishes any god's blessing on me I'm 
grateful. Heaven knows, I need all the blessings I can get.

Albert
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 17:32:20 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: Bio.. Gustafson!!!!!!
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Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 00:37:08 +0000
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Well Sandra,
Welcome to the Madhatters Party!

I think I might have a PARTICULAR reason to welcome you, since your 
name most definitely reveals a SWEDISH connection.
I am so terribly lonely here and nobody CARES!! ....And NOBODY 
listens to a poor little pityful little Swedish voice in the 
Wilderness.... They ALL tarnish me with  the BRITISH brush..... 
just because I HAPPEN to live in UK
S O B!!!
EliSabeth 'n Toby in UK

Sandra wrote:
> Hi Everyone!
> I am new to the list and to glass also.  Pat is being so pitiful that I
> could not but help him out and send my bio in.
 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 17:54:47 1998
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Well !!???
Yes???

So WHERE IS IT???
That Patrick is totally useless.
He is running around (ONE-Legged!!) in a pale blue "Tu-Tu" and 
making a right old perforamance of himself....
ACH!! Lieber Gott!! What is the world coming to!!??
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK


> Dani also promises to send in
> a bio as soon as < SNIP>
----
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http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 17:56:42 1998
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Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:50:10 +0000
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Oh Dear Asa, Tor and Odin,

It is at JUST before this point I go all hot and cold and the 
perspiration starts crawling down my back and  I go paranoid.
I try and tip-toe very gently around... with great hefty woolly socks 
to avoid leaving any foor-prints anywhere. I never participate in 
"consumer surveys", however high the "bait" is, I never leave my 
telephone number with ANYONE other than with my friends If I connive 
it very carefully and plausibly,  I can even succeed in making a 
total mess of the mandatory "Population Census". I want to be in 
control of any information about my likes and dislikes, habits (bad 
OR good!) and personal life MYSELF. I don't care if noone knows my 
name when I turn up a second time in a shop. I MYSELF want to chose 
when to part with any information I consider private. I totally 
recoil when some "brash" salesman blunders ahead and asks me "Can I 
call you Liz?" YUCK!! When I chose that the time is right for me to 
become a patron of someone or some establishment, I don't need 
flattery and I don't need "buttering up". On the whole, I know what I 
want and when I want it. If I don't know where to find it, I'll ASK. 

The double-glazing tele-sales people ALWAYS used to call or phone 
right  at the very second I would lift the first fork-full of dinner 
to my mouth, or just as I was about to serve up the first dinner 
course to my guests. So I went ex-directory. I don't actually want 
these unsolicted calls.

In reverse, the same treatment has occasionally been "meted" out to 
myself.... The St.Francis panels is a point in case. Years ago, I 
used to spend about 3 days a week demonstrating my own "How-To" at a 
a bit of up-market Craft Market in UK. It cost an arm and a leg to 
have a space there, I stayed there for about 5 years and did 
reasonably well.

For about 4 months a tall, middle-aged, erect and statuesque lady 
came to watch me week in, week out. She never spoke to me, she never 
introduced herself.... not a word was exchanged.  She just came to 
watch me. After the first 2 months I did begin to wonder who she was 
and what she wanted. But it was obvious to me that she needed NOT to 
talk. If I turned up late or had to disappear for a little while, the 
other Craftspeople used to tease me and say "Your Mystery Lady" has 
just been. Finally , finally she was ready to talk.  She was the Head 
of the St.Francis College for Girls, which is quite a prestigeous 
boarding school in the County.  Thus began a most delightful, 
exciting collaboration to create 6 panels for the School Chapel to 
commemorate  another most extraordinary benefactress who had died 12 
months previously and left the College with a fair bit of money, part 
of which they (The College) wanted to use to commemorate HER.
I spent days and days in the College Chapel (Roman Catholic), 
wondered and fretted about if I was the Right Person to do the work.
The result you can see on my WEB-page. The centre panel has a piece 
of masonry from the Berlin Wall as it was dismantled.( I now have 3 
pieces left). I firmly believe I was RIGHT in allowing HER to 
determine the pace of what SHE wanted me to know initially.
Perhaps there is a little bit of my Swedish nature creeping in 
here..... Your Freedom ends, where mine begins......
It cuts very little ice with me to be "gushed over" and this strange 
person appears to know everything about me, without me having any 
control of what I wish him/her to know.

Computer "cookies" are a little bit like the old type clip-board 
canvassers in the street.... just a little bit more subtle... I 
examine them with considerable caution and analysis.I leave as "soft" 
woolly-sock  footprint behind as I possibly can.... enough for me to 
get the information I want, but not enough to be totally deluged with 
unwanted information & intimacy (for instance LIPO-SUCTION!!!), or 
"brash" intrusion  to my dignity. Calling me "Liz" is a total 
turn-off and the salesman has lost a sale before he has even 
begun..... 
OFF soap-box.
Just proceed with caution.
Determine for yourselves if "flattery" is something you actually 
need.

Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Charlie wrote (edited):
> you go home. you start getting calls about building additional rooms
> since you have a growing family (diaper secton and big sheets of
> plywood), need extra garage space for the new car (autodealer), extra
> insurance for the new car (autodealer), and people trying to sell you
> automatic whitewall cleaners that work while parked in your garage (auto
> parts store). you wonder why they start calling you.
> 
> everyone seems to be sharing information about you.
> 
> that's what cookies do. they leave little pieces of your presence at
> various places on the net so that each time you go to a site, can be
> interrogated by the page owner. this allows them to target you for
> specific ads. they also are a source of revenue for these web page
> operators, since they can sell that information about you to companies
> that would like to know  what your interests are.
> 
> think this isn't happening? guess again. it is, all the time. each time
> you fill out a form, you leave a piece of yourself there that they can
> sell. each time you visit a page that uses web adverts from some certain
> companies, you leave a piece of information. if you then visit another
> site that uses the same advert software, they already know you there.
> this may be good, or it may be bad. in either case, it's out of your
> control.
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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Or if you're having a really bad glass day, you could always try
St.Rita....the patron Saint of Impossible circumstances....

Laura
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 18:22:12 1998
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Hey! It's just my opinion!

:-)

Laura

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Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 20:08:04 +0100
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Cc: cpjaram@7cities.net
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Ethics Question
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Laura,
You seem to be very hard on a lot of artists in this post.
A very significant number of artists would not be able to call much of
their work original.  An architect who was known in Glasgow as "Greek"
Thompson, took most all of his ideas from classical Greek and Egyptian
building and design ideas.  He did put them together in slightly
different ways, but was insistant that the forms should be combined in
proportions just as the ancients did.  

So is his work original?  Not in your definition, it seems.
His work is admired throughout the UK and parts of Europe as being
significant.  He also is a partial inspiration for the post-modern
architects who seem to be so popular nowadays. 

All this just to say that I don't agree with you.  :-)

In message <1998Sep27.163022.0@?>, HiimLaura@aol.com writes
>
>Hi there! Here is my (humble?) opinion on your query:
>
>This is a hard one. I look at it this way:
>If you FEEL that you are doing something "wrong", then don't do it. 
>If you are entering a juied show which calls for original work, you have to
>define what  "ORIGINAL" means. To me, original means something that I created
>from zero - totally my idea, etc. In much of my own work I can see INFLUENCES
>from various eras of design or even from clasical artists that I study in
>college, but I began my designs by sitting down with only a pencil and a
blank
>sheet of paper.

Good for you, but I have seen a number of artists start from a series or
group of images and go on to produce their own work

>
>I'd say it comes down to your gut instinct...
>By the way you described all the different ways that you altered someone
>else's original design, it seems that you are not really "copying" someone
>else's work, but altering someone else's work. But is it original? No, it is
a
>pattern/design that was created by an artist that you have altered.
Therefore,
>I would say that it is not your original work.

.........cut...........

>Or how about thinking of it this way:
>We are all obviously influenced by designs that we see everywhere, whether
>they are ancient, classical designs, or a work by a famous artist. You
admired
>the design that you found. You liked the lines or the style, or the movement
>(or lack thereof!) and you printed out the design. Now to use the design, and
>alter it, well I would say that it is definately not your design. I could
make
>a painting of The Mona Lisa and totally change the hair, facial features,
>backround, etc., but it is not my original idea. Now remember, this is only
my
>humble opinion. 
>I'm sure you will make the right decision. Good luck!
>
>Laura
>
>P.S. - What you have created might be titled something like,  "Study of
floral
>panel by Joe so-and-so"  ?

I have seen material in retrospective exhibitions titled in the fashion
"xyz after joe bloggs" and it still seems to be considered original.

Just a few thoughts which consider that there are a number of grey areas
rather than all black and white ones

Steve

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk

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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 18:22:44 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!LuvArtGlas
From: LuvArtGlas@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: History of Stained Glass...On the net?
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 20:18:07 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.0187.0>
Precedence: bulk

I am a graphic design student.. And of course a lover of stained glass
Our current book doesnt cover graphics used on stained glass...
I am supposed to do a written report (bibliography and all)  But I am 
having trouble finding information on Stained glass history.. My objective is
to prove stained glass was used as a form of graphic communication.. (In other
words used to tell stories to people that couldnt read) I may use information
before the 1800's
I am especially fasinated with Powerful images used by churches to curtail
sin, and glorify Heaven... Any written language on windows would be a bonus.:)
Of course I am a poor college student and can not afford to buy these books...
So the web must be my source... 2 weeks isnt much time to try to do a libaray
loan... Also I would like to provide links to History sites from my webpage.

Thankyou in advance for any and all help:)
Suzan
LuvArtGlas@aol.com
webpage under construction
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 19:06:30 1998
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From: StndGlass1@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: cookies
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:36:10 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.13610.0>
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Voicing my opinion on the matter, cookies are a highly misunderstood thing.
On our online ordering system we have to use cookies.  They do not identify
you by anything other than a number, and do this so that if multiple people
are placing an order at the same time, they do not get mixed.   Without
cookies, our online ordering system would be impossible.  There are too many
people out there who have been told that if I put a cookie on their machine,
I'll show up at their front door with a birthday card.  In reality, it tells
me absolutely nothing about you, just distinguishes you from another user on
my site at the same time.

Hope that makes sense....

Jenna Meredith-Sanders
Meredith Stained Glass
www.meredithglass.com
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 19:35:49 1998
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From: maruca@netaxs.com
To: HiimLaura@aol.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: santitos
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:50:55 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <1998Sep28.175055.0>
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Precedence: bulk



On Mon, 28 Sep 1998 HiimLaura@aol.com wrote:

> 
> Or if you're having a really bad glass day, you could always try
> St.Rita....the patron Saint of Impossible circumstances....
> 
> Laura
> ----


or.... St. Jude, patron of lost causes


		or St. Dymphna, patron of the nervously afflicted



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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 19:39:42 1998
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From: CM Smith <cmsmith@fast.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: cornerette's
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:12:40 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep28.181240.0>
Precedence: bulk

I am working on some cornerette's for a friend at work. I found the
pattern in an old supply book.  They  have the oak frames in the book..
However, now that I am looking for the frames, none of the suppliers
sell them anymore. Now I have a problem, I have the cornerettes
completed and have no frame to put them in. My husband and I are trying
to figure out a way to make them, but we are having a difficult time
trying to get the glass to stay in the frame, since it will be free
hanging. Can someone please give us some suggestions?

thanks
chris

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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 20:42:44 1998
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From: "Pat Kelly" <pkelly@n-link.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: RE: Bio
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:08:29 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep28.17829.0>
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Hey ... Hey... you forgot the flower tiara. I have to stick it on with GE
4000 but that's OK. Useless? My neighbors don't think so. They have started
to sell tickets. Quick more bios before they become millionaires and move.

Elisabeth Wrote:

<<That Patrick is totally useless. He is running around (ONE-Legged!!) in a
pale blue "Tu-Tu" and making a right old perforamance of himself....

Patrick
Roses and Rainbows

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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 21:09:21 1998
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From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" <cpjaram@7cities.net>
To: "Bungi" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Re: re:StLuke
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:41:30 -0600
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St. Luke was not one of the Big twelve.  He converted to Christianity during
his adult life.  He was from an non-jewish family.  Probably born in ancient
Syria.  He was an educated man, so he decided to write his gospels from the
stories being handed down, not from first hand witnessing.
-----Original Message-----
From: Albert Lewis <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com <glass@bungi.com>
Date: Monday, September 28, 1998 4:08 PM
Subject: re:StLuke


>
>> from some seminarians) is that Luke is generally regarded as the first
>> iconographer. His icon of Mary ("Theotokos" or "God bearer" is the
>> correct term in Greek)and Jesus still exists, I believe, in Hagia Sophia
>> in Instanbul.
>
>I'm puzzled. If Luke was one of Christ's apostles, then he was an
>adult when he was called to the position. But the Hagia Sophia was
>built from 532 to 537A.D., so how could his iconography have been
>inscribed in the building?
>
>Albert
>----
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>

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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 21:28:15 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Pam, stepping stone molds
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:49:14 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep28.174914.0>
Precedence: bulk

I ordered 2x 14" molds from Nunnikoven today for $22 a piece.  total of
$50 for 2 with shipping and handling.

I could just cry.  I looked at Meridith's online catalog tonight and saw
they have them for $14.95.
Guess I found a new place to shop....later.  Man, I wish I had seen this
sooner.

Tulsa Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 21:44:35 1998
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X-Path: erols.com!nadinesfolly
From: Nadine Beth Schneider <nadinesfolly@erols.com>
To: Witchdoc3@aol.com
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
Subject: Re: Bios Alas and Alack -  gone to the dogs
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:40:42 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep28.194042.0>
References: <<1998Sep28.163328.0>>
Organization: Custom Art Glass Studio
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--------------3772809DFC4140C50AB9777C
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I beg your pardon! Patrick's not old. . .he's well seasoned. . .
but not by juniper berries and gin.  I think of him more like. . .
a well aged filet mignon--real soft and tender. No knives needed!
Just the best!
                  Nadine

Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 9/27/98 9:38:08 PM, toby@northlights.co.uk wrote:
>
> >Bring back dinner!!! Go get  G..N..O..M..O..N!!
> >Elisabeth in UK (Toby left posthaste!!)
>
> I dunno....... I think Patrick is a bit old and tough to make into the
> customary "juniper-smoked boy steaks".......
>
> Sparks
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 21:49:18 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: LuvArtGlas@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: History of Stained Glass...On the net?
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:38:20 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep28.173820.0>
References: <<1998Sep29.0187.0>>
Precedence: bulk

LuvArtGlas@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I am a graphic design student.. And of course a lover of stained glass
> Our current book doesnt cover graphics used on stained glass...
> I am supposed to do a written report (bibliography and all)  But I am
> having trouble finding information on Stained glass history.. My objective is
> to prove stained glass was used as a form of graphic communication.. (In other
> words used to tell stories to people that couldnt read) I may use information
> before the 1800's
> I am especially fasinated with Powerful images used by churches to curtail
> sin, and glorify Heaven... Any written language on windows would be a bonus.:)
> Of course I am a poor college student and can not afford to buy these books...
> So the web must be my source... 2 weeks isnt much time to try to do a libaray
> loan... Also I would like to provide links to History sites from my webpage.
> 
> Thankyou in advance for any and all help:)
> Suzan
> LuvArtGlas@aol.com
> webpage under construction
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


my links page 3 should have the histories of stained glass. what
probably tells a story better are the ancient mosiacs done by the
various dead societies. roman, greek etc. they probably tell a story
better then anything else. the glass in part should be glass, and parts
of it should also be glass.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 22:07:50 1998
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From: Teresa Ross <tmr@oxford.net>
To: "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: copper foiling
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 23:20:16 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep27.162016.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Everyone,

I'm having trouble with copper foiling. I can't get the copper to stick =
to the glass. I haven't done it for a while but don't recall having this =
trouble before.

Any help would be appreciated.

teresa ross
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 23:11:31 1998
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X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A
From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB   DUCHESNEAU)
To: glass@bungi.com, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com, glass@intrastar.net
Subject: Pam, stepping stone molds
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 01:46:24, -0500
Message-ID: <199809290546.BAA14812@mime3.prodigy.com>
Precedence: bulk

>>I ordered 2x 14" molds from Nunnikoven today for $22 a piece.  
total of
$50 for 2 with shipping and handling.

I could just cry.  I looked at Meridith's online catalog tonight and 
saw
they have them for $14.95.
Guess I found a new place to shop....later.  Man, I wish I had seen 
this
sooner.

Tulsa Suzanne<<

Oh dear, should have told you sooner. Why buy expensive molds when 
you can make them for pennies.

For a round mold make or buy a plywood round of the desired size and 
then use plastic bender board nailed on to make the sides. 

For a square or rectangle do the same thing or substitute wood for 
the sides.

For a hex etc. do the same except that it is necessary to cut the 
correct angle for each of the sides.

Mix a little fine cement and run it into the seam between the bottom 
of the mold and the sides to form a slight radias. This makes an edge 
that is less likely to chip in the molded product.

Take some of your concrete mix and put it through a sifter to make 
topping mix. Use the rest of the bag for the basic stone.

Several years ago when molds for stepping stones first came out I 
bought a set to evaluate them as an item to stock. Don't carry them 
but do give out the above advice. Don't make any easy money from them 
either. :-(

Bob

____
Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026
Want to talk glass? Join E-mail list:     glass@intrastar.net
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From owner-glass Mon Sep 28 23:31:55 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: bad day? IE glass
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:32:15 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep28.113215.0>
Precedence: bulk

Instead of asking for help, set your mind and improve what you are currently
exposed to. Make the best of it!

The old saw: a fighter asking for DEVINE help before a prize fight, will not
get much help if he cannot fight!

We are starting to deviate a bit, NO????????

enjoy (as much as possible) H

weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard   best lamps on the "net"
enmeshed in the internet
trapped in the world wide web


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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 00:16:11 1998
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------1FC7C7E7E60A189491B0D9D3"
Subject: Re: Pam Stepping Stone Molds
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:41:21 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep28.164121.0>
Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited
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--------------1FC7C7E7E60A189491B0D9D3
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Suzanne in Tulsa,

Well Darn it! Guess that means that Nunnikoven ain't gonna send me that
catalog I asked for. Course I asked them to send it to me and didn't
realize the hefty price tag on it. I must have missed that part. $10.00
could buy my family alot of toilet paper ya know. Humm, I'll be a waitin
aloooong time I'm afraid for that catalog *s*.

The molds for stepping stones I can pretty much come up with myself.
It's those bad boy planters, or the awesome fountains, or the cute
little creatures that I need or have to have I should say. That is my
bonanza! And are they spendy, oh yeah! Just like ceramic molds are. Must
have a silver lining in them somewhere.

And yes, shop around before you buy anything. Meredith Stained Glass
Center does have good buys, along with the other retailers that are here
at bungi. Now I sure won't mention that Co-op idea again or I'll have
retailers on my tail or worse yet, picketing in front of my house with
big square signs saying down with co-ops!

But then, along comes Bob, who doesn't stock them but he sure will tell
you how to make them and that's better yet!

See you,

Pam *sm*




--
*********************************
Moswood Mountain Limited
Pamela Burns-Tappan
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html

Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

Join our live glass chat!
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.igga.org/


--------------1FC7C7E7E60A189491B0D9D3
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<HTML>
Suzanne in Tulsa,

<P>Well Darn it! Guess that means that Nunnikoven ain't gonna send me that
catalog I asked for. Course I asked them to send it to me and didn't realize
the hefty price tag on it. I must have missed that part. $10.00 could buy
my family alot of toilet paper ya know. Humm, I'll be a waitin aloooong
time I'm afraid for that catalog *s*.

<P>The molds for stepping stones I can pretty much come up with myself.
It's those bad boy planters, or the awesome fountains, or the cute little
creatures that I need or <B>have to have</B> I should say. That is my bonanza!
And are they spendy, oh yeah! Just like ceramic molds are. Must have a
silver lining in them somewhere.

<P>And yes, shop around before you buy anything. Meredith Stained Glass
Center does have good buys, along with the other retailers that are here
at bungi. Now I sure won't mention that Co-op idea again or I'll have retailers
on my tail or worse yet, picketing in front of my house with big square
signs saying down with co-ops!

<P>But then, along comes Bob, who doesn't stock them but he sure will tell
you how to make them and that's better yet!

<P>See you,

<P>Pam *sm*
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;

<P>--
<BR>*********************************
<BR>Moswood Mountain Limited
<BR>Pamela Burns-Tappan
<BR><A HREF="http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html">http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html</A>

<P>Proud Member Of:

<P>The Stained Glass Artists
<BR><A HREF="http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html">http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html</A>

<P>Join our live glass chat!
<BR><A HREF="http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html">http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html</A>
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>The International Guild of Glass Artists
<BR><A HREF="http://www.igga.org/">http://www.igga.org/</A>
<BR>&nbsp;</HTML>

--------------1FC7C7E7E60A189491B0D9D3--

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 02:19:11 1998
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From: "Doug Parrott" <bird_cage@email.msn.com>
To: "Teresa Ross" <tmr@oxford.net>
Subject: Re: copper foiling
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 01:34:53 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep28.183453.0>
Precedence: bulk

Teresa,

I have made it a habit to soak all my glass pieces in rubbing alchohol
before foiling.  You only need to soak them for a minute or so.  Besure to
dry them off real well.  This should cut any of through any of the oil.    A
few months back I did  come across some foil that just plain wouldn't stick.
The glue on the tape had almost no adhesion.   I had purchased three rolls
of the tape at the same store and all three rolls were bad.  Now I mark
inside on the side roll of the tape the  date purchased,  the place I bought
it and the size of the tape.


Cheryl Parrott




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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 03:36:38 1998
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: StLuke
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 06:21:32 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.22132.0>
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Elizabeth,

Thankyou so much for jumping in and shedding ligh on the St. Luke thing. I 
too went to the web site and couldn't make sense of it but not being 
Catholic (with a capital C) I figured it was just me. Now that we have 
enticed you out of the corners, I hope we hear more from you.

Linda Campbell

P.S. Growing up in the Lutheran church we made reference to belief in the 
catholic church (lower case c) in the Apostle's Creed.



Elizabeth said:
checked out the web site...there seems to be conflicting
information....mostly the profile on Luke is his work as a physician, no
mention of why he would be the patron saint of glassworkers...then a
discounting of his work as a painter,which would seem to be that
connection. HOWEVER I am Greek Orthodox and the word I got (including
from some seminarians) is that Luke is generally regarded as the first
iconographer. His icon of Mary ("Theotokos" or "God bearer" is the

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 04:06:55 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon
From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: cmsmith@fast.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: cornerette's
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 06:56:22 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.105622.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Chris,

I have made a few cornerettes and didn't want to spend the bucks on the frames
so I just hung them with tiny split rings.  I soldered the split rings on each
of the three corners and then used tiny screws to put them up.  There is a
small space all the way around but hardly noticeable once they are up.  If you
leave the one in the corner off and just put rings on the two other ends, you
won't even have the space, but the cornerette can move slightly when cleaning
them.  Mine are hung with three but my mother had me remove the corner one
because she didn't like the space and it works just fine.

Did you try emailing Warner to see if they could order them for you?  I know
they used to carry them.

Good luck.
Brenda 

In a message dated 9/29/98 12:52:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cmsmith@fast.net
writes:

<< I am working on some cornerette's for a friend at work. I found the
 pattern in an old supply book.  They  have the oak frames in the book..
 However, now that I am looking for the frames, none of the suppliers
 sell them anymore. Now I have a problem, I have the cornerettes
 completed and have no frame to put them in. My husband and I are trying
 to figure out a way to make them, but we are having a difficult time
 trying to get the glass to stay in the frame, since it will be free
 hanging. Can someone please give us some suggestions?
 
 thanks
 chris >>
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 04:44:22 1998
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From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: copper foiling
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 07:00:44 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.11044.0>
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In a message dated 9/29/98 1:08:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, tmr@oxford.net
writes:

<< I'm having trouble with copper foiling. I can't get the copper to stick =
 to the glass. I haven't done it for a while but don't recall having this =
 trouble before. >>
Hi Teresa,

It could be bad foil, either by manufacture or the foil is old.  I only clean
my pieces by soaking in water after grinding and usually have no problem.  But
I did have a batch of bad foil once.  Finally threw it out, wasn't worth the
aggravation.

Brenda
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 05:03:00 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: cookies
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:31:02 +0000
Message-ID: <199809291122.MAA20976@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk

Are you sure about that?????
Hmmm.
Sounds far too good
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Jenna wrote:
  There are too many
> people out there who have been told that if I put a cookie on their machine,
> I'll show up at their front door with a birthday card.  In reality, it tells
> me absolutely nothing about you, just distinguishes you from another user on
> my site at the same time.
> 
> Hope that makes sense....
> 
 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 05:16:42 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: re:StLuke
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 07:08:43 +0000
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> St. Luke was not one of the Big twelve.  He converted to Christianity during
> his adult life.  He was from an non-jewish family.  Probably born in ancient
> Syria.  He was an educated man, so he decided to write his gospels from the
> stories being handed down, not from first hand witnessing.

I really have to start reading the Bible again. <blush>

Albert
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 05:36:57 1998
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From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>, "'CM Smith'" <cmsmith@fast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: cornerette's
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 07:43:48 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.34348.0>
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Chris,

This month's Glass Patterns Quarterly has a pattern and source for the 
wooden cornerettes. I have a pattern book at home (I forget the name but 
will look it up for you tonight if you are interested) that shows how to 
hang them so that they are secure and yet can be easily removed so you can 
change them with the season that does not require purchasing the frames. 
The idea is a T-frame attached to the top edge of the glass that slides 
into an open edged curtain rod (the old cheap kind) that is mounted to the 
top and side of your corner. This could be mounted to a wooden corner piece 
to keep it from being mounted directly to plaster. If you don't want to buy 
the pattern packet, I could snail mail you just the portion about the 
installation. Let me know.

Linda

----------
From: 	CM Smith[SMTP:cmsmith@fast.net]
I am working on some cornerette's for a friend at work. I found the
pattern in an old supply book.  They  have the oak frames in the book..
However, now that I am looking for the frames, none of the suppliers
sell them anymore. Now I have a problem, I have the cornerettes
completed and have no frame to put them in. My husband and I are trying
to figure out a way to make them, but we are having a difficult time
trying to get the glass to stay in the frame, since it will be free
hanging. Can someone please give us some suggestions?


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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 05:50:12 1998
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From: StndGlass1@aol.com
To: toby@northlights.co.uk, glass@bungi.com
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Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:26:30 EDT
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In a message dated 9/29/98 8:04:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
toby@northlights.co.uk writes:

<< Are you sure about that?????
 Hmmm.
 Sounds far too good
 Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK >>

Quite positive.  There *ARE* cookies out there that can store your
information, but only ones that are programmed to do so.  My cookies are
pretty basic.  Not even any chocolate chips!!!  You're just a number to them!
8-)

Jenna Meredith-Sanders
Meredith Stained Glass
www.meredithglass.com
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 06:16:59 1998
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From: HiimLaura@aol.com
To: LuvArtGlas@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: History of Stained Glass...On the net?
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:47:40 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.124740.0>
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Hi Suzan:

Why don't you try going to a library and doing research on art history...or if
you can't seem to get yourself to a library, why not use an online one (there
are many!). Of course, you may not find photos on the web that you would find
in books - going to a library - your local, or any college library (your
college or any other) - seems your best bet. You probably won't  need to do an
inter-library loan, if you take the time to check out what your library has to
offer.You may be able to find some info. on the web, but as for your
bibliography and validity of sources - that could be a concern! What you
probably will need to do is find sources on stained glass in churches (the
older the better, it seems in your situation), and  then use your terms and
knowledge from your graphic design courses to interpret in your own words how
stained glass was/is a form of graphic design. Feel free to email me if you
need any help concerning citation - I'm an expert! Good luck!

The perpetual professional writing / art history / media law student

Laura
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 06:32:25 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  cornerette's
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:49:27 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.124927.0>
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In a message dated 9/29/98 5:52:41 AM, cmsmith@fast.net wrote:

>I am working on some cornerette's for a friend at work. [...]

Uhhhhhhhhh...... what's a cornerette?


Sparks
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "Teresa Ross" <tmr@oxford.net>, "'glass@bungi.com'" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: copper foiling
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 98 09:05:20 -0400
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>Hi Everyone,
>
>I'm having trouble with copper foiling. I can't get the copper to stick =
>to the glass. I haven't done it for a while but don't recall having this =
>trouble before.

Teresa, 
It could be your foil is old and has been exposed to humidity.
Try a new pack of foil, and between usings keep it stored in a plastic 
baggie.
Suzanne
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 06:50:36 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  Re: beginning, intermediate, advanced
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:49:28 EDT
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In a message dated 9/28/98 8:32:00 PM, gunnx4@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>hmmmmmmm....well, I am confident about inverted curves...at least
>one way, which is the only way I have ever seen or heard it being
>done...  taking bits at a time...instead of just one score.
>
>What is the #2 way?  

Use a band/ring saw :-)


Sparks

looking out over my shoulder and getting ready to *really* run like hell lest
Tobysaurus Rex sneak up and make a snack out of my gnomon.....
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 07:17:52 1998
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Po little ole Swede
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:00:38 -0400
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Message text written by "Elisabeth & Toby"
>I am so terribly lonely here and nobody CARES!! ....And NOBODY =

listens to a poor little pityful little Swedish voice in the =

Wilderness.... They ALL tarnish me with  the BRITISH brush..... =

just because I HAPPEN to live in UK<

Oy!  What a kvetcher.  Po little ole thang.  Well, baby,
we care, no matter what your ethnic background and/or
place of residence.

Christie A. Wood (who isn't Swedish, Jewish, Brit, etc.)
(but who is a Southern American living in the Philadelphia
area and want to return to New Zealand someday)
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From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
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Subject: copper foiling
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:00:42 -0400
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Message text written by Teresa Ross
>I'm having trouble with copper foiling. I can't get the copper to stick =
=3D
to the glass. I haven't done it for a while but don't recall having this =
=3D
trouble before.<

How about giving us more of a hint as to what's wrong, so we can
help you diagnose the problem.  For instance, did you grind all
edges prior to foiling?  Did you clean the glass after grinding and
prior to foiling in order to remove residual glass dust?  How old is
your foil?  Are you fully burnishing the foil down into the ground
edges? etc....

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 08:23:35 1998
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X-Path: erols.com!nadinesfolly
From: Nadine Beth Schneider <nadinesfolly@erols.com>
To: Teresa Ross <tmr@oxford.net>, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
Subject: Re: copper foiling
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:35:55 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.63555.0>
References: <<1998Sep27.162016.0>>
Organization: Custom Art Glass Studio
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------CED104310BF36867EE9E360E
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Teresa. . .
You need to make sure that your glass is absolutely clean
--especially on the edges. If that is the case then probably
the problem is your foil.  I had the same problem with
Venture foil--had to throw out alot of rolls. Then I started
to use Edco foil and I've never had the problem again.
                       Nadine

Teresa Ross wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> I'm having trouble with copper foiling. I can't get the copper to stick =
> to the glass. I haven't done it for a while but don't recall having this =
> trouble before.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> teresa ross
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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Subject: Re:  cornerette's
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 07:28:39 -0700
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>
>In a message dated 9/29/98 5:52:41 AM, cmsmith@fast.net wrote:
>
>>I am working on some cornerette's for a friend at work. [...]
>
>Uhhhhhhhhh...... what's a cornerette?
>

Sparks...I think that's a musical instrument in the band that Patrick dances
to in his tutu! <g>


Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 09:35:00 1998
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X-Path: itforce.com!tbussey
From:     "Tim Bussey - IT Force, Inc." <tbussey@itforce.com>
To:        <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject:  Hiring 70 IT Consultants For Big 6 Consulting Firm in Atlanta
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:19:27 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <m0zO1Yl-0000hnC@daver.bungi.com>
Precedence: bulk

Hi, I have two positions that I feel might be in line with your=
 skills. My client, a Big 6 consulting firm here in Atlanta is=
 looking to fill the following positions within the next 60 days.=
 I have included the job descriptions below for your review.=
 Please review the requirements and if interested please send the=
 information outlined below.


Job #1781: Business Process Consultant
Must have 2 to 7 years experience programming software=
 applications for the automation of business processes, such as=
 Billing, Accounting and Human Resource applications. Must have a=
 programming background with full life cycle development=
 experience. Must have experience with one or more of the=
 following programming laguages: C, C++, PowerBuilder, COBOL,=
 Visual Basic.  Also, must have experience with one or more of=
 the following databases  DB2, UNIX, Oracle, Sybase, Informix,=
 SQL Server. Object Oriented technologies experience a plus. =
 Project management / lead experience is a plus, but not=
 necessary. Inline for promotion to technology manager.

Job #2004: Information Systems Programmer/Analyst
Must have 2 to 7 years experience developing software=
 applications. Must have a programming background applying skills=
 in design, implementation, maintenance, and operation of=
 technology systems with a strong focus on technical elements of=
 systems development process. Roles include: designing coding,=
 and testing the functional components of information systems.=
 Must have experience with one or more of the following=
 programming laguages: C, C++, PowerBuilder, COBOL, Visual Basic.=
  Also, must have experience with one or more of the following=
 databases  DB2, UNIX, Oracle, Sybase, Informix, SQL Server. =
 Object Oriented technologies experience a plus. Project=
 management/ Lead experience is a plus, but not necessary. Inline=
 for promotion to technology manager.

COMPENSATION:
Base from 48K to 72K, depending on skills set and experience.=
 Paid straight salary
rate for any time exceeding 40 Hours. On average this overtime=
 usually
accounts for a 15% increase to the base salary.

REQUIRED:
Bachelors or Masters degree. 
95% Travel to projects Monday through Friday, returning on=
 weekends. All travel expenses paid. 
Willing to be based out of Atlanta. Relocation will be paid. 
US Citizenship or Green Card required.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

TO APPLY, SEND THE FOLLOWING VIA EMAIL

1. A copy of your resume, MS Word preferred
2. Your permanent salary requirements
3. When you are available to start
4. Specify US Citizen or Green Card
5. Daytime number where I can call to setup interviews.
6. Job # interested in: 1781 or 2004

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%


If you do not want me to notify you of future opportunities,=
 please let me know.


Tim Bussey   IT Force, Inc.
---------------------------------------------
3390 Peachtree Rd, Suite 300
Atlanta, GA 30326
t:  404/832.3200 x107
f:  404/832.3204

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 09:54:53 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: to Charles Warner
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:46:52 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.64652.0>
References: <<1998Sep29.11044.0>>
Precedence: bulk

I need to know the e-mail address of Charles Warner (warner-criv) i have
a question for him, but lost his address. someone know it? charles you
out there?

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 10:23:55 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: CM Smith <cmsmith@fast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: cornerette's
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:41:31 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.64131.0>
References: <<1998Sep28.181240.0>>
Precedence: bulk

CM Smith wrote:
> 
> I am working on some cornerette's for a friend at work. I found the
> pattern in an old supply book.  They  have the oak frames in the book..
> However, now that I am looking for the frames, none of the suppliers
> sell them anymore. Now I have a problem, I have the cornerettes
> completed and have no frame to put them in. My husband and I are trying
> to figure out a way to make them, but we are having a difficult time
> trying to get the glass to stay in the frame, since it will be free
> hanging. Can someone please give us some suggestions?
> 
> thanks
> chris
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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most of the times when i see those, wire loops are used. attach them to
a seam 2 per side. they should be 90 degrees to the window. then you can
attach it with screws.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
----
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 10:29:33 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Teresa Ross <tmr@oxford.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: copper foiling
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:43:22 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.64322.0>
References: <<1998Sep27.162016.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Teresa Ross wrote:
> 
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I'm having trouble with copper foiling. I can't get the copper to stick =
> to the glass. I haven't done it for a while but don't recall having this =
> trouble before.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> teresa ross
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
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that could be a part of the problem, not doing it for a while. the foil
can loose it's tack after a while. you may be wearing lotion on your
hands and it's getting on the glass. or the glass may not be clean of
oils, or glass dust, or it could be damp in spots.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 11:08:11 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: Pam, stepping stone molds
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:07:38 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.2738.0>
References: <<199809290546.BAA14812@mime3.prodigy.com>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

You can also use potted plant drip catchers.  They are a little soft
when filled with concrete, but just carry them on a piece of wood and
the bottoms won't bow.
Concrete does not stick to plastic, so any plastic bowl will work.  One
of my favorite shapes is a rectangle.  The mold is the bottom of a
recipe card holder that I got free in the mail.  Visit your local
Salvation army and get old tupperware.  Loaf pans are perfect for
bricks, 8" round and square cakes pans work well.  And this summer is
you want something unusual buy the bucket, shovel, and sand molds they
sell to kids to play with on the beach.
The drip catchers work especially well since the sides are slanted.  It
makes for easier pop out.  Also they are measured by their rim diameter.
So a 16" round drip catcher makes a 14" round stone.
And the people that I have read that complain about vaseline darkening
the concrete.  I am wondering if maybe they are being too generous with
their vaseline.  All you need is the barest of a slime.
Hope that helps
Shirley B

BOB DUCHESNEAU wrote:
> 
> >>I ordered 2x 14" molds from Nunnikoven today for $22 a piece.
> total of
> $50 for 2 with shipping and handling.
> 
> I could just cry.  I looked at Meridith's online catalog tonight and
> saw
> they have them for $14.95.
> Guess I found a new place to shop....later.  Man, I wish I had seen
> this
> sooner.
> 
> Tulsa Suzanne<<
> 
> Oh dear, should have told you sooner. Why buy expensive molds when
> you can make them for pennies.
> 
> For a round mold make or buy a plywood round of the desired size and
> then use plastic bender board nailed on to make the sides.
> 
> For a square or rectangle do the same thing or substitute wood for
> the sides.
> 
> For a hex etc. do the same except that it is necessary to cut the
> correct angle for each of the sides.
> 
> Mix a little fine cement and run it into the seam between the bottom
> of the mold and the sides to form a slight radias. This makes an edge
> that is less likely to chip in the molded product.
> 
> Take some of your concrete mix and put it through a sifter to make
> topping mix. Use the rest of the bag for the basic stone.
> 
> Several years ago when molds for stepping stones first came out I
> bought a set to evaluate them as an item to stock. Don't carry them
> but do give out the above advice. Don't make any easy money from them
> either. :-(
> 
> Bob
> 
> ____
> Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026
> Want to talk glass? Join E-mail list:     glass@intrastar.net
> ----
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xŸ>"3
�
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 11:27:00 1998
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X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: RE: Bio
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:57:46 +0000
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Ah yes!
I forgot the pretty, rather fetching flower tiara, Patrick stuck on 
his bald head with Superglu ( is that same as GE4000?), 'cause nobody 
sends him Bios.
Have at least established that Sandra Gustafson IS a real Swede 
Feels less lonely now  :->. The Swedes will come and get you one day 
Patrick!! A New,  Nice and strong white coat awaits you. Toby ripped 
the other one and is growling for MORE of what was inside.....
Watch out for the wasps under those flowers, Patrick.....they might 
even explore the tu-tu.
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

The demented Irishman wrote:
> Hey ... Hey... you forgot the flower tiara. I have to stick it on with GE
> 4000 but that's OK. Useless? My neighbors don't think so. They have started
> to sell tickets. Quick more bios before they become millionaires and move.
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 11:37:43 1998
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From: Bob the Dinosaur <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
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Subject: Common Ground
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:49:33 -0400
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Either my mailperson is faster than the rest, or people don't read their
magazines. I have had the latest edition of Common Ground for a few
days, and have been waiting for people to comment about our own Mike
Savad being on the cover and featured article. Yeah, Mike!

-- 
Adults are obsolete children
		Theodore Geisel

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 11:44:51 1998
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From: Bob the Dinosaur <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: cornerette's
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:53:07 -0400
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Organization: Cox's Mower Service
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/What is a cornerette???

CM Smith wrote:
> 
> I am working on some cornerette's for a friend at work. Can someone please give us some suggestions?
> 
> thanks
> chris

-- 
Adults are obsolete children
		Theodore Geisel

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 11:53:33 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
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Subject: Re:  cornerette's
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Oh Carol,
Don't do that to me!!!
Now have to clean up my key-board that got a great blast of tea all 
over it, as I choked.
Yeah! ME too, What IS a cornerette??? Little corner???? Doesn't make 
sense (But then, neither does our poor demented Patrick....).
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
> >
> >>I am working on some cornerette's for a friend at work. [...]
> >
> >Uhhhhhhhhh...... what's a cornerette?
> >
> 
> Sparks...I think that's a musical instrument in the band that Patrick dances
> to in his tutu! <g>
> 
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 12:00:50 1998
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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Consignment, Wholesale for Suzanne
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:28:35 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.42835.0>
References: <<3610E289.504F@ix.netcom.com>>
Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited
Precedence: bulk

Hi Suzanne in Tulsa wrote me:

Do you sell your stones all yourself?  Do you do any consignment, or
sell to any shops/garden centers?  I am wondering what kind of
percentage they require, and if they let *you* set the *price* limit on
their retail price?


Suzanne,

Well I'm breaking down and buying the catalog. It's just something I can't
pass up. That's an average price for a catalog too. The Gare and Doc
Holliday catalogs are spendy too but you get a nice catalog that is worth
the money.

I sell the stones myself, craft fairs, online and am getting into garden
shops this coming season. I wanted to diversify my product before going into
the garden shops. Meaning, not only stones but fountains, planters and home
decor. I like to create all sorts of things with all sorts of materials,
glass is just one of my mediums. Now consignment, I'm telling you is tricky.
My advice on consignment:

Know who your dealing with, the shop atmosphere, the owners, get references
maybe from another person who is in the shop. Get a feel for the shop and
for the shop owners. Make sure communication is good between you and them.
Make sure all paper work is in order, signed by both you and the owner. This
way you limit your chances on getting taken.

Consignment fee's range anywhere from 25% low to 60% high. Yeah, there are
those few who do consignments for 50 to 60%. Don't get over anxious to get
into a shop and sign a consignment fee that you don't feel comfortable with.
60% for me is not comfortable that is a rip off, so don't feel the need to
get into a shop so bad that you give up the money aspect, it's not worth it.

I will usually do consignment if it is 25% and the store is in my area. That
way I can check on my products whenever I want to and restock easily. And I
have physical contact with the shop so I know how things are going. This
business is tough, very tough.

But this strengthens the need to succeed. And it sounds like you have the
hunger for success, so you will be successful. And it also sounds like you
need a life change. Meaning you are at the time in your life when change
will bring happiness and growth. Stay with those feelings and do what you
love to do in life and you will be successful, mentally and physically.

Christie Wood is an excellent resource here. She has written an excellent
article on wholesale pricing. This article is in Common Ground Glass, summer
1998, and has been reprinted in one other magazine that I know of, The
Saponifier a (soap makers information resource). This will give you a very
good idea how to utilize the wholesale market and how to do it in a
successful way.

Now for the life of me I can't find that great wholesale article in the
archives at bungi. I searched until my head hit my monitor and I was
reminded that my eyes were feeling like they did in my "purple haze" days.
And the Summer 98 issue of Common Ground maybe Albert can comment on. I
haven't received my copy and it's not on the IGGA site. It's gone forever in
my computer too, either that or lost!

So someone please do me a favor and repost that wholesale article by
Christie. See I would ask her to do it but this would be my second time in 2
weeks that this has come up *s*. And you will get alot of advice as you know
from the wonderful members of bungi as always!!

See you,

Pam *sm*






*********************************
Moswood Mountain Limited
Pamela Burns-Tappan
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html

Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

Join our live glass chat!
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.igga.org/


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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 12:21:53 1998
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "'Tim Bussey - IT Force, Inc.'" <tbussey@itforce.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Hiring 70 IT Consultants For Big 6 Consulting Firm in Atlanta
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:45:22 -0400
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Precedence: bulk

Mr. Tim Bussey:

This message was sent to a glass related discussion list. I am a member of 
the list and do not particularly want to see non-glass related posts to 
this group. I doubt that anyone will be interested in the positions you 
describe.

Please remove "glass@bungi.com" from your mailing list. I'm sure that as a 
reputable company, you will honor my request.

Thankyou,

Linda Campbell

----------
From: 	Tim Bussey - IT Force, Inc.[SMTP:tbussey@itforce.com]
Sent: 	Tuesday, September 29, 1998 11:19 AM
To: 	glass@bungi.com
Subject: 	Hiring 70 IT Consultants For Big 6 Consulting Firm in Atlanta

Hi, I have two positions that I feel might be in line with your=
 skills. My client, a Big 6 consulting firm here in Atlanta is=
clipped........
6. Job # interested in: 1781 or 2004


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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 12:30:02 1998
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From: "Karen Klomparens" <17b6sfj8@softhouse.com>
To: "Stained glass chat list" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: RE: Cornerettes & Glass 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:28:52 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.102852.0>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDEBB5.7AF7A5A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Try setting the glass in the wood frame and tapeing it with duct tape in =
a couple of places temporarily, then use clear adhesive silicone and run =
a small bead where the glass meets the frame.  Let it set up following =
the silicone's instructions before you remove the tape.  This will work =
if the pieces aren't super heavy.  I saw this on Vicki Payne's TV show.

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDEBB5.7AF7A5A0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Try setting the glass in the wood =
frame and=20
tapeing it with duct tape in a couple of places temporarily, then use =
clear=20
<U>adhesive</U> silicone and run a small bead where the glass meets the=20
frame.&nbsp; Let it set up following the silicone's instructions before =
you=20
remove the tape.&nbsp; This will work if the pieces aren't super =
heavy.&nbsp; I=20
saw this on Vicki Payne's TV show.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDEBB5.7AF7A5A0--

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 13:01:54 1998
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:41:40 -0700 (PDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19)
X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Bio.. Gustafson!!!!!!
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 20:28:55 +0100
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.212855.0>
References: <<199809282343.AAA01699@saturn.nildram.co.uk>>
Precedence: bulk

In message <199809282343.AAA01699@saturn.nildram.co.uk>, Toby
<toby@northlights.co.uk> writes
>Well Sandra,
>Welcome to the Madhatters Party!
>
>I think I might have a PARTICULAR reason to welcome you, since your 
>name most definitely reveals a SWEDISH connection.
>I am so terribly lonely here and nobody CARES!! ....And NOBODY 
>listens to a poor little pityful little Swedish voice in the 
>Wilderness.... They ALL tarnish me with  the BRITISH brush..... 
>just because I HAPPEN to live in UK
>S O B!!!
>EliSabeth 'n Toby in UK
>
And not everyone with an English lst name name (Richard) is so.  This
USAn living in Glasgow comes (in heritage terms) from Sweden via Kansas
the the UK
Steve

>Sandra wrote:
>> Hi Everyone!
>> I am new to the list and to glass also.  Pat is being so pitiful that I
>> could not but help him out and send my bio in.
> 
>----
>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
>----
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
----
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 13:25:10 1998
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X-Path: softhouse.com!17b6sfj8
From: "Karen Klomparens" <17b6sfj8@softhouse.com>
To: "Stained glass chat list" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Subject: RE:  Make your own Frames
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:46:16 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.104616.0>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BDEBB7.E98CC020
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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After spending $125 on a oak framing stock form a glass supplier for =
gift I made my husband,  I ordered wood stock at a full service lumber =
yard and made my own.  You can use 1x2's or 2x2's, they come in 6 ft.. =
lengths, are much cheaper per piece if you can afford a bundle of 9 =
instead of just one 6 foot piece.  Use a router on the edges and to make =
the channel.  If you don't have a router, borrow one or have a wood shop =
shape them for you.  I didn't mind spending the big money on husband, =
but for resale you have to keep your costs down.  Karen K.

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BDEBB7.E98CC020
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>After spending $125 on a oak framing =
stock form=20
a glass supplier for gift I made my husband,&nbsp; I ordered wood stock =
at a=20
full service lumber yard and made my own.&nbsp; You can use 1x2's or =
2x2's, they=20
come in 6 ft.. lengths, are much cheaper per piece if you can afford a =
bundle of=20
9 instead of just one 6 foot piece.&nbsp; Use a router on the edges and =
to make=20
the channel.&nbsp; If you don't have a router, borrow one or have a wood =
shop=20
shape them for you.&nbsp; I didn't mind spending the big money on =
husband, but=20
for resale you have to keep your costs down.&nbsp; Karen=20
K.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BDEBB7.E98CC020--

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 13:30:34 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!MISGLAS
From: MISGLAS@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: phone number
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:29:31 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.192931.0>
Precedence: bulk

a while back someone posted the phone # for Fransiscan Glass Co.  Could you
please repeat it, as I must have written it down wrong.  I'm looking for
wholesale cos. that will sell to a small studio.  Thanks, all.  Kathi P.
----
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 13:57:13 1998
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X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen
From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: sick people with sick attachments
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:08:18 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <199809292008.NAA26637@ns2.vphos.net>
Precedence: bulk

I would like to share with you all something I found out yesterday.
I recieved a message quite a few months ago from someone who sent me an
attachment. As I didn't know what it was I didn't open it. It came to me as
att2(3)exe and I now know it to be called Trojan.
As my computer is old now I didn't have a good virus checker, which I do
now... as of yesterday. It is an awful feeling to see something like and now
know it's been sitting in your computer. And some one has sent it out to you.
Cindy

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 14:05:00 1998
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X-Path: pobox.com!Northernlights
From: Northernlights <Northernlights@pobox.com>
To: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>, glass <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Hiring 70 IT Consultants For Big 6 Consulting Firm in Atlanta
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:07:31 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.10731.0>
References: <<1998Sep29.94522.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Linda, good note to Mr. Bussey...glad you wrote it because I really don't think
he wants ALL of us here on Bungi to be e-mailing any flares to him
directly....might crash his poor old server!

Linda Campbell wrote:

> Mr. Tim Bussey:
>
> This message was sent to a glass related discussion list. I am a member of
> the list and do not particularly want to see non-glass related posts to
> this group. I doubt that anyone will be interested in the positions you
> describe.
>
> Please remove "glass@bungi.com" from your mailing list. I'm sure that as a
> reputable company, you will honor my request.
>
> Thankyou,
>
> Linda Campbell
>
> ----------
> From:   Tim Bussey - IT Force, Inc.[SMTP:tbussey@itforce.com]
> Sent:   Tuesday, September 29, 1998 11:19 AM
> To:     glass@bungi.com
> Subject:        Hiring 70 IT Consultants For Big 6 Consulting Firm in Atlanta
>
> Hi, I have two positions that I feel might be in line with your=
>  skills. My client, a Big 6 consulting firm here in Atlanta is=
> clipped........
> 6. Job # interested in: 1781 or 2004
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



----
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 14:41:40 1998
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19)
X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Common Ground
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:02:30 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.7230.0>
Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited
Precedence: bulk

Bob, what are you trying to do. Good grief, I haven't received my issue
yet and your teasing me with the cover?? I could scream *s*. Mike's on
the cover!! Well while you have yours and your willing to share, let us
all in on it will you *s*. Start from page 1 please.

Albert I need my copy quick, or I might do something drastic, like buy
another catalog!!

Pam *sm*



--
*********************************
Moswood Mountain Limited
Pamela Burns-Tappan
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html

Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

Join our live glass chat!
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.igga.org/


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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 15:10:26 1998
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X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray
From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: message for glenna??
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:45:13 -0700
Message-ID: <199809292145.OAA16639@oceanus.island.net>
Precedence: bulk

Hi Glenna...there seems to be an increase recently in the amount of garbage
coming through bungi...do you have any idea where this is coming from or if
there's anything you can do about it?  It's annoying...and I make a point of
staying off the web so I don't end up with unsolicted junk mail.  I'd hate
to think that someone on the group has put bungi on one of those spam mail
lists.


Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 15:39:35 1998
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Bob the Dinosaur <shyguy@vdot.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: cornerette's
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:15:31 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.131531.0>
References: <<1998Sep29.7537.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Bob the Dinosaur wrote:
> 
> /What is a cornerette???
> 
> CM Smith wrote:
> >
> > I am working on some cornerette's for a friend at work. Can someone please give us some suggestions?
> >
> > thanks
> > chris
> 
> --
> Adults are obsolete children
>                 Theodore Geisel
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


a cornerete is a large suncatcher that mounts in the corner of a window.
it's a cute accent.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
----
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 15:53:40 1998
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X-Path: fast.net!jlagana
From: "Joe Lagana" <jlagana@fast.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: Stained Glass Software
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:22:14 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.132214.0>
Precedence: bulk

Does anyone know of a good software program for designing Stained Glass
Lamps, panes, etc.

Thanks in advance

Joe

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 17:11:28 1998
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X-Path: t-online.de!Tiffany-Glaskunst
From: Tiffany-Glaskunst@t-online.de (Herbert Luidolt)
To: toby@northlights.co.uk, glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Sorry - History Lesson....!
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:18:12 +0000
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.231812.0>
Precedence: bulk

Hello Toby,
thank you for your letter. It is many to read for me.
I think i need some hours. If i found time,
i answer more (Rest of the letter). 
But on time i have many to work (season beginn)
Thanks, i enjoy the Holiday. Our most Costumer
are in Germany, Switzerland and Austria.
But one in UK (come from Germany), 2 in Spain, 1
in France, 2 in Italy, 2 in Netherlands,
one in Finnland, one in Sweden and one in USA.
The most people there visit our Homepage are from USA.
And it is not realy important for us on time
You have all what you need in USA ;-)
I work on time 70 hours at week. But i know,
i must learn English. But not bevor Spring.

> e-mail . You are free to "burn me" (brennen) on your CD. Just enjoy 
> your holiday and we'll talk when you get back.

Thanks. Our new Version are ready in 2 weeks or so.
Please give me your adress, and i send you a CD.


Thanks and tschau to all, 
herbert


Toby schrieb:
>
> Hey, Herbert!!
> You are supposed to be on HOLIDAY!!!
> Don't worry about what I say.... I'm only teasing you (Patrick will 
> tell you all about this  Horrible Crazy Swede)!!
> However, I WAS serious, when I said that I admired your efforts in 
> overcoming all linguistic odds in communicating!
> Hut auf!!!
> Mach's weiter!!
(...)

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 17:35:30 1998
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19)
X-Path: gjr
From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand)
To: MISGLAS@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: phone number
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:00:07 PDT
Message-ID: <m0zO8ka-0001ItC@daver.bungi.com>
Precedence: bulk

[In the message entitled "phone number" on Sep 29, 15:29, MISGLAS@aol.com writes:]
> a while back someone posted the phone # for Fransiscan Glass Co.  Could you
> please repeat it, as I must have written it down wrong.  I'm looking for
> wholesale cos. that will sell to a small studio.  Thanks, all.  Kathi P.

It's (650) 948 - 6666


-- 
Glenna Rand
gjr@bungi.com
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 18:02:03 1998
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	for rglass-42; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:14:34 -0700 (PDT)
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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: message for glenna??
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 19:11:50 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.151150.0>
References: <<199809292145.OAA16639@oceanus.island.net>>
Precedence: bulk

Carol Swann wrote:
> 
> Hi Glenna...there seems to be an increase recently in the amount of garbage
> coming through bungi...do you have any idea where this is coming from or if
> there's anything you can do about it?  It's annoying...and I make a point of
> staying off the web so I don't end up with unsolicted junk mail.  I'd hate
> to think that someone on the group has put bungi on one of those spam mail
> lists.
> 
> Carol Swann
> Synergy Glass & Creative
> http://www.igga.org/synergy
> seaspray@island.net
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

what kind of garbage? i hav'nt seen any spams on bungi. i've seen quite
a bit on fatcity though.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
----
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 18:29:55 1998
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19)
X-Path: aol.com!Rox4250
From: Rox4250@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
Subject: Fwd: Stained Glass Software
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 19:33:28 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.233328.0>
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--part0_907112008_boundary
Content-ID: <0_907112008@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1>
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this is not my mail and i don't know how it is getting to me

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X-Path: fast.net!jlagana
From: "Joe Lagana" <jlagana@fast.net>
To: <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Stained Glass Software
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:22:14 -0400
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Does anyone know of a good software program for designing Stained Glass
Lamps, panes, etc.

Thanks in advance

Joe

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 18:33:48 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Rox4250
From: Rox4250@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
Subject: Fwd: message for glenna??
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 19:30:10 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.233010.0>
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In a message dated 9/29/98 6:12:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
seaspray@mail.island.net writes:

> 
>  Hi Glenna...there seems to be an increase recently in the amount of 
> garbage
>  coming through bungi...do you have any idea where this is coming from or if
>  there's anything you can do about it?  It's annoying...and I make a point
of
>  staying off the web so I don't end up with unsolicted junk mail.  I'd hate
>  to think that someone on the group has put bungi on one of those spam mail
>  lists.
>  
>  
>  Carol Swann
>  Synergy Glass & Creative
>  http://www.igga.org/synergy
>  seaspray@island.net
>  
>  ----
>  For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>  To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>  Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>  
>  hi this is rox4250 @aol.com and i am getting everybody's mail that you are
sending oout. please delete me from the glass newsletter until this is
resolved. thanks


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From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: message for glenna??
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:45:13 -0700
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Hi Glenna...there seems to be an increase recently in the amount of garbage
coming through bungi...do you have any idea where this is coming from or if
there's anything you can do about it?  It's annoying...and I make a point of
staying off the web so I don't end up with unsolicted junk mail.  I'd hate
to think that someone on the group has put bungi on one of those spam mail
lists.


Carol Swann
Synergy Glass & Creative
http://www.igga.org/synergy
seaspray@island.net

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 18:37:40 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: phone number
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 20:01:56 +0000
Message-ID: <199809300256.WAA04297@vger.vgernet.net>
Precedence: bulk


> a while back someone posted the phone # for Fransiscan Glass Co.  Could you
> please repeat it, as I must have written it down wrong.  I'm looking for
> wholesale cos. that will sell to a small studio.  Thanks, all.  
Kathi P.

Hi, Kathi.

This kind of info's always available (and updated several times a 
week, usually) at http://www.igga.org/  Just click on "1998 Sources 
Guide." For Franciscan, click on "F" and you'll find

Franciscan Glass Company, 100 San Antonio Circle, Mountain View CA
94040. Phone: (415) 948-6666. (800) 229-7728. Fax: (415) 948-0736. 

     A nationwide distributor of stained glass and related tools and
     supplies that has been in business for more than 30 years. They
     stock over 250,000 square feet of glass from more than a dozen
     manufacturers, both domestic and foreign, and continuously
     maintain a catalog of over 100 pages of glass, bevels, tools,
     supplies, kits, books and more. They keep everything in stock at
     all times and ship orders within 24 hours, usually the same day.

Albert
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 18:41:33 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Common Ground
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 20:01:56 +0000
Message-ID: <199809300256.WAA04301@vger.vgernet.net>
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> Albert I need my copy quick, or I might do something drastic, like buy
> another catalog!!

Heaven forfend! <s> Your copy went out with all the others and should 
be arriving shortly. We give 'em to the Post Office on the same day 
of course, but what happens after that is up to whatever rain, dark 
of night, sleet, hail doesn't intervene. 

Albert
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 19:01:54 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Rox4250
From: Rox4250@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
Subject: Fwd: cornerette's
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 19:32:21 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.233221.0>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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In a message dated 9/29/98 6:41:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, esavad@home.net
writes:

> Bob the Dinosaur wrote:
>  > 
>  > /What is a cornerette???
>  > 
>  > CM Smith wrote:
>  > >
>  > > I am working on some cornerette's for a friend at work. Can someone 
> please give us some suggestions?
>  > >
>  > > thanks
>  > > chris
>  > 
>  > --
>  > Adults are obsolete children
>  >                 Theodore Geisel
>  > 
>  > ----
>  > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>  > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>  > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>  
>  
>  a cornerete is a large suncatcher that mounts in the corner of a window.
>  it's a cute accent.
>  
>  ---Mike Savad
>  
>  -- 
>  Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
>  http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
>  9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
>  of the Brilliance Award.
>  ----
>  For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>  To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>  Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>  
>  
>  -------------

this is another letter that i got that i have no idea what it is or is going
on. i have about 40 of these letters. HELP !!!!!!

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X-Path: home.com!esavad
From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: Bob the Dinosaur <shyguy@vdot.net>
Subject: Re: cornerette's
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:15:31 -0400
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Bob the Dinosaur wrote:
> 
> /What is a cornerette???
> 
> CM Smith wrote:
> >
> > I am working on some cornerette's for a friend at work. Can someone please
give us some suggestions?
> >
> > thanks
> > chris
> 
> --
> Adults are obsolete children
>                 Theodore Geisel
> 
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass


a cornerete is a large suncatcher that mounts in the corner of a window.
it's a cute accent.

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
----
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 19:05:21 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Rox4250
From: Rox4250@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
Subject: Fwd: Common Ground
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 19:35:32 EDT
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HELP get all this out of my email box what is wrong?

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X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap
From: Pamela Burns-Tappan <ptap@pacifier.com>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Common Ground
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:02:30 -0700
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Bob, what are you trying to do. Good grief, I haven't received my issue
yet and your teasing me with the cover?? I could scream *s*. Mike's on
the cover!! Well while you have yours and your willing to share, let us
all in on it will you *s*. Start from page 1 please.

Albert I need my copy quick, or I might do something drastic, like buy
another catalog!!

Pam *sm*



--
*********************************
Moswood Mountain Limited
Pamela Burns-Tappan
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html

Proud Member Of:

The Stained Glass Artists
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html

Join our live glass chat!
http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html

The International Guild of Glass Artists
http://www.igga.org/


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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 19:06:35 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon
From: BMarhon@aol.com
To: cpesonen@bcinternet.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: sick people with sick attachments
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 19:33:08 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.23338.0>
Precedence: bulk

Cindy - I feel for you - I had the Michaelangeo virus about five years ago.
Before I knew it I had infected five other computers - I was freelance
bookkeeping at the time and taking files from businesses and bringing them
home to work on them.  All computers had to have their hard drives reformatted
and data restored and cleaned.  It was a nightmare - took weeks.  At least I
wasn't on the net then!

Having a good virus program and keeping it updated by frequently going to the
website of your virus software provider (like Solomon or McAfee) to download
new protection is very critical.

There are a lot of sick people out there, but whoever gave it to you probably
didn't know they had it and passed it on to you innocently.  Let's hope so!

Brenda Marhon


In a message dated 9/29/98 4:59:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
cpesonen@bcinternet.net writes:

<< 
 I would like to share with you all something I found out yesterday.
 I recieved a message quite a few months ago from someone who sent me an
 attachment. As I didn't know what it was I didn't open it. It came to me as
 att2(3)exe and I now know it to be called Trojan.
 As my computer is old now I didn't have a good virus checker, which I do
 now... as of yesterday. It is an awful feeling to see something like and now
 know it's been sitting in your computer. And some one has sent it out to you.
>>
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 19:09:12 1998
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19)
X-Path: aol.com!Rox4250
From: Rox4250@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
Subject: Fwd: Hiring 70 IT Consultants For Big 6 Consulting Firm in Atlanta
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 19:37:24 EDT
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In a message dated 9/29/98 5:06:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Northernlights@pobox.com writes:

> da, good note to Mr. Bussey...glad you wrote it because I really don't think
>  he wants ALL of us here on Bungi to be e-mailing any flares to him
>  directly....might crash his poor old server!
>  
>  Linda Campbell wrote:
>  
>  > Mr. Tim Bussey:
>  >
>  > This message was sent to a glass related discussion list. I am a member
of
>  > the list and do not particularly want to see non-glass related posts to
>  > this group. I doubt that anyone will be interested in the positions you
>  > describe.
>  >
>  > Please remove "glass@bungi.com" from your mailing list. I'm sure that as
a
>  > reputable company, you will honor my request.
>  >
>  > Thankyou,
>  >
>  > Linda Campbell
>  >
>  > ----------
>  > From:   Tim Bussey - IT Force, Inc.[SMTP:tbussey@itforce.com]
>  > Sent:   Tuesday, September 29, 1998 11:19 AM
>  > To:     glass@bungi.com
>  > Subject:        Hiring 70 IT Consultants For Big 6 Consulting Firm in 
> Atlanta
>  >
>  > Hi, I have two positions that I feel might be in line with your=
>  >  skills. My client, a Big 6 consulting firm here in Atlanta is=
>  > clipped........
>  > 6. Job # interested in: 1781 or 2004
>  >
>  > ----
>  > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>  > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>  > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>  
>  
>  
>  ----
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>  To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>  Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>  
>  
>  ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
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>  	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19)
>  X-Path: pobox.com!Northernlights
>  From: Northernlights <Northernlights@pobox.com>
>  To: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>, glass <glass@bungi.com>
>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>  Subject: Re: Hiring 70 IT Consultants For Big 6 Consulting Firm in Atlanta
>  Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:07:31 -0500
>  Message-ID: <1998Sep29.10731.0>
>  References: <<1998Sep29.94522.0>>
>  Precedence: bulk
>  
>  

why is all this mess coming to my email box? 

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X-Path: pobox.com!Northernlights
From: Northernlights <Northernlights@pobox.com>
To: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>, glass <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: Re: Hiring 70 IT Consultants For Big 6 Consulting Firm in Atlanta
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:07:31 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.10731.0>
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Linda, good note to Mr. Bussey...glad you wrote it because I really don't
think
he wants ALL of us here on Bungi to be e-mailing any flares to him
directly....might crash his poor old server!

Linda Campbell wrote:

> Mr. Tim Bussey:
>
> This message was sent to a glass related discussion list. I am a member of
> the list and do not particularly want to see non-glass related posts to
> this group. I doubt that anyone will be interested in the positions you
> describe.
>
> Please remove "glass@bungi.com" from your mailing list. I'm sure that as a
> reputable company, you will honor my request.
>
> Thankyou,
>
> Linda Campbell
>
> ----------
> From:   Tim Bussey - IT Force, Inc.[SMTP:tbussey@itforce.com]
> Sent:   Tuesday, September 29, 1998 11:19 AM
> To:     glass@bungi.com
> Subject:        Hiring 70 IT Consultants For Big 6 Consulting Firm in
Atlanta
>
> Hi, I have two positions that I feel might be in line with your=
>  skills. My client, a Big 6 consulting firm here in Atlanta is=
> clipped........
> 6. Job # interested in: 1781 or 2004
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 19:31:15 1998
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From: Rox4250@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 20:06:45 EDT
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: RE: Bio
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:57:46 +0000
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Ah yes!
I forgot the pretty, rather fetching flower tiara, Patrick stuck on 
his bald head with Superglu ( is that same as GE4000?), 'cause nobody 
sends him Bios.
Have at least established that Sandra Gustafson IS a real Swede 
Feels less lonely now  :->. The Swedes will come and get you one day 
Patrick!! A New,  Nice and strong white coat awaits you. Toby ripped 
the other one and is growling for MORE of what was inside.....
Watch out for the wasps under those flowers, Patrick.....they might 
even explore the tu-tu.
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

The demented Irishman wrote:
> Hey ... Hey... you forgot the flower tiara. I have to stick it on with GE
> 4000 but that's OK. Useless? My neighbors don't think so. They have started
> to sell tickets. Quick more bios before they become millionaires and move.
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 19:33:21 1998
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X-Path: softhouse.com!17b6sfj8
From: "Karen Klomparens" <17b6sfj8@softhouse.com>
To: "Stained glass chat list" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: New to List
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 20:12:42 -0400
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I've been reading the archives now for at least 6 hours- awesome info!  Been
doing glass 2-3 years, more on that when I get my Bio started.  Just wanted
to say what a talented & friendly place I found today.  Be back for sure.


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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 19:34:43 1998
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Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 19:45:25 EDT
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i am getting this email by mistake. i signed up for a newsletter from
glass@bungi.com and since then i have been flooded with other people's email,
but common factor is glass@bungi.com please help me

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X-Path: softhouse.com!17b6sfj8
From: "Karen Klomparens" <17b6sfj8@softhouse.com>
To: "Stained glass chat list" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE:  Make your own Frames
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:46:16 -0400
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------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BDEBB7.E98CC020
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After spending $125 on a oak framing stock form a glass supplier for =
gift I made my husband,  I ordered wood stock at a full service lumber =
yard and made my own.  You can use 1x2's or 2x2's, they come in 6 ft.. =
lengths, are much cheaper per piece if you can afford a bundle of 9 =
instead of just one 6 foot piece.  Use a router on the edges and to make =
the channel.  If you don't have a router, borrow one or have a wood shop =
shape them for you.  I didn't mind spending the big money on husband, =
but for resale you have to keep your costs down.  Karen K.

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BDEBB7.E98CC020
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>After spending $125 on a oak framing =
stock form=20
a glass supplier for gift I made my husband,&nbsp; I ordered wood stock =
at a=20
full service lumber yard and made my own.&nbsp; You can use 1x2's or =
2x2's, they=20
come in 6 ft.. lengths, are much cheaper per piece if you can afford a =
bundle of=20
9 instead of just one 6 foot piece.&nbsp; Use a router on the edges and =
to make=20
the channel.&nbsp; If you don't have a router, borrow one or have a wood =
shop=20
shape them for you.&nbsp; I didn't mind spending the big money on =
husband, but=20
for resale you have to keep your costs down.&nbsp; Karen=20
K.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 19:49:36 1998
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From: Rox4250@aol.com
To: TOSspam@aol.com, glass@bungi.com
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Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 19:49:14 EDT
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X-Path: softhouse.com!17b6sfj8
From: "Karen Klomparens" <17b6sfj8@softhouse.com>
To: "Stained glass chat list" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Cornerettes & Glass 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:28:52 -0400
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Try setting the glass in the wood frame and tapeing it with duct tape in =
a couple of places temporarily, then use clear adhesive silicone and run =
a small bead where the glass meets the frame.  Let it set up following =
the silicone's instructions before you remove the tape.  This will work =
if the pieces aren't super heavy.  I saw this on Vicki Payne's TV show.

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<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
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<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Try setting the glass in the wood =
frame and=20
tapeing it with duct tape in a couple of places temporarily, then use =
clear=20
<U>adhesive</U> silicone and run a small bead where the glass meets the=20
frame.&nbsp; Let it set up following the silicone's instructions before =
you=20
remove the tape.&nbsp; This will work if the pieces aren't super =
heavy.&nbsp; I=20
saw this on Vicki Payne's TV show.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 20:00:24 1998
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X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard
From: Steve Richard <s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk>
To: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Bio.. Gustafson!!!!!!
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 20:28:55 +0100
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.212855.0>
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In message <199809282343.AAA01699@saturn.nildram.co.uk>, Toby
<toby@northlights.co.uk> writes
>Well Sandra,
>Welcome to the Madhatters Party!
>
>I think I might have a PARTICULAR reason to welcome you, since your 
>name most definitely reveals a SWEDISH connection.
>I am so terribly lonely here and nobody CARES!! ....And NOBODY 
>listens to a poor little pityful little Swedish voice in the 
>Wilderness.... They ALL tarnish me with  the BRITISH brush..... 
>just because I HAPPEN to live in UK
>S O B!!!
>EliSabeth 'n Toby in UK
>
And not everyone with an English lst name name (Richard) is so.  This
USAn living in Glasgow comes (in heritage terms) from Sweden via Kansas
the the UK
Steve

>Sandra wrote:
>> Hi Everyone!
>> I am new to the list and to glass also.  Pat is being so pitiful that I
>> could not but help him out and send my bio in.
> 
>----
>As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
>North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
>http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
>----
>----
>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
>To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
Steve Richard
Verrier Art Glass Ltd
s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 20:05:22 1998
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	(Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19)
X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: LuvArtGlas@aol.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: History of Stained Glass...On the net?
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:01:19 -0700 (PDT)
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References: <<1998Sep29.0187.0>>
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Suzan:  You are wanting to show that stained glass was used to communicate
to people who could not read.  Try any book by Malcolm Miller.  This was
one of the emphasis he made when we toured Chartres Cathedral.  Each
window was comprised of several smaller windows that depicted different
scriptural stories from the Bible.  It was definitely used to communicate
to people who could not read the Bible.  Peggy

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 20:13:29 1998
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: re:StLuke
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:49:15 -0700 (PDT)
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Elizabeth A:  I enjoyed your research on St. Luke.  Thanks for sharing it.
I have had occasion to develop two iconographs and it is an interesting
process.  Other windows in our church were made by Judson Studios in Los
Angles and when they installed the windows they also submitted the
iconography describing the windows.  Really interesting.  

Pe;ggy

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 20:23:09 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: cornerette's
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:44:56 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.114456.0>
References: <<1998Sep29.131531.0>>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

If this be the case.  My pattern book had the best idea.  Mount a cheap
curtain rod.  The type that slide inside one another and are curved on
the end.  Cut the staight part to fit in the window sill.  Then you
hammer it in place with the open slit down and just slide you stained
glass peice in.  This way you can change your corner piece with seasonal
patterns.
Hope that is what you were talking about.
Shirley B

M. Savad wrote:
> 
> Bob the Dinosaur wrote:
> >
> > /What is a cornerette???
> >
> > CM Smith wrote:
> > >
> > > I am working on some cornerette's for a friend at work. Can someone please give us some suggestions?
> > >
> > > thanks
> > > chris
> >
> > --
> > Adults are obsolete children
> >                 Theodore Geisel
> >
> > ----
> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> > To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> 
> a cornerete is a large suncatcher that mounts in the corner of a window.
> it's a cute accent.
> 
> ---Mike Savad
> 
> --
> Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
> 9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
> of the Brilliance Award.
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

-- 
xŸ>"3
�
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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 20:58:04 1998
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From: Dinosaur Bob <shyguy@vdot.net>
To: "glass@bungi.com" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Common Ground
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 22:30:43 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.183043.0>
References: <<1998Sep29.7230.0>>
Organization: Cox's Mower Service
Precedence: bulk

Well as another tease, there's a 'ghost edited' version of my Bungi
diatribes about the Glass Lovers weekend, also known as the 'Yough' trip.
Melanie asked me to do a more proper write up, which I never got around to
doing, so she put the context of my emails in this edition. It is under the
byline of 'Carl Childers', one of my many pseudonyms used during recurring
identity crisees (what's the multiple of 'crisis'?) . Sorry Ms Dunstan, the
iguana ate my homework.

Pamela Burns-Tappan wrote:

> Bob, what are you trying to do. Good grief, I haven't received my issue
> yet and your teasing me with the cover?? I could scream *s*. Mike's on
> the cover!! Well while you have yours and your willing to share, let us
> all in on it will you *s*. Start from page 1 please.
> --
> *********************************
> Moswood Mountain Limited
> Pamela Burns-Tappan
> http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html
>
> Proud Member Of:
>
> The Stained Glass Artists
> http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html
>
> Join our live glass chat!
> http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/chat.html
>
> The International Guild of Glass Artists
> http://www.igga.org/
>
> ----
> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass



--
'Every (person) must decide whether to walk in the light of creative
altruism or the darkness of selfishness. This is the judgement. Life's
most persistent and urgent question is "What are you doing for
others?' "Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.


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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 21:55:05 1998
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From: "suzy@comcat.com" <suzy@ComCAT.COM>
To: "Karen Klomparens" <17b6sfj8@softhouse.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Subject: Re: New to List
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 98 22:49:43 -0400
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>I've been reading the archives now for at least 6 hours- awesome info!  Been
>doing glass 2-3 years, more on that when I get my Bio started.  Just wanted
>to say what a talented & friendly place I found today.  Be back for sure.
>
>
Karen,
Better send that bio in soon, or someone named "Patrick" in Texas will 
find himself without a gnomen, and that is a serious matter!

Suzanne

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From owner-glass Tue Sep 29 22:40:43 1998
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From: "E. Oran Brigham" <oranbrigham@mail.utexas.edu>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Installing Stained-Glass Window into Stone Window Frame
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 22:11:19 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <l03020900b23719a6dff1@[128.83.46.167]>
Precedence: bulk

I'm a stained-glass newbie.
This is only my second project since taking a "beginners" class.
Need to install a quatrefoil-shaped stainedglass window into a
cantera-stone window frame.
There is already a premanent clear-glass pane embedded between the two
pieces of cantera stone.
Would I place the stained-glass window an inch or so from the clear-glass pane?
What would I use to anchor the stained-glass window since edges are stone?
Do I need to worry condensation?


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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 00:11:19 1998
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From: Suzanne <gunnx4@ix.netcom.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: re: Lead
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 01:55:09 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep29.20559.0>
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> Hi All,
> 
> There are a couple of things that haven't been touched upon.  There are
> supliments available to help rid the body of excess lead.  One is Apple
> Pectin, and the other is Fundimental Sulfur.
> 
> I find the Apple Pectin is hard on my stomach but I can take it at
> night. The Fundimental Sulfur has no side effect.  Another name for
> Fundimental Sulfur is MSM.  These are all available at most health food
> stores.
> 
> TWLARRY
> 

Isnt *all* lead excessive in our bodies? 
 My 2 yr old was tested for lead, because our house was 74 yrs old.  He
tested a bit high.  The doctor didnt mention that there was anything to
help remove it from your system! This kind of stuff drives me crazy.  
 He has since been retested.  His levels have dropped.  I now filter all
our drinking/cooking etc...water.  I hadnt started back into doing
stained glass yet at the time, but because I was breastfeeding, I asked
to be tested also, to make sure he was not getting lead in my milk.  I
had a very small amount of lead.
Now that I am doing stained glass again, I am very careful to not allow
him in my stained glass workshop. 
When I took my stained glass classes in the early '80's the *only*
safety equipment that was ever mentioned was protective eyewear.  Never
did anyone mention the need to wear a mask while grinding...etc...
And I never did, until recently. 

Tulsa Suzanne
-- 
~The most wasted day of all is that on which you have not laughed~
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 02:45:51 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: Rox4250@aol.com
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Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:14:09 +0000
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Precedence: bulk

Dear Rox....whoever you are,

Glass@Bungi is a stained glass discussion list. It doesn't publish 
printed Newsletters (to my knowledge).
It means therefore that you are sitting within a circle of loads of 
other people to hear what everybody are saying and you can jump in 
and make your comment, answer or ask a question.

So you MUST have subscribed to the list, in the first place, to 
"hear" the discussions.  So the mail you are receiving IS your mail.

If this is a problem to you, then there is a simple solution:
just send ONE single e-mail back and address it to glass@bungi.com 
and in the subject window JUST write the word UNSUBSCRIBE.  It might 
take a day or two, but  you should very quickly see the back of us.

May I also recommend that you don't send your e-mails in MIME format, 
it leaves everybody with an awful lot of "garbage" before  they find 
your own actual message hidden away in there. A lot of people don't 
bother, they just delete.

So don't get yourself wound up (or as they say Overe Here "get your 
knickers in a twist"). The answer and solution is quite easy.
Good luck.
E'nT in UK
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 03:49:48 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: re: Lead
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 05:39:16 +0000
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> Isnt *all* lead excessive in our bodies? 

Yes, quite right.

> Now that I am doing stained glass again, I am very careful to not allow
> him in my stained glass workshop. 

Very wise. You don't let him play in the street, either.

> When I took my stained glass classes in the early '80's the *only*
> safety equipment that was ever mentioned was protective eyewear.  Never
> did anyone mention the need to wear a mask while grinding...etc...

Most retailers and many wholesalers/manufacturers are afraid that if 
they even mention safety their customers will leave for parts 
unknown. They just don't seem to realize that their customers will 
*appreciate the concern shown by imparting health and safety 
information.

Albert
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 04:15:29 1998
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From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Installing Stained-Glass Window into Stone Window Frame
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 05:39:17 +0000
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> This is only my second project since taking a "beginners" class.
> Need to install a quatrefoil-shaped stainedglass window into a
> cantera-stone window frame.
> There is already a premanent clear-glass pane embedded between the two
> pieces of cantera stone.
> Would I place the stained-glass window an inch or so from the clear-glass pane?
> What would I use to anchor the stained-glass window since edges are stone?
> Do I need to worry condensation?

You could use an "isothermal" glazing, which means the stained glass 
would be installed in a steel frame with "legs" that are embedded in 
the stone. Because the panel itself would be 1.5" to 2" away from the 
clear glass, air will be able to move freely and no condensation will 
form.

This is an installation technique that will have to be done by 
someone with a great deal of experience, though.

Albert
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 05:52:04 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Bio.. Gustafson!!!!!!
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:17:03 +0000
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Hoorray, Hoorray!!

....Another Swede!
Watch out Patrick! Get busy with those Bio's! Or you won't just have 
Toby Tobias howling for Irish Stew, but a whole gang of Viking  
marauders coming after you!! (....and perhaps after Christie Wood 
too - come to think of it....) Ain't Life sweet!!!
Teehee!
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

Steve Richard (in Glasgow, UK) wrote
> And not everyone with an English lst name name (Richard) is so.  This
> USAn living in Glasgow comes (in heritage terms) from Sweden via Kansas
> the the UK
> Steve
> 
 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 06:13:40 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Installing Stained-Glass Window into Stone Window Frame
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:17:03 +0000
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Hi All,

I mulled over this question for a while. I was tempted to keep my big 
mouth shut. Fortunately, Albert replied far more delicately and 
diplomatically, than I (most likely) would be able to do.

This is definitely NOT a beginners project, not even what I would 
term an "intermediate" project. From your description, this sounds 
much more like something I would most strongly advise ANY beginner 
AGAINST to attempt as a SECOND project. I hope I won't offend you (or 
anyone else) when I say that I think you should put this project "on 
ice" for quite some time until you have acquired much more experience 
how to handle not just the glass, but also the shapes and the 
particular environment into which to fit this quatrefuille form into 
stone.
 My humble opinion
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

The question:
> > This is only my second project since taking a "beginners" class.
> > Need to install a quatrefoil-shaped stainedglass window into a
> > cantera-stone window frame.
> > There is already a premanent clear-glass pane embedded between the two
> > pieces of cantera stone.
> > Would I place the stained-glass window an inch or so from the clear-glass pane?
> > What would I use to anchor the stained-glass window since edges are stone?
> > Do I need to worry condensation?

to which Albert replied:
> You could use an "isothermal" glazing, which means the stained glass 
> would be installed in a steel frame with "legs" that are embedded in 
> the stone. Because the panel itself would be 1.5" to 2" away from the 
> clear glass, air will be able to move freely and no condensation will 
> form.
> 
> This is an installation technique that will have to be done by 
> someone with a great deal of experience, though.
> 
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 07:20:40 1998
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From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Re : THIS IS NOT MY MAIL, WHAT IS GOING ON?
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:52:12 +0100
Message-ID: <1998Sep30.155212.0>
Precedence: bulk

Rox, welcome to bungi - dont panic.  
All these peculiar messages are just chitchat and some are part of a running
joke between members of the bungi group, and are generally accepted by the
majority as being part of the fun of being in the group.
I usually read them, chuckle at the funny bits and move on to the next message.
We seem to be going through one of those odd periods where the messages are
more about personalities and jokes than serious stained glass stuff -
perhaps the weather or the time of year? - and some of our  US members are
just getting over the visit of hurricane Georges so can be expected to be a
bit frivolous (sp)
But often they do include interesting tips connected with stained glass.
Though we are a collection of vastly different people we all have the same
common interest in and love of (addiction to?) stained glass in all its
forms, so if you have any problems you need help with please post a question
and you will be amazed at how helpful and supportive everyone is.
Regards
Elizabeth
Bournemouth Stained Glass
http://www.stainedglass.co.uk


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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 07:50:42 1998
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From: "Karen Klomparens" <17b6sfj8@softhouse.com>
To: "Stained glass chat list" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: Second project
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:11:01 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep30.6111.0>
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Sorry, I have to agree with Toby.  Sounds much too difficult for a second
piece even though I have to admire your desire for the challenge.




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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 08:28:09 1998
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> Sorry, I have to agree with Toby.  Sounds much too difficult for a second
> piece even though I have to admire your desire for the challenge.
> 
> 

I must agree as well.  With just three years experience at the craft 
I'd hesitate to tackle that project.  Could it wait until you have 
more experience?

Shiela
 
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 08:57:37 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles
From: "Christie A. Wood" <Ensembles@compuserve.com>
To: Bungi <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Stained Glass Software
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:46:44 -0400
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Message text written by "Joe Lagana"
>Does anyone know of a good software program for designing Stained Glass
Lamps, panes, etc.<

I have been using "The Glass Eye" by Dragonfly Software for =

a year now.  I do like it a lot, especially since they offer the
bevels already made up now.

Dragonfly Software
Michael Wilk
10 Crestwood Dr.
San Rafael, CA 94901-1120
phone/fax 415-455-9911
email: glasseye@dfly.com or wilk@dfly.com
http://www.dfly.com

Christie A. Wood
Art Glass Ensembles, 4013 Skippack Pike, Bldg B,
P.O. Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 09:27:55 1998
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From: "Karen Klomparens" <17b6sfj8@softhouse.com>
To: "Stained glass chat list" <glass@bungi.com>
Subject: RE: The Bio Close To Ohio
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:43:14 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep30.74314.0>
Precedence: bulk

Suzanne
I'ts a done deed!
Karen K.


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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 09:50:42 1998
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X-Path: erols.com!nadinesfolly
From: Nadine Beth Schneider <nadinesfolly@erols.com>
To: Glass Enthusiasts <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
Subject: test
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:04:35 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep30.8435.0>
Organization: Custom Art Glass Studio
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------F0F591A285DEF153AFE2675F
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sorry for the inconvenience, but I'm told
that my messages are coming out blank and
I'm trying to change it. . .so far, not 
successfully!
           Nadine
--------------F0F591A285DEF153AFE2675F
Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;
 name="nadinesfolly.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for Nadine Beth Schneider
Content-Disposition: attachment;
 filename="nadinesfolly.vcf"

begin:vcard
n:Schneider;Nadine Beth
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
org:Nadine's Folly Art Glass Studio
version:2.1
email;internet:nadinesfolly@erols.com
title:www.nadinesfolly.com
x-mozilla-cpt:;0
fn:Nadine Beth Schneider
end:vcard


--------------F0F591A285DEF153AFE2675F--

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 10:27:35 1998
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X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  Re: Bio.. Gustafson!!!!!!
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:12:46 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep30.171246.0>
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In a message dated 9/30/98 2:58:10 PM, toby@northlights.co.uk wrote:

>Watch out Patrick! Get busy with those Bio's! Or you won't just have 
>Toby Tobias howling for Irish Stew, but a whole gang of Viking  
>marauders coming after you!! (....and perhaps after Christie Wood 
>too - come to think of it....) Ain't Life sweet!!!

I'd be careful around Christie if I were you, she'll sick her 4 cats on you
(and maybe the real mean "junkyard-dog-eating cat" across the street too!)


Sparks
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 10:54:58 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  Re:  cornerette's
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:12:43 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep30.171243.0>
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In a message dated 9/29/98 4:52:20 PM, seaspray@mail.island.net wrote:

>>Uhhhhhhhhh...... what's a cornerette?
>>
>
>Sparks...I think that's a musical instrument in the band that Patrick dances
>to in his tutu! <g>

Hmmmmmmm....... I do remember seeing a very odd-looking wind instrument in one
of those Dover or Hart "picture books for collage/decoupage" - the body of the
thing was actually constructed with several right angles! maybe that's
it........


Sparks
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 10:58:50 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  Common Ground
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:12:41 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep30.171241.0>
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In a message dated 9/29/98 7:38:45 PM, shyguy@vdot.net wrote:

>I have had the latest edition of Common Ground for a few
>days, and have been waiting for people to comment about our own Mike
>Savad being on the cover and featured article. Yeah, Mike!

I saw it up at Christie's. Mike, you're demented! Keep up the wild 'n' crazy
work!


Sparks
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 11:21:33 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: Rox4250@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  THIS IS NOT MY MAIL, WHY AM I GETTING IT
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:12:49 EDT
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Not to fret, this is indeed the wild world of "bungi," the stained-glass
artists' e-mail list.

We seem to be collectively a bit silly these days (colleagues who have become
friends *do* get that way sometimes!), but as far as I can see, the list is
functioning normally (except for that misplaced computer-programming help-
wanted ad).

Ordinarily the group tends to stay much more on topic than we are right now.
We'll get the silliness out of our system soon and go back to the truly
important issues of life, like how to get foil to stick to glass, how to cut
tight inside curves, etc. etc...... Hope you'll hang in there with us!


Sparks
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 11:24:03 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  Re: Hiring 70 IT Consultants For Big 6 Consulting Firm in Atlanta
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:12:47 EDT
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In a message dated 9/29/98 10:06:05 PM, Northernlights@pobox.com wrote:

>Linda, good note to Mr. Bussey...glad you wrote it because I really don't
think
>he wants ALL of us here on Bungi to be e-mailing any flares to him
>directly....might crash his poor old server!

OTOH, that might not be such a bad idea........ heh heh heh........ Gee, I
wonder if there's a way for Elisabeth to e-mail him some nice ripe canine
digestive byproducts, size extra-large? THAT would get his attention!


Sparks
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 11:29:29 1998
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From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  Po little ole Swede
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:12:42 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep30.171242.0>
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In a message dated 9/29/98 3:22:51 PM, Ensembles@compuserve.com wrote:

>Message text written by "Elisabeth & Toby"
>
>>I am so terribly lonely here and nobody CARES!! ....And NOBODY =
>>listens to a poor little pityful little Swedish voice in the =
>>Wilderness.... They ALL tarnish me with  the BRITISH brush..... =
>>just because I HAPPEN to live in UK
>
>Oy!  What a kvetcher.  Po little ole thang.  Well, baby,
>we care, no matter what your ethnic background and/or
>place of residence.
>
>
>Christie A. Wood (who isn't Swedish, Jewish, Brit, etc.)
>(but who is a Southern American living in the Philadelphia
>area and want to return to New Zealand someday)

Well, we purt' near got all the bases covered, ain't we honeychile?


Sparks
from central and southern California via northern West Virginia, western
Pennsylvania, east Texas, central Kentucky, and now southeastern Pennsylvania
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 11:55:02 1998
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From: CncptThnkr@aol.com
To: Glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: is cornerettes a technical term?
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:58:56 EDT
Message-ID: <1998Sep30.165856.0>
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Hey guys,

Personally have not yet completed my stained glass corner pieces for the
windows, but have every intention of getting them done this winter. (Please
remind me now and then, ok?)   I saw some at an art show that had been framed
with zinc or copper on the two straight side.  The "frame" protruded about an
inch or so beyond the glass and small screws were inserted through holes in
the metal.  The unfinished edges of the metal were also mitered. However, you
guys are making me think (dangerous, very dangerous)......why can't a wood
"frame" be made similar to the way racks are constructed to hang wine glasses.
It would also allow the glass to be changed for the season.  One flat piece of
wood with two 'L" shaped moldings attached to it to form a slot.  I guess a
wider flat metal would need to be soldered to the top of the glass piece for
the purpose of slipping tab A into slot B.  

If you want a bio, I will gladly comply, however the most exciting glass
related experience I had recently was being taken into the back rooms of the
Tijuana glass shops to watch the people make bevels, cut glass and solder.  (I
think my traveling companions wished they had kept me, ahhh, the joys of
teenage boys).  Patrick, on a personal note, do you have someone already
chosen for bio 69?  It suits my perverse sense of humor........please, please,
please.....

Ok, way too long, sorry, have a great day everyone.........

Pat

 
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 12:01:52 1998
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Toby <toby@northlights.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Installing Stained-Glass Window into Stone Window Frame
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:12:18 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1998Sep30.41218.0>
References: <<199809301224.NAA31490@saturn.nildram.co.uk>>
Precedence: bulk


Everyone is tell the newbie not to attempt this project.  What the newbie
is asking really isn't about making the panel, its about installation of
the panel.  Consider that one easy out would be for the newbie to build a
frame that fits nicely into the niche of the window.  The panel can be
secures in the fram with silicone or framing nails.  The frame can then be
positioned and secured into the concrete opening using concrete nails or
screws.  

Seems that the skills needed here are woodworking and construction skills.
Peggy

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 12:29:56 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1
From: eldondo1@juno.com
To: studio@stainedglass.co.uk
Subject: Re: Re : THIS IS NOT MY MAIL, WHAT IS GOING ON?
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:58:00 -0500
Message-ID: <1998Sep30.4580.0>
References: <<1998Sep30.155212.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Just sat here wondering when I read your post... Do any of the newbies
,or old timers(like me) use two groziers when thy want to separate small
and sometimes,lengthy cuts. Just butt the groziers on the score and
pull,I have been doing this for years and wondered if it wasn't something
that should be passed on...Enjoy your posts EliZabeth and also EliSabeth
'n Toby
Don <eldondo1@juno.com>

On Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:52:12 +0100 "studio@stainedglass.co.uk"
<studio@stainedglass.co.uk> writes:
>Rox, welcome to bungi - dont panic.  
>All these peculiar messages are just chitchat and some are part of a 
>running
>joke between members of the bungi group, and are generally accepted by 
>the
>majority as being part of the fun of being in the group.
>I usually read them, chuckle at the funny bits and move on to the next 
>message.
>We seem to be going through one of those odd periods where the 
>messages are
>more about personalities and jokes than serious stained glass stuff -
>perhaps the weather or the time of year? - and some of our  US members 
>are
>just getting over the visit of hurricane Georges so can be expected to 
>be a
>bit frivolous (sp)
>But often they do include interesting tips connected with stained 
>glass.
>Though we are a collection of vastly different people we all have the 
>same
>common interest in and love of (addiction to?) stained glass in all 
>its
>forms, so if you have any problems you need help with please post a 
>question
>and you will be amazed at how helpful and supportive everyone is.
>Regards
>Elizabeth
>Bournemouth Stained Glass
>http://www.stainedglass.co.uk
>
>
>----
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>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 13:02:38 1998
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X-Path: memach.com!lcbell
From: Linda Campbell <lcbell@memach.com>
To: "Glass@bungi.com" <Glass@bungi.com>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: is cornerettes a technical term?
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 15:22:33 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep30.112233.0>
Precedence: bulk

Pat:

This is what the curtain rod slot does. I guess if you wanted it fancy your 
could mount the rod to a wooden bracket before mounting to corner.


why can't a wood
"frame" be made similar to the way racks are constructed to hang wine 
glasses.
It would also allow the glass to be changed for the season.  One flat piece 
of
wood with two 'L" shaped moldings attached to it to form a slot.

Bios seem to be a mix of glass/personal life expereinces. Tell us ALL.


If you want a bio, I will gladly comply, however the most exciting glass
related experience I had recently was being taken into the back rooms of 
the
Tijuana glass shops to watch the people make bevels, cut glass and solder. 
 (I
think my traveling companions wished they had kept me, ahhh, the joys of
teenage boys).  Patrick, on a personal note, do you have someone already
chosen for bio 69?  It suits my perverse sense of humor........please, 
please,
please.....


Linda

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 13:34:29 1998
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X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis
From: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Re: Installing Stained-Glass Window into Stone Window Frame
Summary: Authenticated sender is <alewis@vgernet.net>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 15:56:29 +0000
Message-ID: <199809302252.SAA26271@vger.vgernet.net>
Precedence: bulk


> Everyone is tell the newbie not to attempt this project.  What the newbie
> is asking really isn't about making the panel, its about installation of
> the panel.  Consider that one easy out would be for the newbie to build a
> frame that fits nicely into the niche of the window.  The panel can be
> secures in the fram with silicone or framing nails.  The frame can then be
> positioned and secured into the concrete opening using concrete nails or
> screws.  

I'm tired. This may be a "tired" answer: Newbie hasn't a clue. I was 
polite before, but that was then. Newbie should back off. Newbie 
should hire experienced studio to install job as subcon. End of story.

Albert

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 13:55:41 1998
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X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn
From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" <edupjohn@slonet.org>
To: Witchdoc3@aol.com
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  Re:  cornerette's
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:41:09 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1998Sep30.5419.0>
References: <<1998Sep30.171243.0>>
Precedence: bulk

Someone asked about "installing the cornerette."  I remembered an article
in the Professional Stained Glass magazine, September, 1991, on Cutting
Corners by Chris Peterson.  The article credited Roy Little for their
invention.  In the article under the topic of fabrication the following
description was given regarding installation:

Cut Corners are custom one-of-a-kind commissions.  Once one of
Little-Raidl's initial designs is finalized, the piece is fabricated in
its triangular shape using copper foil.  The right angle formed by the
straight edges of the piece is then set into an L-shaped framework of zinc
came, which is used for its flexibility and strength, allowing for
adjustment where windows are no longer truly square.

The Zinc frame includes a nail soldered vertically to the outside corner
where the two legs join.  This 'spike' will serve as a positioning post
when the piece is installed and will hold the corner in place.  The two
ends of the frame are cut at an angle, leaving a section of came through
which screws can be driven to secure the work in the window or door frame.
The irregular edge of the triangular panel is sculpted with 707 came to
provide additional strength and to hold it firmly within the zinc frame.

To install the work, one merely holds it in place with the vertical edge
of the piece flush against the vertical edge of the window or door frame.
The work is then slid up until the spike marks the top of the frame.  One
then drills a hole just large enough to accommodate the spike.  Finally,
the piece is positioned with the spike in place, the holes are drilled
into the legs, and the screws inserted to hold the work securely in its
location.  Unusual installations involve slightly more complex solutions,
but the basic technique remains:  the zinc is attached to its mounting
surface with screws.

PJ

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 14:31:32 1998
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X-Path: erols.com!nadinesfolly
From: Nadine Beth Schneider <nadinesfolly@erols.com>
To: Glass Enthusiasts <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
Subject: test 2 (using uuencode vs mime)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:08:57 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep30.13857.0>
Organization: Custom Art Glass Studio
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------4AB4F00B0BD0629EF40132D3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

This is my second test--
first one only worked for
some. . .and not me!
Thanks for your patience. . .

         Nadine
--------------4AB4F00B0BD0629EF40132D3
Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;
 name="nadinesfolly.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for Nadine Beth Schneider
Content-Disposition: attachment;
 filename="nadinesfolly.vcf"

begin:vcard
n:Schneider;Nadine Beth
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
org:Nadine's Folly Art Glass Studio
version:2.1
email;internet:nadinesfolly@erols.com
title:www.nadinesfolly.com
x-mozilla-cpt:;0
fn:Nadine Beth Schneider
end:vcard


--------------4AB4F00B0BD0629EF40132D3--

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 16:13:39 1998
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From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Subject: Two groziers?
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:27:38 +0100
Message-ID: <1998Oct1.02738.0>
Precedence: bulk

At 09:58 30/09/98 -0500, Don wrote:
>Just sat here wondering when I read your post... Do any of the newbies
>,or old timers(like me) use two groziers when thy want to separate small
>and sometimes,lengthy cuts. Just butt the groziers on the score and
>pull,I have been doing this for years and wondered if it wasn't something
>that should be passed on.

Absolutely, Don, and also when you are breaking out 45 degree angles on
strips of glass for say a mitred look for a mirror border and want to keep
the points on both pieces of glass.
And for those of us who sell the tools as well as teach, what better way to
sell double the amount of tools - only kidding, honest.
EliZabeth in Bournemouth

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 16:51:24 1998
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From: "M. Savad" <esavad@home.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Re: Re : THIS IS NOT MY MAIL, WHAT IS GOING ON? - grozing pliers
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:03:18 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep30.14318.0>
References: <<1998Sep30.4580.0>>
Precedence: bulk

eldondo1@juno.com wrote:
> 
> Just sat here wondering when I read your post... Do any of the newbies
> ,or old timers(like me) use two groziers when thy want to separate small
> and sometimes,lengthy cuts. Just butt the groziers on the score and
> pull,I have been doing this for years and wondered if it wasn't something
> that should be passed on...Enjoy your posts EliZabeth and also EliSabeth
> 'n Toby
> Don <eldondo1@juno.com>
> 
> On Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:52:12 +0100 "studio@stainedglass.co.uk"
> <studio@stainedglass.co.uk> writes:
> >Rox, welcome to bungi - dont panic.
> >All these peculiar messages are just chitchat and some are part of a
> >running
> >joke between members of the bungi group, and are generally accepted by
> >the
> >majority as being part of the fun of being in the group.
> >I usually read them, chuckle at the funny bits and move on to the next
> >message.
> >We seem to be going through one of those odd periods where the
> >messages are
> >more about personalities and jokes than serious stained glass stuff -
> >perhaps the weather or the time of year? - and some of our  US members
> >are
> >just getting over the visit of hurricane Georges so can be expected to
> >be a
> >bit frivolous (sp)
> >But often they do include interesting tips connected with stained
> >glass.
> >Though we are a collection of vastly different people we all have the
> >same
> >common interest in and love of (addiction to?) stained glass in all
> >its
> >forms, so if you have any problems you need help with please post a
> >question
> >and you will be amazed at how helpful and supportive everyone is.
> >Regards
> >Elizabeth
> >Bournemouth Stained Glass
> >http://www.stainedglass.co.uk
> >
> >
> >----
> >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com
> >To send to the list,      please mail to: glass@bungi.com
> >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass
> >
> 
> ___________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
> ----
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> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass

i've done it before. but only on rare ocasions. mainly because it can be
tricky getting the glass to line up. and not crushing the other piece
with the other pair of pliers... mostly i'll tighten my grip around the
glass with my thumb. unless it's real thick and i know it will slice
me...

---Mike Savad

-- 
Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141
9-22-98 New Pages Added: 266 New Links in 5 Catagories, A sneak preview
of the Brilliance Award.
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 17:17:37 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re:  Re: Hiring 70 IT Consultants For Big 6 Consulting Firm in A
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:54:14 +0000
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I'll do better than that!!
I'll send some real byproducts by snail-mail.... (and it won't be 
"digestIVE".... it'll be "digestED" ..    :->    ) Perhaps I save 
some to send to the Liposuction people too.
Howzat!
E 'n T

> 
> OTOH, that might not be such a bad idea........ heh heh heh........ Gee, I
> wonder if there's a way for Elisabeth to e-mail him some nice ripe canine
> digestive byproducts, size extra-large? THAT would get his attention!
> 
 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 17:31:49 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Re : THIS IS NOT MY MAIL, WHAT IS GOING ON?
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:54:13 +0000
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Well Hello Don,

It IS nice to hear from you more regularly these days.
In deed I do!   I sometimes even wish I could use 3 groziers...  ;->
But when I get to these long, very thin stretches I also use 2 so 
called "breaking pliers", which have a much wider jaw.
They are more robust and heavy-duty, but you might find that these 
work for you even better than ordinary grozier pliers.
With my best wishes.
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK
 (who also wishes to thank EliZabeth in Bournemouth for her 
indulgance with the "silly season"....)

Don wrote:
> Just sat here wondering when I read your post... Do any of the newbies
> ,or old timers(like me) use two groziers when thy want to separate small
> and sometimes,lengthy cuts. Just butt the groziers on the score and
> pull,I have been doing this for years and wondered if it wasn't something
> that should be passed on...Enjoy your posts EliZabeth and also EliSabeth
> 'n Toby
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 17:41:27 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Installing Stained-Glass Window into Stone Window Frame
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:13:16 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep30.151316.0>
Precedence: bulk

Building a quatrefoil frame could
be an interesting challenge methinks!
It's an interesting enough challenge
getting them to fit into stone masonry.
I agree with all the previous comments,
it's not a job for an amateur.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 17:57:16 1998
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X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios
From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "Albert Lewis" <alewis@vgernet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: Installing Stained-Glass Window into Stone Window Frame
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:13:09 -0400
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Oh, dear.  Albert seems
rather cranky.  And right,
nonetheless.  This is a =

job for a very experienced
professional.  =


Albert, get some sleep. ;-)

Best,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & Studios
----
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 18:30:34 1998
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From: "Michael J. Greer" <GreerStudios@compuserve.com>
To: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" <studio@stainedglass.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Two groziers?
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:50:54 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep30.155054.0>
Precedence: bulk

Elizabeth, how wicked!  Yes,
I also use two breaking pliers
sometimes, especially when =

the pieces of glass are very
small and one simply can't
get a good finger-grip on =

either side of the score.  Also,
teaches you to get very in-tune
with your tools.... when I tried
it the first time, I can remember
crushing the glass in the left
plier!  Just didn't have a good
sense of touch with that hand.

Best regards,

Dani Greer
Greer Gallery & STudios
www.igga.org/greer/  =

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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 19:01:57 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: Re: Installing Stained-Glass Window into Stone Window Frame
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 00:54:03 +0000
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Not quite Peggy,

I didn't say to "newbie" NOT to do it, I said "put it on ice"..... 
for later.
I hate to disagree with you - but on this occasion I really must 
(cringe).
 The way "newbie" described the project, the more it sounded 
to me that the installation aspect would also - to some extent - 
determine how it was made..... that the two were indivisible part of 
each other. 
One just cannot cobble together a piece of stained glass disregarding 
its "home".
This is also a quatrefeuille project - which for any Total Beginner  
is    w  a  y     out of their abilities, having only ever made one 
single panel before.... EVER. "Newbie" freely admitted that.
Newbie actually said,THIS is the project, THIS is what I have done so 
far. 
In essence it's not too dissimilar from the totally Uninitiated 
arriving into class with a 3000 piece Tiffany replica lamp pattern, 
hoping to do it in a few weeks.
I think we must be realistic here.
I myself also believe that I would have to carefully, gently take the 
student through step-by-step. However long that took. There is 
nothing wrong in wanting to reach for the moon, but even now - you 
still need to be a trained austronaut to get there....... And THAT 
training isn't acquired in 5 minutes...... 5 weeks or even.... 5 
months....!  As I said before, I am judging from the description of 
the project as it came over to me. I took one deep breath and was 
quite glad that Albert got there before I did. (I said as much to him 
off-group!)

What I am missing in this thread are in-puts from Dani & Michael, 
Paul and PJ Friend. They too deal with the more "heavy-duty" end of 
stained glass as this particular project appears to be. Once you are 
involved in installing into stone, you are dealing with a totally 
different ball-game. It just isn't a question of silicone, nails and 
screws.
Oh, I do so hate to disagree with you..... :-<
Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK

> 
Peggy wrote:
> Everyone is tell the newbie not to attempt this project.  What the newbie
> is asking really isn't about making the panel, its about installation of
> the panel.  Consider that one easy out would be for the newbie to build a
> frame that fits nicely into the niche of the window.  The panel can be
> secures in the fram with silicone or framing nails.  The frame can then be
> positioned and secured into the concrete opening using concrete nails or
> screws.  
> 
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 19:24:42 1998
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X-Path: juno.com!jroey
From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey)
To: glass@bungi.com
Subject: Common Ground 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 20:46:05 -0400
Message-ID: <1998Sep30.16465.0>
Precedence: bulk

Will the article on Mike go on the IGGA web site?  I looked, but the last
issue was Spring '98.  Some of us non-members want to see it!

Jerri

___________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
----
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 19:35:20 1998
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From: Richard LaVal <rlaval@sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: non-glass ; filtering messages
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:41:38 -0500
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Dear All,
	I recently discovered that my copy of Eudora Light does have filtering
capabilities... so right away I told it to filter the glassline messages
and put them in a special folder..... on most of them it works fine,
however I receive 5-10 a day that are glass messages, but they don=B4t
mention glassline, so they don=B4t get filtered.  When I examined the header=
,
I can=B4t really figure out why I am getting the messages at all... they
don=B4t seem to mention either my address, or glassline....Does anyone know
what is going on?  Here are some examples.... Neither Glass@bungi.com, nor
my address are listed..

X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3
From: Witchdoc3@aol.com
To: Rox4250@aol.com
Subject: Re:  THIS IS NOT MY MAIL, WHY AM I GETTING IT
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:12:49 EDT

X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass
From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: Rox4250@aol.com
Subject: Unwanted mail
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:14:09 +0000

Maybe others are having the same trouble??? =20

Cheers, Meg
RICHARD AND MEG LAVAL
Apdo 24-5655
Monteverde
COSTA RICA

PHONE 645-5052 or 645-5419
----
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 19:58:19 1998
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From: Elizabeth Arakelian <glshorse@ior.com>
To: glass@bungi.com
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Subject: future bio
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 17:41:05 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Oct1.10415.0>
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OK OK I will send Patrick my bio again:) I tried and it must have gotten
vacuumed up into cyberland. For the curious: my husband is Armenian, no
I am not Greek, even tho we are in the Greek Orthodox church.confusing I
know. 
To answer the question about Lukes icon....it is not a permanent
installation in Hagia Sophia...much like various relics in monasteries
thruout the world may have originated elsewhere and be much much older
than the place they are resting in. 
As a result of some reading I have been doing I have become very curious
about exactly what the ecclesiastical history of stained glass is prior
to the 1054 church split...I do understand there is stained glass in
hagia sophia which pretty much discharges the theory that glass is only
a western thing....this may help the graphic design student too...if I
unearth anything else will let the group know.
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 20:20:37 1998
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From: "Toby" <toby@northlights.co.uk>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Bios Alas and Alack -  gone to the dogs
Summary: Authenticated sender is <glass@pop3.nildram.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 02:02:52 +0000
Message-ID: <199810010108.CAA25020@saturn.nildram.co.uk>
Precedence: bulk



Hey Nadine!!!
Enough to get ANYONE's taste-buds going!!!
Slurp!, Slurp!
TOBY, the HUNGRY  O.E.S. in UK (who is really EVER so gentle)

Nadine wrote:.
 .he's well seasoned. . .
> but not by juniper berries and gin.  I think of him more like. . .
> a well aged filet mignon--real soft and tender. No knives needed!
> Just the best!
>                  
----
As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind"
North Lights Stained Glass - homepage
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm 
----
----
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 20:56:26 1998
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X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch
From: Shirley Balloch <balloch@netbridge.net>
To: glass@bungi.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: Messages
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:49:46 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep30.114946.0>
Organization: Maiden Concepts
Precedence: bulk

When the rest of you send in a message, do you ALWAYS get it back with
the rest of the bungi mail?
I don't seem to be!
Shirley B
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 21:19:47 1998
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X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51
From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" <weaver51@teleport.com>
To: "glass bungi line" <glass@bungi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
Subject: 2 groziers
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:04:21 -0700
Message-ID: <1998Sep30.12421.0>
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For small tight inside curves on small pieces of glass they work very well.
A lot of times the hand held glass breaks because it has been flexed and the
groziers pull off the part you do not want. For long pieces that you want to
keep both sides of 2 groziers work real well. Practice keeping the pressure
from both pliers equal and not flexing either pair more than  the other one.

What no lampers with questions!!!
enjoy, H

weaver51@teleport.com
http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard   best lamps on the "net"
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From owner-glass Wed Sep 30 22:32:30 1998
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Subject: Re: Installing Stained-Glass Window into Stone Window Frame
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In a message dated 9/30/98 9:05:36 PM Central Daylight Time,
toby@northlights.co.uk writes:

<< This is also a quatrefeuille project  >>

O.K.., I'll ask...What the heck is that?
Susan
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