From owner-glass Wed Jul 1 01:15:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 23:46:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: , "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: side lights Date: Wed, 1 Jul 98 01:06:06 -0400 Message-ID: <199807010509.BAA24591@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk >Okay Yall, > I have been asked to do a couple of side lights. The size is 9" x 68". She >just wants a simple design, but lots of colors. I figure this is 4.25 sq, >feet. I'd planned on charging $45. a sq. ft. (That's $191.00 for each one). >Is that too high? > > Also, I'm thinking I can't get too much design in such a narrow panel. I'm >open for suggestions. I'll do them in copperfoil. I guess I should use >reinforcement? Hi Susan, I think $45/sq. ft. is too low. How about $50/sq. ft. plus $1.50 per piece. That price is still quite reasonable. Yes, you should use reinforcement, so design it so a piece of restrip can wind all the way from top to bottom, and I'd put zinc around the whole thing for sure, probably 3/8". Hopefully on installation you could cover the zinc with some molding. Or - you could make it in three different sections if your design allows and join the sections together between two horizontal pieces of H-zinc, spaced a third of the way down for each section and have them solder right to the zinc surrounding the piece. That would strengthen it quite a bit. Be careful transporting it! Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 1 02:06:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 00:42:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones From: "B. S. Jones" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: removing silvering from mirrors Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 08:36:02 +0100 Message-ID: <1998Jul1.9362.0> Precedence: bulk One of the methods that I have used in the past is the chemical Ferric Chloride. This was on the surfaces of telescope mirrors that I have made. This is usually used in the making of printed circuit boards for the electronics industry. It can be bought from hobbyist electronics stores as a yellow powder that you dissolve in water. Again you have to strip off any covering over the aluminium depsited on the glass but it etches surfaces off very fast. It is quite safe, in the uk they add it to the water supply here to make the water sparkle. Brandon S. Jones ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 1 05:05:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 03:24:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: worldnet.att.net!vlg From: "Vic LaGreca" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: side lights/price fixing Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 06:27:27 -0400 Message-ID: <19980701102408.BPFK23521@vic> Precedence: bulk Although my re is meant tongue in cheek, it is interesting to me how openly pricing is discussed here and at other sites on the net. My profession is one where the slightest reference to specific pricing, amongst proteges, can cost you your license and perhaps some "time". At what point does "suggestions" become collusion and/or conspiracy? Ciao Vic ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 1 07:07:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 05:38:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: side lights/price fixing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 08:43:11 +0000 Message-ID: <199807011353.JAA03032@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > At what point does "suggestions" become collusion and/or conspiracy? When enough money or customers are involved. So far, the art glass world isn't large enough for that to pertain, alas, since there are studio practitioners who should be in jail for what they do to windows and clients. At this point, the stained glass world isn't even as large as the home repair industry, which is now monitored and licensed by most states. The glass world is a mere mote in the eye, an iota of information, an atom of concern to legislators and law enforcement, so studios can pretty much get away with whatever they want to do. Collusion exists, as does conspiracy, but on such a small scale as to make no nevermind. When clients sue studios and practitioners who *should be sued (put out of business, by my way of thinking), usually those individuals and studios are savvy enough to have a lawyer in hand who makes sure that a nondisclosure clause goes into any settlement agreement, so neither the client nor the person or company that's been sued is allowed to talk about it. That way, the client's satisfied, has been refunded at least part of what they paid for shoddy workmanship or damage to their windows, but they can never comment on the fact that they were unhappy with the work nor that the work was second-rate (third-rate), that they sued and settled ... nothing. That way the perps can just go right on doing their damage. When the glass world grows to be as large as roofers, driveway pavers, landscape maintenance companies, etc., then it'll be big enough to warrent the attention of licensing agencies and legal departments of states and municipalities. But nobody on bungi is really colluding or conspiring; they're merely trading information about pricing. If all the stained glass shops in a single city or state got together and said, okay, we're all going to charge $500/square foot for our work, thus forcing clients to pay that, they would be colluding and conspiring. For them to merely say, you should charge enough to make a profit and stay in business, all they're passing along is sound business advice. A company has to make a profit or it'll die. If it dies, it can no longer provide the after-sale support that any business should, nor can it continue to support those who operate it, nor its employees. Since the so-called industry is so small, however, even if all the art glass shops in a single state got together to collude on a $500/square foot price, all that would happen is they'd all go out of business together, since glass is a luxury, not a necessity, and clients would merely not buy any. My 2c worth. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 1 07:36:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 06:19:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Bio #30 Shakeel Abedi Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 06:17:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199807011317.GAA05158@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk Dear Shakeel, Great bio! Really had a very nice chuckle on the copper foil learning, I could see you now (back then!) trying to figure things out:) Good for you! Mike's site is fabulous, great for learning. God Bless and Happy Cutting! Smiles, Cindy >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 1 08:34:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 06:57:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!StndGlass1 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: re: lead hazards Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 09:56:19 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul1.135619.0> Precedence: bulk I do have to input a little, as I am now 10 weeks pregnant. Our business is a family one, so my mother did stained glass all through her pregnancies with myself and my younger sister. The key is being very careful. Certainly, if you are a hobbyist, I recommend using lead free solder, but in a business that is not always possible. I have my lead levels checked every month, as she did. (Still registering VERY low). My doctor says as long as we keep monitoring, it shouldn't be a problem. I use rubber gloves on all work that I am doing anywhere near lead or chemicals while I am pregnant, and I have installed a heavy duty air filter in my workroom which removes all of the fumes. Yes, it is a safety hazard worth strong consideration, and yes, if you are a hobbyist and your livelihood doesn't depend on it by all means switch to lead free solder. But, with proper and careful monitoring of your blood lead levels and safe and practical use of the lead, you don't have to close your business for nine months when you get pregnant. Just my two cents. Jenna Meredith-Sanders Meredith Stained Glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 1 09:02:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 07:49:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: erols.com!nadinesfolly From: Nadine Beth Schneider To: Albert Lewis Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: side lights/price fixing Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 10:45:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul1.6450.0> References: <<199807011353.JAA03032@vger.vgernet.net>> Precedence: bulk Hi Albert! I thought your answer was very well put and right on. I heartily agree! Nadine > > At what point does "suggestions" become collusion and/or > conspiracy? > > When enough money or customers are involved. So far, the art glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 1 09:37:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 08:21:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: side lights Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 11:18:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul1.71857.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:CWWSLW@aol.com >Okay Yall, I have been asked to do a couple of side lights. The size is 9" x 68". S= he just wants a simple design, but lots of colors. I figure this is 4.25 sq,= feet. I'd planned on charging $45. a sq. ft. (That's $191.00 for each one). Is that too high?> Nope. Not too much. In fact, I would charge more. < Also, I'm thinking I can't get too much design in such a narrow panel. I'm open for suggestions. I'll do them in copperfoil. I guess I should use reinforcement?> You can do quite a bit of fun design in that narrow a space. Don't think in just straight horizontal & straight vertical lines. Try diagonal lines. Mix in jewels & nuggets. Mix in some interesting curved lines. Now play with the colors. I did a restoration of a couple of old church windows (very narrow like a sidelight) that had mixed-up diagonal lines combined with faceted jewels, all with a beautiful mix of bright colors. The faceted jewels were aqua, pink, gold, royal blue, red. It's lovely. As to reinforcement...absolutely necessary! Use Strong-Line (copper-clad stainless steel) or Re-Strip. Run it horizontally in quite a few places. You must also frame the sidelight in some sort of metal border, such as zinc. Have fun! Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 1 13:03:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 11:37:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: re: lead hazards Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:42:26 +0000 Message-ID: <199807011952.PAA20476@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Yes, it is a safety hazard worth strong consideration, and yes, if you are a > hobbyist and your livelihood doesn't depend on it by all means switch to lead > free solder. But, with proper and careful monitoring of your blood lead > levels and safe and practical use of the lead, you don't have to close your > business for nine months when you get pregnant. Thanks for your nice, calm input, Jenna. Personally, I think you're right, that care and constant monitoring are called for. It's surprising, though, the number of people in the stained glass world who still deny that lead is a problem at all. I remember years ago, when I first started making mention of lead hazards and steps one could take regarding safety and monitoring, I got calls from manufacturers and old-line studios excoriating me for mentioning it at all. They just wanted to sell product and the customers could just look out for themselves. Even the venerable Stained Glass Association for a long time denied there was any problem, chewed out one of their studio members for testifying to Congress about lead in stained glass studios, even though all he was doing was saying what steps his studio had taken to make sure its employees were faced with a little hazard as possible. Oh, well. Now the SGAA is fully on the bandwagon with regard to lead safety precautions, which is certainly an improvement. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 1 16:57:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 12:51:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pobox.com!Northernlights From: "Northernlights (Tracy Reitmann)" To: CWWSLW@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: side lights Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 14:51:51 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul1.95151.0> References: <<1998Jul1.3431.0>> Precedence: bulk > can't get too much design in such a narrow panel. I'm open for suggestions.> > I don't know what style house she has, but have you looked at some of the > designs Frank Lloyd Wright did??? I think in some cases he used quite a bit > of color and managed to get quite a bit of design in a small space. Another > thing you might want to think of is whatever design you use, maybe you could > make it continue from one sidelight to the other....the door breaking up the > pattern but it continues on the other side. Just a thought. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 1 17:14:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 13:09:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Klmxklm From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Varying glass thickness Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 16:05:33 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul1.20533.0> Precedence: bulk Hi All: I am making 2 windows, 16"X22", each with roughly 120 foiled pieces, in a Tiffany style landscape. I have used a number of types of glass which range in thickness from roughly 7/64" to 10/64". If I now solder these pieces together while they rest on a flat base, the various thicknesses will be visible. Is this a problem, and if so, does anyone have an idea how to rectify it? Or is it better not to create this problem in the first place? Thanks. Ken (Mike) Mikolajczak ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 1 19:44:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 18:15:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Varying glass thickness Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 18:16:08 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul1.11168.0> Precedence: bulk Use the differences in thickness to add a bit of dimension to the window.....even tip some up a bit more to effect a shadow. Bring another piece over the lower one (modified plating) in places. USE care when flipping it, as it will not lie flat on the other side. enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 1 20:05:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 18:17:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Klmxklm@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Varying glass thickness Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 21:14:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul1.171415.0> References: <<1998Jul1.20533.0>> Precedence: bulk Klmxklm@aol.com wrote: > > Hi All: > I am making 2 windows, 16"X22", each with roughly 120 foiled pieces, in a > Tiffany style landscape. I have used a number of types of glass which range in > thickness from roughly 7/64" to 10/64". If I now solder these pieces together > while they rest on a flat base, the various thicknesses will be visible. Is > this a problem, and if so, does anyone have an idea how to rectify it? Or is > it better not to create this problem in the first place? Thanks. > > Ken (Mike) Mikolajczak > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass are you by any chance a machist? i never heard anyone descibe glass down to the 64th... :) the glass thickness is'nt a problem. solder helps keep everything level looking. just imagine the varying thicknesses in drapery glass... if it were came, it may be a little more difficult... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 1 20:19:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 18:25:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Varying glass thickness Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 21:23:27 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul1.172327.0> References: <<1998Jul1.20533.0>> Precedence: bulk If you put the front side down and solder the back first, then no one will know that you have different sizes of glass (unless they sneak in and look behind somehow, etc. (and they're probably looking in your medicine chest, too!) Then again, the unevenness could make the piece more interesting. Lay it out and look at it closely. Only you can decide! I'd much rather use the right color and texture than worry about the thickness. Dorothy K Klmxklm@aol.com wrote: > Hi All: > I am making 2 windows, 16"X22", each with roughly 120 foiled pieces, in a > Tiffany style landscape. I have used a number of types of glass which range in > thickness from roughly 7/64" to 10/64". If I now solder these pieces together > while they rest on a flat base, the various thicknesses will be visible. Is > this a problem, and if so, does anyone have an idea how to rectify it? Or is > it better not to create this problem in the first place? Thanks. > > Ken (Mike) Mikolajczak > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 1 20:54:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 19:17:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: My poppy is up. Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:51:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul1.175111.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all, I finally have a picture of the poppy up on my page. This was the one from SGN that many of you gave me advice about framing and hanging, and then there was the dreaded Restrip (I won't even go into that.)..... I don't have the specifics up on the page, but it measures 15"w x 17 1/2"h. I fused the center piece using clear stringer and black and brown frit on clear glass. I also fused the background pieces using frit, confetti, and stringer. If you want to see it: www.mindspring.com/~roey It's on the "panels" page. Jerri _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 2 00:29:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 23:09:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Beveler4 From: To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Varying width of glass Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 02:05:19 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul2.6519.0> Precedence: bulk You may also use some coins such as nickels and quarters to hold the pieces to the correct level. I have done as Mr. Weaver said, used the differences as a method of plating with many coins stacked under some pieces and none under others etc. You get the idea,also can use clear plate glass for plating to give some depth to the glass.Beveler4(Stan) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 2 03:00:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 01:46:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel Abedi" To: "Bungi Group" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Flameworking Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 16:51:20 +0800 Message-ID: <1998Jul3.05120.0> Precedence: bulk Hi folks, As all of you would be aware by now, my knowledge about stained glass is very limited. I sometimes ask very basic and silly questions. Having done some panel lamps, and now half way though the Tiffany style (dafodil - on a Worden mold) I have come across references to flameworking. What exactly is flameworking. Is that technique used for making lampshades? Any books? Or sites that have more information on. Buying a kiln is presently not in my scheme of things, costs a ton here. But a torch does not seem too forbiding. Thanks. Shakeel Abedi 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Johor Malaysia Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 shakeel@tm.net.my ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 2 03:31:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 01:48:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel Abedi" To: "Bungi Group" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: what happened to the TOPIC OF THE WEEK ? Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 16:55:18 +0800 Message-ID: <1998Jul3.05518.0> Precedence: bulk Some time back some had mooted the idea of having a topic of the week. Wonder what has happened to that wonderful idea. Was it further discussed, then I must have missed it. Please fill me in some one? If it petered out, perhaps we should bring it back, What do say Albert, Mike, Shirley, Elesabeth, Patrick, and all the others. Shakeel Abedi 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Johor Malaysia Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 shakeel@tm.net.my ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 2 05:28:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 04:06:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: what happened to the TOPIC OF THE WEEK ? Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 07:03:23 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul2.11323.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 7/2/98 6:35:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, shakeel@tm.net.my writes: << Some time back some had mooted the idea of having a topic of the week. Wonder what has happened to that wonderful idea. Was it further discussed, then I must have missed it. Please fill me in some one? >> I'm new so don't know about the past discussion, but I think it's a great idea! Brenda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 2 05:43:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 04:47:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon From: To: jroey@juno.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: My poppy is up. Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 07:07:35 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul2.11735.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 7/1/98 11:55:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jroey@juno.com writes: << Hi all, I finally have a picture of the poppy up on my page. This was the one from SGN that many of you gave me advice about framing and hanging, and then there was the dreaded Restrip (I won't even go into that.)..... I don't have the specifics up on the page, but it measures 15"w x 17 1/2"h. I fused the center piece using clear stringer and black and brown frit on clear glass. I also fused the background pieces using frit, confetti, and stringer. If you want to see it: www.mindspring.com/~roey It's on the "panels" page. >> It's beautiful! Looks like it's leaping right off the panel. Your entire website (and your husband's as well) is very interesting and professional. Great work! Brenda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 2 07:43:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 06:33:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Flameworking and kilns Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 09:38:25 +0000 Message-ID: <199807021449.KAA07066@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Having done some panel lamps, and now half way though the Tiffany style > (dafodil - on a Worden mold) I have come across references to flameworking. > What exactly is flameworking. Is that technique used for making lampshades? Nope, although some lampshades are made by glassblowers, notably the "Puffies." But that's on-the-pipe glassblowing. For a hotbed of lampworking people, advice and stuff, go to http://www.hotglass.com/ and click on Glass Line's Bulletin Board that's down the page a bit in blue type. You'll find a ton of stuff there about flameworking, which is also called "lampworking." > Any books? Or sites that have more information on. There are twelve books listed in the Guild's online library at http://www.aiap.com/amazon/ But you can also use the search tool at http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga Just type in the word "lampworking" or "flameworking" (or both) to get a list of books available from Amazon.com online . > Buying a kiln is presently not in my scheme of things, costs a ton here. But > a torch does not seem too forbiding. I dunno. You might get in touch with Marty Daily at Centre de Verre. He sells lots of kilns overseas and just might be able to provide one to you at a reasonable cost: Marty Daily Centre De Verre 18 Bartlett Street Allenstown NH 03275 - Phone: ( 603 ) 485 - 8749 Fax: (603) 485-8344 Email: hotglass4u@aol.com Good luck with all this! Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 2 08:20:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 06:58:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: My poppy is up. Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 06:57:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199807021357.GAA27043@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk Jerri, Great stuff!!! Loved your poppy (loved it all) Fabulous glass painting! Can I come for lessons? And Snoopy the mosaic is to die for! Great site, really enjoyed the visit. Thanks, Cindy > >Hi all, > I finally have a picture of the poppy up on my page. This was >the one from SGN that many of you gave me advice about framing and >hanging, and then there was the dreaded Restrip (I won't even go into >that.)..... I don't have the specifics up on the page, but it measures >15"w x 17 1/2"h. I fused the center piece using clear stringer and >black and brown frit on clear glass. I also fused the background pieces >using frit, confetti, and stringer. > > If you want to see it: > > www.mindspring.com/~roey > > It's on the "panels" page. > >Jerri > > >_____________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com >Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 2 09:23:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 08:13:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: topic of the week Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 08:13:39 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul2.11339.0> Precedence: bulk Just a friendly reminder of a suggestion which may not be implemented, Be nice to put in the subject line: Non glass: (put topic here) makes the inbox helper feel wanted and useful. thanks, H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 2 12:35:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 10:40:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: Howard and Elaine Rubin Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: topic of the week Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 13:31:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul2.93148.0> References: <<1998Jul2.11339.0>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Yes, topic of the week is a good idea, IMHO, must have missed the suggestion before. Since I'm doing my first fusing With my little Paragon Quick Fire Kiln-(it is on soak right now). May I suggest the thread- Experiences with Quick Fire table top Kilns??? There are two or three brands, all somewhat similar. This one goes to 1500 in about 7 minutes. So Here goes, Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations Howard and Elaine Rubin wrote: > > Just a friendly reminder of a suggestion which may not be implemented, > > Be nice to put in the subject line: Non glass: (put topic here) > > makes the inbox helper feel wanted and useful. > > thanks, H ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 2 13:00:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 11:22:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Quick Fire Kilns Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 13:45:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul2.94514.0> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk I'm just doing my first project with my new Quick Fire Kiln. I'm making matching earrings, with slab pendant bead, matching. Dichroic Glass with Clear over it. COE 90, Uroboros glass. They are in the 'soak' cycle rignt now. Now down to the annealing cycle(can't peek) until it cools to room temp. Just to start a Weekly topic :-)))), Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations Happy with new toy---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 2 14:46:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 13:28:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------0C6A90ED062924B69F20D281" Subject: [Fwd: Progressive art] Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 13:26:13 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul2.62613.0> Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0C6A90ED062924B69F20D281 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone, I received this in the mail from a gentleman in Japan. I don't want you to pay attention to the request for financial backing, of which I believe he wants. But I'm interested in this hot glass technique he is doing. If anyone cares to take a look and give us all some input on this than that would be great. I found it very beautiful and quite interesting. Thanks Pam --------------0C6A90ED062924B69F20D281 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from geocities.com (mail3.geocities.com [209.1.224.23]) by mailhub.pacifier.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA09073 for ; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 12:31:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.Japan-Net.ne.jp (mx.Japan-Net.ne.jp [202.229.105.7]) by geocities.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA19428 for ; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 12:30:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JAPAN-NET (PPP045.hmt.Japan-Net.ne.jp [210.136.186.80]) by mx.Japan-Net.ne.jp (8.9.0+3.0W/3.6W-98062404) with SMTP id EAA10589 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 04:29:55 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <359C446D.422B@japan-net.or.jp> Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 19:39:41 -0700 From: Fumio Nishiyama X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01I [ja] (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: moswood@geocities.com Subject: Progressive art Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------24E3C3205" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------24E3C3205 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Sirs I invented the art of the very beautiful illumination which used a cracked glass balls. This beauty is found neither in Japan nor in World. Using this, the beauty like a dreamland can be created. I am looking for a company which commercializes this technique. And, I am looking for a broker and an agent. This technique can be variously used from a small accessories to a building. (ATTACHED PHOTO is one of the SAMPLERS : 2638bytes) This invention became a newspaper stories of an influential newspaper in Japan of at least four newspapers. There are a lot of photos, graphics, drawings in my home page. Please come visit me. (feast one's eyes) http://www.japan-net.or.jp/~fumio/fantasy2.html Sincerely yours. 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charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Pamela Burns-Tappan Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Pamela Burns-Tappan n: Burns-Tappan;Pamela org: Moswood Mountain Limited adr: http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html;;http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html;;;;USA email;internet: ptap@pacifier.com title: President x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------0C6A90ED062924B69F20D281-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 2 15:47:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 14:25:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, leestat7@home.com Subject: Quick Fire Kilns Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 17:23:51, -0500 Message-ID: <199807022123.RAA16930@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>I'm just doing my first project with my new Quick Fire Kiln. I'm making matching earrings, with slab pendant bead, matching. Dichroic Glass with Clear over it. COE 90, Uroboros glass. They are in the 'soak' cycle rignt now. Now down to the annealing cycle(can't peek) until it cools to room temp. Just to start a Weekly topic :-)))), Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations Happy with new toy----<< I have a couple of Quick Fire Kilns. If I was into jewlery it would be nice to have about four kilns to do production. Have other kilns should this be desirable. I like the QFs because they are quick and do not use a lot of electricity. Took my 1/4" drill and drilled a hole through the fiber muffle at the rounded seam between the top and front. Hole lines up with the center of the bottom. When the kiln is over about 1500'F the glow from the elements allows me to view the work. Does not seem to change the heating or cooling characteristics. I have made many a flock of hummers with these kilns. Do them on a clear backing plate, cut them out and lead into windows. Have come up with a number of hummer designs over the years and feel they beat any full leaded hummer. Also fuse the leaves and flowers the same way. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *What! And try to teach her to put up the seat?* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 2 17:22:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 16:05:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: topic of the week Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 16:04:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199807022304.QAA13045@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk >Hi Guys, Sounds like a good topic! That's quick fire for sure...mine takes an hour on high (not a quick fire) and then it's 1500' Did that once by mistake, thought it was on low...(Cindy can scare herself) But never fear, the beautiful bullseye was okay, tried to do it again and it broke. Question- Why so high so soon? Smiles, Cindarooni PS: went to see a glass blower this week, he showed me how he worked... he blew a paper thin bottle and told me the degrees as it was cooling. It was annealed in the open air,.... I was super surprized!!! Lee has said: >Yes, topic of the week is a good idea, IMHO, must have missed the >suggestion before. Since I'm doing my first fusing With my little >Paragon Quick Fire Kiln-(it is on soak right now). May I suggest the >thread- > >Experiences with Quick Fire table top Kilns??? There are two or three >brands, all somewhat similar. This one goes to 1500 in about 7 minutes. > >So Here goes, > >Lee Boe >Rain-Boe's Creations > > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 2 19:42:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 17:52:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Kcotcher From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: re:topic of the week Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 20:50:35 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul3.05035.0> Precedence: bulk i have a quick fire and have had it for about 6 years sitting in the box in the closet. i got it out recently to fire up and it would not fire. no heat. annybody have this happen before? so i work in my larger kiln for now. i would sure like to fire up the little one if possible. also another dilemma with my paragon. it has a computer box that i program the temp and rate of increase temp and am not sure if it is possible to program it to soak at any specific temp for 15 min or whatever is needed. i find myself just reprogramming it up several times . does any one else have to deal with this dilemma. blessings kim ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 2 19:47:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 18:12:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: what happened to the TOPIC OF THE WEEK ? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 02:08:52 +0000 Message-ID: <199807030111.CAA15917@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Good idea!! Says I - suitcase in hand! Talk to you in 2 weeks, guys! (Shakeel - enjoyed your Bio!) Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Some time back some had mooted the idea of having a topic of the week. Wonder what has happened to that wonderful idea. Was it further discussed, then I must have missed it. Please fill me in some one? If it petered out, perhaps we should bring it back, What do say Albert, Mike, Shirley, Elesabeth, Patrick, and all the others. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 2 21:21:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 19:50:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: webtv.net!Beadnik2 From: Beadnik2@webtv.net (Joan) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary=WebTV-Mail-2045488203-460 Subject: Re: topic of the week Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 22:48:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1998Jul2.184844.0> Precedence: bulk --WebTV-Mail-2045488203-460 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Lee Boe wrote: >Experiences with Quick Fire table top Kilns??? >There are two or three brands, all somewhat >similar. This one goes to 1500 in about 7 >minutes. I have a created a line of jewelry, mostly dichroic glass, using the Paragon QuickFire 6. I'm very happy with it. I do use a controller (the Paragon PCB-1) to slow the ramping up. In the beginning I kept really good notes and graphed the temps and the results. I've more or less got some of it down to a science, but still graph it out if I'm trying something new. One concern I have is that the pyrometer seems to be inaccurate... It indicates temps higher than I know, from experience, that they probably are. For instance, when I want a full fuse, the temp on the quick-fire's pyrometer is between 1700-1750 F. I KNOW it's probably not really that hot. Has anyone else had that experience with their quick-fire. I called Paragon and they said this is normal for these little kilns, because of the difference in heat in the glass on the kiln shelf, and where the pyrometer enters the kiln, which is at the top of the muffle. I have gotten used to this in most applications, but when I want to try using something new... i.e. fire-on gold paint or lustres, which specify a specific temp., it's kind of by-guess and by-golly. Does anyone else have this discrepancy, and, if so, how do you deal with estimating the "real" temps??? I've mostly been lurking on this list for a few months, but I've really learned a lot. I'm scheduled to take a lampworking class at Horizons (in Mass.) in August and I have a feeling that will generate a whole host of questions. I think this "Topic of the Week" idea is great, particularly since you picked one that is near and dear to me! Lee, please let us all know how the jewelry came out!!! Joan Beadnik Jewelry Creations Connecticut --WebTV-Mail-2045488203-460 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from mailsorter-102.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-102.iap.bryant.webtv.net [207.79.35.92]) by postoffice-142.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.5/po.gso.24Feb98) with ESMTP id MAA15107; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 12:38:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bftoemail11.bigfoot.com ([208.156.39.201]) by mailsorter-102.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.5/ms.graham.14Aug97) with SMTP id MAA01038; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 12:38:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from daver.bungi.com ([207.126.97.2]) by bftoemail8.bigfoot.com (Bigfoot Toe Mail v1.0 with message handle 980702_153843_0_bftoemail8_smtp; Thu, 02 Jul 1998 15:38:43 -0500 for beadnik2@bigfoot.com Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 10:40:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: Howard and Elaine Rubin Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: topic of the week Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 13:31:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul2.93148.0> References: <<1998Jul2.11339.0>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Yes, topic of the week is a good idea, IMHO, must have missed the suggestion before. Since I'm doing my first fusing With my little Paragon Quick Fire Kiln-(it is on soak right now). May I suggest the thread- Experiences with Quick Fire table top Kilns??? There are two or three brands, all somewhat similar. This one goes to 1500 in about 7 minutes. So Here goes, Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations Howard and Elaine Rubin wrote: > > Just a friendly reminder of a suggestion which may not be implemented, > > Be nice to put in the subject line: Non glass: (put topic here) > > makes the inbox helper feel wanted and useful. > > thanks, H ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass --WebTV-Mail-2045488203-460-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 2 22:20:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 21:19:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, Kcotcher@aol.com Subject: Re: Quick Fire Kilns Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 00:17:16, -0500 Message-ID: <199807030417.AAA14496@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>bob, when you refer to hummers are you refering to humming birds? i have thought that it would be great way to decorate the glass in the leaded window, to fuse designs into the glass before cutting out and putting into the panel. kim << Yes, hummers = humming birds. Cut a graceful body shape, three feathers for a tail and six for a wing. A black or dark green for the eye and beak is nice. I ALWAYS use cranberry for the throat. By overlapping the glass it is not necessary to use a backing plate but I like to do so for strength. By changing the angle of the wing(s) and tail the bird is changed greatly. I often fuse on coarse shelf paper for a good texture effect. Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 2 23:45:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 21:37:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: email.msn.com!bird_cage From: "Doug Parrott" To: Subject: insurance for fairs Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 21:37:43 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul2.143743.0> Precedence: bulk last week I asked for input on insurance for fairs. (or maybe it was the week before that... i don't remember... I'm getting old) Anyway I just wanted to share with you about one of the Company's I found. It is with R.L.I. insurance and is available through independent insurance agents who belong to "Independent Insurance Agency" It is $150 a year for $300,000 liability coverage. $1,000,000 coverage is also available. Most agents don't know about it, however if they are a member of IIA, they can contact IIA for the coverage. I found out about this because I am an agent for non-standard auto and our agency is a member of IIA. I was at an IIA function and it was brought up. I do the insurance thing two days a week to help support my stained glass habit. Just thought I'd pass this on. cheryl bird_cage@msn.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 3 00:07:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 21:34:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: re:topic of the week Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 00:33:05, -0500 Message-ID: <199807030433.AAA14422@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>i have a quick fire and have had it for about 6 years sitting in the box in the closet. i got it out recently to fire up and it would not fire. no heat. annybody have this happen before? so i work in my larger kiln for now. i would sure like to fire up the little one if possible.<< The best I can think is that you are plugging into a switch controlled wall socket. Plug into a known hot circuit. Of coures the line switch must be on. If this fails and you are not into electric troubleshooting then take it to a small apliance repairman. Perhaps you only have a loose connection where the line cord makes up with the element. >>also another dilemma with my paragon. it has a computer box that i program the temp and rate of increase temp and am not sure if it is possible to program it to soak at any specific temp for 15 min or whatever is needed. i find myself just reprogramming it up several times . does any one else have to deal with this dilemma.<< Need model number for your Paragon controller, Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 3 11:16:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 10:12:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: Joan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: topic of the week Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 13:04:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul3.9444.0> References: <<1998Jul2.184844.0>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Yup, my experience too, but I figured the difference is about 200 deg. This is just by seat of the pants reckoning. And, don't get a phone call in the middle-I was away for 6 extra minutes this morning and the 4 in the kiln made nice flat puddles, instead of the nice fused look I was after. Of the 4 maybe one is salvageable. They are very small though, so most lost is the time. It takes 2-3 hours for the little kiln to cool enough to take the pieces out. So will try again tonight, with an overnight cool down. Any one try the glass to metal (sterling or gold) fusing??? Please let us know about the lampworking class, Joan, I will be trying to teach myself this summer from video's with a hot head torch and morretti rod to start. I want to see if I like it before going into the expense of a bench burner. (That needs hoses, regulators, tanks) Does anyone have such an outfit they would like to sell at a really reasonable price??? Also, I'm checking out the hot glass sites, where there is ample info on fusing and lampworking. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations Joan wrote: > > > One concern I have is that the pyrometer seems to be inaccurate... It > indicates temps higher than I know, from experience, that they probably > are. For instance, when I want a full fuse, the temp on the > quick-fire's pyrometer is between 1700-1750 F. I KNOW it's probably not > really that hot. Has anyone else had that experience with their > quick-fire. I called Paragon and they said this is normal for these > little kilns, because of the difference in heat in the glass on the kiln > shelf, and where the pyrometer enters the kiln, which is at the top of > the muffle. I have gotten used to this in most applications, but when I > want to try using something new... i.e. fire-on gold paint or lustres, > which specify a specific temp., it's kind of by-guess and by-golly. > Does anyone else have this discrepancy, and, if so, how do you deal with > estimating the "real" temps??? > > I've mostly been lurking on this list for a few months, but I've really > learned a lot. I'm scheduled to take a lampworking class at Horizons > (in Mass.) in August and I have a feeling that will generate a whole > host of questions. > > I think this "Topic of the Week" idea is great, particularly since you > picked one that is near and dear to me! Lee, please let us all know how > the jewelry came out!!! > > Joan > Beadnik Jewelry Creations > Connecticut > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: topic of the week > Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 13:31:48 -0400 > From: leestat7 > Organization: @Home Network > To: Howard and Elaine Rubin > References: <<1998Jul2.11339.0>> > > Yes, topic of the week is a good idea, IMHO, must have missed the > suggestion before. Since I'm doing my first fusing With my little > Paragon Quick Fire Kiln-(it is on soak right now). May I suggest the > thread- > > Experiences with Quick Fire table top Kilns??? There are two or three > brands, all somewhat similar. This one goes to 1500 in about 7 minutes. > > So Here goes, > > Lee Boe > Rain-Boe's Creations > > Howard and Elaine Rubin wrote: > > > > Just a friendly reminder of a suggestion which may not be implemented, > > > > Be nice to put in the subject line: Non glass: (put topic here) > > > > makes the inbox helper feel wanted and useful. > > > > thanks, H > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 3 17:15:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 16:24:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: BOB DUCHESNEAU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Not Glass-Pray if you will Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 18:19:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul3.141919.0> References: <<199807030417.AAA14496@mime3.prodigy.com>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk I am on the west coast of Florida, not in Danger, but at 3 pm this afternoon, the Governor ordered the complete evacuation of TWO Whole counties on the east coast. About 75,000 people, animals, everything. Flagler and Volusia counties. 125 miles of I95 are closed from Titusville to Jacksonville, and many local roads are closed also. The three major fires are converging and may burn all the way to the ocean. WOW. My prayers are with all the displaced, and hope you all will join me. Rain, Rain, please Rain. 320,000 acres are burned so far. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 4 01:57:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:54:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7290513C2490D0450AE151B0" Subject: Re:Not Glass Pray Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 00:50:39 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul3.175039.0> Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7290513C2490D0450AE151B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lee Boe wrote: I am on the west coast of Florida, not in Danger, but at 3 pm this afternoon, the Governor ordered the complete evacuation of TWO Whole counties on the east coast. About 75,000 people, animals, everything. Hi everyone, Sure wish I could send you some of our pacific northwest rain! Have been praying for all of you and hope for some resolution soon! If you need any help of some sort don't hesitate to ask. I'm a long way away but I think alot of us in the group would be happy to help any way we can. Is there a service group that is taking supplies for the displaced? All I know is what I've read, we don't watch the news on t.v. anymore. I'd like to send something but don't know where. Could you let me know Lee? I'm supposing that there were folks who still lit those fireworks on the 4th in Florida. Such a shame, I'm praying for you! See you, Pam --------------7290513C2490D0450AE151B0 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Pamela Burns-Tappan Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Pamela Burns-Tappan n: Burns-Tappan;Pamela org: Moswood Mountain Limited adr: http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html;;http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html;;;;USA email;internet: ptap@pacifier.com title: President x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------7290513C2490D0450AE151B0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 4 02:10:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 01:13:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: Stained Glass Artists , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------78C0B58937747C7DDB229651" Subject: New glass hobbyist gallery Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 01:10:36 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul3.181036.0> Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------78C0B58937747C7DDB229651 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone, Just thought I'd let you know that you can submit a photo for our hobby gallery. Any takers on this one! Dare, Dare. I decided that some people would maybe like to show some of their art work, related to glass, so the option is open if you want to do this. Here is the page that will showcase your artwork. I know there is nobody there. I just did the page today. So send me a pic, will ya! I know the bungi group has a gallery provided by Daniel but this is just another option. http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/hobby.html Sincerely, Pam --------------78C0B58937747C7DDB229651 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Pamela Burns-Tappan Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Pamela Burns-Tappan n: Burns-Tappan;Pamela org: Moswood Mountain Limited adr: http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html;;http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html;;;;USA email;internet: ptap@pacifier.com title: President x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------78C0B58937747C7DDB229651-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 4 07:13:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 06:16:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Quick Fire Kilns Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 09:08:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul4.5836.0> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi Everyone, The second fusing yesterday went just fine, didn't get called away at the wrong time. Thanks to everyone who replied to the call for help and prayers, the main agency coordinating help for all the displaced people is the American Red Cross 1-800-HELP-NOW OR ON THE INTERNET AT: http://www.redcross.org Sale and use of personal fireworks banned for the whole state, it is all as dry as the east coast. Professional displays are mostly scheduled over the oceans or lakes and are going on. CNN and the local stations are doing a good job of covering the disaster. More info is available by doing a search for Florida Television stations, most have web sites. Back to Glass, I really like this little kiln, fires fast, easy to use, not much elec. needed. I'm trying to get some Christmas ornaments done for the Christmas in July show I'm doing. Thank you all again, the out pouring of help and prayers has been wonderful. I'll answer each individually direct off bungi. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 4 09:04:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 08:10:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Leslye2 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: basics of design help needed Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 11:09:41 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul4.15941.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all, My name is Leslye and I am getting back into glass after a 6 yr break to start a family. I had 8 years experience before that. We have now built our house complete with a room for my studio. Yeah! We built the front entrance with plans for me to design and make the panals. We have a 2 half light side lights with a half light door. I plan to have bevels in all three windows and a border or two on the door. Are there any sites (or books) for education in geometric design principles? Do any of you have any words of wisdom? It is distressing to realize how much I have forgotten. Thanks for your help, Leslye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 4 10:07:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 09:18:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Leslye2@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: basics of design help needed Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 12:17:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul4.8175.0> References: <<1998Jul4.15941.0>> Precedence: bulk Leslye2@aol.com wrote: > > Hi all, > My name is Leslye and I am getting back into glass after a 6 yr break to start > a family. I had 8 years experience before that. We have now built our house > complete with a room for my studio. Yeah! > > We built the front entrance with plans for me to design and make the panals. > We have a 2 half light side lights with a half light door. I plan to have > bevels in all three windows and a border or two on the door. > > Are there any sites (or books) for education in geometric design principles? > Do any of you have any words of wisdom? It is distressing to realize how much > I have forgotten. > > Thanks for your help, > Leslye > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well i don't really have any designing stuff, but i have plenty of stained glass tips on my page http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/ ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 4 13:09:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 12:19:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PDRUSS From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Not Glass --Pray Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 15:15:12 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul4.191512.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-07-04 04:58:21 EDT, you write: << Is there a service group that is taking supplies for the displaced? All I know is what I've read, we don't watch the news on t.v. anymore. I'd like to send something but don't know where. >> The American Red Cross is doing a wonderful job helping the fire victims. If you would like to help, please donate to your local American Red Cross one of many web sites. http://www.arccf.org/fire62398.html **Do Not** mark checks "FL fire victims" or any other special cause, this can cause problems later down the line for the Red Cross. Dianne Jacksonville, FL pdruss@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 4 13:38:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 12:50:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PDRUSS From: To: PDRUSS@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Off topic--florida on fire--July 4th Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 15:47:35 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul4.194735.0> Precedence: bulk Here's some news from the FL newspaper. Dianne Jacksonville, FL Hundreds of wildfires continue to burn along the First Coast, displacing at least 112,000 people in three counties - including Flagler, where everyone was evacuated. As three firestorms devoured Flagler County yesterday, police stations and jails emptied, nursing homes and hospitals moved patients, an oceanarium shut down and 40,000 residents fled. Only firefighters were left to battle the flames - 5,000 degrees at the head of the storms - but they, too, waited for the word to retreat to a safe location. The rest of the story is at: http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/070498/met_1a1FIRE_.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 4 18:45:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 18:03:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: 4th of July Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 18:02:08 PDT Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Hi everyone,.. Happy 4th of July to all Americans... -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 5 04:50:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 04:35:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Lubee2 From: To: Leslye2@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: basics of design help needed Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 07:34:24 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul5.113424.0> Precedence: bulk This is a bit more expensive than a book, but if you are interested There is a computer program I have read about that may more than meet your needs since you want to incorporate bevels. It is a CAD program American Bevel Incorporated had created called Designer 2.0. It runs on Windows 95, and allows you to work freehand or by scanning....Needless to say the available bevel clusters are icorporated into the program for your use. The article I read even says that the program has glass from a number of different companies in it so you can see what your design will look like in different colors....Now the kicker is that it is$175, though with the project you have it may be worth the cost....You can download a demo copy from their website at www:americanbevel.com. Sharon ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 5 08:49:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 08:33:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: basics of design help needed Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 11:32:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul5.73217.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:Leslye2@aol.com >Are there any sites (or books) for education in geometric design principles? Do any of you have any words of wisdom? It is distressing to realize how= much I have forgotten.< First, measure the dimension of the panel. Then select a bevel cluster which is smaller than those dimensions. As far as geometric design principles, the best advice I ever received was the power of three. Seems the most pleasing & professional looking designs divide the overall dimensions into groupings of three rather than groupings of two. For instance, since you mentioned a half-sized sidelight setting, I would suggestion you do three bevels for each sidelight. Select a pretty, fancy bevel cluster to be your middle one, and then two other single bevels which somehow reflect the major design in the bevel cluster. But make these two other bevels smaller than the primary bevel cluster. Position them equidistance from each other, allowing same distance from the top and bottom of the panel to the bevel. You can divide the overall length by 4 to give you where to place the 3 lines. The 4th division line becomes the top of the panel. Now divide the width by 2. Draw intersecting lines. Now place the major bevel cluster directly atop the center cross hairs. Place the other 2 bevels on the other 2 cross hairs. Now add any break lines required by the bevel clusters. If you want a formal geometric look, make sure the right side mirrors the left side, and the top third mirrors the bottom third. If you want a less-formal geometric look, work with diagonals of varying angels and lengths. Add in occasional curves and throw in some jewels. Have some fun! Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 5 14:20:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 13:45:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, kleeman@one.net Subject: Re: Quick Fire Kilns Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 16:43:11, -0500 Message-ID: <199807052043.QAA16998@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>bob after the glass is fused, is it harder to score and break? i am playing around with some ideas similar to the one you described, but did not know how the glass would break after firing thanx debbie taylor<< Well deb it just all depends. If you keep the kiln closed and allow it to cool naturally from anneal (generally about 950'F) to below 700'F the glass is likely to cut like butter. It may in fact cut better than the unfused glass. On the other hand, flash cooling the kiln in the above range will tend to temper the glass and make cutting difficult. I do not like the Quick fire kilns for firing more than two layers of 1/8th" glass due to the inadequate cooling characteristics for thicker glasses. Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 5 14:48:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 14:15:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: Joan Subject: Re: topic of the week Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 21:43:40 +0100 Message-ID: <1998Jul5.224340.0> References: <<1998Jul2.184844.0@?>> Precedence: bulk In message <1998Jul2.184844.0@?>, Joan writes '.................' > >One concern I have is that the pyrometer seems to be inaccurate... It >indicates temps higher than I know, from experience, that they probably >are. For instance, when I want a full fuse, the temp on the >quick-fire's pyrometer is between 1700-1750 F. I KNOW it's probably not >really that hot. Has anyone else had that experience with their >quick-fire. I called Paragon and they said this is normal for these >little kilns, because of the difference in heat in the glass on the kiln >shelf, and where the pyrometer enters the kiln, which is at the top of >the muffle. I have gotten used to this in most applications, but when I >want to try using something new... i.e. fire-on gold paint or lustres, >which specify a specific temp., it's kind of by-guess and by-golly. >Does anyone else have this discrepancy, and, if so, how do you deal with >estimating the "real" temps??? > I've never had one of these "quick fire" things, because they loose heat so quickly too. But I have had to calibrate my temp. readout. I did this by using the cones which ceramics people use. Some of the lower temp ones are in the range for glass work. See when the cone falls, and compare the read out. Then you have a difference between that part of the kiln temp and the readout. place other cones at different levels and parts of the kiln for other differences. Steve -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 5 15:19:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 14:55:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bio # 33 Brandon Jones (UK) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 04:56:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul4.23568.0> Precedence: bulk Hi everybody. Very brief information about me I think. I am a member of the academic staff of the university in the school of Electronic and Electrical Engineering. My interest in glass goes back a few years in the form of pushing glass to optical wavelengths not cutting and forming glass as the group interest is.I am new to this side of glass and at present I am basically spending several months researching methods before attempting even a first design mainly for installation in my own house for my own pleasure. I have always been practical, a compulsive hobbyist in some form or another and come from a family that most of the members are craft skilled in either hobby or professional contexts. As far as hobbies are concerned I usually achieve reasonable skill levels but never perfectionist skill levels and expect to do the same with coloured glass in whatever I choose to attempt in the future as projects. The group in general seems very friendly and informative in the time that I have been lurking. The flames and the clashes are perfectly normal in the context of variety in human psychology that I understand and have been identical in all the other lists or groups that I have attended in many years into the past in other hobbies or work related subjects..it will never change. I think I will now go back to lurking but I will drop in if I think I have 2 cents to add to the discussions or if I need to pose a question in future. Nice to meet you all over the magic wire.. Brandon S. Jones ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 5 15:48:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 15:10:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------33BAE7D3F4DD86E22F5C4AE4" Subject: Re:Site for picture submission Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 15:07:54 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul5.8754.0> Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------33BAE7D3F4DD86E22F5C4AE4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Well Lee was the first one to take me up on the hobby site I've added. Check out his work and send me some more pic's. He's all alone in there! How about all of the bungi lurkers? Yes you, we know you are there we can here you breathing! http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/hobby.html P.S. I know I wouldn't call Lee a hobbyist either more of a pro hobbyist actually, but the page is for everyone. Could be your first creation in stained glass that has a special meaning for you or whatever. And I heard that Florida may get a respite soon! Hooray! Those glasses of wine and rain dance we did last night must have helped! See ya, Pam --------------33BAE7D3F4DD86E22F5C4AE4 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Pamela Burns-Tappan Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Pamela Burns-Tappan n: Burns-Tappan;Pamela org: Moswood Mountain Limited adr: http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html;;http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html;;;;USA email;internet: ptap@pacifier.com title: President x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------33BAE7D3F4DD86E22F5C4AE4-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 5 16:06:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 15:14:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bio# 34 Karlene? (Hill I think) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 05:14:15 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul5.01415.0> Precedence: bulk I am 42 and only been into glass for 4yrs as strictly a hobbiest. Have only been with the Bungi Group for a month. I am a little shy and self conscience of my level. The level of egotistical attitudes they know their stuff and are quick to tell you so. So as said my Bio would not be very interesting to most of the group. Local girl married high school sweetheart for 23 years have 2 daughters. I have worked at a local hospital as unit secretary for 25 years. No major moves in life or high degrees. Just a big glass lover for many years and had a great opportunity to learn the "art/craft" thru a local store. Since getting this computer for the family at Christmas have expanded my knowledge thru this group and many wonderful sites. Karlene Personal note from Patrick: Karlene has been working the second shift and obviously has limited time and was not in a very creative mood when she went me this bio. Thanks for the bio Karlene. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 5 16:55:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 16:11:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: topic of the week Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 19:09:15, -0500 Message-ID: <199807052309.TAA12810@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>I've never had one of these "quick fire" things, because they loose heat so quickly too. But I have had to calibrate my temp. readout. I did this by using the cones which ceramics people use. Some of the lower temp ones are in the range for glass work. See when the cone falls, and compare the read out. Then you have a difference between that part of the kiln temp and the readout. place other cones at different levels and parts of the kiln for other differences. Steve<< Pyrometric cones go off based on temperature AND rate of temperature assent. They will always read high when used in a Quick Fire Kiln. Large cones are calibrated to read at 108'F or 270'F per hour and small cones read at 540'F per hour. Much much to slow for the Quick Fire. I agree with previous statements that these kilns read about 200'F higher than shelf temperature. The rate of assent and decent may be slowed somewhat by using a shelf. Also scrap glass can be placed in the kiln to increase the mass being heated or cooled. So fill up the shelf with 1/4" scrap. The rates will be slowed by about 25% which is a good thing. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *If they were not ment to be fleeced, then why were they created sheep?* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 5 18:22:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 17:52:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: onns.net!camcomm From: To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: The LOWEST Price In America Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 17:51:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <989.283923.690785 camcomm@onns.net> Precedence: bulk NOW... The LOWEST Price In America... What are you paying per minute for long distance phone service (s) ? We've got the BEST price in America: 8.9 Cents Per Minute 24 Hours A Day 7 Days A Week 6 Second Billing No Monthly Billing Fees No Gimmicks AND This is NOT a " promotional price " just to get you to switch...We don't play games ! We have 888 Toll Free Numbers With The Same LOW Price OF 8.9 Cents Per Minute, FEATURING: 6 Second Billing No Set-Up Fees Rings Into Your Existing Number Our Calling Card Has A Super Rate Of 14.9 Cents Per Minute And Features 6 Second Billing & NO Surcharges ! Business Or Residential - Same Low Rate ! Pay More Elsewhere... OR Call US to get the BEST Price Going ! We'll Give You All Of The Details And Answer All Of Your Questions... 1-888-333-4943 (Toll-Free) Monday - Saturday 12 NOON - 10 PM EASTERN P. S. Do Your Rates Automatically Go Down, When YOUR Long Distance Carrier Has A Lower/Better Price - Our's DO !!! NOTE: IF LINES ARE BUSY - KEEP TRYING ! WE RECEIVE BETWEEN 300 AND 1000 CALLS PER DAY. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 5 18:49:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 18:10:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: webtv.net!Beadnik2 From: Beadnik2@webtv.net (Joan) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: topic of the week Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 21:07:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1998Jul5.17720.0> Precedence: bulk Bob wrote: >I agree with previous statements that these >kilns read about 200'F higher than shelf >temperature. Yes, that has been my experience also. However, I wonder whether this is consistent through the range of temps. At fusing temps (approx. 1500F) this is certainly true, but what about around the 1000F range. If my pyrometer reads 1000F on the Quick-Fire am I to assume that it is really only 800F... somehow, I think the lower the temp, the less the difference becomes. Anyone else have any info or opinions on this? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 5 19:53:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 19:14:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!GlsWorks From: To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Coca-Cola Lamp Shade Pattern Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 22:13:32 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul6.21332.0> Precedence: bulk I am searching for a Coca-Cola Lamp Shade Pattern that Worden sold a few years ago. Does anyone know where I might it? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 6 05:58:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 05:39:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: city-net.com!dany From: "Daniela Birkelbach" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Skutt Octagon Kiln - kiln questions Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 08:37:38 -0400 Message-ID: <199807061229.IAA16497@dns.city-net.com> Precedence: bulk Hi everyone! Does anyone on this list have the Skutt Octagon Kiln? I am able to buy it relatively cheap and wanted to ask a few questions. I am just now learning about kilns and many of my questions will be stupid (this is a warning!). I would like to have a kiln to make not only small items but also plates, platters, and possibly items with more depth than that. My main questions are 1. Do I have to have a ramp master with this kiln? I'm asking since this is almost the same price as the kiln itself. 2. Do I need to buy a pyrometer with it? 3. There is a kiln that works on 120 Volt (Paragon GF-8B, Manual Control), with the same dimensions as the Skutt Octagon, it just takes longer to fire up. Will it have the same capabilities? This model is top-fired. 4. The Skutt is side-fired. Which is better for fusing/slumping? Where should the heat-elements be? 5. Which book(s) would you recommend to learn about fusing since unfortunately my suppliers don't offer any classes yet. I know these are a lot of questions - if they've already been answered I'd be happy to look in the archives if anyone could give me an idea when that was. Thanks for any help! Dany Daniela Birkelbach Software Consultant dany@city-net.com http://www.city-net.com/~dany ********************************************************************** Many new pictures up on my Stained Glass Pages. Please come and visit! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 6 06:16:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 05:40:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Summertime Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 08:37:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul6.43717.0> Precedence: bulk is vacation time. I too am going away for a couple of weeks, so don't get too chatty. I'm headed for a family reunion/50th wedding anniversary (my parents) party. We're headed for Vermont and I notice along the way that we can stop at Simon Pearce Glass and watch glass blowers. Sounds like a good break in the trip. I have noticed on other trips to Vermont that there is a state craft organization with craft stores (I think there's one in downtown Burlington). It's nice to have that statewide organization, but the prices in the stores are obviously "tourist prices" -- high enough to make me laugh (or cry!). Anyone on the list from Vermont -- knows about these stores, etc... Dorothy K ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 6 16:19:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:35:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: intel.com!lynice.spangler From: "Spangler, Lynice" To: "'glass@bungi.com'" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: topic of the week Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:35:07 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul6.8357.0> Precedence: bulk Copper is the only metal I know of with a COE close enough to 90 to use with 90 COE glass. I have fired copper spirals (made from stripped telephone wire) in clear and they turned sort of purple. I have also used thicker copper wire fused in the top of a small piece as a hanging loop (earring, pendant, christmas ornament) and it turns color as well. However, if the copper is outside the glass (as in the case of the loops) you can sandblast it back to copper color... L. Spangler On Friday, July 03, 1998 10:05 AM, leestat7 [SMTP:leestat7@home.com] wrote: > Yup, my experience too, but I figured the difference is about 200 deg. > This is just by seat of the pants reckoning. And, don't get a phone call > in the middle-I was away for 6 extra minutes this morning and the 4 in > the kiln made nice flat puddles, instead of the nice fused look I was > after. Of the 4 maybe one is salvageable. They are very small though, > so most lost is the time. It takes 2-3 hours for the little kiln to > cool enough to take the pieces out. So will try again tonight, with an > overnight cool down. Any one try the glass to metal (sterling or gold) > fusing??? > > Please let us know about the lampworking class, Joan, I will be trying > to teach myself this summer from video's with a hot head torch and > morretti rod to start. I want to see if I like it before going into the > expense of a bench burner. (That needs hoses, regulators, tanks) Does > anyone have such an outfit they would like to sell at a really > reasonable price??? > > Also, I'm checking out the hot glass sites, where there is ample info on > fusing and lampworking. > > Lee Boe > Rain-Boe's Creations > > > Joan wrote: > > > > > > > One concern I have is that the pyrometer seems to be inaccurate... It > > indicates temps higher than I know, from experience, that they probably > > are. For instance, when I want a full fuse, the temp on the > > quick-fire's pyrometer is between 1700-1750 F. I KNOW it's probably not > > really that hot. Has anyone else had that experience with their > > quick-fire. I called Paragon and they said this is normal for these > > little kilns, because of the difference in heat in the glass on the kiln > > shelf, and where the pyrometer enters the kiln, which is at the top of > > the muffle. I have gotten used to this in most applications, but when I > > want to try using something new... i.e. fire-on gold paint or lustres, > > which specify a specific temp., it's kind of by-guess and by-golly. > > Does anyone else have this discrepancy, and, if so, how do you deal with > > estimating the "real" temps??? > > > > I've mostly been lurking on this list for a few months, but I've really > > learned a lot. I'm scheduled to take a lampworking class at Horizons > > (in Mass.) in August and I have a feeling that will generate a whole > > host of questions. > > > > I think this "Topic of the Week" idea is great, particularly since you > > picked one that is near and dear to me! Lee, please let us all know how > > the jewelry came out!!! > > > > Joan > > Beadnik Jewelry Creations > > Connecticut > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Subject: Re: topic of the week > > Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 13:31:48 -0400 > > From: leestat7 > > Organization: @Home Network > > To: Howard and Elaine Rubin > > References: <<1998Jul2.11339.0>> > > > > Yes, topic of the week is a good idea, IMHO, must have missed the > > suggestion before. Since I'm doing my first fusing With my little > > Paragon Quick Fire Kiln-(it is on soak right now). May I suggest the > > thread- > > > > Experiences with Quick Fire table top Kilns??? There are two or three > > brands, all somewhat similar. This one goes to 1500 in about 7 minutes. > > > > So Here goes, > > > > Lee Boe > > Rain-Boe's Creations > > > > Howard and Elaine Rubin wrote: > > > > > > Just a friendly reminder of a suggestion which may not be implemented, > > > > > > Be nice to put in the subject line: Non glass: (put topic here) > > > > > > makes the inbox helper feel wanted and useful. > > > > > > thanks, H > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 6 16:53:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:54:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: intel.com!lynice.spangler From: "Spangler, Lynice" To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: RE: Skutt Octagon Kiln - kiln questions Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:52:26 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul6.85226.0> Precedence: bulk On Monday, July 06, 1998 5:38 AM, Daniela Birkelbach [SMTP:dany@city-net.com] wrote: > Hi everyone! > > Does anyone on this list have the Skutt Octagon Kiln? yes > > My main questions are > 1. Do I have to have a ramp master with this kiln? I'm asking since this > is almost the same price as the kiln itself. If the ramp master is an electronic controller, you don't have to have one to use the kiln. However, you will have to be very attentive and stay close to your kiln to keep track of ramp times, soak times, temperatures. Be prepared to spend many hours near your kiln (assembling projects, reading, etc.). An egg timer can be a very handy tool to remind you to check the kiln at intervals. > > 2. Do I need to buy a pyrometer with it? You need a way to measure the temperature inside the kiln. I don't know of any way other than an electronic controller or a pyrometer. > > > 4. The Skutt is side-fired. Which is better for fusing/slumping? Where > should the heat-elements be? I've seen top-fired recommended for glass because the glass heats up more evenly. On a side-fired the outside edges of the glass heat up sooner than the middle. I have a side-fired, however, and it's working just fine. During the up-to-1000 ramp, if you are venting off organic residue, the top-fired will take longer to heat up. But if you have a large piece in the side fired, you have ramp up and down more slower due to the temperature gradient. > > 5. Which book(s) would you recommend to learn about fusing since > unfortunately my suppliers don't offer any classes yet. We have Gil Reynolds "Fused Glass Handbook" and Boyce Lundstrom's "Kiln Firing Glass". > > > Good luck, fusing is a blast! L. Spangler ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 6 18:24:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 16:54:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: webtv.net!Beadnik2 From: Beadnik2@webtv.net (Joan) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Topic of the Week Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 19:53:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1998Jul6.155317.0> Precedence: bulk >Copper is the only metal I know of with a COE >close enough to 90 to use with 90 COE glass. >I >have fired copper spirals (made from stripped >telephone wire) in clear and they turned sort of >purple. I have also used thicker copper wire >fused in the top of a small piece as a hanging >loop (earring, pendant, christmas ornament) >and it turns color as well. However, if the >copper is outside the glass (as in the case of >the loops) you can sandblast it back to copper >color... > >L. Spangler I tried a test firing on a very small piece of glass incorporating fine silver. The silver did not oxidize and appeared shiney and "silvery" looking, both in the portion encased in clear glass and the portion I left extending out of the glass. I have not tried this on a larger piece... not sure how the difference in COE might effect it. Joan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 6 21:20:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 20:33:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Not Glass-Pray if you will Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:28:04 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul7.3284.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-07-03 20:17:00 EDT, you write: > Rain, Rain, please Rain. 320,000 acres are burned so far. > well here I am in Florida got here sunday nite, yes we brought some rain with us .... enough to have to drive through 4 accidents in less then 10 miles. Interstate 95 as you all know is closed but they have routed trafic through to interstate 75 and to the florida turnpike (which is FREE if anyone wants to know they are just waving you through) I'm in orlando but fires are somewhere close here now too. Only briefly caught it on the news I don't think it is part of the major fires a little bit east of us though. We had thunderstorms today, which is a little bad with the good (lightening is a BIG no no) Our prayers are with you all and hopefully there is an end to this soon deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 7 00:19:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:46:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LuvArtGlas From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; Subject: Fwd: Coca-Cola Lamp Shade Pattern Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 02:44:09 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul7.6449.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_899793849_boundary Content-ID: <0_899793849@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From owner-glass Tue Jul 7 03:21:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 03:01:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: To: LuvArtGlas@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Coca-Cola Lamp Shade Pattern Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 05:58:51 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul7.95851.0> Precedence: bulk FYI, only received a few lines of garble on this E-mail. Am interested in what you tried to say. Know someone who would love a Coke lampshade! Can you try again? Is it my server? or what? Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 7 09:51:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 09:28:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Topic of the Week Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 12:21:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul7.82123.0> References: <<1998Jul6.155317.0>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi Joan, Did you use sheet silver, or casting grain (fine silver, not sterling). Just had the idea of encasing a couple of 'grains' in some bullseye glass as an experiment. The copper wire I've fused in for hangers works fine but turns a 'blackish' which I think I can just polish off, to get the copper color again. Does anyone know about using Hanovia gold paint on glass? firing temp>? Here is some instructions for the little kilns, when it reaches 500 deg turn off about 5 min to let the glass soak, then back on up to fusing temp. Fusing occurs between 1300 and 1700 depending on the glass. So far the spectrum I already have (not rated) is fusing fine with other spectrum, as is the bullseye to bullseye. Reorganized my work space so fusing can go on on one bench while I'm cutting, soldering on another. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations > > I tried a test firing on a very small piece of glass incorporating fine > silver. The silver did not oxidize and appeared shiney and "silvery" > looking, both in the portion encased in clear glass and the portion I > left extending out of the glass. I have not tried this on a larger > piece... not sure how the difference in COE might effect it. > > Joan > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 7 11:24:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:50:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: webtv.net!Beadnik2 From: Beadnik2@webtv.net (Joan) To: leestat7@home.com (leestat7) Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Topic of the Week Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 13:44:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1998Jul7.94412.0> Precedence: bulk Lee wrote: >Did you use sheet silver, or casting grain (fine >silver, not sterling). Just had the idea of >encasing a couple of 'grains' in some bullseye >glass as an experiment. Actually, I used 24 ga. round wire, which was all I had on hand at the time. >Here is some instructions for the little kilns, >when it reaches 500 deg turn off about 5 min to >let the glass soak, then back on up to fusing >temp. Fusing occurs between 1300 and 1700 >depending on the glass. I use the Paragon PCB-1 controller with my kiln. I start it off at #2 for 1/2 hr., which brings the temp to approx 1100F (on the quick fire pyrometer) . I then turn the controller to 3.5 or 4, and let it ascend for between 12 and 15 mins. depending on what I am trying to do... i.e. full fuse, tack fuse, etc. When the pyrometer gets close to what I want, I peek inside. Once it has fused to my satisfaction, I unplug the kiln, and flash vent it to about 1300F. I replace the muffle, and let it cool to room temp, which takes approx 4 hrs. This procedure works well for me and is relatively hassle free. I religiously use a digital kitchen timer, and haven't had any meltdowns yet!!! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 7 11:46:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 11:05:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: webtv.net!Beadnik2 From: Beadnik2@webtv.net (Joan) To: YWAH36A@prodigy.com (BOB DUCHESNEAU) Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Quick Fire Kilns Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 13:53:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1998Jul7.95327.0> Precedence: bulk >after the glass is fused, is it harder to score and >break? i am playing around with some ideas >similar to the one you described, but >did not know how the glass would break after >firing thanx >debbie taylor<< >Well deb it just all depends. If you keep the kiln >closed and allow it to cool naturally from anneal >(generally about 950'F) to below 700'F the glass i>s likely to cut like butter. It may in fact cut better >than the unfused glass. >On the other hand, flash cooling the kiln in the >above range will tend to temper the glass and >make cutting difficult. Bob, I was particularly interested in your response to Deb that flash venting tends to temper the glass and make it more difficult to score. Would this principle apply to drilling holes in the glass as well? I have been having some difficulty lately and never realized it may be because I am inadvertently tempering the glass when I flash vent it. I drill very small holes (with a diamond bit in a dremel under water) in relatively thin glass that has been fire-polished in the kiln. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 7 11:58:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 11:09:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Topic of the Week Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 13:55:56 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul7.95556.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Joan >I tried a test firing on a very small piece of glass incorporating fine silver. The silver did not oxidize and appeared shiney and "silvery" looking, both in the portion encased in clear glass and the portion I left extending out of the glass. I have not tried this on a larger piece... not sure how the difference in COE might effect it.< I sell some fused/slumped pieces by Debra J. Van Tol in which it looks like she embeds silver foil and gold paint. They also look nice and "silvery" and "goldish" respectively. I also sell some fused/enameled pieces by Nell Reeves in which she embeds copper wire between clear glass layers, as well as doing copper enamel work. Very nice. Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 7 12:23:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 11:46:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: "Spangler, Lynice" Subject: Re: topic of the week Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:35:56 +0100 Message-ID: <1998Jul7.203556.0> References: <<1998Jul6.8357.0@?>> Precedence: bulk Hi, I've found that brass wire and foil works with glass to. The exposed parts need tohave the corrosion removed, but that under the glass is bright. Steve In message <1998Jul6.8357.0@?>, "Spangler, Lynice" writes >Copper is the only metal I know of with a COE close enough to 90 to use >with 90 COE glass. I have fired copper spirals (made from stripped >telephone wire) in clear and they turned sort of purple. I have also used >thicker copper wire fused in the top of a small piece as a hanging loop >(earring, pendant, christmas ornament) and it turns color as well. However, >if the copper is outside the glass (as in the case of the loops) you can >sandblast it back to copper color... > >L. Spangler > >On Friday, July 03, 1998 10:05 AM, leestat7 [SMTP:leestat7@home.com] wrote: >> Yup, my experience too, but I figured the difference is about 200 deg. >> This is just by seat of the pants reckoning. And, don't get a phone call >> in the middle-I was away for 6 extra minutes this morning and the 4 in >> the kiln made nice flat puddles, instead of the nice fused look I was >> after. Of the 4 maybe one is salvageable. They are very small though, >> so most lost is the time. It takes 2-3 hours for the little kiln to >> cool enough to take the pieces out. So will try again tonight, with an >> overnight cool down. Any one try the glass to metal (sterling or gold) >> fusing??? >> >> Please let us know about the lampworking class, Joan, I will be trying >> to teach myself this summer from video's with a hot head torch and >> morretti rod to start. I want to see if I like it before going into the >> expense of a bench burner. (That needs hoses, regulators, tanks) Does >> anyone have such an outfit they would like to sell at a really >> reasonable price??? >> >> Also, I'm checking out the hot glass sites, where there is ample info on >> fusing and lampworking. >> >> Lee Boe >> Rain-Boe's Creations >> >> >> Joan wrote: >> > >> >> > >> > One concern I have is that the pyrometer seems to be inaccurate... It >> > indicates temps higher than I know, from experience, that they probably >> > are. For instance, when I want a full fuse, the temp on the >> > quick-fire's pyrometer is between 1700-1750 F. I KNOW it's probably not >> > really that hot. Has anyone else had that experience with their >> > quick-fire. I called Paragon and they said this is normal for these >> > little kilns, because of the difference in heat in the glass on the kiln >> > shelf, and where the pyrometer enters the kiln, which is at the top of >> > the muffle. I have gotten used to this in most applications, but when I >> > want to try using something new... i.e. fire-on gold paint or lustres, >> > which specify a specific temp., it's kind of by-guess and by-golly. >> > Does anyone else have this discrepancy, and, if so, how do you deal with >> > estimating the "real" temps??? >> > >> > I've mostly been lurking on this list for a few months, but I've really >> > learned a lot. I'm scheduled to take a lampworking class at Horizons >> > (in Mass.) in August and I have a feeling that will generate a whole >> > host of questions. >> > >> > I think this "Topic of the Week" idea is great, particularly since you >> > picked one that is near and dear to me! Lee, please let us all know how >> > the jewelry came out!!! >> > >> > Joan >> > Beadnik Jewelry Creations >> > Connecticut >> > >> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > >> > Subject: Re: topic of the week >> > Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 13:31:48 -0400 >> > From: leestat7 >> > Organization: @Home Network >> > To: Howard and Elaine Rubin >> > References: <<1998Jul2.11339.0>> >> > >> > Yes, topic of the week is a good idea, IMHO, must have missed the >> > suggestion before. Since I'm doing my first fusing With my little >> > Paragon Quick Fire Kiln-(it is on soak right now). May I suggest the >> > thread- >> > >> > Experiences with Quick Fire table top Kilns??? There are two or three >> > brands, all somewhat similar. This one goes to 1500 in about 7 minutes. >> > >> > So Here goes, >> > >> > Lee Boe >> > Rain-Boe's Creations >> > >> > Howard and Elaine Rubin wrote: >> > > >> > > Just a friendly reminder of a suggestion which may not be implemented, >> > > >> > > Be nice to put in the subject line: Non glass: (put topic here) >> > > >> > > makes the inbox helper feel wanted and useful. >> > > >> > > thanks, H >> > ---- >> > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >> > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >> > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> ---- >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 7 12:49:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 11:57:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Topic of the Week Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 13:55:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul7.95559.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by leestat7 >Does anyone know about using Hanovia gold paint on glass? firing temp>? < I've used Thomas C. Thompson liquid gold paint fired onto clear plate glass. Fires nice and shiney. I ran mine up to 1150 degrees. I've never used Hanovia gold paint though. Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 7 18:58:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 18:26:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hotmail.com!scottjf55 From: "scott floyd" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: new guy Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 18:25:24 PDT Message-ID: <1998Jul8.12524.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Everybody, I'm new here and wanted to meet the list. My name is Scott and I live in Oregon. I have been doing glass for 12 years and a little over one year professionaly. Pam over at Stained Glass Rtist Members told be what a great place to learn this is. I will be hosting the Tech corner over there on the message board. I am sooo glad you are talking about kilns, I have not had a lot of "hot glass" experience and am learning soo much! I am going to be teaching myself lampworking too this summer. I am very knowledgaeble in all foil and have a wealth of experience in lead inserts etc.. well hi and bye for now... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 7 19:31:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:05:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: snet.net!tbyrnes From: Tim Byrnes To: "'Bungi Group'" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BDA9F2.D6D672C0" Subject: July 9th to July 14th. Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 22:01:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul7.18144.0> Precedence: bulk ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDA9F2.D6D672C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Folks, PLease remove me from the list from July 9th. til July 14th. My Computer will be in for some sureogy. Thank you, Tim Byrnes ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDA9F2.D6D672C0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjACAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ACwBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADACAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAGUAAAAAAAAAtTvCwCx3EBqhvAgA KypWwhUAAAAua3jrobvPEZ/kREVTVAAAZIMAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAEJ1bmdp IEdyb3VwAFNNVFAAZ2xhc3NAYnVuZ2kuY29tAAAAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEA AAAQAAAAZ2xhc3NAYnVuZ2kuY29tAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAAA4AAAAnQnVuZ2kg R3JvdXAnAAAAAgELMAEAAAAVAAAAU01UUDpHTEFTU0BCVU5HSS5DT00AAAAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6 AQAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAIiNgEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEI AQSAAQAZAAAAICBKdWx5IDl0aCB0byBKdWx5IDE0dGguAG8HAQWAAwAOAAAAzgcHAAcAFgABACwA AgAoAQEggAMADgAAAM4HBwAHABUALgAZAAIAQQEBCYABACEAAAA0NTQ0RDFENEQ0MTVEMjExOUZF OTQ0NDU1MzU0MDAwMADTBgEDkAYAfAIAABIAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADADYA AAAAAEAAOQCgDkFbFKq9AR4AcAABAAAAGQAAACAgSnVseSA5dGggdG8gSnVseSAxNHRoLgAAAAAC AXEAAQAAABYAAAABvaoUWznU0URMFdQR0p/pREVTVAAAAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4A HwwBAAAAEQAAAHRieXJuZXNAc25ldC5uZXQAAAAAAwAGEMcBzjwDAAcQaQAAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAA AEhJRk9MS1MsUExFQVNFUkVNT1ZFTUVGUk9NVEhFTElTVEZST01KVUxZOVRIVElMSlVMWTE0VEhN WUNPTVBVVEVSV0lMTEJFSU5GT1JTT01FU1VSRU9HWVRIQU5LWU9VLFRJTUIAAAAAAgEJEAEAAAAE AQAAAAEAAJEBAABMWkZ1bwxtmP8ACgEPAhUCqAXrAoMAUALyCQIAY2gKwHNldDI3BgAGwwKDMgPF AgBwckJxEeJzdGVtAoMzdwLkBxMCgH0KgAjPCdk78RYPMjU1AoAKgQ2xC2DgbmcxMDMUUAsKFFGF C/EgGqBIaSBGBvAYa3MsCoUKhSBQTLRlYRGwIBYQBGB2HKBFB4AgA1IgdGgcoGwHBAAFQB1jSnVs eSA6OR2wLh2gAxEekzE0jx7yBdAewAhQbXB1E9DrBcAD8GwDIGIcoAuAHVAtBbFzA3AcoHMIcGVv KGd5LhttVBGAbmscIHkIYBtWB2EgQnkvBKAHkAqFFTEAJgADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAQAAHMKB5 ajcSqr0BQAAIMKB5ajcSqr0BHgA9AAEAAAABAAAAAAAAADmS ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDA9F2.D6D672C0-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 7 19:53:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 18:51:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LuvArtGlas From: To: Yegnim@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Coca-Cola Lamp Shade Pattern Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 21:49:43 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul8.14943.0> Precedence: bulk Im not sure what happend??? I am also interested in the coca cola pattern... I will try again and post this same message to the list... When mine was returned from the list it was garbled tooo I dont understand why??? Suzan, Fayetteville Ark ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 7 21:30:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 7 Jul 1998 20:59:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: Beadnik2@webtv.net, glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Quick Fire Kilns Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:57:37, -0500 Message-ID: <199807080357.XAA17826@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk SNIP>>I will try venting the kiln for 5 seconds or so, just to stop the heating process, and then replacing the muffle and letting it cool naturally. I am using clear Bullseye as a top layer, and haven't had a devit. problem yet. Joan<< When I bring a project to full fuse in the QF kilm the pyrometer reads about 1800'F. I remove the muffle, turn it over and place on the table. After a minute or so the project is just barely glowing and I replace the muffle. Seems like a lot of venting but thats what it takes. To fail to adequately vent will result in a project that is over fired. For repeative firings, I work out a schedule that allows me to turn off the kiln at a given elapsed firing time. At that time the project is undercooked but it will continue to work while the kiln is in the higher ranges. To my way of thinking this is the best way to go but even a small change in the project glass can result in different results. requiring different firing times. Bullseye is a good choice to avoid divitrification but not necessary for most QF kiln projects. The QF kiln fires so fast that most Spectrum and Kokomo will not divitrify. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *If they were not ment to be fleeced, then why were they created sheep?* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 8 06:46:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 06:27:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Coca-Cola Lamp Shade Pattern Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 06:24:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199807081324.GAA06909@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk I have the pattern # listed as P20-9 for the Cocoa-cola. But with the pattern mold P20-P it's easy to design. I did one for myself with Harley Davidson gothic print on both sides. Smiles, Cindy > >I am searching for a Coca-Cola Lamp Shade Pattern that Worden sold a few years >ago. Does anyone know where I might it? >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 8 07:52:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 07:21:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hotmail.com!marycooper From: "Mary Cooper" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Care and feeding of a Hothead Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 07:20:22 PDT Message-ID: <1998Jul8.142022.0> Precedence: bulk I had a hothead torch in storage for a while, and hadnt used it for about a year. Previous to that, I used it pretty heavy, Ive owned for probably 5 years.... Anyway (I digress)I knew that due to being in storage, it needed to be cleaned like on the directions--The reverse the orifice trick--I did that and lately the the glass has been divitrifing,coming out in funky colors, and "burning" (It looks burnt....I swear.) A new bottle of MAPP produced a great new flame, as only a fresh bottle can, for about a minute, then sputtered out and a small pathetic yellow flame came out the side where the o2 holes are. Hello, clogged torch head!(kinda scary!) So, inventive me, took the torch head completely apart, and REALLY cleaned the interior surfaces. I made something that looks like a twisty drain snake out of 24 gauge wire and really scrubbed, the bent tube was the worst. Piles of this funky blackish-brown crust kept coming out.I then reassembled the tube part, with the head OFF and and used the MAPP to blow out the tube, with a couple big blasts. More funk and dust came out, until it was clear. Then I did the reverse orifice again, and finally put the head back on. By God, it was like a brand new torch! Wheeee! Hotter! Faster! Better! More Gooder! Do this!I was gonna buy the Bobcat-I really think I will, but for now I love the HotHead again! OK-Gotta go make more glass stuff! Ciao! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 8 09:26:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 08:58:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: Dinosaur Bob To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Garbled messages Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 11:57:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul8.75748.0> Organization: Cox's Mower Service Precedence: bulk I think we should send this out on a regular basis - Other lists I know have fiters set up to prevent HTML and large attachment postings. Please review your OPTIONS or PREFERENCES on your newsreader/browser, and turn off 'send messages as HTML' or whatever options there are - Due to the huge variations in software/hardware/server configurations, a high tech message may be unreadable, or actually crash a low tech reader/browser, due to the 'optional at extra cost' features sent in the message. Please be considerate of other members on the list. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 8 09:50:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:01:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: wcnet.net!fibers From: fibers@wcnet.net (fibers) To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Griffen Glass Saw Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 10:16:57 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul8.51657.0> Precedence: bulk I have a chance to buy a used Griffin Glass Saw. Never owned a saw and know nothing about them. Must make a decission by Sat. and would appericate some info before then Owner said he paid over $900.00. TIA Nelda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 8 11:28:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:55:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sprintmail.com!MollysGlass From: Molly Keys To: fibers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Griffen Glass Saw Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 12:45:18 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul8.74518.0> References: <<1998Jul8.51657.0>> Precedence: bulk Nelda, I have owned a glass bandsaw and the Taurus Ring Saw II. Invest your money in the ring saw. It literally cuts circles around a band saw and you can do some intricate cuts with it. Molly fibers wrote: > I have a chance to buy a used Griffin Glass Saw. Never owned a saw and > know nothing about them. > Must make a decission by Sat. and would appericate some info before then > Owner said he paid over $900.00. > TIA > Nelda > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 8 12:03:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 11:25:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Topic of the Week, Hanovia gold Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 08:01:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199807081501.IAA11797@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk Hi Lee, Hanovia gold firng temps I've used have been the same as Christie's. Mine were for slumping and found the gold application nicer on the front of the glass and not the back. They say cone 022 to 016 for glass, I don't use cones at all, but think cone 022 is around 1100' and 016 is 1443'F Smiles, Cindy > >Message text written by leestat7 >>Does anyone know about using Hanovia gold paint >on glass? firing temp>? < > >I've used Thomas C. Thompson liquid gold paint fired >onto clear plate glass. Fires nice and shiney. I ran mine >up to 1150 degrees. I've never used Hanovia gold >paint though. > >Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles >4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 8 12:31:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 11:49:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Griffen Glass Saw Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 14:53:45 +0000 Message-ID: <199807082012.QAA26905@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > I have a chance to buy a used Griffin Glass Saw. Never owned a saw and > know nothing about them. > Must make a decission by Sat. and would appericate some info before then > Owner said he paid over $900.00. I'm not sure what their different models cost, but there are a few comments about bandsaws in an early issue of Common Ground at http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/cgg1i.htm If you can get the used Gryphon saw's model number, you can contact Gryphon directly and ask them what the saw would cost new now ... it's possible that it's less expensive than it was then. They can be reached at Gryphon Corporation, 12417 Foothill Boulevard, Sylmar CA 91342- 6005. Phone: (818) 890-7770. Fax: (818) 890-7775. Of course, since it's a used saw, it won't be worth what was paid for it ... it's worth is going to depend on how much use it's had, how worn it is, and whether replacement parts are even available for it any longer. Gryphon will have the answers to that. There are other manufacturers of glass saws in http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guideg.htm if you decide to look around. Good luck! Albert Albert Lewis, Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. A 501(c)(6) not-for-profit association 54 Cherry St., PO Box 1809, North Adams MA 01247-1809 (413) 663-5512 Fax: (413) 663-7167 _____________________________________________ Home page http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ Membership http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/benefits.htm Members' work http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm Sources Guide http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm Guild Library http://www.aiap.com/amazon/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 8 15:03:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 14:27:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aracnet.net!bigcreek From: Wayne Parks To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Church Window Restoration Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 17:26:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul8.132655.0> Organization: Big Creek Studio Precedence: bulk I have 8 Church windows to re-lead and clean. These windows were installed in 1912 and this is the first time anything has been done to them. The windows are not overly spectacular (geometric in design) and contain no painted glass. The glass is very dull and oxidized and rust stained in spots. What is the best method of cleaning the glass prior to leading? Wayne Parks Big Creek Studio "To bring the dead to life Is no great magic. Few are wholly dead: Blow on a dead mans embers And a live flame will start." Robert Graves ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 8 17:03:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 16:27:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Dremel tools Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 19:24:45 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul8.232445.0> Precedence: bulk Hi everyone! The company I work for (a mailorder hobby model supply company called Model Expo) is closing out all the Dremel tools and I can probably get a good deal. I've see Dremel mentioned a few times here, but what all do you use it for and what parts would you recommend for using the tool for stained glass. Other than drilling holes, what could I use it for? I only do stained glass, no fusing or slumping or whatever, although I'm starting to get interested after reading about it this week. I know this sounds kind of lame, but I can't pass up a good buy if I find one (if I can use the item that is). ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 8 18:10:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 17:50:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: BMarhon@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Dremel tools Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 20:48:38 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul8.164838.0> References: <<1998Jul8.232445.0>> Precedence: bulk BMarhon@aol.com wrote: > > Hi everyone! > > The company I work for (a mailorder hobby model supply company called Model > Expo) is closing out all the Dremel tools and I can probably get a good deal. > I've see Dremel mentioned a few times here, but what all do you use it for and > what parts would you recommend for using the tool for stained glass. Other > than drilling holes, what could I use it for? I only do stained glass, no > fusing or slumping or whatever, although I'm starting to get interested after > reading about it this week. > > I know this sounds kind of lame, but I can't pass up a good buy if I find one > (if I can use the item that is). > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i would get every bit that you can find. you can polish cut and clean pieces with it. i've used it everywhere: tools, glass, wood, everywhere. it's a good tool to have. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 8 18:27:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 17:26:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LuvArtGlas From: To: cpesonen@bcinternet.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Coca-Cola Lamp Shade Pattern Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 20:18:10 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul9.01810.0> Precedence: bulk I would like to have a copy of the coca-cola pattern please... LuvArtGlas Suzan White P.O. Box 495 Johnson AR. 72741 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 8 21:13:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 20:43:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hotmail.com!scottjf55 From: "scott floyd" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re;church windows. Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 20:42:41 PDT Message-ID: <1998Jul9.34241.0> Precedence: bulk I have worked on 1 restoration with my mentor and we used laquer thinner to get certain yuckies off, but if its real bad then you gotta just leave it there. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 8 21:29:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 20:52:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hotmail.com!scottjf55 From: "scott floyd" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re;dremel Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 20:50:41 PDT Message-ID: <1998Jul9.35041.0> Precedence: bulk I hace seen the Dremel used sooo much its awesome. it can also be used to engrave on the tools you use, engrave your name on glass, the cutoff wheels are great for zinc repairs, brass repairs, rebar repairs, the wire wheel is good for cleaning the oxidation and patina off of old lead to resolder onto. how much can you get it for?? scott ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 8 21:44:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 21:28:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Stnglsgrn From: To: bigcreek@aracnet.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Church Window Restoration Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 00:19:56 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul9.41956.0> Precedence: bulk As a start soak the glass in warm water (soft water is best no deposits on glass). This should loosen the dirt and soften the putty. If not try a neutral pH soap or detergent. Orvus is one, just dilute it a lot. I believe Conservators Emporium carrys it 1-702-852-0404. For stubbron dirt you can try acetone, toluene, xylene, MEK , or alcohol (ethanol, methanol, isopoply) or mineral spirits , naphtha all smelly and nasty but they work. No lye, oven cleaner, drain cleaner nothing caustic, abrasive or acid. After cleaning rinse the glass well in warm soft water to remove the cleaning stuff. If the putty does not soften in the water it was made with portland cement and the only way to get it off is to grind .... a job. Good luck Don ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 8 22:13:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 21:42:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: banet.net!gmanning From: Goldpaws To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: The Lamps of Tiffany-Price Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 00:38:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul8.203821.0> Precedence: bulk I want to purchase The lamps of Tiffany by Neustadt. So far the best price seems to be from Amazon.195.00 Does anyone know of a better source? Thanks Goldpaws ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 8 23:15:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 22:44:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LuvArtGlas From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE: Coca Cola lamp shade pattern Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 01:39:46 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul9.53946.0> Precedence: bulk In addition to the pattern Im am also interested in Older Coca-Cola bottle caps... Suzan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 9 00:17:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 23:43:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel Abedi" To: "Bungi Group" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Decorative soldering Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 14:45:42 +0800 Message-ID: <1998Jul9.224542.0> Precedence: bulk I did it. After two days and nights of dogged work I managed to get a line of decorative solder. Albeit only a simple line of dots. For any one who might be interested, I have made my own stand for the Worden mold. All I did was to weld a nut onto a rod and fix it onto a camera stand. I took a peice of round plywood and guled it to the inside of the mold, the mold now slips into the rod and I use a nut to tighten it. Shakeel Abedi 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Johor Malaysia Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 shakeel@tm.net.my ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 9 00:32:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 23:44:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel Abedi" To: "Bungi Group" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Paperweights .... and such Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 14:39:22 +0800 Message-ID: <1998Jul9.223922.0> Precedence: bulk Friends, A friend sent me two old issues of Glass Craftsman magazine. (issues 142 & 144 Jun/Jul 97 & Oct/Nov 97) The issue 142 has some beautiful photos of paperweights. I was, like, wow! How are these peices of such beauty created. Could some one give me a brief note on the process of making paperweights? I would enjoy a book on paperweights but I am not in position to spend right now for something that may be completely out of my league. Is there any web site detailing the manufacturing process or does any one could send me photocopies of any articles in any magazine. Or any book that would describe all and you feel is worth the expenditure. Would be real grateful. Shakeel Abedi 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Johor Malaysia Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 shakeel@tm.net.my ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 9 03:26:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 03:05:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: The Lamps of Tiffany-Price Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 06:10:53 +0000 Message-ID: <199807091131.HAA05148@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > I want to purchase The lamps of Tiffany by Neustadt. > So far the best price seems to be from Amazon.195.00 > Does anyone know of a better source? The price is controlled by the Neustadt Museum. There is no lower price that I know of, as a result. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 9 03:51:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 03:05:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Church Window Restoration Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 06:08:30 +0000 Message-ID: <199807091131.HAA05145@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > contain no painted glass. The glass is very dull and oxidized and rust > stained in spots. What is the best method of cleaning the glass prior to > leading? Abrasive cleansers, like Ajax or Comet, or cleaning materials, like steel wool or fiberglass brushes, can leave permanent scratches in glass and should be avoided. Water is the universal solvent ... try bathing the glass in warm water and gently removing the dirt. On the other hand, here's a story that might throw some light: A quantity of old painted glass having been sent to Mr. Forrest, a glass painter..., to be cleaned, he found that the outer surface of the whole was covered with a layer of what appeared to be hard dried dust and rain, which was easily removed by a short application of hydrofluoric acid.... He was struck, however, by observing that every now and then there were perfectly clear places to which the dust had apparently not adhered, and there were sometimes curved lines, sometimes dots or roundish spaces, sometimes small and at other times of considerable size. At first it simply appeared odd that the dirt should have adhered so partially; but at length it struck him that possibly these clear spaces might be intentional, and the dirt not dirt at all, but paint burnt in to the surface of the glass. On further examination he found that this really was the case, and that the clear spaces were lights taken out of semi-opaque background.... (FJ. Birkbeck Nevins, "The Secret of Ancient Painted Glass," The Builder, Dec. 28, 1850.) and One of the most common problems faced by conservators is dirt, in all its many permutations. One of the most common laments of owners of windows is, "They're dirty." And somewhat paradoxically, the cleaning of stained glass windows is one of the most complicated issues in its conservation. "Carefully" is still the best guideline, but obviously that's not very specific. As in all restoration, though, every window is different, and the cause of the problem must be addressed, as well as the problem itself. In addition, one must remember that lead, waterproofing compound, and glass paint are sometimes also subjected to the cleaning. Whatever cleanser and method are chosen, none of the materials in the window should be adversely affected by the cleanser or the cleaning process. It is important to fully understand the purpose of cleaning stained glass windows. To most people, cleaning means removing the dirt that obscures the glass and making the window as sparkling as when it was new. This is both incomplete and not quite accurate. In the first place, we are dealing with an old window. Why should it look new? After all, being old is nothing to be ashamed of. Other antiques are valued for their old appearance. There is great danger in over-cleaning, and it is always better to err on the side of conservatism in restoration ... All from "Conservation of Stained Glass in America," by Julie L. Sloan, Albert Lewis, editor (Art in Architecture Press, 1995) http://www.aiap.com/ Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 9 06:27:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 06:05:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: Citadel.edu!HILLEKER From: HILLEKER@Citadel.edu To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Subject: The Lamps of Tiffany Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 09:03:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1998Jul9.5314.0> Precedence: bulk There is a used copy available. Go to www.mxbf.com and enter the author and/or title. There is a copy available for $100 in fine condition. I'm not really sure what fine means in bookseller terms though. Russ hilleker@citadel.edu >I want to purchase The lamps of Tiffany by Neustadt. >So far the best price seems to be from Amazon.195.00 >Does anyone know of a better source? >Thanks >Goldpaws ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 9 06:55:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 06:36:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Mebsjunk From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Window Restoration Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 09:30:46 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul9.133046.0> Precedence: bulk I have found a old window. The frame is missing and the outside lead came is 'loose'. The top is arched so framing is not something that I can do. As I new beginner ,can I redo the came? Where can I get information? I do not start my classes till Sept but hate to let this window get away. 18" x 26" with only one piece cracked but you will not see unless looking for it. Mary in Ga ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 9 07:07:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 06:41:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!GlasCrafts From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: The Lamps of Tiffany-Price Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 09:39:15 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul9.133915.0> Precedence: bulk Hello Goldpaws, Our regular price for "The Lamps of Tiffany" by Neustadt (Cat.#7270W) is also $195.00. However, we have a limited number of copies that we can offer members of the Bungi group for just $175.00. Please email or call toll-free to order and mention that you are a member of Bungi to receive the special price. Thank you. Sincerely, Rich Glass Crafters Stained Glass, Inc. 398 Interstate Ct. Sarasota, FL 34240 1-800-422-4552 1-941-379-8333 Fax: 1-941-379-8827 Email: GlasCrafts@aol.com www.glasscrafters.com http://members.aol.com/glascrafts ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 9 07:55:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 07:23:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Sorry about duplicates Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:29:54 +0000 Message-ID: <199807091550.LAA14505@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk Sorry if one or more of my messages was duplicated this a.m. I had a message that it hadn't been sent, then while resending it, got my copy from bungi.com -- it wasn't intentional. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 9 08:14:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 07:25:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: water.waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@water.waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Haddonfield's 6th Annual Crafts and Fine Arts Festival Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:23:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199807091423.KAA19232@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk For those who love craft shows!!!!!! Over 225 of the nations finest artist and craftspeople will converge on the historical downtown district of Haddonfield, New Jersey on Saturday, July 11 from 10am-7pm and Sunday , July 12, from 12n-5pm. I happen to be co-organizer of this event and if any one happens to stop by I will be on hand at the information booth located on Kings Highway. This premier southern New Jersey event is the largest outdoor juried show of its type . We boast as having over 100,000 in attendence last year and look forward to a wonderful crowd again this year. Admission is free and there is plenty of free parking. We are also accessible by the PATCO highspeedline. I will be there both days all day.................so stop by and say hello. This is by no means an advertisement...................just an invitation. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 9 08:27:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 07:18:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Church Window Restoration Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:23:37 +0000 Message-ID: <199807091543.LAA14159@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > contain no painted glass. The glass is very dull and oxidized and rust > stained in spots. What is the best method of cleaning the glass prior to > leading? Abrasive cleansers, like Ajax or Comet, or cleaning materials, like steel wool or fiberglass brushes, can leave permanent scratches in glass and should be avoided. Water is the universal solvent ... try bathing the glass in warm water and gently removing the dirt. On the other hand, here's a story that might throw some light: A quantity of old painted glass having been sent to Mr. Forrest, a glass painter..., to be cleaned, he found that the outer surface of the whole was covered with a layer of what appeared to be hard dried dust and rain, which was easily removed by a short application of hydrofluoric acid.... He was struck, however, by observing that every now and then there were perfectly clear places to which the dust had apparently not adhered, and there were sometimes curved lines, sometimes dots or roundish spaces, sometimes small and at other times of considerable size. At first it simply appeared odd that the dirt should have adhered so partially; but at length it struck him that possibly these clear spaces might be intentional, and the dirt not dirt at all, but paint burnt in to the surface of the glass. On further examination he found that this really was the case, and that the clear spaces were lights taken out of semi-opaque background.... (FJ. Birkbeck Nevins, "The Secret of Ancient Painted Glass," The Builder, Dec. 28, 1850.) and One of the most common problems faced by conservators is dirt, in all its many permutations. One of the most common laments of owners of windows is, "They're dirty." And somewhat paradoxically, the cleaning of stained glass windows is one of the most complicated issues in its conservation. "Carefully" is still the best guideline, but obviously that's not very specific. As in all restoration, though, every window is different, and the cause of the problem must be addressed, as well as the problem itself. In addition, one must remember that lead, waterproofing compound, and glass paint are sometimes also subjected to the cleaning. Whatever cleanser and method are chosen, none of the materials in the window should be adversely affected by the cleanser or the cleaning process. It is important to fully understand the purpose of cleaning stained glass windows. To most people, cleaning means removing the dirt that obscures the glass and making the window as sparkling as when it was new. This is both incomplete and not quite accurate. In the first place, we are dealing with an old window. Why should it look new? After all, being old is nothing to be ashamed of. Other antiques are valued for their old appearance. There is great danger in over-cleaning, and it is always better to err on the side of conservatism in restoration ... All from "Conservation of Stained Glass in America," by Julie L. Sloan, Albert Lewis, editor (Art in Architecture Press, 1995) http://www.aiap.com/ Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 9 10:35:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 09:50:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Window Restoration Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 17:34:59 +0100 Message-ID: <1998Jul9.183459.0> Precedence: bulk At 09:30 09/07/98 EDT, you wrote: >I have found a old window. The frame is missing and the outside lead came is >'loose'. The top is arched so framing is not something that I can do. As I >new beginner ,can I redo the came? Where can I get information? I do not >start my classes till Sept but hate to let this window get away. 18" x 26" >with only one piece cracked but you will not see unless looking for it. >Mary in Ga >---- Hello Mary, though understanding completely that you dont want to let the grass grow under your feet, you would make a far better job of this window if you wait till you have had some experience on small projects before tackling it. So I would suggest storing the window somewhere safe until you are ready and capable of doing it well. After all it will be around for many years if you repair it properly, and a poor job will only irritate you and you may have to re-do it later if you rush at it in relative ignorance. As we often tell our students - you wont have to feed it while it is awaiting attention :-) Also you may find your teacher will be only too happy to show you the best way to do the job as part of your course. Good luck in your stained glass Regards Elizabeth Law (Bournemouth Stained Glass) http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 9 11:08:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:32:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.apple.com!karens From: Karen Schroeder To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: Re: The Lamps of Tiffany-Price Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:19:47 -0700 Message-ID: <199807091719.KAA07168@scv3.apple.com> Precedence: bulk I bought a copy from a bookseller in New York via mail order for about $100. I found it through the BiblioFind web site: Enter "neustadt" as the author keyword and "tiffany" as the title keyword. Here are a couple of the hits: Neustadt, Egon Dr.: The Lamps of Tiffany ; 2A ARTISTS/WORKS Fairfield Press, New York, 1970. G++/G+. Mustard cloth HB with gold lettering and purple design. A very colorful dj along with colorful lamps throughout. A nice copy. (AB Bookman's Standards) =A0 Offered for sale by Yesterday's Books at US$100.00 Neustadt,Dr.Egon.: The Lamps of Tiffany. ; NY:Neustadt Museum,1970., First edition.Cloth.F in F DJ., Fine Arts, Photography, and Architecture =A0 (UR#:2941)=A0 Offered for sale by New York Online Bookfinder at US$100.00 This is a wonderful book. Anytime I am having motivation problems I flip through it. Soon my hands are itching to touch glass. Karen Schroeder Hummingbird Designs On 7/8/98 9:38 PM Goldpaws said: >I want to purchase The lamps of Tiffany by Neustadt. >So far the best price seems to be from Amazon.195.00 >Does anyone know of a better source? >Thanks >Goldpaws Saying Windows 95 is equal to Macintosh is like finding a potato that looks like Jesus and believing you've witnessed the second coming. -- Guy Kawasaki Macintosh, It Just Works! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 9 12:06:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 11:40:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel Abedi" To: "Albert Lewis" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Non Glass: thanks from Shakeel Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 02:22:17 +0800 Message-ID: <1998Jul10.102217.0> Precedence: bulk Albert Thanks for both the mail, regarding the kiln and the lamp working. Marty of Centre DeVerre mailed me information. Hope to add a kiln to my studio soon. Saw Reggie Lim's name in the members list. A pleasant surprise. I get most of my glass from him. Are there any other members from Malaysia, Indonesia or Singapore that you know. It would be good to know them if there are any. Do you know of any place where I can catch some basics on lampworking and paperweight. Thanks Shakeel Abedi 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Johor Malaysia Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 shakeel@tm.net.my ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 9 12:36:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 11:35:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel Abedi" To: "Bungi Group" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Soldering the box seams Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 01:56:43 +0800 Message-ID: <1998Jul10.95643.0> Precedence: bulk Friends Tried the first 3-D object today. A vase. I was very unhappy with the seams. The pieces in the panel give a nice delicate bead but the joints seem to lose all the delicacy. It beace a very thick bead of solder. Moreover the empty V shape space seems very hard to fill. Is there any other way to join the panels and still get a delicate seam? Mike, you seem to me an expert in boxes, any advise for the rookie? Shakeel Abedi 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Johor Malaysia Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 shakeel@tm.net.my ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 9 13:07:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 12:39:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: The Lamps of Tiffany-Price Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 15:44:35 +0000 Message-ID: <199807092105.RAA29405@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > I bought a copy from a bookseller in New York via mail order for about > $100. I found it through the BiblioFind web site Aw, I didn't think of used book dealers ... very good suggestion. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 9 17:44:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 17:15:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Shakeel Abedi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Soldering the box seams Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 20:14:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul9.16148.0> References: <<1998Jul10.95643.0>> Precedence: bulk Shakeel Abedi wrote: > > Friends > > Tried the first 3-D object today. A vase. I was very unhappy with the seams. > The pieces in the panel give a nice delicate bead but the joints seem to > lose all the delicacy. It beace a very thick bead of solder. Moreover the > empty V shape space seems very hard to fill. Is there any other way to join > the panels and still get a delicate seam? > > Mike, you seem to me an expert in boxes, any advise for the rookie? > > Shakeel Abedi > 104, Jalan Mersing > 86000 Kluang > Johor > Malaysia > Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 > shakeel@tm.net.my > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well, you would need to angle the pieces (miter the edges), for a tighter fit. that's really the monyl good way. it will make the preoject a little weaker, but since it's vase it should'nt make a huge difference. try using as thin a foil you can get away with. i use 3/16 foil... as long as the seems are fat all the way around it should'nt be noticed, as much. but primarily beveling the edges will be the only real way to go. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 9 19:19:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 19:01:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Soldering the box seams Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 18:59:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199807100159.SAA25417@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk > >Dear Shakeel, >Althou you have ended this to our dear "Friend Mike" many have enjoyed your chatting and may wish to jump in. >I am one.... very interesting learning the difficulties of many miles. >With your regards to the "v" shape, it's always been an ugly corner to me, and usually detour from it. It's not really nescessary either, as Mike has replied to. As far as I've seen it's an easy design feature that doesn't allow for smaller cuts on the side pieces. (aligning for the side pieces to fit correctly between the front and the back). >Happy cutting from Canada, >Smiles, Cindy > > > >>Friends >> >>Tried the first 3-D object today. A vase. I was very unhappy with the seams. >>The pieces in the panel give a nice delicate bead but the joints seem to >>lose all the delicacy. It beace a very thick bead of solder. Moreover the >>empty V shape space seems very hard to fill. Is there any other way to join >>the panels and still get a delicate seam? >> >>Mike, you seem to me an expert in boxes, any advise for the rookie? >> >>Shakeel Abedi >>104, Jalan Mersing >>86000 Kluang >>Johor >>Malaysia >>Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 >>shakeel@tm.net.my >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >> > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 9 20:19:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 20:01:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hotmail.com!scottjf55 From: "scott floyd" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 18:12:52 PDT Message-ID: <1998Jul10.11252.0> Precedence: bulk Is it a band saw model( which cuts only in one direction), or a ring saw( diamond grit all the way around. The ring saws are worth the money, but the band saws that cost a that much tend to not be as good because of the blade. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 10 04:04:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 03:29:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Soldering the box seams Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 06:32:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul10.23240.0> Precedence: bulk Shakeel, I'm pretty new to this, just a couple of years but I do a fair amount of = kaleidoscopes and the corners are similar, a thick bead. I tin the edges = and then instead of trying to lay the soulder down in one even flow, I = kind of daub it on. I fill the iron with soulder (like a paint brush) = and plop in on quickly. It has a chance to cool slightly while I'm = filling the iron with the next daub. When I lay the next plop aside the = last one, it males a nicedome shape, sometimes leaving a little = indentation between each daub.=20 Hard to expain but the effect is very nice and the rather large soulder = bead that looks like a nicely made fillet weld becomes part of the = interest. Of course, like Mike says, I use the smallest foil size I can = get away with so the dome kind of flows onto the tinned edges as well as = fills the corner gap. Linda Campbell Shakeel said: >> >>Tried the first 3-D object today. A vase. I was very unhappy with the = seams. >>The pieces in the panel give a nice delicate bead but the joints seem = to >>lose all the delicacy. It beace a very thick bead of solder. Moreover = the >>empty V shape space seems very hard to fill. Is there any other way to = join >>the panels and still get a delicate seam? >> >>Mike, you seem to me an expert in boxes, any advise for the rookie? >> >>Shakeel Abedi >>104, Jalan Mersing >>86000 Kluang >>Johor >>Malaysia >>Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 >>shakeel@tm.net.my ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 10 07:46:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:17:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Soldering the box seams Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:02:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul10.6212.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Shakeel Abedi" >Tried the first 3-D object today. A vase. I was very unhappy with the seams. The pieces in the panel give a nice delicate bead but the joints seem to lose all the delicacy. It beace a very thick bead of solder. Moreover the= empty V shape space seems very hard to fill. Is there any other way to jo= in the panels and still get a delicate seam?< You might want to invest in a "lamp" grinding bit. This is a bit which is beveled. This way you grind an angel into the parts of the piece where there is a joint. This reduces the V shape space needing to be filled with solder, resulting in a smaller and more pleasing seam. Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 10 08:12:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:34:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Soldering the box seams Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:20:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul10.62021.0> References: <<1998Jul10.23240.0>> Precedence: bulk Linda Campbell wrote: > > Shakeel, > > I'm pretty new to this, just a couple of years but I do a fair amount of = > kaleidoscopes and the corners are similar, a thick bead. I tin the edges = > and then instead of trying to lay the soulder down in one even flow, I = > kind of daub it on. I fill the iron with soulder (like a paint brush) = > and plop in on quickly. It has a chance to cool slightly while I'm = > filling the iron with the next daub. When I lay the next plop aside the = > last one, it males a nicedome shape, sometimes leaving a little = > indentation between each daub.=20 > > Hard to expain but the effect is very nice and the rather large soulder = > bead that looks like a nicely made fillet weld becomes part of the = > interest. Of course, like Mike says, I use the smallest foil size I can = > get away with so the dome kind of flows onto the tinned edges as well as = > fills the corner gap. > > Linda Campbell > > Shakeel said: > >> > >>Tried the first 3-D object today. A vase. I was very unhappy with the = > seams. > >>The pieces in the panel give a nice delicate bead but the joints seem = > to > >>lose all the delicacy. It beace a very thick bead of solder. Moreover = > the > >>empty V shape space seems very hard to fill. Is there any other way to = > join > >>the panels and still get a delicate seam? > >> > >>Mike, you seem to me an expert in boxes, any advise for the rookie? > >> > >>Shakeel Abedi > >>104, Jalan Mersing > >>86000 Kluang > >>Johor > >>Malaysia > >>Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 > >>shakeel@tm.net.my > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass and of course the side seams are perfect for decorative soldering. which is why you see alot of that on scopes. another method for hiding the seam is to put a little bit of solder in the bottom of the V. just enough to keep it together. then use a clear rod (like a laser scope rod), and use it to fill in the gap. or you can use a bunch of gems (for the top anyway). the bottom, really does'nt matter (providing you use feet of some kind, showing that it's the bottom). ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 10 17:34:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 16:50:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LuvArtGlas From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Coca Cola lamp shade pattern Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 19:49:32 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul10.234932.0> Precedence: bulk Im not sure why this goes through sometimes and not at other times.. But anyway I was asking if any one out there had any older coca-cola bottle caps... Hope this one doesnt get all garbled up in the translation Suzan Fayetteville AR ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 10 18:05:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 17:38:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon From: To: LuvArtGlas@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Coca Cola lamp shade pattern Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 20:37:42 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul11.03742.0> Precedence: bulk Got your message (twice) - just don't have any bottle caps! Sorry. Brenda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 10 18:36:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 18:00:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hotmail.com!scottjf55 From: "scott floyd" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Gatewayed mail message Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 17:58:48 PDT Message-ID: <1998Jul11.05848.0> Precedence: bulk Having trouble with the decorative solder?...use a lower temp tip(600) because if its too hot, the solder will just melt down. Also use quick set solder, it is great because it sets quickly allowing you to move right along the line without worrying about melting the dot next to it.... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 10 21:51:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 21:07:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel Abedi" To: "Bungi Group" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: right thickness for 14" stepping stone. Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 11:34:55 +0800 Message-ID: <1998Jul11.193455.0> Precedence: bulk Hi What is the best thicknes for a 14 or 16 inch stepping stone? Thanks Shakeel Abedi 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Johor Malaysia Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 shakeel@tm.net.my ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 11 00:27:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 10 Jul 1998 23:53:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------B63D74D266BD923BFF0F86D7" Subject: Re:Right thickness for stepping stones Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 22:37:04 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul10.15374.0> Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B63D74D266BD923BFF0F86D7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Shakeel! Hi Everybody! I would advise anywhere from 1 1/2 inch to 2 1/2 inches thick. When I do my stones the finished product is 2 1/2 inches thick. I purchased 1 mold from Delphi glass and it's thickness is about 1 1/2 inches. I also seal the stone with water sealer, ah yes, something else for you to think about! By the way how did you solve your concrete problem there in Malaysia? You may have discussed this already I can always check the archives. I was wondering what your concrete elements are and have you started experimenting with the stones yet. Fill us in!! I was thinking of sending you a bag but for a couple hundred bucks in shipping quickly changed my mind, good grief! I think all of us have enjoyed your quest for knowledge and I sincerely hope you continue! P.S. I enjoyed the topic of the week this week-any suggestions for next week? See ya, Pam --------------B63D74D266BD923BFF0F86D7 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Pamela Burns-Tappan Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Pamela Burns-Tappan n: Burns-Tappan;Pamela org: Moswood Mountain Limited adr: http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html;;http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html;;;;USA email;internet: ptap@pacifier.com title: President x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------B63D74D266BD923BFF0F86D7-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 11 08:55:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 08:41:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PDRUSS From: To: PDRUSS@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: off topic: Florida fires Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 11:35:52 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul11.153552.0> Precedence: bulk Here are the lastest numbers on the Flordia fires. Yes, they are still burning. Dianne   Fires By The Numbers (As of 7/8/98) Number of fires: 2,058 Number of evacuees: 120,000 Number in shelters: 8,300+ Toll: 100 injuries, 3 deaths (elderly people while being evacuated from nursing homes) Acreage lost: 483,000 Property damaged: 356 homes and structures Damage estimate: $276 million (mostly timber) Cost to fight fires: $116 million ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 11 11:01:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 10:28:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: right thickness for 14" stepping stone. Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 10:29:58 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul11.32958.0> References: <<1998Jul11.193455.0>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk Concrete was designed to be poured a minumum of 4 inches. But with stepping stones, 2 inches will do as long as you plant the stone on 1 and 1/2 inches of clean sand. The sand will diffuse the weight and thus protect the stone. Good luck Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 12 00:07:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 11 Jul 1998 23:41:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Cats for profit Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 02:38:26, -0500 Message-ID: <199807120638.CAA12800@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk Recently I was looking around my studio and thinking of what was helping to bring in the rent money. The kilns and beveling equipment have long since paid for themselves and generate a constant stream of income. As I write the large kiln is firing bent glass lamp panels for a long term client who makes very fancy chandlers. A bevel order came in today that will provide an income that after expenses that is 80% labor (skill) charge. Not a few smaller tools have proven to be good investments. The came bender (actualy the second one) has seen noble service as have a lot of other things. Then my cat Freeway looked up from his current favorite spot. Freeway turned up ten years ago and lived in the attic for a few months before he was invited inside. What a moneymaker he has been. With two exceptions he has been most welcome to prospective clients. For years now he has greeted people that show up at the door. Oftentimes the first few minutes of conversation that we have is on the subject of cats. Having covered the common ground of cats it is time to move on to business. I find that I can communicate with people on business matters better when I know a little something about them and I am sure that my prospective clients feel the same way. Well, Freeway provides this ice breaking and I am sure that many commissions have come to me due to this. So I say, get a cat to raise your profit margins. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *If they were not ment to be fleeced, then why were they created sheep?* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 12 08:12:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 07:40:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Cats for profit Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 10:33:56 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul12.143356.0> Precedence: bulk Bob D. purrs: > For years now [Freeway] has greeted people that show up > at the door. Oftentimes the first few minutes of > conversation that we have is on the subject of cats. > > Having covered the common ground of cats it is time to > move on to business. [...] get a cat to raise your profit > margins. Thanks for the early-morning chuckle! Reminds me of a local used-record store that has 2 resident felines, a yellow tabby and a black. The black one is in the habit of singling out a likely- looking customer who's engrossed in flipping through the bins, then jumping up on the bin and from there to the customer's shoulder and settling there like the jaguar draped on Gunther Gebel-Williams in the old American Express card commercial. He'll stay there until he's shooed off or until you go to the checkout counter, at which point the cashier will say something like, "Don't look now, but there's a cat on you." That seems to be the critter's signal that the ride's over.... (The sign on the office door says "EMPLOYEES AND CATS ONLY.") There's something nice and friendly about having a cat in the workplace anyway (assuming it's got enough sense and dignity to keep from jumping up on the furniture and knocking things off, that gets expensive in a hurry!), even if you don't have customers walking in. Before Christie had her shop, I spent a couple of afternoons in her basement sitting at the foiler with a lap full of yellow cat (she has 4 assorted ones; another one likes to walk in on you first thing in the morning and flop down right in your face, as I found out recently when we were in the midst of a rush job and I crashed over at her house one night rather than drive 20 miles home on a motor scooter at 11 pm), and I still miss the gray tortoise-shell my sweetie and I used to have who would settle down (all 14 lbs of her) right in front of the computer monitor and stay there all day (and oddly enough, didn't seem to mind being a "document holder" when I propped up a stack of papers on her)! OK, this has been a bit rambling and maybe off the subject, but what the hey, it's Sunday! :-) Sparks suddenly wishing for another Furry Feline Mahatma ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 12 13:57:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 12:51:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: wcnet.net!fibers From: fibers@wcnet.net (fibers) To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: glass saw Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 10:38:37 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul12.53837.0> Precedence: bulk I am considering buying a glass saw, either band or ring saw. I see replacement grommets offered with each. How ofter must these be replaced? I'm told that cutting a streight line with a ring saw is difficult. What has your experience been? TIA Nelda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 12 14:55:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 14:05:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, cpesonen@bcinternet.net Subject: Re: Tightening kiln elements. Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 16:54:56, -0500 Message-ID: <199807122054.QAA13048@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>Quick question if you have the time, my kiln elements have stretched, some hooks have disappeared. Is that normal and should I be fixing it? At the moment nothing seems too serious, but am concerned. TIA. Cindy<< Funny you should bring this subject up. Just yesterday I spend a few minutes tightening up my kiln elements. Seems to be necessary every couple of dozen firings. Being as mine are in the kiln lid it is important that they are not allowed to sag to much or they can break when hot. Making sure that the electric is off, I use a pair of needle nose pliers to compress the coils of the element. A little compression here and a little compression there and suddenly the element is taunt in the groove. Of course, used elements can be brittle and so care is necessary. Even so I have never broken an element by tightening with my trusty needle nose pliers. I use very few pins to hold the coil on place. The drill is the same for side mounted elements but the necessity is much less. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *If they were not ment to be fleeced, then why were they created sheep?* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 12 15:12:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 14:13:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!AlexG2 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Help with a stepping stone class Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 17:06:42 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul12.21642.0> Precedence: bulk Hi, everyone Well, I opened my big mouth and I had some kids in our church do some small stepping stones one Sunday. There were nine kids and I used some 8" round tinfoil pans which worked pretty well. It only took me one nite in a hot garage to pour them all. Well, now I have got about 15 adults wanting to do the same thing! But they really want to do something larger. None of them has had any experience with glass and I want to keep the experience positive. I also don't what to kill myself and extend the class for more than two sessions. I think cutting glass is out of the question and a mosaic with small glass pieces would be more appropriate. Does anyone have any ideas for projects or patterns? Thanks Alex Gacic ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 12 16:39:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 15:23:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hotmail.com!scottjf55 From: "scott floyd" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: RE: ring saw... Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 15:21:34 PDT Message-ID: <1998Jul12.222134.0> Precedence: bulk Re:SAW... well the ring saw i use is hard to cut straight because it cuts so fast, but i dont ever use it for straight lines.....just use my cutter.... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 12 17:12:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 16:02:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!MD6868 From: To: Mebsjunk@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Window Restoration Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 19:00:40 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul12.23040.0> Precedence: bulk Hi, If the price is right (meaning real cheap), I can't think of a better way to learn how to work with lead came. If you have had some experience with cutting, soldering, etc. All that is needed is the guts to try to rework the came. If the piece is cheap enough , the fear factor is diminished. If you have to go further cause you break something, or twist something, well, good, now you have more to practice on. I had done foil for a long time before learning to do lead, in just this way, and I feel the experience was just great...just dove into it. ..If you redo the cames however, remember, you have to stretch the lead first, a simple proceedure, with a lead vise, pliers, and a little nerve. Good luck Richard Glassics Inc. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 12 17:52:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 16:35:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!MD6868 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: New Glass Biz,etc. Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 19:24:31 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul12.232431.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks to all of you who graciously responded to my reguest for help, opinions, etc, regarding my new venture. I have replied to some of you directly, so as not to take group time for a personal need, however, I will share with the group. developments that I feel will benefit the group, as I proceed. Am narrowing down site selection, and meeting with first of comm'l brokers tomw. Am incorporating tomw as well (yes, that too can be dome via internet) and am applying for sales tax permit as well. the concensus of the comments I got advise a mix of glass, and supplies, lessions, and commission work. I'll keep ypu all advised, and will submit a bio to Mr. Kelly this week, without fail. Just finished a 10 day visit of glass shops / studios in No. Ca. .. very helpful. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 12 18:14:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 16:40:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Pattern Book Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 05:04:21 -0600 Message-ID: <1998Jul11.23421.0> Precedence: bulk Does anyone have any advice on pattern books? I have collected about 12 orginal patterns that are unique and would probably be attractive to the hobbyist market. Several of my fellow glass-mates feel that I should try to publish. I don't have a clue. Is it worth it to pursue? Is there money is pattern books? So what do you guys think? cj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 12 18:26:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 16:55:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Tightening kiln elements. Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 16:52:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199807122352.QAA32085@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk >Hi Bob, >Thanks for the quick answer:) >This has been going on for awhile and now feel more at ease that I should be attending to this quickly. >Inside my fire brick are grooves that the element sits into. Checked it out and think it could be difficult getting the wire in place (actually had one wire that did not disappear, so I quickly tried it) But shall work on it tomorrow. >(Slumping some roses and a plate today.) >One more question: >What can I replace the wire with here at home, I have a big stock of copper wire in all guages (SP), but think that won't work? Should it be steel? >Thanks again, Cindy > >PS; twice now I've burnt my bangs (hair) having a peek inside, boy oh boy, I had better stop that. > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 12 18:37:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 16:55:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: cats Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 09:43:40 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul12.24340.0> Precedence: bulk I had a shop cat for 12+ years, used to sit on my warm light table, chase rodents in my shop, investigate the un-spooling foil, and in general just be around and in the way for my/her pleasure. Anywhere that I frequent that has a cat will tend to bring me back, sometimes just to visit the cat. Dogs are ok, but I have an affinity for and to cats. Aloof (interpretation) ones will often come to me and stay to the surprise of the owners (as if you can own a cat). I do miss my cat and in moments of weakness muse over getting another one. Had a trade(small lampshade) lined up for a Bengal, but at the last moment decided not to go through with it. just remembering, enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 12 18:52:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 17:26:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: polishing agates Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 05:51:51 -0600 Message-ID: <1998Jul11.235151.0> Precedence: bulk Mike, as a new bungi member, I have slowly been making my way through the archives. I had my brother cut about 10 lbs of stones for me with is tile saw. They came out very interesting and I am sure I will be able to find a use for them. In this archive you mention that you just bought a bevel max and implied that you can use it to polish stones, could you please explain. Thanks cj >From archives (mike's message): i have a lapidary saw a 6" gemstone. it does'nt cut flat glass well it tends to crack do to vibration. however it should be able to cut thicker glass like dalle glass that 1" stuff. i was hoping to be able to cut bottles on that thing, but apparently i can'nt. but i can cut rocks and i just got the bevel max, so i should be able to polish my agates. BTW you would'nt happen to have a catalog taht sells decent uncut or cut agates would you? the only polished agates i found are at meuseums or fleamarkets. and uncut's, once at a zinc mine. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 12 19:54:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 18:49:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!jroey From: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: shelf primer stuck to glass Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 16:08:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul12.12846.0> Precedence: bulk Any suggestions on how to remove shelf primer that stuck to the glass in the kiln? Ugh. Also, how do you know when to reapply shelf primer. The last time I used the kiln, everything was fine. This time everything stuck. I've used the shelf paper. It's really nice, but kind of pricey, especially compared to primer. Jerri (aka Scrub Scrub) _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 12 21:12:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 20:28:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: cats Date: Sun, 12 Jul 98 23:06:09 -0400 Message-ID: <199807130309.XAA13721@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk Howard wrote: >Had a trade(small lampshade) lined up for a Bengal, but at the last moment >decided not to go through with it. Why not? Life is short, why deny yourself the pleasure of a feline? For a *small lampshade* for God's sake - what a deal, I thought you were the King of Deals! Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 12 21:27:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 20:34:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Pattern Book Date: Sun Jul 12 20:34:33 1998 Message-ID: <19980713032311Z13416-22665+409@mail.one.net> Precedence: bulk hi if you persue this and come up with a hard copy of something, let me know--i have a store front in cincinnati and will gladly buy a few from you to resell in my studio let us know debbie taylor taylor'd expressions 513-213-0082 ---------- > From: Norman & Claudette Jaramillo > To: Bungi > Subject: Pattern Book > Date: Sunday, July 12, 1998 7:04 AM > > Does anyone have any advice on pattern books? I have collected about 12 > orginal patterns that are unique and would probably be attractive to the > hobbyist market. Several of my fellow glass-mates feel that I should try to > publish. I don't have a clue. Is it worth it to pursue? Is there money is > pattern books? > > So what do you guys think? > cj > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 12 21:41:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 20:37:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bio #36 Mary Austin Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 21:48:01 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul12.16481.0> Precedence: bulk My name is Mary Austin. I live in Indiana. I've been doing stained glass for about 4 years now. I'm legally blind and thankfully work using a large magnifying light that was donated from where my husband works. I love doing panels, windows and am looking forward to doing stepping stones. I hope to do a pond this summer using the brick mold. I appreciate any and all help I receive from all of you. I have a 23 yr. old daughter stationed in England in the air force and was lucky enough to get to travel there and actually see some of the work done in their churches. My husband is a machinist and he helps me out by building my cabinets( in which stained glass panels go) and supplying the brass rods for my outside pieces. Best to all of you and for all your help. Mary A. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 12 21:44:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 20:39:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bio #35 Sue Prullage Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 21:41:05 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul12.16415.0> Precedence: bulk Well here I go. I am a 41 year old married woman with two adult children. My husband supports my habit, but doesn't really do it. He did just built me a beautiful work bench. It is a wonder how great it is to create things in a nice big space. I work a regular day job as a pediatric nurse practitioner in the Midwest. Most of my stained glass time is in the evening or weekends. I have always loved stained glass, but didn't know how to get into making it. One of my friends wanted me to help her pick out colors for a stained glass window that she was going to commission. I went to the shop and fell in love. Started taking glass the next week and haven't stop since, that was ~ 4 years ago. I have become very good friends with the shop owner and now we travel together. We both are considering buying kilns (thus my question about what kind of kiln everyone had) and are going to the hot glass horizon in October. My friend has asked me to help her teach some class in the fall. I consider that a compliment. I think of doing glass as a tier, beginner, teacher and master. Maybe someday I will be a master. I consider most everyone of the bungi group as masters. My favorite stained glass work is doing panels and lamps. Jewelry boxes are still a challenge for me. I love to draw my own designs. I have done several panels that are unique to my customer. Well that is about it. Thanks, Sue ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 12 21:58:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 20:39:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Pattern Book Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 21:53:25 +0000 Message-ID: <199807130318.XAA09546@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Does anyone have any advice on pattern books? I have collected about 12 > orginal patterns that are unique and would probably be attractive to the > hobbyist market. Several of my fellow glass-mates feel that I should try to > publish. I don't have a clue. Is it worth it to pursue? Is there money is > pattern books? As a publisher (yes that, too) I'd have to say that since you've "collected" them, they're already copyrighted by those who created them to begin with, so you can't publish them without violating that copyright. Or do I misunderstand what you've said? Are they patterns you've created or patterns others have made that you collected? Albert Art in Architecture Press, Inc. 54 Cherry Street, North Adams MA 01247 (413) 663-5512 Fax: (413) 663-7167 http://www.aiap.com/ [Home Page] http://www.aiap.com/amazon/ [2700+ Glass Books!] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 12 22:10:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 21:08:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: webtv.net!Beadnik2 From: Beadnik2@webtv.net (Joan) To: jroey@juno.com (jerri m Roey) Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: shelf primer stuck to glass Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 00:03:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1998Jul12.2036.0> Precedence: bulk >Jerri wrote: > >Any suggestions on how to remove shelf primer >that stuck to the glass in the kiln? Ugh. Also, >how do you know when to reapply shelf primer. >The last time I used the kiln, everything was >fine. This time everything stuck. I've used the >shelf paper. It's really nice, but kind of pricey, >especially compared to primer. >Jerri (aka Scrub Scrub) Hotline makes a product called "Wash-Away". Contains glycolic, sulfamic & citric acids. Instructions say to use full strength on the residue or on a metal scouring pad. I've used this product and it works well. Ed Hoy's carries it... if you do not have a wholesale account with them, they will direct you to a dealer in your area. Hope this helps! Joan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 12 23:18:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 22:35:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "suzy@comcat.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: PASS no judgement!!!!! Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 22:28:47 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul12.152847.0> Precedence: bulk Not the cost and at this stage of my life I can afford most pleasures I desire, but after deep soul searching...we could not justify another cat...NEW Stickley furniture, new custom made upholstered couch, Morris chair, white carpeting and so forth. Also do not want to de-claw a cat either.... Also we hope to be traveling in 2 years and not fair to leave a cat home alone. It was a tough decision not to do it. I borrowed a neighbors Bengal for a while just to have a cat around, and after being cat less it is nice to leave doors open and not worry about E's allergies due to dander and cat hair. Still miss the felines, however and I sometimes cat sit for friends... weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 13 00:27:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 12 Jul 1998 23:44:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: Sprintmail.com!MollysGlass From: Molly Keys To: BOB DUCHESNEAU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Cats for profit Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 22:27:11 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul12.172711.0> References: <<199807120638.CAA12800@mime3.prodigy.com>> Precedence: bulk Bob, I agree with you on the subject of cats. I have a 17 year old cat named Samantha and she has spent many a day and night in my studio with me. She has been the subject for many of my stained glass windows and they do not stay in the inventory very long. She is black and white and currently asleep under my feet in my computer closet as I type this. Just thought I'd add my 2 cents. Molly Keys BOB DUCHESNEAU wrote: > Recently I was looking around my studio and thinking of what was > helping to bring in the rent money. The kilns and beveling equipment > have long since paid for themselves and generate a constant stream of > income. As I write the large kiln is firing bent glass lamp panels > for a long term client who makes very fancy chandlers. A bevel order > came in today that will provide an income that after expenses that is > 80% labor (skill) charge. > > Not a few smaller tools have proven to be good investments. The came > bender (actualy the second one) has seen noble service as have a lot > of other things. Then my cat Freeway looked up from his current > favorite spot. > > Freeway turned up ten years ago and lived in the attic for a few > months before he was invited inside. What a moneymaker he has been. > With two exceptions he has been most welcome to prospective clients. > For years now he has greeted people that show up at the door. > Oftentimes the first few minutes of conversation that we have is on > the subject of cats. > > Having covered the common ground of cats it is time to move on to > business. I find that I can communicate with people on business > matters better when I know a little something about them and I am > sure that my prospective clients feel the same way. Well, Freeway > provides this ice breaking and I am sure that many commissions have > come to me due to this. So I say, get a cat to raise your profit > margins. Bob > > ____ > Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 > *If they were not ment to be fleeced, then why were they created > sheep?* > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 13 06:17:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 05:36:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel Abedi" To: "scott floyd" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: ring saw... Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 20:32:32 +0800 Message-ID: <1998Jul14.43232.0> Precedence: bulk I would second that. Taurus II Ring saw anytime. :) But remember that is the only saw I have tried. Shakeel Abedi 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Johor Malaysia Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 shakeel@tm.net.my -----Original Message----- From: scott floyd To: glass@bungi.com Date: Monday, July 13, 1998 7:58 AM Subject: RE: ring saw... > Re:SAW... well the ring saw i use is hard to cut straight because it >cuts so fast, but i dont ever use it for straight lines.....just use my >cutter.... > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 13 07:50:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 06:58:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: polishing rocks for glass projects Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 20:00:01 -0600 Message-ID: <1998Jul12.1401.0> Precedence: bulk Mike, as a new bungi member, I have slowly been making my way through the archives. I had my brother cut about 10 lbs of stones for me with is tile saw. They came out very interesting and I am sure I will be able to find a use for them. In this archive you mention that you just bought a bevel max and implied that you can use it to polish stones, could you please explain. Thanks cj >From archives (mike's message): i have a lapidary saw a 6" gemstone. it does'nt cut flat glass well it tends to crack do to vibration. however it should be able to cut thicker glass like dalle glass that 1" stuff. i was hoping to be able to cut bottles on that thing, but apparently i can'nt. but i can cut rocks and i just got the bevel max, so i should be able to polish my agates. BTW you would'nt happen to have a catalog taht sells decent uncut or cut agates would you? the only polished agates i found are at meuseums or fleamarkets. and uncut's, once at a zinc mine. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 13 08:19:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 07:00:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: PATTERN BOOKS Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 19:52:19 -0600 Message-ID: <1998Jul12.135219.0> Precedence: bulk Albert, yes I have created these patterns myself. I can understand where the choice of "collected" was confusing. I mean they all have a common presentation or theme...something like you would see in a pattern book. They are unique in that there are no pattern books for this area, but I do believe they would make great hobbiest patterns. Easy to medium difficulty. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 13 08:36:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 07:06:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Help with a stepping stone class Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:05:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul13.6511.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:AlexG2@aol.com >Does anyone have any ideas for projects or patterns?< A sun is a very good pattern to do, either with pre-cut pieces (simple circle and some triangles) or as a free-form using scrap glass pieces. Also (more difficult) a moon 'n' stars pattern is good. So is an abstract wave pattern. You might also want to use scrap mirror pieces. These add a delightful touch of whimsy to a piece. Good luck. Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 13 13:46:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:54:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk!s.richard From: Steve Richard To: jerri m Roey Subject: Re: shelf primer stuck to glass Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 19:05:13 +0100 Message-ID: <1998Jul13.20513.0> References: <<1998Jul12.12846.0@?>> Precedence: bulk In message <1998Jul12.12846.0@?>, jerri m Roey writes > Any suggestions on how to remove shelf primer that stuck to the >glass in the kiln? Ugh. Others will (I hope) give suggestions I can use too! >Also, how do you know when to reapply shelf >primer. The last time I used the kiln, everything was fine. This time >everything stuck. Some would replace ths primer every time. I do this for batt wash, but for the proprietary primers, I have found it safe to fuse no more than 3 times, although painting and slumping could go to 6 firings. But another really inexpensive separater is whiting. Spread a layer, say a quarter of an inch thick with a flour sifter or similar (to ensure you have no big lumps), then smooth with a piece of glass, or merely push(or settle) the piece to be fused into the whiting. Works really well, especially if you have fired the kiln to about 450 degrees fahrenheit to remove any moisture. steve -- Steve Richard Verrier Art Glass Ltd s.richard@verrier-scotland.demon.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 13 14:14:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:05:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Norman & Claudette Jaramillo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: polishing agates Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 15:51:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul13.11510.0> References: <<1998Jul11.235151.0>> Precedence: bulk Norman & Claudette Jaramillo wrote: > > Mike, as a new bungi member, I have slowly been making my way through the > archives. I had my brother cut about 10 lbs of stones for me with is tile > saw. They came out very interesting and I am sure I will be able to find a > use for them. In this archive you mention that you just bought a bevel max > and implied that you can use it to polish stones, could you please explain. > Thanks cj > > >From archives (mike's message): > i have a lapidary saw a 6" gemstone. it does'nt cut flat glass well it > tends to crack do to vibration. however it should be able to cut thicker > glass like dalle glass that 1" stuff. i was hoping to be able to cut > bottles on that thing, but apparently i can'nt. but i can cut rocks and > i just got the bevel max, so i should be able to polish my agates. BTW > you would'nt happen to have a catalog taht sells decent uncut or cut > agates would you? the only polished agates i found are at meuseums or > fleamarkets. and uncut's, once at a zinc mine. > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass when i first got the saw (actually before), i asked the people who made it, "can it polish agates?" they said yes, and i bought it. problem is you really can't, you can level it off with the diamond wheel, but not much else. the paper discs tend to rip really easily and you can't get a good hold on the stone. as far as i can tell the bevel max can't polish agates (unless, maybe, just maybe, there very small.) ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 13 14:17:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:08:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: fibers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: glass saw Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 15:54:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul13.11548.0> References: <<1998Jul12.53837.0>> Precedence: bulk fibers wrote: > > I am considering buying a glass saw, either band or ring saw. I see > replacement grommets offered with each. How ofter must these be > replaced? > I'm told that cutting a streight line with a ring saw is difficult. > What has your experience been? > TIA > Nelda > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass cutting a straight line on any kind of bandsaw will be difficult. a guide would be need for both. the ringsaw people say that the grommets will wear out pretty fast, with a new blade. when the blade is very sharp and new. once the blade "smooths" out a bit, the grommets should wear longer. mine are still holding up pretty well... in anycase, you can cut in any direction with the ringsaw, and you have one of the larges working areas. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 13 14:40:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:39:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: PATTERN BOOKS Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:05:39 +0000 Message-ID: <199807131931.PAA14744@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Albert, yes I have created these patterns myself. I can understand where > the choice of "collected" was confusing. Yes, I was confused. Thanks for the clarification. And good luck with the book project! Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 13 17:16:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:46:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Bio #36 Mary Austin Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:53:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199807131653.JAA20262@ns2.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk Dear Mary, I was truely touched by your bio. God bless you! Smiles, Cindy > >My name is Mary Austin. I live in Indiana. > >I've been doing stained glass for about 4 years now. I'm legally blind and >thankfully work using a large magnifying light that was donated from where >my husband works. I love doing panels, windows and am looking forward to >doing stepping stones. I hope to do a pond this summer using the brick mold. >I appreciate any and all help I receive from all of you. I have a 23 yr. old >daughter stationed in England in the air force and was lucky enough to get >to travel there and actually see some of the work done in their churches. > >My husband is a machinist and he helps me out by building my >cabinets( in which stained glass panels go) and supplying the brass rods for >my outside pieces. Best to all of you and for all your help. > > >Mary A. > > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 14 01:34:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 01:16:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: Citadel.edu!HILLEKER From: HILLEKER@Citadel.edu To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Subject: cut agates Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:23:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1998Jul13.7231.0> Precedence: bulk >i just got the bevel max, so i should be able to polish my agates. BTW >you would'nt happen to have a catalog taht sells decent uncut or cut >agates would you? the only polished agates i found are at meuseums or >fleamarkets. and uncut's, once at a zinc mine. Whitmore-Durgin used to sell cut and polished agates at a good price. I don't know if they still do, I haven't gotten their catalog for a while. Russ hilleker@citadel.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 14 04:38:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 04:15:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: cut agates Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 07:08:39 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul14.11839.0> Precedence: bulk >i just got the bevel max, so i should be able to polish my agates. BTW >you would'nt happen to have a catalog taht sells decent uncut or cut >agates would you? the only polished agates i found are at meuseums or >fleamarkets. and uncut's, once at a zinc mine. >> I have a catalog from Fire Mountain Gems that has a page of agate cabachons. They have blue agate, lace agate, botswana, crazy lace, green, indian mixed and tree agates. Sizes run from 6 x 4 mm up to 40 x 30 mm. You can order a catlog on-line at firemtn.com or toll free at 800-292-3473. For uncut try Olympic Mountain Gems on-line at omgems.com. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 14 05:41:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 05:17:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hotmail.com!marycooper From: "Mary Cooper" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Catalog Sales Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 14:09:11 PDT Message-ID: <1998Jul10.21911.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all- Does anyone have any experience getting their work in catalogs? I have designed a couple of pieces that I know would do well in specialty catalogs.. I have done a few trunk shows (I do glass jewlery and small "cold glass" work)I have sold many pieces in gallerys and artsy type stores-- I have not done any art fairs, but I am very nervous (yet excited) about moving on to bigger and bettter.. Someone (Christie?) posted awhile back about doing a wholesale show and that really got me excited, I would love the oppurtunity, but am new to "promoting" myself as a serious artist. I guess its time to make the leap, and not look back. Any feedback would be delightful! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 14 07:46:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 07:26:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: cut agates Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:24:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul14.62410.0> References: <<1998Jul13.7231.0>> Precedence: bulk HILLEKER@Citadel.edu wrote: > > >i just got the bevel max, so i should be able to polish my agates. BTW > >you would'nt happen to have a catalog taht sells decent uncut or cut > >agates would you? the only polished agates i found are at meuseums or > >fleamarkets. and uncut's, once at a zinc mine. > > Whitmore-Durgin used to sell cut and polished agates at a good price. > I don't know if they still do, I haven't gotten their catalog for a > while. > > Russ > hilleker@citadel.edu > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it's still in all their catalogs. but there always either sold out, or they don't exist. you would think they would at least cross it out as a choice... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 14 09:51:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 09:11:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!StndGlass1 From: To: morn@nac.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: cut agates Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 12:08:58 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul14.16858.0> Precedence: bulk We do have around 400 sliced agates in stock, unfortunately while they are all attractive, they are separated by size and not by color. We have small, medium and large, and they are natural, blue, purple and pink ( I'm pretty sure that is what is left). If you are interested, let me know and I'll get you more specific information. Jenna Meredith-Sanders Meredith Stained Glass www.meredithglass.com stnglass@meredithglass.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 14 10:16:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 09:13:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: crcwnet.com!dandl From: Dave & Lynn Loda To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Vinyl Cutters Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 09:17:24 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul14.21724.0> Organization: Art Glass of Wenatchee Precedence: bulk We are about to take the plunge and purchase a vinyl cutter for our shop. It will be a 24" one since that's the max size the mini-passer takes, and second of all we cannot afford anything larger. Anyone have any opinions on the various makes out there? TIA Dave -- ____________________ Dave & Lynn Loda Art Glass of Wenatchee http://www.artglassw.com Stained Glass Gifts & Supplies ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 14 10:30:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 09:22:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Catalog Sales Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:15:13 -0700 Message-ID: <199807141515.IAA07007@norm.island.net> Precedence: bulk Hi Mary, I don't have experience in getting into catalogues, but my guess is it's not that different than getting into juried shows. First, I'd target a catalog (sounds like you've already done that), phone them, talk to their head buyer and get info...do they jury continually, or for specific seasonal catalogs...what do they look for...quality, quantity, price points Send them exactly what they ask for. My guess is that it's also important to demonstrate that you are organized enough to produce the item(s) chosen in quantity, so make sure you include that in your written promo stuff that you would send with your samples. Good luck, >Hi all- >Does anyone have any experience getting their work in catalogs? >I have designed a couple of pieces that I know would do well in >specialty catalogs.. > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 14 11:29:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 11:04:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aracnet.net!bigcreek From: Wayne Parks To: Dave & Lynn Loda Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-UNICODE-2-0-UTF-7 Subject: Re: Vinyl Cutters Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 14:01:34 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul14.10134.0> References: <<1998Jul14.21724.0>> Organization: Big Creek Studio Precedence: bulk Dave: Have been using a Vinyl cutter for several years to cut resist for abrasive etching. I am using a Mimaki "My Cut" that I chose after a lot of research into various cutters. For me width of cut was not as important as the ability to cut very small letters. The Mimaki was the clear winner in this category cutting letters as small as .125". The Roland Camm-1, the other cutter that even came close to the Mimaki, was the runner up. One consideration when choosing size, other than the initial capital cost, is the cost of vinyl. Of course all programs offer the ability to tile, so width of cut is not that important. If you have any further questions please contact me directly. Wayne Parks Big Creek Studio bigcreek@aracnet.net To bring the dead to life Is no great magic. Few are wholly dead: Blow on a dead mans embers And a live flame will start. Robert Graves ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 14 12:30:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 12:15:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!StndGlass1 From: To: balloch@netbridge.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: cut agates Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 15:12:30 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul14.191230.0> Precedence: bulk Okay.. here goes pricing: Small slices of agate range from 1.5" to 2" wide and are $1.00 each. Medium slices of agate range from 2.5" to 3" wide and are $1.75 each. Large slices of agate range from 3.5" to 5" wide and are $2.50 each. Again, the colors we have in stock currently are teal, blue, pink (more like fuschia), purple and natural (varying shades of brown). Jenna Meredith-Sanders Meredith Stained Glass www.meredithglass.com stnglass@meredithglass.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 14 13:31:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 14 Jul 1998 12:59:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie Wood & George D'Ascenzo" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Catalog Sales Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 14:46:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul14.104629.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Mary Cooper" >Hi all- Does anyone have any experience getting their work in catalogs? I have designed a couple of pieces that I know would do well in = specialty catalogs.. I have done a few trunk shows (I do glass jewlery and small "cold glass" = work)I have sold many pieces in gallerys and artsy type stores-- I have = not done any art fairs, but I am very nervous (yet excited) about moving = on to bigger and bettter.. Someone (Christie?) posted awhile back about doing a wholesale show and = that really got me excited, I would love the oppurtunity, but am new to = "promoting" myself as a serious artist. I guess its time to make the leap, and not look back. Any feedback would be delightful!< Christie here. If you want to hit the catalog people, you need to do the Gift Shows. These are product shows only open to gallery, museum, catalog, and retail store owners. There are a number of shows which specifically target catalog owners. These include most of the shows promoted by Fairchild Urban Expositions. These include the Philadelphia Gift Show, the Columbus (Ohio) Gift Show, and the Chicago Gift Show. For more information, contact: Fairchild Urban Exposition 5500 Interstate North Parkway, Suite 520 Atlanta, GA 30328 Karin Schwab 1-800-318-2238 (she's in charge of the August Columbus show)= email: FUE@fairchildpub.com I am doing the August Columbus Gift show. This will be my second wholesale show, and the first gift show. There are major differences between a Gift Show and a juried Hand-Made Wholesale Show, such as the Rosen Groups' Buyer's Market of American Craft. Gift shows include imported items as well as hand-crafted goods. Gift shows are not necessarily juried. Most time= s they just let in companies until they have every booth space filled. Gift shows do not necessarily have limits on the number of companies allowed in per craft category (i.e. only 100 potters, 100 glass craftspeople, 100 fabric artists, etc.). In this Columbus Gift show, I was allowed in without sending in any photos of my work, and was told they did not have specific limits for the number of glass artists in the show. However, there was someone from this show who attended the other wholesale show I did (Market Square's Traditional American Craft show), and they did see my work and ask me if I would be interested in doing the Columbus show. So I'm not clear about the jurying that actually goes on with Gift shows. I do know that the Rosen Group's shows are highly juried, only allow in hand-made in American goods, and require that the artist actually run the booth. Gift shows allow manufacturer's representatives to run the booth. So, know something about the show before you go appying to them. I attended wholesale shows for 2 years as a buyer prior to becoming a supplier. Christie A. Wood, Art Glass Ensembles 4013 Skippack Pike, P.O.Box 903, Skippack, PA 19474-0903 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 15 01:05:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 00:56:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel Abedi" To: "Bungi Group" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Making Bevels Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 15:53:05 +0800 Message-ID: <1998Jul15.23535.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Guys Been folowing the Bevel chat. Something regarding the bevel came up yesterday and I had to jump into the discussion. A friend was going to Singapore yesterday so I asked him to get me eight pieces of 1" x 4" corner bevels. Stupid me, I did not get the price earlier and did not tell my friend (who knows nothing about stained glass) not to buy if too expensive. Anyway, my good brought me the bevels, and a bill of about US$ 40.00 (at current exchange rates) I dont know if bevels are that expensive, but certainly it has bloated my cost for the panel. I could have used some other textured glass for the same effect at much lower cost. I don't think that I have been had, for the supplier (who is also IGGA member- Reggie Lim from Singapore) has laways given me a good price. The point of my story is: Can we make our own bevels? How. Could someone give a brief outline of the procedure? Or suggest a book, or send a photocopy of any article from any book or magazine? PS. What's the cost of 1"x4" corner bevel in U.S. ? Thanks a million. Shakeel Abedi 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Johor Malaysia Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 shakeel@tm.net.my ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 15 01:35:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 00:57:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel Abedi" To: "Bungi Group" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: SGAA Reference & Technical Manual Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 15:58:18 +0800 Message-ID: <1998Jul15.235818.0> Precedence: bulk Been to the SGAA Home page, and read about the SGAA Reference & Technical manual. Has anyone read it? A review and recommendations would profit many, I am sure. Thanks Shakeel Abedi 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Johor Malaysia Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 shakeel@tm.net.my ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 15 05:07:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 04:35:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ezl.com!stepsue From: Sue Prullage To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: kiln molds Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 06:30:32 -0600 Message-ID: <1998Jul15.03032.0> Precedence: bulk I am new into kiln production. I was wondering if everyone that has a kiln buys premade molds or do they improvise. I would love to hear about different things that can be used as potential molds. I also was wondering about kiln painting. I haven't bought any paints yet and I was unsure which brand is best. Any suggestions? Thanks, Sue ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 15 06:11:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 05:47:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel Abedi" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: kiln molds Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 20:57:01 +0800 Message-ID: <1998Jul16.4571.0> Precedence: bulk I would be interested too. In fact buying a kiln has been the biggest temptation these days. I would like to even add to Sue's request. What would be the basic fused glass (kiln) kit. Could some one give a list of Starter Kit for Kiln work. Much like Mike's Stained Glass Starter kit at his wonderful Home Page. Just Started Home Page: Visit if you have nothing else to do. But docome back, things certainly will change. Planning on adding photos of myself, studio and some works. http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Atrium/2543/ Shakeel Abedi 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Johor Malaysia Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 shakeel@tm.net.my -----Original Message----- From: Sue Prullage To: glass@bungi.com Date: Wednesday, July 15, 1998 8:24 PM Subject: kiln molds >I am new into kiln production. I was wondering if everyone that has a >kiln buys premade molds or do they improvise. I would love to hear >about different things that can be used as potential molds. I also was >wondering about kiln painting. I haven't bought any paints yet and I >was unsure which brand is best. Any suggestions? Thanks, Sue >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 15 08:24:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 07:42:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Making Bevels Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 07:19:30 +0000 Message-ID: <199807151247.IAA05860@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > The point of my story is: Can we make our own bevels? How. Could someone > give a brief outline of the procedure? Or suggest a book, or send a > photocopy of any article from any book or magazine? There's a book search tool on the Guild's home page at http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ Just type in whatever you're looking for and Amazon.com lists what's available. If you order anything, the Guild gets a commission of 5%. If you go directly to Amazon.com and do the same thing, the Guild gets nothing. Oh, I just tried it and turned up Vincent Fox's book ... which is out of print. Nothing else around, I guess. No, there's "How to Work in Beveled Glass" by Seymour and Anita Isenberg, which I found in the Guild's pages at http://www.aiap.com/amazon/amazon29.htm but it's also unavailable. Okay, then. You could try the used book sellers, starting with whitehouse-books.com which specializes in glass books. But yes, you can make your own bevels. There are certainly a number of manufacturers of beveling equipment, both serious-sized and hobby level. Some of them are: Covington Engineering Corporation, 715 West Colton Avenue, PO Box 35, Redlands CA 92373. Phone: (909) 793-6636. Fx: (909) 793-7641. Denver Glass Machinery, 2800 S. Shoshone Street, Englewood CO 80110. Phone: (303) 781-0980. (303) 781-0982. Fx: (303) 781-9067. see also Denver's discount to Guild members at http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/suppsupp.htm Diamond Tech International, 4002 W. State Street, Tampa FL 33609. Phone: (813) 872-4404. (800) 937-9593. Fx: (813) 872-6288. E-mail: dti@digital.net Web site: http://www.artglassworld.com/supply/dti Gemstone Equipment Manufacturing Co., 750 Easy Street, Simi Valley CA 93065. Phone: (805) 527-6990. (800) 235-3375. Fx: (805) 526-7603. Glastar, 20721 Marilla Street, Chatsworth CA 91311. Phone: (813) 341-0301. (800) 423-5635. Fx: (818)998-2078. and so on. Some of them might even have books, manuals, guides, etc. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 15 09:53:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:36:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: intel.com!lynice.spangler From: "Spangler, Lynice" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: RE: Making Bevels Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:36:17 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul15.23617.0> Precedence: bulk There are some glass grinders that come with attachment kits used to make bevels. The kit usually contains a sort of mini lap wheel. The one I have is the Diamond Max/Bevel Max (from Diamond Tech as mentioned in Albert's mail). I have practiced some on it, but I have earned a new respect for those who make bevels. I'm sure the professionals have superior equipment, but making bevels is not easy. I have not used any bevels I've made in a project. I have not yet decided if that's where I want to spend my precious glass hours because it takes (me anyway) a lot of time. L. Spangler On Wednesday, July 15, 1998 12:20 AM, Albert Lewis [SMTP:alewis@vgernet.net] wrote: > > > The point of my story is: Can we make our own bevels? How. Could someone > > give a brief outline of the procedure? Or suggest a book, or send a > > photocopy of any article from any book or magazine? > > There's a book search tool on the Guild's home page at > http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ > Just type in whatever you're looking for and Amazon.com lists what's > available. If you order anything, the Guild gets a commission of 5%. > If you go directly to Amazon.com and do the same thing, the Guild > gets nothing. > > Oh, I just tried it and turned up Vincent Fox's book ... which is out > of print. Nothing else around, I guess. No, there's "How to Work in > Beveled Glass" by Seymour and Anita Isenberg, which I found in the > Guild's pages at > http://www.aiap.com/amazon/amazon29.htm > but it's also unavailable. > > Okay, then. You could try the used book sellers, starting with > whitehouse-books.com > which specializes in glass books. > > But yes, you can make your own bevels. There are certainly a number > of manufacturers of beveling equipment, both serious-sized and hobby > level. Some of them are: > > Covington Engineering Corporation, 715 West Colton Avenue, > PO Box 35, Redlands CA 92373. Phone: (909) > 793-6636. Fx: (909) 793-7641. > > Denver Glass Machinery, 2800 S. Shoshone Street, > Englewood CO 80110. Phone: (303) 781-0980. (303) > 781-0982. Fx: (303) 781-9067. > > see also Denver's discount to Guild members at > http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/suppsupp.htm > > Diamond Tech International, 4002 W. State Street, Tampa FL > 33609. Phone: (813) 872-4404. (800) 937-9593. > Fx: (813) 872-6288. E-mail: dti@digital.net Web > site: http://www.artglassworld.com/supply/dti > > Gemstone Equipment Manufacturing Co., 750 Easy Street, > Simi Valley CA 93065. Phone: (805) 527-6990. > (800) 235-3375. Fx: (805) 526-7603. > > Glastar, 20721 Marilla Street, Chatsworth CA 91311. Phone: > (813) 341-0301. (800) 423-5635. Fx: > (818)998-2078. > > and so on. Some of them might even have books, manuals, guides, etc. > > Albert > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 15 10:23:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:47:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: intel.com!lynice.spangler From: "Spangler, Lynice" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: RE: kiln molds Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:46:20 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul15.24620.0> Precedence: bulk In answer to the mold question, stainless steel (bowls, plates, etc.) work well for slumping *over*. I have acquired some interesting pieces from Goodwill for this purpose (not sure if they have Goodwill in India, but it's basically a second-hand store). For slumping *in*, I make molds using a mixture of a very fine vermiculite and fondu cement and water. I don't have the actual bags in front of me so I don't have product names, but I could only find this stuff at a local contractor's building supply (not Home Depot). We needed a business license to shop there. After mixing this stuff together to a consistency of mud, I slap it on a form (like an upside down bowl) and pat it out to make sure most air bubbles are out. Let is dry for 24 hours. Bake it in the oven at 250F for 12 hours. Kiln wash the inside, and fire to 1000. It may take a few iterations of sanding, kiln washing, firing to get it to the texture (smoothness) you want. There's also a Boyce Lundstrom book on the subject. It's the 3rd in his fusing series. On Wednesday, July 15, 1998 5:57 AM, Shakeel Abedi [SMTP:shakeel@tm.net.my] wrote: > I would be interested too. In fact buying a kiln has been the biggest > temptation these days. > I would like to even add to Sue's request. > What would be the basic fused glass (kiln) kit. > > Could some one give a list of Starter Kit for Kiln work. Much like Mike's > Stained Glass Starter kit at his wonderful Home Page. > > Just Started Home Page: Visit if you have nothing else to do. > But docome back, things certainly will change. > Planning on adding photos of myself, studio and some works. > http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Atrium/2543/ > Shakeel Abedi > 104, Jalan Mersing > 86000 Kluang > Johor > Malaysia > Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 > shakeel@tm.net.my > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sue Prullage > To: glass@bungi.com > Date: Wednesday, July 15, 1998 8:24 PM > Subject: kiln molds > > > >I am new into kiln production. I was wondering if everyone that has a > >kiln buys premade molds or do they improvise. I would love to hear > >about different things that can be used as potential molds. I also was > >wondering about kiln painting. I haven't bought any paints yet and I > >was unsure which brand is best. Any suggestions? Thanks, Sue > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 15 10:51:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:29:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, shakeel@tm.net.my Subject: Making Bevels Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 13:25:23, -0500 Message-ID: <199807151725.NAA17610@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>The point of my story is: Can we make our own bevels? How. Could someone give a brief outline of the procedure? Or suggest a book, or send a photocopy of any article from any book or magazine? PS. What's the cost of 1"x4" corner bevel in U.S. ?<< Get Vincent Fox's book *Glass Beveling* for the best I know of rundown on glass beveling. Denver Glass Machinery has reprinted it. It is also available (original edition) from Hollander LA if you have a wholesale account there. The subject of glass beveling is a big one. Even if you never get into beveling Fox's book will make you a lot smarter and allow you to use beveled glass to greater advantage. I assume you are referring to 1" X 4" mitered corner bevels. They retail for about US$2.00 in the US and are mostly made in Taiwan. I recommend you do not buy into a small beveling outfit until and unless you can try one out and prove to yourself that it will actually do what it is advertised to do and what you want to do. Bob,who needs to get a bevel project out NOW. ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *If they were not ment to be fleeced, then why were they created sheep?* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 15 12:53:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 12:18:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hotmail.com!marycooper From: "Mary Cooper" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: kiln molds Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 12:16:53 PDT Message-ID: <1998Jul15.191653.0> Precedence: bulk Look carefully at the "Floral Former" a free-form mold for slumping into a vase shape. Its actually very similar to the tin you get when you order a milkshake. And actually I have used that tin, a stainless vessel, sanded down then coated in kiln wash. Works great. (got mine free from the local ice cream shop, the were gonna toss it because of a dent in the lip that wouldnt allow it to fit on their blender) Try a local ceramics supplier, they offer greenware that can be used as molds too-I have several shallow bowls that I use. They don't stand a lot of firing, but hey-they're cheap. I "prefire" any greenware to get the last bits of moisture out that may be in it from the slip. Allways coat with several layers of kilnwash and let dry thourougly, then sand LIGHTLY. Don't breathe this stuff in. Fiber Blanket can be fun and inventive, too. Have Fun! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 15 16:29:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 16:18:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Non-s.g. Thanks Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 00:12:22 +0000 Message-ID: <199807152315.AAA14855@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hi All, ...for what it's worth... I am back in UK from Sweden..... I have about 130 personal off-group messages from you all. All containing affection and support. Will reply to them all ..... one-by-one..... There was just not ONE single "cyber-cafe" in sight for 100's of miles.... Thank you ALL so much! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK ( the latter - who was rather "cheesed off") ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 15 16:59:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 15:54:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hotmail.com!mrsdesigns From: "Michele Spruill" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: gift shows etc. Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:27:17 PDT Message-ID: <1998Jul15.172717.0> Precedence: bulk I read with interest Mary's message yesterday about catalog sales. Christie brought up some good thoughts about the Wholesale and Gift shows. I have been playing in some craft fairs lately and had read about the gift shows in a directory of shows. I want to attend The Philadelphia Gift Show to look around, and there is one in York,PA as well. I agree one should know about a show before participating. What do the promotors require for identification to be admitted as a buyer to these kind of shows? Michele ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 15 18:31:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 18:20:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Kiln work Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 07:28:21 -0600 Message-ID: <1998Jul15.12821.0> Precedence: bulk Also, if you don't care how long a mold lasts. I did a project that required about 50-60 leaves. I made the molds from plaster of paris...just molding it with my hands. The largest piece was 3" in diameter. Once fired, the plaster does break apart, but since I wanted to form the leaves individually, this worked well for me. I have since then purchased refractory plaster. I was told it would last for multiple firings, it doesn't dry as fast as plaster of paris, so you can work with it. However, because I am not pouring my molds, but forming them with my hands, the refractory plaster also cracks after one firing, but not as much as plaster of paris. Also I can cut out forms from many different materials such as stryrofoam, and then build the mold from a starting point. I also have purchased greenware from a local ceramic store. It is amazing the shapes and ideas that will come from looking at the obvious in a total different point of view. Greenware works better for draping than slumping. Be sure to drill a few air holes in a large plate or bowl. I also prefire. Stainless steel spoons make great leaves and flower petal forms. I use Hot-line shelf primer on everything. I use Spray A to prevent divitrification (sp?). While I started with Gil Reynolds book on Fusing, this is a technique that requires experimentation. Every time I do something inventive, I know that I may have to work it out over a period of time. Kiln work requires patience and problem solving skills. Every type of glass or form has its own subtle requirements. But it is a thrill to form glass into a flower that really looks real! cj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 15 20:04:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 19:31:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: Sue Prullage Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: kiln molds.glass paints Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:27:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul15.182749.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Sue- We do tons of glass painting at our studio and use as our "bible" the = book entitled "The Art of Painting on Glass" by Albinus Elskus. For his technique, Reusche glass paints are best - you don't get the blotchy effect of the cheaper brands which are fine for suncatchers but not much else - they're pricey, but worth it if you plan to do a lot of painting. The company should be listed in the IGGA Sources guide - let me know if you need more info and I'll dig it up. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 16 00:13:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 23:14:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel Abedi" To: "Charles Warner" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Information about SGAA Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 13:31:12 +0800 Message-ID: <1998Jul16.213112.0> Precedence: bulk Charles, The SGAA site is at: http://www.stainedglass.org/ The SGAA Reference & Technical Manual is at: http://www.stainedglass.org/reference.html The review of the manual by IGGA is at: http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/sgaa.htm Just Started Home Page: Visit if you have nothing else to do. But docome back, things certainly will change. Planning on adding photos of myself, studio and some works. http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Atrium/2543/ Shakeel Abedi 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Johor Malaysia Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 shakeel@tm.net.my ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 16 07:09:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 06:08:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: gift shows etc. Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:07:04 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul16.574.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Michele Spruill" >I want to attend The Philadelphia Gift Show to look around, and there is= = one in York,PA as well. I agree one should know about a show before = participating. What do the promotors require for identification to be = admitted as a buyer to these kind of shows?< At least 3 types of business identification. These include business license, business checking account proof (such as a check), business card= , state resell license (state tax id), copy of a Yellow Pages ad, etc. For= some shows you also have to have a photo id to pick up the badge, just so= that someone else cannot claim they are you. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 16 07:37:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 06:23:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!StndGlass1 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: New Website Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:22:47 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul16.132247.0> Precedence: bulk Hey there! I'd like to ask you all to do me a favor if you could. I've been working on the new version of our website for almost 7 months now, and it has just gone up! It has full online catalog with ordering capabilities, and wholesale customers that have qualified with us can use a password to access their wholesale pricing and order online! The pictures of the products aren't up yet (will be adding many every day for the next couple of weeks), but there are full descriptions and all of the pricing. We have a free pattern (in time to become a pattern archive), LIVE chat (not message board style, but LIVE) coming August 1, and much more. Anyway, long story short, now that it is up, I'd love it if you would take a look and tell me what you think (anything could be better? another feature you'd like? etc.) Let me know if you catch programming flaws too, though I think we've caught all of those already. The secure ordering will be effective early next week as we are currently waiting on our secure certificate to come from somewhere in South Africa. Meanwhile, take a peek around and let me know what you think! Thanks for your time! Jenna Meredith-Sanders Meredith Stained Glass http://www.meredithglass.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 16 07:41:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:00:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Beveler4 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Beveling,making your own Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:59:08 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul16.13598.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Shakeel, As Bob has already said beveling is a whole new subject. there are many machines to do the job, some are good others aren't so good. I have found that small outfits like the bevelmax are ok after a lot of practice to make cut-offs to make a certain bevel fit, but as far as real beveling they can't cut it. They are difficult to make any curve on and it takes a lot of time. If you are really serious about beveling the book by Vince Fox is the best and the other book by the Isenbergs is also a good choice. Vince actually explains how to make the equipment if you have the know how and the means to do so ,(Not Easy,believe me trust me on that one).Vince taught me the art and I love it .GOOD LUCK any questions let me know. Beveler4(Stan) P.S. These are the only two books that I have ever found on the subject of beveling if anyone out there knows of any others please let me know. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 16 09:38:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:08:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Apprentice wanted Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:22:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199807161422.KAA26490@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk Southern New Jersey Architectural Glass studio is actively seeking individual interested in apprenticing with nationally known glass artist. Individual must possess experience in leadwork and all major technical aspects of glass. And must be physically able to work with large structures. Interested applicants please email copy of current resume to artglass@waterw.com for more information. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 16 16:38:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:05:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: kiln molds/glass paints Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 19:05:02 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul16.1552.0> Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: "Albert Lewis", INTERNET:alewis@vgernet.net TO: "Michael J. Greer", GreerStudios DATE: 7/16/98 5:34 AM RE: Re: kiln molds.glass paints Sender: alewis@vgernet.net Received: from vger.vgernet.net (vgernet.net [205.219.186.1]) by arl-img-8.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.12) with ESMTP id FAA07262 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 05:34:30 -0400 (EDT)= Received: from adams.bcn.net (napm6.vgernet.net [208.144.209.36]) by vger.vgernet.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA06408 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:09:46 -0400 (EDT)= Message-Id: <199807161109.HAA06408@vger.vgernet.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Albert Lewis" To: "Michael J. Greer" Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 05:40:51 +0000 Subject: Re: kiln molds.glass paints X-Confirm-Reading-To: "Albert Lewis" X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) > technique, Reusche glass paints ... > to do a lot of painting. The company > should be listed in the IGGA Sources > guide - let me know if you need more > info and I'll dig it up. But it is, Dani! http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guider.htm Although I get the impression they don't sell direct any longer, only = through distributors: Reusche & Co. of T.W.S., Inc., 1299 H Street, Greeley CO 80631. Phone: (970) 346-8577. Fax: (970) 346-8575. = Paint, painting kits, manufacturer. Paint brushes, fusing and painting enamels. Distributed by: Fenton Glass Studio, Ed Hoy's, S.A. Bendheim, Hudson Glass, and McGill Warehouse in the US, Australian Stained Glass Supplies (Australia), Decorative Glass Supplies (England), Creative Glass MHS AG (Switzerland), Artistic Glass (Canada), Kaleido Glass (Canada), Artisans du Vitral (Canada), A.T.V. (Italy), and James Hetley & Co., Ltd. (England). Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 16 17:08:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:21:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Klmxklm From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Glass Patterns Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 19:15:48 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul16.231548.0> Precedence: bulk Hi All: Does anyone happen to have an E-mail address (or URL) for "West of the Moon"? Thanks! "Mike" Mikolajczak ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 16 18:44:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 17:09:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: oregontrail.net!dterry From: Douglas R Terry To: "bungie." Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: beveled mirror Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 15:00:00 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul16.800.0> Precedence: bulk I need a beveled mirror oval shape approx. 10 or 12" by 16" (a stock size near this would work.) I think approx. 3/8 to 1/2" thick. This is for a base for a blown glass piece I am making. If someone has a supplier, preferably in the US West Coast, but any US address would work. I don't normally use this type of item, so if someone could give me what a reasonable price might be, and any tips on using it. I plan to glue the piece to the mirror with ultraviolet glue. If there are problems with this, please let me know. Douglas Terry (from the Alps of Oregon) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 16 19:04:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 16 Jul 1998 17:34:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: flinet.com!kenneil From: Ken Neil To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: subscribe Please Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 20:34:50 -0500 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk I am back in town and looking forward to receiving bungi. Thank you Brenda ******************************************************************** Been There........ Done That! Ken Neil Jupiter, Florida ******************************************************************** ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 17 15:40:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 12:10:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Antique Photographic Glass Negatives Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 12:21:34 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul17.82134.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all. I've got a client who has about 300 antique (1915-1916) photographic glass plate negatives she's inherited. We have worked out a unique way of using them in a lampshade, but I need to do some research on preservation of these negatives before I will take the order. Are there any special precautions I need to take when using these glass negative plates in the construction of a lampshade? It looks like the negative images were created using the old silver negatives technique. One side has the negative; one side is glass. Looks like it's 1/8" thick. I am planning on plating the negatives on top of a piece of Spectrum Ivory swirl glass, so that the antique negatives are not directly exposed to the light bulb. Do I need to prepare the negative with some kind of sealant such as mirror sealant? Are there certain fluxes I should avoid? Is it OK to expose these negatives to water during the clean-up process? If anyone out there can help, I would appreciate it greatly! Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 17 19:43:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 18:56:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Antique Photographic Glass Negatives Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 22:01:51 +0000 Message-ID: <199807180332.XAA18505@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > but I need to do some research on preservation of these > negatives before I will take the order. Julie Sloan suggests that you "plate" the emulsion side with clear glass to keep water away from it. She says other such projects have resulted in the emulsion (and the images) just being washed away by rain and sun, although those were exterior applications. Are the photos themselves worth anything? I'd suggest checking on that first. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 18 00:38:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:51:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: SGAA Reference & Technical Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:36:22 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul15.173622.0> Precedence: bulk I was fortunate enough to have an expert librarian assist me. He did an inter-library loan (don't know if available outside USA). It took a couple of weeks to find it and ship it to him. When it arrived I was absolutely astonished. It is a huge book over 3 inches thick and is beautifully illustrated. It covers all aspects of stained glass, history, kilns, etching, carving, restoration and repair, tools (old and new), of stained glass to lesson plans on how to teach stained glass courses. Unfortunately, I can't justify the outlay of $225 US for my therapy (stained glass). I'm still licking my wounds from putting my two sons through college to the MBA level. However, I highly recommend this complete tech manual for anyone who enjoys stained glass and I can foresee repeated references to it during numerous projects. Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 18 08:01:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 06:47:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Antique Photographic Glass Negatives Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 06:46:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199807181346.GAA02134@baby.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk Hi Christie, Old glass negatives, what a rare find. I have a suggestion that might help. Rather than using them directly, as I would imagaine they're extremely delicate giving the dated material. Go to a professional lab and see about having an emulsion produced right to the stained glass. You can print photographic images directly to canvas, wood, plates, buttons even brick or rock. I've even seen it done on eggs. If the lab can't do it they may be able to direct you to a company that can. This application would be more durable and would save those glass negatives from any abuse. Smiles, Cindy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 18 12:13:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 10:41:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: DIAMONDCRETE Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 13:40:13 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul18.174013.0> Precedence: bulk In need of help (again!) Making a stepping stone and using Diamondcrete for the first time. Opened the box it came in and there are no directions. How much water (I assume you use water) do I need to add per cup? And what consistency should it be? Any tips about pouring or anything else you can tell me would be appreciated. I can't believe there are no directions or labels or anything for this stuff! Is this the way it's usually packaged? There's no marking on the box, just a cardboard box with a plastic bag inside containing the mix. Thanks in advance. Brenda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 18 18:37:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 17:16:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Summer time blues...non glass Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 17:12:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199807190012.RAA11643@baby.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk Okay guys... where are you? Not too many messages for the past 2 days. So just to be silly here's a story I wrote:):) Fall is in the air. Winds blow madly with anger. Knocking leaves to the ground, as if they were in war. Animals scurry about to find the last morse of food before, it's taken away. But none are so busy, as the spider. Travelling many spider miles, each and every day. TO GET TO MY HOUSE!!! I must have a welcome sign hung up, or maybe....... I'm on the internet under accommodations for spiders. Never the less each year they come unwelcomed. I've truely seen all kinds, more than any spider book. And they'll do just about anything to get thru the door. Infact drain pipes are common roadways. Not to mention, that they take special courses, as they seem to, walk thru walls. But, it's kinda sad, I almost wish, to get a message out... to them. Probably you know the end of the story, for any spider, that dares! To come visit my house!!! the end, sorry guys I'm alittle bored:):) PS what ever you guys are doing must be fun, chuckle. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 18 18:59:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 17:21:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Summer time blues...non glass Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 17:20:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199807190020.RAA26790@baby.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk Okay guys... where are you? Not too many messages for the past 2 days. So just to be silly here's a story I wrote:):) Fall is in the air. Winds blow madly with anger. Knocking leaves to the ground, as if they were in war. Animals scurry about to find the last morse of food, before it's taken away. But none are so busy, as the spider. Travelling many spider miles, each and every day. TO GET TO MY HOUSE!!! I must have a welcome sign hung up, or maybe.......I'm on the internet under accommodations for spiders. Never the less each year they come unwelcomed. I've truely seen all kinds, more than any spider book. And they'll do just about anything to get thru the door. Infact drain pipes are common roadways. Not to mention, that they take special courses, as they seem to, walk thru walls. But, it's kinda sad I almost wish, I could get a message out... to them. Probably you know the end of the story, for any spider, that dares! To come visit my house!!! the end, sorry guys I'm alittle bored:):) PS what ever you guys are doing must be fun, chuckle. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 18 20:09:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 19:04:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: eatumup.com!byronw From: byronw@eatumup.com (Byron Wells) To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: beveled mirror Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 20:55:29 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul18.155529.0> Precedence: bulk Check in your local Yellow Pages Douglas.. I use a local flat glass beveler for larger beveling jobs and he can make me most anything...Should be someone like that in your area... Another place for stock type stuff would be arts and crafts places like Michaels MJ Designs if you have them in your area... Byron... Wells Glassworks -----Original Message----- From: Douglas R Terry To: bungie. Date: Thursday, July 16, 1998 12:50 PM Subject: beveled mirror >I need a beveled mirror oval shape approx. 10 or 12" by 16" (a stock >size >near this would work.) I think approx. 3/8 to 1/2" thick. This is for a >base >for a blown glass piece I am making. If someone has a supplier, >preferably >in the US West Coast, but any US address would work. I don't normally >use >this type of item, so if someone could give me what a reasonable price >might >be, and any tips on using it. I plan to glue the piece to the mirror >with >ultraviolet glue. If there are problems with this, please let me know. > >Douglas Terry >(from the Alps of Oregon) >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 18 21:43:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 20:28:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: , glass Subject: Re: DIAMONDCRETE Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 20:26:56 PDT Message-ID: References: <> Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "DIAMONDCRETE" on Jul 18, 13:40, writes:] > In need of help (again!) Making a stepping stone and using Diamondcrete for > the first time. Opened the box it came in and there are no directions. How > much water (I assume you use water) do I need to add per cup? And what > consistency should it be? Any tips about pouring or anything else you can > tell me would be appreciated. > > I can't believe there are no directions or labels or anything for this stuff! > Is this the way it's usually packaged? There's no marking on the box, just a > cardboard box with a plastic bag inside containing the mix. I wonder if you got diamondcrete? I've used this alot and I have always got directions as well as a labelled box. Check your source. The mixing instructions are: 14" round 19 cups 16" square 28 cups Hex 20 cups There are approx. 12 cups diamondcrete in a 10 lb. box. Other molds (less common) are also listed. Let me know if you need them all listed. A. 2 fl. oz of water (no more) to each 1 cup diamondcrete. B. First pour all the premeasured water into a mixing container. C. Mix vigorously until all lumps are gone. (2-3 min) D. Pour into mold that has a slight film of petroleum jelly. Now tap lightly for 20 seconds on bench around mold to removed air bubbles. E. Diamondcrete sets up in approx. 35 minutes but allow to remain in mold for 45 min - 1 hour. F. Allow to cure indoors at least 28 days. Elevate with pencils to allow air flow underneath. It's also wise to seal with a concrete sealer. Hope this helps. -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 18 22:23:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 21:14:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Beveler4 From: To: Glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: looking for Shakeel Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 00:12:38 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul19.41238.0> Precedence: bulk Shakeel I tried to send you an E-Mail but it would not go thru I will try to find you a copy of that book E-Mail me your address so that if I find it I can send it to you.Beveler4(Stan) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 19 06:05:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 05:02:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Summer time blues...non glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 07:11:02 +0000 Message-ID: <199807191338.JAA16280@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Okay guys... where are you? > Not too many messages for the past 2 days. Cindy, I've been on bungi for a couple of years and have noticed that weekends slow down ... everyone's doing chores, I guess. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 19 22:38:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 21:39:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: oxford.net!tmr From: "Teresa Ross" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: cutting straight line!!! Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 22:04:22 -0700 Message-ID: <199807200203.WAA00747@server1.oxford.net> Precedence: bulk Hi...I am a novice at this. I have written a couple of times and am very grateful for the help received.I can't seem to master cutting a straight line which isn't jagged. Grinding it out only seems to make it worse. I was told to go light on the grinding...can't seem to get it, and I am ruining lots of glass. Any tips...thanks in advance. teresa ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 19 23:43:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 22:23:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bio #37 Peggy Johnsen Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 00:22:40 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul19.192240.0> Precedence: bulk Name: Peggy W. Johnsen Location: Santa Maria, CA Studio: PJ's Stained Glass Studio I have worked in stained glass for some 12 years with prior experience in glass related art. I have two art minors and spent time in the Smokey Mountains at Gatlinburg, Tenn. Currently I work as an educational administrator full time. I have just sign my seventh contract with the Vandenberg Air Base to teach stained glass at their skill development center. My teaching curricula includes: Copper-foil method, lead came method, boxes, kaleidoscopes, mosaic garden stones, panel lamps, and three dimensional gift items. I do a lot of repair work including bent panel replacement which requires fusing. I do sand etching--mostly mirrors but some carving to support stained glass panels. I do commissions upon request. Hopefully, within the year, I plan to be a full time stained glass artist and craftsperson. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 19 23:49:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 22:31:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bio #38 Mike Peck Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 00:31:32 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul19.193132.0> Precedence: bulk Mike Peck I was born in Kansas City in 1951. My Dad was in the Navy so we traveled around a lot during my preschool and elementary grades, Virginia for a short while, then Jacksonville and Key West Florida. My memories of Florida are frightening, I remember huge land crabs that came= up from the beaches and scoured our garbage cans, snakes, lizards, scorpion= s, gators. My Mom was always telling me to stay away from the tall grass. We moved to Ventura California when I was in fourth grade, then to San Diego for the fifth grade and stayed there through my high school graduat= ion in 1969. My Dad was in the enlisted ranks in the Navy and I am the oldest of six children in our family, so when I graduated high school, there was no mon= ey for college. And, I wasn't a very good student so there were no scholarships. I was drafted in 1970 at the tender age of 19, and went to Viet Nam just about 18 months following the TET Offensive. I thought for the longest time that, that experience was the low point in my life. But= , looking back on it now, I realize that it actually took me about 4-5 year= s after I returned to the States to fully recover from that experience. While I was away, my Dad retired from the Navy and had moved our family b= ack to "home", which to him was Kansas City. Well, I didn=92t know anyone in= KC, but felt comfortable since most of my relatives are around here. I bumm= ed around for a couple years, worked as a car and motorcycle mechanic at a f= ew local shops. Then, enrolled in a small community college in 1974 thinkin= g that I wanted to get into either science or art, then transferred over to University of Missouri and graduated with a degree in chemistry. I spent 17 years in the pharmaceutical industry, started as a research chemist, then moved over into their international division monitoring clinical trials. I enjoyed that job a lot, even spent three years going = to night school to get an MBA. We merged with Dow Chemical in 1991, then we= re sold off to a German company (Hoerst) and the corporate culture died. Well, I was much too young to retire and too old to put up with a promisi= ng career that had been reduced to a "job", so I began planning for a transition. I had been doing stained glass for about 10 years then, so that was my first choice. I started working for two local builders around in 1991, and started a business in my basement called Midwest Hardwoods and Stained Glass. I w= as doing cabinets, entertainment centers, curios, anything in wood that I could also put some glass in. It was extremely hard because I was workin= g for the company during the day and moonlighting my own business at night. Well, in 1993 I left the company and started full time with my own busine= ss. In 1995, we moved out of my basement and into a retail shop where we are= at the present time and it was then that I renamed the business to Summit Stained Glass. I still do a lot of woodwork, but am always trying to figure out how to put stained glass in = it. I know I=92ve rambled, I won=92t apologize because I=92d personally like = to hear similar life stories about the rest of you. Let me just add a few more points ........ my wife of 18 years has certainly put up with the worst side of me, and always seems to bring out the best in me. And, And= ria is actually my niece, although I call her my daughter. My sister went through a divorce many years ago, then died from some ovarian cancer leaving two children. I took Andria, and her brother is living with anot= her sister of mine. So, Andria has been with us for about 7 years and is no= w 12 years old. One of my primary goals in life is to live to be 100! My wife says that among her goals is to live long enough to see me make it to 100! So, loo= ks like we have another 53 years to go. Hope you enjoyed it. Mike ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 20 00:37:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 23:41:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: "Teresa Ross" , Subject: Re: cutting straight line!!! Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 23:40:46 PDT Message-ID: Precedence: bulk [In the message entitled "cutting straight line!!!" on Jul 19, 22:04, "Teresa Ross" writes:] > Hi...I am a novice at this. I have written a couple of times and am very > grateful for the help received.I can't seem to master cutting a straight > line which isn't jagged. Grinding it out only seems to make it worse. I was > told to go light on the grinding...can't seem to get it, and I am ruining > lots of glass. Any tips...thanks in advance. Try holding the cutter with "control" to begin with. Don't move your wrist if possible and instead emphasize your whole arm moving with the cut...follow trhu with your body. What type of cutter are you using? I personally use a pistol type. I cannot seem to use a straight cutter very well. When grinding lay the piece flat and use both hands to hold the glass running smooth as you move the piece forward. Make sure you have a sharp bit and always make sure to use water. Hope this helps -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 20 00:51:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 23:52:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, tmr@oxford.net Subject: cutting straight line!!! Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 02:49:41, -0500 Message-ID: <199807200649.CAA18622@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>Hi...I am a novice at this. I have written a couple of times and am very grateful for the help received.I can't seem to master cutting a straight line which isn't jagged. Grinding it out only seems to make it worse. I was told to go light on the grinding...can't seem to get it, and I am ruining lots of glass. Any tips...thanks in advance. teresa<< Cutting a straight line in glass is not as easy as it would seem. The good part is that once you get the hang of it seems to happen for free. Most people cut straight lines by pulling the cutter against a straight edge such as an aluminum ruler that is 1/8" thick by 2" wide by X long. Just start very near the far end of the glass and pull the cutter along the straight edge. Be careful to hold the cutter wheel at a right angle to the glass and apply moderate pressure (just enough pressure so the cutter "talks" to you as it scribes the glass). Maintain a small amount of pressure against the straight edge to prevent the cutter from wandering. Strive to make the cut in one flowing motion while maintaining even pressure. It is good if the cutter can drop off the end of the glass onto a soft surface like wood or plastic. Complete the breakout immediately after cutting to prevent "healing" of the score and poor breaks. Another tool is a plastic right angle made for the purpose of cutting glass right angels such as in glass squares. These seem to do a slightly better job of slipping the cutter along the edge. Also remember there is an offset between the edge of the straight edge and the actual track of the wheel. For the Toyo cutter this is 3/32" I believe and so it makes a real difference in rather the cut piece will fit or not. I seem to have used a great many words to describe what will shortly become a simple task for you. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *US Navy retired, please pay your taxes promptly.* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 20 01:36:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 00:52:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: email.msn.com!bird_cage From: "Doug Parrott" To: "Teresa Ross" Subject: Re: cutting straight line!!! Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 00:51:00 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul19.17510.0> Precedence: bulk Teresa, Are you using a straight edge? Myself, I don't even attempt a straight line without using my straight edge. I have a 1/4 piece of plexiglass that is 1 1/2" by 18". I have been using the same straight edge for 20 years. With one hand I hold the straight edge firmly on the glass and the other hand I run the cutter right up against the straight edge. See how that works. If you are still having trouble, you may want to tap the glass before applying pressure. There is also a type of breaking pliers for cutting straight pieces. You're retailer should carry it. I don't remember what it is called. I use it ocassionally when I am cutting a long narrow piece. Cheryl ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 20 01:48:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 00:40:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hotmail.com!scottjf55 From: "scott floyd" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: RE:straight line Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 22:51:27 PDT Message-ID: <1998Jul20.55127.0> Precedence: bulk Having trouble cutting a straight line? Well I use a metal ruler with a cork bottom so it doesnt slip. You just put the ruler on the glass next to the line youv'e drawn. Then sight at the top of the ruler, then the bottom and make sure the cutter is on the line foil, inside the line for lead(if you using a sharpie pen). Your cutter will be guided right along the straight line by the ruler. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 20 02:08:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 01:08:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bright.net!joyce From: glasschic To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: cutting straight line!!! Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 04:07:20 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980720040719.006bd834@mail.bright.net> Precedence: bulk At 10:04 PM 7/19/98 -0700, Teresa Ross wrote: >Hi...I am a novice at this. I have written a couple of times and am very >grateful for the help received.I can't seem to master cutting a straight >line which isn't jagged. Grinding it out only seems to make it worse. I was >told to go light on the grinding...can't seem to get it, and I am ruining >lots of glass. Any tips...thanks in advance. There are devices to help you cut a straight line. Using a metal glass ruler with a cork backing that you slide your cutter against will help you make a straight score. Or use one of the many brands of strip cutters, or the Morton system. They all aid you in making a nice straight cut. However, once you make the cut and you go to grinding, I have a tip that I use with my students. I have them hold the piece of glass against a straight edge of some sort, so that they can see light through the spaces where the piece of glass doesn't meet the straight edge. They then mark with a Sharpie pen, the places that do meet the straight edge and know that those are the places to be gone over (lightly) with the grinder. As they grind, they should be making progress, so that less and less light shows through the crack in between the glass and the straight edge. When virtually no light shines through, then the piece of glass is deemed straight enough to go into the stained glass project. Garden of Glass Joyce Moran Ohio ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 20 07:19:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 06:05:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: cutting straight line!!! Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 06:04:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199807201304.GAA24670@baby.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk >Hi Teresa, Glad to see you have gotten lots of good advice. Try to practice on some clear window glass...it's pretty cheap and some places will give you it for free from the trash they throw out. Smiles, Cindy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 20 08:19:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 07:05:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: p085.aone.net.au!allcrafts From: Melanie Dunstan To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Non-Glass: Looking for Mike Peck Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:01:04 +0800 Message-ID: <1998Jul21.614.0> Organization: Allcrafts Goods & Services Precedence: bulk Gidday Y'all and apologies for doing this but the email addy I had for Mike Peck bounced and I need to contact him.... ::Waving:: hoy, Mike!! You there, mate? Please get in touch! -- Thanks!! Melanie Dunstan, in Perth, Australia ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 20 08:49:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 07:14:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: cutting straight line!!! Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:13:20 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul20.141320.0> Precedence: bulk Teresa Ross says: > I can't seem to master cutting a straight line which isn't > jagged. Get a Morton Portable Glass Shop. I did, and I've gotten spoiled in a hurry! (I could never keep a regular straight edge in place - didn't think to try a cork-backed one. Besides, I couldn't find one thick enough to use with my cutter.) Line up the glass, score it, and break it over the edge of your Morton Board. Minimal grinding required. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 20 09:09:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 07:14:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Summer time blues...back to glass, and weird tools Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:12:54 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul20.141254.0> Precedence: bulk Cindy (the resident poet and scourge of all things 8-legged) says: > Okay guys... where are you? > Not too many messages for the past 2 days. It has been slow... my guess is that unless they have a store to run on weekends, everyone with a scrap of sense in their head and a few bucks in their pocket has headed off to the beach, the mountains, the local pool, or even the air-conditioned comfort of the local library (OK, so maybe I'm Very Weird, but oh! the art books! and it's free - free is good when you're as broke as I am). My "summertime blues" are largely related to the state of the electricity around here. I live in a 40-year-old house with original wiring, and the local utility struggles to keep enough juice flowing. Of course it gets worse in weather like this, when everybody and their dog is running the a/c for all they're worth. The glass-related result is, after about noon I have a hell of a time trying to solder. Even with the iron turned almost all the way up, it will be hot enough for a while, then cool off and the solder will get "just barely sticky." I know it's the local juice, because the iron is fine up at Christie's. Pathologically Resourceful Weirdo and Hardware Junkie that I am, I'm thinking about investing in a power conditioner/uninterruptible power source, say a 200-watt one. It will be a hell of a lot cheaper than rewiring the house, and will let me keep working. (I'm generally not awake enough to solder in the morning.) What my enquiring mind wants to know is: has anyone tried this? Anyone have any thoughts on the idea? CCW "Tool time! More power!" Sparks (also getting ready to rig up a Water Pik to feed water to the drill bit on my grinder... one of these days I have to remember to pick up the tips when I'm in the drug store) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 20 09:19:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 07:37:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Teresa Ross Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: cutting straight line!!! Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:24:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul20.62423.0> References: <<199807200203.WAA00747@server1.oxford.net>> Precedence: bulk Teresa Ross wrote: > > Hi...I am a novice at this. I have written a couple of times and am very > grateful for the help received.I can't seem to master cutting a straight > line which isn't jagged. Grinding it out only seems to make it worse. I was > told to go light on the grinding...can't seem to get it, and I am ruining > lots of glass. Any tips...thanks in advance. > > teresa > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass mainly you want to work against a ruler, about 1/8" high. the idea is to push against the ruler and pull down on the cutter. the hard part is that the cutter will want to go on the ruler, and it won't give you the right pressure or angle to get a good break. the best way is to use a scoring board of some kind. morton or the other one (that i use). the ruler ends to shift when you use it. is you only have a ruler, the ruler needs to be smooth or have a cork back. a large triangle should work. the other way is to use a strip cutter. or do it by hand. the hand method won't be totally true, but it will break the way you want it. but you need a very steady hand and good hand-eye coordination. practice tracing things with a pen, that will help quite a bit, (trace letters, scrolling things, etc.) ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 20 11:56:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:29:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: cybersol.com!TWLARRY From: TWLARRY@cybersol.com (Nordhoff, Larry) To: Witchdoc3@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Summer time blues...back to glass, and weird tools Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:26:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul20.92631.0> References: <<1998Jul20.141254.0>> Organization: Trade Winds Precedence: bulk Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote: > > Cindy (the resident poet and scourge of all things 8-legged) says: > > > Okay guys... where are you? > > Not too many messages for the past 2 days. > > It has been slow... my guess is that unless they have a store to run on > weekends, everyone with a scrap of sense in their head and a few bucks in > their pocket has headed off to the beach, the mountains, the local pool, or > even the air-conditioned comfort of the local library (OK, so maybe I'm Very > Weird, but oh! the art books! and it's free - free is good when you're as > broke as I am). > > My "summertime blues" are largely related to the state of the electricity > around here. I live in a 40-year-old house with original wiring, and the local > utility struggles to keep enough juice flowing. Of course it gets worse in > weather like this, when everybody and their dog is running the a/c for all > they're worth. > > The glass-related result is, after about noon I have a hell of a time trying > to solder. Even with the iron turned almost all the way up, it will be hot > enough for a while, then cool off and the solder will get "just barely > sticky." I know it's the local juice, because the iron is fine up at > Christie's. > > Pathologically Resourceful Weirdo and Hardware Junkie that I am, I'm thinking > about investing in a power conditioner/uninterruptible power source, say a > 200-watt one. It will be a hell of a lot cheaper than rewiring the house, and > will let me keep working. (I'm generally not awake enough to solder in the > morning.) > > What my enquiring mind wants to know is: has anyone tried this? Anyone have > any thoughts on the idea? > > CCW "Tool time! More power!" Sparks > > (also getting ready to rig up a Water Pik to feed water to the drill bit on my > grinder... one of these days I have to remember to pick up the tips when I'm > in the drug store) > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass Hi Cindy, A fourty year old house or one built in the 50's should have adequate wireing. Have you thought of going to 200 amp service. This is an option that will give you more power for very little cash outlay. You may only need a seperate line to your fuse box for that matter. When we bought our house we had to rewire it. It was built around 1932 and had single wire mounted on porcline knobs. There was only 40 amp service. There were no outlets in the house and every time the pump kicked in the lights would dim. We had 100 amp service put in after rewiring. We also have a store that we had upgraded to 200 amp service. Hope this gives you some other options to explore. T W LARRY (T W stands for Trade Winds our store name.) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 20 14:09:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:32:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: straight lines Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 01:40:36 -0600 Message-ID: <1998Jul19.194036.0> Precedence: bulk I grind my straight lines on a 6" standard grid disk on the Diamond Max. It requires a steady hand...I premark with a permanent marker the plumb line, so I can focus. I cannot eye-ball a straightline or a right angle. Some advise that was given to me when scoring a long straight line, once you have everything in place (the straight edge, etc.) then remember it is not the amount of force you put on a score, but the smoothness and speed that will give you a good break. So I say to myself "charge!" right before scoring. Then I keep that cutter moving smoothly and quickly...and I don't worry about how hard I am pressing. (When I was beginning, I think I used to try to engrave my break line with muscle.. but it has very little to do with force.) The very first project I did, was a geometric one. It had nothing but straight lines in it. It was not a great success, but after completing a few more projects, I could now attack the same project and I am confident that my lines would be straighter. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 20 14:37:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:44:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: webtv.net!Beadnik2 From: Beadnik2@webtv.net (Joan) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Water Pik on Grinder??? Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:41:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1998Jul20.114134.0> Precedence: bulk Witchdoc3@aol.com () wrote: >(also getting ready to rig up a Water Pik to feed >water to the drill bit on my grinder... Hmmmm... this sounds very interesting. The "automatic" water feed on my grinder never works to my satisfaction and the sponge is frustrating. Would you be willing to share how you plan to rig this up? Would this work for the grinding bits as well? Thanks!!! Joan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 20 18:16:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:47:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: cutting straight line!!! Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 00:43:49 +0000 Message-ID: <199807202347.AAA06883@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Dear Teresa, Practice, practice, practice!!!!! It's quite true that it isn't the pressure which is important, but smoothness and speed (CHARGE! - someone said... And I had to smile, because there is a certain amount of truth in that) Practice on "window glass" someone else said. That's fine too if you can get scraps for nothing. The best glass to practice on (at least here in UK) is glass made for green-houses; the "fine" name is "horticultural glass". "Window" glass is between 4-6 mm thick, as a rule, whereas greenh.... sorry... "horticultural glass" is 3 mm thick. I.e. the thickness (as a rule) of the coloured glass you will eventually cut anyway). It simulates much better the cutting and breaking-out qualities of coloured glass and is therefore ideal to practice on. Even OLD greenh... "horticultural glass" is useful. It tends to be more brittle, sometimes a little bit more "powdery" than new glass, but that too is a good learning experience since you will encounter the many different ways that different coloured glass behaves. In my classes I collect sheets and sheets of this glass, both old and new and literally "dish it out" to my students to experiment with at home. When I myself have created a particular difficult cut for myself, I always practice and perfect my technique for that particular piece on a bit of greenhouse glass until I am happy. I have never got on with the "ruler-technique". If I am tired and "bleary-eyed", I will invariably resort to a strip-cutter rather than a ruler. On the whole though, I cut the "Straight Lines" free-hand... Another trick in cutting straight lines (....and we have been arguing this point before) is to cut away from you, rather than towards you. You have better control that way and your body doesn't get in the way and upset your balance. UK Hartley-Woood Glass, by the way - is shortly to be "resurrected". About 4 of the original Hartley-Wood experts have joined the new people that bought out the Company and rumour has it that the glorious quality of Hartley-Wood Glass will not be allowed to die. But - as with many buy-outs - the name might change..... Watching the development most closely..... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK At 10:04 PM 7/19/98 -0700, Teresa Ross wrote: >Hi...I am a novice at this. I have written a couple of times and am very >grateful for the help received.I can't seem to master cutting a straight >line which isn't jagged. Grinding it out only seems to make it worse. I was >told to go light on the grinding...can't seem to get it, and I am ruining >lots of glass. Any tips...thanks in advance. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 20 18:41:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:48:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Summer time blues...back to glass, and weird tools Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 00:43:50 +0000 Message-ID: <199807202347.AAA06880@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Oh YES!!!! I distinctly remember telling Bunginians, how I used to tip-toe down my garden in bare feet last summer in the moonlight, sitting down in the garden and do my soldering there in the early hours of the morning, dressed in NOTHING. It was simply too hot during the day to work and my Viking blood was/is not up to it... It gave a whole NEW meaning to dropping a blob of melting solder.... No, I didn't catch German Measles on my tummy, only hot solder!!! The neighbours were asleep anyway and my garden IS really very private. ..... ;-> I live in a cottage that is about 200 years old (that's at least when the first records of it have been found). The wiring occasionally appears to be just as old. My kiln used to blow the whole village, but a soldering iron or two seem to work OK. Have just been reading new tourist blurb about Sweden, where visitors to a Swedish home STILL today are reminded to take their shoes off, when entering a Swedish home. This really warmed my soul and I thought of Daniel, my "bare-foot fellow". Am still a bit disorientated , even if now back in UK, and am working my way through the many lovely and wonderful messages one by one. Hot and warm wishes - 'n keep soldering.... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK (who can't QUITE keep up the sulk anymore...) "Sparks" wrote in response to Cindy: > Pathologically Resourceful Weirdo and Hardware Junkie that I am, I'm thinking > about investing in a power conditioner/uninterruptible power source, say a > 200-watt one. It will be a hell of a lot cheaper than rewiring the house, and > will let me keep working. (I'm generally not awake enough to solder in the > morning.) > > What my enquiring mind wants to know is: has anyone tried this? Anyone have > any thoughts on the idea? > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 20 19:21:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 18:05:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mpx.com.au!harlquin From: "Gerard" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: re: cutting straight line!!! Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 23:27:23 +1000 Message-ID: <1998Jul21.92723.0> Precedence: bulk hi Teresa my bit of advice for all it's worth is this: get a large piece of window glass (maybe recycled) and a good cutter and practice cutting... more and more and more again. i think it's fair to say we all had some difficulty cutting when we started, but in glass as in any other craft, practice makes perfect+ACE- (almost) Harlequin at http://surf.to/harlquin Harlequin Leadlight other pages http://www.geocities.com/PicketFence/3530/index.html http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/ondaderthad/index.html Join the leadlight webring http://www.geocities.com/PicketFence/3530/webring.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 20 19:42:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 17:40:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------03B53BFD491334BDB5AD6B17" Subject: Re:Oh what a nightmare-update Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 17:38:29 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul20.103829.0> Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------03B53BFD491334BDB5AD6B17 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone! Well, well for those of you wondering how my beach escapades are going, and remember this post of awhile back, here goes. Went down to the beach this weekend, had a wonderful time. I was with 2 hormonal 12 years olds (my daughter and her friend). This time I brought a stained glass bird bath/table, outdoor stained glass lights, beautiful cedar planters to put into the beach shop. My daughter and her friend make braided jewelry, like the kids wear today. They brought their products with a blue pine display made by my husband again. Our first one is still in the shop housing my stones.. I walked into the shop, where I noticed my display, which I might add is looking great in that shop thank you very much. Any way, noticed right off the bat that 3 of my stones were priced down, without my o.k. One was priced at $21.99. The initial shock of that price on that stone (it has bevels incorporated into the design), almost put me into cardiac arrest. "My friend" then proceeds to tell me that 3 customers have come into the shop and stated that if only I had stones in such and such colors then of course they would buy them. Well she said that right after I noticed the price on my stones. Now at this point I'm ready to kill this woman, yes I will admit, maim and hurt were my goal at the time. She then says "well I priced them down to see if we would sell more". My thoughts at the time (#@(*&^%$)! Now for customers that call me personally or e-mail me on the internet, you bet, I bend over backwards for them and of course offer any color they want. She explained to me that her thinking on the price was due to the fact that the area had a small craft show a couple weeks back. Now a lady at the craft show was selling her stones for $22.00 each. First of all the lady at the craft show is on her own, she is not charging herself a commission price I tell my friend. Second, I'm not that lady. I couldn't say anymore than that at this point in the game, I was a tad unnerved. Don't get me wrong bungians, I love feedback, criticism etc. This is what I believe makes us successful, customer comments about my products I value. Currently I have about 9 different colors in her shop, 25 stones that all have different colored glass. There is a great selection there. I can think of 10 million different colors I could put down there too. Ended up bringing 8 stones home, it was 9 but one got stolen out of the truck when we stopped at a gift shop, good grief, can you imagine lugging a stolen stepping stone around town! I know, should have kept an eye on them, but was more interested in keeping my eye on my hormonal girls at the time. The number of items I have in her shop I'm comfortable with. and I do like the advertising. I believe I made it clear to her price changing is not a good idea, and I'm putting that mildly. Now, my daughter and her friend have a beautiful display in blue pine. The agreement my friend made with the girls was to do commission at 10%. The girls unload their products which I might add are, highly professional looking the type of jewelry kids today "die over". After we have unloaded all of our products and get back in the truck my daughter proceeds to tell me that my friend is charging them 25% in commission, still very low yes, but the girls priced all of their products at the 10% commission rate. So they just lost 15% walking into the shop. Now for a first business experience I wanted the girls to have a good one and learn some things. Yes this is a positive learning experience for them I agree. And they have definitely learned a good business lesson here. Did I go back into the shop and confront my friend with the commission issue? No. I forced myself to remember that I am respectful, I am a lady and I will not kill in daylight hours. I'm being very patient with her as a new business owner. I guess my one comment to make to people who are considering consignment would be this. Ask the business owner questions on their business experience, practices, goals etc. Be as informed as you can be going into the shop. Keep in contact with the business owner and check on your products. And trust your instincts. Now if you have all made it through to the end of this very long post. Then I can't wait to hear your comments, I know they will always be helpful and honest. To Cheryl and Shirley, ( fellow bungians), I thank you again for your personal help on this matter and the good advice. Sincerely, Pam --------------03B53BFD491334BDB5AD6B17 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Pamela Burns-Tappan Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Pamela Burns-Tappan n: Burns-Tappan;Pamela org: Moswood Mountain Limited adr: http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html;;http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html;;;;USA email;internet: ptap@pacifier.com title: President x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------03B53BFD491334BDB5AD6B17-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 20 19:53:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 18:14:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Bio: Peggy Johnsen Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 02:10:02 +0000 Message-ID: <199807210113.CAA14385@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk My Dear Petal Peggy; As I told you over the telephone, and... will confirm in Bungi...... Your Bio is a total disgrace!!!! YOU can do better than that....! Listen Folks! This is a person who has absorbed an astonishing amount of know-how, knowledge and history about stained glass ; - as well as about human nature, compassion and.... Lifefulness! I have had the wonderful privelege of living with her - side-by-side for almost 3 weeks. My dining-room table has wonderful horsehoe nail marks that makes me smille every time I see them.... We got rather carried away that night..... She is a complete Master of "under-statement"!!! Everyone in UK that she met, were totally under her spell - everyone remembers "Peggy"; everyone wants to have news of her...... She reads everything in Bungi, yet she speaks out quite seldom. WHEN she does, I sit up and listen. We have very loseley worked on a teaching curriculum together. My rather forced visit to Sweden, has rather "blown" the plans my heart so much desired to do..... to visit USA this autumn. Peggy will be my high-point and focal point for a visit to USA. Jeez, I wish I could run a motorbike the way she did.... In France, Peggy had an argument with a round-about, tripped and fell somewhat badly. I think there were only TWO people who ever ever knew about it - Kathe and myself. We nursed her, bandaged her and tried to make her comfortable. She was most insistant that nobody else should know,,,, Total and utter Sunshine came out of her and from her...... Everyone soaked it up and loved her. ,.,.and Toby??? He fell in Love - for the First Real Time In His Life...... Little Chap - he gave his ALL!!! He preened, he pranced, he paraded a bout....Who am I to argue with HIM???? Peggy, you can do better than this 6=-liner for a Bio!"!!! "Disgusted from England" aka Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK P.S. Patrick!!! what a poor psychologist you are..... Come On!! Dig a bit!!! ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 20 20:53:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 19:25:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: having a Bad Patina Day Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:20:40 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul21.22040.0> Precedence: bulk A weird thing happened this afternoon when I went to put copper patina on a couple of finished pieces. Freshly soldered, washed (with ordinary liquid dishwashing soap - Sunlight, I think), thoroughly rinsed & dried, and I was using a new bottle of patina (only used once before, a couple of weeks ago, and worked fine then) and a clean cotton rag... and the result was a patchy, scuzzy, skanky, uneven mix of not-too-bright copper and corrosion that took a hell of a lot of scrubbing with a toothbrush and then more scrubbing with a lot of Kem-O-Pro to get looking even marginal. Anybody have any idea why it did that? Suggestions on cleaning it up? Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 20 23:40:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:02:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: having a Bad Patina Day Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:01:40 -0700 Message-ID: <199807210501.WAA03513@norm.island.net> Precedence: bulk Hi Sparks What about removing it with steel wool? I was using black patina today on something I'd cleaned the same way, but left sitting for a day first. It didn't take evenly. Seems a bit of a film had formed over the cleaned lead...once I'd cleaned off the splotchy patina with the extra fine steel wool and reapplied it took fine. Cleaned the other pieces with steel wool first and the patina took just fine then. Good luck Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 01:49:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 00:59:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Hartley Wood (was Re: cutting straight line) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:56:42 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980721085642.007c4400@mailhost.stainedglass.co.uk> References: <<199807202347.AAA06883@saturn.nildram.co.uk>> Precedence: bulk At 00:43 21/07/98 +0000, EliSabeth wrote: >UK Hartley-Woood Glass, by the way - is shortly to be "resurrected". >About 4 of the original Hartley-Wood experts have joined the new >people that bought out the Company and rumour has it that the >glorious quality of Hartley-Wood Glass will not be allowed to die. >But - as with many buy-outs - the name might change..... >Watching the development most closely..... That would be terrific if they were to carry on making the same quality of glass that the original company did. We were disappointed in HW's last years with the stuff they were shipping out - much paler glass on the whole, without the vibrancy of much of the old glass - and so badly scratched too :-( We heard that the old site is going for housing development, so wonder if the new company will be sited at the new glass centre in Sunderland which I think is now open. Have you had the chance to visit it? We keep promising ourselves a trip one day but never seem to have the time. By the way, did your Australian students finish their 6 foot crocodile? Elizabeth Law Bournemouth Stained Glass htp://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 02:50:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 01:35:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hotmail.com!scottjf55 From: "scott floyd" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: RE: yucky patina problem Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:31:21 PDT Message-ID: <1998Jul21.43121.0> Precedence: bulk I had that happen with black patina and I found out that it was from the solder I was using. I guess the first thing I would do since it happened to me once, is try and remember which solder I was using....could have been some old stuff, or something else all together. I am sure we'll get to the bottom of this!!! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 06:29:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 05:37:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE: yucky patina problem Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:30:53 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul21.123053.0> Precedence: bulk scott floyd said: > I had that happen with black patina and I found out that > it was from the solder I was using. I guess the first thing > I would do since it happened to me once, is try and > remember which solder I was using [...] "Good old reliable" Fry 60/40, like always... Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 06:58:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 05:51:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ezl.com!stepsue From: Sue Prullage To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: re-oh whata nightmare Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 07:44:10 -0600 Message-ID: <1998Jul21.14410.0> Precedence: bulk Pam, you're experience with this shop has not been good. I would not tolerate anyone pricing my glass without my permission. Do you pay 10% commission? If so then I would confront this woman and demand that your girls get 10% also. Even better I would pull out of the shop completely. She doesn't sound trustworthy. There is my 2 cents worth. Sue ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 07:17:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 05:56:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ezl.com!stepsue From: Sue Prullage To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: friendship vs glass Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 07:49:45 -0600 Message-ID: <1998Jul21.14945.0> Precedence: bulk I need alittle advise. I know this sounds silly, but I have a chance to explore teaching and selling products. This sounds great right. Well I am very good friends with the owner of the only glass shop in the area. She makes comments about other shops putting glass in there window and how awful she thinks that is and how they should stay out of her business. A person approached me about teaching classes at his business. I would love to do this, but I know my friend will have a fit. Do I try and incorporate her shop into my class, for example, send everyone to her shop for glass etc or do I just set it up and say its a free country. Do you see my problem. If I set it up myself then I can profit from selling materials on my own. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Sue ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 07:31:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 06:01:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bad Patina Day Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 19:09:46 -0600 Message-ID: <1998Jul20.13946.0> Precedence: bulk I have had that problem this summer too, with copper. I thought at the time, I did not wash the flux off well. I also used dish liquid. Some one told me to use "Simple Green" which is a cleaning liquid on my soldering. I haven't bought any, but I have paid better attention to washing my soldering, and it hasn't recurred. I am still not convinced what caused it, and how to avoid it? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 07:35:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 06:10:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: 7cities.net!gatehous From: "BRIDE' WEBB" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Copper Patina finishes. Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 01:03:56 -0600 Message-ID: <199807211214.HAA06853@ici-208-025-108-234.7cities.net> Precedence: bulk I've been using more copper patina lately, but though the finishing compound buffs up and shines the copper patina beautifully, once it is exposed to direct sunlight and I suppose the heat I have several pieces change to almost a brass looking finish. Does anyone know of a way to prevent this from happening? My black and silver finishes haven't changed at all, only the copper. Any input on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Bride' e-mail.....gatehous@7cities.net ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 08:05:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 06:47:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: tmr@oxford.net Subject: Re: cutting straight line!!! Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 01:45:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul20.214548.0> References: <> Precedence: bulk Teresa, There is a brief tutorial on straight line cutting using a straight edge at our website that may offer a point or two that haven't been covered yet....Anyway, it couldn't hurt! It is the glassworking tip from june of 96'. Start at http://www.dodgestudio.com and follow the links to glassworkers tips. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com On Sun, 19 Jul 1998 23:40:46 PDT gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) writes: >[In the message entitled "cutting straight line!!!" on Jul 19, 22:04, >"Teresa Ross" writes:] >> Hi...I am a novice at this. I have written a couple of times and am >very >> grateful for the help received.I can't seem to master cutting a >straight >> line which isn't jagged. Grinding it out only seems to make it >worse. I was >> told to go light on the grinding...can't seem to get it, and I am >ruining >> lots of glass. Any tips...thanks in advance. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 09:01:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 07:46:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: friendship vs glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:52:45 +0000 Message-ID: <199807211628.MAA14489@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > am very good friends with the owner of the only glass shop in the area. > She makes comments about other shops putting glass in there window and > how awful she thinks that is and how they should stay out of her > business. An often-heard complaint in the stained glass world ... and probably in other areas, too. But one of the "givens" in business (and your friend *is in business) is that competition's healthy ... and inevitable. She should remember that when she opened her shop that she did so at a time when other stained glass outlets existed. I'm sure they resented her new shop as much as she resents newer ones that open, but she should see it as opportunity rather than mere competition. Okay, those other glass shops might not have been right in your area, but they might have considered the area "part" of their "domain," their service area. The more glass and glass outlets there are, the more the consciousness of the public is raised and the more glass is appreciated. Your friend should think about how to work together with others who have seen how beautiful and marketable glass can be rather than resent their presence. As for your activities vis-a-vis your friend's, you have to do what feels right to you. You wouldn't let her decide for you what to wear, who to marry, how many kids to have any more than you'd let her decide how to run your own business. Is this a great country, or what? Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 09:21:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 07:47:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: re-oh whata nightmare Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:52:45 +0000 Message-ID: <199807211628.MAA14493@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > completely. She doesn't sound trustworthy. There is my 2 cents worth. And here's mine. She might be trustworthy, but it does sound like she's feeling her way into how the local customers react to pricing and color selection. I think you'd be perfectly within your rights to say, "as long as my income from the sale isn't affected, you can price my work however you like." In other words, if the work is discounted, the discount comes out of her end, unless she's made prior arrangements with you. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 09:38:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 07:47:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re:Oh what a nightmare-update Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:22:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199807211422.KAA02663@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk Hi Pam, I was wondering what type of contract you have with this store. Hopefully it is one that says how much you actually want for each piece you have consigned. And not one that says a percentage. Secondly, not to be flip and nothing against you daughter and her friend, but I really don't know what kind of professionalism you can expect from someone who sells work made by twelve year olds no matter if they are professional looking or not. Apparently this is more of a crafty store than a craft gallery. And why if this woman has given you so much grief would you ever subject your daughter and her friend to her? And then she charges them more commission than they agreed? Looks to me like your just getting in deeper. And just prolonging your own aggravation. my best, pj >Hi everyone! > >Well, well for those of you wondering how my beach escapades are going, >and remember this post of awhile back, here goes. > >Went down to the beach this weekend, had a wonderful time. I was with 2 >hormonal 12 years olds (my daughter and her friend). This time I brought >a stained glass bird bath/table, outdoor stained glass lights, beautiful >cedar planters to put into the beach shop. My daughter and her friend >make braided jewelry, like the kids wear today. They brought their >products with a blue pine display made by my husband again. Our first >one is still in the shop housing my stones.. > >I walked into the shop, where I noticed my display, which I might add is >looking great in that shop thank you very much. Any way, noticed right >off the bat that 3 of my stones were priced down, without my o.k. One >was priced at $21.99. The initial shock of that price on that stone (it >has bevels incorporated into the design), almost put me into cardiac >arrest. "My friend" then proceeds to tell me that 3 customers have come >into the shop and stated that if only I had stones in such and such >colors then of course they would buy them. > >Well she said that right after I noticed the price on my stones. Now at >this point I'm ready to kill this woman, yes I will admit, maim and hurt >were my goal at the time. She then says "well I priced them down to see >if we would sell more". My thoughts at the time (#@(*&^%$)! > >Now for customers that call me personally or e-mail me on the internet, >you bet, I bend over backwards for them and of course offer any color >they want. > >She explained to me that her thinking on the price was due to the fact >that the area had a small craft show a couple weeks back. Now a lady at >the craft show was selling her stones for $22.00 each. First of all the >lady at the craft show is on her own, she is not charging herself a >commission price I tell my friend. Second, I'm not that lady. I couldn't >say anymore than that at this point in the game, I was a tad unnerved. > >Don't get me wrong bungians, I love feedback, criticism etc. This is >what I believe makes us successful, customer comments about my products >I value. Currently I have about 9 different colors in her shop, 25 >stones that all have different colored glass. There is a great selection >there. I can think of 10 million different colors I could put down there >too. Ended up bringing 8 stones home, it was 9 but one got stolen out of >the truck when we stopped at a gift shop, good grief, can you imagine >lugging a stolen stepping stone around town! I know, should have kept an >eye on them, but was more interested in keeping my eye on my hormonal >girls at the time. > >The number of items I have in her shop I'm comfortable with. and I do >like the advertising. I believe I made it clear to her price changing is >not a good idea, and I'm putting that mildly. > > >Now, my daughter and her friend have a beautiful display in blue pine. >The agreement my friend made with the girls was to do commission at 10%. >The girls unload their products which I might add are, highly >professional looking the type of jewelry kids today "die over". After we >have unloaded all of our products and get back in the truck my daughter >proceeds to tell me that my friend is charging them 25% in commission, >still very low yes, but the girls priced all of their products at the >10% commission rate. So they just lost 15% walking into the shop. > >Now for a first business experience I wanted the girls to have a good >one and learn some things. Yes this is a positive learning experience >for them I agree. And they have definitely learned a good business >lesson here. Did I go back into the shop and confront my friend with the >commission issue? No. I forced myself to remember that I am respectful, >I am a lady and I will not kill in daylight hours. > >I'm being very patient with her as a new business owner. I guess my one >comment to make to people who are considering consignment would be this. > >Ask the business owner questions on their business experience, >practices, goals etc. Be as informed as you can be going into the shop. >Keep in contact with the business owner and check on your products. And >trust your instincts. > >Now if you have all made it through to the end of this very long post. >Then I can't wait to hear your comments, I know they will always be >helpful and honest. > >To Cheryl and Shirley, ( fellow bungians), I thank you again for your >personal help on this matter and the good advice. > >Sincerely, > >Pam > >--------------03B53BFD491334BDB5AD6B17 >Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Content-Description: Card for Pamela Burns-Tappan >Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" > >begin: vcard >fn: Pamela Burns-Tappan >n: Burns-Tappan;Pamela >org: Moswood Mountain Limited >adr: http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html;;http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/arti sts.html;;;;USA >email;internet: ptap@pacifier.com >title: President >x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 >x-mozilla-html: FALSE >version: 2.1 >end: vcard > > >--------------03B53BFD491334BDB5AD6B17-- > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 09:41:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 07:53:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: friendship vs glass Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:51:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199807211451.KAA04083@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk Well here is "alittle" advise.............if you want to teach this class ............Do it!!!!! If your "friend" does not support you.............Look for another friend. Here is the kid gloves version............. Tell your friend about this venture. Make her as excited about it as your are. If she is a true friend she will help you in anyway she can. Ask her advice on everything. And be up front. Tell her you are going to sell supplies to students. That way she can never say your weren't honest with her. And tell her that competition is good for the soul. Apparently she doesn't think it is. my best, pj (who thinks the word friend is used to loosely in this world.) >I need alittle advise. I know this sounds silly, but I have a chance to >explore teaching and selling products. This sounds great right. Well I >am very good friends with the owner of the only glass shop in the area. >She makes comments about other shops putting glass in there window and >how awful she thinks that is and how they should stay out of her >business. A person approached me about teaching classes at his >business. I would love to do this, but I know my friend will have a >fit. Do I try and incorporate her shop into my class, for example, send >everyone to her shop for glass etc or do I just set it up and say its a >free country. Do you see my problem. If I set it up myself then I can >profit from selling materials on my own. Any suggestions would be >appreciated. >Sue >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 09:58:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 07:56:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Witchdoc3@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: having a Bad Patina Day Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:53:52 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul21.65352.0> References: <<1998Jul21.22040.0>> Precedence: bulk Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote: > > A weird thing happened this afternoon when I went to put copper patina on a > couple of finished pieces. Freshly soldered, washed (with ordinary liquid > dishwashing soap - Sunlight, I think), thoroughly rinsed & dried, and I was > using a new bottle of patina (only used once before, a couple of weeks ago, > and worked fine then) and a clean cotton rag... and the result was a patchy, > scuzzy, skanky, uneven mix of not-too-bright copper and corrosion that took a > hell of a lot of scrubbing with a toothbrush and then more scrubbing with a > lot of Kem-O-Pro to get looking even marginal. > > Anybody have any idea why it did that? Suggestions on cleaning it up? > > Sparks > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass eliminating the cleaning technique. i would point out the solder, the tip (clean), or the flux. did you by any chance use flux remover (that stuff is impossible to remove and can cause this. did you dip in the the patina bottle the last time? if so that's a no-no. that will contaminate the bottle, and pretty much ruin it, which can also make out like you described. did you shake the bottle before you used it? sometimes it can settle. inland (the older ones anyway), tend to do this. novacan, as far as i know, does'nt settle. but i shake it anyway. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 10:01:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:01:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!SusieHUs From: To: ptap@pacifier.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Oh what a nightmare-update Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:58:26 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul21.145826.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Pam, Well, for starters, I'd like to commend you for not wringing her neck like a scrawny chicken when you saw the mark down! I'm not sure I could have kept my composure as completely as you did considering the sheer number of stupid things this woman said to you. It also seemed very smart to pull your other stones out of there before she gives them away as door prizes to idiotic tourists who want everything to match their couch! As for the hormonal 12 year olds (I have one myself!), I'll bet they're just thrilled to have a place where they can sell their wares and don't care much about the 25%, do they? I know mine wouldn't and she's also really, really good at making the hemp and bead jewelry. I would bring it up with your friend though. How are these girls going to learn that your word means something if their first business venture starts out this way? Maybe there's another store that would like their attractive display and they could make their point by going elsewhere if she doesn't honor her word. All the way around here, she sounds like bad news with whom to be doing business. Maybe she's good as a friend, but you've given her a chance and I'd be very leary of doing further business with her. It may look good in her store but isn't there another place where they'd look just as good and you wouldn't have to worry about what she was doing with your work? Just my opinion, Susie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 10:08:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:04:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Norman & Claudette Jaramillo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Bad Patina Day Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 11:00:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul21.7011.0> References: <<1998Jul20.13946.0>> Precedence: bulk Norman & Claudette Jaramillo wrote: > > I have had that problem this summer too, with copper. I thought at the > time, I did not wash the flux off well. I also used dish liquid. Some one > told me to use "Simple Green" which is a cleaning liquid on my soldering. I > haven't bought any, but I have paid better attention to washing my > soldering, and it hasn't recurred. I am still not convinced what caused > it, and how to avoid it? > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i probably would'nt use simple green. i never used it in that way, but through my experiences it does'nt totally leave the surface, and will probably attack the patina. use the baking soda - joy mixture, just a drop or two is needed. scrub it in. it could be hard water, that may not let the soap to completly wash off. oh yeah, make sure the soap is the clear kind, not the solid kind. the solid kind almost always has some kind of hand lotion in it. and will most likely stick to your solder. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 10:17:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:04:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: BRIDE' WEBB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Copper Patina finishes. Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 11:02:50 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul21.7250.0> References: <<199807211214.HAA06853@ici-208-025-108-234.7cities.net>> Precedence: bulk BRIDE' WEBB wrote: > > I've been using more copper patina lately, but though the finishing > compound buffs up and shines the copper patina beautifully, once it is > exposed to direct sunlight and I suppose the heat I have several pieces > change to almost a brass looking finish. Does anyone know of a way to > prevent this from happening? My black and silver finishes haven't changed > at all, only the copper. Any input on this would be greatly appreciated. > Thanks, Bride' e-mail.....gatehous@7cities.net > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass copper always changes, it depends on the make of the patina. novacan - turns from shiny penny copper, to dull copper, to brown, to black. jax - is very difficult to put on. but once it's copper, it stay looking like new for a very long time. i have a piece that i made about 6 years ago, and the copper is still pretty shiny. i don't know how the other patinaes look after a while. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 10:37:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:48:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re:Oh what a nightmare-update Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:46:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199807211546.IAA15974@baby.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk > >>Hi Pam, >I'd be very upset also. >Seems this woman has alot to learn, but it shouldn't be at your expense. >Marking down items without your okay doesn't make it in my books! >Infact I don't think your items have been in there long enough yet to be marking down. >Which I would think about... >Usually if something doesn't sell I'll remove, but not mark down. On a few ocassions I have marked down, but that's rare. (my stuff is in a gallery here and mark downs don't look good, chuckle) >I had a piece in there...native raven window hanger in smoked window glass etched...thought would never sell (don't know why really as I have one at home and looks appealling) anyhow it did sell finially after what I think could have been a year. >Usually I'll get antsy after 6 months maybe 9, but am always told to slow down and wait longer before pulling a piece. >The drift here is additude, and I think this woman's additude stinks. >Now you know your work is good!!! Heck their stealing it out of your car!! >And from the sounds of it 22 bucks is way too low. >Watch your stuff with this woman. She shouldn't be calling the shots on your work. >My heart goes to you, lady!! >Smiles, Cindy > > > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 10:39:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:11:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: gjr From: gjr@bungi.com (Glenna Rand) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Amsterdam Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:09:18 PDT Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Hi, Planning to get to Amsterdam sometime in the middle of August. My husband will be going on business and I am definately not missing it! Any of you folks living there? Anywhere in particular I should visit? -- Glenna Rand gjr@bungi.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 10:56:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:36:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: cybersol.com!TWLARRY From: TWLARRY@cybersol.com (Nordhoff, Larry) To: Sue Prullage Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: friendship vs glass Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:34:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul21.83441.0> References: <<1998Jul21.14945.0>> Organization: Trade Winds Precedence: bulk Sue Prullage wrote: > > I need alittle advise. I know this sounds silly, but I have a chance to > explore teaching and selling products. This sounds great right. Well I > am very good friends with the owner of the only glass shop in the area. > She makes comments about other shops putting glass in there window and > how awful she thinks that is and how they should stay out of her > business. A person approached me about teaching classes at his > business. I would love to do this, but I know my friend will have a > fit. Do I try and incorporate her shop into my class, for example, send > everyone to her shop for glass etc or do I just set it up and say its a > free country. Do you see my problem. If I set it up myself then I can > profit from selling materials on my own. Any suggestions would be > appreciated. > Sue > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass Hi Sue, I think you should promote yourself by teaching the class and selling materials too. If want to mention that your friend has some things that you do not offer this would be a good way to smooth ruffeled feathers. Competition is what this country is built on. It sounds like your friend needs to learn this. She should not worry about what other shops offer, if her prices are fair and service is good people will continue to trade with her. I have a bead shop in combination with antiques. I often send people to a shop 20 miles away because I know she has colector beads that I don't have. I haven't lost a coustomer yet and they thank me for sending them to the other shop. I have even gotten calls from the other shop thanking me for sending someone their way. When you go to a show many people offer the same products. Display is what draw people to your booth. Once they are in your booth personality and price become a factor. Good luck with your classes. TW LARRY ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 10:58:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:48:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: YOUR WORK! Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:48:51 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul21.24851.0> Precedence: bulk your work, you set the price...........un-acceptable.......move it! If I relied on pricing my work with to compete with the crap from the 3 and 4 world countries....I would clear less than $.02 per hour. SET YOUR PRICE....if you are too high, do it better, faster or find another item to produce. A store that has empty shelves or no suppliers soon becomes a McDonalds....ok,though, have had stock in MCD for years! Working with "friends" who do not have a clue is a recipe for disaster.....Who do you think would be the last person to get paid (if at all) if finances become tight. Surely a "friend" would understand! Enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 11:00:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:20:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Water Pik on Grinder??? Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 13:19:28 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul21.171928.0> Precedence: bulk I bet if you set up the grinder and water pik on a foot pedal you could get both to come on at the same time. deb In a message dated 98-07-20 17:44:05 EDT, you write: > >(also getting ready to rig up a Water Pik to feed > >water to the drill bit on my grinder... > > Hmmmm... this sounds very interesting. The "automatic" water feed on my > grinder never works to my satisfaction and the sponge is frustrating. > Would you be willing to share how you plan to rig this up? Would this > work for the grinding bits as well? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 11:37:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:52:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Oh what a nightmare-update Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 13:57:29 +0000 Message-ID: <199807211933.PAA24941@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > friend though. How are these girls going to learn that your word means > something if their first business venture starts out this way? Seems to me they just learned a very important lesson: get it in writing, especially where friends/family are concerned. That's being businesslike. They also learned skepticism pays. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 12:11:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 11:27:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel Abedi" To: "Sue Prullage" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: friendship vs glass Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 02:16:22 +0800 Message-ID: <1998Jul22.101622.0> Precedence: bulk Try to explain your friend the merit of healthy competition. Anyway Sue, one can't stop progress for fear of offending some, the morne. Look at it from another view, if you are going to teach, then your are creating your own customers, you are not stealing any of your friend's. In the course of time it may happen that some of her regulars may come to you, but then it may also happen that some of yours may go to her. It is a delicate issue, certainly, but I would say go for it. The more you earn, the more you will be able to spend on your art, with more money you will be able to experiment with stained glass and that would be good to the whole of Stained Glass community. That is opinion. I look forward to hear what you have decided in the nd. Just Started Home Page: Visit if you have nothing else to do. But docome back, things certainly will change. Planning on adding photos of myself, studio and some works. http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Atrium/2543/ Shakeel Abedi 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Johor Malaysia Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 shakeel@tm.net.my -----Original Message----- From: Sue Prullage To: glass@bungi.com Date: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 10:35 PM Subject: friendship vs glass >I need alittle advise. I know this sounds silly, but I have a chance to >explore teaching and selling products. This sounds great right. Well I >am very good friends with the owner of the only glass shop in the area. >She makes comments about other shops putting glass in there window and >how awful she thinks that is and how they should stay out of her >business. A person approached me about teaching classes at his >business. I would love to do this, but I know my friend will have a >fit. Do I try and incorporate her shop into my class, for example, send >everyone to her shop for glass etc or do I just set it up and say its a >free country. Do you see my problem. If I set it up myself then I can >profit from selling materials on my own. Any suggestions would be >appreciated. >Sue >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 12:31:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 11:58:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Glass Suppliers I need your help. Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 14:56:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199807211856.OAA15741@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk We are in need of 6 sheets of 1/16" float glass Dichroic single weight that transmits a medium to dark blue and reflects magenta. Not a light baby blue. We are also in need of 3 sheets of 1/8" float glass Dichroic that transmits red (and I mean blood red....not orange) and reflects cyan. If anyone out there has this in stock or knows of where I can find this and not in six weeks but now please email me ASAP. Thank you all in advance. my best, pj ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 13:05:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:34:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Mosfunland From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: friendship vs glass Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 15:30:40 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul21.193040.0> Precedence: bulk Go ahead and dive into the water! Life is too short. Start your business, teach, enjoy yourself. We meet lots of different people throughout our lives; some become lifelong acquaintences, some become friends for life. People change, situations change, our lives change suddenly without our permission. You have to be comfortable with your decisions because they will impact on your life. And you know what.......don't project, it won't get you anywhere and it really does more harm then good. It's Ok if your friend feels threatened...they'll get over it...it isn't about her, its about you. Go for it. Maureen mosfunland@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 13:35:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 13:01:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: infinet.com!glasscat From: Carolyn Noel To: Norman & Claudette Jaramillo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Pattern Book Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 15:53:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul21.115336.0> References: <<1998Jul11.23421.0>> Organization: The Stained Glass Place Precedence: bulk Am a little late with this, but just getting caught up from the trade show in Houston. There was a discussion on publishing in the class I took, and thanks to Nancy Willamon, A. Marsden-Plum Gully, Gil Reynolds and Debbie Oxley, I learned some interesting things. They highly recommend doing your own publishing if possible, but as a second choice, CKE publishes patterns, along with GPQ. Might want to check with them on procedures. Carolyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 17:35:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 16:00:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: More glass/more artists Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 18:59:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul21.145912.0> Precedence: bulk Albert says: "The more glass and glass = outlets there are, the more the = consciousness of the public = is raised and the more glass is appreciated." = Amen. Haven't you ever noticed how antique stores seem to = congregate by the dozens? The owners are smart - they know that lots of folks will drive hundreds of miles to visit twenty shops.... but, few will do that to visit just one. Glass shops need to develop the same = kind of business savvy. = And, of course, the added benefit is the quality of work that results when we have a little healthy competition! It doesn't hurt any of us to reach for the best instead of staying mired in our own comfortable little niches. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 18:00:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:27:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!MISGLAS From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: New in town Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:25:36 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul22.02536.0> Precedence: bulk I recently relocated to a different state. (I'm a trailing spouse) Have been doing glass for 10 yrs as a hobby and therapy while working in corporate america and don't want to go back to that arena ever again. I want to expand my glass art into a real business. I can teach but don't know if I want to go that way. I'm in a pretty artsy area (Madison, Wisconsin) Any suggestions from the group on how to proceed? Your help would be greatly appreciated. I really enjoy this group and have learned alot of "tips". Also check out my website. I know it needs work, but it sure was fun to create. I want to expand in that area as well. http://members.aol.com/misglas/index.htm Thanks all. Kathi Poyneer ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 18:31:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:54:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: friendship vs glass Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:52:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199807220052.RAA04434@baby.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk > >Hi Sue, >Go for it!!! >You can't please everyone, but you sure can please yourself. >I know this may sound hard, but you might have to just toughen up against those that don't like things! >But what it boils down to is....if someone gets upset cause you are going forwards that's unfortunatly their problem. >Just go with your heart, you sound like a very nice person and I think you should go forwards. >Smiles, Cindy >PS: If this is a real good friendship, maybe she should be happy for you and not upset. > >> > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 19:03:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 18:12:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Oh what a nightmare-update Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:06:17 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul22.1617.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 7/21/98 1:02:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, SusieHUs@aol.com writes: << All the way around here, she sounds like bad news with whom to be doing business. >> I couldn't agree more! And you get my vote on the next round of sainthood for keeping your cool even slightly. I'd write this place off and look for somewhere else to sell my stuff that is more professionally (or at least honestly) run. Brenda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 19:13:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 18:13:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: friendship vs glass Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:13:24 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul22.11324.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 7/21/98 3:14:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, shakeel@tm.net.my writes: << if you are going to teach, then your are creating your own customers, you are not stealing any of your friend's. >> He's right - I hadn't thought of it that way. Go for it! Brenda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 19:53:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 19:01:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Hartley Wood Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 02:02:22 +0000 Message-ID: <199807220105.CAA12430@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hello EliZabeth, et al The old Hartley-Wood site is gone (... a housing association sounds about right...). "The Glass Centre" in Sunderland opened about 3 weeks ago and is now in full swing. I certainly want to visit it myself. I also feel, the earlier the better, while they've got their "early enthusiasm" up and running and before they become complacent.... I think you know what I mean.... They currently have a "Complete Display" of HW glass -, whatever this means. The ex-employees are - I understand - in deed currently based at The Glass Centre. But I don't know how permanent this is. One of my students went for a "glass-blowing week-end" there, shortly after the opening. He loved every minute of it and brought proudly the resultant product to show me. He had also taken his wife, who was made to join up a "lead stained glass class". My student was highly amused at her initial horror of the fact that she actually was expected to CUT glass..... I have all the blurb about the Sunderland Glass Centre. Any of you in UK interested, send me an e-mail off group and I'll post it to you , though I have an idea that I have already sent you info some months ago. I have your snail-mail addresses (unless there are NEW UK Bunginians lurking, that I don't know about). By the way, She-Who-Is-Omnipotent-And-Must-Be-Obeyed (i.e. Glenna Rand) is coming over to Europe with Dave. I am trying to sweet-talk her to make a little detour to UK from Amsterdam middle of August. I intend to hound all of you individually for some kind of get-together which I'll be delighted to host..... Any initial suggestions..?? Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK At 00:43 21/07/98 +0000, EliSabeth wrote: >UK Hartley-Woood Glass, by the way - is shortly to be "resurrected". >About 4 of the original Hartley-Wood experts have joined EliZabeth in Bournemouth wrote: That would be terrific if they were to carry on making the same quality of glass that the original company did. (snip) We heard that the old site is going for housing development, so wonder if the new company will be sited at the new glass centre in Sunderland which I think is now open. Have you had the chance to visit it? We keep promising ourselves a trip one day but never seem to have the time. By the way, did your Australian students finish their 6 foot crocodile? ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 20:06:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 19:04:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: i2020.net!wickline From: "Robert G. and Rebecca T. Wickline" To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Nice glass people Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:53:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul21.175321.0> Organization: Personal Precedence: bulk Just got back from a trip from Va. to Wisc. and back. Long drive. While I was in Green Bay stopped in at a stained glass store called Glas Haus. I needed to find an address for Delphi that I had forgotten at home. Very nice person took time from her own work to find it for me and then of course we discussed glass. Don't know if she is on line with us or not, but want to thank her anyway for her help. Glass people are really nice. Maybe if she's not on line this will get to her anyway. Unfortunately I ran out of time and didn't get to Delphi. Thanks anyway Becky ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 21 21:03:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:21:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: email.msn.com!bird_cage From: "Doug Parrott" To: Subject: help with trying to scan patterns for e-mail Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:21:02 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul21.13212.0> Precedence: bulk Hi, I have been trying to scan some patterns I have to send to a friend on the ArtGlass World bulletin board. But I am having troubles. It keeps scanning them to 400%. We have a hewellet packard scanjet 5p. does anyone have any suggestions on how to fix this. I have been playing with this for an hour and can't figure it out. thanks, Cheryl Parrott ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 02:52:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 02:13:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: help with trying to scan patterns for e-mail Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 05:19:11 +0000 Message-ID: <199807221055.GAA08845@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > I have been trying to scan some patterns I have to send to a friend on the > ArtGlass World bulletin board. But I am having troubles. It keeps scanning > them to 400%. There should be a setting in the software that will allow you to change that. If not (I'm not familiar with the HP scanner and don't know what software you're using), you can download Paint Shop Pro at http://www.download.com/PC/Result/TitleList/1,2,0-a-0-0-b-1,00.html?st .dl.tdl.qs.results and use it to resize (and a millyun other things) the scans. It's shareware, which means you only pay for it if you decide to keep it, but it's on the honor system, so I guess you wouldn't have to, although I always do (buffing my nails on my ... er, robe at this point). Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 05:54:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 05:21:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel Abedi" To: "Bungi Group" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Non Glass: graphics for homepage. Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 20:21:08 +0800 Message-ID: <1998Jul23.4218.0> Precedence: bulk Folks Been thinking of getting up the home page this weekend. Anyone know where I can get the images and icons and bells & whistles I can use to build the home page? Thanks a lot in advance. Just Started Home Page: Visit if you have nothing else to do. But docome back, things certainly will change. Planning on adding photos of myself, studio and some works. http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Atrium/2543/ Shakeel Abedi 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Johor Malaysia Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 shakeel@tm.net.my ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 06:15:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 05:41:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ezl.com!stepsue From: Sue Prullage To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Thanks for the support Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 07:36:00 -0600 Message-ID: <1998Jul22.1360.0> Precedence: bulk I appreciate all the support on my business adventure. There were many views I had not thought of and made me look at the whole thing in a different light. Thanks again, going to investigate alittle further, but I really want to do this and probably will. As one smart person said "life is too short." Sue ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 06:26:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 06:10:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: having a Bad Patina Day Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:07:25 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul22.13725.0> Precedence: bulk Mike asks: > did you by any chance use flux remover (that stuff is > impossible to remove and can cause this. Nope. Never heard of the stuff. > did you dip in the the patina bottle the last time? Nope. > did you shake the bottle before you used it? Yup. (Force of habit, I tend to shake everything before I open it... occasionally I have to stop myself from shaking a bottle of seltzer before I open it =8-O ) I wondered myself if maybe it was the detergent - some of those are pretty alkaline. I think I'll try some mild (non-conditioning) shampoo or something like that next time and see if that works better. In the mean time, where *did* I put that steel wool? Grrrrrrrrrrrrr! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 06:56:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 06:40:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re:Non Glass: graphics for homepage. Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:38:15 -0400 Message-ID: <199807221338.JAA00429@csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<1998Jul23.4218.0>> Precedence: bulk Shakeel Abedi twists the bytes to say: Shakeel> Folks Shakeel> Been thinking of getting up the home page this weekend. Shakeel> Anyone know where I can get the images and icons and bells & whistles I can Shakeel> use to build the home page? Shakeel> Thanks a lot in advance. I know this is going to be arguable, but here I go. With all the respect, Shakeel, icons and images not related to your content are only distracting and make pages too busy. Concentrate in the content --that is what makes a page important-- and then add visual impact that you're looking for. Mike's page is good not because the visual effect that the pages have, rather, because it is loaded with information. My two canadian cents. -- Daniel M. German http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 07:27:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 07:12:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: 7cities.net!cpjaram From: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" To: "Bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Forwarded Question: obscuring white Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:22:20 -0600 Message-ID: <1998Jul21.142220.0> Precedence: bulk Could anyone help this person? I have never head of obscuring white. thanks cj -----Original Message----- From: Chris De Koning To: cpjaram@7cities.net Date: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 7:23 PM Subject: obscuring white >Hi Claudette! > >This obscuring white is a term given to me by someone in the industry. What >I am trying to achieve is almost >exactly like calcium build up on a coffee pot. I have a turn of the century >church window which has this tecnique >on the inner diamonds. I think a substance is painted on then fired. I >would appreciate any help. > >Thanks > >Christine > >dekon@f1-help.on.ca > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 07:46:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 07:13:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: having a Bad Patina Day Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 07:13:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199807221413.HAA23050@baby.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk Sparks....did you get your electrical problem figured out yet?:):) Try TSP first, find it at the hardware store... Then go with your dish soap... like Joy. Smiles, Cindy > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 07:54:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 07:14:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: mirrors and tremclad Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 07:13:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199807221413.HAA23601@baby.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk Hi guys, I'm rushing around the clock to get some last minute glass work done before holidays...yesterday was jewelery boxes for a woman in Nazko. I ran out of mirror flux for one box bottom, so I grab a can of spray... thought it was a clear varathane... But as it turned out it wasn't.....it's the new BBque paint I bought! Heat resistant black tremclad! So I went with it, it applied quite nicely...nice smooth finish on the back side of the mirror. I continued once fully dried to foil and solder. Hey could this be a new product for glass work with mirrors? The heat resistance part of it would be helpful:):) And it seems to make solid contact to the back of the mirror. Any comments...topic of the day?? I think it will work out fine...but let me know if anyone has tried this.. I leave next week. Smiles, Cindy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 07:59:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 06:52:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: wcnet.net!fibers From: fibers@wcnet.net (fibers) To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Backbone needed Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:57:40 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul22.35740.0> Precedence: bulk Dear Fellow Glass workers, I have tackled a big piece of stained glass. OK, not so big in size, 22" x 33", but difficult for me anyway. It has almost 200 pieces. I have selected the glass, traced the pattern onto poster board, numbered and color coded, cut out, cut the zinc cam for boarders and by all rights I should be ready to start cutting.Right? Somehow I can't bring myself to put cutter to glass. I keep finding things I should do before I start, like clean the shop, take inventory of supplies, etc.. Finally, last night I decided I'm just plain scared. I've only done one other lead project so my confidence is not very high right now. The project is for my son's new bathroom window and has koi, lilly pads and water. I've selected blue baroque glass for the water and it will take some planning to get the ripples just right. Can you think of anything I've missed? Tia Nelda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 08:17:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 07:22:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: city-net.com!dany From: "Daniela Birkelbach" To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Re:Non Glass: graphics for homepage. Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:21:07 -0400 Message-ID: <199807221412.KAA06784@dns.city-net.com> Precedence: bulk Shakeel, >snip > I know this is going to be arguable, but here I go. > > With all the respect, Shakeel, icons and images not related to your > content are only distracting and make pages too busy. > > Concentrate in the content --that is what makes a page important-- and > then add visual impact that you're looking for. Mike's page is good > not because the visual effect that the pages have, rather, because it > is loaded with information. I believe having a little fun on your page is okay - especially if it's related to what you are trying to say. Like an animated mailbox to give the user a place to send you a comment. This address has some backgrounds and animated icons: http://www.nzwwa.com/mirror/frontend/index.htm Dany Daniela Birkelbach Software Consultant dany@city-net.com http://www.city-net.com/~dany ********************************************************************* Many new pictures up on my Stained Glass Pages. Please come and visit! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 08:24:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 07:34:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re:Non Glass: graphics for homepage. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:38:38 +0000 Message-ID: <199807221615.MAA18875@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > With all the respect, Shakeel, icons and images not related to your > content are only distracting and make pages too busy. I agree, Daniel. For instance, on the new site I'm developing for Pat Topp, I turned some of her work into the buttons. Take a look at http://www.diacca.com/ Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 08:42:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:07:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: tsp Was:having a Bad Patina Day Date: Wed, 22 Jul 98 07:54:24 -0700 Message-ID: References: <<199807221413.HAA23050@baby.vphos.net>> Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk You wrote: > Sparks....did you get your electrical problem figured out yet?:):) > Try TSP first, find it at the hardware store... > Then go with your dish soap... like Joy. > Smiles, Cindy tsp does a real bad job on your hands. be sure to wear gloves of some kind and watch out for spattering. there's also a tsp replacement, also called tsp but without the phosphate (how's that for false advertising) that works well too. --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 08:58:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:18:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Janepollak From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: removal Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:15:56 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul22.151556.0> Precedence: bulk Thanks for your assistance with my glass needs. As they were incidental, you can remove me from your list. Thanks, Jane Pollak ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 09:21:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:21:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Witchdoc3@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: having a Bad Patina Day Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:19:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul22.71921.0> References: <<1998Jul22.13725.0>> Precedence: bulk Witchdoc3@aol.com wrote: > > Mike asks: > > > did you by any chance use flux remover (that stuff is > > impossible to remove and can cause this. > > Nope. Never heard of the stuff. > > > did you dip in the the patina bottle the last time? > > Nope. > > > did you shake the bottle before you used it? > > Yup. (Force of habit, I tend to shake everything before I open it... > occasionally I have to stop myself from shaking a bottle of seltzer before I > open it =8-O ) > > I wondered myself if maybe it was the detergent - some of those are pretty > alkaline. I think I'll try some mild (non-conditioning) shampoo or something > like that next time and see if that works better. In the mean time, where > *did* I put that steel wool? Grrrrrrrrrrrrr! > > Sparks > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i heard that baby shampoo may work.. maybe your water turned hard over night. perhaps due to a water main repair. or you could have simply waited too long and the patina would'nt take for that reason. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 09:26:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:24:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Cindy Pesonen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: mirrors and tremclad Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:22:02 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul22.7222.0> References: <<199807221413.HAA23601@baby.vphos.net>> Precedence: bulk Cindy Pesonen wrote: > > Hi guys, > I'm rushing around the clock to get some last minute glass work done before > holidays...yesterday was jewelery boxes for a woman in Nazko. > I ran out of mirror flux for one box bottom, so I grab a can of spray... > thought it was a clear varathane... > But as it turned out it wasn't.....it's the new BBque paint I bought! > Heat resistant black tremclad! > So I went with it, it applied quite nicely...nice smooth finish on the back > side of the mirror. I continued once fully dried to foil and solder. > Hey could this be a new product for glass work with mirrors? > The heat resistance part of it would be helpful:):) > And it seems to make solid contact to the back of the mirror. > Any comments...topic of the day?? > I think it will work out fine...but let me know if anyone has tried this.. > I leave next week. > Smiles, Cindy > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass primarily, it should work. mainly the mirror needs to be sealed one way or another. if the mirror never got ground, chances are it may not blacken, anyway... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 09:49:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:28:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: fibers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Backbone needed Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:25:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul22.72548.0> References: <<1998Jul22.35740.0>> Precedence: bulk fibers wrote: > > Dear Fellow Glass workers, > I have tackled a big piece of stained glass. OK, not so big in size, 22" > x 33", but difficult for me anyway. It has almost 200 pieces. I have > selected the glass, traced the pattern onto poster board, numbered and > color coded, cut out, cut the zinc cam for boarders and by all rights I > should be ready to start cutting.Right? > Somehow I can't bring myself to put cutter to glass. I keep finding > things I should do before I start, like clean the shop, take inventory > of supplies, etc.. Finally, last night I decided I'm just plain scared. > I've only done one other lead project so my confidence is not very high > right now. > The project is for my son's new bathroom window and has koi, lilly pads > and water. I've selected blue baroque glass for the water and it will > take some planning to get the ripples just right. > Can you think of anything I've missed? > Tia > Nelda > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass there's one easy trick that i do. alot of my pieces are now over 300-2500. do one piece at a time... simple as that. don't think of the entire project, or how long it's going to take you to complete it (especially if it's not a rush project). make a piece, do another, and another, and another. one more piece done now, is one less piece you'll have to do tommorow. though i hav'nt started it yet, my sky city project is up to around 2100 pieces, and that's just the shade (which still is'nt done design wise). ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 09:58:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:58:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: obscuring white Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:05:02 +0000 Message-ID: <199807221641.MAA20284@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > >This obscuring white is a term given to me by someone in the industry. What > >I am trying to achieve is almost > >exactly like calcium build up on a coffee pot. I have a turn of the century > >church window which has this tecnique > >on the inner diamonds. I think a substance is painted on then fired. I > >would appreciate any help. Julie Sloan of Cummings Studios says it's called "opaquing white" and that it's available from Reusche: Reusche & Co. of T.W.S., Inc., 1299 H Street, Greeley CO 80631. Phone: (970) 346-8577. Fax: (970) 346-8575. Paint, painting kits, manufacturer. Paint brushes, fusing and painting enamels. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 10:22:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:12:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Backbone needed Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:11:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199807221611.JAA06262@baby.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk >Hi Nelda, I've been doing glass for 17 years now....and I can tell you I've been in those shoes... For some reason this can happen, not to worry you'll get up and over the rock. Sounds like a beauitful window! Take your time with it, to feel comfortable...if time isn't important. While working stop for just a short while... then come back to it and re-examine the progress. I do that if not sure on colors....the hardest for me this year was determining colors for a motorcycle engine. Best advise is to enjoy it. Sometimes we all feel this way, and sometimes we might do things different the next time, but this is now and have fun. Smiles, Cindy > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 10:22:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:43:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Non Glass: graphics for homepage. Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:39:56 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul22.163956.0> Precedence: bulk Daniel says to Shakeel: > With all the respect, Shakeel, icons and images not > related to your content are only distracting and make > pages too busy. I agree 100%, and I would add that another big no-no is COLORED BACKGROUNDS especially dark-colored or patterned ones. Lots of people who design their own pages on color screens tend to go hog-wild, forgetting that some folks are still in the stone age with B&W or grayscale monitors and 28.8 modems and non- frame browsers, and I can say from experience that the result is a page that takes several minutes to load (and looks like a mass of black because the background obscures the text), or doesn't load at all. (My brother the computer graphic designer says, "A lot of beginners do that. They figure, 'I've got [color, sound, movie, or whatever], therefore I *have* to use it.' They try to 'wow' people and forget that they're supposed to be trying to *communicate.*") If you *must* create a pull-out-all-the-stops fancy-schmancy page, at the same time you need to build the same page in good old plain-black-text-on-white HTML with pictures in ordinary JPEG of GIF or whatever. Better yet, your "index" page should always be no-frills HTML with maybe one picture as a "teaser" - save the fancies for pages 2 through ???, and indicate on your main index that you need frame and color capability to go to such-and-such pages. The main thing to remember is, you want to *display* your glasswork, not upstage it with your programming ability. Take a look at several art-show or museum catalogs. The text is always unobtrusive, and the pictures either take up entire pages or if they're 2 to a page they're surrounded by sizeable white space so the pictures don't fight with each other. You just about can't go wrong following their lead. Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 10:30:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:57:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, cpjaram@7cities.net Subject: Forwarded Question: obscuring white Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:55:06, -0500 Message-ID: <199807221655.MAA20948@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>>This obscuring white is a term given to me by someone in the industry. What >I am trying to achieve is almost >exactly like calcium build up on a coffee pot. I have a turn of the century >church window which has this tecnique >on the inner diamonds. I think a substance is painted on then fired. I >would appreciate any help. > >Thanks ><< Obsecuring white is a standard product carried in both the Reusche (two shades) and Fusemaster lines. These are classic fire paints. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *US Navy retired, please pay your taxes promptly.* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 11:05:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:36:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: "Norman & Claudette Jaramillo" ,glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Forwarded Question: obscuring white Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 18:25:01 +0100 Message-ID: <1998Jul22.19251.0> Precedence: bulk At 20:22 21/07/98 -0600, cj wrote: >Could anyone help this person? I have never head of obscuring white. >thanks cj In their book "Stained Glass Painting, the Isenbergs mention this as follows <> They do not state whether the white paint is fired before painting over it, but I think I would be happier painting over a fired paint than unfired in case of mistakes. Although I've never used it myself, we do sell a white shading paint (amongst other colours) to some of our customers who use it to tone down a piece of glass where needed. Hope this helps. Elizabeth Law (Bournemouth Stained Glass) http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 11:30:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:10:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, cpesonen@bcinternet.net Subject: mirrors and tremclad Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:03:29, -0500 Message-ID: <199807221703.NAA16242@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>I ran out of mirror flux for one box bottom, so I grab a can of spray... thought it was a clear varathane... But as it turned out it wasn't.....it's the new BBque paint I bought! Heat resistant black tremclad! So I went with it, it applied quite nicely...nice smooth finish on the back side of the mirror. I continued once fully dried to foil and solder. Hey could this be a new product for glass work with mirrors? The heat resistance part of it would be helpful:):) And it seems to make solid contact to the back of the mirror. Any comments...topic of the day?? I think it will work out fine...but let me know if anyone has tried this.. I leave next week. Smiles, Cindy<< I think you may be onto something. Having said that, I would suggest that it would be good to test a new product for say at least six weeks before using it on a project. Never can tell, it might eat mirror silvering. Oh what a wet rag I am today, Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *US Navy retired, please pay your taxes promptly.* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 11:51:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:41:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Backbone needed Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:25:46 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0> Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk Nelda-- Koi, lily pads & water? Sounds kinda like the CKE Water Minuet pattern. Been there, done that. See bungi gallery at: http://csg.uwaterloo.ca:80/~dmg/glass/gallery. I used bullseye for the fish and the lilypads--expensive but really nice. The stuff I used for the water was blue and green and heavily rippled. If I was doing it again, I would use something with less texture (I used copper foil and it was a major headache foiling those *@#$ ripples!). It was also hard to cut the long thin pieces--I consider myself a pretty decent cutter, but it took multiple attempts on some of those. As far as tackling a big project, I try to think of it in smaller sections. And although I usually start with the most difficult parts, on a big project it helps to start with the easier stuff (to build confidence, momentum & enthusiasm). Kaye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 12:40:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:04:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mercury.net!johnnyc From: Johnny West To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Remove Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 14:02:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul22.10245.0> Precedence: bulk Please remove me from the list,,,,,,,,,,,,,,for a few days. Thanks,,JW ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 12:57:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:34:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Non Glass: graphics for homepage. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 14:39:37 +0000 Message-ID: <199807222016.QAA01453@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > I agree 100%, and I would add that another big no-no is > > COLORED BACKGROUNDS Especially if you then use white type so it's readable on-screen, then expect them to print out something useful. The white type prints, all right, but white on white is hard to read. And the background won't print at all, so there you are: white paper. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 13:09:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:50:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: wcnet.net!fibers From: fibers@wcnet.net (fibers) To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Backbone needed Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:55:16 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul22.85516.0> References: <<35B62C3B.BC98139C@erols.com>> Precedence: bulk Yes, Nadine, I understand what you mean about cutting the "way they lay".I'm starting in the lower left hand corner and it is the 'water'. After reading your post, I've gone back and repositioned the pattern pieces and it looks so much better. Maybe that's just what I needed to get started. At any rate, I've cut the first pieces. They look good and I anxious to get going on the rest of it. Thanks to all of you for the encouragement you offered. It's so nice to have a group to depend on when you are the only one you know who does stained glass. Nelda Nadine Beth Schneider wrote: > Hi Nelda. . . > > Take a deep breath and begin. The glass won't bite back! I've used > cobalt baroque for water before and it has always come out beautiful. > Are you going to cut it out continuously? I find it looks best when all > the pieces are cut from a sheet in order that they lay. This is a > little confusing. . do you know what I mean? So that all the lines flow > the way they do when it is whole. Anyway....good luck! > Nadine > > > Dear Fellow Glass workers, > > I have tackled a big piece of stained glass. OK, not so big in size, > > 22" > > x 33", but difficult for me anyway. It has almost 200 pieces. I have > > selected the glass, traced the pattern onto poster board, numbered and > > > > color coded, cut out, cut the zinc cam for boarders and by all rights > > I > > should be ready to start cutting.Right? > > Somehow I can't bring myself to put cutter to glass. I keep finding > > things I should do before I start, like clean the shop, take inventory > > > > of supplies, etc.. Finally, last night I decided I'm just plain > > scared. > > I've only done one other lead project so my confidence is not very > > high > > right now. > > The project is for my son's new bathroom window and has koi, lilly > > pads > > and water. I've selected blue baroque glass for the water and it will > > take some planning to get the ripples just right. > > Can you think of anything I've missed? > > Tia > > Nelda > > > > ---- > > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 13:44:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:50:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: email.msn.com!crzylynna From: "Lynn Alchin" To: "fibers" , Subject: Re: Backbone needed Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:44:27 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul22.24427.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Tia; There are those times when my confidence has escaped out the window also... I have had a friend for 11 years, and we worked on glass together all the time. Now I live in Arizona & she is back in Pennsylvania, and whenever I seem to start a new commission job, I go & work in the garden & re-arrange my glass shelves- do inventory of my glass- go to the distributors to buy more... Then I call Judy. I'm not sure what it is she's says to me, but somehow, after that phone call, I start to cut. She just has a way of saying- stop thinking & start cutting. Tia- I know that this really isn't the kind of input that you probably wanted to hear, but I just wanted to let you know that I go thru the same thing, and it will be all right. Just cut that first piece!! Good luck to you, I'm sure you'll be fine. Sounds to me like you have the bases covered. Lynn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 14:16:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:46:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Grozing Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:42:46 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0> Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk "Grozing" is a concept which I have never really understood. I use my grozers for breaking scores close to the edge of the glass, (sometimes with less than satisfactory results), but beyond that....? Can somebody please explain "grozing?" I gather it has something to do with "nibbling" away the glass, but when, why (and how) does one "groze?" Kaye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 14:42:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:26:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: Citadel.edu!HILLEKER From: HILLEKER@Citadel.edu To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Subject: lampshade problem Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:48:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1998Jul22.94833.0> Precedence: bulk I have a glass problem that makes me mad every time I think about it. I am building a Cattail lamp shade and I am almost finished with it. The problem is that I have stupidly used two different blues as background colors for the cattails. The blues look exactly the same in reflected light, but one of them transmits more light than the other. When they are back-lit they look very different (even to my colorblind eyes!). It would be OK if the blues were separated on the shade, but they are mixed pretty much randomly among the background. I didn't discover this until I had the shade soldered together and I put it over a light to see how it looked. Well, I was so sick I put the shade under a table where it sat for the past five years. My question, is there any way to salvage this shade without taking it apart and redoing all the background? I thought I might try painting the backs of the blue pieces so that they would all have about the same transmittance. Any other ideas? Thank you, and boy am I embarrassed Russ Hilleke hilleker@citadel.edu ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 14:54:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:29:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Forwarded Question: obscuring white Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:51:59 +0000 Message-ID: <199807222129.RAA05324@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > They do not state whether the white paint is fired before painting over it, > but I think I would be happier painting over a fired paint than unfired in > case of mistakes. Imagine all that painting going on in the work of Tiffany, who often bragged that he never used paint on glass, but achieved his studio's results with opalescent glass. That was, of course, mere braggadocio, since Tiffany Studios panels incorporate *lots of paint, sometimes astounding amounts of it. The famous "Peacock," for example, has a ton of paint on it ... which isn't to say it isn't a stunning piece of work. > Although I've never used it myself, we do sell a white shading paint > (amongst other colours) to some of our customers who use it to tone down a > piece of glass where needed. Even cold paint was (and is) often used for the same reason. I've seen panels "dirtied down" with black or brown so that they appear to be "old" ... or at least as old as those the new panel is joining. That must present a bit of a quandry when it comes time for restoration, since the original windows would be restored to their original (bright?) condition, while the new (dirtied) window would also be restored to its original ... voila! mismatch! I've also seen cold paint that had been (arguably) intentionally applied by the artist to achieve certain effects removed (oh, I mangled this sentence) ... anyway, original paint was removed when it should have been left in place. It's always hard making distinctions and decisions like that during restoration, which is why it's so difficult, time-consuming and expensive, because it needs so much careful thought and research. My 2c worth, anyway. Off soapbox. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 15:26:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 14:41:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Kaye Sodt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Grozing Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 17:40:38 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul22.134038.0> References: <<1970Jan1.000.0>> Precedence: bulk Kaye Sodt wrote: > > "Grozing" is a concept which I have never really understood. I > use my grozers for breaking scores close to the edge of the glass, > (sometimes with less than satisfactory results), but beyond that....? > > Can somebody please explain "grozing?" I gather it has something to > do with "nibbling" away the glass, but when, why (and how) does one > "groze?" > > Kaye > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass grozing really is'nt used as much since grinders became popular. basically you flip you pliers over to the straight side. and then nip little bits of the glass off. sometimes in a scraping motion. it's a bit messy, but good to know, it saves some wear and tear on your grinder. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 16:10:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:47:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: HILLEKER@Citadel.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: lampshade problem Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 18:44:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul22.14447.0> References: <<1998Jul22.94833.0>> Precedence: bulk HILLEKER@Citadel.edu wrote: > > I have a glass problem that makes me mad every time > I think about it. I am building a Cattail lamp shade > and I am almost finished with it. The problem is that I > have stupidly used two different blues as background colors > for the cattails. The blues look exactly the same in reflected > light, but one of them transmits more light than the other. > When they are back-lit they look very different (even to my > colorblind eyes!). It would be OK if the blues were separated > on the shade, but they are mixed pretty much randomly among > the background. I didn't discover this until I had the shade > soldered together and I put it over a light to see how it looked. > Well, I was so sick I put the shade under a table where it sat > for the past five years. > > My question, is there any way to salvage this shade without > taking it apart and redoing all the background? I thought I > might try painting the backs of the blue pieces so that > they would all have about the same transmittance. Any other > ideas? > > Thank you, and boy am I embarrassed > > Russ Hilleke > hilleker@citadel.edu > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well, you could either leave it like that, and tell people that, "that's my artistic interprataion (sp?). or you can plate the lighter colors with either another color, or the same color, so it's a little darker. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 16:43:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:33:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: flinet.com!kenneil From: Ken Neil To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Maltese dog pattern Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 18:35:45 -0500 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Anybody out there have a Maltese dog Pattern?? I already have the Dog gone pattern book which has a Maltese in it, but I'm not to crazy about that one. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Brenda ;-) ******************************************************************** Been There........ Done That! Ken Neil Jupiter, Florida ******************************************************************** ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 18:11:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 17:33:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Totally astonished Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 17:35:08 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul22.10358.0> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk I have been working the last two weeks trying to get myself motivated to get product ready for this fair that opened today. One of my hard fast rules, is never do a fair. But I had done a Christmas Show at the old fair grounds and had been told that the fair was just like the christmas show and the promoters were very good with the crafters. The city just build a new fair and expo center and this is the first year in the new facility. So I thought great, new building, 5 days(killer hours) and only $65 fee. What did I have to loose. Got there this morning and we were in the 4-H building with the chickens, ducks, rabbits, carnies, parrots(that were molting), snakes(including a rattler that was unmaned), lizards, and house plants. The place smelled like a cat litter box. 14 of the 18 crafter scheduled showed up and STAYED. I complained, got my money back, with an apology. I also explained to the new director what it is like to do crafts and how insulting that was. The sign out front the main enterance into the building was in bright neon orange and it said Rabbits and Repitiles. That right there should let you know the people in charge were not thinking. Why would you put natural preditors together with their prey, let alone with crafters. I am still in total disbelief. I literally feel numb. Guess I am in shock!!!! Oh well, hopefully they took what I said(nicely) to heart and will rememdy the process next year. Just thought I would share that one with you all. Shirley B ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 19:14:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 18:27:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Friendship vs Glass Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 20:25:19 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul22.152519.0> Precedence: bulk Sue et al, I am a firm believer in friendship. However, I always think of an old quote when "friends" are involved. " When the world walks out .... a friend walks in". In this case do you think she would walk in? If not she is not a friend she is an acquaintance. Using this definition I have had very few "friends" and many acquaintances. As far as the business end is concerned, when a customer tells you I'll buy one in a different color, different style, etc., she should have gotten their personal information, contacted you and had a "custom" piece. If the customer really wanted the item they would say so. My 2 cents worth. Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 19:34:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 18:35:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ppp24.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Re:having a Bad Patina Day Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:29:57 -0400 Message-ID: <199807211429.KAA00518@csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<1998Jul21.22040.0>> Precedence: bulk Witchdoc3 twists the bytes to say: Witchdoc3> A weird thing happened this afternoon when I went to put copper patina on a Witchdoc3> couple of finished pieces. Freshly soldered, washed (with ordinary liquid Witchdoc3> dishwashing soap - Sunlight, I think), thoroughly rinsed & dried, and I was Witchdoc3> using a new bottle of patina (only used once before, a couple of weeks ago, Witchdoc3> and worked fine then) and a clean cotton rag... and the result was a patchy, Witchdoc3> scuzzy, skanky, uneven mix of not-too-bright copper and corrosion that took a Witchdoc3> hell of a lot of scrubbing with a toothbrush and then more scrubbing with a Witchdoc3> lot of Kem-O-Pro to get looking even marginal. Witchdoc3> Anybody have any idea why it did that? Suggestions on cleaning it up? I am not an expert, but I have similar results after using the copper patina. You then have to use some silicon based wax, polish it, and it will look shiny and as copper (you probably have at this point a reddish, brick-ish colour). I just came back from my "summer trips" and I am getting back to the gallery. Please, those who I have not replied to, bear with me. :) barefoot daniel -- Daniel M. German "That the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical John Stuart Mill -> or moral, is not a sufficient warrant." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 19:57:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 19:03:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: Backbone needed Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 21:00:22 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul22.16022.0> Precedence: bulk For large or complex projects ... its kind of like: How do you eat an elephant ..... one bite at a time. Try to think of small sections maybe 4" x 4". Good Luck Patrick Roses and Rainbows PS. If you are still wanting to put it off, my garage is in desperate need of cleaning. I have to slide sideways into it. Damn glass cuts all over my belly. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 20:17:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 18:41:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: RE: New in Town Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 20:36:59 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul22.153659.0> Precedence: bulk First things first. Get a good business plan. You can get find them on the Internet. This will give you a solid basis for investment. Without it it's is a guessing game. The Small Business Administration (USA) can assist you to. Good Luck Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 21:36:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 20:10:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hotmail.com!scottjf55 From: "scott floyd" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re:grozing Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 18:23:06 PDT Message-ID: <1998Jul23.1236.0> Precedence: bulk I have always thought of grozing as using the plier with the little "teeth" to kinda pre grind the shards and reverse oyster shells off of the freshly broken piece of glass. It saves from having to grind all those little sharp edges. So it's like a file, you use the jaws to just "groze" the edge. I have used grozing and no grinding for really big lead church window borders. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 22 21:54:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 20:11:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary From: "Hilary A. Bobker" To: Shakeel Abedi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Non Glass: graphics for homepage. Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 22:12:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul22.18129.0> References: <<1998Jul23.4218.0>> Organization: HABit Fashion Services Precedence: bulk > Anyone know where I can get the images and icons and bells & whistles I can > use to build the home page? Search on Clip Art in Lycos or the like. You will find enough to overwhelm you for weeks. Hilary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 23 01:09:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 22:36:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: webtv.net!Beadnik2 From: Beadnik2@webtv.net (Joan) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Flash Venting Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 01:35:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1998Jul22.213518.0> Precedence: bulk Through posts on this newsgroup I have learned that by flash venting the kiln I am, in effect, also tempering the glass. This makes it difficult to cut up fused sections or drill into it, so I am no longer flash venting. My question: In the final firing, is there an advantage to flash venting, and tempering, the glass. Does it make the finished piece stronger or less fragile? BTW, I am fusing small pieces in a Quik-Fire kiln to be used as components in jewelry. Thanks! Joan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 23 02:35:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 02:13:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones From: "B. S. Jones" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: RE: Summer time blues...back to glass, and weird tools Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 11:09:17 +0100 Message-ID: <1998Jul23.12917.0> Precedence: bulk Pathologically Resourceful Weirdo and Hardware Junkie that I am, I'm thinking about investing in a power conditioner/uninterruptible power source, say a 200-watt one. It will be a hell of a lot cheaper than rewiring the house, and will let me keep working. (I'm generally not awake enough to solder in the morning.) What my enquiring mind wants to know is: has anyone tried this? Anyone have any thoughts on the idea? I just replaced all of our computer room UPS units here and when I talked to the engineer who fitted them he mentioned just this. He lives out in the sticks in the UK with ropy power supplies. Being priveleged he had access to old big UPS units and has his whole house on UPS. The mains goes directly into the ups. Obviously this is the ultimate method but a small UPS.. cost 200 dollars would help a lot just to run a computer. Brandon S. Jones ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 23 03:34:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 02:54:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bham.ac.uk!b.s.jones From: "B. S. Jones" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: RE: having a Bad Patina Day Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 11:48:36 +0100 Message-ID: <1998Jul23.124836.0> Precedence: bulk A weird thing happened this afternoon when I went to put copper patina on a couple of finished pieces. Freshly soldered, washed (with ordinary liquid dishwashing soap - Sunlight, I think), thoroughly rinsed & dried, and I was using a new bottle of patina (only used once before, a couple of weeks ago, and worked fine then) and a clean cotton rag... and the result was a patchy, scuzzy, skanky, uneven mix of not-too-bright copper and corrosion that took a hell of a lot of scrubbing with a toothbrush and then more scrubbing with a lot of Kem-O-Pro to get looking even marginal. Anybody have any idea why it did that? Suggestions on cleaning it up? I had this problem with solder. I used solder from a reel classed as lead solder of the right type. The solder was dark grey in color. Recently I found my local stained glass supply store was in walking distance of where I work. When I used their stick solder which was half the price of the other solder I used it worked perfectly with the same patina.The new solder is lighter in color. Used the same flux and cleaning techniques. Brandon S. Jones ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 23 04:32:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 04:04:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: having a Bad Patina Day Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 06:59:38 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul23.105938.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Sparks, It was nice meeting you at Christie's shop the last time I ventured in. As far as copper patina goes, we have had this conversation on bungi before, quite some time ago. Last time there was really no resolution to the problem either. It just seems to be one of those things that we cannot be sure of having control over. However, IMHO, I say, "SCRUB, SCRUB, SCRUB the @#%* out of the piece before using copper patina. When you think it is clean, scrub it some more and rinse thoroughly using a clean sponge under water, or your hand to get that soap residue off. Rub hard to dry, no air drying and apply patina immediately. Hope this helps. Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 23 06:13:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 05:50:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ezl.com!stepsue From: Sue Prullage To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: re. lampshade problem Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 07:28:13 -0600 Message-ID: <1998Jul23.12813.0> Precedence: bulk Personnally one of the things I love about glass is very seldom is there a perfect piece. Although it was not what you planned does it look bad? Have you gotten an unbiased opinion about the lamp? You may just be too hard on yourself because what you planned did not work. My suggestion would be use the lamp look at it for awhile and if you really can't stand it the way it is then change it. My 2 cents worth. Sue P ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 23 07:13:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 06:36:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: having a Bad Patina Day Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:34:32 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul23.133432.0> Precedence: bulk Mike says: > i heard that baby shampoo may work.. I seem to remember Christie using veterinary shampoo for a while; that stuff was pretty good. Of late she's been using "Wipe Out" emulsifier. That's really good stuff, but I think she said it's been discontinued. Dani also suggested horse shampoo. One of our local drug stores carries a few brands of the stuff (at first I thought it was because we're so close to the Devon [PA] Horse Show grounds, but they carry it year-round) - will check it out next time I'm there. I suspect the vet shampoos aren't so full of perfume and other stuff. Anyhoo, it's a mystery. Back to steel wool and green scrubbees... and thanks to everyone for all the helpful hints! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 23 07:37:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 06:36:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel Abedi" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Non Glass: graphics for homepage. Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:38:39 +0800 Message-ID: <1998Jul24.03839.0> Precedence: bulk Very True, Albert. I have really despaired at times trying to make out what is on the screen. Visited the Pat Topp's site. Very impressive, Albert, very impressive. Thanks a lot. http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Atrium/2543/ Shakeel Abedi 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Johor Malaysia Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 shakeel@tm.net.my -----Original Message----- From: Albert Lewis To: glass@bungi.com Date: Thursday, July 23, 1998 5:00 AM Subject: Re: Non Glass: graphics for homepage. > >> I agree 100%, and I would add that another big no-no is >> >> COLORED BACKGROUNDS > >Especially if you then use white type so it's readable on-screen, >then expect them to print out something useful. The white type >prints, all right, but white on white is hard to read. And the >background won't print at all, so there you are: white paper. > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 23 08:00:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 07:05:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Stop thinking, was Re: Backbone needed Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:34:42 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul23.133442.0> Precedence: bulk Lynn quotes her friend Judy: > stop thinking & start cutting. Truer words were never spoken! I find the same thing is true for me re designing. I can sit and try to "plan" a project (be it glass, desktop publishing, rearranging a room, or whatever) and get nowhere, or I can walk away from it and let it percolate in my subconscious while I do everything else in the world, and finally late some night when I'm dead-tired, my customary late-evening glass of wine is settling in real nice, and the left brain doesn't know what the right brain is doing, the "answer" will pop into my head and I grab my paper and pencils off the nightstand and sketch it out. (My resident significant other, a composer, writes most of his music late at night too. We sometimes get a good chuckle out of realizing that there we are, piled up together like puppies in our comfy nest, both sketching away...) Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 23 08:14:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 07:59:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Shakeel Abedi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Non Glass: graphics for homepage. Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:55:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul23.65559.0> References: <<1998Jul24.03839.0>> Precedence: bulk Shakeel Abedi wrote: > > Very True, Albert. I have really despaired at times trying to make out what > is on the screen. > > Visited the Pat Topp's site. Very impressive, Albert, very impressive. > Thanks a lot. > > http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Atrium/2543/ > Shakeel Abedi > 104, Jalan Mersing > 86000 Kluang > Johor > Malaysia > Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 > shakeel@tm.net.my > > -----Original Message----- > From: Albert Lewis > To: glass@bungi.com > Date: Thursday, July 23, 1998 5:00 AM > Subject: Re: Non Glass: graphics for homepage. > > > > >> I agree 100%, and I would add that another big no-no is > >> > >> COLORED BACKGROUNDS > > > >Especially if you then use white type so it's readable on-screen, > >then expect them to print out something useful. The white type > >prints, all right, but white on white is hard to read. And the > >background won't print at all, so there you are: white paper. > > > >Albert > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass actually there is a good place for graphics but you need to link back to her site (the graphics are a little obvious). moyera's web jewels: http://www.mysticpc.com/jewels/ ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 23 10:11:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:35:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: lampshade problem Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 12:31:50 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul23.83150.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:HILLEKER@Citadel.edu >My question, is there any way to salvage this shade without taking it apart and redoing all the background? I thought I = might try painting the backs of the blue pieces so that they would all have about the same transmittance. Any other ideas?< How about finding a glass for plating (2 layers of glass soldered atop one another), which will make one color equal to the other? Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 23 13:41:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:24:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Backbone needed Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:19:43 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul23.201943.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-07-22 11:02:00 EDT, you write: > Can you think of anything I've missed? > Tia Ut uh Tia, you want us to come up with more reasons for you NOT to start your project. Take a DEEP breath, decide which part of this will be FUN to start, maybe the Koi, save the baroque if it scares you, till you get the feel of the panel and remember this is for a Loved one and I'm sure he will be thrilled to come watch every so often to see how its going. deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 23 20:29:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:00:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Grozing Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 14:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199807232137.OAA27573@baby.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk Grozing saves fingers! Burrs of thin glass on the edge that find their way to your already sore fingers!!! Also lets say cutting a curve or circle and there's little gaps from start to finish from the other start to finish...also saves time on the grinder and saves you from surprize "ouchies". Elizabeth from the UK teaches great lessons on it!...smiles. Smiles, Cindy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 23 20:49:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:01:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Flash Venting Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 14:27:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199807232127.OAA25626@baby.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk >Hi Joan, Does flash venting temper glass? Interesting.... as I have always thought it was the annealling process that tempers glass. Joan, I do flash vent always! Have not drilled my pieces, but I can cut easy and grind easy. Flashing vent... is to remore the heating process. Hence slowing the melt. Bob D. from Mountain Meadow is a smart man...who should answer this!! Except for his wet rag stuff...chuckle again, Bob! Smiles, Cindy > >Through posts on this newsgroup I have learned that by flash venting the >kiln I am, in effect, also tempering the glass. This makes it difficult >to cut up fused sections or drill into it, so I am no longer flash >venting. My question: > >In the final firing, is there an advantage to flash venting, and >tempering, the glass. Does it make the finished piece stronger or less >fragile? BTW, I am fusing small pieces in a Quik-Fire kiln to be used as >components in jewelry. > >Thanks! > >Joan > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 23 20:58:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:23:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: email.msn.com!bird_cage From: "Doug Parrott" To: "Albert Lewis" Subject: Re: help with trying to scan patterns for e-mail Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:22:16 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul23.132216.0> Precedence: bulk Albert and all, Thank you for the help with my scanner problem. I contacted HP customer service and they walked me through the installation of the software. It appears my husband hadn't downloaded the Paperport Software when he installed the program. Yes, it wasn't me!! However, part of the problem came how I was saving the file. Alls fine now. Thanks for all your help. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 23 22:04:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:50:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, cpesonen@bcinternet.net Subject: Flash Venting Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 00:46:22, -0500 Message-ID: <199807240446.AAA11458@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>Does flash venting temper glass? Interesting.... as I have always thought it was the annealling process that tempers glass. Joan, I do flash vent always!<< My take on this is as follows: 1. Flash venting is a term normally used to refer to opening the lid of the kiln to quickly reduce the heat and stop the project from being over worked in a normal cool down. Normally the kiln lid is closed at about 1000'F so the kiln can go through the anneal area (often about 950'F) in the normal fashion. Once firing formulas are worked out for repative projects they normally do not include flash venting. 2. Glass that has been properly annealed for its type and thickness will be easier to cut than glass that has been hurried through the anneal zone. By properly annealed I mean that the stress associated with fast cooling is avoided by slow cooling. Glass above about 1000'F can have no stress as it is plastic. 3. Many glasses can build up a certain amount of strain if hurried through the range from anneal temperature to about 700'F. They will be somewhat tempered and hard to cut. 4. Tempered glass, the stuff that shatteres into a million pieces, is a product of a RAPID cooling process that is not normally considered to be within the capability of a stained glass studio. It is best ordered from a tempering facility in the CORRECT size for it can not be resized due to the energy locked within the outer skin of the glass by the rapid cooling process. This glass is about five times as strong as the same glass untempered and much less dangerous should a person be thrown through it. It has surprising characteristics and the same piece of glass may stand up to hammer blows and then be shattered by a BB gun. >>Bob D. from Mountain Meadow is a smart man.<< And I might add very hansom too. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *US Navy retired, please pay your taxes promptly.* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 23 22:33:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 23 Jul 1998 22:03:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Flash Venting Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:14:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199807240414.VAA28052@baby.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk >> >>>Hi Joan, >> >>Does flash venting temper glass? >>Interesting.... as I have always thought it was the annealling process that >>tempers glass. >>Joan, I do flash vent always! >>Have not drilled my pieces, but I can cut easy and grind easy. >>Flashing vent... is to remore the heating process. >>Hence slowing the melt. >>Bob D. from Mountain Meadow is a smart man...who should answer this!! >>Except for his wet rag stuff...chuckle again, Bob! >>Smiles, Cindy >> >>> >>>Through posts on this newsgroup I have learned that by flash venting the >>>kiln I am, in effect, also tempering the glass. This makes it difficult >>>to cut up fused sections or drill into it, so I am no longer flash >>>venting. My question: >>> >>>In the final firing, is there an advantage to flash venting, and >>>tempering, the glass. Does it make the finished piece stronger or less >>>fragile? BTW, I am fusing small pieces in a Quik-Fire kiln to be used as >>>components in jewelry. >>> >>>Thanks! >>> >>>Joan >>> >>>---- >>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >>> >>> >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >> > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 24 05:15:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 04:39:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mpx.com.au!harlquin From: "Gerard" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: re Home page bells and wistles Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 21:34:24 +1000 Message-ID: <1998Jul25.73424.0> Precedence: bulk If you are after a store page have a look at www.mystore.to in Tonga island. very good easy to adapt to your products. I am setting it up for our business have a look Harlequin www.surf.to/harlquin ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 24 05:29:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 04:44:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mpx.com.au!harlquin From: "Gerard" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: re flash venting Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 21:39:37 +1000 Message-ID: <1998Jul25.73937.0> Precedence: bulk i believe that flash venting is best use when firing glass like spectrum to avoid some problems with devitrification which occurs when the glass is held for too long at fusing temperature. if you get good result without it then don't worry ! Harlequin www.surf.to/harlquin ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 24 06:52:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 06:20:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: retirement and handsome men:):)NONE GLASS Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 23:06:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199807240606.XAA08982@baby.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk Okie dokie Hansom Bob!!! Do you pay retired taxes??? Not knowing what you look like, hmmmmm, take your word on it? Does the group follow suit???? Albert...got comments??? Guess who is talking now!!! Holidays for a day play havac:) Handsome Bob speaks at end of message!!!!!: >>>Bob D. from Mountain Meadow is a smart man.<< And I might add very >hansom too. Bob > > >____ >Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 >*US Navy retired, please pay your taxes promptly.* > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 24 07:48:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 07:13:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Water Pik on Grinder??? Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:10:07 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul24.14107.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-07-24 09:54:44 EDT, you write: > Hi Folks; > > I would be interested in seeing how you plan on hooking this up to have it > work, please send me a picture. > > Thanks, > Tim B Tim I added your message to me as it wasn't posted to bungi, (remember to reply to bungi you have to add it to the address, hitting reply just doesn't do it anymore LOL) I'm not good with pictures but I can imagine as light as the handle in the water pik is that you could easily taped it so that it is aimed in the best location. As for the foot peddle you would put the grinder and the water pik on a outlet bar which would then be plugged into the footpeddle, this way they both come on at the same time. deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 24 08:04:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 07:27:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: BOB DUCHESNEAU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Pyramid Pattern??? Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 09:44:05 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul24.5445.0> References: <<199807240446.AAA11458@mime3.prodigy.com>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi All, Does anyone have a pattern for a pyramid?? 4" base or 6" base, or any dimension base, I can make it bigger or smaller in the software. Right now I have a mental block on how to put it together so all the sides are even. (having hunch it is easier than I'm thinking) Thanks, Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 24 13:58:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 13:29:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!MISGLAS From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: RE: New in town responses Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 16:27:53 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul24.202753.0> Precedence: bulk thanks everyone who responded. Your suggestions have given me alot to think about. I also appreciate the kind words from those of you who viewed my website. I still haven't made a final decision on where I'm going, but your comments gave me the boost I needed to realize that I have to take my glass art to the next level. I'll keep you posted. Thanks again. Kathi P. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 24 15:33:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 15:14:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: scc.net!oddjob From: Susan Reitmann To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Pattern Search: Mt.Ranier Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 17:19:18 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul24.121918.0> Precedence: bulk Looking for a landscape scene that would be a good faxcimile to Mt. Ranier in Washington. Client has sent several postcards so if I could find something with the basics I could adapt it. Have one by Caroline Kyle called Mountain Lake but it looks a little Minnesota North Woodsy (except of course for the mountain ) Any suggestions greatly appreciated, TIA Sue Reitmann ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 24 17:36:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 17:06:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Grozing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 00:58:56 +0000 Message-ID: <199807250002.BAA06716@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hi All, Grozing saves glass, saves work saves time, saves energy, saves expensive grinder wheels, saves fingers, saves plasters, saves insurance policy cost.... Mike might not think it's used or taught "a lot" these days. Well Mike, let me assure you that I would certainly make YOU know the traditional and proper use of a grozier pliers. A "breaking plier" is different, has a different purpose, and even looks different. I spend at least ONE full lesson with my students showing, demonstrating and making THEM practise the "anatomy" of a grozier plier, how to use it effectively and efficiently. I myself use grozier pliers every day, all the time for grinding, trimming, adjusting cuts, curves and edges. You can do almost ALL your glass cleaning and adjustments with a grozier plier for LEAD-work. The price difference: a grozier plier in UK: grozier pliers 11 US Dollars.... the smallest, cheapest possible electrical grinder to buy: 140 US Dollars. For a hobbyist!!! A lot of money!!! For SOME people in UK the cost of a grinder represent almost one week's gross wages. So guess WHO will be teaching good old-fashioned cheaper alternatives!!! Don't get complacent! Modern technology is all very well. But what DO you do if you have a power-cut???? What do you do if you have a very limited budget but are totally addicted to stained glass?? You improvise! You go back to humble "beginnings"! You even hand-craft your OWN tools!! I have just had a very frustrated young student with me this morning. Term has ended.... a Loooong time till end of September. This student has worked on her first panel for almost 12 months. It's lovely, her soldering is a joy, the design totally her own. She is 20 years old and VERY talented. She recently left College. She hasn't got a regular job, she does gardening, helps out painting theatre scenery props, cleans houses. Very earnest, totally meticulous. has given her entire soul to her FIRST panel. Just because she herself is so meticulous, I made it my business to "nit-pick" with her about her soldering. She came to my home this morninf and spent the morning on my patio learning about the dirty work of cementing. ....And YES Dani!!!! While her panel was setting, she joined me in the garden , took up a pick-axe and helped me to dig out a root of an old shrub that I had been trying to kill off and get rid of. She dug it out for me.... With a BIG smile on her face. (Have I earned some "brownie-points" now....?) SHE can't afford grinders here and kilns there and pointless "gizmos" elsewhere. By taking her and people LIKE her back to basics, I make it affordable and accessible to her - at the same time she also is taught her OWN innovational skills, her OWN imagination is fired. To buy and own a GRINDER isn't life and death, it doesn't make you a BETTER craftsman. And....funnily enough, I find that by bringing students BACK to basics, they THEMSELVES will find imaginative ways of doing stained glass better; they themselves are fired to think of making wonderful tools that cost little, are easy to make and are most effective to do the job. Who is a firm believer in taking stained glass, traditionally - a step at a time??? Yours Truly! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Cindy wrote: > Grozing saves fingers! Snip > Elizabeth from the UK teaches great lessons on it!...smiles. Cindy.... to confuse everyone.... there are TWO of us in UK.... EliZZZZZabeth in Bournemouth (who also has a retail store) EliSSSSSabeth ('n Toby) (The Viking one- 'n who doesn't) One with a ZZZZed One with an eSSSSS We are occasionally causing confusion.... ......... > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 24 18:32:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 18:20:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Grozing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 21:25:57 +0000 Message-ID: <199807250306.XAA05893@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > The price difference: a grozier plier in UK: grozier > pliers 11 US Dollars.... the smallest, cheapest possible electrical > grinder to buy: 140 US Dollars. > For a hobbyist!!! A lot of money!!! I quite agree ... and for those who push such non-necessities on hobbyists, a lot of money, too. Income, that is. A grinder is for the most part unnecessary. A little practice with the tools that have been around 700+ years to enjoy a craft and an art that's been around that long, too, is all that's needed. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 24 19:04:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 18:37:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: non-glass....website/s Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 02:30:10 +0000 Message-ID: <199807250133.CAA14255@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Shakeel, (and ....of course... others) For a simple effective and "punchy" web-site, I think you need to keep it as simple as possible (Elisabeth is back to her BASICS again!!) I have been watching the toing-and-froing of these exhanges with interest. Mike Savad's web-page is really quite something....in many ways. Occasionally I wonder if I don't remember it more for all the "bells and whistles", than for impact of his work. (I really couldn't care less how many weird & wonderful prizes he's won for web-page design... ALL I'm interested in is his stained glass WORK... and his adventures with the aliens.... the "dimple" is rather fetching... though... ;-> ) It was with considerable trepidation I myself "launched" a web-site a few years ago now. It was even worse, because I didn't do a single thing myself. My "computer-guru" did ALL. So in some ways, I am probably the LAST one who should speak. About 2.5 years ago I tentatively asked a stained glass professional in USA to criticize and make suggestions about my web-site. We all know and are fond of this person.... ;-). THREE things came back at me a) the web-page was down-loaded very quickly b) the thumb-nails were clear and easy to use. c) The design of the web-page was clear, simple and straight-forward. Over the years I have learned more and more that THESE THREE principles are most important. I have frequently tried to visit a stained glass WEB-site, but it's been too complicated, the visuals annoy me and it has more often than not taken 20 minutes or MORE to down load JUST the first page. By which time I have cooked and eaten my dinner, washed the dishes, fed the dog , sorted my washing and started the washing machine. I (and many others) pay by the minute. When I get to the screen and it's STILL down-loading, I switch OFF. That - in the end - the web-site is most interesting and might have been most rewarding, is another matter. If you haven't thought out your page so that it's on my screen within 1-2 minutes MAX, forget it! >From THEN on, make sure that all the visuals, animations, whistles & bells are OPTIONS and relevant, not something to "like it or lump it" - AND costly . "Kris" - my Computer Guru- has set out my WEB-page very thoughtfully on ALL these accounts. My front home-page has thumb-nails of some of my work with brief descriptions. The text (and thumb-nails) allows you to choose to dip in further - IF you wish!. It has a total of 5 "bells & whistles"; an animated post-box, 2 "sound-bites", an animated dog (on Toby's page) and a guest-book. My one real flamboyant gesture is Toby's page. In order to view the pictures from the trip to Chartres in France, you need to want to SEE them and you go through the "layers" of choices via my teaching activities (Don't tell me! It IS being up-dated!!) Other than one group-picture in Chartres, there are no pics of me myself; just a small selection of my work. It's THAT which matters. So I am well pleased with what Kris did for me.... we ARE adding. Feel free to visit my web-page: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northligts/index.htm I am shortly to "scrub" the Chartres pictures and replace them with pics of work done by my students.... so if any of you haven't seen them yet.... hurry up!! I believe that Kris has done a wonderful job, from ALL aspects Keep it simple! Make it EASY! Listen to my friend "Barefoot Daniel" in Canada. His advice and knowledge - as well as vision & sensitivity is superb. I would give my backteeth for him to teach me photography!!!! I DID try to visit your WEB-page. I realize also that you are just starting out. There were so many adverts, animations, whizzes and bangs, that when your pics DO get a look in, I feel they will get lost in all the rest that's going on. It took forever to down-load. There were an awful lot of animated adverts. I want to see your work and what you are capable of doing. The adverts to me - are a waste of time and a waste of expensive telephone money........ My 2 cents worth..... OFF soap-box.... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 24 19:38:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 19:02:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: non-glass....website/s Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 02:53:59 +0000 Message-ID: <199807250159.CAA14370@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Shakeel, (and ....of course... others) For a simple effective and "punchy" web-site, I think you need to keep it as simple as possible (Elisabeth is back to her BASICS again!!) I have been watching the toing-and-froing of these exhanges with interest. Mike Savad's web-page is really quite something....in many ways. Occasionally I wonder if I don't remember it more for all the "bells and whistles", than for impact of his work. (I really couldn't care less how many weird & wonderful prizes he's won for web-page design... ALL I'm interested in is his stained glass WORK... and his adventures with the aliens.... the "dimple" is rather fetching... though... ;-> ) It was with considerable trepidation I myself "launched" a web-site a few years ago now. It was even worse, because I didn't do a single thing myself. My "computer-guru" did ALL. So in some ways, I am probably the LAST one who should speak. About 2.5 years ago I tentatively asked a stained glass professional in USA to criticize and make suggestions about my web-site. We all know and are fond of this person.... ;-). THREE things came back at me a) the web-page was down-loaded very quickly b) the thumb-nails were clear and easy to use. c) The design of the web-page was clear, simple and straight-forward. Over the years I have learned more and more that THESE THREE principles are most important. I have frequently tried to visit a stained glass WEB-site, but it's been too complicated, the visuals annoy me and it has more often than not taken 20 minutes or MORE to down load JUST the first page. By which time I have cooked and eaten my dinner, washed the dishes, fed the dog , sorted my washing and started the washing machine. I (and many others) pay by the minute. When I get to the screen and it's STILL down-loading, I switch OFF. That - in the end - the web-site is most interesting and might have been most rewarding, is another matter. If you haven't thought out your page so that it's on my screen within 1-2 minutes MAX, forget it! >From THEN on, make sure that all the visuals, animations, whistles & bells are OPTIONS and relevant, not something to "like it or lump it" - AND costly . "Kris" - my Computer Guru- has set out my WEB-page very thoughtfully on ALL these accounts. My front home-page has thumb-nails of some of my work with brief descriptions. The text (and thumb-nails) allows you to choose to dip in further - IF you wish!. It has a total of 5 "bells & whistles"; an animated post-box, 2 "sound-bites", an animated dog (on Toby's page) and a guest-book. My one real flamboyant gesture is Toby's page. In order to view the pictures from the trip to Chartres in France, you need to want to SEE them and you go through the "layers" of choices via my teaching activities (Don't tell me! It IS being up-dated!!) Other than one group-picture in Chartres, there are no pics of me myself; just a small selection of my work. It's THAT which matters. So I am well pleased with what Kris did for me.... we ARE adding. Feel free to visit my web-page: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northligts/index.htm I am shortly to "scrub" the Chartres pictures and replace them with pics of work done by my students.... so if any of you haven't seen them yet.... hurry up!! I believe that Kris has done a wonderful job, from ALL aspects Keep it simple! Make it EASY! Listen to my friend "Barefoot Daniel" in Canada. His advice and knowledge - as well as vision & sensitivity is superb. I would give my backteeth for him to teach me photography!!!! I DID try to visit your WEB-page. I realize also that you are just starting out. There were so many adverts, animations, whizzes and bangs, that when your pics DO get a look in, I feel they will get lost in all the rest that's going on. It took forever to down-load. There were an awful lot of animated adverts. I want to see your work and what you are capable of doing. The adverts to me - are a waste of time and a waste of expensive telephone money........ My 2 cents worth..... OFF soap-box.... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 24 20:01:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 18:55:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: non-glass....website/s Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 02:30:10 +0000 Message-ID: <199807250153.CAA14338@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Shakeel, (and ....of course... others) For a simple effective and "punchy" web-site, I think you need to keep it as simple as possible (Elisabeth is back to her BASICS again!!) I have been watching the toing-and-froing of these exhanges with interest. Mike Savad's web-page is really quite something....in many ways. Occasionally I wonder if I don't remember it more for all the "bells and whistles", than for impact of his work. (I really couldn't care less how many weird & wonderful prizes he's won for web-page design... ALL I'm interested in is his stained glass WORK... and his adventures with the aliens.... the "dimple" is rather fetching... though... ;-> ) It was with considerable trepidation I myself "launched" a web-site a few years ago now. It was even worse, because I didn't do a single thing myself. My "computer-guru" did ALL. So in some ways, I am probably the LAST one who should speak. About 2.5 years ago I tentatively asked a stained glass professional in USA to criticize and make suggestions about my web-site. We all know and are fond of this person.... ;-). THREE things came back at me a) the web-page was down-loaded very quickly b) the thumb-nails were clear and easy to use. c) The design of the web-page was clear, simple and straight-forward. Over the years I have learned more and more that THESE THREE principles are most important. I have frequently tried to visit a stained glass WEB-site, but it's been too complicated, the visuals annoy me and it has more often than not taken 20 minutes or MORE to down load JUST the first page. By which time I have cooked and eaten my dinner, washed the dishes, fed the dog , sorted my washing and started the washing machine. I (and many others) pay by the minute. When I get to the screen and it's STILL down-loading, I switch OFF. That - in the end - the web-site is most interesting and might have been most rewarding, is another matter. If you haven't thought out your page so that it's on my screen within 1-2 minutes MAX, forget it! >From THEN on, make sure that all the visuals, animations, whistles & bells are OPTIONS and relevant, not something to "like it or lump it" - AND costly . "Kris" - my Computer Guru- has set out my WEB-page very thoughtfully on ALL these accounts. My front home-page has thumb-nails of some of my work with brief descriptions. The text (and thumb-nails) allows you to choose to dip in further - IF you wish!. It has a total of 5 "bells & whistles"; an animated post-box, 2 "sound-bites", an animated dog (on Toby's page) and a guest-book. My one real flamboyant gesture is Toby's page. In order to view the pictures from the trip to Chartres in France, you need to want to SEE them and you go through the "layers" of choices via my teaching activities (Don't tell me! It IS being up-dated!!) Other than one group-picture in Chartres, there are no pics of me myself; just a small selection of my work. It's THAT which matters. So I am well pleased with what Kris did for me.... we ARE adding. Feel free to visit my web-page: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northligts/index.htm I am shortly to "scrub" the Chartres pictures and replace them with pics of work done by my students.... so if any of you haven't seen them yet.... hurry up!! I believe that Kris has done a wonderful job, from ALL aspects Keep it simple! Make it EASY! Listen to my friend "Barefoot Daniel" in Canada. His advice and knowledge - as well as vision & sensitivity is superb. I would give my backteeth for him to teach me photography!!!! I DID try to visit your WEB-page. I realize also that you are just starting out. There were so many adverts, animations, whizzes and bangs, that when your pics DO get a look in, I feel they will get lost in all the rest that's going on. It took forever to down-load. There were an awful lot of animated adverts. I want to see your work and what you are capable of doing. The adverts to me - are a waste of time and a waste of expensive telephone money........ My 2 cents worth..... OFF soap-box.... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 24 20:11:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 19:50:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: non-glass....website/s Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 03:41:52 +0000 Message-ID: <199807250245.DAA14657@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Oh dear..... That's what one gets from trying to write e-mails and serious thoughts at 4 in the morning...... I have mis-spellt my own web-page!!!! Apologies! Correction follows: > Feel free to visit my web-page: > http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm > Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 24 21:34:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 24 Jul 1998 21:05:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Grozing Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 21:46:40 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul24.174640.0> References: <<199807250306.XAA05893@vger.vgernet.net>> Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis wrote: > > > The price difference: a grozier plier in UK: grozier > > pliers 11 US Dollars.... the smallest, cheapest possible electrical > > grinder to buy: 140 US Dollars. > > For a hobbyist!!! A lot of money!!! > > I quite agree ... and for those who push such non-necessities on > hobbyists, a lot of money, too. Income, that is. > > A grinder is for the most part unnecessary. A little practice with > the tools that have been around 700+ years to enjoy a craft and an > art that's been around that long, too, is all that's needed. > > Albert > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass but the one thing that has to be remembered is, that the people who use the grozers do mainly lead work. you don't need to be terribly neat in the glass edge finishing. because the edges are going to be covered up by the lead's edge. grozing and foil don't mix because of the razor like edges that's left behind. 700 years ago they did'nt have foil, grinders or electricity. i'm personally very glad that i have the grinder, my fingers would be unreconizable if i just grozed the glass.. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 01:19:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 00:44:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: flash.net!cat13 From: Carol To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Grozing Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 02:35:37 +0000 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980725023537.007a8e30@pop.flash.net> Precedence: bulk Hi all - I do only foil work AND I groze. (How does one conjugate grozing?) I use my grozers to break out inside curves and to break away small bits of glass after scoring when I've put my pattern pieces close together. Then I use my electric grinder. I've used a grinding stone before, but the sound of it makes my teeth hurt like fingernails on a blackboard. I don't think this has to be an either - or proposition. Both tools have their uses. -Carol Always rembember to pillage BEFORE you burn. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 01:48:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 01:10:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netbridge.net!balloch From: Shirley Balloch To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Grozing Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 00:12:11 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul24.171211.0> References: <<1998Jul24.174640.0>> Organization: Maiden Concepts Precedence: bulk > > but the one thing that has to be remembered is, that the people who use > the grozers do mainly lead work. you don't need to be terribly neat in > the glass edge finishing. because the edges are going to be covered up > by the lead's edge. grozing and foil don't mix because of the razor like > edges that's left behind. > > 700 years ago they did'nt have foil, grinders or electricity. EXACTLY!!!!!! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 01:58:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 01:18:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: re flash venting Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 21:39:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199807250439.VAA19709@baby.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk > >Hi Gerald, >Glass crystalizes at temps. around 1300'F..these crystals rise to the surface.... >Devitrifcation can happen to all glass I believe, although I was fusing 1/4 clear float awhile back and it did not seem to crystalize much. >You can use Spray A... prior to fusing, it's a lead solution and it will keep the surface nice and shiney. >Smiles, Cindy > >>i believe that flash venting is best use when firing glass like spectrum to >>avoid some problems with devitrification which occurs when the glass is held >>for too long at fusing temperature. >>if you get good result without it then don't worry ! >>Harlequin >>www.surf.to/harlquin >> >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >> > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 04:23:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 03:49:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Panel Border Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 06:47:56 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul25.104756.0> Precedence: bulk Need some advice on a job. Please Help! Client has a lead panel, measuring 26"w x42"l on which I repaired a few pieces. Had to mention the fact that the panel was made specifically for window installation (as it is completely bordered with lead and has horizontal reinforcement bars that are only adding weight and no support) and not for their intended use. They have had it hung in front of a window for a few years and it is starting to bow. They cannot have it installed in a window as the place they are moving to will not permit that. I said that it at least needs a zinc border for some added strength. They then asked me to add the border. Question: Do I need to remove the existing lead border to place the zinc around the perimeter? I do NOT want to do this. However, the 1/2" zinc I tried fitting onto the lead does not fit onto the pre-existing lead border. The expense of a wooden frame is out of the question. What alternatives do I have? Question #2: I know that it needs vertical reinforcement as opposed to horizontal reinforcement. I do NOT want to try removing the horizontal strips unless it is absolutely necessary. They are beautifully soldered to the lead. What can I do? I have Julie Sloan's book and will check it out for similar situations, but would appreciate any professional advice I may receive from fellow bungis. Thanks in advance! Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 04:51:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 04:20:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Grozing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 12:12:22 +0000 Message-ID: <199807251115.MAA18107@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hi all, Not so Mike! if the glass edge isn't neat and square, then the lead won't fit round! Your leading will become out of true with your drawing, you will end up with a final assembly that is either larger than the exact measurements you will need to follow (somewhat critical if you are fitting a panel into a cast iron frame in a stone wall...;-) ) Sharp shards still attached to the glass can cut through lead, as well as copperfoil. The lead only covers up very marginal "misdemeanors". 1/4 inch lead doesn't cover up any more than 1/4 inch copper foil, for instance. When you then consider all the various thicknesses of lead, right down to 2 mm lead (also called string lead or cabinet lead), you will see what I mean. For that sort of lead, you need to be even MORE accurate than with copperfoil (whatever thickness) - not less. You have obviously not had occasion to repair old panels yourself, loooong before the grinder was ever invented. It's quite a marvel to see how well crafted the glass is (if it's a good one). If you are ruining your fingers with grozier pliers, then you are either not holding the glass properly or not using the grozier pliers correctly... - or both. Prompt grozing is the beginning and end of first safety. Once you have put down a newly-cut piece of glass to cut the next piece, you quickly forget where the lethal sharp edge is located. You pick it up later, and WHOOOSH - it slices through your fingers like a hot knife through butter. There is another safety consideration, why you should always groze BEFORE you run to the grinder; the sharp edges fly off in great lumps once the wheel touches it - without any control.They then get imbedded in your hair, in your face on your arms, and in deed in your fingers. Having grozed the glass before, YOU are in control of what comes off and into where. A grinder is a labour-saving "final touch", it can never be a replacement for proper grozing. Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Mike Savad wrote: snip: lead work. you don't need to be terribly neat in > the glass edge finishing. because the edges are going to be covered up > by the lead's edge. grozing and foil don't mix because of the razor like > edges that's left behind. > > 700 years ago they did'nt have foil, grinders or electricity. > > i'm personally very glad that i have the grinder, my fingers would be > unreconizable if i just grozed the glass.. > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 06:58:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 06:41:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!CWWSLW From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Bracing Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 09:39:55 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul25.133955.0> Precedence: bulk <<<>>> I read Lenores post about her problem of a window bowing because it had horizontal bracing instead of vertical. Would that make a real difference? If so, how do you know when you need to go vertical and when to go horizontal? I've never thought about this. I just figured one way is as good as the other !! Susan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 07:52:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 07:20:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Grozing Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 10:09:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul25.6926.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by "Toby" & Elisabeth: >If you are ruining your fingers with grozier pliers, then you are = either not holding the glass properly or not using the grozier pliers = correctly... - or both.< Or (like me) you have used your groziers sooooo much that you've worn them out and need to purchase a new set. I mostly do copper foil work and use grozier on just about every piece I cut, since most of my patterns are 100% curvy lines. Grozing saves time at the grinder. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 08:13:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 07:33:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Grozing Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 07:32:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199807251432.HAA09103@baby.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk Progress has most definitly given us alot of good things:) I do agree with the good things that Elizabeth has said... Some folk aren't so lucky and the price of a grinder being the same as a weeks wage.....wow!!!! But I'm also glad we are so fortunate to have these things.... I love my grinder, but most of all I truely love my Sommaca belt grinder with belts 120, 180, 220, 300, 400 and cork!!! Without this I could not imagine the edge on my plates being anything worth selling!! Smiles, Cindy Who.... is also glad Mike has his fingers....he work is fabulous:) > >i'm personally very glad that i have the grinder, my fingers would be >unreconizable if i just grozed the glass.. > >---Mike Savad > >-- >Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos >http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 >6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass >Tip Pages >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 08:22:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 07:46:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Bracing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 10:43:22 +0000 Message-ID: <199807251623.MAA29637@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > I read Lenores post about her problem of a window bowing because it had > horizontal bracing instead of vertical. Would that make a real difference? If > so, how do you know when you need to go vertical and when to go horizontal? > I've never thought about this. I just figured one way is as good as the other As with most things in life, the unique aspects of any given situation dictate the solutions. Lenore's window was, as I understood her post, one that had been previously installed in window sash, but it is now being treated as an "object," not installed in sash. Horizontal support bars extend beyond the edge of a panel into the window sash, thus transferring the weight of the window to the wooden or stone frame. As she pointed out, now that the panel is no longer installed (or even to be installed), the panel itself is holding up the "support bars." Vertical support bars are a relatively new invention; sometimes called "fins," in my estimation they're a waste of time. The proper support is the time-tested and traditional one: horizontal bars extended into the frame of the surround. Offhand, I don't remember the dimensions of the window, but it seemed to me to be too small for support bars either horizontal or vertical to even be necessary, unless it's to be in a high-use, heavy stress situation, like the light of a door. But this is all just my opinion, of course. By the way, the window's not bowing because it has horizontal support bars, but because gravity's inevitable and incessent action is calling the glass toward the center of the earth. Over time, the ability of the lead came is unable to withstand that call, although the support bars would transfer that action to the surrounding frame, thus slowing it. The window's bowing because the lead is tiring, which it will do and always does within 100-150 years, unless it's that new-fangled, much-promoted "pure" lead, from which the trace elements like silver have been removed to the manufacturer's benefit and the window's detriment. In that case, figure on replacing the cames within 15-20 years. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 08:56:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 08:26:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, CWWSLW@aol.com Subject: Bracing Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:22:56, -0500 Message-ID: <199807251522.LAA11280@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >><<<>>> I read Lenores post about her problem of a window bowing because it had horizontal bracing instead of vertical. Would that make a real difference? If so, how do you know when you need to go vertical and when to go horizontal? I've never thought about this. I just figured one way is as good as the other !! Susan<< Perhaps nine out of ten SG windows that have reinforcement bars have the bars in the horizontal position. These bars are placed to prevent bowing of the window and not sagging. If I had it to do, I would remove the lead border and replace it with brass U-cap. Have little faith in lead or zinc for all but small hanging windows. Just get out the lead dikes and snip the leads where they solder to the existing border and with a bit of luck the old lead border will come off easily. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *Not a problem, I can't think of a better way to go.* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 09:56:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 09:22:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Panel Border Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 08:29:22 -0700 Message-ID: <199807251529.IAA01701@norm.island.net> Precedence: bulk HI Lenore That's awfully large for a zinc border, even 3/4" on a free hanging panel. I wouldn't consider doing what you suggest. I would have a woodworker make a mortise and tenon wood frame which will hold the window, and at the same time make groove in the necessary places for the existing reinforcement bars. In fact, I've recently had a discussion with a client about a 27 x 44" panel that will be freehung. We eventually settled on a wood frame. Cost of the frame will probably be no more than the client paying you for all the mousing around you would have to do to add the zinc. As far as getting rid of the bows first, check the bungi archives, too. I think there was a discussion on removing bows from windows about a year ago. Good luck Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative >Need some advice on a job. Please Help! >Client has a lead panel, measuring 26"w x42"l on which I repaired a few >pieces. Had to mention the fact that the panel was made specifically for >window installation (as it is completely bordered with lead and has horizontal >reinforcement bars that are only adding weight and no support) and not for >their intended use. They have had it hung in front of a window for a few >years and it is starting to bow. They cannot have it installed in a window as >the place they are moving to will not permit that. I said that it at least >needs a zinc border for some added strength. They then asked me to add the >border. > >Question: Do I need to remove the existing lead border to place the zinc >around the perimeter? I do NOT want to do this. However, the 1/2" zinc I >tried fitting onto the lead does not fit onto the pre-existing lead border. >The expense of a wooden frame is out of the question. What alternatives do I >have? >Question #2: I know that it needs vertical reinforcement as opposed to >horizontal reinforcement. I do NOT want to try removing the horizontal strips >unless it is absolutely necessary. They are beautifully soldered to the lead. >What can I do? > >I have Julie Sloan's book and will check it out for similar situations, but >would appreciate any professional advice I may receive from fellow bungis. > >Thanks in advance! > >Lenore >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 10:11:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 09:23:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!eldondo1 From: eldondo1@juno.com To: alewis@vgernet.net Subject: Re: Bracing Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:03:17 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul25.6317.0> References: <<199807251623.MAA29637@vger.vgernet.net>> Precedence: bulk I agree completely with Albert,as I usually do, Make sure the HORIZONTAL rebars extend into the wood or whatever material is in the frame.Without this,the rebar only adds to the weight of the lead and will help pull the piece down. Don On Sat, 25 Jul 1998 10:43:22 +0000 "Albert Lewis" writes: > >> I read Lenores post about her problem of a window bowing because >it had >> horizontal bracing instead of vertical. Would that make a real >difference? If >> so, how do you know when you need to go vertical and when to go >horizontal? >> I've never thought about this. I just figured one way is as good as >the other > >As with most things in life, the unique aspects of any given >situation dictate the solutions. Lenore's window was, as I understood >her post, one that had been previously installed in window sash, but >it is now being treated as an "object," not installed in sash. > >Horizontal support bars extend beyond the edge of a panel into the >window sash, thus transferring the weight of the window to the wooden >or stone frame. As she pointed out, now that the panel is no longer >installed (or even to be installed), the panel itself is holding up >the "support bars." > >Vertical support bars are a relatively new invention; sometimes >called "fins," in my estimation they're a waste of time. The proper >support is the time-tested and traditional one: horizontal bars >extended into the frame of the surround. > >Offhand, I don't remember the dimensions of the window, but it seemed >to me to be too small for support bars either horizontal or vertical >to even be necessary, unless it's to be in a high-use, heavy stress >situation, like the light of a door. > >But this is all just my opinion, of course. > >By the way, the window's not bowing because it has horizontal support >bars, but because gravity's inevitable and incessent action is >calling the glass toward the center of the earth. Over time, the >ability of the lead came is unable to withstand that call, although >the support bars would transfer that action to the surrounding frame, >thus slowing it. The window's bowing because the lead is tiring, >which it will do and always does within 100-150 years, unless it's >that new-fangled, much-promoted "pure" lead, from which the trace >elements like silver have been removed to the manufacturer's benefit >and the window's detriment. In that case, figure on replacing the >cames within 15-20 years. > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 11:05:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 10:23:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!HiimLaura From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Grozing Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 13:22:01 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul25.17221.0> Precedence: bulk Hello all! : There is a certain sense of enlightenment (in place of a better term), that is expierenced when one uses more traditional methods of crafting. This, for me, adds charm and real meaning to the expierence of working glass. I feel (and this is just my humble opinion), that a true craftsman has not only the interest and love for the craft to learn all methods possible (especially traditional methods - even if those methods seem antiquated to some), but also had the patience and focus to learn and perfect those techniques. Now, I am in no way any glass goddess or anything, but feel that when one expierences this broader interest in glass, the hobbiest then begins to become a true craftsman. Laura ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 11:18:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 10:38:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: American Agates/Geodes for sale Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 13:23:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul25.92354.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all. I have 200 agates and geodes for sale. If interested, please send me a private email and I'll email you the details such as size, color, crystaline structures, prices, etc. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 12:57:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 12:46:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Grozing Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 15:44:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul25.114419.0> Precedence: bulk And not to mention that grozing = is much faster than grinding any day! For those of us who make 100% of their income through the sale of stained glass, fast is an important part of the equation. Oh, to be a hobbyist and be able to = spend months perfecting one stained glass window! I often say that hobbyists ought to be doing the very best work out there because they have the time to devote to it. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 13:08:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 12:46:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Bracing Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 15:44:06 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul25.11446.0> Precedence: bulk You're so right, Albert, windows do tend to be over-built these days, not just with bracing bars, but with interior reinforcing as well. Often not necessary. And, an added comment about the use of zinc - yes, it may be = more rigid than lead, but the solder joints tend to be weaker than with lead - = something to keep in mind if the weight of the panel is an issue. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 13:21:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 12:47:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: SGAA Manual Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 15:43:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul25.114359.0> Precedence: bulk Hi all- Recently, someone inquired about the Stained Glass Assoc. of America Reference and Technical Manual and, out of curiousity, I tried to get my hands on a copy through inter-library loan. A fellow bungian also mentioned obtaining a copy this way. Unfortunately, my library had no luck finding a copy. Does anyone know a library that stocks a copy? I could then pass that info on to my library. Thanks in advance - I'd really like to see if this monster is worth $250! Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 13:26:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 13:12:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Grozing Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 16:11:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199807252011.QAA25157@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk >Amen to that!!!!! > >I knew she was out there somewhere!!! > >hi dani!!! > >pj > > >>And not to mention that grozing = >> >>is much faster than grinding any >>day! For those of us who make >>100% of their income through the >>sale of stained glass, fast is an >>important part of the equation. Oh, >>to be a hobbyist and be able to = >> >>spend months perfecting one >>stained glass window! I often say >>that hobbyists ought to be doing >>the very best work out there because >>they have the time to devote to it. >> >>Best regards, >> >>Dani Greer >>Greer Gallery & Studios >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >> > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 13:37:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 12:47:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Grozing Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 15:44:13 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul25.114413.0> Precedence: bulk Well, Elisabeth, you can well imagine that we are firm believers in doing things the traditional way! You don't need expensive gadgets to make stained glass. I cringe = every time I read that someone is buying a saw so they can cut glass better, easier, and faster. I cringe = even more when I think of all the windows out there that will have major stress fractures because the glass was cut in ways that it was never meant to be cut! If you can't cut that shape by hand, don't do = it with a saw... you're begging for = trouble. (I'm talking about foil and lead work here, not fusing.) Have respect for your medium and appreciate its limitations. It's exactly those limitations that give it it's character and particular charm. = Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 13:44:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 12:48:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Grozing Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 15:45:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul25.114554.0> References: <<199807251115.MAA18107@saturn.nildram.co.uk>> Precedence: bulk Toby wrote: > > Hi all, > > Not so Mike! > if the glass edge isn't neat and square, then the lead won't fit > round! Your leading will become out of true with your drawing, you > will end up with a final assembly that is either larger than the > exact measurements you will need to follow (somewhat critical if you > are fitting a panel into a cast iron frame in a stone wall...;-) ) > Sharp shards still attached to the glass can cut through lead, as > well as copperfoil. The lead only covers up very marginal > "misdemeanors". 1/4 inch lead doesn't cover up any more than 1/4 inch > copper foil, for instance. When you then consider all the various > thicknesses of lead, right down to 2 mm lead (also called string lead > or cabinet lead), you will see what I mean. For that sort of lead, > you need to be even MORE accurate than with copperfoil (whatever > thickness) - not less. > > You have obviously not had occasion to repair old panels yourself, > loooong before the grinder was ever invented. It's quite a marvel to > see how well crafted the glass is (if it's a good one). > > If you are ruining your fingers with grozier pliers, then you are > either not holding the glass properly or not using the grozier pliers > correctly... - or both. > Prompt grozing is the beginning and end of first safety. Once you > have put down a newly-cut piece of glass to cut the next piece, you > quickly forget where the lethal sharp edge is located. You pick it up > later, and WHOOOSH - it slices through your fingers like a hot knife > through butter. > There is another safety consideration, why you should always groze > BEFORE you run to the grinder; the sharp edges fly off in great lumps > once the wheel touches it - without any control.They then get > imbedded in your hair, in your face on your arms, and in deed in your > fingers. Having grozed the glass before, YOU are in control of what > comes off and into where. > A grinder is a labour-saving "final touch", it can never be a > replacement for proper grozing. > Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK > > Mike Savad wrote: > snip: lead work. you don't need to be terribly neat in > > the glass edge finishing. because the edges are going to be covered up > > by the lead's edge. grozing and foil don't mix because of the razor like > > edges that's left behind. > > > > 700 years ago they did'nt have foil, grinders or electricity. > > > > i'm personally very glad that i have the grinder, my fingers would be > > unreconizable if i just grozed the glass.. > > > ---- > As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" > North Lights Stained Glass - homepage > http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm > ---- > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass here's the basic thing: a grozed edge, though free of large jagged edges, still has small hills on it. the overall shape of the glass is there. lead is a bit more forgiving, the heart of the came can absorb some of the lumpiness. and the "leaf" of the came can hide other spots. foil the glass looks best when the pieces are tightly together. you'll know almost immediately, because the bumps on the grozed edges will push the project out. only a ground edge would look best... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 13:59:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 13:05:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Grozing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 16:10:09 +0000 Message-ID: <199807252151.RAA11185@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > but you have to remember, is copper foil was'nt sticky. so glass contact > was less. plus the copper was a bit thicker (i would imagine), so the > glass won't cut through.. if they had grinders then, even gas powered > ones tiffany would have probably used it. Yes, one might imagine that the copper sheeting was thicker, but it wasn't. Those who restore Tiffany Studios' work don't see any appreciable difference at all between foil of Tiffany's time and that available today. I don't think anyone's bothered to measure the difference, if any, but an experienced craftsman is going to notice something like that right away. As for its stickiness, of course it was sticky. They didn't use pre-packaged coils of pre-cut foil in different dimensions bought in plastic packaging at the local stained glass retail store, of course. They made their own. Until the beginning of the current hobby craze for stained glass, studios bought sheet copper in the proper thickness and cut the strips out themselves to the width they needed. Beeswax was applied to one side and that's what made the copper foil sticky. Some studios still do that today. It's the classic method. As soon as the work is assembled and the copper foil soldered together and its surface floated with solder, the strength of the work derives from the pretty-much-monolithic nature of the soldered metal, not from any adhesive contact between the copper foil and the glass. The adhesive is merely a convenience in assembly. As for whether Tiffany would have used gas-powered grinders if they'd been available, I really can't say, since they not only didn't exist, they wouldn't even have been considered necessary. Remember, too, that there were about 200 people in his employ who built Tiffany Studios' lamps and windows. Mr. Tiffany himself never built a thing. Nada. Well, okay. He's *rumored to have built at least *one panel, but his job was running the company, schmoozing the rich customers, and hanging out at the Club, smoking stogies and spending money himself. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 13:59:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 13:20:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: waterw.com!artglass From: artglass@waterw.com (pj friend) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Grozing Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 16:20:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199807252020.QAA25393@water.waterw.com> Precedence: bulk >In my opinion if you have learned to cut correctly and use grozers you really don't need all those tools. I have never in all my years had the need for a band sander. Even when doing pate de verre!!!! And I don't think I will repeat Mike's comment to Paul about because you are working with lead you don't have to be terribly neat. Wow do you have that one wrong Mike! Isn't the saying the" one that dies with the most toys wins"? Although I must admit we do own a rebar bender. my best, pj > >A grinder is for the most part unnecessary. A little practice with >the tools that have been around 700+ years to enjoy a craft and an >art that's been around that long, too, is all that's needed. > >Albert >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 15:06:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 14:24:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Grozing Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:23:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul25.132310.0> References: <<199807252020.QAA25393@water.waterw.com>> Precedence: bulk pj friend wrote: > > >In my opinion if you have learned to cut correctly and use grozers > you really don't need all those tools. I have never in all my years > had the need for a band sander. Even when doing pate de verre!!!! > > And I don't think I will repeat Mike's comment to Paul about because you are > working > with lead you don't have to be terribly neat. Wow do you have that one > wrong Mike! > > Isn't the saying the" one that dies with the most toys wins"? > > Although I must admit we do own a rebar bender. > > my best, > pj > > > >A grinder is for the most part unnecessary. A little practice with > >the tools that have been around 700+ years to enjoy a craft and an > >art that's been around that long, too, is all that's needed. > > > >Albert > >---- > >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it all depends on what kinds of projects your making. i got a grinder mainly because i almost cut my finger off do to a sharp edge. once i got the grinder my work look more professional over night. i personally like my grinder. other's may not, though i count it as an essential tool. when doing 3-d work, it's not that needed. it all depends on what kinds of cut's you do. but the grinder is not a replacement for cutting.... the grinder is only meant to remove the razors, jaggies, and lumps, along with some fine tuning or roughing up. if someone ise grinding off more than 3/32-1/8" of glass, there depending on it too much. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 15:16:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 14:40:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Grozing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:44:54 +0000 Message-ID: <199807252325.TAA14226@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > glass was cut in ways that it was > never meant to be cut! ... Have > respect for your medium and appreciate > its limitations. Hear, hear! Well said, well said. A ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 15:25:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 14:40:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Grozing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:44:54 +0000 Message-ID: <199807252325.TAA14230@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > here's the basic thing: > > a grozed edge, though free of large jagged edges, still has small hills > on it. the overall shape of the glass is there. lead is a bit more > forgiving, the heart of the came can absorb some of the lumpiness. and > the "leaf" of the came can hide other spots. Well, the *really basic thing is accurate cutting. If you take the time to do that first, you can pretty much dispense with the grozier *and any need for grinding. Just run the cut edges against each other and you have a fairly safe edge without burrs. A grinder makes it possible to avoid developing the glass-cutting skills that any long-time craftsperson would have. Certainly, to work at Tiffanny Studios, if that is the measure, one would have to be able to cut glass both competently and accurately. A ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 15:30:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 15:18:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hotmail.com!scottjf55 From: "scott floyd" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re;grozing Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 15:16:59 PDT Message-ID: <1998Jul25.221659.0> Precedence: bulk I hace learned that if you are going to use grozing as your "grinding" method then you should cut the pieces a tad small. This allows you to shape the lead around the glass without it not growing on you. I am at home recovering from a wisdom tooth extraction so I enjoy reading everybodies comments and can't wait to learn more, you guys are great! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 15:42:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 15:20:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: wcnet.net!fibers From: fibers@wcnet.net (fibers) To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: What would you buy? Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:23:03 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul25.12233.0> Precedence: bulk We live a long way from any glass suppliers so I must depend on mail order. I am planning a trip to a glass shop and I'll have $500.00 to spend. on tools. There has been alot of talk lately about spending money on tools that aren't really necessary with a little practice. I have a grinder and the basic hand tools, breakers, grozers, and lead cutters. If you had that budget, what would buy? We have a cabinet door manuf. company and I plan to build stained glass inserts for these doors. Some of the things I'm considering are: came bender, ring saw, morton system, and brass came cutter. Any other suggestions? TIA (thanks in advance) Nelda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 15:53:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 14:59:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Grozing Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:58:12 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul25.215812.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 7/25/98 3:58:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, GreerStudios@compuserve.com writes: << to be a hobbyist and be able to spend months perfecting one stained glass window! I often say that hobbyists ought to be doing the very best work out there because they have the time to devote to it. >> As a hobbyist with a full time 50 hour a week job, I certainly don't have the time to devote to my addiction. But I make the time whenever I can, usually at the expense of housework, cooking and social life. However, I have to agree that I have often thought that, even though I love the hobby, if I were to have to do it every day I would eventually burn out and no longer enjoy it quite as much. And my work is far from perfect - but I'm working on it! ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 16:32:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 16:19:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Astarzia From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Good Advice for a Newbie Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 19:14:35 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul25.231435.0> Precedence: bulk Hello All... I am new to this discussion list and to the craft of stained glass. I have enjoyed reading the messages and hope that you will be able to offer some of your experience, insight, opinions, wisdom, and general advice to me! First, I am in the process of fixing up the back room of our garage as a stained glass studio. My fiance built a work bench and plans to make half of it a light table. Is there a specific thickness or type of glass that should be used for a light table? Are there some lights that are better than others? how about the reflectors that go between the lights and the glass? Second, what type of surface is best for the top of the actual work surface for the bench? The benches where I have been taking classes use a sheet of linoleum upside down. The back of the linoleum is soft and forgiving and seems to grab the glass so that it doesn't slide around. Does anyone have any other suggestions? Lastly (for now), I have read the discussion regarding grinders vs. groziers, etc. I have decided that I am going to buy a grinder, but would like to avoid spending money on a grinder that I will be unhappy with later. The mail order catalog that I have lists two grinders that I am interested in. The first is the Inland Wizard which has a 1" and 1/4" grinding bit, invisible sponge cooling system, second story worksurface, 5bit serts, splash guard, 30/60/90 square, 1/8 horsepower 3500 RPM motor. The price is $129.95. The second grinder is called the Inland Twinspin which is supposed to be a combination of two grinders; a full featured Impulse grinder and a new disc-type grinder. It has two heads; a 1" and 1/4" and the new touch-top surface (the grinder turns on as soon as you put a piece of glass on the surface). It says that in a matter of seconds you can convert it to a disc grinder for grinding straight edges on the 5" wheel. The price is $159.95. Being new to the craft, I have two questions. What is the second story worksurface used for and is the disc grinder mostly used for grinding straight edges or is it good for something else as well? Does anyone have either of these two grinders? I have noticed some people talking about the cooling systems not working well on their grinders and taping water pics to remedy the problem. I would like to get a good grinder that I won't have to worry about for awhile. Please be kind..... *Astarzia* Astarzia@aol.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 17:05:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 16:24:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: fibers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: What would you buy? Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 19:23:13 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul25.152313.0> References: <<1998Jul25.12233.0>> Precedence: bulk fibers wrote: > > We live a long way from any glass suppliers so I must depend on mail > order. I am planning a trip to a glass shop and I'll have $500.00 to > spend. on tools. There has been alot of talk lately about spending money > on tools that aren't really necessary with a little practice. I have a > grinder and the basic hand tools, breakers, grozers, and lead cutters. > If you had that budget, what would buy? > We have a cabinet door manuf. company and I plan to build stained glass > inserts for these doors. > Some of the things I'm considering are: came bender, ring saw, morton > system, and brass came cutter. > Any other suggestions? > TIA (thanks in advance) > Nelda > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass sure, get a circle cutter (called a lens cutter) (providing ou do a bunch of circles). a strip cutter, essential for straight cuts and lots of them. a score board for repetative cuts. morton strips are great for keeping panels square. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 17:16:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 16:38:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "fibers" , "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: MORTON Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 16:38:27 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul25.93827.0> Precedence: bulk If you intend to do a lot of receptive straight line cutting, and you are cutting rectangles for cabinet doors use the MORTON PTBL GLASS SHOP, get a BIG and SMALL size board and 2 sets of fixtures. You can strip with one and set it for a specific width, use the other one for the rest of the cutting..... NOTE:::::::::Fluorescent grid covers (usually 24x48) also can be used with the Morton fixtures (CHECK the size of the grids), if so get a few extra sets of fixtures.......leave one set permanently for the most used width, set up spacers to use ONLY on that one to get other sizes and a few more boards (grids) for the other cutting. IMHO, I can cut any PRACTICAL sizes and shapes as well as a saw and in most cases faster......EXOTIC, WIERD, FLASHY cuts are fine, but subject to breaking, hard to foil or came and over-all rather impractical. enjoy,H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 17:35:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 16:59:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Astarzia@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Good Advice for a Newbie Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 19:55:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul25.155528.0> References: <<1998Jul25.231435.0>> Precedence: bulk Astarzia@aol.com wrote: > > Hello All... > > I am new to this discussion list and to the craft of stained glass. I have > enjoyed > reading the messages and hope that you will be able to offer some of your > experience, insight, opinions, wisdom, and general advice to me! > > First, I am in the process of fixing up the back room of our garage as a > stained glass studio. My fiance built a work bench and plans to make half > of it a light table. Is there a specific thickness or type of glass that > should be > used for a light table? Are there some lights that are better than others? > how > about the reflectors that go between the lights and the glass? > > Second, what type of surface is best for the top of the actual work surface > for the bench? The benches where I have been taking classes use a sheet > of linoleum upside down. The back of the linoleum is soft and forgiving and > seems to grab the glass so that it doesn't slide around. Does anyone have > any other suggestions? > > Lastly (for now), I have read the discussion regarding grinders vs. groziers, > etc. I have decided that I am going to buy a grinder, but would like to avoid > spending > money on a grinder that I will be unhappy with later. The mail order catalog > that > I have lists two grinders that I am interested in. The first is the Inland > Wizard > which has a 1" and 1/4" grinding bit, invisible sponge cooling system, second > story > worksurface, 5bit serts, splash guard, 30/60/90 square, 1/8 horsepower 3500 > RPM motor. The price is $129.95. The second grinder is called the Inland > Twinspin > which is supposed to be a combination of two grinders; a full featured Impulse > grinder and a new disc-type grinder. It has two heads; a 1" and 1/4" and the > new touch-top surface (the grinder turns on as soon as you put a piece of > glass on the surface). It says that in a matter of seconds you can convert it > to a disc grinder for grinding straight edges on the 5" wheel. The price is > $159.95. > > Being new to the craft, I have two questions. What is the second story > worksurface used for and is the disc grinder mostly used for grinding straight > edges or is it good for something else as well? Does anyone have either of > these two grinders? I have noticed some people talking about the cooling > systems not working well on their grinders and taping water pics to remedy the > problem. I would like to get a good grinder that I won't have to worry about > for awhile. > > Please be kind..... > > *Astarzia* > > Astarzia@aol.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass let's see, i have work surface info on my page http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/ go with the inland wizard, i have one and it never broke. if you can get the pop top kind, it's easier to clean. don't get the touch top kind, it breaks to easily. grinders are'nt meant for straight cuts, only curves. the second story is meant for the 1/8" - 3/8" bits. i personally never used used it though, to much of a hassle. the water problem is really only for the upper surface. they make some kind of super cool tower, never used it though. the lower section, you should'nt have a problem as long as you fill the grinder with water. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 17:51:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:07:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Grozing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 01:03:06 +0000 Message-ID: <199807260006.BAA26619@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hi all, I'm enjoying this debate.... it takes my mind off funerals..... Allowing for the time difference between you 'n us Across The Pond being about 7-10 hours, I really kind of enjoyed seeing the many little "clouds of steam" puffing up on a simple subject like "grozing" (.... at a week-end TOO!!) ;-) Let's get even MORE "basic".... The lumps and bumps (Mike calls them "hills) of roughly trimmed ( barely "grozed") glass MIGHT be hidden when using 1/2" lead upwards. Once you get down to 1/4" lead you need to start to take care. The "hills" will show up EITHER as great big holes between the lead and the glass (which absoluteley CANNOT be soldered over (in LEAD, O N L Y the joints can be soldered!!!) OR if the lead covers up a "valley" in the "hill" (to use Mike's analogy), the lead line get "wiggly". Kind of embarrassing when you are trying to obtain straight lines (as in 2 - 3 -, 4 - 5 foot worth of diamond shapes etc). "Won't the cement cover up my HOLES?", my students frequently ask me. Yes it will for a day or so. But cement is cement and is not meant to cover up holes. Mike, if you have a "hill", you will also have a "valley".... in lead-terms that - almost by definition means a HOLE. The size of the hole increases with the decreasing size of lead used.. With copperfoil, the entire "seam" is soldered; with lead ONLY the joints. With copper foil an extra little "blob" to cover up a "hole", can be put down to "inexperienced" soldering. With lead, you can't add solder along a length of lead , This just is NOT possible. The narrower the lead, the more critical is the accuracy of your glass-cutting. As I mentioned in an earlier posting, the 2 mm string/cabinet lead is the ultimate challenge for a glass craftsman. With copperfoil you can solder and resolder and go over time and time again with your iron, until you get it right. That is something you just cannot do with lead-work. You need to get your soldering right the first time round.. Which makes accurate glass-cutting SO important. The more you solder, the more you melt the lead as well. Mike, you are mistaken, if you think that lead-work needs less exacting or accurate glass cutting or glass "grinding". Unevenness is small copperfoil pieces is more acceptable than "wiggly" lines in larger lead-pieces. The reaction of my students is quite interesting - when I show them "ready-designed" "first" panels for them to do. They invariably pick the ones with "straight" lines, believing them to be easier. In copperfoil, the solderline is visually more of a colour-separator; in lead-work, however, it is a structural design line. The lead-line in a geometrical design, HAS to be absolutely S T R A I G H T. On the accuracy of the lead-line, hangs the entire design. The design can only be right, if the glass is cut, trimmed and grozed correctly. There simply cannot BE any "hills" or "valleys". With lead, you just cannot cover them up...... It's very obvious, Mike, that you have not a great deal of experience of lead-work. In copper-foil, the odd unevenness lends "charm" to the piece and makes the piece plausibly individually "hand-made". When you work in lead, , the lead-lines take over. The dominate the eye and how your eye follow through the piece of work. The leadlines create harmony or distortion. The lead-lines are the outlines and "statement" of your ideas. Within those lines you create emotion & colours.They do not allow for lumps, bumps, "hills" or "valleys". OK, folks.... I am going for it here..... Working in lead is not dissimilar from writing an Elizabethan Sonnet. It's got a rigid, exacting framework and absolulety every line counts and has a purpose. In order to be a true Sonnet, it has to follow certain Rules. The secret is, to make it SOOOooooo fluid, so easy, that all the rules just cannot be detected. You are left with wonderment and amazement. Only when you start to analyze the details, do you recognize the rigid structure, the elegance, the grace and the light touch that made you FORGET it.... Grozing your pieces of glass is fundamental to creating the perfect Sonnet in Glass.......... ...Oh chucks.... I can see it coming..... Elizabeth (ducking) 'n Toby (taking up Defensive position) in UK Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK > here's the basic thing: > > a grozed edge, though free of large jagged edges, still has small hills > on it. the overall shape of the glass is there. lead is a bit more > forgiving, the heart of the came can absorb some of the lumpiness. and > the "leaf" of the came can hide other spots. > > foil the glass looks best when the pieces are tightly together. you'll > know almost immediately, because the bumps on the grozed edges will push > the project out. only a ground edge would look best... > > > ---Mike Savad > > -- > Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 > 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass > Tip Pages > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 18:03:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:33:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, fibers@wcnet.net Subject: What would you buy? Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:29:53, -0500 Message-ID: <199807260029.UAA20754@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>We have a cabinet door manuf. company and I plan to build stained glass inserts for these doors. Some of the things I'm considering are: came bender, ring saw, morton system, and brass came cutter. Any other suggestions? TIA (thanks in advance) Nelda<< You have no need for a came bender. They are good for making circles but are a poor choice for forming brass came to complex shapes. Annealing brass came is the trick that allows it to be SOMEWHAT formed to gentle curves. Don't waste your money on a $300.00 ring saw. They cut a wide path and are rarely necessary. The Morton large work surface and workshop are excellent investments and should total about $90.00. By brass came cutter I believe you mean a chop saw. The Gryphon came saw (about $140.00) is perhaps the best product on the market. I have yet to meet someone who likes any of the several table saws sold for this purpose. Yes, buy a grouser. Buy a Fan Out breaker-grouser for about $14.00. IMO they are the best combo around. If you are not buying wholesale you are missing the boat. Your resale license for the cabinet shop should be good. Do not get sucked into anything that has not been on the market for three years. If you follow this advice you will save a lot of money in the long run and miss out on very little. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *Thanks, America.* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 18:05:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:08:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Bracing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 01:03:06 +0000 Message-ID: <199807260006.BAA26616@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hang on a minute here!!! I have wanted to respond to Lenore's problem for a day or two.... Hesitation in doing it, ....how to couch bad news palatbly..... "Vertical" reinforcements - Albert - are not THAT new, nor necessarily a categoric waste of time - as you put it. However, given the dimensions, this does not apply in this instance! Given the dimensions of the panel - however - horizontal s would appear more appropriate. So Lenore - I think you're OK on this level. The "bad" news is, that the lead edging DOES need to come off. (judging from the description....) I have never been terribly comfortable with replacement ZINK. I would be far happier in replacing lead with lead..... maybe the type of edging lead that has a core in the middle for inserting a steel re-inforcement bar. As regards the horizontal re-bars (that Lenore admits no longer serve their purpose - however prettily and beautifully soldered on), I would remove these. The panel has now been changed in it its purpose, therefore its Structure must also be modified to handle and endure its new role. However, I would document quite closely and in as great detail as possibly exactly what I have found and exactly the modifications I have done to & for the customer; so that at any time in the future, either myself or another craftsman can pick up and remodel the panel to yet a different role - should the need occur, ....be it in 10/20/50 or 100 years time..... The measurements were - if I recall... 26 inches WIDE (<>) by about 42 inches high. The re-infocements that Lenore has observed are therefore quite logical and sound. How many re-inforcement bars are currently in situ. ?? What are they?? How are they made??? How long are they??? How thick are they??? What is the material that they are made of?? Are they supposed to slot into somewhere else - as well?? Where exactly are they fixed / soldered across the 26 inch width of the panel??? How many?? What is the design itself?? According to text-book theory, there should only be a need for ONE. I suppose the design,size of glass pieces in the design, size of lead, the location and the usage might have persuaded the original Artist to play it safe.... Traditionally, re-inforcement bars are slotted in to the wooden (or stone, or iron ) frame. To stiffen it up even more, you will now need to attach the re-bars to the panel edge. As a free object, you will need to re-examine where it is likely to bow again. That will partl;y depend on its design and execution.... Let me know.... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK ....I quote Albert .... with reservations: > As with most things in life, the unique aspects of any given > situation dictate the solutions. Lenore's window was, as I understood > her post, one that had been previously installed in window sash, but > it is now being treated as an "object," not installed in sash. > > Horizontal support bars extend beyond the edge of a panel into the > window sash, thus transferring the weight of the window to the wooden > or stone frame. As she pointed out, now that the panel is no longer > installed (or even to be installed), the panel itself is holding up > the "support bars." > > Vertical support bars are a relatively new invention; sometimes > called "fins," in my estimation they're a waste of time. The proper > support is the time-tested and traditional one: horizontal bars > extended into the frame of the surround. > > Offhand, I don't remember the dimensions of the window, but it seemed > to me to be too small for support bars either horizontal or vertical > to even be necessary, unless it's to be in a high-use, heavy stress > situation, like the light of a door. > > But this is all just my opinion, of course. > > By the way, the window's not bowing because it has horizontal support > bars, but because gravity's inevitable and incessent action is > calling the glass toward the center of the earth. Over time, the > ability of the lead came is unable to withstand that call, although > the support bars would transfer that action to the surrounding frame, > thus slowing it. The window's bowing because the lead is tiring, > which it will do and always does within 100-150 years, unless it's > that new-fangled, much-promoted "pure" lead, from which the trace > elements like silver have been removed to the manufacturer's benefit > and the window's detriment. In that case, figure on replacing the > cames within 15-20 years. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 18:30:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:08:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Grozing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 01:03:06 +0000 Message-ID: <199807260006.BAA26607@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Ah yes Christie, ...Been there, Done that !! (T-shirt didn't fit!!) After 20 years (...really...???????????? Good God!!!), I'm through my 3rd pair.... Last time I invested an EXTRA 3 Dollars in a hard steel construction of the pliers. Well worth it!! My students reek havoc with my tools as well, so I find that I have to keep a "sanctum" set of tools in my work-shop The serration - over years - does "flatten" out a bit...... Keep Grozing!! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Christie wrote: > Message text written by "Toby" & Elisabeth: > >If you are ruining your fingers with grozier pliers, then you are = > > either not holding the glass properly or not using the grozier pliers = > > correctly... - or both.< > > Or (like me) you have used your groziers sooooo much that you've > worn them out and need to purchase a new set. I mostly do copper > foil work and use grozier on just about every piece I cut, since most > of my patterns are 100% curvy lines. Grozing saves time at the grinder. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 18:30:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:18:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: What would you buy? Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:16:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul25.161641.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Nelda- I'd buy glass! Sounds like you = have the basic tools, so spend it on materials to make panels. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & STudios http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 18:42:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:44:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Grozing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 01:39:22 +0000 Message-ID: <199807260042.BAA28613@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hey "Bunker" Friend Albert... Now we are REALLY going back....! But you are right - of course... I simply didn't DARE to mention this . But of course, the old, grizzly, white-haired Master Craftsmen; reticent, secretive and bloody-minded in their cooped up little Guilds and Secrets, niggling away in their dark little corners in UK and Europe. They would rather die on the Medevial Burning Stake then bringing on a new generation of stained glass enthusiasts... To make them part with a little "nugget" is like drawing blood.... But I too have caught the little wizzened old Craftsman producing a PERFECT grozed edge by just drawing one piece of glass against another.... You bet!! I niggle THEM too..... In a month of Sundays.... I couldn't do it.... I have succumbed to the 20th Century invention of the grozier pliers........ Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Albert wrote: ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 19:06:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:45:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Grozing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 01:39:22 +0000 Message-ID: <199807260042.BAA28610@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Mike, this is where I disagree with you, The "razors, jaggies and lumps" are removed primarily by grozing first. THEN as a final "flourish" you grind, that's fine. I said before.... if you injured yourself... you did so because you didn't hold the glass correctly or because you did not / do not know how to use / or the real purpose of a grozier pliers.... Over 10 years of teaching, no student of mine has sustained ANY kind of injury other than a very minor "nick". And THAT was... when I had my back turned...... KNOW your tools! Know how to use them!! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Mike Savad wrote: > the grinder is only meant to remove the razors, jaggies, and lumps, ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 19:10:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:52:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: Astarzia@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Subject: Good Advice for a Newbie Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:49:22, -0500 Message-ID: <199807260049.UAA21478@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>First, I am in the process of fixing up the back room of our garage as a stained glass studio. My fiance built a work bench and plans to make half of it a light table. Is there a specific thickness or type of glass that should be used for a light table? Are there some lights that are better than others? how about the reflectors that go between the lights and the glass? Second, what type of surface is best for the top of the actual work surface for the bench? The benches where I have been taking classes use a sheet of linoleum upside down. The back of the linoleum is soft and forgiving and seems to grab the glass so that it doesn't slide around. Does anyone have any other suggestions? Lastly (for now), I have read the discussion regarding grinders vs. groziers, etc. I have decided that I am going to buy a grinder, but would like to avoid spending money on a grinder that I will be unhappy with later. The mail order catalog that I have lists two grinders that I am interested in. The first is the Inland Wizard which has a 1" and 1/4" grinding bit, invisible sponge cooling system, second story worksurface, 5bit serts, splash guard, 30/60/90 square, 1/8 horsepower 3500 RPM motor. The price is $129.95. The second grinder is called the Inland Twinspin which is supposed to be a combination of two grinders; a full featured Impulse grinder and a new disc-type grinder. It has two heads; a 1" and 1/4" and the new touch-top surface (the grinder turns on as soon as you put a piece of glass on the surface). It says that in a matter of seconds you can convert it to a disc grinder for grinding straight edges on the 5" wheel. The price is $159.95. Being new to the craft, I have two questions. What is the second story worksurface used for and is the disc grinder mostly used for grinding straight edges or is it good for something else as well? Does anyone have either of these two grinders? I have noticed some people talking about the cooling systems not working well on their grinders and taping water pics to remedy the problem. I would like to get a good grinder that I won't have to worry about for awhile. Please be kind..... *Astarzia*<< You can inset a large Morton work surface for a light table. The backside is intended for this purpose. A 30 watt florcessent should do the trick for lighting. !/4" glass frosted on the underside works well also. I like my 3/4" plywood work surfaces. I made them eleven years ago and they are going strong. The Wizard is a good grinder. I like the Glasstars a bit better. Think the twinspin is a waste of time and money. The second story work surface is used to raise the work surface to the height of the 1/4 and 1/8" bits. My Glasstar All-Star (top of the line) lubricates well as will most others with proper maintance. A have tried to be kind but am in a hurry, Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *Thanks, America.* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 20:19:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 19:35:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bio #39 Diane Russell Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 21:32:01 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul25.16321.0> Precedence: bulk Hello, My name is Dianne Russell. I'm 37, married 4 years and live in Williamsburg, VA but next month we are moving to Jacksonville, FL. My husband, Paul, retires in June from the Navy after 20 years. I've been doing stained glass, on and off, about 3 years. I've haven't done many big panels, mostly gifts for Christmas and birthdays. I enjoy it but don't have much time for it unless I have a certain project in mind. Boxes are my favorites. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 20:40:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 19:38:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Bio #40 Lynn Carrick (Ree) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 21:36:32 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul25.163632.0> Precedence: bulk I'm new to the list. I started doing stained glass and sandblasting about 8 years ago when I lived in New Orleans, Louisiana. I moved to Maryland five years ago and there was a long gap of time when I didn't do any at all. I just started getting back into glass work recently and am really excited about it. My main interest is sandcarving. I don't do it for profit, though I have sold some pieces here and there. I mainly do it for gifts and for myself. My s.o. and I make cabinets - he does the woodwork and I do the glass panels. We will be selling those, eventually. Right now, we're making some for ourselves. I didn't know you had asked for bios, but I'm in my late 40s and I have two kids. One has three of HER own, and the other just went in to the Air Force. I was in the AF, too, as a Chinese linguist, years ago. My boyfriend is an AF veteran, too. He's an artist, and I work with veterans, training people to help vets get benefits from VA. We met on the Internet and have been very happy together. I think I may even have interested HIM in glass work! :) I'm glad to be a part of this group. There is a lot of good info here! Thanks! Lynn Carrick ("Ree") ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 20:51:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:19:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hotmail.com!scottjf55 From: "scott floyd" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re:grozing Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:19:17 PDT Message-ID: <1998Jul26.31917.0> Precedence: bulk Wow this could go on forever!! *s* I was cut one time while grinding the glass. It had a sharp edge on it. Now the grozing technique is a wonder cause you can gert rid of those edges before grinding if you need to grind. The bottom line is I would suggest for any begginer to take up this technique no matter what kind of glass your doing. Lead, foil whatever it is just another step in the right direction and can cause no harm whatsoever as long as you don't groze into your snack (don't have food near you work) or groze the chips into your eye(wear glasses or safety goggles). ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 21:04:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:20:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hotmail.com!scottjf55 From: "scott floyd" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re:grozing Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:18:24 PDT Message-ID: <1998Jul26.31824.0> Precedence: bulk Wow this could go on forever!! *s* I was cut one time while grinding the glass. It had a sharp edge on it. Now the grozing technique is a wonder cause you can gert rid of those edges before grinding if you need to grind. The bottom line is I would suggest for any begginer to take up this technique no matter what kind of glass your doing. Lead, foil whatever it is just another step in the right direction and can cause no harm whatsoever as long as you don't groze into your snack (don't have food near you work) or groze the chips into your eye(wear glasses or safety goggles). ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 21:22:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:43:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hotmail.com!midwich_cuckoo From: "Roger Thornhill" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Homepage - it's about glass Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:41:18 PDT Message-ID: <1998Jul26.34118.0> Precedence: bulk I must 100% disagree - we are talking about stained glass and stained glass pictures and homepages should be a (tasteful) result of using nice colored backgrounds. Here is a really good example of a well-done homepage I found: the backgrounds are not obtrusive, yet lend well to the overall look and theme of stained glass: http://www.nb.net/~sigglass If you are using a monochrome monitor and a dinosaur modem, that is not the problem of the stained glass homepage enthusiasts - the problem needs to be corrected on your end. I do admit, however, that no single page should have too much on it - otherwise it can take forever to fully load and the average attention span of the internet surfer is .... uh, what were we talking about? Roger >I agree 100%, and I would add that another big no-no is > >COLORED BACKGROUNDS > >especially dark-colored or patterned ones. Lots of people who design their own >pages on color screens tend to go hog-wild, forgetting that some folks are >still in the stone age with B&W or grayscale monitors and 28.8 modems ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Jul 25 22:31:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 21:47:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: Dinosaur Bob To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: grozing volleys Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 00:02:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul25.20248.0> Organization: Cox's Mower Service Precedence: bulk Interesting dialog on grozing - I counted 24 messages in less than 24 hours (from 1 am Sat to 12:15 am Sun New York time). Great discussion, the thread didn't deteriorate. I s*b to othe ML's, and by now the flames, bashing etc would have the list Nanny in a tither. I'm proud to be in the group! -- 'Every (person) must decide whether to walk in the light of creative altruism or the darkness of selfishness. This is the judgement. Life's most persistent and urgent question is "What are you doing for others?' "Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 26 04:45:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 03:15:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Grozing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 06:18:16 +0000 Message-ID: <199807261200.IAA06003@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > But I too have caught the little wizzened old Craftsman producing a > PERFECT grozed edge by just drawing one piece of glass against > another.... > In a month of Sundays.... I couldn't do it.... I have succumbed to > the 20th Century invention of the grozier pliers........ Groziers are that late? Hmm. I'll have to check on that. As for the old trick of drawing one piece of glass against another, I'm sure that it just takes practice to get it right. I've seen it done and it's no big thing: a quick stroke one way and another the other way ... like sharpening a carving knife against that rod-like whetstone (there must be a definite word for that thing). Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 26 05:00:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 03:15:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Homepage - it's about glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 06:18:16 +0000 Message-ID: <199807261200.IAA06006@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > I must 100% disagree - we are talking about stained glass and stained > glass pictures and homepages should be a (tasteful) result of using nice > colored backgrounds. I think so, too. I usually show glasswork against a black or very dark background to create the illusion that it's being seen in a dark room, back-lit. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 26 08:40:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 07:02:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bcinternet.net!cpesonen From: cpesonen@bcinternet.net (Cindy Pesonen) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Grozing Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 07:00:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <199807261400.HAA19188@baby.vphos.net> Precedence: bulk > > >Hi PJ, > >I use band sander on 1/4" clear float edges...and 3/4" glass... >There is no other way that you can bring the glass back to an "absolute flawless" high grade polish....that I know of. > >Kiln working the glass and with it's "fire polish" still will leave the glass frosted colour and not the absolute clear. > >Band sanding when done correctly has the look of a bevel edge. >It' a pure delight to produce and see. > >Smiles, Cindy > >>I have never in all my years >>had the need for a band sander. Even when doing pate de verre!!!! >> >> >>my best, >>pj >>> >>>A grinder is for the most part unnecessary. A little practice with >>>the tools that have been around 700+ years to enjoy a craft and an >>>art that's been around that long, too, is all that's needed. >>> >>>Albert >>>---- >>>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >>> >>> >> >>---- >>For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >>To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >>Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass >> >> > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 26 09:14:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 07:23:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: What would you buy? Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 10:22:07 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul26.14227.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 7/25/98 9:31:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, GreerStudios@compuserve.com writes: << I'd buy glass! Sounds like you have the basic tools, so spend it on materials to make panels. >> Ditto - everything but glass can be bought mail order. You need to see the glass in person to pick out complementary colors/patterns. In addition, you save the boxing charges, which is one of my pet peeves. For making panels, I find the layout block system invaluable for keeping things completely square. If you have all the sizes (3, 6, 12 & 24 inch) you can frame out almost any size panel. I use it on homasote board. You can get the layout mail order too. Go for the glass! Brenda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 26 10:50:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 09:03:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Good Advice for a Newbie Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 11:32:26 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul26.73226.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:Astarzia@aol.com >Being new to the craft, I have two questions. What is the second story worksurface used for and is the disc grinder mostly used for grinding straight edges or is it good for something else as well? Does anyone have either = of these two grinders? I have noticed some people talking about the cooling= systems not working well on their grinders and taping water pics to remed= y the problem. I would like to get a good grinder that I won't have to worry about for awhile.< The 2nd story worksurface is used when you put the smaller grinding wheel atop the larger one. The 2nd story worksurface then forms a worksurface for grinding pieces using the grinding wheel on top. Personally, I don't see the need for the 2nd story worksurface. I just hold the glass piece and grind. Remember to apply water to both the grinding wheel and the glass piece. There is no automatic water feed up to the 2nd story level. I just take a small sponge and wet down the grinding wheel often. As to the disc grinder - don't know. Don't use one. But one word of advice - go for the grinder with the highest horsepower and largest worksurface available. This makes grinding much more pleasant. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 26 11:04:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 09:10:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: What would you buy? Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 11:32:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul26.73230.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by fibers >If you had that budget, what would buy?< Morton System, definately. Ring/band saw - nope. Metal cutting saw - YE= S! I love my Gryphon saw. I use it to cut zinc, brass (and I admit, lead) came all the time. Love it! Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 26 12:02:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 10:02:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: grozing Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 12:59:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul26.85912.0> References: <<1998Jul26.31917.0>> Precedence: bulk scott floyd wrote: > > Wow this could go on forever!! *s* > I was cut one time while grinding the glass. It had a sharp edge on it. > Now the grozing technique is a wonder cause you can gert rid of those > edges before grinding if you need to grind. The bottom line is I would > suggest for any begginer to take up this technique no matter what kind > of glass your doing. Lead, foil whatever it is just another step in the > right direction and can cause no harm whatsoever as long as you don't > groze into your snack (don't have food near you work) or groze the chips > into your eye(wear glasses or safety goggles). > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the reason why i personally don't like grozing, is because of some bad experiances. instead of grinding i tried out grozing an inside curve. and it broke, and it was my only piece (it's the japanese garden in the middle of the pond, for anyone curious). plus there's the sharp mess factor on the floor. for the most part i can cut it pretty accuratly, so i don't need to groze. also alot of my glass is on the hard side. i found that grozing works best on soft glass. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 26 14:13:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 11:41:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, Ensembles@compuserve.com Subject: Good Advice for a Newbie Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:37:36, -0500 Message-ID: <199807261837.OAA11278@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>Message text written by INTERNET:Astarzia@aol.com >Being new to the craft, I have two questions. What is the second story worksurface used for and is the disc grinder mostly used for grinding straight edges or is it good for something else as well? Does anyone have either = of these two grinders? I have noticed some people talking about the cooling= systems not working well on their grinders and taping water pics to remed= y the problem. I would like to get a good grinder that I won't have to worry about for awhile.<< The second story work surface for Glasstar Grinders provides water to the grinding head. Cann't remember if the Inland does. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *Thanks, America.* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 26 14:23:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 11:55:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: BMarhon@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: What would you buy? Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:52:11, -0500 Message-ID: <199807261852.OAA09292@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>In a message dated 7/25/98 9:31:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, GreerStudios@compuserve.com writes: << I'd buy glass! Sounds like you have the basic tools, so spend it on materials to make panels. >> Ditto - everything but glass can be bought mail order. You need to see the glass in person to pick out complementary colors/patterns. In addition, you save the boxing charges, which is one of my pet peeves.<< I agree with all of the above. A word of caution. Do not invest heavly in glass for cabinet doors until you know what sells. I hope you can have a bunch of samples on display. Try to have the hubby not make a big thing out of showing off his solid wood doors. There is more profit in selling a door with glass in it. A row of different panels in different woodwork makes a good display. For glass selection I would go heavy on textured clear such as, gluechip, Spectrum water glass, Spectrum clear grannit, Desag machine antique and perhaps Spectrum baroque. A few bevels like diamonds arranged in a pattern to form a bigger pattern is a nice way to go. Remember if you make up a sample you must be able to price it at a price the public will pay. Any sample that does not sell in a few months is a candidate for discounting and replacement. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *Thanks, America.* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 26 14:34:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:49:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: wcnet.net!fibers From: fibers@wcnet.net (fibers) To: BOB DUCHESNEAU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Good Advice for a Newbie Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:56:37 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul26.85637.0> References: <<199807260049.UAA21478@mime3.prodigy.com>> Precedence: bulk Thanks to all who replied to my question. Perhaps I should have explained more. I have just been approved to buy wholesale but my first purchase must be at least $500.00. I planned to use that on tools with some extra added for glass. Must put a limit on myself when it comes to glass because I go wild when I see glass colors. I want every thing in sight.( I used to do a lot of quilting and you should see my fabric stash!!) Bad thing is, glass won't fold up to go in nice neat boxes. Most of the glass I will be using, I think, will be various types of clear tetures and bevels How helpful is glass samples? Nelda BOB DUCHESNEAU wrote: > >>First, I am in the process of fixing up the back room of our garage > as a > stained glass studio. My fiance built a work bench and plans to make > half > of it a light table. Is there a specific thickness or type of glass > that > should be > used for a light table? Are there some lights that are better than > others? > how > about the reflectors that go between the lights and the glass? > > Second, what type of surface is best for the top of the actual work > surface > for the bench? The benches where I have been taking classes use a > sheet > of linoleum upside down. The back of the linoleum is soft and > forgiving and > seems to grab the glass so that it doesn't slide around. Does anyone > have > any other suggestions? > > Lastly (for now), I have read the discussion regarding grinders vs. > groziers, > etc. I have decided that I am going to buy a grinder, but would like > to avoid > spending > money on a grinder that I will be unhappy with later. The mail order > catalog > that > I have lists two grinders that I am interested in. The first is the > Inland > Wizard > which has a 1" and 1/4" grinding bit, invisible sponge cooling system, > second > story > worksurface, 5bit serts, splash guard, 30/60/90 square, 1/8 > horsepower 3500 > RPM motor. The price is $129.95. The second grinder is called the > Inland > Twinspin > which is supposed to be a combination of two grinders; a full > featured Impulse > grinder and a new disc-type grinder. It has two heads; a 1" and 1/4" > and the > new touch-top surface (the grinder turns on as soon as you put a > piece of > glass on the surface). It says that in a matter of seconds you can > convert it > to a disc grinder for grinding straight edges on the 5" wheel. The > price is > $159.95. > > Being new to the craft, I have two questions. What is the second > story > worksurface used for and is the disc grinder mostly used for grinding > straight > edges or is it good for something else as well? Does anyone have > either of > these two grinders? I have noticed some people talking about the > cooling > systems not working well on their grinders and taping water pics to > remedy the > problem. I would like to get a good grinder that I won't have to > worry about > for awhile. > > Please be kind..... > > *Astarzia*<< > > You can inset a large Morton work surface for a light table. The > backside is intended for this purpose. A 30 watt florcessent should > do the trick for lighting. !/4" glass frosted on the underside works > well also. > > I like my 3/4" plywood work surfaces. I made them eleven years ago > and they are going strong. > > The Wizard is a good grinder. I like the Glasstars a bit better. > Think the twinspin is a waste of time and money. > > The second story work surface is used to raise the work surface to > the height of the 1/4 and 1/8" bits. > > My Glasstar All-Star (top of the line) lubricates well as will most > others with proper maintance. > > A have tried to be kind but am in a hurry, Bob > > ____ > Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 > *Thanks, America.* > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 26 14:50:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:02:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, fibers@wcnet.net Subject: Re: Good Advice for a Newbie Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:04:52, -0500 Message-ID: <199807261904.PAA18556@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>Most of the glass I will be using, I think, will be various types of clear tetures and bevels How helpful is glass samples? Nelda<< Amazing, I just posted my cut on most of this. I find glass samples to be very helpful. The company I deal with mostly (Hollanders LA) makes up sample boxes of the glasses THEY SELL. It is not much use to have a full company sample box if your suppliers only stock a fraction of the line. Getting glass direct from the manufacturer is a very expensive propersition and best avoided. I only show my customers what I can provide to them at a decent price. Many colored glasses do not show off well in a cabinet door where there is no light coming from behind. That is why I am heavy on clear textures. Of course, the customer can have most anything they are willing to pay for. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *Thanks, America.* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 26 14:55:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:05:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!CWWSLW From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Grozing..again =F4=BF=F4?= Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 17:03:09 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul26.2139.0> Precedence: bulk Well, okay. Just when yall are getting tierd of the grozing thing, here's another question. I thought you HAD to grind the edges to get a better grip with the copper foil. I can get all my pieces to fit just right, but I still go over each one with the grinder before I foil. Have I been wasting my time? I do use my grozing pliers for sharp curves. Sometimes my grinding wheel is too large (3/4") for the tight bends. Susan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 26 15:11:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:44:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: eatumup.com!byronw From: byronw@eatumup.com (Byron Wells) To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: What would you buy? Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:48:12 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul26.114812.0> Precedence: bulk I would buy the came bender and cutoff saw and spend the rest on glass... Saws wont be necessary for door panel work..Sounds like you have all the basic tools you need aleady....For what you'll spend on the saw you can get a lot of glass..... Byron... Wells Glassworks -----Original Message----- From: fibers To: glass@ bungie.com Date: Saturday, July 25, 1998 9:45 AM Subject: What would you buy? >We live a long way from any glass suppliers so I must depend on mail >order. I am planning a trip to a glass shop and I'll have $500.00 to >spend. on tools. There has been alot of talk lately about spending money >on tools that aren't really necessary with a little practice. I have a >grinder and the basic hand tools, breakers, grozers, and lead cutters. >If you had that budget, what would buy? >We have a cabinet door manuf. company and I plan to build stained glass >inserts for these doors. >Some of the things I'm considering are: came bender, ring saw, morton >system, and brass came cutter. >Any other suggestions? >TIA (thanks in advance) >Nelda > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 26 15:22:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:53:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: keeping cool while soldering Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:08:26 -0700 Message-ID: <199807262108.OAA13118@norm.island.net> Precedence: bulk Here's one for the group...how do you keep cool while soldering in the middle of a heat wave. I think this is the flip side of the thread about cutting cold glass :-) Now we all know Elisabeth is famous for soldering in the nude amidst the roses at midnight, but well, that just doesn't work for me. I tried adding a large fan blowing towards me (plus the small fan that vents fumes away) and all that happened was the fumes blew everywhere and the solder was cooled off too fast. Anyone else got creative ideas? Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 26 15:41:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:11:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: "Christie A. Wood" Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Reinforcement/Bracing Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:01:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1998Jul26.8138.0> References: <<1998Jul26.73230.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi All: Read with interest all of the comments about bracing Lenore's panel size 26" by 42". Most everyone seems to agree that horizontal bracing is more important but somehow the logic bothers me. Consider that the panel is hanging vertically. The stress is on how the panel is hung, i.e., o-rings and chain or hooks or some other method. So not sure how horizontal reinforcement helps in this situation. If, on the other hand, the panel is installed, the stress caused by the weight of the glass can cause bowing and sagging...unless reinforcement is made vertically to prevent this. It would appear that horizontal reinforcement is more of a "safety net" to keep the window from falling out of the window opening since this is not going to keep the window from bowing or sagging. Again Tiffany's work can serve as examples of this. Tiffany did horizontal reinforcement well but very little vertical. A lot of the restoration is because of the bowing and sagging of the windows. As to Lenore's panel, someone suggested using a wooden frame...that is perhaps the best solution. Replacing the lead came border with zinc and then using a wooden frame would be even better. Peggy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 26 15:53:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:15:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "fibers" , "Glass@ Bungie.Com" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Good Advice for a Newbie Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:15:49 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul26.81549.0> Precedence: bulk If you intend to do no lamps at the start,a lot of opals in hand-made glass will probably not be for you. If the glass is machine made, such as spectrum, wissmach, and so forth, a sample box is good. NO deviations in catherdals so the sample and the sheet will be the same. If you are messing around with hand made opals, not worth the expense as a small sample maybe the ONLY part of that sheet with the colors of the sample. examples, yogo stipples, bullseye and uroborus. enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 26 16:24:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:57:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: keeping cool while soldering Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 18:49:24 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul26.144924.0> References: <<199807262108.OAA13118@norm.island.net>> Precedence: bulk Carol Swann wrote: > > Here's one for the group...how do you keep cool while soldering in the > middle of a heat wave. I think this is the flip side of the thread about > cutting cold glass :-) > > Now we all know Elisabeth is famous for soldering in the nude amidst the > roses at midnight, but well, that just doesn't work for me. > > I tried adding a large fan blowing towards me (plus the small fan that vents > fumes away) and all that happened was the fumes blew everywhere and the > solder was cooled off too fast. > > Anyone else got creative ideas? > > Carol Swann > Synergy Glass & Creative > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass a fan in the window is all you can really do. unless your lucky enough to have an AC in the shop. i have a 12" ocilating fan, a 6" clip on fan, and an exhaust fan, along with the open window. the 12" helps to move the fumes away (that and the inland fume extracter). the 6" clip on, blows on me. and i have a few other fans to help (as long as the fan is on me, and not the work). i stop every so often and wash down my face and arms with cold water. and i also have a spray bottle, for a simaler effect. and of course, you can try not to solder in the middle of a heat wave... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 26 16:40:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:57:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: CWWSLW@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Grozing..again =?iso-8859-1?Q?=F4=BF=F4?= Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 18:42:53 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul26.144253.0> References: <<1998Jul26.2139.0>> Precedence: bulk CWWSLW@aol.com wrote: > > Well, okay. > Just when yall are getting tierd of the grozing thing, here's another > question. > I thought you HAD to grind the edges to get a better grip with the copper > foil. I can get all my pieces to fit just right, but I still go over each one > with the grinder before I foil. Have I been wasting my time? > I do use my grozing pliers for sharp curves. Sometimes my grinding wheel is > too large (3/4") for the tight bends. > > Susan > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass grinding is'nt necessary to make the foil grip. as long as the glass is clean and dry, and the foil is free of hand oils, the foil will stick fine. but i found that the ground edges does improve the foil's adhesive properties. so grinding does help the foil to hang on. as long as you glass is flat, not jaggie or raggie, the foil should be ok. my boxes are barely ground, i try to do it as little as possible. though the other thing to remember is that a foiled project grows too. so if all your pieces are tight fitting, and you don't grind anything, you could have a sizable panel growth. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 26 17:58:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 17:46:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: "INTERNET:CWWSLW@aol.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Grozing..again =F4=BF=F4?= Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 20:38:43 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul26.163843.0> Precedence: bulk I think you are wasting time grinding each piece of glass before you foil it. If your cutting is good, grinding is not necessary unless the glass is unusually hard and brittle or when using unusual glass like drapery glass. When we build a copperfoil window of, say, 300 pieces, I would guess we only grind about ten pieces of glass. The foil actually adheres better (no powdery glass dust to = contend with) and contrary to popular belief, the adhesive does NOT contribute to the structural integrity of the window. If that were true, anyone in a dry climate would be rebuilding = all their copperfoil jobs every two years because the adhesive had dried out! The adhesive on copperfoil is an application convenience only. Your soldering is holding the work together. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 26 19:03:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 18:34:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Good Advice for a Newbie Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 21:00:14, -0500 Message-ID: <199807270100.VAA16266@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk The Glasstar second story work surface provides water coolant to the installed 1/4 or 1/8" grinding head. I do not remember if the Inland does. I find that good coolant flow is achieved by having the impeller fully seated if so equipped and a good sponge. Keeping the coolant level high helps also. I like to grind wet to keep the glass dust down and prolong the life of the diamond head. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *Thanks, America.* TO: YWAH36A ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 26 19:20:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 18:39:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Grozing..again =?iso-8859-1?Q?=F4=BF=F4?= Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 21:25:08 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul26.17258.0> References: <<1998Jul26.163843.0>> Precedence: bulk Michael J. Greer wrote: > > I think you are wasting time grinding > each piece of glass before you foil > it. If your cutting is good, grinding is > not necessary unless the glass is > unusually hard and brittle or when > using unusual glass like drapery > glass. When we build a copperfoil > window of, say, 300 pieces, I would > guess we only grind about ten pieces > of glass. The foil actually adheres > better (no powdery glass dust to = > would'nt you be washing the pieces off anyway? personally my panels usually start with 300 pieces, most of them fairly tiny. cutting isn't always accurate. the foil actually sticks alot longer than you think. have you ever tried removing old foil off of glass? it can be very difficult, i've had blobs that had foil on them (with out grinding), that were are 10 years old. that stuff was a pain to get off. the glue stay's sticky for a pretty long time... ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 26 20:07:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 19:43:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Reinforcement/Bracing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 22:17:45 +0000 Message-ID: <199807270400.AAA06404@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Read with interest all of the comments about bracing Lenore's panel size > 26" by 42". Most everyone seems to agree that horizontal bracing is more > important but somehow the logic bothers me. You're right, Peggy. Lenore pointed out that the panel had originally been mounted in sash, but its new owners can't do that (living in a condo, maybe? with rules like that?), so it must now be hung. She didn't want to take the original horizontal bracing off, but the thread wandered off onto horizontal vs. vertical bracing in general, rather than her particular situation in ... er, particular. > this. It would appear that horizontal reinforcement is more of a "safety > net" to keep the window from falling out of the window opening since this > is not going to keep the window from bowing or sagging. Again Tiffany's > work can serve as examples of this. Tiffany did horizontal reinforcement > well but very little vertical. A lot of the restoration is because of the > bowing and sagging of the windows. The windows will eventually bow and sag anyway, because the lead fatigues over time. Think of that old, dry rubber band you found behind the sofa. Stretch it and it breaks instead of being elastic. Lead sort of does the same thing after while. The point of the horizontal bracing is to *transfer to the surrounding wood or stone sash the downward effect of gravity, not to keep the window from falling out of the sash. It's unlikely to do that if properly installed ... and sometimes the bracing's on the inside, anyway. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sun Jul 26 21:37:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Sun, 26 Jul 1998 21:02:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: sprintmail.com!MollysGlass From: Molly Keys To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: cats Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 21:56:10 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul26.165610.0> Precedence: bulk A couple of weeks ago we talked about cats and the good fortune they bring. Well, I did a show this weekend and my icing on the cake was selling my "Samantha" window to a lovely couple. It never fails when I make a cat window it doesn't stay in inventory very long. My daughter was very sad because she had grand ideas of taking the window to her new apartment at college in a couple of weeks. Oh, well. Molly ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 03:36:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 02:51:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: magnet.mt!frank.g.mizzi From: "Mizzi Frank at MITTS" To: Bungi Glass list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Was - What would you buy Date: Mon Jul 27 02:50:44 1998 Message-ID: <98Jul27.120716gmt+0100.19586-2@michelle.magnet.mt> Precedence: bulk Greetings, It seems that the MORTON cutting surface and matching tools are very high on the WHAT WOULD YOU BUY list. I would like to buy one so is there anybody in here who sells them and would like to contact me at frankmizzi@hotmail.com about an actual purchase? Thanks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 05:02:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 04:21:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Grozing Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 10:16:35 +0100 Message-ID: <1998Jul27.111635.0> Precedence: bulk Apologies if I am continuing this thread longer than you can bear, but I've been busy preparing for and attending a trade show this last week and only now have the time to read my post. I couldn't resist adding to Dani's comment >> I cringe even more when I think of all the windows out there that will have >>major stress fractures because the glass was cut in ways that it was never meant to be cut! >>If you can't cut that shape by hand, don't do it with a saw... you're begging for trouble. >>(I'm talking about foil and lead work here, not fusing.) Have respect for your medium and appreciate >>its limitations. It's exactly those limitations that give it it's character and particular charm. as it struck the same chord as a passage from a book I took along to read in "slack" moments this weekend. >From "Windows : A Book About Stained and Painted Glass" by Lewis F Day (pub. Batsford 1906) <>(he refers to the diamond cutter - a newfangled tool in those days I assume ;-0 ) << glass may actually be cut to almost any shape; but it is not on that account advisable to design shapes awkward to cut; on the contrary, simplicity of cutting makes strong glazing. Pieces of glass difficult to cut are the first to break. It is the business of the designer to anticipate breakage by introducing a lead just where the danger would occur...... It is a mistake to be afraid of leads. Skillfully introduced they help the effect; and they seldom hurt the window, much as they may disfigure the cartoon for it.>> This statement (along with snippets from other old books) will be used in my next discussion with students on designing fullsized leaded windows as it fits in very well with our own concept of window design. If this quotation offends any of you who design purely decorative pieces, please consider that he is talking about designing "real" leaded windows to be installed in window openings and stand alone without double glazing (thermal units) to protect them from the weather. Off soapbox Any of you feel like sending us some of that hot weather that has been upsetting you? >From a cold wet dismal Monday morning in England. EliZabeth Bournemouth Stained Glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 05:49:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 05:11:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "Molly Keys" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: cats Date: Mon, 27 Jul 98 08:05:06 -0400 Message-ID: <199807271208.IAA23660@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk >A couple of weeks ago we talked about cats and the good fortune they >bring. Well, I did a show this weekend and my icing on the cake was >selling my "Samantha" window to a lovely couple. It never fails when I >make a cat window it doesn't stay in inventory very long. My daughter >was very sad because she had grand ideas of taking the window to her new >apartment at college in a couple of weeks. Oh, well. >Molly Congrats, Molly! What? You can't whip up another one for her in a couple of weeks??? I, also, have had very good luck with cats (real and glassy). And birds. Hmmm, maybe we should make a panel with cat *and* birds! That would be an original. Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 06:10:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 05:29:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Grozing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 08:35:31 +0000 Message-ID: <199807271418.KAA23761@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > If this quotation offends any of you who design purely decorative pieces, > please consider that he is talking about designing "real" leaded windows to > be installed in window openings and stand alone without double glazing > (thermal units) to protect them from the weather. EliZabeth, You are, of course, correct ... and so is Lewis Day (and everyone else here who has said one must respect the materials one works with). But the same is true of "purely decorative pieces" -- if the glass is cut with deep indents (an "L" shape, for instance), it will almost surely break, sooner or later -- usually sooner -- at the point of the indentation. That's its nature and that's what it'll do. The best thing to do when confronted with situations like that in a design is to redesign the pattern so that the glass isn't put in that position. It'll not only be easier on the glass, but easier on you as you cut and build the project ... and you won't have clients and customers coming back with broken bits in their windows and/or decorative pieces. Honorably, you'd have to fix them for free, a time- and money-waster. Professionally, you'd look foolish for having forced the glass into shapes it's not happy with. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 06:42:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 05:34:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: keeping cool while soldering Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 08:38:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul27.43829.0> Precedence: bulk My work bench is my sewing machine table. Under the table is the A/C = floor vent. This blows cool air on me without blowing air across the = work bench. Maybe a fan under the table would have the same effect = without cooling your solder. Linda Anyone else got creative ideas? Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 06:51:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 05:55:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel Abedi" To: "Toby" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Grozing Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 19:51:00 +0800 Message-ID: <1998Jul28.3510.0> Precedence: bulk I agree with on one account, and that is the website should be small and wthout too many bells & whistles. One the matter of the grinder, I have to respectfully disagree, Mike is right. The use of foil has made grinder very practical. Before I had a grinder it would take an entire weekend just getting the pieces ready for foiling. Now I can finish a panel in that time. The grinder has paid itself off many times over. Not to say I have not used that great tool, the grozer. I had not even heard of a grinder until long after I had started on stained glass. That's my two cents worth. Shakeel Abedi 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Johor Malaysia Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 shakeel@tm.net.my -----Original Message----- From: Toby To: glass@bungi.com Date: Saturday, July 25, 1998 8:54 AM Subject: Re: Grozing >Hi All, >Grozing saves glass, saves work saves time, saves energy, saves >expensive grinder wheels, saves fingers, saves plasters, saves >insurance policy cost.... Mike might not think it's used or taught "a >lot" these days. >Well Mike, let me assure you that I would certainly make YOU know the >traditional and proper use of a grozier pliers. A "breaking plier" is >different, has a different purpose, and even looks different. >I spend at least ONE full lesson with my students showing, >demonstrating and making THEM practise the "anatomy" of a grozier >plier, how to use it effectively and efficiently. >I myself use grozier pliers every day, all the time for grinding, >trimming, adjusting cuts, curves and edges. You can do almost ALL >your glass cleaning and adjustments with a grozier plier for >LEAD-work. >The price difference: a grozier plier in UK: grozier >pliers 11 US Dollars.... the smallest, cheapest possible electrical >grinder to buy: 140 US Dollars. >For a hobbyist!!! A lot of money!!! >For SOME people in UK the cost of a grinder represent almost one >week's gross wages. >So guess WHO will be teaching good old-fashioned cheaper >alternatives!!! >Don't get complacent! >Modern technology is all very well. But what DO you do if you have a >power-cut???? >What do you do if you have a very limited budget but are totally >addicted to stained glass?? >You improvise! >You go back to humble "beginnings"! >You even hand-craft your OWN tools!! > >I have just had a very frustrated young student with me this morning. >Term has ended.... a Loooong time till end of September. This student >has worked on her first panel for almost 12 months. It's lovely, her >soldering is a joy, the design totally her own. She is 20 years old >and VERY talented. She recently left College. She hasn't got a >regular job, she does gardening, helps out painting theatre scenery >props, cleans houses. Very earnest, totally meticulous. has given >her entire soul to her FIRST panel. Just because she herself is so >meticulous, I made it my business to "nit-pick" with her about her >soldering. She came to my home this morninf and spent the morning on >my patio learning about the dirty work of cementing. > >....And YES Dani!!!! While her panel was setting, she joined me in >the garden , took up a pick-axe and helped me to dig out a root of an >old shrub that I had been trying to kill off and get rid of. She dug >it out for me.... With a BIG smile on her face. (Have I earned some >"brownie-points" now....?) > >SHE can't afford grinders here and kilns there and pointless "gizmos" >elsewhere. By taking her and people LIKE her back to basics, I make >it affordable and accessible to her - at the same time she also is >taught her OWN innovational skills, her OWN imagination is fired. >To buy and own a GRINDER isn't life and death, it doesn't make you a >BETTER craftsman. >And....funnily enough, I find that by bringing students BACK to >basics, they THEMSELVES will find imaginative ways of doing stained >glass better; they themselves are fired to think of making wonderful > tools that cost little, are easy to make and are most effective to >do the job. >Who is a firm believer in taking stained glass, >traditionally - a step at a time??? > > Yours Truly! > Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK > > >Cindy wrote: >> Grozing saves fingers! >Snip >> Elizabeth from the UK teaches great lessons on it!...smiles. > >Cindy.... to confuse everyone.... there are TWO of us in UK.... >EliZZZZZabeth in Bournemouth (who also has a retail store) >EliSSSSSabeth ('n Toby) (The Viking one- 'n who doesn't) > >One with a ZZZZed >One with an eSSSSS >We are occasionally causing confusion.... >......... >> > >---- >As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" >North Lights Stained Glass - homepage >http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm >---- >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 07:20:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 05:56:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel Abedi" To: "fibers" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: What would you buy? Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 20:16:00 +0800 Message-ID: <1998Jul28.4160.0> Precedence: bulk I would recommend the Morton Glass Shop. That one tool has made the most difference to me. Shakeel Abedi 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Johor Malaysia Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 shakeel@tm.net.my -----Original Message----- From: fibers To: glass@ bungie.com Date: Sunday, July 26, 1998 6:58 AM Subject: What would you buy? >We live a long way from any glass suppliers so I must depend on mail >order. I am planning a trip to a glass shop and I'll have $500.00 to >spend. on tools. There has been alot of talk lately about spending money >on tools that aren't really necessary with a little practice. I have a >grinder and the basic hand tools, breakers, grozers, and lead cutters. >If you had that budget, what would buy? >We have a cabinet door manuf. company and I plan to build stained glass >inserts for these doors. >Some of the things I'm considering are: came bender, ring saw, morton >system, and brass came cutter. >Any other suggestions? >TIA (thanks in advance) >Nelda > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 08:50:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 07:43:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Bungi Glass list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Was - What would you buy Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 10:41:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul27.64144.0> References: <<98Jul27.120716gmt+0100.19586-2@michelle.magnet.mt>> Precedence: bulk Mizzi Frank at MITTS wrote: > > Greetings, > > It seems that the MORTON cutting surface and matching tools are very high on the > WHAT WOULD YOU BUY list. > > I would like to buy one so is there anybody in here who sells them and would > like to contact me at frankmizzi@hotmail.com about an actual purchase? > Thanks > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i might have bought morton, but i never figured out a good techinque to remove the glass crumbs from the surface (with out too much extra work). and also you would never be able to cut pieces smaller then a 1/2" x 1/2" on the surface. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 09:41:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 08:54:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Grozing Date: Mon, 27 Jul 98 08:52:53 -0700 Message-ID: References: <<1998Jul24.174640.0>> Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk M. Savad wrote: > but the one thing that has to be remembered is, that the people who use > the grozers do mainly lead work. i don't believe this is quite accurate. i learned, and have taught, and most places in this town teach classes, without a grinder. i believe that if i didn't groze almost everything first, i would use a lot more grinder heads and would be a lot slower. learning how to do this task correctly saves time and money. learning how to cut better saves even more time and money. regards, charlie --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Customer Assistance Center Stratus Computer, Inc. Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 09:55:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 08:55:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Bracing Date: Mon, 27 Jul 98 08:52:48 -0700 Message-ID: References: <<199807251623.MAA29637@vger.vgernet.net>> Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk Albert Lewis wrote: > Vertical support bars are a relatively new invention; sometimes > called "fins," in my estimation they're a waste of time. The proper > support is the time-tested and traditional one: horizontal bars > extended into the frame of the surround. i do this usually only in high stress installations. i built a bathroom door and besides being shut constantly, i didn't want anyone to put a hand through it. the panel is a lot stronger with both horiz and vert rebar. charlie --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Customer Assistance Center Stratus Computer, Inc. Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 10:03:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 08:46:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!HiimLaura From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: anyone going to GV? Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 09:38:15 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul27.133815.0> Precedence: bulk Just curious - who's going to Glass Visions in August. I'll be there! Laura ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 10:32:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 09:40:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: morton Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 12:36:14 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul27.163614.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-07-27 11:51:51 EDT, you write: > i might have bought morton, but i never figured out a good techinque to > remove the glass crumbs from the surface (with out too much extra work). > and also you would never be able to cut pieces smaller then a 1/2" x > 1/2" on the surface. > vacuuming works well as does just pick up board and turn it over. If you turn your pieces even the most tiniest can be cut on the board deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 11:03:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 09:45:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: Bungi Glass list , "'M. Savad'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Was - What would you buy Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 12:50:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul27.8507.0> Precedence: bulk That's why I bought the Emerald Rainbow's Scoreboard. I had a Morton = board (not the glass shop) and couldn't seem to get the knack of cutting = on it. Small pieces kept tipping into the little squares. I now have it = under my grinder to collect drips.=20 The Scoreboard is smooth and cuts very nicely. I keep my old draftsman's = board brush nearby to remove slivers of glass between cuts. Works = nicely. Linda Campbell Mike wrote: i might have bought morton, but i never figured out a good techinque to remove the glass crumbs from the surface (with out too much extra work). and also you would never be able to cut pieces smaller then a 1/2" x 1/2" on the surface. ---Mike Savad ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 12:08:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 11:10:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: morton Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:08:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul27.10821.0> Precedence: bulk Geez, isn't it enough I have to control the glass cutter on the glass? = But to move the glass too, to keep it from falling in a hole? I'll stick = to my scoreboard. No holes to fall in. Life was meant to be simple. At least for us INTP's. We have enough = trouble fitting in. :) Linda dEB SAID > and also you would never be able to cut pieces smaller then a 1/2" x > 1/2" on the surface. > =20 vacuuming works well as does just pick up board and turn it over. If = you turn your pieces even the most tiniest can be cut on the board deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 12:42:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 11:43:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: GSA-ORSP.CROWN.NWU.EDU!kaye From: "Kaye Sodt" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: grozing volleys Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 10:56:16 CST 6CDT Message-ID: <1970Jan1.000.0> Organization: GSA-ORSP Precedence: bulk Great discussion, the thread didn't deteriorate. I s*b to othe ML's, and by now the flames, bashing etc would have the list Nanny in a tither. I'm proud to be in the group! I was thinking the same thing, DinoBob! Since my question started this thread, I am gratified to see we have learned from our mistakes and can disagree without being disagreeable (converse without controversy, dis-cuss without cuss....ok I'll stop). Kaye ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 13:41:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 12:08:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Grozing Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 15:07:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul27.11754.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Elizabeth- I LOVE Lewis Day's books and wish I could find an affordable one over here! You can't imagine what is being charged for those little things, but aren't they full of the most = fabulous information? If you every find an affordable one over there, please let me know - I'll snap it up in a heartbeat! = Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 14:14:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 12:29:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: crnci1.com!wc.c From: wc.c@crnci1.com To: wc.c@crnci1.com Subject: VERY IMPORTANT !!! Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 20:25:49 +0100 Message-ID: <9807271925.AA10607@mars.cableol.net> Precedence: bulk Dear Friend: This is an extremely IMPORTANT announcement for you! iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' Your Future May Depend on it!!! iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii BUT FIRST, please read the following Editorial Excerpts from some important publications in the United States: New York Times: "In concluding our review of financial organizxations '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' to effect change in the 90's, special attention should be called to 'World Currency Cartel' organization based in California. The members of this organization are amassing hundreds of millions of dollars in the currency market using a very LEGAL method which has NEVER been divulged to the general public. While their purpose is not yet known, their presence has most certainly been felt". NBC Nightly News: "Members of the World Currency Cartel organization, ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' who always keep Low Profile of themselves, are some of the most powerful and wealthiest people in this hemisphere". More Excerpts later, but first let us give you this "Important Announcement": ``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` We are glad to announce that for the very first time, the World Currency Cartel organization will instruct a LIMITED number of people worldwide on HOW TO CONVERT $25 INTO ONE HUNDRED OF LEGAL CURRENCY. We will transact the first conversion for you, after that you can quickly and easily do this on your own hundreds or even thousands of times each and every month. TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS "SECRET FLAW" ! ================================== It is even more explosive than we have yet disclosed. While currency does fluctuates daily, we can show you HOW TO CONVERT $99 INTO $580 as many times as you want. That means, you will be able to CONVERT $99 American Legal Currency Dollars for $580 OF THE SAME. You can do this as many times as you wish, every day, every week, every month. All very LEGALLY and effortlessly! It only takes about 5 to 10 minutes each time you do this. You can do this from your home, your office or even while travelling. All you need is an access to a phone line and an address. Best of all, you can do this from ANY CITY ON THIS EARTH!!! Again, we must reiterate, anyone can do this and the source is Never-Ending. For as long as the global financial community continues to use different curr- encies with varying exchange rate, this "SECRET FLAW" will exist. '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' As we have said earlier, we will do the first transaction for you and will also show you exactly how to do this on your own over and over again. The amount of exchange you would do each time is entirely up to you. Working just 2 to 10 hours a week, you can soon join the list of Millionaires who do this on a daily basis several times a day. The transaction is so simple that even a high school kid can do it! We at the World Currency Cartel organization would like to see a uniform global currency backed by Gold. But, until then, we will allow a LIMITED number of individuals worldwide to share in the Unlimited Profits provided for by the world currency differentials. We will espouse no more political views nor will we ask you to do so. We can say however, that our parent organization Diamond International benefits greatly by the knowledge being shared as we ourselves alongwith YOU benefit likewise. Your main concern surely will be, how you will benefit. As soon as you become a member, you can start making transanctions from your home, office, by telephone or through the mail and even while travelling. As said earlier, we will do the first transanction for you and will show you exactly how to do this on your own over and over again. No one can stop you from earning hundreds of thousands and even millions of dollars each year for as long as this "SECRET FLAW" exists. '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' Don't believe us, experience it for yourself! ================================ Unlike anyone else, we will assure you a great financial freedom and you will add to our quickly growing base of supporters and you may join the list of Millionaires being created using the "SECRET FLAW" in the world currency market. ============== DON'T ENVY US, JOIN US TODAY!!! iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii There is a one time membership fee of only $195.00. BUT, if you join us by AUGUST 15, 1998; which is our company's 2nd Anniversarry date, you can join us for only $35 administrative cost. Your important documents, instructions, contact name & addresses, phone numbers and all other pertinent information will be mailed to you immediately. So, take advantage of our Anniversarry date and join us today. If you are replying AFTER AUGUST 15, 1998; you must pay $195.00 for the membership fee. NO EXCEPTIONS and no more e-mail enquiries please! Upon becoming a member, you promise to keep all infos CONFIDENTIAL. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Should you choose to cancell your membership for any reason, you must return all documents for a refund within 60 days. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ IMPORTANT: ***************** 1.....Write your name & mailing address VERY CLEARLY on paper 2..... Below your address, please write your E-mail address (Optional) 3..... At the top Left Hand corner, write the word "New Member" 4..... Attach a CHECK or M.O. for $35 plus $3 for postage & shipping (TOTAL = US$ 38.00) 5..... Please make the Check/M.O. payable to "Diamond Int." and mail to: DIAMOND INTERNATIONAL 9903 SANTA MONICA BLVD; SUITE # 405 BEVERLY HILLS, CA 90212. U.S.A. ( Outside U.S.A. Must add US$10 EXTRA for shipping). US$ FUNDS ONLY! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Here are some more Editorial Excerpts: Wall Street : "A discreet group of Americans, operating under the guise of World Currency Cartel have recently begun making rumbles in the world finance market. While at this time, their game is not completely known, they certainly be watched by those making major moves in the currency contracts". Financial Week : "Watch them, monitor them, extract their knowledge and try to become one of them. That is the soundest financial advice we could give to someone". National Business Weekly : "While this reporter has been left in the cold as to its method of operation, we have been able to confirm that World Currency Cartel and its members are literally amassing a great furtune overnight". $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ E N D $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 14:20:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 12:47:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: webtv.net!Beadnik2 From: Beadnik2@webtv.net (Joan) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Morton Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 15:45:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1998Jul27.114537.0> Precedence: bulk M. Savad wrote: >i might have bought morton, but i never figured >out a good techinque to remove the glass >crumbs from the surface (with out too much >extra work). I simply put mine in a large plastic garbage bag, turn it upside down, tap a few times.... voila... no "crumbs". >...you would never be able to cut pieces >smaller then a 1/2" x 1/2" on the surface. Morton sells a small accessory turntable with a grip pad which I use all the time for cutting the really small pieces for my fused jewelry. Joan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 14:29:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:34:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: about the morton...Re:Was - What would you buy Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:28:54 -0400 Message-ID: <199807272028.QAA00263@csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca> References: <<98Jul27.120716gmt+0100.19586-2@michelle.magnet.mt>> Precedence: bulk Mizzi Frank at MITTS twists the bytes to say: Mizzi> Greetings, Mizzi> It seems that the MORTON cutting surface and matching tools are very high on the Mizzi> WHAT WOULD YOU BUY list. Mizzi> I would like to buy one so is there anybody in here who sells them and would Mizzi> like to contact me at frankmizzi@hotmail.com about an actual purchase? Mizzi> Thanks Some time ago, when I saw the morton for the first time, I thought it was great. I did not want to invest the money to buy, instead, I started using the top of my Inland as a cutting surface (I was making a lamp with small pieces and it was enough). The surface works beautifully. If I am correct, in the "honeycomb" of the Morton, the surface has a backing. therefore the glass slivers don't fall. I have decided that I don't like this. I prefer to have a honeycomb with no backing --as the top of the grinder; this makes it easier to clean (just remove it, all the glass "crumbs" will stay in the table. Where to find it? I have not had a chance to go to Home Depot, but I am sure that I can buy that cover for fluorescent light boxes that is identical in shape. I am also confident it will be cheaper. Just a thought. -- Daniel M. German "There is no national science as there is no national multiplication table; Anton Chekov -> what is national is no longer science." http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 15:08:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:28:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Linda Campbell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Was - What would you buy Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:27:50 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul27.132750.0> References: <<01BDB95D.169B1040@mmc043.memach.com>> Precedence: bulk Linda Campbell wrote: > > That's why I bought the Emerald Rainbow's Scoreboard. I had a Morton board (not the glass shop) and couldn't seem to get the knack of cutting on it. Small pieces kept tipping into the little squares. I now have it under my grinder to collect drips. > > The Scoreboard is smooth and cuts very nicely. I keep my old draftsman's board brush nearby to remove slivers of glass between cuts. Works nicely. > > Linda Campbell > > Mike wrote: > > i might have bought morton, but i never figured out a good techinque to > remove the glass crumbs from the surface (with out too much extra work). > and also you would never be able to cut pieces smaller then a 1/2" x > 1/2" on the surface. > > ---Mike Savad yeah that's the one i have. actually i got it before emerald was a business, it looks slightly different. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 15:25:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:31:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Grozing Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:29:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul27.132911.0> References: <> Precedence: bulk Charles Spitzer wrote: > > M. Savad wrote: > > but the one thing that has to be remembered is, that the people who use > > the grozers do mainly lead work. > > i don't believe this is quite accurate. i learned, and have taught, and most > places in this town teach classes, without a grinder. i believe that if i > didn't groze almost everything first, i would use a lot more grinder heads and > would be a lot slower. learning how to do this task correctly saves time and > money. learning how to cut better saves even more time and money. > > regards, > charlie > --- > Charles Spitzer > charlie@az.stratus.com > Customer Assistance Center > Stratus Computer, Inc. > Phoenix, AZ > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass actually i found that grozing tends to chip the glass, top or bottom. and that it's not that great to do, if you cutting small thin pieces. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 15:41:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:34:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: morton Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:31:58 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul27.133158.0> References: <<1998Jul27.163614.0>> Precedence: bulk DMR74@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 98-07-27 11:51:51 EDT, you write: > > > i might have bought morton, but i never figured out a good techinque to > > remove the glass crumbs from the surface (with out too much extra work). > > and also you would never be able to cut pieces smaller then a 1/2" x > > 1/2" on the surface. > > > vacuuming works well as does just pick up board and turn it over. If you turn > your pieces even the most tiniest can be cut on the board > deb > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass yeah, but what's the point? i personally like to only have to brush the surface off real quick. instead of dragging out a vaccuum, to clean it. and of course, upside down, makes it harder to use the angle attachments... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 15:56:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:50:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: "Daniel M. German" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: about the morton...Re:Was - What would you buy Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:48:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul27.134833.0> References: <<199807272028.QAA00263@csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca>> Precedence: bulk Daniel M. German wrote: > > Mizzi Frank at MITTS twists the bytes to say: > > Mizzi> Greetings, > Mizzi> It seems that the MORTON cutting surface and matching tools are very high on the > Mizzi> WHAT WOULD YOU BUY list. > > Mizzi> I would like to buy one so is there anybody in here who sells them and would > Mizzi> like to contact me at frankmizzi@hotmail.com about an actual purchase? > Mizzi> Thanks > > Some time ago, when I saw the morton for the first time, I thought it > was great. I did not want to invest the money to buy, instead, I > started using the top of my Inland as a cutting surface (I was making > a lamp with small pieces and it was enough). The surface works > beautifully. > > If I am correct, in the "honeycomb" of the Morton, the surface has a > backing. therefore the glass slivers don't fall. I have decided that I > don't like this. I prefer to have a honeycomb with no backing --as the > top of the grinder; this makes it easier to clean (just remove it, all > the glass "crumbs" will stay in the table. > > Where to find it? I have not had a chance to go to Home Depot, but I > am sure that I can buy that cover for fluorescent light boxes that is > identical in shape. I am also confident it will be cheaper. > > Just a thought. > > -- > Daniel M. German "There is no national science as > there is no national multiplication table; > Anton Chekov -> what is national is no longer science." > http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html > dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass sure, almost any hardware or lighting store should have it. it's the stuff you use for the flourescent lights. should be a whole lot cheaper then morton... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 16:01:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 15:03:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Beveler4 From: To: HiimLaura@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: anyone going to GV? Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:57:22 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul27.215722.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Laura, I'm going to go to W/C this Aug. mainly to meet up with a group of freinds that I have made on the internet in a SG chat group. I buy wholesale so the sale won't really do me much good, but I'm going to look just the same. Personally I can't wait I think that it is going to be a good time, andI look forward to seeing TommyG. again. I'm staying at the Comfort Suites in Bethelehem,Pa.which I understand isn't too far away.I'll look forward to meeting you. Beveler4@aol.com.........(Stan) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 16:48:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 15:49:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: anyone going to GV? Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 18:46:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul27.144633.0> References: <<1998Jul27.133815.0>> Precedence: bulk Well, my husband and I plan on going. of course we called and registered so long ago that I worry that our registration was lost.... John and Dorothy Kalahan HiimLaura@aol.com wrote: > Just curious - who's going to Glass Visions in August. I'll be there! > > Laura > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 17:03:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 15:52:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: flash.net!cat13 From: Carol To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: re: morton Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:44:43 +0000 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980727174443.007a0320@pop.flash.net> Precedence: bulk > i might have bought morton, but i never figured out a good techinque to > remove the glass crumbs from the surface (with out too much extra work). > and also you would never be able to cut pieces smaller then a 1/2" x > 1/2" on the surface. I have a tall rectangular shaped kitchen type garbage can near my work table. It's just wide enought for me to slip my morton board down into the can (the whole thing fits) then I just bang it against the side of the can. It empties fully and I dont' get any slivers outside the can. If I had to cut very many 1/2" x 1/2" pieces I'd go screaming into the night... :) -Carol Always rembember to pillage BEFORE you burn. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 17:14:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:05:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: keeping cool while soldering Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 19:03:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul27.15355.0> References: <<199807262108.OAA13118@norm.island.net>> Precedence: bulk Carol Swann wrote: > Here's one for the group...how do you keep cool while soldering in the > middle of a heat wave. I think this is the flip side of the thread about > cutting cold glass :-) > > Now we all know Elisabeth is famous for soldering in the nude amidst the > roses at midnight, but well, that just doesn't work for me. Years ago (around the medieval ages, I believe) when I was young and wore mini skirts, I worked on the IBM assembly line making reed switches (Computer enthusiasts will know them - why, I've seen them in the Smithsonian!). I stuck the switch with a glass tube around it into a heater. When the glass was soft, the machine would adjust the switch. Periodically I would drop HOT tubes onto my legs. I quickly stopped being fashion's slave. So soldering in the nude...no doesn't work for me. And I have a lot more floppy parts... Nude among the roses at midnight...I could think of better things to do. Dorothy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 17:16:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:15:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Concurrent discussion on Modern tools and Art Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 19:06:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul27.15644.0> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Just wanted to share with you all. This is a concurrent discussion on modern tools and art on the "ArtMetal" list I also belong too. I laughed so hard I think I snapped another rib. Oh Well. For the newer members the ArtMetal site has reams of info on metals, patinas, jewelry, large and small sculptures etc. For anyone that has some interest in those things. Happy Summer everyone Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations > > > > HeathSatow@aol.com wrote: > > > > In a message dated 7/26/98 8:29:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, romeug@erols.com > > writes: > > > > > > Of course it would be ignorant to slag art simply because it is > > > created > > > > with modern tools, but it should reflect that advantage. > > > > Actually, I think Robin NAILED it on the head right there with: "it should > > reflect that advantage." I can't think of a better way to put it. But I will > > explain why I think that nails it. :) > > > > If you can do something better with a technology, use it. If something will > > be truly lost by using a certain tool, don't use it. If your goal is to > > create as much as you can in whatever little time we are each given, why not > > use a certain technology to do more. > > > > If you can sculpt a nine inch tall piece of granite over the span of your > > entire life by only rubbing the stone 20 hours a day with your bare hands, and > > your goal is to make a perfect sphere, great. Go for it. You'll have spent > > your life making one stone ball. It might have been some great Zen > > experience, but that's not for everybody. If my goal is to make a huge > > installation of 10,000 nine-inch diameter granite spheres, I can have them > > turned by machines, and spend my time coming up with new ideas, like > > installations of 20,000 spheres. > > > > Whatever. > > > > Make things how YOU need to make them. If someone else wants to critique it, > > fine, but let them first judge the piece itself, before they even know the > > process. > > > > Rubbing your balls may give the audience a gee-whiz factor, but that ain't > > necessarily art. > > > > -Heath Satow > > Heath!!!!!!This is supposed to be a clean forum!!!!ROFL > > As you know, I make tools that assist others in making art. I happen to > feel that my tools are art, and at least a few of you agree. I have to > approach my work from a slightly different point of view from most of > you because of the price difference. > When I design a piece, the first thing that I have to think about is how > to build the tooling, what fixtures to build, which machines to do the > work on, cycle times, machine loading, etc. > For example, I have just designed a line of delrin dead-blow hammers > that have a cross-peen on one end and interchangable faces on the other > that have different radii domes on the other. These range from a 1" > radius ball to flat in five steps. They are available in both 12oz and > 16oz versions. > If I were to make them as I did the prototypes, absolutely nobody could > afford them! Each one was hand-made (using the mill and lathe, but all > hand controlled, with total risk of failure at each step of the way). > The next step after making the samples was to verify that they were the > weight that I was shooting for by adding the proper amount of lead shot, > and that they truely did not "bounce". After that, I started to build > the fixtures, which includes a four station indexing table set up on > automatic indexing, clamping and unclamping on the horizontal mill for > cutting of the 15 degree bevels for creating the cross peen. > To me, this is where the creative process comes into play.Understanding > and recognising the unmet need in the marketplace, the designing of the > piece, designing of the fixtures, designing of the advertising, the > marketing, sending out sample sets to friends for their feedback, etc. > All of this is part of the creative process, not just the piece by > itself. > I function as a two person shop, and I have chosen a particular niche > that very few others are choosing to work in. Given this niche, and the > prices that I charge, I cannot afford to "hand make" every piece. That > does not change the fact that I regard them as works of art. There is a > level of skill and attention to detail that goes into each and every > one, all of the way down to the packaging. > There is an inspection method used in industry reffered to as: AQL > meaning "acceptable quality level". Basically, it is a sampling method > where you inspect one part out of ..... If this part meets all specs. > the entire lot is passed. It is actually much more elaborate than this, > but this gives you the general idea. > Even though my tools are "machine made" and in some cases go through > programmed operations, and are made in fairly large runs, each and every > one is personally inspected and has to meet the criteria that I > personally have set. > > Gee. this was not meant to be a commercial. I want to apologize to > anyone that takes affront to my using the list for talking about my > product. That was not the purpose, but was meant only to show some of > the differences that occur when you start talking about Art with a > capital A. > > Lee > bonnydoonengineering.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 17:28:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:19:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!WhispyBlu From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: morton Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 19:17:21 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul27.231721.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 7/27/98 5:43:15 PM Central Daylight Time, morn@nac.net writes: << yeah, but what's the point? >> I personally do not like having little chips/slivers/pieces of glass on my work surface when I'm cutting glass. The Morton work surface allows those little pieces a place to go so I don't have to continuously brush off the work surface. This is just my preference. Lu Ann ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 17:41:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 16:53:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Katherine Coull, Glass Artist? Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 19:55:06 +0000 Message-ID: <199807280142.VAA02540@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk All Guild members, suppliers, and participants in this list: One of the recent members of the Guild, Katherine Coull, and her husband, Robert, gave us an address in Chapala, Jalisco, Mexico ... but no phone, fax or email. Okay, we understand not wanting to give those out, but her membership kit came back today marked "undeliverable," so maybe we've got something wrong in their address ... or perhaps they've moved. If you know Katherine or Robert, or how to get in touch with them, I'd really like to know, since I'd like to get their member materials to them, as well as have their correct address. Please let me know, would you? Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 18:15:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:41:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: leestat7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Concurrent discussion on Modern tools and Art Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 20:38:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul27.163859.0> References: <<1998Jul27.15644.0>> Precedence: bulk leestat7 wrote: > > Just wanted to share with you all. This is a concurrent discussion on > modern tools and art on the "ArtMetal" list I also belong too. I > laughed so hard I think I snapped another rib. Oh Well. For the newer > members the ArtMetal site has reams of info on metals, patinas, jewelry, > large and small sculptures etc. For anyone that has some interest in > those things. > > Happy Summer everyone > > Lee Boe > Rain-Boe's Creations > > > > > > > > HeathSatow@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 7/26/98 8:29:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, romeug@erols.com > > > writes: > > > > > > > > Of course it would be ignorant to slag art simply because it is > > > > created > > > > > with modern tools, but it should reflect that advantage. > > > > > > Actually, I think Robin NAILED it on the head right there with: "it should > > > reflect that advantage." I can't think of a better way to put it. But I will > > > explain why I think that nails it. :) > > > > > > If you can do something better with a technology, use it. If something will > > > be truly lost by using a certain tool, don't use it. If your goal is to > > > create as much as you can in whatever little time we are each given, why not > > > use a certain technology to do more. > > > > > > If you can sculpt a nine inch tall piece of granite over the span of your > > > entire life by only rubbing the stone 20 hours a day with your bare hands, and > > > your goal is to make a perfect sphere, great. Go for it. You'll have spent > > > your life making one stone ball. It might have been some great Zen > > > experience, but that's not for everybody. If my goal is to make a huge > > > installation of 10,000 nine-inch diameter granite spheres, I can have them > > > turned by machines, and spend my time coming up with new ideas, like > > > installations of 20,000 spheres. > > > > > > Whatever. > > > > > > Make things how YOU need to make them. If someone else wants to critique it, > > > fine, but let them first judge the piece itself, before they even know the > > > process. > > > > > > Rubbing your balls may give the audience a gee-whiz factor, but that ain't > > > necessarily art. > > > > > > -Heath Satow > > > > Heath!!!!!!This is supposed to be a clean forum!!!!ROFL > > > > As you know, I make tools that assist others in making art. I happen to > > feel that my tools are art, and at least a few of you agree. I have to > > approach my work from a slightly different point of view from most of > > you because of the price difference. > > When I design a piece, the first thing that I have to think about is how > > to build the tooling, what fixtures to build, which machines to do the > > work on, cycle times, machine loading, etc. > > For example, I have just designed a line of delrin dead-blow hammers > > that have a cross-peen on one end and interchangable faces on the other > > that have different radii domes on the other. These range from a 1" > > radius ball to flat in five steps. They are available in both 12oz and > > 16oz versions. > > If I were to make them as I did the prototypes, absolutely nobody could > > afford them! Each one was hand-made (using the mill and lathe, but all > > hand controlled, with total risk of failure at each step of the way). > > The next step after making the samples was to verify that they were the > > weight that I was shooting for by adding the proper amount of lead shot, > > and that they truely did not "bounce". After that, I started to build > > the fixtures, which includes a four station indexing table set up on > > automatic indexing, clamping and unclamping on the horizontal mill for > > cutting of the 15 degree bevels for creating the cross peen. > > To me, this is where the creative process comes into play.Understanding > > and recognising the unmet need in the marketplace, the designing of the > > piece, designing of the fixtures, designing of the advertising, the > > marketing, sending out sample sets to friends for their feedback, etc. > > All of this is part of the creative process, not just the piece by > > itself. > > I function as a two person shop, and I have chosen a particular niche > > that very few others are choosing to work in. Given this niche, and the > > prices that I charge, I cannot afford to "hand make" every piece. That > > does not change the fact that I regard them as works of art. There is a > > level of skill and attention to detail that goes into each and every > > one, all of the way down to the packaging. > > There is an inspection method used in industry reffered to as: AQL > > meaning "acceptable quality level". Basically, it is a sampling method > > where you inspect one part out of ..... If this part meets all specs. > > the entire lot is passed. It is actually much more elaborate than this, > > but this gives you the general idea. > > Even though my tools are "machine made" and in some cases go through > > programmed operations, and are made in fairly large runs, each and every > > one is personally inspected and has to meet the criteria that I > > personally have set. > > > > Gee. this was not meant to be a commercial. I want to apologize to > > anyone that takes affront to my using the list for talking about my > > product. That was not the purpose, but was meant only to show some of > > the differences that occur when you start talking about Art with a > > capital A. > > > > Lee > > bonnydoonengineering.com > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass how do you join that list? ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 18:43:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:47:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: Albert Lewis Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: ArtMetal List address Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 19:20:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul27.152021.0> References: <<199807271418.KAA23761@vger.vgernet.net>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk http://www.artmetal.com/about.html Sorry about that, meant to include the addy of the list for any who are interested. Lee Boe ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 19:06:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 18:16:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: warner-criv.com!charles From: "Charles Warner" To: "Carol" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Morton & GlassVisions Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 21:13:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul27.171355.0> Precedence: bulk > i might have bought Morton, but I never figured out a good technique to > remove the glass crumbs from the surface (with out too much extra work). > and also you would never be able to cut pieces smaller then a 1/2" x > 1/2" on the surface. Yes, smaller pieces can be cut with the Morton system. How to do it would depend on the type of piece cut. An obvious method would be to place a piece of plastic on the surface that is thin enough that it will not interfere with the stops, this will keep the glass out of the squares. The exact way to do this is simple although I am not sure how to write about it. Don Abel from Morton will demonstrate his system at GlassVisions on August 22 & 23 (Saturday and Sunday). Last year he was so swamped with interested people that he didn't even get a chance to have lunch! (That was a one-day show, this year it is two days.) See the list of other vendors and demonstrations at: http://www.glassvisions.com Charles Warner Warner-Crivellaro ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 19:45:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 19:16:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: morton Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 22:11:37 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul28.21137.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 7/27/98 8:29:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, WhispyBlu@aol.com writes: << personally do not like having little chips/slivers/pieces of glass on my work surface when I'm cutting glass. The Morton work surface allows those little pieces a place to go so I don't have to continuously brush off the work surface. This is just my preference. >> My preference also and I just today ordered the larger one. I only use the work surface though but have decided to look into the safety break if I ever get to a store that carries it to see how it works. I have two cats who like to "help" me with whatever I'm working on. I prefer the little chips to be down in the cubes of the Morton instead of on the floor or work table. When it starts to fill up, I use an empty 20 lb. cat food bag, put the whole board in the bag (Science Diet - the bag is really heavy and lined with plastic) and give it a couple of whacks and it's clean. When the bag starts to get heavy, I start a new one. The trouble with using a garbage can is it has to be emptied once in a while and then where do you put it so the garbage man doesn't get a surprise. I don't think the fluorescent covers would work because they don't have a bottom and the chips would fall through and defeat the purpose. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 21:17:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 20:57:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: BMarhon@aol.com, glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Morton work surface and shop Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 23:53:52, -0500 Message-ID: <199807280353.XAA18104@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk I like the large Morton work surface by itself because it allows the glass chips to fall to the bottom and be caught there for occasional emptying. This is a great way to avoid having a chip of glass under the glass you are scoring and having the glass break half way through the score. If this happens to you a few times you will come to like the work surface a lot. Also it is not likely to scratch the glass. I have tried the florescent light covers (about $5.50 at Home Depot) that look like the Morton work surface without the bottom. They seem to be made of a harder plastic and did not allow plugging in the Morton work shop accessories. You can cut on them but that is about all. I scraped mine. I like the work shop because it allows for quick repeative cutting of simple shapes. Where time is money these quickly pay for themselves. Of course you can set things up wrong and everything you cut will be wrong. These products have been on the market for over 12 years and they are still selling strong. I sell them but do not ship. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *Thanks, America.* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Mon Jul 27 21:28:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 21:01:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, MollysGlass@sprintmail.com Subject: cats Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 00:00:48, -0500 Message-ID: <199807280400.AAA14040@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>A couple of weeks ago we talked about cats and the good fortune they bring. Well, I did a show this weekend and my icing on the cake was selling my "Samantha" window to a lovely couple. It never fails when I make a cat window it doesn't stay in inventory very long. My daughter was very sad because she had grand ideas of taking the window to her new apartment at college in a couple of weeks. Oh, well. Molly<< Molly, Someone should have told you. Never, never make a SG piece with a cat in it if you want to keep it. Do not do any cat work unless you want to be swamped with orders from people you know and don't know. Having a cat in the studio is bad enough what with all the customers they soften up. I am glad that you seem to have qualified the luckey owners of your Samantha window. Had A cat by that name once. A real doll. Bob (mother of Freeway) ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *Thanks, America.* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 28 01:22:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 00:51:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, MISGLAS@aol.com Subject: New in town Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 03:48:44, -0500 Message-ID: <199807280748.DAA16958@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>I recently relocated to a different state. (I'm a trailing spouse) Have been doing glass for 10 yrs as a hobby and therapy while working in corporate america and don't want to go back to that arena ever again. I want to expand my glass art into a real business. I can teach but don't know if I want to go that way. I'm in a pretty artsy area (Madison, Wisconsin) Any suggestions from the group on how to proceed? Your help would be greatly appreciated. I really enjoy this group and have learned alot of "tips". Also check out my website. I know it needs work, but it sure was fun to create. I want to expand in that area as well. http://members.aol.com/misglas/index.htm Thanks all. Kathi Poyneer<< I would suggest checking out every stained glass business in the local phone book. That should give you a good idea of what is happening in the SG world in your area. Do not be surprised if half of the listings are little or no competition. Ask plenty of questions. Most SG people will be happy to provide full replies, some will not. The ones that do not provide honest answers probably do not have much to offer anyway. You may well find that a SG studio will welcome a teacher. That would be a start. Frequently studios need part time help when orders bunch up. Good luck, Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *Thanks, America.* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 28 01:55:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 01:30:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10 From: "M. Savad" (by way of Barbara ) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: about the morton...Re:Was - What would you buy Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 04:26:44 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980728042644.006be8d0@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> Precedence: bulk Another place to locate the honeycomb structure and price compare is in a restuarant supply house. Bartenders use this type of surface to place glasses upon so as to air dry without streaking or gathering moisture. Barbara Daniel M. German wrote: > > Mizzi Frank at MITTS twists the bytes to say: > > Mizzi> Greetings, > Mizzi> It seems that the MORTON cutting surface and matching tools are very high on the > Mizzi> WHAT WOULD YOU BUY list. > > Mizzi> I would like to buy one so is there anybody in here who sells them and would > Mizzi> like to contact me at frankmizzi@hotmail.com about an actual purchase? > Mizzi> Thanks > > Some time ago, when I saw the morton for the first time, I thought it > was great. I did not want to invest the money to buy, instead, I > started using the top of my Inland as a cutting surface (I was making > a lamp with small pieces and it was enough). The surface works > beautifully. > > If I am correct, in the "honeycomb" of the Morton, the surface has a > backing. therefore the glass slivers don't fall. I have decided that I > don't like this. I prefer to have a honeycomb with no backing --as the > top of the grinder; this makes it easier to clean (just remove it, all > the glass "crumbs" will stay in the table. > > Where to find it? I have not had a chance to go to Home Depot, but I > am sure that I can buy that cover for fluorescent light boxes that is > identical in shape. I am also confident it will be cheaper. > > Just a thought. > > -- > Daniel M. German "There is no national science as > there is no national multiplication table; > Anton Chekov -> what is national is no longer science." > http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html > dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca > > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass sure, almost any hardware or lighting store should have it. it's the stuff you use for the flourescent lights. should be a whole lot cheaper then morton... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 28 04:27:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 04:02:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: morton Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 07:00:20 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul28.11020.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Charles! I want to try the safety break to see if it breaks out curves and irregular round shapes (like flower petals in Uroboros). I have no trouble breaking straight pieces using running pliers. If there is a better description of what the safety break actually does than what is in the catalog, you can include it in my order for the work surface. As for stores, we have two, both extremely expensive and not very helpful (understaffed on Saturdays, the only day I can get there). I have not seen the Morton system out on their shelves or in use in the work rooms and have not thought about asking if they carry it the few times I've been in their stores. I am planning to take a few one-day seminars (on box making and kaleidescopes) and hopefully will be able to ask about it then. I used to live 30 minutes from your store and really miss being close enough to shop there. But because of the store situation here in South Florida, you will probably have me as a mail order customer for quite a while! In a message dated 7/27/98 11:00:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, charles@warner- criv.com writes: << Subj: Re: morton Date: 7/27/98 11:00:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: charles@warner-criv.com (Charles Warner) Reply-to: charles@warner-criv.com To: BMarhon@aol.com BMarhon@aol.com wrote: > My preference also and I just today ordered the > larger one. I only use the > work surface though but have decided to look > into the safety break if I ever > get to a store that carries it to see how it > works. The Safety Break works on the same principle as running pliers with the additional benefit of being able to place the running pressure anywhere on a sheet of glass. It is simple to use Just curious... Morton puts on a big big push to have their tools in retail stores, don't the stores in your area carry Morton tools? Charles Warner Warner-Crivellaro >> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 28 06:59:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 06:27:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: morton Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:24:35 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul28.52435.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:BMarhon@aol.com >The trouble with using a garbage can is it has to be emptied once in a while and then where do you put it = so the garbage man doesn't get a surprise.< I use tough plastic boxes with lids. I get these free from the local water ice (ice cream) stand. These containers are used to bring in the various water ice flavorings. These water ice stands have hundreds of them to give away. They are the perfect strength, regidity, heigth, etc. for holding scrap glass safely. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 28 08:01:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 07:44:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ibm.net!croch From: croch@ibm.net To: "Glass" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: First Lamp Project - Help Requested! Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 07:45:55 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul28.04555.0> Precedence: bulk Hi All - It's finally super hot in Seattle area, too! And the interminable "fish lips" window is finally done. I may even scan a photo some day and let you all see my "learnings" (read that as mistakes!) - And now on to my first lamp - an eight panelled geometric design to hang over the table - I know nothing about the physics of making the lamp as strong as possible so it won't sway, sag, slump, drag, whatever - Do I grind the panel edges with an edging grinder head so that they meet more flushly (is there such a word?) Or do I run a copper? wire down that usual space so that the lamp will have more strength? Where and how do I strengthen the lamp? Any and all suggestions appreciated - Oops - one more - is it worth it to buy one of the foam forms to support the panels while soldering? Thanks so very much! You all have provided me with a wealth of info and I appreciate it muchly! Namaste' Carol ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 28 08:33:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:05:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: one.net!kleeman From: one.net!kleeman To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: morton safety break Date: Tue Jul 28 08:03:47 1998 Message-ID: <19980728150323Z25339-17502+405@mail.one.net> Precedence: bulk hi anyone interested in the morton safety break and not sure about it--i have been using one for about three years and love it i don't do any glass without it--especially intricate and tight curves the best thing to do is to start the run on one end of the glass, then turn it around to meet the run from the other end of the glass--the score will then just snap apart i do not use the button a whole lot, i do use the hand held one all the time--along with the morton grid and the portable glass shop--two years ago christmas--i cut out four geometric lampshades (eight sided and 20" across) in about two hours, all fit perfect (with bullseye glass) another tool to consider if you do a lot of tough breakouts is the m-80--i don't use it a lot, but when i need it, i am really glad i have it if you get a portable glass shop, there is an old video that goes through the uses of the equipment on a step by step basis--really good to have--i don't have one anymore, but would love to have another copy all this discussion about groziers and grinders--if you think groziers are great, the safety break is definitely the tool for you--as far as running pliers, you don't get those little nibs at the beginning and end of the score like you do with running pliers (sounds like don abel needs to pay me some advertising) thanx debbie taylor ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 28 08:55:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:05:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: morton Date: Tue, 28 Jul 98 07:25:22 -0700 Message-ID: References: <<1998Jul28.21137.0>> Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk BMarhon@aol.com wrote: > I don't think the fluorescent covers would work because they don't have a > bottom and the chips would fall through and defeat the purpose. actually, i use a fluorescent cover. i just cut a piece of 3/4" plywood the same size + 3/4", and added a strip of quarter round on two edges. this gives me: a) the same thing as a morton, where i just lift up the cover and then dump the chips in my trash bin, and b) a perfectly square board to build against to true up the corners of pieces. --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 28 09:03:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:26:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: croch@ibm.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: First Lamp Project - Help Requested! Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:24:14 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul28.72414.0> References: <<1998Jul28.04555.0>> Precedence: bulk croch@ibm.net wrote: > > Hi All - It's finally super hot in Seattle area, too! And the interminable > "fish lips" window is finally done. I may even scan a photo some day and > let you all see my "learnings" (read that as mistakes!) - > And now on to my first lamp - an eight panelled geometric design to hang > over the table - I know nothing about the physics of making the lamp as > strong as possible so it won't sway, sag, slump, drag, whatever - > Do I grind the panel edges with an edging grinder head so that they meet > more flushly (is there such a word?) > Or do I run a copper? wire down that usual space so that the lamp will > have more strength? > Where and how do I strengthen the lamp? > Any and all suggestions appreciated - > Oops - one more - is it worth it to buy one of the foam forms to support the > panels while soldering? > Thanks so very much! You all have provided me with a wealth of info and I > appreciate it muchly! > Namaste' Carol > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the grinder edger is'nt necessary. it's actually a little stronger if you have the slightly wider solder seams. you could put wire down the seams, but it won't help much strength wise. you'll want to put wire around the bottom edge, and the top edge though. when you solder the cap on, you should solder it completly on the inside (for max strength). the blocks, you really don't need. but they are helpfull to have. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 28 09:26:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:37:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: , "Glass" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: First Lamp Project - Help Requested! Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:37:54 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul28.13754.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Carol, there SHOULD BE a deep discourse on design, mathematics and probably a comment from me on the uselessness of the bevel grinding bits "designed" for lamps. Look in archives! enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 28 09:38:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:42:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: morton Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 16:39:44 +0100 Message-ID: <1998Jul28.173944.0> Precedence: bulk Hi, BMarhon, I can't resist interrupting your dialogue with Charles about retail stores. Is Fernandina Beach in Florida anywhere near you? If so Walter and Rhonda of Glass Safari may be of help in getting supplies. email them at tcn@net-magic.net Regards Elizabeth Elizabeth Law (Bournemouth Stained Glass) http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 28 11:08:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 10:32:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: morton Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:29:41 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul28.172941.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-07-27 18:43:47 EDT, you write: > yeah, but what's the point? i personally like to only have to brush the > surface off real quick. instead of dragging out a vaccuum, to clean it. > and of course, upside down, makes it harder to use the angle > attachments... so, what then pull out the vacuum to clean the floor next ? I'd much rather have the small glass pieces in one location than spread out across the floor. deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 28 11:36:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:23:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ll.mit.edu!cogen From: David Cogen To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: morton Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 14:21:24 -0400 Message-ID: <199807281818.OAA18480@ll.mit.edu> Precedence: bulk It's not a good idea to vacuum glass dust. All the slivers go into the bag, but the harmful stuff (microscopic silica dust) goes right through the bag into the air. (Unless it's a HEPA vacuum, which few are.) Better to spray with water from a spray bottle and gently sweep with a hand broom. -- David ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 28 12:11:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:52:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "bungi" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: morton/ fuss Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:52:11 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul28.45211.0> Precedence: bulk What is all the "fuss" over chips...I just let them pile up....if you are using the Morton for stripping and geometric and or straight line cutting, you should be generating VERY few chips. When I groze and or break to the score line, I just drop the scrap (very small pieces from shade work) into milk containers and use different ones for each color I use. This method segregates the colors (politically correct????) and when I get to do the mosaic I have been trying to find time for, the small pieces easy to use. enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 28 12:43:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:02:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: "Christie A. Wood" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: morton Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:24:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul28.92442.0> References: <<1998Jul28.52435.0>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk The best tool I have found for difficult curvy cuts is the "Glastar-Ring star' you can start the break at the most difficult part and gradually 'run' it to either end. This is easier to show, than try to tell. I use both the small and large Morton surfaces, along with the 'Tiny turn table' that snaps into the Morton. The small Morton surface is in the 'light box' kit that I made up, and all is sturdy enough that they will last as long as I'm doing glass- maybe 20 more years, with no replacement. I use the end of the vacuum hose to suck up the glass slivers, and have never had one cut the vac bag (heavy paper). I also use the morton safety break tools, the button especially. One thing that helps prevent 'flares' on the start of a straight break is a 1/16 smallest brass tube. (the inside of the hinge system) put it at the bottom ruler, and the glass cutter will start right at the edge. The Emerald Rainbow cutting board gets a work out too, for strips and triangles. It was their system that comes with the little tube and instructions. The 'Little wedgies' are worth their weight in gold for positioning odd size boxes for soldering. I expect them to last my lifetime also. So any tools I buy that I expect to outlive me, will be a 'cheap' investment. The Taurus 2.2 ring saw has already paid for itself in the unusual boxes I designed for geode slabs. It does require maintenance though, and may need to be replaced in 2-6 years (that's a guess). It all comes down to what type of glass work you are doing. Another tip if you do boxes is use 1/16 brass welding rod (it comes 3 feet long) get a package from your local welding supply. 3 pounds will last along time. This is for the inside hinges, instead of the small tube. Doesn't break so easy. Christie A. Wood wrote: > > Message text written by INTERNET:BMarhon@aol.com > >The trouble with using a garbage > can is it has to be emptied once in a while and then where do you put it = > so > the garbage man doesn't get a surprise.< > > I use tough plastic boxes with lids. I get these free from the local > water ice (ice cream) stand. These containers are used to bring > in the various water ice flavorings. These water ice stands have > hundreds of them to give away. They are the perfect strength, > regidity, heigth, etc. for holding scrap glass safely. > > Christie A. Wood > Art Glass Ensembles > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 28 16:14:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 15:53:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: morton safety break Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 22:41:43 +0000 Message-ID: <199807282145.WAA12154@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hi all, Back to tools again. When I first saw the "Morton Safety Break" system here in UK..... and the almost 20 dollars price tag on it, I laughed out loud. A small lump of plastic, a button and a piece of string.... The button almost identical to a children's game called "tiddly-winks" For gratis for free, for nothing, one can use an ordinary large cardigan button (flat one side, slightly convex the other), a piece of packing polystyrene (the type that surrounds electrical equipment, printers, and such like...), cut to size. The piece of string found anywhere..... surely.. For my students on very budgets, yet who love "gizmos", I demonstrate my GRATIS polystyrene and button technique with great effect. If this is the technique for breaking out glass "to die for", then I have saved them 20 dollars, that I would much rather they used on good quality glass or a better quality "traditional & timeless" tool.... or who knows.... even the first instalment towards a ...grinder.... ;-> My advice to ANY beginner, ANY learner: Look closely at the "gizmos" made, marketed and offered to you. Can you improvise and do better yourself??! IS the price really reasonable?? The idea about buying fluorescent gight frids or drinking glass grids for cutting boards, is a point in case.(The beer glass drying hadn't occurred to me before!!) Wonderful ideas... and "pat on the back" to those who brought up these ideas!! All at a FRACTION of the cost of Morton this or that!! England with its tradition of pubs and beer drinking and - in deed the need for drying glasses quickly... I will myself investigate alternatives for my students based on the ideas "volleyed" around on this subject. The Morton "thinga-me-jig" for this purpose is over here "Across The Pond" totally "silly money" . Such silly money, that I haven't even bothered to consider it seriously for myself OR - even less - for my students. I dare say, people like Charles just love to "hate" people like ME!! Good thing that he is a good friend!!! ;-) As a FOOTNOTE, I would be interested to hear from TEACHERS , teaching beginners how they cost out the materials used for a student's "first" leaded panel, measuring approx. 12" X 12", including ALL practice glass (in learning how to cut glass in the first place), waste, changes of minds and bad leading & soldering , right through to completion (i.e. cementing, polishing etc) over a duration of approx. 4-5 months. I emphasize, I would like to hear fromTEACHERS who have taught for some years (local government or privately) and who have had to work out some kind of "flat fee" for what to charge for materials for a specific sized panel from a a group of 20-25 total beginners....... I don't want to get into the ballgame of the argument of what STUDENTS feel.... been there already... on a different subject. I have a specific reason for my request, which has to do with "regional politics". I just happen to be a personality that needs to get my position 200 percent "right" , rather than just 100 per cent.... Toby is getting into "growl mood" as I am ducking..... P.S. EliZabeth in Bournemouth... thank you so much for the Quotation from Lewis. Bang on the nail!! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK debbie taylor wrote: > hi > anyone interested in the morton safety break and not sure about it--i have > been using one for about three years and love it > i don't do any glass without it--especially intricate and tight curves > > the best thing to do is to start the run on one end of the glass, then turn > it around to meet the run from the other end of the glass--the score will > then just snap apart > > i do not use the button a whole lot, i do use the hand held one all the > time--along with the morton grid and the portable glass shop--two years ago > christmas--i cut out four geometric lampshades (eight sided and 20" across) > in about two hours, all fit perfect > (with bullseye glass) > > another tool to consider if you do a lot of tough breakouts is the m-80--i > don't use it a lot, but when i need it, i am really glad i have it > > if you get a portable glass shop, there is an old video that goes through > the uses of the equipment on a step by step basis--really good to have--i > don't have one anymore, but would love to have another copy > > all this discussion about groziers and grinders--if you think groziers are > great, the safety break is definitely the tool for you--as far as running > pliers, you don't get those little nibs at the beginning and end of the > score like you do with running pliers > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 28 17:09:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 16:44:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: application/x-nextmail Subject: Re: welding rod hinges Date: Tue, 28 Jul 98 16:41:05 -0700 Message-ID: Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk begin 600 .tar.836.Re__welding_rod_hing.attach M'YV0+EX`&$BPH,&#"!,J7,BPH4.$(&C`N'&C!@@`(&+8F%&#QD40($'"^!BR MI$B0-FK4N$'#!@P;,F*`C`&#I@R,-1[JW,FSIT\`=>;0"2,')(`Q:(BR25/F MI\$[:,J48>.TJM6K6+-JW?HPC1LR9?"XD$/'#->S:`'0?&G#(T:-'-V:'(G1 M9$09,&2@5,G2)4R9&36VQ0@CK>'#0(42-8I4*5.L4*5214RYLN7+5].`$#.5 MJ9TR(.@DI0."C5007NF4^5J&3&@T:>:$?@/B#&TZMZ.6CDW'A8(6P!4,22K' MM.PI<-+0T5-&CH+&Q9D"":/'A5`Y8>@$=3'F31L%4-"\69T&#PL00;0H6"^D MS!FO(,R\D7.'*%C7;/EQYYT/"A"1W7\@4%%'&>?)@`,(2M3!1D8YY#!B##GH,(,,.M`$0@LP2`2# M`D;(X=V"#BH6(8,]0B@AA658V`:&`L+!1AXM4/$&CU+Y.*1W17;WW1-RG!&& M&VGHD5T:;[BQ(!!(4`F"$P/>,=\:"CBYX'!*Z0<"'?'.LAH1F8: M?,,J4&R6S85&:)$@M3=&&,&"D(>NFZT&K6YSM!%&KOO M;,]A-\8:()`;+6=?G9>&&?KJ6M2II-TK1QEFF'@K>FS,D1MHM#YJ:;7K8MJK M&6847/%7(!`'5E$"*YO&P!J3)O`:(7M&&7DYP9I\-E!%)A!*0"' MCH8B.H?!NHF!*FYM@/`&Q\6V`8=L`XYQ\JC^B:O;N\ZL`Y,ZAO,N:$` MN6&$ED9^LXIGW,"@J8P:U+*!_&ISLJJZVAQI?.8LSDF<$/8<=8S\6G.@$56& M`JA&513F<"C)E!RRC?T:N8\Z#7F8FV&W'\.0WAJ$T+*V3"WI2N:AP!SBP7'> M#-_JBC.X$Z?.<;235JQY&%[701H)-+D``PPGERA4:6^\0;1K%D=E=1@3]P?B MYL]KWNNOT"<+0@TC$6\&:9.:Z\;FWY*_QGF&NQI;;6^`E`)P4YHP;*]O;`A3 MI.CP-WI5`5T@.`%4E%.&%B3K!!5S&V@PMJ[[,<]:YYD-"(A6!C@,$&!O8,/. MXJ.CL,FA#F[@TLM2LS*Y39TG7SJ"(;2Z M)YKD)`\U]RL#^=``@H<1D(1PP)_*5!BO9-UJ/530C8@T/H4(-Q[8DJS"!9BH03(IL^L:9 MA,4K/Z(Y6N7`5[J1C>%GJAGAJ>X@P/9)[W`G"R.QE*,PT(SL#"9:S!EEHX:@ MD(8,83H!:=0D!XKAAC:T.A&[8(.I,)1N*?=B8)B^J``FG$8(XU&`%%AE(&26 MX02R&<+(OA0F3+$"#0F#@PY>\(([>-,%8H#A>XST@C,4:S\O2,,9M%1&9GJM M#"]8#PB$0QSCS"DYRXG7'72D&@#Y8)[_S-6N]HFJ_RC@GSR8`Y?@@*%__C,( M(!.=W[*XL8[M"I:;>0,@S26;?,7@!1J)G0%EH[N7-0\%KK*2G&9P4!#\LV8# MXIZE4E";F/8->6LP'PN]8]&B)/!>)RIII'BWI),1#PYU)*FOV-#2?Y[3APE\ M&0,K!)(P_N]_V,+?N=(`EIQ!*I#G4DT87*.Z:`5L8$QUJ-Q.1H3Q*%26L9,B MQ0PGQ3GDP3?_;.G_1/,_J)#+-G*B(?Z8588?W,PU&-W7KM28LS#,T8]UD%6T M"`O%EIISI+P*WAP,>T=8RHFOVPH#T?"W*J:);7FZ(>P-!XFT5; M.K3.>=52+%,.%5MY0)C]H*4M/:5]MM;2/#&EI+ID'/>K!C'C'2][RFO>\Z$VO>M?+WO:Z][WPC:]\YTO? M^MKWOOC-KW[WR]_^^O>_``ZP@`=,X`(;^,`(3K""%\S@!COXP1".L(0G3.$* M6_C"&,ZPAC?,X0Y[^,,@#K&(1TSB$IOXQ"A.L8I7S.(6N_C%,(ZQC&=,XQKW !%_C" ` end ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 28 18:11:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 18:01:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "Toby" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: teaching/costs Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:55:58 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul28.105558.0> Precedence: bulk I hope my 15+ years of teaching (privately) is enough to marginally qualify to expound on some of my methods. Since you are working within a given parameter, 1sqft, you have the ability (teacher?) to limit the amount of pieces as well. It should not be difficult to figure out many running feet of lead, average cost of glass per sqft. Limit it to 5 colors (glass) and so much of each color to complete the pattern. You may EVEN suggest they use some specific patterns. Let them play with a bit of window glass, SELL them the colored glass, a couple of came strips and a roll of solder. For instance if you have to list a materials fee, tuition, usage fees and perhaps other b/s fees, figure it at retail and be a "sport" should someone need a few more pieces, give it away.I would think you make a few pounds on selling supplies and equipment as well. It takes HOW LONG to do a one sqft window???? According to your class time schedule you have mentioned 4 to 5 MONTHS...I can get my beginners to finish a small dome shade in that time frame. enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 28 18:33:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:38:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: VERY IMPORTANT !!! Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 20:36:47 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul29.03647.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 7/27/98 5:16:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wc.c@crnci1.com writes: << Subj: VERY IMPORTANT !!! Date: 7/27/98 5:16:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: wc.c@crnci1.com To: wc.c@crnci1.com Dear Friend: This is an extremely IMPORTANT announcement for you! iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' Your Future May Depend on it!!! iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii >> and on and on and... Did anyone else receive this? It looks like it came through bungi. I hope not. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 28 18:41:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:51:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: Toby Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: morton safety break Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 19:46:43 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul28.154643.0> References: <<199807282145.WAA12154@saturn.nildram.co.uk>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Elisabeth has hit the nail head again, if I had it to do over, I could certainly improvise, for free, or little cost, most of the gadgets I use. However, now that I've used them for quite a while, if they ever break, will improvise next time. And now that I know more what I'm doing (still learning), tend to make or improvise more of the tools as I need them. For anyone starting out, get good glass first, gadgets later. My current 'fid' is 1/2 of a wooden clothes pin, well worn. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/rainboe/ Toby wrote: > > Hi all, > > Back to tools again. > When I first saw the "Morton Safety Break" system here in UK..... and > the almost 20 dollars price tag on it, I laughed out loud. > A small lump of plastic, a button and a piece of string.... > The button almost identical to a children's game called > "tiddly-winks" > > For gratis for free, for nothing, one can use an ordinary > large cardigan button (flat one side, slightly convex the other), a > piece of packing polystyrene (the type that surrounds electrical > equipment, printers, and such like...), cut to size. The piece of > string found anywhere..... surely.. snip Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 28 18:49:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:52:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: Charles Spitzer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: welding rod hinges Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 19:32:10 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul28.153210.0> References: <> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Hi Charlie, Yes, I did not explain it very well. You still use the larger outer tube, and the welding rod forms the hinge part that is inserted in the larger tube. Because you bend the smaller, the little tubes tend to crack at the bend, if your not careful. Also the welding rod is stiffer, and harder material, it makes good reinforcement in various projects, the bottom of lamps etc. I get the larger tubes several dozen at a time wholesale so it is not very expensive, and I'm sure there are other suppliers of that dimension brass tubing. At my welding supply shop, 3 pound packs of the rod are about $10.00. Just looked at the package, there are still about 50 3 ft rods in the pack, so it is going to last a long time. Use 'white-out' at the bend in the rod, to keep the solder from running into the tube, and when first attaching the large tube, use round toothpicks in each end to keep the solder out. The Tube/rod hinge is still the best way I have found for attaching lids to boxes, if any one else has a better method I'd appreciate knowing about it. The little regular hinges just don't work too well in this application. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/rainboe/ Charles Spitzer wrote: > > You wrote: > > > Another tip if you do boxes is use 1/16 brass welding rod (it comes 3 > > feet long) get a package from your local welding supply. 3 pounds will > > last along time. This is for the inside hinges, instead of the small > > tube. Doesn't break so easy. > > is this what goes into the tube? and do you still have to buy the tube in > glass shops? or does this take the place of the tube, and if so, how do you > make a hinge with just a rod? > > regards, > charlie > --- > Charles Spitzer > charlie@az.stratus.com > Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 28 18:55:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 18:25:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: flash.net!cat13 From: Carol To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: morton Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 20:16:54 +0000 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980728201654.007a7100@pop.flash.net> Precedence: bulk Message text written by INTERNET:BMarhon@aol.com >The trouble with using a garbage can is it has to be emptied once in a while and then where do you put it so >the garbage man doesn't get a surprise. This is a valid concern. I empty my morton board into a plastic trash bag inside the garbage can which also gets filled with paper trash and burger king bags so it gets emptied regularly. The only glass that goes in it is from the morton board so it's very very tiny pieces and slivers. Anything too big to fall inside the morton board and too small to save for scrap goes into a cardboard box which, when full, gets taped closed and marked "warning: sharp glass pieces inside". Both the cardboard box and the plastic trash bag go into a huge dumpster, which is emptied by a huge truck. -Carol ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 28 19:27:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 18:38:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!BMarhon From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Returned mail: Host unknown Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 21:37:32 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul29.13732.0> Precedence: bulk Elisabeth: Tried to send this directly to your email address, but it came back with a permanent fatal error for your address. Sounds serious - hope you're all right. << In a message dated 7/28/98 12:39:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, studio@stainedglass.co.uk writes: << Is Fernandina Beach in Florida anywhere near you? >> Nope - it's 30 minutes north of Jacksonville, which is about five-six hours north of me. I'm in South Florida between Miami and Fort Lauderdale on the east coast. But thanks for thinking of me. Brenda Marhon >> ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 28 19:42:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 18:43:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: email.com.US!717-282 From: 717-282@email.com.US To: 717-282@email.com.US Subject: BUSINESS PROCESS IMPROVEMENT WORKSH Date: 28 Jul 1998 21:15:18 +0300 Message-ID: <1998Jul29.01518.0> Precedence: bulk "The visionary must be able to communicate what he has dreamed, and his company must have the panoply of technical skills needed to execute it." 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Register now! Call: (905)542-9400, Fax:(905) 542-3521 or use the registration form below. REGISTRATION FORM CROSSING BOUNDARIES - BUSINESS PROCESS IMPROVEMENT WORKSHOP Participant Name: _______________________ Title________________________ Company:___________________________________________________ Telephone: (____)______-_______Fax: (____)______-_______ Address: ___________________________________________________ City _____________Province/State_________Postal Code/Zip____ ____ Fees: $795 U.S.D per personRegister me Date Location # of People Fees ____/____/____ ___________ ____________________ ________ ____/____/____ ___________ ____________________ ________ ____/____/____ ___________ ____________________ ________ PAYMENT TOTAL: = ______ Mail Registration Form and Cheque to: Advanced Knowledge Innovations Inc. Suite 400, 201 City CentreDrive Mississauga, Ont, L5B 2T4 Canada Advanced Knowledge Innovations Inc. 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CALL (905) 542-9400 ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 28 19:50:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 19:15:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!CWWSLW From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: welding rod hinges Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 22:11:43 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul29.21143.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 7/28/98 8:50:41 PM Central Daylight Time, leestat7@home.com writes: << Use 'white-out' at the bend in the rod, to keep the solder from running into the tube, and when first attaching the large tube, use round toothpicks in each end to keep the solder out. >> Well, kiss my grits !!! I never thought about using toothpicks in the ends of the rod to keep solder out!! GREAT IDEA. I think I'll go make a box..... Susan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 28 20:23:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 19:43:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: VERY IMPORTANT !!! (not) Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 22:48:57 +0000 Message-ID: <199807290434.AAA17942@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Did anyone else receive this? It looks like it came through bungi. I hope > not. Sometimes spam slips through. Not often. But sometimes. Just delete it, recognizing it for what it is. A ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 28 20:38:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 19:43:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: morton safety break Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 22:48:57 +0000 Message-ID: <199807290434.AAA17938@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > ideas "volleyed" around on this subject. The Morton "thinga-me-jig" > for this purpose is over here "Across The Pond" totally "silly > money" . Yes, there was an article about a major installation here in the States recently, the author of the article was (apparently) so indebted to one of the advertisers, that it was mentioned that the studio, called "the fabricator" and never named in fact, used the Morton System to produce the enormous windows for the cathedral in question. When the craftspeople in the studio read that, they looked at each other and asked, "Do we even *own one of those?" They didn't. But the idea that one needs these toys is so pervasive these days that somehow authors even of articles in the so-called "trade press" assume that they're used by professional craftspeople. It's to laugh. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 28 21:23:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 20:57:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, leestat7@home.com Subject: Re: welding rod hinges Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:53:17, -0500 Message-ID: <199807290353.XAA11018@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>The Tube/rod hinge is still the best way I have found for attaching lids to boxes, if any one else has a better method I'd appreciate knowing about it. The little regular hinges just don't work too well in this application. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations<< I do the same. Make the legs of the rod hinge about one inch long and insert into the tubes that are soldered to the sides of the box. That way the lid can be lifted off for cleaning. The little hinges are a thing to be avoided IMHO. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *Thanks, America.* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Tue Jul 28 23:56:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:39:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel Abedi" To: "Bungi Group" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Morton Video Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:30:12 +0800 Message-ID: <1998Jul29.223012.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Everyone, Since Morton is in the thick of discussion, this should a roght time to ask. Where could I get the Morton video? Have read about it, and am sure it will be big help for some who has no teacher for a thousand miles around. Warner/Criv the people I normally buy my supplies don't keep it. I have asked Glasscrafters and Delphi, who, eight days since have not replied. So any help would be a boon. Thanks http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Atrium/2543/ Shakeel Abedi 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Johor Malaysia Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 shakeel@tm.net.my ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 00:28:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 00:00:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: p085.aone.net.au!allcrafts From: Melanie Dunstan To: BMarhon@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: VERY IMPORTANT !!! Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:59:27 +0800 Message-ID: <1998Jul29.225927.0> References: <<1998Jul29.03647.0>> Organization: Allcrafts Goods & Services Precedence: bulk BMarhon@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 7/27/98 5:16:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wc.c@crnci1.com > writes: > > << Subj: VERY IMPORTANT !!! ----- Gidday Barb and Y'all yep I got one. (Somebody sensible please save me from myself - off list please - I found I was seriously contemplating this... heeeeeellp!) -- Melanie Dunstan, in Perth, Australia ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 03:02:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 02:45:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Morton Video Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 05:51:18 +0000 Message-ID: <199807291136.HAA02885@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Where could I get the Morton video? >From Morton? They're listed in the Sources Guide online: Morton Glass Works, Inc., PO Box 465, Morton IL 61550. Phone: (309) 266-5712. Fax: (309) 263-8376. No email that I know of. Hmm. Let me check four11.com Possibly AXE777@aol.com but there's more than one Don Abel. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 03:38:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 03:18:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: anyone going to GV? Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 06:10:40 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul29.101040.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Guys, I will be going to GV at W-C also. I will be there on Sunday only and look forward to meeting other bungies there. Who was the person who said they would make a bungi id to be worn to identify us to each other? Know it was for a different show, but do you have any left? If not, what did you make and how did you make it? Info would be much appreciated! Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 04:41:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 04:07:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel Abedi" To: "Bungi Group" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: SGN #40 Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:15:30 +0800 Message-ID: <1998Jul30.31530.0> Precedence: bulk Hi All Today had a pleasant surprise in the mail. Had asked a question at the SGN and received a book, "Windows of North America" from Mr Randy Wardell. Guys, I was wanting to put some (not many) links on my page, like's Mike's and IGGA and Elisabeth. Do I have to get their permission to do so? Or is a link public domain? Thanks http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Atrium/2543/ Shakeel Abedi 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Johor Malaysia Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 shakeel@tm.net.my ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 05:35:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 05:15:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------4DCF530B3272445A804E7513" Subject: [Fwd: VERY IMPORTANT !!! (not)] Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 07:28:06 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul29.3286.0> Organization: Home Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------4DCF530B3272445A804E7513 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Albert, I received the same spam this morning. One yesterday also. Carol T --------------4DCF530B3272445A804E7513 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: Received: from dev.infoave.net ("port 4185"@[165.166.143.11]) by InfoAve.Net (PMDF V5.1-10 #23426) with ESMTP id <01IZYA1769BO91Y5S9@InfoAve.Net> for ctombro@InfoAve.Net; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:30:22 EDT Received: from daver.bungi.com ("port 2382"@[207.126.97.2]) by DEV.InfoAve.Net (PMDF V5.1-10 #23426) with ESMTP id <01IZYA0WE17O8WWDBG@DEV.InfoAve.Net> for ctombro@infoave.net; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:30:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Tue, 28 Jul 1998 19:43:04 -0700 Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 22:48:57 +0000 From: Albert Lewis Subject: Re: VERY IMPORTANT !!! (not) To: glass@bungi.com Message-id: <199807290434.AAA17942@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk Summary: Authenticated sender is X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis > Did anyone else receive this? It looks like it came through bungi. I hope > not. Sometimes spam slips through. Not often. But sometimes. Just delete it, recognizing it for what it is. A ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass --------------4DCF530B3272445A804E7513-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 05:52:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 05:20:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: yahoo.com!sheila_oh From: Sheila To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Remove Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 05:12:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1998Jul28.22122.0> Precedence: bulk I am relinquishing my lurker seat.....but only temporarily! In the mean time I will have to go thru withdrawals again as I will miss all the great info I receive from everyone. Will be back as soon as possibe to reclaim my seat. Sheila Ohio _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 06:08:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 05:20:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: SGN #40 Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 08:24:56 +0000 Message-ID: <199807291410.KAA06917@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Guys, I was wanting to put some (not many) links on my page, like's Mike's > and IGGA and Elisabeth. Do I have to get their permission to do so? Or is a > link public domain? Without getting overly technical, it's perfectly all right to list links to sites you find interesting or helpful, but not to capture and store on your site any images or pages from other sites. I'm not saying that what you had in mind, Shakeel. It's a form of politeness, you might say, as well as how copyright infringement is avoided. The link to IGGA would read IGGA for example ... the "IGGA" in there could be changed to "International Guild of Glass Artists" or "Cool-O/Neat-O" or whatever. Clicking on it would send the viewer to the Guild's site. Of course, since you're a member of the Guild, you can capture and use the Guild's logo on your site, too. I'll tell you privately where that is and how to get it/link it. Any other links to sites you like or think others would find interesting/helpful can be set up the same way. Albert Albert Lewis, Executive Director International Guild of Glass Artists, Inc. A 501(c)(6) not-for-profit association 54 Cherry St., PO Box 1809, North Adams MA 01247-1809 (413) 663-5512 Fax: (413) 663-7167 _____________________________________________ Home page http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/ Membership http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/benefits.htm Members' work http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/links.htm Sources Guide http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/guide.htm Guild Library http://www.aiap.com/amazon/ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 06:37:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 06:20:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: warner-criv.com!charles From: "Charles Warner" To: "Toby" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: morton safety break Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:19:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul29.51920.0> Precedence: bulk Elisabeth: I was going to make this a private post, then I saw my name. Not to take away from anyone's product in general I agree with the advice. There are a lot of items we sell I would never use or want. We try to make stained glass as inexpensive as possible for everyone. If it is too expensive few people will be able to dabble in it. If they don't dabble in it they will never become professionals in it. We sell gizmos because someone somewhere wants one. If our advice is asked we give it and that advice might be don't buy that. As for the Safety Break-it is a mobile version of running pliers. If you like running pliers you would like the Safety Break. Running pliers will break curves also, this took me twenty years to learn. I stopped encouraging customers to improvise after someone brought a pipe wrench to a class for use as breaking pliers. And yes he used it, he broke glass and broke glass and broke glass, unfortunately it was not breaking along his score but what the heck he didn't care. break, break, break... >My advice to ANY beginner, ANY learner: >Look closely at the "gizmos" made, marketed and offered to you. >Can you improvise and do better yourself??! >IS the price really reasonable?? >.... . Such silly money, that I haven't even bothered to consider >it seriously for myself OR - even less - for my students. I dare >say, people like Charles just love to "hate" people like ME!! Charles Warner ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 07:38:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 07:18:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Cost of teaching materials Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:05:11 +0100 Message-ID: <1998Jul29.16511.0> Precedence: bulk At 22:41 28/07/98 +0000, EliSabeth wrote: >I would be interested to hear from TEACHERS , teaching >beginners how they cost out the materials used for a student's >"first" leaded panel, measuring approx. 12" X 12", including ALL >practice glass (in learning how to cut glass in the first place), >waste, changes of minds and bad leading & soldering , right through >to completion (i.e. cementing, polishing etc). After experiencing the vast difference in students' needs/wastage etc I don't work out a lump sum to cover what materials they will need to use to complete their first project. I suggest that they will usually need to spend about 10 UK pounds (about US dollars 16) on basic materials for their first piece (they all do the same design in clear glass to start) including practice glass, solder, lead, tallow, enough cement, whiting, blacking etc. Then about 7 to 15 pounds on coloured glass (depending on how many different colours they choose to use) and lead which would normally be enough for the two beginners projects that I take students through designing and making after their first piece. As they are actually paying for each individual item it encourages them to consider the consequences of wastage and changing their minds after cutting the glass. I also suggest they swop glass between them if only a small bit is needed, and I encourage them to bring in practice glass or coloured glass "scrounged" from elsewhere. Though I have been known to suggest they save that lovely piece of Hartley Wood gold ruby to use for a special project later rather than destroy it while learning to cut accurately :-) As I teach at Adult Education evening classes (where students have to bring in and take home all their tools and materials each lesson) students tend to "stagger" their purchases, for example buying their lead came for the third lesson, and their coloured glass around the fifth (2 hour) lesson, so the costs are spread out over a few weeks. Even in a college setting where there is storage space and a budget for a core of materials and it would be possible to let students use what they need for an average amount per head, I would hesitate to change "my" system. We have all come across the student who will bag all the expensive glass if given a chance, and it can create ill feelings if other students notice. If all glass and other materials are given a value from the start then perhaps students could pay extra if they go over "budget". What, however, horrified me is the phrase "a group of 20-25 total beginners". This in part answers Howards implied consternation as to the length of time taken over a first project. With such a large class you obviously cannot cover the techniques quickly. Knowing how difficult I find it to try and get 12 absolute beginners that I have never met before to feel that they are all getting individual attention - particularly at first when I like to stand beside each student in turn to start them off cutting - I take off my "metaphorical" hat to you. Regards ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 08:52:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 07:53:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Shakeel Abedi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: SGN #40 Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:50:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul29.65049.0> References: <<1998Jul30.31530.0>> Precedence: bulk Shakeel Abedi wrote: > > Hi All > > Today had a pleasant surprise in the mail. > > Had asked a question at the SGN and received a book, "Windows of North > America" from Mr Randy Wardell. > > Guys, I was wanting to put some (not many) links on my page, like's Mike's > and IGGA and Elisabeth. Do I have to get their permission to do so? Or is a > link public domain? > > Thanks > > http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Atrium/2543/ > Shakeel Abedi > 104, Jalan Mersing > 86000 Kluang > Johor > Malaysia > Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 > shakeel@tm.net.my > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass it's totally public, you can put any link you want. but if it's permission you want, you got mine... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 09:18:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 07:37:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: az.stratus.com!charlie From: Charles Spitzer To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: welding rod hinges Date: Wed, 29 Jul 98 07:22:57 -0700 Message-ID: References: <<1998Jul28.153210.0>> Organization: Customer Assistance Center, Stratus Computer, Inc. Precedence: bulk i meant to say that lee apparently wanted to send this to the group, rather than privately: lee boe wrote: > Hi Charlie, > > Yes, I did not explain it very well. You still use the larger outer > tube, and the welding rod forms the hinge part that is inserted in the > larger tube. Because you bend the smaller, the little tubes tend to > crack at the bend, if your not careful. Also the welding rod is > stiffer, and harder material, it makes good reinforcement in various > projects, the bottom of lamps etc. I get the larger tubes several dozen > at a time wholesale so it is not very expensive, and I'm sure there are > other suppliers of that dimension brass tubing. At my welding supply > shop, 3 pound packs of the rod are about $10.00. Just looked at the > package, there are still about 50 3 ft rods in the pack, so it is going > to last a long time. Use 'white-out' at the bend in the rod, to keep > the solder from running into the tube, and when first attaching the > large tube, use round toothpicks in each end to keep the solder out. > > The Tube/rod hinge is still the best way I have found for attaching lids > to boxes, if any one else has a better method I'd appreciate knowing > about it. The little regular hinges just don't work too well in this > application. > > Lee Boe > Rain-Boe's Creations > > > Charles Spitzer wrote: > > You wrote: > > Another tip if you do boxes is use 1/16 brass welding rod (it comes 3 > feet long) get a package from your local welding supply. 3 pounds will > last along time. This is for the inside hinges, instead of the small > tube. Doesn't break so easy. > > is this what goes into the tube? and do you still have to buy the tube in > glass shops? or does this take the place of the tube, and if so, how do you > make a hinge with just a rod? > > regards, > charlie --- Charles Spitzer charlie@az.stratus.com Phoenix, AZ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 09:24:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 08:06:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aries17.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Links Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:07:36 -0400 Message-ID: <199807291507.LAA04012@aries17.uwaterloo.ca> Precedence: bulk Shakeel asks: | Guys, I was wanting to put some (not many) links on my page, like's Mike's | and IGGA and Elisabeth. Do I have to get their permission to do so? Or is a | link public domain? A URL is not private property the same way that your email address or your URL is not private property. You can list a page in yours without contacting the author. Many people find it adecuate to contact the original owner of the URL --some in a gesture of gallantry while others in expectation of a link in return. This flexibility and easyness to link is what makes the Web so powerful. In my particular case, I don't mind people linking to my pages --in fact, they exist to be perused-- and find it unnecessary for somebody to ask me for my permission. Obviously, this is different than copying a bunch of links from one page and putting them into yours. We are talking here of the fact of you finding a page you want to include in your collection --not copying somebody else's collection. My two C$0.02 -- Daniel M. German "Cyberspace. A consensual hallucination experienced daily by billions William Gibson -> of legitimate operators in every nation" http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 11:12:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:35:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pacifier.com!ptap From: Pamela Burns-Tappan To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re:SGN Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:32:10 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul29.33210.0> Organization: Moswood Mountain Limited Precedence: bulk Hi all Hi Shakeel, When I have inserted text links into my page, I do not ask permission. If I want to use a logo, (example: Albert Lewis or say the Spectrum Glass Logo) I asked permission before saving the logo image to my hard drive. Some web sites will have a place on their site that will give you permission and which logo they want you to use (example: Dragonfly software in their "Other Glass Sites" section is a permission, banner etc.) If this is the case, you don't have to directly ask them. http://www.dfly.com/ If I don't see a logo permission at the web site then I will e-mail them directly and ask if I may use their logo, which one do they want me to use, the size, the placement of their logo (top of page, middle, whatever) and if my page is appropriate in their opinion, for use of their logo. Not many people ask for permission I don't think on the internet regarding Logo Use. Most people/businesses love for you to show their logos with a link, but keep in mind that the logo for a business or individual represents them and unless you see a permission always be respectful and ask first. I don't care if the logo is copyrighted or not, I always ask. P.S. I visited you page Shakeel, and I think you are doing a great job! See you Pam Pamela Burns-Tappan Moswood Mountain Limited President http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/index.html Stained Glass Artists Manager http://www.pacifier.com/~ptap/artists.html ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 12:47:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:10:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: banet.net!gmanning From: Goldpaws To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Sort of Non Glass Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:53:49 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul29.95349.0> Precedence: bulk Hope no one minds me posting this. I am having glass withdrawal. Instead of breaking glass last Thursday night, I broke my leg. Now I am going crazy because I can't get down to my workshop. My Rosebush lamp awaits me. I am looking at all my catalogs and ready to order things that look good. I really don't need anything else but--- Anyone have this kind of problem before? If so what type of glass work did you do to keep your sanity?? Thanks for listening Goldpaws is now known as Boo-Boo Paws Would anyone like to E-Mail me glass that needs to be foiled? LOL ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 13:16:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:25:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re:SGN Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:32:03 +0000 Message-ID: <199807292118.RAA27904@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > respectful and ask first. I don't care if the logo is copyrighted or > not, I always ask. That's the polite thing to do, of course. As to whether an image is copyrighted, it is. Always. It doesn't need the copyright text or symbol. It's automatically protected under the law the moment it's created. Just so ya know. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 13:45:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:24:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: anyone going to GV? Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:21:42 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul29.122142.0> References: <<1998Jul29.101040.0>> Precedence: bulk Of course, we could just (again) drape bungi cords over various parts of our anatomy and see if we find each other. john and I'll be there both days. Dorothy K Yegnim@aol.com wrote: > Hi Guys, > > I will be going to GV at W-C also. I will be there on Sunday only and look > forward to meeting other bungies there. Who was the person who said they > would make a bungi id to be worn to identify us to each other? Know it was > for a different show, but do you have any left? If not, what did you make and > how did you make it? Info would be much appreciated! > > Lenore > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 14:47:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:25:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: Dinosaur Bob To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Speaking of G/V Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:14:15 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul29.131415.0> Organization: Cox's Mower Service Precedence: bulk Hello Hilary - Long time no hear - Is there going to be an IGGA table this year? It's about that time that requests for volunteers start showing up -- Adults are obsolete children Theodore Geisel ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 15:05:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:25:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: cornell.edu!bjs10 From: Barbara To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: morton safety break Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:21:33 -0400 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980729172133.006b97c4@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> Precedence: bulk Elisabeth, I have never seen the Morton Safety Break System, but from your letter I think I get the concept..... I get the button part and I am assuming that the string is just so that you can hang it around your neck so as not to lose it...... but I am not sure about the packing polystyrene. I would like to try your version of the "gizmo" just out of curiosity.... What do you do with the packing polystyrene? Do you mind explaining in more detail? Barbara....... >Hi all, > >Back to tools again. >When I first saw the "Morton Safety Break" system here in UK..... and >the almost 20 dollars price tag on it, I laughed out loud. >A small lump of plastic, a button and a piece of string.... >The button almost identical to a children's game called >"tiddly-winks" > >For gratis for free, for nothing, one can use an ordinary >large cardigan button (flat one side, slightly convex the other), a >piece of packing polystyrene (the type that surrounds electrical >equipment, printers, and such like...), cut to size. The piece of >string found anywhere..... surely.. >For my students on very budgets, yet who love "gizmos", I >demonstrate my GRATIS polystyrene and button technique with great >effect. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 15:14:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:03:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!MISGLAS From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Morton video Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:58:11 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul29.215811.0> Precedence: bulk I have watched the Morton video and still don't know how to use the darn thing!!! Does anyone else have a problem understanding their directions???? Maybe its a left brain thing. Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks. Kathi ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 15:46:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:23:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, gmanning@banet.net Subject: Sort of Non Glass Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:21:53, -0500 Message-ID: <199807292221.SAA10364@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>I am having glass withdrawal. Instead of breaking glass last Thursday night, I broke my leg. Now I am going crazy because I can't get down to my workshop. My Rosebush lamp awaits me.<< Get out or get a Morton work surface and you can do glass work anywhere you are comfortable. At the kitchen table or on a coffee table is fine and you can quickly fold up shop. The work surface can be moved rather easily. While I am at it. I have visited many glass studios. In all of them I see little jigs and other home made as well as purchased items that make life in the glass world a little easier. My friend John has been earning a living at this craft for fifty plus years and has a few of these. When quarried, he said something to the effect that so and so showed him how to make the item when he was starting out. I feel that things like the Morton workshop provide to the less experienced the benefit of many many years of experience. Most anyone should be able to come up with copies of the many tools offered to the public. This is especially true after having seen the offered item. Just because something is made and sold to the public and can be copied is NOT a proof that it is a rip off. It just can be ripped off. I do not consider the copying of a manufactured product to be wrong providing copywrite is not violated. I just do not give a great deal of credit to the copier. Having said the above I will also say that I think it is a good idea not to rush out and buy the newest thing on the market. It seems to me that most new items offered do not prove worthwhile over the tried and true products. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *Thanks, America.* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 16:18:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:44:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hotmail.com!marycooper From: "Mary Cooper" To: glass@bungi.com, gmanning@banet.net Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Non Glass: Boo-Boo Paws Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:56:21 PDT Message-ID: <1998Jul29.205621.0> Precedence: bulk You poor thing! Having never broken a limb, (knock on wood) I dont know what I would do. Maybe once you get used to crutches you can lean on them while cutting/soldering/grinding. This might be dangerous, but hey, glass withdrawal is serious. What happened? Mary >From: Goldpaws >To: glass@bungi.com >Subject: Sort of Non Glass >Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:53:49 -0400 > >Hope no one minds me posting this. >I am having glass withdrawal. >Instead of breaking glass last Thursday night, I broke my leg. >Now I am going crazy because I can't get down to my workshop. >My Rosebush lamp awaits me. >I am looking at all my catalogs and ready to order things that look >good. >I really don't need anything else but--- >Anyone have this kind of problem before? >If so what type of glass work did you do to keep your sanity?? > >Thanks for listening >Goldpaws is now known as Boo-Boo Paws >Would anyone like to E-Mail me glass that needs to be foiled? LOL > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 16:32:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:59:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Goldpaws Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Sort of Non Glass Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:45:00 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul29.14450.0> References: <<1998Jul29.95349.0>> Precedence: bulk Goldpaws wrote: > > Hope no one minds me posting this. > I am having glass withdrawal. > Instead of breaking glass last Thursday night, I broke my leg. > Now I am going crazy because I can't get down to my workshop. > My Rosebush lamp awaits me. > I am looking at all my catalogs and ready to order things that look > good. > I really don't need anything else but--- > Anyone have this kind of problem before? > If so what type of glass work did you do to keep your sanity?? > > Thanks for listening > Goldpaws is now known as Boo-Boo Paws > Would anyone like to E-Mail me glass that needs to be foiled? LOL > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ahh breaking your leg is a nice change a pace, eh? :) you could always design some new projects. or surf online, look for stained glass info. or make your own page. i personally hav'nt dont anything glass related for months... ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 16:45:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:31:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, MISGLAS@aol.com Subject: Re: Morton video Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:30:23, -0500 Message-ID: <199807292330.TAA16968@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>I have watched the Morton video and still don't know how to use the darn thing!!! Does anyone else have a problem understanding their directions???? Maybe its a left brain thing. Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks. Kathi<< I have the video and have read the printed directions and fully agree that Morton could have done a far better job. When using the directions, try to seperate out those that apply to the small and large work surface. Most work surfaces can be purchased with the detent dots already marked and so that helps. If you use a thick cutter like tha Toyo you will find the work shop already set up for it. If you use a thin cutter like the simple Fletcher then you will need the adjustment instructions. Even trying to explain this is a trial. Just hang in there and don't let them confuse you with more than you need to know. On another news group this was a subject of much discussion. I think Morton said they would look into simpler directions. Don't hold your breath. bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *Thanks, America.* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 16:56:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:39:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: SGN #40 Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:35:40 +0000 Message-ID: <199807292339.AAA12587@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hi Shakeel et al, No you don't need my "permission" to put my link on your page! ....In any case, I'll give to you anyhow... ;-> Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Shakeel wrote: > > Guys, I was wanting to put some (not many) links on my page, like's Mike's > and IGGA and Elisabeth. Do I have to get their permission to do so? Or is a > link public domain? > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 17:09:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:12:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LByrne21 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Volunteers Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:10:57 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul29.231057.0> Precedence: bulk Volunteers are needed for the IGGA table at Glass Visions, August 22 and 23. Would be happy to hear from any of you delightful folks, who are willing to spend some of your time, while at Glass Visions, attending the IGGA table. If this sounds appealing, e-mail me direct, as to what times you could make yourself available, and I will work out a schedule to fit. Hilary Bobker did a fantastic job last year, but is unable to give her full attention to this endeavor at this time. (However, she assures me there will be some volunteer time that she will be able to give, so we will be seeing her...right Hilary?) In the meantime, while trying to walk in her footsteps, all help will be greatly appreciated....looking forward to your e-mail. (Perhaps we may be able to get a "Bungi" get-together.....together.) Lavergne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 17:16:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:39:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Cost of teaching materials Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:35:40 +0000 Message-ID: <199807292339.AAA12584@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk EliZabeth in Bournmouth, Howard... et al Thank you for helpful suggestions. In this particular instance, the college has had to accept reduced local government funding yet again. My classes are very popular and there is usually a waiting list . But in order to save money, they have gradually forced the numbers up in each class. I arrange the class in a loose circle with me in the middle One way I have countered the having to have "eyes in the back of my head", is to sneak in a couple of "older and trusted" students as look-outs. But being in the middle, I can circle around the students constantly. (gets kind of dizzy...). That way, I find I am constantly in touch with what they are doing individually. In a local government funded college, the students feel it doesn't matter if they "miss" the odd lesson, which means that it takes them longer to complete a project (After all, they pay the College for the tuition fee - not ME). During the wintermonths there is always also someone in the family with a cold, chickenpox or flu'. I can only tell them off jokingly and remind them that they won't be able to finish their projects on time.I think if the tuition had been in my studio, they might take greater care not to miss lessons. Each class is once a week (for 2 hours), spread over 16 weeks; with holidays and half-terms in between. Allowing for late arrivals, un-packing their gear, packing it all up again and the subsequent cleaning-up process, they ALL have to help with (within the 2 hours), I am surprised that they manage so well - and more than that, also enjoy it. That, I hope, will (at least in part) also have answered Howard's point.... There are no lockable facilities or any kind of storage space available at this college, so I have to "hump" everything there and back, this includes several "spare" sets of tools. Each student work their way through approx 2-3 sq.ft of practice glass for the first 2 classes, until they get the hang of where to scrounge for bits of their own to bring. All that glass has to be brought - AND removed by myself to & from the college. So - as you might know for yourself, there is a lot of logistics involved. Neither is there a "budget for the core of materials".... At another Art Centre where I teach I have to hump everything 2 flights up from a back-entrance loading bay (with NO trolleys made available). Your costings are very close to my own. The College insist that the students are informed in advance, how much their outlay for materials is likely to cost them (excluding tools). Because the College has had to increase their course fee to the students (it's already now close to UK Sterl. 100 per student), they now feel that I should reduce the "expected outlay for materials"; their figure is about UK Sterling 8. I wanted to make sure I had "my sums right", before I penned a "suitable" reply....... I dare say, you can guess what THAT will be. ;-> My long-term plan is to have a suitable location myself specifically for teaching. I don't have a retail shop with racks of pre-prized sheets of a selection of "standard sizes"that I can pull out ready for selling on in class. However, we all adopt and adapt systems that work best for us. Many thanks for your in-put EliSabeth 'n Toby in UK EliZabeth in Bournemout wrote: > I suggest that they will usually need to > spend about 10 UK pounds (about US dollars 16) on basic materials for their > first piece (they all do the same design in clear glass to start) including > practice glass, solder, lead, tallow, enough cement, whiting, blacking etc. > Then about 7 to 15 pounds on coloured glass (depending on how many different > colours they choose to use) and lead which would normally be enough for the > two beginners projects that I take students through designing and making > after their first piece. snip > Even in a college setting where there is storage space and a budget for a > core of materials snip > What, however, horrified me is the phrase "a group of 20-25 total > beginners". This in part answers Howards implied consternation as to the > length of time taken over a first project. With such a large class you > obviously cannot cover the techniques quickly. > Knowing how difficult I find it to try and get 12 absolute beginners that I > have never met before to feel that they are all getting individual attention > - particularly at first when I like to stand beside each student in turn to > start them off cutting - I take off my "metaphorical" hat to you. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 17:36:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:04:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Astarzia From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Catalogs, etc. Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:01:34 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul30.0134.0> Precedence: bulk Hello again! I am looking for catalogs (paper or on line) to look at to get an idea of what tools, pattern books, etc are out there. If you have a good catalog could you please post the phone number so that I could order one for myself....or post the email address. Btw, I live in the states. Thanks!! *Astarzia* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 17:46:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:34:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: webtv.net!Beadnik2 From: Beadnik2@webtv.net (Joan) To: MISGLAS@aol.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Morton video Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:33:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1998Jul29.16335.0> Precedence: bulk Kathi wrote: >I have watched the Morton video and still don't >know how to use the darn thing!!! Does anyone >else have a problem understanding their >directions???? Maybe its a left brain thing. Any >tips would be appreciated. Thanks. Kathi, You are definitely not alone! I have the Morton cutting surface and the tiny turntable, which I use daily and love. Last year at a Glass Convention I saw the safety break demoe'd... I even tried it myself, and it worked. Now, for the life of me, I can't get it to do what it's supposed to do, and the directions are of no help. Same problem with their little circle cutter... unfortunatelly, they are just collecting dust! If anyone wants to try an on-line tutorial, I'm all ears (eyes???) Joan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 17:57:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:22:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Running pliers Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:21:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul29.162128.0> Precedence: bulk And Charles shows us what a class act he is once again! Thanks for your honesty - it's refreshing and we need lots more of it on this planet. Now back to running pliers - a gadget I discovered about a year ago (behind my Luddite husband's back!) and fell in love with because I do have some trouble breaking some kinds of glass (no strength in my hands). When I decided to do the glass mosaic for my show, they = really came in handy. Since I had to cut thousands of 3/8 inch squares of glass in at least three dozen colors (even though I used opalescent), I obviously needed an efficient way to get that accomplished. I = don't care for those awkward tile cutters, = so tried the running pliers. I made = a dozen strip cuts 3/8 inches apart, then snap-snap-snap with the runners. Then I = took each strip, cut along the length every 3/8 and snap-snap-snap- with the runners again. Fast, easy, worked like a charm and I had boxes of squares in a few hours! Only problem is it wears out the pads fast, wonder if I can buy replacements for those. If this a neat new trick or does everyone but me know about it already?! Or is there an even better and faster way - I really liked the mosaic and intend to do more of them. Thanks! Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 18:18:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:53:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Astarzia@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Catalogs, etc. Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:51:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul29.16519.0> References: <<1998Jul30.0134.0>> Precedence: bulk Astarzia@aol.com wrote: > > Hello again! > > I am looking for catalogs (paper or on line) to look at to get > an idea of what tools, pattern books, etc are out there. > > If you have a good catalog could you please post the phone > number so that I could order one for myself....or post the > email address. > > Btw, I live in the states. > > Thanks!! > *Astarzia* > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass the easiest thing i can tell you, is to go to my links page, i tried to get as many catalogs up there as i could. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 18:48:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:32:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Running pliers Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:36:50 +0000 Message-ID: <199807300323.XAA17878@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > If this a neat new trick or does everyone but > me know about it already?! Or is there an I bit my tongue yesterday to keep from pointing out that making thousands of itty bitty squares or rectangles is No Big Thang. And you don't need any plastic newish thang to do it, either. A ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 18:59:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:40:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "Michael J. Greer" , Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Re: Running pliers/ tools Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:40:54 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul29.114054.0> Precedence: bulk Running pliers are FINE for straight lines. I use glass snappers and get 100's of hours before they fail( break or loose one of the ridges). These do not have replacement "jaws" One must remember not to try to "crush" the score, as a little pressure works fine. I also frown at the assortment of "Tools one MUST have"....my fids are 3/8" dowels, I have my own design (and it REALLY works) jig for holding and leveling panel lamps for the final soldering, (thought about patenting and producing it commercially)...my own designed stripping table (yeah, that works real well, too), a cute simple tool for pushing out the sides of panel lamps prior to soldering, and a few other items made from necessity. HOWEVER, an efficient person knows when to buy and when to "putter". I used to get a lot of the Morton stuff to experiment with. Some work fine, others?????????????? When my students purchase the grid and glass shop, it comes to them with my WARNING...it will do a lot of stuff, READ the manual (pages) and then mess around with it. Because I/we primarily lamp related cutting, the "road map" is not directed at making trapezoids. I do not promote sun catchers and like stuff, so usually they are on their own after they have "mastered" panel lamps to play with it for other things. enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 19:13:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:25:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Cost of teaching materials Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:30:54 +0000 Message-ID: <199807300317.XAA17425@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > there is usually a waiting list . But in order to save money, they > have gradually forced the numbers up in each class. Never mind. Even the Big Universities do that. Julie Sloan's class at Columbia University is a case in point. Required minimum number of students is hiked every year until now at 12 students it's cancelled, the requirement being 15. It's one of the most popular because it includes hard business approaches, as well as theoretical conservation techniques, but ... never mind that. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 19:20:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:26:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: morton safety break Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:30:54 +0000 Message-ID: <199807300317.XAA17428@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Albert....Are you saying that pros. do not us the Morton System????? > Walter No, if you want to use it, you can. It's just not necessary. Most professionals don't, haven't, and won't. It's not that it's not a good thing. It *is good for those who haven't been taught to cut correctly and efficiently. It's a shortcut, but one that can be accomplished without the expense. Unfortunately, people look for quick fixes and easy routes to expertise. Art is hard work, requires the ol' practice, practice, practice and like many other quick solutions, the Morton System's success is based on people's desire to achieve easy "expertise." A > > Yes, there was an article about a major installation here in the > > States recently, the author of the article was (apparently) so > > indebted to one of the advertisers, that it was mentioned that the > > studio, called "the fabricator" and never named in fact, used the > > Morton System to produce the enormous windows for the cathedral in > > question. > > > > When the craftspeople in the studio read that, they looked at each > > other and asked, "Do we even *own one of those?" They didn't. > > > > But the idea that one needs these toys is so pervasive these days > > that somehow authors even of articles in the so-called "trade press" > > assume that they're used by professional craftspeople. > > > > It's to laugh. > > > > Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 19:37:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:53:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hotmail.com!sglass1 From: "jean pay" To: glass@bungi.com, shad@mail2.nai.net Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: anyone going to GV? Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:52:36 PDT Message-ID: <1998Jul30.15236.0> Precedence: bulk I'll be there not sure what day jean >From owner-glass@daver.bungi.com Wed Jul 29 13:53:08 1998 >Received: by daver.bungi.com > via smail with stdio > id > for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:24:21 -0700 (PDT) > (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) >X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad >From: Family Account >To: glass@bungi.com >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Subject: Re: anyone going to GV? >Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:21:42 -0400 >Message-ID: <1998Jul29.122142.0> >References: <<1998Jul29.101040.0>> >Precedence: bulk > >Of course, we could just (again) drape bungi cords over various parts of our >anatomy and see if we find each other. john and I'll be there both days. > >Dorothy K > >Yegnim@aol.com wrote: > >> Hi Guys, >> >> I will be going to GV at W-C also. I will be there on Sunday only and look >> forward to meeting other bungies there. Who was the person who said they >> would make a bungi id to be worn to identify us to each other? Know it was >> for a different show, but do you have any left? If not, what did you make and >> how did you make it? Info would be much appreciated! >> >> Lenore >> ---- >> For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >> To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >> Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 19:49:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:31:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: webtv.net!Beadnik2 From: Beadnik2@webtv.net (Joan) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: More Tools...Mosaic Cutters Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1998Jul29.18309.0> Precedence: bulk This is another tool I use daily, because I frequently cut very small pieces off skinny strips of glass. I recently noticed that one of the wheels has started to "wiggle" very badly, making the tool difficult to use. There does not seem a slot for any type of screw driver. Does anyone know what I can use (if anything) to tighten this up again? Thanks! Joan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 20:06:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:32:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "Toby" , "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: Cost of teaching materials Date: Wed, 29 Jul 98 22:24:24 -0400 Message-ID: <199807300227.WAA09230@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk Hi Elizabeth, Maybe you would make as much money teaching individually at home? I make $20 for a 2-hour class and the student has my individual attention; a lot of that time I get to work on my own projects (when they have are grinding, foiling, etc.) In those cases I'm just there to help when they get "stuck." Of course the most I can make is $40/day as I would not take more than 2 a day. It doesn't pay the mortgage, but sure helps with expenses and does give me "forced time" on my own projects. Plus input from creative minds (you'd be surprised how much my students teach me!), has made some lasting friendships, and my lifestyle has become sooo relaxed (can you put a dollar value on that?) The students either carry their work home to foil, if they want, or leave it here; so the only "dragging" I have to do is from the storage room to the work room. Sounds like you're doing a lot of heavy work with not-so-wonderful pay. Something for you to consider? Suzanne Suzanne >EliZabeth in Bournmouth, Howard... et al > >Thank you for helpful suggestions. >In this particular instance, the college has had to accept reduced >local government funding yet again. My classes are very popular and >there is usually a waiting list . But in order to save money, they >have gradually forced the numbers up in each class. >I arrange the class in a loose circle with me in the middle > >One way I have countered the having to have "eyes in the back of my >head", is to sneak in a couple of "older and trusted" students as >look-outs. But being in the middle, I can circle around the students >constantly. (gets kind of dizzy...). That way, I find I am constantly >in touch with what they are doing individually. > > In a local government funded college, the students feel it doesn't >matter if they "miss" the odd lesson, which means that it takes them >longer to complete a project (After all, they pay the College for >the tuition fee - not ME). During the wintermonths there is always >also someone in the family with a cold, chickenpox or flu'. I can >only tell them off jokingly and remind them that they won't be able >to finish their projects on time.I think if the tuition had been in >my studio, they might take greater care not to miss lessons. Each >class is once a week (for 2 hours), spread over 16 weeks; with >holidays and half-terms in between. Allowing for late arrivals, >un-packing their gear, packing it all up again and the subsequent >cleaning-up process, they ALL have to help with (within the 2 hours), > I am surprised that they manage so well - and more than that, also >enjoy it. That, I hope, will (at least in part) also have answered >Howard's point.... > > >There are no lockable facilities or any kind of storage space >available at this college, so I have to "hump" everything there and >back, this includes several "spare" sets of tools. Each student work >their way through approx 2-3 sq.ft of practice glass for the first 2 >classes, until they get the hang of where to scrounge for bits of >their own to bring. All that glass has to be brought - AND removed by >myself to & from the college. So - as you might know for yourself, >there is a lot of logistics involved. >Neither is there a "budget for the core of materials".... > >At another Art Centre where I teach I have to hump everything 2 >flights up from a back-entrance loading bay (with NO trolleys made >available). > >Your costings are very close to my own. The College insist that the >students are informed in advance, how much their outlay for materials >is likely to cost them (excluding tools). Because the College has had >to increase their course fee to the students (it's already now close >to UK Sterl. 100 per student), they now feel that I should reduce the >"expected outlay for materials"; their figure is about UK Sterling 8. >I wanted to make sure I had "my sums right", before I penned a >"suitable" reply....... >I dare say, you can guess what THAT will be. ;-> >My long-term plan is to have a suitable location myself specifically >for teaching. I don't have a retail shop with racks of pre-prized >sheets of a selection of "standard sizes"that I can pull out ready >for selling on in class. >However, we all adopt and adapt systems that work best for us. >Many thanks for your in-put >EliSabeth 'n Toby in UK > > >EliZabeth in Bournemout wrote: >> I suggest that they will usually need to >> spend about 10 UK pounds (about US dollars 16) on basic materials for their >> first piece (they all do the same design in clear glass to start) including >> practice glass, solder, lead, tallow, enough cement, whiting, blacking etc. >> Then about 7 to 15 pounds on coloured glass (depending on how many different >> colours they choose to use) and lead which would normally be enough for the >> two beginners projects that I take students through designing and making >> after their first piece. >snip >> Even in a college setting where there is storage space and a budget for a >> core of materials >snip >> What, however, horrified me is the phrase "a group of 20-25 total >> beginners". This in part answers Howards implied consternation as to the >> length of time taken over a first project. With such a large class you >> obviously cannot cover the techniques quickly. >> Knowing how difficult I find it to try and get 12 absolute beginners that I >> have never met before to feel that they are all getting individual attention >> - particularly at first when I like to stand beside each student in turn to >> start them off cutting - I take off my "metaphorical" hat to you. > >---- >As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" >North Lights Stained Glass - homepage >http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm >---- >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 20:23:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:32:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: voicenet.com!hilary From: "Hilary A. Bobker" To: LByrne21@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Volunteers Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:34:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul29.18343.0> References: <<1998Jul29.231057.0>> Organization: HABit Fashion Services Precedence: bulk > Volunteers are needed for the IGGA table at Glass Visions, August 22 and 23. Lavergne, Yep, I can give you a couple of hours on Saturday morning. Just let me know when. I was wondering if any and all Bungites could meet for lunch on Saturday? Anybody up for that? Hilary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 20:26:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:44:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: webtv.net!Beadnik2 From: Beadnik2@webtv.net (Joan) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Running pliers/ tools Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:40:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1998Jul29.184057.0> Precedence: bulk >I use glass snappers and get 100's of hours >before they fail( break or loose one of the >ridges). OK... I'm going to stick my neck out here and risk sounding REALLY dumb!!! What are glass snappers, and how are they different from running pliers??? Joan (Duh!!!) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 21:23:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:01:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Sort of Non Glass Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:00:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul29.2003.0> Precedence: bulk Goldpaws! Now's the time to do all your original = designs for the next year's projects! When you can get back to your work- shop, you'll have tons of exciting new projects to work on. Designing is the best part of the process anyway. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 21:55:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:16:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: alewis@vgernet.net, glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: morton safety break Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:13:35, -0500 Message-ID: <199807300413.AAA14922@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>> Albert....Are you saying that pros. do not us the Morton System??? ?? > Walter No, if you want to use it, you can. It's just not necessary. Most professionals don't, haven't, and won't. It's not that it's not a good thing. It *is good for those who haven't been taught to cut correctly and efficiently. It's a shortcut, but one that can be accomplished without the expense. Unfortunately, people look for quick fixes and easy routes to expertise. Art is hard work, requires the ol' practice, practice, practice and like many other quick solutions, the Morton System's success is based on people's desire to achieve easy "expertise."<< Hey Albert, are we talking about the same thing. The Morton System is for straight cuts only. There is nothing in the work shop that is intended to cut curves as every professional I know does on a daily basis. Somehow I get the impression that you are not familiar with this tool. Do you do do stained glass cutting on a regular basis? How do you cut , say, a 12" straight line? How is it a shortcut? I look at it as a cutting bar that has very clever methods of positioning the glass for accurate cuts. I feel that I can cut glass with the best of them. All the professionals that I know use a cutting bar of some type for longer straight cuts. To try to push or pull a Classic Fletcher cutter and cut a straight line where the deviation can not be conviently measured is not something professionals loose sleep over. We want quick and accurate cuts that lead to professional work. Morton has a way to do this. I could spend a lot of time explaining about how I made my home made cutting bar for my main light table but some *professional* is likely to come along and say that the light table is a non professional thing. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *Thanks, America.* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 22:30:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:46:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: Beadnik2@webtv.net, glass@bungi.com Subject: More Tools...Mosaic Cutters Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:43:46, -0500 Message-ID: <199807300443.AAA16252@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>This is another tool I use daily, because I frequently cut very small pieces off skinny strips of glass. I recently noticed that one of the wheels has started to "wiggle" very badly, making the tool difficult to use. There does not seem a slot for any type of screw driver. Does anyone know what I can use (if anything) to tighten this up again? Thanks! Joan<< I think you need a new cutter.The mosaic cutter I know of has two cutting wheels that are squeezed together to make the break. The wheels may be rotated to gain a sharp cutting surface. They are otherwise non adjustable and are intended to be disposable when worn out. They are best used on ceramic tile where a glass cutter will be quickly worn out. For glass I suggest using a glass cutter to make a tiny scribe and then using a breaker to pull/pry the desired piece off. Using a breaker it is reasonable to scribe and pull/pry off 1/8" strips of some length from nominal 1/8" art glass. Scribing and breaking this strip at 3/32" is reasonable with this method. You will likely find that this produces a cut piece that is more regular than one produced with a mosaic cutter. You can make a simple jig from two pieces of wood set at right angles. Place the strip to be cut along one edge and butt into the other piece of wood. Placing the cutter (wide type) along the second piece of wood will set you up to scribe at 3/32". Sounds like I am writing Morton instructions. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *Thanks, America.* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 22:44:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:50:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Running pliers Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:41:29 -0700 Message-ID: <199807300341.UAA21320@norm.island.net> Precedence: bulk Dani...me again. Sorry, I think I packed my brain in the van! I use mosaic cutters for making small squares such as you describe. Cut your thin strips, then use the mosaic cutters like scissors to cut the small squares. Cutter wheels seem to last a long time and can be rotated to a fresh spot when they get dull. Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 22:56:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:52:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail.island.net!seaspray From: seaspray@mail.island.net (Carol Swann) To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: Running pliers Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:38:51 -0700 Message-ID: <199807300338.UAA20935@norm.island.net> Precedence: bulk Hi Dani Still haven't heard how your show went!!! Still up to your eyeballs catching up??? I'm off to set mine up tomorrow. Anyway, I've been unsuccessful at finding replacement pads for my running pliers. I'm almost at the point where I'm going to build up a whack of electricians tape to act as a cushion instead. Cheers Carol Swann Synergy Glass & Creative >And Charles shows us what a class act >he is once again! Thanks for your honesty - >it's refreshing and we need lots more of it >on this planet. > >Now back to running pliers - a gadget I >discovered about a year ago (behind my >Luddite husband's back!) and fell in love >with because I do have some trouble >breaking some kinds of glass (no strength >in my hands). When I decided to do >the glass mosaic for my show, they = > >really came in handy. Since I had to cut >thousands of 3/8 inch squares of glass in >at least three dozen colors (even though I >used opalescent), I obviously needed an >efficient way to get that accomplished. I = > >don't care for those awkward tile cutters, = > >so tried the running pliers. I made = > >a dozen strip cuts 3/8 inches apart, then >snap-snap-snap with the runners. Then I = > >took each strip, cut along the length every >3/8 and snap-snap-snap- with the runners >again. Fast, easy, worked like a charm >and I had boxes of squares in a few hours! >Only problem is it wears out the pads fast, >wonder if I can buy replacements for those. > >If this a neat new trick or does everyone but >me know about it already?! Or is there an >even better and faster way - I really liked >the mosaic and intend to do more of them. > >Thanks! > >Best regards, > >Dani Greer >Greer Gallery & Studios >http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 22:58:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:54:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Lizfw From: To: AArakel526@aol.com, erk9258@cs.tamu.edu (Elaine Renee Keown), Content-Type: multipart/mixed; Subject: Fwd: experiment Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:49:38 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul30.44938.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_901774179_boundary Content-ID: <0_901774179@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In a message dated 98-07-29 23:08:25 EDT, byhisgrc@integrityonline7.com writes: << Here is an experiment. I hope it will seem interesting enough to you to make you want to participate. Email messages fly to and fro, all over the world. Lots of jokes, cute sayings, etc. seem to take on a life of their own as they get forwarded to more and more email addresses. I've often thought that it is too bad we can't see where these well-traveled messages have been. I'll bet we'd be amazed at the list of addresses some have visited. There is a way to find out. Just add your first name, location, date and maybe a very short comment to the bottom of this message and send it out to your list of email friends. Eventually it may return to you. If it does, you'll be able to see all the places it has been since it first left your computer. (Highlight entire e-mail, go to edit, click copy, create new e- mail, put cursor in writing part of e-mail, go back to edit, click paste and TADA!! you can now add your name for those of you who do not know how to do it who have AOL Anna ) 1. Allen, Buckinghamshire, England, 29 Jun 1998 (originator of this message.) 2. LuJane, Palouse Washington (and Potlatch Idaho) 3. Lynne, Newark, California 30 June 1998 4. Judi, Lillington, NC - 7-1-98 5. Tammy Halcomb, Washington, The state (6-30-98) 6. Marie, Manteca, California 7.Carla,Kent , Washington,(state)6-30-98 8. Dedri White, Washington, 6-30-98 9. joni,Dayton, Ohio 6/2/98 10. Johnny Boy, Cleveland, Ohio 1998.07.02 11. Ciara, Suffern, New York 7-4-98 ( lol...... what's another e-mail experiment among friends ) >> 12. Carol, Reno, Nevada 7-4-98 { I think that this is cute, hope that it makes it around the world} =o) 13. Anne Oregon 7/4/98 Happy 4th of July 14. Docia, Tampa, FL 7-4-98 15. Theresa, Millbrae, CA 7-4-98 16. Verna, San Diego,CA. 7/4/98 17. Fran - Southern NJ 7/4/98 18. Cheryl - Highland, Illinois 7/5/98 19. Linda - St. Peters, Missouri 7/5/98 20. Steve- Las Vegas, NV 7/7/98 21. Robyn-Hazel Park, MI 7/8/98--- HII 22. Anna, Madison Heights, MI 7/8/98 What the heck, this could be interesting 23. CornBeef99 Oak Park, MI July 9, 1998 24.Donna -Oak Park, MI 7/10/98 This could be fun 25.Rasp22 ie.Peggy Sue, Orange park, Fl 7/9/98 God bless! 26. ImHapy2Day (Ruth),Middleburg.Florida 7/10/98 27. October 49 (Sue)Waterford, New York 7/12/98 28. Karmag10 (Karen)Pittsfield, MA 7/13/98 29. HLHJR59(Henry)Schuylerville Ny 7-23-98 30. Leona-Schuylerville, NY 7/28/98 31. Susan, Callaway, Va. 7-29-98 32. The Asbell's, Hayes, VA 7-29-98 33. Lisa, Santa Maria, CA 7-29-98 - Jer 29:11 34.Liz, Coeur d'Alene, Idaho 7-30-98 --part0_901774179_boundary Content-ID: <0_901774179@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from relay24.mx.aol.com (relay24.mail.aol.com [172.31.106.70]) by air16.mail.aol.com (v46.20) with SMTP; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 23:08:23 -0400 Received: from joshua.integrityonline.com (mail.integrityonline7.com [208.230.250.6]) by relay24.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with SMTP id XAA13612; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 23:08:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from integrityonline7.com [208.230.250.24] by joshua.integrityonline.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A3B85D000FE; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:08:40 -0700 Message-ID: <35BFE4AC.8E1BBBD2@integrityonline7.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:12:44 -0700 From: Lisa X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) To: skittles01@integrityonline7.com Subject: experiment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Here is an experiment. I hope it will seem interesting enough to you to make you want to participate. Email messages fly to and fro, all over the world. Lots of jokes, cute sayings, etc. seem to take on a life of their own as they get forwarded to more and more email addresses. I've often thought that it is too bad we can't see where these well-traveled messages have been. I'll bet we'd be amazed at the list of addresses some have visited. There is a way to find out. Just add your first name, location, date and maybe a very short comment to the bottom of this message and send it out to your list of email friends. Eventually it may return to you. If it does, you'll be able to see all the places it has been since it first left your computer. (Highlight entire e-mail, go to edit, click copy, create new e- mail, put cursor in writing part of e-mail, go back to edit, click paste and TADA!! you can now add your name for those of you who do not know how to do it who have AOL Anna ) 1. Allen, Buckinghamshire, England, 29 Jun 1998 (originator of this message.) 2. LuJane, Palouse Washington (and Potlatch Idaho) 3. Lynne, Newark, California 30 June 1998 4. Judi, Lillington, NC - 7-1-98 5. Tammy Halcomb, Washington, The state (6-30-98) 6. Marie, Manteca, California 7.Carla,Kent , Washington,(state)6-30-98 8. Dedri White, Washington, 6-30-98 9. joni,Dayton, Ohio 6/2/98 10. Johnny Boy, Cleveland, Ohio 1998.07.02 11. Ciara, Suffern, New York 7-4-98 ( lol...... what's another e-mail experiment among friends ) >> 12. Carol, Reno, Nevada 7-4-98 { I think that this is cute, hope that it makes it around the world} =o) 13. Anne Oregon 7/4/98 Happy 4th of July 14. Docia, Tampa, FL 7-4-98 15. Theresa, Millbrae, CA 7-4-98 16. Verna, San Diego,CA. 7/4/98 17. Fran - Southern NJ 7/4/98 18. Cheryl - Highland, Illinois 7/5/98 19. Linda - St. Peters, Missouri 7/5/98 20. Steve- Las Vegas, NV 7/7/98 21. Robyn-Hazel Park, MI 7/8/98--- HII 22. Anna, Madison Heights, MI 7/8/98 What the heck, this could be interesting 23. CornBeef99 Oak Park, MI July 9, 1998 24.Donna -Oak Park, MI 7/10/98 This could be fun 25.Rasp22 ie.Peggy Sue, Orange park, Fl 7/9/98 God bless! 26. ImHapy2Day (Ruth),Middleburg.Florida 7/10/98 27. October 49 (Sue)Waterford, New York 7/12/98 28. Karmag10 (Karen)Pittsfield, MA 7/13/98 29. HLHJR59(Henry)Schuylerville Ny 7-23-98 30. Leona-Schuylerville, NY 7/28/98 31. Susan, Callaway, Va. 7-29-98 32. The Asbell's, Hayes, VA 7-29-98 33. Lisa, Santa Maria, CA 7-29-98 - Jer 29:11 -- Lisa in CA ICQ#10368382 "And Moses said, 'Don't be afraid. Just stand where you are and watch and you will see the wonderful way the Lord will rescue you today'". Exodus 14:13 --part0_901774179_boundary-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Wed Jul 29 23:10:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:29:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: MISGLAS@aol.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Morton video Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:20:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1998Jul29.152031.0> References: <<1998Jul29.215811.0>> Precedence: bulk Hi Kathy: You said you watched the Morton video and still can't understand the system. It helps if you have had geometry and understand all about angles. There is a set of instructions that comes with the portable glass shop that explains how to cut the various angles. It looks really complicated until you sit yourself down and begin to read and follow directions. Then...it actually works just like it shows on the video. There has been a lot of pros and cons about the Morton System and I guess I would have to go pro. It saves a lot of time when you are doing geometric and straight cuts. The safety break pays for itself through the saving of glass when making difficult cuts. I do realize it seems difficult at first but I spent three class sessions with my advanced students on using the Morton System and they were really impressed with the kind of cuts they could make. Guess I'm suggesting you try it out. It can be a really helpful aid. Peggy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 05:23:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 04:38:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; Subject: Fwd: More Tools...Mosaic Cutters Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:30:05 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul30.11305.0> Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_901798205_boundary Content-ID: <0_901798205@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Meant to send this forwarded post to the bungi line. Hope it goes thru o.k. Lenore --part0_901798205_boundary Content-ID: <0_901798205@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: Yegnim@aol.com Return-path: To: Beadnik2@webtv.net Subject: Re: More Tools...Mosaic Cutters Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:28:03 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Joan and Bungies, I believe they sell a replacement head for the mosaic cutters. Check by calling the manufacturer. The place you purchased them from should have the manufacturer's name and phone number or get you the information. Also, if you talk to the manufacturer, they may be able to answer you question about how to fix the wiggling tooth. Good Luck! Lenore --part0_901798205_boundary-- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 05:51:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 05:15:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: To: YWAH36A@prodigy.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: welding rod hinges Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:12:09 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul30.12129.0> Precedence: bulk Hi Bob and All! Have made quite a few boxes and am having a difficult time visualizing the taking off of the box lid for complete cleaning. Wouldn't the rods on the lid have to "Bent" in order to slip them out from the side tubes where they have been inserted? Please explain. Hope I am not the only one feeling in the dark about this. Ahhhhh Duh? Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 06:49:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 06:09:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LuvArtGlas From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: To buy OR not to buy Pattern sheers Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:04:06 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul30.1346.0> Precedence: bulk Along the same lines as the Morton thread... Are pattern sheers worth the investment? If so how many of you pros use them? How much do they remove? Can I get along with out them and still have a nice fit with out alot of growth?????? Suzan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 07:51:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:17:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Apologies Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:40:27 +0000 Message-ID: <199807301527.LAA13843@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk Hi, all. I was just reading over some of my posts here during the past few days and I seem to be awfully grouchy and condescending. It must be the heat. Or I'm really turning into an old curmudgeon. Probably the latter. Sorry. I'll try to do better than that. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 09:06:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:30:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: LuvArtGlas@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: To buy OR not to buy Pattern sheers Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:22:48 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul30.72248.0> References: <<1998Jul30.1346.0>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Never use them, I cut directly on the light box, with the pattern under the glass. It is only a problem when it is very dark glass, with no light coming through. Then I just cut out that piece with regular scissors, and trace around it with contrasting paint or pen. Lee Boe Rain-boe's Creations LuvArtGlas@aol.com wrote: > > Along the same lines as the Morton thread... > > Are pattern sheers worth the investment? > If so how many of you pros use them? > How much do they remove? > Can I get along with out them and still have a nice > fit with out alot of growth?????? > > Suzan > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 09:38:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:05:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: bc.sympatico.ca!tuka From: tuka@bc.sympatico.ca To: glass@bungi.com, Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: To buy OR not to buy Pattern sheers Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:40:38 +0000 Message-ID: <199807301436.HAA15015@mail1.bctel.ca> Precedence: bulk > Along the same lines as the Morton thread... > > Are pattern sheers worth the investment? > If so how many of you pros use them? > How much do they remove? > Can I get along with out them and still have a nice > fit with out alot of growth?????? > I don't use them and haven't had any problems with "growth" Shiela ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 10:01:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:11:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!LuvArtGlas From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: To buy OR not to buy Pattern sheers Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:09:16 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul30.16916.0> Precedence: bulk Does anyone have a pattern for a light box? Just out of curiousity.... how were patterns transfered before electricity... Holding up to window? Of course clear glass wasnt always available.... Suzan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 11:20:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:53:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: To buy OR not to buy Pattern sheers Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:52:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul30.95216.0> Precedence: bulk I think lots of pros use English cutting alot of the time, but on certain patterns (for example, intricate florals) we do = trace and cut a pattern with pattern shears. It's a pain in the *, but makes for a better fit in the long run. There are shears for lead work and shears for copper foil and they each cut out a different size kerf; buy the one that is appropriate for the work you do. = I will add a testimonial here: The James EasyCut shears are much more comfortable and efficient than the traditional pattern shears (save this post - such praise for new gadgets is few and far between!) Since they're new, have no = idea how long they'll last. And they're relatively cheap, so even if you don't use them often, it's worth the cost. = Remember, the more pieces of glass you have in your window, the more challenges you'll have with shrinkage or growth. If your building a large window (especially with lots of curved pieces) with hundreds of pieces = of glass, do yourself a favor and save time in the long run by cutting a pattern and spending some extra effort cutting your glass accurately. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 11:45:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:54:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: morton safety break Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:53:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul30.9533.0> Precedence: bulk Okay, really dumb question from = two pros. What is a cutting bar? We use a 48 inch metal ruler for most of our longer straight cuts - as a = rule, we don't have longer than 48 inch cuts. Okay, so what the heck is a cutting bar???!! Best regards, Dani Greer (who is going to take a close look at the Morton system next glass trip so she knows what all the hoopla is about!) ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 11:53:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:54:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: All Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Running pliers Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:52:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul30.95241.0> Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: INTERNET:MollysGlass@sprintmail.com, INTERNET:MollysGlass@sprintmai= l.com TO: "Michael J. Greer", GreerStudios DATE: 7/30/98 11:29 AM RE: Re: Running pliers Sender: MollysGlass@sprintmail.com Received: from crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net (crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net [= 209.178.63.7]) by hil-img-5.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.12) with ESMTP id LAA06875 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:29:13 -0400 (EDT)= Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ts-002txkillP13.dialsprint.net [168.19= 1.130.48]) by crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28317 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:29:10 -0700 (PDT)= Message-ID: <35C08EDF.1FDA2B35@sprintmail.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:18:56 -0500 From: Molly Keys Reply-To: MollysGlass@sprintmail.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael J. Greer" Subject: Re: Running pliers References: <1998Jul29.162128.0> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dani, I have some old gray running pliers that I love. I buy this stuff called "Dip It" (it's red) and i dip my pliers in this making sure I mark the center for accurate breaking. This seems to work for me. I used to get it from a catalog that sold things for wood working. But I have since seen it in Wal-Mart, so you might check there or more than likely Home Depot, Lowe's one of the big chain stores probably carries this. Hope it works for you, Molly Dani Greer wrote: > Only problem is it wears out the pads fast, > wonder if I can buy replacements for those. > > = > Greer Gallery & Studios > http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ =3D > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 12:14:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:57:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: csgrs6k4.uwaterloo.ca!dmg From: "Daniel M. German" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: Tiffany in The Metropolitan Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 17:34:23 -0400 Message-ID: <199807292134.RAA00221@violeta.uwaterloo.ca> Precedence: bulk I found this today... In the Globe and Mail, "Travel" Section. July 29, 1998. "Tiffany Touch" "In another celebration of the 150th anniversary of the birth of Louis Comfort Tiffany, New York's Metropolitan Museum of Art has opened an exhibition that brings some 150 works together for the first time to display the full range of his achievements. The display, running through Jan. 31, beings with his earliest work as a painter and extends to lamps and chandeliers, leaded-glass windows, objects in glass, wood and bronze, enamel-work, pottery, furniture, jewelry and textiles." -- Daniel M. German "A first-rate laboratory is one in which mediocre scientists can produce Patrick Maynard Stuart Blackett ->outstanding work" http://csgwww.uwaterloo.ca/~dmg/home.html dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 13:37:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:46:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: LuvArtGlas@aol.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: To buy OR not to buy Pattern sheers Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:29:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1998Jul30.42946.0> References: <<1998Jul30.1346.0>> Precedence: bulk Whether to buy pattern shears or not seems to be another option for many. For me I consider pattern shears a must. It saves time and provides a certain amount of assurance that my pieces will fit better. One can use two xacto blades, cut twice around the pattern, or cut using a light box; my personal preference is using pattern shears. I also use them in teaching. If pattern shears become "grabby" I use an old piece of candle and rub over the three blades, this seems to help. When students come in for basic stained glass, I give them a list of tools, equipment, and supplies that will be needed for each of four lessons. I asked them to wait before buying anything until we have discussed each item. At the Base where I teach we have finally collected tools and equipment for up to eight students. As we go through our lessons, I show tools and equipment and alternatives. Whether the student buys or not is an individual decision, most buy their own tools including the Mika pattern shears. These shears come with interchangeable blades for either copper foil or lead came. Peggy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 13:59:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:20:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: indiana.edu!dfdavis From: donald f davis To: BOB DUCHESNEAU Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Morton video Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:20:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1998Jul30.10208.0> References: <<199807292330.TAA16968@mime3.prodigy.com>> Precedence: bulk Well my morton stuff is in a box in the corner..... It seems for me I don't cut alot of pieces of geometric shape. I don't know why they couldn't have put on an angle guage instead of the colored dot stuff... Don..... On Wed, 29 Jul 1998, BOB DUCHESNEAU wrote: > >>I have watched the Morton video and still don't know how to use the > darn > thing!!! Does anyone else have a problem understanding their > directions???? > Maybe its a left brain thing. Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks. > Kathi<< > > I have the video and have read the printed directions and fully agree > that Morton could have done a far better job. > > When using the directions, try to seperate out those that apply to > the small and large work surface. Most work surfaces can be purchased > with the detent dots already marked and so that helps. If you use a > thick cutter like tha Toyo you will find the work shop already set up > for it. If you use a thin cutter like the simple Fletcher then you > will need the adjustment instructions. > > Even trying to explain this is a trial. Just hang in there and don't > let them confuse you with more than you need to know. > > On another news group this was a subject of much discussion. I think > Morton said they would look into simpler directions. Don't hold your > breath. bob > > ____ > Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 > *Thanks, America.* > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 14:21:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:33:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: infinet.com!glasscat From: Carolyn Noel To: "Michael J. Greer" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Running pliers Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 00:56:02 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul27.20562.0> References: <<1998Jul29.162128.0>> Organization: The Stained Glass Place Precedence: bulk Hi Dani: Yes, there are replacement pads for running pliers. I sold my last set a couple of weeks ago, but want to order more soon. I believe Studio Design (Rainbow Art Glass) carries them. If you want, when I get some in, I'll send a set to you. (They aren't that expensive.) Carolyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 14:30:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:35:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: infinet.com!glasscat From: Carolyn Noel To: BOB DUCHESNEAU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: cats Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 00:34:54 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul27.203454.0> References: <<199807280400.AAA14040@mime3.prodigy.com>> Organization: The Stained Glass Place Precedence: bulk I know what you mean about cats drawing attention. I have customers who stop in just to say hi to Hobson, and see the rest of the "crew". They'll even make a special trip to bring their spouse or friends to see the little characters. (36 in all!) And I agree....I can't keep cat items in stock....from panels to bevel kits! Would love to see a really nice pattern for a cat lampshade. Saw a finished one once with a cat lying amongst "greenery", but have never located a pattern. Carolyn ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 14:42:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:03:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: wcnet.net!fibers From: fibers@wcnet.net (fibers) To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: shopping trip Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:05:09 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul30.1159.0> Precedence: bulk Well, the deed is done. I have read and considered every post requarding what to buy. I came home with a ring saw and Inland wet/dry diamond band saw with a metal cutting blade. The Morton System including the safety break and both size cutting boards, new grinder head 3/4 & 1/4, cutting oil, flux , lots of bevels, and a came bender. Also brass and lead came. I wanted one every piece of glass in the whole warehouse. Sure had a tough time deciding on which clear textures and a few pieces of color. Needless to say, I left more than $500.00 there, infact it came to over a grand. Now to sit down and read and understand all the instruction for the tools before I plug in anything. I'll keep you posted on how wise I was. Nelda ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 15:32:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:50:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!WhispyBlu From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Running pliers Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 17:46:59 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul30.214659.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 7/30/98 1:54:47 PM Central Daylight Time, GreerStudios@compuserve.com writes: << I have some old gray running pliers that I love. I buy this stuff called "Dip It" (it's red) and i dip my pliers >> Hi Molly! What exactly does "Dip It" do for the running pliers or for accurate breaking? Lu Ann ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 15:50:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:09:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Romajoco From: To: fibers@wcnet.net, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: shopping trip Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:05:56 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul30.22556.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-07-30 17:49:18 EDT, fibers@wcnet.net writes: << I left more than $500.00 there, infact it came to over a grand. >> No matter whether you buy retail or wholesale....it you love stained glass....you will always leave a bunch of money behind. Have done it plenty of times and will do it in the future. Whenever I see a pretty piece of glass....I just have to have it. It is like quilters and their fabric. However, I wish the glass was as easy to store as fabric is. Margie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 18:14:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 17:25:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: shopping trip Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 20:30:11 +0000 Message-ID: <199807310217.WAA16661@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk d will do it in the future. > > Whenever I see a pretty piece of glass....I just have to have it. It is like > quilters and their fabric. However, I wish the glass was as easy to store as > fabric is. Quite so, Margie. My wife's an avid weaver and we have more wool around here than you can shake a stick at. No matter how much there is, though, there's more of it being produced every year and she's gotta have some of it, more of it. On the other hand, I have an enormous collection of very handsome sweaters. Some of it gets knit up into those. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 18:32:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 17:26:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: morton safety break Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 20:30:11 +0000 Message-ID: <199807310217.WAA16655@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Albert....I have to disagree with your view point...If you cut good on > Homosote board you can cut just as good on the Morton System...it has > nothing to do with how good you cut..It keeps the realllllyy small pieces of > glass off your cutting area.. That's okay, Walter. No problem a'tall that you have a different viewpoint. But my point was not that someone can cut just as well on a Morton System as on the workbench covered with Homosote, but that some people have been given the impression that without a Morton System they wouldn't be able to cut at all. My comment was that a Morton System isn't *necessary. (And it isn't.) But if you have learned to cut in the traditional way, the MS might be a helpful adjunct and extra tool. Sure. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 18:47:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:15:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Catalogs, etc. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:06:50 +0000 Message-ID: <199807310110.CAA18746@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Dear Astarzia ( & other Catalog seekers) For a real impressive on-line comprehensive tools catalogue, you can do worse than visit the web-site of Hames Hetley & Son in London, UK They are the largest and most prestigeous stained glass suppliers in UK. Yes, I know they are in UK, but their catalogue is quite detailed, it also has a "beginners section" and a glass section and many other features. URL is http://www.hetleys.co.uk.html They even have a list of their distributors, where... you will be pleased to find my namesake ( with a ZZZed) in Bournemouth). It's a couple of months ago, since I last visited their web-page and there might now even be more additions Hope this helpful for descriptions, definitions and pictures of various tools. Good Luck Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK > Astarzia@aol.com wrote: > > > > Hello again! > > > > I am looking for catalogs (paper or on line) to look at to get > > an idea of what tools, pattern books, etc are out there. > > > > If you have a good catalog could you please post the phone > > number so that I could order one for myself....or post the > > email address. > > > > Btw, I live in the states. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 18:49:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 17:51:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: yahoo.com!tginevra From: Teri Ginevra To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: 3-D mosaic Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 17:49:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1998Jul30.104927.0> Precedence: bulk Hi All, I am a newbie at stained glass. I have never done mosaic work. I was in a store that had 3-D floating candle holders using mosaic approach. Basically, the clear glass was covered with stained glass, all in triangular shapes. I thought they were just beautiful. I look through books on mosaics. They were too technical but more importantly, they did not discuss using mosaics with 3-D objects. I would like to try to make these and would appreciate any input on how one goes about doing. Remeber I have absolutely no experience with mosaics. Thanks, Teri == Teri Ginevra@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 19:10:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 17:52:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: wcnet.net!fibers From: fibers@wcnet.net (fibers) To: "glass@ bungie.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: pattern shears Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 19:29:33 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul30.142933.0> Precedence: bulk How about a lesson in how to use these? . Every time I try, I end up tearing the pattern because the little 'center' pieces get hung in the shears. Is there a trick I just haven't discovered. Nelda PS: My ring saw is wonderful!!. I've only cut a couple of pieces but it is lots of fun. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 19:57:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 19:08:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: To buy OR not to buy Pattern sheers Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:06:50 +0000 Message-ID: <199807310110.CAA18743@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hi Dani et al, I agree that most "practitioners" Over Here use the English Method ( as it's known). I bought a pattern shear.... oooh... some 18-20 years ago, Have never since used them... not even for "intricate florals". The shears are around somewhere in my "teaching kit" to show students what they look like and to try out. Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Dani wrote: > I think lots of pros use English cutting > alot of the time, but on certain patterns > (for example, intricate florals) we do = > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 20:20:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 19:08:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Sort of Non Glass Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:06:50 +0000 Message-ID: <199807310110.CAA18731@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Poor Boo-Boo Paws!!! I have broken a shoulder blade, a hand and often break my head, but never a leg. In theatrical circles in Germany, it's supposed to mean luck. Now is JUST the right time to do all those administrative tasks that you have been putting off for so long; get your accounts sorted out; get your mailing-lists properly on your computer data-bank, get your marketing, advertising, promotional programmes into gear; design & make your promotional, hand-out, colour leaflets off the ground; get the shows & addresses on your data-bank; pay the dreaded bills; face the tax-man; plan new glass designs; get drawing; As they say in Germany: "Hals und Beinbruch!!" (i.e. Good Luck!) Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Gold Paws, aka Boo-Boo Paws wrote: > Hope no one minds me posting this. > I am having glass withdrawal. > Instead of breaking glass last Thursday night, I broke my leg. > Now I am going crazy because I can't get down to my workshop. > My Rosebush lamp awaits me. > I am looking at all my catalogs and ready to order things that look > good. > I really don't need anything else but--- > Anyone have this kind of problem before? > If so what type of glass work did you do to keep your sanity?? > > Thanks for listening ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 20:29:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 19:26:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: ComCAT.COM!suzy From: "suzy@comcat.com" To: "Michael J. Greer" , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: Re: morton safety break Date: Thu, 30 Jul 98 21:59:21 -0400 Message-ID: <199807310202.WAA21111@uz.ComCAT.COM> Precedence: bulk Dani wrote: > >Okay, so what the heck is a cutting >bar???!! It's a long strip of metal about the width of a ruler that can be secured top and bottom, at a right angle to the bottom ruler which hooks into the board, therefore assuring a perfect 90 degree cut. You could make an infinite number of these 90 degree cuts (say you're bordering a piece with a 1-1/2 inch border. With this tool you can cut many strips all the same width.) There's a system of dots on the Morton board which allow you to swing that cutter bar to the right or left, at different degrees of arc, and secure it to the board so you can cut many pieces at the same angle. For instance, I made a large "star of Bethlehem" quilt pattern in glass. Each piece needed to be the exact same size, exact same angle. I used Waterglass so the grain had to be running the same way in each piece for the right effect. Without that system I would have been sunk. Suzanne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 20:53:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 19:39:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mpx.com.au!harlquin From: "Gerard" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: re pattern shears Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:44:03 +1000 Message-ID: <1998Jul31.20443.0> Precedence: bulk the alternative to pattern shears is to use a pair of razor blade taped together with a piece of cardboard of appropriate thickness between. then cut your pattern with it. NOTE: use enough masking tape around it to avoid cutting yourself. Harlequin www.surf.to/harlquin ^ /^\ . /\ "V" /__\ I O o //..\\ I . \].`[/ I /l\/j\ (]| . O /. ~~ ,\/I . \\L__j^\/I o \/--v} I o . | | I _________ | | I c(` ')o | l I \. ,/ _/j L l\_! _//^---^\\_ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 21:43:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 20:43:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Cost of teaching materials Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 02:06:50 +0000 Message-ID: <199807310110.CAA18737@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Thank you Albert, ...for the comforting comment. It made me feel less agitated about the situation. No, you have NOT become "grumpy", by the way... but some people have short memories and can't be bothered to check back on the facts of what exactly was discussed. As my old C.E.O. used to tell me "The Devil sits in the details".... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Albert wrote: > > Never mind. Even the Big Universities do that. Julie Sloan's class at > Columbia University is a case in point. Required minimum number of > students is hiked every year until now at 12 students it's cancelled, > the requirement being 15. It's one of the most popular because it > includes hard business approaches, as well as theoretical > conservation techniques, but ... never mind that. > > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 22:10:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 20:49:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, LuvArtGlas@aol.com Subject: Re: To buy OR not to buy Pattern sheers Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:42:23, -0500 Message-ID: <199807310342.XAA13948@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>Does anyone have a pattern for a light box? Just out of curiousity.... how were patterns transfered before electricity... Holding up to window? Of course clear glass wasnt always available.... Suzan<< My first light table was a 12" square of plate glass set in a hole I cut in my drawing board with a clip on light. Next I came by the (you guessed it) Morton light box made for the small work surface. A portable 20 watt florcesent is proscribed. I then built two large light tables that have a frosted tempered glass size of 26" X 78". The size is a function of the tempered glass that was being sold at a give away price due to being the wrong size for whatever it was intended. I use several 40 watt warm white florcesent tubes for light. It takes less light than one might suspect and I have disconnected several tubes. I have seen a drawing of an ancient light table that used a mirror that tilted to focus the rays of the sun onto the underside of a glass table. Suspect most light tables were so constructed until 1910 or so. Seems like this arrangement would provide a superior spectrum of light for viewing glass. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *Thanks, America.* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 22:50:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:37:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: To buy OR not to buy Pattern sheers Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:34:13 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul30.203413.0> Precedence: bulk Hmmmm.... might depend on just HOW intricate that floral is. I would bet money that Ken Phillips* cuts a pattern. But, I could be wrong. Remember, I'm the near-sighted = one and Michael wears bi-focals so English cutting can be a challenge on very complicated windows. *K.M. Phillips Studio Pittsburgh, Pa = (Do they have a web site?) Best regards, Dani Greer = Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 23:11:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 22:22:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: Beadnik2@webtv.net Subject: Re: More Tools...Mosaic Cutters Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 01:19:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul30.211930.0> References: <<1998Jul29.18309.0>> Precedence: bulk >This is another tool I use daily, because I frequently cut very small >pieces off skinny strips of glass. I recently noticed that one of the >wheels has started to "wiggle" very badly, making the tool difficult >to >use. There does not seem a slot for any type of screw driver. Does >anyone know what I can use (if anything) to tighten this up again? > >Thanks! Joan Joan, Although my mosaic nippers have a screw so that the wheels can be replaced, if yours are indeed different, there is still something that will probably work to tighten them up. You will need a hammer and something to use as an anvil. I have an old elevator weight that I use. Most vises have a flat surface that can be used as an anvil. A section of train rail will work too ........(or even an anvil can be used as an anvil). Well anyhow... Since you can't tighten up the pin holding the wheel in the traditional ways, you will have to hammer the pin head to flatten it out against the wheel, in effect shortening the pin that goes through the wheel while pressing the head down tight against it. Just lay one side of the pin that goes through the wheel on the anvil and firmly hammer the head of the pin on the other side. Do not overdo it or you might overtighten it. This technique works on scissors and pliers etc. Anything without a screw to tighten, or where the screw no longer turns. Hope this helps. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 23:29:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 22:08:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: teleport.com!weaver51 From: "Howard and Elaine Rubin" To: "Glass" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: morton cutting bar, etc. Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 22:09:02 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul30.1592.0> Precedence: bulk For repetitive cutting of straight lines on glass, (note: a trapezoid is comprised of straight lines) It cannot be beat. One can make a like fixture, use wood strips for the sides, a door sill molding (straight edge, back it rubber, a stripped inner tube secured with silicone rubber is fine) and secure it to the parallel strips with C clamps... Use another c clamp for a stop for the glass....fiddle with it to get hairline adjustments (yes, Martha a 1/64 of an inch will make a difference in 8 pieces) waste some glass and a lot of time adjusting it, or buy the RIGHT TOOL. The dots are ok if you are going to do pre-set sizes and angles which trapezoids ARE NOT....Once you get used to cutting with a straight edge, a suggestion is to use a cutter with a wide head so it will track better....the wide head is EXCEEDINGLY difficult to cut free hand with as you cannot see the wheel. I use Toyo cutters, OLD heavy, knurled and necked ones...brass knurling is worn smooth on them. enjoy, H weaver51@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~cbs/howard enmeshed in the internet trapped in the world wide web ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Thu Jul 30 23:36:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 22:12:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: abelink.com!rbaker From: Di Baker To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Pattern Shears Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:24:23 -0500 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Hi everyone! So I tried to use the pattern shears -- they don't make em left handed -- you know I really am beginning to hate having to reverse everything I touch at my age --so I came up with this little trick & it works just great! I took an old flux brush, cut off the bristles, hammered the end (non bristled end) really flat, then took to craft knife blades & taped them onto hammered end with duct tape. Viola! I use it like a pen & I had to adjust the width with some more duct tape in between the blades to get the right amount removed from my patterns -- but I really can cut a pattern out very quickly with this handy tool & it cost very little. And for lefties it doesn't care which hand you use. I can't believe that the rotary cutter people haven't come up with something just for us stained glass artists? Someone told me that Meridith Stained Glass has a tool just like mine -- I don't have a catalog. But heh mine was almost free! Happy cutting! Purrs, Di .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._ /\_/\ =(=^*^=)= Di Baker / ~ \ Rosebud Stained Glass ( | | ) ~^ ^~( "The Fab 5" Bogie, Chanel, Sarah, Torns, JB Cagney *_ http://www.islandnet.com/~jbrooks/di1.htm .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 01:37:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:41:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: hotmail.com!marycooper From: "Mary Cooper" To: glass@bungi.com, alewis@vgernet.net Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Apologies Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:40:57 PDT Message-ID: <1998Jul30.154057.0> Precedence: bulk Albert Says: >>>>>>Hi, all. >I was just reading over some of my posts here during the past few >days and I seem to be awfully grouchy and condescending. It must be >the heat. Or I'm really turning into an old curmudgeon. Probably the >latter. > >Sorry. I'll try to do better than that.<<<<<< Rather, I find you extremely knowledgeable and appriciate your matter-of-fact approach. I look forward to your posts, Albert. Keep 'em coming! ;) Mary ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 04:18:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 03:20:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Romajoco From: To: toby@northlights.co.uk, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: To buy OR not to buy Pattern sheers Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 06:15:06 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul31.10156.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-07-30 23:00:20 EDT, toby@northlights.co.uk writes: << agree that most "practitioners" Over Here use the English Method ( as it's known). >> What is the English Method? Margie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 04:31:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 03:31:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Romajoco From: To: harlquin@mpx.com.au, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: re pattern shears Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 06:19:34 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul31.101934.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-07-31 00:06:16 EDT, harlquin@mpx.com.au writes: << the alternative to pattern shears is to use a pair of razor blade taped together with a piece of cardboard of appropriate thickness between. then cut your pattern with it. NOTE: use enough masking tape around it to avoid cutting yourself. >> That still sounds dangerous. Margie ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 04:51:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 03:51:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Box Hinges Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 06:49:39 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul31.104939.0> Precedence: bulk Bob and Bungi Guys, The light bulb just went off-----got it! You place tubes (hinges) down the sides of the box as well as on the lid. Unique idea and one I have never before seen. That idea, along with making it easier to clean the lid, would also come in mighty handy for repairs too. Good tip on making a box opening tab also! Will have to try that one out. Thanks! Lenore >don't understand how you remove the box lid without bending the rods that extend into the tubes down the sides. >>I solder about 2 inches of tube vertically at each back corner. I also solder tube to a little shorter than the length of the back of the lid. >>Another secret, place the tinned lid flat on the soldering bench. At the very middle of the front edge melt about one inch of solder. Now slowly pull the soldering iron away from the lid. A nice box opening tab is formed. Bob ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 05:10:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 04:20:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: memach.com!lcbell From: Linda Campbell To: "glass@bungi.com" , "'Di Baker'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Pattern Shears Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 07:21:09 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul31.3219.0> Precedence: bulk Good Idea, but I have a suggestion to take it one further. Don Doak (the = kalidascope maker) in his video makes a lot of his own tools. One that = he made, he used the blades from ladies disposable razors. Or you could = use two of those snap off utility knife blades and just break off to = sharpen. I find craft knife blades and Exacto blades just too dull for a = lot of paper/mylar cutting. Linda I took an old flux brush, cut off the bristles, hammered the end (non bristled end) really flat, then took to craft knife blades & taped them onto hammered end with duct tape. Viola! I use it like a pen & I had to adjust the width with some more duct tape in between the blades to get = the right amount removed from my patterns -- but I really can cut a pattern = out very quickly with this handy tool & it cost very little. And for lefties = it doesn't care which hand you use. I can't believe that the rotary cutter people haven't come up with something just for us stained glass artists? ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 05:18:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 04:27:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Yegnim From: To: GreerStudios@compuserve.com, glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Running pliers Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 07:24:19 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul31.112419.0> Precedence: bulk Dani and Bungies, Be careful when/if you buy replacement pads for your running pliers. They come in different sizes and I just purchased the wrong size. They work alright, but the pads keep slipping off as they are a few mm too big for the pliers. Lenore ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 05:31:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 04:35:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Lubee2 From: To: dmg@csg.uwaterloo.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Tiffany in The Metropolitan Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 07:28:40 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul31.112840.0> Precedence: bulk If you can't make it to the Metropolitan, the Morse Gallery in the Orlando, FL area (Winter Park FL to be exact).......may be just the stop for you next time you travel this way...They have a wonderful collection of Tiffany's work, and it is year around..For anyone who hasn't been since they built their new building they will be pleased, and they are expanding now. Lots of work by Tiffany from his early days to later days..You get to see pieces from Tiffanys private residence too. The price has been a couple bucks. Sharon ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 05:49:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 04:59:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: stainedglass.co.uk!studio From: "studio@stainedglass.co.uk" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Re: 3-D mosaic Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:58:35 +0100 Message-ID: <1998Jul31.135835.0> Precedence: bulk I came across a UK site for mosaicers recently which as far as I remember had links to a couple of pages with very clear instructions for mosaicing a 3-D candle shelter. I didnt bookmark those pages, but the site was at http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~asm/pages/moslinks.htm At 17:49 30/07/98 -0700, you wrote: >Hi All, > >I am a newbie at stained glass. I have never done mosaic work. I was >in a store that had 3-D floating candle holders using mosaic approach. >Basically, the clear glass was covered with stained glass, all in >triangular shapes. I thought they were just beautiful. I look through >books on mosaics. They were too technical but more importantly, they >did not discuss using mosaics with 3-D objects. > >I would like to try to make these and would appreciate any input on >how one goes about doing. Remeber I have absolutely no experience with >mosaics. > >Thanks, > >Teri > > > >== > >Teri Ginevra@yahoo.com >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > >---- >For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com >To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com >Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > Elizabeth Law (Bournemouth Stained Glass) http://www.stainedglass.co.uk ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 06:20:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 05:35:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Catalogs, etc. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:30:10 +0000 Message-ID: <199807311233.NAA28738@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Hi Lu-Ann et al, I tried it again this morning and found if you left out the .html it worked perfectly ok. So try again on http://www.hetleys.co.uk Good Luck Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK > In a message dated 7/30/98 8:49:18 PM Central Daylight Time, > toby@northlights.co.uk writes: > > << http://www.hetleys.co.uk.html >> > > The only response I get to this is "Unknown Host". Did this happen to anyone > else or did it work? > > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 06:52:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 05:59:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: erols.com!nancyclayb From: Nancy Bean To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Mailing List Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 07:44:36 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul31.04436.0> Organization: Daltile Precedence: bulk Please add me to the general mailing list. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 07:15:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 06:15:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: InfoAve.Net!ctombro From: Carol Tombro To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: mosaic site Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 09:05:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul31.5536.0> Organization: Home Precedence: bulk Elizabeth Thanks for the wonderful site re mosaics. I wasn't looking to get into mosaics, but just thought I'd check out the site. Great links there and I didn't realize the type of work that was being done. It's a definite must see site. Carol ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 07:26:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 06:33:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: post.queensu.ca!seguinr From: "Rachelle Seguin" To: "Bungi Glass" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: pattern shears Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 09:25:35 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul31.52535.0> Precedence: bulk Hello, I have been lurking on the list for some time now and have gained some very valuable information about working with glass. I am fairly new at stained glass, but love doing it. I feel strongly enough about pattern shears to comment on them. I have found that the shears for copper foil work are a pain. Not only is it hard not to tear the little piece in between sometimes, but the two projects I have made using the shears have left too large a gap between my peices once I'm at the soldering stage. After the first time I had used them when I had been doing glass on my own, I told my instructor of my problem. She said she never uses them, never recommends them but she does recommend the lead shears for lead came work and for stepping stones. Stubbornly I went ahead and used them to my dismay. Any project I have just cut apart with regular scissors has been fine. I think it depends a lot on how you cut. I cut very tightly to the line and always grind, so my pieces fit just fine without cutting out that little strip. Rachelle Seguin ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 08:00:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 06:58:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mercury.net!johnnyc From: Johnny West To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Subscribe Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 09:54:57 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul31.55457.0> Precedence: bulk Please place me back on the list,,,,,,I'm back. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 09:01:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 07:56:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: morton cutting bar, etc. Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:54:36 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul31.145436.0> Precedence: bulk My suggestion with the morton cutting board, bar and stops is to glance over the instructions first. Don't try to learn all the different uses at the same time. Then when you will be using using the system in a certain way you can go to that part of the instruction. If you try to memorize it all at the same time it is a little confusing. When its time to make trapazoids, use that page alone, when you want to make repetetive cuts use that page. After a while you will know right away how to set up without going to the instructions. You can even do one angle cut by itself, say you have a trapazoid you can lay the pattern on the board, set your angle and then cut. If you have not yet bought a morton board and are considering one I also suggest first getting the large one then later if you feel the need get a small board. deb In a message dated 98-07-31 02:30:35 EDT, you write: > (yes, > Martha a 1/64 of an inch will make a difference in 8 pieces) waste some > glass and a lot of time adjusting it, or buy the RIGHT TOOL. > > The dots are ok if you are going to do pre-set sizes and angles which > trapezoids ARE NOT... ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 09:01:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 07:56:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!Ensembles From: "Christie A. Wood" To: Bungi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: 3-D mosaic Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:53:29 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul31.65329.0> Precedence: bulk Message text written by Teri Ginevra >I look through books on mosaics. They were too technical but more importantly, they did not discuss using mosaics with 3-D objects. I would like to try to make these and would appreciate any input on how one goes about doing. Remeber I have absolutely no experience with mosaics.< Hi Teri. I do 3-D mosaics all the time. I've done them on flat surfaces= , concave, and convex surfaces. The key is finding a good glue that will set up quickly enough to allow you to move on to the next part of the mosaic, without the glass falling off. The glue I prefer is GE Silic= on II. I make sure to get the clear version made for use in bathrooms, since most of my 3-D mosaic items are indended for outdoor use and must stand up to the weather. The GE Silicon II glue is clear, bonds slick surface (i.e. glass) to slick surface, or slick-to-porus. Basically, you draw your pattern on the surface to be mosaiced. Then glue (GE Silicon II) the glass to the surface. After that has cured= (read the label) you can fill in the gaps with grout. I use a non-sanded= grout which I purchase in powdered form. This allows me to mix up a batch on demand, and not waste grout. It also allows me to color the grout, but I don't often do this. Apply the grout with an old brush,= rather than your hands, since the glass edges are sharp, sharp, sharp! As the grout dries, wipe off the excess with a damp sponge. After the grout is dry and the whole mosaic is hard as a rock, you can remove any sharp edges still left with a file. I then seal the whole item using= Thompson Water Sealant. Let me know if you have any more questions. Christie A. Wood Art Glass Ensembles ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 09:18:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 07:30:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!DMR74 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Running pliers dip it Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:24:53 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul31.142453.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-07-30 18:36:34 EDT, you write: > What exactly does "Dip It" do for the running pliers or for accurate > breaking? > "Dip-It" is sold in the tool department, many different manufacterers make it so it may not be under the same name in the store you go to. The usual purpose for it is to coat the handles of your tools, usually pliers, but it makes perfect sense to dip your glass breakers in it. What it is is a thick plastic coating, you can dip as little or as much of the tool you want (well I wouldn't dip the hinge part ;) ) It used to come in only one color now though you can get in in many different colors. deb ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 09:18:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:03:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: slonet.org!edupjohn From: "Peggy W. Johnsen" To: Albert Lewis Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Morton System Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 07:56:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1998Jul31.05658.0> References: <<199807310217.WAA16655@vger.vgernet.net>> Precedence: bulk Just to echo what Albert said about the MS being an adjunct piece of equipment, I agree. I neglected to tell you that I did not introduce the MS to my beginning students and when I asked my advanced students whether they thought a beginner should begin using the MS they agreed they should learn to cut traditionally first. Peggy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 09:19:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 07:44:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Box Hinges Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:31:21 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul31.63121.0> References: <<1998Jul31.104939.0>> Precedence: bulk Yegnim@aol.com wrote: > > Bob and Bungi Guys, > The light bulb just went off-----got it! You place tubes (hinges) down the > sides of the box as well as on the lid. Unique idea and one I have never > before seen. That idea, along with making it easier to clean the lid, would > also come in mighty handy for repairs too. > > Good tip on making a box opening tab also! Will have to try that one out. > Thanks! > > Lenore > > >don't understand how you remove the box lid without bending the rods that > extend into the tubes down the sides. > >>I solder about 2 inches of tube vertically at each back corner. I also > solder tube to a little shorter than the length of the back of the lid. > >>Another secret, place the tinned lid flat on the soldering bench. At the > very middle of the front edge melt about one inch of solder. Now slowly pull > the soldering iron away from the lid. A nice box opening tab is formed. Bob > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass i must have lost the first post about this. but another type of hinging method is to use a door hinge approach. where you get the outer tube, and cut it into thirds. the 3 sections should not be even, the ends should be around an inch long or so. then you attach the middle section to the box, and the outer ends to the lid (with the center pin holding everything in place. now if you had to remove the lid, you can knock out the center pin. however this type of hinge is'nt as strong as others. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 09:37:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:16:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!PDRUSS From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: pattern shears Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:55:52 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul31.145552.0> Precedence: bulk In a message dated 98-07-31 10:27:53 EDT, you write: << I feel strongly enough about pattern shears to comment on them. I have found that the shears for copper foil work are a pain. Not only is it hard not to tear the little piece in between sometimes, but the two projects I have made using the shears have left too large a gap between my peices once I'm at the soldering stage. >> I'm glad I'm not the only one this happens too. I thought there was something wrong with me. Bye bye, pattern shears. Dianne ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 11:30:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:59:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Science proves glass doesn't flow. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:58:06 +0000 Message-ID: <199807311951.PAA28774@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk Hi, all. Okay, it's official. Despite the fact that popular myth has it that glass flows downward and, for that reason, old windows are thicker at the bottom, the May 30 issue of "Science News" has the results of a study in the May 1998 issue of the "American Journal of Physics." In part, the report in Science News says, "Even germanium oxide glass, which flows more easily than other types, would take 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years to sag, Zanotto calculates. Medieval stained glass contains impurities that could lower the viscosity and speed the flow, but even a significant reduction wouldn't alter the conclusion, he remarks, since the age of the universe is only 10,000,000,000 years." Want more information, so you can confound your friends at cocktail parties and backyard barbeques? It's at http://www.sciencenews.org/sn_arc98/5_30_98/fob3.htm Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 12:15:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:10:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: erols.com!nancyclayb From: Nancy Bean To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Framing Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:47:10 -0700 Message-ID: <1998Jul31.54710.0> Organization: Daltile Precedence: bulk I have made 5 panels to far. I want to give one of them as a wedding present but am not sure the best framing to use. I know of the speical cut wooden frames for glass that you cut to fit (but I'm not too talented that way). What about just a plain old picture frame (or something else)? Suggestions appreciated. Thanks Nancy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 12:41:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:52:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: To buy OR not to buy Pattern sheers Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:48:33 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul31.104833.0> Precedence: bulk And, if you don't have a light box, you could always break down = and trace a pattern using carbon paper. Your glass supplier should sell large sheets of carbon paper. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 12:47:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:24:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: alewis@vgernet.net, glass@bungi.com Subject: Science proves glass doesn't flow. Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:21:27, -0500 Message-ID: <199807311921.PAA07542@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk Well how do you explain the thicker glass at the bottom border of many ancient windows? Easy. One can also find thicker glass at the sides of windows where the glass would seem to have flowed outward. Sometimes the glass seems to have flowed upward at the top of the window. Seems that the old timers did as we often do and cut their borders from the edges of sheets of glass. The thicker glass often found at the edge of a sheet is often more intense in color and more suitable for borders. Old timers rarely could afford to waste any glass and used most of every sheet of hard won glass. Never-the-less, when one sees the bottom edge of a window that is thicker and a guide even tells how time has caused the glass to flow, the subject is up for debate. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *Thanks, America.* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 13:08:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:25:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel Abedi" To: "Bungi Group" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Pattern with a rainbow in it Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 02:14:05 +0800 Message-ID: <1998Aug1.10145.0> Precedence: bulk Hi All, I am looking for a smallish panel pattern. It has to be any scene (landscape prefered) with a very prominent rainbow. I want to make a panel that will serve as my trade mark. To reflect the studio name Rainbow Stained Glass. Since it is going to appear on the letterheads, cards etc, it should not be too detailed. Does anyone know of any such patterns that might fit the bill? Even from any commercial site? http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Atrium/2543/ Shakeel Abedi 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Johor Malaysia Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 shakeel@tm.net.my ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 13:14:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:25:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel Abedi" To: "Bungi Group" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: That $%#!*? copper wire. Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 01:50:37 +0800 Message-ID: <1998Aug1.95037.0> Precedence: bulk Hi All Was Wilde who said it? "Practice makes a man perfect. And wrong practice makes him perfectly wrong. And that is my suffering. I am not rich enough to enroll myself in a Stained Glass course in US, UK or some far off place. And am too much in love with it not to care. Some times, the minor simple chores, that masters like Elisabeth, Mike, Albert might finish with a hand tied at the back (figuratively), I have to struggle. I have to sweat and swear. And worst, despair. Take the soldering of copper wire to the top and bottom rims of a lampshade, I never seem to get it right. And I sometimes try three or four times before I can even get it to the acceptable level. And I have to do that to every project. How true it is the saying that a book is not a teacher, it never can be. And all my learning has been from the books. And one or two videos. How is it done? The soldering of copper wire around a suncatcher or rims of a shade. How do you guys do it. ? Are there any techniques to it. http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Atrium/2543/ Shakeel Abedi 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Johor Malaysia Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 shakeel@tm.net.my ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 13:23:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:26:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: tm.net.my!shakeel From: "Shakeel Abedi" To: "Bungi Group" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: TOPIC - Reinforceing copper foil projects Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 01:54:07 +0800 Message-ID: <1998Aug1.9547.0> Precedence: bulk Could I suggest the topic. The methods, techniques, dos and don'ts and the art of reinforching with copper wire. http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Atrium/2543/ Shakeel Abedi 104, Jalan Mersing 86000 Kluang Johor Malaysia Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 shakeel@tm.net.my ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 13:33:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:27:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Science proves glass doesn't flow. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:32:18 +0000 Message-ID: <199807312120.RAA03368@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Seems that the old timers did as we often do and cut their borders > from the edges of sheets of glass. The thicker glass often found at > the edge of a sheet is often more intense in color and more suitable > for borders. Old timers rarely could afford to waste any glass and > used most of every sheet of hard won glass. Did you read the material on the links I mentioned? The old-timers didn't cut from sheets of glass, but from "crowns," spun roundels of glass which were thicker toward the center. > Never-the-less, when one sees the bottom edge of a window that is > thicker and a guide even tells how time has caused the glass to flow, > the subject is up for debate. But Bob! The scientists have now *ended the debate by doing the research! Egad, my friend. It's a myth that glass flows. It doesn't. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 13:42:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:09:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: glass@bungi.com, shakeel@tm.net.my Subject: Received your book. Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:07:10, -0500 Message-ID: <199807311907.PAA14542@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk Shakeel, Was beginning to wonder when the book would arrive. Sent air mail because the post office guy looked at me funny and said surface mail would take 6 to 8 weeks. You owe me nothing. As a disciple of Vincent Fox it is a real pleasure to spread his word. We consider his book to be the bible of beveling. Much of the book deals with heavy beveling equipment but the process is much the same for all beveling. I will be happy to try to answer any questions as I am sure Beveler4(Stan) will. My IBM computer is loaded with silicone chips from Malaysia. Thank you for doing such a great job on them. Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *Thanks, America.* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 13:42:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:36:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: pattern shears Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:36:03 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul31.19363.0> Precedence: bulk Nelda's enquiring mind wants to know: > How about a lesson in how to use these? . Every time I try, I > end up tearing the pattern because the little 'center' pieces > get hung in the shears. Is there a trick I just haven't > discovered. I had that problem a lot when my shears were brand-new. They were generally tight and *very* hard to use. Christie (who's had hers for years and they're nice and easy to use) suggested rubbing a candle over the blades to make them move past each other more easily. Worked like a charm, and gradually they've loosened up. Other than that, I find there's still a "best angle" to hold the scissors to the paper (with mine it's not perpendicular), and they work best on paper that's "not too thick, not too thin" and has a good "hard" finish to it (good laser-printer paper as opposed to newsprint, for instance). And of course, never use them on anything except patterns! The instructions that came with mine said to use a lot of short quick "bites" instead of long whole-blade ones; sometimes that helps. Also, the itty bitty paper strips will stick in the middle no matter what you do. There's no getting around stopping to clean them out. I do still get a few frayed edges occasionally. Usually what happens is one edge will end up crimped where it should have been cut, so it leaves a decent cutting line. When that happens, I just take my regular scissors and trim the edge carefully. So many tools, so many sneaky tricks....... Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 13:54:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:38:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!Witchdoc3 From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Bye-bye scutty patina Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:36:10 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul31.193610.0> Precedence: bulk .... or, why didn't I think of this before? It finally occurred to me to try the old chef's trick on that messed-up copper patina: SALT AND VINEGAR! (No, I really didn't think of it because the boss was eating salt and vinegar potato chips at work yesterday ) I figured, if it works on copper pots and pans, why not on copper patina? Shure 'nuff, it cleaned up beautifully! Then I rinsed and dried the piece real good and applied fresh patina (and plenty of polish immediately thereafter). Lookin' good! Thanks to all for the suggestions! Sparks ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 14:01:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:12:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vdot.net!shyguy From: Dinosaur Bob To: "glass@bungi.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Tiffany in The Metropolitan Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:28:36 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul31.62836.0> References: <<1998Jul31.112840.0>> Organization: Cox's Mower Service Precedence: bulk There was an article yesterday in the local paper ,and if anyone is going to be in NY, and plans to see this exhibit, there is another on Long Island(suburban community) at the same time. ALso the article lists 6 churches where there are some of his windows. If anybody plans on trying to make it, let me know, and if you are traveling, and need a place to crash, we may have room. You can see the text of the article (no photos) at: http://library.newsday.com/getdoc.cgi?id=107904340x0y10895&OIDS=1Q001D003&Form=RL&bp=no Or go to http://www.newday.com/ Click on the 'LEISURE' icon, then 'Current Editions' pick Thursday, and PART 2 Lubee2@aol.com wrote: > > If you can't make it to the Metropolitan, the Morse Gallery in the Orlando, > FL area (Winter Park FL to be exact).......may be just the stop for you next > time you travel this way...They have a wonderful collection of Tiffany's work, > and it is year around..For anyone who hasn't been since they built their new > building they will be pleased, and they are expanding now. Lots of work by > Tiffany from his early days to later days..You get to see pieces from Tiffanys > private residence too. The price has been a couple bucks. > > Sharon > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass -- Adults are obsolete children Theodore Geisel ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 14:47:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:06:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mail2.nai.net!shad From: Family Account To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Framing Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:56:17 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul31.125617.0> References: <<1998Jul31.54710.0>> Precedence: bulk Chances are that if you've made the panels without any thought to the size, you probably won't find a picture frame to fit them (you'd have to decide if you like the look, if it would be suitable to hang in a window, etc.). You might want to solder some brass channel around the edges, or, if the edges are nice and neat, maybe some ball chain for different look. Nancy Bean wrote: > I have made 5 panels to far. I want to give one of them as a wedding > present but am not sure the best framing to use. I know of the speical > cut wooden frames for glass that you cut to fit (but I'm not too talented > that way). What about just a plain old picture frame (or something > else)? Suggestions appreciated. Thanks Nancy ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 15:12:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:15:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Science proves glass doesn't flow. Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:13:20 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul31.131320.0> Precedence: bulk Michael makes the suggestion that = perhaps the thicker glass ended up at the bottom of the windows by intent - with the thought that it might provide = greater strength to the windows havng thicker glass at the bottom. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 15:21:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:44:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: compuserve.com!GreerStudios From: "Michael J. Greer" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Pattern with a rainbow in it Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:59:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul31.125939.0> Precedence: bulk Shakeel- Why not design your own pattern and avoid any possibility of copyright infringement? A simple landscape or sunset, with rainbow would be a = good exercise in pattern drafting- which, by the way, is a a good = skill to develop NOW if you're planning on hanging out your own shingle. One of the skills that will guarantee you business and success is the ability to design original work - the better you are, the more of an edge you will have. Good luck. Best regards, Dani Greer Greer Gallery & Studios http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 15:42:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:47:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Shakeel Abedi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: That $%#!*? copper wire. Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:45:19 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul31.134519.0> References: <<1998Aug1.95037.0>> Precedence: bulk Shakeel Abedi wrote: > > Hi All > > Was Wilde who said it? "Practice makes a man perfect. And wrong practice > makes him perfectly wrong. > > And that is my suffering. I am not rich enough to enroll myself in a Stained > Glass course in US, UK or some far off place. And am too much in love with > it not to care. > > Some times, the minor simple chores, that masters like Elisabeth, Mike, > Albert might finish with a hand tied at the back (figuratively), I have to > struggle. I have to sweat and swear. And worst, despair. > > Take the soldering of copper wire to the top and bottom rims of a lampshade, > I never seem to get it right. And I sometimes try three or four times before > I can even get it to the acceptable level. > > And I have to do that to every project. > > How true it is the saying that a book is not a teacher, it never can be. And > all my learning has been from the books. And one or two videos. > > How is it done? The soldering of copper wire around a suncatcher or rims of > a shade. How do you guys do it. ? Are there any techniques to it. > > http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Atrium/2543/ > Shakeel Abedi > 104, Jalan Mersing > 86000 Kluang > Johor > Malaysia > Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 > shakeel@tm.net.my > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass well for small things like suncatchers, a thin wire is used, a bit fatter than thread. you first flux the edge of the project. then put the project on it's side, and tack your wire down somewhere, i usually start on an inside seam. oh yeah, apply some flux on the wire too (and the wire should be shiny, not coroded). then press the wire down with a finger along the path of the piece, tacking it every 1/2" or so. when it's completly around, reflux. then with a quick motion - the iron goes down with a bit of solder and lifted again. this will create a small bead. this needs to be done all the way around the piece. it takes a long time, i never use wire around a suncatcher if i can prevent it. i either use nothing, but a little bit of solder to hide odd joints. or use 3/8" foil around the edge (wash the piece first). this will give you a easy strong edge, that has a nice finished lookm on both sides (providing you carefully lay a bead on the 'rim' of the edge), if that makes sense... for lamps, i may pre-tin some good sized wire, like small brazing rod. providing it's well hidden. the fastest and neatest way to tin thick wire is to: flux, solder, and heat up the wire with the iron. then using a wet paper towel or rag, wipe it down quickly, it will sizzle. this will provide a this shiny coat of solder on the wire. it may need to be repeated a few times to get the smoothest look. ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 15:49:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:52:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: nac.net!morn From: "M. Savad" To: Shakeel Abedi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: TOPIC - Reinforceing copper foil projects Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:49:23 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul31.134923.0> References: <<1998Aug1.9547.0>> Precedence: bulk Shakeel Abedi wrote: > > Could I suggest the topic. > > The methods, techniques, dos and don'ts and the art of reinforching with > copper wire. > > http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Atrium/2543/ > Shakeel Abedi > 104, Jalan Mersing > 86000 Kluang > Johor > Malaysia > Tel: + 607-7722212 Fax +607-7733313 > shakeel@tm.net.my > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass let's see... for suncatchers, you'll want to hide the wire as well as you can. you'll want to trace the contours of the glass on the back, so you don't see a shadow on the front. or forget about using copper wire (though the cheapest), and use a restrip. you could probably make some from copper sheeting. or from the solder braid (used to remove solder). this kind of reinforcement is nearly invisible, though a little more expensive. and of course, you can try to design something that is naturally stronger. like a mini panel with a descent border (long sides). ---Mike Savad -- Mike's Stained Glass - Tips Tricks Photos http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141 6-16-98 New Pages Added: 44 New Stained Glass Links, 5 New Stained Glass Tip Pages ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 16:04:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:34:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!HILLHD1 From: To: alewis@vgernet.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: morton safety break Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:30:11 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul31.223011.0> Precedence: bulk Hello there! I also use homosote & like it I have cut & soldered on it. A few years ago our local pbs station had stained glass with Vicki Payne. She had one in one of her shows with measurements all marked out: different sized circles, squares ect . Have you ever seen anything like this pre marked? Hats off to the group for the great chat the last 2 months! Karlene ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 16:20:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:47:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Light Box Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:43:02 +0000 Message-ID: <199807312246.XAA06950@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Dear All, A year or so ago, I remember posting the most unscientific details - yet very effective result of the making of my own light box. I didn't make it, my husband did. 1. A metal sheet (scrounged from BBC rejects), measuring approx. 24 x 24" 2. A selection of old discarded floor boards, which he made into 8 sides of a box. Bottom 4 attached to metal sheet, top 4 to transparant sheet, hinged onto the bottom, so I could open it up and change the light, should any of them blow. Beautifully sanded and varnished!!!. The metal sheet was drilled into, fittings and connections for 5 fluorescent tubes attached, soldered and connected. 3. 5 fluorescent tubes acquired (again from BBC rejects). The whole shebang was connected up. 4. For the top of the lightbox, 3 sheets of different transparency perspex sheet were cut to size( More BBC rejects!), holes drilled for screws. I have a choice of opaque light, diffused light and clear light, by changing the perspex sheets through a few screws. Oh, I almost forgot! A rather fetching brass handle was added, so I could pick up and carry the beast!! Oila! Another handmade tool!! Cost? Only the cost of the screws..... Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK > And, if you don't have a light box, > you could always break down = > > and trace a pattern using carbon > paper. Your glass supplier should > sell large sheets of carbon paper. > > Best regards, > > Dani Greer > Greer Gallery & Studios > http://www.bungi.com/glass/igga/greer/ = > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass > > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 16:44:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:47:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Framing Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:43:02 +0000 Message-ID: <199807312246.XAA06947@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Mmmmm, Sort of depends how "important" the couple is....? An alternative; is to ask a local blacksmith to make something in cast metal or wrought iron. That really would be eye-catching and "special" and should not be too expensive (affordable EVEN here - Across the Pond...) EWlisabeth 'n Toby in UK > I have made 5 panels to far. I want to give one of them as a wedding > present but am not sure the best framing to use. I know of the speical > cut wooden frames for glass that you cut to fit (but I'm not too talented > that way). What about just a plain old picture frame (or something > else)? Suggestions appreciated. ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 16:55:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:48:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Science proves glass doesn't flow. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:43:02 +0000 Message-ID: <199807312246.XAA06953@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Bob, I'm not quite sure what it is, you are trying to say in your message. Am a bit confused here. There appears to be 3 separate issues that you have mixed up together here: 1. If glass sags/flows 2. How a sheet of glass is used 3. how a sheet of glass is made Albert addressed the often asked question whether glass sags with age (since it is a super-cooled liquid.) Item 1. ...And WHO am I to argue with the august Society of American Physicists!? You respond to one subject by bringing in another subject (2. How glass is used), with strange references to "how glass is made (Item 3)." 1. I don't want to insult "stained glassers" by repeating the fundamentals of what glass IS. 2.That "old handers" had to use every inch of glass available to them, you point out - quite correctly. But that has nothing to to with how the glass has "flowed", but rather how it was MADE - in the first place. 3. Albert points out that in olden days glass was "spun" i.e. twirling a bubble of glass on a rod manually and cutting one end open so that under centrifugal force, the bubble opened up to a large circular sheet . In the middle of the circular sheet would remain the thicker blob or knob, where the rod was attached (= Bulls Eye or bullion). This is probably the earliest form of how to make "sheets". In medevial times the technique known as "cylinder glass" was evolved; a blob of molten glass is collected on a blow-pipe and blown into a bubble. Both ends of the bubble are cut off, leaving a cylinder. This is then cut down on one side and flattened out to a sheet. In BOTH cases the sheets have an infinite variety of texture, THICKNESS and colours. The various "edges" in particular thickened up and rounded up. ....Just think about a handmade "deep-pan" pizza, where the edges are higher and rounded up!...... The glass - as such - doesn't "flow" anywhere, once it's been cut and assembled. Pure and simple economy dictated the Artist to use the glass as he found it, wherever he could; sideways, bottom, at the top... wherever. With the introduction of modern commercial sheet glass, glass is made mechanically by passing molten glass through rollers. The rollers can be textured and patterned. However, theTHICKNESS can be controlled to be totally uniform throughout (only the last 1/8th of an inch being gently rounded. (It's THAT edge of modern rolled glass that is always a total pain either to use or to get rid of :-< ). Then , of course, we have float-glass, but that is a different issue... "The Guide", in your example, is putting nothing up for "debate". He/she is only displaying a sad ignorance about HOW glass is or was made. You and I - of course - know better..... Take care now! Elisabeth 'n Toby in UK Bob wrote: > Well how do you explain the thicker glass at the bottom border of > many ancient windows? Easy. One can also find thicker glass at the > sides of windows where the glass would seem to have flowed outward. > Sometimes the glass seems to have flowed upward at the top of the > window. > > Seems that the old timers did as we often do and cut their borders > from the edges of sheets of glass. The thicker glass often found at > the edge of a sheet is often more intense in color and more suitable > for borders. Old timers rarely could afford to waste any glass and > used most of every sheet of hard won glass. > > Never-the-less, when one sees the bottom edge of a window that is > thicker and a guide even tells how time has caused the glass to flow, > the subject is up for debate. > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 17:02:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:49:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Science proves glass doesn't flow. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:55:07 +0000 Message-ID: <199808010043.UAA13076@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > I do wish you would refrain from choosing to misread my posts. :-) Oh, I didn't intend to. I'll go back and re-read it. Umm. Umm. Umm. Doh. I must've misunderstood you; I thought you were saying that despite anything any old scientist might say based on his research, you were sticking with the idea that glass flows, resulting in panes thicker toward the bottom. My biff. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 17:09:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:50:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: vgernet.net!alewis From: "Albert Lewis" To: Henry Halem Subject: Re: IGGA Online News Memo Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:55:07 +0000 Message-ID: <199808010043.UAA13079@vger.vgernet.net> Precedence: bulk > Many years ago Nick Labino explained it in simpler terms to me and I > parphrase here: "If the windows in Colonial home actually had "sagged" then > by all rights the glass found in Egytian Tombs should be puddles." How's > that for a visual. > Henry A pretty good one, actually. Thanks for that, Henry. Albert ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 17:14:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:06:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!CncptThnkr From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: rainbow Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:03:21 EDT Message-ID: <1998Jul31.23321.0> Precedence: bulk Remember Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon"? A rainbow not created by rain but rather by a prism. It can be replicated in glass using a white stream of glass "entering" a triangular bevel and "exiting" as a multi colored rainbow. A black background completes the illusion. I have been reading you guys with interest for a week or so, Personally grinder not grozer, regret buying pattern shears, keep glass stored behind, under, on top and next to every available surface in the house and wish I had room to work. Currently have to make due with the top of the washer and dryer (or the dining room table when no one is looking). But I will survive............ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 17:26:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:37:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: pop3.nildram.co.uk!glass From: "Toby" To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: That $%#!*? copper wire. Summary: Authenticated sender is Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 00:32:46 +0000 Message-ID: <199807312336.AAA07432@saturn.nildram.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Aaahh, Shakeel, I can see your "gritted teeth" from Over Here!! I like spirit!!! MMmm... it DOES sound like an Oscar Wilde quote! Now then, as to your problem. Let me instantly add in HASTE, that I am NOT a copper-foil addict and there may be a rush of other and better ideas from others (who are). First of all, it helps if the surface onto which you want to apply wire AND solder is upright near enogh to 90 degrees. Make yourself a clamp/jig/contraption to hold your piece for you (Howard is the expert - I'm told- on "holding contraptions" if you are stuck. Look at a school's chemistry test-tube clamps/holders over Bunsen burners for inspiration. Secondly, What EXACTLY is the problem?? Do you feel you need 6 hands?? Can't you get the wire on straight?? Can't you get the wire "snug"?? Does the solder just "run off"?? Can't you get the solder to stick? Can't you get the solder to cover and disguise the wire? Have you really identified where and why you need the wire in the first place?? (You mention the TOP of the lampshape... do you REALLY need a wire there?? After all, you are supposed to solder the cap onto the top... why therefore the extra wire there??) How BIG is the lampshade?? (to warrant the frustrating amount of wires?? Can the amount be reduced??) Are you cleaning the work sufficiently?? We're all listening. Steam all gone now?? :-> Let's have a better description of your lamp, the size, what you are using and what your problems are. By the way, I have found that a common problem with soldering wire to edges here, Across the Pond is, that people can't make the solder "stick". When I tell them to rub down the wire with wirewool, their frustrated faces (more often than not) break out into a happy grin. Humid air and sea-locked, salt atmosphere requires more cleaning of your "metals" (that includes a rubbing down of your solder!!)). In Malasyia you are likely to suffer similar conditions as here in UK... but warmer (sigh!) More often than not, the solutions to frustrating problems are fundamental, silly, simple ones.... and- yes - you are right... the blessed textbooks and videos never tell you about these. So, come on, my friend,... let's have it!! WITHOUT steam.... P.S. I agree with Dani, that you should try and make/design your OWN rainbow, for all the reasons that she mentioned - as well as that any logo you design- however imperfect it may look to yourself - it will nevertheless reflect YOUR orginilatity, your personality and your uniqueness. Graphic and software images can NEVER achieve that. My 2 cents.... Elisabeth 'n (attentive) Toby in UK Shakeel wrote: > Was Wilde who said it? "Practice makes a man perfect. And wrong practice > makes him perfectly wrong. > > And that is my suffering. I am not rich enough to enroll myself in a Stained > Glass course in US, UK or some far off place. And am too much in love with > it not to care. > > Some times, the minor simple chores, that masters like Elisabeth, Mike, > Albert might finish with a hand tied at the back (figuratively), I have to > struggle. I have to sweat and swear. And worst, despair. > > Take the soldering of copper wire to the top and bottom rims of a lampshade, > I never seem to get it right. And I sometimes try three or four times before > I can even get it to the acceptable level. > > And I have to do that to every project. > > How true it is the saying that a book is not a teacher, it never can be. And > all my learning has been from the books. And one or two videos. > > How is it done? The soldering of copper wire around a suncatcher or rims of > a shade. How do you guys do it. ? Are there any techniques to it. > > ---- As my grandmother said "...there is only nobility of mind" North Lights Stained Glass - homepage http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/kris/northlights/index.htm ---- ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 17:27:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:20:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: alewis@vgernet.net, glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Science proves glass doesn't flow. Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:24:35, -0500 Message-ID: <199807312224.SAA20750@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>Did you read the material on the links I mentioned? The old-timers didn't cut from sheets of glass, but from "crowns," spun roundels of glass which were thicker toward the center.<< Crowns, when used, were cut into nine pieces. Two vertical and two horizontal cuts were made on the round crown. This yielded a centerpiece often called a bullseye and sometimes used as a decorative piece by itself. Also four sheets of the most usable glass that were a square with one rounded side and four right triangles with rounded bottoms. The four rather square sheets were the most usable. >>> Never-the-less, when one sees the bottom edge of a window that is > thicker and a guide even tells how time has caused the glass to flow, > the subject is up for debate. But Bob! The scientists have now *ended the debate by doing the research! Egad, my friend. It's a myth that glass flows. It doesn't. Albert<< I do wish you would refrain from choosing to misread my posts. :-) Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *Thanks, America.* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 17:51:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:40:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mpx.com.au!harlquin From: "Gerard" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Soldering problem Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 10:31:11 +1000 Message-ID: <1998Aug1.203111.0> Precedence: bulk I have a very old project that i tried to finish. But the solder is so oxydized that it's about impossible to do. Any *efficient* way to remove the oxyde (without scrubbing) ? Harlequin www.surf.to/harlquin ^ /^\ . /\ "V" /__\ I O o //..\\ I . \].`[/ I /l\/j\ (]| . O /. ~~ ,\/I . \\L__j^\/I o \/--v} I o . | | I _________ | | I c(` ')o | l I \. ,/ _/j L l\_! _//^---^\\_ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 18:08:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:26:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mpx.com.au!harlquin From: "Gerard" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: re Mosaic Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 10:22:03 +1000 Message-ID: <1998Aug1.20223.0> Precedence: bulk I had a look at that very good mosaic site. I liked the pictures. They also say " The tesserae that compose the works are pieces of colored mirror. Normally, we think of mirrors as silvered pieces of clear glass in which we can see a reflection. However when sheets of brightly colored, irregularly surfaced glass are silvered, the effect is different. The tesserae glow. The range of hues and variety of surface variegation are limited only by the glass available. " would anybody have ANY information about how to silver your own mirrors. I have still a few pieces of gold mirror made from Desag pale yellow antique. It's very effective. Harlequin www.surf.to/harlquin ^ /^\ . /\ "V" /__\ I O o //..\\ I . \].`[/ I /l\/j\ (]| . O /. ~~ ,\/I . \\L__j^\/I o \/--v} I o . | | I _________ | | I c(` ')o | l I \. ,/ _/j L l\_! _//^---^\\_ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 18:22:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:46:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: mpx.com.au!harlquin From: "Gerard" To: Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: re: Light box Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 10:37:46 +1000 Message-ID: <1998Aug1.203746.0> Precedence: bulk I have an old metal frame that used to be a table (without top) then i found a glass sliding door and laid it on top of the frame. then a fluorescent neon tube is hanging by a couple of chains under this contraption. A couple of sulphurised paper (?? is this the name) are taped under the glass to diffuse the light. Et voila ! the cheapest, largest cutting/light table you'll ever see. Harlequin www.surf.to/harlquin ^ /^\ . /\ "V" /__\ I O o //..\\ I . \].`[/ I /l\/j\ (]| . O /. ~~ ,\/I . \\L__j^\/I o \/--v} I o . | | I _________ | | I c(` ')o | l I \. ,/ _/j L l\_! _//^---^\\_ ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 18:35:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:51:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: prodigy.com!YWAH36A From: YWAH36A@prodigy.com ( BOB DUCHESNEAU) To: alewis@vgernet.net, glass@bungi.com Subject: Re: Science proves glass doesn't flow. Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:48:47, -0500 Message-ID: <199808010048.UAA19256@mime3.prodigy.com> Precedence: bulk >>My biff. Albert<< No problem. Its been hot today, Bob ____ Bob Duchesneau Mountain Meadow Stained Glass, Escondido, CA, 92026 *Thanks, America.* ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 19:21:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:46:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: aol.com!CWWSLW From: To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: Framing Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 21:43:43 EDT Message-ID: <1998Aug1.14343.0> Precedence: bulk I work in a custom frame shop. You can frames mad in ANY size. I have used some of the plain wood mouldings to frame some of my pieces. To hold them in, I use glaziers points. However, this wouldn't work for large panels. Susan ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 20:22:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:07:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: netaxs.com!maruca From: maruca@netaxs.com To: glass@bungi.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: PHL side trip! Re: Tiffany in The Metropolitan (fwd) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:06:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1998Jul31.1960.0> Precedence: bulk The news reported Philadelphians breathing a collective sigh of relief earlier this week. That was when we learned that our Tiffany mosaic, The Dream Garden would not be purchased by some casino operator and spirited away to Las Vegas. The mayor was reported to be examing ways to declare this a local treasure, one that could never be taken away. The Dream Garden may be viewed during regular business hours. It is located in the lobby of the old Curtis Publishing building on 6th Street, just north of Walnut, in the historic section of Philadelphia. Now back to you Daniel, for a heads-up on the magnificent Tiffany screen in the Palacio de las Bellas Artes in Mexico City! Mary ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 20:58:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:37:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: Gerard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Soldering problem Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:14:41 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul31.191441.0> References: <<1998Aug1.203111.0>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk Only way I have found is to flux liberally, and re-solder the whole thing. Hope it is not a big project. On the ones I've re-done this way, then clean very well, immediately, and patina and wax., they come out fine. Even over time. The flux and heat from the re-do must take care of the oxidation. Lee Gerard wrote: > > I have a very old project that i tried to finish. But the solder is so > oxydized that it's about impossible to do. > Any *efficient* way to remove the oxyde (without scrubbing) ? > Harlequin > www.surf.to/harlquin > ^ > /^\ . > /\ "V" > /__\ I O o > //..\\ I . > \].`[/ I > /l\/j\ (]| . O > /. ~~ ,\/I . > \\L__j^\/I o > \/--v} I o . > | | I _________ > | | I c(` ')o > | l I \. ,/ > _/j L l\_! _//^---^\\_ > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 21:16:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:38:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: home.com!leestat7 From: leestat7 To: Gerard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: re Mosaic Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:11:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul31.19117.0> References: <<1998Aug1.20223.0>> Organization: @Home Network Precedence: bulk After looking at the Mirrored Mosaic, think I'll give it a try too. So----How do you silver the glass???? Anybody got any references, books, techniques to share?? Much appreciated if you do. Lee Boe Rain-Boe's Creations-= P.S. How do you attach a 'sig' line on the bottom of e=mails?? Maybe dumb question, but I don't know how.???? Gerard wrote: > > I had a look at that very good mosaic site. I liked the pictures. > They also say " The tesserae that compose the works are pieces of colored > mirror. Normally, we think of mirrors as silvered pieces of clear glass in > which we can see a reflection. However when sheets of brightly colored, > irregularly surfaced glass are silvered, the effect is different. The > tesserae glow. The range of hues and variety of surface variegation are > limited only by the glass available. " > would anybody have ANY information about how to silver your own mirrors. I > have still a few pieces of gold mirror made from Desag pale yellow antique. > It's very effective. > > Harlequin > www.surf.to/harlquin > ^ > /^\ . > /\ "V" > /__\ I O o > //..\\ I . > \].`[/ I > /l\/j\ (]| . O > /. ~~ ,\/I . > \\L__j^\/I o > \/--v} I o . > | | I _________ > | | I c(` ')o > | l I \. ,/ > _/j L l\_! _//^---^\\_ > > ---- > For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com > To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com > Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 21:26:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:48:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: juno.com!dodgestudio From: dodgestudio@juno.com To: Witchdoc3@aol.com Subject: Re: pattern shears Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:46:39 -0400 Message-ID: <1998Jul31.194639.0> References: <<1998Jul31.19363.0>> Precedence: bulk Not sure if anyone pointed this out. Along with the short snips of the pattern shears, it is important to work deep in the blade and feed the shears forward forcefully with each little snip. Gary Dodge Dodge Studio Designs http://www.dodgestudio.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 23:35:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 22:55:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: 3d Candle Shelter Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 00:54:43 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul31.195443.0> Precedence: bulk I saw a 3D small candle shelter recently. It had diamond shaped jewels in a mosaic pattern which peaked my interest. Upon closer examination I discovered the jewels were acrylic and glued on to a piece of clear glass. Don't know if the jewels would stand up to the heat of the candle. At first glance it was pretty, but after it was junk. Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Fri Jul 31 23:49:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 22:51:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Molly's Cat Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 00:49:18 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul31.194918.0> Precedence: bulk I had the pleasure of seeing Molly's cat project and the real thing. Both were works of art. I'm sure see hated to part with the SG, but alas that is way. Patrick Roses and Rainbows ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass From owner-glass Sat Aug 1 00:07:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by daver.bungi.com via smail with stdio id for rglass-42; Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:29:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.94 1997-Apr-22 #8 built 1997-Jun-19) X-Path: n-link.com!pkelly From: "Pat Kelly" To: "glass bungi line" Content-Type: text/plain; Subject: Goldpaws Boo-Boo Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 00:45:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1998Jul31.19458.0> Precedence: bulk Had my foot in a cast for weeks (usually its in my mouth), and was I ever boooooored. Diagnosis from DR Frued (AKA Patrick): My dear you suffer from an assortment of ailments beside your obvious lack of balance (one leg is temporarily heavier and whiter than the other side). My diagnosis is: Wissmatch Withdrawal Spectrum Separation BullsEye Breakdown Yeogehmey (sp) Yearning * and others I am too tired to mention (my couch has cats on it) Prognosis: In a few weeks your leg will get lighter and change back to the normal color. However, the stress of being torn apart from your art will last until the first inside cut goes awry and the profanity that always follows relieves the pent up emotions. Suggestions until you are cured: Take 2 aspirins and a gallon of cheap wine and in the morning the hangover will make you forget the pain in your leg. Don't try to waltz. Your partners life could be in danger and besides the cast won't match your dress. Although, you could mosaic it (Hmmmm, another topic of the week, casts of colors?) Snap off orders to your significant other .... that's always good for a laugh. Braid your cats tail. He/she won't like it but like all art its an aesthetic thing open to criticism. Collect and post Swedish jokes to the group (this will definitely get a rise out of you-know-who in the UK). I could go on but your time is up. Pay the receptionist on the way out. All donations go to the SGAA Fund for Lowering the Cost of Reference and Technical Manual (SGAAFLCRTM). Patrick Roses and Rainbows PS Get better quick, So much glass.... so little time. ---- For subscription changes, please mail to: glass-request@bungi.com To send to the list, please mail to: glass@bungi.com Archives available at http://www.bungi.com/glass